From william.webb at juno.com Thu Feb 1 23:34:21 2001 From: william.webb at juno.com (William W Webb) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:28 2005 Subject: Lost my mailbox and some of your email addresses! Message-ID: <20010202.003423.314.0.william.webb@juno.com> Apologies in advance. I rolled back from Juno 5 (bug-ridden memory hog) to Juno 4 and although I used the backup option in 5, 4 doesn't have any way to read the backup file. I was in the middle of a sale (core memory frame) to one individual, haven't gotten fundage from him yet, and don't know how to let him know. I was discussing VAXstation 4000 VLC options with somebody else, also lost. Thanks for your forebearance. William W. Webb Owner of: ----------------------------- VAXstation 4000 VLC VAXstation 3100 Model 38 VAXstation 3100 Model 76 DEC Multia UDB (VMS 7.2 Hobbyist-licenses) DEC PC XL590 (Win NT4/Linux 6.0) and numerous quality firearms, but that's another mailing list. ;-) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 1 01:19:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines In-Reply-To: <20010201052853.YLRW3627.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I don't know if the article you are looking for is in Kilobaud, but I > worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a few years. In fact, > I think it Became Byte. Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in September, 1975. Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or beginning of 1979. I don't have the issues in front of me to check but I believe this is where you got it mixed up with Byte. Kilobaud and Microcomputing were seperate mags that merged at some point. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 1 01:20:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in September, 1975. > Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or beginning of 1979. ^^^^ Sorry, make that 1977. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Feb 1 06:32:34 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines References: Message-ID: <000d01c08c4b$10c73360$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Kilobaud and Microcomputing were two separate magazines from different publishers, but they never merged. "Kilobaud Microcomputing" was always the title of the publication. I worked for the publisher, Wayne Green, who was one of the people who started BYTE. When his ex-wife took over BYTE, Wayne started Kilobaud. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 2:19 AM Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > I don't know if the article you are looking for is in Kilobaud, but I > > worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a few years. In fact, > > I think it Became Byte. > > Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in September, 1975. > Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or beginning of 1979. > I don't have the issues in front of me to check but I believe this is > where you got it mixed up with Byte. Kilobaud and Microcomputing were > seperate mags that merged at some point. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Feb 1 07:09:24 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD0@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Were you there at the end? The last issue I got had a different masthead, and IIRC, the internal format had changed. regards, -dq > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Nadeau [mailto:menadeau@mediaone.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:33 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > > > Kilobaud and Microcomputing were two separate magazines from different > publishers, but they never merged. "Kilobaud Microcomputing" > was always the > title of the publication. I worked for the publisher, Wayne > Green, who was > one of the people who started BYTE. When his ex-wife took > over BYTE, Wayne > started Kilobaud. > > --Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 2:19 AM > Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > > > > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > > > I don't know if the article you are looking for is in > Kilobaud, but I > > > worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a > few years. In > fact, > > > I think it Became Byte. > > > > Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in > September, 1975. > > Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or > beginning of 1979. > > I don't have the issues in front of me to check but I > believe this is > > where you got it mixed up with Byte. Kilobaud and > Microcomputing were > > seperate mags that merged at some point. > > > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer > Festival > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 1 08:27:50 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: OT: Put Down Engineers" Week Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010201092750.3177efde@mailhost.intellistar.net> I thought most of you could relate to this! :-) Joe >Subject: Put Down Engineers" Week > >Q: When does a person decide to become an engineer? >A: When he realizes he doesn't have the charisma to be an undertaker. > >Q: What do engineers use for birth control? >A: Their personalities. > >Q: How can you tell an extroverted engineer? >A: When he talks to you, he looks at your shoes instead of his own. > >Q: Why did the engineers cross the road? >A: Because they looked in the file, and that's what they did last year. > >Q: How do you drive an engineer completely insane? >A: Tie him to a chair, stand in front of him, and fold up a road map the >wrong way. > >And you might be an engineer if: > >Choosing between buying flowers for your wife and upgrading your RAM is a >problem. (This is a no-brainer - RAM all the way.) > >You still own a slide rule and know how to use it. > >You take a cruise so you can go on a personal tour of the engine room. > >In college, you thought Spring Break was metal fatigue failure. (We had >Spring Break in college ? I didn't know that - I must have missed it.) > >The salespeople at the local computer store can't answer any of your >questions. (Yeah - some knowledgeable salespeople they are.) > >At an air show, you know how fast the skydivers are falling. >For your wife's birthday you gave her a new CD-ROM drive or a Palm Pilot. >(Look at it this way - she's very lucky I even remembered her birthday with >all the important things going on in my mind.) > >You can quote scenes from any Monte Python movie. > >You can type 70 words per minute but you can't read your own handwriting. >(It's a code, fool !!) > >You comment to your wife that her straight hair is nice and parallel. (You >forgot the humorous followup question: "What'd you do - stick your finger >in the wall outlet ?" Hahahahaha !!!!!) > >You sit backwards on Disney rides so you can see how they do the special >effects. > >You have saved every power cord from all your broken appliances. > >You have more friends on the Internet than in real life. (What's a >"friend"?) > >You know what http:// stands for. (Damn right, and what's more, I'm not >going to tell you.) > >You look forward to Christmas so you can put together the kids toys. (Damn >right again - that's why I had kids - so I'd have toys to assemble on >Christmas Eve - why else and so what ?) > >You see a good design, and have to change it. (Hey, I can always make a >good thing better.) > >You spent more on your calculator than you did on your wedding ring. > >You think that people yawning around you are sleep deprived. (I'm really >not sure why they are yawning, but I know it's not due to my vibrant >personality.) > >You window shop at Radio Shack. (I hate the drool left on the windows by >the previous engineer window shoppers.) > >Your laptop computer cost more than your car. > >Your wife hasn't the foggiest idea of what you do at work. (My wife hasn't >the foggiest idea about a lot of things.) > >You've already calculated how much you make per second. > >You've tried to repair a $5 radio. (It seemed like a good idea when I >started.) > From cbajpai at mediaone.net Thu Feb 1 07:37:51 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines In-Reply-To: <000d01c08c4b$10c73360$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: What is Wayne Green doing today? I really enjoyed reading Byte, 80-Micro and a few of his other magazines. I had email contact with David Ahl (publisher of Creative Computing) several years ago and he is now a financial planner in NJ. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Nadeau Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:33 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines Kilobaud and Microcomputing were two separate magazines from different publishers, but they never merged. "Kilobaud Microcomputing" was always the title of the publication. I worked for the publisher, Wayne Green, who was one of the people who started BYTE. When his ex-wife took over BYTE, Wayne started Kilobaud. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 2:19 AM Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > I don't know if the article you are looking for is in Kilobaud, but I > > worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a few years. In fact, > > I think it Became Byte. > > Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in September, 1975. > Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or beginning of 1979. > I don't have the issues in front of me to check but I believe this is > where you got it mixed up with Byte. Kilobaud and Microcomputing were > seperate mags that merged at some point. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From bwit at pobox.com Thu Feb 1 08:40:06 2001 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines In-Reply-To: References: <20010201052853.YLRW3627.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010201083642.00acf890@ruffboy.com> At 11:19 PM 1/31/01 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > I don't know if the article you are looking for is in Kilobaud, but I > > worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a few years. In fact, > > I think it Became Byte. > >Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in September, 1975. >Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or beginning of 1979. >I don't have the issues in front of me to check but I believe this is >where you got it mixed up with Byte. Kilobaud and Microcomputing were >seperate mags that merged at some point. Kilobaud and Byte were both started by Wayne Green. IIRC Kilobaud grew out of another Green publication for Hams called 73. 1976 might be right but it was started before 79. I don't recall a mag called Microcomputing that merged with Kilobaud but at some point it changed it's name to Kilobaud Microcomputing and later 80 Microcomputing. Regards, Bob -------------------------------------------------------- "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." -- Mark Twain From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Feb 1 08:44:10 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines References: Message-ID: <0bd501c08c5d$736945a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Wayne still publishes 73 magazine for ham radio operators, but he's slowed down quite a bit--he must be pushing 80 by now. There's a Web site for his former employees that you might want to check out: http://www.detray.com/ww/ --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chandra Bajpai" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 8:37 AM Subject: RE: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > What is Wayne Green doing today? I really enjoyed reading Byte, 80-Micro and > a few of his other magazines. I had email contact with David Ahl (publisher > of Creative Computing) several years ago and he is now a financial planner > in NJ. > > -Chandra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Nadeau > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:33 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > > > Kilobaud and Microcomputing were two separate magazines from different > publishers, but they never merged. "Kilobaud Microcomputing" was always the > title of the publication. I worked for the publisher, Wayne Green, who was > one of the people who started BYTE. When his ex-wife took over BYTE, Wayne > started Kilobaud. > > --Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 2:19 AM > Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > > > > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > > > I don't know if the article you are looking for is in Kilobaud, but I > > > worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a few years. In > fact, > > > I think it Became Byte. > > > > Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in September, 1975. > > Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or beginning of 1979. > > I don't have the issues in front of me to check but I believe this is > > where you got it mixed up with Byte. Kilobaud and Microcomputing were > > seperate mags that merged at some point. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Feb 1 08:57:17 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD0@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <0be701c08c5f$4bca3a20$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Yes, but I worked on a couple of sister publication, never Kilobaud. My recollections are fuzzy, but the advent of the IBM PC and clones hastened its demise. Rather than incorporate PC coverage into Kilobaud, the company launched a new magazine, Desktop Computing, which left CP/M and S-100 coverage to Kilobaud. Apple II, TRS-80, and Commodore coverage was limited in Kilobaud, too, because the company had magazines for all those systems. We all knew in the early 80s that Kilobaud was doomed, and the best people went to the new publications. Readership stayed strong, as I recall, but advertising dropped dramatically after 1981. Also, IDG bought Wayne out at about that time, and they probably had less patience than Wayne would have. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: RE: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > Were you there at the end? The last issue I got had a > different masthead, and IIRC, the internal format had > changed. > > regards, > -dq > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Nadeau [mailto:menadeau@mediaone.net] > > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:33 AM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > > > > > > Kilobaud and Microcomputing were two separate magazines from different > > publishers, but they never merged. "Kilobaud Microcomputing" > > was always the > > title of the publication. I worked for the publisher, Wayne > > Green, who was > > one of the people who started BYTE. When his ex-wife took > > over BYTE, Wayne > > started Kilobaud. > > > > --Mike > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 2:19 AM > > Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > > > > > > > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > > > > > I don't know if the article you are looking for is in > > Kilobaud, but I > > > > worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a > > few years. In > > fact, > > > > I think it Became Byte. > > > > > > Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in > > September, 1975. > > > Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or > > beginning of 1979. > > > I don't have the issues in front of me to check but I > > believe this is > > > where you got it mixed up with Byte. Kilobaud and > > Microcomputing were > > > seperate mags that merged at some point. > > > > > > Sellam Ismail > > Vintage Computer > > Festival > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------ > > ---- > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > > From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Feb 1 09:19:42 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines References: <20010201052853.YLRW3627.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <4.3.1.2.20010201083642.00acf890@ruffboy.com> Message-ID: <0bf701c08c62$6dce63a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I stand corrected. The "Kilobaud" was dropped around 1982; I thought that it remained in small letters, but I just checked my back issues and it's gone. However, 80 Microcomputing was a separate sister publication to Kilobaud devoted to TRS-80 systems. It did change its name to 80 Micro in the 80s. Sorry for the confusion. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Withers" To: ; Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > At 11:19 PM 1/31/01 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > > > I don't know if the article you are looking for is in Kilobaud, but I > > > worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a few years. In fact, > > > I think it Became Byte. > > > >Not true on either count. Byte started at issue #1 in September, 1975. > >Kilobaud Microcomputing started at the end of 1976 or beginning of 1979. > >I don't have the issues in front of me to check but I believe this is > >where you got it mixed up with Byte. Kilobaud and Microcomputing were > >seperate mags that merged at some point. > > Kilobaud and Byte were both started by Wayne Green. IIRC Kilobaud grew out > of another Green publication for Hams called 73. 1976 might be right but > it was started before 79. > > I don't recall a mag called Microcomputing that merged with Kilobaud but at > some point it changed it's name to Kilobaud Microcomputing and later 80 > Microcomputing. > > Regards, > Bob > -------------------------------------------------------- > "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, > he will not bite you. This is the principal difference > between a dog and a man." > -- Mark Twain > > From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 1 11:46:54 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines References: <0bd501c08c5d$736945a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <3A79A10E.7A4D2D9D@rain.org> Michael Nadeau wrote: > > Wayne still publishes 73 magazine for ham radio operators, but he's slowed > down quite a bit--he must be pushing 80 by now. > > There's a Web site for his former employees that you might want to check > out: http://www.detray.com/ww/ And of course, Wayne has his own web site at http://www.waynegreen.com/ and he is as opinionated as ever :). I must admit though, some of his editorials in 73 Magazine are pretty interesting. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 1 11:54:51 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010201083642.00acf890@ruffboy.com> Message-ID: Where the hell were you guys at the time??????? Kilobaud did not become Byte, nor vice-versa. Wayne Green started Kilobaud after his ex got Byte in a divorce settlement. He also had a Ham magazine. Later, he started 80 Microcomputing (a TRS-80 mag) as a spin-off from Kilobaud. The way that computer magazines work: I bought issues at newsstands (DeLauer), and at computer stores. A given magazine would become stable, and offer a substantial amount of technical information. When I was sure that it was stable, and not about to change, I would subscribe. The FIRST issue of my subscription would ALWAYS carry the "GOOD NEWS" that either the technical material was discontinued, or was being spun-off to be in a separate journal, or closing down. For example: MY subscription to Kilobaud (for TRS-80 stuff) after years of single issues, caused the creation of 80 Microcomputing. MY subscription to 80 Microcomputing closed it. My subscription to Dr. Dobb's led to focus shift to management. (I have subscribed and lapsed DDJ many times. Notice the everchanging subtitltes!) MY subscription to PC Magazine caused PC Tech Journal. MY subscription to PC Tech Journal closed it. MY re-subscription to PC magazine caused the cessation of program listings. MY subscription to MicroCornucopia closed it. I got comps of Bytes for MANY years. When I subscribed, . . . I FINALLY got reliable source for MicroTimes and Computer Currents (Once "Computer Classifieds"), . . . My subscription to Programmer's Journal, . . . My subscription to MS Systems Journal, . . . Interface Age, , , , Creative Computing, . . . My [free] subscription to PC-Week has lapsed because I just wouldn't escalate the lies high enough ("Purchase authority for $45M per year, ...") I'm getting InfoWorld again, . . . What should I subscribe to next? BTW, for looking for personal mentions, etc.(the origin of THIS thread), for ~1988 on, use Computer Select/Computer Library. BTW2, guess why it isn't what it once was. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Feb 1 12:39:33 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines References: <0bd501c08c5d$736945a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> <3A79A10E.7A4D2D9D@rain.org> Message-ID: <0f7d01c08c7e$54e90860$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> One of my first jobs working for Wayne was editing those editorials--a task the rest of the staff was happy to hand off. You should have seen some of the stuff that never saw print. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > > Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > > Wayne still publishes 73 magazine for ham radio operators, but he's slowed > > down quite a bit--he must be pushing 80 by now. > > > > There's a Web site for his former employees that you might want to check > > out: http://www.detray.com/ww/ > > And of course, Wayne has his own web site at http://www.waynegreen.com/ and > he is as opinionated as ever :). I must admit though, some of his editorials > in 73 Magazine are pretty interesting. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 1 12:56:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: OT: Put Down Engineers" Week In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010201092750.3177efde@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 1, 1 09:27:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010201/b83910ee/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 1 11:51:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines In-Reply-To: <0f7d01c08c7e$54e90860$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > One of my first jobs working for Wayne was editing those editorials--a task > the rest of the staff was happy to hand off. You should have seen some of > the stuff that never saw print. Such as...? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Feb 1 13:14:43 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD2@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > One of my first jobs working for Wayne was editing those editorials--a task > > the rest of the staff was happy to hand off. You should have seen some of > > the stuff that never saw print. > > Such as...? The ads for ??? that featured "Lil' Ample Annie" were something I looked forward to every month... -dq From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Feb 1 13:32:40 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines References: Message-ID: <0f9c01c08c85$c0b4fe80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Well, the last editorial he ever wrote for the IDG publications was pulled entirely. He was quite bitter at the time because by then he had become associated with the magazines he founded in name only. He sent the same editorial to all the magazines, and it managed to insult every class of computer user--Commodore, Radio Shack, Apple, etc. I don't recall the specifics, but I think I still have a copy somewhere. Wayne never complained about us pulling the more inflammatory stuff. I think it became a sport for him to see what he could get by his editors. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:51 PM Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > One of my first jobs working for Wayne was editing those editorials--a task > > the rest of the staff was happy to hand off. You should have seen some of > > the stuff that never saw print. > > Such as...? > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From tosteve at yahoo.com Thu Feb 1 14:23:26 2001 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD2@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010201202326.46973.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Speaking of Ampl'Anny... http://members.home.com/obsoletetechnology/pics/anny.jpg Sorry if it's slow, @Home has been having problems lately... Steve. --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > > > One of my first jobs working for Wayne was > editing those editorials--a > task > > > the rest of the staff was happy to hand off. You > should have seen some > of > > > the stuff that never saw print. > > > > Such as...? > > The ads for ??? that featured "Lil' Ample Annie" > were something > I looked forward to every month... > > -dq __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Thu Feb 1 17:28:13 2001 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: What is this system? [LONG] Message-ID: <87k87aq8z6.fsf@yodacity.local> Can anyone identify the system in the following picture? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: whatsthis.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1881 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010201/3a661ad2/whatsthis.jpg -------------- next part -------------- I hope to gain the understating of everyone. I did my best to compress this picture as much as possible. Gimp accomplished an interesting 1.8KB for a 279x162 grayscale picture, using very low quality and smoothing. This results in 2.5KB in base64 encoding (35 lines). Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Feb 1 17:55:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: OT: Put Down Engineers" Week References: Message-ID: <000d01c08caa$6ad13b80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> plz see remarks below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:56 AM Subject: Re: OT: Put Down Engineers" Week > > >And you might be an engineer if: > > > > > > > > >At an air show, you know how fast the skydivers are falling. > > Or at least I can calculate it... > That's not so easy ... remember, the effect of the air on velocity is Vo*e^-(bt/m) where b is the balistic constant of the parachutist. That can vary considerably with long-terme effects of diet, exercise, etc. > ... From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 1 17:01:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DCA@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <1152.433T650T14291optimus@canit.se> Douglas Quebbeman skrev: >> >Actually that's later Macs. The earliest that do have 72 pin simms I >> >can think of is LC III w/ 8MB which I have learning against TV stand >> >to be used w/ BSD if I can not find 68882 rated for 25mhz FPU to use >> >68k-linux because I don't wish to buy apple's 7.1 for it. >> >> But why exactly OS 7.1? After all, you may download 7.5 for free from >Apple, >> as well as earlier versions. All save for 7.1. >There are *updates* to 7.5 (like 7.5.1, etc) that are freely >available from Apple's sites, but I've never seen 7.5 itself >freely available for download. I only have a direct link to the Swedish version of 7.5.3, but there are a lot of English versions. Let me have a look. Hmm, here is a truncated link to version 7.0.1: ftp://ftp.apple.com ... /System/Older_System/System_7.0.x/System_7.0.1.smi.bin Ah yes, here is 7.5.3: http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/artnum/n11346 It's just a matter of looking around, or perhaps reading Pickle's classic Mac FAQ. Try to have a look at http://www.lowendmac.com/. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Life begins at '030. Fun begins at '040. Impotence begins at '86. From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 1 17:03:28 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <200101311939.LAA11272@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <1178.433T1400T35145optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> >Actually that's later Macs. The earliest that do have 72 pin simms I >> >can think of is LC III w/ 8MB which I have learning against TV stand >> >to be used w/ BSD if I can not find 68882 rated for 25mhz FPU to use >> >68k-linux because I don't wish to buy apple's 7.1 for it. >> >> But why exactly OS 7.1? After all, you may download 7.5 for free from >> Apple, as well as earlier versions. All save for 7.1. >Because 7.1 is probably the best of the System 7 versions (save 7.6), IMHO. >It's small and lacks much of the garbage that was in 7.5.x. True, but if you haven't got it, you haven't, and it shouldn't really be the decisive factor whether you choose MacOS or NetBSD. >7.6 is good but you need a correspondingly buffer system to run it. All of >my 68Ks run 7.1 except the SE/30 and the Plus, which run 6.0.8 -- even the >NetBSD IIci :-) Run 7.1 on the SE/30, it deserves it. I've got a Centris with version 8, but then again I only run what comes on the hard drive. I don't really feel like installing 7.5.3 on every Mac I've got. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Kyosuke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson! Jag: Det heter du inte alls! From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Thu Feb 1 18:48:34 2001 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: OT: Put Down Engineers" Week In-Reply-To: <000d01c08caa$6ad13b80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <000d01c08caa$6ad13b80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <01020200483400.30586@kronos> On Thu, 01 Feb 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > >At an air show, you know how fast the skydivers are falling. > > > > Or at least I can calculate it... > > That's not so easy ... remember, the effect of the air on velocity is > Vo*e^-(bt/m) where b is the balistic constant of the parachutist. That can > vary considerably with long-terme effects of diet, exercise, etc. Assume a spherical parachutist, as in all good Physics problems? ;-) Hmmm...I've just thought that I've been lurking on this list for some time, and posted once or twice, but never really introduced myself. So, for the purposes of brevity: Hi all :) I'm a student who likes lots of old kit, but doesn't have the space or the money to store and buy some really nice stuff. Most I manage to get from skips or University department clearouts. I don't seem to have anything as interesting as you guys have at home, but for those who care: Sharp MZ-80K, Apple ][c, Acorn BBC B, Perkin-Elmer DataStation 3600, Microvax 3600, MicroVAX 3800, Data General mv2700 (IIRC), a Sun 3/50, and assorted PCs, some Amstrad Word Processors, and a couple of other Suns. I may have missed some things out. I'm here to learn as much as possible about any equipment, and maybe even contribute something useful at some point :-) Dan -- dankolb@ox.compsoc.net Oxford University Computer Society Secretary --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 1 19:20:47 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <1178.433T1400T35145optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Feb 2, 1 00:03:28 am" Message-ID: <200102020120.RAA12056@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >7.6 is good but you need a correspondingly buffer system to run it. All of > >my 68Ks run 7.1 except the SE/30 and the Plus, which run 6.0.8 -- even the > >NetBSD IIci :-) > > Run 7.1 on the SE/30, it deserves it. At 16MHz it likes 6.0.8 much, much better. Also, it has to run 6.0.8 because it runs AppleShare v2 so that it can network boot the Apple IIgs network. I've toyed with installing 6.0.8 on the IIsi also, but decided 7.1 is worth a little bump in performance. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A penny saved is stupid. --------------------------------------------------- From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Feb 1 19:31:15 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Raytheon 704 Message-ID: <97.10a8b1d9.27ab67e3@aol.com> Anyone out there have a Raytheon 704 computer, circa 1977. I just found a copy of the Users Manual at Goodwill. No computer unfortunately. If anyone is interested in it contact me offline, otherwise it will show up on eBay. Paxton Portland, Oregon From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Feb 1 20:12:28 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: What is this system? [LONG] In-Reply-To: <87k87aq8z6.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010201181212.02106d50@208.226.86.10> Looks like a GE DPS-6 or DPS-8 --Chuck At 11:28 PM 2/1/01 +0000, you wrote: > Can anyone identify the system in the following picture? > > > > I hope to gain the understating of everyone. I did my best to >compress this picture as much as possible. Gimp accomplished an >interesting 1.8KB for a 279x162 grayscale picture, using very low >quality and smoothing. This results in 2.5KB in base64 encoding (35 >lines). > > Cheers, > >-- > >*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura >*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >*** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: >*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Thu Feb 1 23:18:16 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... Message-ID: <000c01c08cd7$8ca429c0$0264640a@mediaone.net> Hi all, I got today an EPSON HX-40. it looks exactly like the HC-41 that I've been wondering about. It seems like the hc-41 is a OEM'd version of the HX-40 with a different keyboard. The HC-41 I have was used to control a CNC machine of some sort. Pretty cool.... Francois PS: I also scored a TRS80 100, a pair of COCO joystics a lisa mouse new in the box and a bunch of magazines: popular electronics Nov 1975 with an article about the Altair 680 and a bunch of Remark (one with the introduction of the hero 2000) Oh and a diagnostic cart for the COCO too. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Feb 1 21:25:32 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It looks like IBM has torn a page from Compaq's book. The drive technical support page of www.storage.ibm.com has an ever dwindling number of older harddrive technical information available. The old 0661, 0663 drives tech documents are missing but were available a few months ago. Time to take printouts of those oddball drive specs. > On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > This needs immediate action everyone, Compaq is in the process of removing > > ALL of the old "Digital Equipment Corp" information from the Web. We've > > already lost the DEC Technical Journal articles that were on-line, and the > > Digital Timeline pages. This is a major blow to archivists and > > preservationists. EVERYONE needs to contect Compaq/DEC and ask that they > > restore those pages to the web. Please! > > > > --Chuck -- From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Thu Feb 1 21:32:57 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at "Feb 1, 2001 09:54:51 am" Message-ID: <20010202033302Z433930-2594+565@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > Where the hell were you guys at the time??????? > > > Kilobaud did not become Byte, nor vice-versa. Wayne Green started > Kilobaud after his ex got Byte in a divorce settlement. Where did you get this from?? Wayne Green was never involved with Byte. Kilobaud (actually the ham magaize) and Byte were competitors from the very beginning. I worked with a number of the Byte people in the early years and I never heard this story (I heard a lot of other interesting ones). > > He also had a Ham magazine. > Number of early computer articles appeared in that magazine, but for the life of me I can't remember the name of it. Wayne Green was quite a controversial character (no relation) at the time. He was well known for slaming other magazines for real or imagined slights. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From sieler at allegro.com Thu Feb 1 21:38:01 2001 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: IBM APL for PC help: missing VM232___.AIO Message-ID: <200102020338.TAA22388@opus.allegro.com> hi, I just got an unopened copy of IBM's APL for the PC, from 1988 (apparently). There's a 5.25" floppy disk in it, and one file is unreadable: VM232___.AIO. Does anyone have a copy I can borrow? thanks! -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.sieler.com From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Feb 1 21:38:09 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: OT: Put Down Engineers" Week In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010201092750.3177efde@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On 01-Feb-2001 Joe wrote: >>You have saved every power cord from all your broken appliances. GUILTY! *sigh* -Philip From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Feb 1 21:47:35 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010201194534.01b3e2d0@agora.rdrop.com> Ok... Just when you've heard everything! This guy could use some help, and while I've got a similar machine in the collection, I've got *zip* information on so probably can't be of much help. Anyone else give him (and the space program) a hand? -jim >From: "King, Gary E" >To: "'jimw@agora.rdrop.com'" >Subject: Naked Mini Broke >Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:30:18 -0500 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) >X-Status: >X-Keywords: > >Dear Computer Garage, > >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure >why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku >band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? if >so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out. > >Gary King jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. Current web site and email shown above From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Feb 1 21:52:30 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... References: <000c01c08cd7$8ca429c0$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: <016101c08ccb$92ba3360$c6731fd1@default> Sounds like a great haul, will have come out for a look. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue & Francois" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:18 PM Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... > Hi all, > I got today an EPSON HX-40. it looks exactly like the HC-41 that I've been > wondering about. > It seems like the hc-41 is a OEM'd version of the HX-40 with a different > keyboard. > The HC-41 I have was used to control a CNC machine of some sort. > Pretty cool.... > Francois > PS: I also scored a TRS80 100, a pair of COCO joystics a lisa mouse new in > the box and a bunch of magazines: popular electronics Nov 1975 with an > article about the Altair 680 and a bunch of Remark (one with the > introduction of the hero 2000) > Oh and a diagnostic cart for the COCO too. > > From djenner at halcyon.com Thu Feb 1 21:49:04 2001 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Magazines References: <20010202033302Z433930-2594+565@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3A7A2E30.84030642@halcyon.com> Hmmm... Is it coincidence that we have a "Mark GREEN" here who didn't look up the original sources? Byte, Issue #1: Copyright 1975 by Green Publishing, Inc. Page 9: from the Publisher... how BYTE started continued to Page 96: (signed) Wayne Green Better brush up on your family history! Dave Mark Green wrote: > > > Where the hell were you guys at the time??????? > > > > > > Kilobaud did not become Byte, nor vice-versa. Wayne Green started > > Kilobaud after his ex got Byte in a divorce settlement. > > Where did you get this from?? Wayne Green was never involved > with Byte. Kilobaud (actually the ham magaize) and Byte were > competitors from the very beginning. I worked with a number > of the Byte people in the early years and I never heard this > story (I heard a lot of other interesting ones). > > > > > He also had a Ham magazine. > > > > Number of early computer articles appeared in that magazine, but > for the life of me I can't remember the name of it. Wayne Green > was quite a controversial character (no relation) at the time. He > was well known for slaming other magazines for real or imagined > slights. > > -- > Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca > McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 > Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) > University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 1 21:51:31 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Magazines References: <20010202033302Z433930-2594+565@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3A7A2EC3.9D9106B9@rain.org> Mark Green wrote: > > > Where the hell were you guys at the time??????? > > > > > > Kilobaud did not become Byte, nor vice-versa. Wayne Green started > > Kilobaud after his ex got Byte in a divorce settlement. > > Where did you get this from?? Wayne Green was never involved > with Byte. Kilobaud (actually the ham magaize) and Byte were Wayne Green was involved with Byte Magazine at the beginning although I don't know for how long. His name was listed IIRC the publisher on at least the first issue of Byte. From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Thu Feb 1 22:18:09 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: <3A7A2E30.84030642@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at "Feb 1, 2001 07:49:04 pm" Message-ID: <20010202041811Z433932-2592+548@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > Hmmm... > > Is it coincidence that we have a "Mark GREEN" here who didn't > look up the original sources? Unfortunately my early issues of Byte are about 10,000 miles away, couldn't afford to move them (as it was the air freight to Hong Kong was a killer, but did manage to bring a SUN and SGI with me, the PDP11s were too heavy). > > Byte, Issue #1: Copyright 1975 by Green Publishing, Inc. > > Page 9: from the Publisher... > how BYTE started > continued to > Page 96: (signed) Wayne Green I stand corrected on this, sorry. His involvement must have been very short lived and quickly forgotten. By the time I got involved (second or third year, I don't quite remember, I think it was 1977), Byte was run by a single (as in unmarried) guy (again I forget the name and have no way of looking it up). If I remember correctly he did end up marrying someone involved with the magazine, but that was quite a few years later. > > Better brush up on your family history! > As I said, he was no relation of mine. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From edick at idcomm.com Thu Feb 1 22:37:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: OT: Put Down Engineers" Week References: <000d01c08caa$6ad13b80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <01020200483400.30586@kronos> Message-ID: <001a01c08cd1$ddd12a60$1192fea9@idcomm.com> plz see wisecrack below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Kolb" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 5:48 PM Subject: Re: OT: Put Down Engineers" Week > On Thu, 01 Feb 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > >At an air show, you know how fast the skydivers are falling. > > > > > > Or at least I can calculate it... > > > > That's not so easy ... remember, the effect of the air on velocity is > > Vo*e^-(bt/m) where b is the balistic constant of the parachutist. That can > > vary considerably with long-terme effects of diet, exercise, etc. > > Assume a spherical parachutist, as in all good Physics problems? ;-) > Gee! ... He must've been snacking mightily between meals! > > Hmmm...I've just thought that I've been lurking on this list for some time, > and posted once or twice, but never really introduced myself. So, for the > purposes of brevity: > > Hi all :) I'm a student who likes lots of old kit, but doesn't have the space > or the money to store and buy some really nice stuff. Most I manage to get > from skips or University department clearouts. I don't seem to have anything > as interesting as you guys have at home, but for those who care: Sharp > MZ-80K, Apple ][c, Acorn BBC B, Perkin-Elmer DataStation 3600, Microvax 3600, > MicroVAX 3800, Data General mv2700 (IIRC), a Sun 3/50, and assorted PCs, some > Amstrad Word Processors, and a couple of other Suns. I may have missed some > things out. > I'm here to learn as much as possible about any equipment, and maybe even > contribute something useful at some point :-) > > Dan > -- > dankolb@ox.compsoc.net Oxford University Computer Society Secretary > > --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or > opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Feb 1 22:49:55 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: <20010202041811Z433932-2592+548@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> References: <3A7A2E30.84030642@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010201204922.01ff78a0@208.226.86.10> >quite remember, I think it was 1977), Byte was run by a single (as >in unmarried) guy (again I forget the name and have no way of looking >it up). IIRC that would be Carl Helmers --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Thu Feb 1 22:43:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: Magazines References: <20010202041811Z433932-2592+548@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <003801c08cd2$c1602ba0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Having been interested in the "kill-a-broad" mag back in the '70's, I heard the same stories about Mark Green and his ex taking BYTE away from him, and he then starting Kilobaud. I always though Kilobaud was a bit better than Byte, having fewer of the superficial "it's great and wonderful!" reviews than BYTE. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Green" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Magazines > > Hmmm... > > > > Is it coincidence that we have a "Mark GREEN" here who didn't > > look up the original sources? > > Unfortunately my early issues of Byte are about 10,000 miles > away, couldn't afford to move them (as it was the air freight > to Hong Kong was a killer, but did manage to bring a SUN > and SGI with me, the PDP11s were too heavy). > > > > > Byte, Issue #1: Copyright 1975 by Green Publishing, Inc. > > > > Page 9: from the Publisher... > > how BYTE started > > continued to > > Page 96: (signed) Wayne Green > > I stand corrected on this, sorry. > > His involvement must have been very short lived and quickly forgotten. > By the time I got involved (second or third year, I don't > quite remember, I think it was 1977), Byte was run by a single (as > in unmarried) guy (again I forget the name and have no way of looking > it up). If I remember correctly he did end up marrying someone > involved with the magazine, but that was quite a few years later. > > > > > Better brush up on your family history! > > > > As I said, he was no relation of mine. > > -- > Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca > McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 > Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) > University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 1 22:04:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines In-Reply-To: <0f9c01c08c85$c0b4fe80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > Well, the last editorial he ever wrote for the IDG publications was pulled > entirely. He was quite bitter at the time because by then he had become > associated with the magazines he founded in name only. He sent the same > editorial to all the magazines, and it managed to insult every class of > computer user--Commodore, Radio Shack, Apple, etc. I don't recall the > specifics, but I think I still have a copy somewhere. Post it! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 1 23:15:39 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:29 2005 Subject: What is this system? [LONG] Message-ID: Uh, DPS-6's and 8's were made by Honeywell, not GE, and it doesn't really look like either of them, from the one I own and the pictures I've seen... It really looks more like some kind of huge printer or something... and there's what looks like an LSI ADM terminal of some sort too, and the Honeywell terminals don't look like those... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 1 22:07:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: What is this system? [LONG] In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010201181212.02106d50@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Looks like a GE DPS-6 or DPS-8 That would've been my guess but the sketch was too sketchy to say for sure. If it is, I actually have a couple of the stand-alone workstations with the terminals on top. The terminal does look like an ADM-3A though. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 1 22:09:05 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... In-Reply-To: <000c01c08cd7$8ca429c0$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > I got today an EPSON HX-40. it looks exactly like the HC-41 that I've > been wondering about. It seems like the hc-41 is a OEM'd version of > the HX-40 with a different keyboard. The HC-41 I have was used to > control a CNC machine of some sort. The only time I've ever seen an HC-41 was as the contoller for a CNC lathe. I asked the proprietor of the surplus shop if I could buy the HC-41 separately, and he said sure, buy it for $(whatever the price of the lathe was) and I could get a free lathe with it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 1 22:10:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: <20010202033302Z433930-2594+565@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Mark Green wrote: > > He also had a Ham magazine. > > Number of early computer articles appeared in that magazine, but > for the life of me I can't remember the name of it. Wayne Green 73 ;) I have a good collection of 73, though not yet complete. It does have some pretty good computer articles, generally one per issue starting from the mid-70s. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 1 22:12:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010201194534.01b3e2d0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote: > This guy could use some help, and while I've got a similar machine in the > collection, I've got *zip* information on so probably can't be of much help. > > Anyone else give him (and the space program) a hand? > > -jim > > >From: "King, Gary E" > >To: "'jimw@agora.rdrop.com'" > >Subject: Naked Mini Broke > >Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:30:18 -0500 > >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > >X-Status: > >X-Keywords: > > > >Dear Computer Garage, > > > >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a > >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure > >why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku > >band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? if > >so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out. Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From univac at earthlink.net Thu Feb 1 23:29:08 2001 From: univac at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: AppleTalk On NeXT Cube Message-ID: I just got my NeXT Cube (Yeah!!!). It's running NeXTStep 3.3, and I am trying to connect it to my AppleTalk network, via LocalTalk or Ethernet. Could anyone help me? Thanks, Owen From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Feb 1 23:49:29 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: OT: "Put Down Engineers" Week (long and WAY OT) References: <000d01c08caa$6ad13b80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <01020200483400.30586@kronos> Message-ID: <3A7A4A65.CECB16C5@eoni.com> Continuing on an off-topic theme, my absolute favorite commentary on Engineering: Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design Engineering is done with numbers. Analysis without numbers is, at best, only an opinion. To design a spacecraft right takes a infinite amount of effort. This is why it's a good idea to design them to operate when some things are wrong. Design is an iterative process. The necessary number of iterations is one more than the number you have currently done. This is true at any point in time. Your best efforts will inevitably wind up being useless in the final design. Learn to live with the disappointment. (Miller's Law) Three points determine a curve. (Mar's Law) Everything is linear if plotted log-log with a fat magic marker. At the start of any design effort, the person who most wants to be team leader is least likely to be capable of it. In nature, the optimum is almost always in the middle somewhere. Distrust assertions that the optimum is at an extreme point. Not having all the information you need is never a satisfactory excuse for not starting the analysis. When in doubt, estimate. In an emergency, guess. But be sure to go back and clean up the mess when the real numbers come along. Sometimes, the fastest way to get to the end is to throw everything out and start over. There is never a single right solution. There are aways multiple wrong ones, though. Design is based on requirements. There's no justification for designing something one bit "better" than the requirements dictate. "Better" is the enemy of "good" The ability to improve a design occurs primarily at the interfaces. This is also the prime location for screwing it up. The previous people who did a similar analysis did not have a direct pipeline to the wisdom of the ages. There is,therefore, no reason to believe their analysis over yours. There is especially no reason to present their analysis as yours. The fact that an analysis appears in print has no relationship to the likelihood of its being correct. Past experience is excellent for providing a reality check. Too much reality can doom an otherwise worthwhile design, though. The odds are greatly against you being immensely smarter than everyone else in the field. If your analysis says your terminal velocity is twice the speed of light, the chances are better that you've screwed up than that you've invented warp drive. A bad design with a good presentation is doomed eventually. A good design with a bad presentation is doomed immediately. (Larrabee's Law) Half of everything you hear in a classroom is crap. Education is figuring out which half is which. When in doubt, document. (Documentation requirements will reach a maximum shortly after the termination of a project.) The schedule you develop will seem like a complete work of fiction up until the moment your customer fires you for not meeting it. Its called a "Work Breakdown Structure" because the Work remaining will grow until you have a Breakdown, unless you enforce some Structure on it. Space is a completely unforgiving environment. If you screw up the engineering, SOMEBODY DIES! From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 2 00:01:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: AppleTalk On NeXT Cube In-Reply-To: from "Owen Robertson" at Feb 01, 2001 11:29:08 PM Message-ID: <200102020601.WAA01697@shell1.aracnet.com> > I just got my NeXT Cube (Yeah!!!). It's running NeXTStep 3.3, and I am > trying to connect it to my AppleTalk network, via LocalTalk or Ethernet. > Could anyone help me? > > Thanks, > Owen Look into CAP. That's how I got a x86 Box running OPENSTEP V4.2 talking Appletalk. Zane From jate at uwasa.fi Fri Feb 2 00:46:28 2001 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: AppleTalk On NeXT Cube In-Reply-To: ; from univac@earthlink.net on Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:29:08PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20010202084628.A925@NTT-F4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:29:08PM -0600, Owen Robertson wrote: > I just got my NeXT Cube (Yeah!!!). It's running NeXTStep 3.3, and I am > trying to connect it to my AppleTalk network, via LocalTalk or Ethernet. > Could anyone help me? > Congrats! NeXT hardware with 3.3 is probably one of the nicest combos I've used. Just stunning. Anyway to answer your question, check out CAPer by Frank Siegert: http://www.this.net/~frank/next_cap.html You might want to check out his other pages as well and Timothy Luomas pages at: http://www.peak.org/~luomat Do you have the developer CD ? -- jht From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Feb 2 02:01:12 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: Re: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke (Sellam Ismail) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010201194534.01b3e2d0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <14970.26952.77201.871117@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 1, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed > computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them. ...after all, everybody knows "old" means "incapable of performing useful work"! *poke poke* -Dave McGuire From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 04:38:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: <3A7A2EC3.9D9106B9@rain.org> References: <20010202033302Z433930-2594+565@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> <3A7A2EC3.9D9106B9@rain.org> Message-ID: > > Where did you get this from?? Wayne Green was never involved >> with Byte. Kilobaud (actually the ham magaize) and Byte were > >Wayne Green was involved with Byte Magazine at the beginning although I >don't know for how long. His name was listed IIRC the publisher on at least >the first issue of Byte. I've got issues # 3 (Nov '75) and #4 (Dec '75) here in front of me and he is listed as Publisher under 'Byte Staff' in both of them. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Fri Feb 2 07:36:22 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... References: Message-ID: <000c01c08d1d$220fc240$0264640a@mediaone.net> Do you remember if it was coupled with a PF-10 floppy disk drive? I got mine at the same time but I don't know if it was part of the original CNC package. The PF is not full of metal burrs like the HC-41. Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: Re: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > I got today an EPSON HX-40. it looks exactly like the HC-41 that I've > > been wondering about. It seems like the hc-41 is a OEM'd version of > > the HX-40 with a different keyboard. The HC-41 I have was used to > > control a CNC machine of some sort. > > The only time I've ever seen an HC-41 was as the contoller for a CNC > lathe. I asked the proprietor of the surplus shop if I could buy the > HC-41 separately, and he said sure, buy it for $(whatever the price of the > lathe was) and I could get a free lathe with it. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Fri Feb 2 05:59:14 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: fw: classic answering machines Message-ID: <01Feb2.115918gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Hi folks, The following is a message from Julian Richardson () - he'd post it himself but for some reason the list is bouncing his messages...... ------------------------------------- -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From agraham at ccat.co.uk Fri Feb 2 06:01:09 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: fw: classic answering machines Message-ID: <01Feb2.120118gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Hi folks, (2nd go - this time I won't press whatever I pressed last time > :) > > The following is a message from Julian Richardson > (JRichardson@softwright.co.uk) - he'd post it himself but for some reason > the list is bouncing his messages......any replies to him please. > > > > > ------------------------------------- subject: Any classic telecoms fanatics on the list? Not quite computing, but it hits the ten-year mark. Just think of it as a big tape drive ;) I've got an old reel-to-reel answering machine made by Ansafone which I'm trying to locate more information on (web searches turn up nothing useful and there don't seem to be any "classic" telecoms groups which I can find - if someone knows of one, let me know) I did come across a uk.telecom newsgroup which turned up one person who'd heard of the machine - he was quite helpful with connector info. Apparently the phone socket on the back of the machine (a big 6-pin round socket) is known as a "96a" type jack. It's the pin-outs for this which I'm really after... (plan is to try to hook this thing up to the phone network if I can; the phone system hasn't changed much - outwardly anyway - in years so hopefully it's still possible, providing our exchange still supports pulse as well as tone dialling) cheers, Jules ------------------------ > -- > Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP > C CAT Limited > Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) > (home) > (The Online Computer Museum) "Ready" - a MTX500, yesterday. From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Feb 2 06:17:35 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Magazines References: <20010202033302Z433930-2594+565@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> <3A7A2EC3.9D9106B9@rain.org> Message-ID: <006d01c08d12$23a02740$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I've worked for both BYTE and Wayne, and Wayne was the original publisher of BYTE. He will tell you he founded it, but the real story is a bit murkier. After years of claiming to have been the sole founder of BYTE and slamming his ex-wife, Virginia Londoner, for taking the magazine away from him in print, Wayne was sued by Virginia for slander. The key witness in the case was Carl Helmers, the first editor of BYTE and former publisher of the ECS Journal. When asked whether Wayne or Virginia started the magazine, he replied, "Well, actually *I* started BYTE." The upshot: The judge ruled that neither Wayne nor Virginia could claim to be sole founders of BYTE; I don't believe there was any cash settlement, but I could be wrong. Carl, BTW, now publishes ID Systems and Desktop Engineering magazines. He still uses Robert Tinney, the artist who did a lot of the great early BYTE covers, from time to time. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Magazines > > > Mark Green wrote: > > > > > Where the hell were you guys at the time??????? > > > > > > > > > Kilobaud did not become Byte, nor vice-versa. Wayne Green started > > > Kilobaud after his ex got Byte in a divorce settlement. > > > > Where did you get this from?? Wayne Green was never involved > > with Byte. Kilobaud (actually the ham magaize) and Byte were > > Wayne Green was involved with Byte Magazine at the beginning although I > don't know for how long. His name was listed IIRC the publisher on at least > the first issue of Byte. > From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Feb 2 06:51:24 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: fw: classic answering machines In-Reply-To: <01Feb2.120118gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:01:09 +0000 Adrian Graham wrote: > I've got an old reel-to-reel answering machine made by Ansafone which I'm > trying to locate more information on (web searches turn up nothing useful > and there don't seem to be any "classic" telecoms groups which I can find - > if someone knows of one, let me know) There is a UK Telecom Heritage Group -- they rescue and fix up old telephone exchanges. Have a look at: http://www.light-straw.co.uk/ "Light Straw" is the colour of the yellow paint on old GPO telephone gear! I could point you to my own "Old Sad Things" page of phones: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/phone.htm My Ericofon has a similar 1/4inch jack plug on it. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Feb 2 07:12:01 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: [SunRescue] PDP 11/34 in Twin Cities Message-ID: Here's a note that I spotted on the Sun Rescue mailing list: --- Begin Forwarded Message --- Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:47:07 -0600 From: Steve Hatle Subject: [SunRescue] PDP 11/34 in Twin Cities Sender: rescue-admin@sunhelp.org To: rescue@sunhelp.org Reply-To: rescue@sunhelp.org Message-ID: <000001c08cba$0d1883d0$3201a8c0@thor> All who are interested in DEC, The local Lockheed/Unisys surplus store has a PDP 11/34 available. It's part of a "Dicomed" system that was apparently used to create microfiche film/prints- there's a bunch of stuff like cameras, etc that are with it. I don't know much about this vintage of DEC, but there's an 11/34, 3 DEC disk packs (19" by approx 12") a DecWriter, a 9 track tape drive and all the film crap, housed in approx 3-4 5 foot racks. Apparently it was all in working order when it was pulled- they outsourced the film biz. The guy at the warehouse knows nothing about it beyond that. When I asked him what he wanted for it, he just said it would go "cheap". I would guess a couple hundred bucks would get you the whole shootin' match. The more you take, I'm sure the cheaper it would get. If anyone wants more info, let me know, and I can pass on contact info. Steve shatle@vue.com _______________________________________________ Rescue maillist - Rescue@sunhelp.org http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue --- End Forwarded Message --- -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Feb 2 08:13:34 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010202141334.23759.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote: > > > This guy could use some help, and while I've got a similar machine in the > > collection, I've got *zip* information on so probably can't be of much > help. > > > > Anyone else give him (and the space program) a hand? > > > > -jim > > > > >From: "King, Gary E" > > >Dear Computer Garage, > > > > > >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a > > >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up... I'm not familiar with this name. Is this some sort of dressed-up DEC LSI-11/2 or is it something entirely different? > Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed > computer? Because the shuttle was designed in the 1970s. Because aerospace engineers are interested in consistent results, not endless life-safety tests. Because if it ain't broke, don't fix it (except now, it's broke ;-) > Anyway, I may be able to help them. Good for you. I wish I could. -ethan __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Feb 2 08:27:49 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > >There are *updates* to 7.5 (like 7.5.1, etc) that are freely > >available from Apple's sites, but I've never seen 7.5 itself > >freely available for download. > > I only have a direct link to the Swedish version of 7.5.3, but there are a lot > of English versions. Let me have a look. > Hmm, here is a truncated link to version 7.0.1: > ftp://ftp.apple.com ... > /System/Older_System/System_7.0.x/System_7.0.1.smi.bin > Ah yes, here is 7.5.3: > http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/artnum/n11346 > > It's just a matter of looking around, or perhaps reading > Pickle's classic Mac > FAQ. Try to have a look at http://www.lowendmac.com/. I think you're missing my point. System 7.5 was a retail-boxed version of MacOS, as was System 7.1, and NEITHER of them are available for free download. The last version of MacOS that was available for free download was OS 7.0.1. Everything else that's available is an UPDATE, and CAN NOT be used for a fresh install. You can't, for example, install System 7.5.3 on a Macintosh UNLESS it already has 7.5 or 7.5.1. Respectfully, -doug quebbeman From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Feb 2 08:32:06 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD7@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a > > >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure > > >why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku > > >band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? if > > >so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out. > > Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed > computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them. Because most fiscal conservatives don't see the point of a space program. Regards, -dq From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Feb 2 09:19:00 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Goodies Available Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010202071900.00972da0@192.168.42.129> More stuff found while digging through the piles: HP88780 SCSI 9-track front-loading tape drive, with rack slides, DIFFERENTIAL SCSI interface. Tandem-badged, working when pulled out of service. NVRAM got cleared during checkout, so the front panel controls are now HP default instead of the Tandem labeling -- I can include a page from the 88780 manual describing the correct layout. One person can lift it if they're strong (it's slightly heavier than a Cipher F880 front-loader), but it would be -expensive- to ship. Prefer local pickup in Kent, WA, southeast of Seattle. $50.00 takes it. Three SysKonnect dual-port FDDI cards for EISA bus systems. Two are NOS/in their box, one is loose. $10.00 each, $25 for all three. Shippable. Condition: Probably work just fine, but I don't have any FDDI hardware to test them with. More to come as the swap meet draws close. Whatever I don't move here will be taken out to said swap. Remember the date and place: March 10th, Puyallup (Western Washington) Fairgrounds, Puyallup, WA (southeast of Tacoma). Enter through the Gold gate, and get there early! This is WA's biggest electronics/ham swap meet, and we usually see quite a line, people-wise. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Feb 2 09:42:32 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: What is this system? [LONG] References: <87k87aq8z6.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: Looks like a computer controlled industrial dishwasher :) Sorry, it's Friday... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rodrigo Ventura" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:28 PM Subject: What is this system? [LONG] > > Can anyone identify the system in the following picture? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 2 09:51:33 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Feb 2, 1 09:27:49 am" Message-ID: <200102021551.HAA07324@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Everything else that's available is an UPDATE, and CAN NOT > be used for a fresh install. You can't, for example, install > System 7.5.3 on a Macintosh UNLESS it already has 7.5 or 7.5.1. Not true, you can use it for 7.1 systems, *or* download the Network Access disk to bring up a system with *no* System Folder on the HD, and then start the installation. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Jesus at a disco: "Help! I've risen and I can't get down!" ----------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 2 10:36:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010201194534.01b3e2d0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010202113643.13b71cee@mailhost.intellistar.net> I live near KSC and you'd be amazed at the assortment of old computers that they're still using. I get frequent requests for help with HP 98xx computers from them. Last year I picked up a loaded CBM 8032 at a KSC auction that had just been taken out of service. Joe At 07:47 PM 2/1/01 -0800, Jim wrote: >Ok... Just when you've heard everything! > >This guy could use some help, and while I've got a similar machine in the >collection, I've got *zip* information on so probably can't be of much help. > >Anyone else give him (and the space program) a hand? > >-jim > >>From: "King, Gary E" >>To: "'jimw@agora.rdrop.com'" >>Subject: Naked Mini Broke >>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:30:18 -0500 >>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) >>X-Status: >>X-Keywords: >> >>Dear Computer Garage, >> >>I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a >>Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure >>why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku >>band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? if >>so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out. >> >>Gary King > > >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > >The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. >Current web site and email shown above > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 2 10:43:40 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010201194534.01b3e2d0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010202114340.13b72226@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:12 PM 2/1/01 -0800, Sellam with his usual tact wrote: > >Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed >computer? Because it works! Also some of that stuff has to be certified and the certification is a long a costly process. I recently repaired some HP 41 calculators for Air France. I asked them why they were still using them and they said that they had to be certified and that certifying new ones for a two year, $20,000 process! Joe From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Feb 2 10:07:46 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Misc hardware avail Message-ID: <3A7ADB52.C8ADD9EB@arrl.net> Any listmembers interested in the following items which are about to be heaved as part of the annual cleanup at my workplace: (free; pickup only in the Houston area unless otherwise noted) - DEC BA23 enclosure, unpopulated, with RX50; badged MicroPDP11 - T.I. silent 700 mini data terminal w/plug-in cart (works) - VT100 logic boards (6) were spares for our VT100 fleet being scrapped - pickup or you-pay-shipping - I'm still trying to free up a SGI 1400 system (kbd mouse manuals and 19" industrial monitor). This is about the size of a BA123. If anyone is interested in this, let me know, I will try harder. Last years cleanup saw 8 cartons of PDP1145 core mem get heaved (I was on vacation and thought I had them safely stshed out-of-sight) Thats over 200 boards! Still pains me when I think about it. Any other interesting items that surface will be added to list. Email me your wants; shipping for single logic board, $4.20. Thanks. nick oliviero From russ at rbcs.8m.com Fri Feb 2 10:24:44 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 model 55SX with Procom IDE interface Message-ID: A friend of mine paid out $15 for a PS/2 8555, or model 55SX thinking it was PCI interfaces (newby, doesn't know what microchannel is). Anyway I told him that it was microchannel and NOT to put any PCI's in it, which he was smart enough to heed. I looked the unit over and it has a Procom IDE hard drive interface and is a complte main unit. Of course it doesn't have the monitor, keyboard or mouse but is otherwise a complete main unit with hard drive, floppy, token ring card and memory and (of course) has built-in serial, parallel, video, mouse and keyboard ports. I believe it runs a 386SX-16 processor and has a coprocessor socket as well. It uses 72 pin SIMMs as well, has 2mb in it now. Cosmetically it's in really good condition as well. Now that he knows it isn't suitable for his needs he wants to get what he has into it - the $15 (plus shipping of about 18-20 lbs). Anyone out there want a 55SX that you can adapt more than the standard 55SX? I'll be cleaning and testing it this weekend and if there are no firm repsonses by next Friday I'll toss it on eBay to see what it gets. Email me direct at rhblake@bigfoot.com if you have questions or wish to put a firm hold on it for yourself. First come, first served. From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Feb 2 10:33:49 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines References: Message-ID: <121901c08d35$eede40e0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I will if I can find it--stashed in a box somewhere in my basement. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:04 PM Subject: Re: FW: TRS-80 Magazines > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > Well, the last editorial he ever wrote for the IDG publications was pulled > > entirely. He was quite bitter at the time because by then he had become > > associated with the magazines he founded in name only. He sent the same > > editorial to all the magazines, and it managed to insult every class of > > computer user--Commodore, Radio Shack, Apple, etc. I don't recall the > > specifics, but I think I still have a copy somewhere. > > Post it! > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Feb 2 10:42:20 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: AppleTalk On NeXT Cube In-Reply-To: <200102020531.XAA97763@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:29:08 -0600 >From: Owen Robertson >Subject: > >I just got my NeXT Cube (Yeah!!!). It's running NeXTStep 3.3, and I am >trying to connect it to my AppleTalk network, via LocalTalk or Ethernet. >Could anyone help me? > >Thanks, >Owen http://www.this.net/~frank/next_cap.html I've run the older version and the v.10 Beta with no problems, but YMMV. For me it works on my office's net and with just a crossover RJ-45 ethernet cable to my Mac Laptop. I'm also running NS 3.3 on an 040 Cube. - Mark From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Feb 2 10:45:15 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD9@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > Everything else that's available is an UPDATE, and CAN NOT > > be used for a fresh install. You can't, for example, install > > System 7.5.3 on a Macintosh UNLESS it already has 7.5 or 7.5.1. > > Not true, you can use it for 7.1 systems, *or* download the Network Access > disk to bring up a system with *no* System Folder on the HD, and then > start the installation. Since 7.1 was also a commercial release, that's not a surprise, but in that scenario, we're back to having to start with a purchased product and then upgrade it. But I confess I know nothing about this Network Access disk, and find it strange that Apple would let that one slip out the door... Or is this Network Access disk a third-party thing? =dq From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 2 11:20:13 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... In-Reply-To: <000c01c08d1d$220fc240$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: If necessary, Sellam could use his free lathe to manufacture any needed metal burrs for the PF. On the -20 Epsons (and presumably the -40?), the HC-20 was the original Japanese model, and the HX-20 was the model that was downgraded for the US market (ROMs, Keyboard, and case color) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > Do you remember if it was coupled with a PF-10 floppy disk drive? I got mine > at the same time but I don't know if it was part of the original CNC > package. The PF is not full of metal burrs like the HC-41. > Francois > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 8:09 PM > Subject: Re: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... > > > > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > > > I got today an EPSON HX-40. it looks exactly like the HC-41 that I've > > > been wondering about. It seems like the hc-41 is a OEM'd version of > > > the HX-40 with a different keyboard. The HC-41 I have was used to > > > control a CNC machine of some sort. > > > > The only time I've ever seen an HC-41 was as the contoller for a CNC > > lathe. I asked the proprietor of the surplus shop if I could buy the > > HC-41 separately, and he said sure, buy it for $(whatever the price of the > > lathe was) and I could get a free lathe with it. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 2 11:25:05 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: OT: fw: classic answering machines In-Reply-To: <01Feb2.120118gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: Does anyone want "classic" retail phone crap?? reel-to-reel Phonemates acoustic coupled answering machine (lifts hook when hearing loud noise) mechanical (light and photocell) speed dialer related hardware -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > subject: Any classic telecoms fanatics on the list? > > Not quite computing, but it hits the ten-year mark. Just think of it as a > big tape drive ;) > > I've got an old reel-to-reel answering machine made by Ansafone which I'm > trying to locate more information on (web searches turn up nothing useful From dan.kuse at lmco.com Fri Feb 2 12:25:23 2001 From: dan.kuse at lmco.com (Kuse, Dan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Shugart SA850/851 8" floppy drive Message-ID: <834E9C6BE390D411BED300508BF900E665E643@emss04m15.ems.lmco.com> We have a collection of test programs stored on 8" floppies which were part of a Fairchild F70 PCB tester. We're trying to convert them to be read by a PC. A field Eng. from Schumberger (who took over the Fairchild tester line) tells me the 8" drive was a Shugart SA850/851. We need to know the format information. We have a couple of old 8" drives, but can't seem to make out the format. I noticed in one of the emails that you mentioned a SA850 manual. Does the manual contain information regarding the disk format? If so, is there anyway we could get a copy of the manual? Any information you could give would appreciated. Thanks Dan Kuse Lockheed Martin NE & SS - Mitchel Field Mail Station C3-002 55 Charles Lindbergh Blvd. Uniondale, NY 11553 Voice: 516-228-2809 Fax: 516-228-3040 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 2 12:47:50 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Shugart SA850/851 8" floppy drive In-Reply-To: <834E9C6BE390D411BED300508BF900E665E643@emss04m15.ems.lmco.com> from "Kuse, Dan" at Feb 2, 1 01:25:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1823 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010202/afbbeb98/attachment.ksh From red at bears.org Fri Feb 2 13:08:12 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > I think you're missing my point. > > System 7.5 was a retail-boxed version of MacOS, as was > System 7.1, and NEITHER of them are available for free > download. Two years ago, you would've been correct. Apple has released 7.5, for free download, to their ftp site. This is the same FTP site that has all their updates. FWIW: ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/US/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/ System 7.5.3 through Update 2. 19 disks. No netimage. Full install. Though I don't see 7.1 here. I was pretty sure it used to be available, but I could be mistaken. ok r. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Feb 2 15:11:47 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DDC@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > I think you're missing my point. > > > > System 7.5 was a retail-boxed version of MacOS, as was > > System 7.1, and NEITHER of them are available for free > > download. > > Two years ago, you would've been correct. Apple has released 7.5, for free > download, to their ftp site. This is the same FTP site that has all their > updates. Well, well, well... the first thing that his Steveness has done that I can agree with. That's what I get for losing interest two years ago... -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 2 15:38:13 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Feb 2, 1 02:08:12 pm" Message-ID: <200102022138.NAA12068@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Though I don't see 7.1 here. I was pretty sure it used to be available, > but I could be mistaken. Most unfortunately, no. Apple doesn't own all the code in 7.1 which is apparently the official line on why you still have to buy it. I picked mine up for next to nothing at a swap meet. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Two rules for ultimate life satisfaction: 1) Don't tell people everything. - From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 2 15:40:36 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD9@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Feb 2, 1 11:45:15 am" Message-ID: <200102022140.NAA07982@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > But I confess I know nothing about this Network Access disk, > and find it strange that Apple would let that one slip out > the door... > Or is this Network Access disk a third-party thing? No, it's on the level, and it's Apple. Basically a Disk Tools disk without the disk tools, giving you minimum connectivity to mount an AppleShare server and install from there. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: Teacher Strikes Idle Kids ----------------------------------- From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Feb 2 16:14:41 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board Message-ID: <3A7B3151.988DCD95@idirect.com> I have an interesting question. Can this board be used as additional ram in a PDP-11? If so, how might it be done? I have a Qbus Memory board that must be from a uVAX II - M7609-AP with 288 (I hope I counted correctly) memory chips 4256L-15 8726255 A 21-22422-42 R with the standard male 50 pin header at the top to be connected to a uVAX CPU. If my arithmetic is normal, does this make it an 8 MByte memory? Now, I am no hardware expect, in fact about all I can do with a soldering iron is to plug it in and unplug it - before it gets too hot and I burn something. But, is there any way that a regular PDP-11/73 could see this memory and use it in some manner? Otherwise... I don't expect that anyone will want it, but if so, can I swap it for a regular PDP-11 Qbus memory of 4 MBytes? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 16:30:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <200102022138.NAA12068@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200102022138.NAA12068@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >Most unfortunately, no. Apple doesn't own all the code in 7.1 which is >apparently the official line on why you still have to buy it. I picked mine >up for next to nothing at a swap meet. I think they had 7.0.1 online for a while, as I downloaded it so I could use with the Mac emulation on my Amiga. The original disks of 7.1 I have were intended for the Centris 610 series machines but I've taken to gathering up the system enabler for any machine it doesn't support automatically, such as my Color Classic and Quadra 605. System 7.5.3 is definately online though, as I downloaded the many disks a while ago and have used it for fresh installs on a Color Classic, Quadra 605, Performa 466 and PM 6100. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 2 16:38:18 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? Message-ID: How many people on this board are in the military? I already know that Jeff Helliage is a (no offense!) "Box Kicker" Second Class, but are there any others? ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82 ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 2 16:38:46 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: <3A7B3151.988DCD95@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Feb 02, 2001 05:14:41 PM Message-ID: <200102022238.OAA19385@shell1.aracnet.com> > But, is there any way that a regular PDP-11/73 could see this memory > and use it in some manner? I really doubt it. It would probably be easier to build up a memory board from scratch. Unless I'm mistaken the MicroVAX II doesn't even talk to the Q-Bus to access this board, it's all done via the ribbon cable that connects the RAM to the CPU. OTOH, if I'm wrong, I wouldn't mind knowing about it, I've got at least a couple of these boards around myself. > Otherwise... > > I don't expect that anyone will want it, but if so, can I swap it for a regular > PDP-11 Qbus memory of 4 MBytes? Good luck :^) Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Feb 2 17:20:44 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: uVAX II Memory Board (Jerome Fine) References: <3A7B3151.988DCD95@idirect.com> Message-ID: <14971.16588.354931.501154@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 2, Jerome Fine wrote: > I have an interesting question. Can this board be used as additional ram > in a PDP-11? If so, how might it be done? > > I have a Qbus Memory board that must be from a uVAX II - M7609-AP > with 288 (I hope I counted correctly) memory chips > 4256L-15 8726255 > A 21-22422-42 R > with the standard male 50 pin header at the top to be connected to a uVAX > CPU. > > If my arithmetic is normal, does this make it an 8 MByte memory? It's an 8mb board, yes. And no, it won't work on a pdp11...the PMI (Private Memory Interconnect) connector at the top of the board is how it talks to the MicroVAX-II CPU, while [most] qbus pdp11 systems talk to their memory via Qbus. > I don't expect that anyone will want it, but if so, can I swap it for a regular > PDP-11 Qbus memory of 4 MBytes? I doubt you'll have much luck with this idea...MicroVAX-II memory boards are all over the place, while 4mb Qbus pdp11 memory bards are getting hard to find. Sorry if I busted your bubble... -Dave McGuire From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 2 16:12:24 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: <14970.26952.77201.871117@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed > > computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them. > > ...after all, everybody knows "old" means "incapable of performing > useful work"! > > *poke poke* Yeah, but in aerospace? Wasn't the shuttle's main computer just finally upgraded a couple years ago to something more modern? If it ain't broke, do not attempt repairs, indeed. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 2 16:13:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... In-Reply-To: <000c01c08d1d$220fc240$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > Do you remember if it was coupled with a PF-10 floppy disk drive? I got mine > at the same time but I don't know if it was part of the original CNC > package. The PF is not full of metal burrs like the HC-41. I don't think it did. It was probably 3 years ago that I saw it. That surplus store has since gone out of business (couldn't maintain their Silicon Valley address with their over-priced crap). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 2 16:16:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: fw: classic answering machines In-Reply-To: <01Feb2.120118gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Adrian Graham wrote: > Not quite computing, but it hits the ten-year mark. Just think of it as a > big tape drive ;) > > I've got an old reel-to-reel answering machine made by Ansafone which I'm > trying to locate more information on (web searches turn up nothing useful > and there don't seem to be any "classic" telecoms groups which I can find - > if someone knows of one, let me know) > > I did come across a uk.telecom newsgroup which turned up one person who'd > heard of the machine - he was quite helpful with connector info. Apparently > the phone socket on the back of the machine (a big 6-pin round socket) is > known as a "96a" type jack. It's the pin-outs for this which I'm really > after... Try The Vintage Telephone Equipment Museum: http://www.scn.org/tech/telmuseum/index.html Also, on the Usenet, comp.dcom.telecom and comp.dcom.telecom.tech. Lots of knowledgeable old phone guys hang out there. > (plan is to try to hook this thing up to the phone network if I can; the > phone system hasn't changed much - outwardly anyway - in years so hopefully > it's still possible, providing our exchange still supports pulse as well as > tone dialling) I hope the above links will be useful to you since I think you may be in the UK? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 17:31:28 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >How many people on this board are in the military? I already know >that Jeff Helliage is a (no offense!) "Box Kicker" Second Class, but >are there any others? At the moment, I have a bit of an identity crisis going on. I'm Navy working on an Air Force base and am supposed to be working supply but currently work for the IS Dept. because they needed another person, especially one with Mac skills. Just 3 more years and I can 'retire' from Navy life and move on! I know i've seen at least one other .MIL address post to this list at some point though. Jeff P.S. what's your background since you obviously know something about Navy rates? -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 2 12:31:33 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010202233341.LRYA6682.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:08:12 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: "'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'" > Subject: RE: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Two years ago, you would've been correct. Apple has released 7.5, for free > download, to their ftp site. This is the same FTP site that has all their > updates. > > FWIW: > > ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/US/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/ > > System 7.5.3 through Update 2. 19 disks. No netimage. Full install. Let say: Mac HD w/o OS and have superdrives or pre-7.1 on it, but have working peecees. What is the method to get them onto disks? Cheers, Wizard From red at bears.org Fri Feb 2 17:42:47 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:30 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <20010202233341.LRYA6682.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Mac HD w/o OS and have superdrives or pre-7.1 on it, but have working > peecees. What is the method to get them onto disks? There's a Win32 utility out there called 'WinImage' which I have used before to write MacOS Disk Copy disk images (might not work with the Disk Copy 6.x images.. it's been a while, though, so anything's possible) using a Windows PC. It works well, though ISTR the utility being nagware. If you can't find it on the 'net anywhere, contact me off list and I think I have an older copy archived away somewhere that I can send you. ok r. From russ at rbcs.8m.com Fri Feb 2 17:44:53 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm a retired nuclear missile technician from the USAF, retired as an E6 in 95 if that counts. Used all sorts of industrial computers to include the HP 1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Vohs Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 4:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: OT question: Military collectors? How many people on this board are in the military? I already know that Jeff Helliage is a (no offense!) "Box Kicker" Second Class, but are there any others? ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82 ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 2 16:43:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: <006d01c08d12$23a02740$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: This may be a good time to ask while we're on the subject of old magazines: I'm looking for Datamation magazines. I am willing to trade really cool stuff (or $$$) for complete runs. Please let me know if you've got any you wouldn't mind letting go and what you're looking for in return. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 2 16:44:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: <006d01c08d12$23a02740$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > Carl, BTW, now publishes ID Systems and Desktop Engineering magazines. > He still uses Robert Tinney, the artist who did a lot of the great > early BYTE covers, from time to time. Michael, might you know how to contact Mr. Tinney? He would make a great speaker for the VCF. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 2 17:54:02 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board Message-ID: <00b001c08d73$a64fffb0$87789a8d@ajp166> >I have an interesting question. Can this board be used as additional ram >in a PDP-11? If so, how might it be done? > >I have a Qbus Memory board that must be from a uVAX II - M7609-AP >with 288 (I hope I counted correctly) memory chips >4256L-15 8726255 A 21-22422-42 R with the >a standard male 50 pin header at the top to be connected to a uVAX >CPU. >If my arithmetic is normal, does this make it an 8 MByte memory? It's a microvax memory most likely. PDP-11 can address a maximum of 4mb. >But, is there any way that a regular PDP-11/73 could see this memory >and use it in some manner? No, it's not compatable. >I don't expect that anyone will want it, but if so, can I swap it for a regular >PDP-11 Qbus memory of 4 MBytes? That should be possible but I think the largest common memory board for PDP-11 Q-bus is 1MB. Allison From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 2 16:47:41 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: <20010202141334.23759.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a > > > >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up... > > I'm not familiar with this name. Is this some sort of dressed-up DEC > LSI-11/2 or is it something entirely different? Computer Automation made a series of minis in the 70s. I have a couple Alpha 16's and the Naked Mini, which was sold as a board in some cases. Gary, the writer of the original message, is checking to see how much compatibility there is between the Alpha 16 and the LSI. The LSI, if I know my Computer Automation history, was the model produced after the Alpha 16, in the late 70s. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Fri Feb 2 17:56:08 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <20010202233341.LRYA6682.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On 02-Feb-2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: >> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:08:12 -0500 (EST) >> From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" >> To: "'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'" >> >> Subject: RE: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs >> Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >> On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >> Two years ago, you would've been correct. Apple has released 7.5, for >> free >> download, to their ftp site. This is the same FTP site that has all >> their >> updates. >> >> FWIW: >> >> ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/US/Macinto >> sh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/ >> >> System 7.5.3 through Update 2. 19 disks. No netimage. Full install. > > Let say: > > Mac HD w/o OS and have superdrives or pre-7.1 on it, but have working > peecees. What is the method to get them onto disks? Very roughly : - AppleShare support on the peecee (Linux setup was fairly good support) - Create an AppleShare on peecee, put all the 7.5.3 self-mounting disks on it - Boot Mac from the Network Access disk - Set up TCP/IP and AppleTalk over IP on Mac - Mount the AppleShare on peecee that has the disks on mac - Double click on first file. (This should mount all the files) - Run the installer. Watch blinken lights on hub. Go for a coffee :) I'm sure someone on the list will correct me, because that's how I'm planning on doing it. -Philip From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 2 13:18:06 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: References: <20010202233341.LRYA6682.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010203002013.ODKL21723.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > Let say: > > > > Mac HD w/o OS and have superdrives or pre-7.1 on it, but have working > > peecees. What is the method to get them onto disks? > > Very roughly : > - AppleShare support on the peecee (Linux setup was fairly good support) > - Create an AppleShare on peecee, put all the 7.5.3 self-mounting disks on > it > - Boot Mac from the Network Access disk > - Set up TCP/IP and AppleTalk over IP on Mac > - Mount the AppleShare on peecee that has the disks on mac > - Double click on first file. (This should mount all the files) > - Run the installer. Watch blinken lights on hub. Go for a coffee :) > > I'm sure someone on the list will correct me, because that's how I'm > planning on doing it. > > -Philip Oh, I forgot to say: The available options I could install OS is appletalk (serial) or sneakernet (disks). The NIC is not in either of my LCIII and C610. Cheers, Wizard From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 2 18:25:17 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Feb 02, 2001 06:31:28 PM Message-ID: <200102030025.QAA23029@shell1.aracnet.com> > At the moment, I have a bit of an identity crisis going on. > I'm Navy working on an Air Force base and am supposed to be working > supply but currently work for the IS Dept. because they needed > another person, especially one with Mac skills. Just 3 more years > and I can 'retire' from Navy life and move on! I know i've seen at > least one other .MIL address post to this list at some point though. > > Jeff Sounds like you've got the good life at the moment! Don't you just love how the Navy did away with the DP rating? Do any of them )*#$ @$(&% RM's have a clue about computers (not counting the ex-Data Processing Tech's)? > P.S. what's your background since you obviously know something about > Navy rates? How about EM3(SW) at the end of 4 years, and DP1(SW) at the end of 10 years. Got out in late '96 when they decided to make me a (*&^* @)($& Radioman! BTW, since when is a SH (which I'm assuming is what you are) called something as polite as a "Box Kicker"? Now I know the Navy's gotten to blasted PC! For an on-topic note, you ever get to play with SNAP II (the Harris Mini)? When I was an EM3 I was one of the few people on the ship that knew how it worked, and was able to do stuff like backups and reboot it after it crashed (I also had OS level access). Very cool system. SNAP I on the other hand (Honeywell DPS-6's running GCOS-6) was not what I'd call a cool system. Zane From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Feb 2 18:42:18 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Magazines References: Message-ID: <128801c08d7a$2c989ea0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> No, but I know someone who does. I'll get back to you. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Magazines > On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > Carl, BTW, now publishes ID Systems and Desktop Engineering magazines. > > He still uses Robert Tinney, the artist who did a lot of the great > > early BYTE covers, from time to time. > > Michael, might you know how to contact Mr. Tinney? He would make a great > speaker for the VCF. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Fri Feb 2 18:44:02 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <20010203002013.ODKL21723.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On 02-Feb-2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Oh, I forgot to say: The available options I could install OS is > appletalk (serial) or sneakernet (disks). > > The NIC is not in either of my LCIII and C610. Network Access disk claims to support AppleTalk. It has to be on the printer port... but i can't find the URL that had that info. http://www.headgap.com/~macstar/bootdisc1.html http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/artnum/n10695 -Philip From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 18:55:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? In-Reply-To: <200102030025.QAA23029@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200102030025.QAA23029@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Sounds like you've got the good life at the moment! Don't you just love how >the Navy did away with the DP rating? Do any of them )*#$ @$(&% RM's have a >clue about computers (not counting the ex-Data Processing Tech's)? Actually, I've spent most of my 17 years in working on the IS side of things, including doing a few custom programs. You don't want to hear my view of the DP/RM fiasco...let's just say I thought it was stupid from the start. Too bad there's an even bigger fiasco looming on the horizon, but that's best left off-list. >BTW, since when is a SH (which I'm assuming is what you are) called >something as polite as a "Box Kicker"? Now I know the Navy's gotten to >blasted PC! He had the right idea...i'm an SK not an SH. The fact i've spent most of my time in the service doing some form of IS work vice my normal job is one of the reasons I'm still an SK2! >For an on-topic note, you ever get to play with SNAP II (the Harris Mini)? >When I was an EM3 I was one of the few people on the ship that knew how it >worked, and was able to do stuff like backups and reboot it after it crashed >(I also had OS level access). Very cool system. SNAP I on the other hand >(Honeywell DPS-6's running GCOS-6) was not what I'd call a cool system. Yes, have used both the Harris mini of SNAP-II and the Honeywell DPS-6 that used to be SUADPS. Had a lot more contact with SNAP-II though as far as direct interaction at the system itself. We had an EMCS that was our SNAP-II and 3M coordinator and he really knew his stuff. He'd routinely do direct downlods of the 3M data to one of the Z-248's and inport it into Dbase-II/III/IV to do what he wanted with it. We had a couple of ET's that did the backups and actual hardware repairs, though the EMCS generally did the tape updates. Our Harris used to destroy disk packs quite often. The thing I liked about the DPS-6 was the version of the classic 'Star Trek' game that was installed with it! Too bad the A/C on the ships was rarely up to keeping the DPS-6 cool enough and it tended to crash quite a lot. SUADPS was later ported to HP Unix and run from a micro and then phased out somewhat as of last year, though there may still be some ships using it. I applogize to all of those not familiar with the USN terminology that had to sit through that Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Feb 2 19:11:58 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Magazines References: Message-ID: <12c001c08d7e$51b53640$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Just remembered he has a Web site. It's at: http://www.tinney.net/. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Magazines > On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > Carl, BTW, now publishes ID Systems and Desktop Engineering magazines. > > He still uses Robert Tinney, the artist who did a lot of the great > > early BYTE covers, from time to time. > > Michael, might you know how to contact Mr. Tinney? He would make a great > speaker for the VCF. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Feb 2 19:21:34 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Umm. My ftp server (Wedding) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010203013233.XUVX3589.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I've been running my AMD k6-3/400 at 450mhz for several months. Recently it has been bombing frequently in really nasty ways. I've unbumped the processor and all is well. In that time I observed a fair amount of ftp activity coinciding with my invitation to download our wedding video. I'm sorry that the logs show many failures but the problem is resolved. The video subsystem is the part that kept breaking which explains why the problem was difficult to track down..... During this time, the system would sustain high-output downloads nicely, but slower, variable geometry downloads from folks with modems would tax the system and cause a thermal overload. After testing I discovered that any demanding task would reproduce this failure. Please FTP to 24.15.74.214 and try again with our thanks and my personal assurance that this problem is not likely to recur. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Fri Feb 2 19:49:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Shugart SA850/851 8" floppy drive References: Message-ID: <002201c08d83$8c7cdf80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Hey, Tony! I've got lots of Shugart doc's, but the 85x are conspicuously missing. If you have a scan of this document set, I'd certainly like to add it to my collection. This stuff, once scanned and cleaned up, will be put on a web site, ostensibly databooks.org, that's still being set up. Can you help out here? regards, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: Re: Shugart SA850/851 8" floppy drive > > > > We have a collection of test programs stored on 8" floppies which were part > > of a Fairchild F70 > > PCB tester. We're trying to convert them to be read by a PC. > > A field Eng. from Schumberger (who took over the Fairchild tester > > line) tells me the > > 8" drive was a Shugart SA850/851. > > Well, I have the SA850 service manual somewhere. I could probably even > find it... > > > We need to know the format information. We have a couple of old 8" > > drives, but can't seem to make out the format. I noticed in one of the > > But it's not going to help with the format information. 8" disk drives, > like virtually all floppy drvies have a 'raw' (low level) interface. It's > up to the _controller_ to determine the format. > > The disks could be soft-sectored (one hole for the index sensor) or hard > sectored (one hole for the start of each track, evenly spaced, and one > hole midway between 2 of them for the index). > > The data could be recorded using FM encoding ('single density'), MFM > encoding ('double density') or a number of other less widely-used methods > (MMFM, GCR, etc). > > Even when you've worked out those details, you still have to find the > number of sectors/track, the size of each sector, and other similar > information. If the controller was custom (as opposed to using one of the > standard disk controller chips) then the sector headers could be just > about anything. Heck, I've seen machines using FM encoding for the > headers and MFM encoding for the data... > > And after that you've only managed to read raw sectors. You then have to > work out what sectors make up a given file -- things like the directory > format (assuming there is a directory), etc. > > The best place to start looking would be in the service manual/schematics > for the instrument itself. You should be able to work out what the very > > -tony > > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 2 18:52:38 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: FYI: Byte #1-6 on Amazon Auctions Message-ID: Someone is auctioning Byte #1-6 on Amazon's Auctions: http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/glance-browse/Y03X2790387X5434809/ix=auction&rank=%2Dbfp&fqp=org-unit-id%014-6%02site-org-unit-id%014%02browse%01296262%02status%01open%02enddate%010a-&nsp=template%01browse-branch&sz=50&pg=1/1/51/qid=981165588/ABB=1-1/102-5005244-2377727 Minimum bid is $40 (decent value) or buy it now for $125 (oi!) FYI Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Feb 2 20:34:23 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Umm. My ftp server (Wedding) Message-ID: <7e.10642b13.27acc82f@aol.com> In a message dated 2/2/01 8:40:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, THETechnoid@home.com writes: << Please FTP to 24.15.74.214 and try again with our thanks and my personal assurance that this problem is not likely to recur. >> i presume there's a classic computer involved somewhere to make this on topic? heh From mwp at acm.org Fri Feb 2 20:26:37 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? References: <200102030025.QAA23029@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <007701c08d88$bbf49190$0200a8c0@zeus> Former ET1(SS) (navigation ET, Poseidon C-3) Six patrols aboard the luxurious USS George Washington Carver, SSBN 656, Gold crew; short period of instructor duty for maintenance courses at the Naval Submarine School in Groton; two years getting an A.S. at Thames Valley State Technical College in Norwich, and two years at FBM Operational Test Support Unit Two (testing the Trident-II navigation subsystem). --Mike Passer From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Feb 2 20:43:59 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board References: <200102022238.OAA19385@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3A7B706F.171CCF7B@idirect.com> >healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > But, is there any way that a regular PDP-11/73 could see this memory > > and use it in some manner? > I really doubt it. It would probably be easier to build up a memory board > from scratch. Unless I'm mistaken the MicroVAX II doesn't even talk to the > Q-Bus to access this board, it's all done via the ribbon cable that connects > the RAM to the CPU. Jerome Fine replies: I assumed that is the case since the uVAX II supports 16 MBytes while the Qbus is only 22 bits which means the maximum is 4 MBytes. I was just hoping (dreaming more like) that it might be possible to use a simple controller to drive the board and use all 8 MBytes as a RAM disk. > OTOH, if I'm wrong, I wouldn't mind knowing about it, I've got at least a > couple of these boards around myself. It would be amazing at that - a uVAX II memory board for a now no longer available new computer (I hear that no more new VAXs are being sold whereas it is still possible to buy a new PDP-11) being converted since there are so many available for use as a RAM disk for the older PDP-11. > > Otherwise... > > I don't expect that anyone will want it, but if so, can I swap it for a regular > > PDP-11 Qbus memory of 4 MBytes? > Good luck :^) Just thought that someone might have an old uVAX I with a 4 MByte memory and I could probably toss in a uVAX II CPU as well. I probably have a better chance of winning a lottery. On a more serious note, just think of what those 8 MByte boards used to cost when DEC first sold them - I guess that was not serious after all. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Feb 2 20:54:14 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board References: <3A7B3151.988DCD95@idirect.com> <14971.16588.354931.501154@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A7B72D6.6A4F7751@idirect.com> >Dave McGuire wrote: > >On February 2, Jerome Fine wrote: > > I have an interesting question. Can this board be used as additional ram > > in a PDP-11? If so, how might it be done? > > I have a Qbus Memory board that must be from a uVAX II - M7609-AP > > with 288 (I hope I counted correctly) memory chips > > 4256L-15 8726255 > > A 21-22422-42 R > > with the standard male 50 pin header at the top to be connected to a uVAX CPU. > > If my arithmetic is normal, does this make it an 8 MByte memory? > It's an 8mb board, yes. And no, it won't work on a pdp11...the PMI > (Private Memory Interconnect) connector at the top of the board is how > it talks to the MicroVAX-II CPU, while [most] qbus pdp11 systems talk > to their memory via Qbus. Jerome Fine replies: I know that it is impossible to just use the uVAX II memory as is. I just thought it might be possible that someone has put together an inexpensive controller. Maybe someone could use the parts from a uVAX II? If I make enough dumb suggestions, possibly one might be feasible. As for the PDP-11 talking to the memory over the Qbus, even the 11/83 does that via the CD interconnect - as far as I know. Whereas the PMI (if that is indeed the correct terminology) for the uVAX II uses a cable over the top, for the 11/83 the use of PMI does not require a cable, just the correct placement of the PMI memory on top of the CPU - on the component side. > > I don't expect that anyone will want it, but if so, can I swap it for a regular > > PDP-11 Qbus memory of 4 MBytes? > I doubt you'll have much luck with this idea...MicroVAX-II memory > boards are all over the place, while 4mb Qbus pdp11 memory bards are > getting hard to find. > Sorry if I busted your bubble... No bubble to burst. Actually, most of the time, I use the PC hardware to run my PDP-11 programs, so the real PDP-11 hardware is now the backup system. In any case, I thought I might dream - no point in not asking. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mbg at world.std.com Fri Feb 2 21:00:27 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board Message-ID: <200102030300.WAA17545@world.std.com> No, it won't show up on the bus. All transactions on that board occur over the cable interconnect. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Feb 2 21:09:51 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board References: <00b001c08d73$a64fffb0$87789a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A7B767F.F279E843@idirect.com> >ajp166 wrote: > >I have an interesting question. Can this board be used as additional ram > >in a PDP-11? If so, how might it be done? > >I have a Qbus Memory board that must be from a uVAX II - M7609-AP > >with 288 (I hope I counted correctly) memory chips > >4256L-15 8726255 A 21-22422-42 R with the > >a standard male 50 pin header at the top to be connected to a uVAX CPU. > >If my arithmetic is normal, does this make it an 8 MByte memory? > It's a microvax memory most likely. PDP-11 can address a maximum of > 4mb. Jerome Fine replies: Yes and YES! > >But, is there any way that a regular PDP-11/73 could see this memory > >and use it in some manner? > No, it's not compatable. Yes!!!!!! I heard some time back that either you or Megan Gentry had converted an old DEC Qbus memory board to be a RAM: disk of some sort. Maybe I was mistaken in that it was just normal memory - above the usual PDP-11 memory and with an address gap - and the PDP-11 did all the extra software to make the memory look like a disk. > >I don't expect that anyone will want it, but if so, can I swap it for a regular > >PDP-11 Qbus memory of 4 MBytes? > That should be possible but I think the largest common memory board > for PDP-11 Q-bus is 1MB. DEC made a MSV11-CA and there were a number of third party 4 MByte memory boards. I remember that Chrislin made a single 4 MByte quad memory board. As for PMI memory, DEC made the MSV11-JD at 1 MByte and the MSV11-JE at 2 Mbyte for the 11/83. I don't seem to remember that DEC made a 4 MByte PMI memory. If SIMMs had been around 10 years sooner, DEC could have put those right on the CPU board. Of course if the Pentium had been around 10 years sooner, maybe DEC would have made a better PDP-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 2 21:00:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <963.434T1500T2405409optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote: >> >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a >> >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure >> >why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku >> >band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? >> >if so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out. >Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed >computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them. What's wrong with old-arsed computer anyway??? BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually used core memory, apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory. Could anyone confirm whether this still holds true? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. When does a system administrator do the first backup? The first day on the job after the system administrator who never did. From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 21:15:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? In-Reply-To: <007701c08d88$bbf49190$0200a8c0@zeus> References: <200102030025.QAA23029@shell1.aracnet.com> <007701c08d88$bbf49190$0200a8c0@zeus> Message-ID: Here's my background, military-wise, for those that don't already know it: Served aboard: USS Sierra (AD-18), Coarl Sea (CV-43), USNS Comfort (TAH-20), USS Kalamazoo (AOR-6), and Enterprise (CVN-65). Also worked out of Bethesda Naval Hospital , Bethesda MD and Special Trials Unit at Patuxent River Naval Air Station (gotta love R&D work!). Currently working for Naval Media Center in Washington D.C. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 21:19:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: <3A7B706F.171CCF7B@idirect.com> References: <200102022238.OAA19385@shell1.aracnet.com> <3A7B706F.171CCF7B@idirect.com> Message-ID: >Jerome Fine replies: > >I assumed that is the case since the uVAX II supports 16 MBytes while the >Qbus is only 22 bits which means the maximum is 4 MBytes. I was Isn't the max memory in a MicroVAX II 13 MB? Mine has 1 MB on the CPU board, an 8 MB board, and a 4 MB board and it is my understanding that this is maxed out. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ss at allegro.com Fri Feb 2 21:19:15 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: FYI: Byte #1-6 on Amazon Auctions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A7B0833.23320.5134FB7@localhost> > http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/glance-browse/Y03X2790387X5434809/ix=auction&rank=%2Dbfp&fqp=org-unit-id%014-6%02site-org-unit-id%014%02browse%01296262%02status%01open%02enddate%010a-&nsp=template%01browse-branch&sz=50&pg=1/1/51/qid=981165588/ABB=1-1/102-5005244-2377727 > > Minimum bid is $40 (decent value) or buy it now for $125 (oi!) "in good condition - intact - not "virgin" but in fantastic shape." Hmm..."good" <> "fantastic shape" :) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 2 21:23:17 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: <3A7B706F.171CCF7B@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Feb 02, 2001 09:43:59 PM Message-ID: <200102030323.TAA27415@shell1.aracnet.com> > It would be amazing at that - a uVAX II memory board for a now no longer > available new computer (I hear that no more new VAXs are being sold whereas > it is still possible to buy a new PDP-11) being converted since there are so > many available for use as a RAM disk for the older PDP-11. Actually you've got me thinking there. Considering that RAM is dirt cheap these days. I'm wondering what it would take to build a RL02 drive that is actually a RAM disk (of course you'd be able to fit several disks on one stick of RAM), and what kind of performance you'd get. Off course I'm not a hardware type, so I don't know how hard that would be. > Just thought that someone might have an old uVAX I with a 4 MByte memory > and I could probably toss in a uVAX II CPU as well. I probably have a better > chance of winning a lottery. Aren't the 4MB MicroVAX I boards the same as a 4MB MicroVAX II board? I've never even seen a MicroVAX I, so I really don't have a clue on this. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 21:37:28 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: FYI: Byte #1-6 on Amazon Auctions In-Reply-To: <3A7B0833.23320.5134FB7@localhost> References: <3A7B0833.23320.5134FB7@localhost> Message-ID: Issues 1-4 are on eBay, currently bid up to $78: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1211407926 Jeff > > >http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/glance-browse/Y03X2790387X5434809/ix=auction&rank=%2Dbfp&fqp=org-unit-id%014-6%02site-org-unit-id%014%02browse%01296262%02status%01open%02enddate%010a-&nsp=template%01browse-branch&sz=50&pg=1/1/51/qid=981165588/ABB=1-1/102-5005244-2377727 >> >> Minimum bid is $40 (decent value) or buy it now for $125 (oi!) > >"in good condition - intact - not "virgin" but in fantastic shape." > >Hmm..."good" <> "fantastic shape" :) > > > >Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com >www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 2 21:45:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Feb 02, 2001 10:19:08 PM Message-ID: <200102030345.TAA27835@shell1.aracnet.com> > Isn't the max memory in a MicroVAX II 13 MB? Mine has 1 MB > on the CPU board, an 8 MB board, and a 4 MB board and it is my > understanding that this is maxed out. The Max is 16MB, that's with two 8MB boards (or a 3rd Party 16MB board, at least I think such a beast was made). When running a 16MB config, the 1MB on the CPU board is ignored. Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Feb 2 21:49:27 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: Re: uVAX II Memory Board (healyzh@aracnet.com) References: <3A7B706F.171CCF7B@idirect.com> <200102030323.TAA27415@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <14971.32711.384732.958362@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 2, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Aren't the 4MB MicroVAX I boards the same as a 4MB MicroVAX II board? I've > never even seen a MicroVAX I, so I really don't have a clue on this. Nope, not even close. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Feb 2 21:50:23 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: Re: uVAX II Memory Board (Jeff Hellige) References: <200102022238.OAA19385@shell1.aracnet.com> <3A7B706F.171CCF7B@idirect.com> Message-ID: <14971.32767.654716.668188@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 2, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Isn't the max memory in a MicroVAX II 13 MB? Mine has 1 MB > on the CPU board, an 8 MB board, and a 4 MB board and it is my > understanding that this is maxed out. No, the MicroVAX-II maxes out at 16mb (two 8mb boards). In that configuration, the 1mb of onboard memory is disabled. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Feb 2 21:52:15 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: Re: uVAX II Memory Board (Jerome Fine) References: <00b001c08d73$a64fffb0$87789a8d@ajp166> <3A7B767F.F279E843@idirect.com> Message-ID: <14971.32879.520907.561025@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 2, Jerome Fine wrote: > course if the Pentium had been around 10 years sooner, maybe DEC > would have made a better PDP-11. Oh good lord. That's a troll for flamage if I've ever read one. A good one though; I almost cut loose on you for it with about ten pages about why this is full of doodoo. ;) -Dave McGuire From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 2 22:34:50 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <306.434T2500T3345829optimus@canit.se> r. 'bear' stricklin skrev: >Though I don't see 7.1 here. I was pretty sure it used to be available, >but I could be mistaken. There are some non-Apple licences in 7.1 which prevents them from releasing that version for free. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Allt ?r under kontroll, och caps lock ?r bredvid. From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 2 22:33:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DD6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <646.434T2550T3336215optimus@canit.se> Douglas Quebbeman skrev: >I think you're missing my point. >System 7.5 was a retail-boxed version of MacOS, as was >System 7.1, and NEITHER of them are available for free >download. >The last version of MacOS that was available for free >download was OS 7.0.1. >Everything else that's available is an UPDATE, and CAN NOT >be used for a fresh install. You can't, for example, install >System 7.5.3 on a Macintosh UNLESS it already has 7.5 or 7.5.1. Bollocks, I've installed one of these fresh, and it's always worked fine on the LowendMac lists. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From univac at earthlink.net Fri Feb 2 23:29:18 2001 From: univac at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: AppleTalk On NeXT Cube In-Reply-To: <20010202084628.A925@NTT-F4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: on 2/2/01 12:46 AM, Jarkko Teppo at jate@uwasa.fi wrote: > Congrats! NeXT hardware with 3.3 is probably one of the nicest combos > I've used. Just stunning. > > Anyway to answer your question, check out CAPer by Frank Siegert: > http://www.this.net/~frank/next_cap.html > > You might want to check out his other pages as well and Timothy Luomas > pages at: > http://www.peak.org/~luomat > > Do you have the developer CD ? Yes. I have the Developer CD. Doesn't NeXTStep have AppleTalk support built in? Thanks, Owen From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 2 22:38:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 model 55SX with Procom IDE interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <790.434T2250T3385467optimus@canit.se> Russ Blakeman skrev: >Now that he knows it isn't suitable for his needs he wants to get what he >has into it - the $15 (plus shipping of about 18-20 lbs). Anyone out there >want a 55SX that you can adapt more than the standard 55SX? I'll be cleaning >and testing it this weekend and if there are no firm repsonses by next >Friday I'll toss it on eBay to see what it gets. Email me direct at I think the main item of interest would be the IDE interface. The 55SX is hardly top-of-the-line as far as MCA computing goes. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Gillar man porr..v?ld kvinno f?rnedring...och en massa onda handlingar s? ?r det filmen f?r dig....sj?lv vet jag inte..har sett 1-3......samtidigt som jag avskyr dem s? ?r det ?nd? s? n?tt magiskt bakom dem... Eric B om Urotsukid?ji From red at bears.org Sat Feb 3 00:05:13 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: AppleTalk On NeXT Cube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Owen Robertson wrote: > Yes. I have the Developer CD. Doesn't NeXTStep have AppleTalk support built > in? Not really. They toyed with including it in 3.0 or 3.1 I think, but it had lots and lots of problems. It was completely removed by 3.3. ok r. From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Feb 3 08:44:05 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Magazines In-Reply-To: References: <006d01c08d12$23a02740$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010203084115.028ca4e0@pc> At 02:44 PM 2/2/01 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > >> Carl, BTW, now publishes ID Systems and Desktop Engineering magazines. >> He still uses Robert Tinney, the artist who did a lot of the great >> early BYTE covers, from time to time. > >Michael, might you know how to contact Mr. Tinney? He would make a great >speaker for the VCF. http://www.tinney.net/ should b the first place that turns up in a web search, if you take the time to do it. I met him at a COMDEX or maybe a West Coast Computer Fair once upon a time. I suspect his home address is below. - John Robert Tinney Graphics 1864 North Pamela Drive Baton Rouge, LA 70815 (504) 272-7266 From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 3 08:59:51 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: obsoletecomputermuseum.org References: <00122112083501.03972@Billbob_Linux> Message-ID: <001b01c08df3$5cc8b280$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Layer" To: Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 1:08 PM Subject: obsoletecomputermuseum.org > I noticed that the Obsolete Computer Helpine at > http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org broke and was taken down a couple of > weeks ago, but now the whole server is unresponsive. No website anymore. > > Anyone know what's up with this? I stopped by today and found it back up at: http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/cgi-bin/helpline.pl From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Feb 3 10:54:20 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke References: <963.434T1500T2405409optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3A7C37B9.487C4CE9@eoni.com> I saw an article somewhere that much of NASA's stuff is hosted on obsolete hardware. One of the problems that is being run into is the danger of losing contact with deep space probes due to the lack of 1.) hardware and 2.) experienced personnel to operate said hardware. Specifically the article was addressing the likelihood that sometime within the next couple of years JPL was expecting to lose contact with Pioneer 10 due to said circumstances. It would be an almost impossible task to rewrite and recertify all the code to run on a later system. Hence, LSIs and early pdps are the systems that *must* be used. Regarding the Orbiter; Remember that the shuttles are a 1970's design. Certifying hardware for space is an incredibly tedious and expensive process. I believe that exactly one of them has had their systems updated to about 1995 specs a few years ago. As a point of interest. The Apollo missions were flown on 64k of memory. Mag core memory. Search for 'Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design' and pay special attention to the last one. "Space is a completely unforgiving environment. If you screw up the engineering, SOMEBODY DIES!" Jim Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Sellam Ismail skrev: > > >On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote: > > >> >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a > >> >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure > >> >why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku > >> >band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? > >> >if so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out. > > >Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed > >computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them. > > What's wrong with old-arsed computer anyway??? > BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually used core memory, > apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory. > Could anyone confirm whether this still holds true? From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sat Feb 3 10:14:30 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Brag Brag Brag Message-ID: <000301c08e17$6018bd80$0264640a@mediaone.net> Hi all I went back to the place where I got the HX-40 and got... An HP 150 II a PET 4016 a Kaypro 2X a busted TRS8- 100 but with a good screen so I can fix the one from yesterday a printer for the TI 59 Books Books and more books a number of sextan magazine An IBM AT Keyboard with unusual color (Brown and the IBM logo is Black) Various Atari Joysticks and softwares an ET 3300 unbuilt (not quite the 3400 but good anyway) Lots of miscelaneous odds and ends like a sperry univac front pannel I'm going back for a few Z100 and MAC stuff that I have not yet started to look at They also had a Compaq portable II with the cloth carrying bag, load of printers and monitors What looks like a PDP 11 clone, bunch od apple II cales new in the box and super serial cards never opened. Terminals, VAX 3100, some SUN stuff. That's all I can remember for now. Francois From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sat Feb 3 10:04:04 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... References: Message-ID: <000201c08e17$59303f20$0264640a@mediaone.net> The PF must have been added by the person who salvaged the HC-41 then. Now if I could find a serial cable for this beast.... Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:13 PM Subject: Re: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... > On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > Do you remember if it was coupled with a PF-10 floppy disk drive? I got mine > > at the same time but I don't know if it was part of the original CNC > > package. The PF is not full of metal burrs like the HC-41. > > I don't think it did. It was probably 3 years ago that I saw it. That > surplus store has since gone out of business (couldn't maintain their > Silicon Valley address with their over-priced crap). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 3 12:11:35 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Posted on E-pay... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010203101135.00994690@192.168.42.129> Ok... I've taken the "Toss it to the Wolves" approach, and posted an HP 88780 SCSI 9-tracker on E-pay. If anyone's even remotely interested, it's at this link. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1212301804 Don't have a clue if this will help find it a home, but I started it off at $25.00, no reserve, with the caveat that it is heavy and that shipping would probably be costly. It's also a Diff-SCSI interface, which may cause grief for some folks. Sound for the day: Sploog. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Feb 3 12:14:31 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke References: <963.434T1500T2405409optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3A7C4A87.E3CBC1AF@mainecoon.com> Iggy Drougge wrote: [snip] > What's wrong with old-arsed computer anyway??? Particularly in space-based applications, where flight qualification for man-rated hardware is a pangalactic bitch. > BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually used core memory, > apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory. I'm sure that's a component -- even contemporary dynamic memory is less rad hard than you'd probably like, but that's hardly the overriding reason. My increasingly dim memory suggests that the processor are slightly modified 1750A machines. There was some indication that they were a derivative of the processor using in the F-16, but I never was able to verify that. Being '70s designs suggests that core would have been the only real option. > Could anyone confirm whether this still holds true? I have no idea if the processors are being swapped out as part of the flight deck modernization program. If so it can't be too radical a departure from the existing architecture, since only one orbiter has completed that modification cycle and the thought of having two sets of tools for building the code loads for the orbiters staggers the mind. Oh yeah, that's the other thing. The code load for each orbiter is unique to the mission, and there's no real executive function -- it's a bunch of cooperating real-time tasks, such that if one pukes out it probably takes out the rest. There's been at least one documented case where the flight code load, during on-the-pad prelaunch simulation, dropped the ball and the flight deck displays ended up with the shuttle's answer to the BSOD -- an 'X' drawn through the flight deck displays. If you think that's odd, you should check out the way that voting works... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Feb 3 12:35:02 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Posted on E-pay... In-Reply-To: Posted on E-pay... (Bruce Lane) References: <3.0.5.32.20010203101135.00994690@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <14972.20310.104636.801131@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 3, Bruce Lane wrote: > Sound for the day: Sploog. Hey, I made that sound earlier today! -Dave McGuire From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 3 12:44:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Shugart SA850/851 8" floppy drive In-Reply-To: <002201c08d83$8c7cdf80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Feb 2, 1 06:49:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 585 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010203/5f195a6f/attachment.ksh From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 3 13:09:48 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: VAX Books available Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010203110948.0098a670@192.168.42.129> First person to send me $8.50 (that's $5 for the books and $3.50 Priority Mail) gets the following. 1986: VAX Architecture Handbook. 1982: Programming in VAX-11 'C' PayPal works great. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 3 13:15:44 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Oops! Almost forgot... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010203111544.00996e10@192.168.42.129> In addition to the books I posted earlier: Make it an even $10.00, and I'll throw in a reference manual and product data book for the Nmos 'Transputer.' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Feb 3 13:11:35 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board References: <00b001c08d73$a64fffb0$87789a8d@ajp166> <3A7B767F.F279E843@idirect.com> <14971.32879.520907.561025@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A7C57E7.128D603C@idirect.com> >Dave McGuire wrote: > On February 2, Jerome Fine wrote: > > course if the Pentium had been around 10 years sooner, maybe DEC > > would have made a better PDP-11. > Oh good lord. That's a troll for flamage if I've ever read one. A > good one though; I almost cut loose on you for it with about ten pages > about why this is full of doodoo. ;) Jerome Fine replies: If I remember correctly, the Pentium came out around 1993, about four years after the 486 came out around 1989. If the engineering, design and technical capability that led to the Pentium had been around in 1980, the technical superiority that the PDP-11 enjoyed over the PC might have pushed DEC hard enough to upgrade the PDP-11 systems. Consider that the VAX can't be purchased any longer as a new system while it is still possible to purchase a new PDP-11. Of course, I do understand that the primary OS for a VAX is VMS and that since the Alpha outperforms the VAX, it is no longer reasonable to purchase a new VAX as opposed to the Alpha - so to a very large extent, the reason for the lack of a new VAX as compared to a new PDP-11 is understandable. But the point I think is lacking in this aspect of the discussion is that DEC is not the company that is building and selling these new PDP-11 systems. And consider further that it is less expensive to run the E11 emulator on a PC and faster than any current hardware PDP-11 solution - if you are comparing systems with similar throughput or similar price, especially for hobby users. For commercial systems, operation at the high end can also be compared in favour of E11. With a fast Pentium III and E11, running PDP-11 software is less expensive and faster than with the fastest PDP-11 hardware. Now all of the above observations and speculation is far in the past as to why DEC stopped competing with the PDP-11 hardware and software. So as someone who runs some PDP-11 code almost every day, I just accept that DEC is no longer around. Maybe, even all PDP-11 OSs might end up in the Public Domain by the next century, although at the present time, there still seems to be some profit in the software. But back to my original question and Zane's response plus the low price of memory. Might it be possible to design and produce a Qbus board which uses memory as the disk and have an interface like the HD: on E11 rather than MSCP? Considering that from the lack of a response on my original question in regard to the use of the 8 MByte of memory, it may be just as easy to start from scratch. By the way, on the "Full" commercial E11, the command is: "MOUNT HD0: RAM:/SIZE:bytes" and HD0: can be replaced by any of the emulated drives as well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From foo at siconic.com Sat Feb 3 12:04:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Brag Brag Brag In-Reply-To: <000301c08e17$6018bd80$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > I went back to the place where I got the HX-40 and got... > An HP 150 II > a PET 4016 > a Kaypro 2X > a busted TRS8- 100 but with a good screen so I can fix the one from > yesterday > a printer for the TI 59 > Books Books and more books > a number of sextan magazine > An IBM AT Keyboard with unusual color (Brown and the IBM logo is Black) > Various Atari Joysticks and softwares > an ET 3300 unbuilt (not quite the 3400 but good anyway) > Lots of miscelaneous odds and ends like a sperry univac front pannel > > I'm going back for a few Z100 and MAC stuff that I have not yet started to > look at > They also had a Compaq portable II with the cloth carrying bag, load of > printers and monitors > What looks like a PDP 11 clone, bunch od apple II cales new in the box and > super serial cards never opened. Terminals, VAX 3100, some SUN stuff. Quite the score! This is a better haul than anything I've fished out of the Silicon Valley in recent memory. But I am picking up an IBM 3741 data station this weekend ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 3 12:10:03 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:31 2005 Subject: Anyone ever heard of... Message-ID: Anyone ever heard of a Data General machine from the 70s with the model designation CS-20 or CS-30? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Feb 3 14:10:29 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke In-Reply-To: <3A7C4A87.E3CBC1AF@mainecoon.com> References: <963.434T1500T2405409optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010203120255.00bd5d40@pacbell.net> At 10:14 AM 2/3/01 -0800, Chris Kennedy wrote: >Iggy Drougge wrote: > >... >Particularly in space-based applications, where flight qualification for >man-rated hardware is a pangalactic bitch. > > > BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually used core memory, > > apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory. >... > > Could anyone confirm whether this still holds true? > >I have no idea if the processors are being swapped out as part of the >flight deck modernization program. If so it can't be too radical a >departure from the existing architecture, since only one orbiter has >completed that modification cycle and the thought of having two >sets of tools for building the code loads for the orbiters staggers the >mind. I'm confident that I read about 8 years ago that IBM won & delivered on a contract to redesign the flight computers using more modern technology. Besides getting rid of the core, they added more banks of memory so that it wasn't necessary to load different flight sequences from tape while the mission was going on. The redesigned the computer, bug for bug. There is no separate code base or tools -- it is functionally identical, IIRC. A quick search on Google turned up some stuff. I'm not sure this is the best link, but it has some details about the system and the redesign: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-72/shutref/sts-av.html ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Feb 3 14:56:37 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board References: <200102030300.WAA17545@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3A7C7085.C5125410@idirect.com> >Megan wrote: > No, it won't show up on the bus. All transactions on that board occur > over the cable interconnect. Jerome Fine replies: I knew that part already - must be that way since the uVAX II can use 16 MBytes of memory whereas the Qbus can handle only 4 MBytes of memory. I was sort of hoping (dreaming) that someone has noticed these 8 Mbyte boards going to sleep and the PDP-11 still looking for additional memory. I realize it is probably impossible, but how does the 11/83 manage to use both the Qbus for disk I/O and the PMI for memory? And if the PMI memory is below the CPU rather than on top, the 11/83 reverts to an 11/73. If I ask enough dumb questions, maybe one of them might lead somewhere? Didn't you once make a (very small) disk memory out of some old DEC memory board? Or was that normal Qbus memory but at a high address with a gap from the regular memory. What would it take to build a small interface that looks like the HD hard disk from E11 as far as an actual hardware interface is concerned? Could it loop right back into this uVAX II memory board via the 50 pin header on top? Since the Qbus interface is already there in the backplane, maybe that interface could be added to the 8 Mbyte of memory? See, I said I would ask dumb questions! Since I know nothing at all about hardware design, I can ask all sorts of questions since I don't know enough to know when something is impossible. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Feb 3 15:37:25 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Anyone ever heard of... References: Message-ID: <3A7C7A15.8D35FCC1@mainecoon.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Anyone ever heard of a Data General machine from the 70s with the model > designation CS-20 or CS-30? They're not machines, they're complete turnkey business systems. Micronova based, as I recall, but I could be wrong. 16-bit COBOL, anyone? I've actually got some marketing collateral for these systems around here somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Feb 3 16:06:01 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: DG CS/20 & CS/30 reply Message-ID: In a message dated 2/3/2001 11:27:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, vcf@siconic.com writes: > Anyone ever heard of a Data General machine from the 70s with the model > designation CS-20 or CS-30 I have had a couple of these go through my hands about 10 years ago. I think they are late 70s or early 80s. IIRC they are a 16 bit systems with up to 128K or 512K of RAM. The C indicates Commercial and the S indicates Scientific so I think this is a multipurpose computer. I think they were a shrunk version of the Eclipse S/200 and the C/300 which were introduced in 1975. By shrunk I mean the circuit cards are about 8"X12" instead of the original Eclipse cards which are about 16" square. I think MOS memory only. About 1990 I sold one of the 512K cards for good money. The original full size Eclipses came with either core or MOS memory. I looked it up in my in my "Computer Review" of 1977 and they are not mentioned so I think they were manufactured after that. Paxton Portland, OR From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Feb 3 16:10:36 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 model 55SX with Procom IDE interface In-Reply-To: <790.434T2250T3385467optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <3A7C3B8C.6223.9334CFD@localhost> > Russ Blakeman skrev: > > >Now that he knows it isn't suitable for his needs he wants to get > >what he has into it - the $15 (plus shipping of about 18-20 lbs). > >Anyone out there want a 55SX that you can adapt more than the > >standard 55SX? I'll be cleaning and testing it this weekend and if > >there are no firm repsonses by next Friday I'll toss it on eBay to > >see what it gets. Email me direct at > > I think the main item of interest would be the IDE interface. The 55SX > is hardly top-of-the-line as far as MCA computing goes. =) > Since I'm into collecting PS/2s too, the same thought crossed my mind, and the shipping would be much cheaper, but then I rationalized "Naah he wouldn't sell the IDE card separately". ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Feb 3 15:48:26 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Al Gross RIP Message-ID: <3A7C365A.12590.91F02BB@localhost> Al Gross, the Toronto-born man many call the "father of wireless communication," has died at age 82.  "If you have a cordless telephone or a cellular telephone or a walkie talkie or beeper," Gross once said, "you've got one of my patents." He added that if his patents on those technologies hadn't run out in 1971, "Bill Gates would have to stand aside for me." http://canadacomputes.com/v3/story/1,1017,5603,00.html Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Feb 3 16:29:17 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board Message-ID: <009901c08e32$cb9013e0$87789a8d@ajp166> > Isn't the max memory in a MicroVAX II 13 MB? Mine has 1 MB >on the CPU board, an 8 MB board, and a 4 MB board and it is my >understanding that this is maxed out. No, 16mb If you use two 8mb boards it disables the onboard 1mb. Allison From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 3 16:49:56 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: EPSON HC-41 mystery solved... In-Reply-To: <000201c08e17$59303f20$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > The PF must have been added by the person who salvaged the HC-41 then. Now > if I could find a serial cable for this beast.... > Francois Does your PF-10 have the 8-pin mini-DIN or the 6-pin DIN? I cannot locate my wiring diagram for the mini-DIN at the moment and may need to ring it out. - don From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Feb 3 16:49:48 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board Message-ID: <00a001c08e34$e67c18f0$87789a8d@ajp166> >If I remember correctly, the Pentium came out around 1993, about four >years after the 486 came out around 1989. If the engineering, design and >technical capability that led to the Pentium had been around in 1980, the >technical superiority that the PDP-11 enjoyed over the PC might have >pushed DEC hard enough to upgrade the PDP-11 systems. Ah, is that hit on the head healing or is the ethanol talking... DEC did improve the PDP-11. Back in the 70s they created the VAX and just when pentium getting remotely close there was Alpha. >For commercial systems, operation at the high end can also be >compared in favour of E11. With a fast Pentium III and E11, >running PDP-11 software is less expensive and faster than with >the fastest PDP-11 hardware. E11 may be good and all but it runs on PCs and their record for reliability is not that of a native PDP-11... yet! >But back to my original question and Zane's response plus the low >price of memory. Might it be possible to design and produce a >Qbus board which uses memory as the disk and have an interface >like the HD: on E11 rather than MSCP? Considering that from >the lack of a response on my original question in regard to the >use of the 8 MByte of memory, it may be just as easy to start >from scratch. By the way, on the "Full" commercial E11, the >command is: "MOUNT HD0: RAM:/SIZE:bytes" >and HD0: can be replaced by any of the emulated drives as well. Nonrotataing didks for PDP-11s are really old news, seems EMC and AMPEX were names I remember. Allison From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sat Feb 3 17:05:10 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 model 55SX with Procom IDE interface In-Reply-To: <3A7C3B8C.6223.9334CFD@localhost> Message-ID: Quite possible but he'd still be out some cash. Make a reasonable offer and remember what a pain it is to ship between countries (grin). -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 4:11 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: FS: IBM PS/2 model 55SX with Procom IDE interface > Russ Blakeman skrev: > > >Now that he knows it isn't suitable for his needs he wants to get > >what he has into it - the $15 (plus shipping of about 18-20 lbs). > >Anyone out there want a 55SX that you can adapt more than the > >standard 55SX? I'll be cleaning and testing it this weekend and if > >there are no firm repsonses by next Friday I'll toss it on eBay to > >see what it gets. Email me direct at > > I think the main item of interest would be the IDE interface. The 55SX > is hardly top-of-the-line as far as MCA computing goes. =) > Since I'm into collecting PS/2s too, the same thought crossed my mind, and the shipping would be much cheaper, but then I rationalized "Naah he wouldn't sell the IDE card separately". ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Feb 3 17:46:06 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: PDP11 non-rotating memory disk In-Reply-To: <00a001c08e34$e67c18f0$87789a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Feb 3, 2001 05:49:48 pm" Message-ID: <200102032346.f13Nk7407737@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> > Nonrotataing didks for PDP-11s are really old news, seems EMC > and AMPEX were names I remember. > > Allison Actually, the slickest box I had was the ML-11 (a box of MK11 with a disk controller that sat on the massbus and looked like and RS04 (I think). It used semi-good MK11 cards and had battery-backed up memory and NVRAM -- which held the "bad sector" information which the diags would record when formatting the memory. This made it pretty impervious to the single and double bit error problems which MK could occasionally spit. Repeat bad memory could be formatted out and revectored -- IIRC. -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From foo at siconic.com Sat Feb 3 18:48:22 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Anyone ever heard of... In-Reply-To: <3A7C7A15.8D35FCC1@mainecoon.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Anyone ever heard of a Data General machine from the 70s with the model > > designation CS-20 or CS-30? > > They're not machines, they're complete turnkey business systems. Micronova > based, as I recall, but I could be wrong. 16-bit COBOL, anyone? > > I've actually got some marketing collateral for these systems around > here somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up. Interesting. The guy who's doing my taxes this year says he bought one in the 70s for his business, but I'd never heard of them. He said it was a piece of shit and he sued to return it. Even more interesting, he bought it through Intel, who apparently did retail computer sales in the 70s. Anyway, he's gonna look for the sales literature he saved from it, and I'm gonna try to get it off of him. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rcini at optonline.net Sat Feb 3 20:45:46 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Quest for Apple II Red Book Message-ID: Hello, all: I want to begin my quest for a copy of the Apple II "Red Book." If anyone has a copy and can tell me if it has an ISBN number on it, and what that number is, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From optimus at canit.se Sat Feb 3 21:14:11 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: <3A7C57E7.128D603C@idirect.com> Message-ID: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> Jerome Fine skrev: >from scratch. By the way, on the "Full" commercial E11, the >command is: "MOUNT HD0: RAM:/SIZE:bytes" AAAAH! I've found my unknown heritage at last! That syntax is almost exactly AmigaDOS! How can this be? My Amiga has got both a RAM: and a HD0:, as well as a "Mount" command. What kind of system is E11? BTW, has anyone got any experience with "Tripos"? It is supposed to have served as inspiration for the hastily programmed BCPL AmigaDOS which replaced the originally intended, but infinitely delayed, UNIX-like DOS. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. From optimus at canit.se Sat Feb 3 21:17:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 model 55SX with Procom IDE interface In-Reply-To: <3A7C3B8C.6223.9334CFD@localhost> Message-ID: <1246.435T2800T2576817optimus@canit.se> Lawrence Walker skrev: >> Russ Blakeman skrev: >> >> >Now that he knows it isn't suitable for his needs he wants to get >> >what he has into it - the $15 (plus shipping of about 18-20 lbs). >> >Anyone out there want a 55SX that you can adapt more than the >> >standard 55SX? I'll be cleaning and testing it this weekend and if >> >there are no firm repsonses by next Friday I'll toss it on eBay to >> >see what it gets. Email me direct at >> >> I think the main item of interest would be the IDE interface. The 55SX >> is hardly top-of-the-line as far as MCA computing goes. =) >> > Since I'm into collecting PS/2s too, the same thought crossed my >mind, and the shipping would be much cheaper, but then I >rationalized "Naah he wouldn't sell the IDE card separately". When I moved, I was suddenyly forced to throw some computers out so that everything would fit into the transport. One of my first choices was the model 55 (as well as a NEC Multisync 2A, which is no multisync in my book). I can't say that I miss the 55SX, but I sure miss the 3C529 card which was still in it. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Idealismus ist die F?higkeit, die Menschen so zu sehen, wie sie sein k?nnten, wenn sie nicht so w?ren, wie sie sind. --- Curt Goetz From louiss at gate.net Sat Feb 3 21:35:43 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Quest for Apple II Red Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200102040335.WAA307750@shasta.gate.net> On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:45:46 -0500, Richard A. Cini wrote: >Hello, all: > > I want to begin my quest for a copy of the Apple II "Red Book." > > If anyone has a copy and can tell me if it has an ISBN number on it, and >what that number is, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. > >Rich ISBN Number? That's pretty funny. Have you ever seen a "Red Book"? There isn't even a copyright notice! The title page says: APPLE II Reference Manual January 1978 Apple Part No. 030-0004-00 APPLE Computer Inc. 10260 Bandley Dr. Cupertino, CA 95014 Louis From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Feb 3 22:23:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Jerome Fine skrev: > >>from scratch. By the way, on the "Full" commercial E11, the >>command is: "MOUNT HD0: RAM:/SIZE:bytes" > >AAAAH! I've found my unknown heritage at last! >That syntax is almost exactly AmigaDOS! How can this be? My Amiga has got both >a RAM: and a HD0:, as well as a "Mount" command. It does rather look like AmigaDOS syntax. I wonder if it has any raltionship to Tripos? BTW, I found an interesting thing buried in the development sample programs on the NeXTstep 3.3 Developer's CD, and it actually reminds me of the Amiga's famous Boing ball logo. It's a little app. called 'Backspace' and it includes the now-standard moving starfield as well as a bouncing red/white checkered ball (sound familiar? ). Both of them can be run in a window or set as the background, or even used as a screensaver. What makes them interesting as the desktop/workbench/workspace background is that even as the background they are still animated! It makes for an interesting display having the backdrop behind the windows and menus animated. I had never noticed this little program before. It's shown as having been written by Samuel Streeper, (c) 1991, 1992, NeXT Computer Inc. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mbg at world.std.com Sat Feb 3 22:25:10 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board Message-ID: <200102040425.XAA27239@world.std.com> >Actually you've got me thinking there. Considering that RAM is dirt >cheap these days. I'm wondering what it would take to build a RL02 drive >that is actually a RAM disk (of course you'd be able to fit several disks >on one stick of RAM), and what kind of performance you'd get. Off course >I'm not a hardware type, so I don't know how hard that would be. Hmmm... don't the MS630/MS650 boards simply get power from the bus, and memory transactions are over the PMI cable? If so, then what about some sort of Qbus option which looks like a disk, but has a connector on it so that it connects to the MS6xx board... ready-made memory farm which could be used as a disk... (And don't some of the boards come in 16mb and 32mb flavors?) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sat Feb 3 22:43:08 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board References: <200102030300.WAA17545@world.std.com> Message-ID: <200102040443.XAA11491@world.std.com> >I was sort of hoping (dreaming) that someone has noticed these 8 Mbyte >boards going to sleep and the PDP-11 still looking for additional >memory. I realize it is probably impossible, but how does the 11/83 >manage to use both the Qbus for disk I/O and the PMI for memory? >And if the PMI memory is below the CPU rather than on top, the 11/83 >reverts to an 11/73. As I understand it, the VAX only communicates with the memory over the cable. On the 11/73 and family, the original memory reference goes out on the bus, and the initial response is over the bus, but several additional words are then supplied over the PMI bus... so those words are cached in expectation of them being referenced due to proximity to the actual referenced word. >Didn't you once make a (very small) disk memory out of some old DEC >memory board? Or was that normal Qbus memory but at a high address >with a gap from the regular memory. What I did was take one of the Bridge86 boards (an 8086 on a Qbus board with its own memory) and wrote a handler to access its memory as if it were a disk). >What would it take to build a small interface that looks like the HD hard >disk from E11 as far as an actual hardware interface is concerned? >Could it loop right back into this uVAX II memory board via the 50 pin >header on top? Since the Qbus interface is already there in the >backplane, maybe that interface could be added to the 8 Mbyte of memory? >See, I said I would ask dumb questions! Actually, that is an idea I mentioned in mail earlier tonight, prompted by something Zane said, I think... I was thinking that if the MS6xx memory boards only use the Qbus for their power, and all transactions really do happen over the cable, then it should be possible to design a Qbus option which looks like a disk, but which communications with one or more MS6xx boards over the PMI cable. Is there an actual signal requirement for the MS6xx boards to be in the PMI slots of a qbus backplane, or is it simply because they are closest to the uVax processor board...? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sun Feb 4 00:43:12 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Brag Brag Brag References: <000301c08e17$6018bd80$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: <003501c08e75$ce0ab560$0264640a@mediaone.net> I hate to reply to my own post but: I noticed that the issues of Sextan that I got are number one through 36. The editorial on issue 36 sure does not look like a last issue editorial. Here's the question: how many Sextan issues were published? Thanks Francois PS: I could not make it back again today because of snow but I'm planning to make it tomorrow (sunday). > a number of sextan magazine From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 3 22:49:22 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: <200102040425.XAA27239@world.std.com> Message-ID: Megan wrote: >Zane wrote: >>Actually you've got me thinking there. Considering that RAM is dirt >>cheap these days. I'm wondering what it would take to build a RL02 drive >>that is actually a RAM disk (of course you'd be able to fit several disks >>on one stick of RAM), and what kind of performance you'd get. Off course >>I'm not a hardware type, so I don't know how hard that would be. > >Hmmm... don't the MS630/MS650 boards simply get power from the bus, >and memory transactions are over the PMI cable? If so, then what >about some sort of Qbus option which looks like a disk, but has a >connector on it so that it connects to the MS6xx board... ready-made >memory farm which could be used as a disk... (And don't some of the >boards come in 16mb and 32mb flavors?) I think this is more or less what Jerome was looking for. IIRC, you're right about the boards only getting power from the Q-Bus. One problem I see is you might be limited to what slots the boards can go it. MS630's came as 1,2,4, and 8MB boards, and MS650's came as 8MB or 16MB. MS630's and MS650's weren't interchangable on the VAXen, so might not be mixable for something like this. I believe there were 16MB 3rd party MS630 equivalents, and 32MB MS650 equivalents, but am not possitive. What I'd been suggesting is a board with a single DIMM slot that you could go out and buy 64,128, or 256MB and slap it in. Have some sort of battery backup and you're good to go. Though this might actually need to be in an external box. For the maximum usefulness you'd have it in a box, and simply plug it into an RL02 Controller. For maximum usefulness have a switch that'll allow you to save the memory image to a EIDE HD. Of course since an EIDE disk would be able to saturate the Q-Bus.... Anyone have any idea how hard it would be to build a box with a DIMM in it that looked like an RL02? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 3 22:52:20 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >>>from scratch. By the way, on the "Full" commercial E11, the >>>command is: "MOUNT HD0: RAM:/SIZE:bytes" >> >>AAAAH! I've found my unknown heritage at last! >>That syntax is almost exactly AmigaDOS! How can this be? My Amiga has got >>both >>a RAM: and a HD0:, as well as a "Mount" command. > > It does rather look like AmigaDOS syntax. I wonder if it has >any raltionship to Tripos? I'm drawing a blank here on Tripos, but I've noticed some simularities to OpenVMS in the Amiga OS. IIRC, AmigaOS development was done on something like a VAX-11/780. Anyway the above syntax kind of looks like something you'd find in a DEC OS to me. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Feb 3 23:18:06 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >I'm drawing a blank here on Tripos, but I've noticed some simularities to >OpenVMS in the Amiga OS. IIRC, AmigaOS development was done on something >like a VAX-11/780. Anyway the above syntax kind of looks like something >you'd find in a DEC OS to me. The main source on which I've seen it mentioned that AmigaDOS was a port of Tripos was on Gareth Knight's 'Amiga Interactive Guide'. It was supposedly ported by a company called MetaComCo in late 1984 when the original 'Intuition' was way behind schedule. That's the first time I've heard that AmigaOS developement was done on a VAX though. For those not familiar with Gareth's web page, it's been around for quite a while and has quite a lot of good information on all things Amiga. http://amiga.emugaming.com/aig.html Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 4 01:31:16 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: CS/20 and CS/30 Message-ID: The CS/20 and CS/30 are microNOVA based machines, I can't speak for the CS/30 but the CS/20 dates to 1978... I'm not at all surprised that he would have bought it through Intel, during the late 70's and early 80's Intel was making memory boards for DG machines and also for PDP-11's, both Qbus and Unibus. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Sun Feb 4 07:14:11 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se><631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <004801c08eac$97e41440$0101010a@pentium2> Jeff Hellige wrote: > >I'm drawing a blank here on Tripos, but I've noticed some simularities to > >OpenVMS in the Amiga OS. IIRC, AmigaOS development was done on something > >like a VAX-11/780. Anyway the above syntax kind of looks like something > >you'd find in a DEC OS to me. > > The main source on which I've seen it mentioned that AmigaDOS > was a port of Tripos was on Gareth Knight's 'Amiga Interactive > Guide'. It was supposedly ported by a company called MetaComCo in > late 1984 when the original 'Intuition' was way behind schedule. The original Amiga team developed on some kind of Sun system. If you use DiskSalv on the Workbench disks you can even recover a Sun-Amiga transfer program. I'm afraid I can't be specific on the exact spec of the Sun system, even the Amiga team don't know what they used.... As for TripOS, it was developed at Cambridge University (IIRC). It is possible that they used a Vax at the Uni. or MetaComCo but I don't have information to support or disprove this. Dr. Tim King of MetaComCo had already ported the OS to the Motorola 68k before Commodore contacted them. It was a minor task of getting it to work on the Amiga, but required a few months to get it to work with Intuition. I haven't updated the page in a while, but there is relevant information on the following pages: http://amiga.emugaming.com/caos.html http://amiga.emugaming.com/commphoto.html As a side note, there was a web site by one of the original TripOS developers that had source code and binaries for an x86 and Atari ST port. The link I have is dead, but it may be worth a look. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Sun Feb 4 07:47:46 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se><631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <004801c08eac$97e41440$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <00df01c08eb1$12722540$0101010a@pentium2> I wrote: > http://amiga.emugaming.com/caos.html > http://amiga.emugaming.com/commphoto.html Typical. I send the email and find the page that I was looking for. The Dave Haynie archive has a good article on TripOS and it relation to AmigaOS. http://www.thule.no/haynie/caos.html -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Feb 4 08:08:35 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <00df01c08eb1$12722540$0101010a@pentium2> References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <004801c08eac$97e41440$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010204080704.02843ef0@pc> At 01:47 PM 2/4/01 +0000, Gareth Knight wrote: >Typical. I send the email and find the page that I was looking for. The Dave >Haynie archive has a good article on TripOS and it relation to AmigaOS. >http://www.thule.no/haynie/caos.html Actually, that's Andy Finkel talking about the spec for the original CAOS, not the OS that was actally implemented and shipped. :-) (Insert joke about heaven, hell, and punch line "That was the demo." - John From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Feb 4 08:29:29 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <004801c08eac$97e41440$0101010a@pentium2> References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010204080106.02885220@pc> At 01:14 PM 2/4/01 +0000, Gareth Knight wrote: >The original Amiga team developed on some kind of Sun system. If you use >DiskSalv on the Workbench disks you can even recover a Sun-Amiga transfer >program. I don't particularly remember tools for Sun, but it's possible. What I do remember is that they told early developers about a Sage, 68000-based co-development system. I may even have disks with those tools on them. There was also a Lattice PC-based cross-compiler. I think I have that, too. I remember using it, or trying to use it. A dual-floppy Compaq luggable was a step above the gronk-gronk Amiga floppies for development in some ways. I was an early Amiga developer. I think my A1000 is serial number 35 or so. Once upon a time in a serial number contest on Compuserve, I think only Charlie Heath beat mine. >As for TripOS, it was developed at Cambridge University (IIRC). It is >possible that they used a Vax at the Uni. or MetaComCo but I don't have >information to support or disprove this. >Dr. Tim King of MetaComCo had already ported the OS to the Motorola 68k Tripos was written in BCPL, a language created by Martin Richards, often quoted as a progenitor of C: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/ http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/Tripos.html http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?BCPL http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bcpl.html Metacomco had a 68000 version of Tripos and a BCPL compiler, and when Amiga was in a bind, they used their OS core. I don't get too excited about foolish consistencies like the "MOUNT" command. Anyone working with operating systems in the 70s modeled parts on what they'd seen before, and that certainly involved DEC computers and OSes. I think HD0: is a co-evolutionary natural name, if you're using colons to demark volume names and you own a Hard Disk. - John From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Feb 4 08:59:57 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010204080106.02885220@pc> References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <4.3.2.7.0.20010204080106.02885220@pc> Message-ID: >I don't particularly remember tools for Sun, but it's possible. >What I do remember is that they told early developers about a >Sage, 68000-based co-development system. I may even have disks >with those tools on them. There was also a Lattice PC-based Thanks for the insights into the early software development. I've seen plenty of interviews and such where the later development was talked about, but rarely anything from prior to the release of the A1000. My personal A1000, along with my Atari MegaST-2 and Osborne Executive, came to me after being retired from NRL (Navy Research Lab) in Washington D.C, as did my previous NeXT. >that certainly involved DEC computers and OSes. I think >HD0: is a co-evolutionary natural name, if you're using >colons to demark volume names and you own a Hard Disk. I've always thought the AmigaDOS drive designators were one of the more logical and easy to understand out there. I mean come on, DF0: = drive, floppy, number 0! Certainly easier to figure out exactly what it is you're looking at than the CP/M & MS-DOS convention of starting with A: and working your way up the alphabet. Then you didn't even have to stick with DF0: or HD0:, you could refer to it interchangably using it's volume label as well. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Sun Feb 4 09:10:18 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se><631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <4.3.2.7.0.20010204080106.02885220@pc> Message-ID: <000a01c08ebc$9e683840$0101010a@pentium2> John Foust wrote: > I don't particularly remember tools for Sun, but it's possible. IIRC, the Amiga team celebrated the fact that Commodore paid for a Sun system each. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Feb 4 11:00:10 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Can anyone identify this board? Message-ID: <001501c08ecc$3b202990$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> At the top right under 2 red toggles, and LED's is Model no. MPC-75 675001 issue a serial no. 055 date 10 82 on the bottom right are AIR LAND SYSTEMS and 2 pins labelled spkr terms. The bottom is 2 groups of 22 pins the first group has a break between pins 7-8 and the second group between 13-14 A PROM1 is labelled NTRKBD .101-1-1.2683 in pencil on the top left below a 25 pin connector with 2 missing in the centre. On the left edge is CCA 94V0 8-82 card is about 10" by 7" the pins groups are 3.5" with a 1.25" gap From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Sun Feb 4 11:06:09 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se><631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se><4.3.2.7.0.20010204080106.02885220@pc> Message-ID: <002501c08ecc$dd554740$0101010a@pentium2> Jeff Hellige wrote: > Then you didn't even have to stick with DF0: or HD0:, you could refer > to it interchangably using it's volume label as well. That is good and bad. I've known people who would called their partition Games: instead of DH2:. It confuses some software when you don't stick to the logical 3 letter device name. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Feb 4 11:05:42 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board Message-ID: <00e101c08ecd$fbd93590$87789a8d@ajp166> >Anyone have any idea how hard it would be to build a box with a DIMM in it >that looked like an RL02? > > Zane I know how but it would take at least three more rounds with the flu to convince me of the sanity of doing it.. Consider this both RL02 and ESDI both use a SERIAL data path with a FORMAT defined but standard and the media. Thats a hell of a lot of trouble to go to when disks in the 32mb and smaller range are easy to find. Sure you get to use existing drivers but you have put a immense amount of time in the emulating of the disk so it interfaces. To ing it right, and simpler would be sothing like a DRV11 and a couple of simms add to that the glue to do refresh and battery back up and you done. Then you need a driver. Allison From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Feb 4 11:33:13 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <002501c08ecc$dd554740$0101010a@pentium2> References: <631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se><631.435T550T2544155optimus@canit.se> <4.3.2.7.0.20010204080106.02885220@pc> <002501c08ecc$dd554740$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: >Jeff Hellige wrote: >> Then you didn't even have to stick with DF0: or HD0:, you could refer >> to it interchangably using it's volume label as well. > >That is good and bad. I've known people who would called their partition >Games: instead of DH2:. It confuses some software when you don't stick to >the logical 3 letter device name. I generally named my partitions after the manufacturer of the drive and never had any problems using either the 3 letter device name or the volume label interchangably. I did this because I generally had at least one external SCSI drive hanging off my A3000 and A4000, an IBM 0661 2gig drive. I've had this thing for about 7 years now, connected to anything you could think of that might have a SCSI interface and it's still going strong. Both my A3000/4000 were running under OS 3.1. I had pre-order OS 3.5 prior to deciding to sell my A4000. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 4 10:37:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Quest for Apple II Red Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Richard A. Cini wrote: > I want to begin my quest for a copy of the Apple II "Red Book." > > If anyone has a copy and can tell me if it has an ISBN number on it, and > what that number is, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. Rich, Being a real low budget production, the original Apple II Reference Manual--a.k.a. "Red Book" because it's a big, red, 8.5x11 manuscript--has no ISBN number. The only number on it is an Apple part number: 030-0004-00. Did you know there was a "Blue Book"? It's the original Applesoft Reference Manual done up in the same sketchy manner as the Red Book only with a blue cover. At any rate, not terribly easy to find but they do come up for sale on eBay from time to time, albeit at horrendous prices. All I remember is seeing some go for $100+. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 4 10:41:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Brag Brag Brag In-Reply-To: <003501c08e75$ce0ab560$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > I hate to reply to my own post but: > I noticed that the issues of Sextan that I got are number one through 36. > The editorial on issue 36 sure does not look like a last issue editorial. > Here's the question: how many Sextan issues were published? I don't know about "Sextan", but I'd sure like to take a peek between the covers of an issue :) If you're talking about Sextant, I'll check my pile at some point and see what I have. I know I have a complete run. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Miniminstrels at aol.com Sun Feb 4 13:16:10 2001 From: Miniminstrels at aol.com (Miniminstrels@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: transfer HD disk to DD Message-ID: <8f.6739342.27af047a@aol.com> Can you tell me hoe to copy a HD disk tp a DD disk so that I can use it in my PSR6000 ? Marlene. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010204/a4bc8a3c/attachment.html From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Feb 4 13:24:44 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Feb 4, 2001 12:33:13 pm" Message-ID: <200102041924.f14JOjW09979@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> > I generally named my partitions after the manufacturer of the > drive and never had any problems using either the 3 letter device > name or the volume label interchangably. I did this because I > generally had at least one external SCSI drive hanging off my A3000 > and A4000, an IBM 0661 2gig drive. I've had this thing for about 7 > years now, connected to anything you could think of that might have a > SCSI interface and it's still going strong. Both my A3000/4000 were > running under OS 3.1. I had pre-order OS 3.5 prior to deciding to > sell my A4000. > > Jeff A friend of mine worked on the port of AT&T SVR4 to the Amiga. It sold (I think) at the University of Virginia as the official student workstation of the Engineering School. I've never used an Amiga, but I'd love to get my hands on one of those Amigas with Unix on it. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 4 12:49:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <004801c08eac$97e41440$0101010a@pentium2> from "Gareth Knight" at Feb 4, 1 01:14:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 765 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010204/76c4cc81/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 4 12:44:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Feb 3, 1 11:23:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1028 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010204/0caff5fd/attachment.ksh From gene at ehrich.com Sun Feb 4 15:13:11 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: John Mauchley In-Reply-To: <200102041924.f14JOjW09979@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010204160942.00ae6340@popmail.voicenet.com> Does anybody have knowledge about John Mauchley (of Eckert & Mauchley). I have an e-mail acquaintance who is claiming that he grew up with the son of one of the inventors of Eniac and their real name was MacCauley that was changes to Mauchley. None of the biographies of Mauchley say anything about the name MacCauley. My ex-wife taught Mauchley's daughter back around 1963 in catholic school in Ambler PA. From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Feb 4 15:54:27 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: <00e101c08ecd$fbd93590$87789a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Heh... I was pondering this morn (whilst making lasagne) about building a RD52 replacement out of flash memory... I have previously looked at emulation with a modern IDE hard drive, but gave it up as infeasible... Anybody have documentation on the data format used by the RQDXx controllers? I have a datasheet on the controller chip for the RQDX3, but I'd also like to support the RQDX1 as well.... The basic plan would be thus: Each track occupies 2^n bytes from a 128MB (or larger flash rom). The step-in (step-out) signal increments (decrements) a counter that drives the upper address bits. After a suitable delay (can anyone say 555 timer) the seek complete bit is set, and the bits are transmitted in serial fashion from a fixed clock running at 5MHz (i think). If write gate is asserted, the bits are latched, at written to the flash 16 bits at a time, thus giving a write cycle time of 3.2 uS which should be fast enough. An improvement would be to cache the write data in a small RAM (32Kx8 is smallest I know of), then write the whole thing at once during a seek. The tricky part here is maintaining synchronization with the controller, probably requiring a PLL of some sort... Alternately, the data could be de-MFM-ed, and stored just as data, but this requires re-MFM-ing, and adding address/data marks as well. It also breaks any diagnostic that wants to write long to force an ECC error. I'm still pondering... clint PS The board would also need some big power resistors to sink the 32 Watts for RD53 compatability :) On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >Anyone have any idea how hard it would be to build a box with a DIMM in > it > >that looked like an RL02? > > > > Zane > > > I know how but it would take at least three more rounds with the flu to > convince > me of the sanity of doing it.. > > Consider this both RL02 and ESDI both use a SERIAL data path with a > FORMAT > defined but standard and the media. Thats a hell of a lot of trouble to > go to when disks > in the 32mb and smaller range are easy to find. Sure you get to use > existing drivers > but you have put a immense amount of time in the emulating of the disk so > it interfaces. > > To ing it right, and simpler would be sothing like a DRV11 and a couple > of simms > add to that the glue to do refresh and battery back up and you done. > Then you need > a driver. > > Allison > > > From optimus at canit.se Sun Feb 4 15:49:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <200102041924.f14JOjW09979@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <737.435T1550T13695579optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >A friend of mine worked on the port of AT&T SVR4 to the Amiga. >It sold (I think) at the University of Virginia as the official student >workstation of the Engineering School. >I've never used an Amiga, but I'd love to get my hands on one of those >Amigas with Unix on it. I'd love to get my hands on AMIX, Amiga SVR4, but it was only distributed on tape, AFAIK, and the only time I've seen it was on eBay at a rather exaggerated price, IIRC. I do have some more modern X servers and such for AMIX on a NetBSD distribution. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods From optimus at canit.se Sun Feb 4 15:40:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1095.435T1800T13605213optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>>>from scratch. By the way, on the "Full" commercial E11, the >>>>command is: "MOUNT HD0: RAM:/SIZE:bytes" >>> >>>AAAAH! I've found my unknown heritage at last! >>>That syntax is almost exactly AmigaDOS! How can this be? My Amiga has got >>>both >>>a RAM: and a HD0:, as well as a "Mount" command. >> >> It does rather look like AmigaDOS syntax. I wonder if it has >>any raltionship to Tripos? >I'm drawing a blank here on Tripos, but I've noticed some simularities to >OpenVMS in the Amiga OS. IIRC, AmigaOS development was done on something >like a VAX-11/780. Anyway the above syntax kind of looks like something >you'd find in a DEC OS to me. I read an article a while ago about (I think) TOPS-20, and indeed a lot of commands seemed familiar. I seem to recall commands such as DIR and DELETE, and what else..? Aren't arguments human-language, too, as opposed to the hostile UNIX -LfrDb style arguments? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. When does a system administrator do the first backup? The first day on the job after the system administrator who never did. From optimus at canit.se Sun Feb 4 15:47:00 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <002501c08ecc$dd554740$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <690.435T0T13673841optimus@canit.se> Gareth Knight skrev: >Jeff Hellige wrote: >> Then you didn't even have to stick with DF0: or HD0:, you could refer >> to it interchangably using it's volume label as well. >That is good and bad. I've known people who would called their partition >Games: instead of DH2:. It confuses some software when you don't stick to >the logical 3 letter device name. Must be some bloody ill-programmed, medieval software. After all, even Commodore changed the default drive names, from DH0: to HD0:. Since disks are addressed through their label and not their drive name, that should be entirely transparent to everyone involved. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Feb 4 17:25:38 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: uVAX II Memory Board Message-ID: <010d01c08f02$7fa2b4d0$87789a8d@ajp166> From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) >Heh... I was pondering this morn (whilst making lasagne) about building >a RD52 replacement out of flash memory... I have previously looked at >emulation with a modern IDE hard drive, but gave it up as infeasible... If that was too hard, emulating the RD52 itself is worse. >Each track occupies 2^n bytes from a 128MB (or larger flash rom). > >The step-in (step-out) signal increments (decrements) a counter >that drives the upper address bits. You also need track 0000 indication so you can home to a known point. >After a suitable delay (can anyone say 555 timer) the seek complete >bit is set, and the bits are transmitted in serial fashion from a >fixed clock running at 5MHz (i think). It's serial but there are embedded clock and little bits of data like address marks, sync marks and data marks. The format looks a little like Sync HDLC with MFM or FM encoding added. If your recording it like a wav or image then expect to waste a few bits per "bit" stored. I'd shoot for 8:1. then there are things like INDEX and aligning data with it. >If write gate is asserted, the bits are latched, at written to the >flash 16 bits at a time, thus giving a write cycle time of 3.2 uS bytes are sent serial and the default is 8bits. >which should be fast enough. An improvement would be to cache the >write data in a small RAM (32Kx8 is smallest I know of), then write >the whole thing at once during a seek. The tricky part here is >maintaining synchronization with the controller, probably requiring >a PLL of some sort... Yep you need that too plus a lot more. Keep in mind the FDC (9224 on the RQDX3 is not fully compatable with RQDX1 ) runs at it's internal clock for writing and you keep up or loose data. Also data is sent at the physical sector level of single or groups of multiple sector transfers. >Alternately, the data could be de-MFM-ed, and stored just as data, >but this requires re-MFM-ing, and adding address/data marks as well. >It also breaks any diagnostic that wants to write long to force an >ECC error. Yep your starting to see how complex it is. Believe it or not running two FDCs back to back will work but the CPU intelligence needed on the emulator side will not be trivial. Really the simplest way out is an IDE or DRAM and a bus interface of some sort. Sure this means a new driver is needed and that has it's headaches. However from a hardware perspective the IDE is point blank simple with a Ramdisk being harder. What complicates the issue is when someone wants to run V7 or Rt11 and wants a standard driver to work. MSCP is common enough but requires a cpu to manage the protocal and the sticky problem of copyright/patents. I'd think the effort should start at the nuts and bolts level. IE: what widely used PDP-11 software driver do we have the most docs for and can modify easily. then build an IDE to match that. FYI: there is one that come to mind...TU58! The answer is yes it can be done but if you can't conceive of the difficulties you not likely to be able to make it work. For it to be useful for most everyone it would have to be simple enough to use (PCB and assembled) and reliable (means tested under all OSs and diags) or it would be a very expensive science fair project. Allison From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sun Feb 4 19:28:04 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: Brag Brag Brag References: Message-ID: <001701c08f12$f2595d20$0264640a@mediaone.net> > I don't know about "Sextan", but I'd sure like to take a peek between the > covers of an issue :) Actually being in CA you have a better chance of seing one than I do here in MN. > > If you're talking about Sextant, I'll check my pile at some point and see > what I have. I know I have a complete run. Please do... I went back today and got 5 Z100 (enough to make 3) one of them is the integrated one with monitor and HD supposed to boot some flavor of DOS. Also got the Tech reference for the Z-100. Grabbed a few LCD displays for the Apple portable, zenith supersport and toshiba something... Got more manuals too for zenith. Oh and an HP plotter 7475A with manual and loads of pens (see if they work) Also got a "RARE L@@K spectrum era" popular electronics introducing the ALTAIR 680. I guess that's better than no popular electronics at all. Now I relly have space problems: I HAVE TO clean BOTH my office and the familly room BEFORE next week end ouch! Best week-end I've had in a while (computer and hobby wyse that is ;-) ). Francois From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Feb 4 19:32:28 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:32 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection References: <010d01c08f02$7fa2b4d0$87789a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000801c08f13$80d09dc0$0100a8c0@jack> the one used on mips machines and vax 4000/vlc, three small coax (male) connectors side-by-side in a receptacle....is there a way to "jerry rig" these sub-d coax plugs and connect them to 3 bnc's without just soldering them in? I can't seem to find a 3w3to bnc videocable anymore.... Where would I find the matching small coax (female) plugs? Fred From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 4 19:49:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection References: <010d01c08f02$7fa2b4d0$87789a8d@ajp166> <000801c08f13$80d09dc0$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <000901c08f15$e18be1e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Soldering them to a mating socket via some RG59 should work. Crimp 3 bnc's on each of three cables and solder them to the respective pins on the other connector. These cables, IIRC normally cost $18-$25 at the local computer store, however. It may not be worth the extra work to you. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred deBros" To: Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 6:32 PM Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection > the one used on mips machines and vax 4000/vlc, three small coax (male) > connectors side-by-side in a receptacle....is there a way to "jerry rig" > these sub-d coax plugs and connect them to 3 bnc's without just soldering > them in? > I can't seem to find a 3w3to bnc videocable anymore.... > > Where would I find the matching small coax (female) plugs? > > Fred > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Feb 4 20:03:28 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection In-Reply-To: <000901c08f15$e18be1e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> "from Richard Erlacher at Feb 4, 2001 06:49:30 pm" Message-ID: <200102050203.UAA24448@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Or check ebay occasionally, since one appears to be available there right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1212016224 -Lawrence LeMay > Soldering them to a mating socket via some RG59 should work. Crimp 3 bnc's > on each of three cables and solder them to the respective pins on the other > connector. These cables, IIRC normally cost $18-$25 at the local computer > store, however. It may not be worth the extra work to you. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred deBros" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 6:32 PM > Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection > > > > the one used on mips machines and vax 4000/vlc, three small coax (male) > > connectors side-by-side in a receptacle....is there a way to "jerry rig" > > these sub-d coax plugs and connect them to 3 bnc's without just soldering > > them in? > > I can't seem to find a 3w3to bnc videocable anymore.... > > > > Where would I find the matching small coax (female) plugs? > > > > Fred > > > > > From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 4 20:08:00 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? Message-ID: Well, I myself an a fellow shipmate stationed at Groton, Connecticut. As hard as it seems to believe, I have only been in since August the 10th. > At the moment, I have a bit of an identity crisis going on. >I'm Navy working on an Air Force base and am supposed to be working >supply but currently work for the IS Dept. because they needed >another person, especially one with Mac skills. Just 3 more years >and I can 'retire' from Navy life and move on! I know i've seen at >least one other .MIL address post to this list at some point though. > > Jeff > >P.S. what's your background since you obviously know something about >Navy rates? >-- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82 ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Sun Feb 4 20:34:24 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Anyone ever heard of... References: Message-ID: <011701c08f1c$27f5a480$71f2fea9@dellhare> Data General created a separate business unit in the mid '70s called the Commercial Systems group to market systems to business VARs and end users. Previously DG tried to sell hardware/software on technical merits rather than a an overall "business solution" basis. DG sold pre-packaged hardware configurations along with proprietary Interactive COBOL or Business BASIC, and called the major products the "CS" line. This designation had nothing to do with the type of computer that came with a pre-determined configuration, only a crude approximation of the relative power or number of users supported within a given line. By 1982 DG eventually ended up with following CS product line: product processor # of users CS/10 microNova 1 CS/20 microNova 1 CS/30 microNova 3 CS/40 Nova 3 9 CS/50 Nova 4 15 CS/60 S/130 25 CS/70 C/150 32 CS/100 S/20 32 CS/200 S/140 64 Within each product line were sub-groups, usually given the designation "Cx", where "x" was the relative power, or number of users supported, by that sub-group. For example, the CS/40 had a C1, C3, C5 and C9 configuration which supported the corresponding number of users. DG originally used its RDOS operating system in 1975 for the first CS/40 system (yes, they started out with the CS/40 system as their first delivery). Marketing then said that a "real time system should not be used for business applications", so they chanced the name to ICOS (Interactive COBOL Operating System) which was the same as RDOS but with a different boot message. (Okay, hard-core Nova'files know that there was one "control/D" enhancement put on the operating system.) After 1981 DG finally decided to ship all CS systems with RDOS officially again as support of two "different" systems was not worth the marketing benefits (which were found to be none). The high-end CS/200 systems used AOS rather than RDOS. Most CS systems were DG ICOBOL based, but Business Basic was sometimes used. ICOBOL is still a useful product over 25 years later (and our company still provides products and services for this and other DG markets). The DG ICOBOL language was an extension of ANSI '74, and compiled to an intermediate code. This code was then "executed" by an interpreter written for each of the different DG hardware platforms. Program object files could be used on any DG computer without any changes or modifications whatsoever, as could the data files. It worked and overall worked quite well. Does this concept sound familiar to some "new technology" language touted today? Bruce Ray Wild Hare Computer Systems bkr@WildHareComputers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 11:10 AM Subject: Anyone ever heard of... > > Anyone ever heard of a Data General machine from the 70s with the model > designation CS-20 or CS-30? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Feb 4 20:39:38 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <737.435T1550T13695579optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010205023938.86253.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Bill Pechter skrev: > > >A friend of mine worked on the port of AT&T SVR4 to the Amiga. > > I'd love to get my hands on AMIX, Amiga SVR4, but it was only distributed on > tape, AFAIK, and the only time I've seen it was on eBay at a rather > exaggerated price, IIRC. While I haven't had an AMIX tape in my hands, ISTR it was on a 150Mb tape, like the ones that plagued Suns until the rise of DAT and 8mm. I don't recall if the X server for it required the Lowell graphics card or merely worked to a reasonable potential with it (TI 34010 chipset, I believe... dredging up very rarely refreshed bits here). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Feb 4 22:44:03 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <000a01c08ebc$9e683840$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <200102050446.f154kmZ12394@grover.winsite.com> >From what I remember of my talks with RJ Mical about this, you are correct. They were suddenly kids in the Sun candy store and Uncle Jack opened up the wallet.... > John Foust wrote: > > I don't particularly remember tools for Sun, but it's possible. > > IIRC, the Amiga team celebrated the fact that Commodore paid for a Sun > system each. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide > http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete > Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 4 23:59:05 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, David Vohs wrote: > Well, I myself an a fellow shipmate stationed at Groton, Connecticut. As > hard as it seems to believe, I have only been in since August the 10th. David, Someone once told me about a huge, gymnasium-sized analog battle simulator somewhere in Groton. It apparently used small replicas of ships that were attached to wires or something and moved around the "ocean". The display was a periscope that came up through the floor and you practiced firing away at the ships. Might you know if this is still in operation? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From archer at topnow.com Mon Feb 5 01:43:49 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: C64 question Message-ID: <3A7E59B5.A4B3F2AB@topnow.com> Okay, I picked up quite a haul for $20: * Commodore 64 in almost-new looking condition, original box * 1541 Disk drive, in original box (but no disk drive manual :( * 1525 Printer, in box * Programmer's Reference Guide * User's Guide * Assorted software and disks * VicModem * Two joysticks * All cables Anyways, hooked it up, wrote a few BASIC programs, ran a couple of the programs supplied, cool. Now the question is, where on earth will I find some key programs -- mostly games (after all, games were its specialty!) but I REALLY want a 6502 assembler like Merlin, and to find connectors to fit the cartridge slot to hang some custom hardware off of and develop driver code for. I'll be careful. :) And if I find it somewhere on the 'net, how to get it into the C64? Has anyone solved that one? I know it's got an RS232 port, so perhaps I could write a small BASIC program to bootstrap in the program at low speed and develop something like an Xmodem download with the downloaded assembler. Just wondering if anyone has a better way to get software from 'net to C64, and knows a good source for same. Maybe a cave full of cartridges like the Atari has exists out there... :) -- Ross From jate at uwasa.fi Mon Feb 5 01:51:00 2001 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: AppleTalk On NeXT Cube In-Reply-To: ; from univac@earthlink.net on Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 11:29:18PM -0600 References: <20010202084628.A925@NTT-F4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <20010205095100.A1302@NTT-F4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 11:29:18PM -0600, Owen Robertson wrote: > > Yes. I have the Developer CD. Doesn't NeXTStep have AppleTalk support built > in? > Buggy version(s) in 3.0 I think. NS is one of the few OS's that I really like. The developer stuff is really beautiful and some of the apps were (and still are) really out there. I have all the Lighthouse stuff, I had Framemaker (I *did* try to buy it but resorted to hacking the license stuff with gdb), Lotus Improv (weird and wonderfull spreadsheet), Altsys Virtuoso and Mathematica. For web browsing Omniweb is the only choice. I have the one and original WorldWideWeb.app by Tim Berners-Lee on some CD. I'd really like to get a NextDimension (and a cube to go with that) -- jht From russ at rbcs.8m.com Mon Feb 5 10:37:06 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <3A7E59B5.A4B3F2AB@topnow.com> Message-ID: I don't have my 128D up (still packed from a move 2 yrs ago) but I have links to some Commode-ore sites that have info, files, etc and one of them is a browser (text based) that is supposed to work out on the internet with a commodore and modem. I'm sure that I saw mention of a way to have the program mailed to you on a C64 format floppy or to a BBS that you could use a common program to download it from. Again, it's been a couple years since I broke mine out but I know there are all sorts of Commodore sites and files on the net. The term/name Brain seems to come to mind... -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ross Archer Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 1:44 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: C64 question Okay, I picked up quite a haul for $20: * Commodore 64 in almost-new looking condition, original box * 1541 Disk drive, in original box (but no disk drive manual :( * 1525 Printer, in box * Programmer's Reference Guide * User's Guide * Assorted software and disks * VicModem * Two joysticks * All cables Anyways, hooked it up, wrote a few BASIC programs, ran a couple of the programs supplied, cool. Now the question is, where on earth will I find some key programs -- mostly games (after all, games were its specialty!) but I REALLY want a 6502 assembler like Merlin, and to find connectors to fit the cartridge slot to hang some custom hardware off of and develop driver code for. I'll be careful. :) And if I find it somewhere on the 'net, how to get it into the C64? Has anyone solved that one? I know it's got an RS232 port, so perhaps I could write a small BASIC program to bootstrap in the program at low speed and develop something like an Xmodem download with the downloaded assembler. Just wondering if anyone has a better way to get software from 'net to C64, and knows a good source for same. Maybe a cave full of cartridges like the Atari has exists out there... :) -- Ross From gregorym at cadvision.com Mon Feb 5 10:36:17 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) References: <20010205023938.86253.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008101c08f91$c39c3c80$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:39 PM Subject: Re: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) > While I haven't had an AMIX tape in my hands, ISTR it was on a 150Mb tape, > like the ones that plagued Suns until the rise of DAT and 8mm. > > I don't recall if the X server for it required the Lowell graphics card > or merely worked to a reasonable potential with it (TI 34010 chipset, I > believe... dredging up very rarely refreshed bits here). IIRC, AMIX will run without the Lowell graphics card, but only in black and white. For a colour X-display, you need the Lowell card, which is about as hard to find as the AMIX tapes and tape drive. I was interested in acquiring Amix a while back, and posted a "WTB" to comp.sys.amiga.unix; I got several replies, so there are copies out there. Cheers, Mark. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 5 12:29:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection In-Reply-To: <000901c08f15$e18be1e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Feb 4, 1 06:49:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 891 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010205/4572c217/attachment.ksh From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Feb 5 12:34:29 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: VMS Manuals Available References: Message-ID: I went to the University of Michigan Property Disposition today, they had a pallet with BOXES of VAX/VMS Manuals available. Also lots of Pathworks stuff. Price is probably negotiable, there wasn't any on them. I picked up a boxed copy of Borland DBASE IV VAX/VMS 1.1 with TK50 & 9-Track media, and a half dozen NeXT mice. They also had lots of interesting HP Apollo workstations, one with just about every SCSI adapter I could identify, and a bunch of Pathworks misc. stuff, for OS/2, Windoze, Mac... From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Feb 5 12:40:57 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke Message-ID: Pointer about NASA computer and launch facilities http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/facilities/lps.htm http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/Ch4-6.html http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-70/shutref/sts-av.html#sts- dps-gpc The computers are called the GPC's. I seem to remember that each shuttle carries a phone book sized volume of the known software bugs/limitations. Many of the problems would require software rewrite which would require recertification so they are left alone. One know bug was/is that the input consoles share a common keyboard buffer, if two persons type simultaneously then you end up with a mixture. There is an ACM article in September 1984 that covers the GPC computers. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Feb 5 12:39:20 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: C64 question Message-ID: >Okay, I picked up quite a haul for $20: Lucky Dog! :-) >Now the question is, where on earth will I find some key >programs -- mostly games (after all, games were its specialty!) >but I REALLY want a 6502 assembler like Merlin, and to find >connectors to fit the cartridge slot to hang some custom hardware >off of and develop driver code for. I'll be careful. :) www.cmdweb.com -- They are a commercial outfit that sells lots of Commodore software/hardware. >And if I find it somewhere on the 'net, how to get it into >the C64? Has anyone solved that one? Yup... There is a cable called an X1541 (there are also a dizzying array of variants) that connects from the PC Parallel port to the SERIAL input on the 1541 drive. There is also a piece of software called Star Commander that will perform the transfers ... See http://sta.c64.org/sc.html for much more information.... Rich B. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 5 12:48:51 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: from Russ Blakeman at "Feb 5, 1 10:37:06 am" Message-ID: <200102051848.KAA09778@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I don't have my 128D up (still packed from a move 2 yrs ago) but I have > links to some Commode-ore sites that have info, files, etc and one of them > is a browser (text based) that is supposed to work out on the internet with > a commodore and modem. I'm sure that I saw mention of a way to have the > program mailed to you on a C64 format floppy or to a BBS that you could use > a common program to download it from. Are you referring to HyperLink? http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/hl/web.html Coming out in full release in the very near future. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Insomniac dyslexic agnostic: "I stay up late wondering if there's a dog" --- From edick at idcomm.com Mon Feb 5 13:42:26 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection References: Message-ID: <001301c08fab$c50b3700$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I haven't looked lately, but I'd recommend a visit to www.pasternack.com . They sell all sorts of connectors, with heavy emphasis on RF types, but still ... Another page you might examine is http://www.conec.com/section9/p2.html Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:29 AM Subject: Re: 3w3 to bnc video connection > > > > Soldering them to a mating socket via some RG59 should work. Crimp 3 bnc's > > Over here, I've only seen those coax inserts as crimp-on types. And the > crimp tool is special and expensive. I don't know if it's possible to > solder them (it is possible to solder some types of crimp connector if > you are careful). > > The connector comes as 3 coax inserts, the empty (size DA) shell and the > hood. All as separate parts. > > The BNC end of the cable is (of course) trivial as solder or crimp > connectors are easy to get. You need 75 Ohm ones (for video), not the > more common 50 ohm ones used for RF and ethernet. Yes, the connectors are > different, and it's not a good idea to use the wrong one -- IIRC the > central pin is a differnt diameter (thinner on the 75 ohm), so a 50 ohm > plug in a 75 ohm socket will damage the socket contact and the reverse > doesn't make a good connection. > > -tony > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 5 14:18:49 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: C64 question Message-ID: If you are looking for C64 and 128 programs, contact me offlist. I bought a complete C128 system and it came with about 300 floppies. They are all labeled and I am sure they would all work, but since I'm an apple user, I never got a round tuit. You could borrow them and make copies/archive them all. -- david +-+- www.nothingtodo.org In a message dated 2/5/01 12:46:05 PM Central Standard Time, r_beaudry@hotmail.com and somebody else wrote: << >Okay, I picked up quite a haul for $20: Lucky Dog! :-) >Now the question is, where on earth will I find some key >programs -- mostly games (after all, games were its specialty!) >but I REALLY want a 6502 assembler like Merlin, and to find >connectors to fit the cartridge slot to hang some custom hardware >off of and develop driver code for. I'll be careful. :) www.cmdweb.com -- They are a commercial outfit that sells lots of Commodore software/hardware. >And if I find it somewhere on the 'net, how to get it into >the C64? Has anyone solved that one? >> From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Feb 5 16:25:56 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: VMS Manuals Available In-Reply-To: from Jason McBrien at "Feb 5, 2001 01:34:29 pm" Message-ID: <200102052225.f15MPu412484@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> > I went to the University of Michigan Property Disposition today, they had a > pallet with BOXES of VAX/VMS Manuals available. Also lots of Pathworks > stuff. Price is probably negotiable, there wasn't any on them. I picked up a > boxed copy of Borland DBASE IV VAX/VMS 1.1 with TK50 & 9-Track media, and a > half dozen NeXT mice. They also had lots of interesting HP Apollo > workstations, one with just about every SCSI adapter I could identify, and a > bunch of Pathworks misc. stuff, for OS/2, Windoze, Mac... I think that's where my VAXstation originated. Wish I was close enough to browse it. I'd love VAX/VMS manuals. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 5 16:47:45 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: VMS Manuals Available In-Reply-To: from "Jason McBrien" at Feb 05, 2001 01:34:29 PM Message-ID: <200102052247.OAA28781@shell1.aracnet.com> > I went to the University of Michigan Property Disposition today, they had a > pallet with BOXES of VAX/VMS Manuals available. Also lots of Pathworks > stuff. Price is probably negotiable, there wasn't any on them. I picked up a Were these three-ring binders, or 8.5"x11" paperbacks? If there the newer paperbacks they'd probably be of use to a lot of people on this list. I've got a V6.1 Wall, it's nice :^) > boxed copy of Borland DBASE IV VAX/VMS 1.1 with TK50 & 9-Track media, and a Drool! > workstations, one with just about every SCSI adapter I could identify, and a > bunch of Pathworks misc. stuff, for OS/2, Windoze, Mac... Hmmm, do they have the Pathworks Mac doc's? I could use those! I use a combo of it, a Ethertalk-to-localtalk converter and Samba to turn my VMS server into a Printserver for my HP5MP. Zane From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Feb 5 17:10:18 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: VMS Manuals Available References: <200102052247.OAA28781@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: They had the complete Pathworks set, as I recall, I'm not sure what version but probably early 90's vintage. Boxed versions w/ manuals for OS/2, Macintosh, DOS/Windows, and the server software, I belive. They also had a bunch of these wierd adapter things, boxes about 5" long, 4" wide and 1" thick, with captive power cables and those odd DEC RJXX Serial ports. Some kind of transceiver? The manuals were mixed orange wall and softcover style. They also had a box of Sun manuals, but it was taped shut so I couldn't tell excatly which they were. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: Re: VMS Manuals Available > > Hmmm, do they have the Pathworks Mac doc's? I could use those! I use a > combo of it, a Ethertalk-to-localtalk converter and Samba to turn my VMS > server into a Printserver for my HP5MP. > > Zane From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 5 16:43:19 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) In-Reply-To: <20010205023938.86253.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2095.436T950T14234267optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Bill Pechter skrev: >> >> >A friend of mine worked on the port of AT&T SVR4 to the Amiga. >> >> I'd love to get my hands on AMIX, Amiga SVR4, but it was only distributed >> on tape, AFAIK, and the only time I've seen it was on eBay at a rather >> exaggerated price, IIRC. >While I haven't had an AMIX tape in my hands, ISTR it was on a 150Mb tape, >like the ones that plagued Suns until the rise of DAT and 8mm. >I don't recall if the X server for it required the Lowell graphics card >or merely worked to a reasonable potential with it (TI 34010 chipset, I >believe... dredging up very rarely refreshed bits here). While I doubt that anyone is running AMIX, I found a slew of AMIX files in the contrib dir on the Gateway vol 2 CD here. Here's the README: These archives are a donation from Klaus Burckert. Klaus currently works at Village Tronic, at was, is and will be responsible for the hardware design of the graphic boards "Domino", "Picasso II", "Mac Picasso" and "Picasso IV". Also he worked a lot on the Ethernet-Board "Ariadne". Since long his hobby was AMIX. Having an A2000 with a GVP Series II SCSI adaptor, he wrote support for this adaptor for AMIX. Also, he wrote about a dozen of very sophisticated X Servers for several graphic boards. Having intented to release this stuff for years, he finally found a place to distribute it on the Gateway! Vol. 2. You can reach Klaus via email: crest@arkon.dontpanic.sub.org Thanks Klaus! The directory contains GVP stuff, an Ariadne driver, X11R4 and R5, and a "SVGA" driver, which supports the following cards: - Domino 32K - Domino 16M - oMniBus - Merlin (in ZorroII mode) - Picasso II (only in linear mode) - Piccolo (in ZorroII mode) - Spectrum (in ZorroII mode) If you want them, tell me and I'll upload them somewhere. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ %blow bash: fg: %blow: no such job From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 5 16:13:18 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <3A7E59B5.A4B3F2AB@topnow.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > I know it's got an RS232 port, so perhaps I could write a small > BASIC program to bootstrap in the program at low speed and develop > something like an Xmodem download with the downloaded assembler. > Just wondering if anyone has > a better way to get software from 'net to C64, and knows a good > source for same. Maybe a cave full of cartridges like the > Atari has exists out there... :) Welcome to the C64 universe: http://www.siconic.com/cgi-bin/links.pl#commodore Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From itq at hetnet.nl Mon Feb 5 12:14:37 2001 From: itq at hetnet.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: transfer HD disk to DD Message-ID: <20010205232642.0F56836C00@pandora.worldonline.nl> Marlene, I can only read your mail when I answer it. I suppose you use a html format. I use Mail and find this format very annoying. Please use plain text in the future. I suppose your email is about floppy disk formats. I have copied DEC PDP-11 hard disks to DD files ( a sort of tape). Wim ---------- > Van: Miniminstrels@aol.com > Aan: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: transfer HD disk to DD > Datum: zondag 4 februari 2001 20:16 > Can you tell me hoe to copy a HD disk tp a DD disk so that I can use it in my PSR6000 ? Marlene. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 5 17:27:16 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) Message-ID: Is it a definite that AMIX would be on tape? I seem to remember seeing it at a local Commodore/Amiga place, thought it was foppies though.. If anyone cares, I can go look.. I'm sure it would still be there, as the guy who runs it actually appreciates history and won't sell anything he has only one of... But he does make copies hehe Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Feb 5 17:47:26 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: VMS Manuals Available Message-ID: <004201c08fce$8181b450$e9799a8d@ajp166> >Were these three-ring binders, or 8.5"x11" paperbacks? If there the newer >paperbacks they'd probably be of use to a lot of people on this list. I've >got a V6.1 Wall, it's nice :^) I have the V5 wall, I dumped the binders for smaller packaging so I could keep them. Even then it's over four feet of paper! >> boxed copy of Borland DBASE IV VAX/VMS 1.1 with TK50 & 9-Track media, and a > >Drool! Oh! and I even use that! >> workstations, one with just about every SCSI adapter I could identify, and a >> bunch of Pathworks misc. stuff, for OS/2, Windoze, Mac... I have pathworks V4.1 and V5 stuff. >Hmmm, do they have the Pathworks Mac doc's? I could use those! I use a >combo of it, a Ethertalk-to-localtalk converter and Samba to turn my VMS >server into a Printserver for my HP5MP. Cool. Allison From ryan at hack.net Mon Feb 5 19:25:56 2001 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) References: Message-ID: <007901c08fdb$c13ec4e0$24bcfacf@r> I've got a copy, it's a 150 meg tape and two floppies. -R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:27 PM Subject: Re: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) > Is it a definite that AMIX would be on tape? I seem to remember seeing it at > a local Commodore/Amiga place, thought it was foppies though.. If anyone > cares, I can go look.. I'm sure it would still be there, as the guy who runs > it actually appreciates history and won't sell anything he has only one > of... But he does make copies hehe > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Feb 5 19:41:18 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Looking for book "VMS File System Internals" Message-ID: Trade straight across for "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware Systems Design" or ???? clint From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Feb 5 20:14:04 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: DEC CXA16 manual Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010205181230.023fcdc0@208.226.86.10> Does anyone have the technical manual on the CXA16, 16 port async multiplexor? I've got one that I would like to update the NetBSD driver so that it can talk to it, VMS talks to it just fine but NetBSD recognizes that it is there but can't seem to get either its baud rate set or get interrupts. Also NetBSD only works in DHV mode not DHU mode which would be preferable. --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Feb 5 20:27:15 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection In-Reply-To: <001301c08fab$c50b3700$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: Correct me if I have this all wrong, but isn't the idea to end up with a 3 mini coax thing DEC plug on one end and 3 plain BNC on the other? Those old 3w3 cables are NOT hard to find. Starting from a plain BNC cable does not strike me as the best route. Maybe I will dig a couple out of the cable junk and put them on eBay so I can retire. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Feb 5 22:27:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection References: Message-ID: <000f01c08ff5$2a8b36e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It is a really quick and dirty solution, if you've already got the 3 BNC cables. 9 pieces of shrink tubing and 15 seconds for each of 6 solder joints and one's on his way. However, I get the impression that the 3 BNC's are not the problem. Probably the most sensible thing to do is to remove the cable from the monitor and replace it with a common and ubiquitous cable that can be bought and replaced as needed. If DEC made it it's probably designed to be costly and obtrusive anyway. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 7:27 PM Subject: Re: 3w3 to bnc video connection > Correct me if I have this all wrong, but isn't the idea to end up with a 3 > mini coax thing DEC plug on one end and 3 plain BNC on the other? > > Those old 3w3 cables are NOT hard to find. Starting from a plain BNC cable > does not strike me as the best route. Maybe I will dig a couple out of the > cable junk and put them on eBay so I can retire. > > > From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 5 17:26:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <3A7E59B5.A4B3F2AB@topnow.com> Message-ID: <1286.437T2700T265853optimus@canit.se> Ross Archer skrev: >And if I find it somewhere on the 'net, how to get it into >the C64? Has anyone solved that one? >I know it's got an RS232 port, so perhaps I could write a small >BASIC program to bootstrap in the program at low speed and develop >something like an Xmodem download with the downloaded assembler. >Just wondering if anyone has >a better way to get software from 'net to C64, and knows a good >source for same. Maybe a cave full of cartridges like the >Atari has exists out there... :) Try to have a look in ftp.funet.fi:/pub/cbm/crossplatform/transfer/. If you've really got an RS-232 interface, try a nullmodem and Over5 (available both in Amiga and Linux versions, perhaps a Windows port, too), which has a short BASIC RS-232 transfer program listing so that you might download a real terminal emulator for further transfers. In other cases, there are a lot of cables for connecting the 1541 to every kind of computer out there, or as a last-ditch effort, wav-prg (Windows and Linux versions exist) which will output a T64 or binary file as tape signals for recording on datasette and loading on the C64. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 5 17:21:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: <008101c08f91$c39c3c80$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <651.437T900T214585optimus@canit.se> Mark Gregory skrev: >IIRC, AMIX will run without the Lowell graphics card, but only in black and >white. For a colour X-display, you need the Lowell card, which is about as >hard to find as the AMIX tapes and tape drive. I was interested in >acquiring Amix a while back, and posted a "WTB" to comp.sys.amiga.unix; I >got several replies, so there are copies out there. Would the Lowell card be The Artist Formerly Known As A2410? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Your hamster might, despite some encouraging first steps, never be able to fully grasp the concept of Logical Markup. -- The Not So Short Introduction to LaTex2e, "Disadvantages of LaTex" From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 6 07:48:02 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: <651.437T900T214585optimus@canit.se> References: <008101c08f91$c39c3c80$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010206074232.028bd610@pc> At 12:21 AM 2/6/01 +0100, you wrote: >Would the Lowell card be The Artist Formerly Known As A2410? I searched for Richard A. Miner, the guy at U-Lowell who worked on that card. He's now a PhD, Vice President of OrangeImagineering, part of Orange Plc. No e-mail found, though. Neither the card nor Rich look anything like that singer from Minnesota. Many sections of my brain containing Amiga memories are covered in dust and dirt. I remember one mono-ish graphics card that required a special (interlacing?) monitor, and then the Lowell card, but I don't remember if they were the same. - John From ryan at hack.net Tue Feb 6 08:34:43 2001 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) References: <008101c08f91$c39c3c80$0200a8c0@marvin> <4.3.2.7.0.20010206074232.028bd610@pc> Message-ID: <3A800B83.7B3D06EA@hack.net> The former was the A2024, which combined a series of fields into a 4 quadrant display for high resolution stuff... the latter was a TMS-based gfx. accell. card that was pretty interesting back then (IMHO)- certainly for a "home computer". Hi John, Ryan John Foust wrote: > At 12:21 AM 2/6/01 +0100, you wrote: > >Would the Lowell card be The Artist Formerly Known As A2410? > > I searched for Richard A. Miner, the guy at U-Lowell who > worked on that card. He's now a PhD, Vice President of > OrangeImagineering, part of Orange Plc. No e-mail found, > though. Neither the card nor Rich look anything like > that singer from Minnesota. > > Many sections of my brain containing Amiga memories are > covered in dust and dirt. I remember one mono-ish graphics > card that required a special (interlacing?) monitor, and > then the Lowell card, but I don't remember if they were the same. > > - John From optimus at canit.se Tue Feb 6 03:07:02 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <711.437T100T6074025optimus@canit.se> Will Jennings skrev: >Is it a definite that AMIX would be on tape? I seem to remember seeing it at >a local Commodore/Amiga place, thought it was foppies though.. If anyone >cares, I can go look.. I'm sure it would still be there, as the guy who runs >it actually appreciates history and won't sell anything he has only one >of... But he does make copies hehe Please do look. BTW, what is AT&T's stance on SVR4? I doubt they treat it as "abandonware", though I suppose legacy UNIX customers would be more fickle than IBM or DEC users could afford to be. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Feb 6 10:18:43 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: <711.437T100T6074025optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Feb 6, 2001 10:07:02 am" Message-ID: <200102061618.f16GIir14310@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> > Will Jennings skrev: > > >Is it a definite that AMIX would be on tape? I seem to remember seeing it at > >a local Commodore/Amiga place, thought it was foppies though.. If anyone > >cares, I can go look.. I'm sure it would still be there, as the guy who runs > >it actually appreciates history and won't sell anything he has only one > >of... But he does make copies hehe > > Please do look. > BTW, what is AT&T's stance on SVR4? I doubt they treat it as "abandonware", > though I suppose legacy UNIX customers would be more fickle than IBM or DEC > users could afford to be. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! > WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ > BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 The folks who OWN the rights to SVR4 is SCO -- and soon will be Caldera. Perhaps they might be able to do something nice like SCO did to the early pre SysV stuff. I think, because the stuff only runs on Amiga you'd need whoever has the Commodore rights to AMIX as well as SCO/Caldera to allow it to be copied or put on the web. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Tue Feb 6 11:57:22 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Looking for book "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware Systems Design" References: Message-ID: <001c01c09066$4268c400$71f2fea9@dellhare> Does somebody have a copy of the book "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware Systems Design" for $ale? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: Looking for book "VMS File System Internals" > > Trade straight across for "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware > Systems Design" or ???? > > clint > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 6 12:31:28 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Looking for book "VMS File System Internals" In-Reply-To: "from Clint Wolff (VAX collector) at Feb 5, 2001 06:41:18 pm" Message-ID: <200102061831.MAA29424@caesar.cs.umn.edu> A copy of VMS file systems internals is available from borders.com -Lawrence LeMay > > Trade straight across for "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware > Systems Design" or ???? > > clint > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 6 12:34:03 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Looking for book "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware Systems Design" In-Reply-To: <001c01c09066$4268c400$71f2fea9@dellhare> "from Bruce Ray at Feb 6, 2001 10:57:22 am" Message-ID: <200102061834.MAA29429@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Yes, Alibris has a used copy available for $12. www.alibris.com -Lawrence LeMay > Does somebody have a copy of the book "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of > Hardware Systems Design" for $ale? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:41 PM > Subject: Looking for book "VMS File System Internals" > > > > > > Trade straight across for "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware > > Systems Design" or ???? > > > > clint > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Feb 6 12:55:04 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: A2024/Viking Moniterm (was Re: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development)) In-Reply-To: <3A800B83.7B3D06EA@hack.net> Message-ID: <20010206185504.53655.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Ryan K. Brooks" wrote: > The former was the A2024, which combined a series of fields into a 4 > quadrant display for high resolution stuff... > > John Foust wrote: > > I remember one mono-ish graphics card that required a special > >(interlacing?) monitor... You are both right: the Viking Moniterm was a Sun-style 19" mono monitor and a card for the video slot, and the A2024 was a monitor with a 23-pin Amiga video connection and all the necessary goodies inside. I had an A2024 once, I still have the Moniterm. Both use the same driver and the same techique - squeeze out four fields from the Amiga chipset and externally buffer them into one frame that is put up as a 1008x1008 2-bit greyscale image. As long as you didn't try to scroll text across the quarters of the screen, it worked nicely, even for Macintosh emulation. There was a bit of judder if you tried to use a text window across that split. The bits didn't flicker, but the left and right sides would refresh at a visible difference. The A2024 will work with any Amiga. The Moniterm will work with any Amiga that has a video slot (although I never tried it with my A1000 and Rejuvinator ;-) Great stuff if all you wanted was lots of desktop realestate. I used mine while developing text apps - lots of room to edit, compile and test. I even created a flyspeck font (1x2) to run my makes in a 1000-pixel-tall window on the edge of the screen. I could tell from the overall shape of the compiler output if it were done or not and if it was a clean compile or not. If there were errors, I could restore the font to something legible; otherwise, I could run the program from a "normal" window. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 6 13:03:27 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: <200102061618.f16GIir14310@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Feb 6, 1 11:18:43 am" Message-ID: <200102061903.LAA10724@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I think, because the stuff only runs on Amiga you'd need whoever has the > Commodore rights to AMIX as well as SCO/Caldera to allow it to be copied > or put on the web. If Commodore still owned it at the bitter end, very likely Gateway has it now. Amino only bought the license and name, not the trademarks, for those interested. (Gateway isn't *that* stupid, even for a clone manufacturer. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- You can't carve out success without cutting remarks. ----------------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 6 13:22:50 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: <200102061903.LAA10724@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200102061618.f16GIir14310@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010206132144.00ae26d0@pc> At 11:03 AM 2/6/01 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >If Commodore still owned it at the bitter end, very likely Gateway has it >now. Amino only bought the license and name, not the trademarks, for those >interested. (Gateway isn't *that* stupid, even for a clone manufacturer. ;-) That's presuming that this license was listed as an asset that was transferred. This is how ownership or licenses get lost over time. If the lawyer wasn't told to put something on the list, it's lost in limbo. - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 6 13:04:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection In-Reply-To: <000f01c08ff5$2a8b36e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Feb 5, 1 09:27:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1006 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010206/ef1ce783/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 6 13:59:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: 3w3 to bnc video connection References: Message-ID: <001d01c09077$5d484820$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Yes, it's probably as reliable as it gets. That's how they got away with much of what they did with hardware. It was always well tested and proven since it was often generatons out of date when first introduced by DEC. I guess you have to appreciate their determination not to take chances on YOUR hardware. If the cable is already BNC's at the monitor end, then it's easy enough to remove the offending connector from the video card if one doesn't want to buy the required mating connector, which may cost up to $100 or so. It can then be replaced with something, perhaps no connector at all, or perhaps preferably, a common connector with the same shell size, onto which one can ultimately plug a backshell/strain-relief and a mate, to which which the three 75-ohm cables can be soldered. It might be beneficial to fill the backshell with Silastic or hot-glue to serve as a strain relief for the associated coax cables. This can be done VERY neatly if one is willing to take the pains. If it's thought desirable to reopen the assembly at some future date, it would be wise to coat the inside of the backshell with shoe wax to prevent the glue from adhering. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: Re: 3w3 to bnc video connection > > > > It is a really quick and dirty solution, if you've already got the 3 BNC > > cables. 9 pieces of shrink tubing and 15 seconds for each of 6 solder > > joints and one's on his way. > > > > However, I get the impression that the 3 BNC's are not the problem. > > The BNC end is surely the easy end to do. BNC plugs are available just > about anywhere. > > > Probably the most sensible thing to do is to remove the cable from the > > monitor and replace it with a common and ubiquitous cable that can be bought > > I'd assumed that the person wanted to make a cable to use a 'normal' > monitor with some DEC workstation or other. In fact, IIRC, the DEC colour > monitors for these machines had BNC inputs anyway (only). The 3W3 > connector was on the workstation's graphic card. So a DEC monitor, used > on it's 'native' machine, would need this cable. > > > and replaced as needed. If DEC made it it's probably designed to be costly > > and obtrusive anyway. > > Expensive, sure, but well made and reliable in my experience. > > -tony > > From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 6 15:41:33 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Kaypro and Apple Docs and Disks Message-ID: A friend, Milton Blackstone - milton@sciti.com - has a major pile of docs and disks (perhaps 500) for the subject machines. Please contact him directly if interested. - don From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Tue Feb 6 16:25:43 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) References: <200102061618.f16GIir14310@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010206132144.00ae26d0@pc> Message-ID: <007501c0908d$03d73d80$0101010a@pentium2> John Foust wrote: > That's presuming that this license was listed as an asset > that was transferred. This is how ownership or licenses > get lost over time. If the lawyer wasn't told to put something > on the list, it's lost in limbo. I may have something on this in a day or so. As soon as I hear from my contact I'll tell the list. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 6 16:58:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:33 2005 Subject: HP41 data barcode Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 768 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010206/709a4892/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Tue Feb 6 17:35:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: <200102061618.f16GIir14310@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <1255.438T2400T356453optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> Will Jennings skrev: >> >> >Is it a definite that AMIX would be on tape? I seem to remember seeing it >> >at a local Commodore/Amiga place, thought it was foppies though.. If >> >anyone cares, I can go look.. I'm sure it would still be there, as the guy >> >who runs it actually appreciates history and won't sell anything he has >> >only one of... But he does make copies hehe >> >> Please do look. >> BTW, what is AT&T's stance on SVR4? I doubt they treat it as "abandonware", >> though I suppose legacy UNIX customers would be more fickle than IBM or DEC >> users could afford to be. >The folks who OWN the rights to SVR4 is SCO -- and soon will be >Caldera. Perhaps they might be able to do something nice like SCO did >to the early pre SysV stuff. Is Caldera's entire business philosophy buying old, dilapidated software and releasing it for free? >I think, because the stuff only runs on Amiga you'd need whoever has the >Commodore rights to AMIX as well as SCO/Caldera to allow it to be copied >or put on the web. BTW, Atari had an SVR4 port, too, around the same time, running on the TT030. What is the mounty on the Atari version? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 6 18:16:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: HP41 data barcode In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 6, 1 10:58:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010207/6478aaec/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Tue Feb 6 17:39:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: <200102061903.LAA10724@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <740.438T1050T395091optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> I think, because the stuff only runs on Amiga you'd need whoever has the >> Commodore rights to AMIX as well as SCO/Caldera to allow it to be copied >> or put on the web. >If Commodore still owned it at the bitter end, very likely Gateway has it >now. Amino only bought the license and name, not the trademarks, for those >interested. (Gateway isn't *that* stupid, even for a clone manufacturer. ;-) OTOH, Gateway only bought the Amiga Technologies (ESCOM moved the Amiga operation into a company of its own) assets. AMIX could possibly have belonged to Commodore, which was subsequently bought by Tulip. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If a listener nods his head when you're explaining your program, wake him up. From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 6 18:52:06 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: OT question: Military collectors? Message-ID: Sorry, I haven't heard anything about that. But as far as I can guess, they probably got rid of it a long time ago. My guess is that we now use something similar to that, only it's all digital now. I can say this because the Navy likes to be as state of the art as humanly possible. >David, > >Someone once told me about a huge, gymnasium-sized analog battle >simulator >somewhere in Groton. It apparently used small replicas of >ships that were >attached to wires or something and moved around the >"ocean". The display >was a periscope that came up through the floor and >you practiced firing >away at the ships. > >Might you know if this is still in operation? ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82 ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Feb 6 19:47:12 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Control Data 110 Find Message-ID: <018f01c090a7$e587e300$d3711fd1@default> Well I also went over to the warehouse here and got 2 Control Data 110 microcomputers with lots of software (8" disk) and manuals. The guy could not find the drive for them or keyboards. The other guys here got there first so it was not much left that I needed. Also got a large number of different manuals, HP probe parts, handheld terminals, a Mac 180c for parts, Omnibook parts, Sega game gear items, 5 Tandon 8" drives (4 in the box), Mac 6214CD for parts, and other small items. The guy's prices are very low. He has to clean out a 7000 sq ft warehouse full of stuff. I will be going back one more time this week before closes it down and hauls everything to the yards. John Keys From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 6 18:36:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: HP41 data barcode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > Has anyone here ever tried to produce numeric data barcode for the HP41? > > Because I am trying to do so, and I am having problems. > > I know it's bad form to reply to my own messages, but I've done some more > experiments on this. If you have some sort of multiple personality disorder then we'll forgive you. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 6 19:55:58 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga development) In-Reply-To: <740.438T1050T395091optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Feb 7, 1 00:39:21 am" Message-ID: <200102070155.RAA09520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > OTOH, Gateway only bought the Amiga Technologies (ESCOM moved the Amiga > operation into a company of its own) assets. AMIX could possibly have belonged > to Commodore, which was subsequently bought by Tulip. Tulip is a weird one. All they bought was the name, and then promptly allowed it to be diluted by a wild string of office supply parts (a Commodore paper shredder appeared a couple years back) and their inferior line of PC clones. I actually have a "Commodore" PS/2 mouse connected to the 486 laptop. Gateway, on the other hand, holds all the 8-bit rights as well (someone went out and confirmed this). So, if it was part of the assets transferred (John Foust makes a good point, it might not be), then Gateway has it -- they have just about everything else. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Make your own advancement opportunity. Blackmail your boss. ------- From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Feb 6 20:10:49 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Another Apple II clone found (Microcom) for trade/giveaway Message-ID: <002201c090ab$30fbf580$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> I picked this up a few weeks back. Apple II clone. Microcom logo on case. Microcom tags on Eproms.Boots with "Microcom" on screen. Fine shape, can send photos. Even got a Microcom "branded" floppy that goes with it. Floppy has paper tag with Microcom written on it and serial no. All working. Because of space limitations I have to limit myself to what I collect. I have decided to not collect Apple II clones (just collecting those clones would take up quite a bit of space) Up for trade/giveaway ASAP. Would like it to go to a good home where it will be appreciated... don't want $.I collect 197x-198x micros 8-16 bits. Something to add to my collection in exchange would be appreciated. See what I have and my wish list at : http://computer_collector.tripod.com Looking for early Z80-CP/M systems, early trs80 models, Apple III, Next, Lisa (arent we all), Sinclairs other then 1000s... I have lots more to trade...I dont sell - just trade with other collectors. email me if interested. Claude Canuk Computer Collector -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010206/daa7a7f9/attachment.html From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Feb 6 21:04:22 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Looking for book "VMS File System Internals" In-Reply-To: <200102061831.MAA29424@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: Bummer... Someone already snatched it.... Thanks anyway... On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > A copy of VMS file systems internals is available from borders.com > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > Trade straight across for "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware > > Systems Design" or ???? > > > > clint > > > > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 6 22:24:38 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Good Used Computer Book source: Message-ID: I beg to bring to the Attention of the Collectors herein (and the Lurkers also) that another very good URL for used and rare tech books is: www.abebooks.com However I specifcally disclaim and inure myself against anyone exhausting their rent and/or retirement money while using that site. Cheerz John From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Feb 6 23:16:56 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: simple question Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010206211501.01f84eb0@208.226.86.10> Can anyone tell me where pin one of the DALLAS real time clock module should point when installed on a 4000/60 main board ? This is the leading culprit in my dead 4000/60 but I'm not sure I recall how to place it back, and while it seems like the socket indicates one way, its not clear that is the correct way. Thanks, --Chuck From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 6 23:17:06 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Commodore 900 Message-ID: <200102070517.VAA08144@stockholm.ptloma.edu> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1211797980 It breaks my heart -- there is no way I, as a poor med student, can buy this Commodore 900 UNIX server, but if someone out there wants to and would be willing to let me look at one in the flesh ... :-) For information on what one is, see http://www.retrobits.com/ckb/secret/900.html -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- To generalize is to be an idiot. -- William Blake -------------------------- From michael at unixiron.org Wed Feb 7 00:19:03 2001 From: michael at unixiron.org (Michael Kukat) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: simple question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010206211501.01f84eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Hi ! On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Can anyone tell me where pin one of the DALLAS real time clock module > should point when installed on a 4000/60 main board ? This is the leading > culprit in my dead 4000/60 but I'm not sure I recall how to place it back, > and while it seems like the socket indicates one way, its not clear that is > the correct way. Thanks, You _ALWAYS_ install integrated circuits in DIL-cases with Pin 1 (marked by a dot, a flatted edge, or a notch in the chip) to the notch in the socket. If there is no notch in the socket (never seen such), you can look at the solder pads on the board, pin 1 usually differs from the rest. So, if all pads are sqare pads, pin 1 is round or vice versa. ...Michael -- In TV, there are bluescreens to put a faked reality behind a real played scene, in Windows, you sometimes see the real scene, when the fakes go out for lunch. From mrfusion at umbar.vaxpower.org Wed Feb 7 00:32:16 2001 From: mrfusion at umbar.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: simple question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010206211501.01f84eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I'll check mine when i get home isildur On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Can anyone tell me where pin one of the DALLAS real time clock module > should point when installed on a 4000/60 main board ? This is the leading > culprit in my dead 4000/60 but I'm not sure I recall how to place it back, > and while it seems like the socket indicates one way, its not clear that is > the correct way. Thanks, > > --Chuck > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Feb 7 04:30:10 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Good Used Computer Book source: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I beg to bring to the Attention of the Collectors herein (and the Lurkers >also) that another very good URL for used and rare tech books is: > > www.abebooks.com I've used thier network of dealers on more than one occasion. I generally had the book within a couple of days. Excellent source. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Feb 7 04:58:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Classic OS mp3 In-Reply-To: References: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 6, 1 10:58:38 pm Message-ID: Here is a nice link to a humorous MP3 complaining about all OS post Apple Dos. http://mp3.com/deadtroll/ Specifically the selection Every OS sucks http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/1241/1241156.html From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 08:17:02 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Just a test, please ignore Message-ID: Having trouble posting messages. Just wanted to see if it is working. Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 7 09:40:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Searching for PS/2-E (9533-DB7) reference diskette In-Reply-To: <021e01bfbaf1$dba0dae0$c8731fd1@default> References: <20000510051817.22542.qmail@web612.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010207104043.43efa1c4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Ethan, Have you tried FTP'ing into IBM's site? I've had a lot better luck finding stuff that way than by using HTTP and a browser. I can't find the address that I used but I started with the same site that their webpage directs you to. Joe At 09:37 PM 5/10/00 -0500, you wrote: >Have you tried IBM in Germany they still list most of the older set-up and >reference disk that IBM here the States no longer store on their web site ? >I have use it to download a few disk for my old ps/2's. Good Luck John > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Ethan Dicks >To: classiccmp list >Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 12:18 AM >Subject: Searching for PS/2-E (9533-DB7) reference diskette > > >> >> I know it's not _quite_ 10 years old, but it's getting there. The >principle >> of attraction has worked and my IBM quad-PCMCIA card has attracted a >couple >> of hosts - a PS/2-E that it originally came out of. I have been to the >IBM >> support site - no concrete references to the PS-2/E. I have located >reference >> diskettes for all sorts of IBM-brand products, but not the 9533. It's >> distinguishing features include a low-power design with one ISA slot for >this >> quad-PCMCIA card to minimize peripheral draw. Additionally, it uses a >2.5" >> laptop disk (120Mb) and only has one serial port. As shipped from IBM, >there >> was an LCD panel for a monitor, but I've never seen that part in person, >only >> in old ads. >> >> Does anyone have a disk image they can ship me, or a pointer to an image >> somewhere? I'm thinking of turning this into a router box. I have the >> PCMCIA NICs to do it with. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -ethan >> >> >> ===== >> Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to >> vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com >> >> The original webpage address is still going away. The >> permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ >> >> See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >> http://im.yahoo.com/ >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 7 10:14:04 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Orlando Hamfest In-Reply-To: <20000518182727.19634.qmail@web617.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010207111404.43ef8d84@mailhost.intellistar.net> The Orlando hamfest is this weekend. I've told all the CC-list members that I know of in this area but in case I missed anyone I'll announce it here. The 'fest is at the Orange county faigraounds in West Orlando and opens to the public on Friday afternoon and runs through Sunday. I THINK one ticket is good for the whole weekend. I've already bought my ticket and I've got a vendor's pass so I plan on getting there EARLY and spending the whole weekend. Contact me if you need more details. I'll TRY to answer you befoe the weekend. Joe From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 09:20:24 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys Message-ID: Hey gang, I recently changed companies and went from a NT environment to a UNIX shop. While I have decent skills in UNIX, some additional experience certainly wouldn't hurt. So... In order to reinforce my professional standing by learning more UNIX, and to entertain my collecting hobby by doing it on an older system, I drug out one of my old HP 9000/832s and fired it up. The system is curently running HPUX 8.0 Before I screw up anything (which is inevitable), I really need to make a recovery tape. Question: How can I make a COMPLETE backup of the system? Ideally, I'd like to make a bootable tape using my 9-track and then copy EVERYTHING on to additional tapes. The system does have a built-in DAT drive but the 9-track is soooo much more dependable. I've got plenty of hardware so, another possibility would be to create a second bootable disk(s) and copy the files from set of disks to the other. Once again, I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I do have the 10.20 distribution CDs so, even in the event of a serious crash, I could install a new OS. However, I would loose all the other applications that are currently installed. Also... I'm having trouble creating a kernel with networking installed. After being around for a few years, the config files are probably hosed and I don't have enough C programming skills to fix them. So... Does anyone have a copy of the original install media for HPUX 8.0 they'd be willing to part with? Thanks, Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Wed Feb 7 09:58:35 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't run hpux 8 (my experience with hpux starts with 9.0). With newer hpux systems, you can run s/w called ignite/ux which creates bootable recovery tapes..I don't think this works for anything under hpux 10 though. You can run fbackup (asuming it exists in hpux 8) to back everything up, but it wont be bootable..you'd still need something to boot the o/s from. There were some public-domain utilities that I've heard about, that were suppossed to create bootable recovery tapes, in the pre-ignite time-frame. Check one of the hpux s/w depots and see if there is anything still laying around that might support hpux 8. -Bob (btw, I support several big hpux systems running 10.20 and 11). >Hey gang, > >I recently changed companies and went from a NT environment to a >UNIX shop. While I have decent skills in UNIX, some additional >experience certainly wouldn't hurt. > >So... In order to reinforce my professional standing by learning >more UNIX, and to entertain my collecting hobby by doing it on an >older system, I drug out one of my old HP 9000/832s and fired it up. >The system is curently running HPUX 8.0 > >Before I screw up anything (which is inevitable), I really need to >make a recovery tape. Question: How can I make a COMPLETE backup of >the system? > >Ideally, I'd like to make a bootable tape using my 9-track and then >copy EVERYTHING on to additional tapes. The system does have a >built-in DAT drive but the 9-track is soooo much more dependable. > >I've got plenty of hardware so, another possibility would be to >create a second bootable disk(s) and copy the files from set of >disks to the other. Once again, I'm not entirely sure how to do that. > >I do have the 10.20 distribution CDs so, even in the event of a >serious crash, I could install a new OS. However, I would loose all >the other applications that are currently installed. > >Also... I'm having trouble creating a kernel with networking >installed. After being around for a few years, the config files are >probably hosed and I don't have enough C programming skills to fix >them. So... Does anyone have a copy of the original install media >for HPUX 8.0 they'd be willing to part with? > >Thanks, Steve Robertson >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 7 10:31:22 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: from Steve Robertson at "Feb 7, 1 10:20:24 am" Message-ID: <200102071631.IAA09974@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Before I screw up anything (which is inevitable), I really need to make a > recovery tape. Question: How can I make a COMPLETE backup of the system? In all seriousness, is tar supported on that system? On 10.20 and 11.0 I think SAM will do the trick for you. I don't know if SAM is 8.0. Why not # tar cd / and dump it out to tape? Do note that the tape will *not* be bootable. It will, however, probably send it to the built-in DAT. Find out where under /dev the 9-track is and mess with tar's options (like, tar cdf /dev/rmt1 /). But try SAM first. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I believe in getting into hot water; it keeps you clean. -- G.K. Chesterton From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Feb 7 10:46:24 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is a ODE (offline diagnostic env) program called COPYUTIL which will create an image backup of a disk at a glacial pace. You need to run an interactive IPL and do a LS at your ISL> prompt to see if you have it installed. My experience with HPUX begins at 10.0 so I don't know if it dates back to version 8. It might be on your 10.20 CD if you boot from that you could probably still use it to copy your version 8 disk. On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > Hey gang, > > I recently changed companies and went from a NT environment to a UNIX shop. > While I have decent skills in UNIX, some additional experience certainly > wouldn't hurt. > > So... In order to reinforce my professional standing by learning more UNIX, > and to entertain my collecting hobby by doing it on an older system, I drug > out one of my old HP 9000/832s and fired it up. The system is curently > running HPUX 8.0 > > Before I screw up anything (which is inevitable), I really need to make a > recovery tape. Question: How can I make a COMPLETE backup of the system? > > Ideally, I'd like to make a bootable tape using my 9-track and then copy > EVERYTHING on to additional tapes. The system does have a built-in DAT drive > but the 9-track is soooo much more dependable. > > I've got plenty of hardware so, another possibility would be to create a > second bootable disk(s) and copy the files from set of disks to the other. > Once again, I'm not entirely sure how to do that. > > I do have the 10.20 distribution CDs so, even in the event of a serious > crash, I could install a new OS. However, I would loose all the other > applications that are currently installed. > > Also... I'm having trouble creating a kernel with networking installed. > After being around for a few years, the config files are probably hosed and > I don't have enough C programming skills to fix them. So... Does anyone > have a copy of the original install media for HPUX 8.0 they'd be willing to > part with? > > Thanks, Steve Robertson > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > -- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 7 11:27:34 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: from Bob Brown at "Feb 7, 1 09:58:35 am" Message-ID: <200102071727.JAA15032@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > (btw, I support several big hpux systems running 10.20 and 11). We "just" got a L-class 9000 in the server room running HP/UX 11. Nice box. :-) There's also a K-class and I think an E? there also. HP-PA-RISC 2.0, natch. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why, I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse! -- Groucho Marx ------------------- From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Feb 7 12:22:50 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <1286.437T2700T265853optimus@canit.se> References: <3A7E59B5.A4B3F2AB@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3A814C2A.7980.5BD6F3B@localhost> > Ross Archer skrev: > > >And if I find it somewhere on the 'net, how to get it into > >the C64? Has anyone solved that one? > > >I know it's got an RS232 port, so perhaps I could write a small > >BASIC program to bootstrap in the program at low speed and develop > >something like an Xmodem download with the downloaded assembler. Just > >wondering if anyone has a better way to get software from 'net to > >C64, and knows a good source for same. Maybe a cave full of > >cartridges like the Atari has exists out there... :) > > Try to have a look in ftp.funet.fi:/pub/cbm/crossplatform/transfer/. > If you've really got an RS-232 interface, try a nullmodem and Over5 > (available both in Amiga and Linux versions, perhaps a Windows port, > too), which has a short BASIC RS-232 transfer program listing so that > you might download a real terminal emulator for further transfers. In > other cases, there are a lot of cables for connecting the 1541 to > every kind of computer out there, or as a last-ditch effort, wav-prg > (Windows and Linux versions exist) which will output a T64 or binary > file as tape signals for recording on datasette and loading on the > C64. > TMK the C64 serial port isn't really RS232 compliant. In searching thru my archives in regard to Jim Brain I ran across this interesting little historical tid-bit written by Jim Brain and quoting a neighbor of mine Jim Butterfield, another seminal Commodore figure who was also the on-screen tech-man for a mid-eighties TV show on computers called "Bits and Bytes". From: brain@garnet.msen.com (Jim Brain) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: PC's as 64 HD's and the 6522 chip! Date: 7 Apr 1994 13:48:35 GMT Right after I posted about hooking a 6522 VIA up to a PC parallel port to turn the PC into a "char-banger" instead of a "bit-banger", someone posted that they had thought the 6522 had a problem with the shift register. The poster also said that Jim Butterfield had alerted him and others to it. Well, I have been in correspondence with "The Commodore Man", so I asked him to elaborate on the topic. Here is the two responses: > Yes, it's true. Although I didn't get official confirmation of this >long after, when a Spectrum article quoted the designers. > As you know, the first Commodore computers used the IEEE bus to connect to >peripherals such as disk and printer. I understand that these were available >only from one source: Belden cables. A couple of years into Commodore's >computer career, Belden went out of stock on such cables (military contract? >who knows?). In any case, Commodore were in quite a fix: they made >computers and disk drives, but couldn't hook 'em together! > So Tramiel issued the order: "On our next computer, get off that bus. >Make it a cable anyone can manufacture". And so, starting with the VIC-20 >the serial bus was born. It was intended to be just as fast as the >IEEE-488 it replaced. > Technically, the idea was sound: the 6522 VIA chip has a "shift >register" circuit that, if tickled with the right signals (data and clock) >will cheerfully collect 8 bits of data without any help from the CPU. >At that time, it would signal that it had a byte to be collected, and >the processor would do so, using an automatic handshake built into the >6522 to trigger the next incoming byte. Things worked in a similar way >outgoing from the computer, too. > We early PET/CBM freaks knew, from playing music, that there was something >wrong with the 6522's shift register: it interfered with other functions. >The rule was: turn off the music before you start the tape! (The shift >register was a popular sound generator). But the Commodore engineers, >who only made the chip, didn't know this. Until they got into final >checkout of the VIC-20. > By this time, the VIC-20 board was in manufacture. A new chip could >be designed in a few months (yes, the silicon guys had application notes >about the problem, long since), but it was TOO LATE! > A major software rewrite had to take place that changed the VIC- 20 >into a "bit-catcher" rather than a "character-catcher". It called for >eight times as much work on the part of the CPU; and unlike the shift >register plan, there was no timing/handshake slack time. The whole >thing slowed down by a factor of approximately 5 to 6. > There's more (the follow-on C64 catastrophe), but that's where it >happened. --Jim And the saga continues ... > When the 64 came out, the problem VIA 6522 chip had been >replaced by the CIA 6526. This did not have the shift register problem >which had caused trouble on the VIC-20, and at that time it would have >been possible to restore plan 1, a fast serial bus. Note that this would >have called for a redesign of the 1540 disk drive, which also used a VIA. > As best I can estimate - and an article in the IEEE Spectrum magazine >supports this - the matter was discussed within Commodore, and it was >decided that VIC-20 compatibility was more important than disk speed. >Perhaps the prospect of a 1541 redesign was an important part of the >decision, since current inventories needed to be taken into account. > But to keep the Commodore 64 as a "bit-banger", a new problem arose. >The higher-resolution screen of the 64 (as compared to the VIC-20) >could not be supported without stopping the CPU every once in a while. >To be exact: Every 8 screen raster lines (each line of text), the CPU >had to be put into a WAIT condition for 42 microseconds, so as to allow >the next line of screen text and color nybbles to be swept into the chip. >(More time would be needed if sprites were being used). > But the bits were coming in on the serial bus faster than that: aD >a bit would come in about every 20 microseconds! So the poor CPU, frozen >for longer than that, would miss some serial bits completely! > Commodore's solution was to slow down the serial bus even more. >That's why the VIC-20 has a faster serial bus than the 64, even though >the 64 was capable, technically, of running many times faster. > Fast disk finally came into its own with the Commodore 128. --Jim Now someone also told me at one time that they had seen a fastloader that same someone said he thought it was odd that the author of the loader had credited Commodore with the routines. Well, I can hazard a guess that the routines were the ones they had wanted to put in the 6522, but had to scrap due to the 6522 problem. Now I have no idea what the problem is/was, but I am eager to find out. However, I rescind my plans to build something around the 6522 until we find out what the problem is. Jim "Just the Facts" Brain **END QUOTE** The 64 and VIC would have had a faster drive if it wern't for the cables and the chip problems... Probably HP was doing major IEEE-488 sales and it was a strain on the cable manufactuer. IEEE-488 cables nowadays run from $40-$90 new, of course it is a standard 'get' item on my mental thrift store shopping list. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- +-+-+-+-+- Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Feb 7 12:22:50 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: References: <3A7E59B5.A4B3F2AB@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3A814C2A.19817.5BD6F0F@localhost> > I don't have my 128D up (still packed from a move 2 yrs ago) but I > have links to some Commode-ore sites that have info, files, etc and > one of them is a browser (text based) that is supposed to work out on > the internet with a commodore and modem. I'm sure that I saw mention > of a way to have the program mailed to you on a C64 format floppy or > to a BBS that you could use a common program to download it from. > > Again, it's been a couple years since I broke mine out but I know > there are all sorts of Commodore sites and files on the net. The > term/name Brain seems to come to mind... > Wow. I don't know why Cameron or one of you other Commodore guys didn't pick up on this. Jim Brain is/was a seminal figure in C64 users lore. He had/has the CaBooM C64 meta-link search engine and maintained the C64 FAQ as well as the premiere C64 FTP site. IIRC he also ocasionally posted to the list. A few years back he was in a serious car accident which I believe curtailed his activities somewhat. You can find him at: http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/ ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 12:34:18 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys Message-ID: >There is a ODE (offline diagnostic env) program called COPYUTIL I'm not familiar with COPYUTIL and don't recall seeing in on the 10.20 CD. I'll have another look. I've already made a TAR of the entire file system onto tape so, it should be possible to recover almost any files that might get hosed. Of course in order to UN-TAR those files, the system has got to be up and running. Unfortunately, HPUX does not support IGNITE and from what I can tell, the 8.0 version of SAM won't allow me to create a bootable disk. I have searched docs.hp.com and there's lots of info for 10.20 and 11.00 but, nothing that goes back to 8.0. OK... Here's another possibility... What if I make a bootable disk using IGNITE 10.20 (I have a second 832 running 10.20), mount the disk, and then UN-TAR everything from tape on to that disk? NOTE: The biggest reason for not upgrading to 10.20 is that I don't have the ANSI C compiler for 10.20. There's plenty of downloadable software available but, virtually none of it will run without compiling first. It's a real catch-22 situation. You gotta have the C compiler in order to compile a C compiler like GCC. If I'm not mistaken, HP lists the compiler for $1595. I do have the ANSI C compiler for 8.0 so, it's a lot easier to get software to run on that box. Anyone know of an alternate source for the compiler? Thanks Steve, _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 7 13:25:06 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: FYI: BYTE Magazine Issue #1 -- EXTREMELY RARE $175.00!!!!! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010207142506.2567bc4c@mailhost.intellistar.net> I just noticed this on E-bay. The highest bid was $175 and it did not meet the reserve!!!! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 7 13:45:37 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Need help with Grid 386 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010207144537.414762ba@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi, I just picked up a Grid 386 laptop (model 1530) and it has a strange problem. It powers up but dies after a few minutes. It just starts acting flaky and locks up. If you turn it off and back on, the screen stays blank and it beeps but that's all. I have to let it sit for 1/2 hour or so before it works again. It passes all diagnostics before it crashes. I've opened it up and reseated all the removeable ICs. I also checked for overheating but nothing is even getting warm. Does anyone have a copy of the errors that go with the beep code? It has 2 Mb of RAM (8 SIPPs) in it. Which ones are in bank 0 and which ones are in bank 1? This laptop came out of Martin Marietta and has some really cool software on it. It was used to test the gimbal system used for the IR night vision and laser targetting system on the Apache helicopter. The laptop was connected to the gimbal and would read out all the steering commands and the actual positions from the synchro resolvers. This device was a lot more usefull than you would first imagine since cables and connectors that were routed through the gimbal were very prone to intermitant failures and this could be used to pinpoint at exactly what angles the problem occurred. Joe From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 12:57:26 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: More book dealers... Message-ID: I saw the post on Abebooks, and thought I'd chime in :-) They're great, but I now use Bibliofind (www.bibliofind.com). To me, they have a more extensive network of dealers. I've had nothing but good deals from them!! I have no stake in either site, just a happy customer ... Rich B. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 13:04:24 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? Message-ID: Hello.... I have a video card that outputs RGB, but I have no RGB monitor... Not knowing anything about video standards, I ask the following :-) - How hard would it be to build an RGB-to-VGA converter to use my computer's VGA monitor (well, actually capable of 1024x768 non-interlaced)? Does anyone have schematics, or documentation to guide me along? - Would it be easier to convert RGB to composite video? I have several devices that can take composite input.... - Has anyone bought a reasonably cheap (sub-$100 US) RGB-to-VGA converter unit, and been happy with it? If so, where did you get it from? Thanks! Rich B. P.S. I subscribe to the digest, so I cannot reply directly.... From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Feb 7 13:04:57 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: OT: FC AL termination question Message-ID: <14977.40025.805047.851140@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hi folks. Sorry for the off-topic message, but this gang is about the most concentrated body of technical knowledge that I know of. Does anyone here know what a DB-9 FCAL terminator consists of? -Dave McGuire PS - Actually I guess that'd be a DA-9.. From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 13:14:32 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Need help with Grid 386 Message-ID: > This laptop came out of Martin Marietta and has some really cool software on it. It was used to test the gimbal system used for the IR night vision and laser targetting system on the Apache helicopter. It'll come in handy when you get that turrent mounted on your truck :-) Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Feb 7 13:23:58 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: from Steve Robertson at "Feb 7, 2001 01:34:18 pm" Message-ID: <200102071923.f17JNwO16981@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> > NOTE: The biggest reason for not upgrading to 10.20 is that I don't have the > ANSI C compiler for 10.20. There's plenty of downloadable software available > but, virtually none of it will run without compiling first. It's a real > catch-22 situation. You gotta have the C compiler in order to compile a C > compiler like GCC. If I'm not mistaken, HP lists the compiler for $1595. > > I do have the ANSI C compiler for 8.0 so, it's a lot easier to get software > to run on that box. > > Anyone know of an alternate source for the compiler? > > Thanks Steve, There's always the ready built gcc from the net. http://hpux.cs.utah.edu/hppd/hpux/Gnu/gcc-2.95.2 --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 7 13:33:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: HP41 data barcode In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 6, 1 04:36:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 136 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010207/88f22ae6/attachment.ksh From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Wed Feb 7 13:58:21 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You CAN get gnu-CC on hpux without a compiler..look at hpux public domain sites for the downloadable depot. Should be easy to install on 10.20 w/swinstall. -Bob >>There is a ODE (offline diagnostic env) program called COPYUTIL > >I'm not familiar with COPYUTIL and don't recall seeing in on the >10.20 CD. I'll have another look. > >I've already made a TAR of the entire file system onto tape so, it >should be possible to recover almost any files that might get hosed. >Of course in order to UN-TAR those files, the system has got to be >up and running. > >Unfortunately, HPUX does not support IGNITE and from what I can >tell, the 8.0 version of SAM won't allow me to create a bootable >disk. > >I have searched docs.hp.com and there's lots of info for 10.20 and >11.00 but, nothing that goes back to 8.0. > >OK... Here's another possibility... > >What if I make a bootable disk using IGNITE 10.20 (I have a second >832 running 10.20), mount the disk, and then UN-TAR everything from >tape on to that disk? > >NOTE: The biggest reason for not upgrading to 10.20 is that I don't >have the ANSI C compiler for 10.20. There's plenty of downloadable >software available but, virtually none of it will run without >compiling first. It's a real catch-22 situation. You gotta have the >C compiler in order to compile a C compiler like GCC. If I'm not >mistaken, HP lists the compiler for $1595. > >I do have the ANSI C compiler for 8.0 so, it's a lot easier to get >software to run on that box. > >Anyone know of an alternate source for the compiler? > >Thanks Steve, > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 7 14:00:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? In-Reply-To: from "Rich Beaudry" at Feb 7, 1 02:04:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1104 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010207/d343ab35/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Feb 7 14:03:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Need help with Grid 386 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010207144537.414762ba@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: > I just picked up a Grid 386 laptop (model 1530) and it has a strange >problem. It powers up but dies after a few minutes. It just starts acting Grids make me crazy. I have 3 or 4, all in near perfect shape, all power up great, and none have passwords. From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 7 14:24:04 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Searching for PS/2-E (9533-DB7) reference diskette In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010207104043.43efa1c4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Joe wrote: > Ethan, > > Have you tried FTP'ing into IBM's site? I've had a lot better luck > finding stuff that way than by using HTTP and a browser. I can't find the > address that I used but I started with the same site that their webpage > directs you to. > > Joe I think that //ftp.pc.ibm.com/ is still valid. - don > At 09:37 PM 5/10/00 -0500, you wrote: > >Have you tried IBM in Germany they still list most of the older set-up and > >reference disk that IBM here the States no longer store on their web site ? > >I have use it to download a few disk for my old ps/2's. Good Luck John > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Ethan Dicks > >To: classiccmp list > >Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 12:18 AM > >Subject: Searching for PS/2-E (9533-DB7) reference diskette > > > > > >> > >> I know it's not _quite_ 10 years old, but it's getting there. The > >principle > >> of attraction has worked and my IBM quad-PCMCIA card has attracted a > >couple > >> of hosts - a PS/2-E that it originally came out of. I have been to the > >IBM > >> support site - no concrete references to the PS-2/E. I have located > >reference > >> diskettes for all sorts of IBM-brand products, but not the 9533. It's > >> distinguishing features include a low-power design with one ISA slot for > >this > >> quad-PCMCIA card to minimize peripheral draw. Additionally, it uses a > >2.5" > >> laptop disk (120Mb) and only has one serial port. As shipped from IBM, > >there > >> was an LCD panel for a monitor, but I've never seen that part in person, > >only > >> in old ads. > >> > >> Does anyone have a disk image they can ship me, or a pointer to an image > >> somewhere? I'm thinking of turning this into a router box. I have the > >> PCMCIA NICs to do it with. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> -ethan > >> > >> > >> ===== > >> Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > >> vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > >> > >> The original webpage address is still going away. The > >> permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > >> > >> See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > >> http://im.yahoo.com/ > >> > > > > > > From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 14:28:29 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys Message-ID: >From: Bob Brown >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Question for the HPUX guys >Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:58:21 -0600 > >You CAN get gnu-CC on hpux without a compiler..look at hpux public domain >sites for the downloadable depot. > >Should be easy to install on 10.20 w/swinstall. I've used swinstall to install a few of the binaries from those archives but, can't get ANY of them to run. I don't recall the exact error message(s) but, it appears to be a hardware compatability issue. Perhaps, I'll take another look at that option. Thanks, Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From louiss at gate.net Wed Feb 7 14:35:12 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200102072035.PAA101970@shuswap.gate.net> Well, first you should find some faqs and info on video standards and read them. Here are a few basics. RGB is not a single type of video. It just means separate color outputs. It is generally divided into analog and digital. VGA is an example of analog, CGA is an example of digital. There are other kinds of analog and digital as well. Some analog RGB use scan rates much lower than VGA, but are otherwise similar. This is the case with Amiga RGB, for example. In that case, scan doublers are available to convert the video to VGA. To know the answer to your question, you have to identify exactly what type of video output you have. Then, whether and how it could be converted can be addressed. Generally, the best solution is to get the right kind of monitor for the video you have. There are some monitors that can handle many types of video, and these are very useful for old computer enthusiasts. Louis On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:04:24 -0500, Rich Beaudry wrote: >Hello.... > >I have a video card that outputs RGB, but I have no RGB monitor... Not >knowing anything about video standards, I ask the following :-) > >- How hard would it be to build an RGB-to-VGA converter to use my computer's >VGA monitor (well, actually capable of 1024x768 non-interlaced)? Does >anyone have schematics, or documentation to guide me along? > >- Would it be easier to convert RGB to composite video? I have several >devices that can take composite input.... > >- Has anyone bought a reasonably cheap (sub-$100 US) RGB-to-VGA converter >unit, and been happy with it? If so, where did you get it from? > >Thanks! > >Rich B. > >P.S. I subscribe to the digest, so I cannot reply directly.... > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 7 14:39:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? References: Message-ID: <000d01c09146$18dabae0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I'll bet you do have an RGB monitor, unless it's monochrome or composite-input. Before I can answer your questions, I have to ask a few of my own. First of all, what, EXACTLY, do you mean by "RGB monitor?" The only popular video cards I've seen made after about 1982 all had R, G, and B outputs, along with a couple of sync signals. The PC "color" board had compisite outputs as well, but R, G, and B were there. RGB is not a standard. In fact, it's not even a slightly adequate description of a monitor, since the only ones other than composite-input types that are out there in quantity are monochrome. Let's face it, if you want color to appear on your screen, you've got to send its constituents into the monitor somehow. The signals that need to flow into the typical monitor are red, green, blue, H-sync, and V-sync. There are several ways of getting them there, ranging from the 3 BNC's commonly used in RS343 (with composite-sync on green) applications, to the wierd hookups used by workstation manufacturers afraid you might hook up the wrong devices and break something. How hard it is to build an appropriate adapter depends on what the monitor expects to see as its driving signals, both in terms of frequency, and in terms of polarity. If you have a fixed frequency monitor made for something other than your application, I advise you to BEG someone to take it away. Either that or just toss it, because at 50 cents an hour, you probably can't make it work with a year's pay. A nice new, beautiful and bright monitor in the 10" range costs <$300. You'll spend that much on aspirin, Malox, and prune juice, and maybe on whisky as well. If you feed each sync output from your video adapter through an XOR gate with a switch to ground attached to a pullup to Vcc at one input and the sync at the other, that will handily switch the sync polarity easily enough. If your frequency is wrong, plan to expend about 10 man-years rewriting the ROM on your video adapter to produce the right frequency. You can probably program the sync polarity that way as well. If you're wanting to impose sync on green, that's pretty straightforward and I can provide you with a schematic that uses a 5-transistor array to do the entire job very well. It won't fix frequency problems, though. Let me know what sort of monitor and adapter you're trying to mate up and perhaps I can help you. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Beaudry" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? > Hello.... > > I have a video card that outputs RGB, but I have no RGB monitor... Not > knowing anything about video standards, I ask the following :-) > > - How hard would it be to build an RGB-to-VGA converter to use my computer's > VGA monitor (well, actually capable of 1024x768 non-interlaced)? Does > anyone have schematics, or documentation to guide me along? > > - Would it be easier to convert RGB to composite video? I have several > devices that can take composite input.... > > - Has anyone bought a reasonably cheap (sub-$100 US) RGB-to-VGA converter > unit, and been happy with it? If so, where did you get it from? > > Thanks! > > Rich B. > > P.S. I subscribe to the digest, so I cannot reply directly.... > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 7 15:16:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? References: <200102072035.PAA101970@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <001401c0914b$38cce260$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I've never seen an RGB-VGA adapter that cost more than $7. I suppose they could cost more, but I generally buy them at computer surplus stores where they cost about $2. All these do is route the signals from one sort of connector to another, however, and IF you have some strange sort of video card, it's not guaranateed to work, since there are may different timing parameters that have to be satisfied. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Schulman" To: ; "Rich Beaudry" Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 1:35 PM Subject: Re: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? > Well, first you should find some faqs and info on video > standards and read them. Here are a few basics. > > RGB is not a single type of video. It just means separate > color outputs. It is generally divided into analog and > digital. VGA is an example of analog, CGA is an example of > digital. > > There are other kinds of analog and digital as well. Some > analog RGB use scan rates much lower than VGA, but are > otherwise similar. This is the case with Amiga RGB, for > example. In that case, scan doublers are available to > convert the video to VGA. > > To know the answer to your question, you have to identify > exactly what type of video output you have. Then, whether > and how it could be converted can be addressed. > > Generally, the best solution is to get the right kind of > monitor for the video you have. There are some monitors > that can handle many types of video, and these are very > useful for old computer enthusiasts. > > Louis > > On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:04:24 -0500, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > >Hello.... > > > >I have a video card that outputs RGB, but I have no RGB monitor... Not > >knowing anything about video standards, I ask the following :-) > > > >- How hard would it be to build an RGB-to-VGA converter to use my computer's > >VGA monitor (well, actually capable of 1024x768 non-interlaced)? Does > >anyone have schematics, or documentation to guide me along? > > > >- Would it be easier to convert RGB to composite video? I have several > >devices that can take composite input.... > > > >- Has anyone bought a reasonably cheap (sub-$100 US) RGB-to-VGA converter > >unit, and been happy with it? If so, where did you get it from? > > > >Thanks! > > > >Rich B. > > > >P.S. I subscribe to the digest, so I cannot reply directly.... > > > > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 7 15:25:11 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: <200102071631.IAA09974@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Feb 07, 2001 08:31:22 AM Message-ID: <200102072125.NAA24951@shell1.aracnet.com> > In all seriousness, is tar supported on that system? On 10.20 and 11.0 I > think SAM will do the trick for you. I don't know if SAM is 8.0. Why not It's been years since I've touched a HP-UX 8 system (haven't really touched HP-UX in years for that matter. I think that SAM is on 8.0 though it might not have shown up till 9 (I know for a fact it's on 9). For the original poster, if you're trying to improve your skills on HP-UX you're best off running the same version you're running at work. HP seems to like to make fairly major changes between versions. Zane From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Feb 7 16:07:10 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:34 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: <200102072125.NAA24951@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Feb 7, 2001 01:25:11 pm" Message-ID: <200102072207.f17M7AX17486@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> > > In all seriousness, is tar supported on that system? On 10.20 and 11.0 I > > think SAM will do the trick for you. I don't know if SAM is 8.0. Why not > > It's been years since I've touched a HP-UX 8 system (haven't really touched > HP-UX in years for that matter. I think that SAM is on 8.0 though it might > not have shown up till 9 (I know for a fact it's on 9). > > For the original poster, if you're trying to improve your skills on HP-UX > you're best off running the same version you're running at work. HP seems > to like to make fairly major changes between versions. > > Zane I know Sam was in HP-UX8... I think it may have even been in 7.x. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Feb 7 16:10:58 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is more information on the copyutil from the HP web site. I got the impression from a different article that it only works on the 8xx servers, but not on the 7xx workstations. You should be OK on your 832's. Problem Description How do I use copyutil to create an image of my disk on tape? Configuration Info Operating System - HP-UX 10.0 Hardware System - K200 Solution To create an image of your disk on tape using copyutil, do the following: 1. Insert the support media into the drive. 2. To execute COPYUTIL, boot to ISL, then type: ISL> ode copyutil This gives you a copyright screen and then you get a ISL-CMD prompt. 3. At the prompt, type: ISL-CMD> copyutil This gives you another copywrite screen and then scans the system's io bus. 4. When you get a COPYUTIL prompt, you can type: UTILINFO for a list of options, or just type: COPYUTIL> backup This will prompt you to select the disk to backup and the tape that will be written to. 5. After the backup is made, you will come back to a COPYUTIL prompt, you can type EXIT here. 6. To recover from tape, get back to the COPYUTIL prompt following the above steps. then type: COPYUTIL> restore This will prompt you to select the tape device and the disk to restore to. For more detailed information please order the Support Media User's Manual, HP part number 92453-90010. On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > >There is a ODE (offline diagnostic env) program called COPYUTIL > > I'm not familiar with COPYUTIL and don't recall seeing in on the 10.20 CD. > I'll have another look. > > I've already made a TAR of the entire file system onto tape so, it should be > possible to recover almost any files that might get hosed. Of course in > order to UN-TAR those files, the system has got to be up and running. > > Unfortunately, HPUX does not support IGNITE and from what I can tell, the > 8.0 version of SAM won't allow me to create a bootable disk. > > I have searched docs.hp.com and there's lots of info for 10.20 and 11.00 > but, nothing that goes back to 8.0. > > OK... Here's another possibility... > > What if I make a bootable disk using IGNITE 10.20 (I have a second 832 > running 10.20), mount the disk, and then UN-TAR everything from tape on to > that disk? > > NOTE: The biggest reason for not upgrading to 10.20 is that I don't have the > ANSI C compiler for 10.20. There's plenty of downloadable software available > but, virtually none of it will run without compiling first. It's a real > catch-22 situation. You gotta have the C compiler in order to compile a C > compiler like GCC. If I'm not mistaken, HP lists the compiler for $1595. > > I do have the ANSI C compiler for 8.0 so, it's a lot easier to get software > to run on that box. > > Anyone know of an alternate source for the compiler? > > Thanks Steve, > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > -- From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 16:31:07 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys Message-ID: >For the original poster, if you're trying to improve your skills on HP-UX >you're best off running the same version you're running at work. HP seems >to like to make fairly major changes between versions. I suppose almost any flavor of UNIX would be OK for improving one's skills and if that were the only goal, I'd probably just fire up one of my Linux boxes. I guess I could use an old 386/Linux box and fulfill my classic collecting urges at the same time... Naw... A big ol honkin 9000 with 3 racks full of disks and twin 9-track tape drives is a whole lot cooler... Shame I live in South Florida, I'm sure you guys that live in more northern climates could use the extra heat I'm generating :-) See Ya, Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Feb 7 16:35:41 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys Message-ID: >From: Paul Thompson >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Question for the HPUX guys >Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:10:58 -0600 (CST) > > >Here is more information on the copyutil from the HP web site. >I got the impression from a different article that it only works on the 8xx >servers, but not on the 7xx workstations. You should be OK on your 832's. >Problem Description > >How do I use copyutil to create an image of my disk on tape? > Very Cool...Thanks much Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From tonyt at igateway.net Wed Feb 7 17:41:46 2001 From: tonyt at igateway.net (Tony Torgerud) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Sun 4/470 CPU/MEM needed Message-ID: <3A81DD3A.AD12950@igateway.net> I have 2 complete sparcserver 470s, with all the highend components. Tony From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 7 16:33:32 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <3A814C2A.7980.5BD6F3B@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > The 64 and VIC would have had a faster drive if it wern't for the > cables and the chip problems... You mean if it wasn't for poor engineering and stupid marketing decisions. Now I know why I laughed at Commodore owners all those years ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From elvey at hal.com Wed Feb 7 18:06:40 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: simple question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010206211501.01f84eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <200102080006.f1806ff00638@civic.hal.com> Hi Chuck If you are not sure of the polarity of the socket, you can power up with the part removed. This way you can check the power leads. As I recall, most of the Dallas parts have 5 volts on the highest numbered pin and gound at the other corner. If you are putting a new clock in, you may need to cause the clock to start. Most are shipped in a disabled mode and require a write to one of the control registers to start them. Check a Dallas spec sheet. Dwight Chuck McManis wrote: > Can anyone tell me where pin one of the DALLAS real time clock module > should point when installed on a 4000/60 main board ? This is the leading > culprit in my dead 4000/60 but I'm not sure I recall how to place it back, > and while it seems like the socket indicates one way, its not clear that is > the correct way. Thanks, > > --Chuck From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 7 18:08:18 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Sun 4/470 CPU/MEM needed In-Reply-To: <3A81DD3A.AD12950@igateway.net> "from Tony Torgerud at Feb 7, 2001 05:41:46 pm" Message-ID: <200102080008.SAA03369@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Do you have board/part numbers? -Lawrence LeMay > I have 2 complete sparcserver 470s, with all the highend components. > > Tony > From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 7 17:03:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: FYI: BYTE Magazine Issue #1 -- EXTREMELY RARE $175.00!!!!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010207142506.2567bc4c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Joe wrote: > I just noticed this on E-bay. The highest bid was $175 and it did not > meet the reserve!!!! This is just silly. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 7 17:48:03 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: IBM PC needs new home Message-ID: Someday, IBM PC's will be worth big bucks. Just not tomorrow, or even next week. This one comes with a lot of collateral material that will put it above others of its ilk in future years. Please reply to original sender. Reply-to: petesam@worldnet.att.net Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:17:30 -0500 From: Pete Sammis To: sellam@vintage.org Subject: Old computer stuff I have an old IBM purchased in 1983. I have the original sales receipt (it cost $4000.00) , also all the IBM instruction guides that came with it, a VisiCorp personal Software guide, Friendly Ware PC Introductory Set, assorted used diskettes, and a diskette and instruction book for Master Type program by Lightning Software. I also have a printer purchased at the same time, and a monochrome monitor. From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 7 19:15:06 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Time Article - Computer Recycling References: <3A81DD3A.AD12950@igateway.net> Message-ID: <3A81F31A.A8E9B1B8@rain.org> A friend of mine just sent me this URL that talks about scrapping out old computers. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,98002,00.html Maybe we all need to write them and indicate some older computers have some value besides just raw materials! From vaxman at qwest.net Wed Feb 7 19:16:21 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Looking for book "VMS File System Internals" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I found a program onaweb called 'getvms' which allows a *nix machine to dance through the ODS2 filesystem, thus, I no longer need the book... I am attempting to read all the listings from my VMS 5.5.1 listings CDs for archival purposes... clint On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > Trade straight across for "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware > Systems Design" or ???? > > clint > > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 7 19:39:51 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Feb 7, 1 02:33:32 pm" Message-ID: <200102080139.RAA09616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > The 64 and VIC would have had a faster drive if it wern't for the > > cables and the chip problems... > > You mean if it wasn't for poor engineering and stupid marketing decisions. > Now I know why I laughed at Commodore owners all those years ;) Elitist. :-P Since my Power Mac 7300's HD had a serious mechanical failure this morning, I am now back on the 128D's console. Feels good to have " on SHIFT-2 ... doesn't feel good to realise that the $130 I paid for that drive is wasted, along with 4MB of irreplaceable data (the CD-RW burner I bought for backups ironically will arrive sometime next week). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If G. B. Shaw were a surrealist, he'd be writing plays about ghoti. -------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 7 22:11:50 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Need help with Grid 386 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010207231150.2697c278@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:14 PM 2/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >> This laptop came out of Martin Marietta and has some really cool >software on it. It was used to test the gimbal system used for the IR night >vision and laser targetting system on the Apache helicopter. > >It'll come in handy when you get that turrent mounted on your truck :-) Not as handy as the Hellfire missiles that go with it. They should be just the ticket for clearing the tourists off the road and out of my way. :-) BTW I fixed the laptop and I've been using it. It also has the DATA I/O PromLink software on it. Joe From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 7 19:49:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Commodore 900 In-Reply-To: <200102070517.VAA08144@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <518.439T800T1693953optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1211797980 >It breaks my heart -- there is no way I, as a poor med student, can >buy this Commodore 900 UNIX server, but if someone out there wants to >and would be willing to let me look at one in the flesh ... :-) It's that Z8000(0?) based contraption, isn't it? That must be where The Amiga 2000 got its rather spacious but hideous case. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From russ at rbcs.8m.com Wed Feb 7 23:30:13 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Need help with Grid 386 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010207231150.2697c278@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Hellfires and TOWs are some bad ass missiles - I worked with some grunt artillery soldiers while I was stationed at Nellis AFB in the late 70's as a tactical missile systems tech working on all sorts of air launched conventional missiles, smart bombs and general munitions. I also worked with a lot of defense contractors when they developed and asessed new systems on our bombing range in the desert. I worked with some really neat equipment for the (then) new IR version of the AGM-65 Maverick with Hughes Aircraft. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:12 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need help with Grid 386 At 02:14 PM 2/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >> This laptop came out of Martin Marietta and has some really cool >software on it. It was used to test the gimbal system used for the IR night >vision and laser targetting system on the Apache helicopter. > >It'll come in handy when you get that turrent mounted on your truck :-) Not as handy as the Hellfire missiles that go with it. They should be just the ticket for clearing the tourists off the road and out of my way. :-) BTW I fixed the laptop and I've been using it. It also has the DATA I/O PromLink software on it. Joe From archer at topnow.com Thu Feb 8 00:56:29 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question References: <200102080139.RAA09616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A82431D.34CB97A7@topnow.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > The 64 and VIC would have had a faster drive if it wern't for the > > > cables and the chip problems... > > > > You mean if it wasn't for poor engineering and stupid marketing decisions. > > Now I know why I laughed at Commodore owners all those years ;) > > Elitist. :-P Revisionist too. :) I remember having my C64 when the IBM PC first came out. Minimal graphical capabilities, beep-bleep sound, and ridiculous price for its capabilities (it wasn't even significantly faster, and if you were doing anything like a game, it was grossly inferior.) Contrast that with any C64/C128, with real multi-voice sound capability, multiple "sprite" graphics, and frankly adequate speed for games of that era, and a price that was rock-bottom by comparison. Sure the drives sucked rocks(!!!), and their marketing was even worse. I think in all the years Commodore existed, I saw ONE TV ad, and it was aiming the Amiga for the business and "serious application" market. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!!! If they had called themselves "Commodore Game Machines" and stuck to fancy silicon coprocessors, they would be today's Playstation. :) In my incredibly humble opinion, of course. :) -- Ross > > Since my Power Mac 7300's HD had a serious mechanical failure this morning, > I am now back on the 128D's console. Feels good to have " on SHIFT-2 ... > doesn't feel good to realise that the $130 I paid for that drive is wasted, > along with 4MB of irreplaceable data (the CD-RW burner I bought for backups > ironically will arrive sometime next week). > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- If G. B. Shaw were a surrealist, he'd be writing plays about ghoti. -------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Feb 8 01:23:57 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <3A82431D.34CB97A7@topnow.com> from "Ross Archer" at Feb 07, 2001 10:56:29 PM Message-ID: <200102080723.AAA32460@calico.litterbox.com> > Sure the drives sucked rocks(!!!), and their marketing was even worse. > I think in all the years Commodore existed, I saw ONE TV ad, and it > was aiming the Amiga for the business and "serious application" > market. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!!! Huh? Do you not remember the ads in Newsweek for the 64 and vicmodems, showing how great telecomputing was, or the TV add with the classical music playing on the 64 in the background? > > -- Ross > > > > > > > Since my Power Mac 7300's HD had a serious mechanical failure this morning, > > I am now back on the 128D's console. Feels good to have " on SHIFT-2 ... > > doesn't feel good to realise that the $130 I paid for that drive is wasted, > > along with 4MB of irreplaceable data (the CD-RW burner I bought for backups > > ironically will arrive sometime next week). > > > > -- > > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > > -- If G. B. Shaw were a surrealist, he'd be writing plays about ghoti. -------- > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Thu Feb 8 07:39:13 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Need help with Grid 386 References: <3.0.1.16.20010207231150.2697c278@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <002501c091d4$86954e40$0264640a@mediaone.net> > > BTW I fixed the laptop and I've been using it. It also has the DATA I/O > PromLink software on it. Care to share? What was the problem? how did you fix it. Francois > > Joe > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Feb 8 10:33:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <3A82431D.34CB97A7@topnow.com> Message-ID: <20010208163324.15051.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > You mean if it wasn't for poor engineering and stupid marketing decisions. It was once said that of Commodore was selling sushi, they'd call it "cold, raw, dead fish." But Marketing aside, there _were_ a bunch of stupid engineering decisions, well documented by R.J. Mikal in his "Commodore Deathbed Vigil" tape. It didn't matter who was at the helm, many engineering decisions were driven by stock on hand to deplete remnants of previous products rather than sell off the assets at a loss and use more modern (and expensive) components. The two that come to mind were the 2114s in the VIC-20 (they apparently had metric tons of them left-over from the PETs - Jack Tramiel said he didn't care how much memory the new computer had, as long as they used up those chips), and the case for the A4000 (*after* the motherboard was finished Medhi Ali (the LBF) told the engineers to redesign it to fit the warehouse of PC cases they had from a former Intel-based product, delaying the launch *substantially*) It was either one or two years before they went bankrupt that they broke the Billion Dollar mark in sales. They ended $500M in the hole. There was a lot of stupidity going on behind the scenes. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Feb 8 13:59:44 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: New version of the Dec field guide for the Palm References: <200102080139.RAA09616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3A82431D.34CB97A7@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3A82FAB0.AE@xs4all.nl> Hello All, A new update of the Dec field Guide for the Palm III/V/VII is available upon request. For those who did request a copy earlier, no need to reply, you will get it automatically. Changes in this version: - included references to the document names - cosmetic changes - more product names - web page reference to the maintained copy by Megan Gentry This version does only contains the Dec stuff, the non Dec stuff will come in a later update. Outstanding enhancements: - micronotes - more A/G/M card series & descriptions If you want a copy, send me an email and it will be send to you. Regards, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 8 10:50:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <20010208163324.15051.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > You mean if it wasn't for poor engineering and stupid marketing decisions. Actually, I said that ;) Sorry, Cam! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 8 12:43:52 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Feb 8, 1 08:50:14 am" Message-ID: <200102081843.KAA10668@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > You mean if it wasn't for poor engineering and stupid marketing decisions. > > Actually, I said that ;) > > Sorry, Cam! S'okay, I agree with the marketing part anyway. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- We only pretend to have standards. -- Unknown producer, ABC-TV ------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 8 13:00:20 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: New version of the Dec field guide for the Palm In-Reply-To: <3A82FAB0.AE@xs4all.nl> References: <200102080139.RAA09616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3A82431D.34CB97A7@topnow.com> Message-ID: >A new update of the Dec field Guide for the Palm III/V/VII is available >upon request. For those who did request a copy earlier, no need to Any chance of it working on earlier Palm's? This is starting to sound good. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 8 13:09:59 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Places to go in South Carolina? Message-ID: I'm getting ready to head out to South Carolina and am wondering if anyone knows of any good places to check out in South Carolina for DEC, Sun, or SGI related gear? For DEC stuff I'm interested in all ages, for Sun S-Bus or newer, and for SGI stuff pretty new. Of course since I'm flying out there I won't have room for anything big (of course unfortuantly what I'm really looking for Sun wise is a nice monitor, which I wouldn't want to have to ship). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Feb 8 13:11:36 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: New version of the Dec field guide for the Palm In-Reply-To: <3A82FAB0.AE@xs4all.nl> References: <200102080139.RAA09616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3A82431D.34CB97A7@topnow.com> <3A82FAB0.AE@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Will this only work on 'Palm's? Any options for Windows CE running on an HP Jornada 680? -Bob >Hello All, > >A new update of the Dec field Guide for the Palm III/V/VII is available >upon request. For those who did request a copy earlier, no need to >reply, you will get it automatically. > >Changes in this version: > - included references to the document names > - cosmetic changes > - more product names > - web page reference to the maintained copy by Megan Gentry > >This version does only contains the Dec stuff, the non Dec stuff >will come in a later update. > >Outstanding enhancements: > - micronotes > - more A/G/M card series & descriptions > >If you want a copy, send me an email and it will be send to you. > >Regards, > >Ed >-- >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: >zakkenvullers >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From celt at chisp.net Thu Feb 8 14:02:33 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (/mpm) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Quest for Apple II Red Book References: Message-ID: <3A82FB59.703@chisp.net> Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > I want to begin my quest for a copy of the Apple II "Red Book." > > If anyone has a copy and can tell me if it has an ISBN number on it, and > what that number is, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > ClubWin! Group 1 > Collector of Classic Computers > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /*****************************************/ The Red Book was an "internal" document, (at the time) available only to Apple engineers and a few select dealers. IIRC, it was written by Woz as a reference for Apple's engineering dept. Someone (Dr. Tom of comp.sys.apple2 fame (or infamy, depending on your POV)) recently scanned the entire thing and posted it on his website. If you're interested, I'll see if I can dig up the URL and post it here. /mpm From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Feb 8 14:17:25 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Need help with Grid 386 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010207144537.414762ba@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On 07-Feb-2001 Joe wrote: > Hi, > > I just picked up a Grid 386 laptop (model 1530) and it has a strange > problem. It powers up but dies after a few minutes. It just starts > acting flaky and locks up. If you turn it off and back on, the screen > stays blank and it beeps but that's all. I have to let it sit for 1/2 > hour or so before it works again. This feels like a problem with the CMOS battery. However, I don't know much about GRiDs (YET! I crave a Pen-based GRiD!) so I could be very wrong. -Philip From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Feb 8 14:20:19 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 07-Feb-2001 Tony Duell wrote: > The main problem here are the scan rates. If those are compatible, then > actually fiddling with the signals (adding/separating sync-on-green, for > example) is not too hard. But scan rate conversion can get very > complex... I've yet to find any docs on how to seperate out the sync-on-green. I have an HP X term that outputs sync-on-green VGA and no compatible monitor. -Philip From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Feb 8 14:33:47 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Quest for Apple II Red Book Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E373E@MAIL10> Hi: I have through page 74 of the book from Turley. The last time I checked, that's all that he scanned. He no longer has links to the file archive. If you have a link to his "Driveway.com" account, I'd appreciate it. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: /mpm [mailto:celt@chisp.net] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:03 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Quest for Apple II Red Book Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > I want to begin my quest for a copy of the Apple II "Red Book." > > If anyone has a copy and can tell me if it has an ISBN number on it, and > what that number is, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > ClubWin! Group 1 > Collector of Classic Computers > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /*****************************************/ The Red Book was an "internal" document, (at the time) available only to Apple engineers and a few select dealers. IIRC, it was written by Woz as a reference for Apple's engineering dept. Someone (Dr. Tom of comp.sys.apple2 fame (or infamy, depending on your POV)) recently scanned the entire thing and posted it on his website. If you're interested, I'll see if I can dig up the URL and post it here. /mpm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 8 14:34:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? In-Reply-To: from "liste@artware.qc.ca" at Feb 8, 1 03:20:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 772 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010208/068990b8/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Feb 8 14:49:20 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010208124547.02a1ae88@208.226.86.10> >I've yet to find any docs on how to seperate out the sync-on-green. I >have an HP X term that outputs sync-on-green VGA and no compatible monitor. Its trivial these days, think of it as RS-170 composite video on the green channel. National used to make a great little 8 pin DIP part that with a few passive components would take composite video in and output separate sync and video. Search for 'sync separator' on the web or in the library. One trick I saw (but never figured out if it was actually necessary) was that the sync was separated but the original video was used to the green gun. The author claimed that the phase shift introduced in going through the sync separator caused the colors to be 'off' on his monitor so he just fed the original signal back into the monitor. --Chuck From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 8 16:37:40 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Osbourne computer question Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010208173740.243fef50@mailhost.intellistar.net> What was the first model Osboune computer that was manufactured? I picked up two Osbournes today, one is a model OCC-1 but the other doesn't have a model number. It just says Osbourne 1 on the side of the case. The O-1 has a permanently attached power cord instead of a detachable one and there's no door over the compartment were the power cord attaches. The compartment is also much shallower on the O-1. Joe From ss at allegro.com Thu Feb 8 15:32:43 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A829FFB.32662.A41F6FE@localhost> Re: > Before I screw up anything (which is inevitable), I really need to make a > recovery tape. Question: How can I make a COMPLETE backup of the system? Ah..if you wanted to do that, you'd have got an HP 3000 instead of an HP 9000 :) Seriously, the whole-disk-copy method is probably the best for an 8.x system. Re: copyutil. I don't think ODE existed back in 8.0, so "ode copyutil" probably won't work. My recommendations: 1) dd to a spare disk drive 2) dd to a DDS (aka "DAT") (so there are no reel changes to worry about) 3) dd (somehow) to 9-track tape ... worrying about reel changes. The restoration from #1 is trivial...just boot from that drive. For #2, you'd boot to the tape-based or CD-based HP-UX that you probably have ("support" tape or "support" CD), and then run "dd" to bring back the data. All three would allow you to restore to the original drive *or* a larger drive (if necessary). Stan Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Feb 8 17:58:49 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: New version of the Dec field guide for the Palm References: <200102080139.RAA09616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3A82431D.34CB97A7@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3A8332B9.1012@xs4all.nl> Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >A new update of the Dec field Guide for the Palm III/V/VII is available > >upon request. For those who did request a copy earlier, no need to > > Any chance of it working on earlier Palm's? This is starting to sound good. I think it will. The 'list' tool is designed straight forward, so it looks like it will also work on the older Personal and Professional. Ed > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Feb 8 18:05:14 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: New version of the Dec field guide for the Palm References: <200102080139.RAA09616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3A82431D.34CB97A7@topnow.com> <3A82FAB0.AE@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3A83343A.31FA@xs4all.nl> Bob Brown wrote: > > Will this only work on 'Palm's? Any options for Windows CE running on an > HP Jornada 680? Probably not, unless the 'list' tool is also available under Windows CE. The source and PalmOS binary of the tool can be found at http://www.magma.ca/~roo/list/list.html, which is maintained by the owner of the program. Ed > > -Bob > > >Hello All, > > > >A new update of the Dec field Guide for the Palm III/V/VII is available > >upon request. For those who did request a copy earlier, no need to > >reply, you will get it automatically. > > > >Changes in this version: > > - included references to the document names > > - cosmetic changes > > - more product names > > - web page reference to the maintained copy by Megan Gentry > > > >This version does only contains the Dec stuff, the non Dec stuff > >will come in a later update. > > > >Outstanding enhancements: > > - micronotes > > - more A/G/M card series & descriptions > > > >If you want a copy, send me an email and it will be send to you. > > > >Regards, > > > >Ed > >-- > >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: > >zakkenvullers > >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. > >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | > >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! > > Bob Brown > Saved by grace > Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From edick at idcomm.com Thu Feb 8 16:03:38 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? References: Message-ID: <000d01c0921a$fd9e7840$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:20 PM Subject: Re: RGB-VGA Converter -- buy or build? > > On 07-Feb-2001 Tony Duell wrote: > > The main problem here are the scan rates. If those are compatible, then > > actually fiddling with the signals (adding/separating sync-on-green, for > > example) is not too hard. But scan rate conversion can get very > > complex... > > I've yet to find any docs on how to seperate out the sync-on-green. I > have an HP X term that outputs sync-on-green VGA and no compatible monitor. > Sync-on-Green and VGA, as far as I know, shouldn't appear in the same clause (except for this type of clause) since it's like saying it's a black shade of white or a round square. They are VERY different. Until you KNOW, absolutely, what the frequency requirements are, and that you can't get a proper replacement monitor at the junkyard, I think your efforts would be best spent trying to get a schematic of the video adapter circuit. I've tossed out several very nice large fixed frequency monitors after trying to give them away, simply because nobody wanted either to come and get them or pay the shipping costs. I think this is a natural consequence of chosing to center your hobby around these formerly VERY costly systems, carefully designed to prevent you from using another vendor's hardware in case it might cost less. If you find a compatible monitor, it's unlikely it will cost more than $50, in addition to the cost of shipping. You can produce a separate, ttl-compatible composite sync easily enough, but the fact that it's a composite sync (with horizontal and vertical sync combined in the same signal) means that you'll need to separate the signals from their composite form and subsequently filter them. It's not as easy as it might seem, and I've normally gone back into the video adapter circuitry to look for suitable timing, which, due to the current tendency to integrate everything into a single LSI, tends to be more difficult these days. In systems that were designed to be used with sync-on-green monitors, the DAC normally had the capability to put the negative-going sync pulses right on the green video signal was common. You should be able to handle that with software. However, if you don't know the DAC or other circuitry because it's all stock-numbered, you may be up the proverbial creek, and even more so if the DAC is internal to the LSI. Dick > > -Philip > > From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 8 07:29:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <200102080139.RAA09616@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <281.439T200T8693429optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >Since my Power Mac 7300's HD had a serious mechanical failure this morning, >I am now back on the 128D's console. Feels good to have " on SHIFT-2 ... " is on shift-2 on all my Macs. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Test makers do it sometimes/always/never. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Feb 8 16:24:18 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Osbourne computer question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010208173740.243fef50@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20010208173740.243fef50@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: > What was the first model Osboune computer that was manufactured? I >picked up two Osbournes today, one is a model OCC-1 but the other doesn't >have a model number. It just says Osbourne 1 on the side of the case. The >O-1 has a permanently attached power cord instead of a detachable one and >there's no door over the compartment were the power cord attaches. The >compartment is also much shallower on the O-1. The one that says 'Osborne' on the side of the case is the later variety with the more rigid case, which should be a more standard beige or similar color. The other should have a more yellow colored case and would be the original model. It's case isn't quite as sturdy. It did have a cover over where the power cord coils into but it was totally detachable. It more or less just snapped into place vice the hinged variety of the later models. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 8 16:25:20 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Osbourne computer question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010208173740.243fef50@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Joe wrote: > What was the first model Osboune computer that was manufactured? I > picked up two Osbournes today, one is a model OCC-1 but the other doesn't > have a model number. It just says Osbourne 1 on the side of the case. The > O-1 has a permanently attached power cord instead of a detachable one and > there's no door over the compartment were the power cord attaches. The > compartment is also much shallower on the O-1. > > Joe I always assume that fixed power cords are the older on any given computer equipment. I know it was true on Kaypro and Morrow. - don From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Feb 8 17:01:06 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <281.439T200T8693429optimus@canit.se> References: <281.439T200T8693429optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Cameron Kaiser skrev: > >>Since my Power Mac 7300's HD had a serious mechanical failure this morning, >>I am now back on the 128D's console. Feels good to have " on SHIFT-2 ... > >" is on shift-2 on all my Macs. =) On any Macs with an extended keyboard or similar, SHIFT-2 should be the @. The " is SHIFT-' right next to the enter key. With my TRS-80 Model 2000, the US keyboard has the @ on SHIFT-2 as well, but with the International keyboard it is " as you describe. I've yet to get any good information on just where the International keyboard was sold though, as it's a bit different in key layout, as well as the number of keys. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From harrison at timharrison.com Thu Feb 8 17:30:20 2001 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Question for the HPUX guys References: <200102072207.f17M7AX17486@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3A832C0C.B0D7D39F@timharrison.com> Bill Pechter wrote: > I know Sam was in HP-UX8... I think it may have even been in 7.x. SAM on 8 is evil! Every time I run it, and do anything relating to filesystems, it locks the entire box. Run screaming! -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 8 18:19:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Osbourne computer question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > The one that says 'Osborne' on the side of the case is the > later variety with the more rigid case, which should be a more > standard beige or similar color. The other should have a more yellow > colored case and would be the original model. It's case isn't quite > as sturdy. It did have a cover over where the power cord coils into > but it was totally detachable. It more or less just snapped into > place vice the hinged variety of the later models. The ones I have use velcro to attach the cover over the power cord. It's pretty shabby actually. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 8 19:42:53 2001 From: eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Quest for Apple II Red Book In-Reply-To: /mpm's message of "Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:02:33 -0700" References: <3A82FB59.703@chisp.net> Message-ID: /mpm writes: > The Red Book was an "internal" document, (at the time) available only > to Apple engineers and a few select dealers. IIRC, it was written by > Woz as a reference for Apple's engineering dept. Someone (Dr. Tom of > comp.sys.apple2 fame (or infamy, depending on your POV)) recently > scanned the entire thing and posted it on his website. If you're > interested, I'll see if I can dig up the URL and post it here. There was a "user manual" for the Apple ][ published in January 1978. It was 8.5x11, had a red cover, and was shipped with every Apple ][ until the newer manuals appeared. This was referred to as the "Red Book". It was in no way an "internal document". There may well have been some *other* document called a Red Book, but I don't think that's what this thread is about. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Feb 8 19:48:07 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Osbourne computer question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 8 Feb 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> The one that says 'Osborne' on the side of the case is the >> later variety with the more rigid case, which should be a more >> standard beige or similar color. The other should have a more yellow >> colored case and would be the original model. It's case isn't quite >> as sturdy. It did have a cover over where the power cord coils into >> but it was totally detachable. It more or less just snapped into >> place vice the hinged variety of the later models. > >The ones I have use velcro to attach the cover over the power cord. It's >pretty shabby actually. Which would explain why they're more likely to be found without the cover. The engineering on the 2nd variant was considerably better than the first, what with the sturdier case, coiled keyboard cable vice the thick ribbon cable, and a few other improvements. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Feb 8 20:13:06 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Sam on HP-UX. Ugh In-Reply-To: <3A832C0C.B0D7D39F@timharrison.com> from Tim Harrison at "Feb 8, 2001 06:30:20 pm" Message-ID: <200102090213.f192D7w20265@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> > Bill Pechter wrote: > > > I know Sam was in HP-UX8... I think it may have even been in 7.x. > > SAM on 8 is evil! Every time I run it, and do anything relating to > filesystems, it locks the entire box. Run screaming! > > -- > > > Tim Harrison > Network Engineer > harrison@timharrison.com > http://www.networklevel.com/ > You ain't kidding... my wife did a sam delete user for about a dozen users and it ran them in parallel till it locked the machine up with too many find . -user xxx -print | xarg rm processes and blew out the machine. Bad software . Bad. Very bad. Bad programmer . Bad. Very bad. Boy was AIX's SMIT a ton better at the same time. The running guy was a bit much, though. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 8 20:35:20 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? Message-ID: <200102090235.SAA07990@stockholm.ptloma.edu> This is definitely Off-Topic -- however, I'm absolutely baffled by this and I'm sure there's a SCSI expert out there somewhere. Like I said, the Seagate in my Power Mac 7300 overheated and is now making unpleasant grinding noises instead of booting. I got the old Quantum Fireball I used before out of the stock closet and plugged that in to try to boot back up again. However, the 7300 won't see any HD's I plug in. I tried it on the SCSI bus with just the hard drive by itself and no other devices, and it still doesn't see it. But if I hook the CD-ROM up (by itself or even with the HDs), it does see that -- but no HD. I'm sure it's not the cable (I've tried two and same results). I thought it might be a termination problem, but when I take the drive over to the IIci and plug it in, it mounts it fine. Obviously doesn't boot too well off MacOS 8.6, but if I boot the IIci off floppy and have it look at the hard drive, it does see all the files. No changes to jumpers. And, like on the 7300, the HD was the only drive except for the floppy on the ci's SCSI when I tested it. What gives? Is something fried on the 7300? Or am I missing some elementary rule about SCSI termination? The HD is a Quantum Fireball and its termination jumper is on, ID 0 (the CD-ROM is ID 4). Advice appreciated, flames borne with sheepish dignity. Sorry about the OT, but just to make this mildly on-topic, I did type this on the C128! :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I don't think so," said Descartes, and he vanished. ----------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 8 23:29:47 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Sam on HP-UX. Ugh In-Reply-To: <200102090213.f192D7w20265@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Feb 8, 1 09:13:06 pm" Message-ID: <200102090529.VAA10328@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Boy was AIX's SMIT a ton better at the same time. > The running guy was a bit much, though. That's why I use smitty. No stupid icon interface. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Time is what keeps everything from happening at once. ---------------------- From marvin at rain.org Fri Feb 9 00:44:14 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? References: <200102090235.SAA07990@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A8391BE.962F7E22@rain.org> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > What gives? Is something fried on the 7300? Or am I missing some elementary > rule about SCSI termination? The HD is a Quantum Fireball and its termination > jumper is on, ID 0 (the CD-ROM is ID 4). I am not familiar with Macs except the ones we get at the Golden Arches, but IIRC, ID 0 is reserved for the SCSI controller. Have you tried putting it on another SCSI ID? From liste at artware.qc.ca Fri Feb 9 02:00:45 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? In-Reply-To: <3A8391BE.962F7E22@rain.org> Message-ID: On 09-Feb-2001 Marvin wrote: > > I am not familiar with Macs except the ones we get at the Golden Arches, > but IIRC, ID 0 is reserved for the SCSI controller. Have you tried > putting it on another SCSI ID? No ID is "reserved". The controller can have any ID, though generaly it's 7. -Philip From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 9 01:28:01 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1207448449 $5,100 was the final bid. I wonder if it was actually consumated? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Feb 9 03:07:02 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:35 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? In-Reply-To: References: <3A8391BE.962F7E22@rain.org> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010209010638.021c37a0@208.226.86.10> >No ID is "reserved". The controller can have any ID, though generaly it's >7. True, unless its a VAX 4000/VLC in which case its ID 6. :-) --Chuck From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 07:31:01 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Sam on HP-UX and 8.0 backup update Message-ID: Actually, I haven't had any bad experiences with SAM on HP-UX 8 , yet. It doesn't do as much as the 10.20 version but, for routine tasks it seems to work OK. It's certainly MUCH faster than 10.20 version on the same hardware. UPDATE: I tried to do a ODE -> backup, using my 10.20 IPR disk but was not successful. I tried to backup to tape (DAT and Reel) and tried to copy to another set of disks. Each time, the system reported that there wasn't enough memory to perform the operation. Bummer :-( Currently, the machine has 32MB of memory. I assume this should be plenty? Once or twice, I've had an unexpected failure on that box and had assumed that I was screwing something up. Maybe I've just got a bad memory card. This weekend, I'll try swapping cards between the two 832's and see if I can find the problem. Is there a HPUX or ODE utility for testing memory? I've got a bunch of spare memory modules that I canabalized from another system. Most are 8MB although I do have some other sizes as well. What are the rules for installing memory? Can the memory go in any of the slots? Can I mix 4MB and 8MB cards? Thanks for the help, Steve >From: Bill Pechter >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Sam on HP-UX. Ugh >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:13:06 -0500 (EST) > > > Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > > I know Sam was in HP-UX8... I think it may have even been in 7.x. > > > > SAM on 8 is evil! Every time I run it, and do anything relating to >filesystems, it locks the entire box. Run screaming! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Feb 9 08:48:55 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: A2024/Viking Moniterm (was Re: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga develop ment)) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DFB@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > You are both right: the Viking Moniterm was a Sun-style 19" mono monitor > and a card for the video slot, and the A2024 was a monitor with a 23-pin > Amiga video connection and all the necessary goodies inside. I had an > A2024 once, I still have the Moniterm. I have a Viking Moniterm, and no interface card. Anyone have an extra? -dq From edick at idcomm.com Fri Feb 9 10:05:18 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! References: Message-ID: <002301c092b2$18f1aee0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, they were this costly if you figured in the cost of Malox, aspirin, whiskey, and prune juice, as needed to make one work. This guy has put together a complete, working floppy disk based system on an IMSAI motherboard and front-panel. Getting things to run in the IMSAI box/PSU combination was a challenge, but making it work with the FP present was a REAL challenge. It's interesting is that the writeup suggests that the system isn't even properly functional. It looks as though the purchase was made on the strength of the fact that the disk drive boxes were the right color. They certainly aren't original IMSAI equipment. One thing the NorthStar controller offers, in spite of its many shortcomings, is that it works with a 2 MHz 8080 CPU, which, though not what's shown with the system, is what it runs in its original configuration. I'll have to congratulate Tom Bassi for selling this thing at such a price! He wrote me some months back that he was going to be getting rid of some of his IMSAI stuff. I've long advised him to get rid of his NorthStar stuff in favor of stuff that's more conventional. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:28 AM Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1207448449 > > $5,100 was the final bid. I wonder if it was actually consumated? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Feb 9 10:02:01 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010209080144.00b55630@pacbell.net> At 11:28 PM 2/8/01 -0800, you wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1207448449 > >$5,100 was the final bid. I wonder if it was actually consumated? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=gcacioppo The feedback says the deal was done. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From marvin at rain.org Fri Feb 9 10:22:13 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? References: Message-ID: <3A841935.27D43F47@rain.org> liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > On 09-Feb-2001 Marvin wrote: > > > > I am not familiar with Macs except the ones we get at the Golden Arches, > > but IIRC, ID 0 is reserved for the SCSI controller. Have you tried > > putting it on another SCSI ID? > > No ID is "reserved". The controller can have any ID, though generaly it's > 7. Thanks, I had the wrong end :). Reserved is by convention and my experience is that changing standards for the sake of changing things just makes it harder on anyone else who has to troubleshoot a system. From celt at chisp.net Fri Feb 9 10:18:36 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (/mpm) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Quest for Apple II Red Book References: <3A82FB59.703@chisp.net> Message-ID: <3A84185C.8060104@chisp.net> Eric Smith wrote: > /mpm writes: > >> The Red Book was an "internal" document, (at the time) available only >> to Apple engineers and a few select dealers. IIRC, it was written by >> Woz as a reference for Apple's engineering dept. Someone (Dr. Tom of >> comp.sys.apple2 fame (or infamy, depending on your POV)) recently >> scanned the entire thing and posted it on his website. If you're >> interested, I'll see if I can dig up the URL and post it here. > > > There was a "user manual" for the Apple ][ published in January 1978. > It was 8.5x11, had a red cover, and was shipped with every Apple ][ > until the newer manuals appeared. This was referred to as the > "Red Book". It was in no way an "internal document". > > There may well have been some *other* document called a Red Book, but > I don't think that's what this thread is about. Seems I was mistaken: "The original manual for the Apple II was sparse. It consisted of thirty photocopied pages, including some handwritten notes from Woz. The cover stated, "simplicity is the ultimate sophistication: introducing Apple ][, the personal computer." In early 1978 these original photocopied manuals were replaced with the new "Apple II Technical Reference Manual" (also known as the "Red Book"), and copies were mailed to previous customers. Steve Jobs realized that people often viewed the quality of a product by the quality of its documentation, and so he took pains to get manuals that were easy to read and had a professional appearance." http://www.hypermall.com/History/ah04.html#RedBook From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 9 10:25:29 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX Message-ID: <1066.440T1450T10454747optimus@canit.se> I was recently rummaging through a MicroVAX II GPX, and found the card cage, as well as the convenient HD trays. I proceeded, out of curiosity, to remove the RZ55 and what seemed like a SCSI card as well as some other card mounted above the aforementioned card, connected to the tape drive. After a while, I decided to plug it all in again, but the VAX didn't seem to agree with my engineering principles. When I had chosen language, I reached the PROM prompt. It seemed to take a long time at the "6..." before the prompt, though. I know nothing about the VAX prompt, but I know that "b" or "boot" has caused it to boot before, so I did thus: >>b 2... ?4F SCBINT, XQA0 ?06 HLT INST PC=00000EE6 Fel. What could have caused this? Have I inserted the QBUS card incorrectly? Or does the SCSI (Is it SCSI at all?) cable have t0o be inserted in any particular way into the drive? This is rather alarming, I don't wish to have inadvertently destroyed a fine VAX. =/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r v?rt enda reciproka pronomen. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Feb 9 10:45:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? References: <3A841935.27D43F47@rain.org> Message-ID: <000901c092b7$c171b920$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The boot drive normally IS at ID=0, however. That's a real convention throughout the SCSI usage. I don't recall ever seeing a system that would boot, say, from ID=4. Most PC's will promote the ID=1 device to the boot rank, but not if ID=0 is present but manlfunctioning. YMMV, of course. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? > > > liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > > > On 09-Feb-2001 Marvin wrote: > > > > > > I am not familiar with Macs except the ones we get at the Golden Arches, > > > but IIRC, ID 0 is reserved for the SCSI controller. Have you tried > > > putting it on another SCSI ID? > > > > No ID is "reserved". The controller can have any ID, though generaly it's > > 7. > > Thanks, I had the wrong end :). Reserved is by convention and my experience > is that changing standards for the sake of changing things just makes it > harder on anyone else who has to troubleshoot a system. > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Feb 9 11:00:59 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX In-Reply-To: <1066.440T1450T10454747optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010209085950.0204cc50@208.226.86.10> Common mistakes are : 1) leaving a gap in the bus grant chain 2) plugging in a card backwards (components on wrong side) 3) plugging a qbus card into a C/D slot (the first four slots on the BA123, first 3 on the BA23) --Chuck At 05:25 PM 2/9/01 +0100, you wrote: >I was recently rummaging through a MicroVAX II GPX, and found the card cage, >as well as the convenient HD trays. I proceeded, out of curiosity, to remove >the RZ55 and what seemed like a SCSI card as well as some other card mounted >above the aforementioned card, connected to the tape drive. After a while, I >decided to plug it all in again, but the VAX didn't seem to agree with my >engineering principles. When I had chosen language, I reached the PROM prompt. >It seemed to take a long time at the "6..." before the prompt, though. >I know nothing about the VAX prompt, but I know that "b" or "boot" has caused >it to boot before, so I did thus: > > >>b >2... >?4F SCBINT, XQA0 >?06 HLT INST > PC=00000EE6 >Fel. > >What could have caused this? Have I inserted the QBUS card incorrectly? Or >does the SCSI (Is it SCSI at all?) cable have t0o be inserted in any >particular way into the drive? >This is rather alarming, I don't wish to have inadvertently destroyed a fine >VAX. =/ > >-- >En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > >Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r v?rt enda reciproka pronomen. From harrison at timharrison.com Fri Feb 9 11:21:29 2001 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Sam on HP-UX. Ugh References: <200102090213.f192D7w20265@bg-tc-ppp615.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3A842719.50F3B312@timharrison.com> Bill Pechter wrote: > You ain't kidding... my wife did a sam delete user for about > a dozen users and it ran them in parallel till it locked the machine up > with too many find . -user xxx -print | xarg rm processes and blew out > the machine. I wish I'd even gotten that far. :) > Bad software . Bad. Very bad. > Bad programmer . Bad. Very bad. You'd think they'd have testing things like that before releasing it. :/ > Boy was AIX's SMIT a ton better at the same time. > The running guy was a bit much, though. I always thought that was a hint. Run! Run far! :) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Feb 9 11:28:17 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Toshiba Sat. Pro 420CDT Help needed Message-ID: 'Allo List - My trusty Toshiba laptop has fallen victim to the ravages of Indian Mains Chaos. It was plugged in charging over night at a hotel; the line voltage must have gone up near 300. The next day, I noticed it running on batt though plugged in, and when I re-seated the mains plug the laptop made one of those expensive little 'pop!' noises. We've removed the internal SMPSU and tried to fix it, but it's tiny and full of SMDs and I have no schematic. Some of the SMD resistors were actually blown off the board.. If I understand the unit, it puts out 12VDC. Ihave connected an external 12V supply to the leads, but no joy yet. Until it ran down, the machine worked fine on the battery., including after removal of the SMPSU and re-assembly of the case.. Now, with 12V on the SMPSU wires, the 'mains plug' icon LED flashes "one long - two short - one long - off one long period" The unit will not power up in this mode. If anyone has any direct Toshiba info: I would like - What this code means. What the actual internal PS voltage output/current is. What the battery connections/voltages are (for ext charging} If/Where a service manual is available for the laptop If anyone has a 420CDT junker they'd like to sell. All I want is the main board and power supply. Also the battery would be nice for a spare. I have located a source for the SMPSU and mobo and batteries, but with shipping and %65 import duty... I'd rather not if I can avoid it. I would also like the orginal user/operation manual (w/setup disks?), if anyone has one they'd like to jettison. Of course I'll pay for packing/shipping. This is kinda urgent.. we've been messing around with the PSU for a week or two now... and I need my laptop back.. :( sigh. I know it's probably new laptop time, but this one does just what I want it to do... and is all set up. Plus here in India, Laptops are twice what they are elsewhere. I have to fly to Singapore or Hong Kong, buy one, then try and convince the Kustoms Aggents that yes, I did have it with me when I left the country. fuhgeddiboutit! Hopefully... John From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Fri Feb 9 12:08:44 2001 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX In-Reply-To: <1066.440T1450T10454747optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 9 Feb 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >>b > 2... > ?4F SCBINT, XQA0 > ?06 HLT INST > PC=00000EE6 I'm pretty sure that the XQA0 means that it's trying to boot from the network. Try a "b DUA0" and see what happens. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Digital Knowledge Center The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From jdarren at ala.net Fri Feb 9 12:08:13 2001 From: jdarren at ala.net (J. Darren Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Honeywell, Varian, and Teletype manuals for sale Message-ID: <000201c092d1$1ed0e280$d51b6bce@oemcomputer> All of the books are for sale as a single lot. I'll accept the best offer. honeywell --------- 1. HONEYWELL DAP-16 MANUAL FOR THE DDP-116, DDP-416, AND DDP-516 GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTERS 8-1/2" X 11" 1966 REPRODUCTION 2. HONEYWELL DDP-516 GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTER DRAWINGS, VOLUME III 8-1/2" X 14" 1969 REPRODUCTION 3. HONEYWELL DDP-516 GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTER DRAWINGS, VOLUME III 11" X 17" 1975 REPRODUCTION 4. HONEYWELL DDP-516 GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTER DRAWINGS, VOLUME III 11" X 14" 1973 ORIGINAL 5. HONEYWELL DDP-516 GENERAL PURPOSE COMPUTER DRAWINGS, VOLUME III (2 COPIES) 11" X 17" 1975 ORIGINAL 6. HONEYWELL H316 GENERAL PURPOSE DIGITAL COMPUTER INSTRUCTIONS AND LOGIC DIAGRAMS 11" X 14" 1973 ORIGINAL 7. HONEYWELL INTEGRATED CIRCUITS REFERENCE MANUAL 3-3/4" X 6-1/2" 1975 ORIGINAL 8. HONEYWELL MAINTENANCE MANUAL FOR TYPE 5010 PAPER TAPE READER OPTION 8-1/2" X 11" 1975 ORIGINAL 9. HONEYWELL SERIES 16 BASIC I/O DEVICES PROGRAMMING MANUAL 8-1/2" X 11" 1970 ORIGINAL 10. HONEYWELL SERIES 16 INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR LINE PRINTER CONTROL OPTION MODEL 5500 8-1/2" X 11" 1973 ORIGINAL 11. HONEYWELL SERIES 16 INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR MODELS 516-25 AND 416-25 PRIORITY INTERRUPT, MODELS 516-25 AND 416-25 MEMORY INCREMENT OPTIONS 8-1/2" X 11" 1969 ORIGINAL 12. HONEYWELL SERIES 16 INSTRUCTION/INTERFACE MANUAL FOR INKTRONIC PRINTER, PARALLEL VERSION 8-1/2" X 11" 1970 ORIGINAL 13. HONEYWELL SERIES 16 PROGRAMMERS REFERENCE MANUAL FOR H316/DDP-516 CARD READER OPTION, MODEL 316/516-5100 8-1/2" X 11" 1970 ORIGINAL 14. HONEYWELL SERIES 16 PROGRAMMING MANUAL FOR TYPE 5500 LINE PRINTER OPTION 8-1/2" X 11" 1970 ORIGINAL 15. HONEYWELL SYSTEM 700 OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE MANUAL FOR TYPES 4780, 4781, AND 4791 MOVING HEAD DISK CONTROL OPTIONS 8-1/2" X 11" 1975 ORIGINAL 16. HONEYWELL SYSTEM 700 PROGRAMMERS REFERENCE MANUAL (2 COPIES) 8-1/2" X 11" 1976 REPRODUCTION 17. HONEYWELL TYPE 716 GENERAL PURPOSE DIGITAL COMPUTER INSTRUCTIONS AND LOGIC DIAGRAMS 11" X 17" 1975 ORIGINAL 18. HONEYWELL TYPE 716 GENERAL PURPOSE DIGITAL COMPUTER INSTRUCTIONS AND LOGIC DIAGRAMS (3 COPIES) 11" X 17" 1975 ORIGINAL 19. HONEYWELL TYPE 716 GENERAL PURPOSE DIGITAL COMPUTER INSTRUCTIONS AND LOGIC DIAGRAMS (2 COPIES) 11" X 17" 1975 REPRODUCTION 20. HONEYWELL SYSTEM 700 MAINTENANCE FOR TYPE 9070 DMA BUFFER BOARD OPTION 8-1/2" X 11" 1973 ORIGINAL 21. HONEYWELL MAINTENANCE MANUAL FOR 716 TO 716 ICCU OPTION 3100 8-1/2" X 11" 1975 ORIGINAL 22. HONEYWELL OPERATION/MAINTENANCE MANUAL FOR 122/222A PRINTER 8-1/2" X 11" 1971 ORIGINAL 23. HONEYWELL PROGRAMMING AND MAINTENANCE MANUAL FOR H716 VERSATEC MATRIX PRINTER 8-1/2" X 11" 1978 REPRODUCTION 24. HONEYWELL MAINTENANCE MANUAL FOR TYPE 9070 DMA BUFFER BOARD 8-1/2" X 11" 1973 ORIGINAL 25. HONEYWELL PROGRAMMING AND MAINTENANCE MANUAL FOR H716 TO DDP-516 DMA-I/O BUS ADAPTER 8-1/2" X 11" 1978 REPRODUCTION teletype -------- 26. TELETYPE INKTRONIC PAGE PRINTER RECEIVE-ONLY TECHNICAL MANUAL (2 COPIES) 8-1/2" X 11" 1970 ORIGINAL 27. TELETYPE PARTS MANUAL FOR INKTRONIC PAGE PRINTER 8-1/2" X 11" 1970 ORIGINAL 28. TELETYPE PARTS MANUAL FOR INKTRONIC PRINTER SET RO & KSR 8-1/2" X 11" 1971 ORIGINAL varian ------ 29. VARIAN 620-100 COMPUTER HANDBOOK 5-1/4" X 8" 1972 ORIGINAL 30. VARIAN 620/L-100 MAINTENANCE MANUAL 8-1/2" X 11" 1973 REPRODUCTION From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 9 14:22:57 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? In-Reply-To: <3A8391BE.962F7E22@rain.org> References: <200102090235.SAA07990@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3A8391BE.962F7E22@rain.org> Message-ID: >I am not familiar with Macs except the ones we get at the Golden Arches, but >IIRC, ID 0 is reserved for the SCSI controller. Have you tried putting it on >another SCSI ID? On Mac's, the SCSI controller is generally ID 7 as verified by Adaptec's SCSI Probe utility. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 9 14:28:37 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? In-Reply-To: <000901c092b7$c171b920$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <3A841935.27D43F47@rain.org> <000901c092b7$c171b920$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >The boot drive normally IS at ID=0, however. That's a real convention >throughout the SCSI usage. I don't recall ever seeing a system that would >boot, say, from ID=4. Most PC's will promote the ID=1 device to the boot >rank, but not if ID=0 is present but manlfunctioning. YMMV, of course. Actually, both of my Mac's that I keep running here boot from something other than ID 0. On this machine for instance, the CD-ROM is at 0 while the main hard disk is at 1 and normally it has any number of other items on the bus such as CD-R and scanner and occasionally an external hard disk. I swap SCSI stuff around a lot, testing various things, so my SCSI ID numbers rarely stay fixed for long. My SETI machine, which is the other Mac that runs constantly, has it's CD-ROM at 0 and it's internal hard disk at 2. I do believe some older Mac's, and most certainly the NeXT machines, require the boot drive to be at 0 or 1. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mark_k at iname.com Fri Feb 9 14:40:53 2001 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) Message-ID: Hi, On 04 Feb 01 Iggy Drougge wrote: > Bill Pechter skrev: > > >A friend of mine worked on the port of AT&T SVR4 to the Amiga. > >It sold (I think) at the University of Virginia as the official student > >workstation of the Engineering School. > > >I've never used an Amiga, but I'd love to get my hands on one of those > >Amigas with Unix on it. > > I'd love to get my hands on AMIX, Amiga SVR4, but it was only distributed on > tape, AFAIK, and the only time I've seen it was on eBay at a rather > exaggerated price, IIRC. Of course it's possible to copy the files from the distribution tape to a more reliable medium. I did this, I think they totalled 70MB or so when compressed. On that subject: Since I have no way to run AMIX, I have no way of knowing whether the backup technique I used -- simply copying all 19 or so files from the tape to disk using a tape handler on the Amiga -- worked successfully. Does anyone on the list have the capability to install and use AMIX from tape? I could upload the files, then perhaps they could check whether a fresh tape can be built from them. To actually install Amiga UNIX requires a Commodore A2091 or A3000 SCSI controller. Apparently someone made patches to allow AMIX to be used with GVP controllers, but I have never seen them. (I would really like to get hold of that, since maybe it will be possible to install AMIX on my A2000 then. But you probably have to install AMIX before being able to incorporate the patches...) -- Mark From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Fri Feb 9 15:18:03 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: OT? PS2<->USB In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010209085950.0204cc50@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <000301c092dd$ca264fb0$4d0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Possibly on topic due to the year of introduction of the PS2 serial mouse connection... I recently picked up a new , fairly low cost mouse (Logitech optical) without expecting anything but the PS2 connector and lo and behold the thing was native USB... with a miniscule PS2 adaptor on the end. My Q is this: is USB somehow an electrical superset of PS2, IE the adaptor was passive. Or, did they fit some electronics in that tiny thing? John A. From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Feb 9 15:37:56 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: A2024/Viking Moniterm (was Re: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga develop ment)) In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DFB@tegntserver.tegjeff.com>; from dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 09:48:55AM -0500 References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DFB@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20010209143756.D17486@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 09:48:55AM -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > You are both right: the Viking Moniterm was a Sun-style 19" mono monitor > > and a card for the video slot, and the A2024 was a monitor with a 23-pin > > Amiga video connection and all the necessary goodies inside. I had an > > A2024 once, I still have the Moniterm. > > I have a Viking Moniterm, and no interface card. Several years ago I worked for someone who had a few dozen surplus Moniterm 19" monitors, and most of them needed the same repair - the first-stage video amplifier transistors needed replacing, and they needed general alignment/color adjustments. They work well at 1280x1024x60hz, but are very unusual in that they use DIP switches to control the "fixed" frequency at which they operate; therefore can be used at other resolutions and refresh rates too, with enough patience and tweaking. My only reward for this work was that I got to keep one of them; and now my dad has it. He uses it with a Worldwyde S3-Virge- based PC video card. This card does line doubling/tripling/quadrupling, and padding, as necessary to force all video modes into an approximately 1024-line non-interlaced format. They are color and have 4 BNC inputs (composite sync). I have another old CAD-oriented ISA board which worked with this monitor too, but it could only do 16 colors, and did not do text mode at all; it only worked in Windows 3.1 and AutoCAD 10. That card (and docs, drivers etc.) are available for trade or whatever if anyone wants it. These monitors do not generate a full-screen picture; there is a large black band around the outside. Their excuse was that they wanted to have a very precise image, so that straight lines look straight, and therefore avoided the edges parts of the CRT. I thought it was a lame excuse; but if I try to make the picture bigger, it gets distorted. The CRT is by Sony I think, but they probably designed their own electronics. I have technical docs on these monitors (somewhere) if anyone here ever needs it. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From alex at linuxhacker.org Fri Feb 9 16:08:16 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: OT? PS2<->USB In-Reply-To: <000301c092dd$ca264fb0$4d0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, John Allain wrote: > is USB somehow an electrical superset of PS2 No. > Or, did they fit some electronics in that tiny thing? I would guess that the microcontroller in the mouse can handle both PS2 and USB protocols and has some way of automatically detecting which type of interface it's connected to. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Feb 9 16:29:21 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: OT? PS2<->USB In-Reply-To: <000301c092dd$ca264fb0$4d0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010209085950.0204cc50@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >Possibly on topic due to the year of introduction >of the PS2 serial mouse connection... I recently >picked up a new , fairly low cost mouse (Logitech >optical) without expecting anything but the PS2 >connector and lo and behold the thing was native >USB... with a miniscule PS2 adaptor on the end. > >My Q is this: is USB somehow an electrical superset >of PS2, IE the adaptor was passive. Or, did they fit >some electronics in that tiny thing? > >John A. The smarts are in the mouse. I have a couple devices like this, and they must have some smarts inside that detects the type of connection, and behaves correctly. Pretty common in a bunch of cheap devices really. One caution, mark the doodad, as they may not be the same for different devices. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Feb 9 16:59:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: OT? PS2<->USB References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010209085950.0204cc50@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <000901c092eb$f87ec000$1192fea9@idcomm.com> There are many dozens of USB-dedicated microcontrollers by now. Intel has a bunch, Cypress has a bunch ... Siemens has a bunch ... Philips has a bunch ... I could go on ... These devices swap larger intelligence, bought at the price of silicon (about $3/lbincluding packaging, etc.), for interconnection uniformity. There's enough intelligence at the computer end to figure out what it is and how to talk to it, and there's enough intelligence at the device end to communicate in a regular way so that the system to which it's attached will be able to figure out who/what it is. This is what they're giving us in place of those expansion slots that newer PC's haven't got anymore. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:29 PM Subject: Re: OT? PS2<->USB > >Possibly on topic due to the year of introduction > >of the PS2 serial mouse connection... I recently > >picked up a new , fairly low cost mouse (Logitech > >optical) without expecting anything but the PS2 > >connector and lo and behold the thing was native > >USB... with a miniscule PS2 adaptor on the end. > > > >My Q is this: is USB somehow an electrical superset > >of PS2, IE the adaptor was passive. Or, did they fit > >some electronics in that tiny thing? > > > >John A. > > The smarts are in the mouse. I have a couple devices like this, and they > must have some smarts inside that detects the type of connection, and > behaves correctly. Pretty common in a bunch of cheap devices really. > > One caution, mark the doodad, as they may not be the same for different > devices. > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 9 17:05:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: A2024/Viking Moniterm (was Re: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga develop ment)) In-Reply-To: <20010209143756.D17486@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Feb 9, 1 02:37:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2144 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010209/1afbbf8f/attachment.ksh From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Sat Feb 10 02:04:47 2001 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Stuff available in Arnhem, The Netherlands Message-ID: <20010209231959.44A2837062@rhea.worldonline.nl> People, The stuff below belongs to a charity and they are willing to part from it for a small fee - Brother WP-1 text processing system in working condition. Screen, single floppy drive and printer all in one. - Toshiba 5 1/4" external floppy disk drive Model PA 7225E. The external 18V DC 0.6A power supply is missing. Available free - Qume daisywheel printer from Decmate III system with spare wheels and ink ribbons. - Wang system unit PC-S5-3 with the following cards: PM101 IBM Mono Emulation PM029 Winch.CNTR-2 - Wang display Mon-1240 - RSX11M manuals Version 4.1 - Dec VT1200 (system unit) - VXT 2000+ (system unit) Wim From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Feb 9 17:35:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: OT? PS2<->USB In-Reply-To: Re: OT? PS2<->USB (Richard Erlacher) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010209085950.0204cc50@208.226.86.10> <000901c092eb$f87ec000$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <14980.32452.494125.348415@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 9, Richard Erlacher wrote: > There are many dozens of USB-dedicated microcontrollers by now. Intel has a > bunch, Cypress has a bunch ... Siemens has a bunch ... Philips has a bunch > ... I could go on ... Microchip recently announced a PIC with a USB interface. I really like PICs...now I'm gonna put USB in EVERYTHING! Muahhahahaaa!! 8-) > These devices swap larger intelligence, bought at the price of silicon > (about $3/lbincluding packaging, etc.), for interconnection uniformity. > There's enough intelligence at the computer end to figure out what it is and > how to talk to it, and there's enough intelligence at the device end to > communicate in a regular way so that the system to which it's attached will > be able to figure out who/what it is. This is what they're giving us in > place of those expansion slots that newer PC's haven't got anymore. Well put. -Dave McGuire From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Feb 9 17:46:07 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: A2024/Viking Moniterm (was Re: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga develop ment)) In-Reply-To: <20010209143756.D17486@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <20010209234607.32988.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Shawn T. Rutledge" wrote: > On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 09:48:55AM -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > You are both right: the Viking Moniterm was a Sun-style 19" mono monitor > > > and a card for the video slot... > Several years ago I worked for someone who had a few dozen surplus > Moniterm 19" monitors... > > They are color and have 4 BNC inputs (composite sync). The one I have has a DA-9 connector and is assuredly monochrome. It reminds me of old Sun mono monitors. I wouldn't be surprised if they shipped multiple varieties of tubes over the life of the product, if the 19" monos became scarce. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 9 18:00:18 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? Message-ID: <004501c092f5$21616e10$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >The boot drive normally IS at ID=0, however. That's a real convention >throughout the SCSI usage. I don't recall ever seeing a system that would >boot, say, from ID=4. Most PC's will promote the ID=1 device to the boot >rank, but not if ID=0 is present but manlfunctioning. YMMV, of course. >Dick On a vax it can be any device and does not have to be the first. Typically device 6 or 7 is reserved to the host other than that anything goes. Mine boots DUA3 {3} on the MVII and DKA500 {5} on the 3100m76 and the 3100M10e it can be DKBnnn {100,200,300 or 400} as that one has different bootable version on each disk. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 9 17:56:28 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX Message-ID: <004401c092f5$20db0000$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >I know nothing about the VAX prompt, but I know that "b" or "boot" has caused >it to boot before, so I did thus: > >>>b >2... >?4F SCBINT, XQA0 >?06 HLT INST > PC=00000EE6 >Fel. > >What could have caused this? Have I inserted the QBUS card incorrectly? Or Not specifying the correct device. " >>> b du" would have been enough to get it to search the DU (any MSCP complient disk) for an active drive and attempt to boot it. XQAn is eithernet DUxn {dua, dub...} is the MSCP disk MUxn is tape typically tk50 Allison From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Feb 9 18:07:48 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: [OT] SCSI termination trouble?" (Feb 9, 1:07) References: <3A8391BE.962F7E22@rain.org> <5.0.0.25.2.20010209010638.021c37a0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <10102100007.ZM25957@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 9, 1:07, Chuck McManis wrote: > > >No ID is "reserved". The controller can have any ID, though generaly it's > >7. > > True, unless its a VAX 4000/VLC in which case its ID 6. :-) Or an SGI, or some Suns, in which case the controller is ID 0 :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Feb 9 18:08:28 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: [OT] SCSI termination trouble?" (Feb 9, 9:45) References: <3A841935.27D43F47@rain.org> <000901c092b7$c171b920$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10102100008.ZM25966@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 9, 9:45, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The boot drive normally IS at ID=0, however. That's a real convention > throughout the SCSI usage. I don't recall ever seeing a system that would > boot, say, from ID=4. Most PC's will promote the ID=1 device to the boot > rank, but not if ID=0 is present but manlfunctioning. YMMV, of course. Not so. That's a PC convention. Suns, SGIs and HP workstations will happily boot from ID 4 or other IDs, in fact it's necessary if you want to boot from a tape or CD-ROM. Most Suns and SGIs default to booting from ID 1. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 9 18:06:14 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? In-Reply-To: <000901c092b7$c171b920$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <760.441T700T664821optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >The boot drive normally IS at ID=0, however. That's a real convention >throughout the SCSI usage. I don't recall ever seeing a system that would >boot, say, from ID=4. Most PC's will promote the ID=1 device to the boot >rank, but not if ID=0 is present but manlfunctioning. YMMV, of course. IBM, OTOH, goes according to the SCSI standard and boots from the highest ID and downwards. Besides, everything I've heard about PC SCSI seems utterly ridiculous and stone-age. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. About 15 years ago(in 1984), I played many time HYDLIDE like monkey's self- acting! HaHaHa!! Here in Nippon(Japan), many many MSX Freak played HYDLIDE 1/2/3 on MSX1/2. Perhaps, also you like HYDLIDE series!!! K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 9 18:30:14 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <535.441T700T903921optimus@canit.se> brian skrev: >On 9 Feb 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >>b >> 2... >> ?4F SCBINT, XQA0 >> ?06 HLT INST >> PC=00000EE6 >I'm pretty sure that the XQA0 means that it's trying to boot from the >network. Try a "b DUA0" and see what happens. Thanks, are there any good VAX references on the WWW? All manuals I've been able to find are ULTRIX manuals, no hardware references. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet sua.ath.cx, port 42512. From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 9 19:30:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: CPC/IP Message-ID: <1037.441T1050T1504231optimus@canit.se> Here's something interesting: yet another 8-bit TCP/IP stack, this time for the Amstrad/Schneider CPC. CPC/IP is an implementation of the PPP, SLIP, IP, ICMP, UDP, TCP, DNS, TFTP, HTTP, ping, finger and telnet protocols for Amstrad CPC computers with an Amstrad, Pace or CPC Amstrad International serial interface. The code occupies about 14K, excluding the serial, filing system and IP buffers. Look at it, it's even got a TFTP server! I could boot my DECstation off it! Add to that an HTTP d?mon, and this seems like the most impressive, non-UNIX- clone 8-bit TCP/IP stack I've seen. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "LART is an acronym for Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool, and is generally a piece of heavy hard material such as a cricket or baseball bat, hunk of pipe, or 2x4 for the fine tuning of a luser's atitude. This is a noun that can be used as a verb. If I say I lart someone, I mean that I am performing delicate tuning procedures upon that persons head utilizing a LART. An ICBM would be considered an agressive LART." From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 9 19:18:15 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX In-Reply-To: <004401c092f5$20db0000$a5749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <924.441T750T1384503optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >From: Iggy Drougge >>I know nothing about the VAX prompt, but I know that "b" or "boot" has >caused >>it to boot before, so I did thus: >> >>What could have caused this? Have I inserted the QBUS card incorrectly? >Or >Not specifying the correct device. " >>> b du" would have been enough to >get it to >search the DU (any MSCP complient disk) for an active drive and attempt >to boot it. First of all, what the hell is MSCP? =) And why does it suddenly boot from the network, when it previously booted from the hard drive at the sole mention of "boot"? >XQAn is eithernet >DUxn {dua, dub...} is the MSCP disk >MUxn is tape typically tk50 Could it be the lacking AUI transceiver that's causing trouble? BTW, does this mean that the II GPX could boot over MOP, or even TFTP? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Keine Grenze verlockt mehr zum Schmuggeln als die Altersgrenze. --- Robert Musil From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 9 19:41:17 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX Message-ID: <006501c09303$d647ab60$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >Thanks, are there any good VAX references on the WWW? All manuals I've been >able to find are ULTRIX manuals, no hardware references. There may be but, I have real ones so I've never looked to see. In the case of booting even the ultrix manuals apply as it's the same booter in rom. Of course once ultrix is in mem the differences are obvious. Allison From cbajpai at mediaone.net Fri Feb 9 20:12:48 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010209080144.00b55630@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Maybe I'm poking my nose where I shouldn't be...this is a bio on the buyer. George Cacioppo Vice President and General Manager Adobe Systems, Inc. George Cacioppo is Vice President and General Manager of the Enterprise Product Division at Adobe Systems Incorporated in San Jose, California. George's organization is reponsible for the development of the Acrobat and Framemaker products and the development of solutions targeting Enterprise information and communications needs. Until recently, George was responsible for the design, introduction, and development of Adobe's architecture for production printing, known as Adobe PostScript Extreme. Its use of Acrobat technology is enabling the industry to move from the traditional "Print and Distribute" workflows to "Distribute and Print" electronic workflows. George joined Adobe in 1992. Previously he was an engineering manager at Digital Equipment Corporation in Maynard, Massachusetts. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jim Battle Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:02 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! At 11:28 PM 2/8/01 -0800, you wrote: >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1207448449 > >$5,100 was the final bid. I wonder if it was actually consumated? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=gcacioppo The feedback says the deal was done. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 9 20:25:53 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX Message-ID: <006f01c0930a$4be41a10$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >First of all, what the hell is MSCP? =) MSCP, Mass Storage Control Protocal. Unlike PCs VAX storage controllers are very smart and do part of the work independant of the interface to the media. It allows a MFM , EIDE or SCSI disk to look and work the same to the OS. >And why does it suddenly boot from the network, when it previously booted from >the hard drive at the sole mention of "boot"? Well, there is nothing to forget in the MVII, no cmos like PCs. The boot sequence is look on the bus for MSCP disk(s) and try to boot each, if that fails try to boot via network, if that fails look for a rom board and try to boot that. If it's failing to find the SCSI board/drive (likely if it tried the net) then you either put the card in the wrong place or the cables on wrong. Q-bus, unlike PCs, has a serial ordered bus grant and interrupt structure. That means if the chain is broken all the devices down the line from the break will not be seen. The only critical devices are disks, NIC and serial ports. >Could it be the lacking AUI transceiver that's causing trouble? No. >BTW, does this mean that the II GPX could boot over MOP, or even TFTP? MOP, yes. TFTP no. Actually MVII is a fairly simple machine. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 9 21:10:56 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: <007c01c0930f$de8785f0$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Chandra Bajpai >George Cacioppo > >George Cacioppo is Vice President and General Manager of the Enterprise >Product Division at Adobe Systems Incorporated in San Jose, California. Small world. I helped George build his first Altair. I have the backplane and a few cards from his H-11 and he got me into programming in Pascal. We go back a bit. Allison From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 9 21:22:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX In-Reply-To: <006f01c0930a$4be41a10$a5749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Iggy Drougge > > >First of all, what the hell is MSCP? =) > > MSCP, Mass Storage Control Protocal. Unlike PCs VAX storage > controllers are very smart and do part of the work independant > of the interface to the media. It allows a MFM , EIDE or SCSI disk > to look and work the same to the OS. Doesn't it on all platforms? I'm not certain about PC circumstances, though. =) > >And why does it suddenly boot from the network, when it previously > booted from > >the hard drive at the sole mention of "boot"? > > Well, there is nothing to forget in the MVII, no cmos like PCs. The boot > sequence is look on the bus for MSCP disk(s) and try to boot each, if > that > fails try to boot via network, if that fails look for a rom board and try > to boot that. Then the HD must have disappeared as far as the VAX is concerned. > If it's failing to find the SCSI board/drive (likely if it tried the net) > then you either > put the card in the wrong place or the cables on wrong. Q-bus, unlike > PCs, > has a serial ordered bus grant and interrupt structure. That means if > the > chain is broken all the devices down the line from the break will not be > seen. > The only critical devices are disks, NIC and serial ports. I inserted the card in the same slot it was in before removal, but could it have been inserted the wrong way? I don't suppose it would matter on which connector on the SCSI cable that the RZ55 was connected? > >BTW, does this mean that the II GPX could boot over MOP, or even TFTP? > > MOP, yes. TFTP no. Great. > Actually MVII is a fairly simple machine. Hm, that depends on your background. ^_^;; From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Feb 9 22:07:21 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX Message-ID: <008501c09316$fbb74730$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >> of the interface to the media. It allows a MFM , EIDE or SCSI disk >> to look and work the same to the OS. > >Doesn't it on all platforms? I'm not certain about PC circumstances, >though. =) Compared MSCP IDE is primitive. >I inserted the card in the same slot it was in before removal, but could >it have been inserted the wrong way? Well if the componenets are oriented like the rest of the boards you have it right. you sure it's pushed all the way in? Are you sure you didn't move it down one or over (across)? Did you insure you didn't accidently pull another card out and not insert it all the way? Did you move and jumpers, switches inadvertantly? It you flipped it over the all important smoke will escape and then you have problems. It's pretty hard to do that. >I don't suppose it would matter on which connector on the SCSI cable that >the RZ55 was connected? Not likely, assuming all the connectors were in good shape. >Hm, that depends on your background. ^_^;; As non PC minicomputers and workstations go it is. Allison From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 9 22:35:53 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX In-Reply-To: <008501c09316$fbb74730$a5749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Iggy Drougge > >> of the interface to the media. It allows a MFM , EIDE or SCSI disk > >> to look and work the same to the OS. > > > >Doesn't it on all platforms? I'm not certain about PC circumstances, > >though. =) > > Compared MSCP IDE is primitive. On the Amiga, IDE is transparent, accessed through scsi.device. Might be confusing if you know you haven't got any SCSI devices, though. =) > >I inserted the card in the same slot it was in before removal, but could > >it have been inserted the wrong way? > > Well if the componenets are oriented like the rest of the boards you have > it right. Hmm... > you sure it's pushed all the way in? Are you sure you didn't move it > down one > or over (across)? Did you insure you didn't accidently pull another card All the slots are filled, so there wasn't much choice. > out > and not insert it all the way? Did you move and jumpers, switches > inadvertantly? No, I mainly took the card out, glanced at it, then proceeded to take the drive on a tour through the house. > It you flipped it over the all important smoke will escape and then you > have problems. > It's pretty hard to do that. I can't recall any smoke either... > >I don't suppose it would matter on which connector on the SCSI cable > that > >the RZ55 was connected? > > Not likely, assuming all the connectors were in good shape. Got to love those paper tabs for pulling. > >Hm, that depends on your background. ^_^;; > > As non PC minicomputers and workstations go it is. In what way? The PC could be considered a simple architecture, too. Not out a user's perspective, but the hardware design is simple, at least if kept at a 1981 level. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Feb 9 23:12:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! References: <007c01c0930f$de8785f0$a5749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <001901c09320$1d702820$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, hopefully he recognizes what a DOG this system is, with its NorthStar controller. It will never have a decent-sized TPA thanks to the memory-mapped controller, and it will never read soft sectored diskettes either. Fortunately, he can probably afford to put up with the associated problems. I advised Tom Bassi to dump the NorthStar stuff any way he could, and, since he had several IMSAI's at the time, this was how he chose to do it. I'm really glad he did so well. You can see from the pictures that he does clean work and keeps things looking good. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 8:10 PM Subject: Re: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! > From: Chandra Bajpai > >George Cacioppo > > > >George Cacioppo is Vice President and General Manager of the Enterprise > >Product Division at Adobe Systems Incorporated in San Jose, California. > > > Small world. I helped George build his first Altair. I have the > backplane > and a few cards from his H-11 and he got me into programming in Pascal. > > We go back a bit. > > Allison > > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Feb 10 02:28:31 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: HP Composite Video Interface Card References: Message-ID: <006701c0933b$7404d080$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> I am using an HP composite video card (98204A) in a 9000/200 series and am getting a very small multiple image on the screen. Is there something special about HP composite video or is this just a bad card? I've tried the card in both a 9000/200 and 9000/220 with the same result. Any ideas? From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Feb 10 03:02:33 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: OT? PS2<->USB In-Reply-To: <14980.32452.494125.348415@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > Microchip recently announced a PIC with a USB interface. I really > like PICs...now I'm gonna put USB in EVERYTHING! Muahhahahaaa!! 8-) The only problem is that if you want to distribute USB devices, you are supposed to buy an (expensive) USB vendor ID from the (supposedly non profit) USB implementors forum. There isn't even an offical ID for "experimental" or "locally assigned" products (or there wasn't the last time I looked). For some reason they seem to be actively trying to prevent USB becoming popular except with large companies that can afford to be a member of their select group (it is possible to simply buy a product ID, but they don't advertise the fact at all because they want you to pay a large annual fee for full membership instead). Somebody ought to buy a vendor ID, and then sell the individual product IDs to hobbyists and self employed developers for $5 each or something... -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Feb 10 03:10:22 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: HP Composite Video Interface Card References: <006701c0933b$7404d080$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007101c09341$5936e120$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> I should have mentioned that I am using an Apple 9" mono composite monitor, not an HP model such as a 82912 or 82914. > I am using an HP composite video card (98204A) in a > 9000/200 series and am getting a very small multiple > image on the screen. Is there something special about > HP composite video or is this just a bad card? I've > tried the card in both a 9000/200 and 9000/220 with the > same result. Any ideas? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Feb 10 03:35:42 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: A2024/Viking Moniterm (was Re: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga develop ment)) In-Reply-To: References: <20010209143756.D17486@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Feb 9, 1 02:37:56 pm Message-ID: >> Several years ago I worked for someone who had a few dozen surplus >> Moniterm 19" monitors, and most of them needed the same repair - the > >The Moniterm monitors that I've come across are 19" monochrome units. >They were used on the landscape version of the PERQ 2 machines. They >appear to be a Moniterm circuit board with a PERQ systems PSU (well, >transformer + rectifier + cap) and connector bracket. When my Mac II was still new I bought a Moniterm monitor for it, couple grand as I remember for the nubus card and monochrome display. It lasted a couple years, just long enough for the company to go belly up, and trying to get it fixed was among the worst service experiences I had. (idiot video shop had no clue, or mac to even test the thing, never fixed it, finally "lost" it). I did learn a few things. Monitor Services, or something like that is/was still around with some replacement parts and service. Typical ex employees bought up the spares and went into business thing. Moniterm made a lot of different monitors, many were specials or OEM units, but they may "look" all the same and be VERY different inside. I still have a couple cards for I think two different models used with Nubus macs. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Feb 10 03:44:23 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: HP Composite Video Interface Card In-Reply-To: <007101c09341$5936e120$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <006701c0933b$7404d080$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >I should have mentioned that I am using an Apple 9" >mono composite monitor, not an HP model such as a 82912 >or 82914. > >> I am using an HP composite video card (98204A) in a >> 9000/200 series and am getting a very small multiple >> image on the screen. Is there something special >about >> HP composite video or is this just a bad card? I've >> tried the card in both a 9000/200 and 9000/220 with >the >> same result. Any ideas? My guess is that composite video does not equal RS170 or whatever "standard" NTSC video is. Sounds like this card is a much higher refresh rate etc. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Feb 10 04:01:04 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: [OT] SCSI termination trouble? In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: [OT] SCSI termination trouble?" (Feb 10, 1:06) References: <760.441T700T664821optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10102101001.ZM26277@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 10, 1:06, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >The boot drive normally IS at ID=0, however. That's a real convention > >throughout the SCSI usage. I don't recall ever seeing a system that would > >boot, say, from ID=4. Most PC's will promote the ID=1 device to the boot > >rank, but not if ID=0 is present but manlfunctioning. YMMV, of course. > > IBM, OTOH, goes according to the SCSI standard and boots from the highest ID > and downwards. The standard doesn't require or suggest that. What it does say is that the highest numbered ID has highest priority, but it means that in terms of which device has highest priority in getting the controller's attention. So it's sensible to put devices that mustn't be kept waiting, like some CD writers or tapes, at high IDs, though it's less important with many modern, smarter devices with bufferring. I've never understood why PCs put the controller at ID 7 (highest priority) since it makes no difference to a controller. Unless you have a system with more than one controller, where one has to catch the other's attention, like a couple of multihost SCSI systems I've seen. > Besides, everything I've heard about PC SCSI seems utterly ridiculous and > stone-age. :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ecloud at bigfoot.com Sat Feb 10 04:51:18 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:36 2005 Subject: A2024/Viking Moniterm (was Re: Amiga Unix (was: Amiga develop ment)) In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 01:35:42AM -0800 References: <20010209143756.D17486@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <20010210035118.G17486@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Sat, Feb 10, 2001 at 01:35:42AM -0800, Mike Ford wrote: > When my Mac II was still new I bought a Moniterm monitor for it, couple > grand as I remember for the nubus card and monochrome display. It lasted a > couple years, just long enough for the company to go belly up, and trying Yep, they got used with Macs. The one I got has been reliable, after I replaced those transistors. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From at258 at osfn.org Sat Feb 10 08:48:08 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: latest finds In-Reply-To: <10102101001.ZM26277@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: I was out and about yesterday and ran across a couple of items: Introduction to Computer Programming for the Social Sciences (1973) It seems a significant portion of the programs included were developed on a Raytheon 706, even though the programs generally are for and IBM 360 IBM System/370 Principles of Operation (1981) Not quite pristine, but it looks like it spent most of its life sitting around somehwere. The spine mastic is broken, but it doesn't look like it was ever put into a binder. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Feb 10 11:41:28 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX Message-ID: <009401c09389$903e0480$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >In what way? The PC could be considered a simple architecture, too. Not >out a user's perspective, but the hardware design is simple, at least if >kept at a 1981 level. What makes PCs complex is the standards creep, since most PC standards were ignored or poorly implemented things that should work often didn't or did only after a fashon. For vaxen especally the Qbus models the ruls were very narrow and it was enforced internal to DEC and Protocals like MSCP were patented if a third party wanted to do it it's implementation was generally good. Now the likely thing is you either did an ESD hit to something or while pushing/pulling something you may have altered a switch, jumper or maybe puped a chip loose. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Feb 10 11:49:03 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: <00ab01c0938b$3713de00$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >Well, hopefully he recognizes what a DOG this system is, Since he knows the NS horizon and altair with MDS-A (mine back in the 70s) he may just have an appreciation for how good it was compared to it's contemporary peers. >with its NorthStar >controller. It will never have a decent-sized TPA thanks to the >memory-mapped controller, and it will never read soft sectored diskettes First your comments on the lack of TPA are unfounded and incorrect. Even with the poor implmentation of V1.4 (Lifeboat) the TPA was 52k and with the later V2.2 version 58k was easily done. For most CP/M apps of the time 48-56k was plenty. As to reading soft sector, Irrelevant. >either. Fortunately, he can probably afford to put up with the associated >problems. Irrelevent. He may also know that there is also very good support for that configuration, still. Allison From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 10 11:55:05 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: HP Composite Video Interface Card In-Reply-To: "Wayne M. Smith"'s message of "Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:28:31 -0800" References: <006701c0933b$7404d080$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200102101755.f1AHt5467295@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > I am using an HP composite video card (98204A) in a > 9000/200 series and am getting a very small multiple > image on the screen. Is there something special about > HP composite video or is this just a bad card? I've > tried the card in both a 9000/200 and 9000/220 with the > same result. Any ideas? Just a wild guess, but if you have an HP 35731A monochrome monitor, try it with that. That wants composite video but with a horizontal frequency of 30KHz instead of the more usual 15KHz. HP used that on several different systems. There may also be a jumper on the video card to select the horizontal frequency, but the only thing I ever saw this on was the HP Multimode Display Adapter for the Vectra (sort of a combination of the IBM MDA and CGA that was good for confusing "smart" software). -Frank McConnell From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 10 12:39:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! References: <00ab01c0938b$3713de00$a5749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000f01c09391$426aa440$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! > From: Richard Erlacher > > > >Well, hopefully he recognizes what a DOG this system is, > > Since he knows the NS horizon and altair with MDS-A (mine back > in the 70s) he may just have an appreciation for how good it was > compared to it's contemporary peers. > > >with its NorthStar > >controller. It will never have a decent-sized TPA thanks to the > >memory-mapped controller, and it will never read soft sectored diskettes > > First your comments on the lack of TPA are unfounded and incorrect. > Even with the poor implmentation of V1.4 (Lifeboat) the TPA was 52k > and with the later V2.2 version 58k was easily done. For most CP/M apps > of the time 48-56k was plenty. > I don't see how you can say that they're unfounded. Since the FDC sits at 0xE000 that puts an upper limit on the TPA. Memory mapping the FDC was, from what I observed back when it was relevant, just about the most stupid, Stupid, STUPID thing one using a Z80 could do. It helped nothing, save perhaps some wiredosity of their equally silly choice to use hard-sectoring, clearly designed to lock users into their scheme of things once they had them, AND, considering when they came out with it, it prevented the average user from utilizing the more popular software packages, which, because of the timing, were too large to run in the small TPA. Remember, they wanted their customers to run NDOS, not CP/M, and CP/M required a contiguous memory span up to the BIOS. The BIOS itself, of course, could use memory ABOVE the controller and EPROM if there was any. Of course, NorthStar didn't support that solution. At the time, if you had an application that was coded in MT+, which was VERY popular at the time, it required at least a 56K TPA. Now, the TPA was the part of memory that lay BELOW the BDOS. If you load something at 0100 and run it up to 0xE000, there's no room for BDOS or BIOS. That's why, at that point in time, until later when the popular compilers were rewritten to support overlays, machines like the NorthStar and some from Vector Graphics, both of which were famous for their small TPA's, were pretty much useless. > > As to reading soft sector, Irrelevant. > Well. not exactly. If you didn't mind that you couldn't use anything but NorthStar-formatted media, you could survive, but there was no chance at all of having any media interchange with anyone without a NorthStar controller. I bought three NorthStar systems for $1 each and donated them to the Boy Scout troop a friend of mine was running back in '80. The complaint with which I got them was that there was no way to use them because the TPA was too small and because you could not read standard media. Rememver, Allison, the CP/M diskette standard, and there is only one, is 8" IBM 3740-formatted SOFT sectored single-sided ... > > >either. Fortunately, he can probably afford to put up with the > associated > >problems. > > > Irrelevent. He may also know that there is also very good support for > ^ Have you ever considered using a spell-checker? > that configuration, still. > really? Where? > > Allison > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Feb 10 13:14:04 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: HP Composite Video Interface Card References: <006701c0933b$7404d080$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> <200102101755.f1AHt5467295@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <001a01c09395$a3408a60$efeab3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > I am using an HP composite video card (98204A) in a > > 9000/200 series and am getting a very small multiple > > image on the screen. Is there something special about > > HP composite video or is this just a bad card? I've > > tried the card in both a 9000/200 and 9000/220 with the > > same result. Any ideas? > > Just a wild guess, but if you have an HP 35731A monochrome monitor, > try it with that. That wants composite video but with a horizontal > frequency of 30KHz instead of the more usual 15KHz. HP used that on > several different systems. > > There may also be a jumper on the video card to select the > horizontal frequency, but the only thing I ever saw this on was > the HP Multimode Display Adapter for the Vectra (sort of a > combination of the IBM MDA and CGA that was good for confusing > "smart" software). > > -Frank McConnell > > Thanks, Frank. There were two switches on the card (actually called "composite video interface") and I tried all four combinations. With one setting I got garbage. With the other three, the small multi-screen look, but still very hard to read. I have a few security monitors in the garage that I'll look at to see if they're the right frequency. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 10 14:07:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: HP Composite Video Interface Card In-Reply-To: <006701c0933b$7404d080$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Feb 10, 1 00:28:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010210/567ceaea/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Feb 10 14:11:58 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: <00c401c0939f$0adcf5b0$a5749a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >0xE000 that puts an upper limit on the TPA. Memory mapping the FDC was, >from what I observed back when it was relevant, just about the most stupid, >Stupid, STUPID thing one using a Z80 could do. It helped nothing, save >perhaps some wiredosity of their equally silly choice to use hard-sectoring, Your applying 2001 logic to a design that was complete in 1976. In 1976 do you think you could do better and cheaper? If you say yes remember I have icom fdos and also worked with TRS80 and NONE in 1977 had anything near that for the same or similar bucks. >them, AND, considering when they came out with it, it prevented the average >user from utilizing the more popular software packages, which, because of >the timing, were too large to run in the small TPA. Remember, they wanted Never prevented me from running ANY of them with a 56k tpa. Most ran well in 48k. The only one that wanted a larger TPA then 48k was SMALLC V2 compiler as the optimizer wanted more space. Lessee by 1981 64k of ram was still around $499 for dynamic and static was about $600 so there were people that weren't into the must have a full box to do things. >their customers to run NDOS, not CP/M, and CP/M required a contiguous memory No they would later support and implement CPM. They also had in 1978 UCSD Psystem with Pascal for $50 (bargan in my eyes). NSDOS was a far lower cost (both in footprint and $$$) OS than cpm and unlike cp/m came with a decent interpreted disk basic. The closest thing to that cost 150$ for CP/M and $$350 from MS (disk basic, compiler was $500). >span up to the BIOS. The BIOS itself, of course, could use memory ABOVE the >controller and EPROM if there was any. Of course, NorthStar didn't support >that solution. At the time, if you had an application that was coded in They didn't have to support it and for many that was not a requirement. >MT+, which was VERY popular at the time, it required at least a 56K TPA. >Now, the TPA was the part of memory that lay BELOW the BDOS. If you load TPA was the space BELOW THE BIOS and E7FFh is 59k into a possible 64k! >something at 0100 and run it up to 0xE000, there's no room for BDOS or BIOS. >That's why, at that point in time, until later when the popular compilers >were rewritten to support overlays, machines like the NorthStar and some >from Vector Graphics, both of which were famous for their small TPA's, were >pretty much useless. Your saying I didn't run MS basic-80 compiler, smallc, TurboPascal, BDS-C Cbasic, Multiplan, Dbase then? Oh thats right it was not doable. Most of that stuff only wanted 48k though it ran well on my 56k system. >Well. not exactly. If you didn't mind that you couldn't use anything but >NorthStar-formatted media, you could survive, but there was no chance at all >of having any media interchange with anyone without a NorthStar controller. Prior to about 1982 that was not only not an issue it was irrelevent. Back in that era running softsector was often not much help as everyone ran something different format wise. >I bought three NorthStar systems for $1 each and donated them to the Boy >Scout troop a friend of mine was running back in '80. The complaint with >which I got them was that there was no way to use them because the TPA was >too small and because you could not read standard media. Thats your fault not the system. Like I said I was running 56-58k TPA off an unmodded copy of LIFEBOAT CP/MV1.4. When I moved to using 2.2 I put the bios above the controller for a very nice 59k TPA with hard disk support. I'll agree that putting the FDC at F800 (NS offered roms for that, I have them) would have been more convenient but E800 was not a significant handicap. Actually if you wanted to burn your own roms it was easy to do. The media problem in the early 80s was not so much standard media but the idea there was even such a thing. That would persist until PCs wiped evrything else out now we only had 360k, 1.2m, 720k, 1.44, ZIP disk and Cdrom to confuse the issue. >Rememver, Allison, >the CP/M diskette standard, and there is only one, is 8" IBM 3740-formatted >SOFT sectored single-sided ... Well, since I have the NS horizon I built in 1978 I dont need to remember. I know! Yes, 8" SSSD was the standard save for it was expensive, large, noisy, hot and only gave you 256k. I know, I supported it and still do. An SA801 and controller was easily $400 more expensive in late 76! Even if you had softsector 5.25" that didn't mean you did support 8" though many could. In 1977 NS* it allowed people with on 16 or 32k to run Basic and a disk OS which was a mostly useless config for CP/M. Then again in 1977(late) 32k of ram was around $800(kit, 900-1000 assembled and tested). I still have a Intergrand dual 8" full height box. it's loud, noisy and nearly as big as the S100 crate above it. I also have a HZ-207 box with two 1/2 height 8" 2sided DC motor drives and it's still big and weighs a ton. >> Irrelevent. He may also know that there is also very good support for >> ^ Have you ever considered using a spell-checker? Here we go again. if opinion doesnt work then attack the spelling. Sorry, just like your editor doesnt support clipping off unwanted text mine does not support a decent spell checker (if there were one for PCs). >really? Where? Good support is: few of the historical systems are as to easy to find docs, software and working hardware for. Also if the hardware doesnt work it's easy to repair with common ttl. It's one of the few configs that exists 20 years later as can be made to work easily. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 10 16:10:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: HP Composite Video Interface Card In-Reply-To: <006701c0933b$7404d080$ece9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Feb 10, 1 00:28:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 872 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010210/824dfd30/attachment.ksh From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Sat Feb 10 15:58:03 2001 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Memorex 2374-81R Message-ID: <87snlmuro4.fsf@yodacity.local> Hi. I've just bought this box, Memorex 2374-81R, at a local junkyard, without having the faintest idea of what it was. A white box, with a 3.5in floppy, several BNC connectors at the back, and two RS-232 DB25 connectors. Well, at that time I suspected it was some kind of networking device, e.g. ethernet router? (<-- wishful thinking) hub? switch? After a google search I found out it is some kind of TELEX machine. It came with a floppy (damaged) with a label on it saying "CORREEIROS SYSTEM-EDS" (correeiros is a mispelling of "correios" which means the main snail-mail enterprise in portugal). It makes sense to me that post-offices could use telex. I want all information I can get about this machine, and telex technology in general. I'd be much appreciated for any links anyone could send me. Thank you. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 10 17:10:26 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Available: Rackmount SCSI Drive Enclosures Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010210151026.0099beb0@192.168.42.129> CC'd to CLASSICCMP and port-sparc: I have available two rackmount enclosures for SCSI drives. They're built very robustly, can accomodate two drives each (5.25" full-height, or 3.5" with mounting adapters), have built-in power, cooling, and ID switches for each socket, and they include mounting sleds for the drives. Asking $10 each, original drives included. The original drives are Seagate ST4706ND (differential SCSI), and I believe the enclosures were once part of a Control Data storage subsystem of some kind. In any case, I need to move them out of here. If I don't get any responses from either mailing list, they'll go to the Puyallup swap meet with me. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From r.stek at snet.net Sat Feb 10 18:25:48 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:12:50 -0700 >From: "Richard Erlacher" >Subject: Re: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! > >Well, hopefully he recognizes what a DOG this system is, with its NorthStar >controller. There you go, needlessly trashing N*'s again! You must have been bitten by a hard-sectored disk when you were small. NorthStar responded when hobbyists who couldn't afford 8" drives wanted a disk drive for their Imsai's and Altairs. They were VERY popular and well supported. Their boards and systems were well done and reliable. They even provided a hardware floating point board for number crunchers long before other vendors. NorthStar's own DOS and BASIC were probably initially brought up on more Altairs and Imsai's than CP/M was as a first OS. It was a very usable BASIC with BCD arithmetic and cleaner random access file handling than Microsoft BASIC ever had. Sure, CP/M became THE OS of the day, but N* DOS was there first. The Horizon supported CP/M 1.4 and later 2.2 was distributed by NorthStar. And take a look at Walnut Creek's CP/M CD-ROM - just figure out the percentage of the CD-ROM that concerns itself with NorthStar, CP/M or otherwise, and compare it with the support for other computers which supported an OS other than CP/M. It will never have a decent-sized TPA thanks to the >memory-mapped controller, Pure nonsense! Even without moving the boot-prom, (an option supported by NorthStar or a simple mod for users of the day which would give you a 62k CP/M system), NorthStar's and Lifeboat's and SAIL Systems's CP/M would give you a 56k or 58k system with the standard boot ROM. I NEVER found a CP/M program I couldn't run in 56k, and I ran ALL the popular CP/M programs - dBASE, WordStar, BDS C, SuperCalc, FORTRAN, various Pascals (including N*'s own version of UCSD Pascal, though not under CP/M), SpellGuard, etc. and it will never read soft sectored diskettes >either. Fortunately, he can probably afford to put up with the associated >problems. Never had any problems - just perceived that way by folks too rigid to take other than the soft-sectored path! And NorthStar was popular enough that when George Morrow designed his DJ-DMA controller, he supplied a BIOS for it that could read and write both N*'s hard-sectored format as well as other soft-sector formats. That was the main reason I got a Morrow Decision I. It wasn't until late in the CP/M game that utilities began to appear for reading other manufacturer's formats. I added a Morrow Disk Jockey 2 board to add my 8" drives to my Horizon in order to transfer the standard SSSD 8" CP/M formatted disks - the ONLY standard for CP/M. Even soft-sectored 5" formats were specific to their manufacturer. > >I advised Tom Bassi to dump the NorthStar stuff any way he could, and, since >he had several IMSAI's at the time, this was how he chose to do it. I'm >really glad he did so well. I am glad he did well, too, despite your advice. (hi, Tom!) You can see from the pictures that he does >clean work and keeps things looking good. > >Dick Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Feb 10 19:16:58 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Memorex 2374-81R Message-ID: Umm the only way Telex is related would be in the company name, e.g. Memorex-Telex... It's an IBM 3270-compatible controller, probably compatible with a 3274, guessing from the model number.. If you don't have an IBM minicomputer or mainframe, it really isn't useful for much of anything. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From optimus at canit.se Sat Feb 10 20:22:25 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: GG2 bus Message-ID: <301.442T1250T2024559optimus@canit.se> A while ago, there was someone on this list withan overwhelming stock of Goldengate bridgeboards. Could that person please get in touch with me? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "I believe OS/2 is destined to be the most important operating system, and possibly program, of all time..." Bill Gates 1988 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Feb 10 21:46:19 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: <002e01c093de$72b262d0$a5749a8d@ajp166> >You need to get your timing straight, Allison. If you take 1976 as a timing >reference, there wasn't any sort of 'C' compiler on the horizon for CP/M or, Right C wasn't 1976 then again I never said it was. The assertion was that in 1976 you could do better. Could you? I asserted that using the 1976 design for many years later I did run C, pascal, Cbasic, Mbasic, multiplan and even dbase. This still runs counter to the idea that that the NS design could not do useful work. It's not me hacking the design, others did it with minimal effort on stock hardware. It makes little difference that those may not have existed in 1976 (very little did) it's the idea that the design did work and a 56k TPA was easily done. >for that matter, for NDOS. I don't think 5-1/4" disk drives were cheap >enough for NorthStar in '76 either. There weren't many of them around. In November 1976, $599, Mastercharge Card, LI Computer in Manhassett Li. For that I got a MDS-A controller, 1 SA400 and their DOS and BASIC. At that time another SA400 was about 400$ and 8" drive was $699 plus the then typical 8" drive required a bigger more complex power supply. The NS Horizon machine (complete S100 crate) was later. I did over the years run every thing under the CP/M sun on it. >fact, I don't think anybody I knew at the time had a CP/M version beyond >1.4. The NorthStar stuff was pretty common by late '77, but the >compiler-generated software I'm referring to was released in '77-'78. Not news to me. >However, much more basic is the absolute fact that you can't have a 56K TPA >if the available addressable memory space below the FDC is limited to 56K >because the FDC sits there. Even if the BIOS were of zero length, the BDOS >isn't, and even if the BDOS were of zero length as well, you'd still have to >allow for the bottom 256 bytes, which don't figure into the TPA. The FDC resides at 0xE800!!!!! Faulty math! 64k minus the 4k (f000h) is 60k and then minus 2k (e800 to efff) is 58k. Single density bios of 2k is was no big deal. so with 8k in use or unavailable your down to 56k... or is 64-8 not 56k? >You're right about the cost of memory in 1976, and, in fact, I'd say it cost >quite a bit more than what you suggest in '76, since the 4116's cost about >$80 per chip in '76. Getting eight of them wasn't easy either since they >weren't in full production until late '77. I know I'm right, I was there buying it. I had 56k of seals and PT static (2102) 8kx8 ram cards in the crate. My first 64k dynamic card was 1980 paid $199 for the board sans ram (I had a source). >Several competitors did! Now, you picked this 1976 timeline, so please >stick to it! What you did in '78 isn't relevant because it was a wholly >different world then. The 76 timeline is the design date of the FDC. The point to repeat it was can you using 1976 technology do better than 600$ for a minifloppy SYSTEM with dos and basic? No it was I was doing by 1978 based on my 1976 hardware. >The TRS-80 Model 1 came out in late '77 didn't it? First significant quantities were september 1977. >> in 48k. The only one that wanted a larger TPA then 48k was SMALLC V2 >> compiler as the optimizer wanted more space. >> >SmallC didn't exist then ... The date is not important as I ran it later on the same hardware. Your trying to weasel your way to a different place. You have asserted that NS MDS-A system was a dog. I assert your full of faulty data and that by 1976 hardware standards it was it was a good design that would held up well for many years. By then NS* had replaced it with a double density version that interoperated with older version well yet extended the useable storage. I'd also assert that the ICOM FDOS system I have (same timeframe) using the venerable 1771 was a true dog as it was slow, with rom at B800 and even less software (barely a dos). It was also only good for 71kb of storage on a SA400. The NS MDS-A did much better at 82k of space on the same drive. Anyhow I still have he ICOM junker in the collection to remind me of a real dog. >> >in '81, 64K of 4116's cost much less than $100. Mostly useless as they were loose parts and not a board or kit. I can pull down catalogs, Byte, Interface age and all for prices. S100 cards complete, of reliable design were not $100 for 64k until the sell out days of the mid to late 80s. >> Psystem with Pascal for $50 (bargan in my eyes). >> >UCSD Pascal, while a decent system, wouldn't run standard CP/M applications. Unimportant. At the time it represented a non CP/M system and a real HLL for peanuts that did run on small hardware. At the time that was pretty radical. Also there was a version of Psystem that ram using CP/M (not NS*). >The NorthStar controllers I saw were all shipped at 0xE000 with a boot rom >that didn't find them anywhere else. Nope that was nonstandard then. Standard was E800h I've never seen one even nonstandard that low most of the custom roms version were F000 or F800. I'd attribute that to error or bad memory. >That's not exactly what I'm saying, but, in 1976, you couldn't run >TurboPascal because it didn't exist, nor did BDS-C. Well certainly your opinion. Like I said earlier I ran them when they became available on that old useless, as you say, hardware with a real 56k TPA I ram them. I STILL RUN IT, I ahve the docs, I dont have to rely on memory >That's not relevant, >though, because those compilers and interpreters don't represent useful >work. Again your opinion. For many those did represent useful tools for building business apps. >People who bought a computer in 1976 generally justified it on the basis >that they would use it to perform useful work. Programming was overhead to >everyone except the .001% of the folks out there who were engaged in >creating software. Save for in 1976 there was very little software at the applications level. so many apps were home grown. What year was Visicalc introduced? >Useful work involved running Word Processing, Accounting, Payroll, and >Inventory Control software, Order Entry, printing reports, checks, billing, >cost tracking, shipping label/mailing list processing, etc. That sort of >work required you have some memory available since you had to sort and >search quite a bit. I know, it's how I make a living. I was using my altair to run a daprtment payroll and all back then. It's where my appreciation for reliable hardware came from. >> Prior to about 1982 that was not only not an issue it was irrelevent. >> Back in that era running softsector was often not much help as >> everyone ran something different format wise. >> >How about an example, referenced to your 1976 timeline? I don't believe I >even saw a 5-1/4" drive until '77. They were probably out there, but not of >any particular interest. On the other hand, 8" drives, priced around $350, >were everywhere, and controllers that used them were not expensive. They were of no interest as they were bare. Without a controller to make it work it was not an attraction. However NS*, ICOM, and a few others were by were by fall of 1976 selling product FDC and Drives. Then again finding a 8" drive in 1976 for $350 would ahve been a windfall and non of my Bytes or old catalogs support it. >> support. >> >I don't see how you did that when the FDC lived at 0xE000. Simple, it doesnt. It's standard address, E800h. >> would have been more convenient but E800 was not a significant handicap. >> Actually if you wanted to burn your own roms it was easy to do. >> >That certainly wasn't an option in 1976. Yes it was. The parts used were not mask parts, they are AIM and fuse link low density stuff. The most complex part on the board was a 256x4 (74S287) prom. The address was set by a one 74S287 prom as an address decoder. >> An SA801 and controller was easily $400 more expensive in late 76! >> >That's why you built the Northstar in '78. Try sticking with your timeline. >You picked it after all ... I bought the MDS-A and SA400 in 76!, NS* Z80 board in march 1977. I used it in the flaky Altair till the NS* Horizon chassis was available to me '78. Your trying to duck out of the issue. >> as big as the S100 crate above it. I also have a HZ-207 box with two 1/2 >> height 8" 2sided DC motor drives and it's still big and weighs a ton. >> >My Integrand box has the two drives in it, together with the carcdage and >power supply. Most of the noise is from the fans. I gave one of those away. The AC motors of the SA801s tend to be loud too. >What you did or were able to do in '78 had no effect on what was going on in >'76, yet you keep making these forward references. The fact that the N* What I did with the 1976 reference was to say this... could you do a better fdc design using 1976 technology then they did. After that you adotped the date to justify anything that doesnt suit your assertion of facts that have no support. I have the hardware multiple examples plus original docs and my notebooks to fall on. Oh yes, I'm hardcore engineer. That translates too if you didn't write it down it never existed. So as a result even my hobby hacking is documented in scores of quad ruled notbooks. What I was doing in 1978 was using 1976 hardware, it is the point. Your trying to find a way to justify your arguement that something was not good at the time because you didn't understand it or didn't bother to. Your comment that in the early 80s the Boy Scouts couldnt use them runs counter to my comment that in that exact same time frame I did {as did others} run them with loads of heavy apps. >couldn't use them because they were shipped in an inadequate configuration >in '76. If you'll draw yourself a timeline of the various events that are >involved here, you'll see why the 56K memory map was inadequate for the >"serious" business software of the mid-late 70's. That was ultimately fixed >with a compiler release that suppported smaller MID 70s is 1975, Altair (introduction was january 1975 Pop tronics) was still very new and disks were limited to the PDP-8 and PDP-11 folks that were paying lots more than Altair prices. As to 56k not being enough in the 70s... even the average PDP-11 then was huge at 128k. Most people I know were quite happy to have 56k in the late 70s on any hardware. What was truely important to business users was adaquate relaible mass storage and floppies were barely it. Serious users wanted and paid dearly for hard disks. Now if you wanted to be pandantic in 1976 you likely paid $295 (that would be mid year) per 8k of ram, 56k represented ~$2100!!! late 70s, say 1978-79 was when the microcomputer folks were discovering disks and trying to make them work for a living. Floppies were seen as important tot his but any business user will tellyou that a real hard disk was the killer hardware. Just like Visicalc was a killer app. Allison From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Feb 10 22:16:59 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Great HP Finds Message-ID: <00ba01c093e1$7ca6ba40$f2731fd1@default> With back down to the warehouse today and found a Intel 286 and 8088 CPU emulation units. I got both for very little money. Got a IBM 370 Plasma flat screen Type 3290-2 very cheap. On the HP side I got the following items: - 10277B General Purpose Probe Interface unit, with manuals - board wired for OPT 001 configuration - 1615A Logic Analyzer - 10066A HP-IB Probe Interface unit with doc's - A box of probes and cables, have not looked into it yet. Also got some Burroughs items. Three large boxes full of manuals and software. Also some early Mac stuff. Will get a fuller list later. John Keys From william.webb at juno.com Sun Feb 11 22:30:22 2001 From: william.webb at juno.com (William W Webb) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <20010211.233025.265.0.william.webb@juno.com> >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:41:17 -0500 >From: "ajp166" > Subject: Re: SCSI trouble on a MicroVAX IIGPX >>From: Iggy Drougge >>Thanks, are there any good VAX references on the WWW? All manuals I've > >been >>able to find are ULTRIX manuals, no hardware references. Iggy- Compaq has OpenVMS documentation online: http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html I've put the VAXstation 3100 Model 76 Owner's Guide online: http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-i.html Jim Agnew keeps the MicroVAX/VAXstation FAQ at: http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html William W. Webb (for whom VMS has provided food and shelter for over a decade) >There may be but, I have real ones so I've never looked to see. >In the case of booting even the ultrix manuals apply as it's the same >booter in rom. Of course once ultrix is in mem the differences are >obvious. >Allison ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Feb 11 02:33:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: EGA-VGA adapter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A friend of mine sent me this message, but I really don't have a clue about EGA "intensity" or how to wire the adapter. Suggestions? I believe I'm making an EGA-VGA adapter. I found the pinouts on http://www.monitorworld.com/faq_pages/q17_page.html The problem I find is that VGA is analogue and EGA is/was TTL based (digital) VGA (HDB15) --- 1 Red 2 Green 3 Blue 4 Sense 2 5 Self Test/TTL Ground 6 Red Ground 7 Green Ground 8 Blue Ground 9 Key 10 Logic/Sync Ground 11 Sense 0 12 Sense 1 13 Horizontal Sync 14 Vertical Sync 15 Sense 3 EGA (DB9) --- 1 Ground 2 Ground 3 Red 4 Green 5 Blue 6 Intensity 7 No Connection 8 Horizontal sync 9 Vertical sync So I figure I can safely map (EGA-VGA) 1,2 - 5 (Grounds on EGA to TTL ground on VGA) 3 - 1 (red) 4 - 2 (green) 5 - 3 (blue) 8 - 13 (H-sync) 9 - 14 (V-sync) See, now theres still the 6th pin on the DB9 - intensity. I have no clue what to do with this. I figured it was safe to connect the two grounds on the DB9 to the TTL ground on the HDB15. Do you have any suggestions about this? From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Feb 11 09:20:35 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: New find : hacked and modified Hyperion computer Message-ID: <001201c0943e$2ee1b140$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi Well, it was $35 and someone had used a hack saw (or similar) to make a rough hole and install a 360K half height floppy in place of the original bottom one but I guess I could not pass it up for some odd reason. But what I found inside was a bit more interesting: Someone had made a small rack to fit 2 ISA 8 bit cards and managed to install a memory card, HD controller card, another fan and a MFM HD...so the machine now has 640k ram. Obviously not Hyperion installed (unless thats the way they worked) and kinda smart in the way the person used the minimal space in there to fit all of that... There is a small card that soldered to the expansion connector port of the hyperion (from the inside) I cant remember the name of the company now but it was not Hyperion...there is a ribbon cable that goes to over the monitor and the 2 isa slot are there... The original (320k IIRC) drives are missing, it gives a memory error on post (already fixed now bad ram chip...), CRT could be a bit more bright but has no burn (cranked up brightness preset it was at minimum - nice now) , but I am still glad I found one of these...they look a bit more common around here since they were built in Canada....seem quite rare everywhere else... Guy said he would give me money back if I could not fix it and decided to bring it back...within a week... If anybody has parts -front panel and original drive(s)?- I might be interested to bring this thing back to original shape or close to...If not, well I will probably fix the rough hole by making a nice platic plate to fix that terrrible hack job that defaces the poor thing...the hole that was made there is so rough its a shame.... Might put up pics on my web site of this hacked thing (inside and out) before I redo everything and make it nice...if anybody sounds interested... Claude Canuk Computer Collector -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010211/e41621e7/attachment.html From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 11 10:45:13 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Toshiba 420 CDT help Message-ID: One last post... anyone on The List have any detailed tech info on the Toshiba 420CDT laptop? I managed to fry the PSU in mine, and I'd like to see if it's worth buying a replacement [$45 +%65 duty +shipping]. If I just could get the actual output voltage/current that would be of help. Here in Southern India, most computer 'service' is module replacement. When things made from Unobtainium break, one warms up the soldering iron and 'does the needful' as they say... Cheerz and Thanks John From louiss at gate.net Sun Feb 11 11:26:14 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: EGA-VGA adapter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200102111726.MAA109946@flathead.gate.net> Yes, leave "intensity" unattached. If you are lucky, you will get a picture with 8 colors that otherwise looks OK. Chances are you will get nothing worth looking at, because you will not have addressed the sync issue correctly. Why don't you just spend $20 and get the right kind of monitor? Fundamentally, EGA and VGA are not compatible (but yes you might get an acceptable picture). Best advice: fogetaboutit. Louis On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:33:59 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >A friend of mine sent me this message, but I really don't have a clue about >EGA "intensity" or how to wire the adapter. Suggestions? > >I believe I'm making an EGA-VGA adapter. > >I found the pinouts on http://www.monitorworld.com/faq_pages/q17_page.html >The problem I find is that VGA is analogue and EGA is/was TTL based (digital) > >VGA (HDB15) >--- > 1 Red > 2 Green > 3 Blue > 4 Sense 2 > 5 Self Test/TTL Ground > 6 Red Ground > 7 Green Ground > 8 Blue Ground > 9 Key >10 Logic/Sync Ground >11 Sense 0 >12 Sense 1 >13 Horizontal Sync >14 Vertical Sync >15 Sense 3 > >EGA (DB9) >--- >1 Ground >2 Ground >3 Red >4 Green >5 Blue >6 Intensity >7 No Connection >8 Horizontal sync >9 Vertical sync > > >So I figure I can safely map (EGA-VGA) >1,2 - 5 (Grounds on EGA to TTL ground on VGA) >3 - 1 (red) >4 - 2 (green) >5 - 3 (blue) >8 - 13 (H-sync) >9 - 14 (V-sync) > >See, now theres still the 6th pin on the DB9 - intensity. I have no >clue what to do with this. I figured it was safe to connect the two >grounds on the DB9 to the TTL ground on the HDB15. > >Do you have any suggestions about this? > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Feb 11 12:07:05 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: EGA-VGA adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010211095534.0293ceb0@208.226.86.10> At 12:33 AM 2/11/01 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >A friend of mine sent me this message, but I really don't have a clue about >EGA "intensity" or how to wire the adapter. Suggestions? > >I believe I'm making an EGA-VGA adapter. > >I found the pinouts on http://www.monitorworld.com/faq_pages/q17_page.html >The problem I find is that VGA is analogue and EGA is/was TTL based (digital) This is exactly right. TTL vs analog. Most multisyncs will do the EGA scan frequencies. You should be able to create a circuit that looks something like: |\ R -----+ >-------\/\/\--+----- Red out | |/ R1 | | | | +-----+ | +-+ | | | AND +---\/\/\--+ Intensity -+ | R2 +-----+ And repeat it for each color. (intensity is common to all of them) This way you get three colors from each 'gun' with The following truth table: Red Int Output 0 0 off 0 1 off 1 0 1/2 output 1 1 1 full output Note you will need to power this circuit. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 11 13:13:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: EGA-VGA adapter In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Feb 11, 1 00:33:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1069 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010211/898c240c/attachment.ksh From rcini at optonline.net Sun Feb 11 14:05:17 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Adopted -- PC Convertible 5140 Message-ID: Hello, all: Well, another successful minor adoption -- a PC Convertible 5140 with printer and monitor. It also appears to have a parallel port snap-on and a video board snap-on. It also seems that the battery is shorted, because the power supply goes into shutdown mode with the battery connected. The computer works without the battery installed. Does anyone have any info on the specs, like OS version, options, and the like? Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulator Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From grant at AcceLight.com Sun Feb 11 15:29:58 2001 From: grant at AcceLight.com (Grant Goodes) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Helk with a Kontron EPP-80 EPROM Burner Message-ID: <200102112129.f1BLTwN10837@localhost.localdomain> I just acquired an EPROM burner/eraser by Kontron, model EPP-80, and although most of the functionality is intuitive enough, the use of the serial port is not. In particular, I want to download an image from a file on my PC to the Kontron's local memory. There's an IN and OUT key, and the OUT key _does_ output something to the serial port, but in addition to a start and end address, the command seems to take a format code (eg. 23 outputs the memory in ASCII Hex notation, in bytes, separated by commas). Anyone with knowledge/documentation on these units? I'd appreciate any help, especially access to some documentation. Please email me directly, as I'm not currently subscribed. Thanks. grant.. From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Feb 11 15:28:36 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II Message-ID: <4.1.20010211131416.00abeb00@206.231.8.2> Anybody have a manual for the subject laser printer? I think it's barely on topic (at least ten years old) as I recall it being bought sometime before I moved to the new offices at my old employer in early 1992. I'm attempting to fire it up after having shelved it for several years. I bought it in a company surplus auction. Naturally, the VP who used it in his office misplaced the manual. He's a pure non-techie and he admitted to me often that he doesn't keep track of such things. I can't for the life of me recall the term for the electrostatically charged image transfer belt which picks up the toner and transfers it to the paper. But the one in this unit is physically damaged such that two black blotches prints on each page along with a very fine line all along the length of the page -just off center. Anybody have or otherwise knows of a junker Action Laser II from which I could buy that part? It's the easily removable assembly positioned right in front of the fuser assembly. Next, I have to research whether anybody sells replacement toner carts at a civilized price -that will tell me whether it's actually worthwile restoring and using this printer :-/ It'll certainly save ink cartrige$ on our HP DeskJet we have in the house when printing larger quantities of text or some monochrome graphics for my schoolwork. Thanks for your help on this. -Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Feb 11 16:10:46 2001 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010211131416.00abeb00@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <000301c09477$7c0fc040$6501a8c0@thinkpad> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Christian Fandt > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 1:29 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Epson Action Laser II > > > Anybody have a manual for the subject laser printer? I think it's > barely on > topic (at least ten years old) as I recall it being bought sometime before > I moved to the new offices at my old employer in early 1992. The manuals can be found here: http://support.epson.com/hardware/printer/laser/al2___/documentation.html From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 11 18:47:40 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: <000301c09477$7c0fc040$6501a8c0@thinkpad> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Henry Broekhuyse wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Christian Fandt > > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 1:29 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Epson Action Laser II > > > > > > Anybody have a manual for the subject laser printer? I think it's > > barely on > > topic (at least ten years old) as I recall it being bought sometime before > > I moved to the new offices at my old employer in early 1992. > > The manuals can be found here: > > http://support.epson.com/hardware/printer/laser/al2___/documentation.html > Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. I picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a meaningful FAQ on it! - don From milton at sciti.com Sun Feb 11 19:00:06 2001 From: milton at sciti.com (Milton Blackstone) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Sorry Folks References: <200102110232.SAA13974@ltsp1.ltsp.com> Message-ID: <3A873595.D93EC265@sciti.com> > > > Subject: Re: Apple discs and doc offer, etc. > Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:25:04 -0800 > From: Milton Blackstone > > o: "S. Ring" , donm@cts.com, classiccmp@classiccmp/org > > References: <018e01c090cd$b3496140$9357ddcc@sring> > > Hello All: > I appreciate the help my frienn Maslin offered by advising you folks > that I had a bunch of Apple, Kaypro and early IBM stuff to d, > Dodispose of and I apologize to the 5 or 6 people who contacted me > requesting specific items they were interested in - but - I have all > of this stuff packed in 3 heavy cartons and can not re-open them to > check out your requests..or shlep them to a shipper. If there is > anyone in the San Diego area who would be interested in doing same > or want them for your archives - I would be pleased to make it > available for pick-up. > > Sorry if you were misled but the intention was honorable. > > Milton Blackstone > > "S. Ring" wrote: > >> I am interested in what you have for theApple II series machines. >> sring@uslink.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010211/9ccca3ec/attachment.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Feb 11 19:16:11 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. I >picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a meaningful >FAQ on it! Nice printers. I've always liked the Oki LED printers. I believe the 400 series are 300 dpi HP LJ IIp or III compatible. I made the mistake of picking up one of thier 'windows only' Okipage 4W printers a few months ago, not realizing at the time that it couldn't be used in other environments. Still haven't done anything with it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Feb 11 14:16:34 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: References: <000301c09477$7c0fc040$6501a8c0@thinkpad> Message-ID: <20010212011811.PKY13130.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. I > picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a meaningful > FAQ on it! > - don > If you need to know how to set it up via menu, I can help. I have OL400 as well and I displore it! The drum itself cost 200, toner tube cost 20 or so. That drum is good for appox 3 to 5 tubes worth before drum goes bad. HP of most laser printers costs 50-70 on either new or rebuilt cartidges and lasts as long or better than as that toner tube in okidata's or brother's. That OL400 that slowly digests data and spits out printouts is under bed waiting to be tossed. Nothing wrong with it, just the drum. Now using HP DJ 560 w/ refilled cartidge, kit still have 5 fills left to go. Cheap but cheapest in long run is HP laserjet series. You can also do the drum rebuild with new drum and few parts for appox 60 yourslf. Needs hepa face mask (trust me, that toner dust is very easy to float free no matter what. Got black snot and short term sneezing fits. And old clothes, surgical gloves and large plastic drop sheet. Simply avoid this fuss with that bastard okidata and brother type, buy HP laser. Cheers, Wizard From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 11 19:37:28 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. I > >picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a meaningful > >FAQ on it! > > Nice printers. I've always liked the Oki LED printers. I > believe the 400 series are 300 dpi HP LJ IIp or III compatible. I Right, it emulates the HP-IIP. What I'm really looking for is to untangle the mysteries of all of the possible pushbutton selections. - don > made the mistake of picking up one of thier 'windows only' Okipage 4W > printers a few months ago, not realizing at the time that it couldn't > be used in other environments. Still haven't done anything with it. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 11 19:39:40 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: <20010212011811.PKY13130.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. I > > picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a meaningful > > FAQ on it! > > - don > > > > If you need to know how to set it up via menu, I can help. I have That is it exactly! - don > OL400 as well and I displore it! The drum itself cost 200, toner > tube cost 20 or so. That drum is good for appox 3 to 5 tubes worth > before drum goes bad. HP of most laser printers costs 50-70 on > either new or rebuilt cartidges and lasts as long or better than as > that toner tube in okidata's or brother's. > > That OL400 that slowly digests data and spits out printouts is under > bed waiting to be tossed. Nothing wrong with it, just the drum. > Now using HP DJ 560 w/ refilled cartidge, kit still have 5 fills > left to go. Cheap but cheapest in long run is HP laserjet series. > > You can also do the drum rebuild with new drum and few parts for > appox 60 yourslf. Needs hepa face mask (trust me, that toner dust is > very easy to float free no matter what. Got black snot and short > term sneezing fits. And old clothes, surgical gloves and large > plastic drop sheet. Simply avoid this fuss with that bastard okidata > and brother type, buy HP laser. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Feb 11 20:27:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1207448449 > >$5,100 was the final bid. I wonder if it was actually consumated? For those that haven't seen it, someone just posted a SOL-20 with North Star disk system, plus manuals on eBay. The opening bid he is asking is $999, while his 'Buy it now' price is $3,000. The system looks in decent enough shape, but it is missing it's front panel lable. Given what some of the other early S-100 bus systems have gone for recently, it will be interesting to see if he gets his opening price or above. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1214195149 Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sun Feb 11 20:59:23 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: <20010212011811.PKY13130.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: For the OL-400e, have you tried this menu page for the OL-400e at Okidata? http://my.okidata.com/PP-OL400e.nsf?opendatabase -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 2:17 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Epson Action Laser II > Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. I > picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a meaningful > FAQ on it! > - don > If you need to know how to set it up via menu, I can help. I have OL400 as well and I displore it! The drum itself cost 200, toner tube cost 20 or so. That drum is good for appox 3 to 5 tubes worth before drum goes bad. HP of most laser printers costs 50-70 on either new or rebuilt cartidges and lasts as long or better than as that toner tube in okidata's or brother's. That OL400 that slowly digests data and spits out printouts is under bed waiting to be tossed. Nothing wrong with it, just the drum. Now using HP DJ 560 w/ refilled cartidge, kit still have 5 fills left to go. Cheap but cheapest in long run is HP laserjet series. You can also do the drum rebuild with new drum and few parts for appox 60 yourslf. Needs hepa face mask (trust me, that toner dust is very easy to float free no matter what. Got black snot and short term sneezing fits. And old clothes, surgical gloves and large plastic drop sheet. Simply avoid this fuss with that bastard okidata and brother type, buy HP laser. Cheers, Wizard From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 11 21:06:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! References: Message-ID: <000a01c094a0$d6fa9b00$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Complete and functional hardware/software isn't that common on the eBay, so I'd not be surprised to see this one go for at least the $1k that he's opening with. Tom Bassi told me he's already gotten his $$$ for his $5100 IMSAI, by the way, but, due to a quirk of fate, he'd promised the proceeds to his wife. That was before he knew what it would go for, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1207448449 > > > >$5,100 was the final bid. I wonder if it was actually consumated? > > For those that haven't seen it, someone just posted a SOL-20 > with North Star disk system, plus manuals on eBay. The opening bid > he is asking is $999, while his 'Buy it now' price is $3,000. The > system looks in decent enough shape, but it is missing it's front > panel lable. Given what some of the other early S-100 bus systems > have gone for recently, it will be interesting to see if he gets his > opening price or above. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1214195149 > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From optimus at canit.se Sun Feb 11 21:05:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: More VAX troubles Message-ID: <1690.443T1200T2454945optimus@canit.se> First of all, thanks to Allison and William Webb for the help with the IIGPX. I visited it today, and found a whole lot of QBUS cards in a box, a lot of which seemed like SCSI. I proceeded to replace the present card with the new one, but no success nevertheless. Then I decided to remove the RZ55 once again. That was a bad mistake, since the power connector was wedged very firmly into the drive, and when I tried to remove it, I removed the female connector on the drive as well. Luckily a friend soldered it back again for me, and I tried once again with the old card. No great success, but then we decided to try a lot of odd drive names (odd if you're a non-DEC person), and found out something about a DUA0. The drive span up and started to boot NetBSD, but things seemed to fail due to memory error. We then proceeded to reseat all the cards, and now it would boot fine. What an odd problem. Could it be that I hadn't seated the card firmly enough? The only problem now, is that the computer crashes whenever IP traffic goes beyond simple pinging or a few lines of telnet. The NIC is a DECNA (DEQNA?), and reseating it doesn't seem to solve anything. It is possible to ping it successfully, albeit with long response times. Running ftp on the VAX and downloading small files from other hosts quickly lands you in the debugger, though, with a system shutdown as next step, and the same thing happens when telnetting to it and running a few short commands. What could be wrong this time? Should the card or the OS be replaced, and how uncommon are these NICs? I could need another one for the plain MicroVAX II. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Age is a high price to pay for maturity. From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Sun Feb 11 21:35:51 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Tandys/Apple ][e FCOS Message-ID: <40308641@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Hey all, I was in one of my watering holes today and saw a Tandy 600 for sale. Looked fairly complete (power supply and a manual I think). Didn't check the price but this guy's usually pretty reasonable and he's got a sale going on electronics for the next couple days. Let me know if you're interested and I'll find out the price and snag it for ya. He also has a bunch of random video game controllers so if you need ANOTHER Atari joystick... ;) Also of possible interest: I have a Tandy 1000 with some software that needs a home. Don't know for sure that it works but odds are that it does. Welcome to it for the price of shipping or for trade -- anything Apple/Mac/Lisa/Commodore/Atari/videogame-related. I've decided that I need to focus a little with the collecting, and the Tandys don't really turn me on. Last item, an Apple ][e with Apple /// monitor. Both work. I don't need _another_ one and doubt anyone else does either...but yours for shipping. I live in NH. Thanks, -- MB From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Feb 11 21:36:38 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II (Back on topic) In-Reply-To: <000301c09477$7c0fc040$6501a8c0@thinkpad> References: <4.1.20010211131416.00abeb00@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.20010211221354.00ac98c0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 02:10 PM 2/11/01 -0800, Henry Broekhuyse said something like: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Christian Fandt >> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 1:29 PM >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Epson Action Laser II >> >> >> Anybody have a manual for the subject laser printer? I think it's >> barely on >> topic (at least ten years old) as I recall it being bought sometime before >> I moved to the new offices at my old employer in early 1992. > >The manuals can be found here: > >http://support.epson.com/hardware/printer/laser/al2___/documentation.html Well, now that we know more about Okidata OL400E LED page printers in an Epson thread :-), let's get back to the questions I originally posed . . . Firstly: Let me say: Doh! The Epson website was not a first thought as I had in mind searching for a paper copy of the manual. But the .pdf file of the manual actually seems a better thing to have at present -especially if I cannot replace the photoconductor assembly (the thing that I couldn't recall the name of in the original posting.) No sense in paying for a paper copy manual if the printer will not be repairable and useful. Which brings me back to the question: Has anybody got a parts machine from which I may buy the photoconductor unit assembly? I see from the online manuals the part number is S051005. Secondly: Thanks Henry for the heads-up on the online manual! Thanks in advance for help any of you provide toward finding a good photoconductor unit. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Sun Feb 11 21:39:22 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: Tandys/Apple ][e FCOS Message-ID: <40308789@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Hey all, I was in one of my watering holes today and saw a Tandy 600 for sale. Looked fairly complete (power supply and a manual I think). Didn't check the price but this guy's usually pretty reasonable and he's got a sale going on electronics for the next couple days. Let me know if you're interested and I'll find out the price and snag it for ya. He also has a bunch of random video game controllers so if you need ANOTHER Atari joystick... ;) Also of possible interest: I have a Tandy 1000 with some software that needs a home. Don't know for sure that it works but odds are that it does. Welcome to it for the price of shipping or for trade -- anything Apple/Mac/Lisa/Commodore/Atari/videogame-related. I've decided that I need to focus a little with the collecting, and the Tandys don't really turn me on. Last item, an Apple ][e with Apple /// monitor. Both work. I don't need _another_ one and doubt anyone else does either...but yours for shipping. I live in NH. Thanks, -- MB From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Sun Feb 11 22:01:44 2001 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: CPU and OS Message-ID: What type of CPU and OS does this system have? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=553614951 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Feb 11 22:18:57 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: CPU and OS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010212041857.85310.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Reuben Reyes wrote: > What type of CPU and OS does this system have? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=553614951 I can't say for sure, but it sure looks like the Perkin-Elmer box I have. Mine is a UNIX System III box (P-E Uniplus) with a mono monitor that has "soft keys" at the base of the tube. ISTR it's SASI inside (via a SASI<->MFM board). Mine has an MC68000 (which is why my former employer bought it in the first place). I see it has 10 minutes left. Low bid, though. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Feb 11 22:34:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:37 2005 Subject: GG2 bus In-Reply-To: <301.442T1250T2024559optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010212043433.46673.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > A while ago, there was someone on this list withan overwhelming stock of > Goldengate bridgeboards. Could that person please get in touch with me? Done (it's me, BTW, in case anyone else happens to want to expand their Amiga - I'm the OEM for the GG2 Bus+ which are still available new, with the usual one-year warranty) ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Sun Feb 11 23:17:52 2001 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: CPU and OS In-Reply-To: <20010212041857.85310.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010212041857.85310.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Ethan, After checking shipping for 70 lb at $38 and my wife grumbling about how i should use the $ on her for Valentine's day i did not bid on it. I still would like to have one but maybe some other time or place. >--- Reuben Reyes wrote: >> What type of CPU and OS does this system have? >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=553614951 > >I can't say for sure, but it sure looks like the Perkin-Elmer box I >have. Mine is a UNIX System III box (P-E Uniplus) with a mono monitor >that has "soft keys" at the base of the tube. ISTR it's SASI inside >(via a SASI<->MFM board). Mine has an MC68000 (which is why my former >employer bought it in the first place). > >I see it has 10 minutes left. Low bid, though. > >-ethan > > > > >===== >Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to >vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > >The original webpage address is still going away. The >permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > >See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 >a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 11 23:33:33 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > For the OL-400e, have you tried this menu page for the OL-400e at Okidata? > > http://my.okidata.com/PP-OL400e.nsf?opendatabase Not unless I accessed it from the basic website. But, I will! - don > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 2:17 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Epson Action Laser II > > > > > Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. I > > picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a meaningful > > FAQ on it! > > - don > > > > If you need to know how to set it up via menu, I can help. I have > OL400 as well and I displore it! The drum itself cost 200, toner > tube cost 20 or so. That drum is good for appox 3 to 5 tubes worth > before drum goes bad. HP of most laser printers costs 50-70 on > either new or rebuilt cartidges and lasts as long or better than as > that toner tube in okidata's or brother's. > > That OL400 that slowly digests data and spits out printouts is under > bed waiting to be tossed. Nothing wrong with it, just the drum. > Now using HP DJ 560 w/ refilled cartidge, kit still have 5 fills > left to go. Cheap but cheapest in long run is HP laserjet series. > > You can also do the drum rebuild with new drum and few parts for > appox 60 yourslf. Needs hepa face mask (trust me, that toner dust is > very easy to float free no matter what. Got black snot and short > term sneezing fits. And old clothes, surgical gloves and large > plastic drop sheet. Simply avoid this fuss with that bastard okidata > and brother type, buy HP laser. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From jate at uwasa.fi Mon Feb 12 00:46:20 2001 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: HP BASIC & SRM newbie Message-ID: <20010212084620.A940@NTT-F4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Hello, Some background: I was going through my computers last weekend, trying to get their operational status changed from "mothballed" to something else. I found a couple of HP 9153C & 9153s from the storage and in an act of desperation decided to connect them to a 9000/382 running HP-UX. Imagine my surprise when the 382 started booting HP BASIC! After that I went searching for another machine (found a 340, 310 and an SRM server). First I tried to boot basic on the SRM server, but that failed due to not having enough memory (512KB). I eventually got it working with the 310 + HP composite video card + Phillips monitor. A couple of questions: What can I do with it and where do I find more info ? I've never used HP BASIC so the only commands I got working were PRINT and a mysterious LIST BIN, which gave me more than a screenfull of stuff like this: "CLOCK 5.0". I assume this is HP BASIC 5.0 ? I guess I can use this with the SRM server ? Do I need extra software to go from HP-UX to SRM ? (I've go extra cards) I don't even know how the access the disk drives :) So any help is appreciated, thanks. -- jht From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Feb 12 04:38:54 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <000a01c094a0$d6fa9b00$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <000a01c094a0$d6fa9b00$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >Complete and functional hardware/software isn't that common on the eBay, so >I'd not be surprised to see this one go for at least the $1k that he's >opening with. If I remember correctly from when I was watching the prices on the 3-4 SOL's that sold on eBay around Sept. and August, they went for roughly $500 each. I know none of them ended up with a final anywhere near this one's opening bid. Sure makes me glad I didn't even have to pay anywhere near that much for mine! The North Star disk system would be a nice addition to it though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Feb 12 08:21:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: CPU and OS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010212142131.70560.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Reuben Reyes wrote: > Thanks Ethan, > > After checking shipping for 70 lb at $38 and my wife grumbling > about how i should use the $ on her for Valentine's day i did not > bid on it. I still would like to have one but maybe some other > time or place. I seriously looked at bidding on it, but I didn't want to pay the shipping charges for a system I probably wouldn't fire up for at least a year given what I already have in my pipeline (still digesting a load of PDP-11s - two 11/34a, one 11/24 plus disks/tape) I mentioned to someone in the room that if I'd seen this on a table at a Hamfest for $20, I'd have bought it on the spot, but the shipping charges scared me away. Did anyone on the list pick it up? The seller mentioned no monitor and that it should be "normal", but ISTR that mine had a single DB-25 with video and soft keys, not two connectors like this one. It might or might not be compatible with an old IBM MDA CRT; it's been years since I fired mine up. Got all the docs, though. We bought ours at Software Results Corp (those COMBOARD guys) for an unfinished product that would be recognizable today as a WAN terminal server/router called the Node Box. It was being developed in C, rather than assembler, like our other products, and it was deemed cheapest to use the P-E box for a development environment and pipe the assembler output of the internal C compiler into our own assembler which produced a particular variety of relocatable object module that allowed us to dovetail the C code with our pre-existing assembler library and harware primitives. I suppose given the state of C compilers and license fees in 1983, it made sense at the time. I know we had to develop our own assembler in 1979 because there was none to buy that ran under VMS or RSTS (our working environment 'til the end in 1995). I still have the world's supply of Node Boxes - MC68000 w/MMU, 4 proprietary slots, 3.5" floppy (in 1983, remember!), lots of blinky lights, and a 4-port DMA serial card (dual Z8530 w/68450(?) DMAC) or 8-port PIO serial. I suppose if I were supremely bored, I could hack a Linux kernel to it, but I'd have to completely redo the MMU stuff because the old 68451 MMU is not register-compatible with the 68851. As it is, it runs a real-time exec designed and built by Dr. John Goltz of Compuserve fame. Got all the sources, etc., somewhere on an MSCP disk. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rachael_ at gmx.net Mon Feb 12 06:17:32 2001 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Amiga development (was: uVAX II Memory Board) Message-ID: <780.443T1604T7972900rachael_@gmx.net> Hi >To actually install Amiga UNIX requires a Commodore A2091 or A3000 SCSI >controller. Apparently someone made patches to allow AMIX to be used with GVP >controllers, but I have never seen them. (I would really like to get hold of >that, since maybe it will be possible to install AMIX on my A2000 then. But >you probably have to install AMIX before being able to incorporate the >patches...) I have a 3000 here, with superkickstart and a 250mb wangdat 6250 tape, It might be able to install it. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Feb 12 08:55:44 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: HPUX backup (sorta working) Message-ID: Thanks to all that replied before, I have been able to MOSTLY create a working backup of my HPUX 8.0 system. Still have a glitch to work out but, I'm getting a lot closer. Originally, I was using two different size disks and that wasn't working out so, now I'm using identical disks for the source and target. I am using the "dd" command to copy the data from the existing root disk partitions to the target. dd if=/dev/dsk/c1000t0d13 of=/dev/dsk/c1008t0d13 bs=1024k dd if=/dev/dsk/c1000t0d2 of=/dev/dsk/c1008t0d2 bs=1024 Now I can boot hpux on the backup disk but only if I boot ISL on the original disk. When I load ISL from the original 8.0 disk, it shows a different version than when I load ISL from the backup disk. The backup disk was previously loaded with 10.20 and it appears that dd did not overwrite that portion of the disk. Unfortunately, the 10.20 version of ISL will not boot the 8.0 version of HPUX. It reports a funky out of memory error or some such. I realize in this case that the dd command is only moving the "13" and "2" partitions of the disk and ISL is probably not on either of those partitions. "ioscan -fn -C disk" reports about 50 different special files for each drive and I really don't to wade through all of them to find the right combination. I have tried a few of the obvious like "c1000t0d0 ---> c1008t0d0" but still haven't found the right combination to copy the ISL sectors. So... the question(s) is: What partition is ISL on? Will dd copy ISL or do I have to use a different utility? Thanks, Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Feb 12 09:32:29 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: CPU and OS In-Reply-To: from Reuben Reyes at "Feb 11, 2001 11:17:52 pm" Message-ID: <200102121532.f1CFWUF12483@bg-tc-ppp1696.monmouth.com> > Thanks Ethan, > > After checking shipping for 70 lb at $38 and my wife grumbling > about how i should use the $ on her for Valentine's day i did not > bid on it. I still would like to have one but maybe some other > time or place. > > >--- Reuben Reyes wrote: > >> What type of CPU and OS does this system have? > >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=553614951 > > > >I can't say for sure, but it sure looks like the Perkin-Elmer box I > >have. Mine is a UNIX System III box (P-E Uniplus) with a mono monitor > >that has "soft keys" at the base of the tube. ISTR it's SASI inside > >(via a SASI<->MFM board). Mine has an MC68000 (which is why my former > >employer bought it in the first place). > > > >I see it has 10 minutes left. Low bid, though. > > > >-ethan It's a heavy and rather slow beast. I dumped about 30 of them ten years ago. The 68000 can be replaced with a 68010 for a slight pickup in performance. It ran either Uniplus (SysIII with some BSD add on stuff like vi) or MicroXelos (UniPlus SysV port) or IDRIS (clone of Unix by Whitesmith). The graphics are pretty slow and the bus can't really crank past the slow speed the Versabus is running at. The Concurrent Computer engineers looked at ways to improve it but they never got the funding from Perkin-Elmer which went to uVaxes for these lab managment boxes. The machines are pretty solid -- I took a news feed on an XF200 (MicroXelos version of the box in a tower case with 3 80mb drives in it). The box had 15 serial ports on it plus the console. Wild little minitower. Worked great. Never sold. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From thompson at mail.athenet.net Mon Feb 12 09:56:32 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: HPUX backup (sorta working) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ISL lives in the LIF volume which is not part of a partition. You can probably make your exact image if you use the device for the whole disk rather than backing up by partitions. The whole disk device should get all the partitions. A man lif on your 10.20 system should provide some info. Paul On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > Thanks to all that replied before, I have been able to MOSTLY create a > working backup of my HPUX 8.0 system. Still have a glitch to work out but, > I'm getting a lot closer. > > Originally, I was using two different size disks and that wasn't working out > so, now I'm using identical disks for the source and target. > > I am using the "dd" command to copy the data from the existing root disk > partitions to the target. > > dd if=/dev/dsk/c1000t0d13 of=/dev/dsk/c1008t0d13 bs=1024k > dd if=/dev/dsk/c1000t0d2 of=/dev/dsk/c1008t0d2 bs=1024 > > Now I can boot hpux on the backup disk but only if I boot ISL on the > original disk. When I load ISL from the original 8.0 disk, it shows a > different version than when I load ISL from the backup disk. The backup disk > was previously loaded with 10.20 and it appears that dd did not overwrite > that portion of the disk. > > Unfortunately, the 10.20 version of ISL will not boot the 8.0 version of > HPUX. It reports a funky out of memory error or some such. > > I realize in this case that the dd command is only moving the "13" and "2" > partitions of the disk and ISL is probably not on either of those > partitions. > > "ioscan -fn -C disk" reports about 50 different special files for each drive > and I really don't to wade through all of them to find the right > combination. I have tried a few of the obvious like "c1000t0d0 ---> > c1008t0d0" but still haven't found the right combination to copy the ISL > sectors. > > So... the question(s) is: > > What partition is ISL on? > Will dd copy ISL or do I have to use a different utility? > > Thanks, Steve > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > -- From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon Feb 12 10:03:51 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A87B507.3683.EB63D@localhost> I think that's the same guy who recently asked me if I was interested. At least everything in the auction seems the same. He said he would put it on ebay if I wasn't interested. Well I was but it became clear he wanted more than I was ready to pay. He seemed pretty sure he could easily get $1000-$1500 for it on ebay so I passed. It will be interesting to see how much someone is willing to pay for it. On 11 Feb 2001, at 21:27, Jeff Hellige wrote: > For those that haven't seen it, someone just posted a SOL-20 > with North Star disk system, plus manuals on eBay. The opening bid he > is asking is $999, while his 'Buy it now' price is $3,000. The system > looks in decent enough shape, but it is missing it's front panel > lable. Given what some of the other early S-100 bus systems have gone > for recently, it will be interesting to see if he gets his opening > price or above. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1214195149 ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Feb 12 10:18:08 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Colossus code-breaking machine: seminar, Bristol, UK Message-ID: Just thought this might be of interest to UK readers. At least it's more than 10 years old! See Web URL at the bottom of the message. --- Begin Forwarded Message --- SEMINAR THE COLOSSUS CODE BREAKING COMPUTER - Its influence on World War II and its rebuild Presented by : Tony Sale (Hon FBCS, ex Museums Director, Bletchley Park) Venue: University of Bristol/Queen's Building/PLT Date/Time: 20th February 2001 at 5pm The Colossus was the world's first electronic computer and was built at Bletchley Park during World War II to break the German Lorenz cipher. Tony Sale has spent the last few years rebuilding the Colossus working from remaining plans, photos and the recollections of people who worked at Bletchley. The talk will begin with a discussion of the historical context of the Colossus and the part it played in shortening World War II. Tony will then move on to discuss how the Colossus is being rebuilt and report on the current status of the rebuilding project. This talk is suitable for a general audience and all are welcome. More information can be found at: http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/Research/Seminars/Crypto --- End Forwarded Message --- -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From edick at idcomm.com Mon Feb 12 10:49:24 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! References: <3A87B507.3683.EB63D@localhost> Message-ID: <001901c09513$c1696140$1192fea9@idcomm.com> There's been a lot of hardware sold on eBay that had no assurance that it would ever work, no documentation, missing parts, etc, and it's good to see that people are putting enough value on that by bidding up the items that are complete and, above all, CLEAN and undamaged. I believe that the reason eBay prices offend so many of the folks who follow this list is that they're accustomed to picking things out of the junk heap and subsequently putting forth the effort to turn the "sow's ear" into the desired "silk purse" by gather up what's needed to return the originally junk hardware in to something of use, and, hence, of value. These high prices simply reflect the fact that there are people out there who appreciate that it does take lots of effort to return a 25-year-old piece of stored-in-the-shed hardware in to a clean, functional, piece of computer memorabilia complete with documentation and software, that actually does something. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Williams" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! > I think that's the same guy who recently asked me if I was > interested. At least everything in the auction seems the same. He > said he would put it on ebay if I wasn't interested. Well I was but it > became clear he wanted more than I was ready to pay. He > seemed pretty sure he could easily get $1000-$1500 for it on ebay > so I passed. It will be interesting to see how much someone is > willing to pay for it. > > On 11 Feb 2001, at 21:27, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > For those that haven't seen it, someone just posted a SOL-20 > > with North Star disk system, plus manuals on eBay. The opening bid he > > is asking is $999, while his 'Buy it now' price is $3,000. The system > > looks in decent enough shape, but it is missing it's front panel > > lable. Given what some of the other early S-100 bus systems have gone > > for recently, it will be interesting to see if he gets his opening > > price or above. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1214195149 > > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > You can learn to like the life you live > or live the life you like. > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > > From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Feb 12 11:33:44 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176143@EXCH002> OK, what on earth happened to the Dejanews archive? Seems like they've been taken over by Google (leading us one step closer to a single corporation controlling the entire world, no doubt! :-) I didn't see any advance warning of this, nor can I see any date for when the archives will be back online on the site. Are there any other usenet archive sites out there? (preferably ones that aren't web based, or have a better interface than the awful Dejanews one - or the even poorer Google search result format!) cheers Jules. ps. this is serving somewhat as a test message - someone let me know if they can see it! :) -- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 12 13:02:47 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Weekend finds @ Orlando hamfest Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010212140247.46073da8@mailhost.intellistar.net> What a weekend!!! day -1: Thursday. Helped a friend dig out and load stuff to take to the hamfest. Found and bought two Osborne computers. One turns out to be an early Osborne 1, NOT an OCC-1. It has a display but appears to have a bad capacitor in the power supply judging from the ripple. It got all the original manuals and software with it. The other machine is an OCC-1. I had previously found the software and manuals for this one so now it's intact again. This one works great! day 0: Friday. Hamfest starts but opened earlier than on previous years so I get there after they open. Eveything is picked over but I still manage to find a new in box Survey ROM for the HP-41. Also included is a 41 battery holder, one manual and some other bits and pieces. Later I find a new in box HP 71B. Also in the box was a brand new HP-71 ROM from Pratt and Whitney that is used to determine where to place weights to balance an H-60 helicopter engine. Also got the instructions for the ROM. The odd thing about this 71 is that the box has a label that says that it is a "Computer, Fire Control". That's the name that the US Army calls the HP-71s that are used as a backup system for computing artillery fire. I have the manuals for that system along with a bunch of the ROMs and several (badly) used HP-71s. This is the first time that I've seen one of these 71s NIB. This one is in PERFECT condition. Day 1: Saturday. LOADS of good finds this day! Frist, a dealer friend of mine says that he has a surprise for me and to come back after he unloads. I return later and find that he has two HP-41 CV calculators for me (Yippie!). Both are in the cases and have all the accessories. They're also the later half-nut models. One even has a survey ROM in it. Go to another stand and find that the guy has a VAN LOAD of books from the estate of a farily well known author in electronis, J.A. (Sam) Wilson. I spent SEVERAL hours going through all the books. I eneded up with TWEVLE large boxs of physics, mathematics, computer and engineering books. Too many GREAT books to describe some some of the highlights include Mick and Brick's book on Bit-Slice CPUs, loads of OLD DEC manuals, loads of '70s data books, a Heathkit ET-3400 with ALL the manuals, Intel manuals for the MDS systems and lots more! Check another stand and found a manual for a Tektronix 4596 Graphics tablet for use with the Tektronix 4051 computer. Then I really find a a goodie! A Zenith Z-100 computer in great condition and with the built in hard drive for $10! Later I find a brand new in the box HP Thinkjet printer with the HP-IL inteface. I also picked up a "Intext" model XK-300 Microprocessor Trainer made by Elenco Electronics Inc. Does anyone know anything about these? It looks similar to the Heathkit ET-3400 but has a Motorola 6802 CPU. Day 2: Sunday. Things are slow today but I still manage to score a nice RS-232 analyzer for $1. Also found another boxfull of books! One in the great finds is a copy of "The Complete Motorola MicroComputer Data Library" printed by Motorola in 1978. This is a THICK book and it describes ALL of their EXOR-bus cards and systems along with all the other EXOR-TERM systems and other items including all of the cards that they made for the DEC systems. It also has data sheets for all of their digital ICs. It also lists all the software that they sell and all their Developement systems! This a great reference manual! I also find two HP Electro-Optics catalogs from the early '70s. One lists and describes the displays used in the HP Spice series of calculators. I've never found that before. The second one describes in detail the display system used in the HP 35 and other classic HP calculators. Both of these are going to be very handy! The only other sgnificant find is a Remote Relay Actuator and sensor control box that's operated by RS-232. Well that's the highlights. Now I have to go clean out the car. AND my truck. AND my buddy's van! They're all full! Joe From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Feb 12 12:23:13 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: HPUX backup (now it's working) Message-ID: OK... It took me awhile but, I finally figured out which "section" ISL resides on. If I'd only looked at /etc/disktab first, I probably coulda saved myself a bunch of work :-) It seems older versions of HPUX use disk section "6" for boot. Once I found that info, I did: "dd if=/dev/dsk/c1000d0s6 of=/dev/dsk/c1008d0s6 bs=1024k" and now everything is working just fine. Now that I have a complete copy of the system, I can screw around with the box all I want and not worry about loosing the OS. In the next day or two, I'll copy all the files to a WINNT box and burn a CD (an adventure unto itsself). That way, I'll have a "permanent" backup. Thanks to everyone for the help. Steve > >ISL lives in the LIF volume which is not part of a partition. >You can probably make your exact image if you use the device for the whole >disk rather than backing up by partitions. The whole disk device should >get all the partitions. > >A man lif on your 10.20 system should provide some info. > >Paul _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Feb 12 12:33:52 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews Message-ID: Musta happened this weekend. I just did a search and the results came back EXTREMELY fast, with fewer advertisment and a lot less BS on the page. I've always been a fan of DEJANEWS but, This might not be a bad thing. Steve >From: Julian Richardson >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: "'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'" >Subject: Dejanews >Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:33:44 -0000 > > >OK, what on earth happened to the Dejanews archive? Seems like they've been >taken over by Google (leading us one step closer to a single corporation >controlling the entire world, no doubt! :-) > >I didn't see any advance warning of this, nor can I see any date for when >the archives will be back online on the site. Are there any other usenet >archive sites out there? (preferably ones that aren't web based, or have a >better interface than the awful Dejanews one - or the even poorer Google >search result format!) > >cheers > >Jules. > >ps. this is serving somewhat as a test message - someone let me know if >they >can see it! :) >-- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Feb 12 13:11:51 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: CPU and OS In-Reply-To: <200102121532.f1CFWUF12483@bg-tc-ppp1696.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010212191151.34445.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> > It's a heavy and rather slow beast. I dumped about 30 of them > ten years ago. I tried to sell mine, complete with docs for $15 at a Hamfest nearly 10 years ago and got no nibbles. This was before Linux hit it big. > The 68000 can be replaced with a 68010 for a slight > pickup in performance. That's nice to know. I have a few '010s (the VAX-BI COMBOARD used them). I didn't assume it was a drop-in replacement due to the MOVEcc instruction being now priv'ed (AmigaDOS 1.1 will croak if you upgrade the CPU without running a TRAP patch (available in the olden days). The calc program was the way to test the patch. If you Guru'ed, you weren't patched. > It ran either Uniplus (SysIII with some BSD add on stuff like vi)... As I said, mine has Uniplus (w/boxed docs and media). > The graphics are pretty slow and the bus can't really crank past the > slow speed the Versabus is running at. We used ours strictly for text-based development on the console and a couple of TTY ports. Still, it wasn't a fast compiler, I did notice, even in 1987 when I was using it. > The machines are pretty solid -- I took a news feed on an XF200 > (MicroXelos version of the box in a tower case with 3 80mb drives in > it). Fun. What kind of disc? SCSI? Am I right in remembering that the 7500 has SASI? > The box had 15 serial ports on it plus the console. Wild little > minitower. Worked great. Never sold. I'm sure by the time it was produced, the world had moved on. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Feb 12 14:34:33 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: CPU and OS In-Reply-To: <20010212191151.34445.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Feb 12, 2001 11:11:51 am" Message-ID: <200102122034.f1CKYYs13064@bg-tc-ppp1282.monmouth.com> > > It's a heavy and rather slow beast. I dumped about 30 of them > > ten years ago. > > I tried to sell mine, complete with docs for $15 at a Hamfest nearly 10 > years ago and got no nibbles. This was before Linux hit it big. > > > The 68000 can be replaced with a 68010 for a slight > > pickup in performance. > > That's nice to know. I have a few '010s (the VAX-BI COMBOARD used them). > I didn't assume it was a drop-in replacement due to the MOVEcc instruction > being now priv'ed (AmigaDOS 1.1 will croak if you upgrade the CPU without > running a TRAP patch (available in the olden days). The calc program was > the way to test the patch. If you Guru'ed, you weren't patched. o The MicroXelos at boot recognized the change (UniPlus SysV). I don't know if UniPlus SysIII would handle it. > > As I said, mine has Uniplus (w/boxed docs and media). > > Fun. What kind of disc? SCSI? Am I right in remembering that the 7500 > has SASI? Nope... MFM ST506 stuff. > > I'm sure by the time it was produced, the world had moved on. > Nah... the Perkin-Elmer/Concurrent managment wouldn't know a good Unix computer if it bit them on the #$%^&*. They had a clustered BSD network in house from the Univ of Erlangen in Germany that would've killed Vax BSD of the same era. They never did anything. System V -- consider it standard. They ran SysVR0 with swapping and no pageing. When SVR2 and 3 and 4 came along they dropped the mini's running Unix and claimed to do only Real-Time (OS/32) and RTU (Masscomp's SysIII/BSD realtime Unix). > -ethan > > Ah well... those were the days. It's 20 years in computers (since starting at DEC) this week and I'm off out of Lucent to a new job at .com at the end of the month. Times keep changing quickly. --Bill month. -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 12 15:08:11 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176143@EXCH002> Message-ID: >OK, what on earth happened to the Dejanews archive? Seems like they've been >taken over by Google (leading us one step closer to a single corporation >controlling the entire world, no doubt! :-) Oh, great. An already bad weekend ends up even worse. Now the www.deja.com/=dnc/ trick no longer works, at least it isn't as advertising heavy as standard DejaNews had become. Now the question is, how far does the archive go back now? For real fun, try view thread..... :^( Still it does seem to be fast. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Feb 12 15:12:00 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: CPC/IP Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010212151158.0277d540@pc> At 02:30 AM 2/10/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >Here's something interesting: yet another 8-bit TCP/IP stack, this time for >the Amstrad/Schneider CPC. Judging from the web page, http://www.nenie.org/cpcip/, it seems like quite a hack. People have fit minimal web servers (via SLIP?) in PIC-based gizmos. Search for "world's smallest web server" for all the contenders. You're right, thouh - it would be nice if there was a minimal TCP/IP / http server with source code, so it could be ported to other systems. Or maybe there is, somewhere out there... - John From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Feb 12 15:22:50 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 01:08:11PM -0800 References: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176143@EXCH002> Message-ID: <20010212162250.N617@alcor.concordia.ca> On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 01:08:11PM -0800, Zane H. Healy (healyzh@aracnet.com) wrote: > >OK, what on earth happened to the Dejanews archive? Seems like they've been > >taken over by Google (leading us one step closer to a single corporation > >controlling the entire world, no doubt! :-) > > Oh, great. An already bad weekend ends up even worse. Now the > www.deja.com/=dnc/ trick no longer works, at least it isn't as advertising > heavy as standard DejaNews had become. > > Now the question is, how far does the archive go back now? *Right this moment*, six months. Once Google gets the infrastructure put together (it's apparently not done, the six months is very much a make-do), all the way back to '95. I'm reserving judgment until they get a chance to actually write the front-end. (They couldn't use Deja's, which was for NT.) -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Feb 12 15:14:33 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: OT: parts needed Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E375F@MAIL10> Hello, all: Well, I'm going to embark on another project--to build the P112 Z80182 SBC. As you may recall, this is a nifty Z80-based SBC that's the size of a 3.5" floppy drive and uses a standard PC I/O controller for disk support. Dave Brooks no longer makes the machines, but I was able to purchase a bare board from him for $25. Anyway, it requires a few SMD components which I can locate at Arrow and Pioneer Standard, but there are purchase minimums that I can't meet. I can probably order the chips in one-offs but not the SMDs. So, I'm looking for the following: BAR43C Schottky diode SOT23, common cathode ; has odd pin configuration BAR43 {same} BCW71 transistor, NPN SOT23 SMSC FDC37C665GT SuperIO chip, QFP100 Zilog Z8018216FSC1932 Microprocessor, QFP100 Anyway, if anyone has a source for these in hobbiest contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Feb 12 15:25:16 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: References: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176143@EXCH002> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010212152435.027bdd00@pc> At 01:08 PM 2/12/01 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: >Oh, great. An already bad weekend ends up even worse. Now the >www.deja.com/=dnc/ trick no longer works, at least it isn't as advertising >heavy as standard DejaNews had become. Given Google's success and roots, I'd say this is a good thing. I bet a doughnut they extend the archives deeper into the past. - John From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Feb 12 16:00:08 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010212152435.027bdd00@pc>; from jfoust@threedee.com on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 03:25:16PM -0600 References: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176143@EXCH002> <4.3.2.7.0.20010212152435.027bdd00@pc> Message-ID: <20010212170008.O617@alcor.concordia.ca> On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 03:25:16PM -0600, John Foust (jfoust@threedee.com) wrote: > At 01:08 PM 2/12/01 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Oh, great. An already bad weekend ends up even worse. Now the > >www.deja.com/=dnc/ trick no longer works, at least it isn't as advertising > >heavy as standard DejaNews had become. > > Given Google's success and roots, I'd say this is a good > thing. I bet a doughnut they extend the archives deeper > into the past. They've promised exactly that; they bought the whole thing, and notes that they're bringing the whole thing online, in the first couple of paragraphs. Indexing a few terabytes of data seems an excusable reason to not have it ready right away :-) -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 12 16:03:14 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >OK, what on earth happened to the Dejanews archive? Seems like they've been > >taken over by Google (leading us one step closer to a single corporation > >controlling the entire world, no doubt! :-) > > Oh, great. An already bad weekend ends up even worse. Now the > www.deja.com/=dnc/ trick no longer works, at least it isn't as advertising > heavy as standard DejaNews had become. > > Now the question is, how far does the archive go back now? > > For real fun, try view thread..... :^( Still it does seem to be fast. > Zane, from what I saw on the Slashdot announcement of it that they'll be bringing the whole archive from 1995 forward back online. g. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 12 16:22:23 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: <20010212162250.N617@alcor.concordia.ca> References: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 01:08:11PM -0800 <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176143@EXCH002> Message-ID: >Once Google gets the infrastructure put together (it's apparently not >done, the six months is very much a make-do), all the way back to '95. Oh, bleep! I hope they hurry up and get more of it online FAST! >I'm reserving judgment until they get a chance to actually write the >front-end. (They couldn't use Deja's, which was for NT.) It was NT?!?!? That explains a lot. I think I agree about reserving judgement for the time being. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 12 16:32:50 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II References: Message-ID: <001001c09543$bd45f580$f1711fd1@default> I will have look real hard around but somewhere I believe I have the manual for OKI. Will let you know ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: RE: Epson Action Laser II > > > On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Henry Broekhuyse wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Christian Fandt > > > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 1:29 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Epson Action Laser II > > > > > > > > > Anybody have a manual for the subject laser printer? I think it's > > > barely on > > > topic (at least ten years old) as I recall it being bought sometime before > > > I moved to the new offices at my old employer in early 1992. > > > > The manuals can be found here: > > > > http://support.epson.com/hardware/printer/laser/al2___/documentation.htm l > > > > Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. I > picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a meaningful > FAQ on it! > - don > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Feb 12 16:51:46 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: MegaGraphics MegaVideo upgrade for the Mac Plus In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c094a0$d6fa9b00$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <000a01c094a0$d6fa9b00$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Now I find out the truth behind my friends hunt for a EGA/VGA. What he has is actually an old mac plus era video box. Anybody remember this one? >>There was a MegaGraphics MegaVideo upgrade for the Mac Plus. Its > >huge, and has DB9 output. I need to map it to VGA or Mac Video, both >>of which are analogue. I think I'll order a bunch of parts and From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Feb 12 17:24:54 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: More VAX troubles Message-ID: <004a01c0954b$b04ce890$5f749a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >The only problem now, is that the computer crashes whenever IP traffic goes >beyond simple pinging or a few lines of telnet. The NIC is a DECNA (DEQNA?), >and reseating it doesn't seem to solve anything. It is possible to ping it Must be running netbsd. The DEQNA is the older of the Qbus NICs and it's ok if working. If you can find a DELQA which was a newer version that would be better. Both can be found as networked vaxen were not unusual. >What could be wrong this time? Should the card or the OS be replaced, and how >uncommon are these NICs? I could need another one for the plain MicroVAX II. If the OS is Netbsd then look into the version your running. If VMS theres something going on, hard to guess what. Allison From russ at rbcs.8m.com Mon Feb 12 17:49:28 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: parts needed In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E375F@MAIL10> Message-ID: Have you tried DigiKey. I haven't looked through my catalog as it's buried in a box right now but they sshould have many of these parts. MCM Electronics in Ohio also has many items and even if not in their catalog they can outsorce them many times. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cini, Richard Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:15 PM To: 'ClassCompList' Subject: OT: parts needed Hello, all: Well, I'm going to embark on another project--to build the P112 Z80182 SBC. As you may recall, this is a nifty Z80-based SBC that's the size of a 3.5" floppy drive and uses a standard PC I/O controller for disk support. Dave Brooks no longer makes the machines, but I was able to purchase a bare board from him for $25. Anyway, it requires a few SMD components which I can locate at Arrow and Pioneer Standard, but there are purchase minimums that I can't meet. I can probably order the chips in one-offs but not the SMDs. So, I'm looking for the following: BAR43C Schottky diode SOT23, common cathode ; has odd pin configuration BAR43 {same} BCW71 transistor, NPN SOT23 SMSC FDC37C665GT SuperIO chip, QFP100 Zilog Z8018216FSC1932 Microprocessor, QFP100 Anyway, if anyone has a source for these in hobbiest contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 12 13:18:10 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: OT: parts needed In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E375F@MAIL10> Message-ID: <20010213001943.QTPT15955.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Cini, Richard" > To: "'ClassCompList'" > Subject: OT: parts needed > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:14:33 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Hi Rich, > Anyway, it requires a few SMD components which I can locate at Arrow > and Pioneer Standard, but there are purchase minimums that I can't meet. I > can probably order the chips in one-offs but not the SMDs. > > So, I'm looking for the following: > > BAR43C Schottky diode SOT23, common cathode ; has odd pin > configuration > BAR43 {same} > BCW71 transistor, NPN SOT23 All this SMDs shouldn't be special kind, any generic SMD will do for you after cross-referring them all to find suitable alterative SMDs off any dud boards, hard drives (like Maxtor 7xxx series. lots of SMDs there.) I did this all the time to fix anything that has blown SMDs. They're not too vital since it's all digital low or high also current is very few mA. Some that has a flat thick tab for soldered on heat conduction via PCB layer get it from any old hard drives if it's compatiable enough. Where does these parts goes onto and what is this circuit section? > SMSC FDC37C665GT SuperIO chip, QFP100 SMC of this # is found on Asus P/I-P55T4XEG series and few other late 486 and old pentium boards. Unmount it and put that on your pet project, it uses 24 MHz input. I have done few times to repair boards. > Zilog Z8018216FSC1932 Microprocessor, QFP100 This one, I don't know of one to suggest. Cheers, Wizard From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon Feb 12 21:44:23 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <001901c09513$c1696140$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A885937.20009.12CFB3@localhost> I could almost agree except from what I understand, this guy did none of those things. He found someone who already had a complete setup in his garage and took it off his hands. He then "fired it up" without testing the power supply first or anything else and then began looking for a "buyer". Either way, he put it up on ebay and I'm sure someone out there will pay him what he wants for it. It's more than I'd pay but if someone else does and they're happy then more power to them. I won't knock ebay, I've used it myself to pick up systems (never sold on there) but I've found for me that if I wait and watch long enough, I'll find the exact same thing for much less at some point. Besides, it's much more fun to be the one to pick up parts here and there and put that system together myself than buy it lock, stock and barrel. Maybe that's the difference between many of the people on this list and those that spend big bucks on ebay. On 12 Feb 2001, at 9:49, Richard Erlacher wrote: > There's been a lot of hardware sold on eBay that had no assurance that > it would ever work, no documentation, missing parts, etc, and it's > good to see that people are putting enough value on that by bidding up > the items that are complete and, above all, CLEAN and undamaged. > > I believe that the reason eBay prices offend so many of the folks who > follow this list is that they're accustomed to picking things out of > the junk heap and subsequently putting forth the effort to turn the > "sow's ear" into the desired "silk purse" by gather up what's needed > to return the originally junk hardware in to something of use, and, > hence, of value. These high prices simply reflect the fact that there > are people out there who appreciate that it does take lots of effort > to return a 25-year-old piece of stored-in-the-shed hardware in to a > clean, functional, piece of computer memorabilia complete with > documentation and software, that actually does something. > > Dick ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 12 21:21:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176143@EXCH002> Message-ID: <751.444T300T2614385optimus@canit.se> Julian Richardson skrev: >OK, what on earth happened to the Dejanews archive? Seems like they've been >taken over by Google (leading us one step closer to a single corporation >controlling the entire world, no doubt! :-) At least that's a step in the right direction. Google are actually providing a good, clean service, whereas the big players such as Altavista and Deja(News) have turned into Yahoo-esque media conglomerates offering everything but a search engine. Perhaps will this mean that one won't have to wade through tonnes of ads and unasked for services on Deja in the future? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Hey, I had to let awk be better at *something*... :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <1991Nov7.200504.25280@netlabs.com>1 From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 12 21:47:35 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: MegaGraphics MegaVideo upgrade for the Mac Plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <329.444T1750T2875171optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >Now I find out the truth behind my friends hunt for a EGA/VGA. What he has >is actually an old mac plus era video box. Anybody remember this one? I haven't, but chances are someone on the LowendMac.com lists does. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Life begins at '030. Fun begins at '040. Impotence begins at '86. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Feb 12 22:54:07 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <3A885937.20009.12CFB3@localhost> References: <001901c09513$c1696140$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010212205108.0206edb0@208.226.86.10> >... I won't knock ebay, I've used it >myself to pick up systems (never sold on there) but I've found for >me that if I wait and watch long enough, I'll find the exact same >thing for much less at some point. This is very true. I tell people this all the time, for things that are less than 20 yrs old (and thus have a very good chance of still being in the original owner's possession) you can trade money for time. The issue is always you know how much money 'now' but can't know how much time. After 20 years the original owners (especially for privately owned things) tend to have disposed of them already so they are either already in a collector's hands or in the dump. --Chuck From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 12 23:46:46 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Epson Action Laser II In-Reply-To: <001001c09543$bd45f580$f1711fd1@default> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > I will have look real hard around but somewhere I believe I have the > manual for OKI. Will let you know Thanks! I'd like to borrow it. - don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Maslin" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 6:47 PM > Subject: RE: Epson Action Laser II > > > > > > > > On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Henry Broekhuyse wrote: > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Christian > Fandt > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 1:29 PM > > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > Subject: Epson Action Laser II > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody have a manual for the subject laser printer? I think it's > > > > barely on > > > > topic (at least ten years old) as I recall it being bought > sometime before > > > > I moved to the new offices at my old employer in early 1992. > > > > > > The manuals can be found here: > > > > > > > http://support.epson.com/hardware/printer/laser/al2___/documentation.htm > l > > > > > > > Boy, I wish Okidata was as good on documentation for their printers. > I > > picked up an OL400E LED Page printer and I cannot even find a > meaningful > > FAQ on it! > > - don > > > > > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 13 00:16:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: MegaGraphics MegaVideo upgrade for the Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <329.444T1750T2875171optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >Mike Ford skrev: > >>Now I find out the truth behind my friends hunt for a EGA/VGA. What he has >>is actually an old mac plus era video box. Anybody remember this one? > >I haven't, but chances are someone on the LowendMac.com lists does. Thats where the poor lad was told it was EGA. :( From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 13 00:18:39 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010212205108.0206edb0@208.226.86.10> References: <3A885937.20009.12CFB3@localhost> <001901c09513$c1696140$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >>myself to pick up systems (never sold on there) but I've found for >>me that if I wait and watch long enough, I'll find the exact same >>thing for much less at some point. > >This is very true. I tell people this all the time, for things that are >less than 20 yrs old (and thus have a very good chance of still being in >the original owner's possession) you can trade money for time. The issue is The great risk is that by the time you find it, you don't really want it anymore. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Feb 13 04:43:46 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Dejanews Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176147@exchange.softwright.co.uk> > They've promised exactly that; they bought the whole thing, and > notes > that they're bringing the whole thing online, in the first couple of > paragraphs. Indexing a few terabytes of data seems an excusable reason > to not have it ready right away :-) Deja didn't have the older archives available for a while now. Every time I emailed their support service I got an automated reply back saying that it was temporarily unavailable - I suppose that if this takeover was looming then that explains a lot. Oh, I don't know about them having the last 6 months up at the moment by the way - yesterday afternoon they didn't have some of my posts and follow-ups from less than a week ago. Hopefully there'll be a way of grabbing group archives to local storage - that'll be handy. I hope they put some serious work into the UI too and actually make it look like a piece of newsreader software rather than a bad web front-end (as dejanews was and as the site is currently) cheers Jules -- From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Feb 13 05:50:38 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Tek XD88 Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176151@exchange.softwright.co.uk> Well, it seems like I have posting access to the list again, so I'll dig out this little question that I keep on asking occasionally... I've got the remains of a Tektronix XD88/10 Unix workstation from the late 80's. I've only got the system unit and the keyboard - no mouse or monitor. I do have a 16" sony monitor that I know works fine with it though, so that leaves a mouse to find from somewhere, or to make one from something else (no idea what protocol or type of mouse the system needs though) The hard disk is almost dead though, starting to give read errors all over the place - from memory the system won't boot any more. I expect I can get a replacement disk easily enough - probably even a modern 3.5" SCSI drive would work I expect to replace the 5.25" full-height drive. The machine's got a SCSI-1 drive, around 400MB, but I think SCSI-2 drives will work in the old SCSI modes won't they? (I have a 400MB 3.5" drive which could replace it if so) What I don't have though is the OS tapes (a common problem for 80's hardware I expect!). I'm waiting to hear back from Tek but they couldn't provide any help last time I tried a couple of years ago. Does anyone on the list have such a machine or know someone who has? Is it worth me trying to do a raw backup of the disk before it fails completely? I can put it in my main PC at home which has SCSI and read raw data from it under linux (not sure what filesystem Tek used, proprietary I expect) but don't know if I'm wasting my time there - I don't know if that'll give me anything useful at the end of the day anyway. Even assuming I could find an identical working drive and do a raw copy of the failing disk onto it (at the block level), would that work - or is there always going to be some sector translation at a lower level which meant that the contents of the "new" disk wouldn't make any sense when put into the system? Thanks for any help, Jules ps. I don't know how many of these machines Tek sold, but it feels like about 5 given the amount of information there is around about them! :-) -- From r.stek at snet.net Tue Feb 13 05:52:17 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: RE: the Sol on eBay ... Yeah, the guy apparently knows little about what he is selling. He attributes its name to "Solomon Libes - an editor at Popular Electronics," rather than Les Solomon. Even the quickest search on the web would have turned up more accurate info than what he presents. Given the bidding is up to $1400+, I may start considering a trade for an Altair for one of mine! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Feb 13 06:09:15 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: MegaGraphics MegaVideo upgrade for the Mac Plus In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Feb 12, 2001 10:16:11 pm" Message-ID: <200102131209.f1DC9FS14966@bg-tc-ppp1299.monmouth.com> > >Mike Ford skrev: > > > >>Now I find out the truth behind my friends hunt for a EGA/VGA. What he has > >>is actually an old mac plus era video box. Anybody remember this one? > > > >I haven't, but chances are someone on the LowendMac.com lists does. > > Thats where the poor lad was told it was EGA. :( > Some were both... The Sony monitors (1304?) we used at Bell Labs were 14 inch multisync and could be used on EGA/VGA with the right cable. They were also sold with Mac compatible cables... Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Feb 13 06:52:13 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: parts needed Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E3761@MAIL10> Russ: Digi-Key is one of my favorite suppliers. They do have SMDs, but not these. As far as the IO chip and the microprocessor, these are unfortunately too specific for them to carry. DK does not carry SMSC at all, and the Zilog line is represented only by the Z8 series. I never thought of MCM. Thanks for that one. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:russ@rbcs.8m.com] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 6:49 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: parts needed Have you tried DigiKey. I haven't looked through my catalog as it's buried in a box right now but they sshould have many of these parts. MCM Electronics in Ohio also has many items and even if not in their catalog they can outsorce them many times. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cini, Richard Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:15 PM To: 'ClassCompList' Subject: OT: parts needed Hello, all: Well, I'm going to embark on another project--to build the P112 Z80182 SBC. As you may recall, this is a nifty Z80-based SBC that's the size of a 3.5" floppy drive and uses a standard PC I/O controller for disk support. Dave Brooks no longer makes the machines, but I was able to purchase a bare board from him for $25. Anyway, it requires a few SMD components which I can locate at Arrow and Pioneer Standard, but there are purchase minimums that I can't meet. I can probably order the chips in one-offs but not the SMDs. So, I'm looking for the following: BAR43C Schottky diode SOT23, common cathode ; has odd pin configuration BAR43 {same} BCW71 transistor, NPN SOT23 SMSC FDC37C665GT SuperIO chip, QFP100 Zilog Z8018216FSC1932 Microprocessor, QFP100 Anyway, if anyone has a source for these in hobbiest contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 13 08:20:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Tek XD88 In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176151@exchange.softwright .co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010213092023.0a5f39da@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:50 AM 2/13/01 -0000, you wrote: >Well, it seems like I have posting access to the list again, so I'll dig out >this little question that I keep on asking occasionally... > >I've got the remains of a Tektronix XD88/10 Unix workstation from the late >80's. I've only got the system unit and the keyboard - no mouse or monitor. >I do have a 16" sony monitor that I know works fine with it though, so that >leaves a mouse to find from somewhere, or to make one from something else >(no idea what protocol or type of mouse the system needs though) What kind of connector does your mouse use? I have some Tektronix mice. These have a DB-9M plug. I THINK I have some that use another connector also but I'd have to dig around to be sure. > >The hard disk is almost dead though, starting to give read errors all over >the place - from memory the system won't boot any more. I expect I can get a >replacement disk easily enough - probably even a modern 3.5" SCSI drive >would work I expect to replace the 5.25" full-height drive. The machine's >got a SCSI-1 drive, around 400MB, but I think SCSI-2 drives will work in >the old SCSI modes won't they? (I have a 400MB 3.5" drive which could >replace it if so) > >What I don't have though is the OS tapes (a common problem for 80's hardware >I expect!). I'm waiting to hear back from Tek but they couldn't provide any >help last time I tried a couple of years ago. Does anyone on the list have >such a machine or know someone who has? I don't know where they went to but there were several machines like that at an auction at Patrick AFB a couple of years ago. I'd suggest that you check with Dean Kidd or some of the other guys that supply parts and manuals for Tektronix test equipment. Also check with Rick Bensene (sp?). He used to work for Tek and may be able to tell you more about the machine. > >Is it worth me trying to do a raw backup of the disk before it fails >completely? Absolutely! I can put it in my main PC at home which has SCSI and read raw >data from it under linux (not sure what filesystem Tek used, proprietary I >expect) but don't know if I'm wasting my time there - I don't know if >that'll give me anything useful at the end of the day anyway. Even assuming >I could find an identical working drive and do a raw copy of the failing >disk onto it (at the block level), would that work - or is there always >going to be some sector translation at a lower level which meant that the >contents of the "new" disk wouldn't make any sense when put into the system? > >Thanks for any help, > >Jules > >ps. I don't know how many of these machines Tek sold, but it feels like >about 5 given the amount of information there is around about them! :-) If so then thats about 3 more than 8170s! I've looked high and low and found almost nothing on them. I did find one guy in Australia that used to have one. The hard drive in my 8170 seems to be completely dead. I can't get any response from it. Luckily I did get one floppy disk that has most of the OS. Joe >-- > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 13 07:54:20 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:38 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010212205108.0206edb0@208.226.86.10> References: <3A885937.20009.12CFB3@localhost> <001901c09513$c1696140$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010213075302.027c0440@pc> At 08:54 PM 2/12/01 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote: >This is very true. I tell people this all the time, for things that are less than 20 yrs old (and thus have a very good chance of still being in the original owner's possession) you can trade money for time. Three cheers for eBay's ability to fulfill wishes held since early in life. Lately I've been acquiring toys I miss from childhood: latest acquisition, a TOG'L building-block set. - John From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Feb 13 08:52:09 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509E1A@TEGNTSERVER> I wish I'd have known... how much did your TOG'L blocks cost (I got a well-worn set)...? -dq > -----Original Message----- > From: John Foust [mailto:jfoust@threedee.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:54 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! > > > At 08:54 PM 2/12/01 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote: > >This is very true. I tell people this all the time, for > things that are less than 20 yrs old (and thus have a very > good chance of still being in the original owner's > possession) you can trade money for time. > > Three cheers for eBay's ability to fulfill wishes held since early > in life. Lately I've been acquiring toys I miss from childhood: > latest acquisition, a TOG'L building-block set. > > - John > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 13 09:28:52 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Dejanews Message-ID: If you need news now, you can always use mailgate.org... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 13 09:32:17 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: I think I'd trade a SOL, an Altair, and an IMSAI for a System/38 or System/34.. Hell even for an AS/400 with a complete copy of the OS.. Not that I have any of those 3 machines; If I did, I'm sure Bob could use another SOL and other list members could use an Altair or an IMSAI.. I certainly have no real place for them.. Somewhat unrelated to minicomputers. BTW, Bob, plese e-mail me, I have a SOL-related article for you. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Feb 13 09:39:52 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010212205108.0206edb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A8900E8.22702.2346F7@localhost> On 12 Feb 2001, at 22:18, Mike Ford wrote: > The great risk is that by the time you find it, you don't really want > it anymore. Given how long I've wanted many of these systems, more than 20 years in some cases, I don't think that's really a problem. :) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 13 10:22:21 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <3A8900E8.22702.2346F7@localhost> "from David Williams at Feb 13, 2001 09:39:52 am" Message-ID: <200102131622.KAA18045@caesar.cs.umn.edu> "After a time, you may discover that Having, is not so pleasurable a thing after all, as Wanting. It is not Logical. But it is often true." -Mr Spock, "Amok Time", original Star Trek > On 12 Feb 2001, at 22:18, Mike Ford wrote: > > The great risk is that by the time you find it, you don't really want > > it anymore. > > Given how long I've wanted many of these systems, more than 20 > years in some cases, I don't think that's really a problem. :) > > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > You can learn to like the life you live > or live the life you like. > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > From optimus at canit.se Tue Feb 13 10:14:19 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: MegaGraphics MegaVideo upgrade for the Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <200102131209.f1DC9FS14966@bg-tc-ppp1299.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <761.444T950T10345075optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> >Mike Ford skrev: >> > >> >>Now I find out the truth behind my friends hunt for a EGA/VGA. What he >> >>has is actually an old mac plus era video box. Anybody remember this one? >> > >> >I haven't, but chances are someone on the LowendMac.com lists does. >> >> Thats where the poor lad was told it was EGA. :( >Some were both... The Sony monitors (1304?) we used at Bell Labs were 14 >inch multisync and could be used on EGA/VGA with the right cable. Both my NEC and Eizo monitors are both digital and analogue as well. Very handy if you're running a whole lot of odd platforms. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Feb 13 12:59:01 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <200102131622.KAA18045@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <3A8900E8.22702.2346F7@localhost> "from David Williams at Feb 13, 2001 09:39:52 am" Message-ID: <3A892F95.5830.D9A1A6@localhost> On 13 Feb 2001, at 10:22, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > "After a time, you may discover that Having, is not so pleasurable a > thing > after all, as Wanting. It is not Logical. But it is often true." > > -Mr Spock, "Amok Time", original Star Trek YMMV but I find most of his sayings to little bearing on real life in general. At least for me. Call me illogical. :-) As I found when I finally picked up an Exidy Sorcerer and the Sol- 20, two machines I've wanted the longest, that having the machine and finally being able play with it was MUCH more pleasurable than looking at the old ads and reviews and wishing I had one. And one tends to learn a lot more about the machine as well. I'll take having the system over wanting it any day. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 13 13:22:03 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <3A892F95.5830.D9A1A6@localhost> "from David Williams at Feb 13, 2001 12:59:01 pm" Message-ID: <200102131922.NAA18896@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On 13 Feb 2001, at 10:22, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > "After a time, you may discover that Having, is not so pleasurable a > > thing > > after all, as Wanting. It is not Logical. But it is often true." > > > > -Mr Spock, "Amok Time", original Star Trek > > YMMV but I find most of his sayings to little bearing on real life in > general. At least for me. Call me illogical. :-) > "Logic is a Tweeting Bird, that smells Awful!" - Mr Spock, "I, Mudd" From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Tue Feb 13 14:02:09 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: HP BASIC & SRM newbie Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010213150209.00eacd1c@obregon.multi.net.co> Hi; Jarkko Teppo wrote: >Hello, >Some background: I was going through my computers last weekend, trying to >get their operational status changed from "mothballed" to something else. >I found a couple of HP 9153C & 9153s from the storage and in an act of >desperation decided to connect them to a 9000/382 running HP-UX. Imagine my >surprise when the 382 started booting HP BASIC! Actually, the '200 and '300 series started as instrument controllers using BASIC (though PASCAL and LISP systems were also available). Then came HPUX. >After that I went searching for another machine (found a 340, 310 and an SRM >server). First I tried to boot basic on the SRM server, but that failed due >to not having enough memory (512KB). I eventually got it working with the >310 + HP composite video card + Phillips monitor. > >A couple of questions: > What can I do with it and where do I find more info ? I don't know much about the SRM server; I always used stand-alone BASIC systems, then went straight to networked HPUX systems. HP Basic is optimized for instrument control via HPIB. That's about the best use for these machines; many test systems used these little guys as controllers. I had to get rid of my 236, 310's, 320's and 340 before I moved, and my 380 won't run BASIC for some reason, so now I can only run HP BASIC in one of my BASIC Language Processors (aka "viper" card). I do have most of the DOCS for BASIC 5.0/5.1 . > I've never used HP BASIC so the only commands I got > working were PRINT and a mysterious LIST BIN, which gave > me more than a screenfull of stuff like this: > "CLOCK 5.0". I assume this is HP BASIC 5.0 ? That is a list of the BIN modules that are built into your particular BASIC system. You'll typically find the CS80 disk driver, the HFS (hyerarchical file system) module, the complex arithmetic module, the HPIB, keyboard, console, video, serial drivers .... stuff like that. > I guess I can use this with the SRM server ? > Do I need extra software to go from HP-UX to SRM ? (I've go extra cards) > >I don't even know how the access the disk drives :) some commands to get you started: CAT ":, 700" will list the contents of the drive at HPIB address 0 CAT ":, 700, 1" will list the contents of the floppy if the device at HPIB address 0 is an HP9153C INITIALIZE ":, 700, 1" will format the floppy with default parameters MSI ":,701" will make the drive at address 1 the default "mass storage is" device. COPY ":,700" TO ":,701" will duplicate the volume at adress 0 again at adress 1 COPY "MYFILE:,700" TO "NEWFILE:,701" Carlos. From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 13 14:37:27 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <3A892F95.5830.D9A1A6@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, David Williams wrote: > As I found when I finally picked up an Exidy Sorcerer and the Sol- > 20, two machines I've wanted the longest, that having the machine > and finally being able play with it was MUCH more pleasurable than > looking at the old ads and reviews and wishing I had one. And one > tends to learn a lot more about the machine as well. I'll take having > the system over wanting it any day. To this, Spockrates might have said: "There cannot be having without wanting." :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 13 15:52:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I think I'd trade a SOL, an Altair, and an IMSAI for a System/38 or >System/34.. Hell even for an AS/400 with a complete copy of the OS.. Not Most older AS/400 go for about $75 at the auctions I've been to in SoCal. From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 13 16:26:05 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: (fwd) ALL Electric Components (fwd) Message-ID: Since a recent topic was SMD, this may be of use. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Path: thoth.cts.com!ragnarok.cts.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Reply-To: "John Myers" From: "John Myers" Newsgroups: alt.cellular.gsm,alt.cellular.motorola,alt.cellular.nokia,alt.cellular.oki,alt.cellular.tech,alt.comp.hardware.amd.thunderbird,alt.comp.hardware.buz,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking Subject: ALL Electric Components Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 20:24:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.178.154.129 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 982095848 209.178.154.129 (Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:24:08 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:24:08 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: thoth.cts.com alt.cellular.gsm:53659 alt.cellular.motorola:34761 alt.cellular.nokia:169424 alt.cellular.tech:10567 alt.comp.hardware.amd.thunderbird:4800 alt.comp.hardware.buz:286 alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt:64430 alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned:9959 alt.comp.hardware.overclocking:240902 I can help you with both surface mount and leaded components with over 22 billion parts in stock. In addition to our own brand of surface mount and leaded components, we have the largest stock of Samsung passive components in North America.We have substantial quantities of tantalum capacitors and other components from the following manufacturers, AVX, Murata, Kemet, Sprague, Panasonic, Nichicon, Taiyo Yuden.We have an outstanding line of surface mount and through hole Crystals and Oscillators in many different packages. In addition I have a division that specializes in all active components handling many different brands. We our exceptional at locating hard-to-find items on both passive and active components. If you have bid for bid quotes or need samples for prototypes you will always find prompt and reliable service. Please E-MAIL bevanhaycraft@yahoo.com -- end of forwarded message -- From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Feb 13 16:04:15 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! References: Message-ID: <015501c09609$0077d7e0$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! > >I think I'd trade a SOL, an Altair, and an IMSAI for a System/38 or > >System/34.. Hell even for an AS/400 with a complete copy of the OS.. Not > > Most older AS/400 go for about $75 at the auctions I've been to in SoCal. > I'd bet their HDs have been wiped. IIRC, the problem with AS/400s, RS-6000s, and many other IBM minis is that the OS is only leased from IBM, and it's not transferable. So a company can't legally give you the installation media, root passwords, etc. And there are no hobbiest licences available. I suspect that's why Will specified "with a complete copy of the OS" when he so rashly offered to trade Altairs, IMSAIs, etc. Cheers, Mark. From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Feb 13 16:50:52 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Retrocomputing Archive... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've just installed a nice message forum package at the Retrocomputing Archive (formerly was the Commercial CP/M Software Archive) for the use of the community. The forums can be accessed from http://www.retroarchive.org. Come on by and check it out. Thanks for your time. Gene Buckle Admin, Retrocomputing Archive geneb@deltasoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 13 16:51:49 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: References: <3A892F95.5830.D9A1A6@localhost> Message-ID: >To this, Spockrates might have said: > >"There cannot be having without wanting." A pimple on the nose easily disproves that. From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Feb 13 17:37:22 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <3A89C532.BC159852@eoni.com> This may be off-topic, but are there any SPARCstation users on the list? I just came into one with a missing hard drive and am looking for O/S information to make it live again. If it is O/T, please p-mail me. Jim From celt at chisp.net Tue Feb 13 17:41:57 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (/mpm) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Quest for Apple II Red Book References: Message-ID: <3A89C645.90101@chisp.net> Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > I want to begin my quest for a copy of the Apple II "Red Book." > > If anyone has a copy and can tell me if it has an ISBN number on it, and > what that number is, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > ClubWin! Group 1 > Collector of Classic Computers > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /*****************************************/ Found the Driveway like you're looking for. The scans of the Red Book (through page 76) can be found here: http://www.driveway.com/share?sid=65791ca7.5cc7c&name=A2.Documents /mpm From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 13 17:47:45 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: <015501c09609$0077d7e0$0200a8c0@marvin> References: Message-ID: >> >I think I'd trade a SOL, an Altair, and an IMSAI for a System/38 or >> >System/34.. Hell even for an AS/400 with a complete copy of the OS.. Not >> >> Most older AS/400 go for about $75 at the auctions I've been to in SoCal. >> > >I'd bet their HDs have been wiped. IIRC, the problem with AS/400s, >RS-6000s, and many other IBM minis is that the OS is only leased from IBM, >and it's not transferable. So a company can't legally give you the >installation media, root passwords, etc. And there are no hobbiest licences >available. At a bankruptcy auction anything is possible. Most of the time anything an employee thinks is valuable has been looted, but the OS out of a AS/400 doesn't fit that picture. I've seen stuff go across the block that is plainly marked as leased or rented, UPS and FedEx shipping stuff, filing cabnets still full of recent transactions, refridgerators still with lunch sacks. From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 13 17:12:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >To this, Spockrates might have said: > > > >"There cannot be having without wanting." > > A pimple on the nose easily disproves that. One does not "have" a pimple on the nose. Rather, one only endures a pimple on the nose. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 13 18:45:20 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <3A89C532.BC159852@eoni.com> from "Jim Arnott" at Feb 13, 2001 03:37:22 PM Message-ID: <200102140045.QAA31877@shell1.aracnet.com> > This may be off-topic, but are there any SPARCstation users on the > list? I just came into one with a missing hard drive and am looking > for O/S information to make it live again. > > If it is O/T, please p-mail me. > > Jim Probably pretty close to being on topic. You can run up to either Solaris 2.6 or 7 on it. Max RAM is 64MB, or 96/128MB with special S-Bus and piggyback cards (32MB each). Uses Narrow SCSI. I'd recommend checking out OpenBSD or NetBSD for it. It's old and slow so a lightweight OS helps. Zane From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 13 20:00:07 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! In-Reply-To: References: <015501c09609$0077d7e0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010213210007.3cd7448e@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:47 PM 2/13/01 -0800, you wrote: >>> >I think I'd trade a SOL, an Altair, and an IMSAI for a System/38 or >>> >System/34.. Hell even for an AS/400 with a complete copy of the OS.. Not >>> >>> Most older AS/400 go for about $75 at the auctions I've been to in SoCal. >>> >> >>I'd bet their HDs have been wiped. IIRC, the problem with AS/400s, >>RS-6000s, and many other IBM minis is that the OS is only leased from IBM, >>and it's not transferable. So a company can't legally give you the >>installation media, root passwords, etc. And there are no hobbiest licences >>available. > >At a bankruptcy auction anything is possible. Most of the time anything an >employee thinks is valuable has been looted, but the OS out of a AS/400 >doesn't fit that picture. I've seen stuff go across the block that is >plainly marked as leased or rented, UPS and FedEx shipping stuff, filing >cabnets still full of recent transactions, refridgerators still with lunch >sacks. > One of my most interesting finds along that line is a pre-production HP 85. It has several labels that clearly state that it is property of HP and is not for sale. However they loaned it to Martin Marietta and never bothered to retrieve it. About two years ago MM surplused it and I found it in the trash pile at a scrap company. Considering that the HP 85s are about 15 years old, HP probably left it with MM for at least 13 years. Joe From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 13 19:17:23 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Holy Crap! IMSAI's weren't this expensive when new! Message-ID: Mark is entirely correct on this one.. I must say that, since I own 7 AS/400's, not ever getting the OS with them tends to make me a little frustrated! I do have an OS/400 upgrade tape for version 2 something to version 2 something else, but since I don't have the version you apply the upgrade to... I also have 2 MULIC tapes (Model Unique Licensed Internal Code), which I know are required for the OS, and are processor-specific. Note that I am speaking only for CISC machines. Oddly, one of the things that was with the machines was an IBM license document, I don't know what it was for exactly, but it essentially says you can't sell the program but you can give it to someone, so long as you destroy/give them all your copies, yadda yadda yadda. And technically speaking, I wasn't entirely serious about trading those 3 for any of those machines, I'd rather offer them to this list.. The worst thing about the Altair, etc. for me at least, would be that it would come down to a debate between the fact that I need the money and the fact that I'd rather people who are going to appreciate the machines have them, and naturally, it's quite possible that cash could be maximized by selling to someone who would minimize the use, etc. of the machine.. But if anyone ever sees any AS/400 software show up at auctions, regardless of model, BUY IT and I will gladly reimburse you.. I'd also be especially happy if someone found IBM 4300 software for me, especially VM/SP release 5 or 6, or MVS (OS/VS2), or AIX/370.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 13 19:19:36 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Prototype HP stuff Message-ID: Hmm, that HP 85 reminds me of my oscilliscope (yes I know I cannot spell that word unless I'm looking at the instrument), which is an HP 140A. The 'scope isn't a prototype, but one of the plugins has no serial number and is inscribed "lab proto #3"... interesting, isn't it? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 13 20:16:47 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: <200102140216.SAA02190@shell1.aracnet.com> OK, this is sort of on/off-topic, but..... Out of curiousity, has anyone run E11 (PDP-11 Emulator) on Windows ME? Are there any compatibility issues between Win98 and WinME? I just got my wife a low-end Thinkpad and am wanting to be able to run E11 on it. Zane From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Tue Feb 13 20:55:21 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke References: <963.434T1500T2405409optimus@canit.se> <3A7C4A87.E3CBC1AF@mainecoon.com> Message-ID: <009301c09631$92daca70$71f2fea9@dellhare> Iggy/Chris - The STS (Space Shuttle) actually uses a IBM Federal Systems-build redundant computer system called the Advanced System/4Pi Model AP-101 computer around 1978-1979. (And yup, there was a 3/Pi.) Not a 1750x clone, but was 32-bit rad-hardened system, and expensive. Some of the work was done here in Boulder Colorado and some IBM overview stuff can be found at http://www.ibm.com/IBM/history/timeline.nsf/products3. Actually a pretty good system, with I believe four riding in the original STS design using voting as main redundancy check. Several other interesting IBM "gummint" projects have taken place in Boulder, but... Bruce bkr@WildHareComputers.com www.WildHareComputers.com www.SimuLogics.com [Novas are forever...] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Kennedy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke > Iggy Drougge wrote: > > [snip] > > > What's wrong with old-arsed computer anyway??? > > Particularly in space-based applications, where flight qualification for > man-rated hardware is a pangalactic bitch. > > > BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually used core memory, > > apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory. > > I'm sure that's a component -- even contemporary dynamic memory is less > rad hard than you'd probably like, but that's hardly the overriding reason. > My increasingly dim memory suggests that the processor are slightly modified > 1750A machines. There was some indication that they were a derivative of the > processor using in the F-16, but I never was able to verify that. Being '70s > designs suggests that core would have been the only real option. > > > Could anyone confirm whether this still holds true? > > I have no idea if the processors are being swapped out as part of the > flight deck modernization program. If so it can't be too radical a > departure from the existing architecture, since only one orbiter has > completed that modification cycle and the thought of having two > sets of tools for building the code loads for the orbiters staggers the > mind. > > Oh yeah, that's the other thing. The code load for each orbiter is unique > to the mission, and there's no real executive function -- it's a bunch > of cooperating real-time tasks, such that if one pukes out it probably > takes out the rest. There's been at least one documented case where > the flight code load, during on-the-pad prelaunch simulation, dropped > the ball and the flight deck displays ended up with the shuttle's > answer to the BSOD -- an 'X' drawn through the flight deck displays. > > If you think that's odd, you should check out the way that voting works... > > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From harrison at timharrison.com Tue Feb 13 20:48:26 2001 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 References: <3A89C532.BC159852@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3A89F1FA.E563F295@timharrison.com> Jim Arnott wrote: > This may be off-topic, but are there any SPARCstation users on the > list? I just came into one with a missing hard drive and am looking > for O/S information to make it live again. Hey Jim. I just picked up 2 SS2s for the collective. Bought 2 2.1G 50-pin SCSI disks and an extra 16M RAM for both (they are coming with 16M per box). For RAM, check out www.memoryx.com. Also, www.compgeeks.com was really cheap for drives (although, I've heard some somewhat annoying things about their service). NetBSD is pretty rapid on these machines, and Solaris is a bit slow (what do you expect, it's an older box, and Solaris is big :)). They make decent workhorses, as long as you don't bother running X on them (some might disagree, but my idea of quick is different from that of others). -- Tim Harrison Network Administrator harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Feb 13 20:59:46 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: <005201c09632$93cc12d0$51759a8d@ajp166> From: healyzh@aracnet.com >OK, this is sort of on/off-topic, but..... > >Out of curiousity, has anyone run E11 (PDP-11 Emulator) on Windows ME? Are >there any compatibility issues between Win98 and WinME? I just got my wife >a low-end Thinkpad and am wanting to be able to run E11 on it. > > Zane WinME is W98 call it V3. It's MSs was of hiding the fact that they continued W98 two version past ehn they said it would end... Allison From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Feb 13 22:31:03 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 References: <3A89C532.BC159852@eoni.com> <3A89F1FA.E563F295@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <3A8A0A04.CC5F8E59@eoni.com> Thanks all. Looks like we'll see if we can do a BSD install. Biggest problem so far seems to be the 'virgin' drive. Gotta find a floppy disk sized formatter for it. Still open to suggestion! Jim From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 13 22:54:29 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <200102140216.SAA02190@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Feb 13, 1 06:16:47 pm" Message-ID: <200102140454.UAA14018@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Out of curiousity, has anyone run E11 (PDP-11 Emulator) on Windows ME? Are > there any compatibility issues between Win98 and WinME? I just got my wife > a low-end Thinkpad and am wanting to be able to run E11 on it. I doubt it, since WinME is the same old kernel (it's not the NT kernel of WinToke, er, 2K). It just claims "not to have DOS" but this, like 95 and 98 is an illusion (just a better hiding job has been done in ME). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Feb 14 01:49:24 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: Jim Arnott "Sun SPARCstation 2" (Feb 13, 15:37) References: <3A89C532.BC159852@eoni.com> Message-ID: <10102140749.ZM29091@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 13, 15:37, Jim Arnott wrote: > This may be off-topic, but are there any SPARCstation users on the > list? I just came into one with a missing hard drive and am looking > for O/S information to make it live again. I've got a Sparcstation 1+ which came diskless, and I worked out how to set up a hard drive for it (it now has one internal and one external running Soalris 2.3). If you can find a compatible SCSI CD-ROM drive (must be able to be set to 512-byte blocks, like a Toshiba or Plextor) and Solaris media (pre Solaris 8 for that architecture) it's easy to set up. Otherwise, try Linux or BSD. I can't offer much help over the next week or so as I'll be out of email range :-( but happy to help when I get back. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 14 07:03:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Prototype HP stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010214080359.3a07f694@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:19 PM 2/13/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hmm, that HP 85 reminds me of my oscilliscope (yes I know I cannot spell >that word unless I'm looking at the instrument), which is an HP 140A. The >'scope isn't a prototype, but one of the plugins has no serial number and is >inscribed "lab proto #3"... interesting, isn't it? Yes. It's surprising how much of that stuff gets out. Joe From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Feb 14 07:20:56 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: FW: Tek XD88 (disk copying / sectors etc) Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176162@exchange.softwright.co.uk> Hi, This was from a private email between Joe and myself - but as he says, there's plenty of disk / Unix experts on the list that might be able to answer this one! We were talking about the possibility of doing a raw backup of the failing disk in my Tek system and restoring it onto another disk to get it to work... > > I can > >get a 400MB disk dump from the drive by using dd on my linux system - but > is > >that any use? Assuming I could even find an identical drive as a > >replacement, even if I did something like catting the raw image to the > new > >disk, I'm not sure if that would give me something that would work (I'd > >still have the filesystem corruption too, but that's a separate problem) > > > >Do disks as read by dd appear as a bunch of linear sectors, regardless of > >drive parameters (heads, tracks etc.) - if that's the case then maybe I > have > >no problem; maybe I can even use any old drive providing it's the same > size > >or larger than the original disk? OK, I won't be using the full capacity > of > >the drive, but I don't really care :) (I have about 6 SCSI drives > sitting > >unused because I don't have space to put them in my main PC) > > > >I'm just thinking about inode tables and stuff and how they will probably > >get screwed up trying to do any raw copying... > What would be ideal would be if everything's just a linear bunch of blocks as far as dd and inode tables etc. are concerned - nice theory that I could use a different drive to replace the failing one, but I'm sure this wouldn't work! Anyone? The other thing I mentioned to Joe was the filesystem check - I remember at one point I could boot the Tek to single-user mode (throwing up a lot of filesystem errors along the way) and then run fsck - that'd give a lot of faults, but not correct them; any ideas how to do this? I'm fairly sure the system wouldn't even go to single-user last time I tried though. >From memory I managed to read all but a single block of data from the drive in a linux system a couple of years ago (might even still have that dump someplace) with a few retries, so if that block wasn't on something criticial, if I can get the raw data onto another drive somehow and if I can fix the filesystem I might be able to get a working system again (that's a few too many ifs though!) cheers Jules -- From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Feb 14 07:33:13 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <200102140216.SAA02190@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Feb 13, 2001 06:16:47 pm" Message-ID: <200102141333.f1EDXEu17555@bg-tc-ppp482.monmouth.com> > OK, this is sort of on/off-topic, but..... > > Out of curiousity, has anyone run E11 (PDP-11 Emulator) on Windows ME? Are > there any compatibility issues between Win98 and WinME? I just got my wife > a low-end Thinkpad and am wanting to be able to run E11 on it. > > Zane It should run just find. I've run it on a Thinkpad 760 with W98.... ME is just W98 v3. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Feb 14 07:34:54 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102140045.QAA31877@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Feb 13, 2001 04:45:20 pm" Message-ID: <200102141334.f1EDYt117574@bg-tc-ppp482.monmouth.com> > > This may be off-topic, but are there any SPARCstation users on the > > list? I just came into one with a missing hard drive and am looking > > for O/S information to make it live again. > > > > If it is O/T, please p-mail me. > > > > Jim I've got a pair... running Solaris and SunOS 4.1.4 and NetBSD and OpenBSD.... and occasionally Linux. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Feb 14 07:53:21 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <10102140749.ZM29091@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3A89C532.BC159852@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214075321.0085d560@ubanproductions.com> I use a Sparcstation IPX (sparc 2) for my firewall/NAT box. I put a second ethernet interface into it and run NetBSD. I tried Linux, but it runs like a dog in the sparc architecture due to a lack of simularity to the PC memory management scheme. NetBSD runs fine! Check out the NetBSD web site for ideas on getting your box up and running... http://www.netbsd.org --tom At 07:49 AM 2/14/01 GMT, you wrote: >On Feb 13, 15:37, Jim Arnott wrote: >> This may be off-topic, but are there any SPARCstation users on the >> list? I just came into one with a missing hard drive and am looking >> for O/S information to make it live again. > >I've got a Sparcstation 1+ which came diskless, and I worked out how to set >up a hard drive for it (it now has one internal and one external running >Soalris 2.3). If you can find a compatible SCSI CD-ROM drive (must be able >to be set to 512-byte blocks, like a Toshiba or Plextor) and Solaris media >(pre Solaris 8 for that architecture) it's easy to set up. Otherwise, try >Linux or BSD. > >I can't offer much help over the next week or so as I'll be out of email >range :-( but happy to help when I get back. > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > > From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Feb 14 08:19:48 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <90.10277535.27bbee04@aol.com> In a message dated 2/13/01 6:51:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrasite@eoni.com writes: > This may be off-topic, but are there any SPARCstation users on the > list? I just came into one with a missing hard drive and am looking > for O/S information to make it live again. > > If it is O/T, please p-mail me. > > Jim > I have one, and a few other Sparcstations as well. They use standard scsi drives although I would use a smaller capacity drive to avoid the extra heat generated by a large capacity drive. I have run OpenBSD, Solaris 7, and Linux on these. I much prefer Linux on them. NetBSD might be pretty good as well although I haven't had the time to check that one out yet. -Linc. From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Feb 14 09:02:57 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: >> ... any SPARCstation users ... looking >> for O/S information to make it live again. >> >> If it is O/T, please p-mail me. >> >> Jim > >... You can run up to either Solaris >2.6 or 7 on it.... > > Zane NeXTStep 3.3 or 4.x also had versions which ran on Sparc hardware. - Mark From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Feb 14 09:36:12 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 References: Message-ID: <009b01c0969b$dc35e230$faea0191@olf.com> Yep, which I have, but it was not NeXTStep, it was OpenStep. It still needs Solaris to run. It was just a window manager with the appropriate OpenStep development environment, not the actual MACH-based OS. I run OpenStep, CDE, Openwindows, Motif Window Manager on my Solaris 2.6-based Sparc IPX... Ram ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Tapley" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2 > >> ... any SPARCstation users ... looking > >> for O/S information to make it live again. > >> > >> If it is O/T, please p-mail me. > >> > >> Jim > > > >... You can run up to either Solaris > >2.6 or 7 on it.... > > > > Zane > > NeXTStep 3.3 or 4.x also had versions which ran on Sparc hardware. > - Mark > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 14 09:30:22 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <90.10277535.27bbee04@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214073022.009a6530@192.168.42.129> At 09:19 14-02-2001 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/13/01 6:51:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrasite@eoni.com >writes: > >> This may be off-topic, but are there any SPARCstation users on the >> list? I just came into one with a missing hard drive and am looking >> for O/S information to make it live again. My entire domain is based on Sun SPARCStation LX's and SPARCClassics, with a lone IPC for my primary DNS box. I run NetBSD, Qmail, Apache, and (soon) NNTPCache. I expect to set up NIS pretty soon as well. That one will be a VAXServer. ;-) FWIW, NetBSD runs very well on all of them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From optimus at canit.se Tue Feb 13 21:04:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102140045.QAA31877@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <433.445T2700T2446537optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >Probably pretty close to being on topic. You can run up to either Solaris >2.6 or 7 on it. Max RAM is 64MB, or 96/128MB with special S-Bus and >piggyback cards (32MB each). Uses Narrow SCSI. I'd recommend checking out >OpenBSD or NetBSD for it. It's old and slow so a lightweight OS helps. Are Net and OpenBSD light-weight OSes? Holy smokes! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Computer hackers do it all night long. From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Feb 14 10:00:01 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 References: <009b01c0969b$dc35e230$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: <00a901c0969f$30527290$faea0191@olf.com> Oops, let me take that back, NeXTStep does exist for Sparcs as well as OpenStep for Solaris which was what I was talking about.... Ram ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ram Meenakshisundaram" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 10:36 AM Subject: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2 > Yep, which I have, but it was not NeXTStep, it was OpenStep. It still > needs Solaris to run. It was just a window manager with the appropriate > OpenStep development environment, not the actual MACH-based OS. > I run OpenStep, CDE, Openwindows, Motif Window Manager on my > Solaris 2.6-based Sparc IPX... > > Ram > > > > NeXTStep 3.3 or 4.x also had versions which ran on Sparc hardware. > > - Mark > > From jruschme at mac.com Wed Feb 14 10:06:55 2001 From: jruschme at mac.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: <200102140433.WAA81013@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200102140433.WAA81013@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >Date: 13 Feb 01 04:21:06 +0100 >From: "Iggy Drougge" >Subject: Re: Dejanews > >Julian Richardson skrev: > >>OK, what on earth happened to the Dejanews archive? Seems like they've been >>taken over by Google (leading us one step closer to a single corporation >>controlling the entire world, no doubt! :-) > >At least that's a step in the right direction. Google are actually providing a >good, clean service, whereas the big players such as Altavista and Deja(News) >have turned into Yahoo-esque media conglomerates offering everything but a >search engine. Perhaps will this mean that one won't have to wade through >tonnes of ads and unasked for services on Deja in the future? Even better, they are going to be reinstating the dejaNews archives back to 1995. Now if someone would just find a way to incorporate the old Usenet on CD archives and, perhaps, take donations of single articles that people may have archived personally. <<>> From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 10:41:27 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: FW: Tek XD88 (disk copying / sectors etc) In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176162@exchange.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <832.445T1350T10614735optimus@canit.se> Julian Richardson skrev: >Hi, >This was from a private email between Joe and myself - but as he says, >there's plenty of disk / Unix experts on the list that might be able to >answer this one! >We were talking about the possibility of doing a raw backup of the failing >disk in my Tek system and restoring it onto another disk to get it to >work... If you don't trust a raw copy, why not just throw in your other (newer) disk on the SCSI bus, disklabel it, format it, partition it, and do a "copy -R" of the entire filesystem? Besides, it's not as though you'd actually destroy your old disk if you made a copy. Just try the dd route, and if it doesn't work, truy something else. You really haven't got anything to lose. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Kyosuke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson! Jag: Det heter du inte alls! From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 09:48:25 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <3A8A0A04.CC5F8E59@eoni.com> Message-ID: <574.445T1250T10084627optimus@canit.se> Jim Arnott skrev: >Looks like we'll see if we can do a BSD install. Biggest problem so >far seems to be the 'virgin' drive. Gotta find a floppy disk sized >formatter for it. >Still open to suggestion! If it's anything like the DECstations, there is an installation image in the distribution which may be written to the disk using "dd", "RAWRITE" or any other similar program. Otherwise, it might betboot as well. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 09:44:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <200102140216.SAA02190@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <630.445T350T10043951optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >OK, this is sort of on/off-topic, but..... >Out of curiousity, has anyone run E11 (PDP-11 Emulator) on Windows ME? Are >there any compatibility issues between Win98 and WinME? I just got my wife >a low-end Thinkpad and am wanting to be able to run E11 on it. Windows ME runs on a whole slew of processors, such as the ARM or Hitachi SH- 4, whereas Windows 9x only runs on Intels. I think binary compatibility is expecting too much. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Iggy tipsar: Vill du l?sa en PDF-fil, men saknar l?sare, skicka den till pdf2txt@adobe.com, du f?r den tillbaka som ren ASCII till din epostadress. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Feb 14 11:05:16 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Dejanews Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD17616E@exchange.softwright.co.uk> > Even better, they are going to be reinstating the dejaNews archives > back to 1995. yep, that is good. I've got a bunch of news postings from 93/94/95 that I lost local copies of, so hopefully I'll be able to get a few of the follow-ups to those back at least. > Now if someone would just find a way to incorporate the old Usenet on > CD archives and, perhaps, take donations of single articles that > people may have archived personally. well, they reckon their archive is about 1TB - I wonder how much space all the useful stuff would take up? Less than 100GB surely (I could probably manage to free up enough for that - not sure how I'd make it available to everyone else though) hopefully there'll be a way to hook up to site automatically and write a client-side app to pull stuff off the site... Jules -- From phil at ultimate.com Wed Feb 14 11:25:56 2001 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <200102141725.MAA03777@ultimate.com> > From: healyzh@aracnet.com > Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:45:20 -0800 (PST) > Probably pretty close to being on topic. You can run up to either Solaris > 2.6 or 7 on it. Max RAM is 64MB, or 96/128MB with special S-Bus and > piggyback cards (32MB each). Uses Narrow SCSI. I'd recommend checking out > OpenBSD or NetBSD for it. It's old and slow so a lightweight OS helps. Since this is a retro list, let's not forget Solaris 1 (aka SunOS 4). I'm typing this now on a Sun type 3, connected to an IPX running 4.1.4. But I'll confess, I'm willing to deal with having to tweak builds on occasion, since SunOS4 is hardly mainstream any more. -phil From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Feb 14 11:40:28 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <630.445T350T10043951optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > >OK, this is sort of on/off-topic, but..... > > >Out of curiousity, has anyone run E11 (PDP-11 Emulator) on Windows ME? Are > >there any compatibility issues between Win98 and WinME? I just got my wife > >a low-end Thinkpad and am wanting to be able to run E11 on it. > > Windows ME runs on a whole slew of processors, such as the ARM or Hitachi SH- > 4, whereas Windows 9x only runs on Intels. I think binary compatibility is > expecting too much. > I think you're confusing Windows Millenium Edition (ME) with Windows CE which is the version used in a number of PDA type devices. g. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Feb 14 11:53:25 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:39 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <630.445T350T10043951optimus@canit.se> References: <200102140216.SAA02190@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010214095045.029a5bb0@208.226.86.10> At 04:44 PM 2/14/01 +0100, you wrote: >Windows ME runs on a whole slew of processors, such as the ARM or Hitachi SH- >4, whereas Windows 9x only runs on Intels. I think binary compatibility is >expecting too much. Nope, you are confusing Windows "CE" with Windows "ME" (what a difference a letter makes), the "CE" aka "Compact Edition" runs on a variety of processors, the "ME" aks "Millenium Edition" runs only on x86 architectures. Then there is Windows "NT" which ran on x86, PowerPC, and Alpha, and "Windows 2K" which runs only on x86 again. Note you can buy all four of these operating systems from Microsoft today, confused yet? --Chuck From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Feb 14 11:58:19 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <69.11236cdb.27bc213b@aol.com> In a message dated 2/14/01 12:35:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, phil@ultimate.com writes: > > Since this is a retro list, let's not forget Solaris 1 (aka SunOS 4). > I'm typing this now on a Sun type 3, connected to an IPX running 4.1.4. > > But I'll confess, I'm willing to deal with having to tweak builds on > occasion, since SunOS4 is hardly mainstream any more. > > -phil > > I have a question that belongs on this list for sure.. Is it possible and legal to obtain a copy of an old version of SunOS or Solaris to run on these old machines? My personal opinion is that NetBSD or Linux would run better on them, but for historical interest it might be nice to have one running an old Solaris as well. -Linc. From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Feb 14 12:07:53 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102141725.MAA03777@ultimate.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214120753.0087c930@ubanproductions.com> The older SunOS system runs very well on this, but condider that if you need to use a "modern" hard drive, you will be limited to about 2GB (I think) if you use one of the older OS's. That is why I went to NetBSD, it has kept up with the latest hardware... --tom At 12:25 PM 2/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >> From: healyzh@aracnet.com >> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:45:20 -0800 (PST) > >> Probably pretty close to being on topic. You can run up to either Solaris >> 2.6 or 7 on it. Max RAM is 64MB, or 96/128MB with special S-Bus and >> piggyback cards (32MB each). Uses Narrow SCSI. I'd recommend checking out >> OpenBSD or NetBSD for it. It's old and slow so a lightweight OS helps. > >Since this is a retro list, let's not forget Solaris 1 (aka SunOS 4). >I'm typing this now on a Sun type 3, connected to an IPX running 4.1.4. > >But I'll confess, I'm willing to deal with having to tweak builds on >occasion, since SunOS4 is hardly mainstream any more. > >-phil > > From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Sun Feb 11 09:33:07 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: C64 question References: <20010208163324.15051.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c096b2$77b3efc0$0101010a@pentium2> Ethan Dicks wrote: > It was once said that of Commodore was selling sushi, they'd call it "cold, > raw, dead fish." But Marketing aside, there _were_ a bunch of stupid > engineering decisions, well documented by R.J. Mikal in his "Commodore > Deathbed Vigil" tape. On a related note, *Dave Haynie's* Deathbed Vigil can be found in MPEG format on the Amiga Forever v4 CD. In my mind, Apple made simliar mistakes and cancelled many more products than Commodore during the last 20 years. Fortunately, they had a stronger US foothold than the Big C. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Feb 14 12:18:03 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2 (LFessen106@aol.com) References: <69.11236cdb.27bc213b@aol.com> Message-ID: <14986.52187.584336.996514@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 14, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > I have a question that belongs on this list for sure.. Is it possible and > legal to obtain a copy of an old version of SunOS or Solaris to run on these > old machines? My personal opinion is that NetBSD or Linux would run better > on them, but for historical interest it might be nice to have one running an > old Solaris as well. Nope. There are too many of these "old" machines (some running older releases of either OS) still running in production at lots of installations. -Dave McGuire From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Feb 14 12:25:26 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: <20010214.122526.-627799.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:53:25 -0800 Chuck McManis writes: > Nope, you are confusing Windows "CE" with Windows "ME" (what a > difference a letter makes), the "CE" aka "Compact Edition" runs on a > variety of processors, the "ME" aks "Millenium Edition" runs only on x86 > architectures. Then there is Windows "NT" which ran on x86, PowerPC, > and Alpha, and "Windows 2K" which runs only on x86 again. Note you can > buy all four of these operating systems from Microsoft today, confused yet? Yeah, and you can get all four in one package. Just ask for: Windows CEMeNT 2000 SOrry guys, I just couldn't resist . . . -- Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From phil at ultimate.com Wed Feb 14 12:49:18 2001 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <200102141849.NAA04204@ultimate.com> > From: Tom Uban > > The older SunOS system runs very well on this, but condider that if you > need to use a "modern" hard drive, you will be limited to about 2GB (I think) > if you use one of the older OS's. That is why I went to NetBSD, it has kept > up with the latest hardware... There may be firmware limitations on the location of the root filesystem, depending on the SCSI commands used by the boot PROM. I think you're correct that (in stock SunOS4) PARTITIONS cannot exceed 2GB, but I'm happily runing a 4GB disk (largest partition is 1.6G), and I've seen 9GB disks on SunOS4 systems. You may not be able to do absolute seeks to the 'c' partition with disk larger than 2G, but that's never caused me any problems. I think there was also a "disksuite" add-on, to handle large disks more gracefully, but it's not needed. -phil From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Feb 14 12:51:46 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <69.11236cdb.27bc213b@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214125146.0087b5c0@ubanproductions.com> As I recall, every Sun box comes with an implicit right to use license for the Sun operating system. Getting a copy is another story, but you should be able to find someone who has one... --tom At 12:58 PM 2/14/01 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/14/01 12:35:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, >phil@ultimate.com writes: > >> >> Since this is a retro list, let's not forget Solaris 1 (aka SunOS 4). >> I'm typing this now on a Sun type 3, connected to an IPX running 4.1.4. >> >> But I'll confess, I'm willing to deal with having to tweak builds on >> occasion, since SunOS4 is hardly mainstream any more. >> >> -phil >> >> > >I have a question that belongs on this list for sure.. Is it possible and >legal to obtain a copy of an old version of SunOS or Solaris to run on these >old machines? My personal opinion is that NetBSD or Linux would run better >on them, but for historical interest it might be nice to have one running an >old Solaris as well. >-Linc. > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Feb 14 13:08:41 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: C64 question In-Reply-To: <000501c096b2$77b3efc0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <20010214190841.96536.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gareth Knight wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > But Marketing aside, there _were_ a bunch of stupid > > engineering decisions, well documented by R.J. Mikal in his "Commodore > > Deathbed Vigil" tape. > > On a related note, *Dave Haynie's* Deathbed Vigil can be found in MPEG > format on the Amiga Forever v4 CD. Whoops! Big mistake on my part. I've even _got_ the video. Talk about bits needing a refresh. Thanks for the correction. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Feb 14 13:13:18 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 References: <3.0.5.32.20010214125146.0087b5c0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3A8AD8CE.4060102@olf.com> > > >> I have a question that belongs on this list for sure.. Is it possible and >> legal to obtain a copy of an old version of SunOS or Solaris to run on these >> old machines? My personal opinion is that NetBSD or Linux would run better >> on them, but for historical interest it might be nice to have one running an >> old Solaris as well. >> -Linc. > You can pick you Free Solaris from sun at www.sun.com. It costs about $20 with shipping, etc. That is what I did to get Solaris 2.6 for the IPX and PC. SunOS4.1.4 is a different story..... Ram From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 13:21:31 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD17616E@exchange.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: >hopefully there'll be a way to hook up to site automatically and write a >client-side app to pull stuff off the site... As in something that would let me pull of all articles from say alt.sys.pdp11 ? Now that's something I'd like to be able to do. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 14 13:32:34 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <433.445T2700T2446537optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Feb 14, 1 04:04:54 am" Message-ID: <200102141932.LAA10220@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Probably pretty close to being on topic. You can run up to either Solaris > >2.6 or 7 on it. Max RAM is 64MB, or 96/128MB with special S-Bus and > >piggyback cards (32MB each). Uses Narrow SCSI. I'd recommend checking out > >OpenBSD or NetBSD for it. It's old and slow so a lightweight OS helps. > > Are Net and OpenBSD light-weight OSes? Holy smokes! OpenBSD, no. NetBSD, yes. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm in perpetual denial." ---------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Feb 14 13:33:54 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102141849.NAA04204@ultimate.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214133354.0087e5f0@ubanproductions.com> I think that not being able to access greater than 2GB makes it difficult to setup a large disk, even if you are keeping the individual partitions to less than 2GB. I don't know the exact details, but the version of SunOS that I had just wouldn't do it. Maybe there was a patch or update which would have fixed the problem as you describe. In my case, I wanted to use the IPX on a daily basis and be able to install all of the latest applications (apache, qpopper, etc.). This is why I went with NetBSD. I tried Linux, but it was dog slow on the sparc (see my previous post about this). If he doesn't have a real application for the box and doesn't require the latest greatest software, then one of the old SunOS releases should be fine. --tom At 01:49 PM 2/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >> From: Tom Uban >> >> The older SunOS system runs very well on this, but condider that if you >> need to use a "modern" hard drive, you will be limited to about 2GB (I think) >> if you use one of the older OS's. That is why I went to NetBSD, it has kept >> up with the latest hardware... > >There may be firmware limitations on the location of the root >filesystem, depending on the SCSI commands used by the boot PROM. > >I think you're correct that (in stock SunOS4) PARTITIONS cannot exceed >2GB, but I'm happily runing a 4GB disk (largest partition is 1.6G), >and I've seen 9GB disks on SunOS4 systems. You may not be able to do >absolute seeks to the 'c' partition with disk larger than 2G, but >that's never caused me any problems. I think there was also a >"disksuite" add-on, to handle large disks more gracefully, but it's >not needed. > >-phil > > From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Feb 14 13:35:24 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Dejanews References: Message-ID: <3A8ADDFC.8080006@olf.com> In the search window, just type: group:alt.sys.pdp11 Ram Zane H. Healy wrote: >> hopefully there'll be a way to hook up to site automatically and write a >> client-side app to pull stuff off the site... > > > As in something that would let me pull of all articles from say > alt.sys.pdp11 ? Now that's something I'd like to be able to do. > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Feb 14 13:50:18 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: LFessen106@aol.com "Re: Sun SPARCstation 2" (Feb 14, 12:58) References: <69.11236cdb.27bc213b@aol.com> Message-ID: <10102141950.ZM29433@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 14, 12:58, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > I have a question that belongs on this list for sure.. Is it possible and > legal to obtain a copy of an old version of SunOS or Solaris to run on these > old machines? My personal opinion is that NetBSD or Linux would run better > on them, but for historical interest it might be nice to have one running an > old Solaris as well. For a while, Sun had a webpage from which you could obtain Solaris 7 (or was it 6?) free, and last time I looked it was possible to obtain Solaris 8 similarly (but that won't run on the older architectures). I'm sure it's been mentioned here before; look in the list archives. I'd try asking on comp.sys.sun et al for a copy. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Feb 14 14:02:33 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010214133354.0087e5f0@ubanproductions.com> from Tom Uban at "Feb 14, 2001 01:33:54 pm" Message-ID: <200102142002.f1EK2XK18320@bg-tc-ppp1254.monmouth.com> > I think that not being able to access greater than 2GB makes it difficult > to setup a large disk, even if you are keeping the individual partitions > to less than 2GB. I don't know the exact details, but the version of SunOS > that I had just wouldn't do it. Maybe there was a patch or update which > would have fixed the problem as you describe. > > In my case, I wanted to use the IPX on a daily basis and be able to install > all of the latest applications (apache, qpopper, etc.). This is why I went > with NetBSD. I tried Linux, but it was dog slow on the sparc (see my previous > post about this). > > If he doesn't have a real application for the box and doesn't require the > latest greatest software, then one of the old SunOS releases should be fine. > > --tom If you get 64mb of memory on the IPX even Solaris 7 runs OK (if you don't expect too much of X-er-Open-Windows. I'd assume at 96mb it would be pretty good. I've only got 64mb on mine. Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Feb 14 14:03:45 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102141932.LAA10220@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Feb 14, 2001 11:32:34 am" Message-ID: <200102142003.f1EK3kj18336@bg-tc-ppp1254.monmouth.com> > > >Probably pretty close to being on topic. You can run up to either Solaris > > >2.6 or 7 on it. Max RAM is 64MB, or 96/128MB with special S-Bus and > > >piggyback cards (32MB each). Uses Narrow SCSI. I'd recommend checking out > > >OpenBSD or NetBSD for it. It's old and slow so a lightweight OS helps. > > > > Are Net and OpenBSD light-weight OSes? Holy smokes! > > OpenBSD, no. NetBSD, yes. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu What's the difference in the "light-weight" area. I tried both and found performance about the same with NetBSD 1.4.1 and Open 2.7. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 14:18:22 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: <3A8ADDFC.8080006@olf.com> References: Message-ID: >In the search window, just type: > >group:alt.sys.pdp11 > >Ram Thanks! That's not what I was talking about, BUT that's a HUGE help! I was trying to figure that out yesterday, and couldn't. I hope they get the interface more in line with DejaNews Classic, I've been using this for so long that this is painful (though I do like their highlighting). I'd been meaning pulling off all messages from a specific group off to my local hard drive. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Feb 14 14:02:30 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: Tom Uban's message of "Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:07:53 -0600" References: <3.0.5.32.20010214120753.0087c930@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200102142002.f1EK2Uh31056@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tom Uban wrote: > The older SunOS system runs very well on this, but condider that if you > need to use a "modern" hard drive, you will be limited to about 2GB (I think) > if you use one of the older OS's. That is why I went to NetBSD, it has kept > up with the latest hardware... Vague recollections: SunOS 4.1.1 can't handle disks larger than ~1GB. SunOS 4.1.4 can't handle filesystems larger than 2GB, but can put more than one of them on a larger disk. -Frank McConnell From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Feb 14 14:55:14 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Wed, Feb 14, 2001 at 12:18:22PM -0800 References: <3A8ADDFC.8080006@olf.com> Message-ID: <20010214155514.O27430@alcor.concordia.ca> On Wed, Feb 14, 2001 at 12:18:22PM -0800, Zane H. Healy (healyzh@aracnet.com) wrote: > >In the search window, just type: > > > >group:alt.sys.pdp11 > > > >Ram > > Thanks! That's not what I was talking about, BUT that's a HUGE help! I > was trying to figure that out yesterday, and couldn't. I hope they get the > interface more in line with DejaNews Classic, I've been using this for so > long that this is painful (though I do like their highlighting). You've seen the Advanced Search, right? http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From mcruse at acm.org Wed Feb 14 14:46:57 2001 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Data General MV8000/9300 References: <3.0.5.32.20010214133354.0087e5f0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3A8AEEC1.1010709@acm.org> Hi, I need a little with my DG Eclipse. It was completely dead to start with because it had a fried front end power supply. The one that hinges out at the back of the machine not the one in the card cage. Luckily my machine came with an expansion card cage with had an exact duplicate power supply. I don't really need the extra 50 or sixty serial ports in that expansion unit so I completely disconnected it and replaced the fried power supply board with the now spare one. When I turned the power on things came to life. Slowly, the message POWER UP TEST COMPLETE is printed on the console but just as that happens, the machine shuts it self down. I have tried powering up with all cards unplugged with the same results. It seems to be the repaired power supply unit dropping out as I can hear it's relays disengaging. I just don't know why. Initially the power, battery and run LED's are on. Then the power and run LED go off while the battery LED starts flashing slowly. The BBU box is not connected as I think this machine was hooked up to an external UPS in it's previous life. One good thing is that when I press the RST switch while the power is still on, I get an Scp-Cli/jp0 prompt and if I am quick I can run a command or two. So my machine is basically alive but only for 30 seconds at a time. I really want to get it going because it has three drives with AOS and Business Basic on it as well as a huge 9 track tape drive. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Mike From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 14 14:58:04 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102142003.f1EK3kj18336@bg-tc-ppp1254.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Feb 14, 1 03:03:45 pm" Message-ID: <200102142058.MAA10236@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > What's the difference in the "light-weight" area. I tried both and > found performance about the same with NetBSD 1.4.1 and Open 2.7. I mean size of the install. Kernel-performance-wise, they're about the same, since the newer releases of NetBSD are becoming closer and closer to OpenBSD by design (particularly to take advantage of the security in OBSD). Of course, this differs from arch to arch. Maybe there's little difference between the two on Sun as far as install size there too. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- R. L. Ash ------------- From mcruse at acm.org Wed Feb 14 15:06:57 2001 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: PDP 8 peripherals References: <3.0.5.32.20010214133354.0087e5f0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3A8AF371.6040308@acm.org> Hi all, I have managed to get my PDP 8/M up and running but I don't have any peripherals. So, here is my plea. Does anyone have or know of where I might buy or trade for any or all of an RX02 floppy system, Tape drive system or a hard drive for my 8M. I am into restoration so my stuff will never appear on ebay. Thanks, Mike From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 13:05:23 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1003.445T1150T12055219optimus@canit.se> Gene Buckle skrev: >> >OK, this is sort of on/off-topic, but..... >> >> >Out of curiousity, has anyone run E11 (PDP-11 Emulator) on Windows ME? >> >Are there any compatibility issues between Win98 and WinME? I just got my >> >wife a low-end Thinkpad and am wanting to be able to run E11 on it. >> >> Windows ME runs on a whole slew of processors, such as the ARM or Hitachi >> SH- >> 4, whereas Windows 9x only runs on Intels. I think binary compatibility is >> expecting too much. >> >I think you're confusing Windows Millenium Edition (ME) with Windows CE >which is the version used in a number of PDA type devices. Ah yes, I must have made the connection portable -> Windows ?E -> compatibility problems. Why would there be compatibility problems between ME and 98? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Georgie beundrade stor?gt sin pappa som med v?ldsamma slag gick l?s p? det stora tr?det. Han badade i svett, och den muskul?sa kroppen bl?nkte i solskenet. Hon ?lskade honom. Lady Georgie, TMS 1983 From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 15:31:30 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <3A8A0A04.CC5F8E59@eoni.com> from "Jim Arnott" at Feb 13, 2001 08:31:03 PM Message-ID: <200102142131.NAA30668@shell1.aracnet.com> > Thanks all. > > Looks like we'll see if we can do a BSD install. Biggest problem so > far seems to be the 'virgin' drive. Gotta find a floppy disk sized > formatter for it. > > Still open to suggestion! > > Jim I just thought of something that will make the install a lot easier if you've got an existing UNIX box, a CD-burner, and a CD-ROM that does 512-byte blocks. I used this to make a bootable CD-ROM for my SparcBook 3GS (I toasted the Solaris 2.5.1 that was on it by installing Sun's Y2K patches). I used the following proceedure on my Sparc 20/712 running Solaris 2.6 and then copied the resulting image over to my Mac and burned it to CD-R. Worked great once I figured out how to boot it. Beware, the OpenBSD utility for setting up your disk is a royal pain. If you don't have the hardware/software to do this, you can also make a boot floppy or dd miniroot28.fs (I think that's the right one) to a second HD. Zane Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc OpenBSD Bootable Sparc CD-ROM How-To Many thanks are owed to the authors of mksunbootcd and the NetBSD Bootable CD-ROM HOWTO. (http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/bootcd.html#sparcimage) Step 1. Create an ISO out of the files you wish to include on the CD. The first disc I made was 79MB and included just the base packages, ports.tar.gz and some readme files. There is plenty of room to add 150MB of sparc packages, source tar balls, etc. mkisofs -o ~/obsd28sparc.iso -T -a -l -J -r -L \ -V "OpenBSD2.8_sparc" /mnt/cdrom/2.8/sparc Check the man page for mkisofs to see what all the switches do. For me it was important to select a couple of options so the disc would show up properly under Win2k; translation tables (-T) for lower case file names and a volume ID (-V). In case you're using an OS that doesn't already have mkisofs, it can be retrieved here: ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix/cdrecord/mkisofs/ Step 2. Retrieve a bootable floppy image of OpenBSD. At the time of this writing I used ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/2.8/sparc/floppy28.fs. Step 3. Compile and install mksunbootcd. This tool will allow you to append a sun disklabel and OpenBSD boot image to the ISO. You can find mksunbootcd here: ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/misc/mksunbootcd/ Step 4. Create the final ISO. I used the following command: mksunbootcd obsd28sparc.iso floppy28.fs floppy28.fs floppy28.fs If you happen to have different boot images for sun4, sun4c, and sun4m architectures, you might use a command like this: mksunbootcd obsd28sparc.iso obsd-sun4.fs obsd-sun4c.fs obsd-sun4m.fs Be sure not to run this command more than once since it rewrites the ISO file. Once you have burned the ISO to a CD you should be able to run 'boot cdrom'. See the current INSTALL.sparc file for equivalent commands with different OpenBoot versions. Step 5. Contribute to the OpenBSD project. Every six months I try to buy at least one copy of the official CD-ROM and usually go crazy with t-shirt purchases. See http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html for more info. From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 14 15:29:55 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, John Ruschmeyer wrote: > Now if someone would just find a way to incorporate the old Usenet on > CD archives and, perhaps, take donations of single articles that > people may have archived personally. Anybody know where the old usenet CD archives (was it Walnut Creek?) are still available? Even bloody eBay doesn't seem to have any. BTW, check out Brian Jones' 1981-1982 archive: http://communication.ucsd.edu/A-News/index.html -- Doug From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 16:00:38 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: NeXTStep on Sparc (was: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2) In-Reply-To: <009b01c0969b$dc35e230$faea0191@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Feb 14, 2001 10:36:12 AM Message-ID: <200102142200.OAA31693@shell1.aracnet.com> > Yep, which I have, but it was not NeXTStep, it was OpenStep. It still > needs Solaris to run. It was just a window manager with the appropriate > OpenStep development environment, not the actual MACH-based OS. > I run OpenStep, CDE, Openwindows, Motif Window Manager on my > Solaris 2.6-based Sparc IPX... > > Ram Really? I'd thought it was the entire OS (BTW, I'm pretty sure NeXTStep 3.3 will also run on it). I'm curious, do you happen to know if a configureation like you're talking about will run on a dual processor Sparc 20? I'd wouldn't mind the ability to run the Lighthouse apps http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign on my Sparc 20, and OmniWeb would be cool also. I've got OPENSTEP 4.2, but have only run it on x86 (and unfortunatly that HD died). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 16:03:16 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102141725.MAA03777@ultimate.com> from "Phil Budne" at Feb 14, 2001 12:25:56 PM Message-ID: <200102142203.OAA31833@shell1.aracnet.com> > But I'll confess, I'm willing to deal with having to tweak builds on > occasion, since SunOS4 is hardly mainstream any more. > > -phil Strange, all our Auspex fileservers here are running a modified version of SunOS4, I'd consider it very mainsteam :^) (at least in our environment) Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 14 16:06:08 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010214095045.029a5bb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: > At 04:44 PM 2/14/01 +0100, you wrote: > >Windows ME runs on a whole slew of processors, such as the ARM or Hitachi SH- > >4, whereas Windows 9x only runs on Intels. I think binary compatibility is > >expecting too much. On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Nope, you are confusing Windows "CE" with Windows "ME" (what a difference a > letter makes), the "CE" aka "Compact Edition" runs on a variety of > processors, At one point, "CE" was "Consumer Electronics"! Did it change? There is a "new" variation of "Windows CE" called "Pocket PC". > the "ME" aka "Millenium Edition" runs only on x86 > architectures. and "ME" was a renaming of "98", which was a renaming of "95" BTW, "98" will REFUSE to install unless there is a math coprocessor! What possible reasons could there be for an OS to need floating point?????? > Then there is Windows "NT" which ran on x86, PowerPC, and > Alpha, and "Windows 2K" which runs only on x86 again. "Windows 2000" was a renaming of "NT 5". Did the non x86 versions of NT survive? > Note you can buy all > four of these operating systems from Microsoft today, confused yet? I can't understand ANY current MICROS~1 product names! Are they now created with a random word generator? What is the intent behind the name "Visual Studio" for their compiler suite? What is "Interdev"? Why is the Virus Transfer Protocol product named "Outlook"? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 16:08:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <3A8AD8CE.4060102@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Feb 14, 2001 02:13:18 PM Message-ID: <200102142208.OAA32136@shell1.aracnet.com> > You can pick you Free Solaris from sun at www.sun.com. It costs about > $20 with shipping, etc. That is what I did to get Solaris 2.6 for the > IPX and PC. SunOS4.1.4 is a different story..... > > Ram > I think it's Solaris 8 only now (it was Solaris 7 when I got it), which doesn't run on a Sparc 2. More importantly you either need to download it or spend $75 for the media kit, as far as I know, there isn't a way to get it for $20 anymore (but hey I might be wrong). Try eBay. I got my copy of Solaris 8 still sealed in the box for about $60, which beats getting it from Sun. Remember Solaris is now free for use on systems with up to 8 CPU's (I don't know if this includes older versions of the OS or only Solaris 8). Zane From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 14 16:08:49 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: PDP 8 peripherals In-Reply-To: <3A8AF371.6040308@acm.org> "from Mike Cruse at Feb 14, 2001 01:06:57 pm" Message-ID: <200102142208.QAA25236@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Well, I have a 8E and 8L, and probably a 8F and 8M on the way, and yet all I have for peripherals so far are RX02's... It takes a lot of searching, unfortunately. And occasionally a lot of waiting. By the way, to vaguely stay on topic, is there more than one type of RK05 cartridge (aside from sectoring). I bought a few 16 sector RK05 packs, that have some sort of drive alignment programs on them, which I'm assuming I can reuse as regular media. Will these work in all types of RK05? -Lawrence LeMay > Hi all, > > I have managed to get my PDP 8/M up and running but I don't have any > peripherals. So, here is my plea. Does anyone have or know of where I > might buy or trade for any or all of an RX02 floppy system, Tape drive > system or a hard drive for my 8M. > > I am into restoration so my stuff will never appear on ebay. > > Thanks, > > Mike > From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Feb 14 16:13:34 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: NeXTStep on Sparc (was: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2) In-Reply-To: <200102142200.OAA31693@shell1.aracnet.com>; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Wed, Feb 14, 2001 at 02:00:38PM -0800 References: <009b01c0969b$dc35e230$faea0191@olf.com> <200102142200.OAA31693@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010214171334.S27430@alcor.concordia.ca> On Wed, Feb 14, 2001 at 02:00:38PM -0800, healyzh@aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) wrote: > > Yep, which I have, but it was not NeXTStep, it was OpenStep. It still > > needs Solaris to run. It was just a window manager with the appropriate > > OpenStep development environment, not the actual MACH-based OS. > > I run OpenStep, CDE, Openwindows, Motif Window Manager on my > > Solaris 2.6-based Sparc IPX... > > > > Ram > > Really? I'd thought it was the entire OS (BTW, I'm pretty sure NeXTStep 3.3 > will also run on it). There's OpenStep for Solaris, and there's NEXTSTEP for Sparc. The latter is plain old NS3.3 and runs FAT NEXTSTEP binaries; the former is Solaris with X11 and all and runs SunOS binaries. OpenStep for Solaris requires an older version of Solaris (2.5.1 was too new when I tried it), but it's free -- http://www.peanuts.org/peanuts/OpenStep/implementation/solaris/ Note that that's "OpenStep for Solaris" (compare "OpenStep for Windows NT"), and not "OpenStep for Mach for Sparc" (compare "Openstep for Mach for Intel"). Cheers, -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 16:17:13 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102141932.LAA10220@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Feb 14, 2001 11:32:34 AM Message-ID: <200102142217.OAA32374@shell1.aracnet.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Are Net and OpenBSD light-weight OSes? Holy smokes! > > OpenBSD, no. NetBSD, yes. I'm curious why you say OpenBSD isn't light-weight. It'll run just fine on a system with as little as 16MB, and works great on something like 24MB (which I think is what my firewall has). I think I've run it in as little as 8MB on a Alpha based DEC Multia. Basically I'm just wondering if this is a different version of Light-Weight than I'm used to. (Of course I've run Linux and X-Windows on a 386sx/16 based laptop with Math Coprocessor and 4MB RAM, now that's a tight fit) Zane From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Feb 14 16:17:23 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <1003.445T1150T12055219optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Feb 14, 2001 08:05:23 pm" Message-ID: <200102142217.f1EMHOC18781@bg-tc-ppp1254.monmouth.com> > Ah yes, I must have made the connection portable -> Windows ?E -> > compatibility problems. > Why would there be compatibility problems between ME and 98? So Microsoft could get you to upgrade applications? --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 16:19:08 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102142002.f1EK2XK18320@bg-tc-ppp1254.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Feb 14, 2001 03:02:33 PM Message-ID: <200102142219.OAA32457@shell1.aracnet.com> > If you get 64mb of memory on the IPX even Solaris 7 runs OK (if you don't > expect too much of X-er-Open-Windows. > > I'd assume at 96mb it would be pretty good. > > I've only got 64mb on mine. > > Bill I know Solaris 2.6 runs pretty good on my Sparc 2 w/96MB, though Netscape 4.7x is a little sluggish. Running Netscape was painful when it only had 64MB. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 16:21:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: <20010214155514.O27430@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Rich Lafferty" at Feb 14, 2001 03:55:14 PM Message-ID: <200102142221.OAA32552@shell1.aracnet.com> > You've seen the Advanced Search, right? > > http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search > > -Rich Uh, heh, heh.... I have now :^) I think I was having network trouble when I went to try that, and didn't go back and try again. At least that's my story :^) Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 16:23:21 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102142058.MAA10236@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Feb 14, 2001 12:58:04 PM Message-ID: <200102142223.OAA32622@shell1.aracnet.com> > I mean size of the install. Kernel-performance-wise, they're about the same, > since the newer releases of NetBSD are becoming closer and closer to > OpenBSD by design (particularly to take advantage of the security in OBSD). > Of course, this differs from arch to arch. Maybe there's little difference > between the two on Sun as far as install size there too. OK, I've tried NetBSD 1.4.1 on Alpha and PMAX, and OpenBSD on Alpha and Sparc. I found it a lot easier to do an install of OpenBSD on a small disk than NetBSD. NetBSD seems to be a total nightmare in less than 1GB based on my experience with the PMAX port. Zane From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Feb 14 16:36:34 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: NeXTStep on Sparc (was: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2) References: <200102142200.OAA31693@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <020901c096d6$95da8df0$faea0191@olf.com> > Really? I'd thought it was the entire OS (BTW, I'm pretty sure NeXTStep 3.3 > will also run on it). I'm curious, do you happen to know if a > configureation like you're talking about will run on a dual processor > Sparc 20? I'd wouldn't mind the ability to run the Lighthouse apps > http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign on my Sparc 20, and OmniWeb > would be cool also. > > I've got OPENSTEP 4.2, but have only run it on x86 (and unfortunatly that HD > died). There were two (actually three) releases on the Sparc. One that was officially from NeXT running NeXTStep/OpenStep and one from Sun which used OpenStep. OpenStep on Sparc died like the dinosaurs. I downloaded the beta from Sun's website a while back and LightHouse I believe patched the official version and released an unofficial version of OpenStep for Sparc. I downloaded it from somewhere, but dont know where. It is pretty big though. Hold on, let me try to find the site.... Well here is the official link to Sun's openstep where I downloaded it: http://brahma.imag.fr/Multimedia/openstep/ Found it!! Here is OpenStep 1.1 unofficially released with a lot of bug fixes. You can find OpenStep 1.0 there as well: http://www.peanuts.org/peanuts/OpenStep/implementation/solaris/ Cheers, Ram From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 16:26:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <1003.445T1150T12055219optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Feb 14, 2001 08:05:23 PM Message-ID: <200102142226.OAA00332@shell1.aracnet.com> > Ah yes, I must have made the connection portable -> Windows ?E -> > compatibility problems. > Why would there be compatibility problems between ME and 98? I don't run Windows, I don't even use it (shoot my wife who isn't into computers is the Windows expert in our house). However, the laptop is primarily for her, but I want to run E11 on it (which looks to me to be a DOS app), hence the question. Zane From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 14 16:34:32 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Dejanews In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214163357.02b3cb10@pc> At 04:29 PM 2/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >Anybody know where the old usenet CD archives (was it Walnut Creek?) are >still available? Even bloody eBay doesn't seem to have any. I had a number of WC titles from 1991 or so, but not that one. >BTW, check out Brian Jones' 1981-1982 archive: > http://communication.ucsd.edu/A-News/index.html Too bad it's not searchable. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 14 16:36:35 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010214095045.029a5bb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214163502.01fdb9f0@pc> At 02:06 PM 2/14/01 -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >At one point, "CE" was "Consumer Electronics"! Did it change? Yes, I think they started denying it stood for anything at all. >BTW, "98" will REFUSE to install unless there is a math coprocessor! >What possible reasons could there be for an OS to need floating >point?????? An OS or an OS that comes with a slew of applications? - John From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Feb 14 16:38:22 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Data General MV8000/9300 References: <3.0.5.32.20010214133354.0087e5f0@ubanproductions.com> <3A8AEEC1.1010709@acm.org> Message-ID: <004501c096d6$d8e30be0$1800a8c0@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Cruse" To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Data General MV8000/9300 > I need a little with my DG Eclipse. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best place (apart from here) is probably comp.os.aos. Doesn't carry a lot of traffic but there are still some DG and AOS types hanging about in there. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Feb 14 17:01:37 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: PDP 8 peripherals In-Reply-To: <200102142208.QAA25236@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <3A8AF371.6040308@acm.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214170137.007b8100@ubanproductions.com> Yikes! If they are true DEC alignment packs, you should consider finding people who will trade you regular packs for them. Please do not use them for regular use if they are alignment packs! As was mentioned in an earlier post, the PDP11 has 16 sectors and the PDP8 has 12 sectors (did I get that right?). Since they are hard sectored, they cannot be interchanged. As I recall, the same pack is used in an RK05F, to get double density. They achieved this by not letting you remove the pack, so they could get away with twice the density (5MB), due to the pack not losing track alignment upon removal/insertion. There were many makers of RK05 like drives, all of which used the same packs (as far as I know). --tom At 04:08 PM 2/14/01 -0600, you wrote: >Well, I have a 8E and 8L, and probably a 8F and 8M on the way, and yet >all I have for peripherals so far are RX02's... It takes a lot of >searching, unfortunately. And occasionally a lot of waiting. > >By the way, to vaguely stay on topic, is there more than one type of >RK05 cartridge (aside from sectoring). I bought a few 16 sector RK05 >packs, that have some sort of drive alignment programs on them, which >I'm assuming I can reuse as regular media. Will these work in all >types of RK05? > >-Lawrence LeMay > >> Hi all, >> >> I have managed to get my PDP 8/M up and running but I don't have any >> peripherals. So, here is my plea. Does anyone have or know of where I >> might buy or trade for any or all of an RX02 floppy system, Tape drive >> system or a hard drive for my 8M. >> >> I am into restoration so my stuff will never appear on ebay. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mike >> > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 14 17:49:38 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214163502.01fdb9f0@pc> Message-ID: > >BTW, "98" will REFUSE to install unless there is a math coprocessor! > >What possible reasons could there be for an OS to need floating > >point?????? On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > An OS or an OS that comes with a slew of applications? A friend told me off-list that when copying a file, there is a graphic icon of each bit being moved. He suggested that the floating point was required for the OS due to some MICROS~1 OS programmer being unable to compute the parabolic trajectory of the bits without using floats. BTW, 95 will install on the same machine without the FPU (486SX). Which apps, etc. are different? Or did MICROS~1 simply do the FPU requirement to reduce the number of performance complaints about their apps? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 18:04:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <200102142226.OAA00332@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <880.446T600T644177optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> Ah yes, I must have made the connection portable -> Windows ?E -> >> compatibility problems. >> Why would there be compatibility problems between ME and 98? >I don't run Windows, I don't even use it (shoot my wife who isn't into >computers is the Windows expert in our house). However, the laptop is >primarily for her, but I want to run E11 on it (which looks to me to be a >DOS app), hence the question. I see. In that case, I'm no Windows expert either. But since I "know so much about computers", I get all kinds of silly questions about Windows things. I wonder if this makes me incompetent, since I only know a lot of strange systems which people haven't heard of it or "isn't that dead?". =/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. We have the most thorough test guy in the world... I showed him this program and he asked, 'but Rob, what if time runs backward?' From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 18:08:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <787.446T2250T685455optimus@canit.se> XenoSoft skrev: >"Windows 2000" was a renaming of "NT 5". >Did the non x86 versions of NT survive? Alpha seems to be trodding along, but MIPS and PPC versions have been dead for a long while. >I can't understand ANY current MICROS~1 product names! >Are they now created with a random word generator? >What is the intent behind the name "Visual Studio" for their compiler >suite? >What is "Interdev"? >Why is the Virus Transfer Protocol product named "Outlook"? >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com Congratulations, Grumpy, you've just made it into my collection of taglines! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language. I use it occasionally... :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 18:15:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102142217.OAA32374@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1150.446T2300T755933optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> > Are Net and OpenBSD light-weight OSes? Holy smokes! >> >> OpenBSD, no. NetBSD, yes. >I'm curious why you say OpenBSD isn't light-weight. It'll run just fine on >a system with as little as 16MB, and works great on something like 24MB >(which I think is what my firewall has). I think I've run it in as little >as 8MB on a Alpha based DEC Multia. Are you saying 16 MB is little? And I thoiught the over 4 MB demands of NetBSD was pushing it... >Basically I'm just wondering if this is a different version of Light-Weight >than I'm used to. (Of course I've run Linux and X-Windows on a 386sx/16 >based laptop with Math Coprocessor and 4MB RAM, now that's a tight fit) Linux is a big heap of bloat. It seems every UNIX is, too. My definition of light-weight is floppy-based, sub-4 MB. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Php/fi: The syntax does a very good job on combining the drawbacks of C with the disadvantages of Perl, in general resulting in a completely unreadable sequence of seemingly random characters. Therefor it became quite popular among Unix-fossils. -- README for the HTML preprocessor "hsc" From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 18:20:10 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <200102142223.OAA32622@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1256.446T500T804557optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> I mean size of the install. Kernel-performance-wise, they're about the >> same, since the newer releases of NetBSD are becoming closer and closer to >> OpenBSD by design (particularly to take advantage of the security in OBSD). >> Of course, this differs from arch to arch. Maybe there's little difference >> between the two on Sun as far as install size there too. >OK, I've tried NetBSD 1.4.1 on Alpha and PMAX, and OpenBSD on Alpha and >Sparc. I found it a lot easier to do an install of OpenBSD on a small disk >than NetBSD. NetBSD seems to be a total nightmare in less than 1GB based on >my experience with the PMAX port. I had no problems with NetBSD/pmax on my 400 MB drive. I also run NetBSD/i386 on a 6MB system with two drives adding to 300 MB, one 100-megger for root and one 200 MB /usr. It certainly was a tight fit on the sole 100-megger. OTOH, I've never bothered with X on any of my systems. Besides, the NetBSD sysinst is a lot nice for setting the disk up than OpenBSD's installation tools, which are only slightly more friendly than disklabel, BSD fdisk et al. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Alle meine Noten bringen mich nicht aus den N?ten, und ich schreibe noten ?berhaupt nur aus N?ten. --- Ludwig van Beethoven From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 14 18:02:25 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:40 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <200102142217.f1EMHOC18781@bg-tc-ppp1254.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <568.446T1250T624603optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> Ah yes, I must have made the connection portable -> Windows ?E -> >> compatibility problems. >> Why would there be compatibility problems between ME and 98? >So Microsoft could get you to upgrade applications? I can't see why that would lie in Microsoft's interest. Especially since they may just as well fool users to buy the same old product once again. Seems like someone's been bitten by MS FUD. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Es gibt zweierlei M?dchen: die einen, die Pullover stricken, und die anderen, die sie ausf?llen. --- Daliah Lavi From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Feb 14 18:30:31 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: NeXTStep on Sparc (was: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2) In-Reply-To: <200102142200.OAA31693@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200102142200.OAA31693@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Really? I'd thought it was the entire OS (BTW, I'm pretty sure NeXTStep 3.3 >will also run on it). I'm curious, do you happen to know if a >configureation like you're talking about will run on a dual processor >Sparc 20? I'd wouldn't mind the ability to run the Lighthouse apps >http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign on my Sparc 20, and OmniWeb >would be cool also. I know that NeXTStep ran on processors other than x86 and the NeXT hardware but unfortunately the Academic Bundle of 3.3, which is what I have, only included the system for those two, plus various drivers for PC-type hardware. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Feb 14 18:38:01 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <200102142217.f1EMHOC18781@bg-tc-ppp1254.monmouth.com> References: <200102142217.f1EMHOC18781@bg-tc-ppp1254.monmouth.com> Message-ID: > > Ah yes, I must have made the connection portable -> Windows ?E -> >> compatibility problems. >> Why would there be compatibility problems between ME and 98? > >So Microsoft could get you to upgrade applications? A lot of things broke going between '95/98 and NT and now we're finding problems testing stuff under 2000 as well. Thankfully we only have a handful of 2000 machines. Oh yes, and now MS has 'fixed' the Mac version of Outlook so that it is 'compatible' with the viruses for the Windows version! Needless to say, I'm the only one in the building running the Outlook 2001 Beta and that's just for testing purposes. BTW, we had an interesting thing happen today. Everyone went into work this morning to find that the MS Exchange server had locked everyone out with an 'out of license' error message. We manually went through and checked the licenses in use to find that there were people that had left nearly two years ago that the server software still saw as vailid even though thier accounts and all had been removed. Needless to say, we quickly deleted these bogus licenses and got things back running again. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 14 18:28:15 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: <008e01c096e8$0efa2ef0$49769a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >Windows ME runs on a whole slew of processors, such as the ARM or Hitachi SH- >4, whereas Windows 9x only runs on Intels. I think binary compatibility is >expecting too much. Your confusing ME with CE. ME is the same kernal as win95/win98/win98sr2. Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 19:12:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <880.446T600T644177optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Feb 15, 2001 01:04:12 AM Message-ID: <200102150112.RAA05606@shell1.aracnet.com> > I see. In that case, I'm no Windows expert either. But since I "know so much > about computers", I get all kinds of silly questions about Windows things. I > wonder if this makes me incompetent, since I only know a lot of strange > systems which people haven't heard of it or "isn't that dead?". =/ It doesn't make you incompetent, it gives you an easy out when all your relatives want your help with their computer problems! When I got married it quickly became apparent it was in my best interest not to know Windows! Zane From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 14 20:04:46 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: <00b401c096f4$b58e4380$49769a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > > A lot of things broke going between '95/98 and NT and now No surprize as NT is very different model and kernel from W9x. Then again the only stuff that I've found that broke is apps that wanted to twiddle IO directly. Thats a NoNo for a protected mode kernel. >we're finding problems testing stuff under 2000 as well. Thankfully >we only have a handful of 2000 machines. Oh yes, and now MS has I havent played with W2000 but I"ve heard its ok save for games run lousy. >'fixed' the Mac version of Outlook so that it is 'compatible' with >the viruses for the Windows version! Needless to say, I'm the only >one in the building running the Outlook 2001 Beta and that's just for >testing purposes. Outlook in all it's forms along with IE4.+ are breeding media for virus. Someone once asked me what Outlook was and I said, development shell for ill behaved apps. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 14 20:09:49 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <00b501c096f4$b7804f80$49769a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >Linux is a big heap of bloat. It seems every UNIX is, too. >My definition of light-weight is floppy-based, sub-4 MB. For PCs that leaves a few things like BeOS, Minix, DOS, ConcurrentDOS, CCPM and not much else. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 14 19:58:23 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: <00b301c096f4$b22723b0$49769a8d@ajp166> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) >A friend told me off-list that when copying a file, there is a graphic >icon of each bit being moved. He suggested that the floating point was That explains whay it's so slow. >BTW, 95 will install on the same machine without the FPU (486SX). W95 will run on 386sx/16... I've done it. W98 can be faked on to a non FPU cpu but it's not pretty. >Which apps, etc. are different? Or did MICROS~1 simply do the FPU >requirement to reduce the number of performance complaints about their >apps? Beats me, I'm running it(both 98 and ME) at work as an upgrade from w95, all the stuff we used to run still does and Autocad2000 was happy. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 14 21:21:35 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: FW: Tek XD88 (disk copying / sectors etc) In-Reply-To: <832.445T1350T10614735optimus@canit.se> References: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176162@exchange.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010214222135.3caf6df8@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:41 PM 2/14/01 +0100, Iggy wrote: >Julian Richardson skrev: > >>Hi, > >>This was from a private email between Joe and myself - but as he says, >>there's plenty of disk / Unix experts on the list that might be able to >>answer this one! > >>We were talking about the possibility of doing a raw backup of the failing >>disk in my Tek system and restoring it onto another disk to get it to >>work... > >If you don't trust a raw copy, why not just throw in your other (newer) disk >on the SCSI bus, disklabel it, format it, partition it, and do a "copy -R" of >the entire filesystem? > >Besides, it's not as though you'd actually destroy your old disk if you made a >copy. Just try the dd route, and if it doesn't work, truy something else. You >really haven't got anything to lose. > That should work EXCEPT that he can no longer boot the machine bue to the failed disk drive. He needs to mount the drive in another machine and duplicate it there. However, it's very unlikely that he'll be able to find a machine that can read the old drive and correctly interpret the data. Therefore, he needs to find a way to just read it as raw data and make an EXACT copy of it on the new drive. The copy will have to be exact since it will include the i-node tables and all the other things that make up a Unix file system. That's why I suggested one of the disk duplicating programs like Ghost. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 14 20:41:02 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <00b301c096f4$b22723b0$49769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: > >A friend told me off-list that when copying a file, there is a graphic > >icon of each bit being moved. He suggested that the floating point was On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, ajp166 wrote: > That explains why it's so slow. He was [presumably] exaggerating the use of the silly icon. Nevertheless, why unnecessarily slow down routine operations? > W95 will run on 386sx/16... I've done it. I've been meaning to play with that. How much RAM do you need? Was it as slow as expected? > >BTW, 95 will install on the same machine without the FPU (486SX). > W98 can be faked on to a non > FPU > cpu but it's not pretty. An associate (business tenant) wanted to use "HyperTerminal" for logging data from some lab equipment onto a 486 Compaq. When 98 REFUSED to install, I installed 95 without any problems. I wasn't strongly motivated to try anything serious to get 98 onto it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Feb 14 20:43:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <00b401c096f4$b58e4380$49769a8d@ajp166> References: <00b401c096f4$b58e4380$49769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >No surprize as NT is very different model and kernel from W9x. >Then again the only stuff that I've found that broke is apps >that wanted to twiddle IO directly. Thats a NoNo for a protected >mode kernel. We have various software, such as teleprompters and similar TV-studio related items, that we have to keep W95/98 machines for as they absolutely will not work under NT. Another big one I've found are database applications based on Foxbase under DOS. Nothing special as far as I/O there, but they throw a fit when run under NT while custom databases I've coded under PowerBasic run fine and PowerBasic hasn't been updated in 10-11 years. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 14 20:52:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <00b501c096f4$b7804f80$49769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Feb 14, 2001 09:09:49 PM Message-ID: <200102150252.SAA08299@shell1.aracnet.com> > >Linux is a big heap of bloat. It seems every UNIX is, too. > >My definition of light-weight is floppy-based, sub-4 MB. > > For PCs that leaves a few things like BeOS, Minix, DOS, > ConcurrentDOS, CCPM and not much else. I think you're thinking QNX and not BeOS (BeOS requires at least 32MB and 200MB disk space). I know QNX can be squeezed down to that (or at least could at one point, not sure if it still will fit on a floppy). Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Feb 14 20:52:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <00b501c096f4$b7804f80$49769a8d@ajp166> References: <00b501c096f4$b7804f80$49769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: > >Linux is a big heap of bloat. It seems every UNIX is, too. >>My definition of light-weight is floppy-based, sub-4 MB. > >For PCs that leaves a few things like BeOS, Minix, DOS, >ConcurrentDOS, CCPM and not much else. BeOS floppy based? The versions I've seen had larger requirements than floppies and 4MB RAM. The mention of ConcurrentDOS and Concurrent CP/M bring to mind a switch we made 13-14 years ago with a trouble-call tracking system we were running. It was based on a CP/M machine with 8" floppies and a hard disk, though I no longer recall who made it. Anyway, the database was quickly outgrowing the capacity of this system so it was contracted out to come up with something else. What happened was that we installed network cards in our Zenith 248's and connected them toa server that was based on a multiuser variant of DOS...if I recall correctly, it was called MOS. The thing crashed at every little thing and the bugs never were worked out of it while I worked there. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Feb 14 16:09:29 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: References: <00b301c096f4$b22723b0$49769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20010215031057.CUSZ11345.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:41:02 -0800 (PST) > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Re: E11 / Windows ME question > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Hi, > > W95 will run on 386sx/16... I've done it. > I've been meaning to play with that. How much RAM do you need? > Was it as slow as expected? Slooow as frozen honey in winter on that bastard 386sx 16. just slow even on 386dx 33 w/ 256K cache but no horsepower at all. Grind grind grind finally done. Wasn't the HD either bec ram was 16MB in 16 simms. :-) I did this same ram size w/ a old SDRAM stick in my PII 350 few times w/ new 15GB WD protege and win98 custom install, quick as u can see even can burn cdrs at 2x, nothing else. Things gets ugly when using ram-hogging programs. :-O > > >BTW, 95 will install on the same machine without the FPU (486SX). > > W98 can be faked on to a non > > FPU > > cpu but it's not pretty. > An associate (business tenant) wanted to use "HyperTerminal" for logging > data from some lab equipment onto a 486 Compaq. When 98 REFUSED to > install, I installed 95 without any problems. I wasn't strongly motivated > to try anything serious to get 98 onto it. Do this forcing unwilling w98 install onto crippled 486 boxens. setup /nm Then select radio button besides that minimum install. Disable floppy check, use treawkUI and system tools to configure. Make sure power management polling is off. This sometimes causes pauses in moving image programs like DVD, games etc. But do mind that box has more than 32MB and quick hd, minimum items in that tray for christ's sakes! After that, great for basic uses like this, for teaching network lessons, telnet, wp, email and spreadsheet work providing that s/w is old and non-ms. FYI: intel's 486sx2 does exist. Seen few with my eyes and touched them. Cheers, Wizard From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 14 21:11:51 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214163502.01fdb9f0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214192925.01fdb9f0@pc> At 03:49 PM 2/14/01 -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >A friend told me off-list that when copying a file, there is a graphic >icon of each bit being moved. He suggested that the floating point was >required for the OS due to some MICROS~1 OS programmer being unable to >compute the parabolic trajectory of the bits without using floats. >BTW, 95 will install on the same machine without the FPU (486SX). >Which apps, etc. are different? Or did MICROS~1 simply do the FPU >requirement to reduce the number of performance complaints about their >apps? You mean to tell me that you've never seen or used contemporary post-95 Windows, but you feel comfortable criticizing it? Yes, there's a lame animation when copying files. I can tell you a number of things wrong with *just that animation* - such as that it's not actually an accurate depiction of anything. It doesn't represent bits, bytes, blocks or any actual percentage of completion in any consistent fashion (between apps) as far as I can tell, and doesn't adequately represent errors. I highly doubt the code to do the arc uses floats. There are only a small number of steps in the animation. I would guess the tweens are hard-coded. As for the FPU, if they raised the bar for a minimum processor to an Intel level that includes an FPU, then they no longer need to compile code that can either use a software floating-point library or the hardware FPU. I was looking over the Windows 2000 requirements today - they only demand a Pentium 133 as the minimum... and that was the "recommended" level of system for Windows NT 3.x five-six years ago, as I recall. - John From jrice at texoma.net Wed Feb 14 21:25:36 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: NeXTStep on Sparc (was: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2) References: <200102142200.OAA31693@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3A8B4C30.F46D888D@texoma.net> My free Y2K update from NS3.2 to NS3.3 for black hardware, included a set of boot disks and CD's for PA-RISC and Sparc as well as the ones for 68K and intel. For a while in '99, all you had to do was call Apple with the serial number of your black cpu and they would overnight you a complete set of NeXTStep Developer 3.3. James Jeff Hellige wrote: > > >Really? I'd thought it was the entire OS (BTW, I'm pretty sure NeXTStep 3.3 > >will also run on it). I'm curious, do you happen to know if a > >configureation like you're talking about will run on a dual processor > >Sparc 20? I'd wouldn't mind the ability to run the Lighthouse apps > >http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign on my Sparc 20, and OmniWeb > >would be cool also. > > I know that NeXTStep ran on processors other than x86 and the > NeXT hardware but unfortunately the Academic Bundle of 3.3, which is > what I have, only included the system for those two, plus various > drivers for PC-type hardware. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -- ICQ 2286850 Home Page http://home.texoma.net/~jrice Classic Comp Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp.html All pages under construction! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 14 21:50:40 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <00d601c09703$79c25990$49769a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige >>For PCs that leaves a few things like BeOS, Minix, DOS, >>ConcurrentDOS, CCPM and not much else. > > BeOS floppy based? The versions I've seen had larger >requirements than floppies and 4MB RAM. The mention of ConcurrentDOS I didn't mean to imply they were floppy based only smaller footprint on disk and ram. I've run ConcurrentDOS-386 in 4mb as a multiuser box save for some of the programs (not the dos) wanted large tracts of ram. Minix can be run from floppy, or the full package fit in some 40mb and on a 386 with 4mb it's pretty interesting. However it's a research non-GUI OS so things like networking are not as pretty. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 14 21:45:17 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: <00d501c09703$794fc1a0$49769a8d@ajp166> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) >Nevertheless, why unnecessarily slow down routine operations? It's code bloat, artifact of oject oriented programming. >> W95 will run on 386sx/16... I've done it. >I've been meaning to play with that. How much RAM do you need? The minimum is 4mb but 8 is about the minimum useful. I have a printserver (w95, 120mb disk and 486dx/33) that is able as minimum as can be useful. >Was it as slow as expected? It was slow but, If anything it was faster than I'd have expected. >An associate (business tenant) wanted to use "HyperTerminal" for logging >data from some lab equipment onto a 486 Compaq. When 98 REFUSED to >install, I installed 95 without any problems. I wasn't strongly motivated >to try anything serious to get 98 onto it. Actually there is 98lite {downloadable} which is a program that does a scripted install of W98 plus a few things from W95. the result can be a very small footprint and with some of the msisms (IE and outlook express crap) omitted fairly fast. W9x is a useable OS, so long as you acknowledge that it's like dos in it's lack of protections for the filesystem or the kernel. Works ok with well behaved programs, stinks otherwise. Also it likes ram 16mb for running stuff like netscape or IE and 32mb isn't bad. My $.0002 is that NT3.51 sp4 or NT4 SP4 is a better OS than W9x. I dont think Linux is better only faster evolving. Of all the PC unix clones FreeBSD seems the most solid and least bloated at least as a server. Allison > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 14 21:52:51 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <00d701c09703$7a508fd0$49769a8d@ajp166> >I think you're thinking QNX and not BeOS (BeOS requires at least 32MB and >200MB disk space). I know QNX can be squeezed down to that (or at least >could at one point, not sure if it still will fit on a floppy). Thats it. QNX even has a demo with a browser that fits on floppy. There is also the linux kernal project, I have the LRP (router) on a single floppy. Though for smallness there is CPM-86 and DOS. Allison From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 14 20:49:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214192925.01fdb9f0@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > You mean to tell me that you've never seen or used contemporary > post-95 Windows, but you feel comfortable criticizing it? Yes, Does anyone really NEED to use MS products to know that they suck? Please... Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Feb 14 22:06:57 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: <00dc01c09705$06f69d70$49769a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > We have various software, such as teleprompters and similar >TV-studio related items, that we have to keep W95/98 machines for as >they absolutely will not work under NT. Another big one I've found I have very few things that I can say didnt' run under NT4, and they didnt run under w95 either. The best example of that is Paradox4.5/dos! The only hicup that has is print spooling which works poorly under both NT and W9x. Gcadd6.1/dos, Microcadd and Quickbasic4.5/dos, work fine. Biggest problem with old dos and W3.1x programs is the installs dont always work quite right. Other than that I run dos and W9x programs under NT4/sp4 using NTFS and FAT partitions with little to no difficulty. >are database applications based on Foxbase under DOS. Nothing >special as far as I/O there, but they throw a fit when run under NT >while custom databases I've coded under PowerBasic run fine and >PowerBasic hasn't been updated in 10-11 years. When running dos under NT it's not a bad thing to setup paths and PIFs as well as the NT dos emulation box. I may add that programs that are locked to 8.3 (most dos and w3.1 stuff) will get real upset with long filenames and directories take care. Also there are a few that dont seem to like NTFS or worse HPFS{there are three choices, FAT16, NTFS and HPFS}. Running NT3.51 or NT4 below SP4 is not good either. Allison From claudew at videotron.ca Wed Feb 14 22:53:59 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Everybody talking about SUNs - I never had one...I never tried one...who wil find/trade me one? Message-ID: <00b801c0970b$4f67a1c0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi Suns, suns, suns...I never had one, I never tried one. Not too common around here in Quebec. Seem plentyfull in the US.... I would be willing to trade for one...something not too old I can still play around with... I would rather trade for one because this could help me with my space problem...and not make it worst... I enjoy trading, if you have seen my posts before, I never ask for money for stuff I offer...I give it away or trade...my personnal policy... I have a ton of stuff...mostly micros and periphs 197x-198x early 1990s but lots of other stuff...ask... Dont suggest ebay....I dont use ebay to buy or sell...another personnal "policy"... Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010214/63018fd1/attachment.html From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Feb 14 23:14:56 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Tosh 420CDT Thanx Message-ID: A very-much-appreciated "Thank You!" to all the list members who reponded to my 'fried laptop' post a while back. I have located the docs, found the correct SMPSU voltage (15VDC/30W) and found a source for the PSU, the Mobo, and batteries. Also I found a 10GB drive that may fit it. 1.3GB is Just Too Small... whodathunkit???? Anywway, thanks again, even though the machine ain't quite 10 yet... Cheerz John From spc at conman.org Wed Feb 14 23:32:50 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <1150.446T2300T755933optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Feb 15, 2001 01:15:46 AM Message-ID: <200102150532.AAA17267@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Iggy Drougge once stated: > > >Basically I'm just wondering if this is a different version of Light-Weight > >than I'm used to. (Of course I've run Linux and X-Windows on a 386sx/16 > >based laptop with Math Coprocessor and 4MB RAM, now that's a tight fit) > > Linux is a big heap of bloat. It seems every UNIX is, too. > My definition of light-weight is floppy-based, sub-4 MB. I recently (within the past year) installed Linux (a bastardized RedHat 5.2 to be precise) on a laptop with almost 4M of RAM and 120M harddrive. It's a bit sluggish but for what I use it for, it's tollerable. And yes, installing it was quite an adventure, requiring me to recompile the Linux kernel on my base system. -spc (Although I'm not happy with the recent directions Linux is taking) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 15 01:04:13 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214192925.01fdb9f0@pc> Message-ID: > At 03:49 PM 2/14/01 -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >A friend told me off-list that when copying a file, there is a graphic > >icon of each bit being moved. He suggested that the floating point was > >required for the OS due to some MICROS~1 OS programmer being unable to > >compute the parabolic trajectory of the bits without using floats. > >BTW, 95 will install on the same machine without the FPU (486SX). > >Which apps, etc. are different? Or did MICROS~1 simply do the FPU > >requirement to reduce the number of performance complaints about their > >apps? On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > You mean to tell me that you've never seen or used contemporary > post-95 Windows, but you feel comfortable criticizing it? 1) My friend (who has a small but nice collection of Ohio Scientific, Northstar, Osborne, etc.) likes to bash Windows, and made the remark NOT to let me know about the existence of the graphic, but to [JOKINGLY] identify that graphic as being the FPU needy ap. I do use a lot of Windoze machines, and am familiar with it. 2) Does this mean that it would be inappropriate for me to criticize a Yugo if I don't own one? Or that I have to own a Ferrari to be able to say that it is NO GOOD for transporting minicomputers? Actually, I generally agree with your point - Ralph Nader does not have enough experience wrenching, driving, nor owning cars to have appropriate standing to criticize ANY of them, even VW or Corvair. > Yes, > there's a lame animation when copying files. I can tell you a > number of things wrong with *just that animation* - such as > that it's not actually an accurate depiction of anything. > It doesn't represent bits, bytes, blocks or any actual percentage > of completion in any consistent fashion (between apps) > as far as I can tell, and doesn't adequately represent errors. > I highly doubt the code to do the arc uses floats. There are > only a small number of steps in the animation. I would guess > the tweens are hard-coded. 3) Once again, we were JOKING about that animation as: a) producing animation for every bit b) calculating positions for the animation c) using float for the calculations d) being THE reason why 98 "needs" a FPU. all exaggerations, and presumably NOT valid. > As for the FPU, if they raised the bar for a minimum > processor to an Intel level that includes an FPU, then they > no longer need to compile code that can either use a software > floating-point library or the hardware FPU. I was looking > over the Windows 2000 requirements today - they only demand > a Pentium 133 as the minimum... and that was the "recommended" > level of system for Windows NT 3.x five-six years ago, as I recall. That still does not address why an OPERATING SYSTEM would EVER need to "compile code" that uses float! Certainly many aps might need float. But what POSSIBLE legitimate reason would there ever be for an OS to need or use floating point? Can anyone name any variable in an OS that should be float? Or are you actually saying that the FPU requirement is NOT for the OS at all, but that the OS is doing that for the sake of some aps? If I don't care about the speed, why would I need to have 133 for 2000? Does it still use "i386" as it's directory on the CD? Any reason why I couldn't create a glacially slow machine running it on a 386SX? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Feb 15 01:55:46 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 References: <00d701c09703$7a508fd0$49769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A8B8B82.3F5A3DC3@gorge.net> QNX is also available free, including a windowing system, networking and a development environment. ( for non commercial users ) Jim Davis. ajp166 wrote: > > >I think you're thinking QNX and not BeOS (BeOS requires at least 32MB > and > >200MB disk space). I know QNX can be squeezed down to that (or at least > >could at one point, not sure if it still will fit on a floppy). > > Thats it. QNX even has a demo with a browser that fits on floppy. > There is also the linux kernal project, I have the LRP (router) on > a single floppy. Though for smallness there is CPM-86 and DOS. > > Allison From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Feb 15 07:32:59 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214192925.01fdb9f0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010215072922.02ac4100@pc> At 06:49 PM 2/14/01 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > >> You mean to tell me that you've never seen or used contemporary >> post-95 Windows, but you feel comfortable criticizing it? Yes, > >Does anyone really NEED to use MS products to know that they suck? >Please... OK, the next time you reprimand someone for not knowing what they're talking about, I'll just state that you don't really need to use or understand something in order to say it "sucks". - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Feb 15 07:49:34 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010214192925.01fdb9f0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010215073429.02b6a520@pc> At 11:04 PM 2/14/01 -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >3) Once again, we were JOKING about that animation as: >a) producing animation for every bit Sorry, I didn't catch the sarcasm. While we're on the topic of animation in OSes and apps, perhaps we should switch to the talking, dancing paper clip. >That still does not address why an OPERATING SYSTEM would EVER need to >"compile code" that uses float! Certainly many aps might need float. But >what POSSIBLE legitimate reason would there ever be for an OS to need or >use floating point? Can anyone name any variable in an OS that should be >float? Or are you actually saying that the FPU requirement is NOT for the >OS at all, but that the OS is doing that for the sake of some aps? I doubt this discussion has been heard within the halls of Microsoft for more than a decade, so I guess it's on-topic. I see your point, particularly from a classic standpoint... an OS is considered the part that runs apps and manages resources, not drawing pretty pictures. But it's like arguing that Linux isn't an OS, it's a kernel and a bunch of GNU apps wrapped in a distribution. Win 9x doesn't really exist without the bundle of everything else. Could it be written without floats? As an exercise. It would be more fun to argue that DOS and Win 9x aren't really OSes. :-) I'm sure they didn't want to scare the bejesus out of the first wet-behind-the-ears CS grad who attempted to use "float" in their C program and got a link error. So where might floats be? In graphics code, particularly sloppy graphics code. But these days the OS includes OpenGL and DirectX, too, which have floats galore. In user-friendly code that showed percentages for completion or resources consumed. And then there's scads of apps like "Calc.exe", the calculator app. >Any reason why I couldn't create a glacially slow machine running it on a >386SX? Uhm, it would be glacially slow? :-) And Intel / Microsoft cabal doesn't want you to even try. - John From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 15 09:07:21 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010215072922.02ac4100@pc> from John Foust at "Feb 15, 1 07:32:59 am" Message-ID: <200102151507.HAA09968@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Does anyone really NEED to use MS products to know that they suck? > >Please... > > OK, the next time you reprimand someone for not knowing what > they're talking about, I'll just state that you don't really > need to use or understand something in order to say it "sucks". I can unequivocally say that Oreck vacuum cleaners suck without ever having used one. (waiting for the mailbombs and tomatoes) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- For every credibility gap, there is a gullibility fill. -- R. Clopton ------ From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 15 09:25:43 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > >BTW, "98" will REFUSE to install unless there is a math coprocessor! > > >What possible reasons could there be for an OS to need floating > > >point?????? > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > > An OS or an OS that comes with a slew of applications? > > A friend told me off-list that when copying a file, there is a graphic > icon of each bit being moved. He suggested that the floating point was > required for the OS due to some MICROS~1 OS programmer being unable to > compute the parabolic trajectory of the bits without using floats. > BTW, 95 will install on the same machine without the FPU (486SX). > Which apps, etc. are different? Or did MICROS~1 simply do the FPU > requirement to reduce the number of performance complaints about their > apps? > I can't attest as to why the FPU is required, but the animation you see when doing a file copy is just a very small, looped AVI file. No "trajectory" calculation is going on at all. g. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Feb 15 10:41:27 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: NT5 Message-ID: <01Feb15.164130gmt.46092@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:06:08 -0800 (PST) > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > Subject: Re: E11 / Windows ME question > > > "Windows 2000" was a renaming of "NT 5". > Did the non x86 versions of NT survive? Nope. W2K didn't make it past Beta 2 and NT doesn't make it past SP6....for Alpha anyway; the others were well gone. -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Feb 15 10:31:57 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010215103127.02acba90@pc> At 07:25 AM 2/15/01 -0800, you wrote: >I can't attest as to why the FPU is required, but the animation you see >when doing a file copy is just a very small, looped AVI file. No >"trajectory" calculation is going on at all. Just all the DLLs for an AVI player. :-) I feel better now. - John From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 15 10:55:55 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010215073429.02b6a520@pc> Message-ID: John has some very good points. > >3) Once again, we were JOKING about that animation as: > >a) producing animation for every bit [ and other exaggerations about that animation] On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > Sorry, I didn't catch the sarcasm. Sorry. My lack of clarity. It can be hard to tell whether one is exaggerating when finding fault with Windows. > While we're on the topic of > animation in OSes and apps, perhaps we should switch to the > talking, dancing paper clip. THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! You have identified _THE_ FPU killer app! We shall name the paper clip "Float"! Obviously, the PRIMARY reason for the FPU requirement is so that "Float" can perform for us! > I doubt this discussion has been heard within the halls of Microsoft > for more than a decade, so I guess it's on-topic. I see your point, > particularly from a classic standpoint... an OS is considered the > part that runs apps and manages resources, not drawing pretty pictures. I think that you're right about my attitude about the role of the OS. > But it's like arguing that Linux isn't an OS, it's a kernel and a bunch > of GNU apps wrapped in a distribution. Win 9x doesn't really exist > without the bundle of everything else. Could it be written without > floats? As an exercise. It would be more fun to argue that DOS and > Win 9x aren't really OSes. :-) Rather than "could it be rewritten float-free", I'm still aghast that any float was ever put into it. (Am I too extreme?) > I'm sure they didn't want to scare the bejesus out of the first > wet-behind-the-ears CS grad who attempted to use "float" in their > C program and got a link error. So where might floats be? In graphics > code, particularly sloppy graphics code. But these days the OS includes > OpenGL and DirectX, too, which have floats galore. In user-friendly > code that showed percentages for completion or resources consumed. Those percentages seem to always be displayed as integers. I teach lower division undergraduates to avoid using floating point for coming up with such numbers. Use of floating point (and then rounding to integer) for calculation of percentage completion or resources is EXACTLY my point in my bashing of Microsoft for incompetent programming. > And then there's scads of apps like "Calc.exe", the calculator app. Yes, there are and will be apps for which floating point will be useful or necessary. I'm willing to live with slow floating point emulation to get by for them. I maintain that the OS could/should provide the ap with a "system variable" for whether the resource (FPU) exists, but then it is the responsibility of the ap to use/shut down/substitute as needed for the the presence or absence of the resource. What's next? The next version of 9x will refuse to install if there is no sound card? Probably. "SOME apps might need it". And yet, for all of their efforts to protect apps that might want float, DEBUG (my favorite program from Microsoft) is STILL hard coded for 8086 ONLY code. DEBUG has been "upgraded" in numerous ways, such as additon of XA, XD commands, but no provision for mnemonics nor code for instructions that came after 8086, such as PUSHA, or SHL AX, 4 Rather than having to DB those instructions, I wouldn't mind having a command line option or mode switching command to enable 386 and above code. Or EVEN make 386 and above code the DEFAULT! (It could then be MY responsibility to not use "new" commands when coding for old processors) > >Any reason why I couldn't create a glacially slow machine running it on a > >386SX? > Uhm, it would be glacially slow? :-) And Intel / Microsoft cabal > doesn't want you to even try. Sometimes it feels like they don't want us to exist. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 15 11:00:53 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > I can't attest as to why the FPU is required, but the animation you see > when doing a file copy is just a very small, looped AVI file. No > "trajectory" calculation is going on at all. Once again, we were JOKING about that animation as: a) producing animation for every bit b) calculating positions for the animation c) using float for the calculations d) being THE reason why 98 "needs" a FPU. all exaggerations, and presumably NOT valid. But John has pointed out that the REAL reason why FPU is required is to enable "Float", the dancing paper clip. BTW, is any floating point required for the current Outlook (VTP) viruses? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 15 11:04:47 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Non x86 versions of NT5 In-Reply-To: <01Feb15.164130gmt.46092@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Adrian Graham wrote: > > Did the non x86 versions of NT survive? > Nope. W2K didn't make it past Beta 2 and NT doesn't make it past SP6....for > Alpha anyway; the others were well gone. I'm sorry to hear that. Does that leave CE as the ONLY Microsoft OS that supports more than one processor? From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 15 10:24:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <3A8B8B82.3F5A3DC3@gorge.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Jim Davis wrote: > QNX is also available free, including a windowing system, networking > and a development environment. ( for non commercial users ) > Jim Davis. Yeah, but they nickle & dime you on every single little utility that one takes for granted with a real *nix. Want grep? It'll cost you. vi? It'll cost you. At least the last time I looked into it (4 years ago). Don't get me wrong, QNX is terrific. Just expensive. If they are now offering a seemingly fully-blown system as described above free for hobbyists then more power to them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Feb 15 10:26:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010215072922.02ac4100@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > At 06:49 PM 2/14/01 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > > > >> You mean to tell me that you've never seen or used contemporary > >> post-95 Windows, but you feel comfortable criticizing it? Yes, > > > >Does anyone really NEED to use MS products to know that they suck? > >Please... > > OK, the next time you reprimand someone for not knowing what > they're talking about, I'll just state that you don't really > need to use or understand something in order to say it "sucks". Dweeb. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vicky at horizondatacom.com Thu Feb 15 12:21:31 2001 From: vicky at horizondatacom.com (Vicky Nosbisch) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: HP Drives Message-ID: <010401c0977c$2291e720$1400a8c0@vicky.horizondatacom.com> Hi, I'm in the market for some drives for an HP 9000 300 Series computer. Can anyone help? I need the 10MB drives, part# 9153A or long pn# 97500-85600 or the 20MB drives 9153B or pn# 45816-69111. Vicky Nosbisch Horizon DataCom Solutions, Inc. P: 614/847-0400 www.horizondatacom.com vicky@horizondatacom.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Feb 15 12:34:14 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: QNX In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Feb 15, 2001 08:24:09 am" Message-ID: <200102151834.f1FIYEp21074@bg-tc-ppp1387.monmouth.com> > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Jim Davis wrote: > > > QNX is also available free, including a windowing system, networking > > and a development environment. ( for non commercial users ) > > Jim Davis. > > Yeah, but they nickle & dime you on every single little utility that one > takes for granted with a real *nix. Want grep? It'll cost you. vi? > It'll cost you. Well, the source code exists and should be compilable on anything posix-like. The LynuxWorks (dumb name -- was formerly Lynx) folks are now working on full Linux binary compatiblity for their stuff so you could run the unmodified Linux binaries on LynxOS or BlueCat -- their real time Linux. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From emu at ecubics.com Thu Feb 15 12:36:31 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: MVII DIAG CUST References: <963.434T1500T2405409optimus@canit.se> <3A7C4A87.E3CBC1AF@mainecoon.com> <009301c09631$92daca70$71f2fea9@dellhare> Message-ID: <3A8C21AF.7BEAF12F@ecubics.com> Hi, Anybody out here has the MicroVax II Diagnostics on RX50 ? I somehow lost the first one of the 4 piece set :-( Cheers & thanks, emanuel From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 15 12:47:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <880.446T600T644177optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Feb 15, 1 01:04:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 679 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010215/3a4b7c3a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 15 12:49:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 14, 1 06:49:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 461 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010215/8f947c2f/attachment.ksh From phil at ultimate.com Thu Feb 15 13:15:45 2001 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:41 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <200102151915.OAA09948@ultimate.com> > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:33:54 -0600 > From: Tom Uban > > I think that not being able to access greater than 2GB makes it difficult > to setup a large disk, even if you are keeping the individual partitions > to less than 2GB. I don't know the exact details, but the version of SunOS > that I had just wouldn't do it. Maybe there was a patch or update which > would have fixed the problem as you describe. Well as I said. I'm typing this on a system with a 4GB disk, and recently retired a client's system that had a 9GB disk. I'm running stock 4.1.4 (well, the non-stock parts are not Sun supplied-- I have some Stanford patched modules that support multicast, and more importantly to me, BPF. I also have ip_fil filters, which replaced some IP files as well). -phil From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Thu Feb 15 13:44:13 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: QNX References: <200102151834.f1FIYEp21074@bg-tc-ppp1387.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <00b601c09787$b3280f20$0101010a@pentium2> Jim Davis wrote: > > > QNX is also available free, including a windowing system, networking > > > and a development environment. ( for non commercial users ) > > > Jim Davis. > > > > Yeah, but they nickle & dime you on every single little utility that one > > takes for granted with a real *nix. Want grep? It'll cost you. vi? > > It'll cost you. If you are interested in QNX, check out http://www.qnxstart.com/. Loads of free software and the latest QNX news. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 15 15:38:37 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: E11/WinME results.... Message-ID: <200102152138.NAA07872@shell1.aracnet.com> In case anyone cares it seems to work OK, I was able to boot RT-11, though I think I'm going to have to take a keyboard with me to plug in so that I'll have a keypad! BTW, I think the Wireless Ethernet I got with it is going to be pretty cool. Definitly be handy for my wife so she doesn't have to risk life and limb by entering the computer room :^) Zane From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 15 16:33:20 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: E11/WinME results.... In-Reply-To: <200102152138.NAA07872@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Feb 15, 1 01:38:37 pm" Message-ID: <200102152233.OAA10786@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > BTW, I think the Wireless Ethernet I got with it is going to be pretty cool. > Definitly be handy for my wife so she doesn't have to risk life and limb by > entering the computer room :^) As a medical student, I shudder to think how much RF is pumped through such a device. The bandwidth one device was managing made me wonder if standing in front of it would start to burn a hole through my abdomen. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Gravity is a myth. The Earth just sucks. ----------------------------------- From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Thu Feb 15 18:09:44 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) In-Reply-To: <200102152233.OAA10786@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <000e01c097ac$c4867890$4d0301ac@databaseamerica.com> >> As a medical student, I shudder to think how much RF... Hey, any information to export to us non-Med guys as to how bad RF really is? I don't believe that the last has been heard on the subject of CellPhones. There is so much pressure to go wireless on everything right now. Q: What Wavelengths and Wattages are known to really be dangerous? What is the Frequency of a Microwave oven, for example (900 Mhz? ). How much less dangerous is a signal of 1/2 that, etc... I have seen almost nothing scientific written on this subject and want to know more. John A. From forslund at tbaytel3.tbaytel.net Thu Feb 15 13:05:23 2001 From: forslund at tbaytel3.tbaytel.net (The Forslunds) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: California Scientific Systems Message-ID: <200102160006.f1G065497564@tbaytel.net> Hi, I found a California Scientific Systems computer, but have no idea what it is. It has dual 5 1/4" floppy drives in the front, and that's all i know about it. I'm thinking of purchasing it, but would like to know a little more about it - processor? ram? etc. I searched the web, but no hits. Anyone ever heard of this one or have any information? Thanks and enjoy, Bob From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Feb 15 18:25:04 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) In-Reply-To: <000e01c097ac$c4867890$4d0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: <200102152233.OAA10786@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010215162233.01a16a10@208.226.86.10> >Q: What Wavelengths and Wattages are known to really > be dangerous? What is the Frequency of a Microwave > oven, for example (900 Mhz? ). How much less > dangerous is a signal of 1/2 that, etc... I have > seen almost nothing scientific written on this subject > and want to know more. The new 802.11D devices like I've got operate at 2.4Ghz because 1) its easy to do spread spectrum there 2) its the same frequency as most microwave ovens so the spectrum is considered 'junk.' The note with the card said, "do not operate closer than 2.5" to your skin for extended periods of time." No definition of 'extended' as far as I could tell. Now the microwave is 500 - 750 watts I believe and this thing is less than 2 so we're not talking about roasting here. --chuck From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Feb 15 18:31:11 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010215162233.01a16a10@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > The new 802.11D devices like I've got operate at 2.4Ghz because You mean 802.11b, right? > The note with the card said, "do not operate closer than 2.5" to your skin > for extended periods of time." No definition of 'extended' as far as I > could tell. Now the microwave is 500 - 750 watts I believe and this thing > is less than 2 so we're not talking about roasting here. The FDA has established microwave radiation exposure levels greater than 5mw/cm2 to be dangerous. The cards emit max about 200mw. I don't remember how that drops off with distance (drops off with distance^2, doesn't it?). -- Doug From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 15 18:56:11 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: LF Series 1600 (or something along those lines) Message-ID: Anyone know what these are? Other than ugly heavy S-100 boxen? The case is about the size of a BA11 (i.e. standard rackmount), and they have 5.25" floppy drives and a couple 5.25" HDD's as well. Lots of ports in the back, so I'm guessing these are some kind of multiuser systems... The processor appears to be a V20, but I didn't look too close so don't hold me to that. If anyone would be interested in these or boards from them, let me know since they're going to be scrapped otherwise. They're not mine, but the guy at one of the surplus places I go to was about to dismember them and I figured I might as well post 'em, keep in mind that if you do want one, they probably weigh about umm 40 pounds or so... Located in Denver, CO, 80222... Also, they're not free, so make offers.. Doing my part to save old stuff, Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dogbert at mindless.com Thu Feb 15 19:23:23 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) References: <200102152233.OAA10786@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <5.0.0.25.2.20010215162233.01a16a10@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A8C810B.935CBC90@mindless.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > >Q: What Wavelengths and Wattages are known to really > > be dangerous? What is the Frequency of a Microwave > > oven, for example (900 Mhz? ). How much less > > dangerous is a signal of 1/2 that, etc... I have > > seen almost nothing scientific written on this subject > > and want to know more. > > The new 802.11D devices like I've got operate at 2.4Ghz because > 1) its easy to do spread spectrum there > 2) its the same frequency as most microwave ovens so the spectrum > is considered 'junk.' > > The note with the card said, "do not operate closer than 2.5" to your skin > for extended periods of time." No definition of 'extended' as far as I > could tell. Now the microwave is 500 - 750 watts I believe and this thing > is less than 2 so we're not talking about roasting here. No, more of a slow-cooker. :) By the way, ANSI has a standard for RF exposure limits. I don't recall the std. number offhand but it shows that certain frequencies are likely to affect certain body parts, so it's not a simple case of more dangerous as the frequency goes higher (or lower.) For example, 1.2 Ghz is about right for heating the vitreous fluid in the eyeball, and so exposure to 1.2 Ghz should always be kept away from the eyes to prevent possible vision damage. I think other frequencies are also bad for different organs. Apparently, it's the heating effect of RF that tends to do the most damage until the frequency gets quite high. -- Ross > > > --chuck From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 15 17:29:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: FW: Tek XD88 (disk copying / sectors etc) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010214222135.3caf6df8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <789.447T1200T294413optimus@canit.se> Joe skrev: > That should work EXCEPT that he can no longer boot the machine bue to >the failed disk drive. He needs to mount the drive in another machine and >duplicate it there. However, it's very unlikely that he'll be able to find >a machine that can read the old drive and correctly interpret the data. >Therefore, he needs to find a way to just read it as raw data and make an >EXACT copy of it on the new drive. The copy will have to be exact since it >will include the i-node tables and all the other things that make up a Unix >file system. That's why I suggested one of the disk duplicating programs >like Ghost. Aha, so that was the missing link. I'm sorry for being so thick. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 15 17:24:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <00b501c096f4$b7804f80$49769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <625.447T1200T244781optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >From: Iggy Drougge >>Linux is a big heap of bloat. It seems every UNIX is, too. >>My definition of light-weight is floppy-based, sub-4 MB. >For PCs that leaves a few things like BeOS, Minix, DOS, >ConcurrentDOS, CCPM and not much else. Is BeOS really floppy-based and content with 4 MB? Last time I looked, it was a 40 MB download requiring a Pentium processor and all kinds of luxury. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > well, maybe if it contained ChibiChibi-JarJar pairing.. Okay, so now I'm thinking about a threesome between ChibiChibi, Jar-Jar and Pikachu. You bastard. A. Jones From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 15 17:40:15 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010215073429.02b6a520@pc> Message-ID: <818.447T750T404079optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >I'm sure they didn't want to scare the bejesus out of the first >wet-behind-the-ears CS grad who attempted to use "float" in their >C program and got a link error. So where might floats be? In graphics >code, particularly sloppy graphics code. But these days the OS includes >OpenGL and DirectX, too, which have floats galore. In user-friendly >code that showed percentages for completion or resources consumed. >And then there's scads of apps like "Calc.exe", the calculator app. Floats don't require any floating-point unit. Scads of CALC.EXEs have been written before the dawn of the FPU. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language. I use it occasionally... :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 15 17:47:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <00d701c09703$7a508fd0$49769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <1164.447T1100T474789optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >>I think you're thinking QNX and not BeOS (BeOS requires at least 32MB >and >>200MB disk space). I know QNX can be squeezed down to that (or at least >>could at one point, not sure if it still will fit on a floppy). >Thats it. QNX even has a demo with a browser that fits on floppy. >There is also the linux kernal project, I have the LRP (router) on >a single floppy. Though for smallness there is CPM-86 and DOS. CP/M and DOS don't even have GUIs. =? The QNX demo is of course interesting, but won't run on a 4 MB machine, since it is heavily compressed on that floppy and needs to unpack into RAM. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Within several messages, hsc refers to the user as a ``jerk''. This happens if you are using features which are only supported by some special browsers. Some people say they are forced by their employer to use those features, and therefor feel insulted by hsc. As a solution, you can store the amount of your monthly payment in this variable: setenv HSCSALARY 1000 After this, hsc will stop calling you a ``jerk''. Instead, it will now use the term ``prostitute''. -- README for the HTML preprocessor "hsc" From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Feb 15 19:48:29 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) Message-ID: <005901c097bb$efa6f9f0$e3759a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >The new 802.11D devices like I've got operate at 2.4Ghz because > 1) its easy to do spread spectrum there No because it's legal there. ;) > 2) its the same frequency as most microwave ovens so the spectrum > is considered 'junk.' Nope. Microwaves are 900mhz or so. the 2.4ghz was picked for the lack of atmospheric bending making it line of sight and also efficient antennas very small. >The note with the card said, "do not operate closer than 2.5" to your skin >for extended periods of time." No definition of 'extended' as far as I Way lower than 2W, most are in the sub 160milliwatt range. Very low risk save for very close to the antenna as the concentration of power is greatest there and diminishes at the rate of square law so after a foot or so the power per sq/in is very low. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Feb 15 19:44:07 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) Message-ID: <005801c097bb$eea652d0$e3759a8d@ajp166> From: John Allain >Q: What Wavelengths and Wattages are known to really > be dangerous? What is the Frequency of a Microwave > oven, for example (900 Mhz? ). How much less > dangerous is a signal of 1/2 that, etc... I have > seen almost nothing scientific written on this subject > and want to know more. Microwaves run around 900mhz. That is the majik freq for really shaking water ions till they warm up. The key concern is the power/area* time With the threshold around 900mhz being about 10milliwatts/square inch. The effect is frequency sensitive where very low frequencies are less impact then say microwave. the primary damaging effect is heating either localized or generalized. I've been burnt by a 20watt UHF (474mhz) twoway radio when a bozo keyed up while I was working on the antenna. It punched a nice hole in my finger that took a long time to heal. cell phones FYI are in the 850mhz range and relatively low power in the sub .5W range with a low energy density. FYI the average HAM VHF or UHF portable is usually 2-10 times higher power output {1 to 5W}. There is some risk, I would consider it low by any standard I've seen. Oh, people who drive while talking on cell phones are 4 times more likely to be involved in an accident. That has been verified. Allison From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Feb 15 19:58:45 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) In-Reply-To: Re: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) (Doug Salot) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010215162233.01a16a10@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <14988.35157.774400.766440@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 15, Doug Salot wrote: > The FDA has established microwave radiation exposure levels greater than > 5mw/cm2 to be dangerous. The cards emit max about 200mw. I don't > remember how that drops off with distance (drops off with distance^2, > doesn't it?). That's correct, distance^2. -Dave McGuire From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Feb 15 20:08:09 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) Message-ID: <006901c097bd$c11e5ea0$e3759a8d@ajp166> From: Ross Archer >By the way, ANSI has a standard for RF exposure limits. I don't recall As do OSHA. >the std. number offhand but it shows that certain frequencies are likely to >affect certain body parts, so it's not a simple case of more dangerous >as the frequency goes higher (or lower.) For example, 1.2 Ghz is >about right for heating the vitreous fluid in the eyeball, and so exposure >to 1.2 Ghz should always be kept away from the eyes to prevent possible >vision damage. I think other frequencies are also bad for different organs. >Apparently, it's the heating effect of RF that tends to do the most damage >until the frequency gets quite high. The ability of RF to penetrate the body also goes down with increasing frequency. Also at incresing frequency the ability to focus RF power becomes easier and the antennas more compact adding to the the risk. All RF should be considered with care. IT's energy radiated and if you are in a concentrated field (IE: in front of a dish antenna) then the risks go up as compared to a diffuse field. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Feb 15 20:01:59 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 Message-ID: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >CP/M and DOS don't even have GUIs. =? Yep, saves space and runs like the wind. >The QNX demo is of course interesting, but won't run on a 4 MB machine, since >it is heavily compressed on that floppy and needs to unpack into RAM. So, you want everything? ;) the only thing I know that has a gui and can run in 4mb (barely ) is non-PS (VMS/Decwindows). You still need at least 80mb of disk though. I've heard the Amiga or one of the other commies had a real neat rommed OS that had graphic primitives. Allison From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Feb 15 21:05:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> References: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >still need at least 80mb of disk though. I've heard the Amiga or >one of the other commies had a real neat rommed OS that had >graphic primitives. The most base Amiga 1000's have just 256k of RAM and a single 880k floppy and require two steps to boot the OS (loading Kickstart off of the 1st floppy and then reading Workbench off of the second) and will happily run off of that single floppy, even allowing you to swap it out for whatever application disk you want to use. This with full GUI, sound and all the other nifty things that go along with using an Amiga. I no longer recall what the exact size of the A1000's Kickstart is but nearly all remaining machines (with the exception of a softkicked A3000) had the Kickstart in ROM. Of course, there was also the Atari ST line that had it's GEM-based TOS totally ROM based and ran well in less than 1meg of RAM, though I've never thought their graphics capabilities were on par with the Amiga. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Feb 15 21:18:06 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2 (Jeff Hellige) References: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> On February 15, Jeff Hellige wrote: > The most base Amiga 1000's have just 256k of RAM and a single > 880k floppy and require two steps to boot the OS (loading Kickstart > off of the 1st floppy and then reading Workbench off of the second) > and will happily run off of that single floppy, even allowing you to > swap it out for whatever application disk you want to use. This with > full GUI, sound and all the other nifty things that go along with > using an Amiga. I no longer recall what the exact size of the > A1000's Kickstart is but nearly all remaining machines (with the > exception of a softkicked A3000) had the Kickstart in ROM. Of > course, there was also the Atari ST line that had it's GEM-based TOS > totally ROM based and ran well in less than 1meg of RAM, though I've > never thought their graphics capabilities were on par with the Amiga. Amigas rock. A solid operating system with preemptive multitasking and a GUI in 256K of RAM on a floppy-based system...Amazing! Why can't Microsoft get it right with thousands of programmers, 800+MHz processors, hundreds of megabytes of RAM, and gigabytes of disk space? -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 15 21:25:07 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Feb 15, 2001 09:01:59 PM Message-ID: <200102160325.TAA20426@shell1.aracnet.com> > So, you want everything? ;) the only thing I know that has a gui > and can run in 4mb (barely ) is non-PS (VMS/Decwindows). You > still need at least 80mb of disk though. I'm guessing you're refering to an older version of VMS/DECwindows though. Although it would be an interesting experiment to try and get modern versions of both running on a VAX with only 4MB and try and do anything. It would defininitly be educational (and I mean that seriously) to try and sqeeze it onto an 80MB disk. Since you bring up what I'm taking to be an older version of an OS...... Versions of MacOS through System 7.1.x could without any problem. As I've mentioned I've done it with Linux using both MGR and X-Windows on a 386sx/16. Obviously ancient versions of OS/2 and DOS/Windows. > I've heard the Amiga or > one of the other commies had a real neat rommed OS that had > graphic primitives. The Amiga has part of it in ROM, but I think it's just like older Mac's have the Toolbox in ROM. The Atari 16 and 32-bit systems on the other hand had the OS in ROM. Downside being it was single task. Still very cool though, it's the main reason I got my Atari TT/030 a few years ago (though got to admit I wish I'd gotten a Falcon for the better colour). Zane From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 15 21:47:47 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) In-Reply-To: <000e01c097ac$c4867890$4d0301ac@databaseamerica.com> from John Allain at "Feb 15, 1 07:09:44 pm" Message-ID: <200102160347.TAA04202@stockholm.ptloma.edu> >>As a medical student, I shudder to think how much RF... > Hey, any information to export to us non-Med guys as > to how bad RF really is? I don't believe that the last > has been heard on the subject of CellPhones. There is so > much pressure to go wireless on everything right now. Everyone and their brother have their own ideas. Everyone agrees that low-wavelength, high-energy radiation is Bad For You even in small doses (just that X-rays, for example, are worth the imperceptible risk in the very fast blasts they're administered), but obviously low-energy rad carries no acute problems and there's no hard longitudinal data on what happens during extended exposure because it's so difficult to control for, not to mention quantify. So it's all conjecture. I don't like cell phones for a totally different reason: I don't want people calling me at all hours of the day. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Put your Nose to the Grindstone! -- Plastic Surgeons-Toolmakers Union Ltd. - From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Thu Feb 15 21:49:53 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) In-Reply-To: <000e01c097ac$c4867890$4d0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: <200102152233.OAA10786@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010215224953.006e9488@obregon.multi.net.co> RF at around 2.2-2.6 GHz (typical microwave oven freqs) will warm living tissues. There are tables listing the complex transmission impedance of say, chicken, at those frequencies :-) . _So far_, other than the heating effect, nothing _scientifically conclusive_ can be said about whether that will increase your odds of developing cancer. The same can be said about exposure to AC magnetic fields at power line frequencies. Again, _so far_. But lots of studies have been done, so if there was a strong link it would have been discovered by now. http://www.mcw.edu/gcrc/cop/powerlines-cancer-FAQ/toc.html Carlos. At 07:09 PM 2/15/01 -0500, you wrote: > >>> As a medical student, I shudder to think how much RF... > > >Hey, any information to export to us non-Med guys as >to how bad RF really is? > >Q: What Wavelengths and Wattages are known to really > be dangerous? What is the Frequency of a Microwave > oven, for example (900 Mhz? ). How much less > dangerous is a signal of 1/2 that, etc... I have > seen almost nothing scientific written on this subject > and want to know more. > >John A. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Thu Feb 15 22:03:57 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) In-Reply-To: <3A8C810B.935CBC90@mindless.com> References: <200102152233.OAA10786@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <5.0.0.25.2.20010215162233.01a16a10@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010215230357.01ac45a4@obregon.multi.net.co> At 05:23 PM 2/15/01 -0800, you wrote: >By the way, ANSI has a standard for RF exposure limits. I don't recall >the std. number offhand but it shows that certain frequencies are likely to >affect certain body parts, so it's not a simple case of more dangerous >as the frequency goes higher (or lower.) For example, 1.2 Ghz is >about right for heating the vitreous fluid in the eyeball, and so exposure >to 1.2 Ghz should always be kept away from the eyes to prevent possible >vision damage. >-- Ross Yes, eyeballs are an issue, because (1) just a few degrees of hyperthermia are enough to cause opacity (think cooked egg whites), (2) unlike the hand, the eyes aren't especially well equiped with temperature sensing nerve terminations, (3) unlike the skin, the eye doesn't have an automatic cooling mechanism (sweating). In industrial accidents involving microwave ovens, it is usually the eyes that go. I have a working magnetron next to me that I've been tempted to experiment with for a while. What would happen if you use the interior of a working PC as a resonant cavity? :-) . carlos. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 15 22:12:47 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Feb 15, 2001 10:18:06 PM Message-ID: <200102160412.UAA21334@shell1.aracnet.com> > Amigas rock. A solid operating system with preemptive multitasking > and a GUI in 256K of RAM on a floppy-based system...Amazing! Why > can't Microsoft get it right with thousands of programmers, 800+MHz > processors, hundreds of megabytes of RAM, and gigabytes of disk space? > > -Dave McGuire I think a large part of the problem is the current trend of 24-bit GUI's that are just plain gooey! I tend to prefer a good Graphical User environment over the command line (if for no other reason that getting lots of terminal windows). The real question is why can't anyone make a nice attractive lightwieght GUI? Older versions of the Mac OS were great (don't get me started on Mac OS X). The Amiga OS is another good example. TOS however, seems just a bit to lightwieght to me. Of course I'm typing this on a Linux box running Enlightenment using the QNX theme. It's not to gooey, but it's anything but lightwieght! And yes the main thing I've got running are 36 Xterms :^) Zane From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 15 23:36:12 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: FW: Tek XD88 (disk copying / sectors etc) In-Reply-To: <789.447T1200T294413optimus@canit.se> References: <3.0.1.16.20010214222135.3caf6df8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010216003612.3be7799a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:29 AM 2/16/01 +0100, you wrote: >Joe skrev: > >> That should work EXCEPT that he can no longer boot the machine bue to >>the failed disk drive. He needs to mount the drive in another machine and >>duplicate it there. However, it's very unlikely that he'll be able to find >>a machine that can read the old drive and correctly interpret the data. >>Therefore, he needs to find a way to just read it as raw data and make an >>EXACT copy of it on the new drive. The copy will have to be exact since it >>will include the i-node tables and all the other things that make up a Unix >>file system. That's why I suggested one of the disk duplicating programs >>like Ghost. > >Aha, so that was the missing link. I'm sorry for being so thick. No promlem. At least you were trying to help. Joe From dan at ekoan.com Thu Feb 15 22:46:56 2001 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: VMS 4.4 source code on microfiche Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010215234656.00a87930@mail.rdss.com> Hello folks, While cleaning out a storage box I came across a padded envelope that contains 536 sheets of microfiche perporting to be the source code for VAX/VMS 4.4. Each sheet is numbered from 0001 to 0536, has a part number of AH-HP48A-SE and is marked "DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION" / "CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY". The envelope itself is labeled AH-HP48A-SE VAX/VMS V4.4 SRC LST MCRF (c) 1986 My question is, was DEC in the habit of selling or distributing their OS source code to third parties? If I recall correctly, VMS was written (mostly) in BLISS, but since my microfiche reader is still in storage I can't confirm the contents of these sheets. I also seem to recall a VMS simulator for MS-DOS that I have around here somewhere... Cheers, Dan From Glenatacme at aol.com Thu Feb 15 22:45:22 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: QNX!?! Message-ID: > > > > QNX is also available free, including a windowing system, networking > > > > and a development environment. ( for non commercial users ) > > > > Jim Davis. Free? How do I get QNX for free? > > > Yeah, but they nickle & dime you on every single little utility that one > > > takes for granted with a real *nix. Want grep? It'll cost you. vi? > > > It'll cost you. vi? QNX used to come with ed, which was pretty good. > If you are interested in QNX, check out http://www.qnxstart.com/. Loads of > free software and the latest QNX news. Okay, I did system and application programming under QNX from '88 to '93, and found it to very robust, especially in networking and interprocess communication. Exceptionally fault-tolerant, too. Impossible to crash the kernal without writing code for that specific purpose. No problem running MS-DOS applications, either. Where can I get it "free?" Last I heard it was about $400. I didn't see anything at qnxstart.com about a free version, but perhaps I'm blind . . . the QNX demo includes a nice web browser and dial-up software, and, as expected from Gordon Bell, the mini-os, browser and dial-up fit on a 1.44 MB bootable floppy. How do I get the "free" version? Glen 0/0 From dan at ekoan.com Thu Feb 15 22:54:59 2001 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Older DEC manuals Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010215235459.00a88590@mail.rdss.com> Hello again, Further cleaning of a storage area revealed a three-ring binder containing the following DEC manuals, one of which surprised me: VT55 Programming Manual (AA-4949B-TC) DLV11-E and DLV11-F asynchronous line interface user's manual (EK-DLV11-OP-001) RL01/RL02 Disk Subsystem User's Guide (EK-RL012-UG-002) RX02 Floppy Disk System User's Guide PDP-11 Family Field Installation and Hardware Acceptance Reference Manual (EK-FS003-IN-002), the title page of which is stamped "COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL." My question on this one is, was it common for these field service manuals to find their way out into the wild? There is also a manual from Computer Devices, Inc., titled Miniterm 80/132 Printing Option (0008-03421G) Operation Manual Cheers, Dan From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Feb 15 23:13:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: VMS 4.4 source code on microfiche In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010215234656.00a87930@mail.rdss.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010215211145.00a72180@208.226.86.10> >While cleaning out a storage box I came across a padded >envelope that contains 536 sheets of microfiche perporting >to be the source code for VAX/VMS 4.4. Each sheet is >numbered from 0001 to 0536, has a part number of AH-HP48A-SE >and is marked "DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION" / >"CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY". Not uncommon, I think an unopened bag of fiche recently sold on Ebay for something like $26. I've got 4.4 on fiche but would like to find 5.5-2 on Microfiche, then I could figure out how the darn SII chip is supposed to work on the KA640. --Chuck From JELynch at stny.rr.com Thu Feb 15 23:32:37 2001 From: JELynch at stny.rr.com (James E. Lynch) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Data I/O 212 EPROM programmer Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010216003107.00ac9af0@pop-server.stny.rr.com> I am looking for information on the basic operation of the data i/o 212 eprom programmer. In addition, what is the disk that plugs into the side of this unit for? From flo at rdel.co.uk Fri Feb 16 01:53:54 2001 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: VMS 4.4 source code on microfiche References: <3.0.5.32.20010215234656.00a87930@mail.rdss.com> Message-ID: <3A8CDC92.CD8448EA@rdel.co.uk> Dan Veeneman wrote: > > My question is, was DEC in the habit of selling or > distributing their OS source code to third parties? > > If I recall correctly, VMS was written (mostly) in BLISS, but > since my microfiche reader is still in storage I can't confirm > the contents of these sheets. The company I work for used to get these, so I have a box of the same fiches. I don't think we ever _used_ them, though. My main use for it has been to extract the parsing tables for DSR (Digital Standard Runoff), in order to write a program to accurately convert Runoff documents to HTML. From jimdavis at gorge.net Fri Feb 16 01:55:40 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: qnx for free References: Message-ID: <3A8CDCFC.84709E95@gorge.net> It's available at: www.getqnx.com Blurb from the web site: Welcome to get.qnx.com, the download site for the QNX? realtime platform (RTP), free for non-commercial use. Posted January 18, 2001, this distribution of the QNX RTP features a new version of the core OS, multimedia enhancements, SCSI support, and more. available in either self-installing exe file for Windows (26M) or a CD-ROM image (268M) Jim Davis. ( Don't ask me about RF emission testing "MPE" ) From flo at rdel.co.uk Fri Feb 16 02:11:44 2001 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Older DEC manuals References: <3.0.5.32.20010215235459.00a88590@mail.rdss.com> Message-ID: <3A8CE0C0.F2511EA0@rdel.co.uk> Dan Veeneman wrote: > > Hello again, > > Further cleaning of a storage area revealed a > three-ring binder containing the following DEC manuals, > one of which surprised me: > > VT55 Programming Manual (AA-4949B-TC) I would love to see a scan of this. I've never seen a VT55, but I'd love to know how the "waveform graphics" were controlled. From vonhagen at vonhagen.org Fri Feb 16 07:11:12 2001 From: vonhagen at vonhagen.org (William von Hagen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: White Chapel Workstations (Hitech) Hardware/Docs/Software Wanted Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010216081045.04bdc8f0@mail.vonhagen.org> After begging for help with my new MicroExploder, it occurred to me that it's been a while since I begged the group and the universe in general for any White Chapel Workstation or Hitech hardware, docs, marketing literature. if you have any WCW hardware, docs, etc. that you're willing to part with, please let me know. I'll pay something plus all shipping charges. It doesn't matter what country you're in! "Will work for obscure computers" Bill From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Feb 16 05:40:57 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Dejanews Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD176182@exchange.softwright.co.uk> > I'd been meaning pulling off all messages from a specific group off to my > local hard drive. yep, that's what I want to be able to do too. Most of it will be junk, obviously, but at least if I have it locally I only have myself to blame for losing it :) Using that group:xxx search string looks like just the job, should be able to write a client to hook up to the site and pull groups to local storage with that (and keep the threading too hopefully!). Not sure if that could be made compatible with awhatever format stuff's held in on a news server or not, but that'd be nice. Something to look into anyway... cheers Jules -- From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 16 07:42:25 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Older DEC manuals In-Reply-To: <3A8CE0C0.F2511EA0@rdel.co.uk> References: <3.0.5.32.20010215235459.00a88590@mail.rdss.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010216073808.02b5c100@pc> At 08:11 AM 2/16/01 +0000, you wrote: >> VT55 Programming Manual (AA-4949B-TC) > >I would love to see a scan of this. I've never seen a VT55, but I'd love >to know how the "waveform graphics" were controlled. Ah, that brings back memories. I so badly wanted to write computer graphics programs back in 1979 or so. My high school had an 11/03 with two VT-55 and an LA-36. Everyone thought the VT-55 were VT-52 until I read the fine manual and tried to make them sing with those "waveform graphics": two lines of pixels that could be addressed vertically but that were locked horizontally. This forced me to try to write generic line-drawing routines that re-used pixels. Eventually I think my subroutines consumed all the memory that BASIC had to offer, and I was left with no room for the Star Wars-ish video game I wanted to write. :-) - John From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 16 07:44:24 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010215072922.02ac4100@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010216074300.02a7eef0@pc> At 08:26 AM 2/15/01 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> OK, the next time you reprimand someone for not knowing what >> they're talking about, I'll just state that you don't really >> need to use or understand something in order to say it "sucks". > >Dweeb. Uh, Sellam, you're hanging out writing messages on a mailing list composed entirely of dweebs who like old computers. To paraphrase Firesign Theater, "we're all dweebs on this bus." - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 16 09:09:04 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: HP Drives In-Reply-To: <010401c0977c$2291e720$1400a8c0@vicky.horizondatacom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010216100904.3fa7f75a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi Vicky, I *think* I have several HP 9153 drives. I'll have to check and see what model they are but I think they're "B"s. I'll check and let you know what I find. How many are you looking for? Joe At 01:21 PM 2/15/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, >I'm in the market for some drives for an HP 9000 300 Series computer. Can >anyone help? I need the 10MB drives, part# 9153A or long pn# 97500-85600 or >the 20MB drives 9153B or pn# 45816-69111. > >Vicky Nosbisch >Horizon DataCom Solutions, Inc. >P: 614/847-0400 >www.horizondatacom.com >vicky@horizondatacom.com > > > From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 15 23:45:34 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Corvus? Message-ID: <725.447T1700T4055681optimus@canit.se> While going through the manuals for a Stride 460 last night, I finally discovered what the LAN port was for - Omninet (Corvus). I know of exactly one other machine with Omninet- the Research Machines Nimbus. Was this network widespread once? What kind of topology did it employ? Are there NICs for any other computers, perhaps even PCs? Any information is welcome. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. The object of this game is to take an ordinary guy and make him into a Pimp Master. You start off in your home town.You'll gradually build up cash and prostitutes,until you wipe out the other pimps in town. Then,it's time to move on to another,bigger city,and do the same. Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software From optimus at canit.se Thu Feb 15 23:17:37 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <1193.447T1850T3775655optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >From: Iggy Drougge >>CP/M and DOS don't even have GUIs. =? >Yep, saves space and runs like the wind. Pfah. Mind you, they don't even multitask. How much OS for your money is that? >>The QNX demo is of course interesting, but won't run on a 4 MB machine, >since >>it is heavily compressed on that floppy and needs to unpack into RAM. >So, you want everything? ;) the only thing I know that has a gui >and can run in 4mb (barely ) is non-PS (VMS/Decwindows). You >still need at least 80mb of disk though. I've heard the Amiga or >one of the other commies had a real neat rommed OS that had >graphic primitives. I'm amazed that DECwindows will actually run in such a small (as far as non- home systems go) environment. Yes, the Amiga is partially ROM-based, and runs with a meg of memory if need be. The Atari ST ran TOS with GEM entirely in a small ROM, but then that didn't mutltitask. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. - Lupin! Vart ska du? - Tar v?gen ?ver berget f?ljer gr?nsen s? kommer vi till havet. - Det ?r ju mer ?n 100 km. - Det ?r v?l ingenting. Jag tillh?r v?rldseliten jag. Lupin III den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From ernestls at home.com Fri Feb 16 10:27:36 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: Corvus? In-Reply-To: <725.447T1700T4055681optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: The apple II, and I believe the commodore 64 could use this. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Iggy Drougge >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:46 PM >To: Classic computing >Subject: Corvus? > > >While going through the manuals for a Stride 460 last night, I finally >discovered what the LAN port was for - Omninet (Corvus). I know of >exactly one >other machine with Omninet- the Research Machines Nimbus. Was this network >widespread once? What kind of topology did it employ? Are there >NICs for any >other computers, perhaps even PCs? Any information is welcome. > >-- >En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > >The object of this game is to take an ordinary guy and make him into a Pimp >Master. You start off in your home town.You'll gradually build up cash and >prostitutes,until you wipe out the other pimps in town. Then,it's >time to move >on to another,bigger city,and do the same. > Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software > From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 16 10:12:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:42 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010216074300.02a7eef0@pc> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > At 08:26 AM 2/15/01 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> OK, the next time you reprimand someone for not knowing what > >> they're talking about, I'll just state that you don't really > >> need to use or understand something in order to say it "sucks". > > > >Dweeb. > > Uh, Sellam, you're hanging out writing messages on a mailing > list composed entirely of dweebs who like old computers. > To paraphrase Firesign Theater, "we're all dweebs on this bus." Dork. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Feb 16 11:45:35 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: OT: Re: E11 / Windows ME question Message-ID: ***** Warning I'm going OT, lighting afterburners, putting on my flame retardant suit, taking Mylanta, eating Tagamets, ***** File moving messages/Moving file messages. Maybe we are all missing the assumptions that these types of animations create. 1. Do I need to see bits flying through the air? 2. How about a fuel gauge of the source disk and another for the destination disk? :) 3. What we really need is a "real" indicator. 4. I seem to remember looking at disk drive lights and feeling comfortable that data was being read from one and written to another. 5. I could also tell a lot about system activity by looking at the register lights, device lights and noticing patterns. 6. I seem to remember system idle patterns that let me know my program was done or hung up. 7. System lights are now only indicators that the power supply is working. 8. I also can't stand lights that indicate the sum of all disk activity. 9. Have you ever put your ear to a disk drive to see if anything is actually happening? 9. Now data could be written to the Microsoft black hole and I wouldn't be able to notice it unless it didn't make it to my destination disk. 10. Maybe the data is in the systems disk cache and not on the disk. 11. Maybe the data is in the disk controller cache and not on the disk. 12. Maybe it didn't make it intact. 13. Maybe the blue screen got it. 14. Maybe the data doesn't exist at all but is only electrons that are rented to me while my software/hardware license is paid up and I'm behaving. What I'm saying is that the message is now more important than the substance of the action. Cute messages instead of substance. I'm now changing my diapers and having another bourbon and water until my blood pressure drops below 1000/1000. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 16 12:19:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: OT: RF (was: RE: E11/WinME results....) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010215230357.01ac45a4@obregon.multi.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Feb 15, 1 11:03:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 291 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010216/c776456d/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 16 12:45:46 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > Amigas rock. A solid operating system with preemptive multitasking >and a GUI in 256K of RAM on a floppy-based system...Amazing! I've even been known to make my Amiga multi-user. I had 3 serial ports installed on my A4000, and had my Atari-ST emulating a VT-100 terminal hooked up to one of them. I then redirected all console I/O from an AmigaDOS shell to the serial port. The person on the VT-100 could do whatever they wished as long as the it didn't involve graphics or something that opened up a new window. I even had a small IRC program that could be run like that if the A4000 was online. >can't Microsoft get it right with thousands of programmers, 800+MHz >processors, hundreds of megabytes of RAM, and gigabytes of disk space? Because they lack orginality and would rather swallow up whatever smaller companies actually come up with original ideas? Less time spent on R&D that way. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Feb 16 13:03:30 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: IBM 6360 8 inch drive Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010216135748.00a637d0@mail.wincom.net> Does anyone have any information on the type 6360 drive? It was originally part of a word processor. It has one 37 pin female DB, one 25 pin male DB and AC. Thanks Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From ryan at hack.net Fri Feb 16 13:22:46 2001 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 References: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A8D7E06.BEDD4EC3@hack.net> Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Amigas rock. A solid operating system with preemptive multitasking > >and a GUI in 256K of RAM on a floppy-based system...Amazing! > > I've even been known to make my Amiga multi-user. I had 3 > serial ports installed on my A4000, and had my Atari-ST emulating a > VT-100 terminal hooked up to one of them. I then redirected all > console I/O from an AmigaDOS shell to the serial port. The person on > the VT-100 could do whatever they wished as long as the it didn't > involve graphics or something that opened up a new window. I even > had a small IRC program that could be run like that if the A4000 was > online. > Ah yes, I remember setting up a telnet server on my old Amigas like this as well (as part of AS225). In fact, it was quite usable, especially if you had that patch the would kill any requesters that popped up; particularily those "Insert Volume" ones. R From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 16 13:29:08 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: References: <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010216132539.02b5c100@pc> At 01:45 PM 2/16/01 -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I've even been known to make my Amiga multi-user. I had 3 serial ports installed on my A4000, and had my Atari-ST emulating a VT-100 terminal hooked up to one of them. I then redirected all console I/O from an AmigaDOS shell to the serial port. I did that, too, via dial-up. I used the most excellent Pro-YAM terminal software on my PC to answer. I could control the PC remotely, but Pro-YAM could also open a remote Amiga shell on the other serial port. - John From mark_k at iname.com Fri Feb 16 08:50:41 2001 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Usenet postings on CD-ROM (was Re: Dejanews) Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 John Ruschmeyer wrote: > Even better, they are going to be reinstating the dejaNews archives > back to 1995. > > Now if someone would just find a way to incorporate the old Usenet on > CD archives and, perhaps, take donations of single articles that > people may have archived personally. A few years ago (probably 1992-1994??) at least one company produced monthly CDs containing Usenet postings. I seem to remember reading somewhere that were for use on Sun workstations or similar, since the CDs used the workstation's native filesystem rather than ISO 9660. Maybe they changed that for later CDs. Does anyone have any of these Usenet CDs? -- Mark From mwp at acm.org Fri Feb 16 14:47:03 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: ProYAM (was Sun SPARCstation 2) References: <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010216132539.02b5c100@pc> Message-ID: <004d01c09859$9e880700$0200a8c0@zeus> > I did that, too, via dial-up. I used the most excellent Pro-YAM > terminal software on my PC to answer. Too bad the author was such a tool about the protocol. I remember that he went out of his way to ensure that no other terminal program could speak zmodem with the freely available versions of DSZ or the Unix and VMS zmodem programs. In particular, he threatened the author of TE/2, a terminal program for OS/2 ca. 1990, with respect to that issue. From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 16 15:10:57 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: IBM 6360 8 inch drive In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010216135748.00a637d0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote: > Does anyone have any information on the type 6360 drive? It was > originally part of a word processor. It has one 37 pin female DB, one 25 > pin male DB and AC. Charlie, is this a single bare drive or a pair in a box? In any event, it is from the old IBM Display Writer. If a `pair in a box', I would guess that the 37 pin connector contained all of the usual data and control signals as was done with the Xerox 820 and 820 II and others. It is a fairly common pinout for external drives. No guesses on the 25 pin connector, though. - don > Thanks > > Charlie Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 > foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out: > The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo > and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > From elvey at hal.com Fri Feb 16 15:19:09 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Data I/O 212 EPROM programmer In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010216003107.00ac9af0@pop-server.stny.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi The disk drives are compatable with normal DOS 1.44M disk on the machine I have. As I recall, you may need a boot disk. I don't recall the number on the machine I worked with but it was one of the universal ones with a circular head and a retangular piece on the side. It used elastimer contacts to the socket adapters. Dwight On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, James E. Lynch wrote: > I am looking for information on the basic operation of the data i/o 212 > eprom programmer. In addition, what is the disk that plugs into the side of > this unit for? > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 16 17:55:00 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: IBM 6360 8 inch drive In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010216135748.00a637d0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010216185500.256f6f56@mailhost.intellistar.net> Charles, I THINK I have the same drive laying around here somewhere. If it's the same thing then it's a drive for an IBM display writer. AIR mine is a white box with two vertical HH 8" floppy drives. No idea about the pinout. Joe At 02:03 PM 2/16/01 -0500, you wrote: > Does anyone have any information on the type 6360 drive? It was >originally part of a word processor. It has one 37 pin female DB, one 25 >pin male DB and AC. > > Thanks > > Charlie Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 > foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out: > The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo > and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 16 17:43:31 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Corvus? In-Reply-To: <725.447T1700T4055681optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010216184331.256f716e@mailhost.intellistar.net> From what I can tell, the Corvus was an external hard drive that connected to a number of machines over some kind of network. I never used the Corvus stuff but I think it must have been relatively common at one time. I've seen a number of Corvus cards floating around. I've also seen one or two of the drives. I had/have some Corvus PCs cards and I did know where there were a couple of thin manuals for it. Joe At 06:45 AM 2/16/01 +0100, you wrote: >While going through the manuals for a Stride 460 last night, I finally >discovered what the LAN port was for - Omninet (Corvus). I know of exactly one >other machine with Omninet- the Research Machines Nimbus. Was this network >widespread once? What kind of topology did it employ? Are there NICs for any >other computers, perhaps even PCs? Any information is welcome. > >-- >En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > >The object of this game is to take an ordinary guy and make him into a Pimp >Master. You start off in your home town.You'll gradually build up cash and >prostitutes,until you wipe out the other pimps in town. Then,it's time to move >on to another,bigger city,and do the same. > Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software > > From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 16 16:49:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1526.447T900T14295013optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >> Amigas rock. A solid operating system with preemptive multitasking >>and a GUI in 256K of RAM on a floppy-based system...Amazing! > I've even been known to make my Amiga multi-user. I had 3 >serial ports installed on my A4000, and had my Atari-ST emulating a >VT-100 terminal hooked up to one of them. I then redirected all >console I/O from an AmigaDOS shell to the serial port. The person on >the VT-100 could do whatever they wished as long as the it didn't >involve graphics or something that opened up a new window. I even >had a small IRC program that could be run like that if the A4000 was >online. I did the same thing at a mate's house, so that we might sit with a VT-102 in the kitchen and play MP3s on the Amiga back in his room. To do it on the Amiga, I think one would type Newshell >AUX: , but I seem to remember that MS- DOS actually had a similar ability. What was the correct MS-DOS command line then? >>can't Microsoft get it right with thousands of programmers, 800+MHz >>processors, hundreds of megabytes of RAM, and gigabytes of disk space? > Because they lack orginality and would rather swallow up >whatever smaller companies actually come up with original ideas? >Less time spent on R&D that way. Amen. Just in the Amiga market, they swallowed Blue Ribbon, LZX (.CAB) and ASDG. A real waste, too. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Och har du en TV utan Scart, vilket nittionio procent faktiskt har, kommer de f?rmodligen att ringa fr?n Antikrundan. Martin Timell From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Feb 16 17:36:32 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <3A8D7E06.BEDD4EC3@hack.net> References: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> <14988.39918.404504.652872@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3A8D7E06.BEDD4EC3@hack.net> Message-ID: >Ah yes, I remember setting up a telnet server on my old Amigas like this >as well (as part of AS225). In fact, it was quite usable, especially if >you had that patch the would kill any requesters that popped up; >particularily those "Insert Volume" ones. All of the software I used was readily available on Aminet. A couple of friends of mine did the exact same thing with thier A3000 for the sole purpose of being able to be on IRC at the same time on a single dial-up. The only difference was that the other system they had hooked up to the A3000 was a Mac II-series machine. I loved the flexibility that the Multiface III gave me as far as it's high speed serial ports. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 16 17:51:28 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 References: <006801c097bd$c094e350$e3759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <00c001c09873$bc84e1a0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:01 PM Subject: Re: Sun SPARCstation 2 > From: Iggy Drougge > >CP/M and DOS don't even have GUIs. =? > > > Yep, saves space and runs like the wind. > > >The QNX demo is of course interesting, but won't run on a 4 MB machine, > since > >it is heavily compressed on that floppy and needs to unpack into RAM. > > > So, you want everything? ;) the only thing I know that has a gui > and can run in 4mb (barely ) is non-PS (VMS/Decwindows). You > still need at least 80mb of disk though. My AT&T 7300 has a GUI and iirc it only has 1meg A whole bunch of my old MAC's are 5 meg or less From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 16 18:22:09 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Corvus? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010216184331.256f716e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Joe wrote: > From what I can tell, the Corvus was an external hard drive that > connected to a number of machines over some kind of network. I never used > the Corvus stuff but I think it must have been relatively common at one > time. I've seen a number of Corvus cards floating around. I've also seen > one or two of the drives. I had/have some Corvus PCs cards and I did know > where there were a couple of thin manuals for it. > > Joe The DEC Rainbow - and likely some others - was used with the Corvus hard drive. I have a file of utilities that came from one. - don > > At 06:45 AM 2/16/01 +0100, you wrote: > >While going through the manuals for a Stride 460 last night, I finally > >discovered what the LAN port was for - Omninet (Corvus). I know of exactly > one > >other machine with Omninet- the Research Machines Nimbus. Was this network > >widespread once? What kind of topology did it employ? Are there NICs for any > >other computers, perhaps even PCs? Any information is welcome. > > > >-- > >En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > > >The object of this game is to take an ordinary guy and make him into a Pimp > >Master. You start off in your home town.You'll gradually build up cash and > >prostitutes,until you wipe out the other pimps in town. Then,it's time to > move > >on to another,bigger city,and do the same. > > Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software > > > > > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Feb 16 18:30:15 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Newton revival? References: <3.0.1.16.20010216185500.256f6f56@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <003501c09878$e75d4200$a1784ed8@DOMAIN> drats... I finally dug out my Apple Newton 130 from the move ephemera and it's not working with a fresh battery(s) replacement. I know it worked when packed 4 months ago and the batteries musta died in transit. I remember seeing something about jumpstarting these things back to life when left with dead cells for awhile but now can find nothing on the web... My Newton 2100 sprang back to life immediately with the same set of batteries that I'm trying to use in the 130... Replaced batteries and even hit the recessed reset button in the battery compartment. Nothing... Can anyone help? From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Feb 16 18:51:47 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: VMS 4.4 source code on microfiche In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010215211145.00a72180@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Hi Chuck, I have 5.5.1 on CD... Would that suffice? I am in the process of dismantling the ODS2 filesystem so I can copy the individual files to my Unix PC... It's not that I don't like VMS, I hate it :) Let me know... clint On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > > >While cleaning out a storage box I came across a padded > >envelope that contains 536 sheets of microfiche perporting > >to be the source code for VAX/VMS 4.4. Each sheet is > >numbered from 0001 to 0536, has a part number of AH-HP48A-SE > >and is marked "DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION" / > >"CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY". > > > Not uncommon, I think an unopened bag of fiche recently sold on Ebay for > something like $26. I've got 4.4 on fiche but would like to find 5.5-2 on > Microfiche, then I could figure out how the darn SII chip is supposed to > work on the KA640. > > --Chuck > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 16 21:02:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Newton revival? In-Reply-To: <003501c09878$e75d4200$a1784ed8@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.1.16.20010216185500.256f6f56@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010216220226.3317204e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Don, I had a similar problem with a Newton that I bought at an auction. I fiddled and fiddled with it but couldn't get it to turn on. I gave up on it and almost gave it away then it suddenly started working. It's worked fine ever since. If you find out about a jump startprocedure let me know. Joe At 07:30 PM 2/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >drats... I finally dug out my Apple Newton 130 from the move ephemera and >it's not working with a fresh battery(s) replacement. I know it worked when >packed 4 months ago and the batteries musta died in transit. > >I remember seeing something about jumpstarting these things back to life >when left with dead cells for awhile but now can find nothing on the web... >My Newton 2100 sprang back to life immediately with the same set of >batteries that I'm trying to use in the 130... > >Replaced batteries and even hit the recessed reset button in the battery >compartment. Nothing... > >Can anyone help? > > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 16 20:29:57 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <1526.447T900T14295013optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010216200942.01d42bc0@pc> At 11:49 PM 2/16/01 +0100, you wrote: >>>can't Microsoft get it right with thousands of programmers, 800+MHz >>>processors, hundreds of megabytes of RAM, and gigabytes of disk space? >>Because they lack orginality and would rather swallow up >>whatever smaller companies actually come up with original ideas? >>Less time spent on R&D that way. > >Amen. Just in the Amiga market, they swallowed Blue Ribbon, LZX (.CAB) and >ASDG. A real waste, too. Blue Ribbon happily sold out to Microsoft. Keep in mind that a "big" Amiga company was typically smaller than any Microsoft team on a sub-project, so one can hardly cry foul when a product was swallowed never to be heard from again. I'm not aware of any connection between ASDG /Elastic Reality and Microsoft. ASDG sold out to Avid... again, quite willingly. Their products were barely marketed there and languished. I'm not aware of the connection between .CAB and LZX. Did they buy a technology or just hire the person? Another Amiga/Microsoft connection was the RIFF file format, which was IFF with Intel endian. There's also the interesting twist of Microsoft and Amigoid company Hash Enterprises. Microsoft acquired them, tried to work with them and failed, and miraculously disgorged them. Microsoft wanted their animation tools to make idiocies like "Bob" and the dancing paper clip. They live happily today at www.hash.com . The "Martin's Minutes" section of their web site is a true web treasure. See June 14, 2000 #305 for a bit of his story about getting into bed with Microsoft. - John From foo at siconic.com Fri Feb 16 21:26:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <00c001c09873$bc84e1a0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Mike Kenzie wrote: > My AT&T 7300 has a GUI and iirc it only has 1meg But if I'm right it's really a text-based GUI. Correct? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 16 21:31:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010216200942.01d42bc0@pc> Message-ID: <1487.448T800T2714757optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 11:49 PM 2/16/01 +0100, you wrote: >>>>can't Microsoft get it right with thousands of programmers, 800+MHz >>>>processors, hundreds of megabytes of RAM, and gigabytes of disk space? >>>Because they lack orginality and would rather swallow up >>>whatever smaller companies actually come up with original ideas? >>>Less time spent on R&D that way. >> >>Amen. Just in the Amiga market, they swallowed Blue Ribbon, LZX (.CAB) and >>ASDG. A real waste, too. >Blue Ribbon happily sold out to Microsoft. Keep in mind that >a "big" Amiga company was typically smaller than any >Microsoft team on a sub-project, so one can hardly cry foul >when a product was swallowed never to be heard from again. Of course, who can say no to green pieces of paper? I'd probably do the same thing. At least it was a nice gesture of M$ to release Bars'n'Pipes semi- publicly. >I'm not aware of any connection between ASDG /Elastic Reality >and Microsoft. ASDG sold out to Avid... again, quite willingly. >Their products were barely marketed there and languished. Really? I thought those two were M$ victims. >I'm not aware of the connection between .CAB and LZX. Did they >buy a technology or just hire the person? They certainly hired the person, don't know who actually owns the technology. >Another Amiga/Microsoft connection was the RIFF file format, >which was IFF with Intel endian. Hmmmmm. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ %blow bash: fg: %blow: no such job From optimus at canit.se Fri Feb 16 22:56:19 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: On the topic of old Suns... Message-ID: <347.448T950T3564443optimus@canit.se> There's been some talk about old Suns recently, and I thought this might be interesting. It's a download of SunOS 4.1.1, available at http://sun3arc.krupp.net/. Mind you, they seem awfully suspicious. Why so interested in my identd? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon X Campaign Against / \ HTML Mail! From bwit at pobox.com Sat Feb 17 04:57:31 2001 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sun SPARCstation 2 In-Reply-To: References: <00c001c09873$bc84e1a0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010217045659.00b1eb48@mail.ruffboy.com> At 07:26 PM 2/16/2001 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > > My AT&T 7300 has a GUI and iirc it only has 1meg > >But if I'm right it's really a text-based GUI. So, it's a TUI? :-) -------------------------------------------------------- "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." -- Mark Twain From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Feb 17 07:53:26 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Microsoft / Amiga connections In-Reply-To: <1487.448T800T2714757optimus@canit.se> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010216200942.01d42bc0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010217075105.02a61d00@pc> At 04:31 AM 2/17/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>I'm not aware of any connection between ASDG /Elastic Reality >>and Microsoft. ASDG sold out to Avid... again, quite willingly. >>Their products were barely marketed there and languished. > >Really? I thought those two were M$ victims. 3D software maker Softimage was acquired by Microsoft, managed poorly for several years, then sold to Avid. That's probably the connection you're thinking of. >>I'm not aware of the connection between .CAB and LZX. Did they >>buy a technology or just hire the person? >They certainly hired the person, don't know who actually owns the technology. Who was that? - John From claudew at videotron.ca Sat Feb 17 09:26:32 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sparc2...FAILURE: No Trap Taken, Exp Trap Type - 00000009...Solved...simms in wrong banks...now more questions... Message-ID: <002501c098f6$01c469c0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Ok so it was the RAM in the wrong simms sockets. Someone had pulled so simms and what was left (32M) was not in bank starting at 0.... Found out the proper bank scheme in the Sun hardware faq...(lots of reading again...less time with wife and kid....) Now system starts up and tests memory. Reports 48 Megs (added 16 Megs so all normal) but tests just one? Why? So now I can get in the diags and stuff.... But more questions...(maybe ill answer these by myself again...) I have a type5 keyboard and a Mouse Systems Sun Mouse 370-1170-01 But system reports it cant identify the keyboard. I used a MAC/Apple serial cable to connect the kayboard. Leds blink for a second when system turned on but after then I cant toogle the leds on the keyboard keys by pressing the Caps Lock and Scroll Lock etc...keys... What about going a bit further with this? What should I attempt to run on this? You can suppose Ill find 4 more 4M/30pin/parity Simms somewhere here and end up with 64M...(not found yet but looking...) I think 3 chip simms wont work correct? Should I try? Or just hopeless? Also I think the frame buffer is a GX (?) Ill build an adapter for a VGA/SVGA monitor when I find a 3W13 connector somewhere here.... Anyone? Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com al Message ----- From: Claude.W To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 9:31 AM Subject: Help me? Sun newbie with non-booting Sparc2...FAILURE: No Trap Taken, Exp Trap Type - 00000009 I am reposting this cause I never got it back so I guess it never made it for some reason... Hi Well I found one, I had been asking for one on the list and got no real offers so I went out to this place and found a sun sparc 2 for $20 canadian as-is. I know it not fast but still...its a sun... Looked complete but was very dirty. Cleaned it off now very nice.... Unit is a SunSparc 2 model 147. Had a floppy, HD Maxtor LXT213SY (200 Megs I guess...), and what looks like 8 X Simms of I am not sure how many megs...nothing hacked or missing... Video card (yup one in there) is a Sun Microsystems S4LEGO (?) I tried hooking up a type5 keyboard I had lying around and a Sun mouse...Keyboard leds lite up and power on and I get a beep but after that...cap lock and other leds will not toogle on/off with pressed...so... I did not have a monitor or adapter to connect a monitor to the frame buffer so... After reading for quite a while in the sun faqs I removed the frame buffer and connected a Wyse60 to serial port A and got: (well at least something' coming out of the serial port...) WARNING : Unable to determine keyboard type FAILURE: No Trap Taken, Exp Trap Type - 00000009 I have repaired lots of logic and computer boards for many years at the component level but know close to nothing about Suns...any help appreciated.... If you can tell me more about this, it would be appreciated... This will be much faster getting answers from someone than reading through tons of Sun hardware faqs I guess... Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Feb 17 10:49:14 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup Message-ID: <200102171649.IAA10636@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Well, I didn't have enough money for the Mac 512K because I went and picked up a Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40, mint in box, with plotter also mint in box. Everything works. Anyone out there familiar with these? I have all the manuals, but I'm just curious what uses people have found for them. Neat device, resembles a TS 1500, 31-character 1 line LCD screen. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Where there's a will, there's a probate. ----------------------------------- From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Feb 17 11:05:28 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Sparc2...FAILURE: No Trap Taken, Exp Trap Type - 00000009...Solved...simms in wrong banks...now more questions... References: <002501c098f6$01c469c0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <3A8EAF58.607D2B69@mainecoon.com> "Claude.W" wrote: > Now system starts up and tests memory. Reports 48 Megs (added 16 Megs so all > normal) but tests just one? Why? There's an EEPROM setting which specifies how many megs to check during self-test. #-megs-selftest or something like. It's usually set to one on older SPARCs because the time taken to test much more than that approaches a geological scale... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From optimus at canit.se Sat Feb 17 12:16:35 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Microsoft / Amiga connections In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010217075105.02a61d00@pc> Message-ID: <1120.448T1750T11565263optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 04:31 AM 2/17/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>>I'm not aware of any connection between ASDG /Elastic Reality >>>and Microsoft. ASDG sold out to Avid... again, quite willingly. >>>Their products were barely marketed there and languished. >> >>Really? I thought those two were M$ victims. >3D software maker Softimage was acquired by Microsoft, managed >poorly for several years, then sold to Avid. That's probably >the connection you're thinking of. Another SGI firm, then. >>>I'm not aware of the connection between .CAB and LZX. Did they >>>buy a technology or just hire the person? >>They certainly hired the person, don't know who actually owns the >>technology. >Who was that? Can't remember, I'm content with LhA. The copyright blurb says Data Compression Technologies of Canada. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. S? ja. Forts?tt bara som du g?r s? kommer du i s?kerhet, och raka dig n?r du kommer hem s? ser du kanske inte ut som en apa. Du kan ju leva ett ombonat liv, t?lja tr?gubbar eller n?t s?nt. Lupin III till Jigen, Lupin den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From foo at siconic.com Sat Feb 17 14:54:34 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:43 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <200102171649.IAA10636@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Well, I didn't have enough money for the Mac 512K because I went and > picked up a Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40, mint in box, with > plotter also mint in box. Everything works. Anyone out there familiar > with these? I have all the manuals, but I'm just curious what uses > people have found for them. Neat device, resembles a TS 1500, > 31-character 1 line LCD screen. Much, much, much better score. Mac 512K's are common as dirt ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From gregorym at cadvision.com Sat Feb 17 16:19:20 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup References: <200102171649.IAA10636@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <01cf01c0992f$acc247a0$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup > Well, I didn't have enough money for the Mac 512K because I went and picked > up a Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40, mint in box, with plotter also > mint in box. Everything works. Anyone out there familiar with these? I have > all the manuals, but I'm just curious what uses people have found for them. > Neat device, resembles a TS 1500, 31-character 1 line LCD screen. > They make a nice programmable calculator; the built-in BASIC is pretty good, and they run forever on AA batteries, so you can take them with you to job sites. The major problem is a lack of disk drives, so a cable to connect the CC-40 to a 99/4A or other computer to download programs is a good idea. I'm assuming every serious computer collector has several "mint-in-box" 99/4As under the stairs : v ) If you can find them, there were also several good cartridges made for the CC-40 (like Statistics, Advanced Math routines, Expense Account records, etc). But they're rare, at least up here in the Great White North. Cheers, Mark. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Feb 17 16:47:45 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Feb 17, 1 12:54:34 pm" Message-ID: <200102172247.OAA12000@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Well, I didn't have enough money for the Mac 512K because I went and > > picked up a Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40, mint in box, with > > plotter also mint in box. Everything works. Anyone out there familiar > > with these? I have all the manuals, but I'm just curious what uses > > people have found for them. Neat device, resembles a TS 1500, > > 31-character 1 line LCD screen. > > Much, much, much better score. Mac 512K's are common as dirt ;) Really? Someone was telling me they were somewhat hard to find. I know the original Mac 128s are quite rare -- what about the Fat Mac variety? It's okay because I'm happy with that Mac Plus (thanks again :-) and my SE/30 in my Compact Mac corral. So I'll live. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The best of all: God is with us. -- John Wesley ---------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Feb 17 16:54:07 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <01cf01c0992f$acc247a0$0200a8c0@marvin> from Mark Gregory at "Feb 17, 1 03:19:20 pm" Message-ID: <200102172254.OAA10994@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > They make a nice programmable calculator; the built-in BASIC is pretty > good, and they run forever on AA batteries, so you can take them with you > to job sites. The major problem is a lack of disk drives, so a cable to > connect the CC-40 to a 99/4A or other computer to download programs is a > good idea. I'm assuming every serious computer collector has several > "mint-in-box" 99/4As under the stairs : v ) Alas, I don't :-) but I have two Tomy Tutors, even better! :-P I saw that "Hex-Bus" interface in the back. I haven't really gone through the manual yet, but I did some web searching for a pinout or description and can't really find any except for mentions of TI's apocryphal interfaces and software. Hooking it up to my C64 would be cool if I could somehow turn it into a regular DB-25 or equivalent and plug it in the C64's user port. Suggestions? > If you can find them, there were also several good cartridges made for the > CC-40 (like Statistics, Advanced Math routines, Expense Account records, > etc). But they're rare, at least up here in the Great White North. No, no software :-( -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Humor is a drug which it's the fashion to abuse. -- William Gilbert -------- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Feb 17 17:11:26 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: FS: VAXStation 2000 w/Ultrix installed Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010217150756.01ec8b70@208.226.86.10> This thing boots Ultrix, has an RD54 (noisy), and the "system shelf" bottom. There is a third party memory expansion board it in it (10MB total I believe) First offer over $20 takes it, otherwise its best offer by 5PM PST Monday evening. Its FOB Sunnyvale, CA. --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 17 17:09:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup References: <200102172247.OAA12000@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <002401c09936$ac428c20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Here in Denver, you can go to any of a dozen thrift stores and buy nearly any sort of older MAC for $5 upwards, though few are as high as $50. Oddly enough, the newer decked-out ones are often quite inexpensive, while the older classic mac's are high, e.g. $25 or so. I've yet to go out on any day when I couldn't come back with at least a dozen mac's though. I've yet to take one on, however. I don't even accept them when they're offered for free. It's too frustrating getting the boxes open. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Santee swap meet wrapup > > > Well, I didn't have enough money for the Mac 512K because I went and > > > picked up a Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40, mint in box, with > > > plotter also mint in box. Everything works. Anyone out there familiar > > > with these? I have all the manuals, but I'm just curious what uses > > > people have found for them. Neat device, resembles a TS 1500, > > > 31-character 1 line LCD screen. > > > > Much, much, much better score. Mac 512K's are common as dirt ;) > > Really? Someone was telling me they were somewhat hard to find. I know the > original Mac 128s are quite rare -- what about the Fat Mac variety? > > It's okay because I'm happy with that Mac Plus (thanks again :-) and my > SE/30 in my Compact Mac corral. So I'll live. :-P > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- The best of all: God is with us. -- John Wesley ---------------------------- > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 17 12:37:14 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <002401c09936$ac428c20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010217233834.XGRE18941.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Subject: Re: Santee swap meet wrapup > Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 16:09:25 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Here in Denver, you can go to any of a dozen thrift stores and buy nearly any > sort of older MAC for $5 upwards, though few are as high as $50. Oddly enough, > the newer decked-out ones are often quite inexpensive, while the older classic > mac's are high, e.g. $25 or so. I've yet to go out on any day when I couldn't > come back with at least a dozen mac's though. I've yet to take one on, however. > I don't even accept them when they're offered for free. It's too frustrating > getting the boxes open. > > Dick Dick and everybody else. I wish that's common here but I was only lucky to find LC III for 5 cdn w/o both drives, no keyboard and no mouse. Centris 610 4mb w/ both drives, a broken pin on ADB mouse for 20 cdn. I'll also get performa 466 in trade deal but no keyboard and mouse. Only thing I can't find locally any are for used ADB keyboards and mice. Once I was in rochester NY, dropped in a private owned trifty shop and saw tons of Macs parts. Even C.R. chain store has apple parts. And bad news is that I'll be not able to visit USA again for years because my best friend just moved few states west. Sigh! Parts wanted: Looking for 68882 rated 25 or 33MHz. Ebay does have few from time to time but shipping and cost of it is too high still, even the straight 68040 is reasonable but hassle to obtaining one after stressful bidding wars is over is horrific. Ditto to ethernet cards. Therefore, I prefer to deal with yours one on one directly by email or mail to get these desired parts. If you have these or one of any parts, contact me. Cheers, Wizard From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 17 17:56:43 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: FS: VAXStation 2000 w/Ultrix installed In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010217150756.01ec8b70@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > This thing boots Ultrix, has an RD54 (noisy), and the "system shelf" > bottom. There is a third party memory expansion board it in it (10MB total > I believe) > > First offer over $20 takes it, otherwise its best offer by 5PM PST Monday > evening. Its FOB Sunnyvale, CA. > > --Chuck Sure be nice to get a TK-50 STABACKUP tape! - don From optimus at canit.se Sat Feb 17 17:38:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <002401c09936$ac428c20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <1017.449T600T384725optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >Here in Denver, you can go to any of a dozen thrift stores and buy nearly any >sort of older MAC for $5 upwards, though few are as high as $50. Oddly >enough, the newer decked-out ones are often quite inexpensive, while the >older classic mac's are high, e.g. $25 or so. I've yet to go out on any day >when I couldn't come back with at least a dozen mac's though. I've yet to >take one on, however. I don't even accept them when they're offered for free. > It's too frustrating getting the boxes open. Any Mac but the compact ones are dirt-easy to open. I became very appreciative of that a while ago when I found a IIcx trapped in a cage, jammed under a big telly. Thanks to the easy opening procedure, I could nevertheless open it up through the holes in the mesh and extract NIC, GFX card and SIMMs. If only every machine were as easily opened as a Mac or PS/2. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant. Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Feb 17 20:47:48 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: FS: VAXStation 2000 w/Ultrix installed References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010217150756.01ec8b70@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A8F37D4.EF3D62D0@heathers.stdio.com> Still have the VAXstation? Chuck McManis wrote: > This thing boots Ultrix, has an RD54 (noisy), and the "system shelf" > bottom. There is a third party memory expansion board it in it (10MB total > I believe) > > First offer over $20 takes it, otherwise its best offer by 5PM PST Monday > evening. Its FOB Sunnyvale, CA. > > --Chuck From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Feb 17 22:53:02 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: TI CC-40 (Was: Santee swap meet wrapup) References: <200102171649.IAA10636@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <01cf01c0992f$acc247a0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <02b101c09966$ad37c0c0$2415f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > They make a nice programmable calculator; the built-in BASIC is pretty > good, and they run forever on AA batteries, so you can take them with you > to job sites. The major problem is a lack of disk drives, so a cable to > connect the CC-40 to a 99/4A or other computer to download programs is a > good idea. I'm assuming every serious computer collector has several > "mint-in-box" 99/4As under the stairs : v ) > > If you can find them, there were also several good cartridges made for the > CC-40 (like Statistics, Advanced Math routines, Expense Account records, > etc). But they're rare, at least up here in the Great White North. I know someone who has (or at least had) a large number of CC-40 cartridges new in the box. They types are: Electrical Engineering Statistics Games Memo Processor Finance Math I believe his price is $5 each. He also has the following accessories at various prices: RS232 units with 110 VAC wall adapter 300 Baud Modem units 16K Ram cartridges He also had a number of CC-40 units new in the box. His price was $25, or $30 if configured with 18K of RAM. If anyone wants his e-mail address please contact me off the list. -W From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Feb 18 01:19:34 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: TI CC-40 In-Reply-To: <02b101c09966$ad37c0c0$2415f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <200102171649.IAA10636@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <01cf01c0992f$acc247a0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010217225358.00b834f0@pacbell.net> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>I saw that "Hex-Bus" interface in the back. I haven't really gone through >>the manual yet, but I did some web searching for a pinout or description >>and can't really find any except for mentions of TI's apocryphal interfaces >>and software. Hooking it up to my C64 would be cool if I could somehow turn >>it into a regular DB-25 or equivalent and plug it in the C64's user port. >>Suggestions? There is one really great source of technical information on the CC40 and its very close younger brother, the TI-74. Unfortunately, the scanned images are in a "Visioneer Paper Port" format. The free viewer is online at the same site, but it is too bad they aren't PDFs. I believe the following link is the right one, although it isn't responding right now. I hope it is just temporarily down and not gone. ftp://209.172.89.40/Hexbus_CC40_TI74/ If it is away for good, I sucked down a lot of the files anyway, so if you want hard-core info on the hexbus (and the closely related "dock bus" on the TI-74), I can set it along to you. It is a nicely designed bus (for its purpose, given the technology of the time). The basic idea is this: a 4b data bus with two handshake signals. All wires are driven open drain -- it is a true bus, not a point-to-point repeater arrangement. It is an async bus, and different peripherals can talk at differents speeds. The protocol is such that the transfer speed is determined by the slower party in the transaction. Say there are two high speed members and one slow one. The protocol speed will be slow if the source or target is the slow device, but in the case of fast->fast, the protocol is slow only until the point that the slow one realizes it isn't being addressed, then the speed picks back up again. There are some constraints on minimum and maximum handshake transitions (on the order of 8 microseconds minimum, a few milliseconds maximum), so it could easily all be managed in software. The TI calculators are a combination of dedicated bus controller and software interface. The processor the CC40 and TI-74 (and 95) use is an interesting one; quite different than many other 8b micros. Here is a link to a PDF describing the whole family of chips. The PDF is quite massive, and most of it goes into detail on configuring the myriad on-chip peripherals that exist on various members of the family. Go to section 16, which starts on page 485, to get to the instruction set. http://www-s.ti.com/sc/psheets/spnu127a/spnu127a.pdf Here are some other links, in no particular order. Some are much more informative than others. http://pw1.netcom.com/~bcostin/cc_ticc40.htm http://www.99er.net/cc40.html http://people.delphi.com/eicher/index.html http://people.delphi.com/eicher/CC40C.BIN (although it says .BIN, it is a text file, and quite informative) http://www.hightechsolutions.com/ti7495.htm http://www.zock.com/8-Bit/D_CC40.HTML http://www.rskey.org/cc40.htm http://home.debitel.net/user/groener1/comp_011.htm#CC-40 http://home.debitel.net/user/groener1/comp_011.htm#TI 74 http://members.aol.com/swim4home/cc40.html http://www.heimcomputer.de/comp/tizubehoer.html http://www.computingmuseum.com/museum/tipc.htm http://www.99er.net/ti74art.html http://home.inforamp.net/~crown/TI/ti.html#TI 74 BASICALC http://192.132.34.17/pub/electronics/microprocs/TMS7000/assemblers/ Finally, here is another uP based on a lot of the same technology as the CC40 and the TI-74: http://www.computingmuseum.com/museum/exl100.htm If you have any other good URL's you've found, please pass them on. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sun Feb 18 03:41:50 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Microsoft / Amiga connections In-Reply-To: <1120.448T1750T11565263optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Feb 17, 2001 07:16:35 pm" Message-ID: <20010218094201Z435889-5766+26@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > John Foust skrev: > > >At 04:31 AM 2/17/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >>>I'm not aware of any connection between ASDG /Elastic Reality > >>>and Microsoft. ASDG sold out to Avid... again, quite willingly. > >>>Their products were barely marketed there and languished. > >> > >>Really? I thought those two were M$ victims. > > >3D software maker Softimage was acquired by Microsoft, managed > >poorly for several years, then sold to Avid. That's probably > >the connection you're thinking of. > > Another SGI firm, then. > Not exactly, SGI owns Alias|Wavefront which is the main competitor to SoftImage. The one main benefit of SoftImage being bought out by Microsoft is it started both companies moving their products to cheaper platforms. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Feb 18 08:52:53 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: FS: VAXStation 2000 w/Ultrix installed References: Message-ID: <001701c099ba$79d9fd70$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: Re: FS: VAXStation 2000 w/Ultrix installed > Sure be nice to get a TK-50 STABACKUP tape! I have a stack of TK-50's with ultrix 3-3.2 on them. The fellow I got them from called and said he found another 50 tapes with various stuff on them. Would there be interest in these tapes? From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Feb 18 10:19:44 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: HP Entria Message-ID: Greetings and Happy Daytona 500 to all, Yesterday, at the CU auction, I picked up a 'HP Entria' model number "C3232A"... >From what I can find on the web this is a color Xterminal. On the bottom it says "color - Maximum Resolution 1280x1024"... BNC (10base2), RJ45 (10baseT), serial, parallel, mouse, keyboard, HD15 video connector. Does anyone have a power supply (20VAC, 2Amp, 4 pin rectangular plug)? Any information? Does this require a code load from the host, or is the code resident? Is the HD15 connector SVGA? Thanks, clint PS I'll accept offers if someone wants to buy it also... It's pretty small and light so shipping shouldn't be outrageous... From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Feb 18 10:48:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: SOL-20 front label In-Reply-To: <001701c099ba$79d9fd70$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: <001701c099ba$79d9fd70$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Thanks to Sellam, my SOL-20 is not complete with the front panel label! He scanned an original in two parts at 200dpi and I printed them on glossy photo stock at 1440dpi on my Epson 740 and spliced them back together. Comparing the output to the photograph on the cover of 'The Small Computer Catalog' it came out pretty good, though the catalog photograph is more orange-colored on the 'Processor Technology' logo than what mine came out as. Still, it looks a lot better than no label at all! Anyone that wishes a copy of the image where I combined the two seperate scans side/side so they would print out on a single piece of 8.5 x 11 photo stock just drop me a note off-list and I'll be happy to send it to you. It's a little over 800k in size. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From james at cs.york.ac.uk Sun Feb 18 11:19:22 2001 From: james at cs.york.ac.uk (James Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Newton revival? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010216220226.3317204e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On 16 Feb, Joe wrote: > Don, > > I had a similar problem with a Newton that I bought at an auction. I > fiddled and fiddled with it but couldn't get it to turn on. I gave up on it > and almost gave it away then it suddenly started working. It's worked fine > ever since. If you find out about a jump startprocedure let me know. i had this problem with my omp. i found this web page which helped. ymmv http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/seanl/newton/MP100Power.html -- J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From Garrett.Holthaus at colorado.edu Sun Feb 18 11:48:09 2001 From: Garrett.Holthaus at colorado.edu (Garrett W. Holthaus) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 has faulty display Message-ID: Hello, I collect old (relatively speaking) computers, and I recently acquired an Epson HX-20 laptop. It worked fine for a while, but now the display has some problems. It looks like maybe the display driver is refreshing the screen improperly--I see a bunch of flickering vertical lines. After the computer has been off for a while, when I turn it on the display works fine for about a minute, and then goes bad. Does anyone know what's wrong with the unit, or where I can get a schematic? Thanks, Garrett From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 18 13:08:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 has faulty display In-Reply-To: from "Garrett W. Holthaus" at Feb 18, 1 10:48:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2591 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010218/6668e74d/attachment.ksh From itq at hetnet.nl Thu Feb 8 16:34:32 2001 From: itq at hetnet.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Stuff available in Arnhem, The Netherlands Message-ID: <20010218210412.8001136CB6@rhea.worldonline.nl> Friends, A number of items requires a new home: The following stuff belongs to a charity and it would be nice if they got something for it - Brother WP-1 Text processing system in working condition. Screen, single floppy drive and printer all in one. - Toshiba 5 1/4" external floppy disk drive Model PA 7225E. The external 18V DC 0.6A power supply is missing. Available free - Qume daisywheel printer from Decmate III system with spare wheels and ink ribbons. - Wang system unit PC-S5-3 with the following cards: PM101 IBM Mono Emulation PM029 Winch.CNTR-2 The unit has a 5 1/4" floppy and a hard disk - Wang display Mon-1240 from another system - RSX11M manuals Version 4.1 Wim From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Feb 18 14:13:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <200102172247.OAA12000@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Sellam Ismail at "Feb 17, 1 12:54:34 pm" Message-ID: >> Much, much, much better score. Mac 512K's are common as dirt ;) > >Really? Someone was telling me they were somewhat hard to find. I know the >original Mac 128s are quite rare -- what about the Fat Mac variety? Cheapest 512k sold recently on eBay (and more than a dozen are in the sold database for last 30 days) was $40, top price was about $150. A 512k is nice to have. 128k is better. 128k that doesn't say 128k (ie the original mac) is even better. From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 18 16:52:53 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: FS: VAXStation 2000 w/Ultrix installed In-Reply-To: <001701c099ba$79d9fd70$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Maslin" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: FS: VAXStation 2000 w/Ultrix installed > > > Sure be nice to get a TK-50 STABACKUP tape! > > I have a stack of TK-50's with ultrix 3-3.2 on them. The > fellow I got them from called and said he found another 50 > tapes with various stuff on them. > > Would there be interest in these tapes? > I am certainly interested in a set(?) to install ultrix 3-3.2, and perhaps a few related tapes. - don From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 18 19:57:04 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: HP Entria In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010218205704.3d97c862@mailhost.intellistar.net> Clint, At 09:19 AM 2/18/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Greetings and Happy Daytona 500 to all, > >Yesterday, at the CU auction, I picked up a 'HP Entria' model >number "C3232A"... > >From what I can find on the web this is a color Xterminal. On the >bottom it says "color - Maximum Resolution 1280x1024"... BNC (10base2), >RJ45 (10baseT), serial, parallel, mouse, keyboard, HD15 video connector. > >Does anyone have a power supply (20VAC, 2Amp, 4 pin rectangular >plug)? Yeap, it's an X-terminal. I've seen a ton of them in the scrap places. Most get scrapped after the memory is pulled. I think the power supply is the same as that used for some of the HP printers and other devices. It's 20 VAC with a center tap and one ground wire. I don't have the pin out but you can open it up and find out quickly by looking at which leads go to the retifier diodes. Any information? Does this require a code load from the >host, or is the code resident? Is the HD15 connector SVGA? Don't know. I never botherd to hook one up. Joe > >Thanks, >clint > >PS I'll accept offers if someone wants to buy it also... It's pretty >small and light so shipping shouldn't be outrageous... > > > > From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Feb 18 19:24:19 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: HP Entria Message-ID: <9a.10442183.27c1cfc3@aol.com> In a message dated 2/18/01 5:02:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > . I think the power supply is > the same as that used for some of the HP printers and other devices. It's > 20 VAC with a center tap and one ground wire. I don't have the pin out but > you can open it up and find out quickly by looking at which leads go to the > retifier diodes. > > > I bought some of the 20V wallwarts from HP directly and they were about $5.00 each, new. I bet this was because they used them forever. Paxton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010218/643be3ac/attachment.html From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Feb 18 19:36:23 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: MVII DIAG CUST References: <963.434T1500T2405409optimus@canit.se> <3A7C4A87.E3CBC1AF@mainecoon.com> <009301c09631$92daca70$71f2fea9@dellhare> <3A8C21AF.7BEAF12F@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3A907897.8E682281@arrl.net> Have you located this diskette yet? I just opened my set but it consists of six rx50s, *MVII DIAG MAINT RX50* -1987. Let me know if you still need this. Vol 1 is labeled BL-GLLAJ-DN. nick o emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Hi, > Anybody out here has the MicroVax II Diagnostics on RX50 ? > I somehow lost the first one of the 4 piece set :-( > > Cheers & thanks, > emanuel From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Feb 18 20:23:14 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Corvus? References: <725.447T1700T4055681optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <200102190223.f1J2NF505005@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Iggy Drougge" wrote: > While going through the manuals for a Stride 460 last night, I > finally discovered what the LAN port was for - Omninet (Corvus). I > know of exactly one other machine with Omninet- the Research > Machines Nimbus. Was this network widespread once? What kind of > topology did it employ? Are there NICs for any other computers, > perhaps even PCs? Any information is welcome. I'm not sure I would call it widespread, but it was significant enough that the DEC marketeers working on the Pro 350/380 saw it as something they would have to compete against with Ethernet. (Ref: presentation about DEC's entries into the PC marketplace, at the Computer Museum History Center sometime in 1997; sorry, don't have any other details handy at present.) In the mid-1980s and into the 1990s there were a number of competing physical network media: Ethernet, ARCNET, IBM token-ring, Proteon token-ring (Pronet), Starlan, Omninet and other things too. Some of the other physical media had as a selling point that they were cheaper to install than Ethernet: cheaper network interface adapters and cheaper cabling. Anyway, back to Corvus. Corvus got its start selling parallel-TTL-interface hard disks for the Apple ][. A hard disk was more expensive than an Apple, so they also sold a multiplexer option that allowed the connection of up to eight computers' controllers to one hard disk, and IIRC you could have two multiplexers between a computer and its hard disk so you could actually have 64 computers on one hard disk. Corvus also made hard disk controllers for other hardware: I know I've seen one for S-100, and have read of one for the PDP-11, and that there were others. Same parallel interface. Now, imagine a sort of star-topology network strung together with 34-pin ribbon cable. Imagine distance limitations, and imagine stringing all that cable and trying to keep it from turning into a tangle as computers get moved around. Not fun. So the folks at Corvus came up with Omninet, a 1Mbit/s twisted-pair serial bus (using RS-422 levels) that could support a couple hundred addressable devices. You could either access your parallel hard disk via a computer that was attached both to it and to the Omninet, or via an Omninet Disk Server, which was really a dedicated computer with an Omninet interface and a Corvus parallel hard disk interface. Corvus made Omninet interfaces for a number of different computers. Apple ][, IBM PC, DEC Rainbow, Apple Macintosh, and I don't remember what else; those are the ones I've seen recently. They also designed an Omninet interface into their microcomputer offering, the Corvus Concept. Omninet cabling was cheap: a single twisted pair bus. Connecting to it was cheap: you could buy the official Omninet tap box and node cable (two wires terminating in a mini phone jack) or you could just splice your node cable (two wires) to the two wires of the two wires of the bus pair. Omninet bus termination was a resistor across the ends of the pair. There was also a later Omninet II network that ran at 4Mb/s, but I think that involved a two- or three-pair bus. The only interfaces I've ever seen for Omninet II were IBM PC ISA cards. NEC also had a preliminary data sheet for an IC (uPD72105) that did Omninet in their 1987 Microcomputer Products data book, volume 2. -Frank McConnell From optimus at canit.se Sun Feb 18 18:58:28 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Microsoft / Amiga connections In-Reply-To: <20010218094201Z435889-5766+26@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1376.450T1400T1184913optimus@canit.se> Mark Green skrev: >> John Foust skrev: >> >> >At 04:31 AM 2/17/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >>>I'm not aware of any connection between ASDG /Elastic Reality >> >>>and Microsoft. ASDG sold out to Avid... again, quite willingly. >> >>>Their products were barely marketed there and languished. >> >> >> >>Really? I thought those two were M$ victims. >> >> >3D software maker Softimage was acquired by Microsoft, managed >> >poorly for several years, then sold to Avid. That's probably >> >the connection you're thinking of. >> >> Another SGI firm, then. >Not exactly, SGI owns Alias|Wavefront which is the main >competitor to SoftImage. The one main benefit of SoftImage >being bought out by Microsoft is it started both companies >moving their products to cheaper platforms. I didn't mean that they were owned by SGI, but that they specialised in SGI products. As for moving their products to cheaper platforms, is that any advantage? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. There is also a high quality Fortran from DEC for our engineers, and of course the whole C and LISP programming environments for CS students and other software developers, plus a set of powerful text manipulation utilities like sed, grep, awk, lex, and yacc, whose functions should be obvious from their names. Frank da Cruz & Christine Gianone - "THE DECSYSTEM-20 AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY (1977-1988)" From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sun Feb 18 21:12:40 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Microsoft / Amiga connections In-Reply-To: <1376.450T1400T1184913optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Feb 19, 2001 01:58:28 am" Message-ID: <20010219031246Z435417-5768+271@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > >> > >> >3D software maker Softimage was acquired by Microsoft, managed > >> >poorly for several years, then sold to Avid. That's probably > >> >the connection you're thinking of. > >> > >> Another SGI firm, then. > > >Not exactly, SGI owns Alias|Wavefront which is the main > >competitor to SoftImage. The one main benefit of SoftImage > >being bought out by Microsoft is it started both companies > >moving their products to cheaper platforms. > > I didn't mean that they were owned by SGI, but that they specialised in SGI > products. > As for moving their products to cheaper platforms, is that any advantage? > You bet. Ten years ago the hardware for a typical animation station was around $75,000 (a high end SGI), then you put around $75,000 worth of software on it, for a total or around $150,000. I now teach at a media school, where I have a class of 60 students learning 3D modeling and animation. I need around 30 stations for this class, at $150,000 each that's a significant investment. Moving to a PC based platform at least reduces the hardware costs. Over the past decade the cost of Alias and SoftImage software has also decreased. The concentration on high priced systems is basically how SGI got Alias for a bargin price (this was almost 10 years ago, so its close to on topic). Since the hardware and software were so expensive, very few customers could pay cash for their systems. Alias sold packaged systems, both the hardware and software, and provided financing internally for these system. They basically got greedy and instead of using a third party for customer financing, they did it themselves. When the economy slowed down at the beginning of the 1990s, their customers couldn't make payments, which caused considerable cash flow problems for Alias. They ended up with a lot of returned systems that they couldn't sell. At that time Alias was SGI's largest customer, so SGI would be hit hard if Alias went under. So, they basically stepped in a bought a significant part of Alias and put in their own management team. I bought four 310VGX's at the Alias fire sale, which was actually conducted by SGI. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 18 20:18:46 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <200102172247.OAA12000@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Much, much, much better score. Mac 512K's are common as dirt ;) > > Really? Someone was telling me they were somewhat hard to find. I know the > original Mac 128s are quite rare -- what about the Fat Mac variety? How many do you want? :) > It's okay because I'm happy with that Mac Plus (thanks again :-) and my > SE/30 in my Compact Mac corral. So I'll live. :-P The CC40 is actually one of the very few things I DON'T have in my collection. I'll trade you for a Mac 512K ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 18 20:21:48 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <20010217233834.XGRE18941.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > I wish that's common here but I was only lucky to find LC III for 5 > cdn w/o both drives, no keyboard and no mouse. Centris 610 4mb w/ > both drives, a broken pin on ADB mouse for 20 cdn. PowerMacs are starting to show up in my parts. Someone snagged a 7300 from under me at a local thrift store. I waited until Saturday when it would've been 50% off but apparently someone got there earlier than me (it would've been $10 with a Mac SVGA monitor!) I got a 5100CD about a year ago which was a nice score. LCII's and LCIII's are starting to become common as well, plus Classic and Classic II's. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 18 20:25:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: SOL-20 front label In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Thanks to Sellam, my SOL-20 is not complete with the front panel > label! He scanned an original in two parts at 200dpi and I printed > them on glossy photo stock at 1440dpi on my Epson 740 and spliced them > back together. Comparing the output to the photograph on the cover of > 'The Small Computer Catalog' it came out pretty good, though the > catalog photograph is more orange-colored on the 'Processor > Technology' logo than what mine came out as. Still, it looks a lot > better than no label at all! Anyone that wishes a copy of the image > where I combined the two seperate scans side/side so they would print > out on a single piece of 8.5 x 11 photo stock just drop me a note > off-list and I'll be happy to send it to you. It's a little over 800k > in size. Cool! I'm glad that worked out for you. I could've scanned it in at a much higher DPI but I figured 200 was enough. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Feb 18 20:28:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Cheapest 512k sold recently on eBay (and more than a dozen are in the > sold database for last 30 days) was $40, top price was about $150. Hmmm, I think it's time to visit my Mac motherlode and rake it up on eBay ;) > A 512k is nice to have. > > 128k is better. > > 128k that doesn't say 128k (ie the original mac) is even better. And are pretty rare. I think it was only 6 months in the Mac's production that they came out with the 512K model and started putting the 128K emblem on the back of the 128K model. That doesn't entail a huge production number (maybe a few thousand?) I think the number might be ascertainable from Owen Linzmayer's book _Apple Confidential_. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Feb 18 22:12:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: SOL-20 front label In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Cool! I'm glad that worked out for you. I could've scanned it in at a >much higher DPI but I figured 200 was enough. The system looks much better with it. I got tired of waiting for one of the illustrators at work to print it out for me so I worked on it with my ancient version of Photoshop here. I'll likely do a bit more work on the coloration though and reprint it. With it scanned at 200dpi and printed at 1440dpi on my Epson 740 it turned out really nice. Thanks again! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Feb 18 22:37:36 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup References: Message-ID: <001d01c09a2d$af78a8a0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Well my 2 cents from up north... I found a bunch of original m000001 MACs (how many zeros...?) about a year ago but only one had the original 128K board. That one is a keeper for the collection...most of the m0000001 no-128k cases I have had some 512k boards put in them IIRC when I checked out all of the 30 compact Macs I have accumulated... By the way, I finally finished off my complete compact MAC collection by finding a boardless Color Classic (no I dont have a Classic II) this weekend. Unit looks complete except for the missing board... So if anyone has a working (maybe even non-working) board from a: Prefered: Color Classic Color Classic II Not original but should work (anybody tried these?): Performa 275 or 550 LC 520 (not sure if that one ok....) LC575 board That he would be willing to part with, Id like to hear from you very much! I have plenty (too much!) stuff to trade or whatever... Claude ----- Original Message ----- From: Sellam Ismail To: Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 9:28 PM Subject: Re: Santee swap meet wrapup > On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > Cheapest 512k sold recently on eBay (and more than a dozen are in the > > sold database for last 30 days) was $40, top price was about $150. > > Hmmm, I think it's time to visit my Mac motherlode and rake it up on eBay > ;) > > > A 512k is nice to have. > > > > 128k is better. > > > > 128k that doesn't say 128k (ie the original mac) is even better. > > And are pretty rare. I think it was only 6 months in the Mac's production > that they came out with the 512K model and started putting the 128K emblem > on the back of the 128K model. That doesn't entail a huge production > number (maybe a few thousand?) I think the number might be ascertainable > from Owen Linzmayer's book _Apple Confidential_. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Feb 18 23:06:16 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Feb 18, 1 06:18:46 pm" Message-ID: <200102190506.VAA10794@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > It's okay because I'm happy with that Mac Plus (thanks again :-) and my > > SE/30 in my Compact Mac corral. So I'll live. :-P > > The CC40 is actually one of the very few things I DON'T have in my > collection. I'll trade you for a Mac 512K ;) *grin* I think I'll keep this one if only for the curiosity factor, but the guy alleged he had a few more in stock so I'll see what he has next time I'm down in San Diego. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A good pun is its own reword. ---------------------------------------------- From Glenatacme at aol.com Sun Feb 18 23:33:24 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US Message-ID: A friend will soon be receiving a TC2048 made by Timex of Portugal which he wants to use in the US. Replacing the DC ps is no problem, but the composite video out was designed for a 50 Hz PAL TV. What's the best way to hook a US TV or monitor up to this beast? Thanks, Glen 0/0 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Feb 19 00:03:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: CC-40 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey I've got a CC40, maybe I better start paying attention. From archer at topnow.com Mon Feb 19 07:41:31 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Silly Apple IIc question Message-ID: <3A91228B.D34E1B1D@topnow.com> Is there a command from BASIC or such that formats the floppy disk on an Apple IIc? There appears to be a way to do it -- rather convoluted -- in assembly. But with no assembler worth mentioning... Thanks for any clues. -- Ross From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 19 08:19:19 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Silly Apple IIc question Message-ID: In a message dated 2/19/01 7:46:19 AM Central Standard Time, archer@topnow.com writes: << Is there a command from BASIC or such that formats the floppy disk on an Apple IIc? There appears to be a way to do it -- rather convoluted -- in assembly. But with no assembler worth mentioning... Thanks for any clues. >> depends. if you use dos 3.3, you use INIT HELLO from a command line. if you use prodos, you have to run the system utilities disk and choose the relevant option. From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Mon Feb 19 08:39:09 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: HP Entria In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010218205704.3d97c862@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20010218205704.3d97c862@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: If it works like newer hp x-terminals, it requires a code-load via bootp from a host. -Bob >Clint, > >At 09:19 AM 2/18/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Greetings and Happy Daytona 500 to all, > > > >Yesterday, at the CU auction, I picked up a 'HP Entria' model > >number "C3232A"... > > > >From what I can find on the web this is a color Xterminal. On the > >bottom it says "color - Maximum Resolution 1280x1024"... BNC (10base2), > >RJ45 (10baseT), serial, parallel, mouse, keyboard, HD15 video connector. > > > >Does anyone have a power supply (20VAC, 2Amp, 4 pin rectangular > >plug)? > > Yeap, it's an X-terminal. I've seen a ton of them in the scrap places. >Most get scrapped after the memory is pulled. I think the power supply is >the same as that used for some of the HP printers and other devices. It's >20 VAC with a center tap and one ground wire. I don't have the pin out but >you can open it up and find out quickly by looking at which leads go to the >retifier diodes. > > >Any information? Does this require a code load from the > >host, or is the code resident? Is the HD15 connector SVGA? > > Don't know. I never botherd to hook one up. > > Joe > > > >Thanks, > >clint > > > >PS I'll accept offers if someone wants to buy it also... It's pretty > >small and light so shipping shouldn't be outrageous... > > > > > > > > Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 19 08:53:56 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup References: <001d01c09a2d$af78a8a0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <008401c09a83$cb288ec0$0e701fd1@default> What years does your MAC collection cover ? I started a couple of years ago to collect one of each model (103 total) made from 1984 to 1995. I have 63 different models right now and have list of 39 more models to get. My latest find was a IIvi (it will make # 64) in Canada and I'm waiting on it to show up in the mail any day now. That has been a hard model to find, as has been the Color Classic II (still looking). I received a 550 in the mail a few months back that was damaged in shipment, but may have a working MB. I'll see if I can locate it storage and contact you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claude.W" To: Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 10:37 PM Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup > Well my 2 cents from up north... > > I found a bunch of original m000001 MACs (how many zeros...?) about a year > ago but only one had the original 128K board. That one is a keeper for the > collection...most of the m0000001 no-128k cases I have had some 512k boards > put in them IIRC when I checked out all of the 30 compact Macs I have > accumulated... > > By the way, I finally finished off my complete compact MAC collection by > finding a boardless Color Classic (no I dont have a Classic II) this > weekend. Unit looks complete except for the missing board... > > So if anyone has a working (maybe even non-working) board from a: > > Prefered: > Color Classic > Color Classic II > > Not original but should work (anybody tried these?): > Performa 275 or 550 > LC 520 (not sure if that one ok....) > LC575 board > > That he would be willing to part with, Id like to hear from you very much! > > I have plenty (too much!) stuff to trade or whatever... > > Claude > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sellam Ismail > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 9:28 PM > Subject: Re: Santee swap meet wrapup > > > > On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > Cheapest 512k sold recently on eBay (and more than a dozen are in the > > > sold database for last 30 days) was $40, top price was about $150. > > > > Hmmm, I think it's time to visit my Mac motherlode and rake it up on eBay > > ;) > > > > > A 512k is nice to have. > > > > > > 128k is better. > > > > > > 128k that doesn't say 128k (ie the original mac) is even better. > > > > And are pretty rare. I think it was only 6 months in the Mac's production > > that they came out with the 512K model and started putting the 128K emblem > > on the back of the 128K model. That doesn't entail a huge production > > number (maybe a few thousand?) I think the number might be ascertainable > > from Owen Linzmayer's book _Apple Confidential_. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Mon Feb 19 15:03:06 2001 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Tatung Einstein disks Message-ID: <3A9135AC.2504.15AC1E8@localhost> I've had a Tatung Einstein for some time but have no OS to use with it. Anyone have Xtal/DOS (correct?) for the Einstein - I've a few spare blank 2nd. user 3.0" disks (ten or more) to swap for the 3.0" disk(s) supplied with the Einstein. Doug. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Feb 19 10:00:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <001d01c09a2d$af78a8a0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> References: <001d01c09a2d$af78a8a0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: >By the way, I finally finished off my complete compact MAC collection by >finding a boardless Color Classic (no I dont have a Classic II) this >weekend. Unit looks complete except for the missing board... > >So if anyone has a working (maybe even non-working) board from a: > >Prefered: >Color Classic If nobody offers up one of the original 16mhz Color Classic mainboards, I may have one available later. >Color Classic II > >Not original but should work (anybody tried these?): >Performa 275 or 550 >LC 520 (not sure if that one ok....) >LC575 board I have a LC575 board ready to go into my CC but haven't done the transplant yet. I do have the system enabler version required by it though to run System 7.1. System 7.5 requires modification to either the mainboard or analog board for it to run and I'm not sure if I want to go that route. The Performa 550 board is basically the Color Classic II board. According to a Japanese page on upgrading the CC, it appears there are problems with using the LC 520 board. It's URL is here: http://homepage2.nifty.com/Kan-chan/ Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 19 09:18:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <508.450T350T9784487optimus@canit.se> Glenatacme skrev: >A friend will soon be receiving a TC2048 made by Timex of Portugal which he >wants to use in the US. Replacing the DC ps is no problem, but the composite > video out was designed for a 50 Hz PAL TV. >What's the best way to hook a US TV or monitor up to this beast? What connectors does it have? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Remember: - On the Amiga, you can make a way. - On Linux, there is a way, you just don't know it. - On Windows, there is no way and you know it. Aaron Digulla From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 19 09:14:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Microsoft / Amiga connections In-Reply-To: <20010219031246Z435417-5768+271@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1702.450T1500T9745293optimus@canit.se> Mark Green skrev: >> >> >3D software maker Softimage was acquired by Microsoft, managed >> >> >poorly for several years, then sold to Avid. That's probably >> >> >the connection you're thinking of. >> >> >> >> Another SGI firm, then. >> >> >Not exactly, SGI owns Alias|Wavefront which is the main >> >competitor to SoftImage. The one main benefit of SoftImage >> >being bought out by Microsoft is it started both companies >> >moving their products to cheaper platforms. >> >> I didn't mean that they were owned by SGI, but that they specialised in SGI >> products. As for moving their products to cheaper platforms, is that any >> advantage? >You bet. Ten years ago the hardware for a typical animation station >was around $75,000 (a high end SGI), then you put around $75,000 >worth of software on it, for a total or around $150,000. I now >teach at a media school, where I have a class of 60 students >learning 3D modeling and animation. I need around 30 stations for >this class, at $150,000 each that's a significant investment. Moving >to a PC based platform at least reduces the hardware costs. Over >the past decade the cost of Alias and SoftImage software has also >decreased. True, it's a lot of fun if you're low on money, but moving killer apps (the apps that make a platform viable) to the PC platform, you only consolidate its ubiquitous status. >I bought four 310VGX's at the Alias fire sale, which was actually >conducted by SGI. Old m68k machines? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If you consistently take an antagonistic approach, however, people are going to start thinking you're from New York. :-) --Larry Wall to Dan Bernstein in <10187@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 19 09:35:48 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <008401c09a83$cb288ec0$0e701fd1@default> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > What years does your MAC collection cover ? I started a couple of years > ago to collect one of each model (103 total) made from 1984 to 1995. I > have 63 different models right now and have list of 39 more models to > get. My latest find was a IIvi (it will make # 64) in Canada and I'm I picked up a nice, complete IIvx system the other day for like $14. It's actually still very usable, albeit a tad slow. > waiting on it to show up in the mail any day now. That has been a hard > model to find, as has been the Color Classic II (still looking). I Wow, really? I run across Color Classic II's regularly. I have one in my collection and have seen at least one or two in local thrift stores within the past few weeks. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Feb 19 10:55:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >A friend will soon be receiving a TC2048 made by Timex of Portugal which he >wants to use in the US. Replacing the DC ps is no problem, but the composite >video out was designed for a 50 Hz PAL TV. There used to be a mod for the UK 48k Spectrum to convert it's RF-out to a composite signal that could be viewed on US composite monitors. I'll have to poke around and see if I still have it somewhere. It may at least provide ideas on how to do a similar thing to the 2048. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Feb 19 10:52:41 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: HP Entria In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010218205704.3d97c862@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Thanks Joe! I found an old HP power supply in the discard pile at work that looks to be exactly what I need! I'll fire it up tonight and see if the magic smoke is still in it... clint On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Joe wrote: > Clint, > > At 09:19 AM 2/18/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Greetings and Happy Daytona 500 to all, > > > >Yesterday, at the CU auction, I picked up a 'HP Entria' model > >number "C3232A"... > > > >From what I can find on the web this is a color Xterminal. On the > >bottom it says "color - Maximum Resolution 1280x1024"... BNC (10base2), > >RJ45 (10baseT), serial, parallel, mouse, keyboard, HD15 video connector. > > > >Does anyone have a power supply (20VAC, 2Amp, 4 pin rectangular > >plug)? > > Yeap, it's an X-terminal. I've seen a ton of them in the scrap places. > Most get scrapped after the memory is pulled. I think the power supply is > the same as that used for some of the HP printers and other devices. It's > 20 VAC with a center tap and one ground wire. I don't have the pin out but > you can open it up and find out quickly by looking at which leads go to the > retifier diodes. > > > Any information? Does this require a code load from the > >host, or is the code resident? Is the HD15 connector SVGA? > > Don't know. I never botherd to hook one up. > > Joe > > > >Thanks, > >clint > > > >PS I'll accept offers if someone wants to buy it also... It's pretty > >small and light so shipping shouldn't be outrageous... > > > > > > > > > > > From cbajpai at mediaone.net Mon Feb 19 11:09:26 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Advice need - clean 8K PET keyboard Message-ID: I just got an 8K PET with the chiclet keyboard...which after 20+ years needs a good cleaning. Most keys workfine, some are intermittent, some don't work. How does one go about cleaning a 20+ year old keyboard? Also...is it easy to replace keytops? Anybody out there with a spare chiclet keyboard? Thanks, Chandra From red at bears.org Mon Feb 19 11:09:40 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:44 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > waiting on it to show up in the mail any day now. That has been a hard > > model to find, as has been the Color Classic II (still looking). I > > Wow, really? I run across Color Classic II's regularly. I have one in my > collection and have seen at least one or two in local thrift stores within > the past few weeks. Are you SURE? The Color Classic II was never sold in North America. I'll pay for the next one you find in a thrift store, and shipping to me, and perhaps a finder's fee on top of that! ok r. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Feb 19 11:11:49 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > waiting on it to show up in the mail any day now. That has been a hard >> model to find, as has been the Color Classic II (still looking). I > >Wow, really? I run across Color Classic II's regularly. I have one in my >collection and have seen at least one or two in local thrift stores within >the past few weeks. That's interesting since supposedly they were never marketed in the US. if I had found a Color Classic II I wouldn't have bothered getting the LC575 mainboard to upgrade mine. The crippled 16mhz '030 in the original is just too slow. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 19 11:23:40 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: CC-40 In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Feb 18, 1 10:03:32 pm" Message-ID: <200102191723.JAA10864@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Hey I've got a CC40, maybe I better start paying attention. Someone on the Vintage Macs list said that TI invented NuBus. True? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm in perpetual denial." ---------------- From azog at azog.org Mon Feb 19 11:46:07 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Wanted: VAX 750 in central NJ Message-ID: I recently moved into a new place that has plenty of room, so thinking to myself, what better to get than a VAX 750? So I'm considering looking for a (hopefully working) 750 in central NJ area. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Feb 19 12:21:23 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Silly Apple IIc question In-Reply-To: <3A91228B.D34E1B1D@topnow.com> Message-ID: >Is there a command from BASIC or such that formats the >floppy disk on an Apple IIc? Don't you need to run some program on the utilities floppy to format? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Feb 19 12:37:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: CC-40 In-Reply-To: <200102191723.JAA10864@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Feb 18, 1 10:03:32 pm" Message-ID: >> Hey I've got a CC40, maybe I better start paying attention. > >Someone on the Vintage Macs list said that TI invented NuBus. True? I think so, they did the support chips I am pretty sure. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Feb 19 12:36:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: HP Entria In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010218205704.3d97c862@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >I found an old HP power supply in the discard pile at work that >looks to be exactly what I need! I'll fire it up tonight and >see if the magic smoke is still in it... >> >Does anyone have a power supply (20VAC, 2Amp, 4 pin rectangular Be carefull, HP made two types of power supply that have different voltages. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Feb 19 12:44:02 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: CC-40 In-Reply-To: <200102191723.JAA10864@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Hey I've got a CC40, maybe I better start paying attention. > > Someone on the Vintage Macs list said that TI invented NuBus. True? > > It was originally developed at the MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, around '73 or so, I think. There was a consortium of some kind formed later to commercialize it, of which TI, Apple, and others were members. The TI S1500 and Explorer series were NuBus machines. What I'd like to know is how compatible the Mac NuBus is with the S1500 implementation. That is, can you take Mac NuBus cards and use them in an S1500, given Unix drivers for them? Also to this end, which Mac cards are likely to have driver sources and/or complete technical specifications available to a peon hacker? Mostly interested in TIGA (34010 and 34020) boards and 100 Mbit ethernet, also ISDN and RAID. I'm not a Mac guy, I only just got an SE, that has some kind of intermittent open in the display, by chance the other day. And it doesn't have any NuBus slots. So any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, jbdigriz From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 19 13:04:23 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Silly Apple IIc question In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Feb 19, 1 10:21:23 am" Message-ID: <200102191904.LAA11808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Is there a command from BASIC or such that formats the > >floppy disk on an Apple IIc? > > Don't you need to run some program on the utilities floppy to format? Only for ProDOS, and who uses that? Real men use DOS 3.3. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: New Study of Obesity Looks for Larger Test Group ------------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 19 13:15:50 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: CC-40 In-Reply-To: from "James B. DiGriz" at "Feb 19, 1 01:44:02 pm" Message-ID: <200102191915.LAA12140@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > It was originally developed at the MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, > around '73 or so, I think. There was a consortium of some kind formed later to > commercialize it, of which TI, Apple, and others were members. The TI > S1500 and Explorer series were NuBus machines. Intriguing. Someone showed up very recently on Vintage Macs saying he had a LISP Explorer and was trying to figure out what to do with it. > What I'd like to know is how compatible the Mac NuBus is with the > S1500 implementation. That is, can you take Mac NuBus cards and use them > in an S1500, given Unix drivers for them? Also to this end, which Mac > cards are likely to have driver sources and/or complete technical > specifications available to a peon hacker? Mostly interested in TIGA > (34010 and 34020) boards and 100 Mbit ethernet, also ISDN and RAID. Probably not. :-( But you might try the NetBSD folks. They support some kinds of network and video cards, though they do rely on MacOS to initialise them. At least you might be able to get driver code. http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/mac68k/ > I'm not a Mac guy, I only just got an SE, that has some kind > of intermittent open in the display, by chance the other day. And > it doesn't have any NuBus slots. So any help will be greatly appreciated. Actually, I think a great all-around 68K Mac is the IIci. It's expandable, lots of slots, "standard" hardware and runs a fairly good range of System versions (I think 6.0.8 through 7.6.1?). You can find them cheap, they're really common. I have two, one I got as surplus and one I bought bare-bones, stripped a beat-up IIsi, and put the HD, FD, memory and AUI network card into that. Love 'em. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Conscience makes egotists of us all. -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------ From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Feb 19 13:28:43 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: References: <200102191723.JAA10864@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010219112357.00a9df00@pacbell.net> At 01:44 PM 2/19/01 -0500, James B. DiGriz wrote: >On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > > > Hey I've got a CC40, maybe I better start paying attention. > > > > Someone on the Vintage Macs list said that TI invented NuBus. True? > > > > > >It was originally developed at the MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, >around '73 or so, I think. There was a consortium of some kind formed later to >commercialize it, of which TI, Apple, and others were members. The TI >S1500 and Explorer series were NuBus machines. I designed a card for Nubus that never made it to market (it was an accelerator card for doing OCR) back about 1991 or so. My recollection was also that it came from MIT, TI adopted it, then when the open Macs came out they adopted the bus. Heresay was that at the last minute the standard card size was changed because Apple already had worked up a machine and somebody got the dimensions wrong by 1/8" or something, so they changed the standard rather than retooling their product. >What I'd like to know is how compatible the Mac NuBus is with the >S1500 implementation. That is, can you take Mac NuBus cards and use them >in an S1500, given Unix drivers for them?... One feature that I recall was that was in the standard that Apple ignored was that the test and initialization code that came on each card was to be written in interpreted FORTH in order to make the cards more portable to different machines. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 12:55:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US In-Reply-To: from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Feb 19, 1 00:33:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1343 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010219/a4b77d13/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 13:02:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Advice need - clean 8K PET keyboard In-Reply-To: from "Chandra Bajpai" at Feb 19, 1 12:09:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1516 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010219/2c71daeb/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Mon Feb 19 12:55:54 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > waiting on it to show up in the mail any day now. That has been a hard > >> model to find, as has been the Color Classic II (still looking). I > > > >Wow, really? I run across Color Classic II's regularly. I have one in my > >collection and have seen at least one or two in local thrift stores within > >the past few weeks. > > That's interesting since supposedly they were never marketed > in the US. if I had found a Color Classic II I wouldn't have > bothered getting the LC575 mainboard to upgrade mine. The crippled > 16mhz '030 in the original is just too slow. Correction: I think I was talking about the Classic II. I don't specifically recall seeing Color Classics. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Feb 19 14:29:56 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: HP 85 Question References: Message-ID: <004c01c09ab2$b9a79e00$5112f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> I have an HP-85B with I/O ROM, the HP-IB interface and an 82901M 5 1/4" flexible disk drive unit (there are address switches on the back of the disk drive - now set to 000)? I want to access the drive from the 85B, and believe that I have all the necessary parts, but I lack the I/O ROM manual which, as I understand it, describes the extended BASIC commands (such as CONTROL x,y;a). So, I have a question: Once I hook all of this up, how do I access the disk drive, read from it, save to it and format a diskette? Thanks. Wayne Smith From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 19 14:49:57 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup References: Message-ID: <017001c09ab5$8d3e43c0$0e701fd1@default> If you pick up another one let me know and I will buy it or trade for it. Thanks John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 9:35 AM Subject: Re: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup > On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > > What years does your MAC collection cover ? I started a couple of years > > ago to collect one of each model (103 total) made from 1984 to 1995. I > > have 63 different models right now and have list of 39 more models to > > get. My latest find was a IIvi (it will make # 64) in Canada and I'm > > I picked up a nice, complete IIvx system the other day for like $14. It's > actually still very usable, albeit a tad slow. > > > waiting on it to show up in the mail any day now. That has been a hard > > model to find, as has been the Color Classic II (still looking). I > > Wow, really? I run across Color Classic II's regularly. I have one in my > collection and have seen at least one or two in local thrift stores within > the past few weeks. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 19 15:08:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Feb 19, 1 06:55:41 pm" Message-ID: <200102192108.NAA11938@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > It should be possible to tap off composite video at the input to the > modulator can. It'll still be UK standard (50Hz vertical) but many > composite mono monitors will display that if you tweak the verical hold > knob. Am I correct in assuming that this is a monochrome output machine > anyway, so the colour encoding differences (NTSC .vs. PAL) are irrelevant? He said a TC2048. I wonder if he meant 2068, which *is* colour, unfortunately. It seems that most American TVs are not PAL friendly. I wonder why it's so much easier to get an NTSC/PAL set in the rest of the world than it is here. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm joining my split ends individually." - From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 19 16:09:14 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) Message-ID: Bwhahaha, no way would they work in a 1500, the nubus in a 1500 uses card edge connectors, versus those nasty plastic thingies on apple nubus.. I know, since I own a 1500.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Feb 19 16:52:37 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: HP 85 Question References: <004c01c09ab2$b9a79e00$5112f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007201c09ac6$a8488160$5112f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > I have an HP-85B with I/O ROM, the HP-IB interface and > an 82901M 5 1/4" flexible disk drive unit (there are > address switches on the back of the disk drive - now > set to 000)? I want to access the drive from the 85B, > and believe that I have all the necessary parts, but I > lack the I/O ROM manual which, as I understand it, > describes the extended BASIC commands (such as CONTROL > x,y;a). So, I have a question: > > Once I hook all of this up, how do I access the disk > drive, read from it, save to it and format a diskette? > > Thanks. > > Wayne Smith > I should have also mentioned that I have the Mass Storage ROM as well, which I assume may also be necessary. -W From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Feb 19 16:52:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US In-Reply-To: <200102192108.NAA11938@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200102192108.NAA11938@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >He said a TC2048. I wonder if he meant 2068, which *is* colour, unfortunately. >It seems that most American TVs are not PAL friendly. I wonder why it's so >much easier to get an NTSC/PAL set in the rest of the world than it is here. If they had access to a video card such as ATI's All-In-Wonder that provide for both inputs and outputs, it should be possible to input a PAL signal and dispaly it on an NTSC screen, though they could also just view the input in a window on thier screen as well. Wouldn't something like this be possible on the A/V equipped Mac's as well? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Mon Feb 19 17:00:20 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > > Bwhahaha, no way would they work in a 1500, the nubus in a 1500 uses card > edge connectors, versus those nasty plastic thingies on apple nubus.. I > know, since I own a 1500.. > > Will J I don't see how it's an occasion for laughter, but thanks for the information. jbdigriz From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 19 17:19:03 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Feb 19, 1 05:52:55 pm" Message-ID: <200102192319.PAA11506@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > If they had access to a video card such as ATI's > All-In-Wonder that provide for both inputs and outputs, it should be > possible to input a PAL signal and dispaly it on an NTSC screen, > though they could also just view the input in a window on thier > screen as well. Wouldn't something like this be possible on the A/V > equipped Mac's as well? I use a Formac ProTV and can view PAL on that (makes sense, since Formac is a German company :-). It should be possible on standard A/V Macs also, like the 7600. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Just another Sojourner of the Dispersion (1 Peter 1:1) --------------------- From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 19 19:02:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1522.451T1950T1226047optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: >> What years does your MAC collection cover ? I started a couple of years >> ago to collect one of each model (103 total) made from 1984 to 1995. I >> have 63 different models right now and have list of 39 more models to >> get. My latest find was a IIvi (it will make # 64) in Canada and I'm >I picked up a nice, complete IIvx system the other day for like $14. It's >actually still very usable, albeit a tad slow. I picked a Centris 650 system up last month at the same price. The main attraction for me was the amount of RAM installed - 52 MB. What with he low availability and high prices of 72-pin SIMMs nowadays, it is usually cheaper to buy an entire computer only to excavate the RAM. I did find it very likable, though, and I'm actually surprised that an '040 Mac can be so swift. Usually, I'm anything but impressed by MacOS' performance. >> waiting on it to show up in the mail any day now. That has been a hard >> model to find, as has been the Color Classic II (still looking). I >Wow, really? I run across Color Classic II's regularly. I have one in my >collection and have seen at least one or two in local thrift stores within >the past few weeks. Are you certain? According to what I've heard, the CC II was only released in Asia. If you actually find one, you'd certainly earn a lot of you sold it on eBay. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "It is easier to port a shell than a shell script." --Larry Wall From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 19 20:54:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: ID this Heath/Zenith drive Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010219215419.3f1f0d86@mailhost.intellistar.net> Today I found an external 3 1/2" floppy drive made by Heath/Zenith. It has a tiny connector on it. It's similar to the micro-SCSI connectors but only has 20 contacts. There is no separate power connector. Does anyone know what this is made to be used with? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 19 20:58:07 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: HP Entria In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010218205704.3d97c862@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010219215807.4027d1dc@mailhost.intellistar.net> You're welcome. Good luck with it. I think most of them required a code upload from the host but you could get an optional boot card that plugged into them. I've seen lots of Entrias but I've never one with the card. Joe At 09:52 AM 2/19/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Thanks Joe! > >I found an old HP power supply in the discard pile at work that >looks to be exactly what I need! I'll fire it up tonight and >see if the magic smoke is still in it... > >clint > >On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Joe wrote: > >> Clint, >> >> At 09:19 AM 2/18/01 -0700, you wrote: >> > >> >Greetings and Happy Daytona 500 to all, >> > >> >Yesterday, at the CU auction, I picked up a 'HP Entria' model >> >number "C3232A"... >> > >> >From what I can find on the web this is a color Xterminal. On the >> >bottom it says "color - Maximum Resolution 1280x1024"... BNC (10base2), >> >RJ45 (10baseT), serial, parallel, mouse, keyboard, HD15 video connector. >> > >> >Does anyone have a power supply (20VAC, 2Amp, 4 pin rectangular >> >plug)? >> >> Yeap, it's an X-terminal. I've seen a ton of them in the scrap places. >> Most get scrapped after the memory is pulled. I think the power supply is >> the same as that used for some of the HP printers and other devices. It's >> 20 VAC with a center tap and one ground wire. I don't have the pin out but >> you can open it up and find out quickly by looking at which leads go to the >> retifier diodes. >> >> >> Any information? Does this require a code load from the >> >host, or is the code resident? Is the HD15 connector SVGA? >> >> Don't know. I never botherd to hook one up. >> >> Joe >> > >> >Thanks, >> >clint >> > >> >PS I'll accept offers if someone wants to buy it also... It's pretty >> >small and light so shipping shouldn't be outrageous... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > > From optimus at canit.se Mon Feb 19 19:26:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <450.451T2950T1466855optimus@canit.se> Will Jennings skrev: >Bwhahaha, no way would they work in a 1500, the nubus in a 1500 uses card >edge connectors, versus those nasty plastic thingies on apple nubus.. I >know, since I own a 1500.. I've always thought that card edge connectors look awfully cheap compared to nasty plastic thingies. Plastic thingies are a lot more classy. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From edick at idcomm.com Mon Feb 19 20:59:38 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) References: <450.451T2950T1466855optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001d01c09ae9$29e98080$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Yes, ... AND ... the "nasty plastic thingies" (DIN41612 connectors) are denser, gas-tight, and an order of magnitude more reliable than edge connectors. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Will Jennings" Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 6:26 PM Subject: Re: Nubus (was CC-40) > Will Jennings skrev: > > >Bwhahaha, no way would they work in a 1500, the nubus in a 1500 uses card > >edge connectors, versus those nasty plastic thingies on apple nubus.. I > >know, since I own a 1500.. > > I've always thought that card edge connectors look awfully cheap compared to > nasty plastic thingies. Plastic thingies are a lot more classy. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish > prison." > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Feb 19 22:17:00 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Newton revival? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010220041700.24933.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- James Carter wrote: > On 16 Feb, Joe wrote: > > Don, > > > > I had a similar problem with a Newton that I bought at an auction... > i had this problem with my omp. i found this web page which helped. ymmv > > http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/seanl/newton/MP100Power.html While we are on the topic of Newtons, I'm trying to help a PC user with a older Newt (M100?) back it up on her computer. She got it from someone else and has never had any communication software working with it. I've tried downloading various things from apple.com while using a cable I have that I _thought_ would work (QuickTake 150 -> DA9 cable) but No Go. Any good resources for siphoning Newts without a Mac? Thanks, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Glenatacme at aol.com Mon Feb 19 22:16:30 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US (long) Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for responding. Please see my embedded comments below. > >A friend will soon be receiving a TC2048 made by Timex of Portugal which he > >wants to use in the US. Replacing the DC ps is no problem, but the > composite > > video out was designed for a 50 Hz PAL TV. My error, it's TV RF out. > >What's the best way to hook a US TV or monitor up to this beast? > > What connectors does it have? To my knowledge just RF out. > There used to be a mod for the UK 48k Spectrum to convert > it's RF-out to a composite signal that could be viewed on US > composite monitors. I'll have to poke around and see if I still have > it somewhere. It may at least provide ideas on how to do a similar > thing to the 2048. Jeff, this would be very helpful. I believe the TC2048 is a 48K Spectrum is a different package. > That depends on what how much you object to modifying the machine... Well . . . I think the owner would prefer not to but I'll pass along your suggestions. > If you don't mind modifications : > It should be possible to tap off composite video at the input to the > modulator can. Sure, that's how my ZX81 is set up. > It'll still be UK standard (50Hz vertical) but many > composite mono monitors will display that if you tweak the verical hold > knob. Thanks, that's very helpful. > Am I correct in assuming that this is a monochrome output machine > anyway, so the colour encoding differences (NTSC .vs. PAL) are irrelevant? As stated above it's a 48K Speccy in sheep's clothing, so it *is* color. > I believe some Timex/Sinclair machines have links you can move to select > various video formats (although does this also involve a ROM change?) Tony, you are correct in that the ZX81 and TS1000 pcb had various traces labeled "US," "UK," "FR," etc. but I doubt the TC2048 does (since the Spectrum didn't). No ROM change is required. > You > might be able to get it to output 60Hz vertical video. And replace the > modulator with a US-standard VHF one (UK machines have a UHF TV output). > But you're now starting to seriously modify the machine. Hmm, probably not acceptable to the owner. BTW many ZX81s sold in the US (including the outrageously expensive kits offered by Zebra) shipped with UHF RF modulators. > If you want to keep it original, you need to get a UK-standard TV. > They're trivial to get over here (including quite small ones -- 5" and 9" > CRT models exist, 12" and 14" are common). Maybe one could be shipped > over to the States... Probably the best solution. See below. > He said a TC2048. I wonder if he meant 2068, which *is* colour, unfortunately. Cameron, you might be confusing the TC2068 and the TS2068. > It seems that most American TVs are not PAL friendly. I wonder why it's so > much easier to get an NTSC/PAL set in the rest of the world than it is here. Think about that question for a moment and ask yourself if you *really* want to know the answer ;>} > If they had access to a video card such as ATI's > All-In-Wonder that provide for both inputs and outputs, it should be > possible to input a PAL signal and dispaly it on an NTSC screen, > though they could also just view the input in a window on thier > screen as well. Jeff, great idea! Thanks! > I use a Formac ProTV and can view PAL on that (makes sense, since Formac > is a German company :-) And thanks to you too, Cameron. By pure coincidence I'm spending a week in Germany next month, attending the annual meeting of ZX-TEAM, the last active ZX81 user group. I could bring back a small color TV for my friend to use with the TC2048. Glen 0/0 From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Feb 19 22:08:05 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: HP 85 Question In-Reply-To: <004c01c09ab2$b9a79e00$5112f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010219230805.00705fd0@obregon.multi.net.co> At 12:29 PM 2/19/01 -0800, you wrote: >I have an HP-85B with I/O ROM, the HP-IB interface and >an 82901M 5 1/4" flexible disk drive unit (there are >address switches on the back of the disk drive - now >set to 000)? I want to access the drive from the 85B, >and believe that I have all the necessary parts, but I >lack the I/O ROM manual which, as I understand it, >describes the extended BASIC commands (such as CONTROL >x,y;a). So, I have a question: > >Once I hook all of this up, how do I access the disk >drive, read from it, save to it and format a diskette? > >Wayne Smith For most basic operations you don't even need those ROMS. Ok, here's some info: file names have the form: "file:msus", where msus=mass storage unit specifier. Typical msus are: ":D000" electronic disc ":D700" mass storage on HPIB bus (interface code 7) with HPIB ID=0, and unit number = 0; ":D910" mass storage on HPIL loop (interface code 9); with HPIL address 1, and unit number = 0. ":D751" If you have an HP82901M dual HPIB floppy drive at HPIB address 5, this is the msus for the second floppy. ":T" The msus for the internal tape drive Now, some commands MASS STORAGE IS ":D000" - defines electronic disc as default msus COPY "MYFILE" TO "MYFILE:D710" - copies "MYFILE" in default msus to to an HPIB mass storage device at HPIB addr = 1. INITIALIZE "MYLABEL", ":D720" - formats HPIB drive w. addr=2, using standard LIF directory size and interleave, and with a volume label "MYLABEL". You can later refer to a file in this volume as "MYFILE.MYLABEL" ERASETAPE - format a tape MSI ":D710" - equivalent to: MASS STORAGE IS ":D720" CAT ".MYVOLUME" or CAT ":D720" both work. DISC FREE S,T, ":D720" stores the number of free records in msus "D720" in variable S, and the number of records in the largest contiguous free area of ":D720" in variable T. MSUS$ returns the msus of the current MASS STORAGE IS device VOL$ returns a six character string indicating the volume label in the current MSI device; VOL$(":D700") you guess it. This should be enough for you to play for a while. Regards, Carlos. From russ at rbcs.8m.com Mon Feb 19 22:52:23 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: <001d01c09ae9$29e98080$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: They used a connector similar to the DIN41612 in the HP 1000 and I can say for a fact that we never had dirty or corroded connectors. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 9:00 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Nubus (was CC-40) Yes, ... AND ... the "nasty plastic thingies" (DIN41612 connectors) are denser, gas-tight, and an order of magnitude more reliable than edge connectors. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Will Jennings" Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 6:26 PM Subject: Re: Nubus (was CC-40) > Will Jennings skrev: > > >Bwhahaha, no way would they work in a 1500, the nubus in a 1500 uses card > >edge connectors, versus those nasty plastic thingies on apple nubus.. I > >know, since I own a 1500.. > > I've always thought that card edge connectors look awfully cheap compared to > nasty plastic thingies. Plastic thingies are a lot more classy. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish > prison." > > From archer at topnow.com Mon Feb 19 23:01:39 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Silly Apple IIc question References: <200102191904.LAA11808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A91FA33.FE34005A@topnow.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > >Is there a command from BASIC or such that formats the > > >floppy disk on an Apple IIc? > > > > Don't you need to run some program on the utilities floppy to format? > > Only for ProDOS, and who uses that? Real men use DOS 3.3. ;-) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- TRUE HEADLINE: New Study of Obesity Looks for Larger Test Group ------------ Well, as I have no floppies of any sort for it.... hmm. Well, the mini-assembler is fun. :) -- Ross From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Feb 19 22:55:48 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010219205216.00b846b0@pacbell.net> At 11:16 PM 2/19/01 -0500, Glen wrote: >... > > I use a Formac ProTV and can view PAL on that (makes sense, since Formac > > is a German company :-) > >And thanks to you too, Cameron. By pure coincidence I'm spending a week in >Germany next month, attending the annual meeting of ZX-TEAM, the last active >ZX81 user group. I could bring back a small color TV for my friend to use >with the TC2048. OK, but then that just sets up the next question. If you have a PAL TV that is expecting 240V, 50Hz, will everything work OK if you simply get a 240V->120V converter? Or are there things in the TV that derive timing from the 50 Hz frequency? ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From rdd at smart.net Mon Feb 19 23:12:37 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: OT: furnace collecting and vintage furnace control system interfacing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010219215807.4027d1dc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Greetings, The following is a little off-topic - but I know that some people here collect large computer systems, so, I'm just wondering: does anyone here, who has a fair amount of free-space, collect and preserve home furnaces - or know of anyone who does? This thought occured to me while looking for a replacement boiler gauge for my parents' old Ideal No. 7 furnace from American Radiator Company - it's so much more interesting to look at then the newer furnaces being installed in houses, as are many older furnaces. It actually is a nice looking furnace. It was originally a coal-fired unit, but the original coal grates have been kept, as have the original oil-burner unit and circulator pump and motor - even though newer ones are now in place. While I realize that some older furnaces here and there are coated with asbestos, many of them are not, and if someone doesn't preserve them - and I fear that most of the more interesting ones, like those with automatic coal feeders, may have already been scrapped, there won't be many left to preserve. Years ago, I read an article in the Old House Journal, about a warehouse in New York where old furnaces were being stored, where one could go to find parts. Our of curiosoty, does anyone know if this still exists, and has anyone on this list visited there and taken a tour of the warehouse? To make this a little more on-topic, has anyone used a classic computer to interface with an older furnace's control circuitry? Does anyone here happen to have a manual, or a copy of a manual, for any of G.E.'s 1950-era home furnace "master control" systems which includes a schematic diagram? My parents had this, but it somehow vanished over the years. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Mon Feb 19 23:28:07 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Microsoft / Amiga connections (Really SGI stuff now) In-Reply-To: <1702.450T1500T9745293optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Feb 19, 2001 04:14:30 pm" Message-ID: <20010220052808Z433866-10697+402@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > >> products. As for moving their products to cheaper platforms, is that any > >> advantage? > > >You bet. Ten years ago the hardware for a typical animation station > >was around $75,000 (a high end SGI), then you put around $75,000 > >worth of software on it, for a total or around $150,000. I now > >teach at a media school, where I have a class of 60 students > >learning 3D modeling and animation. I need around 30 stations for > >this class, at $150,000 each that's a significant investment. Moving > >to a PC based platform at least reduces the hardware costs. Over > >the past decade the cost of Alias and SoftImage software has also > >decreased. > > True, it's a lot of fun if you're low on money, but moving killer apps (the > apps that make a platform viable) to the PC platform, you only consolidate its > ubiquitous status. >From my work perspective, moving as much as possible to a PC (or similar high volume platform) is desirable since it decreases costs. Higher volume means lower costs. I know that may be upsetting to some people on this list. In many ways SGI has encouraged the movement of highend graphics to PCs by a series of stupid moves through the 1990s. To a certain degree the company has lost direction, not unlike the process DEC went through in its last decade. Through the 1980s and the early 1990s, SGI produced reasonably priced highend graphics workstations. Most of the SGI workstations I purchased in that period were in the $65,000 CDN range (this is the educational price). These were good solid workstations, with about the best graphics performance you could get. The last machine SGI made with this characteristic was the Crimson/RE (which is about 8-10 years ago). To get into a highend SGI now costs around $250,000 for some type of Oynx with reasonable options. This isn't cheap. All the other graphics workstations that SGI produce are outperformed by PC based ones. The Oynx is the only graphics workstation that they produce that can't easily be duplicated elsewhere. Its the only game in town for really high end graphics, but I really hate the price tag (I'm in the process of buying another one now), because the price/performance just isn't there. The earlier SGIs were cheaper because there were a small number of standard configurations that could be mass produced. On the other hand, each Oynx is custom built, so there is no volume advantage. The end result is a high price, and a less reliable product. > > >I bought four 310VGX's at the Alias fire sale, which was actually > >conducted by SGI. > > Old m68k machines? > The last m68k based SGI was the 3000 series, which dates from around 1986. The 310 series was R3000 based, a good ways into their relationship with MIPS. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Feb 20 00:21:30 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: furnace collecting and vintage furnace control system interfacing References: Message-ID: <004501c09b05$5d940f60$1800a8c0@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 3:42 PM Subject: OT: furnace collecting and vintage furnace control system interfacing Interesting concept. I've never even seen anything like you are describing. (Central heating systems are virtually non-existent here - doesn't get cold enough, long enough). I had no idea that they were that elaborate. Pressure gauges? Automatic coal loading? Sounds like the BHP Steelworks. Wild. Watch out for the asbestos though. Bad Karma. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au ICQ: 1970476 From foo at siconic.com Tue Feb 20 00:07:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: ID this Heath/Zenith drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010219215419.3f1f0d86@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Joe wrote: > Today I found an external 3 1/2" floppy drive made by Heath/Zenith. > It has a tiny connector on it. It's similar to the micro-SCSI > connectors but only has 20 contacts. There is no separate power > connector. Does anyone know what this is made to be used with? Most likely one of their early laptops, like perhaps a SuperSport (or is that MiniSport?) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From kees.stravers at iae.nl Tue Feb 20 01:53:15 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Pictures of first Dutch computer collectors meeting available Message-ID: <20010220075315.0B5A920F82@mail.iae.nl> Fellow collectors, It gives me great pleasure to let you know that the first meeting of computer collectors in The Netherlands was a great success. We have our own mailing list in the Dutch language, cvml@egroups.com, and on this list the plan grew for the members to actually meet in person and bring some nice computers to show to fellow collectors and tell stories about them. A venue was found in Rotterdam and last saturday it all happened. Not too many people visited, but those that did had a great time, and in about half a year another meeting will be held. Pictures of the first meeting can be seen at http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/cvml/index.html and http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/cvml/meeting_index.html Kees. From steven at nvunot.com Tue Feb 20 02:15:59 2001 From: steven at nvunot.com (steven@nvunot.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Collectors Bulletin Board References: <20010220075315.0B5A920F82@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: <3A9227BD.8A3BBDD@nvunot.com> I have a double sided presentation (not sure if it's inhouse or for outside sales) from 1956 for the IBM ramac 305 computer. On the internet I have tried to find any collectors of computer related materials, or newsgroups, bulletin boards, or anything to find out about this. I have sent 2 emails to IBM to see if I could get any information on exactly what it might be or what it was created for. It's been several moths and still have received no response. I was wondering if you might have any leads or know where I can find any information on people that collect this type of thing. To get a better idea of what I'm asking, you can view some pictures of it at http://www.nvunot.com/ibm/ I know this may be a strange request for your organization but I have exhausted all other ideas on how to obtain any information. Any help you may provide would be greatly appeciated. Steven Hefner From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 20 02:22:49 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Original B&W Macs...was Re: Santee swap meet wrapup In-Reply-To: <1522.451T1950T1226047optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >I picked a Centris 650 system up last month at the same price. The main The only faster 68040 mac is the 840AV at 40 mhz, and 650 is 33 mhz and quite a nice machine. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Feb 20 03:08:36 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Fixing VT220s Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD1761B2@exchange.softwright.co.uk> Hi, I've got a VT200 here that's having display problems - vertically everything seems fine but the display is garbled horizontally. Any ideas what to check for? Might be a common fault with these things?? cheers Jules -- From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Feb 20 03:22:53 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Tek XD88 - current status & thanks Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD1761B4@exchange.softwright.co.uk> Well, lots of progress yesterday - I managed to read the entirety of the old Tek hard drive on a modern PC using dd and an Adaptec controller - no idea why the controller should make a difference (my other PC SCSI card doesn't like the drive, and nor does the Tek's own controller) Better still, I dumped the raw disk image onto another drive and put that into the Tek, fully expecting it not to work - but it did! A big thanks to those on the list that offered advice - looks like I might be able to revive this thing :) (see my separate posting about filesystem checks) cheers Jules ps. the ROM-based diags reckon there's 64MB of memory in this thing and 16MB of framebuffer - I'm not ready to believe that yet, but it'd be nice :-) -- From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Feb 20 03:23:03 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Unix filesystem checks Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD1761B5@exchange.softwright.co.uk> OK, calling all Unix people... See the other post on the status of the Tek Unix system - I got that going with another disk and it booted to single-user mode, complaining about filesystem errors. I ran fsck and it worked this time on the new disk (I vaguely remember before that it used to give up halfway with the old failing drive) Lots of errors, to which I just answered 'y' to each one (if that was the wrong thing to do then say - I still have an image of the old, corrupted drive). I now have a clean filesystem, and lots of stuff in /lost+found Any ideas what the next step is? Do I just have to look at the contents of files and directories in /lost+found (they're all numbered rather than named - by inode or something?) and try to figure out what everything in there is? (there's a lot of files there - I suppose I'm quite lucky the system even booted) That's going to be painful (and probably impossible for some of the data) - presumably the original filenames have been lost in the corruption? I'm only used to fsck on linux where it always seems to sort itself out - I've not had to rebuild a filesystem like this before! cheers Jules -- From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Tue Feb 20 04:34:16 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: RAMAC In-Reply-To: <3A9227BD.8A3BBDD@nvunot.com> References: <20010220075315.0B5A920F82@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010220053335.00ad42a0@popmail.voicenet.com> At 02:15 AM 2/20/01 -0600, you wrote: >I have a double sided presentation (not sure if it's inhouse or for >outside sales) from 1956 for the IBM ramac 305 computer. On the internet > >I have tried to find any collectors of computer related materials, or >newsgroups, bulletin boards, or anything to find out about this. http://www.ibm.com/IBM/history/timeline.nsf/46e21fa44e387a0d8525653700595131/c21aa668613eefc78525650f006a43ab?OpenDocument --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 20 09:55:05 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) Message-ID: What kind of an HP 1000 uses those? Must be an A-series, the M/E/F machines certainly don't... The 9000/800 series certainly do, can't speak for earlier systems.. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 20 11:28:08 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Newton revival? In-Reply-To: <20010220041700.24933.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010220122808.1affd7f8@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:17 PM 2/19/01 -0800, you wrote: > >--- James Carter wrote: >> On 16 Feb, Joe wrote: >> > Don, >> > >> > I had a similar problem with a Newton that I bought at an auction... > >> i had this problem with my omp. i found this web page which helped. ymmv >> >> http://www.cs.umd.edu/users/seanl/newton/MP100Power.html > >While we are on the topic of Newtons, I'm trying to help a PC user with a >older Newt (M100?) back it up on her computer. She got it from someone >else and has never had any communication software working with it. I've >tried downloading various things from apple.com while using a cable I have >that I _thought_ would work (QuickTake 150 -> DA9 cable) but No Go. > >Any good resources for siphoning Newts without a Mac? > >Thanks, > >-ethan > > > No, I'm afraid I can't help here. I've never tried to connect my Newton to anything so I can't tell you anything about it. Joe From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Feb 20 10:26:45 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Emulex woes Message-ID: <3A929AC4.8E905EE0@arrl.net> Well the RD52 in my 11/83 died, only the second failure for this box in over 12 years. Tried to use the UC07 board (out of a mVax) to instal a SCSI drive but can't get the 11/83 to recognize it, let alone format. Anyone had success in using this board with the PDP11? I've set the address to 172154 as the M7555 is still onboard to allow the rx33 as the boot device. Will the DEC diags format the SCSI (i expect not)? Thanks ........ nick o From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 20 11:40:16 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010220124016.25bf9ed4@mailhost.intellistar.net> > > 1. You have ever sent E-mail to someone sitting next to you. > > 2. You have ever modified a Windows reg file, ini file, or Linux init >script. > > 3. You would sell your Grandmother for more bandwidth. > > 4. You get up at 3 A.M. to go to the bathroom and stop to check your E-mail >on your way back to bed. > > 5. You start tilting your head sideways to smile. > > 6. You've entered a DSL or Cable Modem contest so many times you get e-mail >saying "Forget it, Mike you are not going to win, just go buy the modem". > > 7. You know what the DSL or Cable Modems are and how they work. > > 8. You have ever dozed off while at the computer. > > 9. You have ever E-mailed yourself. > >10. The tech support folks at your ISP call YOU for the tough ones. > >11. You write and debug Windows applications on you Palm. > >12. You have more than one version of an operating system, or more than one >operating system on your machine. > >13. You have ever submitted a patch to LinuxKernal.org. > >14. You have ever chatted with someone while talking to him or her on the >phone. > >15. You are surprised that there are other real foods besides pizza. > >16. You have invested in a coffee plantation. > >17. You have more computer CD's than music CD's. > >18. You had no Idea that music came on CD's. > From russ at rbcs.8m.com Tue Feb 20 10:34:08 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It wasn't exactly those but similar in style. The HP1000 we had was a military modification for our ALCM test racks as well so it may be that ours was a special mod as well. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Will Jennings Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:55 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Nubus (was CC-40) What kind of an HP 1000 uses those? Must be an A-series, the M/E/F machines certainly don't... The 9000/800 series certainly do, can't speak for earlier systems.. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Feb 20 11:10:32 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Emulex woes In-Reply-To: <3A929AC4.8E905EE0@arrl.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010220090837.02e657d0@208.226.86.10> At 10:26 AM 2/20/01 -0600, you wrote: >Anyone had success in using this board with the PDP11? I've set the >address to 172154 as the M7555 is still onboard to allow the rx33 as >the boot device. Will the DEC diags format the SCSI (i expect not)? Did you mean you set it for 760330 rather than 172154? You want to set it as the second MSCP disk controller since the M7555 is still there. It will be 'dubx' in VAX parlance, not sure what it would show up as on the '11. Also you probably have to sysgen the system to know about it. --Chuck From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Feb 20 11:09:07 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Newtonian mechanics was Re: Newton revival? References: <3.0.1.16.20010220122808.1affd7f8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000d01c09b5f$d79be350$51784ed8@DOMAIN> > >Any good resources for siphoning Newts without a Mac? I'm not sure which model she has but if it's one with a pcmcia port, she might be able to rig up a transfer through an available modem/ethernet card and some more easily findable software... http://planetnewton.com/ is great site. but there should be pc connection kit to do this for her model. There's probably a few on ebay right now. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Feb 20 11:34:22 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:45 2005 Subject: Solace, the Sol computer emulator, version 2.2 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010220093412.00bc3a10@pacbell.net> I've just released version 2.2 of my Sol computer emulator, Solace. Besides fixing a few bugs and making a few minor improvements, I've added support for what I call Sol Virtual Tapes. These are human- readable ASCII files that contain the state of a tape. Just like a real Sol, two tape drives are supported, and files can be recorded at 1200 baud or 300 baud. Check out the whizzy user interface for the virtual tapes: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/solace_tape.html I'm quite confident that I spent more time working on the interface than anybody will ever spend actually using it. But that wasn't the point of doing it anyway. Here are the release notes for Solace: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/relnotes.txt Here is the link to the main Solace web page: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/solace.html Here is the link to the main Sol web page: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html I've heard that Solace runs on Linux under the Wine (Win32 emulation) interface, and it also runs on a Mac via the RealPC emulator program (yes, an emulator on an emulator). Now I have no reason to port it. A few people have sent me items for the Sol archive which have been waiting in line behind Solace, and I hope to get them online soon. After that, the next step for Solace is emulation of a couple Northstar disk drives... As always, suggestions, bug reports, and donations of items for the Sol archive are welcomed. If anybody with a Helios system can grab the ROM image from their personality module, and more than that, can dump the contents of a bootable disk, I'll add support for that disk system too. Bob Stek was great and sent me source listings for PT DOS, but I can't see myself OCRing and correcting 200+ pages of source code any time soon. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From itq at hetnet.nl Tue Feb 20 12:11:56 2001 From: itq at hetnet.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Emulex woes Message-ID: <20010220182823.F29FE36C0E@rhea.worldonline.nl> Nick Replacing an RD52 is not such a big problem. Just take a ST251 drive or another MFM drive from an old PC and format it with your M7555 using XXDP utility ZRQCH0. Wim ---------- > Van: no > Aan: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Onderwerp: Emulex woes > Datum: dinsdag 20 februari 2001 17:26 > > Well the RD52 in my 11/83 died, only the second failure for this box > in over 12 years. Tried to use the UC07 board (out of a mVax) to instal > a SCSI drive but can't get the 11/83 to recognize it, let alone format. > > Anyone had success in using this board with the PDP11? I've set the > address to 172154 as the M7555 is still onboard to allow the rx33 as > the boot device. Will the DEC diags format the SCSI (i expect not)? > > Thanks ........ nick o From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 20 12:44:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US (long) In-Reply-To: from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Feb 19, 1 11:16:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2961 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010220/c9610a83/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 20 12:50:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Using UK equipment in US In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010219205216.00b846b0@pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Feb 19, 1 08:55:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1388 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010220/9bff8186/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 20 12:37:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: <450.451T2950T1466855optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Feb 20, 1 02:26:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 982 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010220/bb19ed42/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 20 12:52:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: OT: furnace collecting and vintage furnace control system interfacing In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 20, 1 00:12:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 367 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010220/6555f414/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 20 12:56:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Fixing VT220s In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD1761B2@exchange.softwright.co.uk> from "Julian Richardson" at Feb 20, 1 09:08:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1171 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010220/9eaaaf60/attachment.ksh From wschoppe at suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Feb 20 14:54:47 2001 From: wschoppe at suffolk.lib.ny.us (wschoppe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Boot disk Message-ID: <003301c09b7f$8b655640$07168bd1@4> Sirs: Adrian Graham at the Online Computer Museum recommended I contact your group to try to locate a disk for my Compaq Portable 3. I realize it falls into the dinosaur category but someone gave it to me and the challenge of getting it operational was too much to bear. When it finishes counting all 640K of memory, it reminds me to use a setup disk or hit "F1". When I do that, it mentions there is a non-system or bad disk. Then the message keeps repeating when trying various type of DOS disks I have. I have the feeling Compaq uses something like DOS but I have none of those OS disks. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Bob Schoppe From ss at allegro.com Tue Feb 20 15:09:13 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: HP Entria In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010219215807.4027d1dc@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: <3A926C79.13744.9759E0E@localhost> Re: > You're welcome. Good luck with it. I think most of them required a code > upload from the host but you could get an optional boot card that plugged > into them. I've seen lots of Entrias but I've never one with the card. If anyone wants a card, I think I know where one can be found at a local surplus store...costs about $40, IIRC. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Feb 20 15:19:08 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Boot disk Message-ID: In a message dated Tue, 20 Feb 2001 4:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, "wschoppe" writes: << Sirs: Adrian Graham at the Online Computer Museum recommended I contact your group to try to locate a disk for my Compaq Portable 3. I realize it falls into the dinosaur category but someone gave it to me and the challenge of getting it operational was too much to bear. When it finishes counting all 640K of memory, it reminds me to use a setup disk or hit "F1". When I do that, it mentions there is a non-system or bad disk. Then the message keeps repeating when trying various type of DOS disks I have. I have the feeling Compaq uses something like DOS but I have none of those OS disks. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Bob Schoppe >> Although I don't personally have one, I believe you should be able to use a dos disk. The only caveat being I am pretty sure only has a 720k drive. If you can find a 720k disk, format it and put your favorite dos's system files on it and then try it. It may sound funny, but I just recently ran into the exact same problem with a GRiDcase 3. Works like a charm now :-) -Linc Fessenden From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Feb 20 16:01:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Atari guilt post, Socal Goodwill In-Reply-To: References: from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 20, 1 00:12:37 am Message-ID: I was in the Santa Ana, CA Goodwill computer store yesterday and they let me into the back to poke around in a couple of the big wire cage/bin things. Under a heap of stuff I saw a box that said Atari 800, so I (very) laborously dug down to it. Unfortunately it was just a foot tall stack of Antic magazines and some local to SoCal Atari club news letters. Most likely I could have purchased the whole pile for $5, but I passed as its not my area and I don't have much of a feel for anybody elses interest. I mention this to the list because if people don't make the things they want known, most of us bin diggers will pass over the stuff. FYI a second Goodwill computer store is set to open March 9th in Fullerton, CA. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 20 15:12:03 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Wisconin area collectors wanted for media story Message-ID: Stefanie Scott is seeking out Wisconsin area collectors for an article she's writing for the Post-Crescent. Please contact her directly at . Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 20 16:15:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Boot disk References: <003301c09b7f$8b655640$07168bd1@4> Message-ID: <001701c09b8a$a08162c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It's likely you'll need the setup diskette for he Protable 3. That's needed in order to tell the machine what hardware it has. After that it should boot whatever flavor of MSDOS you care to feed it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "wschoppe" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 1:54 PM Subject: Boot disk > Sirs: > > Adrian Graham at the Online Computer Museum recommended I contact your group > to try to locate a disk for my Compaq Portable 3. I realize it falls into > the dinosaur category but someone gave it to me and the challenge of getting > it operational was too much to bear. > When it finishes counting all 640K of memory, it reminds me to use a setup > disk or hit "F1". When I do that, it mentions there is a non-system or bad > disk. Then the message keeps repeating when trying various type of DOS disks > I have. I have the feeling Compaq uses something like DOS but I have none of > those OS disks. > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thank you, > > Bob Schoppe > > From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Feb 20 17:10:21 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Emulex woes References: <20010220182823.F29FE36C0E@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: <3A92F95D.CA6B0AA@arrl.net> Don't have any more MFM drives around though, while I could probably find one locally, I would prefer to get the SCSI working. Got plenty of the RZ23 era drives about. Thanks, nick "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > > Nick > > Replacing an RD52 is not such a big problem. Just take a ST251 drive or > another MFM drive from an old PC and format it with your M7555 using XXDP > utility ZRQCH0. > > Wim > > ---------- > > Van: no > > Aan: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Onderwerp: Emulex woes > > Datum: dinsdag 20 februari 2001 17:26 > > > > Well the RD52 in my 11/83 died, only the second failure for this box > > in over 12 years. Tried to use the UC07 board (out of a mVax) to instal > > a SCSI drive but can't get the 11/83 to recognize it, let alone format. > > > > Anyone had success in using this board with the PDP11? I've set the > > address to 172154 as the M7555 is still onboard to allow the rx33 as > > the boot device. Will the DEC diags format the SCSI (i expect not)? > > > > Thanks ........ nick o From russ at rbcs.8m.com Tue Feb 20 17:25:00 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Boot disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you go to Compaq's normal support site you can muddle around until you locate "out of production" where you should find the CMOS setup software. Gridcase setups (if applicable) are at Tandy's support site. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of LFessen106@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 3:19 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Boot disk In a message dated Tue, 20 Feb 2001 4:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, "wschoppe" writes: << Sirs: Adrian Graham at the Online Computer Museum recommended I contact your group to try to locate a disk for my Compaq Portable 3. I realize it falls into the dinosaur category but someone gave it to me and the challenge of getting it operational was too much to bear. When it finishes counting all 640K of memory, it reminds me to use a setup disk or hit "F1". When I do that, it mentions there is a non-system or bad disk. Then the message keeps repeating when trying various type of DOS disks I have. I have the feeling Compaq uses something like DOS but I have none of those OS disks. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Bob Schoppe >> Although I don't personally have one, I believe you should be able to use a dos disk. The only caveat being I am pretty sure only has a 720k drive. If you can find a 720k disk, format it and put your favorite dos's system files on it and then try it. It may sound funny, but I just recently ran into the exact same problem with a GRiDcase 3. Works like a charm now :-) -Linc Fessenden From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Feb 20 17:50:17 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Emulex woes References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010220090837.02e657d0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A9302B9.88081AA2@arrl.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 10:26 AM 2/20/01 -0600, you wrote: > >Anyone had success in using this board with the PDP11? I've set the > >address to 172154 as the M7555 is still onboard to allow the rx33 as > >the boot device. Will the DEC diags format the SCSI (i expect not)? > > Did you mean you set it for 760330 rather than 172154? You want to set it > as the second MSCP disk controller since the M7555 is still there. It will > be 'dubx' in VAX parlance, not sure what it would show up as on the '11. > Also you probably have to sysgen the system to know about it. > > --Chuck I'll try some other addresses tonight; under rt11 it should just appear in the device list using *SHO ALL*. Never had it operational in my mVax so there is the possibility i've a bad board. thanks, nick From r.stek at snet.net Tue Feb 20 19:54:17 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: A) Hooray for SOLace 2.2 & B) Type 'n Talk power supply needed Message-ID: A) Stop everything and run over to http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/solace.html and download Jim Battle's newest update to the best emulator in the world. This guy is amazing! Now you play and record virtual cassette tapes on your emulated SOL. It's the next best thing to having a non-emulated Sol - ! B) I finally found a Votrax Type n' Talk after a search of several months (and refusal to overpay on eBay), but when I received it today, I found that it lacks the power supply - a cute little thing with a 5-pin DIN plug supplying 26 VAC, 180 ma on pins 1 and 3, 20 V DC 50 ma on pin 2 and pin 4 is 0 volt reference. Not exactly something I can whip up in a hurry., Sooo... does anyone have an "extra" unit they would like to trade - either the power supply or both pieces. And if so, what might you be looking for? Thanks. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 20 19:21:22 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Info on TI CC-40 Message-ID: This is what Wayne Lafitte (the guy selling the TI CC-40 units) told me about the product. He was a marketing manager at TI and he was responsible for the CC-40. "This product was manufactured out of Lubbock, Texas in 1982-1983 timeframe. There were only a few thousand 6K CC40s made and only a few hundred 18K CC40s made. The wafertape (stringy floppy) met it's end early on because of compatibility issues between units. These didn't make it past the prototype stage (very few made). Most of the cartridges were developed from the software libraries created for the TI59 and TI58 hand held programmable calculators. The 18K CC40s were made to support the industrial markets and VARs, but really didn't take off. If you remember, the IBM PCs came out in 1983, the Hewlett Packard hand held programmable calculators, and Texas Instruments fiasco with the TI99/4 home computer pretty much killed this product. By the way, a new hand held calculator (the TI88) was being prototyped at the same time as the CC40. The TI88 was a very neat little replacement for the TI59 but the product was cancelled before it was put in production because the CC40 was believed to be better. In my opinion, that was a mistake. "The CC40 products were mainly sold through TI employee sales stores and never really reached the consumer market. There were a few VAR customers." Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Feb 20 20:39:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, UPS struck again. In the past they've managed to destroy any number of monitors, including a Tandy CM1 and a DEC VR201. Today a Blue/white G3 that I ordered arrived, packed in all the original styrofoam and stuff and they still managed to break the casing into numerous pieces. They must have really tossed it around to cause the damage that was done. Needless to say, in the future I'll be doing everything I can to avoid using UPS. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Tue Feb 20 20:35:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010220124016.25bf9ed4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <1413.452T50T2153711optimus@canit.se> Joe skrev: >> 1. You have ever sent E-mail to someone sitting next to you. Naturally, we were telnetted into the same BBS. >> 2. You have ever modified a Windows reg file, ini file, or Linux init >>script. Can't say I have, actually. I did edit rc.conf in NetBSD a few hours ago, though, but I suppose that isn't as geeky as editing the Windows registry. >> 3. You would sell your Grandmother for more bandwidth. Since I have two, yes. >> 4. You get up at 3 A.M. to go to the bathroom and stop to check your E-mail >>on your way back to bed. It's past three right now. >> 7. You know what the DSL or Cable Modems are and how they work. But I don't own the buggers. That's justice to you. >> 8. You have ever dozed off while at the computer. Yes. =) >> 9. You have ever E-mailed yourself. Great file transfer method. >>11. You write and debug Windows applications on you Palm. Never would. I'm so lame. >>12. You have more than one version of an operating system, or more than one >>operating system on your machine. I usually would, but I've found it's easier just to get another computer. >>17. You have more computer CD's than music CD's. Yes. It's a shame there is no LP-ROM. >>18. You had no Idea that music came on CD's. I've heard of it, but the playback in my CD-ROM is worthless. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. The most useful program will be continually improved until it is useless. From optimus at canit.se Tue Feb 20 20:25:02 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <521.452T100T2053265optimus@canit.se> Will Jennings skrev: >What kind of an HP 1000 uses those? Must be an A-series, the M/E/F machines >certainly don't... The 9000/800 series certainly do, can't speak for earlier >systems.. Hm, we've only last week revived a HP 9000/822. Can that monstrosity really be Nubus? I thought it was something more HP-specific, something like HPIB or GIO, whatever that is. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Feb 20 21:47:07 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010220194707.009ce6c0@192.168.42.129> At 21:39 20-02-2001 -0500, Jeff H. wrote: > Well, UPS struck again. In the past they've managed to >destroy any number of monitors, including a Tandy CM1 and a DEC >VR201. Today a Blue/white G3 that I ordered arrived, packed in all Suggestion: FedEx bought out RPS, which became FedEx Ground. I've been shipping with them for months, and I've yet to have anything damaged. Their customer service has been good as well. Good luck on your insurance claim. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Tue Feb 20 22:07:00 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: <521.452T100T2053265optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010220230700.006f53d4@obregon.multi.net.co> At 03:25 AM 2/21/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >Will Jennings skrev: > >>What kind of an HP 1000 uses those? Must be an A-series, the M/E/F machines >>certainly don't... The 9000/800 series certainly do, can't speak for earlier >>systems.. > >Hm, we've only last week revived a HP 9000/822. Can that monstrosity really be >Nubus? I thought it was something more HP-specific, something like HPIB or >GIO, whatever that is. Hmmm... I used an HP827 quite a bit ca. '88-'89... it certainly didn't look NuBus to me.... That 827 did not have a float accelerator. I was delighted at the time that my IIT 20MHz fpu for my 20 MHz 286 was almost as fast for floating point as the HP827 (about 0.6 MFlops :-) ). Carlos. From nemo at net.house.cx Tue Feb 20 22:13:55 2001 From: nemo at net.house.cx (nemo@net.house.cx) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: <1413.452T50T2153711optimus@canit.se>; from optimus@canit.se on Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 03:35:01AM +0100 References: <3.0.1.16.20010220124016.25bf9ed4@mailhost.intellistar.net> <1413.452T50T2153711optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010221151355.A23563@net.house.cx> On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 03:35:01AM +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > >>17. You have more computer CD's than music CD's. > > Yes. It's a shame there is no LP-ROM. I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I think I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like that. On the other hand, have you seen: http://www.vinylvideo.com/ :) .../Nemo From optimus at canit.se Tue Feb 20 22:46:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: <20010221151355.A23563@net.house.cx> Message-ID: <817.452T2150T3465475optimus@canit.se> nemo skrev: >On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 03:35:01AM +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >> >>17. You have more computer CD's than music CD's. >> >> Yes. It's a shame there is no LP-ROM. >I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I >think I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like >that. Actually, I once saw an ad for a UK magazine which had a multi-format flexidisc insteqad of a cover tape. Why not? >On the other hand, have you seen: >http://www.vinylvideo.com/ :) Why, that is absolutely lovely! There was a similar contraption which recorded on standard cassette tape a couple of years ago. Apparently, it was a popular effect in rock videos. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 20 23:17:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes References: Message-ID: <000c01c09bc5$9ae16820$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I once sent a then cutting edge SCSI tape drive to a repair facility for a fix via UPS. When the work (costing $600) was done, they sent the drive back to me, packed in a white cardboard box with a very readable label, insured for $600 which is what was owed them. When the UPS guy delivered it, I was still at work, so instead of putting the package somewhere out of the way or delivering it the next day, the package was left in the driveway where it led into the covered portion of the carport. It was snowing that afternoon (UPS delivers at about 1:30 p.m.) and by the time I got home, there were several inches of snow on the driveway and package. A couple of days later, I found the package, tire tracks and all, and the drive was rubbish. I've not shipped even one item with UPS since then. I've always had the impression they really figure they can afford to pay for whatever is insured and to hell with the rest. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 7:39 PM Subject: UPS woes > Well, UPS struck again. In the past they've managed to > destroy any number of monitors, including a Tandy CM1 and a DEC > VR201. Today a Blue/white G3 that I ordered arrived, packed in all > the original styrofoam and stuff and they still managed to break the > casing into numerous pieces. They must have really tossed it around > to cause the damage that was done. Needless to say, in the future > I'll be doing everything I can to avoid using UPS. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From russ at rbcs.8m.com Tue Feb 20 23:14:55 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010220194707.009ce6c0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: UPS has been great with me and I ship/recieve things almost daily. A lot of what I hear being damaged is in certain destinations like large cities in California and Chciago, and others. It may be that the UPS drivers/handlers in those areas are excessively rough. CRT's are a bad thing to ship as it is. No amount of foam, bubble wrap, etc is going to support the neck of the tube in a crash to the ground with an instant stop, and if airlifted any fine crack becomes a leak. I hated RPS. We figured out that RPS didn't stand for Roadway Package System but Really Pathetic Shipping. They lost stuff, broke it, etc. I just found out myself that FedEx bought out RPS and canned a bunch of non-conformists and made the others reform if they wanted to stay. I was wondering why I'd see RPS tractors pulling FedEx trailers while driving to job sites - and I found out why. I've had no problem with FedEx but when I try to compare shipping rats UPS always wins out by more than just a little. If I have to get something there yesterday then I bite the bullet and go the extra for FedEx. Also since I don't do a regular enough amount of traffic to get a daily stop and therefore don't have to pay UPS a daily/weekly fee, I can check either but found out that in my rural area FedEx will drop off all you want but won't pickup without an account. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:47 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: UPS woes At 21:39 20-02-2001 -0500, Jeff H. wrote: > Well, UPS struck again. In the past they've managed to >destroy any number of monitors, including a Tandy CM1 and a DEC >VR201. Today a Blue/white G3 that I ordered arrived, packed in all Suggestion: FedEx bought out RPS, which became FedEx Ground. I've been shipping with them for months, and I've yet to have anything damaged. Their customer service has been good as well. Good luck on your insurance claim. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From russ at rbcs.8m.com Tue Feb 20 23:14:58 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For a really fun shipping experience, try the postal service for those delicate and heavy items - especially if you want to be able to claim it. Guaranteed breakage of 30% from what I've had experiences with them. If it can't be drop-kicked across the room in it's box and survive then USPS doesn't get even a 1 lb item. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 8:40 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: UPS woes Well, UPS struck again. In the past they've managed to destroy any number of monitors, including a Tandy CM1 and a DEC VR201. Today a Blue/white G3 that I ordered arrived, packed in all the original styrofoam and stuff and they still managed to break the casing into numerous pieces. They must have really tossed it around to cause the damage that was done. Needless to say, in the future I'll be doing everything I can to avoid using UPS. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Feb 21 00:24:08 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes References: Message-ID: <008f01c09bce$e6a03080$ba9eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> I had a fairly well-packed IBM 5151 monitor arrive recently via UPS with the case in pieces with the CRT broken. Very sad. FedEx ground is by far the best here in Southern Cal. With UPS, the box invariably arrives trashed. With FedEx service here, the box is almost always clean with sharp corners. I'm sure this will change, however, as the large package volume at FedEx increases. -W > For a really fun shipping experience, try the postal service for those > delicate and heavy items - especially if you want to be able to claim it. > Guaranteed breakage of 30% from what I've had experiences with them. If it > can't be drop-kicked across the room in it's box and survive then USPS > doesn't get even a 1 lb item. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 8:40 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: UPS woes > > > Well, UPS struck again. In the past they've managed to > destroy any number of monitors, including a Tandy CM1 and a DEC > VR201. Today a Blue/white G3 that I ordered arrived, packed in all > the original styrofoam and stuff and they still managed to break the > casing into numerous pieces. They must have really tossed it around > to cause the damage that was done. Needless to say, in the future > I'll be doing everything I can to avoid using UPS. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Feb 21 01:25:41 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: <20010221151355.A23563@net.house.cx> Message-ID: > > I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I think > I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like that. > ...so what's the capacity? :) g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Feb 21 01:28:07 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: <817.452T2150T3465475optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > >I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I > >think I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like > >that. > > Actually, I once saw an ad for a UK magazine which had a multi-format > flexidisc insteqad of a cover tape. Why not? > I seem to recall way back when seeing magazines with "floppy" plastic records in them that you'd play into your computers tape jack to load the software. ISTR something for the TRS-80 Model I and the KIM-1.... g. From nemo at net.house.cx Wed Feb 21 02:19:03 2001 From: nemo at net.house.cx (nemo@net.house.cx) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: ; from geneb@deltasoft.com on Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:25:41PM -0800 References: <20010221151355.A23563@net.house.cx> Message-ID: <20010221191903.A23783@net.house.cx> On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:25:41PM -0800, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I think > > I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like that. > > ...so what's the capacity? :) Oh, I forgot to mention I'd forgotten that I have no modern idea? :) OK, let's work this through, and forgive me any bad assumptions, incorrect foundation information, or faulty analysis ;) Because vinyls are fundamentally an audio media[1], we need an audio->digital conversion system. To use modems as a base - v.42 I think is the 33.6k standard?33600bps = 4.2KB/s. This works out to 252KB/minute. What is the audio length of a vinyl? I'm not sure, but if we make a nice round 60 minute, then we're looking at about 15meg. Now, that's not the end of the story. v.42 is designed for modems - duplex. LProms would be a read-only system. Also, the figure of 33300bps is based on a modem audio resolution of 2400baud. I don't know the audio resolution of an LP, but if I had to guess, I'd put the figure as higher than 2400. So we're increasing capacity already. In a similar vein, you could run the LP at 15rpm, rather than the normal 33rpm, to reduce the resolution, while increasing the length. I'm sure there would be an ideal somewhere between those two tradeoffs :) Next up, we look at the modulation/demodulation to use. We'll want a compression that takes best advantage of the medium. (I suspect v.42 is not it!). Lastly, LP's are stereo - so that either immediately doubles our capacity (assuming L and R can be kept 100% independant. If they can't be guaranteed to be kept seperate, then I'm sure capacity could still be increased by using L and R as checksums against each other or something ;) Problems with LProms are quality of reading - you run a very real risk of bitrot if your needle is of poor quality. Also, you'll need some way to sync the end of sideA with the start of sideB - there is some data loss there. (this could probably be kept to a minimum by using the leadin/leadout areas :) So, did I have an answer in all that? I'm pretty sure you'd get 15meg on a vinyl easily, and could quadruple that figure with a bit of effort :) .../Nemo [1] If digital data can be recorded directly to vinyl, and more importantly, read from the vinyl, then this entire analysis is meaningless :) From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Feb 21 03:58:04 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Fixing VT220s Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD1761D2@exchange.softwright.co.uk> > This is a common 'stock fault' with these units, and seems to always be I was hoping that was the case :-) Seems like a lot of 80's display hardware have common ways of failing. > caused by bad contacts at the horizontal hold preset. I've lost count of > the number I have fixed by the following procedure... yep - that was exactly the problem - I found that out more by accident than anything before reading your reply :) I pulled the case off and just went to tweak the horizontal hold pot to see what effect it had on the display (to try to track down the fault a bit further) and the display choked into life as soon as I touched it. now I just need to make a suitable comms lead, I seem to have lost all of mine :) cheers Jules -- From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Feb 21 08:24:47 2001 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes References: <000c01c09bc5$9ae16820$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A93CFAF.A0989434@timharrison.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > When the UPS guy delivered it, I was still at work, so instead of putting the > package somewhere out of the way or delivering it the next day, the package was > left in the driveway where it led into the covered portion of the carport. It I've been fortunate since moving back to the US. My workplace is about a 10 minute walk from my old apartment, so the UPS guy who used to deliver to my home still delivers to my work. Since I live in the next city over, we've got a different UPS guy for home. However, my work UPS guy keeps tabs on my home UPS guy. He tells me if he's going to be late delivering, if the package is damaged or not, and has offered several times to bring my packages to work for me, on the off chance that the home UPS guy goes on vacation. It pays to be friendly with your delivery people. Even if they can't stop the guy at the airport from playing Ace Ventura with your package, they can at least make part of the trip smooth for you. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 21 08:20:00 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: <817.452T2150T3465475optimus@canit.se> References: <20010221151355.A23563@net.house.cx> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010221081616.02937d50@pc> At 05:46 AM 2/21/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >Why, that is absolutely lovely! There was a similar contraption which recorded >on standard cassette tape a couple of years ago. Apparently, it was a popular >effect in rock videos. eBay says: PXL 2000 Pixelvision camera by Fisher Price goes for $200-$400 each these days. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 21 08:23:59 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes In-Reply-To: <000c01c09bc5$9ae16820$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010221082102.0297acb0@pc> At 10:17 PM 2/20/01 -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: >When the UPS guy delivered it, I was still at work, so instead of putting the >package somewhere out of the way or delivering it the next day, the package was >left in the driveway where it led into the covered portion of the carport. That's 100% UPS policy for residential delivery: they can leave it seemingly anywhere unless the sender has paid extra for signature verification. My favorite location is in the bushes, where it will be found months later after the weather has attacked it. (For those of you in California, "weather" can be things like rain, the frozen rain we call "snow", etc.) Think about the alternative: UPS trucks driving endlessly to attempt to deliver packages to residential addresses where no one is there to accept the package... - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 21 09:34:40 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Boot disk In-Reply-To: <003301c09b7f$8b655640$07168bd1@4> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010221103440.3567e86e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi Bob, I have several PIIIs. I can't find the original disk but I found that one of the the PIIIs still has Compaq DOS 3 on it so I created a boot disk on it and loaded the setup files and part of the DOS files on it. I've made a copy of that disk using Teledisk. I'll e-mail it to you. You'll need a copy of Teledisk to un-archive it. Do you have a copy? BTW the original disk is a 1.2Mb 5 1/4" floppy. If anyone else wants a copy, let me know and send me your address. FWIW you can run MS-DOS on the PIII but the Compaq setup utilities wouldn't run unless you're running Compaq DOS. I did find that one of the other trouble shooting programs (AMIDAIG ?) would run on it and allow you to edit the CMOS settings. Joe At 03:54 PM 2/20/01 -0500, you wrote: >Sirs: > >Adrian Graham at the Online Computer Museum recommended I contact your group >to try to locate a disk for my Compaq Portable 3. I realize it falls into >the dinosaur category but someone gave it to me and the challenge of getting >it operational was too much to bear. >When it finishes counting all 640K of memory, it reminds me to use a setup >disk or hit "F1". When I do that, it mentions there is a non-system or bad >disk. Then the message keeps repeating when trying various type of DOS disks >I have. I have the feeling Compaq uses something like DOS but I have none of >those OS disks. >Any help would be appreciated. > >Thank you, > >Bob Schoppe > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 21 08:56:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010221082102.0297acb0@pc> Message-ID: <000f01c09c16$8779e4a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Years ago, when I had someplace for them to leave the packages, they didn't. Instead, they'd leave a notice with a number one could call to arrange to pick the package up one'sself, or to arrange delivery to an alternative address. It makes me wonder how many packages I've not received just because the local hooligans thought it would be fun to kick it down the road. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:23 AM Subject: Re: UPS woes > At 10:17 PM 2/20/01 -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >When the UPS guy delivered it, I was still at work, so instead of putting the > >package somewhere out of the way or delivering it the next day, the package was > >left in the driveway where it led into the covered portion of the carport. > > That's 100% UPS policy for residential delivery: they can leave it > seemingly anywhere unless the sender has paid extra for > signature verification. My favorite location is in the bushes, > where it will be found months later after the weather has > attacked it. (For those of you in California, "weather" can > be things like rain, the frozen rain we call "snow", etc.) > > Think about the alternative: UPS trucks driving endlessly to > attempt to deliver packages to residential addresses where > no one is there to accept the package... > > - John > > From oliv555 at arrl.net Wed Feb 21 09:09:43 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes References: <3.0.5.32.20010220194707.009ce6c0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3A93DA37.34687C79@arrl.net> Bruce Lane wrote: > > At 21:39 20-02-2001 -0500, Jeff H. wrote: > > > Well, UPS struck again. In the past they've managed to > >destroy any number of monitors, including a Tandy CM1 and a DEC > >VR201. Today a Blue/white G3 that I ordered arrived, packed in all > > > > Suggestion: FedEx bought out RPS, which became FedEx Ground. I've been > shipping with them for months, and I've yet to have anything damaged. Their > customer service has been good as well. > > Good luck on your insurance claim. > RPS managed to break a DEC PWS-500a which I bought on eBay a few months back. But in their favor, Fedex did settle all my costs (including shipping) within 6 weeks. I've heard UPS can be a brick wall when it comes to claims. nick o From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 21 09:49:18 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) Message-ID: No, I wasn't saying it *used* nubus, only that it uses a similar kind of connector, sorry for the confusion. I highly doubt it uses nubus. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Wed Feb 21 12:01:20 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. Message-ID: <000701c09c30$4c41fc50$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> >contraption which recorded on Punch Cards Spools of Wire Magnetized Cardboard Photosensitive Film Clear plastic disks Audio Cassettes VHS Cassettes encased 1/2 size CDR's ...Fluidic Logic Gates . . . . I think this thread mainly illustrates (with great examples, THANKS) the difference between what's feasible and what's marketable. Let's face it, a good engineer can get anything to do anything else but when its' considered a success is when a million or more people can do it with a single push of a button. (And for less than a weeks salary). John A. (check out the price of those VidLP's Yike) From menadeau at mediaone.net Wed Feb 21 12:22:55 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Bricklin and Frankston win Washington Award References: <000701c09c30$4c41fc50$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> Message-ID: <0d6c01c09c33$52a53dc0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Saw this on Businesswire this morning: http://ny-web1.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?day0/210520216&ticker = --Mike From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 21 12:43:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: <1413.452T50T2153711optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Feb 21, 1 03:35:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 598 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010221/6e87b26d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 21 12:47:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Fixing VT220s In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD1761D2@exchange.softwright.co.uk> from "Julian Richardson" at Feb 21, 1 09:58:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 740 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010221/758a0664/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 21 13:04:59 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Pictures of first Dutch computer collectors meeting available In-Reply-To: <20010220075315.0B5A920F82@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: <3A941F6B.4914.25C1B989@localhost> > It gives me great pleasure to let you know that the first meeting > of computer collectors in The Netherlands was a great success. > We have our own mailing list in the Dutch language, cvml@egroups.com, > and on this list the plan grew for the members to actually meet in > person and bring some nice computers to show to fellow collectors and > tell stories about them. A venue was found in Rotterdam and last > saturday it all happened. Not too many people visited, but those that > did had a great time, and in about half a year another meeting will > be held. Pictures of the first meeting can be seen at Great. I have to blame my absence on some business facts :( You had some realy neat pices. Especialy the DAI ... I'm searching one for years. Like the P2000, which I had only seen in a magazine 20 years ago, but lucky me dida successfull dumpster dive just 4 weeks ago .... an almost complete P2000, includeing the disk unit - some cracks and scratches, but it seams to work. Servus Hans BTW: Does the P2000 owner have some boot disks by chance ? -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Feb 21 13:07:52 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: <20010221191903.A23783@net.house.cx> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 nemo@net.house.cx wrote: > On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:25:41PM -0800, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > I actually worked out the approximate holding capacity of an LP once - I think > > > I assumed digital->audo modulation to be v.34 or v.42 - something like that. > > [1] If digital data can be recorded directly to vinyl, and more importantly, > read from the vinyl, then this entire analysis is meaningless :) Well... while not quite digital, a classis example of LP as data transport is one of Tomita's albums (can't recall which one at this precise moment) which has a message embedded in one of the tracks. All one needs to extract it is a Tarbell S-100 Cassette Interface and the appropriate cables. I did it some many years back. Don't recall the message content but it was amusing. Still have the album... and the board... Hmmm... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original 'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated. From optimus at canit.se Wed Feb 21 12:52:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: Nubus (was CC-40) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <269.452T1800T11924981optimus@canit.se> Will Jennings skrev: >No, I wasn't saying it *used* nubus, only that it uses a similar kind of >connector, sorry for the confusion. I highly doubt it uses nubus. VME? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r v?rt enda reciproka pronomen. From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 21 15:22:42 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: UPS woes In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010221082102.0297acb0@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, John Foust wrote: > At 10:17 PM 2/20/01 -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >When the UPS guy delivered it, I was still at work, so instead of putting the > >package somewhere out of the way or delivering it the next day, the package was > >left in the driveway where it led into the covered portion of the carport. > > That's 100% UPS policy for residential delivery: they can leave it > seemingly anywhere unless the sender has paid extra for > signature verification. My favorite location is in the bushes, > where it will be found months later after the weather has > attacked it. (For those of you in California, "weather" can > be things like rain, the frozen rain we call "snow", etc.) > > Think about the alternative: UPS trucks driving endlessly to > attempt to deliver packages to residential addresses where > no one is there to accept the package... > > - John > Not too many years ago, they used to leave a little yellow form advising that they would try again on the following day or you could call the distribution site and arrange to pick it up yourself. Presumably, they have concluded that paying claims under the current system is less costly than under the old. - don From mark_k at iname.com Tue Feb 20 20:34:44 2001 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: CC-40 Message-ID: Hi, On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > What I'd like to know is how compatible the Mac NuBus is with the > S1500 implementation. That is, can you take Mac NuBus cards and use them > in an S1500, given Unix drivers for them? Also to this end, which Mac > cards are likely to have driver sources and/or complete technical > specifications available to a peon hacker? Mostly interested in TIGA A Mac I bought some time ago has a ComputerEyes video capture NuBus board, made by Digital Vision. From memory, this contains only standard chips, so it should be relatively easy to reverse-engineer. If anyone knows where to get Mac driver software for this board, *please* let me know. Digital Vision are no longer around. -- Mark From foo at siconic.com Wed Feb 21 14:25:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:46 2005 Subject: You may be a geek if. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote: > Well... while not quite digital, a classis example of LP as data > transport is one of Tomita's albums (can't recall which one at this > precise moment) which has a message embedded in one of the tracks. > > All one needs to extract it is a Tarbell S-100 Cassette Interface and the > appropriate cables. > > I did it some many years back. Don't recall the message content but it > was amusing. Still have the album... and the board... Hmmm... Sounds like the makings of one very cool VCF 5.0 presentation, Jimbo! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Feb