From west at tseinc.com Sun Jul 1 05:28:15 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: Message-ID: <000d01c10218$8a585540$7c8953d1@jay> Bob Shannon wrote... > > This is incorrect! > > > > The HP tape reader uses a HP tape reader board that is unique, it is NOT the HP > > 8 bit duplex register board. Bob is incorrect for the 2100 as well as the entire 21MX M/E/F (and HP1000) lines. He could very well be right on the 2114/5/6 cpu's though. The HP 2748B paper tape readers were connected to an HP2100 or HP21MX M/E/F system via the 8-bit duplex register board. No other interface was used, at least for sale in HP configurations. Matter of fact, if you bought the paper tape reader kit (the part # escapes my mind) which included the paper tape reader, the HOST interface board, cables, manuals, and diagnostic, there was only one interface you would ever get. The 8-bit duplex register. This was the HP designated interface for the 2748B. I can only assume Bob is referring to the older 2114 (not actually an HP machine other than the label), 2115, and 2116 machines which I'm not as familiar with. I have however, seen 2748B paper tape readers hooked up to a 2116 with an 8 bit duplex register so I know that to say in general terms that the HP tape reader board is unique and not the 8 bit duplex register board isn't accurate. But I can't speak from experience on the 2114 or 2115. Of course, the 2114/5/6 are NOT 2100 machines, and of course they're not 21MX M/E/F systems either. So, perhaps early 2114/5/6's had a modified paper tape reader and a unique interface at that time, but certainly not after the 2116. Jay West From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 00:37:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <1237.582T1550T2845531optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010701053706.39669.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > >--- Bill Pechter wrote: > >> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without > that > >> > quasi-SCSI chip. > > >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and > >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to > >get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have > >a map of which byte corresponds to which socket). > > That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets. > I'll see if I can sacrifice a Mac on the VAX/Supra altar, but I'm having a > hard time justifying the sacrifice of a working machine for a bare-bones > (piranha-eaten is a better description =) 0,9 VUP VAX. It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several that makes up a uVAX-2000. The MFM cable isn't impossible to construct - the hard part to find is the 60-pin IDC connector. The other end (hard disk and floppy) are standard PC components. At one point, I contemplated building a uVAX-2000 into a stripped PC chassis. I wanted enough room for two MFM disks, a floppy and the CPU. I got as far as mounting the uKA410 board into a clone of the original AT case. Never got it hooked up in its new home. After that, I aquired a BA123 and went back to playing with Qbus. Oh, and in reference to your earlier question about "easy", I have never seen a uVAX/VS-2000 without added RAM. Some have even been upgraded after the fact, leaving a surplus of 2Mb RAM cards. I do not know how common the KA410 was in Europe. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 00:53:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: VAXBI (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010701055331.78921.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > DEC licensed the patent to anyone who wanted for $100 a board, > and Emulex, Dilog, and others STILL made a profit on aftermarket > boards. DEC learned(?) from this and wouldn't license a later > bus (VAXBI?)... It was very difficult to get a VAXBI license. Software Results had to apply multiple times and it was only granted after the market made the VAXBI irrelevant (1989). I still have a pile of VAXBI COMBOARDs (68010 10Mhz, 2Mb DRAM, Z8530). If it weren't for MSCP, I'd consider attempting to convert one to SCSI with an 5380 - not high performance, but neither is the COMBOARD, but that's not a problem when all you are doing is pushing characters over a sync serial interface at 56Kb. > ....so Emulex and Dilog were limited to purchasing > the cheapest board DEC made, removing the bus interface chips, > and installing them on their own boards. and STILL made a > profit. Considering I've seen prices like $10K for a VAXBI SCSI card (new, supported disk _and_ tape), there was room for profit. The VAXBI interface chip was $350 from DEC, and at one point, you could buy 2Mb memory cards for the 8200 for $50. The most recent cards I've picked up were (2) 4Mb cards for $10 each, but that was more than 5 years ago. I just wish the KDB-50 wasn't so flakey - I have to reseat mine on a regular basis or the machine won't boot (VAX 8300). -ethan > > Regards, > Clint > > > Who knows? Only the patent office I suppose. It was a mass storage protocol > > > that DEC invented and some patent examiner said "Yup, this is good stuff." > > The Microprocessor was also patented but that patent has expired. Most of > > the emulators/clones on DEC gear do _not_ include MSCP support. Getting it > > is a challenge. Intel and Motorola have copyrights on their Microcode and > > patents and various aspects of their processors but as a whole they aren't. > > > I believe all of Intel's chipsets are patented in one form or another which > > > prevents non-licensees from building them. > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > > ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 01:02:44 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <002901c1010b$b0333ae0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > The old (1981-82) DAVONG hard drives for use with PC's came packaged together > with a WD 1100-series chipset based HDC that talked some protocol specific to > that device... I think I got one of those at Dayton a few years back (> 8)... It was sold to me as a SCSI enclosure, but a moment's inspection once I got home revealed that to be false. I might have the board around; I know I have the Davong enclosure somewhere - used it for a while with an ACB-4000 on my Amiga. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 01:04:56 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Zorro I vs Zorro II (was RE: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010629141443.01c9d570@pc> Message-ID: <20010701060456.94266.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > At 12:09 PM 6/29/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >I have personally seen a Zorro I expansion box. It was stolen from the > >Ohio State University Physics Demonstration Department... > > Wasn't the first made by Byte-by-Byte, quite early on? Perhaps. I remember Sculpt3D (got a couple of copies) and the joystick clock (there were also parallel-port clocks in that era). It sounds plausible, though. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 1 01:58:10 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > No way! You actually found a useful electrical COMPONENT at Fry's?!?!? > Wow last time I tried that (1K resistor) they didn't have them and the > clerk told me "nobody uses resistors anymore they are being > discontinued." :-) I couldn't tell if they mean Fry's was going to > stop carrying them or they believed that resistors were no longer > relevant to the engineering world. When dealing with a Fry's employee, always assume the worst :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Jul 1 06:07:25 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: OT Celebration Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. Cheers, chaps Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 1 08:10:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <20010701053706.39669.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2278.582T850T8504899optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> >--- Bill Pechter wrote: >> >> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without >> that >> >> > quasi-SCSI chip. >> >> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and >> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to >> >get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have >> >a map of which byte corresponds to which socket). >> >> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? >Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets. I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly useful. >> I'll see if I can sacrifice a Mac on the VAX/Supra altar, but I'm having a >> hard time justifying the sacrifice of a working machine for a bare-bones >> (piranha-eaten is a better description =) 0,9 VUP VAX. >It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several >that makes up a uVAX-2000. The MFM cable isn't impossible to construct - >the hard part to find is the 60-pin IDC connector. The other end (hard >disk and floppy) are standard PC components. Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I could scrounge together a hard drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable (assuming compatibility). Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the board, regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be added, like ethernet? >Oh, and in reference to your earlier question about "easy", I have never >seen a uVAX/VS-2000 without added RAM. Some have even been upgraded >after the fact, leaving a surplus of 2Mb RAM cards. I do not know >how common the KA410 was in Europe. Well, this was just a motherboard from a skip, so while upgrade cards might have been popular, so must the case, PSU, drives and cables have been. And all that is probably in a garbage dump somewhere now. =/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods From vonhagen at vonhagen.org Sun Jul 1 08:51:45 2001 From: vonhagen at vonhagen.org (William von Hagen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 Keyboard Needed In-Reply-To: <200106301309.IAA85706@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701094901.054c4820@209.95.107.208> I scored a Victor 9000 (a cool PC "almost-compatible") on eBay, but need a keyboard in order to do anything "useful" with it. Does anyone happen to have a spare? It uses an RJ45-like keyboard connector, and seems to feature a fair number of proprietary keys. Any help would, as always, be appreciated. Thanks! Bill From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 1 08:55:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's easy to fool oneself into believing the DAVONG controller should have either the WD-1000 (a 50-pin interface) or the SASI, but simple inspection indicates that DAVONG used signals on both even and odd numbered pins on their controller. I acquired mine in the hope that they'd stuck to the reference design that Western Digital put out with their WD1100 chipset, but they apparently didn't. I have a couple of the WD1100-based WD1000 controller boards in a version made by/for Televideo for their TS806 machines, of which I have a couple (not working at the moment, though they previously worked as spoolers in my earlier PC-system architecture) and was contemplating modifying the PLL and swapping the crystal, thereby making the board compatible with 8" HDD's. It just requires a crystal, a cap, an inductor, and a moderately complicated retuning of the varactor-based VCO on the board. The procedure is quite clearly outlined in one of the very early WD-1000 manuals I have. The road to hell, they say, is paved with good intentions ... That power supply and enclosure are somewhat odd. The box is completely sealed off at the front, as one might justify for a HDD, but since the thing has supplies capable of supporting it, I was once considering putting an Ampro Little board and a floppy in there with a HH HDD. The metal working discouraged me from it long enough to take it off the list of things to do. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 12:02 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The old (1981-82) DAVONG hard drives for use with PC's came packaged together > > with a WD 1100-series chipset based HDC that talked some protocol specific to > > that device... > > I think I got one of those at Dayton a few years back (> 8)... It was sold > to me as a SCSI enclosure, but a moment's inspection once I got home revealed > that to be false. I might have the board around; I know I have the Davong > enclosure somewhere - used it for a while with an ACB-4000 on my Amiga. > > -ethan > > > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jul 1 08:55:23 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 References: Message-ID: <3B3F2BCB.F306E8E2@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Will keeping them in an unheated garage cause much damage, > >or should I make an effort to get the units to the basement. > Well, my PDP-11/44 is kept in an unheated garage (though it does get heat > from the house) that can get plenty hot in the summer, and very cold in the > winter. Prior to my getting it, the /44 sat in Paxton's old Warehouse for > who knows how many years. I think cleanliness is of more importance than > wide temperature changes. Because of this I keep the /44 covered with old > sheets to try and keep most of the dirt out of it. Jerome Fine replies: Plenty hot in Ottawa in the summer can still be over 90 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer with VERY high humidity. But in winter, minus 40 degrees is not uncommon - humidity is probably not important (and Fahrenheit is not required since the same value applies to Centigrade as well). By the way, if you are running RT-11, one RK05 for the system files (about 5000 blocks) is usually enough and another RK05 drive can hold the data files - another 5000 blocks. I ran that way for many years in the early 1980s. Just keep each project (if you actually have any) on a separate data RK05 disc pack. An RL01 is much nicer for RT-11 at 10,000 blocks and the RL02 (uses the same Unibus controller) is wonderful at 20,000 blocks. I am currently running a simulated RL01 drive under the E11 emulator and it is only half full. Of course, for data drives I am "cheating" a bit since I have I have 3 * 32 MBytes RAM disks available while I do multiple assemblies and 2 * 256 MBytes of Sony SMO S501 magneto optical disk drives to make permanent copies of the files on the RAM disks when I decide it is time to test the programs. All the RAM disks and the Sony drives are under one MSCP DUX.SYS device driver that can reference up to 64 partitions in RT-11 or 2 Gbytes of disk space at one time. This is such a change from just 2 RK05 drives that I can hardly remember having just 10,000 blocks in total. However, the interesting part in RT-11 is that although it may be a bit inconvenient, it is still possible to write the same programs and execute mostly all the same software even on an 11/34 with just 128 KBytes (even if just half populated with memory) although perhaps just one program at a time. Yes, and one additional factor - SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. Did you receive any system software and if so do you know which version of the operating systems are available? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 1 10:01:25 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> I had thought someone actually wanted a DSDD 8 inch drive. NEC 1165's available.... From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 1 10:00:10 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <000d01c10218$8a585540$7c8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B3F3AF9.87FAF246@tiac.net> Jay West wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote... > > > This is incorrect! > > > > > > The HP tape reader uses a HP tape reader board that is unique, it is NOT > the HP > > > 8 bit duplex register board. > > Bob is incorrect for the 2100 as well as the entire 21MX M/E/F (and HP1000) > lines. He could very well be right on the 2114/5/6 cpu's though. "Incorrect" may have been a poor choice of words....however I have documentation that shows a HP2100 shipped by HP with the older reader interface board. In fact one of the reader boards I have was removed from a basket-case 2100 system. I wounder when HP switched over, and why? > The HP 2748B paper tape readers were connected to an HP2100 or HP21MX M/E/F > system via the 8-bit duplex register board. No other interface was used, at > least for sale in HP configurations. Matter of fact, if you bought the paper > tape reader kit (the part # escapes my mind) which included the paper tape > reader, the HOST interface board, cables, manuals, and diagnostic, there was > only one interface you would ever get. The 8-bit duplex register. This was > the HP designated interface for the 2748B. The documentation I have for the tape reader kit shows the older, reader specific board rather than the duplex reg. Hmmmm, what gives here? > I can only assume Bob is referring to the older 2114 (not actually an HP > machine other than the label), 2115, and 2116 machines which I'm not as > familiar with. I have however, seen 2748B paper tape readers hooked up to a > 2116 with an 8 bit duplex register so I know that to say in general terms > that the HP tape reader board is unique and not the 8 bit duplex register > board isn't accurate. But I can't speak from experience on the 2114 or 2115. > Of course, the 2114/5/6 are NOT 2100 machines, and of course they're not > 21MX M/E/F systems either. So, perhaps early 2114/5/6's had a modified paper > tape reader and a unique interface at that time, but certainly not after the > 2116. > > Jay West Umm, how is the 2114 not an HP machine? (The 2114 was developed by HP.) Your thinking of the 2116 perhaps, which was originally developed by a small firm that HP later absorbed? Also the 2116 was HP's first computer, not the 2114. The 2100 came after the 2114, and at least 1 2100A shipped using the older style interface board. My 2115 also came with the old-stype tape reader board, and that clearly came after the 2116. (the first computer HP actually designed was the 2115, simply a re-packaged 2116) My guess would be that HP decided to use the duplex board, and stop production of the reader-specific board to simplify their inventory. This means that some of the HP tape reader cables out there are wired for the original tape reader interface board, while others are wired for the duplex register. Using the wrong cable could cause problems. >From what info I have, it appears that the switch from the original Tape Reader I/F to the generic duplex register must have happened in or after 1970 or 1971. What is your definition of a '2100 machine'? 2114, 2115, and 2116 machines run HP 2100 software, and were the original processors used in HP2000 time share basic systems. They originated the HP board interface used all the way up to the MX and E series. The software on the HP2100 archive site is that which originally shipped with 2114 thru 2116 systems. If these classic machines are not 2100's, then what are they? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 10:01:20 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <2278.582T850T8504899optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010701150120.59207.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > >> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and > >> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface > >> > >> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? > > >Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets. > > I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single > mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly useful. I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken. > >It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several... > Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I could scrounge together a hard > drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable (assuming > compatibility). If you want to use it as VAXstation, yes, you need all of those. If you want to use it as a MicroVAX, you wouldn't need the mouse/keyboard/cable. > Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the board, > regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be > added, like ethernet? There is a default frame buffer. I have never used it so I don't know its resolution, scan-rate, etc. It is active when the jumper says to be a VAXstation, and not active when the jumper says to be a MicroVAX. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From vonhagen at vonhagen.org Sun Jul 1 10:08:56 2001 From: vonhagen at vonhagen.org (William von Hagen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: <200107011350.IAA94109@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701105901.03faad20@209.95.107.208> I recently picked up (literally) an IBM 5151 monitor for my original PC, but can't figure out how to open it up. This sounds silly, but what can I say. Could some kind soul help me with this? There are a variety of loose parts rattling around inside that I would like to put back in their original locations before applying power. Thanks! Bill From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Jul 1 10:30:55 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701105901.03faad20@209.95.107.208> References: <200107011350.IAA94109@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701112741.00a69350@mail.wincom.net> At 11:08 AM 01/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I recently picked up (literally) an IBM 5151 monitor for my original PC, >but can't figure out how to open it up. This sounds silly, but what can I >say. Could some kind soul help me with this? There are a variety of loose >parts rattling around inside that I would like to put back in their >original locations before applying power. > >Thanks! > > Bill There are a couple of plastic squares on the top, (on mine they are a deeper yellow,) and these will pry out giving access to a couple of screws. This is on an IBM monitor on an XT- I couldn't get at the back to check the part number. Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 10:37:28 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300135.f5U1ZXG20261@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010701153728.14343.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x > > > And if so what processors does it support? > > > > Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780... I think that's true. The 11/750 didn't come out for a couple of years, and that's the only other model that I would expect could do it (since its microcode is in ROM). Dunno what devices are supported by V1.0. > > ... and through > > V3 I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe > > this is probably true for early V4 releases). We got a MicroVAX-I when they were new ($10K!). It came with MicroVMS on an RD-52 (10Mb disk). AFAIK, that was the first VAX not in the 11/7xx line. > > Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is, not only does anyone have > > it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and > > about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets. I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage locker. There is a possibility that I know someone with the media kit, but it's been years since I talked to them. OTOH, I have no docs for any v2 or v3 versions of VMS, but I do have some distribution TU-58s for stuff in the range of 3.4 to 3.6. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jul 1 10:55:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> Message-ID: Hi Bob, >I had thought someone actually wanted a DSDD 8 inch drive. >NEC 1165's available.... That was me...I think I've got it covered though. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 1 11:13:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000d01c10248$cdbb7580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Those are the ones I mentioned, which have the 3-1/2" type power connector. They look like pretty decent drives, but, since they're not like the rest of my 8" drives, I gave the ones I had away. This was because they were not readily interchangeable with other drives, and that was because of the power connections. They might be a good choice for someone wishing to use them in a dedicated package. My applications generally involve 8" hard drives as well, and they use the same power connections as the FDD's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:01 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > I had thought someone actually wanted a DSDD 8 inch drive. > > NEC 1165's available.... > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 1 11:22:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001301c1024a$1849a6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The thing that might be interesting with NEC1165's would be to compare them to 3-1/2" drives. Though I'm not certain about it, the power might be compatible. If not, it just might be a mite risky to package the two drive types together since the power connectors are the same. These NEC people made a number of moves of that sort in the early '80's. They built a number of PC clones that were "almost" clones ... and you know where that led them ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > Hi Bob, > > >I had thought someone actually wanted a DSDD 8 inch drive. > >NEC 1165's available.... > > That was me...I think I've got it covered though. Thanks > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 1 12:13:04 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <20010701153728.14343.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 01, 2001 08:37:28 AM Message-ID: <200107011713.f61HD4b01213@narnia.int.dittman.net> > --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x > > > > And if so what processors does it support? > > > > > > Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780... > > I think that's true. The 11/750 didn't come out for a couple of years, > and that's the only other model that I would expect could do it (since > its microcode is in ROM). Dunno what devices are supported by V1.0. > > > > ... and through > > > V3 I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe > > > this is probably true for early V4 releases). > > We got a MicroVAX-I when they were new ($10K!). It came with MicroVMS on > an RD-52 (10Mb disk). AFAIK, that was the first VAX not in the 11/7xx line. > > > > Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is, not only does anyone have > > > it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and > > > about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets. > > I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage locker. > There is a possibility that I know someone with the media kit, but it's been > years since I talked to them. > > OTOH, I have no docs for any v2 or v3 versions of VMS, but I do have some > distribution TU-58s for stuff in the range of 3.4 to 3.6. Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Jul 1 12:26:38 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 References: <3B3F2BCB.F306E8E2@idirect.com> Message-ID: <001601c10252$fd54a000$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Fine" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 > >Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >Will keeping them in an unheated garage cause much > > >damage,or should I make an effort to get the units to the > > >basement. Well, my PDP-11/44 is kept in an unheated > > >garage (though it does get heat ... > > who knows how many years. I think cleanliness is of > >more importance than wide temperature changes. > > Because of this I keep the /44 covered with old > > sheets to try and keep most of the dirt out of it. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Plenty hot in Ottawa in the summer can still be over 90 > degrees Fahrenheit in the summer with VERY high humidity. > But in winter, minus 40 degrees is not uncommon - humidity > is probably not important (and Fahrenheit is not required > since the same value applies to Centigrade as well). My wife will not let them into the house, so if my pleading is in vain I may have to put it up for adoption in the fall, with the 2 as400/s. > Did you receive any system software and if so do you know > which version of the operating systems are available? There is one disk labelled TSX,LEX, the rest are unlabeled except for AECL 2200 BPI-12 AECL( Atomic Energy Canada Limited) is where they machines came from I believe. There are 2 other pack labelled RL01K-DC with TD2, and TD4 The paper tapes are labelled: DZM91-D-PB DZKMA-C1-PB DZKAQ-F-PB DFKTH-A-PB DFKAC-A-PB DFKAB-C-PB DFKAA-B1-PB DCMFA-D-PB DZDLA-F-PB DZDLA-F1-PB I didn't notice a paper tape reader in the pile, but there is a manual from a paper tape reader that gives the codes. There is also a Manual from HP - Seminar in Problem solving concepts for computer systems. and a bunch for a PDP 11/15. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 12:26:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <668.582T2250T336003optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 1, 1 00:33:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1087 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/94dcf18e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 12:31:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 30, 1 06:21:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1401 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/68ea7669/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 1 12:48:57 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Paging Brian Roth Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701104808.023a0070@209.185.79.193> Watch for the UPS delivery person on the 5th or so... --Chuck From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Jul 1 09:02:32 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <001601c10252$fd54a000$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20010701175851.KBUV2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Mike Kenzie" > To: > Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:26:38 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Snip! > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > Plenty hot in Ottawa in the summer can still be over 90 > > degrees Fahrenheit in the summer with VERY high humidity. > > But in winter, minus 40 degrees is not uncommon - > humidity > > is probably not important (and Fahrenheit is not > required > > since the same value applies to Centigrade as well). Confirmed, I was visiting Algonquin college last wednesday. Beauiful city all I can describe simply aside from that heat and humidity. So store them in ventilated, dry shed during summer off the cement. During Winter, keep them dry and minimumize the temp swings. Ditto here Kingston as well but very drab aside from that Tall Ships going on now and bunch of historic buildings. But Kingston is poor city to consider making your home with a job. The committe there is screwed so there were very little major developments. If I ever live in Ottawa for the Algonquin as a student, where is the best spots for old, cheap computer stuff especially Macs? Also what about electronics component stores to visit for parts? Also, I'm told that ottawa city has very few vacant rooming for rent and I also want to know where the "bad areas" is so I know where to avoid. The primary transportation is bus. Cheers, Wizard From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 1 13:03:30 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701110043.024a27a0@209.185.79.193> At 06:31 PM 7/1/01 +0100, Tony wrote: >Or, as in the UK, just about nobody does electronics any more :-( Unrelated to classiccmp perhaps, but one thing in the UK and the US that is rekindling some interest in electronics is BattleBots/Robotwars. These are basically high powered and armored R/C cars w/weapons that compete in televised events. Building one of these things requires that you learn a bit about electronics (and mechanics). There's hope for a few of the younger generation if they get inspired... --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 1 12:48:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: OT Celebration In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jul 1 13:47:56 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 References: <20010701175851.KBUV2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3B3F705C.56D67597@idirect.com> aaaaa >jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > If I ever live in Ottawa for the Algonquin as a student, where is the > best spots for old, cheap computer stuff especially Macs? Also what > about electronics component stores to visit for parts? Jerome Fine replies: I have not been back to Ottawa very often and there were no such stores when I lived there. I lived in Ottawa for about 18 months in 1967 when I started my third job. I moved there on New Year's day and by the end of the week the temperature had dropped to minus 40. Fortunately I had been warned and with a block heater, oil dipstick heater and car warmer, the old 1965 full size Chevy (they sure did make them big back then) started without a problem. The company had an old CDC 3500 (hey - back then it was new) with a wonderful operating system that allowed many users to edit their files on-line and then submit the files as batch jobs to be executed almost immediately depending on the queue length. Now this may seem like a very limited system, but in 1967, even interactive editing was brand new. And batch jobs were normally submitted via a card deck - yep - punched cards. My initial job was to help upgrade the file structure code from a linear search of over 3000 files to a hash search of 6000 files. I wrote some code to monitor how the upgrade was being used and sure enough I predicted a system crash about an hour before it occurred - the hash algorithm was not re-using vacated file descriptors - wonderful method, inadequate implementation and checking. Next I wrote a system job to use the primitive program that copied one file at a time from/to disk/tape. The super job read all the file headers and copied all the specified files from disk to tape and attached a backup number to each file. That was the nightly backup run. During the noon lull, a five minute job backed up all the changed or new files for the morning at the next higher backup level so that any new files could also be recovered without having to backup all the files. Hey - I was asked a question about all those old companies and I mentioned Snow White (no not the virus - IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs. I remembered six and want to check if these were the correct seven? Burroughs Control Data DEC Honeywell NCR Univac Wang I don't think Xerox was one at that point in time? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 1 12:53:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701110043.024a27a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Unrelated to classiccmp perhaps, but one thing in the UK and the US > that is rekindling some interest in electronics is > BattleBots/Robotwars. These are basically high powered and armored R/C > cars w/weapons that compete in televised events. Building one of these > things requires that you learn a bit about electronics (and > mechanics). There's hope for a few of the younger generation if they > get inspired... Well, it's not going to Moon, but I agree that it is definitely a positive and refreshing trend. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Jul 1 14:17:56 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Paging Brian Roth References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701104808.023a0070@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B3F7764.D094F5B1@heathers.stdio.com> Whats up....? Chuck McManis wrote: > Watch for the UPS delivery person on the 5th or so... > --Chuck From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 1 14:00:39 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701112741.00a69350@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: The 5151 is the original for the PC/XT line and the squares simply pop out and expose a screw. 25KV inside when powered (and as much when unplugged) so use caution. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Charles E. Fox -> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 10:31 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed -> -> -> At 11:08 AM 01/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: -> >I recently picked up (literally) an IBM 5151 monitor for my -> original PC, -> >but can't figure out how to open it up. This sounds silly, but -> what can I -> >say. Could some kind soul help me with this? There are a -> variety of loose -> >parts rattling around inside that I would like to put back in their -> >original locations before applying power. -> > -> >Thanks! -> > -> > Bill -> -> There are a couple of plastic squares on the top, (on mine they -> are a deeper yellow,) and these will pry out giving access to a -> couple of -> screws. This is on an IBM monitor on an XT- I couldn't get at -> the back to -> check the part number. -> -> Regards -> Charlie Fox -> Chas E. Fox Video Productions -> 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 -> foxvideo@wincom.net -> Check out: -> Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com -> From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jul 1 14:36:21 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: OT Celebration In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 1, 1 10:48:23 am" Message-ID: <200107011936.MAA07816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. > > Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. Sam, I have an infinite supply of Dr. Pepper, but I can't keep spitting it into this C128 when I read messages like this. It won't take much more of that. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain --------------------- From ljcst18+ at pitt.edu Sun Jul 1 14:34:32 2001 From: ljcst18+ at pitt.edu (Lucas J Cashdollar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm in the robotics club at my college and a guy there is making a robot for the robotwars/battlebot. Its uses a cutting blade of some sort for its weapon. The blade has a four inch diameter and is 3/4 inch thick and the cutting edge is carbide. Neat stuff On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > Unrelated to classiccmp perhaps, but one thing in the UK and the US > > that is rekindling some interest in electronics is > > BattleBots/Robotwars. These are basically high powered and armored R/C > > cars w/weapons that compete in televised events. Building one of these > > things requires that you learn a bit about electronics (and > > mechanics). There's hope for a few of the younger generation if they > > get inspired... > > Well, it's not going to Moon, but I agree that it is definitely a positive > and refreshing trend. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com Sun Jul 1 14:37:21 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <3B3F705C.56D67597@idirect.com> from Jerome Fine at "Jul 1, 2001 02:47:56 pm" Message-ID: <200107011937.f61JbLk05452@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> > Hey - I was asked a question about all those old companies and I mentioned > Snow White (no not the virus - IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs. I remembered six > and want to check if these were the correct seven? > Burroughs > Control Data > DEC > Honeywell > NCR > Univac > Wang BUNCH -- Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data, Honeywell(a.k.a. GE). RCA and DEC may have rounded out the pack. RCA unloaded it's Spectra line and Univac picked it up. DEC moved into Marlboro in to some areas that IIRC were RCA spots. RCA dumped computers at the time one of execs was in divorce procedings. A hurried income report showed no profit in the computer line (when they ACTUALLY made ground and PROFIT against IBM) (around 1970/71) and they dumped their mainframe computing push. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com Sun Jul 1 14:42:26 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <001601c10252$fd54a000$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from Mike Kenzie at "Jul 1, 2001 01:26:38 pm" Message-ID: <200107011942.f61JgQO05504@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> > There is one disk labelled TSX,LEX, the rest are unlabeled > except for AECL 2200 BPI-12 TSX-11 is multi-user time shared OS on top of RT11. > The paper tapes are labelled: > DZM91-D-PB - Sounds like bootstrap loader diag? > DZKMA-C1-PB - Memory mos? sdiag iirc > DZKAQ-F-PB - Memory diag (mos MK) iirc > DFKTH-A-PB - 11/34 cache? iirc > DFKAC-A-PB - 11/34 CPU Diag > DFKAB-C-PB - 11/34 CPU Diag > DFKAA-B1-PB - 11/34 cpu Diag -- main instruction set > DCMFA-D-PB - MF11? diag > DZDLA-F-PB - RL diag ? > DZDLA-F1-PB - RL Diag ? > I didn't notice a paper tape reader in the pile, but there > is a manual from a paper tape reader that gives the codes. > Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 1 15:17:56 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Paging Brian Roth In-Reply-To: <3B3F7764.D094F5B1@heathers.stdio.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701104808.023a0070@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701131736.026da310@209.185.79.193> At 03:17 PM 7/1/01 -0400, Brian wrote: >Whats up....? >Chuck McManis wrote: > > Watch for the UPS delivery person on the 5th or so... > > --Chuck 3800 parts From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 1 15:30:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <20010701153728.14343.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200106300135.f5U1ZXG20261@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage >locker. You have VMS V1.0 doc's?!?!?! Out of curiousity how big are they? That's something that would be very cool to get scanned in. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jul 1 15:37:36 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: The Seven Dwarfs References: <200107011937.f61JbLk05452@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3B3F8A10.65C1E9D3@aconit.org> Bill Pechter wrote: > > > Hey - I was asked a question about all those old companies and I mentioned > > Snow White (no not the virus - IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs. I remembered six > > and want to check if these were the correct seven? > > Burroughs > > Control Data > > DEC > > Honeywell > > NCR > > Univac > > Wang > > BUNCH -- Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data, Honeywell(a.k.a. GE). BUNCH came after the seven dwarfs. "Ranked according to each one's share of the dollar values of computer systems installed worldwide in 1967, the dwarfs were Sperry Rand, Control Data Corporation, Honeywell, RCA, NCR, General Electric and Burroughs" >From : The Computer Establishment by Katherine Davis Fishman, ISBN 0-06-011283-2 Sperry, of course was Univac, DEC had a small installed base (in dollar value) at that time. As mentioned, Honeywell bought the GE computer operations in 1970, and in 1971 RCA's were acquired by Sperry leaving the BUNCH. -- HBP From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 1 16:22:11 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: OT Celebration References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3B3F9483.97412AD2@internet1.net> You get to put away the boots, parkas, and snow shovels? I thought they were required year round? :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Charles E. Fox wrote: > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting ready to > celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks put away our > boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two of Canadian Club > or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in memory of our great > victory in the War of 1812. > > Cheers, chaps From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 12:59:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 Keyboard Needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701094901.054c4820@209.95.107.208> from "William von Hagen" at Jul 1, 1 09:51:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/49c7d950/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 15:52:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701105901.03faad20@209.95.107.208> from "William von Hagen" at Jul 1, 1 11:08:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1295 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/736d4034/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 16:17:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 1, 1 02:00:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/a41e81d3/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jul 1 16:49:21 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <3B3F705C.56D67597@idirect.com> Message-ID: I think GE and RCA belong on the list, I don't think Wang does. On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > aaaaa > >jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > If I ever live in Ottawa for the Algonquin as a student, where is the > > best spots for old, cheap computer stuff especially Macs? Also what > > about electronics component stores to visit for parts? > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have not been back to Ottawa very often and there were no such > stores when I lived there. > > I lived in Ottawa for about 18 months in 1967 when I started my third > job. I moved there on New Year's day and by the end of the week the > temperature had dropped to minus 40. Fortunately I had been warned > and with a block heater, oil dipstick heater and car warmer, the old 1965 > full size Chevy (they sure did make them big back then) started without > a problem. > > The company had an old CDC 3500 (hey - back then it was new) with > a wonderful operating system that allowed many users to edit their files > on-line and then submit the files as batch jobs to be executed almost > immediately depending on the queue length. > > Now this may seem like a very limited system, but in 1967, even interactive > editing was brand new. And batch jobs were normally submitted via a > card deck - yep - punched cards. > > My initial job was to help upgrade the file structure code from a linear search > of over 3000 files to a hash search of 6000 files. I wrote some code to monitor > how the upgrade was being used and sure enough I predicted a system crash > about an hour before it occurred - the hash algorithm was not re-using vacated > file descriptors - wonderful method, inadequate implementation and checking. > > Next I wrote a system job to use the primitive program that copied one file > at a time from/to disk/tape. The super job read all the file headers and copied > all the specified files from disk to tape and attached a backup number to each > file. That was the nightly backup run. During the noon lull, a five minute job > backed up all the changed or new files for the morning at the next higher backup > level so that any new files could also be recovered without having to backup all > the files. > > Hey - I was asked a question about all those old companies and I mentioned > Snow White (no not the virus - IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs. I remembered six > and want to check if these were the correct seven? > Burroughs > Control Data > DEC > Honeywell > NCR > Univac > Wang > > I don't think Xerox was one at that point in time? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Jul 1 16:55:20 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010701110043.024a27a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <002501c10278$875c2aa0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 2:03 PM Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers > At 06:31 PM 7/1/01 +0100, Tony wrote: > >Or, as in the UK, just about nobody does electronics any more :-( > > Unrelated to classiccmp perhaps, but one thing in the UK and the US that is > rekindling some interest in electronics is BattleBots/Robotwars. These are > basically high powered and armored R/C cars w/weapons that compete in > televised events. Building one of these things requires that you learn a > bit about electronics (and mechanics). There's hope for a few of the > younger generation if they get inspired... It would be nice if they spent more time with the ROBOT's instead of the announcers. Seems to be a common design that is winning most of the events. I think I saw someone on this list have their machine get bumped over the edge recently. I built a 4 motor LEGO robot this afternoon, I think I have to swap the gears for pulleys if it's going to push anything heavy without damaging itself. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 1 17:07:51 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: "Mike Kenzie" "Re: PDP 11/34" (Jul 1, 13:26) References: <3B3F2BCB.F306E8E2@idirect.com> <001601c10252$fd54a000$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <10107012307.ZM12698@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 1, 13:26, Mike Kenzie wrote: > The paper tapes are labelled: These are paper tape versions of XXDP+ diagnostics. There's some documentation on my web page about XXDP. Compaq still list the PDP-11 doc set: ZJADX-GZ PDP11 XXDP DOC. KIT $187.00 (By the way, does anyone have a copy of that? I'm curious to know how complete it is). > DZM91-D-PB Possibly a bootstrap loader or APT monitor program (for the diagnostics) > DZKMA-C1-PB MOS/Core diagnostic test, tests up to 124KW if you set 10000 in the switch register, otherwise tests 0-28KW > DZKAQ-F-PB Some kind of processor test (not processor-specific) or memory test (might be a core-specific test -- worst-case test patterns for core are different from the ones used in ZKMA) > DFKTH-A-PB 11/34 CPU test > DFKAC-A-PB 11/34 CPU test (part 3) > DFKAB-C-PB 11/34 CPU test (part 2) > DFKAA-B1-PB 11/34 CPU test, part 1 (main instructions) > DCMFA-D-PB MF11 diagnostic > DZDLA-F-PB DL11 serial line test (this might need a loopback plug) > DZDLA-F1-PB DL11 serial line test (same test, later revision, I think) Several of these tests change their behaviour slightly according to the contents of the switch register when you run them. I don't have the details for most of these tests (anybody got an XXDP microfiche set?), but taking ZKMA for example: bit 15 set = halt on error bit 14 set = loop in selected subtest (see bits 0-3) bit 13 set = don't print errors bit 12 set = enable memory management bit 11 set = enable parity testing (default is ignore parity bits) bit 10 set = halt after each sub-test bit 9 set = don't do program relocation (so it can't test all of memory) bit 8 set = test in blocks of 4K, and print the first failing bit in each block bit 7 set = enable "long galloping test" (takes a while :-)) bit 6 set = don't size the memory (normally the diagnostic tries to work out how much memory there is to test) bit 5 set = don't print "END PASS xx" (normally does this every time round the loop) bit 4 set = don't print anything bits 0 to 3 are used to select a single subtest. See bit 14. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Jul 1 17:41:54 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: The Seven Dwarfs In-Reply-To: <3B3F8A10.65C1E9D3@aconit.org> References: <200107011937.f61JbLk05452@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010701184114.00ae8c20@pop-server> At 10:37 PM 7/1/01 +0200, you wrote: >I remembered six and want to check if these were the correct seven? > > > Burroughs > > > Control Data > > > DEC > > > Honeywell > > > NCR > > > Univac > > > Wang No, one of them was RCA and Wang was not included. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 18:34:53 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: WTB: Atari Portfolio Message-ID: Anybody out there got an Atari Portfolio (in good condition) with manuals and 1 (or 2!) 64K memory cards they'd like to part with? If so, submit your offers off the list direct to me. Thank you. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. "Scout": Otrona Attache. ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jul 1 18:53:50 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: fun with Standalone Backup In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630205924.023664a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: If you have VMS ANAL/ERR or DECevent should tell of parity problems. Otherwise >>>SHOW MEMORY /FULL should tell of any totally bad pages if supported by your console. On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > On an unrelated note, I've got a Dataram MS650 board (MicroVAX III memory) > and when it is installed it takes a _longish_ time to past the > initialzation tests and standalone backup appears to hang when run. Has > anyone seen this? Is this perhaps a bad memory chip that is being > constantly repaired by the ECC logic... > > --Chuck > -- From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 1 20:39:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <20010701150120.59207.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1970.583T850T1594691optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and >> >> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface >> >> >> >> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? >> >> >Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets. >> >> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single >> mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly >> useful. >I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken. List, what do you say? >> >It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several... >> Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I could scrounge together a >> hard drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable >> (assuming compatibility). >If you want to use it as VAXstation, yes, you need all of those. If you >want to use it as a MicroVAX, you wouldn't need the mouse/keyboard/cable. But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on the D-subs for those annoying DEC modular plugs? And there's still the power question. >> Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the board, >> regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be >> added, like ethernet? >There is a default frame buffer. I have never used it so I don't know >its resolution, scan-rate, etc. It is active when the jumper says to be >a VAXstation, and not active when the jumper says to be a MicroVAX. It's a 1024?864, I think. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > I'll maybe do a giraffe/milk/fridge game for this year's CSSCGC. > That'd be good. Yes. Advanced Giraffe Refrigeration Simulator. All the thrills and 'spills' are here as you manoeuvre the milk and lure the lactophobic animal around a kitchen packed with hazards! ** Actual Spectrum screenshots! ** "It's TOTALLY AMAZING!!!" - David Darling Equin0x, comp.sys.sinclar From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 1 20:30:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <001301c1024a$1849a6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <725.583T900T1504881optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >The thing that might be interesting with NEC1165's would be to compare them >to >3-1/2" drives. Though I'm not certain about it, the power might be >compatible. If not, it just might be a mite risky to package the two drive >types together since the power connectors are the same. These NEC people >made a number of moves of that sort in the early '80's. They built a number >of PC clones that were "almost" clones ... and you know where that led them >... Are you referring to the PC98? At least that machine seemed more fun than the bog-standard PC. BTW, is the PC98 dead nowadays? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 1 20:35:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <725.583T900T1504881optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000901c10297$43dc1aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I wasn't specifically referring to a model, but to the general run of NEC PC-clones of the early-mid '80's. It seems to me that their story, overall, was that they were intentionally not compatible with the PC, thereby forcing the end-user to buy the software that NEC had to offer. That's what killed them. Later models were, presumably, closer to the "compatibility" mark, hence more generally useable. I never owned/used one of these jewels, but there was considerable chatter about them back then. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 7:30 PM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >The thing that might be interesting with NEC1165's would be to compare them > >to > >3-1/2" drives. Though I'm not certain about it, the power might be > >compatible. If not, it just might be a mite risky to package the two drive > >types together since the power connectors are the same. These NEC people > >made a number of moves of that sort in the early '80's. They built a number > >of PC clones that were "almost" clones ... and you know where that led them > >... > > Are you referring to the PC98? At least that machine seemed more fun than the > bog-standard PC. BTW, is the PC98 dead nowadays? > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish > prison." > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Jul 1 21:11:56 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Any Luck With Bull? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151287@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Hello, Hans... It's been a while since we chatted, and I was wondering if the health of your friend at Bull had improved such that you could once again considering discussing with him the liberation of the Multics source code (and who knows, maybe a bootstrap tape). It'll be a shame if we have to rebuild using the MIT archive, but if that's all we've got, well... Regards, -doug quebbeman From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Jul 1 22:24:56 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: who bought that 11/785 maintenance manual from ebay? Message-ID: <3B3FE988.44A44281@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, did you notice a few weeks abo there was a VAX 11/785 technical maintenacne manual up on ebay. If you are the winning bidder or if you have that manual from elsewhere or if you have bookmarked that auction and can give me the item number so I can contact the winner, I'd appreciate it. Any other ideas where I could get copies of 11/785 tech docs? Thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jul 1 23:19:19 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: who bought that 11/785 maintenance manual from ebay? In-Reply-To: <3B3FE988.44A44281@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <200107020419.XAA23344@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I have field maintenance print sets for the 11/780 and the 11/785. These are rather huge, and 11x17. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > > did you notice a few weeks ago there was a VAX 11/785 technical > maintenance manual up on ebay. If you are the winning bidder or > if you have that manual from elsewhere or if you have bookmarked > that auction and can give me the item number so I can contact the > winner, I'd appreciate it. Any other ideas where I could get > copies of 11/785 tech docs? > > Thanks, > -Gunther From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jul 1 23:42:54 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Free Thinking Machines CM-5 In-Reply-To: <3B3D2A5A.9078A645@tiac.net> Message-ID: > What a shame. This rack was never a real machine, as far as I can tell. It does not have a tag or serial number on it, and since the movie was being filmed pretty much after Thinking Machines sank, it was probably just an extra rack. The blinkenlights panels (yes, they really blink, in one of seven ways) were mounted in a rather non-standard way, complete with black construction paper for light shields. The rack has a power supply for the eight panels, but never had anything else installed (backplanes, more supplies, cables, etc.). So it is really not a shame. In fact, its rebirth as 10,000 Cambell's soup cans will be fairly painless, as four of the panels will be used to populate the network cabinet of a real CM-5. Did you ever work on CM-5s? The damn things have the most complex set of skins ever devised (purely form over function), and frankly, I am stuck. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 2 00:29:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Scrapyard finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994051756.3b4006aca33f2@email.ou.edu> I went to a grandpa-of-a-friend-of-a-friend's scrapyard Saturday. It was one of those disappointing wish-you-were-here-a-month-ago visits. Yes, the guy did have a bunch of Univac stuff. The key word here is 'did'. About a month ago, he loaded it onto 16 pallets and sold it to some people "from China". He said some of it was "never taken out of its original crate". Please give me a second to cause bodily harm to myself. :-( The first cool thing I found was a set of old air traffic control radar stations. They had been out there a *while* and weren't in good condition at all, but they were cool to look at. I found the twisted remnants of what was apparently an old Four Phase switches-and-blinkenlights mini. It looked like it had been out there for several years also. Underneath the layer of grime, the central processor (about the same size as a BA11 box) seemed mostly intact except for a missing faceplate. Anyone know what set of computers this could be? Even though it's hosed, is it a rare enough find that I should buy it and salvage what I can? Next find was called a Raytheon 703 Central Processor. It looks like it has light-up pushbuttons instead of LED/lamps and switches. >From the lights it looks like it has a 16-bit word size and 15-bit addresses. Anyone know what this is? It looks to be in decent condition. Should I pick it up? I found several highly OEM PDP-11 systems that looked like they were some kind of radar controller computer. Unfortunately, the cabinets looked like they had been picked up by the nearby crane and dropped to their present location (i.e., smashed to hell). I'll investigate further when I can bring a can of bug spray to take out the integrated hornet nests. Final find was a set of MicroPDP-11 BA23s, in various states from complete to completely stripped. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From leec at slip.net Mon Jul 2 00:29:58 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: who bought that 11/785 maintenance manual from ebay? In-Reply-To: <200107020419.XAA23344@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: Lawrence, If you ever decide you need the space I'd urge you to donate the field maintenance print sets to The Computer Museum History Center, but let me copy them first. I have a 785 which (hopefully before the upcoming VCF) will be up and running. I'm also interested in any other documentation which might help a very lightweight former VAX user get this system up and keep it running. Thanks! Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence LeMay > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:19 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: who bought that 11/785 maintenance manual from ebay? > > > I have field maintenance print sets for the 11/780 and the 11/785. > These are rather huge, and 11x17. > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > > > > > did you notice a few weeks ago there was a VAX 11/785 technical > > maintenance manual up on ebay. If you are the winning bidder or > > if you have that manual from elsewhere or if you have bookmarked > > that auction and can give me the item number so I can contact the > > winner, I'd appreciate it. Any other ideas where I could get > > copies of 11/785 tech docs? > > > > Thanks, > > -Gunther > From hansp at aconit.org Mon Jul 2 00:36:22 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Any Luck With Bull? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151287@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B400856.5570A570@aconit.org> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Hello, Hans... > It's been a while since we chatted, and I was wondering > if the health of your friend at Bull had improved such > that you could once again considering discussing with > him the liberation of the Multics source code (and who > knows, maybe a bootstrap tape). > > It'll be a shame if we have to rebuild using the MIT > archive, but if that's all we've got, well... AFAIK the efforts to release multics source code are ongoing. I haven't checked on progress recently but I will be in contact with my friend at Bull in the near future and will get an update. I'll keep you informed of significant news. -- HBP From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 2 00:41:11 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: The Seven Dwarfs In-Reply-To: <3B3F8A10.65C1E9D3@aconit.org> References: <200107011937.f61JbLk05452@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> <3B3F8A10.65C1E9D3@aconit.org> Message-ID: <994052471.3b4009776046f@email.ou.edu> Anybody remember John Dvorak's "IBM and the Seven Dwarfs" columns in Computer Shopper a few years ago? He gave a short history of a dwarf each month. I should have saved them... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From dancohoe at oxford.net Mon Jul 2 07:29:47 2001 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Eproms Available (was RE: IMSAI EPROMS) References: <78.16fa1e33.286ff085@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B40693B.275ABA0A@oxford.net> Hello Mike: I would like to get a box of these eproms if you go ahead with your plan. I can send you a US Dollar money order, cashable at your Post Office. My address is: Dan Cohoe R R # 2 Burgessville, Ontario Canada N0J 1C0 Thanks, Dan Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > I fell behind in my reading and was catching up today when I came across > Joel A. Weder's posting from 8 Jun 2001 and the > responses on Eproms. > > One of my recent hauls included a box of Eproms. There was around 100 > tubes of 2708/2716/2732. A rough count shows around 1000 2708's, and > 125 or so each of the 2716's & 2732's. Since I will never need that > many, I would like to make them available to the list. > > For now and to be fair to all list members, I was thinking of dividing them > up into 45 (2708 35 ea, 2716 5 ea, 2732 5 ea) to a small box. I'll ask $5 > per box to cover shipping and handling. > > If you really want more than one box, we'll wait and see after those wanting > just one box have had their chance and then figure out shipping for 'bulk' > orders. > > Mike Thompson From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 2 07:57:14 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: OT Celebration In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010702085521.00a86a00@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:48 AM 7/1/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. > >Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the 52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) Joe >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 2 08:18:46 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Zorro I vs Zorro II (was RE: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010701060456.94266.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010629141443.01c9d570@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010702081741.01e244f0@pc> At 11:04 PM 6/30/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> At 12:09 PM 6/29/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >I have personally seen a Zorro I expansion box. It was stolen from the >> >Ohio State University Physics Demonstration Department... >> >> Wasn't the first made by Byte-by-Byte, quite early on? > >Perhaps. I remember Sculpt3D (got a couple of copies) and the joystick >clock (there were also parallel-port clocks in that era). It sounds >plausible, though. I probably have pictures of its launch, somewhere, or they were published in Amazing Computing. I first met Brad Carvey because of his work on this expansion box. - John From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 2 08:59:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: OT Celebration Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715128F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. > > > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the > 52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) Puerto Rico Estado? Uh Uh.... Puerto Rico Libre! (that was the consensus in San Juan... tho one guy said: "Puerto Rico Estado Libre", his way of saying "status quo, please". -dq From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 11:33:21 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <1970.583T850T1594691optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010702163321.8868.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> Ethan Dicks skrev: > >> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single > >> mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly > >> useful. > > >I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken. > > List, what do you say? Through this list, classiccmp@classiccmp.org. That's how I _thought_ I first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken. > But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on the D-subs for those annoying DEC > modular plugs? If you wanted more TTYs than the console, perhaps. Worst case, I suppose, you could build a level-converter board with a MAX-232 chip or 1488/1489 or whatever (DEC also used 9636/9637 pairs IIRC) to go from the D-subs at the edge of the board to something more standard (the 15-pin connector does have two 3-wire serial connections - that clip-on piece converts them to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ) > And there's still the power question. True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick. It's a bunch of work, I'll admit, but it depends on how badly you want a VAX and whether or not you have alternatives. I certainly wouldn't do it if I had another VAX that worked. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 11:44:50 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010702164450.10271.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage > >locker. > > You have VMS V1.0 doc's?!?!?! Out of curiousity how big are they? That's > something that would be very cool to get scanned in. Larger than the RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much smaller than an Orange Wall. I think there are two cartons of binders, so call it 12 volumes of several hundred pages each. I was thinking about these very docs this weekend and the other thread about OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to OCR something like this and, rather than storage as flat text or HTML, attempt to push the text back into RUNOFF. Does anyone have a RUNOFF clone in perl? I presume that excepting strange dependence on odd, undocumented behavior (i.e., plain, by- the-book usage), it wouldn't be difficult to make a state-based RUNOFF engine in perl. obHistory: Software Results did not get a VAX until the 11/750 came out (I still have that one...s/n BT000354, ordered the day they were announced), but they did port the HASPBOX software from the PDP-11/70 to the VAX at DEC's request (on 11/780 s/n 00006, a sales-demo model at the home office, as we were told - DEC had a customer who wouldn't upgrade to a VAX unless it could get files to/from the IBM mainframe, just like his PDP-11 ;-) I presume the docs came out of that early developement effort. The next time I am at the storage unit, I will look for the manuals. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 2 12:15:38 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS) In-Reply-To: <20010702164450.10271.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >Larger than the RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much smaller than an >>Orange Wall. I think there are two cartons of binders, so call it 12 >>volumes of several hundred pages each. OK, definitly bigger than I was thinking. Though when you say an Orange Wall I guess you're talking VAX/VMS V4 not RT-11 V5.x (which unless I just miscounted is 9 volumes). >I was thinking about these very docs this weekend and the other thread >>about OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it >to OCR something like this and, rather than storage as flat text or >HTML, attempt to push the text back into RUNOFF. Does anyone have a >RUNOFF clone in perl? I presume that excepting strange dependence on >odd, undocumented behavior (i.e., plain, by-the-book usage), it >wouldn't be difficult to make a state-based RUNOFF engine in perl. Something to consider. If you scan it in at 300-600dpi into Adobe Acrobat files you produce a usable copy without any errors (unless you should miss a page). OTOH, if you OCR it you're adding a LOT of work *and* adding the large possibility of errors creeping in. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 2 12:19:40 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: KIM-1 Message-ID: <10107021819.ZM13237@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I've just been offered a KIM-1 by a friend, and I'd like to give him something for it. Does anyone have suggestions as to its value? It's a revision G board, with a date code of 1178 (well, I assume that's the date code) and has the Commodore and MOS logos in the top right, with a large "F" and a small "8" stamped in black ink under the "KIM-1" name. It has all black plastic chips (not any white ceramic like some early ones), and the RAM chips are NEC 2102's rather than MOS 6102's. It's been well used but was working last time anyone tried it. Don't yet know if there are any manuals -- though I've found copies on the 'net. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 12:33:09 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200107011713.f61HD4b01213@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010702173309.90329.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3?... > > Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me. Sorry. I don't tend to over-edit attributions, so perhaps you were the only name at the top when it got to me and I didn't notice that the part you did write didn't make it in the final version. In any case, my apologies if any aspersions were cast. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 12:34:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <20010701175851.KBUV2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010702173430.36409.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> > > From: "Mike Kenzie" > > To: > > Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 > > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:26:38 -0400 > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org A tip... even if your wife won't let the computers in the house, you should bring any magnetic media inside. Papertape, if stored dry, of course, isn't a problem, but watch out for rodents. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 12:40:44 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010702174044.484.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >Larger than the RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much smaller than an > >>Orange Wall. > > OK, definitly bigger than I was thinking. Though when you say an Orange > Wall I guess you're talking VAX/VMS V4 not RT-11 V5.x (which unless I just > miscounted is 9 volumes). Right. VMS V4, not RT-11 V5.x. Speaking of which, I also happen to have said Orange Wall and a Grey Wall (VMS V5.x) in the attic. For that matter, I'll check tonight if the VMS 1.0 docs are upstairs, but I don't think so. > >I was thinking about these very docs this weekend and the other thread > >>about OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it > >to OCR something like this and... push the text back into RUNOFF. > Something to consider. If you scan it in at 300-600dpi into Adobe Acrobat > files you produce a usable copy without any errors (unless you should miss > a page). Right, and if I were scanning it in, I'd probably spin it off that way. > OTOH, if you OCR it you're adding a LOT of work *and* adding the > large possibility of errors creeping in. It would be at least one order of magnitude of work larger, and would require much review and editing, but I'm just trying to consider if it's worth doing. I did a similar task on a 4-page table of Commodore ROM versions and spent lots of time validating the data, much more time than scanning, as you might expect. Given that VMS 1.0 is largely a curiosity, probably not. Some later version of OS/8 might be viable (smaller dataset, larger user base). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 2 12:04:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: KIM-1 In-Reply-To: <10107021819.ZM13237@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > I've just been offered a KIM-1 by a friend, and I'd like to give him > something for it. Does anyone have suggestions as to its value? > > It's a revision G board, with a date code of 1178 (well, I assume that's > the date code) and has the Commodore and MOS logos in the top right, with a > large "F" and a small "8" stamped in black ink under the "KIM-1" name. It > has all black plastic chips (not any white ceramic like some early ones), > and the RAM chips are NEC 2102's rather than MOS 6102's. It's been well > used but was working last time anyone tried it. $50 should suffice. $100 if you're feeling extremely generous. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 2 13:11:23 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <20010702173309.90329.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 02, 2001 10:33:09 AM Message-ID: <200107021811.f62IBNg05552@narnia.int.dittman.net> > --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3?... > > > > Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me. > > Sorry. I don't tend to over-edit attributions, so perhaps you were the only > name at the top when it got to me and I didn't notice that the part you did > write didn't make it in the final version. In any case, my apologies if any > aspersions were cast. No aspersions, I just find that people tend to send email based on the attributions, so I didn't want anyone mislead. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 2 13:35:48 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Pro350 Message-ID: <200107021835.f62IZmP05644@narnia.int.dittman.net> I am in touch with a guy that has a Pro350 for sale. He wants $100 for it. Is anyone interested? I don't think he wants to come down any. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 2 13:45:24 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <20010702163321.8868.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107021845.UAA02531@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2 Jul, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Through this list, classiccmp@classiccmp.org. That's how I _thought_ I > first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken. The VS2k SCSI boot ROM patches are available at: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/ I applied this patch to my VS2k boot ROM and it worked. (= I was able to load the NetBSD first stage boot loader and a friend was able to boot VMS.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 3 01:55:39 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP 7970E tape drive woes References: Message-ID: <038a01c1038d$2bff2ca0$0f8953d1@jay> Greetings and a question for the list.... My HP7970E tape drive is *sick* (plus I just blew the 30v supply in my HP2100A, but that's a whole other story about me and Murphy's Laws on getting HP2000 Access up and running). Do others find that resurrecting these old systems causes a propensity to drink excessively? *GRIN* On to the question... The 7970E passes all the mechanical tests via the switches internal to the unit (tape speeds & motion basically). It fails the read/write test portion of the diagnostics (but does pass interrupt/DMA tests so I suspect the interface boards are ok). Is anyone particularly familiar with these beasts and can suggest a course of action? I have all the "theory of operation" and "maintenance" manuals (as well as schematics), but they are two 4 inch thick manuals and a lot of it is way over my head. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction to at least get me started - or better yet, anyone have a 7970E up and running that would be willing to loan me some boards to test mine via boardswapping?? Thanks for any info (or condolences & empathy) anyone can provide! Jay West From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 3 02:27:17 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <000d01c10218$8a585540$7c8953d1@jay> <3B3F3AF9.87FAF246@tiac.net> Message-ID: <03a601c10391$9755ac00$0f8953d1@jay> Bob wrote... > "Incorrect" may have been a poor choice of words....however I have documentation > > that shows a HP2100 shipped by HP with the older reader interface board. In > fact > one of the reader boards I have was removed from a basket-case 2100 system. > > I wounder when HP switched over, and why? No Kidding!? That's truely interesting. You have my curiosity up, I'd love to know what the deal is for my own future reference. I do have a lot of sales literature and marketing collateral for these systems, and all of them show the 2748B paper tape reader as using an 8-bit duplex register board. Hummmmmmm.... You know what - is it possible that the ones that use this "tape reader interface board" that you've seen are the 2748A reader and the B version uses the 8-bit duplex register board? All the literature and docs I have shows the 2748B, I have nothing that relates to the 2748A which is why I'm conjecturing this. One wouldn't think that HP would release a board with the same electrical specs as the 8-bit duplex board, so wouldn't you think the electronics in the reader would have to be different for the two boards? Most interesting... could you check and see if your reader is the A one that uses this board Bob? Or maybe show us a pinout of the old style reader interface vs. the new style? > Umm, how is the 2114 not an HP machine? (The 2114 was developed by HP.) > > Your thinking of the 2116 perhaps, which was originally developed by a small > firm that > HP later absorbed? I knew the first 21xx machine was already designed and put together by another company, and HP just absorbed the company. When they saw how sucessfull it was, they then came out with the other two. I was thinking this first one was the 2114, and the HP made ones were the 2115 and 2116. I stand humbly corrected - must be the 2116 that was absorbed and they made the other two. The 2100 did come later. Interesting tidbit - one of HP's largest users of the 2100 system was a company called "MeasureX". This company had it's own engineering staff and redesigned the 2100 to be a single cpu card. They sold this design back to HP and it became the 21MX line. The MX in 21MX stands for MeasureX. I got this directly from a phone call with the former VP of engineering of MeasureX, so I suspect it is accurate historically. > at least 1 2100A shipped using the older style interface board I'm just wild guessing here, but is it possible that the 2100A that you got had the tape reader (old style) added later and wasn't actually sold that way from HP? The reason I'm wondering this is I have the sales/ordering guide for the 2100A and the 2100S, and both only specify the 8-bit duplex register. Most Strange! My earlier comments were based on the HP sales/ordering guide, and in retrospect you're quite right, those guides were almost certainly revised from time to time and earlier ones than mine might indeed use the old style reader board. Again, I'm wondering if it's not the A reader that used it? > What is your definition of a '2100 machine'? > > 2114, 2115, and 2116 machines run HP 2100 software, and were the original > processors > used in HP2000 time share basic systems. They originated the HP board interface > used > all the way up to the MX and E series. The software on the HP2100 archive site > is that > which originally shipped with 2114 thru 2116 systems. > > If these classic machines are not 2100's, then what are they? >From the sales/ordering guides that I have (but perhaps I'm reading them wrong or drawing incorrect conclusions): The 2100 machine is a 2100 machine. 2100 was not a family or class of machines, it was a specific machine (2100 with option pack A or S). There is no difference in the A and S versions except the S version included options as standard which were also available from the outset on the A. From what I can gather, the 2114/5/6 machines were not referred to as "2100's", they were referred to as 2114/5/6. Part of my basis for this is logical - they wouldn't name the 2100 (which came later) a 2100 if that was the generic family name for the 2114/5/6 machines I'm guessing. The early nomenclature of HP's mini products is *SO* confusing... cpu's that were called 21MX's were later redesignated 1000 machines, etc. Plus the whole 2000 thing that doesn't refer to a computer, but rather a specific configuration of both hardware and software (for TSB). What a mess. What's your take on this Bob? Regards, Jay West From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 3 02:58:03 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: Message-ID: <03bf01c10395$e36f09c0$0f8953d1@jay> More info.... Just was digging for the repair/maintenance manual on the 2100 power supply (see previous message *GRIN*)... Came across a manual I had forgotten I had... The "1970 HP measurement, analysis, and computation reference catalog". It has the 2114/5/6 B version systems in it. It does specify there is an 8-bit duplex register board, so that board existed at the time. The paper tape reader isn't a 2748A/B variety, it's listed as a 2737A punched tape reader using (included) a 12532A interface. The 12532A obviously isn't a dup reg board :) (the kit listed at $2100 by the way). This catalog also has the 2000A timeshared basic system (using a 2116) and it specifies a paper tape reader is included, it's also the 2737A with a 12532A interface. Is this 12532A interface that I've never heard of the original tape reader interface you're referring to Bob? I'm not familiar with the 2737A reader, is it possible the 2737A used the old style interface and the 2748 used the later one? Surely someone knows this for sure! Here's some rather historically interesting l970 list prices for those fellow HP'ers on the list: 2116B cpu, $24,000 (8K) 2115A cpu, $14,500 (4k) or $19,500 (8K) 2114B cpu, $8,500 (4K) or $13,000 (8K) 2773A drum memory with 2776A power supply, $23,500 (393,216 16bit words, transfer rate 120Kw/sec, access time 8.7ms average) For those on the list into the 9100 calculator/computers, 1970 list price for the 9100A was $4400 and the 9100B was $4900. Jay West From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 15:26:17 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <200107021845.UAA02531@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20010702202617.18209.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > The VS2k SCSI boot ROM patches are available at: > ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/ Thank you... I was going to post this, but I didn't have my old bookmark file handy. > I applied this patch to my VS2k boot ROM and it worked. (= I was able > to load the NetBSD first stage boot loader and a friend was able to boot > VMS.) Since I had an older version of the ROMs, I could not patch my existing ones, so I had to aquire a binary file of the entire contents pre-patched. So I have this file, and I have split it into 4 parts and burned it onto 4 ROMs. Does anyone have any idea which socket on the KA410 corresponds to which bytes of a quad-word? Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 15:57:49 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? Message-ID: Want me to look up the board for the 2748B? I own both a 2748B and the manual for it, so I can see what the manual says is correct... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ecloud at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 2 16:09:35 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: IBM 604 Message-ID: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Interesting article here: http://www.ddj.com/columns/history/2001/0106hc/0106hc001.htm -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 2 16:43:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: KIM-1 References: <10107021819.ZM13237@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <001d01c1033f$ffe97f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If the KIM-1 seems to work properly, i.e. all the keypad switches are in working order and legible, and the display works OK, $100 wouldn't be too much, provided it's clean and complete with doc's. If not, well ... If you plan to use it a lot, I'd recommend installing an external keypad and perhaps a larger display, to preserve the existing keypad, and your eyes, respectively. If you look back in the archive about 6 months or so, there was considerable discussion about the keypad and display. The KIM-1 is an interesting device because it was cooked up as a demo environment for the MOS-Technology line of LSI's, yet became quite popular in the computer hobbyist community. I see no real reason for that, but it was a BIG seller. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: KIM-1 > I've just been offered a KIM-1 by a friend, and I'd like to give him > something for it. Does anyone have suggestions as to its value? > > It's a revision G board, with a date code of 1178 (well, I assume that's > the date code) and has the Commodore and MOS logos in the top right, with a > large "F" and a small "8" stamped in black ink under the "KIM-1" name. It > has all black plastic chips (not any white ceramic like some early ones), > and the RAM chips are NEC 2102's rather than MOS 6102's. It's been well > used but was working last time anyone tried it. > > Don't yet know if there are any manuals -- though I've found copies on the > 'net. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 2 16:23:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <20010702173430.36409.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010701175851.KBUV2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >A tip... even if your wife won't let the computers in the house, you >should bring any magnetic media inside. Papertape, if stored dry, of >course, isn't a problem, but watch out for rodents. Not just rodents, but the whole litany of smaller creepy crawlies. Either use a way station, ie open well lighted spot in garage, or better use some gloves and repack the whole mess into clean containers with lids etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 2 16:17:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: KIM-1 In-Reply-To: <10107021819.ZM13237@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >I've just been offered a KIM-1 by a friend, and I'd like to give him >something for it. Does anyone have suggestions as to its value? Unless the person needs or is really expecting money, consider giving them something in exchange. While I think cash is dandy with people you don't know, there is NO right amount among friends, especially for something unique. I am more comfortable with cash for commodity items. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 2 17:48:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: New finds at a school auction In-Reply-To: <01c101c1016b$b910d0e0$9e701fd1@default> Message-ID: >Wednesday of this week I went to a school auction and came away 3 new in >the stuff that they will be trashing. You could buy a lot for $1 >(sometimes the lot would have over 100 items in it), the prices were >right but just too much stuff. Sad but true. Half the time the stuff isn't palletized correctly, and everything on the bottom is squeeshed (not broken, but say all the metal panels on the apple II's bent, keys off etc.). In the past I have taken the time to scrap out whole pallets, but ONLY when I can see some examples of decent contents poking out the back of the computers. Last time I went through two pallets, and took away about a grocery bags worth of cards, mostly that I now would not keep any more of. What made it worthwhile were about a dozen or so nice cards, 3 high speed SCSI, some workstation cards, larger ram cards, and 3 or 4 very clean units, one of which had an internal hard drive. What made it work was that I was able to pillage the pallets on site, ie take what I wanted and leave the rest on the pallets stacked as I found it. The only other option I would be agreeable too is to completely scrap the units I didn't want, with access to a dumpster for the cases. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 18:41:10 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Free Thinking Machines CM-5 References: Message-ID: <3B410695.A6963535@tiac.net> No sir, I only worked on the original CM-1 prototypes. I was a junior engineer for TMI long long ago, and designed some (minor) parts of the CM-1's such as the system staus panels, power supply margining scheme, and a clock distribution ECO that de-skewed the early hardware. TMI was a very odd place to work. The mechanical engineer for the Connection Machines was a really brilliant engineer. I can't place his name at the moment, but I do recall him telling me that very early in his carreer, he had gotten to do some mechanical design for the electronics modules that went to the moon on the Apollo missions. William Donzelli wrote: > > What a shame. > > This rack was never a real machine, as far as I can tell. It does not have > a tag or serial number on it, and since the movie was being filmed pretty > much after Thinking Machines sank, it was probably just an extra rack. The > blinkenlights panels (yes, they really blink, in one of seven ways) were > mounted in a rather non-standard way, complete with black construction > paper for light shields. The rack has a power supply for the eight panels, > but never had anything else installed (backplanes, more supplies, cables, > etc.). > > So it is really not a shame. In fact, its rebirth as 10,000 Cambell's > soup cans will be fairly painless, as four of the panels will be used to > populate the network cabinet of a real CM-5. > > Did you ever work on CM-5s? The damn things have the most complex set of > skins ever devised (purely form over function), and frankly, I am stuck. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 18:43:07 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Scrapyard finds References: <994051756.3b4006aca33f2@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B41070B.39D47417@tiac.net> Ohhh, and RCA 703 eh? I've been after an RCA 704 for a long while, for no good reason. Personally, I'd jump on the 703 in a heartbeat. What kind of shape is it in? "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > I went to a grandpa-of-a-friend-of-a-friend's scrapyard Saturday. > It was one of those disappointing wish-you-were-here-a-month-ago > visits. Yes, the guy did have a bunch of Univac stuff. The key > word here is 'did'. About a month ago, he loaded it onto 16 > pallets and sold it to some people "from China". He said some of > it was "never taken out of its original crate". Please give me a > second to cause bodily harm to myself. :-( > > The first cool thing I found was a set of old air traffic control > radar stations. They had been out there a *while* and weren't in > good condition at all, but they were cool to look at. > > I found the twisted remnants of what was apparently an old Four > Phase switches-and-blinkenlights mini. It looked like it had been > out there for several years also. Underneath the layer of grime, > the central processor (about the same size as a BA11 box) seemed > mostly intact except for a missing faceplate. Anyone know what set > of computers this could be? Even though it's hosed, is it a rare > enough find that I should buy it and salvage what I can? > > Next find was called a Raytheon 703 Central Processor. It looks > like it has light-up pushbuttons instead of LED/lamps and switches. > >From the lights it looks like it has a 16-bit word size and 15-bit > addresses. Anyone know what this is? It looks to be in decent > condition. Should I pick it up? > > I found several highly OEM PDP-11 systems that looked like they > were some kind of radar controller computer. Unfortunately, the > cabinets looked like they had been picked up by the nearby crane > and dropped to their present location (i.e., smashed to hell). > I'll investigate further when I can bring a can of bug spray to > take out the integrated hornet nests. > > Final find was a set of MicroPDP-11 BA23s, in various states from > complete to completely stripped. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 18:54:27 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP 7970E tape drive woes References: <038a01c1038d$2bff2ca0$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B4109B3.F0902A85@tiac.net> I have a HP7970E. Where are you located Jay? Jay West wrote: > Greetings and a question for the list.... > > My HP7970E tape drive is *sick* (plus I just blew the 30v supply in my > HP2100A, but that's a whole other story about me and Murphy's Laws on > getting HP2000 Access up and running). Do others find that resurrecting > these old systems causes a propensity to drink excessively? *GRIN* > > On to the question... The 7970E passes all the mechanical tests via the > switches internal to the unit (tape speeds & motion basically). It fails the > read/write test portion of the diagnostics (but does pass interrupt/DMA > tests so I suspect the interface boards are ok). Is anyone particularly > familiar with these beasts and can suggest a course of action? I have all > the "theory of operation" and "maintenance" manuals (as well as schematics), > but they are two 4 inch thick manuals and a lot of it is way over my head. > Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction to at least get me > started - or better yet, anyone have a 7970E up and running that would be > willing to loan me some boards to test mine via boardswapping?? > > Thanks for any info (or condolences & empathy) anyone can provide! > > Jay West From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 19:13:52 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <000d01c10218$8a585540$7c8953d1@jay> <3B3F3AF9.87FAF246@tiac.net> <03a601c10391$9755ac00$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B410E40.6D87FE62@tiac.net> I've done some digging, and I think I have some new info... Jay West wrote: > Bob wrote... > > "Incorrect" may have been a poor choice of words....however I have > documentation > > > > that shows a HP2100 shipped by HP with the older reader interface board. > In > > fact > > one of the reader boards I have was removed from a basket-case 2100 > system. > > > > I wounder when HP switched over, and why? > > No Kidding!? That's truely interesting. You have my curiosity up, I'd love > to know what the deal is for my own future reference. Apparently HP switched from the dedicated tape reader board sometime in the early 1970's. I located a guide to HP interface cards that describes the 8 bit duplex board as being used with the HP2748A and B, as well as the tape punch. The older 'Tape Reader' board could never drive a punch, its only an 8 bit transistor drive input port, with flag and control bits. My current guess is that sometime during the transition from the 2100 to the M series machines, when logic had gotten cheap, they dropped the tape reader board and used the 8 bit duplex board as both the reader replacement interface, and also as the punch interface. But I gather that if you had a punch and reader on a M-series box, you had 2 8 bit duplex boards...is this correct? The old-style tape reader board also interfaced to the HP2847 readers, which had the same ITT-Cannon connector as the '48's. > I do have a lot of sales literature and marketing collateral for these > systems, and all of them show the 2748B paper tape reader as using an 8-bit > duplex register board. Hummmmmmm.... You know what - is it possible that the > ones that use this "tape reader interface board" that you've seen are the > 2748A reader and the B version uses the 8-bit duplex register board? All the > literature and docs I have shows the 2748B, I have nothing that relates to > the 2748A which is why I'm conjecturing this. One wouldn't think that HP > would release a board with the same electrical specs as the 8-bit duplex > board, so wouldn't you think the electronics in the reader would have to be > different for the two boards? Most interesting... could you check and see if > your reader is the A one that uses this board Bob? Or maybe show us a pinout > of the old style reader interface vs. the new style? I can post the pin-out for the HP Tape Reader board, its totally different than the 8 bit duplex board. There are 4 bits of data on the top left, and 4 bits on the bottom left of the I/O finger connector. Of course the duplex register has all 8 bits of each direction on one side of the board, etc. As for readers themselves, I've had too many problems with the clutches, and some of my paper tapes are a bit fragile, so I copied them onto eproms and built an emulator. Frankly, I'm not sure I still have any physical HP readers. The last actual reader I used is an older Decitek... At least one old HP reader was canabilized to make my first reader emulator... > > Umm, how is the 2114 not an HP machine? (The 2114 was developed by HP.) > > > > Your thinking of the 2116 perhaps, which was originally developed by a > small > > firm that > > HP later absorbed? > > I knew the first 21xx machine was already designed and put together by > another company, and HP just absorbed the company. When they saw how > sucessfull it was, they then came out with the other two. I was thinking > this first one was the 2114, and the HP made ones were the 2115 and 2116. I > stand humbly corrected - must be the 2116 that was absorbed and they made > the other two. The 2100 did come later. Interesting tidbit - one of HP's > largest users of the 2100 system was a company called "MeasureX". This > company had it's own engineering staff and redesigned the 2100 to be a > single cpu card. They sold this design back to HP and it became the 21MX > line. The MX in 21MX stands for MeasureX. I got this directly from a phone > call with the former VP of engineering of MeasureX, so I suspect it is > accurate historically. What we know today as the HP2116 machines were developed by Dymec Instruments. This is the same firm that developed the HP2401 digital volt meter (with nixi tubes!). Dymec was absorbed into HP, and so began HP's computer systems division. I may be mistaken, but I think a friend actually has a re-badged Dymec 2116! > > > at least 1 2100A shipped using the older style interface board > > I'm just wild guessing here, but is it possible that the 2100A that you got > had the tape reader (old style) added later and wasn't actually sold that > way from HP? The reason I'm wondering this is I have the sales/ordering > guide for the 2100A and the 2100S, and both only specify the 8-bit duplex > register. Most Strange! My earlier comments were based on the HP > sales/ordering guide, and in retrospect you're quite right, those guides > were almost certainly revised from time to time and earlier ones than mine > might indeed use the old style reader board. Again, I'm wondering if it's > not the A reader that used it? Hmmm, that was a long time ago. I cannot say if the 2100A used the A or B reader, but the old-style reader board workes all the way back to the 2747 reader, so I suspect that the interface never changed. The 8 bit duplex register board does use the same logic levels, assuming your have an inverted duplex register. As for the 2100A I found with a old-style interface, that machine had come out of MIT so its an easy bet people had been screwing around with the configuration. If your super-curious, I have the old-style board and cable. I suspect it will plug into your 2748B and run perfectly. > > What is your definition of a '2100 machine'? > > > > 2114, 2115, and 2116 machines run HP 2100 software, and were the original > > processors > > used in HP2000 time share basic systems. They originated the HP board > interface > > used > > all the way up to the MX and E series. The software on the HP2100 archive > site > > is that > > which originally shipped with 2114 thru 2116 systems. > > > > If these classic machines are not 2100's, then what are they? > > >From the sales/ordering guides that I have (but perhaps I'm reading them > wrong or drawing incorrect conclusions): The 2100 machine is a 2100 machine. > 2100 was not a family or class of machines, it was a specific machine (2100 > with option pack A or S). There is no difference in the A and S versions > except the S version included options as standard which were also available > from the outset on the A. From what I can gather, the 2114/5/6 machines were > not referred to as "2100's", they were referred to as 2114/5/6. Part of my > basis for this is logical - they wouldn't name the 2100 (which came later) a > 2100 if that was the generic family name for the 2114/5/6 machines I'm > guessing. The early nomenclature of HP's mini products is *SO* confusing... > cpu's that were called 21MX's were later redesignated 1000 machines, etc. > Plus the whole 2000 thing that doesn't refer to a computer, but rather a > specific configuration of both hardware and software (for TSB). What a mess. > What's your take on this Bob? > > Regards, > > Jay West Hmmm, you could get a HP time share basic system with a 2116 (original version) or a 2100A, so to my eyes, the 2100 is simply another model in the same line as the 2114 through 2116. But the 2100's look and feel, and style of construction is totally different from the earlier machines. I just don't know. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 19:25:25 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <03bf01c10395$e36f09c0$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B4110F5.FC2A3E83@tiac.net> Jay West wrote: > More info.... > > Just was digging for the repair/maintenance manual on the 2100 power supply > (see previous message *GRIN*)... > > Came across a manual I had forgotten I had... The "1970 HP measurement, > analysis, and computation reference catalog". > > It has the 2114/5/6 B version systems in it. It does specify there is an > 8-bit duplex register board, so that board existed at the time. The paper > tape reader isn't a 2748A/B variety, it's listed as a 2737A punched tape > reader using (included) a 12532A interface. The 12532A obviously isn't a dup > reg board :) (the kit listed at $2100 by the way). This catalog also has the > 2000A timeshared basic system (using a 2116) and it specifies a paper tape > reader is included, it's also the 2737A with a 12532A interface. Is this > 12532A interface that I've never heard of the original tape reader interface > you're referring to Bob? I have references to the 8 bit duplex board existing in 1969, so I have no doubt of its existance in the same period as the dedicated tape reader I/F. The old-style reader board I have in my hand does not carry any part number like 12532A at all. There are number such as: 02116-8002 (in etch) ASSY 02116-6002 (in black ink) 72189 (printed on a silver and black adhesive lable near the extractor handle) 9102951 (printed in black ink on a clear adhesive lable) In my past posts I refered to a HP2747 reader. I was mistaken. That earlier reader is the 2737. This reader uses a special lamp with a long filament to shine over a series of photodiodes that read the tape. This special lamp is a real pain, as with age the filament would droop and you had to rotate the bulb in place to keep the filament in line over the reader pickup. Also, the mechanical clutch suffered a good deal of wear and tare. Not an especially good reader. > I'm not familiar with the 2737A reader, is it possible the 2737A used the > old style interface and the 2748 used the later one? Surely someone knows > this for sure! Absolutely not. I had the early ('37) reader, and upgraded to the later model, but I never replaced my cable nor interface card. > Here's some rather historically interesting l970 list prices for those > fellow HP'ers on the list: > > 2116B cpu, $24,000 (8K) > 2115A cpu, $14,500 (4k) or $19,500 (8K) > 2114B cpu, $8,500 (4K) or $13,000 (8K) > 2773A drum memory with 2776A power supply, $23,500 (393,216 16bit words, > transfer rate 120Kw/sec, access time 8.7ms average) Ooooooo! HP Drum memory! Oh how I want one..... > For those on the list into the 9100 calculator/computers, 1970 list price > for the 9100A was $4400 and the 9100B was $4900. > > Jay West From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jul 2 19:57:49 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> >Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Interesting article here: > http://www.ddj.com/columns/history/2001/0106hc/0106hc001.htm Jerome Fine replies: Figure 3 sure looks similar to what I remember of an IBM 650 that I used in 1960, some ten years later. The reader/punch was still the same. I also feel that the actual IBM 650 unit was similar in looks on the outside to the IBM 604 shown. But inside, there must have been a huge difference. The IBM 650 allowed 3 drums (if I remember correctly - or maybe one big one that was 3 times the size of the minimum variety). In any case, the system I first cut my real computing teeth on (I had had some acquaintance with computers about two years prior when I worked for an insurance company during the summer) was an IBM 650 unit with 6000 words (10 decimal digits each) which could represent either one instruction or one integer/floating point number. The address range for the words was 0000 to 5999 and the op code in each instruction was the first two decimal digits (no new fangled binary in an IBM 650 at this point). Two operands followed with the first being a data value and the second operand always being the address of the next instruction. SOAP (Symbolic Optimal Assembly Program) was used to place the next instruction on the drum in a location based on how long the operation took and where the drum would be in that time. Obviously, the experienced programmer place all inner loops at the very start of the program with both initiation code and termination code coming at the end when it did not matter if all the best locations had been used. The IBM 650 I work with also had 60 words (address 9000 to 9059) of directly addressable storage - I guess in vacuum tube circuits. These were almost always used for data with only the smallest of inner loops being place there for speed. Both input and output for the IBM 650 was punched cards - a 704 was used to list the SOAP output at one instruction per card and another program converted that deck of cards to more than one instruction per card - either 3 or 5 or 7 if I remember correctly - with the maximum being 7 (since 7 * 10 = 70 and 4 columns were reserved for for the load address) and each card in the program deck was numbered in the last 4 columns - I think In any case, as slow as the IBM 650 was by today's standards, it was very fast compared to a mechanical calculating machine that took seconds to do a multiply and tens of seconds to do a division if that were even possible - could a Frieden do a division? What this reply is about is that even ten years later (1960 as opposed to the depicted systems in 1948), the pace of change was still slow and IBM was still THE IBM and the seven dwarfs were just starting to poke up their collective heads. Very little changed between 1950 to 1960 except that the stage was being set for the changes that were to come by 1970 by which time transistors were totally dominant and mass??? storage had arrived in the form of core memory measured in KBytes. The growth seems to have been exponential ever since. Now that was just 40 years ago. What will computers be like in 2040? Those youngsters whose first computer was a Pentium can't even begin to realize how far commercial computing has gone in just 50 years. While the HAL in 2001 may be another 50 years or even a hundred years, eventually there will be programs that will begin to rival the lower level of normal human administrative functions which do not require any imagination and which a canned program will be able to manage in a competent manner. But this last paragraph is the future and OT. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Mon Jul 2 20:07:25 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia auction Message-ID: Because of the interest, I have decided to hold a sealed bid auction for the complete set of Micro Cornucopia magazines. Every issue from #1 (July 1981, 16 pages) to #53 (May 1990, 96 pages) is here. The subheading started out "Journal of the Big Board Users", changed with #7 to "The Single Board Systems Journal", and finally changed with #23 to "The Micro Technical Journal". Topics covered included software--BASIC, Pascal, C, Forth, Smalltalk, Prolog, Wordstar, dBase II, CP/M, MS-DOS, and much more--and hardware--memory upgrades, EPROM erasers, a logic analyzer, video circuitry, even a complete Nat Semi 32000 chip set computer with circuit diagrams. The early issues have almost exclusively Big Board, CP/M, and Z80 content. The final issues have almost exclusively MS-DOS PC content. In the middle there is an incredible variety of hard-core technical articles. Almost all the issues are perfect. The early issues I purchased as back issues so they do not even have mailing labels on them. Issue 21, December-January 1985, has "Sample for Microsystems Readers" printed in red on the front; Micro Cornucopia was trying to pick up subscribers from Sol Libes' magazine that folded. That was my first issue and every issue from #21 on has mailing labels on them. Issue 29 is damaged; it appears that this one was on the end of a bundle--the cover is scuffed and there are small tears at the top and bottom from the binding strap. End of auction is Friday 6 July 2001 at 8pm. Send bids to paul@wccnet.org. Highest bidder wins (duh!). Payment is by check or money order and must be received within 30 days (6 August) of auction end. Shipping costs are IN ADDITION to the bid amount. I can ship via US Mail or UPS. The magazines weigh about 24 pounds and would cost about $9 to ship USPS Media Mail without insurance. Shipping is from Monroe, Michigan 48161. No shipping charges if you pick it up, of course. I will repost this notice on Thursday. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA paul@wccnet.org From leec at slip.net Mon Jul 2 20:11:20 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: HP 7970E tape drive woes In-Reply-To: <038a01c1038d$2bff2ca0$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: Jay, When I was at HP many years ago (left in 1987) I ran across a guy (of course I can;t remember his name) who collected and repaired 7970's as a hobby. I'll try and dig up his name. Ping me if you haven;t heard anything from me in a couple weeks. BTW, what's your email address - the list hides it from me. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:56 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: HP 7970E tape drive woes > > > Greetings and a question for the list.... > > My HP7970E tape drive is *sick* (plus I just blew the 30v supply in my > HP2100A, but that's a whole other story about me and Murphy's Laws on > getting HP2000 Access up and running). Do others find that resurrecting > these old systems causes a propensity to drink excessively? *GRIN* > > On to the question... The 7970E passes all the mechanical tests via the > switches internal to the unit (tape speeds & motion basically). > It fails the > read/write test portion of the diagnostics (but does pass interrupt/DMA > tests so I suspect the interface boards are ok). Is anyone particularly > familiar with these beasts and can suggest a course of action? I have all > the "theory of operation" and "maintenance" manuals (as well as > schematics), > but they are two 4 inch thick manuals and a lot of it is way over my head. > Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction to at least get me > started - or better yet, anyone have a 7970E up and running that would be > willing to loan me some boards to test mine via boardswapping?? > > Thanks for any info (or condolences & empathy) anyone can provide! > > Jay West > > > > From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 2 20:06:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <20010702163321.8868.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1964.584T1800T1265617optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a >> >> single mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is >> >> truly useful. >> >> >I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken. >> >> List, what do you say? >Through this list, classiccmp@classiccmp.org. That's how I _thought_ I >first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken. I'm trying to get a confirmation from other list members. =) >> But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on the D-subs for those annoying >> DEC modular plugs? >If you wanted more TTYs than the console, perhaps. Worst case, I suppose, >you could build a level-converter board with a MAX-232 chip or 1488/1489 >or whatever (DEC also used 9636/9637 pairs IIRC) to go from the D-subs >at the edge of the board to something more standard (the 15-pin connector >does have two 3-wire serial connections - that clip-on piece converts them >to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ) RS-432 really won't do me any good. So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? >> And there's still the power question. >True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply >for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick. "Those"? > >It's a bunch of work, I'll admit, but it depends on how badly you want >a VAX and whether or not you have alternatives. I certainly wouldn't >do it if I had another VAX that worked. Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble with the DEQNA in our GPX). And running such a machine without ethernet is no fun, I'm so spoiled nowadays. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL! TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER! From curt at atari-history.com Mon Jul 2 21:05:31 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: PDF file of Canon CAT instructions.... References: <725.583T900T1504881optimus@canit.se> <000901c10297$43dc1aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000901c10364$a3390300$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Hi everyone.... I know I'm a bit slow, but here is the link to the Adobe PDF file of the handwritten instructions for using the Canon CAT, enjoy. http://www.atari-history.com/archives/pdf/misc/canon_cat.pdf Sellam, I'll bring a few VHS tapes of the Canon Cat video with me to VCF East for you... Curt From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 2 21:41:38 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Scrapyard finds In-Reply-To: <3B41070B.39D47417@tiac.net> References: <994051756.3b4006aca33f2@email.ou.edu> <3B41070B.39D47417@tiac.net> Message-ID: <994128098.3b4130e2ed6ef@email.ou.edu> Quoting Bob Shannon : > Ohhh, and RCA 703 eh? Raytheon == RCA? > What kind of shape is it in? It looked clean. That and number of address and data lights were the only things I got to before I was attacked by more hornets. I'm going back in a few days with a little cash, bug spray, tools, and a camera. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net Mon Jul 2 22:43:24 2001 From: mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... Message-ID: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> I'm getting close to my wits end ... I embarked on a project to catalog and archive all of the 5.25 inch floppies that I used on my PCjr. For archiving floppies I decided to use savedskf and loaddskf (IBM utils), which run under DOS and OS/2. I used a Pentium class machine with a true 360KB diskette drive in the machine. I specified to savedskf that I wanted raw, uncompressed binary images of the diskettes. (The raw binary images are exactly size of the diskettes (360KB), and are exactly the same as images created using Linux's 'dd' command, so I know that they are really raw binary images.) All of the diskettes (150+) read fine, and are now sitting as files on my hard drive. I decided to do some spot checking of the diskette images, so I created new diskettes from the images. First problem: loaddskf will NOT write my 360KB images to a real 360KB diskette drive. It complains about an unsupported drive type. If I let savedskf write it's meta data and do compression, then loaddskf will work. However, I want raw binary images for compatibility with Linux 'dd. I can get around it; there are lots of programs that can write the raw diskette images. (fdwrite, fdimage, rawrite) However, I am completely annoyed. Second problem: I have two PCjrs for testing, and neither of the two can read the diskettes created on my big machine. The diskettes are being created using a real 360KB diskette drive, yet they are barely readable in the two PCjrs. (They are usually completely unreadable.) I'm going to swap the 360KB diskette drive out of the Pentium class machine and put another one there. Hopefully that drive is out of alignment or the belts are loose, and that is why the other two PCjrs can't read diskettes created on it. Question 1: What the heck is up with loaddskf? Has anybody run into problems with it when dealing with raw binary images? It's supposed to work ... :-) Question 2: Is there diagnostic software for determing the alignment and RPMs of a diskette drive? I vagely remember CopyIIPC telling me the rotational speed of the diskette drive as it copied ... is there a diagnostic program that can do this? Question 3: What can I do to improve the chances of these diskettes being interchangeable between systems? I've cleaned the drive heads with a Q-Tip and isopropyl alcohol. I've also cleaned the drive rails to ensure that the head can move smoothly. Neither have helped. Thanks, Mike From allain at panix.com Mon Jul 2 23:25:33 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> Message-ID: <006401c10378$33b763a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> You suggest a lot of responses here, so I'm a little shy to respond with only this. BTW nice history lesson. > - could a Frieden do a division? Yes, on order of seconds. 2 secs for an extremely simple problem and 10 secs for a very complex one. Required use of a special third register. The algorithm was a simple one. More to the largest digit and subtract down the number until zero was reached. Every time zero is crossed, one time the divisor was added back and the next lower position of digit was then used. This process was painfully obvious just from the noise it made. P.S. Was this one of the nonbinary "biquinary" machines? I guess one of the determining factors between computer and calculator. John A. From jrussell at apmsafe.com Tue Jul 3 00:32:50 2001 From: jrussell at apmsafe.com (John Russell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: VAXen Message-ID: Hello! My coworker and I are looking for an archival server that we can collect the files we use on and we want something with character, much like a VAX. I have seen your page and was wondering if you knew of anyone selling a VAX with SCSI capability. BTW, can we put a 36 gig drive into it? Nick From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 00:43:03 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: DecStation 78 References: <725.583T900T1504881optimus@canit.se> <000901c10297$43dc1aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <000901c10364$a3390300$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Message-ID: <006801c10383$079fd940$e6b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> What is the difference between a: 1. DECstation 78 2. DEC WT-78 ("WT" apparently standing for "Word Terminal") 3. DEC VT-78 ("VT" apparently standing for "Video Terminal") -W From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 01:08:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <1964.584T1800T1265617optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > >...that clip-on piece converts them to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ) > > RS-432 really won't do me any good. Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it isn't incompatible with RS-232. > So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? I'm pretty sure the console is on the DB-9 (uVAX-II pinout, *not* PC-AT). It is RS-232. The DB-25 is a standard serial connection, but it is not the console (i.e., not OPA0: within VMS, but I forget if it's TTA0: or TTA1: or even TXAn:... it's been too long). > >True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply > >for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick. > > "Those"? Sorry... the cases that are of the style of the uVAX-2000 - I'm blanking on the proper DEC designation, or I would have mentioned it. > >It's a bunch of work... I certainly wouldn't do it if I had another VAX > that worked. > > Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose > state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble > with the DEQNA in our GPX). I have a DEQNA... haven't gotten my BA123 put back together since I got it. > And running such a machine without ethernet is no fun, I'm so spoiled > nowadays. =) True. What _I'm_ after is a VAX with ethernet, 9-track and a big disk. So far, I have the 8300 (no tape, no ethernet, but an RA-81 and a 3rd-party SDI-ESDI box w/2.4 Gb), the uVAX-II (DEQNA, and KDA-50, both uninstalled, but with a Dilog TU-80-compatible controller), and MicroVAX 2000s (with RD_series disks and ethernet). Kinda like the time-money-quality equation, I can manage two of my three goals in the same machine. Somewhat recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find out where to hang the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot). Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several gig of disk. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1176.monmouth.com Tue Jul 3 07:03:40 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1176.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> from Michael Brutman at "Jul 2, 2001 10:43:24 pm" Message-ID: <200107031203.f63C3ef08239@bg-tc-ppp1176.monmouth.com> > Question 1: What the heck is up with loaddskf? Has anybody > run into problems with it when dealing with raw binary images? > It's supposed to work ... :-) I've never used it with anything other than 3 1/2 inch drives. Perhaps it has a table of drive types it supports...and only works with them. The only way to tell is to disassemble it and see. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 3 19:56:52 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) References: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c10424$37623000$0f8953d1@jay> ----- Original Message ----- > > RS-432 really won't do me any good. > > Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it > isn't incompatible with RS-232. > > > So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? I'm going from foggy memory here - but isn't the only difference between RS232 and RS423 the voltage levels? I think RS232 is something like 0-12 volts and RS423 is 0-5 volts or something like that. As a result, it becomes a question of tolerances in the circuit. If I recall, on the General Automation Zebra Pick machines, they had RS423 ports, and we hooked up RS232 devices to them all the time. Almost never did we find an RS232 device that wouldn't work on the RS423 ports. Vague memory here. Jay West From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 3 08:38:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) References: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <002101c10424$37623000$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <001b01c103c5$684864a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Here's a quickie from Optimized Engineering : " Whereas the RS-232 standard defines a bi-directional interface between exactly two communicators, the RS-423 standard defines a uni-directional interface between one transmitter and many receivers. For example, a single computer may need to update a number of terminals that are displaying, for example, a customers order information at multiple locations throughout a warehouse. The data direction is always in one direction. RS-423 allows for distances up to 4000 feet but limits data rates to only 100 kb/sec for a maximum of ten receivers. The voltage levels are +3.6 to +6 volts to represent a binary 0 and -3.6 to -6 volts to represent a binary 1. The voltage levels are defined relative to an earth ground potential assumed to be zero volts. Consequently a difference in ground voltage levels will result in the Common Mode Voltage problem that will confuse the data values. " If you start with that, you can probably get where you need to go. This refers to some logical differences. Voltage standards overlap somewhat. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: Re: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > RS-432 really won't do me any good. > > > > Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it > > isn't incompatible with RS-232. > > > > > So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? > > I'm going from foggy memory here - but isn't the only difference between > RS232 and RS423 the voltage levels? I think RS232 is something like 0-12 > volts and RS423 is 0-5 volts or something like that. As a result, it becomes > a question of tolerances in the circuit. If I recall, on the General > Automation Zebra Pick machines, they had RS423 ports, and we hooked up RS232 > devices to them all the time. Almost never did we find an RS232 device that > wouldn't work on the RS423 ports. Vague memory here. > > Jay West > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jul 3 08:39:10 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> <006401c10378$33b763a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> >John Allain wrote: > You suggest a lot of responses here, so I'm a little shy > to respond with only this. BTW nice history lesson. Jerome Fine replies: Well, at least one person took the trouble to respond. Thank you. I don't mind taking 30 minutes (I type slowly) to provide some historical perspective if someone is actually listening. > > - could a Frieden do a division? > Yes, on order of seconds. 2 secs for an extremely simple problem > and 10 secs for a very complex one. Required use of a special third > register. The algorithm was a simple one. More to the largest digit > and subtract down the number until zero was reached. Every time > zero is crossed, one time the divisor was added back and the next > lower position of digit was then used. This process was painfully > obvious just from the noise it made. It certainly seemed MUCH longer. But I don't ever remember using one myself to solve any actual problems. I suspect that by the time a Frieden was possible (I do seem to remember they were larger than a PC desktop box is today, probably larger than an old XT desktop box - although probably smaller than a BA23 in its shell), shortly after that, handheld calculators became possible. > Was this one of the nonbinary "biquinary" machines? > I guess one of the determining factors between computer > and calculator. You have the correct idea, but I think it was called "duo-quinary" or 2 * "five states" for each character of the ten characters or decimal digits in each word. But I can't remember how "five states" were achieved. But that does mean that simple binary could be replaced if a simple way of using such an ability were ever considered. I suspect that with current concepts of RAM and having only an OFF or ON state (simple binary), we have mostly forgotten that other levels of representation were even possible, let alone used. Of course, a punched card was the perfect example - 12 holes per each of 80 columns with the lower 10 being the decimal portion and the upper three zone holes able to extend the range into alphabetic characters when two holes were punched on the card. The big problem with such equipment was the lack of parity checking, although relatively few errors ever occurred percentage wise - although the absolute number was obviously very large. The IBM keypunch almost always produced a clean hold with no chad at all when it was adjusted correctly. And with a correctly adjusted 029, it was even possible to "add" or "remove" a column from the current card by holding the correct drum - if someone did not touch type so that the rest of the incorrect card could be repeated - although I usually did a repeat of the new card just in case the holes had not been punched in their exact locations after the "unusual" operation had been done - the 029 was not as particular whereas a card reader would require almost perfect registration of the holes. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 3 08:41:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Questions about VMSTPC Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715129A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Hello everyone, An acquaintance of mine is having trouble either compiling and/or using the VMSTPC package under Alpha OpenVMS 7.1. Is anyone running VMSTPC under OpenVMA 7.1 on an Alpha? If so, would you be willing to talk to him? He's trying to read magtapes that are over 10 years old, so it's as on-topic as you can get... Thanks in advance, -doug quebbeman From lance at costanzo.net Tue Jul 3 09:20:12 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: The Seven Dwarfs Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010703072012.0224488c@costanzo.net> At 12:41 AM 7/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >Anybody remember John Dvorak's "IBM and the Seven Dwarfs" columns >in Computer Shopper a few years ago? He gave a short history of a >dwarf each month. I should have saved them... //quote IBM and the seven dwarfs was a phrase from the mid-'60s, when IBM ruled the market. By 1965 IBM had a 65.3 percent market share; the seven dwarfs shared the rest. This month's tale concerns Burroughs Corp., one of the dwarfs; the others were Sperry Rand (formerly Remington Rand), Control Data, Honeywell, General Electric, RCA, and NCR. // burroughs http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9710/cshp0040.html sperry rand http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9711/cshp0115.html ge http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9712/cshp0087.html honeywell http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9801/cshp0098.html control data http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9802/268189.html ncr http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9804/288538.html rca http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/stories/reviews/0,7171,278591,00.html feedback http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9811/352639.html From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Tue Jul 3 10:44:28 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: Chad, I've already gotten one offer for an EISA SCSI controller, but... if you'd still be willing to part with one of those Adaptecs, I do have another machine I could put a SCSI controller. (I really didn't think that so many people would be willing to part with a controller that I've had so much trouble finding. I must be looking in the wrong areas.) I can send you a money order for S/H + whatever you wanted for the controller. Micah Snodgrass 2054 Sisley Grove Rd. Palo, Ia. 52324 Chad Fernandez @classiccmp.org on 06/29/2001 12:24:42 PM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org, mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com cc: Subject: Re: Whats a reasonable collection? What is the brand is it? Is it Wide or narrow? What do you need in the way of an EISA SCSI board? I have a couple 174x series from Adaptec that aren't doing anything. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > I've got a MCA SCSI controller that I'm not using. It came to me in a box > of MCA and EISA stuff and was working when it was pulled from it's machine. > I was hoping to get an EISA SCSI controller.. Hmmm... if anyone in > interested in a swap.... > > - Micah S. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 10:54:18 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> Message-ID: <20010703155418.12337.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jerome Fine wrote: > the 029 was not as particular whereas a card reader would require almost > perfect registration of the holes. Is this a difference between optical and mechanical readers, or simply a tolerance issue? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 11:17:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010703161712.28992.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > Chad, > > I've already gotten one offer for an EISA SCSI controller, but... if > you'd still be willing to part with one of those Adaptecs, I do have > another machine I could put a SCSI controller. (I really didn't think that > so many people would be willing to part with a controller that I've had so > much trouble finding. I must be looking in the wrong areas.) I, too, have at least one EISA SCSI controller that does me no good (I happen to have an EISA motherboard or two, but want nothing to do with the configuration hassle). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 3 11:32:54 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Friden (was: IBM 604 References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> <006401c10378$33b763a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> Message-ID: <00f101c103dd$f3b0f1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I actually dusted the thing off and tried it out for probably the first time in 5 years. After figuring out how to get going (there are still 5+ knobs that I still don't know the function of) and cranking out some more ozone, here's the resullts. Oh, its about 11" cubed and 40~50 lbs dense. Needs more space for its carriage to move around. > It certainly seemed MUCH longer. One place division seems to take about 0.8 seconds and there are ten places, so it may be possible that No division will take more than 8~9 seconds, with a properly tuned machine. If you want, you can set the division place "pointer" just one digit to the left irregardless of the numbers involved and it will "count up". THIS takes much longer (EG 1 minute for a result of 400) since it has to count all the way up the hill instead of counting up each "step" and then stepping to the next digit. (example 345 is 29X that of 3+4+5 in terms of time involved). I could guess that if someone didn't want to beat his machine up quite so much he might use the slow method. Mine in its semi-maintained state will only give 100% correct answers with the slow method. Ouch. > But I can't remember how "five states" were achieved. My hunch is that duoquinary or whatever was set up to make computer math more palateable for non mathematicians (first C.S. degree = 1966? @UNC) and therefore more customers. I would be not at all surprised if the implementation was just 6 bits per digit (1,2,3,4,5,shift), it is only 80% added waste over pure binary and required less effort for people to work with. IBM was probably worried that its users were base 10 bigots and base 8 wouldn't be as popular. Hunch. I had some conversations with a 6xx user at G.E.20 years ago in case anyone wonders why the interest. John A. From owad at applefritter.com Tue Jul 3 11:36:12 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Free: Quarter Inch Cartridge/Tape DC6150 Message-ID: <20010703163612.1843@mail.earthlink.net> Citadel Quarter Inch Cartridge, DC6150, 620ft, 150MB. In plastic case and looks practically new. I don't know what it's for and I don't want it. Cost of shipping. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jul 3 11:43:18 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: commodore 2500 in Kansas City Message-ID: Looks just like the one on this webpage except the one I saw has "Commodore 2500" on the lower left corner of the face. http://amiga.emugaming.com/a2500.html Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 3 11:46:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Michael Brutman wrote: > First problem: loaddskf will NOT write my 360KB images to > a real 360KB diskette drive. It complains about an unsupported > drive type. Are the diskettes already formatted? On THAT drive? With which version of the OS? (loaddskf might be unable to recognize the drive or diskette format from other versions) > Second problem: I have two PCjrs for testing, and neither of > the two can read the diskettes created on my big machine. The > diskettes are being created using a real 360KB diskette drive, > yet they are barely readable in the two PCjrs. (They are > usually completely unreadable.) WHAT MESSAGE DO YOU GET?? Before you take hardware that may or may not be working, and change it over to other hardware that may or may not work, it's worth at least paying attention to the existing clues. Some other tests to try before changing the hardware: 1) find a disk that does read properly on the Jr. Bring it over to the AT, and do a DISKCOPY from that diskette to a VIRGIN DD (NOT HD!!!) diskette. Will the resulting diskette read on the Jr? 2) take a diskette that is readable on the Jr. Bring it over to the AT, and ERASE one file. Is the DIRectory still readable on the JR? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 3 12:08:48 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Free: Quarter Inch Cartridge/Tape DC6150 Message-ID: <34.17594369.28735620@aol.com> In a message dated 7/3/2001 11:44:41 AM Central Daylight Time, owad@applefritter.com writes: << Citadel Quarter Inch Cartridge, DC6150, 620ft, 150MB. In plastic case and looks practically new. I don't know what it's for and I don't want it. Cost of shipping. >> I don't need it, but it works in the IBM 6157 tape drive. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jul 3 12:35:00 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: Joe writes > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the >52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) > > Joe I thought Canada was a province or is it a colony? :) What does it take to upgrade from a province or a colony to be a US state? I think they meet the basic requirements 1. Beer 2. Speak English (sort of) 3. Dollars Now that I think about it, Utah may fail on the Beer part. Kick out Utah, replace with Canada. (Remember it's attempted humor) Mike From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jul 3 12:58:01 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 References: <20010703155418.12337.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B4207A8.5721AAEC@idirect.com> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Jerome Fine wrote: > > the 029 was not as particular whereas a card reader would require almost > > perfect registration of the holes. > Is this a difference between optical and mechanical readers, or simply > a tolerance issue? Jerome Fine replies: If a mechanical reader example is one that has a plate with 960 copper plated raised areas over which the card was placed, then I would also need to know how the optical mechanism functions. From what I remembered of the high speed card readers, they usually fed the card into a slot around a curved read area where I presume the light shone through. I would think that for the light reader mechanism, timing would be critical. As to the actual details, I have absolutely no idea - I just punched the cards and relied on the equipment to do the rest. Tolerance issue? Sorry, I have no idea as to the requirements, but I often found that the first attempt to add a character with an 029 resulted in a misplaced punch for just the added character - so a duplicate and a second attempt was required with the added character then having the correct column available (all the rest of the columns having been shifted by one) and thus on the second attempt it all worked correctly. What was lots of fun was duplicating a deck of cards on an 029 keypunch. A hand "shuffle" of blank cards between every original card and then setting up the "drum" so that I could alternately duplicate or release every other card while at the same time (again by hand) the output was fed into two piles. I seem to remember it took about two hours to duplicate a box of 2000 cards - 7200 seconds / 4000 cards - or about two seconds per card. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 3 13:14:58 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "Re: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)" (Jul 3, 19:56) References: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <002101c10424$37623000$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <10107031914.ZM16021@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 3, 19:56, Jay West wrote: > > Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it > > isn't incompatible with RS-232. RS423 (actually, EIA423) was designed as a compatible replacement for RS232. > > > So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? > > I'm going from foggy memory here - but isn't the only difference between > RS232 and RS423 the voltage levels? I think RS232 is something like 0-12 > volts and RS423 is 0-5 volts or something like that. As a result, it becomes > a question of tolerances in the circuit. If I recall, on the General > Automation Zebra Pick machines, they had RS423 ports, and we hooked up RS232 > devices to them all the time. Almost never did we find an RS232 device that > wouldn't work on the RS423 ports. Vague memory here. Almost any RS232 device should interoperate with almost any RS423 device. RS423 uses +/3.6V - +/-6V (IIRC) and usually operates at around +/-5V, instead of RS232's +/-5V to +/-15V, commonly operated at +/-12V. Also RS423 controls the slew rate in order to get faster signals further. It's also specified to be capable of driving several receivers (RS422 is a similar system but with differential drivers/receivers to go even faster/further). Unlike RS232, it's purely an electrical standard, intended to be used in conjunction with other standards (to get bidirectional interfaces, pinout definitions, etc). Oh, and in theory, it uses balanced receivers, such that the ground reference for the receiver is the same ground reference used for the driver; in other words the reciever signal ground pin is grounded at the transmitting end of the cable only. I've never had a problem mixing RS232 and RS423. The only possible problem I can think of is that some RS423 receiver chips are only rated for 10V inputs, but I've never damaged anything. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jul 3 13:27:20 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010703132651.00b20c70@127.0.0.1> Canada needs to dump the Metric system as well..... : ) - Matt >I thought Canada was a province or is it a colony? :) What does it take to >upgrade from a province or a colony to be a US state? >I think they meet the basic requirements >1. Beer >2. Speak English (sort of) >3. Dollars > >Now that I think about it, Utah may fail on the Beer part. Kick out Utah, >replace with Canada. > >(Remember it's attempted humor) >Mike "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 3 13:20:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jul 2, 1 10:43:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3309 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010703/c2acc7e5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 3 13:04:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <1964.584T1800T1265617optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 3, 1 02:06:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010703/41e47fb3/attachment.ksh From ljmahar at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 3 14:01:26 2001 From: ljmahar at cfl.rr.com (Linda Mahar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Free Epson JX-80 Color Printer Message-ID: <000a01c103f2$8fe80100$5eaf2141@cfl.rr.com> Free Epson JX-80 Color Printer for the cost of shipping from Satellite Beach, FL. You may contact me at ljmahar@cfl.rr.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010703/f6ccfd23/attachment.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 14:19:29 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I am sure RS432 is a typo for RS423. My experiece with the common >implementations of RS423 on DEC machines (and with the so-called RS422 on >the Mac, which is nothing of the sort...) is that it's possible to wire >up a cable that will connect it to a standard RS232 port. It may not >officially meet the stnadard, but it sure works for reasonable-length >cables. So the fact that you get DEC RS423 ports is a non-problem. On the Mac it's also easy enough to wire up adapters to go from the Mac serial ports to RS232. I've run PC modems off of Mac's like that, as well as hooked my Tandy Model 102 to my Mac to exchange data. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 3 14:51:24 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: <3B4207A8.5721AAEC@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > If a mechanical reader example is one that has a plate with 960 copper plated > raised areas over which the card was placed, then I would also need to know > how the optical mechanism functions. From what I remembered of the high > speed card readers, they usually fed the card into a slot around a curved > read area where I presume the light shone through. I would think that for the > light reader mechanism, timing would be critical. What I learned in school 35 years ago: Long ago, IBM patented the shape of the hole, and a few companies attempted to build machines with round holes! But THAT is not the issue. That patent was overturned. Then, in their ongoing efforts to mistreat the competition, IBM patented their brass roller. The IBM card reading system consisted of a brass roller and a group of metal brushes. Which brush made contact was one axis, and the rotational position of the roller was the other axis. IBM's actions backfired. They ALMOST worked - several competitors almost went under when they could no longer use a brass roller. Bizarre, stupid things were tried, such as 960 plungers in a grid. Then one company (CDC?) succeeded in what had previously been too great an engineering challenge, and came out with an optical reader (12 photocells and a roller). In addition to getting around the IBM patent, they also ended up with a card reader that could be made to run much faster than the fastest that IBM had to offer; thus bringing them back from the brink and into the lead. > Tolerance issue? Sorry, I have no idea as to the requirements, but I often > found that the first attempt to add a character with an 029 resulted in a misplaced > punch for just the added character - so a duplicate and a second attempt FIX THAT PUNCH! I have never had that problem with a properly aligned 029. But they DO need to be aligned and adjusted occasionally. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tim.mann at compaq.com Tue Jul 3 14:56:59 2001 From: tim.mann at compaq.com (tim.mann@compaq.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 2.1 Message-ID: <200107031956.f63JuxY106352@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Version 2.1 of my Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools (cw2dmk and dmk2cw) is now available at http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html. This release adds some heuristics to cw2dmk to produce cleaner output files and to autodetect RX02 encoding. Standard blurb on the tools: The Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools are software for the Catweasel ISA universal floppy disk controller. cw2dmk will read several kinds of floppy disk, some of which ordinary PC controllers have trouble with, and save them in the DMK disk image format. (DMK is a format used by the Unix TRS-80 emulator xtrs and by David Keil's TRS-80 emulator for MS-DOS.) cw2dmk does not just read TRS-80 disks; it can handle (at least) any disk written using a Western Digital 177x/179x floppy disk controller, a PC-style NEC765-compatible controller, or a Digital Equipment Corporation RX02 controller. dmk2cw will write any DMK image back to a real floppy disk, and handles the same kinds of disks as cw2dmk. The tools run on both Linux and MS-DOS. Source code is included under the GPL. Tim Mann tim.mann@compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA From optimus at canit.se Tue Jul 3 11:18:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2623.584T2850T10386231optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >...that clip-on piece converts them to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ) >> >> RS-432 really won't do me any good. >Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it >isn't incompatible with RS-232. Nope. I believe that's a differential interface, isn't it? >> So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? >I'm pretty sure the console is on the DB-9 (uVAX-II pinout, *not* PC-AT). It >is RS-232. The DB-25 is a standard serial connection, but it is not the >console (i.e., not OPA0: within VMS, but I forget if it's TTA0: or TTA1: or >even TXAn:... it's been too long). OTOH ISTR reading that it's possible to construct an adaptor plug which links two pins on the DB25 so as to enable it as the console. >> >True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply >> >for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick. >> >> "Those"? >Sorry... the cases that are of the style of the uVAX-2000 - I'm blanking >on the proper DEC designation, or I would have mentioned it. All right, those. They're pretty, but haven't showed up on the fleamarket. =) >> >It's a bunch of work... I certainly wouldn't do it if I had another VAX >> that worked. >> >> Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose >> state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble >> with the DEQNA in our GPX). >I have a DEQNA... haven't gotten my BA123 put back together since I got it. I wonder if our DEQNA troubles are due to that. There are no walls on our VAX, which I suppose could overheat the card(s). >> And running such a machine without ethernet is no fun, I'm so spoiled >> nowadays. =) >True. What _I'm_ after is a VAX with ethernet, 9-track and a big disk. So >far, I have the 8300 (no tape, no ethernet, but an RA-81 and a 3rd-party >SDI-ESDI box w/2.4 Gb), the uVAX-II (DEQNA, and KDA-50, both uninstalled, >but with a Dilog TU-80-compatible controller), and MicroVAX 2000s (with >RD_series disks and ethernet). Kinda like the time-money-quality equation, >I can manage two of my three goals in the same machine. We've got the equation graphics, speed, networking. There's graphics on the GPX and speed and networking on the 3100, but then we've got to use terminals. >Somewhat recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find out where to hang >the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot). >Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several >gig of disk. DEBNT? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 3 18:02:43 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 3 18:40:38 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <2623.584T2850T10386231optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 03, 2001 05:18:57 PM Message-ID: <200107032340.f63NedA10779@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Somewhat recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find out where to hang > >the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot). > >Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several > >gig of disk. > > DEBNT? VAXBI bus Ethernet and TK50 controller. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 3 20:31:50 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: mVax Pertec FS? References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> <006401c10378$33b763a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> <00f101c103dd$f3b0f1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004701c10429$19df0120$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Here's something I didn't think to try until now. Anybody on list have a QBus Pertec interface they want to move? I have a 9 track that is only useable from an odd machine and would like to move up to microVax for this. John A. From rickb at bensene.com Tue Jul 3 20:38:09 2001 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 and calculator history In-Reply-To: <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> Message-ID: Jerome Fine wrote, regarding the Friden mechanical calculators: > > It certainly seemed MUCH longer. But I don't ever remember using > one myself to solve any actual problems. I suspect that by the time > a Frieden was possible (I do seem to remember they were larger > than a PC desktop box is today, probably larger than an old XT desktop > box - although probably smaller than a BA23 in its shell), shortly after > that, handheld calculators became possible. A little historical elaboration. First, Friden (it doesn't have an extra 'e' in it) began making mechanical calculators as early as 1934, when the company was founded by Carl Friden. These machines required human intervention to divide. Later, in the 1940's, Friden came out with machines that were electro-mechanical and capable of automatic division. These machines proved very popular. One of the most common fully-automatic four function electromechanical calculators made by Friden was the Friden STW (see http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/fridenstw.html). These machines were made between 1949 and 1966. The peak of electro-mechanical technology was the Friden SRW and SRQ machines. The SRW could perform the standard four math functions, along with automatic square root. The SRQ could perform the same operations as the SRW, along with automatic, single-entry squaring. These machines were marketed in the 50's and 60's. The first electronic *desktop* calculator, using miniature Thyratron tubes (see http://www.geocities.com/anitaC-VIII.html), the Sumlock Comptometer Anita Mk 8, was introduced in 1961. In '63, Friden introduced the first all-transistor electronic *desktop* calculator, the Friden 130 (see http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/friden130.html). These machines were nearly the same size and weight as their electro-mechanical predecessors, *but*, they were quiet, and much faster. (Imagine the noise created in a large room full of electro-mechanical Friden calculators all running at once! -- such instances were quite common in insurance [calculating actuarial tables] and government/military [projectile trajectory work] during the 1940's). By 1966 to 1968, the trend was very clear...electronic desktop calculators were taking over. But, the machines were still rather large, heavy, and expensive [examples: Sharp Compet 20 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/comp20.html) and Wang LOCI-2 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/wangloci)]. Makers of the mechanical works of art such as Monroe, Marchant, and others (Olivetti, Olympia, etc.) had to deeply discount their mechanical machines because the electronic machines, while still more expensive, simply had advantages that made up for their higher price. These mechanical calculaor makers also had to scramble to attain expertise in design and manufacture of electronic machines, by either home-growing it (as with Friden, Olympia, Olivetti), starting out in electronic calculating from the get-go (Wang, Hewlett Packard), or finding someone else (generally in Japan) to help them (Monroe with Canon, Singer with Hitachi, and Burroughs with Sharp). As the '60s wound down, desktop electronic calculators shrunk in size and price, using small and medium-scale integrated circuits [examples being the Brother Calther 412 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/calther412), and Sharp Compet 16 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/comp16.html)]. By 1968, electronic circuitry had come to the point where sophisticated scientific desktop electronic calculators were possible, with machines like the Hewlett Packard 9100B (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/hp9100b.html) and Wang 300-series (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/wang360.html). Desktop calculators continued to advance, with HP's later 9800-series machines (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/hp9810a.html) and Wang's 700-series machines (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/wang720.html) blurring the line between the then-popular mini-computers such as the Digital Equipment PDP-8, and the Hewlett Packard 2100) and calculator. In the late 1960's, the advent of Large Scale Integration came into play, and the first 'portable' electronic calculators (though a far cry from 'pocket' calculators) were becoming available...machines such as the Sharp ELSI-8 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/sharpel-8.html), the Canon Pocketronic (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/pocketronic.html), and others. The first truly 'pocket' calculator came to market in late 1971, made by Bowmar (using a single-chip calculator LSI made by Texas Instruments). So, as you can see, there was quite a lapse of time from when Friden introduced it's first mechanical calculators in 1934, and the time of the first 'pocket' calculator. Even if you consider the 'fully automatic' four function electro-mechanical Friden calculators (which came about in the early 1940's), to the time of the Bowmar pocket calculator, there were still over 30 years of time that progressed between these developments. As we all know, with technology advancing so quickly (even back then), 30 years seems an eternity. You can see more information about a lot of different calculators at my museum at http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators Sure wish I could find one of those old IBM 604's, or a Casio 14-A relay calculator, as these machines were truly the 'mainframe' predecessor to the early desktop electronic calculators. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 3 21:02:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the > >52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) > > I thought Canada was a province or is it a colony? :) What does it take to > upgrade from a province or a colony to be a US state? > I think they meet the basic requirements > 1. Beer > 2. Speak English (sort of) > 3. Dollars > > Now that I think about it, Utah may fail on the Beer part. Kick out Utah, > replace with Canada. Oddly enough: Article XI of the United States Constitution: "Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of the United States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this Union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine States." http://www.usconstitution.net/articles.html#Article11 So I think Canada has precedence over silly little Puerto Rico. It's amazing what you can find out when you take the time to read stuff. Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have ended up with today :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 3 21:09:27 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is > called dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make > beer... More importantly, they practically invented the concept of "Medicinal Marijuana". We should replace Utah with Jamaica. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 3 21:29:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 and calculator history In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Rick Bensene wrote: > You can see more information about a lot of different calculators at > my museum at http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators I just wanted to say it is always inspiring to hear from someone who is truly a master of their preferred topic :) Rick's website is probaly the best on old calculators out there. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jul 3 22:37:35 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Scrapyard finds References: <994051756.3b4006aca33f2@email.ou.edu> <3B41070B.39D47417@tiac.net> <994128098.3b4130e2ed6ef@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B428F7F.13269B4D@tiac.net> Correction, I was thinking Raytheon. I have no idea why I wrote RCA. "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > Quoting Bob Shannon : > > Ohhh, and RCA 703 eh? > > Raytheon == RCA? > > > What kind of shape is it in? > > It looked clean. That and number of address and data lights were > the only things I got to before I was attacked by more hornets. > I'm going back in a few days with a little cash, bug spray, tools, > and a camera. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu What little I know about the Raytheon 704 was back when I was in high school I was loaded a Raytheon 704 manual for a few days. The 704 just has a sort of look to it. I imagine a 703 is similar. If your not interested in the machine yourself, where is it located, and what might it cost to acquire? From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jul 3 22:53:19 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: Message-ID: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> Ok, maybe I can drag something to the show... A few questions... If I want to exhibit a pre-1970 mini, what exactly do I need to do? Most of the info I found on the web site appeared to describe vendor tables. Are exhibit tables the same price, etc? Is it too late to exhibit something? I can can fit a working HP2114A in my Miata if I had to... From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jul 3 23:14:32 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) Message-ID: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> Hello, I've got some time off from work, so I am trying to clean up and sort through stuff. I know I already owe a few of you some boards.... I'll be getting to them shortly. Please respond directly to me at fernande@internet1.net ....this is going to two groups! Here's the new list: -2400bps external Supra Modem -Microchannel IDE adapter (Arco Electronics) -STB video card, Tseng based, ISA MVP2X, dual head -SMC Arcnet card, Microchannel -Winchester drive controller.. RLL I think, 16-bit ISA -MiniScribe RLL hard disks, Model 8425 ...2 of them -Applesoft ][ Basic Programming Reference manual -10 3M 8" floppy disks, I don't know if they are soft of hard sectored, they are marked SS, SD, R ...they are in a plstic case and are new. I bought them several years ago, as a novelty from a store going out of business. -uSpeed Fast 88, "Made in the USA and we are proud of it", I don't even know what it is... it is on a piece of angled aluminum with a small PCB, and has 4 chips along with some resistors and 4 clock crystal looking dealies. Is connects to an XT usinf a 20 connductor ribbon cable that goes to a dip socket on the MB.... wierd huh? If you what it is.... PLEASE tell me :-) -Adaptec 2742W EISA Wide SCSI card WITHOUT the slot cover.... I don't know why someone would remove it, but they did :-( I bought a generic one, but it isn't in the right postion :-( -2 Microchannel game port cards by Suncom, I bought them on Ebay, but they don't seem to work with my Reply planer. They are odd, in that the machine doen't ask for an ADF, and there is none provided. -IBM Model 9577, Bermuda Planer, nice condition, both 3.5" and 5.25" floppies, memory is probably around 24megs, has a 4xxmeg HD, has an XGA2 card -the dumb TI PC (Texas Instruments Professional Computer) that I keep on trying to give away, no keyboard or OS, and they are custom. Well, thats all for now :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 3 23:40:27 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: DEC PDPs and Music/Sound Synthesis and DEC Humor Files Message-ID: Greetings, Last night I discovered that my DEC PDPs and Music/Sound Synthesis Summary was inaccessable. If anyone's interested, this, and quite a few DEC-related humor files, can be found on my web site from: www.rddavis.org/rdd/PDP.html -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 23:31:51 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> Message-ID: <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > Ok, maybe I can drag something to the show... > > A few questions... > > If I want to exhibit a pre-1970 mini, what exactly do I need to do? Most of the > info I found on the web site appeared to describe vendor tables. > > Are exhibit tables the same price, etc? They're the same price, except Sellam pays you. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jul 4 00:13:20 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Even More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) References: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B42A5F0.E1AD117@internet1.net> Hey I found more stuff, plus I should have stated that it is up the the receiver to pay for shipping :-) -Memorex-Telex case from 85ps server, has MB, but needs processor card to make it a computer. I think it might be some sort of Intel designed server case, I think I have seen similar/same case used with some Zenith Z-servers. It looks sort of like a AT/ATX hybrid, to me. I have all the manuals/software/cables, etc for this... it is new, just been sitting. -2 Adaptec EISA 1740 narrow scsi cards -Seagate ST3541A "Cabo" (40meg IDE drive) -almost new IDE/serial/parallel card, 16-bit ISA (in the original box, RARE, L@@K :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jul 4 01:07:19 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by about ten years. Jim Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Oddly enough: > > Article XI of the United States Constitution: > > "Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of > the United States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the > advantages of this Union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the > same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine States." > > http://www.usconstitution.net/articles.html#Article11 > > So I think Canada has precedence over silly little Puerto Rico. > > It's amazing what you can find out when you take the time to read stuff. > Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very > disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have > ended up with today :( > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jul 4 01:51:20 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <200107031203.f63C3ef08239@bg-tc-ppp1176.monmouth.com> References: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010703235040.03308b30@mail.zipcon.net> the only time i've used loaddskf is to generate PS/2 reference disks downloaded from ibm on a 3 1/2 inch drive. At 08:03 AM 7/3/01 -0400, you wrote: > > Question 1: What the heck is up with loaddskf? Has anybody > > run into problems with it when dealing with raw binary images? > > It's supposed to work ... :-) > > >I've never used it with anything other than 3 1/2 inch drives. >Perhaps it has a table of drive types it supports...and only >works with them. > >The only way to tell is to disassemble it and see. > >Bill >--- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jul 4 02:07:35 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) In-Reply-To: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010704000619.009d1460@mail.zipcon.net> >-uSpeed Fast 88, "Made in the USA and we are proud of it", I don't even >know what it is... it is on a piece of angled aluminum with a small PCB, >and has 4 chips along with some resistors and 4 clock crystal looking >dealies. Is connects to an XT usinf a 20 connductor ribbon cable that >goes to a dip socket on the MB.... wierd huh? If you what it is.... >PLEASE tell me :-) it's an accellerator for 8088's IIRC. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 02:26:18 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > Ok, maybe I can drag something to the show... > > > > A few questions... > > > > If I want to exhibit a pre-1970 mini, what exactly do I > need to do? Most of the > > info I found on the web site appeared to describe vendor > tables. > > > > Are exhibit tables the same price, etc? > > They're the same price, except Sellam pays you. > Seriously, they're free although I think you have to buy an admission to the show (but it's worth it). From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 4 02:54:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of > Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by > about ten years. Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. The students open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I apparently didn't learn much. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 4 02:57:45 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > Ok, maybe I can drag something to the show... Great! > A few questions... > > If I want to exhibit a pre-1970 mini, what exactly do I need to do? > Most of the info I found on the web site appeared to describe vendor > tables. You're looking so hard that you missed the link on the VCF East page that says "Exhibit": http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/exhibit.php3 > Are exhibit tables the same price, etc? You only need to pay for a regular admission to the event. > Is it too late to exhibit something? Not at all! But I must receive exhibit registrations by July 15th (I'll let them eek by until the 20th). > I can can fit a working HP2114A in my Miata if I had to... Bring it! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 3 16:14:56 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Recently Sold on E-Bay Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512A4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Hey... Does anyone know if the "mldrew" (who had the winning $250.00 bid for that really pretty Eclipse sold on E-Bay a couple of weeks ago) is a list member or not? MLDREW, are you here? -dq From optimus at canit.se Tue Jul 3 21:40:44 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <230.585T2200T2206249optimus@canit.se> Will Jennings skrev: >Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called >dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... They do, but they brew it on ginger. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jul 4 08:54:32 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And the weed, mon. They have the bestest weed... On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called > dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rcini at optonline.net Wed Jul 4 09:09:48 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Win3.1 DDK Message-ID: I'm looking for a copy of the Windows 3.1 Device Driver Kit so that I can get the debug symbols for use with Sourcer for some spleunking that I'm doing. I have the SDK, but not the DDK. Contact me off-list if someone has it. Thanks again. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 4 09:20:20 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010704091928.01ee1220@pc> At 11:07 PM 7/3/01 -0700, Jim Arnott wrote: >Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of >Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by >about ten years. It's funny what you read when you take the time. :-) - John From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jul 4 09:48:16 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> Ok, I've submitted an application to exhibit. Can anyone who's been to a VCF event provide any tips and pointers? In addition to my vintage machine, what should I bring or prepare? From curt at atari-history.com Wed Jul 4 10:01:59 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> Message-ID: <003c01c1049a$46b1d9e0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Bob, VCF is more then just putting a computer on a table and letting people see it or type on the keyboard. Its about showing people the history and information behind the machine. Presentation and content for your display are important. If you have old magazine articles, photo's, ad's, technical documents and so forth, make a nice display with some foam board from Staples/Office depot and. Make a timeline of events, really show people whats behind that system so they can walk away knowing more, if you can photocopy stuff for handouts, thats always good too. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Questions on VCF East. > Ok, I've submitted an application to exhibit. > > Can anyone who's been to a VCF event provide any tips and pointers? > > In addition to my vintage machine, what should I bring or prepare? > From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 10:19:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <003c01c1049a$46b1d9e0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> <003c01c1049a$46b1d9e0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Message-ID: Do any of the Amiga user's on the list use either Amiga OS 3.5 or 3.9? If so, how well does it run on a stock, non-accelerated machine such as an A3000 or A4000? Is it a big enough jump over 3.1 to warrant the upgrade? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 4 11:15:12 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. The students > open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely > spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I > apparently didn't learn much. Apparently you received the same basic education, with regards to history, that, or better than, most of our politicians received. I recon that if most of our politicrats were asked what such concepts as freedom and liberty mean, or what the objectives of the founding fathers were, one would just get a response like "huh?" or "I don't think that I understand the question." *** The Truth about the 4th of July in America *** The 4th of July in America has degenerated into a big hypocritical joke. People are out celebrating just to celebrate, not giving a damn about the revolution and related ideas that they're supposedly celebrating. Our pea-brained, tax-hungry, freedom and liberty opposed politicians have the audacity to ride in 4th of July parades where foolish people cheer them on instead of booing them and tossing rotten eggs, or worse, at them. The 4th of July holiday is now all about nationalism, not patriotism, as flag waving loonies cheer on their tyrannical oppressors. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 4 11:38:54 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: Sellam Ismail wisely wrote: > Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very > disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have > ended up with today :( Well said! All that most of the present politicians in the U.S. appear to be concerned with today are taxation, oppression, lining their pockets with cash, and being pawns of business interests. Why don't they just rename the USA to something like the United Police State of America and have it over with? Back something slightly more on-topic: how many here, when giving further tought to the pros and cons of computers get the feeling that we'd all be better off if computers and some related technology didn't exist? I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt to "catch criminals." In other words, they're comparing people's faces to pictures of criminals in a database. Those seen talking with suspected criminals, or those with similar faces, become suspects as well. Very Orwellian. Why people aren't shooting at the cameras and protesting against their use, I don't know or understand. I guess that "good little citizens of the state" (foolish, senseless, people) ought not do such things. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 4 12:08:44 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) In-Reply-To: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > -uSpeed Fast 88, "Made in the USA and we are proud of it", I don't even > know what it is... it is on a piece of angled aluminum with a small PCB, > and has 4 chips along with some resistors and 4 clock crystal looking > dealies. Is connects to an XT usinf a 20 connductor ribbon cable that > goes to a dip socket on the MB.... wierd huh? If you what it is.... > PLEASE tell me :-) If you want to know what it is, then you SHOULD say WHAT the 4 chips are, both chip numbers and sizes. Are they 40 pin? And WHICH dip socket on the motherboard? a ROM socket? the CPU socket?, . . . It is probably one of the "speedup" boards, that supplants the 4.77MHz 8088 with something faster. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 12:18:46 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Looking for Vance Dereksen/Shridar Ayengar (OT, sorry) Message-ID: I hate to put this on the list but I am unable to get Sridhar Ayengar (Vance Dereksen) concerning some books he wanted. I need to hear from him in the next few days or another buyer/recipient/etc will be found. Peace...and write me... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010704/b4ac224e/attachment.html From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 12:15:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what song is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 11:15 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) -> -> -> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: -> > Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. -> The students -> > open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely -> > spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I -> > apparently didn't learn much. -> -> Apparently you received the same basic education, with regards to -> history, that, or better than, most of our politicians received. I -> recon that if most of our politicrats were asked what such concepts as -> freedom and liberty mean, or what the objectives of the founding -> fathers were, one would just get a response like "huh?" or "I don't -> think that I understand the question." -> -> *** The Truth about the 4th of July in America *** -> -> The 4th of July in America has degenerated into a big hypocritical -> joke. People are out celebrating just to celebrate, not giving a damn -> about the revolution and related ideas that they're supposedly -> celebrating. Our pea-brained, tax-hungry, freedom and liberty opposed -> politicians have the audacity to ride in 4th of July parades where -> foolish people cheer them on instead of booing them and tossing rotten -> eggs, or worse, at them. -> -> The 4th of July holiday is now all about nationalism, not patriotism, -> as flag waving loonies cheer on their tyrannical oppressors. -> -> -- -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> other animals: -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> above Nature & -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> to justify such -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -> From r.stek at snet.net Wed Jul 4 12:57:43 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Canon CAT Message-ID: <000201c104b2$d4f76f40$0301a8c0@bob> I'm a little late in jumping in this thread, but I get the digest version of the list and don't always see things immediately. I, too, have a near mint Canon Cat in original box with manuals - two manuals for the Cat and one for its daisy-wheel printer (which I do not have). I would be happy to loan the documents to any list member to copy (or better yet to make PDF files). I'd make PDF files myself, but I am already behind in promised Sol docs for Jim Battle. I realize that not many of these were made (about 20,000 IIRC), but I wasn't aware of its "collectability quotient." Anyone with an extra Altair want to trade? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 4 13:24:04 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <001501c104b6$81e96480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" Wasn't that the one by Francis Schottky? John A. From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 4 13:34:24 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010703235040.03308b30@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Geoff Reed wrote: > the only time i've used loaddskf is to generate PS/2 reference disks > downloaded from ibm on a 3 1/2 inch drive. It is functional for both 5.25" and 3.5" disks dependent upon which size and format disk the image was made from, but will not translate. It might be possible to fool it into thinking that a 3.5" was a 5.25" 1.2mb, but you might need to change it in CMOS. Hmmm! I wonder if it will work with 8"? - don > > At 08:03 AM 7/3/01 -0400, you wrote: > > > Question 1: What the heck is up with loaddskf? Has anybody > > > run into problems with it when dealing with raw binary images? > > > It's supposed to work ... :-) > > > > > >I've never used it with anything other than 3 1/2 inch drives. > >Perhaps it has a table of drive types it supports...and only > >works with them. > > > >The only way to tell is to disassemble it and see. > > > >Bill > >--- > > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > > From stefan at softhome.net Wed Jul 4 13:38:58 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Olivetti Collectors around ? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010704203646.01fbc9c0@pop.softhome.net> Hi, I was wondering if there are any Olivetti collectors around. Since I have quite a few manuals in the well known Olivetti plastic boxes double I'd like to swap for anything else. Also I have like 6 crates full of parts that came out of Olivetti machines that were made in the '70's. Let me know if you are interested. cya, Stefan. http://www.oldcomputercollection.com From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 4 13:59:50 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what song > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. I wonder if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of Maryland. Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the border that were selling the fireworks. Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be thunk by good little citizens, what? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Wed Jul 4 14:15:10 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010704121510.007e25a0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Good rescue! Why would a thermal printer need a ribbon? All the printers for my HP stuff just need thermal paper rolls. Edwin At 05:40 PM 6/30/2001 -0400, you wrote: > I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal >Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our .... >serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would >be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm >moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it > > Jeff From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jul 4 14:30:33 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. In-Reply-To: <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net>; from bshannon@tiac.net on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:48:16AM -0400 References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010704123032.B23561@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:48:16AM -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: > Can anyone who's been to a VCF event provide any tips and pointers? > > In addition to my vintage machine, what should I bring or prepare? Prepare extra time. In the organized chaos that is the VCF, things seem to take longer than you expect (well, for me, anyway). That's especially a problem if you want to exhibit and buy stuff and talk with friends and see the speeches. -- Derek From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 14:30:18 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the fireworks - they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" commercials, laws, etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see the prices for cheap crap that spits some sparks and just say the hell with it. It's quiet here in rural KY too and the local displays really suck. No more of the aerial "booms" that used to be part of the aerial displays - our wonderful city and county governments have restricted their use to just at dusk, so as not to piss off any of the people that don't give a rat's behind and want to go to sleep at 8pm and not be bothered. I have a little surprise for my neighbors...my last trip into Tennessee yielded a large box of very loud fireworks and they won't be lit until I am. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 2:00 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) -> -> -> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: -> > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and -> ask "what song -> > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. -> -> Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled -> in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. -> -> It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. -> I wonder -> if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of -> Maryland. -> -> Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap -> guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical -> politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, -> then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a -> watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on -> in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, -> bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic -> displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) -> -> Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; -> we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South -> Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West -> Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the -> border that were selling the fireworks. -> -> Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal -> fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after -> all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason -> for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give -> people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more -> vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt -> politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising -> every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be -> thunk by good little citizens, what? -> -> -- -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> other animals: -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> above Nature & -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> to justify such -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -> From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 14:33:12 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010704121510.007e25a0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: Some thermals use the heat of the printhead to blacken the thermal paper, others use the heat of the head to melt off the coating on a plastic ribbon (like the old Commodore color printers) - some can do either, such as Zebra, DataMax, etc. The serial printers that UPS accounts use to make shipping labels have thermal labels. The Zebra/Datamax types that I've worked and used work well with either a ribbon or thermal labels, mostly for barcodes. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Edwin P. Groot -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 2:15 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> -> -> Good rescue! Why would a thermal printer need a ribbon? All the -> printers for my HP stuff just need thermal paper rolls. -> Edwin -> -> At 05:40 PM 6/30/2001 -0400, you wrote: -> > I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal -> >Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our -> .... -> >serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would -> >be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm -> >moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it -> > -> > Jeff -> From cbajpai at mediaone.net Wed Jul 4 14:40:35 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great find. This has got to be one of the earliest apple printers...I've seen it is some early apple ads. Did thermal printer actually have heads? I thought the trick was in the paper. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 5:40 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our building. It's model# A9M0306 and while I've seen plenty of Imagewriter's and other Apple printers, this is the first time I've come across one of these. I almost passed it up because at first glance it appeared to be just another 80 column dot matrix. Two things that caught my eye were the old multi-color Apple logo and the serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it for the cost of shipping. Otherwise I'll likely hold on to it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 4 14:51:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <000d01c104c2$ced1b160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, a tour of Ft. McHenry would't be enough ... Keep in mind that the moron in the White House went to a private school, too, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had to be coached to recognize our national anthem right up to the time he began to attend baseball games regularly. Keep in mind, that it was in the early '50's that the line "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, a fact which wasn't lost on me, as a new imigrant, though it's likely a number of native born kids in my then 3rd grade class missed it. I believe that if folks would take religion out of politics, as we want everybody else, particularly the Iraqi's and Iranians, in the world to do, we'd be better off. I have my own beliefs but certainly don't want to be just another of those annoying twits who's got to try them out on someone else to see if they make sense. It reflects a pretty funny way of "believing" if you ask me, which I don't recommend. See below, plz Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:59 PM Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what song > > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. > > Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled > in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. > > It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. I wonder > if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of > Maryland. > > Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap > guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical > politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, > then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a > watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on > in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, > bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic > displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) > Some of those same things were legally practiced when I was aged <10. Frankly, I appreciate the quiet so far today. There'll be plenty of noise tonight when the druggies are shooting at the cops and vice-versa, and the fire department is out trying to keep the fireworks fanatics from burning down the town, and the ambulances are hauling off the injured bodies, many of which will be repaired at taxpayer expense because the same idiots who isist on using illegal fireworks aren't smart enough to know how to do it without messing somebody or something up. I'll be out in the yard with my garden hose, putting out the pop-bottle rockets on my roof, courtesy of the guy across the street, even though they're illegal anywhere in the state. It's not just illegal to discharge them, it's illegal to have them, yet folks do. Now, those same guys will holler if, say, somebody has a dog off-leash, or not wearing his collar with rabies tags ... > > Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; > we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South > Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West > Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the > border that were selling the fireworks. > It's funny how many "Law and Order" types think it's OK to thumb their noses at some laws, depending on their own preferences. > > Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal > fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after > all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason > for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give > people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more > vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt > politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising > every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be > thunk by good little citizens, what? > Such thoughts normally aren't "thunk" by persons of greater-than-room-temperature I.Q. The reason there's a right to keep and bear arms is that if private individuals don't have that right, the government will be the only one with guns, and they've already got their boots on our necks. The only requirements ought to be that in order to purchase and own a gun one must have (1) scored 101 or higher on a standard IQ test, (2) held a job for at least 3 consecutive years of his life, (3) hasn't ever committed a felony or a misdemeaner involving violence, and (4) demonstrate by regular blood, urine, or hair tests, at his own expense, that he/she doesn't use illegal chemicals, or alcohol to illegal levels. Failing any of these qualifications, even once, should permanently and forever disqualify him from going within 10 meters of a firearm not being used against him. Punishment for violation should be immediate immersion in molten iron. A monthly list of apologies should be issued for cases in which there might have been an error. Further, I believe that every citizen should be required to demonstrate his ability to read, write, and spell well enough that he could write the Declaration of Independence without spelling errors, repeat it, pronouncing each word correctly, defining each word correctly, and by paraphrasing every paragraph correctly in context. Failure to do so, even once, should result in that citizen's enrollment in a class to which he/she will be confined until they repeatedly pass these tests three times in succession, only after which they'll be allowed to eat, drink, or go to the bathroom. Not everybody feels this way, however. Some may even believe that's a good thing. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Jul 4 15:00:08 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 References: Message-ID: <3B4375C8.1ECECD5E@idirect.com> >Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > > If a mechanical reader example is one that has a plate with 960 copper plated > > raised areas over which the card was placed, then I would also need to know > > how the optical mechanism functions. From what I remembered of the high > > speed card readers, they usually fed the card into a slot around a curved > > read area where I presume the light shone through. I would think that for the > > light reader mechanism, timing would be critical. > What I learned in school 35 years ago: > Long ago, IBM patented the shape of the hole, and a few companies > attempted to build machines with round holes! But THAT is not the > issue. That patent was overturned. Jerome Fine replies: Typical of a large company to try and obtain a monopoly on an idea that is so generic. Sounds like the DEC patent on the MSCP bit. > Then, in their ongoing efforts to mistreat the competition, IBM patented > their brass roller. The IBM card reading system consisted of a brass > roller and a group of metal brushes. Which brush made contact was one > axis, and the rotational position of the roller was the other axis. IBM's > actions backfired. They ALMOST worked - several competitors almost went > under when they could no longer use a brass roller. Bizarre, stupid > things were tried, such as 960 plungers in a grid. Then one company > (CDC?) succeeded in what had previously been too great an engineering > challenge, and came out with an optical reader (12 photocells and a > roller). In addition to getting around the IBM patent, they also ended up > with a card reader that could be made to run much faster than the fastest > that IBM had to offer; thus bringing them back from the brink and into the > lead. I saw the inside of one card reader which had a platform on which the card rested while some sort of "plungers" attempted contact with 960 mountains sticking up about 1 millimetre above a bed of a non-conductive material. Each "mountain top" was the shape of the hole and probably made of copper which allowed for a contact through the hole (providing the chad had been removed). As for the CDC card reader, it definitely was MUCH faster, probably at least 10 times the speed. The feed mechanism used air to move the card though the slot past the photo cells. The rest of the CDC hardware also seemed to work much better than any IBM stuff. In addition, I seem to remember that on the UNIVAC 1107 that I used just prior to the CDC 3500 the same sort of card reader was present. What I had not realized is that the basic design of the card reader may have come from CDC? My experience with non-IBM hardware started around 1963 with the UNIVAC 1107 running EXEC II is I remember correctly - a vast improvement over what was available at the time on the IBM 7094. > > Tolerance issue? Sorry, I have no idea as to the requirements, but I often > > found that the first attempt to add a character with an 029 resulted in a misplaced > > punch for just the added character - so a duplicate and a second attempt > FIX THAT PUNCH! > I have never had that problem with a properly aligned 029. But they DO > need to be aligned and adjusted occasionally. > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com I did not explain myself properly. Since I never learned to touch type, when I wanted to add a character to a card somewhere in the middle of the existing characters, it was possible (on an 029 with the tension correctly adjusted) to hold the feed drum of the card being duplicated and allow the card that was being punched to advance normally after the key stroke had been performed. Often the tension was a little bit off and the hole punched during that operation was misplaced. If so, a third card could be punched that needed just one or two manual characters punched since the rest could be punched from the second card which had all the rest of the holes in the correct place after the one additional column had been inserted (although slightly misplaced). Note that sometimes the tech support would refuse to re-tension the 029 when this procedure would not work on the basis that the 029 was not designed for this operation. When that happened, I just fell back on the fact that the tension was incorrect and after the tech left if would always work fine for me again. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 4 15:07:32 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <001901c104c4$f5f72340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Careful now! Last year a fellow right here in the neighborhood shot his neighbor for making too much late-night fireworks noise ... it wasn't on the 4th, but you know how some morons are with their fireworks. As far as I'm concerned, you've got every right to make all the noise you want ... right up to the point where I have to listen to it. That goes for fireworks, fighting with your spouse, yelling at your kid or your dog, or playing your stereo. If I hear any of that, I file a complaint. I figure a loud motorcycle is fair target practice, and if one shoots the speakers out of a car playing its radio too loudly, the most he should be charged with is discharging a firearm into a public nuissance. If you want to swing your arms, be sure you're far enough away from your neighbor that you don't irritate him. That's why I back the mandatory concealed weapons initiative. You get one free kill at birth, can carry a gun at age 15, and don't have to tell anybody whether you've exercised your right yet. An armed society is a polite society, doncha know ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the fireworks - > they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" commercials, laws, > etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see the prices for cheap crap > that spits some sparks and just say the hell with it. It's quiet here in > rural KY too and the local displays really suck. No more of the aerial > "booms" that used to be part of the aerial displays - our wonderful city and > county governments have restricted their use to just at dusk, so as not to > piss off any of the people that don't give a rat's behind and want to go to > sleep at 8pm and not be bothered. > > I have a little surprise for my neighbors...my last trip into Tennessee > yielded a large box of very loud fireworks and they won't be lit until I am. > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 2:00 PM > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > -> > -> > -> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > -> > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and > -> ask "what song > -> > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. > -> > -> Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled > -> in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. > -> > -> It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. > -> I wonder > -> if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of > -> Maryland. > -> > -> Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap > -> guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical > -> politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, > -> then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a > -> watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on > -> in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, > -> bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic > -> displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) > -> > -> Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; > -> we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South > -> Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West > -> Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the > -> border that were selling the fireworks. > -> > -> Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal > -> fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after > -> all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason > -> for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give > -> people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more > -> vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt > -> politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising > -> every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be > -> thunk by good little citizens, what? > -> > -> -- > -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & > -> other animals: > -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're > -> above Nature & > -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma > -> to justify such > -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > -> > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 15:13:57 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thermal printers have a print head/heads but they don't impact - most are stationary. All they do is create a matrix (like dot matrix)that heats according to the signal sent to it that it (in thermal transfer types)transfers the coating of the ribbon to the paper, or (in thermal paper types) heats the paper to create the image. They are rather pricey heads too - the Datamax Prodigy head costs over $300 at most suppliers. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 2:41 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> -> -> Great find. This has got to be one of the earliest apple printers...I've -> seen it is some early apple ads. Did thermal printer actually -> have heads? I -> thought the trick was in the paper. -> -Chandra -> -> -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige -> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 5:40 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> -> -> I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal -> Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our -> building. It's model# A9M0306 and while I've seen plenty of -> Imagewriter's and other Apple printers, this is the first time I've -> come across one of these. I almost passed it up because at first -> glance it appeared to be just another 80 column dot matrix. Two -> things that caught my eye were the old multi-color Apple logo and the -> serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would -> be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm -> moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it -> for the cost of shipping. Otherwise I'll likely hold on to it. -> -> Jeff -> -- -> Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: -> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File -> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -> From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 4 14:28:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Back something slightly more on-topic: how many here, when giving > further tought to the pros and cons of computers get the feeling that > we'd all be better off if computers and some related technology didn't > exist? I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are You can make the same argument for guns, now can't you? The fact is, lambasting any technology because of what it can be used for is attacking the problem from the wrong end. The real concern should be ensuring that all technology is used in a responsible manner, whether it be a gun or a camera. The people we elect to be in charge of making these decisions are the ones who are accountable, meaning that we are accountable. The trouble is, in a democracy (which technical, we are not...we are a constitutional republic, or at least we're supposed to be) even the morons who would trade their inalienable rights for a false sense of security get to vote. So anything short of violent revolution will be inadequate to remedies the ills we suffer at the hands of our collective government. Remember, at the same time, we can use computers to counter the threats to civil liberties. Computers don't track people. People track people. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 4 14:32:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the > fireworks - they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" > commercials, laws, etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see > the prices for cheap crap that spits some sparks and just say the hell > with it. It's quiet here in rural KY too and the local displays really > suck. No more of the aerial "booms" that used to be part of the aerial > displays - our wonderful city and county governments have restricted > their use to just at dusk, so as not to piss off any of the people > that don't give a rat's behind and want to go to sleep at 8pm and not > be bothered. You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set fire to their neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county councils that enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 4 15:50:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1136.585T2700T13106277optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: > Do any of the Amiga user's on the list use either Amiga OS >3.5 or 3.9? If so, how well does it run on a stock, non-accelerated >machine such as an A3000 or A4000? Is it a big enough jump over 3.1 >to warrant the upgrade? It really doesn't add much overhead compared to 3.1. It occupies more space, though not necessarily more than the heavily patched systems most 3.0/3.1 people run. Is it a big enough jump? Well, certainly a big jump from the stock 3.1 installation, but it really is a 3.x system with a lot of bells and whistles. I certainly like the new HDToolBox, in case you run drives over 4 GB, and over-all, you're spared from the headache of considering whayt patches to run, since all such functionality is in the box from the beginning. And if you run 3.9, you get media players and a nice TCP/IP stack which otherwise cost money. OTOH, it's a lot more fun to run once you've got a graphics card. But so is everything. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Netiquette: it's not just a good idea, there's actually an RFC about it! For the full details, check out . From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 16:00:00 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <1136.585T2700T13106277optimus@canit.se> References: <1136.585T2700T13106277optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Thanks Iggy, I knew you'd reply to my query! >It really doesn't add much overhead compared to 3.1. It occupies more space, >though not necessarily more than the heavily patched systems most 3.0/3.1 >people run. >Is it a big enough jump? Well, certainly a big jump from the stock 3.1 >installation, but it really is a 3.x system with a lot of bells and whistles. >I certainly like the new HDToolBox, in case you run drives over 4 GB, and >over-all, you're spared from the headache of considering whayt patches to run, >since all such functionality is in the box from the beginning. >And if you run 3.9, you get media players and a nice TCP/IP stack which >otherwise cost money. Thanks, as I was concerned about all the stuff they added to it slowing it down. It's likely a stock A3000 would have trouble with some of the media players, such as MP3, but that's ok. It'll be interesting to see how the included TCP/IP stack compares to Miami. Until I moved off of Amiga's for my main system, I had Miami, YAM, Amirc, the works running on it and was a registered user of all of them. >OTOH, it's a lot more fun to run once you've got a graphics card. But so is >everything. It looks like I'm finally getting another A3000 with a GVP Spectrum, which is the setup I had back in '94/95 until I damaged it while messing with getting an A3640 working in it. I always liked the Spectrum, even when using the EGS RTG software it shipped with, which is what I used with it even after I moved it to an A4000. In '99 I sold my A4000 and switched to Mac's for my main system but have continued to miss the A3000. In many ways, it was a much better machine than the A4000. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jul 4 16:17:02 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: <3B4375C8.1ECECD5E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <200107042117.QAA01576@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > As for the CDC card reader, it definitely was MUCH faster, probably > at least 10 times the speed. The feed mechanism used air to move the > card though the slot past the photo cells. The rest of the CDC hardware > also seemed to work much better than any IBM stuff. In addition, I seem > to remember that on the UNIVAC 1107 that I used just prior to the CDC > 3500 the same sort of card reader was present. What I had not realized > is that the basic design of the card reader may have come from CDC? > My experience with non-IBM hardware started around 1963 with the > UNIVAC 1107 running EXEC II is I remember correctly - a vast > improvement over what was available at the time on the IBM 7094. > I think (i dont have the book handy) that in "A few good men from Univac" the author discusses some of the CDC card reader history. Can someone who has a copy hand verify this? -Lawrence LeMay From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 4 16:28:18 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate good sense." It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only industrialized country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect those who are STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 1:32 PM Subject: OT: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the > > fireworks - they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" > > commercials, laws, etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see > > the prices for cheap crap that spits some sparks and just say the hell > > with it. It's quiet here in rural KY too and the local displays really > > suck. No more of the aerial "booms" that used to be part of the aerial > > displays - our wonderful city and county governments have restricted > > their use to just at dusk, so as not to piss off any of the people > > that don't give a rat's behind and want to go to sleep at 8pm and not > > be bothered. > > You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set fire to their > neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county councils that > enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 4 12:34:05 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010704213015.JDZN2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Chandra Bajpai" > To: > Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:40:35 -0400 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Great find. This has got to be one of the earliest apple printers...I've > seen it is some early apple ads. Did thermal printer actually have heads? I > thought the trick was in the paper. > -Chandra Also the horrid IBM quietwriter series I, II and III. If the head wear is excessive also worn brake pincher, the ribbon will snap on these IBM quietwriter series. Prints out laser-quality text and graphics especially on III. The speed I spell " SLOW" and table is quake hazard for anything sitting on it where that printer is placed. :-) Yesterday I saw 8 color text IBM dot matix wide printer w/ parallel interface. Anything special about it and driver available on most OSes? What about finding 4 color ink ribbon cartridges? Cheers, Wizard From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 16:35:35 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <005701c104d1$4328ae20$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set fire to their > neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county councils that > enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > I like the approach used in Missouri, you can buy anything you want, you just can't fire it off in the state. Right. I still have a few bricks of crackers from my last trip there, at least for a few more hours. From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 4 12:49:00 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Looking for Vance Dereksen/Shridar Ayengar (OT, sorry) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010704214509.LNU216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: "Classic computers message group" > Subject: Looking for Vance Dereksen/Shridar Ayengar (OT, sorry) > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:18:46 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I hate to put this on the list but I am unable to get Sridhar Ayengar (Vance > Dereksen) concerning some books he wanted. I need to hear from him in the > next few days or another buyer/recipient/etc will be found. > > Peace...and write me... > Helloooo Shridar....? Ditto... Waiting for his email return on our deal we're working on. No offense intended, just a reminder. Cheers, Wizard From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 16:53:22 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: <20010704213015.JDZN2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: The Quiet Writers are daisy wheel typewriters with a keyboard though, totally different than most thermals. The ribbon is a carbon film and uses the pressure to make the carbon separate from the carrier film. The mention of quake and slow are relative to the type of printer that they are - I've seen worse dot matrix (IBM 5224 and 5225). -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:34 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> -> -> > From: "Chandra Bajpai" -> > To: -> > Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:40:35 -0400 -> > Importance: Normal -> > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> -> > Great find. This has got to be one of the earliest apple -> printers...I've -> > seen it is some early apple ads. Did thermal printer actually -> have heads? I -> > thought the trick was in the paper. -> > -Chandra -> -> Also the horrid IBM quietwriter series I, II and III. If the head -> wear is excessive also worn brake pincher, the ribbon will snap on -> these IBM quietwriter series. Prints out laser-quality text and -> graphics especially on III. The speed I spell " SLOW" and table is -> quake hazard for anything sitting on it where that printer is placed. -> :-) -> -> Yesterday I saw 8 color text IBM dot matix wide printer w/ parallel -> interface. Anything special about it and driver available on most -> OSes? What about finding 4 color ink ribbon cartridges? -> -> Cheers, -> -> Wizard -> From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 4 16:55:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) (Richard Erlacher) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15171.37054.634559.948794@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 4, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate good > sense." > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only industrialized > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect those who are > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from them. Yes, fighting Darwin all the way. I HATE that. Protect and coddle the stupid so they can annoy the hell out of the rest of us, and dilute the GOOD genes in the process. ARGH! -Dave McGuire From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 4 13:17:06 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: References: <20010704213015.JDZN2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010704221316.JLIO2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: > Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:53:22 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > The Quiet Writers are daisy wheel typewriters with a keyboard though, > totally different than most thermals. The ribbon is a carbon film and uses > the pressure to make the carbon separate from the carrier film. The mention > of quake and slow are relative to the type of printer that they are - I've > seen worse dot matrix (IBM 5224 and 5225). Not that kind of impacters. This print head is removeable has lot of electrical contact pads uses finely spaced traces that presses on the carbon-based ribbon. The short circuits it creates allows print to leave behind on paper because heat melts the ribbon. Whole "print head" thing has 2 motors, one to keep ribbon moving in short bursts, one to move the head in and leave there (during printing) That motor also lifts printhead off during non-printing also for reservsing back to start of line or to print again on specific areas. This motor doesn't only moves the head, it also unpinches both roller ribbon pinch and the brake as well when head is lifted. Printing mechanicals is *complex* and heavy that why printer lurches back and forth while it whips the assembly back and forth in 1 or 2 inches on certain characters before going on one direction then lifts off, advance the paper, whip the thing back to the start of new line to print. It prints one direction only. The contact pads is appox 50 by guess. The daisy wheels doesn't leave laser-quality characters. This one did which is amazing at that time back then. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 4 15:42:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) In-Reply-To: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jul 4, 1 00:14:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1315 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010704/eb48efc1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 4 15:37:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: IBM 604 and calculator history In-Reply-To: from "Rick Bensene" at Jul 3, 1 06:38:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1409 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010704/58a453bc/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 4 17:53:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3024.585T900T14334861optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>It really doesn't add much overhead compared to 3.1. It occupies more space, >>though not necessarily more than the heavily patched systems most 3.0/3.1 >>people run. Is it a big enough jump? Well, certainly a big jump from the >>stock 3.1 installation, but it really is a 3.x system with a lot of bells >>and whistles. I certainly like the new HDToolBox, in case you run drives >>over 4 GB, and over-all, you're spared from the headache of considering >>whayt patches to run, since all such functionality is in the box from the >>beginning. And if you run 3.9, you get media players and a nice TCP/IP stack >>which otherwise cost money. > Thanks, as I was concerned about all the stuff they added to >it slowing it down. It's likely a stock A3000 would have trouble >with some of the media players, such as MP3, but that's ok. It'll be >interesting to see how the included TCP/IP stack compares to Miami. >Until I moved off of Amiga's for my main system, I had Miami, YAM, >Amirc, the works running on it and was a registered user of all of >them. I hope you've managed to scrounge enough ZIPs to accomodate the OS and applications. >>OTOH, it's a lot more fun to run once you've got a graphics card. But so is >>everything. > It looks like I'm finally getting another A3000 with a GVP >Spectrum, which is the setup I had back in '94/95 until I damaged it >while messing with getting an A3640 working in it. I always liked >the Spectrum, even when using the EGS RTG software it shipped with, >which is what I used with it even after I moved it to an A4000. In >'99 I sold my A4000 and switched to Mac's for my main system but have >continued to miss the A3000. In many ways, it was a much better >machine than the A4000. Well, the A3000 is prettier both externally and internally, and most importantly, it's OT, which the A4000 (thankfully) isn't. The A4000 is more spacious inside, and requires less screwing around (with a screwdriver). The Spectrum is no speed demon, but everything's better than the onboard graphics. You'll probably not run EGS, though, but either CyberGFX or Picasso96. The TCP/IP stack of 3.5 is just a demo of Miami, whereas Genesis, a new version of AmiTCP, is included in full in 3.9. I own a registered Genesis but since it's just a GUI shell for AmiTCP 4.5, I'm still running my old pirate copy of 4.5. =) I might add that I still run 3.0, though I've upgraded the Kickstart to 3.1 in anticipation of a possible upgrade. I just haven't bothered to upgrade since my system is just as I like it. Perhaps when I've got some money to spare... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. But a graphical client/server model that slices the interface down some arbitrary middle is like Solomon following through with his child-sharing strategy. The legs, heart, and left eye end up on the server, the arms and lungs go to the client, the head is left rolling around on the floor, and blood spurts everywhere. Don Hopkins - The Unix hater's handbook; The X-Windows disaster From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 4 19:51:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 Message-ID: <885.586T400T1113997optimus@canit.se> Upon reading http://www.breezer.demon.co.uk/spec/tech/ay-3-8912.html, I encountered the following: --- The AY-3-8910/8912 (and derivatives) has found its way into a variety of home computers and games consoles including the following: Sinclair ZX Spectrum 128/+2/+3 Amstrad CPC 464/664/6128 Mattel Intellivision BBC Micro Atari ST Sega Master System --- Well, it's true WRT the Speccy, the Ammy (I suppose you can't say that =) and the ST, but didn't we establish a while back that the BBC and Master System chip, the SN76489, while superficially similar, was a different construction. And as for the Intellivision, perhaps is it just due to the limited system in general, lack of space, or perhaps a slow driving clock, but with the sub- mediocre sound of the INTV, it seems like such a waste to employ a more adanced sound generator such as the AY, -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jul 4 19:12:09 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <230.585T2200T2206249optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001f01c104e7$22760180$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Will Jennings" Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:10 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > Will Jennings skrev: > > >Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called > >dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... In that case we are ALREADY the 52nd state.... Cheers Geoff in Oz From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jul 4 19:21:04 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Erlacher" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate good > sense." No, but it doesn't stop the government from trying. > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only industrialized > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect those who are > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from them. Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be doing something. cheers Geoff in Oz From mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net Wed Jul 4 19:28:35 2001 From: mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... References: <200107041712.MAA33429@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B43B4B3.7A63DBAD@bresnanlink.net> Thank you everybody for the suggestions. Here is how things finally shook out. The Pentium machine had a real, 360KB drive in it borrowed from a PCjr. (I had stated that in the original note.) Formatting issues between 1.2MB drives and 360KB drives were not part of the equation. I tried formating the diskettes (double density, double sided) in both the 360KB drive on the Pentium and the 360KB drive in the PCjr. This did not seem to make a difference. Diskettes formatted and written by the Pentium machine were usually unreadable in the PCjr. In a few tests they were also unreadable in a second PCjr. Sometimes I could get a directory or copy a file, but usually I was getting the familiar "Abort, Retry, Ignore." A diskette "refresh" utility was reporting lots of read errors on sectors, some recoverable and some not. Diskettes written by the Jr were readable on the Pentium. Old diskettes written years ago were readable everywhere. (These were written by yet a different drive.) I deduced that since the Pentium 360KB drive was writing the diskettes and two PCjrs couldn't read them, that it must be the Pentium 360KB drive causing the problems. So I swapped it out and put a 1.2MB drive in it's place. I know about the head width problems, but would you believe that one of the Jrs was able to read diskettes created on the 1.2MB drive? To make a long story short, the 360KB drive in the Pentium was ok, the 1.2MB drive can write 360KB diskettes that are readable on the PCjr, and one of the PCjr drives is flakey. I think I was unlucky in my early testing when both Jrs balked at the diskettes created on the Pentium. One of the Jrs drives is know known to be bad, one is confirmed good, and the 360KB drive on the Pentium is good, yet a diskette created on the Pentium caused read errors on both Jrs, which led me to suspect the wrong drive. I've not been able to reproduce that error again. Now for the bad drive ... If I clean the rails with alcohol and lube them with silicone spray, it does a slightly better job of reading foreign (i.e.: not its own) diskettes. Based on this, methinks that the head is not being positioned exactly where it should be. However, those rails are pretty clean now and the problems persist. It's an old Qume drive, 1/2 height. I'm saving the drive for now, but a flakey 5.25 inch drive isn't of much use. And I've also learned that DOS 2.1 does NOT tolerate diskette errors during the boot process. :-) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 4 19:37:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the fireworks - >they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" commercials, laws, >etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see the prices for cheap crap >that spits some sparks and just say the hell with it. It's quiet here in >rural KY too and the local displays really suck. No more of the aerial My dad used to tell me about 4th of July when he was a kid. They used to play "war" games with roman candles, and not some little sissy version, but 2 ft long tubes that would shoot a fireball quite a distance. Everybody with a gun would fire off a few patriotic rounds too. Now to have a little fun you have to go to Iraq or something. From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 20:05:04 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <3024.585T900T14334861optimus@canit.se> References: <3024.585T900T14334861optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >I hope you've managed to scrounge enough ZIPs to accomodate the OS and >applications. It supposedly has 14meg total, which was enough to do most anything I wanted to before. I was never one to run a bunch of Magic WB stuff and whatnot. It'll be cool having an ECS machine to run all the old Eric Schwartz animations off of his CD though! A lot of them didn't like AGA on the A4000 and neither my A1000 or A500 have enough RAM for a lot of them. >The A4000 is more spacious inside, and requires less screwing around (with a >screwdriver). One thing that always annoyed me about the A4000 is that they didn't make the 5-1/4" drive bay just a fraction of an inch longer so that most any drive would fit properly. That and the horrid RAM access times. The A4000 also needed the A3000's scandoubler. The A3000's problems were primarily due to chip revisions and once those were updated, the machine was quite solid while the A4000's design was compromised in a number of places. Given that it and the A1200 have been in production so long, I would imagine there are a great many more of them around. >The Spectrum is no speed demon, but everything's better than the onboard >graphics. You'll probably not run EGS, though, but either CyberGFX or >Picasso96. Pretty much everything I did though ran well enough under EGS. I didn't have the need for anything that was Cybergfx-specific. I used it because it came with the board, which was in production at the time under the original GVP. It being a ZIII board, it's faster than a good many other graphics boards out there, including the more popular Picasso II. I guess if I wanted speed, I'd go with something like the Cybervision or Retina boards. Does OS 3.5 or 3.9 ship with RTG software or do you still have to get it seperately? Still, I like the way the Spectrum passes through the onboard video modes. >The TCP/IP stack of 3.5 is just a demo of Miami, whereas Genesis, a new >version of AmiTCP, is included in full in 3.9. I own a registered Genesis but >since it's just a GUI shell for AmiTCP 4.5, I'm still running my old pirate >copy of 4.5. =) The last time I ran AmiTCP was version 4 and it was terrible setting it up. None of the graphical front ends worked like they were said to either. I'll likely go back to Miami then. Thankfully, I just found a disk that purports to be my backup registration disk for various Amiga programs! I should still have my WB 3.1 disks here somewhere...I'll just need to get the ROMs. It's sad to see how many of the old 3rd party companies have gone under or exited the Amiga area. I've got like 3 years of 'Amazing Amiga', right up until it went under, and the last issue of 'Amiga World' around here in a box somewhere. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 4 21:04:48 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RA90/RA81 drives available Message-ID: <15171.52032.644624.279490@phaduka.neurotica.com> Anyone interested in some RA90s? I have eight available for pickup in Laurel, MD. I also have a pair of RA81s in a short rack. Email me off-list to arrange pickup. First come (well, first email), first served. -Dave McGuire From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Jul 5 01:13:40 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all citizens vote. I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it required that you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? Jim Davis. Geoff Roberts wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > good > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) > In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a > bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. > > Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth > of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be > doing something. > > cheers > > Geoff in Oz From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 4 22:16:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5172.586T1950T2565287optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>I hope you've managed to scrounge enough ZIPs to accomodate the OS and >>applications. > It supposedly has 14meg total, which was enough to do most >anything I wanted to before. I was never one to run a bunch of Magic >WB stuff and whatnot. It'll be cool having an ECS machine to run all >the old Eric Schwartz animations off of his CD though! A lot of them >didn't like AGA on the A4000 and neither my A1000 or A500 have enough >RAM for a lot of them. Well, you can't go much further than that on the mobo IIRC. >>The A4000 is more spacious inside, and requires less screwing around (with a >>screwdriver). > One thing that always annoyed me about the A4000 is that they >didn't make the 5-1/4" drive bay just a fraction of an inch longer so >that most any drive would fit properly. That and the horrid RAM >access times. The A4000 also needed the A3000's scandoubler. The >A3000's problems were primarily due to chip revisions and once those >were updated, the machine was quite solid while the A4000's design >was compromised in a number of places. Given that it and the A1200 >have been in production so long, I would imagine there are a great >many more of them around. You mention the points which IMO makes the A3000 prettier. The A4000, for all its shortcomings, is somewhat easier to handle, though. You can fit a CD-ROM internally, although it's cramped. At the usergroup, we had one A4k with a CD- ROM protruding some cm out of the bay. Not a pretty sight. =) Similarly, the RAM may be hideously slow, but at least it uses SIMMs. Getting hold of ZIPs is a bloody pain in the neck (are there any list members out there who happen to have any to spare? =). The A1200 is common, but it is essentially a closed architecture. Unless you're adventurous and put it in a tower with a slot card and all that, but it still turns out as a mediocre imitation of a real big-box machine. Still, given a PCI backplane, it turns out a rather cheap solution compared to a similarly equipped Zorro Amiga. >>The Spectrum is no speed demon, but everything's better than the onboard >>graphics. You'll probably not run EGS, though, but either CyberGFX or >>Picasso96. > Pretty much everything I did though ran well enough under >EGS. I didn't have the need for anything that was Cybergfx-specific. >I used it because it came with the board, which was in production at >the time under the original GVP. It being a ZIII board, it's faster >than a good many other graphics boards out there, including the more >popular Picasso II. I guess if I wanted speed, I'd go with something >like the Cybervision or Retina boards. Does OS 3.5 or 3.9 ship with >RTG software or do you still have to get it seperately? Still, I >like the way the Spectrum passes through the onboard video modes. The fact that the newer OSes ship with either RTG system mention above is why I said you'd probably run those instead of EGS. Especially if you'd like to run new software, though I'm not familiar with EGA myself. Didn't it deviate somewhat from the usual WB look? ISTR screenshots in mags with gadgets which seemed to come from a Motif system. I didn't know that the Spectrum was a ZIII board, and thought it was very similar to the Picasso II in performance. I run a Retina ZIII myself, and while it doesn't put up much of a match against newer boards, it is competent enough. Certainly better than the PII. >>The TCP/IP stack of 3.5 is just a demo of Miami, whereas Genesis, a new >>version of AmiTCP, is included in full in 3.9. I own a registered Genesis >>but since it's just a GUI shell for AmiTCP 4.5, I'm still running my old >>pirate copy of 4.5. =) > The last time I ran AmiTCP was version 4 and it was terrible >setting it up. None of the graphical front ends worked like they >were said to either. I'll likely go back to Miami then. Thankfully, >I just found a disk that purports to be my backup registration disk >for various Amiga programs! I should still have my WB 3.1 disks here >somewhere...I'll just need to get the ROMs. Version 4 had an Installer-based setup program which worked fine enough for me when I was a newbie (once I had learned what to input where =). Genesis has a full MUI GUI which I don't think is any worse than Miami, although I've always avoided that stack (first due to its dependence on MUI, then because I've grown to like AmiTCP). But since you've got a Miami licence, go ahead and use that if you like. If you're used to UNIX systems, you'll feel right at home with AmiTCP, since it essentially is half a BSD. =) > It's sad to see how many of the old 3rd party companies have >gone under or exited the Amiga area. I've got like 3 years of >'Amazing Amiga', right up until it went under, and the last issue of >'Amiga World' around here in a box somewhere. Yes. BTW, you do have a CD-ROM, don't you? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a/AmigaOS 3.0. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jul 4 21:38:29 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) In-Reply-To: <001901c104c4$f5f72340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010704223829.00ef34a8@obregon.multi.net.co> At 02:07 PM 7/4/01 -0600, Dick wrote: >Careful now! . .snip >That's why I back the mandatory concealed weapons initiative. You get one free >kill at birth, can carry a gun at age 15, and don't have to tell anybody whether >you've exercised your right yet. An armed society is a polite society, doncha >know ... > >Dick \begin{criticism} Oh my god... this must be one of those``only in the US'' things... Really, the US stopped evolving (for the worse) as a society during the cowboy era... \end{criticism} I lived on and off in the US for 10+ years. I have been exposed to american culture since I was a child. Yet, it is still difficult for me to grasp the reason for so much cultural inertia in otherwise such sensible people. I have always thought that sensible people should be able to liberate themselves from culture and build a broader view of the world. Example: Jefferson wanted The People to be able to own guns so that the government would be afraid of The People; they would bear equal firepower. Times have changed. The People can't own nuclear weapons, and the government sure isn't afraid, because while voting can change the politicians' faces, it can't change the system. There are many people in the US who can see through all of this (take Chomsky, or even better, Benjamin Garber). But those are not the guys that CNN chooses to interview... Enough ranting... Back on topic: The Convergent Systems machines (NGEN series) that I found were sold by .... Datapoint!!! The circuit boards inside are clearly marked "Convergent"... but the user and service manuals clearly state "Datapoint 1200". I found one "CTOS boot and HD install disk" and one "CTOS HD System files" disk, but there is an empty floppy disk sleeve in the pack. Now, these floppy disks were dumped^H^H^H^H^H^Hstored under very adverse circumstances: fluctuating humidity and very fine sawdust (the university's carpentry shop was located next door). But I don't see any fungal growths. Still, I think I may have only one chance at reading and archiving the floppies. What method/hardware/software do you people suggest for the job? By the way, Tony would be anything but indifferent to the (dis)"service manuals"; they are essentially wintel-like step by step guides to decide which module/card to swap/replace... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From terryc at woa.com.au Wed Jul 4 22:39:53 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3B43E189.B1EA623D@woa.com.au> Jim Davis wrote: > > you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? No - there is no way they can know who wrote "fsck all politicians" on an otherwise empty ballot paper - is there? and in Aus you may also find your vote is still legal even if you vote different from intructions. I.e. in some elections, all you need to do is vote 1 and only one. In other cases, they have specifically outlawed (= your vote is not counted). I am reminded with all the USA 4th July discussion of the Cobb cartoon for the USA bicentennial year. Background is a row of missiles, each number with a differeent year pre and post, but for 1976(?), the missile was replace with fireworks. The caption - now is a time to celebrate your rights, not exercise them. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jul 4 21:43:48 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <15171.37054.634559.948794@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010704224348.00ef75b8@obregon.multi.net.co> At 05:55 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: > Yes, fighting Darwin all the way. I HATE that. Protect and coddle >the stupid so they can annoy the hell out of the rest of us, and >dilute the GOOD genes in the process. ARGH! > > -Dave McGuire C'mon, Dave, I am sure that you realize that Darwin's idea of evolution has not been valid for our species for several millenia now... -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jul 4 21:54:13 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010704225413.00ef7dd8@obregon.multi.net.co> This is actually a great idea, provided that "none of the above" is an option in the ballot and that the winner is elected by simple majority with the "none of ..." votes counted. I wonder if the script writers for that Richard Pryor's movie actually read something about voting theories. By the way, one of the defects in the US system is that a "duopoly" of parties can stay in the power even if the simple majority doesn't like it. At 11:13 PM 7/4/01 -0700, you wrote: >I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all citizens vote. >I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it required >that >you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? >Jim Davis. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 4 23:09:49 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > You can make the same argument for guns, now can't you? The fact is, > lambasting any technology because of what it can be used for is attacking > the problem from the wrong end. That's how I was hoping someone would reply! :-) Please note that I was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote that. It's not the computers, guns, cars, knives or rocks that are dangerous, but the people who use them for harmful purposes. If we didn't have computers, they'd surely find a way to do something equally bad, would then not? > The real concern should be ensuring that all technology is used in a > responsible manner, whether it be a gun or a camera. The people we elect Indeed; well said. > to be in charge of making these decisions are the ones who are > accountable, meaning that we are accountable. The trouble is, in a > democracy (which technical, we are not...we are a constitutional > republic, or at least we're supposed to be) even the morons who would Yes, supposedly. > trade their inalienable rights for a false sense of security get to vote. > So anything short of violent revolution will be inadequate to remedies the > ills we suffer at the hands of our collective government. Yes, alas; it does appear that way. If only enough people would wake up to what's going on and send clear messages to their politicians, through effigies, letters, telephone calls, protests, shouting at them when they enter and leave their offices, and voting... the only problem is that at the polls, our choice is often limited to the lesser of two evils. There are, at least thus far, many legal, and non-violent, ways to annoy, anger, intimidate and frighten our elected officials who are harming us---not for the purpose of harming them, but just to wake them up to reality and let then know that they need to clean up their acts. To quote Benjamin Franklin on this subject: "Those people who would surrender some of their freedoms to obtain safety deserve neither freedom nor safety." (1776) I remember when a certain politician showed up at a local polling place a little over a decade ago. When he selected me as the first citizen to speak to upon getting out of his limousine, he made a little mistake. Right away, I put him on the spot about why I wouldn't vote for him, such as his being for high taxes, etc. Hey, why be respectful of the office of someone who doesn't earn my respect? The funny thing was, his guards sort of turned their backs as said what I had to say to him, not shooing me away. Anyway, he got so mad that he got right back into his limo, didn't attempt any more campaigning there, and gave me the "finger," as his car left the parking lot. :-) If more people would do such things, just think of the changes that we could make. > Remember, at the same time, we can use computers to counter the threats to > civil liberties. Yes; excellent point Sellam! > Computers don't track people. People track people. True. If, alas, we didn't have so many apathetic people, it would be much easier to stop those people who use technology for "big brotherish," Orwellian, purposes. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 4 23:51:59 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) (Carlos Murillo) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3.0.2.32.20010704224348.00ef75b8@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <15171.62063.606197.718665@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 4, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > Yes, fighting Darwin all the way. I HATE that. Protect and coddle > >the stupid so they can annoy the hell out of the rest of us, and > >dilute the GOOD genes in the process. ARGH! > > C'mon, Dave, I am sure that you realize that Darwin's idea of evolution > has not been valid for our species for several millenia now... I can hope, can't I? -Dave McGuire From red at bears.org Thu Jul 5 00:01:53 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Olivetti Collectors around ? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010704203646.01fbc9c0@pop.softhome.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Stefan wrote: > I was wondering if there are any Olivetti collectors around. Since I have > quite a few manuals in the well known Olivetti plastic boxes double I'd > like to swap for anything else. Do you have anything for this verdammte P6060? I can't find out a thing about it other than what's obvious from looking at it. ok r. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 01:13:15 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > You can make the same argument for guns, now can't you? The fact is, > > lambasting any technology because of what it can be used for is attacking > > the problem from the wrong end. > > That's how I was hoping someone would reply! :-) Please note that I > was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote that. It's not the > computers, guns, cars, knives or rocks that are dangerous, but the > people who use them for harmful purposes. If we didn't have > computers, they'd surely find a way to do something equally bad, would > then not? > Ask a question about a DECstation 78, you get silence. But just mention guns, and everyone's got something to say. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 5 01:48:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010704223829.00ef34a8@obregon.multi.net.co> References: <001901c104c4$f5f72340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704234813.02d99ae0@209.185.79.193> At 10:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >Times have changed. No they haven't. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 5 01:34:27 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. In-Reply-To: <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704233207.02d99460@209.185.79.193> Write up a description of your exhibit, any history about the specific machines, and how they were used. Leave copies of these for those times when you're spending all your money in the swap meet portion :-). Winning exhibits (did you know there were prizes?) generally cover some area in depth, can be an entire line, or a particular example of something. If you can run your system put up a schedule of when you will be available to demonstrate it. --Chuck At 10:48 AM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >Ok, I've submitted an application to exhibit. > >Can anyone who's been to a VCF event provide any tips and pointers? > >In addition to my vintage machine, what should I bring or prepare? From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 5 01:41:09 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704233559.02d982b0@209.185.79.193> >The 4th of July in America has degenerated into a big hypocritical >joke. People are out celebrating just to celebrate, not giving a damn >about the revolution and related ideas that they're supposedly >celebrating. Our pea-brained, tax-hungry, freedom and liberty opposed >politicians have the audacity to ride in 4th of July parades where >foolish people cheer them on instead of booing them and tossing rotten >eggs, or worse, at them. Did it occur to anyone that perhaps there is an ongoing effort at perhaps enhancing this point of view? Many wars are fought with guns and bombs and people's lives, some wars are fought with lies. The United States has been in a state of perhaps undeclared war for some time with a group of people who are trying to pervert the ideas of the fundamental principles of the US constitution. The Constitutional preamble starts "We the people..." not "We the politicians..." for good reason. Anyway, it isn't Classic Computers so it doesn't belong here. But the war is real, we saw an interesting battle in November did we not? --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 5 01:42:35 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Looking for Vance Dereksen/Shridar Ayengar (OT, sorry) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704234156.02d99ea0@209.185.79.193> I'm looking for him too, I'm guessing his domain data is screwed up, certainly the DNS records are not correct. --Chuck At 12:18 PM 7/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >I hate to put this on the list but I am unable to get Sridhar Ayengar >(Vance Dereksen) concerning some books he wanted. I need to hear from him >in the next few days or another buyer/recipient/etc will be found. > >Peace...and write me... From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Jul 5 08:31:12 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704233559.02d982b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B446C20.8AF3E3E@gorge.net> We saw exactly how partisan the Supreme court was. And how elections of our alledged choices are bought and sold like so much raw meat on the chicago merck. I voted for none of the ruling party, The only way to solve this problem involves much blood and gunpowder and won't happen till the economy tanks in a major way. Sorry, very very sorry. Jim D. Chuck McManis wrote: > > >The 4th of July in America has degenerated into a big hypocritical > >joke. People are out celebrating just to celebrate, not giving a damn > >about the revolution and related ideas that they're supposedly > >celebrating. Our pea-brained, tax-hungry, freedom and liberty opposed > >politicians have the audacity to ride in 4th of July parades where > >foolish people cheer them on instead of booing them and tossing rotten > >eggs, or worse, at them. > > Did it occur to anyone that perhaps there is an ongoing effort at perhaps > enhancing this point of view? Many wars are fought with guns and bombs and > people's lives, some wars are fought with lies. The United States has been > in a state of perhaps undeclared war for some time with a group of people > who are trying to pervert the ideas of the fundamental principles of the US > constitution. The Constitutional preamble starts "We the people..." not "We > the politicians..." for good reason. Anyway, it isn't Classic Computers so > it doesn't belong here. But the war is real, we saw an interesting battle > in November did we not? > > --Chuck From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 5 07:52:56 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter Message-ID: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? Thanks. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From engdahl at cle.ab.com Thu Jul 5 08:34:11 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <000701c10557$2d562b00$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Here's a clip from my website with some pointers: --------------- XXDP -- I downloaded this, but haven't used it yet. It is my understanding that this is required to setup the RQDX3. manual: http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/pdp11/xxdpdoc.txt software: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp- 11/xxdp/ --------------- I'm probably going to face some of the same problems you are facing. I'm still using the Andromeda UDC11 on my 11/53, which works well, but I've got several RQDX3's I'll eventually have to get working. I'm in the process of building several 11/53's from scrounged parts. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Carman" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,vmsnet.pdp-11 To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:52 AM Subject: RD53 formatter > I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 > drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O > errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 > controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the > RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was > there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? > > Thanks. > > -- > Doug Carman > pdp11@bellsouth.net > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 5 08:28:53 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704234813.02d99ae0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 10:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Times have changed. > > No they haven't. So true. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jul 5 09:28:02 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy Message-ID: Unfortunately, there's a guy here in Chicago who took a bullet through his skull last night: he was standing on his back porch while some people down the alley were celebrating by firing off guns and fireworks. He's not dead (yet), but definitely not in good shape. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 7:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) Everybody with a gun would fire off a few patriotic rounds too. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:32:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <005701c104d1$4328ae20$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001301c10567$a8738d40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The cops came around and hauled off the guy across the street last night for his excessive use of illegal fireworks. Apparently he set fire to a trash can in another of his neighbors' yards with a pop-bottle rocket. I hope they throw away the key! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 3:35 PM Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set > fire to their > > neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county > councils that > > enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. > > > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > I like the approach used in Missouri, you can buy anything > you want, you just can't fire it off in the state. Right. > > I still have a few bricks of crackers from my last trip > there, at least for a few more hours. > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 10:34:42 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <5172.586T1950T2565287optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010705153442.7253.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Jeff Hellige skrev: > > >>I hope you've managed to scrounge enough ZIPs to accomodate the OS and > >>applications. > > > It supposedly has 14meg total, which was enough to do most > >anything I wanted to before. > > Well, you can't go much further than that on the mobo IIRC. A little more - 2Mb CHIP and 16Mb FAST - 18Mb total, just like an A4000. > You mention the points which IMO makes the A3000 prettier. The A4000, for all > its shortcomings, is somewhat easier to handle, though. I have both an A3000 and an A4000 (each one was in turn my primary Amiga for years). I personally like the A3000 more, but the internal CD-ROM bay and the AGA chipset is mighty attractive (but so is SCSI-on-the-motherboard). > Similarly, the RAM may be hideously slow, but at least it uses SIMMs. Getting > hold of ZIPs is a bloody pain in the neck (are there any list members out > there who happen to have any to spare? =). I might have a few individual ones (like 6, not enough for a bank), but I think they are Fast Page, not Static Column. > The A1200 is common, but it is essentially a closed architecture. Unless > you're adventurous and put it in a tower with a slot card and all that, but > it > still turns out as a mediocre imitation of a real big-box machine. Still, > given a PCI backplane, it turns out a rather cheap solution compared to a > similarly equipped Zorro Amiga. I fell off the bandwagon by the time A1200 towers became common. Got a $10 A1200 motherboard that I started to repair (broken pins on an SMT DRAM, solder on *all* the I/O connector pins from a hack job, etc.), but that is such a low priority that I'll probably find a cheap/free A1200 before I get to it. I bought OS3.9 but have yet to load it. :-( -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 10:37:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010705153733.7656.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > Ask a question about a DECstation 78, you get silence. But > just mention guns, and everyone's got something to say. I don't feel like clogging this busy and mostly useful list with gun issues, but in the case of a DECstation 78, I've never seen one, so I have nothing to say. OTOH, if someone else is _talking_ about a VT-78, I'll be listening intently. I have a nearly perfect sample of the PDP-8 line (just missing a PDP-8/S and some form of VT-78). Since I doubt I'll ever get an -S, I'll have to hold on that some day I might find a VT-78 or WS-78. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:39:55 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <001d01c10568$bdcf4660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're right, of course, but this type of legislation is instigated not by random legislative supidity, but by insurance interests. They save lots of $$$ by avoiding the injuries and subsequent lawsuits. Here in the U.S. we have a really STUPID law, called the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945, that gets renewed every so often, the original purpose of which was to help the insurance industry grow to such extent that insurance would be available uniformly thoughout the country. Now, over 55 years later, it's still around, the insurance companies don't need it at all, but it still makes the insurance industry exempt from nearly all anti-trust laws. If you're curious, contact your federal legislators to see how they voted. I'll bet it's hard to get a straight answer, not only to how they voted, which, ultimately, is a matter of record, but watch what happens if you ask them WHY they voted for it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Roberts" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 6:21 PM Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > good > > sense." > > No, but it doesn't stop the government from trying. > > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only > industrialized > > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect > those who are > > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from > them. > > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) > In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a > bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. > > Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth > of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be > doing something. > > cheers > > Geoff in Oz > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:40:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <002301c10568$d9dd9640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, by all means, GO! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 6:37 PM Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > >Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the fireworks - > >they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" commercials, laws, > >etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see the prices for cheap crap > >that spits some sparks and just say the hell with it. It's quiet here in > >rural KY too and the local displays really suck. No more of the aerial > > My dad used to tell me about 4th of July when he was a kid. They used to > play "war" games with roman candles, and not some little sissy version, but > 2 ft long tubes that would shoot a fireball quite a distance. Everybody > with a gun would fire off a few patriotic rounds too. > > Now to have a little fun you have to go to Iraq or something. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:41:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <002901c10568$edf6d9c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'll bet you can write someone in if you like! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Davis" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 12:13 AM Subject: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all citizens vote. > I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it required > that > you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? > Jim Davis. > > Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > > good > > > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) > > In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a > > bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. > > > > Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth > > of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be > > doing something. > > > > cheers > > > > Geoff in Oz > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:46:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004001c10569$a0fb1900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's because people all seem to care about guns ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 12:13 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > You can make the same argument for guns, now can't you? > The fact is, > > > lambasting any technology because of what it can be used > for is attacking > > > the problem from the wrong end. > > > > That's how I was hoping someone would reply! :-) Please > note that I > > was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote that. > It's not the > > computers, guns, cars, knives or rocks that are dangerous, > but the > > people who use them for harmful purposes. If we didn't > have > > computers, they'd surely find a way to do something > equally bad, would > > then not? > > > Ask a question about a DECstation 78, you get silence. But > just mention guns, and everyone's got something to say. > > From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Jul 5 11:12:52 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 4, 2001 12:32:25 pm" Message-ID: <200107051612.JAA21313@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the > > fireworks - they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" > > commercials, laws, etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see > > the prices for cheap crap that spits some sparks and just say the hell > > with it. > > You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set fire to their > neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county councils that > enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. Last night, those cretins of which you speak were busily lobbing burning magnesium all over the tinder dry "extreme fire hazard zone" in which I reside. I wholeheartedly will support any laws that contain forced sterilization (of the perpetrator and their children) as punishment for such behavior. As a punishment for attempted mass murder, they'd be getting off lightly. (OK, I'm joking.... a little...) If these idiot want to reproduce, they should launch their fireworks in an area that isn't so flammable. Whatever happened to going to the beach for such things? Eric From owad at applefritter.com Thu Jul 5 11:15:33 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: FS/T: IBM 5363 II Message-ID: <20010705161533.22078@mail.earthlink.net> Pick up in south-central PA or at VCF East. IBM 5363 II In very nice condition and working when decomissioned; it spent all its life in the server room. I'm pretty certain it hasn't been opened or changed by anybody, so its probably original specs, but I don't have the time or interest to power it up and check. It has a 5.25" drive and a tape drive. IBM 9331 012 5.25" drive. It appears to have all the cables with it. two IBM 4869 5.25" drives. These appear to have all the cables with them. two IBM 5394-01B units. I'm not sure what these are, but they have built in 3.5" drives. two IBM terminals, P/N 83X7939. They have DB25 connectors and no keyboards; I'm not sure I have the cables to hook them up. If these are incorrect or more pieces are needed, I _might_ be able to get the proper terminals. Two Universal Data Systems V.32 modems with very impressive cables. Two cards that appear new in box, labeled P/N 7363223, in IBM labeld boxes. They almost look like PCI cards. I haven't the foggiest what they are or what they go to. The tape I offered free earlier this week and which nobody claimed fits in the IBM's tape drive, so it's included, too. I'd like to get rid of the stuff as one lot, but I'll sell just peripherals provided there's somebody interested in the 5363. Cash preferred, but I'll consider a trade. I have no idea what a 5363 II is worth, so go ahead and make an offer. Stuff I'd be willing to trade for: Apple & Mac clones Interesting Apple stuff PERQ/Alto/Star Canon Cat/Swyft Nutek One/Duet NeXT cube Apple II (plain II) LEGO stuff (be it electronic or just bricks) Note that "interesting Apple stuff" is an awfully broad category. Neat Apple II cards are good. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 5 12:22:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter In-Reply-To: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: >I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 >drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O >errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 >controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the >RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was >there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? There is an XXDP program to do this, as well as the MV II Diag Tape (not the customer diag tape though). However, the easiest way to do it is with a VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000 which has the necessary routines in it's ROMs. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 5 12:23:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <001301c10567$a8738d40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <005701c104d1$4328ae20$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >The cops came around and hauled off the guy across the street last night >for his >excessive use of illegal fireworks. Apparently he set fire to a trash can in >another of his neighbors' yards with a pop-bottle rocket. I hope they throw >away the key! You would just love it at Leisure World, seriously, look into it. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 12:35:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010705173530.77610.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 > >drives from a MicroVAX II... Does anyone know what is required to do > > this on an 11/83? Was there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? > > There is an XXDP program to do this, as well as the MV II Diag Tape (not > the customer diag tape though). However, the easiest way to do it is with > a VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000 which has the necessary routines in its ROMs. While the original question was in regards to an 11/83, I wanted to jump in on the VS/MV2000 recommendation and mention that I have found a couple of disks that would _not_ format under the ROM formatter there, but would do so on a uVAX-II w/FS Diag Tape formatter. The disks in question did have bad blocks that needed to be mapped and there was some reason I never did understand why the MV2000 could not do it. It appeared to work, but an Ultrix 2.0 install failed at the same point every time, due to the bad block that wasn't properly mapped out. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 5 12:49:57 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter In-Reply-To: Doug Carman "RD53 formatter" (Jul 5, 8:52) References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <10107051849.ZM27748@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 5, 8:52, Doug Carman wrote: > I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 > drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O > errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 > controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the > RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was > there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? If the drives came from a MicroVAX-II it's unlikely they were on an RQDX2. As far as I know, those machines all had RQDX3s. Anyone know differently? RD53's aren't the most reliable of drives, and it may be they really are failing. The TechTips said that there were a lot of problems with errors, especially on RQDX1 and RQDX2 controllers, due to over-long unscreened cables, or early revisions of the M9058 board. You might take a look at the cables and check the voltages at the drives too. Check the version numbers of the ROMs on the RQDX3 as well, early versions had some problems, and IIRC you are supposed to change W23 according to the drive type and RQDX3 revision level. The one in my 11/83 has 23-243E5/23-244E5 ROMs (that's revision 2, there is a later revision in 23-285E5/23-286E5 and the final version was 23-339E5/23-240E5) and W23 is made 1-2 and 3-4. You're right about XXDP. Specifically, XXDP Ver.2 (though XXDP+ should work too) and the program you want for formatting using an RQDX3 is ZRQC??.BIN (the latest version I have is ZRQCH0.BIN). ZRQB??.BIN is the formatter for an RQDX1/2 (ZRQBC0.BIN formats up to an RD53). There's XXDP documentation in both PostScript and PDF formats on my website at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/ Take a look in the /public/DECROMs directory too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 12:19:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <3B43B4B3.7A63DBAD@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jul 4, 1 07:28:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/772dc774/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 12:24:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <885.586T400T1113997optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 5, 1 01:51:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1393 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/144e95a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 12:29:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010704223829.00ef34a8@obregon.multi.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Jul 4, 1 10:38:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 790 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/738d46e5/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jul 5 12:58:01 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> It's always embarassing for me to have to ask Amiga questions here, but here goes... I'd like to make archival copies of the hard disk partitions in an A2000 and an A4000. I've got network cards and NFS running, so I want to find a tool for the Amiga that will convert a hard disk partition to an .HDF file that will mount under WinUAE. For example, I'd mount my NT machine's P: drive as NTp: on the Amiga, and the utility would write directly to "NTp:foo.hdf". I tried this once before with 'packdev' and no compression, but the results apparently weren't .HDF files and crashed the WinUAE emulator. Am I missing something obvious, like that the ADF-based tools will work with hard disks, too? - John From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jul 5 13:37:31 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D01@BUSH02> > The BBC micro doesn't have a AY-3-8910, period. I've just looked at the > schematic. > > You can add a couple of machines to the list, though : > > Vectrex games console > Tatung Einstein. > > Both of those contain AY-3-8910-related chips > Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 14:06:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D01@BUSH02> Message-ID: <001d01c10585$9bb98320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got a raw and unused AY-3-8910 in my parts drawers, if anybody has something interesting (component, raw, unused) they'd like to swap. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: RE: AY-3-8910 > > > The BBC micro doesn't have a AY-3-8910, period. I've just looked at the > > schematic. > > > > You can add a couple of machines to the list, though : > > > > Vectrex games console > > Tatung Einstein. > > > > Both of those contain AY-3-8910-related chips > > > Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos > > Lee. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The > information contained in this email may contain information which is > confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender > and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please > delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International > IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > > _____________________________________________________________________ > This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet > delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further > information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call > Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. > > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Jul 5 14:20:24 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question In-Reply-To: <10107051849.ZM27748@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: 1. startup disk, 2. operating disk 3. missing 4. help disk. Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will happen if I try to install it? Thanx --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 15:00:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: <000701c1058d$1cff3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the check I wrote for one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one is making a bit of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the tray's empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there is once in a while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. It's toothless, though and doesn't shred the paper. Has anyone got a useful suggestion as to how to restore the formerly excellent feed capability of this otherwise quite excellent printer? Next question ... One other of these guys keeps displaying "Service 50" on his display. What does this mean? What does it want? thanks, Dick From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 15:04:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: <000b01c1058d$c3baa040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You might have some missing files ... but I don't know if you'll miss them. If this is a "set" which was not the most common practice with v3.30, but could have been done to make the system fit on fewer 360K diskettes, there may be other problems. I use 3.31, once in a while, which is probably pretty similar. The 3.31 was stolen from a client who used Compaq machines, but not by me ... Nevertheless a copy of the files ended up on my server ... The missing diskette, while this is only a guess, probably had utilities, e.g. basic, basica, etc. That was before scandisk, smartdrv, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 1:20 PM Subject: DOD 3.30 Question > I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: > > 1. startup disk, > 2. operating disk > 3. missing > 4. help disk. > > Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will > happen if I try to install it? > > Thanx > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- > > gene@ehrich.com > gehrich@tampabay.rr.com > P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 > > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic > Computer & Video Game Garage Sale > > > > > > From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jul 5 15:19:06 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <000701c1058d$1cff3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the check I wrote for >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one is making a bit >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the tray's >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there is once in a >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. It's toothless, >though and doesn't shred the paper. > >Has anyone got a useful suggestion as to how to restore the formerly excellent >feed capability of this otherwise quite excellent printer? It's a "marvel"... ;-) as in - Marven Mystery Oil. Used sparingly, it's quite good at putting the "stickyness" back into rubber grabbers. I've used it on quite a few HP deskjets & on 2 LaserJet HP4's... It's best used with a soft, cotton, lint free (or close) cloth. (read: Old T-shirt) >Next question ... > >One other of these guys keeps displaying "Service 50" on his display. What does >this mean? What does it want? dunno 'zactly, but if you go to "www.fixyourownprinter.com" (yea, it's a hokey URL) they have "kits" to fix the more common "service errors" for the HP LaserJets (with simple instructions...) IIRC, they have a search utility to see if they have a kit that matches your number. Their kits don't seem too outrageous in price, AFAICT... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 15:22:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <000701c1058d$1cff3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 5, 1 02:00:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3724 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/2dcece93/attachment.ksh From owad at applefritter.com Thu Jul 5 15:38:06 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: FS/T: IBM AS/400 9402 D02 Message-ID: <20010705203806.18939@mail.earthlink.net> IBM AS/400 9402 D02 Two hard drives, tape drive, a covered board that I presume is the motherboard. Looks complete to me, but I don't have much to compare it to. I haven't tried to run it and have no idea if it works. The blue ribbon across the top is a little rough; the computer is mildly marked, but not in especially bad condition. FS/T. Can be picked up in south-central PA or at VCF East. I'm not looking for much, just want to get rid of it. Tom P.S. Regarding the System 36 in my previous post, I also have a couple Sys 36 manuals, not originally with that particular 36, which I'll include. Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 15:40:09 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <5172.586T1950T2565287optimus@canit.se> References: <5172.586T1950T2565287optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Similarly, the RAM may be hideously slow, but at least it uses SIMMs. Getting >hold of ZIPs is a bloody pain in the neck (are there any list members out >there who happen to have any to spare? =). I remember a review for the DKB Rapidfire SCSI board a number of years back. It had 72pin SIMM sockets onboard and one of the points that the reviewer made was that as slow as the A4000's RAM was, unbeleivably the Rapidfire's RAM was even slower. The Rapidfire is a 16bit ZII card. I did use one to add cheap SCSI capability to my A4000 though and you could mount a drive directly to the board itself if you lacked additional drive space. >The A1200 is common, but it is essentially a closed architecture. Unless >you're adventurous and put it in a tower with a slot card and all that, but it >still turns out as a mediocre imitation of a real big-box machine. Still, >given a PCI backplane, it turns out a rather cheap solution compared to a >similarly equipped Zorro Amiga. It amazes me how expensive the later Amiga's still are, especially the newer A1200's and 4000's. Do people still pay those kind of prices for the 'new' ones? >run new software, though I'm not familiar with EGA myself. Didn't it deviate >somewhat from the usual WB look? ISTR screenshots in mags with gadgets which >seemed to come from a Motif system. Other than looking better on the higher resolution screen, I don't recall EGS changing the look of the WB at all. Maybe the screenshots were using varous WB enhancers such as Magic WB and MUI? >I didn't know that the Spectrum was a ZIII board, and thought it was very >similar to the Picasso II in performance. I run a Retina ZIII myself, and >while it doesn't put up much of a match against newer boards, it is competent >enough. Certainly better than the PII. Yeah, it's ZIII. It is autosensing with a jumper to force it to use ZII if needed for compatibility purposes. It only has 2meg of VRAM though vice the 4meg on other later boards. I've always heard good things about the Retina boards, but have never used one. >BTW, you do have a CD-ROM, don't you? Yes, multiple SCSI drives around here. I even have an older version of AmiCDFS here somewhere. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Jul 5 17:24:28 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3B44E91C.D6BFD837@heathers.stdio.com> The service 50 error means either a bad fuser assembly of AC power module. 9 times out of 10 it is the AC power module. Both are very easy to rplace on the II and III. Brian. Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: > >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the check I wrote for > >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one is making > a bit > >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the > tray's > >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there is once in a > >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. It's toothless, > >though and doesn't shred the paper. > > > >Has anyone got a useful suggestion as to how to restore the formerly > excellent > >feed capability of this otherwise quite excellent printer? > > It's a "marvel"... ;-) as in - Marven Mystery Oil. Used sparingly, it's > quite good at putting the "stickyness" back into rubber grabbers. I've used > it on quite a few HP deskjets & on 2 LaserJet HP4's... > > It's best used with a soft, cotton, lint free (or close) cloth. (read: Old > T-shirt) > > >Next question ... > > > >One other of these guys keeps displaying "Service 50" on his display. > What does > >this mean? What does it want? > > dunno 'zactly, but if you go to "www.fixyourownprinter.com" (yea, it's a > hokey URL) they have "kits" to fix the more common "service errors" for the > HP LaserJets (with simple instructions...) IIRC, they have a search utility > to see if they have a kit that matches your number. > > Their kits don't seem too outrageous in price, AFAICT... > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From philpem at btinternet.com Thu Jul 5 17:31:19 2001 From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Apple Disk II PROMs Message-ID: <001f01c105a2$3701f300$e69a7ad5@phoenix> Hi, I'm currently building a simple 6502-based computer trainer and I'd like to implement a floppy drive on it. Steve Wozniak's Apple Disk II interface (the FDD interface for the Apple II) is quite simple, but I need the data that was programmed into the PROMs (P5 and P6 - they're 6309s). If I'm interpreting the Apple Disk II schematics correctly, then the part designations are D3 and B3 (for the P5 and P6 ROM, respectively). Ideally, I'd also like a copy of the PROM data for the later revision of the Disk II (P5A and P6A). I've got some info on programming the Disk II, but without the PROM data, I can't even get the interface running! Thanks. -- Phil. http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/ philpem@bigfoot.com From CELang at worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 5 17:26:03 2001 From: CELang at worldnet.att.net (CELang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question Message-ID: <008701c105a1$7fe6f300$62834b0c@oemcomputer> When I got my Packard Bell '286 back when it was new, I got three diskettes: DOS 3.3, disk 1 DOS 3.3, disk 2 GWBASIC 3.2 BTW, hello. I still haven't seen my intro message yet. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Gene Ehrich To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, July 05, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: DOD 3.30 Question >I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: > >1. startup disk, >2. operating disk >3. missing >4. help disk. > >Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will >happen if I try to install it? > >Thanx > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ > >gene@ehrich.com >gehrich@tampabay.rr.com >P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 > >http://www.voicenet.com/~generic >Computer & Video Game Garage Sale > > > > > > From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Thu Jul 5 17:29:26 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller Message-ID: <3B44EA46.3338CA@pacbell.net> While searching through my collection of old Qbus cards I just discovered that I have a DSD 4140, which appears to be an RX02 compatible interface to Shugart SA800 or SA850 drives. The only documentation that I have is a small reference card which has the jumper configuration and a summary of the commands (from which it appears that the controller also supports formatting drives with a write sector command followed by a couple of magic values written to the data register). Does anyone have any more information / documentation for this controller? Since I don't have any 8" Shugart interface drives available I'm probably going to have to hook this thing up to a 5.25" or a 3.5" drive in order to try it out. I seem to recall that constructing a suitable 50 way to 34 way cable adaptor is relatively simple, but again I would appreciate references or more information from anyone who has done this kind of thing recently. Michael From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Jul 5 17:34:24 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server>; from gehrich@tampabay.rr.com on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 03:20:24PM -0400 References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <10107051849.ZM27748@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: <20010705153423.A6647@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 03:20:24PM -0400, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: > > 1. startup disk, > 2. operating disk > 3. missing > 4. help disk. > > Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will > happen if I try to install it? Here's how I understand it (someone correct me if I'm wrong) -- Even though IBM and Microsoft were using the same code in PC-DOS and MS-DOS, the distributions were not the same (different layout of files or different files). And Microsoft let OEM's tweak DOS for many years, so even all MS-DOS distributions with a given version number are not the same. So what brand names are on the disk labels? Do they match the brand of the computer you're installing on? (Installing some other OEM's version isn't _dangerous_, but you might not get the right obscure device drivers, fiddly little utilities, etc.) -- Derek From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jul 5 17:42:41 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3B44E91C.D6BFD837@heathers.stdio.com> References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010705174241.0096dd30@ubanproductions.com> Since it sounds like we have some people who are good at LaserJet questions... I have a LaserJet IIP, which intermittently has a problem with leaving large black smears across the output. Not the kind of smears you get with a dirty machine. I believe it may be a thermal problem as it tends to work properly when first used, but after a while, it begins to fail. Any ideas on this one? --tnx --tom From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 17:36:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <3B44E91C.D6BFD837@heathers.stdio.com> from "Brian Roth" at Jul 5, 1 06:24:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2292 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/1cd1f135/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 17:54:46 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010705174241.0096dd30@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jul 5, 1 05:42:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/d9afc653/attachment.ksh From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Thu Jul 5 18:17:07 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <001901c105a8$9d318f40$0101010a@pentium2> ----- Original Message ----- From: John Foust To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? > > It's always embarassing for me to have to ask Amiga questions > here, but here goes... > > I'd like to make archival copies of the hard disk partitions > in an A2000 and an A4000. I've got network cards and NFS running, > so I want to find a tool for the Amiga that will convert a hard > disk partition to an .HDF file that will mount under WinUAE. > > For example, I'd mount my NT machine's P: drive as NTp: on > the Amiga, and the utility would write directly to "NTp:foo.hdf". > > I tried this once before with 'packdev' and no compression, > but the results apparently weren't .HDF files and crashed > the WinUAE emulator. > > Am I missing something obvious, like that the ADF-based tools > will work with hard disks, too? > > - John > From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Thu Jul 5 18:19:56 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <001e01c105a9$01dc20e0$0101010a@pentium2> John Foust wrote: > For example, I'd mount my NT machine's P: drive as NTp: on > the Amiga, and the utility would write directly to "NTp:foo.hdf". I'm not sure about writing directly to a hardfile. I find it more useful to copy the hard disk to a Windows directory and have the emulator use this as a virtual hard disk. It is easier to manipulate file formats using the two operating systems. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jul 5 18:15:29 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: I thought I was the only one that used Marvel Mystery Oil (made for top end of engines) for the rollers on printers!. Also he can slightly bend up the tang that lifts the metal flp in the tray so it lifts properly - but too much will make it prevent the tray from going in or make it break at the bend. Also be VERY careful not to break the hair-thin wire under the toner cartridge - this is the corona wire and NOT repairable (just replaceable). -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger -> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 3:19 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question -> -> -> Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: -> >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the -> check I wrote for -> >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one -> is making -> a bit -> >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the -> tray's -> >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there -> is once in a -> >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. -> It's toothless, -> >though and doesn't shred the paper. -> > -> >Has anyone got a useful suggestion as to how to restore the formerly -> excellent -> >feed capability of this otherwise quite excellent printer? -> -> It's a "marvel"... ;-) as in - Marven Mystery Oil. Used sparingly, it's -> quite good at putting the "stickyness" back into rubber -> grabbers. I've used -> it on quite a few HP deskjets & on 2 LaserJet HP4's... -> -> It's best used with a soft, cotton, lint free (or close) cloth. -> (read: Old -> T-shirt) -> -> -> >Next question ... -> > -> >One other of these guys keeps displaying "Service 50" on his display. -> What does -> >this mean? What does it want? -> -> dunno 'zactly, but if you go to "www.fixyourownprinter.com" (yea, it's a -> hokey URL) they have "kits" to fix the more common "service -> errors" for the -> HP LaserJets (with simple instructions...) IIRC, they have a -> search utility -> to see if they have a kit that matches your number. -> -> Their kits don't seem too outrageous in price, AFAICT... -> -> HTH, -> Roger "Merch" Merchberger -> -- -> Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers -> Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. -> -> If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead -> disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 18:23:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: Message-ID: <001101c105a9$8bb39aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Gee! You must have seen this a time or two, Tony. I started out with one LJ-III that was making a bit of noise, emanating from the upper right rear region of the printer where a rubber nipple apparently involved in paper transport protrudes into the accessible innards. I bought the two other LJ-III's on the off chance that one or the other would have the necessary parts to make the noise go away. The off-chance that one or the other of these could be induced to work was of interest as well. I paid $4 each for these printers, so there's no great loss if they don't work out. (The toner cartridges weigh nearly what a full one weighs, if that's any indication.) Unfortunately, they lack paper trays. The cost of the various repair kits, combined with the somewhat evasive information offered along with them, and the restocking charges associated with them, in case they don't help, make it unattractive simply to repair these printers. I remember paying $300+ for a logic board when I plugged the printer cable into a PAL programmer board on the back of a utility machine ... which I only did once, by the way, but to TWO printers, and these printers apparently have good logic boards. My understanding is that this fuser/AC PSU problem is one of the more common failure modes, though. Hopefully I can get at least one of these two "parts" printers running. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question > > > > > -tony > > From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 5 18:04:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <1573.587T1650T44927optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >It's always embarassing for me to have to ask Amiga questions >here, but here goes... >I'd like to make archival copies of the hard disk partitions >in an A2000 and an A4000. I've got network cards and NFS running, >so I want to find a tool for the Amiga that will convert a hard >disk partition to an .HDF file that will mount under WinUAE. I did archival copies today, but they're on a DDS tape. =) >For example, I'd mount my NT machine's P: drive as NTp: on >the Amiga, and the utility would write directly to "NTp:foo.hdf". >I tried this once before with 'packdev' and no compression, >but the results apparently weren't .HDF files and crashed >the WinUAE emulator. Haven't they once changed the format too, or was that just the addition of the .HDF extension? >Am I missing something obvious, like that the ADF-based tools >will work with hard disks, too? I recall reading a document about how someone transferred his HD to a HDF file, and I actually believe that he used Transdisk. OTOH you could try connecting the drives directly to the PC and do a "dd" or similar. Well, at least it's doable. Another idea would be to start UAE, install AmiTCP, or at least amiganetfs, and transfer the disk contents that way. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. - Hur tar du bilder fr?n TVn? - Jag anv?nder mig av en digitalkamera och fixar s? det blir m?rkt i rummet och kn?pper sedan bilden. - Hur g?r du dina mp3or? - Jag kopplar ett par h?rlurar till TVn, s?tter en mic framf?r h?rlurarna och spelar in med valfritt inspelningsprogram. Jenny Hannula From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 5 18:17:23 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D01@BUSH02> Message-ID: <816.587T1150T174471optimus@canit.se> Davison, Lee skrev: >> The BBC micro doesn't have a AY-3-8910, period. I've just looked at the >> schematic. >> >> You can add a couple of machines to the list, though : >> >> Vectrex games console >> Tatung Einstein. >> >> Both of those contain AY-3-8910-related chips >> >Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos Does anyone here have an Atmos? It's really an adorable design on the outside, with that black and red colour scheme. Doesn't seem that common, though there might be a lot in France, the traditional Oric stronghold. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 19:01:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 5, 1 06:15:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 415 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/b203aaef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 19:03:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <816.587T1150T174471optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 6, 1 00:17:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 549 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/9c4d0650/attachment.ksh From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 5 19:26:05 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Space War? References: <200107051612.JAA21313@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3B45059D.3F0D81E1@tiac.net> As I understand it, the first video game ever was space war, written at MIT. Does anyone here know anything about a port of space war for the HP2115? Many years ago I purchased a 2115 from the MIT equipment exchange. Paper lables on the front panel suggest that the machine at one time played space war. I've kept the core unlatered, but the idea of reverse engineering whatever code may (or may not) be stored in core seems impractical. The machine had all its I/O boards removed before I got to it. I'm tempted to simply ignore the original contents of the core at this point, and load something interesting for VCF East, but before I alter it, I'd like to ask if anyone has heard of space war running on old HP mini's? From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jul 5 19:19:06 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010705174241.0096dd30@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> As I said, the problem is not one of a dirty machine or paper path. I have replaced the toner cartridge (as suggested) with no improvement... --tom At 11:54 PM 7/5/01 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Since it sounds like we have some people who are good at LaserJet questions... >> >> I have a LaserJet IIP, which intermittently has a problem with leaving large >> black smears across the output. Not the kind of smears you get with a dirty >> machine. I believe it may be a thermal problem as it tends to work properly >> when first used, but after a while, it begins to fail. > >Nobody's given me a IIP (LX engine?) to pull to bits yet, so I don't know >it that well at all. Certainly not to the level that I know the CX and SX >engines to... > >That said, have yoy tried a new toner cartridge? A worn wiper blade will >cause this sort of problem. > >Dirty smears are almost always due to toner collecting where it >shouldn't. Clean the complete paper path, run the machine until the fault >occurs and see if you can see where the toner is collecting. Then find >out why. > >-tony > > From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Thu Jul 5 19:23:24 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia auction Message-ID: Because of the interest, I have decided to hold a sealed bid auction for the complete set of Micro Cornucopia magazines. Every issue from #1 (July 1981, 16 pages) to #53 (May 1990, 96 pages) is here. The subheading started out "Journal of the Big Board Users", changed with #7 to "The Single Board Systems Journal", and finally changed with #23 to "The Micro Technical Journal". Topics covered included software--BASIC, Pascal, C, Forth, Smalltalk, Prolog, Wordstar, dBase II, CP/M, MS-DOS, and much more--and hardware--memory upgrades, EPROM erasers, a logic analyzer, video circuitry, even a complete Nat Semi 32000 chip set computer with circuit diagrams. The early issues have almost exclusively Big Board, CP/M, and Z80 content. The final issues have almost exclusively MS-DOS PC content. In the middle there is an incredible variety of hard-core technical articles. Almost all the issues are perfect. The early issues I purchased as back issues so they do not even have mailing labels on them. Issue 21, December-January 1985, has "Sample for Microsystems Readers" printed in red on the front; Micro Cornucopia was trying to pick up subscribers from Sol Libes' magazine that folded. That was my first issue and every issue from #21 on has mailing labels on them. Issue 29 is damaged; it appears that this one was on the end of a bundle--the cover is scuffed and there are small tears at the top and bottom from the binding strap. End of auction is Friday 6 July 2001 at 8pm. Send bids to paul@wccnet.org. Highest bidder wins (duh!). Payment is by check or money order and must be received within 30 days (6 August) of auction end. Shipping costs are IN ADDITION to the bid amount. I can ship via US Mail or UPS. The magazines weigh about 24 pounds and would cost about $9 to ship USPS Media Mail without insurance. Shipping is from Monroe, Michigan 48161. No shipping charges if you pick it up, of course. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA paul@wccnet.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 19:18:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <001101c105a9$8bb39aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 5, 1 05:23:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4058 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/63fb82b3/attachment.ksh From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Jul 5 19:35:37 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <009201c105b3$941e8ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Davis" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 3:43 PM Subject: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all citizens vote. Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually all of the eligible voters. It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US elections actually bother to vote. > I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it required > that you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? You must attend a polling place, and have your name crossed off. You are handed ballot papers, initialled by the issuing officer, theoretically, you can stick them straight in the ballot box and walk out. If you do proceed to a booth, don't mark the papers, and place them in the ballot box, that's ok too. This means an informal vote, but since you didn't want to vote anyway.... Basically, the law is so that people will show up to vote. What they do then is up to them, but most people take the attitude that since they are there, they might as well vote. They are talking about requiring people to show id for the next election, instead of just telling them who you are, which is the case at the moment. But you don't get an electoral official looking over your shoulder, though tou can ask for someone to accompany you to the booth to ensure that your vote is correctly filled out if you wish, can be anyone over 18, not necessarily an official. Cheers Geoff in Oz From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 19:26:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jul 5, 1 07:19:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 683 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/92340ece/attachment.ksh From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 5 19:51:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <3B45059D.3F0D81E1@tiac.net> Message-ID: I thought the first game was AD on early CDCs and later on IBM S/36s? Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > As I understand it, the first video game ever was space war, written at MIT. > > Does anyone here know anything about a port of space war for the HP2115? > > Many years ago I purchased a 2115 from the MIT equipment exchange. Paper > lables on the front panel suggest that the machine at one time played space > war. > > I've kept the core unlatered, but the idea of reverse engineering whatever > code > may (or may not) be stored in core seems impractical. The machine had all its > > I/O boards removed before I got to it. > > I'm tempted to simply ignore the original contents of the core at this point, > and > load something interesting for VCF East, but before I alter it, I'd like to > ask if > anyone has heard of space war running on old HP mini's? > From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 5 20:53:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4092.587T1500T1735637optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>Similarly, the RAM may be hideously slow, but at least it uses SIMMs. >>Getting hold of ZIPs is a bloody pain in the neck (are there any list >>members out there who happen to have any to spare? =). > I remember a review for the DKB Rapidfire SCSI board a number >of years back. It had 72pin SIMM sockets onboard and one of the >points that the reviewer made was that as slow as the A4000's RAM >was, unbeleivably the Rapidfire's RAM was even slower. The Rapidfire >is a 16bit ZII card. I did use one to add cheap SCSI capability to >my A4000 though and you could mount a drive directly to the board >itself if you lacked additional drive space. If the Rapidfire really is a Zorro-II card, then it's a magnitude slower than the mobo A4k RAM. Our A3000 really went on its knees when we had put an old (old!) 8-UP! ZII DIP memory board in it. The majority of my memory is comprised of 30-pin SIMMs on a Fastlane Z3 SCSI card. It's a really nice SCSI card (I particularly like the fact that it's got a full CEN50 socket on the blanking plate), but even though it's a Z3 card, the RAM only runs at 80% of the mobo speed. >>The A1200 is common, but it is essentially a closed architecture. Unless >>you're adventurous and put it in a tower with a slot card and all that, but >>it still turns out as a mediocre imitation of a real big-box machine. Still, >>given a PCI backplane, it turns out a rather cheap solution compared to a >>similarly equipped Zorro Amiga. > It amazes me how expensive the later Amiga's still are, >especially the newer A1200's and 4000's. Do people still pay those >kind of prices for the 'new' ones? The A1200 isn't particularly expensive IMO, but the big-box 32-bit machines are. See my post a week or two ago about how much faster workstation which retailed for ten times as much now sell at the fraction of the price of an unexpanded Amiga. =) >>run new software, though I'm not familiar with EGA myself. Didn't it deviate >>somewhat from the usual WB look? ISTR screenshots in mags with gadgets which >>seemed to come from a Motif system. > Other than looking better on the higher resolution screen, I >don't recall EGS changing the look of the WB at all. Maybe the >screenshots were using varous WB enhancers such as Magic WB and MUI? These are rather old screenshots from a Spectrum review, but it could still be. >>I didn't know that the Spectrum was a ZIII board, and thought it was very >>similar to the Picasso II in performance. I run a Retina ZIII myself, and >>while it doesn't put up much of a match against newer boards, it is >>competent enough. Certainly better than the PII. > Yeah, it's ZIII. It is autosensing with a jumper to force it >to use ZII if needed for compatibility purposes. It only has 2meg of >VRAM though vice the 4meg on other later boards. I've always heard >good things about the Retina boards, but have never used one. And it can't be expanded either? Hm, sounds a lot like the PII. >>BTW, you do have a CD-ROM, don't you? > Yes, multiple SCSI drives around here. I even have an older >version of AmiCDFS here somewhere. I believe that AmiCDFS is bundled with newer OS versions. BTW, a tip for old workstation users, I just found out that the CD-ROM in my Compaq Prosignia 300 EISA/PCI server has a jumper for setting the block size to 512 bytes. It's just a double-spin CD, but for me, it was free. Now it sits in the PowerUser SCSI box I bought today, and the Prosignia will have to make do with the 44 MB SyQuest which was in the SCSI case. =9 So if you're looking for one of those elusive "bootable" CD drives, look no further than Compaq. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. It's amazing how many useful pieces of equipment are disguised as domestic appliances: the machine for cleaning keyboard keycaps and shell cases does an excellent job of washing clothes, while the tumbling machine for drying them off also works for socks and shirts. The device in the kitchen for baking small spray-painted articles can be used for pizza and muffins. And so on... Pete Turnbull From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 5 20:05:48 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <009201c105b3$941e8ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: Responses inline: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all > citizens vote. > > Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually > all of the eligible voters. > It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US > elections actually bother to vote. I think that technically US citizens are required to vote. It is a civic duty, at least. > > I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it > required > > that you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? > > You must attend a polling place, and have your name crossed off. You > are handed ballot papers, initialled by the issuing officer, > theoretically, you can stick them straight in the ballot box and walk > out. If you do proceed to a booth, > don't mark the papers, and place them in the ballot box, that's ok too. > This means an informal vote, > but since you didn't want to vote anyway.... > Basically, the law is so that people will show up to vote. What they do > then is up to them, but most people take the attitude that since they > are there, they might as well vote. Here in the US, that crowd usually doesn't even bother showing up. I vote regularly, but if there is no one I would like to vote for in a particular race, I will not vote for anyone on that particular race. > They are talking about requiring people to show id for the next > election, instead of just telling them who you are, which is the case at > the moment. > But you don't get an electoral official looking over your shoulder, > though tou can ask for someone to accompany you to the booth to ensure > that your vote is correctly filled out if you wish, can be anyone over > 18, not necessarily an official. I don't know if you can take anyone in with you here, but I have a feeling you can. A lot of people take their kids in. We have to present ID, usually a voter registration card or a drivers license. I usually present the former. Peace... Sridhar > Cheers > > Geoff in Oz > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 20:15:38 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010706011538.80184.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > ...LaserJet-III... paper jam... how to restore... feed capability > > Sure, replace the pickup roller. One of the common faults on the SX engine. Yep. Just did upper and lower feed rollers and transfer pads on my LJIIID. Ran about $30 in parts and a lot of labor/time (I haven't been inside a printer in several years and I had several false starts). > Take off the outer casing (lots of screws)... Nice description about how to get to the upper roller. I wish there were an easy way to get to the lower transfer pad. I just about stripped the printer bare to do it (on the bright side, I did learn what goes where and what has to come off (and go back on!) first). > Remove the E-clips... Commonly called "circlips" on this end of the pond. > and components from the > left hand end (keeping them in order and the right way round) until you > can remvoe the D-shaped pickup roller. Put a new one one and reassemble. I ran into one problem - some of those other components were worn enough that I accidentally put the D-shaped roller 180 degrees around. Yes, it's possible. No, it's not supposed to be possible. There is a small pin that is supposed to fit into one of the hard rollers next to the rubber rollers, but it moved around too much during disassembly and I got it wrong the first time. It caused a jam on pickup because the flat spot on the D wasn't down when the next stage went to grab the paper and it stopped dead. > Last time I checked you could get a new roller from the PrinterWorks > (http://www.printerworks.com/) That's where I got mine. About $8 each. Even though the printer was $15 to me (complete with two paper trays, LocalTalk card, 4Mb memory card and Postscript cart), it was worth it to drop another 200% to get it working. It's slow, but works like a champ now. The only thing I haven't tested is double-sided printing. Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use? I'd rather throw this thing on the network than waste my only print-server port on it. Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 12:33:07 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <20010705153442.7253.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01Jul5.212436edt.119131@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> on 7/5/01 11:34 AM, Ethan Dicks at ethan_dicks@yahoo.com wrote: > I have both an A3000 and an A4000 (each one was in turn my primary Amiga > for years). I personally like the A3000 more, but the internal CD-ROM bay > and the AGA chipset is mighty attractive (but so is SCSI-on-the-motherboard). The AGA advantage is pretty much nulled by a graphics card, unless you were one to run a lot of AGA-only programs. I didn't like the way a drive put in the A4000's 5-1/4" bay went right up against the PSU and often times ended up sticking part way out the front of the machine. The internal case layout of the A3000 is tight, but very well thought out. The A4000's not nearly as well. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 21:05:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <4092.587T1500T1735637optimus@canit.se> References: <4092.587T1500T1735637optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >The majority of my memory is comprised of 30-pin SIMMs on a Fastlane Z3 SCSI >card. It's a really nice SCSI card (I particularly like the fact that it's got >a full CEN50 socket on the blanking plate), but even though it's a Z3 card, >the RAM only runs at 80% of the mobo speed. For a while, I thought about getting one of the DKB 3128 ZIII memory boards, but never got around to it. I did try to use the Rapidfire for RAM once, but it slowed things down so much I didn't leave it like that. The thing I always hated about expanding the ZIPs in an A3000 wasn't getting the chips but inserting them into the sockets. The way the 3000's ZIP banks were staggered made for a difficult time aligning the pins. >And it can't be expanded either? Hm, sounds a lot like the PII. The base Spectrum came with just 1meg while the higher end one came with 2. I believe it was simple enough to add the 2nd meg to the base model though. At the time, I had a 14" NEC monitor attached to it and I liked keeping the virtual screen set for auto-scrolling with the screen size set to 1280 x 960 with the actual viewable at a single time as 640 x 480. BTW, is WB still limited to 256 colors? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Jul 5 21:09:23 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <20010706011538.80184.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107060209.VAA05965@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? -Lawrence LeMay > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use? I'd rather > throw this thing on the network than waste my only print-server port > on it. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 21:20:47 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <200107060209.VAA05965@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010706022047.88038.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use How could I tell? The LJIII cards are the size of my hand with a centered set of edge card fingers on on short end. They are 1/2 the size of LJ4 cards. Is there a picture on the web I could reference? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 21:22:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <000f01c105c2$8543ec60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Now that the GOV is getting into everyone's lives sufficiently to ensure that everybody can, if they wish, and if they have kids in school, have a computer, internet access, etc, (hasn't been passed yet, or if it has, I missed it) with GOV subsidy, they could, and perhaps should, require that everyone vote. In fact, they could replace themselves with a direct, rather than representative, democracy. That way, all the legislature would have to do is put forth the information required to make the decision, and then discontinue your TV service until you passed a test (more than they now have to do) on the key points of each issue. That way people who pay for PORK would have to vote for it, i.e. know that they're paying for someone's gravy train. Folks who want to vote would do so, and folks who didn't want to familiarize themselves with the details of each issue couldn't, but until they passed the test, they couldn't watch the hockey game or soap opera either. You'd have to spend ten minutes a week, I'd guess, but you wouldn't have to stand in line or go out in the rain. There'd be a lot more knowledge behind the votes than there presently is, that's for sure. Moreover, the various counties wouldn't have to buy expensive voting machines. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 7:05 PM Subject: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > Responses inline: > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all > > citizens vote. > > > > Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually > > all of the eligible voters. > > It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US > > elections actually bother to vote. > > I think that technically US citizens are required to vote. It is a civic > duty, at least. > > > > I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it > > required > > > that you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? > > > > You must attend a polling place, and have your name crossed off. You > > are handed ballot papers, initialled by the issuing officer, > > theoretically, you can stick them straight in the ballot box and walk > > out. If you do proceed to a booth, > > don't mark the papers, and place them in the ballot box, that's ok too. > > This means an informal vote, > > but since you didn't want to vote anyway.... > > Basically, the law is so that people will show up to vote. What they do > > then is up to them, but most people take the attitude that since they > > are there, they might as well vote. > > Here in the US, that crowd usually doesn't even bother showing up. I vote > regularly, but if there is no one I would like to vote for in a particular > race, I will not vote for anyone on that particular race. > > > They are talking about requiring people to show id for the next > > election, instead of just telling them who you are, which is the case at > > the moment. > > But you don't get an electoral official looking over your shoulder, > > though tou can ask for someone to accompany you to the booth to ensure > > that your vote is correctly filled out if you wish, can be anyone over > > 18, not necessarily an official. > > I don't know if you can take anyone in with you here, but I have a feeling > you can. A lot of people take their kids in. We have to present ID, > usually a voter registration card or a drivers license. I usually present > the former. > > Peace... Sridhar > > > Cheers > > > > Geoff in Oz > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 21:26:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: <200107060209.VAA05965@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <002b01c105c3$13584c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got a JetLan board that I'd use if I were smart enough. I've had this thing 6-7 years now, but, though the OS knows about it, I can't get it woring through either Windows or Netware. It's not a big deal, but I'd like to use the LAN for it. Unfortunately, though it appears as an icon under PRINTERS in Windows, and even though the JetLan software recognizes it, I don't manage to get Netware to recognize it as a print server, so I can't route through the file server to it. Does anybody know how to make this functional? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use? I'd rather > > throw this thing on the network than waste my only print-server port > > on it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -ethan > > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 21:28:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <01Jul5.212436edt.119131@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20010706022822.86774.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > on 7/5/01 11:34 AM, Ethan Dicks at ethan_dicks@yahoo.com wrote: > > I have both an A3000 and an A4000 (each one was in turn my primary Amiga > > for years). I personally like the A3000 more, but the internal CD-ROM bay > > and the AGA chipset is mighty attractive (but so is > SCSI-on-the-motherboard). > > The AGA advantage is pretty much nulled by a graphics card, Never did get a graphics card. About the only upgrades I ever got were network cards, a serial card (for $20 in a clearance), an A-Max II+ card (which got lots of use driving a LaserJet-4/ML with A-Max) and I did upgrade the CPU in my A4000 (first by replacing the 68EC030 with a *real* 68030 - yes, by soldering; second by replacing the original CPU card with a C= '040 card). Oh... that's right... I did buy lots of stuff for my A1000 (Sprit InBoard, StarBoard w/StarDrive, ROM switcher, Rejuvinator, WEDGE (8-bit ISA MFM card adapter)...) By the time the A3000 came out, mostly I bought RAM and bigger hard disks. > ...I didn't like the way a drive put in the A4000's 5-1/4" bay went right up > against the PSU and often times ended up sticking part way out the front of > the machine. True. I think I ended up using a right-angle connector for power to get that last little bit of space back so my CD-ROM drive didn't stick out. > The internal case > layout of the A3000 is tight, but very well thought out. The A4000's not > nearly as well. You know why that is? C= Engineering had it all laid-out and finished, then some suit (the LBF?) told them to re-do it to use up the orphaned PC cases they had stacks and stacks of. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Jul 5 21:38:09 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller References: <3B44EA46.3338CA@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3B452491.AD26ACF7@arrl.net> Michael Davidson wrote: > > While searching through my collection of old Qbus cards I just > discovered that I have a DSD 4140, which appears to be an RX02 > compatible interface to Shugart SA800 or SA850 drives. > > The only documentation that I have is a small reference card > which has the jumper configuration and a summary of the commands > (from which it appears that the controller also supports > formatting drives with a write sector command followed by a > couple of magic values written to the data register). > > Does anyone have any more information / documentation for this > controller? > > Since I don't have any 8" Shugart interface drives available > I'm probably going to have to hook this thing up to a 5.25" > or a 3.5" drive in order to try it out. I seem to recall that > constructing a suitable 50 way to 34 way cable adaptor is > relatively simple, but again I would appreciate references or > more information from anyone who has done this kind of thing > recently. > > Michael Don't know if this will help, but I've got the user guide for the DSD4120. This uses 5-1/4 fdd's for rx01/rx02 emulation. Send me your address if you want this. - nick o From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jul 5 21:51:35 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <20010706022822.86774.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 5, 1 07:28:22 pm" Message-ID: <200107060251.TAA07472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Since we're talking Amiga upgrades, a knowledgeable Amiga guru I spoke to told me that the GVP A530 I have attached to my A500 only takes those funky 64-pin SIMMs. Are these the same SIMMs the Mac IIfx required? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How do you explain school to a higher intelligence? -- Elliott in "E.T." --- From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jul 5 22:11:50 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: > 1. startup disk, > 2. operating disk > 3. missing > 4. help disk. > Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will > happen if I try to install it? It depends on whether it is PC-DOS or MS-DOS, and if MS-DOS, which company's release. So long as one of the disks has COMMAND.COM and the [invisible] IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS (or IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM) then you can install it without using MICROS~1's INSTALL or SETUP. What you are missing would presumably be some of the programs that come with DOS. Some are easier to do without than others. If it is MS-DOS (v PC-DOS), then IO.SYS and MODE.COM may be customized for a particular manufacturer's machines (Internal/external video, possibly some special disk formats, etc.) 3.30 has full support for 1.4M floppies (although the BIOS might not), and will support hard drives up to 32M. 3.31 (not available in PC-DOS) supports drives above 32M (although there could be some other limitations, such as 500M or 8G) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jul 5 22:17:58 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question In-Reply-To: <000b01c1058d$c3baa040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The missing diskette, while this is only a guess, probably had utilities, e.g. > basic, basica, etc. That was before scandisk, smartdrv, etc. If it is PC-DOS, then it will have BASIC.COM and BASICA.COM which add disk I/O and a few extra features to the 32K BASIC that is in ROM in IBM's machines. If it is MS-DOS, then it will have GWBASIC. [GW stands for GEE WHIZ!] GWBASIC is a RAM based version of BASICA, and does NOT require the 32K ROM BASIC. Compaq and a few others renamed their GWBASIC into BASICA. They did that so that batch files, etc. that were written for the PC would work with Compaq. At least that is what Compaq told me was the reason when they gave me a free machine in 1983. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 23:28:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <002b01c105c3$13584c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010706042802.97558.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > I've got a JetLan board that I'd use if I were smart enough. I've had this > thing 6-7 years now, but, though the OS knows about it, I can't get it woring > through either Windows or Netware. I've got one of these, too, but I thought I would have to have a Netware Server on the network to feed it. I got mine in a grab bag at Dayton a few years ago. It's 10Base2, and the large chips on it are an 80C188 (CPU), DP83902V (Ethernet), an ASP- branded gate array ("GBIM ASB4101") and an EPROM ("JETLAN 00065-000-2.33") I'm looking for a card with better OS support, but if I could get this one working, I'd be satisfied with it. If I have to run print jobs through a server, the only thing I have that could fit the bill is a SPARC-LX running Solaris 7. If I have to have a dedicated server, I might as well build a Linux box and hang the printer off the parallel port. I have 0 interest in getting into Netware. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 6 00:01:58 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010705220137.032df880@mail.zipcon.net> I use Rubber Renew for the rollers. At 06:15 PM 7/5/01 -0500, you wrote: >I thought I was the only one that used Marvel Mystery Oil (made for top end >of engines) for the rollers on printers!. Also he can slightly bend up the >tang that lifts the metal flp in the tray so it lifts properly - but too >much will make it prevent the tray from going in or make it break at the >bend. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jul 6 01:16:45 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Space War? References: Message-ID: <008301c105e3$51fc7860$d226b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > I thought the first game was AD on early CDCs and later on IBM S/36s? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > As I understand it, the first video game ever was space war, written at MIT. > > > > Does anyone here know anything about a port of space war for the HP2115? > > According to an unverified source: SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and jumping through hyperspace. This game was first implemented on the PDP-1 at MIT in 1960--61. SPACEWAR aficionados formed the core of the early hacker culture at MIT. Nine years later, a descendant of the game motivated Ken Thompson to build, in his spare time on a scavenged PDP-7, the operating system that became {{UNIX}}. Less than nine years after that, SPACEWAR was commercialized as one of the first video games; descendants are still {feep}ing in video arcades everywhere. From mac at Wireless.Com Thu Jul 5 21:17:59 2001 From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <008301c105e3$51fc7860$d226b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: A question is: was SpaceWar on the PDP-1 the -first- video game? Clearly there had been CRT output devices on computers before the PDP-1, but did anybody write any games for them? -Mike On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by > E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships > duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and > jumping through hyperspace. This game was first implemented on the > PDP-1 at MIT in 1960--61. SPACEWAR aficionados formed the core of > the early hacker culture at MIT. Nine years later, a descendant > of the game motivated Ken Thompson to build, in his spare time on a > scavenged PDP-7, the operating system that became {{UNIX}}. Less > than nine years after that, SPACEWAR was commercialized as one of > the first video games; descendants are still {feep}ing in video > arcades everywhere. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 00:14:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <000701c1058d$1cff3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the check I wrote for >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one is making >a bit >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the >tray's >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there is once in a >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. It's toothless, >though and doesn't shred the paper. Replace the pickup roller or carefully clean it using a rubber restoritive (I bought mine at Fry's, any "real" electronic supply have it or be able to order a bottle for about $7 to $10). BTW I have in my hoard quite a bit of printer replacement parts, but not much knowledge, so if you know a part number and/or have a picture email me and I can look. Places like Printerworks aren't a bad choice either. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 6 01:33:22 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question" (Jul 5, 19:20) References: <20010706022047.88038.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10107060733.ZM28150@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 5, 19:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use > > How could I tell? The LJIII cards are the size of my hand with a centered > set of edge card fingers on on short end. They are 1/2 the size of LJ4 > cards. I thought the cards were the same, but the LJ4 has an extra blanking plate? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jul 6 02:27:30 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller In-Reply-To: <3B44EA46.3338CA@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200107060727.JAA24708@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 5 Jul, Michael Davidson wrote: > I seem to recall that > constructing a suitable 50 way to 34 way cable adaptor is > relatively simple, but again I would appreciate references or > more information from anyone who has done this kind of thing > recently. I have two different RXV21 emulating QBus to Shugart SA8?? adaptors. I soldered a cable according to the folowing URLs and it works with 5,25" floppies. http://nemesis.lonestar.org/computers/tandy/hardware/model16_6000/floppyfix.html http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/8-525.html -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 6 03:05:11 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <10107060733.ZM28150@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20010706022047.88038.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706010155.02f87080@mail.zipcon.net> The lasterjet4 and newer use MIO cards, the LAsterjet 3 and 2 use XIO cards and the 2p / 3p use a custom backplate. Xio cards are between 2 and 3 inches wide and about 4 or 5 inches long. Mio cards are roughly 4x5 ish At 06:33 AM 7/6/01 +0000, you wrote: >On Jul 5, 19:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? > > > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use > > > > How could I tell? The LJIII cards are the size of my hand with a >centered > > set of edge card fingers on on short end. They are 1/2 the size of LJ4 > > cards. > >I thought the cards were the same, but the LJ4 has an extra blanking plate? > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Thu Jul 5 12:49:24 2001 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter Message-ID: <20010706081047.F252736C00@pandora.worldonline.nl> Doug, Run ZRQCH0 under XXDP(+?) to format the RD's. If your 11/83 has a serial line at 176500/300 you can even load XXDP from a PC emulating a TU58. I routinely do this. Wim ---------- > From: Doug Carman > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RD53 formatter > Date: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:52 PM > > I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 > drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O > errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 > controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the > RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was > there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? > > Thanks. > > -- > Doug Carman > pdp11@bellsouth.net > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 6 04:38:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107060251.TAA07472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200107060251.TAA07472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >Since we're talking Amiga upgrades, a knowledgeable Amiga guru I spoke to >told me that the GVP A530 I have attached to my A500 only takes those >funky 64-pin SIMMs. Are these the same SIMMs the Mac IIfx required? I'm sure Iggy or Gareth will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the A530 uses the proprietary GVP SIMMs that were only used in GVP items. Thankfully my GVP HD+ on my A500 uses regular 30pin SIMMs. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Wolfgang.Eichberger at bps.at Fri Jul 6 05:34:58 2001 From: Wolfgang.Eichberger at bps.at (Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) Message-ID: Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. I think HPUX 5.? is still running... Thanx, Wolfgang Eichberger O?. Boden und Baustoffpr?fstelle GmbH c/o Eichberger Wolfgang K?rntnerstra?e 12 4021 Linz Tel.: 0732/7720-2655 Fax.: 0732/7720-2918 Homepage: www.bps.at From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 6 07:09:04 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Even on some parts, HP Partsdirect isn't bad as their price includes standard shipping, within the US. MCM electronics carries all sorts of rubber rejuvenators but the pickup roller on the II/III series is a foamy kind of rubber and sometimes react strangely to the rubber treatments. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:15 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question -> -> -> >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the -> check I wrote for -> >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one -> is making -> >a bit -> >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the -> >tray's -> >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there -> is once in a -> >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. -> It's toothless, -> >though and doesn't shred the paper. -> -> Replace the pickup roller or carefully clean it using a rubber -> restoritive -> (I bought mine at Fry's, any "real" electronic supply have it or -> be able to -> order a bottle for about $7 to $10). -> -> BTW I have in my hoard quite a bit of printer replacement parts, but not -> much knowledge, so if you know a part number and/or have a -> picture email me -> and I can look. Places like Printerworks aren't a bad choice either. -> -> From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 6 07:09:02 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706010155.02f87080@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: And the newer machine than the MIO's use EIO - such as the 4000 series and others. I have an unused II/III series XIO in a box around here, maybe I'll dig it out and post the HP type and part number. The customs for the P types are almost impossible to locate anymore since I think they weren't big sellers and cost too much so HP cut production on them. Of course ANY parallel type printer can use a generic print server, attached to the printer port, OR use an old 386 or 486 machine w/ network card as a print server to take the load off the other machines. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Reed -> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 3:05 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question -> -> -> The lasterjet4 and newer use MIO cards, the LAsterjet 3 and 2 -> use XIO cards -> and the 2p / 3p use a custom backplate. -> -> Xio cards are between 2 and 3 inches wide and about 4 or 5 inches long. -> -> Mio cards are roughly 4x5 ish -> -> At 06:33 AM 7/6/01 +0000, you wrote: -> >On Jul 5, 19:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: -> > > -> > > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: -> > > > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? -> > > > -> > > > -Lawrence LeMay -> > > > -> > > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use -> > > -> > > How could I tell? The LJIII cards are the size of my hand with a -> >centered -> > > set of edge card fingers on on short end. They are 1/2 the -> size of LJ4 -> > > cards. -> > -> >I thought the cards were the same, but the LJ4 has an extra -> blanking plate? -> > -> >-- -> >Pete Peter Turnbull -> > Network Manager -> > University of York -> From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 6 08:00:29 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My point was that AD was a computer game, and a lot of people played it on teletypes. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Mike Cheponis wrote: > A question is: was SpaceWar on the PDP-1 the -first- video game? Clearly > there had been CRT output devices on computers before the PDP-1, but did > anybody write any games for them? > > -Mike > > > On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by > > E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships > > duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and > > jumping through hyperspace. This game was first implemented on the > > PDP-1 at MIT in 1960--61. SPACEWAR aficionados formed the core of > > the early hacker culture at MIT. Nine years later, a descendant > > of the game motivated Ken Thompson to build, in his spare time on a > > scavenged PDP-7, the operating system that became {{UNIX}}. Less > > than nine years after that, SPACEWAR was commercialized as one of > > the first video games; descendants are still {feep}ing in video > > arcades everywhere. > From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Fri Jul 6 08:02:41 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (gareth.knight@btinternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga question Message-ID: <3b45b6f1.3483.0@btinternet.com> Jeff wrote: Correct. The accelerator used GVP 64 pin SIMMS. It can use two 1 Meg SIMM32's, or two 4 Meg SIMM32's. However, it is not possible to mix different sized SIMMs. Gareth Knight From owad at applefritter.com Fri Jul 6 08:06:15 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010706130615.16339@mail.earthlink.net> > SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by > E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships > duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and > jumping through hyperspace. This game was first implemented on the > PDP-1 at MIT in 1960--61. SPACEWAR aficionados formed the core of > the early hacker culture at MIT. Nine years later, a descendant > of the game motivated Ken Thompson to build, in his spare time on a > scavenged PDP-7, the operating system that became {{UNIX}}. Less > than nine years after that, SPACEWAR was commercialized as one of > the first video games; descendants are still {feep}ing in video > arcades everywhere. Are there any ports of SPACEWAR to the Mac or PC that are completely true to the original? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jul 6 08:06:30 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <816.587T1150T174471optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 6 Jul 2001 0:17:23 +0100 Iggy Drougge wrote: > Davison, Lee skrev: > >Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos > > Does anyone here have an Atmos? Yes! > It's really an adorable design on the outside, > with that black and red colour scheme. Indeed. I have one with a natty little cloth dust cover, so it's in good condition. I have some manuals and software, too. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Fri Jul 6 08:12:35 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (gareth.knight@btinternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga question Message-ID: <3b45b943.45b2.0@btinternet.com> Ethan wrote: That is a slight exageration. C= Engineering had some prototype motherboard designs but it wasn't near to a finished layout. The A4000 case was originally designed for one of the A1000+ configurations. Commodore management decided to salvage part of this development by using the case in their AGA 'big box' Amiga. Kind Regards, Gareth Knight From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 06:32:44 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512B5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > I thought the first game was AD on early CDCs and later on IBM S/36s? > Nope... in fact, Adventure was a relative late-comer, as Star Trek crept out of the DEC facility in Maynard, MA, and spread across the academic computing landscape in 1967. Adventure was written in 1970. -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 6 08:38:41 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? In-Reply-To: <001e01c105a9$01dc20e0$0101010a@pentium2> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706080836.01ee3d70@pc> At 12:19 AM 7/6/01 +0100, Gareth Knight wrote: >I'm not sure about writing directly to a hardfile. I find it more useful to >copy the hard disk to a Windows directory and have the emulator use this as >a virtual hard disk. It is easier to manipulate file formats using the two >operating systems. It looks like the Amiga Forever (commercial $30) package includes a tool called "Amiga Explorer" to mount an Amiga's drive over the network to the emulator, which would allow you to copy the remote hard drive partition to a new emulated hardfile, because it's a file system. Amiga Explorer is a Windows namespace extension, placing your networked Amiga on the same level of as "My Computer", which would allow you to copy to a hardfile while using the emulator: http://www.softhut.com/cloanto/aexplorer_screen1.html I would guess that what I created with 'packdev' is an exact copy of the partition's blocks, but minus the other partition info that's no doubt included in the hardfile. I'd feel like I'd truly archived my Amiga if I had a hardfile, written from the Amiga and stored as a single file across the network. I don't like the feel of these networked filesystems, mapping between Windows and Amiga. I know deep in my heart some bits will be lost, be they file comments, improperly mapped and remapped characters, file attribute bits, etc. - John From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jul 6 08:51:28 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jul 6, 1 05:38:30 am" Message-ID: <200107061351.GAA10816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I'm sure Iggy or Gareth will correct me if I'm wrong, but I > believe the A530 uses the proprietary GVP SIMMs that were only used > in GVP items. Thankfully my GVP HD+ on my A500 uses regular 30pin > SIMMs. I'm just wondering if the pinout is the same, since I do know they're 64 pin. I can get my hands on IIfx memory "fairly cheaply" (this is a relative term). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Please dispose of this message in the usual manner. -- Mission: Impossible - From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 6 08:47:43 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? In-Reply-To: <1573.587T1650T44927optimus@canit.se> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706081234.01e69ef0@pc> At 12:04 AM 7/6/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >I recall reading a document about how someone transferred his HD to a HDF >file, and I actually believe that he used Transdisk. According to the HDF file format docs, an HDF differs from an ADF (floppy) file in that it has "a bootblock, a rootblock, a [block] bitmap and perhaps dircache blocks." >OTOH you could try >connecting the drives directly to the PC and do a "dd" or similar. I saw a tool to do that, but it warned that sometimes the drive becomes unreadable. It doesn't sound like a read-only tool. I don't understand why they'd write to the disk if I didn't ask it to. >Another idea would be to start UAE, install AmiTCP, or at least amiganetfs, >and transfer the disk contents that way. I think I'd lose information. I don't trust the mapping of filename characters, for example. I doubt Amiga file comments would be preserved via NFS, too. As I said, I've already got an NFS link to my PC. I can easily "copy dh10:#? NTp: all" and send the files as files to my PC, but I don't want to spend hours figuring out which files were lost. Having an HDF file on my PC would be delightful. I installed a Windows program called ADF View. It's a Windows Explorer extension for ADF and HDF files, meaning now those two file extensions have their own icon linked to this program, and when you click on an HDF file, it opens a new Explorer window and lets you browse the HDF file as if it were part of the Windows file system. Very handy! - John From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jul 6 08:59:47 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller References: <3B44EA46.3338CA@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <007e01c10623$ead78760$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I have the manual for this board. I seem to recall that it's one of the old style manuals that give you theory of operation and a lot of detailed info. I also have two of the boards, and two 8" half height floppy drives. I'm not greatly attached to any of this. I've just been letting it ripen in the attic until someone came along that was interested. There was some discussion about these boards, and how they accomplish boot without a ROM, a month or two ago. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Davidson" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:29 PM Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller > While searching through my collection of old Qbus cards I just > discovered that I have a DSD 4140, which appears to be an RX02 > compatible interface to Shugart SA800 or SA850 drives. > > The only documentation that I have is a small reference card > which has the jumper configuration and a summary of the commands > (from which it appears that the controller also supports > formatting drives with a write sector command followed by a > couple of magic values written to the data register). > > Does anyone have any more information / documentation for this > controller? > > Since I don't have any 8" Shugart interface drives available > I'm probably going to have to hook this thing up to a 5.25" > or a 3.5" drive in order to try it out. I seem to recall that > constructing a suitable 50 way to 34 way cable adaptor is > relatively simple, but again I would appreciate references or > more information from anyone who has done this kind of thing > recently. > > Michael > From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jul 6 09:05:46 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010706090546.009ba210@ubanproductions.com> Yes, the smears seem to be independent of what I print. The image is there, but covered in places by non-uniform "smears" of black. Yes, they appear on the test page (there is only one) as well. Also, the smears are fused to the paper... --tom >OK, can you describe these smears a bit more? Are the independant of what >you're trying to print (text .vs. graphics, for example). Do they occur >on the formatter test page (the one where it prints out the fonts, etc). >Do they occur on the engine test page (if you can produce one) -- the one >with vertical lines only on it? > >I'm wondering if the engine is actually alright, and the problem is >actually due to memory errors on the formatter board (or the logic that >transfers the bitmap from the memory to the laser). > >-tony > > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jul 6 09:08:23 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <008301c105e3$51fc7860$d226b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010706090823.009b62b0@ubanproductions.com> I think this site was referenced before on this group: http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/ This seems to be about as close as you can get to the original PDP1 version of the game, without a PDP1 to play it on... --tom From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jul 6 09:18:43 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! References: <200106300410.f5U4Anb13819@wlv.to.gd-es.com> Message-ID: <008601c10626$92205180$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I got the driver to come up on a second controller in E11. Evidently the PRO350 RA driver would only work as a root drive, which is attached via some other mechanism that I am not familiar with. What I did to get it to autoconfig was create an "raprobe" routine that simply returned the status code that says "it's OK and you don't need to look for an interrupt". Crude, but the target machine won't work without the controller present. Now I need to work on the boot sector. The problem is that rauboot.s in the distribution is corrupt, in both the tree and the tar version. See file http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9-pro350/ mdec/rauboot.s, the line that begins "NDIRIN = 4." ends in garbage, and there is a chunk of code missing. One of the doc files, I think boot.doc, has the same problem. It seems that the disk from which the 2.9BSD-PRO patch distribution was prepared was slightly scrambled. There is a chunk of C code right in the middle of the doc in place of some important info. I've been able to reconstruct most of rauboot.s by comparing with other boot programs, except I need the snippet of code for initializing the MSCP controller. I can probably figure this out from the 2.11 driver, but I'd much rather not have to. The 2.11 driver is very different. Does anyone know where I can get the original file? -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven M. Schultz" To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD > Hi -- > > I'd normally be posting from my '2bsd.com' account but the circuit > failed today and the telco is due out tomorrow (Saturday) morning. > > > From: "Jonathan Engdahl" > > I took the MSCP disk driver (the ra driver) from the PRO-350 > > version of 2.9BSD on the PUPS archive, and added it to the > > Ah, I didn't know that someone had created a MSCP driver for 2.9 > > > I have figured out that the autoconfig will not work with this > > driver. It reports "No autoconfig routines". Evidently, probe is > > not implemented in either the 2.9 or 2.11 version of the MSCP driver. > > > I don't know about 2.9 but I do know just a little bit about 2.11 > and the MSCP (and TMSCP) drivers 'probe' and "autoconfig" just fine. > > In fact in 2.11 floating vectors are allocated descending from 01000 > and programmed into the adaptor for secondary controllers (the > primary/first/boot controller always gets 0154). > > > So, how to I get UNIX to "attach" the ra driver? > > When you updated the kernel did you also update the 'autoconfig' > process? In 2.11 there is /sys/autoconfig and whenever a new > device driver is added to the kernel it is also necessary to > update the autoconfig code with a 'XXauto.c" file and an entry > in a couple tables. > > As I recall on 2.9 the autoconf stuff was intermingled with the > regular driver sources which made for a bit of a mess. When 2.11 > came around the chance was taken to clean things up. > > Programmable vector devices (such as MSCP) are a VERY awkward thing > for 'autoconfig' to deal with. Prior to 2.11 the vectors were > more or less hardcoded in 'l.s' (or was it scb.s or locore.s - gads > my memory is slipping) and the driver. 'autoconfig' was mostly a > double check that a device was really present. 2.11 has the kernel > hooks for 'autoconfig' to request a dynamically allocated vector > which can be assigned to a device - bit of a hack but fairly > elegantly done. > > > This is the first time I've tried doing a UNIX sysgen, so extra > > explanations might be required. The only documentation I have is > > what I downloaded along with the distribution. > > Look in /sys/pdpuba and see if you can find the '*auto.c' files - > follow their lead and craft something for 'autoconfig'. The > simplest case is to just "check that something exists" at the > CSR and return 'true' - don't try to force an interrupt, etc. > > Perhaps some other folks who have run 2.9 more recently (or who > have better memory than I do ;)) can jump in here. > > Steven Schultz > sms@moe.2bsd.com (when the circuit gets fixed ;)) > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 09:25:31 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: <20010706042802.97558.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c10627$83327da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's not at all clear to me how, exactly, the JetLan (not an HP Jet-Direct) board is intended to be used. The software install makes it appear to Windows as a network printer, yet it doesn't appear to be able to print to it. The test software I downloaded back when I got the board (about 6 years ago or so) was able to make the printer print a test, so that appears to be functional. Nevertheless, without a print queue on the Netware server, it doesn't seem to work, yet it doesn't seem to allow the setup of a print queue that uses it either. Clearly there's some key thing I don't know about this device. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I've got a JetLan board that I'd use if I were smart enough. I've had this > > thing 6-7 years now, but, though the OS knows about it, I can't get it woring > > through either Windows or Netware. > > I've got one of these, too, but I thought I would have to have a Netware > Server on the network to feed it. > > I got mine in a grab bag at Dayton a few years ago. It's 10Base2, and > the large chips on it are an 80C188 (CPU), DP83902V (Ethernet), an ASP- > branded gate array ("GBIM ASB4101") and an EPROM ("JETLAN 00065-000-2.33") > > I'm looking for a card with better OS support, but if I could get this > one working, I'd be satisfied with it. > > If I have to run print jobs through a server, the only thing I have that could > fit the bill is a SPARC-LX running Solaris 7. If I have to have a dedicated > server, I might as well build a Linux box and hang the printer off the > parallel port. I have 0 interest in getting into Netware. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 09:25:10 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <009201c105b3$941e8ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706101417.00ab2960@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:05 AM 7/6/01 +0930, you wrote: > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all >citizens vote. > >Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually >all of the eligible voters. >It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US >elections actually bother to vote. FWIW in the last election, some precients here in Florida had more than a 97% turnout. My person opinion, if someone is too lazy to register and/or vote I don't want them voting anyway. In the last election, the democrats realized that they were in trouble here in Florida and they issued a last minute plea for more "mininories" to get out and vote at the last minute. That's what lead to a lot of the voter confusion and un-counted votes. Many of those last minute voters had never registered and most of them didn't even know that they had to go to a voting place IN THEIR OWN DISTRICT. They simply went to the first voting palce that they found and DEMANDED to vote. Of course, they were turned away and told that they had to vote in their own district but since they hadn't bothered to even find out were that was they ran out of time before they could vote. Joe From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 08:07:43 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <009201c105b3$941e8ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: >> I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all >citizens vote. > >Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually >all of the eligible voters. >It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US >elections actually bother to vote. SIGH Here in Orange, California we just had a recall election for 3 members of the school board. Nasty campaign, especially so on the recall side, no others issues on the ballot, and just two weeks after another special election so turnout was less than 20% and all three members were recalled with about 51% vs 49%. What we have is an extremely agressive and politically active teachers union, which a few years back seized control of the board once before and voted teachers and all family members fully paid lifetime healthcare benefits. This was pure political gamesmanship. In the general election in November I am fairly sure at least 2 of these new union stooges will be tossed out, the third enherits a longer term. My personal anger is from two points, I was a lazy ass and didn't vote, and those who voted were easily swayed by a batch of negative mailings, including letters signed by every students actual teachers sent to parents. Politics, yuck. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 08:19:38 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <20010706011538.80184.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >to drop another 200% to get it working. It's slow, but works like a >champ now. The only thing I haven't tested is double-sided printing. > >Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use? I'd rather >throw this thing on the network than waste my only print-server port >on it. Once you do a basic service like that on one of these old workhorses, they last for years and many many pages. The only real downside is that they are big and heavy, not so much slow as long as they have plenty of memory. As I mentioned before, I have a LOT of parts, but don't know that much about which goes to what, but I am "pretty" sure I have some JetDirect 10bt cards, plus I am 100% sure I have memory expansion boards. Email me directly if you want me to look. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 08:10:00 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jul 5, 1 07:19:06 pm Message-ID: >> >> As I said, the problem is not one of a dirty machine or paper path. I have >> replaced the toner cartridge (as suggested) with no improvement... > >OK, can you describe these smears a bit more? Are the independant of what One thing I have noticed is that sometimes pages printed from my browser may have what appears to be smears, and turns out to be some poorly rendered bit of page background. From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jul 6 09:40:21 2001 From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! References: <200106300410.f5U4Anb13819@wlv.to.gd-es.com> <008601c10626$92205180$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <3B45CDD5.9BCA95C4@tampabay.rr.com> Hi Jonathan, I believe I contributed this on behalf of Rick. I've checked my own archives of this data and still have the original *.tar.gz file I bundled back in 1992 of this tree. It is 63Kb in this form. I would be happy to uuencode/attach it and mail it to you if you wish. Yes, I just took a look at the PUPS archive and indeed this file has been damaged. I'm happy to see the copy I have elsewhere is still okay. Warren, how shall I pass you this tar bundle for a refresh on the PUPS archive for this? Cheers, -- Ken Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > I got the driver to come up on a second controller in E11. > Evidently the PRO350 RA driver would only work as a root drive, > which is attached via some other mechanism that I am not > familiar with. What I did to get it to autoconfig was create an > "raprobe" routine that simply returned the status code that says > "it's OK and you don't need to look for an interrupt". Crude, > but the target machine won't work without the controller > present. > > Now I need to work on the boot sector. The problem is that > rauboot.s in the distribution is corrupt, in both the tree and > the tar version. See file > http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9-pro350/ > mdec/rauboot.s, the line that begins "NDIRIN = 4." ends in > garbage, and there is a chunk of code missing. > > One of the doc files, I think boot.doc, has the same problem. It > seems that the disk from which the 2.9BSD-PRO patch distribution > was prepared was slightly scrambled. There is a chunk of C code > right in the middle of the doc in place of some important info. > > I've been able to reconstruct most of rauboot.s by comparing > with other boot programs, except I need the snippet of code for > initializing the MSCP controller. I can probably figure this out > from the 2.11 driver, but I'd much rather not have to. The 2.11 > driver is very different. > > Does anyone know where I can get the original file? > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation > Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road > Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA > Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 6 09:44:35 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ebay: Heathkit IT-21 Tube Checker Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1614357896 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/b26ae6b7/attachment.html From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:50:17 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <000701c1062a$f99e78b0$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:50:28 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <001501c1062b$94390610$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:54:37 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <001601c1062b$9bc93620$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi, sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also has a floppy controller for scale) 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:54:42 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <001901c1062b$a2b5ac20$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi, sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also has a floppy controller for scale) 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:54:54 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <001e01c1062b$a9748270$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi, sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also has a floppy controller for scale) 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:55:02 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <002501c1062b$b0736f00$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi, sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also has a floppy controller for scale) 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 09:55:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706105029.00a0eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:35 PM 7/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >Joe writes > > > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the > >52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) > > > > Joe > >I thought Canada was a province or is it a colony? :) That's funny, in the winter Florida looks like a colony of Quebec! > What does it take to >upgrade from a province or a colony to be a US state? >I think they meet the basic requirements >1. Beer I hope so. It's about time we had some decent beer in this country! >2. Speak English (sort of) I think that's been changed to Spanish! >3. Dollars But they need to be US $. The Canadian ones aren't worth bringing across the border any more! >Now that I think about it, Utah may fail on the Beer part. Kick out Utah, >replace with Canada. Kansas fails it too. Let's kick out Kansas and replace it with something better. Let's see, Yoguslavia will do! >(Remember it's attempted humor) >Mike :-) Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 09:58:39 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010706145839.50511.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > Once you do a basic service like that on one of these old workhorses, they > last for years and many many pages. The great news about this $15 printer is that the page count from the Postscript test page is about 6500 (the PCL test page shows 35). It's a university surplus printer, so either it was tucked away in the back of a Mac lab (has LocalTalk) or it was recently heavily refurbed. I know how generous my alma mater is... it was almost certainly ignored for its entire working life to only have 6500 pages show. There was a stripped gear in the fuser assy. ($0.87 from printerworks.com) so perhaps it worked for a while, suffered some user abuse from clearing paper jams and sat for several years until recently hauled away. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:57:01 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: apoliogies References: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> from"Tom Uban" at Jul 5, 1 07:19:06 pm Message-ID: <003d01c1062b$ea5fc5b0$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> I have no idea why or how outlook just did that.. Sorry - Mike From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 09:58:16 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706105657.00a19160@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:02 PM 7/3/01 -0600, Will J wrote: >Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called >dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... I can see it now, Ganja beer! Joe From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 10:00:48 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512B9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Are there any ports of SPACEWAR to the Mac or PC that are > completely true to the original? To add a little more detail to Tom Uban's reply, the version of Spacewar you get from the website url he listed is the *actual* *original* binary executable of the Spacewar program. It runs on an emulated PDP-1 that's written in Java and which gets downloaded to your PC or Mac when you go to the web page. So, the Spacewar *program* is as close to the original as possible, since it *is* the original. The real question to ask, is how close to a real PDP-1 does the emulator come? Regards, -doug q From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 10:02:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110047.00a0f3b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:54 AM 7/4/01 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > > > Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of > > Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by > > about ten years. > >Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. The students >open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely >spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I >apparently didn't learn much. That's ok. I'm sure the confederation is not somehting that they like to talk about. The constitution is what created our federal government and eventually lead the screwing of the American public. Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 10:07:59 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010706150759.90579.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > Of course ANY parallel type printer can use a generic print server, > attached to the printer port, Right. I have an LJ4ML on an HP JetExpress? standalone print server. It's one of the last models that _can't_ use their web adminstration (not enough Flash ROM to load it). I got it for $10 at a tent sale, updated the firmware then got JetAdmin from HPs website before they took it down (they had an announcement posted in January that the older JetAdmin stuff was obsolete and would be phased out during this year) I haven't tried to use it from a Mac (not sure what driver it would need), but it works great from WinBlows and UNIX. That just leaves AmigaDOS and VMS to support, at least on my LAN. :-) > OR use an old 386 or 486 machine w/ network > card as a print server to take the load off the other machines. I have plenty of equipment to do this, but I'd rather not take up the space or the electricity. I'd much rather have an internal card since the printer _has_ a slot. Unfortunately, the LJIIID can't service multiple I/O ports simultaneously like the LJ4ML can. I had the 4ML hooked to a PeeCee and a LocalTalk network and shot jobs from both sides of the house to it. Nice feature. It'd better be... I bought that 4ML new for $1100 'cause I wanted Postscript. > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Reed > -> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 3:05 AM > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question > -> > -> > -> The lasterjet4 and newer use MIO cards, the LAsterjet 3 and 2 > -> use XIO cards > -> > -> Xio cards are between 2 and 3 inches wide and about 4 or 5 inches long. > -> > -> Mio cards are roughly 4x5 ish > -> > -> At 06:33 AM 7/6/01 +0000, you wrote: > -> >On Jul 5, 19:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > -> > > How could I tell? >From the description, I require an XIO card. I have an XIO LocalTalk card that the printer came with, and a JetLan (Novell?) XIO card that seems to require some kind of software that I don't have. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 10:14:09 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >Sellam Ismail wisely wrote: > > Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very > > disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have > > ended up with today :( > >Well said! All that most of the present politicians in the >U.S. appear to be concerned with today are taxation, oppression, >lining their pockets with cash, and being pawns of business interests. >Why don't they just rename the USA to something like the United Police >State of America and have it over with? > >Back something slightly more on-topic: how many here, when giving >further tought to the pros and cons of computers get the feeling that >we'd all be better off if computers and some related technology didn't >exist? I know that I'd have a lot more time! Ebay, the internet, mailing lists and the like EAT time! > I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are >being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their >facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt >to "catch criminals." WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never heard it. > In other words, they're comparing people's >faces to pictures of criminals in a database. Those seen talking with >suspected criminals, or those with similar faces, become suspects as >well. Very Orwellian. Why people aren't shooting at the cameras and >protesting against their use, I don't know or understand. I guess >that "good little citizens of the state" (foolish, senseless, people) >ought not do such things. You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones that we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the like. We have very few cameras in public areas. FWIW I went to London a couple of years ago and I was amazed at how many cameras they had. Nearly every street corner has one, the Underground (sub-way) stations are full of them and every store had a battery of them. Also I saw something in the news about the UK police setting up a video recognition system that's supposed to be tied in the the cameras in the Underground stations. It's supposed to look for known wanted criminals and alert the police if any of them are spotted in the stations. Does anyone know if that system has gone into opeation or how effective it is? Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 10:18:20 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! In-Reply-To: <3B45CDD5.9BCA95C4@tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <20010706151820.50106.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ken Wellsch wrote: > Yes, I just took a look at the PUPS archive and indeed this file > has been damaged. I'm happy to see the copy I have elsewhere is > still okay. Is the PRO350 distro of 2.9BSD on the 4-CD set of ancient Unices? I'd look at the label myself, but I'm at work and it isn't. I'm glad this stuff has been preserved... I had a copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy of 2.9BSD on 1600BPI magtape that fell on me from a DEC Field-Servoid about 15 years ago, but the source tape had read errors. :-( I even have some Pro hardware sitting in a corner - lots of it hit the thrift stores about 6 years ago - you could get a complete system for $10. I even had someone come to my house to give one away! It has VENIX on it and works, but he forgot the root password and I never had the time to go crack it. In any case, I'd love to drop a larger disk on it (larger than the RD52 that's in there) and spin up some BSD. When you get this all working, I'd love to hear about it. I don't have any Qbus PDP-11s better than a KDF-11, so I'm kinda locked out of 2.11BSD. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jul 6 10:28:34 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: <200107042117.QAA01576@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:17:02 -0500 (CDT) Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > As for the CDC card reader, it definitely was MUCH faster, probably > > at least 10 times the speed. The feed mechanism used air to move the > > card though the slot past the photo cells. According to the "A few good men from Univac", the CDC Model 405 card reader was built for speed, and worked optically. It had a car headlamp bulb and a row of photodiodes. The card was read twice, and the results compared, any discrepancies sending the card to a "reject" bin. > I think (i dont have the book handy) that in "A few good men from Univac" > the author discusses some of the CDC card reader history. Can someone > who has a copy hand verify this? It does describe the 405, but it doesn't mention anything about Univac using the CDC reader. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 10:29:36 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706111546.00a24d90@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:59 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what > song > > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. > >Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled >in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. No, they need to enroll him in a course in Iran, Iraq or any of the numerious other counties that have zero personal freedom. >It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. I wonder >if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of >Maryland. >Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap >guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical >politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, >then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting Soon to be banned since it's bad for the Ozone. >and a >watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, Banned due to the risk of personal injury! > which was followed later on >in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, >bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic >displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) Bad, Bad, Bad! >Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; >we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South >Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West >Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the >border that were selling the fireworks. You'd like it here in Florida. Fireworks have made a real come back. I was outside on the 3rd and 4th and fireworks were popping off in every direction all day and all night long. It's still technically illegal to shoot them but it's seldom enforced now. Around this time of year and on January 1, every major intersection has a large stand selling fireworks. Most of them are the wimpy class C stuff but they make up for it in shear volume. There are even a number of stores that sell nothing but fireworks that are now open year round. I stopped at one at I-95 and SR 520 and stocked up the week before. In addition, there were at least 6 very large (and free) fireworks shoots in the area and a couple more at the expensive parks like Disney and Universal. >Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal >fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after >all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason >for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give >people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more >vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt >politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising >every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be >thunk by good little citizens, what? Agreed! Joe (member of the Florida Pyrotechnics Arts Guild) From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 6 10:27:49 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706105657.00a19160@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706102647.01e57100@pc> At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > I can see it now, Ganja beer! Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. - John From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 10:48:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706102647.01e57100@pc> Message-ID: <001101c10633$0f428140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Just keep in mind that "The only good druggie is a dead one!" Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:27 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > > I can see it now, Ganja beer! > > Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can > graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. > > - John > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 6 11:08:45 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, John Honniball wrote: > According to the "A few good men from Univac", the CDC > Model 405 card reader was built for speed, and worked > optically. It had a car headlamp bulb and a row of > photodiodes. The card was read twice, and the results > compared, any discrepancies sending the card to a "reject" > bin. Hmmmm. While not explicitly wanting to cast doubt on the credibility of the book, ... Can anyone here confirm whether the book got those particular facts right? From personal experience! NOT from some other book that got its "facts" from this one! 1) At that time, automobile headlights were big, bulky, and inefficient. Halogen bulbs were readily available, (for example, had come out for home movie lighting), but were NOT available YET as automotive headlights. Halogen automotive headlights became available later, but weren't legal for several more decades. The automobile headlight was WAY too big to be practical for that purpose, and the card reader would not have any need for that much light. On the other hand, that was right when automobile TAILlight bulbs reached their all time peak popularity for other uses, such as the "Tensor" or "high intensity" domestic reading light that consisted of a taillight bulb and a transformer. THAT would be a VERY useful size for building into such equipment. I USED TO have a chunk of surplus optics from a card reader (no idea what make) that appeared to be based on a small light source. (such as a halogen movie light bulb, or a TAILlight bulb) 2) Except for voting in Florida, would you want a card that failed to read consistently to be REMOVED FROM SEQUENCE in the deck???!? Having the computer produce an appropriate error message, and maybe even the offset from the beginning of the file^H^H^H^H deck, would be the correct way to handle it. In a purely data file, where the quantity of data doesn't much matter, it could be OK. But there are too many situations where you would NOT want to continue with the processing of the file if there are corrupted records, and users would be IRATE to have the corrupted records taken out of sequence! ("Hmmmm. Where in the program did this damaged 'N = N + 1' belong?") -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jul 6 11:14:46 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! In-Reply-To: <20010706151820.50106.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c10636$c6450fe0$664199a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Ken Wellsch just sent me a clean version of the Pro350 patches. Getting 2.9BSD running on a very small generic KDF11-A machine is what this is all about. I'll let you know when I get it to boot on real hardware. In fact, the whole world will know. ;-) The build I am working on will not run on a Pro. I don't have one to try it on. I'm extracting only the MSCP-specific software from the Pro patches and adding it to the regular 2.9 distribution from the PUPS archive. It appears that the pro350 patches are for a later release of 2.9 than the vanilla 2.9BSD PUPS distribution. When I compared some of the files other than the ra driver, there appeared to be a lot more stuff added than would be justified by the addition of the PRO-specific hardware. When I realized this, I thought about upgrading, and looked at the 2.9BSD-Patch distribution, but that looked like a major undertaking, which would require me to actually understand what I was doing, so I decided not to. -- Jonathan Engdahl???????????????? Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer????? 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology????????????? Euclid, OH 44117, USA Euclid Labs????????????????????? engdahl@cle.ab.com 216-266-6409 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 11:18 AM > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is > corrupt! > > > > --- Ken Wellsch wrote: > > Yes, I just took a look at the PUPS archive and indeed this file > > has been damaged. I'm happy to see the copy I have elsewhere is > > still okay. > > Is the PRO350 distro of 2.9BSD on the 4-CD set of ancient Unices? I'd > look at the label myself, but I'm at work and it isn't. > > I'm glad this stuff has been preserved... I had a copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy > of 2.9BSD on 1600BPI magtape that fell on me from a DEC > Field-Servoid about > 15 years ago, but the source tape had read errors. :-( > > I even have some Pro hardware sitting in a corner - lots of it hit the > thrift stores about 6 years ago - you could get a complete system for $10. > I even had someone come to my house to give one away! It has VENIX on it > and works, but he forgot the root password and I never had the time to > go crack it. In any case, I'd love to drop a larger disk on it (larger > than the RD52 that's in there) and spin up some BSD. > > When you get this all working, I'd love to hear about it. I > don't have any > Qbus PDP-11s better than a KDF-11, so I'm kinda locked out of 2.11BSD. > > -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 6 11:13:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001101c10633$0f428140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: No more ganja beer for Dick; he's had enough. On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Just keep in mind that "The only good druggie is a dead one!" > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Foust" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > > > I can see it now, Ganja beer! > > > > Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can > > graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. > > > > - John From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Fri Jul 6 11:13:34 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) Message-ID: > > You'd like it here in Florida. Fireworks have made a real come >back. I was outside on the 3rd and 4th and fireworks were popping off in >every direction all day and all night long. It's still technically illegal >to shoot them but it's seldom enforced now. Around this time of year and >on January 1, every major intersection has a large stand selling fireworks. >Most of them are the wimpy class C stuff but they make up for it in shear >volume. There are even a number of stores that sell nothing but fireworks >that are now open year round. I stopped at one at I-95 and SR 520 and >stocked up the week before. I think the state law here in Florida is that you cannot ignite any fireworks other than class "C" without a permit and permits are only given to professional pyromaniacs. Basically, that leaves sparklers and smoke bombs the only legal devices that individuals can display. However... In Broward County where I live, if you are over 18 and sign a waiver stating that you will not ignite them within the state, you can legally buy whatever kind of fireworks that you want. Cherry bombs, m-80s, arial displays (mortars), bottle rockets, roman candles, you name it. The sheriff will routinely check the vendors to make sure they are complying but once you leave the store, all bets are off. There is absolutely no enforcement of the restrictions on individuals. My ears are still ringing and I'm still choking from all the smoke. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jul 6 11:19:59 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706111729.02ba8c00@127.0.0.1> Joe, You seem to be wrong on both counts (don't take personal offense to that...). Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html You don't actually believe that you would be informed that your state government was going to be watching did you? I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family. Gives me the shivers..... - Matt >> I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are >>being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their >>facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt >>to "catch criminals." > > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never > heard it. > > > You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones > that we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the > like. We have very few cameras in public areas. > > Joe "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jul 6 11:20:50 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <200107061620.MAA15894@world.std.com> >> I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are >>being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their >>facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt >>to "catch criminals." > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never >heard it. You need to look around more... cameras are getting to be everywhere... and they are getting to be prevalent enough that news shows are starting to do segments about them and the privacy issues... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp890.monmouth.com Fri Jul 6 11:26:55 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp890.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! In-Reply-To: <20010706151820.50106.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 6, 2001 08:18:20 am" Message-ID: <200107061626.f66GQtd24809@bg-tc-ppp890.monmouth.com> > I even have some Pro hardware sitting in a corner - lots of it hit the > thrift stores about 6 years ago - you could get a complete system for $10. > I even had someone come to my house to give one away! It has VENIX on it > and works, but he forgot the root password and I never had the time to > go crack it. In any case, I'd love to drop a larger disk on it (larger > than the RD52 that's in there) and spin up some BSD. > > When you get this all working, I'd love to hear about it. I don't have any > Qbus PDP-11s better than a KDF-11, so I'm kinda locked out of 2.11BSD. > > -ethan > > The Venix distribution was up on the DECUS site so you can get it free... I'd have killed for the source code. I've got it archived on QIC-24 or QIC-150 somewhere. I also think Tim Shoppa had it up on his site. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 11:34:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Never touch the stuff! It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate of immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced a death-wish as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. by spitting on the sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of people, with a written apology issued in the unlikely even that someone unjustly punished complain because their rights have been violated. It's got to be like violating a law, any law, is equivalent to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. I've considered that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten iron be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the chance to enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > No more ganja beer for Dick; he's had enough. > > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Just keep in mind that "The only good druggie is a dead one!" > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Foust" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:27 AM > > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > > > > At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > > > > I can see it now, Ganja beer! > > > > > > Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can > > > graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. > > > > > > - John > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 11:39:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> <200107061620.MAA15894@world.std.com> Message-ID: <001901c1063a$2ce8ab00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's all in preparation for the day when there will be only one punishment for all crime ... and I still favor the immersion in molten iron for punishment. It would make a good show at halftime during the superbowl. Tie 'em to a steel rail and lower 'em into the pot at about 1" per second ... feet first, then tell the kids, "See? That's what happens if you don't go to school. That's what happens if you steal ... " Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:20 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > >> I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are > >>being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their > >>facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt > >>to "catch criminals." > > > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never > >heard it. > > You need to look around more... cameras are getting to be everywhere... > > and they are getting to be prevalent enough that news shows are starting > to do segments about them and the privacy issues... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 6 12:06:53 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I've never tried it. Is it illegal? Interesting concept about capital punishment for trivial crimes. Would that also be the punishment for failing to adequately trim quotes? When do we start? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Never touch the stuff! > > It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate of > immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced a death-wish > as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. by spitting on the > sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of people, with a written > apology issued in the unlikely even that someone unjustly punished complain > because their rights have been violated. It's got to be like violating a law, > any law, is equivalent to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. > I've considered that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten > iron be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass > murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the chance to > enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > No more ganja beer for Dick; he's had enough. > > > > > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > Just keep in mind that "The only good druggie is a dead one!" > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Foust" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:27 AM > > > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > > > > > > > At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > > > > > I can see it now, Ganja beer! > > > > > > > > Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can > > > > graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. > > > > > > > > - John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 6 12:32:30 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards In-Reply-To: "Mike" "please help ID a few Apple ][ boards" (Jul 6, 10:54) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> <001601c1062b$9bc93620$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <10107061832.ZM28614@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 6, 10:54, Mike wrote: > 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Not sure about the others (though A2cardsc.jpg looks familiar) but this one is an Apple Parallel Printer Interface Card, for an Epson or Centronics printer. Put it in slot 1 and type PR#1 to print. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 12:51:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706134613.00aaae80@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:13 PM 7/6/01 -0400, you wrote: >> You'd like it here in Florida. Fireworks have made a real come >>back. I was outside on the 3rd and 4th and fireworks were popping off in >>every direction all day and all night long. It's still technically illegal >>to shoot them but it's seldom enforced now. Around this time of year and >>on January 1, every major intersection has a large stand selling fireworks. >>Most of them are the wimpy class C stuff but they make up for it in shear >>volume. There are even a number of stores that sell nothing but fireworks >>that are now open year round. I stopped at one at I-95 and SR 520 and >>stocked up the week before. > >I think the state law here in Florida is that you cannot ignite any >fireworks other than class "C" without a permit and permits are only given >to professional pyromaniacs. Basically, that leaves sparklers and smoke >bombs the only legal devices that individuals can display. Actually you're allowed to buy them for "agriculturial use". That's is you can use them for scaring off birds and such from your crops. At first, the sellers were having everyone sign a statement that they were buying them for agriculturial use but now they just sell them to you with no questions asked. >However... In Broward County where I live, if you are over 18 and sign a >waiver stating that you will not ignite them within the state, you can >legally buy whatever kind of fireworks that you want. Cherry bombs, m-80s, >arial displays (mortars), bottle rockets, roman candles, you name it. Yes, but it' s all still class C unless you have a federal (BATF) license. Even then the stands don't carry the class B stuff, you have to buy it from a specialty supplier or manufacturer. Joe From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jul 6 13:08:23 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:06:53 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200107061808.f66I8OD06497@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote (after Richard Erlacher): > Interesting concept about capital punishment for trivial crimes. Would > that also be the punishment for failing to adequately trim quotes? When > do we start? Shortly after we have successful implementation of a universal requirement for authentication of e-mail senders. (Don't hold your breath.) -Frank McConnell From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 13:18:30 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706111729.02ba8c00@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706135937.00aabd20@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:19 AM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote: >Joe, > >You seem to be wrong on both counts (don't take personal offense to that...). > >Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html Interesting. That seems to be the same system that's supposed to be in use in London. BTW the description in the news-bite is NOT the same as that described in the original message. Tampa is using it to look for wanted criminals and not racial profiling. I for one don't have a problem with that but it would be easy (prehaps too easy) for the system to be abused or be modified to be invasive to law abiding citizens. While we're on this topic, I'm a lot more concerned about the commercail systems that tack people and their social and buying habits than I am with the government systems. A good example of one of the commercail systems is the soon to be implemented plan to install GPS systems in ALL cell phones. Weather you're aware of it or not, the cell phones are on and transmitting anytime that they're turned on. This means that your cell phone company will soon be able to track to within inches you anytime you have your cell phone turned on. A good example of what that means that they will know exactly where you shop and what sections of the store that you visit, even to the extent of what types of books you read basedon your location in book stores. That will be a gold mine of information to advertisers, tele-marketers and other low-lifes. In addition they will know where you work (and therefore a good idea of your income), the routes that you take to work, where you spend your vacations, where you eat, etc. It would be like having a private eye tailing yuou everywhere you went. >You don't actually believe that you would be informed that your state >government was going to be watching did you? Actually yes. Most of them are proud of their toys and they like to brag and show them off. It's also very informative to listen to some of the public hearings such as the police budget requests. That's how we found out that our Orange County sheriff wated a tank in case of riots at an international soccer match that was held here a few years ago. >I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates >at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit >family. Gives me the shivers..... That doesn't surprise me. They've been doing that at borders for years. Joe > - Matt > > > > > >>> I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are >>>being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their >>>facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt >>>to "catch criminals." >> >> WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never >> heard it. >> >> >> You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones >> that we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the >> like. We have very few cameras in public areas. >> >> Joe > > >"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > >Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 13:33:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? Message-ID: <20010706183323.79003.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> I have the chance to pick up a Lisa CPU unit only. It has a 3.5" drive visible from the front, no cards visible from the outside (couldn't open the back to look in), and does not come with keyboard or mouse. On the back are a video out jack, two 25-pin serial connections, a reset button and an interrupt button. The power switch lights up and is next to the 1/4" keyboard jack. When I turn it on, the screen looks good and I can see it going through its paces. It complains that there is no keyboard. I have no idea how much one would cost, but I expect it's >$50. I do not know how to tell if has been "upgraded" to a Mac/XL or if it is original. What's a good price for most of a Lisa? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 6 13:40:24 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706135937.00aabd20@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706111729.02ba8c00@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706113537.026d70d0@209.185.79.193> >I for one don't have a problem with that but it would be easy (prehaps too >easy) for the system to be abused or be modified to be invasive to law >abiding citizens. Exactly. LEOs are people too, and a percentage of them are bad people. Some are good people doing things badly. Consider the Santa Cruz police department illegally scanning all cellular phone traffic in a area where they believed protest organizers _might_ be using cell phones to co-ordinate. Never mind that you need a court order to listen in on someone's phone call. Ref: San Jose Mercury news. If you believe an honest citizen (or police officer) is someone who hasn't yet had a big enough temptation to become a criminal, then opening up a free candy store (as things like Carnivore are) in front of them is just plain bad policy. --Chuck From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 07:18:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107060251.TAA07472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <477.587T2600T7986613optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >Since we're talking Amiga upgrades, a knowledgeable Amiga guru I spoke to >told me that the GVP A530 I have attached to my A500 only takes those >funky 64-pin SIMMs. Are these the same SIMMs the Mac IIfx required? To the best of my knowledge, they are not the same ones. If you're a handy man, you could build an adapter for 72-pin ones, though a handy friend of mine has managed to obliterate several 72-pinners that way. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 07:24:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1942.587T850T8044579optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>The majority of my memory is comprised of 30-pin SIMMs on a Fastlane Z3 SCSI >>card. It's a really nice SCSI card (I particularly like the fact that it's >>got a full CEN50 socket on the blanking plate), but even though it's a Z3 >>card, the RAM only runs at 80% of the mobo speed. > For a while, I thought about getting one of the DKB 3128 ZIII >memory boards, but never got around to it. I did try to use the >Rapidfire for RAM once, but it slowed things down so much I didn't >leave it like that. The thing I always hated about expanding the >ZIPs in an A3000 wasn't getting the chips but inserting them into the >sockets. The way the 3000's ZIP banks were staggered made for a >difficult time aligning the pins. We thought about getting such a board until some weeks ago when we were lended a Phase 5 Cyberstorm MK II 060 accelerator with 72-pin sockets. Still, it's quite apparent that this A3000 is kept together mostly by rust and hot glue. On good days, it works from a cold boot, otherwise it requires a few resets before everything's settled. >>And it can't be expanded either? Hm, sounds a lot like the PII. > The base Spectrum came with just 1meg while the higher end >one came with 2. I believe it was simple enough to add the 2nd meg >to the base model though. At the time, I had a 14" NEC monitor >attached to it and I liked keeping the virtual screen set for >auto-scrolling with the screen size set to 1280 x 960 with the actual >viewable at a single time as 640 x 480. We thought about buying such a card, too, until we were lended a Picasso IV. You can't go any farther on the Zorro bus (ATM). >BTW, is WB still limited to 256 colors? God forbid! That could be a good reason to install P96/CGFX instead of EGS. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Anv?nd g?rna mitt staket, fast du beh?ver nog fr?scha upp det lite. Lupin III, Lupin den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 14:06:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! In-Reply-To: <200107061626.f66GQtd24809@bg-tc-ppp890.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010706190623.79755.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > I wrote: > > I even have some Pro hardware sitting in a corner - lots of it hit the > > thrift stores about 6 years ago - you could get a complete system for $10. > > I even had someone come to my house to give one away! It has VENIX on it > > and works, but he forgot the root password and I never had the time to > > go crack it > > The Venix distribution was up on the DECUS site so you can get it > free... I'd have killed for the source code. Right. I have distro floppies, minus the starting disk. The donor had no idea where it was, and at the time, VENIX was still being sold (not being *bought* mind you, just available should anyone _really_ want it ;-) If I could build a bootable VENIX disk that would dump me to a prompt, I wouldn't have to worry about what the old password was. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 14:22:34 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512BE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > When I turn it on, the screen looks good and I can see it going through its > paces. It complains that there is no keyboard. I have no idea how much one > would cost, but I expect it's >$50. > > I do not know how to tell if has been "upgraded" to a Mac/XL or if it is > original. > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? Too much. I've got a box of parts, from a Widget HD to RAM cards and maybe even a CPU card; two printer cards, etc. Just can't find the "handyman's special" I've been looking for... Regards, -dq From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 6 14:36:08 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 12:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you [R.D. Davis] wrote: > > I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are > >being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their [...] > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never > heard it. They're in the Tampa Bay area; this was reported by Matt Drudge, the investigative news reporter who has a radio talk show. [...] > the news about the UK police setting up a video recognition system that's > supposed to be tied in the the cameras in the Underground stations. It's > supposed to look for known wanted criminals and alert the police if any of > them are spotted in the stations. Does anyone know if that system has > gone into opeation or how effective it is? Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many problems for innocent people. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 6 14:49:37 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706111729.02ba8c00@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html [...] > I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates > at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family. > Gives me the shivers..... Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose. Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer. > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 14:41:58 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512BE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010706194158.76170.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > Too much. Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much if it's missing bits? Are keyboards findable? 3.5" 400K disk images with Lisa software? I suspect that a Mac 128K/512K mouse would work (nine-pin, raw quadrature), but keyboards are particular beasts. Anyone ever rig up a PIC scan-code converter? I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with software, docs and a printer go for $25, but is a base unit with a working monitor and CPU worth $50? $100? More? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 15:30:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <200107061620.MAA15894@world.std.com> Message-ID: <584.587T2400T12905817optimus@canit.se> Megan skrev: >You need to look around more... cameras are getting to be everywhere... Here, the national museum still hasn't been granted the right to use cameras in the exhibition halls, despite that several oeuvres were stolen last year in an elaborate coup. The Swedish laws about computer registers and cameras are very severe, to the extent of threatening the existence of BBSes and web cameras. There are traffic cameras, but they're preceded by signs warning drivers of them. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 15:17:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706081234.01e69ef0@pc> Message-ID: <2694.587T400T12774065optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 12:04 AM 7/6/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>I recall reading a document about how someone transferred his HD to a HDF >>file, and I actually believe that he used Transdisk. >According to the HDF file format docs, an HDF differs from an >ADF (floppy) file in that it has "a bootblock, a rootblock, a >[block] bitmap and perhaps dircache blocks." Well, all right, but then wouldn't a grab of the HD result in those attributes being saved, or do UAE hardfiles lack a real rigid disk block? >>OTOH you could try >>connecting the drives directly to the PC and do a "dd" or similar. >I saw a tool to do that, but it warned that sometimes the >drive becomes unreadable. It doesn't sound like a read-only >tool. I don't understand why they'd write to the disk if I didn't >ask it to. Probably the programmer doesn't either, but wants to be on the safe side. =) >>Another idea would be to start UAE, install AmiTCP, or at least amiganetfs, >>and transfer the disk contents that way. >I think I'd lose information. I don't trust the mapping of filename >characters, for example. I doubt Amiga file comments would be >preserved via NFS, too. I'm not recommending that you use NFS, or that you save the files into a Windows folder, but that you set up a hardfile in UAE tpo copy the contents into. Since you then would have a hardfile with a real Amiga filesystem (well, as real as a hardfile might be), and would be using amiganetfs (which is not the same as NFS), a filesystem which works on a very low level, the copy would be just the same as if you had done the copy between two drives on the same bus. I've done backups between Amigas using amiganetfs, and all attributes are saved. I just did an ls of the backup, and it contained file comments and all that. >As I said, I've already got an NFS link to my PC. I can easily >"copy dh10:#? NTp: all" and send the files as files to my PC, but >I don't want to spend hours figuring out which files were lost. That's why you should do the copy straight between the Amiga and the emulated environment, without passing through any alien file systems or network protocols. >Having an HDF file on my PC would be delightful. I installed >a Windows program called ADF View. It's a Windows Explorer extension >for ADF and HDF files, meaning now those two file extensions have >their own icon linked to this program, and when you click on >an HDF file, it opens a new Explorer window and lets you >browse the HDF file as if it were part of the Windows file system. >Very handy! About as handy as you get with an emulator... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL! TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER! From rachael_ at gmx.net Fri Jul 6 16:07:55 2001 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? Message-ID: <529.587T2771T13274087rachael_@gmx.net> Hi >Am I missing something obvious, like that the ADF-based tools >will work with hard disks, too? If you downloadet dev-handler.lha from Aminet, it would give you a new device called DEV: , then you could simply do a copy dev:hd0 ntp:foo.hdf . Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 15:15:53 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > > > Too much. > > Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much > if it's missing bits? The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as part of the Mac's heritage. > Are keyboards findable? 3.5" 400K disk images with Lisa software? I > suspect that a Mac 128K/512K mouse would work (nine-pin, raw quadrature), > but keyboards are particular beasts. Anyone ever rig up a PIC scan-code > converter? I've seen just keyboards for sale on E-Bay... > I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with software, > docs and a printer go for $25, but is a base unit with a working monitor > and CPU worth $50? $100? More? Yeah, I'd give you 50 bucks for it... Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't those times... Regards, -doug q From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 15:27:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001b01c1065a$0ca8d8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy in Redmond. Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile in the oval office. Not even Schickelgruber, however manipulable he may have been, was that stupid. Now the Texan Potentate and his sidekick want us all to accept that drilling NWAR for more oil, the first of which we'll see in about a decade and a half, will solve this week's energy crisis. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:49 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > > Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html > [...] > > I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates > > at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family. > > Gives me the shivers..... > > Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when > Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose. > Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of > the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer. > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone > know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 15:30:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <002101c1065a$7f4f20c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> So put the thing up on eBay. That will get you the top price you could expect. You'll be surprised how little that will be. Nowadays, every time I go to the thrift stores, I see several old MAC's and an occasional Lisa, for 10% of what a comparable PC goes for, and that's not very much. Of course if you look inside the typical MAC/Lisa thingie, there's a HDD that's not terribly interesting except, perhaps, historically. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: RE: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > > > > > Too much. > > > > Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much > > if it's missing bits? > > The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as > part of the Mac's heritage. > > > Are keyboards findable? 3.5" 400K disk images with Lisa software? I > > suspect that a Mac 128K/512K mouse would work (nine-pin, raw quadrature), > > but keyboards are particular beasts. Anyone ever rig up a PIC scan-code > > converter? > > I've seen just keyboards for sale on E-Bay... > > > I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with > software, > > docs and a printer go for $25, but is a base unit with a working monitor > > and CPU worth $50? $100? More? > > Yeah, I'd give you 50 bucks for it... > > Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't > those times... > > Regards, > -doug q > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 15:32:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <002501c1065a$bf89ffc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Actually, a search on eBay, of the recently sold items, should give you a round number. That will be a starting point from which you can go downward. Doing that will save you from soiling your hands with an eBay transaction. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: RE: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > > > > > Too much. > > > > Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much > > if it's missing bits? > > The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as > part of the Mac's heritage. > > > Are keyboards findable? 3.5" 400K disk images with Lisa software? I > > suspect that a Mac 128K/512K mouse would work (nine-pin, raw quadrature), > > but keyboards are particular beasts. Anyone ever rig up a PIC scan-code > > converter? > > I've seen just keyboards for sale on E-Bay... > > > I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with > software, > > docs and a printer go for $25, but is a base unit with a working monitor > > and CPU worth $50? $100? More? > > Yeah, I'd give you 50 bucks for it... > > Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't > those times... > > Regards, > -doug q > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 6 15:53:46 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: FT: Alpha Architecture Docs Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706134729.0246eeb0@209.185.79.193> The Alpha was started by DEC in 1988 as a replacement for the VAX, it extends the address space to 64 bits and switches from a CISC architecture to a RISC architecture. I've got a copy the Alpha Architecture Reference Manual (AARM) and the Alpha Architecture Handbook (AAH) which combined give you everything you need to know about the Alpha. They're extras. I'd like to offer them in trade to anyone who has EITHER: KA640 Technical Manual KA680 Technical Manual Also published by Digital. --Chuck From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Fri Jul 6 15:48:12 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B46240C.9197CFE0@pacbell.net> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > [ ... ] > > Matt Drudge, the investigative news reporter who has a radio talk show. > You mean, Matt Drudge the gossip columnist and radio talk show host who likes to pretend that he's a journalist ... From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 16:03:26 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor ) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy in Redmond. > Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile in the oval office. Not > even Schickelgruber, however manipulable he may have been, was that stupid. Now > the Texan Potentate and his sidekick want us all to accept that drilling NWAR > for more oil, the first of which we'll see in about a decade and a half, will > solve this week's energy crisis. Schickelgruber in the White House.... listening to Gas Music from Jupiter, no doubt. Then it's TRUE, they're in EVERYBODYS eggs! From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 14:40:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Even on some parts, HP Partsdirect isn't bad as their price includes >standard shipping, within the US. > >MCM electronics carries all sorts of rubber rejuvenators but the pickup >roller on the II/III series is a foamy kind of rubber and sometimes react >strangely to the rubber treatments. OTOH if 5 minutes with a swab fixes the problem, then its not a bad first attempt. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 15:15:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107061351.GAA10816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Jeff Hellige at "Jul 6, 1 05:38:30 am" Message-ID: >> I'm sure Iggy or Gareth will correct me if I'm wrong, but I >> believe the A530 uses the proprietary GVP SIMMs that were only used >> in GVP items. Thankfully my GVP HD+ on my A500 uses regular 30pin >> SIMMs. > >I'm just wondering if the pinout is the same, since I do know they're >64 pin. I can get my hands on IIfx memory "fairly cheaply" (this is >a relative term). I have a couple flavours, some IIfx and some AST 64 pin ram. Remind me next time you stop by. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 15:59:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards In-Reply-To: <000701c1062a$f99e78b0$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: >http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg >http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Those have got to be the two most common A2 cards that exist; Floppy drive and Serial. Anybody remember what a Apple Dumpling card is? I am thinking it copies ram to a floppy file and back to defeat copy protection. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 16:09:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010706210924.30117.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> > > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > I wrote: > > > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > > > > > Too much. > > > > Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much > > if it's missing bits? > > The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as > part of the Mac's heritage. That's the only reason I'd have any interest in it. I remember playing with a Lisa right about the time the 128K Mac showed up. My oldest Mac is a 512Ke that my mother bought new, full-price as a 512K and paid to upgrade (new ROMs, double-sided drive). I'm also a big Motorola 68K fan. One of my favorite jobs ever was hacking COMBOARDs in assembly and C (8Mhz 68000 w/32K SRAM up to 2Mb DRAM). > > I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with > > software, docs and a printer go for $25, I should have said "again" here (passed one by at a Hamfest years ago). > > a base unit with a working monitor... > Yeah, I'd give you 50 bucks for it... That was my opinion of its value, but I wanted to hear from others. > Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't > those times... No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box only, $5. I want to turn an SE or Plus into a localtalk gateway with that software from Apple's ftp site that has been mentioned here once or twice. I'll go back to the sale on Sunday and see what hasn't moved and offer the guy about 20% of his asking prices on some stuff and see how bad he wants to sell it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 6 16:22:06 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 06, 2001 03:49:37 PM Message-ID: <200107062122.f66LM6h30809@narnia.int.dittman.net> Can we get the political debates out of here? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 6 17:05:37 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706101417.00ab2960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 10:05 AM 7/6/01 +0930, you wrote: > > > > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all > >citizens vote. > > > >Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually > >all of the eligible voters. > >It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US > >elections actually bother to vote. > > > FWIW in the last election, some precients here in Florida had more > than a 97% turnout. My person opinion, if someone is too lazy to register > and/or vote I don't want them voting anyway. In the last election, the > democrats realized that they were in trouble here in Florida and they > issued a last minute plea for more "mininories" to get out and vote at the > last minute. That's what lead to a lot of the voter confusion and > un-counted votes. Many of those last minute voters had never registered > and most of them didn't even know that they had to go to a voting place IN > THEIR OWN DISTRICT. They simply went to the first voting palce that they > found and DEMANDED to vote. Of course, they were turned away and told that > they had to vote in their own district but since they hadn't bothered to > even find out were that was they ran out of time before they could vote. > > Joe IMHO, that is a pretty good analysis of at least part of the problem, Joe. It is my belief that the Congress, what with `motor voter' et al, has made it far too easy to vote. The net result being a vast number of voters who have not the slightest notion of who or what they are voting for or why as they have not spent thirty seconds thinking about it before appearing at the polls. Likely the very old rule that only property owners had the right to vote deserved to be overturned, but it certainly put a more thoughtful group of voters at the polls. - don From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 17:01:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <20010706145839.50511.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >so perhaps it worked for a while, suffered some user abuse from clearing >paper jams and sat for several years until recently hauled away. Thats one thing that gets me with university surplus, I buy a batch of 5 year old computers, and find they haven't been used since 1999, ie 2 years of sitting before disposal. From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 6 17:21:11 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 12:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: > > >Sellam Ismail wisely wrote: > > > Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very > > > disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have > > > ended up with today :( > > > >Well said! All that most of the present politicians in the > >U.S. appear to be concerned with today are taxation, oppression, > >lining their pockets with cash, and being pawns of business interests. > >Why don't they just rename the USA to something like the United Police > >State of America and have it over with? > > > >Back something slightly more on-topic: how many here, when giving > >further tought to the pros and cons of computers get the feeling that > >we'd all be better off if computers and some related technology didn't > >exist? > > I know that I'd have a lot more time! Ebay, the internet, mailing > lists and the like EAT time! > > > > I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are > >being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their > >facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt > >to "catch criminals." > > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never > heard it. There was a front page article in our newspaper on them, Joe. It is in Tampa and the purpose is precisely what you speak of below in the London Tube stations. - don > > In other words, they're comparing people's > >faces to pictures of criminals in a database. Those seen talking with > >suspected criminals, or those with similar faces, become suspects as > >well. Very Orwellian. Why people aren't shooting at the cameras and > >protesting against their use, I don't know or understand. I guess > >that "good little citizens of the state" (foolish, senseless, people) > >ought not do such things. > > You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones that > we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the > like. We have very few cameras in public areas. FWIW I went to London a > couple of years ago and I was amazed at how many cameras they had. Nearly > every street corner has one, the Underground (sub-way) stations are full of > them and every store had a battery of them. Also I saw something in > the news about the UK police setting up a video recognition system that's > supposed to be tied in the the cameras in the Underground stations. It's > supposed to look for known wanted criminals and alert the police if any of > them are spotted in the stations. Does anyone know if that system has > gone into opeation or how effective it is? > > Joe > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 6 13:29:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <20010706011538.80184.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 5, 1 06:15:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3741 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/c53b7b96/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 6 17:23:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010706090546.009ba210@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jul 6, 1 09:05:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/3183c83f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 6 17:30:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 6, 1 09:08:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2111 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/15e70f45/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 18:22:14 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010706232214.55583.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > ...LaserJet-III... paper jam... how to restore... feed capability > > > > > > Sure, replace the pickup roller. One of the common faults on the SX > > > engine. > > > > Yep. Just did upper and lower feed rollers and transfer pads on my LJIIID. > > Ran about $30 in parts and a lot of labor/time (I haven't been inside a > > My experience is that he SX engine (I've never done a -D version, though) > is very modular. Many units (PSUs, scanner, motor, fuser, etc) come out > by just undoing a few screws. It's possible to completely clear off the > base pan in about 15 minutes maximum :-). That's about what I did. Unless I totally missed a techie tip, I figured I had to clear the top pan and remove it. Once I did that, the lower transfer pad was _right_ _there_ in plain sight. I was just hoping there was a better way for the next time. It took me more than 15 minutes the first time, though. :-) > > > Remove the E-clips... > > > > Commonly called "circlips" on this end of the pond. > > In the UK the term 'circlip' covers 3 types of fastener Ah. I know of the internal and external clips you are describing; I just don't think I was exposed to different terms for the three kinds. I've always seen the "E-circlips" referred to simply as "circlips". > The SX engine is a real workhorse. It's a bit slow, and it's not the > highest resolution printer in the world, but it works. And it's easily > good enough for everything I need to print (text, the odd schematic > diagram or graph). I have no need for personal stuff over 300dpi, so I'm pretty happy with it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 6 18:22:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <1942.587T850T8044579optimus@canit.se> References: <1942.587T850T8044579optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >We thought about getting such a board until some weeks ago when we were lended >a Phase 5 Cyberstorm MK II 060 accelerator with 72-pin sockets. Still, it's >quite apparent that this A3000 is kept together mostly by rust and hot glue. >On good days, it works from a cold boot, otherwise it requires a few resets >before everything's settled. Did you have to do the INT2 mod on the A3000's mainboard for the MK II? How's heat dissipation with the '060 cpu? When I was running my A3000 with the A3640, the '040 cpu tended to run quite hot and there wasn't enough room for a proper heatsink. > >BTW, is WB still limited to 256 colors? >God forbid! That could be a good reason to install P96/CGFX instead of EGS. If I remember correctly, under EGS on the Spectrum (on both my A3000 and A4000) programs that opened on the WB were limited to a maximum of 256 colors while if they opened on their own screen they could utilize the full maximum number of colors for that resolution. It actually didn't look as bad as it sounds. I ran Shapeshifter on it's own screen in at least 256 colors with a full Mac internet suite (Netscape, Eudora, MacTCP, etc.). It played a mean game of Maelstrom. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From louiss at gate.net Fri Jul 6 18:54:44 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: <200107031956.f63JuxY106352@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). Thanks, Louis From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 6 19:11:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jul 6, 1 07:54:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2451 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/2dcaeb36/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 19:31:07 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001b01c1065a$0ca8d8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:27 PM 7/6/01 -0600, you wrote: >I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy in Redmond. >Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile in the oval >office. Not >even Schickelgruber, however manipulable he may have been, was that >stupid. Now >the Texan Potentate and his sidekick want us all to accept that drilling NWAR >for more oil, the first of which we'll see in about a decade and a half, will >solve this week's energy crisis. Is that the same energy crisis that the oil industry keeps saying is being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery capacity! Joe >Dick > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "R. D. Davis" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:49 PM >Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html > > [...] > > > I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license > plates > > > at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit > family. > > > Gives me the shivers..... > > > > Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when > > Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose. > > Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of > > the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer. > > > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > > > Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone > > know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery? > > > > -- > > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above > Nature & > > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such > > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 19:36:37 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <200107062122.f66LM6h30809@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706203530.00a19a60@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:22 PM 7/6/01 -0500, Eric wrote: >Can we get the political debates out of here? Probably not. You might as well give up and just set your filters to delete everything that has OT in the title. Joe >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net From manney at hmcltd.net Fri Jul 6 22:45:36 2001 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT: Hyperspace (Was: Space War?) References: <20010706130615.16339@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <011701c10697$49ebc0e0$687ffea9@pii500> > > SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by > > E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships > > duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and > > jumping through hyperspace. Must be rather loosely based. The good Doctor never used hyperspace in the Lensman series (IIRC, in none of his books, unless you count a foray into the fourth dimension in "Skylark ov Valeron". Wonderful author. I used to play a version of Space War on the HP-41. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 19:07:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Ultrix Netscape? Message-ID: <522.588T1550T674719optimus@canit.se> There has been quite a lot of talk on the NetBSD/pmax list about an elusive version of Netscape for Ultrix. Has anyone ever seen such a beast? All indications I get from a Google search is that there never was an Ultrix port, but people on the list claim otherwise. Any Ultrix gurus around here who know? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music." David McMinn From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 19:55:20 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706101417.00ab2960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706204036.00aa60d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:05 PM 7/6/01 -0700, Don wrote: >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > > > At 10:05 AM 7/6/01 +0930, you wrote: > > > > > > > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all > > >citizens vote. > > > > > >Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually > > >all of the eligible voters. > > >It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US > > >elections actually bother to vote. > > > > > > FWIW in the last election, some precients here in Florida had more > > than a 97% turnout. My person opinion, if someone is too lazy to register > > and/or vote I don't want them voting anyway. In the last election, the > > democrats realized that they were in trouble here in Florida and they > > issued a last minute plea for more "mininories" to get out and vote at the > > last minute. That's what lead to a lot of the voter confusion and > > un-counted votes. Many of those last minute voters had never registered > > and most of them didn't even know that they had to go to a voting place IN > > THEIR OWN DISTRICT. They simply went to the first voting palce that they > > found and DEMANDED to vote. Of course, they were turned away and told that > > they had to vote in their own district but since they hadn't bothered to > > even find out were that was they ran out of time before they could vote. > > > > Joe > >IMHO, that is a pretty good analysis of at least part of the problem, >Joe. It is my belief that the Congress, what with `motor voter' et al, >has made it far too easy to vote. The net result being a vast number of >voters who have not the slightest notion of who or what they are voting >for or why as they have not spent thirty seconds thinking about it >before appearing at the polls. > >Likely the very old rule that only property owners had the right to vote >deserved to be overturned, but it certainly put a more thoughtful group >of voters at the polls. > - don Mind you that that was only part of the voting problem here in Florida. The Democrats considered Florida a MUST-WIN state and thought that they'd have an easy win here. However when the polls started showing a very close race, they appealed to every pro-democratic group that they could find by using scare tactics like telling senior citizens that GWB was going to repeal medicare outright. Of course most people realized that was pure hogwash but it worked on a lot of people and they rushed out to vote. (That's one reason that we had such a large turnout.) However many of the same idiots that believe such nonsense were the same ones that had never bothered to vote before and many of them didn't even know that you couldn't vote for more than one person per office. The result was that we got thousands of ballets that weren't punched at all or were punched multiple times for the same race! Personally I'd like to see the competency tests brought back and I'd like to see it written so that potential voters would have to at least have some knowledge of the issues and candidates. But if we did that there'd be a whole lot less Democrats being elected! Stop and think about it, who pushed through the motor-voter act? Who pushed through the law to change the minimum age for voting? In both cases it was the Democrats because they would have the most to gain from those changes. Joe From louiss at gate.net Fri Jul 6 20:04:34 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107070104.VAA14289@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> On Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:11:11 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: #> #> I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's #> invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. #> #> The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, #> are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). #> #> A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic #> ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 #> chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. #> #> So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips # #As far as I can see, yes the 2116s are 3-rail and have the same pinouts #as 4116s. A lot of the time, various manufacturers made very similar RAM #chips with slightly different numbers (another example is the 2016 2K*8 #SRAM which is very similar to the 6116). Sometimes there were slight #timing differences between various manufacturer's chips, often it doesn't #matter. # #I would be very suprised if the Sorceror doesn't work with 4116 DRAMs in it. # #> equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not #> equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of #> the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? # #The 2114 SRAM is single-supply rail (+5V only). Again, it was made by #several companies (but I think most of the time it was called the 2114). #It also happens to be the chip I've had the most failures from :-) # #> #> A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and #> selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). # #Most of the time, RAMs are pretty generic. Match up the capacity, type #(SRAM or DRAM) and number of pins, and you're close to finding a match :-) # #In general, SRAMs were single-rail, +5V only. DRAMs were often 3-rail up #to and including the 16K bit parts. There were single-rail 16Kbit DRAMs, #but they are not that common, and they came out later than the 3 rail parts. # #Most DRAMs have a multiplexed address bus (that's how you fit a 16K RAM, #needing at least 14 address lines, 1 data line, 1 write enable line ,and #3 power lines into a 16 pin package). You send the address in 2 parts and #bring RAS/ and CAS/ low as appropriate. Some older 4K DRAMs, in 22 pin #packages, have a normal address bus with 12 separate pins. Those 22 pin #DRAMs are odd in othter ways, like needing a strobe pulse at 12V levels. # #I am not sure exactly what you want to know, though. If you can say what #information you need, I'll try and dig out the databooks. # #-tony This answers most of my questions, thanks. One further question. What is the difference between "static" ram and "dynamic" ram, since both are "volatile" ram? Or, putting it another way, what is "static" about "static" ram, since it changes as well? Louis From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jul 6 20:17:19 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Calculator Find Message-ID: <01be01c10682$926b3860$4b731fd1@default> While at the thrift on Thursday I found a Singer Friden EC 1117A electronic calculator for $1.99 plus tax. Also got non working Hitron laptop for $4.99. Picked up about 20 books with alot of them being HP calculator manuals. Almost forgot a Toshiba T5100 cost all of $2. Other than the hand full of mousepads that was it for the week. Hope to hit two big auctions next week looking for a few goodies. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 20:05:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <002f01c10681$8c8ec840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't think the 2116's (now, this is from memory cells undisturbed in probably 20 years ... so be careful ... ) are much different from 2117's, which I've routinely interchanged and mixed with 4116's. The 2114's are single-supply 1Kx4-bit SRAMs, while the 2116's are dynamic and 3-rail. The single supply Intel 16-kbit DRAMs are the 2118's. The TI number for the 2114's was TMS-4045 and other vendors had part numbers similar to the 2114, e.g. 9114, 7114, etc. National had a 5290 instead of the 4116 designation, but the parts were similar. There are some "special" parts that need to be noted, particularly the 4115, from Mostek. These were devices the gate capacitance of which wasn't enough to hold their charge reliably for the entire 2 ms refresh interval, so they had the special designation of 4115 to indicate they required more frequent refresh, which often wasn't an issue, since they were used in applications where they were cycled very frequently because of video refresh or other system activities that cycled the row addresses faster than the 2 ms per 128-byte cycle requirement of 4116's. Intel's memory numbering was a mite confusing, as they had an old SRAM line with numbers like 2115 and 2125, which were 1kx1 fast (15-25 ns) srams while the 2114's were slow 1kx4's. They had lots of numbers, and the numeric series designation was often not at all indicative of the nature of the part. I've still got quite a few 4116's (200 ns Tacc, mostly) that I'll donate for the cost of shipping, to folks with REAL applications for them. I'm not interested in shipping them in quantity to folks building pop-art with 'em, however, as these work, and they don't make 'em anymore. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Schulman" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 5:54 PM Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips > I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's > invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. > > The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, > are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). > > A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic > ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 > chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. > > So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips > equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not > equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of > the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? > > A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and > selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). > > Thanks, Louis > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 20:24:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: <200107070104.VAA14289@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <005501c10683$8608f160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Static RAM requires simply that you apply address, control, and, if necessary, data, and, so long as power is applied, the content remains stabile. Dynamic RAM's rely on stored charge that gradually leaks off, and, therefore, must be refreshed. On DRAMs like 4116's, this occurs when the nRAS strobe is raised at the end of a row access. This writes the charge back to all the cells in that row. Consequently, the length of the RAS precharge cycle is just as long, or nearly so, as a read access cycle, as the data is written back to all the cells in the row from the row buffers. The advantage of the DRAM is that it requires much less silicon per bit, for a given geometry, so costs less (less silicon at $XX/lb) per bit. The disadvantage is that, in the case of all the 16-pin multiplexed address DRAMs, more logic and somewhat critical signal timing was required. Later DRAMs followed the same general approach, though it's gotten quite a bit more setup intensive in recent years. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Schulman" To: ; "Tony Duell" Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 7:04 PM Subject: Re: 2116 and other old memory chips > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:11:11 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: > > #> > #> I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's > #> invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. > #> > #> The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on > configuration, > #> are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). > #> > #> A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic > #> ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 > #> chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. > #> > #> So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips > # > #As far as I can see, yes the 2116s are 3-rail and have the same > pinouts > #as 4116s. A lot of the time, various manufacturers made very similar > RAM > #chips with slightly different numbers (another example is the 2016 > 2K*8 > #SRAM which is very similar to the 6116). Sometimes there were slight > #timing differences between various manufacturer's chips, often it > doesn't > #matter. > # > #I would be very suprised if the Sorceror doesn't work with 4116 DRAMs > in it. > # > #> equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are > not > #> equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section > of > #> the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? > # > #The 2114 SRAM is single-supply rail (+5V only). Again, it was made by > #several companies (but I think most of the time it was called the > 2114). > #It also happens to be the chip I've had the most failures from :-) > # > #> > #> A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use > and > #> selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). > # > #Most of the time, RAMs are pretty generic. Match up the capacity, type > > #(SRAM or DRAM) and number of pins, and you're close to finding a match > :-) > # > #In general, SRAMs were single-rail, +5V only. DRAMs were often 3-rail > up > #to and including the 16K bit parts. There were single-rail 16Kbit > DRAMs, > #but they are not that common, and they came out later than the 3 rail > parts. > # > #Most DRAMs have a multiplexed address bus (that's how you fit a 16K > RAM, > #needing at least 14 address lines, 1 data line, 1 write enable line > ,and > #3 power lines into a 16 pin package). You send the address in 2 parts > and > #bring RAS/ and CAS/ low as appropriate. Some older 4K DRAMs, in 22 pin > > #packages, have a normal address bus with 12 separate pins. Those 22 > pin > #DRAMs are odd in othter ways, like needing a strobe pulse at 12V > levels. > # > #I am not sure exactly what you want to know, though. If you can say > what > #information you need, I'll try and dig out the databooks. > # > #-tony > This answers most of my questions, thanks. One further question. What > is the difference between "static" ram and "dynamic" ram, since both > are "volatile" ram? Or, putting it another way, what is "static" about > "static" ram, since it changes as well? > > Louis > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 20:38:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010707013822.99877.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > The 2114 SRAM is single-supply rail (+5V only). Again, it was made by > several companies (but I think most of the time it was called the 2114). > It also happens to be the chip I've had the most failures from :-) I, too, have had these fail numerous times. Much more so than other SRAMs or any DRAMs. The only ones that came close were from the same era: 4096 DRAMs - I have them on some LSI-11 boards and inside a Z-80-based Gorf. When I first got all the parts together to refurb a full-sized Gorf machine, the internal tests showed a memory fault on one of the DRAM boards, covered in 4096 chips. I use the LSI-11 CPU, a COMBOARD (for its memory mapping/DMA engine) and a Fluke tester to check the 4K DRAMs - plug the COMBOARD on the Qbus, put the test RAMs on the LSI-11 board, plug the Fluke emulator/tester in the 68000 socket on the COMBOARD, fire it all up, hit the DMA enable bit on the COMBOARD, then through the Fluke, test a range of 68K memory that corresponds to the appropriate range of Qbus memory addresses and voila - a 4096 tester with about $25K-new-cost worth of test gear. (The Qbus COMBOARD memory map is divided into 4 regions, RAM, shared-memory, I/O and ROM. There are 22 bits of 68K space available to map each and every Qbus location into some valid local address. Who needs mapping registers! No FUBAR on a Qbus!) The first COMBOARD used 2114 SRAMs because they were more reliable than Intel's DRAMs of the day (plus the XC68000 would occasionally enter a microcode fault and reset, causing Z-80-style bus-driven refresh mechanisms to pause too long, letting all the bits leak out). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 6 21:31:57 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Interphase 4220 Cougar Message-ID: <200107070231.f672Vvb32001@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have an Interphase 4220 Cougar board. This board has what appears to have two wide SCSI controllers, one of which is on a daughterboard. Does anyone know what kind of bus interface is on this board? There are two connectors, one of which is 3x32 male and the other is the same connector but only the middle 32 pins exist. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 21:33:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2493.588T900T2134785optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>We thought about getting such a board until some weeks ago when we were >>lended a Phase 5 Cyberstorm MK II 060 accelerator with 72-pin sockets. >>Still, it's quite apparent that this A3000 is kept together mostly by rust >>and hot glue. On good days, it works from a cold boot, otherwise it requires >>a few resets before everything's settled. > Did you have to do the INT2 mod on the A3000's mainboard for >the MK II? How's heat dissipation with the '060 cpu? When I was >running my A3000 with the A3640, the '040 cpu tended to run quite hot >and there wasn't enough room for a proper heatsink. We didn't have to modify the motherboard, just move some jumpers for clocks and such, though we did have to saw a hole in the disk bay to accomodate the fan, since the card had been overclocked. Took a whole day, and goes to prove how cramped the A3000 is. The '060 does a much better job at handling heat than the '040. In its original 50 MHz state, it only had a small heatsink, whereas a small fan was added when it was overclocked to 60 or 66 MHz. What INT2 mod, BTW? >> >BTW, is WB still limited to 256 colors? >>God forbid! That could be a good reason to install P96/CGFX instead of EGS. > If I remember correctly, under EGS on the Spectrum (on both >my A3000 and A4000) programs that opened on the WB were limited to a >maximum of 256 colors while if they opened on their own screen they >could utilize the full maximum number of colors for that resolution. >It actually didn't look as bad as it sounds. I ran Shapeshifter on >it's own screen in at least 256 colors with a full Mac internet suite >(Netscape, Eudora, MacTCP, etc.). It played a mean game of Maelstrom. Perhaps am I just spoiled by Amiga performance, but all my Mac activites under emulation have been unbearably slow. Mind you, nowadays I think that my (68k) Macs are just as slow. It's quite amazing to think that my Centris actually runs at a higher clock speed than my A4000. My IIci just spent the last few hours running Ghostview, recoding a plain PS file into a PDF. Hm, the PS was just 4072721 bytes, whereas the PDF turned out at 7697180 bytes. It's a classic PDF, BTW, since it's the manual for a DECstation. =) I also did an Amiga-related find today: a Commodore 1010 external disk drive at 15 crowns. Bulking big thing. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle meine Noten bringen mich nicht aus den N?ten, und ich schreibe noten ?berhaupt nur aus N?ten. --- Ludwig van Beethoven From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jul 6 22:27:22 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: holy grail found Message-ID: <49.d8b18f9.2877db9a@aol.com> well not really, but its a holy grail to me. I traded one of my tandy 102s to get an apple //c+ and finally got it today. Now I have every apple // model now. it's a pretty neat machine. I think it might replace the computer I use to play with and type in programs from 4 years worth of NIBBLE magazines I have. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto, ugliest RV ever and barbie jet motorhome at www.nothingtodo.org From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 6 22:42:27 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001b01c1065a$0ca8d8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy > in Redmond. Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile > in the oval office. Not What about those who tolerated the previous Bozo in Chief, Slick Willie? Also, let's not forget how they also tolerated little Miz "your healthcare is the governments business, not yours" Megalomania, a.k.a. Hillary, who's rumored to have walked Slick Willie around the nut^H^H^Hwhite house grounds on a leash while shouting "Heel little willie!" We really need a better presidential candidate. My vote goes to Uncle "I'll shoot them in the back with an elephant gun" Fester (remember him from the Adams Family TV show?) . Just think of the great political slogan he'd have: Fester, Fester, he's our man - if he can't do it, blasting caps can! Go FESTER!" Just think, anyone who eats mercury-filled thermometers for a snack, and can electrify light-bulbs by placing them in his mouth, can do much more for this nation than most other recent presidents... like solve the energy shortage! :-) :-) :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 6 22:54:13 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > IMHO, that is a pretty good analysis of at least part of the problem, > Joe. It is my belief that the Congress, what with `motor voter' et al, > has made it far too easy to vote. The net result being a vast number of > voters who have not the slightest notion of who or what they are voting [...] Well said! That's why so many cretins are getting into office; too many people voting without actually thinking about why they're voting for who they're voting for---instead, voting for certain candidates due to peer pressure, or because of such short-sighted reasons as a candidate's position on one single political issue, not looking at all of the issues and attempting to make the most rational choice by taking everything into consideration. Let's face it, when we have vast quantities of people voting who have the same, or less, intellect then fingernail-clippings, what else can we expect to have elected into political offices? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 22:45:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) References: <20010707013822.99877.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c10697$34e473e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've still got almost all the RAM chips that have ever failed on me, and, aside from one thoroughly voltage-abused board of small SRAMs, I've got very few that are smaller than 64Kbits. There are a couple of 21L02's a couple of different 2114/2149 types, a dozen or so 4116-types, and perhaps a couple of 6116's. By contrast, I have a paper box about half full of SIMMs and DIMMs, not to mention VRAMs, etc, some of which may be separated from their healthy bretheren if I feel ambitious or desperate some day. The pattern they seem to follow is an order n^2 pattern, where the number of bits squared in a single device seems to be reflective of the risk of failure. That means that a SIMM with 64 MB, one of which I've got right here, with eight EDO DRAMs on it, is 8 times as likely to fail as one with one of the same device type, but the device itself seems to be about 16 times as likely to fail as one a fourth its size. As each shrink in the geometries is brought forth, the industry claims its failure rate per bit goes down, but I've seen nothing of the sort. It seems that the failure rate, for DRAMs anyway, goes up as the square of the number of bits per device. Also, a two-IC SIMM seems about a fourth as likely to fail as one with eight of the same size device on it. That fits, doesn't it? While I don't dispute Tony's experience, mine has been somewhat different. I've still got the first SRAM boards I ever bought for the S-100 bus, all with 4Kbit SRAMs (2147's), and those have never (yet) had a failure. Likewise, I still have the first S-100 board with 32 WIDE SRAMs (6116's) on it, and it's also never experienced a failure. Oddly enough, my S-100 DRAM boards using 4164's have had no failures either, though there are more of them. OTOH, my 2 Ampro Little Boards, have lost over a dozen 4164's over the 15+ years I've had 'em. If one uses only 1000 or so part per week, one doesn't get a complete picture of the real failure rates of memory devices, if you test 40 boards at a time, each with 288 DRAMs on it, and test and ship 100+ boards a week, then you get a picture. Believe me, it's different from what one gets in the basement personal computer and electronics lab. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 7:38 PM Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > The 2114 SRAM is single-supply rail (+5V only). Again, it was made by > > several companies (but I think most of the time it was called the 2114). > > It also happens to be the chip I've had the most failures from :-) > > I, too, have had these fail numerous times. Much more so than other SRAMs > or any DRAMs. The only ones that came close were from the same era: 4096 > DRAMs - I have them on some LSI-11 boards and inside a Z-80-based Gorf. > When I first got all the parts together to refurb a full-sized Gorf machine, > the internal tests showed a memory fault on one of the DRAM boards, covered > in 4096 chips. > > I use the LSI-11 CPU, a COMBOARD (for its memory mapping/DMA engine) and > a Fluke tester to check the 4K DRAMs - plug the COMBOARD on the Qbus, > put the test RAMs on the LSI-11 board, plug the Fluke emulator/tester > in the 68000 socket on the COMBOARD, fire it all up, hit the DMA enable > bit on the COMBOARD, then through the Fluke, test a range of 68K memory > that corresponds to the appropriate range of Qbus memory addresses and > voila - a 4096 tester with about $25K-new-cost worth of test gear. (The Qbus > COMBOARD memory map is divided into 4 regions, RAM, shared-memory, I/O and > ROM. There are 22 bits of 68K space available to map each and every Qbus > location into some valid local address. Who needs mapping registers! No > FUBAR on a Qbus!) > > The first COMBOARD used 2114 SRAMs because they were more reliable than > Intel's DRAMs of the day (plus the XC68000 would occasionally enter a > microcode fault and reset, causing Z-80-style bus-driven refresh mechanisms > to pause too long, letting all the bits leak out). > Since the MC68000 and its kin didn't have a Z-80-style bus-driven refresh mechanism, this must have been implemented in external hardware that was turned off when an exception was encountered, or it was done in software, which was apparently not used in the exception handler. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 22:53:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001901c10698$53f14140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That certainly holds out more promise or helping the energy problem than the two Texans do. Since the VP is a mite smarter than George-the-first's veep was, he serves as less of a threat to those who might consider doing something really radical ... BTW, who's the present Pres. pro-tem of the Senate? DC's power-assisted heart might not handle Dubya's passing, should the fates smile on us, doncha know. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:42 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy > > in Redmond. Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile > > in the oval office. Not > > What about those who tolerated the previous Bozo in Chief, Slick > Willie? Also, let's not forget how they also tolerated little Miz > "your healthcare is the governments business, not yours" Megalomania, > a.k.a. Hillary, who's rumored to have walked Slick Willie around the > nut^H^H^Hwhite house grounds on a leash while shouting "Heel little > willie!" > > We really need a better presidential candidate. My vote goes to Uncle > "I'll shoot them in the back with an elephant gun" Fester (remember > him from the Adams Family TV show?) . Just think of the great political > slogan he'd have: > > Fester, Fester, he's our man - if he can't do it, blasting > caps can! Go FESTER!" > > Just think, anyone who eats mercury-filled thermometers for a snack, > and can electrify light-bulbs by placing them in his mouth, can do > much more for this nation than most other recent presidents... like > solve the energy shortage! :-) :-) :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 6 22:57:03 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > optically. It had a car headlamp bulb and a row of > I can cofirm from practical experience that the Elliot optical _paper > tape_ reader uses a bulb that looks a lot like a car headlamp bulb. I > don't mean a sealed-beam unit, of course. A single-filament lamp about 1" > in diameter and 2" long, with a flange mounting and a single contact on > the end of the base. 48W IIRC. While I can't confirm that this card reader > used anything similar, I think it's possible. Yes, indeed. Two peoples separated by a common language. In the US, "headlamp bulb" MEANS "sealed beam". The US mandated sealed beams. At the time, it was as hard to get a non-sealed beam headlamp as it was to find an acetylene lamp (which would be as likely to be what was referred to when saying "headlamp".) Once found, a non-sealed beam bulb would be a fine choice for such a device. BTW, relatively recently non-sealed beam halogen units became legal, finally. > In the UK, the typical taillight bulb is 5W. It's often part of a > twin-filament bulb, 5W tail light, 21W brake light. > There's also a single-filament 21W bulb used for the turn signal. That's > the bulb that was commonly used in later optical paper tape readers in > the UK. In the US, in typical sloppiness of language, the automotive parts industry lumps together under the heading "taillight": brake light, turn signal, backup light, and RUNNING light (which is what y'all more accurately call "taillight".) Even the FRONT turn signal bulbs are grouped as "taillights". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Fri Jul 6 23:30:33 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 References: Message-ID: <3B469069.390B4861@pacbell.net> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > In the US, in typical sloppiness of language, the automotive parts > industry lumps together under the heading "taillight": brake light, turn > signal, backup light, and RUNNING light (which is what y'all more > accurately call "taillight".) > Well, I suppose it isn't too surprising since some of the functions are lumped together as well ... I have lived in the US for 15 years but I still can't get used to the way that the US auto industry insists on using the brake lights as the rear turn signals ... From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 6 23:13:52 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010706090546.009ba210@ubanproductions.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706211329.00a87ec0@mail.zipcon.net> have you cleaned the corona wire, and does this happen with a different toner cart? At 09:05 AM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, the smears seem to be independent of what I print. The image is >there, but covered in places by non-uniform "smears" of black. Yes, >they appear on the test page (there is only one) as well. Also, the >smears are fused to the paper... > >--tom > > >OK, can you describe these smears a bit more? Are the independant of what > >you're trying to print (text .vs. graphics, for example). Do they occur > >on the formatter test page (the one where it prints out the fonts, etc). > >Do they occur on the engine test page (if you can produce one) -- the one > >with vertical lines only on it? > > > >I'm wondering if the engine is actually alright, and the problem is > >actually due to memory errors on the formatter board (or the logic that > >transfers the bitmap from the memory to the laser). > > > >-tony > > > > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 6 23:51:08 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706211329.00a87ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: Having the smears adhered means he has a good fuser anyway. It can be a bad wiper on the toner (as I'm sure you're implying) or the transfer corona (not likely if theyre non-uniform) or even excess toner floating around inside, independant of the toner cart. Also try adjusting the print density as the toner may be allowing too much toner out and it's dropping sporatically on the paper. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Reed -> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 11:14 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) -> -> -> have you cleaned the corona wire, and does this happen with a different -> toner cart? -> -> At 09:05 AM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote: -> >Yes, the smears seem to be independent of what I print. The image is -> >there, but covered in places by non-uniform "smears" of black. Yes, -> >they appear on the test page (there is only one) as well. Also, the -> >smears are fused to the paper... -> > -> >--tom -> > -> > >OK, can you describe these smears a bit more? Are the -> independant of what -> > >you're trying to print (text .vs. graphics, for example). Do -> they occur -> > >on the formatter test page (the one where it prints out the -> fonts, etc). -> > >Do they occur on the engine test page (if you can produce -> one) -- the one -> > >with vertical lines only on it? -> > > -> > >I'm wondering if the engine is actually alright, and the problem is -> > >actually due to memory errors on the formatter board (or the -> logic that -> > >transfers the bitmap from the memory to the laser). -> > > -> > >-tony -> > > -> > > -> > > -> From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 7 00:06:25 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at's message of "Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:34:58 +0200" References: Message-ID: <200107070506.f6756Pr24819@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... Yes, it likely would be. What are you trying to discover? Austria is a ways away from where I am, but I have some of the manuals handy and some a little less handy (in storage). There are two or three other people on the list with these systems too. -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 6 23:41:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706101417.00ab2960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > FWIW in the last election, some precients here in Florida had > more than a 97% turnout. My person opinion, if someone is too lazy to > register and/or vote I don't want them voting anyway. In the last > election, the democrats realized that they were in trouble here in > Florida and they issued a last minute plea for more "mininories" to > get out and vote at the last minute. That's what lead to a lot of the > voter confusion and un-counted votes. Many of those last minute > voters had never registered and most of them didn't even know that > they had to go to a voting place IN THEIR OWN DISTRICT. They simply > went to the first voting palce that they found and DEMANDED to vote. > Of course, they were turned away and told that they had to vote in > their own district but since they hadn't bothered to even find out > were that was they ran out of time before they could vote. Bringing this sort of on topic (barely) I recently found some voting equipment in a local electronics surplus ship that made it's way all the way from Dade County, Florida :) One was a punch for punching selections on a ballot, and the other seemed to be some sort of electronic bar code type device, or perhaps just a simple light-gun and photo-diode implement. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 00:43:27 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <000d01c10697$34e473e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707054327.76990.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The first COMBOARD used 2114 SRAMs because they were more reliable than > > Intel's DRAMs of the day (plus the XC68000 would occasionally enter a > > microcode fault and reset, causing Z-80-style bus-driven refresh mechanisms > > to pause too long, letting all the bits leak out). > > > Since the MC68000 and its kin didn't have a Z-80-style bus-driven refresh > mechanism, this must have been implemented in external hardware that was > turned > off when an exception was encountered, or it was done in software, which was > apparently not used in the exception handler. This is slightly before my time, but I was told that the earliest 68000 designs that used DRAMS, used a derivative of the Z-80 scheme because the designers of the time were used to it. I didn't mean to imply that the 68K had some kind of magical in-built DRAM refresh support. The microcode faults I was told about for the XC68000 (not MC68000) would lock things up tight for dozens of clock cycles, then go right back at it, as it nothing ever happened. It was strictly internal to the CPU and caused by bugs in the first run. Your software never knew what hit it unless it was checking timings against an external clock. By the time I personally touched a 68000, these kinks were long worked out (except for knowing that one needs to put low-ohmage resistors (30-60 Ohms) in series with the refresh lines from a DRAM controller when attempting to refresh several dozen DRAMs (4164s in this case). I chuckled when I saw those same resistors in the front memory cartridge of an Amiga 1000. They at least got them in there by the time their production started. I added hundreds of 68 Ohm resistors to the first production run of COMBOARD-II rev 0s. Once one of those came back from the soldering house, I think it took 3 hours of bench time to apply all the ECOs. Good thing they were already expensive. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 6 23:44:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards In-Reply-To: <000701c1062a$f99e78b0$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Mike wrote: > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Um, a more common than butt-cracks disk controller and a too blurry to tell what it is board but looks like it also might be a third-party disk controller or maybe a printer interface. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 6 23:45:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards In-Reply-To: <001601c1062b$9bc93620$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Mike wrote: > 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg Printer interface? > 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg ? > 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg See last message... ? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 00:49:55 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Ancient VAX software jackpot! Message-ID: <20010707054955.35625.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> I was moving some boxes in the basement tonight and found something that was recently mentioned on the list - TU-58s of VMS 3.2 through VMS 3.5! I also found my 4.2BSD tapes, and at least one System III tape for the 11/780 along with plenty of Ultrix tapes, Ultrix 32M (on RX-50 for MicroVAX-I) and MicroVMS 4.2. The basement is, as one would expect of a midwestern basement, not bone dry. Some of the tapes show traces of white mold on the edges. I will be, therefore, attempting to read these tapes forthwith. My only functioning 1600 bpi tape drive is presently a TU-80. I could go to a friend's house and try to use his SCSI magtape if that made sense. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 01:00:38 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions Message-ID: <20010707060038.12191.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Now that I have found a missing box of TU-58s, I plan to back them up for archival and emulation purposes. The easiest TU-58 drive I have access to is from an 11/730 (I have a VT-103 in storage, but the other drive is already out). Being as old as it is, the pinch rollers have turned to goo, naturally. Can someone give me a tip on what size Tygon tubing people have been using for replacement rollers? Is this something I can find at a Home Despot or do I have to go to an aquarium shop? Do you clean off all the residue from the aluminum hub, or do you just pull the goo off and put the Tygon right on? Is there an online listing of the jumpers on the TU-58 logic board? I want to make sure it's strapped to something useful. Looking at the internal power cable, Red could be +5 and Orange could be +12V, but does anyone know for sure? I plan to make an adapter cable and power the drive off of a PC floppy power plug. What's good software to make a physical block-for-block backup of a TU-58 tape? I don't care if it's UNIX or Winblows, I can do either. Are there any magical things that have to be done with the data cable, or can I just make sure gnd, pin 2 and pin 3 go through? Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program cover VMS 3.x? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From CELang at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 7 01:03:10 2001 From: CELang at worldnet.att.net (CELang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards Message-ID: <032a01c106ab$f1a23bc0$c2874b0c@oemcomputer> One looks like a printer card... That Fourth Dinemsion card sure looks familiar. I think a friend had one. I'll ask him when I see him next. Instinct says it's an 80 column card, but I'm really just guessing. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Mike To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards >Hi, > >sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also >has a floppy controller for scale) > >1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg > >2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg > >3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg > >Thanks! >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > > From CELang at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 7 01:10:20 2001 From: CELang at worldnet.att.net (CELang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Space War? Message-ID: <033f01c106ab$fa3f20e0$c2874b0c@oemcomputer> The sum total of my knowledge on this is an article in Creative Computing magazine (Aug 1981, Vol 7, No 8) by J. Martin Graetz, one of the guys who wrote it. I see someone has already posted the URL: http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/ That's what got me to dig out the old article the other night. Graetz mentioned in the article that "Spacewar!" was ported to almost any machine of the day that had a scope. I don't know about being the "first game", but as far as arcade type game... I think it could lay a serious claim. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Bob Shannon To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, July 05, 2001 7:37 PM Subject: Space War? >As I understand it, the first video game ever was space war, written at MIT. > >Does anyone here know anything about a port of space war for the HP2115? > >Many years ago I purchased a 2115 from the MIT equipment exchange. Paper >lables on the front panel suggest that the machine at one time played space >war. > >I've kept the core unlatered, but the idea of reverse engineering whatever >code >may (or may not) be stored in core seems impractical. The machine had all its > >I/O boards removed before I got to it. > >I'm tempted to simply ignore the original contents of the core at this point, >and >load something interesting for VCF East, but before I alter it, I'd like to >ask if >anyone has heard of space war running on old HP mini's? > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 01:44:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <033f01c106ab$fa3f20e0$c2874b0c@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706234333.022b3a60@209.185.79.193> As I understand it the Computer Museum History Center brought up SpaceWar on a PDP-1 to demonstrate it before some patent attorneys who used it as 'prior art' to invalidate some video game patents. --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 01:53:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing >the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them >ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this >to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional >brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many >problems for innocent people. Great scifi book, Title: Oath of Fealty, Authors: Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle Basically all about the willingness to trade video privacy, for near absolute security (hey, it works in the book). I LIKE cameras, and they will become more and more popular as the cost of a camera and associated data transmission continues to drop. My only great concern is that drug related crime, mostly addicts stealing to get a fix, is not compressible. Many forces combine together to keep the flow of drug related cash going at the same level or higher, and that meanseffective measures don't tend to stop crime, just to shift it, and so far each shift is to actually worse crimes. Car theft shifts to carjacking, home invasion increases, all the really nasty stuff instead of fairly benign property theft. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 02:16:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) References: <20010707054327.76990.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003d01c106b4$cc5e5a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 11:43 PM Subject: Re: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > The first COMBOARD used 2114 SRAMs because they were more reliable than > > This is slightly before my time, but I was told that the earliest 68000 > designs that used DRAMS, used a derivative of the Z-80 scheme because > the designers of the time were used to it. I didn't mean to imply that > the 68K had some kind of magical in-built DRAM refresh support. > It would have been difficult for them to do, since the CPU didn't have that capability. The Z80 had a hardware refresh cycle built into its operating circuitry. It had a refresh counter (though only 7 bits) which was placed on the address bus while the CPU decoded an opcode. > > The microcode faults I was told about for the XC68000 (not MC68000) would > The XC68000 was the designator for the earliest units, primarily engineering samples of the various masks, though mine, (1978-79) from an early mask design later obsoleted, were marked with the MC68000 designation and a mask number. One of these had bus timing spec's that allowed it to operate at speeds exceeding those of later masks at nearly twice the clock rate. > > lock things up tight for dozens of clock cycles, then go right back at it, > as it nothing ever happened. It was strictly internal to the CPU and caused > by bugs in the first run. Your software never knew what hit it unless it > was checking timings against an external clock. > Anything's possible, but MOT didn't publish anything about this feature in the various engineering notes the published to characterize the various masks they produced. Since the original plans were to use the MC68K with cache, support for DRAM refresh would probably have gotten in the way. Within months of the release of the 68K, 64K DRAMs that worked as fast as the MC68K could digest the data became available, and, as the decision had been made to abandon the masks with timing capable of exceeding the timing for those devices, cacheless DRAM-based memory systems could be designed to run at full speed. > By the time I personally touched a 68000, these kinks were long worked out > (except for knowing that one needs to put low-ohmage resistors (30-60 Ohms) > in series with the refresh lines from a DRAM controller when attempting > to refresh several dozen DRAMs (4164s in this case). I chuckled when I > saw those same resistors in the front memory cartridge of an Amiga 1000. > They at least got them in there by the time their production started. I > added hundreds of 68 Ohm resistors to the first production run of COMBOARD-II > rev 0s. Once one of those came back from the soldering house, I think it > took 3 hours of bench time to apply all the ECOs. Good thing they were > already expensive. > > -ethan > > > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 02:26:41 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Mac on a Sparq In-Reply-To: <200107070506.f6756Pr24819@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at's message of "Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:34:58 +0200" Message-ID: http://www.jagshouse.com/sales.html I just bought the mac environment for the HP series 700, but looks like nobody has taken the Sparq version yet. Apple Macintosh Application Environment - for HP Series 700 workstations running HP - UX 9.0x - CD ROM. run Mac apps on your Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 Apple Macintosh Application Environment - for SunSparc stations running Slaris 2.3 or later - CD ROM . run Mac apps on your Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 I mention it on the list in hopes that somebody here might buy it and send me a copy of the CD. ;) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 02:12:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: <49.d8b18f9.2877db9a@aol.com> Message-ID: >well not really, but its a holy grail to me. I traded one of my tandy 102s to >get an apple //c+ and finally got it today. Now I have every apple // model >now. it's a pretty neat machine. I think it might replace the computer I use I sure like them, and have maybe half a dozen IIc+. BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... (the search doesn't end) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 03:06:42 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Rare mac stuff. In-Reply-To: <004001c10569$a0fb1900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: This from http://www.jagshouse.com/sales.html sorry for the double post, but I forgot to mail this more complete message and have been wondering why nobody was talking about it. (First item is already mine) Apple Macintosh Application Environment (from Apple Computer Inc)- for HP Series 700 workstations running HP - UX 9.0x - CD ROM. run Mac apps on your Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 Apple Macintosh Application Environment(from Apple Computer Inc) - for SunSparc stations running Slaris 2.3 or later - CD ROM . run Mac apps on your Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 Apple Peripheral Interface Guide - Apple II, II, Lisa, MacXL, Macintosh Up to Quadra Macs (1991) - Extremely rare for service techs eyes only! $20 From robwill2 at wxs.nl Sat Jul 7 03:29:35 2001 From: robwill2 at wxs.nl (robwill2@wxs.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: digital vax3300 Message-ID: <200107070828.DAA73028@opal.tseinc.com> Hi, Does anyone know where in the net I can see a picture of this computer?? Thanks, Robert robwill2@wxs.nl From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 7 04:04:20 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Rare mac stuff. In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 01:06:42AM -0700 References: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <004001c10569$a0fb1900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707040420.D21901@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 01:06:42AM -0700, Mike Ford wrote: > Apple Macintosh Application Environment(from Apple > Computer Inc) - for SunSparc stations running Slaris > 2.3 or later - CD ROM . run Mac apps on your > Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes > manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 Extremely rare? Sun put it on the set of CDs they sold with every UltraSPARC machine. I've got at least 2-3 copies of it here... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com Sat Jul 7 06:42:19 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <20010707060038.12191.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 6, 2001 11:00:38 pm" Message-ID: <200107071142.f67BgKC00817@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com> > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > cover VMS 3.x? > > -ethan I think the license does... but the distributions started with 6.x I think. My VaxStation 3100 is on the way FedEx... anyone know what the earliest version of VAX/VMS for it is? I'd like to get a full copy of 3.6 or 4.2 to run... they were the last versions I used doing Field Service. The other thing I'd love to find is RTEM -- the RT11 Emulator. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com Sat Jul 7 06:52:50 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Ultrix Netscape? In-Reply-To: <522.588T1550T674719optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jul 7, 2001 01:07:31 am" Message-ID: <200107071152.f67Bqog00938@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com> > There has been quite a lot of talk on the NetBSD/pmax list about an elusive > version of Netscape for Ultrix. Has anyone ever seen such a beast? All > indications I get from a Google search is that there never was an Ultrix port, > but people on the list claim otherwise. Any Ultrix gurus around here who know? > There probably was one in the Navigator 0.9 - 1.0 days... It appears, though that there's nothing older than 3.04 on the FTP site anymore... I'll have to check my old CD's and see if there was an Ultrix version. Meanwhile... why not compile mozilla? Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From mwp at acm.org Sat Jul 7 07:53:10 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <001901c10698$53f14140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <007801c106e3$c6d0cc80$0800a8c0@zeus> If the Vice-President becomes President due to death or incapacitation of the President, then he nominates VP subject to congressional confirmation. The President pro tem of the Senate is after the Speaker of the House in the line of succession--this changed with the 25th amendment in 1967. The only way for the Speaker of the House to become President by succession is for both the President and Vice-President to be lost at the same time. Yes, I looked it up : 25th Amendment: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am25 U.S. Code Title III Section 19: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/3/19.html --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Erlacher" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > That certainly holds out more promise or helping the energy problem than the two > Texans do. Since the VP is a mite smarter than George-the-first's veep was, he > serves as less of a threat to those who might consider doing something really > radical ... BTW, who's the present Pres. pro-tem of the Senate? DC's > power-assisted heart might not handle Dubya's passing, should the fates smile on > us, doncha know. > > Dick From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jul 7 08:13:14 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We have an Atmos also. On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, John Honniball wrote: > > On 6 Jul 2001 0:17:23 +0100 Iggy Drougge > wrote: > > > Davison, Lee skrev: > > >Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos > > > > Does anyone here have an Atmos? > > Yes! > > > It's really an adorable design on the outside, > > with that black and red colour scheme. > > Indeed. I have one with a natty little cloth dust cover, > so it's in good condition. I have some manuals and > software, too. > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From west at tseinc.com Sat Jul 7 20:18:25 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: HP2000 Access status update References: Message-ID: <002501c1074b$e40d40e0$6e8953d1@jay> After a week of vacation dedicated almost entirely to getting an HP2000 Access machine operational, it's actually starting to get very close to coming together! Both 2100 processors pass diags, all the associated cards pass diags, the 7900A is humming along perfectly, and at long last the 7970E tape drive is working fine. I even got the 2000 Access IOP firmware installed into the IOP cpu. After years I'm now so close I can taste it! Here's whats still on the to-do/missing/dead list... I need four of the 12566 GRD TRU +/- boards for the processor interconnect kit. I had all four tested & running a few months ago, but at least one of the 12566 boards died - so, anyone have some 12566 boards they'll part with? I should need only 1, but 2 would make it easier to retest the remaining boards. Next, the main cpu needs 32Kw and the IOP needs 16kw, 24kw, or 32kw depending on the I/O configuration - I suspect I can get by with the 16kw setup because I'm not going to load the comms (RJE) software modules and will only have a 16 user system. I only have 32kw total because 4 of the 8kw core boards are dead, and one of the 16K ID boards is toast. I've done the testing with 16kw in each machine, but this won't let me load the O/S. I need two 8K core boards at a minimum, preferrably four plus a 16K ID board. The only board in the entire setup that hasn't been tested and proven to be working is the 12920/12921 asynchronous multiplexor (3 board set). I have two sets of these boards, but one I suspect from the outset isn't alive (the burned resistor on the card was a giveaway). With any luck, the other set will test ok, otherwise I need to locate another or repair them. It's not a requirement, but one thing that would be nice to have is the "HP 13206A 2000/Access communications processor firmware diagnostic". Once the OS is loaded, it would be pretty obvious if the firmware isn't working, but this is the one diagnostic I'm missing. The paper tape is 13206-16001, or if it's on different media the DSN is 101016. So there's the state of the 2000/Access project, I'll keep folks posted when it actually boots up the O/S (although you'll probably be able to hear the shouts of "woohoo!" from out of state). Regards, Jay West From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 08:29:37 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Old VMS (was Re: TU-58 questions) In-Reply-To: <200107071142.f67BgKC00817@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010707132937.50939.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > I'd like to get a full copy of 3.6 or 4.2 to run... they were the last > versions I used doing Field Service. I _might_ have 4.2 on magtape. I know I do not have 3.6. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 08:34:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <003d01c106b4$cc5e5a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707133433.51153.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > It would have been difficult for them to do, since the CPU didn't have that > capability. The Z80 had a hardware refresh cycle built into its operating > circuitry. It had a refresh counter (though only 7 bits) which was placed on > the address bus while the CPU decoded an opcode. I realize that. I think what I was being told about was a refresh system that depended on some line out of the CPU to tell when it was safe to do a refresh cycle. The CPU locks up temporarily and blocks the refresh accidentally until it recovers. > > > > The microcode faults I was told about for the XC68000 (not MC68000) would > > > The XC68000 was the designator for the earliest units, primarily engineering > samples of the various masks... Yes. My boss still has ours. It has a serial number (#424) engraved on the lid. We were told that the first 400 were for internal Motorola use. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 08:35:18 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010707133518.82345.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > I sure like them, and have maybe half a dozen IIc+. > > BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... (the > search doesn't end) Boards? I have a IIc+. Presuming this isn't a troll, where do the boards go? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 08:37:13 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706234333.022b3a60@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20010707133713.82397.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > As I understand it the Computer Museum History Center brought up SpaceWar > on a PDP-1 to demonstrate it before some patent attorneys who used it as > 'prior art' to invalidate some video game patents. I'm not sure about that, but it sounds like a derivative story of when Charlie Lasner did that on one of his old scope-equipped computers. He had the listings entered as evidence of when the program was written, then the court adjourned to his place in Queens to show that it was a real program and not just theoretical. The patents were overturned. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 08:46:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <2493.588T900T2134785optimus@canit.se> References: <2493.588T900T2134785optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >We didn't have to modify the motherboard, just move some jumpers for clocks >and such, though we did have to saw a hole in the disk bay to accomodate the >fan, since the card had been overclocked. Took a whole day, and goes to prove >how cramped the A3000 is. >The '060 does a much better job at handling heat than the '040. In its >original 50 MHz state, it only had a small heatsink, whereas a small fan was >added when it was overclocked to 60 or 66 MHz. That's cool. I didn't realize that the '060 ran so much cooler than the '040. I may have a line on a MK II that's available myself, which is why I asked. I'll never try to put an A3640 in another A3000! The poor machine never worked quite right after that. >What INT2 mod, BTW? The mod to add the missing int2 interrupt line to the A3000's CPU slot. I guess it's only needed for the Cyberstorm's with SCSI controllers, like the MK III. It involves running a jumper wire from pin 21 on the CIA at U350 to pin 82 on the CPU slot, CN606. It's done from the bottom of the board, so the whole mainboard has to be removed. I've done that before to replace the clock battery and that takes a bit of work. Supposedly that interrupt line was left out because C= didn't want 3rd party vendors hanging I/O off of the CPU slot, but to use the ZorroIII bus instead and that's what the line is used for. Both the A2000 and A4000 have that interrupt on the CPU slot though. >Perhaps am I just spoiled by Amiga performance, but all my Mac activites under >emulation have been unbearably slow. Mind you, nowadays I think that my (68k) >Macs are just as slow. It's quite amazing to think that my Centris actually >runs at a higher clock speed than my A4000. At the time I was using Shapeshifter though I only had a Mac Plus and a Classic II, so it ran faster than either of them and it was also in color. Now my little Color Classic offers plenty of advantages over Shapeshifter, plus it's CPU has been upgraded to a 33mhz '040, so it's also faster than the A4000. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 7 08:50:44 2001 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: SDI cabling for Ra73 and UDA50 References: <002501c1074b$e40d40e0$6e8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <063a01c106eb$d1a335a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Sorry to repeat if this has been recently covered. I've got a VAX750 with UDA50 mscp controller that I'd like to run with an RA73. Can anyone point me to what cabling I'd need? Can I buy it or do I need to make a custom set? Also trying to track down a TU58 boot/diag tape for this unit to get it up and running online and into my DEC/Cray/PC museum... Regards, Heinz From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sat Jul 7 09:31:25 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: digital vax3300 Message-ID: <20010707143125.EE4F920F23@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-07-07 robwill2@wxs.nl said to classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Hi, >Does anyone know where in the net I can see a picture of >this computer?? >Thanks, >Robert I've got a MicroVAX 3300 in my living room, here it is: http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/lroom.html Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Jul 7 09:33:19 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512CD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as > > part of the Mac's heritage. > > That's the only reason I'd have any interest in it. I remember playing > with a Lisa right about the time the 128K Mac showed up. My oldest Mac > is a 512Ke that my mother bought new, full-price as a 512K and paid to > upgrade (new ROMs, double-sided drive). My same exact experience... > I'm also a big Motorola 68K fan. One of my favorite jobs ever was hacking > COMBOARDs in assembly and C (8Mhz 68000 w/32K SRAM up to 2Mb DRAM). I'd worked with the IBM ARTIC card; it was 80186-based, but it would have been so much cooler and easier to program for had it been a 68k- based board. > > Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't > > those times... > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most of his > stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's asking $300. I > did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet adapters, complete with > docs, cables and software for $8, bare box only, $5. I want to turn an SE > or Plus into a localtalk gateway with that software from Apple's ftp site > that has been mentioned here once or twice. I've got one of those from another manufacturer; Nova or something similar. > I'll go back to the sale on Sunday and see what hasn't moved and offer the > guy about 20% of his asking prices on some stuff and see how bad he wants > to sell it. Sounds like a plan. Regards, -dq From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jul 7 09:48:39 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <3B472147.AF6E7D82@tiac.net> 2115 drams are 3 rail. 2114 srams are 5 volts only. 2104 drams are also 3 rail. Louis Schulman wrote: > I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's > invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. > > The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, > are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). > > A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic > ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 > chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. > > So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips > equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not > equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of > the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? > > A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and > selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). > > Thanks, Louis From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:05:20 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001901c1063a$2ce8ab00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's all in preparation for the day when there will be only one > punishment for all crime ... and I still favor the immersion in molten > iron for punishment. It would make a good show at halftime during the > superbowl. Tie 'em to a steel rail and lower 'em into the pot at > about 1" per second ... feet first, then tell the kids, "See? That's > what happens if you don't go to school. That's what happens if you > steal ... " We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old bastard. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:09:18 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate > of immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced > a death-wish as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. > by spitting on the sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of > people, with a written apology issued in the unlikely even that > someone unjustly punished complain because their rights have been > violated. It's got to be like violating a law, any law, is equivalent > to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. I've considered > that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten iron > be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass > murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the > chance to enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. Yes, Dick, I dream of the day when friends, family, and perfect strangers, will be put to death by immersion in molten iron for even spitting on the sidewalk. Then, our society will be safe, secure, and HAPPY!!! DICK FOR PRESIDENT!!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:13:54 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <20010706183323.79003.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have the chance to pick up a Lisa CPU unit only. It has a 3.5" > drive visible from the front, no cards visible from the outside > (couldn't open the back to look in), and does not come with keyboard > or mouse. On the back are a video out jack, two 25-pin serial > connections, a reset button and an interrupt button. The power switch > lights up and is next to the 1/4" keyboard jack. > > When I turn it on, the screen looks good and I can see it going > through its paces. It complains that there is no keyboard. I have no > idea how much one would cost, but I expect it's >$50. > > I do not know how to tell if has been "upgraded" to a Mac/XL or if it > is original. > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? With no keyboard or mouse it's not of much use. And it's not the keyboard is easy to find either (any older Mac mouse will work). The fact that it boots means the cards are all there. $50 would be about the maximum I'd be willing to pay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:15:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing > the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them > ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this > to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional > brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many > problems for innocent people. They should get guns and shoot them down! Oops, Englanders aren't allowed to own guns. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:22:03 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <20010706210924.30117.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet > adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box > only, $5. I want to turn an SE or Plus into a localtalk gateway with > that software from Apple's ftp site that has been mentioned here once > or twice. Well, since he's trying to go out of business, does he really want to go through the trouble of having to list this thing on eBay to get the $300 that he wants? If not then he should sell it to you for a far more reasonable $50. Without a keyboard or mouse (don't tell him a Mac mouse will work :) he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. He won't get substantially more than $50, and the trouble he would have to go through to get the money, pack it and ship it will make it not worth the effort. Try to diplomatically bring this to his attention and maybe he'll see it your way :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:27:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706204036.00aa60d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > Personally I'd like to see the competency tests brought back > and I'd like to see it written so that potential voters would have to > at least have some knowledge of the issues and candidates. But if we > did that there'd be Or we should force the news media to be more useful than reporting about what politician is fucking who and instead have segments on proper procedure for voting. The problem is ignorance, and the solution is education, not more ignorance. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jul 7 10:44:53 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 7, 1 07:22:03 am" Message-ID: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet > adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box > only, $5. Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Art is either plagiarism or revolution. -- Paul Gauguin -------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 10:48:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> <3B472147.AF6E7D82@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000a01c106fc$34ca8f60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have to disagree ... i2115's are open-drain versions of the tri-state i2125, and both of these are single-supply 1k x 1 SRAMs. If you plug a 2115 into a 2116/2117 application, you'll quickly become aware of the differences since the single-supply 2115's Vcc will be at gnd, and its gnd will be at +12, its nCS will be at -5, and the A5 input will be connected to +5. I would expect the package to pop within less than 10 seconds. I did verify this information from the 1987 Intel Memory Components Handbook. 16K DRAMs were no longer of interest, and, since Intel actually never manufactured them anyway, simply packaging someone else's parts with their brand label, there was no need for them to include the 3-rail 4116-equivalents in their databook. Intel did take a stab at selling (I don't know whether they attempted to build them themselves.) Single rail 16-K DRAMs, the 2118's, which were also touted as the fastest DRAMs on the market at that time. With the rapidly approaching availability of the 4164's, this was a stepping stone to the larger memory arrays that were of great appeal to the users of the new 16-bit CPU's, allowing board makers to design boards with single supplies. However, the Intel DRAM controllers of the 16K era, i.e. the i3242/i3480 combination, didn't deal with mulitiplexing 16 bits of address, so would-be designers of 64K DRAM-compatible memory boards had either to wait for the new generation of DRAM controllers, or to design their own multiplexing/refresh-address-generation logic from TTL SSI/MSI, or perhaps PALs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:48 AM Subject: Re: 2116 and other old memory chips > 2115 drams are 3 rail. > > 2114 srams are 5 volts only. > > 2104 drams are also 3 rail. > > Louis Schulman wrote: > > > I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's > > invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. > > > > The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, > > are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). > > > > A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic > > ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 > > chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. > > > > So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips > > equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not > > equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of > > the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? > > > > A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and > > selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). > > > > Thanks, Louis > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 10:50:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001001c106fc$911544e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Hey! Remember that age is a fate that awaits us all. I guarantee you, though, that if this approach to punishment were adopted, folks would behave differently. Maybe even you ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:05 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's all in preparation for the day when there will be only one > > punishment for all crime ... and I still favor the immersion in molten > > iron for punishment. It would make a good show at halftime during the > > superbowl. Tie 'em to a steel rail and lower 'em into the pot at > > about 1" per second ... feet first, then tell the kids, "See? That's > > what happens if you don't go to school. That's what happens if you > > steal ... " > > We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old > bastard. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 7 10:45:43 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis's message of "Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:44:36 -0700" References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706234333.022b3a60@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <200107071545.f67Fjhs45452@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Chuck McManis wrote: > As I understand it the Computer Museum History Center brought up SpaceWar > on a PDP-1 to demonstrate it before some patent attorneys who used it as > 'prior art' to invalidate some video game patents. IIRC, TCM's PDP-1 failed to power up at some time while still at TCM in Boston. (Early-mid 1990s?) It is now at Moffett Field, and there is (or was recently) interest in restoring it to functionality. -Frank McConnell From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 10:53:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001601c106fc$efb18b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Keep in mind, my boy, that there are advocates for ZERO POPULATION out there. Not zero population growth, but ZERO POPULATION. Think about how much better that would make the world. None of man's damaging effects on the planet would be continued, though the effects would probably persist for about 100 millenia. Probably not a bad idea if you're a frog. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: OT: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate > > of immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced > > a death-wish as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. > > by spitting on the sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of > > people, with a written apology issued in the unlikely even that > > someone unjustly punished complain because their rights have been > > violated. It's got to be like violating a law, any law, is equivalent > > to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. I've considered > > that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten iron > > be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass > > murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the > > chance to enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. > > Yes, Dick, I dream of the day when friends, family, and perfect strangers, > will be put to death by immersion in molten iron for even spitting on the > sidewalk. Then, our society will be safe, secure, and HAPPY!!! > > DICK FOR PRESIDENT!!! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 10:03:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... > (the search doesn't end) Like? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 11:04:51 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <002a01c106fe$8e524260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's like recommending that a 120 TTon nuke on TelAviv or Damascus as a solution to middle-east strife. It would solve a number of problems. The bones of contention there, including the bulk of the world's oil supply would be essentially gone, (everything from Tehran to well past Cairo, including parts of Turkey, etc, would be under about a km of glass), thereby reducing the air pollution attributable to petroleum use, and it wouldn't be safe to go there for a couple of thousand years, so folks lucky enough to survive here on Earth would probably forget about that stuff. It's possible someone might come up with a solution more compatible with the interests of the folks who are central to the mid-east struggle, however, but this would certainly end the fighting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing > > the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them > > ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this > > to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional > > brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many > > problems for innocent people. > > They should get guns and shoot them down! Oops, Englanders aren't allowed > to own guns. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 10:14:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001001c106fc$911544e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Hey! Remember that age is a fate that awaits us all. I guarantee Yes, but some of us will fare it better than others. > you, though, that if this approach to punishment were adopted, folks > would behave differently. Maybe even you ... Yeah, we'd all be reduced to sitting at home and spewing forth obnoxious missives about how our fellow man should be immersed in molten iron for spitting on the sidewalk. Get some Viagra, dude. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 10:20:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001601c106fc$efb18b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Keep in mind, my boy, that there are advocates for ZERO POPULATION out > there. Not zero population growth, but ZERO POPULATION. Think about > how much better that would make the world. None of man's damaging > effects on the planet would be continued, though the effects would > probably persist for about 100 millenia. Probably not a bad idea if > you're a frog. Well, my decrepit old fool, I'd like to point out that some people advocate the euthanization of old people who complain too much about stupid shit. But as annoying as you are, I still wouldn't want to see you meet such a fate, despite the fact that you above anyone else deserve it for advocating similar atrocities. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 7 11:37:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Mannesmann Tally printer Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707123512.00a1b130@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone have a manual for the MannesMann Tally MT 730 MobileWriter printer? I picked up a pile of them at a hamfest and they look like nice little printers but I have no instructions for them what so ever. Joe From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jul 7 11:40:47 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: <82.cb51fc0.2878958f@aol.com> WTF? can we get back on topic here? this is stupid. anyway, in my attempt to bring this back ontopic, I found a compaq portable II. other than the floppy drives, is there any difference between the II and III models? In a message dated 7/7/01 12:12:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick@idcomm.com writes: << It's like recommending that a 120 TTon nuke on TelAviv or Damascus as a solution to middle-east strife. It would solve a number of problems. The bones of contention there, including the bulk of the world's oil supply would be essentially gone, (everything from Tehran to well past Cairo, including parts of Turkey, etc, would be under about a km of glass), thereby reducing the air pollution attributable to petroleum use, and it wouldn't be safe to go there for a couple of thousand years, so folks lucky enough to survive here on Earth would probably forget about that stuff. It's possible someone might come up with a solution more compatible with the interests of the folks who are central to the mid-east struggle, however, but this would certainly end the fighting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing > > the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them > > ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this > > to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional > > brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many > > problems for innocent people. > > They should get guns and shoot them down! Oops, Englanders aren't allowed > to own guns. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > >> -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 12:07:29 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jul 07, 2001 08:44:53 AM Message-ID: <200107071707.f67H7TD02233@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > > asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet > > adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box > > only, $5. > > Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for > a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! You are in luck, then, as I have at least one (possibly two) of these that I used to use with my PowerBook 100. If you're interested I'll try to dig them up this weekend. The PB100 is available, too, if you collect Mac stuff. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 7 12:08:09 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old > bastard. HARRUMPH! Talk like that could get you written out of my will. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Jul 7 12:36:18 2001 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? References: <200107071707.f67H7TD02233@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <0d0401c1070b$54ae7a80$b523010a@dbnh> How much do you want for your PB100? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: Re: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > > > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > > > asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet > > > adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box > > > only, $5. > > > > Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for > > a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! > > You are in luck, then, as I have at least one (possibly two) of these > that I used to use with my PowerBook 100. If you're interested I'll > try to dig them up this weekend. > > The PB100 is available, too, if you collect Mac stuff. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 11:55:15 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old > > bastard. > > HARRUMPH! > Talk like that could get you written out of my will. Well, you can be curmudgeonly, but you're certainly not a bastard ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 7 13:24:31 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <82.cb51fc0.2878958f@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707142049.00aa9d70@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:40 PM 7/7/01 -0400, you wrote: >WTF? can we get back on topic here? this is stupid. anyway, in my attempt to >bring this back ontopic, I found a compaq portable II. other than the floppy >drives, is there any difference between the II and III models? Oh yeah, big difference. The II is a re[packages P I and is only sluightly smaller than a P 1. It still has the CRT. The P!!! is much smaller, uses a 286 CPU and has a gas plasma screen. Joe >In a message dated 7/7/01 12:12:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick@idcomm.com >writes: > ><< It's like recommending that a 120 TTon nuke on TelAviv or Damascus as a >solution > to middle-east strife. It would solve a number of problems. The bones of > contention there, including the bulk of the world's oil supply would be > essentially gone, (everything from Tehran to well past Cairo, including >parts of > Turkey, etc, would be under about a km of glass), thereby reducing the air > pollution attributable to petroleum use, and it wouldn't be safe to go > there >for > a couple of thousand years, so folks lucky enough to survive here on Earth >would > probably forget about that stuff. > > It's possible someone might come up with a solution more compatible with the > interests of the folks who are central to the mid-east struggle, > however, but > this would certainly end the fighting. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:15 AM > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > > > Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing > > > the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them > > > ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this > > > to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional > > > brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many > > > problems for innocent people. > > > > They should get guns and shoot them down! Oops, Englanders aren't allowed > > to own guns. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > > > > > >> > > >-- >DB Young Team OS/2 > >old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: >www.nothingtodo.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 13:40:53 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 7, 1 07:22:03 am" Message-ID: >> No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most >> of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's >> asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet >> adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box >> only, $5. > >Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for >a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! They aren't rare, I am sure you had one in your hand last time you were here. Asante EN SC, but I wouldn't use one for a SE/30 unless there was a good reason why I couldn't use an internal card. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 13:00:38 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Need manual for DCS FDK2 floppy controller Message-ID: I need the documentation for a Distributed Computer Systems FDK2 8" floppy disk controller (multi-bus). Might anyone here have this? If so, please reply to me directly. Thanks!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 12:02:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No complaints about stupid shit, but about stupid shits like you, Sellam Ismail. All I've said in this thread is that people should obey the law. If they don't like it, they can endeavor, within the law, to change it to something they like, but if they disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't want to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the planet. Making it hurt a little is to keep people from thinking it's a cheap way to commit suicide. Clearly, you can't see the sense of this, but that's for reasons you've amply demostrated in the past. (It's sad when cousins marry ... It's not your fault ... You ARE the fault.) You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be killed for speeding, even if you only did it once, you wouldn't speed. You know you'd be killed for stepping off a cliff, and you don't do that. The fact remains that if laws were different, people would behave differently. BTW ... ask an adult what a FOO is, as in "Hey, FOO..." Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: OT: Re: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Keep in mind, my boy, that there are advocates for ZERO POPULATION out > > there. Not zero population growth, but ZERO POPULATION. Think about > > how much better that would make the world. None of man's damaging > > effects on the planet would be continued, though the effects would > > probably persist for about 100 millenia. Probably not a bad idea if > > you're a frog. > > Well, my decrepit old fool, I'd like to point out that some people > advocate the euthanization of old people who complain too much about > stupid shit. > > But as annoying as you are, I still wouldn't want to see you meet such a > fate, despite the fact that you above anyone else deserve it for > advocating similar atrocities. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 7 14:38:09 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B476521.52325F9B@idirect.com> >Mike Ford wrote: > My only great concern is that drug related crime, mostly addicts stealing > to get a fix, is not compressible. Many forces combine together to keep the > flow of drug related cash going at the same level or higher, and that > meanseffective measures don't tend to stop crime, just to shift it, and so > far each shift is to actually worse crimes. Car theft shifts to carjacking, > home invasion increases, all the really nasty stuff instead of fairly > benign property theft. Jerome Fine replies: Before anyone suggests any additional solutions to stop "criminal activity", I suggest that a very detailed study be made of how the US handled prohibition and its subsequent abolition. From how I understand prohibition was handled, the first step was to concede that it was impossible to enforce. After that, everything else was probably mishandled - as politicians are apt to do - and the end result was a lot of unemployed criminals (bootleggers) who had made a lot of money and had built up an infrastructure that needed to be used - to make more money for the ex-bootleggers. Maybe similar to what happened in Russia after the collapse in 1990. I also think that there is a strong link between the lack of social justice within so-called democracies and the number of people who commit crimes. So that while the link between the lack of social justice in a dictatorship and the number of people who commit crimes is easier to understand and see in a dictatorship (either the left like communism or the right like fascism), I suggest that countries which have a higher than average crime rate (and therefore more people in jail on average than other countries) should look at their priorities. A repressive and less fare criminal justice system (especially in Canada for the poor, blacks and native North Americans and in the US for the poor and racial minorities - I get the impression that there are no longer enough native North Americans in the US to cause a problem any longer - I have not mentioned any other countries that are so-called democracies since I don't know enough about the local conditions) is definitely a substitute for spending on social justice (access to health care in the US is just one example), but I wonder if supporting a non-productive prison population is more effective than providing a minimum of health care? And while the above observations are very simplistic, I also see the same attitudes reflected in the activities that Microsoft practices that were found to be illegal. I don't know which is worse? Illegal activity by the government, by companies or by individuals? I do suggest that in many cases, like with drug problems referred to above in the US, any attempt to suppress just the symptoms rather than the cause is likely going to fail. Any even with a program that is providing a vital service, such as with health care - who is checking to see if the service is carefully and safely delivered? Are there any test cases fed into the system (blind tests would be absolutely necessary) to determine how effective the system is being run? For example, do the police ever have to account for having made errors in how they handle a case or a nurse ever have to account for patient care or a doctor on treatment options. A 1% to 2% blind test case load for every institution to determine the extent to which errors are made should be mandatory in my opinion just as we have checksums on EVERY disk block so that we can determine if any errors are taking place. If we can checksum every disk block and insist on error rates of less than 1 in a trillion, why should a hospital be allowed to refuse to audit all care and accept blind tests for a minimum of at least 1% ot their case load? Likewise, lab tests, police, welfare offices, vets, politicians, lawyers, programmers, etc. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 14:56:55 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar Message-ID: Saw a post from 7/6 on the PS/2 newsgroup and have sent a message to him. If anyone else is looking for him try this email address: sridhar@cloud9.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/6e2daa4f/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 7 13:17:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: <200107070104.VAA14289@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jul 6, 1 09:04:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1555 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/5990aedf/attachment.ksh From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 14:05:05 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Old radio gear available...cheap? Message-ID: I'm working on retrieving a large haul of Osborne stuff from the wife of a former Osborne engineer who passed away earlier this year. Among his stuff is included the following radio gear, and I was wondering if anyone here was interested in any of it. The lady lives a good 4-5 hours from me and I plan to make the trip sometime in the next couple of weekends. I can bring back whatever radio gear anyone expresses an interest in and have it shipped out to them. I don't know what the lady wants for this stuff, so include an offer. She justs wants it to be out of her garage as she is moving, so any reasonable offer will probably be fine. Because of the long drive and my shortage of time these days, I'll want 1.5 * shipping for my trouble on top of your offer. The descriptions are terse so if you have any questions about any of the gear, let me know and I'll try to get answers for you. I don't think she will be able to answer any heavily technical questions. Here is what's available: Navy ships transmitter/receiver put in service in 1944 made by Stromberg in England Navy amplifier same era WWII Tank Receiver/transmitter made by Weston Navy Signal corp freq meter with last calibration manual 8' Altec cabinet with tube type modules I have no idea what this stuff is beyond what the descriptions say. Please get questions to me within the next couple days so I can send them out to her all at once. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 7 13:34:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <000d01c10697$34e473e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 6, 1 09:45:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1678 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/930b3b11/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 7 13:43:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 6, 1 08:57:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/94da4be9/attachment.ksh From ernestls at home.com Sat Jul 7 15:18:38 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Who is he, and why are you trying to find this guy? Ernest -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 12:57 PM To: Classic computers message group Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar Saw a post from 7/6 on the PS/2 newsgroup and have sent a message to him. If anyone else is looking for him try this email address: sridhar@cloud9.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/54f1e0f0/attachment.html From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 7 17:12:54 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> - - - - - "if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't want to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the planet." - - - - - Sorry, I can't let a statement like this be made without dissent. (1) I can't expect an enforceable perfection from others, and (2) see no need to make any penalties not match the crimes involved. This is the modern equivalent of 'Eye for an Eye'. - - - - - "Clearly, you can't see the sense of this" - - - - - Yup, me too. - - - - - "You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be killed for speeding" - - - - - If you're talking about death for speeding and the like, then I believe the people would toss law enforcement altogether and start over. John A. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 7 18:13:29 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <770.589T1450T134587optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most >> of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's >> asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet >> adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box >> only, $5. >Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for >a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! Aren't they as common as dirt? There are lots of them at my local electronicws surplus shop, and they often show up in auctions. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 7 18:17:51 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My network took a major power dump. I am back now. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Saw a post from 7/6 on the PS/2 newsgroup and have sent a message to him. If > anyone else is looking for him try this email address: > > sridhar@cloud9.net > From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 7 18:20:18 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is that also why static RAM is so much faster? Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > This answers most of my questions, thanks. One further question. What > > is the difference between "static" ram and "dynamic" ram, since both > > are "volatile" ram? Or, putting it another way, what is "static" about > > "static" ram, since it changes as well? > > OK... > > Static RAM is made from flip-flops. Which means that when you write data > to it, you set some flip flops one way (for '1's) and some the other way > (for '0's). And the flip-flops remain in that state until either you turn > the power off or you write some other data to it. > > Dynamic RAM is made from capacitors. Generally, a '1' is represented by a > charge on a capacitor, a '0' is a discharged capacitor. Writing data to > DRAM involves charging some capacitors and discharging others. > > The problem is that all electronics has leakages. So the capacitors > discharge themselves (in a few milliseconds). So you have to read each > location periodically and write the data back again to 'refresh' the > charge on the capacitors. Most (all?) DRAMs have internal circuitry to > help with this (e.g. accessing a particular location will refresh a > number of locations -- perhaps all those with the same pattern in the > high-order half of the address). But you still have to do something -- on > 'classic' DRAMs, you have to cycle the address inputs and apply RAS/ > pulses (or at least that's the normal way). If you don't, you lose data. > > That's the difference. The contents of static RAM are maintained as long > as power is applied. Dynamic RAM needs to be refreshed or it will forget. > > -tony > From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 7 18:20:59 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: He is me. He posts here every once in a while 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Ernest wrote: > Who is he, and why are you trying to find this guy? > > Ernest > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 12:57 PM > To: Classic computers message group > Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar > > > Saw a post from 7/6 on the PS/2 newsgroup and have sent a message to him. > If anyone else is looking for him try this email address: > > sridhar@cloud9.net > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 7 18:24:08 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Ah, that explains it. I think it's safe to say that no paper tape or card > reader ever used a sealed-beam headlamp :-) That's exactly what I meant. Anybody have personal experience on the issue of "read twice; badly read cards physically removed from deck"? > > device. BTW, relatively recently non-sealed beam halogen units became > > legal, finally. > They've been around in the UK for at least 20 years, and probably longer. I was using them in the US 30 years ago. Illegally. Does that mean that emperor Dick will have me executed? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 18:12:31 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >"if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't >want > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the >planet." A bit of irony to that statement being made relative to July 4th, the celebration of our refusal to obey English law. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 18:24:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: <770.589T1450T134587optimus@canit.se> References: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >>> asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet >>> adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box >>> only, $5. > >>Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for >>a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! > >Aren't they as common as dirt? There are lots of them at my local electronicws >surplus shop, and they often show up in auctions. These boxes work with any mac that has a SCSI port, but the primary use was with the early powerbooks that lacked both expansion and ethernet. As those early powerbooks were surplussed, so were the EN SC boxes, which means tons a few years ago, and now barely a trickle. Selling them has gone a bit backwards, as most with powerbooks that could use them have them, but plenty of compact mac users want them so they don't have to open up their macs to install one of the ethernet cards. From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jul 7 18:43:04 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: <006e01c0b403$d9cbd650$b7799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Repost of message for Ethan... On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > >> > There is out there a TU-58 emulator for PeeCee... > > > There is one that runs under UNIX. > > Also the rollers for the TU58 I clean off the goo to get down to the > basic hub then use .500 od/.375 id Tygon tubing. which is a stretch > fit over the hub, add a drop of super glue and trim to width as > diameter is not critical and that material seems to hit it very close. > I've done this to maybe 8 them I still use. > > Allison > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 18:48:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: References: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >plenty of compact mac users want them so they don't have to open up their >macs to install one of the ethernet cards. At least with the Color Classic you don't have to open up the case itself...just the small access cover on the rear that allows the mainboard to be pulled out enough to insert a PDS card in t he loan PDS slot. I dread the thought of opening the case of one of the earlier ones, such as the Plus, though most people likely wouldn't for anything other than a RAM upgrade. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jul 7 18:46:50 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <20010707060038.12191.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ethan, I built some magic cables and plug the bare drive & board into a PC to dump the tapes. If you are interested, I'll dig up the source to the DOS program I used... I also have the TU58 tech manual, so I can post the jumpers if needed. I'd do it now, but Nascar is starting and I need to pour myself a coke :) Clint PS This message posted in memory of Dale Earnhardt, who lost his life in the last turn of the 2001 Daytona 500. On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Now that I have found a missing box of TU-58s, I plan to back them up > for archival and emulation purposes. The easiest TU-58 drive I have > access to is from an 11/730 (I have a VT-103 in storage, but the other > drive is already out). Being as old as it is, the pinch rollers have > turned to goo, naturally. > > Can someone give me a tip on what size Tygon tubing people have been > using for replacement rollers? Is this something I can find at a > Home Despot or do I have to go to an aquarium shop? Do you clean off > all the residue from the aluminum hub, or do you just pull the goo off > and put the Tygon right on? > > Is there an online listing of the jumpers on the TU-58 logic board? I > want to make sure it's strapped to something useful. Looking at the > internal power cable, Red could be +5 and Orange could be +12V, but > does anyone know for sure? I plan to make an adapter cable and power > the drive off of a PC floppy power plug. > > What's good software to make a physical block-for-block backup of a > TU-58 tape? I don't care if it's UNIX or Winblows, I can do either. > > Are there any magical things that have to be done with the data cable, or > can I just make sure gnd, pin 2 and pin 3 go through? > > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > cover VMS 3.x? > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 19:00:49 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! Message-ID: I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 COPYRIGHT 1986 DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION What is it? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 7 19:20:25 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707201718.00ab0dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone have the technical manual for the Navtel SuperTest 25 RS-232 breakout box? I need to know how to make it act like as a DCE. It's a green metal box that's about 3 x 3"inches and about 9" tall. Joe From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 19:31:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) References: Message-ID: <001901c10745$4d220ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> While 2114's weren't the only common I/O SRAMs, they were the first in really broad usage. I'd guess that the reason for so many problems associated with them was that it took a while for people to figure out how to use common I/O devices in fairly tightly timed circuits such as shared video refresh memory in a microprocessor-based system. The timing looked quite simple, but between setup and hold time restrictions and the correct timing of the nWE line, it was pretty easy for folks to get into contention problems. I suspect that was a pretty significant factor in the frequency of malfunction with these devices. They were really popular in video games, many of which weren't terribly well designed, since that would have run up their cost. They were popular, though, because they took up less space than an equvalent number of 2102's, which had separate data in and out. As for failures, I don't remember lots of trouble with them. I suspect that they were easier to use, and hence, less prone to misuse, in systems with a single write line rather than a write and a read, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) > > While I don't dispute Tony's experience, mine has been somewhat different. I've > > My comments (about the unreliability of 2114s) are not based on a real > scientific survey. It's just that I have had an excessive number of 2114s > fail. The most recent case was an HP82163 HPIL video interface. It was > working a few months back, I tried it again and got some garbled > characters. Writing to one position on the screen would sometimes cause > another character elswehere on the screen to be changed. > > It looked like an addressing error for the top 4 bits of video memory. > There was a pattern to the corruption -- the corrupted character would > have the bottom 4 bits left alone, but the top 4 bits sent to the same > states as those for the character you'd just written. > > It was either a very obscure fault in the HP-custom video chip, or a > video RAM playing up. The video RAMs were 1K*4 devices, 18pin DIL, with > HP numbers. But they were really 2114s. I changed one of them (for once I > picked the right one first time), and the unit worked again. > > It's got to the point, I am afraid, where if I see a board with 2114s on > it, and the fault could well be RAM-related, then I test an/or change the > 2114s. > > I have had other RAM fail. A DEC LA324 where all the SRAM chips (I think > it's 2 32K*8 and 1 8K*8 one) failed at once. And I've had the odd 4116 or > 4164 die. But they seem to be more reliable than 2114s... > > > If one uses only 1000 or so part per week, one doesn't get a complete picture of > > the real failure rates of memory devices, if you test 40 boards at a time, each > > Very true. > > However, I'll still suspect 2114s if the fault can be memory-related :-) > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 19:45:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > - - - - - > "if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't > want > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the > planet." > - - - - - > Sorry, I can't let a statement like this be made without dissent. > (1) I can't expect an enforceable perfection from others, and It's the notion of intent that's the problem. You can't measure that, however, so it's the act that's got to be the determining factor. > (2) see no need to make any penalties not match the crimes > involved. This is the modern equivalent of 'Eye for an Eye'. > That's the other side of the coin. If you adhere to the slippery slope notion, then you recognize that if one is mildly punished for stealing a grape, but severely punished for stealing a pig, it's easy to make the transition. If one's killed for either, it makes no difference, since it will only have to be dealt with once. Just ask yourself, "What would it take to make me (meaning YOU) adhere to all the laws all the time?" Adhering to the laws is far from perfection, since the laws aren't perfect. Laws are the minimal conduct needed from every citizen in order to have a liveable society. If you don't care to live in a society with a given set of laws, you should leave. If there's no place on the planet where there are laws that suit you, then you should go elsewhere. The laws define the minimal acceptable behavior within a given society. If you don't want to adhere to those minimae, then you should be ejaculated from the society. Surely there's someplace that will tolerate your behavior, but others, those willing to behave within the legal standards, shouldn't have to tolerate your antisocial and extralegal behavior. If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the system. In the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. Part of effecting change involves work and suffering, the rest is waiting. You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish than you repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them. If you KNEW for certain that someone else would take it upon himself to punish you by some equally illegal act, and any illegal act is equally illegal, you might not behave as you do. > > - - - - - > "Clearly, you can't see the sense of this" > - - - - - > Yup, me too. > > > - - - - - > "You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be > killed > for speeding" > - - - - - > If you're talking about death for speeding and the like, then I believe the > people > would toss law enforcement altogether and start over. > > > John A. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 19:53:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: Message-ID: <002f01c10748$6e878720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> SRAMs were smaller in size, and simpler in architecture, though the elemental memory structures were larger. The fast SRAMs were built for access time, at the cost of power, mostly, aside from the die size. DRAMs were built for capacity (number of bits) and density (pounds of silicon per bit) which translated into cost. Slower SRAMs were built for simplicity of operation, as there was always a market for devices that could be applied without a large hardware overhead. DRAMs were built for the applications that justified a larger overhead since there was a demand for large memory size in a limited power, space and cost budget. SRAMs in small arrays were much cheaper as well as being simpler. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 5:20 PM Subject: Re: 2116 and other old memory chips > > Is that also why static RAM is so much faster? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > This answers most of my questions, thanks. One further question. What > > > is the difference between "static" ram and "dynamic" ram, since both > > > are "volatile" ram? Or, putting it another way, what is "static" about > > > "static" ram, since it changes as well? > > > > OK... > > > > Static RAM is made from flip-flops. Which means that when you write data > > to it, you set some flip flops one way (for '1's) and some the other way > > (for '0's). And the flip-flops remain in that state until either you turn > > the power off or you write some other data to it. > > > > Dynamic RAM is made from capacitors. Generally, a '1' is represented by a > > charge on a capacitor, a '0' is a discharged capacitor. Writing data to > > DRAM involves charging some capacitors and discharging others. > > > > The problem is that all electronics has leakages. So the capacitors > > discharge themselves (in a few milliseconds). So you have to read each > > location periodically and write the data back again to 'refresh' the > > charge on the capacitors. Most (all?) DRAMs have internal circuitry to > > help with this (e.g. accessing a particular location will refresh a > > number of locations -- perhaps all those with the same pattern in the > > high-order half of the address). But you still have to do something -- on > > 'classic' DRAMs, you have to cycle the address inputs and apply RAS/ > > pulses (or at least that's the normal way). If you don't, you lose data. > > > > That's the difference. The contents of static RAM are maintained as long > > as power is applied. Dynamic RAM needs to be refreshed or it will forget. > > > > -tony > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 20:01:31 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how things ought rightly to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, then leave that society and join or build another. The means by which this is done vary widely, and if you think that it's appropriate, for example, that, say, pot smokers, a substantial share of the criminal element in the U.S, have what it takes to (1) go elsewhere and start over, or (2) overthrow, presumably with violence, the existing system, then they should have at it, taking their chances as they go. What's wrong is for them simply to thumb their noses at the law and the society that established those laws, still reaping all the benefits, yet violating the basic social contract. After all, the Americans' distaste for English social standards, whether it was for the British unwarranted taxes or British disdain for the working stiff, was what "impelled them to the separation" in the words of one of the perpetrators. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > >"if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't > >want > > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the > >planet." > > A bit of irony to that statement being made relative to July 4th, the > celebration of our refusal to obey English law. > > > From spc at conman.org Sat Jul 7 20:27:50 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 07, 2001 06:45:40 PM Message-ID: <200107080127.VAA26887@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > If you don't care to live in a society with a > given set of laws, you should leave. If there's no place on the planet where > there are laws that suit you, then you should go elsewhere. Um, Richard ... if there is no place on the planet where there are laws that suit you, where can you go? It's not like there's cheap (or even moderately expensive) flights to say, the moon, or Mars. Fact is, there *IS* no place left on this planet to go in such a case. And US$20,000,000.00 will only get you to orbit. > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the system. In the > meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. Part of > effecting change involves work and suffering, the rest is waiting. Tell that to Rosa Parks. > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish than you > repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them. > If you KNEW for certain that someone else would take it upon himself to punish > you by some equally illegal act, and any illegal act is equally illegal, you > might not behave as you do. ``The more laws a society has, the more corrupt it is.'' An old quote, I forget who said it, but it was said during the Roman Empire I believe (or about the Roman Empire). Do *YOU* know all the laws of the Federal, State and local governments of where you live? I certainly hope so. Idaho state law makes it illegal for a man to give his sweetheart a box of candy weighing less than fifty pounds. In Denver it is unlawful to lend your vacuum cleaner to your next-door neighbor. In Devon, Connecticut, it is unlawful to walk backwards after sunset. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, it is against the law to open a soda bottle without the supervision of a licensed engineer. New Hampshire law forbids you to tap your feet, nod your head, or in any way keep time to the music in a tavern, restaurant, or cafe. Texas law forbids anyone to have a pair of pliers in his possession. The Arkansas legislature passed a law that states that the Arkansas River can rise no higher than to the Main Street bridge in Little Rock. Frankfort, Kentucky, makes it against the law to shoot off a policeman's tie. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Now, to at least get this somewhat back on topic: Should Microsoft be killed for breaking Lotus under MS-DOS 2.0? -spc (Even Bill Gates has been arrested, don't 'cha know?) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 20:31:53 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> I thought that if I put a VCB-02 into my VAX that DEC$WINDOWS would automatically start up when it booted (when it recognized the console was a frame buffer). Unfortunately that is not the case. What is the secret here? Does anyone reading need a VCB-02 ? (less cab kit and cables?) --Chuck (who is working his way through his Q-bus board stash) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 20:40:44 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Decserver 700 question Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707183930.00ab0e40@209.185.79.193> Does anyone know how to telnet to the DEC server 700 and then connect through it to one of the serial ports? I can connect to it with the default password, then I get the Local> prompt and can't figure out how to connect me to port7 which is currently hooked to the console of a VAX... --Chuck From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 7 20:36:23 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! (y) References: Message-ID: <002701c1074e$65e78600$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Man, you sure aint got neighbors like my neighbors. John A. Zane said: I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: From ecloud at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 20:38:25 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:01:31PM -0600 References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707183825.F1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> And those folks were darn lucky that there was a big bunch of land available which hadn't been claimed by modern governments yet. Now these conditions largely don't exist anymore. The settling of the New World could only be done once; thank goodness it turned out as well as it did (for everyone but the natives, at least...) I think a lot of people forget this when they compare things in the US to things in other countries, or things now to things then. It was a unique time and place, and there was a huge advantage to being a young, fresh, new society with so much unclaimed land. Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:01:31PM -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how things ought rightly > to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, then leave that > society and join or build another. The means by which this is done vary widely, > and if you think that it's appropriate, for example, that, say, pot smokers, a > substantial share of the criminal element in the U.S, have what it takes to (1) > go elsewhere and start over, or (2) overthrow, presumably with violence, the > existing system, then they should have at it, taking their chances as they go. > What's wrong is for them simply to thumb their noses at the law and the society > that established those laws, still reaping all the benefits, yet violating the > basic social contract. > > After all, the Americans' distaste for English social standards, whether it was > for the British unwarranted taxes or British disdain for the working stiff, was > what "impelled them to the separation" in the words of one of the perpetrators. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 7 21:12:09 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1108.589T450T1923915optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>plenty of compact mac users want them so they don't have to open up their >>macs to install one of the ethernet cards. > At least with the Color Classic you don't have to open up the >case itself...just the small access cover on the rear that allows the >mainboard to be pulled out enough to insert a PDS card in t he loan >PDS slot. I dread the thought of opening the case of one of the >earlier ones, such as the Plus, though most people likely wouldn't >for anything other than a RAM upgrade. Apart from the apparent danger of electrocution and shattered CRTs, opening up compact Macs isn't too bad. You don't even need any particular tools, contrary to popular belief. Just a nice flat screwdriver, preferably a long one, perhaps with the additional aid of a pinch... clamp... argh, what's the English word for such a tool? The one for pinching and clamping? =) These are the worst case Macs, and they still aren't any worse than your bog- standard PC, assuming you've got the right screwdriver. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jul 7 20:55:19 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, and have a license for it. Clint On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I thought that if I put a VCB-02 into my VAX that DEC$WINDOWS would > automatically start up when it booted (when it recognized the console was a > frame buffer). Unfortunately that is not the case. What is the secret here? > Does anyone reading need a VCB-02 ? (less cab kit and cables?) > > --Chuck > (who is working his way through his Q-bus board stash) > > > From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 7 20:59:18 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <004101c10751$994eaca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> - - - - - "in the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. " - - - - - Smells pretty musty. But seriously, should, not must, is what the citizenry of the US seems to live by, and parking tickets and other small fines are the cost of... Expressing ones free opinions in this way. - - - - - "others, ...repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them." - - - - - Just the price of being an adult, I believe. - - - - - "...any illegal act is equally illegal, ..." - - - - - You might not be be getting anywhere with this. IE What??? John A. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 21:18:19 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> At 07:55 PM 7/7/01 -0600, Clint wrote: >You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, >and have a license for it. Hmmm, well I did tell it to install DECWindows when it installed VMS, I didn't see an option for VWS. Of course at the time the VCB-02 wasn't installed so maybe it would have tailored it off the distribution. Hmmm, --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 21:22:17 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! (y) In-Reply-To: <002701c1074e$65e78600$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: >Zane said: >>I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which >>aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: > >Man, you sure aint got neighbors like my neighbors. > >John A. Well, I'll admit we were friends before we were neighbors. Look at it this way, how many Apartment complexes have two OpenVMS clusters! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 21:23:50 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: >At 07:55 PM 7/7/01 -0600, Clint wrote: >>You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, >>and have a license for it. > >Hmmm, well I did tell it to install DECWindows when it installed VMS, I >didn't see an option for VWS. Of course at the time the VCB-02 wasn't >installed so maybe it would have tailored it off the distribution. Hmmm, >--Chuck What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 21:34:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 07, 2001 07:18:19 PM Message-ID: <200107080234.f682Y2503787@narnia.int.dittman.net> > At 07:55 PM 7/7/01 -0600, Clint wrote: > >You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, > >and have a license for it. > > Hmmm, well I did tell it to install DECWindows when it installed VMS, I > didn't see an option for VWS. Of course at the time the VCB-02 wasn't > installed so maybe it would have tailored it off the distribution. Hmmm, You don't need to install VWS to use DECwindows, but depending on the version you have to install DECwindows Motif. The DECwindows files installed on the later version are just the OS support files. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 21:39:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Decserver 700 question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707183930.00ab0e40@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 07, 2001 06:40:44 PM Message-ID: <200107080239.f682d1q03845@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Does anyone know how to telnet to the DEC server 700 and then connect > through it to one of the serial ports? I can connect to it with the default > password, then I get the Local> prompt and can't figure out how to connect > me to port7 which is currently hooked to the console of a VAX... You need to set up the TELNET LISTENER on the port, then you can just telnet DECSERVERIP 2000+port to get directly to the port. In your case, the telnet port number would be 2007. Here are the commands: CHANGE TELNET LISTENER 2007 PORT 7 ENABLED CHANGE TELNET LISTENER 2007 CONNECTIONS ENABLED CHANGE PORT 7 ACCESS DYNAMIC (or REMOTE) After that, just telnet DECSERVERIP 2007 and you are connected to the console. Use ^] to escape back to the telnet> prompt so you can disconnect. I do this with a DECserver 90M and DECserver 700. The manual for the DECserver 700 is on www.dnpg.com. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 21:40:27 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 07, 2001 05:00:49 PM Message-ID: <200107080240.f682eRJ03860@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which > aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: > > AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 > MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 > COPYRIGHT 1986 > DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION > > What is it? My guess would be the VMS Windowing System for MicroVMS. My other guess is you've got a good neighbor. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 21:47:22 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707194623.02595eb0@209.185.79.193> At 07:23 PM 7/7/01 -0700, Zane wrote: >What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to >running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. Well a 7.2 hobbyist release. I've restarted an install with the VCB-02 installed, should be interesting to see how it works... --Chuck From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 21:43:54 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 07, 2001 07:23:50 PM Message-ID: <200107080243.f682hs403879@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >At 07:55 PM 7/7/01 -0600, Clint wrote: > >>You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, > >>and have a license for it. > > > >Hmmm, well I did tell it to install DECWindows when it installed VMS, I > >didn't see an option for VWS. Of course at the time the VCB-02 wasn't > >installed so maybe it would have tailored it off the distribution. Hmmm, > >--Chuck > > What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to > running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. I've run a MicroVAX II with both a VCB01 and VCB02 (not at the same time, but I think that actually was supported; the VCB01 is no longer supported in current versions of VMS). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 21:56:54 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707194623.02595eb0@209.185.79.193> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: >At 07:23 PM 7/7/01 -0700, Zane wrote: >>What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to >>running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. > >Well a 7.2 hobbyist release. I've restarted an install with the VCB-02 >installed, should be interesting to see how it works... > >--Chuck OK, as Eric pointed out what you're going to need is DECwindows and Motif. VWS was discontinued with V6, IIRC. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 22:00:59 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707194623.02595eb0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 07, 2001 07:47:22 PM Message-ID: <200107080300.f6830xV03996@narnia.int.dittman.net> > At 07:23 PM 7/7/01 -0700, Zane wrote: > >What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to > >running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. > > Well a 7.2 hobbyist release. I've restarted an install with the VCB-02 > installed, should be interesting to see how it works... With V7.2 you'll need to install DECwindows Motif (DWMOTIF_*). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sat Jul 7 22:26:00 2001 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: <1108.589T450T1923915optimus@canit.se> References: <1108.589T450T1923915optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >You don't even need any particular tools, contrary >to popular belief. Just a nice flat screwdriver, preferably a long one, Actually, you do need a nice long Torx-15. Gotta be skinny to get the screws underneath the handle on top. You don't really need one of these cracker deals, I've never had a problem gently pulling back and forth on the case to get it loose, although something to pry with that won't mar the case is always handy and gets things going a little faster. Glad I have an EN-SC, though. Don't have the network setup yet, but I've got everything I need except the Cat5 cable. I think the Mac drivers are still online. Hope I still have mine around... -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 22:38:55 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how things ought rightly > to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, then leave that > society and join or build another. There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. I have assumed the risk. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 22:54:16 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips Message-ID: In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 card. The ones in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 pin (10 pins each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with them - and if so how much? Please email direct. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/af4cd9f2/attachment.html From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 7 23:03:01 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: <200107080240.f682eRJ03860@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which > > aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: > > > > AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 > > MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 > > COPYRIGHT 1986 > > DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION > > > > What is it? > > My guess would be the VMS Windowing System for MicroVMS. Shucks! I was hoping for a port of Wordstar v3.0 to VMS :) - don > My other guess is you've got a good neighbor. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 23:05:09 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have since found that these are 256k x 4 dram and any suitable substitute will do. They'll be going into a Dell 4066/XE server. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:54 PM To: Classic computers message group Subject: Need DRAM chips In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 card. The ones in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 pin (10 pins each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with them - and if so how much? Please email direct. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/c7a31222/attachment.html From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 7 19:16:11 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708041211.HKHY216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: "Classic computers message group" > Subject: Need DRAM chips > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 card. The ones > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 pin (10 pins > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with them - and if > so how much? > Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad different in specs. Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 23:14:33 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be >prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, >but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. >I have assumed the risk. That's called person responsibility, and with the way lawyers have made everyone believe that they are the victim, it's a rare thing to see. I do the same thing though...if I'm doing something like speeding it's because I conciously decided to and if I'm stopped for it, I'll pay the price for doing so. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Jul 7 23:14:55 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: OT: Old radio gear available...cheap? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The descriptions are terse so if you have any questions about any of the > gear, let me know and I'll try to get answers for you. I don't think she > will be able to answer any heavily technical questions. > > Here is what's available: > > Navy ships transmitter/receiver put in service in 1944 made by Stromberg > in England > Navy amplifier same era > WWII Tank Receiver/transmitter made by Weston > Navy Signal corp freq meter with last calibration manual > 8' Altec cabinet with tube type modules The best bet is to have her get the information off the datatags. In the realm of military electronics collectibles, this means *everything*. The Navy stuff will generally have a rather verbose tags, and the Signal Corps (Army) tags will have less. I have many directories and could look up the stuff. Incidently, if the Altec stuff is tubed, it is probably worth a fairly good amount of money. The "tube type modules" may be input transformers, and if they are good, they are _definitely_ not junk. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 23:22:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <200107080127.VAA26887@conman.org> Message-ID: <000b01c10765$8ffb7fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What you say is true, and I'm glad I don't have to reckon with it! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > > > If you don't care to live in a society with a > > given set of laws, you should leave. If there's no place on the planet where > > there are laws that suit you, then you should go elsewhere. > > Um, Richard ... if there is no place on the planet where there are laws > that suit you, where can you go? It's not like there's cheap (or even > moderately expensive) flights to say, the moon, or Mars. Fact is, there > *IS* no place left on this planet to go in such a case. > > And US$20,000,000.00 will only get you to orbit. > > > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the system. In the > > meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. Part of > > effecting change involves work and suffering, the rest is waiting. > > Tell that to Rosa Parks. > > > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish than you > > repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them. > > If you KNEW for certain that someone else would take it upon himself to punish > > you by some equally illegal act, and any illegal act is equally illegal, you > > might not behave as you do. > > ``The more laws a society has, the more corrupt it is.'' An old quote, I > forget who said it, but it was said during the Roman Empire I believe (or > about the Roman Empire). Do *YOU* know all the laws of the Federal, State > and local governments of where you live? I certainly hope so. > > Idaho state law makes it illegal for a man to give his sweetheart a > box of candy weighing less than fifty pounds. > > In Denver it is unlawful to lend your vacuum cleaner to your > next-door neighbor. > > In Devon, Connecticut, it is unlawful to walk backwards after > sunset. > > In Tulsa, Oklahoma, it is against the law to open a soda bottle > without the supervision of a licensed engineer. > > New Hampshire law forbids you to tap your feet, nod your head, or in > any way keep time to the music in a tavern, restaurant, or cafe. > > Texas law forbids anyone to have a pair of pliers in his possession. > > The Arkansas legislature passed a law that states that the Arkansas > River can rise no higher than to the Main Street bridge in Little > Rock. > > Frankfort, Kentucky, makes it against the law to shoot off a > policeman's tie. > > The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. > > Now, to at least get this somewhat back on topic: Should Microsoft be > killed for breaking Lotus under MS-DOS 2.0? > > -spc (Even Bill Gates has been arrested, don't 'cha know?) > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 23:26:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20010707183825.F1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <001301c10766$2124c100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, yes, they were quite lucky. In the meantime, the first thing that has to go is any tolerance of unwillingness to make the necessary choices. There are places one could go. It's just that this particular society has made things so easy for people simply to ingore, and even thumb their noses at the laws, social contract, and associated rights of others, that they're too coddled to go where they wouldn't offend anyone by their behavior. That's why I suggest more radical ways of dealing with them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > And those folks were darn lucky that there was a big bunch of land available > which hadn't been claimed by modern governments yet. Now these conditions > largely don't exist anymore. The settling of the New World could only be > done once; thank goodness it turned out as well as it did (for everyone but > the natives, at least...) I think a lot of people forget this when they > compare things in the US to things in other countries, or things now to > things then. It was a unique time and place, and there was a huge > advantage to being a young, fresh, new society with so much unclaimed land. > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any future > revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems of revolutions > in older established countries, say, France or Russia; that of trying to > cast off the old ways and being unable to really completely start over, > because the past is always there to haunt you. > > On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:01:31PM -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how things ought rightly > > to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, then leave that > > society and join or build another. The means by which this is done vary widely, > > and if you think that it's appropriate, for example, that, say, pot smokers, a > > substantial share of the criminal element in the U.S, have what it takes to (1) > > go elsewhere and start over, or (2) overthrow, presumably with violence, the > > existing system, then they should have at it, taking their chances as they go. > > What's wrong is for them simply to thumb their noses at the law and the society > > that established those laws, still reaping all the benefits, yet violating the > > basic social contract. > > > > After all, the Americans' distaste for English social standards, whether it was > > for the British unwarranted taxes or British disdain for the working stiff, was > > what "impelled them to the separation" in the words of one of the perpetrators. > > -- > _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com > (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org > __) | | \________________________________________________________________ > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 23:39:00 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: <20010708041211.HKHY216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: The chips on the mainboard are probably different in that they are a smaller profile but here's what they have on them: .. KOREA ... 326Y ... KM44C256J-6 .. There are 4 of them soldered to the board, and they give the S3 section 512K RAM with 256 color capability. The soldered chips are 20 pin but each side has two sets of 5 pins with a space between them unlike the bare sockets that are a symmetrical 10 on each side and longer than the soldered on ones. 4 chips are supposed to brig it to 1mb and allow more color and (I hope) higher resolution without a color loss). It's a 1993 486DX2-66 server so that might give you an idea. I know it's not quite a classic (10 yr old) yet but it's close enough and I know the people here know more than most in the chip level stuff. I have no idea what the symbol made up of dots is, I've been out of the component level field too long and my "memory banks" are toast right now after a couple beers (been landscaping in the hot sun all day and it's time to relax) -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca -> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:16 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips -> -> -> > From: "Russ Blakeman" -> > To: "Classic computers message group" -> -> > Subject: Need DRAM chips -> > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 -> > Importance: Normal -> > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> -> > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 -> card. The ones -> > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 -> pin (10 pins -> > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with -> them - and if -> > so how much? -> > -> -> Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? -> There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad -> different in specs. -> -> Cheers, -> -> Wizard From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 23:53:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004101c10751$994eaca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001b01c10769$ef770600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Unfortunately, the slippery slope has led to where it is not "should" but "SHALL," is more like it, with a not so swift and horribly painful end imposed immediately on accusation, with an apology for any inadvertent error, provided posthumously, of course. The "should" came from a time when we didn't have to live so close together that one guy firing his gun in his living room could affect anyone else, and, even then, folks were routinely hung when suspected of one foul deed or another. Today we have far too many people, and far too few of them willing to live up to their own expectations of others. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > - - - - - > "in the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. " > - - - - - > Smells pretty musty. > But seriously, should, not must, is what the citizenry of the US seems > to live by, and parking tickets and other small fines are the cost of... > Expressing ones free opinions in this way. > So, you feel that YOU have the right to disobey laws as YOU see fit? Surely you don't extend that privilege to just anyone? You find it inconvenient to leave the handicap-designated parking space available for someone fitting in the intended category, hence you disregard the associated statute, right? Well, by the same right, shouldn't I be casually forgiven for putting a couple of rounds into your right ear, right? All I've really done in that case is discharge a firearm into a public nuissance, right? > > - - - - - > "others, ...repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal > behavior irritates them." > - - - - - > Just the price of being an adult, I believe. > Then why do you expect them to pay it when you routinely refuse? Aren't you an adult? > > - - - - - > "...any illegal act is equally illegal, ..." > - - - - - > You might not be be getting anywhere with this. IE What??? > I don't need to get anywhere. I obey the laws, but I don't tolerate those who don't. There are ways ... > > John A. > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 23:56:46 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: References: <200107080240.f682eRJ03860@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > >> > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which >> > aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: >> > >> > AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 >> > MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 >> > COPYRIGHT 1986 >> > DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION >> > >> > What is it? >> >> My guess would be the VMS Windowing System for MicroVMS. > >Shucks! I was hoping for a port of Wordstar v3.0 to VMS :) Hadn't really considered either of those, I was hopeing for something more like MicroVMS/WorkStation, but that didn't really make sense (as far as I know MicroVMS started with V4.x). Somehow I suspect VMS Windowing System is it. As for the WordStar, I don't think that ever made it to VMS, though WordPerfect did. The closest the pile of tapes came was DECwrite, and VAX Document. Somehow I've found TeX to be the best solution on VMS, it's nice and portable, and you can work on it from a VT100 if you want. >> My other guess is you've got a good neighbor. Yep, over the years I've gotten some cool stuff from him. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 00:04:39 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002501c1076b$7e260300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, one should pay the penalty, but I'm advocating that the penalty for violating the law, any law, should be the same, since it is the casual disregard of the law that's bringing about the current wave of disorder, not the nature of the ways in which the law is broken. The purpose of the penalty should be, and, in some cases, is, (1) to ensure that others are deterred from committing the same offense, and (2) to ensure that the perpetrator never, under any circumstances commits that offense again. Only one penalty can accomplish that, and that's what I'm advocating. more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how > things ought rightly > > to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, > then leave that > > society and join or build another. > > There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be > prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, > but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. > I have assumed the risk. > Actually, there should probably be two penalties, both the same, really, but one, immediate immersion in molten iron, which is relatively swift and painless, and the other, the same process, but carefully executed at about one inch per minute, feet first, during halftime at the SuperBowl, for those who intentionally thumb their noses at the law and do what they know they shouldn't in spite of the law, so that their expression of remorse can be an example to others. > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:07:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: OT: Re: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > No complaints about stupid shit, but about stupid shits like you, > Sellam Ismail. All I've said in this thread is that people should obey > the law. If they don't like it, they can endeavor, within the law, to > change it to something they like, but if they disobey the law, that's > prima fasciae evidence that they don't want to be part of the society, > hence, that they need to be removed from the planet. Making it hurt a > little is to keep people from thinking it's a cheap way to commit > suicide. This boils down to you being a fucking facist and obnoxious prick about silly little shit. It would be one thing if you were joking about putting people to death for spitting on a sidewalk or cursing in public or itching their ass in plain view of a woman or whatever, but I really think you are fucked up enough to be serious. Your idea of justice and morality, I assure you, is not shared by many other people, at least not people with any sort of sense. If you think it would be appropriate to dole out harsh sentences for meaningless actions such as spitting on a sidewalk, or maybe getting or giving a blowjob (which is technically illegal in a few states), then you are one seriously fucked up individual and you need to move to some country that is more compatible with your point of view, like Afghanistan or Iran. Go someplace where your silly-assed views won't run up against any opposition. You'll be much happier, and won't have to criticize assholes like me for being so damn liberal. > You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be > killed for speeding, even if you only did it once, you wouldn't speed. > You know you'd be killed for stepping off a cliff, and you don't do > that. The fact remains that if laws were different, people would > behave differently. Thank god people like you will be dead soon. > BTW ... ask an adult what a FOO is, as in "Hey, FOO..." I hope it means "big brown smelly turd", because that's what I want to be to you. The big brown smelly turd that will annoy and insult you until the day you finally succumb to some terrible disease. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:11:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >"if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't > >want > > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the > >planet." > > A bit of irony to that statement being made relative to July 4th, the > celebration of our refusal to obey English law. We're talking, after all, about a guy named "Dick", who obviously doesn't understand the ferociously offensive implications of what he is advocating, let alone the irony. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ecloud at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 8 00:13:27 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001b01c10769$ef770600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 10:53:30PM -0600 References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004101c10751$994eaca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <001b01c10769$ef770600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707221327.H1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 10:53:30PM -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The "should" came from a time when we didn't have to live so close together that > one guy firing his gun in his living room could affect anyone else, and, even > then, folks were routinely hung when suspected of one foul deed or another. Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what are we going to do about it? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:21:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > laws aren't perfect. Laws are the minimal conduct needed from every > citizen in order to have a liveable society. If you don't care to > live in a society with a given set of laws, you should leave. If Then fucking GO already, since you obviously don't like the existing laws here in the US!!! > behavior within a given society. If you don't want to adhere to those > minimae, then you should be ejaculated from the society. Surely So we would get to go out in a stream of semen with a smile on our face? > there's someplace that will tolerate your behavior, but others, those > willing to behave within the legal standards, shouldn't have to > tolerate your antisocial and extralegal behavior. I get it, this is some kind of joke, right? "Dick" is really just a bot that spews forth obnoxious and inflammatory rhetoric just so the list will always go wildly off-topic. Ok, who subscribed him? > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the > system. In the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law > abiding citizen. Part of effecting change involves work and > suffering, the rest is waiting. Yeah, I'll go about my merry way while you try to get the law changed so that the next time I use a naughty word in an e-mail message I'll be put to death. > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish > than you repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal > behavior irritates them. If you KNEW for certain that someone else > would take it upon himself to punish you by some equally illegal act, > and any illegal act is equally illegal, you might not behave as you > do. Ok, I waited to get sober before commenting on this part, but it still doesn't make any sense. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Jul 8 00:29:40 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) Message-ID: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all Some of you probably have seen some of my posts. I have given away a lot of computer stuff vintage and semi-vintage and traded a lot. I have trashed a lot lately. I recent years, I have accumulated way too much computer stuff (mostly vintage and semi-vintage) in my basement...I can only trade so much and trades arent really helping with the "space issue"... I dont wanna junk it and can see most of it can be used...I have paid some money for most of this... I have always "boycotted" ebay as both a seller and a buyer...now online auctions look like the only way to unload quickly the tons of stuff I have... Ill have to pack and ship but I was ready to give it a shot....rather then junk tons of working computers...and related equip... I have now gotten "cold feet" from signing up as a seller on US ebay (with good reason!) since now they ask for both credit card and complete checking bank account info!!! (how bout my fingerprints and social security no...?) Thats way too much info too have "floating around on the net" for me...even just giving my credit card is "unconfortable" for me... I can only imagine the ebay seller sign-ups going way down now...I know there is a lotta fraud on ebay but this is not a good idea for ebay IMO... I have also heard horror stories like paypal fetching funds from sellers bank accounts when stuff was undelivered or problems happened...gee... I could sign up for ebay canada, they only ask for credit card info (weird hey?) but would not be able to have the stuff listed on the US ebay....I have to open up a new account and given the bank account info to be on US ebay.... So anybody with any good alternatives to ebay? Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:27:10 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > example, that, say, pot smokers, a substantial share of the criminal > element in the U.S, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 00:29:02 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 07, 2001 09:56:46 PM Message-ID: <200107080529.f685T2D04554@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which > >> > aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: > >> > > >> > AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 > >> > MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 > >> > COPYRIGHT 1986 > >> > DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION > >> > > >> > What is it? > >> > >> My guess would be the VMS Windowing System for MicroVMS. > > > >Shucks! I was hoping for a port of Wordstar v3.0 to VMS :) > > Hadn't really considered either of those, I was hopeing for something more > like MicroVMS/WorkStation, but that didn't really make sense (as far as I > know MicroVMS started with V4.x). Somehow I suspect VMS Windowing System > is it. > > As for the WordStar, I don't think that ever made it to VMS, though > WordPerfect did. The closest the pile of tapes came was DECwrite, and VAX > Document. Somehow I've found TeX to be the best solution on VMS, it's nice > and portable, and you can work on it from a VT100 if you want. I've got WordPerfect for VMS somewhere, along with AutoCAD. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:39:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Claude.W wrote: > So anybody with any good alternatives to ebay? I am actually working on a classified ad system on the VCF website for buying/selling/trading vintage computer stuff that will be free to use. I'm about halfway through the code (got the account registration and most of the code to create a listing working, just need to add a search and some account management features for the first release) and will be doing some beta testing before the system is opened up to the public. If I find some time over the next couple weeks I may have it ready to roll by the end of this month. If you want to wait a few more weeks then you'll have a very nice alternative to eBay for selling your excess stuff. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:44:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: <20010707183825.F1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did take 200 years for it to happen). Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 00:53:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips References: <20010708041211.HKHY216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <000901c10772$60ff6120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What's probably more important is the package. They come in various shapes and sizes. the 44C256 was once pretty popular. I bet half the old SVGA boards I handled today had those on them. Of course the other half didn't ... Some were in SO packages, though, while others might have been DIP's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 6:16 PM Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips > > From: "Russ Blakeman" > > To: "Classic computers message group" > > Subject: Need DRAM chips > > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 > > Importance: Normal > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 card. The ones > > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 pin (10 pins > > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with them - and if > > so how much? > > > > Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? > There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad > different in specs. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 01:01:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000f01c10773$6c4e7880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The trick is to assign a penalty so severe that all people, no matter how many trillions they have, will not want to pay it, and that, having paid the penalty, they will absolutely not make the choice to do that again. I can only think of one such penalty, though there are many ways of administering it. For example, if the fine for speeding were 100% of all your personal holdings, irresprctive of how much that might be, including clothing and other personal belongings, and 95% of all you earn or otherwise acquire for the next 30 years, assuming you can survive that long on only 5% of what you acquire, you might not choose to speed, particularly since it would require you to watch your children starve, if they hadn't already. It would be costly and diffucult to exact that penalty, while a quick bullet between the eyes would be easy and simple. If a mistake were made, well, a posthumous apology would have to suffice. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:14 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > >There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be > >prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, > >but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. > >I have assumed the risk. > > That's called person responsibility, and with the way lawyers > have made everyone believe that they are the victim, it's a rare > thing to see. I do the same thing though...if I'm doing something > like speeding it's because I conciously decided to and if I'm stopped > for it, I'll pay the price for doing so. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 01:20:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010708062012.96043.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors... > > I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet adapters, > > complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box only, $5. > > Whoa! and where?! Columbus, OH. > I think I missed the original message. Been looking for > a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! I will be keeping the one-and-only complete one, but I might consider letting a box-only one go. It has a pair of DB-25s for SCSI, so you'd need a 25-pin male-to-male cable for SCSI, and a 800mA 12VDC wall wart. Dunno if that's too much to attempt to pull from the SE/30 PSU, or if you'd even want to try. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 01:29:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001701c10777$4f1eb640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Hi, Foo! Fascism is a socioeconomic system, characterized by close ties between government and industry, not a legal structure. (Learn to read and you'll find such things out! Learning the language well enough to leave out the irrelevant and not particularly useful expletives wouldn't be a bad thing either.) It's not about spitting or scratching, but about putting yourself above the rest of society. Back when it was 25 miles to the nearest neighbor, it didn't matter whether you fired your gun or set off a stick of dynamite. Now that folks are forced by circumstances to live near enough to others that they can't totally avoid your wierd beaviors, it's appropriate that you be forced, like everyone else, to adhere to the social contract. Because you insist on being a problem child, part of that is a penalty. That penalty must ensure that you will under no circumstances cause annoyance to anyone else ever again, and it should serve as an example to others who might consider such transgressions. In the process, perhaps it will move society back to a population level at which you and others of your persuasion won't be such an annoyance to others. see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:07 PM Subject: OT: Re: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > No complaints about stupid shit, but about stupid shits like you, > > Sellam Ismail. All I've said in this thread is that people should obey > > the law. If they don't like it, they can endeavor, within the law, to > > change it to something they like, but if they disobey the law, that's > > prima fasciae evidence that they don't want to be part of the society, > > hence, that they need to be removed from the planet. Making it hurt a > > little is to keep people from thinking it's a cheap way to commit > > suicide. > > This boils down to you being a fucking facist and obnoxious prick about > silly little shit. It would be one thing if you were joking about putting > people to death for spitting on a sidewalk or cursing in public or itching > their ass in plain view of a woman or whatever, but I really think you are > fucked up enough to be serious. > > Your idea of justice and morality, I assure you, is not shared by many > other people, at least not people with any sort of sense. If you think it > would be appropriate to dole out harsh sentences for meaningless actions > such as spitting on a sidewalk, or maybe getting or giving a blowjob It's probably not illegal where you live. That's how this is supposed to work, right? > (which is technically illegal in a few states), then you are one seriously > fucked up individual and you need to move to some country that is more > compatible with your point of view, like Afghanistan or Iran. Go > someplace where your silly-assed views won't run up against any > opposition. You'll be much happier, and won't have to criticize assholes > like me for being so damn liberal. > It doesn't bother me that you're liberal. It doesn't even bother me that you're an asshole, as those are choices it's your right to make. What bothers me is that you seem to think you have rights that you wouldn't allow others to exercise. If you can smoke dope if you want, then I can shoot you if I want, right? What? You dont' like that? Well, who gets to select the laws that we get to break? You? I think not! I can live within the legalism we have. I may not like it, but I can do it. If you'd grow up, you could do it too. You just don't want to do that, since it involves inhibiting your urges. For most people, that's learned at between about age 20-30 months. > > > You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be > > killed for speeding, even if you only did it once, you wouldn't speed. > > You know you'd be killed for stepping off a cliff, and you don't do > > that. The fact remains that if laws were different, people would > > behave differently. > > Thank god people like you will be dead soon. Yeah ... and you, too ... and in English, it's customary to capitalize specific references to the deity, though nonspecific references or plural references need not be capitalized. (Errors in grammar, syntax, and orthography need not be met with capital punishment ... cleaning the blackboards for a week will suffice.) > > > BTW ... ask an adult what a FOO is, as in "Hey, FOO..." > > I hope it means "big brown smelly turd", because that's what I want to be > to you. The big brown smelly turd that will annoy and insult you until > the day you finally succumb to some terrible disease. Since I'm not as into blowjobs as you are, it's unlikely. Moreover, since you're far enough away, I won't be able to appreciate your odor ... a fact I don't particularly regret. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 01:31:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <002601c10777$a3207300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. I simply expect others to do that too. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > laws aren't perfect. Laws are the minimal conduct needed from every > > citizen in order to have a liveable society. If you don't care to > > live in a society with a given set of laws, you should leave. If > > Then fucking GO already, since you obviously don't like the existing laws > here in the US!!! > > > behavior within a given society. If you don't want to adhere to those > > minimae, then you should be ejaculated from the society. Surely > > So we would get to go out in a stream of semen with a smile on our face? > > > there's someplace that will tolerate your behavior, but others, those > > willing to behave within the legal standards, shouldn't have to > > tolerate your antisocial and extralegal behavior. > > I get it, this is some kind of joke, right? "Dick" is really just a bot > that spews forth obnoxious and inflammatory rhetoric just so the list will > always go wildly off-topic. Ok, who subscribed him? > > > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the > > system. In the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law > > abiding citizen. Part of effecting change involves work and > > suffering, the rest is waiting. > > Yeah, I'll go about my merry way while you try to get the law changed so > that the next time I use a naughty word in an e-mail message I'll be put > to death. > > > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish > > than you repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal > > behavior irritates them. If you KNEW for certain that someone else > > would take it upon himself to punish you by some equally illegal act, > > and any illegal act is equally illegal, you might not behave as you > > do. > > Ok, I waited to get sober before commenting on this part, but it still > doesn't make any sense. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 01:37:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708063702.96470.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > > asking $300. > > Well, since he's trying to go out of business, does he really want to go > through the trouble of having to list this thing on eBay to get the $300 > that he wants? He seems pretty pig-headed. Some of his (other) prices are absurd. > If not then he should sell it to you for a far more reasonable $50. > Without a keyboard or mouse (don't tell him a Mac mouse will work :) Of course not. :-) > he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. You underestimate the amount of stupid people who bid there, but with the decline in the value of stock options, people aren't buying as many overpriced vintage computers as they used to, I'd wager; at least not for as much as they used to. Still, I do agree. Working Lisa/MacXLs are going for $400-$500 or so. > He won't get substantially more than $50, and the trouble he would have to > go through to get the money, pack it and ship it will make it not worth > the effort. > > Try to diplomatically bring this to his attention and maybe he'll see it > your way :) I was going to go by tomorrow on the last day of the sale and a) see if it's still there, and b) offer him the $50 and see if he takes it. If he won't budge, I'm not going to give him what he asks. I've been through business liquidations on both ends. I negotiated the entire quantity of Commodore stuff out of our local dealer when he closed. A friend of mine and I split the cost and the haul. He only wanted three or four pricey and valuable things (Ethernet card, large monitor, stuff like that). I got, for not much more than this bozo wants for part of a Lisa, two station-wagon loads of C= service center parts, including a 19" Viking monitor with the special Amiga card, a couple of stripped A2000s (back when they were worth a few hundred bucks), two parts drawers full of PET through Amiga chips, three linear feet of C= service manuals, promotional video tapes, the works. *That* was a going-out-of-business sale! This guy is still too attached to the stuff to recognize that he needs to take what he can get and move on. I plan to raid the dumpster next week for the stuff he couldn't sell. :-) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 01:39:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708063924.44816.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > >Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for > >a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! > > They aren't rare, I am sure you had one in your hand last time you were > here. Asante EN SC, but I wouldn't use one for a SE/30 unless there was a > good reason why I couldn't use an internal card. And in case you didn't know, you can steal one from a MacIIsi - same PDS slot and bracket. I got one from Ohio State Surplus to fix up my one-and- only Mac SE/30 and free up my PowerBook ADB-powered SCSI-Enet pod for my new (to me) color PowerBook. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jul 8 01:39:54 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > take 200 years for it to happen). Tammany Hall? Teapot Dome? President Grant? People are people; people are corrupt. -- From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 01:41:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips References: Message-ID: <003801c10778$fd559980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You may have an easy time finding these for next to no cost at all if you find some 3-chip 256K-byte 30-pin SIMMs. You can remove two chips of this type from each of them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:39 PM Subject: RE: Need DRAM chips > The chips on the mainboard are probably different in that they are a smaller > profile but here's what they have on them: > > .. KOREA > ... 326Y > ... KM44C256J-6 > .. > > There are 4 of them soldered to the board, and they give the S3 section 512K > RAM with 256 color capability. The soldered chips are 20 pin but each side > has two sets of 5 pins with a space between them unlike the bare sockets > that are a symmetrical 10 on each side and longer than the soldered on ones. > 4 chips are supposed to brig it to 1mb and allow more color and (I hope) > higher resolution without a color loss). It's a 1993 486DX2-66 server so > that might give you an idea. I know it's not quite a classic (10 yr old) yet > but it's close enough and I know the people here know more than most in the > chip level stuff. > > I have no idea what the symbol made up of dots is, I've been out of the > component level field too long and my "memory banks" are toast right now > after a couple beers (been landscaping in the hot sun all day and it's time > to relax) > > > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > -> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:16 PM > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips > -> > -> > -> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > -> > To: "Classic computers message group" > -> > -> > Subject: Need DRAM chips > -> > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 > -> > Importance: Normal > -> > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> > -> > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 > -> card. The ones > -> > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 > -> pin (10 pins > -> > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with > -> them - and if > -> > so how much? > -> > > -> > -> Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? > -> There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad > -> different in specs. > -> > -> Cheers, > -> > -> Wizard > > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jul 8 01:41:43 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Decserver 700 question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707183930.00ab0e40@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: You need to set up a telnet listener. I have a document somewhere on how to do this on 300 series, it should be similar on 700. I will try to locate it. On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Does anyone know how to telnet to the DEC server 700 and then connect > through it to one of the serial ports? I can connect to it with the default > password, then I get the Local> prompt and can't figure out how to connect > me to port7 which is currently hooked to the console of a VAX... > > --Chuck > -- From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 01:47:15 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708064715.77706.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > >> > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor... Sweet. > (as far as I know MicroVMS started with V4.x). It did. It was MicroVMS 4.x, but VMS 5.x for the MicroVAX. MicroVMS wasn't as big so it could fit on an RD51 (originally). I don't think you can stick VMS 5.x on anything smaller than an RD53, *maybe* an RD-32 (ST-251-1 @ 42Mb). > As for the WordStar, I don't think that ever made it to VMS, though > WordPerfect did. I was working for a guy in 1988 that sold a box of WordPerfect for VMS to one of our customers that with all the seat licenses, etc., was $500,000 retail. Major score for a tiny company. I think we got 15% of the take. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ernestls at home.com Sun Jul 8 01:59:32 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10773$6c4e7880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: ...and what does this have to do with vintage computers? Why don't you take your useless punk-ass ideas over to the alt.simpleminded newsgroup where it belongs. Besides, I don't even believe that you agree with what you're saying here because no one could be that stupid. I think that you just want to get a rise out of the folks in this group, which you've achieved, so why not stuff a cork in your pie hole and STFU. Ernest > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 11:01 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > The trick is to assign a penalty so severe that all people, no > matter how many > trillions they have, will not want to pay it, and that, having > paid the penalty, > they will absolutely not make the choice to do that again. I can > only think of > one such penalty, though there are many ways of administering it. > > For example, if the fine for speeding were 100% of all your > personal holdings, > irresprctive of how much that might be, including clothing and > other personal > belongings, and 95% of all you earn or otherwise acquire for the > next 30 years, > assuming you can survive that long on only 5% of what you > acquire, you might not > choose to speed, particularly since it would require you to watch > your children > starve, if they hadn't already. It would be costly and diffucult > to exact that > penalty, while a quick bullet between the eyes would be easy and > simple. If a > mistake were made, well, a posthumous apology would have to suffice. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Hellige" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:14 PM > Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > >There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be > > >prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, > > >but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. > > >I have assumed the risk. > > > > That's called person responsibility, and with the way lawyers > > have made everyone believe that they are the victim, it's a rare > > thing to see. I do the same thing though...if I'm doing something > > like speeding it's because I conciously decided to and if I'm stopped > > for it, I'll pay the price for doing so. > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 7 22:12:17 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: <003801c10778$fd559980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010708070818.HXHB216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:41:16 -0600 > Organization: Erlacher Associates > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > You may have an easy time finding these for next to no cost at all if you find > some 3-chip 256K-byte 30-pin SIMMs. You can remove two chips of this type from > each of them. Hi, Now bit better details here... Okay, if it is 20pin DIP sockets, fetch 256K x 4 bit 60ns or 70ns DIPs (the ramdacs on these old computers is not that high to require 60ns). Off a old video cards is easiest, very common item. If it's SOJ, unsoldering chips from 2 or 3 chip 256K pair of simms is required. I haev not seen 20 pin SOJ sockets. This SOJ are soldered on directly to PCB or regular DIP sockets. 1M will only give you 1024x768 at 16 or 256 color I think. You might want to move up to 2M video card if u need windows acceleration and more color at 1024x768. S3 Trio 64V+ is very nice one if fully expanded to 2M. Most of 1M maxed video cards aren't as fully featured compared to 2M video chipsets. Cheers, Wizard From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 02:28:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708072806.79242.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Hi Ethan, > > I built some magic cables and plug the bare drive & board into a > PC to dump the tapes. If you are interested, I'll dig up the > source to the DOS program I used... Perfect. What's it written in? C? I'd like to consider attempting to optimize it if possible - kinda-of worst case is to read each block in order which requires 4 passes of the heads. I'm wondering if it's possible to do it in two passes if you don't mind reordering the data on the receiver's side. The cables look somewhat straight-forward. I was thinking of making a PC-floppy-to-TU-58 power supply harness (plenty of parts here) and a 2x5-Berg-to-RJ-45 board so I can hook the TU-58 into all the modular serial stuff I'm using here (got a small pile of Cisco serial connectors and flat-cables - the way they have this stuff wired up, if I trade out their ribbon cable with a 10BaseT patch cable, it's like adding a null modem (pins 4 and 5 are ground, 2 and 6 are TxD and RxD, etc) > I also have the TU58 tech manual, so I can post the jumpers if > needed. I'd do it now, but Nascar is starting and I need to pour > myself a coke :) > > Clint > > PS This message posted in memory of Dale Earnhardt, who lost his life > in the last turn of the 2001 Daytona 500. > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > Now that I have found a missing box of TU-58s, I plan to back them up > > for archival and emulation purposes. The easiest TU-58 drive I have > > access to is from an 11/730 (I have a VT-103 in storage, but the other > > drive is already out). Being as old as it is, the pinch rollers have > > turned to goo, naturally. > > > > Can someone give me a tip on what size Tygon tubing people have been > > using for replacement rollers? Is this something I can find at a > > Home Despot or do I have to go to an aquarium shop? Do you clean off > > all the residue from the aluminum hub, or do you just pull the goo off > > and put the Tygon right on? > > > > Is there an online listing of the jumpers on the TU-58 logic board? I > > want to make sure it's strapped to something useful. Looking at the > > internal power cable, Red could be +5 and Orange could be +12V, but > > does anyone know for sure? I plan to make an adapter cable and power > > the drive off of a PC floppy power plug. > > > > What's good software to make a physical block-for-block backup of a > > TU-58 tape? I don't care if it's UNIX or Winblows, I can do either. > > > > Are there any magical things that have to be done with the data cable, or > > can I just make sure gnd, pin 2 and pin 3 go through? > > > > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > > cover VMS 3.x? > > > > -ethan > > > > > > ===== > > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 03:32:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: <20010707133518.82345.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >> BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... (the >> search doesn't end) > >Boards? I have a IIc+. Presuming this isn't a troll, where do the boards go? Below is a clip from a usenet thread. The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, : but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! : Applied Engineering made a RAM expansion board it called "Z-RAM" : (3 different versions) which plugged into the 40-pin 65C02 socket. : The 65C02 plugged into the A.E. board, and it was a pain to plug : the RAM board into the 40-pin 65C02 sockey on the IIc+ motherboard. : There was also a jumper to a pin of another chip on the motherboard. : (A Z80 chip on the reverse side of the RAM board provided dynamic : refresh to the D-RAM chips.) They worked on all IIc and IIc+ : models, with or without the memory expansion socket. : Z-RAM can ocasionally be found for sale on eBay. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 03:46:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: >I have now gotten "cold feet" from signing up as a seller on US ebay (with >good reason!) since now they ask for both credit card and complete checking >bank account info!!! (how bout my fingerprints and social security no...?) Talk to your bank and credit card issuer, ask them what your liability is, and if you don't like it, switch to a bank etc. with better terms. Ebay has a monopoly on one thing, PEOPLE (ie buyers and sellers). Most reasonable alternative in my opionion is to list things in the marketplace sections of the appropriate newsgroups. Make a long list of your stuff and let people pick at it. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 04:27:29 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: References: <20010707133518.82345.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >>> BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... (the >>> search doesn't end) >> >>Boards? I have a IIc+. Presuming this isn't a troll, where do the >>boards go? > >Below is a clip from a usenet thread. > > The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, >: but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! Alltech still sells a 1 MB memory expansion, only $119. http://www.allelec.com/hardwapp.htm From roart at nvg.ntnu.no Sun Jul 8 05:54:25 2001 From: roart at nvg.ntnu.no (roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <200107071142.f67BgKC00817@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com>; from pechter@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:42:19AM -0400 References: <20010707060038.12191.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <200107071142.f67BgKC00817@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010708125425.B21553@nvg.ntnu.no> On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:42:19AM -0400, Bill Pechter wrote: > > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > > cover VMS 3.x? > > I think the license does... but the distributions started with 6.x > I think. > > My VaxStation 3100 is on the way FedEx... anyone know what the earliest > version of VAX/VMS for it is? 5.1-B for the earliest, 5.4 for the latest. See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6630/6630pro_015.html#license_app > I'd like to get a full copy of 3.6 or 4.2 to run... they were the last > versions I used doing Field Service. With 4.2 being from 1985, that would be the newest machines you can use, too. I suppose MicroVAX/VAXstation II was supported in 4.2, that would in case be the most powerful machine that is both easy getting hold of, transporting and getting indoors. -- -Roar Thron?s From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 8 06:16:50 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: <000901c10772$60ff6120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Thanks for this and the replaies from you and others. I didn't think of looking on the SIMMs but I have a box of old RAM Expansion cards I need to look through as well. I also have one message direct that states that they may help. See- I knew the people on this list knew their stuff. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher -> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:54 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips -> -> -> What's probably more important is the package. They come in -> various shapes and -> sizes. the 44C256 was once pretty popular. I bet half the old -> SVGA boards I -> handled today had those on them. Of course the other half didn't ... -> -> Some were in SO packages, though, while others might have been DIP's. -> -> Dick -> -> ----- Original Message ----- -> From: -> To: -> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 6:16 PM -> Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips -> -> -> > > From: "Russ Blakeman" -> > > To: "Classic computers message group" -> -> > > Subject: Need DRAM chips -> > > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 -> > > Importance: Normal -> > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> > -> > > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 -> card. The ones -> > > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 -> pin (10 pins -> > > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part -> with them - and if -> > > so how much? -> > > -> > -> > Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? -> > There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad -> > different in specs. -> > -> > Cheers, -> > -> > Wizard -> > -> > -> From stefan at softhome.net Sun Jul 8 06:48:18 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010708134639.02e0fec0@pop.softhome.net> Hi Claude, You could try my site where I have an "Old Computer Market" where anybody can post there adds completely for free. Check it out at http://www.oldcomputercollection.com and select "Old Computer Market". Stefan Mansier. At 01:29 8-7-01 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all > >Some of you probably have seen some of my posts. > >I have given away a lot of computer stuff vintage and semi-vintage and >traded a lot. I have trashed a lot lately. > >I recent years, I have accumulated way too much computer stuff (mostly >vintage and semi-vintage) in my basement...I can only trade so much and >trades arent really helping with the "space issue"... > >I dont wanna junk it and can see most of it can be used...I have paid some >money for most of this... > >I have always "boycotted" ebay as both a seller and a buyer...now online >auctions look like the only way to unload quickly the tons of stuff I >have... Ill have to pack and ship but I was ready to give it a >shot....rather then junk tons of working computers...and related equip... > >I have now gotten "cold feet" from signing up as a seller on US ebay (with >good reason!) since now they ask for both credit card and complete checking >bank account info!!! (how bout my fingerprints and social security no...?) > >Thats way too much info too have "floating around on the net" for me...even >just giving my credit card is "unconfortable" for me... > >I can only imagine the ebay seller sign-ups going way down now...I know >there is a lotta fraud on ebay but this is not a good idea for ebay IMO... > >I have also heard horror stories like paypal fetching funds from sellers >bank accounts when stuff was undelivered or problems happened...gee... > >I could sign up for ebay canada, they only ask for credit card info (weird >hey?) but would not be able to have the stuff listed on the US ebay....I >have to open up a new account and given the bank account info to be on US >ebay.... > >So anybody with any good alternatives to ebay? > >Claude >http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From cbajpai at mediaone.net Sun Jul 8 07:09:01 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? (PET Parts???) In-Reply-To: <20010708063702.96470.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ethan...did you say Commodore PET parts? I'm looking for some parts to get an 8K PET running...esp. ROMs + a keyboard. What have you got? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 2:37 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: How much is a partial Lisa worth? --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > > asking $300. > > Well, since he's trying to go out of business, does he really want to go > through the trouble of having to list this thing on eBay to get the $300 > that he wants? He seems pretty pig-headed. Some of his (other) prices are absurd. > If not then he should sell it to you for a far more reasonable $50. > Without a keyboard or mouse (don't tell him a Mac mouse will work :) Of course not. :-) > he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. You underestimate the amount of stupid people who bid there, but with the decline in the value of stock options, people aren't buying as many overpriced vintage computers as they used to, I'd wager; at least not for as much as they used to. Still, I do agree. Working Lisa/MacXLs are going for $400-$500 or so. > He won't get substantially more than $50, and the trouble he would have to > go through to get the money, pack it and ship it will make it not worth > the effort. > > Try to diplomatically bring this to his attention and maybe he'll see it > your way :) I was going to go by tomorrow on the last day of the sale and a) see if it's still there, and b) offer him the $50 and see if he takes it. If he won't budge, I'm not going to give him what he asks. I've been through business liquidations on both ends. I negotiated the entire quantity of Commodore stuff out of our local dealer when he closed. A friend of mine and I split the cost and the haul. He only wanted three or four pricey and valuable things (Ethernet card, large monitor, stuff like that). I got, for not much more than this bozo wants for part of a Lisa, two station-wagon loads of C= service center parts, including a 19" Viking monitor with the special Amiga card, a couple of stripped A2000s (back when they were worth a few hundred bucks), two parts drawers full of PET through Amiga chips, three linear feet of C= service manuals, promotional video tapes, the works. *That* was a going-out-of-business sale! This guy is still too attached to the stuff to recognize that he needs to take what he can get and move on. I plan to raid the dumpster next week for the stuff he couldn't sell. :-) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 8 07:09:09 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002601c10777$a3207300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. I simply > expect others to do that too. I don't understand the premise that you think that everyone else is trying to change the laws. Are you saying that the laws where you are currently make the penalties for infractions and misdemeanors the same as the penalty for shooting Dick? What color is the sky there? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 07:23:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV Message-ID: >Bad solder joint on the crt or power supply. > >JAG >>The display exhibits multiple problems; >> A nasty moire type pattern >> Crackling, shorting type sounds >> Display collapses with each crack, which occur several per second. >> >>So far I have booted the unit a couple times to be sure it wasn't some >>temporary condition, and tonight I swapped out the analog board with no >>change. >> >>Any ideas? I am thinking maybe the tube is hosed, but I am unfamiliar with >>this type of failure. Fortunately I have no shortage of 57x donor machines, >>but I don't want to swap the tube if it isn't a likely fix. It sure feels, smells more like a short than an open, but I will take another look. Plus I did swap the entire analog board including the tin can on the back of the CRT. What I may do next is pop off the back and power the unit up in a dark room tonight. BTW what do you mean exactly by bad solder joint on the CRT? *** update I took off the back and booted the system in a dark room just now, and the light show is all from the inside of the neck of the CRT. With the power off I don't "see" any damaged areas, but it sure was active with the power on, flashes, glowing areas that looked almost like embers, very sci fi. This must mean the CRT is toast right? or could something else cause this?(given the whole analog board was swapped out with no change). From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jul 8 08:39:12 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: References: <20010707133518.82345.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, >>: but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! > >Alltech still sells a 1 MB memory expansion, only $119. >http://www.allelec.com/hardwapp.htm I've never taken them apart to check it out, but how different are the RAM cards between the IIc and the Laser 128? I've got a couple of 1meg RAM expansion boards for the Laser 128, none of them have any of the RAM chips installed. I also have what appears to be a proto or knockoff of the same board, fully populated. The layout is the same but instead of being on the standard green PCB, it's on a silver metallic one and all the chips are socketed vice just the RAM chips on the factory boards. It also doesn't have any markings on the board at all. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 08:58:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 6:09 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. I simply > > expect others to do that too. > > I don't understand the premise that you think that everyone else is trying > to change the laws. I didn't say that. I said that if folks don't want to obey the existing laws, they should, within the existing legal framework, endeavor to change them, not simply disregard them. > Are you saying that the laws where you are currently make the penalties > for infractions and misdemeanors the same as the penalty for shooting > Dick? > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. I said that you don't just step off a cliff on a whim, and, therefore, it's reasonble to assume that, since the outcome would be the same, you wouldn't spit on the sidewalk if the penalty for that were capital. It's not, of course, but, clearly, if everyone gets to choose which laws he/she obeys and which not, then we're all in trouble. Think about it! One guy thinks it's OK for him to spit on the sidewalk. Another thinks it's OK to drive 40 mph in that 25 mph zone. He can afford to pay the fine. Acceptance of that means that the guy with a 7-figure income basically can ignore the "lesser" laws that carry penalties he can afford to pay. Now, another guy thinks it's OK to have a couple of extra drinks before he drives home from the bar. He figures it's worth the risk, and he can afford to pay the fines, and he can afford to hire a lawyer to minimize what he does have to pay. In most states there no significant additional penalty for being drunk and killing half a dozen people than simply for causing a wreck resulting in jnjury because he's drunk. Is that the right way? Should he be able to make the choices resulting in the deaths of several people just because he can pay the fines and pay the lawyers? Should we tolerate that he do it again? How does that differ from the guy who gets drunk and shoots his neighbor in an argument? What about the guy who shoots his neighbor in an argument, but doesn't get drunk first? What if there was no argument first. What if he just sneaks up on the guy and shoots him? What if he does it in order to rob the guy? > > What color is the sky there? > Same as where you are, but I'm really tired of folks ingoring the "minor" laws we, as a society, have put in place in order to make the community safer and more liveable, only to have some jerk who feels he's more important than the rest of us go off and do somethng that puts us, our safety, and our peace of mind at risk. The business with the illegal fireworks that everybody views with a blind eye seems a good example. Another one would be the really loud car stereo. What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. > From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 8 09:26:13 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <20010707221327.H1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what > are we going to do about it? Ah, the solutions to that are very simple, and would result in more land being available for future generations: 1. Implement a child tax for people with more than two children and stop giving people tax breaks for having children. Give people tax breaks for not having children. 2. Do away with religions dogma that makes people believe that it's ok to go forth and multiply like rabits, flies, etc. 3. Intitute a ban on the building of new houses, unless for the purpose of replacement. Ban the building of business parks and other such commercial development that's destroying the woodlands and farms that we have left. Halt all new road construction. 4. Reduce immigration by at least 95 percent. 5. Spay and geld all illegal immigrants; then send them back home. and... 6. Have a revolution and then elect me to be the king. If elected, I promise that hacking shall be encouraged and promoted, and that PERQs, PDP-11/45s --- or at least blinken-light equipped, faster, and modern pseudo-equivalents of them, valved radios, audio amplifiers and large automobiles shall be manufactured in plentiful supply. ...and in addition, I'll not tax farm land. :-) From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 8 09:31:59 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001701c10777$4f1eb640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > child, part of that is a penalty. That penalty must ensure that you > will under no circumstances cause annoyance to anyone else ever > again, and it should serve Hmmmm... perhaps Dick needs our help with his education. Shall we set up a little meeting to explain the use of tar and feathers to him? ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From fauradon at frontiernet.net Sun Jul 8 11:31:48 2001 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Calculator Find References: <01be01c10682$926b3860$4b731fd1@default> Message-ID: <004401c107cb$7d9bc2c0$0264640a@frontiernet.net> Hi John., Which auctions are you going to? Need company? Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Keys Jr." To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:17 PM Subject: Calculator Find > While at the thrift on Thursday I found a Singer Friden EC 1117A > electronic calculator for $1.99 plus tax. Also got non working Hitron > laptop for $4.99. Picked up about 20 books with alot of them being HP > calculator manuals. Almost forgot a Toshiba T5100 cost all of $2. Other > than the hand full of mousepads that was it for the week. Hope to hit > two big auctions next week looking for a few goodies. > > From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 8 09:42:27 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c107bc$36155ba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Richard, I can see you're putting a lot of effort in your posts. But at this point I think I should tell you that all I'm doing with them is [DEL], [DEL], [DEL]. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 8 09:44:51 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff ... on the subject line References: Message-ID: <00af01c107bc$8be3e920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Sellam said: > I may have {a website} ready to roll by the end of this month. What about the VCF? I plan to take two trips to VCF east. On day one I will collect wants and availabilities and on day 2 match them to my availabilities and wants. It'd be nice to replace shipping costs for the price of hitchhiking the item in my car, it's much cheaper. It would be better still if peoples' 'wants and haves' were known Before VCF east so I could start bringing on day one. Some things I have now, much of it free, are: Thomas-Conrad setup (cards,hub,docs), Funky Apple ///, RS6000 (for $), SMD drive ($), IDE drives, Netware Docs. John A. From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Sun Jul 8 10:03:41 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Space War? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706234333.022b3a60@209.185.79.193> <200107071545.f67Fjhs45452@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3B48764C.B244B7D9@bellsouth.net> Frank McConnell wrote: > > Chuck McManis wrote: > > As I understand it the Computer Museum History Center brought up SpaceWar > > on a PDP-1 to demonstrate it before some patent attorneys who used it as > > 'prior art' to invalidate some video game patents. > > IIRC, TCM's PDP-1 failed to power up at some time while still at TCM > in Boston. (Early-mid 1990s?) It is now at Moffett Field, and there > is (or was recently) interest in restoring it to functionality. > > -Frank McConnell There is actually more than 1 PDP-1 at Moffett. They had one in the visible display area during DECWORLD 2001, but another one sits all wrapped up on a pallet in the warehouse storage area. I am sure they will eventually get one running. They expect to build a new building and occupy it in 2005. A working PDP-1 would make a nice exhibit for the new location. They have enough old DEC systems in the warehouse to keep them busy with restoration projects for a long time. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 8 10:12:29 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B48785D.7B0EC3FD@tiac.net> What is this CRAP! All all laws just and fair? Hell no. How about a law against long, off-topic threads on this list! Lets not kill the messanger (yet), but lets kill the OT threads, please. Richard Erlacher wrote: > see below, plz. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Allain" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 4:12 PM > Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > - - - - - > > "if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't > > want > > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the > > planet." > > - - - - - > > Sorry, I can't let a statement like this be made without dissent. > > (1) I can't expect an enforceable perfection from others, and > > It's the notion of intent that's the problem. You can't measure that, however, > so it's the act that's got to be the determining factor. > > > (2) see no need to make any penalties not match the crimes > > involved. This is the modern equivalent of 'Eye for an Eye'. > > > > That's the other side of the coin. If you adhere to the slippery slope notion, > then you recognize that if one is mildly punished for stealing a grape, but > severely punished for stealing a pig, it's easy to make the transition. If > one's killed for either, it makes no difference, since it will only have to be > dealt with once. > > Just ask yourself, "What would it take to make me (meaning YOU) adhere to all > the laws all the time?" Adhering to the laws is far from perfection, since the > laws aren't perfect. Laws are the minimal conduct needed from every citizen in > order to have a liveable society. If you don't care to live in a society with a > given set of laws, you should leave. If there's no place on the planet where > there are laws that suit you, then you should go elsewhere. The laws define the > minimal acceptable behavior within a given society. If you don't want to adhere > to those minimae, then you should be ejaculated from the society. Surely > there's someplace that will tolerate your behavior, but others, those willing to > behave within the legal standards, shouldn't have to tolerate your antisocial > and extralegal behavior. > > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the system. In the > meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. Part of > effecting change involves work and suffering, the rest is waiting. > > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish than you > repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them. > If you KNEW for certain that someone else would take it upon himself to punish > you by some equally illegal act, and any illegal act is equally illegal, you > might not behave as you do. > > > > - - - - - > > "Clearly, you can't see the sense of this" > > - - - - - > > Yup, me too. > > > > > > - - - - - > > "You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be > > killed > > for speeding" > > - - - - - > > If you're talking about death for speeding and the like, then I believe the > > people > > would toss law enforcement altogether and start over. > > > > > > John A. > > > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 8 10:34:36 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Calculator Find References: <01be01c10682$926b3860$4b731fd1@default> <004401c107cb$7d9bc2c0$0264640a@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <001b01c107c3$849ec7a0$ca731fd1@default> I'm going to the imation and 3m auction that run Monday and Tuesday of this week. I will be going around 11AM on Monday from work (during my lunch hour) if you want to meet me there it would be great. I could use so help as things are going too high for me to bid alone anymore. If we see something we like we can go half and half on the bid. I wish I had contacted you about the school auction 2 weeks ago I ended up missing alot of good items cheap because I got mad and left. Tell the wife hello for me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue & Francois" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Calculator Find > Hi John., > Which auctions are you going to? > Need company? > Francois > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Keys Jr." > To: > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:17 PM > Subject: Calculator Find > > > > While at the thrift on Thursday I found a Singer Friden EC 1117A > > electronic calculator for $1.99 plus tax. Also got non working Hitron > > laptop for $4.99. Picked up about 20 books with alot of them being HP > > calculator manuals. Almost forgot a Toshiba T5100 cost all of $2. Other > > than the hand full of mousepads that was it for the week. Hope to hit > > two big auctions next week looking for a few goodies. > > > > > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Jul 8 11:13:56 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B4886C4.AE5FE3E7@rain.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social > contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, > that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and > have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. > > What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some > people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it > themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. Dick, I think your words have been getting in the way of what you are trying to say. The above statement seems to boil it all down pretty well. And of course, you are right :)!!! And to add just a bit, some of the laws that are passed seem to be politically motivated, and the hell with the betterment of society. Personally, I would like to see the politicians justify ALL laws that get passed including the pork barrel attachments. Little to nothing is being done to encourage people to obey the laws, and passing stupid laws just promotes disrespect for the law. From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:19:47 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The politicians in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Take Russia or India. There's corruption. This is nothing. The "corruption" here is basically the small amount that gets past the radar of the all-consuming all-terrifying tyrannical American mob. Other countries don't have this mechanism. It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our politicians in line. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. > > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > take 200 years for it to happen). > > Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the > United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:23:20 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10773$6c4e7880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: If society were to take this kind of horrible intolerable turn, I would be forced to take up arms. I would kill as many people as I could (it would be quite a few, I think. Myself and a couple other intelligent people might be able to think up ingenious ways of destroying, if necessary.) and then I would happily go off to the executioner. If the penalty was the former of your two examples, I would make sure to produce absolutely nothing. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The trick is to assign a penalty so severe that all people, no matter how many > trillions they have, will not want to pay it, and that, having paid the penalty, > they will absolutely not make the choice to do that again. I can only think of > one such penalty, though there are many ways of administering it. > > For example, if the fine for speeding were 100% of all your personal holdings, > irresprctive of how much that might be, including clothing and other personal > belongings, and 95% of all you earn or otherwise acquire for the next 30 years, > assuming you can survive that long on only 5% of what you acquire, you might not > choose to speed, particularly since it would require you to watch your children > starve, if they hadn't already. It would be costly and diffucult to exact that > penalty, while a quick bullet between the eyes would be easy and simple. If a > mistake were made, well, a posthumous apology would have to suffice. > > Dick From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jul 8 11:32:32 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: In a message dated 7/8/01 10:26:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rdd@smart.net writes: << On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > child, part of that is a penalty. That penalty must ensure that you > will under no circumstances cause annoyance to anyone else ever > again, and it should serve Hmmmm... perhaps Dick needs our help with his education. Shall we set up a little meeting to explain the use of tar and feathers to him? ;-) >> how about we CENSURE him so we can...uh... get back on topic? -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:40:03 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Reponses inline: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I didn't say that. I said that if folks don't want to obey the existing laws, > they should, within the existing legal framework, endeavor to change them, not > simply disregard them. There are times when endeavoring to change a law is simply not enough. Suppose that the law called for your execution for something that was out of your control? Like the circumstances of your birth? How about forced sterilization due to a genetic abnormality? What if the majority believes in this? Without civil disobedience, our black friends would not be our black friends. They would simply be the niggers living screwing up our neighborhoods. There would still be acceptable scientific theories regarding the genetic superiority of certain races. > > Are you saying that the laws where you are currently make the penalties > > for infractions and misdemeanors the same as the penalty for shooting > > Dick? > > > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social > contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, > that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and > have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. Some of the most grave injustices are social contracts that were forced on people. Sometimes simply "leaving" is not an option. > I said that you don't just step off a cliff on a whim, and, therefore, it's > reasonble to assume that, since the outcome would be the same, you wouldn't spit > on the sidewalk if the penalty for that were capital. It's not, of course, but, > clearly, if everyone gets to choose which laws he/she obeys and which not, then > we're all in trouble. But if you accidentally step off a cliff, you still die. Are you saying that, through no fault of your own, if you break the law, you should be executed? I cannot and will not subscribe to this idea. > Think about it! One guy thinks it's OK for him to spit on the sidewalk. > Another thinks it's OK to drive 40 mph in that 25 mph zone. He can afford to > pay the fine. Acceptance of that means that the guy with a 7-figure income > basically can ignore the "lesser" laws that carry penalties he can afford to > pay. That's why we have license revocation and demerit points. Do you think millionaires *like* to pay fines? No way. Millionaires become millionaires (outside of the inheritance case) by being thrift-wise. > Now, another guy thinks it's OK to have a couple of extra drinks before he > drives home from the bar. He figures it's worth the risk, and he can afford to > pay the fines, and he can afford to hire a lawyer to minimize what he does have > to pay. In most states there no significant additional penalty for being drunk > and killing half a dozen people than simply for causing a wreck resulting in > jnjury because he's drunk. Is that the right way? Should he be able to make > the choices resulting in the deaths of several people just because he can pay > the fines and pay the lawyers? Should we tolerate that he do it again? How > does that differ from the guy who gets drunk and shoots his neighbor in an > argument? What about the guy who shoots his neighbor in an argument, but > doesn't get drunk first? What if there was no argument first. What if he just > sneaks up on the guy and shoots him? What if he does it in order to rob the > guy? Well, ideally, the public defender should be the best attorney in the lot. Ideally. > > What color is the sky there? > > > Same as where you are, but I'm really tired of folks ingoring the "minor" laws > we, as a society, have put in place in order to make the community safer and > more liveable, only to have some jerk who feels he's more important than the > rest of us go off and do somethng that puts us, our safety, and our peace of > mind at risk. The business with the illegal fireworks that everybody views with > a blind eye seems a good example. Another one would be the really loud car > stereo. You are aware that most of these "really loud stereos" don't violate noise ordinance right? Even the ones with 4 12-inchers in a three-way bandpass. You advocate communism. Everyone is the most important. That is what it means to live in America. Move to Cuba. Or bettter yet, move to China. > What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some > people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it > themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. That is why I say that you value the society over its members. Let me say that I don't completely disagree with you. It is just that it is not the American way. Period. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:41:37 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is the kind of mentality that allowed demagogues like Hitler and Stalin to flourish. (I didn't think you were serious, but I still had to respond.) Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what > > are we going to do about it? > > Ah, the solutions to that are very simple, and would result in > more land being available for future generations: > > 1. Implement a child tax for people with more than two children and > stop giving people tax breaks for having children. Give people tax > breaks for not having children. > 2. Do away with religions dogma that makes people believe that it's ok > to go forth and multiply like rabits, flies, etc. > 3. Intitute a ban on the building of new houses, unless for the purpose of > replacement. Ban the building of business parks and other such commercial > development that's destroying the woodlands and farms that we have left. > Halt all new road construction. > 4. Reduce immigration by at least 95 percent. > 5. Spay and geld all illegal immigrants; then send them back home. > > and... > > 6. Have a revolution and then elect me to be the king. If elected, I > promise that hacking shall be encouraged and promoted, and that PERQs, > PDP-11/45s --- or at least blinken-light equipped, faster, > and modern pseudo-equivalents of them, valved radios, audio amplifiers > and large automobiles shall be manufactured in plentiful supply. > ...and in addition, I'll not tax farm land. :-) > > From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:44:25 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff ... on the subject line In-Reply-To: <00af01c107bc$8be3e920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: What kind of RS/6K? Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Sellam said: > > I may have {a website} ready to roll by the end of this month. > > What about the VCF? > > I plan to take two trips to VCF east. > On day one I will collect wants and availabilities > and on day 2 match them to my availabilities and wants. > It'd be nice to replace shipping costs for the price of > hitchhiking the item in my car, it's much cheaper. > > It would be better still if peoples' 'wants and haves' were > known Before VCF east so I could start bringing on day one. > > Some things I have now, much of it free, are: > Thomas-Conrad setup (cards,hub,docs), Funky Apple ///, > RS6000 (for $), SMD drive ($), IDE drives, Netware Docs. > > John A. > From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 10:45:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002601c10777$a3207300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. > I simply expect others to do that too. What's the penalty for kicking you square in the nuts? I'll gladly pay it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 10:49:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <20010708063702.96470.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. > > You underestimate the amount of stupid people who bid there, but with > the decline in the value of stock options, people aren't buying as > many overpriced vintage computers as they used to, I'd wager; at least > not for as much as they used to. Exactly. The vintage computer market peaked a year ago, about the time the stock market tanked and all the paper value that instigated $3,000 Altairs and IMSAIs went "poof". > Still, I do agree. Working Lisa/MacXLs are going for $400-$500 or so. I still think that's a bit inflated. > I was going to go by tomorrow on the last day of the sale and a) see > if it's still there, and b) offer him the $50 and see if he takes it. > If he won't budge, I'm not going to give him what he asks. Good! Hold strong! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 10:52:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, > >: but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! > > Alltech still sells a 1 MB memory expansion, only $119. > http://www.allelec.com/hardwapp.htm Damn, what a bargain. I'll bet all 2 remaining loyal //c users are beating a path to their storefront. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Sun Jul 8 11:59:35 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 06-Jul-2001 Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... http://hpux.asknet.de/ might interest you. -Philip From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 10:59:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff ... on the subject line In-Reply-To: <00af01c107bc$8be3e920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > What about the VCF? > > I plan to take two trips to VCF east. > On day one I will collect wants and availabilities > and on day 2 match them to my availabilities and wants. > It'd be nice to replace shipping costs for the price of > hitchhiking the item in my car, it's much cheaper. > > It would be better still if peoples' 'wants and haves' were > known Before VCF east so I could start bringing on day one. > > Some things I have now, much of it free, are: > Thomas-Conrad setup (cards,hub,docs), Funky Apple ///, > RS6000 (for $), SMD drive ($), IDE drives, Netware Docs. A trading message board is a good idea. I'll work on getting the message board software I created for VCF 4.0 last year implemented on the VCF East page. That way, people can use the system to discuss these sorts of trades. I'll post here soon when it's available. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 11:02:40 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B4886C4.AE5FE3E7@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Marvin wrote: > Dick, I think your words have been getting in the way of what you are > trying to say. The above statement seems to boil it all down pretty > well. And of course, you are right :)!!! And to add just a bit, some > of the laws that are passed seem to be politically motivated, and the > hell with the betterment of society. Personally, I would like to see > the politicians justify ALL laws that get passed including the pork > barrel attachments. Little to nothing is being done to encourage > people to obey the laws, and passing stupid laws just promotes > disrespect for the law. And we can blame part of this on our beacon of morality who sets an example for the American citizenry, our President! ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From west at tseinc.com Mon Jul 9 00:22:51 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) References: Message-ID: <00d601c10837$33aec600$858953d1@jay> Ok, I'll be the first to beg - can we end this thread on politics and get back to classic computers? Jay West From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 8 12:30:06 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas References: Message-ID: <007301c107d3$bf14f480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The > politicians in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Agree. I studied Indonesia since I had a crush for one of its expats and found this neat story: You're running a small business and on one day the liscenced Air Conditioner inspector comes by and does his thing, then, a few days later the Gvt Narcotics Police come by and "discover" a small stash planted in guess where? That's Corruption. BTW they just rotated their prime minister so there's some progress. John A. From owad at applefritter.com Sun Jul 8 12:40:29 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000b01c10765$8ffb7fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <000b01c10765$8ffb7fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010708174029.18356@mail.earthlink.net> > The Arkansas legislature passed a law that states that the Arkansas > River can rise no higher than to the Main Street bridge in Little > Rock. Has it obeyed? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Sun Jul 8 12:55:47 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) In-Reply-To: <00d601c10837$33aec600$858953d1@jay> Message-ID: On 09-Jul-2001 Jay West wrote: > Ok, I'll be the first to beg - can we end this thread on politics and > get back to classic computers? Hear hear! Deleting all this crap each time i download my mail is annoying and time-wasting. -Philip From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Sun Jul 8 13:20:49 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994616449.3b48a481e57ec@mail.er-grp.com> Quoting gwynp@artware.qc.ca: > > On 06-Jul-2001 Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... > > http://hpux.asknet.de/ might interest you. Probably wont help him, those HP-UX archives are mostly s700. It's difficult enough to find software for 300-series but the 500-series (of which 9020 is a member aka. 9000/520) is impossible, with the exception of kermit. I'm lucky enough to be blessed with microemacs, a good network stack, uniplex (?) office program collection and some sort of FEA software. I'll try Nethack someday :) -- jht From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 8 13:01:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707201718.00ab0dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jul 7, 1 08:20:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 460 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010708/70e65e18/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 8 13:05:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <001901c10745$4d220ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 7, 1 06:31:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1771 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010708/684d0102/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jul 8 13:21:10 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <20010707221327.H1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what > are we going to do about it? I just shot the breeder next door. I've done my part. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jul 8 12:57:08 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: gwynp@artware.qc.ca's message of "Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:59:35 -0400 (EDT)" References: Message-ID: <200107081757.f68Hv8A90634@daemonweed.reanimators.org> gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > On 06-Jul-2001 Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... > > http://hpux.asknet.de/ might interest you. It's unlikely. Wolfgang is asking about an HP 9000/520 aka 9020. It's one of HP's first 9000s, sort of an early workstation, and was well on its way to obsolescence in the early 1990s. The processor architecture is a 32-bit stack machine called FOCUS, and it's nothing like a Motorola 68000 nor HP PA-RISC. And it's been frustrating open-source types for years. Here's what etc/MACHINES file from the GNU Emacs distribution has had to say for a long time now: # HP 9000 series 500: not supported. # # The series 500 has a seriously incompatible memory architecture # which relocates data in memory during execution of a program, # and support for it would be difficult to implement. -Frank McConnell From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 13:23:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B48785D.7B0EC3FD@tiac.net> Message-ID: <005101c107db$0a189520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > What is this CRAP! > > All all laws just and fair? Hell no. > > How about a law against long, off-topic threads on this list! > Well, that's what I've been driving at, isn't it? If the legal structure isn't what you want, don't ignore it, but FIX IT! > > Lets not kill the messanger (yet), but lets kill the OT threads, please. > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > see below, plz. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Allain" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 4:12 PM > > Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > From owad at applefritter.com Sun Jul 8 13:24:26 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: FS/T: 8-bit micros Message-ID: <20010708182426.13905@mail.earthlink.net> Pick up in south-central PA or at VCF East. Some of this stuff I could possibly ship. TRS-80 CoCo 2 CoCo 2 box (medoiocre condition) CCR-82 Cassette Recorder w/cable Introducing Your Color Computer 2 Getting Started with Extended Color BASIC Extended BASIC Quick Reference Carts: Color File II w/booklet & case Personal Finance II w/booklet & case Commodore VIC-20 AC adapter unusual-looking (to me) RF modulator Carts: Adventure Land Mole Attack Voodoo Castle Number Nabber, Shape Grabber River Rescue TRS-80 CoCo 3. I could have sworn I didn't own one of these. It's in the original box, which is in decent condition. TRS-80 Model 4 Getting Started with TRS-80 BASIC for Models I & III C64 in box w/a bunch of manuals and 'Books of Commodore'. And I think I've got another three Commdores, too, two of which I'm pretty certain are the newer Platinum variation. I had no idea I had so many 64's. These things are worse than rabbits. IBM Convertible w/brand-new-in-box power adapter. IBM Convertible w/battery unit & brand-new-in-box power adapter. Stuff I'm looking for: Apple & Mac clones Interesting Apple stuff NeXT cube Apple II (plain II) LEGO stuff (blocks or electronics) Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 13:22:56 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: DECW$ resolution Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708112143.00ab1b60@209.185.79.193> Well the two tricks that I hadn't caught on to was that you have to install the "workstation support" files, and after installing Motif you have to run AUTOGEN again so that it can mess with your parameters. Then it comes up to the window system. Very nice. --Chuck From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 8 14:00:13 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B48ADBD.BD60AB40@internet1.net> Joe, I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or undersize. They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without appropriate updates on the power system. Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. It is part of a longer range solution. Drilling in new locations is something a lot of countries are doing. Drilling in the North Sea is being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. Something might have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA joe wrote: > Is that the same energy crisis that the oil industry keeps saying is > being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones > of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how > drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery > capacity! > > Joe From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 14:06:17 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <20010708125425.B21553@nvg.ntnu.no> from "roart@nvg.ntnu.no" at Jul 08, 2001 12:54:25 PM Message-ID: <200107081906.f68J6Hk24430@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > > > cover VMS 3.x? > > > > I think the license does... but the distributions started with 6.x > > I think. > > > > My VaxStation 3100 is on the way FedEx... anyone know what the earliest > > version of VAX/VMS for it is? > > 5.1-B for the earliest, 5.4 for the latest. > See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6630/6630pro_015.html#license_app A VAXstation 3100 can run versions of OpenVMS later than 5.4. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 14:27:59 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010708134639.02e0fec0@pop.softhome.net> References: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708122614.024a22e0@209.185.79.193> At 01:48 PM 7/8/01 +0200, stefan wrote: >Hi Claude, > >You could try my site where I have an "Old Computer Market" where anybody >can post there adds completely for free. Check it out at >http://www.oldcomputercollection.com and select "Old Computer Market". > >Stefan Mansier. When I try to read these pages the text is totally obscured on the left hand side by some weird dark blue graphic! --Chuck Oh, never mind its an "Internet Exploder Only" site ... From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 8 14:35:42 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: VMS Timeline and more Message-ID: I was just poking around on the net, killing some time while watching something I've got running at work, so I decided to see what I could dig up on VMS. Anyway I just found a *very* interesting page. http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/vms_hist.html It has release dates and major feature changes from V1 - V7.2. BTW, for those that don't know V7.3 was released a couple months ago. Anyway it's an interesting page. It looks like http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/ might be worth looking through also. Such as http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/vms_hw.html which lists minimum OS versions for the various systems. Anyway I don't know who dug all this info up and created these pages, but they look to have a bunch of info I've been looking for, for a long time. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 15:02:39 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> > The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, >> >: but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! >> >> Alltech still sells a 1 MB memory expansion, only $119. >> http://www.allelec.com/hardwapp.htm > >Damn, what a bargain. I'll bet all 2 remaining loyal //c users are >beating a path to their storefront. Actually I emailed them to see if I could cut a deal on a Focus drive and memory expansion. (I have a few sealed cases of a part they have been out of stock for a bit on). From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:11:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B4886C4.AE5FE3E7@rain.org> Message-ID: <006001c107ea$8c2ebee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, perhaps words have gotten in the way, but, however true it is that stupid laws promote their own irrelevance, the fact that they are disregarded also promotes the passage of more stupid laws. If they were taken seriously, and the politicians not allowed to get by with weak and senseless laws, people would take them more seriously. Everybody knows, however, that politicians won't be the ones to take the lead. If folks would do their part in keep the social contract, the politicians would have to follow. If everybody simply does what they've been doing, things will never improve. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social > > contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, > > that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and > > have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. > > > > What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some > > people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it > > themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. > > Dick, I think your words have been getting in the way of what you are trying > to say. The above statement seems to boil it all down pretty well. And of > course, you are right :)!!! And to add just a bit, some of the laws that are > passed seem to be politically motivated, and the hell with the betterment of > society. Personally, I would like to see the politicians justify ALL laws > that get passed including the pork barrel attachments. Little to nothing is > being done to encourage people to obey the laws, and passing stupid laws > just promotes disrespect for the law. > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:14:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas References: Message-ID: <006101c107ea$8c5050a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's not the politicians that are corrupt. It's the citizens who don't hold up their end of the social contract. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The politicians > in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Take Russia or > India. There's corruption. This is nothing. The "corruption" here is > basically the small amount that gets past the radar of the all-consuming > all-terrifying tyrannical American mob. Other countries don't have this > mechanism. It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in > that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our > politicians in line. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > > > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > > > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > > > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > > > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > > > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. > > > > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > > take 200 years for it to happen). > > > > Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the > > United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:15:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <006701c107ea$c7e686c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, SUPRDAVE, what was the topic? How relevant was a discussion of fireworks and 4th of July party practices to "classic computers?" Who started this thing, anyway. I know I didn't. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:32 AM Subject: Re: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > In a message dated 7/8/01 10:26:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rdd@smart.net > writes: > > << On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > child, part of that is a penalty. That penalty must ensure that you > > will under no circumstances cause annoyance to anyone else ever > > again, and it should serve > > Hmmmm... perhaps Dick needs our help with his education. Shall we set > up a little meeting to explain the use of tar and feathers to him? ;-) > >> > > how about we CENSURE him so we can...uh... get back on topic? > > -- > DB Young Team OS/2 > > old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: > www.nothingtodo.org > > From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sun Jul 8 11:51:09 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration... Message-ID: <3B488F7D.9FAB1D09@diablonet.net> I think it's really unfortunate that Mr. Erlacher finds it necessary hijack the list with this ridiculous rhetoric. It's just totally beyond me why someone would want to speak in this fashion. I find the lack of importance Mr. Erlacher assigns to basic concepts such as liberty, individuality, and respect for human life appalling. We've all probably lived long enough to know that governments oftentimes get confused and start to drift from what they're supposed to be doing (keeping basic order) to legislating trivial and personal areas of human life. I'd prefer not to have every element of my life dictated by corrupt old men and off-the-wall special interest groups, so on occasion, I find it necessary to work around some of the more ridiculous instances of government spew. There are definitely things that are wrong because they hurt others and set back progress made by society, and punishments should be in place to dissuade people from doing things like this. If you think it's necessary, however, to slaughter everyone who's ever done five over on the highway or smoked a joint, I'd be inclined to wonder what terrible abuse you must have lived through to think in this manner. Really, though, this is the "classic computer collector mailing list", not the "ultratotalitarian politics list", so as a few other people are starting to say as well, could we please just lay this one to rest? It's accomplishing nothing, save for making a lot of people very offended and angry. Thanks, --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 15:28:44 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: <994616449.3b48a481e57ec@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: What kind of machine is the 9000/520? MOT? PA-RISC? Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > Quoting gwynp@artware.qc.ca: > > > > > On 06-Jul-2001 Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > > > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > > > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... > > > > http://hpux.asknet.de/ might interest you. > > Probably wont help him, those HP-UX archives are mostly s700. It's > difficult enough to find software for 300-series but the 500-series > (of which 9020 is a member aka. 9000/520) is impossible, with the > exception of kermit. > > I'm lucky enough to be blessed with microemacs, a good network stack, > uniplex (?) office program collection and some sort of FEA software. > > I'll try Nethack someday :) > -- > jht > From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 15:31:57 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: <006101c107ea$8c5050a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I didn't make any observations about the corruption of the populace here. Only the politicians. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's not the politicians that are corrupt. It's the citizens who don't hold up > their end of the social contract. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vance Dereksen" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:19 AM > Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > > > > > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The politicians > > in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Take Russia or > > India. There's corruption. This is nothing. The "corruption" here is > > basically the small amount that gets past the radar of the all-consuming > > all-terrifying tyrannical American mob. Other countries don't have this > > mechanism. It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in > > that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our > > politicians in line. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > > > > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > > > > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > > > > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > > > > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > > > > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > > > > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. > > > > > > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > > > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > > > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > > > take 200 years for it to happen). > > > > > > Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the > > > United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:35:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <006d01c107ed$7fe8eea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Reponses inline: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:40 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > Reponses inline: > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I didn't say that. I said that if folks don't want to obey the existing laws, > > they should, within the existing legal framework, endeavor to change them, not > > simply disregard them. > > There are times when endeavoring to change a law is simply not enough. > Suppose that the law called for your execution for something that was out > of your control? Like the circumstances of your birth? How about forced > sterilization due to a genetic abnormality? What if the majority believes > in this? Without civil disobedience, our black friends would not be our > black friends. They would simply be the niggers living screwing up our > neighborhoods. There would still be acceptable scientific theories > regarding the genetic superiority of certain races. > I wonder if you're qualified to discuss this circumstance. As it happens, that was the practice in the country where I was born. > > > > Are you saying that the laws where you are currently make the penalties > > > for infractions and misdemeanors the same as the penalty for shooting > > > Dick? > > > > > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social > > contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, > > that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and > > have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. > > Some of the most grave injustices are social contracts that were forced on > people. Sometimes simply "leaving" is not an option. > Why not? That's how I happen to be here instead of there. > > > I said that you don't just step off a cliff on a whim, and, therefore, it's > > reasonble to assume that, since the outcome would be the same, you wouldn't spit > > on the sidewalk if the penalty for that were capital. It's not, of course, but, > > clearly, if everyone gets to choose which laws he/she obeys and which not, then > > we're all in trouble. > > But if you accidentally step off a cliff, you still die. Are you saying > that, through no fault of your own, if you break the law, you should be > executed? I cannot and will not subscribe to this idea. > So, you believe that because a guy who kills with his car because he "accidentally" consumed that line of coke or third joint, or fifteenth beer, should be let go? > > > Think about it! One guy thinks it's OK for him to spit on the sidewalk. > > Another thinks it's OK to drive 40 mph in that 25 mph zone. He can afford to > > pay the fine. Acceptance of that means that the guy with a 7-figure income > > basically can ignore the "lesser" laws that carry penalties he can afford to > > pay. > > That's why we have license revocation and demerit points. Do you think > millionaires *like* to pay fines? No way. Millionaires become > millionaires (outside of the inheritance case) by being thrift-wise. > ... and you figure this is working? > > > Now, another guy thinks it's OK to have a couple of extra drinks before he > > drives home from the bar. He figures it's worth the risk, and he can afford to > > pay the fines, and he can afford to hire a lawyer to minimize what he does have > > to pay. In most states there no significant additional penalty for being drunk > > and killing half a dozen people than simply for causing a wreck resulting in > > jnjury because he's drunk. Is that the right way? Should he be able to make > > the choices resulting in the deaths of several people just because he can pay > > the fines and pay the lawyers? Should we tolerate that he do it again? How > > does that differ from the guy who gets drunk and shoots his neighbor in an > > argument? What about the guy who shoots his neighbor in an argument, but > > doesn't get drunk first? What if there was no argument first. What if he just > > sneaks up on the guy and shoots him? What if he does it in order to rob the > > guy? > > Well, ideally, the public defender should be the best attorney in the lot. > Ideally. > > > > What color is the sky there? > > > > > Same as where you are, but I'm really tired of folks ingoring the "minor" laws > > we, as a society, have put in place in order to make the community safer and > > more liveable, only to have some jerk who feels he's more important than the > > rest of us go off and do somethng that puts us, our safety, and our peace of > > mind at risk. The business with the illegal fireworks that everybody views with > > a blind eye seems a good example. Another one would be the really loud car > > stereo. > > You are aware that most of these "really loud stereos" don't violate noise > ordinance right? Even the ones with 4 12-inchers in a three-way bandpass. > You advocate communism. Everyone is the most important. That is what it > means to live in America. Move to Cuba. Or bettter yet, move to China. > Communism is a socioeconomic system not a legal structure. You are running out of logic, because you've, so far, refused to consider what I've said. I've suggested a single way, not necessarily the best, or even right, way, but a way which would get the job done. There have been lots of idle and thoughtless whines, but no positive contstructs put forth. It all started with someone's mention of how much fun it is to set of illegal fireworks. I simply mentioned that because people do that, I have to spend my 4th of July evening at home so I can put out the small fires on my roof and in my shrubbery because others don't obey the laws. > > > What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some > > people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it > > themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. > > That is why I say that you value the society over its members. Let me say > that I don't completely disagree with you. It is just that it is not the > American way. Period. > That's not what they claim, though. It's said that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Your comment has nothing to do with the American way ... it's just YOUR way you're concerned about. > > Peace... Sridhar > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:40:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <007e01c107ee$31173560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, actually, you're wrong, in those two cases. A quick review of history will reveal that neither found his way to power that way. However, leaders like George-I, a mental midget by comparison with his predecessor Ronald R, Billary, and George-II, AKA DUBYA, came to power from the total lack of responsibility of the voting public. You don't suppose they're getting what they deserve? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > This is the kind of mentality that allowed demagogues like Hitler and > Stalin to flourish. > > (I didn't think you were serious, but I still had to respond.) > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what > > > are we going to do about it? > > > > Ah, the solutions to that are very simple, and would result in > > more land being available for future generations: > > > > 1. Implement a child tax for people with more than two children and > > stop giving people tax breaks for having children. Give people tax > > breaks for not having children. > > 2. Do away with religions dogma that makes people believe that it's ok > > to go forth and multiply like rabits, flies, etc. > > 3. Intitute a ban on the building of new houses, unless for the purpose of > > replacement. Ban the building of business parks and other such commercial > > development that's destroying the woodlands and farms that we have left. > > Halt all new road construction. > > 4. Reduce immigration by at least 95 percent. > > 5. Spay and geld all illegal immigrants; then send them back home. > > > > and... > > > > 6. Have a revolution and then elect me to be the king. If elected, I > > promise that hacking shall be encouraged and promoted, and that PERQs, > > PDP-11/45s --- or at least blinken-light equipped, faster, > > and modern pseudo-equivalents of them, valved radios, audio amplifiers > > and large automobiles shall be manufactured in plentiful supply. > > ...and in addition, I'll not tax farm land. :-) > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:42:32 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <008601c107ee$832a8fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> As I said before, it's the same as it is for me dropping a couple of rounds through your ear. That by itself is, AFAIK, the only reason you're alive today, though I figure it wouldn't be worth even the price of the bullets to me. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. > > I simply expect others to do that too. > > What's the penalty for kicking you square in the nuts? I'll gladly pay > it. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:46:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? References: Message-ID: <008c01c107ef$04b60360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The FOO is right, folks, even fancy MAC's and the occasional LISA don't bring more than $25 in the Denver area thrift stores, and that's only if they're complete. The odd CPU or Monitor, or even CPU + mouse + keyboard won't bring much more than $5 if it's been opened. The sit for weeks with pricetags of $15 on them and end up in the dumpster. I think the requirement nowadays is for complete and working. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: RE: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. > > > > You underestimate the amount of stupid people who bid there, but with > > the decline in the value of stock options, people aren't buying as > > many overpriced vintage computers as they used to, I'd wager; at least > > not for as much as they used to. > > Exactly. The vintage computer market peaked a year ago, about the time > the stock market tanked and all the paper value that instigated $3,000 > Altairs and IMSAIs went "poof". > > > Still, I do agree. Working Lisa/MacXLs are going for $400-$500 or so. > > I still think that's a bit inflated. > > > I was going to go by tomorrow on the last day of the sale and a) see > > if it's still there, and b) offer him the $50 and see if he takes it. > > If he won't budge, I'm not going to give him what he asks. > > Good! Hold strong! :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:49:11 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas References: <007301c107d3$bf14f480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <009e01c107ef$71127de0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You don't have to go to Indonesia for that sort of thing. We had a famous case here in Colorado regarding the practice of seizing personal assets of suspected drug dealers that I'll detail if anybody is interested in that sort of thing. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:30 AM Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The > > politicians in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. > > Agree. I studied Indonesia since I had a crush for one of its > expats and found this neat story: > > You're running a small business and on one day the liscenced > Air Conditioner inspector comes by and does his thing, then, > a few days later the Gvt Narcotics Police come by and "discover" > a small stash planted in guess where? That's Corruption. > BTW they just rotated their prime minister so there's some progress. > > John A. > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:50:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000b01c10765$8ffb7fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20010708174029.18356@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00a401c107ef$9a531980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> BOY! That would take a helluva large cupola of molten iron, wouldn't it? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Owad" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > The Arkansas legislature passed a law that states that the Arkansas > > River can rise no higher than to the Main Street bridge in Little > > Rock. > > Has it obeyed? > > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:52:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) References: Message-ID: <00aa01c107ef$e6d54800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you were using Outlook Express, you could expunge the titles you don't anticipate reading with a little "Mail Rule" that would erase it as it comes in. Too bad one can't just skip the things. If I didn't have to read 'em as they come in, I wouldn't have to respond ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Jay West" Cc: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (enough already) > > On 09-Jul-2001 Jay West wrote: > > Ok, I'll be the first to beg - can we end this thread on politics and > > get back to classic computers? > > Hear hear! Deleting all this crap each time i download my mail is > annoying and time-wasting. > > -Philip > > From MTPro at aol.com Sun Jul 8 15:59:44 2001 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! Message-ID: <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> Be considerate, then reflect on your OT views. I am sick and tired of this BS! Knock it off. HELLO, anybody monitoring this mess?! Enough, start kicking people off already. And please everyone, stop quoting super long lines of previous messages. Are you too lazy to just keep it short for basic reference. If you must discuss politics, religion, etc. then do it by personal e-mail unless you are just strutting yourself online. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 16:07:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) References: Message-ID: <00b401c107f1$fd505e60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> A big part of the question would be whether the devices failed permanently, or just failed in that particular application. Hard failures with respect to address lines were common, and there were popularly distributed memory tests just for that sort of failure. I often ran into failures, not only with 2114's but in general, that didn't persist in a given device, and where replacement with another new or presumed healthy device would, eventually produce the same failure mode. I didn't attribute this sort of thing to device failure, however. It's pretty easy to develop the opinion that this device or that is more prone to failure than some other. I was convinced for a time that 'LS244's had an abnormally high failure risk associated with them, likewise, 1489's. However, it's often the way in which they're used, in these examples, certainly, that makes the difference, as both devices were often used in connection with external cables and equipment. Have you any examples of how you determined that there was an addressing failure? Was an address input shorted to some other line or supply on the 2114? I've seen that sort of thing happen with other memory devices, so it's certainly conceivable with these as well. The main problems I've run into myself have related to address-setup-to-nWE and data-valid-to-nWE rising edge, as well as write-data hold times, (often violated with 6502 and 68xx processors, BTW) which clearly is an application error and not a device failure. The relationship between nCS, nOE, and nWE to the settling of addresses and data can be pretty touchy in tightly timed circuits such as those used for sharing memory between a microprocessor and a video refresh logic set. That was one pretty common application in which I saw them fall down. I bought a bunch of Intersil 7114-HCC types (70 ns, so, MUCH faster than was normally required of 2114's) just to prove that a circuit was badly designed for the desired memory speed (memory speed determined cost, and cost targets were often paramount). The problems often went away with the faster RAM. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) > > > > While 2114's weren't the only common I/O SRAMs, they were the first in really > > separate data in and out. > > > > As for failures, I don't remember lots of trouble with them. I suspect that > > they were easier to use, and hence, less prone to misuse, in systems with a > > single write line rather than a write and a read, however. > > I don't think the problems I've exeprienced with 2114s are due to misuse. > For one thing, the chips worked fine for several years (i.e. they didn't > fail a few minutes/hours after swtich-on). The replacements also worked fine. > > Most of the faults I've had have been addressing errors. One address line > does nothing (so data written to 1 location shows up somewhere else). I > can accept that violating the timing specs could cause > contention between the output buffers in the 2114 and system data bus > drivers. But if it did any damage, it would most likely cook one of the > data output buffers in the 2114. Not an address input. > > -tony > > From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 8 16:11:59 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions References: <200107081906.f68J6Hk24430@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <004301c107f2$bebe30e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Eric said: > A VAXstation 3100 can run versions of OpenVMS later than 5.4. I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, but no uV3100. John A. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 16:18:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3B48ADBD.BD60AB40@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00c001c107f3$7ff38e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The energy problem is the result of too much government meddling in the market, through overt and covert subsidy of one industry or another. I could tolerate $10 per gallon gasoline if I didn't have to pay to make gas cheaper for others, and then pay out over half my income in taxes of one sort or another. If the GOV wouldn't let public land be used at ridiculously low cost to the oil/coal/lumber...(whatever)... industries, and wouldn't subsidize those industries through depletion allowances and things of that ilk, then we'd pay more for gasoline and possibly other forms of energy as we consume it, thereby making excessive consumption less transparent to us. We'd ultimately pay the same, though, but we'd be more aware of its cost, which might have effect on our behavior. We'd just pay with dollars with somewhat less taken out in the form of taxes earmarked for those subsidies. Likewise, if they'd stop taxing income (production) and tax consumption instead, we'd pay more for our butter, but it would be with untaxed dollars. Of course the GOV wouldn't get its rake off the top. Also, you can bet Detroit would build more efficient cars if folks had to pay $10 for a gallon of gas, even if it were with tax-free dollars. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 1:00 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > Joe, > > I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > undersize. They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > appropriate updates on the power system. > > Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > It is part of a longer range solution. Drilling in new locations is > something a lot of countries are doing. Drilling in the North Sea is > being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. Something might > have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > joe wrote: > > Is that the same energy crisis that the oil industry keeps saying is > > being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones > > of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how > > drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery > > capacity! > > > > Joe > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 16:19:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas References: Message-ID: <00c801c107f3$ac8306c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's like saying, "I don't worry about the causes. I just complain about the effects." Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 2:31 PM Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > I didn't make any observations about the corruption of the populace > here. Only the politicians. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's not the politicians that are corrupt. It's the citizens who don't hold up > > their end of the social contract. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Vance Dereksen" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:19 AM > > Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > > > > > > > > > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The politicians > > > in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Take Russia or > > > India. There's corruption. This is nothing. The "corruption" here is > > > basically the small amount that gets past the radar of the all-consuming > > > all-terrifying tyrannical American mob. Other countries don't have this > > > mechanism. It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in > > > that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our > > > politicians in line. > > > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > > > > > > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > > > > > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > > > > > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > > > > > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > > > > > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > > > > > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. > > > > > > > > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > > > > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > > > > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > > > > take 200 years for it to happen). > > > > > > > > Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the > > > > United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? > > > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Jul 8 16:22:40 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: <006101c107ea$8c5050a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I'm sorry, but I gotta respond to this one before stuffing 'Richard Erlacher' into my procmail black-hole... Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's not the politicians that are corrupt. It's the citizens who don't hold up > their end of the social contract. I've seen you use the phrase 'social contract' more than a dozen times in this thread, and am left with no option but to conclude that _you_ don't understand "the" social contract. Society doesn't value individuals based on how well they conform to the law. It values them on their contribution to society. One can have a separate debate on how to valuate such contributions, but the fact that seems to both be eluding you and the source of your frustration is this: society is self promoting and not willing to shoot itself in the foot simply to stand on principle. To illustrate this, I'll take the case of the prototypical "pot smoker" that you've held out as an example of someone flaunting the law. The US government is quite happy to extend TS clearances to people who have been arrested for crimes related to use, possession and cultivation -- even if they are _still_ using controlled substances -- as long as they admit to it. Why? Because the individuals have something that society -- as personified by government -- values highly, and as long as the individual admits to it -- and thus removes it as a possible source of blackmail -- society doesn't care. The NSA requires "lifestyle" questions on polygraph examinations, but on more than one occasion has backed down when a candidate told them to pound sand -- it turns out that "society" values the contribution of cryptomathmaticians far above conformance with the law. Where those curves cross is a direction function of the perceived contribution of the individual. Does this result in unequal administration of justice? Yes. Does that result in the infringement of the rights of others? No. There's no enumerated right in the constitution requiring that just because you might be prosecuted for a crime someone else must also be so prosecuted. This flexibility allows society to, in effect, optimize the risk that an individual poses to society against the reward that they present to society. Even if one were to create a highly inflexible and intolerant judicial system, where the responsibility of the defendant at trial (assuming there _is_ a trial) is to prove their innocence, and wherein even the most petty crimes resulted in death, "society" would still make exceptions -- no society can afford to place itself at a competitive disadvantage relative to other societies for any significant length of time. In another attempt to drag this back on topic, does anyone know where lift gate trucks can be rented in the south bay? Ideally for a one-way rental with drop-off in Sac or Reno? Sheesh, Chris. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 16:35:08 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <004301c107f2$bebe30e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200107081906.f68J6Hk24430@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708142703.03092270@209.185.79.193> At 05:11 PM 7/8/01 -0400, John wrote: >I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, >but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why >have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" >when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ >fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, >but no uV3100. No, this reflects a very interesting/troubling time for DEC and a situation that pervades the computer 'biz even today. "How do we get the most money out of the software?" Which is the fundamental question. So it started with "Mainframes" and time shared systems. One big system, hundreds of thousands of dollars, can only be afforded by sharing time on it with several people. When you paid $500,000 for a computer you didn't bat an eye at paying $30,000 to license the software that let you run it as a time share system. Now technology relentlessly marches forward and you can "create" this time sharing architecture in a "single user" machine. No way you're going to get $30,000 for software for that machine, so you dress it up for the end-user (leave out serverish things, add a frame buffer) and call that a VAXStation. But wait, its actually just a VAX underneath and maybe you can capture a few bucks by selling it to people who _want_ a time share system, but they don't have a machine room. Now we'll call that a "MicroVAX". Same hardware, different target, different name, and more importantly, software for the MicroVAX was _much_ more expensive than software for a VAXStation since it was for multiple users. It used to be that people found this out the hard way when they removed the frame buffer cards and suddenly the OS believes its on a MicroVAX rather than a VAXStation and the license PAKs all refuse to work. So the only difference between a MicroVAX 3100 and a VAXStation 3100 is that the ROM of the latter complains when there is no frame buffer :-) You can run them both headless or with heads, both will run VMS 7.2 (the latest), and both will run NetBSD 1.5 (also the latest). The Hobbyist licenses (currently screwed up at the moment) work in either mode. --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 8 16:56:45 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement... In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: Way too much computer stuff in my basement..." (Jul 8, 12:27) References: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> <5.0.0.25.2.20010708122614.024a22e0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <10107082256.ZM1053@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 12:27, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 01:48 PM 7/8/01 +0200, stefan wrote: > >You could try my site where I have an "Old Computer Market" where anybody > >can post there adds completely for free. Check it out at > >http://www.oldcomputercollection.com and select "Old Computer Market". > When I try to read these pages the text is totally obscured on the left > hand side by some weird dark blue graphic! > Oh, never mind its an "Internet Exploder Only" site ... It works fine for Netscape on my IRIX machines (with JavaScript and style sheets off). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 8 16:56:46 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Celebration (enough already)" (Jul 8, 14:52) References: <00aa01c107ef$e6d54800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10107082256.ZM1057@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 14:52, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If you were using Outlook Express, you could expunge the titles you don't > anticipate reading with a little "Mail Rule" that would erase it as it comes in. > Too bad one can't just skip the things. If I didn't have to read 'em as they > come in, I wouldn't have to respond ... Richard, please take this elsewhere. You seem to be the one prolonging the agony even if you didn't start it. You've made your point, and only the insecure and childish have to respond every time. Try respecting your own social contract, or at least the part of that pertains to the list charter. I'm tired of downloading dozens of messages that have no place here and in case you haven't noticed, lots of people on the list use dialup lines, lots don't use Outlook, and writing little "Mail Rules" wouldn't save the download time anyway. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From als at thangorodrim.de Sun Jul 8 16:58:30 2001 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 10:34:48AM -0600 References: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010708235830.D21193@frodo> On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 10:34:48AM -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Never touch the stuff! > > It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate of > immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced a death-wish > as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. by spitting on the > sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of people, with a written > apology issued in the unlikely even that someone unjustly punished complain > because their rights have been violated. It's got to be like violating a law, > any law, is equivalent to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. > I've considered that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten > iron be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass > murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the chance to > enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. Have you taken even one minute to think about this? Mandating the death penalty for spitting on the sidewalk? This fucked up idea can happily result in _major_ violence: - guy spits on sidewalk, - police man spots him, tries to arrest him (to send him off to the executioner) - guy realizes that his now in for death anyway, so things _can't_ possible get any worse. - guys just kills the police man - guy decides to at least have some fun before he is catched and killed - guy steals really big truck, lots of barrels full of fertilizer and some fuel oil (anybody saying ANFO?) some sticks of dynamite, blasting caps ... - guys drives directly into big government building and sets up his 10 ton ANFO bomb Mandating extreme punishment for even small misdemeanours simply promotes extreme escalation of violence for the simple reason that whatever you do _then_ - your punishment _can't_ get any harder (hey, you can only die once) so you might as well have some fun / do lots of damage to those trying to kill you. Modern law has generally accepted the idea that the punishment should match the crime (i.e.: steal a candy bar - pay for it and do some hours of community work, kill a person - off to the executioner with you (in some countries) or behind bars for a very long time). Regards, Alex. -- We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being increasingly capable. -- Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs From jimdavis at gorge.net Sun Jul 8 17:23:46 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! References: <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> Bwahahaha, This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. Piss off AOL boy. MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > Be considerate, then reflect on your OT views. I am sick and tired of this > BS! Knock it off. HELLO, anybody monitoring this mess?! Enough, start kicking > people off already. And please everyone, stop quoting super long lines of > previous messages. Are you too lazy to just keep it short for basic > reference. If you must discuss politics, religion, etc. then do it by > personal e-mail unless you are just strutting yourself online. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 8 13:15:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 8, 1 05:23:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010708/947be95b/attachment.ksh From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 8 17:51:17 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! References: <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> Message-ID: <000d01c10800$81020520$88f8fea9@98box> I must agree... from what i have seen in my little time on this list, this group is all about off-topic posting and arguments...... sorta like USENET. If someone wants to post OT, then why not? No substitute for someone who uses AOL though. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Davis To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! > Bwahahaha, > This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and > office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. > > Piss off AOL boy. > > MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > > > Be considerate, then reflect on your OT views. I am sick and tired of this > > BS! Knock it off. HELLO, anybody monitoring this mess?! Enough, start kicking > > people off already. And please everyone, stop quoting super long lines of > > previous messages. Are you too lazy to just keep it short for basic > > reference. If you must discuss politics, religion, etc. then do it by > > personal e-mail unless you are just strutting yourself online. From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Jul 8 18:01:53 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) In-Reply-To: <00d601c10837$33aec600$858953d1@jay> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010708185736.00a72700@mail.wincom.net> At 12:22 AM 09/07/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Ok, I'll be the first to beg - can we end this thread on politics and get >back to classic computers? > >Jay West My abject apologies for starting the thread. I didn't think it would get out of hand. Regarding the War of 1812, I just saw on Detroit TV that they are celebrating the anniversary of the date that we gave it back. Probably the smartest thing we ever did. I do wish your side had held on to Toronto when you had it. Cheers Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Jul 8 18:17:46 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <004301c107f2$bebe30e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: A VS3100 isn't a "crippled" version of the hardware, but you wouldn't want multiple users slowing down your graphics updates. So DEC decided to market a VS3100 as a single user system where the full CPU power was available for graphics intensive applications, and the uVAX3100 as a multi-user machine. You CAN install a multi user VMS license pak on a VS3100 and have more than one person log in. DEC did offer a crippled version of the uVAX II (Or was it a VSII/GPX?), that had most of the expansion slots filled with epoxy to prevent upgrades. This was sold at a steep discount, but there was a run on replacement uVAX II qbus backplanes and the line was discontinued... Clint On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > Eric said: > > A VAXstation 3100 can run versions of OpenVMS later than 5.4. > > I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, > but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why > have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" > when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ > fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, > but no uV3100. > > John A. > > > From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 19:04:20 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708142703.03092270@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 08, 2001 02:35:08 PM Message-ID: <200107090004.f6904LZ25357@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Now technology relentlessly marches forward and you can "create" this time > sharing architecture in a "single user" machine. No way you're going to get > $30,000 for software for that machine, so you dress it up for the end-user > (leave out serverish things, add a frame buffer) and call that a VAXStation. > > But wait, its actually just a VAX underneath and maybe you can capture a > few bucks by selling it to people who _want_ a time share system, but they > don't have a machine room. Now we'll call that a "MicroVAX". > > Same hardware, different target, different name, and more importantly, > software for the MicroVAX was _much_ more expensive than software for a > VAXStation since it was for multiple users. There are hardware differences. Different bus, different design with different RAM addressing limits, different cache, etc. > It used to be that people found this out the hard way when they removed the > frame buffer cards and suddenly the OS believes its on a MicroVAX rather > than a VAXStation and the license PAKs all refuse to work. > > So the only difference between a MicroVAX 3100 and a VAXStation 3100 is > that the ROM of the latter complains when there is no frame buffer :-) Not quite. The MicroVAX 3100 and the VAXstation 3100 are completely different beasts. I have examples of both. The VS3100 has a frame buffer built-in to the motherboard, but you can change S3 to make the printer port the console port and run headless, and VMS won't complain, but you'll still have the same user limits as you would with the frame buffer. The MV3100 has extra serial ports and there isn't a built-in frame buffer and no connector to add one. When you pull the frame buffer from a VAXstation II it becomes a MicroVAX II. The VS3100 is still a VS3100 when you use a serial console. A VAXserver 3100 is a MicroVAX 3100 with different ROMs so it will by default only run a couple of local users (but that can be changed with the appropriate licenses). > You can run them both headless or with heads, both will run VMS 7.2 (the > latest), and both will run NetBSD 1.5 (also the latest). The Hobbyist > licenses (currently screwed up at the moment) work in either mode. V7.3 is the latest for the MicroVAX 3100. I'm not sure whether support for the VAXstation stopped at V7.2 or not (it isn't in the SPD). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From r.stek at snet.net Sun Jul 8 19:08:23 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: VCF East - item sales Message-ID: <000601c1080b$45034830$0301a8c0@bob> Sellam - I will be bringing some stuff to sell with me at the VCF. But with manning my booth, listening to speakers, and nosing around, I figured that I wouldn't have time to also sell stuff. So to support your efforts I thought I would just let VCF sell my stuff and take its percentage. But, to make things interesting (and to make up for bad karma earned by buying and selling on ebay), would you consider letting sellers do reverse auctions? E.g., between 9 and 12, item's price is $40, between 12 and 3 it's $30, and after 3 PM it's $20. Each seller could have a sheet of prices and times taped to items so it shouldn't impose any additional burden on your folks doing the selling. It would add a little incentive for folks to come back often in hopes of getting a better deal. And it would allow those of us with limited space to get at least a minimum amount so we don't have to truck it back home! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 19:31:17 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: BA440 Backplane Message-ID: <200107090031.f690VHL25454@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone have the part numbers for the new and old BA440 backplanes? If so, is "5019353-01 K2P1 54-19354" a new or old backplane? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 8 08:06:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1226.589T350T8464287optimus@canit.se> John Rollins skrev: >>You don't even need any particular tools, contrary >>to popular belief. Just a nice flat screwdriver, preferably a long one, >Actually, you do need a nice long Torx-15. Gotta be skinny to get the >screws underneath the handle on top. You don't really need one of >these cracker deals, I've never had a problem gently pulling back and >forth on the case to get it loose, although something to pry with >that won't mar the case is always handy and gets things going a >little faster. As I said, you don't need any fancy Torx drivers, just a preoperly dimensioned flat one and some patience. That's how I've opened the majority of my Macs up. >Glad I have an EN-SC, though. Don't have the network setup yet, but >I've got everything I need except the Cat5 cable. I think the Mac >drivers are still online. Hope I still have mine around... I believe mine has self-ignited, because it smells a bit and the installation software just hangs when it's plugged in. Now it's gained a useful purpose as an intermediary in the usergroup SCSI chain, alleviating the shortage of CEN50-CEN50 cables. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 8 18:03:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <00b401c107f1$fd505e60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 8, 1 03:07:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/45dd0943/attachment.ksh From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 20:21:22 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas References: <200106301633.f5UGXXh23101@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3B3E05B9.93FB73C2@texoma.net> Message-ID: <3B490712.3AB5510F@greenbelt.com> I actually found Software Etc.!! It was only a few miles from where I was staying. I have family in Plano, and my bro-in-law asked me what a good laptop for him would be. We went to Software Etc. Then another bro-in-law was putting together a system for his son. We ended up back at Software Etc. for a second time. Being a used book store to boot also made that place my kind of store in a doubly sort of way. Eric "James L. Rice" wrote: > There is a surplus consignment store in Allen, a suburb, that has a lot > of pc oriented stuff. The name of the store is Software Etc. and it's > on the corner of Greenville and Bethany. The sometimes get big iron > and workstation stuff. They had some SGI Indy and Sun stuff a couple of > weeks ago. > > James > > Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Anyone know of anything of interest in the Dallas, Texas are related to > > > vintage/classic computer stuff? I'll be there over the week of July 4th. > > > But I'm STILL trying to find away > > > to get to Boston area at the end of the month (VCF East), vacation hours > > > permitting. > > > > > > Anyway, any help with info about Big D and classic computers > > > appreciated. > > > > If you are going to be there next Saturday the First Saturday event > > will have a bit. > > -- > > Eric Dittman > > dittman@dittman.net From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 20:30:20 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas References: <200106302221.f5UMLxb23888@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Eric Dittman wrote: > > There is a surplus consignment store in Allen, a suburb, that has a lot > > of pc oriented stuff. The name of the store is Software Etc. and it's > > on the corner of Greenville and Bethany. The sometimes get big iron > > and workstation stuff. They had some SGI Indy and Sun stuff a couple of > > weeks ago. > > I posted about the SGI stuff here last week. They've still got two > of the Indys as of Thursday night. I didn't mention them as they > rarely have anything other than PC or Mac stuff. They are gone now! I was there on Thursday and saw them. By Saturday they were gone... Hey I picked up a pair of Apple II 5 1/4" floppy disk drives, with the black face and Apple logo for a $1 each at Software Etc. That was my big find other than an HP-12C at a garage sale $1. Those Planolians LOVE their garage sales and my extended family is no exception. The calculator works like a charm. Eric > > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 20:39:14 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 8, 1 05:23:03 am Message-ID: >Given that you've swapped out the analogue board, I think we can assume >the CRT voltages (and especially the EHT) are correct. I'd probably >measure them just to be sure (compare them against a working machine), >but you probably don't have an EHT voltmeter. WHAT! Excuse me, I have a Simpson VTVM with the high voltage probe. (someplace, sigh, someplace IN my office, double sigh). >This does sound like CRT problems, alas. Either the CRT is 'soft' (got >air in it -- any sign of blueish or purple glow around the electron gun > >Most likely, though, you need a new CRT. I left a good tube (I am pretty sure) at the boneyard when I grabbed the analog board I used for a swap, so Tuesday I'll bring it home. Sheesh I hate that, item open on my kitchen table, problem known, but my choice is either to wait a few days, or steal the part from a different (in this case MUCH less valuable) working system I have setting around. From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 20:42:26 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration References: Message-ID: <3B490C02.F2DCD34E@greenbelt.com> Wait, I thought it went something like this, "with THAT attitude, you will hardly qualify as the 51st state." Fill in the country of your choice. Eric Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. > > Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 20:49:43 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010702085521.00a86a00@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B490DB7.15227530@greenbelt.com> joe wrote: > At 10:48 AM 7/1/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: > >On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > > > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > > > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > > > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > > > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. > > > >Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. > > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the > 52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) > I really think it depends on their respective attitudes. :) Eric > > Joe > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 20:48:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: <1226.589T350T8464287optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >>>You don't even need any particular tools, contrary >>>to popular belief. Just a nice flat screwdriver, preferably a long one, > >>Actually, you do need a nice long Torx-15. Gotta be skinny to get the > >As I said, you don't need any fancy Torx drivers, just a preoperly dimensioned >flat one and some patience. That's how I've opened the majority of my Macs up. I use a pocket two ended phillips/blade screwdriver and the blade is tapered and narrow enough to wedge in the Torx screw and open just about any I have found so far. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jul 8 20:49:12 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: <51.df8a3f6.287a6798@aol.com> I didnt start the thread about the 4th of july and you're still talking about NON CLASSIC COMPUTER CRAP. for goodness sakes, take it alt.sociology.whine.whine.whine PLEASE! In a message dated 7/8/01 4:22:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick@idcomm.com writes: << Well, SUPRDAVE, what was the topic? How relevant was a discussion of fireworks and 4th of July party practices to "classic computers?" Who started this thing, anyway. I know I didn't. >> -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 20:50:47 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas In-Reply-To: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Jul 08, 2001 09:30:20 PM Message-ID: <200107090150.f691olJ25812@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > There is a surplus consignment store in Allen, a suburb, that has a lot > > > of pc oriented stuff. The name of the store is Software Etc. and it's > > > on the corner of Greenville and Bethany. The sometimes get big iron > > > and workstation stuff. They had some SGI Indy and Sun stuff a couple of > > > weeks ago. > > > > I posted about the SGI stuff here last week. They've still got two > > of the Indys as of Thursday night. I didn't mention them as they > > rarely have anything other than PC or Mac stuff. > > They are gone now! I was there on Thursday and saw them. By Saturday they > were gone... I was in there on Saturday and heard someone make that comment. Could that have been you? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From geoffr at zipcon.com Sun Jul 8 20:59:34 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.com (geoffr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: Wht is one worth? (roughly) From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 8 21:03:53 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: SGI Indy2 (geoffr) References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <15177.4361.702531.543145@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 8, geoffr wrote: > Wht is one worth? (roughly) Indy2? No such thing. You probably mean either Indy or Indigo2. Very different machines. Anywhere from $100 to $1000 depending on specific model, processor, memory, and video system. -Dave McGuire From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 8 21:48:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: COPY 190 Message-ID: <1770.590T2950T2287015optimus@canit.se> A month or so ago, we were given a large load of Commodore things - a C64, 2?1541-II, CP/M cartridge, mouse, GEOS, complete collection of "?tta bitar" magazines, and games, lots of games. Today I thought I'd try to transfer some games to disks, since I don't have any good experiences with cassettes, though this was my first encounter with turbo tapes, which do not require as much patience. Anyway, I first had some luck with smaller games (turbo games occupying about 20 blocks), which could just be loaded and then saved to disk. Others were simply too large for the BASIC and any results at SAVEing resulted in out of memory errors. Then we found a program called COPY 190 on one of the tapes. It looked very promising, presenting the user with a menu allowing for transfers between tapes and disks in any direction. Only it seemed to have one serious bug: it didn't handle file names with spaces, and just about every file on the tapes had spaces in them. Has anyone got any experience with this program or any tips? I first select "tape to disk", then the program prompts for a filename. Entering ARCHON works fine. It asks whether the tape uses a turbo, which it does, and then it waits for the tape to start. Then it finds ARCHON, which has no spaces in it, loads it into memory and writes it to the floppy. However, if I instead enter the name ARMY MOVES or "ARMY MOVES", it will find ARMY MOVES and load, then it will find the following file and load that one, and so on, without ever saving to floppy. Very frustrating. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Zeit kommt aus der Zukunft, die nicht existiert, in die Gegenwart, die keine Dauer hat, und geht in die Vergangenheit, die aufgeh?rt hat, zu bestehen. --- Augustinus (R?m. Kirchenlehrer, 354-430 n. Chr.) From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 8 21:52:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <004301c107f2$bebe30e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <976.590T1800T2325761optimus@canit.se> John Allain skrev: >Eric said: >> A VAXstation 3100 can run versions of OpenVMS later than 5.4. >I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, >but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why >have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" >when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ >fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, >but no uV3100. Anything -station is a single-user workstation with graphics (the very definition of a workstation), whereas anything micro- or -system is a multiuser system with several serial lines or network terminals. Neither is crippled, in the same way that neither a bike nor a lorry is crippled, they're just built for two different purposes though they both use wheels. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 8 21:18:20 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >Wht is one worth? (roughly) Depends if it is all there, including the OS, and the media for the OS. Still not a whole lot. Indy's are pretty slow. It's the Indigo2's that still have a surprising amount of value, but even they don't go for a whole lot (just more than I'm willing to pay for something that slow). BTW, is that an Indy2, or an Indigo2 you have? I didn't think there was an Indy2. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jul 8 21:19:21 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <976.590T1800T2325761optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 09, 2001 03:52:36 AM Message-ID: <200107090219.UAA13578@calico.litterbox.com> Also, when you have the graphical head enabled on a 3100, the licence manager can sense that and you can load workstation licences. Otherwise you have to load server licences. You can make a vaxstation into a vax (at least from the licence manager's point of view) by throwing one jumper and running the box headless. > >I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, > >but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why > >have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" > >when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ > >fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, > >but no uV3100. > > Anything -station is a single-user workstation with graphics (the very > definition of a workstation), whereas anything micro- or -system is a > multiuser system with several serial lines or network terminals. > Neither is crippled, in the same way that neither a bike nor a lorry is > crippled, they're just built for two different purposes though they both use > wheels. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er > weist? > --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 20:33:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <008601c107ee$832a8fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > As I said before, it's the same as it is for me dropping a couple of > rounds through your ear. That by itself is, AFAIK, the only reason > you're alive today, though I figure it wouldn't be worth even the > price of the bullets to me. Hey Dick, are you threatening to murder me with a gun, in a public message on a public forum? I'm certainly taking it as such. That's pretty brainless considering this highly litigious society we live in, don't you think? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 20:49:10 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: VCF East BBS Now Online! Message-ID: The VCF East BBS is now online. You can get to it here: http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/bbs.php It is also available as a link from the VCF East pages. You can use it to post items you will be bringing to the VCF, or items you are looking for, or perhaps to schedule car pools, etc. Enjoy! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 20:54:08 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: VCF East - item sales In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Bob Stek wrote: > I will be bringing some stuff to sell with me at the VCF. But with > manning my booth, listening to speakers, and nosing around, I figured > that I wouldn't have time to also sell stuff. So to support your > efforts I thought I would just let VCF sell my stuff and take its > percentage. The consignment area at the VCF is a great way to sell stuff. My crack staff of vintage computer sprites will handle all the details for you :) http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/vendor.php3#consignment > But, to make things interesting (and to make up for bad karma earned > by buying and selling on ebay), would you consider letting sellers do > reverse auctions? E.g., between 9 and 12, item's price is $40, > between 12 and 3 it's $30, and after 3 PM it's $20. Each seller could > have a sheet of prices and times taped to items so it shouldn't impose > any additional burden on your folks doing the selling. This can be handled already within the existing consignment system. The way it works now, you specify a price you'd like to sell the item for and the minimum you will take. Any offers on the item between the sticker price and the minimum price will be accepted on your behalf (this is all explained on the consignment form). I can add columns to the sheet to specify pricing changes at certain hours. Those wanting to use this system can be free to do so. Good suggestion! > It would add a little incentive for folks to come back often in hopes > of getting a better deal. And it would allow those of us with limited > space to get at least a minimum amount so we don't have to truck it > back home! You got it! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 21:57:23 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: Message-ID: <3B491D93.8798AE03@greenbelt.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > > > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > > > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > > > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > > > > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > > > > > > > Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, > > what for? Just curious. > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > for about 30 years. 30 years?!?! Err, 2001 - 30 = 1971. Now, I remember going to RS to see this computer because, being a Mot 6800 fan, I had to see this box with a 6809 in it. That was 1978 or 1979. Do you mean 21 years? Eric > > - don From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:00:48 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: Message-ID: <3B491E60.6D30BA7E@greenbelt.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > > for about 30 years. > > Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very > early preproduction prototype of the Coco. Yes, that begs the question: how old is X-10? CoCo's are 20+, but how old is X-10? Eric From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:03:38 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: The Computer Journal References: <200106270258.TAA24836@mail.telisphere.com> Message-ID: <3B491F0A.31E29B6A@greenbelt.com> Gene Buckle wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:22:49 -0700, Albert Lee Mitchell wrote: > > No intent to defraud? Could have fooled me! > >When TCJ was owned by Bill Kibler they processed our > >credit card transactions, we were only a few miles apart > >and both Forthies. After Dave Baldwin took over TCJ my > >cost went up so we discouraged credit card transactions > >and only took a few overseas or medium-sized. > > Wow. This is just TOO weird. I _just_ sent a message with that > EXACT subject asking what was up with TCJ and I noticed this message > right after I hit 'send'. > > *wanders off scratching his head* Newton and Liebnitz (sp) discover calculus at the same time? Where is Rod Serling when you need him?! Eric > > > g. > > -- Gene Buckle, geneb@deltasoft.com on 06/26/2001 From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:08:30 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: Message-ID: <3B49202E.8BAB2D8F@greenbelt.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > > > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > > > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > > > for about 30 years. > > > > Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very > > early preproduction prototype of the Coco. > > > > I think you are exactly right! These CP/M guys fooling around with CoCo's. I guess we can forgive you for a small mistake like that! :^) Eric > > - don From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:18:31 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B492287.861EE23B@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > > > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is > > called dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make > > beer... > > More importantly, they practically invented the concept of "Medicinal > Marijuana". We should replace Utah with Jamaica. What then would we do with Orrin Hatch, mon? Eric > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:20:13 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B4922EC.484F5106@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > > > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is > > called dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make > > beer... > > More importantly, they practically invented the concept of "Medicinal > Marijuana". We should replace Utah with Jamaica. Also, wouldn't reggae be a step up (or three) from the Osmonds in the music dept? Eric > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:23:50 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B4923C6.4A3F02E5@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > > > Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of > > Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by > > about ten years. > > Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. The students > open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely > spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I > apparently didn't learn much. Sounds like East Palo Alto or Compton. Eric > > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:25:44 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B492437.32514F21@greenbelt.com> And da music, rhythm and music, goes well with music - One Draw. Eric "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > And the weed, mon. They have the bestest weed... > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > > > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called > > dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... > > > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 22:29:35 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010709032935.37527.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Repost of message for Ethan... Thanks! Replacements in place. All I need now is a pinout of the power harness - I'm assuming that black is GND, red is +5 and orange is +12, but I'm going to verify it before I apply power. Oh... that and some slurping software for DOS or UNIX. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:39:20 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <3B492768.AAAC9B37@greenbelt.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what song > > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. > > Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled > in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. > > > It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. I wonder > if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of > Maryland. Not the inner harbor of Baltimore. Geez, I live here and have never been. I'm feeling ashamed and now will have to make a day trip of it. Ripken's last year in the big leagues and I'm feeling guilty about Ft. McHenry and having never seen it! > > > Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap > guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical > politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, > then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a > watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on > in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, > bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic > displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) > > Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; > we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South > Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West > Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the > border that were selling the fireworks. > Fireworks can legally be purchased in DC or VA. > > Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal > fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after > all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason > for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give > people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more > vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt > politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising > every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be > thunk by good little citizens, what? > You sound like a Texan misplaced in the libberal state of MD. Go west old man and be free... Eric > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:51:37 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <15171.37054.634559.948794@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3B492A49.5E6EC114@greenbelt.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 4, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate good > > sense." > > > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only industrialized > > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect those who are > > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from them. > > Yes, fighting Darwin all the way. I HATE that. Protect and coddle > the stupid so they can annoy the hell out of the rest of us, and > dilute the GOOD genes in the process. ARGH! Yes, it's called 'striving for mediocrity.' Eric > > > -Dave McGuire From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:55:01 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3B492B14.10D1E1C4@greenbelt.com> Geoff Roberts wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > good > > sense." > > No, but it doesn't stop the government from trying. > > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only > industrialized > > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect > those who are > > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from > them. > > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) Oops, I just came back from Texas, and they now have no helmet law. Used to have it and then didn't, but once did before that and will probably flip and then flop back once again. > > In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a > bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. > > Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth > of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be > doing something. Or reacting to the current whim. Eric > > > cheers > > Geoff in Oz From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 8 22:52:04 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 8, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Depends if it is all there, including the OS, and the media for the OS. > Still not a whole lot. Indy's are pretty slow. It's the Indigo2's that I've an Indy with a 200MHz R4400 that's anything but slow. Granted the majority of them have crappy R4000s or R4600s, but beefier R4400 or R5000 machines are around. -Dave McGuire From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 8 23:00:02 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI Message-ID: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Did anybody see this? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 It went for $305.00! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 23:03:33 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) References: <001901c104c4$f5f72340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010704234813.02d99ae0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B492D15.5D90AD8E@greenbelt.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > At 10:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Times have changed. > > No they haven't. Perhaps they have and haven't? Eric From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Jul 9 01:05:08 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) References: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <3B494994.7E22220F@kcinter.net> Hello Claude, You could try out Sellyouritem.com, a relatively new auction site that does have a catagory for classic electronics. Bill "Claude.W" wrote: > Hi all > > Some of you probably have seen some of my posts. > > I have given away a lot of computer stuff vintage and semi-vintage and > traded a lot. I have trashed a lot lately. > > I recent years, I have accumulated way too much computer stuff (mostly > vintage and semi-vintage) in my basement...I can only trade so much and > trades arent really helping with the "space issue"... > > I dont wanna junk it and can see most of it can be used...I have paid some > money for most of this... > > I have always "boycotted" ebay as both a seller and a buyer...now online > auctions look like the only way to unload quickly the tons of stuff I > have... Ill have to pack and ship but I was ready to give it a > shot....rather then junk tons of working computers...and related equip... > > I have now gotten "cold feet" from signing up as a seller on US ebay (with > good reason!) since now they ask for both credit card and complete checking > bank account info!!! (how bout my fingerprints and social security no...?) > > Thats way too much info too have "floating around on the net" for me...even > just giving my credit card is "unconfortable" for me... > > I can only imagine the ebay seller sign-ups going way down now...I know > there is a lotta fraud on ebay but this is not a good idea for ebay IMO... > > I have also heard horror stories like paypal fetching funds from sellers > bank accounts when stuff was undelivered or problems happened...gee... > > I could sign up for ebay canada, they only ask for credit card info (weird > hey?) but would not be able to have the stuff listed on the US ebay....I > have to open up a new account and given the bank account info to be on US > ebay.... > > So anybody with any good alternatives to ebay? > > Claude > http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 8 23:09:36 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Message-ID: >Did anybody see this? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > >It went for $305.00! > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA What's so surprising about that? That's *very* cheap!!! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 23:18:21 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Not a bad deal considering that it is effectively two SCSI controllers on one card (two UC07's) and re-sellers won't sell you one for less than $500. I've got a UC07 that is borderline "spare" (its doing duty in the 3500 but may get swapped with a Viking) --Chuck At 12:00 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >Did anybody see this? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > >It went for $305.00! > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Jul 8 23:13:14 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010708211246.02b58d70@mail.zipcon.net> all I know of is the 2 chassis, one is purpleish and one is greenish? if that makes any difference At 11:52 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: >On July 8, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Depends if it is all there, including the OS, and the media for the OS. > > Still not a whole lot. Indy's are pretty slow. It's the Indigo2's that > > I've an Indy with a 200MHz R4400 that's anything but slow. Granted >the majority of them have crappy R4000s or R4600s, but beefier R4400 >or R5000 machines are around. > > -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 8 23:21:05 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: Ended auction for qbus SCSI (Chad Fernandez) References: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15177.12593.26032.422677@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Did anybody see this? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > > It went for $305.00! Does this surprise you? -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 8 23:36:44 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >On July 8, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Depends if it is all there, including the OS, and the media for the OS. >> Still not a whole lot. Indy's are pretty slow. It's the Indigo2's that > > I've an Indy with a 200MHz R4400 that's anything but slow. Granted >the majority of them have crappy R4000s or R4600s, but beefier R4400 >or R5000 machines are around. > > -Dave McGuire The problem is your 200Mhz R4400 is only slightly faster than one SM71 which is a SuperSparc II running at 75Mhz. My Sparc 20 with Dual SM71's feels slow at times, mainly when doing web browsing or software compiles. I'd love to have an SGI box, but they're even more expensive than Sun's or DEC Alpha's. An even bigger problem for me is you can have a x86 box running Solaris 8 that will totally blow away any moderatly fast SGI or Sparc system and will likely cost a lot less. My Dual 400Mhz Celeron running Linux pretty blows away any of my other systems with the possible exception of my Mac, and my DEC PWS 433au. I think the real issue is, I don't like slow UNIX systems! In part because I tend to use them in a very GUI fashion with lots and lots of colours, and I like lightening fast response. Even worse, I must confess I run 'enlightenment' for my Windowmanager both at home and at work (though with rather toned down themes), although I do run CDE on the Sparc 20. The worst part of this whole thing is the main app I run is 'xterm' :^) Though I do tend to run *lots* of them. OK, does that last paragraph sound as strange as I think it does :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 8 23:44:48 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B4936C0.841B7CF1@internet1.net> Wow, I knew they were pricey, but I didn't know they were that expensive! I guess I should have asked about it. If I knew it was two cards in one, maybe I would have bid. I would very much like to put a scsi card into my MicroVax 3400. You say, "two scsi controllers on one card", so would that be the same as dual channel? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > > Not a bad deal considering that it is effectively two SCSI controllers on > one card (two UC07's) and re-sellers won't sell you one for less than $500. > I've got a UC07 that is borderline "spare" (its doing duty in the 3500 but > may get swapped with a Viking) > > --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 23:56:06 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215158.025c05d0@209.185.79.193> At 12:00 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >It (Emulex UC08-III) went for $305.00! Discount Computer Products has 9 in stock, $749 each. :-) I'm sure they will let them go for a bit less though. Its important to realize that Ebay here is actually _cheaper_ than you can buy them elsewhere and so its a "good thing" :-) --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jul 9 00:04:15 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B4936C0.841B7CF1@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215801.025c0480@209.185.79.193> At 12:44 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >Wow, I knew they were pricey, but I didn't know they were that >expensive! I guess I should have asked about it. If I knew it was two >cards in one, maybe I would have bid. I would very much like to put a >scsi card into my MicroVax 3400. > >You say, "two scsi controllers on one card", so would that be the same >as dual channel? Yes, Emulex didn't come out with a controller that could do both Disk devices (MSCP) and tape devices (TMSCP) on the same SCSI string as far as I can tell. Instead they took the UC07 (which will control either disk or tape but not both) and doubled it up. This particular version is the UC08-III which has the S-box handles, the UC08 (no suffix) just has dual 50 pin headers). They also sold a UC07 that was a dual wide card and a UC07 that was the same board as the UC08 only it was half populated. This was different that CMD (the other most popular SCSI controller for Qbus) with their CQD series which could, on some models, do both tape and scsi on the same string. In my order of desirability they go CQD-xxx (both disk and tape on one string UC07/8 SQ739 (Dilog's version of a card similar to the CMD card) VIK-QTD (Viking controller, a bit slower in my experience, harder to configure) There were others, Trimarchi, Standard MicroSystems, several rebadged Vikings, and CMS. But since DEC was pushing DSSI they really discouraged using SCSI controllers. :-) --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 00:03:18 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001d01c10834$77e1e8a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No, Sam, it's not a threat of murder, which you'd know if you'd learn to read. Literacy issues aside, however, up to a point it's interesting that you always stake out one extreme and I stake out another. I guess it's true that where you sit determines what you see. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > As I said before, it's the same as it is for me dropping a couple of > > rounds through your ear. That by itself is, AFAIK, the only reason > > you're alive today, though I figure it wouldn't be worth even the > > price of the bullets to me. > > Hey Dick, are you threatening to murder me with a gun, in a public message > on a public forum? I'm certainly taking it as such. > > That's pretty brainless considering this highly litigious society we live > in, don't you think? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 00:08:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <004f01c10835$23b8ff60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's about what we used to pay for the Emulex SCSI cards back in '86-'87. They were good boards! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:18 PM Subject: Re: Ended auction for qbus SCSI > Not a bad deal considering that it is effectively two SCSI controllers on > one card (two UC07's) and re-sellers won't sell you one for less than $500. > I've got a UC07 that is borderline "spare" (its doing duty in the 3500 but > may get swapped with a Viking) > > --Chuck > > At 12:00 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Did anybody see this? > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > > > >It went for $305.00! > > > >Chad Fernandez > >Michigan, USA > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 00:20:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215801.025c0480@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <006501c10836$e5c602a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> At Martin, we used an early Emulex single-channel board that was considered about the least costly. The original plan was to use it to talk to WORM drives with which we replaced the TK-50, but after we found that the MAXTOR 3380 (later called 4380S), which was $1k cheaper than the 4380E (ESDI) of which we were using two, together with an EMULEX ESDI (QBUS) board, which cost about $2300 or so, we decided we liked the all-SCSI solution. It outperformed the ESDI approach by quite a little too. Unfortunately, though several vendors claimed to have SCSI WORM drives, they were all one sort or another of "modified ESDI," which meant they were all different but not standard ESDI. Apparently Lockheed had spec'd a form of nonstandard ESDI for the flight data recorder on the F-16 and they owned a subsidiary (Cherokee Electronics) that built a WORM drive with that interface. Although nobody had one working properly at the time, everybody had a version. We had to build a SCSI<=>ESDI bridge in order to demonstrate the concept. Not being terribly easy to impress, particularly with DEC-systems, I have to admit, I was VERY impressed with the way in which the little EMULEX SCSI board outperformed their own ESDI board while cutting our rotating memory system cost by nearly half. Everybody talked about the 15Mbit transfer rate on the ESDI card, yet the SCSI, which, under exhaustive testing averaged about 250 KBps under MSCP outperformed the ESDI hands down. This suggests a really decent and feature-rich implementation of the SCSI extended command set, allowing for command queueing, operation overlaps, disconnect/reconnect, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:04 PM Subject: Re: Ended auction for qbus SCSI > At 12:44 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > >Wow, I knew they were pricey, but I didn't know they were that > >expensive! I guess I should have asked about it. If I knew it was two > >cards in one, maybe I would have bid. I would very much like to put a > >scsi card into my MicroVax 3400. > > > >You say, "two scsi controllers on one card", so would that be the same > >as dual channel? > > Yes, Emulex didn't come out with a controller that could do both Disk > devices (MSCP) and tape devices (TMSCP) on the same SCSI string as far as I > can tell. Instead they took the UC07 (which will control either disk or > tape but not both) and doubled it up. This particular version is the > UC08-III which has the S-box handles, the UC08 (no suffix) just has dual 50 > pin headers). They also sold a UC07 that was a dual wide card and a UC07 > that was the same board as the UC08 only it was half populated. > > This was different that CMD (the other most popular SCSI controller for > Qbus) with their CQD series which could, on some models, do both tape and > scsi on the same string. In my order of desirability they go > CQD-xxx (both disk and tape on one string > UC07/8 > SQ739 (Dilog's version of a card similar to the CMD card) > VIK-QTD (Viking controller, a bit slower in my experience, harder to > configure) > > There were others, Trimarchi, Standard MicroSystems, several rebadged > Vikings, and CMS. > But since DEC was pushing DSSI they really discouraged using SCSI > controllers. :-) > > --Chuck > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 9 00:24:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215801.025c0480@209.185.79.193> References: <3B4936C0.841B7CF1@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: > CQD-xxx (both disk and tape on one string > VIK-QTD (Viking controller, a bit slower in my experience, harder The CMD cards are probably the best, but I really like my Vikings. I've got two removable hard drive, a CD-ROM and a TZ30 on one in my PDP-11/73. It might not be as fast as a CMD board, but it's a solid reliable board. Of course if I ever get my hands on a CMD board, it'll be replacing the Viking in a heartbeat. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ncherry at home.com Mon Jul 9 00:35:36 2001 From: ncherry at home.com (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: <3B491E60.6D30BA7E@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3B4942A8.EC83EA35@home.com> Eric Chomko wrote: > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > > > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > > > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > > > for about 30 years. > > > > Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very > > early preproduction prototype of the Coco. > > Yes, that begs the question: how old is X-10? CoCo's are 20+, but how old is > X-10? > > Eric X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was in 1979. So it's a lot closer to 22 years old. Motorola had limited produced the 6809 in 78/79 (no where near '71). Wasn't this issue cleared up before? I think Don just missed a digit by one. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 01:06:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001d01c10834$77e1e8a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > No, Sam, it's not a threat of murder, which you'd know if you'd learn > to read. Would you like me to pass your e-mail message on to your local law enforcement and let them decide? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 02:28:03 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <15177.23811.335743.780909@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 8, Zane H. Healy wrote: > The problem is your 200Mhz R4400 is only slightly faster than one SM71 > which is a SuperSparc II running at 75Mhz. My Sparc 20 with Dual SM71's > feels slow at times, mainly when doing web browsing or software compiles. Hmm...you running Solaris on that SS20? That might explain it. ;) > I'd love to have an SGI box, but they're even more expensive than Sun's or > DEC Alpha's. An even bigger problem for me is you can have a x86 box > running Solaris 8 that will totally blow away any moderatly fast SGI or > Sparc system and will likely cost a lot less. My Dual 400Mhz Celeron > running Linux pretty blows away any of my other systems with the possible > exception of my Mac, and my DEC PWS 433au. Yeah, sure...until you try to do more than one thing at a time. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 02:30:14 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) (Neil Cherry) Message-ID: <15177.23942.846938.439218@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3B491E60.6D30BA7E@greenbelt.com> <3B4942A8.EC83EA35@home.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 8) "Bryce Canyon" XEmacs Lucid FCC: ~/Mail/sent-mail On July 9, Neil Cherry wrote: > X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was > in 1979. So it's a lot closer to 22 years old. Motorola had limited > produced the 6809 in 78/79 (no where near '71). Wasn't this issue > cleared up before? I think Don just missed a digit by one. X10 was originally marketed by BSR, if memory serves. -Dave McGuire From mauger at senet.com.au Mon Jul 9 03:49:14 2001 From: mauger at senet.com.au (Mauger Family) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail Message-ID: <006901c10854$08c83c60$581610ac@mauger> Hi, I'm interested in finding someone who might have experience in downloading data from an old NEC APC to a current Pentium machine. Alan Mauger mauger@senet.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/339d457d/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 9 05:31:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: HP Exemplar In-Reply-To: References: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: I am kinda curious, an HP Exemplar (with 16 processors, but not many drives) recently passed through a surplus joint I visit along with a jukebox for magnetoptical discs. Both gone now, did I miss something neat? From terryc at woa.com.au Mon Jul 9 06:02:05 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: HP Exemplar References: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3B498F2C.E97C66E@woa.com.au> Mike Ford wrote: > > I am kinda curious, an HP Exemplar (with 16 processors, but not many > drives) recently passed through a surplus joint I visit along with a > jukebox for magnetoptical discs. Both gone now, did I miss something neat? I don't know about the HP Exemplar, but the juke box is nothing special. In my experience they were very unreliable and dodgy. In years past, I've often had my dual cubicle filled with transport cases from HP support awaiting the engineer to spend a day or two trying to diagnose the latest fault. It would have been far quicker if they had wheeled in a replacement and swapped the 30 MO platters. Apparently the robotics were exceedingly flaky. I often throught they would have been great if they could have been adapted as a CDrom jukebox, but even in Oz, the economics of putting the CD contents onto hard disk soon took over. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 9 06:57:36 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: BA440 Backplane In-Reply-To: <200107090031.f690VHL25454@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200107091157.NAA06273@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 8 Jul, Eric Dittman wrote: [BA440 backplanes] > If so, is "5019353-01 K2P1 54-19354" a new or old > backplane? This must be the new one. I have a backplane with these numbers in my VAX 4000-300, that I successfully upgraded to a -400. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Jul 9 06:51:41 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: NEC-APC to PC In-Reply-To: <006901c10854$08c83c60$581610ac@mauger> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010709073509.00a563f0@mail.wincom.net> At 06:19 PM 09/07/2001 +0930, you wrote: >Hi, >I'm interested in finding someone who might have experience in downloading >data from an old NEC APC to a current Pentium machine. > >Alan Mauger >mauger@senet.com.au I can't say I have had experience in transferring data, but am working on it. We are running an APC through a null modem cable to a 386-SX. We have them talking to each other, but haven't gone any further due to other projects. We are using Modem86 on the APC and PCPlus on the 386. The APC uses a special cable and I will email the instructions if you need them. Is your data on MS-DOS or CP/M? Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 07:25:20 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <3B492B14.10D1E1C4@greenbelt.com> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709082227.00abb8d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:55 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: >Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > > good > > > sense." > > > > No, but it doesn't stop the government from trying. > > > > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only > > industrialized > > > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect > > those who are > > > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from > > them. > > > > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) > >Oops, I just came back from Texas, and they now have no helmet law. Florida recently dropped their motorcycle helmet law too. Or rather you don't hav eto wear a helmet if you have insurance. If you don't have insurance then you still have to wear a helmet. Strangely, you still have to wear a helmet to ride a bicycle! >Used to have it and then didn't, but once did before that and will probably >flip and then flop back once again. Yeap, that's politics! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 08:25:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B48ADBD.BD60AB40@internet1.net> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >Joe, > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or >undersize. I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in this country in the last ten years. > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without >appropriate updates on the power system. That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. >It is part of a longer range solution. Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil than it is to produce our own. If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run out of hot water. > Drilling in new locations is >something a lot of countries are doing. Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and because it's a huge source of revenue. > Drilling in the North Sea is >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other problems. > Something might >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 08:30:33 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707201718.00ab0dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709092644.00a1c7d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Tony, It must be something like that, I'll have to experiment with it. I do have the "operator's instructions" for it do you want a copy? They explain the controls but that's about all. FWIW I have a second box that doesn't do the self test. The display and other indicators ont he bottom never come on. However the signal LEDs seem to work ok. I guess I need to work on it when I have time. Joe At 07:01 PM 7/8/01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > Does anyone have the technical manual for the Navtel SuperTest 25 > RS-232 > >Alas not. I have the unit, though... > > > breakout box? I need to know how to make it act like as a DCE. It's a > >I think you have to turn off the 10 DIP switches in the bottom bank >(above the display) and then use patch leads to link the pins between >that DIP switch and the display (which carry the test signals) to the >appropriate pins on the breakout box part. > >-tony From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Jul 9 08:44:28 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <3B494994.7E22220F@kcinter.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: > Hello Claude, > > You could try out Sellyouritem.com, a relatively new auction site that does > have a catagory for classic electronics. > I wouldn't waste the time. I put a couple of SUN VME boards up with auto-relist. After three auction periods I had 0 bids and only 4 hits on the items at all (and at least one of them, probably 2 as I warched it from home too, were me). bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From jruschme at mac.com Mon Jul 9 08:58:44 2001 From: jruschme at mac.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: SCSI Ethernet adapters (was: How much is a partial Lisa worth?) References: <200107081858.NAA95959@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B49B894.4030000@mac.com> > > >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:40:53 -0700 >From: Mike Ford >Subject: Re: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > >>>No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most >>>of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's >>>asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet >>>adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box >>>only, $5. >>> >>Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for >>a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! >> > >They aren't rare, I am sure you had one in your hand last time you were >here. Asante EN SC, but I wouldn't use one for a SE/30 unless there was a >good reason why I couldn't use an internal card. > Mike, you've seen more than I have, but based on my experience, I'd say the the most common ones are the Dayna and the Asante ones. The rarest would seem to be the Cabletron (the only one only one with a publised API) and the Kinetics. Personally, I'd love to find a Kinetics one just to test a theory that it is command compatible with the Cabletron. As for why not use an internal SE/30 card? Probably the best reason is if you've already got the Xceed video card. :-) <<>> From David.Neal at ubsw.com Mon Jul 9 08:57:04 2001 From: David.Neal at ubsw.com (David.Neal@ubsw.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) Message-ID: bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an 'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come along a offer to take it away for free ). Cheers D -----Original Message----- From: rigdonj Sent: 09 July 2001 14:25 To: classiccmp Cc: rigdonj Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >Joe, > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or >undersize. I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in this country in the last ten years. > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without >appropriate updates on the power system. That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. >It is part of a longer range solution. Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil than it is to produce our own. If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run out of hot water. > Drilling in new locations is >something a lot of countries are doing. Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and because it's a huge source of revenue. > Drilling in the North Sea is >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other problems. > Something might >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! Joe Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Jul 9 07:34:03 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010709083403.00f50f6c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 12:19 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: >It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in >that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our >politicians in line. > >Peace... Sridhar I'd rather say that the American public does a lousy job of keeping its perception of reality in line. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From lance at costanzo.net Mon Jul 9 09:13:05 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> At 03:30 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >On July 9, Neil Cherry wrote: >> X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was > X10 was originally marketed by BSR, if memory serves. According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/oct99/articles/rye/rye.htm Some interesting bits on development and manufacturing, too. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 9 09:23:09 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: The Computer Journal In-Reply-To: <3B491F0A.31E29B6A@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: > > Wow. This is just TOO weird. I _just_ sent a message with that > > EXACT subject asking what was up with TCJ and I noticed this message > > right after I hit 'send'. > > > > *wanders off scratching his head* > > Newton and Liebnitz (sp) discover calculus at the same time? > > Where is Rod Serling when you need him?! > He's probably kicking back with Gary Kildall. :) What sucks is that I _still_ don't know what happened to TCJ. g. From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 9 09:21:40 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: References: <001901c1063a$2ce8ab00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010709085129.00b68680@pc> At 07:05 AM 7/7/01 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old >bastard. No, we'll grind them up and make Soylent Green. Next time they're driving too slow for conditions or leave the turn signal on, we'll nab them. Death will teach them a lesson they won't forget, let me tell you. - John From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 09:38:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001801c10884$d8c9e5a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Sure, go ahead, but include the entire thread, will you. I bet you don't have the stones to do that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 12:06 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > No, Sam, it's not a threat of murder, which you'd know if you'd learn > > to read. > > Would you like me to pass your e-mail message on to your local law > enforcement and let them decide? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 09:41:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were require to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > >Joe, > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > >undersize. > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > this country in the last ten years. > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > than it is to produce our own. > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > out of hot water. > > > > Drilling in new locations is > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > problems. > > > > Something might > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > Joe > > From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 9 09:41:36 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B49C2A0.CA013811@internet1.net> I'm not sure what you mean..... are you saying you run your car on the oil that potatoe chips are cooked in?? Isn't it kind of thick? Is that what you are calling,"biodiesel"? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David.Neal@ubsw.com wrote: > > bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on > biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently > running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the > local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an > 'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come > along a offer to take it away for free ). > > Cheers > > D From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 09:43:04 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: Message-ID: <002a01c10885$7618e4a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've heard and smelled evidence of that. How well does it work? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:57 AM Subject: RE: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) > bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on > biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently > running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the > local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an > 'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come > along a offer to take it away for free ). > > Cheers > > D > > -----Original Message----- > From: rigdonj > Sent: 09 July 2001 14:25 > To: classiccmp > Cc: rigdonj > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be > offensive, possible humor) > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > >Joe, > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line > and > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > >undersize. > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the > refineries in > this country in the last ten years. > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power > industry > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in > California) > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil > shortage. > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a > couple > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason > that > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record > profits! > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the > middle > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their > oil > than it is to produce our own. > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then > they > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best > practicle > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production > cars > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if > not > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never > run > out of hot water. > > > > Drilling in new locations is > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources > and > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do > with > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but > maybe > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also > has > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. > A > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > problems. > > > > Something might > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the > alcohol > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly > pure > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons > added > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that > it's > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people > won't be > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till > something > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > Joe > > > > Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. > > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If > verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This > message is provided for informational purposes and should not be > construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or > related financial instruments. > > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Jul 9 09:48:13 2001 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: (fwd) Windows 286 and Lotus 123 for DOS 3.4 Upgrade Message-ID: If anyone has any interest in this stuff, please contact this gentleman directly. On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:25:14 -0500, "Jonathan Stirrup" wrote: >Bill, > > My name is Jon. I was rooting through some old junk and low and behold I >found an unopened Windows/286 and an unopened Lotus 123 for DOS 3.4 Upgrade. >I know a lot about current software, but I am a novice at old software. I >search on the internet for information on the Windows/286 and came across >your page. I have no Idea if I may stumbled onto something collectable or >not. Any opinion? Thanks. > >Regards, > >Jon > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 09:48:01 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Stupid discussions References: <3.0.2.32.20010709083403.00f50f6c@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <003001c10886$272d3ac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The discussion has become stupid, if only because everybody complains, yet I'm the only one, so far, that's presented a positive construct. Everybody else just opposes whatever anyone else says. What does that tell you? There's a wide range of what folks perceive as reality. At one extreme are folks like me who think the law should be strictly obeyed, and at another extreme are guys like Sellam, and he's not alone in this, who believe that everybody should do what he, Sellam, wants. There are probably other, equally extreme positions. Somewhere, however, there must be a common ground. The trick is for people to look for that common ground rather than trying to go off by themselves to do what they want, irrespective of anyone else's rights. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 6:34 AM Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > At 12:19 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: > >It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in > >that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our > >politicians in line. > > > >Peace... Sridhar > > I'd rather say that the American public does a lousy job of keeping its > perception of reality in line. > > carlos. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Jul 9 09:56:54 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give creditcard AND bank account info!) References: Message-ID: <3B49C635.6E0E6E80@kcinter.net> Hello Bill, I respectfully disagree, Sellyouritem.com is a new site and does have the category for classic equipment. There are many folks that have had bids. Everyone keeps saying that they are wanting to have an alternative to the high fees at ebay, yet no one seems to want to do what it takes to create that alternative. It seems to me that folks on this list have stated many times that they want a place to put their wares, yet here is one place that is willing to work with the users and some are not wanting to give it a chance. Rome wasn't built in a day nor was ebay. Bill Bill Gunshannon wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > > Hello Claude, > > > > You could try out Sellyouritem.com, a relatively new auction site that does > > have a catagory for classic electronics. > > > > I wouldn't waste the time. I put a couple of SUN VME boards up with > auto-relist. After three auction periods I had 0 bids and only 4 hits > on the items at all (and at least one of them, probably 2 as I warched > it from home too, were me). > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 10:00:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709105244.00a15c60@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:57 PM 7/9/01 +0100, David wrote: >bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on >biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently >running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the >local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an >'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come >along a offer to take it away for free ). That's great. That's exact the kind of inventiveness that is needed to solve the energy crisis. However I think you'll agree that it would be rediculous to require that ALL cars run on chip oil. There simply isn't enough of it around. That's the same problem with alcohol, there isn't enough for it to be a viable fuel source. Yes, we could make more but at what price and with what kind of sacrifices? (more grain used to produce alcohol = less grain for food producton = higher food prices). Like it or not, gasoline will remain the major fuel source for the forseeable future. Joe From owad at applefritter.com Mon Jul 9 10:06:49 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 Message-ID: <20010709150649.29084@mail.earthlink.net> What's the proper way of removing cards from a Sparcserver 470? I thought you just pushed out on those plastic tabs and the card would disconnect and could then be pulled out. They're not budging and I even broke one of those plastic tabs trying to get them out. Am I doing something wrong? Any other way to get the things out of there? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From David.Neal at ubsw.com Mon Jul 9 10:10:00 2001 From: David.Neal at ubsw.com (David.Neal@ubsw.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) Message-ID: Well, yes. Strain out the bits, add some cheap, freely available chem's ( mainly to form the chemical chains ), then dump the crap in the tank and drive off, all in the back yard. Smells of a chip shop too. BioDiesel is really the term used for stuff like processed rape seed oil and the like. Currently ( in the UK ) this is taxed at a lower rate than oil based fossil fuel, but not as low as LPG, even though it's renewable. Believe other 'oil' planet can be used too, not sure of yield or processing requirements. -----Original Message----- From: fernande Sent: 09 July 2001 15:42 To: classiccmp Cc: fernande Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) I'm not sure what you mean..... are you saying you run your car on the oil that potatoe chips are cooked in?? Isn't it kind of thick? Is that what you are calling,"biodiesel"? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David.Neal@ubsw.com wrote: > > bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on > biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently > running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the > local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an > 'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come > along a offer to take it away for free ). > > Cheers > > D Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. From terryc at woa.com.au Mon Jul 9 10:06:21 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <3B49C2A0.CA013811@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B49C86D.4C0AD172@woa.com.au> Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean..... are you saying you run your car on the > oil that potatoe chips are cooked in?? Isn't it kind of thick? Is that > what you are calling,"biodiesel"? Yep, you can. We even know about that in Oz. Alternate Technology Assn has had recipes in their mag. Also, some country petrol (gas) has 10-20% (?) Ethanol in it here. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 9 10:22:26 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B49CC32.13AA5CAA@internet1.net> Joe, joe wrote: > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! Wow, I don't' usually get that kind of response :-) > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > this country in the last ten years. Why? Even if they import the oil, they still have to refine it? > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. Didn't I essentially say the same thing? I don't think the oil "crisis" has anything to do with the electricity "crisis". Our (US) electrical grid/system hasn't been upgraded to keep pace with demand and maybe not even kept current (no pun intended :-) I did hear that more power stations are being built more than ever before, However. I guess someone thought it was a good idea to build a few :-) > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > than it is to produce our own. What I have always heard, was that our oil, "Texas oil" wasn't the same quality as oil from the middle east, and that Alaskan oil was much closer in quality to oil from the middle east. I know our oil isn't all in Texas and Alaska, but those are the two big name places everyone in the US thinks of. How is drilling new wells, with fancy new technology cheaper than using existing wells with existing technology, i.e. wells and technology that are paid for and proven already? Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore. > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > mileage. Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore. > 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I don't think solar hot water heaters would work very well here in Michigan. We have to many clouds and overcast days, unfortunately. > I have one in my home and > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > out of hot water. How does it work? Is it homemade, or a commercial product? > > > Drilling in new locations is > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. Well my point wasn't really the engineering, that was a bonus :-) > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Then why do certain classes of race vehicles use it, if it isn't as powerful? > Alcohol also has > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. Doesn't it just take a switch to stainless steal for lines, tank, etc.? > A > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > problems. You mean gasohol... I remember that stuff :-) > > > Something might > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > That would cure the population problem! I don't buy the whole population problem deal either, but lets save that one for later :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 9 10:25:56 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709105244.00a15c60@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B49CD04.BE67E193@internet1.net> joe wrote: > There simply isn't > enough of it around. That's the same problem with alcohol, there isn't > enough for it to be a viable fuel source. How can you say that in a day that farmers get paid to plant less crops and the price of grain is low becasue of over supply? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 9 10:27:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> Message-ID: That is DEFINITELY a peice of info to hold onto if you're into home automation. I can definitely relate to his getting zapped in the electrical closet too as I was nailed once with 240VAC 400hz from one of our air launched cruise missile test racks but I was part of the circuit. I still have occasion to have a numb hand but of couse our wonderous VA system thinks that there's no disability so I deal with my regular retirement (no biggie). Seems Sears Roebuck was a customer before BSR as well on the X10 items even though BSR/X10 were involved in other things. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lance Costanzo -> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 9:13 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) -> -> -> At 03:30 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: -> >On July 9, Neil Cherry wrote: -> >> X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was -> > X10 was originally marketed by BSR, if memory serves. -> According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, -> RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. -> http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/oct99/articles/rye/rye.htm -> Some interesting bits on development and manufacturing, too. -> From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jul 9 10:41:51 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 In-Reply-To: <20010709150649.29084@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.200