From west at tseinc.com Sun Jul 1 05:28:15 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:07 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: Message-ID: <000d01c10218$8a585540$7c8953d1@jay> Bob Shannon wrote... > > This is incorrect! > > > > The HP tape reader uses a HP tape reader board that is unique, it is NOT the HP > > 8 bit duplex register board. Bob is incorrect for the 2100 as well as the entire 21MX M/E/F (and HP1000) lines. He could very well be right on the 2114/5/6 cpu's though. The HP 2748B paper tape readers were connected to an HP2100 or HP21MX M/E/F system via the 8-bit duplex register board. No other interface was used, at least for sale in HP configurations. Matter of fact, if you bought the paper tape reader kit (the part # escapes my mind) which included the paper tape reader, the HOST interface board, cables, manuals, and diagnostic, there was only one interface you would ever get. The 8-bit duplex register. This was the HP designated interface for the 2748B. I can only assume Bob is referring to the older 2114 (not actually an HP machine other than the label), 2115, and 2116 machines which I'm not as familiar with. I have however, seen 2748B paper tape readers hooked up to a 2116 with an 8 bit duplex register so I know that to say in general terms that the HP tape reader board is unique and not the 8 bit duplex register board isn't accurate. But I can't speak from experience on the 2114 or 2115. Of course, the 2114/5/6 are NOT 2100 machines, and of course they're not 21MX M/E/F systems either. So, perhaps early 2114/5/6's had a modified paper tape reader and a unique interface at that time, but certainly not after the 2116. Jay West From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 00:37:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:11 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <1237.582T1550T2845531optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010701053706.39669.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > >--- Bill Pechter wrote: > >> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without > that > >> > quasi-SCSI chip. > > >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and > >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to > >get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have > >a map of which byte corresponds to which socket). > > That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets. > I'll see if I can sacrifice a Mac on the VAX/Supra altar, but I'm having a > hard time justifying the sacrifice of a working machine for a bare-bones > (piranha-eaten is a better description =) 0,9 VUP VAX. It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several that makes up a uVAX-2000. The MFM cable isn't impossible to construct - the hard part to find is the 60-pin IDC connector. The other end (hard disk and floppy) are standard PC components. At one point, I contemplated building a uVAX-2000 into a stripped PC chassis. I wanted enough room for two MFM disks, a floppy and the CPU. I got as far as mounting the uKA410 board into a clone of the original AT case. Never got it hooked up in its new home. After that, I aquired a BA123 and went back to playing with Qbus. Oh, and in reference to your earlier question about "easy", I have never seen a uVAX/VS-2000 without added RAM. Some have even been upgraded after the fact, leaving a surplus of 2Mb RAM cards. I do not know how common the KA410 was in Europe. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 00:53:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: VAXBI (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010701055331.78921.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > DEC licensed the patent to anyone who wanted for $100 a board, > and Emulex, Dilog, and others STILL made a profit on aftermarket > boards. DEC learned(?) from this and wouldn't license a later > bus (VAXBI?)... It was very difficult to get a VAXBI license. Software Results had to apply multiple times and it was only granted after the market made the VAXBI irrelevant (1989). I still have a pile of VAXBI COMBOARDs (68010 10Mhz, 2Mb DRAM, Z8530). If it weren't for MSCP, I'd consider attempting to convert one to SCSI with an 5380 - not high performance, but neither is the COMBOARD, but that's not a problem when all you are doing is pushing characters over a sync serial interface at 56Kb. > ....so Emulex and Dilog were limited to purchasing > the cheapest board DEC made, removing the bus interface chips, > and installing them on their own boards. and STILL made a > profit. Considering I've seen prices like $10K for a VAXBI SCSI card (new, supported disk _and_ tape), there was room for profit. The VAXBI interface chip was $350 from DEC, and at one point, you could buy 2Mb memory cards for the 8200 for $50. The most recent cards I've picked up were (2) 4Mb cards for $10 each, but that was more than 5 years ago. I just wish the KDB-50 wasn't so flakey - I have to reseat mine on a regular basis or the machine won't boot (VAX 8300). -ethan > > Regards, > Clint > > > Who knows? Only the patent office I suppose. It was a mass storage protocol > > > that DEC invented and some patent examiner said "Yup, this is good stuff." > > The Microprocessor was also patented but that patent has expired. Most of > > the emulators/clones on DEC gear do _not_ include MSCP support. Getting it > > is a challenge. Intel and Motorola have copyrights on their Microcode and > > patents and various aspects of their processors but as a whole they aren't. > > > I believe all of Intel's chipsets are patented in one form or another which > > > prevents non-licensees from building them. > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > > ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 01:02:44 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <002901c1010b$b0333ae0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > The old (1981-82) DAVONG hard drives for use with PC's came packaged together > with a WD 1100-series chipset based HDC that talked some protocol specific to > that device... I think I got one of those at Dayton a few years back (> 8)... It was sold to me as a SCSI enclosure, but a moment's inspection once I got home revealed that to be false. I might have the board around; I know I have the Davong enclosure somewhere - used it for a while with an ACB-4000 on my Amiga. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 01:04:56 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Zorro I vs Zorro II (was RE: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010629141443.01c9d570@pc> Message-ID: <20010701060456.94266.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > At 12:09 PM 6/29/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >I have personally seen a Zorro I expansion box. It was stolen from the > >Ohio State University Physics Demonstration Department... > > Wasn't the first made by Byte-by-Byte, quite early on? Perhaps. I remember Sculpt3D (got a couple of copies) and the joystick clock (there were also parallel-port clocks in that era). It sounds plausible, though. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 1 01:58:10 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > No way! You actually found a useful electrical COMPONENT at Fry's?!?!? > Wow last time I tried that (1K resistor) they didn't have them and the > clerk told me "nobody uses resistors anymore they are being > discontinued." :-) I couldn't tell if they mean Fry's was going to > stop carrying them or they believed that resistors were no longer > relevant to the engineering world. When dealing with a Fry's employee, always assume the worst :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Jul 1 06:07:25 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: OT Celebration Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. Cheers, chaps Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 1 08:10:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Back from the fleamarket In-Reply-To: <20010701053706.39669.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2278.582T850T8504899optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> >--- Bill Pechter wrote: >> >> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without >> that >> >> > quasi-SCSI chip. >> >> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and >> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to >> >get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have >> >a map of which byte corresponds to which socket). >> >> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? >Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets. I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly useful. >> I'll see if I can sacrifice a Mac on the VAX/Supra altar, but I'm having a >> hard time justifying the sacrifice of a working machine for a bare-bones >> (piranha-eaten is a better description =) 0,9 VUP VAX. >It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several >that makes up a uVAX-2000. The MFM cable isn't impossible to construct - >the hard part to find is the 60-pin IDC connector. The other end (hard >disk and floppy) are standard PC components. Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I could scrounge together a hard drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable (assuming compatibility). Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the board, regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be added, like ethernet? >Oh, and in reference to your earlier question about "easy", I have never >seen a uVAX/VS-2000 without added RAM. Some have even been upgraded >after the fact, leaving a surplus of 2Mb RAM cards. I do not know >how common the KA410 was in Europe. Well, this was just a motherboard from a skip, so while upgrade cards might have been popular, so must the case, PSU, drives and cables have been. And all that is probably in a garbage dump somewhere now. =/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods From vonhagen at vonhagen.org Sun Jul 1 08:51:45 2001 From: vonhagen at vonhagen.org (William von Hagen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 Keyboard Needed In-Reply-To: <200106301309.IAA85706@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701094901.054c4820@209.95.107.208> I scored a Victor 9000 (a cool PC "almost-compatible") on eBay, but need a keyboard in order to do anything "useful" with it. Does anyone happen to have a spare? It uses an RJ45-like keyboard connector, and seems to feature a fair number of proprietary keys. Any help would, as always, be appreciated. Thanks! Bill From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 1 08:55:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's easy to fool oneself into believing the DAVONG controller should have either the WD-1000 (a 50-pin interface) or the SASI, but simple inspection indicates that DAVONG used signals on both even and odd numbered pins on their controller. I acquired mine in the hope that they'd stuck to the reference design that Western Digital put out with their WD1100 chipset, but they apparently didn't. I have a couple of the WD1100-based WD1000 controller boards in a version made by/for Televideo for their TS806 machines, of which I have a couple (not working at the moment, though they previously worked as spoolers in my earlier PC-system architecture) and was contemplating modifying the PLL and swapping the crystal, thereby making the board compatible with 8" HDD's. It just requires a crystal, a cap, an inductor, and a moderately complicated retuning of the varactor-based VCO on the board. The procedure is quite clearly outlined in one of the very early WD-1000 manuals I have. The road to hell, they say, is paved with good intentions ... That power supply and enclosure are somewhat odd. The box is completely sealed off at the front, as one might justify for a HDD, but since the thing has supplies capable of supporting it, I was once considering putting an Ampro Little board and a floppy in there with a HH HDD. The metal working discouraged me from it long enough to take it off the list of things to do. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 12:02 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The old (1981-82) DAVONG hard drives for use with PC's came packaged together > > with a WD 1100-series chipset based HDC that talked some protocol specific to > > that device... > > I think I got one of those at Dayton a few years back (> 8)... It was sold > to me as a SCSI enclosure, but a moment's inspection once I got home revealed > that to be false. I might have the board around; I know I have the Davong > enclosure somewhere - used it for a while with an ACB-4000 on my Amiga. > > -ethan > > > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jul 1 08:55:23 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 References: Message-ID: <3B3F2BCB.F306E8E2@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Will keeping them in an unheated garage cause much damage, > >or should I make an effort to get the units to the basement. > Well, my PDP-11/44 is kept in an unheated garage (though it does get heat > from the house) that can get plenty hot in the summer, and very cold in the > winter. Prior to my getting it, the /44 sat in Paxton's old Warehouse for > who knows how many years. I think cleanliness is of more importance than > wide temperature changes. Because of this I keep the /44 covered with old > sheets to try and keep most of the dirt out of it. Jerome Fine replies: Plenty hot in Ottawa in the summer can still be over 90 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer with VERY high humidity. But in winter, minus 40 degrees is not uncommon - humidity is probably not important (and Fahrenheit is not required since the same value applies to Centigrade as well). By the way, if you are running RT-11, one RK05 for the system files (about 5000 blocks) is usually enough and another RK05 drive can hold the data files - another 5000 blocks. I ran that way for many years in the early 1980s. Just keep each project (if you actually have any) on a separate data RK05 disc pack. An RL01 is much nicer for RT-11 at 10,000 blocks and the RL02 (uses the same Unibus controller) is wonderful at 20,000 blocks. I am currently running a simulated RL01 drive under the E11 emulator and it is only half full. Of course, for data drives I am "cheating" a bit since I have I have 3 * 32 MBytes RAM disks available while I do multiple assemblies and 2 * 256 MBytes of Sony SMO S501 magneto optical disk drives to make permanent copies of the files on the RAM disks when I decide it is time to test the programs. All the RAM disks and the Sony drives are under one MSCP DUX.SYS device driver that can reference up to 64 partitions in RT-11 or 2 Gbytes of disk space at one time. This is such a change from just 2 RK05 drives that I can hardly remember having just 10,000 blocks in total. However, the interesting part in RT-11 is that although it may be a bit inconvenient, it is still possible to write the same programs and execute mostly all the same software even on an 11/34 with just 128 KBytes (even if just half populated with memory) although perhaps just one program at a time. Yes, and one additional factor - SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW. Did you receive any system software and if so do you know which version of the operating systems are available? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 1 10:01:25 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> I had thought someone actually wanted a DSDD 8 inch drive. NEC 1165's available.... From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 1 10:00:10 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <000d01c10218$8a585540$7c8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B3F3AF9.87FAF246@tiac.net> Jay West wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote... > > > This is incorrect! > > > > > > The HP tape reader uses a HP tape reader board that is unique, it is NOT > the HP > > > 8 bit duplex register board. > > Bob is incorrect for the 2100 as well as the entire 21MX M/E/F (and HP1000) > lines. He could very well be right on the 2114/5/6 cpu's though. "Incorrect" may have been a poor choice of words....however I have documentation that shows a HP2100 shipped by HP with the older reader interface board. In fact one of the reader boards I have was removed from a basket-case 2100 system. I wounder when HP switched over, and why? > The HP 2748B paper tape readers were connected to an HP2100 or HP21MX M/E/F > system via the 8-bit duplex register board. No other interface was used, at > least for sale in HP configurations. Matter of fact, if you bought the paper > tape reader kit (the part # escapes my mind) which included the paper tape > reader, the HOST interface board, cables, manuals, and diagnostic, there was > only one interface you would ever get. The 8-bit duplex register. This was > the HP designated interface for the 2748B. The documentation I have for the tape reader kit shows the older, reader specific board rather than the duplex reg. Hmmmm, what gives here? > I can only assume Bob is referring to the older 2114 (not actually an HP > machine other than the label), 2115, and 2116 machines which I'm not as > familiar with. I have however, seen 2748B paper tape readers hooked up to a > 2116 with an 8 bit duplex register so I know that to say in general terms > that the HP tape reader board is unique and not the 8 bit duplex register > board isn't accurate. But I can't speak from experience on the 2114 or 2115. > Of course, the 2114/5/6 are NOT 2100 machines, and of course they're not > 21MX M/E/F systems either. So, perhaps early 2114/5/6's had a modified paper > tape reader and a unique interface at that time, but certainly not after the > 2116. > > Jay West Umm, how is the 2114 not an HP machine? (The 2114 was developed by HP.) Your thinking of the 2116 perhaps, which was originally developed by a small firm that HP later absorbed? Also the 2116 was HP's first computer, not the 2114. The 2100 came after the 2114, and at least 1 2100A shipped using the older style interface board. My 2115 also came with the old-stype tape reader board, and that clearly came after the 2116. (the first computer HP actually designed was the 2115, simply a re-packaged 2116) My guess would be that HP decided to use the duplex board, and stop production of the reader-specific board to simplify their inventory. This means that some of the HP tape reader cables out there are wired for the original tape reader interface board, while others are wired for the duplex register. Using the wrong cable could cause problems. >From what info I have, it appears that the switch from the original Tape Reader I/F to the generic duplex register must have happened in or after 1970 or 1971. What is your definition of a '2100 machine'? 2114, 2115, and 2116 machines run HP 2100 software, and were the original processors used in HP2000 time share basic systems. They originated the HP board interface used all the way up to the MX and E series. The software on the HP2100 archive site is that which originally shipped with 2114 thru 2116 systems. If these classic machines are not 2100's, then what are they? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 10:01:20 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <2278.582T850T8504899optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010701150120.59207.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > >> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and > >> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface > >> > >> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? > > >Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets. > > I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single > mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly useful. I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken. > >It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several... > Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I could scrounge together a hard > drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable (assuming > compatibility). If you want to use it as VAXstation, yes, you need all of those. If you want to use it as a MicroVAX, you wouldn't need the mouse/keyboard/cable. > Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the board, > regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be > added, like ethernet? There is a default frame buffer. I have never used it so I don't know its resolution, scan-rate, etc. It is active when the jumper says to be a VAXstation, and not active when the jumper says to be a MicroVAX. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From vonhagen at vonhagen.org Sun Jul 1 10:08:56 2001 From: vonhagen at vonhagen.org (William von Hagen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: <200107011350.IAA94109@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701105901.03faad20@209.95.107.208> I recently picked up (literally) an IBM 5151 monitor for my original PC, but can't figure out how to open it up. This sounds silly, but what can I say. Could some kind soul help me with this? There are a variety of loose parts rattling around inside that I would like to put back in their original locations before applying power. Thanks! Bill From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Jul 1 10:30:55 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701105901.03faad20@209.95.107.208> References: <200107011350.IAA94109@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701112741.00a69350@mail.wincom.net> At 11:08 AM 01/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I recently picked up (literally) an IBM 5151 monitor for my original PC, >but can't figure out how to open it up. This sounds silly, but what can I >say. Could some kind soul help me with this? There are a variety of loose >parts rattling around inside that I would like to put back in their >original locations before applying power. > >Thanks! > > Bill There are a couple of plastic squares on the top, (on mine they are a deeper yellow,) and these will pry out giving access to a couple of screws. This is on an IBM monitor on an XT- I couldn't get at the back to check the part number. Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 10:37:28 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200106300135.f5U1ZXG20261@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010701153728.14343.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x > > > And if so what processors does it support? > > > > Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780... I think that's true. The 11/750 didn't come out for a couple of years, and that's the only other model that I would expect could do it (since its microcode is in ROM). Dunno what devices are supported by V1.0. > > ... and through > > V3 I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe > > this is probably true for early V4 releases). We got a MicroVAX-I when they were new ($10K!). It came with MicroVMS on an RD-52 (10Mb disk). AFAIK, that was the first VAX not in the 11/7xx line. > > Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is, not only does anyone have > > it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and > > about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets. I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage locker. There is a possibility that I know someone with the media kit, but it's been years since I talked to them. OTOH, I have no docs for any v2 or v3 versions of VMS, but I do have some distribution TU-58s for stuff in the range of 3.4 to 3.6. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jul 1 10:55:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> Message-ID: Hi Bob, >I had thought someone actually wanted a DSDD 8 inch drive. >NEC 1165's available.... That was me...I think I've got it covered though. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 1 11:13:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000d01c10248$cdbb7580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Those are the ones I mentioned, which have the 3-1/2" type power connector. They look like pretty decent drives, but, since they're not like the rest of my 8" drives, I gave the ones I had away. This was because they were not readily interchangeable with other drives, and that was because of the power connections. They might be a good choice for someone wishing to use them in a dedicated package. My applications generally involve 8" hard drives as well, and they use the same power connections as the FDD's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:01 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > I had thought someone actually wanted a DSDD 8 inch drive. > > NEC 1165's available.... > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 1 11:22:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <20010701060244.94176.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <001501c10235$73fd8000$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B3F3B44.5BED7132@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001301c1024a$1849a6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The thing that might be interesting with NEC1165's would be to compare them to 3-1/2" drives. Though I'm not certain about it, the power might be compatible. If not, it just might be a mite risky to package the two drive types together since the power connectors are the same. These NEC people made a number of moves of that sort in the early '80's. They built a number of PC clones that were "almost" clones ... and you know where that led them ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > Hi Bob, > > >I had thought someone actually wanted a DSDD 8 inch drive. > >NEC 1165's available.... > > That was me...I think I've got it covered though. Thanks > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 1 12:13:04 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <20010701153728.14343.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 01, 2001 08:37:28 AM Message-ID: <200107011713.f61HD4b01213@narnia.int.dittman.net> > --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x > > > > And if so what processors does it support? > > > > > > Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780... > > I think that's true. The 11/750 didn't come out for a couple of years, > and that's the only other model that I would expect could do it (since > its microcode is in ROM). Dunno what devices are supported by V1.0. > > > > ... and through > > > V3 I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe > > > this is probably true for early V4 releases). > > We got a MicroVAX-I when they were new ($10K!). It came with MicroVMS on > an RD-52 (10Mb disk). AFAIK, that was the first VAX not in the 11/7xx line. > > > > Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is, not only does anyone have > > > it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and > > > about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets. > > I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage locker. > There is a possibility that I know someone with the media kit, but it's been > years since I talked to them. > > OTOH, I have no docs for any v2 or v3 versions of VMS, but I do have some > distribution TU-58s for stuff in the range of 3.4 to 3.6. Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Jul 1 12:26:38 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 References: <3B3F2BCB.F306E8E2@idirect.com> Message-ID: <001601c10252$fd54a000$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Fine" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 > >Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >Will keeping them in an unheated garage cause much > > >damage,or should I make an effort to get the units to the > > >basement. Well, my PDP-11/44 is kept in an unheated > > >garage (though it does get heat ... > > who knows how many years. I think cleanliness is of > >more importance than wide temperature changes. > > Because of this I keep the /44 covered with old > > sheets to try and keep most of the dirt out of it. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Plenty hot in Ottawa in the summer can still be over 90 > degrees Fahrenheit in the summer with VERY high humidity. > But in winter, minus 40 degrees is not uncommon - humidity > is probably not important (and Fahrenheit is not required > since the same value applies to Centigrade as well). My wife will not let them into the house, so if my pleading is in vain I may have to put it up for adoption in the fall, with the 2 as400/s. > Did you receive any system software and if so do you know > which version of the operating systems are available? There is one disk labelled TSX,LEX, the rest are unlabeled except for AECL 2200 BPI-12 AECL( Atomic Energy Canada Limited) is where they machines came from I believe. There are 2 other pack labelled RL01K-DC with TD2, and TD4 The paper tapes are labelled: DZM91-D-PB DZKMA-C1-PB DZKAQ-F-PB DFKTH-A-PB DFKAC-A-PB DFKAB-C-PB DFKAA-B1-PB DCMFA-D-PB DZDLA-F-PB DZDLA-F1-PB I didn't notice a paper tape reader in the pile, but there is a manual from a paper tape reader that gives the codes. There is also a Manual from HP - Seminar in Problem solving concepts for computer systems. and a bunch for a PDP 11/15. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 12:26:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? In-Reply-To: <668.582T2250T336003optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 1, 1 00:33:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1087 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/94dcf18e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 12:31:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jun 30, 1 06:21:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1401 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/68ea7669/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 1 12:48:57 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Paging Brian Roth Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701104808.023a0070@209.185.79.193> Watch for the UPS delivery person on the 5th or so... --Chuck From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Jul 1 09:02:32 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <001601c10252$fd54a000$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20010701175851.KBUV2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Mike Kenzie" > To: > Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:26:38 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Snip! > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > Plenty hot in Ottawa in the summer can still be over 90 > > degrees Fahrenheit in the summer with VERY high humidity. > > But in winter, minus 40 degrees is not uncommon - > humidity > > is probably not important (and Fahrenheit is not > required > > since the same value applies to Centigrade as well). Confirmed, I was visiting Algonquin college last wednesday. Beauiful city all I can describe simply aside from that heat and humidity. So store them in ventilated, dry shed during summer off the cement. During Winter, keep them dry and minimumize the temp swings. Ditto here Kingston as well but very drab aside from that Tall Ships going on now and bunch of historic buildings. But Kingston is poor city to consider making your home with a job. The committe there is screwed so there were very little major developments. If I ever live in Ottawa for the Algonquin as a student, where is the best spots for old, cheap computer stuff especially Macs? Also what about electronics component stores to visit for parts? Also, I'm told that ottawa city has very few vacant rooming for rent and I also want to know where the "bad areas" is so I know where to avoid. The primary transportation is bus. Cheers, Wizard From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 1 13:03:30 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701110043.024a27a0@209.185.79.193> At 06:31 PM 7/1/01 +0100, Tony wrote: >Or, as in the UK, just about nobody does electronics any more :-( Unrelated to classiccmp perhaps, but one thing in the UK and the US that is rekindling some interest in electronics is BattleBots/Robotwars. These are basically high powered and armored R/C cars w/weapons that compete in televised events. Building one of these things requires that you learn a bit about electronics (and mechanics). There's hope for a few of the younger generation if they get inspired... --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 1 12:48:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: OT Celebration In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jul 1 13:47:56 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 References: <20010701175851.KBUV2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3B3F705C.56D67597@idirect.com> aaaaa >jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > If I ever live in Ottawa for the Algonquin as a student, where is the > best spots for old, cheap computer stuff especially Macs? Also what > about electronics component stores to visit for parts? Jerome Fine replies: I have not been back to Ottawa very often and there were no such stores when I lived there. I lived in Ottawa for about 18 months in 1967 when I started my third job. I moved there on New Year's day and by the end of the week the temperature had dropped to minus 40. Fortunately I had been warned and with a block heater, oil dipstick heater and car warmer, the old 1965 full size Chevy (they sure did make them big back then) started without a problem. The company had an old CDC 3500 (hey - back then it was new) with a wonderful operating system that allowed many users to edit their files on-line and then submit the files as batch jobs to be executed almost immediately depending on the queue length. Now this may seem like a very limited system, but in 1967, even interactive editing was brand new. And batch jobs were normally submitted via a card deck - yep - punched cards. My initial job was to help upgrade the file structure code from a linear search of over 3000 files to a hash search of 6000 files. I wrote some code to monitor how the upgrade was being used and sure enough I predicted a system crash about an hour before it occurred - the hash algorithm was not re-using vacated file descriptors - wonderful method, inadequate implementation and checking. Next I wrote a system job to use the primitive program that copied one file at a time from/to disk/tape. The super job read all the file headers and copied all the specified files from disk to tape and attached a backup number to each file. That was the nightly backup run. During the noon lull, a five minute job backed up all the changed or new files for the morning at the next higher backup level so that any new files could also be recovered without having to backup all the files. Hey - I was asked a question about all those old companies and I mentioned Snow White (no not the virus - IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs. I remembered six and want to check if these were the correct seven? Burroughs Control Data DEC Honeywell NCR Univac Wang I don't think Xerox was one at that point in time? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 1 12:53:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701110043.024a27a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Unrelated to classiccmp perhaps, but one thing in the UK and the US > that is rekindling some interest in electronics is > BattleBots/Robotwars. These are basically high powered and armored R/C > cars w/weapons that compete in televised events. Building one of these > things requires that you learn a bit about electronics (and > mechanics). There's hope for a few of the younger generation if they > get inspired... Well, it's not going to Moon, but I agree that it is definitely a positive and refreshing trend. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Jul 1 14:17:56 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Paging Brian Roth References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701104808.023a0070@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B3F7764.D094F5B1@heathers.stdio.com> Whats up....? Chuck McManis wrote: > Watch for the UPS delivery person on the 5th or so... > --Chuck From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 1 14:00:39 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701112741.00a69350@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: The 5151 is the original for the PC/XT line and the squares simply pop out and expose a screw. 25KV inside when powered (and as much when unplugged) so use caution. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Charles E. Fox -> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 10:31 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed -> -> -> At 11:08 AM 01/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: -> >I recently picked up (literally) an IBM 5151 monitor for my -> original PC, -> >but can't figure out how to open it up. This sounds silly, but -> what can I -> >say. Could some kind soul help me with this? There are a -> variety of loose -> >parts rattling around inside that I would like to put back in their -> >original locations before applying power. -> > -> >Thanks! -> > -> > Bill -> -> There are a couple of plastic squares on the top, (on mine they -> are a deeper yellow,) and these will pry out giving access to a -> couple of -> screws. This is on an IBM monitor on an XT- I couldn't get at -> the back to -> check the part number. -> -> Regards -> Charlie Fox -> Chas E. Fox Video Productions -> 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 -> foxvideo@wincom.net -> Check out: -> Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com -> From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jul 1 14:36:21 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: OT Celebration In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 1, 1 10:48:23 am" Message-ID: <200107011936.MAA07816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. > > Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. Sam, I have an infinite supply of Dr. Pepper, but I can't keep spitting it into this C128 when I read messages like this. It won't take much more of that. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain --------------------- From ljcst18+ at pitt.edu Sun Jul 1 14:34:32 2001 From: ljcst18+ at pitt.edu (Lucas J Cashdollar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm in the robotics club at my college and a guy there is making a robot for the robotwars/battlebot. Its uses a cutting blade of some sort for its weapon. The blade has a four inch diameter and is 3/4 inch thick and the cutting edge is carbide. Neat stuff On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > Unrelated to classiccmp perhaps, but one thing in the UK and the US > > that is rekindling some interest in electronics is > > BattleBots/Robotwars. These are basically high powered and armored R/C > > cars w/weapons that compete in televised events. Building one of these > > things requires that you learn a bit about electronics (and > > mechanics). There's hope for a few of the younger generation if they > > get inspired... > > Well, it's not going to Moon, but I agree that it is definitely a positive > and refreshing trend. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com Sun Jul 1 14:37:21 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <3B3F705C.56D67597@idirect.com> from Jerome Fine at "Jul 1, 2001 02:47:56 pm" Message-ID: <200107011937.f61JbLk05452@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> > Hey - I was asked a question about all those old companies and I mentioned > Snow White (no not the virus - IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs. I remembered six > and want to check if these were the correct seven? > Burroughs > Control Data > DEC > Honeywell > NCR > Univac > Wang BUNCH -- Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data, Honeywell(a.k.a. GE). RCA and DEC may have rounded out the pack. RCA unloaded it's Spectra line and Univac picked it up. DEC moved into Marlboro in to some areas that IIRC were RCA spots. RCA dumped computers at the time one of execs was in divorce procedings. A hurried income report showed no profit in the computer line (when they ACTUALLY made ground and PROFIT against IBM) (around 1970/71) and they dumped their mainframe computing push. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com Sun Jul 1 14:42:26 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <001601c10252$fd54a000$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from Mike Kenzie at "Jul 1, 2001 01:26:38 pm" Message-ID: <200107011942.f61JgQO05504@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> > There is one disk labelled TSX,LEX, the rest are unlabeled > except for AECL 2200 BPI-12 TSX-11 is multi-user time shared OS on top of RT11. > The paper tapes are labelled: > DZM91-D-PB - Sounds like bootstrap loader diag? > DZKMA-C1-PB - Memory mos? sdiag iirc > DZKAQ-F-PB - Memory diag (mos MK) iirc > DFKTH-A-PB - 11/34 cache? iirc > DFKAC-A-PB - 11/34 CPU Diag > DFKAB-C-PB - 11/34 CPU Diag > DFKAA-B1-PB - 11/34 cpu Diag -- main instruction set > DCMFA-D-PB - MF11? diag > DZDLA-F-PB - RL diag ? > DZDLA-F1-PB - RL Diag ? > I didn't notice a paper tape reader in the pile, but there > is a manual from a paper tape reader that gives the codes. > Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 1 15:17:56 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Paging Brian Roth In-Reply-To: <3B3F7764.D094F5B1@heathers.stdio.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701104808.023a0070@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010701131736.026da310@209.185.79.193> At 03:17 PM 7/1/01 -0400, Brian wrote: >Whats up....? >Chuck McManis wrote: > > Watch for the UPS delivery person on the 5th or so... > > --Chuck 3800 parts From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 1 15:30:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <20010701153728.14343.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200106300135.f5U1ZXG20261@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage >locker. You have VMS V1.0 doc's?!?!?! Out of curiousity how big are they? That's something that would be very cool to get scanned in. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From hansp at aconit.org Sun Jul 1 15:37:36 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: The Seven Dwarfs References: <200107011937.f61JbLk05452@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3B3F8A10.65C1E9D3@aconit.org> Bill Pechter wrote: > > > Hey - I was asked a question about all those old companies and I mentioned > > Snow White (no not the virus - IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs. I remembered six > > and want to check if these were the correct seven? > > Burroughs > > Control Data > > DEC > > Honeywell > > NCR > > Univac > > Wang > > BUNCH -- Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data, Honeywell(a.k.a. GE). BUNCH came after the seven dwarfs. "Ranked according to each one's share of the dollar values of computer systems installed worldwide in 1967, the dwarfs were Sperry Rand, Control Data Corporation, Honeywell, RCA, NCR, General Electric and Burroughs" >From : The Computer Establishment by Katherine Davis Fishman, ISBN 0-06-011283-2 Sperry, of course was Univac, DEC had a small installed base (in dollar value) at that time. As mentioned, Honeywell bought the GE computer operations in 1970, and in 1971 RCA's were acquired by Sperry leaving the BUNCH. -- HBP From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 1 16:22:11 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: OT Celebration References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3B3F9483.97412AD2@internet1.net> You get to put away the boots, parkas, and snow shovels? I thought they were required year round? :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Charles E. Fox wrote: > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting ready to > celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks put away our > boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two of Canadian Club > or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in memory of our great > victory in the War of 1812. > > Cheers, chaps From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 12:59:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 Keyboard Needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701094901.054c4820@209.95.107.208> from "William von Hagen" at Jul 1, 1 09:51:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/49c7d950/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 15:52:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010701105901.03faad20@209.95.107.208> from "William von Hagen" at Jul 1, 1 11:08:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1295 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/736d4034/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 16:17:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: IBM 5151 Monitor Help Needed In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 1, 1 02:00:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010701/a41e81d3/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jul 1 16:49:21 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:15 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <3B3F705C.56D67597@idirect.com> Message-ID: I think GE and RCA belong on the list, I don't think Wang does. On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > aaaaa > >jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > If I ever live in Ottawa for the Algonquin as a student, where is the > > best spots for old, cheap computer stuff especially Macs? Also what > > about electronics component stores to visit for parts? > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have not been back to Ottawa very often and there were no such > stores when I lived there. > > I lived in Ottawa for about 18 months in 1967 when I started my third > job. I moved there on New Year's day and by the end of the week the > temperature had dropped to minus 40. Fortunately I had been warned > and with a block heater, oil dipstick heater and car warmer, the old 1965 > full size Chevy (they sure did make them big back then) started without > a problem. > > The company had an old CDC 3500 (hey - back then it was new) with > a wonderful operating system that allowed many users to edit their files > on-line and then submit the files as batch jobs to be executed almost > immediately depending on the queue length. > > Now this may seem like a very limited system, but in 1967, even interactive > editing was brand new. And batch jobs were normally submitted via a > card deck - yep - punched cards. > > My initial job was to help upgrade the file structure code from a linear search > of over 3000 files to a hash search of 6000 files. I wrote some code to monitor > how the upgrade was being used and sure enough I predicted a system crash > about an hour before it occurred - the hash algorithm was not re-using vacated > file descriptors - wonderful method, inadequate implementation and checking. > > Next I wrote a system job to use the primitive program that copied one file > at a time from/to disk/tape. The super job read all the file headers and copied > all the specified files from disk to tape and attached a backup number to each > file. That was the nightly backup run. During the noon lull, a five minute job > backed up all the changed or new files for the morning at the next higher backup > level so that any new files could also be recovered without having to backup all > the files. > > Hey - I was asked a question about all those old companies and I mentioned > Snow White (no not the virus - IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs. I remembered six > and want to check if these were the correct seven? > Burroughs > Control Data > DEC > Honeywell > NCR > Univac > Wang > > I don't think Xerox was one at that point in time? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Jul 1 16:55:20 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630181941.01f432d0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010701110043.024a27a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <002501c10278$875c2aa0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 2:03 PM Subject: Nobody does electronics (was Re: Unibus / Qbus bus drivers and receivers > At 06:31 PM 7/1/01 +0100, Tony wrote: > >Or, as in the UK, just about nobody does electronics any more :-( > > Unrelated to classiccmp perhaps, but one thing in the UK and the US that is > rekindling some interest in electronics is BattleBots/Robotwars. These are > basically high powered and armored R/C cars w/weapons that compete in > televised events. Building one of these things requires that you learn a > bit about electronics (and mechanics). There's hope for a few of the > younger generation if they get inspired... It would be nice if they spent more time with the ROBOT's instead of the announcers. Seems to be a common design that is winning most of the events. I think I saw someone on this list have their machine get bumped over the edge recently. I built a 4 motor LEGO robot this afternoon, I think I have to swap the gears for pulleys if it's going to push anything heavy without damaging itself. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 1 17:07:51 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: "Mike Kenzie" "Re: PDP 11/34" (Jul 1, 13:26) References: <3B3F2BCB.F306E8E2@idirect.com> <001601c10252$fd54a000$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <10107012307.ZM12698@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 1, 13:26, Mike Kenzie wrote: > The paper tapes are labelled: These are paper tape versions of XXDP+ diagnostics. There's some documentation on my web page about XXDP. Compaq still list the PDP-11 doc set: ZJADX-GZ PDP11 XXDP DOC. KIT $187.00 (By the way, does anyone have a copy of that? I'm curious to know how complete it is). > DZM91-D-PB Possibly a bootstrap loader or APT monitor program (for the diagnostics) > DZKMA-C1-PB MOS/Core diagnostic test, tests up to 124KW if you set 10000 in the switch register, otherwise tests 0-28KW > DZKAQ-F-PB Some kind of processor test (not processor-specific) or memory test (might be a core-specific test -- worst-case test patterns for core are different from the ones used in ZKMA) > DFKTH-A-PB 11/34 CPU test > DFKAC-A-PB 11/34 CPU test (part 3) > DFKAB-C-PB 11/34 CPU test (part 2) > DFKAA-B1-PB 11/34 CPU test, part 1 (main instructions) > DCMFA-D-PB MF11 diagnostic > DZDLA-F-PB DL11 serial line test (this might need a loopback plug) > DZDLA-F1-PB DL11 serial line test (same test, later revision, I think) Several of these tests change their behaviour slightly according to the contents of the switch register when you run them. I don't have the details for most of these tests (anybody got an XXDP microfiche set?), but taking ZKMA for example: bit 15 set = halt on error bit 14 set = loop in selected subtest (see bits 0-3) bit 13 set = don't print errors bit 12 set = enable memory management bit 11 set = enable parity testing (default is ignore parity bits) bit 10 set = halt after each sub-test bit 9 set = don't do program relocation (so it can't test all of memory) bit 8 set = test in blocks of 4K, and print the first failing bit in each block bit 7 set = enable "long galloping test" (takes a while :-)) bit 6 set = don't size the memory (normally the diagnostic tries to work out how much memory there is to test) bit 5 set = don't print "END PASS xx" (normally does this every time round the loop) bit 4 set = don't print anything bits 0 to 3 are used to select a single subtest. See bit 14. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Jul 1 17:41:54 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: The Seven Dwarfs In-Reply-To: <3B3F8A10.65C1E9D3@aconit.org> References: <200107011937.f61JbLk05452@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010701184114.00ae8c20@pop-server> At 10:37 PM 7/1/01 +0200, you wrote: >I remembered six and want to check if these were the correct seven? > > > Burroughs > > > Control Data > > > DEC > > > Honeywell > > > NCR > > > Univac > > > Wang No, one of them was RCA and Wang was not included. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 18:34:53 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: WTB: Atari Portfolio Message-ID: Anybody out there got an Atari Portfolio (in good condition) with manuals and 1 (or 2!) 64K memory cards they'd like to part with? If so, submit your offers off the list direct to me. Thank you. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. "Scout": Otrona Attache. ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jul 1 18:53:50 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: fun with Standalone Backup In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630205924.023664a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: If you have VMS ANAL/ERR or DECevent should tell of parity problems. Otherwise >>>SHOW MEMORY /FULL should tell of any totally bad pages if supported by your console. On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > On an unrelated note, I've got a Dataram MS650 board (MicroVAX III memory) > and when it is installed it takes a _longish_ time to past the > initialzation tests and standalone backup appears to hang when run. Has > anyone seen this? Is this perhaps a bad memory chip that is being > constantly repaired by the ECC logic... > > --Chuck > -- From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 1 20:39:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <20010701150120.59207.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1970.583T850T1594691optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and >> >> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface >> >> >> >> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? >> >> >Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets. >> >> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single >> mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly >> useful. >I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken. List, what do you say? >> >It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several... >> Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I could scrounge together a >> hard drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable >> (assuming compatibility). >If you want to use it as VAXstation, yes, you need all of those. If you >want to use it as a MicroVAX, you wouldn't need the mouse/keyboard/cable. But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on the D-subs for those annoying DEC modular plugs? And there's still the power question. >> Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the board, >> regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be >> added, like ethernet? >There is a default frame buffer. I have never used it so I don't know >its resolution, scan-rate, etc. It is active when the jumper says to be >a VAXstation, and not active when the jumper says to be a MicroVAX. It's a 1024?864, I think. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > I'll maybe do a giraffe/milk/fridge game for this year's CSSCGC. > That'd be good. Yes. Advanced Giraffe Refrigeration Simulator. All the thrills and 'spills' are here as you manoeuvre the milk and lure the lactophobic animal around a kitchen packed with hazards! ** Actual Spectrum screenshots! ** "It's TOTALLY AMAZING!!!" - David Darling Equin0x, comp.sys.sinclar From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 1 20:30:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy In-Reply-To: <001301c1024a$1849a6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <725.583T900T1504881optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >The thing that might be interesting with NEC1165's would be to compare them >to >3-1/2" drives. Though I'm not certain about it, the power might be >compatible. If not, it just might be a mite risky to package the two drive >types together since the power connectors are the same. These NEC people >made a number of moves of that sort in the early '80's. They built a number >of PC clones that were "almost" clones ... and you know where that led them >... Are you referring to the PC98? At least that machine seemed more fun than the bog-standard PC. BTW, is the PC98 dead nowadays? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 1 20:35:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: WTB: 8" floppy References: <725.583T900T1504881optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000901c10297$43dc1aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I wasn't specifically referring to a model, but to the general run of NEC PC-clones of the early-mid '80's. It seems to me that their story, overall, was that they were intentionally not compatible with the PC, thereby forcing the end-user to buy the software that NEC had to offer. That's what killed them. Later models were, presumably, closer to the "compatibility" mark, hence more generally useable. I never owned/used one of these jewels, but there was considerable chatter about them back then. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 7:30 PM Subject: Re: WTB: 8" floppy > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >The thing that might be interesting with NEC1165's would be to compare them > >to > >3-1/2" drives. Though I'm not certain about it, the power might be > >compatible. If not, it just might be a mite risky to package the two drive > >types together since the power connectors are the same. These NEC people > >made a number of moves of that sort in the early '80's. They built a number > >of PC clones that were "almost" clones ... and you know where that led them > >... > > Are you referring to the PC98? At least that machine seemed more fun than the > bog-standard PC. BTW, is the PC98 dead nowadays? > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish > prison." > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Jul 1 21:11:56 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Any Luck With Bull? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151287@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Hello, Hans... It's been a while since we chatted, and I was wondering if the health of your friend at Bull had improved such that you could once again considering discussing with him the liberation of the Multics source code (and who knows, maybe a bootstrap tape). It'll be a shame if we have to rebuild using the MIT archive, but if that's all we've got, well... Regards, -doug quebbeman From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Jul 1 22:24:56 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: who bought that 11/785 maintenance manual from ebay? Message-ID: <3B3FE988.44A44281@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, did you notice a few weeks abo there was a VAX 11/785 technical maintenacne manual up on ebay. If you are the winning bidder or if you have that manual from elsewhere or if you have bookmarked that auction and can give me the item number so I can contact the winner, I'd appreciate it. Any other ideas where I could get copies of 11/785 tech docs? Thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jul 1 23:19:19 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: who bought that 11/785 maintenance manual from ebay? In-Reply-To: <3B3FE988.44A44281@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <200107020419.XAA23344@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I have field maintenance print sets for the 11/780 and the 11/785. These are rather huge, and 11x17. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > > did you notice a few weeks ago there was a VAX 11/785 technical > maintenance manual up on ebay. If you are the winning bidder or > if you have that manual from elsewhere or if you have bookmarked > that auction and can give me the item number so I can contact the > winner, I'd appreciate it. Any other ideas where I could get > copies of 11/785 tech docs? > > Thanks, > -Gunther From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jul 1 23:42:54 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Free Thinking Machines CM-5 In-Reply-To: <3B3D2A5A.9078A645@tiac.net> Message-ID: > What a shame. This rack was never a real machine, as far as I can tell. It does not have a tag or serial number on it, and since the movie was being filmed pretty much after Thinking Machines sank, it was probably just an extra rack. The blinkenlights panels (yes, they really blink, in one of seven ways) were mounted in a rather non-standard way, complete with black construction paper for light shields. The rack has a power supply for the eight panels, but never had anything else installed (backplanes, more supplies, cables, etc.). So it is really not a shame. In fact, its rebirth as 10,000 Cambell's soup cans will be fairly painless, as four of the panels will be used to populate the network cabinet of a real CM-5. Did you ever work on CM-5s? The damn things have the most complex set of skins ever devised (purely form over function), and frankly, I am stuck. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 2 00:29:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Scrapyard finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994051756.3b4006aca33f2@email.ou.edu> I went to a grandpa-of-a-friend-of-a-friend's scrapyard Saturday. It was one of those disappointing wish-you-were-here-a-month-ago visits. Yes, the guy did have a bunch of Univac stuff. The key word here is 'did'. About a month ago, he loaded it onto 16 pallets and sold it to some people "from China". He said some of it was "never taken out of its original crate". Please give me a second to cause bodily harm to myself. :-( The first cool thing I found was a set of old air traffic control radar stations. They had been out there a *while* and weren't in good condition at all, but they were cool to look at. I found the twisted remnants of what was apparently an old Four Phase switches-and-blinkenlights mini. It looked like it had been out there for several years also. Underneath the layer of grime, the central processor (about the same size as a BA11 box) seemed mostly intact except for a missing faceplate. Anyone know what set of computers this could be? Even though it's hosed, is it a rare enough find that I should buy it and salvage what I can? Next find was called a Raytheon 703 Central Processor. It looks like it has light-up pushbuttons instead of LED/lamps and switches. >From the lights it looks like it has a 16-bit word size and 15-bit addresses. Anyone know what this is? It looks to be in decent condition. Should I pick it up? I found several highly OEM PDP-11 systems that looked like they were some kind of radar controller computer. Unfortunately, the cabinets looked like they had been picked up by the nearby crane and dropped to their present location (i.e., smashed to hell). I'll investigate further when I can bring a can of bug spray to take out the integrated hornet nests. Final find was a set of MicroPDP-11 BA23s, in various states from complete to completely stripped. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From leec at slip.net Mon Jul 2 00:29:58 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: who bought that 11/785 maintenance manual from ebay? In-Reply-To: <200107020419.XAA23344@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: Lawrence, If you ever decide you need the space I'd urge you to donate the field maintenance print sets to The Computer Museum History Center, but let me copy them first. I have a 785 which (hopefully before the upcoming VCF) will be up and running. I'm also interested in any other documentation which might help a very lightweight former VAX user get this system up and keep it running. Thanks! Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence LeMay > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:19 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: who bought that 11/785 maintenance manual from ebay? > > > I have field maintenance print sets for the 11/780 and the 11/785. > These are rather huge, and 11x17. > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > > > > > did you notice a few weeks ago there was a VAX 11/785 technical > > maintenance manual up on ebay. If you are the winning bidder or > > if you have that manual from elsewhere or if you have bookmarked > > that auction and can give me the item number so I can contact the > > winner, I'd appreciate it. Any other ideas where I could get > > copies of 11/785 tech docs? > > > > Thanks, > > -Gunther > From hansp at aconit.org Mon Jul 2 00:36:22 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Any Luck With Bull? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151287@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B400856.5570A570@aconit.org> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Hello, Hans... > It's been a while since we chatted, and I was wondering > if the health of your friend at Bull had improved such > that you could once again considering discussing with > him the liberation of the Multics source code (and who > knows, maybe a bootstrap tape). > > It'll be a shame if we have to rebuild using the MIT > archive, but if that's all we've got, well... AFAIK the efforts to release multics source code are ongoing. I haven't checked on progress recently but I will be in contact with my friend at Bull in the near future and will get an update. I'll keep you informed of significant news. -- HBP From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 2 00:41:11 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: The Seven Dwarfs In-Reply-To: <3B3F8A10.65C1E9D3@aconit.org> References: <200107011937.f61JbLk05452@bg-tc-ppp1151.monmouth.com> <3B3F8A10.65C1E9D3@aconit.org> Message-ID: <994052471.3b4009776046f@email.ou.edu> Anybody remember John Dvorak's "IBM and the Seven Dwarfs" columns in Computer Shopper a few years ago? He gave a short history of a dwarf each month. I should have saved them... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From dancohoe at oxford.net Mon Jul 2 07:29:47 2001 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Eproms Available (was RE: IMSAI EPROMS) References: <78.16fa1e33.286ff085@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B40693B.275ABA0A@oxford.net> Hello Mike: I would like to get a box of these eproms if you go ahead with your plan. I can send you a US Dollar money order, cashable at your Post Office. My address is: Dan Cohoe R R # 2 Burgessville, Ontario Canada N0J 1C0 Thanks, Dan Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > I fell behind in my reading and was catching up today when I came across > Joel A. Weder's posting from 8 Jun 2001 and the > responses on Eproms. > > One of my recent hauls included a box of Eproms. There was around 100 > tubes of 2708/2716/2732. A rough count shows around 1000 2708's, and > 125 or so each of the 2716's & 2732's. Since I will never need that > many, I would like to make them available to the list. > > For now and to be fair to all list members, I was thinking of dividing them > up into 45 (2708 35 ea, 2716 5 ea, 2732 5 ea) to a small box. I'll ask $5 > per box to cover shipping and handling. > > If you really want more than one box, we'll wait and see after those wanting > just one box have had their chance and then figure out shipping for 'bulk' > orders. > > Mike Thompson From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 2 07:57:14 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: OT Celebration In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010702085521.00a86a00@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:48 AM 7/1/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. > >Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the 52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) Joe >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 2 08:18:46 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Zorro I vs Zorro II (was RE: Whats a reasonable collection?) In-Reply-To: <20010701060456.94266.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010629141443.01c9d570@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010702081741.01e244f0@pc> At 11:04 PM 6/30/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> At 12:09 PM 6/29/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >I have personally seen a Zorro I expansion box. It was stolen from the >> >Ohio State University Physics Demonstration Department... >> >> Wasn't the first made by Byte-by-Byte, quite early on? > >Perhaps. I remember Sculpt3D (got a couple of copies) and the joystick >clock (there were also parallel-port clocks in that era). It sounds >plausible, though. I probably have pictures of its launch, somewhere, or they were published in Amazing Computing. I first met Brad Carvey because of his work on this expansion box. - John From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 2 08:59:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: OT Celebration Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715128F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. > > > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the > 52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) Puerto Rico Estado? Uh Uh.... Puerto Rico Libre! (that was the consensus in San Juan... tho one guy said: "Puerto Rico Estado Libre", his way of saying "status quo, please". -dq From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 11:33:21 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <1970.583T850T1594691optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010702163321.8868.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> Ethan Dicks skrev: > >> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single > >> mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly > >> useful. > > >I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken. > > List, what do you say? Through this list, classiccmp@classiccmp.org. That's how I _thought_ I first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken. > But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on the D-subs for those annoying DEC > modular plugs? If you wanted more TTYs than the console, perhaps. Worst case, I suppose, you could build a level-converter board with a MAX-232 chip or 1488/1489 or whatever (DEC also used 9636/9637 pairs IIRC) to go from the D-subs at the edge of the board to something more standard (the 15-pin connector does have two 3-wire serial connections - that clip-on piece converts them to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ) > And there's still the power question. True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick. It's a bunch of work, I'll admit, but it depends on how badly you want a VAX and whether or not you have alternatives. I certainly wouldn't do it if I had another VAX that worked. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 11:44:50 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010702164450.10271.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage > >locker. > > You have VMS V1.0 doc's?!?!?! Out of curiousity how big are they? That's > something that would be very cool to get scanned in. Larger than the RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much smaller than an Orange Wall. I think there are two cartons of binders, so call it 12 volumes of several hundred pages each. I was thinking about these very docs this weekend and the other thread about OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to OCR something like this and, rather than storage as flat text or HTML, attempt to push the text back into RUNOFF. Does anyone have a RUNOFF clone in perl? I presume that excepting strange dependence on odd, undocumented behavior (i.e., plain, by- the-book usage), it wouldn't be difficult to make a state-based RUNOFF engine in perl. obHistory: Software Results did not get a VAX until the 11/750 came out (I still have that one...s/n BT000354, ordered the day they were announced), but they did port the HASPBOX software from the PDP-11/70 to the VAX at DEC's request (on 11/780 s/n 00006, a sales-demo model at the home office, as we were told - DEC had a customer who wouldn't upgrade to a VAX unless it could get files to/from the IBM mainframe, just like his PDP-11 ;-) I presume the docs came out of that early developement effort. The next time I am at the storage unit, I will look for the manuals. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 2 12:15:38 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS) In-Reply-To: <20010702164450.10271.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >Larger than the RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much smaller than an >>Orange Wall. I think there are two cartons of binders, so call it 12 >>volumes of several hundred pages each. OK, definitly bigger than I was thinking. Though when you say an Orange Wall I guess you're talking VAX/VMS V4 not RT-11 V5.x (which unless I just miscounted is 9 volumes). >I was thinking about these very docs this weekend and the other thread >>about OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it >to OCR something like this and, rather than storage as flat text or >HTML, attempt to push the text back into RUNOFF. Does anyone have a >RUNOFF clone in perl? I presume that excepting strange dependence on >odd, undocumented behavior (i.e., plain, by-the-book usage), it >wouldn't be difficult to make a state-based RUNOFF engine in perl. Something to consider. If you scan it in at 300-600dpi into Adobe Acrobat files you produce a usable copy without any errors (unless you should miss a page). OTOH, if you OCR it you're adding a LOT of work *and* adding the large possibility of errors creeping in. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 2 12:19:40 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: KIM-1 Message-ID: <10107021819.ZM13237@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I've just been offered a KIM-1 by a friend, and I'd like to give him something for it. Does anyone have suggestions as to its value? It's a revision G board, with a date code of 1178 (well, I assume that's the date code) and has the Commodore and MOS logos in the top right, with a large "F" and a small "8" stamped in black ink under the "KIM-1" name. It has all black plastic chips (not any white ceramic like some early ones), and the RAM chips are NEC 2102's rather than MOS 6102's. It's been well used but was working last time anyone tried it. Don't yet know if there are any manuals -- though I've found copies on the 'net. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 12:33:09 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <200107011713.f61HD4b01213@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010702173309.90329.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3?... > > Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me. Sorry. I don't tend to over-edit attributions, so perhaps you were the only name at the top when it got to me and I didn't notice that the part you did write didn't make it in the final version. In any case, my apologies if any aspersions were cast. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 12:34:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <20010701175851.KBUV2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010702173430.36409.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> > > From: "Mike Kenzie" > > To: > > Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 > > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:26:38 -0400 > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org A tip... even if your wife won't let the computers in the house, you should bring any magnetic media inside. Papertape, if stored dry, of course, isn't a problem, but watch out for rodents. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 12:40:44 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010702174044.484.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >Larger than the RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much smaller than an > >>Orange Wall. > > OK, definitly bigger than I was thinking. Though when you say an Orange > Wall I guess you're talking VAX/VMS V4 not RT-11 V5.x (which unless I just > miscounted is 9 volumes). Right. VMS V4, not RT-11 V5.x. Speaking of which, I also happen to have said Orange Wall and a Grey Wall (VMS V5.x) in the attic. For that matter, I'll check tonight if the VMS 1.0 docs are upstairs, but I don't think so. > >I was thinking about these very docs this weekend and the other thread > >>about OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it > >to OCR something like this and... push the text back into RUNOFF. > Something to consider. If you scan it in at 300-600dpi into Adobe Acrobat > files you produce a usable copy without any errors (unless you should miss > a page). Right, and if I were scanning it in, I'd probably spin it off that way. > OTOH, if you OCR it you're adding a LOT of work *and* adding the > large possibility of errors creeping in. It would be at least one order of magnitude of work larger, and would require much review and editing, but I'm just trying to consider if it's worth doing. I did a similar task on a 4-page table of Commodore ROM versions and spent lots of time validating the data, much more time than scanning, as you might expect. Given that VMS 1.0 is largely a curiosity, probably not. Some later version of OS/8 might be viable (smaller dataset, larger user base). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 2 12:04:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: KIM-1 In-Reply-To: <10107021819.ZM13237@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > I've just been offered a KIM-1 by a friend, and I'd like to give him > something for it. Does anyone have suggestions as to its value? > > It's a revision G board, with a date code of 1178 (well, I assume that's > the date code) and has the Commodore and MOS logos in the top right, with a > large "F" and a small "8" stamped in black ink under the "KIM-1" name. It > has all black plastic chips (not any white ceramic like some early ones), > and the RAM chips are NEC 2102's rather than MOS 6102's. It's been well > used but was working last time anyone tried it. $50 should suffice. $100 if you're feeling extremely generous. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 2 13:11:23 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: 'Good' versions of VMS In-Reply-To: <20010702173309.90329.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 02, 2001 10:33:09 AM Message-ID: <200107021811.f62IBNg05552@narnia.int.dittman.net> > --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3?... > > > > Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me. > > Sorry. I don't tend to over-edit attributions, so perhaps you were the only > name at the top when it got to me and I didn't notice that the part you did > write didn't make it in the final version. In any case, my apologies if any > aspersions were cast. No aspersions, I just find that people tend to send email based on the attributions, so I didn't want anyone mislead. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 2 13:35:48 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Pro350 Message-ID: <200107021835.f62IZmP05644@narnia.int.dittman.net> I am in touch with a guy that has a Pro350 for sale. He wants $100 for it. Is anyone interested? I don't think he wants to come down any. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 2 13:45:24 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <20010702163321.8868.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107021845.UAA02531@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2 Jul, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Through this list, classiccmp@classiccmp.org. That's how I _thought_ I > first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken. The VS2k SCSI boot ROM patches are available at: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/ I applied this patch to my VS2k boot ROM and it worked. (= I was able to load the NetBSD first stage boot loader and a friend was able to boot VMS.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 3 01:55:39 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP 7970E tape drive woes References: Message-ID: <038a01c1038d$2bff2ca0$0f8953d1@jay> Greetings and a question for the list.... My HP7970E tape drive is *sick* (plus I just blew the 30v supply in my HP2100A, but that's a whole other story about me and Murphy's Laws on getting HP2000 Access up and running). Do others find that resurrecting these old systems causes a propensity to drink excessively? *GRIN* On to the question... The 7970E passes all the mechanical tests via the switches internal to the unit (tape speeds & motion basically). It fails the read/write test portion of the diagnostics (but does pass interrupt/DMA tests so I suspect the interface boards are ok). Is anyone particularly familiar with these beasts and can suggest a course of action? I have all the "theory of operation" and "maintenance" manuals (as well as schematics), but they are two 4 inch thick manuals and a lot of it is way over my head. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction to at least get me started - or better yet, anyone have a 7970E up and running that would be willing to loan me some boards to test mine via boardswapping?? Thanks for any info (or condolences & empathy) anyone can provide! Jay West From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 3 02:27:17 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <000d01c10218$8a585540$7c8953d1@jay> <3B3F3AF9.87FAF246@tiac.net> Message-ID: <03a601c10391$9755ac00$0f8953d1@jay> Bob wrote... > "Incorrect" may have been a poor choice of words....however I have documentation > > that shows a HP2100 shipped by HP with the older reader interface board. In > fact > one of the reader boards I have was removed from a basket-case 2100 system. > > I wounder when HP switched over, and why? No Kidding!? That's truely interesting. You have my curiosity up, I'd love to know what the deal is for my own future reference. I do have a lot of sales literature and marketing collateral for these systems, and all of them show the 2748B paper tape reader as using an 8-bit duplex register board. Hummmmmmm.... You know what - is it possible that the ones that use this "tape reader interface board" that you've seen are the 2748A reader and the B version uses the 8-bit duplex register board? All the literature and docs I have shows the 2748B, I have nothing that relates to the 2748A which is why I'm conjecturing this. One wouldn't think that HP would release a board with the same electrical specs as the 8-bit duplex board, so wouldn't you think the electronics in the reader would have to be different for the two boards? Most interesting... could you check and see if your reader is the A one that uses this board Bob? Or maybe show us a pinout of the old style reader interface vs. the new style? > Umm, how is the 2114 not an HP machine? (The 2114 was developed by HP.) > > Your thinking of the 2116 perhaps, which was originally developed by a small > firm that > HP later absorbed? I knew the first 21xx machine was already designed and put together by another company, and HP just absorbed the company. When they saw how sucessfull it was, they then came out with the other two. I was thinking this first one was the 2114, and the HP made ones were the 2115 and 2116. I stand humbly corrected - must be the 2116 that was absorbed and they made the other two. The 2100 did come later. Interesting tidbit - one of HP's largest users of the 2100 system was a company called "MeasureX". This company had it's own engineering staff and redesigned the 2100 to be a single cpu card. They sold this design back to HP and it became the 21MX line. The MX in 21MX stands for MeasureX. I got this directly from a phone call with the former VP of engineering of MeasureX, so I suspect it is accurate historically. > at least 1 2100A shipped using the older style interface board I'm just wild guessing here, but is it possible that the 2100A that you got had the tape reader (old style) added later and wasn't actually sold that way from HP? The reason I'm wondering this is I have the sales/ordering guide for the 2100A and the 2100S, and both only specify the 8-bit duplex register. Most Strange! My earlier comments were based on the HP sales/ordering guide, and in retrospect you're quite right, those guides were almost certainly revised from time to time and earlier ones than mine might indeed use the old style reader board. Again, I'm wondering if it's not the A reader that used it? > What is your definition of a '2100 machine'? > > 2114, 2115, and 2116 machines run HP 2100 software, and were the original > processors > used in HP2000 time share basic systems. They originated the HP board interface > used > all the way up to the MX and E series. The software on the HP2100 archive site > is that > which originally shipped with 2114 thru 2116 systems. > > If these classic machines are not 2100's, then what are they? >From the sales/ordering guides that I have (but perhaps I'm reading them wrong or drawing incorrect conclusions): The 2100 machine is a 2100 machine. 2100 was not a family or class of machines, it was a specific machine (2100 with option pack A or S). There is no difference in the A and S versions except the S version included options as standard which were also available from the outset on the A. From what I can gather, the 2114/5/6 machines were not referred to as "2100's", they were referred to as 2114/5/6. Part of my basis for this is logical - they wouldn't name the 2100 (which came later) a 2100 if that was the generic family name for the 2114/5/6 machines I'm guessing. The early nomenclature of HP's mini products is *SO* confusing... cpu's that were called 21MX's were later redesignated 1000 machines, etc. Plus the whole 2000 thing that doesn't refer to a computer, but rather a specific configuration of both hardware and software (for TSB). What a mess. What's your take on this Bob? Regards, Jay West From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 3 02:58:03 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: Message-ID: <03bf01c10395$e36f09c0$0f8953d1@jay> More info.... Just was digging for the repair/maintenance manual on the 2100 power supply (see previous message *GRIN*)... Came across a manual I had forgotten I had... The "1970 HP measurement, analysis, and computation reference catalog". It has the 2114/5/6 B version systems in it. It does specify there is an 8-bit duplex register board, so that board existed at the time. The paper tape reader isn't a 2748A/B variety, it's listed as a 2737A punched tape reader using (included) a 12532A interface. The 12532A obviously isn't a dup reg board :) (the kit listed at $2100 by the way). This catalog also has the 2000A timeshared basic system (using a 2116) and it specifies a paper tape reader is included, it's also the 2737A with a 12532A interface. Is this 12532A interface that I've never heard of the original tape reader interface you're referring to Bob? I'm not familiar with the 2737A reader, is it possible the 2737A used the old style interface and the 2748 used the later one? Surely someone knows this for sure! Here's some rather historically interesting l970 list prices for those fellow HP'ers on the list: 2116B cpu, $24,000 (8K) 2115A cpu, $14,500 (4k) or $19,500 (8K) 2114B cpu, $8,500 (4K) or $13,000 (8K) 2773A drum memory with 2776A power supply, $23,500 (393,216 16bit words, transfer rate 120Kw/sec, access time 8.7ms average) For those on the list into the 9100 calculator/computers, 1970 list price for the 9100A was $4400 and the 9100B was $4900. Jay West From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 15:26:17 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <200107021845.UAA02531@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20010702202617.18209.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > The VS2k SCSI boot ROM patches are available at: > ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/ Thank you... I was going to post this, but I didn't have my old bookmark file handy. > I applied this patch to my VS2k boot ROM and it worked. (= I was able > to load the NetBSD first stage boot loader and a friend was able to boot > VMS.) Since I had an older version of the ROMs, I could not patch my existing ones, so I had to aquire a binary file of the entire contents pre-patched. So I have this file, and I have split it into 4 parts and burned it onto 4 ROMs. Does anyone have any idea which socket on the KA410 corresponds to which bytes of a quad-word? Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 15:57:49 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? Message-ID: Want me to look up the board for the 2748B? I own both a 2748B and the manual for it, so I can see what the manual says is correct... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ecloud at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 2 16:09:35 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: IBM 604 Message-ID: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Interesting article here: http://www.ddj.com/columns/history/2001/0106hc/0106hc001.htm -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 2 16:43:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: KIM-1 References: <10107021819.ZM13237@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <001d01c1033f$ffe97f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If the KIM-1 seems to work properly, i.e. all the keypad switches are in working order and legible, and the display works OK, $100 wouldn't be too much, provided it's clean and complete with doc's. If not, well ... If you plan to use it a lot, I'd recommend installing an external keypad and perhaps a larger display, to preserve the existing keypad, and your eyes, respectively. If you look back in the archive about 6 months or so, there was considerable discussion about the keypad and display. The KIM-1 is an interesting device because it was cooked up as a demo environment for the MOS-Technology line of LSI's, yet became quite popular in the computer hobbyist community. I see no real reason for that, but it was a BIG seller. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: KIM-1 > I've just been offered a KIM-1 by a friend, and I'd like to give him > something for it. Does anyone have suggestions as to its value? > > It's a revision G board, with a date code of 1178 (well, I assume that's > the date code) and has the Commodore and MOS logos in the top right, with a > large "F" and a small "8" stamped in black ink under the "KIM-1" name. It > has all black plastic chips (not any white ceramic like some early ones), > and the RAM chips are NEC 2102's rather than MOS 6102's. It's been well > used but was working last time anyone tried it. > > Don't yet know if there are any manuals -- though I've found copies on the > 'net. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 2 16:23:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Ottawa (storing stuff) was: Re: PDP 11/34 In-Reply-To: <20010702173430.36409.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010701175851.KBUV2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >A tip... even if your wife won't let the computers in the house, you >should bring any magnetic media inside. Papertape, if stored dry, of >course, isn't a problem, but watch out for rodents. Not just rodents, but the whole litany of smaller creepy crawlies. Either use a way station, ie open well lighted spot in garage, or better use some gloves and repack the whole mess into clean containers with lids etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 2 16:17:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: KIM-1 In-Reply-To: <10107021819.ZM13237@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >I've just been offered a KIM-1 by a friend, and I'd like to give him >something for it. Does anyone have suggestions as to its value? Unless the person needs or is really expecting money, consider giving them something in exchange. While I think cash is dandy with people you don't know, there is NO right amount among friends, especially for something unique. I am more comfortable with cash for commodity items. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 2 17:48:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: New finds at a school auction In-Reply-To: <01c101c1016b$b910d0e0$9e701fd1@default> Message-ID: >Wednesday of this week I went to a school auction and came away 3 new in >the stuff that they will be trashing. You could buy a lot for $1 >(sometimes the lot would have over 100 items in it), the prices were >right but just too much stuff. Sad but true. Half the time the stuff isn't palletized correctly, and everything on the bottom is squeeshed (not broken, but say all the metal panels on the apple II's bent, keys off etc.). In the past I have taken the time to scrap out whole pallets, but ONLY when I can see some examples of decent contents poking out the back of the computers. Last time I went through two pallets, and took away about a grocery bags worth of cards, mostly that I now would not keep any more of. What made it worthwhile were about a dozen or so nice cards, 3 high speed SCSI, some workstation cards, larger ram cards, and 3 or 4 very clean units, one of which had an internal hard drive. What made it work was that I was able to pillage the pallets on site, ie take what I wanted and leave the rest on the pallets stacked as I found it. The only other option I would be agreeable too is to completely scrap the units I didn't want, with access to a dumpster for the cases. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 18:41:10 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Free Thinking Machines CM-5 References: Message-ID: <3B410695.A6963535@tiac.net> No sir, I only worked on the original CM-1 prototypes. I was a junior engineer for TMI long long ago, and designed some (minor) parts of the CM-1's such as the system staus panels, power supply margining scheme, and a clock distribution ECO that de-skewed the early hardware. TMI was a very odd place to work. The mechanical engineer for the Connection Machines was a really brilliant engineer. I can't place his name at the moment, but I do recall him telling me that very early in his carreer, he had gotten to do some mechanical design for the electronics modules that went to the moon on the Apollo missions. William Donzelli wrote: > > What a shame. > > This rack was never a real machine, as far as I can tell. It does not have > a tag or serial number on it, and since the movie was being filmed pretty > much after Thinking Machines sank, it was probably just an extra rack. The > blinkenlights panels (yes, they really blink, in one of seven ways) were > mounted in a rather non-standard way, complete with black construction > paper for light shields. The rack has a power supply for the eight panels, > but never had anything else installed (backplanes, more supplies, cables, > etc.). > > So it is really not a shame. In fact, its rebirth as 10,000 Cambell's > soup cans will be fairly painless, as four of the panels will be used to > populate the network cabinet of a real CM-5. > > Did you ever work on CM-5s? The damn things have the most complex set of > skins ever devised (purely form over function), and frankly, I am stuck. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 18:43:07 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: Scrapyard finds References: <994051756.3b4006aca33f2@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B41070B.39D47417@tiac.net> Ohhh, and RCA 703 eh? I've been after an RCA 704 for a long while, for no good reason. Personally, I'd jump on the 703 in a heartbeat. What kind of shape is it in? "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > I went to a grandpa-of-a-friend-of-a-friend's scrapyard Saturday. > It was one of those disappointing wish-you-were-here-a-month-ago > visits. Yes, the guy did have a bunch of Univac stuff. The key > word here is 'did'. About a month ago, he loaded it onto 16 > pallets and sold it to some people "from China". He said some of > it was "never taken out of its original crate". Please give me a > second to cause bodily harm to myself. :-( > > The first cool thing I found was a set of old air traffic control > radar stations. They had been out there a *while* and weren't in > good condition at all, but they were cool to look at. > > I found the twisted remnants of what was apparently an old Four > Phase switches-and-blinkenlights mini. It looked like it had been > out there for several years also. Underneath the layer of grime, > the central processor (about the same size as a BA11 box) seemed > mostly intact except for a missing faceplate. Anyone know what set > of computers this could be? Even though it's hosed, is it a rare > enough find that I should buy it and salvage what I can? > > Next find was called a Raytheon 703 Central Processor. It looks > like it has light-up pushbuttons instead of LED/lamps and switches. > >From the lights it looks like it has a 16-bit word size and 15-bit > addresses. Anyone know what this is? It looks to be in decent > condition. Should I pick it up? > > I found several highly OEM PDP-11 systems that looked like they > were some kind of radar controller computer. Unfortunately, the > cabinets looked like they had been picked up by the nearby crane > and dropped to their present location (i.e., smashed to hell). > I'll investigate further when I can bring a can of bug spray to > take out the integrated hornet nests. > > Final find was a set of MicroPDP-11 BA23s, in various states from > complete to completely stripped. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 18:54:27 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP 7970E tape drive woes References: <038a01c1038d$2bff2ca0$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B4109B3.F0902A85@tiac.net> I have a HP7970E. Where are you located Jay? Jay West wrote: > Greetings and a question for the list.... > > My HP7970E tape drive is *sick* (plus I just blew the 30v supply in my > HP2100A, but that's a whole other story about me and Murphy's Laws on > getting HP2000 Access up and running). Do others find that resurrecting > these old systems causes a propensity to drink excessively? *GRIN* > > On to the question... The 7970E passes all the mechanical tests via the > switches internal to the unit (tape speeds & motion basically). It fails the > read/write test portion of the diagnostics (but does pass interrupt/DMA > tests so I suspect the interface boards are ok). Is anyone particularly > familiar with these beasts and can suggest a course of action? I have all > the "theory of operation" and "maintenance" manuals (as well as schematics), > but they are two 4 inch thick manuals and a lot of it is way over my head. > Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction to at least get me > started - or better yet, anyone have a 7970E up and running that would be > willing to loan me some boards to test mine via boardswapping?? > > Thanks for any info (or condolences & empathy) anyone can provide! > > Jay West From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 19:13:52 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <000d01c10218$8a585540$7c8953d1@jay> <3B3F3AF9.87FAF246@tiac.net> <03a601c10391$9755ac00$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B410E40.6D87FE62@tiac.net> I've done some digging, and I think I have some new info... Jay West wrote: > Bob wrote... > > "Incorrect" may have been a poor choice of words....however I have > documentation > > > > that shows a HP2100 shipped by HP with the older reader interface board. > In > > fact > > one of the reader boards I have was removed from a basket-case 2100 > system. > > > > I wounder when HP switched over, and why? > > No Kidding!? That's truely interesting. You have my curiosity up, I'd love > to know what the deal is for my own future reference. Apparently HP switched from the dedicated tape reader board sometime in the early 1970's. I located a guide to HP interface cards that describes the 8 bit duplex board as being used with the HP2748A and B, as well as the tape punch. The older 'Tape Reader' board could never drive a punch, its only an 8 bit transistor drive input port, with flag and control bits. My current guess is that sometime during the transition from the 2100 to the M series machines, when logic had gotten cheap, they dropped the tape reader board and used the 8 bit duplex board as both the reader replacement interface, and also as the punch interface. But I gather that if you had a punch and reader on a M-series box, you had 2 8 bit duplex boards...is this correct? The old-style tape reader board also interfaced to the HP2847 readers, which had the same ITT-Cannon connector as the '48's. > I do have a lot of sales literature and marketing collateral for these > systems, and all of them show the 2748B paper tape reader as using an 8-bit > duplex register board. Hummmmmmm.... You know what - is it possible that the > ones that use this "tape reader interface board" that you've seen are the > 2748A reader and the B version uses the 8-bit duplex register board? All the > literature and docs I have shows the 2748B, I have nothing that relates to > the 2748A which is why I'm conjecturing this. One wouldn't think that HP > would release a board with the same electrical specs as the 8-bit duplex > board, so wouldn't you think the electronics in the reader would have to be > different for the two boards? Most interesting... could you check and see if > your reader is the A one that uses this board Bob? Or maybe show us a pinout > of the old style reader interface vs. the new style? I can post the pin-out for the HP Tape Reader board, its totally different than the 8 bit duplex board. There are 4 bits of data on the top left, and 4 bits on the bottom left of the I/O finger connector. Of course the duplex register has all 8 bits of each direction on one side of the board, etc. As for readers themselves, I've had too many problems with the clutches, and some of my paper tapes are a bit fragile, so I copied them onto eproms and built an emulator. Frankly, I'm not sure I still have any physical HP readers. The last actual reader I used is an older Decitek... At least one old HP reader was canabilized to make my first reader emulator... > > Umm, how is the 2114 not an HP machine? (The 2114 was developed by HP.) > > > > Your thinking of the 2116 perhaps, which was originally developed by a > small > > firm that > > HP later absorbed? > > I knew the first 21xx machine was already designed and put together by > another company, and HP just absorbed the company. When they saw how > sucessfull it was, they then came out with the other two. I was thinking > this first one was the 2114, and the HP made ones were the 2115 and 2116. I > stand humbly corrected - must be the 2116 that was absorbed and they made > the other two. The 2100 did come later. Interesting tidbit - one of HP's > largest users of the 2100 system was a company called "MeasureX". This > company had it's own engineering staff and redesigned the 2100 to be a > single cpu card. They sold this design back to HP and it became the 21MX > line. The MX in 21MX stands for MeasureX. I got this directly from a phone > call with the former VP of engineering of MeasureX, so I suspect it is > accurate historically. What we know today as the HP2116 machines were developed by Dymec Instruments. This is the same firm that developed the HP2401 digital volt meter (with nixi tubes!). Dymec was absorbed into HP, and so began HP's computer systems division. I may be mistaken, but I think a friend actually has a re-badged Dymec 2116! > > > at least 1 2100A shipped using the older style interface board > > I'm just wild guessing here, but is it possible that the 2100A that you got > had the tape reader (old style) added later and wasn't actually sold that > way from HP? The reason I'm wondering this is I have the sales/ordering > guide for the 2100A and the 2100S, and both only specify the 8-bit duplex > register. Most Strange! My earlier comments were based on the HP > sales/ordering guide, and in retrospect you're quite right, those guides > were almost certainly revised from time to time and earlier ones than mine > might indeed use the old style reader board. Again, I'm wondering if it's > not the A reader that used it? Hmmm, that was a long time ago. I cannot say if the 2100A used the A or B reader, but the old-style reader board workes all the way back to the 2747 reader, so I suspect that the interface never changed. The 8 bit duplex register board does use the same logic levels, assuming your have an inverted duplex register. As for the 2100A I found with a old-style interface, that machine had come out of MIT so its an easy bet people had been screwing around with the configuration. If your super-curious, I have the old-style board and cable. I suspect it will plug into your 2748B and run perfectly. > > What is your definition of a '2100 machine'? > > > > 2114, 2115, and 2116 machines run HP 2100 software, and were the original > > processors > > used in HP2000 time share basic systems. They originated the HP board > interface > > used > > all the way up to the MX and E series. The software on the HP2100 archive > site > > is that > > which originally shipped with 2114 thru 2116 systems. > > > > If these classic machines are not 2100's, then what are they? > > >From the sales/ordering guides that I have (but perhaps I'm reading them > wrong or drawing incorrect conclusions): The 2100 machine is a 2100 machine. > 2100 was not a family or class of machines, it was a specific machine (2100 > with option pack A or S). There is no difference in the A and S versions > except the S version included options as standard which were also available > from the outset on the A. From what I can gather, the 2114/5/6 machines were > not referred to as "2100's", they were referred to as 2114/5/6. Part of my > basis for this is logical - they wouldn't name the 2100 (which came later) a > 2100 if that was the generic family name for the 2114/5/6 machines I'm > guessing. The early nomenclature of HP's mini products is *SO* confusing... > cpu's that were called 21MX's were later redesignated 1000 machines, etc. > Plus the whole 2000 thing that doesn't refer to a computer, but rather a > specific configuration of both hardware and software (for TSB). What a mess. > What's your take on this Bob? > > Regards, > > Jay West Hmmm, you could get a HP time share basic system with a 2116 (original version) or a 2100A, so to my eyes, the 2100 is simply another model in the same line as the 2114 through 2116. But the 2100's look and feel, and style of construction is totally different from the earlier machines. I just don't know. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 2 19:25:25 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:16 2005 Subject: HP2748A papertape reader : connector ? References: <03bf01c10395$e36f09c0$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <3B4110F5.FC2A3E83@tiac.net> Jay West wrote: > More info.... > > Just was digging for the repair/maintenance manual on the 2100 power supply > (see previous message *GRIN*)... > > Came across a manual I had forgotten I had... The "1970 HP measurement, > analysis, and computation reference catalog". > > It has the 2114/5/6 B version systems in it. It does specify there is an > 8-bit duplex register board, so that board existed at the time. The paper > tape reader isn't a 2748A/B variety, it's listed as a 2737A punched tape > reader using (included) a 12532A interface. The 12532A obviously isn't a dup > reg board :) (the kit listed at $2100 by the way). This catalog also has the > 2000A timeshared basic system (using a 2116) and it specifies a paper tape > reader is included, it's also the 2737A with a 12532A interface. Is this > 12532A interface that I've never heard of the original tape reader interface > you're referring to Bob? I have references to the 8 bit duplex board existing in 1969, so I have no doubt of its existance in the same period as the dedicated tape reader I/F. The old-style reader board I have in my hand does not carry any part number like 12532A at all. There are number such as: 02116-8002 (in etch) ASSY 02116-6002 (in black ink) 72189 (printed on a silver and black adhesive lable near the extractor handle) 9102951 (printed in black ink on a clear adhesive lable) In my past posts I refered to a HP2747 reader. I was mistaken. That earlier reader is the 2737. This reader uses a special lamp with a long filament to shine over a series of photodiodes that read the tape. This special lamp is a real pain, as with age the filament would droop and you had to rotate the bulb in place to keep the filament in line over the reader pickup. Also, the mechanical clutch suffered a good deal of wear and tare. Not an especially good reader. > I'm not familiar with the 2737A reader, is it possible the 2737A used the > old style interface and the 2748 used the later one? Surely someone knows > this for sure! Absolutely not. I had the early ('37) reader, and upgraded to the later model, but I never replaced my cable nor interface card. > Here's some rather historically interesting l970 list prices for those > fellow HP'ers on the list: > > 2116B cpu, $24,000 (8K) > 2115A cpu, $14,500 (4k) or $19,500 (8K) > 2114B cpu, $8,500 (4K) or $13,000 (8K) > 2773A drum memory with 2776A power supply, $23,500 (393,216 16bit words, > transfer rate 120Kw/sec, access time 8.7ms average) Ooooooo! HP Drum memory! Oh how I want one..... > For those on the list into the 9100 calculator/computers, 1970 list price > for the 9100A was $4400 and the 9100B was $4900. > > Jay West From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jul 2 19:57:49 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> >Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Interesting article here: > http://www.ddj.com/columns/history/2001/0106hc/0106hc001.htm Jerome Fine replies: Figure 3 sure looks similar to what I remember of an IBM 650 that I used in 1960, some ten years later. The reader/punch was still the same. I also feel that the actual IBM 650 unit was similar in looks on the outside to the IBM 604 shown. But inside, there must have been a huge difference. The IBM 650 allowed 3 drums (if I remember correctly - or maybe one big one that was 3 times the size of the minimum variety). In any case, the system I first cut my real computing teeth on (I had had some acquaintance with computers about two years prior when I worked for an insurance company during the summer) was an IBM 650 unit with 6000 words (10 decimal digits each) which could represent either one instruction or one integer/floating point number. The address range for the words was 0000 to 5999 and the op code in each instruction was the first two decimal digits (no new fangled binary in an IBM 650 at this point). Two operands followed with the first being a data value and the second operand always being the address of the next instruction. SOAP (Symbolic Optimal Assembly Program) was used to place the next instruction on the drum in a location based on how long the operation took and where the drum would be in that time. Obviously, the experienced programmer place all inner loops at the very start of the program with both initiation code and termination code coming at the end when it did not matter if all the best locations had been used. The IBM 650 I work with also had 60 words (address 9000 to 9059) of directly addressable storage - I guess in vacuum tube circuits. These were almost always used for data with only the smallest of inner loops being place there for speed. Both input and output for the IBM 650 was punched cards - a 704 was used to list the SOAP output at one instruction per card and another program converted that deck of cards to more than one instruction per card - either 3 or 5 or 7 if I remember correctly - with the maximum being 7 (since 7 * 10 = 70 and 4 columns were reserved for for the load address) and each card in the program deck was numbered in the last 4 columns - I think In any case, as slow as the IBM 650 was by today's standards, it was very fast compared to a mechanical calculating machine that took seconds to do a multiply and tens of seconds to do a division if that were even possible - could a Frieden do a division? What this reply is about is that even ten years later (1960 as opposed to the depicted systems in 1948), the pace of change was still slow and IBM was still THE IBM and the seven dwarfs were just starting to poke up their collective heads. Very little changed between 1950 to 1960 except that the stage was being set for the changes that were to come by 1970 by which time transistors were totally dominant and mass??? storage had arrived in the form of core memory measured in KBytes. The growth seems to have been exponential ever since. Now that was just 40 years ago. What will computers be like in 2040? Those youngsters whose first computer was a Pentium can't even begin to realize how far commercial computing has gone in just 50 years. While the HAL in 2001 may be another 50 years or even a hundred years, eventually there will be programs that will begin to rival the lower level of normal human administrative functions which do not require any imagination and which a canned program will be able to manage in a competent manner. But this last paragraph is the future and OT. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Mon Jul 2 20:07:25 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia auction Message-ID: Because of the interest, I have decided to hold a sealed bid auction for the complete set of Micro Cornucopia magazines. Every issue from #1 (July 1981, 16 pages) to #53 (May 1990, 96 pages) is here. The subheading started out "Journal of the Big Board Users", changed with #7 to "The Single Board Systems Journal", and finally changed with #23 to "The Micro Technical Journal". Topics covered included software--BASIC, Pascal, C, Forth, Smalltalk, Prolog, Wordstar, dBase II, CP/M, MS-DOS, and much more--and hardware--memory upgrades, EPROM erasers, a logic analyzer, video circuitry, even a complete Nat Semi 32000 chip set computer with circuit diagrams. The early issues have almost exclusively Big Board, CP/M, and Z80 content. The final issues have almost exclusively MS-DOS PC content. In the middle there is an incredible variety of hard-core technical articles. Almost all the issues are perfect. The early issues I purchased as back issues so they do not even have mailing labels on them. Issue 21, December-January 1985, has "Sample for Microsystems Readers" printed in red on the front; Micro Cornucopia was trying to pick up subscribers from Sol Libes' magazine that folded. That was my first issue and every issue from #21 on has mailing labels on them. Issue 29 is damaged; it appears that this one was on the end of a bundle--the cover is scuffed and there are small tears at the top and bottom from the binding strap. End of auction is Friday 6 July 2001 at 8pm. Send bids to paul@wccnet.org. Highest bidder wins (duh!). Payment is by check or money order and must be received within 30 days (6 August) of auction end. Shipping costs are IN ADDITION to the bid amount. I can ship via US Mail or UPS. The magazines weigh about 24 pounds and would cost about $9 to ship USPS Media Mail without insurance. Shipping is from Monroe, Michigan 48161. No shipping charges if you pick it up, of course. I will repost this notice on Thursday. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA paul@wccnet.org From leec at slip.net Mon Jul 2 20:11:20 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: HP 7970E tape drive woes In-Reply-To: <038a01c1038d$2bff2ca0$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: Jay, When I was at HP many years ago (left in 1987) I ran across a guy (of course I can;t remember his name) who collected and repaired 7970's as a hobby. I'll try and dig up his name. Ping me if you haven;t heard anything from me in a couple weeks. BTW, what's your email address - the list hides it from me. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:56 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: HP 7970E tape drive woes > > > Greetings and a question for the list.... > > My HP7970E tape drive is *sick* (plus I just blew the 30v supply in my > HP2100A, but that's a whole other story about me and Murphy's Laws on > getting HP2000 Access up and running). Do others find that resurrecting > these old systems causes a propensity to drink excessively? *GRIN* > > On to the question... The 7970E passes all the mechanical tests via the > switches internal to the unit (tape speeds & motion basically). > It fails the > read/write test portion of the diagnostics (but does pass interrupt/DMA > tests so I suspect the interface boards are ok). Is anyone particularly > familiar with these beasts and can suggest a course of action? I have all > the "theory of operation" and "maintenance" manuals (as well as > schematics), > but they are two 4 inch thick manuals and a lot of it is way over my head. > Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction to at least get me > started - or better yet, anyone have a 7970E up and running that would be > willing to loan me some boards to test mine via boardswapping?? > > Thanks for any info (or condolences & empathy) anyone can provide! > > Jay West > > > > From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 2 20:06:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <20010702163321.8868.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1964.584T1800T1265617optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a >> >> single mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is >> >> truly useful. >> >> >I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken. >> >> List, what do you say? >Through this list, classiccmp@classiccmp.org. That's how I _thought_ I >first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken. I'm trying to get a confirmation from other list members. =) >> But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on the D-subs for those annoying >> DEC modular plugs? >If you wanted more TTYs than the console, perhaps. Worst case, I suppose, >you could build a level-converter board with a MAX-232 chip or 1488/1489 >or whatever (DEC also used 9636/9637 pairs IIRC) to go from the D-subs >at the edge of the board to something more standard (the 15-pin connector >does have two 3-wire serial connections - that clip-on piece converts them >to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ) RS-432 really won't do me any good. So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? >> And there's still the power question. >True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply >for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick. "Those"? > >It's a bunch of work, I'll admit, but it depends on how badly you want >a VAX and whether or not you have alternatives. I certainly wouldn't >do it if I had another VAX that worked. Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble with the DEQNA in our GPX). And running such a machine without ethernet is no fun, I'm so spoiled nowadays. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL! TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER! From curt at atari-history.com Mon Jul 2 21:05:31 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: PDF file of Canon CAT instructions.... References: <725.583T900T1504881optimus@canit.se> <000901c10297$43dc1aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000901c10364$a3390300$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Hi everyone.... I know I'm a bit slow, but here is the link to the Adobe PDF file of the handwritten instructions for using the Canon CAT, enjoy. http://www.atari-history.com/archives/pdf/misc/canon_cat.pdf Sellam, I'll bring a few VHS tapes of the Canon Cat video with me to VCF East for you... Curt From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 2 21:41:38 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Scrapyard finds In-Reply-To: <3B41070B.39D47417@tiac.net> References: <994051756.3b4006aca33f2@email.ou.edu> <3B41070B.39D47417@tiac.net> Message-ID: <994128098.3b4130e2ed6ef@email.ou.edu> Quoting Bob Shannon : > Ohhh, and RCA 703 eh? Raytheon == RCA? > What kind of shape is it in? It looked clean. That and number of address and data lights were the only things I got to before I was attacked by more hornets. I'm going back in a few days with a little cash, bug spray, tools, and a camera. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net Mon Jul 2 22:43:24 2001 From: mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... Message-ID: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> I'm getting close to my wits end ... I embarked on a project to catalog and archive all of the 5.25 inch floppies that I used on my PCjr. For archiving floppies I decided to use savedskf and loaddskf (IBM utils), which run under DOS and OS/2. I used a Pentium class machine with a true 360KB diskette drive in the machine. I specified to savedskf that I wanted raw, uncompressed binary images of the diskettes. (The raw binary images are exactly size of the diskettes (360KB), and are exactly the same as images created using Linux's 'dd' command, so I know that they are really raw binary images.) All of the diskettes (150+) read fine, and are now sitting as files on my hard drive. I decided to do some spot checking of the diskette images, so I created new diskettes from the images. First problem: loaddskf will NOT write my 360KB images to a real 360KB diskette drive. It complains about an unsupported drive type. If I let savedskf write it's meta data and do compression, then loaddskf will work. However, I want raw binary images for compatibility with Linux 'dd. I can get around it; there are lots of programs that can write the raw diskette images. (fdwrite, fdimage, rawrite) However, I am completely annoyed. Second problem: I have two PCjrs for testing, and neither of the two can read the diskettes created on my big machine. The diskettes are being created using a real 360KB diskette drive, yet they are barely readable in the two PCjrs. (They are usually completely unreadable.) I'm going to swap the 360KB diskette drive out of the Pentium class machine and put another one there. Hopefully that drive is out of alignment or the belts are loose, and that is why the other two PCjrs can't read diskettes created on it. Question 1: What the heck is up with loaddskf? Has anybody run into problems with it when dealing with raw binary images? It's supposed to work ... :-) Question 2: Is there diagnostic software for determing the alignment and RPMs of a diskette drive? I vagely remember CopyIIPC telling me the rotational speed of the diskette drive as it copied ... is there a diagnostic program that can do this? Question 3: What can I do to improve the chances of these diskettes being interchangeable between systems? I've cleaned the drive heads with a Q-Tip and isopropyl alcohol. I've also cleaned the drive rails to ensure that the head can move smoothly. Neither have helped. Thanks, Mike From allain at panix.com Mon Jul 2 23:25:33 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> Message-ID: <006401c10378$33b763a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> You suggest a lot of responses here, so I'm a little shy to respond with only this. BTW nice history lesson. > - could a Frieden do a division? Yes, on order of seconds. 2 secs for an extremely simple problem and 10 secs for a very complex one. Required use of a special third register. The algorithm was a simple one. More to the largest digit and subtract down the number until zero was reached. Every time zero is crossed, one time the divisor was added back and the next lower position of digit was then used. This process was painfully obvious just from the noise it made. P.S. Was this one of the nonbinary "biquinary" machines? I guess one of the determining factors between computer and calculator. John A. From jrussell at apmsafe.com Tue Jul 3 00:32:50 2001 From: jrussell at apmsafe.com (John Russell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: VAXen Message-ID: Hello! My coworker and I are looking for an archival server that we can collect the files we use on and we want something with character, much like a VAX. I have seen your page and was wondering if you knew of anyone selling a VAX with SCSI capability. BTW, can we put a 36 gig drive into it? Nick From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 00:43:03 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: DecStation 78 References: <725.583T900T1504881optimus@canit.se> <000901c10297$43dc1aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <000901c10364$a3390300$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Message-ID: <006801c10383$079fd940$e6b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> What is the difference between a: 1. DECstation 78 2. DEC WT-78 ("WT" apparently standing for "Word Terminal") 3. DEC VT-78 ("VT" apparently standing for "Video Terminal") -W From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 01:08:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <1964.584T1800T1265617optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > >...that clip-on piece converts them to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ) > > RS-432 really won't do me any good. Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it isn't incompatible with RS-232. > So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? I'm pretty sure the console is on the DB-9 (uVAX-II pinout, *not* PC-AT). It is RS-232. The DB-25 is a standard serial connection, but it is not the console (i.e., not OPA0: within VMS, but I forget if it's TTA0: or TTA1: or even TXAn:... it's been too long). > >True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply > >for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick. > > "Those"? Sorry... the cases that are of the style of the uVAX-2000 - I'm blanking on the proper DEC designation, or I would have mentioned it. > >It's a bunch of work... I certainly wouldn't do it if I had another VAX > that worked. > > Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose > state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble > with the DEQNA in our GPX). I have a DEQNA... haven't gotten my BA123 put back together since I got it. > And running such a machine without ethernet is no fun, I'm so spoiled > nowadays. =) True. What _I'm_ after is a VAX with ethernet, 9-track and a big disk. So far, I have the 8300 (no tape, no ethernet, but an RA-81 and a 3rd-party SDI-ESDI box w/2.4 Gb), the uVAX-II (DEQNA, and KDA-50, both uninstalled, but with a Dilog TU-80-compatible controller), and MicroVAX 2000s (with RD_series disks and ethernet). Kinda like the time-money-quality equation, I can manage two of my three goals in the same machine. Somewhat recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find out where to hang the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot). Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several gig of disk. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1176.monmouth.com Tue Jul 3 07:03:40 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1176.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> from Michael Brutman at "Jul 2, 2001 10:43:24 pm" Message-ID: <200107031203.f63C3ef08239@bg-tc-ppp1176.monmouth.com> > Question 1: What the heck is up with loaddskf? Has anybody > run into problems with it when dealing with raw binary images? > It's supposed to work ... :-) I've never used it with anything other than 3 1/2 inch drives. Perhaps it has a table of drive types it supports...and only works with them. The only way to tell is to disassemble it and see. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 3 19:56:52 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) References: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c10424$37623000$0f8953d1@jay> ----- Original Message ----- > > RS-432 really won't do me any good. > > Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it > isn't incompatible with RS-232. > > > So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? I'm going from foggy memory here - but isn't the only difference between RS232 and RS423 the voltage levels? I think RS232 is something like 0-12 volts and RS423 is 0-5 volts or something like that. As a result, it becomes a question of tolerances in the circuit. If I recall, on the General Automation Zebra Pick machines, they had RS423 ports, and we hooked up RS232 devices to them all the time. Almost never did we find an RS232 device that wouldn't work on the RS423 ports. Vague memory here. Jay West From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 3 08:38:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) References: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <002101c10424$37623000$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <001b01c103c5$684864a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Here's a quickie from Optimized Engineering : " Whereas the RS-232 standard defines a bi-directional interface between exactly two communicators, the RS-423 standard defines a uni-directional interface between one transmitter and many receivers. For example, a single computer may need to update a number of terminals that are displaying, for example, a customers order information at multiple locations throughout a warehouse. The data direction is always in one direction. RS-423 allows for distances up to 4000 feet but limits data rates to only 100 kb/sec for a maximum of ten receivers. The voltage levels are +3.6 to +6 volts to represent a binary 0 and -3.6 to -6 volts to represent a binary 1. The voltage levels are defined relative to an earth ground potential assumed to be zero volts. Consequently a difference in ground voltage levels will result in the Common Mode Voltage problem that will confuse the data values. " If you start with that, you can probably get where you need to go. This refers to some logical differences. Voltage standards overlap somewhat. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: Re: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > RS-432 really won't do me any good. > > > > Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it > > isn't incompatible with RS-232. > > > > > So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? > > I'm going from foggy memory here - but isn't the only difference between > RS232 and RS423 the voltage levels? I think RS232 is something like 0-12 > volts and RS423 is 0-5 volts or something like that. As a result, it becomes > a question of tolerances in the circuit. If I recall, on the General > Automation Zebra Pick machines, they had RS423 ports, and we hooked up RS232 > devices to them all the time. Almost never did we find an RS232 device that > wouldn't work on the RS423 ports. Vague memory here. > > Jay West > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jul 3 08:39:10 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> <006401c10378$33b763a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> >John Allain wrote: > You suggest a lot of responses here, so I'm a little shy > to respond with only this. BTW nice history lesson. Jerome Fine replies: Well, at least one person took the trouble to respond. Thank you. I don't mind taking 30 minutes (I type slowly) to provide some historical perspective if someone is actually listening. > > - could a Frieden do a division? > Yes, on order of seconds. 2 secs for an extremely simple problem > and 10 secs for a very complex one. Required use of a special third > register. The algorithm was a simple one. More to the largest digit > and subtract down the number until zero was reached. Every time > zero is crossed, one time the divisor was added back and the next > lower position of digit was then used. This process was painfully > obvious just from the noise it made. It certainly seemed MUCH longer. But I don't ever remember using one myself to solve any actual problems. I suspect that by the time a Frieden was possible (I do seem to remember they were larger than a PC desktop box is today, probably larger than an old XT desktop box - although probably smaller than a BA23 in its shell), shortly after that, handheld calculators became possible. > Was this one of the nonbinary "biquinary" machines? > I guess one of the determining factors between computer > and calculator. You have the correct idea, but I think it was called "duo-quinary" or 2 * "five states" for each character of the ten characters or decimal digits in each word. But I can't remember how "five states" were achieved. But that does mean that simple binary could be replaced if a simple way of using such an ability were ever considered. I suspect that with current concepts of RAM and having only an OFF or ON state (simple binary), we have mostly forgotten that other levels of representation were even possible, let alone used. Of course, a punched card was the perfect example - 12 holes per each of 80 columns with the lower 10 being the decimal portion and the upper three zone holes able to extend the range into alphabetic characters when two holes were punched on the card. The big problem with such equipment was the lack of parity checking, although relatively few errors ever occurred percentage wise - although the absolute number was obviously very large. The IBM keypunch almost always produced a clean hold with no chad at all when it was adjusted correctly. And with a correctly adjusted 029, it was even possible to "add" or "remove" a column from the current card by holding the correct drum - if someone did not touch type so that the rest of the incorrect card could be repeated - although I usually did a repeat of the new card just in case the holes had not been punched in their exact locations after the "unusual" operation had been done - the 029 was not as particular whereas a card reader would require almost perfect registration of the holes. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 3 08:41:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Questions about VMSTPC Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715129A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Hello everyone, An acquaintance of mine is having trouble either compiling and/or using the VMSTPC package under Alpha OpenVMS 7.1. Is anyone running VMSTPC under OpenVMA 7.1 on an Alpha? If so, would you be willing to talk to him? He's trying to read magtapes that are over 10 years old, so it's as on-topic as you can get... Thanks in advance, -doug quebbeman From lance at costanzo.net Tue Jul 3 09:20:12 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: The Seven Dwarfs Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010703072012.0224488c@costanzo.net> At 12:41 AM 7/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >Anybody remember John Dvorak's "IBM and the Seven Dwarfs" columns >in Computer Shopper a few years ago? He gave a short history of a >dwarf each month. I should have saved them... //quote IBM and the seven dwarfs was a phrase from the mid-'60s, when IBM ruled the market. By 1965 IBM had a 65.3 percent market share; the seven dwarfs shared the rest. This month's tale concerns Burroughs Corp., one of the dwarfs; the others were Sperry Rand (formerly Remington Rand), Control Data, Honeywell, General Electric, RCA, and NCR. // burroughs http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9710/cshp0040.html sperry rand http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9711/cshp0115.html ge http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9712/cshp0087.html honeywell http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9801/cshp0098.html control data http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9802/268189.html ncr http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9804/288538.html rca http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/stories/reviews/0,7171,278591,00.html feedback http://www.zdnet.com/computershopper/edit/cshopper/content/9811/352639.html From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Tue Jul 3 10:44:28 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? Message-ID: Chad, I've already gotten one offer for an EISA SCSI controller, but... if you'd still be willing to part with one of those Adaptecs, I do have another machine I could put a SCSI controller. (I really didn't think that so many people would be willing to part with a controller that I've had so much trouble finding. I must be looking in the wrong areas.) I can send you a money order for S/H + whatever you wanted for the controller. Micah Snodgrass 2054 Sisley Grove Rd. Palo, Ia. 52324 Chad Fernandez @classiccmp.org on 06/29/2001 12:24:42 PM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org, mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com cc: Subject: Re: Whats a reasonable collection? What is the brand is it? Is it Wide or narrow? What do you need in the way of an EISA SCSI board? I have a couple 174x series from Adaptec that aren't doing anything. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > I've got a MCA SCSI controller that I'm not using. It came to me in a box > of MCA and EISA stuff and was working when it was pulled from it's machine. > I was hoping to get an EISA SCSI controller.. Hmmm... if anyone in > interested in a swap.... > > - Micah S. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 10:54:18 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> Message-ID: <20010703155418.12337.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jerome Fine wrote: > the 029 was not as particular whereas a card reader would require almost > perfect registration of the holes. Is this a difference between optical and mechanical readers, or simply a tolerance issue? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 3 11:17:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Whats a reasonable collection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010703161712.28992.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > Chad, > > I've already gotten one offer for an EISA SCSI controller, but... if > you'd still be willing to part with one of those Adaptecs, I do have > another machine I could put a SCSI controller. (I really didn't think that > so many people would be willing to part with a controller that I've had so > much trouble finding. I must be looking in the wrong areas.) I, too, have at least one EISA SCSI controller that does me no good (I happen to have an EISA motherboard or two, but want nothing to do with the configuration hassle). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 3 11:32:54 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Friden (was: IBM 604 References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> <006401c10378$33b763a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> Message-ID: <00f101c103dd$f3b0f1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I actually dusted the thing off and tried it out for probably the first time in 5 years. After figuring out how to get going (there are still 5+ knobs that I still don't know the function of) and cranking out some more ozone, here's the resullts. Oh, its about 11" cubed and 40~50 lbs dense. Needs more space for its carriage to move around. > It certainly seemed MUCH longer. One place division seems to take about 0.8 seconds and there are ten places, so it may be possible that No division will take more than 8~9 seconds, with a properly tuned machine. If you want, you can set the division place "pointer" just one digit to the left irregardless of the numbers involved and it will "count up". THIS takes much longer (EG 1 minute for a result of 400) since it has to count all the way up the hill instead of counting up each "step" and then stepping to the next digit. (example 345 is 29X that of 3+4+5 in terms of time involved). I could guess that if someone didn't want to beat his machine up quite so much he might use the slow method. Mine in its semi-maintained state will only give 100% correct answers with the slow method. Ouch. > But I can't remember how "five states" were achieved. My hunch is that duoquinary or whatever was set up to make computer math more palateable for non mathematicians (first C.S. degree = 1966? @UNC) and therefore more customers. I would be not at all surprised if the implementation was just 6 bits per digit (1,2,3,4,5,shift), it is only 80% added waste over pure binary and required less effort for people to work with. IBM was probably worried that its users were base 10 bigots and base 8 wouldn't be as popular. Hunch. I had some conversations with a 6xx user at G.E.20 years ago in case anyone wonders why the interest. John A. From owad at applefritter.com Tue Jul 3 11:36:12 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Free: Quarter Inch Cartridge/Tape DC6150 Message-ID: <20010703163612.1843@mail.earthlink.net> Citadel Quarter Inch Cartridge, DC6150, 620ft, 150MB. In plastic case and looks practically new. I don't know what it's for and I don't want it. Cost of shipping. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jul 3 11:43:18 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: commodore 2500 in Kansas City Message-ID: Looks just like the one on this webpage except the one I saw has "Commodore 2500" on the lower left corner of the face. http://amiga.emugaming.com/a2500.html Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 3 11:46:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Michael Brutman wrote: > First problem: loaddskf will NOT write my 360KB images to > a real 360KB diskette drive. It complains about an unsupported > drive type. Are the diskettes already formatted? On THAT drive? With which version of the OS? (loaddskf might be unable to recognize the drive or diskette format from other versions) > Second problem: I have two PCjrs for testing, and neither of > the two can read the diskettes created on my big machine. The > diskettes are being created using a real 360KB diskette drive, > yet they are barely readable in the two PCjrs. (They are > usually completely unreadable.) WHAT MESSAGE DO YOU GET?? Before you take hardware that may or may not be working, and change it over to other hardware that may or may not work, it's worth at least paying attention to the existing clues. Some other tests to try before changing the hardware: 1) find a disk that does read properly on the Jr. Bring it over to the AT, and do a DISKCOPY from that diskette to a VIRGIN DD (NOT HD!!!) diskette. Will the resulting diskette read on the Jr? 2) take a diskette that is readable on the Jr. Bring it over to the AT, and ERASE one file. Is the DIRectory still readable on the JR? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 3 12:08:48 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Free: Quarter Inch Cartridge/Tape DC6150 Message-ID: <34.17594369.28735620@aol.com> In a message dated 7/3/2001 11:44:41 AM Central Daylight Time, owad@applefritter.com writes: << Citadel Quarter Inch Cartridge, DC6150, 620ft, 150MB. In plastic case and looks practically new. I don't know what it's for and I don't want it. Cost of shipping. >> I don't need it, but it works in the IBM 6157 tape drive. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jul 3 12:35:00 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: Joe writes > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the >52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) > > Joe I thought Canada was a province or is it a colony? :) What does it take to upgrade from a province or a colony to be a US state? I think they meet the basic requirements 1. Beer 2. Speak English (sort of) 3. Dollars Now that I think about it, Utah may fail on the Beer part. Kick out Utah, replace with Canada. (Remember it's attempted humor) Mike From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jul 3 12:58:01 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 References: <20010703155418.12337.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B4207A8.5721AAEC@idirect.com> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Jerome Fine wrote: > > the 029 was not as particular whereas a card reader would require almost > > perfect registration of the holes. > Is this a difference between optical and mechanical readers, or simply > a tolerance issue? Jerome Fine replies: If a mechanical reader example is one that has a plate with 960 copper plated raised areas over which the card was placed, then I would also need to know how the optical mechanism functions. From what I remembered of the high speed card readers, they usually fed the card into a slot around a curved read area where I presume the light shone through. I would think that for the light reader mechanism, timing would be critical. As to the actual details, I have absolutely no idea - I just punched the cards and relied on the equipment to do the rest. Tolerance issue? Sorry, I have no idea as to the requirements, but I often found that the first attempt to add a character with an 029 resulted in a misplaced punch for just the added character - so a duplicate and a second attempt was required with the added character then having the correct column available (all the rest of the columns having been shifted by one) and thus on the second attempt it all worked correctly. What was lots of fun was duplicating a deck of cards on an 029 keypunch. A hand "shuffle" of blank cards between every original card and then setting up the "drum" so that I could alternately duplicate or release every other card while at the same time (again by hand) the output was fed into two piles. I seem to remember it took about two hours to duplicate a box of 2000 cards - 7200 seconds / 4000 cards - or about two seconds per card. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 3 13:14:58 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "Re: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)" (Jul 3, 19:56) References: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <002101c10424$37623000$0f8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <10107031914.ZM16021@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 3, 19:56, Jay West wrote: > > Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it > > isn't incompatible with RS-232. RS423 (actually, EIA423) was designed as a compatible replacement for RS232. > > > So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? > > I'm going from foggy memory here - but isn't the only difference between > RS232 and RS423 the voltage levels? I think RS232 is something like 0-12 > volts and RS423 is 0-5 volts or something like that. As a result, it becomes > a question of tolerances in the circuit. If I recall, on the General > Automation Zebra Pick machines, they had RS423 ports, and we hooked up RS232 > devices to them all the time. Almost never did we find an RS232 device that > wouldn't work on the RS423 ports. Vague memory here. Almost any RS232 device should interoperate with almost any RS423 device. RS423 uses +/3.6V - +/-6V (IIRC) and usually operates at around +/-5V, instead of RS232's +/-5V to +/-15V, commonly operated at +/-12V. Also RS423 controls the slew rate in order to get faster signals further. It's also specified to be capable of driving several receivers (RS422 is a similar system but with differential drivers/receivers to go even faster/further). Unlike RS232, it's purely an electrical standard, intended to be used in conjunction with other standards (to get bidirectional interfaces, pinout definitions, etc). Oh, and in theory, it uses balanced receivers, such that the ground reference for the receiver is the same ground reference used for the driver; in other words the reciever signal ground pin is grounded at the transmitting end of the cable only. I've never had a problem mixing RS232 and RS423. The only possible problem I can think of is that some RS423 receiver chips are only rated for 10V inputs, but I've never damaged anything. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jul 3 13:27:20 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010703132651.00b20c70@127.0.0.1> Canada needs to dump the Metric system as well..... : ) - Matt >I thought Canada was a province or is it a colony? :) What does it take to >upgrade from a province or a colony to be a US state? >I think they meet the basic requirements >1. Beer >2. Speak English (sort of) >3. Dollars > >Now that I think about it, Utah may fail on the Beer part. Kick out Utah, >replace with Canada. > >(Remember it's attempted humor) >Mike "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 3 13:20:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jul 2, 1 10:43:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3309 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010703/c2acc7e5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 3 13:04:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <1964.584T1800T1265617optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 3, 1 02:06:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010703/41e47fb3/attachment.ksh From ljmahar at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 3 14:01:26 2001 From: ljmahar at cfl.rr.com (Linda Mahar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Free Epson JX-80 Color Printer Message-ID: <000a01c103f2$8fe80100$5eaf2141@cfl.rr.com> Free Epson JX-80 Color Printer for the cost of shipping from Satellite Beach, FL. You may contact me at ljmahar@cfl.rr.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010703/f6ccfd23/attachment.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 14:19:29 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I am sure RS432 is a typo for RS423. My experiece with the common >implementations of RS423 on DEC machines (and with the so-called RS422 on >the Mac, which is nothing of the sort...) is that it's possible to wire >up a cable that will connect it to a standard RS232 port. It may not >officially meet the stnadard, but it sure works for reasonable-length >cables. So the fact that you get DEC RS423 ports is a non-problem. On the Mac it's also easy enough to wire up adapters to go from the Mac serial ports to RS232. I've run PC modems off of Mac's like that, as well as hooked my Tandy Model 102 to my Mac to exchange data. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 3 14:51:24 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: <3B4207A8.5721AAEC@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > If a mechanical reader example is one that has a plate with 960 copper plated > raised areas over which the card was placed, then I would also need to know > how the optical mechanism functions. From what I remembered of the high > speed card readers, they usually fed the card into a slot around a curved > read area where I presume the light shone through. I would think that for the > light reader mechanism, timing would be critical. What I learned in school 35 years ago: Long ago, IBM patented the shape of the hole, and a few companies attempted to build machines with round holes! But THAT is not the issue. That patent was overturned. Then, in their ongoing efforts to mistreat the competition, IBM patented their brass roller. The IBM card reading system consisted of a brass roller and a group of metal brushes. Which brush made contact was one axis, and the rotational position of the roller was the other axis. IBM's actions backfired. They ALMOST worked - several competitors almost went under when they could no longer use a brass roller. Bizarre, stupid things were tried, such as 960 plungers in a grid. Then one company (CDC?) succeeded in what had previously been too great an engineering challenge, and came out with an optical reader (12 photocells and a roller). In addition to getting around the IBM patent, they also ended up with a card reader that could be made to run much faster than the fastest that IBM had to offer; thus bringing them back from the brink and into the lead. > Tolerance issue? Sorry, I have no idea as to the requirements, but I often > found that the first attempt to add a character with an 029 resulted in a misplaced > punch for just the added character - so a duplicate and a second attempt FIX THAT PUNCH! I have never had that problem with a properly aligned 029. But they DO need to be aligned and adjusted occasionally. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tim.mann at compaq.com Tue Jul 3 14:56:59 2001 From: tim.mann at compaq.com (tim.mann@compaq.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools, version 2.1 Message-ID: <200107031956.f63JuxY106352@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Version 2.1 of my Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools (cw2dmk and dmk2cw) is now available at http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80resources.html. This release adds some heuristics to cw2dmk to produce cleaner output files and to autodetect RX02 encoding. Standard blurb on the tools: The Catweasel Floppy Read/Write Tools are software for the Catweasel ISA universal floppy disk controller. cw2dmk will read several kinds of floppy disk, some of which ordinary PC controllers have trouble with, and save them in the DMK disk image format. (DMK is a format used by the Unix TRS-80 emulator xtrs and by David Keil's TRS-80 emulator for MS-DOS.) cw2dmk does not just read TRS-80 disks; it can handle (at least) any disk written using a Western Digital 177x/179x floppy disk controller, a PC-style NEC765-compatible controller, or a Digital Equipment Corporation RX02 controller. dmk2cw will write any DMK image back to a real floppy disk, and handles the same kinds of disks as cw2dmk. The tools run on both Linux and MS-DOS. Source code is included under the GPL. Tim Mann tim.mann@compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA From optimus at canit.se Tue Jul 3 11:18:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <20010703060806.66460.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2623.584T2850T10386231optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> >...that clip-on piece converts them to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ) >> >> RS-432 really won't do me any good. >Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it >isn't incompatible with RS-232. Nope. I believe that's a differential interface, isn't it? >> So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? >I'm pretty sure the console is on the DB-9 (uVAX-II pinout, *not* PC-AT). It >is RS-232. The DB-25 is a standard serial connection, but it is not the >console (i.e., not OPA0: within VMS, but I forget if it's TTA0: or TTA1: or >even TXAn:... it's been too long). OTOH ISTR reading that it's possible to construct an adaptor plug which links two pins on the DB25 so as to enable it as the console. >> >True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply >> >for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick. >> >> "Those"? >Sorry... the cases that are of the style of the uVAX-2000 - I'm blanking >on the proper DEC designation, or I would have mentioned it. All right, those. They're pretty, but haven't showed up on the fleamarket. =) >> >It's a bunch of work... I certainly wouldn't do it if I had another VAX >> that worked. >> >> Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose >> state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble >> with the DEQNA in our GPX). >I have a DEQNA... haven't gotten my BA123 put back together since I got it. I wonder if our DEQNA troubles are due to that. There are no walls on our VAX, which I suppose could overheat the card(s). >> And running such a machine without ethernet is no fun, I'm so spoiled >> nowadays. =) >True. What _I'm_ after is a VAX with ethernet, 9-track and a big disk. So >far, I have the 8300 (no tape, no ethernet, but an RA-81 and a 3rd-party >SDI-ESDI box w/2.4 Gb), the uVAX-II (DEQNA, and KDA-50, both uninstalled, >but with a Dilog TU-80-compatible controller), and MicroVAX 2000s (with >RD_series disks and ethernet). Kinda like the time-money-quality equation, >I can manage two of my three goals in the same machine. We've got the equation graphics, speed, networking. There's graphics on the GPX and speed and networking on the 3100, but then we've got to use terminals. >Somewhat recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find out where to hang >the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot). >Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several >gig of disk. DEBNT? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 3 18:02:43 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 3 18:40:38 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket) In-Reply-To: <2623.584T2850T10386231optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 03, 2001 05:18:57 PM Message-ID: <200107032340.f63NedA10779@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Somewhat recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find out where to hang > >the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot). > >Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several > >gig of disk. > > DEBNT? VAXBI bus Ethernet and TK50 controller. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 3 20:31:50 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: mVax Pertec FS? References: <20010702140935.Q5353@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3B41188D.E5FC1932@idirect.com> <006401c10378$33b763a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> <00f101c103dd$f3b0f1c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <004701c10429$19df0120$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Here's something I didn't think to try until now. Anybody on list have a QBus Pertec interface they want to move? I have a 9 track that is only useable from an odd machine and would like to move up to microVax for this. John A. From rickb at bensene.com Tue Jul 3 20:38:09 2001 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 and calculator history In-Reply-To: <3B41CAFD.623B683C@idirect.com> Message-ID: Jerome Fine wrote, regarding the Friden mechanical calculators: > > It certainly seemed MUCH longer. But I don't ever remember using > one myself to solve any actual problems. I suspect that by the time > a Frieden was possible (I do seem to remember they were larger > than a PC desktop box is today, probably larger than an old XT desktop > box - although probably smaller than a BA23 in its shell), shortly after > that, handheld calculators became possible. A little historical elaboration. First, Friden (it doesn't have an extra 'e' in it) began making mechanical calculators as early as 1934, when the company was founded by Carl Friden. These machines required human intervention to divide. Later, in the 1940's, Friden came out with machines that were electro-mechanical and capable of automatic division. These machines proved very popular. One of the most common fully-automatic four function electromechanical calculators made by Friden was the Friden STW (see http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/fridenstw.html). These machines were made between 1949 and 1966. The peak of electro-mechanical technology was the Friden SRW and SRQ machines. The SRW could perform the standard four math functions, along with automatic square root. The SRQ could perform the same operations as the SRW, along with automatic, single-entry squaring. These machines were marketed in the 50's and 60's. The first electronic *desktop* calculator, using miniature Thyratron tubes (see http://www.geocities.com/anitaC-VIII.html), the Sumlock Comptometer Anita Mk 8, was introduced in 1961. In '63, Friden introduced the first all-transistor electronic *desktop* calculator, the Friden 130 (see http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/friden130.html). These machines were nearly the same size and weight as their electro-mechanical predecessors, *but*, they were quiet, and much faster. (Imagine the noise created in a large room full of electro-mechanical Friden calculators all running at once! -- such instances were quite common in insurance [calculating actuarial tables] and government/military [projectile trajectory work] during the 1940's). By 1966 to 1968, the trend was very clear...electronic desktop calculators were taking over. But, the machines were still rather large, heavy, and expensive [examples: Sharp Compet 20 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/comp20.html) and Wang LOCI-2 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/wangloci)]. Makers of the mechanical works of art such as Monroe, Marchant, and others (Olivetti, Olympia, etc.) had to deeply discount their mechanical machines because the electronic machines, while still more expensive, simply had advantages that made up for their higher price. These mechanical calculaor makers also had to scramble to attain expertise in design and manufacture of electronic machines, by either home-growing it (as with Friden, Olympia, Olivetti), starting out in electronic calculating from the get-go (Wang, Hewlett Packard), or finding someone else (generally in Japan) to help them (Monroe with Canon, Singer with Hitachi, and Burroughs with Sharp). As the '60s wound down, desktop electronic calculators shrunk in size and price, using small and medium-scale integrated circuits [examples being the Brother Calther 412 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/calther412), and Sharp Compet 16 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/comp16.html)]. By 1968, electronic circuitry had come to the point where sophisticated scientific desktop electronic calculators were possible, with machines like the Hewlett Packard 9100B (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/hp9100b.html) and Wang 300-series (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/wang360.html). Desktop calculators continued to advance, with HP's later 9800-series machines (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/hp9810a.html) and Wang's 700-series machines (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/wang720.html) blurring the line between the then-popular mini-computers such as the Digital Equipment PDP-8, and the Hewlett Packard 2100) and calculator. In the late 1960's, the advent of Large Scale Integration came into play, and the first 'portable' electronic calculators (though a far cry from 'pocket' calculators) were becoming available...machines such as the Sharp ELSI-8 (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/sharpel-8.html), the Canon Pocketronic (http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/pocketronic.html), and others. The first truly 'pocket' calculator came to market in late 1971, made by Bowmar (using a single-chip calculator LSI made by Texas Instruments). So, as you can see, there was quite a lapse of time from when Friden introduced it's first mechanical calculators in 1934, and the time of the first 'pocket' calculator. Even if you consider the 'fully automatic' four function electro-mechanical Friden calculators (which came about in the early 1940's), to the time of the Bowmar pocket calculator, there were still over 30 years of time that progressed between these developments. As we all know, with technology advancing so quickly (even back then), 30 years seems an eternity. You can see more information about a lot of different calculators at my museum at http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators Sure wish I could find one of those old IBM 604's, or a Casio 14-A relay calculator, as these machines were truly the 'mainframe' predecessor to the early desktop electronic calculators. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 3 21:02:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the > >52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) > > I thought Canada was a province or is it a colony? :) What does it take to > upgrade from a province or a colony to be a US state? > I think they meet the basic requirements > 1. Beer > 2. Speak English (sort of) > 3. Dollars > > Now that I think about it, Utah may fail on the Beer part. Kick out Utah, > replace with Canada. Oddly enough: Article XI of the United States Constitution: "Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of the United States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this Union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine States." http://www.usconstitution.net/articles.html#Article11 So I think Canada has precedence over silly little Puerto Rico. It's amazing what you can find out when you take the time to read stuff. Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have ended up with today :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 3 21:09:27 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is > called dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make > beer... More importantly, they practically invented the concept of "Medicinal Marijuana". We should replace Utah with Jamaica. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 3 21:29:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: IBM 604 and calculator history In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Rick Bensene wrote: > You can see more information about a lot of different calculators at > my museum at http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators I just wanted to say it is always inspiring to hear from someone who is truly a master of their preferred topic :) Rick's website is probaly the best on old calculators out there. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jul 3 22:37:35 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Scrapyard finds References: <994051756.3b4006aca33f2@email.ou.edu> <3B41070B.39D47417@tiac.net> <994128098.3b4130e2ed6ef@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B428F7F.13269B4D@tiac.net> Correction, I was thinking Raytheon. I have no idea why I wrote RCA. "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > Quoting Bob Shannon : > > Ohhh, and RCA 703 eh? > > Raytheon == RCA? > > > What kind of shape is it in? > > It looked clean. That and number of address and data lights were > the only things I got to before I was attacked by more hornets. > I'm going back in a few days with a little cash, bug spray, tools, > and a camera. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu What little I know about the Raytheon 704 was back when I was in high school I was loaded a Raytheon 704 manual for a few days. The 704 just has a sort of look to it. I imagine a 703 is similar. If your not interested in the machine yourself, where is it located, and what might it cost to acquire? From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Jul 3 22:53:19 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: Message-ID: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> Ok, maybe I can drag something to the show... A few questions... If I want to exhibit a pre-1970 mini, what exactly do I need to do? Most of the info I found on the web site appeared to describe vendor tables. Are exhibit tables the same price, etc? Is it too late to exhibit something? I can can fit a working HP2114A in my Miata if I had to... From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jul 3 23:14:32 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:17 2005 Subject: More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) Message-ID: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> Hello, I've got some time off from work, so I am trying to clean up and sort through stuff. I know I already owe a few of you some boards.... I'll be getting to them shortly. Please respond directly to me at fernande@internet1.net ....this is going to two groups! Here's the new list: -2400bps external Supra Modem -Microchannel IDE adapter (Arco Electronics) -STB video card, Tseng based, ISA MVP2X, dual head -SMC Arcnet card, Microchannel -Winchester drive controller.. RLL I think, 16-bit ISA -MiniScribe RLL hard disks, Model 8425 ...2 of them -Applesoft ][ Basic Programming Reference manual -10 3M 8" floppy disks, I don't know if they are soft of hard sectored, they are marked SS, SD, R ...they are in a plstic case and are new. I bought them several years ago, as a novelty from a store going out of business. -uSpeed Fast 88, "Made in the USA and we are proud of it", I don't even know what it is... it is on a piece of angled aluminum with a small PCB, and has 4 chips along with some resistors and 4 clock crystal looking dealies. Is connects to an XT usinf a 20 connductor ribbon cable that goes to a dip socket on the MB.... wierd huh? If you what it is.... PLEASE tell me :-) -Adaptec 2742W EISA Wide SCSI card WITHOUT the slot cover.... I don't know why someone would remove it, but they did :-( I bought a generic one, but it isn't in the right postion :-( -2 Microchannel game port cards by Suncom, I bought them on Ebay, but they don't seem to work with my Reply planer. They are odd, in that the machine doen't ask for an ADF, and there is none provided. -IBM Model 9577, Bermuda Planer, nice condition, both 3.5" and 5.25" floppies, memory is probably around 24megs, has a 4xxmeg HD, has an XGA2 card -the dumb TI PC (Texas Instruments Professional Computer) that I keep on trying to give away, no keyboard or OS, and they are custom. Well, thats all for now :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 3 23:40:27 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: DEC PDPs and Music/Sound Synthesis and DEC Humor Files Message-ID: Greetings, Last night I discovered that my DEC PDPs and Music/Sound Synthesis Summary was inaccessable. If anyone's interested, this, and quite a few DEC-related humor files, can be found on my web site from: www.rddavis.org/rdd/PDP.html -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jul 3 23:31:51 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> Message-ID: <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > Ok, maybe I can drag something to the show... > > A few questions... > > If I want to exhibit a pre-1970 mini, what exactly do I need to do? Most of the > info I found on the web site appeared to describe vendor tables. > > Are exhibit tables the same price, etc? They're the same price, except Sellam pays you. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jul 4 00:13:20 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Even More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) References: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B42A5F0.E1AD117@internet1.net> Hey I found more stuff, plus I should have stated that it is up the the receiver to pay for shipping :-) -Memorex-Telex case from 85ps server, has MB, but needs processor card to make it a computer. I think it might be some sort of Intel designed server case, I think I have seen similar/same case used with some Zenith Z-servers. It looks sort of like a AT/ATX hybrid, to me. I have all the manuals/software/cables, etc for this... it is new, just been sitting. -2 Adaptec EISA 1740 narrow scsi cards -Seagate ST3541A "Cabo" (40meg IDE drive) -almost new IDE/serial/parallel card, 16-bit ISA (in the original box, RARE, L@@K :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jul 4 01:07:19 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by about ten years. Jim Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Oddly enough: > > Article XI of the United States Constitution: > > "Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of > the United States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the > advantages of this Union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the > same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine States." > > http://www.usconstitution.net/articles.html#Article11 > > So I think Canada has precedence over silly little Puerto Rico. > > It's amazing what you can find out when you take the time to read stuff. > Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very > disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have > ended up with today :( > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jul 4 01:51:20 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <200107031203.f63C3ef08239@bg-tc-ppp1176.monmouth.com> References: <3B413F5C.8EDA3CF9@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010703235040.03308b30@mail.zipcon.net> the only time i've used loaddskf is to generate PS/2 reference disks downloaded from ibm on a 3 1/2 inch drive. At 08:03 AM 7/3/01 -0400, you wrote: > > Question 1: What the heck is up with loaddskf? Has anybody > > run into problems with it when dealing with raw binary images? > > It's supposed to work ... :-) > > >I've never used it with anything other than 3 1/2 inch drives. >Perhaps it has a table of drive types it supports...and only >works with them. > >The only way to tell is to disassemble it and see. > >Bill >--- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jul 4 02:07:35 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) In-Reply-To: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010704000619.009d1460@mail.zipcon.net> >-uSpeed Fast 88, "Made in the USA and we are proud of it", I don't even >know what it is... it is on a piece of angled aluminum with a small PCB, >and has 4 chips along with some resistors and 4 clock crystal looking >dealies. Is connects to an XT usinf a 20 connductor ribbon cable that >goes to a dip socket on the MB.... wierd huh? If you what it is.... >PLEASE tell me :-) it's an accellerator for 8088's IIRC. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 02:26:18 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > Ok, maybe I can drag something to the show... > > > > A few questions... > > > > If I want to exhibit a pre-1970 mini, what exactly do I > need to do? Most of the > > info I found on the web site appeared to describe vendor > tables. > > > > Are exhibit tables the same price, etc? > > They're the same price, except Sellam pays you. > Seriously, they're free although I think you have to buy an admission to the show (but it's worth it). From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 4 02:54:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of > Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by > about ten years. Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. The students open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I apparently didn't learn much. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jul 4 02:57:45 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > Ok, maybe I can drag something to the show... Great! > A few questions... > > If I want to exhibit a pre-1970 mini, what exactly do I need to do? > Most of the info I found on the web site appeared to describe vendor > tables. You're looking so hard that you missed the link on the VCF East page that says "Exhibit": http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/exhibit.php3 > Are exhibit tables the same price, etc? You only need to pay for a regular admission to the event. > Is it too late to exhibit something? Not at all! But I must receive exhibit registrations by July 15th (I'll let them eek by until the 20th). > I can can fit a working HP2114A in my Miata if I had to... Bring it! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 3 16:14:56 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Recently Sold on E-Bay Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512A4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Hey... Does anyone know if the "mldrew" (who had the winning $250.00 bid for that really pretty Eclipse sold on E-Bay a couple of weeks ago) is a list member or not? MLDREW, are you here? -dq From optimus at canit.se Tue Jul 3 21:40:44 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <230.585T2200T2206249optimus@canit.se> Will Jennings skrev: >Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called >dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... They do, but they brew it on ginger. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jul 4 08:54:32 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And the weed, mon. They have the bestest weed... On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called > dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rcini at optonline.net Wed Jul 4 09:09:48 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Win3.1 DDK Message-ID: I'm looking for a copy of the Windows 3.1 Device Driver Kit so that I can get the debug symbols for use with Sourcer for some spleunking that I'm doing. I have the SDK, but not the DDK. Contact me off-list if someone has it. Thanks again. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 4 09:20:20 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010704091928.01ee1220@pc> At 11:07 PM 7/3/01 -0700, Jim Arnott wrote: >Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of >Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by >about ten years. It's funny what you read when you take the time. :-) - John From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jul 4 09:48:16 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> Ok, I've submitted an application to exhibit. Can anyone who's been to a VCF event provide any tips and pointers? In addition to my vintage machine, what should I bring or prepare? From curt at atari-history.com Wed Jul 4 10:01:59 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> Message-ID: <003c01c1049a$46b1d9e0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Bob, VCF is more then just putting a computer on a table and letting people see it or type on the keyboard. Its about showing people the history and information behind the machine. Presentation and content for your display are important. If you have old magazine articles, photo's, ad's, technical documents and so forth, make a nice display with some foam board from Staples/Office depot and. Make a timeline of events, really show people whats behind that system so they can walk away knowing more, if you can photocopy stuff for handouts, thats always good too. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Questions on VCF East. > Ok, I've submitted an application to exhibit. > > Can anyone who's been to a VCF event provide any tips and pointers? > > In addition to my vintage machine, what should I bring or prepare? > From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 10:19:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <003c01c1049a$46b1d9e0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> <003c01c1049a$46b1d9e0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Message-ID: Do any of the Amiga user's on the list use either Amiga OS 3.5 or 3.9? If so, how well does it run on a stock, non-accelerated machine such as an A3000 or A4000? Is it a big enough jump over 3.1 to warrant the upgrade? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 4 11:15:12 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. The students > open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely > spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I > apparently didn't learn much. Apparently you received the same basic education, with regards to history, that, or better than, most of our politicians received. I recon that if most of our politicrats were asked what such concepts as freedom and liberty mean, or what the objectives of the founding fathers were, one would just get a response like "huh?" or "I don't think that I understand the question." *** The Truth about the 4th of July in America *** The 4th of July in America has degenerated into a big hypocritical joke. People are out celebrating just to celebrate, not giving a damn about the revolution and related ideas that they're supposedly celebrating. Our pea-brained, tax-hungry, freedom and liberty opposed politicians have the audacity to ride in 4th of July parades where foolish people cheer them on instead of booing them and tossing rotten eggs, or worse, at them. The 4th of July holiday is now all about nationalism, not patriotism, as flag waving loonies cheer on their tyrannical oppressors. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 4 11:38:54 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: Sellam Ismail wisely wrote: > Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very > disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have > ended up with today :( Well said! All that most of the present politicians in the U.S. appear to be concerned with today are taxation, oppression, lining their pockets with cash, and being pawns of business interests. Why don't they just rename the USA to something like the United Police State of America and have it over with? Back something slightly more on-topic: how many here, when giving further tought to the pros and cons of computers get the feeling that we'd all be better off if computers and some related technology didn't exist? I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt to "catch criminals." In other words, they're comparing people's faces to pictures of criminals in a database. Those seen talking with suspected criminals, or those with similar faces, become suspects as well. Very Orwellian. Why people aren't shooting at the cameras and protesting against their use, I don't know or understand. I guess that "good little citizens of the state" (foolish, senseless, people) ought not do such things. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 4 12:08:44 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) In-Reply-To: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > -uSpeed Fast 88, "Made in the USA and we are proud of it", I don't even > know what it is... it is on a piece of angled aluminum with a small PCB, > and has 4 chips along with some resistors and 4 clock crystal looking > dealies. Is connects to an XT usinf a 20 connductor ribbon cable that > goes to a dip socket on the MB.... wierd huh? If you what it is.... > PLEASE tell me :-) If you want to know what it is, then you SHOULD say WHAT the 4 chips are, both chip numbers and sizes. Are they 40 pin? And WHICH dip socket on the motherboard? a ROM socket? the CPU socket?, . . . It is probably one of the "speedup" boards, that supplants the 4.77MHz 8088 with something faster. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 12:18:46 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Looking for Vance Dereksen/Shridar Ayengar (OT, sorry) Message-ID: I hate to put this on the list but I am unable to get Sridhar Ayengar (Vance Dereksen) concerning some books he wanted. I need to hear from him in the next few days or another buyer/recipient/etc will be found. Peace...and write me... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010704/b4ac224e/attachment.html From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 12:15:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what song is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 11:15 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) -> -> -> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: -> > Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. -> The students -> > open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely -> > spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I -> > apparently didn't learn much. -> -> Apparently you received the same basic education, with regards to -> history, that, or better than, most of our politicians received. I -> recon that if most of our politicrats were asked what such concepts as -> freedom and liberty mean, or what the objectives of the founding -> fathers were, one would just get a response like "huh?" or "I don't -> think that I understand the question." -> -> *** The Truth about the 4th of July in America *** -> -> The 4th of July in America has degenerated into a big hypocritical -> joke. People are out celebrating just to celebrate, not giving a damn -> about the revolution and related ideas that they're supposedly -> celebrating. Our pea-brained, tax-hungry, freedom and liberty opposed -> politicians have the audacity to ride in 4th of July parades where -> foolish people cheer them on instead of booing them and tossing rotten -> eggs, or worse, at them. -> -> The 4th of July holiday is now all about nationalism, not patriotism, -> as flag waving loonies cheer on their tyrannical oppressors. -> -> -- -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> other animals: -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> above Nature & -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> to justify such -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -> From r.stek at snet.net Wed Jul 4 12:57:43 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Canon CAT Message-ID: <000201c104b2$d4f76f40$0301a8c0@bob> I'm a little late in jumping in this thread, but I get the digest version of the list and don't always see things immediately. I, too, have a near mint Canon Cat in original box with manuals - two manuals for the Cat and one for its daisy-wheel printer (which I do not have). I would be happy to loan the documents to any list member to copy (or better yet to make PDF files). I'd make PDF files myself, but I am already behind in promised Sol docs for Jim Battle. I realize that not many of these were made (about 20,000 IIRC), but I wasn't aware of its "collectability quotient." Anyone with an extra Altair want to trade? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 4 13:24:04 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <001501c104b6$81e96480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" Wasn't that the one by Francis Schottky? John A. From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 4 13:34:24 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010703235040.03308b30@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Geoff Reed wrote: > the only time i've used loaddskf is to generate PS/2 reference disks > downloaded from ibm on a 3 1/2 inch drive. It is functional for both 5.25" and 3.5" disks dependent upon which size and format disk the image was made from, but will not translate. It might be possible to fool it into thinking that a 3.5" was a 5.25" 1.2mb, but you might need to change it in CMOS. Hmmm! I wonder if it will work with 8"? - don > > At 08:03 AM 7/3/01 -0400, you wrote: > > > Question 1: What the heck is up with loaddskf? Has anybody > > > run into problems with it when dealing with raw binary images? > > > It's supposed to work ... :-) > > > > > >I've never used it with anything other than 3 1/2 inch drives. > >Perhaps it has a table of drive types it supports...and only > >works with them. > > > >The only way to tell is to disassemble it and see. > > > >Bill > >--- > > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > > From stefan at softhome.net Wed Jul 4 13:38:58 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Olivetti Collectors around ? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010704203646.01fbc9c0@pop.softhome.net> Hi, I was wondering if there are any Olivetti collectors around. Since I have quite a few manuals in the well known Olivetti plastic boxes double I'd like to swap for anything else. Also I have like 6 crates full of parts that came out of Olivetti machines that were made in the '70's. Let me know if you are interested. cya, Stefan. http://www.oldcomputercollection.com From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 4 13:59:50 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what song > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. I wonder if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of Maryland. Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the border that were selling the fireworks. Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be thunk by good little citizens, what? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Wed Jul 4 14:15:10 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010704121510.007e25a0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Good rescue! Why would a thermal printer need a ribbon? All the printers for my HP stuff just need thermal paper rolls. Edwin At 05:40 PM 6/30/2001 -0400, you wrote: > I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal >Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our .... >serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would >be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm >moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it > > Jeff From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jul 4 14:30:33 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. In-Reply-To: <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net>; from bshannon@tiac.net on Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:48:16AM -0400 References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010704123032.B23561@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 10:48:16AM -0400, Bob Shannon wrote: > Can anyone who's been to a VCF event provide any tips and pointers? > > In addition to my vintage machine, what should I bring or prepare? Prepare extra time. In the organized chaos that is the VCF, things seem to take longer than you expect (well, for me, anyway). That's especially a problem if you want to exhibit and buy stuff and talk with friends and see the speeches. -- Derek From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 14:30:18 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the fireworks - they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" commercials, laws, etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see the prices for cheap crap that spits some sparks and just say the hell with it. It's quiet here in rural KY too and the local displays really suck. No more of the aerial "booms" that used to be part of the aerial displays - our wonderful city and county governments have restricted their use to just at dusk, so as not to piss off any of the people that don't give a rat's behind and want to go to sleep at 8pm and not be bothered. I have a little surprise for my neighbors...my last trip into Tennessee yielded a large box of very loud fireworks and they won't be lit until I am. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 2:00 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) -> -> -> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: -> > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and -> ask "what song -> > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. -> -> Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled -> in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. -> -> It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. -> I wonder -> if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of -> Maryland. -> -> Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap -> guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical -> politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, -> then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a -> watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on -> in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, -> bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic -> displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) -> -> Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; -> we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South -> Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West -> Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the -> border that were selling the fireworks. -> -> Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal -> fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after -> all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason -> for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give -> people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more -> vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt -> politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising -> every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be -> thunk by good little citizens, what? -> -> -- -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> other animals: -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> above Nature & -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> to justify such -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -> From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 14:33:12 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010704121510.007e25a0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: Some thermals use the heat of the printhead to blacken the thermal paper, others use the heat of the head to melt off the coating on a plastic ribbon (like the old Commodore color printers) - some can do either, such as Zebra, DataMax, etc. The serial printers that UPS accounts use to make shipping labels have thermal labels. The Zebra/Datamax types that I've worked and used work well with either a ribbon or thermal labels, mostly for barcodes. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Edwin P. Groot -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 2:15 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> -> -> Good rescue! Why would a thermal printer need a ribbon? All the -> printers for my HP stuff just need thermal paper rolls. -> Edwin -> -> At 05:40 PM 6/30/2001 -0400, you wrote: -> > I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal -> >Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our -> .... -> >serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would -> >be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm -> >moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it -> > -> > Jeff -> From cbajpai at mediaone.net Wed Jul 4 14:40:35 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great find. This has got to be one of the earliest apple printers...I've seen it is some early apple ads. Did thermal printer actually have heads? I thought the trick was in the paper. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 5:40 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our building. It's model# A9M0306 and while I've seen plenty of Imagewriter's and other Apple printers, this is the first time I've come across one of these. I almost passed it up because at first glance it appeared to be just another 80 column dot matrix. Two things that caught my eye were the old multi-color Apple logo and the serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it for the cost of shipping. Otherwise I'll likely hold on to it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 4 14:51:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <000d01c104c2$ced1b160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, a tour of Ft. McHenry would't be enough ... Keep in mind that the moron in the White House went to a private school, too, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had to be coached to recognize our national anthem right up to the time he began to attend baseball games regularly. Keep in mind, that it was in the early '50's that the line "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance, a fact which wasn't lost on me, as a new imigrant, though it's likely a number of native born kids in my then 3rd grade class missed it. I believe that if folks would take religion out of politics, as we want everybody else, particularly the Iraqi's and Iranians, in the world to do, we'd be better off. I have my own beliefs but certainly don't want to be just another of those annoying twits who's got to try them out on someone else to see if they make sense. It reflects a pretty funny way of "believing" if you ask me, which I don't recommend. See below, plz Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:59 PM Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what song > > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. > > Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled > in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. > > It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. I wonder > if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of > Maryland. > > Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap > guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical > politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, > then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a > watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on > in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, > bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic > displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) > Some of those same things were legally practiced when I was aged <10. Frankly, I appreciate the quiet so far today. There'll be plenty of noise tonight when the druggies are shooting at the cops and vice-versa, and the fire department is out trying to keep the fireworks fanatics from burning down the town, and the ambulances are hauling off the injured bodies, many of which will be repaired at taxpayer expense because the same idiots who isist on using illegal fireworks aren't smart enough to know how to do it without messing somebody or something up. I'll be out in the yard with my garden hose, putting out the pop-bottle rockets on my roof, courtesy of the guy across the street, even though they're illegal anywhere in the state. It's not just illegal to discharge them, it's illegal to have them, yet folks do. Now, those same guys will holler if, say, somebody has a dog off-leash, or not wearing his collar with rabies tags ... > > Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; > we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South > Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West > Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the > border that were selling the fireworks. > It's funny how many "Law and Order" types think it's OK to thumb their noses at some laws, depending on their own preferences. > > Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal > fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after > all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason > for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give > people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more > vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt > politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising > every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be > thunk by good little citizens, what? > Such thoughts normally aren't "thunk" by persons of greater-than-room-temperature I.Q. The reason there's a right to keep and bear arms is that if private individuals don't have that right, the government will be the only one with guns, and they've already got their boots on our necks. The only requirements ought to be that in order to purchase and own a gun one must have (1) scored 101 or higher on a standard IQ test, (2) held a job for at least 3 consecutive years of his life, (3) hasn't ever committed a felony or a misdemeaner involving violence, and (4) demonstrate by regular blood, urine, or hair tests, at his own expense, that he/she doesn't use illegal chemicals, or alcohol to illegal levels. Failing any of these qualifications, even once, should permanently and forever disqualify him from going within 10 meters of a firearm not being used against him. Punishment for violation should be immediate immersion in molten iron. A monthly list of apologies should be issued for cases in which there might have been an error. Further, I believe that every citizen should be required to demonstrate his ability to read, write, and spell well enough that he could write the Declaration of Independence without spelling errors, repeat it, pronouncing each word correctly, defining each word correctly, and by paraphrasing every paragraph correctly in context. Failure to do so, even once, should result in that citizen's enrollment in a class to which he/she will be confined until they repeatedly pass these tests three times in succession, only after which they'll be allowed to eat, drink, or go to the bathroom. Not everybody feels this way, however. Some may even believe that's a good thing. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Jul 4 15:00:08 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 References: Message-ID: <3B4375C8.1ECECD5E@idirect.com> >Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > > If a mechanical reader example is one that has a plate with 960 copper plated > > raised areas over which the card was placed, then I would also need to know > > how the optical mechanism functions. From what I remembered of the high > > speed card readers, they usually fed the card into a slot around a curved > > read area where I presume the light shone through. I would think that for the > > light reader mechanism, timing would be critical. > What I learned in school 35 years ago: > Long ago, IBM patented the shape of the hole, and a few companies > attempted to build machines with round holes! But THAT is not the > issue. That patent was overturned. Jerome Fine replies: Typical of a large company to try and obtain a monopoly on an idea that is so generic. Sounds like the DEC patent on the MSCP bit. > Then, in their ongoing efforts to mistreat the competition, IBM patented > their brass roller. The IBM card reading system consisted of a brass > roller and a group of metal brushes. Which brush made contact was one > axis, and the rotational position of the roller was the other axis. IBM's > actions backfired. They ALMOST worked - several competitors almost went > under when they could no longer use a brass roller. Bizarre, stupid > things were tried, such as 960 plungers in a grid. Then one company > (CDC?) succeeded in what had previously been too great an engineering > challenge, and came out with an optical reader (12 photocells and a > roller). In addition to getting around the IBM patent, they also ended up > with a card reader that could be made to run much faster than the fastest > that IBM had to offer; thus bringing them back from the brink and into the > lead. I saw the inside of one card reader which had a platform on which the card rested while some sort of "plungers" attempted contact with 960 mountains sticking up about 1 millimetre above a bed of a non-conductive material. Each "mountain top" was the shape of the hole and probably made of copper which allowed for a contact through the hole (providing the chad had been removed). As for the CDC card reader, it definitely was MUCH faster, probably at least 10 times the speed. The feed mechanism used air to move the card though the slot past the photo cells. The rest of the CDC hardware also seemed to work much better than any IBM stuff. In addition, I seem to remember that on the UNIVAC 1107 that I used just prior to the CDC 3500 the same sort of card reader was present. What I had not realized is that the basic design of the card reader may have come from CDC? My experience with non-IBM hardware started around 1963 with the UNIVAC 1107 running EXEC II is I remember correctly - a vast improvement over what was available at the time on the IBM 7094. > > Tolerance issue? Sorry, I have no idea as to the requirements, but I often > > found that the first attempt to add a character with an 029 resulted in a misplaced > > punch for just the added character - so a duplicate and a second attempt > FIX THAT PUNCH! > I have never had that problem with a properly aligned 029. But they DO > need to be aligned and adjusted occasionally. > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com I did not explain myself properly. Since I never learned to touch type, when I wanted to add a character to a card somewhere in the middle of the existing characters, it was possible (on an 029 with the tension correctly adjusted) to hold the feed drum of the card being duplicated and allow the card that was being punched to advance normally after the key stroke had been performed. Often the tension was a little bit off and the hole punched during that operation was misplaced. If so, a third card could be punched that needed just one or two manual characters punched since the rest could be punched from the second card which had all the rest of the holes in the correct place after the one additional column had been inserted (although slightly misplaced). Note that sometimes the tech support would refuse to re-tension the 029 when this procedure would not work on the basis that the 029 was not designed for this operation. When that happened, I just fell back on the fact that the tension was incorrect and after the tech left if would always work fine for me again. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 4 15:07:32 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <001901c104c4$f5f72340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Careful now! Last year a fellow right here in the neighborhood shot his neighbor for making too much late-night fireworks noise ... it wasn't on the 4th, but you know how some morons are with their fireworks. As far as I'm concerned, you've got every right to make all the noise you want ... right up to the point where I have to listen to it. That goes for fireworks, fighting with your spouse, yelling at your kid or your dog, or playing your stereo. If I hear any of that, I file a complaint. I figure a loud motorcycle is fair target practice, and if one shoots the speakers out of a car playing its radio too loudly, the most he should be charged with is discharging a firearm into a public nuissance. If you want to swing your arms, be sure you're far enough away from your neighbor that you don't irritate him. That's why I back the mandatory concealed weapons initiative. You get one free kill at birth, can carry a gun at age 15, and don't have to tell anybody whether you've exercised your right yet. An armed society is a polite society, doncha know ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the fireworks - > they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" commercials, laws, > etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see the prices for cheap crap > that spits some sparks and just say the hell with it. It's quiet here in > rural KY too and the local displays really suck. No more of the aerial > "booms" that used to be part of the aerial displays - our wonderful city and > county governments have restricted their use to just at dusk, so as not to > piss off any of the people that don't give a rat's behind and want to go to > sleep at 8pm and not be bothered. > > I have a little surprise for my neighbors...my last trip into Tennessee > yielded a large box of very loud fireworks and they won't be lit until I am. > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 2:00 PM > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > -> > -> > -> On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > -> > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and > -> ask "what song > -> > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. > -> > -> Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled > -> in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. > -> > -> It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. > -> I wonder > -> if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of > -> Maryland. > -> > -> Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap > -> guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical > -> politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, > -> then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a > -> watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on > -> in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, > -> bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic > -> displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) > -> > -> Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; > -> we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South > -> Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West > -> Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the > -> border that were selling the fireworks. > -> > -> Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal > -> fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after > -> all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason > -> for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give > -> people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more > -> vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt > -> politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising > -> every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be > -> thunk by good little citizens, what? > -> > -> -- > -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & > -> other animals: > -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're > -> above Nature & > -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma > -> to justify such > -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > -> > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 15:13:57 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thermal printers have a print head/heads but they don't impact - most are stationary. All they do is create a matrix (like dot matrix)that heats according to the signal sent to it that it (in thermal transfer types)transfers the coating of the ribbon to the paper, or (in thermal paper types) heats the paper to create the image. They are rather pricey heads too - the Datamax Prodigy head costs over $300 at most suppliers. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chandra Bajpai -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 2:41 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> -> -> Great find. This has got to be one of the earliest apple printers...I've -> seen it is some early apple ads. Did thermal printer actually -> have heads? I -> thought the trick was in the paper. -> -Chandra -> -> -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige -> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 5:40 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> -> -> I walked out my door this afternoon to find an Apple Thermal -> Transfer printer sitting next to the garbage can outside of our -> building. It's model# A9M0306 and while I've seen plenty of -> Imagewriter's and other Apple printers, this is the first time I've -> come across one of these. I almost passed it up because at first -> glance it appeared to be just another 80 column dot matrix. Two -> things that caught my eye were the old multi-color Apple logo and the -> serial cable attacbed to it. It's missing whatever head/ribbon would -> be installed and I rescued it just minutes before a thunderstorm -> moved through. If anyone is interested in it, you're welcome to it -> for the cost of shipping. Otherwise I'll likely hold on to it. -> -> Jeff -> -- -> Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: -> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File -> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -> From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 4 14:28:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Back something slightly more on-topic: how many here, when giving > further tought to the pros and cons of computers get the feeling that > we'd all be better off if computers and some related technology didn't > exist? I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are You can make the same argument for guns, now can't you? The fact is, lambasting any technology because of what it can be used for is attacking the problem from the wrong end. The real concern should be ensuring that all technology is used in a responsible manner, whether it be a gun or a camera. The people we elect to be in charge of making these decisions are the ones who are accountable, meaning that we are accountable. The trouble is, in a democracy (which technical, we are not...we are a constitutional republic, or at least we're supposed to be) even the morons who would trade their inalienable rights for a false sense of security get to vote. So anything short of violent revolution will be inadequate to remedies the ills we suffer at the hands of our collective government. Remember, at the same time, we can use computers to counter the threats to civil liberties. Computers don't track people. People track people. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 4 14:32:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: OT: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the > fireworks - they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" > commercials, laws, etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see > the prices for cheap crap that spits some sparks and just say the hell > with it. It's quiet here in rural KY too and the local displays really > suck. No more of the aerial "booms" that used to be part of the aerial > displays - our wonderful city and county governments have restricted > their use to just at dusk, so as not to piss off any of the people > that don't give a rat's behind and want to go to sleep at 8pm and not > be bothered. You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set fire to their neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county councils that enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 4 15:50:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1136.585T2700T13106277optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: > Do any of the Amiga user's on the list use either Amiga OS >3.5 or 3.9? If so, how well does it run on a stock, non-accelerated >machine such as an A3000 or A4000? Is it a big enough jump over 3.1 >to warrant the upgrade? It really doesn't add much overhead compared to 3.1. It occupies more space, though not necessarily more than the heavily patched systems most 3.0/3.1 people run. Is it a big enough jump? Well, certainly a big jump from the stock 3.1 installation, but it really is a 3.x system with a lot of bells and whistles. I certainly like the new HDToolBox, in case you run drives over 4 GB, and over-all, you're spared from the headache of considering whayt patches to run, since all such functionality is in the box from the beginning. And if you run 3.9, you get media players and a nice TCP/IP stack which otherwise cost money. OTOH, it's a lot more fun to run once you've got a graphics card. But so is everything. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Netiquette: it's not just a good idea, there's actually an RFC about it! For the full details, check out . From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 16:00:00 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <1136.585T2700T13106277optimus@canit.se> References: <1136.585T2700T13106277optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Thanks Iggy, I knew you'd reply to my query! >It really doesn't add much overhead compared to 3.1. It occupies more space, >though not necessarily more than the heavily patched systems most 3.0/3.1 >people run. >Is it a big enough jump? Well, certainly a big jump from the stock 3.1 >installation, but it really is a 3.x system with a lot of bells and whistles. >I certainly like the new HDToolBox, in case you run drives over 4 GB, and >over-all, you're spared from the headache of considering whayt patches to run, >since all such functionality is in the box from the beginning. >And if you run 3.9, you get media players and a nice TCP/IP stack which >otherwise cost money. Thanks, as I was concerned about all the stuff they added to it slowing it down. It's likely a stock A3000 would have trouble with some of the media players, such as MP3, but that's ok. It'll be interesting to see how the included TCP/IP stack compares to Miami. Until I moved off of Amiga's for my main system, I had Miami, YAM, Amirc, the works running on it and was a registered user of all of them. >OTOH, it's a lot more fun to run once you've got a graphics card. But so is >everything. It looks like I'm finally getting another A3000 with a GVP Spectrum, which is the setup I had back in '94/95 until I damaged it while messing with getting an A3640 working in it. I always liked the Spectrum, even when using the EGS RTG software it shipped with, which is what I used with it even after I moved it to an A4000. In '99 I sold my A4000 and switched to Mac's for my main system but have continued to miss the A3000. In many ways, it was a much better machine than the A4000. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jul 4 16:17:02 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: <3B4375C8.1ECECD5E@idirect.com> Message-ID: <200107042117.QAA01576@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > As for the CDC card reader, it definitely was MUCH faster, probably > at least 10 times the speed. The feed mechanism used air to move the > card though the slot past the photo cells. The rest of the CDC hardware > also seemed to work much better than any IBM stuff. In addition, I seem > to remember that on the UNIVAC 1107 that I used just prior to the CDC > 3500 the same sort of card reader was present. What I had not realized > is that the basic design of the card reader may have come from CDC? > My experience with non-IBM hardware started around 1963 with the > UNIVAC 1107 running EXEC II is I remember correctly - a vast > improvement over what was available at the time on the IBM 7094. > I think (i dont have the book handy) that in "A few good men from Univac" the author discusses some of the CDC card reader history. Can someone who has a copy hand verify this? -Lawrence LeMay From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 4 16:28:18 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate good sense." It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only industrialized country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect those who are STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 1:32 PM Subject: OT: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the > > fireworks - they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" > > commercials, laws, etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see > > the prices for cheap crap that spits some sparks and just say the hell > > with it. It's quiet here in rural KY too and the local displays really > > suck. No more of the aerial "booms" that used to be part of the aerial > > displays - our wonderful city and county governments have restricted > > their use to just at dusk, so as not to piss off any of the people > > that don't give a rat's behind and want to go to sleep at 8pm and not > > be bothered. > > You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set fire to their > neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county councils that > enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 4 12:34:05 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010704213015.JDZN2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Chandra Bajpai" > To: > Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:40:35 -0400 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Great find. This has got to be one of the earliest apple printers...I've > seen it is some early apple ads. Did thermal printer actually have heads? I > thought the trick was in the paper. > -Chandra Also the horrid IBM quietwriter series I, II and III. If the head wear is excessive also worn brake pincher, the ribbon will snap on these IBM quietwriter series. Prints out laser-quality text and graphics especially on III. The speed I spell " SLOW" and table is quake hazard for anything sitting on it where that printer is placed. :-) Yesterday I saw 8 color text IBM dot matix wide printer w/ parallel interface. Anything special about it and driver available on most OSes? What about finding 4 color ink ribbon cartridges? Cheers, Wizard From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 16:35:35 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <005701c104d1$4328ae20$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set fire to their > neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county councils that > enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > I like the approach used in Missouri, you can buy anything you want, you just can't fire it off in the state. Right. I still have a few bricks of crackers from my last trip there, at least for a few more hours. From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 4 12:49:00 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Looking for Vance Dereksen/Shridar Ayengar (OT, sorry) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010704214509.LNU216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: "Classic computers message group" > Subject: Looking for Vance Dereksen/Shridar Ayengar (OT, sorry) > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:18:46 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I hate to put this on the list but I am unable to get Sridhar Ayengar (Vance > Dereksen) concerning some books he wanted. I need to hear from him in the > next few days or another buyer/recipient/etc will be found. > > Peace...and write me... > Helloooo Shridar....? Ditto... Waiting for his email return on our deal we're working on. No offense intended, just a reminder. Cheers, Wizard From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 4 16:53:22 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:18 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: <20010704213015.JDZN2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: The Quiet Writers are daisy wheel typewriters with a keyboard though, totally different than most thermals. The ribbon is a carbon film and uses the pressure to make the carbon separate from the carrier film. The mention of quake and slow are relative to the type of printer that they are - I've seen worse dot matrix (IBM 5224 and 5225). -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca -> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:34 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> -> -> > From: "Chandra Bajpai" -> > To: -> > Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer -> > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:40:35 -0400 -> > Importance: Normal -> > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> -> > Great find. This has got to be one of the earliest apple -> printers...I've -> > seen it is some early apple ads. Did thermal printer actually -> have heads? I -> > thought the trick was in the paper. -> > -Chandra -> -> Also the horrid IBM quietwriter series I, II and III. If the head -> wear is excessive also worn brake pincher, the ribbon will snap on -> these IBM quietwriter series. Prints out laser-quality text and -> graphics especially on III. The speed I spell " SLOW" and table is -> quake hazard for anything sitting on it where that printer is placed. -> :-) -> -> Yesterday I saw 8 color text IBM dot matix wide printer w/ parallel -> interface. Anything special about it and driver available on most -> OSes? What about finding 4 color ink ribbon cartridges? -> -> Cheers, -> -> Wizard -> From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 4 16:55:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) (Richard Erlacher) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15171.37054.634559.948794@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 4, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate good > sense." > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only industrialized > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect those who are > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from them. Yes, fighting Darwin all the way. I HATE that. Protect and coddle the stupid so they can annoy the hell out of the rest of us, and dilute the GOOD genes in the process. ARGH! -Dave McGuire From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 4 13:17:06 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Apple Thermal Transfer printer In-Reply-To: References: <20010704213015.JDZN2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010704221316.JLIO2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: > Subject: RE: Apple Thermal Transfer printer > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:53:22 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > The Quiet Writers are daisy wheel typewriters with a keyboard though, > totally different than most thermals. The ribbon is a carbon film and uses > the pressure to make the carbon separate from the carrier film. The mention > of quake and slow are relative to the type of printer that they are - I've > seen worse dot matrix (IBM 5224 and 5225). Not that kind of impacters. This print head is removeable has lot of electrical contact pads uses finely spaced traces that presses on the carbon-based ribbon. The short circuits it creates allows print to leave behind on paper because heat melts the ribbon. Whole "print head" thing has 2 motors, one to keep ribbon moving in short bursts, one to move the head in and leave there (during printing) That motor also lifts printhead off during non-printing also for reservsing back to start of line or to print again on specific areas. This motor doesn't only moves the head, it also unpinches both roller ribbon pinch and the brake as well when head is lifted. Printing mechanicals is *complex* and heavy that why printer lurches back and forth while it whips the assembly back and forth in 1 or 2 inches on certain characters before going on one direction then lifts off, advance the paper, whip the thing back to the start of new line to print. It prints one direction only. The contact pads is appox 50 by guess. The daisy wheels doesn't leave laser-quality characters. This one did which is amazing at that time back then. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 4 15:42:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: More free stuff from Michigan (PC based) In-Reply-To: <3B429828.B87D2C5D@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jul 4, 1 00:14:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1315 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010704/eb48efc1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 4 15:37:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: IBM 604 and calculator history In-Reply-To: from "Rick Bensene" at Jul 3, 1 06:38:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1409 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010704/58a453bc/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 4 17:53:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3024.585T900T14334861optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>It really doesn't add much overhead compared to 3.1. It occupies more space, >>though not necessarily more than the heavily patched systems most 3.0/3.1 >>people run. Is it a big enough jump? Well, certainly a big jump from the >>stock 3.1 installation, but it really is a 3.x system with a lot of bells >>and whistles. I certainly like the new HDToolBox, in case you run drives >>over 4 GB, and over-all, you're spared from the headache of considering >>whayt patches to run, since all such functionality is in the box from the >>beginning. And if you run 3.9, you get media players and a nice TCP/IP stack >>which otherwise cost money. > Thanks, as I was concerned about all the stuff they added to >it slowing it down. It's likely a stock A3000 would have trouble >with some of the media players, such as MP3, but that's ok. It'll be >interesting to see how the included TCP/IP stack compares to Miami. >Until I moved off of Amiga's for my main system, I had Miami, YAM, >Amirc, the works running on it and was a registered user of all of >them. I hope you've managed to scrounge enough ZIPs to accomodate the OS and applications. >>OTOH, it's a lot more fun to run once you've got a graphics card. But so is >>everything. > It looks like I'm finally getting another A3000 with a GVP >Spectrum, which is the setup I had back in '94/95 until I damaged it >while messing with getting an A3640 working in it. I always liked >the Spectrum, even when using the EGS RTG software it shipped with, >which is what I used with it even after I moved it to an A4000. In >'99 I sold my A4000 and switched to Mac's for my main system but have >continued to miss the A3000. In many ways, it was a much better >machine than the A4000. Well, the A3000 is prettier both externally and internally, and most importantly, it's OT, which the A4000 (thankfully) isn't. The A4000 is more spacious inside, and requires less screwing around (with a screwdriver). The Spectrum is no speed demon, but everything's better than the onboard graphics. You'll probably not run EGS, though, but either CyberGFX or Picasso96. The TCP/IP stack of 3.5 is just a demo of Miami, whereas Genesis, a new version of AmiTCP, is included in full in 3.9. I own a registered Genesis but since it's just a GUI shell for AmiTCP 4.5, I'm still running my old pirate copy of 4.5. =) I might add that I still run 3.0, though I've upgraded the Kickstart to 3.1 in anticipation of a possible upgrade. I just haven't bothered to upgrade since my system is just as I like it. Perhaps when I've got some money to spare... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. But a graphical client/server model that slices the interface down some arbitrary middle is like Solomon following through with his child-sharing strategy. The legs, heart, and left eye end up on the server, the arms and lungs go to the client, the head is left rolling around on the floor, and blood spurts everywhere. Don Hopkins - The Unix hater's handbook; The X-Windows disaster From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 4 19:51:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 Message-ID: <885.586T400T1113997optimus@canit.se> Upon reading http://www.breezer.demon.co.uk/spec/tech/ay-3-8912.html, I encountered the following: --- The AY-3-8910/8912 (and derivatives) has found its way into a variety of home computers and games consoles including the following: Sinclair ZX Spectrum 128/+2/+3 Amstrad CPC 464/664/6128 Mattel Intellivision BBC Micro Atari ST Sega Master System --- Well, it's true WRT the Speccy, the Ammy (I suppose you can't say that =) and the ST, but didn't we establish a while back that the BBC and Master System chip, the SN76489, while superficially similar, was a different construction. And as for the Intellivision, perhaps is it just due to the limited system in general, lack of space, or perhaps a slow driving clock, but with the sub- mediocre sound of the INTV, it seems like such a waste to employ a more adanced sound generator such as the AY, -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jul 4 19:12:09 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <230.585T2200T2206249optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001f01c104e7$22760180$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Will Jennings" Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:10 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > Will Jennings skrev: > > >Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called > >dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... In that case we are ALREADY the 52nd state.... Cheers Geoff in Oz From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jul 4 19:21:04 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Erlacher" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate good > sense." No, but it doesn't stop the government from trying. > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only industrialized > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect those who are > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from them. Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be doing something. cheers Geoff in Oz From mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net Wed Jul 4 19:28:35 2001 From: mbbrutman at bresnanlink.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... References: <200107041712.MAA33429@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B43B4B3.7A63DBAD@bresnanlink.net> Thank you everybody for the suggestions. Here is how things finally shook out. The Pentium machine had a real, 360KB drive in it borrowed from a PCjr. (I had stated that in the original note.) Formatting issues between 1.2MB drives and 360KB drives were not part of the equation. I tried formating the diskettes (double density, double sided) in both the 360KB drive on the Pentium and the 360KB drive in the PCjr. This did not seem to make a difference. Diskettes formatted and written by the Pentium machine were usually unreadable in the PCjr. In a few tests they were also unreadable in a second PCjr. Sometimes I could get a directory or copy a file, but usually I was getting the familiar "Abort, Retry, Ignore." A diskette "refresh" utility was reporting lots of read errors on sectors, some recoverable and some not. Diskettes written by the Jr were readable on the Pentium. Old diskettes written years ago were readable everywhere. (These were written by yet a different drive.) I deduced that since the Pentium 360KB drive was writing the diskettes and two PCjrs couldn't read them, that it must be the Pentium 360KB drive causing the problems. So I swapped it out and put a 1.2MB drive in it's place. I know about the head width problems, but would you believe that one of the Jrs was able to read diskettes created on the 1.2MB drive? To make a long story short, the 360KB drive in the Pentium was ok, the 1.2MB drive can write 360KB diskettes that are readable on the PCjr, and one of the PCjr drives is flakey. I think I was unlucky in my early testing when both Jrs balked at the diskettes created on the Pentium. One of the Jrs drives is know known to be bad, one is confirmed good, and the 360KB drive on the Pentium is good, yet a diskette created on the Pentium caused read errors on both Jrs, which led me to suspect the wrong drive. I've not been able to reproduce that error again. Now for the bad drive ... If I clean the rails with alcohol and lube them with silicone spray, it does a slightly better job of reading foreign (i.e.: not its own) diskettes. Based on this, methinks that the head is not being positioned exactly where it should be. However, those rails are pretty clean now and the problems persist. It's an old Qume drive, 1/2 height. I'm saving the drive for now, but a flakey 5.25 inch drive isn't of much use. And I've also learned that DOS 2.1 does NOT tolerate diskette errors during the boot process. :-) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 4 19:37:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the fireworks - >they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" commercials, laws, >etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see the prices for cheap crap >that spits some sparks and just say the hell with it. It's quiet here in >rural KY too and the local displays really suck. No more of the aerial My dad used to tell me about 4th of July when he was a kid. They used to play "war" games with roman candles, and not some little sissy version, but 2 ft long tubes that would shoot a fireball quite a distance. Everybody with a gun would fire off a few patriotic rounds too. Now to have a little fun you have to go to Iraq or something. From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 4 20:05:04 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <3024.585T900T14334861optimus@canit.se> References: <3024.585T900T14334861optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >I hope you've managed to scrounge enough ZIPs to accomodate the OS and >applications. It supposedly has 14meg total, which was enough to do most anything I wanted to before. I was never one to run a bunch of Magic WB stuff and whatnot. It'll be cool having an ECS machine to run all the old Eric Schwartz animations off of his CD though! A lot of them didn't like AGA on the A4000 and neither my A1000 or A500 have enough RAM for a lot of them. >The A4000 is more spacious inside, and requires less screwing around (with a >screwdriver). One thing that always annoyed me about the A4000 is that they didn't make the 5-1/4" drive bay just a fraction of an inch longer so that most any drive would fit properly. That and the horrid RAM access times. The A4000 also needed the A3000's scandoubler. The A3000's problems were primarily due to chip revisions and once those were updated, the machine was quite solid while the A4000's design was compromised in a number of places. Given that it and the A1200 have been in production so long, I would imagine there are a great many more of them around. >The Spectrum is no speed demon, but everything's better than the onboard >graphics. You'll probably not run EGS, though, but either CyberGFX or >Picasso96. Pretty much everything I did though ran well enough under EGS. I didn't have the need for anything that was Cybergfx-specific. I used it because it came with the board, which was in production at the time under the original GVP. It being a ZIII board, it's faster than a good many other graphics boards out there, including the more popular Picasso II. I guess if I wanted speed, I'd go with something like the Cybervision or Retina boards. Does OS 3.5 or 3.9 ship with RTG software or do you still have to get it seperately? Still, I like the way the Spectrum passes through the onboard video modes. >The TCP/IP stack of 3.5 is just a demo of Miami, whereas Genesis, a new >version of AmiTCP, is included in full in 3.9. I own a registered Genesis but >since it's just a GUI shell for AmiTCP 4.5, I'm still running my old pirate >copy of 4.5. =) The last time I ran AmiTCP was version 4 and it was terrible setting it up. None of the graphical front ends worked like they were said to either. I'll likely go back to Miami then. Thankfully, I just found a disk that purports to be my backup registration disk for various Amiga programs! I should still have my WB 3.1 disks here somewhere...I'll just need to get the ROMs. It's sad to see how many of the old 3rd party companies have gone under or exited the Amiga area. I've got like 3 years of 'Amazing Amiga', right up until it went under, and the last issue of 'Amiga World' around here in a box somewhere. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 4 21:04:48 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RA90/RA81 drives available Message-ID: <15171.52032.644624.279490@phaduka.neurotica.com> Anyone interested in some RA90s? I have eight available for pickup in Laurel, MD. I also have a pair of RA81s in a short rack. Email me off-list to arrange pickup. First come (well, first email), first served. -Dave McGuire From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Jul 5 01:13:40 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all citizens vote. I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it required that you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? Jim Davis. Geoff Roberts wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > good > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) > In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a > bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. > > Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth > of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be > doing something. > > cheers > > Geoff in Oz From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 4 22:16:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5172.586T1950T2565287optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>I hope you've managed to scrounge enough ZIPs to accomodate the OS and >>applications. > It supposedly has 14meg total, which was enough to do most >anything I wanted to before. I was never one to run a bunch of Magic >WB stuff and whatnot. It'll be cool having an ECS machine to run all >the old Eric Schwartz animations off of his CD though! A lot of them >didn't like AGA on the A4000 and neither my A1000 or A500 have enough >RAM for a lot of them. Well, you can't go much further than that on the mobo IIRC. >>The A4000 is more spacious inside, and requires less screwing around (with a >>screwdriver). > One thing that always annoyed me about the A4000 is that they >didn't make the 5-1/4" drive bay just a fraction of an inch longer so >that most any drive would fit properly. That and the horrid RAM >access times. The A4000 also needed the A3000's scandoubler. The >A3000's problems were primarily due to chip revisions and once those >were updated, the machine was quite solid while the A4000's design >was compromised in a number of places. Given that it and the A1200 >have been in production so long, I would imagine there are a great >many more of them around. You mention the points which IMO makes the A3000 prettier. The A4000, for all its shortcomings, is somewhat easier to handle, though. You can fit a CD-ROM internally, although it's cramped. At the usergroup, we had one A4k with a CD- ROM protruding some cm out of the bay. Not a pretty sight. =) Similarly, the RAM may be hideously slow, but at least it uses SIMMs. Getting hold of ZIPs is a bloody pain in the neck (are there any list members out there who happen to have any to spare? =). The A1200 is common, but it is essentially a closed architecture. Unless you're adventurous and put it in a tower with a slot card and all that, but it still turns out as a mediocre imitation of a real big-box machine. Still, given a PCI backplane, it turns out a rather cheap solution compared to a similarly equipped Zorro Amiga. >>The Spectrum is no speed demon, but everything's better than the onboard >>graphics. You'll probably not run EGS, though, but either CyberGFX or >>Picasso96. > Pretty much everything I did though ran well enough under >EGS. I didn't have the need for anything that was Cybergfx-specific. >I used it because it came with the board, which was in production at >the time under the original GVP. It being a ZIII board, it's faster >than a good many other graphics boards out there, including the more >popular Picasso II. I guess if I wanted speed, I'd go with something >like the Cybervision or Retina boards. Does OS 3.5 or 3.9 ship with >RTG software or do you still have to get it seperately? Still, I >like the way the Spectrum passes through the onboard video modes. The fact that the newer OSes ship with either RTG system mention above is why I said you'd probably run those instead of EGS. Especially if you'd like to run new software, though I'm not familiar with EGA myself. Didn't it deviate somewhat from the usual WB look? ISTR screenshots in mags with gadgets which seemed to come from a Motif system. I didn't know that the Spectrum was a ZIII board, and thought it was very similar to the Picasso II in performance. I run a Retina ZIII myself, and while it doesn't put up much of a match against newer boards, it is competent enough. Certainly better than the PII. >>The TCP/IP stack of 3.5 is just a demo of Miami, whereas Genesis, a new >>version of AmiTCP, is included in full in 3.9. I own a registered Genesis >>but since it's just a GUI shell for AmiTCP 4.5, I'm still running my old >>pirate copy of 4.5. =) > The last time I ran AmiTCP was version 4 and it was terrible >setting it up. None of the graphical front ends worked like they >were said to either. I'll likely go back to Miami then. Thankfully, >I just found a disk that purports to be my backup registration disk >for various Amiga programs! I should still have my WB 3.1 disks here >somewhere...I'll just need to get the ROMs. Version 4 had an Installer-based setup program which worked fine enough for me when I was a newbie (once I had learned what to input where =). Genesis has a full MUI GUI which I don't think is any worse than Miami, although I've always avoided that stack (first due to its dependence on MUI, then because I've grown to like AmiTCP). But since you've got a Miami licence, go ahead and use that if you like. If you're used to UNIX systems, you'll feel right at home with AmiTCP, since it essentially is half a BSD. =) > It's sad to see how many of the old 3rd party companies have >gone under or exited the Amiga area. I've got like 3 years of >'Amazing Amiga', right up until it went under, and the last issue of >'Amiga World' around here in a box somewhere. Yes. BTW, you do have a CD-ROM, don't you? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a/AmigaOS 3.0. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jul 4 21:38:29 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) In-Reply-To: <001901c104c4$f5f72340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010704223829.00ef34a8@obregon.multi.net.co> At 02:07 PM 7/4/01 -0600, Dick wrote: >Careful now! . .snip >That's why I back the mandatory concealed weapons initiative. You get one free >kill at birth, can carry a gun at age 15, and don't have to tell anybody whether >you've exercised your right yet. An armed society is a polite society, doncha >know ... > >Dick \begin{criticism} Oh my god... this must be one of those``only in the US'' things... Really, the US stopped evolving (for the worse) as a society during the cowboy era... \end{criticism} I lived on and off in the US for 10+ years. I have been exposed to american culture since I was a child. Yet, it is still difficult for me to grasp the reason for so much cultural inertia in otherwise such sensible people. I have always thought that sensible people should be able to liberate themselves from culture and build a broader view of the world. Example: Jefferson wanted The People to be able to own guns so that the government would be afraid of The People; they would bear equal firepower. Times have changed. The People can't own nuclear weapons, and the government sure isn't afraid, because while voting can change the politicians' faces, it can't change the system. There are many people in the US who can see through all of this (take Chomsky, or even better, Benjamin Garber). But those are not the guys that CNN chooses to interview... Enough ranting... Back on topic: The Convergent Systems machines (NGEN series) that I found were sold by .... Datapoint!!! The circuit boards inside are clearly marked "Convergent"... but the user and service manuals clearly state "Datapoint 1200". I found one "CTOS boot and HD install disk" and one "CTOS HD System files" disk, but there is an empty floppy disk sleeve in the pack. Now, these floppy disks were dumped^H^H^H^H^H^Hstored under very adverse circumstances: fluctuating humidity and very fine sawdust (the university's carpentry shop was located next door). But I don't see any fungal growths. Still, I think I may have only one chance at reading and archiving the floppies. What method/hardware/software do you people suggest for the job? By the way, Tony would be anything but indifferent to the (dis)"service manuals"; they are essentially wintel-like step by step guides to decide which module/card to swap/replace... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From terryc at woa.com.au Wed Jul 4 22:39:53 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <3B43E189.B1EA623D@woa.com.au> Jim Davis wrote: > > you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? No - there is no way they can know who wrote "fsck all politicians" on an otherwise empty ballot paper - is there? and in Aus you may also find your vote is still legal even if you vote different from intructions. I.e. in some elections, all you need to do is vote 1 and only one. In other cases, they have specifically outlawed (= your vote is not counted). I am reminded with all the USA 4th July discussion of the Cobb cartoon for the USA bicentennial year. Background is a row of missiles, each number with a differeent year pre and post, but for 1976(?), the missile was replace with fireworks. The caption - now is a time to celebrate your rights, not exercise them. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jul 4 21:43:48 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <15171.37054.634559.948794@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010704224348.00ef75b8@obregon.multi.net.co> At 05:55 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: > Yes, fighting Darwin all the way. I HATE that. Protect and coddle >the stupid so they can annoy the hell out of the rest of us, and >dilute the GOOD genes in the process. ARGH! > > -Dave McGuire C'mon, Dave, I am sure that you realize that Darwin's idea of evolution has not been valid for our species for several millenia now... -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jul 4 21:54:13 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010704225413.00ef7dd8@obregon.multi.net.co> This is actually a great idea, provided that "none of the above" is an option in the ballot and that the winner is elected by simple majority with the "none of ..." votes counted. I wonder if the script writers for that Richard Pryor's movie actually read something about voting theories. By the way, one of the defects in the US system is that a "duopoly" of parties can stay in the power even if the simple majority doesn't like it. At 11:13 PM 7/4/01 -0700, you wrote: >I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all citizens vote. >I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it required >that >you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? >Jim Davis. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 4 23:09:49 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > You can make the same argument for guns, now can't you? The fact is, > lambasting any technology because of what it can be used for is attacking > the problem from the wrong end. That's how I was hoping someone would reply! :-) Please note that I was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote that. It's not the computers, guns, cars, knives or rocks that are dangerous, but the people who use them for harmful purposes. If we didn't have computers, they'd surely find a way to do something equally bad, would then not? > The real concern should be ensuring that all technology is used in a > responsible manner, whether it be a gun or a camera. The people we elect Indeed; well said. > to be in charge of making these decisions are the ones who are > accountable, meaning that we are accountable. The trouble is, in a > democracy (which technical, we are not...we are a constitutional > republic, or at least we're supposed to be) even the morons who would Yes, supposedly. > trade their inalienable rights for a false sense of security get to vote. > So anything short of violent revolution will be inadequate to remedies the > ills we suffer at the hands of our collective government. Yes, alas; it does appear that way. If only enough people would wake up to what's going on and send clear messages to their politicians, through effigies, letters, telephone calls, protests, shouting at them when they enter and leave their offices, and voting... the only problem is that at the polls, our choice is often limited to the lesser of two evils. There are, at least thus far, many legal, and non-violent, ways to annoy, anger, intimidate and frighten our elected officials who are harming us---not for the purpose of harming them, but just to wake them up to reality and let then know that they need to clean up their acts. To quote Benjamin Franklin on this subject: "Those people who would surrender some of their freedoms to obtain safety deserve neither freedom nor safety." (1776) I remember when a certain politician showed up at a local polling place a little over a decade ago. When he selected me as the first citizen to speak to upon getting out of his limousine, he made a little mistake. Right away, I put him on the spot about why I wouldn't vote for him, such as his being for high taxes, etc. Hey, why be respectful of the office of someone who doesn't earn my respect? The funny thing was, his guards sort of turned their backs as said what I had to say to him, not shooing me away. Anyway, he got so mad that he got right back into his limo, didn't attempt any more campaigning there, and gave me the "finger," as his car left the parking lot. :-) If more people would do such things, just think of the changes that we could make. > Remember, at the same time, we can use computers to counter the threats to > civil liberties. Yes; excellent point Sellam! > Computers don't track people. People track people. True. If, alas, we didn't have so many apathetic people, it would be much easier to stop those people who use technology for "big brotherish," Orwellian, purposes. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 4 23:51:59 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) (Carlos Murillo) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3.0.2.32.20010704224348.00ef75b8@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <15171.62063.606197.718665@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 4, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > Yes, fighting Darwin all the way. I HATE that. Protect and coddle > >the stupid so they can annoy the hell out of the rest of us, and > >dilute the GOOD genes in the process. ARGH! > > C'mon, Dave, I am sure that you realize that Darwin's idea of evolution > has not been valid for our species for several millenia now... I can hope, can't I? -Dave McGuire From red at bears.org Thu Jul 5 00:01:53 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Olivetti Collectors around ? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010704203646.01fbc9c0@pop.softhome.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Stefan wrote: > I was wondering if there are any Olivetti collectors around. Since I have > quite a few manuals in the well known Olivetti plastic boxes double I'd > like to swap for anything else. Do you have anything for this verdammte P6060? I can't find out a thing about it other than what's obvious from looking at it. ok r. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 01:13:15 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > You can make the same argument for guns, now can't you? The fact is, > > lambasting any technology because of what it can be used for is attacking > > the problem from the wrong end. > > That's how I was hoping someone would reply! :-) Please note that I > was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote that. It's not the > computers, guns, cars, knives or rocks that are dangerous, but the > people who use them for harmful purposes. If we didn't have > computers, they'd surely find a way to do something equally bad, would > then not? > Ask a question about a DECstation 78, you get silence. But just mention guns, and everyone's got something to say. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 5 01:48:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010704223829.00ef34a8@obregon.multi.net.co> References: <001901c104c4$f5f72340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704234813.02d99ae0@209.185.79.193> At 10:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >Times have changed. No they haven't. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 5 01:34:27 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Questions on VCF East. In-Reply-To: <3B432CB0.7164654C@tiac.net> References: <3B42932F.CDF4F523@tiac.net> <004501c10442$41dade60$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <006501c1045a$9ee72240$15b3b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704233207.02d99460@209.185.79.193> Write up a description of your exhibit, any history about the specific machines, and how they were used. Leave copies of these for those times when you're spending all your money in the swap meet portion :-). Winning exhibits (did you know there were prizes?) generally cover some area in depth, can be an entire line, or a particular example of something. If you can run your system put up a schedule of when you will be available to demonstrate it. --Chuck At 10:48 AM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >Ok, I've submitted an application to exhibit. > >Can anyone who's been to a VCF event provide any tips and pointers? > >In addition to my vintage machine, what should I bring or prepare? From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 5 01:41:09 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704233559.02d982b0@209.185.79.193> >The 4th of July in America has degenerated into a big hypocritical >joke. People are out celebrating just to celebrate, not giving a damn >about the revolution and related ideas that they're supposedly >celebrating. Our pea-brained, tax-hungry, freedom and liberty opposed >politicians have the audacity to ride in 4th of July parades where >foolish people cheer them on instead of booing them and tossing rotten >eggs, or worse, at them. Did it occur to anyone that perhaps there is an ongoing effort at perhaps enhancing this point of view? Many wars are fought with guns and bombs and people's lives, some wars are fought with lies. The United States has been in a state of perhaps undeclared war for some time with a group of people who are trying to pervert the ideas of the fundamental principles of the US constitution. The Constitutional preamble starts "We the people..." not "We the politicians..." for good reason. Anyway, it isn't Classic Computers so it doesn't belong here. But the war is real, we saw an interesting battle in November did we not? --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 5 01:42:35 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Looking for Vance Dereksen/Shridar Ayengar (OT, sorry) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704234156.02d99ea0@209.185.79.193> I'm looking for him too, I'm guessing his domain data is screwed up, certainly the DNS records are not correct. --Chuck At 12:18 PM 7/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >I hate to put this on the list but I am unable to get Sridhar Ayengar >(Vance Dereksen) concerning some books he wanted. I need to hear from him >in the next few days or another buyer/recipient/etc will be found. > >Peace...and write me... From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Jul 5 08:31:12 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704233559.02d982b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B446C20.8AF3E3E@gorge.net> We saw exactly how partisan the Supreme court was. And how elections of our alledged choices are bought and sold like so much raw meat on the chicago merck. I voted for none of the ruling party, The only way to solve this problem involves much blood and gunpowder and won't happen till the economy tanks in a major way. Sorry, very very sorry. Jim D. Chuck McManis wrote: > > >The 4th of July in America has degenerated into a big hypocritical > >joke. People are out celebrating just to celebrate, not giving a damn > >about the revolution and related ideas that they're supposedly > >celebrating. Our pea-brained, tax-hungry, freedom and liberty opposed > >politicians have the audacity to ride in 4th of July parades where > >foolish people cheer them on instead of booing them and tossing rotten > >eggs, or worse, at them. > > Did it occur to anyone that perhaps there is an ongoing effort at perhaps > enhancing this point of view? Many wars are fought with guns and bombs and > people's lives, some wars are fought with lies. The United States has been > in a state of perhaps undeclared war for some time with a group of people > who are trying to pervert the ideas of the fundamental principles of the US > constitution. The Constitutional preamble starts "We the people..." not "We > the politicians..." for good reason. Anyway, it isn't Classic Computers so > it doesn't belong here. But the war is real, we saw an interesting battle > in November did we not? > > --Chuck From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 5 07:52:56 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter Message-ID: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? Thanks. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From engdahl at cle.ab.com Thu Jul 5 08:34:11 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <000701c10557$2d562b00$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Here's a clip from my website with some pointers: --------------- XXDP -- I downloaded this, but haven't used it yet. It is my understanding that this is required to setup the RQDX3. manual: http://www.conknet.com/~w_kranz/pdp11/xxdpdoc.txt software: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp- 11/xxdp/ --------------- I'm probably going to face some of the same problems you are facing. I'm still using the Andromeda UDC11 on my 11/53, which works well, but I've got several RQDX3's I'll eventually have to get working. I'm in the process of building several 11/53's from scrounged parts. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Carman" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,vmsnet.pdp-11 To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:52 AM Subject: RD53 formatter > I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 > drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O > errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 > controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the > RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was > there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? > > Thanks. > > -- > Doug Carman > pdp11@bellsouth.net > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 5 08:28:53 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010704234813.02d99ae0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 10:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Times have changed. > > No they haven't. So true. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jul 5 09:28:02 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy Message-ID: Unfortunately, there's a guy here in Chicago who took a bullet through his skull last night: he was standing on his back porch while some people down the alley were celebrating by firing off guns and fireworks. He's not dead (yet), but definitely not in good shape. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 7:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) Everybody with a gun would fire off a few patriotic rounds too. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:32:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <005701c104d1$4328ae20$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001301c10567$a8738d40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The cops came around and hauled off the guy across the street last night for his excessive use of illegal fireworks. Apparently he set fire to a trash can in another of his neighbors' yards with a pop-bottle rocket. I hope they throw away the key! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 3:35 PM Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set > fire to their > > neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county > councils that > > enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. > > > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > I like the approach used in Missouri, you can buy anything > you want, you just can't fire it off in the state. Right. > > I still have a few bricks of crackers from my last trip > there, at least for a few more hours. > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 10:34:42 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <5172.586T1950T2565287optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010705153442.7253.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Jeff Hellige skrev: > > >>I hope you've managed to scrounge enough ZIPs to accomodate the OS and > >>applications. > > > It supposedly has 14meg total, which was enough to do most > >anything I wanted to before. > > Well, you can't go much further than that on the mobo IIRC. A little more - 2Mb CHIP and 16Mb FAST - 18Mb total, just like an A4000. > You mention the points which IMO makes the A3000 prettier. The A4000, for all > its shortcomings, is somewhat easier to handle, though. I have both an A3000 and an A4000 (each one was in turn my primary Amiga for years). I personally like the A3000 more, but the internal CD-ROM bay and the AGA chipset is mighty attractive (but so is SCSI-on-the-motherboard). > Similarly, the RAM may be hideously slow, but at least it uses SIMMs. Getting > hold of ZIPs is a bloody pain in the neck (are there any list members out > there who happen to have any to spare? =). I might have a few individual ones (like 6, not enough for a bank), but I think they are Fast Page, not Static Column. > The A1200 is common, but it is essentially a closed architecture. Unless > you're adventurous and put it in a tower with a slot card and all that, but > it > still turns out as a mediocre imitation of a real big-box machine. Still, > given a PCI backplane, it turns out a rather cheap solution compared to a > similarly equipped Zorro Amiga. I fell off the bandwagon by the time A1200 towers became common. Got a $10 A1200 motherboard that I started to repair (broken pins on an SMT DRAM, solder on *all* the I/O connector pins from a hack job, etc.), but that is such a low priority that I'll probably find a cheap/free A1200 before I get to it. I bought OS3.9 but have yet to load it. :-( -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 10:37:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010705153733.7656.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > Ask a question about a DECstation 78, you get silence. But > just mention guns, and everyone's got something to say. I don't feel like clogging this busy and mostly useful list with gun issues, but in the case of a DECstation 78, I've never seen one, so I have nothing to say. OTOH, if someone else is _talking_ about a VT-78, I'll be listening intently. I have a nearly perfect sample of the PDP-8 line (just missing a PDP-8/S and some form of VT-78). Since I doubt I'll ever get an -S, I'll have to hold on that some day I might find a VT-78 or WS-78. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:39:55 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <001d01c10568$bdcf4660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're right, of course, but this type of legislation is instigated not by random legislative supidity, but by insurance interests. They save lots of $$$ by avoiding the injuries and subsequent lawsuits. Here in the U.S. we have a really STUPID law, called the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945, that gets renewed every so often, the original purpose of which was to help the insurance industry grow to such extent that insurance would be available uniformly thoughout the country. Now, over 55 years later, it's still around, the insurance companies don't need it at all, but it still makes the insurance industry exempt from nearly all anti-trust laws. If you're curious, contact your federal legislators to see how they voted. I'll bet it's hard to get a straight answer, not only to how they voted, which, ultimately, is a matter of record, but watch what happens if you ask them WHY they voted for it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Roberts" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 6:21 PM Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > good > > sense." > > No, but it doesn't stop the government from trying. > > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only > industrialized > > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect > those who are > > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from > them. > > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) > In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a > bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. > > Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth > of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be > doing something. > > cheers > > Geoff in Oz > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:40:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <002301c10568$d9dd9640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, by all means, GO! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 6:37 PM Subject: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > >Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the fireworks - > >they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" commercials, laws, > >etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see the prices for cheap crap > >that spits some sparks and just say the hell with it. It's quiet here in > >rural KY too and the local displays really suck. No more of the aerial > > My dad used to tell me about 4th of July when he was a kid. They used to > play "war" games with roman candles, and not some little sissy version, but > 2 ft long tubes that would shoot a fireball quite a distance. Everybody > with a gun would fire off a few patriotic rounds too. > > Now to have a little fun you have to go to Iraq or something. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:41:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <002901c10568$edf6d9c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'll bet you can write someone in if you like! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Davis" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 12:13 AM Subject: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all citizens vote. > I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it required > that > you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? > Jim Davis. > > Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > > good > > > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) > > In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a > > bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. > > > > Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth > > of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be > > doing something. > > > > cheers > > > > Geoff in Oz > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 10:46:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004001c10569$a0fb1900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's because people all seem to care about guns ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 12:13 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > You can make the same argument for guns, now can't you? > The fact is, > > > lambasting any technology because of what it can be used > for is attacking > > > the problem from the wrong end. > > > > That's how I was hoping someone would reply! :-) Please > note that I > > was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote that. > It's not the > > computers, guns, cars, knives or rocks that are dangerous, > but the > > people who use them for harmful purposes. If we didn't > have > > computers, they'd surely find a way to do something > equally bad, would > > then not? > > > Ask a question about a DECstation 78, you get silence. But > just mention guns, and everyone's got something to say. > > From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Jul 5 11:12:52 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: OT: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 4, 2001 12:32:25 pm" Message-ID: <200107051612.JAA21313@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Pretty much most people have given in and said the hell with the > > fireworks - they've been so harrassed about them on "public service" > > commercials, laws, etc and when they go to a fireworks stand they see > > the prices for cheap crap that spits some sparks and just say the hell > > with it. > > You can blame the irresponsible cretins who haplessly set fire to their > neighbors' houses, and the over-reacting city and county councils that > enacted measures banning fireworks because of this. Last night, those cretins of which you speak were busily lobbing burning magnesium all over the tinder dry "extreme fire hazard zone" in which I reside. I wholeheartedly will support any laws that contain forced sterilization (of the perpetrator and their children) as punishment for such behavior. As a punishment for attempted mass murder, they'd be getting off lightly. (OK, I'm joking.... a little...) If these idiot want to reproduce, they should launch their fireworks in an area that isn't so flammable. Whatever happened to going to the beach for such things? Eric From owad at applefritter.com Thu Jul 5 11:15:33 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: FS/T: IBM 5363 II Message-ID: <20010705161533.22078@mail.earthlink.net> Pick up in south-central PA or at VCF East. IBM 5363 II In very nice condition and working when decomissioned; it spent all its life in the server room. I'm pretty certain it hasn't been opened or changed by anybody, so its probably original specs, but I don't have the time or interest to power it up and check. It has a 5.25" drive and a tape drive. IBM 9331 012 5.25" drive. It appears to have all the cables with it. two IBM 4869 5.25" drives. These appear to have all the cables with them. two IBM 5394-01B units. I'm not sure what these are, but they have built in 3.5" drives. two IBM terminals, P/N 83X7939. They have DB25 connectors and no keyboards; I'm not sure I have the cables to hook them up. If these are incorrect or more pieces are needed, I _might_ be able to get the proper terminals. Two Universal Data Systems V.32 modems with very impressive cables. Two cards that appear new in box, labeled P/N 7363223, in IBM labeld boxes. They almost look like PCI cards. I haven't the foggiest what they are or what they go to. The tape I offered free earlier this week and which nobody claimed fits in the IBM's tape drive, so it's included, too. I'd like to get rid of the stuff as one lot, but I'll sell just peripherals provided there's somebody interested in the 5363. Cash preferred, but I'll consider a trade. I have no idea what a 5363 II is worth, so go ahead and make an offer. Stuff I'd be willing to trade for: Apple & Mac clones Interesting Apple stuff PERQ/Alto/Star Canon Cat/Swyft Nutek One/Duet NeXT cube Apple II (plain II) LEGO stuff (be it electronic or just bricks) Note that "interesting Apple stuff" is an awfully broad category. Neat Apple II cards are good. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 5 12:22:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter In-Reply-To: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: >I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 >drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O >errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 >controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the >RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was >there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? There is an XXDP program to do this, as well as the MV II Diag Tape (not the customer diag tape though). However, the easiest way to do it is with a VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000 which has the necessary routines in it's ROMs. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 5 12:23:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <001301c10567$a8738d40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <005701c104d1$4328ae20$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >The cops came around and hauled off the guy across the street last night >for his >excessive use of illegal fireworks. Apparently he set fire to a trash can in >another of his neighbors' yards with a pop-bottle rocket. I hope they throw >away the key! You would just love it at Leisure World, seriously, look into it. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 12:35:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010705173530.77610.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 > >drives from a MicroVAX II... Does anyone know what is required to do > > this on an 11/83? Was there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? > > There is an XXDP program to do this, as well as the MV II Diag Tape (not > the customer diag tape though). However, the easiest way to do it is with > a VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000 which has the necessary routines in its ROMs. While the original question was in regards to an 11/83, I wanted to jump in on the VS/MV2000 recommendation and mention that I have found a couple of disks that would _not_ format under the ROM formatter there, but would do so on a uVAX-II w/FS Diag Tape formatter. The disks in question did have bad blocks that needed to be mapped and there was some reason I never did understand why the MV2000 could not do it. It appeared to work, but an Ultrix 2.0 install failed at the same point every time, due to the bad block that wasn't properly mapped out. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 5 12:49:57 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter In-Reply-To: Doug Carman "RD53 formatter" (Jul 5, 8:52) References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <10107051849.ZM27748@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 5, 8:52, Doug Carman wrote: > I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 > drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O > errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 > controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the > RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was > there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? If the drives came from a MicroVAX-II it's unlikely they were on an RQDX2. As far as I know, those machines all had RQDX3s. Anyone know differently? RD53's aren't the most reliable of drives, and it may be they really are failing. The TechTips said that there were a lot of problems with errors, especially on RQDX1 and RQDX2 controllers, due to over-long unscreened cables, or early revisions of the M9058 board. You might take a look at the cables and check the voltages at the drives too. Check the version numbers of the ROMs on the RQDX3 as well, early versions had some problems, and IIRC you are supposed to change W23 according to the drive type and RQDX3 revision level. The one in my 11/83 has 23-243E5/23-244E5 ROMs (that's revision 2, there is a later revision in 23-285E5/23-286E5 and the final version was 23-339E5/23-240E5) and W23 is made 1-2 and 3-4. You're right about XXDP. Specifically, XXDP Ver.2 (though XXDP+ should work too) and the program you want for formatting using an RQDX3 is ZRQC??.BIN (the latest version I have is ZRQCH0.BIN). ZRQB??.BIN is the formatter for an RQDX1/2 (ZRQBC0.BIN formats up to an RD53). There's XXDP documentation in both PostScript and PDF formats on my website at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/ Take a look in the /public/DECROMs directory too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 12:19:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:19 2005 Subject: Floppy woes ... In-Reply-To: <3B43B4B3.7A63DBAD@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jul 4, 1 07:28:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/772dc774/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 12:24:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <885.586T400T1113997optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 5, 1 01:51:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1393 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/144e95a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 12:29:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010704223829.00ef34a8@obregon.multi.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Jul 4, 1 10:38:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 790 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/738d46e5/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jul 5 12:58:01 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> It's always embarassing for me to have to ask Amiga questions here, but here goes... I'd like to make archival copies of the hard disk partitions in an A2000 and an A4000. I've got network cards and NFS running, so I want to find a tool for the Amiga that will convert a hard disk partition to an .HDF file that will mount under WinUAE. For example, I'd mount my NT machine's P: drive as NTp: on the Amiga, and the utility would write directly to "NTp:foo.hdf". I tried this once before with 'packdev' and no compression, but the results apparently weren't .HDF files and crashed the WinUAE emulator. Am I missing something obvious, like that the ADF-based tools will work with hard disks, too? - John From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Thu Jul 5 13:37:31 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D01@BUSH02> > The BBC micro doesn't have a AY-3-8910, period. I've just looked at the > schematic. > > You can add a couple of machines to the list, though : > > Vectrex games console > Tatung Einstein. > > Both of those contain AY-3-8910-related chips > Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 14:06:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 References: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D01@BUSH02> Message-ID: <001d01c10585$9bb98320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got a raw and unused AY-3-8910 in my parts drawers, if anybody has something interesting (component, raw, unused) they'd like to swap. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: RE: AY-3-8910 > > > The BBC micro doesn't have a AY-3-8910, period. I've just looked at the > > schematic. > > > > You can add a couple of machines to the list, though : > > > > Vectrex games console > > Tatung Einstein. > > > > Both of those contain AY-3-8910-related chips > > > Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos > > Lee. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The > information contained in this email may contain information which is > confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender > and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. > > If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please > delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International > IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. > > _____________________________________________________________________ > This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet > delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further > information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call > Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. > > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Thu Jul 5 14:20:24 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question In-Reply-To: <10107051849.ZM27748@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: 1. startup disk, 2. operating disk 3. missing 4. help disk. Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will happen if I try to install it? Thanx --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 15:00:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: <000701c1058d$1cff3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the check I wrote for one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one is making a bit of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the tray's empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there is once in a while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. It's toothless, though and doesn't shred the paper. Has anyone got a useful suggestion as to how to restore the formerly excellent feed capability of this otherwise quite excellent printer? Next question ... One other of these guys keeps displaying "Service 50" on his display. What does this mean? What does it want? thanks, Dick From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 15:04:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: <000b01c1058d$c3baa040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You might have some missing files ... but I don't know if you'll miss them. If this is a "set" which was not the most common practice with v3.30, but could have been done to make the system fit on fewer 360K diskettes, there may be other problems. I use 3.31, once in a while, which is probably pretty similar. The 3.31 was stolen from a client who used Compaq machines, but not by me ... Nevertheless a copy of the files ended up on my server ... The missing diskette, while this is only a guess, probably had utilities, e.g. basic, basica, etc. That was before scandisk, smartdrv, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 1:20 PM Subject: DOD 3.30 Question > I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: > > 1. startup disk, > 2. operating disk > 3. missing > 4. help disk. > > Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will > happen if I try to install it? > > Thanx > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- > > gene@ehrich.com > gehrich@tampabay.rr.com > P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 > > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic > Computer & Video Game Garage Sale > > > > > > From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jul 5 15:19:06 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <000701c1058d$1cff3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the check I wrote for >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one is making a bit >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the tray's >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there is once in a >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. It's toothless, >though and doesn't shred the paper. > >Has anyone got a useful suggestion as to how to restore the formerly excellent >feed capability of this otherwise quite excellent printer? It's a "marvel"... ;-) as in - Marven Mystery Oil. Used sparingly, it's quite good at putting the "stickyness" back into rubber grabbers. I've used it on quite a few HP deskjets & on 2 LaserJet HP4's... It's best used with a soft, cotton, lint free (or close) cloth. (read: Old T-shirt) >Next question ... > >One other of these guys keeps displaying "Service 50" on his display. What does >this mean? What does it want? dunno 'zactly, but if you go to "www.fixyourownprinter.com" (yea, it's a hokey URL) they have "kits" to fix the more common "service errors" for the HP LaserJets (with simple instructions...) IIRC, they have a search utility to see if they have a kit that matches your number. Their kits don't seem too outrageous in price, AFAICT... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 15:22:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <000701c1058d$1cff3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 5, 1 02:00:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3724 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/2dcece93/attachment.ksh From owad at applefritter.com Thu Jul 5 15:38:06 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: FS/T: IBM AS/400 9402 D02 Message-ID: <20010705203806.18939@mail.earthlink.net> IBM AS/400 9402 D02 Two hard drives, tape drive, a covered board that I presume is the motherboard. Looks complete to me, but I don't have much to compare it to. I haven't tried to run it and have no idea if it works. The blue ribbon across the top is a little rough; the computer is mildly marked, but not in especially bad condition. FS/T. Can be picked up in south-central PA or at VCF East. I'm not looking for much, just want to get rid of it. Tom P.S. Regarding the System 36 in my previous post, I also have a couple Sys 36 manuals, not originally with that particular 36, which I'll include. Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 15:40:09 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <5172.586T1950T2565287optimus@canit.se> References: <5172.586T1950T2565287optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Similarly, the RAM may be hideously slow, but at least it uses SIMMs. Getting >hold of ZIPs is a bloody pain in the neck (are there any list members out >there who happen to have any to spare? =). I remember a review for the DKB Rapidfire SCSI board a number of years back. It had 72pin SIMM sockets onboard and one of the points that the reviewer made was that as slow as the A4000's RAM was, unbeleivably the Rapidfire's RAM was even slower. The Rapidfire is a 16bit ZII card. I did use one to add cheap SCSI capability to my A4000 though and you could mount a drive directly to the board itself if you lacked additional drive space. >The A1200 is common, but it is essentially a closed architecture. Unless >you're adventurous and put it in a tower with a slot card and all that, but it >still turns out as a mediocre imitation of a real big-box machine. Still, >given a PCI backplane, it turns out a rather cheap solution compared to a >similarly equipped Zorro Amiga. It amazes me how expensive the later Amiga's still are, especially the newer A1200's and 4000's. Do people still pay those kind of prices for the 'new' ones? >run new software, though I'm not familiar with EGA myself. Didn't it deviate >somewhat from the usual WB look? ISTR screenshots in mags with gadgets which >seemed to come from a Motif system. Other than looking better on the higher resolution screen, I don't recall EGS changing the look of the WB at all. Maybe the screenshots were using varous WB enhancers such as Magic WB and MUI? >I didn't know that the Spectrum was a ZIII board, and thought it was very >similar to the Picasso II in performance. I run a Retina ZIII myself, and >while it doesn't put up much of a match against newer boards, it is competent >enough. Certainly better than the PII. Yeah, it's ZIII. It is autosensing with a jumper to force it to use ZII if needed for compatibility purposes. It only has 2meg of VRAM though vice the 4meg on other later boards. I've always heard good things about the Retina boards, but have never used one. >BTW, you do have a CD-ROM, don't you? Yes, multiple SCSI drives around here. I even have an older version of AmiCDFS here somewhere. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Jul 5 17:24:28 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3B44E91C.D6BFD837@heathers.stdio.com> The service 50 error means either a bad fuser assembly of AC power module. 9 times out of 10 it is the AC power module. Both are very easy to rplace on the II and III. Brian. Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: > >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the check I wrote for > >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one is making > a bit > >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the > tray's > >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there is once in a > >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. It's toothless, > >though and doesn't shred the paper. > > > >Has anyone got a useful suggestion as to how to restore the formerly > excellent > >feed capability of this otherwise quite excellent printer? > > It's a "marvel"... ;-) as in - Marven Mystery Oil. Used sparingly, it's > quite good at putting the "stickyness" back into rubber grabbers. I've used > it on quite a few HP deskjets & on 2 LaserJet HP4's... > > It's best used with a soft, cotton, lint free (or close) cloth. (read: Old > T-shirt) > > >Next question ... > > > >One other of these guys keeps displaying "Service 50" on his display. > What does > >this mean? What does it want? > > dunno 'zactly, but if you go to "www.fixyourownprinter.com" (yea, it's a > hokey URL) they have "kits" to fix the more common "service errors" for the > HP LaserJets (with simple instructions...) IIRC, they have a search utility > to see if they have a kit that matches your number. > > Their kits don't seem too outrageous in price, AFAICT... > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From philpem at btinternet.com Thu Jul 5 17:31:19 2001 From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:20 2005 Subject: Apple Disk II PROMs Message-ID: <001f01c105a2$3701f300$e69a7ad5@phoenix> Hi, I'm currently building a simple 6502-based computer trainer and I'd like to implement a floppy drive on it. Steve Wozniak's Apple Disk II interface (the FDD interface for the Apple II) is quite simple, but I need the data that was programmed into the PROMs (P5 and P6 - they're 6309s). If I'm interpreting the Apple Disk II schematics correctly, then the part designations are D3 and B3 (for the P5 and P6 ROM, respectively). Ideally, I'd also like a copy of the PROM data for the later revision of the Disk II (P5A and P6A). I've got some info on programming the Disk II, but without the PROM data, I can't even get the interface running! Thanks. -- Phil. http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/ philpem@bigfoot.com From CELang at worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 5 17:26:03 2001 From: CELang at worldnet.att.net (CELang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question Message-ID: <008701c105a1$7fe6f300$62834b0c@oemcomputer> When I got my Packard Bell '286 back when it was new, I got three diskettes: DOS 3.3, disk 1 DOS 3.3, disk 2 GWBASIC 3.2 BTW, hello. I still haven't seen my intro message yet. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Gene Ehrich To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, July 05, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: DOD 3.30 Question >I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: > >1. startup disk, >2. operating disk >3. missing >4. help disk. > >Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will >happen if I try to install it? > >Thanx > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ > >gene@ehrich.com >gehrich@tampabay.rr.com >P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 > >http://www.voicenet.com/~generic >Computer & Video Game Garage Sale > > > > > > From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Thu Jul 5 17:29:26 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller Message-ID: <3B44EA46.3338CA@pacbell.net> While searching through my collection of old Qbus cards I just discovered that I have a DSD 4140, which appears to be an RX02 compatible interface to Shugart SA800 or SA850 drives. The only documentation that I have is a small reference card which has the jumper configuration and a summary of the commands (from which it appears that the controller also supports formatting drives with a write sector command followed by a couple of magic values written to the data register). Does anyone have any more information / documentation for this controller? Since I don't have any 8" Shugart interface drives available I'm probably going to have to hook this thing up to a 5.25" or a 3.5" drive in order to try it out. I seem to recall that constructing a suitable 50 way to 34 way cable adaptor is relatively simple, but again I would appreciate references or more information from anyone who has done this kind of thing recently. Michael From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Jul 5 17:34:24 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server>; from gehrich@tampabay.rr.com on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 03:20:24PM -0400 References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <10107051849.ZM27748@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: <20010705153423.A6647@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 03:20:24PM -0400, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: > > 1. startup disk, > 2. operating disk > 3. missing > 4. help disk. > > Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will > happen if I try to install it? Here's how I understand it (someone correct me if I'm wrong) -- Even though IBM and Microsoft were using the same code in PC-DOS and MS-DOS, the distributions were not the same (different layout of files or different files). And Microsoft let OEM's tweak DOS for many years, so even all MS-DOS distributions with a given version number are not the same. So what brand names are on the disk labels? Do they match the brand of the computer you're installing on? (Installing some other OEM's version isn't _dangerous_, but you might not get the right obscure device drivers, fiddly little utilities, etc.) -- Derek From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jul 5 17:42:41 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3B44E91C.D6BFD837@heathers.stdio.com> References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010705174241.0096dd30@ubanproductions.com> Since it sounds like we have some people who are good at LaserJet questions... I have a LaserJet IIP, which intermittently has a problem with leaving large black smears across the output. Not the kind of smears you get with a dirty machine. I believe it may be a thermal problem as it tends to work properly when first used, but after a while, it begins to fail. Any ideas on this one? --tnx --tom From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 17:36:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <3B44E91C.D6BFD837@heathers.stdio.com> from "Brian Roth" at Jul 5, 1 06:24:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2292 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/1cd1f135/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 17:54:46 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010705174241.0096dd30@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jul 5, 1 05:42:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010705/d9afc653/attachment.ksh From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Thu Jul 5 18:17:07 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <001901c105a8$9d318f40$0101010a@pentium2> ----- Original Message ----- From: John Foust To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? > > It's always embarassing for me to have to ask Amiga questions > here, but here goes... > > I'd like to make archival copies of the hard disk partitions > in an A2000 and an A4000. I've got network cards and NFS running, > so I want to find a tool for the Amiga that will convert a hard > disk partition to an .HDF file that will mount under WinUAE. > > For example, I'd mount my NT machine's P: drive as NTp: on > the Amiga, and the utility would write directly to "NTp:foo.hdf". > > I tried this once before with 'packdev' and no compression, > but the results apparently weren't .HDF files and crashed > the WinUAE emulator. > > Am I missing something obvious, like that the ADF-based tools > will work with hard disks, too? > > - John > From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Thu Jul 5 18:19:56 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <001e01c105a9$01dc20e0$0101010a@pentium2> John Foust wrote: > For example, I'd mount my NT machine's P: drive as NTp: on > the Amiga, and the utility would write directly to "NTp:foo.hdf". I'm not sure about writing directly to a hardfile. I find it more useful to copy the hard disk to a Windows directory and have the emulator use this as a virtual hard disk. It is easier to manipulate file formats using the two operating systems. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jul 5 18:15:29 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: I thought I was the only one that used Marvel Mystery Oil (made for top end of engines) for the rollers on printers!. Also he can slightly bend up the tang that lifts the metal flp in the tray so it lifts properly - but too much will make it prevent the tray from going in or make it break at the bend. Also be VERY careful not to break the hair-thin wire under the toner cartridge - this is the corona wire and NOT repairable (just replaceable). -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Roger Merchberger -> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 3:19 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question -> -> -> Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: -> >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the -> check I wrote for -> >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one -> is making -> a bit -> >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the -> tray's -> >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there -> is once in a -> >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. -> It's toothless, -> >though and doesn't shred the paper. -> > -> >Has anyone got a useful suggestion as to how to restore the formerly -> excellent -> >feed capability of this otherwise quite excellent printer? -> -> It's a "marvel"... ;-) as in - Marven Mystery Oil. Used sparingly, it's -> quite good at putting the "stickyness" back into rubber -> grabbers. I've used -> it on quite a few HP deskjets & on 2 LaserJet HP4's... -> -> It's best used with a soft, cotton, lint free (or close) cloth. -> (read: Old -> T-shirt) -> -> -> >Next question ... -> > -> >One other of these guys keeps displaying "Service 50" on his display. -> What does -> >this mean? What does it want? -> -> dunno 'zactly, but if you go to "www.fixyourownprinter.com" (yea, it's a -> hokey URL) they have "kits" to fix the more common "service -> errors" for the -> HP LaserJets (with simple instructions...) IIRC, they have a -> search utility -> to see if they have a kit that matches your number. -> -> Their kits don't seem too outrageous in price, AFAICT... -> -> HTH, -> Roger "Merch" Merchberger -> -- -> Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers -> Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. -> -> If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead -> disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 18:23:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: Message-ID: <001101c105a9$8bb39aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Gee! You must have seen this a time or two, Tony. I started out with one LJ-III that was making a bit of noise, emanating from the upper right rear region of the printer where a rubber nipple apparently involved in paper transport protrudes into the accessible innards. I bought the two other LJ-III's on the off chance that one or the other would have the necessary parts to make the noise go away. The off-chance that one or the other of these could be induced to work was of interest as well. I paid $4 each for these printers, so there's no great loss if they don't work out. (The toner cartridges weigh nearly what a full one weighs, if that's any indication.) Unfortunately, they lack paper trays. The cost of the various repair kits, combined with the somewhat evasive information offered along with them, and the restocking charges associated with them, in case they don't help, make it unattractive simply to repair these printers. I remember paying $300+ for a logic board when I plugged the printer cable into a PAL programmer board on the back of a utility machine ... which I only did once, by the way, but to TWO printers, and these printers apparently have good logic boards. My understanding is that this fuser/AC PSU problem is one of the more common failure modes, though. Hopefully I can get at least one of these two "parts" printers running. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question > > > > > -tony > > From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 5 18:04:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <1573.587T1650T44927optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >It's always embarassing for me to have to ask Amiga questions >here, but here goes... >I'd like to make archival copies of the hard disk partitions >in an A2000 and an A4000. I've got network cards and NFS running, >so I want to find a tool for the Amiga that will convert a hard >disk partition to an .HDF file that will mount under WinUAE. I did archival copies today, but they're on a DDS tape. =) >For example, I'd mount my NT machine's P: drive as NTp: on >the Amiga, and the utility would write directly to "NTp:foo.hdf". >I tried this once before with 'packdev' and no compression, >but the results apparently weren't .HDF files and crashed >the WinUAE emulator. Haven't they once changed the format too, or was that just the addition of the .HDF extension? >Am I missing something obvious, like that the ADF-based tools >will work with hard disks, too? I recall reading a document about how someone transferred his HD to a HDF file, and I actually believe that he used Transdisk. OTOH you could try connecting the drives directly to the PC and do a "dd" or similar. Well, at least it's doable. Another idea would be to start UAE, install AmiTCP, or at least amiganetfs, and transfer the disk contents that way. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. - Hur tar du bilder fr?n TVn? - Jag anv?nder mig av en digitalkamera och fixar s? det blir m?rkt i rummet och kn?pper sedan bilden. - Hur g?r du dina mp3or? - Jag kopplar ett par h?rlurar till TVn, s?tter en mic framf?r h?rlurarna och spelar in med valfritt inspelningsprogram. Jenny Hannula From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 5 18:17:23 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D01@BUSH02> Message-ID: <816.587T1150T174471optimus@canit.se> Davison, Lee skrev: >> The BBC micro doesn't have a AY-3-8910, period. I've just looked at the >> schematic. >> >> You can add a couple of machines to the list, though : >> >> Vectrex games console >> Tatung Einstein. >> >> Both of those contain AY-3-8910-related chips >> >Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos Does anyone here have an Atmos? It's really an adorable design on the outside, with that black and red colour scheme. Doesn't seem that common, though there might be a lot in France, the traditional Oric stronghold. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 19:01:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Jul 5, 1 06:15:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 415 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/b203aaef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 19:03:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <816.587T1150T174471optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 6, 1 00:17:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 549 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/9c4d0650/attachment.ksh From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 5 19:26:05 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Space War? References: <200107051612.JAA21313@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3B45059D.3F0D81E1@tiac.net> As I understand it, the first video game ever was space war, written at MIT. Does anyone here know anything about a port of space war for the HP2115? Many years ago I purchased a 2115 from the MIT equipment exchange. Paper lables on the front panel suggest that the machine at one time played space war. I've kept the core unlatered, but the idea of reverse engineering whatever code may (or may not) be stored in core seems impractical. The machine had all its I/O boards removed before I got to it. I'm tempted to simply ignore the original contents of the core at this point, and load something interesting for VCF East, but before I alter it, I'd like to ask if anyone has heard of space war running on old HP mini's? From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Jul 5 19:19:06 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010705174241.0096dd30@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> As I said, the problem is not one of a dirty machine or paper path. I have replaced the toner cartridge (as suggested) with no improvement... --tom At 11:54 PM 7/5/01 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Since it sounds like we have some people who are good at LaserJet questions... >> >> I have a LaserJet IIP, which intermittently has a problem with leaving large >> black smears across the output. Not the kind of smears you get with a dirty >> machine. I believe it may be a thermal problem as it tends to work properly >> when first used, but after a while, it begins to fail. > >Nobody's given me a IIP (LX engine?) to pull to bits yet, so I don't know >it that well at all. Certainly not to the level that I know the CX and SX >engines to... > >That said, have yoy tried a new toner cartridge? A worn wiper blade will >cause this sort of problem. > >Dirty smears are almost always due to toner collecting where it >shouldn't. Clean the complete paper path, run the machine until the fault >occurs and see if you can see where the toner is collecting. Then find >out why. > >-tony > > From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Thu Jul 5 19:23:24 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Micro Cornucopia auction Message-ID: Because of the interest, I have decided to hold a sealed bid auction for the complete set of Micro Cornucopia magazines. Every issue from #1 (July 1981, 16 pages) to #53 (May 1990, 96 pages) is here. The subheading started out "Journal of the Big Board Users", changed with #7 to "The Single Board Systems Journal", and finally changed with #23 to "The Micro Technical Journal". Topics covered included software--BASIC, Pascal, C, Forth, Smalltalk, Prolog, Wordstar, dBase II, CP/M, MS-DOS, and much more--and hardware--memory upgrades, EPROM erasers, a logic analyzer, video circuitry, even a complete Nat Semi 32000 chip set computer with circuit diagrams. The early issues have almost exclusively Big Board, CP/M, and Z80 content. The final issues have almost exclusively MS-DOS PC content. In the middle there is an incredible variety of hard-core technical articles. Almost all the issues are perfect. The early issues I purchased as back issues so they do not even have mailing labels on them. Issue 21, December-January 1985, has "Sample for Microsystems Readers" printed in red on the front; Micro Cornucopia was trying to pick up subscribers from Sol Libes' magazine that folded. That was my first issue and every issue from #21 on has mailing labels on them. Issue 29 is damaged; it appears that this one was on the end of a bundle--the cover is scuffed and there are small tears at the top and bottom from the binding strap. End of auction is Friday 6 July 2001 at 8pm. Send bids to paul@wccnet.org. Highest bidder wins (duh!). Payment is by check or money order and must be received within 30 days (6 August) of auction end. Shipping costs are IN ADDITION to the bid amount. I can ship via US Mail or UPS. The magazines weigh about 24 pounds and would cost about $9 to ship USPS Media Mail without insurance. Shipping is from Monroe, Michigan 48161. No shipping charges if you pick it up, of course. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA paul@wccnet.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 19:18:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <001101c105a9$8bb39aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 5, 1 05:23:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4058 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/63fb82b3/attachment.ksh From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Jul 5 19:35:37 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <009201c105b3$941e8ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Davis" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 3:43 PM Subject: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all citizens vote. Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually all of the eligible voters. It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US elections actually bother to vote. > I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it required > that you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? You must attend a polling place, and have your name crossed off. You are handed ballot papers, initialled by the issuing officer, theoretically, you can stick them straight in the ballot box and walk out. If you do proceed to a booth, don't mark the papers, and place them in the ballot box, that's ok too. This means an informal vote, but since you didn't want to vote anyway.... Basically, the law is so that people will show up to vote. What they do then is up to them, but most people take the attitude that since they are there, they might as well vote. They are talking about requiring people to show id for the next election, instead of just telling them who you are, which is the case at the moment. But you don't get an electoral official looking over your shoulder, though tou can ask for someone to accompany you to the booth to ensure that your vote is correctly filled out if you wish, can be anyone over 18, not necessarily an official. Cheers Geoff in Oz From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 5 19:26:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jul 5, 1 07:19:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 683 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/92340ece/attachment.ksh From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 5 19:51:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <3B45059D.3F0D81E1@tiac.net> Message-ID: I thought the first game was AD on early CDCs and later on IBM S/36s? Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > As I understand it, the first video game ever was space war, written at MIT. > > Does anyone here know anything about a port of space war for the HP2115? > > Many years ago I purchased a 2115 from the MIT equipment exchange. Paper > lables on the front panel suggest that the machine at one time played space > war. > > I've kept the core unlatered, but the idea of reverse engineering whatever > code > may (or may not) be stored in core seems impractical. The machine had all its > > I/O boards removed before I got to it. > > I'm tempted to simply ignore the original contents of the core at this point, > and > load something interesting for VCF East, but before I alter it, I'd like to > ask if > anyone has heard of space war running on old HP mini's? > From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 5 20:53:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4092.587T1500T1735637optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>Similarly, the RAM may be hideously slow, but at least it uses SIMMs. >>Getting hold of ZIPs is a bloody pain in the neck (are there any list >>members out there who happen to have any to spare? =). > I remember a review for the DKB Rapidfire SCSI board a number >of years back. It had 72pin SIMM sockets onboard and one of the >points that the reviewer made was that as slow as the A4000's RAM >was, unbeleivably the Rapidfire's RAM was even slower. The Rapidfire >is a 16bit ZII card. I did use one to add cheap SCSI capability to >my A4000 though and you could mount a drive directly to the board >itself if you lacked additional drive space. If the Rapidfire really is a Zorro-II card, then it's a magnitude slower than the mobo A4k RAM. Our A3000 really went on its knees when we had put an old (old!) 8-UP! ZII DIP memory board in it. The majority of my memory is comprised of 30-pin SIMMs on a Fastlane Z3 SCSI card. It's a really nice SCSI card (I particularly like the fact that it's got a full CEN50 socket on the blanking plate), but even though it's a Z3 card, the RAM only runs at 80% of the mobo speed. >>The A1200 is common, but it is essentially a closed architecture. Unless >>you're adventurous and put it in a tower with a slot card and all that, but >>it still turns out as a mediocre imitation of a real big-box machine. Still, >>given a PCI backplane, it turns out a rather cheap solution compared to a >>similarly equipped Zorro Amiga. > It amazes me how expensive the later Amiga's still are, >especially the newer A1200's and 4000's. Do people still pay those >kind of prices for the 'new' ones? The A1200 isn't particularly expensive IMO, but the big-box 32-bit machines are. See my post a week or two ago about how much faster workstation which retailed for ten times as much now sell at the fraction of the price of an unexpanded Amiga. =) >>run new software, though I'm not familiar with EGA myself. Didn't it deviate >>somewhat from the usual WB look? ISTR screenshots in mags with gadgets which >>seemed to come from a Motif system. > Other than looking better on the higher resolution screen, I >don't recall EGS changing the look of the WB at all. Maybe the >screenshots were using varous WB enhancers such as Magic WB and MUI? These are rather old screenshots from a Spectrum review, but it could still be. >>I didn't know that the Spectrum was a ZIII board, and thought it was very >>similar to the Picasso II in performance. I run a Retina ZIII myself, and >>while it doesn't put up much of a match against newer boards, it is >>competent enough. Certainly better than the PII. > Yeah, it's ZIII. It is autosensing with a jumper to force it >to use ZII if needed for compatibility purposes. It only has 2meg of >VRAM though vice the 4meg on other later boards. I've always heard >good things about the Retina boards, but have never used one. And it can't be expanded either? Hm, sounds a lot like the PII. >>BTW, you do have a CD-ROM, don't you? > Yes, multiple SCSI drives around here. I even have an older >version of AmiCDFS here somewhere. I believe that AmiCDFS is bundled with newer OS versions. BTW, a tip for old workstation users, I just found out that the CD-ROM in my Compaq Prosignia 300 EISA/PCI server has a jumper for setting the block size to 512 bytes. It's just a double-spin CD, but for me, it was free. Now it sits in the PowerUser SCSI box I bought today, and the Prosignia will have to make do with the 44 MB SyQuest which was in the SCSI case. =9 So if you're looking for one of those elusive "bootable" CD drives, look no further than Compaq. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. It's amazing how many useful pieces of equipment are disguised as domestic appliances: the machine for cleaning keyboard keycaps and shell cases does an excellent job of washing clothes, while the tumbling machine for drying them off also works for socks and shirts. The device in the kitchen for baking small spray-painted articles can be used for pizza and muffins. And so on... Pete Turnbull From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 5 20:05:48 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <009201c105b3$941e8ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: Responses inline: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all > citizens vote. > > Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually > all of the eligible voters. > It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US > elections actually bother to vote. I think that technically US citizens are required to vote. It is a civic duty, at least. > > I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it > required > > that you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? > > You must attend a polling place, and have your name crossed off. You > are handed ballot papers, initialled by the issuing officer, > theoretically, you can stick them straight in the ballot box and walk > out. If you do proceed to a booth, > don't mark the papers, and place them in the ballot box, that's ok too. > This means an informal vote, > but since you didn't want to vote anyway.... > Basically, the law is so that people will show up to vote. What they do > then is up to them, but most people take the attitude that since they > are there, they might as well vote. Here in the US, that crowd usually doesn't even bother showing up. I vote regularly, but if there is no one I would like to vote for in a particular race, I will not vote for anyone on that particular race. > They are talking about requiring people to show id for the next > election, instead of just telling them who you are, which is the case at > the moment. > But you don't get an electoral official looking over your shoulder, > though tou can ask for someone to accompany you to the booth to ensure > that your vote is correctly filled out if you wish, can be anyone over > 18, not necessarily an official. I don't know if you can take anyone in with you here, but I have a feeling you can. A lot of people take their kids in. We have to present ID, usually a voter registration card or a drivers license. I usually present the former. Peace... Sridhar > Cheers > > Geoff in Oz > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 20:15:38 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010706011538.80184.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > ...LaserJet-III... paper jam... how to restore... feed capability > > Sure, replace the pickup roller. One of the common faults on the SX engine. Yep. Just did upper and lower feed rollers and transfer pads on my LJIIID. Ran about $30 in parts and a lot of labor/time (I haven't been inside a printer in several years and I had several false starts). > Take off the outer casing (lots of screws)... Nice description about how to get to the upper roller. I wish there were an easy way to get to the lower transfer pad. I just about stripped the printer bare to do it (on the bright side, I did learn what goes where and what has to come off (and go back on!) first). > Remove the E-clips... Commonly called "circlips" on this end of the pond. > and components from the > left hand end (keeping them in order and the right way round) until you > can remvoe the D-shaped pickup roller. Put a new one one and reassemble. I ran into one problem - some of those other components were worn enough that I accidentally put the D-shaped roller 180 degrees around. Yes, it's possible. No, it's not supposed to be possible. There is a small pin that is supposed to fit into one of the hard rollers next to the rubber rollers, but it moved around too much during disassembly and I got it wrong the first time. It caused a jam on pickup because the flat spot on the D wasn't down when the next stage went to grab the paper and it stopped dead. > Last time I checked you could get a new roller from the PrinterWorks > (http://www.printerworks.com/) That's where I got mine. About $8 each. Even though the printer was $15 to me (complete with two paper trays, LocalTalk card, 4Mb memory card and Postscript cart), it was worth it to drop another 200% to get it working. It's slow, but works like a champ now. The only thing I haven't tested is double-sided printing. Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use? I'd rather throw this thing on the network than waste my only print-server port on it. Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 12:33:07 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <20010705153442.7253.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01Jul5.212436edt.119131@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> on 7/5/01 11:34 AM, Ethan Dicks at ethan_dicks@yahoo.com wrote: > I have both an A3000 and an A4000 (each one was in turn my primary Amiga > for years). I personally like the A3000 more, but the internal CD-ROM bay > and the AGA chipset is mighty attractive (but so is SCSI-on-the-motherboard). The AGA advantage is pretty much nulled by a graphics card, unless you were one to run a lot of AGA-only programs. I didn't like the way a drive put in the A4000's 5-1/4" bay went right up against the PSU and often times ended up sticking part way out the front of the machine. The internal case layout of the A3000 is tight, but very well thought out. The A4000's not nearly as well. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 21:05:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <4092.587T1500T1735637optimus@canit.se> References: <4092.587T1500T1735637optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >The majority of my memory is comprised of 30-pin SIMMs on a Fastlane Z3 SCSI >card. It's a really nice SCSI card (I particularly like the fact that it's got >a full CEN50 socket on the blanking plate), but even though it's a Z3 card, >the RAM only runs at 80% of the mobo speed. For a while, I thought about getting one of the DKB 3128 ZIII memory boards, but never got around to it. I did try to use the Rapidfire for RAM once, but it slowed things down so much I didn't leave it like that. The thing I always hated about expanding the ZIPs in an A3000 wasn't getting the chips but inserting them into the sockets. The way the 3000's ZIP banks were staggered made for a difficult time aligning the pins. >And it can't be expanded either? Hm, sounds a lot like the PII. The base Spectrum came with just 1meg while the higher end one came with 2. I believe it was simple enough to add the 2nd meg to the base model though. At the time, I had a 14" NEC monitor attached to it and I liked keeping the virtual screen set for auto-scrolling with the screen size set to 1280 x 960 with the actual viewable at a single time as 640 x 480. BTW, is WB still limited to 256 colors? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Jul 5 21:09:23 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <20010706011538.80184.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107060209.VAA05965@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? -Lawrence LeMay > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use? I'd rather > throw this thing on the network than waste my only print-server port > on it. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 21:20:47 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <200107060209.VAA05965@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010706022047.88038.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use How could I tell? The LJIII cards are the size of my hand with a centered set of edge card fingers on on short end. They are 1/2 the size of LJ4 cards. Is there a picture on the web I could reference? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 21:22:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <000f01c105c2$8543ec60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Now that the GOV is getting into everyone's lives sufficiently to ensure that everybody can, if they wish, and if they have kids in school, have a computer, internet access, etc, (hasn't been passed yet, or if it has, I missed it) with GOV subsidy, they could, and perhaps should, require that everyone vote. In fact, they could replace themselves with a direct, rather than representative, democracy. That way, all the legislature would have to do is put forth the information required to make the decision, and then discontinue your TV service until you passed a test (more than they now have to do) on the key points of each issue. That way people who pay for PORK would have to vote for it, i.e. know that they're paying for someone's gravy train. Folks who want to vote would do so, and folks who didn't want to familiarize themselves with the details of each issue couldn't, but until they passed the test, they couldn't watch the hockey game or soap opera either. You'd have to spend ten minutes a week, I'd guess, but you wouldn't have to stand in line or go out in the rain. There'd be a lot more knowledge behind the votes than there presently is, that's for sure. Moreover, the various counties wouldn't have to buy expensive voting machines. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 7:05 PM Subject: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > Responses inline: > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all > > citizens vote. > > > > Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually > > all of the eligible voters. > > It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US > > elections actually bother to vote. > > I think that technically US citizens are required to vote. It is a civic > duty, at least. > > > > I do have a question, you have to show up to the polling place, is it > > required > > > that you ACTUALLY vote for anyone on the ballot? > > > > You must attend a polling place, and have your name crossed off. You > > are handed ballot papers, initialled by the issuing officer, > > theoretically, you can stick them straight in the ballot box and walk > > out. If you do proceed to a booth, > > don't mark the papers, and place them in the ballot box, that's ok too. > > This means an informal vote, > > but since you didn't want to vote anyway.... > > Basically, the law is so that people will show up to vote. What they do > > then is up to them, but most people take the attitude that since they > > are there, they might as well vote. > > Here in the US, that crowd usually doesn't even bother showing up. I vote > regularly, but if there is no one I would like to vote for in a particular > race, I will not vote for anyone on that particular race. > > > They are talking about requiring people to show id for the next > > election, instead of just telling them who you are, which is the case at > > the moment. > > But you don't get an electoral official looking over your shoulder, > > though tou can ask for someone to accompany you to the booth to ensure > > that your vote is correctly filled out if you wish, can be anyone over > > 18, not necessarily an official. > > I don't know if you can take anyone in with you here, but I have a feeling > you can. A lot of people take their kids in. We have to present ID, > usually a voter registration card or a drivers license. I usually present > the former. > > Peace... Sridhar > > > Cheers > > > > Geoff in Oz > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 5 21:26:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: <200107060209.VAA05965@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <002b01c105c3$13584c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got a JetLan board that I'd use if I were smart enough. I've had this thing 6-7 years now, but, though the OS knows about it, I can't get it woring through either Windows or Netware. It's not a big deal, but I'd like to use the LAN for it. Unfortunately, though it appears as an icon under PRINTERS in Windows, and even though the JetLan software recognizes it, I don't manage to get Netware to recognize it as a print server, so I can't route through the file server to it. Does anybody know how to make this functional? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use? I'd rather > > throw this thing on the network than waste my only print-server port > > on it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -ethan > > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 21:28:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <01Jul5.212436edt.119131@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20010706022822.86774.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > on 7/5/01 11:34 AM, Ethan Dicks at ethan_dicks@yahoo.com wrote: > > I have both an A3000 and an A4000 (each one was in turn my primary Amiga > > for years). I personally like the A3000 more, but the internal CD-ROM bay > > and the AGA chipset is mighty attractive (but so is > SCSI-on-the-motherboard). > > The AGA advantage is pretty much nulled by a graphics card, Never did get a graphics card. About the only upgrades I ever got were network cards, a serial card (for $20 in a clearance), an A-Max II+ card (which got lots of use driving a LaserJet-4/ML with A-Max) and I did upgrade the CPU in my A4000 (first by replacing the 68EC030 with a *real* 68030 - yes, by soldering; second by replacing the original CPU card with a C= '040 card). Oh... that's right... I did buy lots of stuff for my A1000 (Sprit InBoard, StarBoard w/StarDrive, ROM switcher, Rejuvinator, WEDGE (8-bit ISA MFM card adapter)...) By the time the A3000 came out, mostly I bought RAM and bigger hard disks. > ...I didn't like the way a drive put in the A4000's 5-1/4" bay went right up > against the PSU and often times ended up sticking part way out the front of > the machine. True. I think I ended up using a right-angle connector for power to get that last little bit of space back so my CD-ROM drive didn't stick out. > The internal case > layout of the A3000 is tight, but very well thought out. The A4000's not > nearly as well. You know why that is? C= Engineering had it all laid-out and finished, then some suit (the LBF?) told them to re-do it to use up the orphaned PC cases they had stacks and stacks of. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Jul 5 21:38:09 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller References: <3B44EA46.3338CA@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3B452491.AD26ACF7@arrl.net> Michael Davidson wrote: > > While searching through my collection of old Qbus cards I just > discovered that I have a DSD 4140, which appears to be an RX02 > compatible interface to Shugart SA800 or SA850 drives. > > The only documentation that I have is a small reference card > which has the jumper configuration and a summary of the commands > (from which it appears that the controller also supports > formatting drives with a write sector command followed by a > couple of magic values written to the data register). > > Does anyone have any more information / documentation for this > controller? > > Since I don't have any 8" Shugart interface drives available > I'm probably going to have to hook this thing up to a 5.25" > or a 3.5" drive in order to try it out. I seem to recall that > constructing a suitable 50 way to 34 way cable adaptor is > relatively simple, but again I would appreciate references or > more information from anyone who has done this kind of thing > recently. > > Michael Don't know if this will help, but I've got the user guide for the DSD4120. This uses 5-1/4 fdd's for rx01/rx02 emulation. Send me your address if you want this. - nick o From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jul 5 21:51:35 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <20010706022822.86774.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 5, 1 07:28:22 pm" Message-ID: <200107060251.TAA07472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Since we're talking Amiga upgrades, a knowledgeable Amiga guru I spoke to told me that the GVP A530 I have attached to my A500 only takes those funky 64-pin SIMMs. Are these the same SIMMs the Mac IIfx required? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How do you explain school to a higher intelligence? -- Elliott in "E.T." --- From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jul 5 22:11:50 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Gene Ehrich wrote: > I have a set of DOS 3.30 disks which comprise the following: > 1. startup disk, > 2. operating disk > 3. missing > 4. help disk. > Can anybody tell me what should be on the missing disk 3 and what will > happen if I try to install it? It depends on whether it is PC-DOS or MS-DOS, and if MS-DOS, which company's release. So long as one of the disks has COMMAND.COM and the [invisible] IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS (or IBMBIO.COM and IBMDOS.COM) then you can install it without using MICROS~1's INSTALL or SETUP. What you are missing would presumably be some of the programs that come with DOS. Some are easier to do without than others. If it is MS-DOS (v PC-DOS), then IO.SYS and MODE.COM may be customized for a particular manufacturer's machines (Internal/external video, possibly some special disk formats, etc.) 3.30 has full support for 1.4M floppies (although the BIOS might not), and will support hard drives up to 32M. 3.31 (not available in PC-DOS) supports drives above 32M (although there could be some other limitations, such as 500M or 8G) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jul 5 22:17:58 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DOD 3.30 Question In-Reply-To: <000b01c1058d$c3baa040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The missing diskette, while this is only a guess, probably had utilities, e.g. > basic, basica, etc. That was before scandisk, smartdrv, etc. If it is PC-DOS, then it will have BASIC.COM and BASICA.COM which add disk I/O and a few extra features to the 32K BASIC that is in ROM in IBM's machines. If it is MS-DOS, then it will have GWBASIC. [GW stands for GEE WHIZ!] GWBASIC is a RAM based version of BASICA, and does NOT require the 32K ROM BASIC. Compaq and a few others renamed their GWBASIC into BASICA. They did that so that batch files, etc. that were written for the PC would work with Compaq. At least that is what Compaq told me was the reason when they gave me a free machine in 1983. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 23:28:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <002b01c105c3$13584c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010706042802.97558.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > I've got a JetLan board that I'd use if I were smart enough. I've had this > thing 6-7 years now, but, though the OS knows about it, I can't get it woring > through either Windows or Netware. I've got one of these, too, but I thought I would have to have a Netware Server on the network to feed it. I got mine in a grab bag at Dayton a few years ago. It's 10Base2, and the large chips on it are an 80C188 (CPU), DP83902V (Ethernet), an ASP- branded gate array ("GBIM ASB4101") and an EPROM ("JETLAN 00065-000-2.33") I'm looking for a card with better OS support, but if I could get this one working, I'd be satisfied with it. If I have to run print jobs through a server, the only thing I have that could fit the bill is a SPARC-LX running Solaris 7. If I have to have a dedicated server, I might as well build a Linux box and hang the printer off the parallel port. I have 0 interest in getting into Netware. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 6 00:01:58 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20010705161906.019cf460@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010705220137.032df880@mail.zipcon.net> I use Rubber Renew for the rollers. At 06:15 PM 7/5/01 -0500, you wrote: >I thought I was the only one that used Marvel Mystery Oil (made for top end >of engines) for the rollers on printers!. Also he can slightly bend up the >tang that lifts the metal flp in the tray so it lifts properly - but too >much will make it prevent the tray from going in or make it break at the >bend. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jul 6 01:16:45 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Space War? References: Message-ID: <008301c105e3$51fc7860$d226b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > I thought the first game was AD on early CDCs and later on IBM S/36s? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > As I understand it, the first video game ever was space war, written at MIT. > > > > Does anyone here know anything about a port of space war for the HP2115? > > According to an unverified source: SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and jumping through hyperspace. This game was first implemented on the PDP-1 at MIT in 1960--61. SPACEWAR aficionados formed the core of the early hacker culture at MIT. Nine years later, a descendant of the game motivated Ken Thompson to build, in his spare time on a scavenged PDP-7, the operating system that became {{UNIX}}. Less than nine years after that, SPACEWAR was commercialized as one of the first video games; descendants are still {feep}ing in video arcades everywhere. From mac at Wireless.Com Thu Jul 5 21:17:59 2001 From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <008301c105e3$51fc7860$d226b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: A question is: was SpaceWar on the PDP-1 the -first- video game? Clearly there had been CRT output devices on computers before the PDP-1, but did anybody write any games for them? -Mike On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by > E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships > duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and > jumping through hyperspace. This game was first implemented on the > PDP-1 at MIT in 1960--61. SPACEWAR aficionados formed the core of > the early hacker culture at MIT. Nine years later, a descendant > of the game motivated Ken Thompson to build, in his spare time on a > scavenged PDP-7, the operating system that became {{UNIX}}. Less > than nine years after that, SPACEWAR was commercialized as one of > the first video games; descendants are still {feep}ing in video > arcades everywhere. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 00:14:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <000701c1058d$1cff3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B446328.FE7C8FD5@bellsouth.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010705151758.00ad25d0@pop-server> Message-ID: >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the check I wrote for >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one is making >a bit >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the >tray's >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there is once in a >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. It's toothless, >though and doesn't shred the paper. Replace the pickup roller or carefully clean it using a rubber restoritive (I bought mine at Fry's, any "real" electronic supply have it or be able to order a bottle for about $7 to $10). BTW I have in my hoard quite a bit of printer replacement parts, but not much knowledge, so if you know a part number and/or have a picture email me and I can look. Places like Printerworks aren't a bad choice either. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 6 01:33:22 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question" (Jul 5, 19:20) References: <20010706022047.88038.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10107060733.ZM28150@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 5, 19:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use > > How could I tell? The LJIII cards are the size of my hand with a centered > set of edge card fingers on on short end. They are 1/2 the size of LJ4 > cards. I thought the cards were the same, but the LJ4 has an extra blanking plate? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Jul 6 02:27:30 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller In-Reply-To: <3B44EA46.3338CA@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200107060727.JAA24708@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 5 Jul, Michael Davidson wrote: > I seem to recall that > constructing a suitable 50 way to 34 way cable adaptor is > relatively simple, but again I would appreciate references or > more information from anyone who has done this kind of thing > recently. I have two different RXV21 emulating QBus to Shugart SA8?? adaptors. I soldered a cable according to the folowing URLs and it works with 5,25" floppies. http://nemesis.lonestar.org/computers/tandy/hardware/model16_6000/floppyfix.html http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/8-525.html -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 6 03:05:11 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <10107060733.ZM28150@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20010706022047.88038.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706010155.02f87080@mail.zipcon.net> The lasterjet4 and newer use MIO cards, the LAsterjet 3 and 2 use XIO cards and the 2p / 3p use a custom backplate. Xio cards are between 2 and 3 inches wide and about 4 or 5 inches long. Mio cards are roughly 4x5 ish At 06:33 AM 7/6/01 +0000, you wrote: >On Jul 5, 19:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? > > > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use > > > > How could I tell? The LJIII cards are the size of my hand with a >centered > > set of edge card fingers on on short end. They are 1/2 the size of LJ4 > > cards. > >I thought the cards were the same, but the LJ4 has an extra blanking plate? > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Thu Jul 5 12:49:24 2001 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: RD53 formatter Message-ID: <20010706081047.F252736C00@pandora.worldonline.nl> Doug, Run ZRQCH0 under XXDP(+?) to format the RD's. If your 11/83 has a serial line at 176500/300 you can even load XXDP from a PC emulating a TU58. I routinely do this. Wim ---------- > From: Doug Carman > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RD53 formatter > Date: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:52 PM > > I have a PDP-11/83 with an RQDX3 disk controller and a pair of RD53 > drives from a MicroVAX II. Since all I can get from both drives are I/O > errors, I am left to assume that they were once hooked to an RQDX2 > controller and now need to be re-low-level formatted to work with the > RQDX3. Does anyone know what is required to do this on an 11/83? Was > there an XXDP diagnostic program that did this? > > Thanks. > > -- > Doug Carman > pdp11@bellsouth.net > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 6 04:38:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:21 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107060251.TAA07472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200107060251.TAA07472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >Since we're talking Amiga upgrades, a knowledgeable Amiga guru I spoke to >told me that the GVP A530 I have attached to my A500 only takes those >funky 64-pin SIMMs. Are these the same SIMMs the Mac IIfx required? I'm sure Iggy or Gareth will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the A530 uses the proprietary GVP SIMMs that were only used in GVP items. Thankfully my GVP HD+ on my A500 uses regular 30pin SIMMs. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Wolfgang.Eichberger at bps.at Fri Jul 6 05:34:58 2001 From: Wolfgang.Eichberger at bps.at (Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) Message-ID: Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. I think HPUX 5.? is still running... Thanx, Wolfgang Eichberger O?. Boden und Baustoffpr?fstelle GmbH c/o Eichberger Wolfgang K?rntnerstra?e 12 4021 Linz Tel.: 0732/7720-2655 Fax.: 0732/7720-2918 Homepage: www.bps.at From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 6 07:09:04 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Even on some parts, HP Partsdirect isn't bad as their price includes standard shipping, within the US. MCM electronics carries all sorts of rubber rejuvenators but the pickup roller on the II/III series is a foamy kind of rubber and sometimes react strangely to the rubber treatments. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:15 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question -> -> -> >I know this one's over 10 years old, because I just saw the -> check I wrote for -> >one of my LaserJet-III types. I've got three of these, and one -> is making -> >a bit -> >of trouble in that the paper doesn't feed down to the point at which the -> >tray's -> >empty. However, it does claim there's a paper jam, which there -> is once in a -> >while, when it's folded a sheet in half and tried to eat it. -> It's toothless, -> >though and doesn't shred the paper. -> -> Replace the pickup roller or carefully clean it using a rubber -> restoritive -> (I bought mine at Fry's, any "real" electronic supply have it or -> be able to -> order a bottle for about $7 to $10). -> -> BTW I have in my hoard quite a bit of printer replacement parts, but not -> much knowledge, so if you know a part number and/or have a -> picture email me -> and I can look. Places like Printerworks aren't a bad choice either. -> -> From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 6 07:09:02 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706010155.02f87080@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: And the newer machine than the MIO's use EIO - such as the 4000 series and others. I have an unused II/III series XIO in a box around here, maybe I'll dig it out and post the HP type and part number. The customs for the P types are almost impossible to locate anymore since I think they weren't big sellers and cost too much so HP cut production on them. Of course ANY parallel type printer can use a generic print server, attached to the printer port, OR use an old 386 or 486 machine w/ network card as a print server to take the load off the other machines. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Reed -> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 3:05 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question -> -> -> The lasterjet4 and newer use MIO cards, the LAsterjet 3 and 2 -> use XIO cards -> and the 2p / 3p use a custom backplate. -> -> Xio cards are between 2 and 3 inches wide and about 4 or 5 inches long. -> -> Mio cards are roughly 4x5 ish -> -> At 06:33 AM 7/6/01 +0000, you wrote: -> >On Jul 5, 19:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: -> > > -> > > --- Lawrence LeMay wrote: -> > > > I don't suppose it uses a MIO card? -> > > > -> > > > -Lawrence LeMay -> > > > -> > > > > Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use -> > > -> > > How could I tell? The LJIII cards are the size of my hand with a -> >centered -> > > set of edge card fingers on on short end. They are 1/2 the -> size of LJ4 -> > > cards. -> > -> >I thought the cards were the same, but the LJ4 has an extra -> blanking plate? -> > -> >-- -> >Pete Peter Turnbull -> > Network Manager -> > University of York -> From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 6 08:00:29 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My point was that AD was a computer game, and a lot of people played it on teletypes. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Mike Cheponis wrote: > A question is: was SpaceWar on the PDP-1 the -first- video game? Clearly > there had been CRT output devices on computers before the PDP-1, but did > anybody write any games for them? > > -Mike > > > On Thu, 5 Jul 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by > > E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships > > duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and > > jumping through hyperspace. This game was first implemented on the > > PDP-1 at MIT in 1960--61. SPACEWAR aficionados formed the core of > > the early hacker culture at MIT. Nine years later, a descendant > > of the game motivated Ken Thompson to build, in his spare time on a > > scavenged PDP-7, the operating system that became {{UNIX}}. Less > > than nine years after that, SPACEWAR was commercialized as one of > > the first video games; descendants are still {feep}ing in video > > arcades everywhere. > From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Fri Jul 6 08:02:41 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (gareth.knight@btinternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga question Message-ID: <3b45b6f1.3483.0@btinternet.com> Jeff wrote: Correct. The accelerator used GVP 64 pin SIMMS. It can use two 1 Meg SIMM32's, or two 4 Meg SIMM32's. However, it is not possible to mix different sized SIMMs. Gareth Knight From owad at applefritter.com Fri Jul 6 08:06:15 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010706130615.16339@mail.earthlink.net> > SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by > E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships > duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and > jumping through hyperspace. This game was first implemented on the > PDP-1 at MIT in 1960--61. SPACEWAR aficionados formed the core of > the early hacker culture at MIT. Nine years later, a descendant > of the game motivated Ken Thompson to build, in his spare time on a > scavenged PDP-7, the operating system that became {{UNIX}}. Less > than nine years after that, SPACEWAR was commercialized as one of > the first video games; descendants are still {feep}ing in video > arcades everywhere. Are there any ports of SPACEWAR to the Mac or PC that are completely true to the original? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jul 6 08:06:30 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <816.587T1150T174471optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 6 Jul 2001 0:17:23 +0100 Iggy Drougge wrote: > Davison, Lee skrev: > >Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos > > Does anyone here have an Atmos? Yes! > It's really an adorable design on the outside, > with that black and red colour scheme. Indeed. I have one with a natty little cloth dust cover, so it's in good condition. I have some manuals and software, too. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Fri Jul 6 08:12:35 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (gareth.knight@btinternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga question Message-ID: <3b45b943.45b2.0@btinternet.com> Ethan wrote: That is a slight exageration. C= Engineering had some prototype motherboard designs but it wasn't near to a finished layout. The A4000 case was originally designed for one of the A1000+ configurations. Commodore management decided to salvage part of this development by using the case in their AGA 'big box' Amiga. Kind Regards, Gareth Knight From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 06:32:44 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512B5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > I thought the first game was AD on early CDCs and later on IBM S/36s? > Nope... in fact, Adventure was a relative late-comer, as Star Trek crept out of the DEC facility in Maynard, MA, and spread across the academic computing landscape in 1967. Adventure was written in 1970. -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 6 08:38:41 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? In-Reply-To: <001e01c105a9$01dc20e0$0101010a@pentium2> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706080836.01ee3d70@pc> At 12:19 AM 7/6/01 +0100, Gareth Knight wrote: >I'm not sure about writing directly to a hardfile. I find it more useful to >copy the hard disk to a Windows directory and have the emulator use this as >a virtual hard disk. It is easier to manipulate file formats using the two >operating systems. It looks like the Amiga Forever (commercial $30) package includes a tool called "Amiga Explorer" to mount an Amiga's drive over the network to the emulator, which would allow you to copy the remote hard drive partition to a new emulated hardfile, because it's a file system. Amiga Explorer is a Windows namespace extension, placing your networked Amiga on the same level of as "My Computer", which would allow you to copy to a hardfile while using the emulator: http://www.softhut.com/cloanto/aexplorer_screen1.html I would guess that what I created with 'packdev' is an exact copy of the partition's blocks, but minus the other partition info that's no doubt included in the hardfile. I'd feel like I'd truly archived my Amiga if I had a hardfile, written from the Amiga and stored as a single file across the network. I don't like the feel of these networked filesystems, mapping between Windows and Amiga. I know deep in my heart some bits will be lost, be they file comments, improperly mapped and remapped characters, file attribute bits, etc. - John From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jul 6 08:51:28 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jul 6, 1 05:38:30 am" Message-ID: <200107061351.GAA10816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I'm sure Iggy or Gareth will correct me if I'm wrong, but I > believe the A530 uses the proprietary GVP SIMMs that were only used > in GVP items. Thankfully my GVP HD+ on my A500 uses regular 30pin > SIMMs. I'm just wondering if the pinout is the same, since I do know they're 64 pin. I can get my hands on IIfx memory "fairly cheaply" (this is a relative term). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Please dispose of this message in the usual manner. -- Mission: Impossible - From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 6 08:47:43 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? In-Reply-To: <1573.587T1650T44927optimus@canit.se> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010705124701.01e59730@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706081234.01e69ef0@pc> At 12:04 AM 7/6/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >I recall reading a document about how someone transferred his HD to a HDF >file, and I actually believe that he used Transdisk. According to the HDF file format docs, an HDF differs from an ADF (floppy) file in that it has "a bootblock, a rootblock, a [block] bitmap and perhaps dircache blocks." >OTOH you could try >connecting the drives directly to the PC and do a "dd" or similar. I saw a tool to do that, but it warned that sometimes the drive becomes unreadable. It doesn't sound like a read-only tool. I don't understand why they'd write to the disk if I didn't ask it to. >Another idea would be to start UAE, install AmiTCP, or at least amiganetfs, >and transfer the disk contents that way. I think I'd lose information. I don't trust the mapping of filename characters, for example. I doubt Amiga file comments would be preserved via NFS, too. As I said, I've already got an NFS link to my PC. I can easily "copy dh10:#? NTp: all" and send the files as files to my PC, but I don't want to spend hours figuring out which files were lost. Having an HDF file on my PC would be delightful. I installed a Windows program called ADF View. It's a Windows Explorer extension for ADF and HDF files, meaning now those two file extensions have their own icon linked to this program, and when you click on an HDF file, it opens a new Explorer window and lets you browse the HDF file as if it were part of the Windows file system. Very handy! - John From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jul 6 08:59:47 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller References: <3B44EA46.3338CA@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <007e01c10623$ead78760$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I have the manual for this board. I seem to recall that it's one of the old style manuals that give you theory of operation and a lot of detailed info. I also have two of the boards, and two 8" half height floppy drives. I'm not greatly attached to any of this. I've just been letting it ripen in the attic until someone came along that was interested. There was some discussion about these boards, and how they accomplish boot without a ROM, a month or two ago. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Davidson" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:29 PM Subject: DSD 4140 Qbus floppy controller > While searching through my collection of old Qbus cards I just > discovered that I have a DSD 4140, which appears to be an RX02 > compatible interface to Shugart SA800 or SA850 drives. > > The only documentation that I have is a small reference card > which has the jumper configuration and a summary of the commands > (from which it appears that the controller also supports > formatting drives with a write sector command followed by a > couple of magic values written to the data register). > > Does anyone have any more information / documentation for this > controller? > > Since I don't have any 8" Shugart interface drives available > I'm probably going to have to hook this thing up to a 5.25" > or a 3.5" drive in order to try it out. I seem to recall that > constructing a suitable 50 way to 34 way cable adaptor is > relatively simple, but again I would appreciate references or > more information from anyone who has done this kind of thing > recently. > > Michael > From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jul 6 09:05:46 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010706090546.009ba210@ubanproductions.com> Yes, the smears seem to be independent of what I print. The image is there, but covered in places by non-uniform "smears" of black. Yes, they appear on the test page (there is only one) as well. Also, the smears are fused to the paper... --tom >OK, can you describe these smears a bit more? Are the independant of what >you're trying to print (text .vs. graphics, for example). Do they occur >on the formatter test page (the one where it prints out the fonts, etc). >Do they occur on the engine test page (if you can produce one) -- the one >with vertical lines only on it? > >I'm wondering if the engine is actually alright, and the problem is >actually due to memory errors on the formatter board (or the logic that >transfers the bitmap from the memory to the laser). > >-tony > > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jul 6 09:08:23 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <008301c105e3$51fc7860$d226b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010706090823.009b62b0@ubanproductions.com> I think this site was referenced before on this group: http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/ This seems to be about as close as you can get to the original PDP1 version of the game, without a PDP1 to play it on... --tom From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jul 6 09:18:43 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! References: <200106300410.f5U4Anb13819@wlv.to.gd-es.com> Message-ID: <008601c10626$92205180$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I got the driver to come up on a second controller in E11. Evidently the PRO350 RA driver would only work as a root drive, which is attached via some other mechanism that I am not familiar with. What I did to get it to autoconfig was create an "raprobe" routine that simply returned the status code that says "it's OK and you don't need to look for an interrupt". Crude, but the target machine won't work without the controller present. Now I need to work on the boot sector. The problem is that rauboot.s in the distribution is corrupt, in both the tree and the tar version. See file http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9-pro350/ mdec/rauboot.s, the line that begins "NDIRIN = 4." ends in garbage, and there is a chunk of code missing. One of the doc files, I think boot.doc, has the same problem. It seems that the disk from which the 2.9BSD-PRO patch distribution was prepared was slightly scrambled. There is a chunk of C code right in the middle of the doc in place of some important info. I've been able to reconstruct most of rauboot.s by comparing with other boot programs, except I need the snippet of code for initializing the MSCP controller. I can probably figure this out from the 2.11 driver, but I'd much rather not have to. The 2.11 driver is very different. Does anyone know where I can get the original file? -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven M. Schultz" To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD > Hi -- > > I'd normally be posting from my '2bsd.com' account but the circuit > failed today and the telco is due out tomorrow (Saturday) morning. > > > From: "Jonathan Engdahl" > > I took the MSCP disk driver (the ra driver) from the PRO-350 > > version of 2.9BSD on the PUPS archive, and added it to the > > Ah, I didn't know that someone had created a MSCP driver for 2.9 > > > I have figured out that the autoconfig will not work with this > > driver. It reports "No autoconfig routines". Evidently, probe is > > not implemented in either the 2.9 or 2.11 version of the MSCP driver. > > > I don't know about 2.9 but I do know just a little bit about 2.11 > and the MSCP (and TMSCP) drivers 'probe' and "autoconfig" just fine. > > In fact in 2.11 floating vectors are allocated descending from 01000 > and programmed into the adaptor for secondary controllers (the > primary/first/boot controller always gets 0154). > > > So, how to I get UNIX to "attach" the ra driver? > > When you updated the kernel did you also update the 'autoconfig' > process? In 2.11 there is /sys/autoconfig and whenever a new > device driver is added to the kernel it is also necessary to > update the autoconfig code with a 'XXauto.c" file and an entry > in a couple tables. > > As I recall on 2.9 the autoconf stuff was intermingled with the > regular driver sources which made for a bit of a mess. When 2.11 > came around the chance was taken to clean things up. > > Programmable vector devices (such as MSCP) are a VERY awkward thing > for 'autoconfig' to deal with. Prior to 2.11 the vectors were > more or less hardcoded in 'l.s' (or was it scb.s or locore.s - gads > my memory is slipping) and the driver. 'autoconfig' was mostly a > double check that a device was really present. 2.11 has the kernel > hooks for 'autoconfig' to request a dynamically allocated vector > which can be assigned to a device - bit of a hack but fairly > elegantly done. > > > This is the first time I've tried doing a UNIX sysgen, so extra > > explanations might be required. The only documentation I have is > > what I downloaded along with the distribution. > > Look in /sys/pdpuba and see if you can find the '*auto.c' files - > follow their lead and craft something for 'autoconfig'. The > simplest case is to just "check that something exists" at the > CSR and return 'true' - don't try to force an interrupt, etc. > > Perhaps some other folks who have run 2.9 more recently (or who > have better memory than I do ;)) can jump in here. > > Steven Schultz > sms@moe.2bsd.com (when the circuit gets fixed ;)) > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 09:25:31 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question References: <20010706042802.97558.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c10627$83327da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's not at all clear to me how, exactly, the JetLan (not an HP Jet-Direct) board is intended to be used. The software install makes it appear to Windows as a network printer, yet it doesn't appear to be able to print to it. The test software I downloaded back when I got the board (about 6 years ago or so) was able to make the printer print a test, so that appears to be functional. Nevertheless, without a print queue on the Netware server, it doesn't seem to work, yet it doesn't seem to allow the setup of a print queue that uses it either. Clearly there's some key thing I don't know about this device. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I've got a JetLan board that I'd use if I were smart enough. I've had this > > thing 6-7 years now, but, though the OS knows about it, I can't get it woring > > through either Windows or Netware. > > I've got one of these, too, but I thought I would have to have a Netware > Server on the network to feed it. > > I got mine in a grab bag at Dayton a few years ago. It's 10Base2, and > the large chips on it are an 80C188 (CPU), DP83902V (Ethernet), an ASP- > branded gate array ("GBIM ASB4101") and an EPROM ("JETLAN 00065-000-2.33") > > I'm looking for a card with better OS support, but if I could get this > one working, I'd be satisfied with it. > > If I have to run print jobs through a server, the only thing I have that could > fit the bill is a SPARC-LX running Solaris 7. If I have to have a dedicated > server, I might as well build a Linux box and hang the printer off the > parallel port. I have 0 interest in getting into Netware. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 09:25:10 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <009201c105b3$941e8ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706101417.00ab2960@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:05 AM 7/6/01 +0930, you wrote: > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all >citizens vote. > >Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually >all of the eligible voters. >It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US >elections actually bother to vote. FWIW in the last election, some precients here in Florida had more than a 97% turnout. My person opinion, if someone is too lazy to register and/or vote I don't want them voting anyway. In the last election, the democrats realized that they were in trouble here in Florida and they issued a last minute plea for more "mininories" to get out and vote at the last minute. That's what lead to a lot of the voter confusion and un-counted votes. Many of those last minute voters had never registered and most of them didn't even know that they had to go to a voting place IN THEIR OWN DISTRICT. They simply went to the first voting palce that they found and DEMANDED to vote. Of course, they were turned away and told that they had to vote in their own district but since they hadn't bothered to even find out were that was they ran out of time before they could vote. Joe From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 08:07:43 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <009201c105b3$941e8ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: >> I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all >citizens vote. > >Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually >all of the eligible voters. >It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US >elections actually bother to vote. SIGH Here in Orange, California we just had a recall election for 3 members of the school board. Nasty campaign, especially so on the recall side, no others issues on the ballot, and just two weeks after another special election so turnout was less than 20% and all three members were recalled with about 51% vs 49%. What we have is an extremely agressive and politically active teachers union, which a few years back seized control of the board once before and voted teachers and all family members fully paid lifetime healthcare benefits. This was pure political gamesmanship. In the general election in November I am fairly sure at least 2 of these new union stooges will be tossed out, the third enherits a longer term. My personal anger is from two points, I was a lazy ass and didn't vote, and those who voted were easily swayed by a batch of negative mailings, including letters signed by every students actual teachers sent to parents. Politics, yuck. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 08:19:38 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <20010706011538.80184.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >to drop another 200% to get it working. It's slow, but works like a >champ now. The only thing I haven't tested is double-sided printing. > >Does anyone out there have a 10BaseT card they can't use? I'd rather >throw this thing on the network than waste my only print-server port >on it. Once you do a basic service like that on one of these old workhorses, they last for years and many many pages. The only real downside is that they are big and heavy, not so much slow as long as they have plenty of memory. As I mentioned before, I have a LOT of parts, but don't know that much about which goes to what, but I am "pretty" sure I have some JetDirect 10bt cards, plus I am 100% sure I have memory expansion boards. Email me directly if you want me to look. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 08:10:00 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jul 5, 1 07:19:06 pm Message-ID: >> >> As I said, the problem is not one of a dirty machine or paper path. I have >> replaced the toner cartridge (as suggested) with no improvement... > >OK, can you describe these smears a bit more? Are the independant of what One thing I have noticed is that sometimes pages printed from my browser may have what appears to be smears, and turns out to be some poorly rendered bit of page background. From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jul 6 09:40:21 2001 From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! References: <200106300410.f5U4Anb13819@wlv.to.gd-es.com> <008601c10626$92205180$ac4099a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Message-ID: <3B45CDD5.9BCA95C4@tampabay.rr.com> Hi Jonathan, I believe I contributed this on behalf of Rick. I've checked my own archives of this data and still have the original *.tar.gz file I bundled back in 1992 of this tree. It is 63Kb in this form. I would be happy to uuencode/attach it and mail it to you if you wish. Yes, I just took a look at the PUPS archive and indeed this file has been damaged. I'm happy to see the copy I have elsewhere is still okay. Warren, how shall I pass you this tar bundle for a refresh on the PUPS archive for this? Cheers, -- Ken Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > I got the driver to come up on a second controller in E11. > Evidently the PRO350 RA driver would only work as a root drive, > which is attached via some other mechanism that I am not > familiar with. What I did to get it to autoconfig was create an > "raprobe" routine that simply returned the status code that says > "it's OK and you don't need to look for an interrupt". Crude, > but the target machine won't work without the controller > present. > > Now I need to work on the boot sector. The problem is that > rauboot.s in the distribution is corrupt, in both the tree and > the tar version. See file > http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9-pro350/ > mdec/rauboot.s, the line that begins "NDIRIN = 4." ends in > garbage, and there is a chunk of code missing. > > One of the doc files, I think boot.doc, has the same problem. It > seems that the disk from which the 2.9BSD-PRO patch distribution > was prepared was slightly scrambled. There is a chunk of C code > right in the middle of the doc in place of some important info. > > I've been able to reconstruct most of rauboot.s by comparing > with other boot programs, except I need the snippet of code for > initializing the MSCP controller. I can probably figure this out > from the 2.11 driver, but I'd much rather not have to. The 2.11 > driver is very different. > > Does anyone know where I can get the original file? > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation > Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road > Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA > Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 6 09:44:35 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ebay: Heathkit IT-21 Tube Checker Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1614357896 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/b26ae6b7/attachment.html From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:50:17 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <000701c1062a$f99e78b0$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:50:28 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <001501c1062b$94390610$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:54:37 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <001601c1062b$9bc93620$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi, sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also has a floppy controller for scale) 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:54:42 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <001901c1062b$a2b5ac20$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi, sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also has a floppy controller for scale) 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:54:54 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <001e01c1062b$a9748270$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi, sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also has a floppy controller for scale) 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:55:02 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: <002501c1062b$b0736f00$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Hi, sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also has a floppy controller for scale) 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Thanks! - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 09:55:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706105029.00a0eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:35 PM 7/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >Joe writes > > > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the > >52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) > > > > Joe > >I thought Canada was a province or is it a colony? :) That's funny, in the winter Florida looks like a colony of Quebec! > What does it take to >upgrade from a province or a colony to be a US state? >I think they meet the basic requirements >1. Beer I hope so. It's about time we had some decent beer in this country! >2. Speak English (sort of) I think that's been changed to Spanish! >3. Dollars But they need to be US $. The Canadian ones aren't worth bringing across the border any more! >Now that I think about it, Utah may fail on the Beer part. Kick out Utah, >replace with Canada. Kansas fails it too. Let's kick out Kansas and replace it with something better. Let's see, Yoguslavia will do! >(Remember it's attempted humor) >Mike :-) Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 09:58:39 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010706145839.50511.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > Once you do a basic service like that on one of these old workhorses, they > last for years and many many pages. The great news about this $15 printer is that the page count from the Postscript test page is about 6500 (the PCL test page shows 35). It's a university surplus printer, so either it was tucked away in the back of a Mac lab (has LocalTalk) or it was recently heavily refurbed. I know how generous my alma mater is... it was almost certainly ignored for its entire working life to only have 6500 pages show. There was a stripped gear in the fuser assy. ($0.87 from printerworks.com) so perhaps it worked for a while, suffered some user abuse from clearing paper jams and sat for several years until recently hauled away. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 09:57:01 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: apoliogies References: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> from"Tom Uban" at Jul 5, 1 07:19:06 pm Message-ID: <003d01c1062b$ea5fc5b0$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> I have no idea why or how outlook just did that.. Sorry - Mike From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 09:58:16 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706105657.00a19160@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:02 PM 7/3/01 -0600, Will J wrote: >Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called >dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... I can see it now, Ganja beer! Joe From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 10:00:48 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Space War? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512B9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Are there any ports of SPACEWAR to the Mac or PC that are > completely true to the original? To add a little more detail to Tom Uban's reply, the version of Spacewar you get from the website url he listed is the *actual* *original* binary executable of the Spacewar program. It runs on an emulated PDP-1 that's written in Java and which gets downloaded to your PC or Mac when you go to the web page. So, the Spacewar *program* is as close to the original as possible, since it *is* the original. The real question to ask, is how close to a real PDP-1 does the emulator come? Regards, -doug q From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 10:02:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110047.00a0f3b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:54 AM 7/4/01 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > > > Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of > > Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by > > about ten years. > >Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. The students >open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely >spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I >apparently didn't learn much. That's ok. I'm sure the confederation is not somehting that they like to talk about. The constitution is what created our federal government and eventually lead the screwing of the American public. Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 10:07:59 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010706150759.90579.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > Of course ANY parallel type printer can use a generic print server, > attached to the printer port, Right. I have an LJ4ML on an HP JetExpress? standalone print server. It's one of the last models that _can't_ use their web adminstration (not enough Flash ROM to load it). I got it for $10 at a tent sale, updated the firmware then got JetAdmin from HPs website before they took it down (they had an announcement posted in January that the older JetAdmin stuff was obsolete and would be phased out during this year) I haven't tried to use it from a Mac (not sure what driver it would need), but it works great from WinBlows and UNIX. That just leaves AmigaDOS and VMS to support, at least on my LAN. :-) > OR use an old 386 or 486 machine w/ network > card as a print server to take the load off the other machines. I have plenty of equipment to do this, but I'd rather not take up the space or the electricity. I'd much rather have an internal card since the printer _has_ a slot. Unfortunately, the LJIIID can't service multiple I/O ports simultaneously like the LJ4ML can. I had the 4ML hooked to a PeeCee and a LocalTalk network and shot jobs from both sides of the house to it. Nice feature. It'd better be... I bought that 4ML new for $1100 'cause I wanted Postscript. > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Reed > -> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 3:05 AM > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question > -> > -> > -> The lasterjet4 and newer use MIO cards, the LAsterjet 3 and 2 > -> use XIO cards > -> > -> Xio cards are between 2 and 3 inches wide and about 4 or 5 inches long. > -> > -> Mio cards are roughly 4x5 ish > -> > -> At 06:33 AM 7/6/01 +0000, you wrote: > -> >On Jul 5, 19:20, Ethan Dicks wrote: > -> > > How could I tell? >From the description, I require an XIO card. I have an XIO LocalTalk card that the printer came with, and a JetLan (Novell?) XIO card that seems to require some kind of software that I don't have. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 10:14:09 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >Sellam Ismail wisely wrote: > > Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very > > disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have > > ended up with today :( > >Well said! All that most of the present politicians in the >U.S. appear to be concerned with today are taxation, oppression, >lining their pockets with cash, and being pawns of business interests. >Why don't they just rename the USA to something like the United Police >State of America and have it over with? > >Back something slightly more on-topic: how many here, when giving >further tought to the pros and cons of computers get the feeling that >we'd all be better off if computers and some related technology didn't >exist? I know that I'd have a lot more time! Ebay, the internet, mailing lists and the like EAT time! > I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are >being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their >facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt >to "catch criminals." WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never heard it. > In other words, they're comparing people's >faces to pictures of criminals in a database. Those seen talking with >suspected criminals, or those with similar faces, become suspects as >well. Very Orwellian. Why people aren't shooting at the cameras and >protesting against their use, I don't know or understand. I guess >that "good little citizens of the state" (foolish, senseless, people) >ought not do such things. You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones that we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the like. We have very few cameras in public areas. FWIW I went to London a couple of years ago and I was amazed at how many cameras they had. Nearly every street corner has one, the Underground (sub-way) stations are full of them and every store had a battery of them. Also I saw something in the news about the UK police setting up a video recognition system that's supposed to be tied in the the cameras in the Underground stations. It's supposed to look for known wanted criminals and alert the police if any of them are spotted in the stations. Does anyone know if that system has gone into opeation or how effective it is? Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 10:18:20 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! In-Reply-To: <3B45CDD5.9BCA95C4@tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <20010706151820.50106.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ken Wellsch wrote: > Yes, I just took a look at the PUPS archive and indeed this file > has been damaged. I'm happy to see the copy I have elsewhere is > still okay. Is the PRO350 distro of 2.9BSD on the 4-CD set of ancient Unices? I'd look at the label myself, but I'm at work and it isn't. I'm glad this stuff has been preserved... I had a copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy of 2.9BSD on 1600BPI magtape that fell on me from a DEC Field-Servoid about 15 years ago, but the source tape had read errors. :-( I even have some Pro hardware sitting in a corner - lots of it hit the thrift stores about 6 years ago - you could get a complete system for $10. I even had someone come to my house to give one away! It has VENIX on it and works, but he forgot the root password and I never had the time to go crack it. In any case, I'd love to drop a larger disk on it (larger than the RD52 that's in there) and spin up some BSD. When you get this all working, I'd love to hear about it. I don't have any Qbus PDP-11s better than a KDF-11, so I'm kinda locked out of 2.11BSD. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jul 6 10:28:34 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: <200107042117.QAA01576@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:17:02 -0500 (CDT) Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > As for the CDC card reader, it definitely was MUCH faster, probably > > at least 10 times the speed. The feed mechanism used air to move the > > card though the slot past the photo cells. According to the "A few good men from Univac", the CDC Model 405 card reader was built for speed, and worked optically. It had a car headlamp bulb and a row of photodiodes. The card was read twice, and the results compared, any discrepancies sending the card to a "reject" bin. > I think (i dont have the book handy) that in "A few good men from Univac" > the author discusses some of the CDC card reader history. Can someone > who has a copy hand verify this? It does describe the 405, but it doesn't mention anything about Univac using the CDC reader. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 10:29:36 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706111546.00a24d90@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:59 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what > song > > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. > >Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled >in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. No, they need to enroll him in a course in Iran, Iraq or any of the numerious other counties that have zero personal freedom. >It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. I wonder >if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of >Maryland. >Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap >guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical >politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, >then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting Soon to be banned since it's bad for the Ozone. >and a >watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, Banned due to the risk of personal injury! > which was followed later on >in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, >bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic >displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) Bad, Bad, Bad! >Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; >we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South >Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West >Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the >border that were selling the fireworks. You'd like it here in Florida. Fireworks have made a real come back. I was outside on the 3rd and 4th and fireworks were popping off in every direction all day and all night long. It's still technically illegal to shoot them but it's seldom enforced now. Around this time of year and on January 1, every major intersection has a large stand selling fireworks. Most of them are the wimpy class C stuff but they make up for it in shear volume. There are even a number of stores that sell nothing but fireworks that are now open year round. I stopped at one at I-95 and SR 520 and stocked up the week before. In addition, there were at least 6 very large (and free) fireworks shoots in the area and a couple more at the expensive parks like Disney and Universal. >Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal >fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after >all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason >for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give >people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more >vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt >politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising >every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be >thunk by good little citizens, what? Agreed! Joe (member of the Florida Pyrotechnics Arts Guild) From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 6 10:27:49 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706105657.00a19160@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706102647.01e57100@pc> At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > I can see it now, Ganja beer! Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. - John From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 10:48:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706102647.01e57100@pc> Message-ID: <001101c10633$0f428140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Just keep in mind that "The only good druggie is a dead one!" Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:27 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > > I can see it now, Ganja beer! > > Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can > graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. > > - John > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 6 11:08:45 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, John Honniball wrote: > According to the "A few good men from Univac", the CDC > Model 405 card reader was built for speed, and worked > optically. It had a car headlamp bulb and a row of > photodiodes. The card was read twice, and the results > compared, any discrepancies sending the card to a "reject" > bin. Hmmmm. While not explicitly wanting to cast doubt on the credibility of the book, ... Can anyone here confirm whether the book got those particular facts right? From personal experience! NOT from some other book that got its "facts" from this one! 1) At that time, automobile headlights were big, bulky, and inefficient. Halogen bulbs were readily available, (for example, had come out for home movie lighting), but were NOT available YET as automotive headlights. Halogen automotive headlights became available later, but weren't legal for several more decades. The automobile headlight was WAY too big to be practical for that purpose, and the card reader would not have any need for that much light. On the other hand, that was right when automobile TAILlight bulbs reached their all time peak popularity for other uses, such as the "Tensor" or "high intensity" domestic reading light that consisted of a taillight bulb and a transformer. THAT would be a VERY useful size for building into such equipment. I USED TO have a chunk of surplus optics from a card reader (no idea what make) that appeared to be based on a small light source. (such as a halogen movie light bulb, or a TAILlight bulb) 2) Except for voting in Florida, would you want a card that failed to read consistently to be REMOVED FROM SEQUENCE in the deck???!? Having the computer produce an appropriate error message, and maybe even the offset from the beginning of the file^H^H^H^H deck, would be the correct way to handle it. In a purely data file, where the quantity of data doesn't much matter, it could be OK. But there are too many situations where you would NOT want to continue with the processing of the file if there are corrupted records, and users would be IRATE to have the corrupted records taken out of sequence! ("Hmmmm. Where in the program did this damaged 'N = N + 1' belong?") -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jul 6 11:14:46 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! In-Reply-To: <20010706151820.50106.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c10636$c6450fe0$664199a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> Ken Wellsch just sent me a clean version of the Pro350 patches. Getting 2.9BSD running on a very small generic KDF11-A machine is what this is all about. I'll let you know when I get it to boot on real hardware. In fact, the whole world will know. ;-) The build I am working on will not run on a Pro. I don't have one to try it on. I'm extracting only the MSCP-specific software from the Pro patches and adding it to the regular 2.9 distribution from the PUPS archive. It appears that the pro350 patches are for a later release of 2.9 than the vanilla 2.9BSD PUPS distribution. When I compared some of the files other than the ra driver, there appeared to be a lot more stuff added than would be justified by the addition of the PRO-specific hardware. When I realized this, I thought about upgrading, and looked at the 2.9BSD-Patch distribution, but that looked like a major undertaking, which would require me to actually understand what I was doing, so I decided not to. -- Jonathan Engdahl???????????????? Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer????? 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology????????????? Euclid, OH 44117, USA Euclid Labs????????????????????? engdahl@cle.ab.com 216-266-6409 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 11:18 AM > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is > corrupt! > > > > --- Ken Wellsch wrote: > > Yes, I just took a look at the PUPS archive and indeed this file > > has been damaged. I'm happy to see the copy I have elsewhere is > > still okay. > > Is the PRO350 distro of 2.9BSD on the 4-CD set of ancient Unices? I'd > look at the label myself, but I'm at work and it isn't. > > I'm glad this stuff has been preserved... I had a copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy > of 2.9BSD on 1600BPI magtape that fell on me from a DEC > Field-Servoid about > 15 years ago, but the source tape had read errors. :-( > > I even have some Pro hardware sitting in a corner - lots of it hit the > thrift stores about 6 years ago - you could get a complete system for $10. > I even had someone come to my house to give one away! It has VENIX on it > and works, but he forgot the root password and I never had the time to > go crack it. In any case, I'd love to drop a larger disk on it (larger > than the RD52 that's in there) and spin up some BSD. > > When you get this all working, I'd love to hear about it. I > don't have any > Qbus PDP-11s better than a KDF-11, so I'm kinda locked out of 2.11BSD. > > -ethan From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 6 11:13:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001101c10633$0f428140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: No more ganja beer for Dick; he's had enough. On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Just keep in mind that "The only good druggie is a dead one!" > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Foust" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:27 AM > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > > > I can see it now, Ganja beer! > > > > Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can > > graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. > > > > - John From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Fri Jul 6 11:13:34 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:22 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) Message-ID: > > You'd like it here in Florida. Fireworks have made a real come >back. I was outside on the 3rd and 4th and fireworks were popping off in >every direction all day and all night long. It's still technically illegal >to shoot them but it's seldom enforced now. Around this time of year and >on January 1, every major intersection has a large stand selling fireworks. >Most of them are the wimpy class C stuff but they make up for it in shear >volume. There are even a number of stores that sell nothing but fireworks >that are now open year round. I stopped at one at I-95 and SR 520 and >stocked up the week before. I think the state law here in Florida is that you cannot ignite any fireworks other than class "C" without a permit and permits are only given to professional pyromaniacs. Basically, that leaves sparklers and smoke bombs the only legal devices that individuals can display. However... In Broward County where I live, if you are over 18 and sign a waiver stating that you will not ignite them within the state, you can legally buy whatever kind of fireworks that you want. Cherry bombs, m-80s, arial displays (mortars), bottle rockets, roman candles, you name it. The sheriff will routinely check the vendors to make sure they are complying but once you leave the store, all bets are off. There is absolutely no enforcement of the restrictions on individuals. My ears are still ringing and I'm still choking from all the smoke. SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msell at ontimesupport.com Fri Jul 6 11:19:59 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706111729.02ba8c00@127.0.0.1> Joe, You seem to be wrong on both counts (don't take personal offense to that...). Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html You don't actually believe that you would be informed that your state government was going to be watching did you? I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family. Gives me the shivers..... - Matt >> I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are >>being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their >>facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt >>to "catch criminals." > > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never > heard it. > > > You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones > that we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the > like. We have very few cameras in public areas. > > Joe "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jul 6 11:20:50 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <200107061620.MAA15894@world.std.com> >> I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are >>being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their >>facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt >>to "catch criminals." > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never >heard it. You need to look around more... cameras are getting to be everywhere... and they are getting to be prevalent enough that news shows are starting to do segments about them and the privacy issues... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp890.monmouth.com Fri Jul 6 11:26:55 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp890.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! In-Reply-To: <20010706151820.50106.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 6, 2001 08:18:20 am" Message-ID: <200107061626.f66GQtd24809@bg-tc-ppp890.monmouth.com> > I even have some Pro hardware sitting in a corner - lots of it hit the > thrift stores about 6 years ago - you could get a complete system for $10. > I even had someone come to my house to give one away! It has VENIX on it > and works, but he forgot the root password and I never had the time to > go crack it. In any case, I'd love to drop a larger disk on it (larger > than the RD52 that's in there) and spin up some BSD. > > When you get this all working, I'd love to hear about it. I don't have any > Qbus PDP-11s better than a KDF-11, so I'm kinda locked out of 2.11BSD. > > -ethan > > The Venix distribution was up on the DECUS site so you can get it free... I'd have killed for the source code. I've got it archived on QIC-24 or QIC-150 somewhere. I also think Tim Shoppa had it up on his site. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 11:34:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Never touch the stuff! It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate of immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced a death-wish as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. by spitting on the sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of people, with a written apology issued in the unlikely even that someone unjustly punished complain because their rights have been violated. It's got to be like violating a law, any law, is equivalent to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. I've considered that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten iron be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the chance to enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > No more ganja beer for Dick; he's had enough. > > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Just keep in mind that "The only good druggie is a dead one!" > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Foust" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:27 AM > > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > > > > At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > > > > I can see it now, Ganja beer! > > > > > > Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can > > > graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. > > > > > > - John > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 11:39:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> <200107061620.MAA15894@world.std.com> Message-ID: <001901c1063a$2ce8ab00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's all in preparation for the day when there will be only one punishment for all crime ... and I still favor the immersion in molten iron for punishment. It would make a good show at halftime during the superbowl. Tie 'em to a steel rail and lower 'em into the pot at about 1" per second ... feet first, then tell the kids, "See? That's what happens if you don't go to school. That's what happens if you steal ... " Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:20 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > >> I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are > >>being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their > >>facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt > >>to "catch criminals." > > > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never > >heard it. > > You need to look around more... cameras are getting to be everywhere... > > and they are getting to be prevalent enough that news shows are starting > to do segments about them and the privacy issues... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 6 12:06:53 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I've never tried it. Is it illegal? Interesting concept about capital punishment for trivial crimes. Would that also be the punishment for failing to adequately trim quotes? When do we start? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Never touch the stuff! > > It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate of > immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced a death-wish > as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. by spitting on the > sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of people, with a written > apology issued in the unlikely even that someone unjustly punished complain > because their rights have been violated. It's got to be like violating a law, > any law, is equivalent to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. > I've considered that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten > iron be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass > murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the chance to > enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > No more ganja beer for Dick; he's had enough. > > > > > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > Just keep in mind that "The only good druggie is a dead one!" > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Foust" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:27 AM > > > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > > > > > > > At 10:58 AM 7/6/01 -0400, joe wrote: > > > > > I can see it now, Ganja beer! > > > > > > > > Cannabis and the hop plant are so closely related, you can > > > > graft the roots of one to the stem of the other. > > > > > > > > - John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 6 12:32:30 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards In-Reply-To: "Mike" "please help ID a few Apple ][ boards" (Jul 6, 10:54) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> <001601c1062b$9bc93620$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <10107061832.ZM28614@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 6, 10:54, Mike wrote: > 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Not sure about the others (though A2cardsc.jpg looks familiar) but this one is an Apple Parallel Printer Interface Card, for an Epson or Centronics printer. Put it in slot 1 and type PR#1 to print. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 12:51:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706134613.00aaae80@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:13 PM 7/6/01 -0400, you wrote: >> You'd like it here in Florida. Fireworks have made a real come >>back. I was outside on the 3rd and 4th and fireworks were popping off in >>every direction all day and all night long. It's still technically illegal >>to shoot them but it's seldom enforced now. Around this time of year and >>on January 1, every major intersection has a large stand selling fireworks. >>Most of them are the wimpy class C stuff but they make up for it in shear >>volume. There are even a number of stores that sell nothing but fireworks >>that are now open year round. I stopped at one at I-95 and SR 520 and >>stocked up the week before. > >I think the state law here in Florida is that you cannot ignite any >fireworks other than class "C" without a permit and permits are only given >to professional pyromaniacs. Basically, that leaves sparklers and smoke >bombs the only legal devices that individuals can display. Actually you're allowed to buy them for "agriculturial use". That's is you can use them for scaring off birds and such from your crops. At first, the sellers were having everyone sign a statement that they were buying them for agriculturial use but now they just sell them to you with no questions asked. >However... In Broward County where I live, if you are over 18 and sign a >waiver stating that you will not ignite them within the state, you can >legally buy whatever kind of fireworks that you want. Cherry bombs, m-80s, >arial displays (mortars), bottle rockets, roman candles, you name it. Yes, but it' s all still class C unless you have a federal (BATF) license. Even then the stands don't carry the class B stuff, you have to buy it from a specialty supplier or manufacturer. Joe From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jul 6 13:08:23 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:06:53 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200107061808.f66I8OD06497@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote (after Richard Erlacher): > Interesting concept about capital punishment for trivial crimes. Would > that also be the punishment for failing to adequately trim quotes? When > do we start? Shortly after we have successful implementation of a universal requirement for authentication of e-mail senders. (Don't hold your breath.) -Frank McConnell From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 13:18:30 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706111729.02ba8c00@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706135937.00aabd20@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:19 AM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote: >Joe, > >You seem to be wrong on both counts (don't take personal offense to that...). > >Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html Interesting. That seems to be the same system that's supposed to be in use in London. BTW the description in the news-bite is NOT the same as that described in the original message. Tampa is using it to look for wanted criminals and not racial profiling. I for one don't have a problem with that but it would be easy (prehaps too easy) for the system to be abused or be modified to be invasive to law abiding citizens. While we're on this topic, I'm a lot more concerned about the commercail systems that tack people and their social and buying habits than I am with the government systems. A good example of one of the commercail systems is the soon to be implemented plan to install GPS systems in ALL cell phones. Weather you're aware of it or not, the cell phones are on and transmitting anytime that they're turned on. This means that your cell phone company will soon be able to track to within inches you anytime you have your cell phone turned on. A good example of what that means that they will know exactly where you shop and what sections of the store that you visit, even to the extent of what types of books you read basedon your location in book stores. That will be a gold mine of information to advertisers, tele-marketers and other low-lifes. In addition they will know where you work (and therefore a good idea of your income), the routes that you take to work, where you spend your vacations, where you eat, etc. It would be like having a private eye tailing yuou everywhere you went. >You don't actually believe that you would be informed that your state >government was going to be watching did you? Actually yes. Most of them are proud of their toys and they like to brag and show them off. It's also very informative to listen to some of the public hearings such as the police budget requests. That's how we found out that our Orange County sheriff wated a tank in case of riots at an international soccer match that was held here a few years ago. >I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates >at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit >family. Gives me the shivers..... That doesn't surprise me. They've been doing that at borders for years. Joe > - Matt > > > > > >>> I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are >>>being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their >>>facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt >>>to "catch criminals." >> >> WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never >> heard it. >> >> >> You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones >> that we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the >> like. We have very few cameras in public areas. >> >> Joe > > >"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > >Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 13:33:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? Message-ID: <20010706183323.79003.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> I have the chance to pick up a Lisa CPU unit only. It has a 3.5" drive visible from the front, no cards visible from the outside (couldn't open the back to look in), and does not come with keyboard or mouse. On the back are a video out jack, two 25-pin serial connections, a reset button and an interrupt button. The power switch lights up and is next to the 1/4" keyboard jack. When I turn it on, the screen looks good and I can see it going through its paces. It complains that there is no keyboard. I have no idea how much one would cost, but I expect it's >$50. I do not know how to tell if has been "upgraded" to a Mac/XL or if it is original. What's a good price for most of a Lisa? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 6 13:40:24 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706135937.00aabd20@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706111729.02ba8c00@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> <3B42B295.67A5650@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706113537.026d70d0@209.185.79.193> >I for one don't have a problem with that but it would be easy (prehaps too >easy) for the system to be abused or be modified to be invasive to law >abiding citizens. Exactly. LEOs are people too, and a percentage of them are bad people. Some are good people doing things badly. Consider the Santa Cruz police department illegally scanning all cellular phone traffic in a area where they believed protest organizers _might_ be using cell phones to co-ordinate. Never mind that you need a court order to listen in on someone's phone call. Ref: San Jose Mercury news. If you believe an honest citizen (or police officer) is someone who hasn't yet had a big enough temptation to become a criminal, then opening up a free candy store (as things like Carnivore are) in front of them is just plain bad policy. --Chuck From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 07:18:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107060251.TAA07472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <477.587T2600T7986613optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >Since we're talking Amiga upgrades, a knowledgeable Amiga guru I spoke to >told me that the GVP A530 I have attached to my A500 only takes those >funky 64-pin SIMMs. Are these the same SIMMs the Mac IIfx required? To the best of my knowledge, they are not the same ones. If you're a handy man, you could build an adapter for 72-pin ones, though a handy friend of mine has managed to obliterate several 72-pinners that way. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 07:24:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1942.587T850T8044579optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>The majority of my memory is comprised of 30-pin SIMMs on a Fastlane Z3 SCSI >>card. It's a really nice SCSI card (I particularly like the fact that it's >>got a full CEN50 socket on the blanking plate), but even though it's a Z3 >>card, the RAM only runs at 80% of the mobo speed. > For a while, I thought about getting one of the DKB 3128 ZIII >memory boards, but never got around to it. I did try to use the >Rapidfire for RAM once, but it slowed things down so much I didn't >leave it like that. The thing I always hated about expanding the >ZIPs in an A3000 wasn't getting the chips but inserting them into the >sockets. The way the 3000's ZIP banks were staggered made for a >difficult time aligning the pins. We thought about getting such a board until some weeks ago when we were lended a Phase 5 Cyberstorm MK II 060 accelerator with 72-pin sockets. Still, it's quite apparent that this A3000 is kept together mostly by rust and hot glue. On good days, it works from a cold boot, otherwise it requires a few resets before everything's settled. >>And it can't be expanded either? Hm, sounds a lot like the PII. > The base Spectrum came with just 1meg while the higher end >one came with 2. I believe it was simple enough to add the 2nd meg >to the base model though. At the time, I had a 14" NEC monitor >attached to it and I liked keeping the virtual screen set for >auto-scrolling with the screen size set to 1280 x 960 with the actual >viewable at a single time as 640 x 480. We thought about buying such a card, too, until we were lended a Picasso IV. You can't go any farther on the Zorro bus (ATM). >BTW, is WB still limited to 256 colors? God forbid! That could be a good reason to install P96/CGFX instead of EGS. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Anv?nd g?rna mitt staket, fast du beh?ver nog fr?scha upp det lite. Lupin III, Lupin den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 14:06:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: [pups] adding MSCP driver to 2.9BSD -- distribution is corrupt! In-Reply-To: <200107061626.f66GQtd24809@bg-tc-ppp890.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010706190623.79755.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > I wrote: > > I even have some Pro hardware sitting in a corner - lots of it hit the > > thrift stores about 6 years ago - you could get a complete system for $10. > > I even had someone come to my house to give one away! It has VENIX on it > > and works, but he forgot the root password and I never had the time to > > go crack it > > The Venix distribution was up on the DECUS site so you can get it > free... I'd have killed for the source code. Right. I have distro floppies, minus the starting disk. The donor had no idea where it was, and at the time, VENIX was still being sold (not being *bought* mind you, just available should anyone _really_ want it ;-) If I could build a bootable VENIX disk that would dump me to a prompt, I wouldn't have to worry about what the old password was. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 14:22:34 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512BE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > When I turn it on, the screen looks good and I can see it going through its > paces. It complains that there is no keyboard. I have no idea how much one > would cost, but I expect it's >$50. > > I do not know how to tell if has been "upgraded" to a Mac/XL or if it is > original. > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? Too much. I've got a box of parts, from a Widget HD to RAM cards and maybe even a CPU card; two printer cards, etc. Just can't find the "handyman's special" I've been looking for... Regards, -dq From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 6 14:36:08 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 12:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you [R.D. Davis] wrote: > > I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are > >being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their [...] > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never > heard it. They're in the Tampa Bay area; this was reported by Matt Drudge, the investigative news reporter who has a radio talk show. [...] > the news about the UK police setting up a video recognition system that's > supposed to be tied in the the cameras in the Underground stations. It's > supposed to look for known wanted criminals and alert the police if any of > them are spotted in the stations. Does anyone know if that system has > gone into opeation or how effective it is? Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many problems for innocent people. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 6 14:49:37 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010706111729.02ba8c00@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html [...] > I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates > at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family. > Gives me the shivers..... Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose. Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer. > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 14:41:58 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512BE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010706194158.76170.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > Too much. Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much if it's missing bits? Are keyboards findable? 3.5" 400K disk images with Lisa software? I suspect that a Mac 128K/512K mouse would work (nine-pin, raw quadrature), but keyboards are particular beasts. Anyone ever rig up a PIC scan-code converter? I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with software, docs and a printer go for $25, but is a base unit with a working monitor and CPU worth $50? $100? More? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 15:30:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <200107061620.MAA15894@world.std.com> Message-ID: <584.587T2400T12905817optimus@canit.se> Megan skrev: >You need to look around more... cameras are getting to be everywhere... Here, the national museum still hasn't been granted the right to use cameras in the exhibition halls, despite that several oeuvres were stolen last year in an elaborate coup. The Swedish laws about computer registers and cameras are very severe, to the extent of threatening the existence of BBSes and web cameras. There are traffic cameras, but they're preceded by signs warning drivers of them. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 15:17:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010706081234.01e69ef0@pc> Message-ID: <2694.587T400T12774065optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 12:04 AM 7/6/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>I recall reading a document about how someone transferred his HD to a HDF >>file, and I actually believe that he used Transdisk. >According to the HDF file format docs, an HDF differs from an >ADF (floppy) file in that it has "a bootblock, a rootblock, a >[block] bitmap and perhaps dircache blocks." Well, all right, but then wouldn't a grab of the HD result in those attributes being saved, or do UAE hardfiles lack a real rigid disk block? >>OTOH you could try >>connecting the drives directly to the PC and do a "dd" or similar. >I saw a tool to do that, but it warned that sometimes the >drive becomes unreadable. It doesn't sound like a read-only >tool. I don't understand why they'd write to the disk if I didn't >ask it to. Probably the programmer doesn't either, but wants to be on the safe side. =) >>Another idea would be to start UAE, install AmiTCP, or at least amiganetfs, >>and transfer the disk contents that way. >I think I'd lose information. I don't trust the mapping of filename >characters, for example. I doubt Amiga file comments would be >preserved via NFS, too. I'm not recommending that you use NFS, or that you save the files into a Windows folder, but that you set up a hardfile in UAE tpo copy the contents into. Since you then would have a hardfile with a real Amiga filesystem (well, as real as a hardfile might be), and would be using amiganetfs (which is not the same as NFS), a filesystem which works on a very low level, the copy would be just the same as if you had done the copy between two drives on the same bus. I've done backups between Amigas using amiganetfs, and all attributes are saved. I just did an ls of the backup, and it contained file comments and all that. >As I said, I've already got an NFS link to my PC. I can easily >"copy dh10:#? NTp: all" and send the files as files to my PC, but >I don't want to spend hours figuring out which files were lost. That's why you should do the copy straight between the Amiga and the emulated environment, without passing through any alien file systems or network protocols. >Having an HDF file on my PC would be delightful. I installed >a Windows program called ADF View. It's a Windows Explorer extension >for ADF and HDF files, meaning now those two file extensions have >their own icon linked to this program, and when you click on >an HDF file, it opens a new Explorer window and lets you >browse the HDF file as if it were part of the Windows file system. >Very handy! About as handy as you get with an emulator... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL! TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER! From rachael_ at gmx.net Fri Jul 6 16:07:55 2001 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga HDs to .HDF for emulation? Message-ID: <529.587T2771T13274087rachael_@gmx.net> Hi >Am I missing something obvious, like that the ADF-based tools >will work with hard disks, too? If you downloadet dev-handler.lha from Aminet, it would give you a new device called DEV: , then you could simply do a copy dev:hd0 ntp:foo.hdf . Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 15:15:53 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > > > Too much. > > Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much > if it's missing bits? The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as part of the Mac's heritage. > Are keyboards findable? 3.5" 400K disk images with Lisa software? I > suspect that a Mac 128K/512K mouse would work (nine-pin, raw quadrature), > but keyboards are particular beasts. Anyone ever rig up a PIC scan-code > converter? I've seen just keyboards for sale on E-Bay... > I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with software, > docs and a printer go for $25, but is a base unit with a working monitor > and CPU worth $50? $100? More? Yeah, I'd give you 50 bucks for it... Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't those times... Regards, -doug q From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 15:27:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001b01c1065a$0ca8d8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy in Redmond. Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile in the oval office. Not even Schickelgruber, however manipulable he may have been, was that stupid. Now the Texan Potentate and his sidekick want us all to accept that drilling NWAR for more oil, the first of which we'll see in about a decade and a half, will solve this week's energy crisis. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:49 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > > Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html > [...] > > I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates > > at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family. > > Gives me the shivers..... > > Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when > Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose. > Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of > the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer. > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone > know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 15:30:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <002101c1065a$7f4f20c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> So put the thing up on eBay. That will get you the top price you could expect. You'll be surprised how little that will be. Nowadays, every time I go to the thrift stores, I see several old MAC's and an occasional Lisa, for 10% of what a comparable PC goes for, and that's not very much. Of course if you look inside the typical MAC/Lisa thingie, there's a HDD that's not terribly interesting except, perhaps, historically. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: RE: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > > > > > Too much. > > > > Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much > > if it's missing bits? > > The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as > part of the Mac's heritage. > > > Are keyboards findable? 3.5" 400K disk images with Lisa software? I > > suspect that a Mac 128K/512K mouse would work (nine-pin, raw quadrature), > > but keyboards are particular beasts. Anyone ever rig up a PIC scan-code > > converter? > > I've seen just keyboards for sale on E-Bay... > > > I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with > software, > > docs and a printer go for $25, but is a base unit with a working monitor > > and CPU worth $50? $100? More? > > Yeah, I'd give you 50 bucks for it... > > Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't > those times... > > Regards, > -doug q > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 15:32:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <002501c1065a$bf89ffc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Actually, a search on eBay, of the recently sold items, should give you a round number. That will be a starting point from which you can go downward. Doing that will save you from soiling your hands with an eBay transaction. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: RE: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > > > > > Too much. > > > > Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much > > if it's missing bits? > > The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as > part of the Mac's heritage. > > > Are keyboards findable? 3.5" 400K disk images with Lisa software? I > > suspect that a Mac 128K/512K mouse would work (nine-pin, raw quadrature), > > but keyboards are particular beasts. Anyone ever rig up a PIC scan-code > > converter? > > I've seen just keyboards for sale on E-Bay... > > > I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with > software, > > docs and a printer go for $25, but is a base unit with a working monitor > > and CPU worth $50? $100? More? > > Yeah, I'd give you 50 bucks for it... > > Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't > those times... > > Regards, > -doug q > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 6 15:53:46 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: FT: Alpha Architecture Docs Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706134729.0246eeb0@209.185.79.193> The Alpha was started by DEC in 1988 as a replacement for the VAX, it extends the address space to 64 bits and switches from a CISC architecture to a RISC architecture. I've got a copy the Alpha Architecture Reference Manual (AARM) and the Alpha Architecture Handbook (AAH) which combined give you everything you need to know about the Alpha. They're extras. I'd like to offer them in trade to anyone who has EITHER: KA640 Technical Manual KA680 Technical Manual Also published by Digital. --Chuck From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Fri Jul 6 15:48:12 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B46240C.9197CFE0@pacbell.net> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > [ ... ] > > Matt Drudge, the investigative news reporter who has a radio talk show. > You mean, Matt Drudge the gossip columnist and radio talk show host who likes to pretend that he's a journalist ... From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 6 16:03:26 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor ) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy in Redmond. > Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile in the oval office. Not > even Schickelgruber, however manipulable he may have been, was that stupid. Now > the Texan Potentate and his sidekick want us all to accept that drilling NWAR > for more oil, the first of which we'll see in about a decade and a half, will > solve this week's energy crisis. Schickelgruber in the White House.... listening to Gas Music from Jupiter, no doubt. Then it's TRUE, they're in EVERYBODYS eggs! From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 14:40:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Even on some parts, HP Partsdirect isn't bad as their price includes >standard shipping, within the US. > >MCM electronics carries all sorts of rubber rejuvenators but the pickup >roller on the II/III series is a foamy kind of rubber and sometimes react >strangely to the rubber treatments. OTOH if 5 minutes with a swab fixes the problem, then its not a bad first attempt. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 15:15:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107061351.GAA10816@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Jeff Hellige at "Jul 6, 1 05:38:30 am" Message-ID: >> I'm sure Iggy or Gareth will correct me if I'm wrong, but I >> believe the A530 uses the proprietary GVP SIMMs that were only used >> in GVP items. Thankfully my GVP HD+ on my A500 uses regular 30pin >> SIMMs. > >I'm just wondering if the pinout is the same, since I do know they're >64 pin. I can get my hands on IIfx memory "fairly cheaply" (this is >a relative term). I have a couple flavours, some IIfx and some AST 64 pin ram. Remind me next time you stop by. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 15:59:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards In-Reply-To: <000701c1062a$f99e78b0$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3B440594.D2BADD81@gorge.net> Message-ID: >http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg >http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Those have got to be the two most common A2 cards that exist; Floppy drive and Serial. Anybody remember what a Apple Dumpling card is? I am thinking it copies ram to a floppy file and back to defeat copy protection. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 16:09:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010706210924.30117.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> > > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > I wrote: > > > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? > > > > > > Too much. > > > > Do you mean that most people charge too much, or "any" price is too much > > if it's missing bits? > > The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as > part of the Mac's heritage. That's the only reason I'd have any interest in it. I remember playing with a Lisa right about the time the 128K Mac showed up. My oldest Mac is a 512Ke that my mother bought new, full-price as a 512K and paid to upgrade (new ROMs, double-sided drive). I'm also a big Motorola 68K fan. One of my favorite jobs ever was hacking COMBOARDs in assembly and C (8Mhz 68000 w/32K SRAM up to 2Mb DRAM). > > I realize that I will probably never see a complete Lisa system with > > software, docs and a printer go for $25, I should have said "again" here (passed one by at a Hamfest years ago). > > a base unit with a working monitor... > Yeah, I'd give you 50 bucks for it... That was my opinion of its value, but I wanted to hear from others. > Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't > those times... No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box only, $5. I want to turn an SE or Plus into a localtalk gateway with that software from Apple's ftp site that has been mentioned here once or twice. I'll go back to the sale on Sunday and see what hasn't moved and offer the guy about 20% of his asking prices on some stuff and see how bad he wants to sell it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 6 16:22:06 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 06, 2001 03:49:37 PM Message-ID: <200107062122.f66LM6h30809@narnia.int.dittman.net> Can we get the political debates out of here? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 6 17:05:37 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706101417.00ab2960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 10:05 AM 7/6/01 +0930, you wrote: > > > > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all > >citizens vote. > > > >Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually > >all of the eligible voters. > >It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US > >elections actually bother to vote. > > > FWIW in the last election, some precients here in Florida had more > than a 97% turnout. My person opinion, if someone is too lazy to register > and/or vote I don't want them voting anyway. In the last election, the > democrats realized that they were in trouble here in Florida and they > issued a last minute plea for more "mininories" to get out and vote at the > last minute. That's what lead to a lot of the voter confusion and > un-counted votes. Many of those last minute voters had never registered > and most of them didn't even know that they had to go to a voting place IN > THEIR OWN DISTRICT. They simply went to the first voting palce that they > found and DEMANDED to vote. Of course, they were turned away and told that > they had to vote in their own district but since they hadn't bothered to > even find out were that was they ran out of time before they could vote. > > Joe IMHO, that is a pretty good analysis of at least part of the problem, Joe. It is my belief that the Congress, what with `motor voter' et al, has made it far too easy to vote. The net result being a vast number of voters who have not the slightest notion of who or what they are voting for or why as they have not spent thirty seconds thinking about it before appearing at the polls. Likely the very old rule that only property owners had the right to vote deserved to be overturned, but it certainly put a more thoughtful group of voters at the polls. - don From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 6 17:01:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <20010706145839.50511.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >so perhaps it worked for a while, suffered some user abuse from clearing >paper jams and sat for several years until recently hauled away. Thats one thing that gets me with university surplus, I buy a batch of 5 year old computers, and find they haven't been used since 1999, ie 2 years of sitting before disposal. From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 6 17:21:11 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 12:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: > > >Sellam Ismail wisely wrote: > > > Check out the other articles while you're at it. Be prepared to be very > > > disappointed with what the Founding Fathers had in mind and what we have > > > ended up with today :( > > > >Well said! All that most of the present politicians in the > >U.S. appear to be concerned with today are taxation, oppression, > >lining their pockets with cash, and being pawns of business interests. > >Why don't they just rename the USA to something like the United Police > >State of America and have it over with? > > > >Back something slightly more on-topic: how many here, when giving > >further tought to the pros and cons of computers get the feeling that > >we'd all be better off if computers and some related technology didn't > >exist? > > I know that I'd have a lot more time! Ebay, the internet, mailing > lists and the like EAT time! > > > > I'm thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are > >being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their > >facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt > >to "catch criminals." > > WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never > heard it. There was a front page article in our newspaper on them, Joe. It is in Tampa and the purpose is precisely what you speak of below in the London Tube stations. - don > > In other words, they're comparing people's > >faces to pictures of criminals in a database. Those seen talking with > >suspected criminals, or those with similar faces, become suspects as > >well. Very Orwellian. Why people aren't shooting at the cameras and > >protesting against their use, I don't know or understand. I guess > >that "good little citizens of the state" (foolish, senseless, people) > >ought not do such things. > > You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones that > we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the > like. We have very few cameras in public areas. FWIW I went to London a > couple of years ago and I was amazed at how many cameras they had. Nearly > every street corner has one, the Underground (sub-way) stations are full of > them and every store had a battery of them. Also I saw something in > the news about the UK police setting up a video recognition system that's > supposed to be tied in the the cameras in the Underground stations. It's > supposed to look for known wanted criminals and alert the police if any of > them are spotted in the stations. Does anyone know if that system has > gone into opeation or how effective it is? > > Joe > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 6 13:29:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: <20010706011538.80184.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 5, 1 06:15:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3741 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/c53b7b96/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 6 17:23:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010706090546.009ba210@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Jul 6, 1 09:05:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/3183c83f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 6 17:30:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 6, 1 09:08:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2111 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010706/15e70f45/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 18:22:14 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Ancient LaserJet-3 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010706232214.55583.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > ...LaserJet-III... paper jam... how to restore... feed capability > > > > > > Sure, replace the pickup roller. One of the common faults on the SX > > > engine. > > > > Yep. Just did upper and lower feed rollers and transfer pads on my LJIIID. > > Ran about $30 in parts and a lot of labor/time (I haven't been inside a > > My experience is that he SX engine (I've never done a -D version, though) > is very modular. Many units (PSUs, scanner, motor, fuser, etc) come out > by just undoing a few screws. It's possible to completely clear off the > base pan in about 15 minutes maximum :-). That's about what I did. Unless I totally missed a techie tip, I figured I had to clear the top pan and remove it. Once I did that, the lower transfer pad was _right_ _there_ in plain sight. I was just hoping there was a better way for the next time. It took me more than 15 minutes the first time, though. :-) > > > Remove the E-clips... > > > > Commonly called "circlips" on this end of the pond. > > In the UK the term 'circlip' covers 3 types of fastener Ah. I know of the internal and external clips you are describing; I just don't think I was exposed to different terms for the three kinds. I've always seen the "E-circlips" referred to simply as "circlips". > The SX engine is a real workhorse. It's a bit slow, and it's not the > highest resolution printer in the world, but it works. And it's easily > good enough for everything I need to print (text, the odd schematic > diagram or graph). I have no need for personal stuff over 300dpi, so I'm pretty happy with it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 6 18:22:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <1942.587T850T8044579optimus@canit.se> References: <1942.587T850T8044579optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >We thought about getting such a board until some weeks ago when we were lended >a Phase 5 Cyberstorm MK II 060 accelerator with 72-pin sockets. Still, it's >quite apparent that this A3000 is kept together mostly by rust and hot glue. >On good days, it works from a cold boot, otherwise it requires a few resets >before everything's settled. Did you have to do the INT2 mod on the A3000's mainboard for the MK II? How's heat dissipation with the '060 cpu? When I was running my A3000 with the A3640, the '040 cpu tended to run quite hot and there wasn't enough room for a proper heatsink. > >BTW, is WB still limited to 256 colors? >God forbid! That could be a good reason to install P96/CGFX instead of EGS. If I remember correctly, under EGS on the Spectrum (on both my A3000 and A4000) programs that opened on the WB were limited to a maximum of 256 colors while if they opened on their own screen they could utilize the full maximum number of colors for that resolution. It actually didn't look as bad as it sounds. I ran Shapeshifter on it's own screen in at least 256 colors with a full Mac internet suite (Netscape, Eudora, MacTCP, etc.). It played a mean game of Maelstrom. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From louiss at gate.net Fri Jul 6 18:54:44 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: <200107031956.f63JuxY106352@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). Thanks, Louis From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 6 19:11:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jul 6, 1 07:54:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2451 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/2dcaeb36/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 19:31:07 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:23 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001b01c1065a$0ca8d8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:27 PM 7/6/01 -0600, you wrote: >I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy in Redmond. >Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile in the oval >office. Not >even Schickelgruber, however manipulable he may have been, was that >stupid. Now >the Texan Potentate and his sidekick want us all to accept that drilling NWAR >for more oil, the first of which we'll see in about a decade and a half, will >solve this week's energy crisis. Is that the same energy crisis that the oil industry keeps saying is being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery capacity! Joe >Dick > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "R. D. Davis" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:49 PM >Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html > > [...] > > > I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license > plates > > > at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit > family. > > > Gives me the shivers..... > > > > Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when > > Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose. > > Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of > > the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer. > > > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > > > Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone > > know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery? > > > > -- > > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other > animals: > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above > Nature & > > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify >such > > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 19:36:37 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <200107062122.f66LM6h30809@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706203530.00a19a60@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:22 PM 7/6/01 -0500, Eric wrote: >Can we get the political debates out of here? Probably not. You might as well give up and just set your filters to delete everything that has OT in the title. Joe >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net From manney at hmcltd.net Fri Jul 6 22:45:36 2001 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT: Hyperspace (Was: Space War?) References: <20010706130615.16339@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <011701c10697$49ebc0e0$687ffea9@pii500> > > SPACEWAR: n. A space-combat simulation game, inspired by > > E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books, in which two spaceships > > duel around a central sun, shooting torpedoes at each other and > > jumping through hyperspace. Must be rather loosely based. The good Doctor never used hyperspace in the Lensman series (IIRC, in none of his books, unless you count a foray into the fourth dimension in "Skylark ov Valeron". Wonderful author. I used to play a version of Space War on the HP-41. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 19:07:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Ultrix Netscape? Message-ID: <522.588T1550T674719optimus@canit.se> There has been quite a lot of talk on the NetBSD/pmax list about an elusive version of Netscape for Ultrix. Has anyone ever seen such a beast? All indications I get from a Google search is that there never was an Ultrix port, but people on the list claim otherwise. Any Ultrix gurus around here who know? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music." David McMinn From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jul 6 19:55:20 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706101417.00ab2960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706204036.00aa60d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:05 PM 7/6/01 -0700, Don wrote: >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > > > At 10:05 AM 7/6/01 +0930, you wrote: > > > > > > > > I think the most offensive law in Oz is the requirement that all > > >citizens vote. > > > > > >Mixed reaction to that here. At least the govt is elected by virtually > > >all of the eligible voters. > > >It's mildy amusing that less than half of eligible voters in US > > >elections actually bother to vote. > > > > > > FWIW in the last election, some precients here in Florida had more > > than a 97% turnout. My person opinion, if someone is too lazy to register > > and/or vote I don't want them voting anyway. In the last election, the > > democrats realized that they were in trouble here in Florida and they > > issued a last minute plea for more "mininories" to get out and vote at the > > last minute. That's what lead to a lot of the voter confusion and > > un-counted votes. Many of those last minute voters had never registered > > and most of them didn't even know that they had to go to a voting place IN > > THEIR OWN DISTRICT. They simply went to the first voting palce that they > > found and DEMANDED to vote. Of course, they were turned away and told that > > they had to vote in their own district but since they hadn't bothered to > > even find out were that was they ran out of time before they could vote. > > > > Joe > >IMHO, that is a pretty good analysis of at least part of the problem, >Joe. It is my belief that the Congress, what with `motor voter' et al, >has made it far too easy to vote. The net result being a vast number of >voters who have not the slightest notion of who or what they are voting >for or why as they have not spent thirty seconds thinking about it >before appearing at the polls. > >Likely the very old rule that only property owners had the right to vote >deserved to be overturned, but it certainly put a more thoughtful group >of voters at the polls. > - don Mind you that that was only part of the voting problem here in Florida. The Democrats considered Florida a MUST-WIN state and thought that they'd have an easy win here. However when the polls started showing a very close race, they appealed to every pro-democratic group that they could find by using scare tactics like telling senior citizens that GWB was going to repeal medicare outright. Of course most people realized that was pure hogwash but it worked on a lot of people and they rushed out to vote. (That's one reason that we had such a large turnout.) However many of the same idiots that believe such nonsense were the same ones that had never bothered to vote before and many of them didn't even know that you couldn't vote for more than one person per office. The result was that we got thousands of ballets that weren't punched at all or were punched multiple times for the same race! Personally I'd like to see the competency tests brought back and I'd like to see it written so that potential voters would have to at least have some knowledge of the issues and candidates. But if we did that there'd be a whole lot less Democrats being elected! Stop and think about it, who pushed through the motor-voter act? Who pushed through the law to change the minimum age for voting? In both cases it was the Democrats because they would have the most to gain from those changes. Joe From louiss at gate.net Fri Jul 6 20:04:34 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107070104.VAA14289@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> On Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:11:11 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: #> #> I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's #> invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. #> #> The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, #> are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). #> #> A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic #> ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 #> chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. #> #> So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips # #As far as I can see, yes the 2116s are 3-rail and have the same pinouts #as 4116s. A lot of the time, various manufacturers made very similar RAM #chips with slightly different numbers (another example is the 2016 2K*8 #SRAM which is very similar to the 6116). Sometimes there were slight #timing differences between various manufacturer's chips, often it doesn't #matter. # #I would be very suprised if the Sorceror doesn't work with 4116 DRAMs in it. # #> equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not #> equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of #> the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? # #The 2114 SRAM is single-supply rail (+5V only). Again, it was made by #several companies (but I think most of the time it was called the 2114). #It also happens to be the chip I've had the most failures from :-) # #> #> A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and #> selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). # #Most of the time, RAMs are pretty generic. Match up the capacity, type #(SRAM or DRAM) and number of pins, and you're close to finding a match :-) # #In general, SRAMs were single-rail, +5V only. DRAMs were often 3-rail up #to and including the 16K bit parts. There were single-rail 16Kbit DRAMs, #but they are not that common, and they came out later than the 3 rail parts. # #Most DRAMs have a multiplexed address bus (that's how you fit a 16K RAM, #needing at least 14 address lines, 1 data line, 1 write enable line ,and #3 power lines into a 16 pin package). You send the address in 2 parts and #bring RAS/ and CAS/ low as appropriate. Some older 4K DRAMs, in 22 pin #packages, have a normal address bus with 12 separate pins. Those 22 pin #DRAMs are odd in othter ways, like needing a strobe pulse at 12V levels. # #I am not sure exactly what you want to know, though. If you can say what #information you need, I'll try and dig out the databooks. # #-tony This answers most of my questions, thanks. One further question. What is the difference between "static" ram and "dynamic" ram, since both are "volatile" ram? Or, putting it another way, what is "static" about "static" ram, since it changes as well? Louis From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jul 6 20:17:19 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Calculator Find Message-ID: <01be01c10682$926b3860$4b731fd1@default> While at the thrift on Thursday I found a Singer Friden EC 1117A electronic calculator for $1.99 plus tax. Also got non working Hitron laptop for $4.99. Picked up about 20 books with alot of them being HP calculator manuals. Almost forgot a Toshiba T5100 cost all of $2. Other than the hand full of mousepads that was it for the week. Hope to hit two big auctions next week looking for a few goodies. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 20:05:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <002f01c10681$8c8ec840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't think the 2116's (now, this is from memory cells undisturbed in probably 20 years ... so be careful ... ) are much different from 2117's, which I've routinely interchanged and mixed with 4116's. The 2114's are single-supply 1Kx4-bit SRAMs, while the 2116's are dynamic and 3-rail. The single supply Intel 16-kbit DRAMs are the 2118's. The TI number for the 2114's was TMS-4045 and other vendors had part numbers similar to the 2114, e.g. 9114, 7114, etc. National had a 5290 instead of the 4116 designation, but the parts were similar. There are some "special" parts that need to be noted, particularly the 4115, from Mostek. These were devices the gate capacitance of which wasn't enough to hold their charge reliably for the entire 2 ms refresh interval, so they had the special designation of 4115 to indicate they required more frequent refresh, which often wasn't an issue, since they were used in applications where they were cycled very frequently because of video refresh or other system activities that cycled the row addresses faster than the 2 ms per 128-byte cycle requirement of 4116's. Intel's memory numbering was a mite confusing, as they had an old SRAM line with numbers like 2115 and 2125, which were 1kx1 fast (15-25 ns) srams while the 2114's were slow 1kx4's. They had lots of numbers, and the numeric series designation was often not at all indicative of the nature of the part. I've still got quite a few 4116's (200 ns Tacc, mostly) that I'll donate for the cost of shipping, to folks with REAL applications for them. I'm not interested in shipping them in quantity to folks building pop-art with 'em, however, as these work, and they don't make 'em anymore. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Schulman" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 5:54 PM Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips > I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's > invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. > > The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, > are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). > > A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic > ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 > chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. > > So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips > equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not > equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of > the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? > > A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and > selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). > > Thanks, Louis > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 20:24:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: <200107070104.VAA14289@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <005501c10683$8608f160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Static RAM requires simply that you apply address, control, and, if necessary, data, and, so long as power is applied, the content remains stabile. Dynamic RAM's rely on stored charge that gradually leaks off, and, therefore, must be refreshed. On DRAMs like 4116's, this occurs when the nRAS strobe is raised at the end of a row access. This writes the charge back to all the cells in that row. Consequently, the length of the RAS precharge cycle is just as long, or nearly so, as a read access cycle, as the data is written back to all the cells in the row from the row buffers. The advantage of the DRAM is that it requires much less silicon per bit, for a given geometry, so costs less (less silicon at $XX/lb) per bit. The disadvantage is that, in the case of all the 16-pin multiplexed address DRAMs, more logic and somewhat critical signal timing was required. Later DRAMs followed the same general approach, though it's gotten quite a bit more setup intensive in recent years. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Schulman" To: ; "Tony Duell" Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 7:04 PM Subject: Re: 2116 and other old memory chips > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:11:11 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: > > #> > #> I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's > #> invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. > #> > #> The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on > configuration, > #> are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). > #> > #> A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic > #> ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 > #> chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. > #> > #> So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips > # > #As far as I can see, yes the 2116s are 3-rail and have the same > pinouts > #as 4116s. A lot of the time, various manufacturers made very similar > RAM > #chips with slightly different numbers (another example is the 2016 > 2K*8 > #SRAM which is very similar to the 6116). Sometimes there were slight > #timing differences between various manufacturer's chips, often it > doesn't > #matter. > # > #I would be very suprised if the Sorceror doesn't work with 4116 DRAMs > in it. > # > #> equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are > not > #> equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section > of > #> the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? > # > #The 2114 SRAM is single-supply rail (+5V only). Again, it was made by > #several companies (but I think most of the time it was called the > 2114). > #It also happens to be the chip I've had the most failures from :-) > # > #> > #> A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use > and > #> selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). > # > #Most of the time, RAMs are pretty generic. Match up the capacity, type > > #(SRAM or DRAM) and number of pins, and you're close to finding a match > :-) > # > #In general, SRAMs were single-rail, +5V only. DRAMs were often 3-rail > up > #to and including the 16K bit parts. There were single-rail 16Kbit > DRAMs, > #but they are not that common, and they came out later than the 3 rail > parts. > # > #Most DRAMs have a multiplexed address bus (that's how you fit a 16K > RAM, > #needing at least 14 address lines, 1 data line, 1 write enable line > ,and > #3 power lines into a 16 pin package). You send the address in 2 parts > and > #bring RAS/ and CAS/ low as appropriate. Some older 4K DRAMs, in 22 pin > > #packages, have a normal address bus with 12 separate pins. Those 22 > pin > #DRAMs are odd in othter ways, like needing a strobe pulse at 12V > levels. > # > #I am not sure exactly what you want to know, though. If you can say > what > #information you need, I'll try and dig out the databooks. > # > #-tony > This answers most of my questions, thanks. One further question. What > is the difference between "static" ram and "dynamic" ram, since both > are "volatile" ram? Or, putting it another way, what is "static" about > "static" ram, since it changes as well? > > Louis > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 20:38:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010707013822.99877.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > The 2114 SRAM is single-supply rail (+5V only). Again, it was made by > several companies (but I think most of the time it was called the 2114). > It also happens to be the chip I've had the most failures from :-) I, too, have had these fail numerous times. Much more so than other SRAMs or any DRAMs. The only ones that came close were from the same era: 4096 DRAMs - I have them on some LSI-11 boards and inside a Z-80-based Gorf. When I first got all the parts together to refurb a full-sized Gorf machine, the internal tests showed a memory fault on one of the DRAM boards, covered in 4096 chips. I use the LSI-11 CPU, a COMBOARD (for its memory mapping/DMA engine) and a Fluke tester to check the 4K DRAMs - plug the COMBOARD on the Qbus, put the test RAMs on the LSI-11 board, plug the Fluke emulator/tester in the 68000 socket on the COMBOARD, fire it all up, hit the DMA enable bit on the COMBOARD, then through the Fluke, test a range of 68K memory that corresponds to the appropriate range of Qbus memory addresses and voila - a 4096 tester with about $25K-new-cost worth of test gear. (The Qbus COMBOARD memory map is divided into 4 regions, RAM, shared-memory, I/O and ROM. There are 22 bits of 68K space available to map each and every Qbus location into some valid local address. Who needs mapping registers! No FUBAR on a Qbus!) The first COMBOARD used 2114 SRAMs because they were more reliable than Intel's DRAMs of the day (plus the XC68000 would occasionally enter a microcode fault and reset, causing Z-80-style bus-driven refresh mechanisms to pause too long, letting all the bits leak out). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 6 21:31:57 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Interphase 4220 Cougar Message-ID: <200107070231.f672Vvb32001@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have an Interphase 4220 Cougar board. This board has what appears to have two wide SCSI controllers, one of which is on a daughterboard. Does anyone know what kind of bus interface is on this board? There are two connectors, one of which is 3x32 male and the other is the same connector but only the middle 32 pins exist. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 6 21:33:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2493.588T900T2134785optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>We thought about getting such a board until some weeks ago when we were >>lended a Phase 5 Cyberstorm MK II 060 accelerator with 72-pin sockets. >>Still, it's quite apparent that this A3000 is kept together mostly by rust >>and hot glue. On good days, it works from a cold boot, otherwise it requires >>a few resets before everything's settled. > Did you have to do the INT2 mod on the A3000's mainboard for >the MK II? How's heat dissipation with the '060 cpu? When I was >running my A3000 with the A3640, the '040 cpu tended to run quite hot >and there wasn't enough room for a proper heatsink. We didn't have to modify the motherboard, just move some jumpers for clocks and such, though we did have to saw a hole in the disk bay to accomodate the fan, since the card had been overclocked. Took a whole day, and goes to prove how cramped the A3000 is. The '060 does a much better job at handling heat than the '040. In its original 50 MHz state, it only had a small heatsink, whereas a small fan was added when it was overclocked to 60 or 66 MHz. What INT2 mod, BTW? >> >BTW, is WB still limited to 256 colors? >>God forbid! That could be a good reason to install P96/CGFX instead of EGS. > If I remember correctly, under EGS on the Spectrum (on both >my A3000 and A4000) programs that opened on the WB were limited to a >maximum of 256 colors while if they opened on their own screen they >could utilize the full maximum number of colors for that resolution. >It actually didn't look as bad as it sounds. I ran Shapeshifter on >it's own screen in at least 256 colors with a full Mac internet suite >(Netscape, Eudora, MacTCP, etc.). It played a mean game of Maelstrom. Perhaps am I just spoiled by Amiga performance, but all my Mac activites under emulation have been unbearably slow. Mind you, nowadays I think that my (68k) Macs are just as slow. It's quite amazing to think that my Centris actually runs at a higher clock speed than my A4000. My IIci just spent the last few hours running Ghostview, recoding a plain PS file into a PDF. Hm, the PS was just 4072721 bytes, whereas the PDF turned out at 7697180 bytes. It's a classic PDF, BTW, since it's the manual for a DECstation. =) I also did an Amiga-related find today: a Commodore 1010 external disk drive at 15 crowns. Bulking big thing. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle meine Noten bringen mich nicht aus den N?ten, und ich schreibe noten ?berhaupt nur aus N?ten. --- Ludwig van Beethoven From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jul 6 22:27:22 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: holy grail found Message-ID: <49.d8b18f9.2877db9a@aol.com> well not really, but its a holy grail to me. I traded one of my tandy 102s to get an apple //c+ and finally got it today. Now I have every apple // model now. it's a pretty neat machine. I think it might replace the computer I use to play with and type in programs from 4 years worth of NIBBLE magazines I have. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto, ugliest RV ever and barbie jet motorhome at www.nothingtodo.org From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 6 22:42:27 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001b01c1065a$0ca8d8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy > in Redmond. Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile > in the oval office. Not What about those who tolerated the previous Bozo in Chief, Slick Willie? Also, let's not forget how they also tolerated little Miz "your healthcare is the governments business, not yours" Megalomania, a.k.a. Hillary, who's rumored to have walked Slick Willie around the nut^H^H^Hwhite house grounds on a leash while shouting "Heel little willie!" We really need a better presidential candidate. My vote goes to Uncle "I'll shoot them in the back with an elephant gun" Fester (remember him from the Adams Family TV show?) . Just think of the great political slogan he'd have: Fester, Fester, he's our man - if he can't do it, blasting caps can! Go FESTER!" Just think, anyone who eats mercury-filled thermometers for a snack, and can electrify light-bulbs by placing them in his mouth, can do much more for this nation than most other recent presidents... like solve the energy shortage! :-) :-) :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 6 22:54:13 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > IMHO, that is a pretty good analysis of at least part of the problem, > Joe. It is my belief that the Congress, what with `motor voter' et al, > has made it far too easy to vote. The net result being a vast number of > voters who have not the slightest notion of who or what they are voting [...] Well said! That's why so many cretins are getting into office; too many people voting without actually thinking about why they're voting for who they're voting for---instead, voting for certain candidates due to peer pressure, or because of such short-sighted reasons as a candidate's position on one single political issue, not looking at all of the issues and attempting to make the most rational choice by taking everything into consideration. Let's face it, when we have vast quantities of people voting who have the same, or less, intellect then fingernail-clippings, what else can we expect to have elected into political offices? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 22:45:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) References: <20010707013822.99877.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c10697$34e473e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've still got almost all the RAM chips that have ever failed on me, and, aside from one thoroughly voltage-abused board of small SRAMs, I've got very few that are smaller than 64Kbits. There are a couple of 21L02's a couple of different 2114/2149 types, a dozen or so 4116-types, and perhaps a couple of 6116's. By contrast, I have a paper box about half full of SIMMs and DIMMs, not to mention VRAMs, etc, some of which may be separated from their healthy bretheren if I feel ambitious or desperate some day. The pattern they seem to follow is an order n^2 pattern, where the number of bits squared in a single device seems to be reflective of the risk of failure. That means that a SIMM with 64 MB, one of which I've got right here, with eight EDO DRAMs on it, is 8 times as likely to fail as one with one of the same device type, but the device itself seems to be about 16 times as likely to fail as one a fourth its size. As each shrink in the geometries is brought forth, the industry claims its failure rate per bit goes down, but I've seen nothing of the sort. It seems that the failure rate, for DRAMs anyway, goes up as the square of the number of bits per device. Also, a two-IC SIMM seems about a fourth as likely to fail as one with eight of the same size device on it. That fits, doesn't it? While I don't dispute Tony's experience, mine has been somewhat different. I've still got the first SRAM boards I ever bought for the S-100 bus, all with 4Kbit SRAMs (2147's), and those have never (yet) had a failure. Likewise, I still have the first S-100 board with 32 WIDE SRAMs (6116's) on it, and it's also never experienced a failure. Oddly enough, my S-100 DRAM boards using 4164's have had no failures either, though there are more of them. OTOH, my 2 Ampro Little Boards, have lost over a dozen 4164's over the 15+ years I've had 'em. If one uses only 1000 or so part per week, one doesn't get a complete picture of the real failure rates of memory devices, if you test 40 boards at a time, each with 288 DRAMs on it, and test and ship 100+ boards a week, then you get a picture. Believe me, it's different from what one gets in the basement personal computer and electronics lab. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 7:38 PM Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > The 2114 SRAM is single-supply rail (+5V only). Again, it was made by > > several companies (but I think most of the time it was called the 2114). > > It also happens to be the chip I've had the most failures from :-) > > I, too, have had these fail numerous times. Much more so than other SRAMs > or any DRAMs. The only ones that came close were from the same era: 4096 > DRAMs - I have them on some LSI-11 boards and inside a Z-80-based Gorf. > When I first got all the parts together to refurb a full-sized Gorf machine, > the internal tests showed a memory fault on one of the DRAM boards, covered > in 4096 chips. > > I use the LSI-11 CPU, a COMBOARD (for its memory mapping/DMA engine) and > a Fluke tester to check the 4K DRAMs - plug the COMBOARD on the Qbus, > put the test RAMs on the LSI-11 board, plug the Fluke emulator/tester > in the 68000 socket on the COMBOARD, fire it all up, hit the DMA enable > bit on the COMBOARD, then through the Fluke, test a range of 68K memory > that corresponds to the appropriate range of Qbus memory addresses and > voila - a 4096 tester with about $25K-new-cost worth of test gear. (The Qbus > COMBOARD memory map is divided into 4 regions, RAM, shared-memory, I/O and > ROM. There are 22 bits of 68K space available to map each and every Qbus > location into some valid local address. Who needs mapping registers! No > FUBAR on a Qbus!) > > The first COMBOARD used 2114 SRAMs because they were more reliable than > Intel's DRAMs of the day (plus the XC68000 would occasionally enter a > microcode fault and reset, causing Z-80-style bus-driven refresh mechanisms > to pause too long, letting all the bits leak out). > Since the MC68000 and its kin didn't have a Z-80-style bus-driven refresh mechanism, this must have been implemented in external hardware that was turned off when an exception was encountered, or it was done in software, which was apparently not used in the exception handler. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 6 22:53:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001901c10698$53f14140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That certainly holds out more promise or helping the energy problem than the two Texans do. Since the VP is a mite smarter than George-the-first's veep was, he serves as less of a threat to those who might consider doing something really radical ... BTW, who's the present Pres. pro-tem of the Senate? DC's power-assisted heart might not handle Dubya's passing, should the fates smile on us, doncha know. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:42 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy > > in Redmond. Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile > > in the oval office. Not > > What about those who tolerated the previous Bozo in Chief, Slick > Willie? Also, let's not forget how they also tolerated little Miz > "your healthcare is the governments business, not yours" Megalomania, > a.k.a. Hillary, who's rumored to have walked Slick Willie around the > nut^H^H^Hwhite house grounds on a leash while shouting "Heel little > willie!" > > We really need a better presidential candidate. My vote goes to Uncle > "I'll shoot them in the back with an elephant gun" Fester (remember > him from the Adams Family TV show?) . Just think of the great political > slogan he'd have: > > Fester, Fester, he's our man - if he can't do it, blasting > caps can! Go FESTER!" > > Just think, anyone who eats mercury-filled thermometers for a snack, > and can electrify light-bulbs by placing them in his mouth, can do > much more for this nation than most other recent presidents... like > solve the energy shortage! :-) :-) :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 6 22:57:03 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > optically. It had a car headlamp bulb and a row of > I can cofirm from practical experience that the Elliot optical _paper > tape_ reader uses a bulb that looks a lot like a car headlamp bulb. I > don't mean a sealed-beam unit, of course. A single-filament lamp about 1" > in diameter and 2" long, with a flange mounting and a single contact on > the end of the base. 48W IIRC. While I can't confirm that this card reader > used anything similar, I think it's possible. Yes, indeed. Two peoples separated by a common language. In the US, "headlamp bulb" MEANS "sealed beam". The US mandated sealed beams. At the time, it was as hard to get a non-sealed beam headlamp as it was to find an acetylene lamp (which would be as likely to be what was referred to when saying "headlamp".) Once found, a non-sealed beam bulb would be a fine choice for such a device. BTW, relatively recently non-sealed beam halogen units became legal, finally. > In the UK, the typical taillight bulb is 5W. It's often part of a > twin-filament bulb, 5W tail light, 21W brake light. > There's also a single-filament 21W bulb used for the turn signal. That's > the bulb that was commonly used in later optical paper tape readers in > the UK. In the US, in typical sloppiness of language, the automotive parts industry lumps together under the heading "taillight": brake light, turn signal, backup light, and RUNNING light (which is what y'all more accurately call "taillight".) Even the FRONT turn signal bulbs are grouped as "taillights". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Fri Jul 6 23:30:33 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 References: Message-ID: <3B469069.390B4861@pacbell.net> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > In the US, in typical sloppiness of language, the automotive parts > industry lumps together under the heading "taillight": brake light, turn > signal, backup light, and RUNNING light (which is what y'all more > accurately call "taillight".) > Well, I suppose it isn't too surprising since some of the functions are lumped together as well ... I have lived in the US for 15 years but I still can't get used to the way that the US auto industry insists on using the brake lights as the rear turn signals ... From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 6 23:13:52 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010706090546.009ba210@ubanproductions.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20010705191906.00996380@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706211329.00a87ec0@mail.zipcon.net> have you cleaned the corona wire, and does this happen with a different toner cart? At 09:05 AM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, the smears seem to be independent of what I print. The image is >there, but covered in places by non-uniform "smears" of black. Yes, >they appear on the test page (there is only one) as well. Also, the >smears are fused to the paper... > >--tom > > >OK, can you describe these smears a bit more? Are the independant of what > >you're trying to print (text .vs. graphics, for example). Do they occur > >on the formatter test page (the one where it prints out the fonts, etc). > >Do they occur on the engine test page (if you can produce one) -- the one > >with vertical lines only on it? > > > >I'm wondering if the engine is actually alright, and the problem is > >actually due to memory errors on the formatter board (or the logic that > >transfers the bitmap from the memory to the laser). > > > >-tony > > > > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 6 23:51:08 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010706211329.00a87ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: Having the smears adhered means he has a good fuser anyway. It can be a bad wiper on the toner (as I'm sure you're implying) or the transfer corona (not likely if theyre non-uniform) or even excess toner floating around inside, independant of the toner cart. Also try adjusting the print density as the toner may be allowing too much toner out and it's dropping sporatically on the paper. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Reed -> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 11:14 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: LaserJet IIP (was Re: Ancient LaserJet-3 question) -> -> -> have you cleaned the corona wire, and does this happen with a different -> toner cart? -> -> At 09:05 AM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote: -> >Yes, the smears seem to be independent of what I print. The image is -> >there, but covered in places by non-uniform "smears" of black. Yes, -> >they appear on the test page (there is only one) as well. Also, the -> >smears are fused to the paper... -> > -> >--tom -> > -> > >OK, can you describe these smears a bit more? Are the -> independant of what -> > >you're trying to print (text .vs. graphics, for example). Do -> they occur -> > >on the formatter test page (the one where it prints out the -> fonts, etc). -> > >Do they occur on the engine test page (if you can produce -> one) -- the one -> > >with vertical lines only on it? -> > > -> > >I'm wondering if the engine is actually alright, and the problem is -> > >actually due to memory errors on the formatter board (or the -> logic that -> > >transfers the bitmap from the memory to the laser). -> > > -> > >-tony -> > > -> > > -> > > -> From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 7 00:06:25 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at's message of "Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:34:58 +0200" References: Message-ID: <200107070506.f6756Pr24819@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... Yes, it likely would be. What are you trying to discover? Austria is a ways away from where I am, but I have some of the manuals handy and some a little less handy (in storage). There are two or three other people on the list with these systems too. -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 6 23:41:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706101417.00ab2960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > FWIW in the last election, some precients here in Florida had > more than a 97% turnout. My person opinion, if someone is too lazy to > register and/or vote I don't want them voting anyway. In the last > election, the democrats realized that they were in trouble here in > Florida and they issued a last minute plea for more "mininories" to > get out and vote at the last minute. That's what lead to a lot of the > voter confusion and un-counted votes. Many of those last minute > voters had never registered and most of them didn't even know that > they had to go to a voting place IN THEIR OWN DISTRICT. They simply > went to the first voting palce that they found and DEMANDED to vote. > Of course, they were turned away and told that they had to vote in > their own district but since they hadn't bothered to even find out > were that was they ran out of time before they could vote. Bringing this sort of on topic (barely) I recently found some voting equipment in a local electronics surplus ship that made it's way all the way from Dade County, Florida :) One was a punch for punching selections on a ballot, and the other seemed to be some sort of electronic bar code type device, or perhaps just a simple light-gun and photo-diode implement. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 00:43:27 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <000d01c10697$34e473e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707054327.76990.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The first COMBOARD used 2114 SRAMs because they were more reliable than > > Intel's DRAMs of the day (plus the XC68000 would occasionally enter a > > microcode fault and reset, causing Z-80-style bus-driven refresh mechanisms > > to pause too long, letting all the bits leak out). > > > Since the MC68000 and its kin didn't have a Z-80-style bus-driven refresh > mechanism, this must have been implemented in external hardware that was > turned > off when an exception was encountered, or it was done in software, which was > apparently not used in the exception handler. This is slightly before my time, but I was told that the earliest 68000 designs that used DRAMS, used a derivative of the Z-80 scheme because the designers of the time were used to it. I didn't mean to imply that the 68K had some kind of magical in-built DRAM refresh support. The microcode faults I was told about for the XC68000 (not MC68000) would lock things up tight for dozens of clock cycles, then go right back at it, as it nothing ever happened. It was strictly internal to the CPU and caused by bugs in the first run. Your software never knew what hit it unless it was checking timings against an external clock. By the time I personally touched a 68000, these kinks were long worked out (except for knowing that one needs to put low-ohmage resistors (30-60 Ohms) in series with the refresh lines from a DRAM controller when attempting to refresh several dozen DRAMs (4164s in this case). I chuckled when I saw those same resistors in the front memory cartridge of an Amiga 1000. They at least got them in there by the time their production started. I added hundreds of 68 Ohm resistors to the first production run of COMBOARD-II rev 0s. Once one of those came back from the soldering house, I think it took 3 hours of bench time to apply all the ECOs. Good thing they were already expensive. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 6 23:44:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards In-Reply-To: <000701c1062a$f99e78b0$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Mike wrote: > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg Um, a more common than butt-cracks disk controller and a too blurry to tell what it is board but looks like it also might be a third-party disk controller or maybe a printer interface. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 6 23:45:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards In-Reply-To: <001601c1062b$9bc93620$10db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Mike wrote: > 1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg Printer interface? > 2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg ? > 3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg See last message... ? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 00:49:55 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Ancient VAX software jackpot! Message-ID: <20010707054955.35625.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> I was moving some boxes in the basement tonight and found something that was recently mentioned on the list - TU-58s of VMS 3.2 through VMS 3.5! I also found my 4.2BSD tapes, and at least one System III tape for the 11/780 along with plenty of Ultrix tapes, Ultrix 32M (on RX-50 for MicroVAX-I) and MicroVMS 4.2. The basement is, as one would expect of a midwestern basement, not bone dry. Some of the tapes show traces of white mold on the edges. I will be, therefore, attempting to read these tapes forthwith. My only functioning 1600 bpi tape drive is presently a TU-80. I could go to a friend's house and try to use his SCSI magtape if that made sense. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 01:00:38 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions Message-ID: <20010707060038.12191.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Now that I have found a missing box of TU-58s, I plan to back them up for archival and emulation purposes. The easiest TU-58 drive I have access to is from an 11/730 (I have a VT-103 in storage, but the other drive is already out). Being as old as it is, the pinch rollers have turned to goo, naturally. Can someone give me a tip on what size Tygon tubing people have been using for replacement rollers? Is this something I can find at a Home Despot or do I have to go to an aquarium shop? Do you clean off all the residue from the aluminum hub, or do you just pull the goo off and put the Tygon right on? Is there an online listing of the jumpers on the TU-58 logic board? I want to make sure it's strapped to something useful. Looking at the internal power cable, Red could be +5 and Orange could be +12V, but does anyone know for sure? I plan to make an adapter cable and power the drive off of a PC floppy power plug. What's good software to make a physical block-for-block backup of a TU-58 tape? I don't care if it's UNIX or Winblows, I can do either. Are there any magical things that have to be done with the data cable, or can I just make sure gnd, pin 2 and pin 3 go through? Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program cover VMS 3.x? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From CELang at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 7 01:03:10 2001 From: CELang at worldnet.att.net (CELang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards Message-ID: <032a01c106ab$f1a23bc0$c2874b0c@oemcomputer> One looks like a printer card... That Fourth Dinemsion card sure looks familiar. I think a friend had one. I'll ask him when I see him next. Instinct says it's an 80 column card, but I'm really just guessing. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Mike To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: please help ID a few Apple ][ boards >Hi, > >sorry for the false start... Anyone recognize these guys? (each shot also >has a floppy controller for scale) > >1. card with a buncha empty sockets, one eprom labled 'Tymac Controls Corp' > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsb.jpg > >2. Fourth Dimension Board 2 > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsc.jpg > >3. SSM Microcomputer APPIC > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/A2cardsd.jpg > >Thanks! >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > > > From CELang at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 7 01:10:20 2001 From: CELang at worldnet.att.net (CELang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Space War? Message-ID: <033f01c106ab$fa3f20e0$c2874b0c@oemcomputer> The sum total of my knowledge on this is an article in Creative Computing magazine (Aug 1981, Vol 7, No 8) by J. Martin Graetz, one of the guys who wrote it. I see someone has already posted the URL: http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/ That's what got me to dig out the old article the other night. Graetz mentioned in the article that "Spacewar!" was ported to almost any machine of the day that had a scope. I don't know about being the "first game", but as far as arcade type game... I think it could lay a serious claim. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Bob Shannon To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, July 05, 2001 7:37 PM Subject: Space War? >As I understand it, the first video game ever was space war, written at MIT. > >Does anyone here know anything about a port of space war for the HP2115? > >Many years ago I purchased a 2115 from the MIT equipment exchange. Paper >lables on the front panel suggest that the machine at one time played space >war. > >I've kept the core unlatered, but the idea of reverse engineering whatever >code >may (or may not) be stored in core seems impractical. The machine had all its > >I/O boards removed before I got to it. > >I'm tempted to simply ignore the original contents of the core at this point, >and >load something interesting for VCF East, but before I alter it, I'd like to >ask if >anyone has heard of space war running on old HP mini's? > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 01:44:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <033f01c106ab$fa3f20e0$c2874b0c@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706234333.022b3a60@209.185.79.193> As I understand it the Computer Museum History Center brought up SpaceWar on a PDP-1 to demonstrate it before some patent attorneys who used it as 'prior art' to invalidate some video game patents. --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 01:53:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing >the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them >ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this >to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional >brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many >problems for innocent people. Great scifi book, Title: Oath of Fealty, Authors: Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle Basically all about the willingness to trade video privacy, for near absolute security (hey, it works in the book). I LIKE cameras, and they will become more and more popular as the cost of a camera and associated data transmission continues to drop. My only great concern is that drug related crime, mostly addicts stealing to get a fix, is not compressible. Many forces combine together to keep the flow of drug related cash going at the same level or higher, and that meanseffective measures don't tend to stop crime, just to shift it, and so far each shift is to actually worse crimes. Car theft shifts to carjacking, home invasion increases, all the really nasty stuff instead of fairly benign property theft. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 02:16:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) References: <20010707054327.76990.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003d01c106b4$cc5e5a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 11:43 PM Subject: Re: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > The first COMBOARD used 2114 SRAMs because they were more reliable than > > This is slightly before my time, but I was told that the earliest 68000 > designs that used DRAMS, used a derivative of the Z-80 scheme because > the designers of the time were used to it. I didn't mean to imply that > the 68K had some kind of magical in-built DRAM refresh support. > It would have been difficult for them to do, since the CPU didn't have that capability. The Z80 had a hardware refresh cycle built into its operating circuitry. It had a refresh counter (though only 7 bits) which was placed on the address bus while the CPU decoded an opcode. > > The microcode faults I was told about for the XC68000 (not MC68000) would > The XC68000 was the designator for the earliest units, primarily engineering samples of the various masks, though mine, (1978-79) from an early mask design later obsoleted, were marked with the MC68000 designation and a mask number. One of these had bus timing spec's that allowed it to operate at speeds exceeding those of later masks at nearly twice the clock rate. > > lock things up tight for dozens of clock cycles, then go right back at it, > as it nothing ever happened. It was strictly internal to the CPU and caused > by bugs in the first run. Your software never knew what hit it unless it > was checking timings against an external clock. > Anything's possible, but MOT didn't publish anything about this feature in the various engineering notes the published to characterize the various masks they produced. Since the original plans were to use the MC68K with cache, support for DRAM refresh would probably have gotten in the way. Within months of the release of the 68K, 64K DRAMs that worked as fast as the MC68K could digest the data became available, and, as the decision had been made to abandon the masks with timing capable of exceeding the timing for those devices, cacheless DRAM-based memory systems could be designed to run at full speed. > By the time I personally touched a 68000, these kinks were long worked out > (except for knowing that one needs to put low-ohmage resistors (30-60 Ohms) > in series with the refresh lines from a DRAM controller when attempting > to refresh several dozen DRAMs (4164s in this case). I chuckled when I > saw those same resistors in the front memory cartridge of an Amiga 1000. > They at least got them in there by the time their production started. I > added hundreds of 68 Ohm resistors to the first production run of COMBOARD-II > rev 0s. Once one of those came back from the soldering house, I think it > took 3 hours of bench time to apply all the ECOs. Good thing they were > already expensive. > > -ethan > > > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 02:26:41 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Mac on a Sparq In-Reply-To: <200107070506.f6756Pr24819@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at's message of "Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:34:58 +0200" Message-ID: http://www.jagshouse.com/sales.html I just bought the mac environment for the HP series 700, but looks like nobody has taken the Sparq version yet. Apple Macintosh Application Environment - for HP Series 700 workstations running HP - UX 9.0x - CD ROM. run Mac apps on your Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 Apple Macintosh Application Environment - for SunSparc stations running Slaris 2.3 or later - CD ROM . run Mac apps on your Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 I mention it on the list in hopes that somebody here might buy it and send me a copy of the CD. ;) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 02:12:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: <49.d8b18f9.2877db9a@aol.com> Message-ID: >well not really, but its a holy grail to me. I traded one of my tandy 102s to >get an apple //c+ and finally got it today. Now I have every apple // model >now. it's a pretty neat machine. I think it might replace the computer I use I sure like them, and have maybe half a dozen IIc+. BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... (the search doesn't end) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 03:06:42 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Rare mac stuff. In-Reply-To: <004001c10569$a0fb1900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: This from http://www.jagshouse.com/sales.html sorry for the double post, but I forgot to mail this more complete message and have been wondering why nobody was talking about it. (First item is already mine) Apple Macintosh Application Environment (from Apple Computer Inc)- for HP Series 700 workstations running HP - UX 9.0x - CD ROM. run Mac apps on your Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 Apple Macintosh Application Environment(from Apple Computer Inc) - for SunSparc stations running Slaris 2.3 or later - CD ROM . run Mac apps on your Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 Apple Peripheral Interface Guide - Apple II, II, Lisa, MacXL, Macintosh Up to Quadra Macs (1991) - Extremely rare for service techs eyes only! $20 From robwill2 at wxs.nl Sat Jul 7 03:29:35 2001 From: robwill2 at wxs.nl (robwill2@wxs.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: digital vax3300 Message-ID: <200107070828.DAA73028@opal.tseinc.com> Hi, Does anyone know where in the net I can see a picture of this computer?? Thanks, Robert robwill2@wxs.nl From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 7 04:04:20 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Rare mac stuff. In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 01:06:42AM -0700 References: <00ad01c10519$946a4bc0$a5b1b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <004001c10569$a0fb1900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707040420.D21901@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 01:06:42AM -0700, Mike Ford wrote: > Apple Macintosh Application Environment(from Apple > Computer Inc) - for SunSparc stations running Slaris > 2.3 or later - CD ROM . run Mac apps on your > Unix workstation (Virtual macinotsh) - includes > manual. EXTREMELY RARE!! $20 Extremely rare? Sun put it on the set of CDs they sold with every UltraSPARC machine. I've got at least 2-3 copies of it here... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com Sat Jul 7 06:42:19 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <20010707060038.12191.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 6, 2001 11:00:38 pm" Message-ID: <200107071142.f67BgKC00817@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com> > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > cover VMS 3.x? > > -ethan I think the license does... but the distributions started with 6.x I think. My VaxStation 3100 is on the way FedEx... anyone know what the earliest version of VAX/VMS for it is? I'd like to get a full copy of 3.6 or 4.2 to run... they were the last versions I used doing Field Service. The other thing I'd love to find is RTEM -- the RT11 Emulator. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com Sat Jul 7 06:52:50 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Ultrix Netscape? In-Reply-To: <522.588T1550T674719optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jul 7, 2001 01:07:31 am" Message-ID: <200107071152.f67Bqog00938@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com> > There has been quite a lot of talk on the NetBSD/pmax list about an elusive > version of Netscape for Ultrix. Has anyone ever seen such a beast? All > indications I get from a Google search is that there never was an Ultrix port, > but people on the list claim otherwise. Any Ultrix gurus around here who know? > There probably was one in the Navigator 0.9 - 1.0 days... It appears, though that there's nothing older than 3.04 on the FTP site anymore... I'll have to check my old CD's and see if there was an Ultrix version. Meanwhile... why not compile mozilla? Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From mwp at acm.org Sat Jul 7 07:53:10 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <001901c10698$53f14140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <007801c106e3$c6d0cc80$0800a8c0@zeus> If the Vice-President becomes President due to death or incapacitation of the President, then he nominates VP subject to congressional confirmation. The President pro tem of the Senate is after the Speaker of the House in the line of succession--this changed with the 25th amendment in 1967. The only way for the Speaker of the House to become President by succession is for both the President and Vice-President to be lost at the same time. Yes, I looked it up : 25th Amendment: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am25 U.S. Code Title III Section 19: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/3/19.html --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Erlacher" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > That certainly holds out more promise or helping the energy problem than the two > Texans do. Since the VP is a mite smarter than George-the-first's veep was, he > serves as less of a threat to those who might consider doing something really > radical ... BTW, who's the present Pres. pro-tem of the Senate? DC's > power-assisted heart might not handle Dubya's passing, should the fates smile on > us, doncha know. > > Dick From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jul 7 08:13:14 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We have an Atmos also. On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, John Honniball wrote: > > On 6 Jul 2001 0:17:23 +0100 Iggy Drougge > wrote: > > > Davison, Lee skrev: > > >Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos > > > > Does anyone here have an Atmos? > > Yes! > > > It's really an adorable design on the outside, > > with that black and red colour scheme. > > Indeed. I have one with a natty little cloth dust cover, > so it's in good condition. I have some manuals and > software, too. > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From west at tseinc.com Sat Jul 7 20:18:25 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: HP2000 Access status update References: Message-ID: <002501c1074b$e40d40e0$6e8953d1@jay> After a week of vacation dedicated almost entirely to getting an HP2000 Access machine operational, it's actually starting to get very close to coming together! Both 2100 processors pass diags, all the associated cards pass diags, the 7900A is humming along perfectly, and at long last the 7970E tape drive is working fine. I even got the 2000 Access IOP firmware installed into the IOP cpu. After years I'm now so close I can taste it! Here's whats still on the to-do/missing/dead list... I need four of the 12566 GRD TRU +/- boards for the processor interconnect kit. I had all four tested & running a few months ago, but at least one of the 12566 boards died - so, anyone have some 12566 boards they'll part with? I should need only 1, but 2 would make it easier to retest the remaining boards. Next, the main cpu needs 32Kw and the IOP needs 16kw, 24kw, or 32kw depending on the I/O configuration - I suspect I can get by with the 16kw setup because I'm not going to load the comms (RJE) software modules and will only have a 16 user system. I only have 32kw total because 4 of the 8kw core boards are dead, and one of the 16K ID boards is toast. I've done the testing with 16kw in each machine, but this won't let me load the O/S. I need two 8K core boards at a minimum, preferrably four plus a 16K ID board. The only board in the entire setup that hasn't been tested and proven to be working is the 12920/12921 asynchronous multiplexor (3 board set). I have two sets of these boards, but one I suspect from the outset isn't alive (the burned resistor on the card was a giveaway). With any luck, the other set will test ok, otherwise I need to locate another or repair them. It's not a requirement, but one thing that would be nice to have is the "HP 13206A 2000/Access communications processor firmware diagnostic". Once the OS is loaded, it would be pretty obvious if the firmware isn't working, but this is the one diagnostic I'm missing. The paper tape is 13206-16001, or if it's on different media the DSN is 101016. So there's the state of the 2000/Access project, I'll keep folks posted when it actually boots up the O/S (although you'll probably be able to hear the shouts of "woohoo!" from out of state). Regards, Jay West From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 08:29:37 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Old VMS (was Re: TU-58 questions) In-Reply-To: <200107071142.f67BgKC00817@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010707132937.50939.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > I'd like to get a full copy of 3.6 or 4.2 to run... they were the last > versions I used doing Field Service. I _might_ have 4.2 on magtape. I know I do not have 3.6. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 08:34:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <003d01c106b4$cc5e5a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707133433.51153.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > It would have been difficult for them to do, since the CPU didn't have that > capability. The Z80 had a hardware refresh cycle built into its operating > circuitry. It had a refresh counter (though only 7 bits) which was placed on > the address bus while the CPU decoded an opcode. I realize that. I think what I was being told about was a refresh system that depended on some line out of the CPU to tell when it was safe to do a refresh cycle. The CPU locks up temporarily and blocks the refresh accidentally until it recovers. > > > > The microcode faults I was told about for the XC68000 (not MC68000) would > > > The XC68000 was the designator for the earliest units, primarily engineering > samples of the various masks... Yes. My boss still has ours. It has a serial number (#424) engraved on the lid. We were told that the first 400 were for internal Motorola use. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 08:35:18 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010707133518.82345.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > I sure like them, and have maybe half a dozen IIc+. > > BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... (the > search doesn't end) Boards? I have a IIc+. Presuming this isn't a troll, where do the boards go? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 08:37:13 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706234333.022b3a60@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20010707133713.82397.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > As I understand it the Computer Museum History Center brought up SpaceWar > on a PDP-1 to demonstrate it before some patent attorneys who used it as > 'prior art' to invalidate some video game patents. I'm not sure about that, but it sounds like a derivative story of when Charlie Lasner did that on one of his old scope-equipped computers. He had the listings entered as evidence of when the program was written, then the court adjourned to his place in Queens to show that it was a real program and not just theoretical. The patents were overturned. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 08:46:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:24 2005 Subject: Amiga question In-Reply-To: <2493.588T900T2134785optimus@canit.se> References: <2493.588T900T2134785optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >We didn't have to modify the motherboard, just move some jumpers for clocks >and such, though we did have to saw a hole in the disk bay to accomodate the >fan, since the card had been overclocked. Took a whole day, and goes to prove >how cramped the A3000 is. >The '060 does a much better job at handling heat than the '040. In its >original 50 MHz state, it only had a small heatsink, whereas a small fan was >added when it was overclocked to 60 or 66 MHz. That's cool. I didn't realize that the '060 ran so much cooler than the '040. I may have a line on a MK II that's available myself, which is why I asked. I'll never try to put an A3640 in another A3000! The poor machine never worked quite right after that. >What INT2 mod, BTW? The mod to add the missing int2 interrupt line to the A3000's CPU slot. I guess it's only needed for the Cyberstorm's with SCSI controllers, like the MK III. It involves running a jumper wire from pin 21 on the CIA at U350 to pin 82 on the CPU slot, CN606. It's done from the bottom of the board, so the whole mainboard has to be removed. I've done that before to replace the clock battery and that takes a bit of work. Supposedly that interrupt line was left out because C= didn't want 3rd party vendors hanging I/O off of the CPU slot, but to use the ZorroIII bus instead and that's what the line is used for. Both the A2000 and A4000 have that interrupt on the CPU slot though. >Perhaps am I just spoiled by Amiga performance, but all my Mac activites under >emulation have been unbearably slow. Mind you, nowadays I think that my (68k) >Macs are just as slow. It's quite amazing to think that my Centris actually >runs at a higher clock speed than my A4000. At the time I was using Shapeshifter though I only had a Mac Plus and a Classic II, so it ran faster than either of them and it was also in color. Now my little Color Classic offers plenty of advantages over Shapeshifter, plus it's CPU has been upgraded to a 33mhz '040, so it's also faster than the A4000. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 7 08:50:44 2001 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: SDI cabling for Ra73 and UDA50 References: <002501c1074b$e40d40e0$6e8953d1@jay> Message-ID: <063a01c106eb$d1a335a0$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Sorry to repeat if this has been recently covered. I've got a VAX750 with UDA50 mscp controller that I'd like to run with an RA73. Can anyone point me to what cabling I'd need? Can I buy it or do I need to make a custom set? Also trying to track down a TU58 boot/diag tape for this unit to get it up and running online and into my DEC/Cray/PC museum... Regards, Heinz From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sat Jul 7 09:31:25 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: digital vax3300 Message-ID: <20010707143125.EE4F920F23@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-07-07 robwill2@wxs.nl said to classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Hi, >Does anyone know where in the net I can see a picture of >this computer?? >Thanks, >Robert I've got a MicroVAX 3300 in my living room, here it is: http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/lroom.html Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Jul 7 09:33:19 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512CD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > The former; these things are being bought up by Mac fans as > > part of the Mac's heritage. > > That's the only reason I'd have any interest in it. I remember playing > with a Lisa right about the time the 128K Mac showed up. My oldest Mac > is a 512Ke that my mother bought new, full-price as a 512K and paid to > upgrade (new ROMs, double-sided drive). My same exact experience... > I'm also a big Motorola 68K fan. One of my favorite jobs ever was hacking > COMBOARDs in assembly and C (8Mhz 68000 w/32K SRAM up to 2Mb DRAM). I'd worked with the IBM ARTIC card; it was 80186-based, but it would have been so much cooler and easier to program for had it been a 68k- based board. > > Honestly, in better times, I'd probably pay up to $250. These aren't > > those times... > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most of his > stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's asking $300. I > did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet adapters, complete with > docs, cables and software for $8, bare box only, $5. I want to turn an SE > or Plus into a localtalk gateway with that software from Apple's ftp site > that has been mentioned here once or twice. I've got one of those from another manufacturer; Nova or something similar. > I'll go back to the sale on Sunday and see what hasn't moved and offer the > guy about 20% of his asking prices on some stuff and see how bad he wants > to sell it. Sounds like a plan. Regards, -dq From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jul 7 09:48:39 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <3B472147.AF6E7D82@tiac.net> 2115 drams are 3 rail. 2114 srams are 5 volts only. 2104 drams are also 3 rail. Louis Schulman wrote: > I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's > invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. > > The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, > are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). > > A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic > ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 > chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. > > So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips > equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not > equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of > the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? > > A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and > selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). > > Thanks, Louis From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:05:20 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001901c1063a$2ce8ab00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's all in preparation for the day when there will be only one > punishment for all crime ... and I still favor the immersion in molten > iron for punishment. It would make a good show at halftime during the > superbowl. Tie 'em to a steel rail and lower 'em into the pot at > about 1" per second ... feet first, then tell the kids, "See? That's > what happens if you don't go to school. That's what happens if you > steal ... " We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old bastard. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:09:18 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate > of immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced > a death-wish as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. > by spitting on the sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of > people, with a written apology issued in the unlikely even that > someone unjustly punished complain because their rights have been > violated. It's got to be like violating a law, any law, is equivalent > to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. I've considered > that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten iron > be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass > murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the > chance to enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. Yes, Dick, I dream of the day when friends, family, and perfect strangers, will be put to death by immersion in molten iron for even spitting on the sidewalk. Then, our society will be safe, secure, and HAPPY!!! DICK FOR PRESIDENT!!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:13:54 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <20010706183323.79003.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have the chance to pick up a Lisa CPU unit only. It has a 3.5" > drive visible from the front, no cards visible from the outside > (couldn't open the back to look in), and does not come with keyboard > or mouse. On the back are a video out jack, two 25-pin serial > connections, a reset button and an interrupt button. The power switch > lights up and is next to the 1/4" keyboard jack. > > When I turn it on, the screen looks good and I can see it going > through its paces. It complains that there is no keyboard. I have no > idea how much one would cost, but I expect it's >$50. > > I do not know how to tell if has been "upgraded" to a Mac/XL or if it > is original. > > What's a good price for most of a Lisa? With no keyboard or mouse it's not of much use. And it's not the keyboard is easy to find either (any older Mac mouse will work). The fact that it boots means the cards are all there. $50 would be about the maximum I'd be willing to pay. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:15:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing > the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them > ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this > to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional > brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many > problems for innocent people. They should get guns and shoot them down! Oops, Englanders aren't allowed to own guns. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:22:03 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <20010706210924.30117.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet > adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box > only, $5. I want to turn an SE or Plus into a localtalk gateway with > that software from Apple's ftp site that has been mentioned here once > or twice. Well, since he's trying to go out of business, does he really want to go through the trouble of having to list this thing on eBay to get the $300 that he wants? If not then he should sell it to you for a far more reasonable $50. Without a keyboard or mouse (don't tell him a Mac mouse will work :) he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. He won't get substantially more than $50, and the trouble he would have to go through to get the money, pack it and ship it will make it not worth the effort. Try to diplomatically bring this to his attention and maybe he'll see it your way :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 09:27:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706204036.00aa60d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > Personally I'd like to see the competency tests brought back > and I'd like to see it written so that potential voters would have to > at least have some knowledge of the issues and candidates. But if we > did that there'd be Or we should force the news media to be more useful than reporting about what politician is fucking who and instead have segments on proper procedure for voting. The problem is ignorance, and the solution is education, not more ignorance. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jul 7 10:44:53 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 7, 1 07:22:03 am" Message-ID: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet > adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box > only, $5. Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Art is either plagiarism or revolution. -- Paul Gauguin -------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 10:48:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: <200107062354.TAA01581@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> <3B472147.AF6E7D82@tiac.net> Message-ID: <000a01c106fc$34ca8f60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have to disagree ... i2115's are open-drain versions of the tri-state i2125, and both of these are single-supply 1k x 1 SRAMs. If you plug a 2115 into a 2116/2117 application, you'll quickly become aware of the differences since the single-supply 2115's Vcc will be at gnd, and its gnd will be at +12, its nCS will be at -5, and the A5 input will be connected to +5. I would expect the package to pop within less than 10 seconds. I did verify this information from the 1987 Intel Memory Components Handbook. 16K DRAMs were no longer of interest, and, since Intel actually never manufactured them anyway, simply packaging someone else's parts with their brand label, there was no need for them to include the 3-rail 4116-equivalents in their databook. Intel did take a stab at selling (I don't know whether they attempted to build them themselves.) Single rail 16-K DRAMs, the 2118's, which were also touted as the fastest DRAMs on the market at that time. With the rapidly approaching availability of the 4164's, this was a stepping stone to the larger memory arrays that were of great appeal to the users of the new 16-bit CPU's, allowing board makers to design boards with single supplies. However, the Intel DRAM controllers of the 16K era, i.e. the i3242/i3480 combination, didn't deal with mulitiplexing 16 bits of address, so would-be designers of 64K DRAM-compatible memory boards had either to wait for the new generation of DRAM controllers, or to design their own multiplexing/refresh-address-generation logic from TTL SSI/MSI, or perhaps PALs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:48 AM Subject: Re: 2116 and other old memory chips > 2115 drams are 3 rail. > > 2114 srams are 5 volts only. > > 2104 drams are also 3 rail. > > Louis Schulman wrote: > > > I am in the process of attempting to repair, with Pete Turnbull's > > invaluable guidance, an Exidy Sorcerer. > > > > The manual recites that the memory chips, depending on configuration, > > are 2104 (4k) or 2116 (16k). > > > > A casual perusal of chip sources shows that most begin their dynamic > > ram sections with 4116 chips. The only mention I have found of 2116 > > chips is in a reference to the original IMSAI memory board. > > > > So, my questions are: Are 2116 chips 3-rail? Are 4116 chips > > equivalent? Does anyone have a source for 2116 chips, if they are not > > equivalent? What about 2114 static ram (used in the video section of > > the Exidy)? Same problems? Were they all three rail? > > > > A general lecture on the nature of old memory chips and their use and > > selection would be very helpful (hint to Tony Duell). > > > > Thanks, Louis > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 10:50:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001001c106fc$911544e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Hey! Remember that age is a fate that awaits us all. I guarantee you, though, that if this approach to punishment were adopted, folks would behave differently. Maybe even you ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:05 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's all in preparation for the day when there will be only one > > punishment for all crime ... and I still favor the immersion in molten > > iron for punishment. It would make a good show at halftime during the > > superbowl. Tie 'em to a steel rail and lower 'em into the pot at > > about 1" per second ... feet first, then tell the kids, "See? That's > > what happens if you don't go to school. That's what happens if you > > steal ... " > > We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old > bastard. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 7 10:45:43 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Space War? In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis's message of "Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:44:36 -0700" References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706234333.022b3a60@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <200107071545.f67Fjhs45452@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Chuck McManis wrote: > As I understand it the Computer Museum History Center brought up SpaceWar > on a PDP-1 to demonstrate it before some patent attorneys who used it as > 'prior art' to invalidate some video game patents. IIRC, TCM's PDP-1 failed to power up at some time while still at TCM in Boston. (Early-mid 1990s?) It is now at Moffett Field, and there is (or was recently) interest in restoring it to functionality. -Frank McConnell From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 10:53:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001601c106fc$efb18b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Keep in mind, my boy, that there are advocates for ZERO POPULATION out there. Not zero population growth, but ZERO POPULATION. Think about how much better that would make the world. None of man's damaging effects on the planet would be continued, though the effects would probably persist for about 100 millenia. Probably not a bad idea if you're a frog. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: OT: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate > > of immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced > > a death-wish as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. > > by spitting on the sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of > > people, with a written apology issued in the unlikely even that > > someone unjustly punished complain because their rights have been > > violated. It's got to be like violating a law, any law, is equivalent > > to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. I've considered > > that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten iron > > be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass > > murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the > > chance to enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. > > Yes, Dick, I dream of the day when friends, family, and perfect strangers, > will be put to death by immersion in molten iron for even spitting on the > sidewalk. Then, our society will be safe, secure, and HAPPY!!! > > DICK FOR PRESIDENT!!! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 10:03:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... > (the search doesn't end) Like? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 11:04:51 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <002a01c106fe$8e524260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's like recommending that a 120 TTon nuke on TelAviv or Damascus as a solution to middle-east strife. It would solve a number of problems. The bones of contention there, including the bulk of the world's oil supply would be essentially gone, (everything from Tehran to well past Cairo, including parts of Turkey, etc, would be under about a km of glass), thereby reducing the air pollution attributable to petroleum use, and it wouldn't be safe to go there for a couple of thousand years, so folks lucky enough to survive here on Earth would probably forget about that stuff. It's possible someone might come up with a solution more compatible with the interests of the folks who are central to the mid-east struggle, however, but this would certainly end the fighting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing > > the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them > > ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this > > to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional > > brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many > > problems for innocent people. > > They should get guns and shoot them down! Oops, Englanders aren't allowed > to own guns. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 10:14:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001001c106fc$911544e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Hey! Remember that age is a fate that awaits us all. I guarantee Yes, but some of us will fare it better than others. > you, though, that if this approach to punishment were adopted, folks > would behave differently. Maybe even you ... Yeah, we'd all be reduced to sitting at home and spewing forth obnoxious missives about how our fellow man should be immersed in molten iron for spitting on the sidewalk. Get some Viagra, dude. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 10:20:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001601c106fc$efb18b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Keep in mind, my boy, that there are advocates for ZERO POPULATION out > there. Not zero population growth, but ZERO POPULATION. Think about > how much better that would make the world. None of man's damaging > effects on the planet would be continued, though the effects would > probably persist for about 100 millenia. Probably not a bad idea if > you're a frog. Well, my decrepit old fool, I'd like to point out that some people advocate the euthanization of old people who complain too much about stupid shit. But as annoying as you are, I still wouldn't want to see you meet such a fate, despite the fact that you above anyone else deserve it for advocating similar atrocities. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 7 11:37:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Mannesmann Tally printer Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707123512.00a1b130@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone have a manual for the MannesMann Tally MT 730 MobileWriter printer? I picked up a pile of them at a hamfest and they look like nice little printers but I have no instructions for them what so ever. Joe From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Jul 7 11:40:47 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: <82.cb51fc0.2878958f@aol.com> WTF? can we get back on topic here? this is stupid. anyway, in my attempt to bring this back ontopic, I found a compaq portable II. other than the floppy drives, is there any difference between the II and III models? In a message dated 7/7/01 12:12:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick@idcomm.com writes: << It's like recommending that a 120 TTon nuke on TelAviv or Damascus as a solution to middle-east strife. It would solve a number of problems. The bones of contention there, including the bulk of the world's oil supply would be essentially gone, (everything from Tehran to well past Cairo, including parts of Turkey, etc, would be under about a km of glass), thereby reducing the air pollution attributable to petroleum use, and it wouldn't be safe to go there for a couple of thousand years, so folks lucky enough to survive here on Earth would probably forget about that stuff. It's possible someone might come up with a solution more compatible with the interests of the folks who are central to the mid-east struggle, however, but this would certainly end the fighting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing > > the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them > > ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this > > to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional > > brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many > > problems for innocent people. > > They should get guns and shoot them down! Oops, Englanders aren't allowed > to own guns. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > >> -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 12:07:29 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jul 07, 2001 08:44:53 AM Message-ID: <200107071707.f67H7TD02233@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > > asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet > > adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box > > only, $5. > > Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for > a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! You are in luck, then, as I have at least one (possibly two) of these that I used to use with my PowerBook 100. If you're interested I'll try to dig them up this weekend. The PB100 is available, too, if you collect Mac stuff. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 7 12:08:09 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old > bastard. HARRUMPH! Talk like that could get you written out of my will. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Jul 7 12:36:18 2001 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? References: <200107071707.f67H7TD02233@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <0d0401c1070b$54ae7a80$b523010a@dbnh> How much do you want for your PB100? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: Re: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > > > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > > > asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet > > > adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box > > > only, $5. > > > > Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for > > a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! > > You are in luck, then, as I have at least one (possibly two) of these > that I used to use with my PowerBook 100. If you're interested I'll > try to dig them up this weekend. > > The PB100 is available, too, if you collect Mac stuff. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 11:55:15 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old > > bastard. > > HARRUMPH! > Talk like that could get you written out of my will. Well, you can be curmudgeonly, but you're certainly not a bastard ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 7 13:24:31 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <82.cb51fc0.2878958f@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707142049.00aa9d70@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:40 PM 7/7/01 -0400, you wrote: >WTF? can we get back on topic here? this is stupid. anyway, in my attempt to >bring this back ontopic, I found a compaq portable II. other than the floppy >drives, is there any difference between the II and III models? Oh yeah, big difference. The II is a re[packages P I and is only sluightly smaller than a P 1. It still has the CRT. The P!!! is much smaller, uses a 286 CPU and has a gas plasma screen. Joe >In a message dated 7/7/01 12:12:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick@idcomm.com >writes: > ><< It's like recommending that a 120 TTon nuke on TelAviv or Damascus as a >solution > to middle-east strife. It would solve a number of problems. The bones of > contention there, including the bulk of the world's oil supply would be > essentially gone, (everything from Tehran to well past Cairo, including >parts of > Turkey, etc, would be under about a km of glass), thereby reducing the air > pollution attributable to petroleum use, and it wouldn't be safe to go > there >for > a couple of thousand years, so folks lucky enough to survive here on Earth >would > probably forget about that stuff. > > It's possible someone might come up with a solution more compatible with the > interests of the folks who are central to the mid-east struggle, > however, but > this would certainly end the fighting. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:15 AM > Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > > > Why aren't the citizens in the U.K. up in arms over this and bashing > > > the cameras with rocks and doing other things to render them > > > ineffective? Why aren't effigies of the politicians who caused this > > > to happen being burned in the streets? Anyone with a few functional > > > brain cells should realize that such a system can easily cause many > > > problems for innocent people. > > > > They should get guns and shoot them down! Oops, Englanders aren't allowed > > to own guns. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > > > > > >> > > >-- >DB Young Team OS/2 > >old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: >www.nothingtodo.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 13:40:53 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 7, 1 07:22:03 am" Message-ID: >> No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most >> of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's >> asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet >> adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box >> only, $5. > >Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for >a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! They aren't rare, I am sure you had one in your hand last time you were here. Asante EN SC, but I wouldn't use one for a SE/30 unless there was a good reason why I couldn't use an internal card. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 13:00:38 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Need manual for DCS FDK2 floppy controller Message-ID: I need the documentation for a Distributed Computer Systems FDK2 8" floppy disk controller (multi-bus). Might anyone here have this? If so, please reply to me directly. Thanks!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 12:02:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No complaints about stupid shit, but about stupid shits like you, Sellam Ismail. All I've said in this thread is that people should obey the law. If they don't like it, they can endeavor, within the law, to change it to something they like, but if they disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't want to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the planet. Making it hurt a little is to keep people from thinking it's a cheap way to commit suicide. Clearly, you can't see the sense of this, but that's for reasons you've amply demostrated in the past. (It's sad when cousins marry ... It's not your fault ... You ARE the fault.) You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be killed for speeding, even if you only did it once, you wouldn't speed. You know you'd be killed for stepping off a cliff, and you don't do that. The fact remains that if laws were different, people would behave differently. BTW ... ask an adult what a FOO is, as in "Hey, FOO..." Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: OT: Re: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Keep in mind, my boy, that there are advocates for ZERO POPULATION out > > there. Not zero population growth, but ZERO POPULATION. Think about > > how much better that would make the world. None of man's damaging > > effects on the planet would be continued, though the effects would > > probably persist for about 100 millenia. Probably not a bad idea if > > you're a frog. > > Well, my decrepit old fool, I'd like to point out that some people > advocate the euthanization of old people who complain too much about > stupid shit. > > But as annoying as you are, I still wouldn't want to see you meet such a > fate, despite the fact that you above anyone else deserve it for > advocating similar atrocities. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 7 14:38:09 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706110439.00a18740@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B476521.52325F9B@idirect.com> >Mike Ford wrote: > My only great concern is that drug related crime, mostly addicts stealing > to get a fix, is not compressible. Many forces combine together to keep the > flow of drug related cash going at the same level or higher, and that > meanseffective measures don't tend to stop crime, just to shift it, and so > far each shift is to actually worse crimes. Car theft shifts to carjacking, > home invasion increases, all the really nasty stuff instead of fairly > benign property theft. Jerome Fine replies: Before anyone suggests any additional solutions to stop "criminal activity", I suggest that a very detailed study be made of how the US handled prohibition and its subsequent abolition. From how I understand prohibition was handled, the first step was to concede that it was impossible to enforce. After that, everything else was probably mishandled - as politicians are apt to do - and the end result was a lot of unemployed criminals (bootleggers) who had made a lot of money and had built up an infrastructure that needed to be used - to make more money for the ex-bootleggers. Maybe similar to what happened in Russia after the collapse in 1990. I also think that there is a strong link between the lack of social justice within so-called democracies and the number of people who commit crimes. So that while the link between the lack of social justice in a dictatorship and the number of people who commit crimes is easier to understand and see in a dictatorship (either the left like communism or the right like fascism), I suggest that countries which have a higher than average crime rate (and therefore more people in jail on average than other countries) should look at their priorities. A repressive and less fare criminal justice system (especially in Canada for the poor, blacks and native North Americans and in the US for the poor and racial minorities - I get the impression that there are no longer enough native North Americans in the US to cause a problem any longer - I have not mentioned any other countries that are so-called democracies since I don't know enough about the local conditions) is definitely a substitute for spending on social justice (access to health care in the US is just one example), but I wonder if supporting a non-productive prison population is more effective than providing a minimum of health care? And while the above observations are very simplistic, I also see the same attitudes reflected in the activities that Microsoft practices that were found to be illegal. I don't know which is worse? Illegal activity by the government, by companies or by individuals? I do suggest that in many cases, like with drug problems referred to above in the US, any attempt to suppress just the symptoms rather than the cause is likely going to fail. Any even with a program that is providing a vital service, such as with health care - who is checking to see if the service is carefully and safely delivered? Are there any test cases fed into the system (blind tests would be absolutely necessary) to determine how effective the system is being run? For example, do the police ever have to account for having made errors in how they handle a case or a nurse ever have to account for patient care or a doctor on treatment options. A 1% to 2% blind test case load for every institution to determine the extent to which errors are made should be mandatory in my opinion just as we have checksums on EVERY disk block so that we can determine if any errors are taking place. If we can checksum every disk block and insist on error rates of less than 1 in a trillion, why should a hospital be allowed to refuse to audit all care and accept blind tests for a minimum of at least 1% ot their case load? Likewise, lab tests, police, welfare offices, vets, politicians, lawyers, programmers, etc. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 14:56:55 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar Message-ID: Saw a post from 7/6 on the PS/2 newsgroup and have sent a message to him. If anyone else is looking for him try this email address: sridhar@cloud9.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/6e2daa4f/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 7 13:17:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: <200107070104.VAA14289@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jul 6, 1 09:04:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1555 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/5990aedf/attachment.ksh From vcf at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 14:05:05 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: OT: Old radio gear available...cheap? Message-ID: I'm working on retrieving a large haul of Osborne stuff from the wife of a former Osborne engineer who passed away earlier this year. Among his stuff is included the following radio gear, and I was wondering if anyone here was interested in any of it. The lady lives a good 4-5 hours from me and I plan to make the trip sometime in the next couple of weekends. I can bring back whatever radio gear anyone expresses an interest in and have it shipped out to them. I don't know what the lady wants for this stuff, so include an offer. She justs wants it to be out of her garage as she is moving, so any reasonable offer will probably be fine. Because of the long drive and my shortage of time these days, I'll want 1.5 * shipping for my trouble on top of your offer. The descriptions are terse so if you have any questions about any of the gear, let me know and I'll try to get answers for you. I don't think she will be able to answer any heavily technical questions. Here is what's available: Navy ships transmitter/receiver put in service in 1944 made by Stromberg in England Navy amplifier same era WWII Tank Receiver/transmitter made by Weston Navy Signal corp freq meter with last calibration manual 8' Altec cabinet with tube type modules I have no idea what this stuff is beyond what the descriptions say. Please get questions to me within the next couple days so I can send them out to her all at once. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 7 13:34:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <000d01c10697$34e473e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 6, 1 09:45:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1678 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/930b3b11/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 7 13:43:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 6, 1 08:57:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/94da4be9/attachment.ksh From ernestls at home.com Sat Jul 7 15:18:38 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Who is he, and why are you trying to find this guy? Ernest -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 12:57 PM To: Classic computers message group Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar Saw a post from 7/6 on the PS/2 newsgroup and have sent a message to him. If anyone else is looking for him try this email address: sridhar@cloud9.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/54f1e0f0/attachment.html From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 7 17:12:54 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> - - - - - "if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't want to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the planet." - - - - - Sorry, I can't let a statement like this be made without dissent. (1) I can't expect an enforceable perfection from others, and (2) see no need to make any penalties not match the crimes involved. This is the modern equivalent of 'Eye for an Eye'. - - - - - "Clearly, you can't see the sense of this" - - - - - Yup, me too. - - - - - "You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be killed for speeding" - - - - - If you're talking about death for speeding and the like, then I believe the people would toss law enforcement altogether and start over. John A. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 7 18:13:29 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <770.589T1450T134587optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most >> of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's >> asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet >> adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box >> only, $5. >Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for >a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! Aren't they as common as dirt? There are lots of them at my local electronicws surplus shop, and they often show up in auctions. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 7 18:17:51 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My network took a major power dump. I am back now. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Saw a post from 7/6 on the PS/2 newsgroup and have sent a message to him. If > anyone else is looking for him try this email address: > > sridhar@cloud9.net > From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 7 18:20:18 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is that also why static RAM is so much faster? Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > This answers most of my questions, thanks. One further question. What > > is the difference between "static" ram and "dynamic" ram, since both > > are "volatile" ram? Or, putting it another way, what is "static" about > > "static" ram, since it changes as well? > > OK... > > Static RAM is made from flip-flops. Which means that when you write data > to it, you set some flip flops one way (for '1's) and some the other way > (for '0's). And the flip-flops remain in that state until either you turn > the power off or you write some other data to it. > > Dynamic RAM is made from capacitors. Generally, a '1' is represented by a > charge on a capacitor, a '0' is a discharged capacitor. Writing data to > DRAM involves charging some capacitors and discharging others. > > The problem is that all electronics has leakages. So the capacitors > discharge themselves (in a few milliseconds). So you have to read each > location periodically and write the data back again to 'refresh' the > charge on the capacitors. Most (all?) DRAMs have internal circuitry to > help with this (e.g. accessing a particular location will refresh a > number of locations -- perhaps all those with the same pattern in the > high-order half of the address). But you still have to do something -- on > 'classic' DRAMs, you have to cycle the address inputs and apply RAS/ > pulses (or at least that's the normal way). If you don't, you lose data. > > That's the difference. The contents of static RAM are maintained as long > as power is applied. Dynamic RAM needs to be refreshed or it will forget. > > -tony > From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 7 18:20:59 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: He is me. He posts here every once in a while 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Ernest wrote: > Who is he, and why are you trying to find this guy? > > Ernest > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 12:57 PM > To: Classic computers message group > Subject: may have found our friend shridar ayengar > > > Saw a post from 7/6 on the PS/2 newsgroup and have sent a message to him. > If anyone else is looking for him try this email address: > > sridhar@cloud9.net > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 7 18:24:08 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Card readers (was: IBM 604 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Ah, that explains it. I think it's safe to say that no paper tape or card > reader ever used a sealed-beam headlamp :-) That's exactly what I meant. Anybody have personal experience on the issue of "read twice; badly read cards physically removed from deck"? > > device. BTW, relatively recently non-sealed beam halogen units became > > legal, finally. > They've been around in the UK for at least 20 years, and probably longer. I was using them in the US 30 years ago. Illegally. Does that mean that emperor Dick will have me executed? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 18:12:31 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >"if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't >want > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the >planet." A bit of irony to that statement being made relative to July 4th, the celebration of our refusal to obey English law. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 7 18:24:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: <770.589T1450T134587optimus@canit.se> References: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >>> asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet >>> adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box >>> only, $5. > >>Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for >>a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! > >Aren't they as common as dirt? There are lots of them at my local electronicws >surplus shop, and they often show up in auctions. These boxes work with any mac that has a SCSI port, but the primary use was with the early powerbooks that lacked both expansion and ethernet. As those early powerbooks were surplussed, so were the EN SC boxes, which means tons a few years ago, and now barely a trickle. Selling them has gone a bit backwards, as most with powerbooks that could use them have them, but plenty of compact mac users want them so they don't have to open up their macs to install one of the ethernet cards. From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jul 7 18:43:04 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: <006e01c0b403$d9cbd650$b7799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Repost of message for Ethan... On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > >> > There is out there a TU-58 emulator for PeeCee... > > > There is one that runs under UNIX. > > Also the rollers for the TU58 I clean off the goo to get down to the > basic hub then use .500 od/.375 id Tygon tubing. which is a stretch > fit over the hub, add a drop of super glue and trim to width as > diameter is not critical and that material seems to hit it very close. > I've done this to maybe 8 them I still use. > > Allison > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 18:48:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:25 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: References: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >plenty of compact mac users want them so they don't have to open up their >macs to install one of the ethernet cards. At least with the Color Classic you don't have to open up the case itself...just the small access cover on the rear that allows the mainboard to be pulled out enough to insert a PDS card in t he loan PDS slot. I dread the thought of opening the case of one of the earlier ones, such as the Plus, though most people likely wouldn't for anything other than a RAM upgrade. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jul 7 18:46:50 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <20010707060038.12191.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ethan, I built some magic cables and plug the bare drive & board into a PC to dump the tapes. If you are interested, I'll dig up the source to the DOS program I used... I also have the TU58 tech manual, so I can post the jumpers if needed. I'd do it now, but Nascar is starting and I need to pour myself a coke :) Clint PS This message posted in memory of Dale Earnhardt, who lost his life in the last turn of the 2001 Daytona 500. On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Now that I have found a missing box of TU-58s, I plan to back them up > for archival and emulation purposes. The easiest TU-58 drive I have > access to is from an 11/730 (I have a VT-103 in storage, but the other > drive is already out). Being as old as it is, the pinch rollers have > turned to goo, naturally. > > Can someone give me a tip on what size Tygon tubing people have been > using for replacement rollers? Is this something I can find at a > Home Despot or do I have to go to an aquarium shop? Do you clean off > all the residue from the aluminum hub, or do you just pull the goo off > and put the Tygon right on? > > Is there an online listing of the jumpers on the TU-58 logic board? I > want to make sure it's strapped to something useful. Looking at the > internal power cable, Red could be +5 and Orange could be +12V, but > does anyone know for sure? I plan to make an adapter cable and power > the drive off of a PC floppy power plug. > > What's good software to make a physical block-for-block backup of a > TU-58 tape? I don't care if it's UNIX or Winblows, I can do either. > > Are there any magical things that have to be done with the data cable, or > can I just make sure gnd, pin 2 and pin 3 go through? > > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > cover VMS 3.x? > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 19:00:49 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! Message-ID: I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 COPYRIGHT 1986 DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION What is it? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 7 19:20:25 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707201718.00ab0dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone have the technical manual for the Navtel SuperTest 25 RS-232 breakout box? I need to know how to make it act like as a DCE. It's a green metal box that's about 3 x 3"inches and about 9" tall. Joe From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 19:31:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) References: Message-ID: <001901c10745$4d220ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> While 2114's weren't the only common I/O SRAMs, they were the first in really broad usage. I'd guess that the reason for so many problems associated with them was that it took a while for people to figure out how to use common I/O devices in fairly tightly timed circuits such as shared video refresh memory in a microprocessor-based system. The timing looked quite simple, but between setup and hold time restrictions and the correct timing of the nWE line, it was pretty easy for folks to get into contention problems. I suspect that was a pretty significant factor in the frequency of malfunction with these devices. They were really popular in video games, many of which weren't terribly well designed, since that would have run up their cost. They were popular, though, because they took up less space than an equvalent number of 2102's, which had separate data in and out. As for failures, I don't remember lots of trouble with them. I suspect that they were easier to use, and hence, less prone to misuse, in systems with a single write line rather than a write and a read, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) > > While I don't dispute Tony's experience, mine has been somewhat different. I've > > My comments (about the unreliability of 2114s) are not based on a real > scientific survey. It's just that I have had an excessive number of 2114s > fail. The most recent case was an HP82163 HPIL video interface. It was > working a few months back, I tried it again and got some garbled > characters. Writing to one position on the screen would sometimes cause > another character elswehere on the screen to be changed. > > It looked like an addressing error for the top 4 bits of video memory. > There was a pattern to the corruption -- the corrupted character would > have the bottom 4 bits left alone, but the top 4 bits sent to the same > states as those for the character you'd just written. > > It was either a very obscure fault in the HP-custom video chip, or a > video RAM playing up. The video RAMs were 1K*4 devices, 18pin DIL, with > HP numbers. But they were really 2114s. I changed one of them (for once I > picked the right one first time), and the unit worked again. > > It's got to the point, I am afraid, where if I see a board with 2114s on > it, and the fault could well be RAM-related, then I test an/or change the > 2114s. > > I have had other RAM fail. A DEC LA324 where all the SRAM chips (I think > it's 2 32K*8 and 1 8K*8 one) failed at once. And I've had the odd 4116 or > 4164 die. But they seem to be more reliable than 2114s... > > > If one uses only 1000 or so part per week, one doesn't get a complete picture of > > the real failure rates of memory devices, if you test 40 boards at a time, each > > Very true. > > However, I'll still suspect 2114s if the fault can be memory-related :-) > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 19:45:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > - - - - - > "if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't > want > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the > planet." > - - - - - > Sorry, I can't let a statement like this be made without dissent. > (1) I can't expect an enforceable perfection from others, and It's the notion of intent that's the problem. You can't measure that, however, so it's the act that's got to be the determining factor. > (2) see no need to make any penalties not match the crimes > involved. This is the modern equivalent of 'Eye for an Eye'. > That's the other side of the coin. If you adhere to the slippery slope notion, then you recognize that if one is mildly punished for stealing a grape, but severely punished for stealing a pig, it's easy to make the transition. If one's killed for either, it makes no difference, since it will only have to be dealt with once. Just ask yourself, "What would it take to make me (meaning YOU) adhere to all the laws all the time?" Adhering to the laws is far from perfection, since the laws aren't perfect. Laws are the minimal conduct needed from every citizen in order to have a liveable society. If you don't care to live in a society with a given set of laws, you should leave. If there's no place on the planet where there are laws that suit you, then you should go elsewhere. The laws define the minimal acceptable behavior within a given society. If you don't want to adhere to those minimae, then you should be ejaculated from the society. Surely there's someplace that will tolerate your behavior, but others, those willing to behave within the legal standards, shouldn't have to tolerate your antisocial and extralegal behavior. If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the system. In the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. Part of effecting change involves work and suffering, the rest is waiting. You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish than you repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them. If you KNEW for certain that someone else would take it upon himself to punish you by some equally illegal act, and any illegal act is equally illegal, you might not behave as you do. > > - - - - - > "Clearly, you can't see the sense of this" > - - - - - > Yup, me too. > > > - - - - - > "You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be > killed > for speeding" > - - - - - > If you're talking about death for speeding and the like, then I believe the > people > would toss law enforcement altogether and start over. > > > John A. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 19:53:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: 2116 and other old memory chips References: Message-ID: <002f01c10748$6e878720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> SRAMs were smaller in size, and simpler in architecture, though the elemental memory structures were larger. The fast SRAMs were built for access time, at the cost of power, mostly, aside from the die size. DRAMs were built for capacity (number of bits) and density (pounds of silicon per bit) which translated into cost. Slower SRAMs were built for simplicity of operation, as there was always a market for devices that could be applied without a large hardware overhead. DRAMs were built for the applications that justified a larger overhead since there was a demand for large memory size in a limited power, space and cost budget. SRAMs in small arrays were much cheaper as well as being simpler. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 5:20 PM Subject: Re: 2116 and other old memory chips > > Is that also why static RAM is so much faster? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > This answers most of my questions, thanks. One further question. What > > > is the difference between "static" ram and "dynamic" ram, since both > > > are "volatile" ram? Or, putting it another way, what is "static" about > > > "static" ram, since it changes as well? > > > > OK... > > > > Static RAM is made from flip-flops. Which means that when you write data > > to it, you set some flip flops one way (for '1's) and some the other way > > (for '0's). And the flip-flops remain in that state until either you turn > > the power off or you write some other data to it. > > > > Dynamic RAM is made from capacitors. Generally, a '1' is represented by a > > charge on a capacitor, a '0' is a discharged capacitor. Writing data to > > DRAM involves charging some capacitors and discharging others. > > > > The problem is that all electronics has leakages. So the capacitors > > discharge themselves (in a few milliseconds). So you have to read each > > location periodically and write the data back again to 'refresh' the > > charge on the capacitors. Most (all?) DRAMs have internal circuitry to > > help with this (e.g. accessing a particular location will refresh a > > number of locations -- perhaps all those with the same pattern in the > > high-order half of the address). But you still have to do something -- on > > 'classic' DRAMs, you have to cycle the address inputs and apply RAS/ > > pulses (or at least that's the normal way). If you don't, you lose data. > > > > That's the difference. The contents of static RAM are maintained as long > > as power is applied. Dynamic RAM needs to be refreshed or it will forget. > > > > -tony > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 20:01:31 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how things ought rightly to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, then leave that society and join or build another. The means by which this is done vary widely, and if you think that it's appropriate, for example, that, say, pot smokers, a substantial share of the criminal element in the U.S, have what it takes to (1) go elsewhere and start over, or (2) overthrow, presumably with violence, the existing system, then they should have at it, taking their chances as they go. What's wrong is for them simply to thumb their noses at the law and the society that established those laws, still reaping all the benefits, yet violating the basic social contract. After all, the Americans' distaste for English social standards, whether it was for the British unwarranted taxes or British disdain for the working stiff, was what "impelled them to the separation" in the words of one of the perpetrators. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > >"if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't > >want > > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the > >planet." > > A bit of irony to that statement being made relative to July 4th, the > celebration of our refusal to obey English law. > > > From spc at conman.org Sat Jul 7 20:27:50 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 07, 2001 06:45:40 PM Message-ID: <200107080127.VAA26887@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > If you don't care to live in a society with a > given set of laws, you should leave. If there's no place on the planet where > there are laws that suit you, then you should go elsewhere. Um, Richard ... if there is no place on the planet where there are laws that suit you, where can you go? It's not like there's cheap (or even moderately expensive) flights to say, the moon, or Mars. Fact is, there *IS* no place left on this planet to go in such a case. And US$20,000,000.00 will only get you to orbit. > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the system. In the > meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. Part of > effecting change involves work and suffering, the rest is waiting. Tell that to Rosa Parks. > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish than you > repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them. > If you KNEW for certain that someone else would take it upon himself to punish > you by some equally illegal act, and any illegal act is equally illegal, you > might not behave as you do. ``The more laws a society has, the more corrupt it is.'' An old quote, I forget who said it, but it was said during the Roman Empire I believe (or about the Roman Empire). Do *YOU* know all the laws of the Federal, State and local governments of where you live? I certainly hope so. Idaho state law makes it illegal for a man to give his sweetheart a box of candy weighing less than fifty pounds. In Denver it is unlawful to lend your vacuum cleaner to your next-door neighbor. In Devon, Connecticut, it is unlawful to walk backwards after sunset. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, it is against the law to open a soda bottle without the supervision of a licensed engineer. New Hampshire law forbids you to tap your feet, nod your head, or in any way keep time to the music in a tavern, restaurant, or cafe. Texas law forbids anyone to have a pair of pliers in his possession. The Arkansas legislature passed a law that states that the Arkansas River can rise no higher than to the Main Street bridge in Little Rock. Frankfort, Kentucky, makes it against the law to shoot off a policeman's tie. The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. Now, to at least get this somewhat back on topic: Should Microsoft be killed for breaking Lotus under MS-DOS 2.0? -spc (Even Bill Gates has been arrested, don't 'cha know?) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 20:31:53 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> I thought that if I put a VCB-02 into my VAX that DEC$WINDOWS would automatically start up when it booted (when it recognized the console was a frame buffer). Unfortunately that is not the case. What is the secret here? Does anyone reading need a VCB-02 ? (less cab kit and cables?) --Chuck (who is working his way through his Q-bus board stash) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 20:40:44 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Decserver 700 question Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707183930.00ab0e40@209.185.79.193> Does anyone know how to telnet to the DEC server 700 and then connect through it to one of the serial ports? I can connect to it with the default password, then I get the Local> prompt and can't figure out how to connect me to port7 which is currently hooked to the console of a VAX... --Chuck From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 7 20:36:23 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! (y) References: Message-ID: <002701c1074e$65e78600$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Man, you sure aint got neighbors like my neighbors. John A. Zane said: I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: From ecloud at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 20:38:25 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:01:31PM -0600 References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707183825.F1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> And those folks were darn lucky that there was a big bunch of land available which hadn't been claimed by modern governments yet. Now these conditions largely don't exist anymore. The settling of the New World could only be done once; thank goodness it turned out as well as it did (for everyone but the natives, at least...) I think a lot of people forget this when they compare things in the US to things in other countries, or things now to things then. It was a unique time and place, and there was a huge advantage to being a young, fresh, new society with so much unclaimed land. Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:01:31PM -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how things ought rightly > to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, then leave that > society and join or build another. The means by which this is done vary widely, > and if you think that it's appropriate, for example, that, say, pot smokers, a > substantial share of the criminal element in the U.S, have what it takes to (1) > go elsewhere and start over, or (2) overthrow, presumably with violence, the > existing system, then they should have at it, taking their chances as they go. > What's wrong is for them simply to thumb their noses at the law and the society > that established those laws, still reaping all the benefits, yet violating the > basic social contract. > > After all, the Americans' distaste for English social standards, whether it was > for the British unwarranted taxes or British disdain for the working stiff, was > what "impelled them to the separation" in the words of one of the perpetrators. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 7 21:12:09 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1108.589T450T1923915optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>plenty of compact mac users want them so they don't have to open up their >>macs to install one of the ethernet cards. > At least with the Color Classic you don't have to open up the >case itself...just the small access cover on the rear that allows the >mainboard to be pulled out enough to insert a PDS card in t he loan >PDS slot. I dread the thought of opening the case of one of the >earlier ones, such as the Plus, though most people likely wouldn't >for anything other than a RAM upgrade. Apart from the apparent danger of electrocution and shattered CRTs, opening up compact Macs isn't too bad. You don't even need any particular tools, contrary to popular belief. Just a nice flat screwdriver, preferably a long one, perhaps with the additional aid of a pinch... clamp... argh, what's the English word for such a tool? The one for pinching and clamping? =) These are the worst case Macs, and they still aren't any worse than your bog- standard PC, assuming you've got the right screwdriver. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jul 7 20:55:19 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, and have a license for it. Clint On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I thought that if I put a VCB-02 into my VAX that DEC$WINDOWS would > automatically start up when it booted (when it recognized the console was a > frame buffer). Unfortunately that is not the case. What is the secret here? > Does anyone reading need a VCB-02 ? (less cab kit and cables?) > > --Chuck > (who is working his way through his Q-bus board stash) > > > From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 7 20:59:18 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <004101c10751$994eaca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> - - - - - "in the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. " - - - - - Smells pretty musty. But seriously, should, not must, is what the citizenry of the US seems to live by, and parking tickets and other small fines are the cost of... Expressing ones free opinions in this way. - - - - - "others, ...repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them." - - - - - Just the price of being an adult, I believe. - - - - - "...any illegal act is equally illegal, ..." - - - - - You might not be be getting anywhere with this. IE What??? John A. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 21:18:19 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> At 07:55 PM 7/7/01 -0600, Clint wrote: >You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, >and have a license for it. Hmmm, well I did tell it to install DECWindows when it installed VMS, I didn't see an option for VWS. Of course at the time the VCB-02 wasn't installed so maybe it would have tailored it off the distribution. Hmmm, --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 21:22:17 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! (y) In-Reply-To: <002701c1074e$65e78600$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: >Zane said: >>I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which >>aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: > >Man, you sure aint got neighbors like my neighbors. > >John A. Well, I'll admit we were friends before we were neighbors. Look at it this way, how many Apartment complexes have two OpenVMS clusters! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 21:23:50 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: >At 07:55 PM 7/7/01 -0600, Clint wrote: >>You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, >>and have a license for it. > >Hmmm, well I did tell it to install DECWindows when it installed VMS, I >didn't see an option for VWS. Of course at the time the VCB-02 wasn't >installed so maybe it would have tailored it off the distribution. Hmmm, >--Chuck What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 21:34:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 07, 2001 07:18:19 PM Message-ID: <200107080234.f682Y2503787@narnia.int.dittman.net> > At 07:55 PM 7/7/01 -0600, Clint wrote: > >You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, > >and have a license for it. > > Hmmm, well I did tell it to install DECWindows when it installed VMS, I > didn't see an option for VWS. Of course at the time the VCB-02 wasn't > installed so maybe it would have tailored it off the distribution. Hmmm, You don't need to install VWS to use DECwindows, but depending on the version you have to install DECwindows Motif. The DECwindows files installed on the later version are just the OS support files. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 21:39:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Decserver 700 question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707183930.00ab0e40@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 07, 2001 06:40:44 PM Message-ID: <200107080239.f682d1q03845@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Does anyone know how to telnet to the DEC server 700 and then connect > through it to one of the serial ports? I can connect to it with the default > password, then I get the Local> prompt and can't figure out how to connect > me to port7 which is currently hooked to the console of a VAX... You need to set up the TELNET LISTENER on the port, then you can just telnet DECSERVERIP 2000+port to get directly to the port. In your case, the telnet port number would be 2007. Here are the commands: CHANGE TELNET LISTENER 2007 PORT 7 ENABLED CHANGE TELNET LISTENER 2007 CONNECTIONS ENABLED CHANGE PORT 7 ACCESS DYNAMIC (or REMOTE) After that, just telnet DECSERVERIP 2007 and you are connected to the console. Use ^] to escape back to the telnet> prompt so you can disconnect. I do this with a DECserver 90M and DECserver 700. The manual for the DECserver 700 is on www.dnpg.com. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 21:40:27 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 07, 2001 05:00:49 PM Message-ID: <200107080240.f682eRJ03860@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which > aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: > > AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 > MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 > COPYRIGHT 1986 > DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION > > What is it? My guess would be the VMS Windowing System for MicroVMS. My other guess is you've got a good neighbor. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 7 21:47:22 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707194623.02595eb0@209.185.79.193> At 07:23 PM 7/7/01 -0700, Zane wrote: >What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to >running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. Well a 7.2 hobbyist release. I've restarted an install with the VCB-02 installed, should be interesting to see how it works... --Chuck From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 21:43:54 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 07, 2001 07:23:50 PM Message-ID: <200107080243.f682hs403879@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >At 07:55 PM 7/7/01 -0600, Clint wrote: > >>You have to install VMS (and VWS) with the VCB-02 installed, > >>and have a license for it. > > > >Hmmm, well I did tell it to install DECWindows when it installed VMS, I > >didn't see an option for VWS. Of course at the time the VCB-02 wasn't > >installed so maybe it would have tailored it off the distribution. Hmmm, > >--Chuck > > What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to > running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. I've run a MicroVAX II with both a VCB01 and VCB02 (not at the same time, but I think that actually was supported; the VCB01 is no longer supported in current versions of VMS). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 21:56:54 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707194623.02595eb0@209.185.79.193> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707191527.02a111a0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010707182952.029b0e20@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: >At 07:23 PM 7/7/01 -0700, Zane wrote: >>What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to >>running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. > >Well a 7.2 hobbyist release. I've restarted an install with the VCB-02 >installed, should be interesting to see how it works... > >--Chuck OK, as Eric pointed out what you're going to need is DECwindows and Motif. VWS was discontinued with V6, IIRC. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 7 22:00:59 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: DEC$WINDOWS and VCB-02 .. In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707194623.02595eb0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 07, 2001 07:47:22 PM Message-ID: <200107080300.f6830xV03996@narnia.int.dittman.net> > At 07:23 PM 7/7/01 -0700, Zane wrote: > >What version of VMS are you running? Warning, I've never gotten around to > >running DECwindows on a Q-Bus system. > > Well a 7.2 hobbyist release. I've restarted an install with the VCB-02 > installed, should be interesting to see how it works... With V7.2 you'll need to install DECwindows Motif (DWMOTIF_*). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sat Jul 7 22:26:00 2001 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: <1108.589T450T1923915optimus@canit.se> References: <1108.589T450T1923915optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >You don't even need any particular tools, contrary >to popular belief. Just a nice flat screwdriver, preferably a long one, Actually, you do need a nice long Torx-15. Gotta be skinny to get the screws underneath the handle on top. You don't really need one of these cracker deals, I've never had a problem gently pulling back and forth on the case to get it loose, although something to pry with that won't mar the case is always handy and gets things going a little faster. Glad I have an EN-SC, though. Don't have the network setup yet, but I've got everything I need except the Cat5 cable. I think the Mac drivers are still online. Hope I still have mine around... -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 22:38:55 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how things ought rightly > to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, then leave that > society and join or build another. There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. I have assumed the risk. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 22:54:16 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips Message-ID: In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 card. The ones in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 pin (10 pins each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with them - and if so how much? Please email direct. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/af4cd9f2/attachment.html From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 7 23:03:01 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: <200107080240.f682eRJ03860@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which > > aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: > > > > AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 > > MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 > > COPYRIGHT 1986 > > DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION > > > > What is it? > > My guess would be the VMS Windowing System for MicroVMS. Shucks! I was hoping for a port of Wordstar v3.0 to VMS :) - don > My other guess is you've got a good neighbor. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 23:05:09 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have since found that these are 256k x 4 dram and any suitable substitute will do. They'll be going into a Dell 4066/XE server. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:54 PM To: Classic computers message group Subject: Need DRAM chips In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 card. The ones in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 pin (10 pins each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with them - and if so how much? Please email direct. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010707/c7a31222/attachment.html From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 7 19:16:11 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708041211.HKHY216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: "Classic computers message group" > Subject: Need DRAM chips > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 card. The ones > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 pin (10 pins > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with them - and if > so how much? > Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad different in specs. Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 7 23:14:33 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be >prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, >but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. >I have assumed the risk. That's called person responsibility, and with the way lawyers have made everyone believe that they are the victim, it's a rare thing to see. I do the same thing though...if I'm doing something like speeding it's because I conciously decided to and if I'm stopped for it, I'll pay the price for doing so. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Jul 7 23:14:55 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: OT: Old radio gear available...cheap? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The descriptions are terse so if you have any questions about any of the > gear, let me know and I'll try to get answers for you. I don't think she > will be able to answer any heavily technical questions. > > Here is what's available: > > Navy ships transmitter/receiver put in service in 1944 made by Stromberg > in England > Navy amplifier same era > WWII Tank Receiver/transmitter made by Weston > Navy Signal corp freq meter with last calibration manual > 8' Altec cabinet with tube type modules The best bet is to have her get the information off the datatags. In the realm of military electronics collectibles, this means *everything*. The Navy stuff will generally have a rather verbose tags, and the Signal Corps (Army) tags will have less. I have many directories and could look up the stuff. Incidently, if the Altec stuff is tubed, it is probably worth a fairly good amount of money. The "tube type modules" may be input transformers, and if they are good, they are _definitely_ not junk. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 23:22:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <200107080127.VAA26887@conman.org> Message-ID: <000b01c10765$8ffb7fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What you say is true, and I'm glad I don't have to reckon with it! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > > > If you don't care to live in a society with a > > given set of laws, you should leave. If there's no place on the planet where > > there are laws that suit you, then you should go elsewhere. > > Um, Richard ... if there is no place on the planet where there are laws > that suit you, where can you go? It's not like there's cheap (or even > moderately expensive) flights to say, the moon, or Mars. Fact is, there > *IS* no place left on this planet to go in such a case. > > And US$20,000,000.00 will only get you to orbit. > > > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the system. In the > > meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. Part of > > effecting change involves work and suffering, the rest is waiting. > > Tell that to Rosa Parks. > > > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish than you > > repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them. > > If you KNEW for certain that someone else would take it upon himself to punish > > you by some equally illegal act, and any illegal act is equally illegal, you > > might not behave as you do. > > ``The more laws a society has, the more corrupt it is.'' An old quote, I > forget who said it, but it was said during the Roman Empire I believe (or > about the Roman Empire). Do *YOU* know all the laws of the Federal, State > and local governments of where you live? I certainly hope so. > > Idaho state law makes it illegal for a man to give his sweetheart a > box of candy weighing less than fifty pounds. > > In Denver it is unlawful to lend your vacuum cleaner to your > next-door neighbor. > > In Devon, Connecticut, it is unlawful to walk backwards after > sunset. > > In Tulsa, Oklahoma, it is against the law to open a soda bottle > without the supervision of a licensed engineer. > > New Hampshire law forbids you to tap your feet, nod your head, or in > any way keep time to the music in a tavern, restaurant, or cafe. > > Texas law forbids anyone to have a pair of pliers in his possession. > > The Arkansas legislature passed a law that states that the Arkansas > River can rise no higher than to the Main Street bridge in Little > Rock. > > Frankfort, Kentucky, makes it against the law to shoot off a > policeman's tie. > > The state law of Pennsylvania prohibits singing in the bathtub. > > Now, to at least get this somewhat back on topic: Should Microsoft be > killed for breaking Lotus under MS-DOS 2.0? > > -spc (Even Bill Gates has been arrested, don't 'cha know?) > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 23:26:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20010707183825.F1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <001301c10766$2124c100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, yes, they were quite lucky. In the meantime, the first thing that has to go is any tolerance of unwillingness to make the necessary choices. There are places one could go. It's just that this particular society has made things so easy for people simply to ingore, and even thumb their noses at the laws, social contract, and associated rights of others, that they're too coddled to go where they wouldn't offend anyone by their behavior. That's why I suggest more radical ways of dealing with them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > And those folks were darn lucky that there was a big bunch of land available > which hadn't been claimed by modern governments yet. Now these conditions > largely don't exist anymore. The settling of the New World could only be > done once; thank goodness it turned out as well as it did (for everyone but > the natives, at least...) I think a lot of people forget this when they > compare things in the US to things in other countries, or things now to > things then. It was a unique time and place, and there was a huge > advantage to being a young, fresh, new society with so much unclaimed land. > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any future > revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems of revolutions > in older established countries, say, France or Russia; that of trying to > cast off the old ways and being unable to really completely start over, > because the past is always there to haunt you. > > On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:01:31PM -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how things ought rightly > > to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, then leave that > > society and join or build another. The means by which this is done vary widely, > > and if you think that it's appropriate, for example, that, say, pot smokers, a > > substantial share of the criminal element in the U.S, have what it takes to (1) > > go elsewhere and start over, or (2) overthrow, presumably with violence, the > > existing system, then they should have at it, taking their chances as they go. > > What's wrong is for them simply to thumb their noses at the law and the society > > that established those laws, still reaping all the benefits, yet violating the > > basic social contract. > > > > After all, the Americans' distaste for English social standards, whether it was > > for the British unwarranted taxes or British disdain for the working stiff, was > > what "impelled them to the separation" in the words of one of the perpetrators. > > -- > _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com > (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org > __) | | \________________________________________________________________ > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 7 23:39:00 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: <20010708041211.HKHY216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: The chips on the mainboard are probably different in that they are a smaller profile but here's what they have on them: .. KOREA ... 326Y ... KM44C256J-6 .. There are 4 of them soldered to the board, and they give the S3 section 512K RAM with 256 color capability. The soldered chips are 20 pin but each side has two sets of 5 pins with a space between them unlike the bare sockets that are a symmetrical 10 on each side and longer than the soldered on ones. 4 chips are supposed to brig it to 1mb and allow more color and (I hope) higher resolution without a color loss). It's a 1993 486DX2-66 server so that might give you an idea. I know it's not quite a classic (10 yr old) yet but it's close enough and I know the people here know more than most in the chip level stuff. I have no idea what the symbol made up of dots is, I've been out of the component level field too long and my "memory banks" are toast right now after a couple beers (been landscaping in the hot sun all day and it's time to relax) -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca -> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:16 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips -> -> -> > From: "Russ Blakeman" -> > To: "Classic computers message group" -> -> > Subject: Need DRAM chips -> > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 -> > Importance: Normal -> > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> -> > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 -> card. The ones -> > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 -> pin (10 pins -> > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with -> them - and if -> > so how much? -> > -> -> Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? -> There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad -> different in specs. -> -> Cheers, -> -> Wizard From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 7 23:53:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004101c10751$994eaca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001b01c10769$ef770600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Unfortunately, the slippery slope has led to where it is not "should" but "SHALL," is more like it, with a not so swift and horribly painful end imposed immediately on accusation, with an apology for any inadvertent error, provided posthumously, of course. The "should" came from a time when we didn't have to live so close together that one guy firing his gun in his living room could affect anyone else, and, even then, folks were routinely hung when suspected of one foul deed or another. Today we have far too many people, and far too few of them willing to live up to their own expectations of others. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > - - - - - > "in the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. " > - - - - - > Smells pretty musty. > But seriously, should, not must, is what the citizenry of the US seems > to live by, and parking tickets and other small fines are the cost of... > Expressing ones free opinions in this way. > So, you feel that YOU have the right to disobey laws as YOU see fit? Surely you don't extend that privilege to just anyone? You find it inconvenient to leave the handicap-designated parking space available for someone fitting in the intended category, hence you disregard the associated statute, right? Well, by the same right, shouldn't I be casually forgiven for putting a couple of rounds into your right ear, right? All I've really done in that case is discharge a firearm into a public nuissance, right? > > - - - - - > "others, ...repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal > behavior irritates them." > - - - - - > Just the price of being an adult, I believe. > Then why do you expect them to pay it when you routinely refuse? Aren't you an adult? > > - - - - - > "...any illegal act is equally illegal, ..." > - - - - - > You might not be be getting anywhere with this. IE What??? > I don't need to get anywhere. I obey the laws, but I don't tolerate those who don't. There are ways ... > > John A. > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 7 23:56:46 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: References: <200107080240.f682eRJ03860@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > >> > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which >> > aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: >> > >> > AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 >> > MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 >> > COPYRIGHT 1986 >> > DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION >> > >> > What is it? >> >> My guess would be the VMS Windowing System for MicroVMS. > >Shucks! I was hoping for a port of Wordstar v3.0 to VMS :) Hadn't really considered either of those, I was hopeing for something more like MicroVMS/WorkStation, but that didn't really make sense (as far as I know MicroVMS started with V4.x). Somehow I suspect VMS Windowing System is it. As for the WordStar, I don't think that ever made it to VMS, though WordPerfect did. The closest the pile of tapes came was DECwrite, and VAX Document. Somehow I've found TeX to be the best solution on VMS, it's nice and portable, and you can work on it from a VT100 if you want. >> My other guess is you've got a good neighbor. Yep, over the years I've gotten some cool stuff from him. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 00:04:39 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002501c1076b$7e260300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, one should pay the penalty, but I'm advocating that the penalty for violating the law, any law, should be the same, since it is the casual disregard of the law that's bringing about the current wave of disorder, not the nature of the ways in which the law is broken. The purpose of the penalty should be, and, in some cases, is, (1) to ensure that others are deterred from committing the same offense, and (2) to ensure that the perpetrator never, under any circumstances commits that offense again. Only one penalty can accomplish that, and that's what I'm advocating. more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > Not at all, sir! In fact it's a good illustration of how > things ought rightly > > to be. If you don't want to obey the laws of one society, > then leave that > > society and join or build another. > > There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be > prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, > but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. > I have assumed the risk. > Actually, there should probably be two penalties, both the same, really, but one, immediate immersion in molten iron, which is relatively swift and painless, and the other, the same process, but carefully executed at about one inch per minute, feet first, during halftime at the SuperBowl, for those who intentionally thumb their noses at the law and do what they know they shouldn't in spite of the law, so that their expression of remorse can be an example to others. > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:07:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: OT: Re: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > No complaints about stupid shit, but about stupid shits like you, > Sellam Ismail. All I've said in this thread is that people should obey > the law. If they don't like it, they can endeavor, within the law, to > change it to something they like, but if they disobey the law, that's > prima fasciae evidence that they don't want to be part of the society, > hence, that they need to be removed from the planet. Making it hurt a > little is to keep people from thinking it's a cheap way to commit > suicide. This boils down to you being a fucking facist and obnoxious prick about silly little shit. It would be one thing if you were joking about putting people to death for spitting on a sidewalk or cursing in public or itching their ass in plain view of a woman or whatever, but I really think you are fucked up enough to be serious. Your idea of justice and morality, I assure you, is not shared by many other people, at least not people with any sort of sense. If you think it would be appropriate to dole out harsh sentences for meaningless actions such as spitting on a sidewalk, or maybe getting or giving a blowjob (which is technically illegal in a few states), then you are one seriously fucked up individual and you need to move to some country that is more compatible with your point of view, like Afghanistan or Iran. Go someplace where your silly-assed views won't run up against any opposition. You'll be much happier, and won't have to criticize assholes like me for being so damn liberal. > You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be > killed for speeding, even if you only did it once, you wouldn't speed. > You know you'd be killed for stepping off a cliff, and you don't do > that. The fact remains that if laws were different, people would > behave differently. Thank god people like you will be dead soon. > BTW ... ask an adult what a FOO is, as in "Hey, FOO..." I hope it means "big brown smelly turd", because that's what I want to be to you. The big brown smelly turd that will annoy and insult you until the day you finally succumb to some terrible disease. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:11:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >"if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't > >want > > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the > >planet." > > A bit of irony to that statement being made relative to July 4th, the > celebration of our refusal to obey English law. We're talking, after all, about a guy named "Dick", who obviously doesn't understand the ferociously offensive implications of what he is advocating, let alone the irony. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ecloud at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 8 00:13:27 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001b01c10769$ef770600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 10:53:30PM -0600 References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004101c10751$994eaca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <001b01c10769$ef770600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010707221327.H1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 10:53:30PM -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The "should" came from a time when we didn't have to live so close together that > one guy firing his gun in his living room could affect anyone else, and, even > then, folks were routinely hung when suspected of one foul deed or another. Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what are we going to do about it? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:21:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > laws aren't perfect. Laws are the minimal conduct needed from every > citizen in order to have a liveable society. If you don't care to > live in a society with a given set of laws, you should leave. If Then fucking GO already, since you obviously don't like the existing laws here in the US!!! > behavior within a given society. If you don't want to adhere to those > minimae, then you should be ejaculated from the society. Surely So we would get to go out in a stream of semen with a smile on our face? > there's someplace that will tolerate your behavior, but others, those > willing to behave within the legal standards, shouldn't have to > tolerate your antisocial and extralegal behavior. I get it, this is some kind of joke, right? "Dick" is really just a bot that spews forth obnoxious and inflammatory rhetoric just so the list will always go wildly off-topic. Ok, who subscribed him? > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the > system. In the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law > abiding citizen. Part of effecting change involves work and > suffering, the rest is waiting. Yeah, I'll go about my merry way while you try to get the law changed so that the next time I use a naughty word in an e-mail message I'll be put to death. > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish > than you repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal > behavior irritates them. If you KNEW for certain that someone else > would take it upon himself to punish you by some equally illegal act, > and any illegal act is equally illegal, you might not behave as you > do. Ok, I waited to get sober before commenting on this part, but it still doesn't make any sense. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Jul 8 00:29:40 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:26 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) Message-ID: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all Some of you probably have seen some of my posts. I have given away a lot of computer stuff vintage and semi-vintage and traded a lot. I have trashed a lot lately. I recent years, I have accumulated way too much computer stuff (mostly vintage and semi-vintage) in my basement...I can only trade so much and trades arent really helping with the "space issue"... I dont wanna junk it and can see most of it can be used...I have paid some money for most of this... I have always "boycotted" ebay as both a seller and a buyer...now online auctions look like the only way to unload quickly the tons of stuff I have... Ill have to pack and ship but I was ready to give it a shot....rather then junk tons of working computers...and related equip... I have now gotten "cold feet" from signing up as a seller on US ebay (with good reason!) since now they ask for both credit card and complete checking bank account info!!! (how bout my fingerprints and social security no...?) Thats way too much info too have "floating around on the net" for me...even just giving my credit card is "unconfortable" for me... I can only imagine the ebay seller sign-ups going way down now...I know there is a lotta fraud on ebay but this is not a good idea for ebay IMO... I have also heard horror stories like paypal fetching funds from sellers bank accounts when stuff was undelivered or problems happened...gee... I could sign up for ebay canada, they only ask for credit card info (weird hey?) but would not be able to have the stuff listed on the US ebay....I have to open up a new account and given the bank account info to be on US ebay.... So anybody with any good alternatives to ebay? Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:27:10 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > example, that, say, pot smokers, a substantial share of the criminal > element in the U.S, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 00:29:02 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 07, 2001 09:56:46 PM Message-ID: <200107080529.f685T2D04554@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor, most of which > >> > aren't that interesting. However, one is labled as follows: > >> > > >> > AQ-FT37C-BN 056222 > >> > MICROVMS/WS V3.0 BIN TK50 > >> > COPYRIGHT 1986 > >> > DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION > >> > > >> > What is it? > >> > >> My guess would be the VMS Windowing System for MicroVMS. > > > >Shucks! I was hoping for a port of Wordstar v3.0 to VMS :) > > Hadn't really considered either of those, I was hopeing for something more > like MicroVMS/WorkStation, but that didn't really make sense (as far as I > know MicroVMS started with V4.x). Somehow I suspect VMS Windowing System > is it. > > As for the WordStar, I don't think that ever made it to VMS, though > WordPerfect did. The closest the pile of tapes came was DECwrite, and VAX > Document. Somehow I've found TeX to be the best solution on VMS, it's nice > and portable, and you can work on it from a VT100 if you want. I've got WordPerfect for VMS somewhere, along with AutoCAD. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:39:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Claude.W wrote: > So anybody with any good alternatives to ebay? I am actually working on a classified ad system on the VCF website for buying/selling/trading vintage computer stuff that will be free to use. I'm about halfway through the code (got the account registration and most of the code to create a listing working, just need to add a search and some account management features for the first release) and will be doing some beta testing before the system is opened up to the public. If I find some time over the next couple weeks I may have it ready to roll by the end of this month. If you want to wait a few more weeks then you'll have a very nice alternative to eBay for selling your excess stuff. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 7 23:44:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: <20010707183825.F1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did take 200 years for it to happen). Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 00:53:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips References: <20010708041211.HKHY216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <000901c10772$60ff6120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What's probably more important is the package. They come in various shapes and sizes. the 44C256 was once pretty popular. I bet half the old SVGA boards I handled today had those on them. Of course the other half didn't ... Some were in SO packages, though, while others might have been DIP's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 6:16 PM Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips > > From: "Russ Blakeman" > > To: "Classic computers message group" > > Subject: Need DRAM chips > > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 > > Importance: Normal > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 card. The ones > > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 pin (10 pins > > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with them - and if > > so how much? > > > > Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? > There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad > different in specs. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 01:01:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <003901c10749$8728f560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01d501c1075f$841a7ae0$3400f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000f01c10773$6c4e7880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The trick is to assign a penalty so severe that all people, no matter how many trillions they have, will not want to pay it, and that, having paid the penalty, they will absolutely not make the choice to do that again. I can only think of one such penalty, though there are many ways of administering it. For example, if the fine for speeding were 100% of all your personal holdings, irresprctive of how much that might be, including clothing and other personal belongings, and 95% of all you earn or otherwise acquire for the next 30 years, assuming you can survive that long on only 5% of what you acquire, you might not choose to speed, particularly since it would require you to watch your children starve, if they hadn't already. It would be costly and diffucult to exact that penalty, while a quick bullet between the eyes would be easy and simple. If a mistake were made, well, a posthumous apology would have to suffice. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:14 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > >There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be > >prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, > >but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. > >I have assumed the risk. > > That's called person responsibility, and with the way lawyers > have made everyone believe that they are the victim, it's a rare > thing to see. I do the same thing though...if I'm doing something > like speeding it's because I conciously decided to and if I'm stopped > for it, I'll pay the price for doing so. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 01:20:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <200107071544.IAA08658@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010708062012.96043.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Cameron Kaiser wrote: > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors... > > I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet adapters, > > complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box only, $5. > > Whoa! and where?! Columbus, OH. > I think I missed the original message. Been looking for > a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! I will be keeping the one-and-only complete one, but I might consider letting a box-only one go. It has a pair of DB-25s for SCSI, so you'd need a 25-pin male-to-male cable for SCSI, and a 800mA 12VDC wall wart. Dunno if that's too much to attempt to pull from the SE/30 PSU, or if you'd even want to try. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 01:29:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001701c10777$4f1eb640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Hi, Foo! Fascism is a socioeconomic system, characterized by close ties between government and industry, not a legal structure. (Learn to read and you'll find such things out! Learning the language well enough to leave out the irrelevant and not particularly useful expletives wouldn't be a bad thing either.) It's not about spitting or scratching, but about putting yourself above the rest of society. Back when it was 25 miles to the nearest neighbor, it didn't matter whether you fired your gun or set off a stick of dynamite. Now that folks are forced by circumstances to live near enough to others that they can't totally avoid your wierd beaviors, it's appropriate that you be forced, like everyone else, to adhere to the social contract. Because you insist on being a problem child, part of that is a penalty. That penalty must ensure that you will under no circumstances cause annoyance to anyone else ever again, and it should serve as an example to others who might consider such transgressions. In the process, perhaps it will move society back to a population level at which you and others of your persuasion won't be such an annoyance to others. see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:07 PM Subject: OT: Re: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > No complaints about stupid shit, but about stupid shits like you, > > Sellam Ismail. All I've said in this thread is that people should obey > > the law. If they don't like it, they can endeavor, within the law, to > > change it to something they like, but if they disobey the law, that's > > prima fasciae evidence that they don't want to be part of the society, > > hence, that they need to be removed from the planet. Making it hurt a > > little is to keep people from thinking it's a cheap way to commit > > suicide. > > This boils down to you being a fucking facist and obnoxious prick about > silly little shit. It would be one thing if you were joking about putting > people to death for spitting on a sidewalk or cursing in public or itching > their ass in plain view of a woman or whatever, but I really think you are > fucked up enough to be serious. > > Your idea of justice and morality, I assure you, is not shared by many > other people, at least not people with any sort of sense. If you think it > would be appropriate to dole out harsh sentences for meaningless actions > such as spitting on a sidewalk, or maybe getting or giving a blowjob It's probably not illegal where you live. That's how this is supposed to work, right? > (which is technically illegal in a few states), then you are one seriously > fucked up individual and you need to move to some country that is more > compatible with your point of view, like Afghanistan or Iran. Go > someplace where your silly-assed views won't run up against any > opposition. You'll be much happier, and won't have to criticize assholes > like me for being so damn liberal. > It doesn't bother me that you're liberal. It doesn't even bother me that you're an asshole, as those are choices it's your right to make. What bothers me is that you seem to think you have rights that you wouldn't allow others to exercise. If you can smoke dope if you want, then I can shoot you if I want, right? What? You dont' like that? Well, who gets to select the laws that we get to break? You? I think not! I can live within the legalism we have. I may not like it, but I can do it. If you'd grow up, you could do it too. You just don't want to do that, since it involves inhibiting your urges. For most people, that's learned at between about age 20-30 months. > > > You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be > > killed for speeding, even if you only did it once, you wouldn't speed. > > You know you'd be killed for stepping off a cliff, and you don't do > > that. The fact remains that if laws were different, people would > > behave differently. > > Thank god people like you will be dead soon. Yeah ... and you, too ... and in English, it's customary to capitalize specific references to the deity, though nonspecific references or plural references need not be capitalized. (Errors in grammar, syntax, and orthography need not be met with capital punishment ... cleaning the blackboards for a week will suffice.) > > > BTW ... ask an adult what a FOO is, as in "Hey, FOO..." > > I hope it means "big brown smelly turd", because that's what I want to be > to you. The big brown smelly turd that will annoy and insult you until > the day you finally succumb to some terrible disease. Since I'm not as into blowjobs as you are, it's unlikely. Moreover, since you're far enough away, I won't be able to appreciate your odor ... a fact I don't particularly regret. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 01:31:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <002601c10777$a3207300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. I simply expect others to do that too. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > laws aren't perfect. Laws are the minimal conduct needed from every > > citizen in order to have a liveable society. If you don't care to > > live in a society with a given set of laws, you should leave. If > > Then fucking GO already, since you obviously don't like the existing laws > here in the US!!! > > > behavior within a given society. If you don't want to adhere to those > > minimae, then you should be ejaculated from the society. Surely > > So we would get to go out in a stream of semen with a smile on our face? > > > there's someplace that will tolerate your behavior, but others, those > > willing to behave within the legal standards, shouldn't have to > > tolerate your antisocial and extralegal behavior. > > I get it, this is some kind of joke, right? "Dick" is really just a bot > that spews forth obnoxious and inflammatory rhetoric just so the list will > always go wildly off-topic. Ok, who subscribed him? > > > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the > > system. In the meantime, however, you must still behave as a law > > abiding citizen. Part of effecting change involves work and > > suffering, the rest is waiting. > > Yeah, I'll go about my merry way while you try to get the law changed so > that the next time I use a naughty word in an e-mail message I'll be put > to death. > > > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish > > than you repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal > > behavior irritates them. If you KNEW for certain that someone else > > would take it upon himself to punish you by some equally illegal act, > > and any illegal act is equally illegal, you might not behave as you > > do. > > Ok, I waited to get sober before commenting on this part, but it still > doesn't make any sense. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 01:37:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708063702.96470.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > > asking $300. > > Well, since he's trying to go out of business, does he really want to go > through the trouble of having to list this thing on eBay to get the $300 > that he wants? He seems pretty pig-headed. Some of his (other) prices are absurd. > If not then he should sell it to you for a far more reasonable $50. > Without a keyboard or mouse (don't tell him a Mac mouse will work :) Of course not. :-) > he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. You underestimate the amount of stupid people who bid there, but with the decline in the value of stock options, people aren't buying as many overpriced vintage computers as they used to, I'd wager; at least not for as much as they used to. Still, I do agree. Working Lisa/MacXLs are going for $400-$500 or so. > He won't get substantially more than $50, and the trouble he would have to > go through to get the money, pack it and ship it will make it not worth > the effort. > > Try to diplomatically bring this to his attention and maybe he'll see it > your way :) I was going to go by tomorrow on the last day of the sale and a) see if it's still there, and b) offer him the $50 and see if he takes it. If he won't budge, I'm not going to give him what he asks. I've been through business liquidations on both ends. I negotiated the entire quantity of Commodore stuff out of our local dealer when he closed. A friend of mine and I split the cost and the haul. He only wanted three or four pricey and valuable things (Ethernet card, large monitor, stuff like that). I got, for not much more than this bozo wants for part of a Lisa, two station-wagon loads of C= service center parts, including a 19" Viking monitor with the special Amiga card, a couple of stripped A2000s (back when they were worth a few hundred bucks), two parts drawers full of PET through Amiga chips, three linear feet of C= service manuals, promotional video tapes, the works. *That* was a going-out-of-business sale! This guy is still too attached to the stuff to recognize that he needs to take what he can get and move on. I plan to raid the dumpster next week for the stuff he couldn't sell. :-) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 01:39:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708063924.44816.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > >Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for > >a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! > > They aren't rare, I am sure you had one in your hand last time you were > here. Asante EN SC, but I wouldn't use one for a SE/30 unless there was a > good reason why I couldn't use an internal card. And in case you didn't know, you can steal one from a MacIIsi - same PDS slot and bracket. I got one from Ohio State Surplus to fix up my one-and- only Mac SE/30 and free up my PowerBook ADB-powered SCSI-Enet pod for my new (to me) color PowerBook. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jul 8 01:39:54 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > take 200 years for it to happen). Tammany Hall? Teapot Dome? President Grant? People are people; people are corrupt. -- From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 01:41:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips References: Message-ID: <003801c10778$fd559980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You may have an easy time finding these for next to no cost at all if you find some 3-chip 256K-byte 30-pin SIMMs. You can remove two chips of this type from each of them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:39 PM Subject: RE: Need DRAM chips > The chips on the mainboard are probably different in that they are a smaller > profile but here's what they have on them: > > .. KOREA > ... 326Y > ... KM44C256J-6 > .. > > There are 4 of them soldered to the board, and they give the S3 section 512K > RAM with 256 color capability. The soldered chips are 20 pin but each side > has two sets of 5 pins with a space between them unlike the bare sockets > that are a symmetrical 10 on each side and longer than the soldered on ones. > 4 chips are supposed to brig it to 1mb and allow more color and (I hope) > higher resolution without a color loss). It's a 1993 486DX2-66 server so > that might give you an idea. I know it's not quite a classic (10 yr old) yet > but it's close enough and I know the people here know more than most in the > chip level stuff. > > I have no idea what the symbol made up of dots is, I've been out of the > component level field too long and my "memory banks" are toast right now > after a couple beers (been landscaping in the hot sun all day and it's time > to relax) > > > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > -> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 7:16 PM > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips > -> > -> > -> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > -> > To: "Classic computers message group" > -> > -> > Subject: Need DRAM chips > -> > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 > -> > Importance: Normal > -> > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> > -> > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 > -> card. The ones > -> > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 > -> pin (10 pins > -> > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part with > -> them - and if > -> > so how much? > -> > > -> > -> Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? > -> There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad > -> different in specs. > -> > -> Cheers, > -> > -> Wizard > > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jul 8 01:41:43 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Decserver 700 question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010707183930.00ab0e40@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: You need to set up a telnet listener. I have a document somewhere on how to do this on 300 series, it should be similar on 700. I will try to locate it. On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Does anyone know how to telnet to the DEC server 700 and then connect > through it to one of the serial ports? I can connect to it with the default > password, then I get the Local> prompt and can't figure out how to connect > me to port7 which is currently hooked to the console of a VAX... > > --Chuck > -- From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 01:47:15 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: MicroVMS/WS V3.0 ?!?!?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708064715.77706.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > >> > I just got *large* pile of TK50 tapes from my neighbor... Sweet. > (as far as I know MicroVMS started with V4.x). It did. It was MicroVMS 4.x, but VMS 5.x for the MicroVAX. MicroVMS wasn't as big so it could fit on an RD51 (originally). I don't think you can stick VMS 5.x on anything smaller than an RD53, *maybe* an RD-32 (ST-251-1 @ 42Mb). > As for the WordStar, I don't think that ever made it to VMS, though > WordPerfect did. I was working for a guy in 1988 that sold a box of WordPerfect for VMS to one of our customers that with all the seat licenses, etc., was $500,000 retail. Major score for a tiny company. I think we got 15% of the take. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ernestls at home.com Sun Jul 8 01:59:32 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10773$6c4e7880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: ...and what does this have to do with vintage computers? Why don't you take your useless punk-ass ideas over to the alt.simpleminded newsgroup where it belongs. Besides, I don't even believe that you agree with what you're saying here because no one could be that stupid. I think that you just want to get a rise out of the folks in this group, which you've achieved, so why not stuff a cork in your pie hole and STFU. Ernest > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 11:01 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > The trick is to assign a penalty so severe that all people, no > matter how many > trillions they have, will not want to pay it, and that, having > paid the penalty, > they will absolutely not make the choice to do that again. I can > only think of > one such penalty, though there are many ways of administering it. > > For example, if the fine for speeding were 100% of all your > personal holdings, > irresprctive of how much that might be, including clothing and > other personal > belongings, and 95% of all you earn or otherwise acquire for the > next 30 years, > assuming you can survive that long on only 5% of what you > acquire, you might not > choose to speed, particularly since it would require you to watch > your children > starve, if they hadn't already. It would be costly and diffucult > to exact that > penalty, while a quick bullet between the eyes would be easy and > simple. If a > mistake were made, well, a posthumous apology would have to suffice. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Hellige" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:14 PM > Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > > >There's clearly a second alternative, which is to be > > >prepared to pay the penalty. For example, I often speed, > > >but if caught I don't complain about having to pay a fine. > > >I have assumed the risk. > > > > That's called person responsibility, and with the way lawyers > > have made everyone believe that they are the victim, it's a rare > > thing to see. I do the same thing though...if I'm doing something > > like speeding it's because I conciously decided to and if I'm stopped > > for it, I'll pay the price for doing so. > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 7 22:12:17 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: <003801c10778$fd559980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010708070818.HXHB216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:41:16 -0600 > Organization: Erlacher Associates > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > You may have an easy time finding these for next to no cost at all if you find > some 3-chip 256K-byte 30-pin SIMMs. You can remove two chips of this type from > each of them. Hi, Now bit better details here... Okay, if it is 20pin DIP sockets, fetch 256K x 4 bit 60ns or 70ns DIPs (the ramdacs on these old computers is not that high to require 60ns). Off a old video cards is easiest, very common item. If it's SOJ, unsoldering chips from 2 or 3 chip 256K pair of simms is required. I haev not seen 20 pin SOJ sockets. This SOJ are soldered on directly to PCB or regular DIP sockets. 1M will only give you 1024x768 at 16 or 256 color I think. You might want to move up to 2M video card if u need windows acceleration and more color at 1024x768. S3 Trio 64V+ is very nice one if fully expanded to 2M. Most of 1M maxed video cards aren't as fully featured compared to 2M video chipsets. Cheers, Wizard From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 02:28:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010708072806.79242.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Hi Ethan, > > I built some magic cables and plug the bare drive & board into a > PC to dump the tapes. If you are interested, I'll dig up the > source to the DOS program I used... Perfect. What's it written in? C? I'd like to consider attempting to optimize it if possible - kinda-of worst case is to read each block in order which requires 4 passes of the heads. I'm wondering if it's possible to do it in two passes if you don't mind reordering the data on the receiver's side. The cables look somewhat straight-forward. I was thinking of making a PC-floppy-to-TU-58 power supply harness (plenty of parts here) and a 2x5-Berg-to-RJ-45 board so I can hook the TU-58 into all the modular serial stuff I'm using here (got a small pile of Cisco serial connectors and flat-cables - the way they have this stuff wired up, if I trade out their ribbon cable with a 10BaseT patch cable, it's like adding a null modem (pins 4 and 5 are ground, 2 and 6 are TxD and RxD, etc) > I also have the TU58 tech manual, so I can post the jumpers if > needed. I'd do it now, but Nascar is starting and I need to pour > myself a coke :) > > Clint > > PS This message posted in memory of Dale Earnhardt, who lost his life > in the last turn of the 2001 Daytona 500. > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > Now that I have found a missing box of TU-58s, I plan to back them up > > for archival and emulation purposes. The easiest TU-58 drive I have > > access to is from an 11/730 (I have a VT-103 in storage, but the other > > drive is already out). Being as old as it is, the pinch rollers have > > turned to goo, naturally. > > > > Can someone give me a tip on what size Tygon tubing people have been > > using for replacement rollers? Is this something I can find at a > > Home Despot or do I have to go to an aquarium shop? Do you clean off > > all the residue from the aluminum hub, or do you just pull the goo off > > and put the Tygon right on? > > > > Is there an online listing of the jumpers on the TU-58 logic board? I > > want to make sure it's strapped to something useful. Looking at the > > internal power cable, Red could be +5 and Orange could be +12V, but > > does anyone know for sure? I plan to make an adapter cable and power > > the drive off of a PC floppy power plug. > > > > What's good software to make a physical block-for-block backup of a > > TU-58 tape? I don't care if it's UNIX or Winblows, I can do either. > > > > Are there any magical things that have to be done with the data cable, or > > can I just make sure gnd, pin 2 and pin 3 go through? > > > > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > > cover VMS 3.x? > > > > -ethan > > > > > > ===== > > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 03:32:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: <20010707133518.82345.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >> BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... (the >> search doesn't end) > >Boards? I have a IIc+. Presuming this isn't a troll, where do the boards go? Below is a clip from a usenet thread. The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, : but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! : Applied Engineering made a RAM expansion board it called "Z-RAM" : (3 different versions) which plugged into the 40-pin 65C02 socket. : The 65C02 plugged into the A.E. board, and it was a pain to plug : the RAM board into the 40-pin 65C02 sockey on the IIc+ motherboard. : There was also a jumper to a pin of another chip on the motherboard. : (A Z80 chip on the reverse side of the RAM board provided dynamic : refresh to the D-RAM chips.) They worked on all IIc and IIc+ : models, with or without the memory expansion socket. : Z-RAM can ocasionally be found for sale on eBay. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 03:46:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: >I have now gotten "cold feet" from signing up as a seller on US ebay (with >good reason!) since now they ask for both credit card and complete checking >bank account info!!! (how bout my fingerprints and social security no...?) Talk to your bank and credit card issuer, ask them what your liability is, and if you don't like it, switch to a bank etc. with better terms. Ebay has a monopoly on one thing, PEOPLE (ie buyers and sellers). Most reasonable alternative in my opionion is to list things in the marketplace sections of the appropriate newsgroups. Make a long list of your stuff and let people pick at it. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 04:27:29 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: References: <20010707133518.82345.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >>> BTW you know the IIc+ had several very interesting boards etc...... (the >>> search doesn't end) >> >>Boards? I have a IIc+. Presuming this isn't a troll, where do the >>boards go? > >Below is a clip from a usenet thread. > > The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, >: but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! Alltech still sells a 1 MB memory expansion, only $119. http://www.allelec.com/hardwapp.htm From roart at nvg.ntnu.no Sun Jul 8 05:54:25 2001 From: roart at nvg.ntnu.no (roart@nvg.ntnu.no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <200107071142.f67BgKC00817@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com>; from pechter@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com on Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:42:19AM -0400 References: <20010707060038.12191.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <200107071142.f67BgKC00817@bg-tc-ppp1287.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010708125425.B21553@nvg.ntnu.no> On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 07:42:19AM -0400, Bill Pechter wrote: > > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > > cover VMS 3.x? > > I think the license does... but the distributions started with 6.x > I think. > > My VaxStation 3100 is on the way FedEx... anyone know what the earliest > version of VAX/VMS for it is? 5.1-B for the earliest, 5.4 for the latest. See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6630/6630pro_015.html#license_app > I'd like to get a full copy of 3.6 or 4.2 to run... they were the last > versions I used doing Field Service. With 4.2 being from 1985, that would be the newest machines you can use, too. I suppose MicroVAX/VAXstation II was supported in 4.2, that would in case be the most powerful machine that is both easy getting hold of, transporting and getting indoors. -- -Roar Thron?s From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 8 06:16:50 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Need DRAM chips In-Reply-To: <000901c10772$60ff6120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Thanks for this and the replaies from you and others. I didn't think of looking on the SIMMs but I have a box of old RAM Expansion cards I need to look through as well. I also have one message direct that states that they may help. See- I knew the people on this list knew their stuff. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher -> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:54 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips -> -> -> What's probably more important is the package. They come in -> various shapes and -> sizes. the 44C256 was once pretty popular. I bet half the old -> SVGA boards I -> handled today had those on them. Of course the other half didn't ... -> -> Some were in SO packages, though, while others might have been DIP's. -> -> Dick -> -> ----- Original Message ----- -> From: -> To: -> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 6:16 PM -> Subject: Re: Need DRAM chips -> -> -> > > From: "Russ Blakeman" -> > > To: "Classic computers message group" -> -> > > Subject: Need DRAM chips -> > > Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:54:16 -0500 -> > > Importance: Normal -> > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> > -> > > In search of 4 DRAM chips for video expansion on built-in S3 -> card. The ones -> > > in it are 44C256 at 60 ns and the 4 empty DIP sockets are 20 -> pin (10 pins -> > > each side). Anyone have 4 in their stash and want to part -> with them - and if -> > > so how much? -> > > -> > -> > Carefully!! What brand of this memory chips with this 44C256? -> > There were dual ported versions, 256K x 16bit, EDO or FPM, some tad -> > different in specs. -> > -> > Cheers, -> > -> > Wizard -> > -> > -> From stefan at softhome.net Sun Jul 8 06:48:18 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010708134639.02e0fec0@pop.softhome.net> Hi Claude, You could try my site where I have an "Old Computer Market" where anybody can post there adds completely for free. Check it out at http://www.oldcomputercollection.com and select "Old Computer Market". Stefan Mansier. At 01:29 8-7-01 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all > >Some of you probably have seen some of my posts. > >I have given away a lot of computer stuff vintage and semi-vintage and >traded a lot. I have trashed a lot lately. > >I recent years, I have accumulated way too much computer stuff (mostly >vintage and semi-vintage) in my basement...I can only trade so much and >trades arent really helping with the "space issue"... > >I dont wanna junk it and can see most of it can be used...I have paid some >money for most of this... > >I have always "boycotted" ebay as both a seller and a buyer...now online >auctions look like the only way to unload quickly the tons of stuff I >have... Ill have to pack and ship but I was ready to give it a >shot....rather then junk tons of working computers...and related equip... > >I have now gotten "cold feet" from signing up as a seller on US ebay (with >good reason!) since now they ask for both credit card and complete checking >bank account info!!! (how bout my fingerprints and social security no...?) > >Thats way too much info too have "floating around on the net" for me...even >just giving my credit card is "unconfortable" for me... > >I can only imagine the ebay seller sign-ups going way down now...I know >there is a lotta fraud on ebay but this is not a good idea for ebay IMO... > >I have also heard horror stories like paypal fetching funds from sellers >bank accounts when stuff was undelivered or problems happened...gee... > >I could sign up for ebay canada, they only ask for credit card info (weird >hey?) but would not be able to have the stuff listed on the US ebay....I >have to open up a new account and given the bank account info to be on US >ebay.... > >So anybody with any good alternatives to ebay? > >Claude >http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From cbajpai at mediaone.net Sun Jul 8 07:09:01 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? (PET Parts???) In-Reply-To: <20010708063702.96470.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ethan...did you say Commodore PET parts? I'm looking for some parts to get an 8K PET running...esp. ROMs + a keyboard. What have you got? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 2:37 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: How much is a partial Lisa worth? --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most > > of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's > > asking $300. > > Well, since he's trying to go out of business, does he really want to go > through the trouble of having to list this thing on eBay to get the $300 > that he wants? He seems pretty pig-headed. Some of his (other) prices are absurd. > If not then he should sell it to you for a far more reasonable $50. > Without a keyboard or mouse (don't tell him a Mac mouse will work :) Of course not. :-) > he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. You underestimate the amount of stupid people who bid there, but with the decline in the value of stock options, people aren't buying as many overpriced vintage computers as they used to, I'd wager; at least not for as much as they used to. Still, I do agree. Working Lisa/MacXLs are going for $400-$500 or so. > He won't get substantially more than $50, and the trouble he would have to > go through to get the money, pack it and ship it will make it not worth > the effort. > > Try to diplomatically bring this to his attention and maybe he'll see it > your way :) I was going to go by tomorrow on the last day of the sale and a) see if it's still there, and b) offer him the $50 and see if he takes it. If he won't budge, I'm not going to give him what he asks. I've been through business liquidations on both ends. I negotiated the entire quantity of Commodore stuff out of our local dealer when he closed. A friend of mine and I split the cost and the haul. He only wanted three or four pricey and valuable things (Ethernet card, large monitor, stuff like that). I got, for not much more than this bozo wants for part of a Lisa, two station-wagon loads of C= service center parts, including a 19" Viking monitor with the special Amiga card, a couple of stripped A2000s (back when they were worth a few hundred bucks), two parts drawers full of PET through Amiga chips, three linear feet of C= service manuals, promotional video tapes, the works. *That* was a going-out-of-business sale! This guy is still too attached to the stuff to recognize that he needs to take what he can get and move on. I plan to raid the dumpster next week for the stuff he couldn't sell. :-) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 8 07:09:09 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002601c10777$a3207300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. I simply > expect others to do that too. I don't understand the premise that you think that everyone else is trying to change the laws. Are you saying that the laws where you are currently make the penalties for infractions and misdemeanors the same as the penalty for shooting Dick? What color is the sky there? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 07:23:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV Message-ID: >Bad solder joint on the crt or power supply. > >JAG >>The display exhibits multiple problems; >> A nasty moire type pattern >> Crackling, shorting type sounds >> Display collapses with each crack, which occur several per second. >> >>So far I have booted the unit a couple times to be sure it wasn't some >>temporary condition, and tonight I swapped out the analog board with no >>change. >> >>Any ideas? I am thinking maybe the tube is hosed, but I am unfamiliar with >>this type of failure. Fortunately I have no shortage of 57x donor machines, >>but I don't want to swap the tube if it isn't a likely fix. It sure feels, smells more like a short than an open, but I will take another look. Plus I did swap the entire analog board including the tin can on the back of the CRT. What I may do next is pop off the back and power the unit up in a dark room tonight. BTW what do you mean exactly by bad solder joint on the CRT? *** update I took off the back and booted the system in a dark room just now, and the light show is all from the inside of the neck of the CRT. With the power off I don't "see" any damaged areas, but it sure was active with the power on, flashes, glowing areas that looked almost like embers, very sci fi. This must mean the CRT is toast right? or could something else cause this?(given the whole analog board was swapped out with no change). From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jul 8 08:39:12 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: References: <20010707133518.82345.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, >>: but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! > >Alltech still sells a 1 MB memory expansion, only $119. >http://www.allelec.com/hardwapp.htm I've never taken them apart to check it out, but how different are the RAM cards between the IIc and the Laser 128? I've got a couple of 1meg RAM expansion boards for the Laser 128, none of them have any of the RAM chips installed. I also have what appears to be a proto or knockoff of the same board, fully populated. The layout is the same but instead of being on the standard green PCB, it's on a silver metallic one and all the chips are socketed vice just the RAM chips on the factory boards. It also doesn't have any markings on the board at all. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 08:58:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 6:09 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. I simply > > expect others to do that too. > > I don't understand the premise that you think that everyone else is trying > to change the laws. I didn't say that. I said that if folks don't want to obey the existing laws, they should, within the existing legal framework, endeavor to change them, not simply disregard them. > Are you saying that the laws where you are currently make the penalties > for infractions and misdemeanors the same as the penalty for shooting > Dick? > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. I said that you don't just step off a cliff on a whim, and, therefore, it's reasonble to assume that, since the outcome would be the same, you wouldn't spit on the sidewalk if the penalty for that were capital. It's not, of course, but, clearly, if everyone gets to choose which laws he/she obeys and which not, then we're all in trouble. Think about it! One guy thinks it's OK for him to spit on the sidewalk. Another thinks it's OK to drive 40 mph in that 25 mph zone. He can afford to pay the fine. Acceptance of that means that the guy with a 7-figure income basically can ignore the "lesser" laws that carry penalties he can afford to pay. Now, another guy thinks it's OK to have a couple of extra drinks before he drives home from the bar. He figures it's worth the risk, and he can afford to pay the fines, and he can afford to hire a lawyer to minimize what he does have to pay. In most states there no significant additional penalty for being drunk and killing half a dozen people than simply for causing a wreck resulting in jnjury because he's drunk. Is that the right way? Should he be able to make the choices resulting in the deaths of several people just because he can pay the fines and pay the lawyers? Should we tolerate that he do it again? How does that differ from the guy who gets drunk and shoots his neighbor in an argument? What about the guy who shoots his neighbor in an argument, but doesn't get drunk first? What if there was no argument first. What if he just sneaks up on the guy and shoots him? What if he does it in order to rob the guy? > > What color is the sky there? > Same as where you are, but I'm really tired of folks ingoring the "minor" laws we, as a society, have put in place in order to make the community safer and more liveable, only to have some jerk who feels he's more important than the rest of us go off and do somethng that puts us, our safety, and our peace of mind at risk. The business with the illegal fireworks that everybody views with a blind eye seems a good example. Another one would be the really loud car stereo. What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. > From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 8 09:26:13 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <20010707221327.H1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what > are we going to do about it? Ah, the solutions to that are very simple, and would result in more land being available for future generations: 1. Implement a child tax for people with more than two children and stop giving people tax breaks for having children. Give people tax breaks for not having children. 2. Do away with religions dogma that makes people believe that it's ok to go forth and multiply like rabits, flies, etc. 3. Intitute a ban on the building of new houses, unless for the purpose of replacement. Ban the building of business parks and other such commercial development that's destroying the woodlands and farms that we have left. Halt all new road construction. 4. Reduce immigration by at least 95 percent. 5. Spay and geld all illegal immigrants; then send them back home. and... 6. Have a revolution and then elect me to be the king. If elected, I promise that hacking shall be encouraged and promoted, and that PERQs, PDP-11/45s --- or at least blinken-light equipped, faster, and modern pseudo-equivalents of them, valved radios, audio amplifiers and large automobiles shall be manufactured in plentiful supply. ...and in addition, I'll not tax farm land. :-) From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 8 09:31:59 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001701c10777$4f1eb640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > child, part of that is a penalty. That penalty must ensure that you > will under no circumstances cause annoyance to anyone else ever > again, and it should serve Hmmmm... perhaps Dick needs our help with his education. Shall we set up a little meeting to explain the use of tar and feathers to him? ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From fauradon at frontiernet.net Sun Jul 8 11:31:48 2001 From: fauradon at frontiernet.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Calculator Find References: <01be01c10682$926b3860$4b731fd1@default> Message-ID: <004401c107cb$7d9bc2c0$0264640a@frontiernet.net> Hi John., Which auctions are you going to? Need company? Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Keys Jr." To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:17 PM Subject: Calculator Find > While at the thrift on Thursday I found a Singer Friden EC 1117A > electronic calculator for $1.99 plus tax. Also got non working Hitron > laptop for $4.99. Picked up about 20 books with alot of them being HP > calculator manuals. Almost forgot a Toshiba T5100 cost all of $2. Other > than the hand full of mousepads that was it for the week. Hope to hit > two big auctions next week looking for a few goodies. > > From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 8 09:42:27 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c107bc$36155ba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Richard, I can see you're putting a lot of effort in your posts. But at this point I think I should tell you that all I'm doing with them is [DEL], [DEL], [DEL]. John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 8 09:44:51 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff ... on the subject line References: Message-ID: <00af01c107bc$8be3e920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Sellam said: > I may have {a website} ready to roll by the end of this month. What about the VCF? I plan to take two trips to VCF east. On day one I will collect wants and availabilities and on day 2 match them to my availabilities and wants. It'd be nice to replace shipping costs for the price of hitchhiking the item in my car, it's much cheaper. It would be better still if peoples' 'wants and haves' were known Before VCF east so I could start bringing on day one. Some things I have now, much of it free, are: Thomas-Conrad setup (cards,hub,docs), Funky Apple ///, RS6000 (for $), SMD drive ($), IDE drives, Netware Docs. John A. From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Sun Jul 8 10:03:41 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Space War? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010706234333.022b3a60@209.185.79.193> <200107071545.f67Fjhs45452@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3B48764C.B244B7D9@bellsouth.net> Frank McConnell wrote: > > Chuck McManis wrote: > > As I understand it the Computer Museum History Center brought up SpaceWar > > on a PDP-1 to demonstrate it before some patent attorneys who used it as > > 'prior art' to invalidate some video game patents. > > IIRC, TCM's PDP-1 failed to power up at some time while still at TCM > in Boston. (Early-mid 1990s?) It is now at Moffett Field, and there > is (or was recently) interest in restoring it to functionality. > > -Frank McConnell There is actually more than 1 PDP-1 at Moffett. They had one in the visible display area during DECWORLD 2001, but another one sits all wrapped up on a pallet in the warehouse storage area. I am sure they will eventually get one running. They expect to build a new building and occupy it in 2005. A working PDP-1 would make a nice exhibit for the new location. They have enough old DEC systems in the warehouse to keep them busy with restoration projects for a long time. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 8 10:12:29 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B48785D.7B0EC3FD@tiac.net> What is this CRAP! All all laws just and fair? Hell no. How about a law against long, off-topic threads on this list! Lets not kill the messanger (yet), but lets kill the OT threads, please. Richard Erlacher wrote: > see below, plz. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Allain" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 4:12 PM > Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > > - - - - - > > "if {people} disobey the law, that's prima fasciae evidence that they don't > > want > > to be part of the society, hence, that they need to be removed from the > > planet." > > - - - - - > > Sorry, I can't let a statement like this be made without dissent. > > (1) I can't expect an enforceable perfection from others, and > > It's the notion of intent that's the problem. You can't measure that, however, > so it's the act that's got to be the determining factor. > > > (2) see no need to make any penalties not match the crimes > > involved. This is the modern equivalent of 'Eye for an Eye'. > > > > That's the other side of the coin. If you adhere to the slippery slope notion, > then you recognize that if one is mildly punished for stealing a grape, but > severely punished for stealing a pig, it's easy to make the transition. If > one's killed for either, it makes no difference, since it will only have to be > dealt with once. > > Just ask yourself, "What would it take to make me (meaning YOU) adhere to all > the laws all the time?" Adhering to the laws is far from perfection, since the > laws aren't perfect. Laws are the minimal conduct needed from every citizen in > order to have a liveable society. If you don't care to live in a society with a > given set of laws, you should leave. If there's no place on the planet where > there are laws that suit you, then you should go elsewhere. The laws define the > minimal acceptable behavior within a given society. If you don't want to adhere > to those minimae, then you should be ejaculated from the society. Surely > there's someplace that will tolerate your behavior, but others, those willing to > behave within the legal standards, shouldn't have to tolerate your antisocial > and extralegal behavior. > > If you don't like a law, then set about to change it within the system. In the > meantime, however, you must still behave as a law abiding citizen. Part of > effecting change involves work and suffering, the rest is waiting. > > You enjoy the freedoms you enjoy only because others, less selfish than you > repress their urge to harm you whenever your extralegal behavior irritates them. > If you KNEW for certain that someone else would take it upon himself to punish > you by some equally illegal act, and any illegal act is equally illegal, you > might not behave as you do. > > > > - - - - - > > "Clearly, you can't see the sense of this" > > - - - - - > > Yup, me too. > > > > > > - - - - - > > "You know as well as anyone, that if you KNEW for certain that you'd be > > killed > > for speeding" > > - - - - - > > If you're talking about death for speeding and the like, then I believe the > > people > > would toss law enforcement altogether and start over. > > > > > > John A. > > > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 8 10:34:36 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Calculator Find References: <01be01c10682$926b3860$4b731fd1@default> <004401c107cb$7d9bc2c0$0264640a@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <001b01c107c3$849ec7a0$ca731fd1@default> I'm going to the imation and 3m auction that run Monday and Tuesday of this week. I will be going around 11AM on Monday from work (during my lunch hour) if you want to meet me there it would be great. I could use so help as things are going too high for me to bid alone anymore. If we see something we like we can go half and half on the bid. I wish I had contacted you about the school auction 2 weeks ago I ended up missing alot of good items cheap because I got mad and left. Tell the wife hello for me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue & Francois" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Calculator Find > Hi John., > Which auctions are you going to? > Need company? > Francois > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Keys Jr." > To: > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:17 PM > Subject: Calculator Find > > > > While at the thrift on Thursday I found a Singer Friden EC 1117A > > electronic calculator for $1.99 plus tax. Also got non working Hitron > > laptop for $4.99. Picked up about 20 books with alot of them being HP > > calculator manuals. Almost forgot a Toshiba T5100 cost all of $2. Other > > than the hand full of mousepads that was it for the week. Hope to hit > > two big auctions next week looking for a few goodies. > > > > > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Jul 8 11:13:56 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B4886C4.AE5FE3E7@rain.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social > contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, > that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and > have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. > > What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some > people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it > themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. Dick, I think your words have been getting in the way of what you are trying to say. The above statement seems to boil it all down pretty well. And of course, you are right :)!!! And to add just a bit, some of the laws that are passed seem to be politically motivated, and the hell with the betterment of society. Personally, I would like to see the politicians justify ALL laws that get passed including the pork barrel attachments. Little to nothing is being done to encourage people to obey the laws, and passing stupid laws just promotes disrespect for the law. From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:19:47 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The politicians in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Take Russia or India. There's corruption. This is nothing. The "corruption" here is basically the small amount that gets past the radar of the all-consuming all-terrifying tyrannical American mob. Other countries don't have this mechanism. It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our politicians in line. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. > > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > take 200 years for it to happen). > > Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the > United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:23:20 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10773$6c4e7880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: If society were to take this kind of horrible intolerable turn, I would be forced to take up arms. I would kill as many people as I could (it would be quite a few, I think. Myself and a couple other intelligent people might be able to think up ingenious ways of destroying, if necessary.) and then I would happily go off to the executioner. If the penalty was the former of your two examples, I would make sure to produce absolutely nothing. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The trick is to assign a penalty so severe that all people, no matter how many > trillions they have, will not want to pay it, and that, having paid the penalty, > they will absolutely not make the choice to do that again. I can only think of > one such penalty, though there are many ways of administering it. > > For example, if the fine for speeding were 100% of all your personal holdings, > irresprctive of how much that might be, including clothing and other personal > belongings, and 95% of all you earn or otherwise acquire for the next 30 years, > assuming you can survive that long on only 5% of what you acquire, you might not > choose to speed, particularly since it would require you to watch your children > starve, if they hadn't already. It would be costly and diffucult to exact that > penalty, while a quick bullet between the eyes would be easy and simple. If a > mistake were made, well, a posthumous apology would have to suffice. > > Dick From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jul 8 11:32:32 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: In a message dated 7/8/01 10:26:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rdd@smart.net writes: << On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > child, part of that is a penalty. That penalty must ensure that you > will under no circumstances cause annoyance to anyone else ever > again, and it should serve Hmmmm... perhaps Dick needs our help with his education. Shall we set up a little meeting to explain the use of tar and feathers to him? ;-) >> how about we CENSURE him so we can...uh... get back on topic? -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:40:03 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Reponses inline: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I didn't say that. I said that if folks don't want to obey the existing laws, > they should, within the existing legal framework, endeavor to change them, not > simply disregard them. There are times when endeavoring to change a law is simply not enough. Suppose that the law called for your execution for something that was out of your control? Like the circumstances of your birth? How about forced sterilization due to a genetic abnormality? What if the majority believes in this? Without civil disobedience, our black friends would not be our black friends. They would simply be the niggers living screwing up our neighborhoods. There would still be acceptable scientific theories regarding the genetic superiority of certain races. > > Are you saying that the laws where you are currently make the penalties > > for infractions and misdemeanors the same as the penalty for shooting > > Dick? > > > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social > contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, > that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and > have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. Some of the most grave injustices are social contracts that were forced on people. Sometimes simply "leaving" is not an option. > I said that you don't just step off a cliff on a whim, and, therefore, it's > reasonble to assume that, since the outcome would be the same, you wouldn't spit > on the sidewalk if the penalty for that were capital. It's not, of course, but, > clearly, if everyone gets to choose which laws he/she obeys and which not, then > we're all in trouble. But if you accidentally step off a cliff, you still die. Are you saying that, through no fault of your own, if you break the law, you should be executed? I cannot and will not subscribe to this idea. > Think about it! One guy thinks it's OK for him to spit on the sidewalk. > Another thinks it's OK to drive 40 mph in that 25 mph zone. He can afford to > pay the fine. Acceptance of that means that the guy with a 7-figure income > basically can ignore the "lesser" laws that carry penalties he can afford to > pay. That's why we have license revocation and demerit points. Do you think millionaires *like* to pay fines? No way. Millionaires become millionaires (outside of the inheritance case) by being thrift-wise. > Now, another guy thinks it's OK to have a couple of extra drinks before he > drives home from the bar. He figures it's worth the risk, and he can afford to > pay the fines, and he can afford to hire a lawyer to minimize what he does have > to pay. In most states there no significant additional penalty for being drunk > and killing half a dozen people than simply for causing a wreck resulting in > jnjury because he's drunk. Is that the right way? Should he be able to make > the choices resulting in the deaths of several people just because he can pay > the fines and pay the lawyers? Should we tolerate that he do it again? How > does that differ from the guy who gets drunk and shoots his neighbor in an > argument? What about the guy who shoots his neighbor in an argument, but > doesn't get drunk first? What if there was no argument first. What if he just > sneaks up on the guy and shoots him? What if he does it in order to rob the > guy? Well, ideally, the public defender should be the best attorney in the lot. Ideally. > > What color is the sky there? > > > Same as where you are, but I'm really tired of folks ingoring the "minor" laws > we, as a society, have put in place in order to make the community safer and > more liveable, only to have some jerk who feels he's more important than the > rest of us go off and do somethng that puts us, our safety, and our peace of > mind at risk. The business with the illegal fireworks that everybody views with > a blind eye seems a good example. Another one would be the really loud car > stereo. You are aware that most of these "really loud stereos" don't violate noise ordinance right? Even the ones with 4 12-inchers in a three-way bandpass. You advocate communism. Everyone is the most important. That is what it means to live in America. Move to Cuba. Or bettter yet, move to China. > What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some > people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it > themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. That is why I say that you value the society over its members. Let me say that I don't completely disagree with you. It is just that it is not the American way. Period. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:41:37 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:27 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is the kind of mentality that allowed demagogues like Hitler and Stalin to flourish. (I didn't think you were serious, but I still had to respond.) Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what > > are we going to do about it? > > Ah, the solutions to that are very simple, and would result in > more land being available for future generations: > > 1. Implement a child tax for people with more than two children and > stop giving people tax breaks for having children. Give people tax > breaks for not having children. > 2. Do away with religions dogma that makes people believe that it's ok > to go forth and multiply like rabits, flies, etc. > 3. Intitute a ban on the building of new houses, unless for the purpose of > replacement. Ban the building of business parks and other such commercial > development that's destroying the woodlands and farms that we have left. > Halt all new road construction. > 4. Reduce immigration by at least 95 percent. > 5. Spay and geld all illegal immigrants; then send them back home. > > and... > > 6. Have a revolution and then elect me to be the king. If elected, I > promise that hacking shall be encouraged and promoted, and that PERQs, > PDP-11/45s --- or at least blinken-light equipped, faster, > and modern pseudo-equivalents of them, valved radios, audio amplifiers > and large automobiles shall be manufactured in plentiful supply. > ...and in addition, I'll not tax farm land. :-) > > From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 11:44:25 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff ... on the subject line In-Reply-To: <00af01c107bc$8be3e920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: What kind of RS/6K? Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Sellam said: > > I may have {a website} ready to roll by the end of this month. > > What about the VCF? > > I plan to take two trips to VCF east. > On day one I will collect wants and availabilities > and on day 2 match them to my availabilities and wants. > It'd be nice to replace shipping costs for the price of > hitchhiking the item in my car, it's much cheaper. > > It would be better still if peoples' 'wants and haves' were > known Before VCF east so I could start bringing on day one. > > Some things I have now, much of it free, are: > Thomas-Conrad setup (cards,hub,docs), Funky Apple ///, > RS6000 (for $), SMD drive ($), IDE drives, Netware Docs. > > John A. > From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 10:45:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <002601c10777$a3207300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. > I simply expect others to do that too. What's the penalty for kicking you square in the nuts? I'll gladly pay it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 10:49:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? In-Reply-To: <20010708063702.96470.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. > > You underestimate the amount of stupid people who bid there, but with > the decline in the value of stock options, people aren't buying as > many overpriced vintage computers as they used to, I'd wager; at least > not for as much as they used to. Exactly. The vintage computer market peaked a year ago, about the time the stock market tanked and all the paper value that instigated $3,000 Altairs and IMSAIs went "poof". > Still, I do agree. Working Lisa/MacXLs are going for $400-$500 or so. I still think that's a bit inflated. > I was going to go by tomorrow on the last day of the sale and a) see > if it's still there, and b) offer him the $50 and see if he takes it. > If he won't budge, I'm not going to give him what he asks. Good! Hold strong! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 10:52:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, > >: but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! > > Alltech still sells a 1 MB memory expansion, only $119. > http://www.allelec.com/hardwapp.htm Damn, what a bargain. I'll bet all 2 remaining loyal //c users are beating a path to their storefront. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Sun Jul 8 11:59:35 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 06-Jul-2001 Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... http://hpux.asknet.de/ might interest you. -Philip From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 10:59:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff ... on the subject line In-Reply-To: <00af01c107bc$8be3e920$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > What about the VCF? > > I plan to take two trips to VCF east. > On day one I will collect wants and availabilities > and on day 2 match them to my availabilities and wants. > It'd be nice to replace shipping costs for the price of > hitchhiking the item in my car, it's much cheaper. > > It would be better still if peoples' 'wants and haves' were > known Before VCF east so I could start bringing on day one. > > Some things I have now, much of it free, are: > Thomas-Conrad setup (cards,hub,docs), Funky Apple ///, > RS6000 (for $), SMD drive ($), IDE drives, Netware Docs. A trading message board is a good idea. I'll work on getting the message board software I created for VCF 4.0 last year implemented on the VCF East page. That way, people can use the system to discuss these sorts of trades. I'll post here soon when it's available. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 11:02:40 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B4886C4.AE5FE3E7@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Marvin wrote: > Dick, I think your words have been getting in the way of what you are > trying to say. The above statement seems to boil it all down pretty > well. And of course, you are right :)!!! And to add just a bit, some > of the laws that are passed seem to be politically motivated, and the > hell with the betterment of society. Personally, I would like to see > the politicians justify ALL laws that get passed including the pork > barrel attachments. Little to nothing is being done to encourage > people to obey the laws, and passing stupid laws just promotes > disrespect for the law. And we can blame part of this on our beacon of morality who sets an example for the American citizenry, our President! ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From west at tseinc.com Mon Jul 9 00:22:51 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) References: Message-ID: <00d601c10837$33aec600$858953d1@jay> Ok, I'll be the first to beg - can we end this thread on politics and get back to classic computers? Jay West From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 8 12:30:06 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas References: Message-ID: <007301c107d3$bf14f480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The > politicians in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Agree. I studied Indonesia since I had a crush for one of its expats and found this neat story: You're running a small business and on one day the liscenced Air Conditioner inspector comes by and does his thing, then, a few days later the Gvt Narcotics Police come by and "discover" a small stash planted in guess where? That's Corruption. BTW they just rotated their prime minister so there's some progress. John A. From owad at applefritter.com Sun Jul 8 12:40:29 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000b01c10765$8ffb7fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <000b01c10765$8ffb7fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010708174029.18356@mail.earthlink.net> > The Arkansas legislature passed a law that states that the Arkansas > River can rise no higher than to the Main Street bridge in Little > Rock. Has it obeyed? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Sun Jul 8 12:55:47 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) In-Reply-To: <00d601c10837$33aec600$858953d1@jay> Message-ID: On 09-Jul-2001 Jay West wrote: > Ok, I'll be the first to beg - can we end this thread on politics and > get back to classic computers? Hear hear! Deleting all this crap each time i download my mail is annoying and time-wasting. -Philip From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Sun Jul 8 13:20:49 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994616449.3b48a481e57ec@mail.er-grp.com> Quoting gwynp@artware.qc.ca: > > On 06-Jul-2001 Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... > > http://hpux.asknet.de/ might interest you. Probably wont help him, those HP-UX archives are mostly s700. It's difficult enough to find software for 300-series but the 500-series (of which 9020 is a member aka. 9000/520) is impossible, with the exception of kermit. I'm lucky enough to be blessed with microemacs, a good network stack, uniplex (?) office program collection and some sort of FEA software. I'll try Nethack someday :) -- jht From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 8 13:01:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707201718.00ab0dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jul 7, 1 08:20:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 460 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010708/70e65e18/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 8 13:05:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <001901c10745$4d220ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 7, 1 06:31:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1771 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010708/684d0102/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Sun Jul 8 13:21:10 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <20010707221327.H1410@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what > are we going to do about it? I just shot the breeder next door. I've done my part. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jul 8 12:57:08 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: gwynp@artware.qc.ca's message of "Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:59:35 -0400 (EDT)" References: Message-ID: <200107081757.f68Hv8A90634@daemonweed.reanimators.org> gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > On 06-Jul-2001 Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... > > http://hpux.asknet.de/ might interest you. It's unlikely. Wolfgang is asking about an HP 9000/520 aka 9020. It's one of HP's first 9000s, sort of an early workstation, and was well on its way to obsolescence in the early 1990s. The processor architecture is a 32-bit stack machine called FOCUS, and it's nothing like a Motorola 68000 nor HP PA-RISC. And it's been frustrating open-source types for years. Here's what etc/MACHINES file from the GNU Emacs distribution has had to say for a long time now: # HP 9000 series 500: not supported. # # The series 500 has a seriously incompatible memory architecture # which relocates data in memory during execution of a program, # and support for it would be difficult to implement. -Frank McConnell From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 13:23:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000001c1071c$5f3879e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002d01c10731$f910bc20$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002901c10747$4ff037e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B48785D.7B0EC3FD@tiac.net> Message-ID: <005101c107db$0a189520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Shannon" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > What is this CRAP! > > All all laws just and fair? Hell no. > > How about a law against long, off-topic threads on this list! > Well, that's what I've been driving at, isn't it? If the legal structure isn't what you want, don't ignore it, but FIX IT! > > Lets not kill the messanger (yet), but lets kill the OT threads, please. > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > see below, plz. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Allain" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 4:12 PM > > Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > From owad at applefritter.com Sun Jul 8 13:24:26 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: FS/T: 8-bit micros Message-ID: <20010708182426.13905@mail.earthlink.net> Pick up in south-central PA or at VCF East. Some of this stuff I could possibly ship. TRS-80 CoCo 2 CoCo 2 box (medoiocre condition) CCR-82 Cassette Recorder w/cable Introducing Your Color Computer 2 Getting Started with Extended Color BASIC Extended BASIC Quick Reference Carts: Color File II w/booklet & case Personal Finance II w/booklet & case Commodore VIC-20 AC adapter unusual-looking (to me) RF modulator Carts: Adventure Land Mole Attack Voodoo Castle Number Nabber, Shape Grabber River Rescue TRS-80 CoCo 3. I could have sworn I didn't own one of these. It's in the original box, which is in decent condition. TRS-80 Model 4 Getting Started with TRS-80 BASIC for Models I & III C64 in box w/a bunch of manuals and 'Books of Commodore'. And I think I've got another three Commdores, too, two of which I'm pretty certain are the newer Platinum variation. I had no idea I had so many 64's. These things are worse than rabbits. IBM Convertible w/brand-new-in-box power adapter. IBM Convertible w/battery unit & brand-new-in-box power adapter. Stuff I'm looking for: Apple & Mac clones Interesting Apple stuff NeXT cube Apple II (plain II) LEGO stuff (blocks or electronics) Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 13:22:56 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: DECW$ resolution Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708112143.00ab1b60@209.185.79.193> Well the two tricks that I hadn't caught on to was that you have to install the "workstation support" files, and after installing Motif you have to run AUTOGEN again so that it can mess with your parameters. Then it comes up to the window system. Very nice. --Chuck From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 8 14:00:13 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B48ADBD.BD60AB40@internet1.net> Joe, I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or undersize. They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without appropriate updates on the power system. Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. It is part of a longer range solution. Drilling in new locations is something a lot of countries are doing. Drilling in the North Sea is being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. Something might have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA joe wrote: > Is that the same energy crisis that the oil industry keeps saying is > being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones > of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how > drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery > capacity! > > Joe From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 14:06:17 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <20010708125425.B21553@nvg.ntnu.no> from "roart@nvg.ntnu.no" at Jul 08, 2001 12:54:25 PM Message-ID: <200107081906.f68J6Hk24430@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > Thanks for any and all help. Last question: does the VMS Hobbyist program > > > cover VMS 3.x? > > > > I think the license does... but the distributions started with 6.x > > I think. > > > > My VaxStation 3100 is on the way FedEx... anyone know what the earliest > > version of VAX/VMS for it is? > > 5.1-B for the earliest, 5.4 for the latest. > See http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6630/6630pro_015.html#license_app A VAXstation 3100 can run versions of OpenVMS later than 5.4. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 14:27:59 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010708134639.02e0fec0@pop.softhome.net> References: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708122614.024a22e0@209.185.79.193> At 01:48 PM 7/8/01 +0200, stefan wrote: >Hi Claude, > >You could try my site where I have an "Old Computer Market" where anybody >can post there adds completely for free. Check it out at >http://www.oldcomputercollection.com and select "Old Computer Market". > >Stefan Mansier. When I try to read these pages the text is totally obscured on the left hand side by some weird dark blue graphic! --Chuck Oh, never mind its an "Internet Exploder Only" site ... From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 8 14:35:42 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: VMS Timeline and more Message-ID: I was just poking around on the net, killing some time while watching something I've got running at work, so I decided to see what I could dig up on VMS. Anyway I just found a *very* interesting page. http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/vms_hist.html It has release dates and major feature changes from V1 - V7.2. BTW, for those that don't know V7.3 was released a couple months ago. Anyway it's an interesting page. It looks like http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/ might be worth looking through also. Such as http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/vms_hw.html which lists minimum OS versions for the various systems. Anyway I don't know who dug all this info up and created these pages, but they look to have a bunch of info I've been looking for, for a long time. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 15:02:39 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: holy grail found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> > The IIc+ has a "memory expansion" socket like an enhanced-type IIc, >> >: but Apple (brand) IIc RAM expansion boards don't work in IIc+'s! >> >> Alltech still sells a 1 MB memory expansion, only $119. >> http://www.allelec.com/hardwapp.htm > >Damn, what a bargain. I'll bet all 2 remaining loyal //c users are >beating a path to their storefront. Actually I emailed them to see if I could cut a deal on a Focus drive and memory expansion. (I have a few sealed cases of a part they have been out of stock for a bit on). From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:11:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <001701c107b6$14acdd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B4886C4.AE5FE3E7@rain.org> Message-ID: <006001c107ea$8c2ebee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, perhaps words have gotten in the way, but, however true it is that stupid laws promote their own irrelevance, the fact that they are disregarded also promotes the passage of more stupid laws. If they were taken seriously, and the politicians not allowed to get by with weak and senseless laws, people would take them more seriously. Everybody knows, however, that politicians won't be the ones to take the lead. If folks would do their part in keep the social contract, the politicians would have to follow. If everybody simply does what they've been doing, things will never improve. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social > > contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, > > that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and > > have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. > > > > What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some > > people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it > > themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. > > Dick, I think your words have been getting in the way of what you are trying > to say. The above statement seems to boil it all down pretty well. And of > course, you are right :)!!! And to add just a bit, some of the laws that are > passed seem to be politically motivated, and the hell with the betterment of > society. Personally, I would like to see the politicians justify ALL laws > that get passed including the pork barrel attachments. Little to nothing is > being done to encourage people to obey the laws, and passing stupid laws > just promotes disrespect for the law. > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:14:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas References: Message-ID: <006101c107ea$8c5050a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's not the politicians that are corrupt. It's the citizens who don't hold up their end of the social contract. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The politicians > in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Take Russia or > India. There's corruption. This is nothing. The "corruption" here is > basically the small amount that gets past the radar of the all-consuming > all-terrifying tyrannical American mob. Other countries don't have this > mechanism. It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in > that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our > politicians in line. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > > > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > > > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > > > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > > > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > > > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. > > > > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > > take 200 years for it to happen). > > > > Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the > > United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:15:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <006701c107ea$c7e686c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, SUPRDAVE, what was the topic? How relevant was a discussion of fireworks and 4th of July party practices to "classic computers?" Who started this thing, anyway. I know I didn't. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:32 AM Subject: Re: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > In a message dated 7/8/01 10:26:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rdd@smart.net > writes: > > << On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > child, part of that is a penalty. That penalty must ensure that you > > will under no circumstances cause annoyance to anyone else ever > > again, and it should serve > > Hmmmm... perhaps Dick needs our help with his education. Shall we set > up a little meeting to explain the use of tar and feathers to him? ;-) > >> > > how about we CENSURE him so we can...uh... get back on topic? > > -- > DB Young Team OS/2 > > old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: > www.nothingtodo.org > > From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sun Jul 8 11:51:09 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration... Message-ID: <3B488F7D.9FAB1D09@diablonet.net> I think it's really unfortunate that Mr. Erlacher finds it necessary hijack the list with this ridiculous rhetoric. It's just totally beyond me why someone would want to speak in this fashion. I find the lack of importance Mr. Erlacher assigns to basic concepts such as liberty, individuality, and respect for human life appalling. We've all probably lived long enough to know that governments oftentimes get confused and start to drift from what they're supposed to be doing (keeping basic order) to legislating trivial and personal areas of human life. I'd prefer not to have every element of my life dictated by corrupt old men and off-the-wall special interest groups, so on occasion, I find it necessary to work around some of the more ridiculous instances of government spew. There are definitely things that are wrong because they hurt others and set back progress made by society, and punishments should be in place to dissuade people from doing things like this. If you think it's necessary, however, to slaughter everyone who's ever done five over on the highway or smoked a joint, I'd be inclined to wonder what terrible abuse you must have lived through to think in this manner. Really, though, this is the "classic computer collector mailing list", not the "ultratotalitarian politics list", so as a few other people are starting to say as well, could we please just lay this one to rest? It's accomplishing nothing, save for making a lot of people very offended and angry. Thanks, --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 15:28:44 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: <994616449.3b48a481e57ec@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: What kind of machine is the 9000/520? MOT? PA-RISC? Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > Quoting gwynp@artware.qc.ca: > > > > > On 06-Jul-2001 Wolfgang.Eichberger@bps.at wrote: > > > Hi. I'm searching for some HPUX docs and software for the HP 9020. > > > I think HPUX 5.? is still running... > > > > http://hpux.asknet.de/ might interest you. > > Probably wont help him, those HP-UX archives are mostly s700. It's > difficult enough to find software for 300-series but the 500-series > (of which 9020 is a member aka. 9000/520) is impossible, with the > exception of kermit. > > I'm lucky enough to be blessed with microemacs, a good network stack, > uniplex (?) office program collection and some sort of FEA software. > > I'll try Nethack someday :) > -- > jht > From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 8 15:31:57 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: <006101c107ea$8c5050a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I didn't make any observations about the corruption of the populace here. Only the politicians. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's not the politicians that are corrupt. It's the citizens who don't hold up > their end of the social contract. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vance Dereksen" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:19 AM > Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > > > > > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The politicians > > in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Take Russia or > > India. There's corruption. This is nothing. The "corruption" here is > > basically the small amount that gets past the radar of the all-consuming > > all-terrifying tyrannical American mob. Other countries don't have this > > mechanism. It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in > > that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our > > politicians in line. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > > > > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > > > > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > > > > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > > > > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > > > > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > > > > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. > > > > > > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > > > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > > > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > > > take 200 years for it to happen). > > > > > > Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the > > > United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:35:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <006d01c107ed$7fe8eea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Reponses inline: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:40 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > Reponses inline: > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I didn't say that. I said that if folks don't want to obey the existing laws, > > they should, within the existing legal framework, endeavor to change them, not > > simply disregard them. > > There are times when endeavoring to change a law is simply not enough. > Suppose that the law called for your execution for something that was out > of your control? Like the circumstances of your birth? How about forced > sterilization due to a genetic abnormality? What if the majority believes > in this? Without civil disobedience, our black friends would not be our > black friends. They would simply be the niggers living screwing up our > neighborhoods. There would still be acceptable scientific theories > regarding the genetic superiority of certain races. > I wonder if you're qualified to discuss this circumstance. As it happens, that was the practice in the country where I was born. > > > > Are you saying that the laws where you are currently make the penalties > > > for infractions and misdemeanors the same as the penalty for shooting > > > Dick? > > > > > No, but perhaps they should be. The real offense is the violation of the social > > contract, not the petty misdemeanor. I didn't say, and certainly don't believe, > > that the best thing to do is make all penalties the same, but I do think and > > have stated that it would lead to better adherence to the law. > > Some of the most grave injustices are social contracts that were forced on > people. Sometimes simply "leaving" is not an option. > Why not? That's how I happen to be here instead of there. > > > I said that you don't just step off a cliff on a whim, and, therefore, it's > > reasonble to assume that, since the outcome would be the same, you wouldn't spit > > on the sidewalk if the penalty for that were capital. It's not, of course, but, > > clearly, if everyone gets to choose which laws he/she obeys and which not, then > > we're all in trouble. > > But if you accidentally step off a cliff, you still die. Are you saying > that, through no fault of your own, if you break the law, you should be > executed? I cannot and will not subscribe to this idea. > So, you believe that because a guy who kills with his car because he "accidentally" consumed that line of coke or third joint, or fifteenth beer, should be let go? > > > Think about it! One guy thinks it's OK for him to spit on the sidewalk. > > Another thinks it's OK to drive 40 mph in that 25 mph zone. He can afford to > > pay the fine. Acceptance of that means that the guy with a 7-figure income > > basically can ignore the "lesser" laws that carry penalties he can afford to > > pay. > > That's why we have license revocation and demerit points. Do you think > millionaires *like* to pay fines? No way. Millionaires become > millionaires (outside of the inheritance case) by being thrift-wise. > ... and you figure this is working? > > > Now, another guy thinks it's OK to have a couple of extra drinks before he > > drives home from the bar. He figures it's worth the risk, and he can afford to > > pay the fines, and he can afford to hire a lawyer to minimize what he does have > > to pay. In most states there no significant additional penalty for being drunk > > and killing half a dozen people than simply for causing a wreck resulting in > > jnjury because he's drunk. Is that the right way? Should he be able to make > > the choices resulting in the deaths of several people just because he can pay > > the fines and pay the lawyers? Should we tolerate that he do it again? How > > does that differ from the guy who gets drunk and shoots his neighbor in an > > argument? What about the guy who shoots his neighbor in an argument, but > > doesn't get drunk first? What if there was no argument first. What if he just > > sneaks up on the guy and shoots him? What if he does it in order to rob the > > guy? > > Well, ideally, the public defender should be the best attorney in the lot. > Ideally. > > > > What color is the sky there? > > > > > Same as where you are, but I'm really tired of folks ingoring the "minor" laws > > we, as a society, have put in place in order to make the community safer and > > more liveable, only to have some jerk who feels he's more important than the > > rest of us go off and do somethng that puts us, our safety, and our peace of > > mind at risk. The business with the illegal fireworks that everybody views with > > a blind eye seems a good example. Another one would be the really loud car > > stereo. > > You are aware that most of these "really loud stereos" don't violate noise > ordinance right? Even the ones with 4 12-inchers in a three-way bandpass. > You advocate communism. Everyone is the most important. That is what it > means to live in America. Move to Cuba. Or bettter yet, move to China. > Communism is a socioeconomic system not a legal structure. You are running out of logic, because you've, so far, refused to consider what I've said. I've suggested a single way, not necessarily the best, or even right, way, but a way which would get the job done. There have been lots of idle and thoughtless whines, but no positive contstructs put forth. It all started with someone's mention of how much fun it is to set of illegal fireworks. I simply mentioned that because people do that, I have to spend my 4th of July evening at home so I can put out the small fires on my roof and in my shrubbery because others don't obey the laws. > > > What it boils down to is that adherence to the social contract is, for some > > people, what they expect of others, though they don't expect to adhere to it > > themselves. I just believe that THAT is wrong. > > That is why I say that you value the society over its members. Let me say > that I don't completely disagree with you. It is just that it is not the > American way. Period. > That's not what they claim, though. It's said that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Your comment has nothing to do with the American way ... it's just YOUR way you're concerned about. > > Peace... Sridhar > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:40:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <007e01c107ee$31173560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, actually, you're wrong, in those two cases. A quick review of history will reveal that neither found his way to power that way. However, leaders like George-I, a mental midget by comparison with his predecessor Ronald R, Billary, and George-II, AKA DUBYA, came to power from the total lack of responsibility of the voting public. You don't suppose they're getting what they deserve? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > This is the kind of mentality that allowed demagogues like Hitler and > Stalin to flourish. > > (I didn't think you were serious, but I still had to respond.) > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > Darn right, overpopulation is at the root of most of our problems. And what > > > are we going to do about it? > > > > Ah, the solutions to that are very simple, and would result in > > more land being available for future generations: > > > > 1. Implement a child tax for people with more than two children and > > stop giving people tax breaks for having children. Give people tax > > breaks for not having children. > > 2. Do away with religions dogma that makes people believe that it's ok > > to go forth and multiply like rabits, flies, etc. > > 3. Intitute a ban on the building of new houses, unless for the purpose of > > replacement. Ban the building of business parks and other such commercial > > development that's destroying the woodlands and farms that we have left. > > Halt all new road construction. > > 4. Reduce immigration by at least 95 percent. > > 5. Spay and geld all illegal immigrants; then send them back home. > > > > and... > > > > 6. Have a revolution and then elect me to be the king. If elected, I > > promise that hacking shall be encouraged and promoted, and that PERQs, > > PDP-11/45s --- or at least blinken-light equipped, faster, > > and modern pseudo-equivalents of them, valved radios, audio amplifiers > > and large automobiles shall be manufactured in plentiful supply. > > ...and in addition, I'll not tax farm land. :-) > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:42:32 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <008601c107ee$832a8fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> As I said before, it's the same as it is for me dropping a couple of rounds through your ear. That by itself is, AFAIK, the only reason you're alive today, though I figure it wouldn't be worth even the price of the bullets to me. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > YOU're the one who doesn't like the laws, so YOU go! I obey the laws. > > I simply expect others to do that too. > > What's the penalty for kicking you square in the nuts? I'll gladly pay > it. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:46:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: How much is a partial Lisa worth? References: Message-ID: <008c01c107ef$04b60360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The FOO is right, folks, even fancy MAC's and the occasional LISA don't bring more than $25 in the Denver area thrift stores, and that's only if they're complete. The odd CPU or Monitor, or even CPU + mouse + keyboard won't bring much more than $5 if it's been opened. The sit for weeks with pricetags of $15 on them and end up in the dumpster. I think the requirement nowadays is for complete and working. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: RE: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > he won't get $300 for it on eBay, I guarantee you that. > > > > You underestimate the amount of stupid people who bid there, but with > > the decline in the value of stock options, people aren't buying as > > many overpriced vintage computers as they used to, I'd wager; at least > > not for as much as they used to. > > Exactly. The vintage computer market peaked a year ago, about the time > the stock market tanked and all the paper value that instigated $3,000 > Altairs and IMSAIs went "poof". > > > Still, I do agree. Working Lisa/MacXLs are going for $400-$500 or so. > > I still think that's a bit inflated. > > > I was going to go by tomorrow on the last day of the sale and a) see > > if it's still there, and b) offer him the $50 and see if he takes it. > > If he won't budge, I'm not going to give him what he asks. > > Good! Hold strong! :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:49:11 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas References: <007301c107d3$bf14f480$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <009e01c107ef$71127de0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You don't have to go to Indonesia for that sort of thing. We had a famous case here in Colorado regarding the practice of seizing personal assets of suspected drug dealers that I'll detail if anybody is interested in that sort of thing. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:30 AM Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The > > politicians in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. > > Agree. I studied Indonesia since I had a crush for one of its > expats and found this neat story: > > You're running a small business and on one day the liscenced > Air Conditioner inspector comes by and does his thing, then, > a few days later the Gvt Narcotics Police come by and "discover" > a small stash planted in guess where? That's Corruption. > BTW they just rotated their prime minister so there's some progress. > > John A. > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:50:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <000b01c10765$8ffb7fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <20010708174029.18356@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00a401c107ef$9a531980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> BOY! That would take a helluva large cupola of molten iron, wouldn't it? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Owad" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > > The Arkansas legislature passed a law that states that the Arkansas > > River can rise no higher than to the Main Street bridge in Little > > Rock. > > Has it obeyed? > > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 15:52:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) References: Message-ID: <00aa01c107ef$e6d54800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you were using Outlook Express, you could expunge the titles you don't anticipate reading with a little "Mail Rule" that would erase it as it comes in. Too bad one can't just skip the things. If I didn't have to read 'em as they come in, I wouldn't have to respond ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Jay West" Cc: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (enough already) > > On 09-Jul-2001 Jay West wrote: > > Ok, I'll be the first to beg - can we end this thread on politics and > > get back to classic computers? > > Hear hear! Deleting all this crap each time i download my mail is > annoying and time-wasting. > > -Philip > > From MTPro at aol.com Sun Jul 8 15:59:44 2001 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! Message-ID: <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> Be considerate, then reflect on your OT views. I am sick and tired of this BS! Knock it off. HELLO, anybody monitoring this mess?! Enough, start kicking people off already. And please everyone, stop quoting super long lines of previous messages. Are you too lazy to just keep it short for basic reference. If you must discuss politics, religion, etc. then do it by personal e-mail unless you are just strutting yourself online. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 16:07:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) References: Message-ID: <00b401c107f1$fd505e60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> A big part of the question would be whether the devices failed permanently, or just failed in that particular application. Hard failures with respect to address lines were common, and there were popularly distributed memory tests just for that sort of failure. I often ran into failures, not only with 2114's but in general, that didn't persist in a given device, and where replacement with another new or presumed healthy device would, eventually produce the same failure mode. I didn't attribute this sort of thing to device failure, however. It's pretty easy to develop the opinion that this device or that is more prone to failure than some other. I was convinced for a time that 'LS244's had an abnormally high failure risk associated with them, likewise, 1489's. However, it's often the way in which they're used, in these examples, certainly, that makes the difference, as both devices were often used in connection with external cables and equipment. Have you any examples of how you determined that there was an addressing failure? Was an address input shorted to some other line or supply on the 2114? I've seen that sort of thing happen with other memory devices, so it's certainly conceivable with these as well. The main problems I've run into myself have related to address-setup-to-nWE and data-valid-to-nWE rising edge, as well as write-data hold times, (often violated with 6502 and 68xx processors, BTW) which clearly is an application error and not a device failure. The relationship between nCS, nOE, and nWE to the settling of addresses and data can be pretty touchy in tightly timed circuits such as those used for sharing memory between a microprocessor and a video refresh logic set. That was one pretty common application in which I saw them fall down. I bought a bunch of Intersil 7114-HCC types (70 ns, so, MUCH faster than was normally required of 2114's) just to prove that a circuit was badly designed for the desired memory speed (memory speed determined cost, and cost targets were often paramount). The problems often went away with the faster RAM. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) > > > > While 2114's weren't the only common I/O SRAMs, they were the first in really > > separate data in and out. > > > > As for failures, I don't remember lots of trouble with them. I suspect that > > they were easier to use, and hence, less prone to misuse, in systems with a > > single write line rather than a write and a read, however. > > I don't think the problems I've exeprienced with 2114s are due to misuse. > For one thing, the chips worked fine for several years (i.e. they didn't > fail a few minutes/hours after swtich-on). The replacements also worked fine. > > Most of the faults I've had have been addressing errors. One address line > does nothing (so data written to 1 location shows up somewhere else). I > can accept that violating the timing specs could cause > contention between the output buffers in the 2114 and system data bus > drivers. But if it did any damage, it would most likely cook one of the > data output buffers in the 2114. Not an address input. > > -tony > > From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 8 16:11:59 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions References: <200107081906.f68J6Hk24430@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <004301c107f2$bebe30e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Eric said: > A VAXstation 3100 can run versions of OpenVMS later than 5.4. I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, but no uV3100. John A. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 16:18:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3B48ADBD.BD60AB40@internet1.net> Message-ID: <00c001c107f3$7ff38e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The energy problem is the result of too much government meddling in the market, through overt and covert subsidy of one industry or another. I could tolerate $10 per gallon gasoline if I didn't have to pay to make gas cheaper for others, and then pay out over half my income in taxes of one sort or another. If the GOV wouldn't let public land be used at ridiculously low cost to the oil/coal/lumber...(whatever)... industries, and wouldn't subsidize those industries through depletion allowances and things of that ilk, then we'd pay more for gasoline and possibly other forms of energy as we consume it, thereby making excessive consumption less transparent to us. We'd ultimately pay the same, though, but we'd be more aware of its cost, which might have effect on our behavior. We'd just pay with dollars with somewhat less taken out in the form of taxes earmarked for those subsidies. Likewise, if they'd stop taxing income (production) and tax consumption instead, we'd pay more for our butter, but it would be with untaxed dollars. Of course the GOV wouldn't get its rake off the top. Also, you can bet Detroit would build more efficient cars if folks had to pay $10 for a gallon of gas, even if it were with tax-free dollars. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 1:00 PM Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > Joe, > > I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > undersize. They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > appropriate updates on the power system. > > Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > It is part of a longer range solution. Drilling in new locations is > something a lot of countries are doing. Drilling in the North Sea is > being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. Something might > have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > joe wrote: > > Is that the same energy crisis that the oil industry keeps saying is > > being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones > > of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how > > drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery > > capacity! > > > > Joe > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 8 16:19:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas References: Message-ID: <00c801c107f3$ac8306c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's like saying, "I don't worry about the causes. I just complain about the effects." Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Dereksen" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 2:31 PM Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > I didn't make any observations about the corruption of the populace > here. Only the politicians. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's not the politicians that are corrupt. It's the citizens who don't hold up > > their end of the social contract. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Vance Dereksen" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:19 AM > > Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > > > > > > > > > > People in this country don't know what corruption can be. The politicians > > > in this country are (for the most part) very virtuous. Take Russia or > > > India. There's corruption. This is nothing. The "corruption" here is > > > basically the small amount that gets past the radar of the all-consuming > > > all-terrifying tyrannical American mob. Other countries don't have this > > > mechanism. It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in > > > that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our > > > politicians in line. > > > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > > > > > > > Some day there will be new frontiers on other planets but until then, > > > > > I don't see such an easy escape from the existing governments. Any > > > > > future revolutions we have in the US will have all the same problems > > > > > of revolutions in older established countries, say, France or Russia; > > > > > that of trying to cast off the old ways and being unable to really > > > > > completely start over, because the past is always there to haunt you. > > > > > > > > The problem is even with the intended ideals that the founders put in > > > > place, our political system still ended up becoming corrupt, with > > > > seemingly no way of correcting it short of Armageddon (although it did > > > > take 200 years for it to happen). > > > > > > > > Does this mean every couple of centuries we'll have to re-invent the > > > > United States on some other distant expanse of immaculate territory? > > > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Jul 8 16:22:40 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: <006101c107ea$8c5050a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I'm sorry, but I gotta respond to this one before stuffing 'Richard Erlacher' into my procmail black-hole... Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's not the politicians that are corrupt. It's the citizens who don't hold up > their end of the social contract. I've seen you use the phrase 'social contract' more than a dozen times in this thread, and am left with no option but to conclude that _you_ don't understand "the" social contract. Society doesn't value individuals based on how well they conform to the law. It values them on their contribution to society. One can have a separate debate on how to valuate such contributions, but the fact that seems to both be eluding you and the source of your frustration is this: society is self promoting and not willing to shoot itself in the foot simply to stand on principle. To illustrate this, I'll take the case of the prototypical "pot smoker" that you've held out as an example of someone flaunting the law. The US government is quite happy to extend TS clearances to people who have been arrested for crimes related to use, possession and cultivation -- even if they are _still_ using controlled substances -- as long as they admit to it. Why? Because the individuals have something that society -- as personified by government -- values highly, and as long as the individual admits to it -- and thus removes it as a possible source of blackmail -- society doesn't care. The NSA requires "lifestyle" questions on polygraph examinations, but on more than one occasion has backed down when a candidate told them to pound sand -- it turns out that "society" values the contribution of cryptomathmaticians far above conformance with the law. Where those curves cross is a direction function of the perceived contribution of the individual. Does this result in unequal administration of justice? Yes. Does that result in the infringement of the rights of others? No. There's no enumerated right in the constitution requiring that just because you might be prosecuted for a crime someone else must also be so prosecuted. This flexibility allows society to, in effect, optimize the risk that an individual poses to society against the reward that they present to society. Even if one were to create a highly inflexible and intolerant judicial system, where the responsibility of the defendant at trial (assuming there _is_ a trial) is to prove their innocence, and wherein even the most petty crimes resulted in death, "society" would still make exceptions -- no society can afford to place itself at a competitive disadvantage relative to other societies for any significant length of time. In another attempt to drag this back on topic, does anyone know where lift gate trucks can be rented in the south bay? Ideally for a one-way rental with drop-off in Sac or Reno? Sheesh, Chris. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 16:35:08 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <004301c107f2$bebe30e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200107081906.f68J6Hk24430@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708142703.03092270@209.185.79.193> At 05:11 PM 7/8/01 -0400, John wrote: >I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, >but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why >have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" >when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ >fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, >but no uV3100. No, this reflects a very interesting/troubling time for DEC and a situation that pervades the computer 'biz even today. "How do we get the most money out of the software?" Which is the fundamental question. So it started with "Mainframes" and time shared systems. One big system, hundreds of thousands of dollars, can only be afforded by sharing time on it with several people. When you paid $500,000 for a computer you didn't bat an eye at paying $30,000 to license the software that let you run it as a time share system. Now technology relentlessly marches forward and you can "create" this time sharing architecture in a "single user" machine. No way you're going to get $30,000 for software for that machine, so you dress it up for the end-user (leave out serverish things, add a frame buffer) and call that a VAXStation. But wait, its actually just a VAX underneath and maybe you can capture a few bucks by selling it to people who _want_ a time share system, but they don't have a machine room. Now we'll call that a "MicroVAX". Same hardware, different target, different name, and more importantly, software for the MicroVAX was _much_ more expensive than software for a VAXStation since it was for multiple users. It used to be that people found this out the hard way when they removed the frame buffer cards and suddenly the OS believes its on a MicroVAX rather than a VAXStation and the license PAKs all refuse to work. So the only difference between a MicroVAX 3100 and a VAXStation 3100 is that the ROM of the latter complains when there is no frame buffer :-) You can run them both headless or with heads, both will run VMS 7.2 (the latest), and both will run NetBSD 1.5 (also the latest). The Hobbyist licenses (currently screwed up at the moment) work in either mode. --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 8 16:56:45 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:28 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement... In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: Way too much computer stuff in my basement..." (Jul 8, 12:27) References: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> <5.0.0.25.2.20010708122614.024a22e0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <10107082256.ZM1053@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 12:27, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 01:48 PM 7/8/01 +0200, stefan wrote: > >You could try my site where I have an "Old Computer Market" where anybody > >can post there adds completely for free. Check it out at > >http://www.oldcomputercollection.com and select "Old Computer Market". > When I try to read these pages the text is totally obscured on the left > hand side by some weird dark blue graphic! > Oh, never mind its an "Internet Exploder Only" site ... It works fine for Netscape on my IRIX machines (with JavaScript and style sheets off). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 8 16:56:46 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Celebration (enough already)" (Jul 8, 14:52) References: <00aa01c107ef$e6d54800$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10107082256.ZM1057@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 14:52, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If you were using Outlook Express, you could expunge the titles you don't > anticipate reading with a little "Mail Rule" that would erase it as it comes in. > Too bad one can't just skip the things. If I didn't have to read 'em as they > come in, I wouldn't have to respond ... Richard, please take this elsewhere. You seem to be the one prolonging the agony even if you didn't start it. You've made your point, and only the insecure and childish have to respond every time. Try respecting your own social contract, or at least the part of that pertains to the list charter. I'm tired of downloading dozens of messages that have no place here and in case you haven't noticed, lots of people on the list use dialup lines, lots don't use Outlook, and writing little "Mail Rules" wouldn't save the download time anyway. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From als at thangorodrim.de Sun Jul 8 16:58:30 2001 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>; from edick@idcomm.com on Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 10:34:48AM -0600 References: <000f01c10639$92b62e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010708235830.D21193@frodo> On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 10:34:48AM -0600, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Never touch the stuff! > > It's OK to do stuff that's legal, but remember that I'm the advocate of > immediate and on-the-spot euthanasia for people with so pronounced a death-wish > as indicated by their willingness to violate a law, e.g. by spitting on the > sidewalk, speeding, or murdering a building full of people, with a written > apology issued in the unlikely even that someone unjustly punished complain > because their rights have been violated. It's got to be like violating a law, > any law, is equivalent to jumping from a plane at 40K feet with no parachute. > I've considered that in contrast with my recommendation that immersion in molten > iron be used to dispatch sidewalk spitters, corrupt politicians, and mass > murderers, etc, but, though I like the fact the punished will get the chance to > enjoy the trip, the flight could get to be too costly. Have you taken even one minute to think about this? Mandating the death penalty for spitting on the sidewalk? This fucked up idea can happily result in _major_ violence: - guy spits on sidewalk, - police man spots him, tries to arrest him (to send him off to the executioner) - guy realizes that his now in for death anyway, so things _can't_ possible get any worse. - guys just kills the police man - guy decides to at least have some fun before he is catched and killed - guy steals really big truck, lots of barrels full of fertilizer and some fuel oil (anybody saying ANFO?) some sticks of dynamite, blasting caps ... - guys drives directly into big government building and sets up his 10 ton ANFO bomb Mandating extreme punishment for even small misdemeanours simply promotes extreme escalation of violence for the simple reason that whatever you do _then_ - your punishment _can't_ get any harder (hey, you can only die once) so you might as well have some fun / do lots of damage to those trying to kill you. Modern law has generally accepted the idea that the punishment should match the crime (i.e.: steal a candy bar - pay for it and do some hours of community work, kill a person - off to the executioner with you (in some countries) or behind bars for a very long time). Regards, Alex. -- We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being increasingly capable. -- Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs From jimdavis at gorge.net Sun Jul 8 17:23:46 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! References: <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> Bwahahaha, This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. Piss off AOL boy. MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > Be considerate, then reflect on your OT views. I am sick and tired of this > BS! Knock it off. HELLO, anybody monitoring this mess?! Enough, start kicking > people off already. And please everyone, stop quoting super long lines of > previous messages. Are you too lazy to just keep it short for basic > reference. If you must discuss politics, religion, etc. then do it by > personal e-mail unless you are just strutting yourself online. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 8 13:15:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 8, 1 05:23:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010708/947be95b/attachment.ksh From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 8 17:51:17 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! References: <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> Message-ID: <000d01c10800$81020520$88f8fea9@98box> I must agree... from what i have seen in my little time on this list, this group is all about off-topic posting and arguments...... sorta like USENET. If someone wants to post OT, then why not? No substitute for someone who uses AOL though. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Davis To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! > Bwahahaha, > This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and > office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. > > Piss off AOL boy. > > MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > > > Be considerate, then reflect on your OT views. I am sick and tired of this > > BS! Knock it off. HELLO, anybody monitoring this mess?! Enough, start kicking > > people off already. And please everyone, stop quoting super long lines of > > previous messages. Are you too lazy to just keep it short for basic > > reference. If you must discuss politics, religion, etc. then do it by > > personal e-mail unless you are just strutting yourself online. From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Jul 8 18:01:53 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Celebration (enough already) In-Reply-To: <00d601c10837$33aec600$858953d1@jay> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010708185736.00a72700@mail.wincom.net> At 12:22 AM 09/07/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Ok, I'll be the first to beg - can we end this thread on politics and get >back to classic computers? > >Jay West My abject apologies for starting the thread. I didn't think it would get out of hand. Regarding the War of 1812, I just saw on Detroit TV that they are celebrating the anniversary of the date that we gave it back. Probably the smartest thing we ever did. I do wish your side had held on to Toronto when you had it. Cheers Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Jul 8 18:17:46 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <004301c107f2$bebe30e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: A VS3100 isn't a "crippled" version of the hardware, but you wouldn't want multiple users slowing down your graphics updates. So DEC decided to market a VS3100 as a single user system where the full CPU power was available for graphics intensive applications, and the uVAX3100 as a multi-user machine. You CAN install a multi user VMS license pak on a VS3100 and have more than one person log in. DEC did offer a crippled version of the uVAX II (Or was it a VSII/GPX?), that had most of the expansion slots filled with epoxy to prevent upgrades. This was sold at a steep discount, but there was a run on replacement uVAX II qbus backplanes and the line was discontinued... Clint On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > Eric said: > > A VAXstation 3100 can run versions of OpenVMS later than 5.4. > > I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, > but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why > have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" > when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ > fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, > but no uV3100. > > John A. > > > From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 19:04:20 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708142703.03092270@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 08, 2001 02:35:08 PM Message-ID: <200107090004.f6904LZ25357@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Now technology relentlessly marches forward and you can "create" this time > sharing architecture in a "single user" machine. No way you're going to get > $30,000 for software for that machine, so you dress it up for the end-user > (leave out serverish things, add a frame buffer) and call that a VAXStation. > > But wait, its actually just a VAX underneath and maybe you can capture a > few bucks by selling it to people who _want_ a time share system, but they > don't have a machine room. Now we'll call that a "MicroVAX". > > Same hardware, different target, different name, and more importantly, > software for the MicroVAX was _much_ more expensive than software for a > VAXStation since it was for multiple users. There are hardware differences. Different bus, different design with different RAM addressing limits, different cache, etc. > It used to be that people found this out the hard way when they removed the > frame buffer cards and suddenly the OS believes its on a MicroVAX rather > than a VAXStation and the license PAKs all refuse to work. > > So the only difference between a MicroVAX 3100 and a VAXStation 3100 is > that the ROM of the latter complains when there is no frame buffer :-) Not quite. The MicroVAX 3100 and the VAXstation 3100 are completely different beasts. I have examples of both. The VS3100 has a frame buffer built-in to the motherboard, but you can change S3 to make the printer port the console port and run headless, and VMS won't complain, but you'll still have the same user limits as you would with the frame buffer. The MV3100 has extra serial ports and there isn't a built-in frame buffer and no connector to add one. When you pull the frame buffer from a VAXstation II it becomes a MicroVAX II. The VS3100 is still a VS3100 when you use a serial console. A VAXserver 3100 is a MicroVAX 3100 with different ROMs so it will by default only run a couple of local users (but that can be changed with the appropriate licenses). > You can run them both headless or with heads, both will run VMS 7.2 (the > latest), and both will run NetBSD 1.5 (also the latest). The Hobbyist > licenses (currently screwed up at the moment) work in either mode. V7.3 is the latest for the MicroVAX 3100. I'm not sure whether support for the VAXstation stopped at V7.2 or not (it isn't in the SPD). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From r.stek at snet.net Sun Jul 8 19:08:23 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: VCF East - item sales Message-ID: <000601c1080b$45034830$0301a8c0@bob> Sellam - I will be bringing some stuff to sell with me at the VCF. But with manning my booth, listening to speakers, and nosing around, I figured that I wouldn't have time to also sell stuff. So to support your efforts I thought I would just let VCF sell my stuff and take its percentage. But, to make things interesting (and to make up for bad karma earned by buying and selling on ebay), would you consider letting sellers do reverse auctions? E.g., between 9 and 12, item's price is $40, between 12 and 3 it's $30, and after 3 PM it's $20. Each seller could have a sheet of prices and times taped to items so it shouldn't impose any additional burden on your folks doing the selling. It would add a little incentive for folks to come back often in hopes of getting a better deal. And it would allow those of us with limited space to get at least a minimum amount so we don't have to truck it back home! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 19:31:17 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: BA440 Backplane Message-ID: <200107090031.f690VHL25454@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone have the part numbers for the new and old BA440 backplanes? If so, is "5019353-01 K2P1 54-19354" a new or old backplane? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 8 08:06:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1226.589T350T8464287optimus@canit.se> John Rollins skrev: >>You don't even need any particular tools, contrary >>to popular belief. Just a nice flat screwdriver, preferably a long one, >Actually, you do need a nice long Torx-15. Gotta be skinny to get the >screws underneath the handle on top. You don't really need one of >these cracker deals, I've never had a problem gently pulling back and >forth on the case to get it loose, although something to pry with >that won't mar the case is always handy and gets things going a >little faster. As I said, you don't need any fancy Torx drivers, just a preoperly dimensioned flat one and some patience. That's how I've opened the majority of my Macs up. >Glad I have an EN-SC, though. Don't have the network setup yet, but >I've got everything I need except the Cat5 cable. I think the Mac >drivers are still online. Hope I still have mine around... I believe mine has self-ignited, because it smells a bit and the installation software just hangs when it's plugged in. Now it's gained a useful purpose as an intermediary in the usergroup SCSI chain, alleviating the shortage of CEN50-CEN50 cables. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 8 18:03:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Lack of robustness with 1K and 4K RAM chips (was Re: 2116 and other old memory chips) In-Reply-To: <00b401c107f1$fd505e60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 8, 1 03:07:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/45dd0943/attachment.ksh From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 20:21:22 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas References: <200106301633.f5UGXXh23101@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3B3E05B9.93FB73C2@texoma.net> Message-ID: <3B490712.3AB5510F@greenbelt.com> I actually found Software Etc.!! It was only a few miles from where I was staying. I have family in Plano, and my bro-in-law asked me what a good laptop for him would be. We went to Software Etc. Then another bro-in-law was putting together a system for his son. We ended up back at Software Etc. for a second time. Being a used book store to boot also made that place my kind of store in a doubly sort of way. Eric "James L. Rice" wrote: > There is a surplus consignment store in Allen, a suburb, that has a lot > of pc oriented stuff. The name of the store is Software Etc. and it's > on the corner of Greenville and Bethany. The sometimes get big iron > and workstation stuff. They had some SGI Indy and Sun stuff a couple of > weeks ago. > > James > > Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > Anyone know of anything of interest in the Dallas, Texas are related to > > > vintage/classic computer stuff? I'll be there over the week of July 4th. > > > But I'm STILL trying to find away > > > to get to Boston area at the end of the month (VCF East), vacation hours > > > permitting. > > > > > > Anyway, any help with info about Big D and classic computers > > > appreciated. > > > > If you are going to be there next Saturday the First Saturday event > > will have a bit. > > -- > > Eric Dittman > > dittman@dittman.net From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 20:30:20 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas References: <200106302221.f5UMLxb23888@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Eric Dittman wrote: > > There is a surplus consignment store in Allen, a suburb, that has a lot > > of pc oriented stuff. The name of the store is Software Etc. and it's > > on the corner of Greenville and Bethany. The sometimes get big iron > > and workstation stuff. They had some SGI Indy and Sun stuff a couple of > > weeks ago. > > I posted about the SGI stuff here last week. They've still got two > of the Indys as of Thursday night. I didn't mention them as they > rarely have anything other than PC or Mac stuff. They are gone now! I was there on Thursday and saw them. By Saturday they were gone... Hey I picked up a pair of Apple II 5 1/4" floppy disk drives, with the black face and Apple logo for a $1 each at Software Etc. That was my big find other than an HP-12C at a garage sale $1. Those Planolians LOVE their garage sales and my extended family is no exception. The calculator works like a charm. Eric > > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 20:39:14 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 8, 1 05:23:03 am Message-ID: >Given that you've swapped out the analogue board, I think we can assume >the CRT voltages (and especially the EHT) are correct. I'd probably >measure them just to be sure (compare them against a working machine), >but you probably don't have an EHT voltmeter. WHAT! Excuse me, I have a Simpson VTVM with the high voltage probe. (someplace, sigh, someplace IN my office, double sigh). >This does sound like CRT problems, alas. Either the CRT is 'soft' (got >air in it -- any sign of blueish or purple glow around the electron gun > >Most likely, though, you need a new CRT. I left a good tube (I am pretty sure) at the boneyard when I grabbed the analog board I used for a swap, so Tuesday I'll bring it home. Sheesh I hate that, item open on my kitchen table, problem known, but my choice is either to wait a few days, or steal the part from a different (in this case MUCH less valuable) working system I have setting around. From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 20:42:26 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration References: Message-ID: <3B490C02.F2DCD34E@greenbelt.com> Wait, I thought it went something like this, "with THAT attitude, you will hardly qualify as the 51st state." Fill in the country of your choice. Eric Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. > > Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 20:49:43 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010701065825.00a6a470@mail.wincom.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010702085521.00a86a00@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B490DB7.15227530@greenbelt.com> joe wrote: > At 10:48 AM 7/1/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: > >On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > > > I would like to mention that while you Yanks are getting > > > ready to celebrate the 4th of July, TODAY is the day when we Canucks > > > put away our boots, parkas, and snow shovels, and raise a glass or two > > > of Canadian Club or Molsens Canadian, or maybe even Mooshead Beer in > > > memory of our great victory in the War of 1812. > > > >Greetings to our brethren in the 51st US state. > > Wrong! Puerto Rico is going to be the 51st state. Canada will be the > 52nd. (We have to keep our priorities straight.) :-) > I really think it depends on their respective attitudes. :) Eric > > Joe > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 8 20:48:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Asante EN SC In-Reply-To: <1226.589T350T8464287optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >>>You don't even need any particular tools, contrary >>>to popular belief. Just a nice flat screwdriver, preferably a long one, > >>Actually, you do need a nice long Torx-15. Gotta be skinny to get the > >As I said, you don't need any fancy Torx drivers, just a preoperly dimensioned >flat one and some patience. That's how I've opened the majority of my Macs up. I use a pocket two ended phillips/blade screwdriver and the blade is tapered and narrow enough to wedge in the Torx screw and open just about any I have found so far. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Jul 8 20:49:12 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) Message-ID: <51.df8a3f6.287a6798@aol.com> I didnt start the thread about the 4th of july and you're still talking about NON CLASSIC COMPUTER CRAP. for goodness sakes, take it alt.sociology.whine.whine.whine PLEASE! In a message dated 7/8/01 4:22:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edick@idcomm.com writes: << Well, SUPRDAVE, what was the topic? How relevant was a discussion of fireworks and 4th of July party practices to "classic computers?" Who started this thing, anyway. I know I didn't. >> -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 8 20:50:47 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Vintage/Classic Computer anything in Dallas, Texas In-Reply-To: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Jul 08, 2001 09:30:20 PM Message-ID: <200107090150.f691olJ25812@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > There is a surplus consignment store in Allen, a suburb, that has a lot > > > of pc oriented stuff. The name of the store is Software Etc. and it's > > > on the corner of Greenville and Bethany. The sometimes get big iron > > > and workstation stuff. They had some SGI Indy and Sun stuff a couple of > > > weeks ago. > > > > I posted about the SGI stuff here last week. They've still got two > > of the Indys as of Thursday night. I didn't mention them as they > > rarely have anything other than PC or Mac stuff. > > They are gone now! I was there on Thursday and saw them. By Saturday they > were gone... I was in there on Saturday and heard someone make that comment. Could that have been you? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From geoffr at zipcon.com Sun Jul 8 20:59:34 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.com (geoffr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: Wht is one worth? (roughly) From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 8 21:03:53 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: SGI Indy2 (geoffr) References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <15177.4361.702531.543145@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 8, geoffr wrote: > Wht is one worth? (roughly) Indy2? No such thing. You probably mean either Indy or Indigo2. Very different machines. Anywhere from $100 to $1000 depending on specific model, processor, memory, and video system. -Dave McGuire From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 8 21:48:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: COPY 190 Message-ID: <1770.590T2950T2287015optimus@canit.se> A month or so ago, we were given a large load of Commodore things - a C64, 2?1541-II, CP/M cartridge, mouse, GEOS, complete collection of "?tta bitar" magazines, and games, lots of games. Today I thought I'd try to transfer some games to disks, since I don't have any good experiences with cassettes, though this was my first encounter with turbo tapes, which do not require as much patience. Anyway, I first had some luck with smaller games (turbo games occupying about 20 blocks), which could just be loaded and then saved to disk. Others were simply too large for the BASIC and any results at SAVEing resulted in out of memory errors. Then we found a program called COPY 190 on one of the tapes. It looked very promising, presenting the user with a menu allowing for transfers between tapes and disks in any direction. Only it seemed to have one serious bug: it didn't handle file names with spaces, and just about every file on the tapes had spaces in them. Has anyone got any experience with this program or any tips? I first select "tape to disk", then the program prompts for a filename. Entering ARCHON works fine. It asks whether the tape uses a turbo, which it does, and then it waits for the tape to start. Then it finds ARCHON, which has no spaces in it, loads it into memory and writes it to the floppy. However, if I instead enter the name ARMY MOVES or "ARMY MOVES", it will find ARMY MOVES and load, then it will find the following file and load that one, and so on, without ever saving to floppy. Very frustrating. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Zeit kommt aus der Zukunft, die nicht existiert, in die Gegenwart, die keine Dauer hat, und geht in die Vergangenheit, die aufgeh?rt hat, zu bestehen. --- Augustinus (R?m. Kirchenlehrer, 354-430 n. Chr.) From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 8 21:52:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <004301c107f2$bebe30e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <976.590T1800T2325761optimus@canit.se> John Allain skrev: >Eric said: >> A VAXstation 3100 can run versions of OpenVMS later than 5.4. >I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, >but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why >have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" >when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ >fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, >but no uV3100. Anything -station is a single-user workstation with graphics (the very definition of a workstation), whereas anything micro- or -system is a multiuser system with several serial lines or network terminals. Neither is crippled, in the same way that neither a bike nor a lorry is crippled, they're just built for two different purposes though they both use wheels. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 8 21:18:20 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >Wht is one worth? (roughly) Depends if it is all there, including the OS, and the media for the OS. Still not a whole lot. Indy's are pretty slow. It's the Indigo2's that still have a surprising amount of value, but even they don't go for a whole lot (just more than I'm willing to pay for something that slow). BTW, is that an Indy2, or an Indigo2 you have? I didn't think there was an Indy2. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jul 8 21:19:21 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 questions In-Reply-To: <976.590T1800T2325761optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 09, 2001 03:52:36 AM Message-ID: <200107090219.UAA13578@calico.litterbox.com> Also, when you have the graphical head enabled on a 3100, the licence manager can sense that and you can load workstation licences. Otherwise you have to load server licences. You can make a vaxstation into a vax (at least from the licence manager's point of view) by throwing one jumper and running the box headless. > >I may have overspent my budget for pestering with that OT thing, > >but, a question here if I may. If a vS3100 can run VMS then why > >have a uVAX3100? I imagine that the stations are "crippled" > >when compared to the non-"stations". Can anyone back this up/ > >fill me in a little? P.S. I have two of the supposed cripples, no software, > >but no uV3100. > > Anything -station is a single-user workstation with graphics (the very > definition of a workstation), whereas anything micro- or -system is a > multiuser system with several serial lines or network terminals. > Neither is crippled, in the same way that neither a bike nor a lorry is > crippled, they're just built for two different purposes though they both use > wheels. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er > weist? > --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 20:33:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <008601c107ee$832a8fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > As I said before, it's the same as it is for me dropping a couple of > rounds through your ear. That by itself is, AFAIK, the only reason > you're alive today, though I figure it wouldn't be worth even the > price of the bullets to me. Hey Dick, are you threatening to murder me with a gun, in a public message on a public forum? I'm certainly taking it as such. That's pretty brainless considering this highly litigious society we live in, don't you think? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 20:49:10 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: VCF East BBS Now Online! Message-ID: The VCF East BBS is now online. You can get to it here: http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/bbs.php It is also available as a link from the VCF East pages. You can use it to post items you will be bringing to the VCF, or items you are looking for, or perhaps to schedule car pools, etc. Enjoy! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jul 8 20:54:08 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: VCF East - item sales In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Bob Stek wrote: > I will be bringing some stuff to sell with me at the VCF. But with > manning my booth, listening to speakers, and nosing around, I figured > that I wouldn't have time to also sell stuff. So to support your > efforts I thought I would just let VCF sell my stuff and take its > percentage. The consignment area at the VCF is a great way to sell stuff. My crack staff of vintage computer sprites will handle all the details for you :) http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/vendor.php3#consignment > But, to make things interesting (and to make up for bad karma earned > by buying and selling on ebay), would you consider letting sellers do > reverse auctions? E.g., between 9 and 12, item's price is $40, > between 12 and 3 it's $30, and after 3 PM it's $20. Each seller could > have a sheet of prices and times taped to items so it shouldn't impose > any additional burden on your folks doing the selling. This can be handled already within the existing consignment system. The way it works now, you specify a price you'd like to sell the item for and the minimum you will take. Any offers on the item between the sticker price and the minimum price will be accepted on your behalf (this is all explained on the consignment form). I can add columns to the sheet to specify pricing changes at certain hours. Those wanting to use this system can be free to do so. Good suggestion! > It would add a little incentive for folks to come back often in hopes > of getting a better deal. And it would allow those of us with limited > space to get at least a minimum amount so we don't have to truck it > back home! You got it! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 21:57:23 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: Message-ID: <3B491D93.8798AE03@greenbelt.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > hey do you have any ideas about using relays or some thing connected > > > >to a parallel or aerial port to control the power to an outlet, you know > > > >like a dimmer switch controlling motors ETC if you have any thought > > > >or ideas I'd be glad to hear them. > > > > > > X10, why reinvent the wheel? > > > > > > > Does anyone on this list use X-10 in one of their systems? And if so, > > what for? Just curious. > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > for about 30 years. 30 years?!?! Err, 2001 - 30 = 1971. Now, I remember going to RS to see this computer because, being a Mot 6800 fan, I had to see this box with a 6809 in it. That was 1978 or 1979. Do you mean 21 years? Eric > > - don From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:00:48 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: Message-ID: <3B491E60.6D30BA7E@greenbelt.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > > for about 30 years. > > Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very > early preproduction prototype of the Coco. Yes, that begs the question: how old is X-10? CoCo's are 20+, but how old is X-10? Eric From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:03:38 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: The Computer Journal References: <200106270258.TAA24836@mail.telisphere.com> Message-ID: <3B491F0A.31E29B6A@greenbelt.com> Gene Buckle wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:22:49 -0700, Albert Lee Mitchell wrote: > > No intent to defraud? Could have fooled me! > >When TCJ was owned by Bill Kibler they processed our > >credit card transactions, we were only a few miles apart > >and both Forthies. After Dave Baldwin took over TCJ my > >cost went up so we discouraged credit card transactions > >and only took a few overseas or medium-sized. > > Wow. This is just TOO weird. I _just_ sent a message with that > EXACT subject asking what was up with TCJ and I noticed this message > right after I hit 'send'. > > *wanders off scratching his head* Newton and Liebnitz (sp) discover calculus at the same time? Where is Rod Serling when you need him?! Eric > > > g. > > -- Gene Buckle, geneb@deltasoft.com on 06/26/2001 From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:08:30 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: Message-ID: <3B49202E.8BAB2D8F@greenbelt.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > > > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > > > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > > > for about 30 years. > > > > Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very > > early preproduction prototype of the Coco. > > > > I think you are exactly right! These CP/M guys fooling around with CoCo's. I guess we can forgive you for a small mistake like that! :^) Eric > > - don From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:18:31 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B492287.861EE23B@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > > > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is > > called dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make > > beer... > > More importantly, they practically invented the concept of "Medicinal > Marijuana". We should replace Utah with Jamaica. What then would we do with Orrin Hatch, mon? Eric > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:20:13 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B4922EC.484F5106@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > > > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is > > called dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make > > beer... > > More importantly, they practically invented the concept of "Medicinal > Marijuana". We should replace Utah with Jamaica. Also, wouldn't reggae be a step up (or three) from the Osmonds in the music dept? Eric > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:23:50 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B4923C6.4A3F02E5@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > > > Actually, that's *not* the Constitution... It's the Articles of > > Confederation. Different document that predates the Constitution by > > about ten years. > > Oops, sorry. My government class in 12th grade was a joke. The students > open challenged the teacher to fist fights during class and routinely > spoke over him, carrying on their own conversations. Subsequently, I > apparently didn't learn much. Sounds like East Palo Alto or Compton. Eric > > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:25:44 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B492437.32514F21@greenbelt.com> And da music, rhythm and music, goes well with music - One Draw. Eric "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > And the weed, mon. They have the bestest weed... > > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > > > Technically, Jamaica meets all those criteria... Their currency is called > > dollars, they speak English, mon, and I'm sure they make beer... > > > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 8 22:29:35 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010709032935.37527.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Repost of message for Ethan... Thanks! Replacements in place. All I need now is a pinout of the power harness - I'm assuming that black is GND, red is +5 and orange is +12, but I'm going to verify it before I apply power. Oh... that and some slurping software for DOS or UNIX. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:39:20 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: Message-ID: <3B492768.AAAC9B37@greenbelt.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Imagine having a neighbor kid hear "Star Spangled Banner" and ask "what song > > is that?" - and he went to a PRIVATE school. > > Wow! It sounds as though that boy's parents need to get him enrolled > in a tour of Ft. McHenry! ...if they know what that is, of course. > > > It seems so strange for it to be so quiet on the 4th these days. I wonder > if other parts of the US are as quiet as it is here in this suburb of > Maryland. Not the inner harbor of Baltimore. Geez, I live here and have never been. I'm feeling ashamed and now will have to make a day trip of it. Ripken's last year in the big leagues and I'm feeling guilty about Ft. McHenry and having never seen it! > > > Back when I was a kid, kids used to be running around shooting off cap > guns (I guess they're illegal now, thanks to the blasted tyranical > politically correct politicians) and lighting firecrackersd and M80s, > then, have we'd a cook-out followed by some marshmallow roasting and a > watermellon seed-spitting contest/battle, which was followed later on > in the evening with our own fireworks... fountains, exploding tanks, > bottle-rockets, whistling rockets, and other small pyrotechnic > displays such as pin-wheels, etc. :-) > > Of course, even back then it was marginally illegal here in Maryland; > we had to either have fireworks brought back from someplace like South > Carolina or else drive out west to where Maryland, Virgiana and West > Virginia meet and look for small stores in Virginia just over the > border that were selling the fireworks. > Fireworks can legally be purchased in DC or VA. > > Did you ever think about what the real reason for the personal > fireworks bans might be? Most likely it's not about safety---after > all sparklers, which are legal, are rather dangerous; the real reason > for the bans being as follows: anything that goes boom might give > people bad ideas as to what they can do, and thus make them think more > vividly about the revolution, tyrannical, tax-hungry and corrupt > politicians, and certain words of Thomas Jefferson about an uprising > every so often to keep this a free nation. Such thoughts ought not be > thunk by good little citizens, what? > You sound like a Texan misplaced in the libberal state of MD. Go west old man and be free... Eric > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:51:37 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <15171.37054.634559.948794@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3B492A49.5E6EC114@greenbelt.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 4, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate good > > sense." > > > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only industrialized > > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect those who are > > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from them. > > Yes, fighting Darwin all the way. I HATE that. Protect and coddle > the stupid so they can annoy the hell out of the rest of us, and > dilute the GOOD genes in the process. ARGH! Yes, it's called 'striving for mediocrity.' Eric > > > -Dave McGuire From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 22:55:01 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3B492B14.10D1E1C4@greenbelt.com> Geoff Roberts wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > good > > sense." > > No, but it doesn't stop the government from trying. > > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only > industrialized > > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect > those who are > > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from > them. > > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) Oops, I just came back from Texas, and they now have no helmet law. Used to have it and then didn't, but once did before that and will probably flip and then flop back once again. > > In South Australia (maybe others too) it is now illegal to ride a > bicycle without an approved bicycle crash helmet. $50 on the spot fine. > > Not silly in the sense that they save lives, but indicative of the depth > of interference in peoples lives by politicians needing to be seen to be > doing something. Or reacting to the current whim. Eric > > > cheers > > Geoff in Oz From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 8 22:52:04 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 8, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Depends if it is all there, including the OS, and the media for the OS. > Still not a whole lot. Indy's are pretty slow. It's the Indigo2's that I've an Indy with a 200MHz R4400 that's anything but slow. Granted the majority of them have crappy R4000s or R4600s, but beefier R4400 or R5000 machines are around. -Dave McGuire From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 8 23:00:02 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI Message-ID: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Did anybody see this? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 It went for $305.00! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 8 23:03:33 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (and NGEN systems back on topic) References: <001901c104c4$f5f72340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010704234813.02d99ae0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B492D15.5D90AD8E@greenbelt.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > At 10:38 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Times have changed. > > No they haven't. Perhaps they have and haven't? Eric From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Jul 9 01:05:08 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) References: <002101c1076e$fc4ebc60$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <3B494994.7E22220F@kcinter.net> Hello Claude, You could try out Sellyouritem.com, a relatively new auction site that does have a catagory for classic electronics. Bill "Claude.W" wrote: > Hi all > > Some of you probably have seen some of my posts. > > I have given away a lot of computer stuff vintage and semi-vintage and > traded a lot. I have trashed a lot lately. > > I recent years, I have accumulated way too much computer stuff (mostly > vintage and semi-vintage) in my basement...I can only trade so much and > trades arent really helping with the "space issue"... > > I dont wanna junk it and can see most of it can be used...I have paid some > money for most of this... > > I have always "boycotted" ebay as both a seller and a buyer...now online > auctions look like the only way to unload quickly the tons of stuff I > have... Ill have to pack and ship but I was ready to give it a > shot....rather then junk tons of working computers...and related equip... > > I have now gotten "cold feet" from signing up as a seller on US ebay (with > good reason!) since now they ask for both credit card and complete checking > bank account info!!! (how bout my fingerprints and social security no...?) > > Thats way too much info too have "floating around on the net" for me...even > just giving my credit card is "unconfortable" for me... > > I can only imagine the ebay seller sign-ups going way down now...I know > there is a lotta fraud on ebay but this is not a good idea for ebay IMO... > > I have also heard horror stories like paypal fetching funds from sellers > bank accounts when stuff was undelivered or problems happened...gee... > > I could sign up for ebay canada, they only ask for credit card info (weird > hey?) but would not be able to have the stuff listed on the US ebay....I > have to open up a new account and given the bank account info to be on US > ebay.... > > So anybody with any good alternatives to ebay? > > Claude > http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 8 23:09:36 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Message-ID: >Did anybody see this? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > >It went for $305.00! > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA What's so surprising about that? That's *very* cheap!!! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 23:18:21 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Not a bad deal considering that it is effectively two SCSI controllers on one card (two UC07's) and re-sellers won't sell you one for less than $500. I've got a UC07 that is borderline "spare" (its doing duty in the 3500 but may get swapped with a Viking) --Chuck At 12:00 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >Did anybody see this? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > >It went for $305.00! > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Jul 8 23:13:14 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:29 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010708211246.02b58d70@mail.zipcon.net> all I know of is the 2 chassis, one is purpleish and one is greenish? if that makes any difference At 11:52 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: >On July 8, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Depends if it is all there, including the OS, and the media for the OS. > > Still not a whole lot. Indy's are pretty slow. It's the Indigo2's that > > I've an Indy with a 200MHz R4400 that's anything but slow. Granted >the majority of them have crappy R4000s or R4600s, but beefier R4400 >or R5000 machines are around. > > -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 8 23:21:05 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: Ended auction for qbus SCSI (Chad Fernandez) References: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15177.12593.26032.422677@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Did anybody see this? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > > It went for $305.00! Does this surprise you? -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 8 23:36:44 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >On July 8, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Depends if it is all there, including the OS, and the media for the OS. >> Still not a whole lot. Indy's are pretty slow. It's the Indigo2's that > > I've an Indy with a 200MHz R4400 that's anything but slow. Granted >the majority of them have crappy R4000s or R4600s, but beefier R4400 >or R5000 machines are around. > > -Dave McGuire The problem is your 200Mhz R4400 is only slightly faster than one SM71 which is a SuperSparc II running at 75Mhz. My Sparc 20 with Dual SM71's feels slow at times, mainly when doing web browsing or software compiles. I'd love to have an SGI box, but they're even more expensive than Sun's or DEC Alpha's. An even bigger problem for me is you can have a x86 box running Solaris 8 that will totally blow away any moderatly fast SGI or Sparc system and will likely cost a lot less. My Dual 400Mhz Celeron running Linux pretty blows away any of my other systems with the possible exception of my Mac, and my DEC PWS 433au. I think the real issue is, I don't like slow UNIX systems! In part because I tend to use them in a very GUI fashion with lots and lots of colours, and I like lightening fast response. Even worse, I must confess I run 'enlightenment' for my Windowmanager both at home and at work (though with rather toned down themes), although I do run CDE on the Sparc 20. The worst part of this whole thing is the main app I run is 'xterm' :^) Though I do tend to run *lots* of them. OK, does that last paragraph sound as strange as I think it does :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 8 23:44:48 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B4936C0.841B7CF1@internet1.net> Wow, I knew they were pricey, but I didn't know they were that expensive! I guess I should have asked about it. If I knew it was two cards in one, maybe I would have bid. I would very much like to put a scsi card into my MicroVax 3400. You say, "two scsi controllers on one card", so would that be the same as dual channel? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > > Not a bad deal considering that it is effectively two SCSI controllers on > one card (two UC07's) and re-sellers won't sell you one for less than $500. > I've got a UC07 that is borderline "spare" (its doing duty in the 3500 but > may get swapped with a Viking) > > --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 8 23:56:06 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215158.025c05d0@209.185.79.193> At 12:00 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >It (Emulex UC08-III) went for $305.00! Discount Computer Products has 9 in stock, $749 each. :-) I'm sure they will let them go for a bit less though. Its important to realize that Ebay here is actually _cheaper_ than you can buy them elsewhere and so its a "good thing" :-) --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jul 9 00:04:15 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B4936C0.841B7CF1@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215801.025c0480@209.185.79.193> At 12:44 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >Wow, I knew they were pricey, but I didn't know they were that >expensive! I guess I should have asked about it. If I knew it was two >cards in one, maybe I would have bid. I would very much like to put a >scsi card into my MicroVax 3400. > >You say, "two scsi controllers on one card", so would that be the same >as dual channel? Yes, Emulex didn't come out with a controller that could do both Disk devices (MSCP) and tape devices (TMSCP) on the same SCSI string as far as I can tell. Instead they took the UC07 (which will control either disk or tape but not both) and doubled it up. This particular version is the UC08-III which has the S-box handles, the UC08 (no suffix) just has dual 50 pin headers). They also sold a UC07 that was a dual wide card and a UC07 that was the same board as the UC08 only it was half populated. This was different that CMD (the other most popular SCSI controller for Qbus) with their CQD series which could, on some models, do both tape and scsi on the same string. In my order of desirability they go CQD-xxx (both disk and tape on one string UC07/8 SQ739 (Dilog's version of a card similar to the CMD card) VIK-QTD (Viking controller, a bit slower in my experience, harder to configure) There were others, Trimarchi, Standard MicroSystems, several rebadged Vikings, and CMS. But since DEC was pushing DSSI they really discouraged using SCSI controllers. :-) --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 00:03:18 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001d01c10834$77e1e8a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No, Sam, it's not a threat of murder, which you'd know if you'd learn to read. Literacy issues aside, however, up to a point it's interesting that you always stake out one extreme and I stake out another. I guess it's true that where you sit determines what you see. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > As I said before, it's the same as it is for me dropping a couple of > > rounds through your ear. That by itself is, AFAIK, the only reason > > you're alive today, though I figure it wouldn't be worth even the > > price of the bullets to me. > > Hey Dick, are you threatening to murder me with a gun, in a public message > on a public forum? I'm certainly taking it as such. > > That's pretty brainless considering this highly litigious society we live > in, don't you think? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 00:08:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <004f01c10835$23b8ff60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's about what we used to pay for the Emulex SCSI cards back in '86-'87. They were good boards! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 10:18 PM Subject: Re: Ended auction for qbus SCSI > Not a bad deal considering that it is effectively two SCSI controllers on > one card (two UC07's) and re-sellers won't sell you one for less than $500. > I've got a UC07 that is borderline "spare" (its doing duty in the 3500 but > may get swapped with a Viking) > > --Chuck > > At 12:00 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Did anybody see this? > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > > > >It went for $305.00! > > > >Chad Fernandez > >Michigan, USA > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 00:20:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215801.025c0480@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <006501c10836$e5c602a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> At Martin, we used an early Emulex single-channel board that was considered about the least costly. The original plan was to use it to talk to WORM drives with which we replaced the TK-50, but after we found that the MAXTOR 3380 (later called 4380S), which was $1k cheaper than the 4380E (ESDI) of which we were using two, together with an EMULEX ESDI (QBUS) board, which cost about $2300 or so, we decided we liked the all-SCSI solution. It outperformed the ESDI approach by quite a little too. Unfortunately, though several vendors claimed to have SCSI WORM drives, they were all one sort or another of "modified ESDI," which meant they were all different but not standard ESDI. Apparently Lockheed had spec'd a form of nonstandard ESDI for the flight data recorder on the F-16 and they owned a subsidiary (Cherokee Electronics) that built a WORM drive with that interface. Although nobody had one working properly at the time, everybody had a version. We had to build a SCSI<=>ESDI bridge in order to demonstrate the concept. Not being terribly easy to impress, particularly with DEC-systems, I have to admit, I was VERY impressed with the way in which the little EMULEX SCSI board outperformed their own ESDI board while cutting our rotating memory system cost by nearly half. Everybody talked about the 15Mbit transfer rate on the ESDI card, yet the SCSI, which, under exhaustive testing averaged about 250 KBps under MSCP outperformed the ESDI hands down. This suggests a really decent and feature-rich implementation of the SCSI extended command set, allowing for command queueing, operation overlaps, disconnect/reconnect, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 11:04 PM Subject: Re: Ended auction for qbus SCSI > At 12:44 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > >Wow, I knew they were pricey, but I didn't know they were that > >expensive! I guess I should have asked about it. If I knew it was two > >cards in one, maybe I would have bid. I would very much like to put a > >scsi card into my MicroVax 3400. > > > >You say, "two scsi controllers on one card", so would that be the same > >as dual channel? > > Yes, Emulex didn't come out with a controller that could do both Disk > devices (MSCP) and tape devices (TMSCP) on the same SCSI string as far as I > can tell. Instead they took the UC07 (which will control either disk or > tape but not both) and doubled it up. This particular version is the > UC08-III which has the S-box handles, the UC08 (no suffix) just has dual 50 > pin headers). They also sold a UC07 that was a dual wide card and a UC07 > that was the same board as the UC08 only it was half populated. > > This was different that CMD (the other most popular SCSI controller for > Qbus) with their CQD series which could, on some models, do both tape and > scsi on the same string. In my order of desirability they go > CQD-xxx (both disk and tape on one string > UC07/8 > SQ739 (Dilog's version of a card similar to the CMD card) > VIK-QTD (Viking controller, a bit slower in my experience, harder to > configure) > > There were others, Trimarchi, Standard MicroSystems, several rebadged > Vikings, and CMS. > But since DEC was pushing DSSI they really discouraged using SCSI > controllers. :-) > > --Chuck > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 9 00:24:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215801.025c0480@209.185.79.193> References: <3B4936C0.841B7CF1@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010708211703.0293b0b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: > CQD-xxx (both disk and tape on one string > VIK-QTD (Viking controller, a bit slower in my experience, harder The CMD cards are probably the best, but I really like my Vikings. I've got two removable hard drive, a CD-ROM and a TZ30 on one in my PDP-11/73. It might not be as fast as a CMD board, but it's a solid reliable board. Of course if I ever get my hands on a CMD board, it'll be replacing the Viking in a heartbeat. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ncherry at home.com Mon Jul 9 00:35:36 2001 From: ncherry at home.com (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: <3B491E60.6D30BA7E@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3B4942A8.EC83EA35@home.com> Eric Chomko wrote: > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > > > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > > > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > > > for about 30 years. > > > > Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very > > early preproduction prototype of the Coco. > > Yes, that begs the question: how old is X-10? CoCo's are 20+, but how old is > X-10? > > Eric X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was in 1979. So it's a lot closer to 22 years old. Motorola had limited produced the 6809 in 78/79 (no where near '71). Wasn't this issue cleared up before? I think Don just missed a digit by one. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 01:06:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001d01c10834$77e1e8a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > No, Sam, it's not a threat of murder, which you'd know if you'd learn > to read. Would you like me to pass your e-mail message on to your local law enforcement and let them decide? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 02:28:03 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) References: <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <15177.23811.335743.780909@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 8, Zane H. Healy wrote: > The problem is your 200Mhz R4400 is only slightly faster than one SM71 > which is a SuperSparc II running at 75Mhz. My Sparc 20 with Dual SM71's > feels slow at times, mainly when doing web browsing or software compiles. Hmm...you running Solaris on that SS20? That might explain it. ;) > I'd love to have an SGI box, but they're even more expensive than Sun's or > DEC Alpha's. An even bigger problem for me is you can have a x86 box > running Solaris 8 that will totally blow away any moderatly fast SGI or > Sparc system and will likely cost a lot less. My Dual 400Mhz Celeron > running Linux pretty blows away any of my other systems with the possible > exception of my Mac, and my DEC PWS 433au. Yeah, sure...until you try to do more than one thing at a time. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 02:30:14 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) (Neil Cherry) Message-ID: <15177.23942.846938.439218@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3B491E60.6D30BA7E@greenbelt.com> <3B4942A8.EC83EA35@home.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 8) "Bryce Canyon" XEmacs Lucid FCC: ~/Mail/sent-mail On July 9, Neil Cherry wrote: > X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was > in 1979. So it's a lot closer to 22 years old. Motorola had limited > produced the 6809 in 78/79 (no where near '71). Wasn't this issue > cleared up before? I think Don just missed a digit by one. X10 was originally marketed by BSR, if memory serves. -Dave McGuire From mauger at senet.com.au Mon Jul 9 03:49:14 2001 From: mauger at senet.com.au (Mauger Family) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail Message-ID: <006901c10854$08c83c60$581610ac@mauger> Hi, I'm interested in finding someone who might have experience in downloading data from an old NEC APC to a current Pentium machine. Alan Mauger mauger@senet.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/339d457d/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 9 05:31:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: HP Exemplar In-Reply-To: References: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: I am kinda curious, an HP Exemplar (with 16 processors, but not many drives) recently passed through a surplus joint I visit along with a jukebox for magnetoptical discs. Both gone now, did I miss something neat? From terryc at woa.com.au Mon Jul 9 06:02:05 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: HP Exemplar References: <15177.10852.144454.383431@phaduka.neurotica.com> Re: SGI Indy2 (Zane H. Healy) <3B49092C.E72270EF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3B498F2C.E97C66E@woa.com.au> Mike Ford wrote: > > I am kinda curious, an HP Exemplar (with 16 processors, but not many > drives) recently passed through a surplus joint I visit along with a > jukebox for magnetoptical discs. Both gone now, did I miss something neat? I don't know about the HP Exemplar, but the juke box is nothing special. In my experience they were very unreliable and dodgy. In years past, I've often had my dual cubicle filled with transport cases from HP support awaiting the engineer to spend a day or two trying to diagnose the latest fault. It would have been far quicker if they had wheeled in a replacement and swapped the 30 MO platters. Apparently the robotics were exceedingly flaky. I often throught they would have been great if they could have been adapted as a CDrom jukebox, but even in Oz, the economics of putting the CD contents onto hard disk soon took over. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 9 06:57:36 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: BA440 Backplane In-Reply-To: <200107090031.f690VHL25454@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200107091157.NAA06273@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 8 Jul, Eric Dittman wrote: [BA440 backplanes] > If so, is "5019353-01 K2P1 54-19354" a new or old > backplane? This must be the new one. I have a backplane with these numbers in my VAX 4000-300, that I successfully upgraded to a -400. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Jul 9 06:51:41 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: NEC-APC to PC In-Reply-To: <006901c10854$08c83c60$581610ac@mauger> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010709073509.00a563f0@mail.wincom.net> At 06:19 PM 09/07/2001 +0930, you wrote: >Hi, >I'm interested in finding someone who might have experience in downloading >data from an old NEC APC to a current Pentium machine. > >Alan Mauger >mauger@senet.com.au I can't say I have had experience in transferring data, but am working on it. We are running an APC through a null modem cable to a 386-SX. We have them talking to each other, but haven't gone any further due to other projects. We are using Modem86 on the APC and PCPlus on the 386. The APC uses a special cable and I will email the instructions if you need them. Is your data on MS-DOS or CP/M? Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 07:25:20 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <3B492B14.10D1E1C4@greenbelt.com> References: <000f01c104d0$3e95d500$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <006701c104e8$61092e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709082227.00abb8d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:55 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: >Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 6:58 AM > > Subject: Re: RE: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > > It all supports the Californian conclusion that "you can't legislate > > good > > > sense." > > > > No, but it doesn't stop the government from trying. > > > > > It's worth noting, however, that the U.S. is about the only > > industrialized > > > country in the world that bends over as far as it does to protect > > those who are > > > STUPID while doing absolutely nothing to protect the rest of us from > > them. > > > > Uh, you've obviously never lived in Australia. > > In all States it is illegal to ride a motorcycle without an approved > > crash helmet. $200 on the spot fine.(Varies from state to state) > >Oops, I just came back from Texas, and they now have no helmet law. Florida recently dropped their motorcycle helmet law too. Or rather you don't hav eto wear a helmet if you have insurance. If you don't have insurance then you still have to wear a helmet. Strangely, you still have to wear a helmet to ride a bicycle! >Used to have it and then didn't, but once did before that and will probably >flip and then flop back once again. Yeap, that's politics! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 08:25:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B48ADBD.BD60AB40@internet1.net> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >Joe, > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or >undersize. I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in this country in the last ten years. > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without >appropriate updates on the power system. That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. >It is part of a longer range solution. Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil than it is to produce our own. If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run out of hot water. > Drilling in new locations is >something a lot of countries are doing. Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and because it's a huge source of revenue. > Drilling in the North Sea is >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other problems. > Something might >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 08:30:33 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010707201718.00ab0dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709092644.00a1c7d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Tony, It must be something like that, I'll have to experiment with it. I do have the "operator's instructions" for it do you want a copy? They explain the controls but that's about all. FWIW I have a second box that doesn't do the self test. The display and other indicators ont he bottom never come on. However the signal LEDs seem to work ok. I guess I need to work on it when I have time. Joe At 07:01 PM 7/8/01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > Does anyone have the technical manual for the Navtel SuperTest 25 > RS-232 > >Alas not. I have the unit, though... > > > breakout box? I need to know how to make it act like as a DCE. It's a > >I think you have to turn off the 10 DIP switches in the bottom bank >(above the display) and then use patch leads to link the pins between >that DIP switch and the display (which carry the test signals) to the >appropriate pins on the breakout box part. > >-tony From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Jul 9 08:44:28 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give credit card AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <3B494994.7E22220F@kcinter.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: > Hello Claude, > > You could try out Sellyouritem.com, a relatively new auction site that does > have a catagory for classic electronics. > I wouldn't waste the time. I put a couple of SUN VME boards up with auto-relist. After three auction periods I had 0 bids and only 4 hits on the items at all (and at least one of them, probably 2 as I warched it from home too, were me). bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From jruschme at mac.com Mon Jul 9 08:58:44 2001 From: jruschme at mac.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: SCSI Ethernet adapters (was: How much is a partial Lisa worth?) References: <200107081858.NAA95959@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B49B894.4030000@mac.com> > > >Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:40:53 -0700 >From: Mike Ford >Subject: Re: How much is a partial Lisa worth? > >>>No kidding. The seller is a Mac shop that's closing its doors. Most >>>of his stuff is overpriced, so I assumed that this was too - he's >>>asking $300. I did pick up a couple of Asante boxy SCSI<->Ethernet >>>adapters, complete with docs, cables and software for $8, bare box >>>only, $5. >>> >>Whoa! and where?! I think I missed the original message. Been looking for >>a SCSI ENet dongle for my SE/30 for some time! >> > >They aren't rare, I am sure you had one in your hand last time you were >here. Asante EN SC, but I wouldn't use one for a SE/30 unless there was a >good reason why I couldn't use an internal card. > Mike, you've seen more than I have, but based on my experience, I'd say the the most common ones are the Dayna and the Asante ones. The rarest would seem to be the Cabletron (the only one only one with a publised API) and the Kinetics. Personally, I'd love to find a Kinetics one just to test a theory that it is command compatible with the Cabletron. As for why not use an internal SE/30 card? Probably the best reason is if you've already got the Xceed video card. :-) <<>> From David.Neal at ubsw.com Mon Jul 9 08:57:04 2001 From: David.Neal at ubsw.com (David.Neal@ubsw.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) Message-ID: bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an 'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come along a offer to take it away for free ). Cheers D -----Original Message----- From: rigdonj Sent: 09 July 2001 14:25 To: classiccmp Cc: rigdonj Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >Joe, > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or >undersize. I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in this country in the last ten years. > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without >appropriate updates on the power system. That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. >It is part of a longer range solution. Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil than it is to produce our own. If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run out of hot water. > Drilling in new locations is >something a lot of countries are doing. Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and because it's a huge source of revenue. > Drilling in the North Sea is >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other problems. > Something might >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! Joe Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Jul 9 07:34:03 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010709083403.00f50f6c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 12:19 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: >It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in >that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our >politicians in line. > >Peace... Sridhar I'd rather say that the American public does a lousy job of keeping its perception of reality in line. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From lance at costanzo.net Mon Jul 9 09:13:05 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> At 03:30 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >On July 9, Neil Cherry wrote: >> X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was > X10 was originally marketed by BSR, if memory serves. According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/oct99/articles/rye/rye.htm Some interesting bits on development and manufacturing, too. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 9 09:23:09 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: The Computer Journal In-Reply-To: <3B491F0A.31E29B6A@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: > > Wow. This is just TOO weird. I _just_ sent a message with that > > EXACT subject asking what was up with TCJ and I noticed this message > > right after I hit 'send'. > > > > *wanders off scratching his head* > > Newton and Liebnitz (sp) discover calculus at the same time? > > Where is Rod Serling when you need him?! > He's probably kicking back with Gary Kildall. :) What sucks is that I _still_ don't know what happened to TCJ. g. From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 9 09:21:40 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: References: <001901c1063a$2ce8ab00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010709085129.00b68680@pc> At 07:05 AM 7/7/01 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >We should also make it the punishment for being a curmudgeonly old >bastard. No, we'll grind them up and make Soylent Green. Next time they're driving too slow for conditions or leave the turn signal on, we'll nab them. Death will teach them a lesson they won't forget, let me tell you. - John From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 09:38:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <001801c10884$d8c9e5a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Sure, go ahead, but include the entire thread, will you. I bet you don't have the stones to do that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 12:06 AM Subject: Re: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > No, Sam, it's not a threat of murder, which you'd know if you'd learn > > to read. > > Would you like me to pass your e-mail message on to your local law > enforcement and let them decide? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 09:41:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were require to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > >Joe, > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > >undersize. > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > this country in the last ten years. > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > than it is to produce our own. > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > out of hot water. > > > > Drilling in new locations is > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > problems. > > > > Something might > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > Joe > > From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 9 09:41:36 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <3B49C2A0.CA013811@internet1.net> I'm not sure what you mean..... are you saying you run your car on the oil that potatoe chips are cooked in?? Isn't it kind of thick? Is that what you are calling,"biodiesel"? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David.Neal@ubsw.com wrote: > > bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on > biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently > running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the > local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an > 'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come > along a offer to take it away for free ). > > Cheers > > D From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 09:43:04 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: Message-ID: <002a01c10885$7618e4a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've heard and smelled evidence of that. How well does it work? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:57 AM Subject: RE: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) > bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on > biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently > running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the > local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an > 'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come > along a offer to take it away for free ). > > Cheers > > D > > -----Original Message----- > From: rigdonj > Sent: 09 July 2001 14:25 > To: classiccmp > Cc: rigdonj > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be > offensive, possible humor) > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > >Joe, > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line > and > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > >undersize. > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the > refineries in > this country in the last ten years. > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power > industry > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in > California) > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil > shortage. > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a > couple > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason > that > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record > profits! > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the > middle > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their > oil > than it is to produce our own. > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then > they > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best > practicle > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production > cars > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if > not > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never > run > out of hot water. > > > > Drilling in new locations is > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources > and > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do > with > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but > maybe > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also > has > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. > A > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > problems. > > > > Something might > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the > alcohol > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly > pure > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons > added > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that > it's > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people > won't be > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till > something > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > Joe > > > > Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. > > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If > verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This > message is provided for informational purposes and should not be > construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or > related financial instruments. > > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Jul 9 09:48:13 2001 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: (fwd) Windows 286 and Lotus 123 for DOS 3.4 Upgrade Message-ID: If anyone has any interest in this stuff, please contact this gentleman directly. On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:25:14 -0500, "Jonathan Stirrup" wrote: >Bill, > > My name is Jon. I was rooting through some old junk and low and behold I >found an unopened Windows/286 and an unopened Lotus 123 for DOS 3.4 Upgrade. >I know a lot about current software, but I am a novice at old software. I >search on the internet for information on the Windows/286 and came across >your page. I have no Idea if I may stumbled onto something collectable or >not. Any opinion? Thanks. > >Regards, > >Jon > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 09:48:01 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Stupid discussions References: <3.0.2.32.20010709083403.00f50f6c@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <003001c10886$272d3ac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The discussion has become stupid, if only because everybody complains, yet I'm the only one, so far, that's presented a positive construct. Everybody else just opposes whatever anyone else says. What does that tell you? There's a wide range of what folks perceive as reality. At one extreme are folks like me who think the law should be strictly obeyed, and at another extreme are guys like Sellam, and he's not alone in this, who believe that everybody should do what he, Sellam, wants. There are probably other, equally extreme positions. Somewhere, however, there must be a common ground. The trick is for people to look for that common ground rather than trying to go off by themselves to do what they want, irrespective of anyone else's rights. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 6:34 AM Subject: Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas > At 12:19 PM 7/8/01 -0400, you wrote: > >It's ok to be idealistic, but we must also be realistic in > >that the American public does a *pretty* good job of keeping our > >politicians in line. > > > >Peace... Sridhar > > I'd rather say that the American public does a lousy job of keeping its > perception of reality in line. > > carlos. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Jul 9 09:56:54 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give creditcard AND bank account info!) References: Message-ID: <3B49C635.6E0E6E80@kcinter.net> Hello Bill, I respectfully disagree, Sellyouritem.com is a new site and does have the category for classic equipment. There are many folks that have had bids. Everyone keeps saying that they are wanting to have an alternative to the high fees at ebay, yet no one seems to want to do what it takes to create that alternative. It seems to me that folks on this list have stated many times that they want a place to put their wares, yet here is one place that is willing to work with the users and some are not wanting to give it a chance. Rome wasn't built in a day nor was ebay. Bill Bill Gunshannon wrote: > On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > > Hello Claude, > > > > You could try out Sellyouritem.com, a relatively new auction site that does > > have a catagory for classic electronics. > > > > I wouldn't waste the time. I put a couple of SUN VME boards up with > auto-relist. After three auction periods I had 0 bids and only 4 hits > on the items at all (and at least one of them, probably 2 as I warched > it from home too, were me). > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 10:00:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709105244.00a15c60@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:57 PM 7/9/01 +0100, David wrote: >bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on >biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently >running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the >local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an >'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come >along a offer to take it away for free ). That's great. That's exact the kind of inventiveness that is needed to solve the energy crisis. However I think you'll agree that it would be rediculous to require that ALL cars run on chip oil. There simply isn't enough of it around. That's the same problem with alcohol, there isn't enough for it to be a viable fuel source. Yes, we could make more but at what price and with what kind of sacrifices? (more grain used to produce alcohol = less grain for food producton = higher food prices). Like it or not, gasoline will remain the major fuel source for the forseeable future. Joe From owad at applefritter.com Mon Jul 9 10:06:49 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 Message-ID: <20010709150649.29084@mail.earthlink.net> What's the proper way of removing cards from a Sparcserver 470? I thought you just pushed out on those plastic tabs and the card would disconnect and could then be pulled out. They're not budging and I even broke one of those plastic tabs trying to get them out. Am I doing something wrong? Any other way to get the things out of there? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From David.Neal at ubsw.com Mon Jul 9 10:10:00 2001 From: David.Neal at ubsw.com (David.Neal@ubsw.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) Message-ID: Well, yes. Strain out the bits, add some cheap, freely available chem's ( mainly to form the chemical chains ), then dump the crap in the tank and drive off, all in the back yard. Smells of a chip shop too. BioDiesel is really the term used for stuff like processed rape seed oil and the like. Currently ( in the UK ) this is taxed at a lower rate than oil based fossil fuel, but not as low as LPG, even though it's renewable. Believe other 'oil' planet can be used too, not sure of yield or processing requirements. -----Original Message----- From: fernande Sent: 09 July 2001 15:42 To: classiccmp Cc: fernande Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) I'm not sure what you mean..... are you saying you run your car on the oil that potatoe chips are cooked in?? Isn't it kind of thick? Is that what you are calling,"biodiesel"? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David.Neal@ubsw.com wrote: > > bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on > biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently > running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the > local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an > 'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come > along a offer to take it away for free ). > > Cheers > > D Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. From terryc at woa.com.au Mon Jul 9 10:06:21 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) References: <3B49C2A0.CA013811@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B49C86D.4C0AD172@woa.com.au> Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I'm not sure what you mean..... are you saying you run your car on the > oil that potatoe chips are cooked in?? Isn't it kind of thick? Is that > what you are calling,"biodiesel"? Yep, you can. We even know about that in Oz. Alternate Technology Assn has had recipes in their mag. Also, some country petrol (gas) has 10-20% (?) Ethanol in it here. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 9 10:22:26 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B49CC32.13AA5CAA@internet1.net> Joe, joe wrote: > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! Wow, I don't' usually get that kind of response :-) > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > this country in the last ten years. Why? Even if they import the oil, they still have to refine it? > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. Didn't I essentially say the same thing? I don't think the oil "crisis" has anything to do with the electricity "crisis". Our (US) electrical grid/system hasn't been upgraded to keep pace with demand and maybe not even kept current (no pun intended :-) I did hear that more power stations are being built more than ever before, However. I guess someone thought it was a good idea to build a few :-) > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > than it is to produce our own. What I have always heard, was that our oil, "Texas oil" wasn't the same quality as oil from the middle east, and that Alaskan oil was much closer in quality to oil from the middle east. I know our oil isn't all in Texas and Alaska, but those are the two big name places everyone in the US thinks of. How is drilling new wells, with fancy new technology cheaper than using existing wells with existing technology, i.e. wells and technology that are paid for and proven already? Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore. > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > mileage. Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore. > 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I don't think solar hot water heaters would work very well here in Michigan. We have to many clouds and overcast days, unfortunately. > I have one in my home and > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > out of hot water. How does it work? Is it homemade, or a commercial product? > > > Drilling in new locations is > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. Well my point wasn't really the engineering, that was a bonus :-) > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Then why do certain classes of race vehicles use it, if it isn't as powerful? > Alcohol also has > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. Doesn't it just take a switch to stainless steal for lines, tank, etc.? > A > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > problems. You mean gasohol... I remember that stuff :-) > > > Something might > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > That would cure the population problem! I don't buy the whole population problem deal either, but lets save that one for later :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 9 10:25:56 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709105244.00a15c60@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B49CD04.BE67E193@internet1.net> joe wrote: > There simply isn't > enough of it around. That's the same problem with alcohol, there isn't > enough for it to be a viable fuel source. How can you say that in a day that farmers get paid to plant less crops and the price of grain is low becasue of over supply? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 9 10:27:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> Message-ID: That is DEFINITELY a peice of info to hold onto if you're into home automation. I can definitely relate to his getting zapped in the electrical closet too as I was nailed once with 240VAC 400hz from one of our air launched cruise missile test racks but I was part of the circuit. I still have occasion to have a numb hand but of couse our wonderous VA system thinks that there's no disability so I deal with my regular retirement (no biggie). Seems Sears Roebuck was a customer before BSR as well on the X10 items even though BSR/X10 were involved in other things. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lance Costanzo -> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 9:13 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) -> -> -> At 03:30 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: -> >On July 9, Neil Cherry wrote: -> >> X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was -> > X10 was originally marketed by BSR, if memory serves. -> According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, -> RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. -> http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/oct99/articles/rye/rye.htm -> Some interesting bits on development and manufacturing, too. -> From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jul 9 10:41:51 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:30 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 In-Reply-To: <20010709150649.29084@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010709104151.00a46bc0@ubanproductions.com> There may be a screw that has to be removed before the card can be extracted. --tom At 11:06 AM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >What's the proper way of removing cards from a Sparcserver 470? I >thought you just pushed out on those plastic tabs and the card would >disconnect and could then be pulled out. > >They're not budging and I even broke one of those plastic tabs trying to >get them out. Am I doing something wrong? Any other way to get the >things out of there? > >Tom > >Applefritter >www.applefritter.com > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 10:32:10 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709110608.00a109b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:41 AM 7/9/01 -0600, Richard wrote: >What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were >require >to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. Dammed Right! I used to live in Roanoke, Virginia during the so called "energy shortage" in the mid-70s. Roanoke was the headquarters of the N&W Railroad and is located on their main line between W.Virginia and the seaports on the east coast of Virginia. EVERYDAY I used to see a multitude of trains loaded with nothing but coal from W.V. headed to the seaports to be loaded and hauled to Japan and other countries. This was at the same time that we couldn't heat our houses or drive our cars due to a "lack" of coal and oil! Wake up, folks! These "shortages" are nothing more than the manipulations of the oil industries and other large companies and are designed to do nothing except increase their profits. Go look up the statistics for the amount of oil imported during the so called arab oil embargo of the 70s. It was virtually the same as before the "embargo" but yet the comsumers were hood-winked into believing that there was a major shortage and tricked into paying more than double the price for all fuels. Even the ones that originated in the US. Go look at the amount of oil, gas or electric power consumed in this country. Has it declined at all in the last 30 years? No, of course not. The oil and power companies don't want it to decline, they have to keep up their profits. Stop and think about what's going on in this country. The major companies are screwing the American public on a daily basis and many of the politicians (particularly the Republicans) are playing right along. The companies invent these crisis and then use them as a pretext to not only rob us blind but also to circumvent numerious laws including conspiracy, anti-trust and enviromental laws. If you have doubts about the willingness of the politicians to play along with the enrgy companies, go look up the donor's names and amounts of the contributions to guys like GWB. All of that data is public record. While you're at it look up his investments in the oil and other energy related companies. With conficts of interest like his, we will never develope an alternative to oil and gasoline and we will never resolve the "energy crisis". Ok, I'll get off my soap box now. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 10:44:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Fwd: A Few Good Lessons was:Re: OT: Stupid discussions about Dick's silly ideas Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709114020.00a10690@mailhost.intellistar.net> On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Sellam wrote: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Sellam wrote: OK it's time to stop this pointless bickering. Here's something else to think about. I particularly like the one at the end of the lesson. Joe >Lesson Number One >A crow was sitting on a tree, doing nothing all day. A small rabbit saw >the crow, and asked him, "Can I also sit like you and do nothing all day >long?" The crow answered: "Sure, why not." So, the rabbit sat on the ground >below the crow, and rested. All of a sudden, a fox appeared, jumped on the >rabbit and ate it. >Management Lesson: To be sitting and doing nothing, you must be sitting >very, very high up. > >Lesson Number Two >A turkey was chatting with a bull. "I would love to be able to get to the >top of that tree," sighed the turkey, "but I haven't got the energy." "Well, >why don't you nibble on some of my droppings?" replied the bull. "They're >packed with Nutrients." The turkey pecked at a lump of dung and found that >it actually gave him enough strength to reach the first branch of the tree. >The next day, after eating some more dung, he reached the second branch. >Finally after a fourth night, there he was proudly perched at the top of the >Tree. Soon he was promptly spotted by a farmer, who shot the turkey out of >the tree. >Management Lesson: Bull crap might get you to the top, but it won't keep >you there. > >Lesson Number Three >When the body was first made, all the parts wanted to be Boss. The brain >said, "I should be Boss because I control the whole body's responses and >functions." The feet said, "We should be Boss as we carry the brain about >and get him to where he wants to go." The hands said, "We should be the Boss >because we do all the work and earn all the money." And so it went on and >on with the heart, the lungs and the eyes until finally the asshole spoke >up. All the parts laughed at the idea of the asshole being the Boss. So the >asshole went on strike, blocked itself up and refused to work. Within a >short time the eyes became crossed, the hands clenched, the feet twitched, >the heart and lungs began to panic and the brain fevered. Eventually they >all decided that the asshole should be the Boss, so the motion was passed. >All the other parts did all the work while the Boss just sat and passed out >the crap! >Management Lesson: You don't need brains to be a Boss - any asshole will >do. > >Lesson Number Four >A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold, the bird >froze and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying there, a >cow came by and dropped some dung on it. As the frozen bird lay there in >the pile of cow dung, it began to realize how warm it was. The dung was >actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm and happy, and soon began to >sing for joy. A passing cat heard the bird singing and came to >investigate. Following the sound, the cat discovered the bird under the >pile of cow dung, and promptly dug him out and ate him! >Management Lesson: >1) Not everyone who craps on you is your enemy. >2) Not everyone who gets you out of crap is your friend. >3) And when you're in deep doodoo, keep your mouth shut! > >END OF LESSON! > >Sometimes a majority means that all the fools are on one side. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 10:48:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709105244.00a15c60@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3B49CD04.BE67E193@internet1.net> Message-ID: <004201c1088e$8f79ffc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's the quandary! The price of grain produced for ethanol production has to be high enough to exceed the subsidies farmers get for NOT planting. If they plant, they have to pay for seed, fuel, fertilizer, labor, equipment maintenance, weeding, harvesting, transportation, crop insurance, etc. If they don't, they just get a check. The farmers are too close to the margin to take any risks. The price supports are in the form of support for fallowing portions of their land. That means they plant something else, or let the land rest. Many plant soybeans or alfalfa because those legumes benefit the soil. Others let the land sit and grow native grasses, which provides food and shelter for native wildlife, mostly rodents and birds. Here, in the U.S. BTW, we call the rape seed oil "canola oil" and it's been used as a fuel in Europe. I don't know how it compares with petroleum when you filter out the US GOV subsidies to the petrochemical industry and take out the taxes in the fuel prices, though. It's not easy to make that comparison/contrast. Maybe someone could share that information. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) > joe wrote: > > There simply isn't > > enough of it around. That's the same problem with alcohol, there isn't > > enough for it to be a viable fuel source. > > How can you say that in a day that farmers get paid to plant less crops > and the price of grain is low becasue of over supply? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 9 10:51:26 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> References: <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> Message-ID: <994693886.3b49d2fea93fa@email.ou.edu> Quoting Jim Davis : > This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and > office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. > > Piss off AOL boy. Well, I don't like this OT crap either. I've never been on a list before that even came close to classiccmp's 80% OT-ness. Ob classiccmp: Does anyone have a Zuse Z1 that I can have for the cost of shipping? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 9 10:54:00 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010709104151.00a46bc0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: Tom Uban wrote: > There may be a screw that has to be removed before the card can be extracted. Yup, a little (but long) Allan-headed thing at the top of the card. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From David.Neal at ubsw.com Mon Jul 9 10:51:07 2001 From: David.Neal at ubsw.com (David.Neal@ubsw.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be of f ensive, possible humor) Message-ID: very true, fossil oil will remain the dominant fuel for the forseeable ( until the end of my lifetime anyway ) future. However, if you've got a couple of acres ( not yet ) or live in the middle of a couple of chip fat users ( I do ) it is possible to a - actually do something for the environment whilst still having a life with the outside world. b - live a damn site more cheaply than previously ( we're also looking into oil fired heating/cooking ). c - stuff the UK government for the tax ( which is pretty bad over here in the UK ). You're also right about it not being viable to demand every car to run on old chip fat. Granted and very true. I'm just lucky enough to have stumbled accross the receipe, be dumb enough to give it a bash ( wife wondered for around a week what the smell was before I told her ) and have some local shops be prepared to let me have their 'waste'. It's also helping them reduce their costs ( they don't have to pay for the oil to be taken away ). Finally, and I don't want this to turn into a great big 'green' rave ( this *is* classic computing after all ), I can't see any issue with using bioD is any form. If it drives up the demand for oil based plants ( and I guess this goes the same for wood and ethanol ( right one ? ) ), then more places will grow it. If more places grow it there will be more of the carbon sinks the US are so fond of touting as their reason not to ratify the Kyoto thingie ( falme war ahead, beware ). As someone who is now quite happily self suff. in transport fuel and hopefully domestic fuel shortly, it doesn't bother me whether other people take up bioD. I wish they would as I think it would be a better idea than drilling more holes in the only place we've got. Mmmm, said too much already, I can hear the white coats being unrapped as we speak ;-) Anyway, about this VAX I've got ...... Have fun D -----Original Message----- From: rigdonj Sent: 09 July 2001 16:00 To: classiccmp Cc: rigdonj Subject: RE: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) At 02:57 PM 7/9/01 +0100, David wrote: >bit out of my field, but there's no reason we can't run cars' on >biodiesel. Renewable fuel source with fewer pollutants. I'm currently >running my Peugeot on recycled chip fat oil, which I get free from the >local chippie ( they have to pay for theirs to be removed as it's an >'industrial waste' and hence were more than happy for some bod to come >along a offer to take it away for free ). That's great. That's exact the kind of inventiveness that is needed to solve the energy crisis. However I think you'll agree that it would be rediculous to require that ALL cars run on chip oil. There simply isn't enough of it around. That's the same problem with alcohol, there isn't enough for it to be a viable fuel source. Yes, we could make more but at what price and with what kind of sacrifices? (more grain used to produce alcohol = less grain for food producton = higher food prices). Like it or not, gasoline will remain the major fuel source for the forseeable future. Joe Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 10:57:49 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B49C86D.4C0AD172@woa.com.au> References: <3B49C2A0.CA013811@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709115425.00abd1d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 01:06 AM 7/10/01 +1000, Terry wrote: >Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > I'm not sure what you mean..... are you saying you run your car on the > > oil that potatoe chips are cooked in?? Isn't it kind of thick? Is that > > what you are calling,"biodiesel"? > >Yep, you can. We even know about that in Oz. >Alternate Technology Assn has had recipes in their mag. > >Also, some country petrol (gas) has 10-20% (?) Ethanol in it here. They tried that here but ran into too many problems with it. Besides costing about 20% more than straight gas, it gave slightly worse mileage and it damaged a lot of stuff in the fuel system. It was particularly rough on fuel injectors and any "rubber" parts. I tried the stuff in my old car and found that it ran cooler. In fact, it ran too cool to operate properly. Joe From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 9 11:10:55 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: HP Exemplar Message-ID: Um, I guess that depends on if you like supercomputers or not... So personally, I'd say you missed out.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 9 11:27:40 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: <994693886.3b49d2fea93fa@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: > Quoting Jim Davis : > > This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and > > office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. > > > > Piss off AOL boy. > Spiffy. Mature too. > Well, I don't like this OT crap either. I've never been on a list > before that even came close to classiccmp's 80% OT-ness. > It's been one long, drawn out Midol Moment around here for nearly two weeks. Please take it elsewhere. I joined this list to be able to learn more about old computers and maybe increase my stash of goodies. Unfortunately, the list is being inundated with some of the most bizarre socio-politicol folderol that I've ever seen. Occasionaly OT runs are to be expected. We're a very varied bunch with a pretty impressive array of interests. Unfortunately, when the irrelevant totally overwhelms the relevent, problems arrive, tempers flare and interesting people leave the list. That's not fair to the rest of us left. > Ob classiccmp: Does anyone have a Zuse Z1 that I can have for the > cost of shipping? > Jeff, what's a Zuse Z1? g. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 9 11:29:26 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: <994693886.3b49d2fea93fa@email.ou.edu> References: <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> Message-ID: Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: >Well, I don't like this OT crap either. I've never been on a list >before that even came close to classiccmp's 80% OT-ness. I've got to agree. Over the years I've maintained the stance that the little off-topic discussion we've got on this list is OK. HOWEVER, in this case it's reached ridiculous levels! Take it offline folks! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 9 11:30:39 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <3B492C42.40E2CB9F@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jul 09, 2001 12:00:02 AM Message-ID: <200107091630.f69GUdX28545@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Did anybody see this? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 > > It went for $305.00! I was bidding on it, but my limit was $300. It was worth more, but then again there are other things I need, too. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Mon Jul 9 11:29:44 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Best ways to drive a Tektronix terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I reciently inherited a rather stout Tektronix terminal. It sits in it's own stand and appears very solidly built. This machine is the classic green storage tube phospher (Remember Battlestar Galactica?). I used one of these in college many years ago and was wondering if there were any libraries for cpm era machines I might be able to use to drive the graphic modes of this ancient terminal. George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jul 9 11:43:12 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709105244.00a15c60@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010709093953.02954430@209.185.79.193> > That's great. That's exact the kind of inventiveness that is needed > to solve the energy crisis. However I think you'll agree that it would > be rediculous to require that ALL cars run on chip oil. To Chad and others, yes this is the same oil used to fry french fries at McDonalds etc. And yes you can run your diesel engine on it. Diesels will burn most anything that can be flowed through them. A friend of mine did this (put a combination of vegetable oil and a thinner) into his car when he went in for his California emissions check. Since vegetable oil breaks down into slightly different components he really confused the guys but he passed! Building a methanol digester is probably the best. --Chuck From red at bears.org Mon Jul 9 11:44:39 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <004201c1088e$8f79ffc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > That's the quandary! The price of grain produced for ethanol > production has to [...] Okay, that's it. Dick, you are breaking your own cardinal rule here and annoying the (*#& out of me. I propose this affords me the right to dip you in molten lead or whatever the hell it was. Shut up, already. ok r. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 9 12:02:38 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: NEC APC (was: Denver Finds -- still avail In-Reply-To: <006901c10854$08c83c60$581610ac@mauger> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Mauger Family wrote: > I'm interested in finding someone who might have experience in > downloading data from an old NEC APC to a current Pentium machine. There are several different models of the APC series. Do you know which one you have? Does it have 8" drives? 5.25"? 3.5"? Single density (FM)? Double density (MFM)? "High" density (MFM at twice the rate)? NEC custom high density? Is it running CP/M? "stand-alone BASIC"? MS-DOS? MOST of the combinations cn be done. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon Jul 9 13:22:54 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Back on topic.. In-Reply-To: <994693886.3b49d2fea93fa@email.ou.edu> References: <12.f3451cd.287a23c0@aol.com> <3B48DD72.62BE7409@gorge.net> <994693886.3b49d2fea93fa@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <01070920234900.00371@jos> > Ob classiccmp: Does anyone have a Zuse Z1 that I can have for the > cost of shipping? > Why ? It was never functional ! Jos Dreesen > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 9 12:03:22 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Best ways to drive a Tektronix terminal? In-Reply-To: ; from george@racsys.rt.rain.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 09:29:44AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010709120322.E7351@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 09:29:44AM -0700, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > I reciently inherited a rather stout Tektronix terminal. It sits in it's > own stand and appears very solidly built. This machine is the classic > green storage tube phospher (Remember Battlestar Galactica?). On the same vein, anybody know where I can find a good "old terminal green phosphor" font for Windows? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 9 12:05:53 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net>; from lance@costanzo.net on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:13:05AM -0700 References: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <20010709120553.F7351@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:13:05AM -0700, Lance Costanzo wrote: > According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, > RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. Whatever happened to BSR, and then that other company I kept getting catalogs from with techy-type stuff? DAK maybe? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Jul 9 12:13:54 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Best ways to drive a Tektronix terminal? Message-ID: <39.174d58b7.287b4052@aol.com> What model George? Your description fits many of the Tek monsters, but I think the earliest is the 4010 IIRC. This would be a great terminal to save, there are few now. Most all Tek terminals used a serial port and 4010 graphics I think. My books are still packed away from the move. Paxton Astoria, Oregon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/129a0bd2/attachment.html From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 9 12:21:43 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010709104151.00a46bc0@ubanproductions.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20010709104151.00a46bc0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <994699303.3b49e82799aa5@email.ou.edu> This thread reminds me... I have just acquired a Sparcserver 490, and I don't know much about it. It's not what I'm normally interested in, but with all its gray and purple, it is a really pretty machine. Can someone point me to a place where I can learn more about it? I've got a sneaky suspicion that I can run Linux or NetBSD on it. What of it? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jbdigriz at i16.net Mon Jul 9 12:34:19 2001 From: jbdigriz at i16.net (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > >Well, I don't like this OT crap either. I've never been on a list > >before that even came close to classiccmp's 80% OT-ness. > > I've got to agree. Over the years I've maintained the stance that the > little off-topic discussion we've got on this list is OK. HOWEVER, in this > case it's reached ridiculous levels! Take it offline folks! > > Zane Normally I'd agree, but I don't see that the issues in the most contentious segment of the thread are all that off-topic, given things like the Australian Parliament's moves to criminalize "hacking", what happened with the Sydex tools, and that whole paranoid, projective, cop mentality, setting up for the day when some over-zealous opportunist of a prosecutor tries a list member for "virus" (ie. non-Windows) code on his PDP-8 or something. Go ahead and laugh; yes, it's aburd, but we've seen way too much absurd shit in this vein in the last few years. To wit, hot off the wire, apparently, the State of GA is bringing much shame and embarrassment on itself by prosecuting a former admin at Dekalb Tech for running distributed.net RC5 clients on school computers. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?start=1&catid=39&threadid=490400 The exact circumstances are unclear to me at the moment, but the state remains to show he actually acted improperly or caused any harm. At the worst, it appears this *might* have warranted a reprimand at most, here in the "it may not be easier to get forgiveness than permission, but it's necessary, just don't get caught" state, where poor families daily face choices such as "do I drive without a license and/or insurance to get to work today, or do I obey the law like a good citizen, only to face prosecution for child neglect and have DFACS take my kids", not a 15 yr., $415,000 fine felony conviction. Or should we shoot him, Dick? By the way, I see your points, and I think you and Sellam are actually arguing from the same position, I just don't think you realize there may not always be an honorable way to address things the way you say should be done without having to break a few laws here and there. The deck is stacked, and the other side is not fighting fair. Voice of bitter experience. My 2 cents, jbdigriz From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 9 12:37:53 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994700273.3b49ebf1749a2@email.ou.edu> Quoting Gene Buckle : > Jeff, what's a Zuse Z1? Whwhwhwa!? The Z1 was an early computer built by Konrad Zuse. >From http://irb.cs.tu-berlin.de/~zuse/Konrad_Zuse/en/ : : The Z1 is today considered to be the first freely programmable : computer of the world. It was completed in 1938 and financed : completely from private funds. Konrad Zuse's first computer, built : between 1936 and 1938, was destroyed in the bombardment of Berlin : in WW II, together with all construction plans. In 1986, Konrad : Zuse decided to reconstruct the Z1. : : The Z1 contained all parts of a modern computer, e. g. control : unit, memory, micro sequences, floating point logic -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Mon Jul 9 12:44:32 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Best ways to drive a Tektronix terminal? In-Reply-To: <39.174d58b7.287b4052@aol.com> Message-ID: To be honest I hadn't got a chance to look at the back of the machine yet as it was dark when I brought it home. Only visible problem is someone has clipped the ground wire in the electrical cord (simple). I'll check tonight. I just know the next stop for this machine was a landfill if I hadn't intercepted it. Those displays were so unique that I knew I had to have at least one although I was kinda looking for the tabletop model instead of the floor standing model I ended up with. George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > What model George? Your description fits many of the Tek monsters, but I > think the earliest is the 4010 IIRC. This would be a great terminal to save, > there are few now. > > Most all Tek terminals used a serial port and 4010 graphics I think. > > My books are still packed away from the move. > > Paxton > Astoria, Oregon > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 9 12:39:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 8, 1 06:39:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2256 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/3265e023/attachment.ksh From owad at applefritter.com Mon Jul 9 12:58:06 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010709175806.28512@mail.earthlink.net> >> There may be a screw that has to be removed before the card can be >extracted. > >Yup, a little (but long) Allan-headed thing at the top of the card. The screw's out. In fact, one of the cards is even a quarter-inch of the way out and still won't budge. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 9 13:04:49 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: <994699303.3b49e82799aa5@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: What kind of machine is it? Deskside? Large VME? Pizza Box? Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > This thread reminds me... > > I have just acquired a Sparcserver 490, and I don't know much about > it. It's not what I'm normally interested in, but with all its > gray and purple, it is a really pretty machine. Can someone point > me to a place where I can learn more about it? > > I've got a sneaky suspicion that I can run Linux or NetBSD on it. > What of it? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 9 13:21:10 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: <994700273.3b49ebf1749a2@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: > Quoting Gene Buckle : > > Jeff, what's a Zuse Z1? > > Whwhwhwa!? The Z1 was an early computer built by Konrad Zuse. > Don't get your undies in a twist. :) > >From http://irb.cs.tu-berlin.de/~zuse/Konrad_Zuse/en/ : > : The Z1 is today considered to be the first freely programmable Ok, now that's pretty damn cool. :) g. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 9 13:13:20 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: <994699303.3b49e82799aa5@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <200107091813.UAA07172@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 9 Jul, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > I have just acquired a Sparcserver 490, Uhhh, that is a really nice machine. Only the SMP 670 / 690 is superior to this beast. > Can someone point me to a place where I can learn more about it? NetBSD port-sparc mailing list? http://www.sunhelp.org > I've got a sneaky suspicion that I can run Linux or NetBSD on it. > What of it? Na, Linux. That PC wanabe Unix bastard on such a sophisticated piece of hardware - that is a sacrilege. ;-) [Please no flame war, note the ^^^ ] Some recent version (maybe 1.5, at least -current) of NetBSD will run on that beast, but the best choice would be SunOs 4.1.3 That is the OS this machine was build for. Is is a decent 4.2BSD UNIX derivate with 4.3BSD and SysV enhancements. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From allain at panix.com Mon Jul 9 13:14:23 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Best ways to drive a Tektronix terminal? References: Message-ID: <008301c108a3$24b1ad40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> If all else fails, there is a pretty simple way to talk to Tek's using excape sequences, which I can send if you don't get what you want otherwise. First you should verify that it functions as a serial terminal. John A. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 9 13:31:32 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010709183132.88612.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > > What kind of machine is it? Deskside? Large VME? Pizza Box? Probably a large pedestal or short rack. Does have VME, but is sun4 architecture (not sun4c or sun4d or sun4m, etc.) Solaris doesn't like them anymore (2.5.1 the latest? I think there's a check for VME-equipped Suns in 2.6 that halts when found, but there is a patch around that). I agree with another poster - SunOS 4.1.3u1 (Solaris 1.1.1) would make it shine. Sweet box for older hardware. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 9 13:32:43 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994703563.3b49f8cb446ee@email.ou.edu> Quoting Sridhar Ayengar : > What kind of machine is it? Deskside? Large VME? Pizza Box? Big. Approx 5' tall, 30' wide, and 3' deep. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 9 13:36:33 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: <200107091813.UAA07172@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200107091813.UAA07172@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <994703793.3b49f9b184fe0@email.ou.edu> Quoting jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de: > Some recent version (maybe 1.5, at least -current) of NetBSD will > run on that beast, but the best choice would be SunOs 4.1.3 That > is the OS this machine was build for. I think that's what I'll do when I get around to messing with the machine. Thanks! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 9 13:37:22 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: Message-ID: <3B49F9E2.9E0E98DA@internet1.net> David, What is a carbon sink? What is the Kyoto thingie? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David.Neal@ubsw.com wrote: > If more places grow it there will be > more of the carbon sinks the US are so fond of touting as their reason > not to ratify the Kyoto thingie From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Jul 9 13:37:46 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 In-Reply-To: <20010709175806.28512@mail.earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010709133746.0087cb60@ubanproductions.com> There may be a screw at each end of the card. --tom At 01:58 PM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >>> There may be a screw that has to be removed before the card can be >>extracted. >> >>Yup, a little (but long) Allan-headed thing at the top of the card. > >The screw's out. In fact, one of the cards is even a quarter-inch of the >way out and still won't budge. > >Tom > >Applefritter >www.applefritter.com > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 9 12:49:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709092644.00a1c7d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jul 9, 1 09:30:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1550 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/74409b6c/attachment.ksh From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 9 14:00:19 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Quoting Jim Davis : > > > This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and > > > office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. > > > > > > Piss off AOL boy. > > > Spiffy. Mature too. [Usenet flame mode on :-)] So, does that mean that you're in agreement with those runners up for the vice-presidency of the moron section of the knucklehead club who tear classic computers apart so as to be able to use their bits for wall hangings and office trophies, or to be immersed in clear epoxy for sale on E-bilk as expensive paperweights and, hence, forever useless as functional computer bits? > > Well, I don't like this OT crap either. I've never been on a list > > before that even came close to classiccmp's 80% OT-ness. > It's been one long, drawn out Midol Moment around here for nearly two > weeks. Please take it elsewhere. I joined this list to be able to learn > more about old computers and maybe increase my stash of > goodies. Unfortunately, the list is being inundated with some of the most > bizarre socio-politicol folderol that I've ever seen. Occasionaly OT runs Uh-oh, that comment warrants severe Usenet-style flamage... :-) [Basil Fawlty Usenet flamethrower mode on] Bizarre? You call what we've been discussing Bizarre? Let me guess, you're a propagana artist from one of Big Brother's goon squads or else you're some random politican's aid pretending to be a computer collector, and you're working on "damage control," right? Ah, hah! Just as we thought. Admit it, as vee haf vays uf making you talk. [flames mode off] > are to be expected. We're a very varied bunch with a pretty impressive > array of interests. Unfortunately, when the irrelevant totally overwhelms > the relevent, problems arrive, tempers flare and interesting people leave > the list. That's not fair to the rest of us left. As someone else pointed out, this is definitely relevant to hacking. Over in Europe, the looney one world government political plotters are working hard to prevent hacking as they attempt to curtail what's left of anyone's freedom and liberty. Their inane rules and regulations are already having harmful effects on the hardware hacking attempts of non-Europeans like the English, and may even be influencing the politicrats in the U.S. The discussions that we've been having pertaining to the 4th of July, etc. are indeed pertinent to not only the rights of U.S. citizens to continue hacking, which is a vital aspect of computer collecting, restoration and preservation. but helpful to hackers everywhere who want to resist Big Brother and "little brother inc." -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 9 13:50:19 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010709093953.02954430@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B49FCEB.52B736CB@internet1.net> Cool... I guess I didn't realize that diesel engine were so flexible, although, I knew the military requires flex fuel capabilities. I guess I didn't put 2 and 2 together. One of these days, I will by a 91 to 93 Dodge 4x4 with the Cummins diesel. When I was truck shopping a few years ago, they were always sold before I call :-( Will newer diesels, such as the Cummins run on alternative fuels? I have heard that the newer diesels are quite a bit more fuel fussy. Maybe because of more precise/effcient EFI systems to reduce emissions? What if I were to replace the EFI computer with a PDP11 :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > To Chad and others, yes this is the same oil used to fry french fries at > McDonalds etc. And yes you can run your diesel engine on it. Diesels will > burn most anything that can be flowed through them. A friend of mine did > this (put a combination of vegetable oil and a thinner) into his car when > he went in for his California emissions check. Since vegetable oil breaks > down into slightly different components he really confused the guys but he > passed! Building a methanol digester is probably the best. > > --Chuck From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 9 14:11:47 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: <994703563.3b49f8cb446ee@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: I hope you meant 30" wide rather than 30' wide. Anyone know how big a 4/470 is? I am going to be getting a 4/670-714 soon. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Quoting Sridhar Ayengar : > > What kind of machine is it? Deskside? Large VME? Pizza Box? > > Big. Approx 5' tall, 30' wide, and 3' deep. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 9 13:52:34 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: SCSI Ethernet adapters (was: How much is a partial Lisa worth?) In-Reply-To: <3B49B894.4030000@mac.com> References: <200107081858.NAA95959@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >>here. Asante EN SC, but I wouldn't use one for a SE/30 unless there was a >>good reason why I couldn't use an internal card. >> >Mike, you've seen more than I have, but based on my experience, I'd say >the the most common ones are the Dayna and the Asante ones. The rarest >would seem to be the Cabletron (the only one only one with a publised >API) and the Kinetics. > >Personally, I'd love to find a Kinetics one just to test a theory that >it is command compatible with the Cabletron. > >As for why not use an internal SE/30 card? Probably the best reason is >if you've already got the Xceed video card. :-) Twice now I've found someone selling one of those cheap, and both times I advised them of the actual value instead of grabbing it, both times the bid went over my max. Bad habit, but the SCSI ethernet boxes are so thinly traded that I let myself slip into picking up only the known unit, Asante, and leaving others behind. If I see a Kinetics I'll get it. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 9 14:32:28 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Quoting Jim Davis : > > > > This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and > > > > office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. > > > > > > > > Piss off AOL boy. > > > > > Spiffy. Mature too. > > [Usenet flame mode on :-)] > > So, does that mean that you're in agreement with those runners up for > the vice-presidency of the moron section of the knucklehead club who > tear classic computers apart so as to be able to use their bits for > wall hangings and office trophies, or to be immersed in clear epoxy > for sale on E-bilk as expensive paperweights and, hence, forever > useless as functional computer bits? > Boy, as far as flames go that was pretty uninspiring. I mean, wasn't I supposed to get all frothy at the mouth and such? :) As far as destroying functional computer equipment to sell as knic-knacks. Ewww. That's just disgusting. Makes me want to run to the nearest eye-wash station after reading a post even _discussing_ such aberrant behavior! > > > Well, I don't like this OT crap either. I've never been on a list > > > before that even came close to classiccmp's 80% OT-ness. > > > It's been one long, drawn out Midol Moment around here for nearly two > > weeks. Please take it elsewhere. I joined this list to be able to learn > > more about old computers and maybe increase my stash of > > goodies. Unfortunately, the list is being inundated with some of the most > > bizarre socio-politicol folderol that I've ever seen. Occasionaly OT runs > > Uh-oh, that comment warrants severe Usenet-style flamage... :-) > > [Basil Fawlty Usenet flamethrower mode on] > > Bizarre? You call what we've been discussing Bizarre? Let me guess, > you're a propagana artist from one of Big Brother's goon squads or > else you're some random politican's aid pretending to be a computer > collector, and you're working on "damage control," right? Ah, hah! > Just as we thought. Admit it, as vee haf vays uf making you talk. > > [flames mode off] > That was a _little_ better, but it still made me smile. No froth to be seen. *laughs* > > are to be expected. We're a very varied bunch with a pretty impressive > > array of interests. Unfortunately, when the irrelevant totally overwhelms > > the relevent, problems arrive, tempers flare and interesting people leave > > the list. That's not fair to the rest of us left. > > As someone else pointed out, this is definitely relevant to hacking. > Over in Europe, the looney one world government political plotters are SNIP! I agree completely that the current situation in the US and other countries warrant discussion, but unless you're referring to anti-hacking/cracking statues passed in 1991 and prior, it's NOT topical for this list. g. From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 9 14:25:04 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: <3B49FCEB.52B736CB@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > What if I were to replace the EFI computer with a PDP11 :-) Only would work if you replaced it with an 11/70 with all-original parts 8-) Peace... Sridhar From pechter at ureach.com Mon Jul 9 14:27:56 2001 From: pechter at ureach.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: VMS Timeline and more Message-ID: <200107091927.PAA19435@stage21.ureach.com> ---- On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy (healyzh@aracnet.com) wrote: > I was just poking around on the net, killing some time while watching > something I've got running at work, so I decided to see what I could dig > up > on VMS. Anyway I just found a *very* interesting page. > > http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/vms_hist.html > > It has release dates and major feature changes from V1 - V7.2. BTW, > for > those that don't know V7.3 was released a couple months ago. Anyway > it's > an interesting page. > > It looks like http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/ might be worth looking > through also. Such as http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/vms_hw.html > which > lists minimum OS versions for the various systems. > > Anyway I don't know who dug all this info up and created these pages, > but > they look to have a bunch of info I've been looking for, for a long > time. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | Are you sure they're correct... I thought VAX/VMS had edt in v2.0 or 2.2 at the latest. Is he thinking of the port of EDT to native mode? I thought EVE TPU stuff came out in 3.x... Bill -- Bill Pechter Systems Administrator From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 9 14:37:49 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: SGI Indy2 In-Reply-To: geoffr "SGI Indy2" (Jul 8, 18:59) References: Message-ID: <10107092037.ZM1973@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 8, 18:59, geoffr wrote: > Wht is one worth? (roughly) A lot, because it would be unique. I think you mean an Indigo2 :-) There are Indigos, Indigo2s, and Indys, but no Indy2. The value will depend on the graphics option(s), the processor, and to a lesser extent on the memory and the disks. I bought a low-spec one a few months ago for ?50, without keyboard, disk, or drive sled. One with the fanciest graphics and a fast processor could outperform most PCs for some types of 3D work, and would be worth 5-10 times as much as mine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 9 14:42:15 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010709194215.30975.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > > I hope you meant 30" wide rather than 30' wide. Anyone know how big a > 4/470 is? I am going to be getting a 4/670-714 soon. LOL! I buzzed right passed the width until you said something. Paint's quite a picture. That'd look like a wall of filing cabinets! > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > Quoting Sridhar Ayengar : > > > What kind of machine is it? Deskside? Large VME? Pizza Box? > > > > Big. Approx 5' tall, 30' wide, and 3' deep. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 9 14:50:31 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap (was: Preserving the right... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994708231.3b4a0b0717b0e@email.ou.edu> Quoting "R. D. Davis" : > The discussions that we've been having pertaining to the 4th of > July, etc. are indeed pertinent to not only the rights of U.S. > citizens to continue hacking, which is a vital aspect of computer > collecting, restoration and preservation. but helpful to hackers > everywhere who want to resist Big Brother and "little brother > inc." Great. I'm all for preserving the right to hack. But please discuss it elsewhere. There have to be more appropriate venues of discussion for such topics than classiccmp. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From donm at cts.com Mon Jul 9 14:51:23 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail In-Reply-To: <006901c10854$08c83c60$581610ac@mauger> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Mauger Family wrote: > Hi, > I'm interested in finding someone who might have experience in downloading > data from an old NEC APC to a current Pentium machine. Well, I have copied data from APC 8" disks to a 386 machine if that is close enough. - don > Alan Mauger > mauger@senet.com.au > From jss at ou.edu Mon Jul 9 14:52:41 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994708361.3b4a0b895ca4f@email.ou.edu> Quoting Sridhar Ayengar : > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > Big. Approx 5' tall, 30' wide, and 3' deep. > > I hope you meant 30" wide rather than 30' wide. Umm, yes. Looks like my clock is a few MHz slow today. :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 9 14:55:00 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:31 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 8, 1 06:39:14 pm Message-ID: >Hang on... Do you know if this analogue board is good or not? Is it >possible there's a 'stock fault' that's occured on both boards? Do you This "donor" system was a victim of moron assualt, ie the first moron in the scrap yard that got his hands on it raped it of ram, hard drive, etc. and left the remains. It came into the yard as a working unit. My only worry is that rough handling may have scratched the tube, but then that just puts me in the position of scrapping out one of the remaining working units. From kristiehahn at hotmail.com Mon Jul 9 14:49:29 2001 From: kristiehahn at hotmail.com (Kristie Hahn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: DC-30 tape ?? Message-ID: DO YOU STILL HAVE THEM??? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/36ad3b34/attachment.html From mldrew at drewtech.com Mon Jul 9 15:12:04 2001 From: mldrew at drewtech.com (Michael L. Drew) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: SCSI Ethernet adapters (was: How much is a partial Lisaworth?) References: <200107081858.NAA95959@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B4A1014.DDF644CC@drewtech.com> Hi! I am not sure that this is the same thing.... I have 3 NuvoLink SC boxes. They have AUI,BNC and SCSI on the back... Mike Mike Ford wrote: > >>here. Asante EN SC, but I wouldn't use one for a SE/30 unless there was a > >>good reason why I couldn't use an internal card. > >> > >Mike, you've seen more than I have, but based on my experience, I'd say > >the the most common ones are the Dayna and the Asante ones. The rarest > >would seem to be the Cabletron (the only one only one with a publised > >API) and the Kinetics. > > > >Personally, I'd love to find a Kinetics one just to test a theory that > >it is command compatible with the Cabletron. > > > >As for why not use an internal SE/30 card? Probably the best reason is > >if you've already got the Xceed video card. :-) > > Twice now I've found someone selling one of those cheap, and both times I > advised them of the actual value instead of grabbing it, both times the bid > went over my max. > > Bad habit, but the SCSI ethernet boxes are so thinly traded that I let > myself slip into picking up only the known unit, Asante, and leaving others > behind. If I see a Kinetics I'll get it. -- =============================================================================== Michael L. Drew Drew Technologies, Inc. 41 Enterprise Drive Ann Arbor, MI 48103 Phone: (734) 623-8080 Fax: (734) 623-8082 =============================================================================== From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jul 9 15:03:46 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Sridhar Ayengar's message of "Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:11:47 -0400 (EDT)" References: Message-ID: <200107092003.f69K3kQ36970@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > I hope you meant 30" wide rather than 30' wide. Anyone know how big a > 4/470 is? I am going to be getting a 4/670-714 soon. 4/470 is a wide deskside pedestal housing VME chassis, power supply, and a couple 5.25" full-height bays. At least the one I used to use was; I can imagine the guts being repackaged to fit in a 19" rack though. The one I used had another similarly-styled deskside pedestal housing a couple of IPI disk drives. -Frank McConnell From brian at quarterbyte.com Mon Jul 9 15:24:25 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars Message-ID: <002701c108b5$25ba1760$6401a8c0@quarterbyte.com> Up to a point I find the off-topic stuff kind of funny... it's like a small town where all the old retired guys sit on the front porch of the old hardware store and BS all day. But when the stort of stuff we're seeing lately shows up, it's no longer charming. The types who engage in the invective we're seeing thrive on attention. Argument and returned insults are exactly what they're seeking. The response should be cold silence. Don't respond to it, don't argue with them, don't acknowledge their presence on the porch until they act like adults. That's my two bits worth. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/f70c6e7a/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 15:43:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010709093953.02954430@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <001f01c108b7$d24725c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There'd probably be a substantial weight gain throughout the potato-eating public. The exhaust of the typical diesel VW burning recycled french-fry oil smells of french-fries. Who can resist that? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 10:43 AM Subject: RE: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) > > > That's great. That's exact the kind of inventiveness that is needed > > to solve the energy crisis. However I think you'll agree that it would > > be rediculous to require that ALL cars run on chip oil. > > To Chad and others, yes this is the same oil used to fry french fries at > McDonalds etc. And yes you can run your diesel engine on it. Diesels will > burn most anything that can be flowed through them. A friend of mine did > this (put a combination of vegetable oil and a thinner) into his car when > he went in for his California emissions check. Since vegetable oil breaks > down into slightly different components he really confused the guys but he > passed! Building a methanol digester is probably the best. > > --Chuck > > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 15:41:20 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Re: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) References: <994699303.3b49e82799aa5@email.ou.edu> <200107091813.UAA07172@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <15178.5872.554931.973178@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > Some recent version (maybe 1.5, at least -current) of NetBSD will run on > that beast, but the best choice would be SunOs 4.1.3 That is the OS > this machine was build for. Is is a decent 4.2BSD UNIX derivate with > 4.3BSD and SysV enhancements. For SunOS, I'd suggest 4.1.4. Very recent NetBSD will run nicely on that machine as well. -Dave McGuire From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 9 15:45:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) References: Message-ID: <002501c108b8$08323f80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well ... I'd prefer molten iron ... but it's up to you, I guess. This is a different off-topic topic, though. Aren't you relieved there's a break? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 10:44 AM Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > That's the quandary! The price of grain produced for ethanol > > production has to > > [...] > > > Okay, that's it. Dick, you are breaking your own cardinal rule here and > annoying the (*#& out of me. I propose this affords me the right to dip > you in molten lead or whatever the hell it was. > > Shut up, already. > > ok > r. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 9 15:34:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jul 9, 1 12:32:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1968 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/2f930b07/attachment.ksh From stefan at softhome.net Mon Jul 9 15:59:05 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Wanted : SCSI 9-track tape unit Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010709225749.02eb05e0@pop.softhome.net> Hi fellow collectors, Does anybody have a SCSI 9-track tape unit they would be willing to part with ? I prefer as close to The Netherlands as possible but any offers are welcome. Thanks. Stefan Mansier. From jbdigriz at i16.net Mon Jul 9 15:56:49 2001 From: jbdigriz at i16.net (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars In-Reply-To: <002701c108b5$25ba1760$6401a8c0@quarterbyte.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Brian Knittel wrote: > > Up to a point I find the off-topic stuff kind of funny... it's like > a small town where all the old retired guys sit on the front > porch of the old hardware store and BS all day. > > But when the stort of stuff we're seeing lately shows up, > it's no longer charming. The types who engage in the invective > we're seeing thrive on attention. Argument and returned insults > are exactly what they're seeking. The response should be cold silence. > Don't respond to it, don't argue with them, don't acknowledge > their presence on the porch until they act like adults. > That's my two bits worth. > > Brian > Physician, heal thyself? It's not invective, but this particular argument-from-psychology is invariably belittling to its objects. Same difference in my book. If it fits, fine, but it's flatly wrong in this case, with respect to these participants. "Sometimes a banana is just a banana." Having an opinion and expressing it, in a culture where silence is taken as assent to countering views, is not the same thing as seeking attention. It can be a matter of self-preservation, in fact. Or not, but that's a judgement call. My 0x0010 cents, jbdigriz From mldrew at drewtech.com Mon Jul 9 16:00:35 2001 From: mldrew at drewtech.com (Michael L. Drew) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: How to bring a Dec Pro 350 back to life References: <994708361.3b4a0b895ca4f@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3B4A1B73.CD0E26C8@drewtech.com> Hi All! I recently bought a Pro 350 from ebay. The machine looks to be in great condition. All card slots are full. I have a rough idea that the first card labeled 000401 is a MFM hard disk controller. The second card labeled 002004 is a floppy controller (no brainer, it is connected to the dual floppy drive). The third card is a 001002 and I have no clue what it does. The fourth and fifth cards 000034 appear to be memory cards. The sixth card 000046 has a quite impressive cable to a large connector on the back... I have no clue about this one either. I attached a VR201 and the machine boots with a graphic picture of the machine with the first card highlighted. I assume that it is unhappy because it does not have a hard drive. I have several MFM drives and would like advice on how best to bring this baby back to life! The drives I have at my disposal are: ST-225 ST-4026B Micropolis 1335 Micropolis 1325 Others possible.... What would be best??? >From a mechanical perspective, this machine is a wonder! It is about as far from a clone PC case as it is possible to get... It is built like a tank! A tank that you can tear down and put back together without a single tool! Any and all information and suggestions about how to get this baby up and running would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike =============================================================================== Michael L. Drew Drew Technologies, Inc. 41 Enterprise Drive Ann Arbor, MI 48103 Phone: (734) 623-8080 Fax: (734) 623-8082 =============================================================================== From MTPro at aol.com Mon Jul 9 16:02:32 2001 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Ripping Apart Old Computers Message-ID: << From: Jim Davis Subject: Re: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! Bwahahaha, This from someone who rips apart computers for wall hangings and office trophies, then spams his "products" on multiple newsgroups. Piss off AOL boy. >> Everyone, just to clarify, I have never torn apart any computer. I have about a dozen and a half original Mac logic boards which I have sourced over the years from smalltime and major Apple dealers. All were sold to me as specifically inoperable or in an unknown operational condition. So far, I have only framed a few of them and sold them as historical computer art. The original Mac logic board is a nice example of an integrated board which contains all of the main components of the personal computer - cpu, RAM, ROM, disk controllers, other I/O, etc. I will be selling a few of these at the VCF East and they may or may not go over. I see no problem with this, some of you may. But, either way, I have more respect for older computers than to destroy them. I use AOL. But, let's say I also choose to be a Catholic. Let's say I choose to drive a Ford. Let's say I like the Washington Redskins. For anyone who thought that Jim's comments were appropriate, I'll help you out: Piss off Catholic boy! Piss off Ford boy! Piss off Redskin's boy! This kind of prejudice is not funny. And, prejudice is prejudice, even if directed at personal choices versus attributes born with. Thank you, David From owad at applefritter.com Mon Jul 9 16:05:11 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010709104151.00a46bc0@ubanproductions.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20010709104151.00a46bc0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20010709210511.94@mail.earthlink.net> >>What's the proper way of removing cards from a Sparcserver 470? I >>thought you just pushed out on those plastic tabs and the card would >>disconnect and could then be pulled out. >> >>They're not budging and I even broke one of those plastic tabs trying to >>get them out. Am I doing something wrong? Any other way to get the >>things out of there? > >There may be a screw that has to be removed before the card can be extracted. Not in this card. I'm wondering if the contacts have rusted, or something similar. Is there any other good way to get these out? Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Jul 9 16:02:08 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars References: <002701c108b5$25ba1760$6401a8c0@quarterbyte.com> Message-ID: <3B4A1BCF.C1EC443E@kcinter.net> I agree Bill Brian Knittel wrote: > Up to a point I find the off-topic stuff kind of funny... it's likea > small town where all the old retired guys sit on the frontporch of the > old hardware store and BS all day. But when the stort of stuff we're > seeing lately shows up,it's no longer charming. The types who engage > in the invectivewe're seeing thrive on attention. Argument and > returned insultsare exactly what they're seeking. The response should > be cold silence.Don't respond to it, don't argue with them, don't > acknowledgetheir presence on the porch until they act like > adults.That's my two bits worth. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/0354784c/attachment.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 9 16:07:10 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: rough handling.... In-Reply-To: <15178.5872.554931.973178@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <994699303.3b49e82799aa5@email.ou.edu> <200107091813.UAA07172@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <15178.5872.554931.973178@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: The FLEX user's group has been putting together a CD full of documentation, disk images, and what-not. They've even gone so far as to seek release for the stuff they're putting on the CD. Anyway, recently a bunch of 'beta' CD's, meant to go out to volenteers to sort through and catalog prior to burning the final CD, were mailed out, with the request that the postmaster hand stamp them so as to minimize damage. So far ever single one of the CD's arrived to it's destination totally mangled! Some had the layers seperating, some actually bent, others showed signs of reflective layer actually flaking off and one had the cancellation stamp from the USPS right on it! Moral: Even with something like CD's, packaging makes all the difference Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 9 16:08:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: How to bring a Dec Pro 350 back to life In-Reply-To: <3B4A1B73.CD0E26C8@drewtech.com> from "Michael L. Drew" at Jul 9, 1 05:00:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1545 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/fbe7db3d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 9 16:11:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: rough handling.... In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jul 9, 1 05:07:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 557 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/e69d8f05/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 9 16:14:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Snappy MacTV In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 9, 1 12:55:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 514 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/a006aaba/attachment.ksh From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 9 16:39:46 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > For example, under the letter of the law in the UK it is illegal for me > to replace the filter in an RK05 drive that's working correctly. Because > that would be a 'refurbishment' and as such I would have to bring the > entire system up to the current EMC standards. If, on the other hand, I > waited for the heads to crash and then replaced the heads and filter, > that would be a repair, and would be legal. > Ok, this is VERY much news to my eyes. Personally I'd tell 'em to bugger off, I'll maintain my own gear as I see fit. :) > It is also illegal to sell electronic kits in the UK unless you can state > that a correctly-assembled example of the kit meets all current > regulations (EMC, low voltage directive, and so on). Heck, the > appropriate bit of the government actually told me that I had to be sure Ok, that's just silly. Do they publicly flog engineers too? :) > Needless to say this law is currently being applied (IMHO) correctly, to > prevent the sale of stuff which causes widespread radio interference. > This doesn't alter the fact that it could be applied a lot more widely... > Agreed! g. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 9 16:30:46 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: PLATO IV Terminal Update Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512E9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> A small update regarding the search for these rare beasts... It was uncertain who had made them, many thinking (assuming) it was CDC; however, given the last of the three references below, it appears it may have been made by Magnavox. Still want one... -dq 70mr02 Stifle, J. "A Plasma Display Terminal." CERL Report X-15, M arch 1970; revised: June 1973. Also appears as "The PLATO IV Student Terminal." Nov. 1974 74au01 Stifle, J. "The PLATO IV Terminal: Description of Operation." Revised: Aug. 1974 97xx01 PLATO IV: Site Controller Communications Interface for the PLATO IV Computer-based Education System. Magnavox, undated. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 12:34:16 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be off ensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <3B49CD04.BE67E193@internet1.net> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709105244.00a15c60@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709132915.00abdec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:25 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >joe wrote: > > There simply isn't > > enough of it around. That's the same problem with alcohol, there isn't > > enough for it to be a viable fuel source. > >How can you say that in a day that farmers get paid to plant less crops >and the price of grain is low becasue of over supply? What the farmers get paid and what the produce sells for in the store are two entirely different things! Believe me, all of my grandparents along with numerous relatives were farmers and I've lived and worked on a farm. It's a crime the way the farmers are being treated in this country. The "law" of supply and demand simply doesn't work in this case, there are too many middle men, regulators, restrictions and other factors at play. Joe >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 12:28:53 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: <3B49CC32.13AA5CAA@internet1.net> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709115900.00ac5d10@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:22 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >Joe, > >joe wrote: > > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > >Wow, I don't' usually get that kind of response :-) Sorry but I get feed up with people that just quote the latest party line and don't pay attention to what's going on. For months last year the oil companies said publicly that the latest shortage and higher prices were due to a lack of refinery capacity. Then after GWB took office, he announced that it was due to a lack of oil wells and decided to try and open up ANWAR and the Gulf of Mexico for drilling. Doesn't that seem strange to you? Do you remember earlier this year when the oil companies and the Republican administration said that this shortage would last for several more years and that prices would continue to rise for at least another year? Do you remember when the Democrats called for an congressional investigation into the supposed shortage but couldn't get one since they were a minority in both houses? Doesn't it seem strange that after the Democrats gained control of the Senate recently that the "shortage" immediately ended and prices have steadily fallen since? > > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > > this country in the last ten years. > >Why? Good question. Dammed if I know. > Even if they import the oil, they still have to refine it? Of course. > > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil > shortage. > >Didn't I essentially say the same thing? Maybe you meant that but you suddenly changed subjects when you said "They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The electricity problems...." and it sounded like you thought the electricity shortage had something to do with the oil shortage. > I don't think the oil "crisis" >has anything to do with the electricity "crisis". Our (US) electrical >grid/system hasn't been upgraded to keep pace with demand and maybe not >even kept current (no pun intended :-) As I understand it, the electrical power problem is mainly confined to California and is a result of them not building any generating plants in the last few years. Of course, the problem will affect all of us directly or indirectly since companies in other states will soon be selling their power to California (because they'll pay more) and will start shorting the people in their own states. (PLEASE! Let's not get into another long argument about who or what caused the problems in California. I did hear that more power stations are being built more than ever before, However. I guess someone thought it was a good idea to build a few :-) I think you're right but I don't like the trend that I see developing. A lot of companies are now building "merchant" plants in states other than where they operate. These plants will generate power and sell it to the highest bidder with no regard to the people in the state that they're located in or where the company is (supposed to be) located. I know a lot of you don't see a problem with that but the power companies are monopolies and are supposed to operate at a reasonable profit for the benefit of the people that they serve. Now they're going to be just another big money-grubbing company but still retain the powers and benefits of a monopoly and benefit no one but themselves. FWIW Duke Power is building one of those plants about 20 miles from where I live. The plans are for all of the power that they generate to go to the Carolinas. We only "benefit" that we will see is them sucking 2,000,000 gallons of water per day out of the underground water aquifer for their own use (we're already under mandatory water use restrictions and have been for several years). Also we will get the "benefit" of their toxins and other emissions from their coal fired boilers. Oh, and somehow they're gong to have to move a thousand tons of coal into the area every few days. I'm sure their are other "benefits" that we haven't found out about yet. > > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > > than it is to produce our own. > >What I have always heard, was that our oil, "Texas oil" wasn't the same >quality as oil from the middle east, and that Alaskan oil was much >closer in quality to oil from the middle east. I know our oil isn't all >in Texas and Alaska, but those are the two big name places everyone in >the US thinks of. Actually I think we get more oil from California and Oklahoma than we do Texas. I can't say that I know much about the "quality" of oil but I bet they measure it in $/barrel! >How is drilling new wells, with fancy new technology cheaper than using >existing wells with existing technology, i.e. wells and technology that >are paid for and proven already? > >Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a >truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore. Yes, a lot of them do but a lot of others don't. I think you'll find that the average is a lot lower than 30mpg. Look at the surge in the sales of the huge new SUVs like the new ones from Cadilacc. Would you care to guess what their mileage is? > > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > > mileage. > >Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a >truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore. > > > 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. > >I don't think solar hot water heaters would work very well here in >Michigan. We have to many clouds and overcast days, unfortunately. Yes, they are some areas where some ideas don't work. That's one problem with government solutions, they always to a one-size-fits-all solution. But there are a lot of things that work great on a local basis like David's use of chip-oil to power his car. > > I have one in my home and > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > > out of hot water. > >How does it work? Is it homemade, or a commercial product? It's a mix. About 18 years ago the government was giving tax rabates to people that installed solar energy devices so a lot of solar energy product manufacturers (and salesmen) sprung up. I looked at several ready made systems but most of them left a lot to be desired so I designed my own using commercail components. The state of Florida operates a solar enegy center at Kennedy Space Center and they have tested all the different collectors and other devices and have papers with all the test results. I bought a 4 x 8 foot collector that was rated the second best of all the ones that they had tested. I also bought a good quality 1/10 hp pump, an 80 gallon glass lined Lockenvar tank and a good controller. The controller turns the pump on when the temperature of the collector is 10d higher than that of the water in the tank. In cold weather it also turns the pump on when the collector's temperature drops below 40d F. That pumps hot water from the tank through the collector to keep it from freezing. I also added a mechanically operated vent valve at the top of the collector. It opens when the temperture drops below 38d. When it opens, hot water from the tank flows up through the collector and is then vented. That system relies on water pressure alone and uses no electricity. It's there in case we have freezing tempertures and the power is off. That's about it, there's some bells and whistles like cut off and drain valves, electrical overrides and a flow gauge but they're not really necessary. I put it all in and hooked it up almost 18 years ago and I've had zero problems with it. We don't get a lot of freezing weather here but it has survived down to 12d F. I don't do anything to it to prepare it for old weather, everything is automatic. > > > > > Drilling in new locations is > > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > >Well my point wasn't really the engineering, that was a bonus :-) Gadget freak! Hey, that reminds me, somewhere I have an oil-drilling program ROM for my HP-41. I've played with the programs and read the manual but I'll be dammed if I understand what they're talking about! > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. > >Then why do certain classes of race vehicles use it, if it isn't as >powerful? They make up for the inherent lack of power (about 20% less) by turbo-charging the engines. The Indy cars are a good example. The top fuel dragsters are another good example but they cheat by adding Nitro-Methane! (I once tried 40% alcohol and 40% Nitro-Methane in a model airplane engine. Boy, did that thing go!) Alcohol is preferred because it's a lot safer. Compare an alcohol fire and a gasoline fire sometime. You can literally hold alcohol in your hand while it burns (just put it out before it completely burns up!) > > Alcohol also has > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. > >Doesn't it just take a switch to stainless steal for lines, tank, etc.? You'd think so but I guess there are a lot of "rubber" seals in the pumps, fuel injectors and pressure regulators that aren't as easy to fix. Besides have you ever compared the price of stainless steel vs regular steel? WOW! I'm sure it's not something that the car companies would do willingly. > > A > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > > problems. > >You mean gasohol... I remember that stuff :-) > > > > > > Something might > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > > That would cure the population problem! > >I don't buy the whole population problem deal either, but lets save that >one for later :-) Yeah, let's save that one for another flame-war. Sellam and Richard already have a good one going! Joe >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 9 16:39:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: rough handling.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > minimize damage. So far ever single one of the CD's arrived to it's >> destination totally mangled! Some had the layers seperating, some >> actually bent, others showed signs of reflective layer actually >> flaking off and one had the cancellation stamp from the USPS right on >> it! > >Are you saying that somebody mailed CDs without packing them at all >(that's the only way I can see that a CD would have the cancellation >stamp 'right on it')? I didn't receive one of the CD's myself, as I'm not that familiar with the stuff they're trying to sort, but having received other stuff from the group, I'd think that the CD's were likely mailed in the cardboard disk/CD mailers that are available now. The reports have been floating into that particular list for the last few days. One CD mangled I can see as accidental, but not a whole batch. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 9 16:40:05 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <20010709120553.F7351@mrbill.net> Message-ID: DAK is the name and I think they went under - their prices sucked anyway. Back in 87 a coworker bought an Epson PX-8 from them and really got reamed. Not sure whatever happened to BSR, I haven't been able to locate too many parts for old BSR turntables either, other than replacement needles. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Bradford -> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 12:06 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) -> -> -> On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:13:05AM -0700, Lance Costanzo wrote: -> > According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, -> > RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. -> -> Whatever happened to BSR, and then that other company I kept -> getting catalogs from with techy-type stuff? DAK maybe? -> -> Bill -> -> -- -> Bill Bradford -> mrbill@mrbill.net -> Austin, TX From jbdigriz at i16.net Mon Jul 9 16:38:57 2001 From: jbdigriz at i16.net (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote: > > My 0x0010 cents, > jbdigriz > Wups. That should read "My 16 cents," jbdigriz From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 9 16:42:58 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: VMS Timeline and more In-Reply-To: <200107091927.PAA19435@stage21.ureach.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 09, 2001 03:27:56 PM Message-ID: <200107092142.f69LgwL18153@shell1.aracnet.com> > > http://www.danielcurran.com/vms/vms_hist.html > > Is he thinking of the port of EDT to native mode? > > I thought EVE TPU stuff came out in 3.x... I don't know, one thing I found interesting is he lists V2.5 coming out prior to V2.2. I've no idea where he dug up any of this info, or even who's web pages these are. Still I found the timetable and the rest of the pages interesting as this is the first time I've seen a lot of the info there, even if it does have some errors. I'd really like to know where he got all the minimum version info for the various systems! Though some how I don't think V1.5 was the minimum for a VAX-11/780. Zane From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 9 16:51:19 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: <15178.5872.554931.973178@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <200107092151.XAA08762@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 9 Jul, Dave McGuire wrote: > For SunOS, I'd suggest 4.1.4. I thought 4.1.3 was the end of the flagstaff? Or was that Sun3 only? > Very recent NetBSD will run nicely on that machine as well. As I see from CVS the sun4 3-level MMU is supported in 1.5. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 9 16:38:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jul 9, 1 02:39:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2577 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010709/214cd9e2/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 16:50:22 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Re: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) (Sridhar Ayengar) References: <994703563.3b49f8cb446ee@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <15178.10014.335188.977130@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > I hope you meant 30" wide rather than 30' wide. Anyone know how big a > 4/470 is? I am going to be getting a 4/670-714 soon. 4/670-714? I've never seen the "-714" nomenclature before. Might want to double-check that. Sun VME chassis Beige series x/x10: very narrow deskside or desktop box, 3 slot 9U VME x/x50: narrow deskside box, 6 slot 9U VME x/x60: deskside rollaround chassis, 12 slot 9U VME x/x80: rackmount cube chassis, 12 slot 9U VME, roughly 2'x2'x2', 2x 5.25: FH drive bays Purple series x/x30: narrow deskside box, 3 slot 9U VME, 2 slot 6U VME, two memory slots, two 5.25" FH drive bays x/x70: wide deskside box, 12 slot 9U VME, 4x 5.25" FH drive bays x/x90: tall rack, 16 slot 9U VME CPUs that work in these chassis M68K: 3/50, 3/60, 3/100, 3/110*, 3/200, 3/400 SPARC: 4/100, 4/200, 4/300, 4/400, 4/600 * = departure from standard numbering scheme -Dave McGuire From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 9 16:57:21 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: <200107092003.f69K3kQ36970@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: I think the rackmount version of the 4/470 was called the 4/480. Peace... Sridhar On 9 Jul 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > > I hope you meant 30" wide rather than 30' wide. Anyone know how big a > > 4/470 is? I am going to be getting a 4/670-714 soon. > > 4/470 is a wide deskside pedestal housing VME chassis, power supply, > and a couple 5.25" full-height bays. At least the one I used to use > was; I can imagine the guts being repackaged to fit in a 19" rack > though. The one I used had another similarly-styled deskside pedestal > housing a couple of IPI disk drives. > > -Frank McConnell > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 17:00:22 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Re: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) References: <15178.5872.554931.973178@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107092151.XAA08762@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <15178.10614.96137.325728@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > For SunOS, I'd suggest 4.1.4. > I thought 4.1.3 was the end of the flagstaff? Or was that Sun3 only? 4.1.1_U1 was the last for the Sun3 4.1.4_U1 was the last for SPARC -Dave McGuire From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Jul 9 13:26:48 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: HP Exemplar Message-ID: <3B49F768.40A2D748@diablonet.net> The Exemplar was a MPP supercomputer based upon the PA-RISC chip produced by Convex, which is now owned by HP. It ran a proprietary version of UNIX. It's probably not the rarest thing in the world, but I wouldn't mind having one around. How often do you get the chance to have a supercomputer around the house? :) --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Jul 9 13:36:17 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Indy2 Message-ID: <3B49F9A1.4A746264@diablonet.net> Well, depending on the configuration, the Indigo2 (which I'm assuming you're talking about) can be worth a little or a lot, as someone indicated earlier, which means around $100 to $1000 on eBay, and around $250 to $1500 from a reseller. The system was available with a myriad of processor options (R4x00, R8000, R10000) and video cards (XL,XZ,Elan,Extreme,SI,HI,MI), which are the two factors that primarily affect the price of the computer. Things that increase price: * High-clocked R4400 (200, 250 MHz) or R10000 processor. * IMPACT-ready (purple chassis with SolidImpact, HighImpact, or MaxImpact) * TRAM upgrade installed if system is IMPACT-ready * Internal CD-ROM installed on sled * Large drives and lots of RAM Things that tend to be cheaper: * Lower-clocked R4000, R4600 (100, 133, 150 MHz) * R8000 chip (I think it's a diamond in the rough, 75 MHz) * Non-IMPACT systems (teal chassis with XL, XZ, Elan, or Extreme) * Stripped of RAM and hard disk, no sleds. * Damaged plastics (expensive to replace!) I've got two Indigo2 machines, personally, an R8000/75 and an R4400/250, both with Extreme graphics, and they run wonderfully with IRIX 6.2 and are more than capable of doing anything that I need them to do. They do tend to have a little bit higher resale value than, say, a Sun or a DEC, but, IMHO, a SGI of a given vintage tends to be a little bit more usable as a WORKSTATION than a Sun or a DEC of similar vintage (no flames, please!) :) That said, I'd take a DEC or a Sun as a SERVER over a SGI in most cases. Best of luck with it! --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 17:12:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Re: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) (Sridhar Ayengar) References: <200107092003.f69K3kQ36970@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <15178.11344.235233.450379@phaduka.neurotica.com> More correctly, a 4/400 processor in an 80-series rackmount chassis is a 4/480. -Dave McGuire On July 9, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > > I think the rackmount version of the 4/470 was called the 4/480. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On 9 Jul 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > > > Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > > > I hope you meant 30" wide rather than 30' wide. Anyone know how big a > > > 4/470 is? I am going to be getting a 4/670-714 soon. > > > > 4/470 is a wide deskside pedestal housing VME chassis, power supply, > > and a couple 5.25" full-height bays. At least the one I used to use > > was; I can imagine the guts being repackaged to fit in a 19" rack > > though. The one I used had another similarly-styled deskside pedestal > > housing a couple of IPI disk drives. > > > > -Frank McConnell > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 17:13:20 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Re: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) (Frank McConnell) References: <200107092003.f69K3kQ36970@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <15178.11392.255025.258153@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, Frank McConnell wrote: > though. The one I used had another similarly-styled deskside pedestal > housing a couple of IPI disk drives. There's also a SCSI chassis of the same form factor. -Dave McGuire From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 9 17:36:42 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: <15178.10614.96137.325728@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: And 4.0.2 was the last for Roadrunners, right? Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 9, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > > For SunOS, I'd suggest 4.1.4. > > I thought 4.1.3 was the end of the flagstaff? Or was that Sun3 only? > > 4.1.1_U1 was the last for the Sun3 > 4.1.4_U1 was the last for SPARC > > -Dave McGuire > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 9 17:38:39 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Indy2 In-Reply-To: <3B49F9A1.4A746264@diablonet.net> from "Netdiablo" at Jul 09, 2001 06:36:17 PM Message-ID: <200107092238.f69Mcd724915@shell1.aracnet.com> Sean Caron wrote: > little bit higher resale value than, say, a Sun or a DEC, but, IMHO, a > SGI of a given vintage tends to be a little bit more usable as a > WORKSTATION than a Sun or a > DEC of similar vintage (no flames, please!) :) That said, I'd take a DEC Considering an older SGI system is likely to have a lot better graphics than an older Sun or DEC workstation (both of which seemed to stick with 8-bit until recently), I'd have to agree. That's the one thing I dislike about my Sparc 20 (yes, I can add 24-bit, but it costs a bundle) and my OpenVMS workstations (I did spend a bundle on a 24-bit card for the good one, and it's crap, stay away from the Elsa Gloria under VMS). Of course we all know the real reason that 8-bit graphics no longer cut it. The WWW. Which also seems to be one of the main reasons most people feel the need for a fast processor. Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 17:37:48 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Re: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) (Sridhar Ayengar) References: <15178.10614.96137.325728@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15178.12860.925056.802495@phaduka.neurotica.com> I thought it was 4.0.3, but it may be 4.0.2.. -Dave McGuire On July 9, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > > And 4.0.2 was the last for Roadrunners, right? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On July 9, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > > > For SunOS, I'd suggest 4.1.4. > > > I thought 4.1.3 was the end of the flagstaff? Or was that Sun3 only? > > > > 4.1.1_U1 was the last for the Sun3 > > 4.1.4_U1 was the last for SPARC > > > > -Dave McGuire > > From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jul 9 17:33:18 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470 In-Reply-To: Tom Owad's message of "Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:06:49 -0400" References: <20010709150649.29084@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200107092233.f69MXI441587@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tom Owad wrote: > What's the proper way of removing cards from a Sparcserver 470? I > thought you just pushed out on those plastic tabs and the card would > disconnect and could then be pulled out. Undo the two hex-head screws at the narrow edges of the card's back plate, then push on the plastic tabs (which are card lifters). Just like any other VME Sun. I'm thinking you want to push the tabs away from the center of the card, but it's been a while. -Frank McConnell From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 9 17:52:07 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: FT: BIG HAUL of MAINDEC paper tapes and DEC engineering drawings Message-ID: <20010709175207.Z7351@mrbill.net> I just got in everything below. However, I have no use for / cant read the paper tapes, and the engineering drawings should go to someone who actually has the hardware and can use them. I'd like to trade off any/all of the following for other PDP-11 systems and gear, alternately for RAM or a G3 upgrade for a PowerMac 7600. I have yet to obtain a full "old style" -11 with the full blinkylighten front panel.. Not interested in making a profit, just trying to trade what I've got for excess hardware someone else might have... If interested in any of the below, please email me at mrbill@pdp11.org. Bill Paper Tapes: ------------ Tapes that have (looks new) came out of what appeared to be the original envelopes from DEC, and looked completely unused. as "new" as they can be after almost 30 years, I guess. Otherwise, tapes are in "good used" or "excellent" condition, as far as I can tell - I've never used a paper-tape reader. Most of these tapes are older than I am. 8-) PN Date Desc. -------------------------------------- (loose tapes, bound with rubber bands) MAINDEC-11-DZDLB-A-PB 7/23/75 DL11-E ON LINE TEST MAINDEC-11-DCKB2-A-PB 1/10/73 PDP-11/45 CONSOLE SWITCHES TEST MAINDEC-11-DCMFA-B-PB 5/11/73 COMBINED MOS (MS-11) & CORE (MF-11-LP, MALL-P) PARITY TESTS MAINDEC-11-DZKWA-A-PB 5/10/72 LINE FREQUENCY CLOCK TESTS (looks new) MAINDEC-11-DZLAB-A-PB 7/1972 LC11/LA30 TERMINAL TESTS (looks new) MAINDEC-11-DZITA-A-PB 11/12/75 INTERPROCESSOR TEST PROGRAM (looks new) MAINDEC-11-DZDLD-B-PB 10/27/75 DL11 OVERLAY FOR INTERPROCESSOR TEST PROGRAM (looks new) MAINDEC-11-DZDLB-A-PB 10/31/75 DL11-E ON LINE TEST (looks new) MAINDEC-11-DZDLC-A-PB 10/31/75 DL11-C,D, OR E OFF LINE TEST (looks new) (tapes in either a blue plastic tape carrier or plastic "holders" of some sort, excellent condition) MAINDEC-11-DCKBC-A-PB 3/15/72 XOR INSTRUCTION MAINDEC-11-DCKBR-B-PB 8/73 11/40-11/45 CPU PARITY TEST MAINDEC-11-DLAA-PB 3/30/70 BASIC ADDRESS TEST (UP) MAINDEC-11-DZMME-B-PB 10/11/72 MEMORY MOVING ONES AND ZEROES TEST MAINDEC-11-DZMMI-A-PB 5/15/72 RANDAT MAINDEC-11-DZMMJ-A-B 4/26/72 PDP-11 8K MEMORY SPECIAL MAINDEC-11-DZQMA-D-PB 8/14/72 MEMORY I/O EXERCISER MAINDEC-11-DZMMK-A-PB 6/7/72 UP-DOWN ADDRESS TEST MAINDEC-11-DDGTG-A-PB 11/26/75 GT40/GT44 VISUAL DISPLAY TEST W/VR17 DISPLAY MAINDEC-11-DDGTE-B-PB 11/26/75 GT40 QUICK VERIFY TEST MAINDEC-11-DDGTD-B-PB 11/26/75 GT40 ROM VERIFY TEST MAINDEC-11-DDGTC-B-PB 11/26/75 GT40/GT44 VISUAL DISPLAY TEST w/VR14 DISPLAY MAINDEC-11-DDGTA-C-PB 11/26/75 GT40/GT44 INSTRUCTION TEST I MAINDEC-11-DDGTB-C-PB 11/26/75 GT40/GT44 INSTRUCTION TEST II MAINDEC-11-DZDLB-A-PB 11/26/75 DL11-E ON LINE TEST MAINDEC-11-DZDLC-A-PB 11/26/75 DL11-C,D, & E OFF LINE TEST MAINDEC-11-DXQLJ-B-PR 1/27/76 DEC/X11 11/70 MONITOR LIBRARY MAINDEC-11-DXQLA-E1-PR 1/23/76 DEC/X11 MONITOR LIBRARY #1 MAINDEC-11-DXQLD-I-PR 1/23/76 DEC/X11 COMMUNICATIONS OPTIONS LIBRARY #1 MAINDEC-11-DXQLE-E-PR 1/27/76 DEC/X11 COMMUNICATIONS OPTIONS LIBRARY #2 MAINDEC-11-DXQAD-F-PB 1/23/76 DEC/X11 CONFIGURATOR PROGRAM MAINDEC-11-DXQLB-H-PR 1/23/76 DEC/X11 GENERAL PRODUCTS LIBRARY #1 MAINDEC-11-DXQLC-H1-PR 1/23/76 DEC/X11 GENERAL PRODUCTS LIBRARY #2 MAINDEC-11-DXQLF-E-PR 1/23/76 LAB & INDUSTRIAL OPTIONS MODULE LIBRARY #1 MAINDEC-11-DXQLG-G-PR 1/23/76 LAB & INDUSTRIAL OPTIONS MODULE LIBRARY #2 MAINDEC-11-DXGLH-G1-PR 1/16/76 DEC/X11 NEW OPTIONS MODULE LIBRARY #1 Engineering drawing print sets: ------------------------------- 98% of these are originals, altho some are loose-pages instead of being bound or stapled together. I'm pretty sure everything is complete sets, with some duplicates in fact. Almost everything also has the yellow "print change" sheets with it as well (I guess thats what those are; I havent spent more than 10 minutes looking at them yet). FP11-B RK11-D TM-11 PDP-11/45 RK-05 RK-11D LPS-11-S LA30 VT11 DL11 MF11 LPS-11 G728 BC05P BC05N GT40 M7015 RP11-C H223 TU10A LA36 KT11-C MF11-LP G235 VR14 DR11-C DD11-C -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Jul 9 14:24:21 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: HP Exemplar (excuse me!) Message-ID: <3B4A04E5.6C7C0BB3@diablonet.net> As someone probably noticed already, the HP/Convex Exemplar series of machines were actually SMP, rather than MPP, supercomputers. My apologies! Another aside, if anyone was curious, the name of that proprietary UNIX that they ran was SPP-UX. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From rachael_ at gmx.net Mon Jul 9 19:05:01 2001 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: COPY 190 Message-ID: <1157.591T61T651841rachael_@gmx.net> on 09-Jul-01 03:48:59 Iggy Drougge wrote >Then we found a program called COPY 190 on one of the tapes. It looked very >promising, presenting the user with a menu allowing for transfers between >tapes and disks in any direction. Only it seemed to have one serious bug: it >didn't handle file names with spaces, and just about every file on the tapes >had spaces in them. Has anyone got any experience with this program or any >tips? You can use a wildcard "Army*" then it will find anything starting with army and it will ask if you want to load it. Or if your know the where the program starts on the tape, you can just forward to that place and instead of writing the name simply type * , then will load the first program it finds and afterwards it will prompt for what name to save it under. Remember if you runs copy190 with ABC turbo drive 8 will become unit 9 instead. regards Jacob Dahl Pind -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 9 18:50:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: SCSI Ethernet adapters (was: How much is a partial Lisaworth?) In-Reply-To: <3B4A1014.DDF644CC@drewtech.com> Message-ID: <379.591T1100T504721optimus@canit.se> Michael L. Drew skrev: >I am not sure that this is the same thing.... >I have 3 NuvoLink SC boxes. >They have AUI,BNC and SCSI on the back... Same function, different producer. The Nuvolink is also known by another name IIRC. BTW, if anyone's looking for drivers for the Dayna unit, they're at ftp://download.intel.com/support/dayna/dport772.hqx -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 19:50:34 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: DAK was:Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <20010709120553.F7351@mrbill.net> References: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709204730.00acb500@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:05 PM 7/9/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:13:05AM -0700, Lance Costanzo wrote: > > According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, > > RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. > >Whatever happened to BSR, and then that other company I kept >getting catalogs from with techy-type stuff? DAK maybe? DAK went under about 10 or 12 years ago. Real shame, they had a lot of interesting products. Besides my first X-10 system I've bought bread makers, RADAR detectors, computer driven typewriters, printers and no telling what else from them. Joe >Bill > >-- >Bill Bradford >mrbill@mrbill.net >Austin, TX From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 19:58:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Best ways to drive a Tektronix terminal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709205205.00ac94f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> I don't know of any machine that will drive them other Tektronix machines. However there is a Tektronix 4041 for sale on E-bay right now. The last time that I checked, the price was still cheap. In case you're not familar with it, the 4041 is shoebox sized computer that's usually used as an HP-IB instrument controller. They have a 68000 CPU and run BASIC. They don't have a screen or keyboard but use a terminal instead. Once they're programmed they're usually run with no terminal attached. They do have a very small LED display and a few keys on the front in order to input Yes/No, numbers and other minimal information. They also have a built in tape drive and can auto-load programs in a stand alone mode. Joe At 09:29 AM 7/9/01 -0700, you wrote: >I reciently inherited a rather stout Tektronix terminal. It sits in it's >own stand and appears very solidly built. This machine is the classic >green storage tube phospher (Remember Battlestar Galactica?). > >I used one of these in college many years ago and was wondering if there >were any libraries for cpm era machines I might be able to use to drive >the graphic modes of this ancient terminal. > > >George Rachor > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com >Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com >United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX From louiss at gate.net Mon Jul 9 20:04:49 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:32 2005 Subject: Correct installation of a 2716 eprom In-Reply-To: <005501c10683$8608f160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200107100105.VAA26385@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Another simple question. When a standard single-rail 2716 is installed in a computer, what do you do with the Vpp pin? Tie high, low, or leave alone? If tying, what, if any value resistor should be used? Is this answer different for masked ROMs or other EPROMS? Is there a standard reference book or site that answers questions like this? I don't want to wear out my welcome :-) Louis From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 9 20:08:37 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709092644.00a1c7d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709210026.00ac9ac0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:49 PM 7/9/01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > Tony, > > > > It must be something like that, I'll have to experiment with it. I > > do have the "operator's instructions" for it do you want a copy? They > > explain the controls but that's about all. > >Thanks for the offer, but I think I've figured out how to use it >already... Or at least I can use the main features. > > > > > > FWIW I have a second box that doesn't do the self test. The display > > and other indicators ont he bottom never come on. However the signal LEDs > > seem to work ok. I guess I need to work on it when I have time. > >IIRC, the LEDs in the breakout box part are powered off the RS232 lines, >like in a coventional breakout box. The controls/displays at the bottom >of the panel are controlled by a little microcontroller system inside (I >forget what the CPU is, it's either an 8085, or possibly an 8035, and yes >I do know those are very different). There's also an EPROM containing the >operating software, an 8155 RAM/IO chip, etc. It uses an 8085AH-2 that's programmed in BASIC. However there are two Intersil ICs on the same board as the displays and I suspect that they're the display drivers. I need to research them and see how they're controlled. I suspect that either they're both bad or that something else (the CPU?) is controlling them and not enabling them. They act exactly like youhad turned off the display via the Display button except that they won't turn back on. I have noticed that the CPU is generating it's own RTS signal so it looks like the CPU is at least running. >My guess is that you've got problems with the microcontroller system. The >first thing to check is the inter-board connections. There are 3 PCBs in >there, interconnected by solid-core ribbon cable. A single broken wire >can cause all sorts of problems. > >Then see if the CPU is running, is it accessing the EPROM, etc. Oh, and >of course check the +5V power line early on. I did. It's ok and it's generating the +/- 12 volts for the power outlets on the front panel. >I got mine cheap at a radio rally, not working. The processor and the >8155 were both dead. Fortunately (and I am still wondering how this >happened), the EPROM was good, so I could repair it. I picked both of mine up at a scrap place for free. I was lucky enough to find the two AC wall-warts and operator's instructions at the same time. BTW does your's have batteries in it? Mine don't but it would be nice to add them. Joe >-tony From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 19:27:21 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: VCF Down Under? Message-ID: I'm currently running a survey for guaging the potential for a VCF in Australia. If you are interested in taking the survey and getting your vote in for a possible location, go to: http://www.vintage.org/2001/oz/survey.php G'day! :)~ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 9 20:32:27 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar Ayengar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: DAK was:Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709204730.00acb500@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I would go to other places for common parts at good prices, and if there was something I couldn't find, I would go to DAK. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 12:05 PM 7/9/01 -0500, you wrote: > >On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:13:05AM -0700, Lance Costanzo wrote: > > > According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, > > > RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. > > > >Whatever happened to BSR, and then that other company I kept > >getting catalogs from with techy-type stuff? DAK maybe? > > > DAK went under about 10 or 12 years ago. Real shame, they had a lot > of interesting products. Besides my first X-10 system I've bought bread > makers, RADAR detectors, computer driven typewriters, printers and no > telling what else from them. > > Joe > > > >Bill > > > >-- > >Bill Bradford > >mrbill@mrbill.net > >Austin, TX > From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 9 19:44:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <510.591T2250T1046395optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>Did anybody see this? >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1252001410 >> >>It went for $305.00! >> >>Chad Fernandez >>Michigan, USA >What's so surprising about that? That's *very* cheap!!! So, how does one know what controller is used in a QBUS machine? Are there several 50-pin disk interfaces in use in VAXes? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Jag ?r 35 ?r och citerar planetens och v?rldshistoriens b?sta anime hur mycket jag vill, bl?jbarn." ?ke Rosenius From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 9 20:20:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems Message-ID: <696.591T50T1403915optimus@canit.se> There's been some talk before about adapting those blasted serial mice which are so common on the PC (all current PC mouses are serial, whether they connect to an actual RS232 port or to a "PS/2" connector) to a more sensible quadrature system. Was it Tony or Pete who talked about making a PIC based adaptor? Well, here's your chance, according to the Aminet daily: ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos And look here what turned up today, in relation to the recent LJ III thread: HP_LaserjetIII.lha text/print 14K+Laserjet III Workbench Driver v1.2 -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 9 21:24:50 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars In-Reply-To: <3B4A1BCF.C1EC443E@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <354.591T2500T2046021optimus@canit.se> bill claussen skrev: >I agree Has this list gone from "old computers wanted" to "immerse everyone in iron" and now to "AOL luser HTML parade"? Seriously, set your programs correctly! If you insist on running a program with HTML "features", it's your bloody responsibility to see that no such featuyres end up in my inbox! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 9 20:34:06 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: DAK was:Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709204730.00acb500@mailhost.intellistar.net>; from rigdonj@intellistar.net on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 08:50:34PM -0400 References: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> <20010709120553.F7351@mrbill.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709204730.00acb500@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <20010709203406.O7351@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 08:50:34PM -0400, joe wrote: > DAK went under about 10 or 12 years ago. Real shame, they had a lot > of interesting products. Besides my first X-10 system I've bought bread > makers, RADAR detectors, computer driven typewriters, printers and no > telling what else from them. > Joe Actually i found out otherwise today - www.dak.com. Coming out with another paper catalog soon, as well. yay! 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From curt at atari-history.com Sun Jul 8 20:36:05 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: PLATO IV Terminal Update References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512E9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <001f01c10817$8640aca0$c2609040@syzygy2> Douglas, It should be CDC, several guys from CDC left and came to Atari at one point to work in the Home Computer Division (1982-1984) and among their projects were computers with built in modems for communications and also the Plato Terminal Cartridge for the Atari 8bit computer systems. When the service was running I used to logon, it was amazing to see the color graphics and animation, all well before the advent of Mosiac and "the web" :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: PLATO IV Terminal Update > A small update regarding the search for these rare beasts... > > It was uncertain who had made them, many thinking (assuming) > it was CDC; however, given the last of the three references > below, it appears it may have been made by Magnavox. > > Still want one... > -dq > > > 70mr02 Stifle, J. "A Plasma Display Terminal." CERL Report X-15, M > arch 1970; revised: June 1973. Also appears as "The PLATO IV Student > Terminal." Nov. 1974 > > 74au01 Stifle, J. "The PLATO IV Terminal: Description of Operation." > Revised: Aug. 1974 > > 97xx01 PLATO IV: Site Controller Communications Interface for the > PLATO IV Computer-based Education System. Magnavox, undated. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jul 9 21:08:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Ended auction for qbus SCSI In-Reply-To: <510.591T2250T1046395optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010709190810.029a1040@209.185.79.193> At 01:44 AM 7/10/01 +0100, you wrote: >So, how does one know what controller is used in a QBUS machine? Are there >several 50-pin disk interfaces in use in VAXes? Only two DSSI and SCSI. If the disks have 5 pin power connectors they are DSSI. --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 20:15:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Celebration (intended to be offensive, possible humor) In-Reply-To: <001801c10884$d8c9e5a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Sure, go ahead, but include the entire thread, will you. I bet you > don't have the stones to do that. The relevant portion is you threatening to shoot me in the head. The rest will just make you look like more of an ass. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 9 21:17:58 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: rough handling.... References: Message-ID: <001701c108e6$8d10bff0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 5:39 PM Subject: Re: rough handling.... > > > minimize damage. So far ever single one of the CD's arrived to it's > >> destination totally mangled! Some had the layers seperating, some > >> actually bent, others showed signs of reflective layer actually > >> flaking off and one had the cancellation stamp from the USPS right on > >> it! When I lived in an apartment the mailman folded my Fujitsu COBOL manual and CD to fit them in the mailbox. They had it in the cardboard mailer with the manual to protect it. Now When I get Linux CD's I have them boxed and they send 50 at a time. From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Mon Jul 9 21:14:59 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Correct installation of a 2716 eprom References: <200107100105.VAA26385@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> Message-ID: <3B4A6523.72EA51AA@pacbell.net> Louis Schulman wrote: > > Another simple question. When a standard single-rail 2716 is installed > in a computer, what do you do with the Vpp pin? Tie high, low, or > leave alone? If tying, what, if any value resistor should be used? > For normal operation the Vpp pin should be set to Vcc (ie +5v) Most semiconductor manufacturers have datasheets available on the web. If you don't know where to look, then you can usually get a pretty good set of relevant results from a search engine if you search for the right keywords. For example, if you go to www.google.com, search for: 2716 eprom datasheet and follow the first link, then you will pretty soon find your way to: http://batronix.com/electronic/datasheets/index.shtml and then http://batronix.com/pdf/m2716.pdf which is what you were looking for. From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 20:24:13 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: OT: Dick's lack of a penis (was Re: Stupid discussions) In-Reply-To: <003001c10886$272d3ac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The discussion has become stupid, if only because everybody complains, > yet I'm the only one, so far, that's presented a positive construct. > Everybody else just opposes whatever anyone else says. What does that > tell you? It tells me that you're a fucking moron if you really believe what you are espousing appeals to anyone other than closed-minded, rectum lechers like yourself. The discussion WAS stupid the moment you contributed your typically non-sensical drivel. The only thing you've done so far is annoy the fuck out of everyone here. Why don't you shut the fuck up already? > There's a wide range of what folks perceive as reality. At one > extreme are folks like me who think the law should be strictly obeyed, If there are more of you then I hope you all stay hidden in the shadows like the vermin you are. > and at another extreme are guys like Sellam, and he's not alone in > this, who believe that everybody should do what he, Sellam, wants. You complete tool. How far up your ass did you reach to get this one? > There are probably other, equally extreme positions. Somewhere, > however, there must be a common ground. The trick is for people to > look for that common ground rather than trying to go off by themselves > to do what they want, irrespective of anyone else's rights. The trick is to prepare a party for the day you depart this earth so that we have something positive to occupy us, and look forward to, while you're still here. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Jul 9 21:24:47 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Recent finds @ Indianapolis Hamfest Message-ID: I hadn't been to the Indy hamfest since the late 80's, so went Saturday to see what's new. In some ways, not much. There were still some of the same private vendors as years ago still selling the same stuff. As expected there was more computers and less radio stuff, but that's ok. I did notice that there were around 25-30 various Mac's for sale by individuals. Don't recall prices on these. I did notice that some things were not bargins. One vendor wanted more for current memory (128mb, 168 pin DIMM) than what I paid recently at Office Max. Another wanted $20 for a spindle of CD blanks, got the same thing recently for $5, again at Office Max. I guess it pays to stay current on local prices. There was one commercial vendor who had apparently bought out a mess of stuff from a store going out buisness or some such. Most of it was like the stuff you would find in a Kmart electronics department. All of this stuff was in blister packs, in boxes on several tables, every item for 50 cents. Among the goodies I found were a couple of IBM PC printer cables & an IBM PC keyboard extension cable. The rest was more general like stereo cables & adapters and cable TV stuff. Rummaged through a large bin of CD-ROMs and came away with Microsoft Office 97 Pro and the SR-2 Patch for it, both CD-ROMs for a $1 each. Found a book on FileMaker Pro 2.1 for 20 cents, then later bought the entire software package (still shrink-wrapped) for $1. All in all, a good days haul, and saw some old friends from the days I was more active in amatuer radio. May have to make an effort to visit more hamfests in the future. Mike Thompson From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Jul 9 21:24:49 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Attention NeXT Owners Message-ID: <129.12e0293.287bc171@aol.com> I acquired some NeXT stuff. At this point it does not looking too promising mostly due to the monitors (all mono). The ones I have fired up are very dim and require a flashlight to be able to read the screen. Some questions for the list: I have adjusted the screen control on terminals like the VT320, so I was wondering is there a comparable control in the NeXT N4000 monitor? Depending on the monitor situation, I may have some spares with regards to keyboards, mice, cables, etc. I was wondering if the keyboards and mice are hot swappable. Can I boot a machine and test several keyboards or mice without a reboot for each? Next I would like to know if there are any current owners that are looking for a specific item to get their machine up and running. Granted we all know that there are plenty of list members wanting to acquire the first NeXT, But at this point I don't know if I am going to have even one good complete machine out of the mess. Therefore I would like to hear from those that just need an item or two. I am not offering at this time, just trying to get some direction as I tackle the job of discovering what I have and what works. If and when I figure that out, I will post what is available. Thanks, Mike Thompson From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 20:25:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give creditcard AND bank account info!) In-Reply-To: <3B49C635.6E0E6E80@kcinter.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: > I respectfully disagree, Sellyouritem.com is a new site and does have > the category for classic equipment. There are many folks that have > had bids. Everyone keeps saying that they are wanting to have an > alternative to the high fees at ebay, yet no one seems to want to do > what it takes to create that alternative. It seems to me that folks > on this list have stated many times that they want a place to put > their wares, yet here is one place that is willing to work with the > users and some are not wanting to give it a chance. Rome wasn't built > in a day nor was ebay. Screw SellYourItem.Com. Use the VCF classified ads board (coming soon :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 20:33:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: <994693886.3b49d2fea93fa@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Ob classiccmp: Does anyone have a Zuse Z1 that I can have for the > cost of shipping? Sure. I'll need blasting powder, a front loader, a moving van, and a round-trip cargo vessel to Germany (plus several thousand Deutschmarks ;) Meet me in Berlin at the Deutches Technik Museum. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 20:36:28 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > It's been one long, drawn out Midol Moment around here for nearly two > weeks. Please take it elsewhere. I joined this list to be able to > learn more about old computers and maybe increase my stash of goodies. > Unfortunately, the list is being inundated with some of the most > bizarre socio-politicol folderol that I've ever seen. Occasionaly OT > runs are to be expected. We're a very varied bunch with a pretty > impressive array of interests. Unfortunately, when the irrelevant > totally overwhelms the relevent, problems arrive, tempers flare and > interesting people leave the list. That's not fair to the rest of us > left. I have an idea. Let's implement the Dick "Big Tool" Erlacher method of list moderation. Anyone should have the capability of blocking anyone else from the list. That way, people will certainly stay on topic as the moment they go off topic (and offend someone) they will be instantly blocked, no questions asked. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 20:38:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Off Topic Crap - Back on topic.. In-Reply-To: <01070920234900.00371@jos> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, jos.mar wrote: > Why ? It was never functional ! Yes it was! Maybe you're thinking of the Analytical Engine? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 20:40:53 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote: > Or should we shoot him, Dick? By the way, I see your points, and I > think you and Sellam are actually arguing from the same position, I Please, are you making a funny? This couldn't be further from the truth. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 9 20:43:03 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Zuse Z1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: More links on Zuse computers can be found in this section of the VCF Link Library: http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl#resources Look about 20 links down from the top of the Computer History Resources section. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 9 17:48:39 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: rough handling.... In-Reply-To: <001701c108e6$8d10bff0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20010710024434.BARJ216.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Mike Kenzie" > To: > Subject: Re: rough handling.... > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:17:58 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Proper packaging is the key. Thanks to first 3 power mac 601 cpu on logicboards crunched caused by improper shipping packaging. The 4th one I hope won't come in this way according to 4th seller packed and boxed in another box with packing stuff. All first 3 were from one sellers each. Already told them and couple is willing to refund or replace. The first seller I don't mind bec it was asis condition but I knew it wasn't the problem itself but poor packaging ruined that initial stuff I bought. This begat the next 2. I'm amazed that cd got ruined and shedding it's shiny tressels. I couldn't get CDs to break by hammering hard edge-on onto table. Only that I can do it is fold and close them like a duck's mouth clamping on an insect. PING!...and hear twirkles short later. they shattered and bits and jagged bits let fly all over. Even some bits flew 5 feet away. Wasn't those ruined cds shipped in it's soft sleeves? My parents while back ordered big pile of audio cds via a well-known mail-order place and they came intact in a simple small box and all of them were in their jewel boxes. About 6 orders total I think around 8 titles appox each order. Cheers, Wizard From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Jul 9 23:50:18 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars References: <354.591T2500T2046021optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B4A8989.84DC4EC2@kcinter.net> ? What are you talking about Bill Iggy Drougge wrote: > bill claussen skrev: > > >I agree > > Has this list gone from "old computers wanted" to "immerse everyone in iron" > and now to "AOL luser HTML parade"? > > Seriously, set your programs correctly! If you insist on running a program > with HTML "features", it's your bloody responsibility to see that no such > featuyres end up in my inbox! > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From kfergaso at swbell.net Mon Jul 9 22:49:14 2001 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) Message-ID: <0GG80052UL7JO7@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> I've never heard of 4.1.4_U1, so if anyone has that, I would like to see it. Sun put out a 4.1.3_U1, and then 4.1.4. The companies I have worked at all had software support, so I believe I would have seen a _U1, but you never know. Kelly Hi Dave McGuire, you wrote on 7/9/01 4:37:48 PM: > > I thought it was 4.0.3, but it may be 4.0.2.. > > -Dave McGuire > >On July 9, Sridhar Ayengar wrote: > > And 4.0.2 was the last for Roadrunners, right? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On July 9, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > > > For SunOS, I'd suggest 4.1.4. > > > I thought 4.1.3 was the end of the flagstaff? Or was that Sun3 only? > > > > 4.1.1_U1 was the last for the Sun3 > > 4.1.4_U1 was the last for SPARC > > > > -Dave McGuire > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Jul 9 23:51:29 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Way too much computer stuff in my basement...any good ebay alternatives for unloading some of this? (ebay seller must now give creditcard AND bank account info!) References: Message-ID: <3B4A89D0.55A48CA3@kcinter.net> I'll be happy to look at it, but screwing an up and coming site is just plain stupid. Bill Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > > I respectfully disagree, Sellyouritem.com is a new site and does have > > the category for classic equipment. There are many folks that have > > had bids. Everyone keeps saying that they are wanting to have an > > alternative to the high fees at ebay, yet no one seems to want to do > > what it takes to create that alternative. It seems to me that folks > > on this list have stated many times that they want a place to put > > their wares, yet here is one place that is willing to work with the > > users and some are not wanting to give it a chance. Rome wasn't built > > in a day nor was ebay. > > Screw SellYourItem.Com. Use the VCF classified ads board (coming soon :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Jul 9 22:06:11 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: VCF Down Under? References: Message-ID: <028001c108ed$464ff0c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 9:57 AM Subject: VCF Down Under? > I'm currently running a survey for guaging the potential for a VCF in > Australia. Sounds great! > If you are interested in taking the survey and getting your vote in for a > possible location, go to: > http://www.vintage.org/2001/oz/survey.php Ok, will do. Is it important to get vast throngs to make it financially viable, or will smaller numbers suffice? This would affect your choice of venue somewhat, especially on a population basis. ie Sydney has ~3+ million people (I think) Adelaide around 1 million. > G'day! :)~ Hopefully, I'll be able to say that to you in person if this comes off. Onya! Cheers Geoff in Oz From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 22:04:58 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) In-Reply-To: Re: Sparcserver 490 (was: getting cards out of a Sparcserver 470) (Kelly Fergason) References: <0GG80052UL7JO7@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <15178.28890.85056.678400@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, Kelly Fergason wrote: > I've never heard of 4.1.4_U1, so if anyone has that, > I would like to see it. > > Sun put out a 4.1.3_U1, and then 4.1.4. The > companies I have worked at all had software support, > so I believe I would have seen a _U1, but you never know. It does indeed exist. I don't have it here, but I have run it. A thorough knowledge of C and friends willing to give you stolen copies of the source code is far better than any support Sun has ever offered. ;) -Dave McGuire From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Jul 9 22:04:28 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: MicroFiche scanner Message-ID: A local auction has a 4000 DPI drum scanner. Good enough to scan uFiche? By my calculations that would give 100-150 DPI, probably good enough for text, but a little weak for graphics.... Comments? Clint PS I'm going to bid on the fiche set on Ebay ;) From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Jul 9 22:05:47 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! Message-ID: Don't be the first to get voted off the mailing list!!!! 1 Million '386 PCs for the last person to get voted off :) From Glenatacme at aol.com Mon Jul 9 22:16:05 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) Message-ID: <55.18182fb1.287bcd75@aol.com> In a message dated 7/9/01 8:33:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > Florida recently dropped their motorcycle helmet law too. Or rather > you don't hav eto wear a helmet if you have insurance. If you don't have > insurance then you still have to wear a helmet. Joe, what type of insurance are you referring to? AFAIK insurance is required for motorcycles same as it is for cars here in FL. IMHO it's crazy to be on a motorcycle without a helmet, so why not just abandon the helmet requirement and let Darwin have the last word . . . Glen 0/0 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Jul 9 22:16:54 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems References: <696.591T50T1403915optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <02b401c108ee$c53f8e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Classic computing" Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems > There's been some talk before about adapting those blasted serial mice > which are so common on the PC (all current PC mouses are serial, whether they > connect to an actual RS232 port or to a "PS/2" connector) to a more sensible > quadrature system. Was it Tony or Pete who talked about making a PIC based > adaptor? > Well, here's your chance, according to the Aminet daily: > > ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController > ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos I have several Vaxstations and some DG Aviions. Does this mod make it able to work on one or the other of these? DEC mice are obtainable here (if you can afford them, so a cheaper way is good.) but I can't seem to find anything for my Aviion, DG are silent/disinterested in anything that old. I have PLENTY of garden variety serial/PS2 style mice..... Cheers Geoff in OZ From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 22:19:36 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) (Glenatacme@aol.com) References: <55.18182fb1.287bcd75@aol.com> Message-ID: <15178.29768.295013.905968@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > IMHO it's crazy to be on a motorcycle without a helmet, so why not just > abandon the helmet requirement and let Darwin have the last word . . . Because our society and government are built around protecting the stupid. -Dave McGuire From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jul 9 22:29:44 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: RA90/RA81 drives available References: <15171.52032.644624.279490@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3B4A76A8.675FCA34@aurora.regenstrief.org> Just in case people haven't run in your door yet, would you consider shipping me one or two of your RA90s? The shipping with UPS or USPS should only be about $12 and I'm happy to pay for the required packaging. Thanks, -Gunther Dave McGuire wrote: > > Anyone interested in some RA90s? I have eight available for pickup > in Laurel, MD. I also have a pair of RA81s in a short rack. Email me > off-list to arrange pickup. First come (well, first email), first > served. > > -Dave McGuire -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jul 9 22:29:54 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: RA90/RA81 drives available References: <15171.52032.644624.279490@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3B4A76B2.C6A8E19A@aurora.regenstrief.org> Just in case people haven't run in your door yet, would you consider shipping me one or two of your RA90s? The shipping with UPS or USPS should only be about $12 and I'm happy to pay for the required packaging. Thanks, -Gunther Dave McGuire wrote: > > Anyone interested in some RA90s? I have eight available for pickup > in Laurel, MD. I also have a pair of RA81s in a short rack. Email me > off-list to arrange pickup. First come (well, first email), first > served. > > -Dave McGuire -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 22:30:02 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: RA90/RA81 drives available In-Reply-To: Re: RA90/RA81 drives available (Gunther Schadow) References: <15171.52032.644624.279490@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B4A76A8.675FCA34@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <15178.30394.217174.11743@phaduka.neurotica.com> Ordinarily I would be willing to do this, but my life is all but falling apart at the seams right now and I'm afraid I just don't have the cycles. I'm sorry, man.. -Dave McGuire On July 9, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Just in case people haven't run in your door yet, would you consider > shipping me one or two of your RA90s? The shipping with UPS or USPS > should only be about $12 and I'm happy to pay for the required packaging. > > Thanks, > -Gunther > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > Anyone interested in some RA90s? I have eight available for pickup > > in Laurel, MD. I also have a pair of RA81s in a short rack. Email me > > off-list to arrange pickup. First come (well, first email), first > > served. > > > > -Dave McGuire > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jul 9 22:42:31 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 Message-ID: <3B4A79A7.3FDCEBD9@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I got a good deal of a Commodore 1701 monitor on eBay, just that it was not well packed and damaged during the USPS trip. Now I have a lightly damaged enclosure with everything inside apparently working except the horizontal scan. The picture is squeezed into one single vertical line in the middle of the screen. So, what's next? Does anyone have a schematics of that monitor, so I could find my way through without an oscilloscope? Any idea how I could get an oscilloscope for repairing this? Any idea where I should start? I once repaired something on a TV set which was amazingly simple, but I'm not sure I can redo that here without help. Thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From jpk at jpk.co.nz Mon Jul 9 22:46:13 2001 From: jpk at jpk.co.nz (Jason Kyle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: <696.591T50T1403915optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710153817.00aac0e0@pop3.xtra.co.nz> Hi, Most mice actually start off with quatrature output position detectors and are then converted to serial. I had to replace an Amiga2000 mouse once, ended up removing the mouse chip and wiring the detector outputs straight into the amiga mouse port - works fine - no PIC required. Jason Kyle PS Hello from New Zealand, anyone else on the list from NZ? Know of any secret PDP stash in this part of the world :) At 13:20 10/07/2001, you wrote: >There's been some talk before about adapting those blasted serial mice >which are so common on the PC (all current PC mouses are serial, whether they >connect to an actual RS232 port or to a "PS/2" connector) to a more sensible >quadrature system. Was it Tony or Pete who talked about making a PIC based >adaptor? >Well, here's your chance, according to the Aminet daily: > >ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController >ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos > >And look here what turned up today, in relation to the recent LJ III thread: > >HP_LaserjetIII.lha text/print 14K+Laserjet III Workbench Driver v1.2 > >-- >En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 9 22:47:36 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <15178.29768.295013.905968@phaduka.neurotica.com> from Dave McGuire at "Jul 9, 2001 11:19:36 pm" Message-ID: <200107100347.UAA20583@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > IMHO it's crazy to be on a motorcycle without a helmet, so why not just > > abandon the helmet requirement and let Darwin have the last word . . . > > Because our society and government are built around protecting the > stupid. More to the point, my tax dollars go to pay the unpaid medical bills of the stupid, and when too many stupid people get head injuries my car and health insurance rates go up. If there's an outcry against helmet laws, here's a simple solution. Require riders who don't wear helmets to either get additional "no helmet inurance," or post a $50k bond to cover their additional health costs in the case of an accident. Fines for riders not carrying proof of either should be set at a sufficient level to cover the cost of care for the riders who don't have either. The other option, and a fine one IMHO, is to deny health care to riders who are injured while not wearing a helmet. Eric From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 9 22:52:11 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710153817.00aac0e0@pop3.xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <20010710035211.57089.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jason Kyle wrote: > PS Hello from New Zealand, anyone else on the list from NZ? Know of any > secret PDP stash in this part of the world :) No, but I've *been* to New Zealand. I can recommend it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Jul 9 23:07:06 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: RA90/RA81 drives available References: <15171.52032.644624.279490@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B4A76A8.675FCA34@aurora.regenstrief.org> <15178.30394.217174.11743@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3B4A7F6A.A185E4A8@aurora.regenstrief.org> Dave McGuire wrote: > > Ordinarily I would be willing to do this, but my life is all but > falling apart at the seams right now and I'm afraid I just don't have > the cycles. I'm sorry, man.. sheesh, sounds quite bad, I hope you'll recover. Forget about the ' drives and get your life back together! -Gunther > > -Dave McGuire > > On July 9, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Just in case people haven't run in your door yet, would you consider > > shipping me one or two of your RA90s? The shipping with UPS or USPS > > should only be about $12 and I'm happy to pay for the required packaging. > > > > Thanks, > > -Gunther > > > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > > Anyone interested in some RA90s? I have eight available for pickup > > > in Laurel, MD. I also have a pair of RA81s in a short rack. Email me > > > off-list to arrange pickup. First come (well, first email), first > > > served. > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > -- > > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 9 23:07:37 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all That Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Attention NeXT Owners In-Reply-To: <129.12e0293.287bc171@aol.com> Message-ID: I could use a keyboard and mouse. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > I acquired some NeXT stuff. At this point it does not looking too > promising mostly due to the monitors (all mono). The ones I have > fired up are very dim and require a flashlight to be able to read > the screen. Some questions for the list: > > I have adjusted the screen control on terminals like the VT320, so > I was wondering is there a comparable control in the NeXT N4000 > monitor? > > Depending on the monitor situation, I may have some spares with regards > to keyboards, mice, cables, etc. I was wondering if the keyboards and > mice are hot swappable. Can I boot a machine and test several keyboards > or mice without a reboot for each? > > Next I would like to know if there are any current owners that are looking > for a specific item to get their machine up and running. Granted we all > know that there are plenty of list members wanting to acquire the first NeXT, > But at this point I don't know if I am going to have even one good complete > machine out of the mess. Therefore I would like to hear from those > that just need an item or two. I am not offering at this time, just > trying to get some direction as I tackle the job of discovering what > I have and what works. If and when I figure that out, I will post > what is available. > > Thanks, > Mike Thompson > From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Jul 9 23:13:36 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Or should we shoot him, Dick? By the way, I see your points, and I > > think you and Sellam are actually arguing from the same position, I > > Please, are you making a funny? This couldn't be further from the truth. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > It's reassuring you can find humor in the throes of such intemperance, but no, I was serious. Maybe I can phrase it better- you're both making the same argument from different positions. Different roads, maybe. Same destination. A laudable one, too. Perhaps it's time to put this one to bed? jbdigriz From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 9 23:12:15 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: RA90/RA81 drives available In-Reply-To: Re: RA90/RA81 drives available (Gunther Schadow) References: <15171.52032.644624.279490@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B4A76A8.675FCA34@aurora.regenstrief.org> <15178.30394.217174.11743@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3B4A7F6A.A185E4A8@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <15178.32927.175397.661097@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Ordinarily I would be willing to do this, but my life is all but > > falling apart at the seams right now and I'm afraid I just don't have > > the cycles. I'm sorry, man.. > > sheesh, sounds quite bad, I hope you'll recover. Forget about the ' > drives and get your life back together! Thanks man, workin' on it...not much else to do but that... -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 10 00:31:30 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010709222408.02a0d5a0@209.185.79.193> Ok, here is a stump the audience question. I've got a board that I found that was made by SMS. Its dual width, has a 50 pin header that is terminated like a SCSI connection. A boatload of chips one big one marked N8X305N A SKS8427 CT (hand lettered #4 on it) and it is a 50! pin DIP (extra wide like 900 mils vs 300 or 600) There are a bunch of PALs with various serial numbers on them, 3 LEDs on the card edge (with the 50 pin connector) and a few jumpers, one connector marked "P4" (26 pin 2 x 13, .1" spacing) about mid-board. On the back it is marked: ProG Assy: 1002049-0001 Assy No: 0004356-0001 Serial Num TS 1668 Anyway, if I plug it into my trusty VAX and do a SHO DEV it doesn't appear, but if I do a SHO QBUS I've now got what the system thinks is a TSV05 installed. This makes me wonder if it isn't a board that one can connect to a SCSI Cipher tape and get TSV05 emulation out of it. Anyone heard of this thing? --Chuck From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jul 10 00:31:41 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: QBUS Board ID? (Chuck McManis) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010709222408.02a0d5a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <15178.37693.384635.877538@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 9, Chuck McManis wrote: > Ok, here is a stump the audience question. > > I've got a board that I found that was made by SMS. Its dual width, has a > 50 pin header that is terminated like a SCSI connection. A boatload of > chips one big one marked > > N8X305N A Not that this will help much, but the 8X305 is a zippy little microcontroller that was the predecessor of today's PIC family. -Dave McGuire From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 01:32:37 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Reading first of VMS 3.2 TU-58s now! Message-ID: <20010710063237.71085.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to all and sundry for the help... I have a TU-58 drive from a VAX-11/730 sitting on top of my old PC, new rubber (tygon) rollers, a custom power cable, parts from a DataRAM chassis for a serial adapter, and PUTR from www.dbit.com all rolled together. I tested the rig by slurping up a three-tape set of Ultrix 2.2 standalone boot. Running "strings" on the first image reveals all the sorts of messages one would expect in a VAX boot program. In a few minutes, I hope to be looking at something similar for VMS 3.2. Got lots of tapes to read in. The process seems to run about 4 tapes per hour with all the seek time (the media is 4:1 interleaved which is supposed to improve performance on file access, but for a physical backup, it sucks). By tomorrow I should have something interesting. I wonder if any of the VAX emulators support console media? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 10 01:08:27 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home Message-ID: Here's a chap in Bristol, England, with various PC bits to give away. Please reply to original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:08:38 +0200 From: "James M. BRYANT, G4CLF" Subject: Re: Old PCs in Bristol - England I have the following:- Compaq Deskpro 386 (forget how big the hard drive is) IBM PC-XT 3 Keyboards 2 13" Colour monitors 1 13" Green monitor 386 Twinhead B&W notebook, PSU and mouse Victor AT B&W Laptop & PSU - twin 720 Kbyte floppies, no hard drive 16-bit Sound card - unused -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 02:26:10 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Unhappy news about VMS 3.2 distro In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010708215801.025c0480@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20010710072610.43021.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> >From a string search of the first tape image: This kit provides the new facilities and fixes to bring an existing VMS V3.1D system up to the V3.2 level. It must be installed on a V3.1 system. Anyone have VMS 3.1? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 10 02:41:44 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010709222408.02a0d5a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <200107100741.JAA11053@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 9 Jul, Chuck McManis wrote: > Anyway, if I plug it into my trusty VAX and do a SHO DEV it doesn't appear, > but if I do a SHO QBUS I've now got what the system thinks is a TSV05 > installed. This makes me wonder if it isn't a board that one can connect to > a SCSI Cipher tape and get TSV05 emulation out of it. Anyone heard of this > thing? Get out your old ohm meter and measure the resistence of the 50 pins of the header to GND. If it looks like SCSI I would connect an old SCSI tape and try... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 10 01:42:07 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: Tandy TRS-80 Model 3 needs home Message-ID: As always, reply to original sender. Reply-To: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:53:31 -0700 From: John.Flaherty@intermec.com Subject: Tandy TRS 80 model-3 I am the owner of a Tandy TRS-80, model 3 which is looking for a home (presumably a collector) It is "pristine" * dust cover * dual disk drive * vintage '82 * 48K RAM * operator's manual * TRS-DOS manual * other stuff * a few disks probably including SuperScriptsit (word processor) * all original packing materials, includes box and padding (but these are not quite so "pristine") As far as I know it is in perfect working order, at least it was when put into storage (has not been powered-up since) --- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 10 01:50:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:33 2005 Subject: VCF Down Under? In-Reply-To: <028001c108ed$464ff0c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Is it important to get vast throngs to make it financially viable, or > will smaller numbers suffice? This would affect your choice of venue > somewhat, especially on a population basis. ie Sydney has ~3+ million > people (I think) Adelaide around 1 million. I'm putting the cut-off at 50 people saying they WILL come. That and above and we're on :) Significantly below that and it doesn't quite justify the costs of a full-blown VCF :( I'd love to visit Australia though :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 10 01:52:27 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 In-Reply-To: <3B4A79A7.3FDCEBD9@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > I got a good deal of a Commodore 1701 monitor on eBay, just that it > was not well packed and damaged during the USPS trip. Now I have a > lightly damaged enclosure with everything inside apparently working > except the horizontal scan. The picture is squeezed into one single > vertical line in the middle of the screen. So, what's next? Call whatever shipping company handled it and ask them what form you need to fill out to get them to pay for your damaged item :( Or contact the seller and tell him it was his fault for not properly packing it. Probably have better luck with the shipper, but they may balk because of the poor packaging. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 10 01:53:55 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Off Topic Crap - Stop It Now! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote: > It's reassuring you can find humor in the throes of such intemperance, > but no, I was serious. Maybe I can phrase it better- you're both > making the same argument from different positions. Different roads, > maybe. Same destination. A laudable one, too. No. > Perhaps it's time to put this one to bed? Let's. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com Tue Jul 10 03:17:17 2001 From: Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Stupid discussions and a Xerox floppy format question Message-ID: > There's a wide range of what folks perceive as reality. Yeah, my take on it all is that the sunspots have got to a few people on this list too. Oldham, Bradford, ClassicCmp.. "has the world gone mad or is it me?" :-) Now then, the real reason for my post: does anyone have a tool for formatting floppies in Xerox "Pilot" format, for use with GVWin? If not, does anyone have any docs relating to the Pilot format so that I could write my own formatter tool? Thanks in advance! Al From rschaefe at gcfn.org Tue Jul 10 05:19:35 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: SperryPC 384K memory board Message-ID: Found this a while back, and it's been sitting here ever since. Anyone interested in it, for trade or something maybe? Part number F5058-00 A (I think), serial number 47y791. I hate to let this kind of stuff just lay around, when someone could be using it! Contact me off-list, I'm not subscribed. Bob rschaefe@gcfn.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 10 06:04:45 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Don't be the first to get voted off the mailing list!!!! > > 1 Million '386 PCs for the last person to get voted off :) I've been ignoring the off-topic rants- I hope there is *not* a serious discussion regarding voting someone off the list... even though it might be fun to kid about. My reasoning being, democracy becomes majoritarianism just prior to its becoming fascism... Regards, -doug q p.s. I really need all 1 million of those 386s for the Hypercube I'm thinking of building (just to bring it back on-topic...) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 10 06:27:52 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: PLATO Gallery (Was: RE: PLATO IV Terminal Update) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EC@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Douglas, > > It should be CDC, several guys from CDC left and came to Atari at one > point to work in the Home Computer Division (1982-1984) and among their > projects were computers with built in modems for communications and also the > Plato Terminal Cartridge for the Atari 8bit computer systems. When the > service was running I used to logon, it was amazing to see the color > graphics and animation, all well before the advent of Mosiac and "the web" While CDC provided the mainframe hardware support, Donald Bitzer at the University of Illinois created PLATO. Around 1981, UofI and CDC parted ways, with both retaining ownership of PLATO. But every piece of CDC equipment I've ever said had the distinctive style of CDC equipment design, and the PLATO plasma display terminal didn't have the CDC look. Seems I vaguely recall being told 25 years ago that they were indeed made by Magnavox. PLATO still lives, you know, at least the UofI version does, as NovaNET. I've been granted access to NovaNET as a "distinguished visiting scholar". I've put a gallery of PLATO scren shots at: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cdc/post-login.jpg http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cdc/llist-index.jpg http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cdc/recreation.jpg http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cdc/choose.jpg and then a more complete gallery at: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/plato_index.html that brings you to a page that has thumbnails of the entire gallery. If you're on a slow link, you may want to jump straight to the first frame: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/plato/html/PlatoIV-00.html then you can "press" "Next" each frame to advance to the next. This way, it plays back a little bit like it looked on screen, except the tiny amount of animation the lesson provides can't be seen on these pages. I have a second gallery, showing the multi-user game EMPIRE, but right now I'm shy of space to upload it. Regards, -doug quebbeman From pechter at bg-tc-ppp889.monmouth.com Tue Jul 10 06:29:08 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp889.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.4 In-Reply-To: <0GG80052UL7JO7@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> from Kelly Fergason at "Jul 9, 2001 09:49:14 pm" Message-ID: <200107101129.f6ABT8o00582@bg-tc-ppp889.monmouth.com> > > I've never heard of 4.1.4_U1, so if anyone has that, > I would like to see it. > > Sun put out a 4.1.3_U1, and then 4.1.4. The > companies I have worked at all had software support, > so I believe I would have seen a _U1, but you never know. > > Kelly There may have been a 4.1.4_U1 -- but I'm unsure of it. There might have been a 4.1.4 with y2k patches remastered for special customers. Lucent did have a special 4.1.4 varient made up for them with the y2k fixes (it was supposedly some auto-install patch tape.) I've got 4.1.4 with my Sparc here... I'd love to see a 4.1.4_U1 if available. Bill From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 07:28:53 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all That Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: I'm intrigued. What are you doing with this hypercube? Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Don't be the first to get voted off the mailing list!!!! > > > > 1 Million '386 PCs for the last person to get voted off :) > > I've been ignoring the off-topic rants- I hope there is > *not* a serious discussion regarding voting someone off > the list... even though it might be fun to kid about. > > My reasoning being, democracy becomes majoritarianism > just prior to its becoming fascism... > > Regards, > -doug q > > p.s. I really need all 1 million of those 386s for the > Hypercube I'm thinking of building (just to bring it > back on-topic...) > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 10 07:56:03 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I'm intrigued. What are you doing with this hypercube? > > Peace... Sridhar Arthur Clarke once wrote a story about some Tibetan (or nearby) Buddhist monks using a computer to iterate all the names of God, so that they could bring the world to an end. Or maybe it was bradbury, but it seems I recall Clarke... Once good application would be to create an intelligent filter for the ClassicCmp mailing list, to keep all the off-topic discussions out of my mailbox. Yeah, they bug me too, but OTOH I wouldn't want the flow censored *for* me, only *by* me... Regards, -dq From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jul 10 07:27:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: rough handling.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >days. One CD mangled I can see as accidental, but not a whole batch. How many AOL CDs out of the hundreds that come in the mail are mangled, for me zero, which points the finger at bad CDR media IMHO. From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 08:24:57 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all That Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Arthur Clarke once wrote a story about some Tibetan (or > nearby) Buddhist monks using a computer to iterate all > the names of God, so that they could bring the world to > an end. Or maybe it was bradbury, but it seems I recall > Clarke... What if there is one or more names of God of infinite length? Peace... Sridhar From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jul 10 08:33:05 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: now motorcycle helmets. was Re: 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <55.18182fb1.287bcd75@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010710092851.01f356e0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:16 PM 7/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/9/01 8:33:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > > > Florida recently dropped their motorcycle helmet law too. Or rather > > you don't hav eto wear a helmet if you have insurance. If you don't have > > insurance then you still have to wear a helmet. > >Joe, what type of insurance are you referring to? AFAIK insurance is >required for motorcycles same as it is for cars here in FL. No it's not. Unbelieveable as that may seem. Check with the DVM for details. >IMHO it's crazy to be on a motorcycle without a helmet, IMO it's crazy to ride a motorcycle in Orlando at all! That's why my Honda 550 is sitting in the back yard rusting away. > so why not just >abandon the helmet requirement and let Darwin have the last word . . . Maybe that's what the state wants :-/ Joe >Glen >0/0 From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 10 08:32:58 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? References: <200107100741.JAA11053@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <006901c10945$059f3d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Jochen said: >Get out your old ohm meter and measure the resistence of the 50 pins of >the header to GND. If it looks like SCSI I would connect an old SCSI >tape and try... OK I'll bite. Compare & contrast SCSI and Pertec, OHM-ically. I for one wouldn't know what I was looking for in such a test. John A. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jul 10 08:48:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <200107100347.UAA20583@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <15178.29768.295013.905968@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010710093447.00ac6060@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:47 PM 7/9/01 -0700, Eric wrote: > > > IMHO it's crazy to be on a motorcycle without a helmet, so why not just > > > abandon the helmet requirement and let Darwin have the last word . . . > > > > Because our society and government are built around protecting the > > stupid. > >More to the point, my tax dollars go to pay the unpaid medical bills >of the stupid, and when too many stupid people get head injuries my car >and health insurance rates go up. Hell, that applies to anything you can name; car crash victums, skate boarding accidents, people tripping on the side walks, etc etc etc. The list is endless. Should you let the "hospital costs" rational be used to govern everything we do? I don't think so. What if the next law is that no one will be allowed to work on their own computers since they could be injured and the public would have to pay the cost of their hospitalization? Rediculous? Not really. That's the exact rational that was used to pass the helmets laws to begin with and from what Tony says the UK isn't far from enacting such non-sensical regulations. >If there's an outcry against helmet laws, here's a simple solution. >Require riders who don't wear helmets to either get additional "no helmet >inurance," That appears to be exactly what the state of Florida has done. So far it seems to be working. The motorcycle riders are now happy since they don't have to wear hwelmets, the insurance companies are very happy $$$$$$ and the state isn't caught in the middle any more. FWIW it's rare to see a rider wearing a helmet around here now and I haven't heard of any cases of peole being busted for not having insurance. >or post a $50k bond to cover their additional health costs in >the case of an accident. Fines for riders not carrying proof of either >should be set at a sufficient level to cover the cost of care for the >riders who don't have either. > >The other option, and a fine one IMHO, is to deny health care to >riders who are injured while not wearing a helmet. It all sounds fine except for the last part. There's no way that they're going to deny emergency health care to anyone. Besides I wouldn't want them to. Can you imagine the precedence that it would set? The next thing you know they'd be dening emergency care for any rediculous reason. Joe >Eric From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jul 10 09:14:11 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: from Master of all That Sucks at "Jul 10, 1 09:24:57 am" Message-ID: <200107101414.HAA11576@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Arthur Clarke once wrote a story about some Tibetan (or > > nearby) Buddhist monks using a computer to iterate all > > the names of God, so that they could bring the world to > > an end. Or maybe it was bradbury, but it seems I recall > > Clarke... > > What if there is one or more names of God of infinite length? Good point. The story, for Douglas, was indeed by Clarke, and I remember the last line of the story, when the computer finished, and the stars were going out. A neat little fable. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- We only pretend to have standards. -- Unknown producer, ABC-TV ------------- From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jul 10 09:16:29 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: FT: BIG HAUL of MAINDEC paper tapes and DEC engineering drawings In-Reply-To: <20010709175207.Z7351@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 05:52:07PM -0500 References: <20010709175207.Z7351@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010710091629.A12339@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 05:52:07PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > Not interested in making a profit, just trying to trade what I've got for > excess hardware or docs someone else might have... The GT40/44 stuff has been spoken for; if anybody else is interested in any of the tapes or print sets below, please let me know. I'd like to get this stuff out to a good home. Bill > Paper Tapes: > ------------ > MAINDEC-11-DZDLB-A-PB 7/23/75 DL11-E ON LINE TEST > MAINDEC-11-DCKB2-A-PB 1/10/73 PDP-11/45 CONSOLE SWITCHES TEST > MAINDEC-11-DCMFA-B-PB 5/11/73 COMBINED MOS (MS-11) & CORE > (MF-11-LP, MALL-P) PARITY TESTS > MAINDEC-11-DZKWA-A-PB 5/10/72 LINE FREQUENCY CLOCK TESTS (looks new) > MAINDEC-11-DZLAB-A-PB 7/1972 LC11/LA30 TERMINAL TESTS (looks new) > MAINDEC-11-DZITA-A-PB 11/12/75 INTERPROCESSOR TEST PROGRAM (looks new) > MAINDEC-11-DZDLD-B-PB 10/27/75 DL11 OVERLAY FOR INTERPROCESSOR TEST PROGRAM > (looks new) > MAINDEC-11-DZDLB-A-PB 10/31/75 DL11-E ON LINE TEST (looks new) > MAINDEC-11-DZDLC-A-PB 10/31/75 DL11-C,D, OR E OFF LINE TEST (looks new) > MAINDEC-11-DCKBC-A-PB 3/15/72 XOR INSTRUCTION > MAINDEC-11-DCKBR-B-PB 8/73 11/40-11/45 CPU PARITY TEST > MAINDEC-11-DLAA-PB 3/30/70 BASIC ADDRESS TEST (UP) > MAINDEC-11-DZMME-B-PB 10/11/72 MEMORY MOVING ONES AND ZEROES TEST > MAINDEC-11-DZMMI-A-PB 5/15/72 RANDAT > MAINDEC-11-DZMMJ-A-B 4/26/72 PDP-11 8K MEMORY SPECIAL > MAINDEC-11-DZQMA-D-PB 8/14/72 MEMORY I/O EXERCISER > MAINDEC-11-DZMMK-A-PB 6/7/72 UP-DOWN ADDRESS TEST > MAINDEC-11-DZDLB-A-PB 11/26/75 DL11-E ON LINE TEST > MAINDEC-11-DZDLC-A-PB 11/26/75 DL11-C,D, & E OFF LINE TEST > MAINDEC-11-DXQLJ-B-PR 1/27/76 DEC/X11 11/70 MONITOR LIBRARY > MAINDEC-11-DXQLA-E1-PR 1/23/76 DEC/X11 MONITOR LIBRARY #1 > MAINDEC-11-DXQLD-I-PR 1/23/76 DEC/X11 COMMUNICATIONS OPTIONS LIBRARY #1 > MAINDEC-11-DXQLE-E-PR 1/27/76 DEC/X11 COMMUNICATIONS OPTIONS LIBRARY #2 > MAINDEC-11-DXQAD-F-PB 1/23/76 DEC/X11 CONFIGURATOR PROGRAM > MAINDEC-11-DXQLB-H-PR 1/23/76 DEC/X11 GENERAL PRODUCTS LIBRARY #1 > MAINDEC-11-DXQLC-H1-PR 1/23/76 DEC/X11 GENERAL PRODUCTS LIBRARY #2 > MAINDEC-11-DXQLF-E-PR 1/23/76 LAB & INDUSTRIAL OPTIONS MODULE LIBRARY #1 > MAINDEC-11-DXQLG-G-PR 1/23/76 LAB & INDUSTRIAL OPTIONS MODULE LIBRARY #2 > MAINDEC-11-DXGLH-G1-PR 1/16/76 DEC/X11 NEW OPTIONS MODULE LIBRARY #1 > > Engineering drawing print sets: > ------------------------------- > FP11-B RK11-D TM-11 PDP-11/45 RK-05 RK-11D LPS-11-S LA30 VT11 DL11 > MF11 LPS-11 G728 BC05P BC05N M7015 RP11-C H223 TU10A LA36 KT11-C MF11-LP > G235 VR14 DR11-C DD11-C -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jul 10 09:29:45 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The problem is, though, the definition of 'refurbishment'. It seems to > cover 'replacement of a component, for reasons other than failure of the > machine' or words to that effect. And thus it does cover 'preventive > maintenance'. > > It is actually arguable if this law applies at all if you're not planning > on reselling the machine. I've certainly never heard of it being applied > to PM on a classic computer (whether used for business or owned by a > collector). > > It makes me wonder if some nutcase will try to apply it to vintage hobbiests....It's scary actually. > > > It is also illegal to sell electronic kits in the UK unless you can state > > > that a correctly-assembled example of the kit meets all current > > > regulations (EMC, low voltage directive, and so on). Heck, the > > > appropriate bit of the government actually told me that I had to be sure > > > > Ok, that's just silly. Do they publicly flog engineers too? :) > > No. There are just very few active electronic engineers in the UK :-(. In > part because the laws seem to be designed to prevent small electronics > companies. Period. > Any idea why that is? Is there any active promotion of things like amateur(sp) radio? > For example, I recently built a custom power supply for an friend. Before > I could legally sell it to him, I had to pay a Chartered Electrical > Engineer to do so safety tests on it. Needless to say it passed (and also > needless to say I'd done the tests myself before I had it officially > tested, just to be sure). Note that this was for a 1-off unit going to a > technically-minded friend. > > And although I am quite capable of doing the tests myself, I am not a > 'competant person' as the term is used in the laws. Which means that if > said PSU had ever caused an injury, the lawyers could have a field day > with me. > > Great, isn't it :-( Geeze. I thought we had our hands full here...my sympathies. Move here, you can build power supplies to your hearts' content. :) [not to mention tinkering without being hung out to dry for it]. g. From elecdata at kcinter.net Tue Jul 10 11:32:04 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 References: Message-ID: <3B4B2E03.2E520BDD@kcinter.net> Hello Gunther Schadow, Check for cracks near the deflection cable for the vertical, and check to see if the high voltage cap this is in the vertical circuit is okay, it maybe defective. I have the schematics at the shop somewhere I'll look if you want and scan as necessary. Bill Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > I got a good deal of a Commodore 1701 monitor on eBay, just that it > > was not well packed and damaged during the USPS trip. Now I have a > > lightly damaged enclosure with everything inside apparently working > > except the horizontal scan. The picture is squeezed into one single > > vertical line in the middle of the screen. So, what's next? > > Call whatever shipping company handled it and ask them what form you need > to fill out to get them to pay for your damaged item :( > > Or contact the seller and tell him it was his fault for not properly > packing it. Probably have better luck with the shipper, but they may balk > because of the poor packaging. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jul 10 09:46:29 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: B+H IRIS boards Message-ID: I recently found some Bell+Howell Iris boards in the dumpster behind a local computer repair place. They are 3 piggyback boards that fit in two PC(?) slots. One board is labeled "CPU" and has socketed TI 34010 Graphics Processor, socketed Bt454KPJ170 chip, a boot EPROM, and two different sets of 32 RAM chips (511000P-10 and D41264V-15). The EPROM is (c) 1986, the boards 1987 and 1988. There is a coax connector off the first board. The second board is labeled "Iris Printer/Scanner" and has a 26 pin header. The third board, which has a SCSI port, is labeled "Iris Decomp". Since these boards are sandwiched close to the first, I cannot see what is on them without taking them apart. I have 4 complete boards and one without the 2 socketed chips. Does anyone want one/more of them? You can have one for the cost of shipping. They weigh just over 2 pounds, so shipping would be $5.00 or a bit more. I gather that they are some sort of scanner interface/processor, but does anyone know more about them? Bob Feldman From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 10 10:02:04 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <006901c10945$059f3d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200107101502.RAA12397@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 10 Jul, John Allain wrote: > I for one wouldn't know what I was looking for in such a test. Measure the resistence of the pins to GND. Get the SCSI pinout from http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/storage/scsiinternal.html and of course you have to hnow that a terminated SCSI pin has a resistence of 100 to 150 Ohms to GND. Now compare your measureing to the pinout and if you get the right resistence on the right pins you can asume it is SCSI. The next step is to connect some SCSI device and play around in the hope that the magic smoke does not escape. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 10 10:17:50 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010710093447.00ac6060@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 08:47 PM 7/9/01 -0700, Eric wrote: > >More to the point, my tax dollars go to pay the unpaid medical bills > >of the stupid, and when too many stupid people get head injuries my car > >and health insurance rates go up. And my tax dollars go towards towards pacifying numbskulls who write things like what Eric just wrote. > Hell, that applies to anything you can name; car crash victums, skate > boarding accidents, people tripping on the side walks, etc etc etc. The > list is endless. Should you let the "hospital costs" rational be used to > govern everything we do? I don't think so. Well said Joe! We do so many things in the course of everyday life that could be considered hazardous, yet, some politicians who, with the help of actuaries, acting to please the bean counters, pass laws based upon sometimes contrived and misleading statistics that further curtail our freedom. I don't recall there being anything in this nation's founding documents stating that our liberty and freedom are supposed to be conditional, based upon economics, yet, that's apparently what's happening. > What if the next law is that > no one will be allowed to work on their own computers since they could be > injured and the public would have to pay the cost of their Surely there is economic greed behind some of these laws. If we repair and preserve older computers, televisions, cars, etc. ourselves, we're not paying certain businesses to do these things. Also, it may mean, as far as the dinosaur-brains of politicians are concerned, that we're not buying new computers and cars, etc., and are hence not doing things which are in the best economic interests of the businesses that our politicians feel are more important than the average tax-abused citizen. If we don't preserve and repair older computers, cars, etc., then, there are, hypothetically, larger profits to be made through the sales of new computers, cars, etc. > hospitalization? Rediculous? Not really. That's the exact rational that > was used to pass the helmets laws to begin with and from what Tony says the There are too many commercial interests, and other special interests, interfering with liberty and freedom. It's not just the insurance companies either. Consider all of the money to be made by the sales of safety helmets, child-safety seats, hand-free components such as microphones and external speakers for mobile phones, etc. > UK isn't far from enacting such non-sensical regulations. ...and if you want to see what sort of things that the world's political cretins (doesn't it appear that most politicians are mentally immature children in adult's bodies?) have developed for use in making people comply with what they want, take a look at the information about "an appraisal of technologies of political control," etc. at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/lillithsrealm/myhomepage/Humanity/HumanRights/STOA/ATPC_TOC.html Be forewarned, what you'll see is not at all pleasant; it's the work of many very sick minds. But then, that just shows what we have running our governments - a bunch of immature, power-craving, control-freaks, megalomaniacs and busy-bodies who are often incapable of rational thought, who, to make things worse, have typically also had their reptilian brains influenced by peer-pressure and religious dogma of one sort or other that doesn't exactly discourage harm to others, which discourages a "live and let live" way of thinking. > want them to. Can you imagine the precedence that it would set? The next > thing you know they'd be dening emergency care for any rediculous reason. Our ever so considerate---of their own best interests---politicians have already passed a law, or laws, that allow insurers to deny coverage to people involved in activities perceived as "risky," such as equestrians, based upon the perceived danger of such activities as horseback riding, and the costs associated with injuries. What's to prevent insurance companies from eventually declining to cover the costs of hospitalization for someone who's been injured by repairing the PSU in a classic computer, or by incorrectly lifting some heavy classic computer bits at home? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Tue Jul 10 10:05:58 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Any IBM S/360 model 30 on this globe (fwd) Message-ID: Reply to original author... -- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:45:59 +0200 From: Henk Stegeman Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Subject: Any IBM S/360 model 30 on this globe Resent-Subject: Any IBM S/360 model 30 on this globe Hi, I have an old IBM S/360 model 30 front panel and I started a project to bring this panel back to live. I wrote an emulator on Linux which emulates S/360 model 30 micro-code instructions. You read this correctly: micro-code instruction, not S/360 instructions. The emulator is now finished and has already executed successfully some micro-code instructions which I copied out of the Field Engineering Theory of Operation Manual (FETOM). I need a complete copy of all the IBM CLD pages to implement the full micro-code set needed for the whole S/360 instruction set. I am now searching for any remaining IBM S/360 models 30 or 22 on this globe (privately or museum). Who can help me ? I know that the Computer Museum at Mountain View and the IBM Museum in Endicott have a model 30 but unfortunately without documentation. Any hint, tips or leads are welcome ! Regards Henk Henk.j.stegeman@is.shell.com From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Tue Jul 10 10:11:36 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D09@BUSH02> > What if there is one or more names of God of infinite length? > Then it wouldn't have been a name that could be known. Which was, ISTR, part of the story. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 10 10:41:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <006901c10945$059f3d80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200107100741.JAA11053@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> At 09:32 AM 7/10/01 -0400, you wrote: >OK I'll bite. Compare & contrast SCSI and Pertec, OHM-ically. >I for one wouldn't know what I was looking for in such a test. >John A. Two connectors vs one :-) Pertec has two 50 headers. I ohm'd it out and it is SCSI, (at least all the right pins are grounded and the data pins are terminated. So I hooked it up to an EX8200 and while it doesn't do anything "wrong" it doesn't do anything. VMS sees the MSA0: show up but it complains it is off line. --Chuck From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 10 10:54:19 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? Message-ID: Um, how are the 8X305 and the PIC related? Totally different companies, and the 8X300 (which the 8X305 is descended from), is older than the original PIC, to the best of my knowledge... PIC = General Instruments, while 8X300 = SMS, later bought by Signetics.. or the 2650 was the SMS chip, at any rate, it was a Signetics chip.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 11:02:17 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20010710160217.27477.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > Two connectors vs one :-) Pertec has two 50 headers. I ohm'd it out and it > is SCSI, (at least all the right pins are grounded and the data pins are > terminated. So I hooked it up to an EX8200 and while it doesn't do anything > "wrong" it doesn't do anything. VMS sees the MSA0: show up but it complains > it is off line. Perhaps it only understands SCSI commands for a particular vendor's tape drive? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Jul 10 11:03:44 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010710093447.00ac6060@mailhost.intellistar.net> from joe at "Jul 10, 2001 09:48:23 am" Message-ID: <200107101603.JAA04577@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > At 08:47 PM 7/9/01 -0700, Eric wrote: > > > > IMHO it's crazy to be on a motorcycle without a helmet, so why not just > > > > abandon the helmet requirement and let Darwin have the last word . . . > > > > > > Because our society and government are built around protecting the > > > stupid. > > > >More to the point, my tax dollars go to pay the unpaid medical bills > >of the stupid, and when too many stupid people get head injuries my car > >and health insurance rates go up. > > Hell, that applies to anything you can name; (1) car crash victums, > (2) skate boarding accidents, (3) people tripping on the side walks, etc > etc etc. (1) Ever wondered why we have seat belt laws? (2) Some places require helmets and pads for skateboarders. (3) The number of people suffering suffering catastrophic injury from tripping on the sidewalk is a substantially lower than the number that would be injured by > > The > list is endless. Should you let the "hospital costs" rational be used to > govern everything we do? Of course not, it should be used only where it makes sense. Your attempt at reductio ad absurdum has failed. > What if the next law is that > no one will be allowed to work on their own computers since they could be > injured and the public would have to pay the cost of their > hospitalization? You'd first need to show that there is substantial cost to the state and the people involved in people working on their own computers. > >If there's an outcry against helmet laws, here's a simple solution. > >Require riders who don't wear helmets to either get additional "no helmet > >inurance," > > That appears to be exactly what the state of Florida has done. So > far it seems to be working. No, it's not what the state of Florida has done. I doubt one of the questions on the insurance application is "do you wear a helmet?" Even if it is, I doubt it gets answered truthfully by those who don't. What the helmetless hoard has done is the get their additional costs transferred to those who are responsible enough to wear helmets. That is the true goal of libertarianism. Libertarians want the freedom to do everything and they want everyone else to pick up the tab for cleaning up their mess. Eric From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 10 11:16:10 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <200107101603.JAA04577@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3B4B2A4A.BA78248E@rain.org> "Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > You'd first need to show that there is substantial cost to the state and the > people involved in people working on their own computers. > No, it's not what the state of Florida has done. I doubt one of the > questions on the insurance application is "do you wear a helmet?" Even if > it is, I doubt it gets answered truthfully by those who don't. What the > helmetless hoard has done is the get their additional costs transferred to > those who are responsible enough to wear helmets. That is the true goal > of libertarianism. Libertarians want the freedom to do everything and > they want everyone else to pick up the tab for cleaning up their mess. You are only looking at the direct costs while totally ignoring the hard to measure indirect costs. The net effect is "form over substance". Care to show some facts behind your last statement? Otherwise, label it as "your opinion". From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 10 11:28:02 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit References: <20010710160217.27477.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B4B2D12.D08CA65C@rain.org> I just acquired (again) a Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit with (manual!)designed to provide 2-axis servo control. It was originally used on a DAC NC drilling machine when I bought it. I sold it to a friend some ten years ago and he is starting to get the drill operational again, didn't need the controller, and gave it to me. It includes a Remex paper tape reader and IIRC, it uses 24 bit serial logic internally. One of the things that makes it kind of neat is that it was built around 1971. Anyone else familar with this unit? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 11:28:46 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010710162846.8471.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Will Jennings wrote: > Um, how are the 8X305 and the PIC related? Totally different companies, and > the 8X300 (which the 8X305 is descended from), is older than the original > PIC, to the best of my knowledge... PIC = General Instruments, while 8X300 = > SMS, later bought by Signetics.. or the 2650 was the SMS chip, at any rate, > it was a Signetics chip.. The PIC is a Harvard Architecture machine (seperate instruction and data busses, typically different widths, as opposed to a Von Neumann architecture machine - code and data on the same bus). I think I remember reading that the 8X300-series is also H.A. I have that recently mentioned DAVONG controller with one on it. Proabably a Western Digital disk controller or two, but I can't recall for certain. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From louis.hannah at btinternet.com Tue Jul 10 19:29:56 2001 From: louis.hannah at btinternet.com (Louis Hannah) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: gonkulator Message-ID: Magnasee mag stripe fluid developer can be bought from Kyros in the usa phone 608 238-3587. The plastic viewer you speak of was made by 3m many years since I seen one so they no longer be in production. Lou Hannah From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 10 11:51:58 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Arthur Clarke once wrote a story about some Tibetan (or > nearby) Buddhist monks using a computer to iterate all > the names of God, so that they could bring the world to > an end. Or maybe it was bradbury, but it seems I recall > Clarke... Clarke. "The Nine Billion Names Of God" I think that it was fiction - some of the stars seem to still be on. > Once good application would be to create an intelligent > filter for the ClassicCmp mailing list, to keep all the > off-topic discussions out of my mailbox. Probably not adequate for the task. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 10 12:26:09 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: TZ85/TK85 Message-ID: <200107101726.f6AHQ9S01929@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have a drive that is identified on the front as a TZ85 and on the top as a TK85-AX. The drive has a non-standard interface one the back. The interface is a high-density 40-pin connector in two rows of 10. Does anyone know what kind of connector is on this drive? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 10 12:35:05 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Need Help with Possible CDC Tape Drive Rescue Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> I have a favor to ask, of anyone who is able and feels inclined to help. There was a CDC 9-track tape drive, said to be a model 696, of the old Cyber mainframe variety. This particular model might even have been used on one of their non-Cyber models, but at eighty bucks, I'd like to have it. But it's in Clinton VA, and I'm in Louisville KY (or thereabouts). Is there a lister near DC who might be willing to pick it up and hold it for, say, up to three years? Responses off-list, preferred, but not required. Thanks, -doug quebbeman From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jul 10 12:35:37 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: Re: QBUS Board ID? (Will Jennings) References: Message-ID: <15179.15593.164745.565044@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 10, Will Jennings wrote: > Um, how are the 8X305 and the PIC related? Totally different companies, and > the 8X300 (which the 8X305 is descended from), is older than the original > PIC, to the best of my knowledge... PIC = General Instruments, while 8X300 = > SMS, later bought by Signetics.. or the 2650 was the SMS chip, at any rate, > it was a Signetics chip.. GI adapted the SMS/Signetics 8x300 for use as a peripheral interface controller (PIC) to augment the poor I/O of its CP1600 processor. GI's IC division was spun off to form Arizona Microchip Technology (sound familiar?) in the mid 80's, producing EPROMs, EEPROMs, and..."PIC" processors. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jul 10 12:37:04 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: Re: QBUS Board ID? (Ethan Dicks) References: <20010710162846.8471.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15179.15680.744704.330051@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 10, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The PIC is a Harvard Architecture machine (seperate instruction and data > busses, typically different widths, as opposed to a Von Neumann architecture > machine - code and data on the same bus). I think I remember reading that > the 8X300-series is also H.A. Yes, they're both Harvard architecture processors, but beyond that, the PIC 16xxx architecture traces its lineage directly back to the 8X300 family. -Dave McGuire From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Tue Jul 10 12:42:02 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Netscape Archive Message-ID: Bill Pechter @classiccmp.org on 07/07/2001 06:52:50 AM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org cc: Subject: Re: Ultrix Netscape? > There has been quite a lot of talk on the NetBSD/pmax list about an elusive > version of Netscape for Ultrix. Has anyone ever seen such a beast? All > indications I get from a Google search is that there never was an Ultrix port, > but people on the list claim otherwise. Any Ultrix gurus around here who know? > There probably was one in the Navigator 0.9 - 1.0 days... It appears, though that there's nothing older than 3.04 on the FTP site anymore... I'll have to check my old CD's and see if there was an Ultrix version. Meanwhile... why not compile mozilla? Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ ftp://archive.netscape.com/pub/navigator (anonymous) has version 3.0. Last summer I was able to grab 2.x from here too. - M.S. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 10 12:52:51 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: TZ85/TK85 In-Reply-To: <200107101726.f6AHQ9S01929@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >I have a drive that is identified on the front as a TZ85 >and on the top as a TK85-AX. The drive has a non-standard >interface one the back. The interface is a high-density >40-pin connector in two rows of 10. > >Does anyone know what kind of connector is on this >drive? >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net How familiar are you with DLT drives? I think in the case of a DLT7000 and DLT4000 drives you've got a board that clips onto the back that makes it a SE or Diff drive. Since a TK85 drive could be either SCSI or DSSI, could it be that it's missing the board that makes it one or the other? NOTE: This is just a WAG, I've not really taken a close enough look a DLT Drive to know for sure. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 10 13:09:47 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: TZ85/TK85 In-Reply-To: <200107101726.f6AHQ9S01929@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710110505.02be5840@209.185.79.193> At 12:26 PM 7/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >I have a drive that is identified on the front as a TZ85 >and on the top as a TK85-AX. The drive has a non-standard >interface one the back. The interface is a high-density >40-pin connector in two rows of 10. > >Does anyone know what kind of connector is on this >drive? This is an example of an early DLT drive (its the one that came after the TK70) it takes CompacTape III carts and does 1.2GB/tape IIRC. The connector goes to a "bridge board", one does SCSI and one of them does DSSI. Yours apparently was hooked up to a SCSI board when installed in a chassis because it calls itself the TZ85, if it had been hooked to a DSSI board it would be called a TF85. They were fairly common in the 4000/xxx series. I think I have a DSSI bridge board somewhere from a drive that had been in one of those. --Chuck From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 10 13:12:40 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit References: <20010710160217.27477.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <3B4B2D12.D08CA65C@rain.org> Message-ID: <001301c1096c$0a2995e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > DAC NC ... Anyone else familar with this By DAC do you mean the GM CAD system? I thought that may have been the first CAD system ever put into production. 1971 sounds a little late, possibly not. John A. From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Tue Jul 10 13:16:06 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! Message-ID: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" @classiccmp.org on 07/09/2001 10:05:47 PM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org cc: Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! Don't be the first to get voted off the mailing list!!!! 1 Million '386 PCs for the last person to get voted off :) ------------------------------------------------ If I'm the second to the last do I get a 286? - M.S. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 10 13:40:21 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <200107101603.JAA04577@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> <3B4B2A4A.BA78248E@rain.org> Message-ID: <001701c1096f$c6771f80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> comments inline Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: Re: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > "Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > > > You'd first need to show that there is substantial cost to the state and the > > of libertarianism. Libertarians want the freedom to do everything and > > they want everyone else to pick up the tab for cleaning up their mess. > It may seem that way, but Libertarians (note that it's capitalized, i.e. the "Party Line") don't want everyone to clean up their mess, but they do want the right to make the mess. I'm not clear on how they propose to get the mess cleaned up, however. The most efficient and effective way to handle this is to find a way to keep them, and everyone else, from making the mess in the first place. That results in helmet laws. Solutions more appealing to the libertarian types probably involve less restriction on headwear. Unfortunately, though libertarianism implies cleaning up one's own mess, there's room for debate about whose mess it really is. Also, the mess made by spilling a helmetless libertarian's brains on the sidewalk are unlikely to be cleaned up by the libertarian. How do we deal with that? > > You are only looking at the direct costs while totally ignoring the hard to > measure indirect costs. The net effect is "form over substance". Care to > show some facts behind your last statement? Otherwise, label it as "your > opinion". > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 10 13:53:20 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710115301.02cc1810@209.185.79.193> At 01:16 PM 7/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >If I'm the second to the last do I get a 286? No you get TWO million 386's --Chuck From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 13:57:33 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Netscape Archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why not compile Mozilla? Because it's big and slow. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > > > > > > Bill Pechter @classiccmp.org on > 07/07/2001 06:52:50 AM > > Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > cc: > > Subject: Re: Ultrix Netscape? > > > > There has been quite a lot of talk on the NetBSD/pmax list about an > elusive > > version of Netscape for Ultrix. Has anyone ever seen such a beast? All > > indications I get from a Google search is that there never was an Ultrix > port, > > but people on the list claim otherwise. Any Ultrix gurus around here who > know? > > > > There probably was one in the Navigator 0.9 - 1.0 days... > It appears, though that there's nothing older than 3.04 on the FTP site > anymore... > > I'll have to check my old CD's and see if there was an Ultrix version. > Meanwhile... why not compile mozilla? > > Bill > --- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ftp://archive.netscape.com/pub/navigator (anonymous) has version 3.0. > Last summer I was able to grab 2.x from here too. > > - M.S. > From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 10 14:00:49 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: TZ85/TK85 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 10, 2001 10:52:51 AM Message-ID: <200107101900.f6AJ0na02571@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I have a drive that is identified on the front as a TZ85 > >and on the top as a TK85-AX. The drive has a non-standard > >interface one the back. The interface is a high-density > >40-pin connector in two rows of 10. > > > >Does anyone know what kind of connector is on this > >drive? > > How familiar are you with DLT drives? I think in the case of a DLT7000 and > DLT4000 drives you've got a board that clips onto the back that makes it a > SE or Diff drive. Since a TK85 drive could be either SCSI or DSSI, could > it be that it's missing the board that makes it one or the other? I'm pretty familiar with DLT drives. I've also got a DLT4000 and have worked with TZ86, TZ87, TZ88, and TZ89 drives. All of them have standard 50-pin SCSI connectors on the main logic board. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 10 14:07:05 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Netscape Archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >There probably was one in the Navigator 0.9 - 1.0 days... >It appears, though that there's nothing older than 3.04 on the FTP site >anymore... > >I'll have to check my old CD's and see if there was an Ultrix version. >Meanwhile... why not compile mozilla? One thought on Mozilla, it would probably be pretty painful to try and run it on a system with a 8-bit display (does it still have a problem with this?), or anything but the fastest MIPS systems (probably even them). Last I looked it was a real resource hog. Still with a version of Netscape as old as Navigator 0.9-1.0, you might be better off with a modernish version of MOSAIC. Then there is always 'lynx', which is the browser I use most under OpenVMS. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From sieler at allegro.com Tue Jul 10 14:14:19 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010710093447.00ac6060@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <200107100347.UAA20583@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3B4AF19B.8661.432E5FC@localhost> Re: > >If there's an outcry against helmet laws, here's a simple solution. > >Require riders who don't wear helmets to either get additional "no helmet > >inurance," > > That appears to be exactly what the state of Florida has done. So > far it seems to be working. The motorcycle riders are now happy since they > don't have to wear hwelmets, the insurance companies are very happy $$$$$$ > and the state isn't caught in the middle any more. FWIW it's rare to see a > rider wearing a helmet around here now and I haven't heard of any cases of > peole being busted for not having insurance. My wife tells me that the availability of organs for transplant declined when helmet laws were implemented here in California. Maybe that means people who need transplants should move to Florida? :) Re: Eric's dumb anti-Libertarian argument. No, Libertarians don't want other people to pay the costs. Ideally, if a Libertarian doesn't wear a helmet, and crashes, and incurs costs, he/she would have agreed that their estate should bear the cost: i.e., personal responsibility! Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From sieler at allegro.com Tue Jul 10 14:17:22 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B4AF252.5525.435B054@localhost> Re: > Clarke. "The Nine Billion Names Of God" > I think that it was fiction - some of the stars seem to still be on. Nope...it really happened. We're just part of a simulation, being run in another universe. :) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 10 13:39:33 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit References: <20010710160217.27477.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> <3B4B2D12.D08CA65C@rain.org> <001301c1096c$0a2995e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B4B4BE5.A981C2CF@rain.org> John Allain wrote: > > > DAC NC ... Anyone else familar with this > > By DAC do you mean the GM CAD system? DAC is a company here in Santa Barbara that makes (made?) NC drills and some other equipment. AFAIK, it has nothing to do with the GM CAD system. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 10 14:35:22 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:34 2005 Subject: TZ85/TK85 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710110505.02be5840@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 10, 2001 11:09:47 AM Message-ID: <200107101935.f6AJZMu02734@narnia.int.dittman.net> > At 12:26 PM 7/10/01 -0500, you wrote: > >I have a drive that is identified on the front as a TZ85 > >and on the top as a TK85-AX. The drive has a non-standard > >interface one the back. The interface is a high-density > >40-pin connector in two rows of 10. > > > >Does anyone know what kind of connector is on this > >drive? > > This is an example of an early DLT drive (its the one that came after the > TK70) it takes CompacTape III carts and does 1.2GB/tape IIRC. > > The connector goes to a "bridge board", one does SCSI and one of them does > DSSI. Yours apparently was hooked up to a SCSI board when installed in a > chassis because it calls itself the TZ85, if it had been hooked to a DSSI > board it would be called a TF85. They were fairly common in the 4000/xxx > series. I think I have a DSSI bridge board somewhere from a drive that had > been in one of those. A DSSI bridge board would work for me. Do you want to sell yours? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From thompson at mail.athenet.net Tue Jul 10 14:42:34 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: TZ85/TK85 In-Reply-To: <200107101900.f6AJ0na02571@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: There were some odd variations in the power plugs in the TZ87. The model intended for use in the warm swap SCSI Storageworks Building Block had a main logic board with a standard 50 pin SCSI connector and a non standard many-pinned power input. In comparison, the tabletop version had a main logic board with the standard 50 pin SCSI connector and a standard four pin D power plug or the 5 pin DSSI. Later DEC badged DLT drives I have seen had both D style and many pinned SBB power inputs on the one main logic board so the unit could be used in either scenario. It made me wonder why they had separate boards in the first place since it seemed to make things needlessly complicated. Paul On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > I'm pretty familiar with DLT drives. I've also got a DLT4000 and have > worked with TZ86, TZ87, TZ88, and TZ89 drives. All of them have standard > 50-pin SCSI connectors on the main logic board. > -- From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 10 15:16:49 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: TZ85/TK85 In-Reply-To: from "Paul Thompson" at Jul 10, 2001 02:42:34 PM Message-ID: <200107102016.f6AKGnv02938@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Later DEC badged DLT drives I have seen had both D style and many pinned > SBB power inputs on the one main logic board so the unit could be used in > either scenario. It made me wonder why they had separate boards in the > first place since it seemed to make things needlessly complicated. My Quantum DLT4000 has both sets of connectors and the loader connectors, although the label says "Standalone Only". -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 10 15:16:58 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <200107102016.WAA12870@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 10 Jul, Chuck McManis wrote: > I hooked it up to an EX8200 [...] > VMS sees the MSA0: show up but it complains it is off line. The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs many quirks in the SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 10 15:49:30 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <200107102016.WAA12870@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote: >The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs many quirks in the >SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or >the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware... I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to EX8200s and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here. One drive is broken, it can't pass its own power on self test. I looked to see if there was anything obvious, when you power it on it goes "clunk-a", pause, "clunk-a", pause, "clunk-a". For about a minute and then the front lights flash. Does anyone want this one for parts or anything? If not I'll toss it. The second one goes "clunk-a, clunk-a, whirr, whirr" :-) and eventually is ready to receive a tape. When hooked to the CQD-223/T it works (slow but it works) and when hooked to the SMS card nothing happens. I've also got a CMS tape controller (looks a lot like the CMD one) and it works with the drive but it won't boot from the drive. I've got one more board to check with this drive to see if it will be usable in one of my VAXen. (I've got two other EX8200's so this one is definitely in the 'spare' category :-) --Chuck From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 10 15:47:46 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <3B4AF252.5525.435B054@localhost> Message-ID: <004901c10981$af17faa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > We're just part of a simulation, being run in another universe. :) There was a movie called "The Thirteenth Floor" made in 1999 that had this as the basis, Computer simulations as all encompassing alternate universes. In case you thought the movie sucked or, further that is doesn't apply to the 10 year rule... It is based on a story "Counterfeit World / Simulachron-3", published in, get this, 1964... and serialized for German TV in 1974 by Fassbinder. Just in case you thought VR was a unique idea. Galouye must've had something going, when you think of what computers were actually doing in 64. John A. From red at bears.org Tue Jul 10 15:58:17 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > lights flash. Does anyone want this one for parts or anything? If not I'll > toss it. Yes, I would like the SCSI interface board from it to convert a differential drive I've got (assuming the one in yours is single-ended). ok r. From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 16:01:41 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: <3B4AF252.5525.435B054@localhost> Message-ID: There's always the theory that the entire universe is a single electron orbiting the nucleus of a greater atom, and that every electron in this universe is a universe unto itself. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Stan Sieler wrote: > Re: > > Clarke. "The Nine Billion Names Of God" > > I think that it was fiction - some of the stars seem to still be on. > > Nope...it really happened. > > We're just part of a simulation, being run in another universe. :) > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 10 16:07:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: >At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote: >>The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs many quirks in the >>SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or >>the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware... > >I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to >EX8200s and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here. I've got an 8200 rebadged as an external Maynard Maynstream 2200HS. I used to use it to backup my Amiga's but only one software package would even deal with the drive. I've yet to find either a Mac or PC backup program that liked the drive, but then again, most recent packages don't support it at all. I bought it for like $30 6-7 years ago and it had a tape stuck in it. Maynard replaced it under warranty and it's seen little use since then due to compatibility problems. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spc at conman.org Tue Jul 10 16:11:21 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: <004901c10981$af17faa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jul 10, 2001 04:47:46 PM Message-ID: <200107102111.RAA31737@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great John Allain once stated: > > > We're just part of a simulation, being run in another universe. :) > > > There was a movie called "The Thirteenth Floor" made in 1999 > that had this as the basis, Computer simulations as all encompassing > alternate universes. In case you thought the movie sucked or, > further that is doesn't apply to the 10 year rule... It is based on > a story "Counterfeit World / Simulachron-3", published in, get this, > 1964... and serialized for German TV in 1974 by Fassbinder. > Just in case you thought VR was a unique idea. And there was a Doctor Who story in the mid-70s (with Tom Baker) about him being stuck in a VR world while the Master tried to kill him (``The Deadly Assasin'' I think is the name of the story). Quite well done actually. -spc (And there was Brainstorm in 1983 ... ) From CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com Tue Jul 10 16:11:37 2001 From: CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com (CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! Message-ID: I got a lot more out of _eXisTenZ_, but maybe that's just because Cronenberg's so talented and disturbing. Something about his biomechanical aesthetic (a la Naked Lunch) and profound uneasiness (a la Videodrome) really turns my crank. -carl "John Allain" To: Sent by: cc: owner-classiccmp@clas Subject: Re: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! siccmp.org 07/10/01 03:47 PM Please respond to classiccmp > We're just part of a simulation, being run in another universe. :) There was a movie called "The Thirteenth Floor" made in 1999 that had this as the basis, Computer simulations as all encompassing alternate universes. In case you thought the movie sucked or, further that is doesn't apply to the 10 year rule... It is based on a story "Counterfeit World / Simulachron-3", published in, get this, 1964... and serialized for German TV in 1974 by Fassbinder. Just in case you thought VR was a unique idea. Galouye must've had something going, when you think of what computers were actually doing in 64. John A. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 10 16:31:29 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: KDA50's available Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710142855.02b1d1a0@209.185.79.193> I have several (at least 3) complete KDA50s with the top connectors available. This is a two board set and lets your Q-bus based machine talk to SDI (aka RAxx series) drives. If anyone on the list wants them let me know, postage will be 3 lbs priority mail (about $6 in the continental US) Any not claimed by Monday 5pm PDT go to Ebay, and those that don't sell go into my VCF West pile. --Chuck From jruschme at mac.com Tue Jul 10 16:39:33 2001 From: jruschme at mac.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: SCSI Ethernet adapters (was: How much is a partial Lisaworth?) In-Reply-To: <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:12:04 -0400 >From: "Michael L. Drew" >Subject: Re: SCSI Ethernet adapters (was: How much is a partial Lisaworth?) > >Hi! >I am not sure that this is the same thing.... > >I have 3 NuvoLink SC boxes. > >They have AUI,BNC and SCSI on the back... Well, they are SCSI-to-Ethernet converters. Though, in terms of drivers, they are totally different. >From what I can see, there are the following families of SCSI-to-Ethernet boxes: Kinetics -> Cabletron Compatible Systems -> NuvoLink SC -> Focus EtherSC Dayna Farallon / Sonic Asante What is somewhat interesting is that if you know the history of some of the companies and how the rest of their product lines changed hands, then there are at least two companies missing: Cayman Systems Shiva For most of the Kinetics products, there are Cayman, Shiva, and Dayna versions. The DaynaPORT SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter, however, has no relationship to the Kinetics one. Personally, I've always wondered if it had an ancestor product at Cayman or Shiva, but have never been able to figure that out. <<>> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 14:59:42 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: <696.591T50T1403915optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 10, 1 02:20:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 863 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/7dc29322/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 14:57:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Navtel RS-232 breakout box In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709210026.00ac9ac0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jul 9, 1 09:08:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1801 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/cd4802b3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 14:49:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Best ways to drive a Tektronix terminal? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010709205205.00ac94f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jul 9, 1 08:58:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 758 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/25c7e3cd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 14:53:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Correct installation of a 2716 eprom In-Reply-To: <200107100105.VAA26385@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Jul 9, 1 09:04:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1532 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/834bf42a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 15:22:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 In-Reply-To: <3B4A79A7.3FDCEBD9@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Jul 9, 1 10:42:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1907 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/fea24870/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 15:38:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710153817.00aac0e0@pop3.xtra.co.nz> from "Jason Kyle" at Jul 10, 1 03:46:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2307 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/54c32e4b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 15:46:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010709222408.02a0d5a0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 9, 1 10:31:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/70da2f61/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 16:14:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010710093447.00ac6060@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jul 10, 1 09:48:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2896 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/25020102/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 15:53:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 9, 1 11:52:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1658 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/ff75ccc9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 16:27:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jul 10, 1 07:29:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/2294dba7/attachment.ksh From thompson at mail.athenet.net Tue Jul 10 16:49:34 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: There were patches released to older versions of AIX and OpenVMS specifically to deal with this tape drive. Newer versions of those OS's should have the changes by default. On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote: > >The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs many quirks in the > >SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or > >the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware... > > I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to EX8200s > and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here. > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 10 16:51:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) References: <200107100347.UAA20583@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> <3B4AF19B.8661.432E5FC@localhost> Message-ID: <002301c1098a$78e9a740$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Sadly, not all libertarians have estates large enough to cover the cost of cleaning up a messed up helmetless head. Does that mean the "STATE" should bear the cost? I think not! Not even a libertarian would agree with that, would they? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Sieler" To: "joe" ; Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 1:14 PM Subject: Re: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > Re: > > >If there's an outcry against helmet laws, here's a simple solution. > > >Require riders who don't wear helmets to either get additional "no helmet > > >inurance," > > > > That appears to be exactly what the state of Florida has done. So > > far it seems to be working. The motorcycle riders are now happy since they > > don't have to wear hwelmets, the insurance companies are very happy $$$$$$ > > and the state isn't caught in the middle any more. FWIW it's rare to see a > > rider wearing a helmet around here now and I haven't heard of any cases of > > peole being busted for not having insurance. > > My wife tells me that the availability of organs for transplant declined > when helmet laws were implemented here in California. Maybe that means > people who need transplants should move to Florida? :) > > Re: Eric's dumb anti-Libertarian argument. No, Libertarians don't want > other people to pay the costs. Ideally, if a Libertarian doesn't wear > a helmet, and crashes, and incurs costs, he/she would have agreed that > their estate should bear the cost: i.e., personal responsibility! > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > > From mbbrutman at yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 16:54:09 2001 From: mbbrutman at yahoo.com (Michael B. Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Reality Series ... Message-ID: <20010710215409.28909.qmail@web4803.mail.yahoo.com> "Who Wants To Own A Meg Of RAM" - Answer 15 questions correctly, starting with "How many bits in an 8-bit word" and work your way up to reciting the last five license plates of cars owned by Seymour Cray. Winners get one megabyte of RAM (8 bit bytes), parity checked, at 120ns in discrete TTL logic. "Survivor: (Slashdor series)" 60 people (mostly men) are subscribed to a mailing list. Except instead of being free form, it has a group moderation feature a-la Slashdot. Instead of getting mod'ed down to -1, you get voted off the list. Who'll be the last poster standing? Immunity challenges are replaced with being marked "insightful" and mod'ed up to 5 on a post, while being able to bash Jon Katz. "Temptation Mailing List" 60 people (same group) are subscribed to a mailing list, and all other access to other computers is cut off. Can they stay on topic with the mailing list, or will they all succumb to their darkest fears? "MSN House" Ooops. This was done already. Too bad WebVan has gone out of business - now they are going to starve to death. "VAXyard Wars" Build a machine capable of running a SETI work unit in 15 hours. You are limited to vintage hardware (pre-1985) for this task. You can use anything you can find in the hardware, including water cooling equipment for overclocking the cranky of VAXes. Oh, and you have to pedal a bicycle that you build yourself to supply the electricity. Hard drives are made out of old tires. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 10 16:55:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <002b01c1098b$148d6740$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've had no trouble getting the EXB-8200's to work on nearly any SCSI interface with Win9x, NT4, DOS, Windows 3.x, various backup packages, and almost anything else, aside from Win9x backup utilities, of which I've NEVER seen even one that works reliably with SCSI-1 devices. Oddly enough, there's no evidence that any of those backup programs use any SCSI-2 features. There are diagnostic and test utilities available from EXABYTE's web site, though I believe there's nothing that doesn't run under DOS. It might be worth a look. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:49 PM Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? > At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote: > >The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs many quirks in the > >SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or > >the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware... > > I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to EX8200s > and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here. > > One drive is broken, it can't pass its own power on self test. I looked to > see if there was anything obvious, when you power it on it goes "clunk-a", > pause, "clunk-a", pause, "clunk-a". For about a minute and then the front > lights flash. Does anyone want this one for parts or anything? If not I'll > toss it. > > The second one goes "clunk-a, clunk-a, whirr, whirr" :-) and eventually is > ready to receive a tape. When hooked to the CQD-223/T it works (slow but it > works) and when hooked to the SMS card nothing happens. I've also got a > CMS tape controller (looks a lot like the CMD one) and it works with the > drive but it won't boot from the drive. > > I've got one more board to check with this drive to see if it will be > usable in one of my VAXen. (I've got two other EX8200's so this one is > definitely in the 'spare' category :-) > > --Chuck > > From hans at vaxbusters.org Tue Jul 10 16:58:12 2001 From: hans at vaxbusters.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: KDA50's available In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710142855.02b1d1a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: Hi Chuck, I'd be very interested in one of the KDA50's. Would you send it to my US address? I'll send you cash for the postage. Thanks, Hans On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I have several (at least 3) complete KDA50s with the top connectors available. > > This is a two board set and lets your Q-bus based machine talk to SDI (aka > RAxx series) drives. If anyone on the list wants them let me know, postage > will be 3 lbs priority mail (about $6 in the continental US) > > Any not claimed by Monday 5pm PDT go to Ebay, and those that don't sell go > into my VCF West pile. > > --Chuck > > > > -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Jul 10 16:55:01 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Best ways to drive a Tektronix terminal? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In my college days we had a Harris S200/7 driving this terminal. We used Fortran and the supplied Plot10 library. I'm fresh out of both of these now so will have to settle for something else driving this critter. I had a stray though about driving this terminal with a Tandy Model 100... ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I don't know of any machine that will drive them other Tektronix > > machines. However there is a Tektronix 4041 for sale on E-bay right > > On the hardware side, these Tektronix vector terminals are standard RS232 > devices, and will link to just about anything. On the software side, they > respond t oa well-documented command set (I must have the info somewhere > if you can't find it on the web). > > I've seen them used with PDP11s and VAXen. I am not sure if they were > driven by a standard library of routines to do things like draw lines, or > whether special software was written for every application which > generated the appropriate characters to send to the terminal. > > I'd be suprised if they weren't used with other minis as well... > > -tony > > From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jul 10 17:00:32 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 References: <3B4B2E03.2E520BDD@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3B4B7B00.49DE7099@aurora.regenstrief.org> bill claussen wrote: > Check for cracks near the deflection cable for the vertical, and check to see if > the high voltage cap this is in the vertical circuit is okay, it maybe defective. > I have the schematics at the shop somewhere I'll look if you want and scan as > necessary. Hi Bill, thanks for you help! Let me ask you, did you really mean "vertical circuit"? My problem seems to be with horizontal deflection since all I see is one vertical line with colors matching the image. Where is that circuit physically located in the box? My box seems to have received a smack on the right side (looking from the rear). There seems to be some separate aggregate on that side. But I can't see anything obviously damaged here. I'd need to focus in more to be able to find something. Eventually I need to measure I guess. Is there anything I could debug without a scope? (I'm now hunting for a scope on ebay, but those go away like crazy and I'm not even going to be sure whether the unit I will receive will work ... I don't want to end up having to repair the scope in order to repair the monitor :-) Yes, if you could scan those schematics, I'd be glad! thanks much! -Gunther > Bill > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > > > I got a good deal of a Commodore 1701 monitor on eBay, just that it > > > was not well packed and damaged during the USPS trip. Now I have a > > > lightly damaged enclosure with everything inside apparently working > > > except the horizontal scan. The picture is squeezed into one single > > > vertical line in the middle of the screen. So, what's next? > > > > Call whatever shipping company handled it and ask them what form you need > > to fill out to get them to pay for your damaged item :( > > > > Or contact the seller and tell him it was his fault for not properly > > packing it. Probably have better luck with the shipper, but they may balk > > because of the poor packaging. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 10 17:02:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <003301c1098b$f7fad6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I once had one of the Maynard devices you mention. It worked VERY reliably, even under Win95 with Seagate Backup Executive. Unfortunately, it is limited in capacity to 5GB per 112 meter tape with software compression. The drive is very slow with software compression, however, as the overhead drops the rate down below the streaming rate of common inexpensive SCSI adapters. Under more or less ideal circumstances, I was able to make the drive stream (under Win9x) across a 10Mb ethernet, which was adequate at the time for backups over the ethernet. When software compression was used on a relatively slow machine, the software compression slowed the transfers down enough that the drive frequently had to stop, rewind, and start again, lowering the transfer rate to well under 100KB/sec. This didn't happen with adapters that used DMA and with machines running faster than 150 MHz. Performance was MUCH better using DOS backup utilities. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:07 PM Subject: Re: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? > >At 10:16 PM 7/10/01 +0200, you wrote: > >>The EXB8200 is a rather strange device. It needs many quirks in the > >>SCSI driver to work. So it may be plain incompatible with the card. Or > >>the card wants a very special drive with a special firmware... > > > >I've noticed this about the 8200. I've got a CMD card that talks to > >EX8200s and so I tried it with two of the drives I have here. > > I've got an 8200 rebadged as an external Maynard Maynstream > 2200HS. I used to use it to backup my Amiga's but only one software > package would even deal with the drive. I've yet to find either a > Mac or PC backup program that liked the drive, but then again, most > recent packages don't support it at all. I bought it for like $30 > 6-7 years ago and it had a tape stuck in it. Maynard replaced it > under warranty and it's seen little use since then due to > compatibility problems. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 10 17:05:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Correct installation of a 2716 eprom References: Message-ID: <003f01c1098c$638f6d60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you tie Vpp to Vcc through a 100-ohm resistor, you'll see that the device uses the Vpp as a supply when it's selected. It will happily pull down that 100-ohm pullup. The device won't work under those circumstances. On later EPROMs, i.e. the CMOS variety, you can use Vpp as an additional chip select if you like. It's quite a common practice. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Correct installation of a 2716 eprom > > > > Another simple question. When a standard single-rail 2716 is installed > > in a computer, what do you do with the Vpp pin? Tie high, low, or > > leave alone? If tying, what, if any value resistor should be used? > > Connect Vpp to Vcc (+5V), with no resistor in series (i.e. a direct wire > connection). That's what I've always done anyway. > > > Is this answer different for masked ROMs or other EPROMS? > > With most EPROMs you link Vpp to +5V in read mode. Mask ROMs obviously > don't have Vpp line, and the pin is normally either unconnected (in which > case you can do what you like with it, within reason [1], including > connecting it to +5V), or sometimes it's another chip enable input. The > latter is often level selectable by an option set by the programming mask > (i.e. when the chip is mask-programmed, as well as the data being > defined, the active level of the chip select lines (active high or active > low) can also be set). Of course if the mask ROM has an active-low enable > pin there, you have to connect it to ground. > > > Is there a standard reference book or site that answers questions like > > this? I don't want to wear out my welcome :-) > > What you need are the data sheets for the EPROM you are using. Most > semiconductor companies put the data sheets of their current parts on the > web in pdf format. Very rarely are obsolete data sheets made available in > this way. > > It's worth obtaing all the old data books that you can find, since they > contain data sheets for the chips found in classic computers :-) > > -tony > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 10 17:09:47 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tony, > > ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController >> ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos > >A few questions.... > >1) What is the URL to get these files from? Here's a URL that lists all the Aminet mirrors: http://www.dtr.fr/homepage/gcornu/aminet_web_sites.html >2) What is ps2m.lha? the microcontroller program? schematics? what? The archives are likely just the directions and/or schematics for doing the conversion. >3) How do I unpack a .lha file on a linux box. Is there any way to get it >as a .zip or .tar.gz file? LHA is the preferred archiving method on Amiga's, or at least it was when I was using them. Other systems, such as the Mac (Stuffit Expander) and LHA under DOS can deal with the Aminet archives but I don't know if there's one for Linux. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jul 10 17:25:22 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > tinkering without being hung out to dry for it]. > > Where is 'here', and how do I move 20 minicomputers and 10 times as many > micros (or so) there... > Whups, sorry. I keep forgetting to not be US-centric. *laughs* 20 minis and 2000 micros...Hmmm... Got a TARDIS handy? :) g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jul 10 17:30:37 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > to provide photographs of the missing items? Come again??? I almost sent > them a blank photograph with the caption 'Here are the missing items. You > can't see them because they are missing'. > I've got to remember this on the chance that some US shipping service does a similar thing. Priceless Tony, just *priceless*. *rofl* g. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 17:09:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Correct installation of a 2716 eprom In-Reply-To: <003f01c1098c$638f6d60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 10, 1 04:05:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 803 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/d232df4c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 17:15:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 In-Reply-To: <3B4B7B00.49DE7099@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Jul 10, 1 05:00:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2084 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/0fbffcd2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 17:17:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jul 10, 1 03:25:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 536 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010710/5599396b/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jul 10 17:29:28 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit In-Reply-To: <3B4B2D12.D08CA65C@rain.org> References: <20010710160217.27477.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010710182756.00ac99c0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:28 AM 7/10/01 -0700, you wrote: >I just acquired (again) a Tektronix 1711 Machine Control Unit with >(manual!)designed to provide 2-axis servo control. It was originally used on >a DAC NC drilling machine when I bought it. I sold it to a friend some ten >years ago and he is starting to get the drill operational again, didn't need >the controller, and gave it to me. It includes a Remex paper tape reader and >IIRC, it uses 24 bit serial logic internally. One of the things that makes >it kind of neat is that it was built around 1971. Anyone else familar with >this unit? I've never heard of it but it sounds interesting. I have access to a large collection of old Tektronix catalogs and can probably find the catalog listings for it if you need them. Joe From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 10 17:50:03 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >No, you've gained an order of magnitude on the micros. I've only got >around 200 (probably less) of those. and to think that some people say that my ~80 or so are too many... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jul 10 18:02:06 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Preserving the right to hack hardware (was: Off Topic... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > tinkering without being hung out to dry for it]. > > > > > > Where is 'here', and how do I move 20 minicomputers and 10 times as many > > > micros (or so) there... > > > > > > > Whups, sorry. I keep forgetting to > > not be US-centric. *laughs* > > Look, if I was in the US, I'd not be moaning about possible UK laws :-) > The sad thing is that bad technology laws have a tendency to breed like rats. I shudder every time I hear of some new absurd law being passed in .au. > > > > 20 minis and 2000 micros...Hmmm... Got a TARDIS handy? :) > > No, you've gained an order of magnitude on the micros. I've only got > around 200 (probably less) of those. Well math never was one of my stronger subjects. :) g. From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 10 17:55:38 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: <003301c1098b$f7fad6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> <003301c1098b$f7fad6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >I once had one of the Maynard devices you mention. It worked VERY reliably, >even under Win95 with Seagate Backup Executive. Unfortunately, it >is limited in >capacity to 5GB per 112 meter tape with software compression. The >drive is very >slow with software compression, however, as the overhead drops the rate down >below the streaming rate of common inexpensive SCSI adapters. When I got it, it's capacity of 2.5gig uncompressed was still a pretty substantial drive, especially compared to the Colorado 120's and 250's that were popular at the time. Not to mention that most people were still trying to break the IDE 540meg barrier. The other reason I bought it was because it was cheap surplus and I decided to take a chance on being able to get it fixed. I did toy with the idea of using it under Win95/98 for a bit but decided that since the OS had to be reinstalled to do a restore anyway that it wasn't worth the hassle. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 17:56:59 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <002301c1098a$78e9a740$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Leave his brains on the road. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Sadly, not all libertarians have estates large enough to cover the cost of > cleaning up a messed up helmetless head. > > Does that mean the "STATE" should bear the cost? I think not! Not even a > libertarian would agree with that, would they? > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stan Sieler" > To: "joe" ; > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > Re: > > > >If there's an outcry against helmet laws, here's a simple solution. > > > >Require riders who don't wear helmets to either get additional "no helmet > > > >inurance," > > > > > > That appears to be exactly what the state of Florida has done. So > > > far it seems to be working. The motorcycle riders are now happy since they > > > don't have to wear hwelmets, the insurance companies are very happy $$$$$$ > > > and the state isn't caught in the middle any more. FWIW it's rare to see a > > > rider wearing a helmet around here now and I haven't heard of any cases of > > > peole being busted for not having insurance. > > > > My wife tells me that the availability of organs for transplant declined > > when helmet laws were implemented here in California. Maybe that means > > people who need transplants should move to Florida? :) > > > > Re: Eric's dumb anti-Libertarian argument. No, Libertarians don't want > > other people to pay the costs. Ideally, if a Libertarian doesn't wear > > a helmet, and crashes, and incurs costs, he/she would have agreed that > > their estate should bear the cost: i.e., personal responsibility! > > > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > > > > > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 18:19:50 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Chassis Hardware Message-ID: Hi. Two questions: First of all, can the mounting platform of the VAXstation 3100 be transplanted into a DECstation 3100? Second, does anyone have any mounting rails for a DECstation 3100? Peace... Sridhar From jpk at jpk.co.nz Tue Jul 10 18:24:55 2001 From: jpk at jpk.co.nz (Jason Kyle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710153817.00aac0e0@pop3.xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010711112022.00a7b360@pop3.xtra.co.nz> Now that you mention it I remember sticking in a buffer IC and replacing the lead, honestly it's not as difficult as you suggest - certainly not as much hassle as building a converter box - a least not for a 1-off anyhow. Jason Kyle At 08:38 11/07/2001, you wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Most mice actually start off with quatrature output position detectors and > >Correct.... From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 18:25:41 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: This is one of those times... Message-ID: ...when they made a MIPS/VMS. Can you make a heterogeneous VMScluster of VAXen and Alphas? Peace... Sridhar From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 10 18:34:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:35 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010711112022.00a7b360@pop3.xtra.co.nz> from "Jason Kyle" at Jul 11, 1 11:24:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 877 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010711/e43e949e/attachment.ksh From r.stek at snet.net Tue Jul 10 18:59:42 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Historically interesting (?) 'scope to anyone offeingr me anything interesting worth under $10 Message-ID: <000f01c1099c$631df3a0$0301a8c0@bob> Dig out your old BYTE magazines and look for an early Circuit Cellar article about X-Y plotting. In it you will find a picture of a Heathkit IO-105 dual-trace 'scope. Well friends, THAT VERY SAME 'scope can be YOURS! This scope was PERSONALLY owned by Steve Ciarcia and became a fixture at the Circuit Cellar (even has a BEAUTIFUL, PROFESSIONALLY CRAFTED Circuit Cellar mylar sticker adorning the case) - and for an extra $5 I think I can get him to autograph it with an engraving tool ANYWHERE YOU WANT ON THE CASE!!! (sorry - seeing that post about DAK making a comeback has obviously done strange things to my brain) All seriousness aside, I got this from Steve, and it is in very good condition with only one small problem - it immediately blows its fuse whenever you turn it on. I loved Heathkits - they were just my speed - I could follow instructions, measure and cut wire, and I could grab the cool end of a soldering iron over 60% of the time. But without a manual and with no formal or informal training in electronics, to me it's just a boat anchor. I was going to toss it, but if anyone wants it, I can A) bring it to VCF East, or B) have it packed and shipped (it's heavy, bulky and obviously at least the tube itself is breakable). Just to make thing things interesting, anyone who can offer me a book, old computer magazine, Infocom CP/M disk or manual, NEC V-20, anything vaguely CP/M or 8080 / Z-80 /S-100 related, it's yours. No takers - its off to SallyAnn or Good Will (with a note attached stating its fuse-blowing propensity). Decision by the judges is final. Offer good only as long as I feel like it. For a list of the winner, send a SASE to: Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Jul 10 19:04:32 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710115301.02cc1810@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: ROFL!!! On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 01:16 PM 7/10/01 -0500, you wrote: > >If I'm the second to the last do I get a 286? > > No you get TWO million 386's > --Chuck > > > > > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jul 10 19:05:42 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: This is one of those times... References: Message-ID: <015701c1099d$3a7758a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Master of all that Sucks" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:55 AM Subject: This is one of those times... > ...when they made a MIPS/VMS. > > Can you make a heterogeneous VMScluster of VAXen and Alphas? Yes, mixed VMS clusters were quite common during the transition era from Vax to Alpha, and there are still a few about. Probably be some more when I finally get hold of an Alpha or two... Cheers Geoff in Oz From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Jul 10 19:10:00 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO Message-ID: I was at an auction today where they had an IBM AS/400 (or AS/200?) mark not included in auction so I didn't bid on it :) If someone was motivated (Will?) they could try and run the owner to ground and see if it was going to be spit out the back end of a lease... Laters, clint PS Who besides me thinks Nascar fixed the Pepsi 400 so one of DEI or Childress racing would win it? From elecdata at kcinter.net Tue Jul 10 19:11:49 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 References: Message-ID: <3B4B99C4.BEF3B8C4@kcinter.net> Chuckling, My post should have read horizontal! I'd be happy to get the scans for you and send to you. Check for cracks around the flyback transformer as well. Now all I have to do is find the manual. It's here but just where is the question. I agree with Tony, you won't need a scope. Bill Tony Duell wrote: > > > Check for cracks near the deflection cable for the vertical, and check to see if > > > the high voltage cap this is in the vertical circuit is okay, it maybe defective. > > > I have the schematics at the shop somewhere I'll look if you want and scan as > > > necessary. > > > > Hi Bill, thanks for you help! Let me ask you, did you really mean "vertical > > circuit"? My problem seems to be with horizontal deflection since all I see > > I would agree. This is a horizontal deflection problem. > > > is one vertical line with colors matching the image. Where is that > > circuit physically located in the box? My box seems to have received a smack > > on the right side (looking from the rear). There seems to be some separate > > Interestingly, the horizontal output circuit in just about every monitor > is on the RHS as seen from the rear. There are a few exceptions to this, > though. The easiest way to find the horizontal output circuit is to find > the flyback transformer (trace the HV cable from the side of the CRT > flare, although if I have to tell you to do that, you probably should be > reading a book on TV operation and repair before you get to work on this > monitor). > > > aggregate on that side. But I can't see anything obviously damaged here. I'd > > need to focus in more to be able to find something. Eventually I need to > > measure I guess. Is there anything I could debug without a scope? > > If the monitor has received a heavy knock, then it's possible that some > large/heavy componnts have either broken their soldered connections to > the PCB, or have pulled the pads away from the PCB and broken the tracks. > Look for that sort of damage. > > Alternatively, the widings on coils, etc may have been broken away from > their solder tags. This sort of damage is easy to repair, normally. > > > > > (I'm now hunting for a scope on ebay, but those go away like crazy and I'm not > > even going to be sure whether the unit I will receive will work ... I don't > > want to end up having to repair the scope in order to repair the monitor :-) > > I don't think you'll need a 'scope for this one... > > -tony From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Jul 10 19:10:56 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Ford EEC-IV Message-ID: Anyone got any info? My car (1990) has one, and I'm curious... Not curious enough to risk killing my car though. Clint From r.stek at snet.net Tue Jul 10 19:29:32 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Interesting new find (and not from Circuit Cellar!) Message-ID: <000401c109a0$8df70cc0$0301a8c0@bob> Tag sale-ing does have its moments. I picked up (after some hard bargaining) from a retired engineer, a Lab-Volt 355 microcomputer trainer. Based around a 6502, it has a hex keypad on the right side of its sloping panel, and another 16-key keypad on the left with keys apparently used to initiate common "faults" by the instructor. Above the keypad is a complete LED display which shows in both binary and digitally the contents of memory, address, stack, accumulator, etc. This is a big heavy sucker. It has parallel, serial, cassette audio I/O, digital I/O, device controller connectors on the rear. It also has expansion slots accessible thru the rear. The former owner says he still has the manuals, but cannot find them at the moment. I did get some info from Lab-Volt, but they are just sales brochures. Any 6502 affectionados out there with some more history on this unit? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com Tue Jul 10 19:30:35 2001 From: healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: This is one of those times... In-Reply-To: from "Master of all that Sucks" at Jul 10, 2001 07:25:41 PM Message-ID: <200107110030.f6B0UZi25185@shell1.aracnet.com> > ...when they made a MIPS/VMS. What are you talking about? There is no such beast. > Can you make a heterogeneous VMScluster of VAXen and Alphas? Yes, you can have a Mixed architecture cluster. One of these days I expect we'll start to see mixed architecture clusters of VAXen, Alphas, and iA64 systems. Zane From marvin at rain.org Tue Jul 10 19:40:58 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Interesting new find (and not from Circuit Cellar!) References: <000401c109a0$8df70cc0$0301a8c0@bob> Message-ID: <3B4BA09A.26F3AFB6@rain.org> Interesting you should mention Lab-Volt. I just picked up one of the four position workstations/benches along with the installed test equipment, etc. with all the student test assemblies. It has four sets of logic trainers, motor experiments, and radio parts along with one set of student manuals. I didn't realize they also made a microcomputer trainer, but now I'll have to dig around and see if I can find one :). Bob Stek wrote: > > Tag sale-ing does have its moments. I picked up (after some hard > bargaining) from a retired engineer, a Lab-Volt 355 microcomputer From optimus at canit.se Tue Jul 10 18:35:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <520.592T250T353411optimus@canit.se> Vintage Computer Festival skrev: >Here's a chap in Bristol, England, with various PC bits to give away. >Please reply to original sender. >Compaq Deskpro 386 (forget how big the hard drive is) >IBM PC-XT >3 Keyboards >2 13" Colour monitors >1 13" Green monitor >386 Twinhead B&W notebook, PSU and mouse >Victor AT B&W Laptop & PSU - twin 720 Kbyte floppies, no hard drive >16-bit Sound card - unused Obviously, the best home for these are down in Africa or other particularly poor homes. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Tue Jul 10 19:11:28 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Netscape Archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <943.592T1400T715229optimus@canit.se> mjsnodgr skrev: >> There has been quite a lot of talk on the NetBSD/pmax list about an >elusive >> version of Netscape for Ultrix. Has anyone ever seen such a beast? All >> indications I get from a Google search is that there never was an Ultrix >port, >> but people on the list claim otherwise. Any Ultrix gurus around here who >know? >There probably was one in the Navigator 0.9 - 1.0 days... >It appears, though that there's nothing older than 3.04 on the FTP site >anymore... >I'll have to check my old CD's and see if there was an Ultrix version. >Meanwhile... why not compile mozilla? Well, first of all because Mozilla sucks (remeber, most DECstations run at 25 MHz, while some run as slow as 12), secondly because it simply doesn't build on NetBSD/pmax. I (and others) would appreciate if you'd look through those CDs. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 10 19:58:03 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Ford EEC-IV Message-ID: <80.cdba480.287cfe9b@aol.com> In a message dated 7/10/01 8:23:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vaxman@qwest.net writes: << Anyone got any info? My car (1990) has one, and I'm curious... Not curious enough to risk killing my car though. >> There is book about using/modifying EEC systems on the market. There's also a yahoo group that talks about the system in detail. tuner23 I think its called. All of this is car related of course. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 10 20:13:11 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >PS Who besides me thinks Nascar fixed the Pepsi 400 so one of >DEI or Childress racing would win it? My wife...I don't see how you'd pay off 42 other drivers/teams to fix the outcome though, not to mention ensure that the fix was never mentioned ever again.... -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spc at conman.org Tue Jul 10 20:32:25 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jul 10, 2001 06:09:47 PM Message-ID: <200107110132.VAA32253@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Jeff Hellige once stated: > > LHA is the preferred archiving method on Amiga's, or at least > it was when I was using them. Other systems, such as the Mac > (Stuffit Expander) and LHA under DOS can deal with the Aminet > archives but I don't know if there's one for Linux. There is. RedHat comes with a package with LHA, UNZip and other compression/decompression utilities. Well, at least through RedHat 6.2. [spc]linus:/home/spc/source/apache-modules>lha LHarc for UNIX V 1.02 Copyright(C) 1989 Y.Tagawa LHx for MSDOS V C2.01 Copyright(C) 1990 H.Yoshizaki LHx(arc) for OSK V 2.01 Modified 1990 Momozou LHa for UNIX V 1.00 Copyright(C) 1992 Masaru Oki usage: lha [-]{axelvudmcp}[qvnfodizg012][w=] archive_file [file...] commands: options: a Add(or replace) to archive q quiet x,e EXtract from archive v verbose l,v List / Verbose List n not execute u Update newer files to archive f force (over write at extract) d Delete from archive t FILES are TEXT file m Move to archive (means 'ad') o use LHarc compatible method (a/u) c re-Construct new archive w= specify extract directory (x/e) p Print to STDOUT from archive d delete FILES after (a/u/c) t Test file CRC in archive i ignore directory path (x/e) z files not compress (a/u) g [Generic] format (for compatibility) 0/1/2 header level (a/u) e TEXT code convert from/to EUC [spc]linus:/home/spc/source/apache-modules> -spc (I have an Amiga so I thought it'd be prudent to install it) From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Jul 10 20:40:08 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010710213715.02041760@mail.njd.concentric.com> I don't know though -- sixth or seventh place with under a yellow flag with six laps to go, then moving up to first within a lap and a half. It just seems a little too storybook for me. -- Tony At 09:13 PM 7/10/2001 -0400, you wrote: >>PS Who besides me thinks Nascar fixed the Pepsi 400 so one of >>DEI or Childress racing would win it? > > My wife...I don't see how you'd pay off 42 other drivers/teams to > fix the outcome though, not to mention ensure that the fix was never > mentioned ever again.... > > >-- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jul 10 20:44:14 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: This is one of those times... In-Reply-To: <200107110030.f6B0UZi25185@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010710214414.009923b0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words: >> ...when they made a MIPS/VMS. > >What are you talking about? There is no such beast. > >> Can you make a heterogeneous VMScluster of VAXen and Alphas? > >Yes, you can have a Mixed architecture cluster. One of these days I expect >we'll start to see mixed architecture clusters of VAXen, Alphas, and iA64 >systems. Except, of course, the VAXen & Alphas would be much, *much* faster... Oh, and instead of iA64, didn't you really mean the *itanic*??? ;-) "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 21:06:25 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The only problem with AS/400s is that the OS licenses are non-transferrable and VERY expensive. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > I was at an auction today where they had an IBM AS/400 (or AS/200?) > mark not included in auction so I didn't bid on it :) > > If someone was motivated (Will?) they could try and run the owner > to ground and see if it was going to be spit out the back end of > a lease... > > Laters, > clint > > PS Who besides me thinks Nascar fixed the Pepsi 400 so one of > DEI or Childress racing would win it? > > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 10 21:09:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: This is one of those times... In-Reply-To: <200107110030.f6B0UZi25185@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > ...when they made a MIPS/VMS. > > What are you talking about? There is no such beast. What I *meant* to write was ...when I wish they made a MIPS/VMS. Peace... Sridhar From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Jul 10 21:23:40 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: <3B491E60.6D30BA7E@greenbelt.com> <3B4942A8.EC83EA35@home.com> Message-ID: <3B4BB8AC.C22FE967@greenbelt.com> Neil Cherry wrote: > Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > Yes Eric, I also use X-10 to control the lights in my house. It is > > > > handled by the small controller that plugs into a wall socket and is > > > > programmed by a Radio Shack Color Computer. It has been chuggig along > > > > for about 30 years. > > > > > > Uhhhh, I think that that would be TWENTY years, unless that was a very > > > early preproduction prototype of the Coco. > > > > Yes, that begs the question: how old is X-10? CoCo's are 20+, but how old is > > X-10? > > > > Eric > > X10 was marketed to Radio Shack in 1978 and the first review of it was > in 1979. So it's a lot closer to 22 years old. Motorola had limited > produced the 6809 in 78/79 (no where near '71). Wasn't this issue > cleared up before? I think Don just missed a digit by one. > Thanks for the explanation. I was pulling Don's leg a little. He really help a lot awhile back with CP/M disks. Eric > > -- > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net > http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) > http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) > http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Jul 10 21:39:10 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B4BBC4D.C12E153B@greenbelt.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were require > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. > You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet. Eric > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "joe" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, > possible humor) > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > > > >Joe, > > > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > > >undersize. > > > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > > this country in the last ten years. > > > > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. > > > > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > > than it is to produce our own. > > > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > > out of hot water. > > > > > > > Drilling in new locations is > > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > > problems. > > > > > > > Something might > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's > > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > > > Joe > > > > From healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com Tue Jul 10 21:47:14 2001 From: healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: This is one of those times... In-Reply-To: from "Master of all that Sucks" at Jul 10, 2001 10:09:45 PM Message-ID: <200107110247.f6B2lEO31409@shell1.aracnet.com> > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > ...when they made a MIPS/VMS. > > > > What are you talking about? There is no such beast. > > What I *meant* to write was > > ...when I wish they made a MIPS/VMS. > > Peace... Sridhar > Ah, now it makes sense, though I'm personally glad they didn't expend resources on such a port. Zane From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Jul 10 22:12:16 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709110608.00a109b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B4BC40F.CF9FE721@greenbelt.com> joe wrote: > At 08:41 AM 7/9/01 -0600, Richard wrote: > >What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were > >require > >to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. > > Dammed Right! I used to live in Roanoke, Virginia during the so > called "energy shortage" in the mid-70s. Roanoke was the headquarters of > the N&W Railroad and is located on their main line between W.Virginia and > the seaports on the east coast of Virginia. EVERYDAY I used to see a > multitude of trains loaded with nothing but coal from W.V. headed to the > seaports to be loaded and hauled to Japan and other countries. This was at > the same time that we couldn't heat our houses or drive our cars due to a > "lack" of coal and oil! Wake up, folks! These "shortages" are nothing > more than the manipulations of the oil industries and other large companies > and are designed to do nothing except increase their profits. Go look up > the statistics for the amount of oil imported during the so called arab oil > embargo of the 70s. It was virtually the same as before the "embargo" but > yet the comsumers were hood-winked into believing that there was a major > shortage and tricked into paying more than double the price for all fuels. > Even the ones that originated in the US. Go look at the amount of oil, gas > or electric power consumed in this country. Has it declined at all in the > last 30 years? No, of course not. The oil and power companies don't want > it to decline, they have to keep up their profits. > > Stop and think about what's going on in this country. The major > companies are screwing the American public on a daily basis and many of the > politicians (particularly the Republicans) are playing right along. The > companies invent these crisis and then use them as a pretext to not only > rob us blind but also to circumvent numerious laws including conspiracy, > anti-trust and enviromental laws. If you have doubts about the willingness > of the politicians to play along with the enrgy companies, go look up the > donor's names and amounts of the contributions to guys like GWB. All of > that data is public record. While you're at it look up his investments in > the oil and other energy related companies. With conficts of interest > like his, we will never develope an alternative to oil and gasoline and we > will never resolve the "energy crisis". Well said Joe! Buit is even deeper than that (i.e. Big Oil and politicians). At one time the oil industry was under investigation for price fixing and the like. There was even anti trust legislation and I'm not talking about Rockefeller and Standard Oil. It started in the 40s was shelved during the war (WW2). It resurfaced in the 50s. When things came to a head, the Supreme Court ruled that oil is a national security mineral (vital). Not only did the investigation go away, but the oil industry was given a lead role in American foriegn policy. They got access to the CIA and the like! The interaction between Big Oil and the intelligence community is quite notorious. Its amazing to watch people like Dick Cheney flow between them. And now as VP his secrets are supposed to be part of the public record. He still has not provided the GAO with the list of members of is enegry task force. Should an industry get access to the vitals of US foreign policy? Eric > > > Ok, I'll get off my soap box now. > > Joe From dan at ekoan.com Tue Jul 10 22:08:54 2001 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Any interest in Data General Aviions or an RS/6000? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710230330.01e89c00@www.rdss.com> I've got a lead on four DG Aviions, CPUs only. They look to be pretty clean but I didn't have much time to check them out and there was no way to test any of them. They appeared to be identical, but I only got to see the back label on one of them, which was an AV 4300. Any interest? Also, at the same place there's an RS/6000 J50. Again, just the CPU box itself and no way of testing anything. If someone is seriously interested, let me know what they might be worth (sight unseen, I know) and I'll go back with an offer to pick 'em up. They're located in Maryland, if shipping or pick-up is an issue. Cheers, Dan From dan at ekoan.com Tue Jul 10 22:21:01 2001 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710231215.01e96ab0@www.rdss.com> It's been nearly a decade since I really dealt with MicroVAXen, but I came across a guy who has the following: MicroVAX 3600 uVAX 1000 RA81 (2) RA90 and some miscellaneous cards, in four cabinets. He got them in as part of a truckload of de-installed equipment and doesn't have any idea what they're worth. I'm at a loss as to what to offer for them, other than (of course) the lowest possible price. Any ideas on the going rate for this type of DEC equipment? He's also got a DEC MicroServer and some VT 510's. The guy was nice enough to give me an RL02K-DC removable disk pack (since he didn't know what it was or what it worked in), so he seems easy to deal with. (The disk pack did not come with the MicroVAX stuff.) Cheers, Dan From jweder at telusplanet.com Tue Jul 10 22:33:54 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.com (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? In-Reply-To: <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Hi all... Buried away in my company's cold storage I some time ago found a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab. I made one inquiry about this earlier, and got a reply telling me it was an interesting find. Sorry but I don't recall the fellow who sent that email. The 8002A was apparently used to develop software and operating systems for 8080 and 6800 based devices. Our company used it to develop the software for RTU's (Remote Terminal Units), which are commonly used in the oil & gas business at remote sites to control and monitor equipment on the site (such as pumps, valves, pressure transmitters). I've gone back out and made a partial list of everything that's included, which follows. I've also asked the boss what he thinks, and he just wants it GONE - that means FREE! So, have a look below and if this intrigues you let me know. The main problem will be shipping, as the total package probably weighs 200 pounds. The equipment is located in central Alberta (yes that IS Canada), so you might want to think twice about the shipping costs. Hardware: Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab - 2 PROM burner sockets on front panel 2 Tektronix Flexible Disc Units - 2 8" floppy drives each 2 Emulator Processors with probes (external black boxes on ribbon cables, & DIP plug) Manuals: 8080A Emulator Processor 8080A Assembler & Editor User's Manual 6800 Emulator Processor 6800 Assembler & Editor User's Manual 3 TekDOS System Reference Booklets Command Reference Cards for various processors Software: NUMEROUS 8" floppies which seem to include... TekDOS Fortran Pascal RTU Development Disks (many) Depending on interest I may run this notice another time or two, to make sure nobody who might be interested misses it.... Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 10 22:41:44 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010710093447.00ac6060@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 08:47 PM 7/9/01 -0700, Eric wrote: > > > > IMHO it's crazy to be on a motorcycle without a helmet, so why not just > > > > abandon the helmet requirement and let Darwin have the last word . . . > > > > > > Because our society and government are built around protecting the > > > stupid. > > > >More to the point, my tax dollars go to pay the unpaid medical bills > >of the stupid, and when too many stupid people get head injuries my car > >and health insurance rates go up. > > Hell, that applies to anything you can name; car crash victums, skate > boarding accidents, people tripping on the side walks, etc etc etc. The > list is endless. Should you let the "hospital costs" rational be used to > govern everything we do? I don't think so. What if the next law is that > no one will be allowed to work on their own computers since they could be > injured and the public would have to pay the cost of their > hospitalization? Rediculous? Not really. That's the exact rational that > was used to pass the helmets laws to begin with and from what Tony says the > UK isn't far from enacting such non-sensical regulations. And if you stop to think about it, that was the basis for the various states class action against the tobacco companies. - don > >If there's an outcry against helmet laws, here's a simple solution. > >Require riders who don't wear helmets to either get additional "no helmet > >inurance," > > That appears to be exactly what the state of Florida has done. So > far it seems to be working. The motorcycle riders are now happy since they > don't have to wear hwelmets, the insurance companies are very happy $$$$$$ > and the state isn't caught in the middle any more. FWIW it's rare to see a > rider wearing a helmet around here now and I haven't heard of any cases of > peole being busted for not having insurance. > > > >or post a $50k bond to cover their additional health costs in > >the case of an accident. Fines for riders not carrying proof of either > >should be set at a sufficient level to cover the cost of care for the > >riders who don't have either. > > > >The other option, and a fine one IMHO, is to deny health care to > >riders who are injured while not wearing a helmet. > > It all sounds fine except for the last part. There's no way that > they're going to deny emergency health care to anyone. Besides I wouldn't > want them to. Can you imagine the precedence that it would set? The next > thing you know they'd be dening emergency care for any rediculous reason. > > Joe > > >Eric > > From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 10 23:49:05 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > >More to the point, my tax dollars go to pay the unpaid medical bills > > >of the stupid, and when too many stupid people get head injuries my car > > >and health insurance rates go up. > > > > Hell, that applies to anything you can name; car crash victums, skate > > boarding accidents, people tripping on the side walks, etc etc etc. The > > list is endless. Should you let the "hospital costs" rational be used to > > Let's not have a smoking/anti-smoking rant, please. I think it's fairly > well accepted now that smoking (tobacco) does harm your health. I also > believe that's _your_ business. Not mine, and not the government's. > > I don't smoke. I do risk my life in other ways, like working on high > voltage equipment. Again, that should be _my_ choice, and not anybody > else's. > > One day, even though I work carefully, (I think) I know how to work > safely on HV stuff, I never work alone, and so on, I might end up getting > a fatal shock. In which case, all I can say (in advance) is that I was > working on the unit because that's what I enjoy doing. The fact I had an > accident was bad luck, but I started out knowing what I was letting > myself in for, I made a mistake, and I paid the price. I don't want this > to happen, of course, but I'd rather die that way than die of old age and > boredom having never worked on anything electronic. Huzzah! I'm with you all the way, Tony. The only thing that bothers me is that looking at all of the laws/programs in the UK now, it is difficult to believe that these are the same folk who defeated the Luftwaffe! - don > > govern everything we do? I don't think so. What if the next law is that > > no one will be allowed to work on their own computers since they could be > > injured and the public would have to pay the cost of their > > hospitalization? Rediculous? Not really. That's the exact rational that > > was used to pass the helmets laws to begin with and from what Tony says the > > UK isn't far from enacting such non-sensical regulations. > > There's been talk on-and-off for the last years in the UK about only > letting qualified [1] people act as service engineers to fix TVs, etc. I > don't think this will apply to people who fix their own stuff (no other > such laws apply in that way in the UK), but it probably would cut off one > of my passtimes -- namely fixing HP calculators for other HPCC members. > > The more serious result of such a law, though, would be that it would be > a lot harder to get service manuals and official spare parts. Which would > then probably cause more dangerous repairs. After all, if you don't know > a particular resistor is 'fusible', and you can't get the right > manufacturer's part anyway, you'd probably stick in a normal resistor. > Which could prove dangerous under fault conditions. Time and again I've > been told I can't have a service manual because of liability reasons. No > amount of pointing out that I am more likely to miss some safety related > point _without_ the service manual has ever worked :-( > > [1] Whatever the necessary qualifications are, a Ph.D. in particle > physics will not be included... > > -tony > > From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 10 23:58:52 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > Leave his brains on the road. Brains? What brains? If he had any he'd have been wearing a helmet! - don > Peace... Sridhar > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Sadly, not all libertarians have estates large enough to cover the cost of > > cleaning up a messed up helmetless head. > > > > Does that mean the "STATE" should bear the cost? I think not! Not even a > > libertarian would agree with that, would they? > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stan Sieler" > > To: "joe" ; > > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 1:14 PM > > Subject: Re: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > > > > > > Re: > > > > >If there's an outcry against helmet laws, here's a simple solution. > > > > >Require riders who don't wear helmets to either get additional "no helmet > > > > >inurance," > > > > > > > > That appears to be exactly what the state of Florida has done. So > > > > far it seems to be working. The motorcycle riders are now happy since they > > > > don't have to wear hwelmets, the insurance companies are very happy $$$$$$ > > > > and the state isn't caught in the middle any more. FWIW it's rare to see a > > > > rider wearing a helmet around here now and I haven't heard of any cases of > > > > peole being busted for not having insurance. > > > > > > My wife tells me that the availability of organs for transplant declined > > > when helmet laws were implemented here in California. Maybe that means > > > people who need transplants should move to Florida? :) > > > > > > Re: Eric's dumb anti-Libertarian argument. No, Libertarians don't want > > > other people to pay the costs. Ideally, if a Libertarian doesn't wear > > > a helmet, and crashes, and incurs costs, he/she would have agreed that > > > their estate should bear the cost: i.e., personal responsibility! > > > > > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > > > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > > > > > > > > > > From tim.mann at compaq.com Wed Jul 11 00:04:15 2001 From: tim.mann at compaq.com (tim.mann@compaq.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Netscape Archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107110504.f6B54Ft91656@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> I looked on the old DEC MIPS workstation that we keep around at work with the software we ran on it back in those days, and it seems we didn't have Netscape for it, just Mosaic. Tim Mann tim.mann@compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA From marvin at rain.org Wed Jul 11 01:35:59 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Atari Lives References: <200107110504.f6B54Ft91656@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: <3B4BF3CF.44B82D4A@rain.org> A friend of mine sent me this URL; an article about the popularity of the Atari 2600. http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/07/09/atari/index.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 11 02:07:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Ford EEC-IV In-Reply-To: <80.cdba480.287cfe9b@aol.com> Message-ID: >yahoo group that talks about the system in detail. tuner23 I think its Tuner23 is just for the 2.3L turbo people, the main list is EECtuner (something like that, and looks fairly active). From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jul 11 02:20:18 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Chassis Hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107110720.JAA15267@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 10 Jul, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > First of all, can the mounting platform of the VAXstation 3100 be > transplanted into a DECstation 3100? Hmm. I can not guarantee that it fits, but is is _very_ likely. > Second, does anyone have any mounting rails for a DECstation 3100? I used normal screws to mount HDs into my DS3100. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jul 11 02:39:59 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Old Mystery solved Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010711003236.01f26eb0@209.185.79.193> A long time ago I posed an interesting mystery to the folks on both the classiccmp and port-vax lists. That mystery was this, "What cable do I need to connect the KA660 in the BA400 cabinet to the DSSI bus?" I asked the question because the KA660, like the KA640, has a DSSI interface on the CPU card. Further that interface comes out to a 50 pin IDC plug that is next to the 50 pin plug for the memory bus (just like the KA640). Further, in the right most slot of the BA400 series chassis with the Q/CD back plane is a board, M9715, that has a high density Honda connector and it plugs into the DSSI backplane. I reasoned that there was a DEC cable that went from the 50 pin IDC connector to the Honda connector and this provided the internal path to the DSSI bus. I discovered later that the CD connectors on the far right of the Q/CD backplane in the BA440 are connected to the DSSI drives, and further that the KA660 routes the DSSI interface there so just plugging it in connected it to the DSSI backplane. And I never figured out what went in the M9715 until now ... DEC Part #17-02704-01 which is a replacement cover plate for the board, and has a DSSI connector on it and a cable that plugs into the Honda connector! This came off an B400X which had the Qbus extension in it and this cover/cable combination allows you to plug into the DSSI chain! Mystery solved! --Chuck From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jul 11 02:50:02 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: QBUS Board ID? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107110750.JAA15318@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 10 Jul, Tony Duell wrote: > Are you sure it's SCSI? Could it be one of the QIC standards (QIC-02 can > look a little like SCSI if you're not careful). It may be to link a QIC > tape drive to a Q-bus system. Ahh, oh yes. QBus/TSV05 to QIC02 sounds very reasonible. Why didn't I had that idea? On QIC02 pins 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 are NC but on SCSI these pins are DB{0,1,2,3,4}. Similar for pins 44, 46, 48, 50. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jul 11 06:51:06 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Interesting new find (and not from Circuit Cellar!) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512F8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Interesting you should mention Lab-Volt. I just picked up one of the four > position workstations/benches along with the installed test equipment, etc. > with all the student test assemblies. It has four sets of logic trainers, > motor experiments, and radio parts along with one set of student manuals. I > didn't realize they also made a microcomputer trainer, but now I'll have to > dig around and see if I can find one :). Our high school science labs had Lab-Volt power supplies at each two-person workstation. Klunky looking but we never had a failure... -dq From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 11 07:28:49 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: <3B4BBC4D.C12E153B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: Isn't Royal Dutch Shell Group still larger than ExxonMobil? Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were require > > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. > > > > You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet. > > Eric > > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "joe" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM > > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, > > possible humor) > > > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > > > > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > > > > > >Joe, > > > > > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > > > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > > > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > > > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > > > >undersize. > > > > > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > > > this country in the last ten years. > > > > > > > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > > > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > > > > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. > > > > > > > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > > > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > > > > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > > > than it is to produce our own. > > > > > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > > > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > > > out of hot water. > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in new locations is > > > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > > > > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > > > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > > > > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > > > > > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > > > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > > > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > > > > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A > > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > > > problems. > > > > > > > > > > Something might > > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > > > > > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > > > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > > > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > > > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's > > > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be > > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something > > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 11 07:35:29 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Chassis Hardware In-Reply-To: <200107110720.JAA15267@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: How did you use normal screws to mount in that single-screw double-slot thing? Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > On 10 Jul, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > First of all, can the mounting platform of the VAXstation 3100 be > > transplanted into a DECstation 3100? > Hmm. I can not guarantee that it fits, but is is _very_ likely. > > > Second, does anyone have any mounting rails for a DECstation 3100? > I used normal screws to mount HDs into my DS3100. > -- > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 11 07:40:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710083936.01cd4e50@209.185.79.193> <5.0.0.25.2.20010710134410.02ac3500@209.185.79.193> <003301c1098b$f7fad6c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <002201c10a06$b7a7e600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've never had to do it, but Backup Executive provides a crash-recovery option that supports restoring the system from scratch, thereby allowing you to skip the reinstall-the-system prologue to doing the restore. A reinstall is indicated after doing that, however, but I've contemplated it and concluded it might, in fact, be worth the trouble. It's possible that current third-party offerings are better than the early stuff I've tried out, but my experience with backup software has been pretty discouraging. After years of using Exabyte drives with Exabyte/Novell "Enterpirz" backup software, which worked as well as one could want, but doesn't handle long file names, I found the Windows-based options wanting. So far, I've not found even one that works every time, and every time really should be read, "twice in a row." Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 4:55 PM Subject: Re: EX8200's ( was Re: QBUS Board ID? > >I once had one of the Maynard devices you mention. It worked VERY reliably, > hassle. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 11 08:25:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B4BBC4D.C12E153B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <007a01c10a0c$fab78120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This matter involves only the US producers, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:39 PM Subject: Re: OT oil shortage > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were require > > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. > > > > You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet. > > Eric > > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "joe" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM > > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, > > possible humor) > > > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > > > > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > > > > > >Joe, > > > > > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > > > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > > > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > > > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > > > >undersize. > > > > > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > > > this country in the last ten years. > > > > > > > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > > > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > > > > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. > > > > > > > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > > > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > > > > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > > > than it is to produce our own. > > > > > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > > > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > > > out of hot water. > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in new locations is > > > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > > > > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > > > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > > > > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > > > > > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > > > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > > > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > > > > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A > > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > > > problems. > > > > > > > > > > Something might > > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > > > > > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > > > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > > > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > > > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's > > > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be > > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something > > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 11 08:47:57 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Historically interesting (?) 'scope to anyone offeingr me anything interesting worth under $10 In-Reply-To: <000f01c1099c$631df3a0$0301a8c0@bob> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084655.00b197d0@pc> At 07:59 PM 7/10/01 -0400, Bob Stek wrote: >(sorry - seeing that post about DAK making a comeback has obviously done >strange things to my brain) And the invention of "eDAKonians" makes my eyes bleed. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 11 08:45:34 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084145.00cdba20@pc> At 03:30 PM 7/10/01 -0700, Gene Buckle wrote: >> to provide photographs of the missing items? Come again??? I almost sent >> them a blank photograph with the caption 'Here are the missing items. You >> can't see them because they are missing'. > >I've got to remember this on the chance that some US shipping service does >a similar thing. Priceless Tony, just *priceless*. *rofl* At the risk of stating the obvious, it's not unusual to photograph something of value for insurance purposes, and of course this has to be done before it is lost. What's wrong with asking if you have any proof that the item was in the box? Perhaps you have the photo, perhaps you don't. Fraud has to be foremost in the mind of anyone receiving and processing claims like this. For that matter, anyone selling or shipping anything must be wary of this, too. If you sold 20 pounds of old computer junk to someone on eBay, and they claimed the box only had 3 pounds in it when it arrived, wouldn't it help to have a picture of the junk in the box before the box was taped for shipment? - John From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Wed Jul 11 08:54:40 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: KDA50's available References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710142855.02b1d1a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B4C5AA0.1B7679B@bellsouth.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > > I have several (at least 3) complete KDA50s with the top connectors available. > > This is a two board set and lets your Q-bus based machine talk to SDI (aka > RAxx series) drives. If anyone on the list wants them let me know, postage > will be 3 lbs priority mail (about $6 in the continental US) > > Any not claimed by Monday 5pm PDT go to Ebay, and those that don't sell go > into my VCF West pile. > > --Chuck Any left? My PDP-11/83 could use one. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jul 11 08:51:17 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: <520.592T250T353411optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084905.00cb9ba0@pc> At 12:35 AM 7/11/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>Compaq Deskpro 386 (forget how big the hard drive is) >>IBM PC-XT >>[...] >Obviously, the best home for these are down in Africa or other particularly >poor homes. And why would they want them? Nothing's worse than being poor, and given something worthless by someone who thinks it'll help you. - John From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jul 11 09:09:40 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:36 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: Message-ID: <3B4C5E24.DC071B9@greenbelt.com> Master of all that Sucks wrote: > Isn't Royal Dutch Shell Group still larger than ExxonMobil? Perhaps, but it would seem that the entire oil industry acts as a single monolithic beast committed to its own survival. Capitalistic, Communistic, Sociallistic or any other 'istic' it still functions the same way. MONEY and POWER. Forget idealistic differences and political opposing viewpoints, that marriage is committed to the same sole purpose. The sun never sets on the Oil Cartel. Eric > > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were require > > > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. > > > > > > > You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet. > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "joe" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM > > > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, > > > possible humor) > > > > > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > > > > > > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > > > > > > > >Joe, > > > > > > > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > > > > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > > > > > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > > > > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > > > > >undersize. > > > > > > > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > > > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in > > > > this country in the last ten years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > > > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > > > > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > > > > > > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > > > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > > > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > > > > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > > > > > > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > > > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > > > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > > > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that > > > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > > > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > > > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > > > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > > > > than it is to produce our own. > > > > > > > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > > > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > > > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > > > > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > > > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > > > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > > > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > > > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > > > > out of hot water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in new locations is > > > > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > > > > > > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > > > > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > > > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > > > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > > > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > > > > > > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with > > > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > > > > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > > > > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > > > > > > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > > > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > > > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > > > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A > > > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > > > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > > > > problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something might > > > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > > > > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > > > > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > > > > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's > > > > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be > > > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something > > > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jul 11 09:12:42 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B4BBC4D.C12E153B@greenbelt.com> <007a01c10a0c$fab78120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B4C5ED9.ED3EC0B9@greenbelt.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > This matter involves only the US producers, though. US producers, as you put it, get their crude all over the world. The term multi-national corp is redundant when speaking of an oil company. Eric > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Chomko" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were > require > > > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. > > > > > > > You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet. > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "joe" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM > > > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, > > > possible humor) > > > > > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > > > > > > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > > > > > > > >Joe, > > > > > > > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > > > > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > > > > > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > > > > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > > > > >undersize. > > > > > > > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > > > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries > in > > > > this country in the last ten years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > > > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > > > > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > > > > > > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > > > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > > > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil > shortage. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > > > > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > > > > > > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > > > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > > > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > > > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason > that > > > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > > > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > > > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle > > > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > > > > than it is to produce our own. > > > > > > > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > > > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > > > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle > > > > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > > > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not > > > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > > > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > > > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run > > > > out of hot water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in new locations is > > > > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > > > > > > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > > > > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > > > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > > > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > > > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > > > > > > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do > with > > > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > > > > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > > > > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > > > > > > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > > > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > > > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > > > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A > > > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > > > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > > > > problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something might > > > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > > > > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > > > > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > > > > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that it's > > > > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't > be > > > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something > > > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jul 11 09:17:51 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: DEC DF108-RM Message-ID: <3B4C600F.B6FA5F3B@greenbelt.com> I found two DEC DF108-RM units. They appear to be a modem pool or communication unit of some sort. What are they worth? IS there any interest in them? I found them at one of my regular haunts. The sticker states "make offer." Let me know if there is any interest. Eric From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jul 11 09:55:06 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: kinda-classiccmp-related Message-ID: <20010711095506.H12339@mrbill.net> I've got a Tek model 453 'scope on the way. Opinions/comments on this model? Anybody got a manual they can photocopy for me? Thanks. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jul 11 09:56:54 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? In-Reply-To: ; from jweder@telusplanet.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:33:54PM -0600 References: <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010711095654.I12339@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:33:54PM -0600, Joel Weder wrote: > Hi all... > Buried away in my company's cold storage I some time ago found a Tektronix > 8002A uProcessor Lab. Speaking of this, anybody recommend a "learn about microprocessors"-type kit? Too bad Heathkit and Radio Shack dont sell such things anymore.. 8-( (its time for me to go from "system-level admin" to "REALLY know about how these things work..") Thanks. bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 11 10:13:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: <3B4BBC4D.C12E153B@greenbelt.com> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711111105.01d24110@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:39 PM 7/10/01 -0400, you wrote: >Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were > require > > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. > > > >You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet. That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current line from the GWB establishment). Joe >Eric > > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "joe" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM > > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be > offensive, > > possible humor) > > > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > > > > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > > > > > >Joe, > > > > > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > > > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > > > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > > > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > > > >undersize. > > > > > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the > refineries in > > > this country in the last ten years. > > > > > > > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > > > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > > > > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil > shortage. > > > > > > > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > > > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > > > > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only > reason that > > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the > middle > > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > > > than it is to produce our own. > > > > > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best > practicle > > > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds > if not > > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've > never run > > > out of hot water. > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in new locations is > > > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > > > > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > > > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > > > > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to > do with > > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > > > > > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > > > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > > > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > > > > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel > systems. A > > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > > > problems. > > > > > > > > > > Something might > > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > > > > > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > > > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > > > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > > > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that > it's > > > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people > won't be > > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till > something > > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 11 10:25:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? In-Reply-To: References: <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711111618.01d251d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi Joel, I'm very interested in Tektronix computers. I never set out to collect them but they just seem to find me. I have a loaded 4051, Tek 31 claculator, several 4041s and an 8170. I picked up an 8002 about a year ago. I didn't have room to keep it or the time to fool with it so I finally gave it to Steve Robertson. I also had some manuals that I had picked up somewhere. I gave them to Steve also. Somewhere I have some Tek DOS disks also and I plan on giving them to Steve when I find them. I don't know if the disks that I have are the right ones for this 8002 and I know that there are manuals that I'm missing so if no one else claims this stuff, I will claim it on Steve's behalf. I'll also take some of the hardware but I won't be able to take it all since it would cost a fortune to ship. (I'm in Orlando, Florida.) Still, between the two of them we should be able to make a complete and operational system. Joe At 09:33 PM 7/10/01 -0600, you wrote: >Hi all... > >Buried away in my company's cold storage I some time ago found a Tektronix >8002A uProcessor Lab. I made one inquiry about this earlier, and got a reply >telling me it was an interesting find. Sorry but I don't recall the fellow >who sent that email. The 8002A was apparently used to develop software and >operating systems for 8080 and 6800 based devices. Our company used it to >develop the software for RTU's (Remote Terminal Units), which are commonly >used in the oil & gas business at remote sites to control and monitor >equipment on the site (such as pumps, valves, pressure transmitters). > >I've gone back out and made a partial list of everything that's included, >which follows. I've also asked the boss what he thinks, and he just wants it >GONE - that means FREE! So, have a look below and if this intrigues you let >me know. The main problem will be shipping, as the total package probably >weighs 200 pounds. The equipment is located in central Alberta (yes that IS >Canada), so you might want to think twice about the shipping costs. > >Hardware: > > Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab > - 2 PROM burner sockets on front panel > >2 Tektronix Flexible Disc Units > - 2 8" floppy drives each > >2 Emulator Processors with probes > (external black boxes on ribbon cables, & DIP plug) > >Manuals: > > 8080A Emulator Processor > 8080A Assembler & Editor User's Manual > > 6800 Emulator Processor > 6800 Assembler & Editor User's Manual > >3 TekDOS System Reference Booklets > > Command Reference Cards for various processors > >Software: > >NUMEROUS 8" floppies which seem to include... > > TekDOS > Fortran > Pascal > RTU Development Disks (many) > >Depending on interest I may run this notice another time or two, to make >sure nobody who might be interested misses it.... > >Joel A. Weder >jweder@telusplanet.net >403-556-4020 From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 11 10:37:33 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711111105.01d24110@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I personally believe that they curtail production intentionally to increase prices. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > > That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter > of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting > it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current > line from the GWB establishment). > > Joe > > > >Eric > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "joe" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM > > > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be > > offensive, > > > possible humor) > > > > > > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass! > > > > > > > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote: > > > > > > > > >Joe, > > > > > > > > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and > > > > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-) > > > > > > > > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had > > > > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or > > > > >undersize. > > > > > > > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been > > > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the > > refineries in > > > > this country in the last ten years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The > > > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without > > > > >appropriate updates on the power system. > > > > > > > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry > > > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California) > > > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil > > shortage. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity. > > > > >It is part of a longer range solution. > > > > > > > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for > > > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple > > > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline. > > > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only > > reason that > > > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a > > > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits! > > > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the > > middle > > > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil > > > > than it is to produce our own. > > > > > > > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they > > > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to > > > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best > > practicle > > > > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars > > > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds > > if not > > > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to > > > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and > > > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've > > never run > > > > out of hot water. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in new locations is > > > > >something a lot of countries are doing. > > > > > > > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and > > > > because it's a huge source of revenue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drilling in the North Sea is > > > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall. > > > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the > > > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it. > > > > > > > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to > > do with > > > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe > > > > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol, > > > > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. > > > > > > > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been > > > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as > > > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has > > > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel > > systems. A > > > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added > > > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other > > > > problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something might > > > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol > > > > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure > > > > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added > > > > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that > > it's > > > > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people > > won't be > > > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till > > something > > > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking! > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 11 10:39:54 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: HP 5036 was Re: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? In-Reply-To: <20010711095654.I12339@mrbill.net> References: <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711113110.01d35be0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:56 AM 7/11/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:33:54PM -0600, Joel Weder wrote: > > Hi all... > > Buried away in my company's cold storage I some time ago found a Tektronix > > 8002A uProcessor Lab. > >Speaking of this, anybody recommend a "learn about microprocessors"-type >kit? Too bad Heathkit and Radio Shack dont sell such things anymore.. 8-( I've used a bunch of different ones and the one that I REALLY like is the HP-5036 MicroProcessor lab. It's better built and organized than any of the others and the course that comes with it is a LOT better. It includes sections that teach how to use logic probes, pulsers, signature analyzers, etc. Th other courses ignore all of that. I could list all of the advantages of the 5036 but that would take a while. However I already a web page about it at It has all the details and lots of pictures. The 5036 isn't cheap, the HP collectors snap them up in a hurry when they show up, but it';s well worth the cost IMO. Joe >(its time for me to go from "system-level admin" to "REALLY know about > how these things work..") > >Thanks. > >bill > >-- >Bill Bradford >mrbill@mrbill.net >Austin, TX From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jul 11 11:22:00 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Chassis Hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107111622.SAA15982@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 11 Jul, Master of all that Sucks wrote: [mounting platform of the VAXstation 3100] > How did you use normal screws to mount in that single-screw double-slot > thing? ??? I only remember that four screw-with-a-rubber-collar slip in mounting. You are talking about the BA42-A enclosure (4" high), not the BA42-B enclosure (6" high)? [disassembling machine stack #3 and taking apart the DS3100] Indeed, there are two single-screw mounting sleds inside (3,5") and one screw-with-a-rubber-collar sled (5,25") with the RX23 floppy. I may messed up this with the interior of the VS3100m76, that is a bit different to the m3[08] or DS3100. Hmmm. Get out your drilling machine and drill holes in the mounting frame where you need them. This is my usual solution to such problems. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Jul 11 11:28:39 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: apple recall Message-ID: <3B4C7EB7.1852C801@kcinter.net> Just found this on a recall of apple power bricks for laptops http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-6475301.html?tag=mn_hd Bill From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jul 11 11:48:57 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Survivor Series! References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371512EE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <3B4AF252.5525.435B054@localhost> <004901c10981$af17faa0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3B4C8379.C6117BB4@internet1.net> I saw that, I liked it. It helped that I found Gretchen Mol or whatever her name is, quite attractive :-) Chad Fernandez John Allain wrote: > > > We're just part of a simulation, being run in another universe. :) > > > There was a movie called "The Thirteenth Floor" made in 1999 From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 11 12:10:40 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: DAK (was: Historically interesting (?) 'scope to anyone offeingr me anything interesting worth under $10 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084655.00b197d0@pc> Message-ID: > >(sorry - seeing that post about DAK making a comeback has obviously done > >strange things to my brain) > And the invention of "eDAKonians" makes my eyes bleed. If you look at the page info, ... www.dak.com and it's subsidiary pages, was put up in June 2000, and ahsn't been changed since. Would that indicate a "false start"? From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 11 12:38:59 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Chassis Hardware In-Reply-To: <200107111622.SAA15982@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: I really don't want to drill holes. You wouldn't happen to have an extra sled, would you? Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > On 11 Jul, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > [mounting platform of the VAXstation 3100] > > How did you use normal screws to mount in that single-screw double-slot > > thing? > ??? I only remember that four screw-with-a-rubber-collar slip in > mounting. > > You are talking about the BA42-A enclosure (4" high), not the BA42-B > enclosure (6" high)? > > [disassembling machine stack #3 and taking apart the DS3100] > Indeed, there are two single-screw mounting sleds inside (3,5") and one > screw-with-a-rubber-collar sled (5,25") with the RX23 floppy. I may > messed up this with the interior of the VS3100m76, that is a bit > different to the m3[08] or DS3100. > > Hmmm. Get out your drilling machine and drill holes in the mounting > frame where you need them. This is my usual solution to such problems. > -- > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 11 12:57:18 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife Message-ID: <200107111757.f6BHvIp08168@narnia.int.dittman.net> My wife has grumbled a bit about my collecting, esp. when I use the loft in our house as a staging area. Most of the stuff is either in the computer room or the garage, but nothing beats being able to spread a system out on the floor and coffee table to either repair or build the system. I've recently decided to limit myself to VAX, PDP-11, and Alpha systems. I'm going to be selling off my CP/M and TRS-80 collection (except for my Cyzern System 7000 and possibly my very rare Norcom clone). When I mentioned this to my wife, I was extremely surprised when she said I should keep the stuff! I guess that's one of the reasons I love her so much; she supports my computing habit (she even bought me my first Alpha). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jul 11 13:23:34 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: <3B4BF3CF.44B82D4A@rain.org> References: <200107110504.f6B54Ft91656@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: >A friend of mine sent me this URL; an article about the popularity of the >Atari 2600. > >http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/07/09/atari/index.html Last I heard the current owners of Atari had been considering changing *their* companies name to Atari as the Atari name is *FAR* better known. Then there is the fact that in Europe you can still aparently buy new TOS based systems. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Jul 11 13:26:47 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? Message-ID: I took the 8002 that I got from Joe (Thanks Joe) and hooked it up to a terminal but couldn't get them to talk to each other. Seems the 8002 has a bad -12V power supply so the comm wouldn't work. I didn't get any further than that so, I'm not sure if there are other problems with the system or not. I removed the PS and it's not that complex so, it should possible to fix it without TOO much work. If I was really inspired, I could probably fix it in a few hours. It's probably something as simple as the Voltage Regulator IC or a fried bypass transistor. Of course, I could substitute another PS but, I'd prefer to keep everything original. Since I don't have the TEKDOS disks or any other software, this project has been really low on my priority list. If those TEKDOS disks are still available, I could certainly use them. Not sure about the disk format. Does any one know if they can be duplicated on another system? The box that I have has a Z80 POD and assembler. The Z80 happens to be my preferred microprocessor and it'd be very cool to have a "real" z80 development system. SteveRob >From: joe >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >CC: Steve Robertson >Subject: Re: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? >Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:25:23 -0400 > >Hi Joel, > > I'm very interested in Tektronix computers. I never set out to collect >them but they just seem to find me. I have a loaded 4051, Tek 31 >claculator, several 4041s and an 8170. I picked up an 8002 about a year >ago. I didn't have room to keep it or the time to fool with it so I >finally gave it to Steve Robertson. I also had some manuals that I had >picked up somewhere. I gave them to Steve also. Somewhere I have some Tek >DOS disks also and I plan on giving them to Steve when I find them. I >don't know if the disks that I have are the right ones for this 8002 and I >know that there are manuals that I'm missing so if no one else claims this >stuff, I will claim it on Steve's behalf. I'll also take some of the >hardware but I won't be able to take it all since it would cost a fortune >to ship. (I'm in Orlando, Florida.) Still, between the two of them we >should be able to make a complete and operational system. > > Joe > >At 09:33 PM 7/10/01 -0600, you wrote: >>Hi all... >> >>Buried away in my company's cold storage I some time ago found a Tektronix >>8002A uProcessor Lab. I made one inquiry about this earlier, and got a >>reply >>telling me it was an interesting find. Sorry but I don't recall the fellow >>who sent that email. The 8002A was apparently used to develop software and >>operating systems for 8080 and 6800 based devices. Our company used it to >>develop the software for RTU's (Remote Terminal Units), which are commonly >>used in the oil & gas business at remote sites to control and monitor >>equipment on the site (such as pumps, valves, pressure transmitters). >> >>I've gone back out and made a partial list of everything that's included, >>which follows. I've also asked the boss what he thinks, and he just wants >>it >>GONE - that means FREE! So, have a look below and if this intrigues you >>let >>me know. The main problem will be shipping, as the total package probably >>weighs 200 pounds. The equipment is located in central Alberta (yes that >>IS >>Canada), so you might want to think twice about the shipping costs. >> >>Hardware: >> >> Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab >> - 2 PROM burner sockets on front panel >> >>2 Tektronix Flexible Disc Units >> - 2 8" floppy drives each >> >>2 Emulator Processors with probes >> (external black boxes on ribbon cables, & DIP plug) >> >>Manuals: >> >> 8080A Emulator Processor >> 8080A Assembler & Editor User's Manual >> >> 6800 Emulator Processor >> 6800 Assembler & Editor User's Manual >> >>3 TekDOS System Reference Booklets >> >> Command Reference Cards for various processors >> >>Software: >> >>NUMEROUS 8" floppies which seem to include... >> >> TekDOS >> Fortran >> Pascal >> RTU Development Disks (many) >> >>Depending on interest I may run this notice another time or two, to make >>sure nobody who might be interested misses it.... >> >>Joel A. Weder >>jweder@telusplanet.net >>403-556-4020 > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jul 11 13:46:36 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010711111105.01d24110@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B4C9F0C.89E4056A@greenbelt.com> joe wrote: > At 10:39 PM 7/10/01 -0400, you wrote: > > >Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were > > require > > > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting. > > > > > > >You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet. > > That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter > of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting > it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current > line from the GWB establishment). > Trust me I don't believe W and his cronies that basically control him -Big Oil. Other than "national security" (and that is arbitrary to say the least) the current admistration would do nothing to assist in the import/export ratio in a manner that would assist the people. More the opposite; his commitment is to those same folks gouging us and their cousin the Military Indistrial Complex. Eric From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 11 13:59:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The current parent company of Atari is Hasbro, the toy manufacturer, so I doubt it. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >A friend of mine sent me this URL; an article about the popularity of the > >Atari 2600. > > > >http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/07/09/atari/index.html > > Last I heard the current owners of Atari had been considering changing > *their* companies name to Atari as the Atari name is *FAR* better known. > > Then there is the fact that in Europe you can still aparently buy new TOS > based systems. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 11 13:13:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: from "Master of all that Sucks" at Jul 10, 1 10:06:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 251 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010711/4e979741/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 11 14:01:00 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084145.00cdba20@pc> from "John Foust" at Jul 11, 1 08:45:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2220 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010711/ca35fe99/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 11 14:15:37 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: DAK (was: Historically interesting (?) 'scope to anyone offeingr me anything interesting worth under $10 In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084655.00b197d0@pc> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711151352.01d2b020@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:10 AM 7/11/01 -0700, you wrote: > > >(sorry - seeing that post about DAK making a comeback has obviously done > > >strange things to my brain) > > And the invention of "eDAKonians" makes my eyes bleed. > >If you look at the page info, ... >www.dak.com and it's subsidiary pages, was put up in June 2000, and ahsn't >been changed since. Would that indicate a "false start"? If you read the web page carefully, you'll see that Drew is helping a bank setup this new DAK. It doesn't sound like it's going to be his company or that he's going to run it. So I doubt it will be as good as the old DAK. :-( Joe From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Jul 11 14:24:52 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: from "Master of all that Sucks" at Jul 11, 01 02:59:45 pm Message-ID: <200107111924.PAA27296@wordstock.com> > > > The current parent company of Atari is Hasbro, the toy manufacturer, so I > doubt it. > Actually, all of Hasbro Interactive (including the Atari name and products) was bought out by infogrames.. Check out the press release: INFOGRAMES ENTERTAINMENT TO ACQUIRE HASBRO INTERACTIVE AND GAMES.COM Read Press Release: 12-06-00 http://www.us.infogrames.com/corporate/press/120600_hasbro.asp Cheers, Bryan From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 11 14:23:12 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711152103.01d2b4d0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Steve, I THINK the TekDOS disks are hard sectored. That would make them a bitch to duplicate or copy on another system. I'll make you a deal: You get busy and fix the power supply and I'll get busy and find the disks. Joe At 02:26 PM 7/11/01 -0400, you wrote: >I took the 8002 that I got from Joe (Thanks Joe) and hooked it up to a >terminal but couldn't get them to talk to each other. Seems the 8002 has a >bad -12V power supply so the comm wouldn't work. I didn't get any further >than that so, I'm not sure if there are other problems with the system or not. > >I removed the PS and it's not that complex so, it should possible to fix >it without TOO much work. If I was really inspired, I could probably fix >it in a few hours. It's probably something as simple as the Voltage >Regulator IC or a fried bypass transistor. Of course, I could substitute >another PS but, I'd prefer to keep everything original. > >Since I don't have the TEKDOS disks or any other software, this project >has been really low on my priority list. If those TEKDOS disks are still >available, I could certainly use them. > >Not sure about the disk format. Does any one know if they can be >duplicated on another system? > >The box that I have has a Z80 POD and assembler. The Z80 happens to be my >preferred microprocessor and it'd be very cool to have a "real" z80 >development system. > >SteveRob > > > > > > >>From: joe >>Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>CC: Steve Robertson >>Subject: Re: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? >>Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:25:23 -0400 >> >>Hi Joel, >> >> I'm very interested in Tektronix computers. I never set out to collect >>them but they just seem to find me. I have a loaded 4051, Tek 31 >>claculator, several 4041s and an 8170. I picked up an 8002 about a year >>ago. I didn't have room to keep it or the time to fool with it so I >>finally gave it to Steve Robertson. I also had some manuals that I had >>picked up somewhere. I gave them to Steve also. Somewhere I have some Tek >>DOS disks also and I plan on giving them to Steve when I find them. I >>don't know if the disks that I have are the right ones for this 8002 and I >>know that there are manuals that I'm missing so if no one else claims this >>stuff, I will claim it on Steve's behalf. I'll also take some of the >>hardware but I won't be able to take it all since it would cost a fortune >>to ship. (I'm in Orlando, Florida.) Still, between the two of them we >>should be able to make a complete and operational system. >> >> Joe >> >>At 09:33 PM 7/10/01 -0600, you wrote: >>>Hi all... >>> >>>Buried away in my company's cold storage I some time ago found a Tektronix >>>8002A uProcessor Lab. I made one inquiry about this earlier, and got a reply >>>telling me it was an interesting find. Sorry but I don't recall the fellow >>>who sent that email. The 8002A was apparently used to develop software and >>>operating systems for 8080 and 6800 based devices. Our company used it to >>>develop the software for RTU's (Remote Terminal Units), which are commonly >>>used in the oil & gas business at remote sites to control and monitor >>>equipment on the site (such as pumps, valves, pressure transmitters). >>> >>>I've gone back out and made a partial list of everything that's included, >>>which follows. I've also asked the boss what he thinks, and he just wants it >>>GONE - that means FREE! So, have a look below and if this intrigues you let >>>me know. The main problem will be shipping, as the total package probably >>>weighs 200 pounds. The equipment is located in central Alberta (yes that IS >>>Canada), so you might want to think twice about the shipping costs. >>> >>>Hardware: >>> >>> Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab >>> - 2 PROM burner sockets on front panel >>> >>>2 Tektronix Flexible Disc Units >>> - 2 8" floppy drives each >>> >>>2 Emulator Processors with probes >>> (external black boxes on ribbon cables, & DIP plug) >>> >>>Manuals: >>> >>> 8080A Emulator Processor >>> 8080A Assembler & Editor User's Manual >>> >>> 6800 Emulator Processor >>> 6800 Assembler & Editor User's Manual >>> >>>3 TekDOS System Reference Booklets >>> >>> Command Reference Cards for various processors >>> >>>Software: >>> >>>NUMEROUS 8" floppies which seem to include... >>> >>> TekDOS >>> Fortran >>> Pascal >>> RTU Development Disks (many) >>> >>>Depending on interest I may run this notice another time or two, to make >>>sure nobody who might be interested misses it.... >>> >>>Joel A. Weder >>>jweder@telusplanet.net >>>403-556-4020 > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 11 14:24:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: <3B4C9F0C.89E4056A@greenbelt.com> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010711111105.01d24110@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711152343.01d3aec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:46 PM 7/11/01 -0400, you wrote: >joe wrote: > > > At 10:39 PM 7/10/01 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were > > > require > > > > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop > exporting. > > > > > > > > > >You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole > planet. > > > > That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter > > of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting > > it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current > > line from the GWB establishment). > > > >Trust me I don't believe W and his cronies that basically control him -Big >Oil. No, more likely Big Oil controls him! Joe From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 11 14:40:53 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Atari Lives References: <200107110504.f6B54Ft91656@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: <002c01c10a41$660f1120$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >... as the Atari name is *FAR* better known. Now? When Atari was at its peak it seemed like there were dozens of knock-offs (Otari, Atasi, etc.) Recently at a PeeCee fair I saw i a P5 fan in box with the box clearly marked Atari. Grey market certainly. John A. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 11 14:47:52 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <3B4B2A4A.BA78248E@rain.org> References: <200107101603.JAA04577@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711154421.01d2a420@mailhost.intellistar.net> >"Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > > > You'd first need to show that there is substantial cost to the state > and the > > people involved in people working on their own computers. > > > No, it's not what the state of Florida has done. I doubt one of the > > questions on the insurance application is "do you wear a helmet?" Even if > > it is, I doubt it gets answered truthfully by those who don't. I doubt the insurance companies are that stupid! Don't you think that when someone that has never had motorcyle insurance suddenly comes in to buy it that they will know what's going on? I expect they price ALL cycle insurnace on the assumption that the rider isn't going to wear a helmet. Joe From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 11 14:59:57 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think that was Mainframes. These are mini's. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > The only problem with AS/400s is that the OS licenses are > > non-transferrable and VERY expensive. > > Are these the machines that contain a vibration switch so they can tell > if they've been moved? and if so, the license becomes invalid? > > -tony > From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Jul 11 15:15:30 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO References: Message-ID: <3B4CB3E2.55C71773@idirect.com> >Tony Duell wrote: > Are these the machines that contain a vibration switch so they can tell > if they've been moved? and if so, the license becomes invalid? Jerome Fine replies: What ever the IBM systems were that contained that feature, did that mean that the original legal user could also not move his system into another room? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jul 11 15:21:16 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: SPAM - Ancient Mac stuff FS Message-ID: <3B4CB535.644A39C3@eoni.com> I'm still sitting on a pile of vintage machines (wife continues to say the "sea of beige" has to go! Two boxed up and ready to go ain't enough): Keyboards, cables and rodents included with the following if you desire. (5) IIsi 5/80 (might even be a 9/80 in the pile...) $10ea. (2) Plus $10ea. $30 with correct 20-40mb external (no scsi cable included though.) 512K $25 (in negotiation) LC $10 (2) LC III $15ea. IIci $15 IIcx $10 LC 520 $45 IIfx w/ 25Mhz Rocket and fast scsi daughtercard, 8*24GC $50 C650 (stock with Q650 specs 33Mhz & math. go figure...) $25 Esoterica: Apple Personal Modem (1400 baud) Period accessory for IIe/c/128/512/Plus collectors. $10 Apple Adjustable Keyboard (complete but non-functional) $5 128/512/Plus 10-key keypad $5 Localtalk tranceivers $5/pr. Imagewriter $10 12" monitors $20 Bernoulli Transportable 90 with 4 disks (Has some interesting s/w on a couple of them) $45 A bunch of HP plotter pens of various types and colors $50 gets the FULL 12" x 16" x 7" box I also have a few ethernet cards for vintage Macs if anyone is looking. All are used/tested. They fit: (2) IIsi (1) SE/30 (1) LC III $15 ea All prices are exclusive of shipping. I prefer USPS but since you'll be paying the freight, you get to choose. Jim From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 11 15:24:45 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage Message-ID: Perhaps the most entertaining thing is where the US imports the majority of its imported petroleum from: Canada. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 11 15:27:31 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO Message-ID: To the best of my knowledge, no IBM machine has *ever* contained such a feature.. I've worked with RS/6000's, System/36's, AS/400's, and a 4381, and none contain such a feature... Hell the AS/400's had been kicked out the backdoor of the building into the parking lot, and they work fine.. so file that under urban legend... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 11 15:38:01 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: SPAM - Ancient Mac stuff FS In-Reply-To: <3B4CB535.644A39C3@eoni.com> Message-ID: <20010711203801.94295.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Arnott wrote: > > I'm still sitting on a pile of vintage machines... > Esoterica: > > Apple Personal Modem (1400 baud) Period accessory for IIe/c/128/512/Plus > collectors. $10 1400 baud? I take it you mean 1200, not 14400? > Localtalk tranceivers $5/pr. How many? What connectors (DIN-8 vs DE-9)? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 11 15:57:04 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711154421.01d2a420@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > I doubt the insurance companies are that stupid! Don't you > think that when someone that has never had motorcyle insurance > suddenly comes in to buy it that they will know what's going on? I > expect they price ALL cycle insurnace on the assumption that the > rider isn't going to wear a helmet. Furthermore, there are other parts of the body that bikers can injure in an accident, which may cost as much to treat as a head injury. The reality of all this is that someone with political connections is making money off of the forced purchases of helmets. As I mentioned before, the concepts of freedom and liberty that we're supposed to have in this country are not supposed to be conditional upon the economic cost of such freedoms to certain businesses and to taxpayers forced to pay for socialized medicine. Such things are only costly to taxpayers because politicians decided to force the taxpayers to pay for the medical costs of treating others. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Gary.Messick at itt.com Wed Jul 11 15:43:06 2001 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Ford EEC-IV Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD702A23AFD@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> I worked at Ford designing the software for the test-stand that tested the modules 10 years or so ago. Whadya want to know? Gary > Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:10:56 -0600 (MDT) > From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" > Subject: Ford EEC-IV > Anyone got any info? My car (1990) has one, and I'm curious... Not > curious enough to risk killing my car though. > Clint From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jul 11 16:04:19 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: SPAM - Ancient Mac stuff FS References: <20010711203801.94295.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B4CBF4B.5C21583D@eoni.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Jim Arnott wrote: > > > > I'm still sitting on a pile of vintage machines... > > Esoterica: > > > > Apple Personal Modem (1400 baud) Period accessory for IIe/c/128/512/Plus > > collectors. $10 > > 1400 baud? I take it you mean 1200, not 14400? > > > Localtalk tranceivers $5/pr. > > How many? What connectors (DIN-8 vs DE-9)? > > Din-8 x RJ-11 (5) pairs Modem - The info that I've been able to find says one four zero zero baud. (I'd never heard of it either...) Jim From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 11 16:19:02 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Historically interesting (?) 'scope to anyone offeingr me anything interesting worth under $10 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084655.00b197d0@pc> References: <000f01c1099c$631df3a0$0301a8c0@bob> Message-ID: >At 07:59 PM 7/10/01 -0400, Bob Stek wrote: >>(sorry - seeing that post about DAK making a comeback has obviously done >>strange things to my brain) > >And the invention of "eDAKonians" makes my eyes bleed. The web site though looks dead for at least a year, full of summer 2000 whats going to happen stuff. From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed Jul 11 16:27:23 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Anyone with info on Cipher C8803 tape drives? Message-ID: <3B4C624B.11253.132DA207@localhost> Hi, I acquired Chad Fernandez's Cipher C8803 tape drive (and with it a lifetime supply of foam peanuts). (Thanks, Chad! Got the drive, the QBus adapter is on its way.) Does anyone have documentation and/or cabling and interface info (physical and/or software) for this drive? Or know of a scanned or other online reference for it? From what I read, Seagate ate Connor ate Archive ate Cipher and there's nothing left. Cipher Tape drive (open reel streamer) Model C880340-96-15250 Part Number 961210-001 Option B Thanks, Brian From pete at suba.com Wed Jul 11 17:48:58 2001 From: pete at suba.com (Peter Zelchenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Plato terminal Message-ID: This is two years late, but the terminal the original poster describes sounds like an IST (model 1), a CRT-based CDC product, vintage about 1978. There was a later edition called the IST-II, also CDC. It had two 8" drives and a Z-80 CPU, as well as connectivity to CDC PLATO mainframe systems, either by dialup modem (1200 bps) or multiplexer. The IST is not the oldest PLATO terminal, but it is the oldest that CDC manufactured, I suspect. Even my PLATO IV (Magnavox, 1971) is not the oldest, but only the first mass-produced machine. The earliest ones date to about 1961 and there are probably only two or three still in existence, if we're lucky enough to have that many. A precursor to these would be Norman Crowder's Auto-Tutor, vintage about 1958, which has characteristics very similar to the PLATO terminals (though it is not a computer terminal, it operates on filmstrip media), and PLATO's mechanisms are said to have been influenced by this machine. Peter Zelchenko (pete@suba.com) Chicago, Illinois From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 11 16:35:53 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711111105.01d24110@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3B4BBC4D.C12E153B@greenbelt.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20010706202839.00aa6dd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20010709084311.00a1eec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <002401c10885$44a01920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter >of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting >it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current >line from the GWB establishment). The USA serves as a buffer to stabilize energy prices, and prevent the casual use of oil supply as a political tool. Isreal and Japan get a LOT of protection from this, and I suspect at least some quid pro quo exists. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 11 16:43:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: apple recall In-Reply-To: <3B4C7EB7.1852C801@kcinter.net> Message-ID: >Just found this on a recall of apple power bricks for laptops >http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-6475301.html?tag=mn_hd > >Bill The recall, issued Friday, affects cords for the PowerBook G3 notebooks shipped from May 1998 until March 2000, but not those used for the iBook consumer laptops or the newer Titanium PowerBook G4. Apple is providing a free replacement power adapter. Recall uses the serial number of the G3, nothing apparently on the adapter needed. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 11 17:05:49 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Ford EEC-IV In-Reply-To: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD702A23AFD@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> Message-ID: >I worked at Ford designing the software for the test-stand that tested the >modules 10 years or so ago. Whadya want to know? How about a decoded table of all the eprom values? ;) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 11 16:55:43 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107111757.f6BHvIp08168@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >I guess that's one of the reasons I love her so >much; she supports my computing habit (she even >bought me my first Alpha). OTOH my wife says if I get the computers out of the livingroom soon she won't kill me and scatter my bones in the desert. Thats love. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 11 16:31:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <20010711095654.I12339@mrbill.net> References: ; from jweder@telusplanet.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:33:54PM -0600 <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >Speaking of this, anybody recommend a "learn about microprocessors"-type >kit? Too bad Heathkit and Radio Shack dont sell such things anymore.. 8-( Try an Apple IIe. Its simple enough you can look at the motherboard and see each major part, how its connected, etc. Get a decent intro assembly language on the Apple II book, and start having fun. From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 14:24:35 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01Jul11.181819edt.119082@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> on 7/11/01 2:23 PM, Zane H. Healy at healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Then there is the fact that in Europe you can still aparently buy new TOS > based systems. Is C-Labs still manufacturing the Falcon or is this possibly one of the other TOS machines, such as the Haides? I could have the name spelled wrong there. Jeff From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 11 17:29:41 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 11, 2001 02:55:43 PM Message-ID: <200107112229.f6BMTfF09155@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I guess that's one of the reasons I love her so > >much; she supports my computing habit (she even > >bought me my first Alpha). > > OTOH my wife says if I get the computers out of the livingroom soon she > won't kill me and scatter my bones in the desert. Thats love. If I tried to keep any of the computers in the living room, dining room, or any place else downstairs my life would be in jeopardy. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Jul 11 17:32:15 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike Ford wrote: > OTOH my wife says if I get the computers out of the livingroom soon she > won't kill me and scatter my bones in the desert. Thats love. Mine decided that we needed to buy an airplane. This has since been revealed to have been a ploy to replace my hobby of collecting large, heavy items that clutter up the house and garage with a single large, heavy, item that clutters up the hangar. Fortunately, I've been able to see through her nefarious plan and am now planning a larger hanger which will accommodate both the aircraft and the machines. That'll teach her; I'll have three phase power, all of my machines in one place, none in the house and -- hey, wait a minute... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rod.young at sk.sympatico.ca Wed Jul 11 17:29:21 2001 From: rod.young at sk.sympatico.ca (R.Y.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:37 2005 Subject: KDA50's available References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710142855.02b1d1a0@209.185.79.193> <3B4C5AA0.1B7679B@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <3B4CD340.CCE67E8E@sk.sympatico.ca> any left? my 11/73 could use one! rod Doug Carman wrote: > Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > I have several (at least 3) complete KDA50s with the top connectors available. > > > > This is a two board set and lets your Q-bus based machine talk to SDI (aka > > RAxx series) drives. If anyone on the list wants them let me know, postage > > will be 3 lbs priority mail (about $6 in the continental US) > > > > Any not claimed by Monday 5pm PDT go to Ebay, and those that don't sell go > > into my VCF West pile. > > > > --Chuck > > Any left? My PDP-11/83 could use one. > > -- > Doug Carman > pdp11@bellsouth.net From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jul 11 17:52:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: from Chris Kennedy at "Jul 11, 1 03:32:15 pm" Message-ID: <200107112252.PAA11308@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > OTOH my wife says if I get the computers out of the livingroom soon she > > won't kill me and scatter my bones in the desert. Thats love. > > Mine decided that we needed to buy an airplane. I knew there was a reason I wasn't married. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Too much of a good thing is wonderful. -- Mae West ------------------------- From philpem at bigfoot.com Wed Jul 11 18:09:53 2001 From: philpem at bigfoot.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: WTD: NEC D4164 DRAMs (CERDIP, with brass cover) Message-ID: <012001c10a5e$98d84b40$7e0e7ad5@phoenix> Hi, I've just seen an article on using a NEC D4164 dynamic RAM as a quick and dirty image sensor - I'm specifically after the version that had a brass cover. Prices negotiable. I'm after five or more of the little buggers (two to practise removal tactics on, the rest to modify and hook up to different computers). Alternatively, if someone's got a Micron IS32 going spare, I'd be happy to take it off their hands :-) Thanks. -- Phil. philpem@bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/ From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Wed Jul 11 18:11:08 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: apple recall Message-ID: <47382085@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Mike Ford wrote: Recall uses the serial number of the G3, nothing apparently on the adapter needed. --- end of quote --- Actually, it asks for the adapter serial number after it checks your G3 serial number. They say to send back the old one in the prepaid envelope...will they send thugs to beat me up if I keep both? ;) -- MB From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 11 18:18:40 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: from "Chris Kennedy" at Jul 11, 2001 03:32:15 PM Message-ID: <200107112318.f6BNIe609512@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Mine decided that we needed to buy an airplane. This has since been > revealed to have been a ploy to replace my hobby of collecting large, > heavy items that clutter up the house and garage with a single large, > heavy, item that clutters up the hangar. Fortunately, I've been able > to see through her nefarious plan and am now planning a larger hanger > which will accommodate both the aircraft and the machines. That'll teach > her; I'll have three phase power, all of my machines in one place, none > in the house and -- hey, wait a minute... I'd love to be able to buy an airplane, but I'd have to move or rent a hanger. That's just a cost I don't need. I also would have to get my pilot's license. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 11 18:31:54 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710231215.01e96ab0@www.rdss.com> Message-ID: <00f101c10a61$ac1ef520$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > MicroVAX 3600 > uVAX 1000 > RA81 (2) > RA90 >From personal experience I would say $50 is too little and $250 is too much, tho I've never heard of a uVAX 1000. Next commentator? John A. From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 11 18:39:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: helmet laws References: <200107101603.JAA04577@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> <5.1.0.14.1.20010711154421.01d2a420@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <005b01c10a62$bd8a1320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> More precisely, what they'll do is charge rates as though all motorcyclists fail to wear the headgear, then refuse to pay if someone who claimed he wears one doesn't happen to have it on when they dump their brain out on the sidewalk. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 1:47 PM Subject: Re: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration) > > >"Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > > > > > You'd first need to show that there is substantial cost to the state > > and the > > > people involved in people working on their own computers. > > > > > No, it's not what the state of Florida has done. I doubt one of the > > > questions on the insurance application is "do you wear a helmet?" Even if > > > it is, I doubt it gets answered truthfully by those who don't. > > I doubt the insurance companies are that stupid! Don't you think > that when someone that has never had motorcyle insurance suddenly comes in > to buy it that they will know what's going on? I expect they price ALL > cycle insurnace on the assumption that the rider isn't going to wear a helmet. > > Joe > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Jul 11 18:42:02 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 02:55:43PM -0700 References: <200107111757.f6BHvIp08168@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010711184202.Z1767@mrbill.net> On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 02:55:43PM -0700, Mike Ford wrote: > OTOH my wife says if I get the computers out of the livingroom soon she > won't kill me and scatter my bones in the desert. Thats love. i think the best for me was when I got a call from my now-wife then- fiancee. 'I think you better come home for lunch.' Got home, found that my Sun 4/690MP had arrived (full 56" data center cabinet on caster wheels). She sat in front of it in the garage ( which is carpeted and has paneling, made out into a workshop) on the floor. Her response: "When you said it was about the size of a fridge, i thought you meant *dorm fridge*" She's never *not* let me get a piece of hardware, though. I cant complain. She *does* want a BeBox, and keeps griping at me for stupidly trading mine off about a week after we met in 1998. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 19:06:21 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, I don't think a movement switch would be needed with mainframe's given that they aren't likely to be moved without a great deal of disassembly. The AS/400 comes in a numbef of different sizes (our AS/400 is pretty small while our AS/400e is roughly 3-4 times it's size). I've heard mention before concerning such a switch with them though. If that's the case, and I were stuck with one, it'd definately be time to find another OS to run on the thing! It would seem plenty of surplus AS/400's may be headed to the scrap heap because nobody can afford the licensing....that ranks up there with MS and thier new subscription-only software ideas... Jeff >I think that was Mainframes. These are mini's. > >Peace... Sridhar > >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> > >> > The only problem with AS/400s is that the OS licenses are >> > non-transferrable and VERY expensive. >> >> Are these the machines that contain a vibration switch so they can tell >> if they've been moved? and if so, the license becomes invalid? >> >> -tony >> -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 19:12:09 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107112229.f6BMTfF09155@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200107112229.f6BMTfF09155@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >If I tried to keep any of the computers in the living room, >dining room, or any place else downstairs my life would be >in jeopardy. I occasionally keep a machine set up on our kitchen table for days on end but that's about the extent of mine migrating to other parts of the apartment. In retaliation, my wife collects various Barbie dolls and has 3 full display cases of the things... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com Wed Jul 11 19:28:25 2001 From: healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: from "John Allain" at Jul 11, 2001 07:31:54 PM Message-ID: <200107120028.f6C0SPH20084@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > MicroVAX 3600 > > uVAX 1000 > > RA81 (2) > > RA90 > > >From personal experience I would say $50 is too little > and $250 is too much, tho I've never heard of a > uVAX 1000. Next commentator? > > John A. > > I'd say $100 max. In some ways he should be paying you to remove the RA81's! As for the uVAX 1000, a couple thoughts come to mind... One is an Infoserver 1000 (which definitly exists) the other, scratching around in the back of my mind, is some model of VAXft (which probably doesn't exist). One thing to remember is that there are a couple oddball models you don't ever hear about, however, I've never heard of a uVAX 1000. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 19:28:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Amiga Toaster sightings.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On a tip from a coworker, I took a small drive during my lunch to little camera shop. The guy has quite a bit of used stuff in there, along with the new. He had two Amiga 2000's on hand, complete with monitors, one of which was a Video Toaster setup! The Toaster setup included all kinds of manuals and such but unfortunately he wanted $1300 for it! Too bad the other 2000 wasn't priced any better at $300. My coworker had told me about the Toaster, missing the final digit in the price so I went to check out this guy that was selling a Toaster setup for $140......bummer...... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 11 19:29:10 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jul 11, 2001 08:12:09 PM Message-ID: <200107120029.f6C0TAo09802@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >If I tried to keep any of the computers in the living room, > >dining room, or any place else downstairs my life would be > >in jeopardy. > > I occasionally keep a machine set up on our kitchen table for > days on end but that's about the extent of mine migrating to other > parts of the apartment. In retaliation, my wife collects various > Barbie dolls and has 3 full display cases of the things... The only computer I use downstairs in my Inspiron 8000. I have an 802.11b subnet, so I can sit downstairs with her while she's watching some movie or TV show that I don't like without falling asleep. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 11 19:30:52 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jul 11, 2001 08:06:21 PM Message-ID: <200107120030.f6C0Uqk09825@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Actually, I don't think a movement switch would be needed with > mainframe's given that they aren't likely to be moved without a great > deal of disassembly. The AS/400 comes in a numbef of different sizes > (our AS/400 is pretty small while our AS/400e is roughly 3-4 times > it's size). I've heard mention before concerning such a switch with > them though. If that's the case, and I were stuck with one, it'd > definately be time to find another OS to run on the thing! It would > seem plenty of surplus AS/400's may be headed to the scrap heap > because nobody can afford the licensing....that ranks up there with > MS and thier new subscription-only software ideas... One drawback with the AS/400 systems is there is no alternative OS for the CISC systems (which is what you usually see selling cheap or being scrapped). The CISC AS/400 systems also can't run the newer releases of the operating system. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 11 19:36:10 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: helmet laws was : 4th of July Hypocricy (was: OT Celebration)) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010711154421.01d2a420@mailhost.intellistar.net> from joe at "Jul 11, 2001 03:47:52 pm" Message-ID: <200107120036.RAA11972@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > > No, it's not what the state of Florida has done. I doubt one of the > > > questions on the insurance application is "do you wear a helmet?" Even if > > > it is, I doubt it gets answered truthfully by those who don't. > > I doubt the insurance companies are that stupid! Don't you think > that when someone that has never had motorcyle insurance suddenly comes in > to buy it that they will know what's going on? I expect they price ALL > cycle insurnace on the assumption that the rider isn't going to wear a helmet. Exactly, everyone pays increased premiums because of the stupidity of a few. Eric From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 19:42:46 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107120029.f6C0TAo09802@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200107120029.f6C0TAo09802@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >The only computer I use downstairs in my Inspiron 8000. I >have an 802.11b subnet, so I can sit downstairs with her >while she's watching some movie or TV show that I don't >like without falling asleep. I've got a Lucent Wavelan 802.11 card in my PB 5300c but don't use it for anything at the moment. It's only capable of the 2Mps vice the newer 802.11b standard of 11Mbps. A lot longer range at the slower speed though...cool cards...and cool idea. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jul 11 19:43:51 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO References: Message-ID: <004101c10a6b$b9025200$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 3:43 AM Subject: Re: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO > > > > > > The only problem with AS/400s is that the OS licenses are > > non-transferrable and VERY expensive. > > Are these the machines that contain a vibration switch so they can tell > if they've been moved? and if so, the license becomes invalid? Only on the very big ones. The smaller ones (which this sounds like) don't. Cheers Geoff in Oz From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 19:46:10 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: <200107120030.f6C0Uqk09825@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200107120030.f6C0Uqk09825@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >One drawback with the AS/400 systems is there is no alternative >OS for the CISC systems (which is what you usually see selling >cheap or being scrapped). > >The CISC AS/400 systems also can't run the newer releases of >the operating system. I believe our AS/400e is a RISC setup. They're attempting to do whatever mods to it that are needed for it to run Win 2000. The smaller AS/400 doesn't even get used any longer. It just sits on the floor next to the larger 'e'. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jul 11 20:06:28 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: <3B4CB3E2.55C71773@idirect.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010711180533.0247a6b0@209.185.79.193> > > Are these the machines that contain a vibration switch so they can tell > > if they've been moved? and if so, the license becomes invalid? > >Jerome Fine replies: >What ever the IBM systems were that contained that feature, did >that mean that the original legal user could also not move his system >into another room? Of course not, legit owners had IBM field service move the hardware and field service replaced the vibration switch after it was moved. --Chuck From healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com Wed Jul 11 20:04:07 2001 From: healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: from "Eric Dittman" at Jul 11, 2001 12:57:18 PM Message-ID: <200107120104.f6C148921837@shell1.aracnet.com> > My wife has grumbled a bit about my collecting, esp. > when I use the loft in our house as a staging area. > Most of the stuff is either in the computer room or > the garage, but nothing beats being able to spread > a system out on the floor and coffee table to either > repair or build the system. Before I asked my wife to marry me, I gave her a tour of my storage units, and the computers I had at my folks (especially the ones in the garage). Plus I'm the one that came up with the rule that computers are only in the computer room in our apartment. Although at times there are computers, or computer related stuff in the entryway or hall. > I've recently decided to limit myself to VAX, PDP-11, > and Alpha systems. I'm going to be selling off my > CP/M and TRS-80 collection (except for my Cyzern > System 7000 and possibly my very rare Norcom clone). > When I mentioned this to my wife, I was extremely > surprised when she said I should keep the stuff! > > I guess that's one of the reasons I love her so > much; she supports my computing habit (she even > bought me my first Alpha). In my case I'm trimming my collection down to being primarily DEC because that's what I find myself the most interested in, and spending what time I have for the hobby on. The most shocking hobby/wife event happened about a month ago when she told me that she really wanted to go big swap meet. It wasn't just me that left with stuff either, she found about as much stuff to bring home as I did (it just weighed less). OTOH, a certain part of my interest in collecting classic computers has shifted over to collecting old video game systems and games, as that's something we can enjoy together. The scary thing with that is she's encouraging me to get a Neo Geo arcade machine! Anyone know of any cheap ones in the Portland, OR area? Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jul 11 20:10:38 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: KDA50's available In-Reply-To: <3B4CD340.CCE67E8E@sk.sympatico.ca> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710142855.02b1d1a0@209.185.79.193> <3B4C5AA0.1B7679B@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010711181013.02479410@209.185.79.193> At 04:29 PM 7/11/01 -0600, you wrote: >any left? my 11/73 could use one! Sorry they are all spoken for. --Chuck From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jul 11 20:11:09 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Plato terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107120111.UAA26427@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Um, 2 years, right. You're correct, I do have a CDC Plato ISP/MET terminal. Someone wrote 3-72 on one of the stickers inside the terminal, but several boards I checked appeared to have IC's from 78 or 79. The boards could well have been updated, since I received the terminal from a CDC employee in the early 80's. Does anyone have any manuals for this terminal? Just for the heck of it, I just snapped a couple digital pictures as the terminal sits in my closet: http://www-users.itlabs.umn.edu/~lemay/computers/plato -Lawrence LeMay > This is two years late, but the terminal the original poster describes > sounds like an IST (model 1), a CRT-based CDC product, vintage about 1978. > There was a later edition called the IST-II, also CDC. It had two 8" drives > and a Z-80 CPU, as well as connectivity to CDC PLATO mainframe systems, > either by dialup modem (1200 bps) or multiplexer. > > The IST is not the oldest PLATO terminal, but it is the oldest that CDC > manufactured, I suspect. Even my PLATO IV (Magnavox, 1971) is not the > oldest, but only the first mass-produced machine. The earliest ones date to > about 1961 and there are probably only two or three still in existence, if > we're lucky enough to have that many. A precursor to these would be Norman > Crowder's Auto-Tutor, vintage about 1958, which has characteristics very > similar to the PLATO terminals (though it is not a computer terminal, it > operates on filmstrip media), and PLATO's mechanisms are said to have been > influenced by this machine. > > Peter Zelchenko (pete@suba.com) > Chicago, Illinois > > > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jul 11 20:14:43 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO References: <200107120030.f6C0Uqk09825@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <00bb01c10a70$08d6e300$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: Re: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO > >One drawback with the AS/400 systems is there is no alternative > >OS for the CISC systems (which is what you usually see selling > >cheap or being scrapped). > > > >The CISC AS/400 systems also can't run the newer releases of > >the operating system. I have one which came with it's OS still installed. Of course it would be highly illegal of me to use it, as the license was not transferable under any circumstances. ;^) Later RISC variants bound the OS license to the CPU, so the machine would have to be sold as a 'going concern', so it was possible to legally get machine and license. All of this was a customer control technique intended to nullify the 2nd Hand market for AS400's, which largely succeeded. > I believe our AS/400e is a RISC setup. They're attempting to > do whatever mods to it that are needed for it to run Win 2000. Boggle! Say again? I hesitate to say anything is impossible, but it seems highly unlikely at best. How? An Intel emulator on the RISC hardware? I can't think of any other even slight viable method. (AS400 OS actually runs on a virtual machine, independent of the hardware type, much like Java in concept) > smaller AS/400 doesn't even get used any longer. It just sits on the > floor next to the larger 'e'. If it's a CISC machine, the licensing issue makes it unattractive to a commercial user. Okay, technically a hobbyist couldn't legally run it either. Technically. Cheers Geoff in Oz From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 11 20:21:25 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jul 11, 2001 08:46:10 PM Message-ID: <200107120121.f6C1LPv10021@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I believe our AS/400e is a RISC setup. They're attempting to > do whatever mods to it that are needed for it to run Win 2000. The > smaller AS/400 doesn't even get used any longer. It just sits on the > floor next to the larger 'e'. I wonder whether the mod is a coprocessor card or emulation software? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From Mzthompson at aol.com Wed Jul 11 20:38:21 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: DECstation 3100 drive mounting - (Was: Chassis Hardware) Message-ID: <78.17761f10.287e598d@aol.com> Sridhar wrote: > Hi. Two questions: > First of all, can the mounting platform of the VAXstation 3100 be > transplanted into a DECstation 3100? > Second, does anyone have any mounting rails for a DECstation 3100? I don't have any spares and in my experience they are hard to come by. A few years back a couple inquiries to DEC dealers brought quotes from $15 to $60 for the dang bracket. Hey, don't shoot me, I just the messenger. I did manage to find what I needed among other hobbyists at a more reasonable price. There are at least six different mounting brackets from that era for machines such as the DS3100, VS3100, DS5000, and the BA42. Here is some info that may help you get what you need. The DECstation 3100 can have one of two different mounting plates (DEC calls them pallets) for mounting drives in the CPU box. The first one I call a solid pallet. It has a solid front behind the removable front bezel and four threaded posts for mounting each drive bracket. The pallet part no. is 74-38401-01. Given this pallet, you can mount 2 RZ2x disks side by side at the front of the pallet. To mount the RZ23, the mounting bracket is part no. 74-38402-01. The RZ23 mounting holes are spaced differently than some other RZ2x drives, so there must be another bracket to mount other drives on this pallet but I don't have a part no. for it. The second one I call a cutout pallet. It has a cutout in the front panel behind the bezel and a 3 1/2 floppy can be installed there. The pallet part no. is 74-39823-01. Given this pallet, you can mount two RZ2x disks, one near the front beside the floppy drive, and one towards the back. The mounting bracket has two tabs that slip into the pallet and a knurled screw to attach it to the pallet. The part no. for one mounting bracket is 74-40133-01, and it will mount either an RZ23 or RZ25-E and possibly other drives. HTH Mike From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 11 20:43:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: <00bb01c10a70$08d6e300$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: <200107120030.f6C0Uqk09825@narnia.int.dittman.net> <00bb01c10a70$08d6e300$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: > > I believe our AS/400e is a RISC setup. They're attempting to >> do whatever mods to it that are needed for it to run Win 2000. > >Boggle! Say again? I hesitate to say anything is impossible, but it >seems highly unlikely at best. >How? An Intel emulator on the RISC hardware? I can't think of any >other even slight viable method. >(AS400 OS actually runs on a virtual machine, independent of the >hardware type, much like Java in concept) I"ve been told by the people looking into doing it, of which I'm not one of, that it is possible to do. They said it does require additional hardware though, and in fact it sounds like some pretty major changes too. I thought it sounded pretty far fetched, but since I don't have access to the machine, other than the fact that it physically sits in our server room, I'm not at all familiar with how they have it set up. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 11 20:52:50 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Win2000? That would be a rather large step down. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >One drawback with the AS/400 systems is there is no alternative > >OS for the CISC systems (which is what you usually see selling > >cheap or being scrapped). > > > >The CISC AS/400 systems also can't run the newer releases of > >the operating system. > > I believe our AS/400e is a RISC setup. They're attempting to > do whatever mods to it that are needed for it to run Win 2000. The > smaller AS/400 doesn't even get used any longer. It just sits on the > floor next to the larger 'e'. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From terryf at intersurf.com Wed Jul 11 20:57:31 2001 From: terryf at intersurf.com (terryf@intersurf.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: <200107120121.f6C1LPv10021@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <4.1.20010711205506.0095d450@mail.intersurf.com> Probably an INS or whatever the spin wizards at IBM call them this week. I have 2 systems, 1 Cisc and 1 Risc, the Risc has a P/Pro 200mhz INS (integrated net server) running NT4 as a plugin card on the system. Terry F At 08:21 PM 7/11/01 -0500, you wrote: >> I believe our AS/400e is a RISC setup. They're attempting to >> do whatever mods to it that are needed for it to run Win 2000. The >> smaller AS/400 doesn't even get used any longer. It just sits on the >> floor next to the larger 'e'. > >I wonder whether the mod is a coprocessor card or emulation >software? >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 11 21:05:20 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: DECstation 3100 drive mounting - (Was: Chassis Hardware) In-Reply-To: <78.17761f10.287e598d@aol.com> Message-ID: Reponses inline: On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > I don't have any spares and in my experience they are hard to > come by. A few years back a couple inquiries to DEC dealers > brought quotes from $15 to $60 for the dang bracket. Hey, > don't shoot me, I just the messenger. I did manage to find > what I needed among other hobbyists at a more reasonable price. I wouldn't mind spending $30 for two. Not that big of a deal for me. > There are at least six different mounting brackets from that > era for machines such as the DS3100, VS3100, DS5000, and the > BA42. Here is some info that may help you get what you need. Well, I'm not worried about my DS5Ks because they don't have HDD bays 8-) > The DECstation 3100 can have one of two different mounting plates > (DEC calls them pallets) for mounting drives in the CPU box. > > The first one I call a solid pallet. It has a solid front behind > the removable front bezel and four threaded posts for mounting > each drive bracket. The pallet part no. is 74-38401-01. > Given this pallet, you can mount 2 RZ2x disks side by side > at the front of the pallet. To mount the RZ23, the mounting > bracket is part no. 74-38402-01. The RZ23 mounting holes are > spaced differently than some other RZ2x drives, so there must > be another bracket to mount other drives on this pallet but > I don't have a part no. for it. This is what my VAXserver 3100s have. My more modern drives can mount in these without rails, because they have the proper threaded holes on the bottom frames of the drives themselves. > The second one I call a cutout pallet. It has a cutout in the front > panel behind the bezel and a 3 1/2 floppy can be installed there. > The pallet part no. is 74-39823-01. Given this pallet, you can > mount two RZ2x disks, one near the front beside the floppy drive, > and one towards the back. The mounting bracket has two tabs that > slip into the pallet and a knurled screw to attach it to the pallet. > The part no. for one mounting bracket is 74-40133-01, and it > will mount either an RZ23 or RZ25-E and possibly other drives. This is what my DECstation 3100 has. This is what I need either rails or a replacement pallet for. Peace... Sridhar > HTH > Mike > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Jul 11 21:09:30 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107120029.f6C0TAo09802@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: I have a Wyse terminal for that purpose. I could probably get away with a laptop. On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > The only computer I use downstairs in my Inspiron 8000. I > have an 802.11b subnet, so I can sit downstairs with her > while she's watching some movie or TV show that I don't > like without falling asleep. > -- From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jul 11 21:11:25 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: ; from jweder@telusplanet.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:33:54PM -0600 <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B4D074C.8C5B6848@greenbelt.com> Don't you really have to have a ROM monitor to play with? Assembly is fine, but one really should START with binary code on any starter mircoprocessor system, IMO. Its a bootstrap process. Assemebly language (6502 at that) comes afterward (learning process). Seems the Apple IIe is too high-level for beginners on the system. Isn't it native in BASIC? Can you get to a ROM monitor from BASIC? I have a IIe that would be fun to play around at the ROM level. Eric Mike Ford wrote: > >Speaking of this, anybody recommend a "learn about microprocessors"-type > >kit? Too bad Heathkit and Radio Shack dont sell such things anymore.. 8-( > > Try an Apple IIe. Its simple enough you can look at the motherboard and see > each major part, how its connected, etc. Get a decent intro assembly > language on the Apple II book, and start having fun. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Jul 11 21:15:08 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010711180533.0247a6b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: The existence of the switch was in some of the manuals (the relevant manual I seem to have chucked). I do recall that all that was required was to call IBM for a new license, there did not seem to be anything to be physically replaced. Paul On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > Are these the machines that contain a vibration switch so they can tell > > > if they've been moved? and if so, the license becomes invalid? > > > >Jerome Fine replies: > >What ever the IBM systems were that contained that feature, did > >that mean that the original legal user could also not move his system > >into another room? > > > Of course not, legit owners had IBM field service move the hardware and > field service replaced the vibration switch after it was moved. > > --Chuck > > -- From terryf at intersurf.com Wed Jul 11 21:27:58 2001 From: terryf at intersurf.com (terryf@intersurf.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010711180533.0247a6b0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <4.1.20010711212623.00954c10@mail.intersurf.com> I've got 2, 1 rode 200 miles in the back of my pickup and the other, I had shipped from LA to Baton Rouge by United Van Lines. No problems waking either one up, so I'm not too convinced of the "switch" Terry At 09:15 PM 7/11/01 -0500, you wrote: > > >The existence of the switch was in some of the manuals (the relevant >manual I seem to have chucked). I do recall that all that was required >was to call IBM for a new license, there did not seem to be anything to be >physically replaced. > >Paul > > >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > >> >> > > Are these the machines that contain a vibration switch so they can tell >> > > if they've been moved? and if so, the license becomes invalid? >> > >> >Jerome Fine replies: >> >What ever the IBM systems were that contained that feature, did >> >that mean that the original legal user could also not move his system >> >into another room? >> >> >> Of course not, legit owners had IBM field service move the hardware and >> field service replaced the vibration switch after it was moved. >> >> --Chuck >> >> > >-- > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Jul 11 21:47:26 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010711212623.00954c10@mail.intersurf.com> Message-ID: It could be 1) placed in the manual but never implemented 2) implemented only on certain machines (highest end 9406's or such?) On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 terryf@intersurf.com wrote: > I've got 2, 1 rode 200 miles in the back of my pickup and the other, I had > shipped from LA to Baton Rouge by United Van Lines. No problems waking > either one up, so I'm not too convinced of the "switch" > > Terry > > At 09:15 PM 7/11/01 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >The existence of the switch was in some of the manuals (the relevant > >manual I seem to have chucked). I do recall that all that was required > >was to call IBM for a new license, there did not seem to be anything to be > >physically replaced. > > > >Paul > > > > > >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > >> > >> > > Are these the machines that contain a vibration switch so they can tell > >> > > if they've been moved? and if so, the license becomes invalid? > >> > > >> >Jerome Fine replies: > >> >What ever the IBM systems were that contained that feature, did > >> >that mean that the original legal user could also not move his system > >> >into another room? > >> > >> > >> Of course not, legit owners had IBM field service move the hardware and > >> field service replaced the vibration switch after it was moved. > >> > >> --Chuck > >> > >> > > > >-- > > > > -- From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 11 21:11:19 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <540.593T950T1914191optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >Last I heard the current owners of Atari had been considering changing >*their* companies name to Atari as the Atari name is *FAR* better known. How cheap. >Then there is the fact that in Europe you can still aparently buy new TOS >based systems. Oh yes. If only I had some 5000 EUR to spare... Have a look at http://www.milan-computer.de/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Anv?nd g?rna mitt staket, fast du beh?ver nog fr?scha upp det lite. Lupin III, Lupin den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 11 21:12:41 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: <01Jul11.181819edt.119082@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <753.593T2050T1926143optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >on 7/11/01 2:23 PM, Zane H. Healy at healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >> Then there is the fact that in Europe you can still aparently buy new TOS >> based systems. > Is C-Labs still manufacturing the Falcon or is this possibly one of the >other TOS machines, such as the Haides? I could have the name spelled wrong >there. No, C-Lab aren't manufacturing any computers any more, but the Hades and Milan are still available for purchase. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Auf Sparc-Maschinen ist Linux weit weniger gut. Auf Maschinen mit sun4 Architektur ist NetBSD etwa 30% schneller. Wer auf so einer Maschine Linux faehrt tut es aus ideologischen Gruenden oder kennt nichts anderes." Aus: de.comp.os.unix.misc, "Was ist schneller?" From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 11 21:45:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars In-Reply-To: <3B4A8989.84DC4EC2@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <610.593T1200T2254721optimus@canit.se> bill claussen skrev: >? What are you talking about Are you illiterate? Judging by your quoting technique, you probably are. >Iggy Drougge wrote: >> bill claussen skrev: >> >> >I agree >> >> Has this list gone from "old computers wanted" to "immerse everyone in >> iron" and now to "AOL luser HTML parade"? >> >> Seriously, set your programs correctly! If you insist on running a program >> with HTML "features", it's your bloody responsibility to see that no such >> featuyres end up in my inbox! >> >> -- >> En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 11 22:15:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: <02b401c108ee$c53f8e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <854.593T900T2554373optimus@canit.se> Geoff Roberts skrev: >From: "Iggy Drougge" >> ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 >WheelMouseController >> ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB >photos >I have several Vaxstations and some DG Aviions. Does this mod make it >able to work on one or the other of these? No, because DEC mice are just as stupid as PC ones, using some obscure serial protocol. Don't know about Aviions. >DEC mice are obtainable here (if you can afford them, so a cheaper way >is good.) but I can't seem to find anything for my Aviion, DG are >silent/disinterested in anything that old. I have PLENTY of garden >variety serial/PS2 style mice..... Well, does anyone know if Aviions take quadrature or not? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 11 22:17:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710153817.00aac0e0@pop3.xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <829.593T2850T2576223optimus@canit.se> Jason Kyle skrev: >Most mice actually start off with quatrature output position detectors and >are then converted to serial. I had to replace an Amiga2000 mouse once, >ended up removing the mouse chip and wiring the detector outputs straight >into the amiga mouse port - works fine - no PIC required. True, but like Tony (?) said a while back, most modern PC mice are very integrated, so separating the quadrature from the serial converter really isn't feasible, one will have to eventually add some discrete electronics anyway. Right? This solution is a bit more lucurious, though, since the PIC will take the wheel button and turn it into an Amiga-digestable format. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 11 22:27:58 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1518.593T2900T2676981optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> >> There's been some talk before about adapting those blasted serial mice >> which are so common on the PC (all current PC mouses are serial, whether >> they connect to an actual RS232 port or to a "PS/2" connector) to a more >> sensible quadrature system. Was it Tony or Pete who talked about making a >> PIC based adaptor? >I know I've suggested it a couple of times. Pete might have done so as well. >> Well, here's your chance, according to the Aminet daily: >> >> ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController >> ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos >A few questions.... >1) What is the URL to get these files from? Depends on where you are. I use the mirror at http://ftp.sunet.se/~aminet/ , others might prefer to use an FTP client or ADT, the Aminet download tool. >2) What is ps2m.lha? the microcontroller program? schematics? what? Haven't bothered too look since I'm not into such advanced electronics as PICs or whatever might be involved. Besides, I'm content with my mouse, and if I need another one, I'll just slaughter a PC bus mouse. =) >3) How do I unpack a .lha file on a linux box. Is there any way to get it >as a .zip or .tar.gz file? Using LhA, of course. It's available for every OS in existence. Some people might know it as the older LhArc or LZH. BTW, there's a URL in the readme: http://rdc.euro.ru/ps2m -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jul 11 22:21:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.20010711212623.00954c10@mail.intersurf.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010711201731.02b63800@209.185.79.193> At 09:47 PM 7/11/01 -0500, Paul wrote: >It could be >1) placed in the manual but never implemented >2) implemented only on certain machines (highest end 9406's or such?) The nice thing about being IBM was that they could and did do pretty much whatever they wanted to the hardware. At Sun we had a 43xx series that delayed the move of SunNET to building 14 because IBM _had_ to be the people to move the machine. Now they do insist even if there isn't anything tricky but the point in my initial response was that any type of "license assurance" devices they might employ would not be a problem for legitimate owners because the maintenance contract typically required IBM Field Service to handle any actual moves in order for the contract to stay valid. --Chuck From jpk at jpk.co.nz Wed Jul 11 22:59:23 2001 From: jpk at jpk.co.nz (Jason Kyle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems) In-Reply-To: <829.593T2850T2576223optimus@canit.se> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710153817.00aac0e0@pop3.xtra.co.nz> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010712154630.00ab7d08@pop3.xtra.co.nz> At 15:17 12/07/2001, you wrote: >Jason Kyle wrote: > > >Most mice actually start off with quatrature output position detectors and > >are then converted to serial. I had to replace an Amiga2000 mouse once, > >ended up removing the mouse chip and wiring the detector outputs straight > >into the amiga mouse port - works fine - no PIC required. > >True, but like Tony (?) said a while back, most modern PC mice are very >integrated, so separating the quadrature from the serial converter really >isn't feasible, one will have to eventually add some discrete electronics >anyway. Right? You and Tony are knocking the addition of a simple hex inverter as a quick and simple method that nearly anyone with basic electronics skills can use to make a quadrature output mouse, how many people have PIC programmer lying around? Yes the PIC based converter is the best solution in the whole world, yes my approach which works and took about 1 hour in total is crap and shouldn't be used by anyone. No need to respond, there's enough noise on this damm list already and i've just added to it. Anybody know of a classic computing list 1. has a better signal to noise ratio and 2. has a volume suitable for those who don't have copious spare time. >This solution is a bit more lucurious, though, since the PIC will take the >wheel button and turn it into an Amiga-digestable format. > >-- >En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > >G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! >WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ >BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From elecdata at kcinter.net Thu Jul 12 01:14:47 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars References: <610.593T1200T2254721optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B4D4057.AD1AF406@kcinter.net> Chuckling, Apparently you are wanting to have a joust? Bill Iggy Drougge wrote: > bill claussen skrev: > > >? What are you talking about > > Are you illiterate? Judging by your quoting technique, you probably are. > > >Iggy Drougge wrote: > > >> bill claussen skrev: > >> > >> >I agree > >> > >> Has this list gone from "old computers wanted" to "immerse everyone in > >> iron" and now to "AOL luser HTML parade"? > >> > >> Seriously, set your programs correctly! If you insist on running a program > >> with HTML "features", it's your bloody responsibility to see that no such > >> featuyres end up in my inbox! > >> > >> -- > >> En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jul 11 23:21:39 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3B4D074C.8C5B6848@greenbelt.com>; from chomko@greenbelt.com on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 10:11:25PM -0400 References: ; <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> <3B4D074C.8C5B6848@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010711212137.A22106@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 10:11:25PM -0400, Eric Chomko wrote: > Don't you really have to have a ROM monitor to play with? Assembly is fine, but > one really should START with binary code on any starter mircoprocessor system, > IMO. Its a bootstrap process. Assemebly language (6502 at that) comes afterward > (learning process). Seems the Apple IIe is too high-level for beginners on the > system. Isn't it native in BASIC? Can you get to a ROM monitor from BASIC? I > have a IIe that would be fun to play around at the ROM level. You have a ROM monitor and (either on original ][s or the enhanced //e and newer) a small assembler. There are more sophisticated assemblers too. >From BASIC you just CALL -151. DOS works from the monitor too, and BASIC and machine language work together pretty nicely. -- Derek From lance at costanzo.net Thu Jul 12 00:13:08 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010711221308.00ada330@costanzo.net> At 02:55 PM 7/11/01 -0700, you wrote: >>I guess that's one of the reasons I love her so >>much; she supports my computing habit (she even >>bought me my first Alpha). > >OTOH my wife says if I get the computers out of the livingroom soon she >won't kill me and scatter my bones in the desert. Thats love. She's been watching too much TV - that was a CSI plot. Get rid of the toob, use the space for pooters. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Jul 12 00:13:49 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO References: Message-ID: <00eb01c10a91$6faf9c40$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Thompson" To: Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: Re: IBM AS/400(?) in Denver, CO > > It could be > > 1) placed in the manual but never implemented > 2) implemented only on certain machines (highest end 9406's or such?) My understanding is 2) above. Not sure exactly which model(s), but I too have seen references in online manuals to this, when I was trying to get my CISC AS/400 running. It's apparently functioning, and seems to be booting, but I lack a cable gizmo (I have the IBM part no if anyone has any going begging) to go from the machine's DB25 to the Twinax terminal string, so I can't talk to it. So it's currently in storage as the gizmo is several hundred dollars from an IBM reseller. I have machine complete with 4 x SCSI drives and some IBM Terminals. Hopefully I will come across the necessary cable gizmo one day at a price that is affordable for a hobbyist. Theoretically the O/S should have been deleted before it was sold (got it at auction for $25, thought it ran AIX at the time.) but it's evidently still there. Of course since the license cannot be transferred to a third party, I would not be able to use it even privately. ;^) cheers Geoff in Oz From rdd at smart.net Thu Jul 12 01:11:53 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: Backup software (was: EX8200's) In-Reply-To: <002201c10a06$b7a7e600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's possible that current third-party offerings are better than the > early stuff I've tried out, but my experience with backup software > has been pretty Of course, the opposite applies as well. Does anyone know why newer UNIX dump software tends to no longer support some form of verification of the data dumped to tapes? Some classic dump software once supported this, such as that found with SunOS 4.1.1. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Jul 12 01:09:19 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: More DEC doc scans up Message-ID: <20010712010919.J1767@mrbill.net> I've put the handbooks off for a while until I can decide on how I want to do them. Until then, MACRO-11, BATCH-11, and RSTS-11 brochures: http://www.decdocs.org/docs if anybody else has more stuff like this, please let me know. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From ndiablo at diablonet.net Wed Jul 11 22:27:55 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: DEC DF108-RM Message-ID: <3B4D193B.4D9F1198@diablonet.net> As far as I know, these are probably just regular old modems, and slow ones at that (perhaps 300, 1200, 2400 baud). All the other DF devices that I have seen thus far have been modems. Like old, slow modems, they're really worth nothing unless someone is really into recreating an entirely authentic old system or has some sort of special interest in the hardware. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From ndiablo at diablonet.net Wed Jul 11 22:32:58 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:38 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment Message-ID: <3B4D1A6A.9719F478@diablonet.net> > It's been nearly a decade since I really dealt with MicroVAXen, > but I came across a guy who has the following: > > MicroVAX 3600 > uVAX 1000 > RA81 (2) > RA90 What on earth is a uVAX 1000? I've never heard of that before. I'm rather curious to know! > and some miscellaneous cards, in four cabinets. He got them > in as part of a truckload of de-installed equipment and doesn't > have any idea what they're worth. I'm at a loss as to what to > offer for them, other than (of course) the lowest possible price. > > Any ideas on the going rate for this type of DEC equipment? In all honesty, the whole lot is really worth less than $100, unless the MicroVAX 3600 has some really nifty equipment (like a SCSI card) in it, or that uVAX 1000 is something special, as I really don't know what that is. I'm a little vague on what a RA90 is, but I know the RA81s are huge drives, and they should probably consider themselves lucky if you're willing to haul them away! > He's also got a DEC MicroServer and some VT 510's. VT510s are rather new terminals; they're not actually DEC designed. These are "technically" probably worth a little bit on the terminal market, since they're not more than a few years old (probably). On the used market, however, how much is a relatively standard terminal worth? > The guy was nice enough to give me an RL02K-DC removable > disk pack (since he didn't know what it was or what it worked > in), so he seems easy to deal with. (The disk pack did not > come with the MicroVAX stuff.) --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 12 01:15:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3B4D074C.8C5B6848@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > Apple IIe is too high-level for beginners on the system. Isn't it > native in BASIC? Can you get to a ROM monitor from BASIC? I have a IIe > that would be fun to play around at the ROM level. CALL -151 ...will get you into the machine language monitor. Enjoy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ndiablo at diablonet.net Wed Jul 11 22:39:53 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Any interest in DG Aviions or an RS/6000? Message-ID: <3B4D1C09.2FF7887C@diablonet.net> > I've got a lead on four DG Aviions, CPUs only. They look > to be pretty clean but I didn't have much time to check them > out and there was no way to test any of them. They appeared > to be identical, but I only got to see the back label on one of > them, which was an AV 4300. > > Any interest? Are these MC88000 based? If so, they're kind of neat boxes. I'd be interested in them myself, except I'm really financially strapped myself at the moment. I recall seeing a website for someone who was interested in collecting systems like this; I think it was http://www.m88k.org or something like that. IMHO, the MC88000 based Aviion systems are kind of interesting by their obscurity, as I don't see them at all around by me. > Also, at the same place there's an RS/6000 J50. Again, just the > CPU box itself and no way of testing anything. Probably just an early MCA bus POWER based machine. Again, its kind of interesting in that I don't see IBM RISC stuff very often, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not as interesting as the Aviion stuff (if its 88000 based). > If someone is seriously interested, let me know what they might > be worth (sight unseen, I know) and I'll go back with an offer to > pick 'em up. > > They're located in Maryland, if shipping or pick-up is an issue. Wish I could afford to have you grab some of these in my stead and have them shipped! All in all, they're probably not worth a whole lot of money - they're "just" older UNIX workstations. I'd offer maybe $20-50 per, depending on condition personally in terms of just being able to pick up some new hardware. Others here will probably dispute my idea of a "fair" price, though (I'm probably a bit high off the mark). --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 12 01:17:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars In-Reply-To: <3B4D4057.AD1AF406@kcinter.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: > Chuckling, > > Apparently you are wanting to have a joust? Take it outside, fellas :) (no, but really...offlist) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Chloe.Meacher at dtlr.gsi.gov.uk Thu Jul 12 04:01:27 2001 From: Chloe.Meacher at dtlr.gsi.gov.uk (Chloe Meacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Dynakit Message-ID: Hello I have a Dynakit PAS-2 Stereo Preamp, a PAS-3, a FM-3, and a Dynakit Preamp Mark II. Looking at the instructions, some of them have dates written inside by my Dad, going back to early 1960's. I am looking to sell them and I am wondering what they are worth. THanks Chloe Meacher ********************************************************************* Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions This E-mail and any files transmitted with it are private and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, the E-mail and any files have been transmitted to you in error and any copying, distribution or other use of the information contained in them is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this E-mail message amounts to a contractual or other legal commitment on the part of the Government unless confirmed by a communication signed on behalf of the Secretary of State for the DTLR. ********************************************************************* From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 12 04:02:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3B4D074C.8C5B6848@greenbelt.com> References: ; from jweder@telusplanet.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:33:54PM -0600 <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >Don't you really have to have a ROM monitor to play with? Assembly is >fine, but >one really should START with binary code on any starter mircoprocessor system, >IMO. Its a bootstrap process. Assemebly language (6502 at that) comes >afterward >(learning process). Seems the Apple IIe is too high-level for beginners >on the >system. Isn't it native in BASIC? Can you get to a ROM monitor from BASIC? I >have a IIe that would be fun to play around at the ROM level. Its been a few years, but call -151 drops you into the monitor, with a miniassembler and various other simple tools. BTW I bought a cheapo book at MicroCenter that included a software emulation/display CD of some processor, I can't remember whether it was powerPC or AMD, I am thinking its the K6. I'll have to look around for it. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 12 04:22:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010711221308.00ada330@costanzo.net> Message-ID: >>OTOH my wife says if I get the computers out of the livingroom soon she >>won't kill me and scatter my bones in the desert. Thats love. >She's been watching too much TV - that was a CSI plot. >Get rid of the toob, use the space for pooters. The current bone scattering point of contention is that she can't sit in "her" chair in the livingroom (or the sofa or love seat, but that isn't the big problem), and if she could she wouldn't be able to see the TV, which still doesn't have the DVD we bought a few weeks ago hooked up to it. BTW as I remember it was a gulf war era Saturday Night Live sketch where the elder Bush snapped back to Saddam that his bones would be scattered in the desert so his children could not find them. This is followed by the Saddam character complaining to his associates about the "bone scattering " thing. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 12 03:54:40 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107120104.f6C148921837@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Eric Dittman" at Jul 11, 2001 12:57:18 PM Message-ID: >OTOH, a certain part of my interest in collecting classic computers has >shifted over to collecting old video game systems and games, as that's >something we can enjoy together. The scary thing with that is she's >encouraging me to get a Neo Geo arcade machine! Anyone know of any cheap >ones in the Portland, OR area? What about running an emulator? I've heard from a couple people that are building their own game kiosk based on PC emulation. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 12 04:34:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Dynakit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I have a Dynakit PAS-2 Stereo Preamp, a PAS-3, a FM-3, and a Dynakit >Preamp Mark II. Looking at the instructions, some of them have dates >written inside by my Dad, going back to >early 1960's. > >I am looking to sell them and I am wondering what they are worth. Condition means a lot, but between $50 and $150 per item isn't a terrible guess. 350 Dynaco items are in the completed auctions database of Ebay, take a look. Also for top price, you will need to ship internationally, and that is pesky. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Jul 12 04:57:14 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: More DEC doc scans up Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706603B@exc-reo1> Bill Bradford wrote: > I've put the handbooks off for a while until I can decide on > how I want to do them. Until then, MACRO-11, BATCH-11, and > RSTS-11 brochures: > > http://www.decdocs.org/docs >if anybody else has more stuff like this, please let me know. At the very least the following sites have (or will have) DEC & DEC-related docs (no order implied): http://montagar.com/~patj/hcps.htm http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query_all.html http://www.vt100.net/ http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/ http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ http://www.36bit.org/dec/ I can remember yours (rather than having to hunt through bookmarks) so a few more links on there would be a quick and easy useful addition IMHO! Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Jul 12 05:43:28 2001 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: new scans Message-ID: Hi all. I finally found some time to continue scanning doc. So far I scanned (at 600 dpi) the following manuals. Each chapter is a separate TIFF file. - PDP-11/34 system user manual - PDP-11/34 maintenance manual - PDP-11/34A power system description - KY11-LB SLU/RTC programmers console/interface operation & maintenance manual - DL11-W SLU/RTC operators manual Also the following Field Maintenance Print Sets (FMPS) and Engineering Drawings (ED) are scanned at 600 dpi. They are broken into several parts, though the files are still quite big. - 11/03 Engineering Drawings MP00049 & MP00050 KD11 MP00051 MMV11-A G653, H223 MP00052 EIS & FIS, backplane, power assy, H780 MP00055 DLV11 BA11-M, H9270-A, H780 - FMPS DD11-A - ED DD11-D - FMPS DRV11 MP00054 (M7941) - FMPS LA38 MP00754 - FMPS LA8 MP00075 - FMPS LAX35-CL MP00714 (20 mA current loop), MP00738 - FMPS LAxx MP00248 serial interface - FMPS MXV11-A MP00730 (M8047) The list above is 300 Mb. So still some 340 Mb to go to fill an other CD-ROM. Next I will scan the 11/34 FP processor and the cache, after that I will start on the 11/35 and core (MF11). Anyway, is there interest in these high quality (I think) scans? happy holidays, Henk. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 12 06:27:41 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: References: from "Eric Dittman" at Jul 11, 2001 12:57:18 PM Message-ID: >What about running an emulator? I've heard from a couple people that are >building their own game kiosk based on PC emulation. With the way MAME does the arcade cabinet emulations, it wouldn't be a hard thing to do. You even get to see the cabinet's power-on self tests, if there are any, when you run a cabinet under it. Of course, with MAME it doesn't have to be a PC either....... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrice at texoma.net Thu Jul 12 06:32:53 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife References: <3.0.32.20010711221308.00ada330@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <3B4D8AE5.87240BB6@texoma.net> My first one hated my 'puters. Guess that why I'm up to wife version 2.0. Lance Costanzo wrote: > > At 02:55 PM 7/11/01 -0700, you wrote: > >>I guess that's one of the reasons I love her so > >>much; she supports my computing habit (she even > >>bought me my first Alpha). > > > >OTOH my wife says if I get the computers out of the livingroom soon she > >won't kill me and scatter my bones in the desert. Thats love. > She's been watching too much TV - that was a CSI plot. > Get rid of the toob, use the space for pooters. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 12 06:38:46 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Anyone with info on Cipher C8803 tape drives? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151308@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Does anyone have documentation and/or cabling and interface info (physical > and/or software) for this drive? Or know of a scanned or other online > reference for it? From what I read, Seagate ate Connor ate Archive ate Cipher > and there's nothing left. At one time, there was a college with a lab who had a Cipher F880 and had a PDF of the maintenance manual... I downloaded it, but seem to have lost the PDF. All I can find is the printed copy. This is maybe a different drive, but I'd be shocked if the interface wasn't either SCSI or Pertec. hth, -doug q From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jul 12 06:42:37 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <3B4D1A6A.9719F478@diablonet.net> Message-ID: <200107121142.NAA19059@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 12 Jul, Netdiablo wrote: > I'm a little vague on what a RA90 is, http://www.de.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/storage.html#storage:ra90 says: RA90 Type: disk Interface: SDI Capacity: 1.26GB Size: 26.6 x 23 x 68.5 cm, 13.6 kg -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 12 07:00:45 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Plato terminal Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151309@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > This is two years late, but the terminal the original poster describes > sounds like an IST (model 1), a CRT-based CDC product, vintage about 1978. > There was a later edition called the IST-II, also CDC. It had two 8" drives > and a Z-80 CPU, as well as connectivity to CDC PLATO mainframe systems, > either by dialup modem (1200 bps) or multiplexer. Actually, I was the original poster; a reply to me mentioned the terminal you're describing. > The IST is not the oldest PLATO terminal, but it is the oldest that CDC > manufactured, I suspect. Even my PLATO IV (Magnavox, 1971) is not the > oldest, but only the first mass-produced machine. The earliest ones date to > about 1961 and there are probably only two or three still in existence, if > we're lucky enough to have that many. A precursor to these would be Norman > Crowder's Auto-Tutor, vintage about 1958, which has characteristics very > similar to the PLATO terminals (though it is not a computer terminal, it > operates on filmstrip media), and PLATO's mechanisms are said to have been > influenced by this machine. It's one of the mid-70s Magnavox plasma displays I'm looking for... Say, are you able to connect to NovaNET with the magnavox terminal? if so, we should meet for a game of Empire or Avatar some time (although I'm sure you'll wipe me out).... or maybe a more civilized game of chess... Regards, -doug quebbeman From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 12 07:09:04 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715130A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >The only computer I use downstairs in my Inspiron 8000. I > >have an 802.11b subnet, so I can sit downstairs with her > >while she's watching some movie or TV show that I don't > >like without falling asleep. > > I've got a Lucent Wavelan 802.11 card in my PB 5300c but > don't use it for anything at the moment. It's only capable of the > 2Mps vice the newer 802.11b standard of 11Mbps. A lot longer range > at the slower speed though...cool cards...and cool idea. Hey, Jeff... What OS do you run on the PB5300? I'm running OS 8.1, but it's a real dog... -dq From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Jul 12 07:07:39 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Stuff available in Bristol, UK Message-ID: Continuing my clear-out of garage, loft and spare room: Apple Two-Page Monochrome Monitor, Family M1025Z, 100-240V, with 13W3 video input connector. No manuals, cables or info on compatibility. Don't even know if it works. Sun 19" colour monitor, HM-4119-S-AA-0 built by Hitachi, Sun part number 365-1006-01. Works with Sun-3s and the like, with four BNC video inputs. Working order. Printronix P300 dot-matrix line printer. Needs cleaning, but otherwise working. Canon laser print engine. No controller, but a direct video interface to a Sun-3 VME card (included). No driver software. MIPS R4000 case and power supply only. Size of a PC tower-case, maybe slightly larger. Diablo daisywheel printer. Missing daisywheel. Altos P-system machine, twin 8-inch floppy disk drives plus 14-inch hard disk. With boot disks. Epson PC AX 286-based PC clone. Monochrome PC screen Taxan KX-123-B. DEC TU77 reel-to-reel magtape drive. Massbus interface, with formatter for DECsystem-20 (PDP-10). Calcomp 565 digital incremental drum plotter, built in 1960s. Missing pen-holder. Personal Computer World magazines, 1984/85/86 plus a few extra copies from other years. Six Seagate ST42400ND differential SCSI hard disks. 2.1Gb capacity per drive. Compaq laptop power supply, Series 2812 for use with 2810 notebook computers. VAX power supply, model H7100B, 5V, 100A. TeleVideo terminal model TVI925. TeleVideo terminal model TVI970. Acoustic hood for silencing dot-matrix printers. With fan for ventilation. All this stuff is free (although swaps are OK!) for collection in Bristol, near the M4/M5 motorways. E-mail me directly for more info on any of these items. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jul 12 07:22:22 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Plato terminal References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151309@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B4D967E.5565BE80@atari-history.com> I wouldn't mind trying to join in on that, can you supply dial-up #'s and settings??? I think it would be interesting to see if we can all communicate with one another using Plato access, I have one of the original Plato Terminal ROM's developed by CDC for use on the Atari 800 computer system using Graphics Mode 8 (320 X 192) Curt Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > This is two years late, but the terminal the original poster describes > > sounds like an IST (model 1), a CRT-based CDC product, vintage about 1978. > > There was a later edition called the IST-II, also CDC. It had two 8" drives > > and a Z-80 CPU, as well as connectivity to CDC PLATO mainframe systems, > > either by dialup modem (1200 bps) or multiplexer. > > Actually, I was the original poster; a reply to me mentioned the > terminal you're describing. > > > The IST is not the oldest PLATO terminal, but it is the oldest that CDC > > manufactured, I suspect. Even my PLATO IV (Magnavox, 1971) is not the > > oldest, but only the first mass-produced machine. The earliest ones date to > > about 1961 and there are probably only two or three still in existence, if > > we're lucky enough to have that many. A precursor to these would be Norman > > Crowder's Auto-Tutor, vintage about 1958, which has characteristics very > > similar to the PLATO terminals (though it is not a computer terminal, it > > operates on filmstrip media), and PLATO's mechanisms are said to have been > > influenced by this machine. > > It's one of the mid-70s Magnavox plasma displays I'm looking for... > > Say, are you able to connect to NovaNET with the magnavox terminal? if > so, we should meet for a game of Empire or Avatar some time (although > I'm sure you'll wipe me out).... or maybe a more civilized game of chess... > > Regards, > -doug quebbeman From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1439.monmouth.com Thu Jul 12 07:30:31 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1439.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Backup software (was: EX8200's) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jul 12, 2001 02:11:53 am" Message-ID: <200107121230.f6CCUV705786@bg-tc-ppp1439.monmouth.com> > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > It's possible that current third-party offerings are better than the > > early stuff I've tried out, but my experience with backup software > > has been pretty > > Of course, the opposite applies as well. Does anyone know why newer > UNIX dump software tends to no longer support some form of > verification of the data dumped to tapes? Some classic dump software > once supported this, such as that found with SunOS 4.1.1. I've never seen the dump program offer verification passes on SunOS... some reference points would be nice. It may have been a SunOS enhancement. The closest thing on FreeBSD 4.3 is restore -N which restores without writing anything to disk for tape verification. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 12 07:36:16 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Plato terminal Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715130E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > This is two years late, but the terminal the original poster describes > > sounds like an IST (model 1), a CRT-based CDC product, vintage about 1978. > > There was a later edition called the IST-II, also CDC. It had two 8" drives > > and a Z-80 CPU, as well as connectivity to CDC PLATO mainframe systems, > > either by dialup modem (1200 bps) or multiplexer. > > Actually, I was the original poster; a reply to me mentioned the > terminal you're describing. I may have been incorrect in assuming the above was a reply to my post; it appears to have been otherwise.... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 12 07:42:13 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Plato terminal Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715130F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I wouldn't mind trying to join in on that, can you supply dial-up #'s and > settings??? I think it would be interesting to see if we can all communicate > with one another using Plato access, I have one of the original Plato Terminal > ROM's developed by CDC for use on the Atari 800 computer system using Graphics > Mode 8 (320 X 192) No, actually, they charge for access... and I don't know of any access except over the Internet (although I imagine dial-up and leased-line is still available). I was granted access as a "distinguished visiting scholar". But if you'd like, I'll enquire as to cost of access... maybe it's affordable (i.e. $20/month). Regards, -dq From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 12 07:48:40 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Any interest in DG Aviions or an RS/6000? In-Reply-To: <3B4D1C09.2FF7887C@diablonet.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Netdiablo wrote: > > I've got a lead on four DG Aviions, CPUs only. They look > > to be pretty clean but I didn't have much time to check them > > out and there was no way to test any of them. They appeared > > to be identical, but I only got to see the back label on one of > > them, which was an AV 4300. > > > > Any interest? > > Are these MC88000 based? If so, they're kind of neat boxes. I'd be > interested in them myself, except I'm really financially strapped > myself at the moment. I recall seeing a website for someone who > was interested in collecting systems like this; I think it was > http://www.m88k.org or something like that. IMHO, the MC88000 > based Aviion systems are kind of interesting by their obscurity, > as I don't see them at all around by me. Agreed. The M88K is neat. > > Also, at the same place there's an RS/6000 J50. Again, just the > > CPU box itself and no way of testing anything. > > Probably just an early MCA bus POWER based machine. Again, its > kind of interesting in that I don't see IBM RISC stuff very often, > but in the grand scheme of things, it's not as interesting as > the Aviion stuff (if its 88000 based). It's actually probably one of the last MCA designs. It's a very nice machine. (I want it.) It's an 8-processor deskside POWER2SC, I think. I think it's one of the fastest microchannel boxes ever made. Peace... Sridhar > > If someone is seriously interested, let me know what they might > > be worth (sight unseen, I know) and I'll go back with an offer to > > pick 'em up. > > > > They're located in Maryland, if shipping or pick-up is an issue. > > Wish I could afford to have you grab some of these in my stead and > have them shipped! All in all, they're probably not worth a whole > lot of money - they're "just" older UNIX workstations. I'd offer > maybe $20-50 per, depending on condition personally in terms of > just being able to pick up some new hardware. Others here will > probably dispute my idea of a "fair" price, though (I'm probably > a bit high off the mark). > > --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 12 07:55:47 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: ; <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> <3B4D074C.8C5B6848@greenbelt.com> <20010711212137.A22106@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <003801c10ad1$f8638980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The Apple][ is not a terribly good system for introducing someone to microcomputers for a couple of pretty simple reasons. (1) it was designed from the ground up as a video game, with emphasis and many compromises on the graphics and little real attention to the more basic aspects of computing. (2) it was designed around BASIC, rather than around a more elementary debugger/assembler, though there were, in the later models, provisions for assembler, which is probably the best tool for learning about the architecture and about microcomputers in general. That doesn't make it a bad choice as a first computer, but it does mean one has to take a number of things into consideration. I don't think it matters terribly whether one has an Apple][, ][+, ][c, or ][e, in that regard. They all have the same entaglements with the video hardware, hence, don't allow much understanding of the workings of the system until a pretty complete understanding of how NTSC video works is acquired. The video-targeted compromises made in the Apple][, e.g. splitting the video memory into separate portions, serve to make the process of learning about the interaction of the video subsystem and rest of the machine more cumbersome, though, ultimately, that's not a bad thing. One trap it's easy to fall into is the confusion between whether to approach the learning task from the top or the bottom. On one hand, it's pretty straightforward to learn about the basics of programming by using BASIC. However, though it teaches about the discipline associated with strict and precise definition of a task, it teaches nothing at all about the microcomputer. OTOH, if one attempts to learn the "basics" from a system that has only a simple debug monitor, with the ability, perhaps, of doing limited substitution of hex or binary within the existing memory map, it requires quite a bit of understanding of the basics that one hasn't really learned yet. Neither approach is perfect, and, unfortunately, there's little alternative to taking one or the other. Trying to do both is probably worse than either. A lot depends on what one wishes to learn. If one is an accomplished programmer, then the low-level approach is certainly the one most likely to produce learning about microcomputers, as contrasted with mini's and mainframes. If, OTOH, one wishes to learn programming, the Apple feature set may get in the way unless one starts with the very top-level, e.g. PASCAL or BASIC. Someone else can present arguments between bebefits of BASIC and PASCAL, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Peschel" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors > On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 10:11:25PM -0400, Eric Chomko wrote: > > Don't you really have to have a ROM monitor to play with? Assembly is fine, but > > one really should START with binary code on any starter mircoprocessor system, > > IMO. Its a bootstrap process. Assemebly language (6502 at that) comes afterward > > (learning process). Seems the Apple IIe is too high-level for beginners on the > > system. Isn't it native in BASIC? Can you get to a ROM monitor from BASIC? I > > have a IIe that would be fun to play around at the ROM level. > > You have a ROM monitor and (either on original ][s or the enhanced //e and > newer) a small assembler. There are more sophisticated assemblers too. > From BASIC you just CALL -151. DOS works from the monitor too, and BASIC > and machine language work together pretty nicely. > > -- Derek > > From curt at atari-history.com Thu Jul 12 08:15:58 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Plato terminal References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715130F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B4DA30D.39EA73FC@atari-history.com> Hi, Its worth it just to try out, you don't wanna know what I'm paying for a sDSL connection at 768K with a /27 IP block! :-) Curt Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I wouldn't mind trying to join in on that, can you supply dial-up #'s and > > settings??? I think it would be interesting to see if we can all > communicate > > with one another using Plato access, I have one of the original Plato > Terminal > > ROM's developed by CDC for use on the Atari 800 computer system using > Graphics > > Mode 8 (320 X 192) > > No, actually, they charge for access... and I don't > know of any access except over the Internet (although > I imagine dial-up and leased-line is still available). > > I was granted access as a "distinguished visiting scholar". > > But if you'd like, I'll enquire as to cost of access... maybe > it's affordable (i.e. $20/month). > > Regards, > -dq From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jul 12 08:18:54 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Another batch of books, varied types Message-ID: Here's a mixed 20 lb batch that the trashman will get if no takers by the night of 7/16.... Focus 6.0 User's Manual (1989) Focus 6.0 Guide to Operations (1989) Borland dBase 2.0 Language Reference (1993) Sybex- Practical Wordstar Uses (CP/M version ?) (1983) Hayden Books - Mastering WordStar (CP/M and DOS version ?) (1984) DAK Wordstar 5.5 User's Guide (yep the same DAK we brought up in a thread) (1991) Microsoft Works Reference for IBM Personal Computers (1989) Tandy - Right Writer User's Manual (1989) Symantec - Deskmate/Q&A Write User's Manual for Tandy/IBM PC (1989) Epson Equity + GW-BASIC 3.20 Manual (1986) Zenith - MS-DOS 4.0 User's Reference (1988) TimeWorks DataManager PC User's Manual for IBM PC and compats (1984) Novell Netware Basic Ops for Mac v2.2 (1991) Novell Netware Installation & Maint for Mac v.2.2 (1991) Tab Books- Mastering the 8088 Microprocessor by Lanny V. Dao (1984) Again..$5.00 for the batch to cover my time plus applicable USPS cheapest rate shipping, payable by check. MO, Billpoint or Paypal. Checks have to clear before shipping. 20 lbs, ships from zip 42726. If someone claims both batches I'll ship the whole 29 or 30 lbs as one unit to save shipping costs. First come, first serve. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010712/6878f2a1/attachment.html From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Jul 12 08:01:02 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Quicken/DOS books Message-ID: Have a set of 6 books for the older DOS version of Quicken to find a new home for. Here's what's in it: User's Manual for IBM (version unspecified) User's Manual for IBM/DOS (version unspecified) Upgrade Manual for IBM/DOS (v 5.0) User's Guide for IBM/DOS (v 6.0) Business Uses Guide for IBM/DOS (v6.0) Que "Using Quicken 5" for IBM/DOS All in pretty decent shape except first one has tape across spine but otherwise a useful book. If no takers by Monday 7/16 the "trashman taketh"....the cost below is basically for my time for packing. How much? $5.00 for all 6 plus the applicable cheapest route mailing. Weight 10 lbs from zip 42726. Prefer to use either ebay's Billpoint ot PayPal but can also take money order or check (has to clear 5-10 days). US and Canada only. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010712/0c355f86/attachment.html From rwagner at digalogsys.com Thu Jul 12 08:38:17 2001 From: rwagner at digalogsys.com (Rick Wagner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: A classic classiccmp day... Message-ID: Hi Mike, Do you still need information about the 20 slot Exorbus rack? Rick Wagner Digalog Systems Inc. From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Jul 12 08:47:07 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: More DEC doc scans up In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706603B@exc-reo1>; from Antonio.Carlini@riverstonenet.com on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 02:57:14AM -0700 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706603B@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <20010712084707.O1767@mrbill.net> On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 02:57:14AM -0700, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > At the very least the following sites have > (or will have) DEC & DEC-related docs > (no order implied): Thanks, I've added these. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 08:53:20 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <333.593T1000T8934437optimus@canit.se> Master of all that Sucks skrev: >Isn't Royal Dutch Shell Group still larger than ExxonMobil? >Peace... Sridhar Congratulations, Sridhar and Chomko! Like the true IT professionals you are, you have managed to splice a one-liner on top of 250 lines of unedited, quoted material! Wow, that's competent. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 09:01:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Netscape Archive In-Reply-To: <200107110504.f6B54Ft91656@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: <335.593T800T9014245optimus@canit.se> tim.mann skrev: >I looked on the old DEC MIPS workstation that we keep around at work with >the software we ran on it back in those days, and it seems we didn't have >Netscape for it, just Mosaic. Doesn't come as much of a surprise. =( -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 09:20:55 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084905.00cb9ba0@pc> Message-ID: <645.593T2750T9206411optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 12:35 AM 7/11/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>>Compaq Deskpro 386 (forget how big the hard drive is) >>>IBM PC-XT >>>[...] >>Obviously, the best home for these are down in Africa or other particularly >>poor homes. >And why would they want them? Nothing's worse than being poor, >and given something worthless by someone who thinks it'll help you. Oh, come on, that's easy to say if you're from the rich world and have had computers for twenty years. Even I would rather have a 386 than no computer at all. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A liberal is someone too poor to be conservative, and too rich to be a communist. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 09:45:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107120104.f6C148921837@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <511.593T2800T9456949optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >OTOH, a certain part of my interest in collecting classic computers has >shifted over to collecting old video game systems and games, as that's >something we can enjoy together. The scary thing with that is she's >encouraging me to get a Neo Geo arcade machine! Anyone know of any cheap >ones in the Portland, OR area? It's too bad SNK went under a few months ago. Now who will tend to my 2D gaming interests? Arcade halls will never be the same again. =( -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 12 08:52:40 2001 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Anyone have a 7 track 1/2 head assembly? Message-ID: <200107121352.GAA05807@spies.com> I may be getting some 7 track tapes of some SDS 940 software, and I'm having one heck of a time finding a 7 track drive in any condition to build an analog-level tape reader. Does anyone have a 7 track head assembly that they can spare? From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 12 08:55:16 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Plato terminal In-Reply-To: <3B4DA30D.39EA73FC@atari-history.com> Message-ID: You'll never guess why I am getting two large pipe (7.1 down 1.544 up) ADSLs installed with my /26 block 8;-) Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > Hi, > > Its worth it just to try out, you don't wanna know what I'm paying for a > sDSL connection at 768K with a /27 IP block! :-) > > > Curt From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 12 09:29:48 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Anyone have a 7 track 1/2 head assembly? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151313@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I may be getting some 7 track tapes of some SDS 940 software, and > I'm having one heck of a time finding a 7 track drive in any condition > to build an analog-level tape reader. > > Does anyone have a 7 track head assembly that they can spare? The old DECer Henry W. Miller is checking on a set for me... if he comes through, they're yours. As long as my 7-track conversions manage to "float to the top"... It may be months before I hear back from him, though, so don't put all your eggs in *my* basket... From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 12 09:33:51 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Another batch of books, varied types Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151315@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Dang, I'd like the Zenith DOS manual, no interest in anything else in the batch... -dq -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblake@bigfoot.com] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:19 AM To: Classic computers message group Subject: Another batch of books, varied types Here's a mixed 20 lb batch that the trashman will get if no takers by the night of 7/16.... Focus 6.0 User's Manual (1989) Focus 6.0 Guide to Operations (1989) Borland dBase 2.0 Language Reference (1993) Sybex- Practical Wordstar Uses (CP/M version ?) (1983) Hayden Books - Mastering WordStar (CP/M and DOS version ?) (1984) DAK Wordstar 5.5 User's Guide (yep the same DAK we brought up in a thread) (1991) Microsoft Works Reference for IBM Personal Computers (1989) Tandy - Right Writer User's Manual (1989) Symantec - Deskmate/Q&A Write User's Manual for Tandy/IBM PC (1989) Epson Equity + GW-BASIC 3.20 Manual (1986) Zenith - MS-DOS 4.0 User's Reference (1988) TimeWorks DataManager PC User's Manual for IBM PC and compats (1984) Novell Netware Basic Ops for Mac v2.2 (1991) Novell Netware Installation & Maint for Mac v.2.2 (1991) Tab Books- Mastering the 8088 Microprocessor by Lanny V. Dao (1984) Again..$5.00 for the batch to cover my time plus applicable USPS cheapest rate shipping, payable by check. MO, Billpoint or Paypal. Checks have to clear before shipping. 20 lbs, ships from zip 42726. If someone claims both batches I'll ship the whole 29 or 30 lbs as one unit to save shipping costs. First come, first serve. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 12 09:48:53 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Plato terminal Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151317@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > You'll never guess why I am getting two large pipe (7.1 down 1.544 > up) ADSLs installed with my /26 block 8;-) You dirty dogs! Must be nice to live within 14,000 feet of your central office... I'm 19,473 feet out, so until they build a mini-CO to hang some DSLAMs in that's closer to home, cable is my only choice, and as long as certain managers remain there, I will *not* do business with them. So I'm hosed... -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jul 12 09:51:04 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars In-Reply-To: References: <3B4D4057.AD1AF406@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010712095031.01cba7b0@pc> At 11:17 PM 7/11/01 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: >> Chuckling, >> Apparently you are wanting to have a joust? >Take it outside, fellas :) >(no, but really...offlist) Yeah, you're only allowed to joust Dick on this list. - John From aek at spies.com Thu Jul 12 10:09:14 2001 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Anyone have a 7 track 1/2 head assembly? Message-ID: <200107121509.IAA09030@spies.com> > The old DECer Henry W. Miller is checking on a set for me... if > he comes through, they're yours. As long as my 7-track conversions > manage to "float to the top"... thanks! I've sent some mail to John Bradtanau as well, to see if there were any 7 track head assemblies for TU10's in the stuff he still has from the DEC FS warehouse stuff that he bought. I wonder if Tim Shoppa has anything set up for reading 7 track media. He hasn't said much on the topic, or about the techniques he had developed for one pass tape reading. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jul 12 09:55:50 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: <645.593T2750T9206411optimus@canit.se> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010711084905.00cb9ba0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010712095341.01d2cb00@pc> At 03:20 PM 7/12/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >John Foust skrev: >>And why would they want them? Nothing's worse than being poor, >>and given something worthless by someone who thinks it'll help you. > >Oh, come on, that's easy to say if you're from the rich world and have had >computers for twenty years. Even I would rather have a 386 than no computer at >all. Giving them a small stack of money might help more, considering they probably don't have electricity. (Average annual income in Nigeria, $300 a year.) And the computer should come with software, manuals (in a useful language) and training in how to use it. And a printer, so they can make banners that say "Boy, I sure am hungry." - John From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Jul 12 10:20:37 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: KDA50's available In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010710142855.02b1d1a0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I have several (at least 3) complete KDA50s with the top connectors available. > > This is a two board set and lets your Q-bus based machine talk to SDI (aka > RAxx series) drives. If anyone on the list wants them let me know, postage > will be 3 lbs priority mail (about $6 in the continental US) > > Any not claimed by Monday 5pm PDT go to Ebay, and those that don't sell go > into my VCF West pile. > Can I claim two of them?? I have quite a collection of RA disks here still running and spare boards are getting hard to find. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 12 10:23:37 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Plato terminal In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151317@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: How do you find out the exact number of feet you're out from the CO? Peace.. Sridhar On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > You'll never guess why I am getting two large pipe (7.1 down 1.544 > > up) ADSLs installed with my /26 block 8;-) > > You dirty dogs! Must be nice to live within 14,000 feet of > your central office... I'm 19,473 feet out, so until they > build a mini-CO to hang some DSLAMs in that's closer to home, > cable is my only choice, and as long as certain managers > remain there, I will *not* do business with them. > > So I'm hosed... > > -dq > From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Jul 12 10:51:22 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <3B4DC77A.7AC11BFB@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Apple IIe is too high-level for beginners on the system. Isn't it > > native in BASIC? Can you get to a ROM monitor from BASIC? I have a IIe > > that would be fun to play around at the ROM level. > > CALL -151 > > ...will get you into the machine language monitor. Will do. Only thing I have done on them is some AppleDOS and BASIC Eric > > > Enjoy. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 12 12:16:14 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <511.593T2800T9456949optimus@canit.se> References: <200107120104.f6C148921837@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Zane H. Healy skrev: > >>OTOH, a certain part of my interest in collecting classic computers has >>shifted over to collecting old video game systems and games, as that's >>something we can enjoy together. The scary thing with that is she's >>encouraging me to get a Neo Geo arcade machine! Anyone know of any cheap >>ones in the Portland, OR area? > >It's too bad SNK went under a few months ago. Now who will tend to my 2D >gaming interests? Arcade halls will never be the same again. =( Say, what?!?!?! I know they pulled out of the US, but as far as I know they're still alive and well in Japan. In fact they just released "Metal Slug X" for the Playstation 1. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 12 12:35:22 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: References: <200107120104.f6C148921837@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Eric Dittman" at Jul 11, 2001 12:57:18 PM Message-ID: >>OTOH, a certain part of my interest in collecting classic computers has >>shifted over to collecting old video game systems and games, as that's >>something we can enjoy together. The scary thing with that is she's >>encouraging me to get a Neo Geo arcade machine! Anyone know of any cheap >>ones in the Portland, OR area? > >What about running an emulator? I've heard from a couple people that are >building their own game kiosk based on PC emulation. There is a website for doing a PC-to-JAMMA conversion, but for some crazy reason I really want a 4-slot Neo Geo Arcade machine. There are four possible solutions I came up with, and my wife prefers the Arcade Machine and MAME. Solutions: HGA - Home Game Arcade system http://www.gwtrading.com This lets you connect a JAMMA board to your TV (JAMMA is the industry standard interface for Arcade boards) and give you two arcade quality controllers. Neo Geo Home Cart system with MVS converter (need the converter to play the cheap arcade carts instead of the expensive home carts). Arcade System MAME on a PC hooked up to the TV Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jul 12 13:27:31 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Arcade System > > MAME on a PC hooked up to the TV > Zane, I've got a neat little gadget called a Hotshot. It's basically wooden tabletop box that's got a pair of arcade controller joysticks and a bunch of buttons on it. It's a keyboard wedge device so it sits between the pc and the keyboard. VERY cool gadget. It would be the perfect thing to build into an arcade cabinet. I just wish I could find the URL for their site. The version I have is only $119 or so. g. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jul 12 13:39:49 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife Message-ID: You can buy arcade controls (track balls, joy sticks, buttons, etc.) from Happ Controls http://www.happcontrols.com/. Not cheap, but they are the real thing. I have been using a track ball from them for 10 years or so. -----Original Message----- From: Gene Buckle [mailto:geneb@deltasoft.com] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:28 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Collecting vs. My Wife Zane, I've got a neat little gadget called a Hotshot. It's basically wooden tabletop box that's got a pair of arcade controller joysticks and a bunch of buttons on it. From ndiablo at diablonet.net Thu Jul 12 10:11:20 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:39 2005 Subject: Any interest in DG Aviions or an RS/6000? References: Message-ID: <3B4DBE18.5E45DB53@diablonet.net> Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > Also, at the same place there's an RS/6000 J50. Again, just the > > > CPU box itself and no way of testing anything. > > > > Probably just an early MCA bus POWER based machine. Again, its > > kind of interesting in that I don't see IBM RISC stuff very often, > > but in the grand scheme of things, it's not as interesting as > > the Aviion stuff (if its 88000 based). > > It's actually probably one of the last MCA designs. It's a very nice > machine. (I want it.) It's an 8-processor deskside POWER2SC, I think. I > think it's one of the fastest microchannel boxes ever made. > > Peace... Sridhar Well, that certainly showed my ignorance of IBM RS/6000 machines :) In that case, this would really be one heck of a box, and actually pretty competitive with modern machines. That can't be too old, then, actually, I'd imagine. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From ndiablo at diablonet.net Thu Jul 12 10:16:57 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Any interest in DG Aviions or an RS/6000? References: Message-ID: <3B4DBF69.4C491C30@diablonet.net> Master of all that Sucks wrote: > It's actually probably one of the last MCA designs. It's a very nice > machine. (I want it.) It's an 8-processor deskside POWER2SC, I think. I > think it's one of the fastest microchannel boxes ever made. > > Peace... Sridhar Geez, I hate it when I send out two e-mails like this, but I actually tracked down a page with some decent information about the machine. Looks like it's a 4x 200 MHz PPC 604e, which, on one hand is no 8x P2SC, but on the other hand, its certainly no slouch as well. Seems to be circa 1997 or so. That site is as follows: http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu95/results/res97q2/cpu95-970414-01783.html --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 12 13:08:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Its been a few years, but call -151 drops you into the monitor, with a > miniassembler and various other simple tools. The Mini-Assembler is only available if you have "Integer" ROMs (basically an original, unmodified Apple II will have come with Integer BASIC ROMs, and the two vacant ROM slots that AppleSoft later took up would be populated with ROMs containing the MA, and other cool stuff). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 12 14:19:19 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Any interest in DG Aviions or an RS/6000? In-Reply-To: <3B4DBF69.4C491C30@diablonet.net> Message-ID: If its four 604e's, it can be upgraded to eight by adding two more processor complexes. Also, the processor complexes can be replaced with ones that accept Power3-IIs at 375 MHz. Eight of those and you have a pretty good machine. It was more than $25,000 new. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Netdiablo wrote: > Geez, I hate it when I send out two e-mails like this, but I actually > tracked down a page with some decent information about the machine. > Looks like it's a 4x 200 MHz PPC 604e, which, on one hand is no 8x > P2SC, but on the other hand, its certainly no slouch as well. Seems > to be circa 1997 or so. > > That site is as follows: > > http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu95/results/res97q2/cpu95-970414-01783.html > > --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 12 14:22:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> Arcade System >> >> MAME on a PC hooked up to the TV >> > >Zane, I've got a neat little gadget called a Hotshot. It's basically >wooden tabletop box that's got a pair of arcade controller joysticks and a >bunch of buttons on it. It's a keyboard wedge device so it sits between >the pc and the keyboard. VERY cool gadget. It would be the perfect thing >to build into an arcade cabinet. I just wish I could find the URL for >their site. The version I have is only $119 or so. > >g. It sounds like the Hotshot and the Hotrod are basically the same device. It took some looking, as the "Hotrod" website disappeared just after I started looking into this, but I just found another site here: http://www.hanaho.com/products/HotRodJoystick/ Hanaho also sells three different models of MAME cabinets. Pretty cool stuff. I can see why you can't find anything for Hotshot, searching for that seems to dig up just about everything else. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 12 13:28:33 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <003801c10ad1$f8638980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The Apple][ is not a terribly good system for introducing someone to > microcomputers for a couple of pretty simple reasons. (1) it was > designed from the ground up as a video game, with emphasis and many > compromises on the graphics and little real attention to the more > basic aspects of computing. (2) it was designed around BASIC, rather Here we go again. At the risk of offending Dick with historical fact, the Apple ][ was NOT "designed from the ground up as a video game". Certainly it implemented graphics and sound features, but these were just clever hacks by Woz that added these powerful features without significant additional circuitry. I don't know why I even welcome the eventual flood of nonsense from our friend Dick by even bothering to respond to his message, but nonsense coming from anyone should not go unanswered. > than around a more elementary debugger/assembler, though there were, > in the later models, provisions for assembler, which is probably the BZZZT. Wrong again, the original Apple ][, as I just previously mentioned, had an assembler built into the ROM. Thanks for playing. Your consolation prize is a vat of molten iron. Just to keep things in perspective, when Woz designed the Apple-1, and subsequently, by way of evolving the design, the Apple ][, he very much had in mind the design elements and structure of mini-computers of the day. Woz told me personally that he was very inspired by the design of the Data General Nova (mostly because of the simplicity of it's circuitry). The big difference was that the Apple was designed around a cheap microprocessor, rather than implementing his own processor, which I think even you will agree makes more sense, considering the time (1975-76). The monitor feature was there from the start, and was the main interface by which the user interacted with or programmed the computer. Creating a BASIC interpreter was obviously an attempt to make the computer more immediately useful to the average computer geek of the time. > best tool for learning about the architecture and about microcomputers > in general. That doesn't make it a bad choice as a first computer, > but it does mean one has to take a number of things into > consideration. I don't think it matters terribly whether one has an > Apple][, ][+, ][c, or ][e, in that regard. They all have the same > entaglements with the video hardware, hence, don't allow much > understanding of the workings of the system until a pretty complete > understanding of how NTSC video works is acquired. More nonsense. The Apple ][ is a very good introduction to modern day PCs. It's cheap, abundant, and easy to use and program. > The video-targeted compromises made in the Apple][, e.g. splitting the > video memory into separate portions, serve to make the process of > learning about the interaction of the video subsystem and rest of the > machine more cumbersome, though, ultimately, that's not a bad thing. What better way to learn about video than to HAVE to confront the video system limitations head on and basically write code to emulate what would amount to video hardware in other machines? Anyway, I'm putting my armor back on in anticipation of the impending battle. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From javi at cse.ucsc.edu Thu Jul 12 14:47:29 2001 From: javi at cse.ucsc.edu (Francis. Javier Mesa) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Any interest in DG Aviions or an RS/6000? In-Reply-To: <3B4DBE18.5E45DB53@diablonet.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Netdiablo wrote: > Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > > > Also, at the same place there's an RS/6000 J50. Again, just the > > > > CPU box itself and no way of testing anything. > > > > > > Probably just an early MCA bus POWER based machine. Again, its > > > kind of interesting in that I don't see IBM RISC stuff very often, > > > but in the grand scheme of things, it's not as interesting as > > > the Aviion stuff (if its 88000 based). > > > > It's actually probably one of the last MCA designs. It's a very nice > > machine. (I want it.) It's an 8-processor deskside POWER2SC, I think. I > > think it's one of the fastest microchannel boxes ever made. As far as I know the J50 is PowerPC based, not P2SC. I am sure because we had several and they were all 604 machines. It can be expanded up to 8 processors, but usually it comes with 2 (most of the machines I used anyway) Cheers. _______________________________________________________________________ Francisco J. MesaMartinez http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~javi _______________________________________________________________________ Basking Engineering Ctr #228 email:javi@cse.ucsc.edu University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 phone:(831) 502-2073 _______________________________________________________________________ From hans at vaxbusters.org Thu Jul 12 14:58:52 2001 From: hans at vaxbusters.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > [nonsense meant to offend Sellam] > Here we go again. [etc] Sellam, why don't you ignore this idiot? He's just not worth your time. We have this saying: "He who argues with idiots is an idiot himself". I don't want to say that you are an idiot, I'd just suggest that you put this idiot in your mental kill file and find some peace. Hey, Dick is just that: An selfish idiot who - quite obviously - compensates for something when he posts to classiccmp. Hey, this guy claimed that an EXB-8200 is a "extremely reliable" drive and he suggests that it is a good idea to put valuable data on 8 mm tapes. Well, me experience is quite different, but why argue with someone who has shown so much ignorance and disrepect for others? That said, let me just say "Hi" from Berlin :) -Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jul 12 15:08:09 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > It sounds like the Hotshot and the Hotrod are basically the same device. > It took some looking, as the "Hotrod" website disappeared just after I > started looking into this, but I just found another site here: > http://www.hanaho.com/products/HotRodJoystick/ > > Hanaho also sells three different models of MAME cabinets. Pretty cool stuff. > > I can see why you can't find anything for Hotshot, searching for that seems > to dig up just about everything else. > That was my mistake. It was indeed the Hotrod and not the Hotshot. I'll have to check out Hanaho again, I didn't know they were making new cabinets. g. From hans at vaxbusters.org Thu Jul 12 15:21:04 2001 From: hans at vaxbusters.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Hans H?bner wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > [nonsense meant to offend Sellam] > > > Here we go again. [etc] > > Sellam, > > why don't you ignore this idiot? [...] Uh, Dick, sorry. This was not meant to go public and provoke another post of you. Take it easy, will you? -Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 12 12:57:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3B4D074C.8C5B6848@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Jul 11, 1 10:11:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1024 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010712/e77ce80e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 12 13:19:42 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010712154630.00ab7d08@pop3.xtra.co.nz> from "Jason Kyle" at Jul 12, 1 03:59:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3956 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010712/13c1cf37/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 12 14:08:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: <645.593T2750T9206411optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 12, 1 03:20:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1555 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010712/1d026cf3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 12 15:18:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 12, 1 11:08:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 554 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010712/79ee246a/attachment.ksh From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jul 12 15:40:41 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife Message-ID: Regarding wives, computers, and airports Actually I live across the street from a grass airport. Unlighted no flying after dark. I've only had 1 plane crash land there and he walked up and knocked on my door during dinner. He selected our airport because he didn't want to scratch his airplane on a paved strip. The neighborhood is buying the airport for a park, instead of more houses. My wife humors me about computers mainly because I'm not adverse to boats. The other side of my house is on a lake. Regarding TZ867 and TZ857 DLT library loaders. I have one of each and want to get rid of them. Any interest? Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jul 12 15:40:06 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Anyone with info on Cipher C8803 tape drives? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151308@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B4E0B26.E07F4FFE@internet1.net> It better be Pertec and not SCSI! If it were SCSI that would mean I just gave away a Qbus SCSI card.... I think I would shoot myself :-) I think the card was an Emulex UC07, or TC07, or something like that.... I don't know :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > This is maybe > a different drive, but I'd be shocked if the interface wasn't either > SCSI or Pertec. > > hth, > -doug q From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jul 12 15:52:51 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Plato terminal Message-ID: I think you call up the telco and ask them the question and then they run some test and report back to you. >How do you find out the exact number of feet you're out from the CO? > >Peace.. Sridhar Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 12 15:56:52 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > John Foust skrev: > > > > >At 12:35 AM 7/11/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > >>>Compaq Deskpro 386 (forget how big the hard drive is) > > >>>IBM PC-XT > > >>>[...] > > >>Obviously, the best home for these are down in Africa or other particularly > > >>poor homes. > > > > >And why would they want them? Nothing's worse than being poor, > > >and given something worthless by someone who thinks it'll help you. > > > > Oh, come on, that's easy to say if you're from the rich world and have had > > computers for twenty years. Even I would rather have a 386 than no computer at > > all. > > IMHO, more clueful/knowledgeable people can do useful work on less > powerful computers. > > For example, if I _had_ to, I could get useful work done using only a Z80 > box running CP/M. I'd not want that as my only computer, but I'd find a > way to configure some kind of word processor to drive a printer and > produce reasonable documents. Sure it wouldn't be as nice as LaTeX, but > it would get the job done. > > And I could certainly write useful programs on it to support my hardware > hacking type projects. > > And I could certainly do useful work on just about any unix box, however > old. That includes all 386+ PCs that can run linux. > > But most people can't. They can't write special software (which generally > _is_ requeired to use older machines -- there just aren't ready-written > applications for a lot of uses). They can't wire up special cables or > make interfaces to hook them up to other devices (like printers). Heck, > they'd even be lost if faced with a command line.... We need to recognize, Tony, that there are a vast number of people out there who firmly believe that if they are not running Windoze or Macos that it is impossible to do anything productive. - don From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Jul 12 16:06:04 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Anyone with info on Cipher C8803 tape drives? In-Reply-To: <3B4E0B26.E07F4FFE@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200107122106.XAA20179@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 12 Jul, Chad Fernandez wrote: > It better be Pertec and not SCSI! SCSI is one 50 pin connector, Pertec uses two 50 pin connectors. > If it were SCSI that would mean I just gave away a Qbus SCSI card.... > I think I would shoot myself :-) Happy suicide! ;-) > I think the card was an Emulex UC07, or TC07, or something like that.... > I don't know :-) field-guide.txt: UC07D Q Emulex single SCSI bus adaptor. TC07 is not listed. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jul 12 16:13:19 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal) Message-ID: Or you can sign up for DSL service, wait 5 months to get the line brought into your house, during which time you have to be home for half a dozen service calls, then the Telco will run the test and tell you that you are too far away. That was my experience with Telocity and Ameritech in Chicago. :( -----Original Message----- From: McFadden, Mike [mailto:mmcfadden@cmh.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 3:53 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Plato terminal I think you call up the telco and ask them the question and then they run some test and report back to you. >How do you find out the exact number of feet you're out from the CO? > >Peace.. Sridhar Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 12 16:20:37 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >We need to recognize, Tony, that there are a vast number of people out >there who firmly believe that if they are not running Windoze or Macos >that it is impossible to do anything productive. Which is pretty funny since productive things on computers were being accomplished decades before either one of them showed up. There are also a lot of people who don't realize that there exists any type of system other than a Windows box There just aren't that many people willing to go further to learn about stuff. They want it fed to them by the advertising agencies without having to put forth any further effort. Of course, if they do ask an 'expert' about something, they'll often reinforce such thinking because it's their bread and butter. Getting back on the original comment though, there are few systems that I have here that I would truly call useless, and that would likely be more due to lack of knowledge on my part than shortcomings on the system's part. Even my Timex-Sinclair has it's simple uses. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com Thu Jul 12 16:47:01 2001 From: healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jul 12, 2001 01:08:09 PM Message-ID: <200107122147.f6CLl1K10983@shell1.aracnet.com> > That was my mistake. It was indeed the Hotrod and not the Hotshot. I'll > have to check out Hanaho again, I didn't know they were making new > cabinets. > > g. The Hotrod does look *VERY* cool, though I'm wondering about the company that makes it since, like I said, their website just went off the air. If I go the MAME route, this will be the long-term controller solution most likely (I'm really not sure what controllers are available on the PC side). OTOH, I think I know which solution my wife wants. I just got an email from her, she's apparently been calling around and has found a place locally that gets Neo Geo Arcade machines in from time to time, and has left our name and number with them. Which just might get this back on topic for this thread :^) Zane From vance at ikickass.org Thu Jul 12 16:47:54 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, but if one learns how to use computers without being exposed to GUIs, as I believe many of us have, one becomes very proficient. Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > IMHO, more clueful/knowledgeable people can do useful work on less > powerful computers. > > For example, if I _had_ to, I could get useful work done using only a Z80 > box running CP/M. I'd not want that as my only computer, but I'd find a > way to configure some kind of word processor to drive a printer and > produce reasonable documents. Sure it wouldn't be as nice as LaTeX, but > it would get the job done. > > And I could certainly write useful programs on it to support my hardware > hacking type projects. > > And I could certainly do useful work on just about any unix box, however > old. That includes all 386+ PCs that can run linux. > > But most people can't. They can't write special software (which generally > _is_ requeired to use older machines -- there just aren't ready-written > applications for a lot of uses). They can't wire up special cables or > make interfaces to hook them up to other devices (like printers). Heck, > they'd even be lost if faced with a command line.... > > -tony > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jul 12 17:13:42 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107122147.f6CLl1K10983@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > The Hotrod does look *VERY* cool, though I'm wondering about the company > that makes it since, like I said, their website just went off the air. If I > go the MAME route, this will be the long-term controller solution most > likely (I'm really not sure what controllers are available on the PC side). > Actually I was able to get to the HanaHo site with no problems at all after you posted the URL. The Hotrod IS very cool. You hit one of the side buttons to drop coins in and go for it. :) I just wish they made a modular one that had a spinning knob in it so I could play Tempest *properly*. *laughs* g. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 12 16:04:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <002d01c10b20$00f1f340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have no desire to get Sellam started again. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans H?bner" To: Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Hans H?bner wrote: > > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > [nonsense meant to offend Sellam] > > > > > Here we go again. [etc] > > > > Sellam, > > > > why don't you ignore this idiot? [...] > > Uh, Dick, sorry. This was not meant to go public and provoke another post of > you. Take it easy, will you? > > -Hans > > -- > finger hans@huebner.org for details > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 12 17:33:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 12, 1 01:56:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1133 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010712/a3935e60/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 12 17:49:04 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Re: MicroVAX equipment (Zane H. Healy) References: <200107120028.f6C0SPH20084@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <15182.10592.864745.616079@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 11, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'd say $100 max. In some ways he should be paying you to remove the > RA81's! Heh. I know a guy in Baltimore who pays real $$$ for RA81 HDAs. One man's "classic computer" is another organization's "production hardware". -Dave McGuire From healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com Thu Jul 12 18:03:00 2001 From: healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jul 12, 2001 03:13:42 PM Message-ID: <200107122303.f6CN30s14744@shell1.aracnet.com> > Actually I was able to get to the HanaHo site with no problems at all > after you posted the URL. The Hotrod IS very cool. You hit one of the Hanaho isn't the manufacturer of the Hotrod is it? > side buttons to drop coins in and go for it. :) I just wish they made a > modular one that had a spinning knob in it so I could play Tempest > *properly*. *laughs* Oh, I totally agree, as then I'd *have* to get one, that way I could play Omega Race *properly* :^) Zane From healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com Thu Jul 12 18:05:30 2001 From: healyzh at shell1.aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 12, 2001 06:49:04 PM Message-ID: <200107122305.f6CN5Ub14932@shell1.aracnet.com> > On July 11, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I'd say $100 max. In some ways he should be paying you to remove the > > RA81's! > > Heh. I know a guy in Baltimore who pays real $$$ for RA81 HDAs. > > One man's "classic computer" is another organization's "production > hardware". > > -Dave McGuire > I totally understand as I know someone that pays real money for them as well, but that doesn't mean that *I* want to mess with a RA81! My knees are worth more than the going rate! And that last statement is what sometimes makes this hobby almost pay for itself. Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 12 18:18:44 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Re: MicroVAX equipment (Zane H. Healy) References: <200107122305.f6CN5Ub14932@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <15182.12372.254198.730283@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 12, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > One man's "classic computer" is another organization's "production > > hardware". > > I totally understand as I know someone that pays real money for them as > well, but that doesn't mean that *I* want to mess with a RA81! My knees are > worth more than the going rate! Oh no, of course not...I wouldn't suggest otherwise. Those buzzards are *painful* to move. -Dave McGuire From sieler at allegro.com Thu Jul 12 18:40:06 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Jupiter Ace available (for about $125?) Message-ID: <3B4DD2E6.22616.EFAFF9@localhost> Hi, I received email from someone offering me a nice condition Jupiter Ace (PAL output), for about US$125. The machine may be in Australia. I have an Ace ... although I wouldn't mind a spare, I don't want one for that much money just now :) If any collector is interested in it, please email me and I'll forward your mail to the guy with the computer. thanks, Stan Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From r.stek at snet.net Thu Jul 12 18:43:54 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Historically interesting (?) 'scope - and the winner is.... Message-ID: <000001c10b2c$84390340$0301a8c0@bob> Well, Steve Ciarcia's Heathkit IO-105 has been won. It was a tough choice amongst the many and varied entries. I lost a little sleep worrying about whether or not I had made the right choice. But to give everyone who entered this contest their due, let me list the runners up before announcing the BIG winner: First and fastest offer - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks Best CP/M related offer - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks Best 8080-code compatible offer - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks Best hardware offer (general) - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks Best hardware offer (CPU) - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks Best computer related item ever mentioned in a computer magazine - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks Last offer - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks ... And the BIG winner of this fabulous fuse-blowing marvel is - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks Congratulations, Ethan! This 'scope is now yours and the faster I can get it out of my basement, the better. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 12 19:15:31 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Plato terminal In-Reply-To: "McFadden, Mike" "RE: Plato terminal" (Jul 12, 15:52) References: Message-ID: <10107130115.ZM5730@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 12, 15:52, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Sridhar wrote > >How do you find out the exact number of feet you're out from the CO? > I think you call up the telco and ask them the question and then they run > some test and report back to you. It's a time-domain reflectometer test. Basically you send a narrow pulse down the cable and look for a spike coming back. You can do it with a pulse generator and an oscilloscope. Trigger the scope from the pulse generator, and display the voltage on the cable. Any discontinuity in the cable will show up as a bump in the trace (a discontinuity might be an imperfect splice, or a sharp bend in a coaxial or twisted pair cable which crushes the cable and distorts the geometry), and unless the end is perfectly terminated, it will cause a reflection which will show up as a spike. Then if you know the cable characteristics, specifically the velocity factor, measuring the time between the pulse and the bumps or spikes allows you to work out how far down the cable they are. The same technique is used for optical fibres. A couple of weeks ago, we had a bunch of about 30 spliced (previously they were connected via two sets of patch panels). The guy who did the splices produced a very fancy optical TDR, which showed the graphs of the returns as well as the times and distances. He was even able to point out where there were patch panels on the far end and estimate how long the attached patch leads were. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jul 12 19:10:42 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Free PDP-11/30 in Urbana, IL, USA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010712191005.00cefa70@pc> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:28:53 -0500 To: Greenkeys@qth.net From: Bill Henry Subject: [GreenKeys] PDP-11 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-greenkeys@qth.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Bill Henry Status: Anyone have the hots for a PDP-11/30 - circa 1980? It's sitting here in Urbana, IL. Worked last time we used it - maybe 10 years ago. Includes CRT terminal, 3 hard disk drives (the BIG drives) 2 floppy drives (also BIG), 3/4 height DEC rack (about 4 1/2 ft.). RSX-11 Operating System, Runoff Word Processor, VERY early Basic. Call me if you're serious. The price is right - and no charge for the dust. Bill Henry HAL Communications Corp. 367-7373 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- George W. (Bill) Henry Internet: ghenry@halcomm.com President WWW: halcomm.com HAL Communications Corp. Phone: 217-367-7373 1201 W. Kenyon Rd. FAX: 217-367-1701 Urbana, Illinois 61801 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Submissions: greenkeys@qth.net From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Jul 12 20:08:50 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Fw: [GreenKeys] PDP-11 Message-ID: <006e01c10b38$60f18680$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Forwarded from another list, contact originator direct please. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Henry" To: Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 6:58 AM Subject: [GreenKeys] PDP-11 > Anyone have the hots for a PDP-11/30 - circa 1980? It's sitting here in > Urbana, IL. Worked last time we used it - maybe 10 years ago. Includes > CRT terminal, 3 hard disk drives (the BIG drives) 2 floppy drives (also > BIG), 3/4 height DEC rack (about 4 1/2 ft.). RSX-11 Operating System, > Runoff Word Processor, VERY early Basic. > > Call me if you're serious. The price is right - and no charge for the dust. > > Bill Henry > HAL Communications Corp. > 367-7373 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- > George W. (Bill) Henry Internet: ghenry@halcomm.com > President WWW: halcomm.com > HAL Communications Corp. Phone: 217-367-7373 > 1201 W. Kenyon Rd. FAX: 217-367-1701 > Urbana, Illinois 61801 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- > > > ---- > Submissions: greenkeys@qth.net > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 12 20:14:34 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010713011434.27088.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gene Buckle wrote: > Actually I was able to get to the HanaHo site with no problems at all > after you posted the URL... I just wish they made a modular one that > had a spinning knob in it so I could play Tempest > *properly*. *laughs* I've torn apart an ancient Microsoft Mouse (it's > 10 years and *on topic*), mounted the guts upside-down on a block of wood with the X and Y shafts coming out the top, and turned it into a spinner. The advantage of the ancient mice is that the quadrature encoder is mechanical, not optical, and a discrete component. Much easier to mount than a toothed plastic wheel molded onto a plastic shaft. Plays Tempest and Star Trek very well under MAME. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 19:15:44 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <990.594T2200T756217optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >Incidentally, considering a PIC16F84 programmer can be made using a >couple of standard, cheap, chips linked to a PC printer port, I often >wonder why so few hackers seem to have one.... Any pointers to a nice project? How about GALs or PALs? >> noise on this damm list already and i've just added to it. Anybody know = >Actaully, I think this is 100% on-topic. It comes under 'restoration >techniques' or something like that. It is (and should be) OK to talk here >about modifying or converting modern parts to work with classic computers. Very much agreed. As long as it doesn't turn into a hex inverter vs. PIC flame war, which this seems to be heading towards. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 19:19:53 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: off topic stuff and flame wars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <442.594T2650T796523optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, bill claussen wrote: >> Chuckling, >> >> Apparently you are wanting to have a joust? >Take it outside, fellas :) But if there are any death threats, we're welcome again, right? >(no, but really...offlist) Oh, of course, Sellam. Netiquette is not nearly as on-topic as legal debates. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei. --- Leonardo da Vinci From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 19:39:03 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <929.594T150T993923optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>OTOH, a certain part of my interest in collecting classic computers has >>shifted over to collecting old video game systems and games, as that's >>something we can enjoy together. The scary thing with that is she's >>encouraging me to get a Neo Geo arcade machine! Anyone know of any cheap >>ones in the Portland, OR area? >What about running an emulator? I've heard from a couple people that are >building their own game kiosk based on PC emulation. Arcade games are quite an intensive experience, and emulations really can't live up to that experience. Besides, that would involve some rather expensive PC equipment anyway, not to mention the sensation of playing a mock-up every time. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music." David McMinn From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 21:11:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010712095341.01d2cb00@pc> Message-ID: <1077.594T2950T1916291optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 03:20 PM 7/12/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>John Foust skrev: >>>And why would they want them? Nothing's worse than being poor, >>>and given something worthless by someone who thinks it'll help you. >> >>Oh, come on, that's easy to say if you're from the rich world and have had >>computers for twenty years. Even I would rather have a 386 than no computer >>at all. >Giving them a small stack of money might help more, considering >they probably don't have electricity. (Average annual income in >Nigeria, $300 a year.) And the computer should come with software, >manuals (in a useful language) and training in how to use it. >And a printer, so they can make banners that say "Boy, I sure >am hungry." While the lack of electricity could be a problem, there are certainly parts of Africa where electricity and portable television sets aren't all that uncommon. Who knows, a million 386es might build up a cottage industry, so that Silicon valley might one day hire dirt-cheap African programmers instead of Indians. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 12 21:14:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <522.594T2250T1945419optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>It's too bad SNK went under a few months ago. Now who will tend to my 2D >>gaming interests? Arcade halls will never be the same again. =( >Say, what?!?!?! I know they pulled out of the US, but as far as I know >they're still alive and well in Japan. In fact they just released "Metal >Slug X" for the Playstation 1. I really hope I'm misinformed, then. Could be unprofessional journalism at work. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Life begins at '030. Fun begins at '040. Impotence begins at '86. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 12 21:02:32 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <929.594T150T993923optimus@canit.se> References: <929.594T150T993923optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Arcade games are quite an intensive experience, and emulations really can't >live up to that experience. Besides, that would involve some rather expensive >PC equipment anyway, not to mention the sensation of playing a mock-up every >time. MAME and other such emulations are great for those without the resources to actually posess the actual arcade cabinets. I for one would love to pick up an original Zaxxon machine but have nowhere to store such a beast. On a big screen monitor though, MAME comes pretty darned close, and since it's running the actual ROM code from the arcade machine, all the programming quirks are there even if some of the hardware quirks aren't. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 12 21:20:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to References: <990.594T2200T756217optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000f01c10b42$751768a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> GAL and PAL programming is quite on-topic, but will offer some real challenges, as the device manufacturers jealously guard some of the programming algorithms. I do, somewhere, have spec's for two GAL devices that were new in 1985, when I needed to be able to erase them if my device was subjected to various modes of tampering. Lattice did, indeed publish a spec for programming and erasing their 16V8 and 20V80 devices. Programming spec's are difficult to find, but, if you find 'em, they're probably not terribly difficult to implement. It's somewhat risky, as one reason for the quick upsurge in EEPROM based parts was that they weren't as easy to misprogram, which often happened with bipolar PALs even when they were just being verified. If you find programming algorithms, I suspect that there'll be several folks on this list interested in the programming spec's. Current devices are, in many cases, programmable "in situ" so there's no need for a device-specific programmer. Unfortunately there are precious FEW in-system programmable PAL-compatibles. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Tony Duell" Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 6:15 PM Subject: Re: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to > Tony Duell skrev: > > >Incidentally, considering a PIC16F84 programmer can be made using a > >couple of standard, cheap, chips linked to a PC printer port, I often > >wonder why so few hackers seem to have one.... > > Any pointers to a nice project? > How about GALs or PALs? > > >> noise on this damm list already and i've just added to it. Anybody know = > > >Actaully, I think this is 100% on-topic. It comes under 'restoration > >techniques' or something like that. It is (and should be) OK to talk here > >about modifying or converting modern parts to work with classic computers. > > Very much agreed. As long as it doesn't turn into a hex inverter vs. PIC flame > war, which this seems to be heading towards. =) > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build > bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce > bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. > -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project > > From cryhavoc_q at hotmail.com Thu Jul 12 21:24:42 2001 From: cryhavoc_q at hotmail.com (Andrew Kershaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX Message-ID: Hi folks! I'm a newbie - I just subscribed. ;-) I'm having some difficulty with a SPARCstation LX I rescued from the dumpster at work. It's got SunOS 4.1.3_UI installed on it, but it expects to find a server on a network. I can boot to the "#" prompt with "boot -s" but with autoboot the machine tries to find a server called "scanlab" on the TPE. It reports le0: No Carrier... and retries ad infinity. But what I really want to do is just install a fresh copy of Solaris 2.4. I've got a CD marked "Solaris 2.4 Hardware: 11/94" but I don't know if it is really the solaris install cd. Also, when i boot from the cdrom ("boot cdrom"), the system starts loading SunOS 5.4. But I get a warning immediately after the copyright appears. "Data transfer overrun" and it prints out "current esp states:" and lists several esp states.... (whatever those are)... The LX reboots from the default boot directory. I'm sorry that I'm such a newbie. This is my very first Sun machine and I'm very excited about getting it up and running, but I know nthing about it :-( I'm open to any suggestions that you folks might give me... Here's my setup: Sun SPARCstation LX, 48MB RAM, 450MB internal hd, external 411 hd (ID 1) - not sure of the capacity but I think it's ~500MB, and a Matsushita (LaCie rebranded) CD-R at ID 6. Thanks for being patient with me! Peace, Drew _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 12 21:32:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Ancient VMS and TU-58 progess In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706603B@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <20010713023231.40930.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> OK... first off, thanks to all and sundry who offered advice and assistance that has gotten me this far. Between PUTR and RD58.EXE, I have managed to copy a 4.2BSD tape (seems to have a disk formatter and exerciser on it), all four VMS 3.2 upgrade tapes and all 4 VMS 3.5 upgrade tapes. About 50% of my stuff does not read without some cleaning. The biggest problem has been where the internal rubber band has been resting up against the data surface for about 17 years. I suspect these tapes haven't spun since they were used to load a VAX-11/750 about that long ago. One sad note: one of my former cow-orkers reused one of the VMS 3.3 tapes, so that one is toast. Something seems to be up with my system where when it hits a bad spot on the tape, the drive doesn't return the entire block - typically only 410 bytes out of 538. This seems to confuse PUTR which executes an illegal instruction at that point. It doesn't confuse RD58, but it does cause it to timeout on that transfer. I have been mucking with RD58 and now have it retry after its 5 sec timeout, allowing me to pull the tape at the bad spot (since it is quiescent for a few sec.), examine the area and, typically, clean the rubber streak off of the tape with isopropanol. I have at least one tape that has not responded any better after trying, but it errors out on block 0, so I think I can rig things up to read blocks 1-511 and synthesize a new block 0 from another tape (changing the tape label to match the paper label). So now, if anyone manages to score the goodies to get up to VMS 3.1, we can at least go part of the way up from there. Until then, these are mere historical curiosities, but still worth the effort to recover. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jul 12 21:34:08 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Anyone with info on Cipher C8803 tape drives? References: <200107122106.XAA20179@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3B4E5E20.8E0F31C@internet1.net> It must have been a TC07 then, because I looked in the field guide and didn't find anything. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > I think the card was an Emulex UC07, or TC07, or something like that.... > > I don't know :-) > field-guide.txt: > UC07D Q Emulex single SCSI bus adaptor. > TC07 is not listed. > -- > > tsch??, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 12 21:58:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <522.594T2250T1945419optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 13, 2001 03:14:45 AM Message-ID: <200107130258.f6D2wqG27380@shell1.aracnet.com> > >>It's too bad SNK went under a few months ago. Now who will tend to my 2D > >>gaming interests? Arcade halls will never be the same again. =( > > >Say, what?!?!?! I know they pulled out of the US, but as far as I know > >they're still alive and well in Japan. In fact they just released "Metal > >Slug X" for the Playstation 1. > > I really hope I'm misinformed, then. Could be unprofessional journalism at > work. I hope so also, but in all honesty it's a nightmare to find any Neo Geo info, so who knows. Just found a place in England selling 6-slot cabinets for about $300, now why can't I find that locally! Zane From rnlion at its.caltech.edu Thu Jul 12 22:00:53 2001 From: rnlion at its.caltech.edu (Rob Lion) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? Message-ID: Hey all, I have (at home) an old Apple II of some sort that I picked up for free from my high school a few years back. The thing that attracted me to it was the partially wooden case that it was in, which I thought was pretty snazzy. I took some pictures a while ago, and finally got around to putting them up on a website: http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~rnlion/comp/apple.html I'd like to know a bit more about this system, so if any of you Apple enthusiasts could take a look and let me know if you've ever seen anything like it, that would be great. Thanks, Rob Lion From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Jul 12 22:28:15 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: All this PLATO talk got me going... Message-ID: <006d01c10b4b$da9a90e0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi Well all this Plato talk has got me excited... I am still looking for screen shot of my favorite stuff on the system like Dogfight and Airfight and if I would find some references to some of the stuff I wrote (like my Space Attack game) I would go nuts. I have decided to contact some people here at the Quebec network of Universities in hope on finding some Plato stuff....The Plato system was used a lot by universites in Quebec in the early 80s. Thats when I spent most of my time on the system...too much time...writing stuff in tutor....also might enjoy finding the plato terminal emulator for PC (I know it existed because I used it...) and maybe some micro-tutor/plato stuff....even if I never used micro-plato/tutor... I might even find an old terminal in one of the college basements somewhere maybe...or even listings....I actually had the whole Airfight listing here at one point and was gonna translate it to french and abandonned the project...listing went into the garbage...like a lot of the stuff I wrote when I was younger...now I regret.... Even had some CDC/Plato docs that I threw out long time ago...hey, I was younger.... Here is some stuff I found...about micro plato... Correct. The CDC-110 Micro Plato Station consisted of a CDC IST-2 or IST-3 terminal connected via a proprietary bus to a box containing its own Z80 and an 8" DSDD floppy; the IST (containing its own 64K RAM and Z80) acted as a terminal, while the actual CP/M crunching took place on the Z80 within the disk-drive cabinet. I worked for many years at the City Colleges of Chicago, which used the PLATO computers at the University of Illinois (and still uses PLATO's descendent, NovaNET). During the '80s, we had a couple hundred IST terminals, most of which were "naked" and connected only to the PLATO system, but some of which were CDC-110s with disk drives and ran mostly Micro-TORTURE :-) lessons. The Micro-PLATO stuff didn't last long, mostly due to the hassle of sucking down a disk's worth of lessons from the central system over a 1200-bps circuit. Don Piven - Chicago IL Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector or http://computer_collector.tripod.com From terryc at woa.com.au Thu Jul 12 22:23:49 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:40 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX References: Message-ID: <3B4E69C5.4EC2A9EA@woa.com.au> Andrew Kershaw wrote: > > Hi folks! > > I'm a newbie - I just subscribed. ;-) > > I'm having some difficulty with a SPARCstation LX I rescued from the > dumpster at work. It's got SunOS 4.1.3_UI installed on it, but it expects > to find a server on a network. I can boot to the "#" prompt with "boot -s" > but with autoboot the machine tries to find a server called "scanlab" on the > TPE. It reports le0: No Carrier... and retries ad infinity. There might be some useful info here http://www.woa.com.au/terryc/hardware/sparc/ and on some of the links. Or best http://www.obsolyte.com -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Thu Jul 12 23:02:45 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife References: <929.594T150T993923optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001501c10b50$ad6bd8e0$88f8fea9@98box> The actual experience doesn't quite compare though, in the case of a game like Gauntlet where one could insert infinite "virtual" quarters and get all the life they want. I have a homebuilt MAME cabinet, wired to a coin box, i think the experience is better, plus i can rip off alll my game-loving friends. -Lanny ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Hellige To: Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 11:32 PM Subject: Re: Collecting vs. My Wife > >Arcade games are quite an intensive experience, and emulations really can't > >live up to that experience. Besides, that would involve some rather expensive > >PC equipment anyway, not to mention the sensation of playing a mock-up every > >time. > > MAME and other such emulations are great for those without > the resources to actually posess the actual arcade cabinets. I for > one would love to pick up an original Zaxxon machine but have nowhere > to store such a beast. On a big screen monitor though, MAME comes > pretty darned close, and since it's running the actual ROM code from > the arcade machine, all the programming quirks are there even if some > of the hardware quirks aren't. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jul 12 23:32:32 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107122303.f6CN30s14744@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200107130432.VAA02635@mail.telisphere.com> On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:03:00 -0700 (PDT), Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Actually I was able to get to the HanaHo site with no problems at >>all >> after you posted the URL. The Hotrod IS very cool. You hit one >>of the > >Hanaho isn't the manufacturer of the Hotrod is it? > As far as I know they are. g. -- http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 12 23:38:39 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Historically interesting (?) 'scope - and the winner is.... In-Reply-To: <000001c10b2c$84390340$0301a8c0@bob> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Bob Stek wrote: > Well, Steve Ciarcia's Heathkit IO-105 has been won. It was a tough > choice amongst the many and varied entries. I lost a little sleep > worrying about whether or not I had made the right choice. But to give > everyone who entered this contest their due, let me list the runners up > before announcing the BIG winner: > > First and fastest offer - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks > Best CP/M related offer - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks > Best 8080-code compatible offer - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks > Best hardware offer (general) - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks > Best hardware offer (CPU) - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks > Best computer related item ever mentioned in a computer magazine - NEC > V-20 from Ethan Dicks > Last offer - NEC V-20 from Ethan Dicks > > ... And the BIG winner of this fabulous fuse-blowing marvel is - NEC > V-20 from Ethan Dicks Wow! I'm impressed, Bob. Solomon lives!!! :-) - don > Congratulations, Ethan! This 'scope is now yours and the faster I can > get it out of my basement, the better. > > Bob Stek > Saver of Lost Sols > > > > > From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 12 23:57:30 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: All this PLATO talk got me going... In-Reply-To: <006d01c10b4b$da9a90e0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Claude.W wrote: > Hi > > Well all this Plato talk has got me excited... > > I am still looking for screen shot of my favorite stuff on the system like > Dogfight and Airfight and if I would find some references to some of the > stuff I wrote (like my Space Attack game) I would go nuts. > > I have decided to contact some people here at the Quebec network of > Universities in hope on finding some Plato stuff....The Plato system was > used a lot by universites in Quebec in the early 80s. Thats when I spent > most of my time on the system...too much time...writing stuff in > tutor....also might enjoy finding the plato terminal emulator for PC (I know > it existed because I used it...) and maybe some micro-tutor/plato > stuff....even if I never used micro-plato/tutor... > > I might even find an old terminal in one of the college basements somewhere > maybe...or even listings....I actually had the whole Airfight listing here > at one point and was gonna translate it to french and abandonned the > project...listing went into the garbage...like a lot of the stuff I wrote > when I was younger...now I regret.... > > Even had some CDC/Plato docs that I threw out long time ago...hey, I was > younger.... > > Here is some stuff I found...about micro plato... > > Correct. The CDC-110 Micro Plato Station consisted of a CDC IST-2 or IST-3 > terminal connected via a proprietary bus to a box containing its own Z80 and > an 8" DSDD floppy; the IST (containing its own 64K RAM and Z80) acted as a > terminal, while the actual CP/M crunching took place on the Z80 within the > disk-drive cabinet. Well, id anyone comes up with an operable CDC-110, I can provide the following 8" disks for it: CDC-110 Viking Name Format Description CD110DIA DSDD8 CP/M 2.2 diagnostics disk CD110SYS DSDD8 CP/M 2.2 system disk CDC-PLAT DSDD8 non CP/M Plato control software & instructional - don > I worked for many years at the City Colleges of Chicago, which used the > PLATO > computers at the University of Illinois (and still uses PLATO's descendent, > NovaNET). During the '80s, we had a couple hundred IST terminals, most of > which were "naked" and connected only to the PLATO system, but some of which > were CDC-110s with disk drives and ran mostly Micro-TORTURE :-) lessons. > The > Micro-PLATO stuff didn't last long, mostly due to the hassle of sucking down > a > disk's worth of lessons from the central system over a 1200-bps circuit. > > Don Piven - Chicago IL > > > Claude > http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector > or > http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > > From chobbs at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 12 23:57:02 2001 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (charles hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: DAK (was: Re: X-10 (was Re: controlling power) References: <3.0.32.20010709071305.022782d0@costanzo.net> <20010709120553.F7351@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B4E7F9E.FD3D087E@socal.rr.com> Bill Bradford wrote: > On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 07:13:05AM -0700, Lance Costanzo wrote: > > According to this guy, who worked with X10 from the early days, > > RS was the 1st US market. BSR came later. > > Whatever happened to BSR, and then that other company I kept > getting catalogs from with techy-type stuff? DAK maybe? DAK has come back, sort of . http://www.dak.com/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 12 23:10:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Do you get the mini-assembler if you have a language card, load > integer BASIC into the language card (IIRC DOS 3.3 does this > automatically at boot up), and then select integer BASIC? Yes, I believe so. But I can't remember if it is a separate module you must load to get the mini-assembler. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 12 23:12:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <002d01c10b20$00f1f340$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I have no desire to get Sellam started again. Haha. This is like the asshole asking who farted. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 12 23:22:31 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: References: <3B4D074C.8C5B6848@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Jul 11, 1 10:11:25 pm Message-ID: >Actually, as a learning system I'd recomend an Apple ][ or ][+ over a >//e. The reason is that the //e has 2 custom gate array chips (MMU and I agree, but finding one of the older apples isn't as easy as it used to be. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 12 23:29:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: References: <645.593T2750T9206411optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 12, 1 03:20:55 pm Message-ID: >And I could certainly write useful programs on it to support my hardware >hacking type projects. > >And I could certainly do useful work on just about any unix box, however >old. That includes all 386+ PCs that can run linux. > >But most people can't. They can't write special software (which generally The secret of sell ing older computers in the third world (Yorkshire?) is not to give a rodents back side about copyrights and just fill the hard drive with a package of the best stuff that runs on the machine. Too much work to get one or two machines going unless you had nothing else to do, but a trivial task if you plan on selling containers of older computers. Even an old computer is 100% better than no computer, and for strict business uses 386 and 486 machines work just fine. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 13 00:23:26 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Hey all, > >I have (at home) an old Apple II of some sort that I picked up for free >from my high school a few years back. The thing that attracted me to it >was the partially wooden case that it was in, which I thought was pretty >snazzy. I took some pictures a while ago, and finally got around to >putting them up on a website: >http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~rnlion/comp/apple.html Pretty box, but for us to make any comment you need to show the INSIDES, not the outside. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 13 00:01:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <929.594T150T993923optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >>What about running an emulator? I've heard from a couple people that are >>building their own game kiosk based on PC emulation. > >Arcade games are quite an intensive experience, and emulations really can't >live up to that experience. Besides, that would involve some rather expensive >PC equipment anyway, not to mention the sensation of playing a mock-up every >time. The good emulations look EXACTLY like the original games, because they actually run the original rom code. Fancy controllers and building kiosks just make the illusion complete. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 12 23:46:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107122147.f6CLl1K10983@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Gene Buckle" at Jul 12, 2001 01:08:09 PM Message-ID: >OTOH, I think I know which solution my wife wants. I just got an email from >her, she's apparently been calling around and has found a place locally that >gets Neo Geo Arcade machines in from time to time, and has left our name and >number with them. Which just might get this back on topic for this thread :^) Use some caution, more than few "arcade" stores will rip you off without mercy. (mostly very inflated prices). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 13 00:39:47 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Coin boxes In-Reply-To: <001501c10b50$ad6bd8e0$88f8fea9@98box> References: <929.594T150T993923optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >The actual experience doesn't quite compare though, in the case of a game >like Gauntlet where one could insert infinite "virtual" quarters and get all >the life they want. I have a homebuilt MAME cabinet, wired to a coin box, i >think the experience is better, plus i can rip off alll my game-loving >friends. Half a dozen brand new coin boxes showed up recently at a surplus joint I visit, any interest? From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 13 00:51:37 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 12, 2001 09:10:01 pm" Message-ID: <200107130551.WAA16050@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Do you get the mini-assembler if you have a language card, load > > integer BASIC into the language card (IIRC DOS 3.3 does this > > automatically at boot up), and then select integer BASIC? > > Yes, I believe so. But I can't remember if it is a separate module you > must load to get the mini-assembler. I'm pretty sure it's there in the same file as intbasic Eric From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 01:01:39 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife References: <200107120029.f6C0TAo09802@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <013601c10b61$491794e0$1101f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> My wife lets me put anything I want in my half of the garage. Thus, my car is on the driveway. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 13 01:38:19 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Coin boxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Half a dozen brand new coin boxes showed up recently at a surplus joint I > visit, any interest? Definitely! I'd like to use one to create a coin-operated doorbell or a coin-operated gate opener! :-) ...of course, for the later, perhaps it would need to accept tokens that could be given to the mailman. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Thu Jul 12 11:04:08 2001 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment Message-ID: <20010713083948.56EB536F3C@pandora.worldonline.nl> The uVax1000 is for real time purposes. A uVax II with a level of memory management removed. Ran typically VaxEln. Last year I desperately needed one to expand an industrial control application. We found one. Wim ---------- > From: Netdiablo > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: MicroVAX equipment > Date: Thursday, July 12, 2001 5:32 AM > > > It's been nearly a decade since I really dealt with MicroVAXen, > > but I came across a guy who has the following: > > > > MicroVAX 3600 > > uVAX 1000 > > RA81 (2) > > RA90 > > What on earth is a uVAX 1000? I've never heard of that before. I'm > rather curious to know! > > > and some miscellaneous cards, in four cabinets. He got them > > in as part of a truckload of de-installed equipment and doesn't > > have any idea what they're worth. I'm at a loss as to what to > > offer for them, other than (of course) the lowest possible price. > > > > Any ideas on the going rate for this type of DEC equipment? > > In all honesty, the whole lot is really worth less than $100, unless > the MicroVAX 3600 has some really nifty equipment (like a SCSI card) > in it, or that uVAX 1000 is something special, as I really don't know > what that is. > > I'm a little vague on what a RA90 is, but I know the RA81s are huge > drives, and they should probably consider themselves lucky if you're > willing to haul them away! > > > He's also got a DEC MicroServer and some VT 510's. > > VT510s are rather new terminals; they're not actually DEC designed. > These are "technically" probably worth a little bit on the terminal > market, since they're not more than a few years old (probably). On > the used market, however, how much is a relatively standard terminal > worth? > > > The guy was nice enough to give me an RL02K-DC removable > > disk pack (since he didn't know what it was or what it worked > > in), so he seems easy to deal with. (The disk pack did not > > come with the MicroVAX stuff.) > > --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 13 04:53:16 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Coin boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: >> Half a dozen brand new coin boxes showed up recently at a surplus joint I >> visit, any interest? > >Definitely! I'd like to use one to create a coin-operated doorbell or >a coin-operated gate opener! :-) ...of course, for the later, perhaps >it would need to accept tokens that could be given to the mailman. I will get the details next week, and post again. These were units to be used as replacements in a campus parking system, and a quick quess is that they weigh around 10 lbs each. From owad at applefritter.com Fri Jul 13 07:11:25 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010713121125.26313@mail.earthlink.net> >I have (at home) an old Apple II of some sort that I picked up for free >from my high school a few years back. The thing that attracted me to it >was the partially wooden case that it was in, which I thought was pretty >snazzy. I took some pictures a while ago, and finally got around to >putting them up on a website: >http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~rnlion/comp/apple.html > >I'd like to know a bit more about this system, so if any of you Apple >enthusiasts could take a look and let me know if you've ever seen anything >like it, that would be great. Apple did sell Apple II's as just boards, the price difference being $500, so it's certainly possible somebody made their own cases or even did a small production run. Like Mike said, pictures of the inside would be really helpful. It might be a clone. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From pechter at bg-tc-ppp724.monmouth.com Fri Jul 13 07:15:14 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp724.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX In-Reply-To: from Andrew Kershaw at "Jul 13, 2001 02:24:42 am" Message-ID: <200107131215.f6DCFEg10544@bg-tc-ppp724.monmouth.com> > Hi folks! > > I'm a newbie - I just subscribed. ;-) > > I'm having some difficulty with a SPARCstation LX I rescued from the > dumpster at work. It's got SunOS 4.1.3_UI installed on it, but it expects > to find a server on a network. I can boot to the "#" prompt with "boot -s" > but with autoboot the machine tries to find a server called "scanlab" on the > TPE. It reports le0: No Carrier... and retries ad infinity. OK... the OS is intact. There's two problems here: The ethernet le0 is not connected to the network and it's trying to connect. The No Carrier problem possibly be fixed by removing /etc/defaultrouter and /etc/defaultdomain -- so it doesn't try to start the network at boot. /etc/fstab may be trying to mount disks from a server over NFS and it may be set for yp (nis) for password authentication from a server. > > But what I really want to do is just install a fresh copy of Solaris 2.4. > I've got a CD marked "Solaris 2.4 Hardware: 11/94" but I don't know if it is > really the solaris install cd. > Ugh. Solaris 2.4 was no bargain... I wouldn't use anything less than 2.5. I'd probably try 2.6. On IPX's and Sparc2's I'd prefer the SunOS 4.1.3_U1. The LX should (iirc) run Solaris 8 as well. I believe the architecture is Sun4m rather than Sun4c. > Also, when i boot from the cdrom ("boot cdrom"), the system starts loading > SunOS 5.4. But I get a warning immediately after the copyright appears. > "Data transfer overrun" and it prints out "current esp states:" and lists > several esp states.... (whatever those are)... Sounds like scsi termination or cable problems. Does your CD drive do 512 byte sectors instead of 2k. To install on a Sun or Vax is has to. > I'm sorry that I'm such a newbie. This is my very first Sun machine and I'm > very excited about getting it up and running, but I know nthing about it :-( No problem. > > I'm open to any suggestions that you folks might give me... > > Here's my setup: > Sun SPARCstation LX, 48MB RAM, 450MB internal hd, external 411 hd (ID 1) - > not sure of the capacity but I think it's ~500MB, and a Matsushita (LaCie > rebranded) CD-R at ID 6. Sounds like it could be the CD. I know many Teac's, Toshibas and Sony's can do 512bytes/sector. I've got a couple of Sun compatible CD drives if you need them. BTW -- the LX will take standard 72 pin true parity simms if you want to update the memory. I've got an IPX which tops out at 64mb... > > Thanks for being patient with me! > Peace, > Drew No problem. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 13 09:42:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX In-Reply-To: <200107131215.f6DCFEg10544@bg-tc-ppp724.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > Hi folks! > > > > I'm a newbie - I just subscribed. ;-) > > > > I'm having some difficulty with a SPARCstation LX I rescued from the > > dumpster at work. It's got SunOS 4.1.3_UI installed on it, but it expects > > to find a server on a network. I can boot to the "#" prompt with "boot -s" > > Ugh. > Solaris 2.4 was no bargain... I wouldn't use anything less than 2.5. > I'd probably try 2.6. On IPX's and Sparc2's I'd prefer the SunOS > 4.1.3_U1. Agreed. For a flood of reasons, I'd consider 2.5.1 to be the baseline for experimenting with old Solaris unless you are aiming for something historical. > The LX should (iirc) run Solaris 8 as well. I believe the > architecture is Sun4m rather than Sun4c. It is and it will. My main server at home was an LX until the SCSI died; now it' a Classic (same basic internals, lower-end audio and video than an LX). > > I'm open to any suggestions that you folks might give me... > > > > Here's my setup: > > Sun SPARCstation LX, 48MB RAM, 450MB internal hd, external 411 hd (ID 1) - > > not sure of the capacity but I think it's ~500MB, and a Matsushita (LaCie > > rebranded) CD-R at ID 6. > > BTW -- the LX will take standard 72 pin true parity simms > if you want to update the memory. You can also stuff a pair of 32Mb 72-pin parity SIMMs in the first bank (it's all done in pairs), giving you a maximum of 128Mb on a Classic or LX. Mine has 2 x 32Mb + 2 x 16Mb + 2 x 4Mb for a total of 108Mb. That and a couple of 9Mb SCSI-narrow drives and it hums along nicely under Solaris 7. It will never set any speed records, to be sure. It's about the same level of responsiveness as a SPARC2 or IPX even though it's a 50Mhz MicroSparcII chip (QFP soldered, no upgrade possible, unlike the SPARC2 and IPX), but the big benefit is that it is sun4m and has a longer useful life if you don't need to wring any speed out of it. The next rung up on the ladder is a SPARC5 70Mhz. Those are nearly at "haul them away" status, but they take SCA connector drives internally, have a short CD-ROM bay, etc. There is a suns-at-home list that people with personal SPARC hardware might consider joining. General information about the mailing list is at: http://www.net-kitchen.com/mailman/listinfo/suns-at-home -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 13 09:50:25 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706603B@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <20010713145025.88546.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:04:08 +0200 "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > The uVax1000 is for real time purposes. A uVax II with a level of memory > management removed. Ran typically VaxEln. Last year I desperately needed > one to expand an industrial control application. We found one. > > Wim How many zeros in "desperatly"? I've heard of VAXeln; I don't remember anything about a uVAX1000 in particular, but I have a foggy memory that DEC did sell stripped hardware that would run VAXeln but not VMS. It wasn't cheap enough to be wildly popular, ISTR. I don't think I heard much of anything outside of DECUS symposia. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com Fri Jul 13 10:40:58 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 13, 2001 07:42:31 am" Message-ID: <200107131540.f6DFewO11034@bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com> > The next rung up on the ladder is a SPARC5 70Mhz. Those are nearly at "haul > them away" status, but they take SCA connector drives internally, have a > short CD-ROM bay, etc. > > There is a suns-at-home list that people with personal SPARC hardware might > consider joining. General information about the mailing list is at: > > http://www.net-kitchen.com/mailman/listinfo/suns-at-home > > > -ethan Well, If I ever find an LX or Classic or Sparc5 at haul it away prices I'll laugh all the way home to my CD collection. I've been unable to find them cheap enough around here. (NJ) My department still ran Sparc5's and 20's at Lucent last year. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From cryhavoc_q at hotmail.com Fri Jul 13 10:44:13 2001 From: cryhavoc_q at hotmail.com (Andrew Kershaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX Message-ID: Thanks for the info everyone! Yeah, I understand that Solaris 2.5.1 is probably better, but I can only get my hands on 2.4 or 8. And I want to install OpenStep 1.0 (for sentimental reasons) on top of Solaris. I understand that OpenStep for Solaris doesn't work with anything newer than 2.5... Also, I've got a ton of 72 pin SIMMs sitting around (well over 128MB worth) pulled from 68k and PPC 601 Macintoshes... So I'm not concerned about the memory. I dunno if they are parity or not, though. Macs don't care... Any way I can tell by looking at the SIMMs? Nah, I'm not looking for a speed deamon here. I know I won't be setting any records or anything. I just want a chance to get an older box up and running so when I'm at school I can proudly say: "Look at this! I got an LX from a dumpster, put Solaris 2.4 and OpenStep 1 on it, and now I'm running OmniWeb 2.5!" *grin* Well... first I'd like to get it running... ;-) In the meantime, I'll be looking for an older CD-ROM drive that will do 512 byte blocks. It seems people here are correct - the Matshita CD-R i have probably is the problem. I just succesfully started a Solaris 2.4 installation on an LX here at work for a co-worker... He's not sticking with Solaris though, he'll be moving to a Mandrake Linux distro. Question about the audio: It's 44kHz 16bit stereo, right? Any chance I can play MP3s? :-D heh.... 50MHz is a bit slow for 128kbps audio I imagine. But it's worth a try just for the heck of it, right? Peace, Drew P.S. I'm sure I'll have more difficulties ;-) I'll write again once I locate a CD-ROM which can do 512byte blocks ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ethan Dicks Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:42:31 -0700 (PDT) [snip] > Ugh. > Solaris 2.4 was no bargain... I wouldn't use anything less than 2.5. > I'd probably try 2.6. On IPX's and Sparc2's I'd prefer the SunOS > 4.1.3_U1. Agreed. For a flood of reasons, I'd consider 2.5.1 to be the baseline for experimenting with old Solaris unless you are aiming for something historical. [snip] You can also stuff a pair of 32Mb 72-pin parity SIMMs in the first bank (it's all done in pairs), giving you a maximum of 128Mb on a Classic or LX. Mine has 2 x 32Mb + 2 x 16Mb + 2 x 4Mb for a total of 108Mb. That and a couple of 9Mb SCSI-narrow drives and it hums along nicely under Solaris 7. It will never set any speed records, to be sure. It's about the same level of responsiveness as a SPARC2 or IPX even though it's a 50Mhz MicroSparcII chip (QFP soldered, no upgrade possible, unlike the SPARC2 and IPX), but the big benefit is that it is sun4m and has a longer useful life if you don't need to wring any speed out of it. [snip] -ethan _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jul 13 11:01:08 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107131540.f6DFewO11034@bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com> References: <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010713110108.0089c850@ubanproductions.com> I run a sparc IPX with NetBSD as my firewall. I use the serial console so that I don't have to have a big non-multisync monitor and/or extra keyboard/mouse pair sitting on my desk. The box is plenty fast enough for a firewall and it sits there running quitely month after month, quite happy. It is on a UPS:-) --tom At 11:40 AM 7/13/01 -0400, you wrote: >> The next rung up on the ladder is a SPARC5 70Mhz. Those are nearly at "haul >> them away" status, but they take SCA connector drives internally, have a >> short CD-ROM bay, etc. >> >> There is a suns-at-home list that people with personal SPARC hardware might >> consider joining. General information about the mailing list is at: >> >> http://www.net-kitchen.com/mailman/listinfo/suns-at-home >> >> >> -ethan > >Well, If I ever find an LX or Classic or Sparc5 at haul it away >prices I'll laugh all the way home to my CD collection. > >I've been unable to find them cheap enough around here. (NJ) >My department still ran Sparc5's and 20's at Lucent last year. > >Bill > >--- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > > From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 11:41:45 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107131540.f6DFewO11034@bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 13, 2001 11:40:58 AM Message-ID: <200107131641.f6DGfkH17412@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > The next rung up on the ladder is a SPARC5 70Mhz. Those are nearly at "haul > > them away" status, but they take SCA connector drives internally, have a > > short CD-ROM bay, etc. > > > > There is a suns-at-home list that people with personal SPARC hardware might > > consider joining. General information about the mailing list is at: > > > > http://www.net-kitchen.com/mailman/listinfo/suns-at-home > > > > > > -ethan > > Well, If I ever find an LX or Classic or Sparc5 at haul it away > prices I'll laugh all the way home to my CD collection. > > I've been unable to find them cheap enough around here. (NJ) > My department still ran Sparc5's and 20's at Lucent last year. I wouldn't mind a SS20 at haul-away prices, even without CPUs. I've got a bunch of CPUs, just no box to put them in. How expensive is a CPU-less Sparc Ultra? I can get a cheap 360u CPU if I can get a cheap system without CPU. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 13 12:06:29 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151332@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Plays Tempest and Star Trek very well under MAME. The ROM for TEMPEST is available, and there's an emulator??? I've been making do with ARASHI on the Mac for 10 years, and I coulda had the real thing? Any links? -dq From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 13 12:07:44 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107131641.f6DGfkH17412@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200107131540.f6DFewO11034@bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 13, 2001 11:40:58 AM Message-ID: >I wouldn't mind a SS20 at haul-away prices, even without CPUs. >I've got a bunch of CPUs, just no box to put them in. The SS20 chassis themselves can be found in the $100-200 range, not to bad, it's when you start adding the rest of the parts they get expensive. I got "lucky" for $150 I got the chassis, 2 SM71's, and the internal CD-ROM. Plus I already had a good stash of S-Bus cards, and a couple drive brackets (from my SS5/70). So I only really had to add RAM, and I already had 16MB so I could test it. >How expensive is a CPU-less Sparc Ultra? I can get a cheap >360u CPU if I can get a cheap system without CPU. What chassis? An Ultra 2 Chassis still goes for big bucks. Me, I need an Ultra 2 case and CPU's, I've got a Motherboard with a dead Ethernet connection. I'd love a nice loaded Ultra 2, that would make a *really* nice home UNIX box! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 13 12:08:51 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Anyone with info on Cipher C8803 tape drives? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151333@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On 12 Jul, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > It better be Pertec and not SCSI! > SCSI is one 50 pin connector, Pertec uses two 50 pin connectors. > > > If it were SCSI that would mean I just gave away a Qbus SCSI card.... > > I think I would shoot myself :-) > Happy suicide! ;-) > > > I think the card was an Emulex UC07, or TC07, or something like that.... > > I don't know :-) > field-guide.txt: > UC07D Q Emulex single SCSI bus adaptor. Chad- Bummer, man! -dq From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 12:42:48 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 13, 2001 10:07:44 AM Message-ID: <200107131742.f6DHgmp17605@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I wouldn't mind a SS20 at haul-away prices, even without CPUs. > >I've got a bunch of CPUs, just no box to put them in. > > The SS20 chassis themselves can be found in the $100-200 range, not to bad, > it's when you start adding the rest of the parts they get expensive. I got > "lucky" for $150 I got the chassis, 2 SM71's, and the internal CD-ROM. > Plus I already had a good stash of S-Bus cards, and a couple drive brackets > (from my SS5/70). So I only really had to add RAM, and I already had 16MB > so I could test it. I've got all the other bits, I just need an empty box. > >How expensive is a CPU-less Sparc Ultra? I can get a cheap > >360u CPU if I can get a cheap system without CPU. > > What chassis? An Ultra 2 Chassis still goes for big bucks. Me, I need an > Ultra 2 case and CPU's, I've got a Motherboard with a dead Ethernet > connection. I'd love a nice loaded Ultra 2, that would make a *really* > nice home UNIX box! I don't know; whatever one a 360u card works in. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 13 12:44:30 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX In-Reply-To: <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com>; from ethan_dicks@yahoo.com on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:31AM -0700 References: <200107131215.f6DCFEg10544@bg-tc-ppp724.monmouth.com> <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010713124430.C1407@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:31AM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > There is a suns-at-home list that people with personal SPARC hardware might > consider joining. General information about the mailing list is at: > http://www.net-kitchen.com/mailman/listinfo/suns-at-home Suns-at-home isnt very active at all. You might want to consider one of the SunHELP lists instead: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/sunhelp (general Sun help) http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue (emphasis on rescuing older Sun stuff; similar to this list) And, of course, http://www.sunhelp.org. I have no "vested interest", I just happen to run all of the above. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 13 12:46:43 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151332@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>; from dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 01:06:29PM -0400 References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151332@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010713124643.E1407@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 01:06:29PM -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > The ROM for TEMPEST is available, and there's an > emulator??? > I've been making do with ARASHI on the Mac for > 10 years, and I coulda had the real thing? > Any links? Even better: http://games.lasers.org/ MAME. Tempest. Laser Projecter. Awww yeah. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jul 13 13:08:07 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151332@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: > > Plays Tempest and Star Trek very well under MAME. > > The ROM for TEMPEST is available, and there's an > emulator??? > > I've been making do with ARASHI on the Mac for > 10 years, and I coulda had the real thing? > > Any links? > Ummm. Check out http://www.hanaho.com and hit the links button. MAME does Tempest very well. There was an article on Slashdot many months back about a couple of guys that wrote drivers for a laser show controller. They proceeded to play Tempest on the side of a 5 story building. It was VERY cool. :) g. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 13 13:15:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107131540.f6DFewO11034@bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010713181531.23441.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > The next rung up on the ladder is a SPARC5 70Mhz. Those are nearly at > > "haul them away" status... > > Well, If I ever find an LX or Classic or Sparc5 at haul it away > prices I'll laugh all the way home to my CD collection. My only "haul-it-away" LX died. I replaced it with a Classic I got from Ohio State surplus when they had a pallet of them earlier this year (no, I didn't buy the entire pallet, just a couple). They were diskless, had 16Mb of RAM (4 x 4Mb), password locked and booted off the network. I was able to turn my box into a diskless server off of the CD-ROM drive and get the Classics to a root prompt and clear the password with the eeprom command. > I've been unable to find them cheap enough around here. (NJ) > My department still ran Sparc5's and 20's at Lucent last year. I found out that a my old Lucent cube, they just turned off my SPARC5/110 and moved it last week. I left in March, 1999. Nobody ever took my place when my contract ran out. I'm waiting until I can find a usable SPARC5 under $300 (monitor not included - I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! - stuff with 13W3 connectors goes cheap) I passed a fellow at Dayton with a pair of SPARC5/80s with unknown amounts of RAM and disk; he paid under $200 for both. That's the kind of deal I'm looking for. I already have the skinny CD-ROM drive. I have one in my Bomac tower on my Amiga 2000 I use to test GG2 Bus+ boards. Works great on an A2091, and fits in the last open space on the front of the tower. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jul 13 13:18:14 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Anyone with info on Cipher C8803 tape drives? References: <200107122106.XAA20179@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3B4E5E20.8E0F31C@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3B4F3B66.177C0C9D@idirect.com> >Chad Fernandez wrote: > It must have been a TC07 then, because I looked in the field guide and > didn't find anything. > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA Jerome Fine replies: Then I am pleased you will not have to shoot yourself.! I think I also have a TC07, but I am going to make it difficult. I also have the tape drive and if anyone wants it, they also have to take the tape drive - and no shipping available - pickup ONLY in Toronto. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 13 13:16:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to In-Reply-To: <990.594T2200T756217optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 13, 1 01:15:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1817 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010713/c8515eff/attachment.ksh From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1382.monmouth.com Fri Jul 13 13:33:21 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1382.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <20010713181531.23441.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 13, 2001 11:15:31 am" Message-ID: <200107131833.f6DIXLp11600@bg-tc-ppp1382.monmouth.com> > I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! - stuff > with 13W3 connectors goes cheap) I passed a fellow at Dayton with a pair > of SPARC5/80s with unknown amounts of RAM and disk; he paid under $200 for > both. That's the kind of deal I'm looking for. I already have the skinny > CD-ROM drive. I have one in my Bomac tower on my Amiga 2000 I use to test > GG2 Bus+ boards. Works great on an A2091, and fits in the last open space > on the front of the tower. > > -ethan Sounds pretty good... I'd go for a cheap Sparc10 or 20 in a minute so I can have one Solaris 8 box up at home. I'm getting the Vax running this weekend and need to add AIX and HP-UX to keep current. I wish I can find Ultrix-32 for the Vax. I'm going to look for Linux Decnet... bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 13 13:51:34 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107131833.f6DIXLp11600@bg-tc-ppp1382.monmouth.com> References: <20010713181531.23441.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 13, 2001 11:15:31 am" Message-ID: >> I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! - stuff I WISH!!!! I've been looking for working Sun Monitors around here and they aren't to be found! I can't even find a working GDM-1962, though I've found 4 dead ones! Anyone know if you can hook a IBM P200 up to a Sparc? IIRC, the 13W3 pinout is different. I recently got one and have it hooked up to my Linux box. I love the P200's, I've also got one on my Linux box at work. >I wish I can find Ultrix-32 for the Vax. >I'm going to look for Linux Decnet... Get the Ancient UNIX License, IIRC, the PUPS archive has Ultrix-32. Remember though, it's a VAX, it *SHOULD* be running OpenVMS!!! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1382.monmouth.com Fri Jul 13 14:01:58 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1382.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jul 13, 2001 11:51:34 am" Message-ID: <200107131901.f6DJ1xt11730@bg-tc-ppp1382.monmouth.com> > >> I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! - stuff > > I WISH!!!! I've been looking for working Sun Monitors around here and they > aren't to be found! I can't even find a working GDM-1962, though I've > found 4 dead ones! > > Anyone know if you can hook a IBM P200 up to a Sparc? IIRC, the 13W3 > pinout is different. I recently got one and have it hooked up to my Linux > box. I love the P200's, I've also got one on my Linux box at work. > > >I wish I can find Ultrix-32 for the Vax. > >I'm going to look for Linux Decnet... > > Get the Ancient UNIX License, IIRC, the PUPS archive has Ultrix-32. > Remember though, it's a VAX, it *SHOULD* be running OpenVMS!!! > > Zane > -- I've got a P17. If anyone has a cable adapter pinout please post them. I'd kill for one for my VaxStation and Sparc. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From ljcst18+ at pitt.edu Fri Jul 13 14:50:05 2001 From: ljcst18+ at pitt.edu (Lucas J Cashdollar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Free to good home a franklin pc 8000 Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have this franklin pc 8000 computer. It works. If no one takes it i'll have to take it out back and beat it with a baseball bat. I'm in the pittsburgh area and I have to get it out storage at work. Luke From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 13 14:50:45 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010713195045.21761.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >> I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! - stuff > > I WISH!!!! I've been looking for working Sun Monitors around here and they > aren't to be found! I can't even find a working GDM-1962, though I've > found 4 dead ones! I can keep my eyes out. Let me know offline what you are looking for and I'll beat the bushes. Older Sony monitors are much easier to find than anything else, of course, and weigh a ton. > Anyone know if you can hook a IBM P200 up to a Sparc? IIRC, the 13W3 > pinout is different. I recently got one and have it hooked up to my Linux > box. I love the P200's, I've also got one on my Linux box at work. I do not know much about any other 13W3 monitors, except that SGI also has their own 13W3 pinout, but you can make a swabber. > >I wish I can find Ultrix-32 for the Vax. > >I'm going to look for Linux Decnet... > > Get the Ancient UNIX License, IIRC, the PUPS archive has Ultrix-32. > Remember though, it's a VAX, it *SHOULD* be running OpenVMS!!! What versions? I have distro kits for lots of VAX Ultrix releases in the 1986 - 1994 timeframe. Mostly on 16MT9, but a couple of TK50s. I'd be happy to see these preserved. I even recently found some SYSV and SYSIII magtapes. No idea if they can still be read. My only working tape drive is a TU80 that hasn't been powered on in a couple of years (just got some TE16s last year that were stripped for sensors before they got to me; might still be able to get a TapeStretcher-11 that was hooked to a 11/750 I got from a company in Dayton some time ago). I'd love to have a SCSI magtape drive to make it easier to capture tape images - just fire up the laptop with the APA1460 card and off I go! My first UNIX experience was 4.1BSD on an 11/750 (and I _have_ that exact machine). My first UNIX adminstration experience was loading Ultrix 1.1 onto an 11/730 (got that one, too!). It was once known as ...ihnp4!cbosgd!osu-eddie!osucis!kpanda, or something very close to that. We always had to support both VMS and Ultrix/BSD for our customers. I never threw away a single manual or distribution tape the entire time I was there. Fortunately, the boss let me back the truck up against the door as my final paycheck. The stuff I had to leave behind (sniff)... -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jul 13 15:00:07 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107131901.f6DJ1xt11730@bg-tc-ppp1382.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <200107132000.PAA06022@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > > > Anyone know if you can hook a IBM P200 up to a Sparc? IIRC, the 13W3 > > pinout is different. I recently got one and have it hooked up to my Linux > > box. I love the P200's, I've also got one on my Linux box at work. > > > > I've got a P17. If anyone has a cable adapter pinout please post them. > Well, if i recall correctly, SGI workstations generate sync on green, and Sun workstations generate composite sync. PC's use separate sync. Most if not all new monitors can probably handle all 3 types of sync, if a proper cable or adapter is used. Now, i know some wise guy is gonna jump all over me for making a generalization like that, but in my experience at this university, its true. If you think about monitors with BNC connectors, the ones that only have 3 BNC connectors (Red, Green, and Blue connectors) are sync on green, and probably only support sync on green. If you have a 4th BNC connector, then thats a Composite sync (the 4th BNC wil be labeled Sync most likely). and often a Composite Sync monitor is usable as Sync on Green, but not always. Now, a 5 BNC connector has the last 2 BNC connectors for sync, one for the Vertical Sync, the other for Horizontal Sync. So, this is a separate sync monitor (the type used on PCs). You probably have a VGA type connector instead of 5 BNC connectors. And most modern Separate Sync monitors can handle all 3 types of sync. The other thing to worry about, is if the monitor can handle the resolution and frequency that the computer is generating. Assuming you have a modern monitor, that is multisync and can stretch the screen width and height to fill the size of the picture tube, I would wager you have very good odds of makin this work with a fairly modern Sun (ie, a Sparc model) or SGI. Where to get the adapters? Well, search the web, thats where I got my cables a few years ago. But, I see ebay has over 30 listings by searching for "sun monitor adapter"... Check out www.monitorworld.com and maybe read up on the various types of adapters, so you can determine what will probably work for you. -Lawrence LeMay From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 13 15:28:00 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Tom Uban) References: <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.5.32.20010713110108.0089c850@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <15183.22992.74898.277639@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Tom Uban wrote: > I run a sparc IPX with NetBSD as my firewall. I use the serial console > so that I don't have to have a big non-multisync monitor and/or extra > keyboard/mouse pair sitting on my desk. The box is plenty fast enough > for a firewall and it sits there running quitely month after month, quite > happy. It is on a UPS:-) Ahh, sanity! Bravo! The idea that "every computer must have a bitmapped display, a keyboard, and a mouse" that the PeeCee world has infected us with is utterly ridiculous. -Dave McGuire From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1564.monmouth.com Fri Jul 13 15:40:07 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1564.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jul 13, 2001 11:51:34 am" Message-ID: <200107132040.f6DKe7O11980@bg-tc-ppp1564.monmouth.com> > >I wish I can find Ultrix-32 for the Vax. > >I'm going to look for Linux Decnet... > > Get the Ancient UNIX License, IIRC, the PUPS archive has Ultrix-32. > Remember though, it's a VAX, it *SHOULD* be running OpenVMS!!! > > Zane I've got the Ancient Unix license... didn't know Ultrix-32 was available there. Time to check the PUPS archive (actually, first get VAX/VMS up then worry about the Unix on the box). Great Bill From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 14:45:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >Actually, as a learning system I'd recomend an Apple ][ or ][+ over a > >//e. The reason is that the //e has 2 custom gate array chips (MMU and > > I agree, but finding one of the older apples isn't as easy as it used to be. Apple ][+'s do still turn up from time to time. But yes, not nearly as often as they used to. Apple ]['s are pretty rare these days. Apple //e's are almost as common as Commodore 64s. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 14:47:05 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? In-Reply-To: <20010713121125.26313@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Tom Owad wrote: > >http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~rnlion/comp/apple.html > > Apple did sell Apple II's as just boards, the price difference being > $500, so it's certainly possible somebody made their own cases or even > did a small production run. > > Like Mike said, pictures of the inside would be really helpful. It might > be a clone. If you look closely at these pictures you'll notice that there is indeed a stock Apple ][+ (maybe even a ][) inside the wooden enclosure. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 14:49:05 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <20010713124643.E1407@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > http://games.lasers.org/ > > MAME. Tempest. Laser Projecter. > > Awww yeah. One of the extremely cool features at the VCF's sister event this year (the California Extreme Arcade Game show at http://www.caextreme.org/) is a Laser MAME setup. They are going to try to project it onto the side of the San Jose Convention Center if they can get the right permits :) VCF 5.0 and California Extreme 2001 is September 15-16 in San Jose at the San Jose Convention Center. (more to come of course :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 13 15:50:42 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:41 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 13, 2001 12:50:45 PM Message-ID: <200107132050.f6DKogr32385@shell1.aracnet.com> > I can keep my eyes out. Let me know offline what you are looking for and I'll > beat the bushes. Older Sony monitors are much easier to find than anything > else, of course, and weigh a ton. I don't want to have to ship one, and now that I've got the IBM P200 sitting next to my Viewsonic P815, I don't really have room. > I do not know much about any other 13W3 monitors, except that SGI also has > their own 13W3 pinout, but you can make a swabber. I thought SGI and Sun used the same pinout. > > Get the Ancient UNIX License, IIRC, the PUPS archive has Ultrix-32. > > Remember though, it's a VAX, it *SHOULD* be running OpenVMS!!! > > What versions? I have distro kits for lots of VAX Ultrix releases in the > 1986 - 1994 timeframe. Mostly on 16MT9, but a couple of TK50s. I'd be OK, I just dug around to figure out what they've got up. It's odd, I could have sworn they had stuff newer than V1.2! Geez, this is stuff I've actually got the doc's for. I might have to setup a system running it eventually. 32m-1.0-bin Ultrix-32M V1.0 BIN; 1984 2 RX50 images; format unknown 32m-1.0-sw Ultrix-32M V1.0 D-SOFTWARE; 1984 13 RX50 images; tar 32m-1.2-acct Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN ACCOUNTING; 1985 1 RX50 image; tar 32m-1.2-bin Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN; 1986 4 RX50 images; tar looks like kernel sources only 32m-1.2-binxx Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN; 1986 1 RX50 image; tar looks like field-service exercisers 32m-1.2-comm Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN COMMUNICATIONS; 1985 5 RX50 images; tar 32m-1.2-fort Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN FORTRAN; 1985 1 RX50 image; tar 32m-1.2-filt Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN FILTERS; 1985 1 RX50 image; tar 32m-1.2-prog Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN PROGRAMMER; 1985 4 RX50 images; tar RX50 4/4 is mis-labelled EXERCISER but contains what is pretty clearly PROGRAMMER contents (libc_p libplot libtermcap ...) 32m-1.2-pas Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN PASCAL; 1985 2 RX50 images; tar 32m-1.2-sccs Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN SCCS; 1985 2 RX50 images; tar 32m-1.2-writ Ultrix-32M V1.2 BIN WRITERS; 1985 2 RX50 images; tar decnet-1.1 DECNET-Ultrix V1.1 BIN; 1986 3 RX50 images; tar Looks like they also have the following BSD stuff: -r--r--r-- 1 pups archive 6744143 Jul 24 1997 3bsd.tar.gz drwxr-xr-x 3 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 4.2BSD drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 4.3BSD drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 4.3BSD-Reno drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 4.3BSD-Rev2-Foreign drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 4.3BSD-Tahoe drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 4.4BSD-Alpha drwxr-xr-x 3 pups archive 512 Jun 27 2000 Misc drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 Net2 -rw-r--r-- 1 1011 archive 2042 Oct 10 1999 WELCOME drwxr-xr-x 3 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 components drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 odds-ends drwxr-xr-x 3 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 thirdparty drwxr-xr-x 2 1011 archive 512 Jun 27 2000 tips Zane From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 15:53:53 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <15183.22992.74898.277639@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 13, 2001 04:28:00 PM Message-ID: <200107132053.f6DKrrg18264@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I run a sparc IPX with NetBSD as my firewall. I use the serial console > > so that I don't have to have a big non-multisync monitor and/or extra > > keyboard/mouse pair sitting on my desk. The box is plenty fast enough > > for a firewall and it sits there running quitely month after month, quite > > happy. It is on a UPS:-) > > Ahh, sanity! Bravo! The idea that "every computer must have a > bitmapped display, a keyboard, and a mouse" that the PeeCee world has > infected us with is utterly ridiculous. I think you'll find most people on this list have computers with only a serial terminal. Other than my main Linux system and my laptop (and excluding my wife's system and her laptop), everything else is connected to a terminal server. I do have a VT525 that's connected to a 19" color monitor. That makes a great terminal. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 13 16:36:40 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? In-Reply-To: <20010713121125.26313@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <570.594T2000T13565361optimus@canit.se> Tom Owad skrev: >Apple did sell Apple II's as just boards, the price difference being >$500, so it's certainly possible somebody made their own cases or even >did a small production run. I once read in an old children's magazine about some teenage girls who built an Apple II in technology class, sporting a pink case and an ABCDEF keyboard instead of a QWERTY one, so as to be more friendly towards children. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Iggy tipsar: Koppla aldrig en C128-transformator till en A500. ?ven om kontakterna ser likadana ut, ligger sp?nningarna fel. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 13 16:46:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1011.594T850T13664951optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>>What about running an emulator? I've heard from a couple people that are >>>building their own game kiosk based on PC emulation. >> >>Arcade games are quite an intensive experience, and emulations really can't >>live up to that experience. Besides, that would involve some rather >>expensive PC equipment anyway, not to mention the sensation of playing a >>mock-up every time. >The good emulations look EXACTLY like the original games, because they >actually run the original rom code. Fancy controllers and building kiosks >just make the illusion complete. First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect emulation. Secondly, even the CRTs differ. Might not matter if you've got bad eyesight, though. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 13 15:55:21 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 13, 2001 04:40:07 PM Message-ID: <200107132055.f6DKtLi32690@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've got the Ancient Unix license... didn't know Ultrix-32 was > available there. > > Time to check the PUPS archive (actually, first get VAX/VMS up then > worry about the Unix on the box). > > Great > > Bill > Has been for about a year, see my other post for a rundown of what's there (not as much as I expected). Besides, as I *always* say, VAX/VMS is preferable. This is of course in part because I find UNIX on hardware older than about a Sparc 10 painful. Zane From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jul 13 15:57:23 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors Message-ID: <6f.17f72855.2880bab3@aol.com> In a message dated 7/13/2001 3:51:07 PM Central Daylight Time, foo@siconic.com writes: << > >Actually, as a learning system I'd recomend an Apple ][ or ][+ over a > >//e. The reason is that the //e has 2 custom gate array chips (MMU and > > I agree, but finding one of the older apples isn't as easy as it used to be. Apple ][+'s do still turn up from time to time. But yes, not nearly as often as they used to. Apple ]['s are pretty rare these days. Apple //e's are almost as common as Commodore 64s. Sellam Ismail >> I'd say that //c models are the next common model followed by the GS. of course, the //c+ is the hard one to get. From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 16:05:03 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151332@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151332@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >The ROM for TEMPEST is available, and there's an >emulator??? >I've been making do with ARASHI on the Mac for >10 years, and I coulda had the real thing? >Any links? The MAME page for the Mac can be found at: http://www.macmame.org If you have trouble finding the various ROM archives, let me know. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 16:13:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Also, I've got a ton of 72 pin SIMMs sitting around (well over 128MB >worth) pulled from 68k and PPC 601 Macintoshes... So I'm not >concerned about the memory. I dunno if they are parity or not, >though. Macs don't care... Any way I can tell by looking at the >SIMMs? Generally the 8-chip SIMMs are non-parity while the 9-chip SIMMs are parity. Not sure about the 3-chip ones though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 13 16:49:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Eric Dittman" at Jul 13, 2001 03:53:53 PM Message-ID: <200107132149.f6DLnJv02701@shell1.aracnet.com> > I think you'll find most people on this list have computers > with only a serial terminal. Some of us even have Terminals that are plugged into terminal servers instead of computers. That way they can choose which computer on the network they connect to. What can I say, I love VT420's. > Other than my main Linux system > and my laptop (and excluding my wife's system and her laptop), > everything else is connected to a terminal server. My big thing is sharing my Monitors between systems. Right now the IBM P200 can drive 4 systems (4-way digital switch box for both video, keyboard and mouse), the Viewsonic P815 can do 2 (dual inputs), and the Dec 17" can do 2 (dual inputs). > I do have a VT525 that's connected to a 19" color monitor. > That makes a great terminal. Oh, drool! Now that sounds sweet! Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 13 16:57:03 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Eric Dittman) References: <15183.22992.74898.277639@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107132053.f6DKrrg18264@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15183.28335.144494.587342@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Ahh, sanity! Bravo! The idea that "every computer must have a > > bitmapped display, a keyboard, and a mouse" that the PeeCee world has > > infected us with is utterly ridiculous. > > I think you'll find most people on this list have computers > with only a serial terminal. Other than my main Linux system How refreshing. The next time I see a stack of Suns in a computer room with a monitor/keyboard/mouse on a KVM switch, I'm going to throw up. > and my laptop (and excluding my wife's system and her laptop), > everything else is connected to a terminal server. Excellent! I'm about to (FINALLY) take that step myself. > I do have a VT525 that's connected to a 19" color monitor. > That makes a great terminal. Cool! -Dave McGuire From brian at quarterbyte.com Fri Jul 13 17:21:20 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Cipher C880 tape drive Message-ID: <3B4F11F0.26464.1DABBF91@localhost> I read this list in digest form so I get stuff a little late. No need to worry Chad, the controller is an Emulex Pertec-type controller - two 50-pin cables. I think the model is TC02 (big chip label reads TC0210201-FSJ), assembly # on pcb is TU0210401 rev G. Re the Cipher C880 tape drive, I found some references in Google but nothing panned out. There was supposed to be a PDF version of the F880 manual on www.retrobytes.org according to http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2000-03/0050.html but danged if I can find it there. Looks like the site only lists used PC stuff for sale. The back of the drive says it runs at 1600 or 3200 bpi. That's a new one on me. Hope those old tapes I made long ago are at 1600 and not 800. Photos I saw of the F880 look just like my drive. That's promising but superficial. Does anyone know the difference between the Cipher C880 and the F880 series? Anybody have any detailed info on either drive? Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 17:22:54 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107132149.f6DLnJv02701@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 13, 2001 02:49:19 PM Message-ID: <200107132222.f6DMMsS18676@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I think you'll find most people on this list have computers > > with only a serial terminal. > > Some of us even have Terminals that are plugged into terminal servers > instead of computers. That way they can choose which computer on the > network they connect to. What can I say, I love VT420's. I use a DECserver 90M. I've got a handful of other DECservers, but I like the 90M due to its size. I'll be switching to a DECserver 700-16 soon, though. > > Other than my main Linux system > > and my laptop (and excluding my wife's system and her laptop), > > everything else is connected to a terminal server. > > My big thing is sharing my Monitors between systems. Right now the IBM P200 > can drive 4 systems (4-way digital switch box for both video, keyboard and > mouse), the Viewsonic P815 can do 2 (dual inputs), and the Dec 17" can do > 2 (dual inputs). > > > I do have a VT525 that's connected to a 19" color monitor. > > That makes a great terminal. > > Oh, drool! Now that sounds sweet! I like it. :-) -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 13 17:34:41 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Cipher C880 tape drive In-Reply-To: Cipher C880 tape drive (Brian Knittel) References: <3B4F11F0.26464.1DABBF91@localhost> Message-ID: <15183.30593.674346.204063@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Brian Knittel wrote: > Photos I saw of the F880 look just like my drive. That's > promising but superficial. Does anyone know the difference > between the Cipher C880 and the F880 series? Anybody > have any detailed info on either drive? I believe I have a service manual for the F880...want me to go dig for it? -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 13 17:36:46 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Eric Dittman) References: <200107132149.f6DLnJv02701@shell1.aracnet.com> <200107132222.f6DMMsS18676@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15183.30718.454600.783955@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Some of us even have Terminals that are plugged into terminal servers > > instead of computers. That way they can choose which computer on the > > network they connect to. What can I say, I love VT420's. > > I use a DECserver 90M. I've got a handful of other DECservers, > but I like the 90M due to its size. I'll be switching to a > DECserver 700-16 soon, though. I have a 700-16 here that I plan to put into service soon. Looks like a damn nice box. -Dave McGuire From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Jul 13 16:25:27 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <15183.22992.74898.277639@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.5.32.20010713110108.0089c850@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010713172527.01841ac0@obregon.multi.net.co> At 04:28 PM 7/13/01 -0400, you wrote: >On July 13, Tom Uban wrote: >> I run a sparc IPX with NetBSD as my firewall. I use the serial console >> so that I don't have to have a big non-multisync monitor and/or extra >> keyboard/mouse pair sitting on my desk. The box is plenty fast enough >> for a firewall and it sits there running quitely month after month, quite >> happy. It is on a UPS:-) > > Ahh, sanity! Bravo! The idea that "every computer must have a >bitmapped display, a keyboard, and a mouse" that the PeeCee world has >infected us with is utterly ridiculous. > > -Dave McGuire Right! I have a 6-to-1 RS-232 switch with one vt320 on one side, and on the other sides I have 1) hp380, 2) Decstation 5000/133, 3) Vaxstation 2000, 4) and 5) misc. 68hc11 boards... Saves a lot of space :-) . -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 13 17:53:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Carlos Murillo) References: <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.5.32.20010713110108.0089c850@ubanproductions.com> <3.0.2.32.20010713172527.01841ac0@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <15183.31724.714950.91667@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > Ahh, sanity! Bravo! The idea that "every computer must have a > >bitmapped display, a keyboard, and a mouse" that the PeeCee world has > >infected us with is utterly ridiculous. > > Right! I have a 6-to-1 RS-232 switch with one vt320 on one side, > and on the other sides I have 1) hp380, 2) Decstation 5000/133, > 3) Vaxstation 2000, 4) and 5) misc. 68hc11 boards... > > Saves a lot of space :-) . Very cool! -Dave McGuire From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Jul 13 17:58:21 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066041@exc-reo1> > Ethan Dicks wrote: >How many zeros in "desperatly"? I've heard of VAXeln; I don't remember >anything about a uVAX1000 in particular, but I have a foggy memory that >DEC did sell stripped hardware that would run VAXeln but not VMS. It >wasn't cheap enough to be wildly popular, ISTR. I don't think I heard >much of anything outside of DECUS symposia. I think that the proper designation was the rtVAX 1000. (Based, IIRC, on the KA620 - a cut down version of the KA630 used in the MicroVAX II). There were other rtVAX variants based on the later CVAX chips but I've never particularly kept track of them so I don't have a list. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 13 14:11:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <20010713011434.27088.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 12, 1 06:14:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 882 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010713/71d628b7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 13 14:23:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 12, 1 09:22:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1322 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010713/a5d3fe3c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 13 17:10:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Old PCs in Bristol, England need good home In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 12, 1 09:29:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1573 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010713/531424c9/attachment.ksh From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 18:22:18 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <15183.30718.454600.783955@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 13, 2001 06:36:46 PM Message-ID: <200107132322.f6DNMIl18846@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Some of us even have Terminals that are plugged into terminal servers > > > instead of computers. That way they can choose which computer on the > > > network they connect to. What can I say, I love VT420's. > > > > I use a DECserver 90M. I've got a handful of other DECservers, > > but I like the 90M due to its size. I'll be switching to a > > DECserver 700-16 soon, though. > > I have a 700-16 here that I plan to put into service soon. Looks like > a damn nice box. What is the model number? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Fri Jul 13 18:24:05 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: no mail In-Reply-To: <200107132222.f6DMMsS18676@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <200107132149.f6DLnJv02701@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010713192227.00b04cd0@pop-server> There are so many messages on this group (that's good) that when I go away my mailbox overflows. How do I stop the mail temporarily or go "no mail" while I am away. From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 13 18:29:01 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107132053.f6DKrrg18264@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: You should run a serial terminal on your main Linux system too! 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Ahh, sanity! Bravo! The idea that "every computer must have a > > bitmapped display, a keyboard, and a mouse" that the PeeCee world has > > infected us with is utterly ridiculous. > > I think you'll find most people on this list have computers > with only a serial terminal. Other than my main Linux system > and my laptop (and excluding my wife's system and her laptop), > everything else is connected to a terminal server. From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Fri Jul 13 18:32:20 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II mini-assembler In-Reply-To: <200107132003.PAA95227@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: The Enhanced Apple IIe has the mini-assembler built-in. From the monitor, type an exclamation point and press RETURN. I am not sure about the IIc's or IIgs's, but I would guess they support it the same way. If you boot a DOS 3.3 System Master, it loads the language card with Integer BASIC and the rest, including the mini-assembler. I have some information about the Apple II ROMS, including the mini-assembler source code, at http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/6502/6502.htm Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Fri Jul 13 18:35:37 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II wooden case In-Reply-To: <200107132003.PAA95227@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: The wooden case is a protective shell around the Apple II. It was probably marketed for schools, especially for the teacher's computer. I bet there is a way to lock the shell down with either a bolt or a cable. The computer itself is either an Apple II or Apple II+. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 13 18:42:27 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question Message-ID: Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. Peace... Sridhar From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 13 18:52:01 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II wooden case In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One of the first Apple ]['s that I owned was a discarded Apple ][ motherboard mounted in a discarded OSI case, with an RCA membrane keyboard connected by a short cable. The OSI case had wood sides. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 13 18:56:30 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Eric Dittman) References: <15183.30718.454600.783955@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107132322.f6DNMIl18846@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15183.35502.924600.464406@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > I have a 700-16 here that I plan to put into service soon. Looks like > > a damn nice box. > > What is the model number? DECserver 700, DSRVW-CA.AC1. -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 13 18:56:37 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <20010713145025.88546.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706603B@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713165525.00a07c20@www.mcmanis.com> So that would be the KA620 processor. I had one and it would _only_ run VAXEln, and mostly it appears that people did development on a "real" VAX and then simply mop booted the image onto the KA620 (which it would do) --Chuck At 07:50 AM 7/13/01 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:04:08 +0200 "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" > >wrote: > > > The uVax1000 is for real time purposes. A uVax II with a level of memory > > management removed. Ran typically VaxEln. Last year I desperately needed > > one to expand an industrial control application. We found one. > > > > Wim > >How many zeros in "desperatly"? I've heard of VAXeln; I don't remember >anything about a uVAX1000 in particular, but I have a foggy memory that >DEC did sell stripped hardware that would run VAXeln but not VMS. It >wasn't cheap enough to be wildly popular, ISTR. I don't think I heard >much of anything outside of DECUS symposia. > >-ethan > > > > >===== >Visit "The Seventh Continent" >http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 13 19:18:28 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors" (Jul 13, 20:23) References: Message-ID: <10107140118.ZM6565@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 13, 20:23, Tony Duell wrote: > Over here, I'd recoment getting a BBC Micro. It's got one main > disadvantage compared to the Apple ][ -- no expansion slots. The plus > points are : [snip] I'll add the one point I'm surprised that Tony, of all people, missed :-) It's well documented; the circuit diagrams are readily available, the service manual is reasonably easy to find, and includes circuit description, upgrade instructions, schematics, board layouts, mechanical drawings, etc. And other documents cover the systems calls in detail, how to build interfaces to the bus, how to write ROM software for it, and so on. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 13 19:07:45 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Sparc at home" (Jul 13, 13:50) References: <200107132050.f6DKogr32385@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <10107140107.ZM6554@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 13, 13:50, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I do not know much about any other 13W3 monitors, except that SGI also has > > their own 13W3 pinout, but you can make a swabber. > > I thought SGI and Sun used the same pinout. Only for the R,G,B coax connections. The rest of the pins are used for various monitor-type-sense and sync signals, and the SGI and Sun pinouts are quite different. To make matters worse, many SGI-badged monitors don't have the sync pins connected on the 13W3 (though you'll find articles on the web that explain how to get at the internal connections). And then to add insult to injury, SGI only put as many pins in their cables as they actually need (Sun mostly use fully-wired cables). Beige Indigo cables have one less pin than grey Indy cables! Lawrence is broadly correct about SGI/Sun and sync-on-green/composite sync. Indys and Indigos can generate separate sync, but the contemporary monitors mostly don't use it. The later ones do; the lack of sync is used to put the monitor into power-save, and Indys and O2s running IRIX 6.5 have *two* screensaver delays: the first for the saver to kick in, the second for the sync to be shut off to cause the monitor to power-save. In my experience, like Lawrence's, most badged monitors can handle all types of sync if you can get at it. The GDM-17E11 (SGI-badged Sony) for example has the sync connections inside, just not on the 13W3, and works fine with PCs and Suns if you add two wires. My HP-badged and DEC-badged GDM-1961HA, with 5 BNC and 3 BNC respectively, both support sync-on-green, and the DEC one has places to fit the extra 2 BNCs inside (IIRC you need to add resistors as well, and obviously you need to knock out two holes in the case). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Fri Jul 13 19:21:22 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II as trainer In-Reply-To: <200107132003.PAA95227@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: For learning hardware, an Apple II or an Apple II+ is better since the large custom chips (MMU and IOU) are not there; instead, almost everything is generic TTL. For software, I think the Apple IIe is better. The computer has much more built-in capabilities (64K, 80-columns, lower case, better keyboard, etc). The ROMs are replaceable with standard 27 series EPROMs. I just picked up four Platinum IIes. The firmware is in one ROM (16KB, 27C128 compatible). I also have a SwyftCard. I am going to see if I can convert the IIe into a Canon Cat. The show-stopper would be if the SwyftCard uses lots of IIe ROM routines and I cannot fit it all into 16KB. Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 19:25:29 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713165525.00a07c20@www.mcmanis.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 13, 2001 04:56:37 PM Message-ID: <200107140025.f6E0PTX19039@narnia.int.dittman.net> > So that would be the KA620 processor. I had one and it would _only_ run > VAXEln, and mostly it appears that people did development on a "real" VAX > and then simply mop booted the image onto the KA620 (which it would do) That's exactly how ELN development was done. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 19:32:50 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <15183.35502.924600.464406@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 13, 2001 07:56:30 PM Message-ID: <200107140032.f6E0Wo819062@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > I have a 700-16 here that I plan to put into service soon. Looks like > > > a damn nice box. > > > > What is the model number? > > DECserver 700, DSRVW-CA.AC1. I'm not sure if the -CA has FLASH capabilities. I know the -ZC does for sure. If the -CA does have FLASH capabilities, do you have a FLASH memory card for it? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 19:34:14 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Master of all that Sucks" at Jul 13, 2001 07:29:01 PM Message-ID: <200107140034.f6E0YEm19074@narnia.int.dittman.net> > You should run a serial terminal on your main Linux system too! 8-) > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > Ahh, sanity! Bravo! The idea that "every computer must have a > > > bitmapped display, a keyboard, and a mouse" that the PeeCee world has > > > infected us with is utterly ridiculous. > > > > I think you'll find most people on this list have computers > > with only a serial terminal. Other than my main Linux system > > and my laptop (and excluding my wife's system and her laptop), > > everything else is connected to a terminal server. I use the main Linux system as an X display server. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jul 13 19:48:03 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Great new addition to collection Message-ID: <014801c10bfe$a460f1a0$7f731fd1@default> Picked 4 items from the 3m auction today 2 are not of age but must talk about them anyway. 1. mTi Accumcasure system 1000 2. Vibrace model 350 Flexible Disc tester type MDL TM-350 3. HP 9000 D Class with PA-RISC power, cdrom, tape backup and SCSI drive in nice HP rack 4. HP system rack with 7 SCSI SE drives and 2 tape backup units Also picked up the August 2001 issue of PCWorld and they have a 4 page article on the history of computing with pictures. From rnlion at its.caltech.edu Fri Jul 13 19:42:15 2001 From: rnlion at its.caltech.edu (Rob Lion) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is it possible that they're SCSI? I've run across a lot of external HDs with connectors like you describe, though never on a system. I found a link to a picture at http://www.computeruniverse.net/products/90030799.asp (I know that there are much better pages than that, but I couldn't find them at the moment). Adapters are available to connect to most other kinds of SCSI as well. -Rob On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. > > Peace... Sridhar > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 13 19:46:17 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: "History" of computing (was: Great new addition to collection In-Reply-To: <014801c10bfe$a460f1a0$7f731fd1@default> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Also picked up the August 2001 issue of PCWorld and they have a 4 page > article on the history of computing with pictures. Is that the one that has Lincoln Spector's bit about PC-DOS 1.0 that was based partially on discussions on this list? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rnlion at its.caltech.edu Fri Jul 13 19:52:35 2001 From: rnlion at its.caltech.edu (Rob Lion) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry for the extra reply, but I found a much better webpage describing this SCSI connector (if that is what it is). http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/scsi/cables_Connectors.htm has info on just about all of the SCSI connectors I've heard of; the one you have is SCSI-1 standard, before Apple decided to rip out half of the pins. -Rob On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. > > Peace... Sridhar > > From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 13 18:32:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <926.595T900T324661optimus@canit.se> Andrew Kershaw skrev: >Question about the audio: It's 44kHz 16bit stereo, right? Any chance I can >play MP3s? :-D heh.... 50MHz is a bit slow for 128kbps audio I imagine. >But it's worth a try just for the heck of it, right? To a competent programmer 50 MHz is plenty. Well, Megahertz don't really matter. They're just some million oscillations per second, and that's not really relevant when measuring computer speed or more specifically the ability to play MP3s in real time. A 50 MHz Amiga may play several MP3 at once in real time. Don't know about portable unoptimised UNIX programs, though. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "But software which OpenBSD uses and redistributes must be free to all (be they people or companies), for any purpose they wish to use it, including modification, use, peeing on, or even integration into baby mulching machines or atomic bombs to be dropped on Australia." - Theo de Raadt From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 13 19:50:50 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Eric Dittman) References: <15183.35502.924600.464406@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107140032.f6E0Wo819062@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15183.38762.524715.412133@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > DECserver 700, DSRVW-CA.AC1. > > I'm not sure if the -CA has FLASH capabilities. I know the -ZC > does for sure. If the -CA does have FLASH capabilities, do you > have a FLASH memory card for it? Nope. I haven't cracked it open. I was just going to netboot it. -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 13 19:54:40 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: swordfish Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713174616.009f8d40@208.226.86.10> Saw this movie last night, and personally I found the use of "real" jargon to describe what they were doing jarring because it didn't work right. Much better to have the 'trek like' mishmash of terms that don't make any sense but sound good. The "mega system" that was supposed to be the wet dream of hackers everywhere was this thing with about 8 LCD screens set up in some sort of technotica holding unit. I thought about this and decided it doesn't work on a number of levels, not the least of which is that you can't read stuff on the top displays and you cant use them in parallel. Much cleaner to build somthing like a jumbotron with 9 screens to give you a 56" monitor with effectively 4K x 3K resolution. Then you could move things around and even if they spanned monitors they would be readable. In terms of classic hardware the multiheaded-ness of my SPARCStation was useful in that regard, and I do this on my laptop as well (when its docked). Clearly the BLIT kind of had the idea (Bell Labs Intelligent Terminal) and the VT340 is nice (like the VT420) in that you can swap screens easily. I _really_ like the idea of the VT525 on a big screen. I'm definitely going to have to try that. There was also an early hack done on Amigas that slaved three of them running 'Jet' to give you three views and thus a wraparound screen effect. So what is the ideal visual machine? Opinions? --Chuck From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 20:07:26 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <15183.38762.524715.412133@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 13, 2001 08:50:50 PM Message-ID: <200107140107.f6E17Q519301@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > DECserver 700, DSRVW-CA.AC1. > > > > I'm not sure if the -CA has FLASH capabilities. I know the -ZC > > does for sure. If the -CA does have FLASH capabilities, do you > > have a FLASH memory card for it? > > Nope. I haven't cracked it open. I was just going to netboot it. Then you'll want to make sure the system you boot it from doesn't have its console on the terminal server. I like having a FLASH- capable terminal server so I don't have to rely on any of the systems being up and functioning to get the terminal server going. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Jul 13 20:22:27 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: "History" of computing (was: Great new addition to collection References: Message-ID: <016c01c10c03$728c0a20$7f731fd1@default> Yes it was written by Lincoln and has pictures of Tim Patterson the creator of QDOS now ms-dos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 7:46 PM Subject: "History" of computing (was: Great new addition to collection > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > Also picked up the August 2001 issue of PCWorld and they have a 4 page > > article on the history of computing with pictures. > > Is that the one that has Lincoln Spector's bit about PC-DOS 1.0 that was > based partially on discussions on this list? > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 13 20:00:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <10107140118.ZM6565@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 14, 1 00:18:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010714/c3ad01a5/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 13 20:17:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: swordfish In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713174616.009f8d40@208.226.86.10> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713174616.009f8d40@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >There was also an early hack done on Amigas that slaved three of >them running 'Jet' to give you three views and thus a wraparound >screen effect. Even with just a single big-box Amiga and a graphics card such as the GVP Spectrum, it is possible to install as many of the graphics cards as you have Zorro-II/III slots and use them each as a seperate display. I believe it is even mentioned in the Spectrum's user manual with regards to doing such as thing with EGS. It's been a long time since I looked at the manual though and I don't have one here in front of me, but I do know that you could definately put multiple Spectrum's in a single Amiga. The processing power would then be the main limiting factor as to how complex each display's images could be, especially if animated. Years ago I thought about using a cluster of Amiga's to do some sort of VR setup, each Amiga tasked with a specific section. The interesting thing would've been to keep them synced. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 13 20:24:05 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Eric Dittman) References: <15183.38762.524715.412133@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107140107.f6E17Q519301@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15183.40757.814642.920269@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > DECserver 700, DSRVW-CA.AC1. > > > > > > I'm not sure if the -CA has FLASH capabilities. I know the -ZC > > > does for sure. If the -CA does have FLASH capabilities, do you > > > have a FLASH memory card for it? > > > > Nope. I haven't cracked it open. I was just going to netboot it. > > Then you'll want to make sure the system you boot it from doesn't > have its console on the terminal server. I like having a FLASH- > capable terminal server so I don't have to rely on any of the > systems being up and functioning to get the terminal server going. Yes, I will have to be careful with that. At this point I'm kinda limited by what I have on-hand. -Dave McGuire From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 13 20:29:43 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: swordfish In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713174616.009f8d40@208.226.86.10>; from cmcmanis@mcmanis.com on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 05:54:40PM -0700 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713174616.009f8d40@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20010713182943.B12735@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 05:54:40PM -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: > So what is the ideal visual machine? Opinions? If you've ever seen the StarFire propaganda video from Sun... that was impressive. A horizontal desk at the back curves upwards into a tall backdrop, and the whole thing is a giant seamless display and a scanner too, and pressure-sensitive. You can scan paper by placing it on the surface and rubbing with your hand. Well I think the techology to build such a thing isn't there yet but I can sure relate to this dream... I suppose what it's waiting for is the ability to integrate VCSE-LED's and CCD elements together on a large sheet of some kind of semiconductor. Maybe now that there are printable polymer semiconductors, if a CCD or some other kind of light-sensor element could be implemented using this kind of semiconductor, it would be possible. This "video prototype" as they called it might even be old enough to be on-topic. The trouble with jumbotrons is the space between screens. I have thought of using multiple projectors, and aligning them so the edges just meet perfectly; you could have a matrix of 6 or 8 of them and have a really big desktop. But I can't afford even one nice 1280x1024 DLP projector, let alone 8 of them. :-) I also want to build a desk to hold some touchscreens at an angle, almost horizontal but not quite; with convenient armrests for hours of comfortable use. I am (very slowly) working on a client-server UI system which will among other things permit the user interface to be distributed across multiple workstations and screens in a "cluster". Right now the best I have is 2 21" monitors at 1280x1024 each. Not bad but could still be improved. I'm using XFree in dual-head mode; I can't get Xinerama working so far. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Jul 13 20:37:00 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! - stuff > > I WISH!!!! I've been looking for working Sun Monitors around here and they > aren't to be found! I can't even find a working GDM-1962, though I've > found 4 dead ones! Define "around here". I have a couple color and mono monitors from Sparc-1's that I could get rid of. Keeps them out of the landfill. And before anybody asks, no, I would not even consider trying to package and ship them anywhere. > > >I wish I can find Ultrix-32 for the Vax. > >I'm going to look for Linux Decnet... > > Get the Ancient UNIX License, IIRC, the PUPS archive has Ultrix-32. > Remember though, it's a VAX, it *SHOULD* be running OpenVMS!!! Ummm. No. Ultrix-32 is not covered by the Ancient Unix License and the last time I talked with Warren it was not available. Ultrix-11 is, but I hardly think that will run on a VAX. Of course, none of the above precludes running Ultrix-32 on a VAX as Compaq doesn't seem to care enough about it to even talk to anyone about it. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 13 20:39:51 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The only problem is that my DECsystem 5840 doesn't have a SCSI controller. It has three of these connectors, however. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Rob Lion wrote: > Sorry for the extra reply, but I found a much better webpage describing > this SCSI connector (if that is what it is). > http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/scsi/cables_Connectors.htm has info on > just about all of the SCSI connectors I've heard of; the one you have is > SCSI-1 standard, before Apple decided to rip out half of the pins. > > -Rob > > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 19:39:41 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <6f.17f72855.2880bab3@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I'd say that //c models are the next common model followed by the GS. > of course, the //c+ is the hard one to get. I don't know why that should be. I've got I think two myself, but I would think that more would've been sold. I wonder how many were sold? I have more Apple ]['s that //c+'s :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 19:42:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:42 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > 2) The best version of basic to come as standard on any 8 bit micro. > It supports named functions and procedures, local variables, > recursion, and so on. It's an order-of-magnitude nicer than anything > Microsoft-related. Wow, cool! That certainly would've been a nice BASIC to learn on. > 3) A built-in _full_ assembler for the 6502. Wow, double cool! > Of course getting one in the States is not that easy... Unlike over > here. I want one :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 20:42:47 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <15183.40757.814642.920269@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 13, 2001 09:24:05 PM Message-ID: <200107140142.f6E1glG19400@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > > DECserver 700, DSRVW-CA.AC1. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure if the -CA has FLASH capabilities. I know the -ZC > > > > does for sure. If the -CA does have FLASH capabilities, do you > > > > have a FLASH memory card for it? > > > > > > Nope. I haven't cracked it open. I was just going to netboot it. > > > > Then you'll want to make sure the system you boot it from doesn't > > have its console on the terminal server. I like having a FLASH- > > capable terminal server so I don't have to rely on any of the > > systems being up and functioning to get the terminal server going. > > Yes, I will have to be careful with that. At this point I'm kinda > limited by what I have on-hand. If your 700 is FLASH-capable I have an extra FLASH card. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 19:45:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II wooden case In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > One of the first Apple ]['s that I owned was a discarded Apple ][ > motherboard mounted in a discarded OSI case, with an RCA membrane keyboard > connected by a short cable. > > The OSI case had wood sides. Now THAT is cool :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 19:46:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <10107140118.ZM6565@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > It's well documented; the circuit diagrams are readily available, the > service manual is reasonably easy to find, and includes circuit > description, upgrade instructions, schematics, board layouts, > mechanical drawings, etc. And other documents cover the systems calls > in detail, how to build interfaces to the bus, how to write ROM > software for it, and so on. The original Apple ][ reference manual wasn't nearly as comprehensive but still it included the schematics, ROM listings, and other tidbits of useful info for understanding all the various subsystems of the basic Apple ][. It was my "bible" throughout high school (how deliciously nerdy, eh? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 19:48:33 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II as trainer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > I just picked up four Platinum IIes. The firmware is in one ROM > (16KB, 27C128 compatible). I also have a SwyftCard. I am going to Ooooh. One of the holy grails of the Apple ][ scene :) > see if I can convert the IIe into a Canon Cat. The show-stopper would > be if the SwyftCard uses lots of IIe ROM routines and I cannot fit it > all into 16KB. You'll have to exhibit that at VCF Midwest (if John Keys ever takes a break from collecting and decides to go ahead and organize it :) On that note, VCF East 1.0 is nigh two weeks away...July 28-29 in Marlborough, Massachusetts, Royal Plaza Hotel and Trade Center. http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 19:49:30 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: "History" of computing (was: Great new addition to collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > Also picked up the August 2001 issue of PCWorld and they have a 4 page > > article on the history of computing with pictures. > > Is that the one that has Lincoln Spector's bit about PC-DOS 1.0 that was > based partially on discussions on this list? Was it? BTW, Lincoln was a speaker at VCF 1.0 :)~ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 19:51:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: swordfish In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713174616.009f8d40@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > So what is the ideal visual machine? Opinions? A computer that uses an IMAX screen as its output? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From wonko at arkham.ws Fri Jul 13 20:52:10 2001 From: wonko at arkham.ws (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:27PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010713215210.V462@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:27PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. it's the MFM "Extention" cable. you can put external MFM devices on it. -brian From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 13 21:01:26 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Bill Gunshannon" at Jul 13, 2001 09:37:00 PM Message-ID: <200107140201.f6E21Qx15022@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >> I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! - stuff > > > > I WISH!!!! I've been looking for working Sun Monitors around here and they > > aren't to be found! I can't even find a working GDM-1962, though I've > > found 4 dead ones! > > Define "around here". I have a couple color and mono monitors from > Sparc-1's that I could get rid of. Keeps them out of the landfill. > And before anybody asks, no, I would not even consider trying to > package and ship them anywhere. Portland, OR. And, don't worry, I wouldn't even consider shipping! > Ummm. No. Ultrix-32 is not covered by the Ancient Unix License and > the last time I talked with Warren it was not available. Ultrix-11 > is, but I hardly think that will run on a VAX. Of course, none of the > above precludes running Ultrix-32 on a VAX as Compaq doesn't seem to > care enough about it to even talk to anyone about it. Better go take a look at the PUPS archive. V1.0 and V1.2 is on it as near as I can tell. I looked earlier this afternoon. I detailed what I found in an earlier message. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 13 21:03:02 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: <20010713215210.V462@wintermute.arkham.ws> from "Brian Hechinger" at Jul 13, 2001 09:52:10 PM Message-ID: <200107140203.f6E232s15083@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:27PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. > > it's the MFM "Extention" cable. you can put external MFM devices on it. > > -brian That's one *seriously* old VAXserver 3100 then. Only the very first ones used MFM disks as I understand it (I've never actually seen one). Zane From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 13 21:06:19 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: <20010713215210.V462@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: How about on my DS5840/VAX6000? Doesn't have MFM. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:27PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. > > it's the MFM "Extention" cable. you can put external MFM devices on it. > > -brian > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 13 21:07:43 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: "History" of computing (was: Great new addition to collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Is that the one that has Lincoln Spector's bit about PC-DOS 1.0 that was > > based partially on discussions on this list? On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Was it? > BTW, Lincoln was a speaker at VCF 1.0 :)~ At Lincoln's request, I did some stopwatch tests on PC-DOS 1.00 in 5150 in terms of time to boot, etc. It was at the same time as a thread during the middle of March here about whether there had ever been a 1.00 by people who didn't get into the PC until later. YOU started that thread with: > Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the > first production release was 1.10? Then I sold my original of 1.00 to somebody on the list. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From linc at thelinuxlink.net Fri Jul 13 20:57:27 2001 From: linc at thelinuxlink.net (linc) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > How about on my DS5840/VAX6000? Doesn't have MFM. > > Peace... Sridhar Possibly a pertek interface. behemoth.linc.com NetBSD 1.5 pmax mipsel From wonko at arkham.ws Fri Jul 13 21:06:47 2001 From: wonko at arkham.ws (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 10:06:19PM -0400 References: <20010713215210.V462@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: <20010713220647.W462@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 10:06:19PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > How about on my DS5840/VAX6000? Doesn't have MFM. i don't know about DEC, but i know Sun used to use that connector for SCSI. -brian From wonko at arkham.ws Fri Jul 13 21:07:56 2001 From: wonko at arkham.ws (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: ; from linc@thelinuxlink.net on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 09:57:27PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010713220756.X462@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 09:57:27PM -0400, linc wrote: > > How about on my DS5840/VAX6000? Doesn't have MFM. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > Possibly a pertek interface. good point, didn't think about that. -brian From mac at Wireless.Com Fri Jul 13 16:58:10 2001 From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: swordfish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Are you kidding? Whatever happened to the Holodeck? geez... -mac On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > From: Sellam Ismail > Subject: Re: swordfish > > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > So what is the ideal visual machine? Opinions? > A computer that uses an IMAX screen as its output? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 13 20:28:15 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: References: <200107131641.f6DGfkH17412@narnia.int.dittman.net> <200107131540.f6DFewO11034@bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010713182751.02f97cc0@mail.zipcon.net> will an ultra 2 mainboard fit in an ultra 1 chassis? At 10:07 AM 7/13/01 -0700, you wrote: > >I wouldn't mind a SS20 at haul-away prices, even without CPUs. > >I've got a bunch of CPUs, just no box to put them in. > >The SS20 chassis themselves can be found in the $100-200 range, not to bad, >it's when you start adding the rest of the parts they get expensive. I got >"lucky" for $150 I got the chassis, 2 SM71's, and the internal CD-ROM. >Plus I already had a good stash of S-Bus cards, and a couple drive brackets >(from my SS5/70). So I only really had to add RAM, and I already had 16MB >so I could test it. > > >How expensive is a CPU-less Sparc Ultra? I can get a cheap > >360u CPU if I can get a cheap system without CPU. > >What chassis? An Ultra 2 Chassis still goes for big bucks. Me, I need an >Ultra 2 case and CPU's, I've got a Motherboard with a dead Ethernet >connection. I'd love a nice loaded Ultra 2, that would make a *really* >nice home UNIX box! > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Jul 13 21:15:43 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: The Imlac may live for VCF! In-Reply-To: <200107131540.f6DFewO11034@bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com> References: <20010713144231.37372.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010713211543.00885810@ubanproductions.com> Well, I managed to find some time to see if the old Imlac would fire up in time for VCF East. It hasn't run in probably 10 years and so I pulled all of the cards, plugged it in and turned on the switch. Poof! The main fuse blew -- darn! After a quick look over, I put in a new fuse and tried it one more time. This time it didn't blow and some of the supplies actually came up. I reseated a couple of edge connectors and tried one more time and all five main supplies came up! Woohoo!!! If things continue with this much luck, I may decide to bring this beast to VCF East this year... If not there is always next year. More news as it occurs. --tom From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 13 21:17:51 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: DEC stuff free in Austin, TX Message-ID: <20010713211751.T4908@mrbill.net> I've got two MicroVAX IIs (in the big BA123 cases) and a rackmountable (missing the rack mounts, unfortunately) horizontal-load 9track tape drive of some kind (havent had time to look at it yet) free for pickup in Austin, TX. All of this will fit in the back of a pickup truck or station wagon (was delivered in an old late-70s station wagon). bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 21:24:18 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: <200107140203.f6E232s15083@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 13, 2001 07:03:02 PM Message-ID: <200107140224.f6E2OIo19772@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:27PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > > > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > > > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > > > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. > > > > it's the MFM "Extention" cable. you can put external MFM devices on it. > > > > -brian > > That's one *seriously* old VAXserver 3100 then. Only the very first ones > used MFM disks as I understand it (I've never actually seen one). The MFM controller on the 3100s was for the floppy drive, I believe. I have a VS3100 with the MFM/SCSI controller and the MFM side is for the floppy drive. The connector may be a multiple serial port connector. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 13 22:05:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <820.595T1300T2454637optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >Over here, I'd recoment getting a BBC Micro. Over here, I'd recommend a C64, since that's really what you can expect to find without too much effort or time. Then you'd have to find a cartridge with an assembler. Are there any other micros (perhaps ones in my collection) with built-in monitors? As opposed to some people's recommendation to use a very basic system, such as a microprocessor tutor, in order to learn, I'd prefer a machine with more bells and whistles. It's a lot more fun if the memory addresses are mapped to a flashy border or a blippy-bloppy speaker. The C64 has also got the advantage of being very well-documented and still having a rather active scene. Oh, C128 has got a built-in monitor, now that I think about it. And a great BASIC to boot. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 13 22:07:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <454.595T1550T2475471optimus@canit.se> Master of all that Sucks skrev: >Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell >on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem >5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. SCSI most probably. Or did the VAX 3100 use that HONDA68 connector? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I use OpenBSD 'coz it has a cool blowfish logo. The other BSDs look satanic. - Anonymous Coward From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 13 20:43:26 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <20010713195045.21761.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010713184253.04298b80@mail.zipcon.net> Many of the Macintosh Fixed Frequency monitors will work fine with a sun :) At 12:50 PM 7/13/01 -0700, you wrote: >--- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > >> I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! - > stuff > > > > I WISH!!!! I've been looking for working Sun Monitors around here and they > > aren't to be found! I can't even find a working GDM-1962, though I've > > found 4 dead ones! > >I can keep my eyes out. Let me know offline what you are looking for and I'll >beat the bushes. Older Sony monitors are much easier to find than anything >else, of course, and weigh a ton. > > > Anyone know if you can hook a IBM P200 up to a Sparc? IIRC, the 13W3 > > pinout is different. I recently got one and have it hooked up to my Linux > > box. I love the P200's, I've also got one on my Linux box at work. > >I do not know much about any other 13W3 monitors, except that SGI also has >their own 13W3 pinout, but you can make a swabber. > > > >I wish I can find Ultrix-32 for the Vax. > > >I'm going to look for Linux Decnet... > > > > Get the Ancient UNIX License, IIRC, the PUPS archive has Ultrix-32. > > Remember though, it's a VAX, it *SHOULD* be running OpenVMS!!! > >What versions? I have distro kits for lots of VAX Ultrix releases in the >1986 - 1994 timeframe. Mostly on 16MT9, but a couple of TK50s. I'd be >happy to see these preserved. I even recently found some SYSV and SYSIII >magtapes. No idea if they can still be read. My only working tape drive >is a TU80 that hasn't been powered on in a couple of years (just got some >TE16s last year that were stripped for sensors before they got to me; might >still be able to get a TapeStretcher-11 that was hooked to a 11/750 I got >from a company in Dayton some time ago). I'd love to have a SCSI magtape >drive to make it easier to capture tape images - just fire up the laptop >with the APA1460 card and off I go! > >My first UNIX experience was 4.1BSD on an 11/750 (and I _have_ that exact >machine). My first UNIX adminstration experience was loading Ultrix 1.1 >onto an 11/730 (got that one, too!). It was once known as >...ihnp4!cbosgd!osu-eddie!osucis!kpanda, or something very close to that. > >We always had to support both VMS and Ultrix/BSD for our customers. I never >threw away a single manual or distribution tape the entire time I was there. >Fortunately, the boss let me back the truck up against the door as my final >paycheck. The stuff I had to leave behind (sniff)... > >-ethan > > >===== >Visit "The Seventh Continent" >http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 13 20:48:54 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107140201.f6E21Qx15022@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010713184816.03a38b50@mail.zipcon.net> Heck, portland isn't that far south (I'm in Renton, WA, just a wee bit SE of seattle) there are places around here that hav sun monitors. At 07:01 PM 7/13/01 -0700, you wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > >> I got a 20E20 from OSU surplus for $20 and a 17Esomething for $15! > - stuff > > > > > > I WISH!!!! I've been looking for working Sun Monitors around here > and they > > > aren't to be found! I can't even find a working GDM-1962, though I've > > > found 4 dead ones! > > > > Define "around here". I have a couple color and mono monitors from > > Sparc-1's that I could get rid of. Keeps them out of the landfill. > > And before anybody asks, no, I would not even consider trying to > > package and ship them anywhere. > >Portland, OR. And, don't worry, I wouldn't even consider shipping! > > > Ummm. No. Ultrix-32 is not covered by the Ancient Unix License and > > the last time I talked with Warren it was not available. Ultrix-11 > > is, but I hardly think that will run on a VAX. Of course, none of the > > above precludes running Ultrix-32 on a VAX as Compaq doesn't seem to > > care enough about it to even talk to anyone about it. > >Better go take a look at the PUPS archive. V1.0 and V1.2 is on it as near >as I can tell. I looked earlier this afternoon. I detailed what I found in >an earlier message. > > Zane From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 13 21:40:30 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: DEC stuff free in Austin, TX In-Reply-To: <20010713211751.T4908@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jul 13, 2001 09:17:51 PM Message-ID: <200107140240.f6E2eUa19841@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I've got two MicroVAX IIs (in the big BA123 cases) and a > rackmountable (missing the rack mounts, unfortunately) horizontal-load > 9track tape drive of some kind (havent had time to look at it > yet) free for pickup in Austin, TX. All of this will fit in the back > of a pickup truck or station wagon (was delivered in an old late-70s > station wagon). You don't happen to make any trips to Dallas, do you? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jul 13 22:04:32 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: OT oil shortage References: <333.593T1000T8934437optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B4FB6C0.4705BDDA@greenbelt.com> Oops sorry. I guess I got caught up with the politics of it all. Thanks for pointing it out. I see you added to the post with nothing except less of it. :)(: Eric Iggy Drougge wrote: > Master of all that Sucks skrev: > > >Isn't Royal Dutch Shell Group still larger than ExxonMobil? > > >Peace... Sridhar > > Congratulations, Sridhar and Chomko! Like the true IT professionals you are, > you have managed to splice a one-liner on top of 250 lines of unedited, quoted > material! > Wow, that's competent. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 13 22:21:40 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <820.595T1300T2454637optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010713202045.03b031e0@mail.zipcon.net> the early macs at least also have a built in ROM-Monitor :) probably the later ones too, although I think that they stopped including in the powermac series. At 04:05 AM 7/14/01 +0100, you wrote: >Tony Duell skrev: > > >Over here, I'd recoment getting a BBC Micro. > >Over here, I'd recommend a C64, since that's really what you can expect to >find without too much effort or time. Then you'd have to find a cartridge with >an assembler. Are there any other micros (perhaps ones in my collection) with >built-in monitors? > >As opposed to some people's recommendation to use a very basic system, such as >a microprocessor tutor, in order to learn, I'd prefer a machine with more >bells and whistles. It's a lot more fun if the memory addresses are mapped to >a flashy border or a blippy-bloppy speaker. > >The C64 has also got the advantage of being very well-documented and still >having a rather active scene. > >Oh, C128 has got a built-in monitor, now that I think about it. And a great >BASIC to boot. > >-- >En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 13 21:27:13 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: "History" of computing (was: Great new addition to collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > At Lincoln's request, I did some stopwatch tests on PC-DOS 1.00 in > 5150 in terms of time to boot, etc. > It was at the same time as a thread during the middle of March here about > whether there had ever been a 1.00 by people who didn't get into the PC > until later. > YOU started that thread with: > > Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the > > first production release was 1.10? Yes, I remember now. This was, in fact, prompted by Lincoln sending me a message asking this question :) > Then I sold my original of 1.00 to somebody on the list. Score! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Jul 13 22:35:21 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > The Apple][ is not a terribly good system for introducing someone to > > microcomputers for a couple of pretty simple reasons. (1) it was > > designed from the ground up as a video game, with emphasis and many > > compromises on the graphics and little real attention to the more > > basic aspects of computing. (2) it was designed around BASIC, rather > > Here we go again. At the risk of offending Dick with historical fact, the > Apple ][ was NOT "designed from the ground up as a video game". > Certainly it implemented graphics and sound features, but these were just > clever hacks by Woz that added these powerful features without significant > additional circuitry. > > I don't know why I even welcome the eventual flood of nonsense from our > friend Dick by even bothering to respond to his message, but nonsense > coming from anyone should not go unanswered. > Sellam, as I would agree with you regarding Dick politically, I think in this instance, though you disagree with him regarding the Apple II and its ability to serve as a microprocessor test system, I think we should at least acknowledge the on-topic aspect of his post. > > > than around a more elementary debugger/assembler, though there were, > > in the later models, provisions for assembler, which is probably the > > BZZZT. Wrong again, the original Apple ][, as I just previously > mentioned, had an assembler built into the ROM. > Okay, this I'd like to play around with. > > Thanks for playing. Your consolation prize is a vat of molten iron. > > Just to keep things in perspective, when Woz designed the Apple-1, and > subsequently, by way of evolving the design, the Apple ][, he very much > had in mind the design elements and structure of mini-computers of the > day. Woz told me personally that he was very inspired by the design of > the Data General Nova (mostly because of the simplicity of it's > circuitry). The big difference was that the Apple was designed around a > cheap microprocessor, rather than implementing his own processor, which I > think even you will agree makes more sense, considering the time > (1975-76). The monitor feature was there from the start, and was the main > interface by which the user interacted with or programmed the computer. > Creating a BASIC interpreter was obviously an attempt to make the computer > more immediately useful to the average computer geek of the time. > Yes, that made me interested. I think I sold the first one in No. VA, prior to Computerland. > > > best tool for learning about the architecture and about microcomputers > > in general. That doesn't make it a bad choice as a first computer, > > but it does mean one has to take a number of things into > > consideration. I don't think it matters terribly whether one has an > > Apple][, ][+, ][c, or ][e, in that regard. They all have the same > > entaglements with the video hardware, hence, don't allow much > > understanding of the workings of the system until a pretty complete > > understanding of how NTSC video works is acquired. > > More nonsense. The Apple ][ is a very good introduction to modern day > PCs. It's cheap, abundant, and easy to use and program. > > > The video-targeted compromises made in the Apple][, e.g. splitting the > > video memory into separate portions, serve to make the process of > > learning about the interaction of the video subsystem and rest of the > > machine more cumbersome, though, ultimately, that's not a bad thing. > > What better way to learn about video than to HAVE to confront the video > system limitations head on and basically write code to emulate what would > amount to video hardware in other machines? > > Anyway, I'm putting my armor back on in anticipation of the impending > battle. > Came from a family feud in Texas. Can't we all just get along? Eric > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 13 22:38:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: from "Geoff Reed" at Jul 13, 2001 06:28:15 PM Message-ID: <200107140338.f6E3cFG18434@shell1.aracnet.com> > will an ultra 2 mainboard fit in an ultra 1 chassis? Not a chance, the Ultra 2 is quite a bit larger than an Ultra 1, plus the Ultra 1 is a non-changable single cpu system while the Ultra 2 can have one or two CPUs and they are changeable. Zane From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Jul 13 22:58:22 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like a part of a DMB32 (?) for Decnet WAN conections. The VAX 6000 I used to admin had one as part of Shared Medical Systems worldwide DECnet network in the early ninetys. On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > How about on my DS5840/VAX6000? Doesn't have MFM. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:27PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > > > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > > > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > > > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. > > > > it's the MFM "Extention" cable. you can put external MFM devices on it. > > > > -brian > > > -- From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 13 23:28:36 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: MS/PC-DOS replacements (was: "History" of computing) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Speaking of MS-DOS or PC-DOS, how many here recall using improved MS-DOS replacements, overlays or "environments?" For example, Wendin-DOS and it's UNIX-like and VMS-like emulation, or such multi-tasking and multi-user envorinments that ran on top of MS/PC-DOS such as VMiX? I remember first using VMiX to attach terminals to PeeCees as well as using this with a second monitor - I had both a Hercules color VGA card as well as a Hercules monochrome graphics adapter in the system and used both displays at one time. Sometimes VMiX would work and I could run my BBS (using the QuickBBS software) while also doing other things with the system. Alas, I never sent in the registration fee for VMiX and hence never got the full technical details/documentation, etc. that would have supposedly made it more useful. Did anyone here ever register it and get that info.? This reminds me... I've got to figure out how to write a program to extract all of the old messages from the QuickBBS database files and save them as text files. Getting back to Wendin-DOS, I understand that it's creator ended up being sucked into Microsoft as an employee. Does anyone know how many small companies that could have been good competetion got sucked up that way into the black hole known as Microsoft? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dan at ekoan.com Fri Jul 13 23:32:41 2001 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Update: Re: MicroVAX equipment Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010714002127.01e5d920@www.rdss.com> On Thursday, 12 Jul 2001 at 18:04:08 +0200 "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > The uVax1000 is for real time purposes. A uVax II with a level of memory > management removed. Ran typically VaxEln. Last year I desperately needed > one to expand an industrial control application. We found one. Wim is correct, and I miscopied the information from the front of the machine. I went back to the warehouse and it actually says "rt 1000" where the "rt" is in a cursive-like script. Must have been too many machines in that warehouse and not enough light. Sorry for any confusion. I did pick up an HP 9000/C110, CPU only. Is anyone familiar with these machines? This box has the A4071B graphics card installed, but I don't have one of the two monitors HP says must be used. Will a standard PC-type VGA monitor work, or do I really need to find an HP A4032A or A4033A? I also picked up the DEC MicroServer (DEMSA-A) as well as a nifty little data line monitor called the ByteBug (model 625) made by Hard Engineering out of Huntsville, Alabama, in the early 1980's. Google didn't turn up anything on either the ByteBug or Hard Engineering. By any chance has anyone heard of them? Cheers, Dan From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Jul 14 00:14:27 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Free PDP-11/30 in Urbana, IL, USA References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010712191005.00cefa70@pc> Message-ID: <3B4FD533.83A84F2E@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi John, has it been claimed? I am in Indianapolis, only 3 hours away. Would take it. Thanks, -Gunther John Foust wrote: > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:28:53 -0500 > To: Greenkeys@qth.net > From: Bill Henry > Subject: [GreenKeys] PDP-11 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > Sender: owner-greenkeys@qth.net > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: Bill Henry > Status: > > Anyone have the hots for a PDP-11/30 - circa 1980? It's sitting here in Urbana, IL. Worked last time we used it - maybe 10 years ago. Includes CRT terminal, 3 hard disk drives (the BIG drives) 2 floppy drives (also BIG), 3/4 height DEC rack (about 4 1/2 ft.). RSX-11 Operating System, Runoff Word Processor, VERY early Basic. > > Call me if you're serious. The price is right - and no charge for the dust. > > Bill Henry > HAL Communications Corp. > 367-7373 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > George W. (Bill) Henry Internet: ghenry@halcomm.com > President WWW: halcomm.com > HAL Communications Corp. Phone: 217-367-7373 > 1201 W. Kenyon Rd. FAX: 217-367-1701 > Urbana, Illinois 61801 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > Submissions: greenkeys@qth.net -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 14 00:16:21 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Update: Re: MicroVAX equipment6 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010714002127.01e5d920@www.rdss.com> from "Dan Veeneman" at Jul 14, 2001 12:32:41 AM Message-ID: <200107140516.f6E5GL420301@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I also picked up the DEC MicroServer (DEMSA-A)... Are you going to route X25 or SNA? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 14 02:21:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX In-Reply-To: <20010713124430.C1407@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010714072131.74116.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:31AM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > There is a suns-at-home list that people with personal SPARC hardware might > > consider joining. General information about the mailing list is at: > > http://www.net-kitchen.com/mailman/listinfo/suns-at-home > > Suns-at-home isnt very active at all. True, it's not terribly active, but I have found it to be useful over the years. > You might want to consider one of the SunHELP lists instead: Maybe _I_ should get on those (as if I need more to read ;-) > I have no "vested interest", I just happen to run all of the above. 8-) > > Bill And a wonderful job you do. Thanks! -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 14 02:59:57 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <1011.594T850T13664951optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >>The good emulations look EXACTLY like the original games, because they >>actually run the original rom code. Fancy controllers and building kiosks >>just make the illusion complete. > >First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect emulation. >Secondly, even the CRTs differ. Might not matter if you've got bad eyesight, >though. Human eyes at best are no great test to perfect emulation. Nostalgia for the original can cloud your perceptions though, fortunately I live in an area with dozens of huge arcades that include the old games in free sections. I prefer a modern crt under emulation, to the old TV style original displays. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 14 03:27:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Final Fantasy In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713174616.009f8d40@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I took my son to see Final Fantasy, and the level of the graphics was close to amazing. In a couple years its going to be spooky in the sense that main characters will I bet be mixed between actors and animation with detection of which is which not very easy. For now its real easy, and this movie has an eerily, almost drawn as opposed to cartoon in any sense feel to it. The reason I mention the movie though is the really cool presentation of the "future" human/machine interface, lots of floating holo stuff. Things that tap naturally into the nerd lust centers of the brain. Also the fighters had the best looking armor I have seen, very techy neato. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 14 03:37:38 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: References: <6f.17f72855.2880bab3@aol.com> Message-ID: >I have more Apple ]['s that //c+'s :) IIe IIgs IIc IIc+ II+ II Ranked by what I see around, and given that I have been "casually" looking for a II for good year or so (right after I stopped noticing them). I have half a dozen or so IIc+, so have stopped buying them, and stopped on the IIc some time ago. I snoop in IIe and IIgs computers, but don't generally bring any more home. I still have a dream of some surplus industrial lot with a Apple II and a Eventide board in it (audio spectrum analyzer). From michael at unixiron.org Sat Jul 14 03:55:07 2001 From: michael at unixiron.org (Michael Kukat) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: <20010713220647.W462@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: Hi ! On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 10:06:19PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > > How about on my DS5840/VAX6000? Doesn't have MFM. > > i don't know about DEC, but i know Sun used to use that connector for SCSI. On then VAX 4000/10x and some MicroVAXes, this is used for the QBus, but you have 2 of them then, one male and one female. Pertec also matches, but there you also usually have 2 connectors. Last case: serial multiplexer, but the DEC stuff used Centronic connectors for that usually. ...Michael -- visit http://www.bsdfans.org/ Home network powered by: NetBSD OpenBSD FreeBSD Solaris HP-UX IRIX AIX MUNIX Tru64 Ultrix VMS SINIX Dolphin_Unix OpenStep MacOS From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 14 03:56:16 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <820.595T1300T2454637optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: Given the talent on this list maybe we should come up with a little tutorial on using a vintage system like an Apple IIe etc. as a microprocessor learning station? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 14 04:12:52 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Brian Hechinger "Re: VAXserver 3100 question" (Jul 13, 22:07) References: <20010713220756.X462@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: <10107141012.ZM6936@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 13, 22:07, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 09:57:27PM -0400, linc wrote: > > > How about on my DS5840/VAX6000? Doesn't have MFM. > > > > Possibly a pertek interface. > > good point, didn't think about that. But a Pertec interface uses *two* 50-way connectors. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 14 06:51:42 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: MS/PC-DOS replacements (was: "History" of computing) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There was DrDos and 4Dos (also known as Norton NDos) as well. 4Dos I remember well as I still use it regularly on my old 5150 PC. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:29 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: MS/PC-DOS replacements (was: "History" of computing) -> -> -> -> Speaking of MS-DOS or PC-DOS, how many here recall using improved -> MS-DOS replacements, overlays or "environments?" For example, -> Wendin-DOS -> and it's UNIX-like and VMS-like emulation, or such multi-tasking and -> multi-user envorinments that ran on top of MS/PC-DOS such as VMiX? -> -> I remember first using VMiX to attach terminals to PeeCees as well as -> using this with a second monitor - I had both a Hercules color VGA -> card as well as a Hercules monochrome graphics adapter in the system -> and used both displays at one time. Sometimes VMiX would work and I -> could run my BBS (using the QuickBBS software) while also doing other -> things with the system. Alas, I never sent in the registration fee -> for VMiX and hence never got the full technical details/documentation, -> etc. that would have supposedly made it more useful. Did anyone here -> ever register it and get that info.? -> -> This reminds me... I've got to figure out how to write a program -> to extract -> all of the old messages from the QuickBBS database files and save them as -> text files. -> -> Getting back to Wendin-DOS, I understand that it's creator ended up -> being sucked into Microsoft as an employee. Does anyone know how many -> small companies that could have been good competetion got sucked up -> that way into the black hole known as Microsoft? -> -> -- -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> other animals: -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> above Nature & -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> to justify such -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -> From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 14 08:21:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Mending a TZ-30 Message-ID: <1001.595T2850T8616911optimus@canit.se> A while ago, we tried to stuff a TZ-30, which is the SCSI version of a TK-50, into a ?VAX 3100. Only some clumsy bastard managed to tear off the ribbon cable, which DEC stupidly enough had mounted externally to the entire case. The ribbon cable goes from a PCB on the back to a smaller one mounted on the head. Whereas the cable may be slid back and forth in a connector on the back PCB, it is "mounted" with a blob of glue on the head PCB. And that's exactly where it's been ripped off. =( Thus my question: Does anyone happen to know whether there are holes in the head PCB between which one could put normal wires and bypass the ribbon cable entirely? I've identified the holes and solder spots on the back PCB which represent the ribbon connector, but the ones on the head PCB aren't as clearly laid out. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sat Jul 14 08:35:31 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <200107140201.f6E21Qx15022@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Sparc-1's that I could get rid of. Keeps them out of the landfill. > > And before anybody asks, no, I would not even consider trying to > > package and ship them anywhere. > > Portland, OR. And, don't worry, I wouldn't even consider shipping! Too bad. But the offer stands for anyone else close enough to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre PA. to come by and pick one up. > > > Ummm. No. Ultrix-32 is not covered by the Ancient Unix License and > > the last time I talked with Warren it was not available. Ultrix-11 > > is, but I hardly think that will run on a VAX. Of course, none of the > > above precludes running Ultrix-32 on a VAX as Compaq doesn't seem to > > care enough about it to even talk to anyone about it. > > Better go take a look at the PUPS archive. V1.0 and V1.2 is on it as near > as I can tell. I looked earlier this afternoon. I detailed what I found in > an earlier message. > Interesting. Not very long ago I was discussing this with Warren and others on PUPS and the concensus (contrary to my belief) was that while Ultrix-11 was V7 based and therefore came under the Ancient Unix License. Ultrix-32 supposedly was based on a much later version and did not. It seems that it must be only the versions after 1.x that fall under this restriction. I wonder how close to Ultrix-11 the V1.x Ultrix-32 stuff is?? If they are very close (or possibly even from the same sources) it might make sense to go back to the earlier Ultrix-32 and then develop both of them at the same time. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 14 09:11:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <007201c10c6f$a5d83e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> At the risk of opening old wounds, I'd point out that there's a significant difference between microprocessors and microcomputing. While the one requires the other, and while the Apple][ is an adequate platform for microcomputING, it doesn't offer much support for learning much about microPROCESSORS, since they're a hardware device, and the Apple][ environment limits the user's access to such hardware features considerably. Microprocessors were developed, in large part, out of a need to reduce the amount of hardware that implementing various functions required. A good example would be a video terminal. The benefit that a microprocessor provides is that it allows the same logic, i.e. that in the CPU to be used for several purposes, while most functions in a comparable device fabricated using MSI/SSI logic functions, as was the custom prior to the availability of microprocessors, required that each function be discretely provided with dedicated logic. The business of learning about microPROCESSORs involves lots of things other than BASIC programming, assembler, or the availability of monitor ROMs, most of which are, in fact, hardware-related, rather than software-related. These are all very important with respect to microCOMPUTING, but, after all, the differences between microCOMPUTING and computing in general, are simply a matter of the choice of platform. The business of learning about microPROCESSORs involves issues such as system timing (not an easy thing to change in a video-dedicated environment), effective decoding techniques, (not an option in a fixed environment, particularly one requiring limitations on hardware/software interactions as the Apple][ imposes, doesn't lend itself to learning about the microPROCESSOR and its use. MicroCOMPUTING can be investigated on nearly any platform, but learning about microPROCESSORs is more a hardware process, certainly one requiring understanding of hardware/firmware interaction, but nevertheless one which is based in the way the microPROCESSOR works and not so much dependent on whether one is using a resident monitor or a cross-development software suite on a mainframe to generate the code under study. Apple][ is a fine place to do your software/firmware development, if you have the tools to support your effort. It won't allow you to do much of the stuff that microprocessors were used for back when the '70's and '80's, however. Microprocessors were, after all, not develped for the benefit of computer hobbyists. MicroCOMPUTING was not widely accepted as a form of COMPUTING until the PC was legitimized by the placement of the IBM logo on a microCOMPUTER. MicroPROCESSORS, however, were in wide use in appliances, switching systems, communication devices, etc. by then. The Apple was a nice video-based and clearly graphics-targeted system. At the time it was developed, there were few applications for the graphics, aside from games, and that's what Apple promoted early on. One important thing made it different from many other systems was that its designer(s) were clever enough to see that it could be applied in a much more general way than many of their predecessors had done, or even than their successors would do. They wisely cooked up a memory map that left fairly large contiguous regions of memory available for use by user programs, albeit interrupted by segments of graphics memory. Although the Apple was a decent platform for microCOMPUTING, the very features that made it desirable for the home user were likely to interfere with the process of learning about the details of microPROCESSORs and their application. Development of computing platforms, after all, was then, a really small part of the microprocessor market. No system as complex as the Apple could provide a particularly good environment for learning about the generalities of microPROCESSORs, if for no other reason than the number of compromises that are made in getting a system to completion. Microprocessors were devised in order to minimize the extent of the hardware required to implement a given function. Making a circuit general enough to provide a computing platform was probably not an initial goal. The fact that it was so easy to get there from the basic concept is, of course, one of the great things about this technology. As in that infamous previous thread, it seems some people have chosen to read what they wanted to read rather than was was written. That's not my fault, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 9:35 PM Subject: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > The Apple][ is not a terribly good system for introducing someone to > > > microcomputers for a couple of pretty simple reasons. (1) it was > > > designed from the ground up as a video game, with emphasis and many > > > compromises on the graphics and little real attention to the more > > > basic aspects of computing. (2) it was designed around BASIC, rather > > > > Here we go again. At the risk of offending Dick with historical fact, the > > Apple ][ was NOT "designed from the ground up as a video game". > > Certainly it implemented graphics and sound features, but these were just > > clever hacks by Woz that added these powerful features without significant > > additional circuitry. > > > > I don't know why I even welcome the eventual flood of nonsense from our > > friend Dick by even bothering to respond to his message, but nonsense > > coming from anyone should not go unanswered. > > > > Sellam, as I would agree with you regarding Dick politically, I think in this > instance, > though you disagree with him regarding the Apple II and its ability to serve as a > microprocessor test system, I think we should at least acknowledge the on-topic > aspect of his post. > > > > > > than around a more elementary debugger/assembler, though there were, > > > in the later models, provisions for assembler, which is probably the > > > > BZZZT. Wrong again, the original Apple ][, as I just previously > > mentioned, had an assembler built into the ROM. > > > > Okay, this I'd like to play around with. > > > > > Thanks for playing. Your consolation prize is a vat of molten iron. > > > > Just to keep things in perspective, when Woz designed the Apple-1, and > > subsequently, by way of evolving the design, the Apple ][, he very much > > had in mind the design elements and structure of mini-computers of the > > day. Woz told me personally that he was very inspired by the design of > > the Data General Nova (mostly because of the simplicity of it's > > circuitry). The big difference was that the Apple was designed around a > > cheap microprocessor, rather than implementing his own processor, which I > > think even you will agree makes more sense, considering the time > > (1975-76). The monitor feature was there from the start, and was the main > > interface by which the user interacted with or programmed the computer. > > Creating a BASIC interpreter was obviously an attempt to make the computer > > more immediately useful to the average computer geek of the time. > > > > Yes, that made me interested. I think I sold the first one in No. VA, prior to > Computerland. > > > > > > best tool for learning about the architecture and about microcomputers > > > in general. That doesn't make it a bad choice as a first computer, > > > but it does mean one has to take a number of things into > > > consideration. I don't think it matters terribly whether one has an > > > Apple][, ][+, ][c, or ][e, in that regard. They all have the same > > > entaglements with the video hardware, hence, don't allow much > > > understanding of the workings of the system until a pretty complete > > > understanding of how NTSC video works is acquired. > > > > More nonsense. The Apple ][ is a very good introduction to modern day > > PCs. It's cheap, abundant, and easy to use and program. > > > > > The video-targeted compromises made in the Apple][, e.g. splitting the > > > video memory into separate portions, serve to make the process of > > > learning about the interaction of the video subsystem and rest of the > > > machine more cumbersome, though, ultimately, that's not a bad thing. > > > > What better way to learn about video than to HAVE to confront the video > > system limitations head on and basically write code to emulate what would > > amount to video hardware in other machines? > > > > Anyway, I'm putting my armor back on in anticipation of the impending > > battle. > > > > Came from a family feud in Texas. Can't we all just get along? > > Eric > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 09:22:23 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010713202045.03b031e0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010713202045.03b031e0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: >the early macs at least also have a built in ROM-Monitor :) >probably the later ones too, although I think that they stopped >including in the powermac series. My B/W G3 still has the programmer's switch on the front panel and I believe that the G4's we have at work still do as well. I don't recall if the iMac's do or not. When pressed, it still drops you to the '>' prompt but none of the manuals that ship with the machines tell you anything about it. I've never been able to exit back out of it without rebooting, nor have I actually gotten it to show any of the info one generally does from a monitor program. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jul 14 09:41:39 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife References: <200107112318.f6BNIe609512@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B505A23.CEC2A629@tiac.net> Geez, My wife often helps me debug and program my vintage computers! She has gone collecting, but in general I try to keep her away from places where old stuff gets exchanged for money, lest she get the idea that this is a reversible process! And we do have an airplane too, but its not kept in a hanger. Thats an expense thats not needed. A tie-down parking spot at my local airport (FIT) only costs about $40 a month. Eric Dittman wrote: > > Mine decided that we needed to buy an airplane. This has since been > > revealed to have been a ploy to replace my hobby of collecting large, > > heavy items that clutter up the house and garage with a single large, > > heavy, item that clutters up the hangar. Fortunately, I've been able > > to see through her nefarious plan and am now planning a larger hanger > > which will accommodate both the aircraft and the machines. That'll teach > > her; I'll have three phase power, all of my machines in one place, none > > in the house and -- hey, wait a minute... > > I'd love to be able to buy an airplane, but I'd have to > move or rent a hanger. That's just a cost I don't need. > I also would have to get my pilot's license. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 14 09:42:03 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010714144203.90563.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > Over here, I'd recoment getting a BBC Micro... > Of course getting one in the States is not that easy... Unlike over here. When I wrote kiddie software in 1984-1985, we used to support it, even here in the States. We wrote stuff like "Micro Mother Goose", published under the Reader's Digest software label. I still have the C-64 source from what I did. Can't seem to find any distributions. :-( Unfortunately for me, I never worked on the Beeb (so I have no docs or code and never did). Two other guys at the company were the experts (we had 100% Apple expertise, 30% C-64 expertise and <20% Beeb expertise). >From what I could see, though, it looked like a cool machine. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 14 09:47:00 2001 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:43 2005 Subject: Mac Rom Debugger (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors) Message-ID: <1217000471-239405064@watermarkpress.com> >>the early macs at least also have a built in ROM-Monitor :) >>probably the later ones too, although I think that they stopped >>including in the powermac series. > > My B/W G3 still has the programmer's switch on the front > panel and I believe that the G4's we have at work still do as well. > I don't recall if the iMac's do or not. When pressed, it still drops > you to the '>' prompt but none of the manuals that ship with the > machines tell you anything about it. I've never been able to exit > back out of it without rebooting, nor have I actually gotten it to > show any of the info one generally does from a monitor program. > > Jeff http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1136.html Quote: About MicroBug MicroBug was first introduced with the Mac Plus and has been a standard component in the ROM of all Mac OS computers since then. MicroBug is invoked when the system takes a Non-Maskable Interrupt (NMI) and there is no other debugger (e.g., MacsBug) installed. ** I have been lurking here for about a month and am so excited I can finally contribute! :) -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 14 09:48:21 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Ultrix-32 was: Sparc at home References: Message-ID: <001501c10c74$1a5ebac0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gunshannon" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:35 AM Subject: Re: Sparc at home > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > Ummm. No. Ultrix-32 is not covered by the Ancient Unix License and > > > the last time I talked with Warren it was not available. Ultrix-11 > > > is, but I hardly think that will run on a VAX. Of course, none of the > > > above precludes running Ultrix-32 on a VAX as Compaq doesn't seem to > > > care enough about it to even talk to anyone about it. > > > > Better go take a look at the PUPS archive. V1.0 and V1.2 is on it as near > > as I can tell. I looked earlier this afternoon. I detailed what I found in > > an earlier message. I have TK50 tapes with Ultrix on them that came with the VAXstation II AQ-KU57B-BE ultrix ws v2.0 unsupp AQ-PB30A-BE U-32 V3.1/UWS V2.2 (VAX) upd AQ-JU00C-BE ultrix-32 V2.2 standalone AQ-KU57A-BE ultrix WS V1.1 unsupp AQ-LV82A-BE U-32 V2.2/UWS V1.2 TK50 S/W AQ-JU00E-BE ultrix-32 V3.0 standalone AQ-EE50D-BE DECNET-ULTRIX V2.2 bin tk50 AQ-HN37D-BE ultrix WS V2.0 supported TK50 I'm still looking for a BC18z cable and monitor to bring this machine back to life. The U-Haul dealer lost my reservation so I grabbed 2 card racks for the PDP 11/34 and had to leave the racks and 4 RK05 drives behind for another attempt. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 14 09:51:17 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010714145117.24336.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > The advantage of the ancient mice is that the quadrature encoder is > > mechanical, not optical, and a discrete component. Much easier to > > mount than a toothed plastic wheel molded onto a plastic shaft. > > The disadvantage is that the mechanical encoders have a much shorter life > (the contacts wear out). True. > Personally, if I was going to do a mod like this, I'd probably start from > an old trackball mechanism. They're bigger, easier to work on, and a lot > more solid. Most trackballs have optical encoders, but the parts are > large enough to remount on a new chassis. That is one way to do it. This mouse was $1. The shaft was strong enough to screw a knob right to it. The "right" way is to have some gearing and a flywheel for the right feel for Tempest or Arkanoid, but I did this in an evening. You can buy the right thing from places like Happ. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:51:32 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: ID an emulex Unibus board anyone? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802164302.00d9ac70@208.226.86.10> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802161001.00c73b30@208.226.86.10> <20000802225054.26019.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107141451.JAA10251@opal.tseinc.com> At 16:47 02-08-2000 -0700, Chuck wrote: >Ok, the "fibre channel company" disavows any knowledge of having ever >produced cards for Unibus :-) I've got three boards that are made by >Emulex, go in the Unibus and are marked CS2110203/H2B. There are two 50 pin >connectors on the top (channel 0-7, 8-15), an LED labelled "fault", and two Exactly right on your guess that they're comm controllers. The kicker is that, in order to function properly, I believe they require the specific Emulex distribution panel. I could be wrong about that. I also (fuzzily) recall that the CS21 may in fact have RS232 outputs directly on those 50-pin headers. Are there a bunch of RS232 line driver/receiver chips right below said headers? From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:51:36 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Info Needed: QBus board Message-ID: <200107141451.JAA10261@opal.tseinc.com> I have a dual-height QBus board from Micro Technology that I cannot identify. I suspect it's a tape/disk/both controller. Model is MQD19. It has the following headers: 2x10-pin, 1x20-pin, 1x34-pin, 1x60-pin. Any ideas? Thanks much. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:52:00 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: 3 Days in San Jose, hits/pits In-Reply-To: References: <200008040032.RAA31554@shell1.aracnet.com> <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Aug 03, 2000 07:20:35 PM Message-ID: <200107141452.JAA10276@opal.tseinc.com> At 23:19 06-08-2000 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >ES Electronic Solutions on Brokaw, not too exciting. Too well organized >(shelves of cardboard bins with contents marked) and fully retail priced >stuff. I bought a few coax crimp connectors from the clearance bin, and Huh? Excess Solutions is one of the best possible places for small parts and oddities like rack slides. I've shopped at them frequently, and would not call many of their prices anywhere near "fully retail." I'm sorry you didn't find them that helpful. >enough new stuff to keep people coming in. I found a box of Apple II/PC >joysticks and bought all the A2 compatible ones, but mostly it was like the >first place. There I will agree. His test gear prices are, for the most part, way too high. >RA, on Walsh east of Layfette. Nice BIG warehouse of junk electronics, but >computer stuff was just incidental. I found a box of junk connectix RA is mainly industrial stuff. I got a good deal on a pair of HP power supplies when I was there in July, but they've been (unfortunately) thoroughly contaminated by E-pay for the most part. They have a guy who cherry-picks through their test gear, and weeds out the better stuff for auction. >HSC, off the central expressway, no idea how I got to it. Very much like >the first two places, too tidy, too retail. This isn't really that bad, I >nothing got me excited during the visit. Some prices were comically high, >but some were OK if you needed the item. Big collection of data books to You must have spotted the same stripped-down/overpriced Compaq servers that I saw. ;-) HSC has a horrid habit of senseless cherry-picking, and those servers were a great example. The morons in the warehouse stripped out the CPU boards, bagged 'em, and (over)priced them separately from the already-overpriced cases. As for their test gear, don't even get me started. Do you know they've had much of the same stuff in their as-is test gear section for at least three, maybe as long as four years, all because they just won't lower the prices? As for gas, food, and hotel rates, I'm a little surprised. Gas should have come down a bit by now. Food's always been expensive. I'm stunned that any Holiday Inn would be able to get that kind of rate for any sort of room. I'm deeply grateful that I have relatives to stay with during my scrounge trips. I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to go farther north, up into San Leandro, and visit Quinn Electronics. They're still very much a surplus store in the truest sense of the word. Gather a pile, bring it up front, and haggle on a price. I do hope your trip held enough hits to make it worth running over the pits. ;-) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:52:05 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: SAIC RSC-1x (MOCC) Portable Workstation In-Reply-To: <200008071949.MAA03979@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200107141452.JAA10282@opal.tseinc.com> At 15:46 07-08-2000 -0500, Tom Owad wrote: >a LAMBDA, 24VDC, 10.5 A. I don't have a military connector, so I've been >sticking the wires onto the pins. I managed to get the system to power on. Tom, I'm a reseller for mil-spec connectors. From the pictures you took, I think I recognize the power connector it's using. If it's what I think it is, you're lucky in that it's a very common (and inexpensive) item. If you can provide me with some numbers from the connector itself (look on the shell and the insert -- the insert will likely have '14-3' or some such thing on it), I can quote you a mating plug for it so you can keep it in original condition. I speak IPC/IPX. If you still have questions after getting this (I suspect others may have already responded to you), just ask. I'll answer if I can. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:52:11 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: FW: Vintage Calculator Restore Message-ID: <200107141452.JAA10288@opal.tseinc.com> Got the attached in the evening's mail. If anyone on the list can help, please contact Mitch directly. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- >Delivered-To: kyrrin@mail-sttl.uswest.net >Delivered-To: alias-bluefeathertech.com-kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 20:03:52 -0400 From: "mbillian" >To: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) >X-Accept-Language: en >Subject: Vintage Calculator Restore > >Bruce, was wondering if you might be able to help me restore a piece of >obselete equipment. I recently acquired a Compucorp 140 (nixie) desktop >calculator which works perfectly, however it's missing 3 keys: 'chg >sign' key, 'reset' key and the key with 2 bell shaped curves on it. I >would buy the keys or ones of the same style with different >markings. Let me know if you could suppy them or know of a source. >Here is a picture: >http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510/compucorp140.html > >thanks > >Mitch > > > > > > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:52:18 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Monitors that are keepers? In-Reply-To: References: <399077C9.3966.D34BD7A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 8, 0 09:12:41 pm Message-ID: <200107141452.JAA10303@opal.tseinc.com> At 16:21 09-08-2000 -0800, you wrote: >Which monitors are the ones to look for and keep? I don't think it's "classic" quite yet, but the Sony OEM monitors that they did for Sun are, in many cases, well worth grabbing if the price is right. This is especially true of any Sun monitor that says it's a '20E20' on the back. Despite the 13W3 connector, it is fully multiscanning. I believe it's equivalent in feature set to the commercial version, the 20SF. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:53:10 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Thoughts on a datascope Message-ID: <200107141453.JAA10340@opal.tseinc.com> Fellow classiccmp'ers, I have an interesting situation here. It's a 12-year old datascope, made by Atlantic Research (their 'Interview 7500'). I had it apart last night to clean the innards and replace a noisy fan, and I was struck by how beautifully made it was. Fully modularized, plasma display up front, dual floppies, and the entire case made out of that heavy resin-style plastic, sprayed on the inside with conductive coat for shielding. And yet, in the midst of all that gorgeous engineering, there was one fly in the ointment. The unit boots and runs off an ancient Kyocera(!) 20 meg MFM hard drive, run from a dedicated controller port on one of the boards. Now, I know darn good and well that older hard drives tend to be pretty rugged, especially the lower densities. However, I have no backups, floppy or otherwise, for the unit's OS, and I've not had any luck so far finding boot/run floppies for it. I'm fortunate in that it's still working quite well, but I'm also painfully aware that I might be running on borrowed time. Inrange Technology bought out AR's entire line of datascopes, and I do have an inquiry going with them. However, I'm not holding my breath due to the age of the unit. The core CPU in the unit is a Motorola 68010, so it's a pretty safe bet that the OS is not DOS-based. This means the hard drive would likely be unreadable to a PC if hitched, say, to a WD MFM board. Any thoughts on how I can back this beastie up? Anyone done anything with this line of datascope? Thanks much. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:53:05 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-trackers available Message-ID: <200107141453.JAA10334@opal.tseinc.com> I've just put up two SCSI 9-track tape drives (front autoloaders) on Haggle under 'Drives.' The first one is a SCSI-SE M4 Data 9914 at: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202390084 The second is a SCSI-DIFF interface HP 88780 (Tandem 5190 badged) at: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202390090 The 9914 is known to be working, if a bit dinged cosmetically. The 88780 is unknown condition at this time, but it was pulled out of a working system. I may be able to do a basic power-on test for it in the near future. FWIW, the M4 drive is still a current/supported product. The 88780 may or may not be. I'm -really- reluctant to ship these because of size/weight. With either unit, you'd be looking at shipping costs of around $170 ($100 for a custom box, another $70 or so for ground shipping and insurance). So, unless you're not local to the area and are REALLY desperate for a SCSI 9-tracker, I'd prefer local pickup. Thanks much. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:53:23 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: <000501c00b6b$b01164b0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <200107141453.JAA10346@opal.tseinc.com> At 07:30 21-08-2000 -0500, Francois wrote: >Not ten year old yet but urgent... >Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and >190. >The article at: >http://www.pbzone.com/index.shtml#applestore So, in essence, they're trying desperately to weasel out of fixing units that were defective from their plant to begin with. How incredibly cheesy. This -really- makes me want to buy something from Apple... NOT! From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jul 14 09:53:27 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Thoughts on a datascope In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB082@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <200107141453.JAA10352@opal.tseinc.com> At 15:16 21-08-2000 -0400, you wrote: >> Any thoughts on how I can back this beastie up? Anyone >> done anything with this line of datascope? > >No experience with this device, but you could try this: > >Remove the HD and attached it as the second drive in an >old bootable PC that already has one MFM drive. You'll The problem with that (yes, I'll try it at some point) is, with MFM, the drive's format was entirely dependent on what chip the controller was using. If the controller in the datascope isn't using the same chip as in, say, a WD1003, 1006, or other controller, I'm pretty much screwed. Thanks, though. Perhaps I'll get lucky and find that AR used a PC-like format on the thing. It's certainly from the right era. >Then, assuming this datascope doesn't turn out to be an embedded DOS >machine (and thus the drive formatted as FAT12), use DEBUG under DOS >to load the boot sectors, then write to a .BIN file and set aside. All the above sounds great except for one thing... I lack the experience to translate it into step-by-step! >If it's loading more than 64k, you could just write a quick-n-dirty >program using your favorite language (unless that's COBOL!) to read >the datascope code in and store it in a binary file. Sorry. Won't work in my case. I speak an ancient version of DEC BASIC-PLUS, DOS batch language, and a tiny bit of shell scripting under AIX. Again, I lack the skill to write something like you describe. >However, as I said above, you may find this machine is an embedded >DOS machine, and the drive may already be readable, file by file. Let's hope so... From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 14 09:59:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Ultrix and PUPS (was Re: Sparc at home) In-Reply-To: <200107132050.f6DKogr32385@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010714145931.11597.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > OK, I just dug around to figure out what they've got up. It's odd, I could > have sworn they had stuff newer than V1.2! Geez, this is stuff I've > actually got the doc's for. I might have to setup a system running it > eventually. > > 32m-1.0-bin > Ultrix-32M V1.0 BIN; 1984 > 2 RX50 images; format unknown This is Ultrix32m, not exactly the same product as Ultrix32. It's like the difference between VMS and MicroVMS. Same stuff but packaged for early MicroVAXen. Notice that it's all on RX50. We did have an RX50 on our 11/750, but it was expensive and we only did it so we could cut distro floppies for our customers. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 14 10:35:08 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <3B505A23.CEC2A629@tiac.net> from "Bob Shannon" at Jul 14, 2001 10:41:39 AM Message-ID: <200107141535.f6EFZ8b21850@narnia.int.dittman.net> > My wife often helps me debug and program my vintage computers! > She has gone collecting, but in general I try to keep her away from > places where old stuff gets exchanged for money, lest she get the idea > that this is a reversible process! I used to tell my wife when I was selling stuff, but she always assumed I was going to do something with the money other than reinvest it in my hobby. Now I don't talk about selling stuff. > And we do have an airplane too, but its not kept in a hanger. Thats > an expense thats not needed. A tie-down parking spot at my local > airport (FIT) only costs about $40 a month. I guess that would work, but here in Texas I'd be worried about wind damage. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 14 10:37:33 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 14, 2001 01:37:38 AM Message-ID: <200107141537.f6EFbXa21858@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I have more Apple ]['s that //c+'s :) > > IIe > IIgs > IIc > IIc+ > II+ > II > > Ranked by what I see around, and given that I have been "casually" looking > for a II for good year or so (right after I stopped noticing them). I have > half a dozen or so IIc+, so have stopped buying them, and stopped on the > IIc some time ago. I snoop in IIe and IIgs computers, but don't generally > bring any more home. I'm going to Software Etc. this afternoon. They have some Apple II stuff. I'll let you know if they have a plain II. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 14 10:41:25 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: DEC stuff free in Austin, TX In-Reply-To: <200107140240.f6E2eUa19841@narnia.int.dittman.net>; from dittman@dittman.net on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 09:40:30PM -0500 References: <20010713211751.T4908@mrbill.net> <200107140240.f6E2eUa19841@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010714104125.F4908@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 09:40:30PM -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > > I've got two MicroVAX IIs (in the big BA123 cases) and a > > rackmountable (missing the rack mounts, unfortunately) horizontal-load > > 9track tape drive of some kind (havent had time to look at it > > yet) free for pickup in Austin, TX. All of this will fit in the back > > of a pickup truck or station wagon (was delivered in an old late-70s > > station wagon). > You don't happen to make any trips to Dallas, do you? Nope, and I dont have anything to transport these in right now, either... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 14 10:56:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Thoughts on a datascope References: <200107141453.JAA10352@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <002501c10c7d$82c246a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This might take a lower-level approach, because a simple thing like a different number of sectors or a different sector size will make the drive totally unreadable under DOS, or any other OS that doesn't use the same sector count and size. If you are brave enough to write some code to attempt to read a drive with different sector and gap sizes (those are programmable on a WD HDC, and most others) you might be able to recognize what's been done on your datascope's drive. I'd recommend you consider hard-wiring the write-gate to the disabled state on your HDD while you're trying to read/sample its contents. The WD HDC was very widely used, but not universal. SMC made a pretty good MFM HDC that was not compatible with the WD, as did ADAPTEC and others. The differences were mainly in address mark-related circuitry, but that's enough to foul up readability. IIRC, (somewhat of a stretch, BTW) you're pretty familiar with the CATWEASEL FD interface. A similar approach, with a sample rate that's a harmonic of the nominal data rate will enable you to acquire the data stored on your drive. Unfortunately, writing it back will require you reimpose the precompensation, since that's lost in the recovery process. You can use any controller you've got to move the heads around and to detect the INDEX pulse, however, so you don't have to build a whole controller. You just need code to step the head stack from track to track, switch the heads, and record the signal sampled from the read data line. Timing won't be critical beyond the business of getting the sampled data into a RAM. Since I don't know what the hardware on the CATWEASEL is, I don't know whether it is reasonable to consider using a faster (10x or so) crystal oscillator, but something on the order of 30-40 MHz might be worth a try if it looks like the logic is fast enough to get the job done. At precisely 10x the original rate, the software might even work without modification, and I seem to recall someone telling me that the sample rate isn't that critical. Who knows ... it might even work! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Lane" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:53 AM Subject: RE: Thoughts on a datascope > At 15:16 21-08-2000 -0400, you wrote: > > >> Any thoughts on how I can back this beastie up? Anyone > >> done anything with this line of datascope? > > > >No experience with this device, but you could try this: > > > >Remove the HD and attached it as the second drive in an > >old bootable PC that already has one MFM drive. You'll > > > > The problem with that (yes, I'll try it at some point) is, with MFM, the drive's format was entirely dependent on what chip the controller was using. If the controller in the datascope isn't using the same chip as in, say, a WD1003, 1006, or other controller, I'm pretty much screwed. > > Thanks, though. Perhaps I'll get lucky and find that AR used a PC-like format on the thing. It's certainly from the right era. > > >Then, assuming this datascope doesn't turn out to be an embedded DOS > >machine (and thus the drive formatted as FAT12), use DEBUG under DOS > >to load the boot sectors, then write to a .BIN file and set aside. > > > > All the above sounds great except for one thing... I lack the experience to translate it into step-by-step! > > >If it's loading more than 64k, you could just write a quick-n-dirty > >program using your favorite language (unless that's COBOL!) to read > >the datascope code in and store it in a binary file. > > Sorry. Won't work in my case. I speak an ancient version of DEC BASIC-PLUS, DOS batch language, and a tiny bit of shell scripting under AIX. Again, I lack the skill to write something like you describe. > > >However, as I said above, you may find this machine is an embedded > >DOS machine, and the drive may already be readable, file by file. > > Let's hope so... > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 14 11:11:31 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <522.594T2250T1945419optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >Zane H. Healy skrev: > >>>It's too bad SNK went under a few months ago. Now who will tend to my 2D >>>gaming interests? Arcade halls will never be the same again. =( > >>Say, what?!?!?! I know they pulled out of the US, but as far as I know >>they're still alive and well in Japan. In fact they just released "Metal >>Slug X" for the Playstation 1. > >I really hope I'm misinformed, then. Could be unprofessional journalism at >work. Probably bad from, but I'm going to reply to this a second time with some news I found out last night. http://www.neo-geo.com/ is a site dedicated to all things Neo Geo (best site I've been able to find btw). On their front page they have the following news items that indicate SNK is still around as of a couple weeks ago. 6/29/01 A reproduction of Metal Slug 3 home carts is under consideration by SNK. 6/06/01 Sengoku 3 released for MVS in limited quantities. The game weighs in @396 megs. In other news I'm finally having some luck on finding a Neo Geo cabinet. One of the local arcade chains has some, including a couple with "Metal Slug 3", the current value of MS3 makes those two machines worth what they want the others (except one) aren't really worth what they want. MS3 is one of the games on the top of my list that I want. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ernestls at home.com Sat Jul 14 11:24:15 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Visual 1050 (base) to give away In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have the base to a Visual 1050 to give away if anyone is interested. This the computer only, no keyboard or monitor -which you'll need if you want to use it. I don't know if it works but it's free. Let me know if you are interested. Ernest ernestls@home.com From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 14 10:25:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <007201c10c6f$a5d83e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > As in that infamous previous thread, it seems some people have chosen > to read what they wanted to read rather than was was written. That's > not my fault, though. In defense of those who have good reading and comprehension skills, it should be noted that some people have trouble expressing their thoughts in a clear and concise manner, and sometimes even contradickt themselves. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sat Jul 14 12:09:37 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife References: Message-ID: <003501c10c87$c465aac0$88f8fea9@98box> Isn't there a Neo Geo home system available??? I know SNK is still in business, i was considering buying a Neo Geo cabinet until i found the wonders of the classic Nintendo NES. Come to think of it, are +10 year old game consoles and arcade machines considered "classic computers"??? -Lanny ----- Original Message ----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: Re: Collecting vs. My Wife > >Zane H. Healy skrev: > > > >>>It's too bad SNK went under a few months ago. Now who will tend to my 2D > >>>gaming interests? Arcade halls will never be the same again. =( > > > >>Say, what?!?!?! I know they pulled out of the US, but as far as I know > >>they're still alive and well in Japan. In fact they just released "Metal > >>Slug X" for the Playstation 1. > > > >I really hope I'm misinformed, then. Could be unprofessional journalism at > >work. > > Probably bad from, but I'm going to reply to this a second time with some > news I found out last night. > > http://www.neo-geo.com/ is a site dedicated to all things Neo Geo (best > site I've been able to find btw). On their front page they have the > following news items that indicate SNK is still around as of a couple weeks > ago. > > 6/29/01 A reproduction of Metal Slug 3 home carts is under > consideration by SNK. > > 6/06/01 Sengoku 3 released for MVS in limited quantities. > The game weighs in @396 megs. > > In other news I'm finally having some luck on finding a Neo Geo cabinet. > One of the local arcade chains has some, including a couple with > "Metal Slug 3", the current value of MS3 makes those two machines worth > what they want the others (except one) aren't really worth what they want. > MS3 is one of the games on the top of my list that I want. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Jul 14 10:40:47 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107141540.f6EFel000342@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 13 Jul, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. On the older babyVAXen like the VAXserver 3100 this connector was an MFM interface to connect external MFM drives. On newer MicroVAXen there are two of these connectors with a QBus interface on them. I never saw a babyVAX with build in Pertec interface and the connectors for SCSI where HD SubD 68 or normal Centronics 50 pin. Serial multiplexers used 36 (?) pin Centronics connectors. I don't know what the connectors on the biger machines may be used for. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 12:36:34 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: <200107141453.JAA10346@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200107141453.JAA10346@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: > So, in essence, they're trying desperately to weasel out of >fixing units that were defective from their plant to begin with. > How incredibly cheesy. This -really- makes me want to buy >something from Apple... NOT! First off, they are recalling the A/C power adapters, not the Powerbook's themselves. Secondly they are offering an exchange for the A/C adapter. The URL for info on the exchange can be found at: http://exchange.info.apple.com/exchange/ I see nothing wrong with the way it's being handled since the exchange adapter is being provided free of charge. Where's the info showing they are trying to weasel out of fixing the unit? Some of the recalled adapters have been in use for nearly 3 years and are being recalled because of reports of them becoming somewhat hot during use and the recall is volentary on Apple's part. It's nothing like the previous recalls from Dell due to flaming batteries or from Apple concerning problem with the Powerbook 5300 series. For the 5300 series Apple even placed them under a much longer warranty period due to the problems. I believe the total time was something like 7 years for the total warranty. It sounds like they're taking care of the problems to me. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 12:38:26 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Mac Rom Debugger (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors) In-Reply-To: <1217000471-239405064@watermarkpress.com> References: <1217000471-239405064@watermarkpress.com> Message-ID: >MicroBug was first introduced with the Mac Plus and has been a standard >component in the ROM of all Mac OS computers since then. MicroBug is invoked >when the system takes a Non-Maskable Interrupt (NMI) and there is no other >debugger (e.g., MacsBug) installed. What debugger did the 128k have in it then? It shipped with a small switch that pressed both a recessed reset switch and a programmers switch. The switches were accessed through the side ventilation slots. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 14 12:50:57 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: ID an emulex Unibus board anyone? In-Reply-To: <200107141451.JAA10251@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010714175057.6772.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bruce Lane wrote: > At 16:47 02-08-2000 -0700, Chuck wrote: > > >Ok, the "fibre channel company" disavows any knowledge of having ever > >produced cards for Unibus :-) Corporate Amnesia - if you talked to anyone, they probably weren't older than those cards. :-) > >I've got three boards that are made by > >Emulex, go in the Unibus and are marked CS2110203/H2B. There are two 50 pin > >connectors on the top (channel 0-7, 8-15), an LED labelled "fault", and two > > > > Exactly right on your guess that they're comm controllers. The kicker is > that, in order to function properly, I believe they require the specific > Emulex distribution panel. > > I could be wrong about that. I also (fuzzily) recall that the CS21 may > in fact have RS232 outputs directly on those 50-pin headers. I inherited numerous CS21s from Software Results. Depending on what PALs are installed, they will show up as TTnn devices or TXnn devices. We used Nevada Western RJ11 modular stuff around the office, so our hardware guy made a pinswabber that massaged the 50-pin arrangement from the CS21s into the telco-50 (RJ21?) that the Nevada Western stuff wanted (8 lines of six wires each over the 25 pairs) We had a longish ribbon cable that attached to the CS21, then outside the BA-11, it had a SCSI-1-style connector that mated to our pinswabber, then a regular pair-1-to-pair-1-etc 25-pair cable through the building to rack with multiple telco connectors on the back and a sea of RJ11s on the front. The user side was 50-pin cables from the rack to their offices with an aluminum block with two telco connectors (in and out so you could daisy chain them) and 8 RJ11s that we would stick their terminals into. The middle was a ratsnest of 1 to 3 foot RJ11 patch cables. We would mark the office tiers of the patch panel with the name of the person whose desk was nearest the block (small company in an industrual park - no room numbers). The computer-side tiers were labelled like "ROBIN::TXA", "TUNA::TTA", "JAGUAR::TXC", etc. Then play connect the dots. If you needed to trace a line, doing manually took a few seconds. We attempted to maintain a log, but it was never current (whose is?) Anywhoo, nice cards. We didn't use the Emulex distribution panels, but made our own arrangement. I am not certain, but they *might* follow the DZ-11 pinout. It's worth checking first. Otherwise, making a map of which pins on the connector map to which pins on the 1488/1489 line drivers, then take it to the other side and see what goes to the data and handshaking pins on the UARTs. Doing one or two should establish a pattern (and it's not like you have to do *both* connectors, they are identical ;-) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Sat Jul 14 13:02:27 2001 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: swordfish In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010713174616.009f8d40@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: SGI Onyx 2 and or a Cluster http://www.ticam.utexas.edu/ccv/hardware/ The Onyx has 6 graphic pipes (3 fat and 3 thin) a total of 30 graphics channels. The Onyx can drive all 10 back projectors and the 3 front projectors each at 1280x1024 or run in stereo at 1024x768 for each projector. The compaq cluster can also drive all 13 at 1280x1024 and has a total of 32 vga/DVIO outputs. The graphcis lab also has a 10 channel stereo sound system. Now that would be a cool entertainment system for the home! Reuben From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 14 13:35:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <001101c10c93$b8214b00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Since you apparently believe you've found some self-contradictions, perhaps you'd like to point them out. I'll be happy to explain my meaning, since I certainly haven't changed my thinking on this matter. The fact remains that while the Apple along with nearly any other platform is quite capable of helping one learn about computing, it's pretty limited where learning about microPROCESSORs and their application is concerned. Dogging the Apple, which, admittedly, I never learned to like, won't shed light on what will really be helpful as far as teaching folks about the application of microPROCESSORs, and dogging the Apple isn't what I set out to do. I simply wanted to point out that, while the Apple does support plug-in cards, it has a number of limitations resulting from the compromises involved in integrating the processor with the video timing and I/O scheme that was selected. A device that would probably be more educational is the Motorola MC6801L1, which is a 6801 with the Lilbug monitor in ROM, or a Motorola MC68701-1 programmed with the LILBUG monitor (available for free on their MCU web site). This device has a number of configurable "modes" in which it can be used, ranging from "single-chip" mode to a full-blown microprocessor mode, and several in-between modes. With the 6801L1 you have the Lilbug debug monitor which has a mini-assembler built into it. There's very little external hardware needed to make this thing work, and anyone interested in microprocessors as anything other than a personal computer/video toy, would have little difficulty hooking up the necessary oscillator, switches, and serial port buffers to make it into a simple development/evaluation tool. Since it's capable of producing a set of parallel ports, or of producing a full 16-bit address bus and 8-bit data bus with the aid of an external address latch, it offers the user an opportunity to fiddle with the timing, decoding logic, etc, as he sees fit. Use of the monitor, however, requires that one choose one of three baud rates, provided by the firmware. The device, however, is capable of a wide range of baud rates, etc. It is really a very impressive device, contemporary with the 68000 and 6809, but targeted at a different market. There's also a ROMless version, the 6803, which is often found on old ST-412-style hard disk drives. Miniscribe, CMI, and others used the 6803, and RMS and others used the 68701, which is the EPROM version. Hitachi made a compatible set of devices, though their EPROM parts used a piggy-back EPROM. The 805x family is another set of processors that offer some interesting possibilities, including a built-in serial port, and the 803x types are the ROMless versions of them. These are still widely available today, most notably in EEPROM/FLASH versions from ATMEL and others. There are a lots of free development tools, e.g. assemblers and a few compilers, for the 805x family and a few resident debug monitors. Dallas Semiconductor makes a RAM-based version of the chip that allows it to be used as an in-circuit development tool, among other things, and Intel, among MANY others made an 875x series, which used EPROM. These things have been around for nearly 20 years and their popularity hasn't seemed to wane much. They are, like the 6801 series, capable of functioning either as a single-chip device or as an expanded microprocessor with a 16-bit address bus and an 8-bit data bus. These were also used on a wide range of HDD's likely to be lying in the back of the closet. I'd say either of those devices, available during the Apple era, would give more support to one wishing to experiment and learn about the use of microPROCESSORs than does the Apple, or any other desktop platform. The reality simply is that involvement of the processor in a platform like the Apple, with its video and I/O features, is necessarily limiting, hence interferes with learning about the features which are most critical to microPROCESSOR application, e.g. timing, decoding, and other low-level features of that ilk. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > As in that infamous previous thread, it seems some people have chosen > > to read what they wanted to read rather than was was written. That's > > not my fault, though. > > In defense of those who have good reading and comprehension skills, it > should be noted that some people have trouble expressing their thoughts in > a clear and concise manner, and sometimes even contradickt themselves. > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Sat Jul 14 14:15:36 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Update: Re: MicroVAX equipment6 Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066043@exc-reo1> > > I also picked up the DEC MicroServer (DEMSA-A)... > >Are you going to route X25 or SNA? Or DECnet? (Using the Phase IV load software he can do X.25 and DECnet simultaneously using the X25 Router software, should he so desire.) Antonio From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 14 15:37:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 13, 1 05:42:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 447 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010714/5a020c75/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 14 15:50:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <20010714145117.24336.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 14, 1 07:51:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 716 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010714/588bd111/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 14 15:41:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 13, 1 05:46:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1407 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010714/f6da25cf/attachment.ksh From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 14 16:15:38 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Update: Re: MicroVAX equipment6 In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066043@exc-reo1> from "Carlini, Antonio" at Jul 14, 2001 12:15:36 PM Message-ID: <200107142115.f6ELFcs22750@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > I also picked up the DEC MicroServer (DEMSA-A)... > > > >Are you going to route X25 or SNA? > > Or DECnet? > > (Using the Phase IV load software he can do > X.25 and DECnet simultaneously using the > X25 Router software, should he so desire.) I didn't think the DEMSA would route DECnet; will a DESNB? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sat Jul 14 17:13:02 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Looking for RA7x series disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there any chance anyone here has any RA7x series disks they want to get rid of?? I just got an old 3000 series VAX that the previous owner thought had DSSI. It tuens out it has SDI and one dead RA70 in it. I would like to be able to use this without anchoring it to an RA80 or RA81. Afterall, I thought I was the last masochist left still running SDI on anything. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Jul 14 17:27:03 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: MS/PC-DOS replacements (was: "History" of computing) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010714152623.02ff6eb0@mail.zipcon.net> 4Dos is just a CCP replacement (replaces Command.com, not the whole of DOS. you still need to havea DOS core to run it on.) At 06:51 AM 7/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >There was DrDos and 4Dos (also known as Norton NDos) as well. 4Dos I >remember well as I still use it regularly on my old 5150 PC. > >-> -----Original Message----- >-> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >-> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis >-> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:29 PM >-> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >-> Subject: MS/PC-DOS replacements (was: "History" of computing) >-> >-> >-> >-> Speaking of MS-DOS or PC-DOS, how many here recall using improved >-> MS-DOS replacements, overlays or "environments?" For example, >-> Wendin-DOS >-> and it's UNIX-like and VMS-like emulation, or such multi-tasking and >-> multi-user envorinments that ran on top of MS/PC-DOS such as VMiX? >-> >-> I remember first using VMiX to attach terminals to PeeCees as well as >-> using this with a second monitor - I had both a Hercules color VGA >-> card as well as a Hercules monochrome graphics adapter in the system >-> and used both displays at one time. Sometimes VMiX would work and I >-> could run my BBS (using the QuickBBS software) while also doing other >-> things with the system. Alas, I never sent in the registration fee >-> for VMiX and hence never got the full technical details/documentation, >-> etc. that would have supposedly made it more useful. Did anyone here >-> ever register it and get that info.? >-> >-> This reminds me... I've got to figure out how to write a program >-> to extract >-> all of the old messages from the QuickBBS database files and save them as >-> text files. >-> >-> Getting back to Wendin-DOS, I understand that it's creator ended up >-> being sucked into Microsoft as an employee. Does anyone know how many >-> small companies that could have been good competetion got sucked up >-> that way into the black hole known as Microsoft? >-> >-> -- >-> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & >-> other animals: >-> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're >-> above Nature & >-> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma >-> to justify such >-> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. >-> From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 14 17:39:46 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: MS/PC-DOS replacements (was: "History" of computing) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010714152623.02ff6eb0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: Yeah I thought about that AFTER I pressed "send"... -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Reed -> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 5:27 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: MS/PC-DOS replacements (was: "History" of computing) -> -> -> 4Dos is just a CCP replacement (replaces Command.com, not the -> whole of DOS. -> you still need to havea DOS core to run it on.) -> -> At 06:51 AM 7/14/01 -0500, you wrote: -> >There was DrDos and 4Dos (also known as Norton NDos) as well. 4Dos I -> >remember well as I still use it regularly on my old 5150 PC. -> > -> >-> -----Original Message----- -> >-> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> >-> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> >-> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:29 PM -> >-> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> >-> Subject: MS/PC-DOS replacements (was: "History" of computing) -> >-> -> >-> -> >-> -> >-> Speaking of MS-DOS or PC-DOS, how many here recall using improved -> >-> MS-DOS replacements, overlays or "environments?" For example, -> >-> Wendin-DOS -> >-> and it's UNIX-like and VMS-like emulation, or such multi-tasking and -> >-> multi-user envorinments that ran on top of MS/PC-DOS such as VMiX? -> >-> -> >-> I remember first using VMiX to attach terminals to PeeCees as well as -> >-> using this with a second monitor - I had both a Hercules color VGA -> >-> card as well as a Hercules monochrome graphics adapter in the system -> >-> and used both displays at one time. Sometimes VMiX would work and I -> >-> could run my BBS (using the QuickBBS software) while also doing other -> >-> things with the system. Alas, I never sent in the registration fee -> >-> for VMiX and hence never got the full technical -> details/documentation, -> >-> etc. that would have supposedly made it more useful. Did anyone here -> >-> ever register it and get that info.? -> >-> -> >-> This reminds me... I've got to figure out how to write a program -> >-> to extract -> >-> all of the old messages from the QuickBBS database files and -> save them as -> >-> text files. -> >-> -> >-> Getting back to Wendin-DOS, I understand that it's creator ended up -> >-> being sucked into Microsoft as an employee. Does anyone -> know how many -> >-> small companies that could have been good competetion got sucked up -> >-> that way into the black hole known as Microsoft? -> >-> -> >-> -- -> >-> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> >-> other animals: -> >-> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> >-> above Nature & -> >-> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> >-> to justify such -> >-> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much -> human cruelty. -> >-> -> From owad at applefritter.com Sat Jul 14 18:42:29 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010714234229.19360@mail.earthlink.net> >>the early macs at least also have a built in ROM-Monitor :) >>probably the later ones too, although I think that they stopped >>including in the powermac series. > > My B/W G3 still has the programmer's switch on the front >panel and I believe that the G4's we have at work still do as well. >I don't recall if the iMac's do or not. When pressed, it still drops >you to the '>' prompt but none of the manuals that ship with the >machines tell you anything about it. I've never been able to exit >back out of it without rebooting, nor have I actually gotten it to >show any of the info one generally does from a monitor program. The G4's do, too. I've heard though, that new Power Macs being announced next week at MacWorld Expo won't have them, due to Mac OS X. To exit, press 'G' (for Go). Pressing 'GF' (for Go Finder) is effectively the same as force quitting. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Jul 14 18:46:36 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: "History" of computing (was: Great new addition to collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's Lincoln Spector's article: http://www.pcworld.com/features/article/0,aid,52503,00.asp From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 14 08:45:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010713202045.03b031e0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <392.595T2150T8855823optimus@canit.se> Geoff Reed skrev: >the early macs at least also have a built in ROM-Monitor :) >probably the later ones too, although I think that they stopped including >in the powermac series. Is that a matter of shorting those traces on the superfluous "developer's" card-edge on older Macs? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei. --- Leonardo da Vinci From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 14 08:58:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1276.595T2550T8986687optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>>The good emulations look EXACTLY like the original games, because they >>>actually run the original rom code. Fancy controllers and building kiosks >>>just make the illusion complete. >> >>First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect emulation. >>Secondly, even the CRTs differ. Might not matter if you've got bad eyesight, >>though. >Human eyes at best are no great test to perfect emulation. Nostalgia for >the original can cloud your perceptions though, fortunately I live in an >area with dozens of huge arcades that include the old games in free >sections. I prefer a modern crt under emulation, to the old TV style >original displays. Actually, human eyes are the only relevant test to perfect emulation. I couldn't care less what code was run, it might just as well be a dozen dwarfs inside the cabinet, peeking poking in real time. It's quite easy to discern what's a real Neo Geo. Perhaps is this turning into yet another originality debate. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Auf Sparc-Maschinen ist Linux weit weniger gut. Auf Maschinen mit sun4 Architektur ist NetBSD etwa 30% schneller. Wer auf so einer Maschine Linux faehrt tut es aus ideologischen Gruenden oder kennt nichts anderes." Aus: de.comp.os.unix.misc, "Was ist schneller?" From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 14 19:23:21 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: <200107140203.f6E232s15083@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Mine has SCSI disks. Still don't know what that connector is, though. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:27PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > > > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a D-shell > > > on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my DECsystem > > > 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 - 16 - 17. > > > > it's the MFM "Extention" cable. you can put external MFM devices on it. > > > > -brian > > That's one *seriously* old VAXserver 3100 then. Only the very first ones > used MFM disks as I understand it (I've never actually seen one). > > Zane > From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jul 14 20:10:43 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? References: Message-ID: <3B50ED93.B5FAF9C0@greenbelt.com> Can't say I have ever seen it before. But it is real cool, IMO. Kinda reminds me of a Sol-20. Eric Rob Lion wrote: > Hey all, > > I have (at home) an old Apple II of some sort that I picked up for free > from my high school a few years back. The thing that attracted me to it > was the partially wooden case that it was in, which I thought was pretty > snazzy. I took some pictures a while ago, and finally got around to > putting them up on a website: > http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~rnlion/comp/apple.html > > I'd like to know a bit more about this system, so if any of you Apple > enthusiasts could take a look and let me know if you've ever seen anything > like it, that would be great. > > Thanks, > Rob Lion From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jul 14 20:18:43 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? References: Message-ID: <3B50EF73.C848F3B6@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Tom Owad wrote: > > > >http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~rnlion/comp/apple.html > > > > Apple did sell Apple II's as just boards, the price difference being > > $500, so it's certainly possible somebody made their own cases or even > > did a small production run. > > > > Like Mike said, pictures of the inside would be really helpful. It might > > be a clone. > > If you look closely at these pictures you'll notice that there is indeed a > stock Apple ][+ (maybe even a ][) inside the wooden enclosure. > An Apple II owner with Sol-20 black walnut envy? Or is this NOT a prototype? Eric > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Sat Jul 14 20:11:23 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? Message-ID: <3B50EDBB.242E54C4@chartermi.net> I've never seen a light pen in use on any machine ... I've only seen them in pictures. How do these things work? Does anybody know how to obtain one or have information on how to build on? Thanks, Mike From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jul 14 20:25:01 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Free to good home a franklin pc 8000 References: Message-ID: <3B50F0EC.EE727B4D@greenbelt.com> Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I have this franklin pc 8000 computer. It works. If no one takes > it i'll have to take it out back and beat it with a baseball bat. I'm in > the pittsburgh area and I have to get it out storage at work. Oh geez, the old "National Lampoon" add, or a take-off, nonetheless. The add went, "If you don't buy this magazine, I'll shoot this dog." Poor little scared canine with a loony standing over the dog, gun in hand. Hey Lucas, if no one wants it, make sure you take pictures of the baseball bat scene and post the photos. Eric > > > Luke > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jul 14 20:28:32 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? References: <570.594T2000T13565361optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B50F1C0.B2B35DC6@greenbelt.com> Iggy Drougge wrote: > Tom Owad skrev: > > >Apple did sell Apple II's as just boards, the price difference being > >$500, so it's certainly possible somebody made their own cases or even > >did a small production run. > > I once read in an old children's magazine about some teenage girls who built > an Apple II in technology class, sporting a pink case and an ABCDEF keyboard > instead of a QWERTY one, so as to be more friendly towards children. =) > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Iggy tipsar: Koppla aldrig en C128-transformator till en A500. ?ven om > kontakterna ser likadana ut, ligger sp?nningarna fel. Was haben sie gezacht? Eric From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jul 14 20:40:44 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! Message-ID: <3B50F49C.5D861BE5@greenbelt.com> I've been accumulating the damages from a recent thunderstorm. Wow! Originally I thought it was just a GFI breaker and the phones. But it turns out that a computer got hit (just a PC), and the cable box as well as a TV. I'm making a list (8 entries so far). Thank God my bro-in-law here in Maryland gave me a surge supressor that I put on my SWTPC. Makes me think I need more of those things. Anyone else have such an event happen? Also, take this as a warning to protect you most valuable possessions. I intend to get a few more surge suppressors to protect stuff. This is the one and only time that this has happened to me, and I'm felling lucky. Eric From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jul 14 20:45:37 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:44 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <3B50F5C1.DD18D49C@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > It's well documented; the circuit diagrams are readily available, the > > service manual is reasonably easy to find, and includes circuit > > description, upgrade instructions, schematics, board layouts, > > mechanical drawings, etc. And other documents cover the systems calls > > in detail, how to build interfaces to the bus, how to write ROM > > software for it, and so on. > > The original Apple ][ reference manual wasn't nearly as comprehensive but > still it included the schematics, ROM listings, and other tidbits of > useful info for understanding all the various subsystems of the basic > Apple ][. It was my "bible" throughout high school (how deliciously > nerdy, eh? :) Apple II and high school? Sellam, I'm older than you? Geez, I first saw an Apple II while in college. I was using an Interdata 7/16 in high school. I'm looking foward to the VCF-East photos. Eric > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jul 14 20:48:43 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Apple II as trainer References: Message-ID: <3B50F67B.FA677583@greenbelt.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > > > I just picked up four Platinum IIes. The firmware is in one ROM > > (16KB, 27C128 compatible). I also have a SwyftCard. I am going to > > Ooooh. One of the holy grails of the Apple ][ scene :) > > > see if I can convert the IIe into a Canon Cat. The show-stopper would > > be if the SwyftCard uses lots of IIe ROM routines and I cannot fit it > > all into 16KB. > > You'll have to exhibit that at VCF Midwest (if John Keys ever takes a > break from collecting and decides to go ahead and organize it :) > > On that note, VCF East 1.0 is nigh two weeks away...July 28-29 in > Marlborough, Massachusetts, Royal Plaza Hotel and Trade Center. Alas, I won't be able to make it. :( It seems that the Monday after the show is a golf tournamnet that I can't miss. I got a pro on my foursome, and the bragging rights are just too high for me to miss this event. Going to TX didn't help, having used up most of my vacation. Looking forward to the photos, tho! Eric > > > http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/ > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 14 21:48:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <003501c10c87$c465aac0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <1517.596T2550T2286627optimus@canit.se> Lanny Cox skrev: >Isn't there a Neo Geo home system available??? I know SNK is still in >business, i was considering buying a Neo Geo cabinet until i found the >wonders of the classic Nintendo NES. Come to think of it, are +10 year old >game consoles and arcade machines considered "classic computers"??? There have been several. The most recent ones were the Pocket units. I don't think those had much in common with the original, though. In the early nineties, the Neo Geo was the Rolls-Royce amongst game consoles. I remember being offered to buy one when I was shopping for my first computer. It cost as much as an Amiga, and two or three games would set you back as much as the cost of the base unit. It's a great system, though. Probably the best joystick ever seen on a home system. Not all the analogue twenty-button frills of modern Playstations or Dreamcasts, but very well-built, with a real arcade feeling. There have been CD add-ons as well, and in the mid-nineties, there was some new 64-bit unit IIRC. I'd really like a cabinet with Puzzle Bobble/Bust a Move. I'm spending too much money on that game. The Neo Geo is the only real alternative if you're into sprite-based games. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "But software which OpenBSD uses and redistributes must be free to all (be they people or companies), for any purpose they wish to use it, including modification, use, peeing on, or even integration into baby mulching machines or atomic bombs to be dropped on Australia." - Theo de Raadt From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Jul 14 21:02:58 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: <200107141537.f6EFbXa21858@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B50F9D2.C72756D@greenbelt.com> Eric Dittman wrote: > > >I have more Apple ]['s that //c+'s :) > > > > IIe > > IIgs > > IIc > > IIc+ > > II+ > > II > > > > Ranked by what I see around, and given that I have been "casually" looking > > for a II for good year or so (right after I stopped noticing them). I have > > half a dozen or so IIc+, so have stopped buying them, and stopped on the > > IIc some time ago. I snoop in IIe and IIgs computers, but don't generally > > bring any more home. > > I'm going to Software Etc. this afternoon. They have some Apple II stuff. > I'll let you know if they have a plain II. > Please do. I got a couple of Apple II disk drives last week for $1 a piece. Eric > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net From CELang at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 14 21:14:39 2001 From: CELang at worldnet.att.net (CELang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! Message-ID: <001001c10cd3$eb0fd280$fba64b0c@oemcomputer> Yes. The control board in my Dad's garage door opener was killed by a close lightning strike. My sister, who owns the house next door to him, lost the motherboard on her PC -- and it wasn't on at the time, just plugged in. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Chomko To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:00 PM Subject: thunderstorm damages! >I've been accumulating the damages from a recent thunderstorm. Wow! >Originally I thought >it was just a GFI breaker and the phones. But it turns out that a >computer got hit (just a PC), >and the cable box as well as a TV. I'm making a list (8 entries so far). >Thank God my bro-in-law >here in Maryland gave me a surge supressor that I put on my SWTPC. Makes >me think I need >more of those things. > >Anyone else have such an event happen? Also, take this as a warning to >protect you most valuable >possessions. I intend to get a few more surge suppressors to protect >stuff. This is the one and only >time that this has happened to me, and I'm felling lucky. > >Eric > > > > > > From RMeenaks at olf.com Sat Jul 14 21:23:00 2001 From: RMeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Problems installing Solaris 2.4 on SPARCstation LX Message-ID: <92322E4B3209D511A19100508B558478627393@exchange.olf.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010714/d2eedb0c/attachment.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 21:26:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: <3B50F49C.5D861BE5@greenbelt.com> References: <3B50F49C.5D861BE5@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >I've been accumulating the damages from a recent thunderstorm. Wow! >Originally I thought >it was just a GFI breaker and the phones. But it turns out that a >computer got hit (just a PC), >and the cable box as well as a TV. I'm making a list (8 entries so far). >Thank God my bro-in-law >here in Maryland gave me a surge supressor that I put on my SWTPC. Makes >me think I need >more of those things. Wow...and you're only a few miles from me. To the best of my knowledge, with the exception of the occasional power loss, we haven't had any problems from the various storms. Then again, I don't run anything straight off of the wall outlet other than some lamps and kitchen appliances. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jul 14 21:30:41 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Eric Dittman) References: <15183.40757.814642.920269@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107140142.f6E1glG19400@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15185.81.305020.396793@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 13, Eric Dittman wrote: > If your 700 is FLASH-capable I have an extra FLASH card. Ahh, most kind. I just popped it open, though, and I don't see anywhere that it might take any flash. There are two 72-pin SIMM sockets in the left front area of the board, one of which has a SIMM in it. What physical form of flash does DECserver 700 take? -Dave McGuire From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 21:34:21 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: <001001c10cd3$eb0fd280$fba64b0c@oemcomputer> References: <001001c10cd3$eb0fd280$fba64b0c@oemcomputer> Message-ID: >Yes. The control board in my Dad's garage door opener was killed by a close >lightning strike. My sister, who owns the house next door to him, lost the >motherboard on her PC -- and it wasn't on at the time, just plugged in. I've seen ISA based internal modems that took surges from strikes on the line. Some of them looked like they caught fire or at least got very hot. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 14 21:37:08 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3B50F9D2.C72756D@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Jul 14, 2001 10:02:58 PM Message-ID: <200107150237.f6F2b8j23627@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I'm going to Software Etc. this afternoon. They have some Apple II stuff. > > I'll let you know if they have a plain II. > > > > Please do. I got a couple of Apple II disk drives last week for $1 a piece. There's just about no Apple II stuff there now. I saw just a couple of Apple II monitors and some other misc. parts. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Jul 14 21:55:21 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: <3B50F49C.5D861BE5@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: Do you typically unplug your machines during boomers, or leave them plugged in? I purchased a UPS/line conditioner back when I lived in an upstairs apartment and my computer collection consisted of a 486 PC and QBUS DECsystem 5400. I did not suffer a lightning strike, but rain blew a surprising distance in an open window across the room on my UPS and shorted it out during a particularly bad T-storm. Fortunately I was in the next room when it happened since it emitted impressive sparks. Since then, I have a house with a basement and the collection has expanded a great deal but I try to disconnect and power off all the equipment not doing anything important during flashy storms. Now there is a lot more to disconnect. Network cables to all the machines, two of them to the linux box hooked to the cable modem, various printers, monitors and speakers not always hooked to a UPS due to lack of plugs or capacity. I imagine any one could be an entry point for a surge. On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > I've been accumulating the damages from a recent thunderstorm. Wow! > Originally I thought > it was just a GFI breaker and the phones. But it turns out that a > computer got hit (just a PC), > and the cable box as well as a TV. I'm making a list (8 entries so far). > Thank God my bro-in-law > here in Maryland gave me a surge supressor that I put on my SWTPC. Makes > me think I need > more of those things. > > Anyone else have such an event happen? Also, take this as a warning to > protect you most valuable > possessions. I intend to get a few more surge suppressors to protect > stuff. This is the one and only > time that this has happened to me, and I'm felling lucky. > > Eric > > > > > -- From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Jul 14 22:00:21 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A building owned by my employer took a strike and blew out their SCO server. The ISA mux card serving terminals and the motherboard were physically scorched but surprisingly the SCSI peripherals and RAM was all OK. I believe one or two terminals were also scorched. It surprised me at the time that the whole system was not wasted. It went on to perform flawlessly for another year till replaced. On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Yes. The control board in my Dad's garage door opener was killed by a close > >lightning strike. My sister, who owns the house next door to him, lost the > >motherboard on her PC -- and it wasn't on at the time, just plugged in. > > I've seen ISA based internal modems that took surges from > strikes on the line. Some of them looked like they caught fire or at > least got very hot. > > Jeff > -- From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 14 22:05:15 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: <15185.81.305020.396793@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 14, 2001 10:30:41 PM Message-ID: <200107150305.f6F35Fv23746@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > If your 700 is FLASH-capable I have an extra FLASH card. > > Ahh, most kind. I just popped it open, though, and I don't see > anywhere that it might take any flash. There are two 72-pin SIMM > sockets in the left front area of the board, one of which has a SIMM > in it. What physical form of flash does DECserver 700 take? The FLASH is a PCMCIA memory card. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 14 22:33:44 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Wooden case for Apple II? In-Reply-To: <3B50F1C0.B2B35DC6@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > Was haben sie gezacht? > > Eric Meinen sie, "Was haben sie gesagt?"? Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jul 14 22:39:20 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Sparc at home In-Reply-To: Re: Sparc at home (Eric Dittman) References: <15185.81.305020.396793@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107150305.f6F35Fv23746@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15185.4200.314729.28961@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 14, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Ahh, most kind. I just popped it open, though, and I don't see > > anywhere that it might take any flash. There are two 72-pin SIMM > > sockets in the left front area of the board, one of which has a SIMM > > in it. What physical form of flash does DECserver 700 take? > > The FLASH is a PCMCIA memory card. Ahh, ok. Definitely no place for a PCMCIA card on this DS700 board. -Dave McGuire From cryhavoc_q at hotmail.com Sat Jul 14 23:23:02 2001 From: cryhavoc_q at hotmail.com (Andrew Kershaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Starting the GUI in Solaris 2.4 Message-ID: Simply put, how do I do it? I followed the directions graciously refered to by Ram and got Solaris 2.4 installed. I installed the entire distribution plus OEM support, so i'm fairly certain _everything_ was installed. And now I'd like to get the GUI up. I tried Xsun but that didn't work... it gave me a ">" prompt but I had no idea what to do next... Man, i really am a newbie, huh? ;-) Thanks for all the help! Drew _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 14 23:44:56 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? In-Reply-To: <3B50EDBB.242E54C4@chartermi.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Michael Brutman wrote: > I've never seen a light pen in use on any machine ... I've > only seen them in pictures. How do these things work? > Does anybody know how to obtain one or have information > on how to build on? Where were you during VCF? I sold and gave away a bunch of them, including some Atari ones. An over-simplified description (Tony can elaborate in more accurate detail): The lightpen itself is little more than a photocell with just enough circuitry to clean up the signal and a switch to notice when you are pushing the tip against something. Although it LOOKS like the lightpen "writes on the screen", it is only sensing what is happening on the screen. The computer watches to see when the photocell "sees" light, either from software turning on and off pixels (which is what we did on the TRS-80 when we made lightpens), or watching for the actual scanning beam. When the computer hears from the lightpen that it sees the light, it knows (I promised over-simplification!) where the light is at that instant, and therefore, now knows where the lightpen is. Once the computer knows where the pen is, it can use the switch and context to do things such as make a menu selection, or light up pixels in a drawing mode. For example: for making menu selections, we put a group of boxes on the screen, and flashed them on and off. It wasn't visibly obvious that they were actually NOT flashing at the same time. When the software saw the light, it would look up which box had been lit at that time. For a drawing program (our TRS-80 software was too slow), whenever the computer sees the light, AND the switch is on, it sets a pixel and leaves it on. We also did a bunch of other stupid stuff with it, such as sticking the lightpen to the screen with a clear suction cup, and lighting a ring of pixels around it, so that tilting the lightpen made a VERY crude joystick. We taped the lightpen to the printhead of a printer and attempted to scan. Later on, "Thunderscan"? did that much more successfully for Apples. The IBM CGA and MDA boards both have a 6 pin berg connector for lightpen! With that, it isn't necessary to do the crude setting and resetting of pixels, since it can provide a usable signal based on the scan position. Lightpens won't work with very long persistence phosphors. The IBM monochrome monitor killed the market for lightpens, and the market never came back, to such an extreme level that now people ask, "what was a lightpen?" -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 15 00:17:30 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: <3B50F49C.5D861BE5@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > I've been accumulating the damages from a recent thunderstorm. Wow! > Originally I thought > it was just a GFI breaker and the phones. But it turns out that a > computer got hit (just a PC), > and the cable box as well as a TV. I'm making a list (8 entries so far). > Thank God my bro-in-law > here in Maryland gave me a surge supressor that I put on my SWTPC. Makes > me think I need > more of those things. > > Anyone else have such an event happen? Also, take this as a warning to > protect you most valuable > possessions. I intend to get a few more surge suppressors to protect > stuff. This is the one and only > time that this has happened to me, and I'm felling lucky. Save the surge suppressors for those items that you keep powered up. Unplug the remainder! Save money, save hardware. - don > Eric > > > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 15 00:33:36 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you actually get a direct strike, or even a CLOSE one, do NOT expect a "surge suppressor" to be adequate to protect anything. BTDT From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jul 15 03:43:06 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107150843.f6F8h7q00451@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 14 Jul, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > Mine has SCSI disks. Still don't know what that connector is, though. Look at the PCB that the connector sits on. If there is a HDC9224 MFM/floppy controller like in the VAXstation 2000 or on the RQDX3 your question is answered. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From shirly887 at 163.com Sun Jul 15 04:56:13 2001 From: shirly887 at 163.com (shirly887@163.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: new item Message-ID: <20010715095613.61A811CBC3630@smtp5.163.com> offer to sell ping-pong TVgame ************************** Newest product for environment- protection , leisure, body- building , sport. More exciting, more attractive , more funny . 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ADD:ROOM 407-408,A BUILDING XIANGZHU GARDEN,ZUZHILING,FUTIAN DISTRICT,SHENZHEN,CHINA > TEL :86755 3183037 \ 3709573 13823677077 Ms. Shirly Wang > Fax: 86 755 3183037 > E-mail: shirly887@163.com gafucom@szonline.net http://gafucom.ebigchina.com ×îеçÊÓÓÎÏ·²úÆ·-----ƹÅÒµçÊÓÓÎÏ·»ú ¼ÈÊÇÓÎÏ·»ú£¬ÓÖÊÇÔ˶¯²úÆ·¡£Çë²é¿´¸½¼þͼƬ»ò²é¿´ÎÒÃǵÄÍøÕ¾http://gafucom.ebigchina.com )(ÈÈÂô²úÆ·À¸) *Ä£ÄâƹÅÒÇòÔ˶¯£¬Ò»ÖÖ½¡¿µÓÐȤµÄÔ˶¯ÓÎÏ· *ÊÊÒËÓÚ¼ÒÍ¥£¬ÓÎÏ·ÊÒÓéÀֻ *3ÖÖÄѶȼ¶±ð *7¸ö²»Í¬Ìس¤µÄ¶ÔÊÖ *É豸ҪÇó¼òµ¥£¬Ö»ÒªÒ»Ì¨µçÊÓ»ú¼´¿É£¬Õ¼µØÃæ»ýС£¬Êղط½±ã *ʹÓÃ4½Ú5ºÅµç³Ø Shenzhen Choices trade co.,ltd. ADD:ROOM 407-408,A BUILDING XIANGZHU GARDEN,ZUZHILING,FUTIAN DISTRICT,SHENZHEN,CHINA > TEL :86755 3183037 \ 3709573 13823677077 Ms. Shirly Wang > Fax: 86 755 3183037 > E-mail: shirly887@163.com gafucom@szonline.net http://gafucom.ebigchina.com --------------------------------------------------------------- ¸ÃÓʼþÓÉ¡¶½ð·æÓʼþȺ·¢ 2.0¡··¢ËÍ£¬ÓʼþÄÚÈÝÓëÈí¼þ×÷ÕßÎÞ¹Ø --------------------------------------------------------------- ½ð·æÈí¼þ£¬ÖµµÃÐÅÀµµÄÈí¼þ http://www.jinfengnet.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PING-PONG-ok.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17952 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010715/de2245d3/PING-PONG-ok.jpg From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 15 05:57:55 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Jeff Hellige "Re: thunderstorm damages!" (Jul 14, 22:34) References: <001001c10cd3$eb0fd280$fba64b0c@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <10107151157.ZM7759@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 14, 22:34, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Yes. The control board in my Dad's garage door opener was killed by a close > >lightning strike. My sister, who owns the house next door to him, lost the > >motherboard on her PC -- and it wasn't on at the time, just plugged in. > > I've seen ISA based internal modems that took surges from > strikes on the line. Some of them looked like they caught fire or at > least got very hot. They probably weren't strikes on the line, just spikes induced by near-misses. Phone lines, especially overhead lines, are like big antennae during a thunderstorm. If you ever watch phone engineers working on multicore cables when the skies darken during thunder season, you'll see them getting away from the cable ends fast -- the induced spikes can be quite spectacular. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 15 05:53:33 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Eric Chomko "thunderstorm damages!" (Jul 14, 21:40) References: <3B50F49C.5D861BE5@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <10107151153.ZM7755@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 14, 21:40, Eric Chomko wrote: > I've been accumulating the damages from a recent thunderstorm. Wow! > Originally I thought > it was just a GFI breaker and the phones. But it turns out that a > computer got hit (just a PC), > and the cable box as well as a TV. I'm making a list (8 entries so far). > Thank God my bro-in-law > here in Maryland gave me a surge supressor that I put on my SWTPC. Makes > me think I need > more of those things. > > Anyone else have such an event happen? Yes, I've had it happen. Over here, the mains is usually fed from a three-phase transformer, with every third house on the same phase. A few years ago, I was watching the storm pass overhead (I like watching lightning) when the house three along from me had a direct hit on their TV aerial. There was a huge BANG!. The damage to their house was extensive: part of the aerial was vapourised, a few other things melted, much of the electrical equipment in the house was damaged in some way. Almost every burglar alarm in the street went off, and two (on the same supply phase) were wrecked. I wasn't so badly off. The bang was so loud I'd jumped hard enough make a picture fall off the wall. One monitor went bang and stopped working so I pulled its plug. My alarm went off but I was able to reset it. When I'd done that, I had a quick look round to see if anything was on fire, but although a few things had obviously stopped working, nothing looked like it needed immediate attention so I went to help the neighbours with their alarm (there are two old couples whose houses I sometimes look after if they're away). When I came back about an hour later I had a more thorough look. One of a pair of identical modems was fried; the other one was fine. The cordless phone never worked again, but the answering machine on the same line was apparently OK (though it never worked quite as well). The TV and video both died. There was a strong burnt PCB smell in the lounge, which turned out to be the remains of the satellite tuner, which was still drawing power and slowly melting. The monitor that had gone bang was a complete mess inside, and was a write-off, though the one next to it was fine, as was the Acorn Archimedes it was connected to. A PDP-11/34 in the garage had stopped, it turned out that the big input filter on the control box had burnt out. The TV company declared the video recorder to be irrepairable, and the engineer who looked at the TV said it was rather black inside, but they took it away and repaired it -- apparently they ended up changing almost every board inside and it was ages before they brought it back (we had a loan set in the meantime). But if you're thinking of relying on surge suppressors to protect your precious items from a lightning strike: _don't_. They're intended to protect from the spikes induced by nearby lightning discharges, not a direct hit or a strike that hits a nearby transformer or the supply. My PDP-11 is the testament to that. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 15 06:05:01 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Paul Thompson "Re: thunderstorm damages!" (Jul 14, 21:55) References: Message-ID: <10107151205.ZM7767@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 14, 21:55, Paul Thompson wrote: > Since then, I have a house with a basement and the collection has expanded > a great deal but I try to disconnect and power off all the equipment not > doing anything important during flashy storms. Very wise. > Now there is a lot more to disconnect. Network cables to all the > machines, two of them to the linux box hooked to the cable modem, various > printers, monitors and speakers not always hooked to a UPS due to lack of > plugs or capacity. I imagine any one could be an entry point for a surge. If the network cables are all inside the building and aren't too long, they're probably fairly safe. On Jul 14, 22:00, Paul Thompson wrote: > > A building owned by my employer took a strike and blew out their SCO > server. The ISA mux card serving terminals and the motherboard were > physically scorched but surprisingly the SCSI peripherals and RAM was all > OK. I believe one or two terminals were also scorched. That was probably due to current induced in the serial lines. On campus, we used to have lots of serial cards and terminals blow up every time there was a big thunderstorm, because the outdoor cables ran in overhead ducts in covered walkways. The network is usually fine, though (it's either underground or fibre between buildings). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1438.monmouth.com Sun Jul 15 06:59:20 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1438.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Starting the GUI in Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: from Andrew Kershaw at "Jul 15, 2001 04:23:02 am" Message-ID: <200107151159.f6FBxK805442@bg-tc-ppp1438.monmouth.com> > Simply put, how do I do it? > > I followed the directions graciously refered to by Ram and got Solaris 2.4 > installed. I installed the entire distribution plus OEM support, so i'm > fairly certain _everything_ was installed. And now I'd like to get the GUI > up. I tried Xsun but that didn't work... it gave me a ">" prompt but I had > no idea what to do next... > > Man, i really am a newbie, huh? ;-) > > Thanks for all the help! > Drew /usr/openwin/bin/openwin should work... if you didn't install CDE. CDE is usually on an additional CDROM IIRC... been a long time since I've seen Solaris 2.4. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sun Jul 15 07:32:03 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > If you actually get a direct strike, or even a CLOSE one, do NOT expect a > "surge suppressor" to be adequate to protect anything. > It's amazing what can and can not survive a nearby strike. When I lived in New York our house set back quite a ways from the road. We took a strike on the power line coming into the house. It blew up my TRS80 Model III which was not powered on at the time (Literally blew chips off the baord.) Did not hurt the Okidata printer that was attached. But most amazing, sitting next to it was a Terak 8510, which is an LSI-11/02. It was running at the time and didn't even re-boot. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Jul 15 08:37:53 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151344@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I did not suffer a lightning strike, but rain blew a surprising distance > in an open window across the room on my UPS and shorted it out during a > particularly bad T-storm. Fortunately I was in the next room when it > happened since it emitted impressive sparks. I'm the same way! If something's going to go shpritzenshparks, I love to be there to see it. Sort of like train wrecks, I suppose (about 100 years ago, the Big Attraction at the Kentucky State Fair was an exhibit where they collided two steam locomotives head-on!). About 15 years ago, while in an altered state, a severe thunderstorm brought down a 440v (480V? 700V?) line down into pooled water at the end of the street. So much was going on that the utility didn't catch this for maybe 30 minutes. At the pole to which it was still connected, a few sparks were going on, and the lights of nearby homes, which were pretty dim due to the voltage drop, were gradually getting brighter as the voltage would rise. Then, it would rise enough that it would discharge down the felled line into the polled water. I was pretty close; when it discharged, it was like a lightning strike, except with a LOUD 60hz hum. Incredible.. Yeah, and dangerous too, but I'm not interested in living in a Safe World. Regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Jul 15 08:43:39 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Mac Rom Debugger (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocesso rs) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151345@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >MicroBug was first introduced with the Mac Plus and has been a standard > >component in the ROM of all Mac OS computers since then. MicroBug is invoked > >when the system takes a Non-Maskable Interrupt (NMI) and there is no other > >debugger (e.g., MacsBug) installed. > > What debugger did the 128k have in it then? It shipped with > a small switch that pressed both a recessed reset switch and a > programmers switch. The switches were accessed through the side > ventilation slots. We used the switch with MacsBug, MACS = Motorola Advanced Computer Systems... It wasn't ROM-resident, you had to put it on the system disk from whcih you booted, but we'd hit the interrupt switch to drop into it when we needed it. In those days, it wasn't full-screen, but you could redirect the macsBug console to a serial port and debug that way... Regards, -dq From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 15 09:29:20 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Info needed on HP 2161A power supply. References: Message-ID: <3B51A8C0.85339EFD@tiac.net> Hello list readers.. Does anyone have schematics for a Hewlett Packard 2161A power supply? This is the power supply for the HP 2115 computers, and I beleive that it was also used for older HP I/O extenders as well. I'm having a problem with one of these power supplies, it simply will not turn on. All internal fuses have been checked, and a single bad fuse was found. Replacing this fuse had no effect and the replacement fuse does not blow. The back of this power supply has a connector that suggests it may have some sort of power-control function (like for I/O expander applications where it is turned on by an external signal). But the 2115 computer simply has 2 massive power cables, and nothing to connect to this additional smaller connector. A casual inspection of the 2161A's interior shows no clear power control relay (this is a high current linear power supply). Lacking schematics, its not easy to figure out what is supposed to be going on inside. Lastly, when attached to the 2115 computer, applying AC power to the supply (with all power switches off) causes the cooling fans in the 2115 to start running. This seems odd. I would expect the cooling fans to only start once the power switch was turned on. Turning on the power switch has no noticiable effect. I have verified continiuity from the power switch (on the 2115) through the cables into the 2161A supply, but I have not followed it internally through the 2161A's maze of wiring. From chobbs at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 15 09:48:44 2001 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (charles hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <3B51AD4C.1F3956DA@socal.rr.com> Tony Duell wrote: > Over here, I'd recoment getting a BBC Micro. It's got one main > disadvantage compared to the Apple ][ -- no expansion slots. The plus > points are :[...] > Of course getting one in the States is not that easy... Unlike over here. I lucked out at a flea market about 10 years ago and found one for $15 or so. It had a US style plug, so I figured it would work fine "over here". It did, with a few caveats: 1. Unlike US micros, which had a TV output on Channels 3 or 4, the BBC output RF on UHF (Channel 37 or something like that). Of course, the channel numbers and frequencies used in the US are different than those in the UK. 2. It still outputs a 625-line screen, which my 525-line US TV can only display a part of (some lines off the top and bottom are missing) 3. It outputs PAL color, so a NTSC TV will get a monochrome picture (It also supports direct RGB output, so, theoretically, I could wire a cable that would connect it to a monitor, fixing all of those problems) 4. Support can be hard to find in the US. I remember having to dig through several different (public) libraries, looking for books about the machine. I even wrote to a BBC users group in New Zealand, and got one of their newsletters, but at that time (late 1991), they seemed to be more focused on the Archimedes (just as most US-based Apple user groups turned their attention to the Macintosh). I haven't run this machine in about 10 years, so who knows what will happen if I try to turn it on... From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jul 15 09:57:13 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: <10107151153.ZM7755@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3B50F49C.5D861BE5@greenbelt.com> <10107151153.ZM7755@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >Yes, I've had it happen. Over here, the mains is usually fed from a >three-phase transformer, with every third house on the same phase. A few >years ago, I was watching the storm pass overhead (I like watching >lightning) when the house three along from me had a direct hit on their TV >aerial. There was a huge BANG!. The damage to their house was extensive: >part of the aerial was vapourised, a few other things melted, much of the >electrical equipment in the house was damaged in some way. Almost every >burglar alarm in the street went off, and two (on the same supply phase) >were wrecked. A couple of years ago my brother-in-law had lightning strike a large oak tree that is at the corner of his driveway. The lightning went down through the roots, cracked the concrete and went up into one of his cars that had been parked right at the corner of the drive over the roots. It fried everything electrical in the car. The strike also went up into the house as well, frying all the electrical stuff such as the VCR's and TV. You could actually trace the path of the electical charge because of the discoloration it left. I think one way it got intot he house was through the invisble dog fence he had installed, following the wire from the yard right into the electrical wiring of the house. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Mzthompson at aol.com Sun Jul 15 10:05:10 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Recent DEC additions Message-ID: The latest addition includes three DECstation 5000/2xx's, one each of /200, /240, & /260. Also included was two expansion boxes with two RZ58's, a TZK12 1/4 tape drive, & a RRD42 CDROM drive. Also got a TK50Z-GA, and a couple 90TL DECservers. One machine is loaded memory wise, 288 mb. Another has a couple extra Turbochannel cards. The first is the TCE Option Module. The second is an AV01B. It has 60 pin mini-D and two 4 pin RJ connectors. Some digging revealed it is an "DECaudio card and distribution box (LOFI)". Anybody know anything beyond that? Also got a DEC PC. It is a Venturis, 486/66. It came with a mono VGA monitor. Looking over the mainboard, I found where the pins would go if it had a color option, and there is a place to surface mount what I assume is the additional memory for the color option. Also got two boxes of manuals, and a box of original DEC software tapes. The tapes include two versions of Ultrix and the tape for the 90TL. The box of keyboards contained 9 DEC keyboards, mostly LK201. If this keeps up, I going to have to buy one of those small storage sheds just to store the extra keyboards that seem to keep wandering in. No doubt about it, I got a case of 'mental DECay', and I got it bad. Mike From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 15 09:32:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3B51AD4C.1F3956DA@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, charles hobbs wrote: > I haven't run this machine in about 10 years, so who knows what will > happen if I try to turn it on... It'll work. There seems to be a prevalent misconception about the durability of microcomputers. Save for anything with huge transformers and caps in its power supply (i.e. S-100 machines) or Commodore 64s (which in my experience die inordinately), most computers will fire right up no matter how long it's been since their last go. I know Tony will cringe when he reads this but it's really not necessary to go through any precautions before firing up a modernish computer with a switching power supply. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 15 11:42:04 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <003501c10c87$c465aac0$88f8fea9@98box> References: Message-ID: >Isn't there a Neo Geo home system available??? I know SNK is still in >business, i was considering buying a Neo Geo cabinet until i found the >wonders of the classic Nintendo NES. Come to think of it, are +10 year old >game consoles and arcade machines considered "classic computers"??? > >-Lanny Yes, but go on eBay and check out what Neo Geo home carts and systems sell for. I'm not sure what the new carts sell for (they still make carts). Also check out the Neo Geo CD system and game prices. Then check out the MVS cart prices, and you'll see why I want an Arcade system. Remember the original cart system cost $600-650, with the carts being $200 each in the early 90's. I'm guessing the Cart systems are vaguelly on-topic. If nothing else because they use a 68000 and Z80 processor :^) One interesting MVS solution is a $300 adapter that lets you plug them into a Home cart system. However, that ends up being more expensive than the HGA system ( http://www.gwtrading.com ) with a 1-slot Neo Geo JAMMA board. As it turns out we went to the closest arcade last night to check out one of the Neo Geo cabinets the chain has for sale in our area, and came to a rather depressing conclusion. There is really no way we're getting one of those cabinets in our second floor apartment. So the decission came down to the HGA system and building a MAME system. It looks like MAME won. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 15 11:50:32 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <1517.596T2550T2286627optimus@canit.se> References: <003501c10c87$c465aac0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: >There have been several. The most recent ones were the Pocket units. I >>don't think those had much in common with the original, though. As far as I can tell, nothing other than having a couple Metal Slug games and a King of Fighters game (as far as I know none of them are ports of the full sized games). >In the early nineties, the Neo Geo was the Rolls-Royce amongst game >consoles. In some ways it still is, a Cartridge system can still cost you as much as a Playstation 2! The thing to remember is some of those carts are pushing 1 Gig! With the oldest ones still being in the 50 meg range. >There have been CD add-ons as well, and in the mid-nineties, there was some >new 64-bit unit IIRC. It looks like the 64-bit unit is arcade only, and has only been used on about 5 games. >I'd really like a cabinet with Puzzle Bobble/Bust a Move. I'm spending too >much money on that game. As of yesterday my wife is officially addicted to that game! >The Neo Geo is the only real alternative if you're into sprite-based games. It's great as it's got gorgous 2D graphics (at least on the newer games), and if you're like me you don't have to worry about motion sickness while playing any of the games (thankfully 3D fighters don't bother me). Games like Quake make me so sick it isn't even funny! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 15 12:33:02 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: charles hobbs "BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors" (Jul 15, 7:48) References: <3B51AD4C.1F3956DA@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <10107151833.ZM7945@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 15, 7:48, charles hobbs wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > Over here, I'd recoment getting a BBC Micro. > I lucked out at a flea market about 10 years ago and found one for $15 or > so. It had a US style plug, so I figured it would work fine "over here". It > did, with a few caveats: > > 1. Unlike US micros, which had a TV output on Channels 3 or 4, the > BBC output RF on UHF (Channel 37 or something like that). Of course, > the channel numbers and frequencies used in the US are different than > those in the UK. > > 2. It still outputs a 625-line screen, which my 525-line US TV can only > display a part of (some lines off the top and bottom are missing) > > 3. It outputs PAL color, so a NTSC TV will get a monochrome picture > > (It also supports direct RGB output, so, theoretically, I could wire a cable > that would connect it to a monitor, fixing all of those problems) In a way, you're unlucky -- you have a bit of an oddity. Acorn did sell BBC Micros in the States, but the ones officially shipped had a number of modifications: 110V PSU, VHF modulator instead of UHF, 525-line 60Hz video instead of 625-line 50Hz, "COLOR" keyword in BASIC instead of "COLOUR". I can't remember if they changed the colour subsystem to do NTSC instead of PAL. I think that's unlikely as it would have involved changing the PCB; the changes I know about only required changed to the ROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 15 13:57:48 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! References: Message-ID: <3B51E7AC.1469236@greenbelt.com> Paul Thompson wrote: > Do you typically unplug your machines during boomers, or leave them > plugged in? I was on vacation. The machine was plugged in but off. > > > I purchased a UPS/line conditioner back when I lived in an upstairs > apartment and my computer collection consisted of a 486 PC and QBUS > DECsystem 5400. > > I did not suffer a lightning strike, but rain blew a surprising distance > in an open window across the room on my UPS and shorted it out during a > particularly bad T-storm. Fortunately I was in the next room when it > happened since it emitted impressive sparks. > Wow, sounds intense. > > Since then, I have a house with a basement and the collection has expanded > a great deal but I try to disconnect and power off all the equipment not > doing anything important during flashy storms. > Most of my equipment is not plugged in. > > Now there is a lot more to disconnect. Network cables to all the > machines, two of them to the linux box hooked to the cable modem, various > printers, monitors and speakers not always hooked to a UPS due to lack of > plugs or capacity. I imagine any one could be an entry point for a surge. > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > I've been accumulating the damages from a recent thunderstorm. Wow! > > Originally I thought > > it was just a GFI breaker and the phones. But it turns out that a > > computer got hit (just a PC), > > and the cable box as well as a TV. I'm making a list (8 entries so far). > > Thank God my bro-in-law > > here in Maryland gave me a surge supressor that I put on my SWTPC. Makes > > me think I need > > more of those things. > > > > Anyone else have such an event happen? Also, take this as a warning to > > protect you most valuable > > possessions. I intend to get a few more surge suppressors to protect > > stuff. This is the one and only > > time that this has happened to me, and I'm felling lucky. > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > -- From jweder at telusplanet.com Sun Jul 15 14:21:51 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.com (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Who wants a Tektronix 8002A uProcessor Lab? In-Reply-To: <200107142115.QAA13515@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: I've recently worked a deal with someone on the 8002A, so tough luck for anyone else thinking you might have loved to have another few cubic feet of toys! Hopefully the folks at the post office are in decent shape - I'd hate to be responsible for wrecking anyone's back! Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From jweder at telusplanet.com Sun Jul 15 14:21:46 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.com (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <200107142115.QAA13515@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: While I do agree that the Apple II would be a good machine to study the basics of programming and simple microcomputing, my personal preference for learning about microprocessors is the Motorola 68HC11 EVBU. It's a very inexpensive and compact board featuring the MC68HC11 processor chip. The HC11 has numerous ports allowing serial and parallel I/O, analog inputs, pulse counting, with an RS-232 interface for programming and internal EEPROM for small programs. It's got a decent monitor program (Buffalo) which allows programming at the assembler level, direct access to every function on the chip, and there's a wire-wrap area to add more RAM, an EPROM, motor controls or what have you.... I picked up an EVBU some years ago to use as the heart of a small robot, but put it away when life got too hectic. I've recently got it going again and now have an external 32k RAM, a piezo buzzer, and two relays to drive the robot's motors. I'll be adding optical sensors wired to the analog inputs and eventually even an LCD display and/or a keypad. The 68HC11 EVBU is cheap (if you can still find it), has good documentation, and is a great platform to learn a LOT about microprocessors. The only downside is that it's likely a bit of a steep learning curve for anybody who's really new to the hardware side of things. Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From chobbs at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 15 14:20:08 2001 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (charles hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Deadish C128 (was: Re: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <3B51ECE8.14EBF08D@socal.rr.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, charles hobbs wrote: > > > I haven't run this machine in about 10 years, so who knows what will > > happen if I try to turn it on... > > It'll work. There seems to be a prevalent misconception about the > durability of microcomputers. Save for anything with huge transformers > and caps in its power supply (i.e. S-100 machines) or Commodore 64s (which > in my experience die inordinately), most computers will fire right up no > matter how long it's been since their last go. Speaking of which...I have a C128 that I bought about 5-years ago. It worked fine when I bought it. I left it set up on the desk top, but I rarely turned it on much after that. Last weekend, I hooked it up to the TV and turned it on. The black and yellow start screen came up, but it was just the black text area with a yellow border. The BASIC language (e.g. "Commodore Basic 7.0"...) didn't start up. I tried rebooting it, hitting the reset button, no luck. Anyone else have this problem? Should I open it up and reseat all the chips or something? Thanks! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 15 13:31:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 14, 1 09:44:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3206 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010715/8d2ad35f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 15 13:43:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 15, 1 07:32:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2521 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010715/894701fe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 15 13:22:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? In-Reply-To: <3B50EDBB.242E54C4@chartermi.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jul 14, 1 08:11:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4641 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010715/8e2772b5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 15 13:53:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3B51AD4C.1F3956DA@socal.rr.com> from "charles hobbs" at Jul 15, 1 07:48:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2941 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010715/d6caa874/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 15 14:13:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <10107151833.ZM7945@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 15, 1 05:33:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2642 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010715/50696906/attachment.ksh From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Jul 15 14:41:28 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <3B51F1E8.281D94FF@greenbelt.com> Agreed. But I'm compelled to clean the unit as much as possible of dust and debris. prior to powering it on. Not sure if it is necessary, but a spray of canned air or from a compressor does at least give me a little peace of mind prior to applying power to a unit that has been sitting for years. Eric Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, charles hobbs wrote: > > > I haven't run this machine in about 10 years, so who knows what will > > happen if I try to turn it on... > > It'll work. There seems to be a prevalent misconception about the > durability of microcomputers. Save for anything with huge transformers > and caps in its power supply (i.e. S-100 machines) or Commodore 64s (which > in my experience die inordinately), most computers will fire right up no > matter how long it's been since their last go. > > I know Tony will cringe when he reads this but it's really not necessary > to go through any precautions before firing up a modernish computer with a > switching power supply. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cryhavoc_q at hotmail.com Sun Jul 15 16:18:43 2001 From: cryhavoc_q at hotmail.com (Andrew Kershaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Starting the GUI in Solaris 2.4 Message-ID: Bill, I tried that. I navigated to /usr/openwin/bin/ and typed openwin at the # prompt. The OS returned the message "openwin: not found" :-( Ideas? Thanks, Drew p.s. - I'm logged in as root if that makes a difference. I'd also like to set up a seperate user account... I'm going to try to look around for a way to set up a user account. >/usr/openwin/bin/openwin should work... if you didn't install CDE. >CDE is usually on an additional CDROM IIRC... been a long time since >I've seen Solaris 2.4. >Bill _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jul 15 16:58:50 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:45 2005 Subject: Starting the GUI in Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: from Andrew Kershaw at "Jul 15, 1 09:18:43 pm" Message-ID: <200107152158.OAA10246@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I tried that. I navigated to /usr/openwin/bin/ and typed openwin at the # > prompt. The OS returned the message "openwin: not found" Just for fun, what does 'startx' do on the system? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The Commodore 64: the last true plug-and-play computer. -------------------- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 15 17:15:39 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Starting the GUI in Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010715151411.02adc520@209.185.79.193> This is because root doesn't normally have /usr/openwin/bin in its path. There are two things you will probably want to do in the .cshrc file or .profile (depending on shell) set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to include /usr/openwin/lib and set path to include /usr/openwin/bin then type openwin at the prompt from the console and the system should pop into openwindows. --Chuck At 09:18 PM 7/15/01 +0000, you wrote: >Bill, > >I tried that. I navigated to /usr/openwin/bin/ and typed openwin at the # >prompt. The OS returned the message "openwin: not found" > >:-( Ideas? > >Thanks, >Drew > >p.s. - I'm logged in as root if that makes a difference. I'd also like to >set up a seperate user account... I'm going to try to look around for a >way to set up a user account. > >>/usr/openwin/bin/openwin should work... if you didn't install CDE. >>CDE is usually on an additional CDROM IIRC... been a long time since >>I've seen Solaris 2.4. > > >>Bill > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Jul 15 17:17:15 2001 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Toshiba PA2701U Docking Station: Info? References: <3B51ECE8.14EBF08D@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <000601c10d7b$e7b21230$6401a8c0@fred> Hi gang, This looks to me like a truly classiccmp.subject, except its not exactly UNIX/VAX stuff: even if I run Linux on it. How do I make the Toshiba pa2701u docking station capable of running with a cdrom (instead of the floppy)? There are two ISA slots in it. Use an ISA generic drivercard and then? disable the floppy addresses and the serial and the IDE1 so as to have no conflict with the laptop addresses? Anybody know how to get into that durned box without a key? With a drill? Cavemen! Any info on this would be appreciated. Fred From dlinder at uiuc.edu Sun Jul 15 17:42:10 2001 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > the original can cloud your perceptions though, fortunately I live in an > area with dozens of huge arcades that include the old games in free > sections. I prefer a modern crt under emulation, to the old TV style what area? I live in Champaign/Urbana Illinois these days, but as a kid I lived in Suburban Chicago... there was an arcade called "Galaxy World" that was just incredible. Probably hundreds of games. Two LONG walls of pinball. Classics, contemporary... I miss arcades. Any good arcades in the midwest anymore? I've heard things about one in Chicago (with "retro" games no less) but the name doesn't come to mind right now. Galaxy World was sold a few years ago and now has kiddie rides & other "family fun features". Back in the day there was the bowling alley it was connected to, and the whole place was _very_ seedy, dark, and noisy. I loved it. - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher From rachael_ at gmx.net Sun Jul 15 17:37:19 2001 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Amiga Mosaic source ? Message-ID: <515.596T995T14172255rachael_@gmx.net> Don`t know if this is OT but does anyone have the sourcecode for AMosaic ? According to the Amosaic FAQ it was once to be found at ftp.omnipresence.com, but that company has closed some years ago. The file was named MosaicSrc.lha . Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From aek at spies.com Sun Jul 15 17:47:05 2001 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: baking tapes Message-ID: <200107152247.PAA17148@spies.com> I was able to find a reference this weekend to baking tapes to reduce binder sticking http://www.unesco.org/webworld/ramp/html/r9704e/r9704e11.htm Recovery Recovery of deteriorated tape and/or signal is an intricate process: what works on one problem may well destroy, or at least exacerbate a seemingly similar problem. Sticky tape can be caused by either binder breakdown, lubricant loss and exuding, or problems with the backing. Don't assume that all problems are the same just because they create similar complications. When carrying out any actions that might reasonably be irreversible - such as baking, or chemical treatments, or buffing the tape - be sure that you are treating the correct 'illness' and are not destroying the very thing you are trying to save. * Baking One of the methods used to temporarily improve binder problems, allowing sticky tapes to be played. The information from Ampex - the developer of the tape-baking procedure - on how long and at what temperature to bake has been variously quoted at several conditions. I checked with Quantegy/Ampex for this paper and they tell me that their recommendations are to a) leave the flanges on the hubs/reels, b) use a high- quality convection type oven or an environmental chamber, and c) bake a sticky tape at 113EF/45EC to 131EF /55EC for up to 36 hours (no R/H given) will sufficiently firm up the binder so that the tape can be played. For 1/4" audio tape, baking for 6 to 8 hours is normally adequate; the longer baking times are for wider tape widths, such as 2" video or audio multi-track masters. Quantegy/Ampex warn, however, that the effect of the treatment is temporary, and it is recommended that the tape be copied within one to two weeks. Although some report having 20-or-more successful 'bakes', there is no published or documented information on how many times a tape can be baked, cycling back and forth between the sticky-firm-sticky succession before it fails completely or before the signal is distorted or altered beyond use. Care should be taken that the temperature is well controlled. One of the specific questions raised is about the potential affect of increased print-through from the baking process. There have been no reports of significant problems, but one source recommends lowering the heat (for example, from 55EC to 45EC) and extending the baking time if there is concern. Regardless of the time and temperature selected, do NOT, I repeat NOT, rewind the tape before baking as this will almost certainly increase print-through problems, according to Quantegy/Ampex. Specifically, unless there is absolutely no other option, the hair-dryer-in-a-box solution does not give adequate environmental controls and is not a recommended solution. Regardless of the sophistication of the oven used, be sure and allow the tape to re-acclimatise before handling it, much less playing. * Environmental conditioning/staging Some have reported notable success with environmental conditioning/staging tape instead of either baking or treatment with chemicals. If time allows, try staging sticky tape at 40EF/4.4EC and 20- to-25% RH (the environment that is being considered for long term storage by a number of the collections represented here today) for several weeks to several months before undertaking more aggressive measures. * Chemical treatments, including addition or replacement of lubricants, is another process that has been developed to recover tape with sticky oxide or loss of lubricants. Like baking, it should be used with the greatest of care. The only such processes known to me are proprietary and have not been made available for public use in any detail. * Cleaning In general, tape cleaning should follow the same basic premise as for any other delicate item: use ONLY as much effort and force as is absolutely necessary. To do even that will probably shorten the life expectancy of the tape; to do more will probably actively destroy it. In general, clean with soft, lint-free cloth, such as 3M's Pellon or 3M's #610 Tape Cleaning Fabric. Use moisture and chemicals sparingly, and only after testing on disposable tapes. Buffing/scraping tape is generally rejected by all with whom I have spoken, unless all other efforts have failed. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 15 18:34:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Starting the GUI in Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010715233423.38604.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Andrew Kershaw wrote: > Bill, > > I tried that. I navigated to /usr/openwin/bin/ and typed openwin at the # > prompt. The OS returned the message "openwin: not found" > > :-( Ideas? As has been pointed out elsewhere, it's a path thing. The root account typically does not have "." in the path, *on purpose*. Even if you type "/usr/openwin/bin/openwin", you might find that the rest of your environment is not set up for OpenWindows and/or X. Go create a user account, try it there, if it still fails, you might have a path problems with the libraries, etc. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Jul 15 18:55:48 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <200107130551.WAA16050@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu>; from korpela@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu on Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 10:51:37PM -0700 References: <200107130551.WAA16050@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20010715165547.A18605@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 10:51:37PM -0700, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Do you get the mini-assembler if you have a language card, load > > > integer BASIC into the language card (IIRC DOS 3.3 does this > > > automatically at boot up), and then select integer BASIC? > > > > Yes, I believe so. But I can't remember if it is a separate module you > > must load to get the mini-assembler. > > I'm pretty sure it's there in the same file as intbasic It's there in the same file. INTBASIC is just a ROM dump of INTEGER BASIC, the Programmer's Aid #1 ROM (which was originally sold as a real ROM chop and contains music routines, etc.), and the monitor (not sure which version -- it has the mini-asembler but apparently not the step and trace commands). The mini-assembler is also available on the enhanced //e and newer machines by typing ! from the monitor. No need to load INTBASIC. -- Derek From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 15 19:56:28 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors" (Jul 15, 20:13) References: Message-ID: <10107160156.ZM8238@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 15, 20:13, Tony Duell wrote: > Hmmm... I have the US Beeb schematic somewhere.... OK, found it. > > The US version of the Beeb can output NTSC video. > Having found the US Beeb schematic, that's what they did, almost. The > cystal is 14.318MHz, and there are a couple of other capacitor changes in > the oscillator circuit. The flip-flops are re-numbered (IC46 -> IC96 and > IC44 -> IC97) but the circuit is unchaged electrically. And the output of > IC97b goes to one side of link S32. The centre pin of the link goes to > the xor gate input (now IC99d), the other outside pin is grounded. Set > the link one way and you have PAL, set it the other way and you get NTSC. > I think all BBC B+ machines have this link as standard (even the UK ones). Yes, I they do (mine has it, and it's shown on all the diagrams) and now you mention it, it sounds familiar. Or more accurately, I remember seeing soething about converting US machines back to UK spec (or UK-usable spec, at least). One Acorn dealer re-imported a lot of unsold US and German Beebs some years ago. For readers unfamiliar with the BBC family, the original machines were the Model A and Model B; the A lacking certain components present in the B to provide multiple-ROM support, printer port, user port, serial port, analogue port, 1MHz bus or Tube (2nd Processor) ports, and only having 16KB RAM instead of 32KB. However, upgrading was easy (and both official and unofficial kits were readily available) and there was no difference at all between a B and a fully-upgraded A. Both could be further extended with a disk interface, proprietary network interface, and various third-party addons. Then came the B+. This looked similar from the outside, but had a redesigned PCB with 64K of RAM, some of which was used to "shadow" the screen and OS workspace. There was a 64K upgrade for it, which made it a 128K machine (though you couldn't actually do much with the extra RAM except put BASIC and it's variable space in it). It also used a 1770 or 1772 disk controller rather than the 8271 in the B (though you could fit an 8271 to a B+ or a 1770 to a B). That was succeeded by the Master 128 -- externally as well as internally different. It had a numeric keypad added, used double density disks by default, had two ROM cartridge slots, more comprehensive MOS (machine operating system), several utility ROMs that would be extras for a B/B+ were built in, and it used a CMOS 65C02. It also used more custom chips :-( There were some coprocessor addons for the 128 and other members of the family launched shortly after it, like the Master Compact (a two-box solution) and the ill-fated Econet Terminal (terminal and network software only, no BASIC and no extra interfaces, didn't sell well and was quietly dropped). After that, in 1987, came the Archimedes range, based on the ARM processor. Initially the A310 with 1MB, which still had red function keys to denote its standing as a BBC Microcomputer, then the A440 (grey keys, not a BBC Micro). And after that, the A3000 and its successor the A3010, which were the last with BBC endorsement and once again were single-box systems (like an Apple ][ or Amiga 500, etc). There were many other models in the ARM-based range, ending with the RISC PC, but none were BBC Micros. Despite all this, when someone refers to "a Beeb" they usually mean a Model A or Model B, not a B+ or later. Acorn trivia: the plastic case of the A3000 was deemed not strong enough to support the weight of a multisync monitor, so a sheet-metal stand was devised. The front of it sat on the strong edges of the A3000 case, the rear was supported on a bent-over section. Because it clung to the case, and from the front looked like the outline of a Klingon warbird, it became known as "the klingon". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Sun Jul 15 20:07:13 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... Message-ID: <3B523E41.D7CE8ECF@chartermi.net> Fred, Where was I during VCF? Probably tiling my bathroom. I'm relatively new to the list, so I haven't done any VCFs yet. The one in two weeks is too far away - I'm in Minnesota. Tony always elaborates. :-) That's a good thing. Tony: I hadn't realized that on a PC w/ CGA that the light pen was getting help from the CRT controller. That explains how a relatively simple device can report positioning information - it doesn't, the video card is doing it. So here's a trick question .. what happens when a person holds a lightpen to a dark section of the screen. Is the lightpen completely blind unless come pixel is lit up? Thanks, Mike From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 15 20:57:26 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> the original can cloud your perceptions though, fortunately I live in an >> area with dozens of huge arcades that include the old games in free >> sections. I prefer a modern crt under emulation, to the old TV style > >what area? I live in Champaign/Urbana Illinois these days, but as a kid I SoCal, we have a chain called Nickle Nickle, $1.95 admission and all games are converted to use nickles instead of quarters, with the back 2 rows all free. This is a major savings on games like House of the Dead etc. A little mountain resort town we visited last year, Big Bear California, had a large old building FULL of OLD games including a couple old life size shootem ups. For the new stuff we have Dave & Busters, don't forget your credit card YOU WILL NEED IT. From ofenerci at lynx.dac.neu.edu Sun Jul 15 22:30:14 2001 From: ofenerci at lynx.dac.neu.edu (jsmith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: sdk 85 for sale at ebay Message-ID: <000a01c10da7$a0e86990$6b300a81@neu.edu> Hi everybody, I have a vintage sdk 85 trainer. Please use this link to check it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1255923691&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=995858088&indexURL=0&rd=1 thanks, ozhan fenerci elif_fenerci@larose.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010715/86e6a2ba/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 15 22:34:01 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Toshiba PA2701U Docking Station: Info? In-Reply-To: <000601c10d7b$e7b21230$6401a8c0@fred> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Fred deBros wrote: > How do I make the Toshiba pa2701u docking station capable of running with a > cdrom (instead of the floppy)? There are two ISA slots in it. > Use an ISA generic drivercard and then? disable the floppy addresses and the > serial and the IDE1 so as to have no conflict with the laptop addresses? When I wanted a CD-ROM in a Toshiba docking station, I went with SCSI. an Adaptec ISA SCSI card and a Toshiba SCSI CD-ROM. It worked great. for a few hours. then the power supply in the docking station died. People told me that the power supply can't handle that much load! But how much more load is that than a floppy drive and a network card (the most common configuration for the docking station)? Is it THAT close to the edge? > Anybody know how to get into that durned box without a key? With a drill? > Cavemen! It is not a very hard lock to pick, or if there's no floppy drive in it, can you reach the backside of the lock to undo its mounting hardware (I don't have one handy right now to look)? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sun Jul 15 23:14:23 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: repairing h-scan on a Commodore 1701 References: <3B4A79A7.3FDCEBD9@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3B526A1F.87EFB31@aurora.regenstrief.org> Folks, many thanks to all your encouraging words, Sellam, Tony, and Bill. I didn't need a scope indeed. I almost didn't even need a multi- meter. Just needed to clean up my workbench, open the box, take out the main board and put it into some good light to see the serious crack at the margin of the right side. Fortunately it was a boring corner of the board, so two bridges could be quickly soldered on and fixed the problem. Ah welcome back in Commodore 64 land. Back in 1988 I could not afford the 1701 monitor, now I can enjoy full color, 256 colors, woa! :-) PS: can anybody give me a hint with playing quest for tires? [blush] regards -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Mon Jul 16 00:59:12 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: HPUX on HP 9020 (9000 Series 520) In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 04:28:44PM -0400 References: <994616449.3b48a481e57ec@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <20010716085912.A20857@mail.er-grp.com> On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 04:28:44PM -0400, Vance Dereksen wrote: > > What kind of machine is the 9000/520? MOT? PA-RISC? > HP FOCUS, stack-based wonder from -83 - 86 timeframe. I'd love to get the processor manuals. I don't think it was used anywhere else than in the 9000/5x0 series. I'd love to be wrong though. -- jht From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 16 00:46:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <007201c10c6f$a5d83e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >At the risk of opening old wounds, I'd point out that there's a significant >difference between microprocessors and microcomputing. While the one requires >As in that infamous previous thread, it seems some people have chosen to read >what they wanted to read rather than was was written. That's not my fault, >though. I disagree, and wonder at the point of being so "can't do". Some if not most of my best microprocessor education came from BOOKS. I suggest the addition of an Apple IIe and a logic probe goes a LONG way down the road to understanding, lacking only in the experience that time and a wide variety of systems can give. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 16 01:21:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: <3B50F49C.5D861BE5@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >possessions. I intend to get a few more surge suppressors to protect Don't you need to replace all the old ones too? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 16 01:01:16 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: 3 Days in San Jose, hits/pits In-Reply-To: <200107141452.JAA10276@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200008040032.RAA31554@shell1.aracnet.com> <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Aug 03, 2000 07:20:35 PM Message-ID: >>ES Electronic Solutions on Brokaw, not too exciting. Too well organized >>(shelves of cardboard bins with contents marked) and fully retail priced > Huh? Excess Solutions is one of the best possible places for small >parts and oddities like rack slides. I've shopped at them frequently, and >would not call many of their prices anywhere near "fully retail." > I do hope your trip held enough hits to make it worth running over >the pits. ;-) A man with an apple tree finds apple prices at the store always too high, ditto surplus stuff. I nose around too much at the source level of surplus to be excited by prices in retail stores, and that is what ES is, a retail store. Funny its been just about a year since I made that trip and posted about it, and last week I "found" most of the stuff I bought still in a couple sacks. Goodiwise I would have to say the trip was a total bust, my time hunting around very close to a complete waste. In a month I may be back up in the area, and suspect I won't be going back to 90% of the places in my last visit. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Jul 16 02:48:11 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: ZNR Varistor markings Message-ID: <003801c10dcb$aa4bc8a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Hi all, (And Tony Duell :^) Have a friends Decstation 5000 power supply with a violently blown fuse. (8A/250V) He is a developer of VMS Freeware (in fact the WASD web server) and has asked me to help. Culprit is 2 x ZNR 14K241U devices, which I believe are Metal Film Varistors Surge Absorbers. The numbering system seems to be obsolete as current ZNR Surge Absorbers use a quite different system, or I've guessed wrong and they are something else entirely, but I don't think so. These two gadgets are wired in series with each other, then connected across the output of the mains rectifier. 240vac in, so they are across around 300+ vdc. I could just leave them out and the supply will run, but would much rather replace them to keep the protection they offer. Their appear to be no other faults and the history of the incident is consistent with a switch on surge after an extended holiday (3 weeks) following daily useage of the machine, so it's possible the reservoir caps may be just a little leaky or the varistor was just getting tired. Anyone make sense of the device id so I can figure out what rating to replace them with. Device looks rather like a round ceramic capacitor, but gloss black in colour, marked with white lettering A Logo consisting of a small square box in top left with a capital M inside and ZNR in caps next to it then under it is 14K241U (or the 1's could be ell or i, hard to say). underneath at bottom left is an reversed italic capital R with a reversed italic capital L joined to the back main bar of the R. To the right of this is a small letter s raised above the baseline with the number 20 after it. Any help appreciated. Cheers Geoff in Oz From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jul 16 02:58:09 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Update: Re: MicroVAX equipment6 Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066044@exc-reo1> Eric Dittman wrote: > I didn't think the DEMSA would route DECnet; will > a DESNB? The DEMSA was sold as (at least): DECrouter 2000 - Phase IV DECnet router X25 Router 2000 - Phase IV X.25 and DECnet router WANrouter 500 - Phase V (OSI) DECnet router X25gateway 500 - Phase V (OSI) X.25 gateway (no decnet routing) (It's been a long time, so names and numbers are only approximate ...!) There were also variants with different numbers to run on the single port hardware (DEMSB). So there was (IIRC) an X25gateway 100 for the DEMSB. It could also run SNA software but I had nothing to do with that. The original SNA software would have been for a Phase IV environent. There may have been a later version for a Phase V environment but I don't think there would have been a need for that. The DESNB was a MicroVAX 3600 with some sort of IBM channel connect. Basically a DEMSA with a big pipe into the IBM box. AFAIK the only software that ran on this was the SNA software. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com Mon Jul 16 05:20:14 2001 From: Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: BBC Micro Message-ID: Nice to see such interest in the BBC - I keep forgetting it's not very common outside of the UK. I've got a couple of spare BBC Masters up for swaps if anyone's interested? I'm looking for Xerox technical manuals (see list), software, even hardware if the shipping's not too prohibitive :-) The machines I've got don't have any documentation or software (although you can still buy new Master manuals from 8BS and download whatever you need from all over the net) - they both have a sticky key or two and could probably do with a makeover. I did a first pass at cleaning them up when I got them but haven't spent as much time on them as I could ("my" Beeb gets most of the attention!). If you're not familiar with the Master, it was the follow-on from the Model B and Model B+. Basically the same hardware as the B/B+ with 128K RAM (paged) and a 6510 in place of the 6502, housed in a bigger case with "enhanced" keyboard (ie a keypad) and a couple of cartridge sockets. All the I/O ports of the B/B+ were retained (disk, RS423, 1MMz Bus, "Tube" etc), and they added a couple of popular application ROMs (View and ViewSheet) as well as the ADFS and DFS filing system ROMs as standard (you had to buy these yourself on the earlier B/B+ machines). For us hackers they added a terminal emulator, upgraded BASIC (BASIC IV) and upgraded assembler, very nice! Anyhow, if you're interested in swapping, I'm looking for the following Xerox manuals: XDE 12.0 Users Guide (or later) Mesa Language Manual (11.0 or later) Mesa Programmers Manual ViewPoint Programmers Manual Pilot Programmers Manual Basic Workstation Programmers Manual Services Programmers Manuals Either hardcopy or original VP softcopy is fine :-) If you've got something I've missed off the list I might be interested, drop me a line. Cheers Al From allain at panix.com Mon Jul 16 07:55:33 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <03bc01c10df8$5deabd40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I always 'megger' old transformers and most of them are as good as > the day they were made. > -tony Tony you lost me here. Kegger I heard of. Megger? John A. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jul 16 08:46:50 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jul 15, 1 06:57:26 pm" Message-ID: <200107161346.GAA08702@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >what area? I live in Champaign/Urbana Illinois these days, but as a kid I > > SoCal, we have a chain called Nickle Nickle, $1.95 admission and all games > are converted to use nickles instead of quarters, with the back 2 rows all > free. This is a major savings on games like House of the Dead etc. There's a chain called Wunderland (I think that's how they spell it), at least in San Diego, that has the same setup. Since Star Wars was free play, I think I spent an hour there while my friends almost blew a whole buck(!) on Area 51. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- To err is human -- to forgive is not company policy. ----------------------- From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jul 16 08:38:05 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706604B@exc-reo1> John Allain wrote: > > > I always 'megger' old transformers and most of them are as good as > > the day they were made. > > -tony > > Tony you lost me here. Kegger I heard of. Megger? A "megger" is a meter so he means he checks the winding resistance ... what's a kegger? Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 16 08:52:25 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? In-Reply-To: References: <3B50EDBB.242E54C4@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010716085034.00d84a60@pc> At 09:44 PM 7/14/01 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >When the computer hears from the lightpen that it sees the light, it knows >(I promised over-simplification!) where the light is at that instant, and >therefore, now knows where the lightpen is. It's all about light detection and horizontal and vertical scan timing. There were light pens for the Amiga that worked at a distance and with projection televisions, for example. The same principle is used in old console games for the "gun" that knows what you're pointing at on-screen. - John From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 16 09:34:38 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706604B@exc-reo1> Message-ID: A party involving a keg of beer is a kegger. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > John Allain wrote: > +AD4- > +AD4- +AD4- I always 'megger' old transformers and most of them are as good as > +AD4- +AD4- the day they were made. > +AD4- +AD4- -tony > +AD4- > +AD4- Tony you lost me here. Kegger I heard of. Megger? > > > A +ACI-megger+ACI- is a meter so he means he checks the > winding resistance ... what's a kegger? > > Antonio > arcarlini+AEA-iee.org > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 16 09:55:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <000001c10e09$648029e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see inline comments below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:46 PM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > >At the risk of opening old wounds, I'd point out that there's a significant > >difference between microprocessors and microcomputing. While the one requires > > >As in that infamous previous thread, it seems some people have chosen to read > >what they wanted to read rather than was was written. That's not my fault, > >though. > > I disagree, and wonder at the point of being so "can't do". > While there are a lot of processor-application-related things you are prevented from, or at least, restricted in, accomplishing because of the restrictions placed on the hardware by the design of the platform, there certainly isn't anything you can't do from a computing standpoint. However, that was my point. The things that define a microprocessor-based system are fixed in the Apple, mostly by its video timing restrictions, but also by its memory map and the way in which I/O is managed. If you want to focus on the computING, it doesn't matter what platform you use, since the platform will always impose restrictions that prohibit you from applying the microprocessor fully so long as you're bound to that platform. That's why, no matter how well-designed a "development system" was, it was still difficult to manage the precise target timing. Consequently, many microprocessor-based devices were badly designed and implemented, since their timing was based on the development/in-circuit-emulator system rather than the precise system requirements of their target. The devices I recommended allow their synchronization with any task, yet still allow all the computing capabilities of the device to be exploited. That's where the meat and potatoes of the application of microprocessors, at least when you separate the computing tasks from the hardware operational requirements. That was, after all, the point I was trying to make. For example, right on the floor at my feet are three microprocessor-based hard disk drives. These are perfect examples of what I was driving at, namely, that there are several processors on each drive, and each processor has a specific task, for which it has a carefully selected operating frequency and a processor that accomplishes that task efficiently because it was chosen for an instruction set that provides features desirable for its tasks. This drive in my lap has a Motorola processor handling the host interface, a TI DSP to handle servo and read/write channel issues, and an Intel '188 to manage data transfers and bufering between the two. Another drive, from the same mfg has an Intel processor to manage the host interface, a different MOT processor, and a couple of Fujitsu DSP's. Each one is essentially a separate subsystem with its own memory and I/O. Each one operates with a crystal selected for its particular role in this system. If you look in your supply of old hard disks, you'll undoubtably see much the same thing. It's impossible to guess how much SSI/MSI hardware these replace, but it's for sure that they replace a lot of it, and, because they're computers rather than fixed logic, they can be mdified with much less hassle than the SSI/MSI hardware could have. If one had tried to work out the timing and the various decoding and other I/O related tricks used to do these jobs on an Apple, or any other platform dedicated to its video or other subsystems, it would have been MUCH more difficult than it had to be. It's true, through computing, it's possible to calculate how long a given loop takes, and, with considerable effort, to calculate how that might interact with a process occurring in another subsystem operating at a different rate. Most in-circuit-emulators didn't even support speed-switching or different target and host execution rates. You either operated at the host rate, or the system didn't work properly. > > Some if not most of my best microprocessor education came from BOOKS. I > suggest the addition of an Apple IIe and a logic probe goes a LONG way down > the road to understanding, lacking only in the experience that time and a > wide variety of systems can give. > There's no question that one had to read quite a bit. However, most of the materials written about microprocessors were really dedicated to microcomputing rather than the application of microprocessors. Device manufacturers weren't of much help either because they wanted you to buy their particular development systems, with their limitations, and those didn't often help very much. In the late '80's, third-party develpment support systems ultimately provided support for those applications, of which the HDD's I mentioned were a typical example. The advantage was that the platform didn't restrict the operating rate of the emulators, since each one was slaved to target system timing, and the host system used resources independent of the MPU support hardware. > None of this says that a given thing CAN'T be done, but it's certainly not as convenient to work out a firmware set for a microprocessor that will be processing data at a rate derived from the 1.544 MHz T1 rate on a system that's firmly bound to the timing of a 3.579 MHz color burst crystal. Even if they're running at the same nominal rate, the variation between their respective timing references cause problems. Moreover, when you're devising a subsystem that will be using its own private memory and I/O resources, having a fixed platorm's memory decoding scheme imposing its restrictions on what you do won't make your work easier. That's why I recommended the devices I mentioned in my previous post as a more convenient alternative to the Apple or any other fixed platform. They make it much easier to isolate the processING from the processOR. After all, the firmware/software can be develped on any platform. The hardware is the reason that microprocessors became so important, not to suggest that they could function without the firmware/software, but you get the picture. > From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jul 16 10:24:53 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Recent transputer finds... Message-ID: <3B530744.928F0E3E@olf.com> Well, I am back from my trip to London and picked up my 3 boxes. There are *a lot* of vintage documentation on the transputer including but not limited to: full 3L compilers (Pascal, C, & Fortran) with TBug debugger IMSD100 Occam compiler IMSD705B Occam compiler A nearly complete collection of Occam Users Group newsletters A nearly complete inmos tech notes whitepapers, product info on various transputer vendors user guides for various inmos & transtech boards and boxes and boxes of floppy disks contains various transputer programs and support software. Unfortunately, I didnt have enough space to take the floppy disks, so I had to leave it behind in our London office. I got to pick it up later on when I get back there. As for boards, I am the proud owner of: 2 IMSB012 16-slot transputer tram boards 1 IMSB004-4 evaluation board 1 IMSB001 evaluation board 4 TTG1 graphics tram 1 TTM110 T805 + i860 Vector processor tram and 1 M212 disk controller of some sort. Most of the ICs are missing including the M212. Seems to be some prototype or unfinished board. I'll start sorting out these and start scanning a lot of the documentation. The nice thing about these is it is not in book format, so making it a lot easier to scan. Now, I just need some time to actual do the scanning :-( Cheers, Ram PS: Still looking for an IMSB000 - must be quite rare..... -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 16 10:37:15 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <20010715165547.A18605@eskimo.eskimo.com> from Derek Peschel at "Jul 15, 2001 04:55:48 pm" Message-ID: <200107161537.IAA17362@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2001 at 10:51:37PM -0700, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Do you get the mini-assembler if you have a language card, load > > > > integer BASIC into the language card (IIRC DOS 3.3 does this > > > > automatically at boot up), and then select integer BASIC? > > > > > > Yes, I believe so. But I can't remember if it is a separate module you > > > must load to get the mini-assembler. > > > > I'm pretty sure it's there in the same file as intbasic > > It's there in the same file. INTBASIC is just a ROM dump of INTEGER BASIC, > the Programmer's Aid #1 ROM (which was originally sold as a real ROM chop > and contains music routines, etc.), and the monitor (not sure which version > -- it has the mini-asembler but apparently not the step and trace commands). I recall that now. I believe that by looking at the ROM listing in one of the older Apple ][ reference books I was able to get the step and trace commands back (and save a copy). Eric From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 16 10:56:46 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Starting the GUI in Solaris 2.4 In-Reply-To: from Andrew Kershaw at "Jul 15, 2001 09:18:43 pm" Message-ID: <200107161556.IAA17766@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > I tried that. I navigated to /usr/openwin/bin/ and typed openwin at the # > prompt. The OS returned the message "openwin: not found" "." isn't in your path, so the openwin executable isn't being found. Even if it were found, openwin expects /usr/openwin/bin to be in your path. I doubt it would be able to find any of the other exectuables it needs to run. First, I would suggest creating a user account and using that. Running as root you'll blitz something eventually. csh is much nicer to use than sh anyway. (I'd suggest installing tcsh or bash. They're orders of magnitude better.) Add /usr/openwin/bin to your PATH. Add /usr/openwin/lib to your LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Add /usr/openwin/lib/fonts to your FONTPATH Add /usr/openwin/man to your MANPATH Now, from your home directory, type openwin. Eric From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Mon Jul 16 11:23:08 2001 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: swordfish Def OT References: Message-ID: <023BA9AC.0E2F3026.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Last week SGI stock was at $0.50/share. All the heavy hitters (simulation) are moving to PCIG / PC Host. MUCH cheaper, cheaper to repair (I am a SGI certified Challange/Onyx & Origin 2000/Onyx 2 Tech at my company). Bob Mason classiccmp@classiccmp.org wrote: > > > SGI Onyx 2 and or a Cluster > > http://www.ticam.utexas.edu/ccv/hardware/ > > The Onyx has 6 graphic pipes (3 fat and 3 thin) a total > of 30 graphics channels. The Onyx can drive all 10 back > projectors and the 3 front projectors each at 1280x1024 > or run in stereo at 1024x768 for each projector. > The compaq cluster can also drive all 13 at 1280x1024 and > has a total of 32 vga/DVIO outputs. The graphcis lab also > has a 10 channel stereo sound system. > > Now that would be a cool entertainment system for the home! > > Reuben > > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed. Heathkit H-89A, 64K RAM, hard and soft-sectored floppies, SigmaSoft and Systems 256K RAM Drive/Print Spooler/Graphics board HDOS 2 & CP/M 2.2.03/2.2.04 __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jul 16 11:40:11 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? Message-ID: >From: Michael Brutman > > >I've never seen a light pen in use on any machine ... I've >only seen them in pictures. How do these things work? >Does anybody know how to obtain one or have information >on how to build on? > > >Thanks, >Mike As I understand it the light pen detects the electron beam on the CRT display as it passes the end of the pen and can decode from the timing where the pen is located. Somewhere I have a light pen kit that was used to emulate certain types of IBM terminals. Many hospitals used light pens to move through the menus for patient registration and order entry. Pointer to some more information http://www.ftgdata.com/products/lightpennav.html Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jul 16 11:48:16 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! Message-ID: Many times it's not the surge through the power line but through the phone line that gets you. I've lost two modems that way, one of my friends lost his motherboard with a built-in modem because of lightning. I knew the lightning would be a problem when I saw the power transformer and the pole burning and then I found part of my phone wiring was toasted. My UPS warbles all the time from voltage and line variations. I've got both my router and cable modem plugged in to it. Maybe I'm paranoid, of course I live on a lake in Missouri where trees fall on the power lines all the time, we have thunderstorms and the occasional tornado and the all too common fried squirrel on the transformer. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From brian at quarterbyte.com Mon Jul 16 12:14:41 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Kennedy 9100 tape drive info? Message-ID: <003801c10e1a$ccd9d110$0200a8c0@peachoid> I have the opportunity to pick up a Kennedy 9100 tape drive -- a vac column start/stop drive. (No, I don't NEED another tape drive, but.) Condition unknown. This is definitely not a Pertec-interface drive. Has two what looked like 36-conductor edge connectors, plus or minus. Not 50. Stuff I was able to find online said it emulates the TE-10 drive and uses a TC-11 Unibus controller. Is that correct? Are Unibus controllers plentiful? Does anyone know if there is a q-bus interface for this drive? If so, is it reasonably available? Could you cc me directly in any replies (brian@quarterbyte.com) if you know, as I will have to decide whether or not to take this before I'll see the digest. Thanks so much, Brian From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 16 12:17:12 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >possessions. I intend to get a few more surge suppressors to protect > Don't you need to replace all the old ones too? Tony, Would you care to explain about MOVs, and what happens to cheap "surge suppressors" after they have been overloaded? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 12:26:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <20010715165547.A18605@eskimo.eskimo.com> from "Derek Peschel" at Jul 15, 1 04:55:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1304 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/9b0fb9d5/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 16 12:44:13 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107161346.GAA08702@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Jul 15, 1 06:57:26 pm" Message-ID: >There's a chain called Wunderland (I think that's how they spell it), at >least in San Diego, that has the same setup. Since Star Wars was free play, >I think I spent an hour there while my friends almost blew a whole buck(!) >on Area 51. http://www.wunderlandgames.com They're who I was considering buying a Neo Geo cabinet from, as they're up here in Oregon also. They didn't have any free games at the one my wife and I went to on Saturday, and despite advertising nickle games, all the arcade games were 10-15 cents (still a LOT better than 50-75 cents they'd probably be otherwise). I'm looking for any place in the Portland area (preferably west side) with modern games, the only new game Wunderland had was "Silent Scope 2" and it was broken. It would also be nice to find a place with a LOT of games, as the Wunderland we were at sure didn't fit that description. There is an interesting sounding one in Downtown Portland we're wanting to check out, I think it's called "Ground Kontrol", it's nothing but late 70's and *early* 80's games such as Asteroids, Pac-Man, and the like. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 16 12:46:20 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706604B@exc-reo1> Message-ID: > +AD4- Tony you lost me here. Kegger I heard of. Megger? Meg-ohm resistance v lots of beer. Are these the representative samples of UK v US culture? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 12:35:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <10107160156.ZM8238@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 16, 1 00:56:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3278 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/11825f62/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 12:39:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <3B523E41.D7CE8ECF@chartermi.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jul 15, 1 08:07:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1249 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/289d4e1c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 12:54:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: ZNR Varistor markings In-Reply-To: <003801c10dcb$aa4bc8a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from "Geoff Roberts" at Jul 16, 1 05:18:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1822 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/5f376a6d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 13:04:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <03bc01c10df8$5deabd40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jul 16, 1 08:55:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2420 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/2600b426/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jul 16 13:32:01 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jul 16, 1 06:39:11 pm" Message-ID: <200107161832.LAA07554@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I hadn't realized that on a PC w/ CGA that the light pen was getting > > help from the CRT controller. That explains how a relatively simple > > Yes. On most machines designed to have light pens, the CRT controller > does some of the work. The popular 6845, as I mentioned, has a lightpen > input pin. Incidentally, both the BBC Micro and the Sirius/Victor9000 The Commodore VIC-II also supports light pens in hardware. When the switch is closed, the light pen registers in the chip latch at the current raster position if light is present and an IRQ is generated. (In simplistic terms. *grin*) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From kapteynr at cboe.com Mon Jul 16 13:31:18 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DE1B@msx1.cboe.com> You might not believe it, but I actually have a light pen on my Altair 8800. There was an article in one of the old hobbyist magazines how to do it, and we did it. (my little brother and I) We have a Processor Technology VDM-1 "video display module" in the Altair. This was a very popular add-on module. The VDM-1 allows software to read the current horizontal and vertical sync registers. To make a light pen, we simply put a phototransistor in the end of an empty pen and strung some wires from it to a prototyping card in the Altair. We have a simple circuit that triggers an interrupt whenever a certain threshold is hit The interupt processing software then reads the current horizontal and vertical scan positions from the VDM-1 card. The VDM-1 only has character-level black&white graphics, but we could still draw on the screen by reversing the background of the character blocks. We had never heard of the "mouse" when we did this, so it seemed really high-tech and was quite fun. The mouse is better though :-) -Rob -----Original Message----- From: McFadden, Mike [SMTP:mmcfadden@cmh.edu] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:40 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? >From: Michael Brutman > > >I've never seen a light pen in use on any machine ... I've >only seen them in pictures. How do these things work? >Does anybody know how to obtain one or have information >on how to build on? > > >Thanks, >Mike As I understand it the light pen detects the electron beam on the CRT display as it passes the end of the pen and can decode from the timing where the pen is located. Somewhere I have a light pen kit that was used to emulate certain types of IBM terminals. Many hospitals used light pens to move through the menus for patient registration and order entry. Pointer to some more information http://www.ftgdata.com/products/lightpennav.html Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From pechter at bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com Mon Jul 16 13:55:05 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: ZNR Varistor markings In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jul 16, 2001 06:54:11 pm" Message-ID: <200107161855.f6GIt6K13514@bg-tc-ppp910.monmouth.com> > > Underwriters Labs logo IIRC. An American safety/approval standard. > > -tony Underwriters labs.com http://www.ul.com/mark/index.html -- their logo is also often UL inside a circle. The reversed LR looking stuff is the "Recognized Component marks for Canada and the US: http://www.ul.com/mark/art.htm#ullistcus --Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jul 16 14:16:13 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife References: from Mike Ford at "Jul 15, 1 06:57:26 pm" Message-ID: <3B533D7D.BA27BE4D@olf.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >There's a chain called Wunderland (I think that's how they spell it), at > >least in San Diego, that has the same setup. Since Star Wars was free play, > >I think I spent an hour there while my friends almost blew a whole buck(!) > >on Area 51. > > http://www.wunderlandgames.com > > They're who I was considering buying a Neo Geo cabinet from, as they're up > here in Oregon also. They didn't have any free games at the one my wife > and I went to on Saturday, and despite advertising nickle games, all the > arcade games were 10-15 cents (still a LOT better than 50-75 cents they'd > probably be otherwise). > > I'm looking for any place in the Portland area (preferably west side) with > modern games, the only new game Wunderland had was "Silent Scope 2" and it > was broken. It would also be nice to find a place with a LOT of games, as > the Wunderland we were at sure didn't fit that description. > > There is an interesting sounding one in Downtown Portland we're wanting to > check out, I think it's called "Ground Kontrol", it's nothing but late 70's > and *early* 80's games such as Asteroids, Pac-Man, and the like. > > Zane > Check out this cabinet that is on ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1254200776 Very compact and really cool! Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 16 14:28:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: <200107161832.LAA07554@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <002201c10e2d$72556200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That feature was always a problem to use because the 6845 only had byte-level information about when the light pen strobe occurred. Most people wanted the level of pixel-by-pixel resolution that we all have, by now, come to expect as we get it from our mouse or whatever, but the lightpen required something to generate a pixel count to indicate where, within the byte, the desired location lies. This requires LOTS of effort in software and support in hardware. There were a few fairly effective implementations, but I didn't personally get familiar enough to cook them up from memory. One of the challenges was that there was frequently loss of relative synchronization between the lightpen strobe and the software that would read the pixel counter, which was external to the 6845. This came about because characters (bytes of pixels) were promoted through the external "high-speed-video-timing" logic from the graphics memory or character generator at a fixed rate, with which the system software was not so precisely synchronized that the light pen register could necessarily be relied upon for precise timing. Moreover, since the processor might take variable a bit of time getting to the interrupt that got its attention, the amount of time involved could be off by a byte-time or two, and the sweep logic could be off on the next scan line by then. Additionally, the light pen often was somewhat variable in its response, depending on things like sweep rate, display intensity, etc. These things were pretty fussy! My hat's off to anybody who could put together an accurate and precise light-pen interface hardware and code set. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > > > I hadn't realized that on a PC w/ CGA that the light pen was getting > > > help from the CRT controller. That explains how a relatively simple > > > > Yes. On most machines designed to have light pens, the CRT controller > > does some of the work. The popular 6845, as I mentioned, has a lightpen > > input pin. Incidentally, both the BBC Micro and the Sirius/Victor9000 > > The Commodore VIC-II also supports light pens in hardware. When the switch is > closed, the light pen registers in the chip latch at the current raster > position if light is present and an IRQ is generated. (In simplistic terms. > *grin*) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 16 15:13:01 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:46 2005 Subject: Kennedy 9100 tape drive info? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715135E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > This is definitely not a Pertec-interface drive. > Has two what looked like 36-conductor edge > connectors, plus or minus. Not 50. I'm guessing it might be a StorageTek interface... -dq From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 16 15:09:46 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <000001c10e09$648029e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >While there are a lot of processor-application-related things you are >prevented >from, or at least, restricted in, accomplishing because of the restrictions >placed on the hardware by the design of the platform, there certainly isn't >anything you can't do from a computing standpoint. However, that was my >point. >The things that define a microprocessor-based system are fixed in the Apple, >mostly by its video timing restrictions, but also by its memory map and >the way >in which I/O is managed. ONLY if you restrict yourself entirely to the Apple II hardware. Anything I couldn't directly do internally on the Apple I could put on a protocard and just use the Apple as a convient disc drive and display. >There's no question that one had to read quite a bit. However, most of the >materials written about microprocessors were really dedicated to >microcomputing >rather than the application of microprocessors. Device manufacturers >weren't of >much help either because they wanted you to buy their particular development >systems, with their limitations, and those didn't often help very much. What I was refering to in books were timing diagrams, not how to write a new version of CheckBook. My work in embedded control was as much about gate delays as gosubs. I never ran into the "restrictions" and found the Apple II a very convient platform to develope from. A 6520 on a cheap Apple II I/O card doesn't behave very differently from the same chip on a protoboard as part of a 6502 based controller. Many many apples crossed my bench and sat on my desk with a loom of wires trailing out the back to simulate some process before the "real" boards were ready. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Jul 16 15:42:13 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: It's Alive, ALIVE! Message-ID: Hello to all, Just wanted to share a very tiny, but nonetheless important moment for me. Took a homebrewed S-100 power supply, connected it to a nice Wameco motherboard (thanks ajp!), threw in a Cromemco SCC (thanks Mike for the monitor and Control Basic), and was greeted by a wonderful "OK >" prompt on my terminal. "QUIT" out to the monitor prompt (":"), and fooled around a bit, then a "B" back into Control Basic. Not much I admit, but a working SCC, good EPROMs, and a working PS/motherboard... It felt really good. Next up, I added a Cromemco 8K ByteSaver II, and read out some 2708s. I tried to program a couple, but got stymied. I think I just need to do more "R"ing of TFM. Neat to finally be able to at least read them out. All I need to do is throw in a couple of 16K Static RAM cards, and either a Cromemco TUART or a Godbout Interfacer, and I'll be rocking a bit! Final test is the Dynabyte floppy controller! Baby steps, I admit, but still felt cool.... Rich B. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Jul 16 15:49:22 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. Message-ID: Hello all, I recently acquired an Osborne One, but it seems to be having a video problem -- as in no video at all. I did the obvious - played with the brightness and contrast -- but still nothing. If I press a key on the keyboard, the floppy starts seeking, so I assume the rest of the computer is at least partially working, but I get no video output at all. I have NO docs or schematics, so it's a bit hard for me to test stuff out. The CRT make no noise at all when power is either turned off or on (no static or hum, or anything else). Also, I took the cover off, and carefully looked inside while turning the power on, and the CRT didn't light up, or have any other response. After powering down, a very careful disassembly showed no physical damage signs -- no burn spots, missing components, broken wires, etc. Any clues? This is the blue case, with the modem, and a composite video jack (female RCA jack) in the bottom right.... Rich B. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 16 16:08:53 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Any clues? > . . . and a composite video jack (female > RCA jack) in the bottom right.... YOU just came up with the first clue. Connect a composite monitor and see if there is video reaching the external jack. Is there any software/magic keystrokes, etc. required to activate the external video? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 16 16:24:49 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: It's Alive, ALIVE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Just wanted to share a very tiny, but nonetheless important moment for me. > Took a homebrewed S-100 power supply, connected it to a nice Wameco > motherboard (thanks ajp!), threw in a Cromemco SCC (thanks Mike for the > monitor and Control Basic), and was greeted by a wonderful "OK >" prompt on Congratulations! :-) [...] > test is the Dynabyte floppy controller! Out of curiosity, how many others here have Dynabyte systems or components? I've a Dynabyte 5100 system running MP/M, lots of serial ports, two 8" Shugart floppy drives and a 10" Micropolis (IIRC) hard drive. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 13:31:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Kennedy 9100 tape drive info? In-Reply-To: <003801c10e1a$ccd9d110$0200a8c0@peachoid> from "Brian Knittel" at Jul 16, 1 10:14:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/cc29c405/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 13:42:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 16, 1 10:17:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1934 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/fcff8923/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 16 16:38:44 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: It's Alive, ALIVE! In-Reply-To: It's Alive, ALIVE! (Rich Beaudry) References: Message-ID: <15187.24292.234279.649384@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 16, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Just wanted to share a very tiny, but nonetheless important moment for me. > Took a homebrewed S-100 power supply, connected it to a nice Wameco > motherboard (thanks ajp!), threw in a Cromemco SCC (thanks Mike for the > monitor and Control Basic), and was greeted by a wonderful "OK >" prompt on > my terminal. "QUIT" out to the monitor prompt (":"), and fooled around a > bit, then a "B" back into Control Basic. > > Not much I admit, but a working SCC, good EPROMs, and a working > PS/motherboard... It felt really good. > > Next up, I added a Cromemco 8K ByteSaver II, and read out some 2708s. I > tried to program a couple, but got stymied. I think I just need to do more > "R"ing of TFM. Neat to finally be able to at least read them out. > > All I need to do is throw in a couple of 16K Static RAM cards, and either a > Cromemco TUART or a Godbout Interfacer, and I'll be rocking a bit! Final > test is the Dynabyte floppy controller! > > Baby steps, I admit, but still felt cool.... Sounds like an extremely gratifying victory. Very cool! Congrats! -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 16 16:40:31 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: It's Alive, ALIVE! In-Reply-To: Re: It's Alive, ALIVE! (R. D. Davis) References: Message-ID: <15187.24399.514935.975967@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 16, R. D. Davis wrote: > Out of curiosity, how many others here have Dynabyte systems or > components? I've a Dynabyte 5100 system running MP/M, lots of serial > ports, two 8" Shugart floppy drives and a 10" Micropolis (IIRC) hard > drive. *drool* I've wanted one for years...does that count? ;) -Dave McGuire From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Jul 16 16:40:10 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. Message-ID: There must be a shunt on the video edge connector that comes out at the front middle of the case. It just connects the contact on the bottom with the contact on the top of the circuit board. I can email you more info tomorrow if you need it...got to run now. Bob Feldman -----Original Message----- From: Rich Beaudry [mailto:r_beaudry@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 3:49 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Osborne One -- No video. Hello all, I recently acquired an Osborne One, but it seems to be having a video problem -- as in no video at all. I did the obvious - played with the brightness and contrast -- but still nothing. If I press a key on the keyboard, the floppy starts seeking, so I assume the rest of the computer is at least partially working, but I get no video output at all. I have NO docs or schematics, so it's a bit hard for me to test stuff out. The CRT make no noise at all when power is either turned off or on (no static or hum, or anything else). Also, I took the cover off, and carefully looked inside while turning the power on, and the CRT didn't light up, or have any other response. After powering down, a very careful disassembly showed no physical damage signs -- no burn spots, missing components, broken wires, etc. Any clues? This is the blue case, with the modem, and a composite video jack (female RCA jack) in the bottom right.... Rich B. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jul 16 16:40:39 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066050@exc-reo1> > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >YOU just came up with the first clue. Connect a composite monitor and see >if there is video reaching the external jack. >is there any software/magic keystrokes, etc. required to activate the >external video? Do you need that funny little connector to use external video? (Small black thing, marked EXMON). I vaguely remember some warning about ensuring that the box is powered off when inserting or removing the little beastire. (Oh, for a technical manual ...) Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 16 16:44:11 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. In-Reply-To: Osborne One -- No video. (Rich Beaudry) References: Message-ID: <15187.24619.144510.434381@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 16, Rich Beaudry wrote: > I recently acquired an Osborne One, but it seems to be having a video > problem -- as in no video at all. I did the obvious - played with the > brightness and contrast -- but still nothing. If I press a key on the > keyboard, the floppy starts seeking, so I assume the rest of the computer is > at least partially working, but I get no video output at all. I have NO > docs or schematics, so it's a bit hard for me to test stuff out. The CRT > make no noise at all when power is either turned off or on (no static or > hum, or anything else). Also, I took the cover off, and carefully looked > inside while turning the power on, and the CRT didn't light up, or have any > other response. No light from the CRT's filament? That's a bad sign. If there's enough room in there, it might be a good idea to look carefully at the neck of the CRT and try to identify the filament pins, then check between them with an ohmmeter to see if the filament is open. I have an operational Osborne One here, with the manual...if you want me to look anything up for you, or do any probing, let me know. -Dave McGuire From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 16:53:01 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For Iggy or whoever else might know... Ok, after about 4 years, I now have another Amiga 3000. Cool! The only thing is, after I've popped a set of 3.1 ROMs into it, gotten new from Sotware Hut, it's having SCSI problems. It's giving data errors from the internal drive. I vaguely remember having the same problem with my other 3000 but do not remember the fix. Other than the ROMs, nothing else was changed. I plan on putting the 2.0 ROMs back in just to recheck everything. Anyone? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Jul 16 16:44:25 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. In-Reply-To: "Rich Beaudry"'s message of "Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:49:22 -0400" References: Message-ID: <200107162144.f6GLiPG27811@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Rich Beaudry" wrote: > I recently acquired an Osborne One, but it seems to be having a video > problem -- as in no video at all. I did the obvious - played with the The O1 has a card-edge out the front that carries video signals. If you were using the Osborne external monitor, it would have a cable to mate with this connector. If you are using the internal monitor, there's supposed to be a loopback connector plugged into this (covering the card-edge). Sometimes the loopback connector gets separated from the O1, though, in which case you get no video on the internal monitor. -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 16 15:59:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Interesting... I've heard of the Programmer's Aid 1 ROM (if only > because it's mentioned as a use for one of the 'spare' ROM sockets in > the reference manual), but I know nothing about it. Does anyone know > where I can get documentation on what's there. I've got the manual for it that I recently put away in a box. The next time I get out to my warehouse I'll pull it and then scan it for you. > My main Apple ][ has a language card, so booting DOS 3.3 loads > INTBASIC. It would be nice to know what tricks I can pull with the > 'extra' code... I never used it myself (I started with a second-hand ][+ and everything that came before that was unknown to me until I started collecting :) but apparently it contained subroutines that were useful to the machine language programmer; common routines that you didn't have to spend time writing yourself. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 16 16:01:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > So here's a trick question .. what happens when a person holds > > a lightpen to a dark section of the screen. Is the lightpen > > Nothing happens (literally). The light pen never sees any light, so it > can't send a signal to the video card, so the CRT controller can never > report the position. > > > completely blind unless come pixel is lit up? > > Yes. Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 16:37:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <002201c10e2d$72556200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 16, 1 01:28:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3334 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/97c6ade7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 16:48:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. In-Reply-To: from "Rich Beaudry" at Jul 16, 1 04:49:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2545 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010716/d89b3953/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jul 16 17:16:39 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010716151325.024d7730@209.185.79.193> On slower systems when the light pen is pressed against the screen (or a button is pressed) the screen would "flash" which was the video circuit sending one frame of 'white' so that the pen would detect it. This is how the old console displays on the System/370 worked (god would I love to have one of those to play with) Other systems would light up a single row (move it down through the frame) which was less intrusive visually. There are other ways to make it work but basically without light eventually hitting the sensor you were stuck. --Chuck At 02:01 PM 7/16/01 -0700, you wrote: >Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work >then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) From pechter at bg-tc-ppp83.monmouth.com Mon Jul 16 17:19:23 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp83.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jul 16, 2001 02:01:06 pm" Message-ID: <200107162219.f6GMJOa14158@bg-tc-ppp83.monmouth.com> > Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work > then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > The closest thing I've seen to a drawing program on the DEC VT11/VR17 combination was the RACAL-REDAC circuit board cad program. This would IIRC take two points and draw the vector between them and you could rubber-band stretch it around once the end points were in place. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 16 17:24:00 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > completely blind unless some pixel is lit up? > Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work > then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) There are several ways. What I did (with TRS-80) was that whenever the software saw the SWITCH engaged, it would call the locate function. The locate function would light pixels and then turn them back off. Although you can scan the pixels one at a time (an XOR function is VERY handy), you can also light all of the pixels in the top half of the screen, and then restore them, to find which half of the screen it is. Then light half of that and restore it, etc. You can identify which character positions with less than a dozen writes. Then toggle the "found" position a few times to confirm. The "extra" confirmation tests won't bother the user - "the light pen produces a flashing dot on the screen". In a hardware assisted environment (such as CGA), you can just flash the screen. Note: MY TRS-80 software in BASIC was too slow for commercial release. Others did better. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 15 23:26:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1167.597T1800T3265501optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>Yes. The control board in my Dad's garage door opener was killed by a close >>lightning strike. My sister, who owns the house next door to him, lost the >>motherboard on her PC -- and it wasn't on at the time, just plugged in. > I've seen ISA based internal modems that took surges from >strikes on the line. Some of them looked like they caught fire or at >least got very hot. A month or so ago, we sold a PC-based DEC server which we were given. It did behave rather queerly in the SCSI department, but otherwise fine. We could never establish whether this was due to the absolutely scorched area around on of the screws in the motherboard. It had apprently burned, with a 3 cm radius black spot around the screw. The PCB had literally turned into charcoal, and you could scratch the different layers off like scales. Still, the server ran Win NT without complaining. I suppose that's what sets big-name server gear apart from your common or garden Taiwanese manufacturer. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Idealismus ist die F?higkeit, die Menschen so zu sehen, wie sie sein k?nnten, wenn sie nicht so w?ren, wie sie sind. --- Curt Goetz From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 16 08:20:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Recent DEC additions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1397.597T850T8604447optimus@canit.se> Mzthompson skrev: >The latest addition includes three DECstation 5000/2xx's, one each of >/200, /240, & /260. Also included was two expansion boxes with two >RZ58's, a TZK12 1/4 tape drive, & a RRD42 CDROM drive. Also got a >TK50Z-GA, and a couple 90TL DECservers. Lucky bastard! The 260 is probably as far as you can go as DECstations are concerned. >One machine is loaded memory wise, 288 mb. Another has a couple >extra Turbochannel cards. The first is the TCE Option Module. >The second is an AV01B. It has 60 pin mini-D and two 4 pin RJ >connectors. Some digging revealed it is an "DECaudio card >and distribution box (LOFI)". Anybody know anything beyond that? If it's anything like the audio output on the MAXINE, you can plug a telephone handset into one of those RJ connectors. Only the handset, though, not the entire telephone, as phones tend to expect different voltages. Or something. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. JavaScript has been developed to show scrolling messages on your pages. It should have been named ScrollerScript, but as it came out more or less the same time when the hype on a programming language called Java (poor man's SmallTalk raped by C++ which is expected to solve all problems of the world, including traffic, pollution and AIDS) started, it's creators decided to use the term ``Java'' in it's name, too. -- README for the HTML preprocessor "hsc" From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 16 08:24:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1883.597T1950T8645443optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>There have been several. The most recent ones were the Pocket units. I >>>don't think those had much in common with the original, though. >As far as I can tell, nothing other than having a couple Metal Slug games >and a King of Fighters game (as far as I know none of them are ports of the >full sized games). I wonder what kind of processor it might use. The sound strikes me as quite bleepy. The "joystick", OTOH, is top-notch. >>In the early nineties, the Neo Geo was the Rolls-Royce amongst game >>>consoles. >In some ways it still is, a Cartridge system can still cost you as much as >a Playstation 2! The thing to remember is some of those carts are pushing >1 Gig! With the oldest ones still being in the 50 meg range. It's really absurd... >>There have been CD add-ons as well, and in the mid-nineties, there was some >>new 64-bit unit IIRC. >It looks like the 64-bit unit is arcade only, and has only been used on >about 5 games. >>I'd really like a cabinet with Puzzle Bobble/Bust a Move. I'm spending too >>much money on that game. >As of yesterday my wife is officially addicted to that game! Thankfully, last week, my favourite pool hall modified its cabinet, so that it is now a bill-op in addition to a coin-op. =) >>The Neo Geo is the only real alternative if you're into sprite-based games. >It's great as it's got gorgous 2D graphics (at least on the newer games), >and if you're like me you don't have to worry about motion sickness while >playing any of the games (thankfully 3D fighters don't bother me). Games >like Quake make me so sick it isn't even funny! Modern games just fail to attract me. I was raised on sprite games, then it all died out in the course of a year. I'm sitll wondering why. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant. Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS From mbg at world.std.com Mon Jul 16 17:27:28 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... Message-ID: <200107162227.SAA02225@world.std.com> >Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work >then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) By putting up some sort of target which does provide the light-pen with a light signal. The target is designed in such a way that you cannot move the pen without hitting some part of it, and the software sees a light-pen hit and *re-centers* the target on that point, effectively moving it to where the pen is now pointing. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 16 13:33:23 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706604B@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <20010716222902.WCHO3306.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Carlini, Antonio" > To: "'classiccmp+AEA-classiccmp.org'" > Subject: RE: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors > Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 06:38:05 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > John Allain wrote: > +AD4- > +AD4- +AD4- I always 'megger' old transformers and most of them are as good as > +AD4- +AD4- the day they were made. > +AD4- +AD4- -tony > +AD4- > +AD4- Tony you lost me here. Kegger I heard of. Megger? > > > A +ACI-megger+ACI- is a meter so he means he checks the > winding resistance ... what's a kegger? > > Antonio > arcarlini+AEA-iee.org > Specifically what Tony did used high megaohm tests w/ high voltage potenial at very small current across a two pin that connects to each winding (between turns leakage and winding and the core) for leakage. Insulation on windings go bad with age and use. Cheers, Wizard From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 16 17:44:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jul 16, 2001 05:53:01 PM Message-ID: <200107162244.f6GMirM07735@shell1.aracnet.com> > For Iggy or whoever else might know... > > Ok, after about 4 years, I now have another Amiga 3000. > Cool! The only thing is, after I've popped a set of 3.1 ROMs into > it, gotten new from Sotware Hut, it's having SCSI problems. It's > giving data errors from the internal drive. I vaguely remember > having the same problem with my other 3000 but do not remember the > fix. Other than the ROMs, nothing else was changed. I plan on > putting the 2.0 ROMs back in just to recheck everything. Anyone? The first thought that comes to mind are you running with the newest revision of the SCSI chip? I've got two A3000's, one is near pristine, sitting in the box as a spare (got it from a guy locally who had taken beautiful care of it and a A2000. The other is a *major* dog, BUT, I've upgraded all the chips to the latest Rev, added a DIP to SIMM board with 16MB RAM, added a Picasso IV video board, 10Base2 Ethernet, and a Catweasel. The only thing it needs is an accelerator and a way to add more RAM :^) Downside being I've not used it in 2-3 years. However, I've had major problems with the internal HD getting corrupted. In my case thank goodness for having had a Exabyte 8500 hooked up to it. This was with 3.1 ROMS and OS. I've never run any other version on it except for the few days it took to get 3.1 from Softhut. BTW, what version of the OS are you running? I've been wanting to get the system back out of storage and buy a copy of Amiga OS V3.9 and try that out. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 18:13:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107162244.f6GMirM07735@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200107162244.f6GMirM07735@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Zane, >The first thought that comes to mind are you running with the newest >revision of the SCSI chip? I've got two A3000's, one is near pristine, I was lucky in that it already had the Rev 8 WD chip installed. Unfortunately, that's the only chip that had been updated. I'm thinking that maybe the ROMs changed the SCSI timing and that I'd try removing the terminator packs off of the mainboard and see what happens. I wish I could remember how I fixed this when I got my original 3000 in '94. >However, I've had major problems with the internal HD getting corrupted. In >my case thank goodness for having had a Exabyte 8500 hooked up to it. This >was with 3.1 ROMS and OS. I've never run any other version on it except for >the few days it took to get 3.1 from Softhut. I powered this one up with the original 2.0 ROMS and WB 2.1 installed and everything worked great. The video slot had been hacked a little to mount a Video Toaster in it but everything appeared to work ok. It was only after changing the ROMs that it started acting up. >BTW, what version of the OS are you running? I've been wanting to get the >system back out of storage and buy a copy of Amiga OS V3.9 and try that out. I've got the 3.9 CD sitting there ready to install once I get the SCSI voodoo figured out. I'm going to back up the software on the internal drive and do a clean install though. The funny thing is, I had preordered OS 3.5 from Software Hut a couple of years ago when it was announced but had canceled it when I sold my A4000. Now I've got this A3000 and ordered the OS 3.9 from them. It's nice to still have one of the old-line Amiga dealers still around. It would've been interesting to see what got sold off when Paxtron went under. I've always wished that I had bought one of the C-65 mainboards when they had them for sale a few years back. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 16 18:36:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra Message-ID: Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. I was wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to 68060? What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. Peace... Sridhar From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 16 19:00:45 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010630101159.00aa9560@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <006201c10e53$8ba49ca0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 1:24 PM Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 > > >I would guess that they are RK05, I just hauled 2 RL01's > >into the garage. Further looking on the web leads me to > >think that there maybe 3 card cages 2 standards and 1 > >enhanced with the keypad. > > The traditional nomenclature is that you have one CPU (that's the one with > the keypad) and two expansion chassis. I brought the expansion chassis home today. One is 220 and the other 110. The rental company messed up my reservation so I'll have the truck next week to get the remaining 2 racks and cpu, the RK05 drives and the decwriter. My wife wants the machines in the basement sorted and shelved before I start on mopre machines in the garage so it may be a few weeks before I can post an inventory. I've already been warned about reconditioning the capacitors in the power supplies, any other warnings. Any links with reassembly instructions. I didn't notice a paper tape reader thsi time either :( From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Mon Jul 16 19:01:07 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 16-Jul-2001 Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_quadra/stats/mac_quadra_800.html says it came out in 1993. > I was > wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to > 68060? > What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. http://www.lowendmac.com/quadra/q800.html might interest you -Philip From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 19:05:07 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. I was >wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to 68060? >What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. For the scoop on upgrades and other good info on this machine, go to: http://www.lowendmac.com/quadra/q800.html I've never heard of an '060 board for any of the Mac's. As fas as I know, only Amiga's and a few workstations used the CPU. Since the 800 is a 33mhz '040, it's about as far as it can go with the 68k family CPU. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 16 19:11:33 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. I was >wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to 68060? >What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. Subject of MANY mac discussions, but no you can't use a 68060 in a mac. A few other options though are; clock chip the Q800, maybe 20% Deck it out, full ram, nice fast drive, video card with acceleration. Motherboard swap with a 840AV. Why do you want to upgrade, ie whats wrong? Why not go to a PPC? From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 16 19:17:43 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <1883.597T1950T8645443optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 16, 2001 02:24:39 PM Message-ID: <200107170017.f6H0HhS23105@shell1.aracnet.com> > >In some ways it still is, a Cartridge system can still cost you as much as > >a Playstation 2! The thing to remember is some of those carts are pushing > >1 Gig! With the oldest ones still being in the 50 meg range. > > It's really absurd... Not really, they've never been produced in high volume, and there are a lot of very good, visually appealing games, even by todays standards. > >>I'd really like a cabinet with Puzzle Bobble/Bust a Move. I'm spending too > >>much money on that game. > > >As of yesterday my wife is officially addicted to that game! > > Thankfully, last week, my favourite pool hall modified its cabinet, so that it > is now a bill-op in addition to a coin-op. =) Do yourself a favor, investigate MAME. I invested $220 yesterday on a PCI ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon and a second USB Gravis Gamepad Pro. It took a couple hours, but my old PII/333 that had basically been retired as a Linux box, is now running Windows (ugh!), and is sitting in the living room connected to our TV (without a monitor). Really need a faster system with a better disk though, as some of the games need a lot faster processor, but it's about good enough for the Neo Geo stuff. Puzzle Bobble and Puzzle Bobble Again rock on this system! Now the only problem is getting my wife off of it. > Modern games just fail to attract me. I was raised on sprite games, then it > all died out in the course of a year. I'm sitll wondering why. Overall, I'd just as soon have a really good game with seriously dated graphics (TacOps on the Mac & PC comes to mind, and I think the original Mac versin is old enough to be on topic). However, I do enjoy good 3D fighters with totally killer graphics. Zane From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 16 15:22:52 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010717001827.XHMF3306.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:05:07 -0400 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: Macintosh Quadra > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. I was > >wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to 68060? > >What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. > > For the scoop on upgrades and other good info on this machine, go to: > > http://www.lowendmac.com/quadra/q800.html > > I've never heard of an '060 board for any of the Mac's. As > fas as I know, only Amiga's and a few workstations used the CPU. > Since the 800 is a 33mhz '040, it's about as far as it can go with > the 68k family CPU. Lowendmac.com is excellent. There is doubled clocked version of '040 at 66 and it is drop in but very hard to find and fetches too much cost for little gains. Cheers, Wizard > > Jeff > -- From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 16 19:22:17 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: from "Master of all that Sucks" at Jul 16, 2001 07:36:43 PM Message-ID: <200107170022.f6H0MH102975@shell1.aracnet.com> > Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. I was > wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to 68060? > What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. Mac's never used the 68060, and at this point finding a PPC upgrade might be tricky. Still as I recall that's about the best 68k Mac you can get. Zane From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Jul 16 19:34:47 2001 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. I was >wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to 68060? >What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. First, there were no 68060 Macs(they went PPC after the 040), and as best as I can remember, there were no 060 upgrades and if there were I doubt that MacOS would support it. I think an 040 would be just fine... But why don't you want to go to PPC? The only upgrades I can think of are PPC 601 and fast(like maybe 50MHz) 68040s. Might be able to find those upgrade cards on eBay or the Mac newsgroups. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 16 19:37:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107162244.f6GMirM07735@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200107162244.f6GMirM07735@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >BTW, what version of the OS are you running? I've been wanting to get the >system back out of storage and buy a copy of Amiga OS V3.9 and try that out. Forgot to mention that the A3000 actually has both OS 2.1 and Linux 68k installed. There's an option in it's dock to boot into Linux, which causes the A3000 to reboot. It halts partway through the boot process though with a console error. This before I swapped ROMs. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 19:27:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 16, 1 01:59:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 962 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/cd22b30d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 16 19:31:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 16, 1 02:01:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 904 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/c84d683c/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 16 19:48:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <002201c10e5a$257ed880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There's no doubt about it, Mike, the Apple was quite useful for a lot of things. I simply pointed out that with a different device, costing about $90 rather than the considerably more that an Apple][ cost back in '79, you could do much of the same stuff, unfettered by the restrictions that the Apple hardware put on you. Now, I don't remember what an Apple proto card cost back then (I still have one of those I bought back in '80) but those were bought to build a HDC for the Apple. I find the 6801L1 quite a bit better for dealing with the basics of handling microprocessor related issues, since they don't have the video timing logic defining the clock rate. That's not because the Apple is bad, but because it's easier to deal with the naked processor than the entire system. Having the ability to define a clock rate based on your application needs rather than those of the video timing makes it possible to save on costs and effort. Many applications, particularly those of low volume, make it cheaper, overall, simply to build an Apple, or, nowadays, a PC into the solution. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 2:09 PM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > >While there are a lot of processor-application-related things you are > >prevented > >from, or at least, restricted in, accomplishing because of the restrictions > >placed on the hardware by the design of the platform, there certainly isn't > >anything you can't do from a computing standpoint. However, that was my > >point. > >The things that define a microprocessor-based system are fixed in the Apple, > >mostly by its video timing restrictions, but also by its memory map and > >the way > >in which I/O is managed. > > ONLY if you restrict yourself entirely to the Apple II hardware. Anything I > couldn't directly do internally on the Apple I could put on a protocard and > just use the Apple as a convient disc drive and display. > > >There's no question that one had to read quite a bit. However, most of the > >materials written about microprocessors were really dedicated to > >microcomputing > >rather than the application of microprocessors. Device manufacturers > >weren't of > >much help either because they wanted you to buy their particular development > >systems, with their limitations, and those didn't often help very much. > > What I was refering to in books were timing diagrams, not how to write a > new version of CheckBook. My work in embedded control was as much about > gate delays as gosubs. I never ran into the "restrictions" and found the > Apple II a very convient platform to develope from. A 6520 on a cheap Apple > II I/O card doesn't behave very differently from the same chip on a > protoboard as part of a 6502 based controller. Many many apples crossed my > bench and sat on my desk with a loom of wires trailing out the back to > simulate some process before the "real" boards were ready. > > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 16 19:47:42 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: [win2x@hotmail.com: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage] Message-ID: <20010716194742.J4908@mrbill.net> A 11/780 and a Sun 3/470 up for grabs near Dallas. Bill ----- Forwarded message from Roger Garcia ----- From: "Roger Garcia" To: mrbill@decvax.org Subject: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:38:19 -0500 Bill, Hello, I emailed you previously about a rescue for a Sun 3/470 w/ Mass Storage. There is a Vax 11/780 in need of rescue in Richardson,Tx 75081. Very large but could be a "vaxbar project for someone", I saw on ebay where some boards from a 11/785 went for $100.00 we would like to recover some of our costs for picking it up,if possible. I also still have the 3/470 with mass storage unit still available. If you know anyone interested in these units please have them email me for contact information. Sincerely, Roger Garcia win2x inc. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 16 19:54:18 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Me?? Who else would start with "What's to explain?" and follow it with five paragraphs of useful information? From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Jul 16 20:04:08 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Test - List working? Message-ID: <01e801c10e5c$635e7780$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Don't seem to have seen any traffic here for a while. Geoff in Oz From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 16 20:13:14 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: [win2x@hotmail.com: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage] In-Reply-To: <20010716194742.J4908@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jul 16, 2001 07:47:42 PM Message-ID: <200107170113.f6H1DEx08220@narnia.int.dittman.net> > A 11/780 and a Sun 3/470 up for grabs near Dallas. > > Bill > > ----- Forwarded message from Roger Garcia ----- > > From: "Roger Garcia" > To: mrbill@decvax.org > Subject: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage > Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:38:19 -0500 > > Bill, > Hello, I emailed you previously about a rescue for a Sun 3/470 w/ Mass > Storage. There is a Vax 11/780 in need of rescue in Richardson,Tx 75081. > Very large but could be a "vaxbar project for someone", I saw on ebay where > some boards from a 11/785 went for $100.00 we would like to recover some of > our costs for picking it up,if possible. I also still have the 3/470 with > mass storage unit still available. If you know anyone interested in these > units please have them email me for contact information. Ah, if I only had the room and the power outlet. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 16 20:18:02 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: QBUS Board Identification Message-ID: <200107170118.f6H1I2u08246@narnia.int.dittman.net> I found some QBUS boards that I can't identify from the field guide. The numbers are: M8950 M8951 M8952 M8953 M8955 M8958 M8970 M8971 M8972 M8973 I believe some of them are parts of a tape controller, and one of the boards had an i8085 along with some ROMs. There's also a board with a bunch of ROMs that has the notation "8085 ROM BOARD". I have no idea of the origin of the boards. I found them in a cabinet while I was looking for some documentation. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 16 20:10:17 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 7:12 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Macintosh Quadra -> Why do you want to upgrade, ie whats wrong? My question as well - I have a 68040 Quadra 650 and it runs just as fast as most of my Pentium 133 (or faster) machines and is networked too. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 16 19:46:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1369.598T600T1064085optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: >> > So here's a trick question .. what happens when a person holds >> > a lightpen to a dark section of the screen. Is the lightpen >> >> Nothing happens (literally). The light pen never sees any light, so it >> can't send a signal to the video card, so the CRT controller can never >> report the position. >> >> > completely blind unless come pixel is lit up? >> >> Yes. >Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work >then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) The only light pen I've worked with is the Vectrex pen. And while a vector screen differs somewhat from a CRT (it's non-linear, which doesn't help decoding), the drawing program simply projected a dot on the screen, which was moved using the pen. IOW, the dot was registered by the pen, and placing the pen in any other spot on the screen didn't result in anything, one would have to move the dot around as a pointer, much like drag-and-drop. I suppose CRT programs worked the same way. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I can't understand ANY current MICROS~1 product names! Are they now created with a random word generator? What is the intent behind the name "Visual Studio" for their compiler suite? What is "Interdev"? Why is the Virus Transfer Protocol product named "Outlook"? Grumpy Ol' Fred From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 16 21:09:32 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:47 2005 Subject: Light Pen for PCjr or PC? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010716085034.00d84a60@pc> Message-ID: <999.598T1600T1895653optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 09:44 PM 7/14/01 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >>When the computer hears from the lightpen that it sees the light, it knows >>(I promised over-simplification!) where the light is at that instant, and >>therefore, now knows where the lightpen is. >It's all about light detection and horizontal and vertical >scan timing. There were light pens for the Amiga that worked >at a distance and with projection televisions, for example. >The same principle is used in old console games for the >"gun" that knows what you're pointing at on-screen. I'm not certain about newer light guns, but the old NES ones certainly didn't know what you were pointing about. Whenever the trigger was pulled, the screen would blank, and through timing when the optosensor in the gun would report the flash, the console could establish where it was pointing. But only when the trigger was pulled. Otherwise, the system was oblivious to where the gun was pointed. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 16 21:26:41 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1028.598T2050T2065195optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: > Ok, after about 4 years, I now have another Amiga 3000. >Cool! The only thing is, after I've popped a set of 3.1 ROMs into >it, gotten new from Sotware Hut, it's having SCSI problems. It's >giving data errors from the internal drive. I vaguely remember >having the same problem with my other 3000 but do not remember the >fix. Other than the ROMs, nothing else was changed. I plan on >putting the 2.0 ROMs back in just to recheck everything. Anyone? First of all, is it terminated? We had a really serious drive crash last week since I had removed some devices on the SCSI chain and the termination along with it. Secondly, the A3000 NVRAM actually contains some SCSI settings in addition to the normal clock/calendar. It may be set with several programs on the Aminet. Secondly, no, make that thirdly, try to lower the MaxTransfer setting for each partition in HDToolBox. This should even be the first solution. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 16 21:14:47 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: QBUS Board Identification In-Reply-To: QBUS Board Identification (Eric Dittman) References: <200107170118.f6H1I2u08246@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15187.40855.924707.689998@phaduka.neurotica.com> I believe these are a board set from a TU78 or TA78 tape drive. -Dave McGuire On July 16, Eric Dittman wrote: > I found some QBUS boards that I can't identify from the field > guide. The numbers are: > > M8950 > M8951 > M8952 > M8953 > M8955 > M8958 > M8970 > M8971 > M8972 > M8973 > > I believe some of them are parts of a tape controller, and > one of the boards had an i8085 along with some ROMs. There's > also a board with a bunch of ROMs that has the notation "8085 > ROM BOARD". > > I have no idea of the origin of the boards. I found them in > a cabinet while I was looking for some documentation. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Mon Jul 16 21:21:08 2001 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: QBUS Board Identification References: <200107170118.f6H1I2u08246@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B53A114.57E44D6A@pacbell.net> Eric Dittman wrote: > > I found some QBUS boards that I can't identify from the field > guide. The numbers are: > > M8950 > M8951 > M8952 > M8953 > M8955 > M8958 > M8970 > M8971 > M8972 > M8973 > According to the module list at http://pdp-8.org/mixed.txt they are: M8950 TM78,READ CHANNEL M8951 TM78 ERROR CORRECTION BOARD M8952 CRC + ACRC, TM78 M8953 READ PATH SEQUENCER, TM78 M8955 TM78 PORT M8958 TM78 TRANSLATOR M8970 STI INTERFACE MICRO BD (QUAD) M8971 STI INTERFACE DRIVER BD (QUAD M8972 TA78 MICROCOMPUTER, QUAD M8973 8085 EXTENDED MEMORY,DBL8.5 From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Jul 16 23:09:38 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Looking for RA7x series disks References: Message-ID: <3B53BA82.EE7E62EA@arrl.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > Is there any chance anyone here has any RA7x series disks they want to > get rid of?? I just got an old 3000 series VAX that the previous owner > thought had DSSI. It tuens out it has SDI and one dead RA70 in it. I > would like to be able to use this without anchoring it to an RA80 or RA81. > > Afterall, I thought I was the last masochist left still running SDI on > anything. :-) > > bill I've got a RA70 sitting on my desk, tested good on the 11/785 at work a few months back. If you have a RD5x series drive to swap, so much the better. The RD53 in my 11/83 died a few months back and my attempts to mate a UC07/scsi combo to it have proven unsucessful. -- nick o From thompson at mail.athenet.net Mon Jul 16 22:12:21 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: QBUS Board Identification In-Reply-To: <200107170118.f6H1I2u08246@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > M8950 > M8951 > M8952 > M8953 > M8955 > M8958 > M8970 > M8971 > M8972 > M8973 M8950-00 TM78,READ CHANNEL M8952-00 CRC + ACRC, TM78 M8953-00 READ PATH SEQUENCER, TM78 M8955-00 TM78 PORT M8958-00 TM78 TRANSLATOR M8970-00 STI INTERFACE MICRO BD (QUAD) M8971-00 STI INTERFACE DRIVER BD (QUAD M8972-00 TA78 MICROCOMPUTER, QUAD From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 16 22:45:04 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Dynabytes (was: It's Alive, ALIVE!) In-Reply-To: <15187.24399.514935.975967@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: [Dynabytes] > *drool* I've wanted one for years...does that count? ;) Considering how few people appear to know what a Dynabyte is, you get my vote for that counting! :-) If it's any solice, this is a computer system so loud that ear-plugs are recommended for being in close proximity to it... it's that Micropolis drive in the metal chasis that drives up the dBs. Isn't it amusing to think of some random bizdroids using one of these systems in an "office atmosphere" somewhere? :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 16 22:12:40 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <829.598T2000T2525373optimus@canit.se> John Rollins skrev: >>Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. I was >>wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to 68060? >>What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. >First, there were no 68060 Macs(they went PPC after the 040), and as >best as I can remember, there were no 060 upgrades and if there were >I doubt that MacOS would support it. I think an 040 would be just >fine... But why don't you want to go to PPC? The only upgrades I can >think of are PPC 601 and fast(like maybe 50MHz) 68040s. Might be able >to find those upgrade cards on eBay or the Mac newsgroups. You could OTOH run an Amiga Mac emulator. Those run natively on a 68060. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Wer nichts zu sagen hat, sagt es auf Englisch." (-Walter Kr?mer, bez?gl. Anglizismen.) From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 16 22:20:27 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <778.598T1350T2604519optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: > I've never heard of an '060 board for any of the Mac's. As >fas as I know, only Amiga's and a few workstations used the CPU. Plus MVME boards, Atari clones and of course a lot of embedded things. What workstations, though? Most of them went RISC before the '060. Sun went from '030 to SPARC, HP went from '040 to PA-RISC. Ah yes, there are '060 accelerator for the Sharp X68, too. =) Anyone know anything about '060 based Sinclair QL systems? >Since the 800 is a 33mhz '040, it's about as far as it can go with >the 68k family CPU. The 840 AV runs a 50 MHz one IIRC. Or at least 40 MHz. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Idealismus ist die F?higkeit, die Menschen so zu sehen, wie sie sein k?nnten, wenn sie nicht so w?ren, wie sie sind. --- Curt Goetz From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 16 22:27:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Collecting vs. My Wife In-Reply-To: <200107170017.f6H0HhS23105@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <2496.598T1100T2674997optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >> >In some ways it still is, a Cartridge system can still cost you as much as >> >a Playstation 2! The thing to remember is some of those carts are pushing >> >1 Gig! With the oldest ones still being in the 50 meg range. >> >> It's really absurd... >Not really, they've never been produced in high volume, and there are a lot >of very good, visually appealing games, even by todays standards. I know, I just think that so many megabits stored on ROM is a bit absurd. And expensive. >> >>I'd really like a cabinet with Puzzle Bobble/Bust a Move. I'm spending >> >>too much money on that game. >> >> >As of yesterday my wife is officially addicted to that game! >> >> Thankfully, last week, my favourite pool hall modified its cabinet, so that >> it is now a bill-op in addition to a coin-op. =) >Do yourself a favor, investigate MAME. I invested $220 yesterday on a PCI >ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon and a second USB Gravis Gamepad Pro. It took a >couple hours, but my old PII/333 that had basically been retired as a Linux >box, is now running Windows (ugh!), and is sitting in the living room >connected to our TV (without a monitor). Really need a faster system with a >better disk though, as some of the games need a lot faster processor, but >it's about good enough for the Neo Geo stuff. Puzzle Bobble and Puzzle >Bobble Again rock on this system! Now the only problem is getting my wife >off of it. 333 MHz and old? I'm writing this on a 25 MHz machine, and I don't consider that old. My fastest machines are a 133 MHz Pentium and a 166 MHz Alpha, neither of which is fully assembled or running anything. Besides, obtaining a fully-fledged multiple-megahertz PC system in order to play 10 MHz games really strikes me as crossing the river to fetch water. >> Modern games just fail to attract me. I was raised on sprite games, then it >> all died out in the course of a year. I'm sitll wondering why. >Overall, I'd just as soon have a really good game with seriously dated >graphics (TacOps on the Mac & PC comes to mind, and I think the original Mac >versin is old enough to be on topic). However, I do enjoy good 3D fighters >with totally killer graphics. I did enjoy Tekken after som manual reading, but beat'em-ups (save IK+) are too complicated for me. And 3D lacks the level of control I like. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 16 23:01:05 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <002201c10e5a$257ed880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >There's no doubt about it, Mike, the Apple was quite useful for a lot of >things. >I simply pointed out that with a different device, costing about $90 >rather than >the considerably more that an Apple][ cost back in '79, you could do much >of the >same stuff, unfettered by the restrictions that the Apple hardware put on you. Sure, BUT my first programming was on a AIM65 with backup to cassette. An Apple II cost me close to $5000 vs the $500 or so for the AIM65, but having floppy drives made it worth every penny. Now the tables are turned, and Apple IIe is maybe $5 and the AIM65 $50 or $100. From marvin at rain.org Mon Jul 16 23:32:37 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: OT: Scaling Supercomputers With Linux References: <778.598T1350T2604519optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B53BFE5.58E46F8A@rain.org> A friend just sent this to me, and while not quite 10 years old :), it is MOST interesting! **************** ** Scaling Supercomputers With Linux Up in the wilds of Wisconsin and Minnesota, where the nights grow cold in August, a band of ex-Cray Research engineers is cooking up what could be a hot answer to Linux's scalability shortcomings. Cray's former chief architect for massively parallel processor systems, Steve Oberlin, is CEO of Unlimited Scale Inc. Working out of his home in Chippewa Falls, Wis., and employing fewer than a dozen former Cray colleagues in South St. Paul, Minn., Oberlin says his new company, formed last year, aims to build a Linux architecture for scaling supercomputers made of low-cost nodes. It's an important challenge, as financial-services companies, life-sciences firms, and oil-exploration companies seek to build high-performance systems from low-cost components, often running the Linux operating system. "Clusters today represent another step along the price-performance curve," Oberlin says. But it's not easy trying to build scalable systems from commodity hardware designed for assembling desktop computers and small servers. "Lashing together tens or hundreds of thousands of processors isn't as easy as it appears when you apply it to real-world problems," says Gary Smaby, a supercomputing analyst and a principal of Quatris Fund, an investor in Unlimited Scale. As the number of CPUs in a Beowulf-style cluster--a group of PCs linked via Ethernet--increases and memory is distributed instead of shared, the efficiency of each processor drops as more are added. Enter Oberlin. Unlimited's solution involves tailoring Linux running on each node in a cluster, rather than treating all the nodes as peers. The idea is to free some computers from getting bogged down in processing-interrupt requests from peripherals, while letting a second set of machines run the full operating system, furnishing the cluster with networking, job scheduling, input/output, and other capabilities. Says Oberlin, "On application nodes, you want the operating system to get out of the way." - Aaron Ricadela Get more background at Linux On Steroids informationweek.com/thisweek/story/IWK20010628S0019 IBM To Build Linux Supercomputer For NCSA informationweek.com/story/IWK20010117S0011 From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Tue Jul 17 01:00:08 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 16-Jul-2001 Tony Duell wrote: > Even if they don't fail totally, a large spike can damage them > sufficiently that their characteristics are changed. It's not a bad idea > to replace the MOVs (the components themselves are not expensive) in any > device that has received a large spike. I sther anyway to tell if the MOV is failing? During a thunderstorm last week, there was a large (but not earth shattering) *KA-BOOM* and the power went out for about 20 minutes. Power went out again the following noon, so I wandered out of town (I live in a small village) to see what the work crew were doing. Seems to poles needed replacing! The T bars at the top (what's the proper term?) were at non-standard angles. Wind causing a transformer to blow? Rain? I don't think it was a lightning strike, because the poles were halfway down the hillside, with silos and trees nearish, but furthur up the hill... Anyway, i have the following protecting my computer gear : http://www.tripplite.com/products/surge/surge_specs.cfm?family=Isobar&prod_ name=ISOTEL%204%20Ultra I'm wondering if i should worry. > Most consumer-grade spike proteectors seem to use somewhat underated > MOVs. You can get higher energy ones from electronic component > suppliers, > and there's no reason not to fit these. They're less likely to fail in > the future. I dunno. I don't really trust my soldering skills anywhere near a "critical" component like that... -Philip From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Jul 17 00:32:29 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010716223211.03032590@mail.zipcon.net> didn't motorola make a clock doubled version of the 040??? At 05:11 PM 7/16/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi. I'm not sure if it's ten years old yet, but here goes. I was > >wondering if it were possible to upgrade my Macintosh Quadra 800 to 68060? > >What are my options? I really don't want to go PowerPC. > >Subject of MANY mac discussions, but no you can't use a 68060 in a mac. > >A few other options though are; > >clock chip the Q800, maybe 20% >Deck it out, full ram, nice fast drive, video card with acceleration. >Motherboard swap with a 840AV. > >Why do you want to upgrade, ie whats wrong? > >Why not go to a PPC? From ecloud at bigfoot.com Tue Jul 17 01:39:38 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 07:42:15PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20010716233938.A16987@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 07:42:15PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > Most consumer-grade spike proteectors seem to use somewhat underated > MOVs. You can get higher energy ones from electronic component suppliers, > and there's no reason not to fit these. They're less likely to fail in > the future. What about using multiple ones in parallel? I have a lot of them that I got in a "mystery box" once (from Circuit Specialists, in Mesa). -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 16 19:27:32 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "Re: Light Pens ..." (Jul 16, 14:01) References: Message-ID: <10107170127.ZM9133@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 16, 14:01, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work > then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) It works by doing what Chuck described (flashing a frame or a line) or as Megan described (using a target). I've seen it done both ways. I've never seen a commercial lightpen do what I did, using the low light from "black" (which isn't quite black) to trigger a sensitive detector -- a detector that sensitive is just too prone to being swamped by ambient light, I discovered. It was fine when the pen was pressed against the tube, but goes haywire when lifted away. I fitted a touch switch to mine to prevent that, but it still took the amplifier a moment to settle. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 16 19:17:01 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Light Pens ..." (Jul 16, 18:39) References: Message-ID: <10107170117.ZM9127@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 16, 18:39, Tony Duell wrote: > > So here's a trick question .. what happens when a person holds > > a lightpen to a dark section of the screen. Is the lightpen > > Nothing happens (literally). The light pen never sees any light, so it > can't send a signal to the video card, so the CRT controller can never > report the position. > > > completely blind unless come pixel is lit up? > > Yes. That's not necessarily *quite* true. I built a lightpen for my Beeb years and years ago, based on an article in a magazine. It used one of the RS "Sweet Spot" devices and at first I had some trouble making it work. The following month the magazine published a followup indicating that not all Sweet Spot devices worked, and suggesting alternatives, but by then I'd figured out that there was a speed-of-response problem and also a sensitivity issue and had played with other detectors. I found that if the brightness was set so that black was *just* not visible, a suitably adjusted lightpen on a short-persistence monitor could detect dark pixels. It was, however, *much* easier with lit pixels. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 16 19:11:02 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors" (Jul 16, 18:35) References: Message-ID: <10107170111.ZM9123@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 16, 18:35, Tony Duell wrote: > > Yes, I they do (mine has it, and it's shown on all the diagrams) and now > > you mention it, it sounds familiar. Or more accurately, I remember seeing > > soething about converting US machines back to UK spec (or UK-usable spec, > > Preumably that involves moving the link, replacing the colour subcarrier > crystal amd replacing the BASIC (and MOS?) ROM? Yes, and changing the link in the PSU. > > at least). One Acorn dealer re-imported a lot of unsold US and German > > Beebs some years ago. > > What's a German Beeb? Does it have the QWERTZ keyboard layout and German > messages in the ROM ? Is that the only difference? I never actually saw one, but as far as I know, the differences -- if any -- were very small. I'm not even sure they translated all the messages. There was a problem with selling Beebs in Germany -- the safety and emissions regs were tighter at the time than in the UK, and at one point Acorn wouldn't sanction sales to Germany. > One thing to emphasise here is that the A and B machines both used the > same PCB, so upgrading was a matter of adding the extra chips and moving > various links (for example to enable the ROM select circuitry rather than > always having the BASIC ROM selected). Absolutely. And as you point out, you only had to add the things you wanted, though if you added all the "missing" chips, sockets, and set the links, there was no way to tell (other than the serial number) that the machine had started as an "A". > Real hackers just got the circuit diagram and went off to buy the chips :-) Yup. Which is how I discovered that Watfraud's "A to B Upgrade Kit" was incomplete -- it looked cheaper than the sum of the parts, and when I looked at the contents I realised why. They had started from the premise of adding a printer, serial port, RAM, etc; and hadn't realised they needed little things like the 74LS161 that latches the ROM bank select. I suspect they'd never looked at the diagram and certainly not been on any of the Acorn courses, but merely copied parts lists from some other vendors individual upgrades. > > Then came the B+. This looked similar from the outside, but had a > > redesigned PCB with 64K of RAM, some of which was used to "shadow" the > > The circuitry was very different in some places, with more ULAs > (Uncommitted Logic Array chips, basically mask-programmed ASICs). The > original BBC micro had 2 ULAs, one for the serial/cassette ports > (included the baud rate generator, cassette modulator/demodulator, etc) > and one for video (colour lookup table, etc). The B+ had at least one for > memory control as well. Actually, that one is a PAL. > I thought the B+ schematic showed an 8271 disk controller. Or are you > saying that all B+'s shipped with a 1770 kludgeboard in them. Not a board; the main PCB has places to fit either a 1770 or an 8271. Both upgrades (you could buy a B+ without the interface) included a few extra chips (buffers, etc) but there were a couple in the 8271 kit not required in the 1770 kit (74LS123, IIRC, and I think one other). The service manual lists the whys and wherefores; I'll dig it out if you're interested. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rnlion at its.caltech.edu Tue Jul 17 01:54:28 2001 From: rnlion at its.caltech.edu (Rob Lion) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: MountainGate RDR Message-ID: I recently acquired a MountainGate RDR storage system of some kind. I don't know much about it or how it would be used, but the price was right... Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew anything about this sytem. What I have are 3 large rackmount cases, Units 0, 1, and 2, each with an ISA backplane and 8x Quantum Grand Prix 4.3GB drives. Unit 0 is the controller, with a 486 SBC, 420MB boot drive, parallel/CGA? card, and 10baseT ethernet. It also has a pair of "Acces I/O Products" model LT2-AT cards, with 100-pin connectors on the back panel. It then has 4x RAID controller cards (I think, they are entirely unlabeled) -- the most prominent/relevant chips are 2x Western Digital WD33C93 and a TI TMS320C25. Finally, there is some sort of master controller card that sasys MountainGate on it, with a DB-37 connector on the back panel. The 5 controller cards are connected with a 50 pin ribbon cable bus, and the 4 drive controllers have a pair of 10 pin ribbon cables bussing them together, one of which goes to a pair of DB9s on the back panel. Unit 1 and Unit 2 are similarly configured, but with only the 4 drive controllers and the master controller, and 1 LT2-AT each. I have tried to power the whole system up, but the only CGA screen I have is really flaky, so I can tell that _something's_ going on on the screen, but I can't read it. Hopefully I'll be able to track down an ISA VGA video card soon; I had one but loaned it to a friend. If anyone knows anything about this system, please let me know. Thanks a lot, Rob Lion From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 04:46:34 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: <829.598T2000T2525373optimus@canit.se> References: <829.598T2000T2525373optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >You could OTOH run an Amiga Mac emulator. Those run natively on a 68060. =) I'd then suggest picking up one of the Emplant boards with the Mac serial ports. You could then do all the standard Localtalk stuff. Of course, for just a modem, it works fine off of the Amiga serial port. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 17 06:11:44 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Scaling Supercomputers With Linux Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151366@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Since at least discussing Supercomputers is on-topic, I guess we can proceed... It's an interesting sales point, but as those who are even more in the know than I have said, a large cluster of computers is *not* a supercomputer; there are (see comp.sys.super for more details) classes of problem that each lends itself to, and that the other does not. But of course, any computer can be used to do what any other computer can do, so it may be a moot point. -dq From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Jul 17 07:59:10 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. Message-ID: Hello all, To answer the replies so far.... 1) There is a small black connector labeled "Do no remove when power is on" or something to that effect. I does indeed cover a card-edge style connector. I did remove it, power OFF, and I didn't recall it had anything conductive inside. It just looked like a plastic plug. I'll have to look again, when I go home this evening... 2) I did try the composite video output. Nothing there, either. 3) As I stated before, there was no light from the CRT at all, after taking the cover off and powering up. I will perform the ohmmeter test suggested by Dave McGuire tonight. - As for the composite video connector... Does anyone know if there is any magic keystroke or other setting to enable this? Perhaps if the internal monitor is dead, I can still use an external one... From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jul 17 08:13:11 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: [win2x@hotmail.com: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage] In-Reply-To: <200107170113.f6H1DEx08220@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20010716194742.J4908@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010717080949.02d4ee50@127.0.0.1> As far as power goes for the 11/780, it looks like it may be possible to feed one with standard 115V, with three separate feeds. I'm very close to starting mine up as soon as I complete a conversion box. I'm going to power each phase from a separate 115V branch for tests, and then later have an electrician run dedicated feeds to the office. I had 2/3 of mine running a couple of weeks ago on a single branch for about 20 seconds before the breaker tripped. It was just a test.... : ) Anyway.... it looks possible to run one from 115..... - Matt At 08:13 PM 7/16/01 -0500, you wrote: > > A 11/780 and a Sun 3/470 up for grabs near Dallas. > > > > Bill > > > > ----- Forwarded message from Roger Garcia ----- > > > > From: "Roger Garcia" > > To: mrbill@decvax.org > > Subject: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage > > Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:38:19 -0500 > > > > Bill, > > Hello, I emailed you previously about a rescue for a Sun 3/470 w/ Mass > > Storage. There is a Vax 11/780 in need of rescue in Richardson,Tx 75081. > > Very large but could be a "vaxbar project for someone", I saw on ebay > where > > some boards from a 11/785 went for $100.00 we would like to recover > some of > > our costs for picking it up,if possible. I also still have the 3/470 with > > mass storage unit still available. If you know anyone interested in these > > units please have them email me for contact information. > >Ah, if I only had the room and the power outlet. >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From marek at czernohous.de Tue Jul 17 09:03:24 2001 From: marek at czernohous.de (Marek Czernohous) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <00c501c10ec9$3fe37090$3519e684@ub.unifreiburg.de> hmm you said, that you admin a network with NMS9100 in it. I have the same computer at home but its missing his BIOS Disk. Do you have still one of these or know where to get it? thanx, Marek Czernohous -- marek@czernohous.de From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Jul 17 09:05:06 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: M212 Transputer Disk Controller Message-ID: <3B544612.7BF04B42@olf.com> Hi, Does anyone have a spare M212 transputer??? Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Jul 17 09:04:10 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. Message-ID: I have an Osborne I Technical Reference manual, ut it is a bit skimpy on the video (no circuit diagrams, for example). It does provide a pinout for the video connector. The signals come from the bottom and the shunt carries them to the top, where they go to a single inline connector that connects to the monitor. Looking at the edge connector from the front (numbered right to left, odd on top, even on the bottom), the signals are: 2 Ground 4 Brightness High 6 Brightness Low 8 Brightness Arm 10 Ground 12 Horizontal sync 14 +12V 16 Video out 18 Vertical sync 20 Ground The shunt just connects the top contact to its mate on the bottom: 1 to 2, 3 to 4, etc. The inline connector pinout is 1 Horizontal Ground 2 Brightness High 3 Brightness Low 4 Brightness Arm 5 Ground 6 Horizontal sync 7 +12V 8 Video out 9 Vertical sync 10 Video Ground First thing to check is to make sure that you are getting +12V on contac1 14 of the circuit board and pin 7 of the inline connector. The Brightness High, low and arm go to a 100K pot (arm to the wiper). Line 8 (video goes to a 500K pot connected to 10 (video ground). The manual notes: "Warning: The video connectors contain TTL-level signals along with +12 Volts, and are quite vulnerable to damage by accidental misconnections." As to the RCA socket, I had a Tan case Osborne I, and I do not remember that it had a composite video connector. You needed an adaptor (about 1.5"x1.5"x0.75" that plugged on the edge connector in place of the shunt. One brand was Exmon (sp?), as another poster mentioned. I saw something that looked like one at a surplus electronics website a few months ago. I don't recall which, but I will try to find it again. You should see the big Osborne "O" logo and ROM version info when you turn the computer on. There was no special keystroke combination to switch to external monitor. I forget what the 52/80/102 character display switch was, but I think that was through software. The higher video resolutions required a daughter board, which was a later addition on my tan-case O1. -----Original Message----- From: Rich Beaudry [mailto:r_beaudry@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 7:59 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Osborne One -- No video. Hello all, To answer the replies so far.... 1) There is a small black connector labeled "Do no remove when power is on" or something to that effect. I does indeed cover a card-edge style connector. I did remove it, power OFF, and I didn't recall it had anything conductive inside. It just looked like a plastic plug. I'll have to look again, when I go home this evening... 2) I did try the composite video output. Nothing there, either. 3) As I stated before, there was no light from the CRT at all, after taking the cover off and powering up. I will perform the ohmmeter test suggested by Dave McGuire tonight. - As for the composite video connector... Does anyone know if there is any magic keystroke or other setting to enable this? Perhaps if the internal monitor is dead, I can still use an external one... From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 17 08:55:17 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <200107162227.SAA02225@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010717085421.0269e480@pc> At 06:27 PM 7/16/01 -0400, Megan wrote: >>Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work >>then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) > >By putting up some sort of target which does provide the light-pen >with a light signal. The target is designed in such a way that you >cannot move the pen without hitting some part of it, and the software >sees a light-pen hit and *re-centers* the target on that point, >effectively moving it to where the pen is now pointing. I think the technical term for that is a "cursor". :-) - John From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 09:50:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: Message-ID: <005201c10ecf$fc284040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've only handled one system that had a light pen on a raster display. My experience with a lightpen is actually limited to the vector displays on CDC systems back in the early-mid '60's. They were quite precise in their placement on the rather large screeen, and didn't make first-approximations and let you correct as you went as one might do on a raster display. Since putting a pixel under the light pen was tantamount to making the entire screen white and then erasing/redrawing it, which took quite a while, and that's not what they did, what do you suppose they did on those storage tubes? BTW, with a small-enough aperture at the tip of the light pen, they could have achieved single-pixel resolution, though it might not have been terribly helpful, since the amps used back in the '80's when the 6845 weren't generally fast enough to resolve a single pixel at, say, 16 MHz, which was a pretty slow dot clock, but adequate for the popular rasters of that time, e.g. 512-768 pixels per line. Some makers did manage it, however. more questions/comments below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:31 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > > Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work > > then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) > > Simple : You make sure there's something displayed where the light pen > is, like a cursor. > > Typically, when you put the pen on the screen, the machine moves a block > or crosshairs about until it finds the light pen (sometimes it just lights > up the whole screen). Once it knows where the lightpen is, it displays a > 'cursor' at that location. The important thing about the cursor is that > it's larger than the resolution of the light pen (say a 3*3 array of > lightpen 'pixels). Then, when the user moved the lightpen, the machine > detects that the lightpen is no longer over the centre block of the > cursor, and moves the cursor so that it is. The cursor thus follows the > lightpen around the screen, that always providing something for the > lightpen to detect. > What do you suppose they did to keep the cursor centered? Did the integrate the waveform from the light pen? How would they handle the vertical centering? Do you suppose they might have used two integrators with one for each axis? I can envision such a scheme allowing them to acquire the pulse from the light pen, then detect the peak and resolve to the single-pixel resolution with a pixel counter. The scheme would work for either axis, though the pixel counter would only be involved in the horizontal scan. The Motorola system on which I saw the demo of a "full" implementation of the light pen together with a 6845 was able to do the job all right, but I'd be surprised to learn they didn't have a dedicated processor just for diddling with the cursor location to track the light pen. I can see that the button on the light pen was used to invoke a "find the pen" command, and, probably, while the button was pressed, tracked the position of the pen on the CRT. That would explain the presence of a 68121 (68121 = 6803+6834 on a single device) video board, since that was possibly where the intelligence for the light pen, plus the 2-ported semaphores + RAM for sharing data between the two processors (68K+68121) would reside. It made for a pretty complex system, though. I doubt this sort of thing would have popped up in a system costing less than $10K at the time. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Jul 17 11:08:52 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 Message-ID: <3B546314.8C78FAE4@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I bought a VT420 from a neighborhood garage sale ($5) that turned out not to work. Turn it on and I saw nothing happening. Only heared a faint "fip ... fip ... fip ..." kind of sound, you know that one "fip" when a screen comes on, just a little softer and repeated about 1 per second and no screen came on. Opened the box and powered on, the kathode in the tube didn't seem to glow. More inspection turned out that what seems like a ceramic capacitor was exploded or fried, all black and crummy, impossible for me to identify its specs. Can someone help me out with a schematics or databook or something? Again the terminal is DEC VT420 the blown-up capacitor is C621. What kind of collateral damage do I have to expect? I mean, does a fried capacitor normaly cut short? Here are some hints: - That C621 is in close proximity to C617, another sizeable capacitor. However there are no marks left on that one after cleaning the explosion site :-) - A diode D603 is also in that neighborhood, doesn't look bad, but I didn't test it yet. - I do see suspicious brown-coloration in an area farther off around D607 and R649. I wouldn't be surprized if R649 was fried. - R650 is in next to R649 but looks fine to me, though I didn't test it. It's always a problem to test components while in the circuit, don't know what I should expect. I appreciate any help. thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 10:55:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <000001c10edb$a2fe8360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I was one of those who went for the AIM-65 when it came out, but found it too limiting because of its "features" and facilities. It seems that the more facilities a system provides, the less flexibility one has in its use. I stand by my previous comment, namely, that the single-chippers with a built-in or programmed-in monitor offered a better solution to the problem of LEARNING/EXPERIMENTING with microprocessors than did either the Apple or the AIM-65 or other devices of that sort. Hindsight's always 20/20, as they say, and I base that comment on the fact I've been able to figure out more things with a single-chip device that could be adapted to a task without hindering its I/O capabilities, yet didn't have to be slaved to the I/O either. Your comment about the FDD's is right on target, Mike. That's why so many people used the Apple][ for development. Writing an OS for the AIM or something of that ilk, or, for that matter, for a single-chipper, would have been a serious pain, and, for most of us, unlikely to happen. However, with a ROM-resident debugger and line-by-line assembler, it was possible to get quite a bit done. The LILBUG monitor, which is what was built into the ROM on a 6801L1, as an example, had a reader and punch function, which could be used to dump to an audio tape interface, though I personally never used it in that way. It could also be used to dump to a serial port, and, with a host system that used its console as a terminal to the single-chipper, you had lots of options where lodaing and saving code were concerned. The Lilbug monitor has the option of allowing its console function to be routed through an external serial port at a user-defined location, and to use an external counter/timer chip as well, though I'm not sure why except perhaps to free the internal faciliites for development use. Routing the console to an external ACIA (MC6850) is helpful when one is developing an application that requires the presence of the internal serial port and counters. It does, of course, place restrictions on what one can do, but I find that a small price for the added funcitonality in cases where it's needed. It's the same way with the Apple hardware environment. If you want the functions, you have to put up with the associated restrictions. It certainly wasn't difficult to use a CP/M box to send a block of code to the resident monitor on the single-chipper. Back then I used cross-assemblers under CP/M (this was before the rise of the PC) to support those efforts. Using a monitor that had the capability merely to dump a block of binary code translated to ASCII-HEX to the console was enough to enable the file to be saved on a host system. That rendered the use of a dedicated develpment system with in-circuit emulator unnecessary, though not totally without potential merit. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > >There's no doubt about it, Mike, the Apple was quite useful for a lot of > >things. > >I simply pointed out that with a different device, costing about $90 > >rather than > >the considerably more that an Apple][ cost back in '79, you could do much > >of the > >same stuff, unfettered by the restrictions that the Apple hardware put on you. > > Sure, BUT my first programming was on a AIM65 with backup to cassette. An > Apple II cost me close to $5000 vs the $500 or so for the AIM65, but having > floppy drives made it worth every penny. Now the tables are turned, and > Apple IIe is maybe $5 and the AIM65 $50 or $100. > > > From Demon02554 at aol.com Tue Jul 17 11:24:30 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Wanted items Message-ID: <36.18a164f0.2885c0bf@aol.com> ok...i need to know if anyone has any twinaxial cable m/m and m/f about 6 feet long (the kind that would connect a monitor to an IBM Sys 36) also i was curious if anyone had an EGA monitor or a VM-1 monitor if anyone is willing to sell me any of these then please email me personally to let me know thanks Robert Cobbins From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 11:43:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: <1369.598T600T1064085optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001b01c10edf$980a6b00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I haven't given this matter a moment's thought for over three decades, but now I'm curious how that CDC system figured out where I was pointing the light pen when I selected a component from the menu, which was at the right margin of the screen, and placed it on the screen. Those big tubes were storage types back then and raster displays just didn't have the bandwidth to display what these did. Any thoughts? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Sellam Ismail" Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:46 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > Sellam Ismail skrev: > > >On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > >> > So here's a trick question .. what happens when a person holds > >> > a lightpen to a dark section of the screen. Is the lightpen > >> > >> Nothing happens (literally). The light pen never sees any light, so it > >> can't send a signal to the video card, so the CRT controller can never > >> report the position. > >> > >> > completely blind unless come pixel is lit up? > >> > >> Yes. > > >Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work > >then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) > > The only light pen I've worked with is the Vectrex pen. And while a vector > screen differs somewhat from a CRT (it's non-linear, which doesn't help > decoding), the drawing program simply projected a dot on the screen, which was > moved using the pen. IOW, the dot was registered by the pen, and placing the > pen in any other spot on the screen didn't result in anything, one would have > to move the dot around as a pointer, much like drag-and-drop. > I suppose CRT programs worked the same way. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > I can't understand ANY current MICROS~1 product names! > Are they now created with a random word generator? > What is the intent behind the name "Visual Studio" for their compiler suite? > What is "Interdev"? > Why is the Virus Transfer Protocol product named "Outlook"? > Grumpy Ol' Fred > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 11:49:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: <10107170127.ZM9133@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003201c10ee0$64b91980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The light pen on the CDC system had a button that had to be pressed when one wanted its attention. Likewise, the MOT system that I mentioned earlier had a button also. Consequently, I'd conclude that one normally pressed the button when it was in contact with the face of the tube and released it when it was still there, so ambient light was not so big an issue. With a switch, of course, the response time issues you mentioned before became very real, since switch bounce can be quite long, and, more than one scan line might go by while the switch is debounced. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:27 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > On Jul 16, 14:01, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work > > then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) > > It works by doing what Chuck described (flashing a frame or a line) or as > Megan described (using a target). I've seen it done both ways. I've never > seen a commercial lightpen do what I did, using the low light from "black" > (which isn't quite black) to trigger a sensitive detector -- a detector > that sensitive is just too prone to being swamped by ambient light, I > discovered. It was fine when the pen was pressed against the tube, but > goes haywire when lifted away. I fitted a touch switch to mine to prevent > that, but it still took the amplifier a moment to settle. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 17 11:49:55 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151371@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >By putting up some sort of target which does provide the light-pen > >with a light signal. The target is designed in such a way that you > >cannot move the pen without hitting some part of it, and the software > >sees a light-pen hit and *re-centers* the target on that point, > >effectively moving it to where the pen is now pointing. > > I think the technical term for that is a "cursor". :-) There was an article in an early issue of Byte that described how to build a lightpen and rudimentary code to drive it. I believe it was for the Processor technology VDM-1 (and so you could do it with a SOL too). The full-matrix block cursor was just one of many characters stored in the character generator chip. You'd have to calibrate the pen interface so that only a cursor block would put out enough light to trigger the interface to have a hit available. So you'd write out a row of cursors, starting at the top row, looking for a signal from the pen. Once you find the row, you'd repeat the sequence colmun-by-column until you again got a hit. Now you know the X,Y coordinates of then pen, and you can do whatever you want at that point. Select the object under the pen, repeat the depositing of some character sequence, etc. To draw with this particular display, of course, you'd have to draw using some pre-defined screen character as the "nib". I never got that far- I build the pen, still have it, and I put quite a bit of effort into re-writing the code, all on paper.. then I moved out, forgot it, and the girlfriend threw my code away. but I digress... -dq From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 11:59:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Wanted items References: <36.18a164f0.2885c0bf@aol.com> Message-ID: <004901c10ee1$d4b2c280$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I saw at least a dozen EGA montiors last time I visited the local thrift stores. Do you really want one badly enough to pay the freight? Most of the common VGA types will work with an adapter cable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: Wanted items > ok...i need to know if anyone has any twinaxial cable m/m and m/f about 6 feet long (the kind that would connect a monitor to an IBM Sys 36) > > also i was curious if anyone had an EGA monitor or a VM-1 monitor > > if anyone is willing to sell me any of these then please email me personally to let me know > thanks > Robert Cobbins > > From michael.grigoni at cybertheque.org Tue Jul 17 12:12:22 2001 From: michael.grigoni at cybertheque.org (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ? Message-ID: <3B5471F6.D6DE9014@cybertheque.org> Greetings: I would very much appreciate the help of a U.K. resident in calculating postage to ship an approx. fifteen pound box of manuals (and floppies) from England to the U.S. We need to do this without mortgaging the farm, so a slow boat across the pond is preferred. The originating location is: Tushingham Cheshire SY13 4QR and the destination is Duluth, MN, USA. Please reply to All help is _VERY_ much appreciated. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Jul 17 12:19:45 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Wanted items In-Reply-To: <36.18a164f0.2885c0bf@aol.com> Message-ID: You're about a week late on asking this one - I just sent 2 boxes of twinax and connectors to the metals yard but I may find one laying around. I'll get back with you direct if I find one in the next few days. If you get desperate you might try http://www.cnaweb.com or http://www.blackbox.com for the ends or maybe even sort ready-made cables. Of course you need a crimper for the pins unless you get the solder type. Either way remember that they are polarized, with the brass colored wire going to the dot on the insulator. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Demon02554@aol.com -> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:25 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Wanted items -> -> -> ok...i need to know if anyone has any twinaxial cable m/m and -> m/f about 6 feet long (the kind that would connect a monitor to -> an IBM Sys 36) -> -> also i was curious if anyone had an EGA monitor or a VM-1 monitor -> -> if anyone is willing to sell me any of these then please email -> me personally to let me know -> thanks -> Robert Cobbins From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Jul 17 12:20:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Video ram Message-ID: Got video ram from a list member today, 44256-80's, and I now have 1mb video on the builtin S3 card for my Dell 4066/XE server. If anyone has more on it's way I can still use it as I have another Dell machine that also upgrades the same way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/581d2dfa/attachment.html From peckrwood at usa.net Tue Jul 17 08:27:17 2001 From: peckrwood at usa.net (peckerwood) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01071713271701.11103@pw20.pwt.net> On Saturday 14 July 2001 02:06, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > How about on my DS5840/VAX6000? Doesn't have MFM. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 07:42:27PM -0400, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > > Hi. I seem to find this connector with 50 pins in three rows in a > > > D-shell on my VAXservers and VAXstations. I even have one or two on my > > > DECsystem 5840. Could someone tell me what they are? Three rows. 17 > > > - 16 - 17. > > > > it's the MFM "Extention" cable. you can put external MFM devices on it. > > > > -brian You are right. The VS3100 doesn't have MFM either. That type connector was used for a lot of things. Most likely SCSI on the MV3100 and VS3100. I think the 8-port serial card on the MV3100 used a centronics type connector but may have also used one of those. If you have a male and a female it may be the qbus extention or TSV05 cab kit. Also printer interfaces used that connector. Only the old MV-I, MV-II, MV2000, etc used it for MFM or tape although I suppose any q-bus vax could have an old MFM or tape controller or any of the above on it. PW From rws at enteract.com Tue Jul 17 12:52:16 2001 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: [win2x@hotmail.com: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage] In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010717080949.02d4ee50@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > As far as power goes for the 11/780, it looks like it may be possible to > feed one with standard 115V, with three separate feeds. Yes it is, with one exception that I think you've found, from your description. There is a 3-phase transformer and power supply that runs the power distribution box relays and such. But the actual meat of the thing is run off 115 (all phase-to-neutral when run on 120/208 Y). I was planning to run mine from split-phase residential 240v, with maybe 4 supplies on one side, 2 on the other, and the Unibus expansion cabinet and some drives on the side with 2. Good luck in getting it running. Richard Schauer rws@enteract.com From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 17 13:04:10 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: VAXserver 3100 question References: <01071713271701.11103@pw20.pwt.net> Message-ID: <011501c10eea$e1c05920$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >I think the 8-port serial card on the MV3100 used a centronics type connector >but may have also used one of those. Confusing matters somewhat may be the names, on my uVII the centronics connector as described here connects to a "H3100" adaptor. That was the name for the 8 port Serial card. John A. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jul 17 13:01:46 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066056@exc-reo1> >I would very much appreciate the help of a U.K. resident in >calculating postage to ship an approx. fifteen pound box of >manuals (and floppies) from England to the U.S. We need to >do this without mortgaging the farm, so a slow boat across >the pond is preferred. The originating location is: The originating location is (I think) irrelevant as long as it is within the UK mainland (which yours is, unless Cheshire has been badly flooded lately ...). If noone else chips in first, I'll have a play on the scales tomorrow. That would give a price via Parcelforce (or whoever the Royal Mail use). I don't have much experience with shipping in either direction but I'll ask to see if anyone in the office can find out how DHL or UPS calculate their charges. As a very rough estimate, work out how much the reverse route (i.e. US->UK) would set you back. I would be surprised if there is more than a factor of two (but I bet UK->US costs more !) A 2kg manual cost about $20 US->UK about a year ago. Antonio From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 17 13:08:53 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: <1369.598T600T1064085optimus@canit.se> <001b01c10edf$980a6b00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <011d01c10eeb$8a841560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I'm curious how that CDC system figured out where I was pointing the light > pen when I selected a component from the menu, which was at the right > margin of the screen, and placed it on the screen. > Those big tubes were storage... Storage tubes could display in non stored mode. If the write beam was below a threshold it wouldn't store, and would need to be refreshed. The 'refreshment' generated the necessary timing signal. Menus were probably always non-stored for that reason. John A. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jul 17 13:08:04 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066057@exc-reo1> > Feldman, Robert wrote: > >I have an Osborne I Technical Reference manual, ut it is a bit skimpy on the >video (no circuit diagrams, for example). It does provide a pinout for the My Osborne came with a folder (hand-)labelled "Field Service Manual" full of odds and ends ... including a bunch of schematics. At least two of the schematics have traces labelled VIDEO so I assume that for once I'm lucky and I actually have a reasonable amount of info about one of my machines :-) I can scan the schematics assuming a) someone wants them and b) someone has somewhere I can ftp them two. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Tue Jul 17 13:21:02 2001 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ? In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066056@exc-reo1> Message-ID: Parcelforce using airmail from the UK to the US is very quick - nearly always less than one week. The cheaper alternative has taken over 7 weeks the last two times I have used it. The rates are 1.0Kg Datapost 32.85 Standard 15.60 Economy 13.20 2.0Kg 39.05 21.80 17.20 4.0Kg 50.40 33.75 24.45 8.0Kg 69.10 55.75 38.15 Prices in ukp Datapost up to 2 days UK to US Standard up to 5 days UK to US Economy up to 20 days UK to US (I suspect a lot longer!) Kevin Murrell > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Carlini, Antonio > Sent: 17 July 2001 19:02 > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ? > > > >I would very much appreciate the help of a U.K. resident in > >calculating postage to ship an approx. fifteen pound box of > >manuals (and floppies) from England to the U.S. We need to > >do this without mortgaging the farm, so a slow boat across > >the pond is preferred. The originating location is: > > The originating location is (I think) irrelevant > as long as it is within the UK mainland > (which yours is, unless Cheshire has been > badly flooded lately ...). > > If noone else chips in first, I'll have a play on > the scales tomorrow. That would give a price > via Parcelforce (or whoever the Royal Mail > use). I don't have much experience with > shipping in either direction but I'll ask > to see if anyone in the office can find out > how DHL or UPS calculate their charges. > > As a very rough estimate, work out how > much the reverse route (i.e. US->UK) > would set you back. I would be surprised > if there is more than a factor of two (but > I bet UK->US costs more !) > > A 2kg manual cost about $20 US->UK > about a year ago. > > Antonio > > From cureau at lycos.com Tue Jul 17 13:44:42 2001 From: cureau at lycos.com (Christopher M Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: pathways for vms setup Message-ID: I'm trying to find some information on configuring pathways tcpip for my vaxserver. Might anyone out there be able to help me? Cheers, Chris --- I for one, was glad when Congressman John Glenn went back into space. I was a bit disappointed when he returned, however. Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Jul 17 14:25:59 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: [win2x@hotmail.com: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage] In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010717080949.02d4ee50@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010717141908.02d4b480@127.0.0.1> Richard, Forgot about that transformer.... I removed two of the three fuses that feed power to the other phases of the transformer and checked the voltage of the power supply that operates the interlock system and also monitored the temperature of the components on the board as well as the transformer. After running it for about an hour with the main relay pulled in, it seemed that the transformer and power supply were handling the single phase feed okay. For everyone on the list: please keep in mind that these checks were not comprehensive and were just a simple test to see if a easy conversion from phase to single phase could be made with no internal modifications to the VAX. I intend to make a conversion box that the stock power plug mates with, with integral voltage and ammeters in the box to monitor the power supply to the VAX. If these conversions are successful, I'll make my notes, observations, and schematics available to all. I can't wait to get it all running....... : ) - Matt At 12:52 PM 7/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > > > As far as power goes for the 11/780, it looks like it may be possible to > > feed one with standard 115V, with three separate feeds. > >Yes it is, with one exception that I think you've found, from your >description. There is a 3-phase transformer and power supply that runs >the power distribution box relays and such. But the actual meat of the >thing is run off 115 (all phase-to-neutral when run on 120/208 Y). I was >planning to run mine from split-phase residential 240v, with maybe 4 >supplies on one side, 2 on the other, and the Unibus expansion cabinet and >some drives on the side with 2. > >Good luck in getting it running. > >Richard Schauer >rws@enteract.com "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 17 13:33:44 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Trying to find correct 8" disk drive Message-ID: Can someone tell me the specs on this 8" drive? Magnetic Peripherals Inc. (a subsidiary of Control Data Corp., CDC) Equipment Identification Number: BR8A5R Part Number: 75744087 Series Code: 09 Ideally, I need to know what its equivalents are. I'm sure it's a pretty standard DSDD 8" drive but I need to know for sure before I go off on a wild goose chase. Thanks!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Tue Jul 17 10:27:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010716223211.03032590@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <198.598T2950T9876871optimus@canit.se> Geoff Reed skrev: >didn't motorola make a clock doubled version of the 040??? All '040s are clock doubled, Motorola just didn't tend to boast about it like Intel did. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jul 17 14:05:33 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010716223211.03032590@mail.zipcon.net> References: Message-ID: >didn't motorola make a clock doubled version of the 040??? That is what is causing a bit of confusion, yes the 68040 is internally clock doubled, and some advertising used the bus speed and some used the clock doubled speed. Quadra 650 has 33 mhz bus and 66 mhz processor. Quadra 840AV has 40 mhz bus and 80 mhz processor, and its the fastest 68040 mac. From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jul 17 15:23:06 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066058@exc-reo1> > Kevin Murrell wrote: > >Parcelforce using airmail from the UK to the US is very quick - nearly >always less than one week. The cheaper alternative has taken over 7 weeks >the last two times I have used it. >1.0Kg Datapost 32.85 Standard 15.60 Economy 13.20 >8.0Kg 69.10 55.75 38.15 >Economy up to 20 days UK to US (I suspect a lot longer!) Given that the estimate is 15lbs, it might come in under 8kg. A six week slow boat saves 30UKP (about 45USD). I was willing to wait when my manual was shipped .... and it did indeed take the whole of the estimated six weeks! I suppose it depends how desperate you are to get the manuals and disks! Antonio From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 15:30:07 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <1028.598T2050T2065195optimus@canit.se> References: <1028.598T2050T2065195optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > > Ok, after about 4 years, I now have another Amiga 3000. >>Cool! The only thing is, after I've popped a set of 3.1 ROMs into >>it, gotten new from Sotware Hut, it's having SCSI problems. It's >>giving data errors from the internal drive. I vaguely remember >>having the same problem with my other 3000 but do not remember the >>fix. Other than the ROMs, nothing else was changed. I plan on >>putting the 2.0 ROMs back in just to recheck everything. Anyone? > >First of all, is it terminated? We had a really serious drive crash last week >since I had removed some devices on the SCSI chain and the termination along >with it. The problem was termination. I opened it up again today and sure enough, the previous owner had removed the terminating resistor packs from the mainboard. It worked fine like this under the 2.X ROMs but once the 3.1 ROMs went in it began having problems. Once I hooked up an external hard disk, properly terminated of course, I was able to get the machine stable enough to back up the contents and reformat the internal drive. I then booted from a Workbench disk and restored everything back to the internal drive. Now, even with the external drive removed and a DB25 terminator (from a HP Scanjet IIc) in place, the problems seem to have gone away. As I previously found out with my last A3000, it was important to back up and reformat the drive once it began having all the errors as they didn't go away until then even after fixing their cause. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 17 15:31:30 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So is my Quadra 800 66 MHz or 80 MHz? Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >didn't motorola make a clock doubled version of the 040??? > > That is what is causing a bit of confusion, yes the 68040 is internally > clock doubled, and some advertising used the bus speed and some used the > clock doubled speed. > > Quadra 650 has 33 mhz bus and 66 mhz processor. > Quadra 840AV has 40 mhz bus and 80 mhz processor, and its the fastest 68040 > mac. > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 15:55:12 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh Quadra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >So is my Quadra 800 66 MHz or 80 MHz? According to Apple's online specs at: http://support.info.apple.com/info.apple.com/applespec/applespec.taf?RID=39 the Quadra 800 runs the '040 at 33mhz, the same as the 32bit data path. The 33mhz '040s that I've had, one in the LC575 mainboard in my Color Classic, were both marked as 33mhz parts. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optiplex at larose.com Tue Jul 17 15:54:41 2001 From: optiplex at larose.com (opti plex) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: vintage sdk-85 microcomputer trainer for sale Message-ID: <20010717205441.12811.qmail@purina.chek.com> Hi, I have a sdk-85 trainer for sale at ebay. Please check it:(item number#1255923691) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1255923691 thanks, optiplex@larose.com Ya Who?? Be Some Body Free Web Based Email at LAROSE.COM From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 17 12:28:31 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: MountainGate RDR In-Reply-To: "Rob Lion" "MountainGate RDR" (Jul 16, 23:54) References: Message-ID: <10107171828.ZM9695@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 16, 23:54, Rob Lion wrote: > I recently acquired a MountainGate RDR storage system > controller cards (I think, they are entirely unlabeled) -- the most > prominent/relevant chips are 2x Western Digital WD33C93 and a TI TMS320C25. The WD33C93 is a SCSI controller, and the TMS320 family are DSPs (often used as fast RISC processors). More than that, I don't know, I'm afraid. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From michael.grigoni at cybertheque.org Tue Jul 17 16:28:18 2001 From: michael.grigoni at cybertheque.org (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ? References: Message-ID: <3B54ADF2.CA22B351@cybertheque.org> Thanks to those who replied; finding foreign postal information on the 'net is not easy. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 17 16:33:44 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jul 17, 2001 04:30:07 PM Message-ID: <200107172133.f6HLXj021222@shell1.aracnet.com> > The problem was termination. I opened it up again today and > sure enough, the previous owner had removed the terminating resistor > packs from the mainboard. It worked fine like this under the 2.X > ROMs but once the 3.1 ROMs went in it began having problems. Once I Cool! How about letting us know what you think of Amiga OS 3.9 once you get it loaded! I'm especially interested in the networking side of it. I don't suppose you've got a graphics card or network card in the system? Hmmm, I've now got some room under my main computer desk, so I could potentially fit the A3000 I've got stuffed into a Tower case under there, or de-tower it and set it up. I'd like to get it back up and running, but the question always seems to be, what am I going to do with it. Zane From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 16:47:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors References: ; from jweder@telusplanet.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 09:33:54PM -0600 <200107101922.OAA36667@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <002601c10f0a$2e6efdc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If anybody's interested in acquiring one of these (Apple-][e) with a dual FDD (external dual box) and Apple Monitor (color?) I have one out in the car. I'll wait to see if anybody wants the thing before adding it to the parts heap. I want $20 (the computer was $9.95, the drives were $5.95, and the monitor cost $3.95) plus the shipping cost, and I'm guessing when I say it probably works. It's moderately clean-looking. BTW, I left a Quadra 650(?) costing $6.95 sitting there on account of this, not that I wanted it, but it might have had useable parts. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 3:31 PM Subject: Apple II for into to microprocessors > >Speaking of this, anybody recommend a "learn about microprocessors"-type > >kit? Too bad Heathkit and Radio Shack dont sell such things anymore.. 8-( > > Try an Apple IIe. Its simple enough you can look at the motherboard and see > each major part, how its connected, etc. Get a decent intro assembly > language on the Apple II book, and start having fun. > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 15:28:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: from "gwynp@artware.qc.ca" at Jul 17, 1 02:00:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1975 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/085f9cfb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 16:40:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 In-Reply-To: <3B546314.8C78FAE4@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Jul 17, 1 11:08:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1657 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/f9ff8a56/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 15:29:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: <20010716233938.A16987@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Jul 16, 1 11:39:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 629 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/7c52e820/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 16:14:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at Jul 17, 1 08:04:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1832 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/0cb51341/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 16:45:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <003201c10ee0$64b91980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 17, 1 10:49:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1568 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/20fe0c6d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 16:35:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <005201c10ecf$fc284040$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 17, 1 08:50:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/42b096af/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 13:14:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: BBC Micro (was: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <10107170111.ZM9123@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 17, 1 00:11:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2855 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/0b89855d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 13:17:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <10107170117.ZM9127@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 17, 1 00:17:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1321 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/4f455e9c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 13:22:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <1369.598T600T1064085optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 17, 1 01:46:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1296 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/58c78707/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 13:23:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 16, 1 05:54:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 250 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010717/f8d042bf/attachment.ksh From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Tue Jul 17 17:07:52 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 References: <3B546314.8C78FAE4@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3B54B738.367DB8E3@tinyworld.co.uk> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Again the terminal is DEC VT420 > the blown-up capacitor is C621. My VT420 is still open after recently looking up values for someone else with blown caps! C621 is marked "1.0J 250V" > - That C621 is in close proximity to C617, another sizeable > capacitor. However there are no marks left on that one after > cleaning the explosion site :-) C617 is marked ".01J 1500V" From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jul 17 13:26:37 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Quadra 650 for $6.95 at "junkyard" attn: Richard Erlacher Message-ID: <20010717222209.ZFQK3894.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: jpero@sympatico.ca > To: "Richard Erlacher" > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:13:28 +0000 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Subject: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors > Priority: normal > In-reply-to: <002601c10f0a$2e6efdc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) > > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors > > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:47:41 -0600 > > Organization: Erlacher Associates > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > BTW, I left a Quadra 650(?) costing $6.95 sitting there on account of this, not > that I wanted it, but it might have had useable parts. Dick, 7 dollars is worth getting that Mac for parts, 7 dollars plus shipping on the parts stripped from that Mac is what I can use. Quadra use full 68040, this 650 is blazing 33MHz. Cheers, Wizard PS: your email address bounced so this email is in public for anyone to see and I wish to contact you on this Quadra 650. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 17:37:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Quadra 650 for $6.95 at "junkyard" attn: Richard Erlacher References: <20010717222209.ZFQK3894.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <002101c10f11$1df460a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I didn't buy it, since I've no interest in MAC's. I would have taken it, but the $20 or so that I spent ran me short on cash, and I'm not a credit-card sort of guy (I don't take them with me when I go thrift-shopping). I left a fully functional 20" monitor sitting there too. Yesterday, I saw a PowerPC-based MAC, maybe two of them, sitting in a corner. I've been looking for a lawnmower with parts compatible with my own. The grass is growing ... I got two emails from you with this same text, so the email address apparently works. Aside from that, I wouldn't get this mailing list either if this address were somehow fouled up. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 12:26 PM Subject: Quadra 650 for $6.95 at "junkyard" attn: Richard Erlacher > > > From: jpero@sympatico.ca > > To: "Richard Erlacher" > > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:13:28 +0000 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Subject: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors > > Priority: normal > > In-reply-to: <002601c10f0a$2e6efdc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> > > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) > > > > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Apple II for into to microprocessors > > > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:47:41 -0600 > > > Organization: Erlacher Associates > > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > BTW, I left a Quadra 650(?) costing $6.95 sitting there on account of this, not > > that I wanted it, but it might have had useable parts. > > Dick, > > 7 dollars is worth getting that Mac for parts, 7 dollars plus > shipping on the parts stripped from that Mac is what I can use. > > Quadra use full 68040, this 650 is blazing 33MHz. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > PS: your email address bounced so this email is in public for anyone > to see and I wish to contact you on this Quadra 650. > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 17:45:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: Message-ID: <002d01c10f12$35a33180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:45 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > > > > The light pen on the CDC system had a button that had to be pressed when one > > wanted its attention. Likewise, the MOT system that I mentioned earlier had a > > button also. Consequently, I'd conclude that one normally pressed the button > > when it was in contact with the face of the tube and released it when it was > > still there, so ambient light was not so big an issue. With a switch, of > > course, the response time issues you mentioned before became very real, since > > switch bounce can be quite long, and, more than one scan line might go by while > > the switch is debounced. > > The contact bounce time is irrelevant. > Yeah ... I thought about that, and the only real purpose the button would serve, aside from gating the lightpen input, perhaps in the manner you suggest, is to tell the system to flash the screen for one frame so it can find the pen. > > When you press the switch you tell the system to start looking for light > pen events. This might just be a signal to the software to accept > interrupts from the video system that indicate that the light pen has > detected something. The light pen connects to the video hardware as > usual, and latches the video address so that the software can read it. > If it does work that way, then ambient light becomes a factor, doesn't it? I was thinking the button would gate the lightpen input. Apparently that's not necessary. > > The video hardware can latch that address every time the light pen > outputs a signal, no matter what the switch is doing. OK, it may not mean > anything, particularly if the light pen is not pointing at the screen, > but then the software will only read out that latch when the switch is > pressed, so it doesn't matter. > seems reasonable ... > > On most micros that I am familiar with, the light pen switch signal > doesn't go anywhere near the video circuitry (6845, etc). It goes to a > general input port. The software reads that port and starts checking the > 6845's registers if the switch is pressed. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 17:54:00 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: Message-ID: <003501c10f13$60897160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see questions below, plz Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:35 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > > > > I've only handled one system that had a light pen on a raster display. My > > experience with a lightpen is actually limited to the vector displays on CDC > > systems back in the early-mid '60's. They were quite precise in their placement > > on the rather large screeen, and didn't make first-approximations and let you > > correct as you went as one might do on a raster display. Since putting a pixel > > under the light pen was tantamount to making the entire screen white and then > > erasing/redrawing it, which took quite a while, and that's not what they did, > > what do you suppose they did on those storage tubes? > > Were they definitely storage CRTs? Not all vector displays were (both DEC > and HP made storage displays using normal CRTs in the early 70's...). I > seem to rememebr, though, that the Tektronix storage terminals could > display a flashing cursor. I am not sure how it worked, but I guess there > was some way to display an object without having it stored. Maybe the > light pen cursor on the CDC system was displayed that way. > > > > Typically, when you put the pen on the screen, the machine moves a block > > > or crosshairs about until it finds the light pen (sometimes it just lights > > > up the whole screen). Once it knows where the lightpen is, it displays a > > > 'cursor' at that location. The important thing about the cursor is that > > > it's larger than the resolution of the light pen (say a 3*3 array of > > > lightpen 'pixels). Then, when the user moved the lightpen, the machine > > > detects that the lightpen is no longer over the centre block of the > > > cursor, and moves the cursor so that it is. The cursor thus follows the > > > lightpen around the screen, that always providing something for the > > > lightpen to detect. > > > > > What do you suppose they did to keep the cursor centered? Did the integrate the > > waveform from the light pen? How would they handle the vertical centering? Do > > No, it was genrally a lot simpler than that. > > The 'cursor' might have been a 3*3 array of blocks, which I will number : > > 1 2 3 > 4 5 6 > 7 8 9 > Viewed from the 6845, is the block 1 scan line high? The minimal width is probably 8 bits, or whatever else the character width is. How do you suppose they got the resolution down to the individual pixels? IIRC, the MOT raster system I mentioned previously had the horizontal lines modulated with the dot clock, so horizontal lines were dotted and not any brighter than the vertical ones. That impressed me more than the function of the light pen, but it was interesting to see the precision with which the light pen worked. > > OK, the cursor is displayed so that the light pen detects block 5. If the > pen is moved to the left, the light pen pulse will occur as block 4 is > being displayed. Software on the host computer realises this and moves > the entire cursor left, so that the block being detected is number 5 > again. Similarly, if you move the light pen down, the software realises > that the position detected by the light pen corresponds to block 8, and > moves the cursor down to compensate. > > You could do this in hardware, I guess (the necessary electronics is not > exactly complicatated), but software was more usual. > > > The Motorola system on which I saw the demo of a "full" implementation of the > > light pen together with a 6845 was able to do the job all right, but I'd be > > surprised to learn they didn't have a dedicated processor just for diddling with > > Quite posslby. A single-chip microcontroller could handle this easily > (the fast stuff -- determining the coordinates of the lightpen -- is > still done in hardware, say by a 6845, all the software has to do is work > out what block in the cursor currently corresponds to that location, and > move the cursor if necessary). > Getting the horizontal location right, as you'd have to in order to do precise drawing, might be a bit more complicated, don't you think? an 8-pixel extent of uncertainty is quite a bit on a 640-pixel display. > > > From ecloud at bigfoot.com Tue Jul 17 18:11:29 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 09:29:17PM +0100 References: <20010716233938.A16987@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <20010717161129.I16987@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 09:29:17PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 07:42:15PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Most consumer-grade spike proteectors seem to use somewhat underated > > > MOVs. You can get higher energy ones from electronic component suppliers, > > > and there's no reason not to fit these. They're less likely to fail in > > > the future. > > > > What about using multiple ones in parallel? I have a lot of them that > > I think what would happen is that the one that broke down first (either > because it had a lower volatage threshold, or because it was a bit > faster) would take almost all the surge. So you'd not gain much by having > them in parallel. Yeah, that's what I thought; but I figured after the first one fries, the next one is there to take the remaining part of the surge, etc. But I guess if they fail closed-circuit, then the next one still won't absorb much energy. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 17 18:36:40 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Light Pens ..." (Jul 17, 16:54) References: <003501c10f13$60897160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10107180036.ZM9954@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 17, 16:54, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Viewed from the 6845, is the block 1 scan line high? Yes. > Getting the horizontal location right, as you'd have to in order to do precise > drawing, might be a bit more complicated, don't you think? an 8-pixel extent of > uncertainty is quite a bit on a 640-pixel display. But it's usually less than 8 bits. For example, the pen I built (which had assorted other problems as per my other responses) was mostly used on a 4-bit-per-pixel display (16 colours) or a 2bpp (4 colour) display, so the resolution was usually 2 pixels or, at worst, 4. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 17 18:29:42 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Light Pens ..." (Jul 17, 19:17) References: Message-ID: <10107180029.ZM9948@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 17, 19:17, Tony Duell wrote: > [Lightpen over dark screen] > If that's the article I am thinking of, they made a mistake and suggested > the device you needed was the plain phototransistor. The next month they > publised a correction that said you needed the phototransistor + schmitt > trigger Sweet-Spot. Yes, but the schmitt-triggered one has a different problem -- it's too slow! It's a long time ago, and the articles and my notes are buried near the bottom of a heap of other stuff, but I seem to remember that the frequency response of the schmitt device was quite low. I didn't use it in the end; I built a custom amplifier with the front end in the pen tube. > > brightness was set so that black was *just* not visible, a suitably > > Yes, but as you imply, that's not truely a dark screen :-)... > > > adjusted lightpen on a short-persistence monitor could detect dark pixels. > > It was, however, *much* easier with lit pixels. > > And the adjustments (monitor brightness, light pen sensitivity/threshold) > are _very_ touchy! Indeed. If you're not careful, the detector that can "see" the spot on a "dark" screen gets dazzled by a lit pixel, or fooled if you tilt the pen so ambient light leaks past the tip. I gave it up. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 18:32:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <002d01c10f12$35a33180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 17, 1 04:45:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 989 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/5b783677/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 18:40:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <003501c10f13$60897160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 17, 1 04:54:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2599 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/74f06a29/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 18:45:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <10107180029.ZM9948@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 17, 1 11:29:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/30b1aaea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 17 18:51:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <10107180036.ZM9954@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 17, 1 11:36:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1651 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/23e56df3/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 17 19:15:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107172133.f6HLXj021222@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200107172133.f6HLXj021222@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Cool! How about letting us know what you think of Amiga OS 3.9 once you get >it loaded! I'm especially interested in the networking side of it. I don't >suppose you've got a graphics card or network card in the system? I don't have a network card, but if all goes well a GVP Spectrum graphics card is going into it. BTW, 3.9 includes a bunch of AVI's and a few MP3's on the CD to test the various media players with, as well as an audio track. I'm not planning on upgrading any of the other custom chips unless I find I have to, such as the Buster. >Hmmm, I've now got some room under my main computer desk, so I could >potentially fit the A3000 I've got stuffed into a Tower case under there, or >de-tower it and set it up. Mine's going underneathe my NEC monitor and sharing it with the G3. This little Multisync C400 has certainly seen it's share of various computers since I bought it in '96! >I'd like to get it back up and running, but the question always seems to be, >what am I going to do with it. I'm going to use mine as a backup system as well as one to handle those times when I just feel the urge ot use an Amiga. The fact that it doesn't depend on anything MS is nice too. You could also use it as a Linux box too. It'd be cool to fix the kernel panic on mine when booting into Linux, but that's a low priority. I think I saw some of the distro files still on the hard disk when I was moving stuff around on the Amiga partition. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mranalog at home.com Tue Jul 17 19:41:29 2001 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: DATA I/O ftp files Message-ID: <3B54DB39.D86413CD@home.com> Just for everyone's information About a year ago someone mention that DATA I/O had taken down the all the files of family/pinout codes for their old prom programmers. In response to a recent request for information. I checked again and it seems that most of them are back on their web site. What I found by looking through the files: Go to http://www.dataio.com/support/ftp.htm This is DATA I/O's FTP site Select "device lists" Then select ",archive" There is a file called "wallchrt.exe". This is a self-extracting archive file. Run it in an empty directory. After it has extracted it's files, click on "WC.BAT". Wallchart is a menu driven DOS program that seems to have lists of supported devices for most of their old programmers, along some "footnotes". (w54_pgm.exe looks like it MAYBE a newer version of wallchrt.exe) Family/pinout codes can be found in files like: device lists\29_fpo.txt - 2900 device lists\,archive\s1000.txt - Series 1000 device lists\,archive\unipak.txt - Unipak device lists\,archive\series22.txt - Series 22 device lists\,archive\logicpak.txt - Logicpak etc. Also look at device lists\,archive\README device lists\,archive\README old.html device lists\,archive\README.html for some more information on these files Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ========================================= From Mzthompson at aol.com Tue Jul 17 20:35:06 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 Message-ID: Gunther Schadow wrote: > I bought a VT420 from a neighborhood garage sale ($5) that > turned out not to work. > Opened the box and powered on, the kathode in the tube didn't > seem to glow. More inspection turned out that what seems like > a ceramic capacitor was exploded or fried, all black and > crummy, impossible for me to identify its specs. Can someone > help me out with a schematics or databook or something? > the blown-up capacitor is C621. I popped the hood of a VT420 and the only markings I found on C621 was "1J250". My years of electronics leave me with out an opinion as to what the actual value is. As you know, that capacitor is located inside the confines of a heatsink. That is the heatsink on the horizontal output transistor. Without a schematic, I would guess that capacitor is associated with the horizontal output transistor or possibly is in the flyback transformer circuit. Experience has taught me that is best to check the windings on the flyback, albiet hard to do without a schematic. More times than I care to remember, I have found a bad flyback. At that point it goes out the back door, I just don't mess with them anymore like I used to. Granted there are companies out there that sell replacement flybacks, but the prices almost lead to the decision to pitch the one unit and use the money instead to buy several others and hope for better luck. Mike From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Jul 17 20:38:14 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: ZNR Varistor markings, Take 2. Message-ID: <009d01c10f2a$505d0100$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Hi all, (And Tony Duell :^) Repost of a previous msg, as for some wierd reason, I stopped getting list traffic for a couple of days. Investigations at our mail server are inconclusive, but it may be related to the fact we were using the ORBS database to aid spam control and this has been suddenly shut down. Or not. Anyway, I've missed a couple days traffic and probably some responses to this. Have a friends Decstation 5000 power supply with a violently blown fuse. (8A/250V) He is a developer of VMS Freeware (in fact the WASD web server) and has asked me to help. Culprit is 2 x ZNR 14K241U devices, which I believe are Metal Film Varistors Surge Absorbers. The numbering system seems to be obsolete as current ZNR Surge Absorbers use a quite different system, or I've guessed wrong and they are something else entirely, but I don't think so. These two gadgets are wired in series with each other, then connected across the output of the mains rectifier. 240vac in, so they are across around 300+ vdc. I could just leave them out and the supply will run, but would much rather replace them to keep the protection they offer. Their appear to be no other faults and the history of the incident is consistent with a switch on surge after an extended holiday (3 weeks) following daily useage of the machine, so it's possible the reservoir caps may be just a little leaky or the varistor was just getting tired. Anyone make sense of the device id so I can figure out what rating to replace them with. Device looks rather like a round ceramic capacitor, but gloss black in colour, marked with white lettering A Logo consisting of a small square box in top left with a capital M inside and ZNR in caps next to it then under it is 14K241U (or the 1's could be ell or i, hard to say). underneath at bottom left is an reversed italic capital R with a reversed italic capital L joined to the back main bar of the R. To the right of this is a small letter s raised above the baseline with the number 20 after it. Any help appreciated. Cheers Geoff in Oz From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 17 20:58:00 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jul 17, 2001 08:15:58 PM Message-ID: <200107180158.f6I1w0O02414@shell1.aracnet.com> > I don't have a network card, but if all goes well a GVP > Spectrum graphics card is going into it. BTW, 3.9 includes a bunch > of AVI's and a few MP3's on the CD to test the various media players > with, as well as an audio track. I'm not planning on upgrading any > of the other custom chips unless I find I have to, such as the Buster. There are MP3 players for 68k Amiga's?!?! That's either rather gutsy, or pathetic, I'm not sure which. What do they do, decode them to another format and then play them? > Mine's going underneathe my NEC monitor and sharing it with > the G3. This little Multisync C400 has certainly seen it's share of > various computers since I bought it in '96! The monitors I've got would probably crush a A3000! I might be able to put it in the wooden rack next to the desk, but the PDP-8/m sits where it would need to go, and I'm going to need to find more room in the rack for a PDP-8/e and Papertape reader/punch. OTOH, I might be able to stuff it under the A2002 Monitor I've got hooked up to a dead VCR (I use the combo for a TV in the computer room. > I'm going to use mine as a backup system as well as one to > handle those times when I just feel the urge ot use an Amiga. The > fact that it doesn't depend on anything MS is nice too. You could > also use it as a Linux box too. It'd be cool to fix the kernel panic > on mine when booting into Linux, but that's a low priority. I think > I saw some of the distro files still on the hard disk when I was > moving stuff around on the Amiga partition. Don't need a backup system, and I've no desire to run Linux on anything but a fast x86 box. So I'm still trying to come up with a use for it. That was one of the reasons I bought it a Catweasel, however, the board didn't function as advertised thanks to the lack of software for it. Of course the Catweasel board is also why it's sitting in a monster ALR Server Tower at the moment! Zane From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 21:02:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: <003501c10f13$60897160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <10107180036.ZM9954@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <001901c10f2d$be84be40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see inline comments below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > On Jul 17, 16:54, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Viewed from the 6845, is the block 1 scan line high? > > Yes. > > > Getting the horizontal location right, as you'd have to in order to do > precise > > drawing, might be a bit more complicated, don't you think? an 8-pixel > extent of > > uncertainty is quite a bit on a 640-pixel display. > > But it's usually less than 8 bits. For example, the pen I built (which had > assorted other problems as per my other responses) was mostly used on a > 4-bit-per-pixel display (16 colours) or a 2bpp (4 colour) display, so the > resolution was usually 2 pixels or, at worst, 4. > If you have multiple colors, you will have to have multiple shift registers, and a character, normally based on the shift-register width used with characters, is typically 8 bits. That means 8 bits per color. I suppose it's possible to use fewer dots per character, but that means slowing down the pixel rate, since the 6845 can count only so fast. I think 500 nS per character, implying 8 bit character width, in each color, is the max, though I'm running on very much aged memory. The high-speed timing logic, external to the 6845 is what resolves the individual pixels to a character block. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 21:09:21 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: Message-ID: <002501c10f2e$a8dc32c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What's got me wondering here is that the 6845 has a minimal resolution of one character width, typically 8 bits. It has an upper limit on count rate, and between that and the dot clock frequency, you get an upper limit on the number of pixels per line for every frequency of character clock. Now, I haven't looked at the 6845 spec for a couple of decades, (It was new then.) but IIRC, the minimal resolution of the value in the light pen register is the character clock, which is the dot clock DIV pixels-per-character. You can, of course, draw whatever you want in the video refresh RAM, but I'm not clear on how this process works in conjunction with the function of the 6845. Could you tie those two together, plz? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > > > > What do you suppose they did to keep the cursor centered? Did the integrate > > the > > > > waveform from the light pen? How would they handle the vertical centering? > > Do > > > > > > No, it was genrally a lot simpler than that. > > > > > > The 'cursor' might have been a 3*3 array of blocks, which I will number : > > > > > > 1 2 3 > > > 4 5 6 > > > 7 8 9 > > > > > Viewed from the 6845, is the block 1 scan line high? The minimal width is > > The block is a 3 by 3 array of the size of object that can be detected by > the light pen. If the light pen has a resolution of one 'character cell' > -- say 8 pixels square -- then the cursor is 24 pixels square. If the > lightpen can resolve individual pixels (and we discussed yesterday > latching the bit counter to be able to do this) then the cursor is 3 > pixels square. And so on. > > Remember that although the cursor is a 3 * 3 array of blocks/pixels, the > hardware/software moves it about 1 block/pixel at a time, keeping the > block/pixel numbered 5 under the end of the pen. So the resolution of the > pen is still 1 block/pixel -- you don't lose a factor of 3 in the > resolution or anything like that. > > > probably 8 bits, or whatever else the character width is. How do you suppose > > they got the resolution down to the individual pixels? IIRC, the MOT raster > > I think the main problem is making a light pen that will detect > individual pixels reliably (this is a matter of both optics and > electronics). It's not hard to latch the bit counter as well as the video > memory address so as to be able to have a bit address available to the > software. > > > > Quite posslby. A single-chip microcontroller could handle this easily > > > (the fast stuff -- determining the coordinates of the lightpen -- is > > > still done in hardware, say by a 6845, all the software has to do is work > > > out what block in the cursor currently corresponds to that location, and > > > move the cursor if necessary). > > > > > Getting the horizontal location right, as you'd have to in order to do precise > > drawing, might be a bit more complicated, don't you think? an 8-pixel extent of > > I'd want to use hardware for that. The 6845 to get the byte address and a > 3 bit counter + latch to get the bit address in that byte. Apart from > that, it's no harder to give a pixel address than the address of 8 > adjacent pixels. > > The problem is the lightpen itself. It would have to focus a single pixel > onto the phototransistor. And it would have to have a sufficiently fast > amplifier to give a nice sharp pulse from a single pixel. And of course > the CRT would have to have a short persistance. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 17 21:22:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: Message-ID: <002d01c10f30$728a5600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see comments inline, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > > > > > Getting the horizontal location right, as you'd have to in order to do > > precise > > > drawing, might be a bit more complicated, don't you think? An 8-pixel > > extent of > > > uncertainty is quite a bit on a 640-pixel display. > > > > But it's usually less than 8 bits. For example, the pen I built (which had > > assorted other problems as per my other responses) was mostly used on a > > 4-bit-per-pixel display (16 colours) or a 2bpp (4 colour) display, so the > > resolution was usually 2 pixels or, at worst, 4. > Ordinarily, displays that support both text and graphics, as was the practice back when the 6845 was cooked up, normally means a two-pathed pipeline, one with an extra stage of delay and bypassing the character generator, and the other without the delay stage, but using that interval for the character-generation to do its work. Since the character generator normally took bytes line count and translated them into bytes to be loaded into a shift register clocked at the pixel rate, the same shift register, hence shift register width and load rate, was used. This was not a requirement, but since the 6845 is driven by the character clock rather than the pixel clock, it's less convenient to switch divisors in order to reduce the resolution and change the sync/blanking timing. Normally, if one had three colors, one had three bit planes and three shift registers. It seems to me that the Apple did things that way too, by the way. The color video memory was in three banks so that it could be concurrently accessed into the three colors and subsequently combined. I've not made a study of the Apple low-level mechanics, but that certainly seems representative of how a number of systems did things. > > Alternatively, in any video display system the following signals exist > somewhere (maybe only inside an ASIC, but that's not my problem :-)) : > > A clock signal at the pixel frequency > > A signal which loads another word from video memory into the video output > circuitry. In general this will occur every n pixel clock pulses, where n > is the number of pixels in a memory word. > that's what MOT calls the character clock. > > The light pen strobe. > > What you do is count the pixel clocks with a counter that is reset by the > load-next-word signal. You have to be a little careful with synchronising > the latter signal, but it's not that difficult. > There are some standard counters that do this remarkably well. An 'LS590 will register this count and hold it in a tristate register until it's needed, yet update it whenever it's told to do so. > > Then latch the value of that counter when you get a light pen strobe. The > software reads both the registers in the 6845 (giving the address of the > word in video memory) and the latched value of this count, giving the > pixel position within the word. > > Of course in many cases the video output circuitry is effectively a > pipeline, clocked by the pixelclock, and it takes several clock cycles to > move a pixel from memory to the screen. But that's a constant number of > clock cycles and so can be corrected for easily in software. > If the refresh memory is to support text and graphics, the pipeline must be two-forked. > > -tony > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jul 17 21:29:02 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: RS/6000 AIX boot floppy Message-ID: <15188.62574.294963.46535@phaduka.neurotica.com> Anybody here have an AIX3 for RS/6000 boot floppy that they could send me an image of? Thanks, -Dave McGuire From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Tue Jul 17 21:31:42 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: PDF file of Canon CAT instructions.... In-Reply-To: <200107172208.RAA60105@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:05:31 -0400 > From: "Curt Vendel" > Subject: PDF file of Canon CAT instructions.... > > I know I'm a bit slow, but here is the link to the Adobe PDF file > of the handwritten instructions for using the Canon CAT, enjoy. > > http://www.atari-history.com/archives/pdf/misc/canon_cat.pdf Handwritten instructions for a word processor. Hmmm... Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA From jrice at texoma.net Tue Jul 17 22:12:13 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy Message-ID: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> Thanks to eBay and a couple of list members, I now have my Indy up and running and on the 'net using my ISDN router as the gateway. I can also ping my office network through the other router. I'm currently running IRIX 6.5. It has a R4400SC 150mhz cpu, 192mb ram, a 24bit graphics card, Granite kb, mouse and 20" Trinitron monitor, a 2gb hard drive and an Indycam. I'm building an external SCSI box to house a DAT drive, the CD-ROM, a CD-R drive and a 2gb option drive. Now I need to find a Presenter, a Cosmo board, a 10/100 GIO ethernet card, the XZ graphics board and floptical drive to have a fairly complete system. It looks good sitting on my desk next to the NeXT TC slab. Now for my next project, to get the Sparc Station 5's I bought the other day up and running! From Glenatacme at aol.com Tue Jul 17 22:35:32 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: OT: Virii Message-ID: <118.1ce28aa.28865e04@aol.com> OT, yes (maybe some virii are >10 years old??) but related to programming in general. Plus, if no one on this list knows the answer, then there probably *isn't* an answer ;>) I received a virus in an e-mail attachment a few minutes ago. The sender is a wholesale supplier I'm acquainted with. NAV spotted the "W32.Magistr.corrupt" virus, could not repair the infected item, and asked for permission to delete the item, which I granted. I looked this virus up in the list of 50K+ virii that NAV currently claims to cover. No information was available, except that this virus is rare, it infects .exe files, and it is zero bytes in length. Now, I've cranked out a couple of boatloads of code over the last 19 years, and the smallest useful program I ever wrote was 3 bytes in length. It's easy enough to create a zero byte file, but as far as I can tell such a file can't *do* anything. How can I write a zero-byte program? How does NAV identify this virus if it's zero bytes in length? What real threat to my PC is an e-mail-propagated virus of length zero? WTF??? TIA, Glen 0/0 From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 17 22:47:57 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:49 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: from "James L. Rice" at Jul 17, 2001 10:12:13 PM Message-ID: <200107180347.f6I3lvT06130@shell1.aracnet.com> > Thanks to eBay and a couple of list members, I now have my Indy up and > running and on the 'net using my ISDN router as the gateway. I can also > ping my office network through the other router. I'm currently running > IRIX 6.5. It has a R4400SC 150mhz cpu, 192mb ram, a 24bit graphics > card, Granite kb, mouse and 20" Trinitron monitor, a 2gb hard drive and > an Indycam. I'm building an external SCSI box to house a DAT drive, the > CD-ROM, a CD-R drive and a 2gb option drive. Now I need to find a > Presenter, a Cosmo board, a 10/100 GIO ethernet card, the XZ graphics > board and floptical drive to have a fairly complete system. It looks > good sitting on my desk next to the NeXT TC slab. I'm more than a little green with envy! > Now for my next project, to get the Sparc Station 5's I bought the other > day up and running! Um, I hope you got RAM with those systems. If not unless they're 5/110's or 5/170's you're probably better off sticking them on eBay and putting the money towards a Sparc 10 or 20. Simply put Sparc 5 RAM costs and arm and a leg unless you get lucky! Only RAM I've found that's worse is AlphaStation 500/333 RAM (I've got both a Sparc 5/70, and a AS500/333). Zane From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jul 17 22:48:58 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: [win2x@hotmail.com: Vax 11/780 - Sun 3/470 w/ Mass storage] In-Reply-To: <200107170113.f6H1DEx08220@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010717224538.M29420-100000@localhost> > > A 11/780 and a Sun 3/470 up for grabs near Dallas. > Ah, if I only had the room and the power outlet. If only I hadn't already ran out of money and space! Dallas -- so close (<3 hours), but so far away ($$$). Is there any chance that this system will still be available a year from now? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jul 17 23:23:18 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <200107120028.f6C0SPH20084@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010717232205.N29420-100000@localhost> On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > In some ways he should be paying you to remove the RA81's! They're *that* common? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jul 17 23:29:41 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: new scans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010717232814.A29420-100000@localhost> On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Gooijen H wrote: > I finally found some time to continue scanning doc. Good job! Every scanned doc makes the world a better place to live in. > Anyway, is there interest in these high quality (I think) > scans? Oh yeah! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jul 17 23:32:44 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010717233048.Q29420-100000@localhost> On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Feldman, Robert wrote: > Or you can sign up for DSL service, wait 5 months to get the line > brought into your house, during which time you have to be home for > half a dozen service calls, then the Telco will run the test and tell > you that you are too far away. That was my experience with Telocity > and Ameritech in Chicago. :( Jeez! My cable modem "installation" took about 10 minutes. I count that as one of my life's best experiences. I nearly gave the service guy a hug. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jul 18 00:17:25 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: PDF file of Canon CAT instructions.... In-Reply-To: from "Paul R. Santa-Maria" at "Jul 17, 1 10:31:42 pm" Message-ID: <200107180517.WAA07758@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I know I'm a bit slow, but here is the link to the Adobe PDF file > > of the handwritten instructions for using the Canon CAT, enjoy. > > > > http://www.atari-history.com/archives/pdf/misc/canon_cat.pdf > > Handwritten instructions for a word processor. Hmmm... I like it :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Either he's dead, or my watch has stopped. -- Groucho Marx ----------------- From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jul 18 00:17:24 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010717235621.M29420-100000@localhost> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Paul Thompson wrote: > Do you typically unplug your machines during boomers, or leave them > plugged in? None of my classic machines are currently plugged in, but I highly suspect that their connections with the outside world will be arranged in a way similar to that used on my PCs. The PCs, their monitors, and all network hardware plug somewhere into a set of 3 UPS units. That means that I need only to unplug 3 plugs to electrically separate the entire mess from the world. Also, even though I believe it turns to fiber not too far away from my house, I unplug the cable modem's coax from the wall just to be sure. At that point, the room is waaaay to quiet! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 17 23:30:03 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Need helpers for VCF East Message-ID: Does anyone know where I might find three teenagers in the Marlborough, Massachusetts area wanting to make some money by working various roles at the VCF? If so, please reply to ASAP. I will discuss the details with you and you can pass them along to any potential slave^H^H^H^H^H Event Services Engineer ;) Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jul 18 00:42:45 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! Message-ID: <20010718001542.L29420-100000@localhost> Well, I've done it again. This time, I went all ~1400 miles to San Diego. I've been saving my money for this one, and it paid off nicely. I picked up: * PDP-11/20 -- According to the owner, this one worked last time it was booted (no idea when that was), and I should expect the monitor to still be loaded in the core. * PDP-11/20 -- Not known to be in working condition. Missing a few switches up front and maybe a few boards inside. Basicaly, a spares machine. The faceplate is the older one that just says "PDP11" instead of "PDP11/20", and I'll probably transplant it to the working machine for that reason. * PDP-11/05 chassis -- In great condition, but with no boards. Anybody have a set up for trade? * TU56 -- Looks to be in great condition. * TC11 -- Looks to be in great condition. * DECtapes -- About 100 of them. I think there's an operating system and a fortran compiler in there somewhere. * A few printsets. I'd like to find a couple of RK05 drives, maybe a PCxx paper tape reader/punch, and their controllers to round out this system. Anybody have any of these up for trade? Considering that all this was free to a good home and that it fit in the back of the Suburban I borrowed from my parents, this has turned out to the be least expensive haul this summer. All in all, I'd say that this summer has been very successful. -- Jeffrey S. 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In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Light Pens ..." (Jul 18, 0:45) References: Message-ID: <10107180739.ZM10175@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 0:45, Tony Duell wrote: > > Yes, but the schmitt-triggered one has a different problem -- it's too > > slow! It's a long time ago, and the articles and my notes are buried near > > Right... It's generally recomend for BBC lightpens (See, for example, > the Advanced User Guide page 369). Are you saying none of these designs > work properly? Well, mine ended up having more in it than the one on p.369 (which has just a Sweet Spot phototransistor mounted in the barrel) - it had a transistor and bias resistor in there too, along with a CMOS chip to make a touch-sensitive switch. I can't remember what the Sweet Spot part number in the AUG is (schmitt or plain) so I can't tell you if that's the one I used. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 18 01:43:02 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Light Pens ..." (Jul 18, 0:45) References: Message-ID: <10107180743.ZM10179@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 0:45, Tony Duell wrote: > > Yes, but the schmitt-triggered one has a different problem -- it's too > > slow! It's a long time ago, and the articles and my notes are buried near > > Right... It's generally recomend for BBC lightpens (See, for example, > the Advanced User Guide page 369). Are you saying none of these designs > work properly? Well, mine ended up having more in it than the one on p.369 (which has just a Sweet Spot phototransistor mounted in the barrel) - it had a transistor and bias resistor in there too, along with a CMOS chip to make a touch-sensitive switch. I can't remember what the Sweet Spot part number in the AUG is (schmitt or plain) so I can't tell you if that's the one I used. I bought both types, and one other photodiode (or phototransistor?) from the RS cat. I see that page also refers to a fudge factor to be subtracted from the register contents -- I remember having to do that too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jul 18 01:47:07 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066059@exc-reo1> Jeffrey S. Sharp WROTE: > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > In some ways he should be paying you to remove the RA81's! > > They're *that* common? Ticking time bomb. Someone decided to use a(n allegedly) cheaper glue even though the spec more or less said "do not substitute". The result was that a fair number of RA81s failed early in service. They have a bad reputation. Antonio From fernande at internet1.net Wed Jul 18 02:02:23 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! References: <20010718001542.L29420-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <3B55347F.97BCEC66@internet1.net> Wow, thats a long way! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > Well, I've done it again. > > This time, I went all ~1400 miles to San Diego. I've been saving my money > for this one, and it paid off nicely. I picked up: From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jul 18 02:49:40 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: <200107180347.f6I3lvT06130@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010718004920.02bf8580@mail.zipcon.net> if you need sparc 5 ram I may ahve some left (I'd have to dig around a bit to look) At 08:47 PM 7/17/01 -0700, you wrote: > > Thanks to eBay and a couple of list members, I now have my Indy up and > > running and on the 'net using my ISDN router as the gateway. I can also > > ping my office network through the other router. I'm currently running > > IRIX 6.5. It has a R4400SC 150mhz cpu, 192mb ram, a 24bit graphics > > card, Granite kb, mouse and 20" Trinitron monitor, a 2gb hard drive and > > an Indycam. I'm building an external SCSI box to house a DAT drive, the > > CD-ROM, a CD-R drive and a 2gb option drive. Now I need to find a > > Presenter, a Cosmo board, a 10/100 GIO ethernet card, the XZ graphics > > board and floptical drive to have a fairly complete system. It looks > > good sitting on my desk next to the NeXT TC slab. > >I'm more than a little green with envy! > > > Now for my next project, to get the Sparc Station 5's I bought the other > > day up and running! > >Um, I hope you got RAM with those systems. If not unless they're 5/110's or >5/170's you're probably better off sticking them on eBay and putting the >money towards a Sparc 10 or 20. Simply put Sparc 5 RAM costs and arm and a >leg unless you get lucky! Only RAM I've found that's worse is >AlphaStation 500/333 RAM (I've got both a Sparc 5/70, and a AS500/333). > > Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 18 02:48:33 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: UCI microscope In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010717080949.02d4ee50@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: An electron microscope, or sad to say all the bits for one, just showed up at the UC Irvine (calif) salvage yard. What a mess. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 18 02:53:16 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer Channel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I found an old little box today, looks like some sort of remote I/O or controller. Its about the size of an external floppy drive and says on the front something like Perkin Elmer Channel. Has a serial port on the back and some kind of connector for wires or something. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 18 02:39:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <000001c10edb$a2fe8360$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >That rendered the use of a dedicated develpment system with in-circuit >emulator >unnecessary, though not totally without potential merit. I bought something called a Romulator (something like that, http://www.romrocket.com/) that I could dump a file to over a serial link, and then it behaved in circuit exactly like an eprom. That with little bits of test software did just about everything I needed, along with a 4 trace scope to look at timing etc. What exactly is it that a microprocessor "system" like the Apple II or Aim65 can't do? (a paragraph not a page please) From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 18 04:15:42 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: UCI microscope In-Reply-To: UCI microscope (Mike Ford) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010717080949.02d4ee50@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <15189.21438.14513.364263@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 18, Mike Ford wrote: > An electron microscope, or sad to say all the bits for one, just showed up > at the UC Irvine (calif) salvage yard. What a mess. Any vacuum pumps intact? -Dave McGuire From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 18 04:39:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: UCI microscope In-Reply-To: <15189.21438.14513.364263@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: UCI microscope (Mike Ford) <5.0.2.1.0.20010717080949.02d4ee50@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: >On July 18, Mike Ford wrote: >> An electron microscope, or sad to say all the bits for one, just showed up >> at the UC Irvine (calif) salvage yard. What a mess. > > Any vacuum pumps intact? There are a few things; Main thing, cresent shaped desk sized with what looks like a speaker (woofer) facing up in the middle with funky green paint inside. status lots missing, various cables pilled on it. Large other bit, this looks like it went under something and has a base of about 2.5x4 feet, with lots of odd looking metal bits (cooling or condenser looking things). ie, educate me and I will look Thursday. From AlistairMacDonald at economist.com Wed Jul 18 04:38:59 2001 From: AlistairMacDonald at economist.com (Alistair MacDonald) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: European Postal Information (was Re: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ?) Message-ID: === michael.grigoni@cybertheque.org 17/07/2001 22:28:18 === >Thanks to those who replied; finding foreign postal information >on the 'net is not easy. >From the UK (ParcelForce): http://afis.postoffice.co.uk/Parcelforce/Internet/CustServGuide/calculator.asp >From Europe (General Parcel - national carriers cooperative): http://www.generalparcel.com/moving/atyour.html (However, you might need to be able to read the local language) From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 04:40:46 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107180158.f6I1w0O02414@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200107180158.f6I1w0O02414@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >There are MP3 players for 68k Amiga's?!?! That's either rather gutsy, or >pathetic, I'm not sure which. What do they do, decode them to another >format and then play them? I forget the name of it, but even when I had my A4000 a few years ago there was an MP3 player for it. It played ok on the stock '040. A quick search of Aminet turned up a bunch of encoders, as well as this player: http://us.aminet.net/pub/aminet/mus/play/TMLG.readme The program I liked was the MIDI player I was using. Totally software based for the samples, like the old Gravis Ultrasound used to do. At the time it was pretty cool. Of course, I had a decent selection of MODs too. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Jul 18 04:56:53 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <995450213.3b555d6504e2c@mail.er-grp.com> Quoting Mike Ford : > I bought something called a Romulator (something like that, > http://www.romrocket.com/) that I could dump a file to over a serial > link, > and then it behaved in circuit exactly like an eprom. I once contemplated building an eprom emulator from one of Ciarcias columns (198x Byte, when they still had articles). The reason for this OT message is that I almost ruined my keyboard with coke when I read the product name. Romu means junk in Finnish, Romulator -> Junkulator -> Junk-U-Later. I'm such a bore. -- jht From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Jul 18 05:52:16 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066057@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010718064946.00a6a2b0@mail.wincom.net> At 11:08 AM 17/07/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > Feldman, Robert wrote: > > > >I have an Osborne I Technical Reference manual, ut it is a bit >skimpy on the > >video (no circuit diagrams, for example). It does provide a pinout >for the > > My Osborne came with a folder (hand-)labelled > "Field Service Manual" full of odds and ends > ... including a bunch of schematics. > > At least two of the schematics have traces > labelled VIDEO so I assume that for once > I'm lucky and I actually have a reasonable > amount of info about one of my machines :-) > > I can scan the schematics assuming > a) someone wants them > and > b) someone has somewhere I can ftp them two. > > Antonio > arcarlini@iee.org I would very much like to get a copy of the Osborne 1 manual. I have been searching the web, but haven't located anything so far. If you want to scan yours and post it, you would be doing a great service. Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Jul 18 06:00:44 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010718065659.00a69170@mail.wincom.net> At 08:59 AM 17/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all, > >To answer the replies so far.... > >1) There is a small black connector labeled "Do no remove when power is on" >or something to that effect. I does indeed cover a card-edge style >connector. I did remove it, power OFF, and I didn't recall it had anything >conductive inside. It just looked like a plastic plug. I'll have to look >again, when I go home this evening... > >2) I did try the composite video output. Nothing there, either. > >3) As I stated before, there was no light from the CRT at all, after taking >the cover off and powering up. I will perform the ohmmeter test suggested >by Dave McGuire tonight. > >- As for the composite video connector... Does anyone know if there is any >magic keystroke or other setting to enable this? Perhaps if the internal >monitor is dead, I can still use an external one... According to the Osborne owners manual the video plug has to be in place for the internal monitor to work. I presume you have tried the brightness and contrast controls located to the lower right of the screen? Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jul 18 07:21:10 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video. Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066065@exc-reo1> >Charles E. Fox wrote: > I would very much like to get a copy of the Osborne > 1 manual. I > have been searching the web, but haven't located anything so > far. If you > want to scan yours and post it, you would be doing a great service. Scanning is no problem - I can scan the user guide (or whatever the correct title is), always assuming the sheet feeder does not eat the bog roll it seems to be printed on :-) I doubt I could post more than a CD since previous experience leads me to believe that the FS manual will end up in the region of 50-100MB and the UG could easily top 200MB. I'll leave it up to some genereous hoster to make them generally available (and possibly split them up for those with narrow straws between them and the net). I have other commitments that mean this probably won't happen until mid-August. Give or take six months :-) Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From gknight at emugaming.com Wed Jul 18 07:46:34 2001 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question References: <200107180158.f6I1w0O02414@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <010001c10f88$9db5f0c0$0101010a@pentium2> Zane H. Healy wrote: > There are MP3 players for 68k Amiga's?!?! That's either rather gutsy, or > pathetic, I'm not sure which. What do they do, decode them to another > format and then play them? My first exposure to MP3 was using an Amiga! They play fine on a 040, though you have to decrease the quality a bit. The minimum spec for Amiga MP3 players is usually a 030, though I heard one being played on an A1200 020 (full, not EC). It was recognisable, but not something I would enjoy to hear on a regular basis. On a related note, I notice that FreeGEM - the open source version of x86 GEM - has gained a MP3 and MIDI player. I'm planning to install it on the 486/33Mhz 4Mb machine I was given. At the moment it makes a brilliant DOS game machine - Elite Plus, Xmas Lemmings, and various card games have been installed on the hard disk. I'm installing an old 20+ disk set of MS Office as I type this. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jul 18 08:38:30 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Virii Message-ID: This virus is about 30KB of _assembler_ code: http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/magistr.shtml -----Original Message----- From: Glenatacme@aol.com [mailto:Glenatacme@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 10:36 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: Virii OT, yes (maybe some virii are >10 years old??) but related to programming in general. Plus, if no one on this list knows the answer, then there probably *isn't* an answer ;>) I received a virus in an e-mail attachment a few minutes ago. The sender is a wholesale supplier I'm acquainted with. NAV spotted the "W32.Magistr.corrupt" virus, could not repair the infected item, and asked for permission to delete the item, which I granted. I looked this virus up in the list of 50K+ virii that NAV currently claims to cover. No information was available, except that this virus is rare, it infects .exe files, and it is zero bytes in length. Now, I've cranked out a couple of boatloads of code over the last 19 years, and the smallest useful program I ever wrote was 3 bytes in length. It's easy enough to create a zero byte file, but as far as I can tell such a file can't *do* anything. How can I write a zero-byte program? How does NAV identify this virus if it's zero bytes in length? What real threat to my PC is an e-mail-propagated virus of length zero? WTF??? TIA, Glen 0/0 From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Jul 18 08:59:31 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal) References: <20010717233048.Q29420-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <3B559643.9922B420@greenbelt.com> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Feldman, Robert wrote: > > > Or you can sign up for DSL service, wait 5 months to get the line > > brought into your house, during which time you have to be home for > > half a dozen service calls, then the Telco will run the test and tell > > you that you are too far away. That was my experience with Telocity > > and Ameritech in Chicago. :( > > Jeez! My cable modem "installation" took about 10 minutes. I count that > as one of my life's best experiences. I nearly gave the service guy a > hug. > The problem I'm having is that Verizon claims that you don't need a second line (i.e. voice and data can be on the same line with DSL). It's untrue! I tried using a single line for data and voice using their microfilter technology. Well, all is fine for local calls, but when we would use the phone long distance there was substantial degradation in quality when speaking to the other party when simultaneously connected to the net via DSL. So I bit the bullet, kept the second line that I was used for data. Called Verizon to switch my DSL from main number to data number. $10 more a month but I am not locked into a year long deal. Hardare is free just like before. Now I have two sets. Anyway, its takes 3 weeks to set up DSL on THEIR end. On my end its a snap; hook DSL modem to phone line and ethernet to modem in computer. After that it a matter of installing SW via CD. No big deal, especially since I'll not need the microfilters that really don't work anyway! The problem is that Verizon conacted me after three weeks and said it would be another three weeks! Now I'm pissed. I have upgraded system with bigger hard drive, switched lines and have new HW. I'm ready, where are they? Eiric > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 09:03:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <003401c10f92$7e625560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I had one of those, albeit for the S-100 bus, and found it functional but not as useful as I'd originally hoped. It did save a little time, but all it really saved was the time used to transfer a binary file into the target system's memory. The things the more generously appointed systems like the AIM or the Apple don't allow you to do is (1) use address lines as device selects, (2) use ambiguous decoding, (3) adapt the processor speed to the code being executed, (4) anything else that involves changing system memory mapping or system timing to the target application. That's what I mean by "their features get in your way." They can compute anything you like, but the rate is dependent on their internals rather than your target. It happens I have the AIM schematic right here and what it indicates is that you might have a little trouble finding a block of space for your target application hardware in the memory map. The notes on my schematic indicate that I had to use a modificaiton to open a block of space for an external application hardware addition. The Apple memory map available for expansion hardware is a mite trickier, i.e each slot hin the backplane has different addresses available, yet each shares a chunk of space intended for a ROM. It's not terrimbly difficult to work around, but it means, at the outset, that you have to learn about the Apple rather than the target. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:39 AM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > >That rendered the use of a dedicated develpment system with in-circuit > >emulator > >unnecessary, though not totally without potential merit. > > I bought something called a Romulator (something like that, > http://www.romrocket.com/) that I could dump a file to over a serial link, > and then it behaved in circuit exactly like an eprom. That with little bits > of test software did just about everything I needed, along with a 4 trace > scope to look at timing etc. > > What exactly is it that a microprocessor "system" like the Apple II or > Aim65 can't do? (a paragraph not a page please) > > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 09:08:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> <995450213.3b555d6504e2c@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <003a01c10f93$1dc148a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The device type is a "ROM EMULATOR" meaning that it has a RAM array, in some cases battery-backed, and a cable by means of which its RAM can be inserted into a target application circuit's ROM socket and executed. It saves time associated with transferring assembled and linked binaries from a cross-development system to the target system. I assume you mean a modern keyboard, so I trust a little hot water and soap will fix the coke spill. The stuff is very corrosive, so don't delay in cleaning it up. I normally use the spray nozzle on my kitchen sink and hold the keyboard upside down so the water doesn't get into the switches (they're not waterproof). Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jarkko Teppo" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 3:56 AM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > Quoting Mike Ford : > > > I bought something called a Romulator (something like that, > > http://www.romrocket.com/) that I could dump a file to over a serial > > link, > > and then it behaved in circuit exactly like an eprom. > > I once contemplated building an eprom emulator from one of > Ciarcias columns (198x Byte, when they still had articles). > > The reason for this OT message is that I almost ruined my keyboard > with coke when I read the product name. Romu means junk in Finnish, > Romulator -> Junkulator -> Junk-U-Later. > > I'm such a bore. > -- > jht > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 09:13:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <010001c10f88$9db5f0c0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <01Jul18.101957edt.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> I forgot to mention that the other thing I changed was in the SCSI prefs. The machine had 'Synchronous Transfer' mode checked. I unchecked it it seems much more stable after that as well. Jeff From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 09:28:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal) References: <20010717233048.Q29420-100000@localhost> <3B559643.9922B420@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <005e01c10f95$e1fa3720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> My dsl service allowed me to discontinue my second line, and I often initiate/receive phone calls while online. The DSL costs less because (1) the DSL service is a few dollars less costly than a separate phone line, and (2) none of the additional fixed fees and taxes apply to the DSL line that would otherwise be added to the basic rate for a second line. I ordered my DSL service, waited about ten days, at which point I had a visit from the phone installation technicians, who then waded through the mess that existed in their wiring. After about a 4-day period of finding faults in their wiring, they gave my line their blessing, and, aside from one incident caused by another wiring error made after my installation, it's been more or less trouble free. I say more-or-less, because the modem driver software seems to cause some system instability. Though that explains why they (QWEST) got the Intel Pro2100 modems at a reduced rate, it doesn't explain why the user should put up with the problems they cause. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 7:59 AM Subject: Re: OT: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal) > "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Feldman, Robert wrote: > > > > > Or you can sign up for DSL service, wait 5 months to get the line > > > brought into your house, during which time you have to be home for > > > half a dozen service calls, then the Telco will run the test and tell > > > you that you are too far away. That was my experience with Telocity > > > and Ameritech in Chicago. :( > > > > Jeez! My cable modem "installation" took about 10 minutes. I count that > > as one of my life's best experiences. I nearly gave the service guy a > > hug. > > > > The problem I'm having is that Verizon claims that you don't need a second > line > (i.e. voice and data can be on the same line with DSL). It's untrue! > > I tried using a single line for data and voice using their microfilter > technology. > Well, all is fine for local calls, but when we would use the phone long > distance there > was substantial degradation in quality when speaking to the other party when > > simultaneously connected to the net via DSL. > > So I bit the bullet, kept the second line that I was used for data. Called > Verizon to switch my DSL > from main number to data number. $10 more a month but I am not locked into a > year > long deal. Hardare is free just like before. Now I have two sets. > > Anyway, its takes 3 weeks to set up DSL on THEIR end. On my end its a snap; > hook DSL modem to phone line and ethernet to modem in computer. After that > it a matter > of installing SW via CD. No big deal, especially since I'll not need the > microfilters that > really don't work anyway! > > The problem is that Verizon conacted me after three weeks and said it would > be another three weeks! > Now I'm pissed. I have upgraded system with bigger hard drive, switched > lines and have new HW. > I'm ready, where are they? > > Eiric > > > > > > -- > > Jeffrey S. Sharp > > jss@ou.edu > > From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Jul 18 09:40:46 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video Message-ID: {sorry for the delays in replying, but I only get the digest} Ok... I broke out the meter, and did a few checks.... Tony Duell suggested: >That's a nice, simple, circuit to start with. Carefully pull the >connector off the base of the CRT and check the heater continuity. If it >is a 7 pin CRT, it's a fair bet the heater pins are numbers 3 and 4. Well, it was a 7-pin connector, and I put an ohmmeter across pins 3 and 4. It measured 31.7 ohms. Is that reasonable? Robert Feldman suggested: >First thing to check is to make sure that you are getting +12V on contac1 14 >of the circuit board and pin 7 of the inline connector. I am getting +12V at both of these points (And by the way, thanks for the pinouts and other information!!)... Also, I suspect what I am referring to as a composite video output may not be that at all... It is an RCA jack that is attached to the front of the case, and is located just to the right of the connector marked "Battery". It has two wires attached, which go to a 2-pin plug on an "L" shaped circuit board. The "L" shaped board also contains the Z-80, some 6116 chips, and other stuff. It also contains the inline connector that Robert gave the pinout for (and in fact, the 2-pin plug is in very close physical proximity to the inline connector). I have seen several pictures of Osbornes, and now that I review them, none have this connector. It does not seem to be a hacked on modification, since the plug on the "L" shaped board was very obviously factory done. I will take Tony's advice and trace back to see if and where the 12V fails. Thanks! Rich B. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1649.monmouth.com Wed Jul 18 09:50:06 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1649.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066059@exc-reo1> from "Carlini, Antonio" at "Jul 17, 2001 11:47:07 pm" Message-ID: <200107181450.f6IEo7O01187@bg-tc-ppp1649.monmouth.com> > Jeffrey S. Sharp WROTE: > > On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > In some ways he should be paying you to remove the RA81's! > > > > They're *that* common? > > Ticking time bomb. Someone decided to use > a(n allegedly) cheaper glue even though the > spec more or less said "do not substitute". > The result was that a fair number of RA81s > failed early in service. > > They have a bad reputation. > > Antonio All the pre-REV G (*IIRC*) HDA's were ECO'd out of existance back in '86 when I worked at DEC... so they should be no problem today. Also, the pre REV F (*IIRC*) ones had the correct glue. Nothing like some dweeb skipping the do not substitute line and causing DEC millions in $$ in lost sales, field service overtime, overnight and quicker shipping. Damned near killed the company... and probably was done by Robert Palmer so he could dismember it and sell it off. Bill (bitter as hell about it) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From Mzthompson at aol.com Wed Jul 18 10:58:55 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: The NeXT best thing... Message-ID: <25.183ed016.28870c3f@aol.com> Before I start, I suspect that I will catch some flak from some list members over this. If that be the case, then so be it. With that said, an earlier haul consisted of 115 NeXT machines, all mono, with roughly 90 slabs and the rest cubes. Also included some 80 monitors, and about a dozen laser printers. And that of course included keyboards, mice, cables, and boxes of other flotsam. These were literally days away from being put in the dumpster, so it was a big task just to rescue them before that happened. Then it took weeks just to get a decent inventory. From that I realized it would take months to test eveything. That made me realize that I am a hobbyist and have no desire to become a NeXT dealer. With the exception of a couple machines and some other stuff, I sent the inventory list to Rob at Blackhole. The machines are now in his capable hands. Back on 7/9 and under the title "Attention NeXT Owners", I asked if there were any list members in need of specific items to 'complete' their machines. I held back enough to probably fill most of those requests. After I have tested those items to make sure they work, I will contact those who responded then. After that, I will make available to the list anything that might still be available. So under the heading "Recent addition", I can now say that I have two complete working mono turbo slabs. Needless to say I maxed them out with the largest hard drives and the most memory I could find. It was not until I finished with the two machines did I realize somthing. So I will ask: Q: What is the the NeXT best thing to having a NeXT machine? A: Having two NEXT machines & WITH consecutive serial numbers. As I said, there are probably those that will give me some flak for 'selling out'. The machines had to be rescued, but I had no desire to test, pack, and ship that many machines. If you want to give me hell, go ahead. I use to say that I considered the day a total loss unless I caught hell from someone. The line "Make My Day" comes to mind at this point. On a good note. During my last phone call with Rob, he indicated he was contemplating a mono slab special. He mentioned the price of $99. All of this was in a 10x20 rental storage locker. Although the NeXT is gone (and I forgot to take pictures), there is still some other machines there. I will probably post a list of that and some other stuff shortly. Most of it will be free for the taking. Mike From jrice at texoma.net Wed Jul 18 11:33:36 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: The NeXT best thing... References: <25.183ed016.28870c3f@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B55BA60.9BED8187@texoma.net> I don't blame you a bit. I'd love to get a haul like that, but I already work 80 hours a week and couldn't devote the time necessary to do such a task. Black Hole is a good supplier to the NeXT community. I'm glad the stuff ended up there. James (have a great TC slab,would love a cube, any cube) Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > > Before I start, I suspect that I will catch some flak from some > list members over this. If that be the case, then so be it. > > With that said, an earlier haul consisted of 115 NeXT machines, all > mono, with roughly 90 slabs and the rest cubes. Also included some > 80 monitors, and about a dozen laser printers. And that of course > included keyboards, mice, cables, and boxes of other flotsam. > > These were literally days away from being put in the dumpster, so it > was a big task just to rescue them before that happened. Then it took > weeks just to get a decent inventory. From that I realized it would > take months to test eveything. That made me realize that I am a > hobbyist and have no desire to become a NeXT dealer. > > With the exception of a couple machines and some other stuff, I sent > the inventory list to Rob at Blackhole. The machines are now in his > capable hands. > > Back on 7/9 and under the title "Attention NeXT Owners", I asked if > there were any list members in need of specific items to 'complete' > their machines. I held back enough to probably fill most of those > requests. After I have tested those items to make sure they work, > I will contact those who responded then. After that, I will make > available to the list anything that might still be available. > > So under the heading "Recent addition", I can now say that I > have two complete working mono turbo slabs. Needless to say I > maxed them out with the largest hard drives and the most memory > I could find. It was not until I finished with the two machines > did I realize somthing. So I will ask: > > Q: What is the the NeXT best thing to having a NeXT machine? > > A: Having two NEXT machines & WITH consecutive serial numbers. > > As I said, there are probably those that will give me some flak > for 'selling out'. The machines had to be rescued, but I had > no desire to test, pack, and ship that many machines. If you > want to give me hell, go ahead. I use to say that I considered > the day a total loss unless I caught hell from someone. The > line "Make My Day" comes to mind at this point. > > On a good note. During my last phone call with Rob, he indicated > he was contemplating a mono slab special. He mentioned the price > of $99. > > All of this was in a 10x20 rental storage locker. Although the > NeXT is gone (and I forgot to take pictures), there is still some > other machines there. I will probably post a list of that and > some other stuff shortly. Most of it will be free for the taking. > > Mike From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Jul 18 11:39:33 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Mountaingate RDR Message-ID: I found this on a web page from 1996. http://www.3dsite.com/3dsite/cgi/publications/daily-spectrum/issue226.html#M ountainGate MountainGate will manufacture, market and distribute the RCI line of Video Disk Recorders (VDR) and Real-time Disk Recorders (RDR) which provide large-capacity uncompressed storage solutions. Looks like MountainGate RDR is a real time video recorder. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jul 18 11:50:21 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! In-Reply-To: <20010718001542.L29420-100000@localhost> Message-ID: >This time, I went all ~1400 miles to San Diego. I've been saving my money >for this one, and it paid off nicely. I picked up: You're crazier than I am! >* PDP-11/20 -- According to the owner, this one worked last time it was >booted (no idea when that was), and I should expect the monitor to still >be loaded in the core. > >* PDP-11/20 -- Not known to be in working condition. Missing a few >switches up front and maybe a few boards inside. Basicaly, a spares >machine. The faceplate is the older one that just says "PDP11" instead of >"PDP11/20", and I'll probably transplant it to the working machine for >that reason. I'd say make *IT* the working system and use the working system as the parts machine. Don't just transplant the faceplate! >* TU56 -- Looks to be in great condition. > >* TC11 -- Looks to be in great condition. > >* DECtapes -- About 100 of them. I think there's an operating system and >a fortran compiler in there somewhere. > >* A few printsets. Sweet! >I'd like to find a couple of RK05 drives, maybe a PCxx paper tape >reader/punch, and their controllers to round out this system. Anybody >have any of these up for trade? I won't tell you how many years it's taken me to locate a papertape reader/punch, and it's for a PDP-8/e I'm getting. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 11:53:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: The NeXT best thing... In-Reply-To: <25.183ed016.28870c3f@aol.com> Message-ID: <01Jul18.125946edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> on 7/18/01 11:58 AM, Mzthompson@aol.com at Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > With the exception of a couple machines and some other stuff, I sent > the inventory list to Rob at Blackhole. The machines are now in his > capable hands. That's probably one of the best places the whole lot could've ended up at. I've dealt with Rob a couple of times and he's always provided good service. Not to mention he is one of the only places you can actually still purchase NeXT equipment from without looking for an individual selling off individual pieces. Jeff From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jul 18 11:58:54 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066059@exc-reo1> Message-ID: >Jeffrey S. Sharp WROTE: >> On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> > In some ways he should be paying you to remove the RA81's! >> >> They're *that* common? > >Ticking time bomb. Someone decided to use >a(n allegedly) cheaper glue even though the >spec more or less said "do not substitute". >The result was that a fair number of RA81s >failed early in service. > >They have a bad reputation. > >Antonio Well, there is that, however, what I was refering to is the fact that they're D***** heavy! A lot heavier than I want to deal with! Plus they suck up a lot of power, and take a lot of rack space. I prefer a couple boxes of RA7x disks, they take about the same space as one RA81, probably a little less, and you can have up to 8 disks between the two boxes, my second choice would be RA90's. Of course my real preference is for a SCSI controller, hence my PDP-11/44 has RL02's and a SCSI controller. Though my MicroVAX III has a KDA50 with RA72's and RA73's and a RLV12 controller for RL01's and RL02's. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 18 12:03:48 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <003401c10f92$7e625560$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >The things the more generously appointed systems like the AIM or the Apple >don't >allow you to do is (1) use address lines as device selects, (2) use ambiguous >decoding, (3) adapt the processor speed to the code being executed, (4) >anything >else that involves changing system memory mapping or system timing to the >target >application. That's what I mean by "their features get in your way." >but it means, at the outset, that you have to learn about the Apple rather >than >the target. Precisely, but once you KNOW the Apple II, you know it for all future projects. I basically followed the rules for expansion cards which allowed me to use address lines as device selects, if by ambiguous decoding you mean using just a "few" address lines, sure by including the slot enable signal or whatever it was (partial address decoding was done for me on Apple II for each slot). Number (3) seems like really bad form, making a circuit that depends on the processor running at some specific rate. Much better to write code that is "aware" of the processor speed and compensates for it. Number (4) never bothered me either. If the target system was sufficiently different, then I worked on the Apple II and downloaded code or burnt eproms that ran on the target. Sometimes I made conditional assembly, ie set a flag and code would compile that ran in the Apple II, set a different one and the code ran in the target. Since the whole point of this is learning microprocessors, what is the big problem in learning the MOST elegant implementation of the Apple II? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 18 02:06:30 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: (OT) Sgi Indy" (Jul 17, 20:47) References: <200107180347.f6I3lvT06130@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <10107180806.ZM10216@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 17, 20:47, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Um, I hope you got RAM with those systems. If not unless they're 5/110's or > 5/170's you're probably better off sticking them on eBay and putting the > money towards a Sparc 10 or 20. Simply put Sparc 5 RAM costs and arm and a > leg unless you get lucky! Only RAM I've found that's worse is > AlphaStation 500/333 RAM (I've got both a Sparc 5/70, and a AS500/333). What's special about the RAM for a Sparcstation 5 ? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 18 01:54:06 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Light Pens ..." (Jul 17, 20:22) References: <002d01c10f30$728a5600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10107180754.ZM10191@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 17, 20:22, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If the refresh memory is to support text and graphics, the pipeline must be > two-forked. Not necessarily. In a BBC Micro, for example, the 6845 is essentially generating a stream of pixel addresses, since what's stored in the screen memory is the bitmap of the character, not the character code. That's how you mix text and graphics on the same screen. When text is written to the screen, the OS looks up the bitmap(s) of the character(s) and writes the individual pixels to screen RAM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 18 02:05:26 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: "James L. Rice" "(OT) Sgi Indy" (Jul 17, 22:12) References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> Message-ID: <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 17, 22:12, James L. Rice wrote: > Thanks to eBay and a couple of list members, I now have my Indy up and > running and on the 'net using my ISDN router as the gateway. I can also > ping my office network through the other router. I'm currently running > IRIX 6.5. It has a R4400SC 150mhz cpu, 192mb ram, a 24bit graphics > card, Granite kb, mouse and 20" Trinitron monitor, a 2gb hard drive and > an Indycam. I'm building an external SCSI box to house a DAT drive, the > CD-ROM, a CD-R drive and a 2gb option drive. Now I need to find a > Presenter, a Cosmo board, a 10/100 GIO ethernet card, the XZ graphics > board and floptical drive to have a fairly complete system. Good luck finding a Presenter and 10/100 GIO at reasonable prices! > It looks > good sitting on my desk next to the NeXT TC slab. On the subject of NeXTs, how do you get a NeXT to use standard files (/etc/hosts, et al) instead of the netinfo stuff? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 12:15:11 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: The NeXT best thing... In-Reply-To: <01Jul18.125946edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20010718171511.67496.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > on 7/18/01 11:58 AM, Mzthompson@aol.com at Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > > With the exception of a couple machines and some other stuff, I sent > > the inventory list to Rob at Blackhole. The machines are now in his > > capable hands. > > That's probably one of the best places the whole lot could've ended up > at. I've dealt with Rob a couple of times and he's always provided good > service. Not to mention he is one of the only places you can actually still > purchase NeXT equipment from without looking for an individual selling off > individual pieces. I tried to buy a disk bracket from him and I never got a response from his order page. I _did_ get one from a list member. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From red at bears.org Wed Jul 18 12:24:34 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: <10107180806.ZM10216@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > What's special about the RAM for a Sparcstation 5 ? They're 5 volt, buffered, parity DIMMs. The only popular system that used 5 volt buffered DIMMs were the old PowerMacs, which don't use parity. Even beyond that, there's something else about them. I tried using SPARCstation 5 DIMMs in my Apple Network Server (also wanting 5 volt buffered parity DIMMs) and the ANS completely refused to see them. That was disappointing since SS5 RAM is infinitely more abundant, but oh well. I haven't tried the reverse test yet (whether ANS RAM will work in the SS5). ok r. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 12:30:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010718173033.9685.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >This time, I went all ~1400 miles to San Diego. I've been saving my money > >for this one, and it paid off nicely. I picked up: > > You're crazier than I am! Me, too. My furthest haul was Columbus to Louisville for a PDP-8/L with high-speed punch/reader, ASR-33 and BM-08. It's what I show off to visitors. > >* PDP-11/20... Nice. I'll be glad to hear how your restoration work goes. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I have the parts of an 11/20 that was chopped up and disposed of before it got to me (PSU cables cut, etc). I have most of the core (some was scavenged by cow-orkers), all of the CPU and 3/4 of the BA-11s. It's way down on the list of thing to fix, but I did at least save the parts from the dumpster after my supervisor threw it all out, piece by piece. Something _I_ have that you might be interested in is a full set of original printed docs, color covers and all. About 10-12 prints. > Missing a few switches up front... Speaking of which, is there a good subsititute? I have some broken PDP-8/L switches - the plastic pivot pins snap off when people bump past the console. I was planning on melting/drilling the broken ones and fashioning a replacement metal pivot. Anyone with any suggestions? > I'd say make *IT* the working system and use the working system as the > parts machine. Don't just transplant the faceplate! I agree. It's a modular system. Should be easy to fix if you keep the boards together in a block (I'd consider removable adhesive labels or perhaps light pencil marks in the margin of the board, away from any traces) > >* TU56 -- Looks to be in great condition. > > > >* TC11 -- Looks to be in great condition. > > > >* DECtapes -- About 100 of them. I think there's an operating system and > >a fortran compiler in there somewhere. > > > >* A few printsets. Excellent. I also recently landed some of that stuff, too. We should trade a tape inventory. I couldn't save most of the tapes due to company policy of the donor, but there was a box of them in the base of the cabinet that was overlooked. > >I'd like to find a couple of RK05 drives, maybe a PCxx paper tape > >reader/punch, and their controllers to round out this system. Anybody > >have any of these up for trade? I might be able to help you out there. I have to see what I have in the way of RK05 stuff. I know I have drives and packs. What I'm not sure about is controllers. My first RK05 drives (one good, one very dead) came with an RK11C. I have never even fired it up. My next RK05 came with an RKV11D. It works, or at least it did the last time I fired it up (years ago). Mostly, I use RL drives; not period for the 11/20, I know, but they were cheap and available when I got into all of this. > I won't tell you how many years it's taken me to locate a papertape > reader/punch, and it's for a PDP-8/e I'm getting. I'd love to get an OMNIBUS controller. I have the punch/reader (along with one set of pre-OMNIBUS cards for my PDP-8/L and -8/i). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jul 18 12:30:39 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: The NeXT best thing... In-Reply-To: <25.183ed016.28870c3f@aol.com> Message-ID: >Before I start, I suspect that I will catch some flak from some >list members over this. If that be the case, then so be it. No flak from me, that would big a pile would be a major problem to deal with. As you say, you're a hobbyist, not a dealer, I hate to think how much of your time that could have soaked up, and for how long. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 12:42:27 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:50 2005 Subject: ROM emulation (was Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors) In-Reply-To: <003a01c10f93$1dc148a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010718174227.71191.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Hopefully I haven't screwed the attribution here... > > Quoting Mike Ford : > > > > > I bought something called a Romulator (something like that, > > > http://www.romrocket.com/) that I could dump a file to over a serial > > > link, > > > and then it behaved in circuit exactly like an eprom. If it was a genuine "Romulator", it may have been made here in Columbus by a friend of mine - Grammar Engine produced the Romulator about 15 years ago and later produced the PROMice. I have one of each. They are awesome. I had to code the ROMs for our VAXBI product and using ROM emulation gave me about 50 edit-compile-download-test cycles per day instead of 5-10. The big benefit was that I didn't have to power down the 8300 to change out the ROMs. Arvind gave me the source for the download program and I got it working under VMS so I could compile the 68000 target code (on our homegrown assembler) and shoot it into the COMBOARD, all from the same makefile! I can recommend highly anyone doing firmware development to have one of these. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 18 12:54:01 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Keyboard Cleaning Question Message-ID: Anyone know a good way to thoroughly clean an IBM buckling-spring "clickety" keyboard? Peace... Sridhar From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 18 13:02:26 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Rare Storageworks Find Message-ID: <200107181802.f6II2QB03905@narnia.int.dittman.net> I saw an odd-looking Storageworks shelf on eBay. The opening bid was $19.95, so I figured why not give it a try and see. The auction closed without any other bids, so I got the box. After it arrived I took it apart to see what I could find. It turns out this is an engineering evaluation shelf for the the next generation Storageworks product. The design was cancelled when Compaq bought Digital and they went with a completely new design (the "universal" shelf). This shelf is a copper FC storage cabinet with room for eight FC drives. There's a controller unit and two 8x4 FC switches. I'm now in the process of getting an FC controller. This should be interesting. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 18 13:17:22 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: S-box KDA50 Panel Message-ID: <200107181817.f6IIHMG03949@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone know the part number for the KDA50 distribution panel that mounts on the S-box (the one that is a two-wide or three-wide cover plate) with the four SDI sockets? Does anyone have a spare they'd sell? I lucked into a set of four RA73 drives in the cage with the cable. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 18 13:21:22 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: OT: Coke/Pepsi (was: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <003a01c10f93$1dc148a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > > The reason for this OT message is that I almost ruined my keyboard > > with coke when I read the product name. Romu means junk in Finnish, > > Romulator -> Junkulator -> Junk-U-Later. On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I assume you mean a modern keyboard, so I trust a little hot water and soap will > fix the coke spill. The stuff is very corrosive, so don't delay in cleaning it > up. I normally use the spray nozzle on my kitchen sink and hold the keyboard > upside down so the water doesn't get into the switches (they're not waterproof). I have always reassured my programming students that nothing that they accidentally enter through the keyboard of their computers would actually DAMAGE the computer. One wiseguy said, "I entered a Pepsi." After Three Mile Island, Saturday Night Live postulated that it was caused by "The Pepsi Syndrome", the result of spilling a Pepsi into a computer keyboard. Shortly after that, the U.S.A. and USSR (CCCP) normalized diplomatic relations enough to import vodka and export Pepsi to Russia. That was followed almost immediately by Chernobyl. Surely that could not be coincidence! Until their recent bailout, Apple computers ride into failure was with a former Pepsi exedcutive at the helm. Coincidence? From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jul 18 13:37:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715138D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Me, too. My furthest haul was Columbus to Louisville for a PDP-8/L with > high-speed punch/reader, ASR-33 and BM-08. It's what I show > off to visitors. Ethan- Are you telling me you came down here to Louisville, KY and grabbed a PDP-8 right out from underneath my nose? Way to go, dude! But let me have the next one, OK? ;-) -dq From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Jul 18 13:56:43 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <995482603.3b55dbeb5a55e@mail.er-grp.com> Quoting Pete Turnbull : > On the subject of NeXTs, how do you get a NeXT to use standard files > (/etc/hosts, et al) instead of the netinfo stuff? One doesn't :-(. What I normally do is I disconnect the NI-stuff from the hierarchy and start using DNS. What you may want to read is chapter 10 (Incorporating a NeXT Computer into a Mixed Network) from NeXT Network and System Administration. Available on paper back and probably on your system disk as well. Man-pages on niload and nidump might help too. Honestly, I never remember how to do it so I just improvise and create a local NI hierarchy and use DNS for name resolution. The chapter did mention NIS (yp) so that *might* be an option. -- jht From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 18 14:03:25 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715138D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: My furthest haul was from New York City to Toronto to get four VAX4000s. The hardest one was Upstate New York to Suburban (DC) Maryland to pick up a DECsystem 5810, courtesy of Dave McGuire. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Me, too. My furthest haul was Columbus to Louisville for a PDP-8/L with > > high-speed punch/reader, ASR-33 and BM-08. It's what I show > > off to visitors. > > Ethan- > > Are you telling me you came down here to Louisville, KY and > grabbed a PDP-8 right out from underneath my nose? > > Way to go, dude! But let me have the next one, OK? > > ;-) > > -dq > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 14:05:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715138D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010718190512.76831.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Me, too. My furthest haul was Columbus to Louisville for a PDP-8/L with > > high-speed punch/reader, ASR-33 and BM-08. It's what I show > > off to visitors. > > Ethan- > > Are you telling me you came down here to Louisville, KY and > grabbed a PDP-8 right out from underneath my nose? In 1986, yes, 3rd-party cabinet and all. > Way to go, dude! But let me have the next one, OK? NP -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 18 14:11:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: OT: Coke/Pepsi (was: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010718191130.83257.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > The reason for this OT message is that I almost ruined my keyboard > > > with coke when I read the product name. Romu means junk in Finnish... > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I assume you mean a modern keyboard, so I trust a little hot water > > and soap will fix the coke spill... > > I have always reassured my programming students that nothing that they > accidentally enter through the keyboard of their computers would actually > DAMAGE the computer. One wiseguy said, "I entered a Pepsi." > > After Three Mile Island, Saturday Night Live postulated that it was caused > by "The Pepsi Syndrome", the result of spilling a Pepsi into a computer > keyboard.... A friend of mine worked for a small company in North-Eastern Ohio when a customer called to complain that his computer was broken. After a lengthy discussion, my friend drilled down through the possibilities to this... Customer: Maybe it had something to do with the office party last night. Service Rep: Sir, why don't you tell me about that... Customer: Well, we's just sittin' around, listenin' to some tunes and havin' us a few beers when we got to thinkin', "maybe the computer is thirsty," so we poured it a beer. Service Rep (wincing): Where, sir? Customer: In the keyboard, of course. It was a TRS-80 Model-III-style computer with the mainboard under the keyboard. The customer was quite upset that even though he was more than 200 miles away, they could not get a replacement to him that same day. In the end, my friend drove half-way, met the customer who also drove half-way and got him another one. I never heard, but I hope they charged him out the wazoo. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 14:14:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: <3B4FBDF9.7BC9FF6B@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <002201c10fbd$decd0be0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see inline comments, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > >The things the more generously appointed systems like the AIM or the Apple > >don't > >allow you to do is (1) use address lines as device selects, (2) use ambiguous > >decoding, (3) adapt the processor speed to the code being executed, (4) > >anything > >else that involves changing system memory mapping or system timing to the > >target > >application. That's what I mean by "their features get in your way." > > >but it means, at the outset, that you have to learn about the Apple rather > >than > >the target. > > Precisely, but once you KNOW the Apple II, you know it for all future > projects. I basically followed the rules for expansion cards which allowed > me to use address lines as device selects, if by ambiguous decoding you > mean using just a "few" address lines, sure by including the slot enable > signal or whatever it was (partial address decoding was done for me on > Apple II for each slot). > Yes, but, since the original question was regarding learning about microprocessors, which are hardware components, and not system/software-products, that requires lots of effort dedicated to learning tools that don't really need to be learned in context. > > Number (3) seems like really bad form, making a circuit that depends on the > processor running at some specific rate. Much better to write code that is > "aware" of the processor speed and compensates for it. > Number (3) is very GOOD form, since microprocessors are HARDWARE and hardware should be optimized for each task it performs. Microprocessors are just substitutes for dedicated hardware, and, in the examples I mentioned before, they'd fall apart if they had to operate at rates a few percent off the rates at which they function. If you limit a processor to one oscillator frequency, where you started out with a virtually unlimited capability, you end up with a VERY limited system. Making the thing faster won't always make it better, where making it operate at the correct speed, where a loop can be precisely synchronized with a process operating at an independent rate, will make things work. This wouldn't be an issue, of course if the processor and memory in an Apple or AIM were infinitely fast, but they're not. If you fiddle with the AIM's oscillator, it might work, but until you study out the precise effects on timing, say, of the print resistors in the printer, you may find that you damage things, or, if you speed it up, the motor in the printer may not work. It's true, you could rewrite the code ... but I dont' want to do that. Rather than a $300-400 AIM, I'd rather buy a $90 (prices are based on 1979, when the AIM was new, as was the 6801L1) component, and build the target hardware so it runs at a rate that suits the application. It's HARDWARE, after all, and it should suit the applicaton, not the development system. > > Number (4) never bothered me either. If the target system was sufficiently > different, then I worked on the Apple II and downloaded code or burnt > eproms that ran on the target. Sometimes I made conditional assembly, ie > set a flag and code would compile that ran in the Apple II, set a different > one and the code ran in the target. > Those techniques are fine, but they don't relate to the task of learning about micorprocessors. They may be involved in a given implementation, but they don't address the needs of a student learning how to build microprocessor-based hardware. Elegant hardware is the simplest, least complicated, least costly, that does the job while meeting all the spec's, including reliability. In some applications, 99% was good enough. Computers, including microprocessor-based hardware, that don't achieve a part in 10^9 reliability need thorough study, however. > > Since the whole point of this is learning microprocessors, what is the big > problem in learning the MOST elegant implementation of the Apple II? > The problem is that if you write code that relies on a 0.768 MHz Phase-0 clock, it's awfully difficult to test in an Apple. The hardware/firmware boundary is probaly the most critical issue in microprocessor system design. That's what makes the Apple as good as it is at what it does, but it's also what makes it as poor a solution as it is for what it doesn't do well. It has absolutely no flexibility in its execution rate because it's tightly coupled with the video circuitry. There's even a "skip-a-beat" cycle in which it keeps in sync with the color burst. That's one that someone pointed out to me back in the late '70's when the Apple was new, and, while it's a clever way to do what they needed to do in order to make the Apple what it is, it's just exactly the thing I'm saying makes the Apple a poor environment for learning about using microprocessors, which are, after all, a hardware element. What platform you use to develop software is completely arbitrary, since anything at all will work, whether it's a 1 Hz 4004, or a 1.5 GHz Pentium. The timing may vary, though. It takes a while to learn the stuff that it's necessary to know in order to use the Apple. It takes a while to learn nearly any environment. However, learning about the way in which software is implemented when your job is to produce hardware, is something that CAN get you fired, and always WILL make the schedule slip. > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 14:24:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: <002d01c10f30$728a5600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <10107180754.ZM10191@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002e01c10fbf$40588dc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, that's certainly an option, but was never very popular for cost reasons. When memory got a little cheaper, it became less of an issue whether you had 11 bytes per character instead of (1 + a character-genrator). A graphic image of a character would need about that much, at least 10 bytes, I think, if you want full decenders. Back in the Apple and CP/M days, inexpensive microprocessors were too slow to do that sort of thing at a reasonable rate. Later on it was not uncommon to have different font sizes/styles/colors in the same graphic, but that was a different era. It was never a secret that one could do this, but the cost factor was what made character generators popular for presenting text. Character generators (ROMs) weren't cheap either, BTW. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:54 AM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > On Jul 17, 20:22, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > If the refresh memory is to support text and graphics, the pipeline must > be > > two-forked. > > Not necessarily. In a BBC Micro, for example, the 6845 is essentially > generating a stream of pixel addresses, since what's stored in the screen > memory is the bitmap of the character, not the character code. That's how > you mix text and graphics on the same screen. When text is written to the > screen, the OS looks up the bitmap(s) of the character(s) and writes the > individual pixels to screen RAM. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 14:28:19 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Keyboard Cleaning Question References: Message-ID: <003a01c10fbf$cd1d3c60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd guess there's a better way, but I clean my "original" IBM keyboards by pulling the keycaps and spraying the things with a "409" equivalent, upside down, and then rinsing (upside-down) over the kitchen sink with hot water. The detergent makes the water run off quickly and I then let it drain and dry while still upside down. I've never spilled pop on them though I did, once, spill beer on one. Mainly it's dust and dirt, and, generally, a brushing with a soft toothbrush will remove most of that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Master of all that Sucks" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 11:54 AM Subject: Keyboard Cleaning Question > > Anyone know a good way to thoroughly clean an IBM buckling-spring > "clickety" keyboard? > > Peace... Sridhar > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 18 14:20:46 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: ROM emulation (was Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors) In-Reply-To: <20010718174227.71191.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <003a01c10f93$1dc148a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >> > > I bought something called a Romulator (something like that, >> > > http://www.romrocket.com/) that I could dump a file to over a serial >> > > link, >> > > and then it behaved in circuit exactly like an eprom. > >If it was a genuine "Romulator", it may have been made here in Columbus >by a friend of mine - Grammar Engine produced the Romulator about 15 That be them, and where the link points. I had you beat on turnaround time though, the Apple IIgs running LISA would let me make a change in the source (30k to 40k lines total), assemble and download ready to reset the target system and test in less than 2 minutes. From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Jul 18 14:53:56 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! In-Reply-To: References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715138D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010718155222.03079e40@mail.njd.concentric.com> Sridhar - My longest haul was pretty close to that -- Wilmington, DE (about 2.5 hours south of NYC) to Toronto and back the same day to pick up a stack of DEC Computer Labs. -- Tony At 03:03 PM 7/18/2001 -0400, you wrote: >My furthest haul was from New York City to Toronto to get four >VAX4000s. The hardest one was Upstate New York to Suburban (DC) Maryland >to pick up a DECsystem 5810, courtesy of Dave McGuire. > >Peace... Sridhar > >On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > > Me, too. My furthest haul was Columbus to Louisville for a PDP-8/L with > > > high-speed punch/reader, ASR-33 and BM-08. It's what I show > > > off to visitors. > > > > Ethan- > > > > Are you telling me you came down here to Louisville, KY and > > grabbed a PDP-8 right out from underneath my nose? > > > > Way to go, dude! But let me have the next one, OK? > > > > ;-) > > > > -dq > > From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 18 15:00:16 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors Message-ID: <200107182000.f6IK0GW30504@narnia.int.dittman.net> My take on learning microprocessors: 1) Pick a reasonable processor. An 8085, Z80, 6502, or 680x is reasonable. A Pentium III is not. 2) Read the data sheets. Get an idea of what the timing requirements are, how you interface to the timing, address, data, and I/O. Don't rely on other people's schematics unless you absolutely have no idea what you should do. Make sure after using other people's schematics that you do under- stand what they did and why. 3) Build a simple circuit on a large wire-wrap board. Include the processor, minimal ROM, minimal RAM, and a simple I/O port with eight LEDs attached. Write a small program to write different values to the LEDs. Verify they are correct. Use a wire-wrap board with enough room to add lots of stuff later. You'll be glad of the room later. 4) Add a serial I/O port. Write a small program to read data from a terminal (or equivalent) and echo the data back. 5) Start extending the program to write your own machine language monitor. You've got the I/O routines. Add the functions one or two at a time, testing along the way. You'll want to add memory read, memory write, memory fill, register read, register write, port read, port write, program start, breakpoints, but not a disassembler or assembler. Learn the machine code first. Later you can add the assembler/disassembler. 6) Add some kind of program storage, either out through the serial port, through an additional serial port (adding another shouldn't be difficult), or some other way. Be creative. 7) Go off on your own. Experiment. Add some A/D converters. Add some D/A converters. Whatever you find interesting. But the most important point to remember is to understand the whats and whys of everything you do. Step (5) is probably the one you'd be most tempted to cheat on, but it really isn't that difficult to roll your own. If you'd like, after you've got the basic functions going, you can either add features from some other monitor program, or use a completely different monitor program modified to work with your system, but definitely write the basics yourself so you know what's going on. Any comments? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Wed Jul 18 17:12:14 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: HP1000/A600 worth saving ? Message-ID: <01071900161300.00767@jos> The above might be avaliable ( with some peripherals ) : it is worth saving ? I could not find too much info in the net . Around 1980's I assume. I don't even know if it is a mini or if it is microprocessr based... Any comments ? ( BTW location Zurich, Switzerland ) Regards, Jos Dreesen From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jul 18 15:14:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151390@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Ethan- > > > > Are you telling me you came down here to Louisville, KY and > > grabbed a PDP-8 right out from underneath my nose? > > In 1986, yes, 3rd-party cabinet and all. Oh. Well, ok, in 1986, my consciousness hadn't risen the level it's on today. > > Way to go, dude! But let me have the next one, OK? > > NP Que? From gessler at ucla.edu Wed Jul 18 15:26:48 2001 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nick Gessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: swordfish HOLODECK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010718132021.01c0a9d0@pop.bol.ucla.edu> At 02:58 PM 7/13/01 -0700, Mike Cheponis wrote: >Are you kidding? Whatever happened to the Holodeck? geez... -mac The HOLODECK? The Holodeck is alive and well at USC: http://www.ict.usc.edu/press_new/hr1.html Then back up to http://www.ict.usc.edu/ Nick From hans at vaxbusters.org Wed Jul 18 15:31:54 2001 From: hans at vaxbusters.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hans_H=FCbner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: HP1000/A600 worth saving ? In-Reply-To: <01071900161300.00767@jos> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, jos.mar wrote: > The above might be avaliable ( with some peripherals ) : it is worth saving ? > I could not find too much info in the net . Around 1980's I assume. > I don't even know if it is a mini or if it is microprocessr based... This is propably one of the proprietary HP minis. These machines were pretty successful at the time, but Unix made these machines go away. I'd say it would be worth saving. If you don't have the space yourself, I could ask a friend in Switzerland who I bet is pretty interested :) Regards, Hans -- finger hans@huebner.org for details From rdd at smart.net Wed Jul 18 15:49:45 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: HP1000/A600 worth saving ? In-Reply-To: <01071900161300.00767@jos> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, jos.mar wrote: > The above might be avaliable ( with some peripherals ) : it is worth saving ? If it's what I think it is, the answer is: yes! Grab it; nice find! > I could not find too much info in the net . Around 1980's I assume. > I don't even know if it is a mini or if it is microprocessr based... My HP-1000 is a mini with blinkenlights/switches... well, they would be blinkenlights if the PSU was alive and enabling their blinkability. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 15:42:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors References: <200107182000.f6IK0GW30504@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <000a01c10fca$3209d480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This makes a good deal of sense. I just favor using a single-chipper like the 6801L1, which has a ROM monitor in it so you can (a) establish that the "thing" you've built is functional without hooking up lots of hardware, and (b) so you can quickly verify that you can talk to the other features of your system. I tend to start with the internal serial channel, then migrate to an external one once I've established that I can talk to it. Likewise, if I want external memory, I like to use the internal features so I can verify that the external RAM/ROM is functioning the way I want before moving my reliance to the external devices. Once I know the external stuff is working, the internal hardware can be used as target hardware instead of development hardware. That requires the sacrifice of some address space, but that's a small price. You can use whatever CPU clock the CPU can tolerate once the external serial port is verified, since the CPU clock no longer has effect on the serial channel. Likewise, if you have to have an external timer, the Lilbug monitor easily supports that as well. An 805x type device (and probably quite a few others) will allow the same thing, BTW, though it requires a little more "fancy" hardware. The 805x types have separate program and data memory, though they support 64K bytes of each. What that means is that if you map a portion of a RAM into program memory space, you can run a monitor that loads upper data ram with a program, then, on reset, uses that instead of the resident monitor. Moreover, it can also be mapped such that you can use the internal or external EPROM monitor (which YOU have to provide unless you have a ROM monitor part comparable to the MOT part I mentioned earlier) to transfer control to your code. Since most code sets are smaller than the 64 KB space, this mapping works out well. In those cases where you're operating close to the limits, a more imaginative approach is needed, though there is no dearth of those. Both the 805x and 6801/03 types use the same sort of latched lower-address bus that the 8085/86 types use, so compatible support devices are commonly available. Though the 8080, 8085, 8086, 680x, 650x, etc, were widely used in the 70's and '80's, they're gone now, simply because the common external peripherals have been moved onto the chip. Unfortunately, that deprives the user of the "fun" of devising the most effective implementation, and also eliminates the ability to attach external devices in many cases. The current MOT 8-bit devices, for the most part, no longer support external devices, though they still make some MCU's that do. The more basic 68K-core MCU's, and the DSP's still require the skills one would acquire from designing with the old 8-bit types, and the coding techniques will probably never become obsolete. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 2:00 PM Subject: Intro to Microprocessors > My take on learning microprocessors: > > 1) Pick a reasonable processor. An 8085, Z80, > 6502, or 680x is reasonable. A Pentium III is > not. > 2) Read the data sheets. Get an idea of what the > timing requirements are, how you interface to > the timing, address, data, and I/O. Don't rely > on other people's schematics unless you absolutely > have no idea what you should do. Make sure after > using other people's schematics that you do under- > stand what they did and why. > 3) Build a simple circuit on a large wire-wrap > board. Include the processor, minimal ROM, > minimal RAM, and a simple I/O port with eight > LEDs attached. Write a small program to write > different values to the LEDs. Verify they are > correct. Use a wire-wrap board with enough room > to add lots of stuff later. You'll be glad of > the room later. > 4) Add a serial I/O port. Write a small program to > read data from a terminal (or equivalent) and > echo the data back. > 5) Start extending the program to write your own > machine language monitor. You've got the I/O > routines. Add the functions one or two at a > time, testing along the way. You'll want to > add memory read, memory write, memory fill, > register read, register write, port read, > port write, program start, breakpoints, but > not a disassembler or assembler. Learn the > machine code first. Later you can add the > assembler/disassembler. > 6) Add some kind of program storage, either out > through the serial port, through an additional > serial port (adding another shouldn't be > difficult), or some other way. Be creative. > 7) Go off on your own. Experiment. Add some > A/D converters. Add some D/A converters. > Whatever you find interesting. But the most > important point to remember is to understand > the whats and whys of everything you do. > > Step (5) is probably the one you'd be most tempted to > cheat on, but it really isn't that difficult to roll > your own. If you'd like, after you've got the basic > functions going, you can either add features from > some other monitor program, or use a completely > different monitor program modified to work with your > system, but definitely write the basics yourself so > you know what's going on. > > Any comments? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jul 18 16:12:03 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: HP1000/A600 worth saving ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107182112.XAA10970@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 18 Jul, Hans H?bner wrote: > This is propably one of the proprietary HP minis. These machines were pretty > successful at the time, but Unix made these machines go away. See: http://www.hp1000.com/main.htm > I'd say it would be worth saving. If you don't have the space yourself, I > could ask a friend in Switzerland who I bet is pretty interested :) S.F. is already informed... ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:15:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <002501c10f2e$a8dc32c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 17, 1 08:09:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2488 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/335a2d10/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:06:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: ZNR Varistor markings, Take 2. In-Reply-To: <009d01c10f2a$505d0100$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from "Geoff Roberts" at Jul 18, 1 11:08:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2832 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/959b4eac/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:28:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <20010717232205.N29420-100000@localhost> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jul 17, 1 11:23:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/57fb2716/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:26:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: OT: Virii In-Reply-To: <118.1ce28aa.28865e04@aol.com> from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Jul 17, 1 11:35:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1510 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/5742df2d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 13:22:06 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 In-Reply-To: from "Mzthompson@aol.com" at Jul 17, 1 09:35:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1540 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/bf7c6493/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:22:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Light Pens .. In-Reply-To: <002d01c10f30$728a5600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 17, 1 08:22:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2014 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/11d45850/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:42:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <10107180754.ZM10191@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 18, 1 06:54:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 936 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/652ee116/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 16:10:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:51 2005 Subject: OT: Coke/Pepsi (was: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 18, 1 11:21:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 489 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/8ec0c72b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:50:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Osborne One -- No video In-Reply-To: from "Rich Beaudry" at Jul 18, 1 10:40:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1438 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/346e8391/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:40:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <10107180739.ZM10175@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 18, 1 06:40:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/6d851230/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 15:57:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 18, 1 10:03:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 796 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/8a61b164/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 16:08:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Keyboard Cleaning Question In-Reply-To: from "Master of all that Sucks" at Jul 18, 1 01:54:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5525 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/59316564/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Jul 18 17:07:41 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: OT: Virii In-Reply-To: References: <118.1ce28aa.28865e04@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010718180741.00a29e50@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: >Rumor has it that Glenatacme@aol.com may have mentioned these words: >> I looked this virus up in the list of 50K+ virii that NAV currently claims to >> cover. No information was available, except that this virus is rare, it >> infects .exe files, and it is zero bytes in length. >> >> Now, I've cranked out a couple of boatloads of code over the last 19 years, >> and the smallest useful program I ever wrote was 3 bytes in length. It's >> easy enough to create a zero byte file, but as far as I can tell such a file >> can't *do* anything. >> >> How can I write a zero-byte program? How does NAV identify this virus if >> it's zero bytes in length? What real threat to my PC is an e-mail-propagated >> virus of length zero? > > >My guess (never having seen this virus, and certainly never having >written a virus) is that the code is not 0 bytes long (for the obvious >reason), but that it overwrites some bytes in the files it infects rather >than addting itself to the file, so the file remains the same size. > >So the _change_ in file size is 0 bytes. Either that, or it's a typo on NAV's website... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 18 17:08:49 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: OT: Coke/Pepsi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I have always reassured my programming students that nothing that they > > accidentally enter through the keyboard of their computers would actually > > DAMAGE the computer. One wiseguy said, "I entered a Pepsi." On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > More seriously, on a PC with an IBM MDA card and IBM 5151 monitor, what > about a series of port write (output) commands that reprogram the 6845 to > generate a strange horizontal sync frequency. That can let the magic > smoke out of the monitor horizontal output stage. In "PC-POWER", later renamed "Peeks and Pokes", Brett Salter (who did the "Periscope" hardware assisted debugger) had some serious problems when he demo'd (in BOTH meanings!) the video modes, including some unacceptable ones. That is why I had included the word "accidentally" - to cover the few possible ways of causing damage, that would not occur without extra effort or intent. Some modern motherboards will let you "flash" the BIOS, ... potentially leaving you with a dead machine and no way to boot up to fix it other than unsoldering and replacing the old BIOS. And, although it does not cause any HARDWARE damage, you can always erase the hard disk, and/or wipe the CMOS, so that it needs to be reconfigured. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 18 17:13:36 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Keyboard Cleaning Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I know how to take it apart. I was hoping I could clean it after just taking the keycaps off. Peace... Sridhar From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 18 17:23:48 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Keyboard Cleaning Question In-Reply-To: <003a01c10fbf$cd1d3c60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'd guess there's a better way, but I clean my "original" IBM keyboards by > pulling the keycaps ON THE KEYBOARDS MADE BY IBM, be very careful about pulling off the spacebar. It takes significant extra effort to re-attach it. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 17:30:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Keyboard Cleaning Question In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 18, 1 03:23:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 579 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010718/e7f55ecc/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 18 18:01:56 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Grey Wall in NYC Message-ID: <005501c10fdd$c27633c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I have a lead on a DEC "Grey Wall" in NYC. Contact me off list if you're interested. There are about 20 vols on VMS and 8 vols on VAX-GKS. The owners will likely toss in one or more vt320's too if you want 'em. The owner has enough conscience not to just throw stuff out; I got him to wait another week or three. My cup runneth over. John A. From ML_WOOD at ColoradoCollege.edu Wed Jul 18 18:25:10 2001 From: ML_WOOD at ColoradoCollege.edu (Michael L Wood (S)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit Microprocessor tr aining kit? Message-ID: I'm interested, where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit Microprocessor training kit? Thanks if you can reply! From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 18 18:23:29 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 References: Message-ID: <00f501c10fe0$a76cc960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > J = tolerance (which I can't remember, 10%?) Don't eliminate "Joule" from consideration. Seems like it would be one useful measure of a Cap. (Uhhhh, Tony?) John A. From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Jul 18 18:56:08 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: HP1000/A600 worth saving ? References: Message-ID: <3B562218.B263B76D@tiac.net> An A600 does not have blinking lights, nor switches. Its a smallish box with no front pannel. Those disappeared from HP systems like the 21MX series. (The A600 is based on a LSI chip version of the 21MX machines) In fact, machines line the 21MX series (2113, etc) have switches and lights, but very few blink while the machine is running. Once the CPU enters the run state the front panel leds display the contents of the S register which is rarely changed by HP software. If you run HP Basic, the extend and overflow lights will flicker for you, but honestly, this is no blinkinlights machine (like a 2114,5,6, or something like a PDP 11/40). You can write small loops to write to the S-reg and make the machine ~look~ sorta like a true blinkinlights machine though. If you have a 2113-style machine and think its power supply is bad, your probably only missing a small plug on the back of the power supply. Without this plug the machine powers up but the front panel will be locked out after failing the power-on self test microcode. This is commonly mistaken for a toasted power supply. Check the back of the chassis at the rear of the power supply. There should be 3 connectors. One is the power controller input, another is the power controller output. These can be ignored. The third connector is for a battery backup unit. Unless you have the battery backup unit connected by its cable, you need to jumper some pins to get your machine to power up correctly. "R. D. Davis" wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, jos.mar wrote: > > The above might be avaliable ( with some peripherals ) : it is worth saving ? > > If it's what I think it is, the answer is: yes! Grab it; nice find! > > > I could not find too much info in the net . Around 1980's I assume. > > I don't even know if it is a mini or if it is microprocessr based... > > My HP-1000 is a mini with blinkenlights/switches... well, they would > be blinkenlights if the PSU was alive and enabling their > blinkability. :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spc at conman.org Wed Jul 18 18:52:39 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: OT: Virii In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 18, 2001 09:26:04 PM Message-ID: <200107182352.TAA11459@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > My guess (never having seen this virus, and certainly never having > written a virus) is that the code is not 0 bytes long (for the obvious > reason), but that it overwrites some bytes in the files it infects rather > than addting itself to the file, so the file remains the same size. > > So the _change_ in file size is 0 bytes. > > Of course this there is real virus code in the infected file, NAV can > detect that particular byte pattern. > > And maybe because it overwrites part of the file, information from the > file is lost, which is why the file can't be disinfected I used to do a lot of assembly programming under MS-DOS and I found that if I did ;******************************************** segment para public 'DATA' some_value dw 34 some_string db 'Hello there',0 some_buffer db 4096 dup(0) end segment ;******************************************** That when that particular segment was assembled, the amount of space it took up in the executable was 5,010 bytes---the large areas of 0 filled space wouldn't be compressed at all! And in looking over other executables (ones from Microsoft, others from elsewhere) revealed huge portions of executable files nothing but zeros. There was no compression done of at least the data segment. So it would be easy enough for a virus to scan the executable for a portion that is nothing but zeros, and hide in there. -spc (Figure this might be on topic since it's been 10 years or so since I've done MS-DOS assembly programming 8-) From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 18:57:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: Message-ID: <002b01c10fe5$6fd2d4e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, I've had the sense I was missing something in your description of how the 6845 supports the precise location of the pixel at which you want, say, to start a line. While I agree with your description below, I have a problem tying that to the notion of somewhat larger blocks to which you alluded earlier in the thread. I have no doubt you know what you mean, but I'm being a mite dense here and would like to understand your interpretation of how the 6845 helps to resolve the location beyond the +/- 1 CCLK level. It seems to me that if you use, say, a '590 counter, as I suggested earlier might be a decent enough device to use for counting pixels in whatever length (up to 256 bits/pixels per word), and use that same light pen strobe that triggers the 6845 to latch the location of the current memory word, there's still an uncertainty of one word in where that pixel count lies. I suppose one could experimentally determine it, but I don't know how reliable that would be, owing to the variation in threshold levels at the light pen, and the speed of its response. I suppose that one could use carefully biased photosensors and fast comparators to accomplish the detection but I'm not convinced that ambient lighting and variations in screen intensity, depending on how long the CRT has been run that day, etc, wouldn't have a greater effect than all that careful tuning. It seems to me that there's risk that under some extreme circumstances the light pen strobe would occur earlier/later by a count or two than under others at the other extreme. Moreover, it could be off by just half a count, in which case uncertainty still persists. Given, say, a pixel clock of 16 MHz (pretty slow for high-res, but typical for the '80's) you'd have to have a damn-fast amplifier or comparator to generate a light pen strobe that would register the last pixel in a word before the CRTC registered the next address. OTOH, if it were the first pixel in the next word, a compensation scheme might break down, particularly since there's risk the pixel might be dimmer than the one just previous because it's not yet been refreshed since the last frame. The problem has been solved, though, hasn't it? I'm just curious as to how. The reason I'm being so dense is that I allowed myself to be persuaded back in the late-'70's-early '80's that the light pen register was not of as much use as originally intended and that a pixel counter run from the high-speed timing would make the software burden less trouble. That way all one had to track was the scan line number in the 6845 and the value in the pixel counter. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > > > > What's got me wondering here is that the 6845 has a minimal resolution of one > > character width, typically 8 bits. It has an upper limit on count rate, and > > between that and the dot clock frequency, you get an upper limit on the number > > of pixels per line for every frequency of character clock. > > Well, your video memory and shift registers can be as wide as you like. > Suppose the maximum speed of the 6845 is x MHz. Then if you have 8-bit > memory (1 bit/pixel) you have a pixel rate of 8x MHz. If you have 32 bit > memory, 32x MHz, and so on. > > > > > Now, I haven't looked at the 6845 spec for a couple of decades, (It was new > > then.) but IIRC, the minimal resolution of the value in the light pen register > > is the character clock, which is the dot clock DIV pixels-per-character. > > > > You can, of course, draw whatever you want in the video refresh RAM, but I'm not > > clear on how this process works in conjunction with the function of the 6845. > > > > Could you tie those two together, plz? > > I really don't see what the problem is here. > > You have a 6845. The function of the 6845 is to generate video RAM > addresses and sync pulses. The address produced by the 6845 selects a > particular location in video memory. External logic then turns the > contents of that location in memory to a bit stream to send to the > monitor. Each location in video memory corresponds (in general) to > several pixels on the screen. > > The 6845 has another function. It accepts the light pen signal. When it > gets that signal, it latches the video address. And lets the software > read it out. So the software then knows that the light pen is pointing at > one of the pixels corresponding to that location in video memory. But not > which particular pixel it is. > > However, presumably the logic that turns memory words into pixels knows > which pixel within the word is being sent to the monitor at a given time. > So, a little extra logic added here can cause the light pen signal to > latch this information and allow it to be read by software. > > So, when you have a light pen event, the software reads 2 things > > From the 6845 it gets the information that the light pen is somewhere > over pixels 48-55 of line 27 on the screen (say) > > From the word->pixels hardware it gets the information that the light pen > is over the pixel corresponding to bit 3 of a memory word (I'll assume > LSBs are displayed first). > > Combining those 2 facts, the software knows that the light pen is over > pixel (51,27). > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 19:00:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit Microprocessor training kit? References: Message-ID: <003d01c10fe5$c75d6a40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> For about a year there was one sitting in the back room (surplus) at the Denver Gateway Electronics store, overpriced at $40. They show up from time to time. There's a Heathkit Logic Analyzer there now, IIRC, not to mention an old HP model. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael L Wood (S)" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 5:25 PM Subject: where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit Microprocessor training kit? > I'm interested, where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit > Microprocessor training kit? > > Thanks if you can reply! > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 18:51:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 In-Reply-To: <00f501c10fe0$a76cc960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jul 18, 1 07:23:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1042 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010719/1bf8c716/attachment.ksh From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Jul 18 19:14:17 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors In-Reply-To: <200107182000.f6IK0GW30504@narnia.int.dittman.net> from Eric Dittman at "Jul 18, 2001 03:00:16 pm" Message-ID: <200107190014.RAA23720@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > My take on learning microprocessors: > > 1) Pick a reasonable processor. An 8085, Z80, > 6502, or 680x is reasonable. A Pentium III is > not. 1a) Get a copy of the book "From Chips to Systems" by Rodnay Zaks. > 2) Read the data sheets. .... Other steps unmodified... From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 18 17:09:15 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo "Re: (OT) Sgi Indy" (Jul 18, 21:56) References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995482603.3b55dbeb5a55e@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 21:56, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > Quoting Pete Turnbull : > > > On the subject of NeXTs, how do you get a NeXT to use standard files > > (/etc/hosts, et al) instead of the netinfo stuff? > What you may want to read is chapter 10 (Incorporating a NeXT Computer > into a Mixed Network) from NeXT Network and System Administration. Available > on paper back and probably on your system disk as well. I'll have a look for that. Any idea where I'd find it? I don't have any paper manuals, but I do have several CDs. > Man-pages on niload and nidump might help too. Honestly, I never remember > how to do it so I just improvise and create a local NI hierarchy and > use DNS for name resolution. I read them, and realised they didn't tell me enough, mainly because I don't understand the rest of it. > The chapter did mention NIS (yp) so that *might* be an option. No, NIS is *never* an option ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 18 17:03:29 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: "r. 'bear' stricklin" "Re: (OT) Sgi Indy" (Jul 18, 13:24) References: Message-ID: <10107182303.ZM10812@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 13:24, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > What's special about the RAM for a Sparcstation 5 ? > > They're 5 volt, buffered, parity DIMMs. The only popular system that used > 5 volt buffered DIMMs were the old PowerMacs, which don't use parity. > > Even beyond that, there's something else about them. I tried using > SPARCstation 5 DIMMs in my Apple Network Server (also wanting 5 volt > buffered parity DIMMs) and the ANS completely refused to see them. That > was disappointing since SS5 RAM is infinitely more abundant, but oh well. > I haven't tried the reverse test yet (whether ANS RAM will work in the > SS5). Ah, I see. I had assumed they were SIMMS, but I'd never opened up a SS5. How many pins on the DIMMs? And I see there was some prolonged discussion about the right DIMMs to use in Sunblades, on the Sun newsgroups recently. They seem to be a bit of a minefield. I know the ones SGI use in, eg O2s, are "odd" as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 18 17:06:35 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: OT: Coke/Pepsi (was: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" "OT: Coke/Pepsi (was: Apple II for intro to microprocessors" (Jul 18, 11:21) References: Message-ID: <10107182306.ZM10816@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 11:21, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Shortly after that, the U.S.A. and USSR (CCCP) normalized diplomatic > relations enough to import vodka and export Pepsi to Russia. Definitely OT: one of my prized T-shirts is a Russian Pepsi one :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 18 19:13:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <002b01c10fe5$6fd2d4e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 18, 1 05:57:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5476 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010719/d3a3e70f/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 18 20:33:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ? In-Reply-To: <3B54ADF2.CA22B351@cybertheque.org> Message-ID: <421.600T2300T1536089optimus@canit.se> Michael Grigoni skrev: >Thanks to those who replied; finding foreign postal information >on the 'net is not easy. If it's an industrialised country, it's usually a matter of going to the relevant post office web pages. For the UK, that would be http://www.parcelforce.co.uk/, IIRC. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r det enda reciproka pronomen vi har. From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 18 19:38:35 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > +AD4- J +AD0- tolerance (which I can't remember, 10+ACU-?) > > > > Don't eliminate +ACI-Joule+ACI- from consideration. > > Seems like it would be one useful measure of > > a Cap. (Uhhhh, Tony?) > > Not really. While capacitors do store energy (measured in joules), the > energy stores is 0.5*C*V^2. So to know the energy stored in a capacitor, > you have to know the voltage. I have never seen a capacitor rated in > joules (meaning the amount of energy that can be stored at the maximum > working voltage of the capacitor) although it might makes sense for > things like photoflash capacitors. > > One other unit we can discount is the 'jar'. This is actually a unit of > capacitance, IIRC, 1 jar = 1/900 uF. It was used by the (British) Royal > Navy (amongst others) until the mid 1930's IIRC. I have a few books which > give capacitor values in jars. Perhaps so named in deference to Leyden's original jar capacitor? - don > I think, though that on any piece of computer hardware it's safe to > assume the capacitors will be marked in some fraction of the farad and > the resistors marked in some multiple of the ohm. > > -tony > > From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 18 20:43:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1431.600T1650T1635383optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> >Ok, my mind is still blown. How does a light-pen drawing program work >> >then? (Or is a light-pen drawing program not possible?) >> >> The only light pen I've worked with is the Vectrex pen. And while a vector >> screen differs somewhat from a CRT (it's non-linear, which doesn't help >Eh? First of all, I'm sorry, I realised after dispatching that message that I had written "CRT", when what I meant was "raster screen". >For one thing, a vector display uses a CRT (and the Vectrex certainly >does, I have one, and I've been inside it often enough), and for another, >what are you suggesting is non-linear about a vector display. Any >reasonable vector display has very linear X and Y amplifiers. What's non-linear about a vector screen is that the beam doesn't move in any particular pattern. >> decoding), the drawing program simply projected a dot on the screen, which >> was moved using the pen. IOW, the dot was registered by the pen, and >> placing the >It's a long time since I've used the Vectrex lightpen, but I seem to >remember it sweeping a line across the screen and then down the screen >(or maybe the reverse) to determine where the lightpen must be if it >'lost' it. That's nice. Did you ever figure out how to use it for anything else than drawing a big umbrella? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 18 19:44:53 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit Microprocessor training kit? In-Reply-To: Re: where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit Microprocessor training kit? (Richard Erlacher) References: <003d01c10fe5$c75d6a40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15190.11653.624545.642303@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 18, Richard Erlacher wrote: > For about a year there was one sitting in the back room (surplus) at the Denver > Gateway Electronics store, overpriced at $40. Overpriced at $40? I had two, sold one on eBay for $200.00 a year or so ago. I'd pay $40 for one quite readily even if they didn't have such a high resale value...they're just *cool*. :-) > They show up from time to time. There's a Heathkit Logic Analyzer there now, > IIRC, not to mention an old HP model. Really? What models might they be? -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 18 19:46:49 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: Re: (OT) Sgi Indy (Pete Turnbull) References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995482603.3b55dbeb5a55e@mail.er-grp.com> <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <15190.11769.874364.895405@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 18, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > The chapter did mention NIS (yp) so that *might* be an option. > > No, NIS is *never* an option ;-) BRAVO!! -Dave McGuire From claudew at videotron.ca Wed Jul 18 19:58:58 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Seeking Mark Gregory??? Message-ID: <022101c10fed$fe89e400$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> I sent Mark Gregory a large quantity of Amiga Worlds about a month ago and he was to send me a Amiga 1200 for my collection. No news I a long while. He also offered some books on here IIRC. Anybody talked to this person recently? Thanks Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Wed Jul 18 20:10:49 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Light Pens Message-ID: <3B563399.F320DCC@chartermi.net> Wow, I feel like I've contributed something here. I started a long running thread that didn't involve the 4th of July or gun control! Ok, forget the dry humor. Thank you all, now I know more about light pens than I would have imagined possible. The $65536 question now is, how do I get a hold of one? I'd like to try it on my 6845 video controller based machine (PCjr CGA). I'm willing to learn to solder if necessary. :-) From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 18 20:37:36 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: OT: Virii In-Reply-To: <200107182352.TAA11459@conman.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > some_buffer db 4096 dup(0) > end segment That EXPLICITLY calls for 4K of 0's. Virtually no assembler is clever enough to do a run-length compression. OTOH, If you wrote some_buffer db 4096 dup (?) it would set up 4K of "UNINITIALIZED" space, which it COULD compress out of the file, particularly if it is at the end. > . . . So it would be easy enough for a virus to scan the > executable for a portion that is nothing but zeros, and hide in there. It could always make space within the MICROS~1 copyright message. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vaxman at qwest.net Wed Jul 18 20:36:37 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: OT: Virii In-Reply-To: <118.1ce28aa.28865e04@aol.com> Message-ID: The zero byte length probably means the length of the infected file changes by zero bytes... IE it overwrites some bits of the program. Clint On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > OT, yes (maybe some virii are >10 years old??) but related to programming in > general. Plus, if no one on this list knows the answer, then there probably > *isn't* an answer ;>) > > I received a virus in an e-mail attachment a few minutes ago. The sender is > a wholesale supplier I'm acquainted with. NAV spotted the > "W32.Magistr.corrupt" virus, could not repair the infected item, and asked > for permission to delete the item, which I granted. > > I looked this virus up in the list of 50K+ virii that NAV currently claims to > cover. No information was available, except that this virus is rare, it > infects .exe files, and it is zero bytes in length. > > Now, I've cranked out a couple of boatloads of code over the last 19 years, > and the smallest useful program I ever wrote was 3 bytes in length. It's > easy enough to create a zero byte file, but as far as I can tell such a file > can't *do* anything. > > How can I write a zero-byte program? How does NAV identify this virus if > it's zero bytes in length? What real threat to my PC is an e-mail-propagated > virus of length zero? > > WTF??? > > TIA, > > Glen > 0/0 > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 22:06:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... References: Message-ID: <003201c11000$97cca460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Light Pens ... > > > > Well, I've had the sense I was missing something in your description of how the > > 6845 supports the precise location of the pixel at which you want, say, to start > > a line. While I agree with your description below, I have a problem tying that > > to the notion of somewhat larger blocks to which you alluded earlier in the > > thread. I have no doubt you know what you mean, but I'm being a mite dense here > > and would like to understand your interpretation of how the 6845 helps to > > resolve the location beyond the +/- 1 CCLK level. > > OK... _Again_... > > The 6845 tells the software which memory word was being displayed when > the light pen strobe occured. Actually I am simplifying this -- it tells > you the address of the memory word which was being read out and sent to > the video pipeline when the light pen strobe occurs. That is not > neccessarily the same thing, but the 'error' (in terms of the dot clock > cycles) will be constant and so can be corrected for by software. > This is all perfectly clear, and well described in the data sheet. However, the threshold at which the light pen recognizes a pixel (since it presumably can't recognize an un-pixel) can vary for the reasons I pointed out previously, > > Therefore the 6845 will tell you which group of 8 (or whatever) pixels > had the lightpen pointed at it. 8 horizontally adjacent pixels, of course. > > You now need some extra hardware (the '590 counter, for example) that > counts the pixels being displayed from that memory word. Again there > might be some (contant) offset between the counter value and the actual > pixel being sent to the CRT, but that, again, can be corrected for in > software. > > So, when you get a light pen event you read 2 things. The 6845's light > pen registers and the '590 value. > > The former might tell you that the light pen is somewhere over pixels > 80-87 of row 74 on the screen. The latter may tell you that you're over > pixel 4 in the word. So the light pen is pointing at pixel (84,74). > > > > > > It seems to me that if you use, say, a '590 counter, as I suggested earlier > > might be a decent enough device to use for counting pixels in whatever length > > (up to 256 bits/pixels per word), and use that same light pen strobe that > > triggers the 6845 to latch the location of the current memory word, there's > > Sure... > > > still an uncertainty of one word in where that pixel count lies. I suppose one > > Why? If you're thinking of the fact that there's the pipeline delay, so > what. It's constant. Maybe the '590 does read '2' just as the video > address changes, but that's easy to correct for. It's a constant offset. > No, it's got nothng to do with the pipeline delays, as they're a constant. The response of the photosensor isn't, though. The response of most photosensors available in the '70's was quite mushy as compared with a crisp 16 MHz clock. I'm curious how one deals with the variation in light level depending on the influence of ambient lighting, variation in illumination of the pixels on different parts of the screen, and, of course, the influence of system noise, on the performance of the comparator or amplifier that processes the signal from whatever photodetctor the light pen uses. Any variation can cause the perceived location of the pixel in question to be in error, not just by a pixel or two, but by a word either way, depending on the end of the word at which the subject pixel resides. It's certainly not safe to assume that the offset between the signal arriving at the 6845 from the light pen will be shifted in phase from the optical event by less than a pixel width, particularly if the pixels are modulated with the dot clock, as they were in the MOT system I once examined. With a light-pen-dedicated CPU, e.g the one in the MOT system, I can see how they might have done it, but I don't see how the 6845 was precisely synchronized enough to be particularly helpful in the horizontal timing. While it's likely that the 6845 will catch the right word if the pixel is at the middle of the word, it seems quite risky to assume that it is within the right word if it's a pixel or two from either end. Clearly it's been dealt with, but I still don't see how the uncertainty in phase between the incidence of the illuminated pixel and the one just turned on is managed. Back in the '70's, an LM310 was considered quite a fast op-amp, and it offered, IIRC, a 10 MHz gain-bandwidth product. Maybe an LH0032 would have done the job, or something even costlier. I just have a problem envisioning the analog tools of the time being fast enough to get the job done. > If, on the other hand, you've got some kind of race condition in the > logic so it's not clear when the light pen signal arrives, well, you need > to design it properly. It is not hard to synchronise the light pen signal > to the dot clock, for example. > It's not races that concern me, but rather the variation in response time of the photosensor to the available light. Since the pixels occur at the rate at which they're spewed forth from the high-speed timing logic, there should be some syncrhonization between when they occur on the CRT. The different levels of room lighting would cause variation in the differential level seen by the photosensor, though. It seems to me that the software runs the risk of oscillating between two or more locations if the light pen can't be relied on to respond in just a handful of nanoseconds. > > > could experimentally determine it, but I don't know how reliable that would be, > > owing to the variation in threshold levels at the light pen, and the speed of > > its response. I suppose that one could use carefully biased photosensors and > > fast comparators to accomplish the detection but I'm not convinced that ambient > > lighting and variations in screen intensity, depending on how long the CRT has > > been run that day, etc, wouldn't have a greater effect than all that careful > > tuning. It seems to me that there's risk that under some extreme circumstances > > the light pen strobe would occur earlier/later by a count or two than under > > others at the other extreme. Moreover, it could be off by just half a count, in > > THis is a different problem, and one that I agree exists. > > Until now you've been saying that a 6845 can only tell you the address of > the word in video memory, not the pixel position within that word. This > is true, but as I've hopefully explained, a little extra hardware will > give you that extra information. What this gives you is a system that can > tall you the pixel that was being displayed when the light pen strobe > arrived. This is a nice, simple digital system that can be made to work > every time. > Yes, and we're in complete agreement on the details relating to how that happens. However, ... > > The other problem is the light pen itself, along with the CRT. Can they > be made to give a pulse that uniquely identifys a pixel. This is partly > an optical problem (focusing a single pixel onto the phototransistor, > partly a CRT phosphor problem (Does the light pen pulse occur cleaning > just as that pixel is hit by the electron beam -- I hope it is obvious > that we make the digital circuits triggered by the leading edge of the > light pen pulse), partly an analogue electronics problem (the > amplifier/comparator for the light pen phototransistor), and so on. > > My view is that this is the difficult part, and that most light pens > don't have anything like that sort of performance. I would guess that > most of them will identify something about the size of a character cell > (an 8*8 region of pixels) on the screen. > My point, exactly! However, THEY (whoever that was) managed somehow to get quite precise resolution within a single pixel, and not at tremendous expense. That's what puzzles me. Fast op-amps like the LH0032 were being used in pretty demanding systems like the barcode scanners used in grocery stores, but they (the barcode scanners) had MUCH higher contrast gradients, and their spectral response was tightly controlled. > > In which case it's probably not worth adding the extra digital > electronics. > > But if the light pen is capable of resolving single pixels, then the > 6845+logic will tell you which pixel it's just detected. > Yes, but what about the variations in ambient lighting? Those move the differential thresholds around. > > > The reason I'm being so dense is that I allowed myself to be persuaded back in > > the late-'70's-early '80's that the light pen register was not of as much use as > > originally intended and that a pixel counter run from the high-speed timing > > would make the software burden less trouble. That way all one had to track was > > the scan line number in the 6845 and the value in the pixel counter. > > Err, isn't that what I've been talking about all along? OK, I'm using the > 6845 for part of the pixel address within the line, but there's no reason > why that can't work either... > Yes! and that's what I still believe to be difficult to make work because of the uncertainty in light pen response timing. If you use external logic to do the horizontal timing, then the problem's solved, with the exception of that uncertainty, but since you externally count the entire scan line, the 6845 hasn't helped with the horizontal part. You gate the auxiliary counter with the display enable and latch it with the light pen strobe. That's clear. However, resolving the resulting differential timing between the edge within the 6845 and the edge outside essentially necessitates one ignore all the horizontal data the 6845 provides, doesn't it? After all, the worst-case circumstances call the validity of the word address into question, since the external edge and internal one aren't precisely synchronized with the CCLK. Maybe I'm being too much of a grandma with these details, but I remember wrestling with these details some back in '79-'80, and finding them quite difficult. IIRC, if one used the fastest op amp, the fastest photosensor, and modulated the horizontal scan with the dot clock so as to avoid the difference between old and new pixels, (that way they're always new), you could get the light pen resolution down to about +/- 15 ns, which was quite fast, but that would have cost a pretty penny. It's certainly clear that the mouse offered a cheaper alternative. > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 22:10:05 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit Microprocessor training kit? References: <003d01c10fe5$c75d6a40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <15190.11653.624545.642303@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <003301c11000$98960ee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't recall, but their phone number is (303) 458-5444. Ask for Mike. I only remember the Heathkit trainer because it was gone Saturday before last after being there for the better part of a year. I'd been trying to persuade Mike to put it up on eBay himself, but they don't even have internet access at Gateway. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:44 PM Subject: Re: where did you happen to 'pick up' that heathkit Microprocessor training kit? > On July 18, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > For about a year there was one sitting in the back room (surplus) at the Denver > > Gateway Electronics store, overpriced at $40. > > Overpriced at $40? I had two, sold one on eBay for $200.00 a > year or so ago. I'd pay $40 for one quite readily even if they didn't > have such a high resale value...they're just *cool*. :-) > > > They show up from time to time. There's a Heathkit Logic Analyzer there now, > > IIRC, not to mention an old HP model. > > Really? What models might they be? > > -Dave McGuire > > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 18 22:38:51 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Superbrain and Altair Message-ID: <002001c11004$68be2550$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Today I have received a hint that there is a Superbrain available for the right price and another mentioning an altair, with modem and manuals. I've seen Altairs on E-bay but not a superbrain, what would be fair offers for these? Also, does anyone know of newer kits similar to the altair or mark-8. I found 1 advertised as a computer kit and it consisted of a mother board, video card, drives, PS and case and you put them together. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Jul 18 21:57:54 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: OT: Virii In-Reply-To: References: <200107182352.TAA11459@conman.org> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010718225754.0157e588@obregon.multi.net.co> Yes, but contiguous 0's are special and easy enough to detect, and, it would not be difficult for the assembler to include some initialization code. In the end, this is a difference in philosophy, asm vs. higher level languages. You don't expect an assembler to optimize that sort of thing, but rather, to do exactly as it is told. Now, I remember when g77 would actually include the image of a zero-initialized array within a common block in the executable.... at one point I had a 130MB executable :-) . This is the opposite case, a high-level language not optimizing that sort of thing. Carlos. At 06:37 PM 7/18/01 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: >> some_buffer db 4096 dup(0) >> end segment > >That EXPLICITLY calls for 4K of 0's. >Virtually no assembler is clever enough to do a run-length compression. >OTOH, If you wrote > some_buffer db 4096 dup (?) >it would set up 4K of "UNINITIALIZED" space, which it COULD compress out >of the file, particularly if it is at the end. > >> . . . So it would be easy enough for a virus to scan the >> executable for a portion that is nothing but zeros, and hide in there. >It could always make space within the MICROS~1 copyright message. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 18 23:51:51 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: Message-ID: <001201c1100e$866c0fe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Say ... Which Apple OS is the ][e supposed to run? I have checked out that IIe and it appears to work OK, but I've not yet found a bootable diskette. Does it run the same DOS as the ][+? If this stuff all works OK it won't be such a bad deal, now, will it? Apparently the ][e uses a serial printer. Perhaps I should have looked around for that. It uses a wierd PS/2-like connector to communicate with the thing. Dick From wrking at dadaboom.com Thu Jul 19 00:16:40 2001 From: wrking at dadaboom.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes Message-ID: I recently acquired a load of 9 track tapes from eBay. What a deal, I only paid 1 cent for a trunk load of tapes. In there, I found an original DEC RSX11M+ (3.0) distribution, several DECUS RSX SIG tapes from the fall of 1981 to the spring of 1987 and a bunch of other miscellaneous tapes! I put a list of most of the tapes up on my www site: http://www.dadaboom.com/pdp11/software/tapes.html . If copies are not available elsewhere, I was planning on duping the RSX SIG tapes and putting them up on my www site. I won't be putting the RSX distribution online due to the copyright infringement problems :-( Now the questions 1.) Would having the tapes on-line be useful? 2.) If so, what's the best way to dup them and make them available for download? I have a PDP-11 running RT-11 (v5.03) and a uVAX-III running VMS v5.5. I can hook my 9 track tape drive (TS05) up to either of them. I'd bet VMS would be the better bet, but I'm not sure about the best way to dup them so that they would be useful for the rest of the world. Help would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill From fernande at internet1.net Thu Jul 19 00:32:44 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: More freebies in Michigan (PC based, mainly) Message-ID: <3B5670FC.D9033D2@internet1.net> Hello Everyone, I have more free stuff here in Michigan, plus some that I didn't get rid of last time. As of now, everything that I have promised people has been shipped. If I promised you something and you haven't been told a shipping cost and that it is on its way, please email me. I did have one guy that I couldn't seem to get an email through to. I am advertising these items as free, but I ask that you would reimburse me for shipping. Also please reply off list, as this will be going out to 2 or 3 lists. This stuff probably won't interest Rescue very much, but I figured it couldn't hurt to send it anyway. -NEC IDE cd-rom model CDR-272 (4X, I think) -generic serial mouse (9pin) -paperwork for old Hercules Graphics Plus... looks brand new, has floppy disk too. I bought what was supposed to be the Hercules card on Ebay, turned out someone had simply stuck there old card in the Hercules box. Maybe someone with the card might want the manuals? -Sled for Optical drive for IBM 3510 external case, brand new -sound card/modem from Packard Bell computer. I don't know how fast the modem is, but I thought Linux or maybe even Win95 might detect the sound card chip set. Could be a real cheap way to add sound to your computer. I see Aztech and Crystal chips, if that means anything. -Teac 1.2 meg floppy drive, model FD-55GFR, These drives are great if you need to read and write to 360K floppies. I haven't had too much trouble doing that, and I have always attributed it to the quality of the Teac drives I use. -GraphiCard by Practical Peripherals for the Apple // series. I think it is some sort of parallel card. no documentation or cables, just the card. -3.5" 1.44meg floppy by Panasonic (white face, but whole thing could use a cleaning) -Astec PS/2 power supply, 150 watts, This is out of a Packard Bell, but the only thing I have heard these referred to is PS/2 style. I don't know why, as I have never seen real PS/2 use a power supply like this. It has a remote power switch and 4 drive power leads. Looks pretty standard for a newer, but not ATX, clone box. -white power cord -2 IDE cables, 40 pin, one long, one short, pretty generic -floppy cable, controller end is a header type connector as is the last floppy connector. The middle connector is the edge type. -AC adapter for US Robotics Courier modem, output is 20 volts! -external 3.5" drive for Apple //gs or I think Mac. Model# A9M0106 It's clean but a little beat up. -Digital (Yes, as in DEC) "Full Video Elite" 16-bit ISA card for Mpeg Playback practically new, in the original box has all software, manuals, etc. I bought this at a computer show when it was already "obsolete". I tried it out on my hoped up 386, but decided I didn't really want it. It tried about 3 times to sell it on Ebay, but nobody would bid. Then all of a sudden I saw a flood of them on Ebay going for next to nothing if at all. I'm just tired of it sitting around! While using it I did notice some interference in the video, I think the pass-through cable may need shielding or something. -black power cable -baby AT 286 motherboard, has Harris 20mhz chip, uses 30-pin simms, have 4megs installed, 8 ISA slots, AMI bios, PC Chips chip set, will include extra simms but am unsure of condition of extras. Board has never been installed, but I did test it before putting it on Ebay. Didn't sell obviously. I thought about making a little system out of it to use as a terminal for my MicroVax 3400, but decided I don't need another PC. -IBM serial/parallel board from IBM AT, uses 16450N uart chip, 8-bit ISA. This isn't a cheap generic board. It's real IBM hardware. -some sort of IBM memory board, has serial and parallel ports, 16-bit ISA, uses 30-pin simms. I never got it to work, I don't know exactly what kind of simms it uses either. I stuck some simms from a PS/2 Model 60 in it. It might need software too. Real IBM not generic -full height face plate for Seagate ST-225, I think -5.25" DD floppies, almost new or new. Not sure how many I'll let go, maybe 20 to 25. -springy contacts from the back of an Apple //e case, not sure exactly which case... they changed it over the years. It's 10.75 inches long, if that helps. -Microchannel MFM drive controller FRU 6127874B, I think it's the older one. It's from a Model 60 -Microchannel Adaptec 1640, I think this one is fried, I couldn't get it to work, but maybe you want the slot cover or bios chips? -SMC Microchannel Arcnet card -Arco Electronics Microchannel IDE card -2 Suncom Microchannel game cards. I bought these through Ebay, NIB. They don't seem to work with my Reply Corporation Planer, However. They don't use an ADF file either. -Seagate Cabo ST3541A (CFS541A) It's IDE, but some IDE controllers won't see it... don't know why. 540megs -2 Miniscribe Model 8425F RLL I believe. -uSpeed Fast88, I guess this is an accelerator of some sort for an 8088 system. I got it with a clone PC or XT system. Plugs into MB in relay socket. -STB video card, MVP2X, dual head card, Tseng Labs chip sets, 16-bit ISA -ISA IDE and I/O card, almost new, I bought it from Walmart for my first CD-ROM (32x, to give you an idea of it's age). It's in the box and has the instructions, 16-bit ISA. -3 Winchester drive controllers, RLL I think. 2 have floppy ports that can't be disabled, one has no floppy port. Neat cards, I have one in my socket 7 system because I blew the MB floppy controller out :-) 16-bit ISA, and I have an instruction sheet I can make copies of. -Still have the TIPC (Texas Instruments Professional Computer) No monitor, keyboard, or OS. -IBM PS/2 Model 9577, probably about 24megs of ram, 400meg HD, XGA2 card, both floppies, clean. -Adaptec 2742W EISA wide SCSI card, but has no slot cover. I bought a generic one, but it didn't have the hole in the correct spot. I have heard it isn't to hard to make one using a drill press and a file, with a blank cover. Please help me clean up my apartment :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Jul 19 00:52:57 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995482603.3b55dbeb5a55e@mail.er-grp.com> <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <995521977.3b5675b9e09cc@mail.er-grp.com> Quoting Pete Turnbull : > On Jul 18, 21:56, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > > I'll have a look for that. Any idea where I'd find it? I don't have > any > paper manuals, but I do have several CDs. If you install the whole shebang (at least on 3.3) you get the documentation library in (I don't remember) /NextLibrary/something. It doesn't matter because the bookshelf-files are in /NextLibrary/BookShelves/. Just double click on SysAdmin.bshlf. > > > Man-pages on niload and nidump might help too. Honestly, I never > remember > > how to do it so I just improvise and create a local NI hierarchy and > > use DNS for name resolution. > > I read them, and realised they didn't tell me enough, mainly because I > don't understand the rest of it. niload is just a helper for loading text-based configuration files into the NetInfo DB. nidump does the same in reverse. Misc. link: http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1060.htmld/1060.html > > > The chapter did mention NIS (yp) so that *might* be an option. > > No, NIS is *never* an option ;-) > Heh :) I'm sometimes ready to put NI into same category but that's probably just because I have one (or two, if you count white boxes) NeXT(s). NI would probably kick ass in an installation with something like 100 machines. I must admit that NetInfo can be quite confusing and I can screw up a machine pretty easily with it. -- jht From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jul 19 00:45:30 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Superbrain and Altair References: <002001c11004$68be2550$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <00ab01c11016$08198660$5427b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > Today I have received a hint that there is a Superbrain > available for the right price and another mentioning an > altair, with modem and manuals. > > I've seen Altairs on E-bay but not a superbrain, what would > be fair offers for these? > A working Superbrain II in the original box sold for about $150.00 two years ago on Ebay. Haven't seen one since. Price might have been depressed by the fact that the unit was in Alaska and the seller was predicting $75-100 to ship to the lower 48. I saved some pictures of the Superbrain II, inside and out -- let me know if you want them posted. From jweder at telusplanet.com Thu Jul 19 00:51:38 2001 From: jweder at telusplanet.com (Joel Weder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors In-Reply-To: <200107182211.RAA80391@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Hey Eric... Yes, it'd be great to put together a learning system that way, IF the person had the skill and determination to pull it off. This very scenario is why I suggested (back on Sunday I think) that a good way to go would be to pick up a 68HC11 Evaluation Board (EVBU or EVM). My EVBU (which is currently built into a little robot) already HAS: - serial port - monitor & assembler/disassembler program (Buffalo) - 1k EEPROM - wire wrap area - real-time clock - assembler & download software - five ports: A - pulse counters or general I/O B - parallel output or address selection if using ext. RAM/ROM C - parallel I/O or address/data port if using ext. RAM/ROM D - two comm ports or general I/O E - eight analog inputs or general inputs Joel A. Weder jweder@telusplanet.net 403-556-4020 From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jul 19 01:07:45 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: OT: Virii In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010718225754.0157e588@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <20010719010256.K31544-100000@localhost> On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Carlos Murillo wrote: > Yes, but contiguous 0's are special and easy enough to detect, > and, it would not be difficult for the assembler to include > some initialization code. Yup. Stick the virus in there, and alter the file header's notion of the entry point to be the virus text. The virus does its dirty work when the binary is run and then jumps to the real text, -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jul 19 01:34:14 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors In-Reply-To: from "Joel Weder" at Jul 18, 2001 11:51:38 PM Message-ID: <200107190634.f6J6YE803138@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Yes, it'd be great to put together a learning system that way, IF the person > had the skill and determination to pull it off. This very scenario is why I > suggested (back on Sunday I think) that a good way to go would be to pick up > a 68HC11 Evaluation Board (EVBU or EVM). My EVBU (which is currently built > into a little robot) already HAS: > - serial port > - monitor & assembler/disassembler program (Buffalo) > - 1k EEPROM > - wire wrap area > - real-time clock > - assembler & download software > - five ports: > A - pulse counters or general I/O > B - parallel output or address selection if using ext. RAM/ROM > C - parallel I/O or address/data port if using ext. RAM/ROM > D - two comm ports or general I/O > E - eight analog inputs or general inputs But if you have everything already done for you do you learn the basics? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 19 01:16:21 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 18, 1 10:03:48 am Message-ID: >> Number (3) seems like really bad form, making a circuit that depends on the >> processor running at some specific rate. Much better to write code that is >> "aware" of the processor speed and compensates for it. > >How do you propose measuring the CPU speed? You always need _some_ timing >reference of a known frequency (for example, one way is to see how many >simple loops you can run between mains frequency interrupts, but you then >need to know the mains frequency). And it adds complexity to the system. > >For embedded controllers it's very common to write the code for a >particular clock crystal frequency and be done with it. Particularly for >things like bit-banged serial I/O. A number of my listings start with >comments like 'PIC 16C84 processor clocked at 4MHz' or whatever. That works for me, and the next line would define some constant with a value that I interpret to be 4 MHz within my code. That way when a new chip comes out that supports 6 or 8 mhz, and I need more processing power the design is easily updated. All this could fall into the great grey area of personal style, but very often when I work on a project some specific direction seems much more "right" than others. Sometimes I can explain my point of view, others times I just know it even if I don't have a clue exactly why. From hansp at aconit.org Thu Jul 19 01:41:57 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes References: Message-ID: <3B568135.9C868DE6@aconit.org> William King wrote: > I recently acquired a load of 9 track tapes from eBay. What a deal, I only > paid 1 cent for a trunk load of tapes. In there, I found an original DEC > RSX11M+ (3.0) distribution, several DECUS RSX SIG tapes from the fall of > 1981 to the spring of 1987 and a bunch of other miscellaneous tapes! > > I put a list of most of the tapes up on my www site: > http://www.dadaboom.com/pdp11/software/tapes.html . > > If copies are not available elsewhere, I was planning on duping the RSX SIG > tapes and putting them up on my www site. I won't be putting the RSX > distribution online due to the copyright infringement problems :-( There is a large archive of DEC related software at http://trailing-edge.com You might consider makng your tapes available there also. > Now the questions > 1.) Would having the tapes on-line be useful? > 2.) If so, what's the best way to dup them and make them available for > download? Tim Shoppa at trailing-edge has this problem solved. Regards, -- HBP From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 01:48:49 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:52 2005 Subject: DEC Haul! In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151390@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010719064849.27916.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Ethan- > > > > > > Are you telling me you came down here to Louisville, KY and > > > grabbed a PDP-8 right out from underneath my nose? > > > > In 1986, yes, 3rd-party cabinet and all. > > Oh. Well, ok, in 1986, my consciousness hadn't risen the level > it's on today. Most peoples' hadn't. I don't even recall how I got in touch with the guy, but he'd had the system for more than 10 years and his wife wanted it out (sound familiar, anyone?) > > > Way to go, dude! But let me have the next one, OK? > > > > NP > > Que? Short for "No Problem". -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 01:58:53 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: ROM emulation (was Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010719065853.90712.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > >> > > I bought something called a Romulator (something like that, > >> > > http://www.romrocket.com/) that I could dump a file to over a serial > >> > > link, > >> > > and then it behaved in circuit exactly like an eprom. > > > >If it was a genuine "Romulator", it may have been made here in Columbus > >by a friend of mine - Grammar Engine produced the Romulator about 15 > > That be them, and where the link points. Yep. Confirmed. That's them. I hadn't heard of the RomRocket, but I am familiar with the older stuff. Got one here that's rigged for 16-bit operation. Great for 68K work. > I had you beat on turnaround time > though, the Apple IIgs running LISA would let me make a change in the > source (30k to 40k lines total), assemble and download ready to reset the > target system and test in less than 2 minutes. I was assembling on a VAX 8200 and squrting the binary out to the PROMice over one of the internal console ports - not high speed output. 9600 bps, but I'm pretty sure that described the bit time, not the bandwidth. We dropped $13K on the CPU, RAM and disk controller. We did had them pull the Ethernet and any other I/O to get the price _down_ to that! (later we got another CPU card and I managed to fiddle around with console media enough to get the CPU revs to match and, voila, an 8300. The last thing I got to work in it was a couple of 4Mb VAXBI memory cards I got from a scrapper for $10 each (he was going to strip the DRAM off of them) I have a DEBNT but don't know how to install the cab kit). Grammar Engine has been in the ROM emulation market since about 1988, give or take a bit. I may be biased, but I can at least recommend their older products. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 19 02:18:22 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors" (Jul 18, 22:51) References: <001201c1100e$866c0fe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10107190818.ZM11244@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 18, 22:51, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Say ... Which Apple OS is the ][e supposed to run? I have checked out that IIe > and it appears to work OK, but I've not yet found a bootable diskette. Does it > run the same DOS as the ][+? Yes. The ones I've seen were supplied with Apple DOS 3.3, but they will of course run ProDOS if you have the disks. > Apparently the ][e uses a serial printer. Perhaps I should have looked around > for that. It uses a wierd PS/2-like connector to communicate with the thing. Out of the box, an Apple //e didn't have a printer port fitted. That would be an add-on. Most common option in my experience is a parallel card, usually fitted to slot #1, but there's no reason you could use a serial card (typically in slot #2) instead. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 19 02:26:39 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo "Re: (OT) Sgi Indy" (Jul 19, 8:52) References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995482603.3b55dbeb5a55e@mail.er-grp.com> <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995521977.3b5675b9e09cc@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <10107190826.ZM11250@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 19, 8:52, Jarkko Teppo wrote: [ NeXT documentation ] > If you install the whole shebang (at least on 3.3) you get the documentation > library in (I don't remember) /NextLibrary/something. It doesn't matter > because the bookshelf-files are in /NextLibrary/BookShelves/. Just double > click on SysAdmin.bshlf. Thanks, I'll look tonight. > > > Man-pages on niload and nidump might help too. Honestly, I never > > remember > > > how to do it so I just improvise and create a local NI hierarchy and > > > use DNS for name resolution. > > > > I read them, and realised they didn't tell me enough, mainly because I > > don't understand the rest of it. > > niload is just a helper for loading text-based configuration files into > the NetInfo DB. nidump does the same in reverse. I got that far from the man pages, but I need to know which files they handle and what to turn them into for a single NeXT (in a sea of UNIX varieties). > Misc. link: > http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1060.htmld/1060.html That looks useful. Thanks! > > No, NIS is *never* an option ;-) > > Heh :) I'm sometimes ready to put NI into same category but that's > probably just because I have one (or two, if you count white boxes) > NeXT(s). NI would probably kick ass in an installation with something > like 100 machines. Except that it breaks one of the golden UNIX rules; keep the config information human-readable. > I must admit that NetInfo can be quite confusing and I can screw up a > machine pretty easily with it. I did that too :-) By following the obvious option in the setup and telling the machine it should use the network. I didn't realise what I was telling it to use the network *for* :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com Thu Jul 19 03:32:20 2001 From: Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: OT: Virii Message-ID: >How can I write a zero-byte program? How does NAV identify this virus if >it's zero bytes in length? What real threat to my PC is an e-mail-propagated >virus of length zero? Sounds like it patches an existing file. One method of checking for a virus is to scan files for a tell-tale set of bytes, I would guess that's how NAV found this one. I just did a Google search for "Magistr" - a whole load of sites all say the same thing - a month after infection the virus kicks in and nobbles hard disk sectors, then has a go at the BIOS too. It doesn't sound like it's that easy to fix :-( Moral 1: never open an attachment from anyone unless you've confirmed in advance what it is. It's not enough to say "never open attachments from people you don't know" because most of these mail virii are spread by using people's Outlook Address Books... if you're unlucky enough to have a mate who's got you in his address book and s/he opens a virus attachment you're going to get the virus delivered from a friendly source... I used to get some stick from the lads when we go out for beers for never opening the joke GIFs they mail me - one day I wrote a bit of VBA in a Word document and sent it to them - all it did was list the contents of C:\ into the document in the same style as the DIR command, then pop up a dialog saying "Do you want to delete these files?" with only a "Yes" button and the "X" box system button. Either way once the dialog was closed it then put up another dialog saying "Thanks for playing" at the same time as deleting each line in the document (not the actual files, of course!), one a second. The utter panic this caused amongst 4 supposedly experienced programmers was a revelation - 4 "what the **** was that?" phonecalls later was enough to convince me that a) never trust your mates emails, it might not be from them b) don't believe your eyes - Word isn't completely WYSIWYG, thankfully :-) Moral 2: use alternatives to Microsoft, they've lost the plot - as if I needed to say that on this list :-) Moral 3: just because it's technically possible doesn't mean it's particularly desirable. What possible justification can they have for including a programming language in a word processor? What did Chuck Thacker call it? Biggerism? On topic: once I've fixed the PERQ's monitor I'll be hacking clones of elm and lynx together. I'd like to see anyone infect that machine :-) -- al From Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com Thu Jul 19 03:52:14 2001 From: Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: parcel post from U.K. to U.S.A. ? Message-ID: > From the UK (ParcelForce): I wouldn't use Parcel Force personally. Much better to use Amtrak, UPS, FedEx, anyone ...! They regularly dump stuff on my doorstep without waiting to see if anyone's in... doesn't matter if it's raining either (it often is!) }:-| I gave up complaining about it ages ago, and now just ask people to use Amtrak instead if possible. If Parcel Farce can't deliver something from Bristol to Bath without it getting damaged there's not much hope of them getting it across the Atlantic... use somebody else and do yourself a favour :-) -- al From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Jul 19 04:08:28 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: NeXT (was (OT) Sgi Indy) In-Reply-To: <10107190826.ZM11250@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995482603.3b55dbeb5a55e@mail.er-grp.com> <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995521977.3b5675b9e09cc@mail.er-grp.com> <10107190826.ZM11250@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <995533708.3b56a38c7c83d@mail.er-grp.com> Quoting Pete Turnbull : > On Jul 19, 8:52, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > > > Thanks, I'll look tonight. or: http://www.channelu.com/NeXT/NeXTStep/3.3/nsa/11_MixedNet.htmld/ > > NeXT(s). NI would probably kick ass in an installation with > something > > like 100 machines. > > Except that it breaks one of the golden UNIX rules; keep the config > information human-readable. Well, NeXT did a few things against unix traditions, NI didn't probably work out well but objc, developing environment and the windowing system certainly did. One really has to try those to see how badly X11 sucks. > I did that too :-) By following the obvious option in the setup and > telling the machine it should use the network. I didn't realise what I > was > telling it to use the network *for* :-) > If you end up with a corrupted NI db (badly corrupted) you can reset all the NI information by booting single-user and cp -r /usr/template/client/etc/hostconfig /etc cp -r /usr/template/client/etc/netinfo /etc/netinfo You'll lose all NI information like user accounts and so on. Better than a reinstall anyway. I once had to do that when I hooked up a TK50ZGAFSA (the one with almost-scsi anyway) and it had the same SCSI-ID as my root disk. I should have noticed this when the tape drive started blinking as the root drive was seeking. Blame it on the beer. You should have seen the drive corruption though :-) -- jht From workstations at poczta.onet.pl Thu Jul 19 06:57:16 2001 From: workstations at poczta.onet.pl (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards Message-ID: <01d901c11049$fb33fd70$05ffa8c0@hx.com> Hello everyone! I'm looking for sources of inexpensive Digital Alpha CPUs and motherboards for a hobby project I'm putting together with my friends. I tried eBay, but there is not much Alpha gear to be found there. I'd be very grateful for any pointers. PS. I love this list. Jacek -- Czatuj, wyslij sms-y, sprawdz poczte Zainstaluj OnetKomunikatora [ http://ok.onet.pl/ ] From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 19 08:02:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 18, 1 10:03:48 am Message-ID: <001001c11053$05f5a840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I can recommend you consider that the difference between the fastest speed and the optimal speed comes down to a number of things. Consider one case, wherein we speeded the operation of a multi-computer security system by reducing the baud rate of the monitor terminals from 9600 to 1200. That reduced the amount of idle (ENQ/ACK) traffic by 90%. Moreover, lots of I/O tasks require too much speed if you have to test a flag before fetching each byte. However, if your processor is running at a rate synchronized with the transfer, you only have to check the flag once, then use a loop tuned for the exact length of the transfer cycle. As Tony points out, it's based on the externally imposed rate, and if your oscillator doesn't synchronize with that, you have problems. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:16 AM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > >> Number (3) seems like really bad form, making a circuit that depends on the > >> processor running at some specific rate. Much better to write code that is > >> "aware" of the processor speed and compensates for it. > > > >How do you propose measuring the CPU speed? You always need _some_ timing > >reference of a known frequency (for example, one way is to see how many > >simple loops you can run between mains frequency interrupts, but you then > >need to know the mains frequency). And it adds complexity to the system. > > > >For embedded controllers it's very common to write the code for a > >particular clock crystal frequency and be done with it. Particularly for > >things like bit-banged serial I/O. A number of my listings start with > >comments like 'PIC 16C84 processor clocked at 4MHz' or whatever. > > That works for me, and the next line would define some constant with a > value that I interpret to be 4 MHz within my code. That way when a new chip > comes out that supports 6 or 8 mhz, and I need more processing power the > design is easily updated. All this could fall into the great grey area of > personal style, but very often when I work on a project some specific > direction seems much more "right" than others. Sometimes I can explain my > point of view, others times I just know it even if I don't have a clue > exactly why. > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jul 19 08:33:42 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: OT: Virii In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010719083105.00bc3920@pc> At 09:32 AM 7/19/01 +0100, Alan Pearson wrote: >I just did a Google search for "Magistr" - a whole load of >sites all say the same thing - a month after infection the virus kicks in >and nobbles hard disk sectors, then has a go at the BIOS too. It doesn't >sound like it's that easy to fix :-( PE_Magistr plays interesting tricks. It searches documents on your system, and uses fragments to assemble the body of the e-mail that's sent. I received it several times - from a programmer, the text was techy and the filename hinted at the registry, from someone in government, the text was puzzling but reminiscent. I can see how people are fooled. It also has several levels of polymorphism to evade detection. - John From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jul 19 08:50:38 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes References: Message-ID: <3B56E5AE.EE6CF42A@idirect.com> >William King wrote: > I recently acquired a load of 9 track tapes from eBay. What a deal, I only > paid 1 cent for a trunk load of tapes. In there, I found an original DEC > RSX11M+ (3.0) distribution, several DECUS RSX SIG tapes from the fall of > 1981 to the spring of 1987 and a bunch of other miscellaneous tapes! Jerome Fine replies: As mentioned from another reply, Tim Shoppa probably has those DECUS RSX-11 tapes already available for download. But the RSX11M+ (V3.00) may be OK to make available for download as well. Zane, do you have a copy of the hobby license from Mentec as to which versions of RSX-11 are allowed? > If copies are not available elsewhere, I was planning on duping the RSX SIG > tapes and putting them up on my www site. I won't be putting the RSX > distribution online due to the copyright infringement problems :-( V5.03 of RT-11 has already been put online for distribution. If V3.00 of RSX11M+ that you have is allowed in the Mentec license for hobby users, then it should be possible to arrange to have that license attached the the RSX-11 version that you have just like with the RT-11 V5.03 distribution. Since I use only RT-11 myself, I can't help with the RSX-11 software, but I am sure that many others who do use RSX-11 would appreciate your doing so. > I have a PDP-11 running RT-11 (v5.03) and a uVAX-III running VMS v5.5. I can > hook my 9 track tape drive (TS05) up to either of them. I'd bet VMS would be > the better bet, but I'm not sure about the best way to dup them so that they > would be useful for the rest of the world. As I stated above, V5.03 of RT-11 (thank you Megan Gentry for making it available) was made available for download almost three years ago. Look at: ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/ the actual file is: ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z for how V5.03 of RT-11 was done. In addition, it has also been cross-posted to: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/software/ but the filename used is: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/software/rtv53swre.tar.gz Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jul 19 09:04:15 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors In-Reply-To: <200107190014.RAA23720@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: > 1a) Get a copy of the book "From Chips to Systems" > by Rodnay Zaks. I have to agree with this wholeheartedly. It's a great book! You might also want to look into the DIY6502 (google for it). It's a really neat SBC based on the 6502. You can build it for under $100 and it's a great way to learn since it's so very simple. g. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 11:38:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes In-Reply-To: <3B56E5AE.EE6CF42A@idirect.com> References: Message-ID: >>William King wrote: > >> I recently acquired a load of 9 track tapes from eBay. What a deal, I only >> paid 1 cent for a trunk load of tapes. In there, I found an original DEC >> RSX11M+ (3.0) distribution, several DECUS RSX SIG tapes from the fall of >> 1981 to the spring of 1987 and a bunch of other miscellaneous tapes! > >Jerome Fine replies: > >As mentioned from another reply, Tim Shoppa probably has those DECUS >RSX-11 tapes already available for download. If he doesn't copies need to be provided to his archive. For anyone that's not aware of what he's doing, he provides the primary archive for all DECUS PDP-11 software, and all (DECUS and DEC) PDP-10 software. >But the RSX11M+ (V3.00) may be OK to make available for download >as well. Zane, do you have a copy of the hobby license from Mentec as >to which versions of RSX-11 are allowed? You're right, RSX-11M+ V3.0 is allowed under the license. However, this has gotten kind of tricky. As I understand it this only applies to emulators released by DEC, we've known that Ersatz-11 wasn't covered, well guess what, as I understand it the latest versions of simh, technically aren't either (note, neither Bob Supnik nor Mentec have commented on this as far as I know, but this has been brought up in the newsgroups). So it sounds like simh v2.3d or so can be used to run RSX-11M+ V3.0 as a hobbyist legally, but that's about it. Confused yet? I've included the license text below, hopefully it doesn't get to scrambled. Oh, and done't forget layered products for RSX-11M+ V3.0 that were released before or at the time of RSX-11M+ V3.0 are also covered under this license. Zane LICENSE AGREEMENT This Agreement, dated ________________, is entered into by Mentec Inc., a Massachusetts Company, located at 55 Technology Drive, Lowell, MA 01851, U.S.A. (MENTEC), and _____________________________________________ having a residence at __________________________________________________________ (CUSTOMER). Whereas, MENTEC owns the rights to the following PDP-11 Operating Systems and associated layered products (RT-11 V5.3 or prior, RSTS/E V9.6 or prior, RSX-11M V4.3 or prior, RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or prior) (SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY) and is prepared to grant a non-exclusive license to use such SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY for personal, non-commercial purposes; Whereas, CUSTOMER desires to enter into a License Agreement which will allow CUSTOMER to use such software technology at his or her residence for personal, non-commercial purposes; MENTEC and CUSTOMER agree as follows: 1 DEFINITIONS SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY shall mean the binary versions of the PDP-11 Operating Systems (RT-11 V5.3 or prior, RSTS/E V9.6 or prior, RSX-11M V4.3 or prior, RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or prior), and associated utilities and layered products that run on PDP-11 computers. MENTEC?S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS shall mean MENTEC?s patent, copyright and trade secret rights in its SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. EMULATOR shall mean software owned by Digital Equipment Corporation that emulates the operation of a PDP-11 processor and allows PDP-11 programs and operating systems to run on non-PDP-11 systems. 2 LICENSE GRANT MENTEC grants to CUSTOMER a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license under MENTEC's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS to use and copy the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY solely for personal, non-commercial uses in conjunction with the EMULATOR. 3 TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER AND ACCEPTANCE 3.1 CUSTOMER is responsible for obtaining copies of SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY and accepts the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY "AS IS". 3.2 MENTEC is under no obligation to supply SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY, documentation, error corrections or updates to the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY if or when they become available, or to provide training, support or consulting for the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. 4 WARRANTY DISCLAIMER/LIMITATION OF LIABILITY MENTEC DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO ANY SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY LICENSED TO CUSTOMER HEREUNDER, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL MENTEC BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE OR DATA, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY INFRINGEMENT OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF ANY SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY LICENSED HEREUNDER. 5 INDEMNITY CUSTOMER will hold MENTEC harmless against all liabilities, demands, damages, expenses, or losses arising out of use by CUSTOMER of SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY or information furnished under this Agreement. 6 TERM AND TERMINATION 6.1 This Agreement shall be effective until otherwise terminated. Either party may terminate this Agreement at any time upon 30 days written notice. 6.2 If CUSTOMER shall fail to perform or observe any of the terms and conditions to be performed or observed by it under this Agreement, MENTEC may in its sole discretion thereafter elect to terminate this Agreement, and this Agreement and all the obligations owed and rights granted herein to CUSTOMER shall immediately terminate. 6.3 The parties agree that the termination of this Agreement shall not release either party from any other liability which shall have accrued to the other party at the time such termination becomes effective, nor affect in any manner the survival of any right, duty or obligation of either party. 6.4 In the event of any termination of this Agreement for any reason, CUSTOMER shall delete all original and all whole or partial copies and derivatives of the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY from his or her computer system. CUSTOMER further shall cease to use and distribute the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY in all forms immediately upon the date of termination. 7 GENERAL TERMS 7.1 This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. 7.2 This Agreement imposes personal obligations on CUSTOMER. CUSTOMER shall not assign any rights under this Agreement not specifically transferable by its terms without the written consent of MENTEC. 7.3 The SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY obtained under this Agreement may be subject to US and other government export control regulations. CUSTOMER assures that it will comply with these regulations whenever it exports or re-exports a controlled product or technical data obtained from MENTEC or any product produced directly from the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. 7.4 The waiver of a breach hereunder may be effected only by a writing signed by the waiving party and shall not constitute a waiver of any other breach. 7.5 CUSTOMER acknowledges that he has read this Agreement, understands it and agrees to be bound by its terms and further agrees that it is the complete and exclusive statement of the Agreement between the parties which supersedes all communications and understanding between the parties relating to the subject matter of this Agreement. -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Jul 19 11:43:57 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question Message-ID: Zane wrote: >There are MP3 players for 68k Amiga's?!?! That's either rather gutsy, or >pathetic, I'm not sure which. What do they do, decode them to another >format and then play them? There is an MP3 player for 68k NeXTs. See http://www.wizards.de/~frank/download.html to get it. The blurb says it runs realtime on Turbo, and 22kHz play on 25 MHz systems. - Mark - Mark From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 11:47:01 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <10107190818.ZM11244@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010719164701.36311.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jul 18, 22:51, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Say ... Which Apple OS is the ][e supposed to run? I have checked out > > that IIe and it appears to work OK, but I've not yet found a bootable > > diskette. Does it run the same DOS as the ][+? > > Yes. The ones I've seen were supplied with Apple DOS 3.3, but they will of > course run ProDOS if you have the disks. ISTR this came up a while back - did we establish there *was* a way to take AppleDOS disk images and cut 5.25" diskettes on some flavor of Mac, or is a IIGS required? (I forget if you could hang any external 5.25" disks off the Mac (voltage issues) or even of you could, would the IWM know what to do with it or not). > > Apparently the ][e uses a serial printer. Perhaps I should have looked > > around for that. It uses a wierd PS/2-like connector to communicate with > > the thing. LocalTalk? Looks a little like an S-Video connector? > Out of the box, an Apple //e didn't have a printer port fitted. That would > be an add-on. Most common option in my experience is a parallel card, > usually fitted to slot #1, but there's no reason you could use a serial > card (typically in slot #2) instead. When I used to develop Apple software, we had both in the same machine - a parallel dot matrix printer for some stuff, a serial daisywheel for other stuff. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 12:13:07 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: More freebies in Michigan (PC based, mainly) In-Reply-To: <3B5670FC.D9033D2@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010719171307.39142.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I have more free stuff here in Michigan... > -Teac 1.2 meg floppy drive, model FD-55GFR, These drives are great if > you need to read and write to 360K floppies. I haven't had too much > trouble doing that, and I have always attributed it to the quality of > the Teac drives I use. I love this drive. It also can be strapped into use as an RX33 for DEC equipment. No, I don't need another one. I just thought I'd mention it for the benefit of others. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 19 12:41:51 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors References: <200107190634.f6J6YE803138@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <000f01c1107a$182643e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, I've got one of those as well. With a little effort, BTW, you can adapt the 60-pin expansion connector to a 52-pin header or other adapter and fit that in to a target PGA socket on your target board, thereby giving you in-circuit operation capabilities in spite of the fact that the 68HC11 is operated in expanded multiplexed mode on the EVBU. The 6801L1 is essentially the same sort of thing with less in the way of resources, but much easier to use because it's a single chip. Th 68HC25 will allow you to expand it into a similar system, yet give you back the use of the ports lost in briniging out the data bus and address bus on what would otherwise have been I/O ports. The LILBUG is not as sophisticated as the BUFFALO monitor that's on the EVBU, but it has the debug, line-by-line assembler, etc. functions. There are numerous boards of this sort for a variety of microcontrollers. They seldom address the issues associated with microprocessors, however, since they're normally used to host single-chip mircontontrollers, e.g. 68HC05C8, 87C15x, etc. which are essentially single-chip microcomputers with all their resources INSIDE the chip, where you can't do much to use the internal busses, etc. Few of them actually allow you to bring out the address and data bus and the associated control signals. I'm constrained by NDA from explaining in detail, but, if you spend a little time with a logic analyzer and certain MCU's from a very large MCU manufacturer, perhaps the only one that uses the term MCU, you might learn a little about how this can be done in spite of what the mfg prefers. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Dittman" To: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:34 AM Subject: Re: Intro to Microprocessors > > Yes, it'd be great to put together a learning system that way, IF the person > > had the skill and determination to pull it off. This very scenario is why I > > suggested (back on Sunday I think) that a good way to go would be to pick up > > a 68HC11 Evaluation Board (EVBU or EVM). My EVBU (which is currently built > > into a little robot) already HAS: > > - serial port > > - monitor & assembler/disassembler program (Buffalo) > > - 1k EEPROM > > - wire wrap area > > - real-time clock > > - assembler & download software > > - five ports: > > A - pulse counters or general I/O > > B - parallel output or address selection if using ext. RAM/ROM > > C - parallel I/O or address/data port if using ext. RAM/ROM > > D - two comm ports or general I/O > > E - eight analog inputs or general inputs > > But if you have everything already done for you do you learn the > basics? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 19 11:53:55 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <20010719164701.36311.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > ISTR this came up a while back - did we establish there *was* a way to > take AppleDOS disk images and cut 5.25" diskettes on some flavor of > Mac, or is a IIGS required? (I forget if you could hang any external > 5.25" disks off the Mac (voltage issues) or even of you could, would > the IWM know what to do with it or not). I'll leave the more informed reply to the more informed but I am positive you can't hook an Apple ][ drive to a Mac. You can probably do it through an Apple ][ card (I have one for the LC but can't find it right now to check the connectors on the back). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From stefan at softhome.net Thu Jul 19 12:58:05 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: schematic for Philips BM7502/00G monitor Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719195645.02a4f1e0@pop.softhome.net> Hi, Can anybody help me with schematics for a Philips BM7502/00G monitor ? A good scan is also fine of course and preferred even. Thanks! Stefan. From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jul 19 12:59:00 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes References: Message-ID: <3B571FE4.75BBAFCF@idirect.com> >William King wrote: > I recently acquired a load of 9 track tapes from eBay. What a deal, I only > paid 1 cent for a trunk load of tapes. In there, I found an original DEC > RSX11M+ (3.0) distribution! I won't be putting the RSX > distribution online due to the copyright infringement problems :-( Jerome Fine replies: Since I the only operating system I use from the PDP-11 is RT-11, I have no interest at all in RSX-11. But I have seen a number of others who are very interesting in running RSX-11 as a hobby user. Based on what Zane Healy just provided about the Mentec hobby license AND the fact that V5.03 of RT-11 is available from two sites to be downloaded. I just provided those URLs in my last post - if anyone missed them, here they are again: ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/ for the file ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z And the other is: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/software/ for the file ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/software/rtv53swre.tar.gz It seems to me (as a non-lawyer) that a similar download for RSX11M+ V3.00 should be totally accepted by Mentec in the same manner. > Now the questions > 1.) Would having the RSX11M+ V3.00 tape on-line be useful? YES! > 2.) If so, what's the best way to dup them and make them available for > download? I don't know if Megan Gentry can arrange to add RSX-11, but probably "minnie" would be glad to accept the file. That way everything would be managed in the same manner. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 19 13:02:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors References: <200107190014.RAA23720@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <003501c1107c$f1fa8200$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have a couple of the ZAKS books and found them rather lame. The approach is pretty conservative and some of the stuff he recommended in the books I got didn't work as advertised. I don't know whether that's bad or not. I never had the sense that his work got deeply enough into any specific processor that it would help with the selection of one CPU over another, which is, after all, one of the things one wishing to learn about microprocessors in general needs to know, but the general field is covered in a very rudimentary way. It's my belief that anyone who's learned how to read can get more from the data sheets and data book app's information than his books offer. Now if you want a cookbook approach, which he spreads from one CPU to another, it's there if you want it. I suppose it IS better than no approach at all, and you've got to start somewhere. One thing I never saw in a book, particularly of this sort, was adaptive clock switching. In one environment, I found that I could put a 16K block of fast RAM in the bottom of the 6502 memory map and that it would, therefore, run the software we were using about 4x as fast when I switched the CPU clock to 5 MHz (pushing the Synertek 4 MHz 6502C processor just a bit) for cycles accessing the bottom 16KB of memory. Since none of the I/O was slow, whenever I/O was used, it cycled in 200 ns as well. Consequently, all the software I used back then, which was assembled to load at 0x0200 and none reached above that 16K block, except for the memory buffers used by the assembler and editor, ran at full speed, only switching to 1 MHz when it reached outside that block or outside I/O. It was wonderful to have that level of performance back in the late '70's, particularly without paying the price of a fullcompliment of 55 ns RAM. There were numerous others that I've run into over the years, but nothing really interesting ever shows up in books about the basics. I guess that's as it should be. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:14 PM Subject: Re: Intro to Microprocessors > > My take on learning microprocessors: > > > > 1) Pick a reasonable processor. An 8085, Z80, > > 6502, or 680x is reasonable. A Pentium III is > > not. > 1a) Get a copy of the book "From Chips to Systems" > by Rodnay Zaks. > > 2) Read the data sheets. .... > > Other steps unmodified... > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 19 13:23:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: another Quadra References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010719195645.02a4f1e0@pop.softhome.net> Message-ID: <005101c1107f$eb1caaa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I went by the thrift store that had the Quadra 650 the other day and it was, as I expected, gone. They had another one today, a '605, however, and it hadn't yet been priced, so, when I asked, they put the same $13.99 on it as the one on Tuesday. Now, Tuesday is "half-price-for-seniors" day, so that would have been $6.99, but this one will probably be gone by next Tuesday. I looked inside, and it has an 80MB drive, apparently 48MB (32MB of FPM + 16 MB of EDO) of memory, and a 25MHz 68040. I'll be down that way again this afternoon if anybody's interested. All I want is what it costs + shipping. Dick From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 19 13:25:05 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Test: Message-ID: <002b01c11080$22ace8e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Test =99% ? Hoping this turns off most if not all of the text encoding that MS so thoughtfully provided for me . John A. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: John Allain Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 2:19 PM >> Test // Test \\ From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jul 19 13:31:11 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal Message-ID: I have been involved in the installation of 5 ISDN, 7 cable modem and 2 DSL installations. One of the DSL installations never went live. The other works, sort of, now being replaced by Cable Modem. DSL SWBell was unable to handle having a router and then wanted us to remove the sniffer we were using to troubleshoot the line. I was lucky the police didn't arrive when the DSL and the alarm system phone line couldn't coexist. I also didn't enjoy crawling under beds and furniture to place filters on all of the phone jacks. Unable to authenticate unless connected, unable to connect unless authenticated. Cable Modem I have lost service twice due to creatures eating my coax cable. It's now routed through a pipe and they instead chewed my phone line last night. I think they are squirrels, "rats with tails". ISDN My nightmares have almost subsided from these installations. If you hear the work ISDN start drinking immediately. The installation crews want to leave all of the problems to the service crews. Configuring ISDN modems is a nightmare, SPID=profanity. All of the companies have no clue about support. First level wants you to reinstall your operating system. Second level reads script and will call you back. System status knowledge is always a joke. I've called in after a 1/2 hour server outage and been told the system was never down. My first troubleshooting technique is to call several of my neighbors who have cable modem and ask if their systems are up. My last cable eaten by squirrel adventure, the TV still worked by the modem wouldn't connect. Download speed only varies a little, slower about 6-7 PM. I'm troubled by the desire of companies to provide mission critical services over consumer quality telecommunication and computer equipment. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 13:33:21 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010719183321.24393.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > ISTR this came up a while back - did we establish there *was* a way to > > take AppleDOS disk images and cut 5.25" diskettes on some flavor of > > Mac, or is a IIGS required? (I forget if you could hang any external > > 5.25" disks off the Mac (voltage issues) or even of you could, would > > the IWM know what to do with it or not). > > I'll leave the more informed reply to the more informed but I am positive > you can't hook an Apple ][ drive to a Mac. You can probably do it through > an Apple ][ card (I have one for the LC but can't find it right now to > check the connectors on the back). Makes sense. Fortunately for me, I *have* an LC with that card (and a cable, thanks to Mike Ford). I will pursue that avenue for cutting AppleDOS disks. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 19 14:01:59 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > ISTR this came up a while back - did we establish there *was* a way to > > take AppleDOS disk images and cut 5.25" diskettes on some flavor of > > Mac, or is a IIGS required? (I forget if you could hang any external > > 5.25" disks off the Mac (voltage issues) or even of you could, would > > the IWM know what to do with it or not). > > I'll leave the more informed reply to the more informed but I am positive > you can't hook an Apple ][ drive to a Mac. You can probably do it through > an Apple ][ card (I have one for the LC but can't find it right now to > check the connectors on the back). I think that I have read some rather specific warnings against connecting a 5,25 Apple drive to a Mac. Can wipe out the FDC such that even the internal drive will not work. - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From Gary.Messick at itt.com Thu Jul 19 14:04:56 2001 From: Gary.Messick at itt.com (Messick, Gary) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes Message-ID: <998FEBD9C16DD211881200A0C9D61AD702A23B0B@acdfwx3.acdin.de.ittind.com> My understanding of the Mentec hobby license only covered use fo rthe emmulators, not real hardware. Am I mistaken? Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerome Fine [mailto:jhfine@idirect.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:59 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes > > > >William King wrote: > > > I recently acquired a load of 9 track tapes from eBay. What > a deal, I only > > paid 1 cent for a trunk load of tapes. In there, I found an > original DEC > > RSX11M+ (3.0) distribution! I won't be putting the RSX > > distribution online due to the copyright infringement problems :-( > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Since I the only operating system I use from the PDP-11 is RT-11, > I have no interest at all in RSX-11. But I have seen a > number of others > who are very interesting in running RSX-11 as a hobby user. > > Based on what Zane Healy just provided about the Mentec hobby > license AND the fact that V5.03 of RT-11 is available from two > sites to be downloaded. I just provided those URLs in my last post - > if anyone missed them, here they are again: > ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/ > for the file > ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z > And the other is: > ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/software/ > for the file > ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/software/rtv53swre.ta r.gz > > It seems to me (as a non-lawyer) that a similar download for RSX11M+ V3.00 > should be totally accepted by Mentec in the same manner. > > >Now the questions > > 1.) Would having the RSX11M+ V3.00 tape on-line be useful? > > YES! > > > 2.) If so, what's the best way to dup them and make them available for > > download? > > I don't know if Megan Gentry can arrange to add RSX-11, but probably > "minnie" would be glad to accept the file. That way everything would be > managed in the same manner. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Thu Jul 19 16:18:38 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Cray on ebay Message-ID: <01071923212300.00373@jos> It's OT , since less then 10 years old, but a "real Cray" has crept up on the german ebay site. Currently less than 200 USD.... Jos From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 19 15:21:47 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010719132023.02c348b0@209.185.79.193> At 01:31 PM 7/19/01 -0500, you wrote: >I'm troubled by the desire of companies to provide mission critical services >over consumer quality telecommunication and computer equipment. And you wonder why they went out of business? DSL can be much more reliable than Cable Modems but it does have to be installed properly, and you need to have the correct filter at the junction box to prevent interference with line noise. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 15:25:33 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes In-Reply-To: from "Messick, Gary" at Jul 19, 2001 02:04:56 PM Message-ID: <200107192025.f6JKPXs18490@shell1.aracnet.com> > My understanding of the Mentec hobby license only covered use fo rthe > emmulators, not real hardware. > > Am I mistaken? > > Gary No, you are not mistaken. It is only good for emulators from DEC, which covers simh up to about version 2.3d, it is unknown if the latest version is still covered. Of course the only thing I'm using the latest version for is the PDP-10 emulation so I can run TOPS-10 :^) Zane From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Thu Jul 19 16:25:20 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes Message-ID: Chuck McManis @classiccmp.org on 07/19/2001 03:21:47 PM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org cc: Subject: Re: OT: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal At 01:31 PM 7/19/01 -0500, you wrote: >I'm troubled by the desire of companies to provide mission critical services >over consumer quality telecommunication and computer equipment. And you wonder why they went out of business? DSL can be much more reliable than Cable Modems but it does have to be installed properly, and you need to have the correct filter at the junction box to prevent interference with line noise. --Chuck -------------------------------------------------------- Very true. Qwest (Formerly U.S.Worst,er West) in Cedar Rapids Iowa has fairly decent DSL. They don't futz around with your computer like the @Home cable modem folks do. I've had 256k DSL for about 9 months now and had about 37 minutes of down time. (~20 min, and then ~17 min a couple months later) Of course I live in a bedroom community about 5 blocks from the TelCo switch. My only gripe is that the Cisco 675 DSL router/modem they sold me MUST be in routing mode, not bridging mode, and it does not have the capability to do port forwarding. So you can't run a server to save your soul. - M.S. From Pat.Thielen at aexp.com Thu Jul 19 15:07:22 2001 From: Pat.Thielen at aexp.com (Pat Thielen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Xerox 860 IPS needs a good home Message-ID: Hi there, I was given this e-mail address from a person who wanted to buy my 860 IPS, but couldn't afford the high cost of shipping it out East. So, he suggested I send a note to this mail list to see if anyone there may want it. The stats for it are: Xerox 860 IPS (circe 1980 or so) Printer Full page monitor with a portrait orientation (so you see the full page) 2 8 inch disc drives COM card (I'm really not sure what this is for) Operating system disc Word processing disk Utilities disc As far as I know, the system still works, although I haven't powered it on in quite awhile. Its been residing in my garage for the last year or so, so you may want to make sure all the cards are seated nicely before turning it on. Otherwise, it works just fine -- I used to use it for work processing until I got a PC. Anyway, it'd be an "as-is" agreement. Of course the price is right -- free! For any further info on this beast, feel free to e-mail me at my home address (this is my work account): loki@visi.com Also, keep in mind that I live in Saint Paul, Minnesota, and its *very* expensive to ship any great distance. If anyone is interested in aquiring this system they'll really want to come and pick it up. Thanks! Pat Thielen 651-501-8067 loki@visi.com www.axolotyl-studios.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jul 19 16:56:57 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: from Don Maslin at "Jul 19, 1 12:01:59 pm" Message-ID: <200107192156.OAA09578@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I'll leave the more informed reply to the more informed but I am positive > > you can't hook an Apple ][ drive to a Mac. You can probably do it through > > an Apple ][ card (I have one for the LC but can't find it right now to > > check the connectors on the back). > > I think that I have read some rather specific warnings against > connecting a 5,25 Apple drive to a Mac. Can wipe out the FDC such that > even the internal drive will not work. Exactly. Do NOT connect 5.25" drives directly to a Mac under any circumstances because that's exactly what it will do (the Apple II card, though, should work, but that's not directly to the Mac). 3.5" drives are okay. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Gravity is a myth. The Earth just sucks. ----------------------------------- From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Jul 19 13:04:42 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: another Quadra In-Reply-To: <005101c1107f$eb1caaa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010719220009.ZBQG29255.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Subject: another Quadra > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:23:33 -0600 > Organization: Erlacher Associates > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I went by the thrift store that had the Quadra 650 the other day and it was, as > I expected, gone. They had another one today, a '605, however, and it hadn't > yet been priced, so, when I asked, they put the same $13.99 on it as the one on > Tuesday. Now, Tuesday is "half-price-for-seniors" day, so that would have been > $6.99, but this one will probably be gone by next Tuesday. I looked inside, and > it has an 80MB drive, apparently 48MB (32MB of FPM + 16 MB of EDO) of memory, > and a 25MHz 68040. > > I'll be down that way again this afternoon if anybody's interested. All I want > is what it costs + shipping. Blah. Quadra 605 is kinda lowend. 68LC040 25, 4MB on board, one SIMM slot, up to 36MB max (4MB + 32MB). LC475 is better in same box, same logicboard except CPU is still crippled 68LC040/50. FPM not EDO, I know because I tried EDO in my warmed over C610 (turned Q610 freatures) , that refused to take it. Slot is LC III PDS type. Honestly, should had taken that Q650 in place of that thing. Both Quadra 700 (8 simms) and Q900 (whopping 16 simms) uses 30 pin simms, other than that, most of Quadra are full 68040 25 to 40 and uses 720pin simms, nubus slots. Except Q610 is 25MHz and limited expansion (PDS slot only) and Q605 is pizza box with 68LC040 25. "LC" in the 68LC040 has no FPU. Where I live I don't see Macs very much which is biggest reason I begged yours for this Quadra like 650, even powerpc Mac. Even just 68040 33 CPU alone it commands lot of cash on ebay which I don't wish to do so. FYI, many Macs that uses 68LC040 can be swapped for full 68040 but that incurs extra expenses which I have shirt to show. I know! Also these machines often have cripped freatures or design of case that limits the expansions that are associated with centris and some performas makes them least interesting machines. The Q605 and LC475 logicboards is one and same only difference is the jumper itself that identifies it as such. This logicboard is direct drop-in in any LCII and up series pizza boxes except original LC. IHMO these LCII and up looks nicer than the performa or Q605 in appearance, ditto to IIci/IIcx. Reason I wanted Q650 was it's features and right type of board to transplant into IIci or IIcx with minimum cutting which I have this IIci. Powerpc mac 7100, 8100 will also fit IIci and IIcx cases with some cutting to the case. If you see cheap Q650, PPC 7100 or 8100, I'm interested also. I mark you, I'm willing to pay for cost and shipping on these models. Cheers, Wizard > > Dick From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 18 22:47:53 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107180158.f6I1w0O02414@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3378.600T2650T2875979optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >> I don't have a network card, but if all goes well a GVP >> Spectrum graphics card is going into it. BTW, 3.9 includes a bunch >> of AVI's and a few MP3's on the CD to test the various media players >> with, as well as an audio track. I'm not planning on upgrading any >> of the other custom chips unless I find I have to, such as the Buster. >There are MP3 players for 68k Amiga's?!?! That's either rather gutsy, or >pathetic, I'm not sure which. What do they do, decode them to another >format and then play them? Keep in mind that I'm running a 25 MHz Amiga as my main (only) machine. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy MP3s. =) They decode in real time. A French bloke named Stephane Tavenard deserves most of the credit for his tight assembler-coded MPEGA.library, which most players use. Since my stock A4000 is probably the absolute low-end for getting moderate quality playback, I usually use a command-line player and a lot of buffering. A faster '040 or an '060 won't be so limitated. An '060 may even replay several MP3s at once, and there are pretty, skinnable programs such as AmigaAMP or AMPlifier. =) Decoding MP3s to another format is for Mac users. Let them believe realtime playback is impossible. Amiga (and Atari) users know otherwise. =) >> Mine's going underneathe my NEC monitor and sharing it with >> the G3. This little Multisync C400 has certainly seen it's share of >> various computers since I bought it in '96! >The monitors I've got would probably crush a A3000! I might be able to put >it in the wooden rack next to the desk, but the PDP-8/m sits where it would >need to go, and I'm going to need to find more room in the rack for a >PDP-8/e and Papertape reader/punch. We're running a 17" Compaq monitor on top of ours. A friend of mine runs a 19- incher on top of his, IIRC- >OTOH, I might be able to stuff it under the A2002 Monitor I've got hooked up >to a dead VCR (I use the combo for a TV in the computer room. I use a Philips 8833 as TV. =) What's an A2002? Is that the one with the slow phosphor? >> I'm going to use mine as a backup system as well as one to >> handle those times when I just feel the urge ot use an Amiga. The >> fact that it doesn't depend on anything MS is nice too. You could >> also use it as a Linux box too. It'd be cool to fix the kernel panic >> on mine when booting into Linux, but that's a low priority. I think >> I saw some of the distro files still on the hard disk when I was >> moving stuff around on the Amiga partition. >Don't need a backup system, and I've no desire to run Linux on anything but >a fast x86 box. So I'm still trying to come up with a use for it. That was >one of the reasons I bought it a Catweasel, however, the board didn't >function as advertised thanks to the lack of software for it. Of course the >Catweasel board is also why it's sitting in a monster ALR Server Tower at >the moment! What software are you lacking? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga: (noun) The most technologically advanced computer that hardly anyone cares about. Use in sentence: "I wanted to buy an Amiga for its low price and great color graphics, but everyone else seems to be using IBMs or Macintoshes. So, to remain compatible with the rest of the world, I spent three times as much on a Macintosh and got only half the graphics capability of an Amiga." From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 18 22:52:23 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <010001c10f88$9db5f0c0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <1595.600T1150T2924515optimus@canit.se> Gareth Knight skrev: >Zane H. Healy wrote: >> There are MP3 players for 68k Amiga's?!?! That's either rather gutsy, or >> pathetic, I'm not sure which. What do they do, decode them to another >> format and then play them? >My first exposure to MP3 was using an Amiga! They play fine on a 040, though >you have to decrease the quality a bit. The minimum spec for Amiga MP3 >players is usually a 030, though I heard one being played on an A1200 020 >(full, not EC). It was recognisable, but not something I would enjoy to hear >on a regular basis. I've still got cassette tapes I produced on my '020@28MHz A1200. I'd download the MP3s one at a time, since I had a cramped 80 MB HD, then reboot without running the Startup-sequence, so as to save as much memory as possible, then use all the memory for buffering and press REC on the tape recorder when the memory was filled. =) >On a related note, I notice that FreeGEM - the open source version of x86 >GEM - has gained a MP3 and MIDI player. I'm planning to install it on the >486/33Mhz 4Mb machine I was given. At the moment it makes a brilliant DOS >game Where might it be downloaded? >machine - Elite Plus, Xmas Lemmings, and various card games have been >installed on the hard disk. I'm installing an old 20+ disk set of MS >Office as I type this. Have you tried Frontier? I can't get that bloody game to install on any PC. The Amiga version was just a matter of drag-and-drop. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle meine Noten bringen mich nicht aus den N?ten, und ich schreibe noten ?berhaupt nur aus N?ten. --- Ludwig van Beethoven From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 18 22:53:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <01Jul18.101957edt.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <443.600T600T2934477optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: > I forgot to mention that the other thing I changed was in the SCSI >prefs. The machine had 'Synchronous Transfer' mode checked. I unchecked it >it seems much more stable after that as well. Doesn't synchronous mode allow higher transfer rates, though? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Idealismus ist die F?higkeit, die Menschen so zu sehen, wie sie sein k?nnten, wenn sie nicht so w?ren, wie sie sind. --- Curt Goetz From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 19 09:00:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <509.600T850T9004991optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> > In some ways he should be paying you to remove the RA81's! >> >> They're *that* common? >No, they're large, heavy and winchesters (HDA which can only be repaired >in a clean room). AFAIK winchester is just old nomenclature for fixed disks. What do you mean by winchesters? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 19 10:04:58 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: ROM emulation (was Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors) In-Reply-To: <20010718174227.71191.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1029.600T2900T9646049optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >Hopefully I haven't screwed the attribution here... >> > Quoting Mike Ford : >> > >> > > I bought something called a Romulator (something like that, >> > > http://www.romrocket.com/) that I could dump a file to over a serial >> > > link, >> > > and then it behaved in circuit exactly like an eprom. >I can recommend highly anyone doing firmware development to have one of >these. There was an EPROM emulator project a few months back in Allt om elektronik (local Elektor edition). Quite possibly, it's been published recently in your local Elektor, too. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. It's amazing how many useful pieces of equipment are disguised as domestic appliances: the machine for cleaning keyboard keycaps and shell cases does an excellent job of washing clothes, while the tumbling machine for drying them off also works for socks and shirts. The device in the kitchen for baking small spray-painted articles can be used for pizza and muffins. And so on... Pete Turnbull From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 19 17:16:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Re: MicroVAX equipment (Iggy Drougge) References: <509.600T850T9004991optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <15191.23616.584709.994029@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 19, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >No, they're large, heavy and winchesters (HDA which can only be repaired > >in a clean room). > > AFAIK winchester is just old nomenclature for fixed disks. What do you mean by > winchesters? The term "winchester" (taken from the IBM 3030 disk drive) implies a sealed HDA which cannot (or should not) be opened in an "ordinary" environment. -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 19 17:30:00 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010719152805.02f8d0e0@209.185.79.193> >My only gripe is that the Cisco 675 DSL router/modem they sold me MUST be >in routing mode, not bridging mode, and it does not have the capability to >do port forwarding. So you can't run a server to save your soul. So what's the deal with that? The Cisco wants to route to some IP address, fair enough just make the target of that IP address another router that happens to be running NAT, a Firewall, etc. A VAX works great for this, or an old PC, or a junked laptop, etc. You don't need port forwarding to run a server, you only need either a static IP address or a rendezvous protocol for finding your server. --Chuck From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jul 19 17:37:47 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <443.600T600T2934477optimus@canit.se> References: <443.600T600T2934477optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Jeff Hellige skrev: >> I forgot to mention that the other thing I changed was in the SCSI >>prefs. The machine had 'Synchronous Transfer' mode checked. I unchecked it >>it seems much more stable after that as well. >Doesn't synchronous mode allow higher transfer rates, though? I hooked a NEC CD-ROM up to it today and had to turn synchronous mode back on in order to get it to play with the CD-ROM. Stability went back out the window though, but not as bad as before. I'm going to remove the Seagate drive from it and put one of my Quantum Fireball's into it. I've always had excellent compatibility between Amiga's and the Quantum drives. Since there's nothing but a fresh OS 3.9 load on the drive, it won't be any big deal swapping them. No prefs or anything like that to worry about moving. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 19 17:43:45 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <15191.23616.584709.994029@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <509.600T850T9004991optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010719153949.02d94b80@209.185.79.193> At 06:16 PM 7/19/01 -0400, Dave wrote: >On July 19, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > AFAIK winchester is just old nomenclature for fixed disks. What do you > mean by > > winchesters? > > The term "winchester" (taken from the IBM 3030 disk drive) implies a >sealed HDA which cannot (or should not) be opened in an "ordinary" >environment. Does anyone know the actual reason that IBM picked the term "winchester" ? The revolutionary thing about this technology was that the HDA was in a sealed compartment with a closed loop air supply. This meant you could guarantee a low particulate count and thus safely fly the heads closer to the surface (greater density). Previous technologies had extensive filtration systems that purged the air inside the disk area and kept it clean but it really wanted to operate in an environment where the air was _already_ pretty clean. (ie a machine room with its own filtered air) Without the step of creating a sealed HDA assembly the modern 'hard drive' would never have been feasible! --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 19 17:46:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: another Quadra References: <20010719220009.ZBQG29255.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <004701c110a4$9f2704e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This particular '605 has one apparently "main" simm, which appears to be 4Mx32, and has two 4Mx32 EDO simms in a separate memory array. Anything with so little hard drive capacity and so little RAM capacity has to be fairly low-end. I didn't look inside the '650 on Tuesday, though I doubt it had more HDD or RAM. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: Re: another Quadra > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: > > Subject: another Quadra > > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:23:33 -0600 > > Organization: Erlacher Associates > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > I went by the thrift store that had the Quadra 650 the other day and it was, as > > I expected, gone. They had another one today, a '605, however, and it hadn't > > yet been priced, so, when I asked, they put the same $13.99 on it as the one on > > Tuesday. Now, Tuesday is "half-price-for-seniors" day, so that would have been > > $6.99, but this one will probably be gone by next Tuesday. I looked inside, and > > it has an 80MB drive, apparently 48MB (32MB of FPM + 16 MB of EDO) of memory, > > and a 25MHz 68040. > > > > I'll be down that way again this afternoon if anybody's interested. All I want > > is what it costs + shipping. > > Blah. > > Quadra 605 is kinda lowend. 68LC040 25, 4MB on board, one SIMM slot, > up to 36MB max (4MB + 32MB). LC475 is better in same box, same > logicboard except CPU is still crippled 68LC040/50. FPM not EDO, I > know because I tried EDO in my warmed over C610 (turned Q610 > freatures) , that refused to take it. Slot is LC III PDS type. > > Honestly, should had taken that Q650 in place of that thing. > > Both Quadra 700 (8 simms) and Q900 (whopping 16 simms) uses 30 pin > simms, other than that, most of Quadra are full 68040 25 to 40 and > uses 720pin simms, nubus slots. Except Q610 is 25MHz and limited > expansion (PDS slot only) and Q605 is pizza box with 68LC040 25. > "LC" in the 68LC040 has no FPU. > > Where I live I don't see Macs very much which is biggest reason I > begged yours for this Quadra like 650, even powerpc Mac. > Even just 68040 33 CPU alone it commands lot of cash on ebay which I > don't wish to do so. > > FYI, many Macs that uses 68LC040 can be swapped for full 68040 but > that incurs extra expenses which I have shirt to show. I know! Also > these machines often have cripped freatures or design of case that > limits the expansions that are associated with centris and some > performas makes them least interesting machines. The Q605 and LC475 > logicboards is one and same only difference is the jumper itself that > identifies it as such. This logicboard is direct drop-in in any LCII > and up series pizza boxes except original LC. IHMO these LCII and up > looks nicer than the performa or Q605 in appearance, ditto to > IIci/IIcx. > > Reason I wanted Q650 was it's features and right type of board to > transplant into IIci or IIcx with minimum cutting which I have this > IIci. Powerpc mac 7100, 8100 will also fit IIci and IIcx cases with > some cutting to the case. If you see cheap Q650, PPC 7100 or 8100, > I'm interested also. > > I mark you, I'm willing to pay for cost and shipping on these models. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > > > > Dick > > > From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jul 19 17:55:31 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010719171821.Y32918-100000@localhost> On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > I've had 256k DSL for about 9 months now Is 256 kbps common for DSL or cable? A network admin at the local cable company here (who handles my cable modem service) told me that their infrastructure can do 10 Mbps to each modem, but that the software in the modem was configured to limit that to 2 Mbps. I don't know if the software limit story is true, but I can vouch for the 2 Mbps effective rate. I've had FTP transfers in excess of 200 KBps before. > had about 37 minutes of down time. I've had more than that. Sometimes it happens several times per week, but there have also been periods of several months without problems. Only one outage has lasted over 30 minutes. It's been good enough for me to run this mail server on it. Speaking of running servers: my cable company supports it. I've never came out and asked them directly, but all the evidence is there. There are explicit provisions in the service agreement against running servers _for_other_parties_, but no other mention. IPs are assigned via DHCP (I probably ought to ask if static IPs are available), but you always get the same IP until you change NICs. Finally, I've been running a mail server over my link for a while, and my logs show that the cable company has tested it for open relaying (which I don't do) several times. I have never gottan a call from them asking me to not have the server up. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 19 17:00:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Light Pens In-Reply-To: <3B563399.F320DCC@chartermi.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Jul 18, 1 08:10:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2151 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010719/7c268278/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 19 16:42:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: repairing a DEC VT420 In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jul 18, 1 05:38:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 359 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010719/62e28145/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 19 17:11:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:53 2005 Subject: Light Pens ... In-Reply-To: <003201c11000$97cca460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 18, 1 09:06:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4814 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010719/d74812d0/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 19 18:00:56 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment (Chuck McManis) References: <509.600T850T9004991optimus@canit.se> <5.0.0.25.2.20010719153949.02d94b80@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <15191.26280.725290.321558@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 19, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > AFAIK winchester is just old nomenclature for fixed disks. What do you > > mean by > > > winchesters? > > > > The term "winchester" (taken from the IBM 3030 disk drive) implies a > >sealed HDA which cannot (or should not) be opened in an "ordinary" > >environment. > > Does anyone know the actual reason that IBM picked the term "winchester" ? There are two reasons...First, it was developed in Winchester, England, and stored 30MB on each of two platter surfaces. Second, the model number, 3030, made people think of the Winchester model 3030 rifle. -Dave McGuire From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 19 18:25:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes References: <20010719171821.Y32918-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <000e01c110aa$21f0d2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There's quite a bit of competition, at least rhetorically, between QWEST, our local phone service provider, and AT&T, which is the local cable company. Both offer "high-bandwidth" (DSL/Cable) internet service. The party line from AT&T is that they offer 256Kb up and down, while QWEST guarantees that you get at least that. I have DSL from QWEST and they tell me (via their router, which could easily lie) that I normally have 640Kb down and 272 up. That speed isn't reflected in my transfer speeds, however. I seem to remember reading that the former RBOC's are required to provide a 256k minimal transfer rate in either direction, while the cable service providers have more latitude. Everyone I know who's got/had the AT&T cable modem service has had lower slower transfer rates. My understanding is that AT&T is provisioned such that they can provide the full 256Kb to one block (whatever that means, but presumably a city-block, since that's how they're physically structured) and that's what the customers on that block have to share. I find that a little hard to swallow, but it's possible, since these companies are run by bean-counters. Though the statistics my DSL modem software provide suggest I receive lots of bandwidth, my transfer speeds vary widely. I have made a few cursory tests, and found on one occasion, that when I used my notebook via dialup on the voice line, at 56Kb, I got faster transfer (concurrent transfer of the same file from the same place took WAY less time) than concurrently and through the same ISP via my DSL connection. Weird! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:55 PM Subject: Re: OT: DSL Woes > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > > > I've had 256k DSL for about 9 months now > > Is 256 kbps common for DSL or cable? > > A network admin at the local cable company here (who handles my cable > modem service) told me that their infrastructure can do 10 Mbps to each > modem, but that the software in the modem was configured to limit that to > 2 Mbps. I don't know if the software limit story is true, but I can vouch > for the 2 Mbps effective rate. I've had FTP transfers in excess of 200 > KBps before. > > > had about 37 minutes of down time. > > I've had more than that. Sometimes it happens several times per week, but > there have also been periods of several months without problems. Only one > outage has lasted over 30 minutes. It's been good enough for me to run > this mail server on it. > > Speaking of running servers: my cable company supports it. I've never > came out and asked them directly, but all the evidence is there. There > are explicit provisions in the service agreement against running servers > _for_other_parties_, but no other mention. IPs are assigned via DHCP (I > probably ought to ask if static IPs are available), but you always get the > same IP until you change NICs. Finally, I've been running a mail server > over my link for a while, and my logs show that the cable company has > tested it for open relaying (which I don't do) several times. I have > never gottan a call from them asking me to not have the server up. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Jul 19 18:28:40 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <20010719171821.Y32918-100000@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > > > > I've had 256k DSL for about 9 months now > > Is 256 kbps common for DSL or cable? > > A network admin at the local cable company here (who handles my cable > modem service) told me that their infrastructure can do 10 Mbps to each > modem, but that the software in the modem was configured to limit that to > 2 Mbps. I don't know if the software limit story is true, but I can vouch > for the 2 Mbps effective rate. I've had FTP transfers in excess of 200 > KBps before. Once you have firgured out your cable modem's IP address from its DHCP or ARP broadcasts, there is a snmp mib where you can see what you are limited to. My roadrunner cable modem has 384k upload 2m download transmission.127.1.1.3.1.3.1 = 384000 transmission.127.1.1.3.1.5.1 = 2000000 Originally the roadrunner folks had their configurations wrong and various broadcasts were entering the network that weren't supposed to be there unlike the DHCP or ARP). I was getting broadcasts for Novell get nearest servers, HP jet direct printservers and other oddities on other people's networks. For a while I had linux latd misconfigured to be going out my eth0 by mistake and I am sure that others were getting my LAT service broadcasts. :-) > > > had about 37 minutes of down time. > > I've had more than that. Sometimes it happens several times per week, but > there have also been periods of several months without problems. Only one > outage has lasted over 30 minutes. It's been good enough for me to run > this mail server on it. > When I first had mine installed the downtime was extensive each week. More recently availability has been good, but the usenet news server has sucked. Most recently it has been okay too. > Speaking of running servers: my cable company supports it. I've never > came out and asked them directly, but all the evidence is there. There > are explicit provisions in the service agreement against running servers > _for_other_parties_, but no other mention. IPs are assigned via DHCP (I > probably ought to ask if static IPs are available), but you always get the > same IP until you change NICs. Finally, I've been running a mail server > over my link for a while, and my logs show that the cable company has > tested it for open relaying (which I don't do) several times. I have > never gottan a call from them asking me to not have the server up. > I have had similar experiences. I use /etc/hosts.allow /etc/hosts.deny on my Linux box to limit accessibility for everything but ssh to my work domain. I see on the local homepage that various folks run servers for various things from gaming to backyard video cameras. The local phone company has the DSL infrastructure in place for itself (I have been in the frame relay switchroom where the DSL stuff hooks to their FR network and all the parts are there ready to go) but won't deploy it due to internal political reasons. There are one or more alternate providers in the area, at least one of which was affected by the large DSL company which went out of business several months ago. > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > -- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 19 12:54:07 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: NeXT (was (OT) Sgi Indy) In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo "Re: NeXT (was (OT) Sgi Indy)" (Jul 19, 12:08) References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995482603.3b55dbeb5a55e@mail.er-grp.com> <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995521977.3b5675b9e09cc@mail.er-grp.com> <10107190826.ZM11250@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995533708.3b56a38c7c83d@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: <10107191854.ZM11542@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 19, 12:08, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > Well, NeXT did a few things against unix traditions, NI didn't > probably work out well :-) > but objc, developing environment and the > windowing system certainly did. One really has to try those to see > how badly X11 sucks. I've heard good things about the development environment. I'm not overly impressed with the window manager, but I've seen much worse. And I can think of a few shortcomings of X11 (colour [mis]management for one) > If you end up with a corrupted NI db (badly corrupted) you can reset all > the NI information by booting single-user and > > cp -r /usr/template/client/etc/hostconfig /etc > cp -r /usr/template/client/etc/netinfo /etc/netinfo I did almost exactly that after poking about last week. Nice to know it was the right guess! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From brian at quarterbyte.com Thu Jul 19 18:43:52 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: scrap yard inventory Message-ID: <3B570E48.7976.3CDE64C5@localhost> Is there any progress on the stuff-for-sale website, Sellam? I was just thinking: how about setting up a similar page for where-stuff-can-be found? For example, I ran across an RH780 massbus controller today in a salvage shop today -- new in its shipping box, the whole set of cards in a backplane. I don't want it, and I don't think many of the subscribers of this list would want to get a few dozen emails of this sort every day, but it would be nice to be able to record the information. I picture a website where you could enter items found in shops as well as personal inventories of things we'd part with if asked. Location, item, price if known, date spotted, etc; and a way of checking it off: "gone", "I bought it", "it blew up", etc. A sort of very narrow inventory system for the world's scrap shops and basements. Would this be useful, or would it just make it too easy for dealers to vacuum up all the good stuff? Impossible to keep up- to-date, or worth the occasional stale entry? What do y'all think? Brian From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 19 18:33:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <509.600T850T9004991optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 19, 1 03:00:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010720/449fc10f/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 19 18:54:01 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Test: In-Reply-To: "John Allain" "Test:" (Jul 19, 14:25) References: <002b01c11080$22ace8e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <10107200054.ZM11780@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 19, 14:25, John Allain wrote: > Test =99% ? > > Hoping this turns off most if not all of the text encoding > that MS so thoughtfully provided for me . Not quite, it still is using a non-standard character set: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" Can anyone tell John how to set the character set to ISO-8859-1 (or ASCII) in Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 19 19:08:38 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <15191.26280.725290.321558@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 19, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > AFAIK winchester is just old nomenclature for fixed disks. What do you > > > mean by > > > > winchesters? > > > > > > The term "winchester" (taken from the IBM 3030 disk drive) implies a > > >sealed HDA which cannot (or should not) be opened in an "ordinary" > > >environment. > > > > Does anyone know the actual reason that IBM picked the term "winchester" ? > > There are two reasons...First, it was developed in Winchester, > England, and stored 30MB on each of two platter surfaces. Second, the > model number, 3030, made people think of the Winchester model 3030 > rifle. Rather minor correction - the Winchester rifle used 3030 caliber ammunition, but there were a number of models, the most famous being either the '94 or '96 (I'm having brain fade!). - don > > -Dave McGuire > From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 19 19:14:12 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Re: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment (Don Maslin) References: <15191.26280.725290.321558@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15191.30676.485290.258315@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 19, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > > AFAIK winchester is just old nomenclature for fixed disks. What do you > > > > mean by > > > > > winchesters? > > > > > > > > The term "winchester" (taken from the IBM 3030 disk drive) implies a > > > >sealed HDA which cannot (or should not) be opened in an "ordinary" > > > >environment. > > > > > > Does anyone know the actual reason that IBM picked the term "winchester" ? > > > > There are two reasons...First, it was developed in Winchester, > > England, and stored 30MB on each of two platter surfaces. Second, the > > model number, 3030, made people think of the Winchester model 3030 > > rifle. > > Rather minor correction - the Winchester rifle used 3030 caliber > ammunition, but there were a number of models, the most famous being > either the '94 or '96 (I'm having brain fade!). Ahh, I understand. Thanks for the correction...my knowledge of gun technology is very limited. -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 19 19:22:35 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: References: <509.600T850T9004991optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010719170818.034c8eb0@209.185.79.193> At 12:33 AM 7/20/01 +0100, Tony wrote: >A winchester has am HDA (Head Disk Assembly) which can only be taken >apart and repaired in a cleanroom. I don't have a cleanroom at home, so I >can't repair HDAs. Actually you can make a clean room fairly easily with a 10 gallon aquarium tank and a blower. First, find a tank that has polycarbonate (aka Lexan) sides (generally they are the cheap ones here.) Remove one side, cut two 6" diameter holes in the side. Now glue a pair of latex tubes (6" O.D.) on to the sides by overlapping about an inch, stretch the latex, and epoxy to the sides. Now tighten the end of the tubes by overlapping the edges to make their diameter approximately 1/4" less than that of your wrists. Build a new top for the tank using another piece of Polycarbonate (note you can do everything from the top but it gets crowded. Install a squirrel cage blower and a HEPA 0.1 micron filter. The filter is going to slow your airflow considerably so you want your blower to give you a net positive pressure _after_ it blows through the filter. Now create another hole in the top and cover it with three or four heater type filters. If you get the kind they sell for folks allergic to pollen they should be great. This is your "exit" smoke stack. It isn't filtering so much as trapping the particles that you are purging from the work space. Now put your disk and tools in the tank, put on the top, run the blower to "purge" the air (leave your hands out of the tubes for a minute or so), wash your hands really well, stick them through the tubes until your hands pop out the end and the tube is sealed on your wrist. Wait a bit more to purge any particulates you've introduced. Now fix the drive :-) I've seen heads replaced this way (in a hand isolation tank) but typically unless you have a head assembly handy you won't be able to do much in there. I can't remember where I saw the plans to build something like this but I believe it was the Amateur Scientist column. They also had you put on latex gloves but since you aren't worried about getting infected or anything from the drive I don't think you would need them. The trick here is that you don't need a clean "room" you only need a clean "workbench" area to work. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 19 19:25:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010719170818.034c8eb0@209.185.79.193> from "Chuck McManis" at Jul 19, 1 05:22:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010720/9d2b392c/attachment.ksh From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 19 20:06:13 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment References: Message-ID: <3B578405.3D3222D5@tiac.net> Don Maslin wrote: > > Rather minor correction - the Winchester rifle used 3030 caliber > ammunition, but there were a number of models, the most famous being > either the '94 or '96 (I'm having brain fade!). > > - don > Isn't that .308 for the 30-30. Maybe your thinking of the 303, which used .311? Gotta love a pre '64 mod 94! From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 19 20:18:34 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: OT: Coke/Pepsi (was: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <10107182306.ZM10816@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <751.601T1700T1385785optimus@canit.se> Pete Turnbull skrev: >On Jul 18, 11:21, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >> Shortly after that, the U.S.A. and USSR (CCCP) normalized diplomatic >> relations enough to import vodka and export Pepsi to Russia. >Definitely OT: one of my prized T-shirts is a Russian Pepsi one :-) (Semi-OT) A while ago, I bought an INTV3 console from a man at the fleamarket. Apart from the game, he was selling lots of Coke and Pepsi paraphernalia, including an unopened Soviet Pepsi. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 19 20:51:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: <01d901c11049$fb33fd70$05ffa8c0@hx.com> Message-ID: <576.601T1100T1714485optimus@canit.se> Jacek Artymiak skrev: >I'm looking for sources of inexpensive Digital Alpha CPUs and motherboards >for a hobby project I'm putting together with my friends. I tried eBay, but >there is not much Alpha gear to be found there. I'd be very grateful for >any pointers. There is usually half a dozen of AXPpci mobos on sale on eBay, you may pick them up at around 30 USD. Or are the supplies gone now? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Netiquette: it's not just a good idea, there's actually an RFC about it! For the full details, check out . From mcruse at acm.org Thu Jul 19 20:33:49 2001 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Eproms Available (was RE: IMSAI EPROMS) In-Reply-To: <78.16fa1e33.286ff085@aol.com> References: <78.16fa1e33.286ff085@aol.com> Message-ID: <0107191833490N.32184@bleem.home.net> Hi, I just saw this post. Do you still have any Eproms left? I could definately use a box of those. Mike Cruse On Saturday 30 June 2001 20:18, you wrote: > I fell behind in my reading and was catching up today when I came across > Joel A. Weder's posting from 8 Jun 2001 and the > responses on Eproms. > > One of my recent hauls included a box of Eproms. There was around 100 > tubes of 2708/2716/2732. A rough count shows around 1000 2708's, and > 125 or so each of the 2716's & 2732's. Since I will never need that > many, I would like to make them available to the list. > > For now and to be fair to all list members, I was thinking of dividing them > up into 45 (2708 35 ea, 2716 5 ea, 2732 5 ea) to a small box. I'll ask $5 > per box to cover shipping and handling. > > If you really want more than one box, we'll wait and see after those > wanting just one box have had their chance and then figure out shipping for > 'bulk' orders. > > Mike Thompson From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 19 20:34:41 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <15191.26280.725290.321558@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > There are two reasons...First, it was developed in Winchester, > England, and stored 30MB on each of two platter surfaces. Second, the > model number, 3030, made people think of the Winchester model 3030 > rifle. The model is 3340, not 3030. 3340s (and 3344s) are odd things - the platters are lubricated with silicone based oil, and the removable disk packs (3348s) _include_ the heads. When the disk pack is mounted (which can be done by hand, for maintenance), a rather complicated series of events connects the heads' wires, the air supply is sealed, and the whole head assembly is aligned so it floats on a cushion of air. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 19 20:41:59 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Re: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment (William Donzelli) References: <15191.26280.725290.321558@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15191.35943.555242.953243@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 19, William Donzelli wrote: > > There are two reasons...First, it was developed in Winchester, > > England, and stored 30MB on each of two platter surfaces. Second, the > > model number, 3030, made people think of the Winchester model 3030 > > rifle. > > The model is 3340, not 3030. 3340s (and 3344s) are odd things - the > platters are lubricated with silicone based oil, and the removable disk > packs (3348s) _include_ the heads. When the disk pack is mounted (which > can be done by hand, for maintenance), a rather complicated series of > events connects the heads' wires, the air supply is sealed, and the whole > head assembly is aligned so it floats on a cushion of air. I've seen references to "3030" in many books over the years...I'm nowhere near old enough to have been there though. -Dave McGuire From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 19 20:52:16 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <15191.35943.555242.953243@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > I've seen references to "3030" in many books over the years...I'm > nowhere near old enough to have been there though. It is a common urban-legendy mistake. A 3030 is a thing that is used with a 3820 printer (basically a printer buffer). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 21:22:27 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <3378.600T2650T2875979optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 19, 2001 04:47:53 AM Message-ID: <200107200222.f6K2MRV03545@shell1.aracnet.com> > >There are MP3 players for 68k Amiga's?!?! That's either rather gutsy, or > >pathetic, I'm not sure which. What do they do, decode them to another > >format and then play them? > > Keep in mind that I'm running a 25 MHz Amiga as my main (only) machine. That > doesn't mean I don't enjoy MP3s. =) > They decode in real time. A French bloke named Stephane Tavenard deserves most > of the credit for his tight assembler-coded MPEGA.library, which most players > use. Now that is *impressive*! > Since my stock A4000 is probably the absolute low-end for getting moderate > quality playback, I usually use a command-line player and a lot of buffering. > A faster '040 or an '060 won't be so limitated. An '060 may even replay > several MP3s at once, and there are pretty, skinnable programs such as > AmigaAMP or AMPlifier. =) Ah, now I see, you're running a A4000, which should mean a 68040 processor. Well, there is more than a little difference in speed between a A3000/25 and A4000/25 since I've got a 68030 and you've got a 68040. I'd love a faster CPU, but I can't justify it for a machine that I quite honestly have no real use for. I just like it :^) Out of curiousity, what else can you do on your 68040 while playing MP3's and how does it effect playback? I've got to admit to being curious about that one. > >The monitors I've got would probably crush a A3000! I might be able to put > >it in the wooden rack next to the desk, but the PDP-8/m sits where it would > >need to go, and I'm going to need to find more room in the rack for a > >PDP-8/e and Papertape reader/punch. > > We're running a 17" Compaq monitor on top of ours. A friend of mine runs a 19- > incher on top of his, IIRC- I'm talking either a 19-20" IBM P200 or a 21" Viewsonic P815. Those are *very* heavy monitors, and my A3000's case is already in bad shape. About the only system I'd consider setting under either of them would be something like my Sparc 20/712, which is built a lot sturdier. > What's an A2002? Is that the one with the slow phosphor? Not sure on what it is other than an Amiga monitor that can be used with both an Amiga 500 and a Commodore 64, plus it makes a decent enough TV. I've also got a 1702 and something like a 1802, I'm threatening to dig one of them out this weekend for a project I'm working on. Though I doubt I'll find the time. > >Don't need a backup system, and I've no desire to run Linux on anything but > >a fast x86 box. So I'm still trying to come up with a use for it. That was > >one of the reasons I bought it a Catweasel, however, the board didn't > >function as advertised thanks to the lack of software for it. Of course the > >Catweasel board is also why it's sitting in a monster ALR Server Tower at > >the moment! > > What software are you lacking? The Catweasel board (at least when I bought mine had the software to read Amiga, PC, C-64, and maybe Macintosh floppies. It was advertised as being able to read a lot more different formats. The problem is, it doesn't (or at least didn't) have any software to do that. > Amiga: (noun) The most technologically advanced computer that hardly anyone > cares about. > Use in sentence: "I wanted to buy an Amiga for its low price and great color > graphics, but everyone else seems to be using IBMs or Macintoshes. So, to > remain compatible with the rest of the world, I spent three times as much on a > Macintosh and got only half the graphics capability of an Amiga." Unfortunatly, this is no longer remotely true. If Gateway had followed through it might be, but they didn't. Which is why most of the Amiga comunity has moved on to either the Mac, BeOS, Linux, or Windows. Times change, what the Amiga did with style, modern Mac's and PC's do with brute force. Though as I was cursing this morning, even with MacOS 9.1 a Mac can't format a floppy and do something else. I love my G4/450, but that's just plain pathetic. I think that's the real reason Apple dropped the floppies from thier systems, they didn't want to write decent software to work with them. A 68k based system will blow the socks off of any Power Mac when it comes to doing anything floppy related! And I'm serious, I've tested it! I've no idea how pathetic Windows might be at this, as I try to avoid it. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 21:27:35 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 20, 2001 01:25:54 AM Message-ID: <200107200227.f6K2RZE03724@shell1.aracnet.com> Tony wrote: > More seriously, that's why I've not made a cleanbox yet. The drives I > want to be able to work on, and the ones I am likely to have some chance > of fixing are things like the 14" SA4000 units. Which need a _large_ > cleanbox. And, like everyone here, I have little enough space... I think you've a second problem besides the size issue, being able to handle something that big in a cleanbox seems rather impractical. It might work for 5.25" or 8" HD's, but I don't see it working for a 14" HD. How on earth could you get the leverage or whatever to crack it open! Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 19 21:34:59 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: <576.601T1100T1714485optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 20, 2001 02:51:22 AM Message-ID: <200107200234.f6K2Yxo03887@shell1.aracnet.com> > >I'm looking for sources of inexpensive Digital Alpha CPUs and motherboards > >for a hobby project I'm putting together with my friends. I tried eBay, but > >there is not much Alpha gear to be found there. I'd be very grateful for > >any pointers. > > There is usually half a dozen of AXPpci mobos on sale on eBay, you may pick > them up at around 30 USD. Or are the supplies gone now? I've not been looking at the DEC gear recently, but last I did look the number of Alpha boardc and CPUs seemed to have gone down drastically. I think the supply is drying up. Seriously, unless you need 64-bit, or are like me and running OpenVMS, the question becomes, why? What you're going to be able to find and afford isn't going to be that fast compared to a Pentium III or IV Motherboard and processor which is likely to cost less. Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 19 22:08:41 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: Re: Alpha CPUs & motherboards (Zane H. Healy) References: <576.601T1100T1714485optimus@canit.se> <200107200234.f6K2Yxo03887@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <15191.41145.545613.603804@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 19, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've not been looking at the DEC gear recently, but last I did look the number > of Alpha boardc and CPUs seemed to have gone down drastically. I think > the supply is drying up. Seriously, unless you need 64-bit, or are like me > and running OpenVMS, the question becomes, why? What you're going to be > able to find and afford isn't going to be that fast compared to a > Pentium III or IV Motherboard and processor which is likely to cost less. I dunno, man. *I* sure won't run Intel-architecture machines. I'd be seriously surprised if Alphas were drying up. There were a LOT of them made. Machines of which there were far fewer, and that are far older, can still be found readily. Having no better explanation, I respectfully submit that this "shortage" of Alpha hardware is due to random market fluctuations. -Dave McGuire From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jul 19 22:36:55 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 19, 2001 11:08:41 PM Message-ID: <200107200336.f6K3atx11066@narnia.int.dittman.net> I've got a few spare Alpha motherboards sitting around. I've got PC164, EB164, and PC64 motherboards. If anyone needs any as a spare, let me know. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 22:58:01 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: <200107200336.f6K3atx11066@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010720035801.87019.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > I've got a few spare Alpha motherboards sitting around. > I've got PC164, EB164, and PC64 motherboards. If anyone > needs any as a spare, let me know. What are the differences? I have a "noname" board, AT form-factor. I think it's the AXPPci133 or something similar. I got it running *BSD off of the SCSI port a long time ago and haven't done much with it in the past year. Thought about trying to follow those instructions for loading OpenVMS. It's really low on the priority scale. At one point, this was my fastest machine. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 19 23:01:41 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: OT: Coke/Pepsi (was: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <751.601T1700T1385785optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010720040141.64452.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > (Semi-OT) A while ago, I bought an INTV3 console from a man at the > fleamarket. > Apart from the game, he was selling lots of Coke and Pepsi paraphernalia, > including an unopened Soviet Pepsi. Foo! Mine is opened and empty. The only thing that makes it interesting is that it came from Vostok Station (got it at the McMurdo "Skua Central", kinda like a no-fee Thrift Store - you leave good stuff behind when you ship out and go "shopping" for stuff when you need it). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mbg at world.std.com Thu Jul 19 23:19:27 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes References: Message-ID: <200107200419.AAA09917@world.std.com> If I could get a copy of RSX11M+ V3.0 from someone, I could package it up with the Mentec license (the way the RT V5.3 kit is) and try to contact the appropriate people to get it up on gatekeeper. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 19 22:30:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: scrap yard inventory In-Reply-To: <3B570E48.7976.3CDE64C5@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Brian Knittel wrote: > Is there any progress on the stuff-for-sale website, Sellam? Got bogged down with VCF East preparation. It should be wrapped up a week or two afterwards. > I picture a website where you could enter items found in shops as well > as personal inventories of things we'd part with if asked. Location, > item, price if known, date spotted, etc; and a way of checking it off: > "gone", "I bought it", "it blew up", etc. A sort of very narrow > inventory system for the world's scrap shops and basements. An interesting idea. It could certainly work. I can try to improvise something like this as part of the VCF Marketplace site. Then I can try to charge the various shops whose inventories are being listed a listing fee :) > Would this be useful, or would it just make it too easy for dealers to > vacuum up all the good stuff? Impossible to keep up- to-date, or worth > the occasional stale entry? I'm sure there's both good and bad points to this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From wrking at dadaboom.com Thu Jul 19 23:36:03 2001 From: wrking at dadaboom.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: RSX11M+ v3.0 Distribution Message-ID: Following up on my previous posting, I've been made aware that all of the DECUS RSX Sig tapes are already available on-line. Cool. I thought I was going to have my 15 minutes of fame. I'm going to pursue the possibility that it's legal to post the RSX11M+ v 3.0 distribution on-line. I think I'd like to have a signed agreement with Mentec that this will be okay. I don't want someone to introduce me to the DMCA the hard way :-). Hopefully Mentec will answer my email. I can handle the legal side of this (it's a good thing my father is a retired attorney), but could someone give me some hints as to the technical side of posting the tapes? There are two tapes, one is the distribution, and the other is standalone BRU. Well, I also have DECnet, DECmail and update E tapes as well... I'll keep you posted. Thanks, Bill From mbg at world.std.com Thu Jul 19 23:44:00 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards Message-ID: <200107200444.AAA15004@world.std.com> I might be interested in a PC164 and CPU, if you have a spare... Megan From eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com Fri Jul 20 00:16:33 2001 From: eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: RSX11M+ v3.0 Distribution In-Reply-To: "William King"'s message of "Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:36:03 -0700" References: Message-ID: "William King" writes: > I'm going to pursue the possibility that it's legal to post the RSX11M+ v > 3.0 distribution on-line. I think I'd like to have a signed agreement with > Mentec that this will be okay. When you ask them, make sure that you tell them that it's for use with Supnik's SIMH, for which it is *already* licensed. Otherwise they'll almost certainly say "no". For that matter, I personally wouldn't have asked, since it's clear that Supnik did already arrange a license (for SIMH only). At this point, if they say "no", it will really muddy the issue. In general, when you ask a company for permission to do anything, the answer will be "no", just because that's the safe and easy answer, and doesn't involve any research or lawyers. So when one already has permission to do something, asking for permission again can only cause grief. Note: I'm speaking entirely of the general case; none of this is intended in any way to be critical of Mentec. From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 00:35:55 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: > My only gripe is that the Cisco 675 DSL router/modem they sold me MUST be > in routing mode, not bridging mode, and it does not have the capability to > do port forwarding. So you can't run a server to save your soul. > You just need new firmware for your modem :) Go to: http://www.users.qwest.net/~rlutton/ADSL I'm running 2.3.5.012 and it has NAT and everything! I supply FTP to a limited number of people for pickups and dropoffs, and regularly telnet in from work to read email... I haven't yet set up a web server, but once I get the CGI to read the cameras I'll have un-real time access to internal and external security cameras.... (and the idiot who lets his dog IBM in my yard will get a visit from animal control)... Clint From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 00:43:16 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <15191.23616.584709.994029@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Winchester actually refers to a head that flys on an air cushion above the media. Developed, one would assume, by a guy named Winchester... Contamination inside the HDA is a major issue because a dust particle can get between the head and media and scrape off the coating, creating more dust, scraping off more coating, until the head doesn't fly anymore, and scrapes off the rest of the coating and makes a really pretty groove where your data used to be :) Also, the HDA isn't actually sealed. There is a filtered air path into the HDA to prevent pressure changes due to temperature and 'oilcanning'. A curious feature of sealed boxes is they collect water... Basically, when the air inside heats up it expands and pushes out through whatever imperfection in the sealing exists. When in cools down, in draws in outside air (including water) through the same path. The water condenses, and the cycle repeats. After a few months, you end up with several inches of water in the 'sealed' box. Clint On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 19, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > >No, they're large, heavy and winchesters (HDA which can only be repaired > > >in a clean room). > > > > AFAIK winchester is just old nomenclature for fixed disks. What do you mean by > > winchesters? > > The term "winchester" (taken from the IBM 3030 disk drive) implies a > sealed HDA which cannot (or should not) be opened in an "ordinary" > environment. > > -Dave McGuire > > From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 00:57:45 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010719170818.034c8eb0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: Wear gloves. Your hands will flake off dead skin pretty much all the time, and just one flake is all that is required to ruin your hard work... Also, if you can get clean room wipes, buy a bag, and wipe down everything inside the box with them. If you make a little airlock you can pass stuff back out, otherwise put them inside a plastic bag to keep the contaminates from circulating... clint On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 12:33 AM 7/20/01 +0100, Tony wrote: > >A winchester has am HDA (Head Disk Assembly) which can only be taken > >apart and repaired in a cleanroom. I don't have a cleanroom at home, so I > >can't repair HDAs. > > Actually you can make a clean room fairly easily with a 10 gallon aquarium > tank and a blower. > > First, find a tank that has polycarbonate (aka Lexan) sides (generally they > are the cheap ones here.) Remove one side, cut two 6" diameter holes in the > side. Now glue a pair of latex tubes (6" O.D.) on to the sides by > overlapping about an inch, stretch the latex, and epoxy to the sides. Now > tighten the end of the tubes by overlapping the edges to make their > diameter approximately 1/4" less than that of your wrists. > > Build a new top for the tank using another piece of Polycarbonate (note you > can do everything from the top but it gets crowded. Install a squirrel cage > blower and a HEPA 0.1 micron filter. The filter is going to slow your > airflow considerably so you want your blower to give you a net positive > pressure _after_ it blows through the filter. Now create another hole in > the top and cover it with three or four heater type filters. If you get the > kind they sell for folks allergic to pollen they should be great. This is > your "exit" smoke stack. It isn't filtering so much as trapping the > particles that you are purging from the work space. > > Now put your disk and tools in the tank, put on the top, run the blower to > "purge" the air (leave your hands out of the tubes for a minute or so), > wash your hands really well, stick them through the tubes until your hands > pop out the end and the tube is sealed on your wrist. Wait a bit more to > purge any particulates you've introduced. Now fix the drive :-) > > I've seen heads replaced this way (in a hand isolation tank) but typically > unless you have a head assembly handy you won't be able to do much in there. > > I can't remember where I saw the plans to build something like this but I > believe it was the Amateur Scientist column. They also had you put on latex > gloves but since you aren't worried about getting infected or anything from > the drive I don't think you would need them. > > The trick here is that you don't need a clean "room" you only need a clean > "workbench" area to work. > > --Chuck > > > > From workstations at poczta.onet.pl Fri Jul 20 01:25:13 2001 From: workstations at poczta.onet.pl (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards References: <576.601T1100T1714485optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <024501c110e4$bc56af30$05ffa8c0@hx.com> > There is usually half a dozen of AXPpci mobos on sale on eBay, you may pick > them up at around 30 USD. Or are the supplies gone now? They're gone. I'm looking for the lower end motherboards and 166MHz or 233MHz Alphas. Jacek -- Darmowy komunikator internetowy - zainstaluj OnetKomunikator [ http://ok.onet.pl ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 20 01:26:08 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Bob Shannon "Re: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment" (Jul 19, 21:06) References: <3B578405.3D3222D5@tiac.net> Message-ID: <10107200726.ZM12009@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 19, 21:06, Bob Shannon wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > > Rather minor correction - the Winchester rifle used 3030 caliber > > ammunition, but there were a number of models, the most famous being > > either the '94 or '96 (I'm having brain fade!). > Isn't that .308 for the 30-30. Maybe your thinking of the 303, which used > .311? Yes, the name 30-30 comes from the 30-calibre bullet (which is actually .308") and the original load was 30 grains of powder. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 20 01:20:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >regularly telnet in from work to read email... I haven't yet >set up a web server, but once I get the CGI to read the cameras >I'll have un-real time access to internal and external security >cameras.... (and the idiot who lets his dog IBM in my yard will >get a visit from animal control)... Why not save a frame of video to the hard drive every few seconds, then watch the file at night? From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Fri Jul 20 02:46:45 2001 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Reading data from a CDC Hawk Drive Message-ID: As part of an emulator project I need to read data from many CDC Hawk packs. I have a drive and I believe it is an SMD interface. The drive also seems to be known as a DD1600. Does anyone have any details on this drive? Two possible options occured to me:- 1. Obtain (?) an SMD controller card for a PC and try to access the drive using this - and an appropriate amount of C. 2. Use a QBUS SMD controller in my PDP11 and get at the data that way. Any thoughts gratefully received. (BTW The machine I am emulating is an old British minicomputer called the Molecular.) Kevin Murrell ------------- www.ps8computing.co.uk From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Jul 20 02:56:35 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Cray on ebay In-Reply-To: <01071923212300.00373@jos> References: <01071923212300.00373@jos> Message-ID: <14803.212.153.190.3.995615795.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Not anymore. It's now going for DM 6000 (~ $2900). Intrestingly, there used to be (and stillmay be) a larger Cray availabe at the CWI/SARA in Amsterdam. Last time I was there (early 2000), I could take it away for free, but I had then to take everything! I.e. not only the CPU box but also the powerplant, power converter and cooling system. All together a space as large as 3 40 foot sea containers, a little bit more than my hobby room can handle. Ed > > It's OT , since less then 10 years old, but a "real Cray" has crept up > on the german ebay site. > > Currently less than 200 USD.... > > > Jos From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 20 03:22:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors In-Reply-To: <200107190634.f6J6YE803138@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Joel Weder" at Jul 18, 2001 11:51:38 PM Message-ID: >> Yes, it'd be great to put together a learning system that way, IF the person >> had the skill and determination to pull it off. This very scenario is why I >> suggested (back on Sunday I think) that a good way to go would be to pick up >> a 68HC11 Evaluation Board (EVBU or EVM). My EVBU (which is currently built >But if you have everything already done for you do you learn the >basics? The heart and heat of this discussion is WHAT exactly it is you want to learn. I don't believe in reinventing the wheel, if a SBC etc. fills the need there has to be a VERY good reason why I don't drop it in and move on to the next stage of the problem. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 20 04:46:44 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <001001c11053$05f5a840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 18, 1 10:03:48 am Message-ID: >I can recommend you consider that the difference between the fastest speed and >the optimal speed comes down to a number of things. Consider one case, >wherein >we speeded the operation of a multi-computer security system by reducing the >baud rate of the monitor terminals from 9600 to 1200. That reduced the amount >of idle (ENQ/ACK) traffic by 90%. > >Moreover, lots of I/O tasks require too much speed if you have to test a flag >before fetching each byte. However, if your processor is running at a rate >synchronized with the transfer, you only have to check the flag once, then >use a >loop tuned for the exact length of the transfer cycle. As Tony points >out, it's >based on the externally imposed rate, and if your oscillator doesn't >synchronize >with that, you have problems. The nice thing about micros is that there are so many right ways of doing things. From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Jul 20 05:31:33 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: insignificant finds Message-ID: <995625093.3b5808855cc6c@mail.er-grp.com> Well, I didn't find a Symbolics LispM nor did I find a -64 Mustang but I did find Programming the PET/CBM by West and Pet/CBM Personal Computer Guide by Adam Osborne and Carrol S. Donahue. I also found a Simon's Basic module + Docs. Programming the PET/CBM was an especially nice find, since the only version I had previously was an old photocopy and the book is in mint condition. Now I can probably get enough motivation to actually fix my 3040 (or was it 4040). Still looking for that Mustang. -- jht From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Fri Jul 20 06:42:21 2001 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: DEC LP25 (help?) Message-ID: Hi, I'm new to the list, so just a quick bit about me - I'm in my 3rd year of a 4 year MEng Software Engineering degree at UMIST, UK, and I'm quite happily collecting machines (much to the annoyance of my parents :&) Anyway - the point of the mail is... I've been given an LP25, and it's not a happy beastie :&( When you turn it on, it's status display says "P" (power fault), and lo and behold, it's right. There's a definate lack of any regulated voltages on the motherboard, the only voltage there is the 38V RAW voltage, which is within limits. So I've decided that the power board is at fault. The Maintainance Manual says "Check fuses..." which I've done - all fine. So I figure there's a fault on the power board. Problem is, I don't have any schematics for the power board, so I can't really test it, without a lot of trial and error. I'd be very grateful if someone could point me at somewhere I might find something useful, or even lend me the details, if you've got them :&) (oh, and if anyone in the UK has a spare VMS 5.x docset up for grabs... or perhaps a DECwriter :&) -- Matt --- E-mail: matt@pkl.net, matt@knm.yi.org, matt@printf.net matt@m-techdiagnostics.ltd.uk, matthew.london@stud.umist.ac.uk mattl@vcd.student.utwente.nl, mlondon@mail.talk-101.com Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 20 07:19:47 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 19, 2001 08:58:01 PM Message-ID: <200107201219.f6KCJlT11903@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I've got a few spare Alpha motherboards sitting around. > > I've got PC164, EB164, and PC64 motherboards. If anyone > > needs any as a spare, let me know. > > What are the differences? I have a "noname" board, AT form-factor. I think > it's the AXPPci133 or something similar. I got it running *BSD off of the > SCSI port a long time ago and haven't done much with it in the past year. The PC164 supports the 21164A, the EB164 supports the 21164, and the PC64 supports the 21064A. > Thought about trying to follow those instructions for loading OpenVMS. It's > really low on the priority scale. I installed OpenVMS on my Multia and added it to my cluster, but one of the patches broke something and the Multia quit being able to boot into the cluster. I later upgraded to V7.2-1 and the Multia patch doesn't work with that version. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 20 07:23:29 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: from "Megan" at Jul 20, 2001 12:44:00 AM Message-ID: <200107201223.f6KCNTq11929@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I might be interested in a PC164 and CPU, if you have a spare... I don't have any spare CPUs, but you can generally find those on eBay. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 20 08:10:12 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes References: <200107200419.AAA09917@world.std.com> Message-ID: <005501c1111d$4fcad060$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Megan said: > If I could get a copy of RSX11M V3.0 from someone, I could > package it up with the Mentec license... FWIW, RSX11M is my favorite Pre-VAX OS, and I've got an 11/34 sitting here. John A. From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 08:14:32 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: insignificant finds In-Reply-To: <995625093.3b5808855cc6c@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: A buddy of mine has a 64-1/2 mustang in rebuildable shape for sale... Where abouts are you? The car is in Colorado.... Clint On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > > Well, I didn't find a Symbolics LispM nor did I find a -64 Mustang but I > did find Programming the PET/CBM by West and Pet/CBM Personal Computer > Guide by Adam Osborne and Carrol S. Donahue. I also found a Simon's Basic > module + Docs. > > Programming the PET/CBM was an especially nice find, since the only > version I had previously was an old photocopy and the book is in > mint condition. > > Now I can probably get enough motivation to actually fix my 3040 (or was it > 4040). Still looking for that Mustang. > > -- > jht > > From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Jul 20 08:22:42 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: <15191.41145.545613.603804@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 19, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I've not been looking at the DEC gear recently, but last I did look the number > > of Alpha boardc and CPUs seemed to have gone down drastically. I think > > the supply is drying up. > > I'd be seriously surprised if Alphas were drying up. There were a > LOT of them made. Machines of which there were far fewer, and that > are far older, can still be found readily. > > Having no better explanation, I respectfully submit that this > "shortage" of Alpha hardware is due to random market fluctuations. > I wonder how much of it is due to businesses sucking up spares to keep their real work going for the long term now that Compaq has EOLed the line (prematurely, many would say!!) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jul 20 08:23:31 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: RSX11M+ v3.0 Distribution References: Message-ID: <3B5830D3.67E27417@idirect.com> >William King wrote: > Following up on my previous posting, I've been made aware that all of the > DECUS RSX Sig tapes are already available on-line. Cool. I thought I was > going to have my 15 minutes of fame. Jerome Fine replies: Well, easy come, easy go! > I'm going to pursue the possibility that it's legal to post the RSX11M+ v > 3.0 distribution on-line. I think I'd like to have a signed agreement with > Mentec that this will be okay. I don't want someone to introduce me to the > DMCA the hard way :-). Hopefully Mentec will answer my email. I can handle > the legal side of this (it's a good thing my father is a retired attorney), > but could someone give me some hints as to the technical side of posting the > tapes? There are two tapes, one is the distribution, and the other is > standalone BRU. Megan Gentry has stated that she will take care of that SMALL detail for you! You can e-mail her at: "Megan " if you have not already seen her post sent a few minutes before your post to which this is a reply. Her post stated: ================================================== If I could get a copy of RSX11M+ V3.0 from someone, I could package it up with the Mentec license (the way the RT V5.3 kit is) and try to contact the appropriate people to get it up on gatekeeper. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ ================================================== > Well, I also have DECnet, DECmail and update E tapes as well... I'll keep > you posted. > > Thanks, > Bill Please keep us posted and contact Megan - I suspect that she will be able to take care of all of the legal hassle for you (and everyone else). I would have sent this to you privately, but I can't see that "dadaboom.com" is a valid site - if it is, please let us know on your next post and if you want any of these messages to be private. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Jul 20 08:59:40 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: insignificant finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <995637580.3b58394c09c4c@mail.er-grp.com> Quoting "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" : > > A buddy of mine has a 64-1/2 mustang in rebuildable shape for sale... > Where abouts are you? The car is in Colorado.... > Argh! If you hop over two ponds eastwards you get to Finland. The freight would kill me (I've been asking around and it's a lot) but maybe someday... Thanks for the offer though, nice to know they're still available (for limited values of "available"). -- jht From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 20 09:10:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:54 2005 Subject: Intro to Microprocessors References: from "Joel Weder" at Jul 18, 2001 11:51:38 PM Message-ID: <002a01c11125$c9020720$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Actually, the original title implied that one wanted to learn about microprocessors. I pointed out that learming about micorPROCESSORs, which are hardware devices, was a very different task from learning about microCOMPUTERs, which is essentially a course in programming and operating systems. The suggestion that an evaluation board was a good choice for the former is one with which I have little difficulty. My own preference is for as little dedicated hardware as possible, since, as I've maintained, less is better. The fact is, however, that some knowledge of programming is certainly warranted, since all the microprocessor hardware you want won't solve a problem at all without effectively constructed code. This requires knowledge of microCOMPUTING. While microCOMPUTING requires little knowledge of hardware, microPROCESSORs won't do much without it. I like the idea of using that evaluation board for the 68HC11, but it doesn't offer any more opportunity to learn about the hardware elements, the microPROCESSORs, because all the hardware is already done for you. With the application of that emulator cable that you can attach to the evaluation board, you can learn a fair amount about the hardware in a target system, since the target responds to stimuli provided by the cable. However, it still runs at the rate determined by the evaluation circuit, though it's possible to use a clock from the target. That requires the clock to be carried by the emuator cable, however, and I wouldn't recommend that in a residential area unless you want to see the neighbors carrying torches and pitchforks. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:22 AM Subject: Re: Intro to Microprocessors > >> Yes, it'd be great to put together a learning system that way, IF the person > >> had the skill and determination to pull it off. This very scenario is why I > >> suggested (back on Sunday I think) that a good way to go would be to pick up > >> a 68HC11 Evaluation Board (EVBU or EVM). My EVBU (which is currently built > > >But if you have everything already done for you do you learn the > >basics? > > The heart and heat of this discussion is WHAT exactly it is you want to > learn. I don't believe in reinventing the wheel, if a SBC etc. fills the > need there has to be a VERY good reason why I don't drop it in and move on > to the next stage of the problem. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 20 09:11:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 18, 1 10:03:48 am Message-ID: <003001c11125$e27a1bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> As you get close to the limits, there are plenty of wrong ones as well. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:46 AM Subject: Re: Apple II for intro to microprocessors > >I can recommend you consider that the difference between the fastest speed and > >the optimal speed comes down to a number of things. Consider one case, > >wherein > >we speeded the operation of a multi-computer security system by reducing the > >baud rate of the monitor terminals from 9600 to 1200. That reduced the amount > >of idle (ENQ/ACK) traffic by 90%. > > > >Moreover, lots of I/O tasks require too much speed if you have to test a flag > >before fetching each byte. However, if your processor is running at a rate > >synchronized with the transfer, you only have to check the flag once, then > >use a > >loop tuned for the exact length of the transfer cycle. As Tony points > >out, it's > >based on the externally imposed rate, and if your oscillator doesn't > >synchronize > >with that, you have problems. > > The nice thing about micros is that there are so many right ways of doing > things. > > > From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 20 10:06:39 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: VCF East Want list References: Message-ID: <003601c1112d$94691640$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Hi, copy of my want list just posted to: http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/bbs.php ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Name: John Allain E-mail: allain@panix.com Date: 07/20/2001 07:01:58 AM PDT Subject: Items I'll be looking for. Some things that I could really use at the VCF are: DEC MMJ cables, AUI networking cables, DECmate III software, DEC compatible SCSI CD-ROM drive. Also have some interest in QBUS Pertec, SCSI, and SMD controllers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 20 10:26:39 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: Re: Alpha CPUs & motherboards (Bill Gunshannon) References: <15191.41145.545613.603804@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15192.19887.354678.871963@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 20, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > Having no better explanation, I respectfully submit that this > > "shortage" of Alpha hardware is due to random market fluctuations. > > I wonder how much of it is due to businesses sucking up spares to keep > their real work going for the long term now that Compaq has EOLed the > line (prematurely, many would say!!) That would be downright silly, because they haven't EOLed the line...they've announced that the WILL EOL it, in what should be a couple of years. -Dave McGuire From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 20 11:05:53 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: DIY cleanbox (was: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010719170818.034c8eb0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Actually you can make a clean room fairly easily with a 10 gallon aquarium > tank and a blower. For those who are too lazy, or of dubious skill with hand tools, Harbor Freight Tools sells extremely cheap (<$100) abrasive blast cabinets that reguire little modification to match chuck's description. They have a door that needs only a little more weatherstripping, a window, and attached gloves. The gloves might be a little too heavy for the purpose, but could be cut and spliced to install lighter weight ones. Add a good fan and some filters, . . . -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 20 11:17:22 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 20, 2001 11:26:39 AM Message-ID: <200107201617.f6KGHM712885@narnia.int.dittman.net> > On July 20, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > Having no better explanation, I respectfully submit that this > > > "shortage" of Alpha hardware is due to random market fluctuations. > > > > I wonder how much of it is due to businesses sucking up spares to keep > > their real work going for the long term now that Compaq has EOLed the > > line (prematurely, many would say!!) > > That would be downright silly, because they haven't EOLed the > line...they've announced that the WILL EOL it, in what should be a > couple of years. There is a lot of panic about the future EOL of the Alpha, with a lot of people equating that to the end of OpenVMS, which is wrong. This is just another architecture transition. I would have preferred that the Alpha go on, but the real point is the OS, not the CPU. I can see people trying to stock up spares ahead of the EOL, though. It would be better to grab them while they are plentiful and cheap than to wait until the EOL when people will want to stockpile some of the items that will be harder to get later. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 20 11:30:24 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: Re: Alpha CPUs & motherboards (Eric Dittman) References: <200107201617.f6KGHM712885@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15192.23712.464298.847132@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 20, Eric Dittman wrote: > > That would be downright silly, because they haven't EOLed the > > line...they've announced that the WILL EOL it, in what should be a > > couple of years. > > There is a lot of panic about the future EOL of the Alpha, with > a lot of people equating that to the end of OpenVMS, which is > wrong. This is just another architecture transition. I would Yup. > have preferred that the Alpha go on, but the real point is the > OS, not the CPU. Well, for some folks, maybe. If someone sticks me in a project with a crappy OS, I will find the source and fix it (unless it's Windoze, of course, but I don't consider that an OS!)...whereas if someone sticks me with a crappy processor, well, there's little one can do. > I can see people trying to stock up spares ahead of the EOL, > though. It would be better to grab them while they are > plentiful and cheap than to wait until the EOL when people > will want to stockpile some of the items that will be harder > to get later. Good point. But the EOL is *years* away. Isn't this a little premature, even for the "careful folk"? -Dave McGuire From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Jul 20 11:56:57 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Anyone need some LN-03 toner refills? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720095517.02f612b0@agora.rdrop.com> ...for cost of shipping? Also usable in most Ricoh engine based laser printers. Have five complete, and a sixth partial. -jim jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 20 11:59:09 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 20, 2001 12:30:24 PM Message-ID: <200107201659.f6KGx9712966@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > That would be downright silly, because they haven't EOLed the > > > line...they've announced that the WILL EOL it, in what should be a > > > couple of years. > > > > There is a lot of panic about the future EOL of the Alpha, with > > a lot of people equating that to the end of OpenVMS, which is > > wrong. This is just another architecture transition. I would > > Yup. > > > have preferred that the Alpha go on, but the real point is the > > OS, not the CPU. > > Well, for some folks, maybe. If someone sticks me in a project with a > crappy OS, I will find the source and fix it (unless it's Windoze, of > course, but I don't consider that an OS!)...whereas if someone sticks > me with a crappy processor, well, there's little one can do. I meant the point is the OS (OpenVMS) and not the CPU (VAX, Alpha, IPF), not the OS vs. the CPU in general. > > I can see people trying to stock up spares ahead of the EOL, > > though. It would be better to grab them while they are > > plentiful and cheap than to wait until the EOL when people > > will want to stockpile some of the items that will be harder > > to get later. > > Good point. But the EOL is *years* away. Isn't this a little > premature, even for the "careful folk"? Not really. For some of the odd-ball stuff, the sooner the better (just ask anyone that has to keep a VAX going that uses the Pro3x0- based console). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 12:10:38 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: References: <15191.41145.545613.603804@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > >> On July 19, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> > I've not been looking at the DEC gear recently, but last I did look >>the number >> > of Alpha boardc and CPUs seemed to have gone down drastically. I think >> > the supply is drying up. >> >> I'd be seriously surprised if Alphas were drying up. There were a >> LOT of them made. Machines of which there were far fewer, and that >> are far older, can still be found readily. >> >> Having no better explanation, I respectfully submit that this >> "shortage" of Alpha hardware is due to random market fluctuations. >> > >I wonder how much of it is due to businesses sucking up spares to keep >their real work going for the long term now that Compaq has EOLed the >line (prematurely, many would say!!) What I noticed was remaining stock being dumped on eBay and going into the hands of Hobbyists. Most of these hobbyists probably being clueless Linux users that will toss the boards and CPU's (or systems) when they're done with them since thats what you do with an Intel box, never considering that someone might want to run a *real* OS on the hardware. Yes, I'm feeling pesimistic, and unlike a time nearly 10 years ago now, I don't think much of the average Linux user. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 20 12:12:48 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: (OT) Sgi Indy In-Reply-To: <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 10:09:15PM +0000 References: <3B54FE8D.ED6AA5EC@texoma.net> <10107180805.ZM10212@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <995482603.3b55dbeb5a55e@mail.er-grp.com> <10107182309.ZM10825@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010720121248.R9105@mrbill.net> On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 10:09:15PM +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > The chapter did mention NIS (yp) so that *might* be an option. > No, NIS is *never* an option ;-) Only in the case that putting a shotgun under your chin and pulling the trigger, is also an option.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 12:22:17 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: <200107201659.f6KGx9712966@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 20, 2001 12:30:24 PM Message-ID: >> Good point. But the EOL is *years* away. Isn't this a little >> premature, even for the "careful folk"? > >Not really. For some of the odd-ball stuff, the sooner the better >(just ask anyone that has to keep a VAX going that uses the Pro3x0- >based console). Good point, resellers are now going to have to decide if they dedicate storage space to legacy Alpha hardware or VAX hardware, and in some cases this extends to PDP-11 and even PDP-8 hardware. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 20 12:17:17 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <15191.35943.555242.953243@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:41:59PM -0400 References: <15191.26280.725290.321558@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15191.35943.555242.953243@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010720121717.S9105@mrbill.net> On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:41:59PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > I've seen references to "3030" in many books over the years...I'm > nowhere near old enough to have been there though. > -Dave McGuire Same here, in the "IBM's Early Computers" and "IBM's 360 and Early 370 Systems" books, which are as close to canon as I can find on the subject... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 20 12:26:24 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: Re: Alpha CPUs & motherboards (Eric Dittman) References: <200107201659.f6KGx9712966@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <15192.27072.15262.327297@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 20, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > have preferred that the Alpha go on, but the real point is the > > > OS, not the CPU. > > > > Well, for some folks, maybe. If someone sticks me in a project with a > > crappy OS, I will find the source and fix it (unless it's Windoze, of > > course, but I don't consider that an OS!)...whereas if someone sticks > > me with a crappy processor, well, there's little one can do. > > I meant the point is the OS (OpenVMS) and not the CPU (VAX, Alpha, IPF), > not the OS vs. the CPU in general. Ahh, ok... > > Good point. But the EOL is *years* away. Isn't this a little > > premature, even for the "careful folk"? > > Not really. For some of the odd-ball stuff, the sooner the better > (just ask anyone that has to keep a VAX going that uses the Pro3x0- > based console). Eeeek! Yes, you have a point! 8-) -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 20 12:33:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Re: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment (Bill Bradford) References: <15191.26280.725290.321558@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15191.35943.555242.953243@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20010720121717.S9105@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <15192.27478.984717.677537@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 20, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 09:41:59PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > > I've seen references to "3030" in many books over the years...I'm > > nowhere near old enough to have been there though. > > -Dave McGuire > > Same here, in the "IBM's Early Computers" and "IBM's 360 and Early 370 Systems" > books, which are as close to canon as I can find on the subject... Speaking of which...anyone know where I might get my grubby paws on one of those Micro/370 boards? -Dave McGuire From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 20 12:46:13 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <000e01c110aa$21f0d2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from Richard Erlacher at "Jul 19, 2001 05:25:43 pm" Message-ID: <200107201746.KAA11561@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > I seem to remember reading that the former RBOC's are required to provide a 256k > minimal transfer rate in either direction, while the cable service providers > have more latitude. Everyone I know who's got/had the AT&T cable modem service > has had lower slower transfer rates. My understanding is that AT&T is > provisioned such that they can provide the full 256Kb to one block (whatever > that means, but presumably a city-block, since that's how they're physically > structured) and that's what the customers on that block have to share. I find > that a little hard to swallow, but it's possible, since these companies are run > by bean-counters. Yep, I generally get about 240 kbps upload from my cable modem. The 4-6 Mbps typical download makes up for the lost 16 kbps. Biggest problem I have with my cable modem is latency which can be 100 to 300 ms (round trip) at times. It can be annoying for shell access. Then again, I still remember getting 30000 ms latency the consoles of overworked unix machines as an undergrad, so I can cope > Though the statistics my DSL modem software provide suggest I receive lots of > bandwidth, my transfer speeds vary widely. I have made a few cursory tests, and > found on one occasion, that when I used my notebook via dialup on the voice > line, at 56Kb, I got faster transfer (concurrent transfer of the same file from > the same place took WAY less time) than concurrently and through the same ISP > via my DSL connection. Weird! Transfer times are dominated by bottlenecks that could be anywhere in between you and the source. All bandwidth is shared bandwidth. Your 56k modem connected to another modem on the other side of the DSL bottleneck, meaning a bunch of DSL users were sharing a small pipe somewhere. Last time I checked, ISP's were paying about $600/mo/Mbps for connectivity. That means if they've got 100Mbps to the backbone, they need to share those costs among 2000 users at $30/mo before they can even think about making a profit (making the bad assumption no other costs are involved). In other words, your ISP is betting that your monthly average transfer rate is substantially less than 50 kbps. Ever wonder why DSL and cable providers get upset when people paying residential rates try to set up a server? It also means that when all 2000 users try to download porn simultaneously their data rates are going to drop to <50 kbps. Of course the same is true at both ends of a connection. Eric From engdahl at cle.ab.com Fri Jul 20 15:06:40 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: source for MMJ cables (VCF East Want list) In-Reply-To: <003601c1112d$94691640$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <006301c11157$7d500e30$664199a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain > > Some things that I could really use at the VCF are: > > DEC MMJ cables, AUI networking cables, DECmate III software, > DEC compatible SCSI CD-ROM drive. I was assuming that MMJ cables were as extinct/hard-to-find as the machines that used them. I was about ready to open a VT-420 and rewire it with a DB-9 ribbon cable hanging out the back. I just found that you can buy MMJ cables new at www.l-com.com for $3.55. They have adapters too. I'm guessing that the MMJ to 9-pin adapter is wired for a MicroVAX rather than a PC, but it looks like I might be able to open the adapter and rewire it to make a PC to KDJ11 cable. -- Jonathan Engdahl???????????????? Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer????? 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology????????????? Euclid, OH 44117, USA Euclid Labs????????????????????? engdahl@cle.ab.com 216-266-6409 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 20 15:29:06 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: DSL Woes (was RE: Plato terminal Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513AA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > ISDN > My nightmares have almost subsided from these installations. If you hear > the work ISDN start drinking immediately. The installation crews want to > leave all of the problems to the service crews. Configuring ISDN modems is > a nightmare, SPID=profanity. ISDN == I'm Still Drinking, Ned... From workstations at poczta.onet.pl Fri Jul 20 15:46:45 2001 From: workstations at poczta.onet.pl (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards References: <200107200234.f6K2Yxo03887@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <04be01c1115d$16d7d9c0$05ffa8c0@hx.com> > I've not been looking at the DEC gear recently, but last I did look the number > of Alpha boardc and CPUs seemed to have gone down drastically. I think > the supply is drying up. Seriously, unless you need 64-bit, or are like me > and running OpenVMS, the question becomes, why? What you're going to be > able to find and afford isn't going to be that fast compared to a > Pentium III or IV Motherboard and processor which is likely to cost less. Some of us have software that only runs on Alpha. Others like to play with OSes other than MS Windows. Some like to build a machine that's different. I'm looking for lower-end cpus and motherboards to run Linux, NetBSD, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD on. Jacek -- Znudzilo Ci sie logo w komorce? Wgraj nowe [ http://komorki.onet.pl/dodatki.html ] From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 15:55:12 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: DIY cleanbox (was: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Excellent suggestion! When I worked a Maxtor, they were building a production line out of "mini-enviroments", which are basically what you describe except there was about a 1 foot opening the full width of the cabinet at the front you could put your hands in. The sides were also open so material could be passed from one workstation to the next. The idea was the ultra-clean air inside the mini-E would exhaust through the opening in the front, preventing external particulates from entering. To work in one you only needed gloves, sleeves, and a anti-static (or static-disipative?) jacket. The whole production line was inside a clean-ish, but since the material never left the mini-enviroments until it was closed, it didn't matter too much... Clint On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > Actually you can make a clean room fairly easily with a 10 gallon aquarium > > tank and a blower. > > For those who are too lazy, or of dubious skill with hand tools, Harbor > Freight Tools sells extremely cheap (<$100) abrasive blast cabinets that > reguire little modification to match chuck's description. > > They have a door that needs only a little more weatherstripping, a window, > and attached gloves. The gloves might be a little too heavy for the > purpose, but could be cut and spliced to install lighter weight ones. > > Add a good fan and some filters, . . . > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Jul 20 15:55:46 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Anyone need some LN-03 toner refills? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010720095517.02f612b0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: I have a BUNCH of these. Contact me if you need more than five :) On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, James Willing wrote: > ...for cost of shipping? > > Also usable in most Ricoh engine based laser printers. > > Have five complete, and a sixth partial. > > -jim > > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > From gknight at emugaming.com Fri Jul 20 15:11:45 2001 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question References: <1595.600T1150T2924515optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000401c1115e$fc8299a0$0101010a@pentium2> Iggy Drougge wrote: > Where might it be downloaded? I downloaded a copy of Owen's FreeGEM Distribution v1.2 http://www.owenrudge.co.uk/GEM/ The above web site also contains an MP3 player (486 and above) Try http://www.freegem.org.uk/ http://www.freegem.org.uk/archives/distribs/freegem/ http://www.geocities.com/heinz_rath/ http://www.uni-ulm.de/~s_thuth/pcgem/ Seal is another interesting DOS 32-bit GUI http://seal.drdos.org/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/sealsystem/ > Have you tried Frontier? I can't get that bloody game to install on any PC. > The Amiga version was just a matter of drag-and-drop. I tried it a few months ago. I can't remember having any problems with it. I'll give it another go. Zane Healy wrote: >The Catweasel board (at least when I bought mine had the software to read >Amiga, PC, C-64, and maybe Macintosh floppies. It was advertised as being >able to read a lot more different formats. The problem is, it doesn't (or >at least didn't) have any software to do that. I noticed that a software solution has appeared that may solve some of the current disk problems using the standard PC disk controller. http://fast.emuunlim.com/disk2fdi/ Though it cannot understand the file system, it claims to extract disk information and store it as an FDI (Formatted Disk Image) or ADF (Amiga Disk File) file. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 20 16:01:25 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Sad experience Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155541.02ff1410@pc> Today at the UW-Madison surplus sale, a favorite haunt, I found a box containing eight or nine software boxes. Sure enough, it looked like a complete set of all the software from IBM that shipped with the original IBM PC circa 1982: DOS 1.1, 2.0 and the full UCSD p-System, including FORTRAN, the assembler and Pascal. Everything pristine. All disks in place. The shrinkwrap was still around a few of the boxes. No price on the box, so I search for the Pricing Guy. "Sorry, we can't sell software." I knew about this policy - the University destroys all the software it can no longer use. I'm sad that I found the item on the sale floor but can't buy it. He refers me to Boss #1. He says "we can't sell that, how did that get out here? Go talk to Boss #2." Boss #2 says "Three dollars." Back to Pricing Guy. I say, "Boss #2 said three bucks." Boss #1 is still within earshot, he says "Boss #2 can't do that." (So why did you send me to him?) Boss #1 takes the box and heads for the back room, where the disks will be "recycled" and the manuals shredded. - John www.threedee.com/jcm From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 20 15:55:35 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107200222.f6K2MRV03545@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3378.600T2650T2875979optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155332.03067220@pc> At 07:22 PM 7/19/01 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: >Though as I was cursing this morning, even with MacOS 9.1 a Mac can't format >a floppy and do something else. I love my G4/450, but that's just plain >pathetic. And I thought that having dual processors on my G4 would have some effect allowing doing more than one thing at once, but it doesn't. I bought it (that is, Apple sold it) months before OS X was shipped. OS X will use the dual processors. A few odd PhotoShop plugins use it. The distributed.net client uses it. Other than that, I wasted a few hundred bucks. - John From workstations at poczta.onet.pl Fri Jul 20 16:35:45 2001 From: workstations at poczta.onet.pl (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question References: <3378.600T2650T2875979optimus@canit.se> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155332.03067220@pc> Message-ID: <04e201c11163$ef3ad7d0$05ffa8c0@hx.com> > And I thought that having dual processors on my G4 would have > some effect allowing doing more than one thing at once, but > it doesn't. I bought it (that is, Apple sold it) months before > OS X was shipped. OS X will use the dual processors. A few > odd PhotoShop plugins use it. The distributed.net client uses it. > Other than that, I wasted a few hundred bucks. Can't LightWave 3D for Macintosh make any use of the second CPU? Jacek -- Czatuj, wyslij sms-y, sprawdz poczte Zainstaluj OnetKomunikatora [ http://ok.onet.pl/ ] From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jul 20 16:42:02 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <04e201c11163$ef3ad7d0$05ffa8c0@hx.com> References: <3378.600T2650T2875979optimus@canit.se> <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155332.03067220@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720164103.02ff1ee0@pc> At 11:35 PM 7/20/01 +0200, Jacek Artymiak wrote: >Can't LightWave 3D for Macintosh make any use of the second CPU? Perhaps it can. Although I was intimately involved with the 3D market and particularly Lightwave for many years, I no longer am. I still have dongles for PC but not Mac. - John From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Jul 20 16:56:50 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Winchester Technology (was Re: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <20010720121717.S9105@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > Same here, in the "IBM's Early Computers" and "IBM's 360 and Early 370 Systems" > books, which are as close to canon as I can find on the subject... Not in my copy of the latter. What edition do you have? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 17:17:04 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: from "John Foust" at Jul 20, 2001 03:55:35 PM Message-ID: <200107202217.f6KMH4v12113@shell1.aracnet.com> > At 07:22 PM 7/19/01 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Though as I was cursing this morning, even with MacOS 9.1 a Mac can't format > >a floppy and do something else. I love my G4/450, but that's just plain > >pathetic. > > And I thought that having dual processors on my G4 would have > some effect allowing doing more than one thing at once, but > it doesn't. I bought it (that is, Apple sold it) months before > OS X was shipped. OS X will use the dual processors. A few > odd PhotoShop plugins use it. The distributed.net client uses it. > Other than that, I wasted a few hundred bucks. > > - John Yes, BUT this has been a known problem dating back to the Quad-Processor 3rd Party Mac's that were made around '95. How good of a job is OS X doing at dual processors? One would hope pretty good, but I honestly don't know. I bought OS X the day it came out (and have every beta ever released going back to the OPENSTEP 4.2 "Prelude to Rhapsody" release), but I've barely used it, it just isn't ready for my everyday use. By this Fall/Winter it's starting to sound like it will be. I've got to admit I'm looking forward to the release of Microsoft Office for it, with that, Eudora, Netscrape, and eXodus I should be able to switch. Though in the long run I'll also need to upgrade Photoshop and some other apps. Who knows, I'm happy with 9.1, and might just stay there for another year or two, if not longer. After all it does everything I need, and something tells me it's going to be a minimum of another year before I feel the need to upgrade to a newer system. I made about 2.8 years with my 8500/180, and it looks like I'll do even better with the G4/450 as they're just finally starting to come out with systems that should be significantly faster than my system (something to realize is my system is from the very first batch of G4/450's sold). However, unlike the 8500/180, it doesn't look like I'll be skipping a processor family (though who knows I might). Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 20 16:54:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155541.02ff1410@pc> Message-ID: >Boss #1 takes the box and heads for the back room, >where the disks will be "recycled" and the manuals >shredded. Time to write a few letters. Where does this destroy all old software mentality come from? Does it have a basis in fact? From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 20 17:20:14 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155541.02ff1410@pc> Message-ID: Hmm sounds like you could have just walked out with them and no one would know what to do - is it shoplifting if it wasn't for sale? Would they even know if it was theirs? The wonders of the learned beauracracy. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust -> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 4:01 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Sad experience -> -> -> -> Today at the UW-Madison surplus sale, a favorite haunt, -> I found a box containing eight or nine software boxes. -> -> Sure enough, it looked like a complete set of all the -> software from IBM that shipped with the original IBM PC -> circa 1982: DOS 1.1, 2.0 and the full UCSD p-System, including -> FORTRAN, the assembler and Pascal. Everything pristine. -> All disks in place. The shrinkwrap was still around a -> few of the boxes. -> -> No price on the box, so I search for the Pricing Guy. -> "Sorry, we can't sell software." I knew about this -> policy - the University destroys all the software it -> can no longer use. I'm sad that I found the item on -> the sale floor but can't buy it. He refers me to Boss #1. -> -> He says "we can't sell that, how did that get out here? -> Go talk to Boss #2." Boss #2 says "Three dollars." -> Back to Pricing Guy. I say, "Boss #2 said three bucks." -> Boss #1 is still within earshot, he says "Boss #2 can't -> do that." (So why did you send me to him?) -> -> Boss #1 takes the box and heads for the back room, -> where the disks will be "recycled" and the manuals -> shredded. -> -> - John -> www.threedee.com/jcm -> From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jul 20 17:45:36 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107202245.RAA08718@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > >Boss #1 takes the box and heads for the back room, > >where the disks will be "recycled" and the manuals > >shredded. > > Time to write a few letters. Where does this destroy all old software > mentality come from? Does it have a basis in fact? > Educational software discounts. I bet that since they cant determine what software was purchased for educational use only, the easy solution for them is to just destroy it all. The same mentality that requires not only reformatting hard drives, but rewriting data so as to make the drive immune to norton-utilities types of un-format commands... The same issues come up when at the university where I work, we 'retire' computers each year, giving them to student groups and departments. We have to wipe all the software, because we pay for 300 or so licenses for one type of operating system and hardware combination, and since we replace the computers we retire, and since we buy educational licenses for that many computers, we have to assume the people who get the hand-me-down computers here at the university ae forced to pay for the operating system and software they need. Software suport is also an issue. If we leave the software installed, and instruct the end-user to remove it, we get plenty of 'sure, sure, ok's... and we get all sorts of support questions from people who obviously never reinstalled the system. Ah well, enough of this rant. its an imperfect world, just look at George W. Bush... -Lawrence LeMay From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 20 16:56:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010720155541.02ff1410@pc> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > He says "we can't sell that, how did that get out here? Go talk to > Boss #2." Boss #2 says "Three dollars." Back to Pricing Guy. I say, > "Boss #2 said three bucks." Boss #1 is still within earshot, he says > "Boss #2 can't do that." (So why did you send me to him?) > > Boss #1 takes the box and heads for the back room, where the disks > will be "recycled" and the manuals shredded. Lame. Lame, lame, lame. You should've taken the box and made a bee-line for the door ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 20 18:13:10 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > Boss #1 takes the box and heads for the back room, where the disks > will be "recycled" and the manuals shredded. Next time, ... FIRST, separate the disks from the manuals. Now, stop calling them manuals!, and ask them how much for the "books". Then, separately, find a functioning machine with 6.00 or above or WIN9x, do a FORMAT B: /Q , and ask them how much for the "BLANK" diskettes. The p disks will require more than a simple UNFORMAT, but still reasonably doable. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com DogEars From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jul 20 18:24:28 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! Message-ID: <008601c11173$22a3dcc0$63769a8d@ajp166> I'm back, if anyone noticed. DSL and Phone modem cooked on June 30th put me off the air save my 2400 baud pocket modem. FYI: there were 1810 messages all but 9 were from Classiccmp... thats a bit much, no? Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 20 17:04:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: <200107200227.f6K2RZE03724@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 19, 1 07:27:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 736 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010720/7af59ddc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 20 13:44:23 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: OT: Coke/Pepsi (was: Apple II for intro to microprocessors In-Reply-To: <751.601T1700T1385785optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 20, 1 02:18:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 415 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010720/3b3cb79f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 20 17:52:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: DEC LP25 (help?) In-Reply-To: from "Matt London" at Jul 20, 1 12:42:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2088 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010720/ce784403/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 20 17:55:00 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: DIY cleanbox (was: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 20, 1 09:05:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010720/4deeca93/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 20 17:56:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: <15192.23712.464298.847132@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 20, 1 12:30:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 456 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010720/a3059f2d/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 20 18:25:38 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Alpha CPUs & motherboards In-Reply-To: Re: Alpha CPUs & motherboards (Tony Duell) References: <15192.23712.464298.847132@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15192.48626.974653.116837@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 20, Tony Duell wrote: > > Well, for some folks, maybe. If someone sticks me in a project with a > > crappy OS, I will find the source and fix it (unless it's Windoze, of > > course, but I don't consider that an OS!)...whereas if someone sticks > > me with a crappy processor, well, there's little one can do. > > Err, find the schematics and fix it. Oh, you meant a microprocessor.... :-) ;) *poke* -Dave McGuire From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 20 18:21:10 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: References: <20010719171821.Y32918-100000@localhost> Message-ID: >Once you have firgured out your cable modem's IP address from its DHCP >or ARP broadcasts, there is a snmp mib where you can see what you are >limited to. My roadrunner cable modem has 384k upload 2m download Tell me more, where is it, how to do it, etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 20 18:17:13 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: OT: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <20010719171821.Y32918-100000@localhost> References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com wrote: >> >> I've had 256k DSL for about 9 months now > >Is 256 kbps common for DSL or cable? > >A network admin at the local cable company here (who handles my cable >modem service) told me that their infrastructure can do 10 Mbps to each >modem, but that the software in the modem was configured to limit that to >2 Mbps. I don't know if the software limit story is true, but I can vouch >for the 2 Mbps effective rate. I've had FTP transfers in excess of 200 >KBps before. When the source can do it, I get 168k bytes per second with Roadrunner cable modem (thats about 1.5 Mbps). The real catch with DSL is that garden variety the downlink speed is very good, and uplink may be only 7k bytyes per second, which isn't shiningly better than 56k modems. From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jul 20 18:51:23 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: RSX11M+ v3.0 Distribution References: Message-ID: <200107202351.TAA09689@world.std.com> >Please keep us posted and contact Megan - I suspect that she will be able >to take care of all of the legal hassle for you (and everyone else). I certainly cannot take care of any legal hassles... but the license clearly states 'RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or prior'. As with the V5.3 distribution, people who take it are on their honor NOT to use it in violation of the license. This is no different. Well, it may be a moot point... I just checked the old address where the software was available (ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/digital/sim/software/) and it cannot be found... It would appear the contents of gatekeeper have be drastically reduced... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 20 18:50:53 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: "ajp166" "Re: thunderstorm damages!" (Jul 20, 19:24) References: <008601c11173$22a3dcc0$63769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <10107210050.ZM12584@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 20, 19:24, ajp166 wrote: > I'm back, if anyone noticed. > > DSL and Phone modem cooked on June 30th put me off the air save > my 2400 baud pocket modem. I wondered where you'd gone. > FYI: there were 1810 messages all but 9 were from Classiccmp... > thats a bit much, no? Yes, but you arguably didn't miss too much :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 20 18:52:11 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: DIY cleanbox (was: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > For those who are too lazy, or of dubious skill with hand tools, Harbor On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I have to say, though, that if you aren't good enough with tools to make > the cleanbox, you probably don't have a hope of being able to repair an > HDA.... Quite likely true. BUT, ... there are different kinds of skills involved. Being adept at mechanical repairs does not necessarily correlate with cabinetmaking and fabricating skills. And I am lazy enough to consider purchasing rather than building something like that. > > Freight Tools sells extremely cheap (<$100) abrasive blast cabinets that > > reguire little modification to match chuck's description. BTW, the work table in the beadblaster that I used to use for cylinder heads was almost 3 feet by 4 feet. How big do you need? (their $80 cabinet is top opening, and only has about 15 by 19 inch work surface) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 20 20:07:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <200107200222.f6K2MRV03545@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4925.602T300T1273673optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >> >There are MP3 players for 68k Amiga's?!?! That's either rather gutsy, or >> >pathetic, I'm not sure which. What do they do, decode them to another >> >format and then play them? >> >> Keep in mind that I'm running a 25 MHz Amiga as my main (only) machine. >> That doesn't mean I don't enjoy MP3s. =) They decode in real time. A French >> bloke named Stephane Tavenard deserves most of the credit for his tight >> assembler-coded MPEGA.library, which most players use. >Now that is *impressive*! >> Since my stock A4000 is probably the absolute low-end for getting moderate >> quality playback, I usually use a command-line player and a lot of >> buffering. A faster '040 or an '060 won't be so limitated. An '060 may even >> replay several MP3s at once, and there are pretty, skinnable programs such >> as AmigaAMP or AMPlifier. =) >Ah, now I see, you're running a A4000, which should mean a 68040 processor. >Well, there is more than a little difference in speed between a A3000/25 and >A4000/25 since I've got a 68030 and you've got a 68040. I'd love a faster >CPU, but I can't justify it for a machine that I quite honestly have no real >use for. I just like it :^) The A4000 has gotr Commodore's pathetic 68040 board, though, so any third- party board should fare much better, particularly the 40 MHz ones. >Out of curiousity, what else can you do on your 68040 while playing MP3's >and how does it effect playback? I've got to admit to being curious about >that one. Not much, I'm afraid. That's why I use a lot of buffering, so that I might at least read some email, but surfing the net at the same time is asking for trouble on an 040/25. >> >The monitors I've got would probably crush a A3000! I might be able to >> >put it in the wooden rack next to the desk, but the PDP-8/m sits where it >> >would need to go, and I'm going to need to find more room in the rack for >> >a PDP-8/e and Papertape reader/punch. >> >> We're running a 17" Compaq monitor on top of ours. A friend of mine runs a >> 19- incher on top of his, IIRC- >I'm talking either a 19-20" IBM P200 or a 21" Viewsonic P815. Those are >*very* heavy monitors, and my A3000's case is already in bad shape. About >the only system I'd consider setting under either of them would be something >like my Sparc 20/712, which is built a lot sturdier. All right. >> >Don't need a backup system, and I've no desire to run Linux on anything >> >but a fast x86 box. So I'm still trying to come up with a use for it. >> >That was one of the reasons I bought it a Catweasel, however, the board >> >didn't function as advertised thanks to the lack of software for it. Of >> >course the Catweasel board is also why it's sitting in a monster ALR >> >Server Tower at the moment! >> >> What software are you lacking? >The Catweasel board (at least when I bought mine had the software to read >Amiga, PC, C-64, and maybe Macintosh floppies. It was advertised as being >able to read a lot more different formats. The problem is, it doesn't (or >at least didn't) have any software to do that. That's odd, according to the review I read it could read Amiga, PC and ST formats, as well as transferring C64 disks into images. >> Amiga: (noun) The most technologically advanced computer that hardly anyone >> cares about. Use in sentence: "I wanted to buy an Amiga for its low price >> and great color graphics, but everyone else seems to be using IBMs or >> Macintoshes. So, to remain compatible with the rest of the world, I spent >> three times as much on a Macintosh and got only half the graphics >> capability of an Amiga." >Unfortunatly, this is no longer remotely true. If Gateway had followed >through it might be, but they didn't. Which is why most of the Amiga >comunity has moved on to either the Mac, BeOS, Linux, or Windows. Times >change, what the Amiga did with style, modern Mac's and PC's do with brute >force. You're just fantasising. >Though as I was cursing this morning, even with MacOS 9.1 a Mac can't format >a floppy and do something else. I love my G4/450, but that's just plain >pathetic. I think that's the real reason Apple dropped the floppies from >thier systems, they didn't want to write decent software to work with them. >A 68k based system will blow the socks off of any Power Mac when it comes to >doing anything floppy related! And I'm serious, I've tested it! I've no >idea how pathetic Windows might be at this, as I try to avoid it. Windows is equally pathetic. Of course, the PC floppy system is pathetic in itself. It doesn't even detect disk insertion. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "But software which OpenBSD uses and redistributes must be free to all (be they people or companies), for any purpose they wish to use it, including modification, use, peeing on, or even integration into baby mulching machines or atomic bombs to be dropped on Australia." - Theo de Raadt From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 20 19:23:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: DIY cleanbox (was: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff" at Jul 20, 1 02:55:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010721/8b572a64/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 20 20:23:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: DIY cleanbox (was: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 20, 1 04:52:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1219 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010721/50ef57fd/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 20 20:51:32 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <4925.602T300T1273673optimus@canit.se> References: <4925.602T300T1273673optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >That's odd, according to the review I read it could read Amiga, PC and ST >formats, as well as transferring C64 disks into images. According to Blittersoft's site, it would seem to be quite flexible. The ST's format is basically the 720k DOS format though, so being able to read ST disks shouldn't be any extra work at all. The only real problem I can think of would be disks formatted under TOS 1.02 or earlier. These disks differ in format by a couple of bytes and could be made PC-DOS compatible but weren't straight from the ST. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 20 20:59:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:55 2005 Subject: Another Amiga question In-Reply-To: <4925.602T300T1273673optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 21, 2001 02:07:06 AM Message-ID: <200107210159.f6L1xrl21880@shell1.aracnet.com> > >Ah, now I see, you're running a A4000, which should mean a 68040 processor. > >Well, there is more than a little difference in speed between a A3000/25 and > >A4000/25 since I've got a 68030 and you've got a 68040. I'd love a faster > >CPU, but I can't justify it for a machine that I quite honestly have no real > >use for. I just like it :^) > > The A4000 has gotr Commodore's pathetic 68040 board, though, so any third- > party board should fare much better, particularly the 40 MHz ones. The fact still remains that it's considerably faster than what I'm running with, and I've considered buying one for my A3000, but didn't want to deal with the heat problems the Commodore board would cause. > Not much, I'm afraid. That's why I use a lot of buffering, so that I might at > least read some email, but surfing the net at the same time is asking for > trouble on an 040/25. I suspected as much, even with a nice lightwieght OS with great multitasking there is only so much you can do with a 68040/25. > >The Catweasel board (at least when I bought mine had the software to read > >Amiga, PC, C-64, and maybe Macintosh floppies. It was advertised as being > >able to read a lot more different formats. The problem is, it doesn't (or > >at least didn't) have any software to do that. > > That's odd, according to the review I read it could read Amiga, PC and ST > formats, as well as transferring C64 disks into images. Well, ST format and PC format are the same so yes, it could do all those, but the manufacturers website claimed it could also to Apple II and several other formats. Not without software they didn't provide it can't! The cool thing is it can do more than C64 images, it can access the files on the C64 disks. > Windows is equally pathetic. Of course, the PC floppy system is pathetic in > itself. It doesn't even detect disk insertion. I'm not surprised, I remember when I was running OS/2 on my 486/33, a top of the line system at the time with a massive 8MB RAM and 2 200MB HD's! Anyway I ran V1.3 - V2.1 on it, and I think it was V2.0 that so blew me away, I could be formating both a 3.5" and a 5.25" floppy while downloading something, AND doing something else! Now that was awsome! Of course these days I realize that's the kind of performance that should be expected from a computer, even if it is only a desktop PC. Zane From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 20 21:47:37 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: MicroVAX equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Well, the HDA I most want to be able to work on is the SA4000 one. At > least on that one, it all comes apart from one side, and the cover is > fairly light (it's plastic). Same here. These are fascinating HDAs. > But there is another problem. If my arms are effectively fixed in holes > in the side of the cleanbox, I doubt I could move the cover far enough to > get it clear of the rest of the HDA. > > No, I think you're right. A cleanbox isn't going to work for 14" drives :-( Actually, perhaps it could, if designed as follows: the arm-holes would be on top, at a slanted angle; more so of an angle than shown below. A B C _____o----\ \---o_____ | E | D F (A), (B) and (C) are three plexiglas surfaces. (A) and (C) are fixed. (B) is a slideable surface with two gloved, and angled, arm openings (E) in it. (D) and (F) represent some sort of roller seal seal between the sheets of plexiglas. Anyway, this same basic idea could be used on an angled cover as well... basically, the idea is to create a cleanbox (hey, I seem to recall mentioning the idea of miniature cleanrooms (boxes) some time ago, but no one seemed very interested in the idea... I guess thoughts change when some random corporation is seen doing it, and then it becomes an "ok idea"...) that allows one to work on larger hard drives, like the SA4000 series. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Jul 20 21:32:02 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience Message-ID: <55.18a4041e.288a43a2@aol.com> If it is any comfort John, yours is not an isolated experience. With regards to my recent rescue of all the NeXT stuff. It was rescued from an "institution of higher learning". It was removed from service around 5 years ago. They decided at the time to have a 'yard sale' and include these machines. That never happened, and after 5 years they decided to rid themselves of it. If that were an isolated case I wouldn't mind. After all I got to rescue the stuff. The gotcha is that they just decommissioned all their DEC hardware. You can darn well bet by now all docs, tapes, etc. have been pitched. On my last visit I asked if any of the DEC was available. The response was that they had just decided to put it all the DEC in a yard sale. Oh Joy! So those DECstations, VAXstations, Infoserver(s), Alphas, and who knows what else are going to sit in a warehouse somewhere until who knows when. And I know from the NeXT experience that they will be picked over, and in some cases there won't be enough of a given machine left to even sell to the recyclers. Given the four "institutions of higher learning" in this town, I have worked for one full time, taught at another part time, and dealt with the other two with regards to equipment rescues. I have come to the conclusion the higher learning does not create greater smarts, and in most cases lessens the amount of common sense. I suspect that a boot full of common sense would not help, even with instructions on how to use written on the bottom. That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it. Mike From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 20 21:55:28 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Lame. Lame, lame, lame. > > You should've taken the box and made a bee-line for the door ;) Yes, he could have just quickly paid the $3 and run with the box. If that didn't work, then more drastic methods, like, convincing someone else to shout "fire!," would create the necessary level of distraction necessary to save that box of software and documentation from destruction... -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jul 20 21:52:15 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! Message-ID: <002e01c11190$a38ffd10$63769a8d@ajp166> From: Pete Turnbull >I wondered where you'd gone. Yep, 2400 is far too slow for that much mail. >> FYI: there were 1810 messages all but 9 were from Classiccmp... >> thats a bit much, no? > >Yes, but you arguably didn't miss too much :-) >From the 2% audit of what went in the trash can I'd agree. Allison From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 20 22:09:06 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Time to write a few letters. Where does this destroy all old software > mentality come from? Does it have a basis in fact? It's no doubt related to the same sort of foolish mentality that exists in the Maryland government, where our esteemed idiot governor, Paris Spenddenning (quite possibly with the help of associate guvner Kathleen "Chappaquiddick" Townwrecker) has discouraged junkyards from keeping any cars over 10 years old in stock for more than a few days; the old cars are scrapped quickly so that heavy taxes can be avoided. Of course, we all know the real reason for all this, right? It has nothing to to with being good to the environment... the purpose is to help biz droids sell new cars and new computer software, etc. that people might not otherwise purchase. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 20 21:09:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! In-Reply-To: <008601c11173$22a3dcc0$63769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, ajp166 wrote: > I'm back, if anyone noticed. We missed you (collective sigh). :) > FYI: there were 1810 messages all but 9 were from Classiccmp... thats > a bit much, no? And probably 1500+ of them were off-topic :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jul 20 23:20:35 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513AA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010720231037.N34664-100000@localhost> On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > ISDN == I'm Still Drinking, Ned... ISDN == It Still Does Nothing ISDN == It Stops the Damn Network ISDN == Insanely Slow Download Network ISDN == Into Skull Driving Nails ISDN == I Still Don't kNow -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 21 01:57:22 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: OT: Great idea going wanting Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010720235503.025d1590@209.185.79.193> Well, I was planning on having a big party on Sept 1st but now it looks like I'm booked, however, if there are any other numerologists out there, note that this date is an auspicious date for having an EMERGENCY party The date is 9-1-1 and it falls on a SATURDAY Is that cool or what? --Chuck (normally I have my emergency party on the 11th) Please disregard this message if you don't get it. Thanks. From lance at costanzo.net Sat Jul 21 06:36:09 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: OT: Great idea going wanting Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010721043609.007a3d40@costanzo.net> At 11:57 PM 7/20/01 -0700, you wrote: >Well, I was planning on having a big party on Sept 1st but now it looks >like I'm booked, however, if there are any other numerologists out there, >note that this date is an auspicious date for having an EMERGENCY party > The date is 9-1-1 > and it falls on a SATURDAY >Is that cool or what? And don't forget that there's several more opportunities this year for BINARY day parties: 10/1/1, 11/11/1, etc From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 21 06:41:53 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Great idea going wanting In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010720235503.025d1590@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: One of our local volunteer fire dept's rescue squads has noticed this too but most people are telling them that it's actually 9-1-01 -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chuck McManis -> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:57 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: OT: Great idea going wanting -> -> -> Well, I was planning on having a big party on Sept 1st but now it looks -> like I'm booked, however, if there are any other numerologists -> out there, -> note that this date is an auspicious date for having an EMERGENCY party -> The date is 9-1-1 -> and it falls on a SATURDAY -> -> Is that cool or what? -> --Chuck -> -> (normally I have my emergency party on the 11th) -> -> Please disregard this message if you don't get it. Thanks. -> From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jul 21 07:41:25 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721072032.02f24ef0@pc> At 10:55 PM 7/20/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: >On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> Lame. Lame, lame, lame. >> > You should've taken the box and made a bee-line for the door ;) >Yes, he could have just quickly paid the $3 and run with the box. I forgot to mention that the Big Boss is at the door, Wal-Mart style, checking receipts against goods. A number of scenarios went through my mind... hiding the disks, claiming they were manuals (although I suspect they can't sell the manuals, either) etc., but I just chalked it up to experience. I wasted a good 20 minutes arguing (pleasantly) about a $3 box of software, and that makes less sense to me. I've visited this place on and off for at least fifteen years, spent lots of money, and hope to do it in the future. I wouldn't want to be accused of shoplifting because of some old PC disks. - John From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 21 07:48:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> You should've taken the box and made a bee-line for the door ;) > >Yes, he could have just quickly paid the $3 and run with the box. If >that didn't work, then more drastic methods, like, convincing someone I think maybe the "right" short term tactic is to just INSIST they are books, not "software". From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 21 08:40:24 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes References: <20010720231037.N34664-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <002901c111ea$b1ff42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure what the current status is, but back in '95 or so, we had enough ISDN customers to warrant a server just for them. Our customers certainly didn't complain back then, since ISDN offered flexibility and performance not available on a DS0 service costing 5x as much. I was somewhat surprised, after attempting to get ISDN service here at my house, as DSL wasn't yet being offered, to learn that Emanuel Stiebler has ISDN at his somewhat remote mountain home. With all the limits on distance from the C.O. I'd have been the last to expect to get ISDN service so far from town. Nevertheless, if you have any questions about ISDN and the quality of service, I'd say it might be useful to ask him. Everyone else I know who once used ISDN has gone to DSL or some other level of service. My neighbor has a really high-bandwidth microwave link to some obscure ISP and he tells me he's getting the equivalent (in bursts) of DS3 rates. I've yet to visit his newly organized facility, but with the hardware I've seen him bring in over the past half-year, I don't doubt his claim. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 10:20 PM Subject: RE: DSL Woes > On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > ISDN == I'm Still Drinking, Ned... > > ISDN == It Still Does Nothing > ISDN == It Stops the Damn Network > ISDN == Insanely Slow Download Network > ISDN == Into Skull Driving Nails > ISDN == I Still Don't kNow > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 21 08:38:54 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: RSX11M+ v3.0 Distribution References: <200107202351.TAA09689@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3B5985EE.21D54F39@idirect.com> >Megan wrote: > >Please keep us posted and contact Megan - I suspect that she will be able > >to take care of all of the legal hassle for you (and everyone else). > I certainly cannot take care of any legal hassles... but the license > clearly states 'RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or prior'. As with the V5.3 > distribution, people who take it are on their honor NOT to use it > in violation of the license. This is no different. Jerome Fine replies: Thank you for pointing this out again. I hope that we all attempt to abide by your advice. Please also be aware that there is work in progress (UNPAID by PDP-11 users who were or are still using PDP-11 operating systems and real hardware - so it is taking much longer than expected) to extend the hobby license. While it was expected to be finished by now, hopefully by the end of this year? > Well, it may be a moot point... I just checked the old address where > the software was available > (ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/digital/sim/software/) > and it cannot be found... > It would appear the contents of gatekeeper have be drastically > reduced... As far as I can tell, you may have the wrong URL. The following sites still seem active: ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/ for the file ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z And the other is: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/software/ for the file ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/software/rtv53swre.tar.gz If you and William King can get directly in touch, I hope the two of you can arrange to get the RSX11M+ V3.00 zipped ready for posting! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Jul 21 09:00:28 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: New Finds Message-ID: <004801c111ed$80afa2c0$58721fd1@default> Picked up a Laser PC3 portable computer that works great and has a nice carrying case but no doc's at Goodwill At an auction I got a Vibrac model 350 Flexible Disc Tester and a MTI Accumcasure System 1000. At another Goodwill I got 3 clear IBM Data Processing Magnetic Tape holders (99 cents each). They also had new 8" 3M diskettes in the box for $2.99 each. The rest of the stuff is not yet 10 years old. On the subject of shopping at places of higher ed. I have stopped going to the U of M here because they got to were if you got a item out of the trash they would keep it and give it to 'a person' that would sell it on eBay (the school got none of the funds). From jrice at texoma.net Sat Jul 21 08:56:01 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes References: <20010720231037.N34664-100000@localhost> <002901c111ea$b1ff42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B5989F1.E8D57748@texoma.net> DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until 3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a backup anyway. James Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I'm not sure what the current status is, but back in '95 or so, we had enough > ISDN customers to warrant a server just for them. Our customers certainly > didn't complain back then, since ISDN offered flexibility and performance not > available on a DS0 service costing 5x as much. > > I was somewhat surprised, after attempting to get ISDN service here at my house, > as DSL wasn't yet being offered, to learn that Emanuel Stiebler has ISDN at his > somewhat remote mountain home. With all the limits on distance from the C.O. > I'd have been the last to expect to get ISDN service so far from town. > > Nevertheless, if you have any questions about ISDN and the quality of service, > I'd say it might be useful to ask him. Everyone else I know who once used ISDN > has gone to DSL or some other level of service. My neighbor has a really > high-bandwidth microwave link to some obscure ISP and he tells me he's getting > the equivalent (in bursts) of DS3 rates. I've yet to visit his newly organized > facility, but with the hardware I've seen him bring in over the past half-year, > I don't doubt his claim. > > Dick > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 21 09:23:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes References: <20010720231037.N34664-100000@localhost> <002901c111ea$b1ff42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B5989F1.E8D57748@texoma.net> Message-ID: <000601c111f0$b169aac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got some doubts about the business model into which the DSL and Cable services fit. Here in Denver, AT&T is the cable provider, and they make it pretty clear that the actual data bandwidth can be pretty low in a physical block that had lots of connections. The "phone company" (QWEST) offers the intermittent-connection service that I have, and they offer a persistent-connection for about $10 more per month. I don't see how, as they have to support more and more DSL connections, they figure on keeping the bandwidth at greater than 256Kbps in either direction, as they are apparently mandated to do. Back in '95, a T1, essentially equivalent to 6 minimally provisioned DSL links, cost $980 per month for the connection, plus $40 per channel for the bandwidth. There really isn't that much more bandwidth today than there was in '95, is there? This scheme makes them use quite a lot more bandwidth than they used to, yet they don't get any more money for it. How's this supposed to work over the long haul? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "James L. Rice" To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:56 AM Subject: Re: DSL Woes > DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until > 3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it > costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed > is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers > around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to > play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically > at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business > class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when > it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a > backup anyway. > > James > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > I'm not sure what the current status is, but back in '95 or so, we had enough > > ISDN customers to warrant a server just for them. Our customers certainly > > didn't complain back then, since ISDN offered flexibility and performance not > > available on a DS0 service costing 5x as much. > > > > I was somewhat surprised, after attempting to get ISDN service here at my house, > > as DSL wasn't yet being offered, to learn that Emanuel Stiebler has ISDN at his > > somewhat remote mountain home. With all the limits on distance from the C.O. > > I'd have been the last to expect to get ISDN service so far from town. > > > > Nevertheless, if you have any questions about ISDN and the quality of service, > > I'd say it might be useful to ask him. Everyone else I know who once used ISDN > > has gone to DSL or some other level of service. My neighbor has a really > > high-bandwidth microwave link to some obscure ISP and he tells me he's getting > > the equivalent (in bursts) of DS3 rates. I've yet to visit his newly organized > > facility, but with the hardware I've seen him bring in over the past half-year, > > I don't doubt his claim. > > > > Dick > > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 21 09:33:14 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Bad BA123 Power Supply - Fix or Scrap? Message-ID: <3B5992AA.1AE280EB@idirect.com> Does anyone want to fix a power supply from a BA123? The box seems OK, but there was probably a short at some point. Local pick up only - in Toronto. If no one replies, out on Wednesday for sure into the garbage!! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Jul 21 09:51:03 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: thunderstorm damages! Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513AE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I'm back, if anyone noticed. Actually, yes, I'd been wondering why we hadn't heard much from you or from Megan lately... > DSL and Phone modem cooked on June 30th put me off the air save > my 2400 baud pocket modem. > > FYI: there were 1810 messages all but 9 were from Classiccmp... > thats a bit much, no? And most of those OT, no doubt... -dq From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1150.monmouth.com Sat Jul 21 09:55:05 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1150.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <3B5989F1.E8D57748@texoma.net> from "James L. Rice" at "Jul 21, 2001 08:56:01 am" Message-ID: <200107211455.f6LEt5Z01287@bg-tc-ppp1150.monmouth.com> > DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until > 3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it > costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed > is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers > around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to > play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically > at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business > class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when > it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a > backup anyway. > > James The problem is the ISDN in NJ can run you hundreds of dollars in time charges... where DSL is flat rate per month. Bill From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 21 10:13:24 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721072032.02f24ef0@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > A number of scenarios went through my mind... hiding the disks, > claiming they were manuals (although I suspect they can't sell > the manuals, either) etc., but I just chalked it up to NOT "MANUALS"!!! "BOOKS"! In many such situations, "Manuals" can not be sold. But "Books" can. There is something incomprehensibly mystical about the "laws" regarding software and even manuals. But "everybody knows" that used books are transferrable. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Jul 21 10:14:27 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <3B5989F1.E8D57748@texoma.net> Message-ID: I had ISDN before cable modem was available in my area. I had the usual "didn't work the first time" problems that everyone has heard of over the years, eventually traced to a incorrect setting in the ISDN switch. While the ISDN itself was almost always working, between firmware problems on the terminal adapter and the Cisco 5200 on the other end causing easily reproducable disconnections, I think cable modem/VPN connection to work has been just as reliable at most times and much faster. (Running X or other chatty protocols over ISDN was a recipe for frequent disconnection) The notable exception is during storm related power problems: with ISDN my connection to work would stay up with the Terminal adapter plugged into the UPS, but since the cable company does not have their equipment in the neighborhoods backed up in any way I am disconnected with power problems anywhere in the local loop. Speed has not been an issue with cable, it has typically been faster at its worst than 128k ISDN at its best. On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, James L. Rice wrote: > DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until > 3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it > costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed > is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers > around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to > play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically > at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business > class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when > it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a > backup anyway. > > James > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > I'm not sure what the current status is, but back in '95 or so, we had enough > > ISDN customers to warrant a server just for them. Our customers certainly > > didn't complain back then, since ISDN offered flexibility and performance not > > available on a DS0 service costing 5x as much. > > > > I was somewhat surprised, after attempting to get ISDN service here at my house, > > as DSL wasn't yet being offered, to learn that Emanuel Stiebler has ISDN at his > > somewhat remote mountain home. With all the limits on distance from the C.O. > > I'd have been the last to expect to get ISDN service so far from town. > > > > Nevertheless, if you have any questions about ISDN and the quality of service, > > I'd say it might be useful to ask him. Everyone else I know who once used ISDN > > has gone to DSL or some other level of service. My neighbor has a really > > high-bandwidth microwave link to some obscure ISP and he tells me he's getting > > the equivalent (in bursts) of DS3 rates. I've yet to visit his newly organized > > facility, but with the hardware I've seen him bring in over the past half-year, > > I don't doubt his claim. > > > > Dick > > > -- From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Sat Jul 21 10:17:19 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <200107211455.f6LEt5Z01287@bg-tc-ppp1150.monmouth.com> Message-ID: You folks might want to ask your local provider about IDSL. IDSL uses ISDN technology but is always on and here it is flat rate. Not as cheap as DSL but not nearly as expensive as ISDN. George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > > DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until > > 3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it > > costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed > > is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers > > around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to > > play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically > > at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business > > class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when > > it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a > > backup anyway. > > > > James > > The problem is the ISDN in NJ can run you hundreds of dollars in > time charges... where DSL is flat rate per month. > > Bill > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jul 21 10:44:53 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience References: Message-ID: <3B59A375.BC644364@tiac.net> My guess would be that the university does not want to make the mistake of selling software they don't 'own', but had licensed. I beleive that some operating systems (like from DEC) are never 'sold', and cannot be transfered to a third party. "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > > A number of scenarios went through my mind... hiding the disks, > > claiming they were manuals (although I suspect they can't sell > > the manuals, either) etc., but I just chalked it up to > > NOT "MANUALS"!!! > "BOOKS"! > In many such situations, "Manuals" can not be sold. But "Books" can. > > There is something incomprehensibly mystical about the "laws" regarding > software and even manuals. But "everybody knows" that used books are > transferrable. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jss at subatomix.com Sat Jul 21 10:40:51 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <002901c111ea$b1ff42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010721103934.H34664-100000@localhost> On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > My neighbor has a really high-bandwidth microwave link to some obscure > ISP It would probably be out of my price range, but I'd be interested in finding out what ISP that is. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 21 10:42:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes References: Message-ID: <001e01c111fb$c41d42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What advantages does this ISDL offer over ISDN or DSL? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Leo Rachor Jr." To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:17 AM Subject: Re: DSL Woes > You folks might want to ask your local provider about IDSL. IDSL uses > ISDN technology but is always on and here it is flat rate. Not as cheap > as DSL but not nearly as expensive as ISDN. > > George Rachor > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com > Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com > United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until > > > 3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it > > > costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed > > > is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers > > > around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to > > > play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically > > > at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business > > > class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when > > > it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a > > > backup anyway. > > > > > > James > > > > The problem is the ISDN in NJ can run you hundreds of dollars in > > time charges... where DSL is flat rate per month. > > > > Bill > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 21 10:49:19 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: <3B59A375.BC644364@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > My guess would be that the university does not want to make the > mistake of selling software they don't 'own', but had licensed. > I beleive that some operating systems (like from DEC) are never > 'sold', and cannot be transfered to a third party. That is apparently what is going on. But what _I_ was pointing out was that referring to the docs as "manuals" merely solidifies that position. Calling them "books" is the way to question whether they should be classified as non-resellable. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > > > A number of scenarios went through my mind... hiding the disks, > > > claiming they were manuals (although I suspect they can't sell > > > the manuals, either) etc., but I just chalked it up to > > > > NOT "MANUALS"!!! > > "BOOKS"! > > In many such situations, "Manuals" can not be sold. But "Books" can. > > > > There is something incomprehensibly mystical about the "laws" regarding > > software and even manuals. But "everybody knows" that used books are > > transferrable. > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From rdd at smart.net Sat Jul 21 11:39:05 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice Message-ID: This morning a truck arrived with a box for me weighing about 140lbs. :-) Please note: quite some time ago, I mentioned ordering something from a company called Techs R Us, in Texas, via E-Bay that, hadn't arrived yet. There was a reason for the (very) long delay in the shipping of this computer system; the lady who owns the computer business selling it had a health problem and was unable to ship it at the time. That apparently explains negative feedback on E-bay for her company. She's a very pleasant person to speak with, and does return telephone calls, although not always right away... so, if you order anything from her, please be patient. It may take a long time to arrive, but you should receive it. What I received today arrived in excellent physical condition; not even a dent in the packing box. Has anyone on this list been to her store in Dallas Texas? The aforementioned system was sent via Craters and Freighters, and USF Worldwide delivered it after they called ahead a couple of days ago. The two men on the truck asked where I wanted it, and they carefully placed the box in that location. Much better service than UPS! After pulling all of the heavy wire staples out, opening up the box, removing big pieces of styrofoam and lots of foam packing chips, a VAX 4000-200 in heavy bubble wrap became visible. After extracting the VAX from the box and unwrapping it, I discovered the following: a rather ordinary VAX with what appears to be 16MB of RAM, a KA660 CPU and two 300MB DSSI disks... and other interesting bits described below. Seeing what appeared to be terminated miniature SCSI connetor and a centronics connector, I was hoping to find a SCSI board in the system, but no such luck. ...what I did find, however: a dual height board labeled "Talon Technology Corporation" connected to a DB15 connector. This board has various numbers on it; not sure which one the model number is. Some of the numbers are: 100501-2, 01B14 and 1242344. Does anyone know what sort of critter this board is? The other somewhat interesting find: a set of boards labeled M3135-01, M3135-02 and M3136. The M3135 boards appear to be something called DECVoice and the M3136 connects the M3135 to T1 telephone service. Is anyone familiar with these? It is correct to guess that this won't work with a regular home telephone line? Once I finish disassembling it, extract any spiders and move it inside the house, I'll check it out, and see if it boots up. ...that is, if I can find any place to put it, which I should have thought of before buying it many months ago. Alas, it has neither a tape drive nor a CD-ROM drive. There's one cable that looks like the type that attaches to to a TK50 or TK70 drive, but no power connector in sight. Am I going to need a tray for the tape drive that plugs into the sockets on the backplane? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From nerdware at laidbak.com Sat Jul 21 11:26:10 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: The withdrawal symptoms are starting to go away... In-Reply-To: References: <008601c11173$22a3dcc0$63769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <200107211626.f6LGQgP06771@grover.winsite.com> Man! That was scary! I lost the list for several weeks, for reasons I don't know, and even resubscribing didn't help. This morning, I discover a nice, tidy pile of classiccmp messages in the appropriate folder. I think I'll pull through now. I think I owe Derek a big "Thanks!" for informing the server that I was, in fact, still alive. Whew! Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 21 12:03:33 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <3B5989F1.E8D57748@texoma.net> References: <20010720231037.N34664-100000@localhost> <002901c111ea$b1ff42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721100150.02c75890@209.185.79.193> At 08:56 AM 7/21/01 -0500, James wrote: >DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until >3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it >costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed >is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers >around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to >play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically >at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business >class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when >it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a >backup anyway. In that case consider getting a T-1 line. They are a _lot_ cheaper these days, don't have distance limits and if you put an 802.11B repeater on your roof and sell internet access to your neighbors to cover the cost. I've often thought about getting a T-1 line pulled to the street and having half a dozen of us geeks split the cost. --Chuck From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 21 12:01:08 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 21, 2001 12:39:05 PM Message-ID: <200107211701.f6LH18M15560@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Please note: quite some time ago, I mentioned ordering something from > a company called Techs R Us, in Texas... > ... Has anyone on this > list been to her store in Dallas Texas? Where is their store? I'm in the Dallas area and I've not heard of it, but it sounds like a place to visit. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Jul 21 12:25:17 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Attention DEC collectors... References: Message-ID: <3B59BAFD.4DA7ED66@tiac.net> I'd like to identifiy and trade some DEC hardware. Some of this can be made available at VCF East... Backplanes: DD11-CK (normal 4-slot unibus backplane I think) DD11-DF (is this the VT-11 backplane??) DD11-CF (or is this the VT-11 backplane?) (the VT-11, VR-17, and light pen are already spoken for, assuming I can find the dang backplane!) Boards: DEC core memory board set: G116, core array board with no number visible, and G236, with interconnecting cables, removed for upgrade to solid-state RAM. I think this is 2 16K word banks set for interleaved access, was working on removal. PDP-11/40 - 11/35 gear: 1 complete 11/35 chassis with the following installed... M7235 M7233 M7231 M7232 (Note, one ribbon cable to the front panel has a small tear, replace or repair needed, 1 or 2 conductors effected. All switches perfect.) Unibus jumper to 9-slot backplane, type unknown, with... H214 core array (DEC's coolest-looking core board) G231 G110 G110 G231 H214 core array (I think this is 16K words of core?) Spare 11/35 - 11/40 boards... M7238 (EIS) M7236 (MMU) DEC schematics for M7234, M7233, M7231, M7235, M7232! One spare plexiglass 11/40 front panel, in excellent condition. Unknown unibus boards: M7847 M7840 Random DEC / 3rd party stuff: M7000 M7002 MS1440 Two Intel IN4711 memory boards (4K drams in sockets) (I probably have a DEC console port board or two also) Will trade for HP1000 hardware in a heartbeat, other stuff considered. (A complete DEC rack with a 11/34A with RL-01's, and RT11, etc. ~could~ be had, for the right HP gear deal.) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 21 12:23:33 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721100538.02cace70@209.185.79.193> At 12:39 PM 7/21/01 -0400, R.D. Davis wrote: >Please note: quite some time ago, I mentioned ordering something from >a company called Techs R Us, in Texas, via E-Bay that, hadn't arrived >yet. There was a reason for the (very) long delay in the shipping of >this computer system; the lady who owns the computer business selling >it had a health problem and was unable to ship it at the time. I'm glad you got your stuff. I've had a couple of ebay sellers tell me that they practically dragged themselves off their deathbed to send me the thing I had bought a couple of months ago from them. I guess this is supposed to make me feel charitable, however since you can actually send e-mail FROM your deathbed I would think a responsible seller would send email to folks where transactions were complete explaining thie before they had sent mail to them indicating that the next stop was Fraud Recovery services. The techs-r-us guys have done this for a long time, heck they even have a store front, which means they probably have at least one able bodied employee. Some how I find it hard that for the last couple of years their shipping department has relied on the filing health of on person. >After extracting the VAX from the box and unwrapping it, I discovered >the following: a rather ordinary VAX with what appears to be 16MB of >RAM, a KA660 CPU and two 300MB DSSI disks... and other interesting >bits described below. Well the fun thing about the 4000/200 is that it is the fastest "Qbus only" VAX. At 5 VUPs its great to run VMS on as a server, or NetBSD. >Seeing what appeared to be terminated miniature SCSI connetor and a >centronics connector, I was hoping to find a SCSI board in the system, but >no such luck. That would be the DSSI connector, looks like SCSI but it isn't. Hopefully it had the terminator plugged into it. The centronics connector is there because both DSSI and SCSI are 50 pin busses and you can put either SCSI _or_ DSSI drives in a BA213 (but not both) and if you are using it as an extension box you connect to the appropriate connector. I've had on DECSystem 5500 that used the SCSI side and a 4000/200 that used the DSSI side (different chassis of course!) >...what I did find, however: a dual height board labeled "Talon >Technology Corporation" connected to a DB15 connector. This board has >various numbers on it; not sure which one the model number is. Some >of the numbers are: 100501-2, 01B14 and 1242344. Does anyone know >what sort of critter this board is? Dual height, DB15, sounds like a frame buffer but looking at some of the chips will give you and idea. >The other somewhat interesting find: a set of boards labeled M3135-01, >M3135-02 and M3136. The M3135 boards appear to be something called >DECVoice and the M3136 connects the M3135 to T1 telephone service. Is >anyone familiar with these? It is correct to guess that this won't >work with a regular home telephone line? Thats correct. It also is a huge clue as to where this system came from, I'm guessing it was surplussed from the National Weather Service. Were there any tags or stickers on it? A lot of small VAXen with the DECTalk modules were being used as automated weather information devices. (So the Talon Tech board might hook it to a weather transmitter!) >Once I finish disassembling it, extract any spiders and move it inside >the house, I'll check it out, and see if it boots up. ...that is, if >I can find any place to put it, which I should have thought of before >buying it many months ago. Alas, it has neither a tape drive nor a >CD-ROM drive. There's one cable that looks like the type that >attaches to to a TK50 or TK70 drive, but no power connector in sight. >Am I going to need a tray for the tape drive that plugs into the >sockets on the backplane? Did they actually remove the tape drive? Or is the panel missing? Also which type of box is it in, BA400 or BA213? You didn't mention a tape controller in the list of boards (M7559 is the TQK70) so perhaps they ran it tape less. You can boot it from the network port, even when there is no OS on it.) I have to say I like the 4000/200. The monitor on the CPU is pretty nice, and I actually have the _real_ -TM for that one so I can figure out what its doing. --Chuck From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jul 21 12:14:25 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721072032.02f24ef0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721121250.02ff35c0@pc> At 08:13 AM 7/21/01 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: >> A number of scenarios went through my mind... hiding the disks, >> claiming they were manuals (although I suspect they can't sell >> the manuals, either) etc., but I just chalked it up to > >NOT "MANUALS"!!! >"BOOKS"! >In many such situations, "Manuals" can not be sold. But "Books" can. Or maybe I could have waved my hand and said "These aren't the droids you're looking for." These folk may be working in the cloaca of the massive State bureaucracy, but they're not stupid. This stuff looked like software - hard case, binder in case, "IBM" on the side, etc. - John From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 21 12:45:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes References: <20010721103934.H34664-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <000c01c1120c$e18e6e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> He's in Nebraska for the weekend, but I'll get a reading when he returns. His setup involves a rooftop dish that works as both a receiver and transmitter. The thing's about an 18" dish. This ISP is local, but I suppose there are others like 'em everywhere. He tells me it costs just under $100 per month. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: Re: DSL Woes > On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > My neighbor has a really high-bandwidth microwave link to some obscure > > ISP > > It would probably be out of my price range, but I'd be interested in > finding out what ISP that is. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From jrice at texoma.net Sat Jul 21 13:24:05 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes References: <200107211455.f6LEt5Z01287@bg-tc-ppp1150.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3B59C8C5.9C380DF6@texoma.net> Here in Dallas, Southwestern Bell ISDN service is flat rate, no time charges at all. I have two lines at my house, one router goes to the internet, and one to my office in downtown Dallas. That one I use to connect to our lan and through there, I bounce out to six remote sites as well. Bill Pechter wrote: > > > DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until > > 3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it > > costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed > > is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers > > around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to > > play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically > > at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business > > class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when > > it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a > > backup anyway. > > > > James > > The problem is the ISDN in NJ can run you hundreds of dollars in > time charges... where DSL is flat rate per month. > > Bill From jrice at texoma.net Sat Jul 21 13:26:21 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DSL Woes References: <20010720231037.N34664-100000@localhost> <002901c111ea$b1ff42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010721100150.02c75890@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B59C94D.12E25DD6@texoma.net> Here a T-1 would cost $800 per month, plus the cost of the CSU/DSU and router. I pay only $55.00 per month for my ISDN's and the routers were only a couple a hundred bucks each. Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 08:56 AM 7/21/01 -0500, James wrote: > >DSl won't be offered in my suburban area (21 miles from DT Dallas) until > >3rd Qtr 2002, so I opted for ISDN. It was insanely easy to set up, it > >costs about the same as DSL, but it never goes down. The download speed > >is slower than DSL or cable, unlike most of the DSL or cable subscribers > >around Dallas, the speed is a constant. My brother-in-law, who lives to > >play TribesII or Unreal, has a cable modem that slows down drastically > >at night when everyone is home and online. I'll probably get business > >class DSL (5 static IP's and a dedicated router, 1.5mb dl. 384 up)when > >it becomes available here, but I may keep the old reliable ISDN as a > >backup anyway. > > In that case consider getting a T-1 line. They are a _lot_ cheaper these > days, don't have distance limits and if you put an 802.11B repeater on your > roof and sell internet access to your neighbors to cover the cost. I've > often thought about getting a T-1 line pulled to the street and having half > a dozen of us geeks split the cost. > > --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 21 13:36:06 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 21, 1 12:39:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 491 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010721/6c4a020d/attachment.ksh From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 21 14:41:01 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Test Message-ID: <3B59DACD.E26F5C00@idirect.com> Hi, Testing! From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 21 14:56:54 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: EDSI Problem References: <3B59DACD.E26F5C00@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3B59DE86.CE09CA5B@idirect.com> Hi PDP-11 users, I need some really expert advice. I am running an Hitachi DK515-78 ESDI 600 MByte hard disk drive with a Sigma RQD11-EC ESDI quad Qbus controller. The box is a good working BA123 system (not the one with the bad power supply). The current configuration is: 2 MBytes quad PMI Memory 2 MBytes quad PMI Memory 11/83 quad CPU Sigma RQD11-EC quad controller DHV11 quad serial card Sigma dual EDSI controller / DLV11-J TK50 dual controller / TK70 dual controller At one time, I also had a quad TQK25 controller, a DZV11 quad serial card RQDX2 quad MFM controller DSD dual controller for DSD 880/30 (RL02/RX02) I think the system functioned OK for a while with the extra boards, but I can't be sure. In any case, about 4 years ago, I suddenly realized that the DK515-78 EDSI hard disk drives were not running at full speed during many multiple READ operations - like at least 5 MBytes - although it became really noticeable when I compared a full 32 MByte partition on one of the DK515-78 drives with another 32 MByte partition on a second DK515-78 drive. It is possible that this happened right from the start, but it is now so long ago that I can't remember. In any case, somehow I found that if I limited the total number of boards in the backplane to 7 quad boards or less (or their equivalent in dual/quad combination - i.e. a total of 7 quad slots), then the drives could still be READ at full speed. For example, right now I can compare a 32 MByte partition on one drive with an identical 32 MByte partition on a second drive in 4 minutes - when there are 7 quad boards. But if I add any more boards (RQDX2, TQK25, DZV11, etc. - not all, just one more), then the total compare time is more than 10 minutes. I don't have any drives connected to the dual ESDI controller right now, but when I did have one, a compare with more than 7 quad Qbus boards using just one DK515-78 drive plus an ST8760E on the dual ESDI controller still took about 10 minutes. When there were only 7 quad boards or less, the compare time dropped back to 4 minutes. HOWEVER, if I did a copy from the ST8760E on the dual controller to a DK515-78 on the Sigma quad controller, the time was only about 3 minutes regardless of how many boards were in the backplane. I suspect that the actual problem is that the sector size is too small on the Hitachi DK515-78 drives since there are only two options for sectors which end up as 512 bytes per block. WRITE operations seem to get through OK, but if the backplane is more loaded, then a READ operation often misses with the 1:1 interleave - sufficient to slow throughput by a factor of 2 or 3. If I have not provided enough information, please ask some more questions. Does anyone have a clue? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jul 21 15:29:37 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DecMate III Message-ID: I know that they're fairly common, but does anyone need one of these? I'll be at VCFE on Saturday and I'll bring it with me if anyone is interested. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From jss at subatomix.com Sat Jul 21 16:22:16 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Attention DEC collectors... In-Reply-To: <3B59BAFD.4DA7ED66@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20010721162127.K34664-100000@localhost> On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > I'd like to identifiy and trade some DEC hardware. > ... Very nice load of stuff! It ought to make its recipients happy. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 21 16:50:26 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DecMate III References: Message-ID: <002501c1122f$273174c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I know that they're fairly common, but does anyone need one of these? I'll > be at VCFE on Saturday and I'll bring it with me if anyone is interested. I have a copy of the HW, but none of the SW. If you had just a copy of the diskettes would be very helpful for a commoner like me. John A. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 21 16:57:50 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: EDSI Problem In-Reply-To: <3B59DE86.CE09CA5B@idirect.com> References: <3B59DACD.E26F5C00@idirect.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721145524.022124f0@209.185.79.193> At 03:56 PM 7/21/01 -0400, Jerome wrote: [Large detailed description of anomalous behaviour] Hi Jerome, have you tried moving your disk controllers closer to the CPU? moving them up the bus grant chain will help. Also you can tell the RQD11-EC to limit its DMA burst size which allows other boards to get in a bus cycle when they need to. I had a problem where adding a SCSI controller to a VAX killed disk performance on some ESDI drives but it was entirely due to the SCSI controller doing large DMAs that interfered with the time available for the ESDI drives to read or write buffers. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 21 17:47:59 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DecMate III In-Reply-To: <002501c1122f$273174c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: >> I know that they're fairly common, but does anyone need one of these? I'll >> be at VCFE on Saturday and I'll bring it with me if anyone is interested. > >I have a copy of the HW, but none of the SW. If you had just a copy >of the diskettes would be very helpful for a commoner like me. > >John A. > The disk images can be found online. I think they're in the Update archive. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 21 17:48:28 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: Anybody want/need MAINDEC diagnostic listings? Message-ID: <20010721174827.A9105@mrbill.net> I've got a few (about 10-15 pounds worth) of MAINDEC diagnostic source code listings, for various hardware bits and systems. Anybody want/need these? I certainly dont, and would like to see them go to a good home. I've also got some small magtapes, but will report on those once i'm able to read the labels.. bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 21 17:59:16 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: "30-30" (was Re: Winchester Technology) In-Reply-To: ; from aw288@osfn.org on Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 05:56:50PM -0400 References: <20010720121717.S9105@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010721175915.B9105@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 05:56:50PM -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > Not in my copy of the latter. What edition do you have? I beleive its the first edition. Copyright 1991 MIT, ISBN 0-262-16123-0. I read it again today, and might have been slightly mistaken as to the "3030" definition, although there was a "3330". Here's what the book says: - Page 495, chapter 9.2, "New Challenges in Storage": "The IBM 3330 Disk Storage (Figure 9.3) christened Merlin during its development, was announced in June 1970.." - page 507, chapter "New Challenges in Storage", second paragraph: "Specifications were negotiated with engineers responsible for small systems in the company's Boca Raton laborator. By August it was agreed that the storage unit should contain two spindles, each with a disk capacity of 30 megabytes. The engineers called it a "30-30". Recognizing this as the common name of a popular rifle manufactured by the Winchester Company, Haughton said, "If it's a 30-30, then it must be a Winchester." In this manner, the first Winchester file and its many descendants were christened." (footnote 32) - Page 508, second paragraph: "The Winchester disk file, announced in March 1973 and first shipped that November as the IBM 3340 Disk Storage Unit..." - Footnote 32: 32. K.E. Haughton, 18 September 1969: to file, "History of Winchester File", undated: "Education and Employment Information." The three engineers who joined Haughton and Harker in "dreaming up" disk storage configurations were Dwight Brede, George Santana, and James Sweet. The new manager for Storage Products was Marty Kelly All in all, its a DAMN good book, and one of my favorite reads. I found the earlier book to be not as "interesting", but at least I got a copy of it ("IBM's Early Computers") off eBay after 3 years of looking.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 21 18:01:57 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721100538.02cace70@209.185.79.193>; from cmcmanis@mcmanis.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:23:33AM -0700 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721100538.02cace70@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20010721180157.C9105@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 10:23:33AM -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: > Thats correct. It also is a huge clue as to where this system came from, > I'm guessing it was surplussed from the National Weather Service. Were > there any tags or stickers on it? A lot of small VAXen with the DECTalk > modules were being used as automated weather information devices. (So the > Talon Tech board might hook it to a weather transmitter!) Anybody know *where* I can find an external DECtalk unit, or am I delegated to having to pay $200+ for one from eBay? bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 21 18:02:31 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:56 2005 Subject: DecMate III In-Reply-To: ; from rcini@optonline.net on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 04:29:37PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010721180231.D9105@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 04:29:37PM -0400, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > I know that they're fairly common, but does anyone need one of these? I'll > be at VCFE on Saturday and I'll bring it with me if anyone is interested. Anybody near Austin, TX with one of these? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 21 18:03:19 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Proper front panels for LSI-11 PDPs? Message-ID: <20010721180319.E9105@mrbill.net> Anybody ever thought of building up a LSI-11-based PDP system, but with a proper "blinky" front panel? Would such a thing even be feasible, even with modern LEDs? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 21 18:19:53 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Proper front panels for LSI-11 PDPs? In-Reply-To: <20010721180319.E9105@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721161826.02220eb0@209.185.79.193> I've thought about it, and the blinky part it easy but making it do more than deposit memory bytes in non-PMI memory and start and stop the processor is problematic. One of my wild ideas is to put a couple of parallel ports in a VAX and have it emulate the front panel of a PDP-8 while software is emulating the machine. This is very feasible. --Chuck At 06:03 PM 7/21/01 -0500, you wrote: >Anybody ever thought of building up a LSI-11-based >PDP system, but with a proper "blinky" front panel? >Would such a thing even be feasible, even with modern >LEDs? > >Bill > >-- >Bill Bradford >mrbill@mrbill.net >Austin, TX From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Jul 21 19:17:25 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: EDSI Problem In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721145524.022124f0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20010722001725.66167.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > At 03:56 PM 7/21/01 -0400, Jerome wrote: > [Large detailed description of anomalous behaviour] > > Hi Jerome, have you tried moving your disk controllers closer to the > CPU? moving them up the bus grant chain will help. Also you can tell the > RQD11-EC to limit its DMA burst size which allows other boards to get in a > bus cycle when they need to. I had a problem where adding a SCSI controller > to a VAX killed disk performance on some ESDI drives but it was entirely > due to the SCSI controller doing large DMAs that interfered with the time > available for the ESDI drives to read or write buffers. Was that a controller for a TLZ04? We had problems with customers who tried to put a COMBOARD and a TLZ04 in the same VAX 4000 - it would lock up the microcode because of grant response issues. The TLZ04 card would grab the bus and our card would give up, but the CPU would try to give us a grant eventually, anyway. It wedged the computer so hard they had to power it off to unjam the bus. Apparently, the combination of a 1985 Qbus design that had never had to deal with a real timeout and a 1991 Qbus implementation didn't mix. BTW, I finally found that letter we got from DEC on the issue, where they list the DEC cards that don't work and play well in the VAX 4000. I'll be able to scan it this week. I know more than one person here has asked for the list. It's about 6-10 cards. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 21 19:45:08 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DECtapes available Message-ID: <20010721194508.M9105@mrbill.net> I've got the following 7" mag tapes (DECtape-I?) available. All are original DEC, with orange center labels. BB-N630A-BE PRO TK V1.0 VMS 16MT9 1982 BY-0061E-C0-0001 PROGRAMMING RSX-11M IN FORTRAN 1983 EY-0060E-CD-0001 (?) PROGRAMMING RSX-11M IN MACRO 1983 I've also got a complete set of FORTRAN-11 manuals to go with the tapes.. If anybody can use these, please let me know. Would like to swap for LSI-11 stuff, but if nothing else will see that these can go somewhere they can be used. I have no hardware to read the tapes. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 21 19:53:10 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: EDSI Problem References: <3B59DACD.E26F5C00@idirect.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010721145524.022124f0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3B5A23F5.A7CFE384@idirect.com> >Chuck McManis wrote: > Hi Jerome, have you tried moving your disk controllers closer to the > CPU? moving them up the bus grant chain will help. Also you can tell the > RQD11-EC to limit its DMA burst size which allows other boards to get in a > bus cycle when they need to. I had a problem where adding a SCSI controller > to a VAX killed disk performance on some ESDI drives but it was entirely > due to the SCSI controller doing large DMAs that interfered with the time > available for the ESDI drives to read or write buffers. Jerome Fine replies: On my original post, I included: The current configuration is: 2 MBytes quad PMI Memory 2 MBytes quad PMI Memory 11/83 quad CPU Sigma RQD11-EC quad controller DHV11 quad serial card Sigma dual EDSI controller / DLV11-J TK50 dual controller / TK70 dual controller So the controller is RIGHT BESIDE the CPU. Actually, on a different system, I used normal non-PMI memory in the normal position between the CPU and the controller. There was just one 4 MByte board in this case and it seems to have had a beneficial effect. But what I really do not understand about the above configuration is that when I add an extra module (always at or near the end of the chain), the only thing that is delayed are the READ operations. The WRITE operations always manage to run at the faster throughput. Is it possible that a READ requires a bigger gap between the records (blocks including their checksums) to confirm the checksum value and every so often the 1:1 interleave does not allow enough time? If a WRITE operation needs less checking than a READ operation and the number of bytes per sector is just on the edge (OK for a PC running at 166 MHz, but not for a PDP-11 running at only 15 MHz), then the problem could be explained in this way. I used the same drive on a PC (Pentium 166 with an ISA ESDI controller) and had no problems. On the other hand, with the XT8760E drive from Maxtor, they allow the sector size to be set at a value which is about 5 extra bytes larger than either one of the two choices available with the Hitachi DK515-78 hard drive. It just occurred to me that perhaps there is a very simple solution. If necessary, I will switch to the XT8760E drive and use the DK515-78 only as the primary backup. My secondary backup is magneto optical which I will access via a SCSI host adapter using a Sony SMO S501 drive which is somewhat slower and only 300 MBytes per each side of the removable cartridge. But since I have a large number of cartridges, having only half the space (i.e. only 8 * 32 MBytes of RT-11 partitions) in an RT-11 environment is problem which I suspect most RT-11 uses would have given their right arms for back in 1985 when a RD53 with all of 70 MBytes (and essentially non-removable and no TK70 as yet for backup) was about the largest available. I think that the RD54 at 150 MBytes came a year or so later. Note that 1985 is when V5.03 of RT-11 was released with the first MSCP device driver that was able to handle physical drives larger than 32 MBytes - 8 of them at one time for a total of 256 MBytes all at once. Of course the actual physical drive that MSCP could handle in RT-11 was already 2 GBytes, but only 256 MBytes of that at one time - and in the first V5.03 that DEC released, only partition ZERO could be booted. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jul 21 19:58:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DECtapes available In-Reply-To: DECtapes available (Bill Bradford) References: <20010721194508.M9105@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <15194.9528.660075.425945@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 21, Bill Bradford wrote: > I've got the following 7" mag tapes (DECtape-I?) > available. All are original DEC, with orange center labels. They aren't DECtapes...they're standard 600' 9-track magtapes. Just a nit. -Dave McGuire From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 21 20:05:46 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: EDSI Problem References: <20010722001725.66167.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B5A26EA.3F9326D@idirect.com> >Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Hi Jerome, have you tried moving your disk controllers closer to the > > CPU? moving them up the bus grant chain will help. Also you can tell the > > RQD11-EC to limit its DMA burst size which allows other boards to get in a > > bus cycle when they need to. I had a problem where adding a SCSI controller > > to a VAX killed disk performance on some ESDI drives but it was entirely > > due to the SCSI controller doing large DMAs that interfered with the time > > available for the ESDI drives to read or write buffers. > Was that a controller for a TLZ04? We had problems with customers who tried > to put a COMBOARD and a TLZ04 in the same VAX 4000 - it would lock up the > microcode because of grant response issues. The TLZ04 card would grab the > bus and our card would give up, but the CPU would try to give us a grant > eventually, anyway. It wedged the computer so hard they had to power it > off to unjam the bus. Apparently, the combination of a 1985 Qbus design > that had never had to deal with a real timeout and a 1991 Qbus implementation > didn't mix. Jerome Fine replies: I appreciate your reply and say thank for your input. However, although I do have a uVAX II around somewhere, I have not turned it on for at least 3 years and don't plan to do so for another 3 years. The only Qbus hardware (I stay away from Unibus hardware since I am too old to be playing with such lethal weights) that I use is for the PDP-11 and the only operating system I use is RT-11. So your references to VAX hardware are not in my experience - although the ESDI drives were probably a good fit for a VAX. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 21 20:14:47 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DECtapes available In-Reply-To: <15194.9528.660075.425945@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:58:32PM -0400 References: <20010721194508.M9105@mrbill.net> <15194.9528.660075.425945@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010721201447.O9105@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 08:58:32PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 21, Bill Bradford wrote: > > I've got the following 7" mag tapes (DECtape-I?) > > available. All are original DEC, with orange center labels. > They aren't DECtapes...they're standard 600' 9-track magtapes. Just > a nit. > -Dave McGuire My mistake, I've never used/dealt with these before. I'm just trying to find them a home. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jul 21 20:32:38 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DECtapes available In-Reply-To: Re: DECtapes available (Bill Bradford) References: <20010721194508.M9105@mrbill.net> <15194.9528.660075.425945@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20010721201447.O9105@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <15194.11574.7957.79883@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 21, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > I've got the following 7" mag tapes (DECtape-I?) > > > available. All are original DEC, with orange center labels. > > They aren't DECtapes...they're standard 600' 9-track magtapes. Just > > a nit. > > My mistake, I've never used/dealt with these before. I'm just trying > to find them a home. 8-) I'm sorry Bill; I didn't mean to sound like I was jumping on you about it. I guess I was distracted when I sent my reply. -Dave McGuire From spc at conman.org Sat Jul 21 22:55:55 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <002901c111ea$b1ff42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 21, 2001 07:40:24 AM Message-ID: <200107220355.XAA14675@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > Nevertheless, if you have any questions about ISDN and the quality of service, > I'd say it might be useful to ask him. Everyone else I know who once used ISDN > has gone to DSL or some other level of service. My neighbor has a really > high-bandwidth microwave link to some obscure ISP and he tells me he's getting > the equivalent (in bursts) of DS3 rates. I've yet to visit his newly organized > facility, but with the hardware I've seen him bring in over the past half-year, > I don't doubt his claim. I used to have ISDN and it was very easy to set up. BellSouth came out, hooked up a third line [1], and that was the end of their work. I ran the cable inside and configured the Ascend Pipeline 50 to work on my end, and the Ascend MAX on the ISP end [2] and had 128kbps up/down and never had a problem. Around '94 or '95, ISDN was flat rate, about the cost of two phone lines ($50/month) so it was cost effective back then to have it. Around '97 or so, the billing rates changed and only the first 300 minutes or so were flat rate, then BellSouth charged by the minute. It was easy enough to avoid the minutely charge rate by having the ISP call *me* up, so that's what I did. At that time, I had 32 static IP addresses to play around with [3]. That came to an end so I went with Velotel for IDSL [5] as that's all I could get to where I live.. 144kbps up and down and five static IP addresses for about $65/month and I could still control the reverse DNS (to a degree, I had to send in the records). Unfortunately, they used Northpoint as a DSL provider. @#$@#$! I then picked up Telocity and for some odd reason (I think they actually use BellSouth DSL) I could suddenly get ADSL at 1.5Mbps down and 400kbps up. Wonderful! Except for the single static IP address, which sucks (when you are used to, and using most of, 32 static IP addresses), but has given me the chance to play around with Linux as a firewall and router (on a 10yo 486 Compaq with three NICs [6]). -spc (And Linux itself is almost, if not already, 10 years old 8-) [1] I had a voice line and a modem line. I didn't want to loose the modem line until ISDN worked, and afterwards, a friend of mine offered to pay for the modem line if he could dial into me and go out my dedicated ISDN line. [2] I worked at the ISP 8-) [3] I also fixed the routing the supposed Network Admin set up. I figured 32 addresses wouldn't be missed. I even set it up so that I controled the reverse DNS for those 32 addresses [4]. [4] Details available upon request. It's a neat DNS hack. [5] It's ISDN but without the ISDN tarrifs. I don't pretend to understand this myself. [6] One for the Internet, one for my half of the network and one for my roommate's half of the network. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 21 23:28:54 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <200107220355.XAA14675@conman.org>; from spc@conman.org on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 11:55:55PM -0400 References: <002901c111ea$b1ff42c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <200107220355.XAA14675@conman.org> Message-ID: <20010721232854.U9105@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 11:55:55PM -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > [5] It's ISDN but without the ISDN tarrifs. I don't pretend to > understand this myself. its ISDN signalling over plain copper pair. The reason its so much cheaper is that the telco doesent have to provide call-handling (144K = the 2 64K B-channels plus the 16K D-channel that normally does call signaling). Therefore, you can use most semi-decent ISDN TAs for IDSL as well. Its good at a MUCH longer distance than "normal" DSL, and in some places, is all you'll be able to get.. I had ISDN till late '98, went to cablemodem for almost a year, then ADSL till about a month ago, when i switched back to cablemodem (2meg/485k, at $50/month... put everything behind a Linksys BEFSR "gateway", and all is well..) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sun Jul 22 00:26:31 2001 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DecMate III References: Message-ID: <001701c1126e$de088f50$9865fea9@DB> I've got a couple of DecMate IIIs and wouldn't mind having a spare but I probably won't make it to VCFE until Sunday. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Cini, Jr." To: "ClassCompList" Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: DecMate III > I know that they're fairly common, but does anyone need one of these? I'll > be at VCFE on Saturday and I'll bring it with me if anyone is interested. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > Collector of classic computers > Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /************************************************************/ > > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Jul 21 23:45:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721121250.02ff35c0@pc> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > At 08:13 AM 7/21/01 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > >> A number of scenarios went through my mind... hiding the disks, > >> claiming they were manuals (although I suspect they can't sell > >> the manuals, either) etc., but I just chalked it up to > > > >NOT "MANUALS"!!! > >"BOOKS"! > >In many such situations, "Manuals" can not be sold. But "Books" can. > > Or maybe I could have waved my hand and said "These aren't > the droids you're looking for." > > These folk may be working in the cloaca of the massive State > bureaucracy, but they're not stupid. This stuff looked like > software - hard case, binder in case, "IBM" on the side, etc. Pussy. Next time just kick some ass and take names. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Jul 22 00:58:59 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 09:45:47PM -0700 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721121250.02ff35c0@pc> Message-ID: <20010721225857.B17209@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sat, Jul 21, 2001 at 09:45:47PM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > > These folk may be working in the cloaca of the massive State > > bureaucracy, but they're not stupid. This stuff looked like > > software - hard case, binder in case, "IBM" on the side, etc. > > Pussy. For a few moments I thought you meant "no, not the cloaca of the massive State bureaucracy, the *pussy* of the masasive State bureaucracy". From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jul 22 04:34:50 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Reading data from a CDC Hawk Drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107220934.f6M9YoM00498@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 20 Jul, Kevin Murrell wrote: > As part of an emulator project I need to read data from many CDC Hawk packs. > I have a drive and I believe it is an SMD interface. AFAIK the format of SMD drives differs from controller type to controller type. That means you have to read the data from the drive with the same controller / machine it was written. > The drive also seems to be known as a DD1600. > Does anyone have any details on this drive? Google? http://theref.aquascape.com/hard_drives/mh__main.html ftp://ftp.seagate.com (CDCs disk devision was sold to Seagate) -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From crewey at thewho2000.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jul 22 05:00:38 2001 From: crewey at thewho2000.freeserve.co.uk (Andrew Crewe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: TERRAHAWKS SERIES 2 VIDEOS FOR SALE !!! Message-ID: <004101c11295$29b465c0$cc23883e@oemcomputer> 3 VHS PAL videos containing the completley unavailable series 2 of the Terrahawks, these were never released on video like much of series 1. Recorded from UK T.V in the eighties, TEN COPIES OF THE 3 VIDEO SET AVAILABLE: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1448285396 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010722/390f9bb4/attachment.html From rnlion at its.caltech.edu Sun Jul 22 05:49:31 2001 From: rnlion at its.caltech.edu (Rob Lion) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Thicknet Transceiver Message-ID: Hi, I have a thicknet transceiver here, an Allied CentreCOM 440, that has 4 AUI ports and an attachment to the backbone with a vampire tap. I was wondering if I can use this thing without connecting to a coax back bone at all, and still be able to network between the four computers attached? If I did so, would I need to terminate the would-be coax connection somehow? I have a bunch of computers sitting around here, mostly older SparcStations, that only have AUI connections, and it would be cheaper if I didn't have to convert each one to 10baseT. I was thinking that I might be able to use this box to connect 2 or 3 of those, and then have a Linux box connected to one port bridging it to the rest of the network. Thanks for any relevant (or hell, even irrelevant but interesting) information. Rob Lion -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT/E d- s:- a--- C++(++++) ULS+ P+ L+ E- W++ N+(++) o K w+++ O- M- V- PS+(+++) PE--(+) Y+ PGP t- 5- X+ R- tv b++ DI++ D++ G++ e h+ r- y ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 22 06:53:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Broken C128 Message-ID: <1222.603T250T7734171optimus@canit.se> One find this week, a C128. These new rules about the electronics manufacturers taking the responsiblity for discarded hardware doesn't seem as bad as it might, since the recycling station now has a dedicated skip for computers, home electronics and CRTs. However, the C128 only starts up with a black screen. The common VIC border is visible, but the screen is entirely black/grey instead of brown, and no text or prompts. What could be up here? Broken kernal (is it spelt with an A on Commodores?), broken BASIC, broken VIC? BTW, there's been a demo party in the building where I live this weekend. Lots of Polish hackers sleeping in the corridors and the garden, lots of C64s, and the things they did with them! Absolutely amazing! Voxel landscapes, fire effects, resolutions which I never thought possible of a VIC... Definitely worth visiting if one comes to your town. This was just a small party, though, mainly C64, instead of the "3000 PC users play Quake 3 Arena" parties common today. They also ran some Game Boy demos, but that's not on topic. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 22 07:26:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Thicknet Transceiver References: Message-ID: <001301c112a9$81dcf8c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If what you want is to create the effect of a hub with your multiport MAU you'll need a section of coax, probably at least 5M long with a 50-ohm termination at each end and your transceiver in the middle. Sadly, this is not a convenient way to do things, but if your stations are terminated in AUI connectors, that's the obvious way to do things. You might find it cheaper and easier to get a hub and put an AUI<=>TP adapter at each station. If you can't get those, it will still be possible to use AUI<=>10Base2 connectors and then interconnect your stations with RG58 coax with 'T's at each station and 50-ohm terminators at each end. That thicknet is pretty painful to accomodate, particularly with all the AUI cables. I've found these adapters at junk sales from time to time, and it's only cheaper to use the multiport MAU that you have if you already have the AUI cables. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Lion" To: Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 4:49 AM Subject: Thicknet Transceiver > Hi, > > I have a thicknet transceiver here, an Allied CentreCOM 440, that has 4 AUI > ports and an attachment to the backbone with a vampire tap. I was wondering > if I can use this thing without connecting to a coax back bone at all, and > still be able to network between the four computers attached? If I did so, > would I need to terminate the would-be coax connection somehow? I have a > bunch of computers sitting around here, mostly older SparcStations, that > only have AUI connections, and it would be cheaper if I didn't have to > convert each one to 10baseT. I was thinking that I might be able to use this > box to connect 2 or 3 of those, and then have a Linux box connected to one > port bridging it to the rest of the network. > > Thanks for any relevant (or hell, even irrelevant but interesting) > information. > > Rob Lion > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.12 > GAT/E d- s:- a--- C++(++++) ULS+ P+ L+ E- W++ > N+(++) o K w+++ O- M- V- PS+(+++) PE--(+) Y+ > PGP t- 5- X+ R- tv b++ DI++ D++ G++ e h+ r- y > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > From witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 22 08:04:12 2001 From: witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: AppleII GS software Message-ID: Hi folks, welcome to digest 666 if you're on digest mode :o) Has anyone got a spare copy of either ProDOS or GS/OS on 5 1/4" floppies I can swap/buy/whatever? I've discovered I can use the Disk ][ controller in slot 7 of the GS so my boxed one is about to be disked and fired up. Failing that has anyone got a spare 3 1/2" drive? My external Mac 400 or 800K drives don't work. cheers! adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum 0:OK, 0:1 From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jul 22 08:42:41 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010721121250.02ff35c0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722082706.02f27340@pc> At 09:45 PM 7/21/01 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: >> These folk may be working in the cloaca of the massive State >> bureaucracy, but they're not stupid. This stuff looked like >> software - hard case, binder in case, "IBM" on the side, etc. > >Pussy. >Next time just kick some ass and take names. Oh, you're just saying that because I made you look up "cloaca". :-) That box would've been nice, but I'd rather have good relations with the folks for the next thing I want that's actually sell-able and unmarked in price. I'd also like to find the real Dumpster where all this goes. I suspect they have one of those enclosed compactors behind an overhead door. Bummer. I used to get quite a lot of stuff from their old open Dumpsters - especially all the disks and manuals they'd toss that week. The last I got was three years ago or so, when I got an ASR-33 from the scrap metal bin. Those paying close attention would also note that a year or so ago, I bought a stack of mag tapes from this place that were almost 20 years old that actually contained files I worked on when I was working for the university. While an IBM hardcover box looks like "software" to them, apparently mag tapes don't. Similarly, they don't religiously zap software from systems unless they're PC-compatible, so the SGI Indigo that some guy got for $25 this week probably still had Irix and e-mail on the hard disk. The desire to enforce policy apparently ends at having to learn much about the system they're selling. Fortunately, this also extends to pricing. A few months ago I got a pair of Spectra Logic Bullfrog robotic backup libraries for $25 each. Each had 4 DDS-3 tape units in it, and the carousel held 58 tapes, so this puppy can handle more than 450 gigs. I eBay'd one for $400 or so and kept the other. I thought it should've gone for much more. A Wisconsin state agency paid $31,000 for it in 1996, according to Spectra's customer history. - John From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 22 09:06:23 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: TERRAHAWKS SERIES 2 VIDEOS FOR SALE !!! References: <004101c11295$29b465c0$cc23883e@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001e01c112b7$7e25b4c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > TEN COPIES OF THE 3 VIDEO SET AVAILABLE: Sorry but isn't this Off Topic? Now, Joe 90, that's another story! John A. From bshannon at tiac.net Sun Jul 22 09:22:28 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DECtapes available References: <20010721194508.M9105@mrbill.net> <15194.9528.660075.425945@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3B5AE1A4.1FCCE094@tiac.net> Real DECtapes eh? Are people looking for these? I have a box of two. Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 21, Bill Bradford wrote: > > I've got the following 7" mag tapes (DECtape-I?) > > available. All are original DEC, with orange center labels. > > They aren't DECtapes...they're standard 600' 9-track magtapes. Just > a nit. > > -Dave McGuire From gknight at emugaming.com Sun Jul 22 10:49:49 2001 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: TERRAHAWKS SERIES 2 VIDEOS FOR SALE !!! References: <004101c11295$29b465c0$cc23883e@oemcomputer> <001e01c112b7$7e25b4c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <002b01c112c8$e28c76e0$0101010a@pentium2> > Sorry but isn't this Off Topic? > Now, Joe 90, that's another story! No, TerraHawks are over 10 years old. I remember watching them as a child. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From jrice at texoma.net Sun Jul 22 11:27:56 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: OT Jurassic Park Message-ID: <3B5AFF0C.F8A2F9CD@texoma.net> Does anyone know what Silicon Graphics systems were featured in Jurassic Park (the first one)? I can't find my copy of the movie, I think my 8 year old has hidden it. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 22 11:48:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Apple II for intro to microprocessors References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 18, 1 10:03:48 am Message-ID: <002901c112ce$1d203ee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One little device family I forgot to mention previously is the MOT 68HC908 family, which apparently is an MCU family that is FLASH programmable, yet contains a hard-coded ROM monitor. For those of you fellows wishing to get smart about current generation single-chippers, this might warrant a look. There are some pretty small pin-count parts in this series, down to 20 pins, with lots of resources that you can either use or not, without interfering with your ability, largely, to use the pins as you see fit. Apparently the internal bus runs at 8 MHz, which is pretty quick, and, in fact, compares favorably with the low-end flash PIC's. Moreover, it has a pretty conventional architecture with both multiply and divide instructions. Dick From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 22 12:36:43 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector Message-ID: It appears that the engineers at DEC who designed the VAX4000-200 power supply may have been short on functional brain cells. Although due to a lack of MMJ or RJ-14 (I'd just cut the tabs off) connectors, I can't properly test this VAX, I thought I'd at least power it up, check the PSU and look at the LEDs. This was foiled by the need for a special power cord, or at least a, literally, hacked power cord. For those who haven't seen this PSU mains connector, it looks sort of like illustration A below, where the 'o' represents a piece of plastic sticking out to block a standard cable from being plugged in. - - o- - - - A B Did DEC have a reason for doing this, other than to be able to extort money from people who need replacement power cords, or to sell them new systems when they make replacement power corde obsolete? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jul 22 12:47:44 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Broken C128 In-Reply-To: <1222.603T250T7734171optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jul 22, 1 12:53:05 pm" Message-ID: <200107221747.KAA08808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > However, the C128 only starts up with a black screen. The common VIC border is > visible, but the screen is entirely black/grey instead of brown, and no text > or prompts. What could be up here? Broken kernal (is it spelt with an A on > Commodores?), broken BASIC, broken VIC? *Black/grey* instead of *brown*? The C128's system colours are light green on dark grey with a light green border in 40-column mode, and cyan on black in 80-column mode. What's the status of the 40/80 COL key, and what happens when you force the unit to 64 mode (hold down the C= key as you turn the unit on)? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Conscience makes egotists of us all. -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------ From ernestls at home.com Sun Jul 22 12:48:58 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: OT Jurassic Park In-Reply-To: <3B5AFF0C.F8A2F9CD@texoma.net> Message-ID: I think it was the Indigo. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of James L. Rice > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 9:28 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: OT Jurassic Park > > > Does anyone know what Silicon Graphics systems were featured in Jurassic > Park (the first one)? I can't find my copy of the movie, I think my 8 > year old has hidden it. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 22 12:53:28 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: OT Jurassic Park In-Reply-To: <3B5AFF0C.F8A2F9CD@texoma.net> Message-ID: >Does anyone know what Silicon Graphics systems were featured in Jurassic >Park (the first one)? I can't find my copy of the movie, I think my 8 >year old has hidden it. All I really noticed was SGI monitors and Mac's. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 22 12:53:00 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: TERRAHAWKS SERIES 2 VIDEOS FOR SALE !!! References: <004101c11295$29b465c0$cc23883e@oemcomputer> <001e01c112b7$7e25b4c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002b01c112c8$e28c76e0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <003d01c112d7$267a4360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > No, TerraHawks are over 10 years old. I remember watching them as a child. OK, since we're here... I was fortunate to have seen Supercar,FireballXL5, Thunderbirds,CptScarlet,UFO,1999. I understand that Joe 90 was about a student spy that had personalities downloaded into him by a computer (BigRAT?). Did TerraHawks have any neat computing in it? John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 22 12:56:11 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Broken C128 In-Reply-To: <1222.603T250T7734171optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >They also ran some Game Boy demos, but that's not on topic. =) Why, I've had a Game Boy for over 10 years, and IIRC, it's a 6502 based system. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 22 12:56:58 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DECtapes available In-Reply-To: <3B5AE1A4.1FCCE094@tiac.net> References: <20010721194508.M9105@mrbill.net> <15194.9528.660075.425945@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >Real DECtapes eh? > >Are people looking for these? I have a box of two. Yes, those that have the drives, or hope to get the drives are looking for them. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From matt at knm.yi.org Sun Jul 22 13:06:19 2001 From: matt at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > - - > o- - > - - > A B > > Did DEC have a reason for doing this, other than to be able to extort > money from people who need replacement power cords, or to sell them > new systems when they make replacement power corde obsolete? It's a standard power connector, it's just rated at 15A and not 10A IIRC, they're most commonly used here for kettles, hence the name "kettle plug" I might have a spare plug if you have trouble finding one :&) -- Matt --- E-mail: matt@pkl.net, matt@knm.yi.org, matt@printf.net matt@m-techdiagnostics.ltd.uk, matthew.london@stud.umist.ac.uk mattl@vcd.student.utwente.nl, mlondon@mail.talk-101.com Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jul 22 13:16:42 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Broken C128 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jul 22, 1 10:56:11 am" Message-ID: <200107221816.LAA10000@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >They also ran some Game Boy demos, but that's not on topic. =) > Why, I've had a Game Boy for over 10 years, and IIRC, it's a 6502 based > system. No. Z80, actually. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Actually, we can overcome gravity (just not the paperwork involved). ------- From tlindner at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 22 13:28:45 2001 From: tlindner at ix.netcom.com (tim lindner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Game Boy Processor (Was: Re: Broken C128) Message-ID: <1216295967-19260276@watermarkpress.com> >>They also ran some Game Boy demos, but that's not on topic. =) > > Why, I've had a Game Boy for over 10 years, and IIRC, it's a 6502 based system. > No, it is a Z80 with some modifications. I don't know any of the details. -- tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com "Life. Don't talk to me about life." - Marvin, the android From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 22 13:35:40 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector References: Message-ID: <3B5B1CFC.851F302E@internet1.net> It is standard? Anybody know a good cheap source? What I did for my Microvax 3400 was to carve a standard computer cord with a soldering gun. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Matt London wrote: > It's a standard power connector, it's just rated at 15A and not 10A IIRC, > they're most commonly used here for kettles, hence the name "kettle plug" > > I might have a spare plug if you have trouble finding one > > :&) > > -- Matt From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 22 14:00:56 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Matt London wrote: > It's a standard power connector, it's just rated at 15A and not 10A IIRC, > they're most commonly used here for kettles, hence the name "kettle plug" Interesting; actually, it's a rather good idea ...in some ways. That is, it's always useful to be able to substitute a heavy mains cord when a thinner one can't be found. I've seen a variety of unmarked mains cords; some are very heavy, and apparently rated for at least 15A, while others don't appear as though they should be used for circuits drawing more than 5A to 8A ...and all of the aforementioned use the same style connectors. > I might have a spare plug if you have trouble finding one Thanks very much for the kind offer; however, I think I'll just use a knife to hack a slice of rubber out of the connector on one of the heavy-duty mains cords that I have... this reminds me of what I had to do in order to convert a store-bought air-conditioner extension cord into a mains cord for a Tektronix 531 'scope that needed a "round" connector. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 22 13:55:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: ATTN: Michael L. Drew Message-ID: Looks like you might be having trouble getting eMail from me, I just recent my reply to you. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jul 22 14:23:14 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: available.... Message-ID: <003a01c112e3$c2933cf0$63769a8d@ajp166> I've decided to thin the herd some so the following is available for best offer or trade. * Visual 1050 system (x2) complete, hard disks, floppies, docs and tech manuals. Must pick up as it's two systems and fairly large/heavy with docs and all. Both work one prettier than the other, many spares. * S100 backplane for rackmount use. No PS. Nice decent bus. Pickup only, heavy and fairly large. As to trade material: Single board computers, ham gear, non computer test gear are of interest. Allison From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 22 13:12:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: TERRAHAWKS SERIES 2 VIDEOS FOR SALE !!! In-Reply-To: <004101c11295$29b465c0$cc23883e@oemcomputer> Message-ID: GOD DAMN IT WHERE THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT COMING FROM? I think we're on some spam list now. Great. On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Andrew Crewe wrote: > 3 VHS PAL videos containing the completley unavailable series 2 of the Terrahawks, these were never released on video like much of series 1. > Recorded from UK T.V in the eighties, TEN COPIES OF THE 3 VIDEO SET AVAILABLE: > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1448285396 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 22 14:11:06 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Broken C128 References: Message-ID: <002901c112e2$10ad8280$88f8fea9@98box> Nope, the Gameboy uses a modified Z80. Nintendo has made a habit of using slightly modified versions of common processors to discourage piracy, for example, the NES uses a 6502 chip with decimal mode removed and sound support added. Boy, i wish there was a "classic consoles" list out there. -Lanny ----- Original Message ----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 3:26 PM Subject: Re: Broken C128 > >They also ran some Game Boy demos, but that's not on topic. =) > > Why, I've had a Game Boy for over 10 years, and IIRC, it's a 6502 based system. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 22 14:25:35 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DEC B400X expansion chassis Message-ID: OK, my neighbor just dumped a B400X expansion chassis on me (unfortunatly he's keeping the VAX 4000-100). Is the backplane straight Q-Bus? I'm wanting to see about stuffing a VAX 3400 boardset in there (that he also gave me). I'm assuming I can't stick something like a 4000-300 boardset in it (really don't know as I've not had access to something like that), or do they plug directly into the Q-Bus? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 22 14:54:32 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: DEC KA640 connectors question Message-ID: OK, I've been looking into the B400X chassis, it looks to me like it is straight Q-Bus, however, the DSSI disks look to be a problem. It looks like a male HD50 connector is what connects to them. However, the KA640 CPU has 50-pin connector next to the one for the RAM, I'm guessing this is the DSSI connector. Is this correct? If so, then I'm needing to go from 50-pin ribbon to HD50, I don't suppose I'd be able to use a SCSI cable I've got that would do the trick. I've no idea what the DSSI pinout is, or how much I'd risk blowing something up. Maybe I should just turn the chassis into a PDP-11 w/SCSI disks :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jul 22 14:54:56 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's a higher amp (15 amp?) connector. They are seen commonly on larger Cisco equipment as well. They ensure that you use a heavy enough gauge wire on the power cord without requiring you to install an offset plug receptacle to plug the cord into. Before I found the correct cord in a box, I drilled out a standard cord to defeat this power plug. On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > - - > o- - > - - > A B > -- From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 22 15:16:36 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: <3B5B1CFC.851F302E@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > It is standard? Anybody know a good cheap source? What I did for my > Microvax 3400 was to carve a standard computer cord with a soldering > gun. A short while ago, I sat outside in the hot afternoon sun and whittled a notch in the connector on the cord. The heat apparently softened it somewhat, thus making the procedre easier. Now, the PSU checks out ok and the system counts down to 3 with no monitor attached, so, things are looking good. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From matt at knm.yi.org Sun Jul 22 15:02:29 2001 From: matt at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: <3B5B1CFC.851F302E@internet1.net> Message-ID: Hi, > It is standard? Anybody know a good cheap source? What I did for my > Microvax 3400 was to carve a standard computer cord with a soldering > gun. Yes it is standard :&) I get them from Maplin Electronics here in the UK, but any electronics retailer who sells connectors should have/be able to get them -- Matt --- E-mail: matt@pkl.net, matt@knm.yi.org, matt@printf.net matt@m-techdiagnostics.ltd.uk, matthew.london@stud.umist.ac.uk mattl@vcd.student.utwente.nl, mlondon@mail.talk-101.com Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Jul 22 15:26:16 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: <010722162616.2a403f4a@trailing-edge.com> While we largely talk about saving *old* programs and data here, there is an aspect we cannot ignore: making sure any transcriptions are good into the future. All of us who have tried to read some tapes that are just a few years old which gum up in the drive know that it is truly a false economy to buy anything except the best. (And I still swear by 3M Blackwatch, and *at* Memorex MRX IV.) Now that I'm beginning to recover enough from all the events of the past year to get minimal free time devoted to archiving, I find that my favorite CD-R media - Kodak Gold Ultima - is evidently being phased out. Kodak no longer lists gold/gold data media on their web page of "active media", and many of the online distributors have exhausted their warehouse stock. I've only got a few hundred left here. Now those of us who have been involved in darkroom activities for a while know that Kodak products/processes *do* come and go. Sometimes the reasons are environmental, sometimes the reasons are marketing related. In any event, this is one product I had grown to trust and now I'll miss it. (I still miss many of their fiber based papers and ortho films, and some of those disappeared a few decades ago! At least all that Selenium Toner I've absorbed over the years will preserve me for the next couple centuries...) It appears the demise of Kodak Gold Ultima is mostly marketing - they have a web page discussing its current "non-holding-inventory" status: http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/en/service/faqs/faq1008.shtml I reproduce the FAQ at the bottom. (Note that while they claim *their* cost has risen over the past two years, looking at the invoices *I've* been paying the price has actually dropped from $1.75 in bulk two years ago to just under a dollar each in the last batch I bought.) It looks like while they aren't *officially* discontinuing it, they are rasing the minimum order requirement to 100000 pieces, and it seems that all the distributors I deal with are no longer stocking it. Kodak's suggested replacement media - Kodak Ultima aka "Silver Plus" - is readily available, and looking at the techincal data on it it may be just about as good as the Gold Ultima. As far as I can tell, it's the same Phthalocyanine dye in both the Gold and "Silver Plus". The "Infoguard" topcoating seems to be just as good (if not better, judging by my scratch tests!) on the "Silver Plus". (Note that I put "Silver Plus" in quotes. While the official Kodak marketing material never uses this phrase, all of my Kodak invoices show this as the product's name. Note that the current Kodak pricing on "Silver Plus" is very good - straight from Kodak it's less than $0.30 each in bulk.) The other gold/gold name brand media that I'm aware of is Mitsui. These have never been as regularly distributed here in the states as well as Kodak, but it is possible to get them (even though a quick sample of online retailers show that of those who carry Mitsui CD-R's, only about 20% stock gold/gold.) I don't have as much experience with Mitsui Gold's, but they do have a good reputation in at least the bootlegging community. (Good to know that all those bootlegged Dead concerts will outlive the official record company CD's, huh?) I *did* pick up a pack of 80-minute IBM-labeled gold-colored CD's at the local Staples store and was quite surprised to find that the ATIP info claims the dye is Phthalocyanine and the media actually made by Ricoh. Of course, this doesn't mean that any other pack of IBM-labeled disks will be made by the same company or have the same specifications, and AFAIK Ricoh doesn't offer much in the way of archival properties data the way Mitsui and Kodak do. Tim. Kodak's FAQ 1008 follows: 1.Why has Kodak ceased holding inventory of KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media? The demand for KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media has fallen over the last two years. Due to these lower sales volumes, it is now far more expensive to make. However, the main reason for this change is that KODAK CD-R Ultima media - our unique and patented CD-R that contains a special combination of silver and real gold in its reflective layer - is now performing at levels that are essentially equal to KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media. For standard applications, no other brand beats KODAK CD-R Ultima media for stability. 2.But what if I still want KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media? There remain some commercial applications for which KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media is perfectly suited. To support these applications, Kodak will continue to make, on a custom-order basis, KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media. There are special order conditions that apply - contact your Kodak sales representative, distributor or reseller for full details. If your media needs support the 100,000-piece minimum order requirement, you can still custom order NSP, thermal white, inkjet white or inkjet clear KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media. Custom orders of these products will be packaged in the commercial bulk configuration which consists of 4X100 stacks of discs with a blank substrate at each end for protection, no spindle, shrinkwrapped. All custom order product is barcoded. 3.Is Kodak eventually going to discontinue Kodak Gold Ultima CD-R Media? Kodak currently has no plans to discontinue this product line. 4.How much information can each disc hold? KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima discs have 650 MB / 74 minute capacity. 5.Why wouldn't I switch to another media brand now that Kodak doesn't stock Gold Ultima CD-R media? Kodak still offers the highest performing media on the market in the form of KODAK Ultima CD-R Media. This media is the only disc on the market containing added gold for maximum stability while also offering maximum compatibility and longevity. Through meticulous testing Kodak continues to find that competitors' CD-R discs, which have a reflective layer of pure silver only, degrade quickly over time, resulting in the loss of important information. 6.What recording speeds can I use for CD-R Gold Ultima media? You can record at speeds of 1X to 12X to create discs that comply with the following standards: CD DA, CD ROM, CD-ROM XA, and CD-I. 7.What is the expected data life on KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media? KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media has a projected lifetime of 200 years or more. For more information , see http://www.cd-info.com/CDIC/Technology/CD-R/Media/Kodak/html 8.Does KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media have the INFOGUARD Protection System? Yes, KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media has INFOGUARD Protection. The INFOGUARD Protection System is proprietary and includes one of the most stable dye layers available today, along with super-tough overcoat to help protect the surface of the discs from scratches and fingerprints. In addition, the gold reflective layer provides an archival lifetime. 9.Does KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media work in all CD writers and CD readers? Yes. With this product, Kodak continues to provide media that work great in all leading writers and readers. 10.What is the warranty on KODAK CD-R Gold Ultima media? All of our Gold Ultima products that have the INFOGUARD Protection Systemand, therefore, carry a lifetime warranty. If any disc is found to be defective in manufacture or packaging, it will be replaced. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 22 14:49:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Thicknet Transceiver In-Reply-To: from "Rob Lion" at Jul 22, 1 03:49:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1170 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010722/b9151e91/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 22 14:56:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:57 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 22, 1 01:36:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1680 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010722/832e61c6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 22 15:16:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: <3B5B1CFC.851F302E@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Jul 22, 1 02:35:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010722/69f96482/attachment.ksh From gknight at emugaming.com Sun Jul 22 15:22:57 2001 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: OT Jurassic Park References: Message-ID: <006e01c112ed$a39fea00$0101010a@pentium2> Ernest > I think it was the Indigo. Yes it was. Amazon provides a veritable feast of information on the film and its sequel. "Director Spielberg, Steven was worried that "computer graphics" meant "Nintendo" type cartoon quality. He originally only wanted the herd of gallimimus dinosaurs to be computer-generated, but upon seeing ILM's demo animation of a T-rex chasing a herd of galamides across his ranch, he decided to shoot nearly all the dinosaur scenes using this method. The animation was first plotted on an Amiga Toaster, and rendered for the film by Silicon Graphics' Indigo workstations." Also take a look at: http://www.xtec.es/~dpermany/creditvirt/students/unit3/task1/whydino.html -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From gknight at emugaming.com Sun Jul 22 15:27:56 2001 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: TERRAHAWKS SERIES 2 VIDEOS FOR SALE !!! References: <004101c11295$29b465c0$cc23883e@oemcomputer> <001e01c112b7$7e25b4c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <002b01c112c8$e28c76e0$0101010a@pentium2> <003d01c112d7$267a4360$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <006f01c112ed$a680e9e0$0101010a@pentium2> John Allain wrote: > OK, since we're here... I was fortunate to have seen Supercar,FireballXL5, > Thunderbirds,CptScarlet,UFO,1999. I understand that Joe 90 was about a > student spy that had personalities downloaded into him by a computer > (BigRAT?). Did TerraHawks have any neat computing in it? IIRC TerrorHawks were flying ships that could combine into a robot. I've always loved robots, especially those that could transform into vehicles. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From gknight at emugaming.com Sun Jul 22 15:29:03 2001 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: TERRAHAWKS SERIES 2 VIDEOS FOR SALE !!! References: Message-ID: <007001c112ed$a9befde0$0101010a@pentium2> Sellam Ismail wrote: > GOD DAMN IT WHERE THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT COMING FROM? Bad hair day, Sellam? -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From gknight at emugaming.com Sun Jul 22 15:32:45 2001 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Gameboy, was Re: Broken C128 References: <002901c112e2$10ad8280$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <007101c112ed$ab611520$0101010a@pentium2> Lanny Cox wrote: > Nope, the Gameboy uses a modified Z80. Nintendo has made a habit of using > slightly modified versions of common processors to discourage piracy, for > example, the NES uses a 6502 chip with decimal mode removed and sound > support added. Boy, i wish there was a "classic consoles" list out there. I was on an emulation mailing list last year that discussed the basics of console microprocessors. However, the administrator moved it to their own domain and I never heard anything again. I would welcome any discussion on this list, classic computer or console. They both share a common history. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jul 22 16:09:38 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: DEC B400X expansion chassis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107222109.XAA24308@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 22 Jul, Zane H. Healy wrote: > OK, my neighbor just dumped a B400X expansion chassis on me > [...] Is the backplane straight Q-Bus? AFAIK it has straight Q/CD Backplane like in the BA21x enclosures. > I'm assuming I can't stick something like a 4000-300 boardset in it No. The 4k200 / KA 660 was the last Q/CD VAX CPU. The later 4k[34567]00 CPUs are using a special connector to the backplane. It caries the QBus, a DSSI bus and the memory interconnect. You need a BA440 for this CPUs. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Jul 22 16:16:30 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: DEC KA640 connectors question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107222116.XAA24321@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 22 Jul, Zane H. Healy wrote: > the DSSI disks look to be a problem. It looks > like a male HD50 connector is what connects to them. That is the usual DSSI connector. > However, the KA640 CPU has 50-pin connector next to the one for the RAM, > I'm guessing this is the DSSI connector. Is this correct? Yes. > If so, then I'm needing to go from 50-pin ribbon to HD50, I don't suppose > I'd be able to use a SCSI cable I've got that would do the trick. I've no > idea what the DSSI pinout is, or how much I'd risk blowing something up. SCSI and DSSI are using a different wiring to the HD50 connector. You can not connect a SCSI 50-pin ribbon to HD50 to a DSSI 50-pin ribbon to HD50 converter. > Maybe I should just turn the chassis into a PDP-11 w/SCSI disks :^) Why not! ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 22 16:36:37 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721100538.02cace70@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: Well, I did it. Yesterday, the new VAX 4000-200 was disassembled to the point where the chasis only had the CPU and memory boards left in it, then I slid it down the basement steps on a strip of cardboard... somehow, the VAX didn't run me over like a runaway boulder after Wile E. Coyote while I was sliding it down the steps. Perhaps if I was sane, I'd have had someone help me, or would have blocked the door-frame with a wooden board, run rope attached to the VAX around it, and slowly lowered the VAX down the steps. :-) Wow, even the nearly empty and baseless BA400 (BA440?) chasis is somewhat heavy! After getting it downstairs, I somehow moved it through a space, a couple of yards long, that was only a couple of inches wider than the cabinet, and re-seated it on its base, sans replacing the nuts that hold it to the base. There's not enough free-space there to do turn it sideways and bolt the base back on... perhaps what's needed is a VAXwinch-II (TM): some pullies attached to the ceiling that can be used to lift small VAXen. Anyway, it's now counting down to 3, so, something's working! :-) ...will know more when I can get a terminal attached. Do all VAX-4000/200 machines make a loud fan noise when first powered on, and then get much quieter? Are variable-speed fans being used, and is that noise a test of high-speed operation? Hopefully this machine has VMS on one of the hard drives to play with. :-) The only problem is that I don't recall which hard drive was drive 0 and which one was drive 1; I got them mixed up during disassembly, so some experimentation is in order. On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I'm glad you got your stuff. I've had a couple of ebay sellers tell me that Thanks. > Well the fun thing about the 4000/200 is that it is the fastest "Qbus only" > VAX. At 5 VUPs its great to run VMS on as a server, or NetBSD. Yes, that's one reason why I wanted it; plus the fact that I once worked with one, back around 1991. Actually, what I worked with was a re-baged MicroVAX 3400 with a VAX 4000 CPU installed and a VAX 4000 badge placed where the removed MicroVAX 3400 badge was. Also it appears a lot easier to work on than a MicroVAX in cramped quarters. > That would be the DSSI connector, looks like SCSI but it isn't. Hopefully At least DSSI drives still appear to still obtainable. SCSI would be more useful so that I could read a the hobbyist CD-ROM now that DECUS has finally sent me a membership number. Did DEC made any DSSI CD-ROM drives? > Dual height, DB15, sounds like a frame buffer but looking at some of the > chips will give you and idea. >From memory, there was a Motorola 68000 CPU, a few Rockwell chips, and a couple of AMD chips... I'll have to look at the board more closely. It appears that I'll be pulling this board out, for the time being, anyway, since this system is not going to be attached to a monitor any time soon. [M3135 and M3136] > Thats correct. It also is a huge clue as to where this system came from, It appears as though I'll be removing these three DECVoice and M3136 boards as well, if I can't use them with a regular home telephone line. Drats. I keep getting calls, routinely, for a certain business whose number is a digit off from mine, and it would be great fun to use this system to put their frequently mis-dialing customers through Telephonic Push-button Hell (TM): Hello, if you've called here to reach [company name], please press 1. Now, press 2. Very good; your education hasn't been a total failure. Please press 3 to reach [company name]. You've reached the new automated telephone system of [company name]; we highly value your business and seek to serve you better. This new system will make contacting us more convenient for you our valued customer. Our summer office hours are [blah, blah, blah], our winter office hours will be [same as the summer hours]; we hope that you're enjoying your summer as much as we are enjoying ours. Our mailing address is [blah, blah, blah], and our telephone number is [blah, blah, blah]. Again, our summer office hours [repeat the rest of the previous sencence]. We at [company name] are proud of our excellent customer service and all of the compliments that we receive from our loyal customers who give us their money to prove that we're the best company in the [ ... ] business. Thank you. By the way, please don't forget to check the due date on your latest statement from us after you hang up. Please enter the last ten digits of your telephone number followed by the pound sign. You've entered: [the numbers]. If this is correct, please press 1. If this is incorrect, please hang up and call back. You've entered 1; if this is correct, please press 2; if this is incorrect, please hang up and call back. Please listen carefully to the following menu before making any selections. For our summer business hours, please press 1. For our winter business hours, please press 2. For our mailing address, please press 3. For our telephone number, please press 4. To learn about our special offers, press 5. To learn about other special offers available only to new customers whose business we value the most, please press 6. To cancel your account with us, please press 7. To learn more about our services, please press 8. If you'd like to speak with a customer service representative, please press 0 for a menu of customer service representatives. To repeat this menu, please press 9. ...in the end, all selections would eventually lead to a message asking them to please learn to dial the right number, which they can find in the telephone directory. If some still bother to leave a message, then I suppose I could return their calls... at 3:00 AM. :-) > I'm guessing it was surplussed from the National Weather Service. Were Interesting... so was an old HP calculator that I bought at a hamfest! :-) > there any tags or stickers on it? None, aside from a small, easily removeable, label stating that this is "VAX 0040;" apparently part of a VAX farm. > A lot of small VAXen with the DECTalk > modules were being used as automated weather information devices. (So the > Talon Tech board might hook it to a weather transmitter!) Interesting. > Did they actually remove the tape drive? Or is the panel missing? Also There's just an empty bay, and a smoked plastic cover over where I'm guessing the tape drive should go (upper right corner). There's a tape drive cable that doesn't connect to any boards. I'd have to break something to remove the smoked plastic cover, however. > which type of box is it in, BA400 or BA213? You didn't mention a tape My guess is that it's a BA400 or BA440. There are two doors in the front that swing open, and no clear sliding door like I remember seeing on a VAX 3400. The buttons to restart and halt the system are in the far upper right, and are not those little squares of 4 of 6 buttons, with lights in the middle, like the MicroVAXen have. Also, it has a single PSU. Each hard drive has it's own cover, pushbuttons, drive-ID-select key, etc. > controller in the list of boards (M7559 is the TQK70) so perhaps they ran > it tape less. You can boot it from the network port, even when there is no > OS on it.) I'll pull the M7559 out of a Microvax II; the only problem is that I see no way to mount a TK70, or to easily connect any power to it. Do I need a device sled of some sort? Also, can I use a TK50 with the M7559? > I have to say I like the 4000/200. The monitor on the CPU is pretty nice, > and I actually have the _real_ -TM for that one so I can figure out what > its doing. Once I assemble a cord that will fit the odd telephone-like RJ-something sockets for a terminal, I'll check the CPU out further. What do you mean by having the real -TM for that one? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 22 16:24:50 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: Re: Strange PSU mains connector (Matt London) References: Message-ID: <15195.17570.415113.343004@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 22, Matt London wrote: > > - - > > o- - > > - - > > A B > > > > Did DEC have a reason for doing this, other than to be able to extort > > money from people who need replacement power cords, or to sell them > > new systems when they make replacement power corde obsolete? > > It's a standard power connector, it's just rated at 15A and not 10A IIRC, > they're most commonly used here for kettles, hence the name "kettle plug" They're are three power connectors in the "standard" family as defined by IEC...a low-, medium-, and high-current version. The low-current version is the one we're all used to, 10A. The one on some MicroVAX chassis is the 15A version. The third is a larger one (20A, I think but I'm not sure) that has three flat pins in a triangular arrangement but in two parallel planes, with a plain rectangular body. Tey're found on some larger Cisco routers (7513 for one) and on SGI Challenge-L systems for example. -Dave McGuire From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 22 16:36:06 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: X-10 stuff In-Reply-To: <200107222109.XAA24308@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: Bragging does not pay! Especially when one gets caught up in an inadvertant exaggeration as to years of use!! Since that interchange of emails, I have run across a rather strange problem with my X-10 setup and am - to date - stumped for a solution. What has happened is that the turn-on mode with my RS plug 'n power seems to be working as programmed (and as it always has) but the turn-off mode has ceased to function - at least during the times that I want it to. And when it quits functioning as programmed, it also blocks usage of the manual push button control. Let me cite some specifics. The p 'n p unit is programmed to turn on several lights at about 1930 hours, and then to turn them off at about 2330 and 2345 hours. I am forced to manually switch off the individual lamps using their own switches as the X-10 switch modules will not open. However, somewhere around noon of the following day I am able to press either p 'n p or manual control buttons to operate the X-10 switch modules. They then appear to remain functional until sometime later in the evening. I might also note that in an attempt to circumvent the problem, I changed house code to no avail. Anyone have any ideas that I might try to diagnose or cure? Thanks! - don From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jul 22 16:40:52 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <010722162616.2a403f4a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <200107222140.QAA13309@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Now that I'm beginning to recover enough from all the events of the past > year to get minimal free time devoted to archiving, I find that my > favorite CD-R media - Kodak Gold Ultima - is evidently being phased out. > Kodak no longer lists gold/gold data media on their web page of "active > media", and many of the online distributors have exhausted their warehouse > stock. I've only got a few hundred left here. > Have you checked americal.com, their web pages still have these listed so I assum ethey are available. use the product finder, type in "kodak digital audio gold' and you will find 2 items, a 30 pack for $49.99 and a 200 pack for $299.99 -Lawrence LeMay From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 22 16:41:29 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: Re: New toy: VAX with DECVoice (R. D. Davis) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721100538.02cace70@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <15195.18569.824867.854265@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 22, R. D. Davis wrote: > Anyway, it's now counting down to 3, so, something's working! :-) > ...will know more when I can get a terminal attached. Do all > VAX-4000/200 machines make a loud fan noise when first powered on, and > then get much quieter? Are variable-speed fans being used, and is > that noise a test of high-speed operation? They are variable-speed fans. I'm not sure why they do that on powerup in these machines, but I have seen situations in which variable-speed fans were in use and, due to the control circuitry, they didn't have enough power applied to them when the system was powered up to overcome static friction and get the rotor going. I'm guessing that DEC knew about this and designed the control circuitry to give them a little "kick" at powerup to make sure they're all running, then spin them down to the speed required by the temperature of the machine. -Dave McGuire From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 22 17:17:10 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice References: Message-ID: <003b01c112fc$0d9f8060$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Do all VAX-4000/200 machines make a loud fan noise when first > powered on, and then get much quieter? I can vouch for my 3400,3500 that they do as you describe. At first I thought it was some sort of problem with a current shortage, after some experience I acccepted it as normal. It could be that the system has fan speed in reserve for when it gets too hot, and this is just a POST of the fan subsystem. Don't know this for sure though. P.S. While having VMS on the disks can relieve effort it can also create new problems, namely re-setting passwords (fairly easy to deal with) and redoing an expired liscence. Anybody know if Montagar can permit the use of an older copy of VMS like OpenVMS 6.2? John A. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jul 22 17:36:26 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: <003b01c112fc$0d9f8060$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: The DECsystem 5400 does this as well. The fans are not the modern three wire type with the RPM sensor, tho. (Not sure about on the 4000/xxx series). The same setup exists on the DECserver 5x0 series QBUS machines as well. A Compaq field person told me once that the other fan is supposed to go faster if one fails but we have had several fail on several DECserver 550's and I never noticed the audible pitch change. The current VMS hobby licenses don't care about the version of VMS you're running. Under the old hobby scheme I believe the licenses would work on any version but you were only in compliance if you ran specific versions of VMS. On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > > Do all VAX-4000/200 machines make a loud fan noise when first > > powered on, and then get much quieter? > > I can vouch for my 3400,3500 that they do as you describe. At first > I thought it was some sort of problem with a current shortage, after > some experience I acccepted it as normal. It could be that the system > has fan speed in reserve for when it gets too hot, and this is just a POST > of the fan subsystem. Don't know this for sure though. snip > and redoing an expired liscence. Anybody know if Montagar can > permit the use of an older copy of VMS like OpenVMS 6.2? -- From rnlion at its.caltech.edu Sun Jul 22 18:07:35 2001 From: rnlion at its.caltech.edu (Rob Lion) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: <15195.17570.415113.343004@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > They're are three power connectors in the "standard" family as defined > by IEC...a low-, medium-, and high-current version. The low-current > version is the one we're all used to, 10A. The one on some MicroVAX > chassis is the 15A version. The third is a larger one (20A, I think > but I'm not sure) that has three flat pins in a triangular arrangement > but in two parallel planes, with a plain rectangular body. Tey're > found on some larger Cisco routers (7513 for one) and on SGI > Challenge-L systems for example. > > -Dave McGuire Does anyone know of a good website or PDF or something that has pictures of all these options, and also the different varieties of locking and nonlocking power plugs? I've been looking for a good reference for this stuff for a long time, and have never found anything. Thanks, Rob Lion From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 22 17:53:42 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2129 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010722/c0af83a8/attachment.ksh From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1159.monmouth.com Sun Jul 22 18:11:32 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1159.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Sad experience In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010722082706.02f27340@pc> from John Foust at "Jul 22, 2001 08:42:41 am" Message-ID: <200107222311.f6MNBW407054@bg-tc-ppp1159.monmouth.com> > Fortunately, this also extends to pricing. A few > months ago I got a pair of Spectra Logic Bullfrog > robotic backup libraries for $25 each. Each had 4 > DDS-3 tape units in it, and the carousel held 58 > tapes, so this puppy can handle more than 450 gigs. Whoa... we're using them at work... Damn... nice deal. If I could get one of these for at home I'd be in heaven. > > I eBay'd one for $400 or so and kept the other. > I thought it should've gone for much more. A Wisconsin > state agency paid $31,000 for it in 1996, according to > Spectra's customer history. > > - John Still -- a nice profit. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1159.monmouth.com Sun Jul 22 18:18:17 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1159.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Attention DEC collectors... In-Reply-To: <3B59BAFD.4DA7ED66@tiac.net> from Bob Shannon at "Jul 21, 2001 01:25:17 pm" Message-ID: <200107222318.f6MNIH407228@bg-tc-ppp1159.monmouth.com> > I'd like to identifiy and trade some DEC hardware. > > Some of this can be made available at VCF East... > > Backplanes: > > DD11-CK (normal 4-slot unibus backplane I think) Sounds right... > > DD11-DF (is this the VT-11 backplane??) DD11-DF sounds like a DD11-D with the BA11F box wire harness on it for 11/35/40/45/55/50 or 11/70 use.5/50 or 11/70 use. > > DD11-CF (or is this the VT-11 backplane?) Sounds like a DD11-C 4 slot back plane for above F box... Been a long time since DEC and I should've kept the options module list when I left. Serves me right for being a good employee. 8-( Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From rcini at optonline.net Sun Jul 22 18:25:58 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: VCFE etiquette Message-ID: Hi: I have a small "shopping list" and not having been to one of the VCFs before, I wondered it it was worthy posting it here in case someone is willing to trade for cash. Any thoughts? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From ken at seefried.com Sun Jul 22 19:06:17 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Papertape software on eBay In-Reply-To: <200107222310.SAA35690@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200107222310.SAA35690@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010723000617.7699.qmail@mail.seefried.com> I saw this, and figured it was probably useful to someone here... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257123318 You are bidding on 2 trays of paper tape softare for a Digital PDP-8E. Included in the 2 trays are: Self Starting Binary Loader, Binary Punch Teletype, Absolute Loader, Binary Loader, Symbolic Editor, PAL III, ODT (low and hi), DDT, Octal Dump, Basic-8, FOCAL, Four User Overlay for FOCAL, Unitlites Overlay for FOCAL, FOCAL 8 and init, DKSE Clocks Diag, DECtape Formatter, DECtape Copy, DECTape Diagnostic, TD8E DECtape Subroutine, Randon Tests, Basic JMP tests, Instruction Test 1, TTY and KL8 tests, Adder tests, DECtape diagnostic, Memory tests, Extended arith tests, 4K Mem test, Ext mem test and more. High bidder pays shipping by preferred method. Payment by International Money Order only. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Jul 22 20:18:38 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: <010722211838.2a404002@trailing-edge.com> > Have you checked americal.com, their web pages still have these listed > so I assum ethey are available. use the product finder, type in "kodak > digital audio gold' and you will find 2 items, a 30 pack for $49.99 and > a 200 pack for $299.99 But those are CD-R's intended for Digital Audio, not Data. I know they can be used for data, but I'd obviously prefer to have the data CD-R's available too. A couple of places still list Kodak Gold Ultima CD-R (data, not audio) as being discontinued but still in stock, including www.cdroutlet.com. It's a shame that such a fine storage media gets displaced by all the el-cheapo-will-probably-deteriorate-in-a-decade-or-so cheap stuff that's everywhere. It's as if folks don't believe that 650 MBytes of data is worth a couple bucks anymore, just because they can store it on 15 cent media for a couple years. They've fallen victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia", but only slightly less famous is this: "Never confuse the cost of the media with the value of the data". Tim. From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jul 22 20:21:05 2001 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Reading data from a CDC Hawk Drive In-Reply-To: <200107220934.f6M9YoM00498@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: Thanks for looking. The references point to Seagate's later Hawk drives. The drive I am talking about is a tad bigger! An internal fixed disk, and a top loading pack on the same spindle. The disk packs are of a similar size to RK05 packs, albeit top loading rather the front. I have a vague idea they were also used on early Diablo machines. Kevin > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of > jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de > Sent: 22 July 2001 10:35 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Reading data from a CDC Hawk Drive > > > On 20 Jul, Kevin Murrell wrote: > > > As part of an emulator project I need to read data from many > CDC Hawk packs. > > I have a drive and I believe it is an SMD interface. > AFAIK the format of SMD drives differs from controller type to > controller type. That means you have to read the data from the drive > with the same controller / machine it was written. > > > The drive also seems to be known as a DD1600. > > Does anyone have any details on this drive? > Google? > http://theref.aquascape.com/hard_drives/mh__main.html > ftp://ftp.seagate.com (CDCs disk devision was sold to Seagate) > -- > > > > tschuess, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 22 20:24:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: Message-ID: <001a01c11316$3bff9b60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't know anything about these boards that you don't, but since the name is hard to read, do you suppose that that "RONAN" board could be from KONAN? They made disk controllers. Is there enough stuff to suggest it's a disk controller, e.g. PLL components? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 4:53 PM Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > This didn't go out the first time for some reason.... > > I spent the afternoon digging in one of my many piles of computer bits, > looking for some HP9825 calculator interfaces. I found the interfaces, > and I also found some other stuff, including some Apple ][ boards. Not > being an Apple ][ expert, I'm not sure what some of them are, so I'm > asking here. I doubt I've found anything particularly interesting, > though. I'll give details of any identifying labels on the boards, and > the main chips used. > > Memsoft TC2E0260. This board looks hand-soldered, and some components are > missing. It's got a 6850 (ACIA), MC3486, MC3487 (Buffers), and TTL glue > on it. And space for a 2716 EPROM. > > Advanced Text Systems P.001. Contains a 6520 (PIA), 2 off 7416 (buffers). > There's a DB25 connector on the end of a short length of ribbon cable. > > Mountain Computers ROMwriter. Clearly an EPROM programmer, with a 24 pin > ZIF socket. I found 2 of these boards. > > Prog RWP. Another EPROM Programmer, this one has a 28 pin ZIF socket. > Also an 8255 (Parallel chip), EPROM, PSU components (to get the Vpp line, > I guess). > > ICE Apple Cold Boot Adapter. Contains 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL glue, and a 26 > pin header > > ICE Multiplexor (sic) Host Adapter. 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL, 20 pin header > > Ronan Corp. I can't find a number on this board, and the name is almost > unreadeable. This is not an Apple ][ card, but it was with the above 2 > boards and may have something to do with them. It contains a Z80, EPROM, > 1K RAM (2*2114), SCX6225 (ASIC/gate array? It's in a PLCC package). > There's a 26 pin header (host?) and a 34 pin + 2*20 pin headers (ST506 > hard disk??). There's also a disk-drive like power connector. > > Orange Micro Buffered Grappler+. This looks to be a printer > interface/buffer and contains 64K DRAM, EPROM, Microcontroller, TTL glue, > and has a 26 pin header (to the printer?) > > Apple Synch Printer Interface Card. I think this is the Silentype interface. > > Apple PC Link Interface. Contains an EPROM, M58725, TTL glue and buffers. > Also a 20 pin header. > > Does anybody recognise any of those boards and can tell me more about them? > > -tony > > From ernestls at home.com Sun Jul 22 22:54:11 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Ronan/Konan board does sound like a disk controller but I'm not sure about the Z80 chip? Maybe it's supposed to be a Z80 single board system, on a card? Are these cards for sale? I'm an avid Apple II and Apple II clone collector, so new parts are always fun to find. Ernest (ernestls@home.com) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 3:54 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > > > This didn't go out the first time for some reason.... > > I spent the afternoon digging in one of my many piles of computer bits, > looking for some HP9825 calculator interfaces. I found the interfaces, > and I also found some other stuff, including some Apple ][ boards. Not > being an Apple ][ expert, I'm not sure what some of them are, so I'm > asking here. I doubt I've found anything particularly interesting, > though. I'll give details of any identifying labels on the boards, and > the main chips used. > > Memsoft TC2E0260. This board looks hand-soldered, and some components are > missing. It's got a 6850 (ACIA), MC3486, MC3487 (Buffers), and TTL glue > on it. And space for a 2716 EPROM. > > Advanced Text Systems P.001. Contains a 6520 (PIA), 2 off 7416 (buffers). > There's a DB25 connector on the end of a short length of ribbon cable. > > Mountain Computers ROMwriter. Clearly an EPROM programmer, with a 24 pin > ZIF socket. I found 2 of these boards. > > Prog RWP. Another EPROM Programmer, this one has a 28 pin ZIF socket. > Also an 8255 (Parallel chip), EPROM, PSU components (to get the Vpp line, > I guess). > > ICE Apple Cold Boot Adapter. Contains 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL glue, and a 26 > pin header > > ICE Multiplexor (sic) Host Adapter. 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL, 20 pin header > > Ronan Corp. I can't find a number on this board, and the name is almost > unreadeable. This is not an Apple ][ card, but it was with the above 2 > boards and may have something to do with them. It contains a Z80, EPROM, > 1K RAM (2*2114), SCX6225 (ASIC/gate array? It's in a PLCC package). > There's a 26 pin header (host?) and a 34 pin + 2*20 pin headers (ST506 > hard disk??). There's also a disk-drive like power connector. > > Orange Micro Buffered Grappler+. This looks to be a printer > interface/buffer and contains 64K DRAM, EPROM, Microcontroller, TTL glue, > and has a 26 pin header (to the printer?) > > Apple Synch Printer Interface Card. I think this is the Silentype > interface. > > Apple PC Link Interface. Contains an EPROM, M58725, TTL glue and buffers. > Also a 20 pin header. > > Does anybody recognise any of those boards and can tell me more > about them? > > -tony > From ernestls at home.com Sun Jul 22 22:57:08 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: available.... In-Reply-To: <003a01c112e3$c2933cf0$63769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: ...er, where are you at? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of ajp166 > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 12:23 PM > To: Classic Computers > Subject: available.... > > > I've decided to thin the herd some so the following is available > for best offer or trade. > > * Visual 1050 system (x2) complete, hard disks, floppies, docs > and tech manuals. Must pick up as it's two systems and > fairly large/heavy with docs and all. Both work one prettier than > the other, many spares. > > * S100 backplane for rackmount use. No PS. Nice decent bus. > Pickup only, heavy and fairly large. > > As to trade material: Single board computers, ham gear, > non computer test gear are of interest. > > Allison > From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jul 22 23:12:13 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: DSL Woes In-Reply-To: <20010721232854.U9105@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010722230809.G1912-100000@localhost> On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > put everything behind a Linksys BEFSR "gateway", and all is well..) I have one of those also, and I'd recommend it to anyone else in our situation. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From marvin at rain.org Sun Jul 22 23:13:38 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Bubble Cassette References: <001a01c11316$3bff9b60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B5BA472.7F44030B@rain.org> I am still going through the junque that came from our radio club bazaar and came across five modules labeled "Bubble Cassette". It has a small pull tab that when pulled out, the word "record" appears. This is a new term to me; anyone know what these things are? From jss at subatomix.com Sun Jul 22 23:22:48 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <010722211838.2a404002@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20010722232023.G1912-100000@localhost> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > But those are CD-R's intended for Digital Audio, not Data. Hmmm. I thought that the only difference between "audio" CD-Rs and "data" CD-Rs was that one of them had an extra tax added to the price to pad the pockets of record company execs. I saw it on Slashdot, so it must be true. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sun Jul 22 23:26:54 2001 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Broken C128 --> Gameboy CPU = ~Z80 References: Message-ID: <00ff01c1132f$b4450f60$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> The old and new Nintendo Gameboys are based on a custom cmos Z80 derivative that is missing the shadow "prime" registers and IN/OUT instructions. Heinz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" > >They also ran some Game Boy demos, but that's not on topic. =) > > Why, I've had a Game Boy for over 10 years, and IIRC, it's a 6502 based system. > > Zane From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Jul 22 23:52:49 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Bubble Cassette In-Reply-To: <3B5BA472.7F44030B@rain.org>; from marvin@rain.org on Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:13:38PM -0700 References: <001a01c11316$3bff9b60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B5BA472.7F44030B@rain.org> Message-ID: <20010722215249.A13984@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sun, Jul 22, 2001 at 09:13:38PM -0700, Marvin wrote: > > I am still going through the junque that came from our radio club bazaar and > came across five modules labeled "Bubble Cassette". It has a small pull tab > that when pulled out, the word "record" appears. This is a new term to me; > anyone know what these things are? Maybe bubble memory? (It stores small magnetic domains or "bubbles", but it's solid-state.) From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jul 23 00:15:56 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010722221538.00a27580@mail.zipcon.net> it's possible that the Z80 is being used as an IO processor on that board. At 08:54 PM 7/22/01 -0700, you wrote: >The Ronan/Konan board does sound like a disk controller but I'm not sure >about the Z80 chip? Maybe it's supposed to be a Z80 single board system, on >a card? > >Are these cards for sale? I'm an avid Apple II and Apple II clone collector, >so new parts are always fun to find. > >Ernest (ernestls@home.com) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 3:54 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > > > > > > This didn't go out the first time for some reason.... > > > > I spent the afternoon digging in one of my many piles of computer bits, > > looking for some HP9825 calculator interfaces. I found the interfaces, > > and I also found some other stuff, including some Apple ][ boards. Not > > being an Apple ][ expert, I'm not sure what some of them are, so I'm > > asking here. I doubt I've found anything particularly interesting, > > though. I'll give details of any identifying labels on the boards, and > > the main chips used. > > > > Memsoft TC2E0260. This board looks hand-soldered, and some components are > > missing. It's got a 6850 (ACIA), MC3486, MC3487 (Buffers), and TTL glue > > on it. And space for a 2716 EPROM. > > > > Advanced Text Systems P.001. Contains a 6520 (PIA), 2 off 7416 (buffers). > > There's a DB25 connector on the end of a short length of ribbon cable. > > > > Mountain Computers ROMwriter. Clearly an EPROM programmer, with a 24 pin > > ZIF socket. I found 2 of these boards. > > > > Prog RWP. Another EPROM Programmer, this one has a 28 pin ZIF socket. > > Also an 8255 (Parallel chip), EPROM, PSU components (to get the Vpp line, > > I guess). > > > > ICE Apple Cold Boot Adapter. Contains 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL glue, and a 26 > > pin header > > > > ICE Multiplexor (sic) Host Adapter. 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL, 20 pin header > > > > Ronan Corp. I can't find a number on this board, and the name is almost > > unreadeable. This is not an Apple ][ card, but it was with the above 2 > > boards and may have something to do with them. It contains a Z80, EPROM, > > 1K RAM (2*2114), SCX6225 (ASIC/gate array? It's in a PLCC package). > > There's a 26 pin header (host?) and a 34 pin + 2*20 pin headers (ST506 > > hard disk??). There's also a disk-drive like power connector. > > > > Orange Micro Buffered Grappler+. This looks to be a printer > > interface/buffer and contains 64K DRAM, EPROM, Microcontroller, TTL glue, > > and has a 26 pin header (to the printer?) > > > > Apple Synch Printer Interface Card. I think this is the Silentype > > interface. > > > > Apple PC Link Interface. Contains an EPROM, M58725, TTL glue and buffers. > > Also a 20 pin header. > > > > Does anybody recognise any of those boards and can tell me more > > about them? > > > > -tony > > From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 23 01:37:55 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: BOOT ORDER ON AN APPLE//GS Message-ID: <3B5BC643.4BD72A@internet1.net> Hello People, I have a Rom3 //gs. I also have a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives made by Applied Engineering that I would like to use with it. If I plug only the 3.5" drive into the gs it boots fine, but takes awhile. If I plug the 5.25" drive into the 3.5" drive to dasiy chain them, the computer boots from the 5.25" floppy and the 3.5" drive isn't seen at all. Am I doing something wrong? Did I fry something when I plugged the 3.5" drive into my //e to see if it worked? Does the gs have dip swithes ot jumpers I need to change? I think this is odd behavior. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 04:35:05 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: <3B5BC643.4BD72A@internet1.net> References: <3B5BC643.4BD72A@internet1.net> Message-ID: For those of you interested, a PDP8a has appeared for sale on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257927980 Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pechter at bg-tc-ppp57.monmouth.com Mon Jul 23 07:46:19 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp57.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Reading data from a CDC Hawk Drive In-Reply-To: from Kevin Murrell at "Jul 23, 2001 02:21:05 am" Message-ID: <200107231246.f6NCkJJ10499@bg-tc-ppp57.monmouth.com> > Thanks for looking. The references point to Seagate's later Hawk drives. > The drive I am talking about is a tad bigger! An internal fixed disk, and > a top loading pack on the same spindle. The disk packs are of a similar > size to RK05 packs, albeit top loading rather the front. > > I have a vague idea they were also used on early Diablo machines. > > Kevin There were similar drives from Ampex -- Interdata/Perkin-Elmer/Concurrent had them... Perhaps this will jar someone's memory. Bill From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 22 21:43:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Broken C128 In-Reply-To: <200107221747.KAA08808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <969.604T800T2234733optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> However, the C128 only starts up with a black screen. The common VIC border >> is visible, but the screen is entirely black/grey instead of brown, and no >> text or prompts. What could be up here? Broken kernal (is it spelt with an >> A on Commodores?), broken BASIC, broken VIC? >*Black/grey* instead of *brown*? The C128's system colours are light green on >dark grey with a light green border in 40-column mode, and cyan on black in >80-column mode. What's the status of the 40/80 COL key, and what happens when >you force the unit to 64 mode (hold down the C= key as you turn the unit on)? It's been some months since I powered up my C128D, but I certainly seem to recall its screen being brownish. Are you certain you've not pushed the green button on your 1084 or 8833? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 22 21:45:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Broken C128 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <616.604T2250T2255795optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>They also ran some Game Boy demos, but that's not on topic. =) >Why, I've had a Game Boy for over 10 years, and IIRC, it's a 6502 based >system. I see I failed to point out that they were for the Game Boy Colour, which is a much newer system, though the only difference to the classic system is the tacked-on colour support. BTW, the GB is not based on the 6502, but on a particular Nintendo Z80 with special sound registers. The NES uses a 6502 with similar features, however. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jul 23 08:21:47 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <010722211838.2a404002@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010723082016.02f25ef0@pc> At 09:18 PM 7/22/01 -0400, CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: >less famous is this: "Never confuse the cost of the media with the value of >the data". So apart from keeping a safety copy of all your CD-Rs on big cheap hard disks, you should buy 100,000 from Kodak and re-sell them, right? If this archival CD is popular, won't someone step forward and buy a bunch to sell? How much is a 100,000 CD lot? - John From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jul 23 08:54:22 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Broken C128 In-Reply-To: <969.604T800T2234733optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jul 23, 1 03:43:16 am" Message-ID: <200107231354.GAA08712@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >*Black/grey* instead of *brown*? The C128's system colours are light green on > >dark grey with a light green border in 40-column mode, and cyan on black in > >80-column mode. What's the status of the 40/80 COL key, and what happens when > >you force the unit to 64 mode (hold down the C= key as you turn the unit on)? > > It's been some months since I powered up my C128D, but I certainly seem to > recall its screen being brownish. Are you certain you've not pushed the green > button on your 1084 or 8833? Trust me, it's green on grey. I have a 1902, and I powered up mine yesterday. What does C64 mode do? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Coffee. Delight. Border. May I see your passport please? -- Firesign Theater From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 09:17:59 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010723141759.47289.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > For those of you interested, a PDP8a has appeared for sale on eBay. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257927980 I notice the seller didn't forget the obligitory "*RARE*" -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 09:18:55 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <20010722232023.G1912-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <20010723141855.60620.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > > But those are CD-R's intended for Digital Audio, not Data. > > Hmmm. I thought that the only difference between "audio" CD-Rs and "data" > CD-Rs was that one of them had an extra tax added to the price to pad the > pockets of record company execs. I saw it on Slashdot, so it must be > true. I thought besides the built-in digital recordable media fee (RIAA tax), there were some header bits set so that audio recorders would agree to write on them. N'est pas? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 23 09:24:55 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010722221538.00a27580@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <000001c11384$b7ca8c00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's a pretty safe assumption. Back in the Apple-][ days, XEBEC and others used Z80's for just that purpose on their bridge controllers, while ADAPTEC used 8085's. If the board has a power connector, it's pretty suggestive that it wasn't intended to plug into a backplane. There are exceptions, of course, but few hard disk interfaces of that era provided power to its drives through the backplane. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Reed" To: Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 11:15 PM Subject: RE: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > it's possible that the Z80 is being used as an IO processor on that board. > > At 08:54 PM 7/22/01 -0700, you wrote: > >The Ronan/Konan board does sound like a disk controller but I'm not sure > >about the Z80 chip? Maybe it's supposed to be a Z80 single board system, on > >a card? > > > >Are these cards for sale? I'm an avid Apple II and Apple II clone collector, > >so new parts are always fun to find. > > > >Ernest (ernestls@home.com) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > > > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 3:54 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > > > > > > > > > This didn't go out the first time for some reason.... > > > > > > I spent the afternoon digging in one of my many piles of computer bits, > > > looking for some HP9825 calculator interfaces. I found the interfaces, > > > and I also found some other stuff, including some Apple ][ boards. Not > > > being an Apple ][ expert, I'm not sure what some of them are, so I'm > > > asking here. I doubt I've found anything particularly interesting, > > > though. I'll give details of any identifying labels on the boards, and > > > the main chips used. > > > > > > Memsoft TC2E0260. This board looks hand-soldered, and some components are > > > missing. It's got a 6850 (ACIA), MC3486, MC3487 (Buffers), and TTL glue > > > on it. And space for a 2716 EPROM. > > > > > > Advanced Text Systems P.001. Contains a 6520 (PIA), 2 off 7416 (buffers). > > > There's a DB25 connector on the end of a short length of ribbon cable. > > > > > > Mountain Computers ROMwriter. Clearly an EPROM programmer, with a 24 pin > > > ZIF socket. I found 2 of these boards. > > > > > > Prog RWP. Another EPROM Programmer, this one has a 28 pin ZIF socket. > > > Also an 8255 (Parallel chip), EPROM, PSU components (to get the Vpp line, > > > I guess). > > > > > > ICE Apple Cold Boot Adapter. Contains 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL glue, and a 26 > > > pin header > > > > > > ICE Multiplexor (sic) Host Adapter. 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL, 20 pin header > > > > > > Ronan Corp. I can't find a number on this board, and the name is almost > > > unreadeable. This is not an Apple ][ card, but it was with the above 2 > > > boards and may have something to do with them. It contains a Z80, EPROM, > > > 1K RAM (2*2114), SCX6225 (ASIC/gate array? It's in a PLCC package). > > > There's a 26 pin header (host?) and a 34 pin + 2*20 pin headers (ST506 > > > hard disk??). There's also a disk-drive like power connector. > > > > > > Orange Micro Buffered Grappler+. This looks to be a printer > > > interface/buffer and contains 64K DRAM, EPROM, Microcontroller, TTL glue, > > > and has a 26 pin header (to the printer?) > > > > > > Apple Synch Printer Interface Card. I think this is the Silentype > > > interface. > > > > > > Apple PC Link Interface. Contains an EPROM, M58725, TTL glue and buffers. > > > Also a 20 pin header. > > > > > > Does anybody recognise any of those boards and can tell me more > > > about them? > > > > > > -tony > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 23 09:41:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010723103805.00a52d00@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:53 PM 7/22/01 +0100, Tony wrote: >Mountain Computers ROMwriter. Clearly an EPROM programmer, with a 24 pin >ZIF socket. I found 2 of these boards. Tony, Like you, I've never been seriously intersted in Apples but I remember seeing these. I'm not sure exactly what they were intended for but I'll look through my old magazines and see if I can fidn any ads. FWIW I passed up one of these that was NIB at a hamfest about 2 years ago. Joe From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 11:09:45 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Latest Haul: TRS-80/Apple/Commodore Message-ID: Hello all, On Saturday, I took a pleasant road trip to Coventry, RI (about 1.25 hours South of me) to a school that was closing down to get some old computers. I knew they had some interesting stuff, but had no idea what awaited.... None of this is rare (as far as I know) or anything, but it was a nice find for me... Also, some more stuff is there, but I will not make it down for another trip before they close on 07/31. I will post more information in a separate message. The haul was: - 1 Apple IIc+ with external 5.25" floppy drive - 1 Apple IIc composite monitor (the small green one on a stand) - 1 Laser 128EX, with monitor, and external 5.25" and 3.5" drives - 1 Apple color composite monitor - Many disks of Apple II software, including DOS 3.3 and ProDOS disks, and the "Introducing the IIc" series of disks - Apple Assembly Language book by Don Lancaster (forgot the name) - Apple IIe SAMS Photofacts - Applesoft manuals - 2 TRS-80 Model 4P (in nice shape, and working condition!) - 7 TRS-80s, mixture of Model III and 4, some with no floppies, some with 1 5.25" and some with 2 5.25". Varying amounts of RAM. All appear to be in working condition, though not great cosmetically - 2 TRS-80 Network 3 Controllers (NO clue what these are... Anybody?) - One device (I forget the name), with a "TRS-80" in the name, that has 16 connectors on the back, 16 LEDs on the front, and a rotary dial on the front to select one of the 16 inputs. NO clue what it does... I'll get the details and post later. - MANY TRS-80 disks, including some original boot disks, SCRIPSIT originals, and others. - Some Nice condition TRS-80 manuals - 13 Commodore 64 "breadbox" computers, many with power supplies and TV switches - 2 MSD "Super Disk" units (one w/ broken latch on one of the drives) - 2 VIC-20s in original boxes (one with a brown computer cover in the box) - Many original C64 and VIC-20 Educational Software disks - C64 and VIC-20 manuals, Programmer's reference guides, books, etc. Some of this stuff will not be staying with me. I rescued it to keep it from the dumpster. I also told the principal that I would try to sell it, and any monies would go to the school (my incentive for doing it is the stuff I keep, plus I actually think this is fun!). I will post a separate list of available stuff, and anything that doesn't sell will go to eBay.... But I'll give you all first cut at it... The format will be sealed bids, accepted for some number of days, with the stuff going to high bidder. Rich B. From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 23 11:07:36 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010723082016.02f25ef0@pc>; from jfoust@threedee.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:21:47AM -0500 References: <010722211838.2a404002@trailing-edge.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010723082016.02f25ef0@pc> Message-ID: <20010723110736.M616@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 08:21:47AM -0500, John Foust wrote: > So apart from keeping a safety copy of all your CD-Rs on > big cheap hard disks, you should buy 100,000 from Kodak and > re-sell them, right? If this archival CD is popular, won't > someone step forward and buy a bunch to sell? How much is > a 100,000 CD lot? > - John What makes these Kodak CD-Rs so much better than other CD-R media? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 23 11:07:00 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: ; from jhellige@earthlink.net on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 05:35:05AM -0400 References: <3B5BC643.4BD72A@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010723110700.L616@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 05:35:05AM -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote: > For those of you interested, a PDP8a has appeared for sale on eBay. > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257927980 > Jeff Interesting. I didnt know they made -8s with the "minimalist" console.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 23 11:14:14 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Bubble Cassette In-Reply-To: <20010722215249.A13984@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: > > I am still going through the junque that came from our radio club bazaar and > > came across five modules labeled "Bubble Cassette". It has a small pull tab > > that when pulled out, the word "record" appears. This is a new term to me; > > anyone know what these things are? > Maybe bubble memory? (It stores small magnetic domains or "bubbles", but > it's solid-state.) That's what it sounds like. The tab is presumably a write-protect of some sort. Is it bigger than a breadbox? Is the outer shell made of animal, vegetable, or mineral? Any connectors? I'm not sure, but IIRC, the early Gavilan called their memory modules "Bubble Cartridge", but it was actually just low power static RAM with a battery in a 2" x 2" x 1" dark gray plastic box with a card edge at one side and a removal pry lever on top. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 23 11:16:56 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: Test Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513B5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Just testing, hoping that CodeRed didn't silence everyone... -dq From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 23 11:24:13 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:58 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: Re: PDP8a popped up for auction (Bill Bradford) References: <3B5BC643.4BD72A@internet1.net> <20010723110700.L616@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <15196.20397.5220.631966@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 23, Bill Bradford wrote: > > For those of you interested, a PDP8a has appeared for sale on eBay. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257927980 > > Jeff > > Interesting. I didnt know they made -8s with the "minimalist" console.. The 8/a was the last of the pdp8 family. There were several versions of it. It's an interesting design. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 23 11:30:59 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: Re: PDP8a popped up for auction (Ethan Dicks) References: <20010723141759.47289.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15196.20803.134250.304447@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 23, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > > For those of you interested, a PDP8a has appeared for sale on eBay. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257927980 > > I notice the seller didn't forget the obligitory "*RARE*" As annoying as "*RARE*" has become on eBay, I've seen exactly ONE of those front panels...and I've been actively hacking pdp8s for nearly twenty years. YMMV. -Dave McGuire From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jul 23 11:55:38 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: <15196.20803.134250.304447@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <200107231655.LAA17792@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On July 23, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > For those of you interested, a PDP8a has appeared for sale on eBay. > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257927980 > > > > I notice the seller didn't forget the obligitory "*RARE*" > > As annoying as "*RARE*" has become on eBay, I've seen exactly ONE of > those front panels...and I've been actively hacking pdp8s for nearly > twenty years. YMMV. > > -Dave McGuire > Whereas I've only seen 2 8a's in my life, and both had those panels, plus they are available if you're willing to buy em from resellers... -Lawrence LeMay From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 12:16:20 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: <20010723110700.L616@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010723171620.41055.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 05:35:05AM -0400, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > For those of you interested, a PDP8a has appeared for sale on eBay. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257927980 > > Jeff > > Interesting. I didnt know they made -8s with the "minimalist" console.. So far, that's all I have - two styles - one with a cable on a DIP header, one with a BERG connector. Both kinds look the same from the outside - three lights, three switches - power, battery charging and run; power on/off, panel lock and boot. Not very exciting. I ordered a programmer's console that hasn't arrived yet. One of the things I want to do with it is run RTS-8 to watch the null job count decimal (0000, 1111, 2222... 8888, 9999) on an octal display. It's not as nice as the Cylon display on a 8/e, but with a digital display, it's as interesting as it gets. The other thing I want to do with it is provide input to the various PDP-8/e MAINDEC tapes I have. They are all written to require a console and I can't debug problems with the -8/a CPUs I have that are suspect if I can't get under to hood. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dsegel at pacbell.net Mon Jul 23 12:18:53 2001 From: dsegel at pacbell.net (Daniel A. Segel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010723103805.00a52d00@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010723101617.00a53d10@postoffice.pacbell.net> Taking a cue from Joe, I looked through a few back issues of Byte. No ads for the ROMWriter directly, but there is a picture of one in a box on the page 19 ad of the June 1982 issue. On the box it says: Programs 2716 EPROMS Frees RAM Memory Space $175 Daniel Segel At 10:41 AM 07/23/2001 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:53 PM 7/22/01 +0100, Tony wrote: > >>Mountain Computers ROMwriter. Clearly an EPROM programmer, with a 24 pin >>ZIF socket. I found 2 of these boards. > Tony, > > Like you, I've never been seriously intersted in Apples but I remember seeing these. I'm not sure exactly what they were intended for but I'll look through my old magazines and see if I can fidn any ads. FWIW I passed up one of these that was NIB at a hamfest about 2 years ago. > > Joe -- "Being humble is why I'm a great person." Daniel A. Segel dsegel@pacbell.net From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 12:54:21 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Stuff Available in Rhode Island Message-ID: Hello all, There is a school that I recently visited in Coventry, RI that has some computer stuff available. I took quite a bit when I went on Saturday, but more is left, and it wouldn't fit in my truck. I won't have a chance to get to the school before they close on 07/31, and I told them I'd get the word out. If any of you are coming down to VCF East, it would be an ideal time to go. The only catch is it's about an hour from Marlboro by car. The school is St. Xavier's Academy, and the contacts are Maureen O'Gorman (mailto:maureen@maureen.com) and Kathy Siok (ride7158@ride.ri.net). Phone number is (401) 826-2130. They are looking for donations, so the stuff is not free, but the donation does not have to be huge $$$. What's left (as of Saturday -- act fast, some of this may be going to the dump soon): - Several TRS-80 printers, ribbons, cables - Zenith luggable, looke like maybe a Z-150?? - Two Macintosh computers -- unsure of the model, I think LC?? Low Profile, one has an external hard drive - A sweet Apple IIe setup, 2 drives, monitor, nice IIe, maybe a CP/M card, as I saw some CP/M disks lying around - About 10-15 old TV sets (13") that were used as monitors for their Commodore computers - Lots of Mac software - A couple of PC monitors (15" i believe) - Some Commodore and TRS-80 Software (mostly educational) There may be more -- that was all I can recall was left. Also, contact Maureen or Kathy for more specific details. My memory stinks, so I'm sure I left out some stuff... Rich B. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 23 12:59:35 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: Re: PDP8a popped up for auction (Lawrence LeMay) References: <15196.20803.134250.304447@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107231655.LAA17792@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <15196.26119.544467.646082@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 23, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > As annoying as "*RARE*" has become on eBay, I've seen exactly ONE of > > those front panels...and I've been actively hacking pdp8s for nearly > > twenty years. YMMV. > > Whereas I've only seen 2 8a's in my life, and both had those panels, plus > they are available if you're willing to buy em from resellers... They both did? Wow. I've only seen a couple of 8/a's, and they've all had the BA11SA-style "three switches" panel. An interesting thing...That front panel is very similar to that of the pdp11/34 KY11-LB panel. The KY11-LB is controlled by an i8008 processor. I wonder if the 8/a programmer's panel uses an i8008 as well. Also, the pdp11/60 has a similar front panel. Anyone know? I had a pdp11/60 once, but never dug into the panel. Which brings up a neat memory...a friend and I sold that pdp11/60 and a bunch of VT220s to Pennington Prep School in Pennington, NJ many years ago as a timesharing system for their CompSci classes. It ran RSTS/E v9.4 on a pair of RL02s. That was a nice system...I liked it a lot. Yeah, good point about the 8/a's being available from resellers...I wouldn't want to see those prices, though. -Dave McGuire From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 13:02:36 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Boot disk for Apple IIc+ Message-ID: Hello all, Does anyone have, or know where I can get a 3.5" boot disk for an Apple IIc+? I have an old ProDOS 5.25" disk, but it does not recognize the 3.5" disk. (As if you couldn't guess, I'm keeping the IIc+ :-) ) Thanks! Rich B. From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Jul 23 13:12:38 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: EOM Clearance (aka free stuff in Indiana) Message-ID: <7b.17eb32d3.288dc316@aol.com> EOM Clearance (aka free stuff in Indiana) Having cleared most of the machines out of my 10x20 rental storage, I have decided to clear it all out and vacate it by the end of the month. Following is a list of what's available, some of it in storage, some here at home. All this is available for free to those that come pick it up. I'm located a few miles south of Terre Haute, Indiana. FREE, FOR PICKUP ONLY: ------------------------------------------------------------ DEC: VAXstation 2000's - There are six of these, one is a recent one and untested. The other five have been test fired using a VR260 and all found to work and complete the self-test OK. None of these machines have a disk drive. Have an LK201 keyboard, hockey puck mouse and the BC18P combination video/kb/mouse cable for most of these machines. MicroVAX 2000 - There is one of these, completely diassembled and in a box. Also have a spare MS400 2mb board and this is unused still in original box. This goes in the 2000. Also have two TK50Z-FA tape boxes. VT220 - Have 4, none have been tested. Includes LK201 kb. VT320 - Have 1, has not been tested. Includes LK201 kb. DS200 Terminal Server - 3 ea DELNI - around 6 ea On the DS200's & DELNI's, don't forget to ask about MMJ and AUI cables, I am sure I can include a cable or two. ------------------------------------------------------------ VME: Motorola Model VME/10 System Contains: 1 ea MVME400 board 1 ea MVME201 boards Micropolis 1304 43mb hard drive, untested Also have a monitor, but no video cable. Believe the keyboard is around here somewhere. Also have a machine around here that is a plain white case with a VME motherboard and several cards. Beyond that I have forgotten and it is too dang hot right now to go pop the hood on it. If you are interested, I will see what I can do to get more info when it cools in the evening. Jupiter Technologies - There used to be a company in Massachusetts that made was commonly referred to a UGC (Universal Gateway Controller). It amounts to a box that can interface to various network protocols and convert them to other protocols using 'softblocks'. I have a few complete units and more spare boards than I can count. I rescued them due to the VME boards only to realize that each processor card contained a Jupiter proprietary 160 pin chip. I doubt what they would be as much use to the hobbyist aside from pulling the CPUs, SIMMs, and Eproms. I list them here in the event you come after some other VME stuff. These might then be of interest. ------------------------------------------------------------ IBM: Model 5182 Personal Computer Color Printer Parallel Interface, dot matrix 132 column This works, but needs a new ribbon ------------------------------------------------------------ Hewlett Packard: Model 2631G 132 column dot matrix printer This has a 24 pin connector, IIRC GPIB interface. Condition unknown. ------------------------------------------------------------ Intel: Have a couple IBM PC/XT's with 5 1/4 full height floppies and 10 mb HDs. No IBM kb's, video cards, or monitors though. Have been tested and do work. Have an IBM AT, IIRC this has been tested and works. Beyond that there is the usual Intel flotsam. Various boxes, 286, 386, and the like. ------------------------------------------------------------ Misc flotsam: Who knows what is here. There are some hard drives, tape drives, keyboards, mice, and the like. There is too much to list separately. If you come and pick up some of the stuff above, we will make a tour of the basement and see what turns up. ---------------------------------------- I feel like I have forgotten some stuff. So we'll start with this and go from here. Mike Thompson From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 23 13:17:38 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010723103805.00a52d00@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Yes, Orange Micro "Grappler" IS almost certainly a printer interface. Orange Micro was heavily involved with printers and interfaces for them in the 1980s. It probably won't help you any, but I'm pretty sure that there was one of those boards in one of the Apples that I gave away a year ago, and there is probably documentation for it in the stuff that Sellam got from me. (Yes, I understand your workshop being crowded. I recently had to give up 2000 sq ft of storage, and had to get rid of lots of stuff, even magazines and some books.) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 23 12:36:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: VCFE etiquette In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > I have a small "shopping list" and not having been to one of the > VCFs before, I wondered it it was worthy posting it here in case > someone is willing to trade for cash. Any thoughts? Or you can use the VCF East BBS: http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/bbs.php ...but I don't know how well-traveled it is (I guess I should turn reporting on, huh? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 23 13:29:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <001a01c11316$3bff9b60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 22, 1 07:24:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 971 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/ed427aa1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 23 13:33:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: from "Ernest" at Jul 22, 1 08:54:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1090 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/2e10d0c3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 23 13:48:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010723103805.00a52d00@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jul 23, 1 10:41:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 660 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/466c1cfa/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 23 13:03:53 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Memsoft TC2E0260. This board looks hand-soldered, and some components are > missing. It's got a 6850 (ACIA), MC3486, MC3487 (Buffers), and TTL glue > on it. And space for a 2716 EPROM. > > Advanced Text Systems P.001. Contains a 6520 (PIA), 2 off 7416 (buffers). > There's a DB25 connector on the end of a short length of ribbon cable. No clue...I have hundreds of Apple ][ boards and have never heard of these (at least according to current memory). > Mountain Computers ROMwriter. Clearly an EPROM programmer, with a 24 pin > ZIF socket. I found 2 of these boards. > > Prog RWP. Another EPROM Programmer, this one has a 28 pin ZIF socket. > Also an 8255 (Parallel chip), EPROM, PSU components (to get the Vpp line, > I guess). I've got a couple EPROM programmer boards, but I don't know if I have either of these. I know with one of them I got the software. > ICE Apple Cold Boot Adapter. Contains 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL glue, and a 26 > pin header > > ICE Multiplexor (sic) Host Adapter. 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL, 20 pin header Interesting. Again, never heard of them. They sound like some sort of terminal server system, maybe allowing an Apple to be shared? Naw, that's silly. > Ronan Corp. I can't find a number on this board, and the name is > almost unreadeable. This is not an Apple ][ card, but it was with the > above 2 boards and may have something to do with them. It contains a > Z80, EPROM, 1K RAM (2*2114), SCX6225 (ASIC/gate array? It's in a PLCC > package). There's a 26 pin header (host?) and a 34 pin + 2*20 pin > headers (ST506 hard disk??). There's also a disk-drive like power > connector. No clue. > Orange Micro Buffered Grappler+. This looks to be a printer > interface/buffer and contains 64K DRAM, EPROM, Microcontroller, TTL > glue, and has a 26 pin header (to the printer?) A very nice buffered parallel printer interface. Made life MUCH nicer when you went to print a long multiple page document and didn't have to wait for the print to end before you could use your computer again. > Apple Synch Printer Interface Card. I think this is the Silentype interface. Probably. > Apple PC Link Interface. Contains an EPROM, M58725, TTL glue and > buffers. Also a 20 pin header. Sweet. Does what it says, let's you link an Apple to a PC. Who is the manufacturer on this? The only card of this type I know of was the PC Transporter by Applied Engineering (still looking for one of those BTW :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 23 13:05:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Yes, Orange Micro "Grappler" IS almost certainly a printer interface. > Orange Micro was heavily involved with printers and interfaces for > them in the 1980s. As far as I know that's all they made, but I wouldn't be surprised to find something other than a printer interface in my collection that they made. > It probably won't help you any, but I'm pretty sure that there was one > of those boards in one of the Apples that I gave away a year ago, and > there is probably documentation for it in the stuff that Sellam got > from me. (Yes, I understand your workshop being crowded. I recently > had to give up 2000 sq ft of storage, and had to get rid of lots of > stuff, even magazines and some books.) I have the documentation for the card (somewhere :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 23 14:29:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: Message-ID: <002701c113ad$c1117020$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's a little hard to guess what sort of interface would have been used to effect a HDC<=>Host-Adapter interface with 26 conductors, though SCSI/SASI is a possibility, since there does exist a fairly widely used 25-conductor interface to that one. It wasn't popular back in the Apple-][ days, though. If it's intended for internal use only, however, i.e. if there's a box this board goes in, with the drive and PSU, and a mount for the board on top or bottom of the drive, or some such, then it's possible that the 26-conductor cable is intended for use inside the box only and there's some other interface cable configuration outside the box. Also, it's worth considering that the Apple-][ didn't have a lot of height to support a 50-conductor, or even 40-conductor cable connector. Perhaps it's another Apple-ism, forced on the designers by the shape of the box. I found on GOOGLE that there was once a KONAN HDD Kit for the Apple, ( see http://download.franklin.com/cgi-bin/franklin/ebookman_free_preview?price10 ). This might be a clue. I found mention of a"$3,000 price for the Konan 5M External ST506 Apple Hard Drive Kit in 1979 " that supports this notion. That same GOOGLE search produced a reference to a SCSI spec of which this table is a part ... http://dan.emsphone.com/SCSI2/Docs/FTables/s2tabE.1.html ... and this might also be of interest ... http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1998-04/0198.html A little more digging (I spent about 2 minutes on this) might turn up something. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:29 PM Subject: Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > > > > I don't know anything about these boards that you don't, but since the name is > > hard to read, do you suppose that that "RONAN" board could be from KONAN? They > > I am almost sure you're right. The label is in the silkscreen along one > edge of the board, and the top half was cut off when the board was > trimmed. KONAN would fit the parts of the letters I have. > > > made disk controllers. Is there enough stuff to suggest it's a disk controller, > > e.g. PLL components? > > I am almost sure it is a disk contorller. As I said, it's not an Apple ][ > card -- perhaps I should also have said that it doesn't fit a backplane > at all. The external connectors are a 26 pin header for the host > interface (I think), a 34 pin + 2 * 20 pin headers (ST506 hard disk would > look likely), and a power connector, like those found on disk drives. No > card edges. I think this one is a hard disk controller that possibly > links to one of the Apple ][ cards as its host adapter. > > -tony > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp399.monmouth.com Mon Jul 23 14:46:49 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp399.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: <15196.26119.544467.646082@phaduka.neurotica.com> from Dave McGuire at "Jul 23, 2001 01:59:35 pm" Message-ID: <200107231946.f6NJknj12011@bg-tc-ppp399.monmouth.com> > On July 23, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > As annoying as "*RARE*" has become on eBay, I've seen exactly ONE of > > > those front panels...and I've been actively hacking pdp8s for nearly > > > twenty years. YMMV. > > > > An interesting thing...That front panel is very similar to that of the > pdp11/34 KY11-LB panel. The KY11-LB is controlled by an i8008 > processor. I wonder if the 8/a programmer's panel uses an i8008 as > well. Also, the pdp11/60 has a similar front panel. Anyone know? I > had a pdp11/60 once, but never dug into the panel. The 8a at least had separate instruction data and bus address leds. As far as the 11/60 at Pennington... must've been after I left DEC's Field Service in Princeton... or I would've probably gotten sent there. I used to go to Mobil in Pennington a lot. > > -Dave McGuire Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 23 15:08:39 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: Re: PDP8a popped up for auction (Bill Pechter) References: <15196.26119.544467.646082@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200107231946.f6NJknj12011@bg-tc-ppp399.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <15196.33863.144932.165209@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 23, Bill Pechter wrote: > The 8a at least had separate instruction data and bus address leds. Yeah. > As far as the 11/60 at Pennington... must've been after I left DEC's > Field Service in Princeton... or I would've probably gotten sent there. > I used to go to Mobil in Pennington a lot. Oh DEC would never have been called on this system...My friend and I picked up the pdp11/60 when it was decommissioned from Beaver College; got it for a song...and very *unofficially* (hey, I was 16) sold it to Pennington and did the installation over a weekend. We got the deal because my friend had been a student there. -Dave McGuire From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jul 23 15:26:17 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (geoffr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Latest Haul: TRS-80/Apple/Commodore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Network III controllers allow diskless model III/IV's to interface to a master model III or IV with a HardDisk or floppy disk to load and save files to... On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Hello all, > > On Saturday, I took a pleasant road trip to Coventry, RI (about 1.25 hours > South of me) to a school that was closing down to get some old computers. I > knew they had some interesting stuff, but had no idea what awaited.... > > None of this is rare (as far as I know) or anything, but it was a nice find > for me... Also, some more stuff is there, but I will not make it down for > another trip before they close on 07/31. I will post more information in a > separate message. > > The haul was: > > - 1 Apple IIc+ with external 5.25" floppy drive > - 1 Apple IIc composite monitor (the small green one on a stand) > - 1 Laser 128EX, with monitor, and external 5.25" and 3.5" drives > - 1 Apple color composite monitor > - Many disks of Apple II software, including DOS 3.3 and ProDOS disks, and > the "Introducing the IIc" series of disks > - Apple Assembly Language book by Don Lancaster (forgot the name) > - Apple IIe SAMS Photofacts > - Applesoft manuals > > - 2 TRS-80 Model 4P (in nice shape, and working condition!) > - 7 TRS-80s, mixture of Model III and 4, some with no floppies, some with 1 > 5.25" and some with 2 5.25". Varying amounts of RAM. All appear to be in > working condition, though not great cosmetically > - 2 TRS-80 Network 3 Controllers (NO clue what these are... Anybody?) > - One device (I forget the name), with a "TRS-80" in the name, that has 16 > connectors on the back, 16 LEDs on the front, and a rotary dial on the front > to select one of the 16 inputs. NO clue what it does... I'll get the > details and post later. > - MANY TRS-80 disks, including some original boot disks, SCRIPSIT originals, > and others. > - Some Nice condition TRS-80 manuals > > - 13 Commodore 64 "breadbox" computers, many with power supplies and TV > switches > - 2 MSD "Super Disk" units (one w/ broken latch on one of the drives) > - 2 VIC-20s in original boxes (one with a brown computer cover in the box) > - Many original C64 and VIC-20 Educational Software disks > - C64 and VIC-20 manuals, Programmer's reference guides, books, etc. > > Some of this stuff will not be staying with me. I rescued it to keep it > from the dumpster. I also told the principal that I would try to sell it, > and any monies would go to the school (my incentive for doing it is the > stuff I keep, plus I actually think this is fun!). I will post a separate > list of available stuff, and anything that doesn't sell will go to eBay.... > But I'll give you all first cut at it... The format will be sealed bids, > accepted for some number of days, with the stuff going to high bidder. > > Rich B. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 23 15:19:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 23, 1 11:03:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2545 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/4b8bf057/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 23 15:21:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: PDP8a popped up for auction In-Reply-To: <200107231946.f6NJknj12011@bg-tc-ppp399.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 23, 1 03:46:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 546 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/6fd81b1f/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 16:04:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Latest Haul: TRS-80/Apple/Commodore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The Network III controllers allow diskless model III/IV's to interface to >a master model III or IV with a HardDisk or floppy disk to load and save >files to... My high school had a network of about 16 diskless 16k Model III's connected to a disk-based 48k Model III in this manner. It was a pretty interesting set up. The instructor was able to download a program from the main III to all or one of the other III's. The 16k III's also had cassette recorders at each workstation for saving BASIC programs written in the class. I wouldn't mind coming up with one of those controllers myself. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spc at conman.org Mon Jul 23 16:08:13 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Test In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513B5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Jul 23, 2001 12:16:56 PM Message-ID: <200107232108.RAA16545@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Douglas Quebbeman once stated: > > Just testing, hoping that CodeRed didn't silence everyone... Nope. But I did see some affected boxes try to get into my webserver (running on 10yo hardware BTW 8-). Not that they did (since I don't run Microsoft IIS). -spc (Perhaps people were busy out and about collecting systems ... ) From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1175.monmouth.com Mon Jul 23 16:44:25 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1175.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: code red In-Reply-To: <200107232108.RAA16545@conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at "Jul 23, 2001 05:08:13 pm" Message-ID: <200107232144.f6NLiP712484@bg-tc-ppp1175.monmouth.com> > It was thus said that the Great Douglas Quebbeman once stated: > > > > Just testing, hoping that CodeRed didn't silence everyone... > > Nope. But I did see some affected boxes try to get into my webserver > (running on 10yo hardware BTW 8-). Not that they did (since I don't run > Microsoft IIS). > > -spc (Perhaps people were busy out and about collecting systems ... ) Here's the logs from my file... notice the attempt at the old buffer overflow stack smash. Didn't work here. FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #0: Sat Jul 21 00:45:37 EDT 2001 They got stuff hacked @ Southern New England Telephone..., Cap Gemini in France, MediaOne... Bill log files... [Thu Jul 19 19:26:01 2001] [error] [client 165.247.154.65] File does not exist: /usr/local/www/data/default.ida 221.191.252.64.snet.net - - [19/Jul/2001:15:09:17 -0400] "GET /default.ida?NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u9090%u8190%u00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u53ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0" 404 205 "-" "-" pc21.224.3.194.capgemini.fr - - [19/Jul/2001:15:16:21 -0400] "GET /default.ida?NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u9090%u8190%u00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u53ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0" 404 205 "-" "-" we-66-74-140-152.we.mediaone.net - - [19/Jul/2001:16:21:36 -0400] "GET /default.ida?NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u6858%ucbd3%u7801%u9090%u9090%u8190%u00c3%u0003%u8b00%u531b%u53ff%u0078%u0000%u00=a HTTP/1.0" 404 205 "-" "-" --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 23 16:31:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Sellam, you were my best hope for identifying these boards. If you've > not seen them, I guess nobody will know them :-) :) > > > Memsoft TC2E0260. This board looks hand-soldered, and some components are > > > missing. It's got a 6850 (ACIA), MC3486, MC3487 (Buffers), and TTL glue > > > on it. And space for a 2716 EPROM. > > If I had to guess, I'd think this one was possibly some kind of 'network' > interface. A slow-speed network using asynchronous data transmission. > Does that ring any bells with anyone? Too bad it doesn't have the EPROM so that you could pop it into one of your Apples and peek at it's ROM code. You might try posting a query about in on comp.sys.apple2 and see if anyone bites. > > > Advanced Text Systems P.001. Contains a 6520 (PIA), 2 off 7416 (buffers). > > > There's a DB25 connector on the end of a short length of ribbon cable. > > >From the name (Advanced _Text_ Systems), I wondered if this was the > interface for a daisywheel printer or something similar? It's possible. Perhaps it's a TTY en/decoder to allow deaf persons to use their Apple as a teletype? > > I've got a couple EPROM programmer boards, but I don't know if I have > > either of these. I know with one of them I got the software. > > > > > ICE Apple Cold Boot Adapter. Contains 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL glue, and a 26 > > > pin header > > > > > > ICE Multiplexor (sic) Host Adapter. 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL, 20 pin header > > > > Interesting. Again, never heard of them. They sound like some sort of > > terminal server system, maybe allowing an Apple to be shared? Naw, that's > > silly. > > My guess is that these boards are to allow several Apples to share > something else. Maybe a hard disk. There were systems that allowed many computers to be connected to one so that a teacher could do a lesson on the main computer while the students watched along on the slaves. Something like that. > I wonder if the 'Cold Boot Adapter' links to that KONAN card and adds > a hard disk to the Apple. The Cold Boot part meaning the Apple can > boot from the hard disk without needed a boot floppy. I am probably > wildly off, though I was thinking something similar actually. > > > Apple PC Link Interface. Contains an EPROM, M58725, TTL glue and > > > buffers. Also a 20 pin header. > > > > Sweet. Does what it says, let's you link an Apple to a PC. Who is the > > What does it use on the PC side? It clearly is some kind of TTL level > interface. Do I need a special PC card taht I've not got (or at least not > found yet?) Hmmm, good question. Now that the drugs from the visit to the dentist have worn off, the PC Transporter allowed you to hook PC drives to an Apple ][ and read/write PC disks. It didn't actually have a connection to the PC itself. I have a box made by Rana that allows an Apple ][ to run PC programs. The box presumably has a separate computer with an 8088 CPU and two double-density disk drives. Maybe this is the interface card for such a box? I am headed off to my storage place to pay the monthly dues, so I'll take a few moments to check it out and see what the interface card is like for that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 23 16:32:32 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Latest Haul: TRS-80/Apple/Commodore tie in to Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >The Network III controllers allow diskless model III/IV's to interface to > >a master model III or IV with a HardDisk or floppy disk to load and save > >files to... > > My high school had a network of about 16 diskless 16k Model > III's connected to a disk-based 48k Model III in this manner. It was > a pretty interesting set up. The instructor was able to download a > program from the main III to all or one of the other III's. The 16k > III's also had cassette recorders at each workstation for saving > BASIC programs written in the class. I wouldn't mind coming up with > one of those controllers myself. Hey Tony, this is what I was thinking that pair of Apple ][ cards you have did :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 23 17:17:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: H. H. Tiger Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5860 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/5189a85f/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Mon Jul 23 17:38:14 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Old Dec manuals. remote post References: Message-ID: <002e01c113c8$29a2b300$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Sharon Carnes wrote on news:comp.sys.dec > I have a number of PDP 11/70, VAX 11/780, RP06, TU77, TE16, etc... > maintenance manuals. Also some VAX/VMS training stuff. Can anyone use > this stuff?? Free...you pay shippping. > > Contact me at cowgrrrl@wwa.com. > > Sharon Carnes From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 23 17:50:50 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: available.... Message-ID: <006801c113c9$f0fd2240$cb759a8d@ajp166> Framingham MA, pick up also possible in the Hudson NH area as I work there. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Ernest To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:29 AM Subject: RE: available.... >...er, where are you at? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of ajp166 >> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 12:23 PM >> To: Classic Computers >> Subject: available.... >> >> >> I've decided to thin the herd some so the following is available >> for best offer or trade. >> >> * Visual 1050 system (x2) complete, hard disks, floppies, docs >> and tech manuals. Must pick up as it's two systems and >> fairly large/heavy with docs and all. Both work one prettier than >> the other, many spares. >> >> * S100 backplane for rackmount use. No PS. Nice decent bus. >> Pickup only, heavy and fairly large. >> >> As to trade material: Single board computers, ham gear, >> non computer test gear are of interest. >> >> Allison >> From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jul 23 17:55:02 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: code red In-Reply-To: <200107232144.f6NLiP712484@bg-tc-ppp1175.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Jul 23, 1 05:44:25 pm" Message-ID: <200107232255.PAA10964@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Didn't work here. FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE #0: Sat Jul 21 00:45:37 EDT 2001 Didn't work here either (AIX on ANS) but they sure tried: stockholm:/tmp/% grep default.ida /usr/local/htdocs/access.log | wc -l 18 -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Everything is permissible, but not everything is expedient. -- 1 Cor 6:12 -- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 23 17:53:33 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Available: 4 ISA or MCA swappable DCA ethernet cards Message-ID: I have dug out 4 identical NICs - made by DCA and they are flipover style, having an 8 bit ISA connector on one side and microchannel on the other. They only have the ISA backplate and they aren't tested. No docs or software but anyone familiar with them will probably want them. They should be in working order as they came from machines that came right off the network to the pallet lot sale except that the hard drives were wiped (hence no drivers). They are 10baseT and 10base2 having an RJ45 and BNC on the end. I want $5 for ALL FOUR plus whatever applicable shipping would be. I would prefer to keep this to the US and Canada but anyone over the big pond is welcome to inquire and we'll see what shipping might be and if it's worth it. Of course all monies would have to be paid in US funds. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/e75cd638/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 23 17:58:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 23, 1 02:31:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/778ccc23/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 23 18:28:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: HP98035 Clock Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1681 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010724/ce390faf/attachment.ksh From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 23 19:30:50 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph Message-ID: <20010723193050.M10460@mrbill.net> Anybody know where I can find a Hayes Chronograph? I ran across my Smartmodem 300 (in original box!) in the garage the other day, and it showed the "companion" clock in a "stack" on the back of the box.. I"ve always wanted to find one.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon Jul 23 19:36:43 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: <010723203643.2a404093@trailing-edge.com> > What makes these Kodak CD-Rs so much better than other CD-R media? Five things: 1. Made by a known manufacturer using a well-tested process. 2. Manufacturer has archival information available. 3. Uses phthalocyanine dye, rather than the much less stable cyanine. 4. Gold reflective layer. Some here have had very bad experiences with aluminum and/or silver reflective area in videodiscs and CD's. 5. Nicely protected top surface. The Kodak "Silver Plus" Ultras have all the above except for #4, so they're not so bad. And even on point #4, I do think Eastman Kodak does have at least a little experience with silver compounds after, what, 100+ years in the photographic industry? And there are other makers of Gold media - Mitsui is a very big name, though availability is less than ideal, and Ricoh seems to be in the business as well. All that said, it is frustrating to see what is widely regarded as one of the most archival media available - made by a huge company with a long history in materials science and information storage - bite the dust in mass availability because it costs a few more cents than the el-cheapo stuff. Tim. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 19:53:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <010723203643.2a404093@trailing-edge.com> References: <010723203643.2a404093@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >All that said, it is frustrating to see what is widely regarded as one of >the most archival media available - made by a huge company with a long history >in materials science and information storage - bite the dust in mass >availability because it costs a few more cents than the el-cheapo stuff. One of the major heartburns I have with CD-R media is that it's quite difficult to tell the good from the bad. It's nearly impossible to tell just by looking at the packaging what combination of dye and reflective layer you're getting. Even the newer 'gold' disks don't all measure up the same. I tend to buy them in very small amounts so that I don't get burned too badly if they turn out to be lemons. CompUSA used to sell some nice dark blue dye disks under their name but then I made the mistake of buying one of their bulk packs which turned out to use the light green dye and were really crappy. I'd gladly pay the additional money if I had a concise guide as to just which were the high quality media. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon Jul 23 20:14:56 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: <010723211456.2a404093@trailing-edge.com> > One of the major heartburns I have with CD-R media is that >it's quite difficult to tell the good from the bad. That was my point #1: Buy a product that you know with a known distribution path from the manufacturer. That's why I like Kodak over Mitsui. (Not that it'd be impossible to find a list of official Mitsui dealers, but Kodak has a bunch of old-school distributors who work just fine for me. And there have been rumors - with little to nothing to back them up - that many of the Mitsui-branded disks being sold in the US now were actually made in one of the lower-tier plants in Taiwan.) > disks don't all measure up the same. I tend to buy them in very > small amounts so that I don't get burned too badly if they turn out > to be lemons. OTOH I buy in quantities of 500-1000 every few months, and I don't want to take the risk with that amount of money that I'm buying junk. Sometimes I do buy a spindle of the cheap junk just to see who made it that week. The Imation stuff (yes, Imation, the company that used to be the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing company that made top-name media for years) was crappy CMC Magnetics junk according to the ATIP code the week I bought it, and I've not touched their branded CD-R's since. The IBM no-names (hey, you ought to tell that I've got high standards when I call IBM a risky also-ran!) turned out to be Ricoh phthalocyanine disks, so sometimes the cheap junk might not be all that bad. > CompUSA used to sell some nice dark blue dye disks >under their name but then I made the mistake of buying one of their >bulk packs which turned out to use the light green dye and were >really crappy. I'd gladly pay the additional money if I had a >concise guide as to just which were the high quality media. Lose the CompUSA junk. They do light up nicely in the Microwave, though :-). Tim. From terryc at woa.com.au Mon Jul 23 20:29:55 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Unisys Personal Workstation 2 Stuf & DSDD 5.25" floppies Message-ID: <3B5CCF93.29FFD7FA@woa.com.au> Hi folks I have two sets of manuals and one set of software (1 x 5.25" & 1 x 3.5" floppies) for Unisys Personal Workstation2. circa 1990. It is available for postage/shipping to whomever wants it. Weight is 2.6Kg, say 3Kg packed for shipping, from Campbelltow, NSW, Australia, 2560. Dumpster Date is Wed 1st August if no interest shown. Also available are; 20 boxes of 10 Double sided, double density 48tpi 5.25" floppies. DOS brand(?) 18 of these are un opened, 2 opened and 3 other packs. Cost is shipping, say 300grams/box packed for shipping. Dumpster date is Wed 1st August. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 23 20:39:56 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <010723211456.2a404093@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Jul 23, 2001 09:14:56 PM Message-ID: <200107240139.f6O1duF02689@shell1.aracnet.com> > OTOH I buy in quantities of 500-1000 every few months, and I don't > want to take the risk with that amount of money that I'm buying junk. > > Sometimes I do buy a spindle of the cheap junk just to see who made > it that week. The Imation stuff (yes, Imation, the company that used So which brands do you recommend? Obviously Kodak Gold is pretty much out unfortunatly. What are your feelings on Verbatium Blue's (which is what I use a lot)? Zane From louiss at gate.net Mon Jul 23 20:52:00 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107240151.VAA07219@smtp6.mindspring.com> On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:58:49 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: #> > I wonder if the 'Cold Boot Adapter' links to that KONAN card and adds #> > a hard disk to the Apple. The Cold Boot part meaning the Apple can #> > boot from the hard disk without needed a boot floppy. I am probably #> > wildly off, though #> #> I was thinking something similar actually. # #In which case I should start looking at the EPROMs on these boards). This seems unlikely. Apple IIs never needed a boot floppy, they just booted from the first recognizable disk controller, starting at slot 7 and working down. In the absence of a recognizable controller, they went into Basic. If you wanted to change the boot drive, you just changed the order of the cards. It was also possible to select a boot drive with a selector program, or even by issuing a command from Basic. But anything is possible, I suppose. Louis From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jul 23 14:36:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: Message-ID: <000101c113e3$ac38ebc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> comments inline. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Memsoft TC2E0260. This board looks hand-soldered, and some components are > > missing. It's got a 6850 (ACIA), MC3486, MC3487 (Buffers), and TTL glue > > on it. And space for a 2716 EPROM. > My guess is that this is a serial interface intended for RS423 or RS422 use, i.e. longer distances. It's possible the 2716 was intended to support some customed protocol, but the 6850 is essentially a UART, (no synchronous capability) and somewhat rate limited. The 3486/87 are differential drivers for RS422/423. One wouldn't have used the diff drivers unless one needed to have the signal travel some considerable distance. I'd guess distance is the motivation for using the diff drivers together with the 6850, since the ACIA is rate-limited. > > > > > Advanced Text Systems P.001. Contains a 6520 (PIA), 2 off 7416 (buffers). > > There's a DB25 connector on the end of a short length of ribbon cable. > > No clue...I have hundreds of Apple ][ boards and have never heard of > these (at least according to current memory). > > > Mountain Computers ROMwriter. Clearly an EPROM programmer, with a 24 pin > > ZIF socket. I found 2 of these boards. > > > > Prog RWP. Another EPROM Programmer, this one has a 28 pin ZIF socket. > > Also an 8255 (Parallel chip), EPROM, PSU components (to get the Vpp line, > > I guess). > > I've got a couple EPROM programmer boards, but I don't know if I have > either of these. I know with one of them I got the software. > > > ICE Apple Cold Boot Adapter. Contains 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL glue, and a 26 > > pin header > > > > ICE Multiplexor (sic) Host Adapter. 6116 RAM, EPROM, TTL, 20 pin header > > Interesting. Again, never heard of them. They sound like some sort of > terminal server system, maybe allowing an Apple to be shared? Naw, that's > silly. > > > Ronan Corp. I can't find a number on this board, and the name is > > almost unreadeable. This is not an Apple ][ card, but it was with the > > above 2 boards and may have something to do with them. It contains a > > Z80, EPROM, 1K RAM (2*2114), SCX6225 (ASIC/gate array? It's in a PLCC > > package). There's a 26 pin header (host?) and a 34 pin + 2*20 pin > > headers (ST506 hard disk??). There's also a disk-drive like power > > connector. > > No clue. > > > Orange Micro Buffered Grappler+. This looks to be a printer > > interface/buffer and contains 64K DRAM, EPROM, Microcontroller, TTL > > glue, and has a 26 pin header (to the printer?) > > A very nice buffered parallel printer interface. Made life MUCH nicer > when you went to print a long multiple page document and didn't have to > wait for the print to end before you could use your computer again. > > > Apple Synch Printer Interface Card. I think this is the Silentype interface. > > Probably. > > > Apple PC Link Interface. Contains an EPROM, M58725, TTL glue and > > buffers. Also a 20 pin header. > > Sweet. Does what it says, let's you link an Apple to a PC. Who is the > manufacturer on this? The only card of this type I know of was the PC > Transporter by Applied Engineering (still looking for one of those BTW :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 23 21:06:01 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Hmmm, good question. Now that the drugs from the visit to the dentist > > have worn off, the PC Transporter allowed you to hook PC drives to an > > Apple ][ and read/write PC disks. It didn't actually have a connection to > > the PC itself. > I thought it might be something like that, but there's no obvious disk > controller chip on the board. Of course a 20 pin header could conceivably > link to an Apple Disk ][, but I doubt it. Years ago, an associate configured a Quark for external terminal. (Quark was a tiny 80x86 PC compatible computer like the Ampro little board or PMC that could fit comfortably into a drive case along with a half height drive) We joked about using an Apple as the terminal. Then we could sell the machine as a "drive" for Apple that would let it run PC software, since many Apple users wouldn't know or understand that the Apple was only acting as the terminal, and that the computer was in the drive case. Our ethics stopped us from doing that kind of marketing. But others were not so inhibited. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Jul 23 21:06:35 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: "30-30" (was Re: Winchester Technology) In-Reply-To: <20010721175915.B9105@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > I read it again today, and might have been slightly mistaken as to the > "3030" definition, although there was a "3330". Here's what the book says: OK, no problem. During the late 1960s and 1970s, IBM had a numbering system they *mostly* used - 23xx series were disks and drums in the whole 2xxx series of S/360 equipment*, and the 33xx series were the same, just "bumped up" 1000 when the S/370s came out. For some reason, the 33xx series remained valid until the 1990s (many 3390s are still in service, even some 3380s). *For example, 20xx and 21xx are Processors, 22xx are terminals, 23xx are disks, 24xx are tapes, 25xx are card machines, 26xx are paper tape machines (few used), 27xx are communications things, 28xx are control units, and 29xx are RPQs (custom units). For some reason, printers did not generally follow this rule. > All in all, its a DAMN good book, and one of my favorite reads. I > found the earlier book to be not as "interesting", but at least I got > a copy of it ("IBM's Early Computers") off eBay after 3 years of looking.. I paid a good buck for mine new, so you can guess how I feel about the book. Anyway, it can be had cheaper with some looking on bookfinder. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 23 20:28:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <20010723193050.M10460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know where I can find a Hayes Chronograph? I ran across my > Smartmodem 300 (in original box!) in the garage the other day, and it > showed the "companion" clock in a "stack" on the back of the box.. > I"ve always wanted to find one.. I've only ever come across one, at a thrift store, and now it's part of my collection. Someone brought this subject up last year or so. They are fairly rare. Good luck! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 23 20:32:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:05:59 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <200107240151.VAA07219@smtp6.mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Louis Schulman wrote: > #> > I wonder if the 'Cold Boot Adapter' links to that KONAN card and > adds > #> > a hard disk to the Apple. The Cold Boot part meaning the Apple can > #> > boot from the hard disk without needed a boot floppy. I am > probably > #> > wildly off, though > #> > #> I was thinking something similar actually. > # > #In which case I should start looking at the EPROMs on these boards). > > This seems unlikely. Apple IIs never needed a boot floppy, they just > booted from the first recognizable disk controller, starting at slot 7 > and working down. In the absence of a recognizable controller, they > went into Basic. If you wanted to change the boot drive, you just > changed the order of the cards. It was also possible to select a boot > drive with a selector program, or even by issuing a command from Basic. > But anything is possible, I suppose. It's possible there were hard drives that required a boot disk, rather than booting off the drive itself. I've seen dumber things :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 23 21:35:46 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Available: 4 ISA or MCA swappable DCA ethernet cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The cards have been spoken for. If it falls through (I doubt it) I'll repost later. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 5:54 PM To: Classic computers message group Subject: Available: 4 ISA or MCA swappable DCA ethernet cards I have dug out 4 identical NICs - made by DCA and they are flipover style, having an 8 bit ISA connector on one side and microchannel on the other. They only have the ISA backplate and they aren't tested. No docs or software but anyone familiar with them will probably want them. They should be in working order as they came from machines that came right off the network to the pallet lot sale except that the hard drives were wiped (hence no drivers). They are 10baseT and 10base2 having an RJ45 and BNC on the end. I want $5 for ALL FOUR plus whatever applicable shipping would be. I would prefer to keep this to the US and Canada but anyone over the big pond is welcome to inquire and we'll see what shipping might be and if it's worth it. Of course all monies would have to be paid in US funds. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010723/07100426/attachment.html From vcf at siconic.com Mon Jul 23 20:41:47 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Someone please give a ride to Max Eskin to VCF East Message-ID: I'm forwarding this along for Max Eskin. I hope someone can give this poor kid a ride. I would really like him to make VCF East. I guess he's around Boston. E-mail him at to figure something out. Thanks! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Max Eskin I realized that I have no way of getting to the VCF. There's no way in hell that my parents will let me drive there, and I don't want to ask my dad to drive me either. It's about an hour away from my house. So could you perhaps forward me some kind of list of people living in the boston area whom I could contact and ask for rides? I e-mailed Allison Parent, but she hasn't responded. I don't remember who else from classiccmp lives around here. Thanks, Max Eskin -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 21:50:18 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010724025018.20672.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > Anybody know where I can find a Hayes Chronograph? I ran across my > > Smartmodem 300 (in original box!) in the garage the other day, and it > > showed the "companion" clock in a "stack" on the back of the box.. > > I"ve always wanted to find one.. > > I've only ever come across one, at a thrift store, and now it's part of my > collection. Someone brought this subject up last year or so. They are > fairly rare. Good luck! Does anyone have the AT protocol spec for it? I've always been interested in the concept of a timekeeper that I could read/set from machines that were not ethernet/NTP-capable. I've even sat around dreaming up ways to build a wall clock that was settable and readable either via IR or some serial connection so I'd have a chance of keeping things sync'ed around here. If I ever did get an RS-232-based timekeeper, I'd think about throwing it on a terminal server so everybody else on there could get to it. I've never seen one, but I'd rather not re-invent the wheel. Just knowing the command set is a starting point for even a PIC-based modern replica. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Mon Jul 23 21:45:54 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think the Hayes Chronograph is the holy grail of early Hayes products. ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > Anybody know where I can find a Hayes Chronograph? I ran across my > > Smartmodem 300 (in original box!) in the garage the other day, and it > > showed the "companion" clock in a "stack" on the back of the box.. > > I"ve always wanted to find one.. > > I've only ever come across one, at a thrift store, and now it's part of my > collection. Someone brought this subject up last year or so. They are > fairly rare. Good luck! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 23 23:05:35 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107240404.VAA06969@mail.telisphere.com> On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:28:51 -0700 (PDT), Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > >> Anybody know where I can find a Hayes Chronograph? I ran across my >> Smartmodem 300 (in original box!) in the garage the other day, and >>it >> showed the "companion" clock in a "stack" on the back of the box.. >> I"ve always wanted to find one.. > >I've only ever come across one, at a thrift store, and now it's part >of my >collection. Someone brought this subject up last year or so. They >are >fairly rare. Good luck! Yep. I got it from him too. *Huge Grin* g. (waves to Jeff) -- http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 23 23:09:02 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <20010724025018.20672.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107240407.VAA07408@mail.telisphere.com> > >I've never seen one, but I'd rather not re-invent the wheel. Just >knowing >the command set is a starting point for even a PIC-based modern >replica. ATDT Display Time ATDD Display Date ATRT Read Time ATRD Read Date ATLS set linefeed, otherwise only CR is sent at the end of a line ATLC clear linefeed atVTx set time separator (default is ':') ATVDx set date separator (default is '/') ATSThhmm00P set time to HH:MM:00:PM ATSThhmm00A set time to HH:MM:00:AM ATSDyymmdd set date ATSWn set weekday to n (0=monday, etc) ATAShhmmA set alarm to HH:MM AM ATAShhmmP set alarm to HH:MM PM ATAShhmm set alarm to hh:mm in 24 hour mode g. -- http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From hansp at aconit.org Mon Jul 23 23:07:51 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph References: <20010724025018.20672.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B5CF497.7ABC18C8@aconit.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Does anyone have the AT protocol spec for it? I've always been interested > in the concept of a timekeeper that I could read/set from machines that > were not ethernet/NTP-capable. I've even sat around dreaming up ways to > build a wall clock that was settable and readable either via IR or some > serial connection so I'd have a chance of keeping things sync'ed around here. > If I ever did get an RS-232-based timekeeper, I'd think about throwing it > on a terminal server so everybody else on there could get to it. > > I've never seen one, but I'd rather not re-invent the wheel. Just knowing > the command set is a starting point for even a PIC-based modern replica. A quck Google search threw up 195 hits includng this site : http://incolor.inebraska.com/bill_r/hayes_stack_chronograph.htm which claims to include a scanned copy of the owners manual. I presume the command set would be included there .... Simply amazing what you can find on the web ;-) -- HBP From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon Jul 23 23:16:37 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: New Toy - Poly 88 Message-ID: <3B5CB055.16037.1F3FED@localhost> Received a new system today, a partially built Poly-88. Came with the mainboard and case, an assembled 8080A CPU board and an unassembled video interface and all the parts to finish it all up. Came with cassette BASIC, Monitor and Assembler and doc too. Great shape! It will be interesting because it will be the first time I've actually assembled a system from the ground up. Need to find some other boards, memory and such still. Now to clear space to work on it. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 24 00:10:41 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Computer recycling info. Message-ID: Sorry to mention such an unpleasant subject as computer recycling, but here's some more information about what some politicians and businesses, etc. are up to: http://www.ec-central.org/skinny/022201.htm Denver Post: "Bill Encourages Computer Recycling;" By Andy Vuong It may also provide some leads for collecting and preserving equipment. I hope this helps some with some good finds. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jimoaks at one.net Tue Jul 24 00:32:32 2001 From: jimoaks at one.net (Jim Oaks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: EOM Clearance (aka free stuff in Indiana) In-Reply-To: <7b.17eb32d3.288dc316@aol.com> Message-ID: <002601c11402$0ae42ae0$770bfea9@billy> Mike do you have any commodore,TI, related items? Thanks Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mzthompson@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 2:13 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: EOM Clearance (aka free stuff in Indiana) EOM Clearance (aka free stuff in Indiana) Having cleared most of the machines out of my 10x20 rental storage, I have decided to clear it all out and vacate it by the end of the month. Following is a list of what's available, some of it in storage, some here at home. All this is available for free to those that come pick it up. I'm located a few miles south of Terre Haute, Indiana. FREE, FOR PICKUP ONLY: ------------------------------------------------------------ DEC: VAXstation 2000's - There are six of these, one is a recent one and untested. The other five have been test fired using a VR260 and all found to work and complete the self-test OK. None of these machines have a disk drive. Have an LK201 keyboard, hockey puck mouse and the BC18P combination video/kb/mouse cable for most of these machines. MicroVAX 2000 - There is one of these, completely diassembled and in a box. Also have a spare MS400 2mb board and this is unused still in original box. This goes in the 2000. Also have two TK50Z-FA tape boxes. VT220 - Have 4, none have been tested. Includes LK201 kb. VT320 - Have 1, has not been tested. Includes LK201 kb. DS200 Terminal Server - 3 ea DELNI - around 6 ea On the DS200's & DELNI's, don't forget to ask about MMJ and AUI cables, I am sure I can include a cable or two. ------------------------------------------------------------ VME: Motorola Model VME/10 System Contains: 1 ea MVME400 board 1 ea MVME201 boards Micropolis 1304 43mb hard drive, untested Also have a monitor, but no video cable. Believe the keyboard is around here somewhere. Also have a machine around here that is a plain white case with a VME motherboard and several cards. Beyond that I have forgotten and it is too dang hot right now to go pop the hood on it. If you are interested, I will see what I can do to get more info when it cools in the evening. Jupiter Technologies - There used to be a company in Massachusetts that made was commonly referred to a UGC (Universal Gateway Controller). It amounts to a box that can interface to various network protocols and convert them to other protocols using 'softblocks'. I have a few complete units and more spare boards than I can count. I rescued them due to the VME boards only to realize that each processor card contained a Jupiter proprietary 160 pin chip. I doubt what they would be as much use to the hobbyist aside from pulling the CPUs, SIMMs, and Eproms. I list them here in the event you come after some other VME stuff. These might then be of interest. ------------------------------------------------------------ IBM: Model 5182 Personal Computer Color Printer Parallel Interface, dot matrix 132 column This works, but needs a new ribbon ------------------------------------------------------------ Hewlett Packard: Model 2631G 132 column dot matrix printer This has a 24 pin connector, IIRC GPIB interface. Condition unknown. ------------------------------------------------------------ Intel: Have a couple IBM PC/XT's with 5 1/4 full height floppies and 10 mb HDs. No IBM kb's, video cards, or monitors though. Have been tested and do work. Have an IBM AT, IIRC this has been tested and works. Beyond that there is the usual Intel flotsam. Various boxes, 286, 386, and the like. ------------------------------------------------------------ Misc flotsam: Who knows what is here. There are some hard drives, tape drives, keyboards, mice, and the like. There is too much to list separately. If you come and pick up some of the stuff above, we will make a tour of the basement and see what turns up. ---------------------------------------- I feel like I have forgotten some stuff. So we'll start with this and go from here. Mike Thompson From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jul 24 00:41:07 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <200107240139.f6O1duF02689@shell1.aracnet.com>; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 06:39:56PM -0700 References: <010723211456.2a404093@trailing-edge.com> <200107240139.f6O1duF02689@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010724004107.Q10460@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 06:39:56PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > So which brands do you recommend? Obviously Kodak Gold is pretty much out > unfortunatly. What are your feelings on Verbatium Blue's (which is what I > use a lot)? Strangely, I have yet to make a coaster that *wasnt* my fault when using the generic CompUSA brand "black" CD-Rs.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jul 24 00:39:54 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <20010723193050.M10460@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >Anybody know where I can find a Hayes Chronograph? I ran across At least half the list is looking and not finding one of those. Not even eBay has turned one up. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jul 24 01:15:30 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Computer recycling info. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Sorry to mention such an unpleasant subject as computer recycling, but >here's some more information about what some politicians and >businesses, etc. are up to: > >http://www.ec-central.org/skinny/022201.htm Text of the bill http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107:1:./temp/~c107oLIhON:: Not that I figured out what is going on. From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 01:41:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <200107240407.VAA07408@mail.telisphere.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > ATDT Display Time > ATDD Display Date > ATRT Read Time > ATRD Read Date > ATLS set linefeed, otherwise only CR is sent at the end of a line > ATLC clear linefeed > atVTx set time separator (default is ':') > ATVDx set date separator (default is '/') > ATSThhmm00P set time to HH:MM:00:PM > ATSThhmm00A set time to HH:MM:00:AM > ATSDyymmdd set date > ATSWn set weekday to n (0=monday, etc) > ATAShhmmA set alarm to HH:MM AM > ATAShhmmP set alarm to HH:MM PM > > ATAShhmm set alarm to hh:mm in 24 hour mode I wonder if it's Y2K compliant? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jul 24 02:54:32 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: Message-ID: <3B5D29B8.C5C822E8@internet1.net> I have a Buffered Grappler Plus and a copy of the manual. I haven't used it yet, so I don't have any first hand knowledge on setup, but I could copy the copy of the manual and send it to anybody that might want it. One of these days I'm going to get my Apple stuff sorted out. I still need to set up my Imagewriter, for instance. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Yes, Orange Micro "Grappler" IS almost certainly a printer interface. > Orange Micro was heavily involved with printers and interfaces for them in > the 1980s. > > It probably won't help you any, but I'm pretty sure that there was one of > those boards in one of the Apples that I gave away a year ago, and there > is probably documentation for it in the stuff that Sellam got from me. > (Yes, I understand your workshop being crowded. I recently had to give up > 2000 sq ft of storage, and had to get rid of lots of stuff, even magazines > and some books.) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jul 24 06:29:13 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Someone please give a ride to Max Eskin to VCF East In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jul 23, 01 06:41:47 pm Message-ID: <200107241129.HAA08843@wordstock.com> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Max Eskin > > I realized that I have no way of getting to the VCF. There's no way in hell > that my parents will let me drive there, and I don't want to ask my dad to > drive me either. It's about an hour away from my house. So could you > perhaps forward me some kind of list of people living in the boston area > whom I could contact and ask for rides? I e-mailed Allison Parent, but > she hasn't responded. I don't remember who else from classiccmp lives > around here. > Thanks, > Max Eskin > Max, Where abouts are you located? I am in Waltham. I am planning to leave around 9:00 am and stay for the entire day. Cheers, Bryan Pope From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Jul 24 07:00:02 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Someone please give a ride to Max Eskin to VCF East In-Reply-To: <200107241129.HAA08843@wordstock.com> from "Bryan Pope" at Jul 24, 01 07:29:13 am Message-ID: <200107241200.IAA16613@wordstock.com> All, I forgot to change the header before sending this out... Sorry bout this.. Bryan (Using elm) > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Max Eskin > > > > I realized that I have no way of getting to the VCF. There's no way in hell > > that my parents will let me drive there, and I don't want to ask my dad to > > drive me either. It's about an hour away from my house. So could you > > perhaps forward me some kind of list of people living in the boston area > > whom I could contact and ask for rides? I e-mailed Allison Parent, but > > she hasn't responded. I don't remember who else from classiccmp lives > > around here. > > Thanks, > > Max Eskin > > > > Max, > > Where abouts are you located? I am in Waltham. I am planning to leave > around 9:00 am and stay for the entire day. > > Cheers, > > Bryan Pope > From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Jul 24 07:23:01 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Latest Haul: TRS-80/Apple/Commodore Message-ID: >The Network III controllers allow diskless model III/IV's to interface to >a master model III or IV with a HardDisk or floppy disk to load and save >files to... That makes sense, as a few of the IIIs that I took had no floppies. Also, I found a couple of disks last night (not original) that were labeled "Network Scripsit". There were also directions on how to start the host computer, then start up the slaves... Rich B. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 07:43:59 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010724124359.62101.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > ATSDyymmdd set date > > ATSWn set weekday to n (0=monday, etc) > > I wonder if it's Y2K compliant? :) I realize that was meant tongue-in-cheek, but since it does not appear to attempt to set the day of the week on its own, it might fail on the transition (not sure if it would rollover correctly, although it should), but it could probably still be used after. I still want one, as I'm sure several others here do, too. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jul 24 07:40:01 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066076@exc-reo1> > Sometimes I do buy a spindle of the cheap junk just to see who made > it that week. The Imation stuff (yes, Imation, the company that used > to be the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing company that > made top-name > media for years) was crappy CMC Magnetics junk according to > the ATIP code Can we define "junk" for the purposes of this discussion? Is it junk because: (a) you make more coasters than you would believe is reasonable (b) you find a higher failure rate when trying to read them two years later than you think is reasonable (c) you don't believe that it will last the twenty years (or whatever they claim) ? Given a CD-R (blank or already written), what tool(s) do you use to determine the characteristics on which you are judging it and what are "good" and "bad" things to look out for? Personally, I have only had one read-failure in several hundred burns. That's not counting a few coasters along the way - this was a partial read-failure some six months to a year later when I came to use the CD. I have no idea whether the data was ever written correctly (since EasyCD Creator - which came with the drive - does not seem to have a read-after-write check). Since then I have performed a comparison-against-source step after burning any CD. Fingers crossed, no further failures so far. Antonio From Ixpacman at aol.com Tue Jul 24 07:47:38 2001 From: Ixpacman at aol.com (Ixpacman@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: %20Need%20Sun%20Electric%20Corp%20product%20tech%20info. Message-ID: The Sun Tachometer transmitters that I have in My 1971 37'Egg harbor boat have a sticker on the transmitter claimin that they require a 1.35 volt mercury battery which appears to be the approximate size of a AA battery.The sun part no. is 1766-7.My transmitter model no is EB-9A.Maybe this is helpful to you .ixpacman@aol.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jul 24 08:52:40 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > ATSThhmm00P set time to HH:MM:00:PM > > ATSThhmm00A set time to HH:MM:00:AM > > ATSDyymmdd set date > > ATSWn set weekday to n (0=monday, etc) > > ATAShhmmA set alarm to HH:MM AM > > ATAShhmmP set alarm to HH:MM PM > > > > ATAShhmm set alarm to hh:mm in 24 hour mode > > I wonder if it's Y2K compliant? :) > I have no idea. I'm willing to bet there is a ROM in there somewhere that can be read-out, patched and a new one installed. :) g. From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 24 09:58:30 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks's message of "Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:50:18 -0700 (PDT)" References: <20010724025018.20672.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107241458.f6OEwup47011@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I've never seen one, but I'd rather not re-invent the wheel. Just knowing > the command set is a starting point for even a PIC-based modern replica. Not sure, but I think the real thing has an early PIC inside. If Eric Smith's reading maybe he can tell us, I think I got this bit by being present when he opened one up to see what made it tick (ha ha). -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 11:06:43 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <20010724124359.62101.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I realize that was meant tongue-in-cheek, but since it does not appear > to attempt to set the day of the week on its own, it might fail on the > transition (not sure if it would rollover correctly, although it > should), but it could probably still be used after. > > I still want one, as I'm sure several others here do, too. I bet with as much work as you described in setting up an infrared communications network to beam the time signal to machines around the room (cool idea BTW :) one could take an old Hayes 300/1200/2400 modem, dump the EPROM, hack the code to replace various AT commands with the Chronograph AT command set, add a clock/calendar chip to the board somewhere, and roll your own Chronograph. You'd still have to add the digital readout on the front, or maybe you can turn the status lights into a binary clock output? In the very least, it would make one killer exhibit for the VCF to show what someone can do in their copious free time to reconstruct computing's past :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 11:08:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066076@exc-reo1> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > Personally, I have only had one read-failure in several hundred burns. > That's not counting a few coasters along the way - this was a partial > read-failure some six months to a year later when I came to use the > CD. Wait ten or twenty years, and then make your assessment. That's what Tim is concerned with. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 11:25:57 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws Message-ID: I am pretty sure this show, which will undoubtedly be typical over-sensationalized Learning Channel tripe, is the one where I supplied many old computers for filming, including an Altair, Imsai, Apple ][, TRS-80, PET, etc. There may also be semi-sihouletted shots of me typing on a keyboard. It's set to air Wednesday (tomorrow) at 10pm on The Learning Channel. http://tlc.discovery.com/tuneins/hackers.html It features John Draper (a.k.a. Cap'n Crunch, a.k.a. freaky weirdo whom you should cross the street to avoid), Steve Wozniak, and Kevin Mitnick. Why Woz is included in this group is not entirely clear, but the producers of the show are British, so that could explain things :) It has a lot to do with the blue box of course, but Kevin Mitnick is a criminal thug, and Woz is just Woz. TLC used to be a great channel to actually LEARN stuff on. But I think I know enough about high-speed chases and asshole cops already. Can we move on to another subject, please? As great as it is, Junkyard Wars doesn't redeem the channel. All the cool stuff is on The History Channel these days :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 12:36:39 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010724173639.14121.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I bet with as much work as you described in setting up an infrared > communications network to beam the time signal to machines around the > room (cool idea BTW :) Thanks. > one could take an old Hayes 300/1200/2400 modem, > dump the EPROM, hack the code to replace various AT commands with the > Chronograph AT command set, add a clock/calendar chip to the board > somewhere, and roll your own Chronograph. You'd still have to add the > digital readout on the front I noticed from the picture from the cover of the manual that it is the same style as a 1200-baud modem, but taller (to accomodate the display). It looks about the same size as my Tecmar T-Disk case. I'd have to go look, but it depends on which style of extruded aluminum case they used if it could be expanded vertically. The width would be fixed by the size of the top and bottom plates, but it might be possible to fit side risers. In any case, I'm not sure where I'd get a compatible display. I also play with LCD (and VFD) displays with the LCDproc project (lcdproc.omnipotent.net) I have one 20x4 VFD and a couple 20x2 displays (so-called "Pole Displays" for cash registers - RS-232 and 6VAC to drive them). It wouldn't look like a Chronograph, but I could fit an IR emitter to the top of the Pole Display (under a red lens) and set up receivers to pick up the time that way. I presume if I used a carrier other than the one used by IrDA, I could still use the link between my laptop and desktop. I suppose I would have to write a PalmOS app to read the time. This would be easy to prototype with a Pole display and a Linux box with a few serial ports. I could at least do a proof-of-concept prototype. I've also thought about turning an iOpener into a wall clock. Then there is this wall-mount 486 I have with a 10" screen, two PCMCIA slots, an ISA slot, internal HD, etc. I was just contemplating getting a set of Diamond HomeFree cards (cheap) but didn't know if there were Linux drivers for it or not. > ...or maybe you can turn the status lights into a binary clock output? I'm an old hand with Binary Clocks (I've built several and even have an interrupt driven software one for the PET that fits in the cassette buffer and "draws" the clock face in the upper-left corner of the screen that I wrote when I was 13 ;-) I'm even looking at one now on top of my monitor at work (you should hear some of the comments I get). So... while it's a nice idea in theory, unless you rotated the time through a modem faceplate digit by digit, I don't see how you could fit it into the case for a 1200-baud modem. > In the very least, it would make one killer exhibit for the VCF to show > what someone can do in their copious free time to reconstruct computing's > past :) It would be all of that. Now if only I could get some time off when one of the VCFs is running. :-( Lots of ideas, plenty of ways to roll it. No time. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 12:48:25 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010724174825.98649.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It's set to air Wednesday (tomorrow) at 10pm on The Learning Channel. > > http://tlc.discovery.com/tuneins/hackers.html > > It features John Draper (a.k.a. Cap'n Crunch, a.k.a. freaky weirdo whom > you should cross the street to avoid) I have met John Draper in San Jose at party at a VR convention in 1993. It was an interesting experience. He certainly qualifies as a freaky weirdo. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Jul 24 13:00:17 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BC3@MAIL10> Hi: I have one of these clocks, but haven't opened it in a while. I believe that it's an extruded Al case that would prevent you from expanding the case vertically. If it weren't for the display, the PCB could fit in the Hayes 300 case. As I recall, there's a single 40-pin LSI chip with some support chips and various passives. IIRC, the LSI is a General Instruments chip. There's also a 2xAA battery backup. As far as the display, it looks to be a Futaba clock display. Problem is is that no one carries them. Jameco has one, but it's only 4-digits. If I were retrofitting/rebuilding the clock, and $$$ wasn't an issue, I'd use a Noritake serial VFD display with a custom font and a PIC for the clock. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:ethan_dicks@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 1:37 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: hayes chronograph --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I bet with as much work as you described in setting up an infrared > communications network to beam the time signal to machines around the > room (cool idea BTW :) Thanks. > one could take an old Hayes 300/1200/2400 modem, > dump the EPROM, hack the code to replace various AT commands with the > Chronograph AT command set, add a clock/calendar chip to the board > somewhere, and roll your own Chronograph. You'd still have to add the > digital readout on the front I noticed from the picture from the cover of the manual that it is the same style as a 1200-baud modem, but taller (to accomodate the display). It looks about the same size as my Tecmar T-Disk case. I'd have to go look, but it depends on which style of extruded aluminum case they used if it could be expanded vertically. The width would be fixed by the size of the top and bottom plates, but it might be possible to fit side risers. In any case, I'm not sure where I'd get a compatible display. I also play with LCD (and VFD) displays with the LCDproc project (lcdproc.omnipotent.net) I have one 20x4 VFD and a couple 20x2 displays (so-called "Pole Displays" for cash registers - RS-232 and 6VAC to drive them). It wouldn't look like a Chronograph, but I could fit an IR emitter to the top of the Pole Display (under a red lens) and set up receivers to pick up the time that way. I presume if I used a carrier other than the one used by IrDA, I could still use the link between my laptop and desktop. I suppose I would have to write a PalmOS app to read the time. This would be easy to prototype with a Pole display and a Linux box with a few serial ports. I could at least do a proof-of-concept prototype. I've also thought about turning an iOpener into a wall clock. Then there is this wall-mount 486 I have with a 10" screen, two PCMCIA slots, an ISA slot, internal HD, etc. I was just contemplating getting a set of Diamond HomeFree cards (cheap) but didn't know if there were Linux drivers for it or not. > ...or maybe you can turn the status lights into a binary clock output? I'm an old hand with Binary Clocks (I've built several and even have an interrupt driven software one for the PET that fits in the cassette buffer and "draws" the clock face in the upper-left corner of the screen that I wrote when I was 13 ;-) I'm even looking at one now on top of my monitor at work (you should hear some of the comments I get). So... while it's a nice idea in theory, unless you rotated the time through a modem faceplate digit by digit, I don't see how you could fit it into the case for a 1200-baud modem. > In the very least, it would make one killer exhibit for the VCF to show > what someone can do in their copious free time to reconstruct computing's > past :) It would be all of that. Now if only I could get some time off when one of the VCFs is running. :-( Lots of ideas, plenty of ways to roll it. No time. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 24 13:03:35 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >Anybody know where I can find a Hayes Chronograph? I ran across > > At least half the list is looking and not finding one of those. Not even > eBay has turned one up. > But, I think even more scarce is my Hayes Transet 1000 Mailbox - circa 1985 - which I had not even heard of until I picked it up at a swap some months back. - don From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Jul 24 13:13:59 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: <20010724174825.98649.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have met John Draper in San Jose at party at a VR convention in 1993. It > was an interesting experience. He certainly qualifies as a freaky weirdo. The last time I saw John was in the late 70's, during a brief period when he was hanging out around the fringes of the MCEP project at LHS. I believe "freaky weirdo" was the term that someone applied to him at that time. The speed of light in a vacuum, John Draper's social skills -- apparently some things are universal constants. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 13:23:41 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BC3@MAIL10> Message-ID: <20010724182341.33074.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Cini, Richard" wrote: > Hi: > > I have one of these clocks, but haven't opened it in a while. I > believe that it's an extruded Al case that would prevent you from expanding > the case vertically. If it weren't for the display, the PCB could fit in the > Hayes 300 case. That makes sense, given how that style of case goes. > As far as the display, it looks to be a Futaba clock display. > Problem is is that no one carries them. Jameco has one, but it's only > 4-digits. I've never tried to hack right to a VFD. I've only ever played with ones that have controllers. I take it the day of the week display is part of the flourescent, not LEDs behind the "Sun...Sat" labels, right? > If I were retrofitting/rebuilding the clock, and $$$ wasn't an > issue, I'd use a Noritake serial VFD display with a custom font and a PIC > for the clock. That's more or less what I'm leaning towards. I have a Matrix Orbital 20x4 VFD from Linux Central that is currently mounted behind a disk drive bay bracket. It is easily movable. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Jul 24 13:34:39 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 09:08:23AM -0700 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066076@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <20010724133439.A2021917@uiuc.edu> Personally, I've had really good luck lately with TDK 80min. media. I get the stuff in bulk at work, and it runs about $0.60 each with slim jewel case when bought in 100-packs from CDW. I've never had read or write errors with it, and I've used it to copy Solaris, HP-UX, and AIX media, in addition to more normal things. Sellam Ismail said: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > > > Personally, I have only had one read-failure in several hundred burns. > > That's not counting a few coasters along the way - this was a partial > > read-failure some six months to a year later when I came to use the > > CD. > > Wait ten or twenty years, and then make your assessment. That's what Tim > is concerned with. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jul 24 13:29:47 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066079@exc-reo1> >Wait ten or twenty years, and then make your >assessment. That's what Tim is concerned with. That's what I am trying to clarify. I'd rather not wait the ten or twenty years. I've already learnt my lesson ... all my floppies will eventually make it onto CD in some image format or other. Within ten years I expect all my CDs (and DVDs) to have made it onto C3D. I don't yet know where I'll be headed twenty years after that :-) Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Jul 24 13:34:22 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706607A@exc-reo1> FWIW it aired on Sunday (IIRC) in the UK on Channel 4 (IIRC). I missed the beginning but I did get to see the Altair, the Apple, the IBM PC, Cap'n Crunch, Woz and Mitnik. I assumed that I'd missed the point because I missed the start but now I realise that I was not supposed to actually learn anything. ("Space" on BBC1 was a bit of a disappointment too) Antonio From red at bears.org Tue Jul 24 13:45:29 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BC3@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > If I were retrofitting/rebuilding the clock, and $$$ wasn't an > issue, I'd use a Noritake serial VFD display with a custom font and a PIC > for the clock. Is this the same Noritake which made the china set I inherited from my parents? ok r. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jul 24 13:09:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066076@exc-reo1> Message-ID: >> Personally, I have only had one read-failure in several hundred burns. >> That's not counting a few coasters along the way - this was a partial >> read-failure some six months to a year later when I came to use the >> CD. > >Wait ten or twenty years, and then make your assessment. That's what Tim >is concerned with. One of the nasty things about CDR is the robust error correction, its like idiot lights on a car dash, by the time you get a red light, the damage is done and data most likely beyond recovery. The other thing is that at least in my experience the damage to a CDR often starts at the outside edge, and the data starts on the inside. Many CDRs get burnt with only a couple hundred MB, so they have a large no data band between the start of damage, and problems won't show up until the disc is almost totally hosed. My guess is that about 3 or 5 years from now we will see a MASSIVE amount CDR recovery and reburning going on. Damage is showing up already in small percentages, but until people feel very confident in some new media the reburning won't go past obviously damaged CDRs. Once the confidence in the media is great enough, then people will want to reburn EVERYTHING. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Jul 24 14:27:39 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BC7@MAIL10> Ethan: >>I take it the day of the week display is part of the flourescent, >>not LEDs behind the "Sun...Sat" labels, right? Yes, this is the case. I would guess that the LSI multiplexes the digits without any other drivers. The DOW labels are probably treated as segments of a 7th digit by the LSI Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:ethan_dicks@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:24 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: hayes chronograph --- "Cini, Richard" wrote: > Hi: > > I have one of these clocks, but haven't opened it in a while. I > believe that it's an extruded Al case that would prevent you from expanding > the case vertically. If it weren't for the display, the PCB could fit in the > Hayes 300 case. That makes sense, given how that style of case goes. > As far as the display, it looks to be a Futaba clock display. > Problem is is that no one carries them. Jameco has one, but it's only > 4-digits. I've never tried to hack right to a VFD. I've only ever played with ones that have controllers. I take it the day of the week display is part of the flourescent, not LEDs behind the "Sun...Sat" labels, right? > If I were retrofitting/rebuilding the clock, and $$$ wasn't an > issue, I'd use a Noritake serial VFD display with a custom font and a PIC > for the clock. That's more or less what I'm leaning towards. I have a Matrix Orbital 20x4 VFD from Linux Central that is currently mounted behind a disk drive bay bracket. It is easily movable. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 15:19:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: More for the Hayes Chronograph Message-ID: <20010724201924.8789.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> OK... now I'm starting to dig... found this: http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/systems/cpm/genasm/spttim10.aqm Which is described by the readme as... NOTE: This list was created on Sun Oct 26 12:14:58 EST 1997 Some files may have been added or deleted since that date. See file pub/cpm/filedocs/aaaread.me for additional information. NOTE: Type B is Binary; Type A is ASCII Directory pub/cpm/genasm/ Filename Type Length Date Description ============================================== . . . spttim10.aqm B 5120 850209 Time support package for DC Hayes Chronograph Anyone have a handy Z80 disassembler with a CP/M symbol table? I'm just curious what's in there. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 14:21:53 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: <20010724174825.98649.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > It's set to air Wednesday (tomorrow) at 10pm on The Learning Channel. > > > > http://tlc.discovery.com/tuneins/hackers.html > > > > It features John Draper (a.k.a. Cap'n Crunch, a.k.a. freaky weirdo whom > > you should cross the street to avoid) > > I have met John Draper in San Jose at party at a VR convention in 1993. It > was an interesting experience. He certainly qualifies as a freaky weirdo. He's not a bad guy, or an intentionally bad guy. He just has, let's say, weird tastes, and a very disconcerting and off-putting way of expressing it towards you. I am flattered whenever anyone expresses an interest in me, but I'm not into guys and I'm definitely not into the Cap'n Crunch type :) Anyway, a point that is underlying this is that we fail to realize that these folks we read about or have read about all our lives are humans too, with their own faults and quirks and oddities (and perversions). If you ever have the experience of meeting a living legend and finding out they are just human like you (or maybe less so :) you'll understand. I've met a lot of computer legends as a result of the VCF and it is not often that the expectations I had for how that person is in real life are realized. So now I don't go in with any expectations other than that person is human. The one person who I expected to be the weirdest was Clifford Stoll (author of _The Cuckoo's Egg_ and _Silicon Snakeoil_). He is a bit weird, but nowhere near what I expected. It works both ways, you see :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 14:23:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > But, I think even more scarce is my Hayes Transet 1000 Mailbox - circa > 1985 - which I had not even heard of until I picked it up at a swap > some months back. Oooh, interesting. More details, please :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 14:25:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <20010724133439.A2021917@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Dan Wright wrote: > Personally, I've had really good luck lately with TDK 80min. media. > I get the stuff in bulk at work, and it runs about $0.60 each with > slim jewel case when bought in 100-packs from CDW. I've never had > read or write errors with it, and I've used it to copy Solaris, HP-UX, > and AIX media, in addition to more normal things. Wait 10 or 20 years, then let us know how your data is doing :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 15:32:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BC7@MAIL10> Message-ID: <20010724203202.51567.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Cini, Richard" wrote: > Ethan: > > >>I take it the day of the week display is part of the flourescent, > >>not LEDs behind the "Sun...Sat" labels, right? > > Yes, this is the case. I would guess that the LSI multiplexes the > digits without any other drivers. The DOW labels are probably treated as > segments of a 7th digit by the LSI That sounds kinda wierd but I guess it might work that way. The block diagram on page A-7 suggests that it might be so. As I said, I've never tried to play with direct drive of a VFD. Any ideas what the voltages are? The block diagram shows +16V and +32V unreg. and +5V, +10V and -10V reg. I'm sure +/-10V goes to the 1488/1489 set. I suppose that the unreg. voltages go to the display. Thanks for the manual scan, BTW. I had some difficulty viewing it - the .GIF files came out blank on my browser and greyed out in WinBlows Imaging. I had to tell the software to use a 24-bit palette to get a B&W image to show up. :-P Another question: where is the alarm indicator mentioned on page 3-8? I didn't see anywhere on the cover pic that suggested where another word might be. I'm already trying to figure out how to do a custom font for a 20x4 character display with 8 whopping programmable characters. I need one just for the day of the week. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Jul 24 15:46:45 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen now...) Message-ID: <006901c11481$c111f200$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all I am not a very "public" person but I could not turn this one down... An offer for an interview with a big Montreal newspaper... Photos and hour long interview about vintage computer collecting...show off a bit of the collection etc... Lets see if this will bring in some rare finds/offers or just emails from people with 286s and XTs that will be asking $50 for them... By the way, I still have the tape of CBCs Undercurrents and their report on vintage computer collecting and hope to find a card to capture this and transfer it to .avi or similar and let you all have a chance at seeing this report...If anyone has a ATI capture card or similar I am open to offers.....I have an old Spigot card here for NUbus MAcs but doubt that will produce anything pleasant... Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector or http://computer_collector.tripod.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 24 13:26:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <000101c113e3$ac38ebc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 23, 1 01:36:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1140 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010724/164575ce/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 24 13:37:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <200107240151.VAA07219@smtp6.mindspring.com> from "Louis Schulman" at Jul 23, 1 09:52:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010724/775b0eea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 24 14:51:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 23, 1 07:06:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 887 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010724/dd36863c/attachment.ksh From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 24 15:47:46 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: More for the Hayes Chronograph In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 24, 2001 01:19:24 PM Message-ID: <200107242047.f6OKlkS03126@narnia.int.dittman.net> > NOTE: Type B is Binary; Type A is ASCII > > Directory pub/cpm/genasm/ > Filename Type Length Date Description > ============================================== > . > . > . > spttim10.aqm B 5120 850209 Time support package for DC Hayes Chronograph > > Anyone have a handy Z80 disassembler with a CP/M symbol table? I'm just > curious what's in there. That looks like a compressed .ASM source file. All you should need to do is to uncompress the file. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 24 15:40:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:00 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <20010724203202.51567.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 24, 1 01:32:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2003 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010724/8147c04a/attachment.ksh From mbbrutman at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 16:17:01 2001 From: mbbrutman at yahoo.com (Michael B. Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R Message-ID: <20010724211701.21814.qmail@web4803.mail.yahoo.com> I don't know if this has been answered or not, but at the sake of being redundant I'll throw in my two cents. Kodak had a line of CDs called "InfoGuard", which have a gold colored reflective surface. The ones I have are for data (computers). They are reputed to be indestructible compared to cheapie media. The protective layer on them is so strong/thick/opaque (choose the correct one) that my Yamaha 4416S can't write them reliably over 2x speed. The Yamaha wasn't a cheapie, so I contacted both Yamaha and Kodak tech support. They knew of the problem, and advised be to write at 2x even though the drive and media are rated for 4x. The discs I've written at 2x are readable. I treat my discs well, so I can't tell you if they really are indestructible. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 24 16:28:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws References: Message-ID: <001301c11487$994a2c00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> WHAT??? You guys have your own cops? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:25 AM Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws > > I am pretty sure this show, which will undoubtedly be typical > over-sensationalized Learning Channel tripe, is the one where I supplied > many old computers for filming, including an Altair, Imsai, Apple ][, > TRS-80, PET, etc. There may also be semi-sihouletted shots of me typing > on a keyboard. > > It's set to air Wednesday (tomorrow) at 10pm on The Learning Channel. > > http://tlc.discovery.com/tuneins/hackers.html > > It features John Draper (a.k.a. Cap'n Crunch, a.k.a. freaky weirdo whom > you should cross the street to avoid), Steve Wozniak, and Kevin Mitnick. > Why Woz is included in this group is not entirely clear, but the producers > of the show are British, so that could explain things :) It has a lot to > do with the blue box of course, but Kevin Mitnick is a criminal thug, and > Woz is just Woz. > > TLC used to be a great channel to actually LEARN stuff on. But I think I > know enough about high-speed chases and asshole cops already. Can we move > on to another subject, please? > > As great as it is, Junkyard Wars doesn't redeem the channel. All the cool > stuff is on The History Channel these days :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 16:32:18 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: More for the Hayes Chronograph In-Reply-To: <200107242047.f6OKlkS03126@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010724213218.19056.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > NOTE: Type B is Binary; Type A is ASCII > > spttim10.aqm B 5120 850209 Time support package for DC Hayes > Chronograph > > That looks like a compressed .ASM source file. All you > should need to do is to uncompress the file. With what tool? Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 24 16:52:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: Message-ID: <002b01c1148a$e7ee96e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Having looked a MOT databook for communication devices, (1993) but I do see they have an output enable. The 3487's have got enables on the transmitters, but in pairs, i.e. you enable two outputs at a time. I'm not sure that these are suitable for multidrop applications, though there are similar devices that are. I'm not convinced that there's a "disconnected" state that would work to allow more than one transmitter on a pair. The line is intended to be passively terminated, since the signal is differential. What I remember as odd was that back in the late '70's when I first encountered these, specifically in the context of data line drivers on SMD's and hard disks in general, the AMD pairs (26LS31/32) were terminated with a 100-ohm resistor between the pair, while the MOT parts were terminated with a pair of 51-ohm resistors to ground. Both of them have essentially the same common mode tolerance and they both work essentially the same. ISTR 75176 was designed to RS-485 spec's, which allows for multi-drop use. I don't know the low-level details, but there's a whole range of RS-485 devices which will work in RS422/432, but the RS-422 devices won't work in RS-485 environments. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:26 PM Subject: Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > > > On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > Memsoft TC2E0260. This board looks hand-soldered, and some components are > > > > missing. It's got a 6850 (ACIA), MC3486, MC3487 (Buffers), and TTL glue > > > > on it. And space for a 2716 EPROM. > > > > > My guess is that this is a serial interface intended for RS423 or RS422 use, > > i.e. longer distances. It's possible the 2716 was intended to support some > > customed protocol, but the 6850 is essentially a UART, (no synchronous > > capability) and somewhat rate limited. The 3486/87 are differential drivers for > > RS422/423. One wouldn't have used the diff drivers unless one needed to have > > the signal travel some considerable distance. > > Do these buffers support any kind of multi-drop capability? Could this be > a low-end custom network interface. > > I know that the Gemini (UK Z80 machine, related to the Nascom) had a > network interface that was little more than an AY-5-1013 UART and a 75176 > transceiver. > The number on the 40 pin UART chip had been scraped off, but > it took about 10 seconds to work out what it really was. Perhaps > something similar existed for the Apple. > > -tony > > From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Jul 24 16:56:35 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen now...) In-Reply-To: <006901c11481$c111f200$0200a8c0@gamerclaude>; from claudew@videotron.ca on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 04:46:45PM -0400 References: <006901c11481$c111f200$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <20010724165635.D2076952@uiuc.edu> I might have an extra Sunvideo capture board for SBUS... if you're interested I can look around for it. Claude.W said: > Hi all > > I am not a very "public" person but I could not turn this one down... > > An offer for an interview with a big Montreal newspaper... > > Photos and hour long interview about vintage computer collecting...show off > a bit of the collection etc... > > Lets see if this will bring in some rare finds/offers or just emails from > people with 286s and XTs that will be asking $50 for them... > > By the way, I still have the tape of CBCs Undercurrents and their report on > vintage computer collecting and hope to find a card to capture this and > transfer it to .avi or similar and let you all have a chance at seeing this > report...If anyone has a ATI capture card or similar I am open to > offers.....I have an old Spigot card here for NUbus MAcs but doubt that will > produce anything pleasant... > > Claude > http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector > or > http://computer_collector.tripod.com > - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) (UNIX Systems Administrator, School of Chemical Sciences) (333-1728) From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 24 17:00:32 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: Message-ID: <003101c1148c$0f42d660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It was, IIRC, necessary to have a version of the RWTS (read/write track/sector) routines for any block I/O device, and that is probably part of what the ROM provided. I have a homebrew system that was certainly equipped with an RWTS equivalent so that it could read APEX-formatted 8" diskettes (APEX being a locally generated OS for the APPLE, that used 8" diskettes via the Sorrento Valley Associates 1771-based controller on an APPLE) by means of my hand-wired interface and an SMS FT400 controller with 2 8" drives. It was even MFM capable, which the Apple-based SVA adapter was not, though I read that SVA was planning to release a DD version. If you could patch the resident OS to determine which controller was needed and to select the appropriate RWTS version, (think of this as BIOS primitives) then return the appropriate values when it was done, it would happily work with the Apple. While WOZ's FDC and FDD were designed to save APPLE lots of dough, they didn't give away much, and they didnt' cause lots of software problems. The guy did some fine work. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > > > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:58:49 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: > > > > #> > I wonder if the 'Cold Boot Adapter' links to that KONAN card and > > adds > > #> > a hard disk to the Apple. The Cold Boot part meaning the Apple can > > #> > boot from the hard disk without needed a boot floppy. I am > > probably > > #> > wildly off, though > > #> > > #> I was thinking something similar actually. > > # > > #In which case I should start looking at the EPROMs on these boards). > > > > This seems unlikely. Apple IIs never needed a boot floppy, they just > > booted from the first recognizable disk controller, starting at slot 7 > > For an Apple to boot from a disk controller (any disk controller), there > has to be code in ROM on the disk controller that tells the Apple's CPU > how to read the boot sector, etc. That's what one of the PROMs on the > Disk II card is. After all, you can't expect the Apple monitor ROM to > understnad every disk controller that ever could exist. > > If you have a disk controller _without_ such a ROM, then you'd need a > program (presumably loaded from a disk via a normal Disk II controller) > to use it. I've seen a 1771-based card (to read 8" CP/M floppies) that > did this. The Apple couldn't boot from it, but you could run a program > from a normal disk to copy files between normal Apple ][ disks and the 8" > CP/M ones. > > If this cold boot adapter is to do with the hard disk, then it's possible > that the ROM contains the boot code so the machine can boot from the hard > disk. I have no idea if there's a similar card without the ROM that > needs a boot floppy. > > -tony > > From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Tue Jul 24 17:01:49 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen In-Reply-To: <006901c11481$c111f200$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On 24-Jul-2001 Claude.W wrote: > Hi all > > I am not a very "public" person but I could not turn this one down... > > An offer for an interview with a big Montreal newspaper... Which paper? I'd like to grab a copy when it's published. > Lets see if this will bring in some rare finds/offers or just emails > from people with 286s and XTs that will be asking $50 for them... A local school is selling off all it's 486s for 200 CAD each. I scoff! People seem to expect an inordinate amount for old computers. Using Moore's metric, a computer's price is halved every 1.5 years. So that pentium 100Mhz laptop you paid 3000 for 6 years ago is now worth 750 or so NOT 1500. *sigh* Heck, I could get a 1ghz celeron desktop for that much! Rant rant rant rant. > By the way, I still have the tape of CBCs Undercurrents and their report > on vintage computer collecting and hope to find a card to capture this > and transfer it to .avi or similar and let you all have a chance at > seeing this report...If anyone has a ATI capture card or similar I am > open to offers.....I have an old Spigot card here for NUbus MAcs but > doubt that will produce anything pleasant... I have a friend who was very much into ATI capture cards. Dunno if he's got a working one to give away, though. I'll ask next time I see him. -Philip From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Jul 24 17:12:16 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: <010724181216.2a404125@trailing-edge.com> Sellam Ismail said: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > > > Personally, I have only had one read-failure in several hundred burns. > > That's not counting a few coasters along the way - this was a partial > > read-failure some six months to a year later when I came to use the > > CD. > > Wait ten or twenty years, and then make your assessment. That's what Tim > is concerned with. And a test I use - a carbon-arc-lamp nicknamed "buttercup". (If there are any ex-Dabney-House readers here, they'll get the reference.) I can only run it intermittently, but all cyanine-based CD-R's become unreadable after a few hours of 10% exposure to it. (I think a few hours is somewhere around a decade of solar UV exposure.) The CompUSA-super-duper cheapies (CMC Magnetics by the ATIP code) become unreadable after just a few minutes. I think these use the cyanine dye without any stabilizers at all. I've melted pthalocyanine-based CD-R's (Kodak Ultima and Mitsui Gold) by putting them too close to the arc, but never damaged the data otherwise :-) Of course, two seconds in the microwave on "high" completely destroys them *all*! Tim. From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 24 17:11:07 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws References: Message-ID: <004b01c1148d$89f40720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > ...freaky weirdo whom you should cross the street to avoid)... Sounds unnecessarily negative. Honestly, have you ever met the person? Perhaps you have tried to get him to speak at VCFW? John A. (No, I'm Not trying to provoke Sellam) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 24 17:00:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <002b01c1148a$e7ee96e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 24, 1 03:52:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1585 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010724/faae52fc/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 24 17:28:27 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen References: Message-ID: <009701c1148f$f646d2c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> - - - - copped - - - - - - A local school is selling off all it's 486s for 200 CAD each. I scoff! People seem to expect an inordinate amount for old computers. Using Moore's metric, a computer's price is halved every 1.5 years. So that pentium 100Mhz laptop you paid 3000 for 6 years ago is now worth 750 or so NOT 1500. *sigh* Heck, I could get a 1ghz celeron desktop for that much! Rant rant rant rant. - - - - - - - - - - - - - It's worse than your think: 6/1.5 = 4 2^4 = 16 3000/16 = $187.50 John A. (unless its a HiNote ) From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jul 24 17:53:43 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Someone please give a ride to Max Eskin to VCF East Message-ID: <004e01c11494$eaa9dac0$9b759a8d@ajp166> It's unlikely that I can pick up Max. FYI: Max, the old email address is changed due to far to much spam. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Pope To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Someone please give a ride to Max Eskin to VCF East >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Max Eskin >> >> I realized that I have no way of getting to the VCF. There's no way in hell >> that my parents will let me drive there, and I don't want to ask my dad to >> drive me either. It's about an hour away from my house. So could you >> perhaps forward me some kind of list of people living in the boston area >> whom I could contact and ask for rides? I e-mailed Allison Parent, but >> she hasn't responded. I don't remember who else from classiccmp lives >> around here. >> Thanks, >> Max Eskin >> > >Max, > > Where abouts are you located? I am in Waltham. I am planning to leave >around 9:00 am and stay for the entire day. > >Cheers, > >Bryan Pope From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 24 17:46:42 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <010724181216.2a404125@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010724173836.02fdeef0@pc> At 06:12 PM 7/24/01 -0400, CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: >And a test I use - a carbon-arc-lamp nicknamed "buttercup". (If there >are any ex-Dabney-House readers here, they'll get the reference.) I can >only run it intermittently, but all cyanine-based CD-R's become unreadable >after a few hours of 10% exposure to it. (I think a few hours is somewhere >around a decade of solar UV exposure.) I admire your thoroughness, but I think putting my media in a cool, dark place will reduce its exposure to UV and temperature extremes. Perhaps I'll need to worry about degeneration of the chemicals inside the CD, or something else we're not guessing about today. Meanwhile, I'll cross my fingers and assume I'll have other media choices in the next 5-10 years that'll encourage me to re-copy my CD-Rs, which have patiently waited in their fire-proof case. - John From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 24 18:11:56 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: More for the Hayes Chronographu In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 24, 2001 02:32:18 PM Message-ID: <200107242311.f6ONBux03503@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > NOTE: Type B is Binary; Type A is ASCII > > > spttim10.aqm B 5120 850209 Time support package for DC Hayes > > Chronograph > > > > That looks like a compressed .ASM source file. All you > > should need to do is to uncompress the file. > > With what tool? It's been a while. UNSQUEEZE? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 24 18:14:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: Message-ID: <000d01c11496$6809b0c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> inline comments below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > > > > Having looked a MOT databook for communication devices, (1993) but I do see they > > have an output enable. The 3487's have got enables on the transmitters, but in > > pairs, i.e. you enable two outputs at a time. I'm not sure that these are > > suitable for multidrop applications, though there are similar devices that are. > > I've found the TI datasheet for these chips. It claims they're direct > replacements for the Motorola parts, so I assume it's close enough > > > > I'm not convinced that there's a "disconnected" state that would work to allow > > more than one transmitter on a pair. The line is intended to be passively > > When the OE line is low, then both outputs of each transmitter in the > pair are high impedance (disconnected, etc). So you can have multiple > transmitters driving the same pair of lines, if you ensure only one is on > at a time. > I made that assumption once, and was immediately informed that one should use the RS485-compatible drivers, back in the "old" days. The guy who jumped me was the app's engineer from MOT, and he was pretty young, but he was only spouting the party line. I'm not sure that it makes any difference, but one does wonder why the Fairchild/T.I. folks built all those RS-485-targeted devices if these would work as well. It was never an issue for me, since I used them internally between subsystems, but I always liked the 2-resistors on either side of ground better than the single 100-ohm resistor as shown with the AMD driver/receiver pair. The hi-z state certainly looks like it should work for multidrop use. > > My guess is that on this card, not all the sections of the 3487 are used, > so the fact that one enable line controls 2 transmitter sections is not > going to matter too much. > > The data sheet gives a value for the short-circuit current. It also says > that only 1 transmitter should be shorted at a time, and not for more > than 1s. In a mulitdrop network type application, a collision would be > detected in a lot less than 1s (we hope!), so my guess is that it would > be OK to use the 3487 in this way. Not a good design, but a design that > would work (typical of a lot of Apple and IBM PC plug-in cards, actually...) > > When I've got some time (too many other projects...) I'll see how the > 3486/7 are used on this card. > Until you learn what the target application was, you'll like be left in the dark. While one can figure out what a board might do, until one gets a picture of what the mfg intended, it remains a mystery why things were done as they were. > > -tony > > From rlmdlm01 at juno.com Tue Jul 24 18:09:13 2001 From: rlmdlm01 at juno.com (Robert L McKee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Info/docs on tube tester? Message-ID: <20010724.160915.-16305115.2.rlmdlm01@juno.com> I have the EICO Model 635 Tube Tester and the Operating Instructions and Tube Data Information. This book contains the; General Description Warranty General Information Tube Testing Procedure Testing Picture Tubes All Vacuum Tube Switch Settings Parts List Schematic Diagram Would be willing to make a copy and send. Requester to pay for repo costs and shipping. I am having trouble with socket "A" in mine. It's a 10-pin socket, looks like a standard 9-pin with a 10th in the center of the socket. Would appreciate info on where I can get another socket. Cheers, Bob McKee rlmdlm01@juno.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 24 18:26:16 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: from "John Foust" at Jul 24, 2001 05:46:42 PM Message-ID: <200107242326.f6ONQGa18093@shell1.aracnet.com> > about today. Meanwhile, I'll cross my fingers and assume I'll have > other media choices in the next 5-10 years that'll encourage me > to re-copy my CD-Rs, which have patiently waited in their > fire-proof case. Something better than keeping them in a fire-proof case is to keep copies off-site. After all, what else are relatives for, other than to keep a locked box containing backups of your important data. Zane From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 17:27:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen now...) In-Reply-To: <006901c11481$c111f200$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Claude.W wrote: > An offer for an interview with a big Montreal newspaper... > > Photos and hour long interview about vintage computer collecting...show off > a bit of the collection etc... Cool deal. > Lets see if this will bring in some rare finds/offers or just emails from > people with 286s and XTs that will be asking $50 for them... You'll definitely get plenty of these, but you'll most likely also receive some good offers. I usually steer the people with original IBM PC stuff to the list, otherwise I suggest to them that they donate it to their local community college so the students can use them for spare parts for various projects. I no longer suggest Goodwill or Salvation Army as those orgs have stopped taking old 80s era PCs. > By the way, I still have the tape of CBCs Undercurrents and their > report on vintage computer collecting and hope to find a card to > capture this and transfer it to .avi or similar and let you all have a > chance at seeing this report...If anyone has a ATI capture card or > similar I am open to offers.....I have an old Spigot card here for > NUbus MAcs but doubt that will produce anything pleasant... I'm setup with a video capture board and can convert the tape pretty readily. Send me a copy and I'll see about digitizing it when I get back from VCF East. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 18:31:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010724173836.02fdeef0@pc> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010724173836.02fdeef0@pc> Message-ID: >I admire your thoroughness, but I think putting my media in >a cool, dark place will reduce its exposure to UV and temperature >extremes. Perhaps I'll need to worry about degeneration of >the chemicals inside the CD, or something else we're not guessing >about today. Meanwhile, I'll cross my fingers and assume I'll have >other media choices in the next 5-10 years that'll encourage me >to re-copy my CD-Rs, which have patiently waited in their >fire-proof case. With the CompUSA cheapies, my original CD-R (a Philips CDD2000) wouldn't even touch them. It definatley prefers the ones with the dark blue dye. I've also had trouble with CD-R's being read on older CD-ROMs on the cheapie disks while burning them on better quality disks worked fine. Now I use a Philips Omniwriter and it's less picky about the media and I'm still searching for consistent good quality. I found an interesting site the other day that deals with some of these questions though and even breaks down which factories make which brands: http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_quality.shtml For the moment though, on systems that are capable of using the drive, I've been writing system backups and such to MO disks, which are supposed to be much sturdier than CD-R's. At 230MB (3.5" Fujitsu IDE drive) and 1.3gig (5.25" Pinnacle SCSI drive), the capacity isn't too bad. Even my laptop has one of the Fujitsu drives as a hot swappable expansion bay. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 17:32:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > Moore's metric, a computer's price is halved every 1.5 years. So that > pentium 100Mhz laptop you paid 3000 for 6 years ago is now worth 750 or so > NOT 1500. *sigh* Heck, I could get a 1ghz celeron desktop for that much! Not even that. A 100Mhz laptop should fetch no more than $100-$150 tops. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 17:34:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <010724181216.2a404125@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > Of course, two seconds in the microwave on "high" completely destroys > them *all*! Some people have crumbs in their microwave ovens (I do). Tim apparently has melted plastic and resin compounds in his, with probably smoke streaks. I'd hate to cook a meal in your kitchen :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 17:37:20 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: <004b01c1148d$89f40720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > > ...freaky weirdo whom you should cross the street to avoid)... > > Sounds unnecessarily negative. Honestly, have you ever met > the person? Yes. > Perhaps you have tried to get him to speak at VCFW? Not yet, but I intend to someday. I planned to last year but it didn't work out. I couldn't get a hold of Don Ingraham, the Oakland, California prosecutor who busted Draper, and who retired last year. The two of them would've made for a great talk, don't you think? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 24 17:37:56 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen In-Reply-To: <009701c1148f$f646d2c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > It's worse than your think: > 6/1.5 = 4 > 2^4 = 16 > 3000/16 = $187.50 Much better ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 24 18:54:30 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: More for the Hayes Chronographu Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513C1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > > spttim10.aqm B 5120 850209 Time support package for DC Hayes Chronograph > > > > > > That looks like a compressed .ASM source file. All you > > > should need to do is to uncompress the file. > > > > With what tool? > > It's been a while. UNSQUEEZE? I just dumped a copy (circa 1985) in ftp://204.250.0.238/pub/usq.exe -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 24 18:57:47 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Cipher F880 Docs Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513C2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Was someone here looking for the Cipher F880 docs? I finally found the CD I'd burned of them, so if anyone needs them, I'll dump 'em out on the FTP site for temporary residence... -dq From bola at piraeii.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 24 19:21:41 2001 From: bola at piraeii.demon.co.uk (Zero Piraeus) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: FS: Toshiba T1000XE Message-ID: <996020502.2721.17.camel@frisbee> Hey: I don't think I'm going to persuade this to run X, so ... It includes what I assume is the original carrying case, UK mains power supply and a battery. Everything seems to be working. Any profit will be going to the Oxfam whence it came, if that helps to loosen any wallets. -[z]. From rnlion at its.caltech.edu Tue Jul 24 19:53:24 2001 From: rnlion at its.caltech.edu (Rob Lion) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Speaking of microwaves... My roommate and I at Caltech used our microwave last year for all kinds of fun... EPROMs, with the little window in the top, make a very impressive orange glow. Dead lightbulbs can make greens, reds, and purples (don't leave them in too long or they'll break, though). The best, however, is a couple of sticks of 0.5mm pencil lead; that makes a bright orange/red glow and the occasional ball of plasma. :-) By the end of the year the glass cooking dish was shattered into a dozen pieces by the intense heating/cooling cycles, and there were scorch marks everywhere, but it still cooked just fine. Fortunately for the new tenants, the microwave was getting replaced anyway, so we took it with us. The rest of the apartment took quite a beating as well. :-) ObClassicCmp: That apartment also saw a lot of dumpster-flux: junked computers and electronics dragged home, scavenged, and the scraps going back to the dumpster. Thus began my collection with a couple of SparcStations and some rackmount chassis. -Rob On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > > Of course, two seconds in the microwave on "high" completely destroys > > them *all*! > > Some people have crumbs in their microwave ovens (I do). Tim apparently > has melted plastic and resin compounds in his, with probably smoke > streaks. > > I'd hate to cook a meal in your kitchen :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 24 19:56:28 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Recent stuff References: Message-ID: <008d01c114a4$a3c60420$5fdb3fd0@DOMAIN> Remember in 'Adolesence of P1' when P1 got his first new core crystal with all the new space? An additional room to work with is allowing me to (start to) finally get a handle on my documentation impairment. ;) If you don't mind a 430k jpg then check out: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/COMPOSITE2.jpg for some of it. I'll shortly be a trimmin, givin, and a tradin. (And catching up on some backlogged copy distribution too. ) I did note an extra: Vax Architecture Reference Manual, a TRS-80 Level II Basic - A Self Teaching Guide, and a Newton - Defying Gravity that I'd trade for a few Zip floppies or a color cartridge for my Epson Stylus Color 1520 printer . Last week was great for new toys too. Thank you Joel! There is now a Tektronix 8002A on the road and getting closer to me as I write this. I'll post an update when it arrives. And then at last week's fleamarket, I found an Intel mscope 820 Microprocessor System Console with an 8080A mscope probe, and a mscope personality prom board. Hereare a few pics: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/I8201.jpg http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/I8202.jpg http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/I8203.jpg http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/I8204.jpg I don't have an 8080 system on hand to hook 'er up at the moment. Anyone familiar with it? ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jul 24 19:58:43 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010724173836.02fdeef0@pc> Message-ID: <3B5E19C3.70D9EF6B@idirect.com> >Jeff Hellige wrote: > >I admire your thoroughness, but I think putting my media in > >a cool, dark place will reduce its exposure to UV and temperature > >extremes. Perhaps I'll need to worry about degeneration of > >the chemicals inside the CD, or something else we're not guessing > >about today. Meanwhile, I'll cross my fingers and assume I'll have > >other media choices in the next 5-10 years that'll encourage me > >to re-copy my CD-Rs, which have patiently waited in their > >fire-proof case. > With the CompUSA cheapies, my original CD-R (a Philips > CDD2000) wouldn't even touch them. It definatley prefers the ones > with the dark blue dye. I've also had trouble with CD-R's being read > on older CD-ROMs on the cheapie disks while burning them on better > quality disks worked fine. Now I use a Philips Omniwriter and it's > less picky about the media and I'm still searching for consistent > good quality. I found an interesting site the other day that deals > with some of these questions though and even breaks down which > factories make which brands: > http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_quality.shtml Jerome Fine replies: I don't have the time right now to look, but thank you! > For the moment though, on systems that are capable of using > the drive, I've been writing system backups and such to MO disks, > which are supposed to be much sturdier than CD-R's. At 230MB (3.5" > Fujitsu IDE drive) and 1.3gig (5.25" Pinnacle SCSI drive), the > capacity isn't too bad. Even my laptop has one of the Fujitsu drives > as a hot swappable expansion bay. I have acquired a Sony SMO S501 and some cartridges. I understand that the company I bought them from used them for backup for at least 5 years. While each side of the cartridge holds only 300 MBytes, at least the total capacity (both sides) is almost equal to a CD. And although they are a bit slow on the WRITE operation, the READ operations are almost as fast as a hard disk drive. I don't know about retention, but I expect I will be making a backup of the long term files about every one or two years. Does anyone know how I might test a magneto optical cartridge for long term degradation? Also, if I can read the cartridge, does that indicate it is as good as when it was written or should it always be written again after 5 years just to be sure? If anyone ever sees a Sony SMO S501 for $ US 20 or less, please send it to me and I will always appreciate and accept it and pay you for the drive and shipping in the US and Canada. Shipping from Europe is still too expensive. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From kolasser at ilap.com Tue Jul 24 20:56:08 2001 From: kolasser at ilap.com (Jeff Kolasser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: "Allow myself to introduce... myself." Message-ID: <001c01c114ad$0228a380$9e74fea9@FredKolasser> In reference to Super Snapshot. V5.22 is now available and can be bought through J.P.P.B.M. who btw own the rights Their new mailing address is J.P. PBM Products By Mail Box # 60515, Jane/Wilson P/O Downsview, ON. M3L 1B0 CANADA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010724/6d853fa5/attachment.html From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 21:10:42 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: More for the Hayes Chronographu In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513C1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010725021042.40977.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > ...uncompress the file. > > > > > > With what tool? > > > > It's been a while. UNSQUEEZE? > > I just dumped a copy (circa 1985) in > > ftp://204.250.0.238/pub/usq.exe Got it; unsqueezed it. Many thanks. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 24 21:45:16 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! Message-ID: This afternoon, I ordered, and then picked up, a cable with MMJ connectors on it from Control Cable (they're in Woodlawn, MD) - a nice place to deal with; they specialize in cabling and related products, and what they sell appears to be of very good quality. The cost of the assembled cable was only a few cents different from their cost for a cable and two MMJ connectors, and was under US$5; of course, I had to pay US$5 extra since the order was under US$50, but that was no worse than shipping would have been if I'd ordered them from elsewhere. After connecting the VT320 to the VAX, I reset the system password. Fortunately, this VAX has the "real VMS" (TM) for VAXen on it: VAX/VMS, and it's a reasonably recent version: 5.5, which was close to the lastest version of VMS back when I last worked with a VAX for an employer, back around 1992. :-) This far, I haven't noticed anything truly remarkable with regards to software, although at first glance, it looks like nothing is missing. Fortunately, someone installed kermit, so that will make things, such as installing TCP/IP, easier. :-) There appears to be a fair amount of audio software, which I think may all be for use with that DECVoice system; text to voice software, for example. Since I don't have a T1 telephone connection, alas, it appears that I'm not going to be able to use this DECVoice hardware, and the audio software on this machine. Also, there's a mention of SQL in one of the text files that I looked through, although I didn't notice any database software installed; of course, I don't know the names of databases using SQL for VAXen. DECnet is installed and apparently configured, so I guess this means that I can use my DEC terminal server with this machine... do I need to do anything other than connect the terminal server to the VAX and then use it? I know nothing about DECnet. Of course, there's still the little matter of no tape drive being installed in this system, which is not a good thing. I have a TK70 and a TK50, along with a TKQ70 board. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From gessler at ucla.edu Tue Jul 24 21:35:48 2001 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nick Gessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: OT Jurassic Park In-Reply-To: <3B5AFF0C.F8A2F9CD@texoma.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724193248.02595520@pop.bol.ucla.edu> At 11:27 AM 7/22/01 -0500, James L. Rice wrote: >Does anyone know what Silicon Graphics systems were featured in Jurassic >Park (the first one)? I can't find my copy of the movie, I think my 8 >year old has hidden it. What about the Thinking Machines Connection Machine 5? The CM-5? I thought that was the really impressive box along with all the verbal and visual plugs for the company that since "went bankrupt." I guess the publicity didn't help them all that much. I am told that after the film was made the Thinking Machines staff were invited to a preview screening and they all had heaps of fun. By the way, does anyone have a Thinking Machines CM-2 desktop 6x6-inch aluminum cube promo model that they'd care to sell me? Cheers, Nick From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Jul 24 21:46:18 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen now...) References: Message-ID: <00ee01c114b3$fb2cc000$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all.... Well no news on when this will be in the paper yet but I am just praying it wont be a kinda headline like: SUBURBAN WEIRDO IS PILING UP OLD COMPUTERS IN BASEMENT - WIFE SAYS : "ITS ME OR THE MACHINES!!!" No I am just kidding, its a very serious well established french language newspaper with a large circulation here in Quebec....LaPresse...but when? If the pictures are bad (I had finished work very late that night and got 4 hours of sleep before reporter came) I wont talk about it ever again... They also interviewed a console collector friend.... The lady was in a hurry to meet me, I was told by the console collector friends the article was gonna go into the paper this week... They took quite a few pictures of me holding up a TRS80 MC-10 with a SuperPET in the background and all my selves and machines...the lady looked impressed but Its hard to make people who have not used computers extensively most of their lives, understand how you can get "excited" for this kinda stuff... Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Claude.W wrote: > > > An offer for an interview with a big Montreal newspaper... > > > > Photos and hour long interview about vintage computer collecting...show off > > a bit of the collection etc... > > Cool deal. > > > Lets see if this will bring in some rare finds/offers or just emails from > > people with 286s and XTs that will be asking $50 for them... > > You'll definitely get plenty of these, but you'll most likely also receive > some good offers. > > I usually steer the people with original IBM PC stuff to the list, > otherwise I suggest to them that they donate it to their local community > college so the students can use them for spare parts for various projects. > I no longer suggest Goodwill or Salvation Army as those orgs have stopped > taking old 80s era PCs. > > > By the way, I still have the tape of CBCs Undercurrents and their > > report on vintage computer collecting and hope to find a card to > > capture this and transfer it to .avi or similar and let you all have a > > chance at seeing this report...If anyone has a ATI capture card or > > similar I am open to offers.....I have an old Spigot card here for > > NUbus MAcs but doubt that will produce anything pleasant... > > I'm setup with a video capture board and can convert the tape pretty > readily. Send me a copy and I'll see about digitizing it when I get back > from VCF East. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Jul 24 21:50:27 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen References: Message-ID: <001d01c114b4$91733580$88711fd1@default> Here they sell complete 133 Compaq systems for $40 at auction all the time. You get a cpu, monitor, kb, and mouse. I have seen complete IBM 90's and 100's go for $1 per system with no takers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:32 PM Subject: RE: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > > Moore's metric, a computer's price is halved every 1.5 years. So that > > pentium 100Mhz laptop you paid 3000 for 6 years ago is now worth 750 or so > > NOT 1500. *sigh* Heck, I could get a 1ghz celeron desktop for that much! > > Not even that. A 100Mhz laptop should fetch no more than $100-$150 tops. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From Mzthompson at aol.com Tue Jul 24 21:47:13 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: EOM Clearance (aka free stuff in Indiana) Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001; "Jim Oaks" wrote: > Mike do you have any commodore,TI, related items? I was going to say no on both counts but then got to thinking, I may have 1 or more cassette cables for the TI/99. If there is any interest I will go digging sometime. As to Commodore, the answer is no. I could tell you the story of what would have amounted to truck loads of stuff that got away a couple years ago. But that would lead to depression for many list members, so I will refrain. Mike From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jul 24 21:50:49 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 24, 2001 10:45:16 PM Message-ID: <200107250250.f6P2onu03864@shell1.aracnet.com> > After connecting the VT320 to the VAX, I reset the system password. > Fortunately, this VAX has the "real VMS" (TM) for VAXen on it: > VAX/VMS, and it's a reasonably recent version: 5.5, which was close to > the lastest version of VMS back when I last worked with a VAX for an > employer, back around 1992. :-) Nothing wrong with newer versions, personally I prefer running 7.2 on my VAXen, though I do keep one at 5.5 for compiles. Still for systems without a lot of RAM V5.5-2 choice. > This far, I haven't noticed anything truly remarkable with regards to > software, although at first glance, it looks like nothing is missing. > Fortunately, someone installed kermit, so that will make things, > such as installing TCP/IP, easier. :-) You've a couple choices with VMS 5.5, the easiest is the freeware stack CMUIP, I used it before the V2 Hobbyist program. I'd recommend a TCPIP stack from Process software, one or both supports V5.5-2. > Also, there's a mention of SQL in one of the text files that I looked > through, although I didn't notice any database software installed; of > course, I don't know the names of databases using SQL for VAXen. Most likely either RDB or Oracle. > DECnet is installed and apparently configured, so I guess this means > that I can use my DEC terminal server with this machine... do I need > to do anything other than connect the terminal server to the VAX and > then use it? I know nothing about DECnet. Try saying 'connect {hostname}' on the terminal server, and see what happens. If that doesn't work, you might need to turn on the software that is needed for LAT. > Of course, there's still the little matter of no tape drive being > installed in this system, which is not a good thing. I have a TK70 > and a TK50, along with a TKQ70 board. What kind of disk interfaces does it have? For that matter, what model is this you're talking about? I never got a chance to look at the first message you posted on this system. Zane From lsprung at optonline.net Tue Jul 24 22:21:44 2001 From: lsprung at optonline.net (L. Sprung) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: I'm new to this list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello: I am new to this list, so let me introduce myself. I am interested in early scientific and computing history. As such, I collect early computing literature and scientific letters. I am also interested in scientific and engineering Instruments, original and patent models, literature and illustrations prior to the 19th century. The first computer I learned to program was a DIGIAC 3080, followed by an early WANG (I'd love to find them again), and then 360 assembler and PL/1. I am interested in purchasing early scientific equipment, advertising literature, electromechanical calculators, vintage computers (Imsai, Altair, TRS80, SOL, Digiac, Scelbi, SWTPC, PET, and many, many others) and associated literature. I prefer working examples, but please contact me with a description of what you have available. I'll pay shipping costs for items of interest or pick up from most areas in the eastern U.S. I look forward to participating on this list. Thank you for reading this. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Jul 24 22:19:40 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 24, 2001 07:50:49 PM Message-ID: <200107250319.f6P3Je705101@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Nothing wrong with newer versions, personally I prefer running 7.2 on my > VAXen, though I do keep one at 5.5 for compiles. Still for systems without > a lot of RAM V5.5-2 choice. I picked up a TZ867 yesterday and the cartridge library had what might be a TK50 distribution of V5.5-2H4. I'm going to check this week and if it is, I'm going to install it on a secondary drive. I seem to recall -2H4 is the earliest release that runs on the 4000/300. > > This far, I haven't noticed anything truly remarkable with regards to > > software, although at first glance, it looks like nothing is missing. > > Fortunately, someone installed kermit, so that will make things, > > such as installing TCP/IP, easier. :-) > > You've a couple choices with VMS 5.5, the easiest is the freeware stack > CMUIP, I used it before the V2 Hobbyist program. I'd recommend a TCPIP > stack from Process software, one or both supports V5.5-2. I prefer Multinet. > > DECnet is installed and apparently configured, so I guess this means > > that I can use my DEC terminal server with this machine... do I need > > to do anything other than connect the terminal server to the VAX and > > then use it? I know nothing about DECnet. > > Try saying 'connect {hostname}' on the terminal server, and see what > happens. If that doesn't work, you might need to turn on the software that > is needed for LAT. The configuration needs to be checked before connecting to the network if you've got any other systems running DECnet to make sure there are no conflicts. As for the termina server, are you wanting to connect a serial port on the terminal server to the console port on the VAX or do you want to connect the terminal to a serial port on the terminal server and connect to the VAX over the network? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From terryc at woa.com.au Tue Jul 24 22:38:36 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: scanner repairs Message-ID: <3B5E3F3C.F49C9FBD@woa.com.au> Does anyone have an online resources for scanner repairs? -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From liste at artware.qc.ca Tue Jul 24 22:57:52 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: IBM-PC keyboards Message-ID: I picked up an IBM keyboard at the Village des valeurs on saturday. It has nice tactile feedback, no vanity keys and takes up less desk space then my aged Keytronics. Cool. However, it "doesn't work". When I plug it in and start the computer, all 3 leds go on, then NumLock goes off and nothing responds as I would expect (caps, scroll, del to get into bios, ctrl-a for adaptec scsi monitor) I was under the impression that there were 2 types of keyboards for clones: PC/XT and AT keyboards. This keyboard has a PS/2 style miniDIN-6 connector (though I now notice it doesn't have the rectangular plug in the middlish that my other keyboards do), so I assumed it would be AT and therefore compatible with modern motherboards. No luck :( Looking on the bottom I see : Part No : 1395300 IBM ID No : 2117313 Date : 12-05-1992 (C) IBM Corp. 1984 Plt. No. : WP1 Model : M2 Made in USA [bar code] 1395300112117313 So, do I have a defective keyboard? Or is this not even a PC keyboard but for some other piece of equipement? -Philip From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Tue Jul 24 23:03:56 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Big newspaper interview for me! (lets see whats gonna happen In-Reply-To: <009701c1148f$f646d2c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On 24-Jul-2001 John Allain wrote: > > It's worse than your think: > 6/1.5 = 4 > 2^4 = 16 > 3000/16 = $187.50 oooo eek! Bad math in the morning, it seems. -Philip From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 25 00:01:59 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > But, I think even more scarce is my Hayes Transet 1000 Mailbox - circa > > 1985 - which I had not even heard of until I picked it up at a swap > > some months back. > > Oooh, interesting. More details, please :) Don't have a manual, therefore, don't have much. However, the following ASCII clips may help:  985 BY HARMONY SYSTEMS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: Th is code contains Confidential information or Trade Secrets, or both, which is th e property of Harmony Systems, Inc. This code may not be copied, reproduced, re duced to any electronic medium or machine readable form or otherwise duplicated and the information herein may not be used, dissiminated or otherwise disclosed, except with the prior written consent of Harmony Systems, Inc. ???????????????? :)TCENNOCSID OT D-LRTC( DROWSSAP RETNE ------- XOBLIAM 0001 TESNART ------- DROWSSAP TCERROCNI ROF XOBLIAM NI MOOR SI EREHT :)MEDOMX ROF A-LRTC( NOISSIMSNART TRATS )NACS TIXE OT D-LRTC RETNE( XOBLIAM NI )S(METI A?? .DETCENNOCSID A? LLUF SI XOBLIAM .DEDNE EGASSEM A? .YTPME SI XOBLIAM A?? .LIAM EROM ON A?? .NIAGA YRT ,DNAMMOC DILAVNI KCA(B DRAWRO(F ESAR(E TNIR(P WEI(V > ?,|Sellam Ismail =?`?N?aVintage ??Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ?e?International Man ?b??of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From donm at cts.com Wed Jul 25 00:07:07 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > But, I think even more scarce is my Hayes Transet 1000 Mailbox - circa > > 1985 - which I had not even heard of until I picked it up at a swap > > some months back. > > Oooh, interesting. More details, please :) Lacking a manual, the following ASCII segments may help. - don  985 BY HARMONY SYSTEMS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION: Th is code contains Confidential information or Trade Secrets, or both, which is th e property of Harmony Systems, Inc. This code may not be copied, reproduced, re duced to any electronic medium or machine readable form or otherwise duplicated and the information herein may not be used, dissiminated or otherwise disclosed, except with the prior written consent of Harmony Systems, Inc. ???????????????? :)TCENNOCSID OT D-LRTC( DROWSSAP RETNE ------- XOBLIAM 0001 TESNART ------- DROWSSAP TCERROCNI A???)H$| ROF XOBLIAM NI MOOR SI EREHT  :)MEDOMX ROF A-LRTC( NOISSIMSNART TRATS .SRETCARAHC EROM A???)H$| @(p@NuA??w)H$| )NACS TIXE OT D-LRTC RETNE( XOBLIAM NI )S(METI A???)H$| .DETCENNOCSID A???)H$| LLUF SI XOBLIAM .DEDNE EGASSEM A???)H$| .YTPME SI XOBLIAM A???)H$| .LIAM EROM ON A???)H$| .NIAGA YRT ,DNAMMOC DILAVNI KCA(B DRAWRO(F ESAR(E TNIR(P WEI(V > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Jul 25 00:05:01 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: WTB: Epson HX-40 in working order Message-ID: <200107250509.f6P596514253@grover.winsite.com> Hey, group. A friend of mine just acquired one of those big programmable highway emergency signs (the one with the little flourescent flip segments). It works, except the computer that runs it is flaky on a good day. It's an Epson HX-40 with a cassette interface that connects to the sign-control circuitry, running a proprietary control app. Anybody here have one in good working order that they wouldn't mind parting with? Let me know. Thanks! Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 25 00:16:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: <20010724174825.98649.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: Anybody familiar with a "magazine" called 2600? From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Wed Jul 25 00:50:32 2001 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Boot disk for Apple IIc+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c114cd$b7b92560$6501a8c0@bc.hsia.telus.net> Rich Beaudry asked > > Does anyone have, or know where I can get a 3.5" boot disk for an Apple > IIc+? I have an old ProDOS 5.25" disk, but it does not recognize the 3.5" > disk. Boot disks for the Apple II series of computers are available for $2 in either 3.5" or 5.25" format from: http://www.a2central.com/ The "order form" is at: http://www.a2central.com/stuff/applesoftware/orderform.html From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jul 25 01:43:39 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:01 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 08:51:17PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20010724234339.A29342@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 08:51:17PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > Years ago, an associate configured a Quark for external terminal. (Quark > > was a tiny 80x86 PC compatible computer like the Ampro little board or PMC > > that could fit comfortably into a drive case along with a half height > > drive) > > > > We joked about using an Apple as the terminal. Then we could sell the > > machine as a "drive" for Apple that would let it run PC software, since > > many Apple users wouldn't know or understand that the Apple was only > > acting as the terminal, and that the computer was in the drive case. > > There was a thing sold in the UK called a Torch Graduate. It was an > add-on for the BBC micro that was essentially a complete PC motherboard > (8088) + a few interface chips and a BBC Micro ROM. It also had 2 > built-in 5.25" drives, It ran MS-DOS (IIRC the normal PC version) The BBC > was used as the keyboard and video display only for a PC system... How is this different from the BBC Master 512K (or whatever the PC-compatible second processor was)? Did the Torch Graduate use the Tube? Just in case anyone doesn't know... The normal system bus on the BBC runs at 1 MHz which is only half the CPU speed. The Tube runs at 2 MHz and is designed to be connected (through a semi-custom Acorn chip, some cables, and a matching chip) to one of a number of "second processor" units. It's basically the arrangement Tony and the original poster describe, but the units are bigger than a disk drive, and the BBC may do more of the work than a typical terminal. -- Derek From spc at conman.org Wed Jul 25 02:17:20 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 24, 2001 10:16:01 PM Message-ID: <200107250717.DAA18700@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Mike Ford once stated: > > Anybody familiar with a "magazine" called 2600? Yes. What do you want to know? -spc (And yes, it fits the 10 year rule, having starting in either 1984 or 1987, I don't recall the exact year ... ) From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jul 25 02:27:17 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Cipher F880 Docs In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513C2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <200107250727.JAA03465@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 24 Jul, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Was someone here looking for the Cipher F880 docs? That was'nt me, but as I own a Cipher F880 too, I am also interrested. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From hansp at aconit.org Wed Jul 25 03:25:43 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: [OT] Re: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? References: Message-ID: <3B5E8287.95667189@aconit.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > > Of course, two seconds in the microwave on "high" completely destroys > > them *all*! > > Some people have crumbs in their microwave ovens (I do). Tim apparently > has melted plastic and resin compounds in his, with probably smoke > streaks. > > I'd hate to cook a meal in your kitchen :) Reminds me of a former colleauge who was potting some electronic module in Epoxy. The instructions stated to cure in an oven for some number of hours. He figured that a few minutes in the microwave ought to to the trick so off he went to the kitchen. (No no-one asked him whether the microwaves might affect the electronic vcomponents!) The interaction of epoxy and microwaves must be quite interesting. Apparently there was a loud bang and the inside of the microwave was covered in a thin layer of perfectly cured black epoxy. Time to go off to the store for an new microwave before the wife finds out! -- HBP > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 03:46:06 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws References: <200107250717.DAA18700@conman.org> Message-ID: <00a101c114e6$3ecde8c0$e3b0b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > It was thus said that the Great Mike Ford once stated: > > > > Anybody familiar with a "magazine" called 2600? > > Yes. What do you want to know? > > -spc (And yes, it fits the 10 year rule, having starting in > either 1984 or 1987, I don't recall the exact year ... ) > I have heard that "2600" refers to the approx. frequency of a Cap'n Crunch cereal toy whistle that could be used to hack the phone system in tye early 70s. Any truth to this? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 25 04:17:55 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: <200107250717.DAA18700@conman.org> References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 24, 2001 10:16:01 PM Message-ID: >> Anybody familiar with a "magazine" called 2600? > > Yes. What do you want to know? One of my friends is thinking of going back into the publishing business as a competitor. I was just curious about the general content etc. He dropped out of doing it a few years ago due to sleazy distributors, but says the situation is better now. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com Wed Jul 25 04:29:47 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 M38 In-Reply-To: from "liste@artware.qc.ca" at "Jul 24, 2001 11:57:52 pm" Message-ID: <200107250929.f6P9TlT20634@bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com> I just worked to assemble my Vaxstation 3100 M38 I get the following errors at power up test: F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...6...4...3_..2_..1... I know the 3_ 2_ means not tested... any info on the following minor errors... ?E 0040 0000.0005 ?B 0010 0020.0081 ?6 80A1 0000.4001 ?4 00D0 0007.0213 SHOW DEV shows VAX/VMS Ultrix Addr DEVTYP NUMBYTES RM/FX DEVNAM REV DKA300 RZ3 A/3/0/00 DISK 52.4 MB FX RZ22 0A18 DKA500 RZ5 A/5/0/00 DISK ........ RM RX23 0054 SHO MEM returns 02000000 00000000 008000000:00BFFFFF 01FE08000:01FFFFFF The earlier memory (I swapped in what I figure was a larger dataram expansion board) was 0013FFFF so I guess I'm doing ok on the memory. (My 11/780 days ran on 4mb and 8mb machines under VMS 2.x and 3.x to 4.2. I assume the current hobbiest distribution will work ok in this memory size...) The earlier configuration responds to show mem with: 01400000 00000000 013E2000:013FFFFF I saw one DEC 4mb memory board and a Dataram board with what looks like 24mb of 1mb chips... 9 chipsx12 rows/board side on the board I put in. The Full Dataram board is marked 16730-50 40967 Rev F. The partial populated is marked 63104 E1 40968 Rev E. Just by chip count I figure I've got an 16mb board and a 4mb DEC board in there and had a 4 and 8mb set earlier. Can anyone confirm this. I'm going to drop in a 1gb disk instead of the RZ22 the other Vaxstation (parts donor) had an RZ23L... Should I keep either of these for swap use or just put it all (VMS) on one or two larger drives? I may throw a disk in for *BSD as well... I assume I can boot either drive. Bill From als at thangorodrim.de Wed Jul 25 05:19:41 2001 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: <00a101c114e6$3ecde8c0$e3b0b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net>; from wmsmith@earthlink.net on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 01:46:06AM -0700 References: <200107250717.DAA18700@conman.org> <00a101c114e6$3ecde8c0$e3b0b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010725121941.A19937@frodo> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 01:46:06AM -0700, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > It was thus said that the Great Mike Ford once stated: > > > > > > Anybody familiar with a "magazine" called 2600? > > > > Yes. What do you want to know? > > > > -spc (And yes, it fits the 10 year rule, having starting > in > > either 1984 or 1987, I don't recall the exact year ... ) > > > I have heard that "2600" refers to the approx. frequency of > a Cap'n Crunch cereal toy whistle that could be used to hack > the phone system in tye early 70s. Any truth to this? Yes. More correctly, the 2600 refers to the 2600 Hz signalling tone used in the old (before going digital) telephone network. And by coincidence, a toy whistle contained in a series of "Captain Crunch" cereal boxes was producing exactly the same frequency. The guy first finding this out then went by the nickname "Captain Crunch". And the name of the magazine 2600, "The Hacker Quarterly" is derived from this. Regards, Alex. -- We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being increasingly capable. -- Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Jul 25 06:40:11 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 M38 In-Reply-To: <200107250929.f6P9TlT20634@bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <200107251140.NAA03929@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 25 Jul, Bill Pechter wrote: > I get the following errors at power up test: > > F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...6...4...3_..2_..1... > > I know the 3_ 2_ means not tested... any info on the following minor > errors... On http://www.bsdfans.org/ is a description of the Startup-messages of a VAXstation 3100. > ?E 0040 0000.0005 > ?B 0010 0020.0081 > ?6 80A1 0000.4001 > ?4 00D0 0007.0213 E CLK TOY clock battery low? B MEM Memory ??? 6 SCSI-A SCSI-Controller B (Maionboard or daughtercard) Not terminated? No devices found? 4 8PLN Option module (8 plane graphics) No (proper terminated) monitor connected? (Yes, that can be detected.) > I'm going to drop in a 1gb disk You may have problems booting from disks > 1GB, depending on the PROM version. So this may be an issue if your disk is 1GB + a few kB. > I may throw a disk in for *BSD as well... I assume I can boot either > drive. Should work. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp124.monmouth.com Wed Jul 25 07:53:48 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp124.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 3100 M38 In-Reply-To: <200107251140.NAA03929@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de" at "Jul 25, 2001 01:40:11 pm" Message-ID: <200107251253.f6PCrme21495@bg-tc-ppp124.monmouth.com> > On 25 Jul, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > I get the following errors at power up test: > > > > F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...6...4...3_..2_..1... > > > > I know the 3_ 2_ means not tested... any info on the following minor > > errors... > On http://www.bsdfans.org/ is a description of the Startup-messages of > a VAXstation 3100. > > > ?E 0040 0000.0005 > > ?B 0010 0020.0081 > > ?6 80A1 0000.4001 > > ?4 00D0 0007.0213 > E CLK TOY clock > battery low? OK... probably battery doggone near dead. I'm formating a DSP3105 now which should give some charge time. > > B MEM Memory > ??? > > 6 SCSI-A SCSI-Controller B (Maionboard or daughtercard) > Not terminated? No devices found? There's a terminator and no devices on the External SCSI b at this time. > > 4 8PLN Option module (8 plane graphics) > No (proper terminated) monitor connected? (Yes, that can be detected.) > Hmm... I've got a mono monitor hooked to the green BNC... that makes some sense. > > I'm going to drop in a 1gb disk > You may have problems booting from disks > 1GB, depending on the PROM > version. So this may be an issue if your disk is 1GB + a few kB. I've got the 1.05GB for the VAX/VMS boot disk so I should be ok... I can always netboot the NetBSD over mop. I've got some small 450 mb SCSI's and some 1.0 gb 5 1/4 SCSIs... So I should be ok. > > I may throw a disk in for *BSD as well... I assume I can boot either > > drive. > Should work. > > tsch??, > Jochen > Thanks. Bill > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > > --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jul 25 09:01:05 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > But, I think even more scarce is my Hayes Transet 1000 Mailbox - circa > 1985 - which I had not even heard of until I picked it up at a swap some > months back. Don, if it's in the same "stack" style case, wanna part with it? :) I'm trying to complete my collection. I need the 1200 and 2400 baud modems too. :) g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jul 25 09:13:19 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: More for the Hayes Chronograph In-Reply-To: <20010724201924.8789.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > spttim10.aqm B 5120 850209 Time support package for DC Hayes Chronograph > Ethan, this file is just a compressed .asm file. You need an un-squeeze utility to open it. unsq or nulu should do it. g. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 09:23:46 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: WTB: Epson HX-40 in working order In-Reply-To: <200107250509.f6P596514253@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <20010725142346.91587.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Paul Braun wrote: > Hey, group. > > A friend of mine just acquired one of those big programmable > highway emergency signs (the one with the little flourescent flip > segments). Does the Highway Department know? ;-) I've always wanted to play with that sort of thing. The flippy segments are cool, but several square feet of LEDs is cool, too. I wouldn't do it with a mechanical display, but an electronic one would make a cool binary clock. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jul 25 09:47:10 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great mag. :) g. On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Anybody familiar with a "magazine" called 2600? > > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Jul 25 09:58:14 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: hope to find paper tape reader at VCF East In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513C2@jeffserver.tegjeff. com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010725095814.0089da90@ubanproductions.com> One of the things that I would like to find at VCF East is a paper tape reader. Preferably something small that I can either connect to a serial port, or interface to a parallel port. I will also be looking for interesting peripherals for my PDP 11/45... --tom From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Wed Jul 25 10:15:55 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: WTB: Epson HX-40 in working order Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D24@BUSH02> Hi Ethan, --- Paul Braun wrote: > Hey, group. > > A friend of mine just acquired one of those big programmable > highway emergency signs (the one with the little flourescent flip > segments). Does the Highway Department know? ;-) I've always wanted to play with that sort of thing. The flippy segments are cool, but several square feet of LEDs is cool, too. I wouldn't do it with a mechanical display, but an electronic one would make a cool binary clock. If you want lots of lights get an old electronic fruit machine (bandit). I was given one as scrap and it has over 400 12v bulbs (standard car instrument lights) in a matrix with the driver cards. Very pretty Xmas lights. Cheers, Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Jul 25 10:21:33 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: <3B5E19C3.70D9EF6B@idirect.com>; from jhfine@idirect.com on Tue, Jul 24, 2001 at 08:58:43PM -0400 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010724173836.02fdeef0@pc> <3B5E19C3.70D9EF6B@idirect.com> Message-ID: <20010725102132.C2223959@uiuc.edu> Jerome Fine said: > > I don't know about retention, but I expect I will be making a backup of the > long term files about every one or two years. Does anyone know how I > might test a magneto optical cartridge for long term degradation? Also, > if I can read the cartridge, does that indicate it is as good as when it > was written or should it always be written again after 5 years just to be > sure? Well, I don't know for sure, but I expect they're pretty good. I know of a local company that has ~1TB of records dating back many years on MO media, and they use them regularly (as I understand it, anyway; I don't actually work there) so the data's probably pretty stable... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jul 25 10:30:32 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: VCFE Shopping List Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BD6@MAIL10> I posted my shopping list on http://www.vintage.org I have to be careful...whatever I get I have to sneak into the house :-) Two things I left off of my list were a DecWriter III (too big to sneak in) and a 22U rack cabinet with a glass front door (also too big to sneak in). "No, honey, really. I didn't buy anything more than this t-shirt." Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Jul 25 10:28:12 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It features John Draper (a.k.a. Cap'n Crunch, a.k.a. freaky weirdo whom > you should cross the street to avoid), Steve Wozniak, and Kevin Mitnick. > Why Woz is included in this group is not entirely clear, but the producers > of the show are British, so that could explain things :) I thought it was a great show! But I must admit I missed the first part, and didn't come in until they showed the Altair, the Sol, the Pet, and talked to Lee Felsenstein. Did anyone in the UK happen to tape it? I would have if I'd known it was on! Here's the Channel 4 link: http://www.channel4.com/plus/sh01/hackers1.html > It has a lot to do with the blue box of course, Not just any blue box, but Woz's very own, original blue box. > As great as it is, Junkyard Wars Is it just me, or could you imagine Tony Duell's team on a high-tech version of Scrapheap Challenge/Junkyard Wars, building a PDP-11 out of whatever they can find lying around? Then toggling in the bootstrap... -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 25 10:08:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: WTB: Epson HX-40 in working order In-Reply-To: <200107250509.f6P596514253@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Paul Braun wrote: > A friend of mine just acquired one of those big programmable highway > emergency signs (the one with the little flourescent flip segments). > It works, except the computer that runs it is flaky on a good day. > It's an Epson HX-40 with a cassette interface that connects to the > sign-control circuitry, running a proprietary control app. Hey, I want one! (the sign, not the computer :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 25 10:14:31 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > One of my friends is thinking of going back into the publishing > business as a competitor. I was just curious about the general content > etc. He dropped out of doing it a few years ago due to sleazy > distributors, but says the situation is better now. Really, we don't need another 2600. 2600 is bad enough. A bunch of adolecents writing about mostly inane "hacks" being run by folks who never made it out of adolescence. Have you ever read the letters section? I fear for the future of our beloved America :) At least I don't have to pay for my subscription... Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 25 10:20:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, John Honniball wrote: > Not just any blue box, but Woz's very own, original blue box. Which I got to hold (and I had the whole world in my hands :) (brownie points for anyone getting that reference ;) > Is it just me, or could you imagine Tony Duell's team on a high-tech > version of Scrapheap Challenge/Junkyard Wars, building a PDP-11 out of > whatever they can find lying around? Then toggling in the > bootstrap... I've actually been machinating such an event for the VCF. Not this year, but for next year. A heap of old computers of all kinds in various states of disassembly or completeness is thrown into a couple piles, and each team has to assemble a working computer out of the parts. Imagine a PDP 11/34 CPU with a TRS-80 keyboard, an Apple ][ disk drive and a C64 motherboard with CRT for a terminal interface :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jul 25 10:29:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: <20010725121941.A19937@frodo> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > Yes. More correctly, the 2600 refers to the 2600 Hz signalling tone > used in the old (before going digital) telephone network. And by > coincidence, a toy whistle contained in a series of "Captain Crunch" > cereal boxes was producing exactly the same frequency. The guy first > finding this out then went by the nickname "Captain Crunch". More specifically, the 2600Hz tone enabled you to "seize" a "trunk". A "trunk" is basically a line at the central office going out into the rest of the network. The easiest way was to call an 800 number (a free call, and you were always guaranteed a trunk) and then blast the 2600Hz tone. You would then get a supervisory tone (like a dial tone). You would then use MF (like DTMF but it used different frequencies) to dial a sequence to connect you to where you wanted to go. There were also special tones, like KP (keypulse) and ST (start), which were sort of like protocol markers. KP meant you were starting a destination address, ST meant to route you to that destination. So you would dial KP + + ST and off the call would go. If you knew enough, you could connect yourself to various internal telco operators and find out all sorts of cool stuff. You could also connect yourself to operators in foreign countries and then snoop around their networks. One of Wozniak's more famous stories is calling the Pope by BSing his way through their operators (I think he was pretending to be Henry Kissinger). John Draper used to setup calls from one payphone, route it through various telcos around the world, then back to another payphone next to the one he was at, so that he could say a word into one payphone and hear it come out the other a few seconds later :) I wish the phone networks were still that much fun. Nowadays, all signalling is out-of-band, being handled on a separate X.25 packet network (SS7). You can get an SS7 drop to your business (maybe even your house) but you'd have to pay for it, so any snooping would be on your dime :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 25 11:58:09 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not sure if it's possible for four people to build a PDP-11 out of garbage in less than ten hours. Given a couple of days in a proper computer graveyard, maybe. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, John Honniball wrote: > Is it just me, or could you imagine Tony Duell's team on a > high-tech version of Scrapheap Challenge/Junkyard Wars, > building a PDP-11 out of whatever they can find lying > around? Then toggling in the bootstrap... From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 25 11:59:33 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 2600 and Phrack are garbage. The best place to learn good hacks is your local chapter of ACM. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > One of my friends is thinking of going back into the publishing > > business as a competitor. I was just curious about the general content > > etc. He dropped out of doing it a few years ago due to sleazy > > distributors, but says the situation is better now. > > Really, we don't need another 2600. 2600 is bad enough. A bunch of > adolecents writing about mostly inane "hacks" being run by folks who never > made it out of adolescence. Have you ever read the letters section? I > fear for the future of our beloved America :) > > At least I don't have to pay for my subscription... > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jul 25 12:41:43 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010725122504.J3478-100000@localhost> On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Anybody familiar with a "magazine" called 2600? Quite a few articles I find to be a bit childish, obvious, or not what I would classify as 'hacking', but I still find it entertaining. I've read every issue for the last few years. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From marino13 at btinternet.com Wed Jul 25 13:03:45 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (Shaun Stephenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! References: Message-ID: <3B5F0A01.E66FA8C8@btinternet.com> Hi all! Introductions seem like a good idea! I'm also new to the list... how did I miss it all this time?! Anyway I'm in the UK so therefore my collection is mainly micro-related stuff (you know the score - 64, Vic20, Speccy, Vectrex, Odyssey/G7000, many Pong type consoles, 2600/7800, ZX80/81, Camputers, Sharp, etc etc as well as tabletop LCD games, game n watch etc). I work in games development as an artist at EA (no no - don't "BOO" me!!!) working on PS2 (urgh!). Right now I'm desperately looking for a good nick Commodore Pet and an Apple II setup if anyone can offer me one (UK referred to save on shipping costs). Nice to be in a new community - you guys certainly seem to collect way different stuff to the UK guys! Shaun "L. Sprung" wrote: > Hello: > > I am new to this list, so let me introduce myself. I am interested in early > scientific and computing history. As such, I collect early computing > literature and scientific letters. I am also interested in scientific and > engineering Instruments, original and patent models, literature and > illustrations prior to the 19th century. The first computer I learned to > program was a DIGIAC 3080, followed by an early WANG (I'd love to find them > again), and then 360 assembler and PL/1. I am interested in purchasing early > scientific equipment, advertising literature, electromechanical calculators, > vintage computers (Imsai, Altair, TRS80, SOL, Digiac, Scelbi, SWTPC, PET, > and many, many others) and associated literature. I prefer working examples, > but please contact me with a description of what you have available. I'll > pay shipping costs for items of interest or pick up from most areas in the > eastern U.S. I look forward to participating on this list. Thank you for > reading this. From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Jul 25 13:16:49 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010724173836.02fdeef0@pc> <3B5E19C3.70D9EF6B@idirect.com> <20010725102132.C2223959@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <3B5F0D11.92EA3079@idirect.com> >Dan Wright wrote: > Jerome Fine said: > > I don't know about retention, but I expect I will be making a backup of the > > long term files about every one or two years. Does anyone know how I > > might test a magneto optical cartridge for long term degradation? Also, > > if I can read the cartridge, does that indicate it is as good as when it > > was written or should it always be written again after 5 years just to be > > sure? > Well, I don't know for sure, but I expect they're pretty good. I know of a > local company that has ~1TB of records dating back many years on MO media, and > they use them regularly (as I understand it, anyway; I don't actually work > there) so the data's probably pretty stable... Jerome Fine replies: I guess the key question is: "How does a user evaluate the longevity of any particular media?" It seems unlikely that the microwave is a good fit for testing magneto optical media. On the other hand, I would like to have some sort of idea as to how long I can expect any files to still be readable? Also, how long is it likely that the magneto optical drive will last. I suspect that the drives are likely to fail before the media and it may even be more likely that I will not be able to find a system that is able to use both the old drives and the newest drives when it comes time to switching to a newer type. So the next question is: "What sort of strategy is recommended to always be sure that old files (stored on old media which can only be read with old drives) be rescued/copied to newer media before that is no longer possible?" Obviously, every user would like to skip as many in-between steps as possible. But since safety is perhaps more important, where should the compromise be made? Another question is: "What standard needs to be used to determine what files may be of interest in 50 years, 500 years or even 5000 years?" And realize that is probably THREE SEPARATE questions!! It is fine to be discussing the technical details of how to save files, but if everything needs to be saved, that creates many difficulties. For example, if some software is being developed, it's rare that non-distribution files ever see the light of day, much less that they get saved beyond the next distribution. In most cases, only the final source and executable files get saved and it is probably rare for OBJ and MAP files to be saved. What is the best way to develop criteria that can determine which files will be of interest to someone looking to understand how "programs" were written 5000 years ago? Better still would be to attempt to determine the questions that will be asked 5000 years from now. Looking back, I would suggest that the first footstep on the Moon back in 1969 may not have been as important as the technology that was needed to make it all possible. I realize that this seems Off Topic, but I think it is already past due that we think about not only which hardware needs to be preserved, but also all the software. So much that is more than 20 years old has already been lost. But if a start is made right now to preserve both hardware and software, then for software the questions are very different than for hardware! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 25 13:27:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws References: <20010725122504.J3478-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <003f01c11537$66d05b40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> A lot of the stuff that WOZ did back before the Apple was realized were what one might consider "childish" as well. They were somewhat questionable, not only in their usefulness but also in their legality. They were acts expressing his curiosity and what grew out of that general attitude of inquisitiveness was positive and mature, even if those early techno-experiments were bordring on vandalism. What's good is that he went on to do something positive with what he learned. Lots of youngsters do the naughty things they do while no positive results are forthcoming because they aren't willing to do the work. There's often serious learning hidden in the stuff they do, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > Anybody familiar with a "magazine" called 2600? > > Quite a few articles I find to be a bit childish, obvious, or not what I > would classify as 'hacking', but I still find it entertaining. I've read > every issue for the last few years. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Jul 25 13:33:40 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: what the hell. Message-ID: <20010725133340.A2228893@uiuc.edu> Well, even though I've already posted a couple times, I too am new to the list and thought I'd chime in. I live and work in champaign-urbana, IL, and mostly collect old UNIX machines -- I have a couple HP 735's, an HP 425/t, HP 300, sun sparc 2, 5, and 20, an RS/6000, and some other crap. Oooo yeah, I got a textronix model 31 electronic calculator recently, but haven't done anything interesting with it yet -- I just know that it works. If anyone has tapes for it, let me know, that would be fun to mess around with... I've known about this list for a while, and just finally got around to signing up a few days ago -- damn laziness :) Later, - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 25 13:51:46 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <3B5F0A01.E66FA8C8@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Pleased to meet you. Good thing you didn't put a slash in "PS2" or this message would have been a flame 8-). BTW, just so you know, I collect PS/2s and other IBM MCA boxes, as well as DEC VAX and PMAX systems. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Shaun Stephenson wrote: > Hi all! > Introductions seem like a good idea! > > I'm also new to the list... how did I miss it all this time?! > > Anyway I'm in the UK so therefore my collection is mainly micro-related stuff > (you know the score - 64, Vic20, Speccy, Vectrex, Odyssey/G7000, many Pong type > consoles, 2600/7800, ZX80/81, Camputers, Sharp, etc etc as well as tabletop LCD > games, game n watch etc). > I work in games development as an artist at EA (no no - don't "BOO" me!!!) > working on PS2 (urgh!). > > Right now I'm desperately looking for a good nick Commodore Pet and an Apple II > setup if anyone can offer me one (UK referred to save on shipping costs). > > Nice to be in a new community - you guys certainly seem to collect way different > stuff to the UK guys! > > Shaun > From marino13 at btinternet.com Wed Jul 25 13:56:51 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (Shaun Stephenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! References: Message-ID: <3B5F1673.36F72638@btinternet.com> Haha - well I felt a bit bad about swearing on teh list anyway so sorry to all! :-) No more mention of "modern junk" I promise! Master of all that Sucks wrote: > Pleased to meet you. Good thing you didn't put a slash in "PS2" or this > message would have been a flame 8-). BTW, just so you know, I collect > PS/2s and other IBM MCA boxes, as well as DEC VAX and PMAX systems. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Shaun Stephenson wrote: > > > Hi all! > > Introductions seem like a good idea! > > > > I'm also new to the list... how did I miss it all this time?! > > > > Anyway I'm in the UK so therefore my collection is mainly micro-related stuff > > (you know the score - 64, Vic20, Speccy, Vectrex, Odyssey/G7000, many Pong type > > consoles, 2600/7800, ZX80/81, Camputers, Sharp, etc etc as well as tabletop LCD > > games, game n watch etc). > > I work in games development as an artist at EA (no no - don't "BOO" me!!!) > > working on PS2 (urgh!). > > > > Right now I'm desperately looking for a good nick Commodore Pet and an Apple II > > setup if anyone can offer me one (UK referred to save on shipping costs). > > > > Nice to be in a new community - you guys certainly seem to collect way different > > stuff to the UK guys! > > > > Shaun > > From jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu Wed Jul 25 14:04:17 2001 From: jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: swap some coco software??? In-Reply-To: <001601c0fab9$0307a3e0$8862d6d1@DOMAIN>; from dogas@bellsouth.net on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 09:16:47PM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010621190928.00a1d930@mailhost.intellistar.net> <01db01c0fb19$a50fbc80$898953d1@jay> <001601c0fab9$0307a3e0$8862d6d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20010725140417.B2409@mastif> Hello - I would be interested in a copy of OS9, C and PASCAL. I'm also looking for a version of FORTH to run on my coco. John On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 09:16:47PM -0400, Mike wrote: > I've been digging through my coco stuff to supply some software for an ebay > sale and came across some good stuff.... OS9(L2), C, EDTASM, BASIC09, > PASCAL, DYNACALC, MULTIVUE, T/S EDIT/WORD/SPELL, etc... I'm willing to make > a few copies should anyone need anything. And... > > Does anyone have a FORTH or other unmentioned languages for OS-9? > > Cheers > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > -- ************************************************************************ * * * * John Ott * Email: jott@hamming.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * Fax: (219) 631-9924 * * * * ************************************************************************ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 25 14:02:16 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Warning OT.. Humor Thermodynamic Question........ Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010725150122.00a63d90@mailhost.intellistar.net> > >THERMODYNAMICS OF HELL --A little "levity" for today. > > The following is an actual exam question given on a University of >Washington chemistry mid term. The answer by one student was so "profound" >that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, >of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well. > > Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic >(absorbs heat)? > > Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, >(gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some >variant. One student, however, wrote the following "First, we need to >know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate >that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think >that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. >Therefore; no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, >lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. > >Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their >religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these >religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can >project that most souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they >are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. > >Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's >Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay >the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are >added. > >This gives two possibilities > 1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls >enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until >all Hell breaks loose. > > 2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls >in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. > > So which is it? > > If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman >year, "...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you.", >and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having >that event take place, then, #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that >Hell is exothermic and will not freeze." > >**The student received the only "A" given.** From Daniel.Segel at wcom.com Wed Jul 25 14:37:31 2001 From: Daniel.Segel at wcom.com (Daniel A. Segel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010725121806.00a30760@pop.wcomnet.com> Here's the deal: I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything works fine and the PC will boot up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can navigate around and look at all the files, etc. The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the 360K floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost full.) There are three ways I can imagine doing this: 1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it to my home network, 2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running off a more modern controller (IDE?), 3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC. I've been trying to get option 3 to work for a week now, but I'm not having any luck. Any tips? I'm currently trying to get the DTC controller to work in an old EISA 486 with a 1992 AMI BIOS, but I keep getting a "HDD Controller failure" message. I've tried it both with the controllers BIOS enabled and disabled. If the BIOS is enabled, it puts up a message saying "1 hard disk" right before the other error - this is the same message I see on the PC right before it starts booting. So I know the controller itself is "working", but it's not being recognized by the BIOS. I'm not sure what's going on. Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive? Should I try another MFM controller? Daniel -- Daniel A. Segel WorldCom Employee Systems User Support Phone: 916-373-4810; Vnet: 653-4810; Pager: 888-783-5951; AIM: DanSegel From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Jul 25 14:51:02 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <3B5F0A01.E66FA8C8@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Shaun wrote: [snip] > I work in games development as an artist at EA (no no - don't "BOO" me!!!) > working on PS2 (urgh!). [snip] "Urgh!"? As one of the collection of nutbars who lead the engineering effort for CPU2 I think I've just been insulted :-) In my defense all I can say is the SCE was responsible for all of those weird integer instructions and the semi-brain-damaged floating point format. Honest. It wasn't our fault. Really! Cheers, Chris. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 25 15:01:57 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010725121806.00a30760@pop.wcomnet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010725155754.009d1640@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:37 PM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: >Here's the deal: > >I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a >Data Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything >works fine and the PC will boot up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can >navigate around and look at all the files, etc. > >The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the >360K floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is >almost full.) > >There are three ways I can imagine doing this: > >1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it >to my home network, >2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running off a more modern >controller (IDE?), >3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC. > >I've been trying to get option 3 to work for a week now, but I'm not >having any luck. Any tips? I'm currently trying to get the DTC controller >to work in an old EISA 486 with a 1992 AMI BIOS, but I keep getting a "HDD >Controller failure" message. I've tried it both with the controllers BIOS >enabled and disabled. If the BIOS is enabled, it puts up a message saying >"1 hard disk" right before the other error - this is the same message I >see on the PC right before it starts booting. > >So I know the controller itself is "working", but it's not being >recognized by the BIOS. I'm not sure what's going on. > >Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive? How about LapLink or FastLynx? I've used both of them A LOT and they work great for situations like this. Joe > Should I try another MFM controller? > >Daniel >-- >Daniel A. Segel >WorldCom >Employee Systems User Support >Phone: 916-373-4810; Vnet: 653-4810; Pager: 888-783-5951; AIM: DanSegel From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 15:09:45 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010725121806.00a30760@pop.wcomnet.com> Message-ID: <20010725200945.97422.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Daniel A. Segel" wrote: > Here's the deal: > > I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data > Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. A very standard controller for the day. I had one on my Amiga via "The Wedge". > The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the 360K > floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost > full.) Ugh. Lotsa swaps. > There are three ways I can imagine doing this: > > 1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it to > my home network, MS-DOS Kermit supports an interface to a packet driver. I have my Commodore Colt (PC-XT) attached to the network this way. I load the packet driver, then fire off Kermit. Instead of "set port com1" or some such, it's "set ip...". Once you have all the parameters set (I have a Kermit batch file), it's just like using it over a serial port - "C" to connect, "C" to get back to the prompt, etc. I usually kermit to my SPARC server, login in, run Kermit there, then move files. I backed up a PS/2 Model 30 with a 50Mb RLL drive on an ISA controller this way. Unless you have some sort of machine running a telnet daemon that you can run Kermit over, there's nothing to catch your session on the other end. If all you have are M$ boxes, I wouldn't recommend this solution. > 2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running off a more modern controller > (IDE?), You would need to set the modern controller to a non-conflicting address. An 8-bit SCSI card might do the trick. > 3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC. Could be tricky, especially depending on what else is in there. > I've been trying to get option 3 to work for a week now, but I'm not having > any luck. Any tips? I'm currently trying to get the DTC controller to work in > an old EISA 486 with a 1992 AMI BIOS, but I keep getting a "HDD Controller > failure" message. I've tried it both with the controllers BIOS enabled and > disabled. If the BIOS is enabled, it puts up a message saying "1 hard disk" > right before the other error - this is the same message I see on the PC right > before it starts booting. > > So I know the controller itself is "working", but it's not being recognized > by the BIOS. I'm not sure what's going on. I don't know how well modern machines work with 8-bit disk controllers. I'd be concerned about IRQ/DMA conflicts. Additionally, I'd not try it in an EISA machine because I wouldn't want to mess with the config files. > Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive? Should > I try another MFM controller? You should leave that drive on the DTC-5150. It's formatted for it. The trick is to either get it working in a new box or get something else working in the box with it, or... Two other ways to do it - 1) use Kermit on the serial port. Sure, 40Mb will take a while to squirt out of an 8250 serial chip (don't try rates much over 19.2kbps), but all the equipment is there. 2) Locate a high-density 8-bit floppy controller and use 1.44Mb disks. I have one - it has its own BIOS to handle the differences. They would be difficult to locate now, so unless you already have one, it's probably not a good solution. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From bola at piraeii.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 15:12:08 2001 From: bola at piraeii.demon.co.uk (Zero Piraeus) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: FS: Toshiba T1000XE In-Reply-To: <996020502.2721.17.camel@frisbee> References: <996020502.2721.17.camel@frisbee> Message-ID: <996091928.11403.21.camel@frisbee> Hey: Hmm. Replying to my own post - not good. > It includes what I assume is the original carrying case, UK mains power > supply and a battery. Everything seems to be working. Someone has suggested twenty to thirty quid as a ballpark price. Are there any experts here who can tell us whether that's reasonable, 'cause we haven't really got a clue. -[z]. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jul 25 15:14:14 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Recent stuff In-Reply-To: <008d01c114a4$a3c60420$5fdb3fd0@DOMAIN> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010725160846.00a25ec0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:56 PM 7/24/01 -0400, you wrote: >Remember in 'Adolesence of P1' when P1 got his first new core crystal with >all the new space? An additional room to work with is allowing me to (start >to) >finally get a handle on my documentation impairment. ;) If you don't mind >a 430k jpg then check out: > > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/COMPOSITE2.jpg > >for some of it. I'll shortly be a trimmin, givin, and a tradin. Hey, keep me in mind! > (And >catching up on some backlogged copy distribution too. ) I did note an >extra: >Vax Architecture Reference Manual, a TRS-80 Level II Basic - A Self Teaching >Guide, and a Newton - Defying Gravity that I'd trade for a few Zip floppies >or >a color cartridge for my Epson Stylus Color 1520 printer . > >Last week was great for new toys too. Thank you Joel! There is now a >Tektronix 8002A on the road and getting closer to me as I write this. I'll >post an update when it arrives. And then at last week's fleamarket, I found >an Intel mscope 820 Microprocessor System Console with an 8080A mscope >probe, and a mscope personality prom board. Very cool! I just picked up an old Intel catalog and it shows this thing but this is the first one time that I've heard of anyone that had one. BTW I know where there are some Intel pods that look like they fit this thing. Let me know when the 8002 arrives. Joe > Hereare a few pics: > > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/I8201.jpg > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/I8202.jpg > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/I8203.jpg > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/I8204.jpg > >I don't have an 8080 system on hand to hook 'er up at the moment. Anyone >familiar with it? > >;) >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From marino13 at btinternet.com Wed Jul 25 15:29:18 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (Shaun Stephenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! References: Message-ID: <3B5F2C1D.14482458@btinternet.com> Well it wasnt personal or anything but as one of the poor sods who has to develop for that machine... sorry mate, but its a bloody nightmare! Like I said nothoing personal but as an artist the machine really hampers us, or at least compared to what we were LED to believe was capable of the beast from all the pre-launch hype. Sure theres always gonna be hype, but that and the marketing f*** ups, high price tag etc etc... not been to pleasant a transition period for the developer :( Its not a BAD machine, just not what we expected and (so I'm told) its really tricky to get your head round code-wise (yes, the problems you described plus severely undocumented "features"). I guess its a learning experience. Still, bring on Game Cube! HeHe!!! Anyway to keep on subject - I'm STILL looking for that CBM Pet and Apple II if anyone has one in the UK?!!! Also, slightly off topic I guess... does anyone have or can anyone get me a Atari 5200 in the States who is willing to ship to the UK? Thanks! Shaun Chris Kennedy wrote: > Shaun wrote: > > [snip] > > > I work in games development as an artist at EA (no no - don't "BOO" me!!!) > > working on PS2 (urgh!). > > [snip] > > "Urgh!"? As one of the collection of nutbars who lead the engineering > effort for CPU2 I think I've just been insulted :-) In my defense all > I can say is the SCE was responsible for all of those weird integer > instructions and the semi-brain-damaged floating point format. > > Honest. It wasn't our fault. Really! > > Cheers, > Chris. > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Jul 25 15:39:52 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (geoffr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010725121806.00a30760@pop.wcomnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Daniel A. Segel wrote: > Here's the deal: > > I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything works fine and the PC will boot up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can navigate around and look at all the files, etc. > > The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the 360K floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost full.) Laplink cable and laplink or equivilant software ..... From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Wed Jul 25 15:38:44 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? Message-ID: <3B5F2E54.ADCB461B@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, over the last weeks or so I dropped inquiries about 11/785s at various places. Some of them not asking if I could have one, others more to the point :-). I had very little feedback. One from one of our friends, who had the leftovers of a 11/780 to share (irony of that story is he got the 11/780 from Indiana to Denver 9 months ago :-). However, I have indication that my 11/785 boards won't work on the 11/780 backplane. So, I'm still desperately looking for a 11/785. I would be a lot more patient if I saw those popping up as abundantly as the 6000s pop up recently. What makes me really concerned is that few of you fellow VAX nerds have 11/78x in the first place. Where are they? BTW: does anyone know where Brian Chase is? Vacation? I need an information from him related to this matter. Sorry for being pushy with this, I'm just not as well connected as Chuck McManis, where people seem to be dropping off truckloads of VAX stuff at his house every other week :-). So I have to ask to get some leads to follow. The underlying assumption being that there is one 11/785 recycled as scrapmetal every month that I don't find it. So I appreciate any hints, even the slightest ones, like if you know of a place that might still be using an 11/785 or where I would be most likely able to detect one ... On the other hand, it might be that you guys are all looking for the same thing and so we may be competitors of sorts (albeit competing friends I'd hope :-). Like you wouldn't tell me if you saw an abandoned PDP-8 somewhere in a corner, would you? ;-) thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Jul 25 15:41:48 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... Message-ID: You can get an MCT 4-Drive Floppy Controller (MCT-FDC-HD4 $29.99) from JDR Microdevices (http://www.jdr.com/interact/item.asp?itemno=MCT-FDC-HD4). Only problem is that it must be the primary floppy controller, so you will need to pull the existing floppy controller card. -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:ethan_dicks@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:10 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... 2) Locate a high-density 8-bit floppy controller and use 1.44Mb disks. I have one - it has its own BIOS to handle the differences. They would be difficult to locate now, so unless you already have one, it's probably not a good solution. -ethan From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jul 25 15:47:41 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706607E@exc-reo1> > Jerome Fine wrote: > >long I can expect any files to still be readable? Also, how long is it likely >that the magneto optical drive will last. I suspect that the drives are likely This is (I hope) the key. 5.25" floppies don't appear on mainstream PCs anymore. 8" floppies are still available (but there were IIRC more varieties than there were with 5.25"). 3.5" floppies are too small to last too much longer (although so far many of the attempted replacements - like the LS120 - are backwards compatible). I'll try not to mention 3" floppies (plus all the others I've never come across). I expect that CD drives will go the same way over the next five to ten years. Finding one twenty years from now will be somewht tricky. >"What sort of strategy is recommended to always be sure that old files (stored >on old media which can only be read with old drives) be rescued/copied to newer >media before that is no longer possible?" Firstly you have to get them into a portable digital form. For many things that just means copying them off the old media and archiving onto current media (i.e. CD or MO or whatever you happen to like). For some stuff (boot disks, copy-protected disks etc.) you have to archive in some kind of image format that preserves the original characteristics. (ISTRC reading a paper about some US uni doing exactly this and inventing an archival format ... but I've lost the reference). Once you have made the initial digital backup your task is much simpler. It would take me a lot of time to archive all of my floppy disks (especially if I try to verify that I can accurately recreate the original media from the archive copy). But once I've done that, I can probably fit all of them onto a handful of CDs (I'm guessing that I can get 500 floppies at least onto a CD and I doubt that I have even a few thousand ... so call it five CDs to be safe). That might take months, perhaps years of copying and verifying (cataloguing might be nice too !). Once it is done I could run off a second set in a few hours. And a third, and a fourth ... We'll skip DVD ... not enough of a leap forward and too hamstrung by Hollywood fo rthe prices to drop quickly enough for my liking. Five to ten years from now, when recordable C3D is commonly available, I can repeat the process for all my CDs (which by then may number a few thousand). At 125GB per C3D I should be able to get at least 175 CDs per C3D, so that's maybe 10 C3Ds to archive absolutely every piece of digital data I will have then. Again, a second backup for safety will (hopefully) be quite quick. At each stage, I can verify digital backup copies against each other fairly easily (I'm assuming that data rates will go up as capacity goes up ... otherwise I see a bottleneck looming!) It all depends on how careful I am making the initial archival copy. >Obviously, every user would like to skip as many in-between steps as possible. >But since safety is perhaps more important, where should the compromise be made? Anything I care about now, I burn twice for myself. I always check the CD-Rs individually against the original source. >"What standard needs to be used to determine what files may be of interest in >50 years, 500 years or even 5000 years?" That's easy. You keep everything. Even the most expensive CD-R media is incredibly cheap compared to the prices three years ago. Obviously if you have terabytes of data this may not be so easy. But if you have terabytes of data it may still be easier to archive everything (which is likely to be a fairly mechanical process) rather than spend time sifting through deciding what to keep. >It is fine to be discussing the technical details of how to save files, but if everything >needs to be saved, that creates many difficulties. For example, if some software >is being developed, it's rare that non-distribution files ever see the light of day, much >less that they get saved beyond the next distribution. In most cases, only the final >source and executable files get saved and it is probably rare for OBJ and MAP files >to be saved. What is the best way to develop criteria that can determine which >files will be of interest to someone looking to understand how "programs" were >written 5000 years ago? Better still would be to attempt to determine the questions >that will be asked 5000 years from now. Looking back, I would suggest that the >first footstep on the Moon back in 1969 may not have been as important as the >technology that was needed to make it all possible. I'm actually at the beginning of archiving some stuff at work right now. Copying the source directories (and the version control stuff) to CD in a PC-readable format is fairly straightforward. Same for the final listings, obj, exe etc. (although much of that could be recreated). The bit I think will be difficult for a historian to understand in a hundred years is how to build the product once you have re-created the environment. Archiving people's knowledge is not currently on the agenda ... it takes too much time. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Jul 25 16:04:23 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706607F@exc-reo1> >more to the point :-). I had very little feedback. One from one There may not be many 11/78x machines in hobbyist hands. There may not be too many corporations subscribed to this list :-) It took me many years (admittedly in the UK) before I came across a uPDP-11. I've never seen a Robin (hint,hint...). You need to be patient. In my experience, the docs and hardware will come along at different times - never turn down an incomplete package (I'm preaching to the converted here since you have the innards already !). How many VAX-11/78x machines were produced? These days you expect that thousands of any machine would be sold (except maybe the specialised supercomputers). I believe that for the VAX 9000 series, only 400-500 made it out of the door. The same order of magnitude may well be true for the VAX-11/78x systems. How long have people been collecting such large machines? I don't have the room - I could not realistically find room for a VAX 4000 right now, never mind anything bigger! >9 months ago :-). However, I have indication that my 11/785 boards >won't work on the 11/780 backplane. So, I'm still desperately >looking for a 11/785. I would be a lot more patient if I saw those I don't know anything about the 11/780 => 11/785 upgrade but I would be surprised if the backplane had to be replaced. >in the first place. Where are they? They may all be in dealers wharehouses and defence sites and nuclear power stations. I did hear of three being decommissioned in the UK a few years ago but that's about it. >get some leads to follow. The underlying assumption being that >there is one 11/785 recycled as scrapmetal every month that I don't >find it. I suspect the underlying assumption is just that there are not that many of the beasts still around. I guess by the time I have the room for one of these, there won't be any left! Antonio From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Jul 25 16:47:54 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: FDDI cables Message-ID: <20010725164754.B2293544@uiuc.edu> OK, so I've managed to scrounge up some free FDDI hardware from various places around the U of Illinois (several boards and a concentrator), but I've been stuck at one problem point for several months: I have no cables, and new cables are expensive, and I can't find used cables anywhere (except ebay where I'm not sure I trust them). So, does anyone have FDDI cables, for sale or trade? I need both FDDI MIC-MIC cables and MIC-ST cables (I got a DEC DEFPA PCI card for my PC that uses ST connectors, I think because the MIC connectors are too big to fit on the back of a PCI card...) I really want to get my very own wacky dual-counter-rotating-ring topology network going in my apartment :) Thanks, - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From jrice at texoma.net Wed Jul 25 16:47:17 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:02 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706607F@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <3B5F3E65.8848B1D2@texoma.net> About 18 months ago, I was given a Vax 11/780, complete with almost 60 Dec terminals, Dec laser and dot matrix printers, hubs, connecting devices, disks, tapes, manuals, and a couple of MicroVax boxes, software, in other words the whole works. Since I only collect micros and some Unix workstations, I posted it's availability and the inventory of hardware that I could see in a short trip through the computer room. The Vax hardware had just come off the DEC maintance contract a couple of months before and had just been serviced. After posting to the list I only got one response and at the time I was living in an apartment and didn't have room to store the system. Finally it was dumpstered. The same fate fell to the two PDP11's that were removed from service a couple on months later. James "Carlini, Antonio" wrote: > > >more to the point :-). I had very little feedback. One from one > > There may not be many 11/78x machines in hobbyist hands. > There may not be too many corporations subscribed to > this list :-) > > It took me many years (admittedly in the UK) before > I came across a uPDP-11. I've never seen a Robin (hint,hint...). > You need to be patient. In my experience, the docs and > hardware will come along at different times - never > turn down an incomplete package (I'm preaching to > the converted here since you have the innards > already !). > > How many VAX-11/78x machines were produced? > These days you expect that thousands of any machine would > be sold (except maybe the specialised supercomputers). > I believe that for the VAX 9000 series, only 400-500 made > it out of the door. The same order of magnitude may well > be true for the VAX-11/78x systems. > > How long have people been collecting such > large machines? I don't have the room - > I could not realistically find room for a VAX 4000 > right now, never mind anything bigger! > > > >9 months ago :-). However, I have indication that my 11/785 boards > >won't work on the 11/780 backplane. So, I'm still desperately > >looking for a 11/785. I would be a lot more patient if I saw those > > I don't know anything about the 11/780 => 11/785 > upgrade but I would be surprised if the backplane > had to be replaced. > > >in the first place. Where are they? > > They may all be in dealers wharehouses and defence > sites and nuclear power stations. I did hear of three > being decommissioned in the UK a few years ago > but that's about it. > > >get some leads to follow. The underlying assumption being that > >there is one 11/785 recycled as scrapmetal every month that I don't > >find it. > > I suspect the underlying assumption is just that > there are not that many of the beasts still around. > I guess by the time I have the room for one of > these, there won't be any left! > > Antonio From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jul 25 17:02:47 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: FDDI cables In-Reply-To: FDDI cables (Dan Wright) References: <20010725164754.B2293544@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <15199.16903.714143.10324@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 25, Dan Wright wrote: > OK, so I've managed to scrounge up some free FDDI hardware from various places > around the U of Illinois (several boards and a concentrator), but I've been Free cards and concentrator, eh? Nice deal! > stuck at one problem point for several months: I have no cables, and new cables > are expensive, and I can't find used cables anywhere (except ebay where I'm not > sure I trust them). So, does anyone have FDDI cables, for sale or trade? > I need both FDDI MIC-MIC cables and MIC-ST cables (I got a DEC DEFPA PCI card > for my PC that uses ST connectors, I think because the MIC connectors are too My entire network of about thirty machines is FDDI, except for a few stragglers on ethernet. ALL of my cables, except for one or two, came from eBay. Speaking as both a relatively heavy buyer and seller on eBay, the eBay trust issue is effectively addressed, in my opinion, by the feedback mechanism. If you go to buy some FDDI cables from some seller who has a dozen negative feedback comments complaining about bad cables, well, don't buy from that seller. :) > big to fit on the back of a PCI card...) I really want to get my very own > wacky dual-counter-rotating-ring topology network going in my apartment :) Wacky? Umm, no. Spewing a packet onto a shared medium and then detecting the presence of noise on the line to indicate a collision, then retransmitting at a random interval until the packet gets through is wacky. Deploying 100baseT everywhere and then putting everything on a MAC-layer-bridged port (thus defeating one of the primary design principles of the networking technology in use) to get anywhere near a usable level of performance is wacky. -Dave McGuire From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 16:02:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 24, 1 03:34:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 663 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/53b0d93e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 16:12:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <000d01c11496$6809b0c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 24, 1 05:14:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3358 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/87a48a5e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 16:28:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <20010724234339.A29342@eskimo.eskimo.com> from "Derek Peschel" at Jul 24, 1 11:43:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2738 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/4a410695/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 16:57:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: from "Master of all that Sucks" at Jul 25, 1 12:58:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 315 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/726bc75f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 16:36:22 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Jul 25, 1 04:28:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 438 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/28c26757/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 16:44:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jul 25, 1 08:20:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2151 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/452cb198/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 17:11:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <3B5F0A01.E66FA8C8@btinternet.com> from "Shaun Stephenson" at Jul 25, 1 07:03:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 959 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/a660d1b6/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jul 25 17:42:45 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <20010725200945.97422.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Two other ways to do it - 1) use Kermit on the serial port. Sure, 40Mb will > take a while to squirt out of an 8250 serial chip (don't try rates much > over 19.2kbps), but all the equipment is there. 2) Locate a high-density > 8-bit floppy controller and use 1.44Mb disks. I have one - it has its own > BIOS to handle the differences. They would be difficult to locate now, so > unless you already have one, it's probably not a good solution. I would use a parallel port ZIP drive. It only needs to stay working long enough to copy from HD to ZIP and from ZIP to other machine. Or MicroSolutions Backpack drive (parallel port) Or Floptical 20M (SCSI -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 25 18:03:28 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <3B5F3E65.8848B1D2@texoma.net> Message-ID: Boy do I ever wish I were subscribed 18 months ago. I would have probably taken the whole lot. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, James Rice wrote: > About 18 months ago, I was given a Vax 11/780, complete with almost 60 > Dec terminals, Dec laser and dot matrix printers, hubs, connecting > devices, disks, tapes, manuals, and a couple of MicroVax boxes, > software, in other words the whole works. Since I only collect micros > and some Unix workstations, I posted it's availability and the inventory > of hardware that I could see in a short trip through the computer > room. The Vax hardware had just come off the DEC maintance contract a > couple of months before and had just been serviced. After posting to the > list I only got one response and at the time I was living in an > apartment and didn't have room to store the system. Finally it was > dumpstered. The same fate fell to the two PDP11's that were removed > from service a couple on months later. > > James > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 17:49:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 25, 1 03:42:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 943 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/4b548b1f/attachment.ksh From vance at ikickass.org Wed Jul 25 18:05:46 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Out of *random* junkyard denizens? I don't know. Out of a computer graveyard. certainly. Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > Not sure if it's possible for four people to build a PDP-11 out of garbage > > in less than ten hours. Given a couple of days in a proper computer > > graveyard, maybe. > > It's the 4 people that worries me. A single (good) hacker could probably > do it. But add 3 more people and you've got problems.... > > -tony > From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 18:09:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's an interesting article that appeared on the 22nd in the San Fransisco Chronicle, which talks about the staying power of the TRS-80 Model 100: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/07/22/BU160803.DTL Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Wed Jul 25 18:20:39 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706607F@exc-reo1> <3B5F3E65.8848B1D2@texoma.net> Message-ID: <3B5F5447.4D0580F6@aurora.regenstrief.org> James Rice wrote: > About 18 months ago, I was given a Vax 11/780, complete [...] > in other words the whole works. Since I only collect micros > and some Unix workstations, I posted it's availability [...]. > After posting to the list I only got one response and at the time > I was living in an apartment and didn't have room to store the > system. Finally it was dumpstered. The same fate fell to the two > PDP11's that were removed from service a couple on months later. Ahhhhhhhhhrggggggghhhhhhhh! See, those are the things that I am very anxious to avoid by repeatedly bugging all the VAX or VMS related fora about my want. The problem is, 18 months ago I would not have room for it either. To tell you the truth, 2 years ago, probably about the same time, I have *seen* our VAX 11/something standing in the hallway waiting to be picked up by either a scrapper or a vendor (for trade in at certainly a ridiculously low price.) I walked by and I dismissed the thought of even wondering if I couldn't take it. How stupid I was, don't beat me, I have beaten myself many times for this. regards, -Gunther > > James > > "Carlini, Antonio" wrote: > > > > >more to the point :-). I had very little feedback. One from one > > > > There may not be many 11/78x machines in hobbyist hands. > > There may not be too many corporations subscribed to > > this list :-) > > > > It took me many years (admittedly in the UK) before > > I came across a uPDP-11. I've never seen a Robin (hint,hint...). > > You need to be patient. In my experience, the docs and > > hardware will come along at different times - never > > turn down an incomplete package (I'm preaching to > > the converted here since you have the innards > > already !). > > > > How many VAX-11/78x machines were produced? > > These days you expect that thousands of any machine would > > be sold (except maybe the specialised supercomputers). > > I believe that for the VAX 9000 series, only 400-500 made > > it out of the door. The same order of magnitude may well > > be true for the VAX-11/78x systems. > > > > How long have people been collecting such > > large machines? I don't have the room - > > I could not realistically find room for a VAX 4000 > > right now, never mind anything bigger! > > > > > > >9 months ago :-). However, I have indication that my 11/785 boards > > >won't work on the 11/780 backplane. So, I'm still desperately > > >looking for a 11/785. I would be a lot more patient if I saw those > > > > I don't know anything about the 11/780 => 11/785 > > upgrade but I would be surprised if the backplane > > had to be replaced. > > > > >in the first place. Where are they? > > > > They may all be in dealers wharehouses and defence > > sites and nuclear power stations. I did hear of three > > being decommissioned in the UK a few years ago > > but that's about it. > > > > >get some leads to follow. The underlying assumption being that > > >there is one 11/785 recycled as scrapmetal every month that I don't > > >find it. > > > > I suspect the underlying assumption is just that > > there are not that many of the beasts still around. > > I guess by the time I have the room for one of > > these, there won't be any left! > > > > Antonio -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From sieler at allegro.com Wed Jul 25 18:22:15 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: what the hell. In-Reply-To: <20010725133340.A2228893@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <3B5EF237.29309.FC44F50@localhost> Hi, > collect old UNIX machines -- I have [...], HP 300, Do you mean HP 9000/300? (I presume you don't mean the poorly named HP 300 Jornada handheld :) The HP 300 (codename "Amigo") is an exceedingly rare computer from 1978 or so, and didn't run Unix of any kind. Pictures at: http://www.sieler.com/hp300/ (someone else's) and http://www.sieler.com/hp300_2 (mine) If you do have an HP 300, boy...do I want to talk to you! :) thanks, SS Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jul 25 18:37:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? References: Message-ID: <003101c11562$b866aec0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One item you mention certainly supports the notion that this board was used in a multi-drop scheme of some sort, and that's that the termination resistors were not populated. Only one station at each end of a transmission line should carry the termination resistors, hence, it's likely they'd be external to the board. I'm puzzled at the use of the 6850, however, since it's only async-capable. So far, however, and maybe until you find out quite a bit more about this setup, it's anybody's guess. Since this setup is async, why would you believe that it transmits clock? I guess it's conceivable that a master might provide a global clock, but, since the data format is async, I don't see any benefit. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:12 PM Subject: Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? > [MC3487 driver] > > > > > I'm not convinced that there's a "disconnected" state that would work to > > allow > > > > more than one transmitter on a pair. The line is intended to be passively > > > > > > When the OE line is low, then both outputs of each transmitter in the > > > pair are high impedance (disconnected, etc). So you can have multiple > > > transmitters driving the same pair of lines, if you ensure only one is on > > > at a time. > > > > > I made that assumption once, and was immediately informed that one should use > > the RS485-compatible drivers, back in the "old" days. The guy who jumped me was > > the app's engineer from MOT, and he was pretty young, but he was only spouting > > the party line. I'm not sure that it makes any difference, but one does wonder > > My guess (without trying the chip) is that the 'disconnected' > (high-impedance) mode does work as described. But that you should only > use multiple drivers if you are sure there is no chance of contention (2 > drivers enabled at once). The RS485 devices should allow for contention > without damage. > > I would believe as well that you'd probably get away with short periods > of contention using most RS422 drivers. It's not a good design to do > that, but then a lot of things aren't well designed. > > > > The data sheet gives a value for the short-circuit current. It also says > > > that only 1 transmitter should be shorted at a time, and not for more > > > than 1s. In a mulitdrop network type application, a collision would be > > > detected in a lot less than 1s (we hope!), so my guess is that it would > > > be OK to use the 3487 in this way. Not a good design, but a design that > > > would work (typical of a lot of Apple and IBM PC plug-in cards, actually...) > > > > > > When I've got some time (too many other projects...) I'll see how the > > > 3486/7 are used on this card. > > > > > Until you learn what the target application was, you'll like be left in the > > dark. While one can figure out what a board might do, until one gets a picture > > of what the mfg intended, it remains a mystery why things were done as they > > were. > > I had a quick look last night, and things are a little clearer. It > appears that 2 drivers and 2 receivers are used. The outputs of one > driver are connected to the inputs of a receiver (and ditto for the other > pair). There is space on the PCB for termination resistors (which are not > fitted), including a multi-turn preset between the lines of each > differential pair. The termination components are missing (never > soldered) on my board, so I have no idea what the values are. > > There are 6 numbered solder pads at the front edge of the card. 2 are > obviously grounded, the other 4 are the 2 differential pairs. I would > assume these carried a cable to some external connector. > > My guess is that one differentinal pair is the TxD and RxD lines of the > 6850. The other might be clock. I didn't have any data sheets to hand, so > I can't be sure about this yet. And I've not looked at the enable inputs > to the 3487 driver (the 3486 receiver seems to be enabled all the time, > which makes sense). I can't even remember if the 2 drivers used would be > enabled together or not (i.e. do they share a common enable pin). > > I need to do some more checking, obviously, but it's looking increasingly > likely that this card does interface to some form of multi-drop serial bus. > > -tony > > From dittman at dittman.net Wed Jul 25 18:47:14 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: from "Carlini, Antonio" at Jul 25, 2001 02:04:23 PM Message-ID: <200107252347.f6PNlEe07978@narnia.int.dittman.net> > How many VAX-11/78x machines were produced? > These days you expect that thousands of any machine would > be sold (except maybe the specialised supercomputers). > I believe that for the VAX 9000 series, only 400-500 made > it out of the door. The same order of magnitude may well > be true for the VAX-11/78x systems. You can't base the VAX-11/78x system sales projections on the VAX 9000 sales. The VAX-11/78x systems were very reliable and worked well. The VAX 9000 systems weren't and didn't. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1534.monmouth.com Wed Jul 25 18:47:24 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1534.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jul 25, 2001 10:57:59 pm" Message-ID: <200107252347.f6PNlOQ23638@bg-tc-ppp1534.monmouth.com> > > > > > > Not sure if it's possible for four people to build a PDP-11 out of garbage > > in less than ten hours. Given a couple of days in a proper computer > > graveyard, maybe. > > It's the 4 people that worries me. A single (good) hacker could probably > do it. But add 3 more people and you've got problems.... > > -tony > > IIRC there once was a DEC handout that ran through the 78A and 79J Field Service office where I worked. It was purported to be the Field Service Support Engineer boards (a test and oral argument similar like doing a thesis, the law boards and public flogging combined...) It went something like this. Question 1: Describe the theory of operation memory devices beginning with the discovery of writing, through electricity, williams tubes, magnetic storage (including the new Intel work on magnetic bubbles) and static and dynamic memory. etc, etc The last question was a project along the lines of: Given two AA batteries and one C cell, a 1.5 volt flashlight battery, 65 feet of wire wrap wire, 12 toggle switches and a 3.5mhz crystal oscillator. Build a KB11-C multiprocessor capable PDP11 with memory management, runibus map, 22 bit addressing, DL11-W serial card with 60Hz time of day clock (KW-11 programmable clock extra credit...) etc. I wish I had the full copy. As far as you can build a mainframe from the things you find at home... It's pretty true if you start with Simh26... PDP11, PDP8, PDP10. I do prefer Doug Jones' PDP8e emulator with the X11 front panel toggle switches -- wish the Simh could do all the whiz-bang graphics. Imagine different front panels depending on which PDP11 you software configure... Bill (meanwhile -- back to loading VAX/VMS on the VaxStation...) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Wed Jul 25 18:50:23 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 inventory References: <008201c10177$690f9750$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <001301c11564$b07a9120$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 11:10 AM Subject: PDP 11/34 > Well I just picked up a car load of stuff. Manuals, disks > and paper tapes, a VT100 terminal and 2 8" floppy drives. Well after a lost reservation at U-Haul the beast is now sitting in the garage. The top of the main unit has this on it M8266 KD11 M8265 " M7859 KT11-LB M7847 MS-11-JP M7847 " M7856 dl11W M7891 MSW-LP M7819 DZ11 M7762 RL11 The Auxiliary chassis with the 220V power supply has this in it: M7266 M7266 M7891 M105 G652 M7211 M7701 M9302 M7850 M9301YB M8264 M7821 M920 M105 M7821 M7680 M7681 The 110V auxillary chassis has this in it: M7266 M7265 M9301 M7891 M7891 PLESSY M9202 -- M9302 M7856 M8264 M7254 M7255 M7256 M7257 ASSY A108109-508 937 And an unnamed card that spanned 2 slots and had a toggle and lights In another cardboard box was: M920 (4x), M7254, M7255, M7256, M7257, m7847, m7821, m7681, g938, g180, m930, m7809, grant continuity cards (2x) flip chip 504D, Versatech 289 380211 teledyne philbrick 4023 x2 10 bit voltage D/A converter as well as what looks like a 9 slot and a 4 slot backplane and a bunch of light pens. There is also 2 RL01 and 4 RK05 drives. The smaller white rack has the main chassis mounted on top and it looks like space for 2 units below that The RL01 a are the right number and colour so I figure they go in there. The other rack is black and has space for 5 devices 4 match the rails on the RK05s (numbered 0-3). When getting the names I may have moved the Plessy card it seems to have been is a 3 slot gap and the unknown cards in the 220 box. I suspect that I should get the cleaning done and capacitors conditioned before putting everything back in the rack. Anyone in the Ottawa area interested in helping? I hope to have pictures soon. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1534.monmouth.com Wed Jul 25 18:51:16 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1534.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706607F@exc-reo1> from "Carlini, Antonio" at "Jul 25, 2001 02:04:23 pm" Message-ID: <200107252351.f6PNpGa23678@bg-tc-ppp1534.monmouth.com> > I don't know anything about the 11/780 => 11/785 > upgrade but I would be surprised if the backplane > had to be replaced. Yup... new boards new backplane. More microcode loaded into larger WCS. Ran at 3 clocks to 2 on the SBI... or is it the other way... I think most 11/785's backplanes are still in the 785's. There were plenty of spare board sets for folks doing self maintenance. > > I suspect the underlying assumption is just that > there are not that many of the beasts still around. > I guess by the time I have the room for one of > these, there won't be any left! > > Antonio Ah, well... The 11/780's will do just fine. I'm waiting for the TS10 simulator to do the '780 and support networking. I'm wondering if I can cluster it with the Vaxstation 3100 here. bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jul 25 18:53:23 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <3B5F2E54.ADCB461B@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20010725185146.N3963-100000@localhost> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Like you wouldn't tell me if you saw an abandoned PDP-8 somewhere in a > corner, would you? ;-) Sure... after I had it safely resuced! :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jul 25 18:59:37 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706607F@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <20010725185531.G3963-100000@localhost> > They may all be in dealers wharehouses and defence sites and nuclear > power stations. I did hear of three being decommissioned in the UK a > few years ago but that's about it. Gunther, I think I remember someone announcing, on this list a week or two ago, an available 11/780 in Dallas. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Wed Jul 25 19:05:03 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <3B5F5447.4D0580F6@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <20010725190355.H3963-100000@localhost> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > I walked by and I dismissed the thought of even wondering if I > couldn't take it. How stupid I was, don't beat me, I have beaten > myself many times for this. You and me both! I know the feeling. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Jul 25 19:29:53 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:28:19PM +0100 References: <20010724234339.A29342@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20010725172242.A10015@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:28:19PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > > There was a thing sold in the UK called a Torch Graduate. It was an > > > add-on for the BBC micro that was essentially a complete PC motherboard > > > (8088) + a few interface chips and a BBC Micro ROM. It also had 2 > > > built-in 5.25" drives, It ran MS-DOS (IIRC the normal PC version) The BBC > > > was used as the keyboard and video display only for a PC system... > > > > How is this different from the BBC Master 512K (or whatever the > > PC-compatible second processor was)? Did the Torch Graduate use the Tube? > > No, Torch rarely used the Tube interface. Probably because the Tube ULAs > were a custom Acorn part and were not that easy to obtain in quantity, > unless you were Acorn :-) > > Both of the Torch Coprocessors that I've seen use the 1MHz bus. The Z80 > one needs a ROM installed in one of the BBC's sideways ROM sockets. The > Graduate (8088) does not. It uses a trick where if the Beeb detects NMI > shortlry after a reset, it runs code in a ROM connected to the 1MHz bus > (this is not documented in any Acorn manual that I've seen, but it is > intentional, and works on all Beebs I've ever seen). Of course you can > only map 256 bytes of the ROM in at a time (the 1MHz bus has 8 address > lines, A0-A7 and 2 page select lines, page FCxx and page FDxx, only one > page is used for this ROM). After a few shenanigans mapping in different > parts of the ROM and copying code into the BBC RAM, the machine is booted. I remember reading about this trick the last time the subject of the Torch came up. > > Just in case anyone doesn't know... The normal system bus on the BBC runs at > > 1 MHz which is only half the CPU speed. The Tube runs at 2 MHz and is > > designed to be connected (through a semi-custom Acorn chip, some cables, and > > a matching chip) to one of a number of "second processor" units. > > No, you only need 1 Tube ULA. There is no ULA associated with the Tube > inside the Beeb -- it's just TTL buffers, address decoders, etc. The ULA > goes in the second processor unit, and is basically a pair of FIFOs to > transfer data between the BBC micro and the other processor and back again. Oops, sorry. I knew there were two FIFOs but I didn't realize they were on one chip. What exactly are the MOS routines designed to offer the second processor? I know they can copy software over the Tube and do some relocation (and that the relocation was enhanced in the Master). But what are the functions/memory locations/etc. avaialble to each side? And how does the whole thing get booted (and then stay running)? > For the beneift of non-UK classiccmpers, the name 'Tube' was chosen both > because it was a 'tube' through which data could be passed to the copro > and back, but also because the name 'tube' is a common slang name for the > London Underground (Subway), which is, of course, an alternative to the > bus :-) Also, ULA = Uncommitted Logic Array, a semi-custom PLA-like thing. Was it made by Ferranti? Acorn used a few different ULAs and so did some other vendors. I think Sinclair was one. And MOS = Machine OS = the ROM routines in the BBC, including the abstract filesystem interface but not any filesystems (which could be added or removed as desired) and an astonishing number of places for the user to extend the code. -- Derek From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 19:27:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107252347.f6PNlOQ23638@bg-tc-ppp1534.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 25, 1 07:47:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 947 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/b0010877/attachment.ksh From tdilliga at ilm.com Wed Jul 25 20:00:02 2001 From: tdilliga at ilm.com (Tom Dilligan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: machine appraisals References: <200107260003.TAA89143@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B5F6B92.A7766978@ilm.com> Is there any sort of group that does machine appraisals? I have a Tektronix 4054 which I picked up a couple of years ago by accident and am interested in getting a general idea of what it is worth. The machine is in good shape with some scratches and damage to the enamel, is clean on the inside, and works. I do not have documentation or any peripherals. >>>Tom From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1375.monmouth.com Wed Jul 25 20:09:16 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1375.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jul 26, 2001 01:27:02 am" Message-ID: <200107260109.f6Q19Gq24225@bg-tc-ppp1375.monmouth.com> > > Imagine different front panels depending on which PDP11 you software > > configure... > > And none of them have the feel of the real thing... > > -tony Only if you miss the fan noise... Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 25 20:19:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107260109.f6Q19Gq24225@bg-tc-ppp1375.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 25, 1 09:09:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 474 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/56c860a4/attachment.ksh From forslund at tbaytel.net Wed Jul 25 23:45:04 2001 From: forslund at tbaytel.net (The Forslunds) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Collecting microprocessors? Message-ID: <000301c1158d$beb3a1e0$babcbace@oemcomputer> Hi, I have been collecting microprocessors (among other things) for a couple of years. I collect mostly those from the 1970's period - 4,8, and 16 bit models, but have a few newer ones - all 486 and before. I collect any flavours i can obtain - Intel, AMD, Signetics, ... Most have either been given to me, or I've salvaged from old computers - don't worry, i won't dissassemble an older (working) computers, and I usually keep processor boards intact with memory ... Anyway, is there anyone else out there collecting these? Sure could use a catalogue/ list of available processors. Maybe it could be called The Chip and DIP Catalog ;-) Bob From spc at conman.org Wed Jul 25 20:50:07 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 25, 2001 10:57:59 PM Message-ID: <200107260150.VAA19635@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > Not sure if it's possible for four people to build a PDP-11 out of garbage > > in less than ten hours. Given a couple of days in a proper computer > > graveyard, maybe. > > It's the 4 people that worries me. A single (good) hacker could probably > do it. But add 3 more people and you've got problems.... One single good hardware hacker, one single good software hacker (you need software to prove the thing works by blinking all the blinking lights) and two grunts to grab tools and Coke. But by no means let them near the equipment or assemblers 8-) -spc (So what's the problem 8-P From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jul 25 20:47:16 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeff L Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: what the hell. Message-ID: <20010725.210334.80.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:22:15 -0700 "Stan Sieler" writes: > The HP 300 (codename "Amigo") is an exceedingly rare computer from > 1978 or so, and didn't run Unix of any kind. > > Pictures at: http://www.sieler.com/hp300/ (someone else's) > and http://www.sieler.com/hp300_2 (mine) Whoa, that's one beat-up badboy you got there. Does it run? ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From CELang at worldnet.att.net Wed Jul 25 21:07:09 2001 From: CELang at worldnet.att.net (CELang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... Message-ID: <002c01c11577$ca6cbd20$f3884b0c@oemcomputer> Well... If it were me, I'd just hook the things together modem to modem (or serial port to serial port as the case may be) and send everything over using terminal software. Procomm was what I used on my olde '286 and XT; Hyperterminal for my Pentium machine. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Segel To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:13 PM Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... >Here's the deal: > >I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything works fine and the PC will boot up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can navigate around and look at all the files, etc. > >The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the 360K floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost full.) > >There are three ways I can imagine doing this: > >1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it to my home network, >2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running off a more modern controller (IDE?), >3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC. > >I've been trying to get option 3 to work for a week now, but I'm not having any luck. Any tips? I'm currently trying to get the DTC controller to work in an old EISA 486 with a 1992 AMI BIOS, but I keep getting a "HDD Controller failure" message. I've tried it both with the controllers BIOS enabled and disabled. If the BIOS is enabled, it puts up a message saying "1 hard disk" right before the other error - this is the same message I see on the PC right before it starts booting. > >So I know the controller itself is "working", but it's not being recognized by the BIOS. I'm not sure what's going on. > >Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive? Should I try another MFM controller? > >Daniel >-- >Daniel A. Segel >WorldCom >Employee Systems User Support >Phone: 916-373-4810; Vnet: 653-4810; Pager: 888-783-5951; AIM: DanSegel > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jul 25 21:41:02 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 25, 2001 09:09:16 PM Message-ID: <200107260241.f6Q2f3001107@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > Imagine different front panels depending on which PDP11 you software > > > configure... > > > > And none of them have the feel of the real thing... > > > > -tony > > Only if you miss the fan noise... > > Bill I've got to agree with Tony, my /73 in a BA123 is about as quiet as the Sparc 20 I've run simh on, in fact I think it's quieter. Given the choice between the two I'll take my /73 hands down! With it I've got a *proper* terminal, not some whacked out terminal emulation (hmmm, is this when I admit that the system console for the PDP-10 version of simh is a VT420). Everything behaves the way it should, and I've got a better choice of disks. On the emulator I'm pretty much stuck using RL02's, on my /73 I've got two removable SCSI hard drives, a CD-ROM (yes, I've a bunch of PDP-11 readable CD's), and I can use FTP and TELNET under RT-11 or DECnet under RSX-11M. Unfortunatly to get files into RSX-11M+ I've first got to boot to RSX-11M, and copy them over (unless of course they're on CD-ROM). Oh, and the LA75 display printer hooked up to the VT420 I use for the console comes in pretty useful! The only use I see for a PDP-11 emulator personally is so I can run RT-11 on my wifes laptop when we're on vacation (and then I've got to take a blasted external keyboard with me). BTW, that's why I'd been running simh on the Sparc 20, I was setting up my RT-11 RL02 packs. Where I see emulation as useful is when you need a laptop version of the system, or you just don't have a chance of getting the hardware (and/or don't have the space even if you could). There are also commercial situations where using a emulator makes good business sense. Oh, the other use, in the case of the PDP-8 emulators with front panel emulation, is so that you can see what you should be seeing when running diagnostics on a system you're trying to repair (when you've never used a PDP-8). Zane From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Jul 25 21:40:21 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: WTB: Epson HX-40 in working order In-Reply-To: References: <200107250509.f6P596514253@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <200107260244.f6Q2iK824760@grover.winsite.com> > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Paul Braun wrote: > > > A friend of mine just acquired one of those big programmable highway > > emergency signs (the one with the little flourescent flip segments). > > It works, except the computer that runs it is flaky on a good day. > > It's an Epson HX-40 with a cassette interface that connects to the > > sign-control circuitry, running a proprietary control app. > > Hey, I want one! (the sign, not the computer :) > Well, it's for sale, but you'd need to either come to NW Indiana to pick it up, or find someone one their way to VCF with a trailer hitch who'd be willing to tow it for you.... ;o) Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Jul 25 21:42:09 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: WTB: Epson HX-40 in working order In-Reply-To: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146D24@BUSH02> Message-ID: <200107260246.f6Q2k9R24796@grover.winsite.com> > Hi Ethan, > >> Does the Highway Department know? ;-) > It was purchased at an auction, so I'm guessing they do..... if not, someone needs to have a talk with someone else in the equipment yard....... > I've always wanted to play with that sort of thing. The flippy > segments > are cool, but several square feet of LEDs is cool, too. I wouldn't > do it > with a mechanical display, but an electronic one would make a cool > binary > clock. > Yup. Big, too. Put it in your driveway and drive the neighbors nuts. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From jrice at texoma.net Wed Jul 25 21:48:30 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? References: <20010725185531.G3963-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <3B5F84FE.41B98C8@texoma.net> It was a guy with an email address of "win2x". It was available in Richardson, a northern Dallas suburb. "Win2x" sells a lot of SGI and Sun stuff on eBay. I'm going up there Friday to pickup some Sgi speakers i bought. I'll ask about the Vax if somebody wants me to. James "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > They may all be in dealers wharehouses and defence sites and nuclear > > power stations. I did hear of three being decommissioned in the UK a > > few years ago but that's about it. > > Gunther, I think I remember someone announcing, on this list a week or two > ago, an available 11/780 in Dallas. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jul 25 20:37:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: (7) Perkin Elmer model 3260 In-Reply-To: <3B5F0A01.E66FA8C8@btinternet.com> References: Message-ID: Boeing Canoga Park Cal, bid date 8/14 (7) Perkin Elmer model 3260 concurrent disc subsystem, and tektronics printer. bid invitation number 01-629 details 818-586-3094 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 22:51:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: WTB: Epson HX-40 in working order In-Reply-To: <200107260244.f6Q2iK824760@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <20010726035131.8082.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Paul Braun wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Paul Braun wrote: > > > > > A friend of mine just acquired one of those big programmable highway > > > emergency signs > Well, it's for sale, but you'd need to either come to NW Indiana to > pick it up, or find someone one their way to VCF with a trailer hitch > who'd be willing to tow it for you.... ;o) How much? I'm over in Ohio, less than 5 hours from NW Indiana (but I don't have a trailer hitch) :-( -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From allain at panix.com Wed Jul 25 22:49:41 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub References: <200107260241.f6Q2f3001107@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <002a01c11586$00b44660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Correct as necessary. I know a few things about networking, and that's the problem, I'm a dozen or so facts short. I Have learned to network RJ45/10baseT through ?active? hubs and DEC-AUI through DELNI hubs, etc. So far so, uh, ? good.. But I was looking at some DEC branded BNC-coax/?ThinNet?/10base2 cables and it dawned on me that this connection method looks hubless, with all the tee connectors hanging around. Could this be right? 10b2 ?passive? hubs are just tee connectors? Sorry for the IQ level of this question but I don't want to blow up my workstations, even if they were free. John A. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 23:02:34 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <200107252347.f6PNlEe07978@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010726040234.39346.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > How many VAX-11/78x machines were produced? > > These days you expect that thousands of any machine would > > be sold (except maybe the specialised supercomputers). > > I believe that for the VAX 9000 series, only 400-500 made > > it out of the door. The same order of magnitude may well > > be true for the VAX-11/78x systems. > > You can't base the VAX-11/78x system sales projections on the > VAX 9000 sales. The VAX-11/78x systems were very reliable and > worked well. The VAX 9000 systems weren't and didn't. Back in the day when they used to still compare Mainframe sales to Minis (c. 1984), I remember seeing a number - $300,000,000. It was the amount sold of a particular class of IBM mainframe and nearly the identical amount sold of VAX-11/780s. The dollar figures were remarkably close, especially when it was further evident that it was approximately 100 of the Mainframes and 1,000 of the VAX-11/780s. Those numbers were probably the peak in annual sales of specifically the 11/780, but it is a ballpark - I'd estimate the total sales between 2K and 5K, not including 11/785s. They probably didn't sell as many of those, since most customers did not require dual processors and SMP didn't emerge until 1988 with VMS 5.0, long after the 11/780 was being sold as new. I did see osu-eddie, an 11/780 running some flavor of BSD, once the machine through which all Columbus UUCP traffic flowed, at the university surplus. This was more than 10 years ago, and I think it went for $200. A local reseller bought it, stripped it and I saw the carcass in the dumpster the next month. :-( That was the last 11/780 I saw in the wild. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 23:09:43 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010726040943.97600.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Two other ways to do it - 1) use Kermit on the serial port. Sure, 40Mb > will > > > take a while to squirt out of an 8250 serial chip (don't try rates much > > Of course it's easy enough to replace the 8250 with a 16550. Desolder the > old chip and pop in the new one. Or replace the I/O card, or, if you are lucky, it's a dual serial card with the second chip empty or socketed. That used to be common when serial cards were >$50 each. > Any PC floppy controller will handle 720K disks. That's twice the > capacity of the 360K ones of course, so it might be worth doing. If you have media, yes. My Colt has one 720K and one 360K. > Do the ZIP drivers run on an 8088? I thought that at least some versions > didn't. Never thought of a ZIP disk. Dunno if it'll work or not. All I have is one internal IDE and one external SCSI. My housemates use the internal drive to move files back and forth to the uni computer lab, and I occasionally use the SCSI one to emergency-boot Macs (got System 7.5.3 on a ZIP). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 23:13:59 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: How much is a Sun3 keyboard worth? In-Reply-To: <10107140107.ZM6554@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010726041359.97882.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> I have the opportunity to get a Sun3 keyboard for my Sparc 3/60. It's free except for shipping from Italy. I have several Sun4 and Sun5 keyboards; I was going to finish a keyboard converter, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I have never seen a Sun3 keyboard for sale seperately and don't know how much one goes for these days (at one point, I'm sure they were free). If anyone else is looking for one, he has three. I only have one ancient Sun; the rest are all SPARC based. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jul 25 23:21:19 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: Finally got a KC8-AA In-Reply-To: <10107140107.ZM6554@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010726042119.41026.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> In the longest case of "classic attraction" I've experienced to date, I have finally aquired a programmer's console for my second oldest PDP-8, a PDP-8/a I was given in 1984 (along with a job offer that turned into a 10-year roller-coaster ride, but that's another story). Does anyone have any cool toggle-in stuff to test -8/a peripherals in particular? I have some stuff for the -8/L (cycle the lights, echo the TTY, count, etc.), and it will all work on the -8/a (even if it looks strange), but I'm interested in some front-panel system exercising to test a stack of hex-width OMNIBUS boards I have. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Jul 25 23:31:24 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub References: <200107260241.f6Q2f3001107@shell1.aracnet.com> <002a01c11586$00b44660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <006601c1158b$d9afd060$3900a8c0@bedroom2> ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:19 PM Subject: ThinNet Hub > Correct as necessary. > I know a few things about networking, and that's the > problem, I'm a dozen or so facts short. > I Have learned to network RJ45/10baseT through > ?active? hubs and DEC-AUI through DELNI hubs, etc. > So far so, uh, ? good.. Yes. > But I was looking at some DEC branded > BNC-coax/?ThinNet?/10base2 cables and it dawned on > me that this connection method looks hubless, with all the > tee connectors hanging around. Could this be right? > 10b2 ?passive? Correct, it is simply a daisy chain of machines on a common cable segment. Like most things it has advantages land disadvantages. By it's nature it has to be half duplex (only one path), restricted to <10Mbps and a break in the cable will kill all the workstations on that segment, however, very long runs (180m) are possible and NO HUB of any kind is required. You nead a 50 ohm termination at each end of the daisy chain to make sure there is equal current distribution, but that's about it. Cable is more expensive, but for some layouts you need less of it (if you have several machines close together for instance) and it can also be connected to a hub with a t piece and allow a common network. You need a miniumum of about a metre or so between t pieces. It was common practice at one point to use 10B2 as a trunk to connect distant hubs, since the 180m segment length was nearly twice the max for 10BT. Hope this helps > hubs are just tee connectors? No they are just t-connectors, not hubs at all. > Sorry for the IQ level of this question but I don't want to blow > up my workstations, even if they were free. NO stupid questions, only stupid answers, and it would be stupid not to ask. Cheers Geoff in Oz From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed Jul 25 23:57:24 2001 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: cipher docs Message-ID: <007701c1158f$75ba6120$0200a8c0@peachoid> Hi Douglas, I was the one asking about the Cipher docs. It would be great if you could put them up -- just let me know where to look and I'll vacuum them up. Thanks! Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010725/725e6d14/attachment.html From hamster at makosteszta.sote.hu Thu Jul 26 01:01:22 2001 From: hamster at makosteszta.sote.hu (Akos Varga) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:03 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? - memories In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706607F@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726075138.00b6eaf8@makosteszta.sote.hu> At 23:04 7/25/2001, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > There may not be many 11/78x machines in hobbyist hands. > There may not be too many corporations subscribed to > this list :-) It's funny... Only 20 or so TPA-11/585's (hungarian 11/785-clones) were built, but as I was told, most of them were just upgraded from 11/780-clones, so noone knows the exact count for sure, could this be true for the original DEC machines too? All I know that I found two complete 11/585 CPU boardsets, complete with backplane and cardcage a few years ago, and _then_ a complete 2x2 CPU system (two 11/787 (two-processored 11/785 systems) that were connected thru a shared memory box), which was an unbelievable sight... I was a bit sad that I couldn't take that system home, but obviously it was too big (first I'd had to ship it 200 kilometres, and then find him a good home...), so all I have are memories and a few pictures.... Hamster From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Jul 26 01:10:55 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? - memories References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726075138.00b6eaf8@makosteszta.sote.hu> Message-ID: <3B5FB46E.E6E06007@aurora.regenstrief.org> Akos Varga wrote: > All I know that I found two complete 11/585 CPU boardsets, complete > with backplane and cardcage a few years ago, and _then_ a complete > 2x2 CPU system (two 11/787 (two-processored 11/785 systems) that were > connected thru a shared memory box), which was an unbelievable sight... > I was a bit sad that I couldn't take that system home, but obviously it was > too big (first I'd had to ship it 200 kilometres, and then find him a good > home...), so all I have are memories and a few pictures.... Drives the tears into my eyes! -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Jul 26 01:53:26 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Next N4000 Megapixel -- whats c57 and C201B? Message-ID: <003d01c1159f$ab9c11c0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi all... I have been trying to bring my Next station to complete working shape... I have "restored" and tested the CRT on the N4000 (part no 135.00) MegaPixel monitor and seems to be ok on a Sencore CRT tester...dont think it would last for years now but should be giving a picture.... But I am still without a picture. When power is turned on, I can hear the HV "crackle" for a fraction of a second but then no HV. I dont know if someone played around in this monitor but on the verticaly mounted board ("analog board"?) C57 and C201B (top near flyback) are missing...anybody got one open or schematics to tell me if they should be there and the values? There seems to have been some soldering work there -- but hard to tell... Kinda weird cause these are the two only empty parts locations in the whole board... Thanks Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector or http://computer_collector.tripod.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 26 01:32:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Fun "events" for VCF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Events at VCF do sound like a fun idea. How about.... Computer Clinic A loose group of experts that converge on some specific table or area to help people get their old computers working. Setup should include ability to make boot floppies, maybe print some .pdf manual pages (or put the .pdf on floppy). Contest on who can find the best stuff in the seller area (based on the antique show format, maybe even with a live auction at the end to set value). Live auction of computer stuff. See if you can talk a few of the local auction houses into making a BIG combined auction. Vintage geek clothing contest. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jul 25 18:25:30 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found?" (Jul 25, 22:28) References: Message-ID: <10107260025.ZM871@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> > Both of the Torch Coprocessors that I've seen use the 1MHz bus. The Z80 > one needs a ROM installed in one of the BBC's sideways ROM sockets. All the Torch Z80s I've seen DO use the Tube, though they don't quite follow Acorn's Tube protocols and don't always play well with other Acorn sideways ROMs. They don't use the Tube code in the Acorn DNFS ROM, instead they have their own sideways ROM (which unfortunately grabs some vectors at times it shouldn't, so having a DNFS ROM in the same machine can be problematic). Nor do they use an Acorn Tube ULA, instead they have an 8255 on the Z80 card. The Graduate does indeed use the 1MHz bus, though, and I think the Unicorn does too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Thu Jul 26 02:33:32 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: FDDI cables In-Reply-To: <15199.16903.714143.10324@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On 25-Jul-2001 Dave McGuire wrote: > Wacky? Umm, no. Spewing a packet onto a shared medium and then > detecting the presence of noise on the line to indicate a collision, > then retransmitting at a random interval until the packet gets through > is wacky. Deploying 100baseT everywhere and then putting everything > on a MAC-layer-bridged port (thus defeating one of the primary design > principles of the networking technology in use) to get anywhere near a > usable level of performance is wacky. But less expensive. -Philip From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 26 04:03:38 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: FDDI cables In-Reply-To: Re: FDDI cables (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) References: <15199.16903.714143.10324@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15199.56554.893396.735283@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 26, gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > Wacky? Umm, no. Spewing a packet onto a shared medium and then > > detecting the presence of noise on the line to indicate a collision, > > then retransmitting at a random interval until the packet gets through > > is wacky. Deploying 100baseT everywhere and then putting everything > > on a MAC-layer-bridged port (thus defeating one of the primary design > > principles of the networking technology in use) to get anywhere near a > > usable level of performance is wacky. > > But less expensive. So are Ford Festivas...you get what you pay for. I realize that I'm a dying breed, but I prefer using the right tool for the job. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jul 26 04:13:27 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: argh was Re: FDDI Message-ID: <15199.57143.933913.570110@phaduka.neurotica.com> Folks, I apologize if my last remark (regarding FDDI, Ford Festivas, and using the right tool for the job) sounded snotty. I'm just trying to stand up for my principles, that combined with the fact that I'm in a bad mood probably didn't sound very nice. Sorry folks. -Dave McGuire From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jul 26 05:06:38 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited Message-ID: I must say I was a bit surprised at how well done the show was. It wasn't over-sensationalized at all. On the contrary, I thought it was very well researched and did a good job of telling the stories and explaining the technical stuff. I was glad that they had more quotes from Jonathan Littman than from John Markoff. Littman told Mitnick's story closer to what really was going on, while Markoff stuck to his agenda of vilifying Mitnick, which he's spent the better part of the last five years of his career doing. Markoff is the kind of reporter I despise; one who attempts to make the news or mold it in his view rather than simply report it. But I don't think Mitnick's story is as rosy as he paints it either, and I think he's spinning some revisionism on it. He's certainly got some skeletons in his past that he's not owning up to. Anyhoo, Draper's story is pretty much how I've heard it told before. He really was just an unfortunate fall guy of sorts. The warehouse where they filmed Draper is where my computers used to be stored (well, a few still are, I'm not quite done moving yet :) There were some shots of me typing on an Apple ][ (you may have noticed the "CALL -151" on the screen at one point :) but you couldn't tell who it was, just hands. The display of 1's and 0's that showed periodically was generated on an Apple ][ as well (that is, by far, the acme of my career). There was also some other stuff, like 6502 assembler scrolling by, and of course the computers they showed rotating were all mine ;) Well, that was fun. One to the next show: I'm providing some Altair footage for a National Geographic special on computer history. I'm also in the process of developing a documentary on the F14 flight control computer, but that's a slow-going affair. Once the VCF's are over for the year then I hope to kick that up into full gear. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1660.monmouth.com Thu Jul 26 06:38:43 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1660.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? - memories In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726075138.00b6eaf8@makosteszta.sote.hu> from Akos Varga at "Jul 26, 2001 08:01:22 am" Message-ID: <200107261138.f6QBchD02273@bg-tc-ppp1660.monmouth.com> > It's funny... Only 20 or so TPA-11/585's (hungarian 11/785-clones) were > built, but as I was told, most of them were just upgraded from 11/780-clones, > so noone knows the exact count for sure, could this be true for the original > DEC machines too? > > Hamster Sure seemed like I upgraded most 11/780s to 785's back around '85 and DEC even shipped new numbers for the cabinet -- often 11/780-5 instead of 11/785 IIRC - because 11/785s had to be in the FCC approved cabinets with RF gaskets. However, by 1984 or so there seemed to be more 11/785's being ordered than 11/780s. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1660.monmouth.com Thu Jul 26 06:44:19 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1660.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <20010726040234.39346.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 25, 2001 09:02:34 pm" Message-ID: <200107261144.f6QBiJF02318@bg-tc-ppp1660.monmouth.com> > The dollar figures were remarkably close, > especially when it was further evident that it was approximately 100 > of the Mainframes and 1,000 of the VAX-11/780s. Those numbers were > probably the peak in annual sales of specifically the 11/780, but it > is a ballpark - I'd estimate the total sales between 2K and 5K, not > including 11/785s. They probably didn't sell as many of those, since > most customers did not require dual processors and SMP didn't emerge > until 1988 with VMS 5.0, long after the 11/780 was being sold as new. > > > -ethan The 11/785's were not SMP... they were (IIRC) a fast schottky rework of the 11/780's ttl which was about 1.5 times an 11/780. The 11/782 was dual cpu 11/780's with shared memory bus run master-slave for compute bound tasks with the i/o run off of one cpu. The 11/787 was similar with dual 11/785's on the multiport memory. I was told the 11/785 was done in DEC Europe as a mid life kicker for the 11/780 when the Venus 11/790 -- er 11/860 -- er 8600 was VERY LATE getting built. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From optimus at canit.se Wed Jul 25 08:54:09 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <20010724025018.20672.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1158.606T450T8944115optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >Does anyone have the AT protocol spec for it? I've always been interested >in the concept of a timekeeper that I could read/set from machines that >were not ethernet/NTP-capable. I've even sat around dreaming up ways to >build a wall clock that was settable and readable either via IR or some >serial connection so I'd have a chance of keeping things sync'ed around here. >If I ever did get an RS-232-based timekeeper, I'd think about throwing it on >a terminal server so everybody else on there could get to it. I don't know what it's like in your part of the hemisphere, but there's an atomic clock down in Germany which broadcasts its time. IUt's quite easy to obtain clocks which rely on its signal, and I've seen designs for a similar cartridge for the Atari ST. Can't remember whether it plugged into the parallel or cartridge port. Hmm, sounds very much like something that would be printed in Elektor or C't. Anyway, that should be the optimal timekeeping device, assuming you can come up with the hardware and that you're within reach of the transmitter. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 26 07:57:55 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: Derek Peschel "Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found?" (Jul 25, 17:29) References: <20010724234339.A29342@eskimo.eskimo.com> <20010725172242.A10015@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <10107261357.ZM1265@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 25, 17:29, Derek Peschel wrote: > Oops, sorry. I knew there were two FIFOs but I didn't realize they were on > one chip. > > What exactly are the MOS routines designed to offer the second processor? > I know they can copy software over the Tube and do some relocation (and > that the relocation was enhanced in the Master). But what are the > functions/memory locations/etc. avaialble to each side? To understand that, you need to have a little information about how the MOS (Machine OS) works normally (without the Tube). The whole thing is based on a very structured and comprehensive set of system calls which handle everything a user, applications programmer, or sytems programmer would want to do. The two best known are OSByte and OSWord. OSByte is used to make system calls which take few parameters, which are therefore passed in the registers: A holds the call number (determines which OSByte function you want), and X and sometimes Y pass data. The low-numbered calls mostly read or write a value in the OS variable space (eg to set serial port parameters) and the high-numbered ones are read/modify ones. Typically A holds the call number, X holds a value, and Y holds a mask. The variable is ANDed with Y and EOR'd with X (so you can set, clear, toggle, or leave unchanged any bit) and the old value is returned in X. OSWord is used for calls that need larger parameter sets. Here X and Y contain the 32-bit address of a parameter block, which may be updated by the call. There are several other sets of calls, such as OSWrCh (write a character to an output stream, eg screen or printer), OSFile (assorted filehandling functions such as open or close a file, or read a file, a byte, a directory, or whatever), OSCli (pass text to the comand line interpreter), OSEven (generate an event - a software interrupt), etc. Everythng is written to use these calls, and they work over the Tube. If the call is initiated in the 2nd Processor, its ROM knows to pass it over to the I/O processor (the 6502 in the Beeb). If it's something that involves transferring a memory block, such as the OSWORD that reads a raw disk sector into a buffer, the top part of the 32-bit address determines whether the address refers to I/O processor address space or the 2P address space. The 2nd Processor ROM only needs to know how to pass parameters to the I/O processor, how to use the FIFOs to transfer data, and be able to jump to an address in its own memory space. > And how does the > whole thing get booted (and then stay running)? At reset, the MOS offers a series of service calls to each sideways ROM in turn (ie, it calls each ROM in turn, with a certain "reason code" in the A register). These calls give each ROM the opportunity to register itself as a language, a filing system, or a service provider. The ROM containing the Tube code accepts some of these calls and initialies the Tube interface. Meanwhile, if there's a second processor on the other side of the Tube, its ROM initialises its side, and when asked by the 6502 side, tells the 6502 what processor it is. Once the rest of the 6502 initialisation is complete, it will go into a loop waiting for system calls from the other side. If the other side is another 6502 (there's a 3MHz 65C02 2nd Processor), it will usually ask for a copy of the current language, which may be relocated to the top of memory, or if it's a Z80, it will ask the I/O processor to give it the contents of the first sector of a disk (and boot CP/M). > Also, ULA = Uncommitted Logic Array, a semi-custom PLA-like thing. Was > it made by Ferranti? Acorn used a few different ULAs and so did some other > vendors. I think Sinclair was one. Yes, it was Ferranti. A ULA was an array of gates with no final metallisation layer pre-defined; the designer would specify the interconnections between the gates (rather like drawing a PCB layout) and that was turned into a mask which was used to lay down the metallisation in the final stages of wafer manufacture. > And MOS = Machine OS = the ROM routines in the BBC, including the abstract > filesystem interface but not any filesystems (which could be added or > removed as desired) and an astonishing number of places for the user to > extend the code. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 08:02:47 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: test Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513C6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Mighty quiet... From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Jul 26 08:18:52 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: hayes chronograph" (Jul 25, 14:54) References: <1158.606T450T8944115optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10107261418.ZM1335@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 25, 14:54, Iggy Drougge wrote: > I don't know what it's like in your part of the hemisphere, but there's an > atomic clock down in Germany which broadcasts its time. IUt's quite easy to > obtain clocks which rely on its signal, and I've seen designs for a similar > cartridge for the Atari ST. Can't remember whether it plugged into the > parallel or cartridge port. > Hmm, sounds very much like something that would be printed in Elektor or C't. Elektor did indeed publish a design -- in fact, more than one -- some years ago, and other magazines have, too. The transmissions are pretty low frequency (low end of long wave: 60kHz) so a receiver has to be accurately controlled if it's going to work - most use crystal control. > Anyway, that should be the optimal timekeeping device, assuming you can come > up with the hardware and that you're within reach of the transmitter. The German one is DCF at Mainflingen (IIRC) and there's a similar transmitter (MSF) at Rugby in the UK. There's at least one in the US (Colorado) as well. See http://www.npl.co.uk/npl/ctm/electronic_projects.html for some ideas. One of my erstwhile colleagues built a very nice receiver with an active aerial (the signal is easily interfered with by other LF sources, eg computers) and a Z80-based decoder driving a cuckoo clock (yes, with a wooden cuckoo behind door, that comes out on the hour, and by courtesy of a speech synthesis routine, says "At the third stroke, the time will be .... KOO-koo .. KOO-koo .. KOO-koo". He had an eccentric sense of humour :-)) The clock is still used to provide time service accurate to a few miliseconds across campus. His web pages are no longer around, I think, but similar designs are to be found at http://www.nukem.freeserve.co.uk/contents/electronics/clock/ and several other places. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Jul 26 08:42:30 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap! How would YOU feel if someone broke into your computer system and took YOUR files to do whatever he felt like with? Or hacked your voicemail system and listened to your messages? I know your knee-jerk reaction... I don't have anything I care about on my computer... If your name, DOB, and SSN are ANYWHERE on your computer, a hacker can steal your identity. A credit card number (perhaps from an letter you typed in and FAXed to purchase something because you didn't want to send your CC# across the internet)? Bank account numbers? ETrade account numbers? People who break into computers are criminals. People who launch DDOS attacks are criminals. Kevin Mitnick is a CONVICTED criminal, and has ADMITTED criminal behaviour. I don't get teary-eyed thinking about the time he spent in prison before the trial. He was a proven flight risk (he ran away once, and hid out in Denver). I wonder how Littman would react if someone broke into HIS system. Clint PS I daily have probe attacks on my DSL system from script kiddies looking to add another machine to their DDOS attack farm. On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I must say I was a bit surprised at how well done the show was. It wasn't > over-sensationalized at all. On the contrary, I thought it was very well > researched and did a good job of telling the stories and explaining the > technical stuff. > > I was glad that they had more quotes from Jonathan Littman than from John > Markoff. Littman told Mitnick's story closer to what really was going on, > while Markoff stuck to his agenda of vilifying Mitnick, which he's spent > the better part of the last five years of his career doing. Markoff is > the kind of reporter I despise; one who attempts to make the news or mold > it in his view rather than simply report it. > > But I don't think Mitnick's story is as rosy as he paints it either, and I > think he's spinning some revisionism on it. He's certainly got some > skeletons in his past that he's not owning up to. > > Anyhoo, Draper's story is pretty much how I've heard it told before. He > really was just an unfortunate fall guy of sorts. > > The warehouse where they filmed Draper is where my computers used to be > stored (well, a few still are, I'm not quite done moving yet :) There > were some shots of me typing on an Apple ][ (you may have noticed the > "CALL -151" on the screen at one point :) but you couldn't tell who it > was, just hands. The display of 1's and 0's that showed periodically was > generated on an Apple ][ as well (that is, by far, the acme of my career). > There was also some other stuff, like 6502 assembler scrolling by, and of > course the computers they showed rotating were all mine ;) > > Well, that was fun. One to the next show: I'm providing some Altair > footage for a National Geographic special on computer history. > > I'm also in the process of developing a documentary on the F14 flight > control computer, but that's a slow-going affair. Once the VCF's are over > for the year then I hope to kick that up into full gear. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Jul 26 08:46:58 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <1158.606T450T8944115optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: There used to be a lot of WWV receivers available to pick up time from the NBS broadcasts, but they seem to have gone away with the arrival of GPS. I wrote some software for a wwv receiver about 15 years (on topic even!), but had to re-write it about 4 years ago when the receiver died and was replaced with a stationary GPS box. Even pulled Lat/Long/Alt from the GPS because I could :) Clint On 25 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > >Does anyone have the AT protocol spec for it? I've always been interested > >in the concept of a timekeeper that I could read/set from machines that > >were not ethernet/NTP-capable. I've even sat around dreaming up ways to > >build a wall clock that was settable and readable either via IR or some > >serial connection so I'd have a chance of keeping things sync'ed around here. > >If I ever did get an RS-232-based timekeeper, I'd think about throwing it on > >a terminal server so everybody else on there could get to it. > > I don't know what it's like in your part of the hemisphere, but there's an > atomic clock down in Germany which broadcasts its time. IUt's quite easy to > obtain clocks which rely on its signal, and I've seen designs for a similar > cartridge for the Atari ST. Can't remember whether it plugged into the > parallel or cartridge port. > Hmm, sounds very much like something that would be printed in Elektor or C't. > > Anyway, that should be the optimal timekeeping device, assuming you can come > up with the hardware and that you're within reach of the transmitter. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Hackers do it with fewer instructions. > > > From dtwright at uiuc.edu Thu Jul 26 08:57:10 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: what the hell. In-Reply-To: <3B5EF237.29309.FC44F50@localhost>; from sieler@allegro.com on Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 04:22:15PM -0700 References: <20010725133340.A2228893@uiuc.edu> <3B5EF237.29309.FC44F50@localhost> Message-ID: <20010726085710.C2412894@uiuc.edu> Stan Sieler said: > Hi, > > collect old UNIX machines -- I have [...], HP 300, > > Do you mean HP 9000/300? (I presume you don't mean the poorly named > HP 300 Jornada handheld :) > > The HP 300 (codename "Amigo") is an exceedingly rare computer from 1978 or so, > and didn't run Unix of any kind. er, yeah, 9000/300. sorry for anyone that confused... that HP 300 you've got is pretty cool-looking. what does it do? does it run any interesting OS? - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 09:02:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <200107261144.f6QBiJF02318@bg-tc-ppp1660.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010726140222.4454.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: I wrote: > > ...most customers did not require dual processors and SMP didn't emerge > > until 1988 with VMS 5.0, long after the 11/780 was being sold as new. > > > > > > -ethan > > The 11/785's were not SMP... they were (IIRC) a fast schottky > rework of the 11/780's ttl which was about 1.5 times an 11/780. Does SMP have a meaning in this context besides Symmetric Multi-Processing? What I meant by my comment was that with VMS versions prior to 5.0, if you had multiple processors, one was "master" and could go into kernel mode, the other were slaves and never went into kernel mode. I had to update our COMBOARD drivers in 1988 to handle the extra level of spin-locking required of all privileged code to accomodate the fact that more than one CPU might be attempting to access systems structures at the same time. This has nothing to do with the logic family used to implement a processor. > The 11/782 was dual cpu 11/780's with shared memory bus run > master-slave for compute bound tasks with the i/o run off of one > cpu. Right. Developed by George Goble (of the LOX-on-the-BBQ fame), et. al, at Purdue, IIRC. > The 11/787 was similar with dual 11/785's on the multiport memory. Never saw one of those. > I was told the 11/785 was done in DEC Europe as a mid life kicker for > the 11/780 when the Venus 11/790 -- er 11/860 -- er 8600 was VERY LATE > getting built. > > Bill My understanding was that the 11/785 was DEC's official implementation of what George and crew cobbled together as the 11/782. It only saw the light of day because, as you say, there was a gap in DEC's product line with the delays in the 8600 and customers wanted more than what was presently out there. Disclaimer: when this stuff was current, we had a couple of 11/750s and an 11/730 at work. I never got to dig in the guts of an 11/780, so only parts of this is from personal experience. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 09:08:47 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks (was Re: hayes chronograph) In-Reply-To: <1158.606T450T8944115optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010726140847.37189.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > >Does anyone have the AT protocol spec for it? I've always been interested > >in the concept of a timekeeper that I could read/set from machines that > >were not ethernet/NTP-capable... > > I don't know what it's like in your part of the hemisphere... Not as nice as that... > but there's an > atomic clock down in Germany which broadcasts its time. IUt's quite easy to > obtain clocks which rely on its signal I have one. It's an add-on for a car with internal and external temp sensors. I picked it up when I was in Munich last year and didn't realize that you _can't_ set the time manually. I was figuring that it'd be fun to have a thermometer, and the fact that we don't have the same clock transmitter in the States wouldn't be a problem. It is. I have a car thermometer that knows what time it is in Germany. > Anyway, that should be the optimal timekeeping device, assuming you can come > up with the hardware and that you're within reach of the transmitter. There is a transmitter in Colorado, but I am not aware of any hobby projects to take advantage of it. They did start building VCRs that could set themselves off of a time signal broadcast over PBS stations, but I think I heard something about that being a failed program and being discontinued at some point. When I heard about it, it suggested to me that if the atomic clock radio signal had good propgation characteristics, they would have used that instead of a time signal from a TV station, but perhaps it's more an issue of Daylight Savings Time. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 09:11:58 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513C9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of > this drive? Should I try another MFM controller? I'd use Kermit or some other serial-port file transfer... CrossTalk was a favorite of mine in those days; it could transfer multiple files at once, rather than one at a time (there may be a way to do that in Kermit that I never got around to doscovering)... ^^^ Humourous typo! -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 09:23:31 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > As far as you can build a mainframe from the things you find at home... > > > > It's pretty true if you start with Simh26... PDP11, PDP8, PDP10. > > No, not an emulation, a real machine.... > > Actually, round here, you probably couldn't run the emulator (and > certainly not at any reasonable speed) on any of the machines I own. But > if you dug about a bit, you might find enough parts to make at least a > minicomputer from scratch... Tony- I'm running SIMH on a 233MHz Pentium-1 with rather good response. At least, TOPS-10 seems as fast as it was at university loaded with students... Regards, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 09:25:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > Imagine different front panels depending on which PDP11 you software > > > configure... > > > > And none of them have the feel of the real thing... > > > > -tony > > Only if you miss the fan noise... You would mention that... I've got a Dell PowerEdge 2400 sitting three feet away that's slowly robbing me of my hearing... it has a "slow mode" but since airflow around the unit is a problem, I don't feel safe using it... so it stays set on "hurricane"... -dq From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jul 26 09:34:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Tektronix was Re: machine appraisals In-Reply-To: <3B5F6B92.A7766978@ilm.com> References: <200107260003.TAA89143@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010726101704.00a4c200@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:00 PM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: >Is there any sort of group that does machine appraisals? First, the Tektronix machines aren't nearly as collectable as others such as HP, Atair, etc so they aren't worth nearly as much even though many of them are considerably rarer. Sorry but that's just a fact of life, I have a Tek 4051, Tek 31, 8051, 8054 and some others and I just GAVE away a 8002. I think there are a few people like Herb Johnson, Don Maslin and others around that have had a LOT of experience with machines and they can give you a reasonable idea of what some machines are worth but the Tek 4054 is such an odd machine that I doubt even they could give you anything more than just a guess. There was a Tek 4051 that sold on E-bay about a year ago but I don't remember what it went for but I don't think it was more than a few hundred dollars. The auction page may be cached somehere and you might be able to find it with a Google or other search. Since your machine doesn't have manuals or ROMs it's value is probably considerably lower han a complete machine. FWIW I have a working 4051 with ALL the manuals, ALL the ROMs, the front test panel, ROM toaster, optional disk drives, plotter and a huge load of prototype ROMs and other hardware. I have NO idea what it's worth. Good luck with it, Joe >I have a >Tektronix 4054 which I picked up a couple of years ago by accident and >am interested in getting a general idea of what it is worth. The machine >is in good shape with some scratches and damage to the enamel, is clean >on the inside, and works. I do not have documentation or any peripherals. > > >>>Tom From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 09:41:53 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Fun "events" for VCF Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Vintage geek clothing contest. > heh. the winner should be someone who manages to find a way to wear both a t-sheet and a pocket protector... -dq From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 09:53:03 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010726145303.53228.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > There used to be a lot of WWV receivers available to pick up time > from the NBS broadcasts, but they seem to have gone away with the > arrival of GPS. Good point. Rand-McNalley sells a laptop GPS for about $80 with no software - PS/2 mouse port for power and DE-9 for data. I have one that I use in the car and the airplane (I have a 9-pin null-modem dongle so I can use the GPS with my Palm Pilot and GPS Pilot software). I really should have remembered this - the first time I encountered using GPS strictly as a time-base was on a NASA project to track the IMP-8 satellite (launched over 30 years ago, so on-topic!). It's a solar wind satellite that orbits about 100,000 miles up, outside the Van Allen belts. A consequence of it being old is that it has no store-and-forward capability. It broadcasts in real time (somewhere in the 2m band) so if you want the data, you'd better be under it to catch it. I monitored the only IMP-8 ground station in the Southern Hemisphere, at McMurdo Station, during the winter of 1995. The GPS comes in because they needed to know *exactly* what time it was so the antenna could track the satellite as it moved across the sky. It has a complex orbit; there are no 2-line elements for it - we ftp'ed a file every week with the anticipated azimuth/elevation numbers for a given time and the antenna controller tracked it as it flew overhead. The antenna and positioners were not a robust system (it broke several times due to the wind and cold), but the PeeCee *did* always know what time it was. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rickb at bensene.com Thu Jul 26 09:53:51 2001 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: what the hell. In-Reply-To: <20010725133340.A2228893@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Dan Wright, on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:34 AM, wrote: > ... I got a > textronix model 31 electronic calculator recently, but haven't > done anything > interesting with it yet -- I just know that it works. If anyone > has tapes > for it, let me know, that would be fun to mess around with... > > Congratulations on finding a great old calculator! Check out http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators/tek31.html Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Jul 26 09:50:22 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... Message-ID: There are drivers available for systems with an 8088 and MS-DOS 2.11 (and up): http://www.palmzip.de/. This drivers works with the 100MB ZIP models, but might not with the 250MB. Bob Feldman -----Original Message----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:49 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... Do the ZIP drivers run on an 8088? I thought that at least some versions didn't. -tony From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 09:55:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010726145506.10715.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > I'm running SIMH on a 233MHz Pentium-1 with rather good response. At > least, TOPS-10 seems as fast as it was at university loaded with > students... > > Regards, > -doug q Anybody have MDL compiler? I'll get back into PDP-10 hacking if I can find one. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 26 10:04:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: old RAID canister wanted References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <001901c115e4$492e9180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've got an aging (1991-92) Storage Dimensions RAID box that uses canisters with SDI's part number B68221, with the further designation of "Module Asm,Hot Plug," followed by the drive model number. I need another such canister. The original mfg, Storage Dimensions, was acquired by DotHill about 5 years back and they don't have any options to offer. Do any of you guys know where one might find such an oddity. thanks, Dick From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Jul 26 10:04:52 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks (was Re: hayes chronograph) In-Reply-To: <20010726140847.37189.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ethan Dicks wrote: [snip] > There is a transmitter in Colorado, but I am not aware of any hobby projects > to take advantage of it. They did start building VCRs that could set > themselves off of a time signal broadcast over PBS stations, but I think I > heard something about that being a failed program and being discontinued > at some point. When I heard about it, it suggested to me that if the > atomic clock radio signal had good propgation characteristics, they would > have used that instead of a time signal from a TV station, but perhaps it's > more an issue of Daylight Savings Time. [snip] Actually, it's an issue of local time; having to enter a timezone or timezone offset would have defeated the concept of a VCR that "set itself". I believe the signal was (as with everything else) tossed somewhere in the VIR and was broadcast by both commercial and PBS stations -- although by far PBS had the greatest number of stations. The system was problematic for two reasons: (a) oftentimes the stations didn't maintain the timekeeping equipment (as in "the box is dead", must less that the time had drifted and (b) much more subtly, in many parts of the US the VCR would select a reference that was in a different timezone than the user. This would result in the clock being off by an hour (or for some folks in Arizona, off by an hour for part of the year). -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Jul 26 10:06:12 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited Message-ID: <89.9d0ca0a.28918be4@aol.com> In a message dated 7/26/01 10:25:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, vaxman@qwest.net writes: > Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap! > > How would YOU feel if someone broke into your computer system and took > YOUR files to do whatever he felt like with? Or hacked your voicemail > system and listened to your messages? > > I know your knee-jerk reaction... I don't have anything I care about > on my computer... First off, there is a HUGE difference between Hackers and Crackers. Hackers generally DO NOT make it a point to cause dammage - they are just "browsing" for the most part. > If your name, DOB, and SSN are ANYWHERE on your computer, a hacker can > steal your identity. A credit card number (perhaps from an letter you > typed in and FAXed to purchase something because you didn't want to > send your CC# across the internet)? Bank account numbers? ETrade > account numbers? You would FAX a credit card or account number? Why not just buy a billboard for it somewhere. Computer systems for online purchases use encryption for this information and I know we all know that on this list. Now before you go getting bent about my reply, let me quantify a little bit: I am not promoting hacking into someone's computer nor am I saying I want anyone roaming around in any of mine for any reason. What I am saying is I would much rather have a "hacker" in there than some damn "script kiddie" (which wasn't covered really in the show).. They are the bad ones - the crackers.. Now as far as the show, I though it was pretty good and tastfully done. On a personal note, while people like Kevin Mittman might "legally" be considered criminals my opinion is since they caused little or no dammage, and made no money off their "efforts" the FBI would have been better off spending my taxpayer money catching murderers or drug dealers, etc.. But, like I said, that's only my opinion. If you want to throw someone in jail for computer crimes, catch some of those 13 year old script kiddies that keep crashing computers and running DDOS attacks and hang them - AND their parents. At least with Mittman in your system, your system is still running. -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: homco8.ZIP Type: application/zip Size: 903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/697afc61/homco8.zip From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Jul 26 10:10:53 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: hackers - whoops Message-ID: <8a.9f1c6b8.28918cfd@aol.com> Sorry about the attachment on my last post guys and gals.. Writing 2 emails at the same time and attached to the wrong one.. At least it wasn't a really big attachment :-) -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 10:18:29 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Fun "events" for VCF In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010726151829.45741.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > Vintage geek clothing contest. > > > > wear... a t-sheet... > > -dq Is that what Roman Geeks wore? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com Thu Jul 26 10:27:27 2001 From: mjsnodgr at rockwellcollins.com (mjsnodgr@rockwellcollins.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws Message-ID: I just so happen to have that song... Came across it on a Computer-Humor songs tape. (And promptly backed the tape up to my hard drive) - M.S. ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)@classiccmp.org on 07/25/2001 04:36:22 PM Please respond to classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent by: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org cc: Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws > Is it just me, or could you imagine Tony Duell's team on a > high-tech version of Scrapheap Challenge/Junkyard Wars, > building a PDP-11 out of whatever they can find lying > around? Then toggling in the bootstrap... Years ago there was a filksong entitled 'You can build a mainframe from the things you find at home'... One of my friends came across it, turned to me and said 'In your workshop you probably could' :-) -tony From phil at ultimate.com Thu Jul 26 11:43:37 2001 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? Message-ID: <200107261643.f6QGhbQN003291@ultimate.com> > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:02:22 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ethan Dicks > > > The 11/782 was dual cpu 11/780's with shared memory bus run > > master-slave for compute bound tasks with the i/o run off of one > > cpu. > > Right. Developed by George Goble (of the LOX-on-the-BBQ fame), et. al, at > Purdue, IIRC. The 782 was the DEC solution, using a multiported memory (MA780). Each CPU had it's own SBI, with private UBA's and MBA's (UNIBUS and MASSBUSS adapters); VAX/VMS V3 VMS V3 supported three new processors: the VAX-11/750, VAX-11/725, VAX-11/782. V3 features included asymmetric multiprocessing (ASMP) for VAX-11/782, support for new architectures, protocols and busses, system communication architecture (SCS), mass storage control protocol (MSCP), lock management system services, and MONITOR utility for performance monitoring. VAX hardware reference - VAX 700 series; VAX 11/782 Nickname: Atlas Cpu: Dual KA780 Vup: 1.8 Bus: 2 SBIs with 15 nexus slots each. Each slot can take a UBA (UNIBUS adapter), MBA (MASSBUS Adapter), or CI. (?) Introduced: 1982 NetBSD: (?) Probably The Purdue work connected the two CPU's by replacing the SBI bus terminator with the second CPU. There aparently were also a few 11/784s, with 4 CPU's, also using the MA780. http://www.cam.anglia.ac.uk/~systimk/History/Vaxes.Txt, discusses it all, an includes a 1993 message from George. > My understanding was that the 11/785 was DEC's official implementation > of what George and crew cobbled together as the 11/782. It only saw > the light of day because, as you say, there was a gap in DEC's product > line with the delays in the 8600 and customers wanted more than what was > presently out there. The 785 was a late life kicker to the 780; It was not (by itself) a multiprocessor system. VAX-11/785 CPU cycle time in the VAX-11/785 was 133ns, 50% faster than the 200ns cycle time of the VAX-11/780. The accelerated cycle time allowed all CPU operations to run up to 50% faster, resulting in higher throughput, faster response time and the ability to support more users The NetBSD VAX hardware reference says that a 782 built from two 785's would have been called a "787" Disclaimer; I worked at DEC in the 80's, but on 36-bit products. (and briefly on the 64-bit RISC machine, codenamed "SAFE", which, after Cutler grabbed the project, was renamed PRISM). From dlinder at uiuc.edu Thu Jul 26 11:51:17 2001 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: argh was Re: FDDI In-Reply-To: <15199.57143.933913.570110@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > I apologize if my last remark (regarding FDDI, Ford Festivas, and > using the right tool for the job) sounded snotty. I'm just trying to > stand up for my principles, that combined with the fact that I'm in a I agree; Ethernet is all well and good (cheap, etc) - but I doubt that too many people would call it "elegant". Now FDDI (and other token-based protocols) - I would call elegant. Especially when you want to do any kind of worst-case analysis for real time or other sensitive applications. The ethernet story is amusing. Here's a protocol (based on ALOHA, which actually makes sense) that was initially bus-based that has since become more-or-less point-to-point, at MUCH higher speeds, and yet the underlying principles have never changed. So the whole point of ethernet has basically been nill'ed out by going to entirely switched networks. There comes a point to say "okay, time for something NEW". Again, not that ethernet isn't great - it works all over the place. But MAN - I am jealous of your 30-node FDDI network. Sweet. - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher From pechter at bg-tc-ppp499.monmouth.com Thu Jul 26 11:52:31 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp499.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <20010726140222.4454.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 26, 2001 07:02:22 am" Message-ID: <200107261652.f6QGqW703297@bg-tc-ppp499.monmouth.com> > > I was told the 11/785 was done in DEC Europe as a mid life kicker for > > the 11/780 when the Venus 11/790 -- er 11/860 -- er 8600 was VERY LATE > > getting built. > > > > Bill > > My understanding was that the 11/785 was DEC's official implementation > of what George and crew cobbled together as the 11/782. It only saw > the light of day because, as you say, there was a gap in DEC's product > line with the delays in the 8600 and customers wanted more than what was > presently out there. > > -ethan > Nah.. the multiport master slave was the 11/782. I installed one official one at RCA's Semiconductor ops in Somerset, NJ. I was told there was an 11/785 version called the 11/787. -Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jul 26 11:11:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > How would YOU feel if someone broke into your computer system and took > YOUR files to do whatever he felt like with? Or hacked your voicemail > system and listened to your messages? > > I know your knee-jerk reaction... I don't have anything I care about > on my computer... Not at all, I wasn't defending Mitnick's behvaiour at all, and if you'll recall, in a previous message I referred to him as a "criminal thug" and in the message you are replying to I did say he was spinning some revisionism on the story. > People who break into computers are criminals. If their intent is criminal then yes, they are criminals. > People who launch DDOS attacks are criminals. Sure. > Kevin Mitnick is a CONVICTED criminal, and has ADMITTED criminal > behaviour. I don't get teary-eyed thinking about the time he spent in > prison before the trial. He was a proven flight risk (he ran away > once, and hid out in Denver). Me either. But then you forget just how badly the US Gubment violated his civil rights. I don't know who's the bigger criminal in this case: Mitnick or the Government. And believe me, I fear the Government WAY more than I fear Mitnick. The Government is everywhere, and much more powerful. > I wonder how Littman would react if someone broke into HIS system. I'm sure he would not be happy, but at least he was honest and truthful about the whole affair. > PS I daily have probe attacks on my DSL system from script kiddies > looking to add another machine to their DDOS attack farm. Yeah, me too, but I don't obsess over it. I just make sure my security is tight and worry about more important things. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Jul 26 12:21:21 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... Message-ID: <26.18c752b9.2891ab91@aol.com> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001; "Daniel A. Segel" wrote: > I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data > Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything works fine > and the PC will boot up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can navigate around and > look at all the files, etc. > The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the 360K > floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost full.) > There are three ways I can imagine doing this: > 1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it to > my home network, > 2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running off a more modern controller (IDE?), > 3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC. > Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive? And joe suggested: > How about LapLink or FastLynx? I've used both of them A LOT and they > work great for situations like this. Another suggestion would be Brooklyn Bridge. You can transfer files using a cable connecting the two parallel ports together. Also will work with the serial ports Mike From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Jul 26 12:21:24 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! Message-ID: <25.18a8cfa0.2891ab94@aol.com> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001; Shaun Stephenson wrote: > I'm also new to the list... how did I miss it all this time?! Welcome > Nice to be in a new community - you guys certainly seem to collect way different > stuff to the UK guys! Well Shaun, it is this way. Since we crossed the pond to the colonies, we have undergone a genetic mutation with regards to out 'packrat' genes. We will haul home just about anything and everything, then the genes kick in and we just can't seem to part with it. So it becomes part of the collection. :^)) Wife's point of view :(( Mike From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Jul 26 12:21:22 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: VCFE Shopping List Message-ID: <6f.187698ef.2891ab92@aol.com> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001; "Cini, Richard" wrote: > ...whatever I get I have to sneak into the house :-) > "No, honey, really. I didn't buy anything more than this t-shirt." Rich, don't you think she will get suspicious when the t-shirt shows up in the laundry and she notices a size of XXXXXXXXL. She's gonna think to herself: "I thought he looked a little hefty when he came home, I wonder why????" :-) Mike From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1603.monmouth.com Thu Jul 26 12:44:00 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1603.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: heck, are 11/785s extinct? In-Reply-To: <200107261643.f6QGhbQN003291@ultimate.com> from Phil Budne at "Jul 26, 2001 12:43:37 pm" Message-ID: <200107261744.f6QHi0n03537@bg-tc-ppp1603.monmouth.com> > > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:02:22 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Ethan Dicks > > > > > The 11/782 was dual cpu 11/780's with shared memory bus run > > > master-slave for compute bound tasks with the i/o run off of one > > > cpu. > > > > Right. Developed by George Goble (of the LOX-on-the-BBQ fame), et. al, at > > Purdue, IIRC. > > The 782 was the DEC solution, using a multiported memory (MA780). > Each CPU had it's own SBI, with private UBA's and MBA's (UNIBUS and > MASSBUSS adapters); Actually, DEC didn't (back then) support any massbusses on the attached cpu... They dual-ported the memory in between the sbi's. The attached cpu usually ran no I/O devices and just worked on compute bound tasks... this was in the vms 3.2 or so range. Perhaps later they let the attached box have private disks. > Disclaimer; > I worked at DEC in the 80's, but on 36-bit products. > (and briefly on the 64-bit RISC machine, codenamed "SAFE", > which, after Cutler grabbed the project, was renamed PRISM). Hmm... how close was it to Alpha AXP -- almost exactly prism? Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Jul 26 12:54:56 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: VCFE Shopping List Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BE5@MAIL10> ROLF... -----Original Message----- From: Mzthompson@aol.com [mailto:Mzthompson@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:21 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VCFE Shopping List On Wed, 25 Jul 2001; "Cini, Richard" wrote: > ...whatever I get I have to sneak into the house :-) > "No, honey, really. I didn't buy anything more than this t-shirt." Rich, don't you think she will get suspicious when the t-shirt shows up in the laundry and she notices a size of XXXXXXXXL. She's gonna think to herself: "I thought he looked a little hefty when he came home, I wonder why????" :-) Mike From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 12:56:32 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: OT: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513D1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > You would FAX a credit card or account number? Why not just buy a billboard > for it somewhere. I haven't had a chance to ask him yet, but my former sociology professor has *every* piece of confidential information you'd normally expect people to protect openly listed on his web page. I'm sure he's trying to make a point; eventually, I'll ask... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 12:57:45 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Fun "events" for VCF Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513D2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > > > > Vintage geek clothing contest. > > > > > > > wear... a t-sheet... > > > > -dq > > Is that what Roman Geeks wore? only when in posse mode, and only when roman' [sic] the food court... ;-) -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 13:00:39 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513D3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Kevin Mitnick is a CONVICTED criminal, and has ADMITTED criminal > > behaviour. I don't get teary-eyed thinking about the time he spent in > > prison before the trial. He was a proven flight risk (he ran away > > once, and hid out in Denver). > > Me either. But then you forget just how badly the US Gubment violated his > civil rights. I don't know who's the bigger criminal in this case: > Mitnick or the Government. And believe me, I fear the Government WAY > more than I fear Mitnick. The Government is everywhere, and much more > powerful. Righto. I can think of some terrible things that might justify violating a citizen's civil rights; electronics sabotage is not, hwoever, amongst them... > > PS I daily have probe attacks on my DSL system from script kiddies > > looking to add another machine to their DDOS attack farm. > > Yeah, me too, but I don't obsess over it. I just make sure my security is > tight and worry about more important things. Yup. -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 13:02:43 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513D4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I'm running SIMH on a 233MHz Pentium-1 with rather good response. At > > least, TOPS-10 seems as fast as it was at university loaded with > > students... > > > > Regards, > > -doug q > > Anybody have MDL compiler? I'll get back into PDP-10 hacking if I can > find one. There's been discussion about it over on alt.sys.pdp10; not being a Zorkaphile, I haven't been following the discussion very closely... -dq From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 13:18:59 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513D4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010726181859.69275.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Anybody have MDL compiler? I'll get back into PDP-10 hacking if I can > > find one. > > There's been discussion about it over on alt.sys.pdp10; not being a > Zorkaphile, I haven't been following the discussion very closely... Thanks. I have access to an XKL-10 for regression testing of my zDungeon port of Zork to the Inform language, but the binary I have is several puzzles out of date (no Royal Puzzle, no Canary, no Bank, and, a few more). It's about 18 months older than the final version that was cut before the crew left to found Infocom. Of course, if anyone has a newer binary of Zork for the PDP-10, I'd welcome that, too. I'll go check out Deja.com and see what I can see on it. Thanks for the tip. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From marino13 at btinternet.com Thu Jul 26 13:29:40 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (Shaun Stephenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:04 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! References: <25.18a8cfa0.2891ab94@aol.com> Message-ID: <3B606194.4EFF3731@btinternet.com> > Well Shaun, it is this way. Since we crossed the pond to the colonies, we > have > undergone a genetic mutation with regards to out 'packrat' genes. We will > haul > home just about anything and everything, then the genes kick in and we just > can't seem to part with it. So it becomes part of the collection. :^)) > > Wife's point of view :(( haha - weird - girlfriends point of view too but we have smaller houses!!!! S From marino13 at btinternet.com Thu Jul 26 13:35:34 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (Shaun Stephenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: SGI Indigo keyboard? Message-ID: <3B6062F6.1C13C1A0@btinternet.com> Hi all... Anyone got a spare keyboard and mouse for an SGI Indigo Iris XS24? Its a fairly specific one, different to the later machines in that it supported a pass thru for the mouse actually ON the keynoard, kinda like a Mac does. Any leads would be appreciated Shaun From marino13 at btinternet.com Thu Jul 26 13:38:34 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (Shaun Stephenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! References: Message-ID: <3B6063A9.43683567@btinternet.com> > I'm also in the UK, but I have a fair range of minicomputers and the odd > workstation. Not all UK collectors like micros... > I appreciate that but I think its fair to say that probably the majority of UK collectors are micro-based! > > I'm not normally interested in games, but the Vectrex is one console I > spent real money on. Reason ? It's got the right CPU (68A09) and a vector > display. Vector displays are fun... > Bloody great machine and in good nick the screen is incredible. Wish I had one boxed :( > > Err, there are some other UK people on this list. And I am not sure how > my collection (a dozen PDP11s, a couple of PDP8s, a couple of VAXen, a > Sun, 4 PERQs, 3 P800s, an HP2100, and a lot of micros, of course), > differs from some US collections. Well you're probably in a moniroty but, as for arcade collecting (yes, I dabble in this too!), the US guys get a better share of the goodies, and generally get the really juicy goodies too. Still... looks like a nice collection mate, I'm jealous! Shaun From donm at cts.com Thu Jul 26 13:41:31 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Tektronix was Re: machine appraisals In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010726101704.00a4c200@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > At 06:00 PM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: > > >Is there any sort of group that does machine appraisals? > > > First, the Tektronix machines aren't nearly as collectable as others > such as HP, Atair, etc so they aren't worth nearly as much even though many > of them are considerably rarer. Sorry but that's just a fact of life, I > have a Tek 4051, Tek 31, 8051, 8054 and some others and I just GAVE away a > 8002. > > I think there are a few people like Herb Johnson, Don Maslin and > others around that have had a LOT of experience with machines and they can > give you a reasonable idea of what some machines are worth but the Tek 4054 > is such an odd machine that I doubt even they could give you anything more > than just a guess. There was a Tek 4051 that sold on E-bay about a year Thanks for the kudo Joe, but I really haven't a clue as to value. I never had much of an opportunity to use one, but to my recollection it was essentially a 4052 with an oversize video tube (17 or 19"?). It, of course, used the bit-slice processor as did the 4052 and was significantly faster than our 4051's. I am unsure whether it included the tape drive, but tend to assume that it did. If so, and working, that makes it a potentially usable unit as it sits - given some program tapes. Programmable in TEK Basic, of course. - don > ago but I don't remember what it went for but I don't think it was more > than a few hundred dollars. The auction page may be cached somehere and you > might be able to find it with a Google or other search. Since your machine > doesn't have manuals or ROMs it's value is probably considerably lower han > a complete machine. > > FWIW I have a working 4051 with ALL the manuals, ALL the ROMs, the > front test panel, ROM toaster, optional disk drives, plotter and a huge > load of prototype ROMs and other hardware. I have NO idea what it's worth. > > Good luck with it, > > Joe > > > >I have a > >Tektronix 4054 which I picked up a couple of years ago by accident and > >am interested in getting a general idea of what it is worth. The machine > >is in good shape with some scratches and damage to the enamel, is clean > >on the inside, and works. I do not have documentation or any peripherals. > > > > >>>Tom > > From sieler at allegro.com Thu Jul 26 13:47:49 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: HP 300 (was: "what the hell") In-Reply-To: <20010725.210334.80.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3B600365.27800.13EF9724@localhost> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/bdbf7cbf/attachment.bin From dlinder at uiuc.edu Thu Jul 26 14:18:01 2001 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: HP 300 (was: "what the hell") In-Reply-To: <3B600365.27800.13EF9724@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Stan Sieler wrote: > The CPU was CISC, silicon-on-saphire, and What a very interesting little machine. I am most intrigued. What do you mean by "silicon on saphire" though? - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher From ecloud at bigfoot.com Thu Jul 26 14:27:00 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks (was Re: hayes chronograph) In-Reply-To: ; from chris@mainecoon.com on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 08:04:52AM -0700 References: <20010726140847.37189.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010726122700.X1408@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> > > There is a transmitter in Colorado, but I am not aware of any hobby > projects > > to take advantage of it. They did start building VCRs that could set > > timezone than the user. This would result in the clock being off by an > hour (or for some folks in Arizona, off by an hour for part of the year). I have an alarm clock which sets itself from this signal. Of course the first such clock (old enough to be on topic, even) AFAIK was the Heathkit Most Accurate Clock. But those cost big bucks. Nowadays I'm seeing more commercial clocks which do this, at reasonable prices. WWV is broadcast on at least 5, 10 and 15 MHz (exactly); maybe other frequencies too, I'm not sure. And I think some of the transmitters are in other places besides Colorado, the idea being that everywhere in the US you can always receive at least one of them. I'm not sure which freq(s) these clocks listen to. I have to set the time zone on this clock. Since "Arizona" isn't a choice, I have to set it to MST in the winter and PST in the summer. When the daylight-savings time begins or ends, the clock gets off by an hour. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://ecloud.org kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 26 13:58:16 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub In-Reply-To: <006601c1158b$d9afd060$3900a8c0@bedroom2> References: <200107260241.f6Q2f3001107@shell1.aracnet.com> <002a01c11586$00b44660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >that's about it. Cable is more expensive, but for some layouts you need Maybe used to be more expensive, but coax is now the cheapest option from surplus sources. From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Jul 26 15:18:09 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks (was Re: hayes chronograph) In-Reply-To: <20010726140847.37189.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1158.606T450T8944115optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726161417.00a5b2d0@mail.wincom.net> At 07:08 AM 26/07/2001 -0700, you wrote: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > > > >Does anyone have the AT protocol spec for it? I've always been interested > > >in the concept of a timekeeper that I could read/set from machines that > > >were not ethernet/NTP-capable... > > > > I don't know what it's like in your part of the hemisphere... > >Not as nice as that... > > > but there's an > > atomic clock down in Germany which broadcasts its time. IUt's quite easy to > > obtain clocks which rely on its signal > >I have one. It's an add-on for a car with internal and external temp >sensors. I picked it up when I was in Munich last year and didn't >realize that you _can't_ set the time manually. I was figuring that it'd >be fun to have a thermometer, and the fact that we don't have the same >clock transmitter in the States wouldn't be a problem. It is. I have a >car thermometer that knows what time it is in Germany. > > > Anyway, that should be the optimal timekeeping device, assuming you can > come > > up with the hardware and that you're within reach of the transmitter. > >There is a transmitter in Colorado, but I am not aware of any hobby projects >to take advantage of it. They did start building VCRs that could set >themselves off of a time signal broadcast over PBS stations, but I think I >heard something about that being a failed program and being discontinued >at some point. When I heard about it, it suggested to me that if the >atomic clock radio signal had good propgation characteristics, they would >have used that instead of a time signal from a TV station, but perhaps it's >more an issue of Daylight Savings Time. > >-ethan > > Suggest you check out http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4, It > will set the time of your computer to any of a number of accurate > sources, US Navel Observatory, etc. When I got mine a few years ago, it > was a free download. Regards > Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jul 26 15:31:09 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: HP 300 (was: "what the hell") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think it's using sapphire as the substrate for the chip. ISTR, this is done primarily in space applications where radiation hardening is required. g. On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Dan Linder wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Stan Sieler wrote: > > > The CPU was CISC, silicon-on-saphire, and > > What a very interesting little machine. I am most intrigued. What do you > mean by "silicon on saphire" though? > > - Dan > > > Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu > Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science > - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant > - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jul 26 15:39:02 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks (was Re: hayes chronograph) In-Reply-To: <20010726122700.X1408@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: > I have an alarm clock which sets itself from this signal. Of course the > first such clock (old enough to be on topic, even) AFAIK was the Heathkit > Most Accurate Clock. But those cost big bucks. Nowadays I'm seeing more > commercial clocks which do this, at reasonable prices. My to-do list includes attaching a BASIC Stamp to the Chronograph with a WWV module attached to the Stamp. Should work out pretty well. :) g. From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Jul 26 15:29:21 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: In a bind - need someone to host transputer website Message-ID: <3B607DA1.3200A5DE@olf.com> Hi, Well, NBCi finally decided to get out of the webhosting business, so I need someone to host my website. NBCi was nice as it gave unlimited diskspace for free. I remember someone posted a message to the list indicating that he (was it Jay?) was willing to host any "classiccmp" related websites for free. Can anyone help me out? Thanks.... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From ojw at dircon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 15:29:58 2001 From: ojw at dircon.co.uk (Oliver Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: HP7978A tape drive Message-ID: <035d01c11611$bdb16820$7214fea9@glenmorangie> Hi - new to this list and wondered if anyone could point me in the direction of likely sources for user and/or (preferably) technical docs/manuals for HP7978A reel-to-reel tape drive? I have tried Monterey Bay but unfortunately no success). Many thanks in advance. Oliver -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/078e6f2e/attachment.html From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 15:36:14 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: HP 300 (was: "what the hell") Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513D7@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Stan Sieler wrote: > > > The CPU was CISC, silicon-on-saphire, and > > What a very interesting little machine. I am most intrigued. > What do you mean by "silicon on saphire" though? I wasn't following the earlier part of this, but chips that are bound for use in satellites often use sapphire as the substrate... something to do with resiliancy in a high cosmic-ray environment... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jul 26 15:37:32 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513D8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Anybody have MDL compiler? I'll get back into PDP-10 hacking if I can > > > find one. > > > > There's been discussion about it over on alt.sys.pdp10; not being a > > Zorkaphile, I haven't been following the discussion very closely... > > Thanks. I have access to an XKL-10 for regression testing of my zDungeon > port of Zork to the Inform language, but the binary I have is several > puzzles out of date (no Royal Puzzle, no Canary, no Bank, and, a few more). > It's about 18 months older than the final version that was cut before > the crew left to found Infocom. > > Of course, if anyone has a newer binary of Zork for the PDP-10, I'd welcome > that, too. > > I'll go check out Deja.com and see what I can see on it. > Thanks for the tip. Better purge those deja.com links before they go stale... point yourself instead at: http://groups.google.com Regards, -dq From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jul 26 16:00:51 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: HP 300 (was: "what the hell") In-Reply-To: from "Gene Buckle" at Jul 26, 2001 01:31:09 PM Message-ID: <200107262100.f6QL0pj11339@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I think it's using sapphire as the substrate for the chip. ISTR, this is > done primarily in space applications where radiation hardening is > required. > > > > The CPU was CISC, silicon-on-saphire, and > > > > What a very interesting little machine. I am most intrigued. What do you > > mean by "silicon on saphire" though? Didn't the 1802 microprocessor use this technology? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From spc at conman.org Thu Jul 26 16:18:44 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" at Jul 26, 2001 07:42:30 AM Message-ID: <200107262118.RAA21258@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" once stated: > > Kevin Mitnick is a CONVICTED criminal, and has ADMITTED criminal > behaviour. I don't get teary-eyed thinking about the time he spent > in prison before the trial. He was a proven flight risk (he ran > away once, and hid out in Denver). > > I wonder how Littman would react if someone broke into HIS system. Somebody did. And it was Mitnick, of all people 8-) -spc (Littman's reaction? Write a book 8-) From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 16:26:17 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: HP 300 (was: "what the hell") In-Reply-To: <200107262100.f6QL0pj11339@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010726212617.54234.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > I think it's using sapphire as the substrate for the chip. ISTR, this is > > done primarily in space applications where radiation hardening is > > required. > Didn't the 1802 microprocessor use this technology? Yes. That's why it went out on the Voyager probes. V'ger is descended from the COSMAC Elf. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From marino13 at btinternet.com Thu Jul 26 16:40:49 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (Shaun Stephenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Apple varients? Message-ID: <3B608E61.54D9CB15@btinternet.com> Quick, probably quite stupid, question... but can anyone tell me what exactly teh differences are between teh various "flavours" of Apple II? I.e. the IIe, IIc, IIee, IIcp etc? Cheers! Shaun From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 12:38:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <10107260025.ZM871@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 25, 1 11:25:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/35c2ebdd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 16:24:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: hayes chronograph In-Reply-To: <10107261418.ZM1335@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 26, 1 01:18:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/e1261959/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 16:27:46 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Jul 26, 1 10:23:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 683 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/10c4df3d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 16:03:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub In-Reply-To: <002a01c11586$00b44660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Jul 25, 1 11:49:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1327 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/d3e5521a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 16:05:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <20010726040943.97600.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 25, 1 09:09:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/b81e560a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 16:10:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Next N4000 Megapixel -- whats c57 and C201B? In-Reply-To: <003d01c1159f$ab9c11c0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> from "Claude.W" at Jul 26, 1 02:53:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1406 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/c08c4641/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 26 16:53:59 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Apple varients? In-Reply-To: from "Shaun Stephenson" at Jul 26, 2001 10:40:49 PM Message-ID: <200107262153.f6QLrxN13443@shell1.aracnet.com> > Quick, probably quite stupid, question... but can anyone tell me what > exactly teh differences are between teh various "flavours" of Apple II? > I.e. the IIe, IIc, IIee, IIcp etc? Not off the top of my head, the info is in the Apple ][ FAQ, but I've no idea where you can find it these days. Zane From west at tseinc.com Fri Jul 27 05:09:04 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: In a bind - need someone to host AND free offer to classiccmp members References: <3B607DA1.3200A5DE@olf.com> Message-ID: <003101c11684$2c01e3a0$0101a8c0@jay> No problem, I'd be happy to host the classiccomputer (transputer) website you mentioned. Just drop me an email to west@tseinc.com (and also cc jlwest@tseinc.com) with the particulars you need. I'll take care of it for you, no charge. Ok, here's a shameless plug, but hey, it's for a free service to you folks... To re-iterate for the rest of the list (hopefully no one is too sick of hearing it, but I'm repeating it for the newbies), I own an ISP. No, we're not a hole in the wall outfit run out of a basement, or just some guy with a (YUCK) xDSL connection. We have a real datacenter with FM-200, it sits on two separate power grids to the city, 7.5gw of backup diesel power, and a huge ups to carry through the switchover to generator in the event both city grids fail. It's a secure site with video survellience, biometric access controls, etc. and our backbone connectivity has to be seen to be believed. We're fortunate to have our datacenter in the same building that all the backbone providers do, so we only pay for bandwidth and port charges to backbone providers, no "large" latency hops through DSx's and routers. For those technogeeks interested, all our gear is cisco 7206VXR routers, HP Procurve 4000M switches (the network is totally switched 100mb ethernet, with gigabit fiber between all switches), and virtually every service (pop, smtp, http, ntp, nntp, ftp, etc.) is handled by separate server farms (with the exception of the machine that hosts the classiccmp majordomo list, it runs on one of our mailservers). No machine runs multiple services and every machine has an automated failover system in the event that machine fails. We are a Unix shop, so all the machines run FreeBSD (except about 10 or 12 servers that run Win2K (Double YUCK) for ASP services). What I'm getting at is that if you have your classiccmp-related site hosted by us, you can be sure of excellent bandwidth and first tier reliability, at zero cost. Ok, if someone sends me some HP 7900A or 7920 drives, that would be nice :) If anyone has a website or ftp site (or mailing list, etc. etc.) that is classiccmp related, just drop me a line and we'll take care of it no charge. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Ram Meenakshisundaram To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:29 PM Subject: In a bind - need someone to host transputer website > Hi, > > Well, NBCi finally decided to get out of the webhosting business, so > I need someone to host my website. NBCi was nice as it gave unlimited > diskspace for free. I remember someone posted a message to the list > indicating that he (was it Jay?) was willing to host any "classiccmp" > related websites for free. Can anyone help me out? Thanks.... > > Ram > > -- > > ,,,, > /'^'\ > ( o o ) > -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- > | Ram Meenakshisundaram | > | Senior Software Engineer | > | OpenLink Financial Inc | > | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | > | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | > ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- > \_) ) / > (_/ > > > > From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Jul 26 17:11:10 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: OT Jurassic Park In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010724193248.02595520@pop.bol.ucla.edu> Message-ID: > What about the Thinking Machines Connection Machine 5? The CM-5? I > thought that was the really impressive box along with all the verbal and > visual plugs for the company that since "went bankrupt." Two machines were used on the set - specifically, two mockups. The chassis were very empty, save the power supply for the blinkenlights. The panels were mounted in a strange way, and most of the LEDs were blanked out with electrical tape. They never were supercomputers - the one I just rolled off my trailer does not have a serial number, and was probably built up from an unused frame. The other machine is apparently in an amusement park. I tried giving the frame away a few weeks ago on the list, and just the other day someone claimed it. The panels are quite interesting, as they have some brains. They are capable of several modes, including node data, diagnostics, and random blinking. I have a few extra panels now (eight were originally installed, and I needed to take four). If anyone has a "LSN" (Least Significant Node, to coin a phrase) panel - the one that starts with "Node 1" and goes up to "Node 64"* - I would like to hear from you, and would be willing to trade for another working panel (and a movie star, too). * Actually, due to the nature of the machines, the node numbering was a bit strange. I think it is 1 thru 64. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 16:47:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <3B6063A9.43683567@btinternet.com> from "Shaun Stephenson" at Jul 26, 1 07:38:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1319 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/561bb339/attachment.ksh From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jul 26 17:41:07 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 inventory References: <008201c10177$690f9750$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <001301c11564$b07a9120$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3B609C83.D9BEE13F@idirect.com> >Mike Kenzie wrote: > Anyone in the Ottawa area interested in helping? Jerome Fine replies: Which OS will you use? > I hope to have pictures soon. Did any software come with the 11/34? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jul 26 17:41:14 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home References: <200107260241.f6Q2f3001107@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3B609C8A.9A83DDB2@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > [Snip] > > Where I see emulation as useful is when you need a laptop version of the > system, or you just don't have a chance of getting the hardware (and/or > don't have the space even if you could). There are also commercial > situations where using a emulator makes good business sense. Oh, the other > use, in the case of the PDP-8 emulators with front panel emulation, is so > that you can see what you should be seeing when running diagnostics on a > system you're trying to repair (when you've never used a PDP-8). Jerome Fine replies: While I probably don't really understand someone who's goal is using the original hardware, on the other hand, I find that any software development under an emulator is much more straight forward, much easier AND MUCH FASTER. For example, on a real 11/83, it takes about 6 minutes to assemble one of the files I am working on. Even with a Pentium 166 MMX, it takes only a couple of seconds more than 2 minutes - which is more than long enough to wait. Plus a full scale test to produce more than a dozen versions on the real hardware takes more than an hour. Under emulation, under 30 minutes. Then, there is the use of ram for memory. On the real hardware, I need almost 15 MBytes for a full test. Using real hard drives slows things down. Under the emulator, with just 128 MBytes of total memory, the RAM: disks provide me with THREE 32 MByte "disk" drives. I am sure that very little, if any, new development is taking place for PDP-11 software, but when it does take place, even if a final checkout on real hardware is needed as the final step, an emulator seems a bit more practical. Even when I crash the operating system because of a stupid mistake, I rarely loose even the VM: disk from the operating system since the emulator boot code does not clear all of memory as the DEC hardware boot code does. And although I might lose the emulated hard disks that are in RAM:, I can't remember the last time that happened. PLUS, since the container files that represent the starting point of the OS are READ ONLY, they are never overwritten - I can do that on the real PDP-11 hardware, of course, but it is less convenient. Note that I am not trying to contradict Zane where he is looking at the situation from a hardware point of view, but to add to the software side of the picture and suggest that an emulator has certain advantages. Mind you, when I am using a VT320 on a COM: port and I forget that the operating system has been locked out while the debug program has control, even with a simple DL emulation, no input characters are lost, although nothing happens on the output end until normal operation proceeds. With a real PDP-11, those input characters on a DL channel are just lost. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Jul 26 17:58:05 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: References: <3B6063A9.43683567@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010726185805.018108c0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: >> > I'm not normally interested in games, but the Vectrex is one console I >> > spent real money on. Reason ? It's got the right CPU (68A09) and a vector >> > display. Vector displays are fun... Hmmm... The Hitachi 6309 is a pretty interesting CPU, too... ;-) >> Well you're probably in a moniroty but, as for arcade collecting (yes, >> I dabble in >> this too!), the US guys get a better share of the goodies, and > >That is certainly the case. On the other hand, there are some machines >that are common in the UK and much rarer in the States (tbe BBC micro >being an obvious example). And some machines that are essentially unknown >in the States (are there any Acorn System racks of eurocards in the States?) (OT) I just picked up a Gottlieb 1974-vintage pinball machine, in (mostly) working order - it's got no computers, however... And, I'd *love* to have a PERQ -- they sould like a *very* fun machine. Oh, well... mebbe someday I'll get a chance to visit Jolly Ol' England... Laterz, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jul 26 17:53:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010726185805.018108c0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Jul 26, 1 06:58:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 881 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010726/5fd183de/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 26 17:46:44 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Fun "events" for VCF In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >> >> Vintage geek clothing contest. >> > >heh. the winner should be someone who manages to find a way >to wear both a t-sheet and a pocket protector... How about a belt with two calculators and a slide rule? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 26 18:01:46 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <25.18a8cfa0.2891ab94@aol.com> Message-ID: >undergone a genetic mutation with regards to out 'packrat' genes. We will >haul home just about anything and everything, then the genes kick in and >we just >can't seem to part with it. So it becomes part of the collection. :^)) You aren't REALLY a true packrat until you realize you can't bring home more than a small bag of groceries because of the computer stuff in your car that you don't have room to put in your house. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jul 26 17:55:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks (was Re: hayes chronograph) In-Reply-To: References: <20010726140847.37189.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >parts of the US the VCR would select a reference that was in a different >timezone than the user. This would result in the clock being off by an >hour (or for some folks in Arizona, off by an hour for part of the year). Our $69 Toshiba has this problem with our cable system, ie if it tracks WTBS instead of KCAL or some other local station we have to play with setting it manually to a local station. The simple solution would be for ALL stations to transmit GMT and locally each person would set the offset, but that may have some daylight savings time glitches. I am a bit behind in reading my email, but I am surprized nobody is talking about internet time servers, which I have been using for about 4 years. From rdd at smart.net Thu Jul 26 18:41:42 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <3B609C8A.9A83DDB2@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > Jerome Fine replies: > > While I probably don't really understand someone who's goal is using the > original hardware, on the other hand, I find that any software development Hmmmm, this IS the classiccmp list isn't it? > under an emulator is much more straight forward, much easier AND MUCH > FASTER. ...and emulators are very, very, boring; and, if run under M$-Windoze, much less reliable and more likely to crash or lose data. The sound of fans, the chatter and kerchunking of disk drives, the clicking contactors when mains power is applied, the vacuum and whirring sounds of a mag tape drive starting up, the blinking of lights, etc. are all parts of the experience of using vintage computer systems. Aye Jerome, surely you don't want to be thought of as an anti-classic-computer emulator loving weenie, do you? ;-) After all, can it not be said that emulators are, for the most part, preferred by weenies who can't lift a PDP-11/44 PSU and are afraid of being shocked by one, who can't pop a tall cabinet into the back of a real, not one of those little foreign match-box size, station station wagons to haul it home, who don't know a screwdriver from an SMD drive cable, or who can't even figure out how to disassemble and reassemble a couple of linked paperclips? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com Thu Jul 26 18:31:16 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Ethernet -- thicknet and thinnet before 10BaseT In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Jul 26, 2001 10:03:02 pm" Message-ID: <200107262331.f6QNVGu04738@bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com> > Several transceivers connected to the same cable allow several machines > to communicate. In a sense, the transceivers together with the coax cable > form the hub. > > The T-pieces are, indeed passive (all 3 connectors connected in parallel > in the obvious way), but they're not really the hub. > > > -tony It's really that the hub doesn't exist on a bus network like 10Base2 or 10Base5... all the Tee connectors are doing is replacing the vampire tap on thicknet... The thinnet "Transceiver" is really built on to the card on most PC's and is the same (basically) as the old thicknet transceiver attached to my Sun my Unix boxes -- they can go from Thinnet to Thicknet by swapping the N-Connector top to the BNC connector top. And thinnet can go to thicknet with just an N to BNC adapter -- but the max length and specs drop to thinnet specs. Hubs really distort the logical ethernet bus topology. Now 10/100 switches really screw with it. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From spc at conman.org Thu Jul 26 18:45:42 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 26, 2001 07:41:42 PM Message-ID: <200107262345.TAA21530@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great R. D. Davis once stated: > > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > While I probably don't really understand someone who's goal is using the > > original hardware, on the other hand, I find that any software development > > Hmmmm, this IS the classiccmp list isn't it? True, but there are some of us that are more interested in old software than the hardware. I for one, love to study old operating systems and see just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix (the two worst things to happen to the industry but some might argue about the Unix bit 8-) -spc (Have compiler, will program ... ) From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 26 18:46:32 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 26, 2001 10:27:46 PM Message-ID: <200107262346.f6QNkWd18848@shell1.aracnet.com> > Hmm... I think I'd rather have a go at making a real PDP10.... That could > be an 'interesting' project.... > > -tony > There is currently a project underway to do an FPGA implemenation of a PDP-10 (I forget which CPU). The person working on this seems to be making fairly good progress. Zane From rdd at smart.net Thu Jul 26 19:08:29 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: PERQs (was: I'm *ALSO* new to this list) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010726185805.018108c0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Roger Merchberger wrote: > And, I'd *love* to have a PERQ -- they sould like a *very* fun machine. > > Oh, well... mebbe someday I'll get a chance to visit Jolly Ol' England... Some PERQs have been rumored to have been PERQing here on this side of the pond, and are rumored to have been created as well over here. :-) > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. Heh... try convincing the average personnel 'droidocrat in some large corporation stuffed with other 'droidocrats of that... strange things happen in those Dilbert zones [an extremely bizarre rendition of the "Twighlight Zone" theme song is heard playing off in the distance]. Funny thing, I think I may have just greatly offended a few of them when I sent them a bill for the time it took to complete a very long and annoying pre-interview technical questionnaire; apparently not a good company to work for if they got that annoyed. My suggestion is that we all start charging for our time during the interview process; if we all did it, the'd have no choice but to pay us. :-) Please pass the word, demand an independent consulting type of rate (e.g., between US$120 and US$200 per hour) for the interview time! Perhaps if all employees demanded to be independent contractors, we'd see lots of changes in Dilbertville. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com Thu Jul 26 19:04:18 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jul 26, 2001 07:41:42 pm" Message-ID: <200107270004.f6R04IM05220@bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com> R. D. Davis wrote: > ...and emulators are very, very, boring; and, if run under M$-Windoze, > much less reliable and more likely to crash or lose data. The sound > of fans, the chatter and kerchunking of disk drives, the clicking > contactors when mains power is applied, the vacuum and whirring sounds > of a mag tape drive starting up, the blinking of lights, etc. are all > parts of the experience of using vintage computer systems. Sure and I've even seen PDP8 emulation that clicked the teletype sounds and and ran an Xterm window in 110 baud. (well, perhaps I was dreaming on the sounds part). If I smelled thoe overheated fans I'd have thought it was a real PDP8e. As far as the windows part it isn't what I'm running (unless I have to for work). My Vaxstation's starting to look like fun -- but I do miss the PDP11/03 front end rx01 init clicks and the microdiagnostics. But I can't afford the space or power for one in order to run the microdiags to test wcs. I did RT11 on the RT11 emulator on the Vax at DEC and the sysgens seemed just the same as the ones on the 11/40 I used when I could borrow it in the Princeton office and the emulated RT11 box could write files to the floppy on the 11/780 that I could boot on my home PDT11/150. Couldn't do that with the RK05's, RL02's and RM02's on the 11/40. Bill bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From louiss at gate.net Thu Jul 26 19:05:40 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: Apple varients [sic]? In-Reply-To: <3B608E61.54D9CB15@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <200107270005.UAA30290@smtp6.mindspring.com> On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:40:49 +0100, Shaun Stephenson wrote: #Quick, probably quite stupid, question... but can anyone tell me what #exactly teh differences are between teh various "flavours" of Apple II? #I.e. the IIe, IIc, IIee, IIcp etc? # #Cheers! #Shaun # The question may be quick, but the answer is not. The reason: the Apple II in its versions was in production seventeen (17!) years, 1977-1993. So, while it didn't change that much (a testimony to its original design), there is quite a bit of space to cover. There are many articles and faqs on the history of the Apple II on the web. Louis From west at tseinc.com Fri Jul 27 07:08:09 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home References: Message-ID: <009501c11694$cddd7c60$0101a8c0@jay> Someone wrote... ----- Original Message ----- > > While I probably don't really understand someone who's goal is using the > > original hardware, on the other hand, I find that any software development > > under an emulator is much more straight forward, much easier AND MUCH > > FASTER. Ummmmmmm if software development under a given emulator is much more straight forward and much easier, wouldn't that mean it's not a very good emulator? And as to the "much faster" part, for purist reasons, I put a config flag in my HP 2100/21MX/7900/7948/7970 emulator that attempts to present a similar instruction execution speed profile as the original hardware. Of course I turn it off for development, but.... *G* Jay West From pechter at bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com Thu Jul 26 19:06:45 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107262345.TAA21530@conman.org> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at "Jul 26, 2001 07:45:42 pm" Message-ID: <200107270006.f6R06jH09937@bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com> -spc (Have compiler, will program ... said: > > True, but there are some of us that are more interested in old software > than the hardware. I for one, love to study old operating systems and see > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix > (the two worst things to happen to the industry but some might argue about > the Unix bit 8-) > > -spc (Have compiler, will program ... ) No arguments from this ex-DEC Field Grunt turned Unix Sysadmin. Actually, I'll live with BSD but SysV with the self-destruct filesystem made me like the VMS Mount verification in progress message a lot. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From allain at panix.com Thu Jul 26 17:45:37 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub References: Message-ID: <016801c11630$c7063a80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Actually I Was just considering a pair 10bT/2 transcievers for just that purpose, portable, cable-powered hub, for 10bT equipment Tony, Even if we all ante'd up 2? a recipient, as if your answers amounted to the proverbial "2? worth", we would STILL owe you hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Of course we all know your answers are worth quite a bit more. I.E.: Thanks Again! John A. From terryc at woa.com.au Thu Jul 26 19:11:52 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home References: <200107262345.TAA21530@conman.org> Message-ID: <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix > (the two worst things to happen to the industry but some might argue about > the Unix bit 8-) At the risk of pandering to a troll, what were/are the alternatives? I am not interesting in hearing about MS as having had to deal with it for 17 years, I've lived why it was a bad thing. Unix - well fragmentation is the only thing I can think of, which is being mirrored in Linux these days. what alternative(s) was there? -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 26 19:24:48 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:05 2005 Subject: HP7978A tape drive References: <035d01c11611$bdb16820$7214fea9@glenmorangie> Message-ID: <3B60B4D0.FA4B358@tiac.net> Try Crisis Computer at www.crisis.com Oliver Williams wrote: > Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: quoted-printable From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Jul 26 19:26:04 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: HP 300 (was: "what the hell") References: <200107262100.f6QL0pj11339@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B60B51C.693C94A5@tiac.net> There are some 1802 varients that use SOS, but your every-day 1802 from RCA was not SOS. Eric Dittman wrote: > > I think it's using sapphire as the substrate for the chip. ISTR, this is > > done primarily in space applications where radiation hardening is > > required. > > > > > > The CPU was CISC, silicon-on-saphire, and > > > > > > What a very interesting little machine. I am most intrigued. What do you > > > mean by "silicon on saphire" though? > > Didn't the 1802 microprocessor use this technology? > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net From red at bears.org Thu Jul 26 19:21:09 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Looking for AS/400 help Message-ID: Hi there. This is not on-topic for the list, since it's a newer RISC model, but if there is anybody listening who knows aught about AS/400 who wouldn't mind giving me a hand with this 9406 I just bought from a dot-gone auction, I could use some help getting it set up and checked out. Help local to the Seattle area would be a bonus. Contact me off list if I can pick your brain. Thanks! ok r. From ecloud at bigfoot.com Thu Jul 26 19:29:24 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:03:02PM +0100 References: <002a01c11586$00b44660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20010726172923.Y1408@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:03:02PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > It's better to think of the 'hub' as being distributed in the 10base2 > transceivers (the modules that connect between the AUI port and the Well I have seen hubs to which coax is connected. Some were probably arcnet, but weren't coax hubs ever used for thinnet? Maybe to boost the signal and get past the length limitation, or maybe to isolate "problem" branches so they don't interfere with other branches? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://ecloud.org kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From rdd at smart.net Thu Jul 26 19:47:00 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107262345.TAA21530@conman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > True, but there are some of us that are more interested in old software > than the hardware. I for one, love to study old operating systems and see Actually, that sounds like a very worthwhile thing to do. :-) > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix Lots... What do you think about a UNIX-AOS/VS-VMS-MPE-Guardian hybrid? > (the two worst things to happen to the industry but some might argue about > the Unix bit 8-) As much as I like UNIX, I'd also like to see more of a variety in the area of popular operating systems. Having only UNIX and M$-Windoze as popular operating systems isn't much of a choice. Doesn't that limited choice stifle innovation and creativity? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com Thu Jul 26 19:41:49 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub In-Reply-To: <20010726172923.Y1408@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at "Jul 26, 2001 05:29:24 pm" Message-ID: <200107270041.f6R0fnh11124@bg-tc-ppp382.monmouth.com> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:03:02PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > It's better to think of the 'hub' as being distributed in the 10base2 > > transceivers (the modules that connect between the AUI port and the > > Well I have seen hubs to which coax is connected. Some were probably > arcnet, but weren't coax hubs ever used for thinnet? Maybe to boost > the signal and get past the length limitation, or maybe to isolate > "problem" branches so they don't interfere with other branches? > > -- > _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com > (_ | |_) http://ecloud.org kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org > __) | | \________________________________________________________________ > > There were thinnet repeaters which provided segment isolation and regenerated the signal onto other segments... The DEC Delni comes to mind. Bill From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 26 19:42:47 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 26, 2001 07:41:42 PM Message-ID: <200107270042.f6R0gml21863@shell1.aracnet.com> > > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > While I probably don't really understand someone who's goal is using the > > original hardware, on the other hand, I find that any software development > > Hmmmm, this IS the classiccmp list isn't it? > > > under an emulator is much more straight forward, much easier AND MUCH > > FASTER. > > ...and emulators are very, very, boring; and, if run under M$-Windoze, > much less reliable and more likely to crash or lose data. The sound > of fans, the chatter and kerchunking of disk drives, the clicking > contactors when mains power is applied, the vacuum and whirring sounds > of a mag tape drive starting up, the blinking of lights, etc. are all > parts of the experience of using vintage computer systems. > > Aye Jerome, surely you don't want to be thought of as an > anti-classic-computer emulator loving weenie, do you? ;-) After all, > can it not be said that emulators are, for the most part, preferred by > weenies who can't lift a PDP-11/44 PSU and are afraid of being shocked > by one, who can't pop a tall cabinet into the back of a real, not one > of those little foreign match-box size, station station wagons to haul > it home, who don't know a screwdriver from an SMD drive cable, or who > can't even figure out how to disassemble and reassemble a couple of > linked paperclips? You know, while Jerome and I each have our preferences, I've got to admit that for him, emulation makes a lot more sense. Shoot, I'll even admit that at this point, PDP-11 emulation would almost make more sense for myself. Of course neither of my main PDP-11's are exactly normal. My /73 has SCSI tape, CD-ROM and removable 3.5" 1/3 Hieght SCSI Hard Drives, as a result, in spite of being in a BA123, it's quieter than some of my modern hardware. My /44 might have RL02's, but it's primary disks are SCSI. As a result I've got capabilities on my PDP-11's that aren't really available on the emulators available to hobbyists. As for everything you say above on disk drives, I personally wouldn't even consider using any Hard Drives larger than 5 1/4", and I try to stick with 3 1/2". Why? Electricity costs, noise, heat, AND the amount of physical space that they take up. Emulators aren't boring, unless all you're interested in is the hardware. Personally I like them. They let you run software you wouldn't otherwise be able to run. The perfect examples are ts10, simh, and hercules. The first two will allow you to run PDP-10 software, and the last allows you to run IBM 360, 370, etc. software. Granted there are a few PDP-10's in Hobbyist hands (though I'm not sure any are fully operational), but I'm not aware of any hobbyist having a fully operational IBM Mainframe. Thanks to simh, I've got a emulated KS10 sitting on the net running TOPS-10 7.03. That makes me pretty happy with emulation. Oh, and as for stability, I had TOPS-10 running for nearly 40 days straight at one point, it stopped running because *OpenBSD* crashed! That's the second time that OpenBSD has crashed on me in nearly 3 years on that system. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 26 19:48:22 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Jay West" at Jul 27, 2001 07:08:09 AM Message-ID: <200107270048.f6R0mP722163@shell1.aracnet.com> > And as to the "much faster" part, for purist reasons, I put a config flag in > my HP 2100/21MX/7900/7948/7970 emulator that attempts to present a similar > instruction execution speed profile as the original hardware. Of course I > turn it off for development, but.... *G* Interesting point. IIRC, the Macintosh PDP-8/e emulator has an option to run at native speeds, however, I don't think any of the PDP-11 emulators do. Of course other than clock skew that I've seen, the faster the PDP-11 the better :^) Same thing goes for the PDP-10, the faster the better (and on at least the simh PDP-10 emulator the clock skew problem has been solved). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 26 19:54:27 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Terry Collins" at Jul 27, 2001 10:11:52 AM Message-ID: <200107270054.f6R0sR222464@shell1.aracnet.com> > Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix > > (the two worst things to happen to the industry but some might argue about > > the Unix bit 8-) > > At the risk of pandering to a troll, what were/are the alternatives? > > I am not interesting in hearing about MS as having had to deal with it > for 17 years, I've lived why it was a bad thing. > > Unix - well fragmentation is the only thing I can think of, which is > being mirrored in Linux these days. > > what alternative(s) was there? Why do you speak in the past tense? While at work, I do UNIX, at home I use two *very* good alternatives, OpenVMS and MacOS (ok, so it's turning into another OS, but I'm not using OS X). There is also Amiga OS, version 3.9 was released a couple months ago. TOS systems are still available new. Then there are the various non-UNIX OS's that IBM has. Let's not forget the PDP-11 OS's that are still in active use, and still seeing some development (nor forget the fact you can still buy new PDP-11's). Shoot, TOPS-20 is still around on XKL's hardware. Of all of the above, as many here know, my personal favorite is OpenVMS, and it's a very real, very good, and very actively developed alternative. Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 20:13:09 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <3B609C8A.9A83DDB2@idirect.com> Message-ID: <20010727011309.77934.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jerome Fine wrote: > >Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > [Snip] > > > > Where I see emulation as useful is when you need a laptop version of the > > system, or you just don't have a chance of getting the hardware... > While I probably don't really understand someone who's goal is using the > original hardware, on the other hand, I find that any software development > under an emulator is much more straight forward, much easier AND MUCH > FASTER. I agree with that. Even though I have a raft of PET hardware, it was several times faster to hack the Infocom ZIP program from the C-64 to the PET under VICE on my SPARC5 than to do it on the real thing. I used to develop software on the C-64 and Apple ][ back in the day when they were tops in the home. We had one C-64 for editing/printing, one for compiling and one for running. I rolled my chair up and down the aisle, sneakernet on wheels. I could get an edit/compile/test cycle down to a few minutes that way. For the ZIP port, I had emacs open to the source, a shell window for a cross-compiler, and a VICE window with a Zork-I disk image mounted as drive 8 and the local directory mounted as drive 9. The things I could have written in 1984 if I'd had that developement environment! The proof, of course, is that it works on the real thing. So far, I haven't gotten around to that because I have no working BASIC 3.0 PETs and the code I have doesn't work under BASIC 4.0 (zero page conflicts with the kernal) Someday, though, I'll dig out my oldest PET (the one I got new in grade school) and put the finishing touches on it. For some odd reason, all I've picked up in the way of PETs since then have been 8032s and maybe one fat-40. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 20:21:41 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: epochs (was Re: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010726161417.00a5b2d0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <20010727012141.8041.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Charles E. Fox" wrote: > > Suggest you check out http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4, It > > will set the time of your computer to any of a number of accurate > > sources, US Navel Observatory, etc. I did. Thanks. One interesting thing is they reprint part of RFC 868, "Time Protocol". It seems to specifiy unsigned 32-bit time in seconds since 1-Jan-1900, 00:00 UTC as the basis for timekeeping. What's interesting are the conversion constants they provide in the RFC: The server listens for a datagram on port 37. When a datagram arrives, the server returns a datagram containing the 32-bit time value. If the server is unable to determine the time at its site, it should discard the arriving datagram and make no reply. The Time The time is the number of seconds since 00:00 (midnight) 1 January 1900 GMT, such that the time 1 is 12:00:01 am on 1 January 1900 GMT; this base will serve until the year 2036. For example: the time 2,208,988,800 corresponds to 00:00 1 Jan 1970 GMT, 2,398,291,200 corresponds to 00:00 1 Jan 1976 GMT, 2,524,521,600 corresponds to 00:00 1 Jan 1980 GMT, 2,629,584,000 corresponds to 00:00 1 May 1983 GMT, and -1,297,728,000 corresponds to 00:00 17 Nov 1858 GMT. OK... the first one is conversion to the UNIX epoch, the third is MS-DOS, the fifth, VMS. What are numbers 2 and 4? Mac uses 1904 (I think to avoid strange leap-year calculations - there are no dropped leap-years between 1904 and 2096, the years around then that skip are 1900 and 2100). Any ideas on those other two? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jul 26 20:38:29 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 26, 2001 08:47:00 PM Message-ID: <200107270138.f6R1cTO12038@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix > > Lots... What do you think about a UNIX-AOS/VS-VMS-MPE-Guardian hybrid? I've thought about this, myself. Almost any new OS wants to work like Unix. What I'd like to see is a community effort to make a new OS that does what needs to be done without worrying about being compatible with something that currently exists. Start off with a list of all the good things in different operating systems, then implement them in a way that works well. Sure, it may not have a lot of software available, but so what? The fun will be in developing something that is well-designed, well-implemented, and solid. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jul 26 20:40:04 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub In-Reply-To: from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 26, 2001 08:41:49 PM Message-ID: <200107270140.f6R1e4R12061@narnia.int.dittman.net> > There were thinnet repeaters which provided segment isolation and regenerated > the signal onto other segments... > > The DEC Delni comes to mind. I've got a DECrepeater 90C. It has six coax connectors for linking segments. I don't use it for anything, but I can't see throwing it away. Someone may need one sometime. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Jul 26 21:01:49 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <89.9d0ca0a.28918be4@aol.com> Message-ID: A point to ponder... Would it be okay for someone to enter your house and poke around in your closets? Watch your home movies on your VCR? Read your bank statements and credit card statements? If someone breaks into my computer, the invasion of privacy is not diminished in the least. I may have photos that weren't taken on paper because of privacy concerns. My banking records are stored there (no numbers though). YOUR email address is there. Someone can invade YOUR privacy by breaking into my computer. If someone trespasses on my property, they are a criminal. It doesn't matter to me if the trespass was electronic or not. Clint PS Why do you think a FAX is equivalent to a billboard? It is a lot easier to break into an etailer's computer and steal the whole database of customer information. On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/26/01 10:25:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > vaxman@qwest.net writes: > > > Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap! > > > > How would YOU feel if someone broke into your computer system and took > > YOUR files to do whatever he felt like with? Or hacked your voicemail > > system and listened to your messages? > > > > I know your knee-jerk reaction... I don't have anything I care about > > on my computer... > > First off, there is a HUGE difference between Hackers and Crackers. Hackers > generally DO NOT make it a point to cause dammage - they are just "browsing" > for the most part. > > > If your name, DOB, and SSN are ANYWHERE on your computer, a hacker can > > steal your identity. A credit card number (perhaps from an letter you > > typed in and FAXed to purchase something because you didn't want to > > send your CC# across the internet)? Bank account numbers? ETrade > > account numbers? > > You would FAX a credit card or account number? Why not just buy a billboard > for it somewhere. Computer systems for online purchases use encryption for > this information and I know we all know that on this list. > Now before you go getting bent about my reply, let me quantify a little bit: > I am not promoting hacking into someone's computer nor am I saying I want > anyone roaming around in any of mine for any reason. What I am saying is I > would much rather have a "hacker" in there than some damn "script kiddie" > (which wasn't covered really in the show).. They are the bad ones - the > crackers.. Now as far as the show, I though it was pretty good and tastfully > done. On a personal note, while people like Kevin Mittman might "legally" be > considered criminals my opinion is since they caused little or no dammage, > and made no money off their "efforts" the FBI would have been better off > spending my taxpayer money catching murderers or drug dealers, etc.. But, > like I said, that's only my opinion. If you want to throw someone in jail > for computer crimes, catch some of those 13 year old script kiddies that keep > crashing computers and running DDOS attacks and hang them - AND their > parents. At least with Mittman in your system, your system is still running. > > -Linc Fessenden > > In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... > > Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. > From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Jul 26 21:08:46 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > People who break into computers are criminals. > > If their intent is criminal then yes, they are criminals. > If their actions are criminal, they are criminals. It may be a lesser crime to merely violate someones privacy, but it is still a crime. No less than someone walking into your house and browsing through your closets. > > Kevin Mitnick is a CONVICTED criminal, and has ADMITTED criminal > > behaviour. I don't get teary-eyed thinking about the time he spent in > > prison before the trial. He was a proven flight risk (he ran away > > once, and hid out in Denver). > > Me either. But then you forget just how badly the US Gubment violated his > civil rights. I don't know who's the bigger criminal in this case: > Mitnick or the Government. And believe me, I fear the Government WAY > more than I fear Mitnick. The Government is everywhere, and much more > powerful. > What civil rights were violated? Mitnick violated the terms of his supervised release, fled to Denver when he realised they were coming for him (from his illegal monitoring of voice mails and hacking into FBI computers). If a drug dealer did the same, I would hope they would lock her up too. Clint From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 26 10:41:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <750.607T2600T10016681optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: >> One of my friends is thinking of going back into the publishing >> business as a competitor. I was just curious about the general content >> etc. He dropped out of doing it a few years ago due to sleazy >> distributors, but says the situation is better now. >Really, we don't need another 2600. 2600 is bad enough. A bunch of >adolecents writing about mostly inane "hacks" being run by folks who never >made it out of adolescence. Have you ever read the letters section? I >fear for the future of our beloved America :) I'd say that C't or even Dr. Dobb's are more concerned with hacking than 2600 is. I like the telephone booth foldouts, though. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 26 10:30:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: IBM-PC keyboards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <883.607T2550T9906139optimus@canit.se> liste skrev: >I was under the impression that there were 2 types of keyboards for >clones: PC/XT and AT keyboards. This keyboard has a PS/2 style miniDIN-6 >connector (though I now notice it doesn't have the rectangular plug in >the middlish that my other keyboards do), so I assumed it would be AT and >therefore compatible with modern motherboards. No luck :( >Looking on the bottom I see : >Part No : 1395300 IBM >ID No : 2117313 >Date : 12-05-1992 (C) IBM Corp. 1984 Doesn't it seem queer that the keyboard has got a "PS/2" plug while made several years before the introduction of the PS/2? I suppose it's not a PC keyboard, since there were no PCs around at that time into which it AFAIK could be plugged. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Wer nichts zu sagen hat, sagt es auf Englisch." (-Walter Kr?mer, bez?gl. Anglizismen.) From jss at subatomix.com Thu Jul 26 21:30:05 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010726205234.X6349-100000@localhost> At first I thought this was spam, but then I saw Clint's name on it... On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > How would YOU feel if someone broke into your computer system and took > YOUR files to do whatever he felt like with? Or hacked your voicemail > system and listened to your messages? > ... > If your name, DOB, and SSN are ANYWHERE on your computer, a hacker can > steal your identity. > ... > People who break into computers are criminals. > People who launch DDOS attacks are criminals. Honestly, you're a little too paranoid. I think that there certainly is a grey area in which lie the practices of 'breaking into' systems, launching DDOS attacks, etc. Most activities like that probably ought to be illegal in some way; in today's world, one cannot subscribe completely to the belief that all (h|cr)ackers follow an ethic that forbids damage to others. However, it is equally wrong to assume that all (h|cr)ackers will do damage, that the damages are actually as high as have been assessed in past cases, and that current computer crime laws are just. The problem with people getting paranoid (e.g., fearing Mitnick could start a nuclear holocaust from a payphone) is that it causes opressive law to be generated. What we're seeing now is not only law that punishes (at an unusual severity) the actual act of 'breaking in', but law (e.g., the DMCA) which forbids one to know how to do so or even to *tell* others how to do so. It scares me that there is any debate over the constitutionality of such laws. It's really weird. You can go to a number of sites and learn about the Teller-Ulam Configuration and other aspects of how to build a hydrogen bomb, but... finding out how to de-ROT13 your DVDs? Sorry buddy, that's illegal. > Kevin Mitnick is a CONVICTED criminal, and has ADMITTED criminal > behaviour. I don't get teary-eyed thinking about the time he spent in > prison before the trial. He was a proven flight risk (he ran away > once, and hid out in Denver). Yeah, Kevin did some stupid stuff, and he should expect to be punished for it. The problem here is that what he got was just a little (ok, extremely) 'unconstitutional'. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Jul 26 21:38:38 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited Message-ID: In a message dated Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:12:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" writes: > A point to ponder... Would it be okay for someone to enter your house > and poke around in your closets? Watch your home movies on your VCR? A point for you to ponder.. There is no such thing as complete security on your computer. You can't do it unless you never turn it on. Since that is true, realisticly I would much rather have someone browse than break/crack/destroy. Thats my only point. Stopping everyone from hacking would be like stopping everyone from speeding - just can't be done. > > PS Why do you think a FAX is equivalent to a billboard? It is a > lot easier to break into an etailer's computer and steal the > whole database of customer information. Couple real logical reasons for this.. What if you send the fax to the wrong place? Who says how many people have access to walk by the fax machine with your credit card number on it before it's delivered to who it needs to go to? I work in a company office with only 50 other people and can't manage to get my faxes every time they're sent - somehow they "get lost" between the machine and me - this would horrify me if I were getting credit card numbers or account numbers, etc.. Who says the person delivering your faxed numbers is an honest person? etc.. It's easier to break into a secure encrypted computer and get information than to walk by a fax machine somewhere and grab some papers? NOT. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Jul 26 21:47:01 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <20010726205234.X6349-100000@localhost> Message-ID: How about letting this drop before it becomes yet another regrettable forgettable off topic pissing match. On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > At first I thought this was spam, but then I saw Clint's name on it... > > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > > How would YOU feel if someone broke into your computer system and took > > YOUR files to do whatever he felt like with? Or hacked your voicemail > > system and listened to your messages? > > ... From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 21:51:51 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270138.f6R1cTO12038@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010727025151.86363.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and > > > Unix > > What I'd like to see is a community effort to make a new OS that does what > needs to be done without worrying about being compatible with something that > currently exists.... Sure, it may not have a lot of software available... Two examples of the results of that... AmigaDOS, BeOS. There are others. -ethan Disclaimer - I love the Amiga and have never used BeOS but have nothing against it. They were popular but eventually orphaned, in part because they did not receive the blessings of MicroSoft - Word, and eventually Office, in particular. ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From sieler at allegro.com Thu Jul 26 21:52:42 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: info on Limrose MicroTutor (8080 trainer) Message-ID: <3B60750A.4745.6F0564@localhost> Hi, I just got a nice looking Limrose Microtutor (MPT 8080/K-1) ... without any documentation :( Does anyone have any? thanks! Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jul 26 22:01:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: <20010726205234.X6349-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <002101c11648$6602cb00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Getting into YOUR computer is no different from getting into YOUR house. If someone does that to you, don't you call the police regardless of whether they steal your assets or just a bottle of beer? Do you think it's tolerable for someone to gain entry to your house and watch your wife or daughter dress or bathe? Do you think it's tolerable for someone to gain unlawful entry into your puportedly private space and film you making love with your spouse/partner and then share that with whomever he/she sees fit? If you caught someone skulking about your house with all the necessary arms/tools to do you harm, wouldn't you defend yourself? Don't you think you have the right to presume that someone who pries into your personal space has evil intent? The problem with allowing people such "rights" is that the ones least likely to consider the right and wrong of exercising them are the ones most likely do it. It's the old business of worrying the question of whether he could without considering at all whether he should. Another problem, of course, lives within the obvious fact that he'll be defended by others who also would if they could. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > At first I thought this was spam, but then I saw Clint's name on it... > > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > > How would YOU feel if someone broke into your computer system and took > > YOUR files to do whatever he felt like with? Or hacked your voicemail > > system and listened to your messages? > > ... > > If your name, DOB, and SSN are ANYWHERE on your computer, a hacker can > > steal your identity. > > ... > > People who break into computers are criminals. > > People who launch DDOS attacks are criminals. > > Honestly, you're a little too paranoid. I think that there certainly is a > grey area in which lie the practices of 'breaking into' systems, launching > DDOS attacks, etc. Most activities like that probably ought to be illegal > in some way; in today's world, one cannot subscribe completely to the > belief that all (h|cr)ackers follow an ethic that forbids damage to > others. However, it is equally wrong to assume that all (h|cr)ackers will > do damage, that the damages are actually as high as have been assessed in > past cases, and that current computer crime laws are just. > > The problem with people getting paranoid (e.g., fearing Mitnick could > start a nuclear holocaust from a payphone) is that it causes opressive law > to be generated. What we're seeing now is not only law that punishes (at > an unusual severity) the actual act of 'breaking in', but law (e.g., the > DMCA) which forbids one to know how to do so or even to *tell* others how > to do so. It scares me that there is any debate over the > constitutionality of such laws. > > It's really weird. You can go to a number of sites and learn about the > Teller-Ulam Configuration and other aspects of how to build a hydrogen > bomb, but... finding out how to de-ROT13 your DVDs? Sorry buddy, that's > illegal. > > > Kevin Mitnick is a CONVICTED criminal, and has ADMITTED criminal > > behaviour. I don't get teary-eyed thinking about the time he spent in > > prison before the trial. He was a proven flight risk (he ran away > > once, and hid out in Denver). > > Yeah, Kevin did some stupid stuff, and he should expect to be punished for > it. The problem here is that what he got was just a little (ok, > extremely) 'unconstitutional'. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jul 26 22:11:25 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Eric Dittman" at Jul 26, 2001 08:38:29 PM Message-ID: <200107270311.f6R3BPm27240@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix > > > > Lots... What do you think about a UNIX-AOS/VS-VMS-MPE-Guardian hybrid? > > I've thought about this, myself. Almost any new OS wants to work like Unix. > What I'd like to see is a community effort to make a new OS that does what > needs to be done without worrying about being compatible with something that > currently exists. Start off with a list of all the good things in different > operating systems, then implement them in a way that works well. Sure, it > may not have a lot of software available, but so what? The fun will be in > developing something that is well-designed, well-implemented, and solid. Take a look at http://www.adaos.org/ for something different. Of course you'd better like Ada, and it's only in the design stages as far as I can tell, and the people working on it seem to be wondering where on earth the person that thought this up has disappeared to. I think I've run across a couple other such projects, one of the tricks is finding them that are running on x86 (or any other semi modern hardware), the other is finding one that isn't trying to be POSIX compliant. Zane From spc at conman.org Thu Jul 26 23:01:08 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws In-Reply-To: <750.607T2600T10016681optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jul 26, 2001 04:41:52 PM Message-ID: <200107270401.AAA21966@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Iggy Drougge once stated: > > I'd say that C't or even Dr. Dobb's are more concerned with hacking than 2600 > is. I like the telephone booth foldouts, though. =) Has Dr. Dobb's finally gotten away from Windows programming? Even a little bit? -spc (Haven't read a computer magazine in years ... ) From dittman at dittman.net Thu Jul 26 23:11:46 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 26, 2001 07:51:51 PM Message-ID: <200107270411.f6R4Bkr12590@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and > > > > Unix > > > > What I'd like to see is a community effort to make a new OS that does what > > needs to be done without worrying about being compatible with something that > > currently exists.... Sure, it may not have a lot of software available... > > Two examples of the results of that... AmigaDOS, BeOS. There are others. AmigaDOS is different, but I don't know if it has all the features I'd like. As far as I know, BeOS tries to be somewhat Unix compatible. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From rdd at smart.net Thu Jul 26 23:36:22 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system (was: building a PDP11...) In-Reply-To: <20010727025151.86363.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > --- Eric Dittman appears to have written: > > What I'd like to see is a community effort to make a new OS that > > does what needs to be done without worrying about being compatible > > with something that currently exists.... Sure, it may not have a > > lot of software available... Hmmm... my only concern about compatibility would be that files could be transferred to and from other systems, and that ASCII could be used to make the exchange of e-mail, Usenet news, etc. possible. I won't mention a desire for TCP/IP, as, perhaps someone might come up with an idea (as someone may already have done in the past) for superior networking. Regarding file transfers, perhaps a UFUTS filename universal translation system (UFUTS) could be used so that u don't spend too much time futzing with file names after copying them; that is, so no one would have to spend time STUFUing over filenames after copying them. While kermit often does a reasonable job, there can be problems when multiple files have to be translated, and when copied back to the original system from another system that, let's say, supports fewer filename characters, etc., the name will not be what it originally was. So, perhaps each system could contain a translated filenames database that also contains a special datafile for each system that it exchanges files with that uses different naming standards. I guess that's still not too clear of an explanation, so, please allow me to expand upon that. Let's say that system A allows only the ASCII alphanumeric characters in filenames, but allows 1024 characters in a filename. System B allows no more than 10 characters in a filename, yet, it allows many different graphical images to be used as special characters in filenames. Now them, let's suppose that system A knows about the special characters used with system B, and system B knows about the lengthy filenames used with system A, for the following reason: When the file transfer first began, systems A and B checked to see if the UFUTS database contained a special datafile for the others system/OS type. If that file didn't exist on either system, then it would be transfered to the system, or systems, needing it, prior to the transfer of the file, or files, that need to be transfered. The above is, perhaps, a great oversimplification of my idea, however, using this basic sort of technique, files could hypothetically be transferred from system to system, and, when transferred back to the system of the type on which they originated, the file names would automagically become the original filenames that they started out life as. This may be of particular use to users of classic systems who want to archive and preserve many different types of files on a live filesystem for safe-keeping over the years, as well as of interest to those using emulators. After someone mentioned PERQs, this idea came to me after I began thinking about problems that I had when attempting to transfer large numbers of PERQ files to a UNIX system via kermit. Also, if this file translation and transfer mechanism could also recurse directories, and transfer the knowledge of the directory structures between the systems, as it would with the filename format information, it could be even more useful, allowing for entire hard disks to be archived on other "non-compatible" systems. What are the thoughts of others regarding this idea and UFUTS? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis "Golf course" properly defined: a horrid All Rights Reserved misuse of good pasture and farm land often rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 perpetuated by those who are capable of http://www.rddavis.net neither farming nor riding. From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Jul 26 23:35:23 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! Message-ID: <6c.d88f6cc.2892498b@aol.com> On Thu, 26 Jul 2001; Mike Ford wrote: > You aren't REALLY a true packrat until you realize you can't bring home > more than a small bag of groceries because of the computer stuff in your > car that you don't have room to put in your house. ROFL... The truth don't hurt as much when it is funny... Seriously, thanks Mike. I knew that router was around here somewhere, and it turns out it was right where I left it, in the back of my wife's car. I just needed a little reminder. Mike From spc at conman.org Thu Jul 26 23:35:42 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> from "Terry Collins" at Jul 27, 2001 10:11:52 AM Message-ID: <200107270435.AAA22031@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Terry Collins once stated: > > Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix > > (the two worst things to happen to the industry but some might argue about > > the Unix bit 8-) > > At the risk of pandering to a troll, what were/are the alternatives? VMS is a very nice system but gets slagged by Unix weenies. Okay, so it's a bit verbose in the command line, but it is very consistent and the security model is much much better than the ``ROOT IS GOD'' mentality of Unix. It also clusters much better than Unix. QNX is a very cool operating system, which unfortunately (from my perspective) runs only on the Intel platform. It's a true microkernel and unlike Mach (which is about the only microkernel that is widely known) it actually runs fast! And it has an incredible network filesystem/message passing paradigm that blows Unix out of the water (imagine being able to run a program on one computer, pipe the output to a program on a second computer and send that to a printer on a third computer---all from the command line ala Unix?). Plan-9 seems interesting in that it's more Unix than Unix ever was (Unix: everything is a file, well, except for network connections, semaphores and shared memory. Plan-9: everything is a file. Everything). As far as single user OSes go, OS/2 is very nice and rock solid. AmigaOS (pick your version) is also very good, and a very clean microkernel design (even the kernel is treated as a shared library, and device drivers are nothing more than shared libraries. Heck, they stopped just shy of making applications shared libraries, but really, there isn't anything really stopping one from doing that under AmigaOS). > Unix - well fragmentation is the only thing I can think of, which is > being mirrored in Linux these days. There is a lot wrong with Unix, fragmentation aside. Interprocess communication is practically non-existent (pipes? Fine between two processes, but horrible if you want multiple processes to talk to a single process. Messages? Not supported on all Unix platforms, and for systems that do support it, can leak resources if the program crashes and has a high creation overhead. Shared memory? Same problems as messages. Signals? Heh. Yea, right). Threads? Okay, there's the abortion known as pthreads, but half the time it's userland threads, not true threads. And the API is just horrible (and still no decent semaphore support!) Only Linux got threading right as it's more Unix than pthreads is. And I won't even get into the problems with NFS, file locking, removable media and removable peripherals (like modems and printers). -spc (Sadly, worse is better) From spc at conman.org Thu Jul 26 23:39:34 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270411.f6R4Bkr12590@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Jul 26, 2001 11:11:46 PM Message-ID: <200107270439.AAA22044@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Eric Dittman once stated: > > > Two examples of the results of that... AmigaDOS, BeOS. There are others. > > AmigaDOS is different, but I don't know if it has all the features > I'd like. As far as I know, BeOS tries to be somewhat Unix compatible. Well, AmigaDOS has processes, threads, semaphores, message ports, messages, preemptive multitasking, multiple file systems and long file names (on such filesystems that support that). It's not multi-user so it lacks file permissions but it's a single user OS anyway. What else do you need? -spc (AmigaDOS was one of the more fun OSes to program for ... ) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jul 26 23:55:22 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726215350.01ce8010@209.185.79.193> Yeah, this is apparently an IEC standard for a 15AMP power cord. I found I could _special order_ one from the hardware store for only $37.00 :-). --Chuck At 01:36 PM 7/22/01 -0400, RD Davis wrote: >This was foiled by the need for a >special power cord, or at least a, literally, hacked power cord. From spc at conman.org Thu Jul 26 23:56:08 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" at Jul 26, 2001 08:08:46 PM Message-ID: <200107270456.AAA22055@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" once stated: > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > > > People who break into computers are criminals. > > > > If their intent is criminal then yes, they are criminals. > > > If their actions are criminal, they are criminals. It may be a > lesser crime to merely violate someones privacy, but it is still > a crime. No less than someone walking into your house and browsing > through your closets. Technically yes it is a crime. But while physical trespassing is often a misdemenor, virtual trespassing (on a computer) is a Federal offence. Trespassing is trespassing, right? > What civil rights were violated? Mitnick violated the terms of his > supervised release, fled to Denver when he realised they were coming > for him (from his illegal monitoring of voice mails and hacking into > FBI computers). If a drug dealer did the same, I would hope they > would lock her up too. Held without bail for four years until his trial. Information critical to his defence was withheld from him (several hundred megs to possibly a gig worth of encrypted files) or severely limited (one hour of supervised computer use per week to scan his private files or some such silly nonsense). And because of the hype over his activities, he can't use any computer or anything *with* a computer for three? four? years of his probation. That means phones, microwaves, CARS! It's totally insane given that Mitnick isn't even all that technically savvy. And then there's the little matter of his capture. Let's see---a computer scientist with no degree or even a high school diploma uses blatently illegal methods such as cellular phone scanning (using his own hacked up equipment!) to track Mitnick down and ends up telling the FBI what to do. Um, excuse me but he wasn't a duly deputized agent of any police force and yet HE'S telling the FBI what to do? Oh, and having a reporter from the New York Times along for the bust. Mitnick is a criminal yes. But he certainly got the short end of the stick on this one. -spc (Not trying to be a Mitnick apologist here ... 8-) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 00:02:46 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: DEC B400X expansion chassis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726215955.01cea3d0@209.185.79.193> Yup, I've finally got cables for a B400X card and can plug my 4000/100 into an expansion cabinet. Woo hoo! So you can plug a 3400 card set into it, or a KA660 (VAX 4000/200) card set into it. Both work just fine. But you _cannot_ plug a 4000/300 board set into it. --Chuck At 12:25 PM 7/22/01 -0700, you wrote: >OK, my neighbor just dumped a B400X expansion chassis on me (unfortunatly >he's keeping the VAX 4000-100). Is the backplane straight Q-Bus? I'm >wanting to see about stuffing a VAX 3400 boardset in there (that he also >gave me). I'm assuming I can't stick something like a 4000-300 boardset in >it (really don't know as I've not had access to something like that), or do >they plug directly into the Q-Bus? From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jul 27 00:06:20 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Cipher C880 tape drive References: <3B4F11F0.26464.1DABBF91@localhost> Message-ID: <3B60F6CC.43BC15FE@internet1.net> Brian, Have you seen this: ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/tc02.info Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Brian Knittel wrote: > > I read this list in digest form so I get stuff a little > late. No need to worry Chad, the controller is an Emulex > Pertec-type controller - two 50-pin cables. I think > the model is TC02 (big chip label reads TC0210201-FSJ), > assembly # on pcb is TU0210401 rev G. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 27 00:24:57 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: <200107250250.f6P2onu03864@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > This far, I haven't noticed anything truly remarkable with regards to > > software, although at first glance, it looks like nothing is missing. > > Fortunately, someone installed kermit, so that will make things, > > such as installing TCP/IP, easier. :-) > > You've a couple choices with VMS 5.5, the easiest is the freeware stack > CMUIP, I used it before the V2 Hobbyist program. I'd recommend a TCPIP > stack from Process software, one or both supports V5.5-2. Is it possible to use both TCP/IP and DECnet over the same network hardware with VMS? Once I get this machine connected via the terminal server to another machine, I'll grab a copy of CMUIP and GCC. > > DECnet is installed and apparently configured, so I guess this means > > that I can use my DEC terminal server with this machine... do I need > > to do anything other than connect the terminal server to the VAX and > > then use it? I know nothing about DECnet. > Try saying 'connect {hostname}' on the terminal server, and see what > happens. If that doesn't work, you might need to turn on the software that > is needed for LAT. It appears, at first glance anyway - when my VT320 terminal isn't trying to quit working, that I don't have the software installed which is needed for the DECserver 200. Regarding the VT-320, the screen gets real bright, dims, gets bright, etc., and then, this afternoon, there was the smell of burning plastic coming from the monitor. It looks as though it's time to take this terminal apart for repairs. Has anyone here had experience with this type of problem with one of these terminals? It appears to be intermittent. > > Of course, there's still the little matter of no tape drive being > > installed in this system, which is not a good thing. I have a TK70 > > and a TK50, along with a TKQ70 board. > What kind of disk interfaces does it have? For that matter, what model is > this you're talking about? I never got a chance to look at the first > message you posted on this system. This is a VAX-4000/200 with two DSSI disks; alas, no SCSI. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 27 00:30:53 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: DECserver 200 and VAX (was: The new VAX is alive!) In-Reply-To: <200107250319.f6P3Je705101@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > As for the termina server, are you wanting to connect a serial port > on the terminal server to the console port on the VAX or do you want > to connect the terminal to a serial port on the terminal server and > connect to the VAX over the network? Since this VAX is the only system that speaks DECnet at this time, I'd like to be able to connect other systems or terminals to the DECserver MC200 and connect that to the VAX via ethernet. Today, I connected the hardware, but it appears that I don't have the necessary software installed on the VAX - if I'm looking in the right place. Should there be a sys$system:[decserver] directory with that software in it? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 27 00:35:46 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Strange PSU mains connector In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726215350.01ce8010@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Yeah, this is apparently an IEC standard for a 15AMP power cord. I found I > could _special order_ one from the hardware store for only $37.00 :-). Wow, talk about overpriced! If there was no other choice to paying that price, I'd just hack the power supply to bypass the connector and hardwire a suitable power cord to a system. :-) As I'm sure that my VAX is drawing nowhere near even the 8.5A, I just hacked (with a knife) a 10A power cord's socket to fit the VAX's PSU connector. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 00:32:12 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010721100538.02cace70@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726222413.01ceceb0@209.185.79.193> At 05:36 PM 7/22/01 -0400, RD Davis wrote: >Wow, even the nearly empty and baseless BA400 (BA440?) chasis is >somewhat heavy! True, true. But lighter than an 11/780 :-) >Anyway, it's now counting down to 3, so, something's working! :-) >...will know more when I can get a terminal attached. It's waiting for you to tell it what to boot. >Do all >VAX-4000/200 machines make a loud fan noise when first powered on, and >then get much quieter? Are variable-speed fans being used, and is >that noise a test of high-speed operation? Yes, its temperature controlled. It starts high, realizes the CPU isn't hot and then lowers the speed. > > That would be the DSSI connector, looks like SCSI but it isn't. Hopefully > >At least DSSI drives still appear to still obtainable. SCSI would be >more useful so that I could read a the hobbyist CD-ROM now that DECUS >has finally sent me a membership number. Did DEC made any DSSI CD-ROM >drives? They didn't make DSSI CD-roms that I know of. I had a 3400 once that had a KRQ50 with the bracket that allowed and RRD40 to be connected. >It appears as though I'll be removing these three DECVoice and M3136 >boards as well, if I can't use them with a regular home telephone >line. Don't do that! A couple of things are certainly possible. Find a cheap used PBX that has a T1 card in it and run it that way. Lots of telecom goodies can convert a T-1 into 24 voice lines. Some are simple enough that you just pick the voice channel you want to use on the box. >...in the end, all selections would eventually lead to a message >asking them to please learn to dial the right number, which they can >find in the telephone directory. {remind me never to call you on the phone :-) > > Did they actually remove the tape drive? Or is the panel missing? Also > >There's just an empty bay, and a smoked plastic cover over where I'm >guessing the tape drive should go (upper right corner). There's a >tape drive cable that doesn't connect to any boards. I'd have to break >something to remove the smoked plastic cover, however. On the BA400 there is a door on top that when you open it, it exposes the peripherals in the top of the case. The right most 'hole' is where the tape would go. And yes you need a set of rails to put a TK70 there. > > which type of box is it in, BA400 or BA213? You didn't mention a tape > >My guess is that it's a BA400 or BA440. There are two doors in the >front that swing open, and no clear sliding door like I remember >seeing on a VAX 3400. Definitely BA400 series see for a similar picture. (this one is also a 4000/200) >Once I assemble a cord that will fit the odd telephone-like >RJ-something sockets for a terminal, I'll check the CPU out further. >What do you mean by having the real -TM for that one? -TM is the Technical Manual for the KA660 CPU. Once you get a terminal attached you'll see the testing prompt and that its waiting at the chevron prompt (>>>) --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 00:34:08 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: New toy: VAX with DECVoice In-Reply-To: <003b01c112fc$0d9f8060$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726223335.02432eb0@209.185.79.193> At 06:17 PM 7/22/01 -0400, John wrote: >P.S. While having VMS on the disks can relieve effort it can also create > new problems, namely re-setting passwords (fairly easy to deal with) > and redoing an expired liscence. Anybody know if Montagar can > permit the use of an older copy of VMS like OpenVMS 6.2? My Montegar licenses have worked on 5.5, 6.2, and 7.2 installs. --Chuck From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 27 00:40:34 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at Jul 27, 2001 12:39:34 AM Message-ID: <200107270540.f6R5eY212853@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > > > Two examples of the results of that... AmigaDOS, BeOS. There are others. > > > > AmigaDOS is different, but I don't know if it has all the features > > I'd like. As far as I know, BeOS tries to be somewhat Unix compatible. > > Well, AmigaDOS has processes, threads, semaphores, message ports, > messages, preemptive multitasking, multiple file systems and long file names > (on such filesystems that support that). It's not multi-user so it lacks > file permissions but it's a single user OS anyway. What else do you need? Well, for one thing I'd want multiuser capability, clustering, and the GUI would have to be improved. I never liked the looks of the Amiga GUI; it looked primitive to me. I haven't seen an Amiga lately, so I don't now if the looks of the GUI ever improved. I use a GUI primarily to manage several text windows, so I could ignore most of the GUI anyway, but the text displays would have to be fixed. And the OS should not require a GUI for system operation. I like my systems to be connected to a terminal server with one main system acting as the terminal (along with my VT525). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fernande at internet1.net Fri Jul 27 00:43:14 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home References: <200107270138.f6R1cTO12038@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3B60FF72.1C97F94@internet1.net> Wasn't Plan 9 supposed to be sort of like that? Chad Fernandez Michgan, USA Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix > > > > Lots... What do you think about a UNIX-AOS/VS-VMS-MPE-Guardian hybrid? > > I've thought about this, myself. Almost any new OS wants to work like Unix. > What I'd like to see is a community effort to make a new OS that does what > needs to be done without worrying about being compatible with something that > currently exists. Start off with a list of all the good things in different > operating systems, then implement them in a way that works well. Sure, it > may not have a lot of software available, but so what? The fun will be in > developing something that is well-designed, well-implemented, and solid. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net From mranalog at home.com Fri Jul 27 00:57:39 2001 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Pocket protectors Was: RE: Fun "events" for VCF Message-ID: <3B6102D3.24D4B948@home.com> Douglas Quebbeman said: > > > > Vintage geek clothing contest. > > > > heh. the winner should be someone who manages to find a way > to wear both a t-sheet and a pocket protector... This just got me to thinking.... How did pocket protectors become associated with 'computer enthusiasts'? And how many here have wore a pocket protector on a regular basis in the past? I remember there was a time in school when I always wore my metal Pickett in it's leather scabbard hanging from my belt, but I never wore a pocket protector. I carried my pens in my pants pockets. My father wore a pocket protector all the time even when he was not in uniform. In the 60's he managed gas stations. Uniform shirts were expensive and the pocket protectors were handed out for free by parts, tool, and oil distributors. In the pocket protector he always carried - a tire gauge, two pens (for filling out credit card slips), and a small screwdriver. I just never associated pocket protectors with anything high tech. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ========================================= From nerdware at laidbak.com Fri Jul 27 01:02:23 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: old RAID canister wanted In-Reply-To: <001901c115e4$492e9180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200107270606.f6R66DR06592@grover.winsite.com> The only ones I have access to are UW drive cannisters, ST15150W. Haven't seen a lot of the SD stuff around... got mine from a recycler. Paul > I've got an aging (1991-92) Storage Dimensions RAID box that uses > canisters with SDI's part number B68221, with the further designation > of "Module Asm,Hot Plug," followed by the drive model number. I need > another such canister. The original mfg, Storage Dimensions, was > acquired by DotHill about 5 years back and they don't have any options > to offer. > > Do any of you guys know where one might find such an oddity. > > thanks, > > Dick > > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From nerdware at laidbak.com Fri Jul 27 01:03:28 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: WTB: Epson HX-40 in working order In-Reply-To: <20010726035131.8082.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200107260244.f6Q2iK824760@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <200107270607.f6R67JR06606@grover.winsite.com> Let me ask tomorrow, and I'll email you off-list. Paul > > --- Paul Braun wrote: > > > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Paul Braun wrote: > > > > > > > A friend of mine just acquired one of those big programmable > > > > highway emergency signs > > > Well, it's for sale, but you'd need to either come to NW Indiana to > > pick it up, or find someone one their way to VCF with a trailer > > hitch who'd be willing to tow it for you.... ;o) > > How much? I'm over in Ohio, less than 5 hours from NW Indiana (but I > don't have a trailer hitch) :-( > > -ethan > > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! > Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jul 27 01:12:19 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <002101c11648$6602cb00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010727002344.Q6628-100000@localhost> On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The problem with allowing people such "rights" is that the ones least > likely to consider the right and wrong of exercising them are the ones > most likely do it. It's the old business of worrying the question of > whether he could without considering at all whether he should. We're in agreement. I don't believe there should be any 'right' anyone has to perform the act of breaking in where they shouldn't, whether it be in a computer system, someone's house, or whatever. What I disagree with is that the punishment for 'computer crime' is so relatively severe (because people are scared), and that there are laws against discussing how to commit computer crime. You and I know (judging from your post) that breaking into a computer system is not much different than breaking into someone's house; why are 'computer criminals' treated so differently than a common thief? Suppose I break into your house, photograph your wife taking a bath, steal your toaster, and get caught. I go to court, lose, and serve a jail sentence. Yay. Now, suppose that common thieves were punished as severely as their 'computer criminal' counterparts -- solitary confinement ("he might rob something!"), total lack of due process, a sentence longer than many murderers, and being prohibited from ever touching or entering a building for a long time. How do you like sleeping outside? Suppose I tell someone how to break into houses, or I build a tool that can be used to facilitate entry to your house. Hey, it's a free country! Now, suppose again that I tell someone how to break the security of a computer system, or write a program that could be used to do so. Uh-oh, time to say hello to Bubba in cell 72! We surely have improved on civil rights since 1960. Maybe, once all the people die off that are scared of computers and scared of those who can control their magic powers, things will be better for technology as well. But right now, things really, really suck. People are tiring of this, but I'm having fun. Let's take it off-list! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jul 27 01:25:51 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system (was: building a PDP11...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010727011322.N6628-100000@localhost> > What I'd like to see is a community effort to make a new OS that does > what needs to be done without worrying about being compatible with > something that currently exists. Man, I'd really like to do that someday. I've thought about that particular subject a lot for nearly as long as I've had to interact with an operating system. Imagine, a system that incorporates all the good ideas and none of the bad ones, is ultra-powerful for smart people but simple enough for idiots, doesn't have anything to be backwards-compatible with, and runs on anything. Please excuse me while I wipe this puddle of drool off the floor. > ASCII One of my crazy ideas is how to solve the internationalization problem. Use extended ASCII or some now 8-bit-wided character set, and declare English to be the official international language of the platform. Screw this Unicode crap. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 27 01:13:46 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > A point to ponder... Would it be okay for someone to enter your house > and poke around in your closets? Watch your home movies on your VCR? > Read your bank statements and credit card statements? No, but just as it is your responsibility to lock your house, it is also your responsbility to protect your server so that people can't just wander in. The sad truth about mankind is that one man will always try to take advantage of another. It's a simple fact of our being. The sooner you can accept that, the sooner you will see the sense in putting more effort into safeguarding your property rather than worrying over who might come into your house and steal your twinkies. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 27 01:20:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > If their intent is criminal then yes, they are criminals. > > If their actions are criminal, they are criminals. It may be a lesser > crime to merely violate someones privacy, but it is still a crime. No > less than someone walking into your house and browsing through your > closets. Perverts aside, have you ever known anyone to break into other peoples' houses so they can learn something about their closets? Many people used to break into computers to learn about the system, but abided by a principle that nothing should ever be intentionally damaged. I used to be one of those people (in my younger days). I'm not trying to justify it. Sure I may have been breaking some laws. But I didn't try to "steal" data or snoop around in anyone's private life (unless I accidentally stumbled across it). I was just interested in exploring and learning. Your closet analogy does not hold up. People have used this argument before. It didn't make sense then, it doesn't now. But all that aside, see my previous message: security, physical or virtual, is YOUR responsiblity. If you don't want anyone coming into your house or your server, LOCK THEM UP! Did they still get in? You didn't use good enough locks. Try again. > > Me either. But then you forget just how badly the US Gubment violated his > > civil rights. I don't know who's the bigger criminal in this case: > > Mitnick or the Government. And believe me, I fear the Government WAY > > more than I fear Mitnick. The Government is everywhere, and much more > > powerful. > > What civil rights were violated? Mitnick violated the terms of his > supervised release, fled to Denver when he realised they were coming > for him (from his illegal monitoring of voice mails and hacking into > FBI computers). If a drug dealer did the same, I would hope they > would lock her up too. Do the research. Read the stories. Come to your own conclusion. http://www.2600.com Their information will obviously be biased, but you can read John Markoff's accounts to balance it all out. Somewhere between 2600 and Markoff is the truth. The fact is, the US Government often violates the very laws it is charged to uphold, and has no remorse over it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 27 02:17:08 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:06 2005 Subject: Ethernet -- thicknet and thinnet before 10BaseT In-Reply-To: Bill Pechter "Ethernet -- thicknet and thinnet before 10BaseT" (Jul 26, 19:31) References: <200107262331.f6QNVGu04738@bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <10107270817.ZM2146@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 26, 19:31, Bill Pechter wrote: > > Several transceivers connected to the same cable allow several machines > > to communicate. In a sense, the transceivers together with the coax cable > > form the hub. > > > > The T-pieces are, indeed passive (all 3 connectors connected in parallel > > in the obvious way), but they're not really the hub. > > > > -tony > > It's really that the hub doesn't exist on a bus network like 10Base2 > or 10Base5... all the Tee connectors are doing is replacing > the vampire tap on thicknet... > The thinnet "Transceiver" is really built on to the card on > most PC's and is the same (basically) as the old thicknet > transceiver attached to my Sun my Unix boxes -- they can go from > Thinnet to Thicknet by swapping the N-Connector top to the > BNC connector top. And thinnet can go to thicknet with just an N to BNC > adapter -- but the max length and specs drop to thinnet specs. > > Hubs really distort the logical ethernet bus topology. Not really. Logically, the innards of the hub are the bus. The ports are the taps. Then, since the stations connected are typically some distance away, you use an appropriate technology to get the cable to them, and that's why there are additional transceivers (one on the host card, one on the hub port) to drive the signal over a resonable distance. It certainly changes the physical layout of course (short bus long drops instead of a long bus with short drops). > Now 10/100 switches really screw with it. Those switches are just bridges, which have been around for decades (albeit with fewer ports). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 27 02:08:02 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found?" (Jul 26, 18:38) References: Message-ID: <10107270808.ZM2135@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 26, 18:38, Tony Duell wrote: > There seems to be a 6522 (on the BBC side) with the ports connected to > the ports of the 8255. That seems to be on the Z80 bus. I've not looked at one for a while, but that makes more sense. Presumably the 6522 is mapped into the Beeb's 1MHz bus space. > I've found a part-populated board marked 'Torch Computers 68000' which I > believe to be from a Unicorn (it's not from a XXX or anything later). It > has a 40 pin connector on it, which suggests it connects to the Tube as > well. Oh, then I stand corrected. The Tube is the only 40-pin connector on a Beeb. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jul 27 02:22:26 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub In-Reply-To: "Shawn T. Rutledge" "Re: ThinNet Hub" (Jul 26, 17:29) References: <002a01c11586$00b44660$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <20010726172923.Y1408@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <10107270822.ZM2152@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 26, 17:29, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:03:02PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > It's better to think of the 'hub' as being distributed in the 10base2 > > transceivers (the modules that connect between the AUI port and the > > Well I have seen hubs to which coax is connected. Some were probably > arcnet, but weren't coax hubs ever used for thinnet? Maybe to boost > the signal and get past the length limitation, or maybe to isolate > "problem" branches so they don't interfere with other branches? They're often called "repeaters" which is actually a more accurate description. Yes, they are used to get over the length limitation (you can have up to 5 segments, connected by 4 repeaters, between any two hosts, though not all segents can be populated and there are rules about lengths, propagation delays, etc). They're also used to get over the number-of-hosts-on-a-segment limitation. However, they don't isolate collision domains; a collision on one segment will be faithfully copied to the others. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Fri Jul 27 02:24:39 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! References: Message-ID: <002b01c1166d$32e1f500$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:54 PM Subject: Re: The new VAX is alive! > Is it possible to use both TCP/IP and DECnet over the same network > hardware with VMS? Once I get this machine connected via the terminal > server to another machine, I'll grab a copy of CMUIP and GCC. Yes, but you need to load DECnet first as it alters the MAC address, which will upset the IP stack seriously if it loads first. I have used CMUIP and it's so-so, but Process will give you a hobbyist license for Multinet which is way better, and I suspect even UCX (certainly later versions) would be better than CMUIP, which is rather slow at best, and a little broken in places, (so is UCX but in fairness it's both faster and a bit less tricky than CMUIP). But if I had a choice, I'd run Multinet. > > > DECnet is installed and apparently configured, so I guess this means > > > that I can use my DEC terminal server with this machine... do I need > > > to do anything other than connect the terminal server to the VAX and > > > then use it? I know nothing about DECnet. You need to make sure MOP is enabled on the vax and you need the boot file for the decserver in the right place on the vax so the Terminal server can MOP boot itself. > It appears, at first glance anyway - when my VT320 terminal isn't > trying to quit working, that I don't have the software installed which > is needed for the DECserver 200. ISTR that the necessary files for DS200 boot are on virtually any VMS software distribution CD set after about 7.x. Hope this helps Geoff in Oz From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 27 01:28:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <20010726205234.X6349-100000@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > The problem with people getting paranoid (e.g., fearing Mitnick could > start a nuclear holocaust from a payphone) is that it causes opressive law > to be generated. What we're seeing now is not only law that punishes (at Very good point. And this is done purposely. We have some seriously deluded control freaks in power in our government who will take every opportunity to limit our personal freedoms to bolster their own misguided agendas. As malicious a guy like Mitnick has the potential to be, I don't believe he or anyone else should have their rights violated as he did, and I would sooner lend my support to his plight than let the government run amok over his (and ultimately my) rights. That's what this is about. > an unusual severity) the actual act of 'breaking in', but law (e.g., > the DMCA) which forbids one to know how to do so or even to *tell* > others how to do so. It scares me that there is any debate over the > constitutionality of such laws. Yep. They keep piling laws onto the books that will soon make criminals of us all. At the rate things are going, we may as well just send our paychecks to the big corporations and just sit at home in the dark twiddling our thumbs. That's what they want anyway. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Fri Jul 27 02:53:01 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 26-Jul-2001 Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap Crap! > > How would YOU feel if someone broke into your computer system and took > YOUR files to do whatever he felt like with? Or hacked your voicemail > system and listened to your messages? That's not hacking. -Philip From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jul 27 06:13:11 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <3B6063A9.43683567@btinternet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:38:34 +0100 Shaun Stephenson wrote: > > I'm not normally interested in games, but the Vectrex is one console I > > spent real money on. Reason ? It's got the right CPU (68A09) and a vector > > display. Vector displays are fun... > > Bloody great machine and in good nick the screen is incredible. > Wish I had one boxed > :( I have a boxed Vectrex that I bought from Hamleys (big London toy-shop, in Regents Street) in 1984 for 50 quid. I went down there on the back of a friend's motorbike, and carried the Vectrex home the same way. Still works, and I have the light pen and most of the games and overlays. I know someone who has the 3D Imager, too! -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From cmr at sitaranetworks.com Fri Jul 27 07:31:12 2001 From: cmr at sitaranetworks.com (Charles Richmond) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Lexidata (was Re: Sun 1) Message-ID: <3B615F10.4290BDD5@sitaranetworks.com> > Yep that monitor looks a lot like one I have... but mine has a logo > that says "LexiData", I think. It has 10 BNC connectors (separate > sync, and a set of pass-through connectors I guess). I worked at Lexidata from 82-84. They should have been up there with Sun and Apollo, but they made some bad business decisions. Lexidata had the patent for the h/w implementation of Z-buffering and should have 'owned' the solids modeling market. The monitor (from memory) should have 2 sets of R G B Vs Hs, which accounts for the 10 bnc connectors. Internally it could probably take sync from the green bnc. It is almost certainly 1280x1024 and might be non-interlaced as Lexidat was either the first or one of the very first to have 1280x1024x60 controllers. Thanks for the memories and I hope this is useful Charles Richmond Manager of Kernel Development -- *********************************************************************** * Charles Richmond @ Sitara Networks * * cmr@sitaranetworks.com cmr@iisc.com cmr@acm.org * * 52 Second Avenue Suite 200, Waltham, MA 02451 * * (781) 487 5919 FAX (781) 684 8291 Cellular (617) 504 3379 * *********************************************************************** From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Fri Jul 27 07:20:01 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited Message-ID: >But all that aside, see my previous message: security, physical or >virtual, is YOUR responsiblity. If you don't want anyone coming into your >house or your server, LOCK THEM UP! Did they still get in? You didn't >use good enough locks. Try again. OH... I see... The victim has primary responsiblity for the crime. I must admit, I do agree with your statement "LOCK THEM UP". But it's not the house or the server that shuold be locked up, it's the CRIMINALS! SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From lance at costanzo.net Fri Jul 27 08:05:17 2001 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010727060516.0080ccb0@costanzo.net> A parallel port ZIP drive is very handy for this sort of thing. Easy to setup; in your case I'd format a disk in the old PC (360K), take it to a newer PC, SYS it with 6.22, put the files on it for the ZIP drive, and boot it on the old PC. The parallel ZIP only needs a 1/2 dozen or so control files to work. a:guest (assigns ZIP to drive D) xcopy c:*.* d: /s /e (put it on the floppy when you sys it) It make take awhile. Go have lunch. Lance. At 12:37 PM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: >Here's the deal: > >I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything works fine and the PC will boot up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can navigate around and look at all the files, etc. > >The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the 360K floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost full.) > >There are three ways I can imagine doing this: > >1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it to my home network, >2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running off a more modern controller (IDE?), >3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC. > >I've been trying to get option 3 to work for a week now, but I'm not having any luck. Any tips? I'm currently trying to get the DTC controller to work in an old EISA 486 with a 1992 AMI BIOS, but I keep getting a "HDD Controller failure" message. I've tried it both with the controllers BIOS enabled and disabled. If the BIOS is enabled, it puts up a message saying "1 hard disk" right before the other error - this is the same message I see on the PC right before it starts booting. > >So I know the controller itself is "working", but it's not being recognized by the BIOS. I'm not sure what's going on. > >Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive? Should I try another MFM controller? > >Daniel >-- >Daniel A. Segel >WorldCom >Employee Systems User Support >Phone: 916-373-4810; Vnet: 653-4810; Pager: 888-783-5951; AIM: DanSegel > > > From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 27 08:08:13 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home References: <200107270311.f6R3BPm27240@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <004101c1169d$31de18c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >Take a look at http://www.adaos.org/ for something different. Of course >you'd better like Ada, and it's only in the design stages as far as I can I'm just reading through this thread. How about CLOS? "Common Lisp Operating System" IIRC. A topic in 1989 or so. P.S. The error messaging for the DEC Vax Ada compiler was simply the best designed and constructed compiler software I've ever seen. It was a complex language and DEC knew it Well. Errors resulted in an opportunity for (the compiler) to re-train you on the finer points of the language. Too bad the Reaganomics (read: DOD) revolution didn't last. John A. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1558.monmouth.com Fri Jul 27 08:13:44 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1558.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: VAX license pak issues -- resolution (an easy way around data entry) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726223335.02432eb0@209.185.79.193> from Chuck McManis at "Jul 26, 2001 10:34:08 pm" Message-ID: <200107271313.f6RDDi314214@bg-tc-ppp1558.monmouth.com> FYI -- for those folks who were offerring suggestions to my VAX license problems -- here's the resolution which eliminated a lot of data entry... > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms > Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Hobby PAK license question/problem > Summary: > Expires: > References: <9jnrig$npo$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> <9jp088$2av$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> <3B601374.40726FF2@gsfc.nasa.gov> > Sender: > Followup-To: > Distribution: > Organization: Unknown > Keywords: > Cc: > > In article <3B601374.40726FF2@gsfc.nasa.gov>, > Robert DiRosario wrote: > >>I've relicensed three times and every time it doesn't take it. > > > >I had the same problems on my M48. You don't need the S/N for the license > >to work.. If you look at the licenses, you'll notice they are DCL commands. > >Just type them in at the command line. I've had no problems entering them > >from the command line, but couldn't get them to work using the LMF menu. > Thank you... that was my problem exactly. The fix for the problem was for me to take the license files from the Hobbyist program and burn 'em to cdrom as .com files and just @license[123].com them. Once I figured out the mount options mount /over=id /media_format=cdrom /undefined_fat=stream:2048 dkb500: I was set. Motif Decwindows and EDT... YEAH. Now to get DECnetPlus and TCP/IP up.,. and load the layered products. Basic, Pascal, C, Fortran... VMS on Vax --that's a REAL Computer (tm). Bill -- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jul 27 08:17:02 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: New find: DECUS RSX SIG Tapes Message-ID: <200107271317.JAA00778@world.std.com> >My understanding of the Mentec hobby license only covered use fo rthe >emmulators, not real hardware. Firstly, Mentec doesn't have a hobbyist license. Secondly, the license which they have granted does indeed limit the rights to use the software to certain emulators only. It does not grant rights to use the software on real hardware... You are correct. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 27 08:40:19 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513E2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Tony- > > > > I'm running SIMH on a 233MHz Pentium-1 with rather good response. At > > I stand by my statement. I don;t have a Pentium 1, I don't have any sort > of Pentium, and I don't have anything with a 233MHz master clock. This, then, by choice, I take it? > > least, TOPS-10 seems as fast as it was at university loaded with > > students... > > Hmm... I think I'd rather have a go at making a real > PDP10.... That could be an 'interesting' project.... I'm not sure what would qualify as "real" to you... would it have to be a machine built from the original schematic prints? Or would a re-implementation using modern devices (e.g. FPGA) qualify as "real"...? -dq From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 27 08:46:51 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270042.f6R0gml21863@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > able to run. The perfect examples are ts10, simh, and hercules. The first I agree that one might need to emulate the PDP-10, because of its relative rarity. As far as IBM Mainframes, one could pick up a P/390E and put it in a PC or RS/6000 to get a real IBM mainframe. (Or you could be me, and go get a 9672 G5) Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 27 08:50:36 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: IBM-PC keyboards In-Reply-To: <883.607T2550T9906139optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > >Looking on the bottom I see : > >Part No : 1395300 IBM > >ID No : 2117313 > >Date : 12-05-1992 (C) IBM Corp. 1984 > > Doesn't it seem queer that the keyboard has got a "PS/2" plug while made > several years before the introduction of the PS/2? I suppose it's not a PC > keyboard, since there were no PCs around at that time into which it AFAIK > could be plugged. 1992? PS/2s were already in Generation III. PS/2s came out in late 1987. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 27 08:55:59 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270435.AAA22031@conman.org> Message-ID: In addition to the ones stated, I would suggest that VM with MVS, DOS/VSE, CMS, OS/VS, etc, make surprisingly good workstation OSes. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Fri Jul 27 08:58:19 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Pocket protectors Was: RE: Fun "events" for VCF In-Reply-To: <3B6102D3.24D4B948@home.com> Message-ID: IBM Engineers tend to wear pocket protectors. (I'm an IBM engineer). Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Doug Coward wrote: > > Douglas Quebbeman said: > > > > > > Vintage geek clothing contest. > > > > > > > heh. the winner should be someone who manages to find a way > > to wear both a t-sheet and a pocket protector... > > This just got me to thinking.... > How did pocket protectors become associated with 'computer > enthusiasts'? > And how many here have wore a pocket protector on a regular > basis in the past? > > I remember there was a time in school when I always wore > my metal Pickett in it's leather scabbard hanging from my > belt, but I never wore a pocket protector. I carried my > pens in my pants pockets. > My father wore a pocket protector all the time even when > he was not in uniform. In the 60's he managed gas stations. > Uniform shirts were expensive and the pocket protectors > were handed out for free by parts, tool, and oil distributors. > In the pocket protector he always carried - a tire gauge, > two pens (for filling out credit card slips), and a small > screwdriver. > > I just never associated pocket protectors with anything > high tech. > --Doug > ========================================= > Doug Coward > @ home in Poulsbo, WA > > Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog > ========================================= > From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 27 08:26:07 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: DEC B400X expansion chassis References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726215955.01cea3d0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <011501c116a3$ede3e3a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > So you can plug a 3400 card set into it, or a KA660 (VAX 4000/200) > card set into it. Both work just fine. But you _cannot_ plug a 4000/300 > board set into it. Is this a Q-CD issue, a bandwidth issue or what? John A. From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Jul 27 08:58:28 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: NCD HMX stuff available Message-ID: <126.2106589.2892cd84@aol.com> During a recent pickup of some DEC, I was also given a couple NCD HMX Xterminal bases. These are the pizza box ones. I was told one had a bad power supply and the other had no video output. Given that, I pulled the good power supply and the two network cards. One card has BNC/AUI and the other has RJ45/AUI. They're available for S&H. Mike From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 27 09:28:47 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: ASCII (was: Universal filename translation) In-Reply-To: <20010727011322.N6628-100000@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > One of my crazy ideas is how to solve the internationalization problem. > Use extended ASCII or some now 8-bit-wided character set, and declare > English to be the official international language of the platform. Screw > this Unicode crap. I agree. This reminds me of something that Frances Uruqhart (sp?), played by Iain Richardson, said in "House of Cards." I don't have the exact quote, but he suggested that what the Europeans need is not a common currency, but a common language, namely English. :-) That sounds like what the U.S. needs as well, with all of the idiotic bizdroids over here bowing down to the speakers of Spanish. Even when calling the telephone company one has to "press 1 to hear this recording in English, or [some weird foreign sounding phrase with the word espanol in it]. Alas, Georgieporgie Dubya amBush isn't going to help things, as he appears to have the idea of transforming the U.S.A. into the U.S. of Mexican Jumping Beans (this probably has something to do with why they have cars modified to jump up and down on air-shocks in Mexico and California). -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 27 09:28:20 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: DEC B400X expansion chassis In-Reply-To: from "John Allain" at Jul 27, 2001 09:26:07 AM Message-ID: <200107271428.f6RESKG13952@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > So you can plug a 3400 card set into it, or a KA660 (VAX 4000/200) > > card set into it. Both work just fine. But you _cannot_ plug a 4000/300 > > board set into it. > > Is this a Q-CD issue, a bandwidth issue or what? The 4000/300 and up CPUs use a different bus for CPU and memory interconnect. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From marino13 at btinternet.com Fri Jul 27 09:35:24 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (marino13@btinternet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! Message-ID: <8076580.996244524016.JavaMail.root@127.0.0.1> Lucky person! I only ever "rented" a Veccy from a local electronics shop for a few days at a time, me being a devout G7000/Odyssey owner at the time (and heavily into LCD handhelds/tabletops - as am I still!). Keeping your original machine is SO much more rewarding I think - getting something back that you loved as a kid but sold is cool, but digging your ACTUAL machine from the loft is way better. I still kept my original "Ball" Nintendo Game n Watch (the first on out of the series) so thats pretty special to me. And my first ever Pong! The Lightpen and Imager (and the art cart) are really sought after - look after and enjoy!!! Shaun > > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:38:34 0100 Shaun Stephenson > wrote: > > > I'm not normally interested in games, but the Vectrex is one console I > > > spent real money on. Reason ? It's got the right CPU (68A09) and a vector > > > display. Vector displays are fun... > > > > Bloody great machine and in good nick the screen is incredible. > > Wish I had one boxed > > :( > > I have a boxed Vectrex that I bought from Hamleys (big > London toy-shop, in Regents Street) in 1984 for 50 quid. > I went down there on the back of a friend's motorbike, and > carried the Vectrex home the same way. Still works, and I > have the light pen and most of the games and overlays. I > know someone who has the 3D Imager, too! > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 27 10:56:21 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010727060516.0080ccb0@costanzo.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Lance Costanzo wrote: > A parallel port ZIP drive is very handy for this sort of thing. But since some think that the "drivers" (GUEST.EXE) will not work with an 8088, the value of your drive that does work just doubled. > Easy to setup; in your case I'd format a disk in the old PC (360K), > take it to a newer PC, SYS it with 6.22, put the files on it > for the ZIP drive, and boot it on the old PC. When using GUEST.EXE, it doesn't even need to be rebooted. In a surprisingly sensible move, Iomega actually wrote it so that it inserts itself into the device driver chain without rebooting! > The parallel ZIP > only needs a 1/2 dozen or so control files to work. Unless you want WINDOZE, I think that it just needs GUEST.EXE. > a:guest (assigns ZIP to drive D) > xcopy c:*.* d: /s /e (put it on the floppy when you sys it) /V !!!!!! > It make take awhile. Go have lunch. One 100M disk will be way more than adequate for a 251. But if you want to use disks that are already half full, or do larger drives, then you can do an ATTRIB C:\*.* /S +A to set the attribute bytes on all files and add a /M to the XCOPY command. That way, it will copy all files, including sub directory contents and structure, reset the archive bits on the files that it copies, and when the destination disk fills up, another XCOPY C:\*.* D: /E/S/V/M will cause it to continue from where it left off. (The /V is because I CARE whether the copy was successful) The biggest problem with XCOPY /e/s/v/M is that if you encounter a file that is too big to fit on an empty destination disk (such as WINDOZE swap file), it will hang there, and you will have to manually (ATTRIB) reset the archive bit of that file even to skip it. Use XCOPY32 if WIN9x file nicknames (LFN) matters to you. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 27 11:05:40 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info Message-ID: <20010727110540.Y9013@mrbill.net> Anybody know what the power requirements for an 11/750 (base unit) are? I've got a chance to get two of them for cost of freight... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jul 27 11:38:14 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: References: <3B6063A9.43683567@btinternet.com> from "Shaun Stephenson" at Jul 26, 1 07:38:34 pm Message-ID: <3B61B516.5968.1EA66B9@localhost> > > Well you're probably in a moniroty but, as for arcade collecting (yes, > > I dabble in > > this too!), the US guys get a better share of the goodies, and > That is certainly the case. On the other hand, there are some machines > that are common in the UK and much rarer in the States (tbe BBC micro > being an obvious example). And some machines that are essentially unknown > in the States (are there any Acorn System racks of eurocards in the States?) I would even doubt that a remarkable number ever left the Brit island (Eire except) ... At least I never saw one over here. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 11:43:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270411.f6R4Bkr12590@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 26, 2001 07:51:51 PM Message-ID: >> Two examples of the results of that... AmigaDOS, BeOS. There are others. > >AmigaDOS is different, but I don't know if it has all the features >I'd like. As far as I know, BeOS tries to be somewhat Unix compatible. Personally I'd say that BeOS tried to be a combination of AmigaOS and UNIX. Note, I said tried, because they're either dead or dying, and AmigaOS is more alive than they are. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aek at spies.com Fri Jul 27 11:43:01 2001 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: HP 88780 scsi command ref? Message-ID: <200107271643.JAA08595@spies.com> I've been having trouble locating a copy of the manual which fully describes the command set supported by the 88780. I have the maint manual, but it doesn't talk about how to program the drive. If you have a copy of a manual which describes this, please email me at aek@spies.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 11:45:14 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270435.AAA22031@conman.org> References: <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> from "Terry Collins" at Jul 27, 2001 10:11:52 AM Message-ID: > QNX is a very cool operating system, which unfortunately (from my >perspective) runs only on the Intel platform. It's a true microkernel and >unlike Mach (which is about the only microkernel that is widely known) it >actually runs fast! And it has an incredible network filesystem/message >passing paradigm that blows Unix out of the water (imagine being able to run >a program on one computer, pipe the output to a program on a second computer >and send that to a printer on a third computer---all from the command line >ala Unix?). Do some research, QNX runs on a *LOT* more than IA, and yes, it seems to be pretty cool. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 27 11:34:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>But all that aside, see my previous message: security, physical or >>virtual, is YOUR responsiblity. If you don't want anyone coming into your >>house or your server, LOCK THEM UP! Did they still get in? You didn't >>use good enough locks. Try again. > >OH... I see... The victim has primary responsiblity for the crime. I must >admit, I do agree with your statement "LOCK THEM UP". But it's not the house >or the server that shuold be locked up, it's the CRIMINALS! I think a server on a high bandwidth connection with the default root and password could easily be considered an attractive nuisance. Just like a backyard swimming pool with no fence or lock on the gate. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 12:04:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: References: <200107250250.f6P2onu03864@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Is it possible to use both TCP/IP and DECnet over the same network >hardware with VMS? Once I get this machine connected via the terminal >server to another machine, I'll grab a copy of CMUIP and GCC. Yes, it's possible to do that, unfortunatly it sounds like you're in a bit of a pickle as to how to get stuff onto the machine at the moment. Do you have anything else running OpenVMS? I'm guessing you don't, something like a VAXstation 3100 would be really nice at this point. I always recommend a SCSI based VAX as a first VAX because of this. >It appears, at first glance anyway - when my VT320 terminal isn't >trying to quit working, that I don't have the software installed which >is needed for the DECserver 200. Argh! I'm so used to my 90L+ that I forgot about that, yes, the DECserver 200 needs to boot off of the VAX, and who knows if you've got the software needed to do that on the VAX. >This is a VAX-4000/200 with two DSSI disks; alas, no SCSI. Nice system, if you've got a Q-Bus SCSI controller that works with CD-ROMS, or a Q-Bus CD-ROM controller (and the right cable and CD-ROM) you could put that in there. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 27 12:09:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: Message-ID: <000b01c116be$f42446e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're right, Mike, but people who trespassing onto the "attractive nuissance" should be shot before they drown. You have YOUR stuff and I have MINE. You have your private space and I have mine. I have both the right and responsibility to protect my private space and my property. The courts have upheld the property owner's right to apply deadly force in protecting his/her own life/property. This presents an option to other forms of population/pest control that some might find attractive. Now all we need is a way to transmit deadly force over the internet. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > >>But all that aside, see my previous message: security, physical or > >>virtual, is YOUR responsiblity. If you don't want anyone coming into your > >>house or your server, LOCK THEM UP! Did they still get in? You didn't > >>use good enough locks. Try again. > > > >OH... I see... The victim has primary responsiblity for the crime. I must > >admit, I do agree with your statement "LOCK THEM UP". But it's not the house > >or the server that shuold be locked up, it's the CRIMINALS! > > I think a server on a high bandwidth connection with the default root and > password could easily be considered an attractive nuisance. Just like a > backyard swimming pool with no fence or lock on the gate. > > > From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Jul 27 12:18:13 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited Message-ID: In a message dated 7/27/01 1:00:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: > OH... I see... The victim has primary responsiblity for the crime. I must > >admit, I do agree with your statement "LOCK THEM UP". But it's not the > house > >or the server that shuold be locked up, it's the CRIMINALS! > > I think a server on a high bandwidth connection with the default root and > password could easily be considered an attractive nuisance. Just like a > backyard swimming pool with no fence or lock on the gate. > Excellent analogy!! Somebody falls in your insecure pool and YOU are at fault. This scenario happens all too often in America. It should not be this way agreed, but it is. -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Jul 27 12:19:14 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: References: <200107270435.AAA22031@conman.org> <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727131133.0339b820@mail.njd.concentric.com> Another option is to build a PDP11 from the things you paid too much for on eBay. Take a look here: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257207414 Someone just bid more than $500 for an RD52 with RSTS/E v9 on it. No computer, mind you -- just the disk. Yikes! -- Tony From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 12:33:20 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727101934.02f0dae0@209.185.79.193> At 11:20 PM 7/26/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: >But all that aside, see my previous message: security, physical or >virtual, is YOUR responsiblity. If you don't want anyone coming into your >house or your server, LOCK THEM UP! Did they still get in? You didn't >use good enough locks. Try again. This kind of works and kind of doesn't. I can certainly agree that I am responsible for putting locks on my private spaces, however I also believe that entering someone else's private space without their permission is, at a minimum, extremely rude, and at most a criminal act. Further, the "crime" aspect of trespassing goes up when you are clearly aware that your presence is not invited (i.e. posted signs, a log-on banner that says keep out, a door that is closed to my house). If you purposely violate an area asking you not to, than YOU, the trespasser, have to take responsibility for whatever happens to you, and whatever damage you do. So you go where you don't belong and you get killed that is your own dumb fault, not the owner of the place where you illegally entered. As to Jeff's question about why computer crimes are treated more severely than local crimes, it turns out that only the FBI can investigate crimes that cross state boundaries and computer crimes invariably do. Then federal law establishes punishments based on getting the FBI involved and typically its a much higher bar then getting the local sheriff involved. Thus the punishments are invariably higher. Thus the apparent disproportionate severity associated with computer crime is actually a structural issue within the law enforcement structure rather than a mis-matched parity issue of "high tech" vs "low tech." There are folks in our government who would like to nationalize the police departments of the states to "fix" this problem for you, don't let them. --Chuck From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jul 27 12:28:45 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Apple II mini-assembler In-Reply-To: References: <200107132003.PAA95227@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3B61C0ED.18262.218A5A7@localhost> > The Enhanced Apple IIe has the mini-assembler built-in. From the monitor, > type an exclamation point and press RETURN. I am not sure about the IIc's > or IIgs's, but I would guess they support it the same way. > If you boot a DOS 3.3 System Master, it loads the language card with > Integer BASIC and the rest, including the mini-assembler. > I have some information about the Apple II ROMS, including the > mini-assembler source code, at > http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/6502/6502.htm Shure about that ? The Apple ][ had a dissassembler and mini assembler in it's ROMs, while starting with the ][+, or to be more correct, with introduction of the Autostart ROM/Applesoft ROM the mini assembler had been removed (together with the Sweet16 interpreter, some Monitor commands and some other usefull subroutines. I still remember that one of my first long session on my brand new A][+ in 1979 was to key in the mini assembler from the ROM listings and modify it to run in memory (address changes) ... It took me almost two days without sleep - and soon threafter I got a small loan to buy two disk drives - working from cassette did work fine on a KIM with quite small programms, but on the Apple with huge, one, two or sometimes 3 KILOBYTE programmes was a different task :)) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 12:31:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: <20010727110540.Y9013@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >Anybody know what the power requirements for an 11/750 (base >unit) are? I've got a chance to get two of them for cost of >freight... >From the April-June 1984 VAX SOG: CPU, 1MB RAM & fully configured DD11-DK Unibus Expansion Backplane 120V 11.5A 240V 5.75A Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jul 27 12:34:47 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <000b01c116be$f42446e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 27, 01 11:09:53 am Message-ID: <200107271734.NAA05420@wordstock.com> > > You're right, Mike, but people who trespassing onto the "attractive nuissance" > should be shot before they drown. > > You have YOUR stuff and I have MINE. You have your private space and I have > mine. I have both the right and responsibility to protect my private space and > my property. The courts have upheld the property owner's right to apply deadly > force in protecting his/her own life/property. This presents an option to other > forms of population/pest control that some might find attractive. Now all we > need is a way to transmit deadly force over the internet. > Have you read Neuromance by William Gibson? In the book they have computer protection called "Black ICE" which can kill someone trying to break into a computer over the network.. The novel was written *long* before the internet we know today. Cheers, Bryan From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 12:34:07 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727131133.0339b820@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <200107270435.AAA22031@conman.org> <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> Message-ID: >Another option is to build a PDP11 from the things you paid too much for on >eBay. Take a look here: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257207414 > >Someone just bid more than $500 for an RD52 with RSTS/E v9 on it. No >computer, mind you -- just the disk. > >Yikes! > >-- Tony They weren't bidding on the Hard Drive, they were gambling they'd be able to get RSTS/E V9 off of it. Of course if they're willing to gamble that much, they should have enough money to just go buy the license and media for the current version! Granted that would be quite a bit more, but still... Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 12:40:37 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: VAX license pak issues -- resolution (an easy way around data entry) In-Reply-To: <200107271313.f6RDDi314214@bg-tc-ppp1558.monmouth.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726223335.02432eb0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727103812.02f08eb0@209.185.79.193> My technique is to take the layered products file and "comment out" the UCX license. Then install the UCX and VAX-VMS licenses when I do the install, configure the ethernet port, ftp over the file with the UCX license commented out and type @foo.com and get everything licensed. (No APL or PL/I though :-() Burning it on a CD rom also works. I've also managed to use the LMF to load the licenses the trick it to realize that both the product date and termination date are the same value. --Chuck At 09:13 AM 7/27/01 -0400, Bill wrote: >FYI -- for those folks who were offerring suggestions to my VAX >license problems -- here's the resolution which eliminated a lot >of data entry... From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 12:45:14 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: DEC B400X expansion chassis In-Reply-To: <011501c116a3$ede3e3a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010726215955.01cea3d0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727104238.02ec7520@209.185.79.193> At 09:26 AM 7/27/01 -0400, John wrote: > > So you can plug a 3400 card set into it, or a KA660 (VAX 4000/200) > > card set into it. Both work just fine. But you _cannot_ plug a 4000/300 > > board set into it. > >Is this a Q-CD issue, a bandwidth issue or what? Its a bus issue, in the 4000/300 and beyond DEC went to a dedicated bus for the CPU and memory that was _not_ Q-Bus. Thus in those machines the backplane as several slots of this other bus (CPU + memory) and then a regular Q/CD backplane to the left of those. One big Sbox bulkhead covers the weird slots (I call it the CPU box) If you replace the backplane in a B400X then you can use a 4000/{3,4,5,6,7}0{0,5}{,a} --Chuck From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Jul 27 12:41:24 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: US Tour Message-ID: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Since I will spend the next 7 weeks in the US, on a cross coutry tour, starting in Baltimore in about a week (sorry, due circumstances I will miss VCF East by 5 days :(), I'd love to hear some hints about places to visit. The rough schedule will touch MD, NY, CT, RI, PA, OH, IN, IL, KA, CO, WY, MT, ID, WA, OR, CA - or so. Any Ham fests, swap meets, etc ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 12:49:18 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010727131133.0339b820@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <200107270435.AAA22031@conman.org> <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727104833.02ecd2a0@209.185.79.193> This was pretty amazing. I think I have an RD52 around here somewhere with RT-11 on it ... > Someone just bid more than $500 for an RD52 with RSTS/E v9 on it. No computer, > mind you -- just the disk. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 12:55:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Custom OS ( was Re: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <3B60FF72.1C97F94@internet1.net> References: <200107270138.f6R1cTO12038@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727100033.03573a80@209.185.79.193> At 01:43 AM 7/27/01 -0400, Chad wrote: >Wasn't Plan 9 supposed to be sort of like that? No, it was more like Rob Pike's vision of where UNIX should have gone. Eric Dittman wrote: > > I've thought about this, myself. Almost any new OS wants to work like > Unix. > > What I'd like to see is a community effort to make a new OS that does what > > needs to be done without worrying about being compatible with something > that > > currently exists. There are a zillion flavors of "works like UNIX." Everything from the command shell is similar (MS-DOS can do this) to "device drivers are compatible." The POSIX effort to create a compatible library interface didn't do to well in my opinion either. When I joined what was to become the Java group at Sun it was in the 'portable OS' group. We were looking at building an entire OS in Java (Oak at the time.) That effort I think would be a lot of fun using a compiler that compiled Java to machine code (rather than using a "java chip.") --Chuck From claudew at videotron.ca Fri Jul 27 13:07:54 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Next N4000 Megapixel -- whats c57 and C201B? References: Message-ID: <025601c116c7$0f640280$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi > > I have "restored" and tested the CRT on the N4000 (part no 135.00) MegaPixel > > monitor and seems to be ok on a Sencore CRT tester...dont think it would > > last for years now but should be giving a picture.... > > > > But I am still without a picture. > > > > When power is turned on, I can hear the HV "crackle" for a fraction of a > > second but then no HV. > > Do you know just what is shutting down? For example, are the low voltage > lines from the mains PSU (presumably switch-mode, but I'd not bet on it) > present after shut-down? B+ looks like about 90VDC kinda low....but that monitor quite different.... > > I dont know if someone played around in this monitor but on the verticaly > > mounted board ("analog board"?) C57 and C201B (top near flyback) are > > One thought. C201B sounds like it might be associated with C201A. It was > quite common to have 2 positions in parallel for some capacitors in some > machines so that it would be possible to make up the correct value (say > to compensate for differences in the flyback or CRT). You could easily > check if this is the case, and whether C201A is present or not. Cant locate a C201A. The 2 mosFETS and their heatsink that serve as HOT arent getting warm Id have to check if some kinda pulse is getting there but was trying to see if someone had repaired a few of these and could tell me common failures... Claude From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 27 13:12:21 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: US Tour References: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Message-ID: <006f01c116c7$ae983c40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Hans asked: +AD4- Any Ham fests, swap meets, etc ? I'll just give you my list: 2nd Saturday: FootHill College Electronics (CA) 3rd Sunday: MIT Electronics Flea Market (Apr. -+AD4- Oct.) Late Apr. weekend: (sorry) NJ Computer Festival Outer L.A. and VT are two places I haven't explored+ADs- they may be quite good. Actually you should spend 1/2 your time in Silicon Valley (see: http://www.kce.com/junk.htm ). After that all else pales. John A. From dlinder at uiuc.edu Fri Jul 27 13:19:51 2001 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: US Tour In-Reply-To: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Hans Franke wrote: > MD, NY, CT, RI, PA, OH, IN, IL, KA, CO, WY, MT, ID, > WA, OR, CA - or so. > > Any Ham fests, swap meets, etc ? http://www.arrl.org/hamfests.html This is the ARRL (American Radio Relay League) page for hamfests that have been registered with them. There's a lot in there. Nice search features too. - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 27 13:19:51 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Vintage Mac TOPS Flashbox References: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Message-ID: <009401c116c8$ba8604a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> People who can help Fred should reply to his address. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Scholl" Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: Vintage equipt Dear John, I am trying to find vintage mac networking equipment, specifically TOPS Flashbox and TOPS Flashcard. They were used for interconnecting Macs and PCs around 1991. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Regards, Fred Scholl ----- Original Message ----- John A. From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jul 27 13:25:08 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <200107271734.NAA05420@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20010727132125.P7919-100000@localhost> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Bryan Pope wrote: > > Have you read Neuromance by William Gibson? In the book they have > computer protection called "Black ICE" which can kill someone trying > to break into a computer over the network. If I remember correctly, the 'netrunner' character class in the Cyberpunk RPG has a direct neural interface to the net, and (h|cr)ack with it. The danger in that comes from the ability of the netrunner's adversaries to crack into that interface and do nasty things like stop the netrunner's heart. Gives a whole new meaning to "reach out and touch someone". -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 13:27:08 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: US Tour In-Reply-To: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Message-ID: >places to visit. The rough schedule will touch >MD, NY, CT, RI, PA, OH, IN, IL, KA, CO, WY, MT, ID, >WA, OR, CA - or so. > >Any Ham fests, swap meets, etc ? I'm not aware of any in Oregon during that time, about the best places I know of in the Portland Area are "Powells Technical Books", and the two Wackie Willies stores. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 27 13:36:13 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:07 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <000b01c116be$f42446e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > You're right, Mike, but people who trespassing onto the "attractive > nuissance" should be shot before they drown. You have YOUR stuff and I > have MINE. You have your private space and I have mine. I have both > the right and responsibility to protect my private space and my > property. The courts have upheld the property owner's right to apply > deadly force in protecting his/her own life/property. Only in Texas. Throughout the rest of the country, "self defence" only applies if you have reasonable cause to feel that you are in danger. Only in Texas is it legal to shoot somebody in the back when they are running off with your walkman. The rest of the country takes a view that life is more valuable than property. In fact, it is even considered murder to setup a shotgun with a trip wire. Therefore, if you are regularly and often dealing with it, perhaps you should have a supply of loaner weapons for "guests". > This presents > an option to other forms of population/pest control that some might > find attractive. Now all we need is a way to transmit deadly force > over the internet. So, Richard's next major project will be a way to transmit molten iron? Why be so gentle? Why not REALLY make them suffer? Sign them up for MICROS~1 beta programs. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 27 13:25:26 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: References: <200107250250.f6P2onu03864@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Recently some discussion of international shipping was going on. Here is my shipping track from a Fedex package I just received from Thailand. Flat rate $15 service. Delivered SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 09:01 On FedEx vehicle for delivery SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:29 Arrived at FedEx Destination Location SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:13 Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES CA 07/27/2001 05:32 Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:20 Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:14 Package status ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 15:49 Arrived at FedEx Ramp ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 13:31 Left FedEx Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:53 Arrived at Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:45 Left FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 20:38 Arrived at FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 19:19 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 27 13:30:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <000b01c116be$f42446e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: >You're right, Mike, but people who trespassing onto the "attractive nuissance" >should be shot before they drown. > >You have YOUR stuff and I have MINE. You have your private space and I have >mine. I have both the right and responsibility to protect my private >space and >my property. The courts have upheld the property owner's right to apply >deadly >force in protecting his/her own life/property. This presents an option to >other When did this happen? Everything I have read says property no, life or injury yes, ie somebody trashing your car you don't get to shoot. I have no property worth someones life. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 27 13:44:30 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <20010727132125.P7919-100000@localhost> Message-ID: During "Operation Sundevil", the feds kicked down a lot of doors looking for the "cyberdecks" that amplify brainwaves for cracking systems. They never did acknowledge that they were mistaken, nor that Steve Jackson Games was involved in SCIENCE FICTION, not real overthrow of the guvmint. But they did eventually return most of the pieces of his hard drives, motherboards, etc. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > > Have you read Neuromance by William Gibson? In the book they have > > computer protection called "Black ICE" which can kill someone trying > > to break into a computer over the network. > > If I remember correctly, the 'netrunner' character class in the Cyberpunk > RPG has a direct neural interface to the net, and (h|cr)ack with it. The > danger in that comes from the ability of the netrunner's adversaries to > crack into that interface and do nasty things like stop the netrunner's > heart. > > Gives a whole new meaning to "reach out and touch someone". > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 27 14:18:12 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <20010727132125.P7919-100000@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Gives a whole new meaning to "reach out and touch someone". That reminds of of that movie from years back: "Number 5 is Alive;" I think that was the correct title. In the movie, someone was electrocuting people by sending a high-voltage/current spike through the telephone network to their telephones. This was back before electronic switching systems were in wide-spread use. The movie showed lots of banks of the old step-by-step switches with all of the selectors and connctors moving about. It was really neat to see all of that equipment in motion; they showed how calls were, supposedly, traced. Its a shame that that AT&T insisted on scrapping all of those old bits of equipment; when I worked there back in the mid 1980s, in a department that did central office planning and was still working with that old switching equipment, I was told that I couldn't purchase, or otherwise obtain, any of it, that the company's policy was to scrap it. :-( -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aknight at mindspring.com Fri Jul 27 10:33:43 2001 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks In-Reply-To: <20010726122700.X1408@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> References: <20010726140847.37189.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.1.20010727112737.00a29c40@mail.mindspring.com> Hello, At 07:27 PM 7/26/2001 +0000, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: >I have an alarm clock which sets itself from this signal. Of course the >first such clock (old enough to be on topic, even) AFAIK was the Heathkit >Most Accurate Clock. But those cost big bucks. Nowadays I'm seeing more >commercial clocks which do this, at reasonable prices. I have a Radio Shack alarm clock that does this, they've been on sale for $40 or so. I've even seen a big, wall-sized clock at Costco that syncs to the broadcast time signal for $20. The University of North Carolina just spent $20K or so outfitting all of it's classrooms with this type of clock, I guess so the students won't have an excuse for being late to the next class ;-) >WWV is broadcast on at least 5, 10 and 15 MHz (exactly); maybe other >frequencies too, I'm not sure. And I think some of the transmitters are >in other places besides Colorado, the idea being that everywhere in the US >you can always receive at least one of them. I'm not sure which freq(s) >these clocks listen to. Most (maybe all) of the "atomic-controlled" clocks sold as consumer products synchronize to the WWVB transmissions on 60 KHz out of Ft. Collins, Colorado. There is a nice description at the NIST web site: http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/wwvb.htm Regards, Alex Knight The Calculator Museum Web Page http://www.calcmuseum.com From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 04:32:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Broadcasting Atomic Clocks (was Re: hayes chronograph) In-Reply-To: <20010726140847.37189.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2183.608T2950T6326619optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> but there's an >> atomic clock down in Germany which broadcasts its time. IUt's quite easy to >> obtain clocks which rely on its signal >I have one. It's an add-on for a car with internal and external temp >sensors. I picked it up when I was in Munich last year and didn't >realize that you _can't_ set the time manually. I was figuring that it'd >be fun to have a thermometer, and the fact that we don't have the same >clock transmitter in the States wouldn't be a problem. It is. I have a >car thermometer that knows what time it is in Germany. LOL. ^_^;; >> Anyway, that should be the optimal timekeeping device, assuming you can >> come up with the hardware and that you're within reach of the transmitter. >There is a transmitter in Colorado, but I am not aware of any hobby projects >to take advantage of it. They did start building VCRs that could set >themselves off of a time signal broadcast over PBS stations, but I think I >heard something about that being a failed program and being discontinued >at some point. When I heard about it, it suggested to me that if the >atomic clock radio signal had good propgation characteristics, they would >have used that instead of a time signal from a TV station, but perhaps it's >more an issue of Daylight Savings Time. ISTR that teletext is not that common in the NTSC world (though there's another system called closed-captioning, used for encoding text for the hearing-impaired, which is sometimes used on laserdiscs as well), but just about every PAL station has got teletext pages, which are accompanied by a time signal. At least one of my VTRs may be set to fetch its time from any preset station. And since teletext decoders must be one of the most common homebrew projects of all time, adapting one of those could be another idea. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I can't understand ANY current MICROS~1 product names! Are they now created with a random word generator? What is the intent behind the name "Visual Studio" for their compiler suite? What is "Interdev"? Why is the Virus Transfer Protocol product named "Outlook"? Grumpy Ol' Fred From optimus at canit.se Thu Jul 26 23:10:44 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub In-Reply-To: <20010726172923.Y1408@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <1258.608T2200T3106265optimus@canit.se> Shawn T. Rutledge skrev: >On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:03:02PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >> It's better to think of the 'hub' as being distributed in the 10base2 >> transceivers (the modules that connect between the AUI port and the >Well I have seen hubs to which coax is connected. Some were probably >arcnet, but weren't coax hubs ever used for thinnet? Maybe to boost >the signal and get past the length limitation, or maybe to isolate >"problem" branches so they don't interfere with other branches? We're using such a beast at the usergroup, it's a modular 3C588 repeater with fourteen card slots so that it may be customised the the particular topology of the customer. Ours if filled with cheapernet cards, and it certainly makes the network more managable, granting some of the benefits of 10BaseT (central "administration", blinking lights) while still retaining the basic bus topology of 10Base2, which is preferable in many cases to the tentacle-like TP nets. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 04:46:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513CB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <1079.608T600T6463949optimus@canit.se> Douglas Quebbeman skrev: >You would mention that... I've got a Dell PowerEdge 2400 sitting three >feet away that's slowly robbing me of my hearing... it has a "slow mode" >but since airflow around the unit is a problem, I don't feel safe using >it... so it stays set on "hurricane"... Isn't it funny how computers seem to have kicked into some kind of de- evolution? The Sinclair ZX-anything was small, cheap and silent. So was just about every micro "back then". The standard home PC nowadays is a bulking tower case with one buzzing HDD, one humming CDD, one fan for the PSU, one on top of the heatsinks on the CPU and one or more on top of the heatsinks on the graphics card. I don't think anyone 20 years ago, or even ten years ago, would have expected modern computers to be so noisy and prone to over-heating. It's obviously a syndrome of PC speed demons dictating every aspect of computer development. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. You can't prove anything about a program written in C or FORTRAN. It's really just Peek and Poke with some syntactic sugar. Bill Joy From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 04:56:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Megagraphics Message-ID: <1526.608T1100T6565213optimus@canit.se> I've been a whole lot to the junkyard this week. Together with a friend, I salvaged to 1990 vintage monitors. One is an Idek Iiyama 21" one, which works fine. I appreciate the fact that it's got both a D9 TTL input, a D15 analogue input, five BNC analogue inputs and five BNC outputs. The only minor flaw is the analogue connector, which is a plain D15, not a D15HD. I found that it used the same "standard" D15 VGA cable as IMP monitors, though. Anyone heard of some kind of common D15 VGA pinout? The other monitor, though, is an anonymous beast. It's around 19", and the label at the front says Megagraphics. On the back, apart from all the warnings and certifications, it says that it's been manufactured by Zenith, and the model number is 19MGM2. It's rather short in the back, which implies (to me, at least) that it's a monochrome monitor. It's got a D9 female input. The case style reminds me somewhat of a Xerox monitor (a lot of straight lines, very much late 80s). The size makes me think that it probably isn't TTL. Possibly ECL, which really wouldn't do me any good. OTOH, there's a chance that it could be analogue, and if I'm really lucky, that it uses the "standard" D9 VGA pinout. Does anyone know anything about this monitor, or have any advice on how to find anything out through probing? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music." David McMinn From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 05:38:02 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010726185805.018108c0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <552.608T100T6983389optimus@canit.se> Roger Merchberger skrev: >Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: >>> > I'm not normally interested in games, but the Vectrex is one console I >>> > spent real money on. Reason ? It's got the right CPU (68A09) and a >>> > vector display. Vector displays are fun... >Hmmm... The Hitachi 6309 is a pretty interesting CPU, too... ;-) Is that a 6809 clone or an SH3? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Och har du en TV utan Scart, vilket nittionio procent faktiskt har, kommer de f?rmodligen att ringa fr?n Antikrundan. Martin Timell From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 05:47:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: argh was Re: FDDI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1663.608T300T7073937optimus@canit.se> Dan Linder skrev: >On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: >> I apologize if my last remark (regarding FDDI, Ford Festivas, and >> using the right tool for the job) sounded snotty. I'm just trying to >> stand up for my principles, that combined with the fact that I'm in a >I agree; Ethernet is all well and good (cheap, etc) - but I doubt that too >many people would call it "elegant". Now FDDI (and other token-based >protocols) - I would call elegant. Especially when you want to do any >kind of worst-case analysis for real time or other sensitive applications. That certainly depends on your perception of elegance. I like the concept of an "ether" which is shared amongst stations. Some might think that token- passing mechanisms are overly involved. I simply say that one should use the right tool for the right job. >The ethernet story is amusing. Here's a protocol (based on ALOHA, which >actually makes sense) that was initially bus-based that has since become >more-or-less point-to-point, at MUCH higher speeds, and yet the underlying >principles have never changed. So the whole point of ethernet has >basically been nill'ed out by going to entirely switched networks. I'm not that fond of the switching concept for that reason. It perverts the original intentions of the architecture, in effect removing the common ether. Still, I'm often dazzled by the thought that even in this day, we're using a network architecture which was first devised in the mid-seventies. You can't trace such a long mileage for much else in the computer world. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Life begins at '030. Fun begins at '040. Impotence begins at '86. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 05:52:37 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <698.608T1850T7125723optimus@canit.se> VAX collector skrev: >People who break into computers are criminals. Well, but I'd rather have a curious hacker than someone into credit card fraud or blackmail. Or someone who's just into typing Format SYS:. >People who launch DDOS attacks are criminals. What's more important, they're utter bastards. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute, I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes, and still continue to function as a computer ;) iVan From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 05:57:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Collecting microprocessors? In-Reply-To: <000301c1158d$beb3a1e0$babcbace@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <346.608T1200T7174689optimus@canit.se> The Forslunds skrev: >Anyway, is there anyone else out there collecting these? A friend of mine has been selling some queer old Intel clones to some collector. I just tend to think he's a pervert. What's he using all those processors for? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/44MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 06:06:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <002c01c11577$ca6cbd20$f3884b0c@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <983.608T2800T7266789optimus@canit.se> CELang skrev: >Well... If it were me, I'd just hook the things together modem to modem (or >serial port to serial port as the case may be) and send everything over >using terminal software. Procomm was what I used on my olde '286 and XT; >Hyperterminal for my Pentium machine. I'd do the ethernet solution. You don't really need an 8-bit ethernet card, NE2000 cards are supposed to work in 8-bit mode, too. Then you'd need some kind of networking protocol and drivers. Most DOS network packages use packet drivers, which are contained in the crynwr package (ftp://ftp.crynwr.com/drivers/pktd11.zip) or supplied with your card. Since my network is pure TCP/IP (and occasional Appletalk), I use the WATTCP stack for DOS. Some more DOS/Windows-based solution might be preferable in this case, though, but that's not my fort?. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 06:15:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> Message-ID: <1055.608T2800T7356053optimus@canit.se> Terry Collins skrev: >Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: >> just how much has been lost to time in the onslaught of Microsoft and Unix >> (the two worst things to happen to the industry but some might argue about >> the Unix bit 8-) >At the risk of pandering to a troll, what were/are the alternatives? The Mac /is/ an alternative, present tense. If you're using Windows, you're just really a misguided Mac user nowadays. >I am not interesting in hearing about MS as having had to deal with it >for 17 years, I've lived why it was a bad thing. >Unix - well fragmentation is the only thing I can think of, which is >being mirrored in Linux these days. UNIX is for masochists. I'll never get along with that system, it's so unfriendly, it was perceived as unfriendly even back in the seventies. And it will never conquer the desktop. >what alternative(s) was there? AmigaOS, BeOS, TOS. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Jul 27 14:21:47 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jul 27, 01 11:44:30 am Message-ID: <200107271921.PAA29115@wordstock.com> > > During "Operation Sundevil", the feds kicked down a lot of doors looking > for the "cyberdecks" that amplify brainwaves for cracking systems. And I thought the X-Files was make-believe... > > They never did acknowledge that they were mistaken, nor that Steve Jackson > Games was involved in SCIENCE FICTION, not real overthrow of the guvmint. > But they did eventually return most of the pieces of his hard drives, > motherboards, etc. > Bryan From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 27 14:16:49 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:25:26AM -0700 References: <200107250250.f6P2onu03864@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010727141649.Q19092@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:25:26AM -0700, Mike Ford wrote: > Recently some discussion of international shipping was going on. Here is my > shipping track from a Fedex package I just received from Thailand. Flat > rate $15 service. Was this 3-day? I had a Ultra 30 shipped to me from the UK once, "priority overnight", and it actually took two days, due to the customs issue. Box had big "OPENED BY US CUSTOMS" stickers all over it. FedEx told me they dont guarantee overnight from other countries due to this issue. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 27 14:18:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: US Tour In-Reply-To: <006f01c116c7$ae983c40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Message-ID: >Actually you should spend 1/2 your time in Silicon Valley >(see: http://www.kce.com/junk.htm ). After that all else >pales. I wish it were still true, but eBay has infected almost every place on your list. They may not know what you have, what it does, or if it works, but they sure know what one sold for on eBay once. My guess is that some good sources do still exist, but nobody wants to risk someone infecting them. ;) Places I like to find are the scrappers, places where people bring loads of circuit boards etc. School surplus sales, where all the local auction listings get published, thats the hard to find, but worth it information. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 27 14:04:17 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? Someone else picks up the tab when these things are routed the Delta Airlines way. I mean Delta in that my mom-in-law got a ticket from Phoenix to Louisville - went from Phoenix to LAX (Los Angeles) to Miami, to Louisville. Southwest ran the same time, was $35 cheaper and went from Phoenix to DFW (Dallas) to Lousiville - 4 hours less flying too and just the one stop in DFW of 12 mins as opposed to switching planes in LAX, waiting 35 mins, then to Miami, switching with a 1 hour wait, and off to Louisville. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:25 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> Recently some discussion of international shipping was going on. -> Here is my -> shipping track from a Fedex package I just received from Thailand. Flat -> rate $15 service. -> -> Delivered SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 09:01 -> On FedEx vehicle for delivery SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:29 -> Arrived at FedEx Destination Location SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:13 -> Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES CA 07/27/2001 05:32 -> Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:20 -> Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:14 -> Package status ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 15:49 -> Arrived at FedEx Ramp ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 13:31 -> Left FedEx Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:53 -> Arrived at Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:45 -> Left FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 20:38 -> Arrived at FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 19:19 -> -> From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 14:32:51 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270540.f6R5eY212853@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010727193251.52619.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Dittman wrote: > > It's not multi-user so it lacks file permissions but it's a single user OS > > anyway. True, it's primarily a GUI-based, single-user machine, but I used to do maintenance work over VT220 via "newshell Well, for one thing I'd want multiuser capability, clustering, and the > GUI would have to be improved. I never liked the looks of the Amiga GUI; > it looked primitive to me. I haven't seen an Amiga lately, so I don't > now if the looks of the GUI ever improved. The pre-2.0 stuff reminds me of old versions of GEM. The later stuff got better, but anyone who has fixated on any GUI preference will probably find even the latest Amiga UI to be "primitive". > I use a GUI primarily to manage several text windows, so I could ignore > most of the GUI anyway, but the text displays would have to be fixed. That's mostly how I used my SPARC5 at work - I could tile four xterms and get lots of stuff done at once - tail a log file in one, edit code and other files in another, create accounts in another and have a spare for whatever machine I needed to get to on the intranet. It didn't matter to me if it was OpenLook or CDE or whatever, as long as I could fix 2x2 text windows of 25x80 chars. Back in the old days, I only had room for two VT100s on my desk so I had a serial switcher (or some of our CiTOH terminals supported two sessions as long as you didn't mind manual refresh). Same concept - don't tie me down to one text input thingy, no matter how it's done. > And the OS should not require a GUI for system operation. I like my > systems to be connected to a terminal server with one main system > acting as the terminal (along with my VT525). The Amiga passes for that, too. Unlike the Mac, they come with a shell. Unlike Windows, you don't need to use a GUI tool to change trivial parameters. It's precisely these reasons why my favorite OSes include AmigaDOS, UNIX and VMS. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 14:34:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <200107271921.PAA29115@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20010727193423.66146.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> On 27 Jul 2001 12:15:56 +0100, "Iggy Drougge" wrote: > UNIX is for masochists. Whip me, beat me, fsck me! -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dlw at trailingedge.com Fri Jul 27 14:39:38 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: New finds Message-ID: <3B617D2A.31669.131AA4E@localhost> It's been a good day. Picked up a couple of new items. One, I picked up an Atari Portfolio with spare 128k and 64k memory cards and the PC Card drive from someone in Germany in exchange for some DVDs I produce. It near mint condition it appears. Doc is in german but I can understand enough to get me through. Now to go hack some ATMs. :-) The other cool item was the first dual processor BeBox! First in this case as in the first one off the assembly line. Can't wait to get this home and hooked up. Of course I don't think that falls under the 10 year rule. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Jul 27 14:39:12 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Classic phone equipment (was Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited) In-Reply-To: ; from rdd@smart.net on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:18:12PM -0400 References: <20010727132125.P7919-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <20010727123912.A7459@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:18:12PM -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: > Its a shame that that AT&T insisted on scrapping all of those old bits > of equipment; when I worked there back in the mid 1980s, in a > department that did central office planning and was still working with > that old switching equipment, I was told that I couldn't purchase, or > otherwise obtain, any of it, that the company's policy was to scrap > it. :-( It does survive in a few places. See http://www.scn.org/tech/telmuseum/index.html for one such place (in Seattle). From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 14:47:50 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727124455.02ef4a90@209.185.79.193> At 02:04 PM 7/27/01 -0500, you wrote: >Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? Because FedEx sends everything "in" to Memphis and "out" to its destination. This was the basis for their entire concept. If you read the story of how they got started the guy who started them realized the post office (and most shippers) spent way too much time trying to optimally route packages that could just as easily be routed by setting up one routing system from a central point. Thus the routes were all fixed (i.e. to go to San Jose from Memphis goes blip, blip and blip. etc.) and there was no "loss" due to trying to compute n x m ideal routes. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jul 27 14:49:46 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <20010727193423.66146.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200107271921.PAA29115@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727124916.02ef5600@209.185.79.193> At 12:34 PM 7/27/01 -0700, Ethan wrote: >Whip me, beat me, fsck me! Isn't that ls me, vi me, fsck me! From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jul 27 14:59:17 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010727145822.F7919-100000@localhost> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Only in Texas is it legal to shoot somebody in the back when they are > running off with your walkman. Is that tongue-in-cheek, or are you serious? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From allain at panix.com Fri Jul 27 15:00:15 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Vintage Mac TOPS Flashbox References: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> <009401c116c8$ba8604a0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00bb01c116d6$c1030ea0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> People who can help Fred should reply to his address. [ Here now NOT charset="utf-7" (apologies -JEA) ] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Scholl" Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: Vintage equipt Dear John, I am trying to find vintage mac networking equipment, specifically TOPS Flashbox and TOPS Flashcard. They were used for interconnecting Macs and PCs around 1991. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Regards, Fred Scholl ----- Original Message ----- John A. From dittman at dittman.net Fri Jul 27 15:26:47 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <20010727145822.F7919-100000@localhost> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Jul 27, 2001 02:59:17 PM Message-ID: <200107272026.f6RKQln15286@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Only in Texas is it legal to shoot somebody in the back when they are > > running off with your walkman. > > Is that tongue-in-cheek, or are you serious? The use of deadly force to protect the loss of your property is legal in Texas *AFTER* dusk. Dusk isn't defined as an exact time, however, but DAs tend to be flexible when considering whether to file charges or not, as long as there are no questions about the circumstances surrounding the event. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From kapteynr at cboe.com Fri Jul 27 15:30:21 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Vintage Mac TOPS Flashbox Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DE58@msx1.cboe.com> John: You wrote: "People who can help Fred should reply to his address.", but I can't figure out this address. Anyway, I noticed that one of the big electronic surplus places had tons of TOPS network stuff ~5 years ago. I think it was Alltronics in San Jose, but I am not sure. -Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: +ACI-Frederick Scholl+ACI- +ADw-freds+AEA-monarch-info.com+AD4- Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: Vintage equipt Dear John, I am trying to find vintage mac networking equipment, specifically TOPS Flashbox and TOPS Flashcard. They were used for interconnecting Macs and PCs around 1991. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Regards, Fred Scholl ----- Original Message ----- John A. From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 27 15:48:07 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <20010727193423.66146.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 27 Jul 2001 12:15:56 +0100, "Iggy Drougge" wrote: > UNIX is for masochists. If UNIX is for masochists, then it only stands to reason that Microsoft products are the choice of very twisted and perverted masochists seeking brutally painful methods of brain damage. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 15:33:20 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: New finds In-Reply-To: <3B617D2A.31669.131AA4E@localhost> from "David Williams" at Jul 27, 2001 02:39:38 PM Message-ID: <200107272033.f6RKXKZ00971@shell1.aracnet.com> > The other cool item was the first dual processor BeBox! First in > this case as in the first one off the assembly line. Can't wait to get > this home and hooked up. Of course I don't think that falls under > the 10 year rule. It may not fall under the 10 year rule, but the BeBox definitely falls under the cool oddball tech exemption, especially in this case! Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 27 15:31:48 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? Someone else picks up >the tab when these things are routed the Delta Airlines way. I mean Delta in >that my mom-in-law got a ticket from Phoenix to Louisville - went from >Phoenix to LAX (Los Angeles) to Miami, to Louisville. Southwest ran the same >time, was $35 cheaper and went from Phoenix to DFW (Dallas) to Lousiville - >4 hours less flying too and just the one stop in DFW of 12 mins as opposed >to switching planes in LAX, waiting 35 mins, then to Miami, switching with a >1 hour wait, and off to Louisville. Its called a HUB, curious aint it? From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 27 15:36:40 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727124455.02ef4a90@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: So if a package is shipped from NYC to Boston it has to go to Memphic first? That doesn't seem to make sense at any rate. A central hub system makes sense but not for everything unless it has to pass thru that point from start to finish. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chuck McManis -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:48 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> At 02:04 PM 7/27/01 -0500, you wrote: -> >Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? -> -> Because FedEx sends everything "in" to Memphis and "out" to its -> destination. This was the basis for their entire concept. If you -> read the -> story of how they got started the guy who started them realized the post -> office (and most shippers) spent way too much time trying to optimally -> route packages that could just as easily be routed by setting up one -> routing system from a central point. Thus the routes were all -> fixed (i.e. -> to go to San Jose from Memphis goes blip, blip and blip. etc.) and there -> was no "loss" due to trying to compute n x m ideal routes. -> -> -> -> -> From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 27 16:24:08 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Yes, it's possible to do that, unfortunatly it sounds like you're in a bit > of a pickle as to how to get stuff onto the machine at the moment. Do you > have anything else running OpenVMS? I'm guessing you don't, something like > a VAXstation 3100 would be really nice at this point. I always recommend a > SCSI based VAX as a first VAX because of this. I've got a VAXstation 2000 with SCSI; I think it's running ULTRIX. Perhaps I should order the hobbyist VMS distribution, put a different hard drive in the system, attach a CD-ROM to it (will any SCSI CD-ROM drive work?), and install VMS. Could I then do a backup to SCSI tape over DECnet? Is there much of an advantage to upgrading to OpenVMS from VAX/VMS 5.5? > Argh! I'm so used to my 90L+ that I forgot about that, yes, the DECserver > 200 needs to boot off of the VAX, and who knows if you've got the software > needed to do that on the VAX. Not sure. I do know that DECnet software is installed. Perhaps I should write down some of the message that I get while booting and jot down some things found while poking around the system. > >This is a VAX-4000/200 with two DSSI disks; alas, no SCSI. > > Nice system, if you've got a Q-Bus SCSI controller that works with CD-ROMS, > or a Q-Bus CD-ROM controller (and the right cable and CD-ROM) you could put > that in there. Ok, I guess that SCSI is the best choice, but, those Q-bus SCSI boards are still way too expensive. It looks like using a smaller VAX with SCSI (hopefully it's not also DSSI), connected to the VAX 4000-200, is the way to go. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jul 27 16:26:27 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <20010727193423.66146.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > On 27 Jul 2001 12:15:56 +0100, "Iggy Drougge" wrote: > > UNIX is for masochists. > > Whip me, beat me, fsck me! > ....make me use BLISS!!! g. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 16:18:39 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010727211839.62263.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > So if a package is shipped from NYC to Boston it has to go to Memphic first? > That doesn't seem to make sense at any rate. A central hub system makes > sense but not for everything unless it has to pass thru that point from > start to finish. But you get savings at not trying to put two-way routing intellegence at each major nexus. At Cleveland, let's say, all stuff that comes in, goes out on the planes to Memphis early every evening, and stuff to get routed within the Cleveland area arrives later in the evening. No sorting is required at Cleveland to figure out if it goes to Memphis or not. If you multiply this by hundreds of metro areas, the savings is clear. Now... it's possible to insert a minimal level of sorting so you don't ship a package from one Cleveland address to another via Memphis, but if it goes from one metro area to another, routing to a hub is more efficient, even if you pass your destination on the way to the hub. There is a plane from NYC to Memphis and back every night; there is a plane from, Boston to Memphis and back every night; why add a plane from NYC to Boston? You already have four legs that have to be there anyway that will get the package there. It only would become an issue if you could fill a plane, night after night from one place to another that you'd even want to think about bypassing the hub. I think these days, the original concept has been extended to allow for multiple hubs, permitting a much smaller route optimization than solving for m x n, but the concept is still valid. Economically, people will pay more for "absolutely, positively has to be there overnight". The optimization here is for time first, cost second. If the customer could wait, they could choose a lower-priority delivery technique. The Post Office and UPS optimize for cost first, delivery-time second. Different models. Given that FedEx also offers lower priority delivery, they probably aren't filling each and every plane, each and every night with stuff. If they were, there wouldn't be room to stuff the lower priority items in the corners. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 27 16:23:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Vintage Mac TOPS Flashbox In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DE58@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: >Anyway, I noticed that one of the big electronic surplus places had tons >of TOPS network stuff ~5 years ago. > >I think it was Alltronics in San Jose, but I am not sure. I think the operative word here is "had". I sure didn't notice any during my trip last year. BTW I will be giving Palo Alto another visit about 8/16 and 8/17 (not sure about Saturday the 18th, and rats 3rd Sat of month with nothing going on). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jul 27 16:19:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: <20010727141649.Q19092@mrbill.net> References: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:25:26AM -0700 <200107250250.f6P2onu03864@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 11:25:26AM -0700, Mike Ford wrote: >> Recently some discussion of international shipping was going on. Here is my >> shipping track from a Fedex package I just received from Thailand. Flat >> rate $15 service. > >Was this 3-day? I had a Ultra 30 shipped to me from the UK once, >"priority overnight", and it actually took two days, due to the >customs issue. Box had big "OPENED BY US CUSTOMS" stickers all >over it. FedEx told me they dont guarantee overnight from other >countries due to this issue. My package was a pre metered Fedex envelope with $192 of spinel gemstones, Fedex intl priority, and it was claimed to me here in 2 to 3 days. Looks like it skipped through customs without a squeak. It had a ziplock bag on the front though with all the docs etc. I don't see how from the distance etc. they could hope to beat the 36 hour transit time I had though. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 16:33:11 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Pocket protectors Was: RE: Fun "events" for VCF In-Reply-To: <3B6102D3.24D4B948@home.com> Message-ID: <20010727213311.63709.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Doug Coward wrote: > This just got me to thinking.... > How did pocket protectors become associated with 'computer > enthusiasts'? Have you ever seen the National Lampoon's "How to Spot a Nerd" poster? I don't know if they drove the trend or if the trend drove them, but there's a data point, c. 1973 (don't remember exactly when it came out). > And how many here have wore a pocket protector on a regular > basis in the past? Not me. Too young. I remember them, but I never wore one. > My father wore a pocket protector all the time even when > he was not in uniform. In the 60's he managed gas stations. I think they were lots more common in 1968 than 1978. > Uniform shirts were expensive and the pocket protectors > were handed out for free by parts, tool, and oil distributors. > In the pocket protector he always carried - a tire gauge, > two pens (for filling out credit card slips), and a small > screwdriver. But that's a specific application - trademen wearing uniforms. Pens would leak, screwdrivers would poke holes in your shirt - all reasons why someone invented the pocket protector in the first place. I imagine the shift in public opinion came about because only Engineers and Tradesmen would have probably worn them, even in the 1960s, and to have one with two pens and a screwdriver proves that you are a) ready to handle lots of situations, and b) not normal as a result of being prepared. The combination of elements would make Joe Sixpack think that only Gas Station attendants and Geeks would ever want/need one, and he's not either one of those, so... -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 27 16:34:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: <20010727145822.F7919-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <007301c116e3$e3927ca0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Hey! That Texas is all right! And they have no personal income tax ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:59 PM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > Only in Texas is it legal to shoot somebody in the back when they are > > running off with your walkman. > > Is that tongue-in-cheek, or are you serious? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 27 16:20:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: Message-ID: <007001c116e3$e31cfe80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> When there get to be enough thieves that those law abiding citizens who get robbed become tired of it, the law may change to the extent that your property becomes worth more than the fleas that choose to steal it. In the meantime, we'll just have to make stew out of their flesh, cat food from their innards, and fertilizer from their bones ... at least that way they serve SOME useful purpose. Is it really worth the effort? more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > You're right, Mike, but people who trespassing onto the "attractive > > nuissance" should be shot before they drown. You have YOUR stuff and I > > have MINE. You have your private space and I have mine. I have both > > the right and responsibility to protect my private space and my > > property. The courts have upheld the property owner's right to apply > > deadly force in protecting his/her own life/property. > > Only in Texas. Throughout the rest of the country, "self defence" only > applies if you have reasonable cause to feel that you are in danger. > Only in Texas is it legal to shoot somebody in the back when they are > running off with your walkman. The rest of the country takes a view that > life is more valuable than property. In fact, it is even considered > murder to setup a shotgun with a trip wire. Therefore, if you are > regularly and often dealing with it, perhaps you should have a supply of > loaner weapons for "guests". > > > This presents > > an option to other forms of population/pest control that some might > > find attractive. Now all we need is a way to transmit deadly force > > over the internet. > > So, Richard's next major project will be a way to transmit molten iron? > The molten iron treatment is reserved for halftime at the superbowl so as to make an appropriate example of the sorts that disregard laws as a matter of habit. > > Why be so gentle? Why not REALLY make them suffer? Sign them up for > MICROS~1 beta programs. > They'd sue us for treating them badly, just as the parents sue teachers for making kids sit in their chairs rather than running around the classroom attacking other kids. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 27 16:26:51 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: Message-ID: <007101c116e3$e3463160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't know about you, but ALL my property, even the contents of my dumpster, is worth more than the life, or, in fact, the combined lives, of all the thieves in the world. They effectively relinquished their right to life by stealing your right to property and privacy. You can plug a thief any time you like, provided you don't allow the appearance that he's trying to escape. If you don't kill him, you should be charged with discharing a firearm into a public nuissance. Nobody should be in your house unless you wish it so. If they are, and they refuse to leave the premises, and leave YOUR property behind, they should be dealt with appropriately. YOU, as the offended party, get to decide whether that involves the local authorities or not. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:30 PM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > >You're right, Mike, but people who trespassing onto the "attractive nuissance" > >should be shot before they drown. > > > >You have YOUR stuff and I have MINE. You have your private space and I have > >mine. I have both the right and responsibility to protect my private > >space and > >my property. The courts have upheld the property owner's right to apply > >deadly > >force in protecting his/her own life/property. This presents an option to > >other > > When did this happen? Everything I have read says property no, life or > injury yes, ie somebody trashing your car you don't get to shoot. I have no > property worth someones life. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 27 16:31:01 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: Message-ID: <007201c116e3$e367c320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Golly! I remember that movie, but IIRC, it was part of an afternoon TV serial. I remember the scene where the sleepy cop has the phone up to his ear backwards, thereby thwarting the bad guy's attempt to dispense with him. That "Number 5 is Alive" is was a sequel to a different movie, one that my kids liked pretty well, as it was about a robot and its builder. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > Gives a whole new meaning to "reach out and touch someone". > > That reminds of of that movie from years back: "Number 5 is Alive;" I > think that was the correct title. In the movie, someone was > electrocuting people by sending a high-voltage/current spike through > the telephone network to their telephones. This was back before > electronic switching systems were in wide-spread use. The movie > showed lots of banks of the old step-by-step switches with all of the > selectors and connctors moving about. It was really neat to see all > of that equipment in motion; they showed how calls were, supposedly, > traced. > > Its a shame that that AT&T insisted on scrapping all of those old bits > of equipment; when I worked there back in the mid 1980s, in a > department that did central office planning and was still working with > that old switching equipment, I was told that I couldn't purchase, or > otherwise obtain, any of it, that the company's policy was to scrap > it. :-( > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 27 16:36:40 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: <20010727211839.62263.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Possibly so but I know from relative's expereince as drivers and package handlers that FedEx wages are much less (even for pilots) than UPS so the cost savings may be there thru cuts internally despite the dispatching. Don't get me wrong, I like the service I get from both UPS and FedEx and would like to see them put USPS out of the package biz, but it doesn't seem to have a logic to the plan. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 4:19 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> -> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: -> > So if a package is shipped from NYC to Boston it has to go to -> Memphic first? -> > That doesn't seem to make sense at any rate. A central hub system makes -> > sense but not for everything unless it has to pass thru that point from -> > start to finish. -> -> But you get savings at not trying to put two-way routing intellegence at -> each major nexus. At Cleveland, let's say, all stuff that comes -> in, goes out -> on the planes to Memphis early every evening, and stuff to get -> routed within -> the Cleveland area arrives later in the evening. No sorting is -> required at -> Cleveland to figure out if it goes to Memphis or not. If you -> multiply this -> by hundreds of metro areas, the savings is clear. Now... it's -> possible to -> insert a minimal level of sorting so you don't ship a package from one -> Cleveland address to another via Memphis, but if it goes from -> one metro area -> to another, routing to a hub is more efficient, even if you pass your -> destination on the way to the hub. There is a plane from NYC to Memphis -> and back every night; there is a plane from, Boston to Memphis and back -> every night; why add a plane from NYC to Boston? You already have four -> legs that have to be there anyway that will get the package there. It -> only would become an issue if you could fill a plane, night after night -> from one place to another that you'd even want to think about bypassing -> the hub. -> -> I think these days, the original concept has been extended to allow for -> multiple hubs, permitting a much smaller route optimization than solving -> for m x n, but the concept is still valid. Economically, people will pay -> more for "absolutely, positively has to be there overnight". -> The optimization -> here is for time first, cost second. If the customer could wait, they -> could choose a lower-priority delivery technique. The Post -> Office and UPS -> optimize for cost first, delivery-time second. Different models. -> -> Given that FedEx also offers lower priority delivery, they -> probably aren't -> filling each and every plane, each and every night with stuff. If they -> were, there wouldn't be room to stuff the lower priority items -> in the corners. -> -> -ethan -> -> -> ===== -> Visit "The Seventh Continent" -> http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html -> -> __________________________________________________ -> Do You Yahoo!? -> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger -> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 16:40:26 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: US Tour In-Reply-To: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Message-ID: <20010727214026.64540.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > Since I will spend the next 7 weeks in the US, on a > cross coutry tour, starting in Baltimore in about a > week (sorry, due circumstances I will miss VCF East > by 5 days :(), I'd love to hear some hints about > places to visit. The rough schedule will touch > MD, NY, CT, RI, PA, OH, IN, IL, KA, CO, WY, MT, ID, > WA, OR, CA - or so. > > Any Ham fests, swap meets, etc ? Dayton ComputerFest, Hara Arena (site of the Hamvention), Dayton, Ohio, Saturday and Sunday, August 25-26. Mostly new stuff, some flea-market tables. Many fewer vendors on Sunday than Saturday. Big Amiga gathering there. I've seen an Apple ][ LCD screen for sale there ($200), I bought an Apple QuickTake camera ($35) and SCSI DAT drives ($5) and even the occasional DEC cable there. It's hit or miss, not as nice as it used to be, but what is? Also in Dayton is Mendelson's, four floors of who knows what you'll find there. Do you know when you will be in Ohio? I still have the Farm and I'm happy to extend my hospitality to you again if I'm around (got some vacation coming up next month). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 16:42:35 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 27, 2001 05:24:08 PM Message-ID: <200107272142.f6RLgZ604207@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've got a VAXstation 2000 with SCSI; I think it's running ULTRIX. > Perhaps I should order the hobbyist VMS distribution, put a different > hard drive in the system, attach a CD-ROM to it (will any SCSI CD-ROM > drive work?), and install VMS. Could I then do a backup to SCSI tape > over DECnet? Is there much of an advantage to upgrading to OpenVMS > from VAX/VMS 5.5? Is this one with patched ROMs to use SCSI disks? Otherwise all it will probably talk to is the braindamaged TK50Z (I think it's the -FA varient). As for the question of weather or not there would be an advantage to moving up to V7.2 or higher, I'm really not sure. It largely depends on what you wish to do with the machine. I keep one system at V5.5 for software builds, as software built on V5.5 will in most cases run on all higher versions of OpenVMS. If you've got more than 16MB of RAM, and you're wanting to learn OpenVMS, then I'd say install V7.2 at this time, and once V7.3 has had more time to mature, you might want to move to it. In my case I'm using my main OpenVMS machine as a SMTP server, Samba server, Appletalk Server, NFS server, etc. So, for me running the current version of the OS, and the latest TCPIP stack is a good thing. > > Argh! I'm so used to my 90L+ that I forgot about that, yes, the DECserver > > 200 needs to boot off of the VAX, and who knows if you've got the software > > needed to do that on the VAX. > > Not sure. I do know that DECnet software is installed. Perhaps I should > write down some of the message that I get while booting and jot down some > things found while poking around the system. Unfortunatly this is something I'm not able to offer suggestions on, I've still not figured out how to boot my 200, mainly thanks to lack of time :^( > Ok, I guess that SCSI is the best choice, but, those Q-bus SCSI boards > are still way too expensive. It looks like using a smaller VAX with > SCSI (hopefully it's not also DSSI), connected to the VAX 4000-200, is > the way to go. Another choice would be an early Alpha, such as one of the DEC 3000's, or an AlphaStation 200. The cheapest is probably a older VS3100. Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 16:57:37 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: <20010727110540.Y9013@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010727215737.90580.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know what the power requirements for an 11/750 (base > unit) are? I've got a chance to get two of them for cost of > freight... I don't have one in front of me, but ISTR that just the CPU with a full boat of RAM, not including any external BA-11s, disks, etc, pulls between 8-12A @ 110VAC. The mains is a 30A Twist-n-Lok connector, in case you don't have one already wired-in at home (I do! ;-) I wouldn't be surprised if half the power went to the blower. Filling the internal Unibus would, of course, raise the bar somewhat, at about 50-100W per board, I think. Nice machines. If you are lucky, they've been upgraded to take 14Mb of RAM. I only have 8Mb in mine. :-( It originally shipped with 512Kb and I did the upgrade myself when my employer used to own it (extra backplane wires, flip some switches on the CPU ID DIP pack (another post-factory upgrade!) and replace the mem controller). I think they are a good compromise between size and speed if you need PDP-11 compatibility mode. The 11/730 has a "real" console (the 11/750 runs out of its own ROM; it does not have a micro as a console processor and, therefore, does not require console media to start up (but there was a microcode patch late in life that may or may not be needed before the OS boots up, so some 11/750s *did* have a start-up TU-58)), but is about 50% as fast as an 11/750. Everything larger than an 11/750 is faster, but harder to move and sucks more power. If you are going to run one of them on a regular basis, you might want to check first, to see what boot ROMs are on it, since unlike the 11/730 and 11/780, does have them. Really old 11/750s might not have an MSCP boot. Ours did not (it shipped with RK07sand was originally fitted with a Systems Industries SI9900 SMD controller; it didn't see an RA81 until it was six or seven years old). The other thing to see is what MASSBUS cards are in it. You might find just a MASSBUS card for disk and tape (we had RM02s (for emergency purposes) and a TU78), an SI 9900 card (2 x 40-pin Berg connectors on the I/O panel), or even a second Unibus controller (DWBUA). We always had all the MASSBUS slots populated, it just depended on what year it was as to what was where. A 32-bit path to disk was great back in those days. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 27 17:13:59 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info Message-ID: Uhhhh, my 11/750 has a standard normal-looking 3 prong standard-outlet fitting plug.. It never has had a 30A twist-n-lock connector in all the time I've owned it... Is this a bad thing? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 17:14:54 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: <200107272142.f6RLgZ604207@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010727221454.69156.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I've got a VAXstation 2000 with SCSI... > Is this one with patched ROMs to use SCSI disks? Otherwise all it will > probably talk to is the braindamaged TK50Z (I think it's the -FA varient). Has anyone here successfully done this? I have the VAXen, I have a ROM burner, I have the patches and I have a complete 32-bit file with the patches applied. My uVAX-2000s are so old that I cannot apply the patch to what I have. My problem is that I have four ROMs and am not sure which ROM goes in which socket. Does anyone have a map of which sockets correspond to which bytes? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 17:22:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:08 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010727222202.68895.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >Anybody know what the power requirements for an 11/750 (base > >unit) are? I've got a chance to get two of them for cost of > >freight... > > From the April-June 1984 VAX SOG: > CPU, 1MB RAM & fully configured DD11-DK Unibus Expansion Backplane > > 120V 11.5A > 240V 5.75A The amperage sounds right, but I wonder if that 1Mb is 1 x 1Mb module or 4 x 256Kb modules (given the year, it's probably 4 x 256Kb). Someone (Cadminton?) made a 1Mb 11/730 and 11/750 memory board with 256Kx1 chips on it; if you could get 8 of those, you'd cut your total power consumption by an amp or two. I think I only have one. All the rest is real DEC MS750CA (I think) memory - two square feet of 4164s. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dlw at trailingedge.com Fri Jul 27 17:30:36 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: New finds In-Reply-To: <200107272033.f6RKXKZ00971@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3B617D2A.31669.131AA4E@localhost> from "David Williams" at Jul 27, 2001 02:39:38 PM Message-ID: <3B61A53C.25514.1CE3933@localhost> On 27 Jul 2001, at 13:33, Zane H. Healy wrote: > It may not fall under the 10 year rule, but the BeBox definitely falls > under the cool oddball tech exemption, especially in this case! Yes, it is a "cool oddball tech" item. Now I have to see what version of BeOS he has for it. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 17:31:15 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: References: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 26, 2001 07:51:51 PM Message-ID: >Personally I'd say that BeOS tried to be a combination of AmigaOS and UNIX. >Note, I said tried, because they're either dead or dying, and AmigaOS is >more alive than they are. BeOS, as well as the Be hardware, are both pretty cool. I don't think the OS ever got outside the realm of just being for tinkerers though since it had few real applications. I never did have any luck installing it on real Pentium machines at home though and unfortunately it's not supported as of yet by Virtual PC. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 27 17:32:55 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? Someone else picks up > the tab when these things are routed the Delta Airlines way. I mean Delta in ALL Fedex goes throught their "central" sort facility. If you fedex a packet to your neighbor, it still has to go there. My only complaint with Fedex is their algorithm for what to do with late packages. Since their primary metric is the NUMBER of packeages on time, NOT how late they are, ... Once a package is late, it will then not be processed until AFTER every package that is still on-time! Thus, instead of a late package delaying and making another package late, the late one may be delayed multiple additional days in order to not mess up their numbers! IOW, if packages ABCDEFGHIJK are sent sequntially, and B is late, rather than have CDEFGHIJK all be a little late, they will then be delivered ACDEFGHIJKB. Almost all of their packages are on time. The late one may be VERY late. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 17:33:33 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: References: <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> from "Terry Collins" at Jul 27, 2001 10:11:52 AM Message-ID: >Do some research, QNX runs on a *LOT* more than IA, and yes, it seems to be >pretty cool. One of the many supposed 'saviors' of the Amiga after the C= bankruptcy. I think I still have the Amazing/Amiga here that talks about the initial deal to use QNX as the basis for the NG Amiga. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 17:34:49 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: QNX (was Re: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010727223449.70317.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > QNX is a very cool operating system, which unfortunately (from my > >perspective) runs only on the Intel platform... > > Do some research, QNX runs on a *LOT* more than IA, and yes, it seems to be > pretty cool. Agreed. I heard of QNX _years_ ago on the mc68k platform, long before I saw it for the first time (on a 486, running the air handlers and environmental controls at the science lab at McMurdo; they also use it on the research boats for data collection as well as environmental monitoring and control). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 17:42:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <1079.608T600T6463949optimus@canit.se> References: <1079.608T600T6463949optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Isn't it funny how computers seem to have kicked into some kind of de- >evolution? The Sinclair ZX-anything was small, cheap and silent. So was just >about every micro "back then". >The standard home PC nowadays is a bulking tower case with one buzzing HDD, >one humming CDD, one fan for the PSU, one on top of the heatsinks on the CPU >and one or more on top of the heatsinks on the graphics card. I don't think >anyone 20 years ago, or even ten years ago, would have expected modern >computers to be so noisy and prone to over-heating. It's obviously a syndrome >of PC speed demons dictating every aspect of computer development. There are quiet systems out now though. Most of Apple's machines currently are pretty low key when it comes to noise. My G3/450 sitting next to me is very quiet and it has 2 hard disks, a DVD, and the one system fan all turning. At ~15 watts, the G3/G4 doesn't need the huge cooling fan/heatsink combos that the Pentiums do at ~40 watts. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 17:43:03 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010727224303.85962.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Will Jennings wrote: > Uhhhh, my 11/750 has a standard normal-looking 3 prong standard-outlet > fitting plug.. It never has had a 30A twist-n-lock connector in all the time > I've owned it... Is this a bad thing? Dunno... both of mine have a power cable that is identical to what we had on a standard bottom-of-the-rack power distribution box - at least 1/2" diameter, capped with a twist-n-lock. The 11/730, for example, has an IEC connector in the back of the PSU, but the 42" cabinet has the same power cable as the 11/750 coming out the back. Maybe we just ordered ours with the machine-room power option. Perhaps there was an "office power" cable option. You can safely pull 15A through a normal plug (with an appropriately gauged cable attached, of course). By the time you get to 20A, in North America, one blade rotates 90 degrees to keep you from sticking it into a 15A outlet (got one of those on the end of my PDP-11/24). You can buy 20A wall sockets that will fit 15A and 20A plugs. They have one vertical hole and one T-shaped hole to accomodate either kind of plug. 30A needs something like the twist-n-lock. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 17:45:29 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <983.608T2800T7266789optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010727224529.86208.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > I'd do the ethernet solution. You don't really need an 8-bit ethernet card, > NE2000 cards are supposed to work in 8-bit mode, too. Never tried it; I have either an NE1000 (8-bit native) or SMC8003 (same deal) in my Colt. I _think_ the 3C509 will even work in an 8-bit slot, presuming you don't have components sticking up into your ISA extension. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Jul 27 17:51:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513EE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > When there get to be enough thieves that those law abiding citizens who get > robbed become tired of it, the law may change to the extent that your property > becomes worth more than the fleas that choose to steal it. In the meantime, > we'll just have to make stew out of their flesh, cat food from their innards, > and fertilizer from their bones ... at least that way they serve SOME > useful purpose. Is it really worth the effort? Yup. Time to install that lime pit.... (BTW, I have instructions on how to make your own lime from limestone, if anyone needs it). -dq From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Fri Jul 27 17:52:25 2001 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: QNX hosts References: <20010727223449.70317.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <056701c116ee$ce56b120$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> I think you must be mistaken. Perhaps you're thinking of another system? I was in high school hanging out at the University of Waterloo when Danny Dodge (??)came to pick up his lineprinter listings I happened to be reading. It was the source code to what became QNX. He was part of a 3 member team writing a real time kernel as an assigment for a 3rd or 4th year real-time programming course. At the time the target was a generic intel 80186 box. Most interesting was that the cross development was done on a Honeywell Gecos mainframe... I later acquired QNX 1.0 for the 8088 IBM PC, Nabu 1600 (8086) and Cemcorp Icon (80186 bionic beaver, a machine put into every Ontario school) I still have all these machines - QNX was a perfect match for <512K mmu-less memory systems. The Nabu also has an add-on discrete mmu which allowed it to run Xenix in 512 K... amazing for the time as it benched close to the speed of a VAX even with miserably slow WD MFM drives. Could you be thinking of OS-9 ? for the 6809 or OS-9000 ? Regards, Heinz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 6:34 PM Subject: QNX (was Re: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home) > > --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > QNX is a very cool operating system, which unfortunately (from my > > >perspective) runs only on the Intel platform... > > > > Do some research, QNX runs on a *LOT* more than IA, and yes, it seems to be > > pretty cool. > > Agreed. I heard of QNX _years_ ago on the mc68k platform, long before > I saw it for the first time (on a 486, running the air handlers and > environmental controls at the science lab at McMurdo; they also use it > on the research boats for data collection as well as environmental > monitoring and control). > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 18:01:35 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 27, 2001 03:14:54 PM Message-ID: <200107272301.f6RN1ZR07966@shell1.aracnet.com> > Has anyone here successfully done this? I have the VAXen, I have a ROM > burner, I have the patches and I have a complete 32-bit file with the I've no idea, but I think people have done this successfully. I've only got one VAXstation 2000, and it's got bad RAM, so the only thing it's good for is a disk formatter (but then that was all I wanted it for in the first place). Zane From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 27 17:58:43 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: ID these boards (pictures) Message-ID: <20010727175843.I19092@mrbill.net> Check out http://content.sunhelp.org/boards/ Anybody know what these might be out of? No company name/markings that I can find. About the size of a modern PC motherboard, maybe a little smaller. They DONT look like DEC boards to me, but I may be wrong. The "levers" on each board to remove them are two different colors - one white with a label, one colored (I guess to color-code installing the boards). Each board has two card-edge connectors to plug into a backplane, and some have top-edge connectors (cables, etc, I would guess). Here's what they are so far: White Handle Other Part # ? -------------------------------------------------------- MICA green 176P1346-2-0 MICB green 170A113670-D DECODE green 176P1239-A DRIVER green 176P1238-B DMEM green/black? 176P1240-1-A FMEM yellow 176P1267-C MCS yellow 176P001282-C TERMINAL white 176A109450-A KBINT blue 176A116980-0 -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 16:03:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <3B61B516.5968.1EA66B9@localhost> Message-ID: <648.608T350T13234023optimus@canit.se> Hans Franke skrev: >> That is certainly the case. On the other hand, there are some machines >> that are common in the UK and much rarer in the States (tbe BBC micro >> being an obvious example). And some machines that are essentially unknown >> in the States (are there any Acorn System racks of eurocards in the >> States?) >I would even doubt that a remarkable number ever left the Brit >island (Eire except) ... At least I never saw one over here. Even then, Germany seems to be the biggest Acorn market outside the Commonwealth. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Keine Grenze verlockt mehr zum Schmuggeln als die Altersgrenze. --- Robert Musil From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 16:11:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010727060516.0080ccb0@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <494.608T2250T13316331optimus@canit.se> Lance Costanzo skrev: >A parallel port ZIP drive is very handy for this sort of thing. >Easy to setup; in your case I'd format a disk in the old PC (360K), >take it to a newer PC, SYS it with 6.22, put the files on it >for the ZIP drive, and boot it on the old PC. The parallel ZIP >only needs a 1/2 dozen or so control files to work. Don't parallel ZIP drives require a lot of bi-directional lines and so forth, not usually found on your common XT motherboard? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 15:50:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: IBM-PC keyboards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <715.608T1300T13105241optimus@canit.se> Master of all that Sucks skrev: >> >Looking on the bottom I see : >> >Part No : 1395300 IBM >> >ID No : 2117313 >> >Date : 12-05-1992 (C) IBM Corp. 1984 >> >> Doesn't it seem queer that the keyboard has got a "PS/2" plug while made >> several years before the introduction of the PS/2? I suppose it's not a PC >> keyboard, since there were no PCs around at that time into which it AFAIK >> could be plugged. >1992? PS/2s were already in Generation III. PS/2s came out in late 1987. Oh, I was reading the copyright date. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 18:56:40 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270439.AAA22044@conman.org> Message-ID: <2238.609T2000T565889optimus@canit.se> Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner skrev: >It was thus said that the Great Eric Dittman once stated: >> >> > Two examples of the results of that... AmigaDOS, BeOS. There are others. >> >> AmigaDOS is different, but I don't know if it has all the features >> I'd like. As far as I know, BeOS tries to be somewhat Unix compatible. > Well, AmigaDOS has processes, threads, semaphores, message ports, >messages, preemptive multitasking, multiple file systems and long file names >(on such filesystems that support that). It's not multi-user so it lacks >file permissions but it's a single user OS anyway. What else do you need? Every native filesystem has got at least thirty character filenames. More modern ones have bigger limits. Still, thirty characters is long to most, at least until you start playing with MP3 files. =) BTW, if you really want some multiuser stuff, there was a mufs update on Aminet as late as yesterday. =) > -spc (AmigaDOS was one of the more fun OSes to program for ... ) It should be pointed out that AmigaDOS is just the DOS of AmigaOS. As we established several months ago, AmigaDOS is very much a clone of the Tripos system. And it was programmed in BCPL. Unlike the rest of the OS, which is M68k assembler and C. Which caters for some funny acrobatics when the DOS expects BCPL structures and the OS (as well as the programmer) would like C structures. Originally, there was another DOS called CAOS under development. It was more UNIX-like and more compatible with the OS, but since the development dragged on, a quick port of Tripos was brought in as a replacement. Frankly, I think it's for the better. As a non-programmer end- user, it's really comfortable. Here's a URL: http://www.thule.no/haynie/caos.html All this elaboration was just to ask: Was it really so fun programming for? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga: (noun) The most technologically advanced computer that hardly anyone cares about. Use in sentence: "I wanted to buy an Amiga for its low price and great color graphics, but everyone else seems to be using IBMs or Macintoshes. So, to remain compatible with the rest of the world, I spent three times as much on a Macintosh and got only half the graphics capability of an Amiga." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 27 17:15:06 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: <10107270808.ZM2135@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jul 27, 1 07:08:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1126 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010727/b01a2881/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 27 16:54:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Ethernet -- thicknet and thinnet before 10BaseT In-Reply-To: <200107262331.f6QNVGu04738@bg-tc-ppp1494.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Jul 26, 1 07:31:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1527 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010727/1dc059a0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 27 17:23:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513E2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Jul 27, 1 09:40:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1871 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010727/13f93406/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 27 17:46:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: <8076580.996244524016.JavaMail.root@127.0.0.1> from "marino13@btinternet.com" at Jul 27, 1 03:35:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2464 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010727/d6a8958c/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 18:13:32 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: QNX hosts In-Reply-To: from "Heinz Wolter" at Jul 27, 2001 06:52:25 PM Message-ID: <200107272313.f6RNDWL08433@shell1.aracnet.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 6:34 PM > Subject: QNX (was Re: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home) > > > > > > --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > QNX is a very cool operating system, which unfortunately (from my > > > >perspective) runs only on the Intel platform... > > > > > > Do some research, QNX runs on a *LOT* more than IA, and yes, it seems to > be > > > pretty cool. > > > > Agreed. I heard of QNX _years_ ago on the mc68k platform, long before > > I saw it for the first time (on a 486, running the air handlers and > > environmental controls at the science lab at McMurdo; they also use it > > on the research boats for data collection as well as environmental > > monitoring and control). > > > > -ethan > I think you must be mistaken. Perhaps you're thinking of another system? > I was in high school hanging out at the University of Waterloo when > Danny Dodge (??)came to pick up his lineprinter listings I happened to > be reading. It was the source code to what became QNX. He was > part of a 3 member team writing a real time kernel as an assigment > for a 3rd or 4th year real-time programming course. At the time > the target was a generic intel 80186 box. Most interesting was that > the cross development was done on a Honeywell Gecos mainframe... > > I later acquired QNX 1.0 for the 8088 IBM PC, Nabu 1600 (8086) and > Cemcorp Icon (80186 bionic beaver, a machine put into every Ontario school) > I still have all these machines - QNX was a perfect match for <512K > mmu-less memory systems. The Nabu also has an add-on discrete mmu > which allowed it to run Xenix in 512 K... amazing for the time as it benched > close to the speed of a VAX even with miserably slow WD MFM drives. > > Could you be thinking of OS-9 ? for the 6809 or OS-9000 ? > > Regards, Heinz He's not mistaken, while the latest version(s) don't look to still support 68k processors, it does support a LOT of different CPU's. http://qdn.qnx.com/support/hardware/platform/processors.html Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jul 27 18:16:59 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <494.608T2250T13316331optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 27 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Don't parallel ZIP drives require a lot of bi-directional lines and so forth, > not usually found on your common XT motherboard? no unless you want good performance. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 27 18:32:36 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Guess it's better than the USPS way, better late than ever. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin -> (XenoSoft) -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 5:33 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: -> > Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? Someone -> else picks up -> > the tab when these things are routed the Delta Airlines way. I -> mean Delta in -> -> ALL Fedex goes throught their "central" sort facility. If you fedex a -> packet to your neighbor, it still has to go there. -> -> -> My only complaint with Fedex is their algorithm for what to do with late -> packages. Since their primary metric is the NUMBER of packeages on time, -> NOT how late they are, ... Once a package is late, it will then not be -> processed until AFTER every package that is still on-time! Thus, instead -> of a late package delaying and making another package late, the late one -> may be delayed multiple additional days in order to not mess up their -> numbers! -> -> IOW, if packages ABCDEFGHIJK are sent sequntially, and B is late, rather -> than have CDEFGHIJK all be a little late, they will then be delivered -> ACDEFGHIJKB. -> -> Almost all of their packages are on time. The late one may be VERY late. -> -> -- -> Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com -> -> From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Jul 27 18:39:27 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: FREE (for shipping) - a bunch of ISA and MCA token ring cards Message-ID: I have - ready for the dumpster- a bunch of token ringers. None are tested but came from working mo-chines. Heres' a rough breakdown of the 15 cards: 3 ea - NCR long MCA 16/4 cards, pn 770-00238 (2 B's, 1 A) RJ45 and 9 d-sub 1 ea - IBM short "Auto 16/4" FRU 92G7690 RJ45 only 4 ea - IBM short 16/4 FRU 74F9515 9 d-sub only 5 ea - IBM short 16/4 FRU 74F9321 9 d-sub only 1 ea - Thomas Conrad long ISA 16 bit w/ Tropic 500-4043-001 Rev A, 9 d-sub only 1 ea - 3Com TokenLink Velocity ISA 3C319 short 16 bit w/RJ45 and 9 d-sub Shipping by USPS, approx 10 lbs (might vary when packed but this is close). If not spoken for by Monday they get chucked. Postage would be from zip 42726 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010727/9f592e33/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jul 27 18:42:49 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Jul 27, 2001 11:23:40 PM Message-ID: <200107272342.f6RNgnO09720@shell1.aracnet.com> > In a sense, yes. I can't justify the cost of ownership (which is a lot > higher than the value of the machine) for such a machine. I'd rather spend > the money on something useful. I've got better things to put in the > space. I've got more interesting things to learn to fix than a PC where > half the components are probably unobtainable anyway. > > And I can assure you there's nothing that I want to do that I can't do on > my existing computers. OK, I'm curious, what hardware/Operating System do you use to get on the net? You've obviously got email access, do you have web, etc.? Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jul 27 18:42:03 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: ID these boards (pictures) In-Reply-To: ID these boards (pictures) (Bill Bradford) References: <20010727175843.I19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <15201.64587.988806.758541@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 27, Bill Bradford wrote: > Check out http://content.sunhelp.org/boards/ > > Anybody know what these might be out of? Definitely not DEC boards. Vaguely NCR-ish, but I'm really not sure. Can you put up a closeup of the backplane-side card-edge connectors? -Dave McGuire From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jul 27 18:45:07 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010727183940.B8540-100000@localhost> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > IOW, if packages ABCDEFGHIJK are sent sequntially, and B is late, > rather than have CDEFGHIJK all be a little late, they will then be > delivered ACDEFGHIJKB. > > Almost all of their packages are on time. The late one may be VERY > late. I think service guarantees are the reason behind their sequencing scheme. Broken guarantees cost them money. Once package B is late, its guarantee is broken, and nothing's going to change that. Letting B delay CDEFGHIJK would mean many more broken guarantees. Putting B off until the end (assuming CDEFGHIJK arrive on time) results in only one broken guarantee. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 27 18:45:08 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Free in Austin, TX: PDP-11 equipment Message-ID: <20010727184508.P19092@mrbill.net> I've got the following PDP-11 equipment free for pickup in Austin, Texas. David Williams from Houston has first shot since he is coming to pick up some uVAX-IIs, but anything else left is fair game. If you come get something (email me first!), you have to promise that it wont be scrapped or the front panels sold on eBay for some rich CEO's wall collection. I'd like it to all go to good homes where it will be appreciated. (god, I sound like an animal shelter) - PDP-11/60 and UNIBUS expansion cage (and some maintenance printsets) - two RX01's - one RK05J If anyone is interested, please email me. This stuff CAN NOT and WILL NOT be shipped - i cant even get some of it out of the crate I got it in. 8-( Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 27 18:49:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107272342.f6RNgnO09720@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 27, 1 04:42:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010728/d2106ad5/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Fri Jul 27 20:38:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <456.609T1550T1585479optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >On 27 Jul 2001 12:15:56 +0100, "Iggy Drougge" wrote: >> UNIX is for masochists. >If UNIX is for masochists, then it only stands to reason that >Microsoft products are the choice of very twisted and perverted >masochists seeking brutally painful methods of brain damage. As you said, it stands to reason. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei. --- Leonardo da Vinci From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 20:11:14 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Free in Austin, TX: PDP-11 equipment In-Reply-To: <20010727184508.P19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010728011115.98601.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > I've got the following PDP-11 equipment free for pickup in > Austin, Texas.... > > - PDP-11/60 and UNIBUS expansion cage (and some maintenance printsets) Too bad it's so far from Ohio. If we could only delete KY through OK, it'd be much closer. The only reason I've ever wanted an 11/60 is because long ago, I heard the story that its microcode engine was verified by a DEC engineer whose hobby was hacking the PDP-8 instruction set where it shouldn't belong. I heard he succeded in turning a PDP-11/60 in the Mill into the world's fastest PDP-8. Dunno what you could do about peripherals, though. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 20:24:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Seeking instructions for setting up a MAG MX17 monitor Message-ID: <20010728012406.99451.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> I got this 17" monitor from the local uni surplus recently. What caught my attention (besides the $10 price) was that it had an HD-15 VGA connector, a Macintosh 15-pin connector *and* BNCs, and a 2-line LCD display on the front. I figured it was worth the risk since with no cable attached, I couldn't test it there. It passed the crackle-hum test on the bench and I brought it home. Random button poking does not seem to be a useful way of guiding it through setup. There's a row of 8 numbered buttons (also labelled for changing width and position) and a menu button. Additionally, there is a toggle switch on the front for "BNC" vs. "DSUB" and for "user settings" vs "presets" I can get a stable picture of a laptop in its BIOS setup after a fashion, but it's only when I'm in the middle of certain operations on the monitor frontpanel. I can't get it to stick. The monitor LCD says that it's 640x480 @ 70Hz. If I get to the Phoenix spash screen telling me nifty things about the innards of the laptop prior to booting the disk, the MX17 tells me that the sync is "SuperVGA 800x600 @ 60Hz" which I guess makes sense even though it's a 80x25 character display because the laptop is nominally 800x600 unless you hit "Fn FONT" to kick it down to non-stretched pixels occupying 75% of the entire screen. It also matters if the CRT/LCD mode is one or both; that seems to affect what the external scan rate is (also not unexpected from earlier fiddlings with Solaris on this laptop - it was a bear getting the settings right for X on the LCD). So... ramblings aside, I'm looking for a setup guide for how to tell the monitor what to expect is coming in. It has 8 user-definable modes and I can't figure out how to tell it what the definitions are. I did a quick Google search and only came up with reseller sites and a couple quick mentions in an SGI Indy FAQ and a mega list of what scan rates are supported by which monitors for XF86 - less than 50 hits on MX17 in all. Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From game_tester at netzero.net Fri Jul 27 20:39:56 2001 From: game_tester at netzero.net (GT) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping References: Message-ID: <009701c11706$358473c0$0b9d3004@mshome.net> Here is my package's route from Amazon by UPS. Thank you UPS! Status: DELIVERY Shipment Date: Jun 27, 2001 Location/Signee: GUARD Destination: CHERRY HILL , NJ , US Date Time Location Service Area Checkpoint Details ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Jul 11, 2001 11:11:00 AM LAWNSIDE-PENNSAUKEN , NJ , US DELIVERY Jul 10, 2001 12:01:00 PM MEADOWLANDS , NJ , US UNLOAD SCAN Jul 10, 2001 03:10:00 AM MEADOWLANDS , NJ , US ARRIVAL SCAN Jul 05, 2001 09:14:00 PM LENEXA , KS , US DEPARTURE SCAN Jul 05, 2001 08:35:37 PM LENEXA , KS , US LOCATION SCAN Jul 04, 2001 02:40:00 AM DENVER , CO , US UNLOAD SCAN Jul 04, 2001 12:47:00 AM DENVER , CO , US ARRIVAL SCAN Jul 02, 2001 11:49:00 AM CACH , IL , US DEPARTURE SCAN Jul 02, 2001 12:38:00 AM CACH , IL , US ARRIVAL SCAN Jun 29, 2001 03:47:00 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US DEPARTURE SCAN Jun 29, 2001 03:02:46 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US LOCATION SCAN Jun 29, 2001 01:32:00 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US UNLOAD SCAN Jun 28, 2001 10:35:00 PM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US ARRIVAL SCAN Jun 28, 2001 09:44:00 PM PHILA AIR HUB , PA , US DEPARTURE SCAN Jun 28, 2001 07:58:00 PM PHILA AIR HUB , PA , US ARRIVAL SCAN Jun 28, 2001 05:23:00 PM BURTONSVILLE , MD , US DEPARTURE SCAN Jun 28, 2001 03:33:00 PM BURTONSVILLE , MD , US ARRIVAL SCAN Jun 28, 2001 11:55:00 AM STAUNTON , VA , US DEPARTURE SCAN Jun 28, 2001 10:50:00 AM STAUNTON , VA , US ARRIVAL SCAN Jun 28, 2001 06:12:00 AM CHARLESTON , WV , US DEPARTURE SCAN Jun 28, 2001 05:51:00 AM CHARLESTON , WV , US ARRIVAL SCAN Jun 28, 2001 01:20:00 AM LEXINGTON , KY , US DEPARTURE SCAN Jun 27, 2001 03:32:51 PM LEXINGTON , KY , US ORIGIN SCAN Jun 27, 2001 11:24:53 AM LEXINGTON , KY , US PICKUP MANIFEST RECEIVED ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:04 PM Subject: RE: Example of Fedex Intl shipping > Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? Someone else picks up > the tab when these things are routed the Delta Airlines way. I mean Delta in > that my mom-in-law got a ticket from Phoenix to Louisville - went from > Phoenix to LAX (Los Angeles) to Miami, to Louisville. Southwest ran the same > time, was $35 cheaper and went from Phoenix to DFW (Dallas) to Lousiville - > 4 hours less flying too and just the one stop in DFW of 12 mins as opposed > to switching planes in LAX, waiting 35 mins, then to Miami, switching with a > 1 hour wait, and off to Louisville. > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:25 PM > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping > -> > -> > -> Recently some discussion of international shipping was going on. > -> Here is my > -> shipping track from a Fedex package I just received from Thailand. Flat > -> rate $15 service. > -> > -> Delivered SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 09:01 > -> On FedEx vehicle for delivery SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:29 > -> Arrived at FedEx Destination Location SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:13 > -> Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES CA 07/27/2001 05:32 > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:20 > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:14 > -> Package status ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 15:49 > -> Arrived at FedEx Ramp ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 13:31 > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:53 > -> Arrived at Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:45 > -> Left FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 20:38 > -> Arrived at FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 19:19 > -> > -> > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 27 21:34:15 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Free in Austin, TX: PDP-11 equipment In-Reply-To: <20010728011115.98601.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com>; from ethan_dicks@yahoo.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 06:11:14PM -0700 References: <20010727184508.P19092@mrbill.net> <20010728011115.98601.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010727213415.T19092@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 06:11:14PM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The only reason I've ever wanted an 11/60 is because long ago, I heard > the story that its microcode engine was verified by a DEC engineer whose > hobby was hacking the PDP-8 instruction set where it shouldn't belong. > I heard he succeded in turning a PDP-11/60 in the Mill into the world's > fastest PDP-8. Dunno what you could do about peripherals, though. > -ethan This is a /60 *without* the chassis (er, rack?) you'd need something to mount it in... i've got the power supplies and everything, though. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mbg at world.std.com Fri Jul 27 21:39:36 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: Message-ID: <200107280239.WAA14774@world.std.com> "Number Five is alive" was a *line* from the movie Short Circuit Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 27 21:38:31 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: ID these boards (pictures) In-Reply-To: <15201.64587.988806.758541@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 07:42:03PM -0400 References: <20010727175843.I19092@mrbill.net> <15201.64587.988806.758541@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010727213831.U19092@mrbill.net> On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 07:42:03PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > Can you put up a closeup of the backplane-side card-edge > connectors? http://content.sunhelp.org/boards/tn/b10-backplane.jpg.html Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From blstuart at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 27 21:42:25 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:18:39 -0700 (PDT) . <20010727211839.62263.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Normally I don't chime in with regard to my employer but I may be able to add a little perspective and wouldn't be a good list member if I withheld my knowledge. Of course, I have to make the standard disclaimers. I don't speak for the company. Being on this list you probably correctly guess that I'm in development and not in operations, so my perspective won't be as good as Fred Smith's (the founder). In message <20010727211839.62263.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com>, Ethan Dicks wri tes: > >--- Russ Blakeman wrote: >> So if a package is shipped from NYC to Boston it has to go to Memphic first? In the beginning of the company, that's exactly what would happen. The most important thing here is that it only go through one hub so that we only have to spend time handling it once (at the hub level). Now if a single facility can handle all your volume, then you get some real economies of scale routing it all through there. >But you get savings at not trying to put two-way routing intellegence at >each major nexus. At Cleveland, let's say, all stuff that comes in, goes out >on the planes to Memphis early every evening, and stuff to get routed within >the Cleveland area arrives later in the evening. No sorting is required at >Cleveland to figure out if it goes to Memphis or not. If you multiply this >by hundreds of metro areas, the savings is clear. Now... it's possible to >insert a minimal level of sorting so you don't ship a package from one >Cleveland address to another via Memphis, but if it goes from one metro area >to another, routing to a hub is more efficient, even if you pass your >destination on the way to the hub. There is a plane from NYC to Memphis >and back every night; there is a plane from, Boston to Memphis and back >every night; why add a plane from NYC to Boston? You already have four >legs that have to be there anyway that will get the package there. It >only would become an issue if you could fill a plane, night after night >from one place to another that you'd even want to think about bypassing >the hub. This is a very good description. I'd add that the saving of the time of sorting is more of a motivating factor than saving on putting in the intelligence. In fact, we're always looking for ways of applying the information we have about the packages in order to make more intelligent routing decisions. Some of the projects I work on feed into such decision making. >I think these days, the original concept has been extended to allow for >multiple hubs, permitting a much smaller route optimization than solving >for m x n, but the concept is still valid. We have indeed added a number of additional hubs. It turns out that the necessity that bred this invention was the pragmatism of growth. We simply outgrew the original Memphis hub and ran out of space to expand it. So now say you send a package from Boston. The package will most likely go to a station in the Boston area and be sorted during a window from 6:30 to 9:00 (eastern). Depending on the destination, it is placed into one of several airplane containers which are then trucked to the airport. Those containers are then loaded onto planes headed for the various hubs. The strict sort time is required because (for example) planes must arrive at the Memphis hub by midnight. Now imagine the dance of hundreds of planes all landing during a 2 hour period, several hundred thousand packages removed from the planes, sorted, loaded back onto the planes and then the planes all going out again about 2 hours later. When the packages arrive at the destination airport, they are trucked from the planes to the destination stations where they are unloaded and sorted onto courier trucks for delivery commitments of 8, 10:30 and 4:30. Then we wait until the next batch of packages comes along. To a first approximation, we go out of business every day at 10:30 at are back in business about when most businesses are closing for the day. This is pretty much the same regardless of where the destination city lies. Sure these days something going from Boston to New York is more likely to go through our Newark hub than our Memphis one. And yes, we do save some money that way, but milage isn't as big a factor in cost as you might think and that savings gets balanced against the cost of operating another hub facility. > Economically, people will pay >more for "absolutely, positively has to be there overnight". The optimization >here is for time first, cost second. If the customer could wait, they >could choose a lower-priority delivery technique. The Post Office and UPS >optimize for cost first, delivery-time second. Different models. That was a lot of the motivation for our purchase of RPS which is now FedEx Ground (the one with the green logo). They have an excellent cost model and provide as much service as they can within that. >Given that FedEx also offers lower priority delivery, they probably aren't >filling each and every plane, each and every night with stuff. If they >were, there wouldn't be room to stuff the lower priority items in the corners. We certainly wish we could fill all the planes every night. You can all help with that by shipping everything by FedEx :-) One message also mentioned the company's compensation structure. I certainly can't speak to that of the pilots and couriers that were mentioned. It's true that FedEx doesn't pay developers as much as you would likely get in Silicon Valley or probably even the Research Triangle in North Carolina. But the company recognizes this and has been working to improve the situation. The company also has a strong history of treating its people well. I was quite ill about a year and a half ago. They told me to take whatever time was necessary and were very supportive during the whole thing. My director even told me of an employee that they had flown overseas for experimental treatments a few years earlier. Brian L. Stuart Chief Engineer, FedEx Services From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Jul 27 22:03:22 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives Message-ID: <010727230322.2a404542@trailing-edge.com> I've got 5 Fuji 8" SMD drives (M233x and similar) just inside the DC beltway (I-495) available immediately. You pick up only; I will not ship these (weight with power supplies is 35-45 lbs each). They all worked about three years ago, the last time I fired them up. Anyone hauling them away also gets my collection of Emulex SMD controllers and Fuji SMD manuals, and the rack mount slides/trays, and whatever else I feel like making you take. Also available are some 8" Pertec voice-coil floppy drives, in "parts only" condition. Manuals and some Pertec-specific test equipment are available too. Again, you-haul. Email if interested; first-come, first-served. Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 27 22:29:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: <200107280239.WAA14774@world.std.com> Message-ID: <002d01c11715$7d9d56e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yup! That was it, but was it from the original or from the sequel? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > "Number Five is alive" was a *line* from the movie > > Short Circuit > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jul 27 22:31:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives References: <010727230322.2a404542@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <003501c11715$c148a480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You mean Pertec, or PerSci? I've got a few PerSci drives, but I wasn't aware that anyone else made voice-coil actuated FDD's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 9:03 PM Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives > > I've got 5 Fuji 8" SMD drives (M233x and similar) just > inside the DC beltway (I-495) available immediately. You > pick up only; I will not ship these (weight with power supplies > is 35-45 lbs each). They all worked about three years ago, the > last time I fired them up. Anyone hauling them away also gets > my collection of Emulex SMD controllers and Fuji SMD manuals, and > the rack mount slides/trays, and whatever else I feel like making > you take. > > Also available are some 8" Pertec voice-coil floppy drives, in > "parts only" condition. Manuals and some Pertec-specific > test equipment are available too. Again, you-haul. > > Email if interested; first-come, first-served. > > Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Jul 27 22:54:20 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Seeking instructions for setting up a MAG MX17 monitor In-Reply-To: <20010728012406.99451.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010727205326.030aeb20@mail.zipcon.net> check out http://www.maginnovision.com there may be some info there, as well as a phone # for you to call :) At 06:24 PM 7/27/01 -0700, you wrote: >I got this 17" monitor from the local uni surplus recently. What caught >my attention (besides the $10 price) was that it had an HD-15 VGA connector, >a Macintosh 15-pin connector *and* BNCs, and a 2-line LCD display on the >front. I figured it was worth the risk since with no cable attached, I >couldn't test it there. It passed the crackle-hum test on the bench and >I brought it home. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 27 21:59:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <200107271734.NAA05420@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Bryan Pope wrote: > > You have YOUR stuff and I have MINE. You have your private space and I have > > mine. I have both the right and responsibility to protect my private space and > > my property. The courts have upheld the property owner's right to apply deadly > > force in protecting his/her own life/property. This presents an option to other > > forms of population/pest control that some might find attractive. Now all we > > need is a way to transmit deadly force over the internet. > > Have you read Neuromance by William Gibson? In the book they have > computer protection called "Black ICE" which can kill someone trying > to break into a computer over the network.. The novel was written > *long* before the internet we know today. But in this case it would be molten metal ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 27 22:01:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: US Tour In-Reply-To: <006f01c116c7$ae983c40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, John Allain wrote: > Actually you should spend 1/2 your time in Silicon Valley (see: > http://www.kce.com/junk.htm ). After that all else pales. Hans already gets all the good stuff when he visits the Silicon Valley, and he has my hospitality to thank for that :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jss at subatomix.com Fri Jul 27 23:00:33 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <002d01c11715$7d9d56e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010727225832.V8819-100000@localhost> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Yup! That was it, but was it from the original or from the sequel? Both. I don't recall those movies ever having anything to do with electrocuting people through telephones, though. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From dlw at trailingedge.com Fri Jul 27 23:23:23 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: A great day! Message-ID: <3B61F7EB.27924.3114129@localhost> This has been a great day. First the Atari Portfolio and the BeBox. Then I'm picking up a bunch of DEC stuff from Bill here on the list but the thing that got me really excited is a co-work just told me that he has a ton of HP2000 manuals and a friend who has HP2000 hardware he may be interested in parting with. I've wanted to work with some HP2000 stuff again since I left high school. All in all a good day. :-) ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Jul 27 22:23:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:09 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727101934.02f0dae0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > If you purposely violate an area asking you not to, than YOU, the > trespasser, have to take responsibility for whatever happens to you, > and whatever damage you do. So you go where you don't belong and you > get killed that is your own dumb fault, not the owner of the place > where you illegally entered. Totally agreed. This works both ways. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Fri Jul 27 23:29:39 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives In-Reply-To: <003501c11715$c148a480$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > You mean Pertec, or PerSci? I've got a few PerSci drives, but I wasn't aware > that anyone else made voice-coil actuated FDD's. Well, Epson of course, but somewhat later and somewhat smaller! - don > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 9:03 PM > Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives > > > > > > I've got 5 Fuji 8" SMD drives (M233x and similar) just > > inside the DC beltway (I-495) available immediately. You > > pick up only; I will not ship these (weight with power supplies > > is 35-45 lbs each). They all worked about three years ago, the > > last time I fired them up. Anyone hauling them away also gets > > my collection of Emulex SMD controllers and Fuji SMD manuals, and > > the rack mount slides/trays, and whatever else I feel like making > > you take. > > > > Also available are some 8" Pertec voice-coil floppy drives, in > > "parts only" condition. Manuals and some Pertec-specific > > test equipment are available too. Again, you-haul. > > > > Email if interested; first-come, first-served. > > > > Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) > > > > > > From rdd at smart.net Fri Jul 27 23:47:23 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: vaxstation video connector Message-ID: Something I forgot to ask... is the db-15 connector on the VAXstation 2000 the same pinout as that of the DECstation 3100? I'm just wondering if the same type of cable/monitor used with the DECstation can be used with the VAXstation. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Jul 27 23:31:47 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? Message-ID: <20010727233147.B19092@mrbill.net> Anybody know the font used in the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo, and on the old pdp logos and rack header plates? Thanks. bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jul 27 23:52:39 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <1055.608T2800T7356053optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jul 27, 1 12:15:56 pm" Message-ID: <200107280452.VAA29040@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > UNIX is for masochists. I'll never get along with that system, it's so > unfriendly, it was perceived as unfriendly even back in the seventies. And it > will never conquer the desktop. MacOS X. I'm a believer. First Unix that manages to avoid looking like Unix (except if you want it to). I've never seen an X windows manager that did any good other than making the Unix metaphor just pretty, not less complicated. OS X, on the other hand, does an excellent job at hiding it away from the casual user, but not making it ridiculously difficult for people to get their hands dirty if they want. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us! --------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jul 27 23:56:54 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? In-Reply-To: <20010727233147.B19092@mrbill.net> from Bill Bradford at "Jul 27, 1 11:31:47 pm" Message-ID: <200107280456.VAA08092@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Anybody know the font used in the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo, and > on the old pdp logos and rack header plates? The PDP plates and logos, dunno, but I'm pretty sure the digital logo was Futura or some analogue. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Gravity is a myth. The Earth just sucks. ----------------------------------- From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jul 28 00:05:56 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: <20010727110540.Y9013@mrbill.net> Message-ID: I run mine off a 110V/30A circuit plus a second 110V/30A circuit for the TU80 and Fujitsu Eagle disk drive. Clint On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know what the power requirements for an 11/750 (base > unit) are? I've got a chance to get two of them for cost of > freight... > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX > > From fernande at internet1.net Sat Jul 28 00:18:13 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: <007101c116e3$e3463160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3B624B15.E17D82FF@internet1.net> Dick, Even your dumpster? Haven't you ever gotten a computer out of a dumpster? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I don't know about you, but ALL my property, even the contents of my dumpster, > is worth more than the life, or, in fact, the combined lives, of all the thieves > in the world. They effectively relinquished their right to life by stealing > your right to property and privacy. From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jul 28 00:15:34 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727124455.02ef4a90@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: And they get the economy of scale... EVERY package from SJ goes to the same place, and EVERY package to DEN goes the same way. They don't worry about a single package that needs to go from SJ to DEN... Clint On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 02:04 PM 7/27/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? > > Because FedEx sends everything "in" to Memphis and "out" to its > destination. This was the basis for their entire concept. If you read the > story of how they got started the guy who started them realized the post > office (and most shippers) spent way too much time trying to optimally > route packages that could just as easily be routed by setting up one > routing system from a central point. Thus the routes were all fixed (i.e. > to go to San Jose from Memphis goes blip, blip and blip. etc.) and there > was no "loss" due to trying to compute n x m ideal routes. > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Jul 28 00:26:35 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: altair 8800 Message-ID: <200107280526.AAA18069@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Dumb question, but what might an Altair 8800 be worth these days? A friend is getting one from his father, who got it around the end of 1975. He asked me about sources for manuals and documentation, plus sources for boards to upgrade the system. Further questioning revealed that he wont get the unit until he travels back to visit the parents, and that the unit apparently has a 256 byte memory. This small scrap of information leads me to think this could be an original kit built system, with the original memory and probably hasnt been upgraded. If so, it could be a very dumb thing if someone who is clueless decided to upgrade this system, when he may actually have quite the collectors item in original condition on his hands... I'll pass along any information, or sources of documentation or scanned in manuals, that anyone can provide. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 28 00:35:04 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jul 27, 2001 09:52:39 PM Message-ID: <200107280535.f6S5Z4U16529@narnia.int.dittman.net> > MacOS X. I'm a believer. First Unix that manages to avoid looking like Unix > (except if you want it to). I've never seen an X windows manager that did > any good other than making the Unix metaphor just pretty, not less complicated. > OS X, on the other hand, does an excellent job at hiding it away from the > casual user, but not making it ridiculously difficult for people to get > their hands dirty if they want. You forgot A/UX. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Jul 28 00:30:34 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: A great day! In-Reply-To: "David Williams"'s message of "Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:23:23 -0500" References: <3B61F7EB.27924.3114129@localhost> Message-ID: <200107280530.f6S5UYP02924@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "David Williams" wrote: > that he has a ton of HP2000 manuals and a friend who has HP2000 > hardware he may be interested in parting with. I've wanted to work > with some HP2000 stuff again since I left high school. All in all a > good day. :-) You want to inquire about software too. The hardware is mostly HP2100-family stuff. The software is what makes it a time-shared BASIC system, and turning that up would be a Really Good Thing. -Frank McConnell From tsmurphy at addr8.addr.com Sat Jul 28 00:59:44 2001 From: tsmurphy at addr8.addr.com (Terry Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Mounting a SCSI Device in a BA-123 Message-ID: Has anybody ever mounted a SCSI device in a BA-123? 1. I tried to install a standard half-height 3.5" SCSI drive into a BA-123 system (MicroVAX II). Basically, I bought a little 3.5"->5.25" adapter, and then screwed the adaptor into the sliding base where an old RD-54 lived. I found the solution unsatisfactory; the adaptor's screw holes did not match up with the sliding base, and it generally feels fragile. Is there a better way? I am envisioning some sort of "cage" which has the form factor of a full-height 5.25" drive, with mount points for a 3.5" drive (or two). Does such a beast exist? 2. Has anybody ever installed a half-height internal CD-ROM (or tape drive) in a BA-123 system? This would be really sweet (sure beats an external one!), but would it mount nicely, and would it be possible to cover up the half which isn't being used with a nice faceplate? 3. Is there a decent internal SCSI cable which can be used in a BA-123? I only have a couple of boards in the system, so my SCSI controller is all the way in the front of the backplane (back of the system), far from the disks, and just barely reaches the disks. Is it possible to get one with some slack, and still have several disk connectors? Thanks, Terry From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 28 01:00:19 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107280535.f6S5Z4U16529@narnia.int.dittman.net>; from dittman@dittman.net on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 12:35:04AM -0500 References: <200107280535.f6S5Z4U16529@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20010728010019.G19092@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 12:35:04AM -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > You forgot A/UX. Forgetting about A/UX is a GOOD THING. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 28 01:07:23 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107280535.f6S5Z4U16529@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jul 27, 2001 09:52:39 PM Message-ID: >> MacOS X. I'm a believer. First Unix that manages to avoid looking like Unix >> (except if you want it to). I've never seen an X windows manager that did >> any good other than making the Unix metaphor just pretty, not less >>complicated. >> OS X, on the other hand, does an excellent job at hiding it away from the >> casual user, but not making it ridiculously difficult for people to get >> their hands dirty if they want. > >You forgot A/UX. That's where I first touched both UNIX and a Macintosh, trust me, it's best forgotten. Once that WIS Workstation was loaded with MacOS 7, it flew! Before that it was a dog, despite being based around a Mac IIfx. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From tsmurphy at addr8.addr.com Sat Jul 28 01:09:03 2001 From: tsmurphy at addr8.addr.com (Terry Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Importance of Grounded Power? Message-ID: I recently got an old AlphaServer 4/275, and it worked for a while, and then after I moved into another room, and it stopped working. I only have one or two grounded outlets in my apartment, so I had to hook it to a non-grounded one (via a surge protector, plugged in with a grounding adaptor). I'm not sure if it's coincidence, but that appeared to kill the AlphaServer (the power supply, to be precise). Is it technically possible for non-grounded power to be able to kill a system? In general, what type of hardware will require real grounded power to function? I have a whole slew of PC's, for example, using non-grounded power outlets without a hitch, so is this only going to be a problem for industrial equipment, like AlphaServers? Also does anyone know where I could get an AlphaServer 4/275 power supply for cheap? Thanks, Terry From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 28 00:53:25 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <007101c116e3$e3463160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: >I don't know about you, but ALL my property, even the contents of my dumpster, Do you have some kind of auto TROLL software? If your honest opinion is that some poor old mental case living on the street and fishing soda cans out the dumpster to buy some cheap wine deserves to be shot, then you have my pity. surely you have none of your own. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 28 00:57:31 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: US Tour In-Reply-To: <20010727214026.64540.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Message-ID: >there. I've seen an Apple ][ LCD screen for sale there ($200), I bought Are people still hot for those old IIc LCD screens? I am pretty sure I have recently run across a source for them around $60 or so. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 28 01:19:27 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <200107280526.AAA18069@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727231111.026c5eb0@209.185.79.193> At 12:26 AM 7/28/01 -0500, Lawerence wrote: >Dumb question, but what might an Altair 8800 be worth these days? Your right it is a dumb question. How much are you willing to pay for it? That is what its worth to you. On Ebay you could probably find someone willing to pay $1000 to $2000 for it. A really nice one went for about $1600. On this list, you probably wouldn't find anyone willing to pay more than $700 for it. Is it going to be useful or are you going to try and pay for a semester of the kids college with it? Will anyone care next year enough to buy it? Who knows? Remember when a PDP-8/E on Ebay would fetch three, even four thousand dollars? Guess what, they are lucky if they break $1000 now. So the question may not be "dumb" but it is certainly unanswerable in any authoritative way. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 28 01:21:48 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Mounting a SCSI Device in a BA-123 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Has anybody ever mounted a SCSI device in a BA-123? Of course, in my case in my PDP-11/73 (well the chassis originally housed my first working VAX). >1. I tried to install a standard half-height 3.5" SCSI drive into a >BA-123 system (MicroVAX II). Basically, I bought a little 3.5"->5.25" >adapter, and then screwed the adaptor into the sliding base where an old >RD-54 lived. I found the solution unsatisfactory; the adaptor's screw >holes did not match up with the sliding base, and it generally feels >fragile. Is there a better way? I am envisioning some sort of "cage" which >has the form factor of a full-height 5.25" drive, with mount points for a >3.5" drive (or two). Does such a beast exist? I'm using removable hard drive trays, the slot for the first one is screwed onto a RD5x sled, the second is only sitting on top loose because I've been to lazy to do it right. >2. Has anybody ever installed a half-height internal CD-ROM (or tape >drive) in a BA-123 system? This would be really sweet (sure beats an >external one!), but would it mount nicely, and would it be possible to >cover up the half which isn't being used with a nice faceplate? Again, of course. I've got a DEC RRD42 (I think that's the right one) and a TZ30 in there right now. I'd like to eventually replace the TZ30 with a TLZ06 4mm tape drive (this has been done with a lot of commercial PDP-11's). >3. Is there a decent internal SCSI cable which can be used in a BA-123? I >only have a couple of boards in the system, so my SCSI controller is all >the way in the front of the backplane (back of the system), far from the >disks, and just barely reaches the disks. Is it possible to get one with >some slack, and still have several disk connectors? Unfortunatly for this you're going to have to find the ribbon cable and connectors and make your own. If you look you might be able to find one that will just barely fit, and I believe that's what I've got in mine. However, making your own is the correct answer. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 28 01:28:54 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Mounting a SCSI Device in a BA-123 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727232154.024deeb0@209.185.79.193> At 10:59 PM 7/27/01 -0700, Terry wrote: >Has anybody ever mounted a SCSI device in a BA-123? Yes. >1. I tried to install a standard half-height 3.5" SCSI drive into a >BA-123 system (MicroVAX II). Basically, I bought a little 3.5"->5.25" >adapter, and then screwed the adaptor into the sliding base where an old >RD-54 lived. I found the solution unsatisfactory; the adaptor's screw >holes did not match up with the sliding base, and it generally feels >fragile. Is there a better way? I am envisioning some sort of "cage" which >has the form factor of a full-height 5.25" drive, with mount points for a >3.5" drive (or two). Does such a beast exist? I don't think a 3.5" one exists but the half height 5.25" ones do. (lets you mount two 5.25" disks on a sled. If I were going to do this (and I wouldn't, instead I'd put a dirt cheap full height SCSI drive in there ;-) then I'd get a scrap piece of aluminum, drill out a hole pattern to match the bottom of the 3.5" drive counter sink four holes and mount the drive, then drill and tap the aluminum at the spots needed on the sled. Then mount screws through the sled into the aluminum plate.Should be both sturdy and durable. If you use angle aluminum you could build a two (or three!) drive stack system. >2. Has anybody ever installed a half-height internal CD-ROM (or tape >drive) in a BA-123 system? This would be really sweet (sure beats an >external one!), but would it mount nicely, and would it be possible to >cover up the half which isn't being used with a nice faceplate? A couple of choices here, the easiest is to get one of the blank covers that DEC used and carefully mill out the opening where the drive would go. Alternatively there are full height to half height bezel adapters. Not common but I see them off and on at the surplus shops. >3. Is there a decent internal SCSI cable which can be used in a BA-123? I >only have a couple of boards in the system, so my SCSI controller is all >the way in the front of the backplane (back of the system), far from the >disks, and just barely reaches the disks. Is it possible to get one with >some slack, and still have several disk connectors? Not "retail" since they assume you are mounting the thing in a PC. However you can pretty easily build your own cable with a vice and some IDC connectors and length of ribbon cable. Alternatively you can run to a connector on the bulkhead and mount your SCSI drives in an external box. Or, as I've done, run the cable both to the bulk head and to the internal drive. Then the CD-ROM is external (I share it between VAXen since its a waste to have it attached if I don't need to mount CD media right then and there) --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 28 01:29:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: A/UX In-Reply-To: <200107280535.f6S5Z4U16529@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jul 27, 2001 09:52:39 PM Message-ID: >You forgot A/UX. Funny you should mention A/UX, I have my notebook full of original floppies sitting here by my desk waiting to have them all imaged and put on a CDR. Assuming all the floppies can be read, I plan to make a few extra CDRs. From dlw at trailingedge.com Sat Jul 28 01:36:55 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: A great day! In-Reply-To: <200107280530.f6S5UYP02924@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: "David Williams"'s message of "Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:23:23 -0500" Message-ID: <3B621737.9747.38B8371@localhost> On 27 Jul 2001, at 22:30, Frank McConnell wrote: > You want to inquire about software too. The hardware is mostly > HP2100-family stuff. The software is what makes it a time-shared > BASIC system, and turning that up would be a Really Good Thing. Oh I will. I'm told they "have all sorts of software" for them. We'll see. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jul 28 01:39:29 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: parts of the PDP-1 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727233800.026c8240@209.185.79.193> There was a story about the Computer Museum being donated a PDP-1 or a PDP-6 or some such and then being dismantled and sold off as parts in the gift shop. Now I've never heard the official story from someone who really knows, but this item on Ebay sounds like it might be the evidence. --Chuck From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 28 01:56:55 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: A/UX In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 27, 2001 11:29:24 PM Message-ID: <200107280656.f6S6utR16696@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >You forgot A/UX. > > Funny you should mention A/UX, I have my notebook full of original floppies > sitting here by my desk waiting to have them all imaged and put on a CDR. > Assuming all the floppies can be read, I plan to make a few extra CDRs. All my copies of A/UX came on CD. In fact, A/UX led me to buy my first CDROM drive. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 28 02:03:30 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 27, 2001 11:07:23 PM Message-ID: <200107280703.f6S73UM16708@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >You forgot A/UX. > > That's where I first touched both UNIX and a Macintosh, trust me, it's best > forgotten. Once that WIS Workstation was loaded with MacOS 7, it flew! > Before that it was a dog, despite being based around a Mac IIfx. I used to run A/UX on a II (later IIfx) and I liked it. I didn't find it all that much slower than running the MacOS straight. I can even remember playing Hellcats (I think that was the name; it was a WWII flight simulator) under A/UX and it was pretty smooth. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 28 02:04:56 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <20010728010019.G19092@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jul 28, 2001 01:00:19 AM Message-ID: <200107280704.f6S74ud16716@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > You forgot A/UX. > > Forgetting about A/UX is a GOOD THING. I don't agree. I think A/UX was pretty good for what it was. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 28 02:15:30 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: A/UX In-Reply-To: <200107280656.f6S6utR16696@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 27, 2001 11:29:24 PM Message-ID: >> >You forgot A/UX. >> >> Funny you should mention A/UX, I have my notebook full of original floppies >> sitting here by my desk waiting to have them all imaged and put on a CDR. >> Assuming all the floppies can be read, I plan to make a few extra CDRs. > >All my copies of A/UX came on CD. In fact, A/UX led me to buy my first >CDROM drive. And all I ever saw it on was tape. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 28 02:20:37 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107280703.f6S73UM16708@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 27, 2001 11:07:23 PM Message-ID: >I used to run A/UX on a II (later IIfx) and I liked it. I >didn't find it all that much slower than running the MacOS >straight. I can even remember playing Hellcats (I think >that was the name; it was a WWII flight simulator) under >A/UX and it was pretty smooth. Was the version you were running a C2 version? I was running A/UX 2.0/C2, it was painful. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 28 02:46:45 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: A/UX In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 28, 2001 12:15:30 AM Message-ID: <200107280746.f6S7kj716799@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> >You forgot A/UX. > >> > >> Funny you should mention A/UX, I have my notebook full of original floppies > >> sitting here by my desk waiting to have them all imaged and put on a CDR. > >> Assuming all the floppies can be read, I plan to make a few extra CDRs. > > > >All my copies of A/UX came on CD. In fact, A/UX led me to buy my first > >CDROM drive. > > And all I ever saw it on was tape. I remember it being available at first on CD and tape, but I can't remember if it was offered on floppy. I seem to remember that the V3.x release was CD-only, but that could be my memory acting up. I remember the V3.x beta I had was the first CDR I had seen in person. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 28 02:47:35 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Jul 28, 2001 12:20:37 AM Message-ID: <200107280747.f6S7lZo16807@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I used to run A/UX on a II (later IIfx) and I liked it. I > >didn't find it all that much slower than running the MacOS > >straight. I can even remember playing Hellcats (I think > >that was the name; it was a WWII flight simulator) under > >A/UX and it was pretty smooth. > > Was the version you were running a C2 version? I was running A/UX 2.0/C2, > it was painful. No, I ran the standard version. Also, things greatly improved with 3.0. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 28 03:06:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: A/UX In-Reply-To: <200107280656.f6S6utR16696@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 27, 2001 11:29:24 PM Message-ID: >> >You forgot A/UX. >> >> Funny you should mention A/UX, I have my notebook full of original floppies >> sitting here by my desk waiting to have them all imaged and put on a CDR. >> Assuming all the floppies can be read, I plan to make a few extra CDRs. > >All my copies of A/UX came on CD. In fact, A/UX led me to buy my first >CDROM drive. This one says version 1.1. Its part of my insane buying period, where anything remotely like it I bought and hoarded, but didn't have time to play with. Now my plan is buy VERY little, play a lot more. From jimdavis at gorge.net Sat Jul 28 04:16:54 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home References: <200107270435.AAA22031@conman.org> <3B60B1C8.4FCA90E4@woa.com.au> <5.0.2.1.0.20010727131133.0339b820@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <3B628306.69E31C4C@gorge.net> Don't you think it strange the bidding went from $50 to $600 in one bid? When $50 seemed to high? I smell a wumpus, or a rat! Jim Davis. Tony Eros wrote: > > Another option is to build a PDP11 from the things you paid too much for on > eBay. Take a look here: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1257207414 > > Someone just bid more than $500 for an RD52 with RSTS/E v9 on it. No > computer, mind you -- just the disk. > > Yikes! > > -- Tony From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com Sat Jul 28 06:37:16 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <200107280239.WAA14774@world.std.com> from Megan at "Jul 27, 2001 10:39:36 pm" Message-ID: <200107281137.f6SBbGo31724@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> > "Number Five is alive" was a *line* from the movie > > Short Circuit > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ And the pulse of high voltage electricity routed around the world was in Electric Dreams... (one of my favorite computer movies). Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com Sat Jul 28 06:40:24 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: 11/60 emulating PDP8 In-Reply-To: <20010727213415.T19092@mrbill.net> from Bill Bradford at "Jul 27, 2001 09:34:15 pm" Message-ID: <200107281140.f6SBeO931743@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> > On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 06:11:14PM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The only reason I've ever wanted an 11/60 is because long ago, I heard > > the story that its microcode engine was verified by a DEC engineer whose > > hobby was hacking the PDP-8 instruction set where it shouldn't belong. > > I heard he succeded in turning a PDP-11/60 in the Mill into the world's > > fastest PDP-8. Dunno what you could do about peripherals, though. > > -ethan Worked great for Reuters who used 8's for routing their news teletypes... but they wanted something faster. The word I heard is they were the ones that used the PDP8 emulating 11/60's. I guess normal PDP 11 io devices were used along with the emulation of the 8's trapping to the normal 11 instruction set to do the i/o. Perhaps disk container files were used for the 8 files and DZ or DH11 lines were set up to emulate the KL8's... bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From rdd at smart.net Sat Jul 28 07:03:24 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: parts of the PDP-1 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010727233800.026c8240@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > There was a story about the Computer Museum being donated a PDP-1 or a > PDP-6 or some such and then being dismantled and sold off as parts in the > gift shop. Now I've never heard the official story from someone who really > knows, but this item on Ebay sounds like it might be the evidence. Years ago, I read about this sort of thing taking place. From what I've read, the Computer Museum in Boston appears to be more interested in drawing crowds than in preserving equipment and presenting accurate information. However, what else can one expect from a tool of Microsoft and other large businesses? Think of it as the tax-free division of their marketing departments. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com Sat Jul 28 06:49:33 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: <20010727224303.85962.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 27, 2001 03:43:03 pm" Message-ID: <200107281149.f6SBnYi31842@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> > > --- Will Jennings wrote: > > Uhhhh, my 11/750 has a standard normal-looking 3 prong standard-outlet > > fitting plug.. It never has had a 30A twist-n-lock connector in all the time > > I've owned it... Is this a bad thing? > > Dunno... both of mine have a power cable that is identical to what we had > on a standard bottom-of-the-rack power distribution box - at least 1/2" > diameter, capped with a twist-n-lock. The 11/730, for example, has an IEC > connector in the back of the PSU, but the 42" cabinet has the same power > cable as the 11/750 coming out the back. > > Maybe we just ordered ours with the machine-room power option. Perhaps > there was an "office power" cable option. You can safely pull 15A through > a normal plug (with an appropriately gauged cable attached, of course). By > the time you get to 20A, in North America, one blade rotates 90 degrees to > keep you from sticking it into a 15A outlet (got one of those on the end > of my PDP-11/24). You can buy 20A wall sockets that will fit 15A and 20A > plugs. They have one vertical hole and one T-shaped hole to accomodate either > kind of plug. 30A needs something like the twist-n-lock. > > -ethan > IIRC 11750's only came with the twist lock in the cabinet. Of course you could yank that off and rewire it in minutes. I don't think the 11/750 drew 30 amps -- I think it was closer to 20 but DEC always used to go up a bit. I had stuff with 20 amp 115 that drew a lot less than that in real life. I think the engineers used to take the maximum and max surge at power up and add a reasonably large caution window for user added loads plugged in to the power controllers. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com Sat Jul 28 06:51:52 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: <20010727222202.68895.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 27, 2001 03:22:02 pm" Message-ID: <200107281151.f6SBpqM31882@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> > Someone (Cadminton?) made a 1Mb 11/730 and 11/750 memory board with 256Kx1 > chips on it; if you could get 8 of those, you'd cut your total power > consumption by an amp or two. I think I only have one. All the rest > is real DEC MS750CA (I think) memory - two square feet of 4164s. > > -ethan > > And before that a ton of 4116's... MS750 was the same as MK11 memory for the 11/70. (Actually, I thought the MK was originally designed for the 11/74). Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com Sat Jul 28 06:56:07 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: from Gene Buckle at "Jul 27, 2001 02:26:27 pm" Message-ID: <200107281156.f6SBu7S31960@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> > > On 27 Jul 2001 12:15:56 +0100, "Iggy Drougge" wrote: > > > UNIX is for masochists. > > > > Whip me, beat me, fsck me! > > > ....make me use BLISS!!! > > > g. If you're using bliss it ain't Unix. --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 28 04:20:34 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Apple ][ boards -- what have I found?" (Jul 27, 23:15) References: Message-ID: <10107281020.ZM3257@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 27, 23:15, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Jul 26, 18:38, Tony Duell wrote: > > > There seems to be a 6522 (on the BBC side) with the ports connected to > > > the ports of the 8255. That seems to be on the Z80 bus. > > > > I've not looked at one for a while, but that makes more sense. Presumably > > the 6522 is mapped into the Beeb's 1MHz bus space. > > Don't you mean _Tube_ address space ? :-) Er, yes, that was a typo, induced by trying to type 15 minutes of email in a 5-minute slot :-) In fact, part of the reason the Torch board causes Beebs to misbehave if Torch's own code doesn't grab it and hide it, is that the 6522 is seen by Acorn's Tube code (in the DNFS ROM) and Acorn's code will try to initialise it (and gets it wrong, of course). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Jul 28 04:27:23 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: Bill Bradford "Re: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home" (Jul 28, 1:00) References: <200107280535.f6S5Z4U16529@narnia.int.dittman.net> <20010728010019.G19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <10107281027.ZM3262@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 28, 1:00, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 12:35:04AM -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > > You forgot A/UX. > > Forgetting about A/UX is a GOOD THING. :-) Agreed! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com Sat Jul 28 07:03:12 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jul 27, 2001 05:24:08 pm" Message-ID: <200107281203.f6SC3C431987@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> R. D. Davis wrote: > I've got a VAXstation 2000 with SCSI; I think it's running ULTRIX. Nice... wish I had a copy of Ultrix for the VAXstaton 3100 M38 here. It's got 32mb of memory and a DEC DSP3105 (RZ27? 1.05gb) as the boot disk and 100mb as a second disk. It's got dual SCSI busses and the 8 plane color graphics option which I'm driving a DEC mono monitor. (VR265?). > Perhaps I should order the hobbyist VMS distribution, put a different > hard drive in the system, attach a CD-ROM to it (will any SCSI CD-ROM > drive work?), and install VMS. Could I then do a backup to SCSI tape > over DECnet? Is there much of an advantage to upgrading to OpenVMS > from VAX/VMS 5.5? The hobbyist version has a ton of layered products and the security on 7.2 seems pretty good compared with 5.5. It is a lot bigger and slower than 11/780's running 3.6 -- I can tell you. But I've got DECnet, TCP/IP and all the languages getting loaded right now. I've also got another VAXstation 3100 M38 with 16mb I'd be looking to part with soon -- but the ethernet switch between thick and thin net is cracked and half missing. If anyone's interested in it let me know... Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat Jul 28 07:10:50 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives Message-ID: <010728081050.2a404542@trailing-edge.com> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > You mean Pertec, or PerSci? I've got a few PerSci drives, but I wasn't aware > that anyone else made voice-coil actuated FDD's. Yes, I really meant PerSci. If nobody here takes the drives, they'll go to a local metalworking enthusiast who melts down the castings... Tim. From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com Sat Jul 28 07:16:48 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Ethernet -- thicknet and thinnet before 10BaseT In-Reply-To: <10107270817.ZM2146@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from Pete Turnbull at "Jul 27, 2001 07:17:08 am" Message-ID: <200107281216.f6SCGmT32122@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> > > Now 10/100 switches really screw with it. > > Those switches are just bridges, which have been around for decades (albeit > with fewer ports). > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York But bridges originally just repeat... -- maybe they do the old 1987 spanning tree loop avoidance... -- maybe they learn and eventually send just the traffic for the remote end But in the beginning they were dumb repeaters. And the network was a dumb wire... Coax. How dumb can it get. Now everything's full duplex and troubleshooting the network involves having to set up special spanning ports where the old advantage to ethernet was any port could be a network monitorring/troubleshooting port seeing all the network traffic. My old laptop was great and could do most of what the Network General sniffer would do... Now we've got to have a much more involved method of troubleshooting and we're left hoping Cisco and the other vendors have got the OS's and roms right in the network. I'm wondering how long it is before DECnet and Appletalk fail to work on some modern networks because of the smart switches screwing up. Nowadays it almost seems they expect everything to be all TCP/IP. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com Sat Jul 28 07:20:17 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <10107281027.ZM3262@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from Pete Turnbull at "Jul 28, 2001 09:27:23 am" Message-ID: <200107281220.f6SCKHi32152@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> > On Jul 28, 1:00, Bill Bradford wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 12:35:04AM -0500, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > You forgot A/UX. > > > > Forgetting about A/UX is a GOOD THING. > > :-) Agreed! > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > > Aw, come on... for a SysV varient it was/is pretty cool... Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 28 08:00:01 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: <009701c11706$358473c0$0b9d3004@mshome.net> Message-ID: I ship probably 15-20 packages a week, and recieve probably 6 a week - by UPS - and have never seen a misroute like this except one package that the shipping party had left an old sticker ont he box on one side and the sticker to me on the other and until someone manually pulled the package (and blacked out the old sticker/barcode)it bounced between Pallatine IL and Lexington Ky. Needless to say UPS refunded the shipper's payment even though it was the shipper's fault (it was 2 day air and took 6 days with all the bouncing). I just recieved one from Maine and it went to NY, then Louisville KY, then Bowling Green KY, then to me. Took 2 days regular UPS ground. One I sent to Hawaii took 3 days but of course had to go air shipment - USPS "priority" for a similar item to the same island took 8 days. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of GT -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:40 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> Here is my package's route from Amazon by UPS. -> -> Thank you UPS! -> -> Status: DELIVERY -> Shipment Date: Jun 27, 2001 -> Location/Signee: GUARD -> Destination: CHERRY HILL , NJ , US -> -> Date Time Location Service Area Checkpoint Details -> -> ----------------------------------------------------------------- -> ----------- -> ---- -> -> Jul 11, 2001 11:11:00 AM LAWNSIDE-PENNSAUKEN , NJ , US DELIVERY -> Jul 10, 2001 12:01:00 PM MEADOWLANDS , NJ , US UNLOAD SCAN -> Jul 10, 2001 03:10:00 AM MEADOWLANDS , NJ , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jul 05, 2001 09:14:00 PM LENEXA , KS , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jul 05, 2001 08:35:37 PM LENEXA , KS , US LOCATION SCAN -> Jul 04, 2001 02:40:00 AM DENVER , CO , US UNLOAD SCAN -> Jul 04, 2001 12:47:00 AM DENVER , CO , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jul 02, 2001 11:49:00 AM CACH , IL , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jul 02, 2001 12:38:00 AM CACH , IL , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 29, 2001 03:47:00 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 29, 2001 03:02:46 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US LOCATION SCAN -> Jun 29, 2001 01:32:00 AM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US UNLOAD SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 10:35:00 PM WILLOW GROVE , PA , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 09:44:00 PM PHILA AIR HUB , PA , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 07:58:00 PM PHILA AIR HUB , PA , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 05:23:00 PM BURTONSVILLE , MD , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 03:33:00 PM BURTONSVILLE , MD , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 11:55:00 AM STAUNTON , VA , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 10:50:00 AM STAUNTON , VA , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 06:12:00 AM CHARLESTON , WV , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 05:51:00 AM CHARLESTON , WV , US ARRIVAL SCAN -> Jun 28, 2001 01:20:00 AM LEXINGTON , KY , US DEPARTURE SCAN -> Jun 27, 2001 03:32:51 PM LEXINGTON , KY , US ORIGIN SCAN -> Jun 27, 2001 11:24:53 AM LEXINGTON , KY , US PICKUP -> MANIFEST RECEIVED -> -> -> -> -> ----- Original Message ----- -> From: "Russ Blakeman" -> To: -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:04 PM -> Subject: RE: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> > Why did it go from Alaska to Tennesse to California? Someone -> else picks up -> > the tab when these things are routed the Delta Airlines way. I -> mean Delta -> in -> > that my mom-in-law got a ticket from Phoenix to Louisville - went from -> > Phoenix to LAX (Los Angeles) to Miami, to Louisville. Southwest ran the -> same -> > time, was $35 cheaper and went from Phoenix to DFW (Dallas) to -> Lousiville - -> > 4 hours less flying too and just the one stop in DFW of 12 -> mins as opposed -> > to switching planes in LAX, waiting 35 mins, then to Miami, -> switching with -> a -> > 1 hour wait, and off to Louisville. -> > -> > -> -----Original Message----- -> > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> > -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 1:25 PM -> > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> > -> Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> > -> -> > -> -> > -> Recently some discussion of international shipping was going on. -> > -> Here is my -> > -> shipping track from a Fedex package I just received from -> Thailand. Flat -> > -> rate $15 service. -> > -> -> > -> Delivered SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 09:01 -> > -> On FedEx vehicle for delivery SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:29 -> > -> Arrived at FedEx Destination Location SANTA ANA CA 07/27/2001 08:13 -> > -> Arrived at Sort Facility LOS ANGELES CA 07/27/2001 05:32 -> > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:20 -> > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility MEMPHIS TN 07/27/2001 02:14 -> > -> Package status ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 15:49 -> > -> Arrived at FedEx Ramp ANCHORAGE AK 07/26/2001 13:31 -> > -> Left FedEx Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:53 -> > -> Arrived at Sort Facility SUBIC BAY FREEPORT PH 07/26/2001 01:45 -> > -> Left FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 20:38 -> > -> Arrived at FedEx Ramp BANGKOK TH 07/25/2001 19:19 -> > -> -> > -> -> > -> > -> -> -> NetZero Platinum -> No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access -> Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! -> http://www.netzero.net From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 28 08:08:06 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of -> blstuart@bellsouth.net -> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 9:42 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> has been working to improve the situation. The company also has -> a strong history of treating its people well. Now dealing with both my FedEx and UPS drivers (I have a regular driver for each except when they are out) they both are dedicated to their companies as their companies both treat each very well - how could either company survive if they didn't since much of the sucess of getting things from A to B is having the skills and attitude to accomplish the job. If they treat the handlers, sorters, drivers, pilots and such like crap then the turn over is high and you have a bunch of newbies on staff that screw things up. I hated RPS and told shippers that if they shipped by RPS that they would get to deal witha pissed off customer and the possibility of damage or loss. Of 10 packages sent by RPS, 8 were either lost of damages and the other 2 took forever to arrive. I occasionally get items by DHL courier and even they have a better record than that - at least the items get to me, undamaged and in a reasonable time - just not as cheaply or quickly as FedEx or UPS. I generally try not to receive or ship by USPS anymore due to way higher costs and sloppy handling. If I note that a package (no matter what) needs a signature on delivery, UPS and Fedex are glad to oblige whereas USPS wants it extra $$$ (over the already too high cost) to add this and more for a receipt of it. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Jul 28 08:16:10 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Importance of Grounded Power? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know that it would necessarily kill the internal power supply but I do know of higher-dollar surge equipment that won't pass power if the full 3 prong circuit isn't present. Most will pass the current but not provide surge protection without the ground, some will show a mis-wire light but a few (some APC's) will shutdown if the wiring is wrong or incomplete. I have a little $6 plug in tester I bought at Walmart that tells me if the 3 prong outlet is correct and it's been a good tool to use here in my 1952 house as well as on customer's sites. Many upgrade jobs include changeout of the outlet units but they have no wire for the 3rd prong. My whole shop is 3 wire as I ripped all of the basement wiring out and put new everything in, as is my kitchen, but the rest of the house is 2 wire with 3 prong outlets until I rip the old drywall down and remodel. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Terry Murphy -> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:09 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Importance of Grounded Power? -> -> -> -> I recently got an old AlphaServer 4/275, and it worked for a while, and -> then after I moved into another room, and it stopped working. I only have -> one or two grounded outlets in my apartment, so I had to hook it to a -> non-grounded one (via a surge protector, plugged in with a grounding -> adaptor). I'm not sure if it's coincidence, but that appeared to kill the -> AlphaServer (the power supply, to be precise). Is it technically possible -> for non-grounded power to be able to kill a system? In general, what -> type of hardware will require real grounded power to function? I have a -> whole slew of PC's, for example, using non-grounded power outlets without -> a hitch, so is this only going to be a problem for industrial equipment, -> like AlphaServers? -> -> Also does anyone know where I could get an AlphaServer 4/275 power supply -> for cheap? -> -> Thanks, -> Terry -> -> From rdd at smart.net Sat Jul 28 08:35:16 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: <200107281203.f6SC3C431987@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > Nice... wish I had a copy of Ultrix for the VAXstaton 3100 M38 here. > It's got 32mb of memory and a DEC DSP3105 (RZ27? 1.05gb) as the boot > disk and 100mb as a second disk. It's got dual SCSI busses and the > 8 plane color graphics option which I'm driving a DEC mono monitor. > (VR265?). Yes, I know the feeling. I've also got a a DECstation with, IIRC, 32MB of RAM and SCSI, but the former owner decided to delete most of the Ultrix files, so the system is unuseable and in need of an Ultrix distribution for DECstations. Note that I've not used my VAXstation yet, to tell if the Ultrix on it survived shipping, as it doesn't appear to work with the DECstation monitor cable. :-( Hopefully this weekend I'll get a chance to attach a serial cable to it and attach it to a terminal. If it's still bootable, how can I clone Ultrix for you? I have no tape drive attached to this MicroVAX, and don't have a TK50Z. I could attempt to copy it over a network to another UNIX box and then onto an 8mm or 4mm tape, if that would be of any use. If I can find a TK50Z, how can I make a bootable tape for you to use? > The hobbyist version has a ton of layered products and the security > on 7.2 seems pretty good compared with 5.5. It is a lot bigger and > slower than 11/780's running 3.6 -- I can tell you. > But I've got DECnet, TCP/IP and all the languages getting loaded right > now. Having all that installed, and better security, sounds useful. > I've also got another VAXstation 3100 M38 with 16mb I'd be looking > to part with soon -- but the ethernet switch between thick and thin net > is cracked and half missing. > > If anyone's interested in it let me know... I'm interested! -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sat Jul 28 08:26:59 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: ThinNet Hub In-Reply-To: <20010726172923.Y1408@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> "from Shawn T. Rutledge at Jul 26, 2001 05:29:24 pm" Message-ID: <200107281326.JAA36464@server1.cs.scranton.edu> According to Shawn T. Rutledge: > On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:03:02PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > It's better to think of the 'hub' as being distributed in the 10base2 > > transceivers (the modules that connect between the AUI port and the > > Well I have seen hubs to which coax is connected. Some were probably > arcnet, but weren't coax hubs ever used for thinnet? Maybe to boost > the signal and get past the length limitation, or maybe to isolate > "problem" branches so they don't interfere with other branches? > Actually, they are not hubs, they are ethernet repeaters. I have a DEC one litting in the lab right now, but I can't imagine what I might do with it. The electricity it would use in a year is more than enough to pay for a 100baseT switch. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Jul 28 08:39:41 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:10 2005 Subject: Importance of Grounded Power? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513EF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I recently got an old AlphaServer 4/275, and it worked for a while, and > then after I moved into another room, and it stopped working. I only have > one or two grounded outlets in my apartment, so I had to hook it to a > non-grounded one (via a surge protector, plugged in with a grounding > adaptor). The only stuff I run that way would be PCs... for the Prime, I made a custom 50-foot 30-amp grounded extension cord, and run it all the way from the grounded outlet in the basement upstairs to where the computer is. regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Jul 28 08:40:52 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: A great day! Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513F0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On 27 Jul 2001, at 22:30, Frank McConnell wrote: > > You want to inquire about software too. The hardware is mostly > > HP2100-family stuff. The software is what makes it a time-shared > > BASIC system, and turning that up would be a Really Good Thing. > > Oh I will. I'm told they "have all sorts of software" for them. We'll > see. Many of us are looking forward to a copy of 2000 Access... -dq From vance at ikickass.org Sat Jul 28 08:56:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <200107280239.WAA14774@world.std.com> Message-ID: I don't believe he's talking about "Short Circuit" Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Megan wrote: > "Number Five is alive" was a *line* from the movie > > Short Circuit > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 28 09:01:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: <20010727225832.V8819-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <001101c1176d$d03828a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I remember the movie with the phone electrocution thing from back in the late '50's, when I was in my early teens, and the Short-Circuit series from the '80's when my kids were not yet in their teens. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:00 PM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Yup! That was it, but was it from the original or from the sequel? > > Both. I don't recall those movies ever having anything to do with > electrocuting people through telephones, though. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 28 09:06:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: <007101c116e3$e3463160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3B624B15.E17D82FF@internet1.net> Message-ID: <002b01c1176e$9188fd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No, though I've put a few in there. I have gotten some pretty good bridge controllers, etc, from the dumpster's overflow. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:18 PM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > Dick, > > Even your dumpster? Haven't you ever gotten a computer out of a > dumpster? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > I don't know about you, but ALL my property, even the contents of my dumpster, > > is worth more than the life, or, in fact, the combined lives, of all the thieves > > in the world. They effectively relinquished their right to life by stealing > > your right to property and privacy. > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 28 09:05:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives References: Message-ID: <002a01c1176e$91676b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Gee! How much smaller, and how much later? The PerSci drives accepted step rates in the low hundreds of microcseconds. For a long seek they actually would traverse the diskette at average rates nearly that fast. How'd the Epson drives do? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:29 PM Subject: Re: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives > > > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > You mean Pertec, or PerSci? I've got a few PerSci drives, but I wasn't aware > > that anyone else made voice-coil actuated FDD's. > > Well, Epson of course, but somewhat later and somewhat smaller! > > - don > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 9:03 PM > > Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives > > > > > > > > > > I've got 5 Fuji 8" SMD drives (M233x and similar) just > > > inside the DC beltway (I-495) available immediately. You > > > pick up only; I will not ship these (weight with power supplies > > > is 35-45 lbs each). They all worked about three years ago, the > > > last time I fired them up. Anyone hauling them away also gets > > > my collection of Emulex SMD controllers and Fuji SMD manuals, and > > > the rack mount slides/trays, and whatever else I feel like making > > > you take. > > > > > > Also available are some 8" Pertec voice-coil floppy drives, in > > > "parts only" condition. Manuals and some Pertec-specific > > > test equipment are available too. Again, you-haul. > > > > > > Email if interested; first-come, first-served. > > > > > > Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 28 09:09:19 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: altair 8800 References: <200107280526.AAA18069@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <003501c1176e$e52604c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> To put a reasonable price on the thing, you should look on eBay under "completed items" and see what they've brought in the past few months. EBay prices tend to go to the high side, but they're what folks are willing to pay, plus shipping. There's no real reason why you shouldn't get what the eBay market brings in. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:26 PM Subject: altair 8800 > Dumb question, but what might an Altair 8800 be worth these days? > > A friend is getting one from his father, who got it around the end of > 1975. He asked me about sources for manuals and documentation, plus > sources for boards to upgrade the system. Further questioning revealed > that he wont get the unit until he travels back to visit the parents, > and that the unit apparently has a 256 byte memory. > > This small scrap of information leads me to think this could be > an original kit built system, with the original memory and probably > hasnt been upgraded. If so, it could be a very dumb thing if someone > who is clueless decided to upgrade this system, when he may actually > have quite the collectors item in original condition on his hands... > > I'll pass along any information, or sources of documentation or scanned > in manuals, that anyone can provide. > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > > From west at tseinc.com Sat Jul 28 21:11:57 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: A great day! 2000 Access References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513F0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <011201c117d3$d8caeb40$0101a8c0@jay> oh? people are looking for a copy of 2000 Access? I have two copies on mag tape. One tape is 2000 Access for the 2100A/S and the other is for the 21MX family. I didn't know people were still searching for that, I thought everyone knew I had copies of it. So if people need a copy of the tape, just let me know. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Quebbeman To: Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:40 AM Subject: RE: A great day! > Many of us are looking forward to a copy of 2000 Access... > > -dq > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Jul 28 09:14:47 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Pocket protectors Was: RE: Fun "events" for VCF Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513F2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Douglas Quebbeman said: > > > > > > Vintage geek clothing contest. > > > > heh. the winner should be someone who manages to find a way > > to wear both a t-sheet and a pocket protector... > > And how many here have wore a pocket protector on a regular > basis in the past? I used to collect them (still have them), but never used them... But from time to time, I'd meet someone who should... especially when fountain pens were a bit more common than today. -dq From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Jul 28 09:50:18 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: Message-ID: <3B62D12A.1413F57C@tinyworld.co.uk> Mike Ford wrote: > > >I don't know about you, but ALL my property, even the contents of > >my dumpster, > > Do you have some kind of auto TROLL software? Use your kill file, Mike. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 28 09:58:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Brooklyn bridge - LapLink - Fast lynx was Re: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <26.18c752b9.2891ab91@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010728103312.00a549f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 01:21 PM 7/26/01 -0400, Mike wrote: > > Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive? > >And joe suggested: > > > How about LapLink or FastLynx? I've used both of them A LOT and they > > work great for situations like this. > >Another suggestion would be Brooklyn Bridge. You can transfer files using >a cable connecting the two parallel ports together. Also will work with the >serial ports So will LapLink and Fast lynx. I found FastLynx to be faster so I use it almost exclusively now. It will automaticly try ALL of the ports including all of the serial, parallel and the networking ports and detect any that are connected to another machine that's running FastLynx. Setup is super fast and easy. FWIW I helped replace almost 14,000 computers at MMC in Orlando and we used LapLink and Fastlynx to transfer the software from the old PC to the new ones so I've had LOTS of experience with them. As fas as I'm concerned these programs are indepensible for use when tinkering with old computers that run MS-DOS. With these programs I don't have to open one up, add or change drives or modify or add other hardware in order to transfer files to and from it. Joe From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 28 10:07:31 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives References: <010728081050.2a404542@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <004e01c11777$061570a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I thought so. The Pertec drives were more plastic than most other drives of their time. Like Remex, they were considered lower quality, though the Remex drives were quite a bit better than the Pertec. I think the plastic alloys were more stabile in the Remex drives, hence they stayed aligned and functional a bit better than did the Pertec models. Those PerSci drives bring about $9 in scrap value if you sufficiently dismantle them. That's about a buck more than the older Shugart drives, and two bucks or so more than the newer, lighter 8" full-size drives of the late '80's. They all have significant scrap value as "high-quality" aluminum. If you dismantle them, the stuff you take off the castings, heads, motors, screws, solenoids, sensors, etc, becomes spare parts/hardware, while the casting, which takes up most of the space gets recycled in a constructive way. It's not a way to make money, but it reduces waste. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > You mean Pertec, or PerSci? I've got a few PerSci drives, but I wasn't aware > > that anyone else made voice-coil actuated FDD's. > > Yes, I really meant PerSci. > > If nobody here takes the drives, they'll go to a local metalworking > enthusiast who melts down the castings... > > Tim. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jul 28 10:02:46 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: OT: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010728110120.00a4c100@mailhost.intellistar.net> For any of you that wanted to know what's it's like to live in Florida! >FLORIDA > >For anyone who has ever lived or visited Florida, this is HILARIOUS ! > >Subject: : Moving to Florida > >April 30th: >Florida is fantastic! Just got here and love it already. Now this is a >state that knows how to live!! Beautiful sunny days and warm balmy >evenings. What a place! Watched the sunset from a park lying on a >blanket. It was beautiful. I've finally found my home. I love it here. > >May 14th: >Really heating up. Got to 89 today. Not a problem, I live in an >air-conditioned home and drive an air-conditioned car. What a pleasure to >see the sun every day like this. I'm turning into a real sun worshipper. > >June 5th: >Had the backyard landscaped with tropical plants today. Lots of palms and >rocks. What a breeze to maintain. No more mowing for me. NO MORE >SHOVELING SNOW EITHER! Another scorcher today, but I love it here. > >July 1st: >The temperature hasn't been below 90 all week, not even at night. Where are >those ocean breezes we heard about, still seems hot. Getting used to it >will take a while, I guess. I sure miss my LP collection, though. I'll >have to remember not to leave anything made out of plastic in my car. Got >one of those fuzzy steering wheel covers, cheaper than the burn ointment for >my hands. I always wondered what burnt flesh smelled like. > >July 15th: >Fell asleep by the pool. (Got 3rd degree burns over 60% of my body.) Missed >two days of work, what a dumb thing to do. I learned my lesson though: got >to respect the ol' sun in a climate like this. > >July 20th: >I miss our cat, Tabby. He snuck into the car when I left this morning. By >the time I got out to the hot car for lunch, he'd swollen up to the size of >a shopping bag and just as I opened the door he exploded all over $2,000 >worth of leather upholstery. I told the kids he ran away. The car now >smells like Kibbles and poop. No more pets in this heat! > >July 25th: >Ocean breezes, my ass. Hot is hot!! The home air conditioner is on the >fritz and AC repairman charged $200 just to drive by and tell me he needed >to order parts. Only hope for a break in the heat would be a hurricane. > >July 30th: >Been sleeping outside by the pool for three nights now. Swatting the swamp >mosquitoes that are as big as B-52's. $1,500 in darn house payments and we >can't even go inside. Why did I ever come here? > >Aug 4th: >100 degrees. Finally got the air conditioner fixed today. It cost $500 and >gets the temperature down to about 90. The electric bill is almost as much >as the house payment. And two old lady drivers almost ran me off the road. >I hate this state. > >Aug 8th: >If another wise jerk cracks, "Hot enough for you today?" I'm going to tear >his head off. Damn heat! By the time I get to work, the radiator is >boiling over, my clothes are soaking wet, and I smell like roasted >Garfield!! > >Aug 10th: >The weather report might as well be a damn recording: Hot and sunny. It's >been too hot for two #@*& months and the weatherman says it might really >warm up next week. And whoever came up with the statement, "it may be hot, >but at least you don't have to shovel it" should die from heat exhaustion. >Doesn't it ever rain in this Godforsaken place?? > >Aug 14th: >Welcome to Hell!!! Temperature got to 102 today. Forgot to crack the >window and blew the windshield out of the Lincoln. The installer came to >fix it and said, "Hot enough for you today?". My wife had to spend the >$1,500 house payment to bail me out of jail. > >Aug 30th: >Worst day of the summer. I'm not leaving the house. The monsoon rains >finally came and all they did is to make it muggier than hell and drove the >damned roaches out of the ground. I wasn't aware they could fly! The >Lincoln is now floating somewhere in the Caribbean with its new $500 >windshield. That does it, we're moving back to New York >where all you have to worry about is getting mugged. > >I hope this state breaks in half and floats to Cuba. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 28 10:12:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: Message-ID: <005c01c11777$b07ccac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The reference to "Number Five" that I made was, indeed, to the Short Circuit movie(s) that my kids watched when they were quite young. The movie I remembered with the bad guy operating a big knife switch to electrocute someone on the "other" end of the phone connection was an after-school TV serial I used to watch back in the mid-'50's. It's still not quite sending "lethal force" to nail a hacker over the internet, but you get the picture ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Master of all that Sucks" To: Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 7:56 AM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > > I don't believe he's talking about "Short Circuit" > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Megan wrote: > > > "Number Five is alive" was a *line* from the movie > > > > Short Circuit > > > > Megan Gentry > > Former RT-11 Developer > > From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Jul 28 10:09:40 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? References: <20010727233147.B19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B62D5B4.B23D9DC7@tinyworld.co.uk> Bill Bradford wrote: > > Anybody know the font used in the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo This has changed over time. The old logo, with square dot on the "i" and flat-topped "t", looked very much like Helvetica. It certainly isn't Univers, Franklin Gothic or Futura (all ruled out by the "a"). The newer logo (on my OpenVMS 6.1 manuals) has a round dot on the "i" and a diagonal top to the "t". I can't place this at the moment. > and on the old pdp logos and rack header plates? I assume you're not talking about the PDP-1 logo, but about the very rounded logos of the PDP-8, -11, -12, etc. The roundness and even stroke widths place it closer to Avant Garde than anything else in my catalogues, though there is clearly some customisation of the digits and the letter "k" (I'm looking at a nice large scan of the cover of the PDP-11 Handbook from simulogics.com). From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jul 28 10:22:28 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107280535.f6S5Z4U16529@narnia.int.dittman.net> from Eric Dittman at "Jul 28, 1 00:35:04 am" Message-ID: <200107281522.IAA09458@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > OS X, on the other hand, does an excellent job at hiding it away from the > > casual user, but not making it ridiculously difficult for people to get > > their hands dirty if they want. > > You forgot A/UX. Intentionally :-P And of course there was ANS AIX, but I like AIX. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The best of all: God is with us. -- John Wesley ---------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Jul 28 10:36:13 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <003501c1176e$e52604c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > Dumb question, but what might an Altair 8800 be worth these days? It has been a long time since anyone offered me one. That one was $1, and I turned it down, so that it could go to somebody who wanted it more. They probably sell for more, at least on e-bay. > > A friend is getting one from his father, . . . therefore in the $1 range > > that he wont get the unit until he travels back to visit the parents, Ah HA! major strings attached. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat Jul 28 10:37:38 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives Message-ID: <010728113738.2a40465c@trailing-edge.com> >Those PerSci drives bring about $9 in scrap value if you sufficiently dismantle >them. That's about a buck more than the older Shugart drives, and two bucks or >so more than the newer, lighter 8" full-size drives of the late '80's. They all >have significant scrap value as "high-quality" aluminum. > >If you dismantle them, the stuff you take off the castings, heads, motors, >screws, solenoids, sensors, etc, becomes spare parts/hardware, while the >casting, which takes up most of the space gets recycled in a constructive way. >It's not a way to make money, but it reduces waste. The drives have been "self-dismantling" over the past couple of decades. In particular, the glue that holds the optical gratings has - in every case that I've seen - come undone. I've managed to make a few good PerSci's by combining parts from broken ones, at least. But they're amazingly complicated drives. (As well they should be, considering how much they cost back in the 70's - you could buy a brand new car for what 4 PerSci's cost.) Even on the broken ones there's a huge assortment of electromechanical parts still in place. How many other 8" floppy drives had motorized loading/ejecting? (I know that some Shugarts and NEC's had the option of ejecting via a solenoid, but I'm not counting solenoids here. And I'm certainly not counting the drives that would, if you loaded and unloaded the head often enough, vibrate so much that the door popped open! ) Tim. From wrking at dadaboom.com Sat Jul 28 10:41:07 2001 From: wrking at dadaboom.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: available: Q-bus SCSI controller Message-ID: I have a Distributed Logic Corp, SQ716A Rev J, differential (high voltage) Q-Bus SCSI disk controller that I'm willing to part with. I've tested it by booting into it's internal monitor on a uVAX (and that works), but I don't have a differential SCSI disk to test it with, so I guess it's as-is. Things I'd be willing to trade for (all or part). 1.) One each, RL02 unit select plugs 2 and 3. 2.) DEC BA123 cabinet kit for a RLV21 (RL01/RL02) disk controller. 3.) Rear rack mounting brackets for a DEC BA23 (5.25 inch rack mount uVaxII chassis). I have the two long side rails, but there is a small bracket which attaches each side rail to the rear mounting bracket in the rack cabinet. 4.) Some number of RL02 packs. Let me know if you are interested... Bill From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sat Jul 28 10:54:19 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: A great day! 2000 Access Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513F3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > oh? people are looking for a copy of 2000 Access? > > I have two copies on mag tape. One tape is 2000 Access for the 2100A/S and > the other is for the 21MX family. I didn't know people were still searching > for that, I thought everyone knew I had copies of it. So if people need a > copy of the tape, just let me know. Not a tape, but perhaps a .TAP or .TPC image of the tape.... ...the simulator doesn't have a real tape drive, you know... Regards, -doug q From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 28 11:29:59 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: A/UX In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 28, 2001 01:06:11 AM Message-ID: <200107281629.f6SGTxo17591@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >> >You forgot A/UX. > >> > >> Funny you should mention A/UX, I have my notebook full of original floppies > >> sitting here by my desk waiting to have them all imaged and put on a CDR. > >> Assuming all the floppies can be read, I plan to make a few extra CDRs. > > > >All my copies of A/UX came on CD. In fact, A/UX led me to buy my first > >CDROM drive. > > This one says version 1.1. Its part of my insane buying period, where > anything remotely like it I bought and hoarded, but didn't have time to > play with. Now my plan is buy VERY little, play a lot more. I went that same route. When I started collecting I went for diversity, but I found I never have enough time, so now I concentrate on a small range of systems I'm interested in, and even now I still wish I had more time to play with what i've got. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sat Jul 28 11:33:57 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Jim Davis" at Jul 28, 2001 02:16:54 AM Message-ID: <200107281633.f6SGXvD17609@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Don't you think it strange the bidding went from $50 to $600 in one bid? > When $50 seemed to high? > I smell a wumpus, or a rat! I've seen this happen a couple of times. Someone that really wants something will put a very high bid in, knowing that no matter what happens the eBay bidding mechanism will automatically up their bid. Someone else that really wants the same thing will then come along and put in a very high bid. This causes the bid to automatically shoot up to the lowest of the high bids. Fortunately I don't bid this way. I only bid what I'm willing to pay and that's it. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sat Jul 28 12:28:58 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Back from Vacation - Interesting Tid Bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings All, I'm back from my Canadian fishing adventure. July fishing in Ontario isn't as exciting as June fishing but still had alot of fun. At any rate, I returned home to a gift from my wife: WarGames on DVD with feature length commentary by the writers and director. Fascinating stuff. They claim to have invented Wardialing, which I'm more or less certain was invented by Draper with a prototype of the AppleCat modem. Now I have to plow through the Sun equipment I picked up in Indiana, the vax equipment I got locally, some roach infested commodore equipment I bought from Florida last year, setting up the new home for retroarchive.org and about a dozen web sites I'm working on. =-) It's nice to be busy. ;) Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 13:07:16 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Booting A PDP-11/23 Message-ID: I recently found a PDP-11/23 (Model 11C23-FE) at Goodwill. It is in a tall slim tower style enclosure, has a dual 5.25" floppy disk drive, a hard disk, and 1024KB. It passes the memory test, and trys to boot from "DU0". The light on the hard disk comes on for a few seconds, and then I get the message ERROR UNIT DU0 ERR 13 DRIVE NOT READY WISH TO REBOOT [Y,(N)]? So is something broken, or am I just doing something wrong? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Owen From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 28 12:57:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Free in Austin, TX: PDP-11 equipment In-Reply-To: <20010727213415.T19092@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jul 27, 1 09:34:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010728/785d8b79/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Sat Jul 28 13:42:39 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives In-Reply-To: <002a01c1176e$91676b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Gee! How much smaller, and how much later? The PerSci drives accepted step > rates in the low hundreds of microcseconds. For a long seek they actually > would traverse the diskette at average rates nearly that fast. How'd > the Epson drives do? Not sure. Some QX-10 user should have a feel for it. - don > Dick > From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jul 28 14:33:16 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107270439.AAA22044@conman.org> References: <200107270411.f6R4Bkr12590@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010728143151.02864590@pc> At 12:39 AM 7/27/01 -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: >Well, AmigaDOS has processes, threads, semaphores, message ports, >messages, preemptive multitasking, multiple file systems and long file names >(on such filesystems that support that). It's not multi-user so it lacks >file permissions but it's a single user OS anyway. What else do you need? Well, we once wanted memory protection, but seeing that all the above was based heavily on the fact that any process could poke into any other memory, it was tough. :-) - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 28 13:10:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives In-Reply-To: <002a01c1176e$91676b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 28, 1 08:05:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 618 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010728/896fcbaa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 28 14:37:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: HP98032 Option 085 details Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3005 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010728/096aff79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 28 14:41:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Booting A PDP-11/23 In-Reply-To: from "Owen Robertson" at Jul 28, 1 01:07:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 884 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010728/d6a99f54/attachment.ksh From wrking at dadaboom.com Sat Jul 28 15:09:56 2001 From: wrking at dadaboom.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: cipher f880 dosc Message-ID: Does anyone know where an online copy of the cipher f880 docs might be found? What I really need is the definitions of the switch settings internal to the drive (which one controls parity?). Thanks, Bill From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sat Jul 28 15:59:06 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: OT: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010728110120.00a4c100@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010728165548.00aca9c0@pop-server> At 11:02 AM 7/28/01 -0400, you wrote: > For any of you that wanted to know what's it's like to live in Florida! I disagree entirely. The record high temperature in the history of the Tampa Bay weather bureau is 97. It has never been any higher. We have never had a 100 degree day. The hottest days in NJ are much hotter than the hottest days here. We have more days above 90. The temperature here is 89, 90 or 91 every day. Every summer NJ has many days that are higher than the record highs here. Now as for the winters its just no contest at all. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jul 28 16:10:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Booting A PDP-11/23 Message-ID: <001401c117aa$4c682f60$de769a8d@ajp166> >> I recently found a PDP-11/23 (Model 11C23-FE) at Goodwill. It is in a tall >> slim tower style enclosure, has a dual 5.25" floppy disk drive, a hard disk, >> and 1024KB. It passes the memory test, and trys to boot from "DU0". The >> light on the hard disk comes on for a few seconds, and then I get the >> message >> >> ERROR UNIT DU0 >> ERR 13 DRIVE NOT READY >> WISH TO REBOOT [Y,(N)]? >> >> So is something broken, or am I just doing something wrong? Any help is >> greatly appreciated. First is there a hard disk drive there???? If there is start with Tony's suggestion of checking the enable and ready. IF not, you'll need a drive maybe. Do either of the floppies or their lights become active???? If they are it's looking for bootable media and there is none. The other possibility is the drive(s) is/are disconnected or maybe plain DOA. Allison From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sat Jul 28 16:17:57 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Sun 3/110 is alive! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I booted the 3/110 that I got from Tom Uban and it comes up, runs SunOS 4.1.1 and also runs xwindows. Cool! All on a spiffy 19" monitor. I think I'm going to like this machine. =) Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 28 16:39:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: AIM to please In-Reply-To: References: from "Owen Robertson" at Jul 28, 1 01:07:16 pm Message-ID: Today was a good day for finding old computer stuff. Mattel Aquarious in the original packing (no box though). Has manuals, power supply, but thats it beyond the console. AIM-65 in the grey typewriter looking case. Boots up fine and even has a full roll of paper in the printer. Now for the good news, the guy says he has about a dozen systems like it, AIM, KIM, and SYM. If it works out I may split the dozen between offering to this list and eBay. Email me privately if interested, and give me an idea of price and condition. The AIM65 I brought home is generally in fine shape, ie fly specks on the case that should clean up and a touch of rust on one of the exposed switches to the left of the display. Otherwise it looks like years of sitting and getting dirty (moderate cleaning project ahead including a filthy keyboard). Appleworks GS still sealed in the original box (box is toast though) and shrink on manuals. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 28 17:01:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: OT: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010728165548.00aca9c0@pop-server> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010728110120.00a4c100@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> Message-ID: >At 11:02 AM 7/28/01 -0400, you wrote: >> For any of you that wanted to know what's it's like to live in Florida! > >I disagree entirely. The record high temperature in the history of the >Tampa Bay weather bureau is 97. It has never been any higher. We have never About 50 miles east of where I live in always pleasant Orange California is Anza Borrego where in the summer it hits maybe 120 in the shade. So hot that drinking beer doesn't cool you off, only water. A vision of hell or at least heck. From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jul 28 17:14:22 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: OT: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! In-Reply-To: Re: OT: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! (Gene Ehrich) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010728110120.00a4c100@mailhost.intellistar.ne t> <4.3.2.7.2.20010728165548.00aca9c0@pop-server> Message-ID: <15203.14654.95017.922751@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 28, Gene Ehrich wrote: > > For any of you that wanted to know what's it's like to live in Florida! > > I disagree entirely. The record high temperature in the history of the > Tampa Bay weather bureau is 97. It has never been any higher. We have never > had a 100 degree day. The hottest days in NJ are much hotter than the > hottest days here. We have more days above 90. The temperature here is 89, > 90 or 91 every day. Every summer NJ has many days that are higher than the > record highs here. Though the original message was intended to be humorous, I have to agree with you here. Though I've lived in the Washington DC area now for about nine years, I've lived in Tampa for a while, and I have a house (a rental property) in Treasure Island...Every day of the Washington DC summer that I sweat and choke through leaves me longing for Tampa Bay weather. Nowhere near this hot in the summer, nowhere near this cold in the winter, and a certain lack of bullets flying overhead makes it so much more...relaxing. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jul 28 17:15:17 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Sun 3/110 is alive! In-Reply-To: Sun 3/110 is alive! (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) References: Message-ID: <15203.14709.884790.291488@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 28, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > I booted the 3/110 that I got from Tom Uban and it comes up, runs SunOS 4.1.1 > and also runs xwindows. Cool! > > All on a spiffy 19" monitor. I think I'm going to like this machine. =) Kick ass! The 3/110 is a fairly unusual machine. And a significant departure from the [otherwise reasonably consistent] Sun numbering scheme. A darn good design, in my opinion. -Dave McGuire From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jul 28 17:11:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <3B62D12A.1413F57C@tinyworld.co.uk> References: Message-ID: >> >I don't know about you, but ALL my property, even the contents of >> >my dumpster, >> >> Do you have some kind of auto TROLL software? > >Use your kill file, Mike. I am too gentle to even kill email. ;) Peace, Mike Ford From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 17:50:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: New finds In-Reply-To: <3B617D2A.31669.131AA4E@localhost> References: <3B617D2A.31669.131AA4E@localhost> Message-ID: >The other cool item was the first dual processor BeBox! First in >this case as in the first one off the assembly line. Can't wait to get >this home and hooked up. Of course I don't think that falls under >the 10 year rule. Cool all the same though.....what has it documented as the first one off the line? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jul 28 19:02:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives References: <010728113738.2a40465c@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <000f01c117c1$c31bf1c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have never had a Shugart or similar mechanism pop open as a consequence of other mechanical activity in the drive, but I have seen some that were loose enough that I can easily imagine such a thing. AFAIK, the PerSci was the only drive I ever used that had mechanized ejection. The Shugart, Siemens, QUME, Remex, etc, models I routinely used all used a sear and spring assembly to eject the diskette when the door was opened. There are lots of parts in a PerSci, and that's the reason they break down. Moreover, they behave like the typical Mercedes Benz, in that when one part of the thing doesn't work right, all of the rest of the drive knows about it and is influenced. They were interesting and fast, but I doubt, really, that they were worth the extra cost and hassle. They did, after all, require a different signal arrangement on the interface, and different seek command timing. The only thing that justified their cost was the fact that they put two diskettes in the space normally occupied by a single drive. Like a Benz, they were somewhat of a status symbol. The first one I saw was flush-mounted vertically in the top of a workstation desk. I'm sure that arrangement was cursed by many a user, somewhat clumsy with the morning coffee. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives > >Those PerSci drives bring about $9 in scrap value if you sufficiently dismantle > >It's not a way to make money, but it reduces waste. > > The drives have been "self-dismantling" over the past couple of decades. > In particular, the glue that holds the optical gratings has - in every case > that I've seen - come undone. I've managed to make a few good PerSci's > by combining parts from broken ones, at least. But they're amazingly > complicated drives. (As well they should be, considering how much > they cost back in the 70's - you could buy a brand new car for what 4 > PerSci's cost.) > > Even on the broken ones there's a huge assortment of electromechanical > parts still in place. How many other 8" floppy drives had motorized > loading/ejecting? (I know that some Shugarts and NEC's had the > option of ejecting via a solenoid, but I'm not counting solenoids here. > And I'm certainly not counting the drives that would, if you loaded and > unloaded the head often enough, vibrate so much that the door popped > open! ) > > Tim. > > From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 28 09:38:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107280452.VAA29040@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> UNIX is for masochists. I'll never get along with that system, it's so >> unfriendly, it was perceived as unfriendly even back in the seventies. And >> it will never conquer the desktop. >MacOS X. I'm a believer. First Unix that manages to avoid looking like Unix >(except if you want it to). I've never seen an X windows manager that did >any good other than making the Unix metaphor just pretty, not less >complicated. OS X, on the other hand, does an excellent job at hiding it away >from the casual user, but not making it ridiculously difficult for people to >get their hands dirty if they want. Personally, I think there's too much UNIX in OSX. They not only took the kernel, but the entire environment as well. Otherwise, (this wioll keep us within the ten-year rule), it reminds me of MiNT/MultiTOS. Incompetent OS programmers who can't make a functioning, full- featured system of their own just take a kernel off the rack and add some glue. Granted, OSX is an entirely new system of its own whereas MiNT retained TOS capability. But it's a tried and old concept. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. We have support for the PMAGC-B's on pmax right? That is a PixelVision based card right? I see Bt 463, that chip looks bigger than the 21164! Just looking at it makes me want to write an Xserver! Chris Tribo, NetBSD/pmax From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 28 09:49:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: OS/400 anyone? Message-ID: <404.609T350T9494071optimus@canit.se> While at the junkyard yesterday, someone had dumped a bloody lot of QIC tapes. The original labels said "AS/400 SYSTEM SOFTWARE" and such things. Great, right? But then there were additional labels saying such things as "H:\ NT BACKUP". Arrrrgh! They're reusing OS/400 tapes for such things? Bastards! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 28 10:12:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system (was: building a PDP11...) In-Reply-To: <20010727011322.N6628-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <604.609T2400T9725897optimus@canit.se> Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: >One of my crazy ideas is how to solve the internationalization problem. >Use extended ASCII or some now 8-bit-wided character set, and declare >English to be the official international language of the platform. Screw >this Unicode crap. Great idea, Geoff. Oh, wait, there is already such a system... I think it starts with a U, the there's an X in the back... I welcome Unicode. Everyone should, since it would solve this internationalisation problem. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant. Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 28 10:19:32 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <004101c1169d$31de18c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <420.609T1600T9795385optimus@canit.se> John Allain skrev: >>Take a look at http://www.adaos.org/ for something different. Of course >>you'd better like Ada, and it's only in the design stages as far as I can >I'm just reading through this thread. How about CLOS? >"Common Lisp Operating System" IIRC. A topic in 1989 or so. And while we're at it, there's an Oberon OS distribution for just about every conveivable platform. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 19:24:01 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se> References: <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Personally, I think there's too much UNIX in OSX. They not only took the >kernel, but the entire environment as well. >Otherwise, (this wioll keep us within the ten-year rule), it reminds me of >MiNT/MultiTOS. Incompetent OS programmers who can't make a functioning, full- >featured system of their own just take a kernel off the rack and add some >glue. Granted, OSX is an entirely new system of its own whereas MiNT retained >TOS capability. But it's a tried and old concept. It's still easy to see the NeXTstep heritage in OS X too. If a person is familiar with the way that NeXTstep/OpenStep does things, OS X should be an easy transition. There's no doubt that NeXTstep made for a more powerful OS but did the things taken from the classic Mac OS make it easy enough to use for even a beginner? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 28 20:01:07 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se>; from optimus@canit.se on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:38:46PM +0100 References: <200107280452.VAA29040@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010728200107.Q19092@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:38:46PM +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Personally, I think there's too much UNIX in OSX. They not only took the > kernel, but the entire environment as well. > Otherwise, (this wioll keep us within the ten-year rule), it reminds me of > MiNT/MultiTOS. Incompetent OS programmers who can't make a functioning, full- > featured system of their own just take a kernel off the rack and add some > glue. Granted, OSX is an entirely new system of its own whereas MiNT retained > TOS capability. But it's a tried and old concept. Actually, as far as I can tell, OS X is a revamped NeXTStep. Didnt anybody else laugh with glee (to themselves) when Apple releasd the G4 cube? "Wait a minute, i've seen this before.." Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jul 28 20:14:39 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Bought for $3 - MPX16 plus needs Message-ID: Hello, all: Well, VCFE wasn't so bad :-) I bought a Ciarica/Byte MXP16 8088-based PC-clone motherboard which was the subject of a series of articles in Byte in late 1982 and early 1983. I have the first two parts of the series (11/82 and 12/82), but I'm missing the 1/83 issue and possibly later (I don't know how many issues the article ran). For 1983, I only have beginning in July. If anyone has the remaining issues (except Sam -- based on the photos shown at VCFE, I'm sure that he couldn't find them :-)) containing articles, please contact me off-list. Thanks a lot. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jul 28 20:20:40 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Extra copy of "Apollo Computer" book by Hall Message-ID: Hello, all: For those interested, I seem to have found at home another copy of the history of the Apollo guidance computer book by Eldon Hall, speaker at VCFE. I purchased a signed copy from him today because I thought that I didn't have a copy at home. Surprise! So if anyone is interested in the *unsigned* copy, I'll let it go for $35 including shipping. I paid $45 for the signed copy and bought my first copy on Amazon for about $55. Again, interested parties please contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From mbg at world.std.com Sat Jul 28 20:25:05 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: <200107280239.WAA14774@world.std.com> Message-ID: <200107290125.VAA19168@world.std.com> >>"Number Five is alive." >Yup! That was it, but was it from the original or from the sequel? It was said in both movies... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From pjschilling at gcstech.net Sat Jul 28 20:39:17 2001 From: pjschilling at gcstech.net (Phil Schilling) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:11 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <9DF37CF84920D511B9A60040F6CC6702043C8D@naomi.gcstech.net> Message-ID: <9DF37CF84920D511B9A60040F6CC67020416B3@naomi.gcstech.net> I think Bill's got this one on the nose. A re-incarnation of Next. Maybe the industry is more ready for it this time around :>) Phil -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Bradford Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:01 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:38:46PM +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Personally, I think there's too much UNIX in OSX. They not only took the > kernel, but the entire environment as well. > Otherwise, (this wioll keep us within the ten-year rule), it reminds me of > MiNT/MultiTOS. Incompetent OS programmers who can't make a functioning, full- > featured system of their own just take a kernel off the rack and add some > glue. Granted, OSX is an entirely new system of its own whereas MiNT retained > TOS capability. But it's a tried and old concept. Actually, as far as I can tell, OS X is a revamped NeXTStep. Didnt anybody else laugh with glee (to themselves) when Apple releasd the G4 cube? "Wait a minute, i've seen this before.." Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From allain at panix.com Sat Jul 28 20:47:22 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: parts of the PDP-1 References: Message-ID: <010701c117d0$6945c0e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I've read, the Computer Museum in Boston appears to be more interested ... > ...tool of Microsoft and other large businesses? The Computer Museum in Boston at the time was an offshoot of a private project of Gwen Bell and Digital. John A. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 28 21:24:49 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010728143151.02864590@pc> Message-ID: <968.610T2450T2046379optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 12:39 AM 7/27/01 -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: >>Well, AmigaDOS has processes, threads, semaphores, message ports, >>messages, preemptive multitasking, multiple file systems and long file names >>(on such filesystems that support that). It's not multi-user so it lacks >>file permissions but it's a single user OS anyway. What else do you need? >Well, we once wanted memory protection, but seeing that all >the above was based heavily on the fact that any process could poke >into any other memory, it was tough. :-) AmigaOS is a zero-copy system, which makes it quite fast. Inter-process communications are simply done by passing pointers instead of copying the required data. Efficient but hardly secure. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music." David McMinn From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 28 21:44:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Pocket protectors Was: RE: Fun "events" for VCF In-Reply-To: <3B6102D3.24D4B948@home.com> Message-ID: <588.610T2700T2246133optimus@canit.se> Doug Coward skrev: >Douglas Quebbeman said: >> > >> > Vintage geek clothing contest. >> > >> >> heh. the winner should be someone who manages to find a way >> to wear both a t-sheet and a pocket protector... > This just got me to thinking.... > How did pocket protectors become associated with 'computer >enthusiasts'? > And how many here have wore a pocket protector on a regular >basis in the past? What the hell is a pocket protector? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Keine Grenze verlockt mehr zum Schmuggeln als die Altersgrenze. --- Robert Musil From optimus at canit.se Sat Jul 28 21:46:27 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Pocket protectors Was: RE: Fun "events" for VCF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <448.610T1350T2265247optimus@canit.se> Master of all that Sucks skrev: >IBM Engineers tend to wear pocket protectors. (I'm an IBM engineer). Then again, IBM employees are supposed to wear pantyhose as well. It's true! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. - Lupin! Vart ska du? - Tar v?gen ?ver berget f?ljer gr?nsen s? kommer vi till havet. - Det ?r ju mer ?n 100 km. - Det ?r v?l ingenting. Jag tillh?r v?rldseliten jag. Lupin III den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jul 28 20:54:00 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: RE: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home (Phil Schilling) References: <9DF37CF84920D511B9A60040F6CC6702043C8D@naomi.gcstech.net> <9DF37CF84920D511B9A60040F6CC67020416B3@naomi.gcstech.net> Message-ID: <15203.27832.325080.398962@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 28, Phil Schilling wrote: > I think Bill's got this one on the nose. A re-incarnation of Next. Maybe > the > industry is more ready for it this time around :>) NeXT shipped *A LOT* of machines, man. Now, granted, nearly none of them went into households, but they installed (by practically giving them away) huge numbers of them in american colleges, and a large nameless US Gov't agency bought a VERY LARGE number of them. I'm definitely not trying to be a NeXT-tribesman here...but NeXT's products, and their relative success & failure, are some of the most misunderstood things in the workstation industry. -Dave McGuire From ken at seefried.com Sat Jul 28 20:56:19 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: AU/X In-Reply-To: <200107290116.UAA48469@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200107290116.UAA48469@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010729015619.28275.qmail@mail.seefried.com> > Was the version you were running a C2 version? I was running A/UX 2.0/C2, > it was painful. Please. Try running the A/UX CMW version. Validated B1(+) level system. Also had a secure X Window system (no cut-and-paste between windows with different security labels, etc.). My first "real" job was with SecureWare, the company that wrote it (and similar systems for HP, DEC, Tektronix, etc.). And, yes, we wrote the C2 subsystem for SCO Unix. People who want to run C2 & B-level systems almost never know what they are getting into. Ken Seefried, CISSP From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Jul 28 21:44:15 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <15203.27832.325080.398962@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 09:54:00PM -0400 References: <9DF37CF84920D511B9A60040F6CC6702043C8D@naomi.gcstech.net> <9DF37CF84920D511B9A60040F6CC67020416B3@naomi.gcstech.net> <15203.27832.325080.398962@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010728214415.Y19092@mrbill.net> On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 09:54:00PM -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > NeXT shipped *A LOT* of machines, man. Now, granted, nearly none of > them went into households, but they installed (by practically giving > them away) huge numbers of them in american colleges, and a large > nameless US Gov't agency bought a VERY LARGE number of them. I owned a couple at one time that had large "Sanitized" stickers on them. 8-) > I'm definitely not trying to be a NeXT-tribesman here...but NeXT's > products, and their relative success & failure, are some of the most > misunderstood things in the workstation industry. Great hardware, Great OS, Bad Pricing & Marketing. (wait a minute, it sounds almost like i'm describing commodore.. No, I'm not bitter about the Amiga.. Not at all!) Bill (I still want a NeXTDimension system. dammit.) -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 21:50:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <15203.27832.325080.398962@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <9DF37CF84920D511B9A60040F6CC6702043C8D@naomi.gcstech.net> <9DF37CF84920D511B9A60040F6CC67020416B3@naomi.gcstech.net> <15203.27832.325080.398962@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > NeXT shipped *A LOT* of machines, man. Now, granted, nearly none of >them went into households, but they installed (by practically giving >them away) huge numbers of them in american colleges, and a large >nameless US Gov't agency bought a VERY LARGE number of them. Most accounts I've seen place the total number of NeXT machines made during the whole run at about 50,000. I do know that the first NeXT I bought was surplus from the Naval Research Lab and it wasn't but about 3 years old and it had already been sitting around a bit when it was surplussed and put up for sale down in Patuxent River. > I'm definitely not trying to be a NeXT-tribesman here...but NeXT's >products, and their relative success & failure, are some of the most >misunderstood things in the workstation industry. Care to enlighten us a bit? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 28 22:26:03 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! In-Reply-To: References: <200107281203.f6SC3C431987@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: >> Nice... wish I had a copy of Ultrix for the VAXstaton 3100 M38 here. >> It's got 32mb of memory and a DEC DSP3105 (RZ27? 1.05gb) as the boot >> disk and 100mb as a second disk. It's got dual SCSI busses and the >> 8 plane color graphics option which I'm driving a DEC mono monitor. >> (VR265?). > >Yes, I know the feeling. I've also got a a DECstation with, IIRC, >32MB of RAM and SCSI, but the former owner decided to delete most of >the Ultrix files, so the system is unuseable and in need of an Ultrix >distribution for DECstations. Note that I've not used my VAXstation >yet, to tell if the Ultrix on it survived shipping, as it doesn't >appear to work with the DECstation monitor cable. :-( Hopefully this >weekend I'll get a chance to attach a serial cable to it and attach it >to a terminal. Warning, the VS2000's, just like the MicroVAX II's require a special serial cable. You'll need to look at the VMS FAQ to learn how to wire the cable. http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm (note, this URL works, but who knows for how long) >If it's still bootable, how can I clone Ultrix for you? I have no You'll need to check the version, and see if it supports a VS3100 M38. However, what I'd recommed for both of you is NetBSD (well at least for the DECstation, for a VAX I always recommend VMS first). >> The hobbyist version has a ton of layered products and the security >> on 7.2 seems pretty good compared with 5.5. It is a lot bigger and >> slower than 11/780's running 3.6 -- I can tell you. > >> But I've got DECnet, TCP/IP and all the languages getting loaded right >> now. > >Having all that installed, and better security, sounds useful. I've found that as long as you don't load DECwindows on a MicroVAX II class machine with 16MB, it isn't to bad. However, I only loaded DECnet on that system, so I can't comment on how bad TCP/IP might make things. In fact come to think of it the slowest machine I've loaded V7.2 and TCPIP is a VS4000/VLC. >> I've also got another VAXstation 3100 M38 with 16mb I'd be looking >> to part with soon -- but the ethernet switch between thick and thin net >> is cracked and half missing. >> >> If anyone's interested in it let me know... > >I'm interested! This sounds like the perfect solution to your VAX 4000/200 problem! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 28 22:27:46 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <420.609T1600T9795385optimus@canit.se> References: <004101c1169d$31de18c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >>>Take a look at http://www.adaos.org/ for something different. Of course >>>you'd better like Ada, and it's only in the design stages as far as I can > >>I'm just reading through this thread. How about CLOS? >>"Common Lisp Operating System" IIRC. A topic in 1989 or so. > >And while we're at it, there's an Oberon OS distribution for just about >>every conveivable platform. How complete are the Oberon distro's though. Something I read recently led me to believe that you need to buy some high priced addon to get everything. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jss at subatomix.com Sat Jul 28 22:43:09 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <420.609T1600T9795385optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010728224206.L13284-100000@localhost> > I'm just reading through this thread. How about CLOS? > "Common Lisp Operating System" IIRC. A topic in 1989 or so. CLOS is the Common Lisp Object System, an OOP extension to Common Lisp. It is not an operating system. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From lsprung at optonline.net Sat Jul 28 22:56:42 2001 From: lsprung at optonline.net (L. Sprung) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: scelbi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: HI: Anyone know where I might find some SCELBI computer products and literature? Thanks! From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 28 22:52:58 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: A/UX In-Reply-To: <200107281629.f6SGTxo17591@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Mike Ford" at Jul 28, 2001 01:06:11 AM Message-ID: >> This one says version 1.1. Its part of my insane buying period, where >> anything remotely like it I bought and hoarded, but didn't have time to >> play with. Now my plan is buy VERY little, play a lot more. > >I went that same route. When I started collecting I went for diversity, >but I found I never have enough time, so now I concentrate on a small >range of systems I'm interested in, and even now I still wish I had >more time to play with what i've got. >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net I think it's a common problem in our hobby. I've still got a ton of 8-bit micro stuff that I've never touched, and that's with everything I've gotten rid of. Unfortunatly, I've concentrated on DEC OS's, which means a LOT of documenation, and LOT of hardware to run those OS's on :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jul 28 23:06:26 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <20010728200107.Q19092@mrbill.net> References: <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se>; from optimus@canit.se on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:38:46PM +0100 <200107280452.VAA29040@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Actually, as far as I can tell, OS X is a revamped NeXTStep. > >Didnt anybody else laugh with glee (to themselves) when Apple >releasd the G4 cube? > >"Wait a minute, i've seen this before.." > >Bill Here is the chain of events for the OS itself, I think I've got just about everything here. Apple buys NeXT (mainly to get Steve Jobs back I believe) Prelude to Rhapsody given out at at WWDC and shipped to developers (it's OPENSTEP 4.2). Remember with V4.0 NeXTstep became OPENSTEP. First Rhapsody beta's run on both x86 and *ALL* PCI based Mac's, they've got also got the classic mac interface. Rhapsody released as "Mac OS X Server" Mac OS X Beta's The Aqua interface is released on a Beta of Mac OS X Mac OS X Released In about 2 months Mac OS X 1.1 will be out. The question is, how many Mac users are still taking a wait and see attitude towards it? I just *FINALLY* upgraded from Mac OS 8.6/G4 to 9.1 *after* I bought the release version of Mac OS X. I used Mac OS X for a total of about a week after it came out. Once a Mac OS X native version of eXodus is released I'll give OSX a serious thought. The real problem I see for it is that there are currently no Adobe products except Acrobat Reader that run on it native. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jul 28 23:14:55 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jul 28, 1 08:24:01 pm" Message-ID: <200107290414.VAA09106@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > It's still easy to see the NeXTstep heritage in OS X too. If > a person is familiar with the way that NeXTstep/OpenStep does things, > OS X should be an easy transition. There's no doubt that NeXTstep > made for a more powerful OS but did the things taken from the classic > Mac OS make it easy enough to use for even a beginner? *I* think so. User levels range from Unix fr33kZ like me to another guy I know, who knows nothing about Unix and doesn't care, but he loves the interface and it looks like a cool, more stable OS 9 with great glitz. (And the fact he can Force Quit without running the risk of memory corruption is appealing, so in some small sense he does appreciate the Unix background, even if it's transparent/uninteresting to him. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A pedestal is as much a prison as any small, confined space. -- G. Steinem - From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Jul 28 23:15:27 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping References: <20010727183940.B8540-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <3B638DDF.7F6C2615@idirect.com> >Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > >On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > IOW, if packages ABCDEFGHIJK are sent sequntially, and B is late, > > rather than have CDEFGHIJK all be a little late, they will then be > > delivered ACDEFGHIJKB. > > Almost all of their packages are on time. The late one may be VERY > > late. > I think service guarantees are the reason behind their sequencing scheme. > Broken guarantees cost them money. Once package B is late, its guarantee > is broken, and nothing's going to change that. Letting B delay CDEFGHIJK > would mean many more broken guarantees. Putting B off until the end > (assuming CDEFGHIJK arrive on time) results in only one broken guarantee. Jerome Fine replies: I though I might add my own experience. In general, I find FedEx to be excellent, if a bit expensive compared to other carriers. But I do get what I pay for. In most cases, I suspect that the cost is much higher when a company who uses FedEx very little and does not have a volume discount sends me something. About 3 months ago, a shipment was sent via two day delivery. It was picked up on Friday and due the following Tuesday by 5:00 P.M. However, when it arrived VERY early Monday morning at the last stop before final delivery, they must have been less than busy and the shipment was scanned in and noted as being TOO early for delivery that day. HOWEVER, by the time Tuesday arrived, it was not found in the warehouse again in time and it did not arrive until 7:30 P.M. First, I was told that FedEx will often delay shipments if they are found to be arriving too soon (1 day instead of 2 days) since the justification is that if the customer is going to start assuming that 1 day delivery is normal even though only 2 days is being paid for, then that is all that will be paid for almost all of the time. Second, I would probably not have complained if I had not seen the note that the shipment was chosen to be delayed - but when FedEx actually chose to delay it on Monday and then did not meet the deadline on Tuesday, I felt a bit more than annoyed. Third, when I did call and talk to a low level (first level) complaint taker, THERE WAS A VERY STRONG ATTEMPT to ignore my complaint and fob me off without any consideration. I think at that point, if FedEx had just apologized, it would have been enough, however, since that was not forthcoming, I ASKED - STRONGLY REQUESTED - FINALLY DEMANDED to talk to a supervisor. If you get that result, be firm but courteous (after all those low level complaint takers are only doing what the VP instructs them to do - but it might be interesting to consider a class action suit if everyone else had the same experience) and insist on speaking to the next level supervisor who was a courteous as can be and IMMEDIATELY agreed to a refund of the shipping charges. Fourth, this was a shipment from the US to Canada. If you are doing this, a "Commercial Invoice" is required (4 copies I am told). However, if the value on the "Commercial Invoice" (NOT including shipping and handling - just the cost of the goods) is below $ US 12.00 or $ Can 20.00, then at least in Ontario and probably all provinces west will classify the shipment as "LOW VALUE" and NOT collect the GST of 7%. This means that the shipment does not need a broker to clear it since the only thing a broker is really needed for is to make the arrangements to pay Revenue Canada the GST (the charge for which is almost always included when sending by air, BUT NOT INCLUDED when sending by ground - and those brokerage charges can be up to five or even tens times the actual GST charge. Note that when sending by ground by USPS, the green CN-22 customs sticker seems sufficient when the value is $ US 12.00 or below. Fifth, it seems to delay shipments above $ US 12.00 a minimum of one day in customs so that the GST can be collected. I saw an article in the paper today that Bush and Canada might consider dropping the border checks (almost a million people a day and 2 billion in goods between Canada and the US). I don't know how much of that trade is business to business, but for goods coming into Canada from the US, every penny of any GST that a business pays right now is never even worth the paper work to collect it if the goods are worth about $ US 1000 or less. For example, on shipments valued at $ Can 1000, the GST at 7% is $ Can 70 and Revenue Canada would, I guess receive that $ Can 70 as soon as the shipment crosses the border. But about 3-6 weeks later, any business which paid that amount would deduct that same $ Can 70 from any GST collected from a Canadian customer. Thus the net result of all the extra handling is that Revenue Canada saves about 1 month of interest on that $ US 70 - or about $ Can 3.00 - hardly worth the paper work to collect it and the company and everyone else probably spends and extra $ Can 10 just collecting and keeping track as well. There was an estimate that retail prices might actually drop a few percent as a result. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jul 28 23:23:51 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jul 28, 1 03:38:46 pm" Message-ID: <200107290423.VAA08406@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >MacOS X. I'm a believer. First Unix that manages to avoid looking like Unix > >(except if you want it to). I've never seen an X windows manager that did > >any good other than making the Unix metaphor just pretty, not less > >complicated. OS X, on the other hand, does an excellent job at hiding it away > >from the casual user, but not making it ridiculously difficult for people to > >get their hands dirty if they want. > > Personally, I think there's too much UNIX in OSX. They not only took the > kernel, but the entire environment as well. You have in fact used it? Or did you just see it in a shop and pass judgement on it at long range? When you start up OS X, you aren't confronted with arcane pathnames or /dev/thisnthat, or anything like what you'd get from X. You don't start off with an Xterm, a spartan file manager and a shell prompt; you get the dock and desktop icons. It looks like a futuristic, glitzy Mac, not like a window manager. That's what it's supposed to do. The environment is there, yes, but it's well hidden. If you go to Terminal, you get a real live tcsh, and then the Unix pedigree becomes apparent when you start digging around in the filesystem with the usual suspects. But you don't need to do any of this because the Finder keeps the old MacOS conventions as a veneer. You need no Unix experience to use it, and there are people around here who have none, but still love it. This is not true of Red Hat, or Mandrake, or any of the other "Unix for dummies" dists despite what they trumpet. The environment and the fact it's Unix is thrown in your face with those -- but not here. You get the Unix environment in OS X when you ask for it, but not before. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: Police To Begin Campaign To Run Down Jaywalkers ------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jul 28 23:34:59 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jul 28, 1 09:06:26 pm" Message-ID: <200107290434.VAA07966@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The question is, how many Mac users are still taking a wait and see > attitude towards it? I just *FINALLY* upgraded from Mac OS 8.6/G4 to 9.1 > *after* I bought the release version of Mac OS X. I used Mac OS X for a > total of about a week after it came out. Once a Mac OS X native version of > eXodus is released I'll give OSX a serious thought. The real problem I see > for it is that there are currently no Adobe products except Acrobat Reader > that run on it native. That, and the fact that OS X is still really dicey on Old World Macs (not Apple's fault, they never supported them in the first place), is why I don't run OS X at home. However, in the office on the G4/450, it's a happy camper. I need to repartition the hard drive, though, since I skimped on space initially. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If your happiness depends on anyone else, you've got a problem. -- R. Bach - From rdd at smart.net Sat Jul 28 23:55:11 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Pocket protectors Was: RE: Fun "events" for VCF In-Reply-To: <588.610T2700T2246133optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 29 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Doug Coward skrev: > >Douglas Quebbeman said: > >> heh. the winner should be someone who manages to find a way > >> to wear both a t-sheet and a pocket protector... That's easy. Clip the pocket protector on with alligator clips attached to red and black wires... this will have the advantage or providing one with an emergency supply of spare test leads. :-) > > This just got me to thinking.... > > How did pocket protectors become associated with 'computer > >enthusiasts'? Ok, I see it's time for the Pocket Protectors 101 course... Since I wore one back in college during a time when I was taking a lot of math, science and electronics classes, I'll take a guess at answering this. Back then, math, engineering, electronics, etc. students were the most likely students to be computer hackers. Such students have a need to carry a wide variety of pencils and pens, etc. in their shirt pockets; for example, I typically had fine and extra fine point Scripto (?) "click" pencils (press on the little chrome tab that holds the eraser and more lead comes out), a retractable erasor, a couple of different pens and perhaps a felt-tipped marker or two. Pocket protectors are made of reasonably thick vinyl and lessen the chance of one damaging oneself, or one's clothes, if one fall, bends, or bumps into something the wrong way --- that is, in such a way as to get stabbed by the writing instruments in one's shirt pocket. Pocket protectors also keep one's pocket from getting dirty from lead and pens that might leak ink; in addition, they protect the shirt pocket from the wear of clipping and unclipping writing instruments to and from it. > > And how many here have wore a pocket protector on a regular > >basis in the past? > > What the hell is a pocket protector? You've never heard of a pocket protector before? Amazing. Perhaps it's a language translation thing, and they're called something else in your country. Over here, they're very popular. A pocket protector, as mentioned above, is a reasonably heavy vinyl lining for a shirt pocket, into which one places writing instruments, etc. Refer to figure 1 below for an illustration of a pocket protector. The pocket protector is represented by the asterisks; the straight lines represent the shirt and pocket. | |* |* |* *** |* *|* |* *|* |* *| |***| +---+ fig. 1 ASCII cutaway representation of a pocket protector. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 29 00:14:09 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Need manual, or copy Message-ID: Just got an HP 5381A frequency counter, and although it's basically straightforward and simple, I was curious if anyone had a manual that they could copy, scan, etc so I had it for future reference, or knew of somewhere on the web that it might be stored in scanned or PDF format. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010729/2005a90c/attachment.html From MTPro at aol.com Sun Jul 29 00:15:36 2001 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: vintage computing Message-ID: <15.17d19e00.2894f5f8@aol.com> Please respond directly to: freds@monarch-info.com I need to obtain products from TOPS, a SUN subsidiary. They made Flashbox and Flashcard, products used to interconnect PCs and Macs. These were used around 1991. Do you have any suggestions? Regards, Fred Scholl From donm at cts.com Sun Jul 29 00:17:11 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: OT: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >At 11:02 AM 7/28/01 -0400, you wrote: > >> For any of you that wanted to know what's it's like to live in Florida! > > > >I disagree entirely. The record high temperature in the history of the > >Tampa Bay weather bureau is 97. It has never been any higher. We have never > > About 50 miles east of where I live in always pleasant Orange California is > Anza Borrego where in the summer it hits maybe 120 in the shade. So hot > that drinking beer doesn't cool you off, only water. A vision of hell or at > least heck. Yup, pretty hot I agree, but you have to admit that the relative humidity becomes asymptotic with zero! - don From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 29 00:41:39 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: <448.610T1350T2265247optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 29 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Then again, IBM employees are supposed to wear pantyhose as well. > It's true! Hmmm, I wonder... does IBM have have any rules stating where employees are supposed to wear them, or do the rules just state that one is to wear them? There are multiple possibilities... over one's arms, head, around one's shoulders, in one's sportscoat pocket in place of a handkerchief, etc. Working at IBM must be rather interesting... the more rules, the more poorly defined rules there usually are which one can twist around to make the workplace environment more interesting. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jul 29 00:31:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: OT: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Yup, pretty hot I agree, but you have to admit that the relative >humidity becomes asymptotic with zero! It wasn't the temperature that bothered me so much in St. Louis as it was the humidity. Here in D.C. it's nothing like St. Louis in that respect. I don't miss the days of instantly being drenched in sweat the moment you walk out the door. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jul 29 00:57:25 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: vintage computing In-Reply-To: <15.17d19e00.2894f5f8@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010728225440.022b0260@209.185.79.193> Hi Fred, Most of the TOPS stuff was tossed out at Sun even before I had left. I'm guessing your best bet would be to try BMUG (Berkeley Mac Users Group) as a relatively large number of developers belonged and they might still be around. --Chuck At 01:15 AM 7/29/01 -0400, you wrote: >Please respond directly to: freds@monarch-info.com > >I need to obtain products from TOPS, a SUN subsidiary. They made Flashbox >and Flashcard, products used to interconnect PCs and Macs. These were used >around 1991. Do you have any suggestions? > > >Regards, Fred Scholl From fernande at internet1.net Sun Jul 29 01:42:09 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Anybody need this? Message-ID: <3B63B041.F226186C@internet1.net> I neglected to list this as available the other day. Memorex-Telex 85PS server case. I think this is a standard Intel server design, not ATX, and not AT, However. It is sort of in between looking to me. I have also seen this case used by Zenith for one of there Z-Servers. It'll hold about 8 3.5 inch hard drives. It also has a floppy drive plus space for a tape or cd-rom. It is new. I have all the paper work, cables, etc for it. It's free, but you pay shipping. It's in my living room, and will be recycled if no one wants it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From terryc at woa.com.au Sun Jul 29 01:58:03 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: OT Re: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) References: Message-ID: <3B63B3FB.EEBE82DD@woa.com.au> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > On 29 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Then again, IBM employees are supposed to wear pantyhose as well. > > It's true! > > Hmmm, I wonder... does IBM have have any rules stating where employees Since this has now gained an OT life, I'll just throw in that lifesavers (beach guards) in Queensland, Australia, do wear pantyhose - for protection from box jelly fish (marine stingers). I guess that is a hint for the people designing wearable computers - build them by weaving bits into something very versatile. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From terryc at woa.com.au Sun Jul 29 02:26:33 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia Message-ID: <3B63BAA9.E03A743C@woa.com.au> I have a 30 metre length of thicknet (10base5) with screw on fittings at each end and a vampire tap in the middle. As the cable gets dragged around from LUG fest to LUG fest, I expect the vampire tap to eventually fail and damage the cable. So, I am looking for someone (preferrably) in Sydney, Australia) who is able to break the cable in half and fit new screw fittings. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Jul 29 03:50:34 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: OT? news clip Message-ID: <200107290850.f6T8oY251077@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Saw this tidbit in the latest (July 2001) IEEE History Center newsletter, and thought the scanning electron microscopy folks here might find it interesting: 2001-2002 IEEE Life Members Fellowship in Electrical and Computing History This year's Fellowship in Electrical and Computing History has been awarded to Cyrus Mody, whose research is on "Scanning Probe Microscopy: The Genesis and Development of Tools and Practices in Engineering Science, 1970-2000." Cyrus Mody earned his A.B. in engineering science from Harvard University and is pursuing graduate studies at Cornell University. (end) If you want to find out more about the IEEE History Center, look at . -Frank McConnell From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 29 03:02:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: vintage computing In-Reply-To: <15.17d19e00.2894f5f8@aol.com> Message-ID: >Please respond directly to: freds@monarch-info.com > >I need to obtain products from TOPS, a SUN subsidiary. They made Flashbox >and Flashcard, products used to interconnect PCs and Macs. These were used >around 1991. Do you have any suggestions? > > >Regards, Fred Scholl Had a few hits, but I am still curious as "what" you specifically need and what you want to do. I have a few similar items and may even have some of the Tops Flashcards, but I have some much I frequently get a little lost. Most of the time ethernet is a more practical solution. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 29 02:43:45 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: References: <20010728200107.Q19092@mrbill.net> <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se>; from optimus@canit.se on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 03:38:46PM +0100 <200107280452.VAA29040@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <1355.609T2300T9385729optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >The question is, how many Mac users are still taking a wait and see >attitude towards it? I just *FINALLY* upgraded from Mac OS 8.6/G4 to 9.1 >*after* I bought the release version of Mac OS X. I used Mac OS X for a >total of about a week after it came out. Once a Mac OS X native version of >eXodus is released I'll give OSX a serious thought. The real problem I see >for it is that there are currently no Adobe products except Acrobat Reader >that run on it native. I am on another list that while informal, is made up of hard core mac supporters and developers, and the consensus is that they play with each release, but don't expect it to be ready for prime time for another 6 months or so. For myself I am setting at 8.6 as my most advanced install and have system running that I use back to 7.5.3 on powermacs and farther on older systems. Moving back and forth between various OS releases is pretty painless too. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jul 29 04:22:54 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Ethernet -- thicknet and thinnet before 10BaseT In-Reply-To: Bill Pechter "Re: Ethernet -- thicknet and thinnet before 10BaseT" (Jul 28, 8:16) References: <200107281216.f6SCGmT32122@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <10107291022.ZM4036@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 28, 8:16, Bill Pechter wrote: > But bridges originally just repeat... > -- maybe they do the old 1987 spanning tree loop avoidance... > -- maybe they learn and eventually send just the traffic for the remote end > > But in the beginning they were dumb repeaters. > And the network was a dumb wire... Coax. How dumb can it get. I'm not quite sure what you're saying. If you're saying that the earliest bridges were dumb repeaters, you're wrong. The definition of a bridge is a layer 2 device that passes traffic according to the destination addresses contained in the packets. If you're saying that the way a bridge works is to learn where addresses are, and until it knows, it will pass packets everywhere, that's true. Even with old bridges, you wouldn't be able to see *all* the network traffic because the bridges would split the net into different collision domains (that's what they are for), so the only traffic that would go everywhere was broadcast traffic. You wouldn't even see all the broadcast traffic if you had a router or two in the system, and there's nothing new about that either. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 29 06:28:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: <002b01c1176e$9188fd40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > No, though I've put a few in there. I have gotten some pretty good bridge > controllers, etc, from the dumpster's overflow. GUILTY!!! Send him to the molten iron vat! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jul 29 07:28:33 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: HP98032 Option 085 details In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010729082807.00a64b40@mailhost.intellistar.net> Cool! Thanks, Tony! Joe At 08:37 PM 7/28/01 +0100, you wrote: >Somebody (Joe?) was asking for information on the various cables and >jumper settings used with the HP98032, a 16 bit parallel interface for >the HP9825 (etc) calculator. > >I've found the Option 085 cable, the one used to link it to an HP9885 8" >floppy disk drive. I spent a little time noting down the wirelist, etc, >and here it is. The wire colours are given using the standard numeric >code used by HP and Tektronix -- the digits denote the colours (same code >as the resistor colour code), the first digit is the base colour, then >the wider (or only) stripe, then the narrow stripe. So '8' means a simple >grey wire, '914' means a white wire (9) with a brown (1) and yellow (4) >stripe. > >Actually, the colours in this cable are the same as the ones for the >general purpose unterminated cable given in the 98032 manaul. The only >difference is that this cable has a DD50 socket on the end of it. > >I've also noted down the jumpers that are installed on the option PCB. If >I don't mention a jumper, it wasn't fitted. There is no extra timing >capacitor on the option PCB either. > >If anyone has any of the other Options, I (and I guess Joe) would be >interested in getting wirelists for those too. I have several 98032s, but >only one disk drive, so the ability to use some of them for printers, >paper tape punches, etc would be useful. > >Anyway, here's the wirelist for Option 085 > >DD50 Wire 98032 Signal >1 9 A25 Drain >2 905 A1 Gnd >3 906 B1 Gnd >4 927 A22 Ctl0 >5 902 A21 PReset >6 928 A23 Ctl1 >7 918 B21 EIR >8 9 A18 Gnd >9 9 B18 Drain >10 98 A19 Pctl >11 903 A24 Gnd >12 904 B24 Gnd >13 8 B19 Pflg >14 908 B20 Psts >15 901 A20 I/O >16 916 B22 Sti0 >17 917 B23 Sti1 >18 948 A2 DO15 >19 947 A3 DO14 >20 946 A4 DO13 >21 945 A5 DO12 >22 937 A6 DO11 >23 936 A7 DO10 >24 935 A8 DO9 >25 934 A9 DO8 >26 97 A10 DO7 >27 96 A11 DO6 >28 95 A12 D05 >29 94 A13 DO4 >30 93 A14 DO3 >31 92 A15 DO2 >32 91 A16 DO1 >33 90 A17 DO0 >34 N/C >35 926 B2 DI15 >36 925 B3 DI14 >37 924 B4 DI13 >38 923 B5 DI12 >39 915 B6 DI11 >40 914 B7 DI10 >41 913 B8 DI9 >42 912 B9 DI8 >43 7 B10 DI7 >44 6 B11 DI6 >45 5 B12 DI5 >46 4 B13 DI4 >47 3 B14 DI3 >48 2 B15 DI2 >49 1 B16 DI1 >50 0 B17 DI0 > >Jumpers : >2 Output +ve true >7 DMA Enable >8 Clock high input byte on rdy >B Word Input >E Clock low input byte on rdy >F Word Output > >-tony From foo at siconic.com Sun Jul 29 06:37:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Back from Vacation - Interesting Tid Bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com wrote: > At any rate, I returned home to a gift from my wife: WarGames on DVD > with feature length commentary by the writers and director. > Fascinating stuff. They claim to have invented Wardialing, which I'm > more or less certain was invented by Draper with a prototype of the > AppleCat modem. They didn't invent "wardialing", but the term came to be after the movie premiered, as people associated the act of dialing many thousands of numbers in hopes of finding a carrier to explore with what David Lightman did in the movie, hence "war[games]dialing". I used to call it "scanning" before I ever heard the term "wardial", and didn't understand the reference until much later. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jul 29 08:40:50 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia Message-ID: <008f01c11835$40aedee0$de769a8d@ajp166> ask your local radio amateur to put two type N connectors on it, and since they cost a few please supply them. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Terry Collins To: Classic Computer Date: Sunday, July 29, 2001 3:50 AM Subject: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia >I have a 30 metre length of thicknet (10base5) with screw on fittings at >each end and a vampire tap in the middle. As the cable gets dragged >around from LUG fest to LUG fest, I expect the vampire tap to eventually >fail and damage the cable. > >So, I am looking for someone (preferrably) in Sydney, Australia) who is >able to break the cable in half and fit new screw fittings. > > >-- > Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 > email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au > WOA Computer Services > > "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Jul 29 09:58:37 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: A few new finds Message-ID: <000b01c1183e$f3b5c720$35711fd1@default> Picked up a Wavetek waveform generator model 159 yesterday at the thrift and it works great ($3.95). also picked 6 really nice mousepads for that part of the collection at the same thrift. Picked up some in the box 2600, Genesis, and Odyssey game cartridges from 80 cents to $2.99 each. I know they are not 10 years old yet but has anyone else notice the number of playstation one's at the thrift's lately ? They have been priced from 3.99 (console only) to 14.99 (complete systems). New games (unopened) have been $1 to $13 dollars at the thrift's here. From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 29 10:29:13 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Pocket protectors Was: RE: Fun "events" for VCF Message-ID: On 29 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Doug Coward skrev: > >Douglas Quebbeman said: > >> heh. the winner should be someone who manages to find a way > >> to wear both a t-sheet and a pocket protector... That's easy. Clip the pocket protector on with alligator clips attached to red and black wires... this will have the advantage or providing one with an emergency supply of spare test leads. :-) > > This just got me to thinking.... > > How did pocket protectors become associated with 'computer > >enthusiasts'? Ok, I see it's time for the Pocket Protectors 101 course... Since I wore one back in college during a time when I was taking a lot of math, science and electronics classes, I'll take a guess at answering this. Back then, math, engineering, electronics, etc. students were the most likely students to be computer hackers. Such students have a need to carry a wide variety of pencils and pens, etc. in their shirt pockets; for example, I typically had fine and extra fine point Scripto (?) "click" pencils (press on the little chrome tab that holds the eraser and more lead comes out), a retractable erasor, a couple of different pens and perhaps a felt-tipped marker or two. Pocket protectors are made of reasonably thick vinyl and lessen the chance of one damaging oneself, or one's clothes, if one fall, bends, or bumps into something the wrong way --- that is, in such a way as to get stabbed by the writing instruments in one's shirt pocket. Pocket protectors also keep one's pocket from getting dirty from lead and pens that might leak ink; in addition, they protect the shirt pocket from the wear of clipping and unclipping writing instruments to and from it. > > And how many here have wore a pocket protector on a regular > >basis in the past? > > What the hell is a pocket protector? You've never heard of a pocket protector before? Amazing. Perhaps it's a language translation thing, and they're called something else in your country. Over here, they're very popular. A pocket protector, as mentioned above, is a reasonably heavy vinyl lining for a shirt pocket, into which one places writing instruments, etc. Refer to figure 1 below for an illustration of a pocket protector. The pocket protector is represented by the asterisks; the straight lines represent the shirt and pocket. | |* |* |* *** |* *|* |* *|* |* *| |***| +---+ fig. 1 ASCII cutaway representation of a pocket protector. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 29 10:31:29 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) Message-ID: On 29 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Then again, IBM employees are supposed to wear pantyhose as well. > It's true! Hmmm, I wonder... does IBM have have any rules stating where employees are supposed to wear them, or do the rules just state that one is to wear them? There are multiple possibilities... over one's arms, head, around one's shoulders, in one's sportscoat pocket in place of a handkerchief, etc. Working at IBM must be rather interesting... the more rules, the more poorly defined rules there usually are which one can twist around to make the workplace environment more interesting. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 29 10:41:07 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think the IBM employees that become part of cuts are the ones that wear the pantyhose over their heads - as they rob a local store for cash after layoff. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 10:31 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) -> -> -> -> On 29 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: -> > Then again, IBM employees are supposed to wear pantyhose as well. -> > It's true! -> -> Hmmm, I wonder... does IBM have have any rules stating where employees -> are supposed to wear them, or do the rules just state that one is to -> wear them? There are multiple possibilities... over one's arms, head, -> around one's shoulders, in one's sportscoat pocket in place of a -> handkerchief, etc. Working at IBM must be rather interesting... the -> more rules, the more poorly defined rules there usually are which one -> can twist around to make the workplace environment more interesting. -> -> -- -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> other animals: -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> above Nature & -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> to justify such -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -> -> From dlw at trailingedge.com Sun Jul 29 10:42:12 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: New finds In-Reply-To: References: <3B617D2A.31669.131AA4E@localhost> Message-ID: <3B63E884.5033.8EFEB@localhost> On 28 Jul 2001, at 18:50, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Cool all the same though.....what has it documented as the > first one off the line? So far I just have his word but even if it isn't I'll still take the system. :-) This guy buys all the unusual computing stuff when it comes out and was working with them when Be was putting together the system. He said he had the first order in for one. I'll know more when he brings the system over as he has some sort of documentation on it. Either way, it's a cool find. Now I'm off to Austin to pick up a bunch of stuff from Bill. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Jul 29 10:55:20 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You mean a kill file only kills email!!!! DAMN!!!! All these years I thought I was doing the gene pool some good... Clint On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> >I don't know about you, but ALL my property, even the contents of > >> >my dumpster, > >> > >> Do you have some kind of auto TROLL software? > > > >Use your kill file, Mike. > > I am too gentle to even kill email. ;) > > Peace, Mike Ford > > > > From ngk at gis.net Sun Jul 29 11:39:55 2001 From: ngk at gis.net (ngk) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: HP external disk drives available Message-ID: <3B643C5B.42D1C874@gis.net> Hello Joe, My name is Gene and I may not have responded to the right selection at the bottom of your add with yesterdays inquary. I'm interested in the HP 9122 you offered for sale. What is the cost and shipping to MA? Are the units fully operational? Thank you Gene From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Jul 29 11:37:29 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Looking for documentation for EMC memory boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reply off list plz... Traffic is getting way to high... Thanks! clint From vaxcat at retrocomputing.com Sun Jul 29 12:27:17 2001 From: vaxcat at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Retrocomputing.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Today's MicroVax Amusement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well the MicroVax 3100 model 30 boots just fine into OpenVMS 7.1 with TCP/IP stuff built in. It looks reasonably spiffy with LOTS of drive space and a TZ30 in the expansion box. Did the system password hack to get in. I'm tempted to put a static nat entry on my dsl router and let people telnet into it to chat with me via vaxphone. =-D Anthony Clifton Des Moines, Iowa From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jul 29 12:27:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited References: Message-ID: <002d01c11853$bcea2be0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> HEY! What's in YOUR dumpster is private. YOU pay the rent on the thing, after all. What's lying in the alley NEXT TO the dumpster because you or someone else failed to put it in the dumpster is another matter. It is, after all, in the public right-of-way. Those aluminum cans belong the trash hauler once you put them in the dumpster, but if you miss, they belong to the street-people, since it's unlikely your hauler will pick them up. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 5:28 AM Subject: Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited > On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > No, though I've put a few in there. I have gotten some pretty good bridge > > controllers, etc, from the dumpster's overflow. > > GUILTY!!! > > Send him to the molten iron vat! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jul 29 12:32:04 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: A few new finds In-Reply-To: <000b01c1183e$f3b5c720$35711fd1@default> Message-ID: >I know they are not 10 years old yet but has anyone else notice the >number of playstation one's at the thrift's lately ? They have been >priced from 3.99 (console only) to 14.99 (complete systems). New games >(unopened) have been $1 to $13 dollars at the thrift's here. Not around here, if I or my wife had been we'd probably be snapping up the lower priced ones and reselling them to one of the local places that deal in games. Around here that's the lowend price range for a Sega Genesis class or below system. The cheapest PSX I've seen is about $40-50. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From sieler at allegro.com Sun Jul 29 13:40:00 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:12 2005 Subject: QNX hosts In-Reply-To: <056701c116ee$ce56b120$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Message-ID: <3B63F610.20955.A295850@localhost> Re: > I later acquired QNX 1.0 for the 8088 IBM PC, Nabu 1600 (8086) and > Cemcorp Icon (80186 bionic beaver, a machine put into every Ontario school) ... I agree...I seem to recall talking to the QNX people circa late 1981 or early 1982, when we (Next Generation Systems) were thinking of porting our FORTH to it from the PC. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > > Agreed. I heard of QNX _years_ ago on the mc68k platform, long before > > I saw it for the first time (on a 486, running the air handlers and > > environmental controls at the science lab at McMurdo; they also use it Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 29 12:33:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Bought for $3 - MPX16 plus needs In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Jul 28, 1 09:14:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 672 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010729/fc80dcec/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 29 12:37:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Free in DC area: Fuji SMD drives In-Reply-To: <000f01c117c1$c31bf1c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 28, 1 06:02:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1074 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010729/0117b5a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 29 13:00:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia In-Reply-To: <3B63BAA9.E03A743C@woa.com.au> from "Terry Collins" at Jul 29, 1 05:26:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1347 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010729/8f27701c/attachment.ksh From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sun Jul 29 14:06:43 2001 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: BRATS hamfest... Message-ID: Well, I got up at 5am to go to this. Got there at 6 when the gates opened. Attendance was light, probably due to the impending rain. There was no rain at 6 and there were about 30 tailgaters. Not much of vintage interest, some Sun boxes here and there, a few old Macs and one guy with a couple of Atari boxes. Got what I thought was a good deal, 4 2Gig wide SCSI drives for $3 each. Unfortunately, now that I've got them home, I see that they are HVD. Does anyone have a PCI HVD SCSI controller that they might part with for a reasonable fee? Anyway, the rains came at about 7:15, some tarps and tents popped up, but a lot of guys just packed up at that point. Peeked inside the indoor space, which was to open at 8, looked like a run of the mill clone show with some radio vendors thrown in... so I called it a day. Oh well... From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jul 29 15:59:54 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Free: DEC/PDP & Sun Stuff Message-ID: <20010729155954.Y19092@mrbill.net> FREE STUFF! For pickup (only) in Austin, TX. I'm available any night of the week after 6pm. PDP stuff still left: Two RX01 dual-8" floppy drives. David W. didnt have enough room in his van after the 11/60 and other stuff was loaded, so they're first-come, first-serve. Sun stuff: 4/690MP VME cardcage and blower 6 x 2.1gig 5.25" FH HVD SCSI HDs Lots of diff. external cables, etc 3 x rackmount drive "trays" w/power supplies 1 x holds the 6 drives above 2 x holds 3 1.3gig IPI drives 6 x 1200W power supplies for the VME cardcage (lots of extras!) Other stuff: Tons (6-7 at least) of older 386/486/K5-based motherboards, RAM, older CD-ROM drives, video cards, etc. Enough parts here to build at least 3-4 working systems, I'd say. I've also got a custom 486 in a Bell-logo'ed custom-built rackmount case that has/had windows 3.11 installed for some kind of CO switch management. The "rules": 1. No making any of this stuff into 'wall hangings'. Well, you can do that with the PC stuff, but not the Sun or DEC stuff. 8-) 2. You have to give it a good home or give it to someone else who will. 3. If I dont get any takers on the VME cardcage, someone who comes to get something else has to help me toss it into the giant construction dumpster in the front yard. I narrowly avoided certain Doom via Wife when David showed up to take some of the larger PDP stuff off my hands today. 8-) Email me if interested in anything. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 29 16:29:42 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: M2333 and M2382 drive questions Message-ID: Greetings, Yesterday, thanks to Tim Shoppa, I collected some 8" SMD drives: a couple of Fujitsu M2333 (337MB) and M2382 (1GB each!) drives and an Emulex SC03 controller. Its my understanding that I might not be able to use these large drives with an SCO2 or SC03 controller, so, I'm wondering what I need in order to use them with a PDP-11/73. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jul 29 16:17:36 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: [rescue] Free: DEC/PDP & Sun Stuff In-Reply-To: <20010729155954.Y19092@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 03:59:54PM -0500 References: <20010729155954.Y19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010729161736.G19092@mrbill.net> On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 03:59:54PM -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: > I narrowly avoided certain Doom via Wife when David showed > up to take some of the larger PDP stuff off my hands today. 8-) And, as amy just said: "its not the fact that you had big equipment come in. its not the fact that you collect old equipment as if you were a wayward house for computers, or fulfilling a wish that you had more siblings or something.. its the fact that i had the driveway all nice and clean, and then I get woken up by this noise outside, 20 minutes later I look and there's this big BOX out in MY DRIVEWAY looking like we're harboring the Ark of the Covenant or something." Well, I cant argue with that, certainly not on her birthday. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jul 29 16:19:34 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: OOPS Message-ID: <20010729161934.J19092@mrbill.net> Sorry, that reply was supposed to go to a *different* list (sun-rescue). My mistake. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Sun Jul 29 16:29:30 2001 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: [rescue] Free: DEC/PDP & Sun Stuff In-Reply-To: <20010729155954.Y19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <24883469.3205416570@[172.18.40.4]> --On Sunday, July 29, 2001 3:59 PM -0500 Bill Bradford wrote: > PDP stuff still left: > Two RX01 dual-8" floppy drives. David W. didnt have enough room > in his van after the 11/60 and other stuff was loaded, so they're > first-come, first-serve. If it helps, I almost certainly have a pair of RXV11s that I can let whoever?takes these have for the cost of shipping. Just let me know. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Milton S. Eisenhower Library The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 29 16:32:25 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: M2333 and M2382 drive questions In-Reply-To: M2333 and M2382 drive questions (R. D. Davis) References: Message-ID: <15204.33001.224912.196461@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 29, R. D. Davis wrote: > Yesterday, thanks to Tim Shoppa, I collected some 8" SMD drives: a > couple of Fujitsu M2333 (337MB) and M2382 (1GB each!) drives and an > Emulex SC03 controller. Its my understanding that I might not be able > to use these large drives with an SCO2 or SC03 controller, so, I'm > wondering what I need in order to use them with a PDP-11/73. If you can find one, an Emulex QD32 or QD33 would be perfect for that application. And very fast. If you happen to get ahold of either, I have docs. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From tony.eros at machm.org Sun Jul 29 16:37:49 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: BRATS hamfest... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729173432.0339b640@mail.njd.concentric.com> I had thought about driving down to Timonium for the BRATS hamfest this morning, but I broke my ankle last week and it wasn't up to the drive. (Couldn't make it to VCF East, either -- grr...) Sounds like I didn't miss anything at BRATS, though. -- Tony At 03:06 PM 7/29/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Well, I got up at 5am to go to this. Got there >at 6 when the gates opened. Attendance was light, >probably due to the impending rain. There was no >rain at 6 and there were about 30 tailgaters. Not >much of vintage interest, some Sun boxes here and >there, a few old Macs and one guy with a couple of >Atari boxes. > >Got what I thought was a good deal, 4 2Gig wide SCSI >drives for $3 each. Unfortunately, now that I've got >them home, I see that they are HVD. Does anyone have >a PCI HVD SCSI controller that they might part with >for a reasonable fee? > >Anyway, the rains came at about 7:15, some tarps and >tents popped up, but a lot of guys just packed up at >that point. Peeked inside the indoor space, which >was to open at 8, looked like a run of the mill clone >show with some radio vendors thrown in... so I called >it a day. Oh well... From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Jul 29 16:41:57 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: M2333 and M2382 drive questions Message-ID: <010729174157.20200239@trailing-edge.com> >Yesterday, thanks to Tim Shoppa, I collected some 8" SMD drives: a >couple of Fujitsu M2333 (337MB) and M2382 (1GB each!) drives and an >Emulex SC03 controller. Its my understanding that I might not be able >to use these large drives with an SCO2 or SC03 controller, so, I'm >wondering what I need in order to use them with a PDP-11/73. Bob - >From your description of your current SMD drive controller, it's probably an Emulex QD32 or QD33, in which case it ought to handle the newer M2333 and M2382 just fine. I think your first priority should be to figure out what you've currently got :-). The SC03 will handle a Fuji Eagle (with a few slight adjustments to take into account interleaving), but not anything with a faster data rate, unfortunately. Tim. From emu at ecubics.com Sun Jul 29 16:53:33 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: M2333 and M2382 drive questions References: Message-ID: <3B6485DD.9BF9619@ecubics.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Yesterday, thanks to Tim Shoppa, I collected some 8" SMD drives: a > couple of Fujitsu M2333 (337MB) and M2382 (1GB each!) drives and an > Emulex SC03 controller. Its my understanding that I might not be able > to use these large drives with an SCO2 or SC03 controller, so, I'm > wondering what I need in order to use them with a PDP-11/73. The Fujitsu M2333 should work on an Emulex QD32 Cheers & have fun, emanuel From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Sun Jul 29 16:54:59 2001 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: A/UX In-Reply-To: <200107280746.f6S7kj716799@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <24975476.3205418099@[172.18.40.4]> --On Saturday, July 28, 2001 2:46 AM -0500 Eric Dittman wrote: > I remember it being available at first on CD and tape, but I can't > remember if it was offered on floppy. I seem to remember that the V3.x > release was CD-only, but that could be my memory acting up. I remember > the V3.x beta I had was the first CDR I had seen in person. I don't think it was ever offered on floppy, but they did sell an HD80SC hard drive with A/UX pre-installed. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Milton S. Eisenhower Library The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From pechter at bg-tc-ppp938.monmouth.com Sun Jul 29 17:10:34 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp938.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: from Russ Blakeman at "Jul 29, 2001 10:41:07 am" Message-ID: <200107292210.f6TMAZM48037@bg-tc-ppp938.monmouth.com> > I think the IBM employees that become part of cuts are the ones that wear > the pantyhose over their heads - as they rob a local store for cash after > layoff. Nah that's Lucent folks in NJ. (ducks so his friends from bell labs don't find him as he runs away). Bill From pechter at bg-tc-ppp938.monmouth.com Sun Jul 29 17:11:55 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp938.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jul 29, 2001 11:31:29 am" Message-ID: <200107292211.f6TMBtt48049@bg-tc-ppp938.monmouth.com> > > On 29 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Then again, IBM employees are supposed to wear pantyhose as well. > > It's true! > > Hmmm, I wonder... does IBM have have any rules stating where employees > are supposed to wear them, or do the rules just state that one is to > wear them? There are multiple possibilities... over one's arms, head, > around one's shoulders, in one's sportscoat pocket in place of a > handkerchief, etc. Working at IBM must be rather interesting... the > more rules, the more poorly defined rules there usually are which one > can twist around to make the workplace environment more interesting. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. Actually, IBM in the '95 time frame seemed to have less rules and regs enforced than DEC did in the 80's. Dress down... no real employee orientation... seemed very very laid back to me in NJ. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jul 29 17:04:29 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: <3B638DDF.7F6C2615@idirect.com> References: <20010727183940.B8540-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010729170020.028b3ef0@pc> At 12:15 AM 7/29/01 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: >First, I was told that FedEx will often delay shipments if they >are found to be arriving too soon (1 day instead of 2 days) For a trade show, we'd carefully plan the arrival day for all our packages, so as to avoid extra "drayage" charges from the convention hall's union, who would charge $150 *per day* that anything had to be moved from the dock to your booth. Size made no difference. FedEx once delivered a single mailing tube one day early, and the union goons wanted $150 for me to get it out of hock. - John From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jul 29 17:11:56 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Back from Vacation - Interesting Tid Bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >They didn't invent "wardialing", but the term came to be after the movie >premiered, as people associated the act of dialing many thousands of >numbers in hopes of finding a carrier to explore with what David Lightman Huh, I remember it as using modems to rapidly redial busy numbers like for radio station contests. From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jul 29 18:04:33 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home References: Message-ID: <3B649681.F41CB64E@idirect.com> >R. D. Davis wrote: > >On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > > While I probably don't really understand someone who's goal is using the > > original hardware, on the other hand, I find that any software development > Hmmmm, this IS the classiccmp list isn't it? Jerome Fine replies: Thanks for your comment - I had a good laugh. Also with a bit of tongue in cheek, a reply ... Yep! It includes those nerds who need to hear the screech of a disk drive bearing gone bad (the RD53 whine is about the best) and the broken back achieved while lifting an RA81. It also includes those software nuts like myself who will work for a few months to reduce the size of a program that almost no one uses anymore or output an error message than can be understood to a user who does not exist. I will admit that on occasion, I do delight in using VERY OLD hardware. About 2 years ago, I needed to transfer some data to a real DECTape II on a real TU-58 tape drive. However, the FINAL goal was to connect the TU-58 external tape drive to a PC running the emulator for the PDP-11. I don't know if anyone still uses a real DEC TU-58, but it is still just as slow on a PDP-11/93 as it was on an LSI-11/2, so of course, it is no faster on a Pentium 166 MMX. In any case, I finally got the external TU-58 connected again first the the real PDP-11 and then to the PC on a COM2: port and copied the files. Then I was able to find a very old version of V 3.0B of RT-11 that was on a TU-58 tape that still worked. WOW!! After 2 minutes it actually booted RT-11. Worked just fine. Then, just to put the icing on the cake, I copied the files from a V5.04G of RT-11 (that I had enhanced to be Y2K compliant) to the TU-58 and was again able to boot RT-11 (after the customary 2 minutes). Now that was a thrill - running a 25 year old tape drive first with a 25 year old version of the RT-11 operating system on a Pentium 166 MMX (using the emulator of course), and second with a10 year old version of the RT-11 operating system which had been Y2K enhanced so that I could use dates after 1999. Actually, I think both the hardware and software goals that we have are crazy, but since we all seem to enjoy ourselves and I know of no law that is being broken that will need to be invoked to slowly lower us feet first into molten iron, it seems harmless enough. > > under an emulator is much more straight forward, much easier AND MUCH > > FASTER. > ...and emulators are very, very, boring; and, if run under M$-Windoze, > much less reliable and more likely to crash or lose data. The sound > of fans, the chatter and kerchunking of disk drives, the clicking > contactors when mains power is applied, the vacuum and whirring sounds > of a mag tape drive starting up, the blinking of lights, etc. are all > parts of the experience of using vintage computer systems. Aside from the fact that I seem to need to start the emulator from a boot or it runs of of memory, I find that M$-Windoze does not seem to interfere very much even though I dislike admitting that fact. Of course, I also can't run anything else at the same time. On the other hand, I use the same 1 GByte ESDI drives on the PC as on the real PDP-11, each with its own fan to keep it cool. And the front loading tape drive on the PDP-11 is too heavy by far (even heavier than an RL02 drive) to lift into the rack, so I will have to have someone help me take it to the curb. Plus I have not had an occasion to read a 9-track tape drive for the last 10 years since the TK50 became a viable distribution media - not that I would EVER consider the TK50 to be a successful backup drive/media - although a TK70 at 256 MBytes finally seems acceptable. > Aye Jerome, surely you don't want to be thought of as an > anti-classic-computer emulator loving weenie, do you? ;-) After all, > can it not be said that emulators are, for the most part, preferred by > weenies who can't lift a PDP-11/44 PSU and are afraid of being shocked > by one, who can't pop a tall cabinet into the back of a real, not one > of those little foreign match-box size, station station wagons to haul > it home, who don't know a screwdriver from an SMD drive cable, or who > can't even figure out how to disassemble and reassemble a couple of > linked paperclips? Well, when you get to be my age (I just turned 63), you may sing a different tune. This weekend, I just finished nursing a very sore back into a reasonable disposition after working with a BA23 (NOTE: not the BA123 just the BA23) system. I had a bad DRV11 (M7941) module that stopped the system from booting. My first impression was that the PSU might be gone, so I transferred just the memory to a different BA23 that I hoped was working. That worked with an M8090, so I added a few more boards including the disk drive. When all that worked, I transferred back to the original BA23 and it still worked. So I swapped in the M8192 and the boot ROM board and finally the last 4 dual boards which ended up crashing the system again. Took out the last 4 dual boards at which point it was OK and started adding them one at a time. Viola!!! One board to go - the M7941 and it started crashing again. Out and replace with an M9047 - bus grant card - AND it works!!!!!! FINALLY!!!! Anyone have a spare M7941 they want to sell? I also will need those zero ohm resistors set to a non-standard CSR/VECTOR!! Plus, I also would like to buy a TU-58 external tape drive - does anyone want to swap a dozen tapes for an external TU-58 tape drive? I will also consider buying it. I also will consider buying a single 4 MByte PMI memory board made by Christlen. Better still, maybe an 11/93 or an M100 from Mentec. I am hoping to cure my 7 quad board problem in the BA123 box with the ESDI hard disk drives. If I can put 8 quad boards into a BA23, then that will mean that it is the BA123 that is bad. So back to swapping boards again. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jul 29 18:16:19 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Free: DEC/PDP & Sun Stuff References: <20010729155954.Y19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B649943.B489B018@idirect.com> >Bill Bradford wrote: > FREE STUFF! > For pickup (only) in Austin, TX. I'm available any night of the > week after 6pm. > PDP stuff still left: > Two RX01 dual-8" floppy drives. David W. didnt have enough room > in his van after the 11/60 and other stuff was loaded, so they're > first-come, first-serve. Jerome Fine replies: I am fairly sure I have the controller around somewhere - don't know if it works, however. Don't forget I am in Toronto, so the shipping may be higher. But the controller is free. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 29 18:37:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Way OT: vacuum pumps Message-ID: <15204.40486.944983.718110@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hi folks. Apologies for the way off-topic message, but this is the gang with the most varied experience that I can think of. Does anyone know anything about, or have docs for, a Varian M200 oil diffusion pump? Specifically, I need to know if there's a way to check the oil level without removing the pump from the vacuum chamber. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Jul 29 19:06:53 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010728110120.00a4c100@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <004801c1188b$8ac56e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: "ClassiComp" Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 12:32 AM Subject: OT: Humor Moving to Florida -- VERY FUNNY!!! > For any of you that wanted to know what's it's like to live in Florida! Or most of Australia. LOL. Only 102? Wimp. LOL. Geoff in Oz From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jul 29 20:10:37 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Mounting a SCSI Device in a BA-123 References: Message-ID: <3B64B40D.9CC120F3@idirect.com> >Terry Murphy wrote: > Has anybody ever mounted a SCSI device in a BA-123? Jerome Fine replies: Yes. And in a BA23 as well. In fact, the BA23 with the bad DRV11 has a CQD 220/TM with a 3.5" SCSI drive and a Zip 100 MByte Iomega drive to handle removable media. Both drives are mounted on the standard 5 1/4" black plastic sleds that used to hold an RD53 and an RX50. The 3.5" drive is held in place using two angle brackets (90 degrees) that attach to the sled and the drive. The Iomega Zip drive came with its own 5 1/4" adapter kit (it was a so-called SCSI Insider). The cable used was a standard (about) 20" PC SCSI with three 50 pin headers. There is JUST enough length between the CQD220/TM and the hard drive (with about 0.1 mm to spare) to be able to connect the two. And the extra length between the hard drive and the Zip drive also JUST fits (with about 0.5 mm to spare). The 50 pin cable comes through under the plate that allows for a TK50 cable. > 1. I tried to install a standard half-height 3.5" SCSI drive into a > BA-123 system (MicroVAX II). Basically, I bought a little 3.5"->5.25" > adapter, and then screwed the adaptor into the sliding base where an old > RD-54 lived. I found the solution unsatisfactory; the adaptor's screw > holes did not match up with the sliding base, and it generally feels > fragile. Is there a better way? I am envisioning some sort of "cage" which > has the form factor of a full-height 5.25" drive, with mount points for a > 3.5" drive (or two). Does such a beast exist? While I agree that the DEC standard black plastic sleds are not easily adapted, I was able to find a number of the angle brackets when I needed them. If needed, they are just thin metal brackets bent at 90 degrees with one hole as an anchor to hold the drive on each side and the sled. More is unnecessary since the 3.5" drives are not heavy like the 5 1/4" drives. > 2. Has anybody ever installed a half-height internal CD-ROM (or tape > drive) in a BA-123 system? This would be really sweet (sure beats an > external one!), but would it mount nicely, and would it be possible to > cover up the half which isn't being used with a nice faceplate? You can buy such plates for for cosmetic reasons, but I really don't find it necessary for actual use. As for myself, I know that Zane has found a SCSI CD-ROM which works on the actual PDP-11, but I have not made the effort to find one. Does anyone have one for sale? I solved my problem with a couple of Sony SMO S501 magneto optical disk drives that are erasable and hole 300 MBytes per each side of the cartridge. With one drive on the PDP-11 and one drive on the PC, I can transfer up to 300 MBytes at a time between the two systems. > 3. Is there a decent internal SCSI cable which can be used in a BA-123? I > only have a couple of boards in the system, so my SCSI controller is all > the way in the front of the backplane (back of the system), far from the > disks, and just barely reaches the disks. Is it possible to get one with > some slack, and still have several disk connectors? The cable for the BA23 does not seem any shorter. So shifting to that box probably will not help. If you can find a bunch of M9047 bus grant cards, that would allow you to move the host adapter all the way to the back. PLUS, I suspect that if you are not using the ABCD aspects of the first 4 slots in the BA123 (unlikely unless you have a uVAX II and must do so because the memory requires the ABCD, then with a PDP-11, it is not necessary to use the ABCD slots for the CPU unless you are using PMI memory. Also, I don't think it is hard to make a longer SCSI cable. I have several that have the 50 pin header at one end and a 50 pin centronics at the other that are over 4 feet long. I just add as many 50 pin headers as needed to accommodate any internal drives. But I only have one extra, so if I sold it, I would charge what it would cost me in parts to replace it. Or if you sent me double the 50 pin headers needed and one 50 pin centronics, I could make one up for you. Better yet, make one for yourself with the parts and an ordinary vice (large - at least 2.5" heads to tighten on the parts) and a magnifying glass to look closely at the alignment before you tighten the vice. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 29 21:11:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <366.611T2600T1916169optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>And while we're at it, there's an Oberon OS distribution for just about >>>every conveivable platform. >How complete are the Oberon distro's though. Something I read recently led >me to believe that you need to buy some high priced addon to get everything. I've only played withit ever so briefly, can't tell. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 29 21:00:41 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1679.611T2050T1805751optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >On 29 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Then again, IBM employees are supposed to wear pantyhose as well. >> It's true! >Hmmm, I wonder... does IBM have have any rules stating where employees >are supposed to wear them, or do the rules just state that one is to >wear them? There are multiple possibilities... over one's arms, head, >around one's shoulders, in one's sportscoat pocket in place of a >handkerchief, etc. Working at IBM must be rather interesting... the >more rules, the more poorly defined rules there usually are which one >can twist around to make the workplace environment more interesting. I got it from that lousy documentary series from a few years back about the rise of the personal computer. The kind which only focuses on IBm, Bill Gates and Apple. Anyway, there was a spot with an old IBM employee telling an anecdote about when he was green at the company, wandering down a corridor, impeccably dressed, when he encounters an older employee who proceeds to lift his trousers' leg, scolding him for not wearing pantyhose. I could get the terminology wrong, though. Perhaps is pantyhose just for women? The kind I'm referring to is the kind of ribbons used to keep men's socks high. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "LART is an acronym for Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool, and is generally a piece of heavy hard material such as a cricket or baseball bat, hunk of pipe, or 2x4 for the fine tuning of a luser's atitude. This is a noun that can be used as a verb. If I say I lart someone, I mean that I am performing delicate tuning procedures upon that persons head utilizing a LART. An ICBM would be considered an agressive LART." From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 29 21:16:03 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <200107290423.VAA08406@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <1981.611T150T1964035optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> >MacOS X. I'm a believer. First Unix that manages to avoid looking like >> >Unix >> >(except if you want it to). I've never seen an X windows manager that did >> >any good other than making the Unix metaphor just pretty, not less >> >complicated. OS X, on the other hand, does an excellent job at hiding it >> >away from the casual user, but not making it ridiculously difficult for >> >people to get their hands dirty if they want. >> >> Personally, I think there's too much UNIX in OSX. They not only took the >> kernel, but the entire environment as well. >You have in fact used it? Or did you just see it in a shop and pass judgement >on it at long range? I'll go for number two, Cameron. >When you start up OS X, you aren't confronted with arcane pathnames or >/dev/thisnthat, or anything like what you'd get from X. You don't start off >with an Xterm, a spartan file manager and a shell prompt; you get the dock >and desktop icons. It looks like a futuristic, glitzy Mac, not like a window >manager. That's what it's supposed to do. Might I add that I find the interface apalling? >The environment is there, yes, but it's well hidden. If you go to Terminal, >you get a real live tcsh, and then the Unix pedigree becomes apparent when >you start digging around in the filesystem with the usual suspects. But >you don't need to do any of this because the Finder keeps the old MacOS >conventions as a veneer. You need no Unix experience to use it, and there are >people around here who have none, but still love it. This is not true of Red >Hat, or Mandrake, or any of the other "Unix for dummies" dists despite what >they trumpet. The environment and the fact it's Unix is thrown in your face >with those -- but not here. You get the Unix environment in OS X when you ask >for it, but not before. IOW, only when you want to use the shell and do lower-level system management. That's too much UNIX for me, thank you. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 29 21:13:16 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010729170020.028b3ef0@pc> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > Size made no difference. FedEx once delivered a single > mailing tube one day early, and the union goons wanted > $150 for me to get it out of hock. It is interesting how Greyhound Exposition Services (etc.) could get people to blame the UNION for the COMPANY's draconian charges, even for the ones where the workers would get none of it. It worked so good to blame the UNION when overcharging for labor, that they pushed the concept of "the union" even for their storage charges, electricity, rental rates, etc. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Jul 29 21:14:06 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Back from Vacation - Interesting Tid Bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >They didn't invent "wardialing", but the term came to be after the movie > >premiered, as people associated the act of dialing many thousands of > >numbers in hopes of finding a carrier to explore with what David Lightman > Huh, I remember it as using modems to rapidly redial busy numbers like for > radio station contests. And when do y'all think that the "Demon Dialer" came out? From allain at panix.com Sun Jul 29 21:13:54 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: VCF East References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010729173432.0339b640@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <006101c1189d$48808980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> At VCF east... Sellam and team kept us all as busy as a one fingered man in a Boot Loader Flicking contest. I hope to have a thorogh report in a day or two. Now sleep. Happy. John A. From optimus at canit.se Sun Jul 29 22:09:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Graphical WWW browser for MSX(!) Message-ID: <815.611T1050T2494367optimus@canit.se> Snapped this up from http://www.msx.org/ : ----8<----- Hi, MSXers, For those who dont believe, for those who laugh, for those who become terrified, finally, after a long time, Im announcing: FUDEBROWZER the graphical MSX web-browser Of course, this state-of-the-art piece of code only works with a multitask, multiuser, UNIX-like and TCP/IP capable operating system (in other words, only with UZIX). Say goodbye to "Internet Offline". Now its really "Internet Online". Further information, downloads, screenshots, source-code and explanations you find on UZIX page, section "WWW", at: http://uzix.msx.org See ya, Adriano Camargo Rodrigues da Cunha -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From dittman at dittman.net Sun Jul 29 21:25:47 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Denver area places Message-ID: <200107300225.f6U2PlE30531@narnia.int.dittman.net> I'm in Denver for the week. Are there any good sources for classic computers (esp. DEC)? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vance at ikickass.org Sun Jul 29 21:25:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: <1679.611T2050T1805751optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Those are garters, and were required. Now we're only required to wear the three-piece when meeting clients. Peace... Sridhar On 30 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > women? The kind I'm referring to is the kind of ribbons used to keep men's > socks high. From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 29 22:18:30 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > Those are garters, and were required. Now we're only required to wear the > three-piece when meeting clients. Hmmm... do they tell you _how_ you have to wear the three-piece suit? Lots of possibilities for this come to mind... make a kilt out of the jacket, partially separate the pants and wear them as shirt sleeves, then wear your undershirt over the vest. Hey, you'd not be violating company policy! ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 29 22:27:57 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: OT: Microsoft worm rumored to halt the internet Message-ID: Tonight I heard something interesting on the radio: there's a new Micro$oft worm loose---no, I'm not referring to {\em the} Microsoft worm, Bill Gate$, but to a worm that's supposed to wreak havoc with most Microsoft systems connected to the 'net by Tuesday. Supposedly the Nut^H^H^HWhite House and the Pentagon are on alert over this. ROFL! This should finally convince people to stop using Microsoft products, although I'll bet it won't, alas. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Jul 29 22:52:39 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: <1679.611T2050T1805751optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010729205206.02f70b90@mail.zipcon.net> At 03:00 AM 7/30/01 +0100, you wrote: >R. D. Davis skrev: >Anyway, there was a spot with an old IBM employee telling an anecdote about >when he was green at the company, wandering down a corridor, impeccably >dressed, when he encounters an older employee who proceeds to lift his >trousers' leg, scolding him for not wearing pantyhose. >I could get the terminology wrong, though. Perhaps is pantyhose just for >women? The kind I'm referring to is the kind of ribbons used to keep men's >socks high. I believe the word you're looking for is Garter? From rdd at smart.net Sun Jul 29 23:07:05 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: M2333 and M2382 drive questions In-Reply-To: <010729174157.20200239@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > >From your description of your current SMD drive controller, it's probably > an Emulex QD32 or QD33, in which case it ought to handle the newer M2333 Alas, it is not one of those. What I have in my 11/73 is an SC02/C for RK06 amd RK07 emulation. > and M2382 just fine. I think your first priority should be to figure > out what you've currently got :-). See above... > The SC03 will handle a Fuji Eagle (with a few slight adjustments to take > into account interleaving), but not anything with a faster data rate, > unfortunately. Ok, since it won't work with my drives, what I really need to do at this point I suppose is to look for a Fujitsu Eagle. :-) I wonder if my CDC 9" drive is slow enough for the SC03. Alas, it's not easily rack-mountable. Anyway, now to figure out a way to get other two trays of these drives mounted near the top of my 11/73's rack... hopefully three trays of these drives, and an PDP-8/e on top of the rack, won't make this too top-heavy. Perhaps I should move the CPU and expansion chasis, or RX02 drives, to the top position in the rack, and the six 8" SMD drives to the bottom of the rack, leaving the TS05 in the middle of the rack. Any thoughts on this? By the way, does anyone know of any sources for a cheap Q-bus RL02 controller as well as a cheap QD32 or QD33? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Jul 29 22:51:32 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Example of Fedex Intl shipping In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010729170020.028b3ef0@pc> Message-ID: That's why the last company I worked for had a single person go ahead of everything and had a stoage unit setup that he/she would store things until the setup day - no delivery direct to the convention center at all so no idiotic charges. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust -> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 5:04 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Example of Fedex Intl shipping -> -> -> At 12:15 AM 7/29/01 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: -> >First, I was told that FedEx will often delay shipments if they -> >are found to be arriving too soon (1 day instead of 2 days) -> -> For a trade show, we'd carefully plan the arrival day for -> all our packages, so as to avoid extra "drayage" charges from -> the convention hall's union, who would charge $150 *per day* -> that anything had to be moved from the dock to your booth. -> -> Size made no difference. FedEx once delivered a single -> mailing tube one day early, and the union goons wanted -> $150 for me to get it out of hock. -> -> - John -> From red at bears.org Sun Jul 29 23:20:05 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: OT: Microsoft worm rumored to halt the internet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Micro$oft worm loose---no, I'm not referring to {\em the} Microsoft > worm, Bill Gate$, but to a worm that's supposed to wreak havoc with ^ Come on, if you're going to go to the effort of using LaTeX in an email message, you might as well do it properly. (; ok r. From ljcst18+ at pitt.edu Sun Jul 29 23:36:40 2001 From: ljcst18+ at pitt.edu (Lucas J Cashdollar) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer Message-ID: Hello All, I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. Luke From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 29 23:39:05 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <20010728200107.Q19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010730043905.91225.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > Actually, as far as I can tell, OS X is a revamped NeXTStep. > > Didnt anybody else laugh with glee (to themselves) when Apple > releasd the G4 cube? > > "Wait a minute, i've seen this before.." Except black is cooler than clear anyday. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 30 00:04:07 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010729205206.02f70b90@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Geoff Reed wrote and misquoted: > At 03:00 AM 7/30/01 +0100, you wrote: > >R. D. Davis skrev: > >Anyway, there was a spot with an old IBM employee telling an anecdote about > >when he was green at the company, wandering down a corridor, impeccably > >dressed, when he encounters an older employee who proceeds to lift his > >trousers' leg, scolding him for not wearing pantyhose. [...] Kindly note that I did not write the above quoted text. Please fix your quoting mechanism. RDD -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 29 23:52:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Seeking instructions for setting up a MAG MX17 monitor In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010727205326.030aeb20@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20010730045222.85198.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Geoff Reed wrote: > check out http://www.maginnovision.com there may be some info there, as > well as a phone # for you to call :) This thing is too old for their website. I went there. All I could get from the automated service webthingy was that it "requires service". If someone else has seen something like a page of PDF files that I never located, I'd love to hear about it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 30 00:11:13 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: OT: Microsoft worm rumored to halt the internet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Micro$oft worm loose---no, I'm not referring to {\em the} Microsoft > > worm, Bill Gate$, but to a worm that's supposed to wreak havoc with > ^ > Come on, if you're going to go to the effort of using LaTeX in an email > message, you might as well do it properly. (; Micro\$oft worm loose---no, I'm not referring to {\em the} Microsoft worm, Bill Gate\$, but to a worm that's supposed to wreak havoc with Ok, I've fixed the errors. Thanks. ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 29 23:54:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: <200107281151.f6SBpqM31882@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010730045412.85324.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > And before that a ton of 4116's... > > MS750 was the same as MK11 memory for the 11/70. > (Actually, I thought the MK was originally designed for the 11/74). I have a couple of 11/70s here, each with 4Mb memory cabinets in an attached rack. As far as I can tell, it's 16 x 256Kb boards. Was there a memory controller for the /70 that could handle 1Mb boards? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Jul 29 23:52:49 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: EIA / telco "standards" for switch/datacenters? Message-ID: <20010729235249.A19092@mrbill.net> Can anybody point me to a "standards" document for things such as telco/datacenter wiring 'best practices', EIA standards, etc? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 29 23:56:08 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: US Tour In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010730045608.15825.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > >there. I've seen an Apple ][ LCD screen for sale there ($200), I bought > > Are people still hot for those old IIc LCD screens? I am pretty sure I have > recently run across a source for them around $60 or so. I wouldn't mind one (I have a IIc and a IIc+), but it's on the long-term search list for me, not the hot list. I'd consider buying one in that price range (I didn't consider one for $200 ;-) -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Jul 29 23:59:54 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010730045954.92790.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > Hello All, > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. Straight-8 - 1964. Needs the printer's ink cleaned off of it and the capacitors conditioned before I fire it up. Came with a DF-32 (and DS-32) disk system and a DEC PA-60 (possibly some kind of R-series logic controller for the printing mechanism - have no docs on it). IBM 026 card punch - 195?. Not a computer, but a computing device. Has tubes. Passed the smoke test; needs cleaned, lubed and adjusted. I have the basic docs that were in the the pedestal. Could use advice on how to service it. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 29 23:59:20 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: OT: Microsoft worm rumored to halt the internet In-Reply-To: Re: OT: Microsoft worm rumored to halt the internet (R. D. Davis) References: Message-ID: <15204.59816.754378.188128@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 30, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Micro$oft worm loose---no, I'm not referring to {\em the} Microsoft > > > worm, Bill Gate$, but to a worm that's supposed to wreak havoc with > > ^ > > Come on, if you're going to go to the effort of using LaTeX in an email > > message, you might as well do it properly. (; > > Micro\$oft worm loose---no, I'm not referring to {\em the} Microsoft > worm, Bill Gate\$, but to a worm that's supposed to wreak havoc with > > Ok, I've fixed the errors. Thanks. ;-) Geeks. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jul 29 23:59:57 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: Re: VAX 11/750 info (Ethan Dicks) References: <200107281151.f6SBpqM31882@bg-tc-ppp1689.monmouth.com> <20010730045412.85324.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15204.59853.225566.17379@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 29, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > And before that a ton of 4116's... > > > > MS750 was the same as MK11 memory for the 11/70. > > (Actually, I thought the MK was originally designed for the 11/74). > > I have a couple of 11/70s here, each with 4Mb memory cabinets in an > attached rack. As far as I can tell, it's 16 x 256Kb boards. Was > there a memory controller for the /70 that could handle 1Mb boards? D-d-d-dddDRROOOOOLLL!! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 30 00:04:26 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010730050426.88449.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > At one time I'd have suggested asking a local radio amateur to fit them. > But it appears that many radio amateurs these days don't own soldering > irons or have a clue as to what goes on inside the transceiver. Ack! That'd be like a Ham who didn't know Morse Code... wait. Nevermind. -ethan N8TVD (tech w/code) ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 00:06:14 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Presently I guess my older units would be the Commodore 64,128, 128D and IBM 5150 PC - I have traded and sold many of my older units for lack of room and soon will be offloading more to finance my newest thrill - ham radio. I'll still keep the oldies around, just not as many or as old. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lucas J Cashdollar -> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 11:37 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Whats you oldest computer -> -> -> Hello All, -> -> I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you -> own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and -> the oldest -> one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. -> -> Luke -> -> -> -> -> From red at bears.org Mon Jul 30 00:07:05 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:13 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you own. I've got an original DG Nova, circa 1968, and a Teletype ASR35 which is probably older. Both are un-restored but basically complete. After that, I'm not sure. I think it's somewhere around 1977, with the TRS-80 (4k, level 1, no keypad... eat your heart out Enrico Tedeschi), or possibly the H89 or Northstar Advantage. ok r. From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Jul 30 00:23:15 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 08:27:46PM -0700 References: <004101c1169d$31de18c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <420.609T1600T9795385optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010729222315.A14894@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sat, Jul 28, 2001 at 08:27:46PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >And while we're at it, there's an Oberon OS distribution for just about > >>every conveivable platform. > > How complete are the Oberon distro's though. Something I read recently led > me to believe that you need to buy some high priced addon to get everything. Oberon is a family of languages, compilers, and OSs. It started out at the ETH in Zurich, Switzerland, as one compiler, language, and OS, running on one workstation (the Ceres, developed at the ETH and using NS320xx CPUs). Even before it left Zurich it began to diverge. The Ceres became the Ceres-2 and then the Ceres-3. People did all kinds of research projects, new compilers, ports to off-the-shelf hardware, etc. In other words, IMHO it was anarchy and no one was keeping track of all the changes! Versions 1 and 2 of the system ran on the Ceres (and possibly on a few other platforms). Version 3 added a new GUI (called Gadgets) and changed its name to "System 3". Version 4 ignored Gadgets but made some other changes. System 3 and V4 are both in use today. There are also some commercial offshoots (Component Pascal, BlackBox Oberon, etc.) If you want an _environment_ that runs on top of a commercial OS, you have many choices: - MacOS, Linux, Windows, UNIX workstations - 680x0, PowerPC, x86, etc. - System 3 or Version 4 (maybe Version 2 on the workstations) - generally, full source code available If you want a true _operating system_, you have only one choice AFAIK: - Native Oberon (maintained by ETH Zurich) - x86 - System 3 - most of the source code available See http://www.math.tau.ac.il/~guy/Oberon.html http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Programming_Languages/Oberon/ news:comp.lang.oberon -- Derek From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 30 00:24:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: from "Lucas J Cashdollar" at Jul 30, 2001 12:36:40 AM Message-ID: <200107300524.f6U5O1i30801@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. A Burroughs E6000. I think it was released in 1967. It won't be mine forever, though, as someone here on the list will one day be picking it up if all goes well (and they know who they are). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jul 30 00:49:09 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010729224844.032daeb0@209.185.79.193> At 12:36 AM 7/30/01 -0400, you wrote: > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you >own. PDP-5, Digital 1963. From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 30 00:25:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Back from Vacation - Interesting Tid Bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >They didn't invent "wardialing", but the term came to be after the movie > >premiered, as people associated the act of dialing many thousands of > >numbers in hopes of finding a carrier to explore with what David Lightman > > Huh, I remember it as using modems to rapidly redial busy numbers like for > radio station contests. Nope. Similar concept, different purpose. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Jul 30 03:11:34 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: ; from ljcst18+@pitt.edu on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 12:36:40AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010730011134.A500@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 12:36:40AM -0400, Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > Hello All, > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. > > Luke A Comptometer (1911 is the last date on the metal patent label, but I don't know when the unit was actually made) follosed by a Marchant from 1940. OK, they're not electronic, binary, or programmable, buut they are digital and they do compute. :) -- Derek From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 03:24:01 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: <20010727214026.64540.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> Message-ID: <3B6535C1.27339.F98FFE2@localhost> > > Since I will spend the next 7 weeks in the US, on a > > cross coutry tour, starting in Baltimore in about a > > week (sorry, due circumstances I will miss VCF East > > by 5 days :(), I'd love to hear some hints about > > places to visit. The rough schedule will touch > > MD, NY, CT, RI, PA, OH, IN, IL, KA, CO, WY, MT, ID, > > WA, OR, CA - or so. > > Any Ham fests, swap meets, etc ? > Do you know when you will be in Ohio? I still have the Farm and I'm happy to > extend my hospitality to you again if I'm around (got some vacation coming up > next month). Well, the intended schedule says something like Ohio around August 12th to 15th ... just I won't trust it a lot - my Dreirad may change this schedule at any time :) Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jul 30 04:00:10 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706608A@exc-reo1> If you look at (almost?) any document produced by Digital in PostScript format, somewhere near the beginning you should find the part that does the Digital logo. Usually there is a long comment describing who designed it, when it was done and how it should (and should not) be used. At some late stage in its life, Digital decided to revamp the logo. For a mere $500K (or thereabouts IIRC) a consultancy recommended some major changes. The round dot is the most noticeable. For $400K I would have been happy to provide equally valuable advice ... as usual I was in the wrong place at the wrong time :-) Antonio From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 04:44:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you >own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest >one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. It would seem that 1978 is currently some kind of barrier I've yet to go below for a system, as a number of systems I have date from that year, even if they were introduced earlier: SOL-20, VIM-1, PET 2001, TRS-80 Model I and Apple II+. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com Mon Jul 30 05:03:16 2001 From: Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: VMS setup Message-ID: I'm looking around for a VMS setup at the moment, but space is tight(as always!). Can anyone offer suggestions for a smallish (desktop/under desk) machine that's suitable for running VMS on? My only experience with VMS is 10+ years ago, version 4.something I think. It ran on an 11/780 cluster, kind of out of my league :-) Any suggestions, pointers to websites etc? TIA Al. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 30 05:23:56 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: VMS setup In-Reply-To: VMS setup (Alan Pearson) References: Message-ID: <15205.13756.136825.733135@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 30, Alan Pearson wrote: > I'm looking around for a VMS setup at the moment, but space is tight(as > always!). Can anyone offer suggestions for a smallish (desktop/under desk) > machine that's suitable for running VMS on? My only experience with VMS is > 10+ years ago, version 4.something I think. It ran on an 11/780 cluster, > kind of out of my league :-) Any suggestions, pointers to websites etc? The VAXstation-3100 family make nice desktop VMS machines. They're quite affordable, even on eBay. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From quapla at xs4all.nl Mon Jul 30 05:38:39 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (quapla@xs4all.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4890.212.153.190.3.996489519.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> That would be my PDP 11/35 with a (working) ASR-33. I used to have a Comptometer from around the mid fifties, but I did give that away a year ago. Talking about the ASR, anybody intrested in a puncher, a reader or a printing mechanism (without printing drum, motor and transmission sprockets)? Would prefer to swap for Unibus stuff. Ed. > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the > oldest one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 05:53:01 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system (was: building a PDP11...) In-Reply-To: <604.609T2400T9725897optimus@canit.se> References: <20010727011322.N6628-100000@localhost> Message-ID: <3B6558AD.30276.10216CA1@localhost> > >One of my crazy ideas is how to solve the internationalization problem. > >Use extended ASCII or some now 8-bit-wided character set, and declare > >English to be the official international language of the platform. Screw > >this Unicode crap. > Great idea, Geoff. Oh, wait, there is already such a system... I think it > starts with a U, the there's an X in the back... And to make it worse, they introduced dozends of 8 Bit codes ... > I welcome Unicode. Everyone should, since it would solve this > internationalisation problem. Jep. Unicode is, for most circumstances a real relif. Even when you still do 8 Bit systems (8 Bit character sets) it will help a lot - for example we can't convert our application to 16 Bit characters, since on the /370 part this would require more than a few lines of code. On the other hand we had to support different code sets in different installations (from Arabic and Cyrillic to Greek and Turkish and of course the funny French/ Spanisch accented caracters) while still manage a common code base and online data exchange. Unicode did give us a good base to define our codesets as subsets and to define interchange rules. Back to File Name Translation: does someone remember the name translations GSOS 6 on the Apple did when reading DOS or ProDOS Files ? AFAIR in DOS/ProDOS any character was allowed in the file name. Gruss H. BTW: the 9900 looks like a great Unicode machine - eventualy one should drop all this unnecersary byte operation :) -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1515.monmouth.com Mon Jul 30 06:02:08 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1515.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 info In-Reply-To: <20010730045412.85324.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Jul 29, 2001 09:54:12 pm" Message-ID: <200107301102.f6UB28w51545@bg-tc-ppp1515.monmouth.com> > > --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > And before that a ton of 4116's... > > > > MS750 was the same as MK11 memory for the 11/70. > > (Actually, I thought the MK was originally designed for the 11/74). > > I have a couple of 11/70s here, each with 4Mb memory cabinets in an > attached rack. As far as I can tell, it's 16 x 256Kb boards. Was > there a memory controller for the /70 that could handle 1Mb boards? > > -ethan Not as far as I know... --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 06:14:52 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD371513F9@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Hello All, > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. Processor Technology SOL, built by me, 1976 through 1978 (it was usable by sometime in 1977). -dq From stefan at softhome.net Mon Jul 30 06:19:57 2001 From: stefan at softhome.net (Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: References: < Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730131333.0238e010@145.218.23.191> Hmmm well mine is probably a small IBM Manual punchcard machine. This is a real desktop model. I am not 100% sure from what year it is, but the patent on it states 1915 or 1919!! You can see a picture of it at http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/total/ibmpunch.jpg It still works perfectly. I also have similar machines from Bull, two P80's from 1940. There is a picture at http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/cpics/bullp80.jpg They also have this picture on the "Bull computer History" page, but its one of my machines :) (see http://perso.club-internet.fr/febcm/english/bull_computer_index.htm) grtz, Stefan. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 07:02:01 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: altair 8800 In-Reply-To: <200107280526.AAA18069@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3B6568D9.25917.10609573@localhost> > A friend is getting one from his father, who got it around the end of > 1975. He asked me about sources for manuals and documentation, plus > sources for boards to upgrade the system. Further questioning revealed > that he wont get the unit until he travels back to visit the parents, :)) Well, since I will visit various places during the next 7 weeks, I may offer my help to pick it up for free !... Am I a nice guy ? Ciao Hans -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jul 30 07:07:51 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Ethernet -- thicknet and thinnet before 10BaseT Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706608B@exc-reo1> > I'm wondering how long it is before DECnet and Appletalk fail to work > on some modern networks because of the smart switches screwing up. > Nowadays it almost seems they expect everything to be all TCP/IP. I've seen it happen already (although that was an 802.3 vs Ethernet II issue, and the later rev of the h/w was fixed). But you are right, noone tests against anything other than IP(v4) and noone designs new protocols that easily accomodate anything that is not IP. Antonio From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 30 07:24:58 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: building a PDP11 from the things you find at home In-Reply-To: <20010730043905.91225.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Especially black with heatsinks 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Bill Bradford wrote: > > Actually, as far as I can tell, OS X is a revamped NeXTStep. > > > > Didnt anybody else laugh with glee (to themselves) when Apple > > releasd the G4 cube? > > > > "Wait a minute, i've seen this before.." > > Except black is cooler than clear anyday. > > -ethan > > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 30 07:28:41 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010729224844.032daeb0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: Does it work, Chuck? Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 12:36 AM 7/30/01 -0400, you wrote: > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > >own. > > PDP-5, Digital 1963. > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 07:46:02 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: <540.593T950T1914191optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <3B65732A.3940.1088E40E@localhost> > >Then there is the fact that in Europe you can still aparently buy new TOS > >based systems. > Oh yes. If only I had some 5000 EUR to spare... Shure that we're talking about the same system ? IIRC it's something like 1500 Mark (~760 EUR / 680 USD) for a working system in a PC Tower. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 07:46:02 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: <01Jul11.181819edt.119082@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: Message-ID: <3B65732A.30451.1088E3FE@localhost> > on 7/11/01 2:23 PM, Zane H. Healy at healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Then there is the fact that in Europe you can still aparently buy new TOS > > based systems. > Is C-Labs still manufacturing the Falcon or is this possibly one of the > other TOS machines, such as the Haides? I could have the name spelled wrong > there. I don't know about the actual state of the Falcon or Hades projects (it seams like as the Hades is still available), but the Milan is still in production available as 68040 or 060 Machine (Piggy Pack). chack out www.milan-computer.de - also available in English Last October th Milan 2 project was canceled when their production company for the cusom chips stoped bussines ... Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Jul 30 07:53:34 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BF8@MAIL10> Cameron: I can check tonight. I did a PDP logo by hand for my Web site using MS Paint. It's a sans serif font, but not Arial or Helvetica. It's not Lucida, either. Now, I don't know if this is the actual name of the font used (if you ask a DEC person), but it's indistinguishable. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 12:57 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? > Anybody know the font used in the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo, and > on the old pdp logos and rack header plates? The PDP plates and logos, dunno, but I'm pretty sure the digital logo was Futura or some analogue. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Gravity is a myth. The Earth just sucks. ----------------------------------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 08:16:35 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010729224844.032daeb0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: I wonder if my uncle's 1858 abacus from China counts as an old computer? I've had it since 1999 when he passed away and I was the lucky recipient. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chuck McManis -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 12:49 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Whats you oldest computer -> -> -> -> At 12:36 AM 7/30/01 -0400, you wrote: -> > I was just curious to know what was the oldest -> computer any of you -> >own. -> -> PDP-5, Digital 1963. -> -> From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Jul 30 09:01:53 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer References: Message-ID: Probably a Data General Nova 3, mid 70's. Seems to work, it has the blinkenlights, which do blink on powerup. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Master of all that Sucks" To: Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 8:28 AM Subject: Re: Whats you oldest computer > > Does it work, Chuck? > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > > At 12:36 AM 7/30/01 -0400, you wrote: > > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > > >own. > > > > PDP-5, Digital 1963. > > > > > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp471.monmouth.com Mon Jul 30 09:09:10 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp471.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BF8@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at "Jul 30, 2001 08:53:34 am" Message-ID: <200107301409.f6UE9Ac52707@bg-tc-ppp471.monmouth.com> > Cameron: > > I can check tonight. I did a PDP logo by hand for my Web site using > MS Paint. It's a sans serif font, but not Arial or Helvetica. It's not > Lucida, either. > > Now, I don't know if this is the actual name of the font used (if > you ask a DEC person), but it's indistinguishable. > > Rich IIRC -- it's a modified Helvetica... The original was pretty much a kind of wood-cut block thing that looked more like Futura then Helvetica. Then came the blue helvetica thing with the squarish dots on the i's. Then they paid big money for the maroon move and rounted i's. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From dittman at dittman.net Mon Jul 30 09:12:24 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: VMS setup In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Jul 30, 2001 06:23:56 AM Message-ID: <200107301412.f6UECOX31721@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I'm looking around for a VMS setup at the moment, but space is tight(as > > always!). Can anyone offer suggestions for a smallish (desktop/under desk) > > machine that's suitable for running VMS on? My only experience with VMS is > > 10+ years ago, version 4.something I think. It ran on an 11/780 cluster, > > kind of out of my league :-) Any suggestions, pointers to websites etc? > > The VAXstation-3100 family make nice desktop VMS machines. They're > quite affordable, even on eBay. If space is real tight, the VAXstation 4000/VLC would be a good choice, too. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 30 08:31:15 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system (was: building a PDP11...) In-Reply-To: <3B6558AD.30276.10216CA1@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Hans Franke wrote: > Back to File Name Translation: does someone remember the name > translations GSOS 6 on the Apple did when reading DOS or ProDOS Files > ? AFAIR in DOS/ProDOS any character was allowed in the file name. DOS allowed up to 30 character filenames with any characters save for the comma (which was used to delineate parameters) and maybe one or two other characters I'm forgetting. But even control characters were allowed (and these were used to "hide" files sometimes or confuse people trying to load them, since they didn't show up in the catalog). ProDOS only allowed 15 character filenames, alphanumeric and periods only. I never used GSOS but I assume it used a similar directory format. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Jul 30 09:30:04 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879C00@MAIL10> Bill: When I did my rendition of the logo, I used a stock TrueType Font. I just can't remember the name right now. It's not a base Windows font and it didn't come with MS Word. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pechter [mailto:pechter@bg-tc-ppp471.monmouth.com] Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:09 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? > Cameron: > > I can check tonight. I did a PDP logo by hand for my Web site using > MS Paint. It's a sans serif font, but not Arial or Helvetica. It's not > Lucida, either. > > Now, I don't know if this is the actual name of the font used (if > you ask a DEC person), but it's indistinguishable. > > Rich IIRC -- it's a modified Helvetica... The original was pretty much a kind of wood-cut block thing that looked more like Futura then Helvetica. Then came the blue helvetica thing with the squarish dots on the i's. Then they paid big money for the maroon move and rounted i's. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Jul 30 09:33:44 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Classic phone equipment (was Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited) In-Reply-To: <20010727123912.A7459@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:39:12 -0700 Derek Peschel wrote: > On Fri, Jul 27, 2001 at 03:18:12PM -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Its a shame that that AT&T insisted on scrapping all of those old bits > > of equipment; when I worked there back in the mid 1980s, in a > > department that did central office planning and was still working with > > that old switching equipment, I was told that I couldn't purchase, or > > otherwise obtain, any of it, that the company's policy was to scrap > > it. :-( > > It does survive in a few places. See > http://www.scn.org/tech/telmuseum/index.html Also: http://www.light-straw.co.uk/ for a UK equivalent. The name "Light Straw" is the colour of the paint used on old Post Office telephone racks, a bit like beige only more yellow. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Jul 30 09:34:41 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 23:46:38 +0100 (BST) Tony Duell wrote: > OK, if you know all the Vectrex cartridges, and you know me, which image > do you think was the first one I burnt into an EPROM? The diagnostic/self-test cartridge? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 30 09:39:38 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? In-Reply-To: <200107301409.f6UE9Ac52707@bg-tc-ppp471.monmouth.com>; from pechter@bg-tc-ppp471.monmouth.com on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 10:09:10AM -0400 References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BF8@MAIL10> <200107301409.f6UE9Ac52707@bg-tc-ppp471.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010730093938.I29356@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 10:09:10AM -0400, Bill Pechter wrote: > IIRC -- it's a modified Helvetica... The original was pretty > much a kind of wood-cut block thing that looked more like > Futura then Helvetica. Then came the blue helvetica thing with > the squarish dots on the i's. > Then they paid big money for the maroon move and rounted i's. Anybody know of a *computer* (e.g., Mac or PC, TrueType or such) version of this font? This was my original reason for asking, and I would *love* to be able to replace some of the logos on some of my equipment that is old and peeling off.. Mostly the rounded pdp11 logos. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Jul 30 09:39:00 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 00:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. The oldest would be the KIM-1, 1977. But I have a rack of parts for a machine called "Arcturus" which I think is older. I have no idea what it is/was, but I was told that it was the first computer installed at the London University Computing Institute. It's built out of integrated circuits, but nothing more complex than a few gates per chip, as far as I can tell. I'll have to dig it out, photograph it and post the info to the list. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From kapteynr at cboe.com Mon Jul 30 09:44:42 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: altair 8800 Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DE5A@msx1.cboe.com> Herb Johnson has a library of all of the Altair docs on the internet. http://njcc.com/~hjohnson/s100.html I also have all of the original manuals that came with the kit. Interesting S100 add-on cards are getting to be very difficult to find. Please, when you get the computer, DO NOT power it up if it has off for more than ten years. Search the classic computer archive for instructions on bringing it back to life safely. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke [SMTP:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:02 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: altair 8800 > A friend is getting one from his father, who got it around the end of > 1975. He asked me about sources for manuals and documentation, plus > sources for boards to upgrade the system. Further questioning revealed > that he wont get the unit until he travels back to visit the parents, :)) Well, since I will visit various places during the next 7 weeks, I may offer my help to pick it up for free !... Am I a nice guy ? Ciao Hans -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Jul 30 09:44:06 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeff L Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: VMS setup Message-ID: <20010730.094921.364.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:12:24 -0500 (CDT) Eric Dittman writes: > > The VAXstation-3100 family make nice desktop VMS machines. They're > > quite affordable, even on eBay. > > If space is real tight, the VAXstation 4000/VLC would be a good > choice, too. I know where I can get a bunch of those, too. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Jul 30 09:54:28 2001 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: (fwd) TOPS/SUN Flashbox and Flashcard Message-ID: <97tamtopvf8d3922uac3b3nncrko1su0ij@4ax.com> If you can help this guy out, please respond directly to him. On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:37:56 -0400, "Frederick Scholl" wrote: >Hi, Do you know where I can obtain products made by TOPS, a SUN subsidiary. They made the Flashbox and Flashcard, products used for interconnecting macs and pcs. They were popular around 1991. > >Regards, Fred Scholl Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 30 10:18:07 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Classic phone equipment (was Re: Hackers: Computer Outlaws revisited) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While not CO related, there are some neat finds to be had at http://www.oldphones.com. g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 30 10:32:27 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: New home for retroarchive.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jay West was kind enough to let me move the Retroarchive site to one of his machines. As a result of this, the CD-ROM contents are now once again available for downloading. Thanks Jay! g. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 10:23:49 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: References: <816.587T1150T174471optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B659825.5995.11195857@localhost> > > >Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos > > Does anyone here have an Atmos? > Yes! > > It's really an adorable design on the outside, > > with that black and red colour scheme. > Indeed. I have one with a natty little cloth dust cover, > so it's in good condition. I have some manuals and > software, too. Sometimes there's a temptation to move to this little island west of Europe .... I never seen one until now :( Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From mldrew at drewtech.com Mon Jul 30 10:33:14 2001 From: mldrew at drewtech.com (Michael L. Drew) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer References: Message-ID: <3B657E3A.7FE03B3C@drewtech.com> I have a 2114B that I have been dragging around since college... A cool machine with light bulbs and core! Check out: http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/index.html Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > Hello All, > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. > > Luke > > -- =============================================================================== Michael L. Drew Drew Technologies, Inc. 41 Enterprise Drive Ann Arbor, MI 48103 Phone: (734) 623-8080 Fax: (734) 623-8082 =============================================================================== From dsegel at pacbell.net Mon Jul 30 10:51:36 2001 From: dsegel at pacbell.net (Daniel A. Segel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Bought for $3 - MPX16 plus needs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010730080657.00a87ec0@postoffice.pacbell.net> I have the 1/83 issues sitting right behind me as I type...it has a great ad on the back cover with Isaac Asimov hawking the TRS-80 Model III - "Radio Shack's TRS-80 Computer is the smartest way to Write." Part 3 of the series is here, and it's the last part. The next project was a single-line LCD display. Let me know if you'd like a copy of the article, it would be 17 pages including the schematics, or more if I included the full-page ads in between editorial content. Daniel At 09:14 PM 07/28/2001 -0400, you wrote: > I have the first two parts of the series (11/82 and 12/82), but I'm missing >the 1/83 issue and possibly later (I don't know how many issues the article >ran). For 1983, I only have beginning in July. > > If anyone has the remaining issues (except Sam -- based on the photos shown >at VCFE, I'm sure that he couldn't find them :-)) containing articles, >please contact me off-list. Thanks a lot. > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ -- "Being humble is why I'm a great person." Daniel A. Segel dsegel@pacbell.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 30 10:41:21 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: IIc LCD, AIM, Apple I In-Reply-To: <20010730045608.15825.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >--- Mike Ford wrote: >> >there. I've seen an Apple ][ LCD screen for sale there ($200), I bought >> >> Are people still hot for those old IIc LCD screens? I am pretty sure I have >> recently run across a source for them around $60 or so. > >I wouldn't mind one (I have a IIc and a IIc+), but it's on the long-term I've been looking, trying to retrace the surfing steps, but I can't find the place with the LCD panels. It wasn't something I was looking for myself, so I didn't bookmark the page, but its out there someplace. About the only details I remember is that it was some sort of commercial page offering either parts and/or repair of Apple II era stuff. Good news is that I am in contact with the fellow that has the AIM/SYM/KIM systems, but I don't have a inventory from him yet. Half a dozen people have responded so far, and my guess is that is going to use up the supply. Hopefully they are not mostly AIM65, as most people want a different model. I will email people individually once I have the inventory. A few weeks ago I mentioned a friend found a two Apple 1's in a stack of scrap circuit boards, but didn't buy them. He went back and only found one of the two units he saw originally. He bought that one, and it sold immediately to a person in San Jose, Craig something if I remember correctly. From emu at ecubics.com Mon Jul 30 11:02:14 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour References: <3B61C3E4.15734.2243BB7@localhost> <3B6535C1.27339.F98FFE2@localhost> Message-ID: <3B658506.8743E744@ecubics.com> Hans Franke wrote: > > > > Since I will spend the next 7 weeks in the US, on a > > > cross coutry tour, starting in Baltimore in about a > > > week (sorry, due circumstances I will miss VCF East > > > by 5 days :(), I'd love to hear some hints about > > > places to visit. The rough schedule will touch > > > MD, NY, CT, RI, PA, OH, IN, IL, KA, CO, WY, MT, ID, > > > WA, OR, CA - or so. > Well, the intended schedule says something like > Ohio around August 12th to 15th ... just I won't > trust it a lot - my Dreirad may change this > schedule at any time :) You're not saying, you're driving on this dreirad around the US !?!?! ;-) cheers & have fun, emanuel From aknight at mindspring.com Mon Jul 30 11:00:17 2001 From: aknight at mindspring.com (aknight@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer Message-ID: Depending on your definitions, the oldest computer I have is a Mathatronics Mathatron model 4-24, serial number 00133, circa 1964. While this machine only deals with numbers, it has multiple storage registers, is programmable, and can do decision-based branching. It also had Input/Output capability. I also have a Mathatron model 8-48, which dates from 1965 (it has more memory). I've been in touch with one of the designers and the design dates from 1963. Unfortunately, neither of my machines is functional. Read all about it on the Desktop Calculators section of my webiste at http://www.calcmuseum.com The oldest full-blown computer I have is a HP2100S. classiccmp@classiccmp.org wrote: > Hello All, I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you own. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jul 30 11:05:22 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer Message-ID: <111.31b1001.2896dfc2@aol.com> In a message dated 7/29/2001 11:46:32 PM Central Daylight Time, ljcst18+@pitt.edu writes: > Hello All, > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. > > Let's see. I've got an OSI C1P, an H-89A and TRS80 model 1 with and without built in keypad. I don't know which one is the oldest though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010730/292a2092/attachment.html From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 11:19:13 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: <3B658506.8743E744@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3B65A521.20518.114C1163@localhost> > > > > Since I will spend the next 7 weeks in the US, on a > > > > cross coutry tour, starting in Baltimore in about a > > > > week (sorry, due circumstances I will miss VCF East > > > > by 5 days :(), I'd love to hear some hints about > > > > places to visit. The rough schedule will touch > > > > MD, NY, CT, RI, PA, OH, IN, IL, KA, CO, WY, MT, ID, > > > > WA, OR, CA - or so. > > Well, the intended schedule says something like > > Ohio around August 12th to 15th ... just I won't > > trust it a lot - my Dreirad may change this > > schedule at any time :) > You're not saying, you're driving on this dreirad around the US !?!?! Jep, I'll do - or at least I try to ... It's a great pice of high qualiy Russian production technology based on (well, cloned from) even better German engeneering. Why shouldn't this be an ideal vehicle for a tour in the US Hinterlands ? And best of all: a real huge transport capacity for old computers :)) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jul 30 11:21:54 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107301621.LAA29629@caesar.cs.umn.edu> My oldest electric computer is a PDP 8/L, probably manufactured in 1969. It was used to collect experimental data from high speed particle physics experiments. Its in working condition, with a slightly flakey capacitor that I'm told can cause the system to reboot if its been in use for a long time. I'm still looking for a paper tape punch unit to support this unit, as it didnt come with any peripherals. -Lawrence LeMay From fernande at internet1.net Mon Jul 30 11:25:37 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer References: <3B657E3A.7FE03B3C@drewtech.com> Message-ID: <3B658A81.6F8ADAAA@internet1.net> I'm not sure which is older, my Apple //e or my PDP11/53 turned 11/73. I have an IBM AT, but that is currently disassembled, and I'm don't plan on keeping it. I suppose my Apple is the oldest since it is has the painted case with white keyboard characters. All 3 of the computers I mentioned were built for quite awhile, so I could be wrong. I guess the best I can say is early to mid 80's. I've never really gone for wanting the oldest with computers. I got started with oldeer computers because they were cheap. I got a PC and an XT with monitors and keyboards for $35, and then I got a Unisys 286 for free. I of course started working with the Apple //e at school, so I wanted one for home. I didn't get one until the late 90s, However. I wouldn't know what to do with anything like a PDP8. I don't even really know what to do with my 11 yet. Anybody know off hand what year the MicroVax 3400 was released? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA > Hello All, > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. > Luke > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 11:30:08 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: 1% (was Re: Looking for info - En-link Ethernet card for the Apple II) In-Reply-To: <20010626220905.60036.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.1.32.20010626173132.00b3ab20@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3B65A7B0.26189.11560F4F@localhost> > > Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words: > > >Is there ever a time in a car's life > > >when it is worth 1% and still running? I doubt it, but I'm willing to > > >entertain exceptions. > > Yugos. > Q. How do you double the value of a Yugo? > A. Fill the gas tank. > Q. Why do Yugos have rear-window defrosters? > A. To keep your hands warm while you are pushing it. > Q. What's the most important page of the Yugo owner's manual? > A. The page with the train timetables on it. > (Substitute "Lada" for "Yugo" for further entertainment) Well, acording to other sources you may substitute any American car brand (at least during the 70s and 80s) and you still get the joke goin'. OB Joke -> We now have a good chance to see Mercedes playing in the same league. SCNR H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 30 11:40:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: VMS setup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I'm looking around for a VMS setup at the moment, but space is tight(as >always!). Can anyone offer suggestions for a smallish (desktop/under desk) >machine that's suitable for running VMS on? My only experience with VMS is >10+ years ago, version 4.something I think. It ran on an 11/780 cluster, >kind of out of my league :-) Any suggestions, pointers to websites etc? > >TIA >Al. Well, as has been pointed out, if space is tight, the VAXstation 4000/VLC is the smallest system you're going to find and easily be able to run VMS. Basically you've got the following choices that meet your requirements: VAXstation 3100 family VAXstation 4000 family DEC 3000 family (Alpha) DEC AlphaStation family (Alpha) The question is, which is more important, speed or money. The machine families are listed in order of least expensive to most. Personally I recommend a DEC AlphaStation 200 4/233 as a minimum if you're main interest is in OpenVMS itself. My best system is a DEC PWS 433au, and OpenVMS is *really* nice on it :^) http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html Hobbyist site http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ OpenVMS Doc site http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ Main OpenVMS Web Site http://www.islandco.com/ A reseller with good prices on some stuff http://www.ebay.com Probably your best source of a system, unless you get one from someone on this list or local to you. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From emu at ecubics.com Mon Jul 30 11:41:08 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: VMS setup References: Message-ID: <3B658E24.91001225@ecubics.com> Alan Pearson wrote: > > I'm looking around for a VMS setup at the moment, but space is tight(as > always!). Can anyone offer suggestions for a smallish (desktop/under desk) > machine that's suitable for running VMS on? My only experience with VMS is > 10+ years ago, version 4.something I think. It ran on an 11/780 cluster, > kind of out of my league :-) Any suggestions, pointers to websites etc? Go for a 4000/vlc. Even on ebay, prices are between $15-50. That's probably the only vax you can loose on your desk ;-) (up to 24MByte RAM, one 3.5 scsi internal disk, (none of the nice fancy hot disks) graphics is either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, 8bit ) Better one is the 4000/60, around $100 on ebay (up to 72 MByte RAM, two 3.5", one 5.25" internal scsi drives, graphics 1280x1024) Even better 4000/90, around $150. (up to 128MByte RAM, faster graphics than the 4000/60, same enclosure as the 4000/60) Best (?) is the 4000/90a, around $200 on ebay faster version of the 4000/90. a.) just my personal opinion ;-) b.) ebay "prices" are just as a "worst case" scenario. You should get much better deals on this list, or just while waiting ... c.) A good list of the different models & additions is at: http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/ cheers & have fun, emanuel From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Mon Jul 30 12:02:02 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:14 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: <3B65A521.20518.114C1163@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 06:19:13PM +0200 References: <3B658506.8743E744@ecubics.com> <3B65A521.20518.114C1163@localhost> Message-ID: <20010730200202.A12938@mail.er-grp.com> On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 06:19:13PM +0200, Hans Franke wrote: > > Jep, I'll do - or at least I try to ... It's a great > pice of high qualiy Russian production technology > based on (well, cloned from) even better German > engeneering. Why shouldn't this be an ideal vehicle > for a tour in the US Hinterlands ? Please enlighten Finnish-mongreling north-europeans, "dreirad"-> tricycle of sorts ? > > And best of all: a real huge transport capacity for > old computers :)) > Yeah, from the few pics I glanced at via google it just might carry a driver and an Apple I :) You could always attach a rope and just tow those big 11/780s... Would be fun trying to outrun it in a steep downhill slope, "Man Chased by VAX!". -- :wq From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 12:07:26 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: <20010730200202.A12938@mail.er-grp.com> References: <3B65A521.20518.114C1163@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 06:19:13PM +0200 Message-ID: <3B65B06E.22228.117835CD@localhost> > > Jep, I'll do - or at least I try to ... It's a great > > pice of high qualiy Russian production technology > > based on (well, cloned from) even better German > > engeneering. Why shouldn't this be an ideal vehicle > > for a tour in the US Hinterlands ? > Please enlighten Finnish-mongreling north-europeans, ??? Finnish-Mongreling :)) > "dreirad"-> tricycle of sorts ? Well, it's a russian tricycle - I don't call it a trike, since unlike this wheeny constructions wit VW engines the front part is a real bike, like an old war time BMW, and the back like a pickup. Eventualy check the folowing (aussi) page: http://www.ural.com.au/workhorse.html Note my front fork is quite different (mine is one of the prototype units - read, quality is even more a problem :) If you're Finnish, URAL should be a known brand to you - at least the Finns are somewhat famous among the (western) European Ural driver for their remodelling skills. > > And best of all: a real huge transport capacity for > > old computers :)) > Yeah, from the few pics I glanced at via google it just might > carry a driver and an Apple I :) You could always attach a rope > and just tow those big 11/780s... Would be fun trying to outrun > it in a steep downhill slope, "Man Chased by VAX!". At least in the russian flyer they aprease a netto load of at least 500 kg (~1100 lbs). Well, let's see - I'll pick it up next monday at the Baltimore Harbour. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 30 12:21:43 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: <20010730200202.A12938@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: > it in a steep downhill slope, "Man Chased by VAX!". Which of course leads to the headlines: "VAX wins! Man pressed thin by competition." g. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 30 12:32:38 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107301732.TAA21011@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 29 Jul, Tony Duell wrote: > What you want are a couple of N plugs. Getting them shouldn't be hard > (they are still used for RF work), but IIRC there are several types to > suit different diameters of cable. The equivalent type code of "10BaseT cabele" is RG213. This may be usefull, when you are looking for the right connector. Also: There are N to BNC converter plugs. I successfully used one to connect a 10Base5 and a 10Base2 segment. > The solder type are the easiest to fit as a 1-off, since you need no > special tools. ... but a bit experience in mounting these connectors. > At one time I'd have suggested asking a local radio amateur to fit them. > But it appears that many radio amateurs these days don't own soldering > irons or have a clue as to what goes on inside the transceiver. In Germany these radio amateurs are abjectly called "power outlet amateurs", because they only can by equipment and plug it into the power outlet. I am no radio amateur, but I can understand this, as it is normal for me to do routine hardware maintenance with a soldering iron. (Or a mini drilling machine to replace dead cast-in batteies of NVRAM/clock chips.) Every time I do this for friends, that don't know how to handle "hardware tools", I get amazed glances. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 30 12:33:40 2001 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: <3B658A81.6F8ADAAA@internet1.net> from Chad Fernandez at "Jul 30, 2001 12:25:37 pm" Message-ID: <200107301733.f6UHXeN24958@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> My oldest would probably be my SOL, but it's non-functional at present. My oldest functioning computer could be my ][+, my Compucolor II, my Boston IV, or my Tandy Microcomputer Trainer. There aren't many dates on them. Eric From marino13 at btinternet.com Mon Jul 30 12:37:20 2001 From: marino13 at btinternet.com (Shaun Stephenson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: New home for retroarchive.org References: Message-ID: <3B659B50.D1577EA@btinternet.com> Whats the URL?? Gene Buckle wrote: > Jay West was kind enough to let me move the Retroarchive site to one of > his machines. As a result of this, the CD-ROM contents are now once again > available for downloading. Thanks Jay! > > g. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 30 12:48:22 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: M2333 and M2382 drive questions In-Reply-To: <3B6485DD.9BF9619@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <200107301748.TAA21031@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 29 Jul, emanuel stiebler wrote: > The Fujitsu M2333 should work on an Emulex QD32 As should the M2382 do too. I have my QD32 / QD33 manuals not ready to hand, but I can remember there are parameter tables in the manual for some Fujitsu 8" disks up to 1GB. I self run two NEC D2363 (1GB) 9" disks on a QD33. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 30 13:03:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: <3B65B06E.22228.117835CD@localhost> References: <20010730200202.A12938@mail.er-grp.com> <3B65A521.20518.114C1163@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 06:19:13PM +0200 Message-ID: >Well, let's see - I'll pick it up next monday at the >Baltimore Harbour. Better get one of these as a spare http://www.runtbikes.com/frame_set.html From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Jul 30 13:05:37 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Intersil PDP-8 prototyping kit In-Reply-To: <200107301733.f6UHXeN24958@jill.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <3B658A81.6F8ADAAA@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730140123.033ee1f8@mail.njd.concentric.com> I saw something a while back on eBay about which I'd like to get more information or possibly track down. It was a set of boards and (I think) a prototyping panel from Intersil based on their PDP8-on-a-chip technology. I don't remember a lot about it, but I think it might even have had a connection for running the whole thing off a set of batteries. I'd really like to learn a little more about this and maybe even snag one. I know it's not much to go on, but does this ring a bell with anyone? Thanks! -- Tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 30 13:12:44 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: <3B65B06E.22228.117835CD@localhost> Message-ID: > At least in the russian flyer they aprease a netto load > of at least 500 kg (~1100 lbs). In Japan in the early 60's, there were a lot of three wheel vehicles, including tractor-trailers, fire engines, even some sort of dumpster dumper! Could you fit yours with a trailer? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 13:19:35 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: References: <3B65B06E.22228.117835CD@localhost> Message-ID: <3B65C157.165.11BA43F5@localhost> > > At least in the russian flyer they aprease a netto load > > of at least 500 kg (~1100 lbs). > In Japan in the early 60's, there were a lot of three wheel vehicles, > including tractor-trailers, fire engines, even some sort of dumpster > dumper! > Could you fit yours with a trailer? Well, I had no need until now ... and German TUeV may have some objections ... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jul 30 13:43:29 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: New home for retroarchive.org In-Reply-To: <3B659B50.D1577EA@btinternet.com> Message-ID: http://www.retroarchive.org g. On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Shaun Stephenson wrote: > Whats the URL?? > > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > Jay West was kind enough to let me move the Retroarchive site to one of > > his machines. As a result of this, the CD-ROM contents are now once again > > available for downloading. Thanks Jay! > > > > g. > > From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 13:42:42 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Available In DFW Area Message-ID: Well, since I got a nice rack mounted 11/34 with RL01 drives, I'm getting rid of my original 11/34. If you want it, you have to pick it up about 25 miles north of Fort Worth, Texas. It includes: PDP-11/34A CPU (2) RK05J Drives (I never tested these) Several Packs (These probably are bad, some of them are marked "BAD") Cables Power Control Unit The packs are marked RSTS/E, but I seriously doubt that they work anymore. As far as I know, the CPU should work, although I never did get the register printout. If you're interested, email me, and I'll give you more information, then you can make me an offer. Thanks, Owen From mary at sys4.com Mon Jul 30 14:00:31 2001 From: mary at sys4.com (Mary Christensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Wang Computer Message-ID: <3B65AECF.FCDE080F@sys4.com> I was just contacted by a company that is replacing their Wang computer system. They are looking for someone that would be interested in it. However they want to strip the data on it first. I know nothing about the Wang system, so I would have to strip the hard drive. However if it was to be used by another, the operating system would be of value to be left. Do you know anyone that may be interested in the Wang system and that would know how to remove the data without a strip. Thank you Mary Christensen mary@sys4.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 30 14:05:47 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: NVRAM battery replacement (was Re: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia) In-Reply-To: <200107301732.TAA21011@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20010730190547.96051.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > (Or a mini drilling machine to replace dead cast-in batteies of > NVRAM/clock chips.) I have a small box of dead NVRAM chips (48T02 from various sun4c machines). I was thinking about recycling one for a clock project (PIC or 8051 or mc68k based, depending on which way I jump). Are there any components other than the battery in the potted lid? i.e., can I just remove it entirely or do I have to perform delicate surgery to seperate the front leads and solder wires onto the front of the I.C. where the lid used to connect? > Every time I do this for friends, that don't know > how to handle "hardware tools", I get amazed glances. :-) I got "the hairy eyeball" for showing off stuff like this at work. I soldered a 3V solder-tab lithium cell to a 9V battery snap and a 9V battery cable to one of the aforementioned 48T02 NVRAMs. Got lots of strange looks from the boss, but it was my spare from home when I needed one right away and didn't want to wait for the replacements from Mouser to show up. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 30 13:22:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: from "Lucas J Cashdollar" at Jul 30, 1 00:36:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 554 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010730/19445b01/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 30 13:24:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia In-Reply-To: <20010730050426.88449.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jul 29, 1 10:04:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010730/e9bbffa7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 30 13:34:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: I'm *ALSO* new to this list! In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Jul 30, 1 03:34:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 513 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010730/ee9b09ed/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Jul 30 14:25:21 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Speech chips again In-Reply-To: <10106172331.ZM25759@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3B65D0C1.7988.11F677D3@localhost> > Alas, I can no longer find the data sheets for either the TMS5220 or the > PHROMs, and a web search hasn't turned up anything useful. Texas' website > no longer has any info on those devices, neither does the company who deal > with their obsolete products. Does anyone have any information about these > things? I'd like to see (or hear!) what's in the PHROM I've found. I got some crude scans in Paper Port format if you like. Also a bunch of related articles and data sheets - all centered around the TI 99/4, whose speech add on used (of course) the same chip. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 30 14:58:07 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <3B65A7B0.26189.11560F4F@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Hans Franke wrote: > Well, acording to other sources you may substitute any > American car brand (at least during the 70s and 80s) and > you still get the joke goin'. Hans, have you ever driven or ridden in a comfortable large American car from the early to mid 1970's, and seen how solidly it was constructed, and how it had features missing from today's newer cars? Back then, one could even choose from a very wide, by today's standards, variety of carpet styles/textures and colors as well as the types of seat coverings, styles of seats, etc. Hmmm... I'd find the joke funnier of the words "Volvo," (can you say "ugly boring cars?") "BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") or the name of some random japmobile (they wouldn't exist if most of the old US cars hadn't been scrapped so that japan could buy the scrap) was substituted. No, I don't apologize for a lower-case japan. No country that treats dogs and cats as "novelty items," to be disposed of by dropping them in chutes on a street-corner like one drops a letter into a mailbox, so that they can later be destroyed by mechanical means, so that a human doesn't have to see them killed, deserves to have it's name capitalized. Of course, I see no reason why most modern American automobiles as well can't be substituted for this joke. Minivans, 4WD vehicles and the so-called station wagons - if one can call those new tiny vehices station wagons, no longer even have tailgate windows that open, due to the cheapness of design. While the "quality" of modern automobiles reeks of cheapness, the prices are nothing other than overly expensive. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Jul 30 14:44:57 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Using Applesoft BASIC... :) Message-ID: <200107301944.PAA26312@wordstock.com> Here are a few links for those who may need to brush up on their Apple IIc Applesoft Basic programming skills... ;-D You know who you are!! http://www.apple2.org/faq/FAQ.applesoft.html It will even show you how to access text files from within Basic! Cool beans, eh?!! :) Enjoy! Bryan Pope From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 30 14:54:16 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: vaxstation video connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107301954.VAA21428@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 28 Jul, R. D. Davis wrote: > Something I forgot to ask... is the db-15 connector on the VAXstation > 2000 the same pinout as that of the DECstation 3100? No. The VS2k runs the keyboard and mouse via the monitor cable. But AFAIK the pins for the video signals are the same. So you can use a DS3100 cable on the VS2k, but you will not be able to connect keyboard and mouse. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 30 13:58:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: <3B65A521.20518.114C1163@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Hans Franke wrote: > And best of all: a real huge transport capacity for old computers :)) Like I said, call me when you get stuck trying to go up over the Rockies and I'll send out a tow truck ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 30 14:59:10 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010730195910.5699.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > ..."BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 30 14:03:22 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Intersil PDP-8 prototyping kit In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730140123.033ee1f8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Tony Eros wrote: > I saw something a while back on eBay about which I'd like to get more > information or possibly track down. It was a set of boards and (I > think) a prototyping panel from Intersil based on their PDP8-on-a-chip > technology. I don't remember a lot about it, but I think it might > even have had a connection for running the whole thing off a set of > batteries. I'd really like to learn a little more about this and > maybe even snag one. It's called the Intercil Intercept Jr. I have one in my collection. Here is a picture: http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.InterceptJr.html Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jul 30 14:07:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Using Applesoft BASIC... :) In-Reply-To: <200107301944.PAA26312@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Bryan Pope wrote: > Here are a few links for those who may need to brush up on their Apple IIc > Applesoft Basic programming skills... ;-D > > You know who you are!! > > http://www.apple2.org/faq/FAQ.applesoft.html > > It will even show you how to access text files from within Basic! > Cool beans, eh?!! :) I knew what I was doing. I was just in a rush since everyone was anxiously awaiting the results. Besides, it wasn't the textfile stuff I wasn having problems with, it was try to seed the random number generator. So nyah! :P Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 30 15:05:29 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Re: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) (Ethan Dicks) References: <20010730195910.5699.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15205.48649.84759.569718@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 30, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > ..."BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. Drop me a note next time you're in DC. I will change that opinion. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 15:13:06 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151400@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Hans Franke wrote: > > Well, acording to other sources you may substitute any > > American car brand (at least during the 70s and 80s) and > > you still get the joke goin'. > > Hans, have you ever driven or ridden in a comfortable large American > car from the early to mid 1970's, and seen how solidly it was > constructed, and how it had features missing from today's newer cars? > Back then, one could even choose from a very wide, by today's > standards, variety of carpet styles/textures and colors as well as the > types of seat coverings, styles of seats, etc. Yeah, I saw *six* Chevy Vega models this weekend... at least, I think *one* of them was a Cosworth... -dq From claudew at videotron.ca Mon Jul 30 15:25:41 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: I am in the big newpaper today about my vintage computer collecting hobby...no link to me or my site but one to VCF... Message-ID: <00d101c11935$ce46ebc0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi Well I am in the big Montreal newspaper today but no link to me (email) or to my site... I guess the circulation of that paper is maybe around a million...(?) Headlines translates to english : "Computer Archeologists" (...) Photo of me with a TRS80 mod I in my hands and a Pet in the background and shelves in the back with some of my collection. I was counting on this to get me offers for new machines - dont think its gonna happen... They post a link to www.vintage.org (and others) but not to me (email or my site) ! What did I do? I was part of an article with a local console collector who runs a console/game collector club that I am part of. Most active members are big ebay sellers and the club site was mentionned in the article so I guess the webmaster/president of that club will get the offers for the maybe 1 or 2 interesting machines this article might "uncover"...and to ebay they will go...perhaps some of the guys should question themselves if the hobby is collecting and restoring or the "commerce" of buying and selling of that kinda stuff...one of these guys in the article even said he managed to live one year (in is car and eating once a week?) on selling carts and consoles on ebay...now everyone will think their 286 is worth $100 and an Atari 2600 is worth $120... Anyways, the article is in french. I dont know the legal/copyright implications of scanning and posting this on my site but Ill try to scan and maybe translate and post... Claude http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Jul 30 15:15:41 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: The new VAX is alive! Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066091@exc-reo1> Ethan Dicks wrote: >Has anyone here successfully done this? I have the VAXen, I have a ROM >burner, I have the patches and I have a complete 32-bit file with the >patches applied. My uVAX-2000s are so old that I cannot apply the patch >to what I have. My problem is that I have four ROMs and am not sure which >ROM goes in which socket. Does anyone have a map of which sockets >correspond to which bytes? The ROMs go like this: 31...24 23...16 15...8 7...0 --- jump code --------------- 2004.0000 SYS_TYPE (0400.0000) 2004.0004 VERS VERS VERS VERS 2004.0008 (same in each EPROM) 0x03 0x02 0x01 0x00 2004.000C Sadly I don't have a printset so I cannot pin it down much better than this. The chances are high that the ROMs go in order with the Exx numbers assigned to each slot, so you only have to decide increasing or decreasing order. Normally I would whip the top off a machine and just tell you which ones go where but this is a uv2000 we are talking about here ... :-) Antonio From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Jul 30 15:21:19 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer References: Message-ID: <003e01c11935$3279f8e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I've got a PDP11/05 with 8K-words of core-memory. I dont know when it was produced but I guess it would be from somewhere between 1973-1975. Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Lucas J Cashdollar To: Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:36 AM Subject: Whats you oldest computer > Hello All, > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. > > Luke > > > > > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Jul 30 15:26:19 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Printers used with Altair Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879C0C@MAIL10> Hello, all: Well, I'm bored again and am looking at the Altair emulator code. There's room for enhancement in the line printer support code to support control characters of certain printers. So, here's the question. If I were a purchaser of an Altair in 1977, which printer would I have purchased? What control code would it have interpreted? Were the early printers sophisticated enough to recognize "bold", "underline" or "italic"? Maybe instead of sending the printer output to a text file, I can create an HTML file on the fly that supports the formatting codes with tags. Rich From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 30 15:23:20 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Gespac or G-64/G-96 bus specification?? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010730161940.00a63860@mailhost.intellistar.net> I've been tinkering with the Digilog computer that I found a while back. I found out that the CPU and memory cards are made by Gespac and that the cards (3U form factor) meet the G-96 bus spcification. Is anyone familar with the Gespac stuff or the G-96 bus spec? (FWIW I also found that the hard drive in the Digilog won't spin up so that means I probably won't be able to recover the OS :-( Joe From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 15:33:38 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <20010730195910.5699.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ethan Dicks wrote: > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. About the only things that a Porsche and a VW have in common are ancestors that were designed by engineering teams led by the same individual. By that metric I've got a pen that's a cheap {Porsche, VW}. Or is the assertion that all four wheel vehicles with boxer motors Porsches (in which case Subaru is in for a surprise ;-))? -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Jul 30 15:38:19 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Intersil PDP-8 prototyping kit In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730140123.033ee1f8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010730163705.034004f0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Ahh, I'll have to keep my eye out for one. -- Tony At 12:03 PM 7/30/2001 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Tony Eros wrote: > > > I saw something a while back on eBay about which I'd like to get more > > information or possibly track down. It was a set of boards and (I > > think) a prototyping panel from Intersil based on their PDP8-on-a-chip > > technology. I don't remember a lot about it, but I think it might > > even have had a connection for running the whole thing off a set of > > batteries. I'd really like to learn a little more about this and > > maybe even snag one. > >It's called the Intercil Intercept Jr. I have one in my collection. > >Here is a picture: > >http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.InterceptJr.html > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 30 15:38:30 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Wang Computer In-Reply-To: <3B65AECF.FCDE080F@sys4.com> Message-ID: What kind of machine is this? Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Mary Christensen wrote: > I was just contacted by a company that is replacing their Wang computer > system. They are looking for someone that would be interested in it. > However they want to strip the data on it first. I know nothing about > the Wang system, so I would have to strip the hard drive. However if it > was to be used by another, the operating system would be of value to be > left. Do you know anyone that may be interested in the Wang system and > that would know how to remove the data without a strip. > Thank you > Mary Christensen > mary@sys4.com > From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 15:39:01 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151400@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Yeah, I saw *six* Chevy Vega models this weekend... at least, I think > *one* of them was a Cosworth... Wow. the last time I saw a Cosworth Vega was in 1980. It was a surprising car -- almost as surprising as the Vega I encountered that someone had wedged a 350 into -- a car which, thanks to the Vega's corrosion problems, folded in half one day when the owner put her foot in it coming off the line one afternoon... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Jul 30 15:51:00 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: NVRAM battery replacement (was Re: Thick Net Cable Terminator i n Sydney Australia) In-Reply-To: <20010730190547.96051.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107302051.WAA21579@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 30 Jul, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have a small box of dead NVRAM chips (48T02 from various sun4c machines). A SPARCstation 1+ was my entrance to this kind of surgery. :-) > Are there any components other than the battery in the potted lid? Yes. At the side of the pins 1 / 24 is the quartz. The battery is at the side of the pins 12 / 13. > i.e., can I just remove it entirely or NO! (Or you have to reattach the quartz.) > do I have to perform delicate surgery to seperate the front leads and solder > wires onto the front of the I.C. where the lid used to connect? This is more ore less the case. You have to mill into the resine from the top down to the top of the battery. You need to remove about 5 to 8mm from the pin 12/13 edge towards the pin 1/24 edge. Prepare the top of the battery so that you can see the wire that goes down to the chip. This is +. Carefully mill down that wire up to the gap between the led and the chip. Free the wire from the resine left and right of it. Cut the wire at the top from the battery. Solder a wire to it and to the + connector of a 3V battery. Connect - of the battery to pin 12 (GND) of the chip. You can connect - of the new battery to the - wire of the old battery. But that wire is very short and therefore difficult to prepare. As it is directly connected to pin 12, it is better to use that to connect - of the new battery. You can also use rasp to take the top of the led away up to the top of the battery. Then you can use a sharp cutter knife to prepare the + wire. But you need to be more careful when using this method than with a mini drilling machine and you need some more detaild knowledge of the anatomy of the chips. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jul 30 15:59:26 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010729224844.032daeb0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010730135838.01c18010@209.185.79.193> At 08:28 AM 7/30/01 -0400, you wrote: >Does it (PDP-5) work, Chuck? Its one of those, "It worked when I turned it off in 1995." Things. I've been getting around to bringing it back to life for a while now. --Chuck From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 30 15:52:35 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: <003e01c11935$3279f8e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010730164333.00a70aa0@mailhost.intellistar.net> A HP 9100 complete with extended memory, plotter, printer, interface buffer and all the manuals. Made in 1968. The 9100 uses no ICs only dodes and transistors. The memory is core. The readout shows the contents of the X,Y and Z registers. It's built with a CRT that has been masked off so that only three lines of data are displayed (X=xxxxxxx,Y=xxxxxxx and Z=xxxxxx). You can see more at . I also have a DG Nova 1200 but I don't know how old it is. Joe From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jul 30 15:55:29 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: Message-ID: <3B65C9C1.8BB23D4C@texoma.net> I always wanted a Cosworth. There was one still on the showroom of Edwards Chevrolet in Whitewright Texas in 1984. The dealership owner was a old man that kept a lot of one off vehicles, like a 1974 'vette convertible on the showroom floor and wouldn't sell them for a million. He just didn't need the money. About 1987 or 88 he died and his son took all of the cool cars away. Also OT, I owned a V8 Vega in the late '70's . Put a 302 Chevy out of a z28 in it. It made one haul ass car. Sold it to my ex-nephew who sold it for drugs. :-( Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Yeah, I saw *six* Chevy Vega models this weekend... at least, I think > > *one* of them was a Cosworth... > > Wow. the last time I saw a Cosworth Vega was in 1980. It was a > surprising car -- almost as surprising as the Vega I encountered > that someone had wedged a 350 into -- a car which, thanks to the Vega's > corrosion problems, folded in half one day when the owner put her foot > in it coming off the line one afternoon... > > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 16:03:21 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Printers used with Altair Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151403@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > So, here's the question. If I were a purchaser of an Altair in 1977, > which printer would I have purchased? What control code would it have > interpreted? Were the early printers sophisticated enough to recognize > "bold", "underline" or "italic"? The only certainty I can think of is Control-L (FF) == FormFeed, e.g. top-of-form. In '77, you got underline by backing up the carriage and putting underlines underneath the text you'd just printed... you got boldface by backing up the carriage and reprinting what you'd printed. Italics required an minimum 80 proof software upgrade of the operator... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 16:07:06 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151404@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Yeah, I saw *six* Chevy Vega models this weekend... at least, I think > > *one* of them was a Cosworth... > > Wow. the last time I saw a Cosworth Vega was in 1980. It was a > surprising car -- almost as surprising as the Vega I encountered > that someone had wedged a 350 into -- a car which, thanks to the Vega's > corrosion problems, folded in half one day when the owner put her foot > in it coming off the line one afternoon... We had one of those conversions running around town... but the owner claimed it was a 454... he *had* beaten on the fenderwells for some reasons or another... But it had to have Whilly bars.... *way* too much torque! -dq From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 30 16:33:46 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <15205.48649.84759.569718@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 30, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > ..."BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") > > > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. > > Drop me a note next time you're in DC. I will change that > opinion. ;) Let's see if I can help to mediate this dispute... I think what Ethan probably meant to say was that a Porsche is an overpriced Beetle with a bigger engine and a squished body, which you should be able to demonstrate to him the next time that he's in your area. :-) However, I have to agree that a Porsche is overpriced, as I've seen US cars with even bigger engines and special handling packages, that cost much less, leave Porsches in the dust at stoplights. The look on the face of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to observe. ROFL!!! -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 16:15:51 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The only Cosworth I ever saw was just a "built" engine sitting in a speed shop when I lived in Illinois back in the mid 80's. They eventually put the engine into a Pinto body (fiberglass, not really a Pinto) and it really hauled ass. Made a lot of 8 cylinder cars look bad. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris Kennedy -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:39 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: -> -> > Yeah, I saw *six* Chevy Vega models this weekend... at least, I think -> > *one* of them was a Cosworth... -> -> Wow. the last time I saw a Cosworth Vega was in 1980. It was a -> surprising car -- almost as surprising as the Vega I encountered -> that someone had wedged a 350 into -- a car which, thanks to the Vega's -> corrosion problems, folded in half one day when the owner put her foot -> in it coming off the line one afternoon... -> -> -- -> Chris Kennedy -> chris@mainecoon.com -> http://www.mainecoon.com -> PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 30 16:17:18 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010730211718.11507.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chris Kennedy wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. > > About the only things that a Porsche and a VW have in common are > ancestors that were designed by engineering teams led by the same > individual. I have a couple later Type IIs, one 1975 and one 1976 Microbus. They use the same engine as a Porche 914, but, OTOH, I have heard the 914 decried as not a "true" Porche. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 30 16:21:29 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <15205.48649.84759.569718@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010730212129.18659.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > On July 30, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > ..."BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") > > > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. > > Drop me a note next time you're in DC. I will change that > opinion. ;) About Beetles or Porches? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 31 04:26:18 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Available In DFW Area References: Message-ID: <003901c119a2$db61ca60$0101a8c0@jay> GRRRRRRRRRRR I would LOVE an 11/34 and two RK05's!!! Unfortunately, There's no way I can pick them up. If someone can get them on a pallet, I can pay a shipper to come pick them up perhaps? Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Owen Robertson To: Classic Computer Mailing List Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: PDP-11/34 Available In DFW Area > Well, since I got a nice rack mounted 11/34 with RL01 drives, I'm getting > rid of my original 11/34. If you want it, you have to pick it up about 25 > miles north of Fort Worth, Texas. It includes: > > PDP-11/34A CPU > (2) RK05J Drives (I never tested these) > Several Packs (These probably are bad, some of them are marked "BAD") > Cables > Power Control Unit > > The packs are marked RSTS/E, but I seriously doubt that they work anymore. > As far as I know, the CPU should work, although I never did get the register > printout. If you're interested, email me, and I'll give you more > information, then you can make me an offer. > > Thanks, > Owen > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jul 30 16:27:54 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo? In-Reply-To: Bill Bradford "Re: Font used in d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo?" (Jul 30, 9:39) References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879BF8@MAIL10> <200107301409.f6UE9Ac52707@bg-tc-ppp471.monmouth.com> <20010730093938.I29356@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <10107302227.ZM5137@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 30, 9:39, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 10:09:10AM -0400, Bill Pechter wrote: > > IIRC -- it's a modified Helvetica... The original was pretty > > much a kind of wood-cut block thing that looked more like > > Futura then Helvetica. Then came the blue helvetica thing with > > the squarish dots on the i's. > > Then they paid big money for the maroon move and rounted i's. > > Anybody know of a *computer* (e.g., Mac or PC, TrueType or such) > version of this font? This was my original reason for asking, and > I would *love* to be able to replace some of the logos on some of > my equipment that is old and peeling off.. Mostly the rounded > pdp11 logos. There won't be a complete computer-based version of the font, because, like most logos, it's been modified from a standard font, and only some of the characters will have been created. The original is Futura, but the ascenders and descenders are modified. If you want to see a PostScript version of some logos, I did some a while back for pdp11.org, and you can find them at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/ as the pdp*.ps files. The one called pdp11_34.ps is an accurate rendition of one from my 11/34, though I can't recall whether I checked it against the panel or one of the manuals (probably the manuals). I should have a d|i|g|i|t|a|l one somewhere, too, but based on the later almost-Helvetica font. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 30 16:34:01 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Re: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) (R. D. Davis) References: <15205.48649.84759.569718@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15205.53961.534712.408829@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 30, R. D. Davis wrote: > Let's see if I can help to mediate this dispute... I think what Ethan > probably meant to say was that a Porsche is an overpriced Beetle with > a bigger engine and a squished body, which you should be able to > demonstrate to him the next time that he's in your area. :-) However, > I have to agree that a Porsche is overpriced, as I've seen US cars > with even bigger engines and special handling packages, that cost much > less, leave Porsches in the dust at stoplights. The look on the face > of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile > embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to > observe. ROFL!!! Ahh, you've missed the entire point. Porsches aren't muscle cars. There's more to cars than huge raw horsepower...sure a 70's camaro with a 6.6 under the hood will toast my 911 off the line...but he'll have to slow down to 25 to take the sharp turns that I take every day at 60-70. And that very same 6.6-powered camaro will start to shake itself apart at around 120-130, while I can trivially take my 911 clear up to 180 before I only back down because I'm pissing in my pants. I've seen that look of embarrassment on Porsche owners' faces before too...but only the ones who've mistaken their Porsches for muscle cars. I've owned two 911s...Knock 'em all you want, but drive one for a while before you do so. Otherwise, and I mean this respectfully, you frankly have no idea what you're talking about. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 30 16:34:46 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) (Ethan Dicks) References: <20010730211718.11507.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15205.54006.44890.189359@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 30, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no > > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. > > > > About the only things that a Porsche and a VW have in common are > > ancestors that were designed by engineering teams led by the same > > individual. > > I have a couple later Type IIs, one 1975 and one 1976 Microbus. They use > the same engine as a Porche 914, but, OTOH, I have heard the 914 decried > as not a "true" Porche. They're not. They're awfully cute, though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 16:40:07 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:15 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <20010730211718.11507.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd love to have one of the older buses, like the style they have on the Lone Gunmen or that credit card commercial where they're going to different ballparks. I've had beetles from a 60 (6v I converted to 12)to the newest being a 66 with the hardtop that had the canvas/vinyl opening that you turned a handle to pull open for a sun roof. It was great if you didn't forget to close it and it rained. I think in all I've had 10 different standard Beetles, never a super (didn't like them) and always lusted over either the bus or the half bus/half truck (I forget what they were called). In Illinois and New York they rotted bad and now that I'm in an area with no slat and a mild climate they're either scrapped or someone thinks they're worth $7500 for a 68 stock beetle (in their dreams). -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:17 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> -> --- Chris Kennedy wrote: -> > Ethan Dicks wrote: -> > -> > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that -> serves no -> > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. -> > -> > About the only things that a Porsche and a VW have in common are -> > ancestors that were designed by engineering teams led by the same -> > individual. -> -> I have a couple later Type IIs, one 1975 and one 1976 Microbus. They use -> the same engine as a Porche 914, but, OTOH, I have heard the 914 decried -> as not a "true" Porche. -> -> -ethan -> -> -> ===== -> Visit "The Seventh Continent" -> http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html -> -> __________________________________________________ -> Do You Yahoo!? -> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger -> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 16:46:29 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <20010730212129.18659.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Maybe he was talking about BeeMers.? Now a BMW (motorcycles too)is a work of art...just my own damn opinion though. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:21 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> -> --- Dave McGuire wrote: -> > On July 30, Ethan Dicks wrote: -> > > --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: -> > > > ..."BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") -> > > -> > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that -> serves no -> > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. -> > -> > Drop me a note next time you're in DC. I will change that -> > opinion. ;) -> -> About Beetles or Porches? -> -> -ethan -> -> -> ===== -> Visit "The Seventh Continent" -> http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html -> -> __________________________________________________ -> Do You Yahoo!? -> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger -> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 16:46:27 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As far as I've ever viewed the Prsche, it's a Karman Ghia with a fancy trim package and bigger cylinder jugs, better transaxle gearing. I've worked ona few of both (my friend's vehicles) and really saw nothing to make me believe there was justification for the bigger ticket, but I see Corvettes and Harley Davidsons as a way for people to think they're better than others by buying a certain brand name too. I've ridden some of the Jap knocks-offs that look like Harleys and I think they're actually nicer and they seem to be holding their value as well as Harleys too, albiet they're 1/2 the price in many cases. When the "crotch rocket" was a trend I did like Harleys, I've always liked heavier bikes with a V twin, but now they're just not worth the "glamour". -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:34 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: -> > On July 30, Ethan Dicks wrote: -> > > --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: -> > > > ..."BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") -> > > -> > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that -> serves no -> > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. -> > -> > Drop me a note next time you're in DC. I will change that -> > opinion. ;) -> -> Let's see if I can help to mediate this dispute... I think what Ethan -> probably meant to say was that a Porsche is an overpriced Beetle with -> a bigger engine and a squished body, which you should be able to -> demonstrate to him the next time that he's in your area. :-) However, -> I have to agree that a Porsche is overpriced, as I've seen US cars -> with even bigger engines and special handling packages, that cost much -> less, leave Porsches in the dust at stoplights. The look on the face -> of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile -> embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to -> observe. ROFL!!! -> -> -- -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> other animals: -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> above Nature & -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> to justify such -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -> From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 16:48:09 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151405@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Let's see if I can help to mediate this dispute... I think what Ethan > probably meant to say was that a Porsche is an overpriced Beetle with > a bigger engine and a squished body, which you should be able to > demonstrate to him the next time that he's in your area. :-) However, > I have to agree that a Porsche is overpriced, as I've seen US cars > with even bigger engines and special handling packages, that cost much > less, leave Porsches in the dust at stoplights. The look on the face > of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile > embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to > observe. ROFL!!! Both the Porsche (911 Carrera 4) and the Chevy Corvette can pul in excess of one g-force laterally.... however, somebody makes a car that can pull 2.5G! I saw it in a chart, but can't recall which it is... at any rate, few people have the skills to operate a vehicle at one-G-lateral, so the comparison may need to involve drivers with comparable skills... ...this is why NASCAR is so popular... it's driver vs. driver. -dq From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jul 30 16:47:48 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: Message-ID: <3B65D604.F7426583@texoma.net> My 944 gets left at the stoplight all of the time by Detroit iron. But I'll catch them and pass them in any corner. "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > On July 30, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > > ..."BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") > > > > > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no > > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. > > > > Drop me a note next time you're in DC. I will change that > > opinion. ;) > > Let's see if I can help to mediate this dispute... I think what Ethan > probably meant to say was that a Porsche is an overpriced Beetle with > a bigger engine and a squished body, which you should be able to > demonstrate to him the next time that he's in your area. :-) However, > I have to agree that a Porsche is overpriced, as I've seen US cars > with even bigger engines and special handling packages, that cost much > less, leave Porsches in the dust at stoplights. The look on the face > of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile > embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to > observe. ROFL!!! > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From west at tseinc.com Tue Jul 31 04:53:32 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: EIA / telco "standards" for switch/datacenters? References: <20010729235249.A19092@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <00b601c119a6$a92dc860$0101a8c0@jay> Absolutely.... Datacenters or more generically "premise wiring" should always adhere to EIA/TIA-568 "Commercial Building Telecommunications Wiring Standard". This standard includes not only the 568A/B ethernet cat5 wiring standards for pair assignment (USOC, ATT, etc.) but also defines standards for home runs, concentration methodologies, wiring closed standards, acceptable cable bend radius parameters, etc. etc. EIA/TIA-568 is the standard that most any wiring contractor uses. If memory serves, the standard also addresses color coding schemes on cable runs as well. I would bet that panduit's website would have details of the standard online. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Bradford To: ; Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 11:52 PM Subject: EIA / telco "standards" for switch/datacenters? > Can anybody point me to a "standards" document for > things such as telco/datacenter wiring 'best practices', > EIA standards, etc? > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX > From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 16:54:15 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: R.D Davis wrote: [snip] > The look on the face of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk > of a US automobile embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that > is quite funny to observe. ROFL!!! *grinning* I've yet to have that experience. Then again, I've yet to encounter a "rusting hulk of a US automobile" that will do 0 - 60mph in 3.2 seconds and kiss the far side of 190mph. If, however, the metric is bang-for-buck rather than emotion I wouldn't even consider a Porsche -- I'd get a new Vette :-) -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 16:59:12 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <20010730211718.11507.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have a couple later Type IIs, one 1975 and one 1976 Microbus. They use > the same engine as a Porche 914, but, OTOH, I have heard the 914 decried > as not a "true" Porche. Is that the 356-derived engine rather than the "standard" VW engine? It's true, most people don't think of 914's as "real" Porsches, except in the 2.7 and 916 variants, which used 911 engines. I'm obviously guilty of that, since I didn't even consider the 914 (or the 924, for that matter) when I composed my original reply :-( Then again, if it's got liquid cooling in more than its heads I don't tend to think of it as a "real" Porsche... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 30 16:54:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <20010730195910.5699.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no >purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. Sigh, Porsche make a unique and wonderfull line of automobiles, ANY of which I would love to own again. Now thats a train of thought I better put a cork in fast. I really do miss my 928, and I do have a birthday coming up. Something tells me I will still be driving my 91 Mustang long after I blow out the candles. ;( BTW the new beetle sure will hold a LOT of old computers. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 30 16:46:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: References: <3B65A7B0.26189.11560F4F@localhost> Message-ID: >On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Hans Franke wrote: >> Well, acording to other sources you may substitute any >> American car brand (at least during the 70s and 80s) and >> you still get the joke goin'. > >Hans, have you ever driven or ridden in a comfortable large American >car from the early to mid 1970's, and seen how solidly it was I almost mentioned back in the thread someone wanted to know a car that could still be driven at 1% of original price, and quite a few big old Cadillac's are pretty close. Around 2 or 3% or original cost and you actually have a practical to drive vehicle. I have a cousin who won't even think of owning anything but a decade or more old Cadillac. From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jul 30 16:52:47 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: <20010730211718.11507.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B65D72F.7963B12B@texoma.net> Only the 914-6....but I drive a "water cooled, front engine" Porsche...a lot of people don't consider them "true" Porsches either. (not that I realy care either). James, proud owner of a 1983 944, 365k miles and still going, and a 1997 Volvo 850T5. I resent the ugly and boring label. (asbestos underwear on! Flame your ass off!) Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have a couple later Type IIs, one 1975 and one 1976 Microbus. They use > the same engine as a Porche 914, but, OTOH, I have heard the 914 decried > as not a "true" Porche. > > -ethan > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jul 30 17:04:04 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Available In DFW Area In-Reply-To: <003901c119a2$db61ca60$0101a8c0@jay>; from west@tseinc.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:26:18AM -0500 References: <003901c119a2$db61ca60$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <20010730170404.Z29356@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:26:18AM -0500, Jay West wrote: > GRRRRRRRRRRR I would LOVE an 11/34 and two RK05's!!! > Unfortunately, There's no way I can pick them up. If someone can get them on > a pallet, I can pay a shipper to come pick them up perhaps? > Jay West And speaking of that, would *anyone* have a "proper" -11/xx for sale that has the REAL (blinkylights, toggle switches) front panel? I've got a number of LSI-11 based stuff (11/03, /23, /73 boards, etc) for partial trade... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 17:11:05 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And where in the US (other than maybe a private track or open desert) do you do 190 mph? Lats time I bounced my speedo off the 150 peg in my 70 Roadrunner GTX in the way-out secluded desert (about 1978) I got nailed by a state trooper and the fine kept me from buying gas for a few weeks. He clocked me at 162 on radar, freshly cal'd. Nice to have that speed but it really serves no purpose on the highways. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris Kennedy -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:54 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> R.D Davis wrote: -> -> [snip] -> -> > The look on the face of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk -> > of a US automobile embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust -> like that -> > is quite funny to observe. ROFL!!! -> -> *grinning* I've yet to have that experience. Then again, I've yet to -> encounter a "rusting hulk of a US automobile" that will do 0 - 60mph in -> 3.2 seconds and kiss the far side of 190mph. If, however, the metric is -> bang-for-buck rather than emotion I wouldn't even consider a Porsche -- -> I'd get a new Vette :-) -> -> -- -> Chris Kennedy -> chris@mainecoon.com -> http://www.mainecoon.com -> PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 17:20:46 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Although I've long since dropped the heavies, almost anything I own is around 15 yrs old - I have an 84 Ford Ranger, 89 Festiva (ok so that's newer), 86 Aerostar and a 79 Dodge 4WD pickup (yup that's a heavy but it's for 3 times a year for hunting). My Ranger had a blown engine in it when I bought it for $100 and I stuck a newly rebuilt long block in it and redid the brakes, exhaust, etc - I have approx $1400 into it and other than an older body style it gets 27mpg loaded, gets me around to service calls at around 1750 miles per week, and always starts and does what I need it to. Many people don't even see their real first principle payment on anew vehicle until after making huge payments (more than my mortgage usually) for a year or so. If they try to sell it in that first year they've lost their butts in depreciation and many new ones are in the shop getting "the bugs out" for a lot of that first year. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:46 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> >On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Hans Franke wrote: -> >> Well, acording to other sources you may substitute any -> >> American car brand (at least during the 70s and 80s) and -> >> you still get the joke goin'. -> > -> >Hans, have you ever driven or ridden in a comfortable large American -> >car from the early to mid 1970's, and seen how solidly it was -> -> I almost mentioned back in the thread someone wanted to know a car that -> could still be driven at 1% of original price, and quite a few big old -> Cadillac's are pretty close. Around 2 or 3% or original cost and you -> actually have a practical to drive vehicle. I have a cousin who -> won't even -> think of owning anything but a decade or more old Cadillac. -> -> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 30 17:06:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010730164333.00a70aa0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "joe" at Jul 30, 1 04:52:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1931 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010730/d4485385/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 30 17:23:28 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151400@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >Yeah, I saw *six* Chevy Vega models this weekend... at least, I think >*one* of them was a Cosworth... Gee, where were you, Lost Vega's? BTW this Porsche etc. thread could wander for days, but I will just toss in one last bit. If you love good engineering, appreciate quality and detail, it is very hard not to admire Porsche. If you enjoy the experience of driving a car close to its limits, then nothing seems to get under your skin like a Porsche, except for a purpose built track car. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 17:28:56 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151408@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > My 944 gets left at the stoplight all of the time by Detroit iron. But > I'll catch them and pass them in any corner. That's because your 944 is really an Audi... If you don't believe that, I'll bet you it was built in Ingolstadt... -dq From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 30 17:50:52 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Maybe he was talking about BeeMers.? Now a BMW (motorcycles too)is a work of > art...just my own damn opinion though. ...more like a work of weird modern art. :-) Those BMWs look rather unattractive when compared with a classic like a Harley and it's gleaming chrome. Those BMWs don't even sound like motorcycles. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jul 30 17:34:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010730223423.24358.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chris Kennedy wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have a couple later Type IIs, one 1975 and one 1976 Microbus. They use > > the same engine as a Porche 914, but, OTOH, I have heard the 914 decried > > as not a "true" Porche. > > Is that the 356-derived engine rather than the "standard" VW engine? What's in mine is that factory-standard engine. When I go to get gaskets for an oil change, the package says "914 2.0L engine". > It's true, most people don't think of 914's as "real" Porsches, except in > the 2.7 and 916 variants, which used 911 engines. I'm obviously > guilty of that, since I didn't even consider the 914 (or the 924, for > that matter) when I composed my original reply :-( I figured you didn't. That's why I had to respond. > Then again, if it's got liquid cooling in more than its heads I don't > tend to think of it as a "real" Porsche... No liquid cooling at all in a 1975 or 1976 microbus. Air and oil, and don't run low on oil. -ethan ObClassicCmp: my first direct exposure to analog computers was the 300-component computer for the fuel injection in this beast. I have some basic test procedures, but right now, the 1975 isn't operating because the previous owner (a teenager) tried to fix a high idle problem by tweaking every knob and screw that could be frobbed. The salesdrone at the lot told me that it idled fast - I started it, listened to it, then reached down and pulled on the pedal. The hinge was broken on one side and rusty on the other. It would stick, preventing it from returning to the full upright position. I even splurged on stainless mounting hardware... total cost to repair _that_ problem (of many) - less than $9. Now if only the rest of the fuel injection system was as easy to debug. I don't think it's a computer problem, per se, but a sensor/wiring/out-of-adjustment problem. It's kinda like hacking a black box. Poke here and there and see what falls out the other side. ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From gknight at emugaming.com Mon Jul 30 17:30:09 2001 From: gknight at emugaming.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Graphical WWW browser for MSX(!) References: <815.611T1050T2494367optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <002701c11947$971cbd20$0101010a@pentium2> Iggy Drougge > FUDEBROWZER > the graphical MSX web-browser Impressive. Has anyone tried the Gameboy emulator for MSX yet? -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 30 17:33:13 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) (Douglas Quebbeman) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151405@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15205.57513.384636.927341@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 30, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > ...this is why NASCAR is so popular... it's driver vs. driver. I thought NASCAR was a food marketing organization. At least, nearly every package in all the convenience stores around here has the NASCAR logo on it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 17:39:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The only Cosworth I ever saw was just a "built" engine sitting in a speed >shop when I lived in Illinois back in the mid 80's. They eventually put the >engine into a Pinto body (fiberglass, not really a Pinto) and it really >hauled ass. Made a lot of 8 cylinder cars look bad. If I remember correctly, in race ready trim, the Cosworth engine based on the aluminum Vega engine was good for roughly 300hp. I forget what the civilized production version in the Cosworth Vega put out. Around 1980 or so I had one of the automotive magazines with a big write up on what Cosworth did to it. Pretty interesting stuff. Based on the Vega's tendancy to self destruct, I'd saw few were manufctured and far fewer actually remain. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 30 17:37:50 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) (Russ Blakeman) References: Message-ID: <15205.57790.414835.188151@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 30, Russ Blakeman wrote: > And where in the US (other than maybe a private track or open desert) do you > do 190 mph? Lats time I bounced my speedo off the 150 peg in my 70 Certain thinly-patrolled stretches of Route 95 between DC and Georgia. However I'll be the first to admit that I don't do that very often...this country is full of egomaniacal cops who are too lazy, scared, or inexperienced to actually [gasp] CATCH CRIMINALS...so they bitch about how people drive instead. > Roadrunner GTX in the way-out secluded desert (about 1978) I got nailed by a > state trooper and the fine kept me from buying gas for a few weeks. He > clocked me at 162 on radar, freshly cal'd. Nice to have that speed but it > really serves no purpose on the highways. "Serves no purpose" is an interesting concept. My grandmother (who was a VERY wise woman) taught me that the only NEEDS in life are to paying taxes and dying. Everything else is optional. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 17:46:18 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Russ Blakeman wrote: > And where in the US (other than maybe a private track or open desert) do you > do 190 mph? Three weeks ago it was one valley to the east, on the way home from Tahoe. Of course that valley is a large, ancient lakebed, part of which is technically "high desert", so maybe that fits into one of the categories you mention above :-) -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Jul 30 17:50:26 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeff L Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <20010730.175502.348.2.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:54:50 -0700 Mike Ford writes: > BTW the new beetle sure will hold a LOT of old computers. ^^^^^^^^^ Hah. Yet *another* imposter! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Jul 30 17:40:32 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeff L Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <20010730.175502.348.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:40:07 -0500 "Russ Blakeman" writes: > standard Beetles, never a super (didn't like them) and always lusted > over either the bus or the half bus/half truck (I forget what they were > called). CREWCAB!!! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Jul 30 17:48:54 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeff L Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <20010730.175502.348.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:59:12 -0700 "Chris Kennedy" writes: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have a couple later Type IIs, one 1975 and one 1976 Microbus. > >They use the same engine as a Porche 914, but, OTOH, I have heard the 914 > >decried as not a "true" Porche. > > Is that the 356-derived engine rather than the "standard" VW > engine? Mebbe. It seems like the 1.8L+ engines were of Porche origin, while the smaller ones were stock VeeDub units. > It's true, most people don't think of 914's as "real" Porsches, > except in the 2.7 and 916 variants, which used 911 engines. I'm obviously > guilty of that, since I didn't even consider the 914 (or the 924, > for that matter) when I composed my original reply :-( Argh. You *had* to mention the 924, didn't you? Shoot, the damned engine isn't even in the right place. It's just an Audi impersonating (badly) a Porche. > Then again, if it's got liquid cooling in more than its heads I > don't tend to think of it as a "real" Porsche... Yeh, I'll drink to that . . . ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From engdahl at cle.ab.com Mon Jul 30 18:12:48 2001 From: engdahl at cle.ab.com (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: burning ROMs for KDJ11-SD Message-ID: <001101c1194d$25ec3da0$664199a1@rcs.ra.rockwell.com> I have a KDJ11-SD (M7554-SD from a DECserver 550) that uses 27256 ROMs, and a KDJ11-DA (from a PDP-11/53) that uses 27128 ROMs. Someone emailed me the PDP-11/53 boot ROM hex files. They're numbered 261E5.hex and 262E5.hex. I burned these into a pair of 27128's and plugged them into the -DA board, and it runs great. If I plug these ROMs into the -SD, I get the slow "KDJ11-D/S 1.0" message that means that the powerup selftest can't even get off the starting line. I'm guessing it means a bad ROM checksum. This same board runs RT-11 and 2.11BSD great if I boot from the Andromeda UDC11 disk controller. I tried burning these hex files into 27256 ROMs several different ways, for example: first half second half ---------- ----------- firmware all zeros firmware all ones all ones firmware <- this emulates 27128, A14 replaces PGM all zeros firmware You can plug a 27256 into a 27128 socket if it has been burned like case 3, since a run-mode 27128 socket has PGM/A14 pulled high. The board will not be able to tell the difference. Can anyone tell me the magic key to getting the ROMs burned for the -SD? Maybe there is a jumper that tells the board to use 27128 ROMs, but I haven't figured that out. I've figured out all but three of the jumpers by now. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117, USA Euclid Labs engdahl@cle.ab.com 216-266-6409 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010730/a6a56099/attachment.html From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 18:18:28 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <20010730.175502.348.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: Jeff Kaneko wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:40:07 -0500 "Russ Blakeman" > writes: > > standard Beetles, never a super (didn't like them) and always lusted > > over either the bus or the half bus/half truck (I forget what they were > > called). > > CREWCAB!!! Now that I stop to think about it, wasn't that the "Combi"? -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jul 30 18:22:12 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: AY-3-8910 In-Reply-To: <3B659825.5995.11195857@localhost> Message-ID: We have an Atmos also, Hans. On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Hans Franke wrote: > > > >Also Oric 1 and Oric Atmos > > > > Does anyone here have an Atmos? > > > Yes! > > > > It's really an adorable design on the outside, > > > with that black and red colour scheme. > > > Indeed. I have one with a natty little cloth dust cover, > > so it's in good condition. I have some manuals and > > software, too. > > Sometimes there's a temptation to move to this little > island west of Europe .... > > I never seen one until now :( > > Gruss > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen > http://www.vcfe.org/ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Jul 30 18:25:23 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: NeXTSTEP Developer available Message-ID: <39.185e5025.289746e3@aol.com> I have 3 spare copies of Nextstep Developer ver 3.2. This is the complete package as it came from NeXT still in the original package. That includes: Packing List CDROM in its original case. 'Thank You' letter from NeXT for purchasing. Supplemental Release Notes (5 pages) Installalation Pamphlet License Agreement Customer Satisfaction Survey postcard It does not include any comprehensive documentation on how to 'develop' applications. From what I understand, Developer 3.2 does work with NeXT OS 3.3. Also the CD is clearly marked "...for Intel processores and NeXT computers", so if you have the NeXT OS on an Intel box also then here's your chance. Of the three packages, one has not been opened and another has been opened but the CD case is still sealed. I'm asking $15 + $5 S&H, check, MO or Paypal. Mike From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 18:26:46 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's the type of area ...I was coming down the mountains from Pioche/Ely NV when I got nailed but I've been out to Barstow, Tahoe, most of AZ, China Lake NWR, Death Valley and many others in it and my other big engined 5 mpg cars back then. My 74 Nova was the nicest, though not the fastest, but it gave me a whopping 18 mpg on the flat-out run -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris Kennedy -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 5:46 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> Russ Blakeman wrote: -> -> > And where in the US (other than maybe a private track or open -> desert) do -> you -> > do 190 mph? -> -> Three weeks ago it was one valley to the east, on the way home -> from Tahoe. -> Of course that valley is a large, ancient lakebed, part of which is -> technically "high desert", so maybe that fits into one of the categories -> you mention above :-) -> -> -- -> Chris Kennedy -> chris@mainecoon.com -> http://www.mainecoon.com -> PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 -> From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Jul 30 18:18:34 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: <20010730211718.11507.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> <3B65D72F.7963B12B@texoma.net> Message-ID: <00e101c1194d$f4e7e960$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:22 AM Subject: Re: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) > James, proud owner of a 1983 944, 365k miles and still going, and a 1997 > Volvo 850T5. I resent the ugly and boring label. 74 Renault 12 Station Wagon, 79 Volvo 244DL sedan. Seconded. Especially regearding some of the new Volvo's, like the CrossCountry. (My dad had a 58 Rambler 'Cross Country' station wagon some years ago, I guess AMC's trademark on that must have expired.) Geoff in Oz From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 18:33:55 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But they do ride long and they ride smooth, once you get past the hangup of an opposed flat engien sticking out. I've ridden one from Vegas to Tampa and never once had a backache or sore butt. My old panhead used to jar my kidneys but much of that was the hard frame combined with the older technoology engine. I had a Harley 54 (the Harley made trike) and it rode smooth as glass. I bought that one for $400 from the Chicago Police auction, and it only had 15k miles on it, all inner city downtown miles. I sold it a year later for over $5k... I do like the older HD's but after visiting a shop last month (did a printer repair for them) I have lost the interest in at least their newer items. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 5:51 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: -> > Maybe he was talking about BeeMers.? Now a BMW (motorcycles -> too)is a work of -> > art...just my own damn opinion though. -> -> ...more like a work of weird modern art. :-) Those BMWs look rather -> unattractive when compared with a classic like a Harley and it's -> gleaming chrome. Those BMWs don't even sound like motorcycles. -> -> -- -> Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & -> other animals: -> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're -> above Nature & -> rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma -> to justify such -> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. -> From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 18:33:58 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <15205.53961.534712.408829@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Your Porsche with a 2.0L does that type of flat out speed - me thinks much of it's abilities are in both the timing and gearing as my Ranger p/u has a 2.0 and 90 is pretty much it on the open road, but I could probably put your Porsche on the back and carry it without problem. Of course my Ranger is basically a Mazda with a different trim and other parts. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:34 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> On July 30, R. D. Davis wrote: -> > Let's see if I can help to mediate this dispute... I think what Ethan -> > probably meant to say was that a Porsche is an overpriced Beetle with -> > a bigger engine and a squished body, which you should be able to -> > demonstrate to him the next time that he's in your area. :-) However, -> > I have to agree that a Porsche is overpriced, as I've seen US cars -> > with even bigger engines and special handling packages, that cost much -> > less, leave Porsches in the dust at stoplights. The look on the face -> > of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile -> > embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to -> > observe. ROFL!!! -> -> Ahh, you've missed the entire point. Porsches aren't muscle cars. -> There's more to cars than huge raw horsepower...sure a 70's camaro -> with a 6.6 under the hood will toast my 911 off the line...but he'll -> have to slow down to 25 to take the sharp turns that I take every day -> at 60-70. And that very same 6.6-powered camaro will start to shake -> itself apart at around 120-130, while I can trivially take my 911 -> clear up to 180 before I only back down because I'm pissing in my -> pants. -> -> I've seen that look of embarrassment on Porsche owners' faces before -> too...but only the ones who've mistaken their Porsches for muscle -> cars. -> -> I've owned two 911s...Knock 'em all you want, but drive one for a -> while before you do so. Otherwise, and I mean this respectfully, you -> frankly have no idea what you're talking about. -> -> -Dave -> -> -> -- -> Dave McGuire -> Laurel, MD From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jul 30 18:42:07 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <3B65D604.F7426583@texoma.net> Message-ID: Well it`s not really surprising is it? You only have half an engine in there. ;) On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, James Rice wrote: > My 944 gets left at the stoplight all of the time by Detroit iron. But > I'll catch them and pass them in any corner. > > "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > > On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On July 30, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > > > ..."BMW" (can you say "overpriced VW Beetle?") > > > > > > > > Hardly... a BMW has that large finny thing in the front that serves no > > > > purpose in a Beetle. A Porche is an overpriced Beetle. > > > > > > Drop me a note next time you're in DC. I will change that > > > opinion. ;) > > > > Let's see if I can help to mediate this dispute... I think what Ethan > > probably meant to say was that a Porsche is an overpriced Beetle with > > a bigger engine and a squished body, which you should be able to > > demonstrate to him the next time that he's in your area. :-) However, > > I have to agree that a Porsche is overpriced, as I've seen US cars > > with even bigger engines and special handling packages, that cost much > > less, leave Porsches in the dust at stoplights. The look on the face > > of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile > > embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to > > observe. ROFL!!! > > > > -- > > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 18:43:10 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151409@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > And where in the US (other than maybe a private track or open desert) do you > > do 190 mph? > > Three weeks ago it was one valley to the east, on the way home from Tahoe. > Of course that valley is a large, ancient lakebed, part of which is > technically "high desert", so maybe that fits into one of the categories > you mention above :-) Can't even imagine.... I've had the 5000 Quattro Turbo up to 140mph on a local straight section of interstate.... I think the car had more to give, but my cajones max out at 140... Hail to the chief! -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 18:44:38 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715140A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > If I remember correctly, in race ready trim, the Cosworth > engine based on the aluminum Vega engine was good for roughly 300hp. > I forget what the civilized production version in the Cosworth Vega > put out. Around 1980 or so I had one of the automotive magazines > with a big write up on what Cosworth did to it. Pretty interesting > stuff. Based on the Vega's tendancy to self destruct, I'd saw few > were manufctured and far fewer actually remain. I'm pretty sure the Cosworth's used the older iron 4cyl block, not the first-stab-at-the-Alcoa process, which Porsche used quite successfully in the 928... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jul 30 18:46:19 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715140B@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On July 30, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > ...this is why NASCAR is so popular... it's driver vs. driver. > > I thought NASCAR was a food marketing organization. > > At least, nearly every package in all the convenience stores around > here has the NASCAR logo on it. Yeah, but isn't that because Jeff Gordon owns them all? -dq From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jul 30 18:45:30 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) (Russ Blakeman) References: <15205.53961.534712.408829@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15205.61850.144666.140394@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 30, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Your Porsche with a 2.0L does that type of flat out speed - me thinks much > of it's abilities are in both the timing and gearing as my Ranger p/u has a > 2.0 and 90 is pretty much it on the open road, but I could probably put your > Porsche on the back and carry it without problem. Of course my Ranger is > basically a Mazda with a different trim and other parts. Actually it's a 3.6L with a LOT of torque. Though I'm no motorhead, I udnerstand that two spark plugs and two ignition coils per cylinder helps quite a bit, as does the very weird tuned-induction system in the intake manifold. I drove a 6.6L FireChicken for several years...this [stock] 911 will blow its doors clean off, above OR below 100MPH. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 30 18:54:19 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer Message-ID: <011101c11954$cd033010$3e769a8d@ajp166> >> I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you >> own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest PDP-8/f manufacture date 1973 Other include an Altair, TRS80 (rev-A board) Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 30 18:57:01 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: VMS setup Message-ID: <011201c11954$d05b0da0$3e769a8d@ajp166> Besides the various 3xxx and 4xxx series machines mentioned a MicroVax2000 is also a possible machine and by far one of the smallest. It will run V5.4 and if you tailor it V7.2 (disk space is limited to a MFM rd54 of some 159mb). Versions of VMS out there worth considering V5.4, 6.2 and 7.2 are common. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Alan Pearson To: 'classiccmp@classicmp.org' Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:34 AM Subject: VMS setup >I'm looking around for a VMS setup at the moment, but space is tight(as >always!). Can anyone offer suggestions for a smallish (desktop/under desk) >machine that's suitable for running VMS on? My only experience with VMS is >10+ years ago, version 4.something I think. It ran on an 11/780 cluster, >kind of out of my league :-) Any suggestions, pointers to websites etc? > >TIA >Al. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 30 18:59:52 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Intersil PDP-8 prototyping kit Message-ID: <011301c11954$d3c38d00$3e769a8d@ajp166> Your looking for the intersil "sampler" a 6960 with 256words or ram and 1kw of rom plus a interface chip. CPU is 6100. you need a TTY or tty emulator and also the IO is NOT PDP-8 compatable. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Tony Eros To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 2:21 PM Subject: Intersil PDP-8 prototyping kit >I saw something a while back on eBay about which I'd like to get more >information or possibly track down. It was a set of boards and (I think) a >prototyping panel from Intersil based on their PDP8-on-a-chip >technology. I don't remember a lot about it, but I think it might even >have had a connection for running the whole thing off a set of >batteries. I'd really like to learn a little more about this and maybe >even snag one. > >I know it's not much to go on, but does this ring a bell with anyone? > >Thanks! > >-- Tony > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 30 19:01:33 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Intersil PDP-8 prototyping kit Message-ID: <011401c11954$d6ffcc40$3e769a8d@ajp166> The intercept was not the only one offered by intersil. The intercept was an expandable system where the supersampler was a single board thing to play with. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Tony Eros To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Intersil PDP-8 prototyping kit >Ahh, I'll have to keep my eye out for one. > >-- Tony > >At 12:03 PM 7/30/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Tony Eros wrote: >> >> > I saw something a while back on eBay about which I'd like to get more >> > information or possibly track down. It was a set of boards and (I >> > think) a prototyping panel from Intersil based on their PDP8-on-a-chip >> > technology. I don't remember a lot about it, but I think it might >> > even have had a connection for running the whole thing off a set of >> > batteries. I'd really like to learn a little more about this and >> > maybe even snag one. >> >>It's called the Intercil Intercept Jr. I have one in my collection. >> >>Here is a picture: >> >>http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.InterceptJr.html >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 30 19:05:11 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: NVRAM battery replacement (was Re: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia) Message-ID: <011501c11954$da7f2f00$3e769a8d@ajp166> >was thinking about recycling one for a clock project (PIC or 8051 or mc68k >based, depending on which way I jump). Are there any components other than >the battery in the potted lid? i.e., can I just remove it entirely or >do I have to perform delicate surgery to seperate the front leads and solder >wires onto the front of the I.C. where the lid used to connect? Yes there are but finding the battery is easy with a small magnet as it's steel cased. then grind off the plastic in that area till you hit it. pry it out and add wires to another and your all set. I can do them in my sleep. Allison From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 18:56:12 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That sounds more like the name I remember, would sure like to have one in good condition -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chris Kennedy -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:18 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> Jeff Kaneko wrote: -> -> > On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:40:07 -0500 "Russ Blakeman" -> -> > writes: -> > > standard Beetles, never a super (didn't like them) and always lusted -> > > over either the bus or the half bus/half truck (I forget -> what they were -> > > called). -> > -> > CREWCAB!!! -> -> Now that I stop to think about it, wasn't that the "Combi"? -> -> -- -> Chris Kennedy -> chris@mainecoon.com -> http://www.mainecoon.com -> PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Jul 30 18:57:08 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151409@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Wussy! :-) -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Douglas Quebbeman -> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:43 PM -> To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' -> Subject: RE: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> > > And where in the US (other than maybe a private track or -> open desert) do -> you -> > > do 190 mph? -> > -> > Three weeks ago it was one valley to the east, on the way home -> from Tahoe. -> > Of course that valley is a large, ancient lakebed, part of which is -> > technically "high desert", so maybe that fits into one of the -> categories -> > you mention above :-) -> -> Can't even imagine.... I've had the 5000 Quattro Turbo up to 140mph -> on a local straight section of interstate.... I think the car had more -> to give, but my cajones max out at 140... -> -> Hail to the chief! -> -> -dq From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 19:06:41 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715140A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715140A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >I'm pretty sure the Cosworth's used the older iron 4cyl block, >not the first-stab-at-the-Alcoa process, which Porsche used quite >successfully in the 928... Maybe the street Vega's had it in iron, but the race engine that was used for other things, but based on the Vega engine, was definately aluminum. The article I mentioned talked about their sleeving process. I didn't care for the car much, but I wanted the engine.... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Jul 30 19:08:10 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: Message-ID: <3B65F6E4.E6B20D5C@eoni.com> Another T2 driver (and former 914 owner) chimes in... Most people don't, but Porsche certainly felt that they were. I have a book titled "The Racing Porsches" that was published with the assistance of Porsche GmBH and clear at the end of the 901, 904, 906, 936, 962, Bergspyder, etc. line on the cover photo are a pair of 914s. IMHO, the best handling Porsche ever built. Jim Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I have a couple later Type IIs, one 1975 and one 1976 Microbus. They use > > the same engine as a Porche 914, but, OTOH, I have heard the 914 decried > > as not a "true" Porche. > > Is that the 356-derived engine rather than the "standard" VW engine? > > It's true, most people don't think of 914's as "real" Porsches, except in > the 2.7 and 916 variants, which used 911 engines. I'm obviously > guilty of that, since I didn't even consider the 914 (or the 924, for > that matter) when I composed my original reply :-( > > Then again, if it's got liquid cooling in more than its heads I don't > tend to think of it as a "real" Porsche... > > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 30 19:41:33 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:16 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Well it`s not really surprising is it? You only have half an engine in > there. ;) Yeah, it appears that the designers of the Porsche couldn't quite figure how to make 8 cylinders work together; of course, even if they did, the car couldn't handle the weight of a normal-sized engine. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jul 30 19:29:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: VMS setup In-Reply-To: from "ajp166" at Jul 30, 2001 07:57:01 PM Message-ID: <200107310029.f6V0TJa20581@shell1.aracnet.com> > Besides the various 3xxx and 4xxx series machines mentioned a > MicroVax2000 > is also a possible machine and by far one of the smallest. It will run > V5.4 and > if you tailor it V7.2 (disk space is limited to a MFM rd54 of some > 159mb). > > Versions of VMS out there worth considering V5.4, 6.2 and 7.2 are common. I'm going to have to disagree with Allison on this one. I strongly believe that a VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000 is not a good system in this case. There are two major problems that I see, both related to the disk interface. You're stuck with a MFM disk, all of which are getting very old, and you can't connect a CD-ROM. If you're only going to have one OpenVMS system, do yourself a favor and get one with real SCSI! Also, why V5.4? The preferred landing zone for V5.x is V5.5-2. Zane From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 19:33:31 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <3B65F6E4.E6B20D5C@eoni.com> Message-ID: Jim wrote: > Another T2 driver (and former 914 owner) chimes in... Most people don't, > but Porsche certainly felt that they were. I have a book titled "The > Racing Porsches" that was published with the assistance of Porsche GmBH > and clear at the end of the 901, 904, 906, 936, 962, Bergspyder, etc. > line on the cover photo are a pair of 914s. IMHO, the best handling > Porsche ever built. The 914 and 924 have been referred to in some literature as "The mass market Porsches". The 916 is certainly the best handling Porsche, being essentially a 914-6 with a 2.7RS engine and a welded-in-place steel roof that corrected the flexy-flyer characteristics of the 914. The 914, in turn, is much more neutral that even recent production 911 derivatives -- and orders of magnitude better than the earlier torsion bar suspension versions wherein one learns the dual mantras of "throttle oversteer is your friend" and "Never, NEVER get off the gas in a corner no matter how badly you want to go for the brakes!". I'd love to say something nice about the 924, but I'm having some problems. How about "The 924S goes faster than a 944?" ;-) -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 19:32:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: IBM and pantyhose (was: Pocket protectors) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <944.612T1500T925333optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >On Sun, 29 Jul 2001, Geoff Reed wrote and misquoted: >> At 03:00 AM 7/30/01 +0100, you wrote: >> >R. D. Davis skrev: >> >Anyway, there was a spot with an old IBM employee telling an anecdote >> >about when he was green at the company, wandering down a corridor, >> >impeccably dressed, when he encounters an older employee who proceeds to >> >lift his trousers' leg, scolding him for not wearing pantyhose. >[...] >Kindly note that I did not write the above quoted text. Please fix >your quoting mechanism. Well, while simply stating that some "you" wrote this and that, he didn't imply that you, R.D., wrote it. Not if you're able to read attribution lines. But I agree that Geoff should include the name of the previous author. "You" doesn't amount to much on a mailing list. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Schont die Sockel, wenn ihr die Denkm?ler st?rzt. Sie k?nnten noch gebraucht werden. --- Stanislaw Jerzy Lec From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 19:42:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <765.612T1050T1025191optimus@canit.se> Lucas J Cashdollar skrev: > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you >own. Considering that "real" consumer micros weren't introduced until 1978 or so, I think that's a lower limit for a lot of us. As for me, I think I hit the bottom at 1981 or 1982. Machines of mine from that era would be the C64, the Spectrum, the TI-99/4A, the Dragon 32 and the ABC- 800. I think I've mostly got the cheap boys' bedroom kind of machine, introduced after 1980. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r / das wu?te ich so gut / was so ein junger Boy / aus lauter Liebe tut /?ich w?rde in die Schwulenscene gehn /?und sexy Boys den Kopf verdrehn / ich h?tt genug Verkehr / wenn ich ein Junge w?r. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r - Nina Hagen From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 19:54:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT Re: US Tour In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <604.612T850T1144347optimus@canit.se> XenoSoft skrev: >> At least in the russian flyer they aprease a netto load >> of at least 500 kg (~1100 lbs). >In Japan in the early 60's, there were a lot of three wheel vehicles, >including tractor-trailers, fire engines, even some sort of dumpster >dumper! There is a considerable pool of three-wheel lorrys in Italy. Anything bigger will not be able to manoeuvre some of the older parts of towns there. =) Piaggio makes a model called the Ape, which seems quite handy. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I use OpenBSD 'coz it has a cool blowfish logo. The other BSDs look satanic. - Anonymous Coward From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 20:02:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system (was: building a PDP11...) In-Reply-To: <3B6558AD.30276.10216CA1@localhost> Message-ID: <1772.612T1200T1225273optimus@canit.se> Hans Franke skrev: >> >One of my crazy ideas is how to solve the internationalization problem. >> >Use extended ASCII or some now 8-bit-wided character set, and declare >> >English to be the official international language of the platform. Screw >> >this Unicode crap. >> Great idea, Geoff. Oh, wait, there is already such a system... I think it >> starts with a U, the there's an X in the back... >And to make it worse, they introduced dozends of 8 Bit codes ... I've found no trace of anything above the seventh on our OpenBSD system. >> I welcome Unicode. Everyone should, since it would solve this >> internationalisation problem. >Jep. Unicode is, for most circumstances a real relif. >Even when you still do 8 Bit systems (8 Bit character >sets) it will help a lot - for example we can't convert >our application to 16 Bit characters, since on the /370 >part this would require more than a few lines of code. >On the other hand we had to support different code sets >in different installations (from Arabic and Cyrillic >to Greek and Turkish and of course the funny French/ >Spanisch accented caracters) while still manage a common >code base and online data exchange. Unicode did give us >a good base to define our codesets as subsets and to define >interchange rules. I'd just like to be able to run a Japanese text editor in one window without having my ???'s garbled in the other one. =) At least with 8 bits, we're better off than back in the ISO-646 days. >BTW: the 9900 looks like a great Unicode machine - eventualy >one should drop all this unnecersary byte operation :) 9900 what? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Och har du en TV utan Scart, vilket nittionio procent faktiskt har, kommer de f?rmodligen att ringa fr?n Antikrundan. Martin Timell From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 20:06:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Atari Lives In-Reply-To: <3B65732A.3940.1088E40E@localhost> Message-ID: <548.612T650T1263923optimus@canit.se> Hans Franke skrev: >> >Then there is the fact that in Europe you can still aparently buy new TOS >> >based systems. >> Oh yes. If only I had some 5000 EUR to spare... >Shure that we're talking about the same system ? >IIRC it's something like 1500 Mark (~760 EUR / >680 USD) for a working system in a PC Tower. Oops, that's 5000 SEK, or 500 EUR. If only I had even 500 EUR to spare... =/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 20:18:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1057.612T650T1383911optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >Let's see if I can help to mediate this dispute... I think what Ethan >probably meant to say was that a Porsche is an overpriced Beetle with >a bigger engine and a squished body, which you should be able to >demonstrate to him the next time that he's in your area. :-) However, >I have to agree that a Porsche is overpriced, as I've seen US cars >with even bigger engines and special handling packages, that cost much >less, leave Porsches in the dust at stoplights. The look on the face >of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile >embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to >observe. ROFL!!! I saw a Volvo 740 on the cover of a car mag today which accelerated faster than a Porsche 911. I just thought, "So what?". A Porsche is a Porsche, a Volvo is just a Volvo, no matter how fast it is (of course, this does not include the P1800 =). There are other qualities than pure speed. If that was the main selling point, rich people would drive dragsters. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 20:25:20 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Speech chips again In-Reply-To: <3B65D0C1.7988.11F677D3@localhost> Message-ID: <894.612T1000T1454633optimus@canit.se> Hans Franke skrev: >> Alas, I can no longer find the data sheets for either the TMS5220 or the >> PHROMs, and a web search hasn't turned up anything useful. Texas' website >> no longer has any info on those devices, neither does the company who deal >> with their obsolete products. Does anyone have any information about these >> things? I'd like to see (or hear!) what's in the PHROM I've found. >I got some crude scans in Paper Port format if you like. >Also a bunch of related articles and data sheets - all >centered around the TI 99/4, whose speech add on used >(of course) the same chip. I'm offline ATM and can't tell whether this would be relevant, but if you're into TI-99/4A, this is a good site indeed: http://www.stanford.edu/~thierry1/ti99/titechpages.htm -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Was ist ein Erwachsener? Ein Kind, das vom Alter aufgepumpt ist. --- Simone de Beauvoir From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 20:27:55 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: vaxstation video connector In-Reply-To: <200107301954.VAA21428@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <583.612T2750T1476163optimus@canit.se> jkunz skrev: >On 28 Jul, R. D. Davis wrote: >> Something I forgot to ask... is the db-15 connector on the VAXstation >> 2000 the same pinout as that of the DECstation 3100? >No. The VS2k runs the keyboard and mouse via the monitor cable. But >AFAIK the pins for the video signals are the same. So you can use a >DS3100 cable on the VS2k, but you will not be able to connect keyboard >and mouse. How about the II/GPX and the DS5000/200? I hear that's not a good couple. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company. From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 19:43:21 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <15205.61850.144666.140394@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Dave wrote: > Actually it's a 3.6L with a LOT of torque. Though I'm no motorhead, I > udnerstand that two spark plugs and two ignition coils per cylinder > helps quite a bit, as does the very weird tuned-induction system in > the intake manifold. Dual plugs make an incredible difference. My bastard something-between-RS- and-RSR is a normally aspirated 3.4L making in excess of 350HP at 11.5:1 compression on pump gas. We get away with this thanks to the hemi heads and twin plugs with dual distributorless crank-fire ignitions which allow the flame fronts to advance before detonation can occur. In the latest iteration we've junked the injection (again) and are back to carbs (again), this time a pair of triple-50MM PMOs that are truly things of beauty -- even if getting six things to row together _is_ a pain... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 19:45:17 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: R.D. Davis wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > Well it`s not really surprising is it? You only have half an engine in > > there. ;) > > Yeah, it appears that the designers of the Porsche couldn't quite > figure how to make 8 cylinders work together; of course, even if they > did, the car couldn't handle the weight of a normal-sized engine. :-) You didn't get the joke. The 944 engine is an in-line four created by bisecting the V8 from the 928. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From emu at ecubics.com Mon Jul 30 19:52:53 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: Message-ID: <3B660165.648B420@ecubics.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Yeah, it appears that the designers of the Porsche couldn't quite > figure how to make 8 cylinders work together; of course, even if they > did, the car couldn't handle the weight of a normal-sized engine. :-) > If you know what you're doing, you probably don't need 8 cylinders ;-) It's like you need 128 MByte RAM to login into windows, or 256KByte to work with 16 other people on pdp11/rsx ... cheers From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Jul 30 19:52:58 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeff L Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <20010730.195259.186.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:18:28 -0700 "Chris Kennedy" writes: > > > over either the bus or the half bus/half truck (I forget what they were > > > called). > > > > CREWCAB!!! > > Now that I stop to think about it, wasn't that the "Combi"? Hmm, interesting-- I always thought the 'Kombi' was a windowless Bus-- you know, kinda like a panel truck. So, what *do* you call the four door VW pickup truck? ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From vance at ikickass.org Mon Jul 30 20:04:28 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <3B65D72F.7963B12B@texoma.net> Message-ID: I drive a modified 2001 BMW 530i. I used to drive a modified Audi S4 Biturbo. One can say that the S4 is a glorified Passat. I've never met a 440 hp Passat though. I appreciate the Porsche (and I wouldn't use one for drag racing). I also apprecite the (1995?) Volvo T5R which is a very nice car. Not all Volvos are boring. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, James Rice wrote: > Only the 914-6....but I drive a "water cooled, front engine" Porsche...a > lot of people don't consider them "true" Porsches either. (not that I > realy care either). > > James, proud owner of a 1983 944, 365k miles and still going, and a 1997 > Volvo 850T5. I resent the ugly and boring label. > > (asbestos underwear on! Flame your ass off!) From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 30 20:37:49 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > About the only things that a Porsche and a VW have in common are > ancestors that were designed by engineering teams led by the same > individual. By that metric I've got a pen that's a cheap > {Porsche, VW}. Or is the assertion that all four wheel vehicles > with boxer motors Porsches (in which case Subaru is in for a surprise ;-))? The engines in the VW 411, the early 70's VW type 2 (bus,pickup), and the original Porsche 914, ... are more similar than PC-DOS and MS-DOS. BTW, when marketing parts for those engines, would it be better to call those parts "for Porsche" or "for VW"? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 30 20:43:50 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I'd love to have one of the older buses, like the ... > . . .or that credit card commercial where they're going to different > ballparks. Take a close look at the brackets alongside the inside of the windshields. That one has the "safari windshields" that are hinged at the top and open. Those are VERY rare in the U.S. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 30 20:48:00 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <3B65D604.F7426583@texoma.net> Message-ID: > My 944 gets left at the stoplight all of the time by Detroit iron. But > I'll catch them and pass them in any corner. "If you let me pick the course, I can beat ANYTHING. In a Honda 600." (not many of those cars will even fit through doorways or in an elevator) I did have to concede defeat once. A former business partner's day job was repairing elevators, ... -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 30 20:49:46 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <15205.57790.414835.188151@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > > And where in the US (other than maybe a private track or open desert) do you > > do 190 mph? Lats time I bounced my speedo off the 150 peg in my 70 > ...this country is full of egomaniacal cops who are too lazy, > scared, or inexperienced to actually [gasp] CATCH CRIMINALS...so they > bitch about how people drive instead. Don't they want to use molten iron for that? From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 30 20:55:39 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > stuff. Based on the Vega's tendancy to self destruct, I'd saw few > were manufctured and far fewer actually remain. The Vega was a misguided experiment in building a car that was intended to last exactly as long as people "normally" kept them. It was a lot like the PCJr in terms of providing exactly what people asked for, and ignoring what they really wanted. It lasted 50K +/- 5K miles beautifully. Then it wore through the coating of the cylinder walls, and in the space of another few feet of driving, the pistons ate the aluminum block. It was very rare to ever encounter one with serious (worse than timing belt) problems below 50K miles, and even rarer to ever encounter one with more than 60K miles. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 30 21:05:47 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <20010730.195259.186.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: > Hmm, interesting-- I always thought the 'Kombi' was a windowless > Bus-- you know, kinda like a panel truck. So, what *do* you call > the four door VW pickup truck? Many names were used and abused by "marketing" over the years, but the model numbers remained moderately solid. The windowless van was a model 211. I was quite partial to the 215 (with freight doors on BOTH sides). I'll try to find my shop manuals later (FSOT) and look up the "official" designations. They were often informally called "double cab VW pickup". There were a number of variations, such as 3 door, and with "normal" or narrow rear side door. Due to the "chicken tax" issues, the ones after 68 (one piece windshield, sliding freight doors but no windows on the bus) were a little rare. I really liked the '54 bus. The engine compartment came all the way up to the rear window, and had the spare tire on top of the engine. Aside from the spare tire overheating, you could remove its shelf and get at things like oil cooler without removing the engine. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Jul 30 21:18:49 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (geoffr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: NVRAM battery replacement (was Re: Thick Net Cable Terminator in Sydney Australia) In-Reply-To: <011501c11954$da7f2f00$3e769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, ajp166 wrote: > Yes there are but finding the battery is easy with a small magnet as it's > steel cased. > then grind off the plastic in that area till you hit it. pry it out and > add wires to another > and your all set. Be careful, many RTC packages also have a 32.768 Mhz Watch/Clock crystal which may also show up. From sglassburn at worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 30 21:14:15 2001 From: sglassburn at worldnet.att.net (Scott Glassburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: California Computer Systems (S-100) Message-ID: I am a novice to this class of computer. I have been given a near mint condition business CCS system with dual eight inch floppies. I am looking for some vintage references to help me learn the basics and schematics of these vintage bus types... I am well aware of the historical significance of these systems, but never have seen or used one before... I am a certified PC technician, and have had much experience with PC's and mainframes... I am excited to get this machine and would like to preserve it. This system includes manuals and schematics -- but I need an "S-100 for Dummies" type of reference to help me get started. I'd be glad to forward specifics if anyone has interest and patience.... Any replies would be appreciated... Very Kindly, Scott Glassburn (304)984-0559 sglassburn@att.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jul 30 21:18:14 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: References: <15205.57790.414835.188151@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010730221611.00a6e8b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:49 PM 7/30/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > And where in the US (other than maybe a private track or open desert) > do you > > > do 190 mph? Lats time I bounced my speedo off the 150 peg in my 70 > > ...this country is full of egomaniacal cops who are too lazy, > > scared, or inexperienced to actually [gasp] CATCH CRIMINALS...so they > > bitch about how people drive instead. > >Don't they want to use molten iron for that? Never! They'd elimenate their source of revenue and they'd also run out of victums ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H er,ah offenders and then they'd have to go catch the violent criminals or find another line of work! Joe From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jul 30 21:23:18 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151408@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3B661696.3E076F8D@texoma.net> I know it was! And most of the trim parts carry the Vw/Audi mark. Makes the ma lot easier to fin=d and cheaper too! Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > My 944 gets left at the stoplight all of the time by Detroit iron. But > > I'll catch them and pass them in any corner. > > That's because your 944 is really an Audi... > > If you don't believe that, I'll bet you it was > built in Ingolstadt... > > -dq From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Jul 30 21:34:52 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred Cisin wrote: [snip] > BTW, when marketing parts for those engines, would it be better to call > those parts "for Porsche" or "for VW"? For Porsche, clearly. I remember in the late 70's, when the Rabbit/Golf, Audi 5000 and Porsche 911SC were all sporting K-Jetronic. The injectors had the same Bosch part number but the Porsche part was almost twice as expensive as the part for the Golf. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jul 30 21:33:50 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151408@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <3B661696.3E076F8D@texoma.net> Message-ID: <3B66190E.9C0C5B8C@texoma.net> Damned old keyboard....My wife uses one of those "ergonomic" keyboards....can't type worth a damn on it! "James L. Rice" wrote: > > I know it was! And most of the trim parts carry the Vw/Audi mark. > Makes the ma lot easier to fin=d and cheaper too! > > Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > My 944 gets left at the stoplight all of the time by Detroit iron. But > > > I'll catch them and pass them in any corner. > > > > That's because your 944 is really an Audi... > > > > If you don't believe that, I'll bet you it was > > built in Ingolstadt... > > > > -dq From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 30 21:40:44 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: vaxstation video connector References: Message-ID: <01b901c1196a$3390cd00$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 12:47 AM Subject: vaxstation video connector > > Something I forgot to ask... is the db-15 connector on the VAXstation > 2000 the same pinout as that of the DECstation 3100? I'm just > wondering if the same type of cable/monitor used with the DECstation > can be used with the VAXstation. If anyone locates a spare for the VAXstation II/GPX I'm still looking for one. I have recently found a VR290 monitor to complete the machine but still need the cable. From terryc at woa.com.au Mon Jul 30 21:35:50 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: <1057.612T650T1383911optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B661986.614B32D7@woa.com.au> Iggy Drougge wrote: > > R. D. Davis skrev: ...snip... > The look on the face > >of a Porsche owner when an ancient rusting hulk of a US automobile > >embarrasses him by leaving him in the dust like that is quite funny to > >observe. ROFL!!! > > I saw a Volvo 740 on the cover of a car mag today which accelerated faster > than a Porsche 911. Actually, it isn't that hard to have faster acceleration than most cars {:-) well, at least across the intersection. Quite a few years ago I was heading into Newcastle, NSW, Australia along the main drag; Hunter Street on my bicycle when I came beside a TransAm or some such. The lights changed and I just pedalled off to be passed by this TransAm about 100 metres down the road. BUT there are ten sets of lights (or so) along Hunter Street and at each of these lights, the same scenario was played out. I didn't really become aware of it until the third set when the TransAm passed in high Revs mode, then I twigged that someone was getting his nickers in a knot that I was faster off the mark each time the lights changed. Needless to say, the competition was really on and the lights obliged where we both had to stop at all 10 lights. I successfully beat the TransAM across all 10 intersections. All he could do was shorten the time it took to catch me and spend longer time at the next red light. I wasn't riding a clunker or a racing bike, just my normal touring bicycle. To bring it back on topic - does anyone have any links to the guy who was touring USA by bicycle with onboard computing sometime in the 70/80's? -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 30 21:55:08 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: VMS setup Message-ID: <014901c1196c$8f744a50$3e769a8d@ajp166> From: Zane H. Healy >I'm going to have to disagree with Allison on this one. I strongly believe >that a VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000 is not a good system in this case. There >are two major problems that I see, both related to the disk interface. >You're stuck with a MFM disk, all of which are getting very old, and you >can't connect a CD-ROM. If you're only going to have one OpenVMS system, do >yourself a favor and get one with real SCSI! I just put it out there. A 3100 is a better choice for more moden disks and also a faster machine but it's possible to set up a MV2000 easily enough. There is a scsi interface on it and there are port patches and even rom patches out there for it. What makes the MV2000 appealing is they are often found for free! >Also, why V5.4? The preferred landing zone for V5.x is V5.5-2. Why 5.4... smaller footprint and a tiny bit more legacy support left in it. Though, V5.5 is a good version too, that one was simply overlooked. Allison From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 21:47:54 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Available In DFW Area In-Reply-To: <20010730170444.A29356@mrbill.net> Message-ID: Just to let you know - the system has been taken by the first person to respond. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Jul 30 21:34:52 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: Message-ID: <01f101c11969$615f98c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:25 AM Subject: RE: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) > The Vega was a misguided experiment in building a car that was intended to > last exactly as long as people "normally" kept them > It lasted 50K +/- 5K miles beautifully. Then it wore through the coating > of the cylinder walls, and in the space of another few feet of driving, > the pistons ate the aluminum block. Boggle! I never bought a car with less than several hundred thousand MILES on it in my life.. My Volvo has around 400,000km on the clock, but the odometer quit before I got it. The Renault has around 750,000km second time around. Cheers Geoff in Oz From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jul 30 22:13:01 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: California Computer Systems (S-100) Message-ID: <017e01c1196e$bb8e0bb0$3e769a8d@ajp166> Assuming the machine is complete it should be operable as I had two (gave one away) and the one I still have still works quite fine. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Scott Glassburn To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: California Computer Systems (S-100) >I am a novice to this class of computer. I have been given a near mint >condition business CCS system with dual eight inch floppies. I am looking >for some vintage references to help me learn the basics and schematics of >these vintage bus types... > >I am well aware of the historical significance of these systems, but never >have seen or used one before... > >I am a certified PC technician, and have had much experience with PC's and >mainframes... > >I am excited to get this machine and would like to preserve it. This system >includes manuals and schematics -- but I need an "S-100 for Dummies" type of >reference to help me get started. >I'd be glad to forward specifics if anyone has interest and patience.... > >Any replies would be appreciated... > >Very Kindly, >Scott Glassburn >(304)984-0559 >sglassburn@att.net > From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 30 22:26:14 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer References: Message-ID: <3B662555.6DC67241@tiac.net> I just took second place at VCF East with a HP 2114A built in 1969. But I also have a 2115 from 1968, and a 2116 from '69. Let me know if you need any assistance with your restoration. Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > Hello All, > > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the oldest > one I am restoring is a HP 2114B circa 1969. > > Luke > > From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Mon Jul 30 22:28:18 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer References: <011101c11954$cd033010$3e769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3B6625D2.BD625E78@bellsouth.net> ajp166 wrote: > > >> I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you > >> own. The oldest one I actually own is an apple II+ (1978?) and the > oldest > > PDP-8/f manufacture date 1973 > > Other include an Altair, TRS80 (rev-A board) > > Allison All this makes my 1979 vintage PDP-11/70 look relatively new :) -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Jul 30 22:52:22 2001 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: vaxstation video connector Message-ID: On 28 Jul, R. D. Davis wrote: > Something I forgot to ask... is the db-15 connector on the VAXstation > 2000 the same pinout as that of the DECstation 3100? DECstation 3100 cable, or rather the cable BC23J 1 - red 2 - ground 10 - green 11 - blue VAXstation 2000, or rather the cable BC18P The following taken from ringing out a cable some time back. At the time I did not know the actual pin numbers of the connectors, so I just assigned them myself. Keyboard connector: _______ | | | o o o o | ----------- k 1 2 3 4 Mouse connector: v m 7 6 5 o o o m 1 o --- o 4 > o o < m 2 3 1 - nc 2 - nc 3 - BNC shell 4 - m5 5 - m2 6 - m3 7 - k3 8 - k2 9 - video 10 - nc 11 - nc 12 - m1 13 - m4 14 - k1 15 - k4 And I think that somewhere around here is a couple spare BC18P cables. Mike From optimus at canit.se Mon Jul 30 23:51:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <604.612T1100T3514597optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> > Of course it's easy enough to replace the 8250 with a 16550. Desolder the >> > old chip and pop in the new one. >> >> Or replace the I/O card, or, if you are lucky, it's a dual serial card >Why would _anybody_, particularly on this list, replace a card rather >than replacing a single, easy-to-get 40 pin chip? Why not? Replacing the card would keep both intact, and it's not as though PC serial cards are uncommon by any means. They should be the runner up prize in our "tonne of 386'es" draw. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals. From rdd at smart.net Mon Jul 30 23:19:06 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Inexpensive lights & switches computers (was: Whats you..) In-Reply-To: <3B662555.6DC67241@tiac.net> Message-ID: Lucas J Cashdollar wrote: > I was just curious to know what was the oldest computer any of you [...] One of my oldest systems is an SF-5000. Does anyone know what this is? :-) Hint: it's over 20 years old, programmable, has lights and switches, and cost well under US$100 when it was new. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From chobbs at socal.rr.com Mon Jul 30 23:00:30 2001 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (charles hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT:Ebay sues "BidBay" References: <944.612T1500T925333optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3B662D5D.2DE3E530@socal.rr.com> http://www.inlandempireonline.com/technology/stories/073101/ebay.shtml From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Jul 30 23:30:22 2001 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 Available In DFW Area References: <003901c119a2$db61ca60$0101a8c0@jay> <20010730170404.Z29356@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B66345E.C7B5FD5@tiac.net> You just missed an 11/35, but its gone now. I had posted its availability on the list before VCF East, but got little interest. Bill Bradford wrote: > On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:26:18AM -0500, Jay West wrote: > > GRRRRRRRRRRR I would LOVE an 11/34 and two RK05's!!! > > Unfortunately, There's no way I can pick them up. If someone can get them on > > a pallet, I can pay a shipper to come pick them up perhaps? > > Jay West > > And speaking of that, would *anyone* have a "proper" -11/xx for sale > that has the REAL (blinkylights, toggle switches) front panel? I've > got a number of LSI-11 based stuff (11/03, /23, /73 boards, etc) for > partial trade... > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jul 30 23:24:01 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010729224844.032daeb0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <20010730113806.D13468-100000@localhost> PDP-11/20, Digital Equipment Corp., 1970 -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Mon Jul 30 23:32:46 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Free: Tandy 1000 TX Message-ID: <20010730232404.G13468-100000@localhost> Hey, I'm not sure how desirable this, but I figure someone on the list might have fun with it. I've got: Tandy 1000 Personal Computer TX w/keyboard Tandy High Resolution Color Monitor CM-11 Tandy Dot Matrix Printer DMP-132 It is available for pickup in Norman, Oklahoma, or it can be shipped (taker pays for shipping). If no one wants it here, it will be put up for auction on eBay. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 30 19:36:11 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010731043431.GSJO28593.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> I have two versions of same cards, Port D-shell connector is 4 rows of holes, almost whole length of this card bracket (might be length of 36pin D shell type but thicker), 12 SRAM chips on bottom edge forward of this 32bit MCA edge connector, 5 SRAM chips at top edge towards rear. Most of area covered are ceramic PLCC types in two sizes, smaller ones 28pin and larger ones is 68pin, both sizes has quartz window in all of them. What left is mostly TTL one PAL, two IBM ASICs and four smaller ones by that odd connector in Al cap, one custom labeled 68pin plastic PLCC made by intel. One has engineering jumper wires is 74F2872, other with one engineering jumper is 93F0931, other is 93F0930. It was pulled from 3172-001 (in custom black box based on model 80-Axx planar 386dx-25 w/ cache aka motherboard) What I can determine this is interconnect boxen or something. IBM is very vague about it. Right now no boxen, too heavy. This is not OT, this parts just cleared 10 yr rule. :-) If there is demand for these, I'd like to sell or trade them. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 30 19:36:11 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010731043106.HXZH2625.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> I have two versions of same cards, Port D-shell connector is 4 rows of holes, almost whole length of this card bracket (might be length of 36pin D shell type but thicker), 12 SRAM chips on bottom edge forward of this 32bit MCA edge connector, 5 SRAM chips at top edge towards rear. Most of area covered are ceramic PLCC types in two sizes, smaller ones 28pin and larger ones is 68pin, both sizes has quartz window in all of them. What left is mostly TTL one PAL, two IBM ASICs and four smaller ones by that odd connector in Al cap, one custom labeled 68pin plastic PLCC made by intel. One has engineering jumper wires is 74F2872, other with one engineering jumper is 93F0931, other is 93F0930. It was pulled from 3172-001 (in custom black box based on model 80-Axx planar 386dx-25 w/ cache aka motherboard) What I can determine this is interconnect boxen or something. IBM is very vague about it. Right now no boxen, too heavy. This is not OT, this parts just cleared 10 yr rule. :-) If there is demand for these, I'd like to sell or trade them. Cheers, Wizard From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jul 30 23:48:20 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <01f101c11969$615f98c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: > The Vega was a misguided experiment in building a car that was > intended to last exactly as long as people "normally" kept them > It lasted 50K +/- 5K miles beautifully. Then it wore through the > coating of the cylinder walls, and in the space of another few feet of > driving, the pistons ate the aluminum block. On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Boggle! > I never bought a car with less than several hundred thousand MILES on it > in my life.. > My Volvo has around 400,000km on the clock, but the odometer quit before > I got it. > The Renault has around 750,000km second time around. It sure wasn't intended for us! They had numbers that told them that people "normally" kept a new car for 50K. So, they designed the car to be reliable for exactly that long. Kinda like Canon downgrading the CX laser printer cartridge drum size when they came out with the SX. Except that Canon got away with that. GM saved a lot of money by making an aluminum block with a friction reducing coating (Teflon??). It worked well for a limited time. They didn't count on second owners with wornout 80K cars getting irate and telling the world. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Jul 30 23:52:05 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: <20010730.195259.186.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3B663969.DACCF7B0@eoni.com> Double Cab goto: for all your bus questions. Jim Jeff L Kaneko wrote: > > Hmm, interesting-- I always thought the 'Kombi' was a windowless > Bus-- you know, kinda like a panel truck. So, what *do* you call > the four door VW pickup truck? From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Jul 30 23:32:01 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <20010730.235508.-107067.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:55:39 -0700 (PDT) "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" writes: > It lasted 50K +/- 5K miles beautifully. Then it wore through the > coating of the cylinder walls, and in the space of another few feet of > driving, the pistons ate the aluminum block. Hey! I seen that happen once! A vega engine running on only *three* intact pistons definitely exemplifies the term 'klunker'. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 31 00:02:01 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > BTW, when marketing parts for those engines, would it be better to call > > those parts "for Porsche" or "for VW"? On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: > For Porsche, clearly. I remember in the late 70's, when the Rabbit/Golf, > Audi 5000 and Porsche 911SC were all sporting K-Jetronic. The injectors > had the same Bosch part number but the Porsche part was almost twice as > expensive as the part for the Golf. Actually, it was a rhetorical question - don't you hate those? Most mechanics consider it legit to charge the same price that the dealer does for parts, and can make a little more profit for themselves by finding cheaper sources for their inventory. Such as knowing which makes have the same part for less. Did you know (or care?) that the '58 Volvo uses the same brakes as a '54 Studebaker? Porsche mechanics tend to buy a lot of parts from VW suppliers. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Tue Jul 31 00:08:43 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: I am in the big newpaper today about my vintage computer collecting hobby...no link to me or my site but one to VCF... In-Reply-To: <00d101c11935$ce46ebc0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010730220843.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Well, Claude, you'll get it right when you get on the Globe and Mail, or the National Post. Then you'll get offers from all across Canada! Edwin At 04:25 PM 7/30/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Hi > >Well I am in the big Montreal newspaper today but no link to me (email) or >to my site... > >I was counting on this to get me offers for new machines - dont think its >gonna happen... > >They post a link to www.vintage.org (and others) but not to me (email or my >site) ! What did I do? > >Claude >http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector From terryc at woa.com.au Tue Jul 31 00:32:58 2001 From: terryc at woa.com.au (Terry Collins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. References: <20010731043431.GSJO28593.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3B66430A.5EE54D16@woa.com.au> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > I have two versions of same cards, > > Port D-shell connector is 4 rows of holes, almost whole length of > this card bracket (might be length of 36pin D shell type but > thicker), Just a 2c guess, would it be a Multi I/O card, like the digiboard or similar. I have * NCR 3434 boxen outside with similar ecternal connector and chip arrangement, although they are labelled as digiboards. -- Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au WOA Computer Services "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From CAA007216 at mail.ono.es Tue Jul 31 02:03:40 2001 From: CAA007216 at mail.ono.es (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:17 2005 Subject: Vaxstation/Microvax 2000 Eprom programming Message-ID: <489d9e48a572.48a572489d9e@ono.com> Hello. I'm actually working with one Microvax 2000, one Microvax 3100 and one RZ55 SCSI external enclosure with one 359 (more or less) SCSI disk inside. I have installed VMS 6.2 in the Microvax 3100. I've backed up the VM6 6.2 in the SCSI external disk, and I'd like to try boot this disk from the Microvax 2000. Until I know, is necessary to modify the EPROM with a patch that I have. The problem to do it is, of course, the WAY to do it. And this is the matter: * How can I update/patch the EPROM of one Microvax 2000 from version 1.2 A to version 2.3 (I think this is the version of the patch) to support SCSI bootable devices, like one installed in one RZ55 external enclosure ? One additional matter about this question is: * Exists another patch that allow to boot the system from one RDD40 external CD unit ? And, like a possibility to obtain some money: * I need one CADDY for my DEC RDD40 external CDROM unit. Is there anything out there ? Just by the way... Anybody knows where I could obtain this stuff for the 2000 ? That is: * One diskette unit (I think it goes inside CPU, but I'm not sure, and additionally I'd like to know, what happens then with the RD54 disk that comes inside it actually) * One external expansion box with one additional RD5x disk. I think it uses something like one SASI connector to plug into the 2000. * One additional RS-232 ports expansion unit. I've read that it provides the Microvax (or Vaxstation) 2000 with up to... Four / Eight ? additional comm ports. And finally, there is for Europe collector/sellers: I'm searching this stuff: * one DSD400 or DSD880 double 8" disquette unit * one RL02 disk unit (I have six RL02 cartridges ready to use) * one VT102 with interface cable BCC08 or similar * one TU58 tabletop tape unit with interface cable BCC08 or similar * TWO interface connector with one Female AMD 10-pin connector in one extreme, and one standard RS-232 9-pin in the other. Anybody knows/has/sells any of this items at reasonable prices, or simply legate them ( :-))) what innocence mine ... ) ? You can send the responses to my e-mail address if you consider it better. That's all for know. I'll agree a lot a response. Thanks. Greetings and best Regards from Spain Sergio From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Jul 31 02:58:35 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: I am in the big newpaper today about my vintage computer collecting hobby...no link to me or my site but one to VCF... References: <3.0.5.32.20010730220843.007d2100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <002101c11996$99a68360$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> > Well, Claude, you'll get it right when you get on the Globe and Mail, > or the National Post. Then you'll get offers from all across Canada! Well, lady reporter told me the pagesetting ("pupitre") got screwed up, says under photo of me I am in front of a SuperPET but never says what I am holding in my hands...and she had to cut some web addresses because of space limitations... I can only hope Ill get asked for interviews by other papers or mags and they will get it right...or maybe this is hopeless...Ill go back to my hermit anti-social life....(just kidding...) Claude > > Edwin > > At 04:25 PM 7/30/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi > > > >Well I am in the big Montreal newspaper today but no link to me (email) or > >to my site... > > > >I was counting on this to get me offers for new machines - dont think its > >gonna happen... > > > >They post a link to www.vintage.org (and others) but not to me (email or my > >site) ! What did I do? > > > >Claude > >http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 31 02:51:07 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. In-Reply-To: <20010731043431.GSJO28593.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200107310751.JAA24122@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 31 Jul, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > It was pulled from 3172-001 (in custom black box based on model > 80-Axx planar 386dx-25 w/ cache aka motherboard) What I can > determine this is interconnect boxen or something. IBM is very vague > about it. Right now no boxen, too heavy. If you own a MCA PC get QBMCA, a MCA card ID sniffer, from http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm and you will be enlightened. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 31 02:56:37 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: vaxstation video connector In-Reply-To: <583.612T2750T1476163optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <200107310756.JAA24128@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 31 Jul, Iggy Drougge wrote: > How about the II/GPX and the DS5000/200? I hear that's not a good couple. Yes. Somwhere along the VS3100 to VS4k / DS5k way the pinout was changed. So the later DS5k PMAX are identical to AFAIK the VS4k{6,9} pinout, that does not match the VS3100 / VS II GPX pinout. But I may be wrong here. Have a look into the DEC cable page at the VAXarchive. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Jul 31 03:03:25 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system In-Reply-To: <1772.612T1200T1225273optimus@canit.se> References: <3B6558AD.30276.10216CA1@localhost> Message-ID: <3B66826D.24561.14AC7F45@localhost> > >> >One of my crazy ideas is how to solve the internationalization problem. > >> >Use extended ASCII or some now 8-bit-wided character set, and declare > >> >English to be the official international language of the platform. Screw > >> >this Unicode crap. > >> Great idea, Geoff. Oh, wait, there is already such a system... I think it > >> starts with a U, the there's an X in the back... > >> I welcome Unicode. Everyone should, since it would solve this > >> internationalisation problem. > >Jep. Unicode is, for most circumstances a real relif. > >BTW: the 9900 looks like a great Unicode machine - eventualy > >one should drop all this unnecersary byte operation :) > 9900 what? Texas Instruments TMS 9900 and it's brothers ans sisters. AK TI 990/xx The CPU used for example in the TI 99/4, or the Tomy Tutor. A nice clean 16 Bit design. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jul 31 02:08:51 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. References: <20010731043431.GSJO28593.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <3B66430A.5EE54D16@woa.com.au> Message-ID: <3B665983.849A8D3A@internet1.net> That was my first thought too. I have 2 Digiboards here, However. The 4 port board has 4 big uart chips on it and is only a 16-bit card. The 16 port board doesn't have the same connector.... it uses ribbon cable. Maybe he has an IBM Portmaster? Plugging it in to see what ADF it asks for, is what I would do! Neither one of my Digiboards will work on my Reply Powerboard, the 16 port board won't even let the computer show any video, anybody else have any problems like that? I don't have an IBM planer to try. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Terry Collins wrote: > Just a 2c guess, would it be a Multi I/O card, like the digiboard or > similar. I have * NCR 3434 boxen outside with similar ecternal connector > and chip arrangement, although they are labelled as digiboards. > > -- > Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861 > email: terryc@woa.com.au www: http://www.woa.com.au > WOA Computer Services > > "People without trees are like fish without clean water" From Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com Tue Jul 31 03:20:40 2001 From: Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: VMS Setup Message-ID: Thanks for all the replies re the desktop VMS setup. Sounds like I need some type of VAXstation 4000, I haven't seen any pop up on the UK Ebay site but no doubt a bit of resourceful googling will turn something up :-) Thanks again! Al From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 31 06:08:13 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715140D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >I'm pretty sure the Cosworth's used the older iron 4cyl block, > >not the first-stab-at-the-Alcoa process, which Porsche used quite > >successfully in the 928... > > Maybe the street Vega's had it in iron, but the race engine > that was used for other things, but based on the Vega engine, was > definately aluminum. The article I mentioned talked about their > sleeving process. I didn't care for the car much, but I wanted the > engine.... The original process was supposed to put a layer of something other than aluminum on the inside of the cylinder walls... I want to say silicon, but that can't be right... But the process was producing blocks that cracked a lot. So that's when they came up with the sleeving process. Too late though for my '71, to which I'd taken an axe (Careful with that Axe, Eugene...). Choppingly yours, -doug q From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jul 31 08:04:33 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system In-Reply-To: <3B66826D.24561.14AC7F45@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Jul 31, 1 10:03:25 am" Message-ID: <200107311304.GAA07730@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Texas Instruments TMS 9900 and it's brothers ans sisters. > AK TI 990/xx > > The CPU used for example in the TI 99/4, or the Tomy Tutor. The 9995 in the TT is even nicer, with a 256-byte on chip RAM "register cache". -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away. ------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jul 31 08:22:49 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: test Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37151410@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> test From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 08:49:56 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Vaxstation/Microvax 2000 Eprom programming In-Reply-To: <489d9e48a572.48a572489d9e@ono.com> Message-ID: <20010731134956.88536.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > Hello. I'm actually working with one Microvax 2000... Until I know, is > necessary to modify the EPROM with a patch that I have. The problem to > do it is, of course, the WAY to do it. And this is the matter: > > * How can I update/patch the EPROM of one Microvax 2000 from version > 1.2 A to version 2.3 (I think this is the version of the patch) to > support SCSI bootable devices, like one installed in one RZ55 > external enclosure ? I'm in the same boat. I have ancient ROMs, the same patch you probably have and a patched 32-bit file that isn't split up into 4 parts. I got a ROM splitter routine from somewhere and did the cut, but without sitting around and switching out ROMs from socket to socket (at least one of the pins on one is starting to go), I'm stalled. Maybe if I installed four ZIF sockets... > Just by the way... Anybody knows where I could obtain this stuff for > the 2000 ? That is: > > * One diskette unit (I think it goes inside CPU, but I'm not sure, and > additionally I'd like to know, what happens then with the RD54 disk > that comes inside it actually) You can't have a floppy drive and a full-height hard drive in the same box. I don't know if the PSU could take it, but there's room for, say an RD-32 (ST-251-1 @ 40Mb) and an RX33 (Teac FD-55-GFR) in the same box, but you might have to modify the internal bracket. > * One external expansion box with one additional RD5x disk. I think > it uses something like one SASI connector to plug into the 2000. It's a DD50P, like Sun used to use with Sun3-era SCSI. You have to have this extra expansion skirt at the bottom of your MicroVAX 2000 that houses a small circuit board. You would also need a corresponding external RD54 enclosure for the other end of the cable. It's MFM signals, over a single 50-pin cable. My first uVAX 2000 had the skirt - it came with two RD54 drives and a DHT32 serial expansion. I got the box because the client asked me how much it would cost to double the number of terminals in the office. I gave them a quote and they asked me how much they could get for the system. They wanted 3x what it was worth, so I waited and a year later, I offered them _half_ of what I'd offered them in the first place and they took it (the astute reader will note that they got 1/6th of what they originally wanted; I think they originally asked about $2000 (this was many years ago - they replaced the uVAX with a Novell network of DOS machines) ISTR paying them about as much for the entire system as an RD54 drive sold for retail at the time. Oh... that included 6 VT320s which I sold to a DEC reseller on the way home from the client. I think my out-of- pocket cost was under $200 for what I kept). > * One additional RS-232 ports expansion unit. I've read that it provides > the Microvax (or Vaxstation) 2000 with up to... Four / Eight ? > additional comm ports. Eight. It's a DHT-32. Very rare. You are probably better off trying to find a terminal server. It's not the same, but they are more common. I never got mine working because the 36-pin interface cable and the harmonica were apparently left in the ceiling when they moved during that year they sat on the machine. I got a cable and what I thought was the right harmonica, but apparently I am mistaken. Does anyone have any docs on the DHT-32? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 31 09:00:56 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: VCFE Message-ID: Did anyone find a black leather wallet at VCFE? Peace... Sridhar From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jul 31 09:12:30 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer References: <003e01c11935$3279f8e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3B66BCCE.B2230E00@idirect.com> >Sipke de Wal wrote: > I've got a PDP11/05 with 8K-words of core-memory. > I dont know when it was produced but I guess it would be > from somewhere between 1973-1975. Jerome Fine replies: I seem to remember that was the first Unibus PDP-11 I used in 1975. Does yours system still work? Do you have disk drives or paper tape? Do you use an operating system? RT-11? Would you like a copy of RT-11 that will work with your hardware? It will be a bit difficult with so little memory, but probably possible. But it does require at least a floppy disk drive or an RK05/RL01/RL02 or even a TU-58 if you have an RS-232 serial port (you could toggle in the TU-58 boot program instead of the one for the RK05). That was the one thing about the PDP-11/05 that was really handy - the boot program in core memory could be easily changed and did not disappear when the power was turned off. Of course, I can't ever remember doing that in the 3 years that I used the PDP-11/05 since the RK05 drives were the only ones it ever had. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From kapteynr at cboe.com Tue Jul 31 09:46:50 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Printers used with Altair Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DE5C@msx1.cboe.com> The printer that I would have loved to have for the Altair would have been an ASR-33 teletype machine. That was becasue it was a combined Printer/keyboard/paper tape reader/paper tape punch. You must remember that the original Altair BASIC was ONLY supplied on paper tape. ROM cards came later. There were no fonts or font styles on any popular printer at the time. That would have been a ridiculous luxury for a computer that needed only 8K of memory to run BASIC. In fact -- most printers of the day -- including the ASR-33 were UPPER CASE only. I could not afford an ASR-33 at the time. At first we had a VDM-1 video display module connected to an old TV set and a surplus keyboard (in a wooden box)attached to a parallel port. To load Altair BASIC, I got an optical paper tape reader on a parallel port. Each time we loaded Altair BASIC, we had to manully patch it through the front panel switches to work with the VDM-1. For hard copy, we later got a surplus Friden Flexowriter from Herbach & Rademan in PA and converted it from Baudot to ASCII. Hope this gives you a better idea what a "personal computer" really was in 1975. Does your Altair emulator include VDM-1 emulation ? This had some really cool extended character sets for drawing character graphics on the screen. Seeing this emulated (with Altair BASIC) would give me flashback chills :-) -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Cini, Richard [SMTP:RCini@congressfinancial.com] Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:26 PM To: 'ClassCompList' Subject: Printers used with Altair Hello, all: Well, I'm bored again and am looking at the Altair emulator code. There's room for enhancement in the line printer support code to support control characters of certain printers. So, here's the question. If I were a purchaser of an Altair in 1977, which printer would I have purchased? What control code would it have interpreted? Were the early printers sophisticated enough to recognize "bold", "underline" or "italic"? Maybe instead of sending the printer output to a text file, I can create an HTML file on the fly that supports the formatting codes with tags. Rich From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Jul 31 09:56:15 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller Message-ID: Does anybody in the Washington DC area have an HVD SCSI setup that I could test some drives on before I spend money on a controller? Alternatively, does anybody have a PCI HVD SCSI controller that they would sell cheap (_really_ cheap) or trade for some vintage stuff? Thanks, Bill From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Jul 31 10:02:40 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east Message-ID: Brief article with a few pics: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45699,00.html From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Jul 31 10:17:59 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Utterly OT: Vega engines (was: RE: Cheap cars (was: 1%...)) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3715140D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Douglas Quebbeman wrote (re Vegas): > The original process was supposed to put a layer of something > other than aluminum on the inside of the cylinder walls... I > want to say silicon, but that can't be right... You're close! In fact the Chilton book for the Vega discussed the process for doing so in the field after honing the cylinders. In essence you took a chunk of Teflon (available under a GM part number), chucked it into a drill and used it to polish the cylinder walls. The Vega (1970 -- or was it 71? Motor Trend "Car of the Year") was supposed to have Detroit's first rotary engine. When they couldn't figure out the apex seal problem they tossed that 2.3L thing into the car. I've always asserted that the Vega engine looked like a project done by a bunch of new grads -- it had all sorts of nifty textbook ideas that don't work terribly well in the field assembled in one place: - A sleeveless aluminum block. Great idea on engines designed to run for one race, awful for a street car. - "Bathtub" block cooling rather than lots of cooling passages. Rather than a big hunk of metal with water jackets around the cylinders, the Vega block is essentially a rectangular tub. Cylinders one and four are attached to the front and back ends of the block, while two and three are siamesed together and rise out of the bottom of the block like the Hawaiian islands from the Pacific. Coolant fills the rest of the void. The notion here was that you eliminate metal (hence weight) and simplify the casting process. The problem is that with limited cooling between two and three those two cylinders tended to "sink" back towards the bottom of the block. Again, great for a race car, awful for a street car. - A cast iron head. I'm not sure who thought that the combination of a cast iron head and an aluminum block was a good idea, but between the difference in thermal expansion rates and the tendency for cylinders two and three to "sink", Vegas blew a lot of head gaskets. Enough so that a special replacement gasket appeared on the aftermarket that was thicker around numbers two and three. - An overhead cam that directly drove onto cam followers that didn't need shims. Great idea; no longer do you have to remove the camshaft in order to set the valve lash. Stick a hex wrench in a hole on the side of the follower and turn, just don't turn too far because we forgot to put a stop on it and you can send the adjuster out the other side of the follower, where it will jam the follower in the "down" position the first time the cam hits it. - A rubber timing belt that was tensioned by the water pump. The precursor of the serpentine belt that plagues -er- more contemporary vehicles. - The "vacuum leak center". The Vega appeared at the beginning of the 70's, a period wherein, rather than addressing the underlying issue of meeting emissions by making engines run right, Detroit applied a series of kludges, almost always in the form of assorted and sundry vacuum delay valves and vacuum motors. The result was a generation of induction systems that could do parlor tricks with exhaust gas but didn't have a clue when it came to a cup of high-test, and as implemented on the Vega came in the form of a collection of valves and hoses that invariably leaked under transient and difficult to reproduce conditions. All in all, it really was a _terrible_ piece of engineering. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Jul 31 10:28:45 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: OT justice (flamebait) and cars In-Reply-To: <200107310200.VAA87799@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: OOooopsie. Guess we would have had to issue a formal posthumous apology. But it was an honest mistake, Dick, it sure *sounded* like an unprompted admission of guilt. The important thing, though, is it would serve as a strong disincentive to future illegal dumpster-divers. :-) >From: "Richard Erlacher" > >...What's lying in the alley NEXT TO the dumpster because you or someone else >failed to put it in the dumpster is another matter. It is, after all, in the >public right-of-way.... > >Dick > >- ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sellam Ismail" > >> On Sat, 28 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >> > No, though I've put a few in there. I have gotten some pretty good bridge >> > controllers, etc, from the dumpster's overflow. >> >> GUILTY!!! >> >> Send him to the molten iron vat! OB cars: 68 Plymouth Sport Suburban (think Fury III wagon). 5.2L (318 cu. in.). 100 mph on 280, in Sunnyvale. Not smart, but got away with it. 120 mph on 290 west of Dripping Springs, Texas. Got away with that too, of course. (Wups! Molten iron vat, here I come.) 220,000 mi, same engine but one rebuild. I'll take on *any* of you guys in a passenger-miles per hour contest - I have seat belts for 8 and have put 11 in the car at one time. Wife's car is a 2000 Dodge Sport Caravan. 3.3L, will burn E85 ethanol but they don't *&$& sell it in Texas! Sigh. Yes it has the spoiler on the back end, and no it's not useless - it provides some shade for the back window. Sigh. 1.5 years old, only been in the shop for recommended oil changes. One of the stereo speakers is out, but that's the only problem so far. I'll be good - next post will be about computers. I promise. - Mark From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jul 31 10:40:59 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: ; from bills@adrenaline.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 11:02:40AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010731104059.K29356@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 11:02:40AM -0400, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Brief article with a few pics: > http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45699,00.html Wow - Megan, got any more details on that "laptop" ? I dont see it listed on your web page.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 31 10:53:32 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Vaxstation/Microvax 2000 Eprom programming In-Reply-To: <489d9e48a572.48a572489d9e@ono.com> Message-ID: <200107311553.RAA24908@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 31 Jul, Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > * How can I update/patch the EPROM of one Microvax 2000 from version > 1.2 A to version 2.3 Get a MV2k with PROM 2.3, read the EPROMs, burn new EPROMs and put them into your vers. 1.2 MV2k. > * One diskette unit You can use a generic PeeCee floppy. I connected a Mitsumi D509V3 and it just worked. See the well known third-party-disks.txt also. > (I think it goes inside CPU Yes. But you can crimp a new, longer cable to put it outside the box. > * One external expansion box with one additional RD5x disk. I think > it uses something like one SASI connector to plug into the 2000. There exists a pizza box that is screwed below the CPU box. It contains only connectors for a external RDxx disk and the "SCSI" tape port. Again: You can crimp your own cabels and route them through the opening at the bottom of the MV2k. I did this to connect various RDxx disks "on the fly" for low level formating. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 11:07:04 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: new URL In-Reply-To: <20010731104059.K29356@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <01Jul31.121430edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> For those of you that have links to it or whatnot, my website has it's own domain now and is at: http://www.cchaven.com Thanks Jeff From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Jul 31 11:33:04 2001 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) Message-ID: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> I just picked up a DEC VT180 that seems to work except that it came with no software. Does anyone know where I can get a CP/M boot disk for it and/or the diagnostic disk? Thanks, David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jul 31 11:27:15 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. References: <20010731043431.GSJO28593.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3B66DC63.551AE188@internet1.net> Wizard, Will you be keeping the custom black box? :-) I'd like to see pictures of it, if you can do that easily. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > It was pulled from 3172-001 (in custom black box based on model > 80-Axx planar 386dx-25 w/ cache aka motherboard) What I can > determine this is interconnect boxen or something. IBM is very vague > about it. Right now no boxen, too heavy. > > This is not OT, this parts just cleared 10 yr rule. :-) > > If there is demand for these, I'd like to sell or trade them. > > Cheers, > > Wizard From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jul 31 11:28:51 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: References: <01f101c11969$615f98c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010731120603.00a60080@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:48 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Fred wrote: >GM saved a lot of money by making an aluminum block with a friction >reducing coating (Teflon??). It worked well for a limited time. Actually they didn't add a coating to the cylinder wall. What they did was to make the engine out of high silicon aluminium, then they chemically etched away some the aluminium in the cylinders to leave high-silicon content for the pistons to ride on. This was GM attempt to get away from having to add steel cylinder sleeves to an otherwise aluminium engine block. (You CAN NOT run aluminium against aluminium.) Needless to say this design was highly dependent on high quality oil, frequent oil changes and a GOOD oiling system. Unfortunately the oil pump and oil system were a joke and Americans aren't known for frequent car maintainance. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jul 31 11:31:40 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <604.612T1100T3514597optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010731122940.00a75170@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:51 AM 7/31/01 +0100, you wrote: >Tony Duell skrev: > > >> > Of course it's easy enough to replace the 8250 with a 16550. > Desolder the > >> > old chip and pop in the new one. > >> > >> Or replace the I/O card, or, if you are lucky, it's a dual serial card > > >Why would _anybody_, particularly on this list, replace a card rather > >than replacing a single, easy-to-get 40 pin chip? Because I can get ALL the cards that I want for free and a chip would cost money and the time to install it. Yes, I could chnage the IC but why bother? I have better things to spend my time on. Joe From fernande at internet1.net Tue Jul 31 11:37:54 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Utterly OT: Vega engines (was: RE: Cheap cars (was: 1%...)) References: Message-ID: <3B66DEE2.DA158817@internet1.net> Chris Kennedy wrote: > - A cast iron head. I'm not sure who thought that the combination of > a cast iron head and an aluminum block was a good idea, but > between the difference in thermal expansion rates and the tendency > for cylinders two and three to "sink", Vegas blew a lot of head > gaskets. Enough so that a special replacement gasket appeared on > the aftermarket that was thicker around numbers two and three. The 80's Caddy 4.x liter engine used cast iron heads on an aluminum block as well. It isn't known as a good engine either. > - The "vacuum leak center". The Vega appeared at the beginning of > the 70's, a period wherein, rather than addressing the underlying > issue of meeting emissions by making engines run right, Detroit > applied a series of kludges, almost always in the form of assorted > and sundry vacuum delay valves and vacuum motors. The result was > a generation of induction systems that could do parlor tricks with > exhaust gas but didn't have a clue when it came to a cup of high-test, > and as implemented on the Vega came in the form of a collection of > valves and hoses that invariably leaked under transient and > difficult to reproduce conditions. The 70's were the very beginning of smog equipment being mandatory on cars. I think it is reasonable that the smog equipment didn't work the best, was horrible to work on, and was a plumbers nightmare. It's gotten a lot better, as they have gained experience with it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Jul 31 14:00:01 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> Message-ID: <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> Well, It finally is there, my own PDP 11/70, in working condition and with 1Mb in the memory box. The machine is placed in 1 H960 cabinet and has the original 11/70 top faceplate. I picked it up last Friday in the UK near London, and the whole trip did take 23 hours, including 2 two hour ferry trips. With it I got the documentation, engineering diagrams and a complete set of spare cpu boards. Although the machine is is working conditions, I will of course go through the (unpublished) list of steps before I apply the power to the backplane. Since the two bulk supplies are having 8 H744's (25A versions) I was just wondering about the feasebility of replacing them with standard PC XT power supplies (just for the 5V), as the usually deliver also between 25A and 30A, depending on the model. The large transformer in the bulk supply will then be replaced with a smaller transformer to deliver the LTC, DCLO, ACLO and +15V via the power monitor module which is still there. Since I'm not going to use MASSBUS devices, two modules could be removed as they power a part of the MASSBUS backplane section. Of course, all the pins of the backplane will be checked and straightened if needed, and the card connectors will be vacumed before replacing the cards. Any other tips I may need? Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From jrice at texoma.net Tue Jul 31 11:57:36 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) References: <01f101c11969$615f98c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <5.1.0.14.1.20010731120603.00a60080@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3B66E380.E8744FAB@texoma.net> This is the same process used by Porsche and Mahle to cast the 924 and 944/968 engines. The problem was in the casting process. GM tried to cool the blocks too fast which led to uneven distribution of silicon in the aluminum cylinder wall. Porsche and Mahle used the same process, but put heaters in the cores of the cylinder molds to slowly allow that walls to cool. This allowed the silicon to evenly distribute in the wall. I had the head off my 944 at 145k miles and the cylinder still had hone marks with no visible wear or ridge at the top cylinder wall. Now at over 300k miles, the compression is starting to drop. Probably needs new rings. joe wrote: > > At 09:48 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Fred wrote: > > >GM saved a lot of money by making an aluminum block with a friction > >reducing coating (Teflon??). It worked well for a limited time. > > Actually they didn't add a coating to the cylinder wall. What they did > was to make the engine out of high silicon aluminium, then they chemically > etched away some the aluminium in the cylinders to leave high-silicon > content for the pistons to ride on. This was GM attempt to get away from > having to add steel cylinder sleeves to an otherwise aluminium engine > block. (You CAN NOT run aluminium against aluminium.) Needless to say this > design was highly dependent on high quality oil, frequent oil changes and a > GOOD oiling system. Unfortunately the oil pump and oil system were a joke > and Americans aren't known for frequent car maintainance. > > Joe From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 31 12:03:11 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010731122940.00a75170@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001701c119e2$ae043860$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm with Joe on this one. I can go out any day of the week and buy I/O boards for $2/dozen, or, certainly, for <$2 and the 8250/16C450/16C550 always costs more than that. These typically have TWO 8250's or whichever equvalent is used on them. The risk of damage to these extremely low-quality boards, since they got to be so cheap by cutting the quality, when unsoldering parts is pretty great, and, if I were going to do that, I'd probably use a torch, which would ruin the board anyway, expose me to toxic fumes, etc. It seems pretty silly to me to spend time and resources fixing a <$1 board when replacing the IC borders on 10x the cost and inconvenience. It's not a scarce board like one from an old PDP-5. These things were turned out at rates on the order 5K per hour, from dozens of vendors and there are still millions of them lying about in junk boxes everywhere. If you really like desoldering parts, then your time is better spent salvaging parts that can be reused rather than desoldering known bad parts. Leave the bad parts in the board and desolder the good ones. It will be another decade before PC I/O boards are scarce, so I'm only saving a few. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:31 AM Subject: Re: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... > At 05:51 AM 7/31/01 +0100, you wrote: > >Tony Duell skrev: > > > > >> > Of course it's easy enough to replace the 8250 with a 16550. > > Desolder the > > >> > old chip and pop in the new one. > > >> > > >> Or replace the I/O card, or, if you are lucky, it's a dual serial card > > > > >Why would _anybody_, particularly on this list, replace a card rather > > >than replacing a single, easy-to-get 40 pin chip? > > Because I can get ALL the cards that I want for free and a chip would > cost money and the time to install it. Yes, I could chnage the IC but why > bother? I have better things to spend my time on. > > Joe > > > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com Tue Jul 31 12:03:41 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) In-Reply-To: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> from David Betz at "Jul 31, 2001 12:33:04 pm" Message-ID: <200107311703.f6VH3f463212@bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com> > I just picked up a DEC VT180 that seems to work except that it came with no > software. Does anyone know where I can get a CP/M boot disk for it and/or > the diagnostic disk? > > Thanks, > David Betz > dbetz@xlisper.mv.com Sure... drop me your mailing address. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com Tue Jul 31 12:06:42 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: from Bill Sudbrink at "Jul 31, 2001 10:56:15 am" Message-ID: <200107311706.f6VH6gq63277@bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com> > Does anybody in the Washington DC area have an HVD SCSI setup > that I could test some drives on before I spend money on a > controller? > > Alternatively, does anybody have a PCI HVD SCSI controller > that they would sell cheap (_really_ cheap) or trade for > some vintage stuff? > > Thanks, > Bill I've got a HVD to SE converter or two... Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jul 31 12:32:58 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl>; from quapla@xs4all.nl on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:00:01PM +0000 References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:00:01PM +0000, wanderer wrote: > Since the two bulk supplies are having 8 H744's (25A versions) I was > just wondering about the feasebility of replacing them with standard > PC XT power supplies (just for the 5V), as the usually deliver also > between 25A and 30A, depending on the model. The large transformer in > the bulk supply will then be replaced with a smaller transformer to > deliver the LTC, DCLO, ACLO and +15V via the power monitor module > which is still there. How can a normal PC XT power supply deliver 25-30A, when its plugged into a normal 15A wall socket? Or is the amperage way different in the UK? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jss at subatomix.com Tue Jul 31 12:41:38 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010731124002.G19710-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, wanderer wrote: > > It finally is there, my own PDP 11/70 Grats! My own personal 11/70 is still being elusive, but it's out there somewhere. I'll find it someday! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From dsegel at pacbell.net Mon Jul 30 10:51:36 2001 From: dsegel at pacbell.net (Daniel A. Segel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Bought for $3 - MPX16 plus needs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010730080657.00a87ec0@postoffice.pacbell.net> I have the 1/83 issues sitting right behind me as I type...it has a great ad on the back cover with Isaac Asimov hawking the TRS-80 Model III - "Radio Shack's TRS-80 Computer is the smartest way to Write." Part 3 of the series is here, and it's the last part. The next project was a single-line LCD display. Let me know if you'd like a copy of the article, it would be 17 pages including the schematics, or more if I included the full-page ads in between editorial content. Daniel At 09:14 PM 07/28/2001 -0400, you wrote: > I have the first two parts of the series (11/82 and 12/82), but I'm missing >the 1/83 issue and possibly later (I don't know how many issues the article >ran). For 1983, I only have beginning in July. > > If anyone has the remaining issues (except Sam -- based on the photos shown >at VCFE, I'm sure that he couldn't find them :-)) containing articles, >please contact me off-list. Thanks a lot. > >Rich > >Rich Cini >Collector of classic computers >Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project >Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >/************************************************************/ -- "Being humble is why I'm a great person." Daniel A. Segel dsegel@pacbell.net From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jul 31 12:48:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller References: <200107311706.f6VH6gq63277@bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <003a01c119e8$fe87bc20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Really!?? Which type (i.e. which termination arrangement) are these? Do they go on the target device or on the controller? Are they wide or narrow? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Pechter" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:06 AM Subject: Re: OT: HVD SCSI controller > > Does anybody in the Washington DC area have an HVD SCSI setup > > that I could test some drives on before I spend money on a > > controller? > > > > Alternatively, does anybody have a PCI HVD SCSI controller > > that they would sell cheap (_really_ cheap) or trade for > > some vintage stuff? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > I've got a HVD to SE converter or two... > > Bill > > --- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 31 12:36:08 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: OT justice (flamebait) and cars In-Reply-To: References: <200107310200.VAA87799@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010731123518.0268b220@pc> At 10:28 AM 7/31/01 -0500, Mark Tapley wrote: >OOooopsie. Guess we would have had to issue a formal posthumous apology. >But it was an honest mistake, Dick, it sure *sounded* like an unprompted >admission of guilt. The important thing, though, is it would serve as a >strong disincentive to future illegal dumpster-divers. For violators where we're pretty sure but not quite sure of guilt, perhaps a vat of molten recycled steel would be fair. - John From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 31 13:18:38 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20010731120603.00a60080@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > and Americans aren't known for frequent car maintainance. There was a time when frequent car maintenance was easier and more convenient for Americans who aren't shade-tree mechanics. What I'm referring to is the scarcity these days of convenient places to get a tune-up, grease job and oil change. Places like Jiffy Lube don't count, as they're as likely to damage a car as they are to change the oil, etc. properly. Not so long ago, there was a higher percentage of corner gas stations, with more than one mechanic working in them, to cars. One could often just drive up to a service station, pull into a bay, and get a car repaired without having to drop it off or make an appointment. Even finding a mechanic who can perform a tune up is becoming difficult; many don't know how to adjust points or carburators, and one can forget about having the dwell adjusted or getting a distributor curved; one shop that I called about the later had no idea as to what I was talking about. If they'd get all these new cars with ridiculously overly complex engines off the road and put carburators and distributors with points back in cars, people would have fewer problems with maintenance and finding parts 20 years later. Of course, Big Brother wouldn't like that, as the old cars can't be stopped by a high-energy blast that makes electronic components in the new engines break down. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jul 31 08:31:00 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. In-Reply-To: <3B66DC63.551AE188@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010731174125.BACP18526.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:27:15 -0400 > From: Chad Fernandez > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM MCA card to ID. > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Wizard, > > Will you be keeping the custom black box? :-) I'd like to see pictures > of it, if you can do that easily. As I said, it is just simple black large box made for IBM, no provisions for mounting HDs, requires 220V power ONLY, front is HEX keypad w/ 4 digit LED (small!) Basically, oversized box to shuttle data between two different connections, basically to hold PSU, motherboard and all 8 cards, there's no openings for the I/O ports like vga, etc. To mount a little hd 30MB (!!) IBM used a MCA pass through card w/ MCA HD mounted on it, then it's plugged into topmost slot and kept in place from wobbling via a simple bent piece of sheetmetal and three screws. Two on card, one to chassis. It's made of heavy gauge steel so it is HEAVY and large. appox 9U rack but it doesn't have holes for rack ears so I left it behind. Top 4 screws uncrews 1/4 turn, take off top plate for card access. Loosen but not remove 8 screws (4 per side, slide them off by pulling upwards if needed for better access to other parts. Later 3172's (002 and 003) is based on 85 or 95 motherboard using dx2 50 complex card and at minimum 8MB installed. Newer boxens are now much efficient and vastly compact than this early days types. Cheers, Wizard > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 31 13:33:03 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: OT justice (flamebait) and cars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Mark Tapley wrote: > OB cars: 68 Plymouth Sport Suburban (think Fury III wagon). 5.2L (318 cu. > in.). 100 mph on 280, in Sunnyvale. Not smart, but got away with it. 120 Finally, someone here is mentioning a nice car! :-) All that talk of those little Porsches, Audis and BMWs was becoming rather nauseating. Note: I've got a '67 VW Beetle, but at least it never pretended to be anything that it wasn't, unlike those overpriced, pretentious, European cars. I'll bet that some people hot-rodded VW beetles, and tinkered with the handling, to outperform Porsches without spending what it cost to buy a Porsche. It's funny that some people would pay more for a little Mercedes than a big, comfortable, and solidly built, Cadillac or Lincoln would cost. > I'll be good - next post will be about computers. I promise. Me too. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 31 13:34:49 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > How can a normal PC XT power supply deliver 25-30A, when its plugged > into a normal 15A wall socket? Or is the amperage way different in > the UK? P = I x E -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu Tue Jul 31 13:20:10 2001 From: jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Fastpath 4 boxes available In-Reply-To: ; from SUPRDAVE@aol.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 02:39:03PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010731132010.A3069@mastif> Hello - Sorry for taking so long to reply. The FRUs: 92F0160 microchannel SCSI card. External connector. N80C186-20 52G2717 microchannel sound card.TMS320M520PQL. Both came from a model 9577 computer. John On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 02:39:03PM -0400, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/13/01 1:30:09 PM Central Daylight Time, > jott@mastif.ee.nd.edu writes: > > << I have a micro channel 3com etherlink II and sound card for trade. They > came out of an IBM ps/2 model 77. > >> > have you any details on the sound card? FRU number, or name of it. -- ************************************************************************ * * * * John Ott * Email: jott@hamming.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * Fax: (219) 631-9924 * * * * ************************************************************************ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 13:26:23 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010731182623.14673.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Bradford wrote: > On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:00:01PM +0000, wanderer wrote: > > Since the two bulk supplies are having 8 H744's (25A versions) I was > > just wondering about the feasebility of replacing them with standard > > PC XT power supplies (just for the 5V), as the usually deliver also > > between 25A and 30A, depending on the model. The large transformer in > > the bulk supply will then be replaced with a smaller transformer to > > deliver the LTC, DCLO, ACLO and +15V via the power monitor module > > which is still there. > > How can a normal PC XT power supply deliver 25-30A, when its plugged > into a normal 15A wall socket? Or is the amperage way different in > the UK? P = IE - Power == Amps x Volts A 300W PC PSU will pull up to ~3A @ 110V, and will produce something less than 60A of the various DC voltages due to loss to heat. He means 25-30A @ +5VDC. Some PSUs list on the side of the enclosure what the max draw is at a particular voltage. Older supplies were beefier at +12VDC because of full-height disk drives. Now, +5VDC and +3.3VDC are what the chips want; the disk drive is <20W of +5VDC and +12VDC combined. Would it be worth protecting the PSUs from each other through a high-power diode? The worry is that if one goes south, it'll take the rest (and the machine) with it. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jul 31 13:22:55 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> References: <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010731132255.009f86f0@ubanproductions.com> Not that I condone the replacement of the original power supplies with PC supplies (I don't consider PC supplies any more reliable), but basically your wall outlet supplies 15A at 110v (in the US anyway) which is 1650 watts (P = VI). The power supply converts the 110v at 15A to 5v at 30A (don't know if they really have 30A PC supplies or not), which is only 150 watts. --tom At 12:32 PM 7/31/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:00:01PM +0000, wanderer wrote: >> Since the two bulk supplies are having 8 H744's (25A versions) I was >> just wondering about the feasebility of replacing them with standard >> PC XT power supplies (just for the 5V), as the usually deliver also >> between 25A and 30A, depending on the model. The large transformer in >> the bulk supply will then be replaced with a smaller transformer to >> deliver the LTC, DCLO, ACLO and +15V via the power monitor module >> which is still there. > >How can a normal PC XT power supply deliver 25-30A, when its plugged >into a normal 15A wall socket? Or is the amperage way different in >the UK? > >Bill > >-- >Bill Bradford >mrbill@mrbill.net >Austin, TX > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jul 31 13:33:31 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: Power Supply for DECserver 90M Message-ID: <20010731133331.A29356@mrbill.net> Just picked up a DECserver 90M; if anybody has the power supply for this beast (or the shelf-with-power-supply that it will fit into), please let me know. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 13:39:27 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010731183927.17298.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Brief article with a few pics: > > http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45699,00.html Nice pics. What's up with the RT-11 laptop? I've never even heard of the prototype. Any specs or info on it anywhere? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jul 31 12:45:53 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: OT: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: References: <3B65F6E4.E6B20D5C@eoni.com> Message-ID: >a 914-6 with a 2.7RS engine and a welded-in-place steel roof that corrected >the flexy-flyer characteristics of the 914. The 914, in turn, is much more >I'd love to say something nice about the 924, but I'm having some problems. >How about "The 924S goes faster than a 944?" ;-) The 924 in metallic copper is one of the prettiest cars ever. Way too tame and pesky in stock trim though. My 944T was one of the most fun cars I have ever driven (second place to my 63 Alfa Romeo, back when I fit in one). A dentist around the Orange county area has a 914/6 with a twin turbo chevy 350 V8 and a full race suspension. No license, but he takes it out on the freeway some nights and nothing has caught him yet. Better wear your rubber pants if you are riding shootgun when he takes a cloverleaf in a hurry. What I liked about our 74 914 2.0L was that it was a fun car, a convertible when you wanted it to be, and could go about 650 miles on a full tank of gas. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jul 31 13:46:25 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20010731120603.00a60080@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010731133816.02791ab0@pc> At 02:18 PM 7/31/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: >There was a time when frequent car maintenance was easier and more >convenient for Americans who aren't shade-tree mechanics. Out here, not only are there drop-off car fix-it places that really fix them, they do it at seemingly ridiculously low prices, and they ask you to leave your keys in the ignition or on the visor. We also have full-serve gas for the same price as self-serve. There's a real drive-in movie theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks or real boiled bagels, though. - John From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Jul 31 15:57:38 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3B671BC2.1995@xs4all.nl> Bill Bradford wrote: > How can a normal PC XT power supply deliver 25-30A, when its plugged > into a normal 15A wall socket? Or is the amperage way different in > the UK? Hmm, 1 XT power supply to replace 1 H744 should do, and I only need to find 6 of them in the local thrift shop. In Europe, the line voltage is 220V, and per subsections of the house power is fused with 16Amp fuses (that is, here in Holland, don't know about the UK. Tony, can you tell us?) The whole 11/70 consumes about 2 kilowatt of power, no problem for me. Edward -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 31 13:59:55 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <200107311859.UAA25431@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 31 Jul, Bill Bradford wrote: > How can a normal PC XT power supply deliver 25-30A, when its plugged > into a normal 15A wall socket? Or is the amperage way different in > the UK? Ahhhmmmm. Yes. ;-) The current by itself is not important, you have to see it in relation to the voltage. This means you can suck a given amount of _power_ out of a wall socket. Power = current * voltage. So you will get with 230V and 15A a power of 3450W out of the wall socket. A power supply is a device that transforms a (usual) higher (AC) voltage into a lower (DC) voltage, thus increasing the current, as the power is constant. So you will get 690A at 5V if you max out the _power_ capacity of a wall socket. But you have also to consider, that the internal components in a power supply will limit the amount of power that can be transported through the power supply. As the output voltage is fixed at 5V (or 12V or what ever) the limitation applies to the current. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Jul 31 14:16:06 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010731133816.02791ab0@pc> Message-ID: Where in the world is this at? Even though we're in a little Mayberry-style town where you can leave your door unlocked and things are clean and prices are reasonable, the mechanics here are still gerbil-brained. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust -> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:46 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) -> -> -> At 02:18 PM 7/31/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote: -> >There was a time when frequent car maintenance was easier and more -> >convenient for Americans who aren't shade-tree mechanics. -> -> Out here, not only are there drop-off car fix-it places -> that really fix them, they do it at seemingly ridiculously -> low prices, and they ask you to leave your keys in the -> ignition or on the visor. We also have full-serve gas for the -> same price as self-serve. There's a real drive-in movie -> theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks -> or real boiled bagels, though. -> -> - John -> -> From emu at ecubics.com Tue Jul 31 14:23:47 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east References: <20010731183927.17298.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B6705C3.B1620DBB@ecubics.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Nice pics. What's up with the RT-11 laptop? I've never even > heard of the prototype. Any specs or info on it anywhere? "The laptop runs RT11, an early Basic-like operating system" ;-) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 31 14:39:14 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:18 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> References: <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010731123601.030eac50@209.185.79.193> Hi Bill, Don't confuse WATTS with AMPS. You see, power is measured in watts and is the product of voltage * amps, so a 10 WATT supply can produce either 10volts at 1 AMP or 1 Volt at 10 AMPS and still be a 10 WATT supply. The PC supplies are typically 250 watts. When they supply 5V at 25AMPS that is using only 125 WATTS. Your wall plug can supply 110Volts at 15AMPs which is 1650 WATTS. (however running a house wall plug at 15Amps for any length of time will warm it up, and generally several wall plugs are on a single 20A circuit (2200 Watts max)) --Chuck At 12:32 PM 7/31/01 -0500, you wrote: >How can a normal PC XT power supply deliver 25-30A, when its plugged >into a normal 15A wall socket? Or is the amperage way different in >the UK? >Bill From menadeau at mediaone.net Tue Jul 31 14:37:52 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east References: <20010731183927.17298.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0b0e01c119f8$4db86b00$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> BTW, although I took the photos, I didn't write the caption stating that RT11 was a "BASIC-like" operating system. The editor apparently garbled my phone comments to him. Megan didn't have a lot of information about the laptop, but I'd love to know more, too. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Wired covers VCF east > > --- Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > Brief article with a few pics: > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45699,00.html > > Nice pics. What's up with the RT-11 laptop? I've never even > heard of the prototype. Any specs or info on it anywhere? > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 31 14:39:39 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> <3B671BC2.1995@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <000f01c119f8$8a99bec0$2819d7d1@DOMAIN> I don't normally endorse this rag in any way, but in Newsweek's Aug 6 issue pg 8 (Periscope dept.) "Trading Pickup Lines in COBOL" VCFs and Sellam get a nice little token mention and are charactertured to boot! Congrats Sellam! ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 31 14:54:23 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3B670CEF.243E68C@bellsouth.net> wanderer wrote: > > Well, > > It finally is there, my own PDP 11/70, in working condition and with > 1Mb in the memory box. The machine is placed in 1 H960 cabinet and > has the original 11/70 top faceplate. > > I picked it up last Friday in the UK near London, and the whole > trip did take 23 hours, including 2 two hour ferry trips. > With it I got the documentation, engineering diagrams and a complete > set of spare cpu boards. > > Although the machine is is working conditions, I will of course go > through the (unpublished) list of steps before I apply the power > to the backplane. > > Since the two bulk supplies are having 8 H744's (25A versions) I was > just wondering about the feasebility of replacing them with standard > PC XT power supplies (just for the 5V), as the usually deliver also > between 25A and 30A, depending on the model. The large transformer in > the bulk supply will then be replaced with a smaller transformer to > deliver the LTC, DCLO, ACLO and +15V via the power monitor module > which is still there. Actually, I find the 5V regulators easier to work on than the typical PC power supply, although not nearly as efficient. I am not sure that the timing of the ACLO and DCLO lines could be retained if you use alternate supplies. The current from the PC supplies may drop off much faster than the H7420's when AC fails. In practice, I have never had much trouble with the power supplies on my 11/70. Of course, I also have spares just in case I ever do. > > Since I'm not going to use MASSBUS devices, two modules could be > removed as they power a part of the MASSBUS backplane section. Yes, H744 K & L can be removed if there are no RH70's. > > Of course, all the pins of the backplane will be checked and > straightened if needed, and the card connectors will be vacumed before > replacing the cards. Good idea. Also check the output of the 5V regulators, they must be +/- .1V of 5.00V. The output is very dependent on the stability of the AC input voltage. The biggest thing that is likely to need replacement are the fans. Typically, the 4 in the bottom of the CPU burn up or seize up quicker than the rest. Since there are a total of 17 fans between the CPU and the power supplies, it is almost certain that you will be replacing some. Mine was well cared for before I got it, and I still replaced 6 of the fans. If any look at all questionable, replace them with the highest CFM fan that you can find. I use NMB 4715FS-12T-B50 110V fans as replacements in mine. > > Any other tips I may need? > Make sure you install bus grant cards where needed and check the NPR grant continuity on all the slots that may have had their NPG jumpers cut. Since you said it was all in one rack, I assume the UNIBUS is terminated in the CPU and does not extend to another shelf. Sounds like you have MK11 memory? Be careful about the cabling to the MK11 shelf. Several DEC documents have the connectors mis-labeled on the drawings for the MK11. If you disconnect them, make your own notes first about how they are connected. (I got burned once by following the diagram that was wrong.) Disconnect the battery backup units from the MK11 if the batteries are no longer any good. Also, since you said it is all in one rack, if there is anything mounted anywhere above the CPU in the H960 rack (MK11?), don't install the covers on the front of the rack or the back door. You will not get enough airflow to cool the CPU. DEC really didn't intend for anything to be mounted above the CPU (except for a few shallow components that don't restrict airflow). As far as I know, all later 11/70 configurations in H960 racks required a minimum of two racks, with the MK11 in the second rack. Airflow will be even more important if you don't have it in a controlled environment. Good luck to you. I am glad to see another 11/70 in the hands of someone who will care for it. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Jul 31 15:01:20 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT justice (flamebait) and cars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010731154941.00a60480@mail.wincom.net> At 02:33 PM 31/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Note: I've got a '67 VW Beetle, but at least it never pretended to be >anything that it wasn't, unlike those overpriced, pretentious, >European cars. I'll bet that some people hot-rodded VW beetles, and >tinkered with the handling, to outperform Porsches without spending >what it cost to buy a Porsche. It's funny that some people would pay >more for a little Mercedes than a big, comfortable, and solidly built, >Cadillac or Lincoln would cost. > Back in the 1950s I was a member of a local sports car club which also included a German fellow who was a very enthusiastic VW owner. At meetings we were used to hearing dialogue such as "I don't see why you have those draughty English cars, look at my beautiful VW, see how the doors fit, why it even floats! " Anyway, one Saturday two Morgans and the VW were proceeding South at somewhat less than Mach 1 on Walker Road in the county where there are a couple of sharp 90 degree turns... Morgan #1 went through the turns. Morgan #2 went through the turns. VW went into a cornfield! After that we didn't hear so much about the features of the VW. Cheers > Charlie Fox (MG TD Owner) Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 31 15:07:57 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> <3B671BC2.1995@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3B67101D.B20509@bellsouth.net> wanderer wrote: > The whole 11/70 consumes about 2 kilowatt of power, no problem for me. Here are the measurements from my own system I made a while back. Since I am in the U.S., this is a 110 volt configuration. System configuration: PDP-11/70 CPU KB11-C w/FP11-C, 0 RH70's, 1 DL11W, 1 RX211 MK11 1024KW BA11 w/1 DZ11, 1 RL11, 1 KLESI, 1 DELUA, 1 UDA50 RX02 SA72 w/4 RA72 RL02 TU81+ LA120 The entire system is fed with a single 220V 30A circuit which is split into two 110V 30A circuits through an 861-D power controller. Configuration Run current Peak Current L1 L2 L1 L2 CPU only 5.8A 5.2A 6.2A 5.7A CPU+MK11 5.8A 8.9A 6.2A 10.5A CPU+MK11+BA11 9.9A 8.9A 14.7A 10.5A Full load at idle 12.1A 14.1A 17.4A 17.5A Full load with all 12.2A 15.4A disks spun up, tape loading, CPU running EMKA diag. The total current draw would be the sum of the values from L1 and L2. These are observed values from my own system. Your system will never be exactly the same as mine. Don't under-estimate the AC circuits to the equipment. -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jul 31 15:15:15 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam Message-ID: <86.d52970e.28986bd3@aol.com> In a message dated 7/31/2001 2:53:01 PM Central Daylight Time, dogas@bellsouth.net writes: > I don't normally endorse this rag in any way, but in Newsweek's Aug 6 issue > pg 8 (Periscope dept.) "Trading Pickup Lines in COBOL" VCFs and Sellam get > a nice little token mention and are charactertured to boot! > > Congrats Sellam! > > ;) > cool! is there an online link? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010731/3472881f/attachment.html From mark_k at totalise.co.uk Tue Jul 31 15:55:19 2001 From: mark_k at totalise.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Kodak Gold CD-R's going bye-bye? Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 Jerome Fine wrote: > I have acquired a Sony SMO S501 and some cartridges. I understand > that the company I bought them from used them for backup for at least > 5 years. While each side of the cartridge holds only 300 MBytes, at least > the total capacity (both sides) is almost equal to a CD. And although > they are a bit slow on the WRITE operation, the READ operations are > almost as fast as a hard disk drive. If you get a chance, check out a later-generation MO drive. Seek times and transfer rates are much quicker. > I don't know about retention, but I expect I will be making a backup of the > long term files about every one or two years. Does anyone know how I > might test a magneto optical cartridge for long term degradation? I assume a similar accelerated-aging regime to testing CD-R discs would work; high temperature and humidity. What you can do (and this applies to CD-R discs as well) is check the block/bit error rate. After writing to a new disk, use the SCSI READ LONG command to read the raw data from each sector (this consists of the sector data and error correction info). For each sector, see whether there is a correctable error. End up with a figure for the percentage of sectors with correctable errors. Do the same thing in a few years time, and see whether there is any difference. A more accurate variation would be to record how many "bad" bits are in each correctable sector. Depending on the drive, you may be able to get it to automatically log the number of times it has to use error correction. You could establish a proportion of the maximum possible correctable bit errors, and reject a disk if its maximum goes over that. (E.g., if up to 80 bit errors in a sector are correctable, you might reject a disk which has a maximum of 50.) Before evaluating error rates, make sure the disk's surface is clean; if you have been using a particular disk heavily for years in a polluted/dusty environment, dirt on its surface will probably affect the error rate. You're interested in the "real" error rate, not errors which go away after cleaning. Also make sure your drive's lens is clean. > Also, if I can read the cartridge, does that indicate it is as good as when > it was written or should it always be written again after 5 years just to be > sure? You can probably leave data alone for much longer than 5 years. Various MO media manufacturers quote media lifetimes of 30, 50 or 100 years. Of course they probably all use different criteria to come up with a lifetime figure... > If anyone ever sees a Sony SMO S501 for $ US 20 or less, please send it > to me and I will always appreciate and accept it and pay you for the drive > and shipping in the US and Canada. Shipping from Europe is still too > expensive. Pretty much any ISO standard 5.25" MO drive will work with the 600/650MB disks that the SMO-S501 uses; you are not restricted to that particular drive. -- Mark From zaft at azstarnet.com Tue Jul 31 15:24:39 2001 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010731123601.030eac50@209.185.79.193> References: <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010731132404.00b46540@mail.azstarnet.com> To make things worse, most European power companies provide a wall voltage of 220V, not 110 as is common in the US. GZ At 12:39 PM 7/31/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Bill, > >Don't confuse WATTS with AMPS. You see, power is measured in watts and is >the product of voltage * amps, so a 10 WATT supply can produce either >10volts at 1 AMP or 1 Volt at 10 AMPS and still be a 10 WATT supply. The >PC supplies are typically 250 watts. When they supply 5V at 25AMPS that is >using only 125 WATTS. Your wall plug can supply 110Volts at 15AMPs which >is 1650 WATTS. (however running a house wall plug at 15Amps for any length >of time will warm it up, and generally several wall plugs are on a single >20A circuit (2200 Watts max)) > >--Chuck > >At 12:32 PM 7/31/01 -0500, you wrote: >>How can a normal PC XT power supply deliver 25-30A, when its plugged >>into a normal 15A wall socket? Or is the amperage way different in >>the UK? >>Bill > From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Jul 31 15:25:27 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: <0b0e01c119f8$4db86b00$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> References: <20010731183927.17298.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010731162119.00a5faa0@mail.wincom.net> At 03:37 PM 31/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: >BTW, although I took the photos, I didn't write the caption stating that >RT11 was a "BASIC-like" operating system. The editor apparently garbled my >phone comments to him. > >Megan didn't have a lot of information about the laptop, but I'd love to >know more, too. > >--Mike > >Michael Nadeau >Editorial Services >603-893-2379 Nice photos. Reading the captions on the thumbnails I thought we were going to get a look at Megan. Had to settle for Sellam! Rather disappointing. Cheers Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From quapla at xs4all.nl Tue Jul 31 17:33:38 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 References: <20010731182623.14673.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B673242.44D1@xs4all.nl> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Would it be worth protecting the PSUs from each other through a high-power > diode? The worry is that if one goes south, it'll take the rest (and > the machine) with it. > > -ethan Well, according to the schematics, each 5V power module supplies only a part of the backplane. So if one goes south, then that would mean that the machine would simply stop due to loss of (logic) signals. The power modules are not connected in parallel. If that would be the case, I guess that the modules would burn themselfs up due to minute voltage differences and exchange current between them. True, the modern PC PSU's are not up to the highest standards, but they deliver 5V@30A and are easy to get. If I would use PSU's from old, well known brand PC's then I'm not stuck with inferior stuff. It also allows me to switch them on one by one, so that the inrush current is not flipping the switch on my automatic fuse. Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 31 15:42:04 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest acquistions Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010731133453.02b4bb70@209.185.79.193> Ok so I just picked up two very cool things for the House of VAX. They are both DSSI to SCSI controllers. One was a rack mount box containing two CDI-4000 DSSI->SCSI controllers made by CMD with front panels. The panel looks a lot like the HSC-50 front panel. One was made by DEC and plugs into a Storage works storage shelf! That one is so cool. Turn a storage shelf into a DSSI shelf. Its very weird to see the RZ29's in the shelf with labels DIA240, DIA250, etc. I also picked up three storage works shelves, two with redundant supplies and one with only one supply. Generally they have 4, 5, and 3, RZ29's in them. The one with 4 has the DSSI converter in the other end. I've got to get pictures of these up on the web site soon, they are really neat. I also picked up a bag of third party MMJ to DB25 hoods, they appear to all be males (so not too useful for my DECServer or folks connecting to a PC without a null modem gender changer. --Chuck From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 31 15:38:37 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: <200107311706.f6VH6gq63277@bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com> Message-ID: How much do these usually run on the open market? Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > I've got a HVD to SE converter or two... > > Bill > > --- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 31 15:39:48 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20010731124002.G19710-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: My father has an 11/70 (he actually was an active user back in the day) that has all original parts, even fuses. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > My own personal 11/70 is still being elusive, but it's out there > somewhere. I'll find it someday! > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 31 15:40:44 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: <003a01c119e8$fe87bc20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Was there a narrow differential standard for SCSI? I've never seen narrow differential. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Really!?? > > Which type (i.e. which termination arrangement) are these? Do they go on the > target device or on the controller? Are they wide or narrow? > > Dick > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 31 15:43:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You do have an option today. Buy a nice looking car and put an Edelbrock engine, four-barrel, intakes, etc. in it. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, joe wrote: > > and Americans aren't known for frequent car maintainance. > > There was a time when frequent car maintenance was easier and more > convenient for Americans who aren't shade-tree mechanics. What I'm > referring to is the scarcity these days of convenient places to get a > tune-up, grease job and oil change. Places like Jiffy Lube don't > count, as they're as likely to damage a car as they are to change the > oil, etc. properly. Not so long ago, there was a higher percentage of > corner gas stations, with more than one mechanic working in them, to > cars. One could often just drive up to a service station, pull into a > bay, and get a car repaired without having to drop it off or make an > appointment. > > Even finding a mechanic who can perform a tune up is becoming > difficult; many don't know how to adjust points or carburators, and > one can forget about having the dwell adjusted or getting a > distributor curved; one shop that I called about the later had no idea > as to what I was talking about. If they'd get all these new cars with > ridiculously overly complex engines off the road and put carburators > and distributors with points back in cars, people would have fewer > problems with maintenance and finding parts 20 years later. Of > course, Big Brother wouldn't like that, as the old cars can't be > stopped by a high-energy blast that makes electronic components in the > new engines break down. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Jul 31 15:48:59 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Master of all that Sucks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010731133816.02791ab0@pc> Message-ID: In New Jersey, gas is cheaper than most places, and it's ALL full-serve. Self-serve is illegal. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > Out here, not only are there drop-off car fix-it places > that really fix them, they do it at seemingly ridiculously > low prices, and they ask you to leave your keys in the > ignition or on the visor. We also have full-serve gas for the > same price as self-serve. There's a real drive-in movie > theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks > or real boiled bagels, though. > > - John > From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 31 15:57:09 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east References: Message-ID: <200107312057.QAA15371@world.std.com> >Wow - Megan, got any more details on that "laptop" ? I dont >see it listed on your web page.. I haven't taken pictures of it yet... I'd like to try to get RT on it. The caption with the picture is a little incorrect... RT-11 is not a BASIC-like program... and I suspect it didn't make it as a product because of a couple of things... need for AC power, limited display (4 lines x 40 chars), a single diskette... As for the diskette being proprietary, I talked with someone at VCF-east and they said that they though that *really* early 3.5" diskettes were different from what we are used to now... he thought he might have a drive and some media... (if you are reading this, whoever, please contact me). If I can get an old drive to attach to a regular -11, I could try to load up RT on it and then try to boot the machine. As for the machine, it has a 4x40 LCD display, 3.5" diskette, 2 serial lines, some sort of port on the back for something (maybe another diskette?) and has a T-11 chip. The 'terminal' part of it looks sorta like a VT100 (with a SETUP A like screen) and it has rom code at 173000... uODT recognizes the B command as boot from the floppy. The machine is proto #6... I've not seen any others in all the years since... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From menadeau at mediaone.net Tue Jul 31 16:05:51 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east References: <20010731183927.17298.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010731162119.00a5faa0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <0b3201c11a04$97ca6660$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Thanks. I didn't get Megan in the photo because I wanted a close-up of the portable. That laptop proto is a heavy sucker--thick metal case. A paper label on the bottom of it says "Digital Prototype #6". I thought that it might have been a prototype for the GiGi VK-100, but having since compared photos, I'm not so sure. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles E. Fox" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Wired covers VCF east > At 03:37 PM 31/07/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >BTW, although I took the photos, I didn't write the caption stating that > >RT11 was a "BASIC-like" operating system. The editor apparently garbled my > >phone comments to him. > > > >Megan didn't have a lot of information about the laptop, but I'd love to > >know more, too. > > > >--Mike > > > >Michael Nadeau > >Editorial Services > >603-893-2379 > > Nice photos. Reading the captions on the thumbnails I thought we > were going to get a look at Megan. Had to settle for Sellam! Rather > disappointing. > > Cheers > Charlie Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 > foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out: > Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 31 16:10:40 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: References: <200107311706.f6VH6gq63277@bg-tc-ppp1442.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010731140833.03060140@209.185.79.193> At 04:38 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Sridhar wrote: >How much do these [HVD to SE converter] usually run on the open market? If someone gets one and would like a couple of full height 2.1GB SCSI drives to go with it let me know. I've got a pair I rescued from the drive sled of a decommissioned Sun 4/390 and have no use for them. --Chuck From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Jul 31 16:12:30 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > I've got a HVD to SE converter or two... > > > Sridhar wrote: > How much do these usually run on the open market? WAY TOO MUCH! >$500 US That was the first option I investigated. From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 31 16:10:40 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east References: <20010731183927.17298.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107312110.RAA05952@world.std.com> >"The laptop runs RT11, an early Basic-like operating system" Yeah... I saw that... and wrote to them to correct the info... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Jul 31 16:14:09 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Was there a narrow differential standard for SCSI? I've never seen narrow > differential. High Voltage Differential HVD is just a spec for the cables, terminator and signal levels. The wide/narrow conventions and the rest of SCSI-2 and SCSI-3 are supported. From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 31 16:14:49 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east References: <20010731183927.17298.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200107312114.RAA11635@world.std.com> > Nice photos. Reading the captions on the thumbnails I thought >we were going to get a look at Megan. Had to settle for Sellam! Rather >disappointing. Just as well... being a 'plus'-sized woman, I don't really like being in pictures... I'm a behind-the-camera type of person anyway... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 31 16:13:46 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam References: <86.d52970e.28986bd3@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001c11a05$b0163a90$87db3fd0@DOMAIN> From: > > a nice little token mention and are charactertured to boot! > > > > cool! is there an online link? > I dunno... It's a small enough to keyin, so here it is:
Sellam Ismail owns about 1,500 antiquated computers, wears a GEEK T-shirt and ran the first-ever East Coast Vintage Computer Festival in Massachusetts last weekend. Even though he's "not a guy with bad hair who wears glasses taped in the middle," Ismail insists he's a nerd. Are you? Head to the fifth annual West Coast VCF this September, swap stories and curcut boards and take a Nerd Trivia Challenge... (few trivia questions and cartoony depiction of Sellam enraptured by computer pile follow...)
- Mike From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 31 13:22:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: California Computer Systems (S-100) In-Reply-To: from "Scott Glassburn" at Jul 30, 1 10:14:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2645 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010731/45072691/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 31 13:26:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Inexpensive lights & switches computers (was: Whats you..) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jul 31, 1 00:19:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 530 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010731/ef1a6f7e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 31 16:02:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <001701c119e2$ae043860$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jul 31, 1 11:03:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2553 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010731/bb2ce50b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 31 16:08:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3B670031.4E56@xs4all.nl> from "wanderer" at Jul 31, 1 07:00:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1147 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010731/a8a7d215/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Jul 31 16:42:40 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: MO drives... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010731174240.0180fba0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Mark may have mentioned these words: >On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 Jerome Fine wrote: >You can probably leave data alone for much longer than 5 years. Various MO >media manufacturers quote media lifetimes of 30, 50 or 100 years. Of course >they probably all use different criteria to come up with a lifetime figure... The disks with my MaxOptix Tahiti 1 drive (500M/side) were listed with a 30-year lifetime... if that helps... >> If anyone ever sees a Sony SMO S501 for $ US 20 or less, please send it >> to me and I will always appreciate and accept it and pay you for the drive >> and shipping in the US and Canada. Shipping from Europe is still too >> expensive. > >Pretty much any ISO standard 5.25" MO drive will work with the 600/650MB disks >that the SMO-S501 uses; you are not restricted to that particular drive. I'd love to find one (or a few) of the 3.5" 128Meg (or 256Meg) drives for my classic computing needs - great archival capabilities, and with 8-bitters, you don't really worry much about the speed... The only thing you have to watch for with the 5.25" drives is sector size. The 600Meg platters are 512-byte sectors, IIRC the 650Meg platters are 2048-byte sectors [[but don't quote me]]... 650Meg disks will *not* work in a 600Meg drive, but thankfully my MaxOptics takes it's "special" 1G disks, but also reads/writes to the 600Meg disks. (which is good, because the 1G disk seemed to be bad. It wouldn't format without a *lot* of bad sectors.) HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 31 16:40:47 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT justice (flamebait) and cars In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010731123518.0268b220@pc> Message-ID: > At 10:28 AM 7/31/01 -0500, Mark Tapley wrote: > >OOooopsie. Guess we would have had to issue a formal posthumous apology. > >But it was an honest mistake, Dick, it sure *sounded* like an unprompted > >admission of guilt. The important thing, though, is it would serve as a > >strong disincentive to future illegal dumpster-divers. On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote: > For violators where we're pretty sure but not quite sure of guilt, > perhaps a vat of molten recycled steel would be fair. Waitaminit! Is there some question of whether Dick is guilty? Sure, he might not have done THAT, but he must hav done SOMETHING. Anyone who questions the verdict gets the next vat. From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Jul 31 16:43:38 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam Message-ID: SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > cool! is there an online link? I just found it: http://www.msnbc.com/news/606595.asp?0nw=n18#hobby From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Jul 31 16:47:45 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: <200107312057.QAA15371@world.std.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010731174239.034127e0@mail.njd.concentric.com> This is one way cool looking box -- how hard would it be to build one from "scratch"? It would be neat to have a PDP-11 laptop (apart from running simh, of course)! -- Tony At 04:57 PM 7/31/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >Wow - Megan, got any more details on that "laptop" ? I dont > >see it listed on your web page.. > >I haven't taken pictures of it yet... > >I'd like to try to get RT on it. The caption with the picture >is a little incorrect... RT-11 is not a BASIC-like program... >and I suspect it didn't make it as a product because of a couple >of things... need for AC power, limited display (4 lines x 40 chars), >a single diskette... > >As for the diskette being proprietary, I talked with someone at >VCF-east and they said that they though that *really* early >3.5" diskettes were different from what we are used to now... >he thought he might have a drive and some media... (if you >are reading this, whoever, please contact me). > >If I can get an old drive to attach to a regular -11, I could >try to load up RT on it and then try to boot the machine. > >As for the machine, it has a 4x40 LCD display, 3.5" diskette, >2 serial lines, some sort of port on the back for something >(maybe another diskette?) and has a T-11 chip. The 'terminal' >part of it looks sorta like a VT100 (with a SETUP A like screen) >and it has rom code at 173000... uODT recognizes the B command >as boot from the floppy. > >The machine is proto #6... I've not seen any others in all the >years since... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 31 16:33:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20010731123258.T29356@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Jul 31, 1 12:32:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010731/b13c6179/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 31 15:54:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: I am in the big newpaper today about my vintage computer collecting hobby...no link to me or my site but one to VCF... In-Reply-To: <00d101c11935$ce46ebc0$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Claude.W wrote: > Well I am in the big Montreal newspaper today but no link to me (email) or > to my site... Bogus. > They post a link to www.vintage.org (and others) but not to me (email > or my site) ! What did I do? You fell victim to poor journalism. While I'm happy to have the link to vintage.org, I think you got a raw deal, since you lent the reporter your personal time and are not getting back in return what you expected. Did you ask for a link to your website or e-mail address be included in the article? > once a week?) on selling carts and consoles on ebay...now everyone > will think their 286 is worth $100 and an Atari 2600 is worth $120... I always make it a point when I am interviewed to DE-emphasize eBay and the monetary value of old computers and take extra care to emphasize the historical value (mainly by talking mostly about historical value and resisting their questions regarding value). This seems to work well. Consider this a learning experience. It took me a while to understand the ways of the reporter and only feed them the information they need to write a good article ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 31 17:03:07 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east References: <20010731183927.17298.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010731162119.00a5faa0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <200107312203.SAA17807@world.std.com> >Thanks. I didn't get Megan in the photo because I wanted a close-up of >the portable. As I said, I'm just as happy not to be in the photo... I wish I'd been able to bring the other 'never'-11, the techmate. It unfortunately appears to not power-up correctly, so I need to do some work on it and try to figure out what is wrong. I think it may be as simple as needing a replacement VT100 basic video board... >That laptop proto is a heavy sucker--thick metal case. A paper label on >the bottom of it says "Digital Prototype #6". I thought that it might >have been a prototype for the GiGi VK-100, but having since compared >photos, I'm not so sure. I have some VK100s, they are most definitely different... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jul 31 17:02:02 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: ; from bills@adrenaline.com on Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:12:30PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010731170202.N11794@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 05:12:30PM -0400, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > WAY TOO MUCH! >$500 US > That was the first option I investigated. Really? I've got one of these in a desk drawer somewhere... If anybody's interested, email me. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 31 16:49:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3B670CEF.243E68C@bellsouth.net> from "Doug Carman" at Jul 31, 1 03:54:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010731/b02f76dd/attachment.ksh From curt at atari-history.com Tue Jul 31 17:11:07 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> Message-ID: <004701c11a0d$b272ce90$c2609040@syzygy2> David, I received a Robin at the VCFE show from a great guy who used to work for DEC. Unfortunately my engine in my car suffered some severe damage and is still up in the Honda dealer in Massachusettes so I had no way of bringing the unit home and not wanting to leave it in the car, I gave it to Megan who is the resident RT-11 expert as I thought it would be the best home for the unit. She has a huge assortment of software specifically for the Robin VT180. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Betz" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:33 PM Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) > I just picked up a DEC VT180 that seems to work except that it came with no > software. Does anyone know where I can get a CP/M boot disk for it and/or > the diagnostic disk? > > Thanks, > David Betz > dbetz@xlisper.mv.com > From rachael_ at gmx.net Tue Jul 31 18:21:20 2001 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Whats you oldest computer Message-ID: <533.613T1016T212348rachael_@gmx.net> I think the oldest I have is a Philips odyssey 2001 build in 1977, not a quiet a computer. I`m not sure about the age of my Regnecentralen RC702 piccolo, sadly its not working, I have checked the PSU, and on a reset the 360kb 5 1/4" starts spining. Does anyone have some infomation about those machines from Regnecentralen. Here in Denmark people seems to have forgotten all about the machines. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: Rachael_@gmx.net url: http://rachael.dyndns.org From pechter at bg-tc-ppp23.monmouth.com Tue Jul 31 17:23:15 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp23.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: from Bill Sudbrink at "Jul 31, 2001 05:12:30 pm" Message-ID: <200107312223.f6VMNFb64440@bg-tc-ppp23.monmouth.com> > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > > I've got a HVD to SE converter or two... > > > > > Sridhar wrote: > > How much do these usually run on the open market? > > WAY TOO MUCH! >$500 US > > That was the first option I investigated. More like $20-30. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 31 17:06:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3B671BC2.1995@xs4all.nl> from "wanderer" at Jul 31, 1 08:57:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1315 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010731/1c717a6d/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Jul 31 17:11:58 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: Megan's message of "Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:57:09 -0400 (EDT)" References: <200107312057.QAA15371@world.std.com> Message-ID: <200107312211.f6VMBwD56266@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Megan wrote: > As for the diskette being proprietary, I talked with someone at > VCF-east and they said that they though that *really* early > 3.5" diskettes were different from what we are used to now... > he thought he might have a drive and some media... (if you > are reading this, whoever, please contact me). What little I could see in the picture looked sort of like a Sony drive mechanism with the square eject button. True? Early Sony 3.5" diskettes and drives had a manual diskette shutter. You had to slide the shutter to the open position, and it would lock open. Then you could insert the diskette. When you ejected the diskette, you were expected to pinch it (that little arrow in the upper left corner used to point to the word "PINCH") to release the shutter; a spring would pull it closed. Fred Cisin probably knows more about this than I do, I just remember seeing some of the early HP stiffies that were usable this way so that they would work in older stiffy drives. They weren't hard to find in 1984 or so, though then-current drives were "automatic". -Frank McConnell From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 31 17:25:49 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: "Early" 3.5" diskettes (was: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: <200107312057.QAA15371@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Megan wrote: > As for the diskette being proprietary, I talked with someone at > VCF-east and they said that they though that *really* early > 3.5" diskettes were different from what we are used to now... > he thought he might have a drive and some media... (if you > are reading this, whoever, please contact me). I assume that you were NOT talking with somebody who thinks 720K was *really* early! The early Sony drives ran at 600RPM, with a correspondingly faster data transfer rate, and can sorta use more modern media. The first 3.5" diskettes did not have a shutter. (I have some from Shugart) The next had a manual shutter. YOU slide it open before putting it in the drive, and YOU close it when done. The next had a semi-automatic shutter. They are labelled "Auto Shutter". SOME drives can open the shutter, or YOU open it, and when you are done, "pinch"ing the corner of the disk releases a latch that closes the shutter. There is a little arrow showing where to pinch. Those are not very rare. I suppose that I could trade away some of them. Then they came out with the fully automatic shutter. Those are the common 720K diskettes. The little arrow that used to show where to pinch is still there on many diskettes! People now think that it is for telling them which end to shove in. Modern drives don't seem to mind missing shutters, and all of the early drives that I've tried are happy with modern diskettes with the shutter removed. So try taking the shutter off of a diskette and see whether that makes the drive happy. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From pechter at bg-tc-ppp23.monmouth.com Tue Jul 31 17:29:41 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp23.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: from Master of all that Sucks at "Jul 31, 2001 04:40:44 pm" Message-ID: <200107312229.f6VMTfL64505@bg-tc-ppp23.monmouth.com> > > Was there a narrow differential standard for SCSI? I've never seen narrow > differential. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Really!?? > > > > Which type (i.e. which termination arrangement) are these? Do they go on the > > target device or on the controller? Are they wide or narrow? > > > > Dick The one's I have plug to the 50 connector narrow bus ribbon cable and output a HVD 50 connector bus ribbon... It takes a standard hard disk power cable for the voltage for the driver chips. Price was about $20/30 from a surplus house. I've seen them anywhere from $20 or so up over $500 for the fancy external one. Bill Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 31 17:32:25 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: I am in the big newpaper today about my vintage computer collecting hobby...no link to me or my site but one to VCF... In-Reply-To: <002101c11996$99a68360$0200a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Claude.W wrote: > > Well, Claude, you'll get it right when you get on the Globe and Mail, > > or the National Post. Then you'll get offers from all across Canada! > > Well, lady reporter told me the pagesetting ("pupitre") got screwed up, says > under photo of me I am in front of a SuperPET but never says what I am > holding in my hands...and she had to cut some web addresses because of space > limitations... Why not write a nice 'letter to the editor' thanking them for publishing such an article and noting that if anyone wants to make contact your email address is *****. - don > I can only hope Ill get asked for interviews by other papers or mags and > they will get it right...or maybe this is hopeless...Ill go back to my > hermit anti-social life....(just kidding...) > > Claude > > > > > Edwin > > > > At 04:25 PM 7/30/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi > > > > > >Well I am in the big Montreal newspaper today but no link to me (email) > or > > >to my site... > > > > > >I was counting on this to get me offers for new machines - dont think its > > >gonna happen... > > > > > >They post a link to www.vintage.org (and others) but not to me (email or > my > > >site) ! What did I do? > > > > > >Claude > > >http://www.members.tripod.com/computer_collector > > > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Jul 31 17:32:42 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200107312232.AAA26498@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 31 Jul, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > > Was there a narrow differential standard for SCSI? I've never seen narrow > differential. I have a narrow HVD Micropolis disk in my repository. It is a 5,25" FH critter with 600..700MB. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From TheDataMaestro at aol.com Tue Jul 31 17:34:26 2001 From: TheDataMaestro at aol.com (TheDataMaestro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:19 2005 Subject: MicorVAX II Message-ID: <42.18540beb.28988c72@aol.com> Hi, I need 1 or more MicroVAX II's. I have 2 that are in various states of disrepair and I need to fix them. Please let me know of their availability. Thanks. George From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jul 31 17:34:00 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) In-Reply-To: Re: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...) (Master of all that Sucks) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010731133816.02791ab0@pc> Message-ID: <15207.12888.325179.696209@phaduka.neurotica.com> On July 31, Master of all that Sucks wrote: > In New Jersey, gas is cheaper than most places, and it's ALL full-serve. > Self-serve is illegal. I grew up in NJ. This is going to sound ridiculous, but since I grew up with full-serve gas stations, when moving out of NJ the notion of self-serve took some getting used to. Weird. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 31 17:37:19 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> Message-ID: <200107312237.SAA03221@world.std.com> It will probably be some time before I can get a chance to go through the boxes of VT180 stuff I got from Curt the other day at the VCFE. When I do, I'll try to get an image of a bootable disk and put it somewhere... Or I can try to make a copy of the disk... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 31 17:56:31 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam In-Reply-To: <000f01c119f8$8a99bec0$2819d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Mike wrote: > I don't normally endorse this rag in any way, but in Newsweek's Aug 6 issue > pg 8 (Periscope dept.) "Trading Pickup Lines in COBOL" VCFs and Sellam get > a nice little token mention and are charactertured to boot! All of this publicity is a bad thing for computer collecting; too many biz 'droids and other idiots with lots of cash and warehouse space will start collecting older computers as an investment, not to use and trade. Finding parts that we need, and systems that we want to play with, will become more difficult. :-( -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jul 31 08:31:00 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. In-Reply-To: <3B66DC63.551AE188@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010731172554.CLAS18779.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:27:15 -0400 > From: Chad Fernandez > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM MCA card to ID. > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Wizard, > > Will you be keeping the custom black box? :-) I'd like to see pictures > of it, if you can do that easily. As I said, it is just simple black large box made for IBM, no provisions for mounting HDs, requires 220V power ONLY, front is HEX keypad w/ 4 digit LED (small!) Basically, oversized box to shuttle data between two different connections, basically to hold PSU, motherboard and all 8 cards, there's no openings for the I/O ports like vga, etc. To mount a little hd 30MB (!!) IBM used a MCA pass through card w/ MCA HD mounted on it, then it's plugged into topmost slot and kept in place from wobbling via a simple bent piece of sheetmetal and three screws. Two on card, one to chassis. It's made of heavy gauge steel so it is HEAVY and large. appox 9U rack but it doesn't have holes for rack ears so I left it behind. Top 4 screws uncrews 1/4 turn, take off top plate for card access. Loosen but not remove 8 screws (4 per side, slide them off by pulling upwards if needed for better access to other parts. Later 3172's (002 and 003) is based on 85 or 95 motherboard using dx2 50 complex card and at minimum 8MB installed. Newer boxens are now much efficient and vastly compact than this early days types. Cheers, Wizard > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 31 17:41:28 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east References: <200107312057.QAA15371@world.std.com> Message-ID: <200107312241.SAA08838@world.std.com> >What little I could see in the picture looked sort of like a >Sony drive mechanism with the square eject button. True? I would have to open the device up to check on that... and they packed stuff in there pretty tightly. The last time I tried to open it up, I had to stop as I hadn't located all the release points for the boards. I'll have to try again... >Early Sony 3.5" diskettes and drives had a manual diskette shutter. >You had to slide the shutter to the open position, and it would lock >open. Then you could insert the diskette. When you ejected the >diskette, you were expected to pinch it (that little arrow in the >upper left corner used to point to the word "PINCH") to release the >shutter; a spring would pull it closed. Interesting... I know that I was entirely unable to insert a standard 3.5" floppy... I had to remove the sliding window, adn even then it didn't feel like it was inserting correctly... >Fred Cisin probably knows more about this than I do, I just remember >seeing some of the early HP stiffies that were usable this way so that >they would work in older stiffy drives. They weren't hard to find in >1984 or so, though then-current drives were "automatic". If I can take it apart and get a picture, maybe you or he could truly identify it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 31 17:43:34 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: "Early" 3.5" diskettes (was: Wired covers VCF east Message-ID: <200107312243.SAA11608@world.std.com> >Modern drives don't seem to mind missing shutters, and all of the early >drives that I've tried are happy with modern diskettes with the shutter >removed. So try taking the shutter off of a diskette and see whether >that makes the drive happy. Thanks, Fred... I'll have to try it again... The next part of the problem is trying to find such a drive to put on an -11, interfaced in such a way so that I can read/write the diskette. Then I could try loading up an RT-11 monitor and see if we can get the thing to boot. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 31 18:03:07 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: Inexpensive lights & switches computers (was: Whats you..) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Tony Duell wrote: [SF-5000] > My guess (probably wildly off) is that it's one of those multi-pole slide > switches + torch (flashlight) bulbs educational 'computers'. You program > it by patching wires between the switch contacts, and to the bulbs. Good guess! :-) > 'SF' = 'Science Fair'??? Which IIRC was a name used by Radio Shack for > educational kits, etc at one time. Yes, that's it! Has anyone written a program to simulate one of these simple computers? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 31 17:48:55 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: Latest addition : PDP 11/70 References: Message-ID: <3B6735D7.2D31BD57@bellsouth.net> Tony Duell wrote: > In my experience the voltage is _very_ dependant on the load. If you > check all the regulators with no load or a small dummy load (as you > should do) you'll find they're all too high. So you tweak them down, put > the boards in and have a machine that malfunctions in strange ways. After > a lot of thought you check the 5V lines and find them sitting at +4.2V or > so (this happened on my 11/45 for just this reason). > > I would recomemnd testing the supplies on dummy load and setting them > just on the high side of 5V (say 5.2V or so). Put the boards in, then > check the voltages again and adjust them properly. > Good point, I have also experienced this and have gone back to find they need adjustment. . > > DEC used very good quality fans in these machines, probably better than > you're likely to get easily these days. If they're not actually burnt out > (check the resistance between the 2 terminal tags), then often they can > be taken apart (circlip in the centre of the blades, take off the cap, > the washers, the second circlip and the blade/rotor assembly) and the > bearings cleaned out and relubricated. My 11/45 is still on _all_ the > original fans... While I admit that I still have some of the original fans in my 11/70, most that I replaced were beyond any repair. I have a local electronics surplus store that sells the cooling trays that US Robotics used to sell with their access servers. These cooling trays had never been used and were made up of nine of the very high quality ball bearing NMB fans that I mentioned. These fans are used by many electronics manufacturers today and are a direct replacement for the original fans in the KB11 CPU. I found that if you have gone to the trouble of taking the system apart to the point where you can get the fans out, you realize that you don't want to do it often :) -- Doug Carman pdp11@bellsouth.net From allain at panix.com Tue Jul 31 17:57:22 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam References: Message-ID: <005501c11a14$28dfaca0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >: Re: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam > http://www.msnbc.com/news/606595.asp?0nw=n18#hobby Hey. Very Nice, and well deserved I should add. The quiz asks "When was Windows first announced" the missing punch-line is When was it delivered? Wasn't this one of the most aggregious examples of vaporware, where the product didn't ship for -Years-? John A. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jul 31 18:16:50 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:20 2005 Subject: MicorVAX II In-Reply-To: <42.18540beb.28988c72@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010731161328.02b7fb20@209.185.79.193> At 06:34 PM 7/31/01 -0400, TheDataMaestro@aol.com wrote: >I need 1 or more MicroVAX II's. I have 2 that are in various states of >disrepair and I need to fix them. >Please let me know of their availability. Hi George, welcome to the list. You have to be more specific than that but I'm sure lots of folks can help you get them running. The major subsystems are: Chassis/PSU - Box for powering them Disk/Tape - The peripherals that run them Boards - The brains of the machine Cables etc. - Things that connect them together. I keep trying to "sort" my "WOS" (Wad-O-Stuff) and have classified most things into these four groups. --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jul 31 18:34:54 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: OT justice (flamebait) and cars In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010731154941.00a60480@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: > meetings we were used to hearing dialogue such as "I don't see why you have > those draughty English cars, look at my beautiful VW, see how the doors > fit, why it even floats! " "If Ted Kennedy had driven a VW, he would be president now." From menadeau at mediaone.net Tue Jul 31 18:41:29 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam References: Message-ID: <0ba301c11a1a$55dcf360$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I disagree for a few simple reasons: First, there aren't enough systems worth the kind of money that would interest an investor/speculator. You need to get into a five-figure value range and then have a history of value growth over years. The only computer I can think of in that class is the Apple I. Investors want to buy a few things for a lot of money that will appreciate over time. Otherwise, it's too much work and overhead. Second, buying computers as an investment is not like collecting, say, art. If not cared for, many of the most valuable systems deteriorate over time, and with them their value. A speculator would have to invest in maintenance. And then there are the storage and transportation issues involved with larger systems. Finally, no infrastructure exists to broker the buying and selling of investor-level systems (even if they did exist in number). eBay is really just a big yard sale. You don't have the equivalent of a Sotheby's auction house or even of a high-end antique dealer. It took decades for this type of infrastructure to develop for the antique auto hobby. As the hobby grows (and it will whether we like it or not), it will attract attention from mainstream media and people who think they can make a quick buck. (and a buck is about all they will make). The bozos among them will be a nuisance, but in the long run greater awareness of the hobby will result in more systems being saved. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: Re: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Mike wrote: > > I don't normally endorse this rag in any way, but in Newsweek's Aug 6 issue > > pg 8 (Periscope dept.) "Trading Pickup Lines in COBOL" VCFs and Sellam get > > a nice little token mention and are charactertured to boot! > > All of this publicity is a bad thing for computer collecting; too many > biz 'droids and other idiots with lots of cash and warehouse space > will start collecting older computers as an investment, not to use and > trade. Finding parts that we need, and systems that we want to play > with, will become more difficult. :-( > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 31 18:01:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) In-Reply-To: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, David Betz wrote: > I just picked up a DEC VT180 that seems to work except that it came > with no software. Does anyone know where I can get a CP/M boot disk > for it and/or the diagnostic disk? Megan Gentry took home a very clean and very complete one from VCF East. I remember there were tons of disks with it as well. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jul 31 19:11:53 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) Message-ID: <007e01c11a1e$b5c6f2e0$a8779a8d@ajp166> And if megan doesnt have it I do... in a box somewhere. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Curt Vendel To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 6:46 PM Subject: Re: DEC VT180 (Robin) >David, > > I received a Robin at the VCFE show from a great guy who used to work for >DEC. Unfortunately my engine in my car suffered some severe damage and is >still up in the Honda dealer in Massachusettes so I had no way of bringing >the unit home and not wanting to leave it in the car, I gave it to Megan who >is the resident RT-11 expert as I thought it would be the best home for the >unit. She has a huge assortment of software specifically for the Robin >VT180. > > >Curt > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Betz" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:33 PM >Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) > > >> I just picked up a DEC VT180 that seems to work except that it came with >no >> software. Does anyone know where I can get a CP/M boot disk for it and/or >> the diagnostic disk? >> >> Thanks, >> David Betz >> dbetz@xlisper.mv.com >> > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jul 31 19:12:45 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: "Early" 3.5" diskettes (was: Wired covers VCF east Message-ID: <007f01c11a1e$b642b290$a8779a8d@ajp166> What kind of drive??? I have a few older 3.5" drives about. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Megan To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: Re: "Early" 3.5" diskettes (was: Wired covers VCF east > >>Modern drives don't seem to mind missing shutters, and all of the early >>drives that I've tried are happy with modern diskettes with the shutter >>removed. So try taking the shutter off of a diskette and see whether >>that makes the drive happy. > >Thanks, Fred... > >I'll have to try it again... > >The next part of the problem is trying to find such a drive to >put on an -11, interfaced in such a way so that I can read/write >the diskette. Then I could try loading up an RT-11 monitor and >see if we can get the thing to boot. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 31 18:04:18 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam In-Reply-To: <000f01c119f8$8a99bec0$2819d7d1@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Mike wrote: > I don't normally endorse this rag in any way, but in Newsweek's Aug 6 > issue pg 8 (Periscope dept.) "Trading Pickup Lines in COBOL" VCFs > and Sellam get a nice little token mention and are charactertured to > boot! > > Congrats Sellam! Cool! I didn't realize the new issue was out. I'll have to go grab a few copies :) I don't think the bit turned out the way I had hoped, nor how the reporter had envisioned. He was aiming to make it a larger piece but he told me his editors stymied his ambitions and had him reduce it's scale. Oh well ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 31 18:08:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010731162119.00a5faa0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > Nice photos. Reading the captions on the thumbnails I > thought we were going to get a look at Megan. Had to settle for > Sellam! Rather disappointing. Gee, thanks! ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 31 19:11:53 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: OT justice (flamebait) and cars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > meetings we were used to hearing dialogue such as "I don't see why you have > > those draughty English cars, look at my beautiful VW, see how the doors > > fit, why it even floats! " > > "If Ted Kennedy had driven a VW, he would be president now." > Thank god for leaky cars! - don From optimus at canit.se Tue Jul 31 08:55:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Universal filename translation system In-Reply-To: <3B66826D.24561.14AC7F45@localhost> Message-ID: <434.612T350T8954191optimus@canit.se> Hans Franke skrev: >> >BTW: the 9900 looks like a great Unicode machine - eventualy >> >one should drop all this unnecersary byte operation :) >> 9900 what? >Texas Instruments TMS 9900 and it's brothers ans sisters. >AK TI 990/xx >The CPU used for example in the TI 99/4, or the Tomy Tutor. >A nice clean 16 Bit design. Ah, you're right about that. Shame that I've never seen it in a decent system. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From rcini at optonline.net Tue Jul 31 19:45:08 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Digital font Message-ID: Hello, all: I found the font that I used on my Web site for the "pdp11" logo. It's "Century Gothic". Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Jul 31 20:39:53 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: "Early" 3.5" diskettes (was: Wired covers VCF east Message-ID: <200108010139.VAA20855@world.std.com> Allison, I'll have to show you the machine... maybe you could identify the drive right off without having to open the case. For a preview, check out the wired.com article pictures... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Jul 31 20:58:02 2001 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) References: <092401c119de$79f136d0$6401a8c0@dbnh> <200107312237.SAA03221@world.std.com> Message-ID: <0a8101c11a2d$7a497710$6401a8c0@dbnh> If you do get a chance to look through the VT180 stuff, I could easily drive down to Nashua to pick up a copy of the disks. I'm just in Bedford. Thanks, David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 6:37 PM Subject: Re: DEC VT180 (Robin) > It will probably be some time before I can get a chance to go through > the boxes of VT180 stuff I got from Curt the other day at the VCFE. > When I do, I'll try to get an image of a bootable disk and put it > somewhere... Or I can try to make a copy of the disk... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > From pechter at bg-tc-ppp1340.monmouth.com Tue Jul 31 21:08:03 2001 From: pechter at bg-tc-ppp1340.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: OT justice (flamebait) and cars In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at "Jul 31, 2001 04:34:54 pm" Message-ID: <200108010208.f71283I65235@bg-tc-ppp1340.monmouth.com> > > meetings we were used to hearing dialogue such as "I don't see why you have > > those draughty English cars, look at my beautiful VW, see how the doors > > fit, why it even floats! " > > "If Ted Kennedy had driven a VW, he would be president now." I wish I still had that National Lampoon! Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org From ernestls at home.com Tue Jul 31 21:15:46 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wired wrote: "But the first East Coast gathering, held over the weekend in a giant, deserted Best Western Motel in Marlboro, Massachussets, attracted only about a dozen exhibitors and less than a hundred visitors." That sounds kind of sad but sort of cozy at the same time. How was the crowd? Were they in a fun, happy mood or did they just wander around and leave? I could see how a small crowd in a deserted hotel might be fun if they're a friendly and chatty bunch of folks. Was there much of a flea market? Ernest From donm at cts.com Tue Jul 31 21:40:00 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) In-Reply-To: <007e01c11a1e$b5c6f2e0$a8779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, ajp166 wrote: > And if megan doesnt have it I do... in a box somewhere. > > Allison And if all else fails, I have these. ROBN-CPM SSDD CP/M 2.2 for DEC Robin VT-180 ROBNDIAG SSDD Diagnostic programs for DEC Robin VT-180 ROBNKERM SSDD Kermit configured for DEC Robin VT-180 - don > -----Original Message----- > From: Curt Vendel > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 6:46 PM > Subject: Re: DEC VT180 (Robin) > > > >David, > > > > I received a Robin at the VCFE show from a great guy who used to work > for > >DEC. Unfortunately my engine in my car suffered some severe damage and > is > >still up in the Honda dealer in Massachusettes so I had no way of > bringing > >the unit home and not wanting to leave it in the car, I gave it to Megan > who > >is the resident RT-11 expert as I thought it would be the best home for > the > >unit. She has a huge assortment of software specifically for the Robin > >VT180. > > > > > >Curt > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "David Betz" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:33 PM > >Subject: DEC VT180 (Robin) > > > > > >> I just picked up a DEC VT180 that seems to work except that it came > with > >no > >> software. Does anyone know where I can get a CP/M boot disk for it > and/or > >> the diagnostic disk? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> David Betz > >> dbetz@xlisper.mv.com > >> > > > > From kfergaso at swbell.net Tue Jul 31 21:30:07 2001 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller References: Message-ID: <002b01c11a31$e3551c10$9865fea9@fergason> I would say that there was a standard. Sun made narrow-diff SBUS cards, I believe Interphase made VME n-d cards. Some of the first RAID boxes I dealt with were n-d, and I have seen Seagate Elite 3 drives that were n-d, the ST43400ND. Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Master of all that Sucks" To: "Richard Erlacher" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:40 PM Subject: Re: OT: HVD SCSI controller > > Was there a narrow differential standard for SCSI? I've never seen narrow > differential. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Really!?? > > > > Which type (i.e. which termination arrangement) are these? Do they go on the > > target device or on the controller? Are they wide or narrow? > > > > Dick > > > From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 31 21:38:48 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > All of this publicity is a bad thing for computer collecting; too many > biz 'droids and other idiots with lots of cash and warehouse space > will start collecting older computers as an investment, not to use and > trade. Finding parts that we need, and systems that we want to play > with, will become more difficult. :-( R.D. We went over this before in grueling detail. It is not bad for the hobby. If anything it gets more people involved and interested. What if YOU were not in the practice of collecting old computers and you read that article? Would YOU decide that now would be a good time to collect old computers for profit later? Or you would decide, "Hey, neat! That's for me!" Don't be such a cynical bastard. You'll end up like Wayne Green. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 31 21:43:32 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam In-Reply-To: <0ba301c11a1a$55dcf360$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > I disagree for a few simple reasons: First, there aren't enough systems > worth the kind of money that would interest an investor/speculator. You need <...expungination...> > a nuisance, but in the long run greater awareness of the hobby will result > in more systems being saved. Mike, you hit the nail right on the head. You are right on with this issue. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Jul 31 21:50:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Ernest wrote: > That sounds kind of sad but sort of cozy at the same time. How was the > crowd? Were they in a fun, happy mood or did they just wander around > and leave? I could see how a small crowd in a deserted hotel might be > fun if they're a friendly and chatty bunch of folks. Was there much of > a flea market? The turnout was actually very decent for the size of the room, but I wanted it packed, and it was only "very populated" on day one and "a bit sparse" on day 2. That was the really the only disappointing thing. The turnout was far less than I expected. A lot of people who I'd expected to see didn't show (including the Rhodes Island Computer Museum). Based on the survey responses and the initial clamor for it, more people should have come. Where were all the people wanting a VCF East last weekend? Otherwise, the exhibition turnout was fantastic. A lot of VERY COOL machines running VERY COOL programs were exhibited. I was even blown away. There could have been more vendors of course, but the vendors that were there sold a very nice assortment of good stuff (and a whole lot of vintage software). The consignment section had a terrific assortment of items. I walked away at the end of the weekend with some very cool finds (after I gave the attendees a chance to get all the good stuff first ;) The main VCF is at least four times larger than VCF East was, and there's no reason that VCF East can't be the same size. I know there are more collectors on the east coast than bothered to show up. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 31 23:28:04 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > We went over this before in grueling detail. It is not bad for the hobby. > If anything it gets more people involved and interested. What if YOU were > not in the practice of collecting old computers and you read that article? > Would YOU decide that now would be a good time to collect old computers > for profit later? Or you would decide, "Hey, neat! That's for me!" I refuse to answer that on the grounds that it may incriminate me. ;-) > Don't be such a cynical bastard. You'll end up like Wayne Green. Don't worry, I'm not; my father is my mother's husband. BTW, who's Wayne Green? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 31 23:37:39 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Newsweek mentions VCFe and Sellam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: [...] > > a nuisance, but in the long run greater awareness of the hobby will result > > in more systems being saved. > > Mike, you hit the nail right on the head. You are right on with this > issue. Sellam, while I understand this, and agree with you in theory - and know that you've got the best interests computer preservation in mind, I'm not convinced that the world works like that. Does anyone know for certain that more systems will be saved because of a greater awareness of the hobby? Many people are aware that some collect and restore old cars, but that hasn't stopped our idiot governor, Paris Spenddenning, and our state Senatocrats, here in Maryland, from passing laws coercing junkyards to destroy any car over 10 years old within a few days or so of its arrival. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Jul 31 23:31:32 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: OT: HVD SCSI controller In-Reply-To: <200107312229.f6VMTfL64505@bg-tc-ppp23.monmouth.com> Message-ID: > Price was about $20/30 from a surplus house. I've seen them > anywhere from $20 or so up over $500 for the fancy external one. If you could mention the manufacturer... The places I looked (referenced in the scsi faq) were $500 for the bare internal version (50 pin) up to $795 for the external version (68 pin LVD support). That was where any price was mentioned at all (I figure the other places were in the "If you to ask..." league). I would need a 68 to 68 pin converter, LVD not required. From rdd at smart.net Tue Jul 31 23:53:26 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive... In-Reply-To: <604.612T1100T3514597optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 31 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > [Tony Duell wrote:] > >Why would _anybody_, particularly on this list, replace a card rather > >than replacing a single, easy-to-get 40 pin chip? > > Why not? Replacing the card would keep both intact, and it's not as though PC > serial cards are uncommon by any means. They should be the runner up prize in > our "tonne of 386'es" draw. =) I'm inclined to agree with Tony Duell on this. It's always a better idea to repair rather than replace, or board-swap, whenever possible. If someone has a replacement chip on hand, and the proper tools to replace the defective chip without damaging the circuit board, then it's much simpler, and quicker, to just replace the chip. Just because there's a glut of boards for these systems now doesn't mean there will be in a few years. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jul 31 23:59:57 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:25 2005 Subject: Wired covers VCF east In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010731235957.00978210@ubanproductions.com> Well, after driving 1000 miles each way (I live near Chicago) in order to exhibit and attend the VCF East show, I can say that I had a good time and am likely to go again next year. I was a bit supprised that more people did not show up, but then maybe they just did not know about it. Perhaps an article in the MIT alumnus newsletter about Eldon Hall talking there would have helped... The flyer could have been a little bit better too, indicating that the show was in the hotel rather than the deserted convention center next door, and perhaps listing the time of day for the various events. On the other hand, if someone had ventured out and made it as far as the empty convention center, they probably would have gone up to the hotel, just to make sure. All in all, it was a lot of fun. I saw a bunch of stuff that was fun and interesting to see, and I heard a number of interesting talks. I also met a number of people that I did not previously know. Maybe next year more people will get out of the house and spend a day or two enjoying VCF East 2.0, rather than wasting time writing endlessly about OT subject on this mailing list. Or maybe not, either way those who do make it out will have a good time. --tom At 07:50 PM 7/31/01 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Ernest wrote: > >> That sounds kind of sad but sort of cozy at the same time. How was the >> crowd? Were they in a fun, happy mood or did they just wander around >> and leave? I could see how a small crowd in a deserted hotel might be >> fun if they're a friendly and chatty bunch of folks. Was there much of >> a flea market? > >The turnout was actually very decent for the size of the room, but I >wanted it packed, and it was only "very populated" on day one and "a bit >sparse" on day 2. That was the really the only disappointing thing. The >turnout was far less than I expected. A lot of people who I'd expected to >see didn't show (including the Rhodes Island Computer Museum). Based on >the survey responses and the initial clamor for it, more people should >have come. Where were all the people wanting a VCF East last weekend? > >Otherwise, the exhibition turnout was fantastic. A lot of VERY COOL >machines running VERY COOL programs were exhibited. I was even blown >away. > >There could have been more vendors of course, but the vendors that were >there sold a very nice assortment of good stuff (and a whole lot of >vintage software). The consignment section had a terrific assortment of >items. I walked away at the end of the weekend with some very cool finds >(after I gave the attendees a chance to get all the good stuff first ;) > >The main VCF is at least four times larger than VCF East was, and there's >no reason that VCF East can't be the same size. I know there are more >collectors on the east coast than bothered to show up. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jul 31 23:27:28 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:30 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 Message-ID: Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 September 15th and 16th, 2001 Parkside Hall - San Jose Convention Center San Jose, California http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/ Mark you calendar! The fifth annual Vintage Computer Festival is scheduled for the weekend of September 15th and 16th at Parkside Hall in San Jose, California. The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The event features speakers, a vintage computer exhibition, and a vintage computer marketplace. We showcase all different types of computers for all differents kinds of platforms in all different shapes and sizes. EXHIBIT YOUR VINTAGE COMPUTER Vintage Computer Collectors: we want you! Exhibit your favorite computer in the Vintage Computer Exhibition. First, Second and Third place prizes will be awarded in 13 categories, including the coveted Best of Show. For complete details on the VCF 5.0 Exhibition, visit: http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/exhibit.php BUY/SELL/TRADE AT THE VINTAGE COMPUTER MARKETPLACE Do you have some vintage computer items you'd like to sell? Whether you rent a booth or sell on consignment, the Vintage Computer Festival Marketplace is the premier venue for selling old computers and related items. If you would like to rent a booth or inquire about consignment rates, please send e-mail to for more information or visit: http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/vendor.php TELL A FRIEND! TELL A FRIEND! TELL A FRIEND! We really hope to see you at the VCF 5.0! And remember, tell your friends!! A printable flyer in Word format can be downloaded here: http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/vcf50.doc Vintage Computer Festival 5.0 September 15th and 16th, 2001 Parkside Hall - San Jose Convention Center San Jose, California http://www.vintage.org/2001/main/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jul 31 15:35:39 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:36 2005 Subject: Speech chips again In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: Speech chips again" (Jul 31, 2:25) References: <894.612T1000T1454633optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10107312135.ZM6188@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jul 31, 2:25, Iggy Drougge wrote: > I'm offline ATM and can't tell whether this would be relevant, but if you're > into TI-99/4A, this is a good site indeed: > http://www.stanford.edu/~thierry1/ti99/titechpages.htm Thanks -- some of that is helpful, even though I did find the data sheets on the web. Now all I need is some time to play with it... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jul 30 19:36:11 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:41 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010731043106.HXZH2625.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> I have two versions of same cards, Port D-shell connector is 4 rows of holes, almost whole length of this card bracket (might be length of 36pin D shell type but thicker), 12 SRAM chips on bottom edge forward of this 32bit MCA edge connector, 5 SRAM chips at top edge towards rear. Most of area covered are ceramic PLCC types in two sizes, smaller ones 28pin and larger ones is 68pin, both sizes has quartz window in all of them. What left is mostly TTL one PAL, two IBM ASICs and four smaller ones by that odd connector in Al cap, one custom labeled 68pin plastic PLCC made by intel. One has engineering jumper wires is 74F2872, other with one engineering jumper is 93F0931, other is 93F0930. It was pulled from 3172-001 (in custom black box based on model 80-Axx planar 386dx-25 w/ cache aka motherboard) What I can determine this is interconnect boxen or something. IBM is very vague about it. Right now no boxen, too heavy. This is not OT, this parts just cleared 10 yr rule. :-) If there is demand for these, I'd like to sell or trade them. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Jul 31 08:31:00 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:06:47 2005 Subject: IBM MCA card to ID. In-Reply-To: <3B66DC63.551AE188@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010731174125.BACP18526.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:27:15 -0400 > From: Chad Fernandez > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM MCA card to ID. > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Wizard, > > Will you be keeping the custom black box? :-) I'd like to see pictures > of it, if you can do that easily. As I said, it is just simple black large box made for IBM, no provisions for mounting HDs, requires 220V power ONLY, front is HEX keypad w/ 4 digit LED (small!) Basically, oversized box to shuttle data between two different connections, basically to hold PSU, motherboard and all 8 cards, there's no openings for the I/O ports like vga, etc. To mount a little hd 30MB (!!) IBM used a MCA pass through card w/ MCA HD mounted on it, then it's plugged into topmost slot and kept in place from wobbling via a simple bent piece of sheetmetal and three screws. Two on card, one to chassis. It's made of heavy gauge steel so it is HEAVY and large. appox 9U rack but it doesn't have holes for rack ears so I left it behind. Top 4 screws uncrews 1/4 turn, take off top plate for card access. Loosen but not remove 8 screws (4 per side, slide them off by pulling upwards if needed for better access to other parts. Later 3172's (002 and 003) is based on 85 or 95 motherboard using dx2 50 complex card and at minimum 8MB installed. Newer boxens are now much efficient and vastly compact than this early days types. Cheers, Wizard > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA