From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sat Dec 1 06:29:49 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: Off Topic - stereo to PC question In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20011201001259.018ec10c@obregon.multi.net.co> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20011130162018.00b04810@pop3.norton.antivirus> <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146730B@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011201072912.00adf850@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 12:12 AM 12/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >what kind of audio outputs does your system have? Just speaker connections and headphone jack. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 1 11:23:44 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: Off Topic - stereo to PC question References: <4.3.2.7.2.20011130162018.00b04810@pop3.norton.antivirus> <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146730B@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20011201072912.00adf850@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <003e01c17a8c$ee01f3c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've never seen a sound card that didn't have the means to convert "speaker" outputs to "line" outputs in some way or other, mostly with jumpers. I don't for a minute doubt that they exist, but if you look, you may find that there are a couple of jumper that bypass the audio amplifier. Likewise, there should be some line inputs somewhere. (I suppose a motherboard with integrated audio might not have these option. The microphones that they use with most PC's are of such low quality that they're suitable only for speech, but the codecs are capable of much more. A look at the manual, if there is one, might shed light. My setup, which I've used for years for transcribing my old vinyls and open reel tapes to CD, has separate outs and ins for all these purposes, but I've heard of folks having to put attenuators on the microphone inputs. The tape outputs from your stereo should do fine. I normally use the TAPE-2 in and out jacks on my stereo for transcription purposes, hooking them to line in and line out at the PC. What troubles me is that there seems to be no software that really works to control shot noise. Various packages introduce all forms of distrortion, but I've never seen/heard one that improves anything. Sad, isn't it? If you find your system really doesn't support anything beyond just the speaker out and microphone in, you can probably get by with the microphone inputs, but need to put a couple of resistors in parallel with the speaker/headphone ouputs, and attempt, by whatever means are available, to set the outputs to a 200 mV p-p range by the choice of those resistors, taking your output from the junction between them. Impedance matching isn't terribly important, since the inputs at the PC are high-impedance, but the voltage levels have to be controlled to avoid clipping. Have you considered disabling the audio arrangement you have installed and replacing it, at least temporarily, with something over which you have more control? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" To: Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 5:29 AM Subject: Re: Off Topic - stereo to PC question > At 12:12 AM 12/1/01 -0500, you wrote: > >what kind of audio outputs does your system have? > > Just speaker connections and headphone jack. > > > From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Sat Dec 1 20:55:43 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: Off Topic - stereo to PC question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20011201072912.00adf850@pop3.norton.antivirus> References: <3.0.2.32.20011201001259.018ec10c@obregon.multi.net.co> <4.3.2.7.2.20011130162018.00b04810@pop3.norton.antivirus> <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146730B@yalepress3.unipre ss.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20011201215543.019062fc@obregon.multi.net.co> At 07:29 AM 12/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >At 12:12 AM 12/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >>what kind of audio outputs does your system have? > >Just speaker connections and headphone jack. Assuming that your sound card has line level inputs, you can probably connect the headphone outputs directly to the soundcard, although I would prefer something like this, one for each channel 1K --------------------/\/\/\/\/\-----------> | head \ phone / 100 to output \ soundcard / line level | input -----------------------------------------> Set the volume output in your stereo system about 25% of the way and see if the signal is large enough that you can control it with the record level control of the soundcard so that you reach appropriate signal levels. The idea is to use the linear range of the amplifier fully to maximize S/N, but not higher than that because otherwise THD climbs up. Too bad that you don't have a line level output. Then, locate the loudest percussive sound in your tape, and set the recording level as high as possible but so that there is no clipping. Clipping is very easy to recognize for the trained ear; just play it back and see if it is not clipped. If you aren't sure about whether what you hear is clipped sound or something else, you'll need to record the excerpt several times and look at the waveform using a wave editor (I recommend Goldwave) for evidence of clipping. You'll soon learn to identify it. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 1 13:04:21 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question : Message-ID: >From: Michael Maginnis >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: History of Computing exam question : >Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:41:31 -0700 > > >> >>List the 20 to 30 systems you would display and briefly explain the >>reason for choosing each. Okay, I think I can do that, in (more or less) chronological order no less! 1: Xerox Alto Reason: Because, after all, where would the GUI have come from without this thing? 2: IBM 5100 Reason: To show that, just because it was IBM, & it was the frist intergrated computer (sans printer), the people will not always buy it. Also I think the $16,384 price tag may have had something to do with it, I don't know. 3 & 4: Altair 8800 & IMSAI 8080 (respectively) Reason: The first commercially available computers, & to illustrate that the clone wars did not start in the 80's, they started much earlier than that. 5. Apple I Reason: Pretty self explanitory. 6, 7, & 8. Apple ][, Commodore PET, TRS-80 Model I (respectively) Reason: After all, these were "The Big Three", weren't they? 9. Compucolor Reason: (Allegedly) The first computer to inexpensively offer color graphics. 10. CBM 4032 Reason: Commodore's most famous (infamous?) business computer. 11. Apple ][+ Reason: Finally, Apple's figuring out how to be a computer company! 12. TI-99/4 Reason: TI's first foray in the computer market, as if anyone cared. 13. Commodore VIC-20 Reason: "The friendly color computer that anyone can afford" --William Shatner. 14. TI-99/4A Reason: To show that it is not a good idea to hire a pitchman who sells Jell-o and (New) Coke. 15. Commodore 64 Reason: Requires no explanation. 16. GRiD Compass 1100 Reason: I would think that the first clamshell laptop should deserve a place in computer history! 17. Apple LISA Reason: Sometimes Apple can just way too ahead of themselves. 18. TRS-80 Model 100 Reason: When these things came out, who didn't own one? 19. Otrona Attache Reason: Wow! A small "luggable", how about that! 20. Apple Macintosh Reason: "On January 24th, Apple will introduce Macintosh. And you will see why 1984 won't be like *1984*" 21. Commodore Amiga Reason: And you thought Macintosh pioneered multimedia! 22. NeXT Cube Reason: Who would have thought a black cube for a CPU would look so cool? 23. Apple Macintosh Portable Reason: Portable? Riiiiiiight! 24. Atari Portfolio Reason: Now you know where your PDA came from. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. "Scout": Otrona Attache. ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From vance at ikickass.org Sat Dec 1 13:51:35 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (One Without Reason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question : In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You really like micros, don't you... what about systems like the Sperry-Rand UNIVAC? It was one of the first computers you could just order. It wasn't one-of-a-kind like a lot of earlier machines. The Altair and the IMSAI weren't even close to being the first commercially available, computer. Peace... Sridhar On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, David Vohs wrote: > Okay, I think I can do that, in (more or less) chronological order no less! > > 1: Xerox Alto > Reason: Because, after all, where would the GUI have come from without this > thing? > > 2: IBM 5100 > Reason: To show that, just because it was IBM, & it was the frist > intergrated computer (sans printer), the people will not always buy it. Also > I think the $16,384 price tag may have had something to do with it, I don't > know. > > 3 & 4: Altair 8800 & IMSAI 8080 (respectively) > Reason: The first commercially available computers, & to illustrate that the > clone wars did not start in the 80's, they started much earlier than that. > > 5. Apple I > Reason: Pretty self explanitory. > > 6, 7, & 8. Apple ][, Commodore PET, TRS-80 Model I (respectively) > Reason: After all, these were "The Big Three", weren't they? > > 9. Compucolor > Reason: (Allegedly) The first computer to inexpensively offer color > graphics. > > 10. CBM 4032 > Reason: Commodore's most famous (infamous?) business computer. > > 11. Apple ][+ > Reason: Finally, Apple's figuring out how to be a computer company! > > 12. TI-99/4 > Reason: TI's first foray in the computer market, as if anyone cared. > > 13. Commodore VIC-20 > Reason: "The friendly color computer that anyone can afford" --William > Shatner. > > 14. TI-99/4A > Reason: To show that it is not a good idea to hire a pitchman who sells > Jell-o and (New) Coke. > > 15. Commodore 64 > Reason: Requires no explanation. > > 16. GRiD Compass 1100 > Reason: I would think that the first clamshell laptop should deserve a > place in computer history! > > 17. Apple LISA > Reason: Sometimes Apple can just way too ahead of themselves. > > 18. TRS-80 Model 100 > Reason: When these things came out, who didn't own one? > > 19. Otrona Attache > Reason: Wow! A small "luggable", how about that! > > 20. Apple Macintosh > Reason: "On January 24th, Apple will introduce Macintosh. And you will see > why 1984 won't be like *1984*" > > 21. Commodore Amiga > Reason: And you thought Macintosh pioneered multimedia! > > 22. NeXT Cube > Reason: Who would have thought a black cube for a CPU would look so cool? > > 23. Apple Macintosh Portable > Reason: Portable? Riiiiiiight! > > 24. Atari Portfolio > Reason: Now you know where your PDA came from. > ____________________________________________________________ > David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. > Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ > > Computer Collection: > > "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. > "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. > "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. > "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. > "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. > "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. > "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82. > "Shapeshifter": Epson QX-10, Titan graphics & MS-DOS board, Comrex HDD. > "Scout": Otrona Attache. > ____________________________________________________________ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Sat Dec 1 22:13:14 2001 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question : In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011202150828.025793f0@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 02:51 PM 1/12/2001 -0500, One Without Reason wrote: >You really like micros, don't you... what about systems like the >Sperry-Rand UNIVAC? It was one of the first computers you could just >order. It wasn't one-of-a-kind like a lot of earlier machines. The >Altair and the IMSAI weren't even close to being the first commercially >available, computer. Well to add one or more larger systems: 1) Ferranti Atlas 2) IBM 360 3) KDF-9 4) GE 635 Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Dec 1 02:08:00 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet In-Reply-To: M H Stein's message of "Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:43:39 -0500" References: <01C17A09.A06EE100@mse-d03> Message-ID: <200112010808.fB1880d33750@daemonweed.reanimators.org> M H Stein wrote: > Does anybody know anything about the HD interface bus Cromemco used > with their early IMI drives (7012 - 8" with transparent cover, 5007, > 5018 & 5021 5 1/2") and the WDI/WDI-II controllers? I'm just curious > if the same interface was used in any other systems (single 34 pin > header, 7 units max, differential servo clock supplied by drive, so > it doesn't look like SA1000). Yes, Corvus used these drives. I'd expect Onyx did too; the story is that the VC who funded IMI also funded Onyx and Corvus so that IMI would have customers. It's interesting to know that Cromemco used them too. I'm sitting here looking at a photocopy of a data sheet of sorts for the IMI 7710, and it does provide some description of the interface. 25 signals on a 34-line bus. I suspect it's somewhere between "more than I want to type" and "less than you need to know to use the drive", because I can't quite figure out how you would transfer a block of data to the drive from what's printed here. > Interesting aside: when Cromemco finally went the ST506 route with the > STDC controller, they made a replacement HD board available to convert the > IMI 5 1/2" drives to a standard ST506 interface. Neat! > Finally, I also have a Corvus S-100 board; looks like it might be a > host adapter for a disk drive of some sort. Only markings are > Corvus S-100, 8008 REV K, copyright 1980; 11 TTL chips & a 34 pin > header. Anybody know what it is and/or want it? Yes, that's the Corvus hard disk interface for S-100, p/n 8010-08008-00. I could be interested in it. -Frank McConnell From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 1 11:28:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet References: <01C17A09.A06EE100@mse-d03> <200112010808.fB1880d33750@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <004e01c17a8d$a16039e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I had a couple of IMI drives back in the '80's and find, from my doc's that they were, in fact, ST506 compatible. I wonder if the drives you're seeing in your brocheure are earlier than that. The 8" Quantum drives all provided a clock on the data cable, that could be used to recover data. I'm not exactly sure how this was intended to be used, but several controllers for 8" drives relied on it, not having a PLL on board. The Shugart drives apparently didn't provide this clock. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank McConnell" To: Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 1:08 AM Subject: Re: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet > M H Stein wrote: > > Does anybody know anything about the HD interface bus Cromemco used > > with their early IMI drives (7012 - 8" with transparent cover, 5007, > > 5018 & 5021 5 1/2") and the WDI/WDI-II controllers? I'm just curious > > if the same interface was used in any other systems (single 34 pin > > header, 7 units max, differential servo clock supplied by drive, so > > it doesn't look like SA1000). > > Yes, Corvus used these drives. I'd expect Onyx did too; the story is > that the VC who funded IMI also funded Onyx and Corvus so that IMI > would have customers. It's interesting to know that Cromemco used > them too. > > I'm sitting here looking at a photocopy of a data sheet of sorts for > the IMI 7710, and it does provide some description of the interface. > 25 signals on a 34-line bus. I suspect it's somewhere between "more > than I want to type" and "less than you need to know to use the > drive", because I can't quite figure out how you would transfer a > block of data to the drive from what's printed here. > > > Interesting aside: when Cromemco finally went the ST506 route with the > > STDC controller, they made a replacement HD board available to convert the > > IMI 5 1/2" drives to a standard ST506 interface. > > Neat! > > > Finally, I also have a Corvus S-100 board; looks like it might be a > > host adapter for a disk drive of some sort. Only markings are > > Corvus S-100, 8008 REV K, copyright 1980; 11 TTL chips & a 34 pin > > header. Anybody know what it is and/or want it? > > Yes, that's the Corvus hard disk interface for S-100, p/n > 8010-08008-00. I could be interested in it. > > -Frank McConnell > > From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Dec 1 13:48:55 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher"'s message of "Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:28:45 -0700" References: <01C17A09.A06EE100@mse-d03> <200112010808.fB1880d33750@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <004e01c17a8d$a16039e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200112011948.fB1Jmtr55940@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > I had a couple of IMI drives back in the '80's and find, from my > doc's that they were, in fact, ST506 compatible. I wonder if the > drives you're seeing in your brocheure are earlier than that. I believe they are. The photocopied brochure pages are stapled to photocopied pages from a 7710 disc drive specification manual, and those latter pages are dated 1/79 and 5/79. -Frank McConnell From mhstein at usa.net Sat Dec 1 19:17:54 2001 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet Message-ID: <01C17AAA.360C76A0@mse-d03> Thanks for the interesting info, Frank. I thought that Corvus had used these drives because I've got Corvus ads from old Bytes and they certainly do look like these 7710's; not much else looks like these babies. But although I've seen a reference to ANSI X3T9, I gather that the interface was proprietary to IMI. Don't need the docs for the interface, but thanks for mentioning that you've got some; I've got a manual for the controller from the good old days when manuals actually told you something, as well as calibration notes for the drives, and am about to check out the drives before I get rid of them. I was just curious if the controllers are of any use for any other drives since I have more controllers than drives. If you want the Corvus board, send me a note off list & let me know where you are. mike -------------------Original Message---------------- Date: 01 Dec 2001 00:08:00 -0800 From: Frank McConnell Subject: Re: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet M H Stein wrote: > Does anybody know anything about the HD interface bus Cromemco used > with their early IMI drives Yes, Corvus used these drives. I'd expect Onyx did too; the story is that the VC who funded IMI also funded Onyx and Corvus so that IMI would have customers. It's interesting to know that Cromemco used them too. I'm sitting here looking at a photocopy of a data sheet of sorts for the IMI 7710, and it does provide some description of the interface. 25 signals on a 34-line bus. I suspect it's somewhere between "more than I want to type" and "less than you need to know to use the drive", because I can't quite figure out how you would transfer a block of data to the drive from what's printed here. > Finally, I also have a Corvus S-100 board; looks like it might be a > host adapter for a disk drive of some sort. Only markings are > Corvus S-100, 8008 REV K, copyright 1980; 11 TTL chips & a 34 pin > header. Anybody know what it is and/or want it? Yes, that's the Corvus hard disk interface for S-100, p/n 8010-08008-00. I could be interested in it. - -Frank McConnell From mhstein at usa.net Sat Dec 1 19:53:18 2001 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet Message-ID: <01C17AAA.3A0ACD60@mse-d03> As far as I can tell, IMI originally used a proprietary interface but when IBM came into the game they switched over to ST506 and IMI drives were in fact put into some AT's; same HDA but a different PCB. I have various versions of the 5014/5018/5021drives and have in fact switched boards back & forth. And yes, the drive clock signals were used for data transfer, at least by Cromemco; once the appropriate sector was located, data was clocked into/out of a shift register by the SysClk signal from the drive. m -----------------Original Message---------------- Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:28:45 -0700 From: "Richard Erlacher" Subject: Re: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet I had a couple of IMI drives back in the '80's and find, from my doc's that they were, in fact, ST506 compatible. I wonder if the drives you're seeing in your brocheure are earlier than that. The 8" Quantum drives all provided a clock on the data cable, that could be used to recover data. I'm not exactly sure how this was intended to be used, but several controllers for 8" drives relied on it, not having a PLL on board. The Shugart drives apparently didn't provide this clock. Dick From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Dec 1 01:40:06 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: Traf-o-data Message-ID: In a message dated 11/30/01 10:55:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, celt@chisp.net writes: > Traf-O-Data automatic traffic measuring device - Microsoft's first piece > of hardware > I would like to know more about this? What, When, Why, What happened to it? Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011201/7cd4442c/attachment.html From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Dec 1 10:41:42 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: Traf-o-data In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011201113055.00b22a38@mail.wincom.net> At 02:40 AM 12/1/2001 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 11/30/01 10:55:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, >celt@chisp.net writes: > > >>Traf-O-Data automatic traffic measuring device - Microsoft's first piece >>of hardware > > >I would like to know more about this? What, When, Why, What happened to it? > >Paxton >Astoria, OR From "Fire in the Valley, " page 31,32. Bill Gates got hold of an 8008, and with Paul Allen and Paul Gilbert, constructed a machine to generate traffic flow statistics using data collected by a sensor installed in a rubber tube strung across a highway. Software written by Allen and Gates. It took a year to get it working, and in 1972 they formed a company called Traf-O-Data. Unfortunately the device had to compete with a free service offered by the State of Washington, so was not very well received. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor, Ontario, Canada, N8Y3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 1 12:33:21 2001 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: Traf-o-data References: Message-ID: <002c01c17a96$a803f800$3a92a8c0@MAGGIE> Subject: Re: Traf-o-data In a message dated 11/30/01 10:55:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, celt@chisp.net writes: Traf-O-Data automatic traffic measuring device - Microsoft's first piece of hardware I would like to know more about this? What, When, Why, What happened to it? > Mentioned in several of Bill Gates' biographies, the Traf-O-Data > was a hand built, single purpose computer controlled traffic counter. > Details are sketchy - but I think I remember reading that it was > based on an Intel 8008 "single chip micro" which is something in itself > since it need a lot of support chips, strange voltages, clocks, memory etc. > Gate's intent was to sell it to municipal depts. to monitor and log traffic, > to/from roadside paper tape. Other accounts detail that it was only an interface > to read roadside punched paper tapes and process reports . The actual > hardware was rumoured to have been designed and built by a Boeing engineer, > on contract, and not by Bill as some sources state. > From the accounts I read, they were never successful in selling many units, > but they managed to make 20K$ on the work. > Gates himself wrote the software to run on a simulator Allen had written > to run on a PDP-10. The only significance of Traf-O-Data was that > the 8008 simulator was modified (greatly) to emulate an 8080 (on Harvard's > PDP-10s) and used to cobble together a small (<4K) BASIC interpreter from > public domain sources. The was demonstrated and sold to MITS for the > first Altair. That interpreter became the basis for most of Micro-soft's > (two words in those days) BASIC ROMS sold to many first generation > home microcomputer hardware companies such as Radio Shack, Commodore.. >timeframe - Traf-O-Data company founded 1972, became Micro Soft 1975 >why: Gates and Allen wanted their own software company >what happened to it? who know?I've not heard of any hardware that survived.. >cheers - heinz - Any additional info, corrections - please post! > ms-religious-fanatic arguments, Bill worhshippers -->> /dev/null :O From celt at chisp.net Sat Dec 1 22:47:58 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:30 2005 Subject: Traf-o-data References: Message-ID: <3C09B27E.8030705@chisp.net> Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/30/01 10:55:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, > celt@chisp.net writes: > > > Traf-O-Data automatic traffic measuring device - Microsoft's first > piece > of hardware > > > > I would like to know more about this? What, When, Why, What happened to it? > > Paxton > Astoria, OR More info on Traf-O-Data: http://bobrich.lexitech.com/gates/gates5.htm http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Gates.Mirick.html I guess it should be Micr-O-Soft, as well... Mike From mcruse at acm.org Sat Dec 1 02:20:14 2001 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E questions References: <003701c17555$7ad95d20$89ee9a8d@ajp166> <10111251057.ZM26482@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C0892BE.9030805@acm.org> Pete Turnbull wrote: > >In that case, I exercise my right to change my mind, and I think they >probably are the right way round. The air blown out of the PSU isn't very >warm, but it will presumably be warmer when I put lots of cards in and give >it more of a load. > The fans are blowing the right way. The filter was usually mount over the vents on the right side of the case if installed. That way when the filter foam finally hydrolized it got sucked into the case, just like RK05 drives... Don't worry, once you get a few cards in the machine you'll get plenty of heat pumping out the left side. Mike From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 1 03:36:29 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E questions In-Reply-To: Mike Cruse "Re: PDP-8/E questions" (Dec 1, 0:20) References: <003701c17555$7ad95d20$89ee9a8d@ajp166> <10111251057.ZM26482@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3C0892BE.9030805@acm.org> Message-ID: <10112010936.ZM2888@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 1, 0:20, Mike Cruse wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > >In that case, I exercise my right to change my mind, and I think they > >probably are the right way round. The air blown out of the PSU isn't very > >warm, but it will presumably be warmer when I put lots of cards in and give > >it more of a load. > > > The fans are blowing the right way. The filter was usually mount over > the vents on > the right side of the case if installed. That way when the filter foam > finally hydrolized > it got sucked into the case, just like RK05 drives... And most other mchines. Of course :-) > Don't worry, once you get a few cards in the machine you'll get plenty > of heat pumping out the left side. Got any spares so I can check? ;-) I'm looking for a TD8-E and an RX8-E in particular... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Dec 1 11:27:55 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E questions In-Reply-To: <10112010936.ZM2888@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200112011727.LAA19393@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Got any spares so I can check? ;-) I'm looking for a TD8-E and an RX8-E > in particular... > I just bought some, got any 8/E stuff to trade? -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From mcruse at acm.org Sat Dec 1 02:25:10 2001 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E questions References: Message-ID: <3C0893E6.4090906@acm.org> Tony Duell wrote: > >Not that I think a multi-coloured panel is a particularly good idea in >general. DEC did use groups of 3 red and 3 orange LEDs (splitting the >data/address into octal digits) on some machines and that seems to work >quite well. > >-tony > For one of my 8/e machines I did the led conversion since I didn't have any bulbs available. I didn't know where to get them either. Anyway, I used different colors for the EMA, MEMORY ADDRESS, AC/STATUS... and RUN indicators. I can always switch them back but it does look kind of cool in amber, red, green and blue. Mike From mcruse at acm.org Sat Dec 1 02:30:34 2001 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: PDP-8 case References: <009d01c17169$39ca5270$71ee9a8d@ajp166> <10111200819.ZM15851@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3C08952A.8050508@acm.org> Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Nov 19, 21:04, ajp166 wrote: > >>I don't remember that foam as being conductive. Most conductive foams >>tend to shred, those bits are not kind to the electronics. >> > >Agreed:-) The brown stuff isn't much nicer after 15-30 years. I suspect >someone before me had replaced foam that lost its resilience, and thought >conductive foam would be better in some way. > >>From: Pete Turnbull >> >>>I've been cleaning up my recently-acquired PDP-8/E, and I've had to >>> >remove > >>>the plastic foam from the inside of the lid, which was fairly horrible. >>>I'm not sure what best to replace it with >>> > >Thanmks to everyone who replied. I'll just use ordinary high-density foam. > It's much cheaper than a couple of square feet of good quality conductive >foam, which would be a bit thin anyway. > > Good choice. Conductive foam (the black stuff at least) will also loose it's integrity over time and crumble. Especially when subjected to repetitive mechanical stress. It is not designed to last. Mike From mhstein at usa.net Sat Dec 1 00:43:39 2001 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: HD Controllers - S-100 & Corvus Omninet Message-ID: <01C17A09.A06EE100@mse-d03> At the risk of raising the blood pressure of the purists on this list, I have a controller board out of a Corvus Omninet Drive (marked 8012-10970, 8010-?492-01 REV A. which I scrapped many years ago to use the cabinet and drive to back up my Cromemcos. Sorry to confess, I also pulled a few small parts off the board over the years, however, most of it is still complete and it could either be put back together if one had another one to compare, or perhaps someone could use the major chips on it (WD1010, Corvus 8115-03023 REV B, etc.) Also have a few old AT controllers with WD2010B's on them, not socketed though. Any interest? 2nd question: Does anybody know anything about the HD interface bus Cromemco used with their early IMI drives (7012 - 8" with transparent cover, 5007, 5018 & 5021 5 1/2") and the WDI/WDI-II controllers? I'm just curious if the same interface was used in any other systems (single 34 pin header, 7 units max, differential servo clock supplied by drive, so it doesn't look like SA1000). Interesting aside: when Cromemco finally went the ST506 route with the STDC controller, they made a replacement HD board available to convert the IMI 5 1/2" drives to a standard ST506 interface. Finally, I also have a Corvus S-100 board; looks like it might be a host adapter for a disk drive of some sort. Only markings are Corvus S-100, 8008 REV K, copyright 1980; 11 TTL chips & a 34 pin header. Anybody know what it is and/or want it? m From Richard.Sandwell at roebry.co.uk Sat Dec 1 03:03:03 2001 From: Richard.Sandwell at roebry.co.uk (Richard.Sandwell@roebry.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: Omninet and Ethernet Message-ID: I have a 4 workstation generic Apricot network using MS-NET over Omninet.....and I'd like to tie it to my ethernet network. How would you go about this? The physical side - I'm thinking about having an old IBM PS/2 model 50 as a link between the two environments - IIRC there was an MCA omninet card and I'm certain I've got an ethernet card somewhere. What would anyone suggest I do about the software side? MS-Net is netbios - net share \\xxxxx\yyy and so on, and I dimly recall there being an IBM PC Lan program bridge or something, but there my memory fails me..... Ideas? //Rich From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Dec 1 05:33:54 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: Sun Optical mouse pad anyone? In-Reply-To: <000001c17a1c$a1b32630$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <200112011133.fB1BXsD00610@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 30 Nov, Fred deBros wrote: > OK, so there are type 4 (UV plus vis light) IR not UV. > Type 4 mice require a different optical pad than type 5. I found that the type of pad does not matter. > There is a ps file that prints the type 4 mouse pad grid on paper. > Do I have to laminate that print, or print it on a transparency and glue > that onto an aluminum foil or print it onto a reflective foil? Paper works, but I found that a reflective background works better. I printed it on a A4 transparency, puted aluminum foil on the printed side, puted an other transparency on top of the foil and and fixated this with sticky tape at the edges. Worked well for years. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 1 06:39:24 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: Sun Optical mouse pad anyone? In-Reply-To: Re: Sun Optical mouse pad anyone? (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) References: <000001c17a1c$a1b32630$6501a8c0@fred> <200112011133.fB1BXsD00610@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <15368.53116.955248.2338@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 1, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > Type 4 mice require a different optical pad than type 5. > I found that the type of pad does not matter. Type 3 definitely requires a different pad from type 4...got frustrated by this many, many times while outfitting the early Digex offices with diskless Sun3/50, 3/60, & 3/140 machines as X terminals using Xkernel. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Dec 1 11:38:00 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: Sun Optical mouse pad anyone? In-Reply-To: <15368.53116.955248.2338@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <200112011738.fB1Hc1q00885@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 1 Dec, Dave McGuire wrote: > Type 3 definitely requires a different pad from type 4... Then you have other type 3 rodents than I. Mine are identical to the type 4 mice, only with an other connector. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 1 16:47:03 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: Sun Optical mouse pad anyone? In-Reply-To: Re: Sun Optical mouse pad anyone? (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) References: <15368.53116.955248.2338@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200112011738.fB1Hc1q00885@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <15369.24039.255250.646501@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 1, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > Type 3 definitely requires a different pad from type 4... > Then you have other type 3 rodents than I. Mine are identical to the > type 4 mice, only with an other connector. It's certainly possible that I'm thinking of the Type 2...this was a long time ago and I was running a couple of Sun2-120 boxes at the time. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Sat Dec 1 09:06:37 2001 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: Sun Optical mouse pad anyone? In-Reply-To: <000001c17a1c$a1b32630$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, Fred deBros wrote: > Type 4 mice are tricky because they have to be adjusted to the grid > (parallel vs perpendicular) in order to work correctly. > There is a ps file that prints the type 4 mouse pad grid on paper. > Do I have to laminate that print, or print it on a transparency and glue > that onto an aluminum foil or print it onto a reflective foil? > > Because my printed pad on plain paper don't work with type 4 mice. > > Sniff. I wonder why I find so many optical mice in the garbage here. > > Any advice? I was given a sparcstation SLC with an optical mouse, no pad tho. After somet hinking, I tried aluminium foil which I made dimples in, which sorta worked. Then I had a bright idea. I got a piece of hardboard (normally used for backing cheap cupboard units), which has a textured back due to the manufacturing process. I then got a piece of foil and taped it over a pad shaped sqaure of hardboard, then pressed it against some soft foam, so the patter was imprinted on the foil. This works passably as a stop-gap solution until you can get something better :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From walgen at e-Spirit.de Sat Dec 1 08:54:10 2001 From: walgen at e-Spirit.de (Walgenbach, Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: Atari 4160STE ?! Message-ID: <81BDC19FEA82D311A83900A024F2457F2A7B12@osiris.e-spirit.de> Hi, I just got an Atari 4160STE (case only) - does anyone know details about the history of this machine? Some sources say that it was a developer version of the Atari 1040STE ... http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=272 BTW: Is there a complete list of all Atari 16Bit computers that were sold? As far as I kown at least these models were sold - because I own them :) I own: Atari 260 ST Atari 520 ST Atari 520 STM (boxed) Atari 520+ ST Atari 520 STFM Atari 1040 STF Atari 1040 STFM Atari Mega ST-1 Atari Mega ST-2 Atari 520 STE Atari 1040 STE Atari MEGA STE Atari Falcon 030 Atari ATW 800 Atari ST Book I know but don't own: Atari Stacy Atari TT Atari Mega ST-4 Stefan. www.HomeComputer.de From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 1 17:09:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: Atari 4160STE ?! In-Reply-To: <81BDC19FEA82D311A83900A024F2457F2A7B12@osiris.e-spirit.de> Message-ID: <584.736T200T93617optimus@canit.se> Walgenbach, Stefan skrev: >I just got an Atari 4160STE (case only) - does anyone know >details about the history of this machine? Some sources say >that it was a developer version of the Atari 1040STE ... >http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=272 I believe some makers of memory upgrades made replacement model stickers to match the upgrade. The STE uses SIMMs, though, but it could have been made by some dealer in any case. >Atari 520+ ST What's that? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A liberal is someone too poor to be conservative, and too rich to be a communist. From vance at ikickass.org Sat Dec 1 10:08:42 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (One Without Reason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question In-Reply-To: <000c01c179cd$ea077b60$6b7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Nov 2001, Allison wrote: > Well for one the PDP-6 was a 36 bit machine that predated the PDP10. > The PDP-7 was an 18bitter, and unix was devoped on it because they had > one and not many other good reasons. So what? The fact that UNIX was developed on it is in itself a historic fact. Peace... Sridhar From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 1 11:09:14 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20011130185302.007e1e90@costanzo.net> Message-ID: Is this supposed to be which ones were most historically significant, or WHICH ONES YOU LIKE?? Imagine a world history that leaves out all mention of Hitler. From hansp at aconit.org Sat Dec 1 11:50:57 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question References: Message-ID: <3C091881.1080807@aconit.org> Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Is this supposed to be which ones were most historically significant, or > WHICH ONES YOU LIKE?? As the examiner, I say it is the former. Likes and disklikes don't enter into it. > Imagine a world history that leaves out all mention of Hitler. Nice point -- hbp From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 1 13:22:59 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question In-Reply-To: <3C091881.1080807@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Hans B Pufal wrote: > > Is this supposed to be which ones were most historically significant, or > > WHICH ONES YOU LIKE?? > As the examiner, I say it is the former. Likes and disklikes don't enter into it. > > Imagine a world history that leaves out all mention of Hitler. > > Nice point Leaving Hitler out of a world history would be like leaving IBM PC (5150) out of a list of significant computers. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 1 13:01:34 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: <009901c17a9a$b098a2f0$67ec9a8d@ajp166> From: One Without Reason > >> Well for one the PDP-6 was a 36 bit machine that predated the PDP10. >> The PDP-7 was an 18bitter, and unix was devoped on it because they had >> one and not many other good reasons. > >So what? The fact that UNIX was developed on it is in itself a historic >fact. The fact that unix was not developed on 36 bit. And the 18bit machines were somewhat different from the 36bitters. Oh, and while they were both DEC K&R happed to have access to the PDP-7. Allison From vance at ikickass.org Sat Dec 1 13:47:28 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (One Without Reason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question In-Reply-To: <009901c17a9a$b098a2f0$67ec9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >> Well for one the PDP-6 was a 36 bit machine that predated the PDP10. > >> The PDP-7 was an 18bitter, and unix was devoped on it because they had > >> one and not many other good reasons. > > > >So what? The fact that UNIX was developed on it is in itself a historic > >fact. > > The fact that unix was not developed on 36 bit. And the 18bit machines > were somewhat different from the 36bitters. Oh, and while they were both > DEC K&R happed to have access to the PDP-7. But "rare" and "interesting" doesn't necessarily mean "historic". Peace... Sridhar From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Dec 1 18:13:50 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: <14b.500b598.293acc3e@aol.com> 1) 1890 Hollerith Tabulation System. Mechanical machine to sort US census data. Hollerith's Tabulating Machine Company, TMC, was later to merge with Computing-Tabulating-Recording Co, later to become IBM (1914) 2) 1937-41 Z1 and Z3 built by Konrad Zuse and Helmut Schreyer Z1 first binary machine. Z3 first floating point machine (used 2600 relays). Speed was 5Hz ! 3) 1937 Automatic Sequence Controlled Calculator (ASCC) or Harvard Mk I Part vacuum tube - part relay. Hard wired coding. Code written by Grace Hopper. According to Ms Hopper - moths would fly in through the open windows at night and get stuck in the relays. This would render the machine unless and it would have to be "de-bugged". 4) 1940 ? Enigma - Electromechanical state machine. Colossus wouldn't have been built without it. 5) 1943 Colossus - Vacuum tube code craker. Not a general purpose machine, built solely to solve Enigma ciphers. Hard wired coding and paper tape. 1500 valves. 6) 1944 ENIAC - First general purpose machine. Hard wired and paper tape program, worked in decimal. Program storage added after development of Manchester Mk I and EDSAC. 7) 1946 Manchester Mark I - First stored program computer. The Williams tube (CRT) was used for program storage. Commercial version was the Ferranti Mk I Followed by EDSAC in 1949. 8) 1951 UNIVAC - first successful commercial computer. One of the first machines to use compiled software, another of Grace Hopper's ideas. 9) 1951 LEO I (Lyons Electronic Office) J. Lyons & Company Ltd First British mainframe. Lyons bought by English Electric Company later to become ICL and the end of the British computer industry. 10) 1956 MIT Lincoln Labs TX-0 - First solid state computer 11) 1964 CDC's 6600 - Seymour Cray's first super computer, 3 MIPS 12) 1965 DEC PDP8 - The first true minicomputer 13) 1968/9 The Apollo guidance computer - Helped get man to the moon. 14) 1971 Intel 4004 - First commercially available microprocessor 15) 1972 HP 35 - Perhaps the first scientific pocket calculator ? (On the list 'cos I like HP stuff) 16) 1974 Xerox Alto - The mouse makes it's first appearence as well as windows, menus and icons. Ground breaking stuff. 17) 1975 MITS Altair 8800. First popular personal computer . 8080 based, 256 bytes of memory, no keyboard or display. Paul Allen and Bill Gates wrote a BASIC interpreter for it and the Altairs bus structure evolved into the S-100 bus. 18) 1976/7 Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak produced the Apple I followed by Apple II. First popular 6502 personal computer. Atari and Commodore followed. 19) 1976 CRAY 1 - First real supercomputer ? 166 MIPS 20) 1978 DEC VAX11/780 - 4Gbyte virtual memory ! 21) 1981 The IBM PC - A veil of darkness falls Honourable mention Arcade games ought to get a mention, they created an entire industry. Atari for Asteroids, Midway for space invaders. Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011201/92cb1b33/attachment.html From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sat Dec 1 19:36:36 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question References: <14b.500b598.293acc3e@aol.com> Message-ID: <030d01c17ad1$c96be710$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 10:43 AM Subject: Re: History of Computing exam question > 4) 1940 ? > Enigma - Electromechanical state machine. Colossus wouldn't have > been built without it. Hmmm, possibly true, though not for the reason you state. The success against Enigma using 'cracking' machines led to the idea of building Colussus to crack the "Fish" machines. > 5) 1943 > Colossus - Vacuum tube code craker. Not a general purpose machine, > built solely to solve Enigma ciphers. Hard wired coding and paper tape. > 1500 valves. Actually it was built to crack the Geheimschrieber ("Secret Writer") ciphers, several versions of which existed, and were referred to by the Brits as the "Fish" machines. I think one specific machine was known to the Brits as "Tunny" and another as "Salmon". They were used by The German High Command to distribute orders from the Government (read Hitler) to the various arms and embassies and were a radically different type of ciphering process to the simpler Enigma system. IIRC it used an additive numerical encryption of some kind. The Enigma code was dealt with by the Bombes, an Alan Turing altered variant of the original Bombes used by the Poles to crack the early Enigmas in the late 1930's, prior to WW2. Like the Enigmas they were used against, the Bombes were electromechanical. Bletchley Park were well into much Enigma traffic, (except for the Reichsmarine, who were much more careful in their useage habits) long before 1943. > 13) 1968/9 > The Apollo guidance computer - Helped get man to the moon. Are we talking about the ones on the ground or the ones in the spacecraft? If the spacecraft, was the one in the LEM the same machine? Anyone got any info on it? Any examples survive? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 1 18:02:02 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question References: <14b.500b598.293acc3e@aol.com> <030d01c17ad1$c96be710$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <3C096F7A.35D965F0@jetnet.ab.ca> Geoff Roberts wrote: > > 13) 1968/9 > > The Apollo guidance computer - Helped get man to the moon. > > Are we talking about the ones on the ground or the ones in the spacecraft? > If the spacecraft, was the one in the LEM the same machine? Anyone got any > info on it? Any examples survive? The one in the command module. I suspect bits and pieces have survived as part of the apollo museum pieces. There is a good bit of information on the web about this machine because of the Apollo 1 electrical fire. The movie Apollo 13 has a nice mock up of it. What about the PDP-1 and vector display ... the first real video game! PS. As a reminder http://members.aol.com/swtpc6800/FDC2/FDC_Index.htm is a new floppy disc controller for the Southwest Technical Products Corp. 6800 and 6809 computers. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Dec 1 20:23:42 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: <25.1f29674c.293aeaae@aol.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Subject: Re: History of Computing exam question >> 4) 1940 ? >> Enigma - Electromechanical state machine. Colossus wouldn't have >> been built without it. > Hmmm, possibly true, though not for the reason you state. The success > against Enigma using 'cracking' machines led to the idea of building > Colussus to crack the "Fish" machines. I'd forgotten about the "fish" cyphers "Tunny" and "Salmon". Thanks for the reminder. Your're right about the Bombes. The Poles were way ahead of anyone else and didn't get very much recognition for their work. >> 13) 1968/9 >> The Apollo guidance computer - Helped get man to the moon. > Are we talking about the ones on the ground or the ones in the spacecraft? > If the spacecraft, was the one in the LEM the same machine? Anyone got any > info on it? Any examples survive? I meant the ones in the spacecraft. They were major landmarks in terms of reliability both in terms of hardware and software. They were all digital whereas most guidance computers from that era were analogue. As for info on these machines, I just did a search, and google threw up 1800 matches ! Try the NASA website http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/Part1.html I don't expect one will ever appear on ebay but there must be a few left in various museums. Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011201/b9ab8ba6/attachment.html From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 1 21:03:42 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: <002101c17ade$52876d60$67ec9a8d@ajp166> From: Geoff Roberts >were electromechanical. Bletchley Park were well into much Enigma traffic, >(except for the Reichsmarine, who were much more careful in their useage >habits) long before 1943. The enigma used by the Reichsmarine was different and had an additional code wheel as well. >> 13) 1968/9 >> The Apollo guidance computer - Helped get man to the moon. > >Are we talking about the ones on the ground or the ones in the spacecraft? >If the spacecraft, was the one in the LEM the same machine? Anyone got any >info on it? Any examples survive? The ground, CM and LM all had computers none the same. LM and CM copies still exist as part of the ground simulators and ground test vehicles. I'd love to see more detail on the CM or LM systems. Allison From vance at ikickass.org Sat Dec 1 10:28:07 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (One Without Reason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:31 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 150 Message-ID: Hi folks. I got a few questions. First, is there anything that makes this box different from a plain-vanilla VAXserver 3100? Second, does anyone have the software for this bad boy? Third, will the software run on a regular VAXserver 3100? Fourth, what does the software consist of? Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 1 10:52:17 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 150 In-Reply-To: DEC Infoserver 150 (One Without Reason) References: Message-ID: <15369.2753.255799.949924@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 1, One Without Reason wrote: > Hi folks. I got a few questions. First, is there anything that makes > this box different from a plain-vanilla VAXserver 3100? Second, does > anyone have the software for this bad boy? Third, will the software run > on a regular VAXserver 3100? Fourth, what does the software consist of? I've got the software, Sridhar...I will hook you up as soon as I get it unpacked. Dunno about the VS3100/IS150 comparison offhand, but I know they're very similar...might be the same board with different ROMs or something. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From dittman at dittman.net Sat Dec 1 11:36:23 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 150 In-Reply-To: from "One Without Reason" at Dec 01, 2001 11:28:07 AM Message-ID: <200112011736.fB1HaNL23949@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Hi folks. I got a few questions. First, is there anything that makes > this box different from a plain-vanilla VAXserver 3100? Second, does > anyone have the software for this bad boy? Third, will the software run > on a regular VAXserver 3100? Fourth, what does the software consist of? I can provide the software, but the InfoServer 150 is different from a VAXserver 3100. I've tried to swap the ROMs, but that didn't work. The InfoServer 100 is the same as a VAXserver 3100 (but I can't remember which model) with different ROMs. If you want to try, I can provide Infoserver 100 ROM images. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From oliv555 at arrl.net Sat Dec 1 10:57:13 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: FS: HiNote Message-ID: <3C090BE9.CEC4957B@arrl.net> Thought I'd offer up my ultraII before eBaying it. Just upgraded to a HiNote 233. Digital HiNote UltraII model LTS5150 Win98, 150mhz cpu 32mb ram 1.4gb hard drive floppy drive dock 6xCD mobilemedia dock i/o expansion dock ac adapter NOTE: battery does not hold charge $85, shipping included No docs or software other than the loaded os. The only flaw im aware of, about 1 of every 10 bootups it stops at the end. Always fixed with a reboot. Don't recall this happening when I was running w95. see at: http://www.hal-pc.org/~nicko/hinote.jpg -nick From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Sat Dec 1 14:14:18 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: FS: HiNote In-Reply-To: <3C090BE9.CEC4957B@arrl.net> Message-ID: On 01-Dec-2001 no wrote: > $85, shipping included What would shipping to southern Qu?bec be? > No docs or software other than the loaded os. The only flaw im aware > of, about 1 of every 10 bootups it stops at the end. Always fixed with > a reboot. Don't recall this happening when I was running w95. Did you install the v2.1 BIOS? > see at: > http://www.hal-pc.org/~nicko/hinote.jpg Wow. Getting info on this computer is non-easy. Google returned pages in japanese or memory upgrades. Finaly I found http://amun.compaq.com.au/customers/products/hinote/u2.htm Compaq's burying of this data must be a huge pain for you folks needing docs for all your DEC gear. -Philip From oliv555 at arrl.net Sat Dec 1 14:58:53 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: FS: HiNote References: Message-ID: <3C09448D.745E2B03@arrl.net> gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > On 01-Dec-2001 no wrote: > > $85, shipping included > What would shipping to southern Qu?bec be? > > > No docs or software other than the loaded os. The only flaw im aware > > of, about 1 of every 10 bootups it stops at the end. Always fixed with > > a reboot. Don't recall this happening when I was running w95. > > Did you install the v2.1 BIOS? > > > see at: > > http://www.hal-pc.org/~nicko/hinote.jpg > > Wow. Getting info on this computer is non-easy. Google returned pages in > japanese or memory upgrades. Finaly I found > http://amun.compaq.com.au/customers/products/hinote/u2.htm > > Compaq's burying of this data must be a huge pain for you folks needing > docs for all your DEC gear. > > -Philip There is also: http://www4.support.compaq.com/support_database/index/epid73.htm and i made it a point to download everything there. No telling how much longer Compaq will keep this info available. -nick From hansp at aconit.org Sat Dec 1 11:59:23 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives Message-ID: <3C091A7B.7090700@aconit.org> I am very happy to be able to announce that the PDP-9 that we have been working on for quite some time finally began talking to the world again today. We had gotten memory and processor operational, then had to fix a memory fault which developed. TTY I/O posed some problems but finally today it spoke and we could reply. We ran the only two test routines we have on paper tape: the extended memory test and the TTY test. There appears to be some issue with the TTY since part 1 test halts after a while with PC=22, no mention of that in the test writeup! TTY test part 2 runs without error. Anyways, we plan on completeing checkout on this system, fix a couple of burnt our indicator bulbs and get the punch up before starting on the second system we have. That one has a dual dectapes, then we can read the 100 or so tapes trhat came with the system, and run some real software ;-) I'd be interested in knowing the status of other pdp-9's. Regards -- hbp for ACONIT, Grenoble France From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 1 12:58:57 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives In-Reply-To: <3C091A7B.7090700@aconit.org> Message-ID: >second system we have. That one has a dual dectapes, then we can read >the 100 or so tapes trhat came with the system, and run some real >software ;-) Have you made images of the tapes yet? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From hansp at aconit.org Sat Dec 1 13:36:45 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives References: Message-ID: <3C09314D.5070102@aconit.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>second system we have. That one has a dual dectapes, then we can read >>the 100 or so tapes trhat came with the system, and run some real >>software ;-) >> > > Have you made images of the tapes yet? No, we have no means of reading them til we get up the second PDP9 -- hbp From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 1 13:40:23 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board (earlier non-ASIC version) chips In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Nov 30, 1 09:07:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 840 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011201/1403421b/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Dec 1 13:42:41 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board (earlier non-ASIC version) chips In-Reply-To: Don Maslin's message of "Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:07:50 -0800 (PST)" References: Message-ID: <200112011942.fB1Jgft55925@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Don Maslin wrote: > Okay, starting at top-left hand and reading horizontally, they are as > follow: > > HD74LS112P HD74LS11P HD74LS153P DM74LS163AN > SN74SO4N SN74LS393N SN74LS174 SN74LS163AN > SN74LS174N HD74LS86P HD74LS163P > SN7433N SN74LS174N HD74LS273P > HD74LS14P HD74LS367AP HD74LS194AP HD74LS374P > SN74LS133N HD74LS32P HD74LS194AP HD74LS374P Hmm, mine looks like this. * marks what I take to be significant differences. (U5) HD74LS112P (U11) HD74LS11P (U17) HD74LS153P (U23) HD74LS125AP * (U4) 74S404PC (U10) SN74LS393N (U16) SN74LS174N (U22) SN74LS163AN (U3) UM8326 * (U9) SN74LS174N (U15) HD74LS86P (U21) DM74LS163AN (U8) SN7433N (U14) SN74LS174N (U20) HD74LS273P (U2) HD74LS14P (U7) HD74LS367AP (U13) HD74LS194AP (U19) HD74LS374P (U1) SN74LS133N (U6) HD74LS32P (U12) HD74LS194AP (U18) HD74LS374P -Frank McConnell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 1 13:54:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board (earlier non-ASIC version) chips In-Reply-To: <200112011942.fB1Jgft55925@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Dec 1, 1 11:42:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011201/05a2c169/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 1 15:23:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: S/09 update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to Michael Holley and his sending me a new S-BUG ROM, my SWTPc S/09 is now booting Flex09 off of a 5-1/4" disk using his DC5 floppy controller. The old S-BUG ROM was part of the trio of ROMs provided for support of OS-9 and would not recognize either disk system, though both are supposedly based on the same version. I'm still working on the 8" disk system but thanks to a few other individuals, I have two sets of drives as well as Flex on 8" diskette. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Dec 1 18:01:17 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board (earlier non-ASIC version) chips In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:54:54 +0000 (GMT)" References: Message-ID: <200112020001.fB201HM63179@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > U23 is still a TTL type (a 3-state buffer, not a counter, now), so data > on it is trivial to find. Yes, it was the difference in number that suggested a difference in function and that is why I thought I should bring attention to it. Not being a hardware guy, I don't have that (number, function) map cached in my brain. > I don't recognise U3, though. I guess it was made by UMC. How many pins > does it have? Eight. mark_k (who started this thread) told me it is a data separator. -Frank McConnell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 1 18:40:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board (earlier non-ASIC version) chips In-Reply-To: <200112020001.fB201HM63179@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Dec 1, 1 04:01:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1480 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/074028bd/attachment.ksh From mbbrutman at magnaspeed.net Sat Dec 1 19:41:05 2001 From: mbbrutman at magnaspeed.net (Michael B. Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Need "PC Mouse" driver for PCjr .. Message-ID: <3C0986B1.4090905@magnaspeed.net> Chris (mythtech@mac.com) spake: >>The mouse looks to be a slightly >>modified version of the "PC Mouse". The neat thing is that it is an >>optical mouse. [:-)] >I had an optical mouse way back when with my Mac Plus... I bought it as >a replacement for a broken mouse. I think it was made by A+ >At the time, I hated it, you needed a special mouse pad for it to work, >and it wasn't as accurate as the Mac Plus mouse, which made it even >harder to draw. >Just one of those things that I found interesting now that optical mice >are all the rage. Actually, I don't like the old style optical mice at all. I like this one because I think the older optical mice are hard to find. And on top of it, this was manufactured for use on the Jr - it wasn't just a run-of-the-mill PC mouse, it had two funny connectors specific to the Jr. (One for serial, and one to take power off the lightpen port.) All of that makes it special. My original machine had an MS bus mouse with a roller. Quite a different animal to use. The new optical mice are only vaguely related to the old ones. They don't need the pad or anything. I haven't used one, so I don't know if they are any more usable. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Dec 1 20:06:14 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' Message-ID: <001401c17ad5$f227c580$b2469280@y5f3q8> Anyone know what this is? It came from a 256K IBM XT, I thought at first it was a video card, (it was in the first slot), but it's got eight banks of nine 41256 ram DIPs on it. That sounds like a lot for a mono video card, doesn't it? Combo card? it's got a looong double-row of pin sockets along the bottom just above the ISA connector, and another single row up the whole edge between the external connectors (male 9 pin & female 25 pin) and the components. Maybe a daughter board? It's got one 6-position DIP switch at the top right (^vvvv^) and 3 three-pin jumpers along the top near the rams, (xx. xx. xx.) It's got a couple've big (1/8") holes on the board, lending credence to the daughterboard theory. All the chips are labeled in an intersting way-- u84 158 is --get this-- a 74LS158N. Don't ya wish everything was made like this? The computer it came out of looks pretty interesting, aside for a decade's worth of grime on it. A whopping 256K ram on the motherboard, 2x internal floppy, Adaptec HDD controller, external (!) ummm... 20? Meg drive in a case that _looks_ like an IBM part, but it doesn't actually _say_ IBM anywhere on it. Connects via IDC connectors on ribbon cable. Strange. Have to pop the case to plug it in. I hate to think just how much this setup must've cost new. ja ne Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 1 20:25:40 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <001401c17ad5$f227c580$b2469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know what this is? It came from a 256K IBM XT, I thought at first it Just like the name implies. It is a RAM card. Yes, there are numerous daughter cards, and related models with permanently installed options, including floppy controller, laser printer controller, scanner (IX-12) controller, etc. From CLeyson at aol.com Sat Dec 1 22:15:43 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer (was History of Computing exam question) Message-ID: <178.ad697.293b04ef@aol.com> Found a java applet that simulates the DSKY (display and keyboard) http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/1556/dsky.html As MIT designed the AGC's I bet they have all of the documentation filed away somewhere. Found some interesting documents at http://hrst.mit.edu/hrs/apollo/public/ 1689.pdf - "Block II keyboard and dsiplay program (RETRED44)" Gives a Block II verb/noun list 1692.pdf - "AGC4 Memo #9 Block II Instructions" Block II Memory map and instruction set Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011201/790c7837/attachment.html From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Dec 1 23:00:53 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: IBM 3290 Plasma Display? Message-ID: <20011201230053.H20959@mrbill.net> Anybody know if these are usable in any way on a non-EBCDIC system, or where I could find specs? I see a couple really cheap on eBay, and would make a nice display for a serial console or something, if I could get them hooked in up the right manner. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Dec 1 23:46:34 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <001401c17ad5$f227c580$b2469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Anyone know what this is? It came from a 256K IBM XT, I thought at > first it was a video card, (it was in the first slot), but it's got > eight banks of nine 41256 ram DIPs on it. That sounds like a lot for > a mono video card, doesn't it? Combo card? it's got a looong > double-row of pin sockets along the bottom just above the ISA > connector, and another single row up the whole edge between the > external connectors (male 9 pin & female 25 pin) and the components. > Maybe a daughter board? It's got one 6-position DIP switch at the top > right (^vvvv^) and 3 three-pin jumpers along the top near the rams, > (xx. xx. xx.) It's got a couple've big (1/8") holes on the board, > lending credence to the daughterboard theory. All the chips are > labeled in an intersting way-- u84 158 is --get this-- a 74LS158N. > Don't ya wish everything was made like this? This sounds like a memory expansion+i/o card, with functions similar to the well known AST Six Pak Plus board. Does this card also have a 26 pin header somewhere for the second serial port? Does it have a battery for a real time clock? Make sure you write down the board's current dip switch settings if you decide to try changing anything... -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 1 18:48:00 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Traf-o-data References: <3C09B27E.8030705@chisp.net> Message-ID: <3C097A40.C6992B2E@jetnet.ab.ca> Michael Maginnis wrote: > More info on Traf-O-Data: > I guess it should be Micr-O-Soft, as well... Now I know why Micr-O-Soft is buggy, both programs ignore the possible effects of a crash! in the system. :) -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From hansp at aconit.org Sun Dec 2 00:20:52 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer (was History of Computing exam question) References: <178.ad697.293b04ef@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C09C844.10905@aconit.org> CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > Found a java applet that simulates the DSKY (display and keyboard) > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/1556/dsky.html > > As MIT designed the AGC's I bet they have all of the documentation > filed away somewhere. Found some interesting documents at > http://hrst.mit.edu/hrs/apollo/public/ > > 1689.pdf - "Block II keyboard and dsiplay program (RETRED44)" > Gives a Block II verb/noun list > > 1692.pdf - "AGC4 Memo #9 Block II Instructions" > Block II Memory map and instruction set Sourceforge as a semiactive project to write a simulator don't know if the code cited above is pert of that or a different project. Ther eis also a book about the computers used int he Apollo era. From a previous (26 Sep 2001) post in cccmp by John Allan: > re Eldon Hall's book "Journey to the Moon" > BTW It is expensive but worth > it, even if you like Only computers or only spaceflight. (but both? > ) > Publisher: American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics > Date: 1996 > ISBN: 1-56347-185-X > URLS: > http://www.aiaa.org/store/storeproductdetail.cfm?ID=358 available from Amazon but url is too long to post ;-) -- hbp From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sun Dec 2 02:47:11 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Dec 2001 12:06:36 +1030." <030d01c17ad1$c96be710$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <200112020847.IAA25650@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au said: > Actually it was built to crack the Geheimschrieber ("Secret Writer") > ciphers, several versions of which > existed, and were referred to by the Brits as the "Fish" machines. I think > one specific machine was known to the Brits as "Tunny" and another as > "Salmon". "Tunny" were built by Siemens and "Sturgeon" (not Salmon..) were built by Lorenz. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 06:29:23 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <003901c17b2c$fa3c0720$ae469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 09:25 PM Subject: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > Anyone know what this is? It came from a 256K IBM XT, I thought at first it > > Just like the name implies. > > It is a RAM card. That would make the card in slot three the video card. I thought the third card was a combo IO card. It has a hayes 1200b modem in slot two. > > > Yes, there are numerous daughter cards, and related models with > permanently installed options, including floppy controller, laser > printer controller, scanner (IX-12) controller, etc. Any idea where I can get docs ? I'd imangine it'll need a driver to use the extra ram. Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 06:32:47 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <003c01c17b2d$73fba160$ae469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 12:46 AM Subject: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > Anyone know what this is? It came from a 256K IBM XT, I thought at > > This sounds like a memory expansion+i/o card, with functions similar to > the well known AST Six Pak Plus board. Does this card also have a 26 pin > header somewhere for the second serial port? Does it have a battery for a > real time clock? Make sure you write down the board's current dip switch > settings if you decide to try changing anything... No headers other than the long ones for a daughter card. With a daughter card installed, it looks like it'll obstruct the next slot, so any extra ports might attach there. No battery or Dallas RTCs either. And don't worry-- I'm not changing any setting until _after_ I know what they do! > > -Toth Bob From walgen at e-Spirit.de Sun Dec 2 07:01:43 2001 From: walgen at e-Spirit.de (Walgenbach, Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: AW: Atari 4160STE ?! Message-ID: <81BDC19FEA82D311A83900A024F2457F2A7B1A@osiris.e-spirit.de> >>I just got an Atari 4160STE (case only) - does anyone know >>details about the history of this machine? Some sources say >>that it was a developer version of the Atari 1040STE ... >>http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=272 > >I believe some makers of memory upgrades made replacement model stickers > to match the upgrade. The STE uses SIMMs, though, but it could have been > made by some dealer in any case. That might be true - the lower case has a 1040STE label - first I thought it would not be the matching part but it defintely is. >>Atari 520+ ST > > What's that? an early version of the Atari 520ST factory upgraded to 1MB. It has a second 512kB RAM-Chip solderd on top of the regular RAM - very strange. That was my first Atari ST - it has an original Atari ST label with a small blue "+" ... Stefan From walgen at e-Spirit.de Sun Dec 2 07:54:05 2001 From: walgen at e-Spirit.de (Walgenbach, Stefan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: AW: Atari 4160STE ?! Message-ID: <81BDC19FEA82D311A83900A024F2457F2A7B1D@osiris.e-spirit.de> Hi Curt, > While I don't have every single ST component listed, the ST section under > Atari Computers on my website should be of help to you: > www.atarimuseum.com Of course I checked your web-site first for infos about the 4160STe :) Perhaps some day you have the time to make a complete list of all Atari Computer Systems - I think there are quite a few unkown systems like the Atari ST520+, CLab Falcon MK I, II and X - there also was an Atari 520 STE - very strange ... > The 4160STe was going to be a 4mb Europe release of the ST but was > cut from production at the last minute, a few samples are floating > about, perhaps my machine is one of those. It has a 4160 label - although I am not completly sure if it is an original factory installed label or if it has been added later due to a memory upgrade. On the bottom site the label reads "1040STE" and has a large black sticker "4MB". The Serial Number is X2 040551 - never seen anything like "X2" on an Atari ST machine usualy the serial numbers start with "A1" ... if anyone is interested I have put some pictures on: http://www.homecomputer.de/tmp/4160_top.jpg http://www.homecomputer.de/tmp/4160_bottom.jpg Stefan. www.HomeComputer.de From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 2 11:17:28 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives In-Reply-To: Hans B Pufal "PDP-9 lives" (Dec 1, 18:59) References: <3C091A7B.7090700@aconit.org> Message-ID: <10112021717.ZM4360@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 1, 18:59, Hans B Pufal wrote: > I am very happy to be able to announce that the PDP-9 that we have been > working on for quite some time finally began talking to the world again > today. Congratulations! That will be a very satisfying feeling after a lot of work. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ehenson at erols.com Sun Dec 2 11:22:35 2001 From: ehenson at erols.com (Emilia Henson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: jumper pin settings for ALR (non-LVD) backplane Message-ID: <001901c17b55$f06d0e00$838faccf@emilia> I acquired an ALR raid cage with a non-LVD backplane for which I cannot find the jumper pin settings. I have been able to identify it as a "quick hot swap cage 3 drive board" with the following markings: 12609700 Rev. G1/A. There is also a sticker that reads: ALR s.a. # 9705/A and KIT# 3134/KS. Any direction would be appreciated. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/24e845f8/attachment.html From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 2 11:26:30 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: FLUKE? Message-ID: <003301c17b56$82529a60$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I was at the other yard of the scrapper yesterday. He just had in a bunch of IBM 3174's and a few large Hitachi data storage units. Beside this was another large unit labelled FLUKE. It's too late for it but I did get the 8" floppy disks for it. It was raining so they got a bit wet. They are drying now. Does anyone know anything about FLUKE machines? Collector of Vintage Computers (www.ncf.ca/~ba600) From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Dec 2 11:43:33 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <003901c17b2c$fa3c0720$ae469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > That would make the card in slot three the video card. I thought the third > card was a combo IO card. It has a hayes 1200b modem in slot two. Slots don't matter much on the IBM PC/XT except for slot 8, which was reserved for something (I can't remember exactly what right now.) Clone PC/XT boards usually did not restrict slot 8. There could be more than one I/O card in these old machines, since you could disable certain functions on the cards, and use more then one in the same machine. Since there is a modem in that machine, I would expect that there is only one enabled serial port on any I/O cards. > Any idea where I can get docs ? I'd imangine it'll need a driver to > use the extra ram. Good luck on the docs, sometimes they can be had by talking to the board's original manufacturer. Due to all the clones and cheap I/O cards that appeared around that time, finding the company may not even be possible now. If you know someone with an older MicroHouse cdrom, it might contain docs that could help you. Sometimes even docs for a similar card can be used, since there were many many clones and copies of boards. You won't need a driver for most PC/XT ram cards, since they just expand the base memory. If the I/O card has a real time clock, then you would need a special program to read the clock at boot time. -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 13:13:46 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > > Any idea where I can get docs ? I'd imangine it'll need a driver to > > use the extra ram. > You won't need a driver for most PC/XT ram cards, since they just expand > the base memory. If the I/O card has a real time clock, then you would > need a special program to read the clock at boot time. For THIS one, you WILL need a "driver". This is NOT "normal" memory, it is a predecessor to LIM EMS paged real mode expanded memory (up to 16? M of RAM in a processor mode that can't comprehend more than 1M at a time!) There is no RTC, except on daughter cards. If you are NOT in a hurry, I can help. If you ARE in a hurry, then I'll sell you the whole pile (2 totes), and you can try to sort it out. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Dec 2 11:46:15 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <003c01c17b2d$73fba160$ae469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > From: "Tothwolf" > > On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > > > Anyone know what this is? It came from a 256K IBM XT, I thought at > > > > > This sounds like a memory expansion+i/o card, with functions similar to > > the well known AST Six Pak Plus board. Does this card also have a 26 pin > > header somewhere for the second serial port? Does it have a battery for a > > real time clock? Make sure you write down the board's current dip switch > > settings if you decide to try changing anything... > > No headers other than the long ones for a daughter card. With a daughter > card installed, it looks like it'll obstruct the next slot, so any extra > ports might attach there. No battery or Dallas RTCs either. And don't > worry-- I'm not changing any setting until _after_ I know what they do! I've never seen an I/O card that used an daughter board for the second serial port, but I imagine there were companies who tried such a design. -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 13:15:19 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:32 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I've never seen an I/O card that used an daughter board for the second > serial port, but I imagine there were companies who tried such a design. I have. (Maynard?) But this isn't. The DE9 on the card is NOT a serial port! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Dec 2 12:02:02 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD372259FD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Anyone know what this is? It came from a 256K IBM XT, I thought at first it > was a video card, (it was in the first slot), but it's got eight banks of > nine 41256 ram DIPs on it. That sounds like a lot for a mono video card, > doesn't it? Combo card? it's got a looong double-row of pin sockets along > the bottom just above the ISA connector, and another single row up the whole > edge between the external connectors (male 9 pin & female 25 pin) and the > components. Maybe a daughter board? It's got one 6-position DIP switch at > the top right (^vvvv^) and 3 three-pin jumpers along the top near the rams, > (xx. xx. xx.) It's got a couple've big (1/8") holes on the board, lending > credence to the daughterboard theory. All the chips are labeled in an > intersting way-- u84 158 is --get this-- a 74LS158N. Don't ya wish > everything was made like this? Expanded memory (Al la AboveBoard, etc) plus serial port. Daughter board added realtime batter-backed clock IIRC. Used one in the Zenith Z150 I have now (but didn't get the JRAM-3 with the Zenith). -dq From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 13:18:44 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD372259FD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Expanded memory (Al la AboveBoard, etc) plus serial port. Daughter > board added realtime batter-backed clock IIRC. Many different daughter cards. Like the Maynard's, it was basically a system bus of their own. > Used one in the Zenith > Z150 I have now (but didn't get the JRAM-3 with the Zenith). Want? If and when I can dig them out, I think that I have more than enough to satisfy everybody who is crazy enough to want 'em. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 14:10:39 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <006001c17b6d$6a213f20$7a469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 02:18 PM Subject: RE: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Expanded memory (Al la AboveBoard, etc) plus serial port. Daughter > > board added realtime batter-backed clock IIRC. > > Many different daughter cards. Like the Maynard's, it was basically a > system bus of their own. Looks to me like straight ISA on a header. Shouldn't be too hard to convert a 1/3 length card to plug right in, if it has vias all along the bottom. Trim the card-edge, solder on two rows of pins, and slap it in! I can't think of anything I want bad enought to do all that work for, tho. > > > Used one in the Zenith > > Z150 I have now (but didn't get the JRAM-3 with the Zenith). > Want? > > If and when I can dig them out, I think that I have more than enough to > satisfy everybody who is crazy enough to want 'em. > Bob From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 2 12:34:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <001401c17ad5$f227c580$b2469280@y5f3q8> from "Robert Schaefer" at Dec 1, 1 09:06:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1981 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/6a26b2c0/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 13:27:21 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > 8 rows of 9 41256s sounds like 2Mbytes of parity-checked RAM. That's too > much for an 8088 to address directly. So this is probably some kind of > paged memory board, quite likely to be so called 'expanded memory'. RIGHT!! > > doesn't it? Combo card? it's got a looong double-row of pin sockets along > > the bottom just above the ISA connector, and another single row up the whole > > edge between the external connectors (male 9 pin & female 25 pin) and the > > components. Maybe a daughter board? It's got one 6-position DIP switch at > Myabe a daughterboard for more I/O. THAT daughterboard I haven't seen. > The 9 pin D plug sounds like a serial port. Is there a UART chip (40 pin, > 8250, 16450, 16550) on the board anywhere? What about 1488 and 1489 chips > (RS232 buffers). No UART. No 1488. No 1489. > If those chips are not on the board, then maybe the external connectors > just link to the row of sockets on the PCB near them, and you need the > daughterboard for any I/O functions. RIGHT!! Since you use CX laser controllers, perhaps you would like one/many ISA ones??? daughter card for JRAM?, on board along with the RAM on JLASER. The JLASER interface was supported by Xerox Ventura, Z-SOFT (PCPaint, etc), and a lot of others. There were also emulators for Postscript and for HP PCL that ran with the JLASER. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 13:45:15 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <004a01c17b69$de0a8b20$7a469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 01:34 PM Subject: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > > > > Anyone know what this is? It came from a 256K IBM XT, I thought at first it > > was a video card, (it was in the first slot), but it's got eight banks of > > All the slots on a PC/XT are identical, apart from slot 8 (which has the > well-known 'pull B8 low on reads from this card' problem). There is no > reason to assume that the card is slot 1 is video. Nor is there any > reason to assume that a video card in a PC/XT is MDA (or CGA for that > matter). It could be almost anything. Well, I made a few mistakes. I think it's a PC, not a PC/XT. Five 8 bit slots, a DIN tape port on the back, fully populated with 4 banks of 9 4564. It is a MCA video card, the `black and white/parallel' was a dead giveaway. > > > nine 41256 ram DIPs on it. That sounds like a lot for a mono video card, > > 8 rows of 9 41256s sounds like 2Mbytes of parity-checked RAM. That's too > much for an 8088 to address directly. So this is probably some kind of > paged memory board, quite likely to be so called 'expanded memory'. That's a lot bigger than I expected! The board has only 74 series logic on it, apart from the ram, so I guess all support for the ports on it are contained on the daughtercard. A closer look indicates that all the readily visible traces coming from the ports end up on the single-row header. > > > If those chips are not on the board, then maybe the external connectors > just link to the row of sockets on the PCB near them, and you need the > daughterboard for any I/O functions. Yup, that's my current guess too. the chip I broke is marked `D8284A' & `8404HKP" & with the AMD symbol. Any chance that is something non-essential that won't keep the board from booting? > > -tony Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 14:31:23 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <004a01c17b69$de0a8b20$7a469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Well, I made a few mistakes. I think it's a PC, not a PC/XT. Five 8 bit > slots, a DIN tape port on the back, fully populated with 4 banks of 9 4564. > It is a MCA video card, the `black and white/parallel' was a dead giveaway. ^^^ CAREFUL! That would be an MDA (Monochrome Display Adapter), or more accurately MDP (Monochrome Display & Printer). MCA is MicroChannel Architecture (as used in PS/2), which it most definitely is NOT. picky, picky, ... > That's a lot bigger than I expected! The board has only 74 series logic on > it, apart from the ram, so I guess all support for the ports on it are > contained on the daughtercard. A closer look indicates that all the readily > visible traces coming from the ports end up on the single-row header. RIGHT > > If those chips are not on the board, then maybe the external connectors > > just link to the row of sockets on the PCB near them, and you need the > > daughterboard for any I/O functions. > Yup, that's my current guess too. RIGHT From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 12:42:38 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > This sounds like a memory expansion+i/o card, with functions similar to > the well known AST Six Pak Plus board. Does this card also have a 26 pin > header somewhere for the second serial port? Does it have a battery for a > real time clock? Make sure you write down the board's current dip switch > settings if you decide to try changing anything... It is NOT a multifunction card. It is a memory card. The DB25 is NOT parallel, it is not serial. On the Jlaser/Jlaser-Plus that use the same basic board design, the DB25 is CX laser controller (NOT Centronicsw parallel!), and the DE9 is for Canon IX-12 scanner (NOT video, serial, etc.) The card is ALL memory, with just a few "glue" chips. There is no multi-function stuff on it. The "daughter" cards, on the other hand, have all sorts of weird stuff. Want to buy a few? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 13:19:31 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <003101c17b66$45d74120$7a469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 01:42 PM Subject: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > It is NOT a multifunction card. > It is a memory card. > > The DB25 is NOT parallel, it is not serial. > On the Jlaser/Jlaser-Plus that use the same basic board design, the DB25 > is CX laser controller (NOT Centronicsw parallel!), and the DE9 is for > Canon IX-12 scanner (NOT video, serial, etc.) Cool! Any chance you have some docs on it? I haven't plugged anything in to it yet, altho I did power up the system a few times. Once made it as far as `PARITY 1 ERROR', most times it just sat there with the cursor blinking. I've been reseating all the chips. Got a little too smart tho-- I pulled one out to jam it back in, it came out crooked and broke two pins off. :( If I can't find a spare off another board, I'll see about soldering the pins back on. BTW, the MB has a V20. Is that stock on an IBM-branded XT? > > The card is ALL memory, with just a few "glue" chips. There is no > multi-function stuff on it. > > The "daughter" cards, on the other hand, have all sorts of weird stuff. What kind of weird stuff? Interesting-weird or strange-and-useles-weird? > > > Want to buy a few? daughterboards or cards? > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 13:50:14 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <003101c17b66$45d74120$7a469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Cool! Any chance you have some docs on it? Yes, but not today. > to it yet, altho I did power up the system a few times. Once made it as far > as `PARITY 1 ERROR', most times it just sat there with the cursor blinking. It is absolutely NOT needeed for bringing up the computer, so pull it out, and keep it out until the computer boots and runs properly. PARITY 1 ERROR is ususally memory problems on the motherboard. > I've been reseating all the chips. Got a little too smart tho-- I pulled > one out to jam it back in, it came out crooked and broke two pins off. > :( If I can't find a spare off another board, I'll see about soldering the > pins back on. It's very ordinary 64K(bit) DRAM. Shouldn't be a problem finding, and you could always disable that row of 9, and use the rest. If that was on the motherboard, it COULD be a 256K (simple mod on XT to run 2 rows of 256 and 2 of 64 for 640K total). On an EARLY 5150 PC, it could be a 16K. > BTW, the MB has a V20. Is that stock on an IBM-branded XT? No. But it was a common add-in. The V20 was a plugin compatible replacement for the 8088. It added an 8080 (not Z80) mode that was handy if you're heavily CP/M oriented, and provided an average throughput improvement of about 7% over the 8088. Since the performance improvement was a function of what instruction mix you use, it varied from -30%? to +200%, and was often sold to suckers as a 200% speedup. It also used less power, and was handy in systems running off of batteries. (NOTE: to use a V20 in a Gavilan required some board mods!) > > The card is ALL memory, with just a few "glue" chips. There is no > > multi-function stuff on it. > > The "daughter" cards, on the other hand, have all sorts of weird stuff. > What kind of weird stuff? Interesting-weird or strange-and-useles-weird? Yes > > Want to buy a few? > daughterboards or cards? Yes I'll try tomorrow to see if the more accessible tote of them has docs/software for the JRAM-3, and let you know. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 13:07:09 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <003901c17b2c$fa3c0720$ae469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > It is a RAM card. > That would make the card in slot three the video card. I thought the third > card was a combo IO card. It has a hayes 1200b modem in slot two. While it certainly might be, I don't see how THIS makes it one. > > Yes, there are numerous daughter cards, and related models with > > permanently installed options, including floppy controller, laser > > printer controller, scanner (IX-12) controller, etc. The only daughter card that I DON'T remember being available would be one for MORE memory. > Any idea where I can get docs ? I'd imangine it'll need a driver to use the > extra ram. Docs? , Drivers? I'll be glad to, but it may be a while. I have two totes full of them!, but they are on the bottom, back side of the few hundred totes containing the residue of my office. I know where ONE of the totes of them is, and can probably get to that one soon. The other tote will happen when I get to it. I did something real stupid when I moved out of my office. I tried to organize the stuff that I was packing. For example, I put all of my staplers (regular ones, binding ones, heavy duty ones, deep throat ones, ...) into one box. Now I can't find 'em, and have NO stapler. OB_historical_pedantics: John Henderson? (Tall Tree Systems) approached me (and others) at the West Coast Computer Faire, with a question of "have you written any programs that use lots of memory?" We thought that he was trying to recruit people with experience in memory management, etc. for a project. He wasn't. He was coming out with MASSIVE memory boards, some with MORE THAN A MEGABYTE! of memory for the PC. He wasn't looking for project workers, he was looking for existing stuff that could comprise a market and use for his product. (That's what you have) Eventually, he found the application for it. He marketed a laser printer controller, that bypassed the 256K, text only, controller of the HP LaserJet, etc, and created complete bitmap images in RAM (on his board) in the PC, and dumped them straight into the printer engine. (That was the JLASER board, with 2M of expanded RAM and laser printer controller) Later on, Lotus, Intel, and Microsoft met (and explicitly did NOT invite Tall Tree, the primary provider of such boards!) and worked out the "Lotus-Intel-Microsoft Expanded Memory Specification" ("LIM EMS"). It took Tall Tree less than a month to make revisions to be compatible with their "standard". He also produced the very popular JFORMAT, which was a simple device driver for squeezing 400K on a disk (10 512 byte sectors per track), as well as doing 720K and 800k on 96TPI low density (Tandon TM100-4, etc.) I have JLASER, JLASER-PLUS (with scanner interface), JRAM, JRAM2, JRAM3, JDISK, ..., ..., It's not very organized, and I know where one tote of them is, but not yet where the other one is. Who wants some? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 14:05:43 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <005d01c17b6c$d7dc2da0$7a469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 02:07 PM Subject: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > > It is a RAM card. > > That would make the card in slot three the video card. I thought the third > > card was a combo IO card. It has a hayes 1200b modem in slot two. > > While it certainly might be, I don't see how THIS makes it one. > > > > > Yes, there are numerous daughter cards, and related models with > > > permanently installed options, including floppy controller, laser > > > printer controller, scanner (IX-12) controller, etc. > The only daughter card that I DON'T remember being available would be one > for MORE memory. > > > Any idea where I can get docs ? I'd imangine it'll need a driver to use the > > extra ram. > > Docs? , Drivers? > I'll be glad to, but it may be a while. > I have two totes full of them!, but they are on the bottom, back side of > the few hundred totes containing the residue of my office. > I know where ONE of the totes of them is, and can probably get to that one > soon. The other tote will happen when I get to it. I'm in no rush, in fact no true need other than curiousity. I'm getting curious about what's on the ST225 in the external case-- it came from the same pile, judging by the dirt on it. > > > I did something real stupid when I moved out of my office. I tried to > organize the stuff that I was packing. For example, I put all of my > staplers (regular ones, binding ones, heavy duty ones, deep throat ones, > ...) into one box. Now I can't find 'em, and have NO stapler. ^_^ > > > OB_historical_pedantics: John Henderson? (Tall Tree Systems) approached > me (and others) at the West Coast Computer Faire, with a question of "have > you written any programs that use lots of memory?" We thought that he was > trying to recruit people with experience in memory management, etc. for a > project. He wasn't. He was coming out with MASSIVE memory boards, some > with MORE THAN A MEGABYTE! of memory for the PC. He wasn't looking for > project workers, he was looking for existing stuff that could comprise a > market and use for his product. > (That's what you have) Interesting. I guess this a real bit of history I have here. > > Eventually, he found the application for it. He marketed a laser printer > controller, that bypassed the 256K, text only, controller of the HP > LaserJet, etc, and created complete bitmap images in RAM (on his board) in > the PC, and dumped them straight into the printer engine. > (That was the JLASER board, with 2M of expanded RAM and laser printer > controller) > > Later on, Lotus, Intel, and Microsoft met (and explicitly did NOT invite > Tall Tree, the primary provider of such boards!) and worked out the > "Lotus-Intel-Microsoft Expanded Memory Specification" ("LIM EMS"). It > took Tall Tree less than a month to make revisions to be compatible with > their "standard". > > He also produced the very popular JFORMAT, which was a simple device > driver for squeezing 400K on a disk (10 512 byte sectors per track), as > well as doing 720K and 800k on 96TPI low density (Tandon TM100-4, etc.) > > > I have JLASER, JLASER-PLUS (with scanner interface), JRAM, JRAM2, JRAM3, > JDISK, ..., ..., It's not very organized, and I know where one tote of > them is, but not yet where the other one is. Who wants some? What's the difference 'tween the various JRAM boards? Max installable ram? > > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > Bob From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 14:27:46 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <005d01c17b6c$d7dc2da0$7a469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > I'm in no rush, in fact no true need other than curiousity. I'm getting > curious about what's on the ST225 in the external case-- it came from the > same pile, judging by the dirt on it. Be aware that XT hard disk controllers are NOT mutually interchangeable! If it was formatted on an XT compatible hard disk controller, then you will need THAT model of controller to read it! (Or a LOT of sector and below level programming!) On the ATs, they standardized the controllers (almost), and you can read a drive formatted with a different brand of controller. > Interesting. I guess this a real bit of history I have here. > What's the difference 'tween the various JRAM boards? Max installable ram? Mostly just subsequent "improvements". 8 bit and 16 bit interface with/without LIM EMS support? From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Dec 2 13:56:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A06@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Expanded memory (Al la AboveBoard, etc) plus serial port. Daughter > > board added realtime batter-backed clock IIRC. > > Many different daughter cards. Like the Maynard's, it was basically a > system bus of their own. > > > Used one in the Zenith > > Z150 I have now (but didn't get the JRAM-3 with the Zenith). > Want? Hmmm... > If and when I can dig them out, I think that I have more than enough to > satisfy everybody who is crazy enough to want 'em. Might be useful on another XT-class machine... while the Zenith still belonged to employer, I bought a kit which modified the Zenith memory board using a new PAL to provide 768K, or 750K plus some UMBs... ISTR is was incompatible with continued use of the JRAM-3, tho... Docs/drivers? versions with the clock board? -dq From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 14:22:24 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A06@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Might be useful on another XT-class machine... while the > Zenith still belonged to employer, I bought a kit which > modified the Zenith memory board using a new PAL to provide > 768K, or 750K plus some UMBs... ISTR is was incompatible > with continued use of the JRAM-3, tho... Couldn't you jumper/configure the JRAM for a different "window" location? > Docs/drivers? versions with the clock board? >From memory: I know that I have some JRAMs of several different models, and LOTS of JLASER (JRAM with laser printer controller), some complete with docs, some just boards, etc. Some daughterboards, including floppy controller, but I don't know if I still have any of the clock daughterboards. I also have some Maynard floppy controllers, and some of their daughterboards, but I don't remember which. I think that I may have a Maynard clock daugherboard (without software) I had planned to take all of the TallTree (JRAM/JLASER) and Maynard stuff to VCF, but, ... -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 NOTE: My ISP is having difficulties. If you have problems reaching me at this e-mail address, you can leave a message at: cisin@info.sims.berkeley.edu fcisin@merritt.edu From vance at ikickass.org Sun Dec 2 12:04:25 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (One Without Reason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: NeXT stuff Message-ID: Ok. I had borrowed a soundbox and cables for my NeXT, but the person from whom I had borrowed them wants them back. Does anyone have an extra non-ADB soundbox and cables for a NeXT color slab available? My monitor has 3BNC connection. Also, (I know I am doing a bit of wishful thinking here), does anyone have a Pyro accelerator board for a slab, they wouldn't mind selling? Peace... Sridhar From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Dec 2 12:04:59 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: FLUKE? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD372259FE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I was at the other yard of the scrapper yesterday. He just had in a > bunch of IBM 3174's and a few large Hitachi data storage units. > Beside this was another large unit labelled FLUKE. It's too late for > it but I did get the 8" floppy disks for it. It was raining so they > got a bit wet. They are drying now. > > > Does anyone know anything about FLUKE machines? They DVMs, specialized test gear, and ISTR a logic analyzer... -dq From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 2 12:13:23 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: RE: FLUKE? (Douglas Quebbeman) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD372259FE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15370.28483.464547.245640@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 2, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I was at the other yard of the scrapper yesterday. He just had in a > > bunch of IBM 3174's and a few large Hitachi data storage units. > > Beside this was another large unit labelled FLUKE. It's too late for > > it but I did get the 8" floppy disks for it. It was raining so they > > got a bit wet. They are drying now. > > > > Does anyone know anything about FLUKE machines? > > They DVMs, specialized test gear, and ISTR a logic analyzer... And a large line of microprocessor emulators and related development systems. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 2 12:07:02 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: <003301c17b56$82529a60$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: >I was at the other yard of the scrapper yesterday. He just had in a >bunch of IBM 3174's and a few large Hitachi data storage units. >Beside this was another large unit labelled FLUKE. It's too late for >it but I did get the 8" floppy disks for it. It was raining so they >got a bit wet. They are drying now. > > >Does anyone know anything about FLUKE machines? Could it have been a piece of Test equipment? Fluke is my favorite DVM manufacturer, and they make a *lot* of test equipement. I've no idea if what you saw was made by the same company, or if they made computer hardware at one time (they do make some pretty cool network testing hardware). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Dec 2 12:12:01 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: FLUKE? Message-ID: <170.4e96df5.293bc8f1@aol.com> In a message dated 12/2/01 9:35:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, KenzieM@sympatico.ca writes: > Does anyone know anything about FLUKE machines? > Fluke makes test equipment including some Board Test machinery in the State of Washington. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/c38d7d9d/attachment.html From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 2 14:15:46 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: <003301c17b56$82529a60$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011202151546.007b6c10@mailhost.intellistar.net> I know something about the Fluke machines but I've never seen one with 8" drives. AFIK Fluke made very few large machines. Joe At 12:26 PM 12/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >I was at the other yard of the scrapper yesterday. He just had in a >bunch of IBM 3174's and a few large Hitachi data storage units. >Beside this was another large unit labelled FLUKE. It's too late for >it but I did get the 8" floppy disks for it. It was raining so they >got a bit wet. They are drying now. > > >Does anyone know anything about FLUKE machines? > > > >Collector of Vintage Computers (www.ncf.ca/~ba600) > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Dec 2 12:32:01 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Scrapping hardware to get it off the books (RE: Is it a Lisa or Mac XL?!) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A00@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > ! I saw ... a SuperMac monitor, smaller than the 19inch > ! Radius I've got, but the bug mentioned a "huge" one in back. > > Really? Any idea if they work, and what shipping to CT > (06520-9040) might be? I'll make an effort to get you the info you're asking for on this, but please be patient, I'm not sure when I can get back there during business hours. > ! I have ... and/or the split keyboard. > > Cool. That is a neat piece of Mac history. How much? How about $25 plus S&H? The numeric keypad is in great shape, but the main KB has yellowed. -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Dec 2 13:47:04 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Scrapping hardware to get it off the books (RE: Is it a Lisa or Mac XL?!) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A05@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Oops! Meant to be private... > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 1:32 PM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Scrapping hardware to get it off the books (RE: Is it a > Lisa or Mac XL?!) > > > > ! I saw ... a SuperMac monitor, smaller than the 19inch > > ! Radius I've got, but the bug mentioned a "huge" one in back. > > > > Really? Any idea if they work, and what shipping to CT > > (06520-9040) might be? > > I'll make an effort to get you the info you're asking for on > this, but please be patient, I'm not sure when I can get back > there during business hours. > > > ! I have ... and/or the split keyboard. > > > > Cool. That is a neat piece of Mac history. How much? > > How about $25 plus S&H? The numeric keypad is in > great shape, but the main KB has yellowed. > > -dq > From bsupnik at nauticusnet.com Sun Dec 2 12:53:58 2001 From: bsupnik at nauticusnet.com (Bob Supnik) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: PDP-9 lives Message-ID: Hans, First, congratulations on this terrific progress! Second, a stop at 22 is probably an unexpected CAL (opcode of 0), which would do an effective JMS 20, pick up the instruction at 21 (probably a HLT to catch the CAL), and then halt with an apparent PC = 22. Take a look at M[20], it should have the PC+1 of the CAL. /Bob -----Original Message----- From: Hans B Pufal To: classiccmp; aek@spies.com; Bob Supnik Sent: 12/1/01 12:59 PM Subject: PDP-9 lives I am very happy to be able to announce that the PDP-9 that we have been working on for quite some time finally began talking to the world again today. We had gotten memory and processor operational, then had to fix a memory fault which developed. TTY I/O posed some problems but finally today it spoke and we could reply. We ran the only two test routines we have on paper tape: the extended memory test and the TTY test. There appears to be some issue with the TTY since part 1 test halts after a while with PC=22, no mention of that in the test writeup! TTY test part 2 runs without error. Anyways, we plan on completeing checkout on this system, fix a couple of burnt our indicator bulbs and get the punch up before starting on the second system we have. That one has a dual dectapes, then we can read the 100 or so tapes trhat came with the system, and run some real software ;-) I'd be interested in knowing the status of other pdp-9's. Regards -- hbp for ACONIT, Grenoble France From leec at slip.net Sun Dec 2 14:01:02 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Apollo Guidance Computer (was History of Computing exam question) In-Reply-To: <3C09C844.10905@aconit.org> Message-ID: The Computer History Museum (formerly The Computer Museum History Center) has one on display. See http://www.computerhistory.org/exhibits/highlights/apollo.page for details. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Hans B Pufal > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 10:21 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apollo Guidance Computer (was History of Computing exam > question) > > > > > CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > > > Found a java applet that simulates the DSKY (display and keyboard) > > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/1556/dsky.html > > > > As MIT designed the AGC's I bet they have all of the documentation > > filed away somewhere. Found some interesting documents at > > http://hrst.mit.edu/hrs/apollo/public/ > > > > 1689.pdf - "Block II keyboard and dsiplay program (RETRED44)" > > Gives a Block II verb/noun list > > > > 1692.pdf - "AGC4 Memo #9 Block II Instructions" > > Block II Memory map and instruction set > > > Sourceforge as a semiactive project to write a simulator don't know if > the code cited above is pert of that or a different project. > > Ther eis also a book about the computers used int he Apollo era. From a > previous (26 Sep 2001) post in cccmp by John Allan: > > > re Eldon Hall's book "Journey to the Moon" > > > BTW It is expensive but worth > > it, even if you like Only computers or only spaceflight. (but both? > > ) > > > Publisher: American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics > > Date: 1996 > > ISBN: 1-56347-185-X > > URLS: > > http://www.aiaa.org/store/storeproductdetail.cfm?ID=358 > > available from Amazon but url is too long to post ;-) > > -- hbp > > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 14:18:58 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Altair, 8080 assembler Message-ID: <006601c17b6e$9414e1a0$7a469280@y5f3q8> Anyone have a quick rundown on the front panel operations for an altair? I've been playing with altair32, but I never had the real thing, so I can only guess at what some of the switches do. And maybe recommentations on cross assemblers (x86/win32), or at least a LART in the right direction? My google searches aren't too helpful. Thanks! Bob From mhstein at usa.net Sun Dec 2 17:16:22 2001 From: mhstein at usa.net (M H Stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' Message-ID: <01C17B5D.74C00200@mse-d03> Oh yeah... I know exactly what you mean... ----------Original Message---------- I did something real stupid when I moved out of my office. I tried to organize the stuff that I was packing. For example, I put all of my staplers (regular ones, binding ones, heavy duty ones, deep throat ones, ....) into one box. Now I can't find 'em, and have NO stapler. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 2 13:10:06 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Dec 2, 1 11:43:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/0339775b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 2 15:13:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 2, 1 11:07:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2078 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/88ca12cd/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 2 15:38:55 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' (Tony Duell) References: Message-ID: <15370.40815.684474.425530@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 2, Tony Duell wrote: > > Eventually, he found the application for it. He marketed a laser printer > > controller, that bypassed the 256K, text only, controller of the HP > > LaserJet, etc, and created complete bitmap images in RAM (on his board) in > > the PC, and dumped them straight into the printer engine. > > Sounds like it worked with a Canon CX-VDO printer. > > This is a Canon CX engine with no internal formatter (controller) board. > It still has the DC controller -- the little microcontroller board for the > mechanics, but the interface is very low level. Essentially you have : I thought that was called an LBP-CX. That was a long time ago, though, so I don't really trust my memory... -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 2 16:52:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <15370.40815.684474.425530@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Dec 2, 1 04:38:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1070 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/0a2cf706/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 15:41:58 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > Eventually, he found the application for it. He marketed a laser printer > > controller, that bypassed the 256K, text only, controller of the HP > > LaserJet, etc, and created complete bitmap images in RAM (on his board) in > > the PC, and dumped them straight into the printer engine. > Sounds like it worked with a Canon CX-VDO printer. > This is a Canon CX engine with no internal formatter (controller) board. > It still has the DC controller -- the little microcontroller board for the > mechanics, but the interface is very low level. Essentially you have : That is entirely correct! The Jlaser was the most widely sold board that provided that interface. They also made a tiny board to go into a LaserJet that would switch it in and out of the system under software control! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 2 15:15:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 2, 1 11:27:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/603ebbb7/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 15:44:55 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I assume, therefore, that you could, in theory, add a daughtboard that > did use the DE9 as a normal serial port and the DB25 as a parallel port. > Even though that board may not ever have existed.... yes > > Since you use CX laser controllers, perhaps you would like one/many ISA > > ones??? daughter card for JRAM?, on board along with the RAM on JLASER. > Hmmm... Is this directed at me? yes. There are few people who know about, much less use the CX engines. (I have also used a Jlaser with SX in a LaserJet model 2). Since few people even know about them, I figure that you'd be one of the most likely to be able to come up with a use for one or more of them. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 2 15:18:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' In-Reply-To: <004a01c17b69$de0a8b20$7a469280@y5f3q8> from "Robert Schaefer" at Dec 2, 1 02:45:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 772 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/b0d8491c/attachment.ksh From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 16:11:02 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <00c101c17b7e$3bb073c0$7a469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 04:18 PM Subject: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > > the chip I broke is marked `D8284A' & `8404HKP" & with the AMD symbol. Any > > chance that is something non-essential that won't keep the board from > > booting? > > Not a hope. It's the CPU (and other) clock generator chip. Without it, > you'll not have any clock signals anywhere Well, I guess it should be pretty easy to strip from another board, then. Knew I saved those clone boards for something! > > -tony Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 15:35:10 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:33 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <008701c17b79$53118180$7a469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 03:31 PM Subject: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > Well, I made a few mistakes. I think it's a PC, not a PC/XT. Five 8 bit > > slots, a DIN tape port on the back, fully populated with 4 banks of 9 4564. > > It is a MCA video card, the `black and white/parallel' was a dead giveaway. > ^^^ > CAREFUL! That would be an MDA (Monochrome Display Adapter), or more > accurately MDP (Monochrome Display & Printer). MCA is MicroChannel > Architecture (as used in PS/2), which it most definitely is NOT. > picky, picky, ... You are absolutely right, and I even know better. I can only plead brain fart. Bob From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Dec 2 15:35:56 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' References: Message-ID: <008801c17b79$54b51f60$7a469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 03:27 PM Subject: Re: Tall Tree Systems`JRAM-3' > On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer wrote: > > I'm in no rush, in fact no true need other than curiousity. I'm getting > > curious about what's on the ST225 in the external case-- it came from the > > same pile, judging by the dirt on it. > > Be aware that XT hard disk controllers are NOT mutually > interchangeable! If it was formatted on an XT compatible hard disk > controller, then you will need THAT model of controller to read it! (Or a > LOT of sector and below level programming!) > On the ATs, they standardized the controllers (almost), and you can read a > drive formatted with a different brand of controller. Ok. The PC has an Adaptec controller assy # 401406-00 with ROMs dated '85 FWIW. I'm pretty sure the drive came with this PC, but worst case I could just reformat, right? No embedded servo tracks that requires a fancy controller/different roms/different controller to write? > > > Interesting. I guess this a real bit of history I have here. > > What's the difference 'tween the various JRAM boards? Max installable ram? > > Mostly just subsequent "improvements". > 8 bit and 16 bit interface > with/without LIM EMS support? This is most assuredly an 8 bit card. Other than that, IDK. Guess I'll just have to wait and see. Oh, it's serial # 803181 too. > > Bob From fdebros at verizon.net Sun Dec 2 15:35:27 2001 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Is a Toshiba T4800ct a classiccomputer? In-Reply-To: <006601c17b6e$9414e1a0$7a469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <000501c17b79$42d4b4e0$6501a8c0@fred> Ok then maybe I find an answer (or pointer) here, although the group seems more unixy to me...I might get shoo'd away with such a modern system. How the h... do I load a scsi interface in DOS or windows onto one of these things attached to a docking station type IV with a scsi disk? In POST, the SCSI interface is recognized, but then it doesn't show the drive in DOS...and I don't have the driver file, but aspi 2 etc. The win98 rescue disk asks the right questions but doesn't startup the disk in dos, autoexec.bat and config.sys are empty! fred From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Dec 2 15:48:02 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Is a Toshiba T4800ct a classiccomputer? In-Reply-To: <000501c17b79$42d4b4e0$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Fred deBros wrote: > Ok then maybe I find an answer (or pointer) here, although the group > seems more unixy to me...I might get shoo'd away with such a modern > system. > How the h... do I load a scsi interface in DOS or windows onto one of > these things attached to a docking station type IV with a scsi disk? In > POST, the SCSI interface is recognized, but then it doesn't show the > drive in DOS...and I don't have the driver file, but aspi 2 etc. The > win98 rescue disk asks the right questions but doesn't startup the disk > in dos, autoexec.bat and config.sys are empty! I put an Adaptec SCSI card and Toshiba CD-ROM drive into the docking station. With Windoze95, it worked great for a few hours, and then the power supply of the docking station died. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Sun Dec 2 17:10:36 2001 From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question In-Reply-To: <030d01c17ad1$c96be710$0300a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <200112022310.MAA15841@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> Geoff Roberts : > [Apollo guidance computer] was the one in the LEM the same machine? I believe it was suffiently similar for the Apollo 13 crew to run the CM software on the LM computer well enough to navigate themselves home. By the way, is there any detailed architectural info about this machine on the Web? I've looked before, but only found general descriptions. Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+ University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a | Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc. | greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+ From jrice at texoma.net Sun Dec 2 17:24:31 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: NeXT stuff References: Message-ID: <3C0AB82F.2060007@texoma.net> I've talked to a couple of people who have Pyro boards. They don't seem too stable. Not that I would mind, I could adapt to rebooting one of my NeXt machines like my Windows machines. Small price to pay I assume? ;-) One Without Reason wrote: >Ok. I had borrowed a soundbox and cables for my NeXT, but the person from >whom I had borrowed them wants them back. Does anyone have an extra >non-ADB soundbox and cables for a NeXT color slab available? My monitor >has 3BNC connection. > >Also, (I know I am doing a bit of wishful thinking here), does anyone have >a Pyro accelerator board for a slab, they wouldn't mind selling? > >Peace... Sridhar > > >. > From univac2 at earthlink.net Sun Dec 2 18:34:48 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: ICOT 57 Terminal Message-ID: I bought a working ICOT Model 57 Terminal at a thrift store tonight. It was used with the American Airlines SABRE system. Does anyone have a keyboard for it, or know anything about it? I'm assuming its interface is RS-232. Am I right? Thanks, Owen From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 2 13:00:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: <003301c17b56$82529a60$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Dec 2, 1 12:26:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 235 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011202/46defb2f/attachment.ksh From msell at ontimesupport.com Sun Dec 2 19:17:36 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: References: <003301c17b56$82529a60$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011202191425.00a92778@127.0.0.1> Fluke actually did make a line of computers that were used as instrument controllers in the late 70's and early 80's. These controllers had support for serial port control and IEEE488, as well as touch screens (some models). From what I understand of these machines, they actually could run a couple of different operating systems (types unknown), as well as several different programming languages. The first offerings from Fluke for automated instrument calibration and control ran on these. I believe one of the model numbers was "1711". Sorry for the vagueness, I've had brief contact with them only. You may have found a disk for one of these controllers. - Matt At 07:00 PM 12/2/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > Does anyone know anything about FLUKE machines? > >Fluke are a well-known (and good) manufacturer of test equipment, etc. > >They certainly made microprocessor development systems at one point, and >I guess that's what you saw. > >-tony Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From spedraja at ono.com Sun Dec 2 15:15:32 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <044701c17b76$79fd8620$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Hello. I have one problem I'd like somebody could help me to solve. I have one TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop. The Microvax can't detect the TK50. This tape unit works perfectly. I have the cover of it retired, and I have located the ribbon that aid to select the SCSI address of the unit. The Microvax haven't attached any other external unit, and internally have two disks. How can I know if the unit is attached ? The SHOW DEVICES in the boot ROM don't says nothing. Greetings Sergio From spedraja at ono.com Sun Dec 2 15:25:02 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: MP/M and Yaze Message-ID: <044a01c17b77$ce2c02c0$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Hello again. I have another matter that could be interesting for somebody (I hope). The Yaze CP/M emulator v.1.20 comex with support for switched memory banks (in appearence). I couldn't review the source code by now. Somebody did it ? I should like to reconstruct one simple MP/M system under it. I know some source code can be donwloaded from http://www.cpm.z80.de and I did it, bit my next problem is related with the modules needed to construct the OS nucleus, and the order of these modules. I could need a hand too with CP/M. I have some doubts about the paper of the CBIOS.ASM and BIOS.ASM modules. Finally, I'm interesting about one fascinating CP/M emulator, the ZRPM. It does one emulation of diverse models of computers that could run CP/M like the Osborne and the Kaypro. I can say that I've loadad two versions of Wordstar for every computer under the same emulator, and loaded one or another adjusting settings internally in the ZRPM telling it was worked in a Kaypro or Osborne portable. I thought all these matters was under control of the BDOS but here are more misterious. Right ? What exactly ? Thanks and Greetings Sergio From steve at airborn.com.au Sun Dec 2 19:55:56 2001 From: steve at airborn.com.au (Steven Murray) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Dataproducts printer inteface Message-ID: <00fc01c17b9d$a7824960$259117d2@garuda> Sorry for the repost... but has anyone heard of the (old) Dataproducts printer inteface? It was also called the Line printer interface, and was used on other Brands besides just Dataproducts. Basically I know it uses differential signals - otherwise similar to centronics - but I would like to find out some details. I have the Pinout: http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/parallel/dataproductsdsub50.html I would really like to find a description of the "Demand" signal and the polarity of "Strobe" and "OnLine" I would like to know the levels (I presume they are TTL) If anyone can help me out, perhaps I can respond in kind by giving them the final result - a circuit for a Centronics-->Dataproducts interface. steve@airborn.com.au From optimus at canit.se Sun Dec 2 19:01:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: AW: Atari 4160STE ?! In-Reply-To: <81BDC19FEA82D311A83900A024F2457F2A7B1D@osiris.e-spirit.de> Message-ID: <764.737T2150T1216287optimus@canit.se> Walgenbach, Stefan skrev: >> While I don't have every single ST component listed, the ST section under >> Atari Computers on my website should be of help to you: >> www.atarimuseum.com >Of course I checked your web-site first for infos about the 4160STe :) >Perhaps some day you have the time to make a complete list of all Atari >Computer Systems - I think there are quite a few unkown systems like the >Atari ST520+, CLab Falcon MK I, II and X - there also was an Atari 520 STE - >very strange ... What's strange about the 520STE? All my STEs are 520 models. The MKX is really sexy. I drooled over one many times when I passed it by in a shop window near my old school. Mmm, now I'm thinking of it again in its rack- mount glory. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sun Dec 2 21:27:03 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: FLUKE? Message-ID: <20011202.212704.-249581.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> I worked for FLUKE in the early 1980's, at their Burbank repair facility, in Burbank Ca (where I also lived). The FLUKE 1720 and 1722 machines did not use 8" floppy drives, they used 5.25" floppies, with optional bubble memory and Winchester (using a GPIB interface). There are only three kinds of system that FLUKE made that utilized (or could have utilized) 8" floppies: 1. FLUKE 3040/3050/3053 series board testers. These are of some interest, because it's the only application I ever saw that used the PACE microprocessor. These things are about the size and shape of an upright piano (and just as heavy). The 'upright' part was covered mit swicthen und blinkenlites. The computer was in a cardcage bolted to the underside of the table, which also helld the 8" drives. They made this cool, low pitched WAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAH! AAAH! AAAH! AAAH! sound when booting. 2. FLUKE 3200 Manufacturing Fault Analyzer. These were largely used to test bare boards and wire harnesses. These are particularly interesting not only because they used 8" floppies, but they used an off-the-shelf computer made by ONTEL. It ran a hacked-up version of CP/M, and was programmed in ATLAS. This beast had *no* blinkenlites. 3. FLUKE 'Terminal/10' analog test system. The T/10 was already old when it was moved to the back of the 1981 FLUKE Catalog. It was an ATE system aimed at analog device testing. It was controlled by a PDP-11 (need I say more?). I think it ran a hacked-up version of RT-11 (but I'm not certain). I've never seen one of these. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From jdonogh1 at prodigy.net Sun Dec 2 21:30:03 2001 From: jdonogh1 at prodigy.net (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Wang info Message-ID: <01120222300300.01447@ws1> I have started putting together some wang info pages on the web, for obsolete/historic systems such as the OIS, and soon, early VS systems. It's just a start right now, but some of it is there for all to see at http://pages.prodigy.net/jdonogh1/wang.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 3 00:19:21 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E bulbs Message-ID: I'm making progress on the PDP-8/E I got this last week. The powersupply checks out once the Front Panel is plugged in, and thanks to all the spare lightbulbs I've got all the burnt out bulbs replaced. Unfortunatly I'm now down to two spares which my -8/m could probably use, the -8/e had nearly half it's bulbs out. This brings up the question, how hard is it to get replacement bulbs? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 3 00:40:54 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E bulbs In-Reply-To: PDP-8/E bulbs (Zane H. Healy) References: Message-ID: <15371.7798.224477.85707@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 2, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm making progress on the PDP-8/E I got this last week. The powersupply > checks out once the Front Panel is plugged in, and thanks to all the spare > lightbulbs I've got all the burnt out bulbs replaced. Unfortunatly I'm now > down to two spares which my -8/m could probably use, the -8/e had nearly > half it's bulbs out. This brings up the question, how hard is it to get > replacement bulbs? I thought all 8/M systems had LED front panels. At least every one I've seen has. Not sure where to find replacements. Newark Electronics has a nice (but expensive) selection of lamps. Also you might want to try Gilway Technical Lamp...if you can't find them online, let me know and I'll dig up a catalog. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Dec 3 00:59:17 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> Hello, I saw a couple of MicroVax II's over the weekend and they look like good project machines. Does anyone in the Houston, TX area have any they want to part with? Never hurts to ask! - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 00:53:57 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Ebay madness -- Kaypro II for $515 References: <01120222300300.01447@ws1> Message-ID: <008b01c17bc7$4857b360$3934cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Two guys who have bid up a Kaypro II to $515 on eBay . . . and there's still 13 hours left. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1301312698 Both joined eBay during the past few weeks, which may explain it. One of them is currently high bidder on an Osborne 01 that is already over $300. I'm going to get my "rare" "museum-grade" Kaypro 4 up for auction right away! -W From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Mon Dec 3 01:34:14 2001 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: <044701c17b76$79fd8620$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> References: <044701c17b76$79fd8620$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Message-ID: <1007364856.27956.2.camel@silke> Some more datapoints, please: - Do you have a TK50 or a TK50Z (I think the "Z" is the indication that it is indeed the real SCSI variant)? Does it have an SCSI-ID-switch on the back? - What model is your '3100? Just plain "MicroVAX3100", or is there some M-Number (like "M40")? - What *does* "SHOW DEV" say? - Do you have one or two SCSI-Busses? Or, maybe easier to answer: Does the machine have a floppy drive installed? - Does one (or both) of the internal disks "disappear" whenever you plug in the TK50? Anyway, usually problems with SCSI-Devices are due to either termination problems, bad cables or conflicting SCSI-ID's. regards ms On Sun, 2001-12-02 at 22:15, SP wrote: > Hello. I have one problem I'd like somebody could > help me to solve. I have one TK50-GA external > SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop. > The Microvax can't detect the TK50. This tape unit > works perfectly. I have the cover of it retired, and > I have located the ribbon that aid to select the > SCSI address of the unit. The Microvax > haven't attached any other external unit, and > internally have two disks. > > How can I know if the unit is attached ? > The SHOW DEVICES in the boot ROM don't says > nothing. > > Greetings > > Sergio > > > > > > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@silke.rt.schwaben.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 3 02:21:08 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > I saw a couple of MicroVax II's over the weekend and they look like > good project machines. Does anyone in the Houston, TX area have any > they want to part with? > > Never hurts to ask! I'm in Houston and have a MircoVax II, but I don't really want to part with it...I bought mine for a project machine a few years ago, but I really don't know when I'll get around to getting it up and running. -Toth From spedraja at ono.com Mon Dec 3 02:26:59 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <001601c17bd4$48243460$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Hello: >Some more datapoints, please: > >- Do you have a TK50 or a TK50Z (I think the "Z" is the indication that >it is indeed the real SCSI variant)? Does it have an SCSI-ID-switch on >the back? It's a TK50Z-GA. Real SCSI (not like the TK50Z-FA for the VS2000). And it has the SCSI ID selector back. >- What model is your '3100? Just plain "MicroVAX3100", or is there some >M-Number (like "M40")? DV-31ATB-A I don't have more info. I think is the more basic Microvax 3100 Desktop Model. I've located only one reference in Google about this model, in one Reseller's Catalog. >- What *does* "SHOW DEV" say? I must check it and print it. >- Do you have one or two SCSI-Busses? Or, maybe easier to answer: Does >the machine have a floppy drive installed? The machine has two scsi buses or ar least two SCSI connectors back, one large and another of lightly minor size. It don't has floppies installed. >- Does one (or both) of the internal disks "disappear" whenever you plug >in the TK50? The VMS boot goes perfect and detects both disks. One is for the system and the other for the user data (at least in my first inquiries). >Anyway, usually problems with SCSI-Devices are due to either termination >problems, bad cables or conflicting SCSI-ID's. It appears the SCSI id's are correctly adjusted. I suspect a little more about the SCSI cable, but it works with other machines. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Dec 3 11:18:08 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Scrapping hardware to get it off the books Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467317@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@Mac.com] ...... ! But I will take anything Apple related that people will just give me ! (although not everything stays with me, better useable macs ! get given out ! to people that can't afford a computer... for instance, the ! Classic II I ! got from David I am giving to someone for Xmas that has no ! computer, the ! kid can at least use it for writing school papers, checking ! email, basic ! web browsing, and playing some games... it is a step ahead of the ! nothingness he can use right now). ! ! -chris Well, I should've just sent the LCII along also, if I knew that. No-one seems to want it! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 12:22:27 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Microchannel ethernet NIC Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF18@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Anybody got one (see subject) they don't want? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Dec 3 02:47:00 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: <20011202.212704.-249581.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>; from jeff.kaneko@juno.com on Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 04:27:03 CET References: <20011202.212704.-249581.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <20011203094700.E420132@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2001.12.03 04:27 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > with optional bubble memory What is this? A type of RAM? Whow does it work? From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Dec 3 07:24:19 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: FLUKE? Message-ID: <001b01c17bfd$d129bb80$6b7b7b7b@ajp> It's not RAM per se. It's basically a disk like structure, the difference is rather than rotate the media they move the magnetic domains around. I have a few 128kbyte (1Mbit) bubbles I use still. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Jochen Kunz To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:11 AM Subject: Re: FLUKE? >On 2001.12.03 04:27 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > >> with optional bubble memory >What is this? A type of RAM? Whow does it work? From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 3 10:16:19 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: Re: FLUKE? (Allison) References: <001b01c17bfd$d129bb80$6b7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: <15371.42323.864664.408545@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 3, Allison wrote: > It's not RAM per se. > > It's basically a disk like structure, the difference is rather than rotate > the media they move the magnetic domains around. I have a few > 128kbyte (1Mbit) bubbles I use still. Yup, it's sequentially accessed. At least one company still sells & supports it, though I don't know if they're actually producing it at this point.. It's a really neat technology. It moves the magnetic domains around "tracks" in (if memory serves) a crystalline garnet substrate. These domains can be set to "0" or "1" and are read by moving them past a detector. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Mon Dec 3 04:14:44 2001 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Antron MST300 (was:RE: Up for Grabs: Intel ICE boxs and pods ) Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021917@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> That's one hell of a pair of cards :) My stuff is definitely Antron though. Their website is at http://www.btinternet.com/~andy.antron/ and they're still doing the same thing.... cheers > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > Sent: 30 November 2001 18:54 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Antron MST300 (was:RE: Up for Grabs: Intel ICE boxs and > pods) > > > If you mean Atron then yes I've heard of them. if fact, I was just > searching for info on them this morning. I have two full length IBM PC > style cards that are both marked "Atron", one plugs into an 8 > bit ISA slot > and the other plugs into a 16-bit ISA slot. The cards have a > ribbon cable > that connects them together at the top. One is marked "Master > Break Trace" > and the other is marked "Slave Break Trace". (looks like > they're for an > emulator). Both boards have a large male 3U type connector on > the outside. > I've posted a picture at > . FWIW > I pulled these > out of an old 286 Compaq Deskpro. I wanted to get the drive > but it was > already gone :-( > > Joe > > > At 05:13 PM 11/30/01 -0000, you wrote: > >Speaking of chip testers has anyone come across the Antron > company and their > >testing equipment? Antron are still going and still selling > test kit to the > >likes of Compaq, but since they didn't reply to my email I'm > assuming they > >had no old documentation. > > > >Basically the MST300 is a 386 based PC with 2 extra ISA > cards that interface > >with the testing 'pods'. I've got pods for the 8086, 80286, > 80386SX and DX, > >Moto 68K and I'm still not sure what they were supposed to > be testing! > > > >I'll post pix on Binary Dinosaurs when I get 'em taken :) > > > >-- > >Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd > >e: adrian.graham@corporatemicrosystems.com > >w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com > >w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum) > > > From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Mon Dec 3 04:40:56 2001 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 150 Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021918@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Hardware wise the Infoserver 150 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 10. Software wise I never got any real chance to hack mine and ATM it's in my storage room along with a VXT1200 X-terminal, which was the reason the 150 existed in the first place - one of the popular DEC bundles of the day was an infoserver and 5 VXTs. The software uses the Local Area Disk protocol (LAD/LAST) for disk services which requires a client to be running on a VAX somewhere (SYS$MANAGER:ESS$STARTUP.COM). VXTs could boot using IP/BOOTP/TFTP. There must be more than just ROM changes to the hardware though. I used to think that the whole reason the 150 came about in the first place was that Digital had a small mountain of 3100/10s lying around so they did their usual trick of using old hardware for new tricks (viz: RL02s as console media for bigger VAXen (6xxx?), PRO380s as consoles for 8xxx's etc). The 150 was superceded by the Infoserver 1000, which was smaller than the RRD42s that it controlled. > > Hi folks. I got a few questions. First, is there anything > that makes > > this box different from a plain-vanilla VAXserver 3100? > Second, does > > anyone have the software for this bad boy? Third, will the > software run > > on a regular VAXserver 3100? Fourth, what does the > software consist of? > > I can provide the software, but the InfoServer 150 is different from a > VAXserver 3100. I've tried to swap the ROMs, but that didn't > work. The > InfoServer 100 is the same as a VAXserver 3100 (but I can't remember > which model) with different ROMs. If you want to try, I can provide > Infoserver 100 ROM images. > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman@dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Dec 3 04:44:44 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706626B@exc-reo1> > The machine has two scsi buses or ar least two SCSI connectors back, > one large and another of lightly minor size. I cannot think of *any* MicroVAX or VAXstation that has two SCSI connectors of *different* sizes. The VAXstation 3100s pretty much all have a single SCSI connector (the small size - HD68 is what I've seen it called in the past). The VAXstation 4000-9x/60 have one Amphenol 50-way SCSI connector (the expansion boxes have two, but connected as an in-out bus). I forget about the 4000-VLC, but it cannot really have room for more than one connector! The MicroVAX 3100 series machines are all (IIRC) in one of two similar boxes - the only difference being the height (the larger one has two trays on to which hard drives may be mounted - the smaller one has only one tray). Looking at the back, there should be three connectors across the top (I think these connectors are always there, even if they are not used internally). The right-most connector (looking from the back, I think) should be the SCSI port; it is a 50-way amphenol connector. This is the same as the conectors on a TK50Z. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com Mon Dec 3 04:54:58 2001 From: Adrian.Graham at corporatemicrosystems.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021919@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> If the TK50 is terminated and the SCSI IDs are correct (tape drives historically were ID5) and it's not seen at the console then something's broken :) There should be a DIL switch on the back of the unit to set the ID if I'm remembering right, and if you've got a stock MV3100 the internal disks will probably be ID3 (system disk) and ID0 or 1 (data). What SCSI cable are you using? To check that the drive itself is OK you can always take it out of its expansion box, whip the cover off the VAX and connect directly to the internal bus next to the 2 disks. HTH > -----Original Message----- > From: SP [mailto:spedraja@ono.com] > Sent: 02 December 2001 21:16 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop > > > Hello. I have one problem I'd like somebody could > help me to solve. I have one TK50-GA external > SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop. > The Microvax can't detect the TK50. This tape unit > works perfectly. I have the cover of it retired, and > I have located the ribbon that aid to select the > SCSI address of the unit. The Microvax > haven't attached any other external unit, and > internally have two disks. > > How can I know if the unit is attached ? > The SHOW DEVICES in the boot ROM don't says > nothing. > > Greetings > > Sergio > > > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Dec 3 07:22:14 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <001401c17bfd$8723d7a0$6b7b7b7b@ajp> The problem may be that it's not a SCSI TK50 but the SASI interfaced TK50 for the MV2000. The difference is the firmware on the SCSI/SASI interface card. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Michael Schneider To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:10 AM Subject: Re: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop >Some more datapoints, please: > >- Do you have a TK50 or a TK50Z (I think the "Z" is the indication that >it is indeed the real SCSI variant)? Does it have an SCSI-ID-switch on >the back? >- What model is your '3100? Just plain "MicroVAX3100", or is there some >M-Number (like "M40")? >- What *does* "SHOW DEV" say? >- Do you have one or two SCSI-Busses? Or, maybe easier to answer: Does >the machine have a floppy drive installed? >- Does one (or both) of the internal disks "disappear" whenever you plug >in the TK50? > >Anyway, usually problems with SCSI-Devices are due to either termination >problems, bad cables or conflicting SCSI-ID's. > >regards > >ms > > >On Sun, 2001-12-02 at 22:15, SP wrote: >> Hello. I have one problem I'd like somebody could >> help me to solve. I have one TK50-GA external >> SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop. >> The Microvax can't detect the TK50. This tape unit >> works perfectly. I have the cover of it retired, and >> I have located the ribbon that aid to select the >> SCSI address of the unit. The Microvax >> haven't attached any other external unit, and >> internally have two disks. >> >> How can I know if the unit is attached ? >> The SHOW DEVICES in the boot ROM don't says >> nothing. >> >> Greetings >> >> Sergio >> >> >> >> >> >> >-- >Michael Schneider email: ms@silke.rt.schwaben.de >Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de > > People disagree with me. I just ignore them. > (Linus Torvalds) > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Dec 3 07:31:37 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <002401c17bfe$d6a483a0$6b7b7b7b@ajp> From: Carlini, Antonio >The VAXstation 3100s pretty much all have a single >SCSI connector (the small size - HD68 is what I've >seen it called in the past). I have them with HD68 (VS3100/m76) and standard Amphenol 50 (Vaxserver3100m10e and Microvax3100/m10E). >The MicroVAX 3100 series machines are all >(IIRC) in one of two similar boxes - the >only difference being the height (the larger >one has two trays on to which hard drives >may be mounted - the smaller one has >only one tray). Looking at the back, The smaller can mount up to three drives internally and one externally accessable media (floppy, TK70 or Cdrom). Then there is the BA42 storage box which is the same siaze as a basic 3100 bit hold two 5.25" full height drives typically RZ55 or RZ56. I have a few of these. The connector is Cannon/amphenol 50 pin. Allison From spedraja at ono.com Mon Dec 3 08:57:31 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <002101c17c0a$d5df8f80$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> >> The machine has two scsi buses or ar least two SCSI connectors back, >> one large and another of lightly minor size. > >I cannot think of *any* MicroVAX or VAXstation that >has two SCSI connectors of *different* sizes. It has two connectors of Centronics type. One is a large Centronics type connector, over the three MMJ connectors. The other one is, seeing the CPU in its back, at the LEFT, covered by one semiespheric cover. This is a "short" Centronics connector. I have the TK50 connected actually to the large Centronics connector because is the same than the manufactured with the TK50. But this don't work, at least by now. I have no cable to connect the TK50Z-GA to the short Centronics connector. The central unit only put "Microvax 3100" in the front. Is a desktop, not a tower. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From spedraja at ono.com Mon Dec 3 09:02:29 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <002601c17c0b$87ce1900$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> >If the TK50 is terminated and the SCSI IDs are correct (tape drives >historically were ID5) and it's not seen at the console then something's >broken :) There should be a DIL switch on the back of the unit to set the ID Yes, it's in the back. I've tried all the adresses. >if I'm remembering right, and if you've got a stock MV3100 the internal >disks will probably be ID3 (system disk) and ID0 or 1 (data). >What SCSI cable are you using? One large Centronics SCSI to one large Centronics SCSI (I speak about the connectors in both extremes of cable). >To check that the drive itself is OK you can always take it out of its >expansion box, whip the cover off the VAX and connect directly to the >internal bus next to the 2 disks. I was think about it, but I should like to do something less "busy" ;-) Thanks and Greetings Sergio From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 3 11:29:48 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: <002601c17c0b$87ce1900$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092654.00a256e0@www.mcmanis.com> Well there is only one size of Centronics SCSI connector, and its 50 pin. You probably have the multiport serial option card which is a smaller (36) pin SCSI connector that connects to a cable that splits it out into 4 serial ports. The external SCSI is an option on this system, its possible you don't have it. When you boot you do a test 50 and it shows two scsi busses? If not then you need to "tap in" to the internal bus to get the TK50 on line. --Chuck At 04:02 PM 12/3/01 +0100, you wrote: > >If the TK50 is terminated and the SCSI IDs are correct (tape drives > >historically were ID5) and it's not seen at the console then something's > >broken :) There should be a DIL switch on the back of the unit to set the >ID > > >Yes, it's in the back. I've tried all the adresses. > > >if I'm remembering right, and if you've got a stock MV3100 the internal > >disks will probably be ID3 (system disk) and ID0 or 1 (data). > >What SCSI cable are you using? > >One large Centronics SCSI to one large Centronics SCSI (I speak about >the connectors in both extremes of cable). > > >To check that the drive itself is OK you can always take it out of its > >expansion box, whip the cover off the VAX and connect directly to the > >internal bus next to the 2 disks. > > >I was think about it, but I should like to do something less "busy" ;-) > >Thanks and Greetings > >Sergio From jrice at texoma.net Mon Dec 3 07:44:06 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: O.T. S. ring is at it again Message-ID: <3C0B81A6.10505@texoma.net> I keep getting replies to my own posts from S. ring containing a virus. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Dec 3 07:51:33 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E bulbs Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011203075133.00972560@ubanproductions.com> I get replacement bulbs for my PDP11 at the local electronics store. If you know the voltage, all you have to do is match the base. You may also be able to find them at: http://www.digikey.com --tom At 10:19 PM 12/2/01 -0800, you wrote: >I'm making progress on the PDP-8/E I got this last week. The powersupply >checks out once the Front Panel is plugged in, and thanks to all the spare >lightbulbs I've got all the burnt out bulbs replaced. Unfortunatly I'm now >down to two spares which my -8/m could probably use, the -8/e had nearly >half it's bulbs out. This brings up the question, how hard is it to get >replacement bulbs? > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > From stuart at zen.co.uk Mon Dec 3 08:06:46 2001 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (Stuart Birchall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Free PDP 11/23 and disk drive (UK) References: <3.0.5.32.20011203075133.00972560@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <00a001c17c03$be7a8090$570917d4@office.zen.co.uk> Populated and once operational (still should be) PDP 11/23 CPU, and a disk drive. Free collection, northwest UK. Thanks. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 3 12:05:31 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E bulbs In-Reply-To: <15371.7798.224477.85707@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: PDP-8/E bulbs (Zane H. Healy) Message-ID: > I thought all 8/M systems had LED front panels. At least every one >I've seen has. You know, now that I think about it, I believe you're right. I guess that goes to show how long it's been since I've touched my -8/m! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Dec 3 08:40:46 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Kalpana Etherswitch docs/firmware? In-Reply-To: <20011122123402.A13989@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 12:34:02PM -0600 References: <20011122123402.A13989@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20011203084046.B6871403@uiuc.edu> I believe That they became the Cisco 3000 line of 10-mbit switches. From what I know of them, they're virtually identical to the Kalpana switch that Cisco bought the company get, so the Cisco docs might help if you can find them... Bill Bradford said: > They got bought by Cisco, which seems to have buried the product. > > Anybody got docs/firmware for either a Kalpana Etherswitch EPS-1500 > or a 2015-RS? > > Thanks. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011203/f990242e/attachment.bin From spedraja at ono.com Mon Dec 3 08:49:14 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Free PDP 11/23 and disk drive (UK) Message-ID: <001801c17c09$ad4c6760$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Hello, Stuart. Impossible shipping to Santander, Spain ? (by Mail or Transport Agency). Thanks and Greetings Sergio -----Mensaje original----- De: Stuart Birchall Para: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Fecha: lunes, 03 de diciembre de 2001 15:27 Asunto: Free PDP 11/23 and disk drive (UK) >Populated and once operational (still should be) PDP 11/23 CPU, and a disk >drive. >Free collection, northwest UK. >Thanks. > > From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Dec 3 08:59:58 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Martha Stewart In-Reply-To: ; from tothwolf@concentric.net on Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 07:35:36PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20011203085958.C6871403@uiuc.edu> Excellent idea! I've been contemplating using an old IRIS Crimson server as a end table... it's just about the same size as a large mini-fridge :-) Tothwolf said: > On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > I was going to mention that but last discussion about PS/2 towers as bed > > tables and PDP's for living room stuff got nasty so I thought I'd hold that > > thought :-) > > Even tho I don't think they are considered "classics" quite yet...I've > thought about using some of my old SGI 4D "single tower" boxes as tables > in the den...Only hard part is hiding their huge 20A power cables if I > want to keep using them :) > > -Toth - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011203/f2e43f74/attachment.bin From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 09:18:20 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:34 2005 Subject: Off Topic - stereo to PC question Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF0E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com] > I use a combination of RayGun and Bias Peak on a Echo Products Darla24 > soundcard. I've dedicated my old PowerMac 8500/180 to this, though > hopefully one of these days I'll be able to move it to a > souped up 9500 or > 9600. > There are simular solutions for Windows based PC's. For windows, centrillium (I doubt that's the proper spelling) software's "cool edit" is a decent editor, with (IIRC) a downloadable demo. Nothing too fancy, but it will probably "transfer ... from cassette" with no problem. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 10:06:18 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Off Topic - stereo to PC question Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF10@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Carlos Murillo [mailto:cmurillo@emtelsa.multi.net.co] > Get a good cassette deck; I hope that your tapes were recorded > using Dolby C, or at least B. In either case, the high > freq response is already lost, but during playback/recording, > you might actually null out some high frq noise... As long as we're hypothetically copying hard to find tapes, and willing to shell out for hardware, you might also consider a recording device that was designed for the task. It seems to me that one can get a decent digital multitracking device for the cost of a decent multitracking software package these days ;) (I may be exaggerating here... but they're cheap) For instance, I've seen a new unit -- a Boss BR-532 -- which records on "smartmedia" (4-track), and lists around $400 (I think). I hear that the 128M cards, which are said to hold 90 minutes of audio run about $45. Obviously this uses some compression, and you wouldn't get the best quality, but it would provide an easy way of mixing some of the hiss out and adding some mastering effects if you'd like. This might also be problematic for recording a cassette tape since I think it only has one channel in. (You could do it, though) I wouldn't use this for doing original recording personally, but for re-mastering a cassette, or other light-duty stuff, it may be just the ticket. I personally have a Fostex VF08, which I paid about $480 for from audiolines.com, but which lists around $599. It's a slightly more heavy solution, and has 5GB or so of disk in it. No compression, sound records at 44.1khz 16-bit. The unit also has 20-bit ADC and 24-bit DAC with 64/128x oversampling respectively. It's an 8-track unit with 2 channels in. I can tell you from experience that this machine could probably make "smashing pumpkins" sound good. (My opinion, of course... and don't get me started on "smashing pumpkins.") (These are mostly from memory, so I might be wrong on some of this... look it up) At any rate, one could record, mix, and master the cassette on a similar unit, and transfer the resulting digital audio to your computer through the SPDIF digital out. Wow, that was tangential. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 09:25:23 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Looking for CPT 9000 word processor Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF0F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@vintage.org] > I am looking for a CPT 9000 word processor, circa 1988. It has a page > display and is based on an Intel 80286. I have one, but I think I'm keeping it, at least for now. They're interesting machines. The full-page white-mono EGA graphics setup is a nice touch. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Dec 3 09:40:02 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: B+H Iris board sets Message-ID: Free for postage/shipping (or pickup in Chicago): 4 - B+H Iris (ca. 1986-88) 2-slot/3-board sets: CPU Board w/TMX34010 32-bit Graphis System Processor, 32 chips D41264-15 Video RAM; SCSI (?) board; Parallel Printer/Scanner board. 2 sets are complete, 1 is missing the TMX chip, 1 is missing the TMX and a Bt454KPJ170 chip. 1 copy Texas Instruments TMS34010 User's Guide. Board sets weigh 2 lb 3 oz each. email me off-list at Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com. From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 3 09:58:28 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (One Without Reason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Sun Roadrunner Message-ID: Hey people. I was wondering if anyone here were familiar with the internals of the Sun Roadrunner (386i). Specifically, I am looking for someone who can tell me exactly what is different between a Roadrunner and a PC. Depending on how difficult it will be, I might try to build a modern Roadrunner from new commodity components. I have an actual 386i/25, and a 486i for compatibility testing. Peace... Sridha From LFessen106 at aol.com Mon Dec 3 10:16:41 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Sun Roadrunner Message-ID: <11d.85b0d8a.293cff69@aol.com> In a message dated 12/3/01 11:08:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, vance@ikickass.org writes: > Hey people. I was wondering if anyone here were familiar with the > internals of the Sun Roadrunner (386i). Specifically, I am looking for > someone who can tell me exactly what is different between a Roadrunner and > a PC. Depending on how difficult it will be, I might try to build a > modern Roadrunner from new commodity components. I have an actual > 386i/25, and a 486i for compatibility testing. > > Peace... Sridha > > You have a 486i? Wow! I have a 386i, but can't really get it working *yet* because it has a bad prom.. -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Dec 3 10:00:59 2001 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Ebay madness -- Kaypro II for $515 References: <01120222300300.01447@ws1> <008b01c17bc7$4857b360$3934cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3C0BA1BB.FF521228@ccp.com> "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > > Two guys who have bid up a Kaypro II to $515 on eBay . . . and there's > still 13 hours left. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1301312698 > > Both joined eBay during the past few weeks, which may explain it. One > of them is currently high bidder on an Osborne 01 that is already over > $300. > > I'm going to get my "rare" "museum-grade" Kaypro 4 up for auction right > away! > > -W I guess it is true that some people have more money then brains. I have an idea, let's auction off shares of Enron and see what happens? the ever thrifty, Gary Hildebrand From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Dec 3 10:04:55 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Ebay madness -- Kaypro II for $515 In-Reply-To: <008b01c17bc7$4857b360$3934cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: No, put up a Kaypro 1. Everyone knows that the lower the number, the older the machine! *snicker* :) g. On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Two guys who have bid up a Kaypro II to $515 on eBay . . . and there's > still 13 hours left. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1301312698 > > Both joined eBay during the past few weeks, which may explain it. One > of them is currently high bidder on an Osborne 01 that is already over > $300. > > I'm going to get my "rare" "museum-grade" Kaypro 4 up for auction right > away! > > -W > > > > From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 10:36:57 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Ebay madness -- Kaypro II for $515 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF12@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne M. Smith [mailto:wmsmith@earthlink.net] > Two guys who have bid up a Kaypro II to $515 on eBay . . . and there's > still 13 hours left. [snip] > I'm going to get my "rare" "museum-grade" Kaypro 4 up for > auction right > away! I suppose my $3 kaypro 2 was a good investment, then. Wonderful machine, btw -- built like a tank. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 10:17:23 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF11@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > Leaving Hitler out of a world history would be like leaving > IBM PC (5150) > out of a list of significant computers. I took the question a different way. As I interpreted it, the computers were supposed to be "significant" in terms of design. The IBM PC wasn't. It was pretty much all re-hash of something else. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 3 01:21:22 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF11@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C0B27F2.5AED606C@jetnet.ab.ca> Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > > > Leaving Hitler out of a world history would be like leaving > > IBM PC (5150) > > out of a list of significant computers. > > I took the question a different way. As I interpreted it, the computers > were supposed to be "significant" in terms of design. The IBM PC wasn't. > It was pretty much all re-hash of something else. > > Regards, > > Chris Well when I first saw a PC ( clone that is ) , I thought "WOW A real keyboard, good display ( Upper / Lower Case ) and dual floppies all in one box". 512K ram max sounded like a lot of memory too. Compared to the 8 bit toy market at the time Z80's,C64's,Coco's that was a lot of power. It was the small 16 bit addressing that killed the 8 bitters. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 12:15:31 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF16@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > Christopher Smith wrote: > > I took the question a different way. As I interpreted it, > the computers > > were supposed to be "significant" in terms of design. The > IBM PC wasn't. > > It was pretty much all re-hash of something else. > Well when I first saw a PC ( clone that is ) , I thought > "WOW A real keyboard, good display ( Upper / Lower Case ) > and dual floppies all in one box". 512K ram max sounded > like a lot of memory too. Compared to the 8 bit toy market > at the time Z80's,C64's,Coco's that was a lot of power. > It was the small 16 bit addressing that killed the 8 bitters. May have been unusual at the time. I doubt it was the first machine to have any of that. A VAX-11/750 with a vt-100, for instance, would have had all that less the dual-floppies and with a much higher maximum RAM limit ;) Seriously, though, some older CP/M boxes also had real keyboards, decent displays and dual floppies. (Some of which was optional, mind you... as were _any_ floppies on the PC, AFAIK, in that you bought them separately :) Also you could say that it was the first available 16-bit home computer (depending on your definition of 16-bit), but you'd be wrong... (Quick search says that several people believe this was the TI-99, actually, which also had a real keyboard, and could have had the dual floppies) Ultimately, the 32-bit systems were pretty close on its heels -- I have a timeline that places the PC in '82, and the Apple Lisa in '83. I don't know if this is correct... I have no idea how the peesee actually lasted as long as it has. There were several 32-bit systems on the market by 1984 or so (though, my personal favorite was done in '87 with the Acorn Archimedes). Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 10:41:18 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF13@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > > I saw a couple of MicroVax II's over the weekend and they look like > > good project machines. Does anyone in the Houston, TX area have any > > they want to part with? > > Never hurts to ask! > I'm in Houston and have a MircoVax II, but I don't really want to part > with it...I bought mine for a project machine a few years ago, but I > really don't know when I'll get around to getting it up and running. I'm not in the area. I do have an enclosure for a MicroVAX II, and some boards (CPU and some RAM) I believe I tested the CPU, and it's working. The RAM may not work with that specific CPU, and the enclosure has power-supply problems. (basically it's all left-overs from when I was trying to get parts for mine) I don't want to ship, though, since it may as well be a 3-foot-tall block of solid lead. Nice machines -- built like tanks ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 3 11:22:57 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092229.00a49d50@www.mcmanis.com> I'm in Sunnyvale, and would part with one. --Chuck From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon Dec 3 11:43:45 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3C0B6571.27551.861D5A@localhost> Hi Matt, Gee, I wonder where you saw those? :-) Now to finish getting one running. Need to play Empire. David On 3 Dec 2001, at 0:59, Matthew Sell wrote: > > Hello, > > > I saw a couple of MicroVax II's over the weekend and they look like > good project machines. Does anyone in the Houston, TX area have any > they want to part with? > > Never hurts to ask! > > > - Matt ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From mranalog at attbi.com Mon Dec 3 12:44:57 2001 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: FYI: AT HOME Message-ID: <3C0BC829.96A34FBA@attbi.com> Hi All, If anyone is expecting mail for an @HOME.com customer, you may have a small wait. @HOME shut down about midnight local time on Saturday. I was very lucky (I guess) because I was able to get back on the servers Sunday morning to change my account. I am no longer mranalog@home.com, I am now mranalog@attbi.com. AT&T says that some customers may be out of service for as much as 10 days. Of course, my service was back just long enough yesterday for me to resubscribe to to a few discussion lists and then it was out again. This morning sending mail seems fine but receiving mail is painfully slow. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward Poulsbo, Washington Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ========================================= From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Mon Dec 3 12:59:18 2001 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: <002101c17c0a$d5df8f80$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> References: <002101c17c0a$d5df8f80$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Message-ID: <1007405959.7165.1.camel@silke> No, that does not soud correct. The external SCSI-Connector (if you have one) on a MV3100 is a rather small, 68-PIN-HD-like connector, comparable to modern SCSI-III connectors. You might have one of those serial multiport cards.. You're TK50 is the "right" one, though... ms On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 15:57, SP wrote: > > >> The machine has two scsi buses or ar least two SCSI connectors back, > >> one large and another of lightly minor size. > > > >I cannot think of *any* MicroVAX or VAXstation that > >has two SCSI connectors of *different* sizes. > > > It has two connectors of Centronics type. One is a > large Centronics type connector, over the three > MMJ connectors. > > > The other one is, seeing the CPU in its back, at > the LEFT, covered by one semiespheric cover. > This is a "short" Centronics connector. > > I have the TK50 connected actually to the large > Centronics connector because is the same than > the manufactured with the TK50. But this don't work, > at least by now. I have no cable to connect the > TK50Z-GA to the short Centronics connector. > > The central unit only put "Microvax 3100" in the front. > Is a desktop, not a tower. > > Thanks and Greetings > > Sergio > > > > > > > > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@silke.rt.schwaben.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Dec 3 13:07:50 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Martha Stewart (A badtrans Virus ????) References: <20011203085958.C6871403@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <01b001c17c2d$ce1f12c0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I was NOT really sure about this email............ Is it a w32@badtrans.b/mm wormvirus or a genuine mail with attached emails????? 1) There was nothing in the body of the mail itself 2) I've had a few mails containing almost the same kinda attachments the last week that did contain the offending virus. 3) Looking into the source made me feel secure! OK! ------- Kind Request ---------------------------------- So please, if anybody on the list is sending mail with an attachment, mention it and it's purpose in the bodytext -------------------------------------------------------- I've had to remove "the bastard" from a computer of a friend and it took me a couple of hours to clean things up. (Windooooz ME !@&^^###Archg!!!!) Thanx Sipke de Wal "So, You are paranoid?...... Well, uhhhh are you paranoid enough!" -------------------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ps: You'll find a "FixBtrans.exe" removal-tool in the antivirus section of my site (symantec version). In case anybody needs it. (Original attachments removed!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Wright To: Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Martha Stewart From matt at knm.org.uk Mon Dec 3 13:11:10 2001 From: matt at knm.org.uk (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Free PDP 11/23 and disk drive (UK) In-Reply-To: <00a001c17c03$be7a8090$570917d4@office.zen.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi, > Populated and once operational (still should be) PDP 11/23 CPU, and a disk > drive. > Free collection, northwest UK. Still there? Where abouts are you? (Manchester/Warrington here) I don't know much about PDP/11's - this is Qbus based right? (I have an empty BA23 here) -- Matt --- E-mail: matt@pkl.net, matt@knm.yi.org, matt@printf.net matt@m-techdiagnostics.ltd.uk, matthew.london@stud.umist.ac.uk mattl@vcd.student.utwente.nl, mlondon@mail.talk-101.com Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Mon Dec 3 13:12:41 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: Because it had "IBM" on the front, which gave it validity in the business world. Could you imagine some mid-level/upper-level executive with an Apple II on his desk? Being first, or being the best, does not guarantee success. -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:16 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: History of Computing exam question I have no idea how the peesee actually lasted as long as it has. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 13:21:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: <15371.42323.864664.408545@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <001b01c17bfd$d129bb80$6b7b7b7b@ajp> <15371.42323.864664.408545@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <01Dec3.153348est.119100@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > Yup, it's sequentially accessed. At least one company still sells & >supports it, though I don't know if they're actually producing it at >this point.. It's a really neat technology. It moves the magnetic >domains around "tracks" in (if memory serves) a crystalline garnet >substrate. These domains can be set to "0" or "1" and are read by >moving them past a detector. At one point, wasn't TI a large supplier of bubble memory? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 3 13:59:55 2001 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: <15371.42323.864664.408545@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: FLUKE? (Allison) Message-ID: <3C0B855B.11900.19B7FF52@localhost> I have a program by Charles Martin called CMFiler which I have used for years and consider indispensable for exploring Doze machines. It is somewhat like NC but with many more features and has worked (in a dos window) thru all the MS upgrades(?) up to Win 98 at least. It would occasionally give a message "bubble-sorting files" when I accessed a drive. Does this simply mean sequentially ordering ? Lawrence > On December 3, Allison wrote: > > It's not RAM per se. > > > > It's basically a disk like structure, the difference is rather than rotate the > > media they move the magnetic domains around. I have a few 128kbyte (1Mbit) > > bubbles I use still. > > Yup, it's sequentially accessed. At least one company still sells & > supports it, though I don't know if they're actually producing it at > this point.. It's a really neat technology. It moves the magnetic > domains around "tracks" in (if memory serves) a crystalline garnet > substrate. These domains can be set to "0" or "1" and are read by > moving them past a detector. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 3 14:25:48 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: Re: FLUKE? (Lawrence Walker) References: <3C0B855B.11900.19B7FF52@localhost> Message-ID: <15371.57292.886150.603102@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 3, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I have a program by Charles Martin called CMFiler which I have used for > years and consider indispensable for exploring Doze machines. It is > somewhat like NC but with many more features and has worked (in a dos > window) thru all the MS upgrades(?) up to Win 98 at least. > It would occasionally give a message "bubble-sorting files" when I accessed > a drive. Does this simply mean sequentially ordering ? The "bubble sort" is a classic sorting algorithm. That's probably the algorithm the programmer used to sort the list of files. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From mythtech at Mac.com Mon Dec 3 13:31:26 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Microchannel ethernet NIC Message-ID: >Anybody got one (see subject) they don't want? Do you want BNC, RJ45, or AUI? I have one that is BNC and AUI, and one that is RJ45 and BNC, and one that I think is ethernet that is BNC only. The BNC only one is the only one NOT in use, the others are in machines. I can part with one, but it will mean swapping the machine off the network, so I can't part with it for nothing. If you have good Mac or Apple stuff I can consider a trade, otherwise I can sell it to you (I am not sure what a fair price is, but it will cost me about $25 to deal with replacing it and the machine it comes from). -chris From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 3 13:38:23 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (One Without Reason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Microchannel ethernet NIC In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF18@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: I have 10Mbps cards I can get rid of real cheap, and 100Mbps cards I need money for. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Christopher Smith wrote: > Anybody got one (see subject) they don't want? > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 14:36:57 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Microchannel ethernet NIC Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF1B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Probably RJ45. It is for a friend's machine, though, so I'll have to check. I have gotten an offer of an RJ45 board via email, though, if that's the case. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@Mac.com] > >Anybody got one (see subject) they don't want? > Do you want BNC, RJ45, or AUI? > I have one that is BNC and AUI, and one that is RJ45 and BNC, and one > that I think is ethernet that is BNC only. From CLeyson at aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:46:43 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Ebay madness -- Kaypro II for $515 Message-ID: <181.120b54.293d30a3@aol.com> I hope this madness doesn't start a trend - where would that leave the serious enthusiast ? It does beg the question - might it be worth more with "purple" ceramic packages ? ;-) Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011203/74cd6729/attachment.html From lgwalker at mts.net Mon Dec 3 13:59:55 2001 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Ebay madness -- Kaypro II for $515 In-Reply-To: <008b01c17bc7$4857b360$3934cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3C0B855B.20042.19B7FEDF@localhost> Well one positive thing is that the Kaypro is going for more than the Osborne . It was generally acknowledged that it was a much better machine, but the aura of Adam Osborne's persona has generally made the Osborne more popular to collectors. The description mentions the Perfect Software package but it isn't included in the package. I have a pristine set of this, put out by Pied Piper. In the manuals it brags about being written in C and therefore easily transportable to other platforms. There is also some stuff in the startup procedures about the Dos prompt meaning any of the Dos systems such as CP/M, MSDOS, and CPM/86. One of the 4 disks I have is a CP/M system disk and I seem to remember that the start-up asked what system you were using. There are 2 Perfect program disks and a Workdisk. Were the program disks simply some sort of overlay that could be used if you had the relevant system disk or was it like the Commodore/Atari programs in which you had system specific disks ? ISTR that my Uniform program could read CP/M files rather than simply reformatting them like Teledisk. My Kaypros and CP/M machines are still on the unpacking list waiting for a CP/M corner to be set up so I can't explore it at this time. Also the Kaypros Achilles heel, the disk drive system, was giving me problems. Lawrence > Two guys who have bid up a Kaypro II to $515 on eBay . . . and there's > still 13 hours left. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1301312698 > > Both joined eBay during the past few weeks, which may explain it. One > of them is currently high bidder on an Osborne 01 that is already over > $300. > > I'm going to get my "rare" "museum-grade" Kaypro 4 up for auction right > away! > > -W > > > Reply to: lgwalker@mts.net From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Mon Dec 3 14:21:15 2001 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: <1007405959.7165.1.camel@silke> Message-ID: Hi, > No, that does not soud correct. > The external SCSI-Connector (if you have one) on a MV3100 is a rather > small, 68-PIN-HD-like connector, comparable to modern SCSI-III > connectors. > > You might have one of those serial multiport cards.. > You're TK50 is the "right" one, though... Just my 2p's worth, but, my MV3100/m10e has a 50 pin centronics SCSI connector - it's hooked into the scsi bus, I can see that by looking at it - the cable connecting it has my 2nd internal HDD attached :&) I also have the serial port option, which is a 37pin centronics. (Oh, what's the 50 pin HD-DB type connector? line-printer?) -- Matt --- PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 3 14:38:21 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... -dq From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Dec 3 14:42:24 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? Message-ID: Why is it that anytime anyone asks: "Does anyone in my small geographical area have a 'foo' they want to get rid of?" there is invariably a slew of "I have one, but don't want to get rid of it" or "I have one I want to get rid of, but not in your area, and not willing to ship" messages? If you're not in the area, or you don't want to get rid of it, why reply? I mean it's gotta be annoying to the original poster to hear of others in the area, with the "foo" he needs, but who don't want to get rid of it. It's not bad that they have the "foo", but it seems like the reply is rubbing his face in it.... Rich B. From ip500 at home.com Mon Dec 3 14:45:37 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: FYI: AT HOME References: <3C0BC829.96A34FBA@attbi.com> Message-ID: <3C0BE471.ADE02E42@home.com> HUH ??? I know they were having problems and the bankruptcy judge gave them the option to shut down .. but here I am, still on home.com, and still typing away. I assume Cox Cable [and I should have thought AT&T] cut a deal with them to stay online. I did notice the mail server was VERY slow on Sunday, but otherwise it's cranking right along. Webspace is still available and usable on their server. Craig Doug Coward wrote: > > Hi All, > If anyone is expecting mail for an @HOME.com > customer, you may have a small wait. > > @HOME shut down about midnight local time on > Saturday. I was very lucky (I guess) because > I was able to get back on the servers Sunday > morning to change my account. > > I am no longer mranalog@home.com, I am now > mranalog@attbi.com. > > AT&T says that some customers may be out of > service for as much as 10 days. > > Of course, my service was back just long > enough yesterday for me to resubscribe to > to a few discussion lists and then it was > out again. This morning sending mail seems > fine but receiving mail is painfully slow. > Regards, > --Doug > ========================================= > Doug Coward > Poulsbo, Washington > > Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog > ========================================= From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 3 15:10:48 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Rant eh? I could do that, but I don't think it would be too useful to anyone here ;P > Why is it that anytime anyone asks: "Does anyone in my small geographical > area have a 'foo' they want to get rid of?" there is invariably a slew of "I > have one, but don't want to get rid of it" or "I have one I want to get rid > of, but not in your area, and not willing to ship" messages? > > If you're not in the area, or you don't want to get rid of it, why reply? As for *my* reply to the thread, I might eventually be willing to part with my BA123, but I really don't think I want to right now. Currently there is no way to get to it anyway, since it is buried under 8ft. of other computer stuff. Now, to change the subject of this thread, does anyone know of any "classic computer" user groups in the Houston area? -Toth From mythtech at Mac.com Mon Dec 3 15:33:27 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? Message-ID: >I mean it's gotta be annoying to the original poster to hear of others in >the area, with the "foo" he needs, but who don't want to get rid of it. >It's not bad that they have the "foo", but it seems like the reply is >rubbing his face in it.... Hey, I have a ton of extra foo, and I am willing to ship it, even international! LOL... ok, it is one of those days, I am in one of those moods... fear not, I understand your point, and I have to agree... getting your face rubbed in foo is no fun! :-) -chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 3 14:41:58 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E bulbs In-Reply-To: Tom Uban "PDP-8/E bulbs" (Dec 3, 7:51) References: <3.0.5.32.20011203075133.00972560@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <10112032041.ZM5422@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 7:51, Tom Uban wrote: > I get replacement bulbs for my PDP11 at the local electronics store. If > you know the voltage, all you have to do is match the base. You may also > be able to find them at: http://www.digikey.com Hmm, I'd not be too sure about that. I believe the correct bulbs are 12V or perhaps 14V, T1-3/4 bi-pin, 0.04A (that's 40mA). I've seen 14V 80mA bulbs in a few places, but I'm not sure if they would be "safe" in the panel - they'd draw twice the current and I'm not sure if the driving transistors are rated for that. Anyone know? (I have a panel, but not a print set). If it's any help, I found some of the proper bulbs for my -8/E recently, and they are marked "OSHINO-1 12-09169" or "PL10161 1209169". I think the 12-09169 may be the DEC part number. On test, they draw between 30mA and 35mA at 12V, and between about 35mA and 40mA at 14V. The ones I've found in the Farnell catalogue (cat no 329-216) seem to be made by EBT Technologies, part no 7382, and they're 14V, 80mA, 1.12W, 3.8 lumens, nominal life 15000 hours, priced around 50p (about 72 cents) depending on quantity. I found the same bulbs slightly cheaper in the CPC catalogue, for those of us in the UK. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Dec 3 15:07:30 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066271@exc-reo1> >It has two connectors of Centronics type. One is a >large Centronics type connector, over the three >MMJ connectors. >The other one is, seeing the CPU in its back, at >the LEFT, covered by one semiespheric cover. >This is a "short" Centronics connector. I have a DV-31BTB-A which I know is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 20. Yours, according to the Systems & Options Catalogue I have, is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 10. On the back of mine there is (looking at the back): at the top middle: a DB37 labelled B2 (this is a socket with 37 pins) (I don't think this is available on the Model 10) in the middle row (from left to right) a connector labelled (4-11), this is for an asynch card (DSH32 I think) This is the same "style" as the SCSI connector (i.e., no pins) but is smaller. It is *NOT* a SCSI connector. another DB37 labelled DB37 this is over and slightly to the left of the 3 MMJ connectors. a final connector on the right, labelled with a diamond and a horizontal line through the right hand point. This is the SCSI connector. This connector is the only one that is identical to the connectors on the TK50Z. This is over the printer connector. Having said, if you have the right SCSI cable (i.e. the same connector at both ends) then I don't see how you can possibly have connected to the wrong place. (And it sounds like you have used the RIGHT hand connection and just are unsure what the other one is). BTW: The TK50Z box has two SCSI connections. It does not matter which one you use, but you *must* put a terminator on the other one if you expect the MicroVAX to see the tape drive. I've found a manual with pictures of the connectors. I can scan some pages on Wednesday and email them to you directly if necessary. So a few checks: -- are you using the correct (RIGHT hand) connector? -- Is the unused connector on the TK50Z filled by a terminator? -- What ID is the TK50Z set to? (Avoid 6 & 7 ... the CPU uses one of those ... I forget exactly which because it varied from system to system). -- Avoid any ID used by the existing drives, SHOW DEVICE will list these. The external SCSI bus may well be independent of the internal bus, in which case it will not matter, but again I cannot remember for this system. -- If it still does not work, what to the power up tests say? The error code (if any) should help to track this down. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Mon Dec 3 15:12:15 2001 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1007413936.8892.7.camel@silke> So, i've learned something today 8-) All my 3100's (ok, i have only 3) have that crappy small 68pin connector that wants this special cable that costs an arm and a leg. The 50pin has 3 rows, right? Then it's the "B1 Synchronous Port 1", whatever this may be... ms On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 21:21, Matt London wrote: > Hi, > > > No, that does not soud correct. > > The external SCSI-Connector (if you have one) on a MV3100 is a rather > > small, 68-PIN-HD-like connector, comparable to modern SCSI-III > > connectors. > > > > You might have one of those serial multiport cards.. > > You're TK50 is the "right" one, though... > > Just my 2p's worth, but, my MV3100/m10e has a 50 pin centronics SCSI > connector - it's hooked into the scsi bus, I can see that by looking at it > - the cable connecting it has my 2nd internal HDD attached :&) > > I also have the serial port option, which is a 37pin centronics. > > (Oh, what's the 50 pin HD-DB type connector? line-printer?) > > -- Matt > > --- > PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F > PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html > > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@silke.rt.schwaben.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Dec 3 15:43:42 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066274@exc-reo1> > Michael Schneider wrote: > >So, i've learned something today 8-) > >All my 3100's (ok, i have only 3) have that crappy small 68pin connector >that wants this special cable that costs an arm and a leg. Either you've learned that you have a VAXstation 3100 or you have a @@LOOK@@ **RARE!!!** auction just waiting for ebay :-) >The 50pin has 3 rows, right? Then it's the "B1 Synchronous Port 1", >whatever this may be... I *knew* I shouldn't have hit Send so quickly :-) Yes, it is 50-pin and not 37. Normally this would be an understandable slip up, but having supported DEC synch cards for more than one hand's worth of years I cannot imagine how I let that one slip by. I'll just go and find a piece of wall to hammer my head against :-) Antonio From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 15:09:22 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: FLUKE? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF1F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > The "bubble sort" is a classic sorting algorithm. That's probably > the algorithm the programmer used to sort the list of files. By way of description Standish says in "Data Structure Techniques:" "Let A[1:n] be an array of n numbers. ... Make repeated sweeps over the array A[1:n] from left to right. Upon detecting any adjacent pair of numbers A[i] and A[i+1] not in proper order, exchange them A[i] <-> A[i + 1]. When a pass is completed with no exchanges having been made, the process terminates. " I believe it's called bubble sort because the lesser numerical values tend to "bubble up" to the top of the array. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Dec 3 15:13:16 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Microchannel ethernet NIC In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF18@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: If we didn't want them the trash man would have them :-) I have a couple AUI/BNC types (I think) that I gave like $4 or $5 for a year ago and mailing would be around $3.50 to $4 I imagine. I also have an excess Digital AUI to BNC transponder for $5 if anyone has a need for it. It's a box about 3x3x1 that attaches to an AUI port and gives you BNC 10base2. Also have a package of 10base2 tees on ebay under my "rhblake" username right now. I have some new factory made BNC coax cables that I haven't posted, still in their bags as well. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Christopher Smith -> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:22 PM -> To: Classiccmp (E-mail) -> Subject: Microchannel ethernet NIC -> -> -> Anybody got one (see subject) they don't want? -> -> Regards, -> -> Chris -> -> Christopher Smith, Perl Developer -> Amdocs - Champaign, IL -> -> /usr/bin/perl -e ' -> print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); -> ' -> -> From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 15:17:43 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF20@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: [snip] > This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... That is insane. $50.00 "Reserve not yet met..." :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 3 15:25:49 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: More E-Bay Insanity? (Douglas Quebbeman) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15371.60893.575395.228687@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 3, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 > > This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... Value is in the eye of the beholder, man. Why is it automatically "insane" when someone else views omething as being more valuable than we do? The resale value of the stuff we hack on is going up, and we have to learn to deal with it. It has been for some time. People are buying it at these prices, and it's not just one or two people. Let them spend their money...if they're happy with their purchase, what's wrong with it? Further, one mustn't lose sight of the fact that different things are more readily available in different geographic areas than in others. Just because there are fifty AppleIIs at the corner yard sale in your neighborhood doesn't mean there are fifty of them at EVERY corner yard sale. As a case in point...I'm no newcomer to this field; I've been doing pdp8/pdp11/vax stuff for a solid fifteen years. My first real system was a pdp11/34 which I sold about ten years ago, and have regretted it every since. I've wanted another one for several years, and had been looking for one in earnest in the Washington DC area for a solid three years...never managed to get one, and believe me, I know where to look. I finally bought one locally for about $400, indirectly from a surplus dealer who was sharking on the "antique computer craze" trying to make a ton of money on it. I'm sure he got it for free, and he laughed all the way to the bank. However, I'm VERY happy to have it, and I love the machine. If I hadn't paid that $400, I wouldn't have one. They're simply unobtainium in the DC area. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 3 15:43:29 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: Re: More E-Bay Insanity? (Dave McGuire) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <15371.60893.575395.228687@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15371.61953.34936.495997@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 3, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 > > > > This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... > > Value is in the eye of the beholder, man. Why is it automatically > "insane" when someone else views omething as being more valuable than > we do? But [replying to my own message] I do feel compelled to state that $50 for a 5.25" head cleaning kit is utterly ridiculous... ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Dec 3 16:10:11 2001 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C0BF843.389635A4@ccp.com> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 > > This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... > > -dq I noticed that in the fine print, the reserve ha not yet been met, and the price was at $50. so far, no one has bid on it (wonder why?) Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Dec 3 16:33:55 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Methinks the seller is a complete frigging idiot and needs to be informed of this fact. I'll sell him a q-tip on a stick and a bottle of rubbing alcohol for $45. g. On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 > > This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... > > -dq > > From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 15:28:02 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:35 2005 Subject: Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available ? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF21@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich Beaudry [mailto:r_beaudry@hotmail.com] > If you're not in the area, or you don't want to get rid of > it, why reply? If you're not in the area, then it's because somebody else who wants one might be closer to you. Would you not read similar messages if you were looking for the same item (not necessarily in the same area)? If you have one but don't want to get rid of it, then obviously you've already gone through the process of acquiring said piece of hardware and may be able to offer helpful advice. (Or not... :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 3 04:29:07 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Off-Topic:RANT References: Message-ID: <3C0B53F3.519B1412@jetnet.ab.ca> Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > Rich B. You could add "Did you get virus X today" is my rant. BTW any body have a low cost terminal in WESTERN Canada for sale? -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 3 15:50:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: <3C0B855B.11900.19B7FF52@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Dec 3, 1 01:59:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011203/54ebe0eb/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 3 17:23:03 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Bubble sorts have their place (was: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > 'Bubble Sort' has nothing to do with bubble memory. Bubble sort is a > well-known, very poor, sorting algorithm -- so poor that one book I have > contains the quote (from memory) 'If you know what a bubble sort is, wipe > it from your mind. If you don't, make a point of never finding out' :-) Then that author is an idiot! There are, indeed, MANY situations where a bubble sort is the WRONG one to choose, and therefore would be bad. And, admittedly more situations where it is the WRONG choice than situations where it is the RIGHT choice. BUT, there are a few situations where a bubble sort is significantly superior to all of the "better" sort algorithms. 1) situations of N elements to be sorted, to be presented/displayed R at a time. For example: the sort that e-bay does. A bubble sort (often RIGHT TO LEFT) can select the first R items in a maximum of R passes. Then WHILE you are looking at the first R "5.25 head cleaning" kits, it can be sorting the next R or more. or, with a bibliographic database, such as a library OPAC (Online Public Access Catalog), it can present the first R elements, and sort the rest while you are still absorbing the initial result set. Other, "better" sort algorithms will sort the entire database MUCH faster, but can't display the first R items until AFTER finishing sorting the entire database. 2) taking advantage of existing order. A "better" sort, such as Shell/Metzner, takes the same amount of work to sort regardless of whether the data is a little out of order, or totally random. (BTW, computer Science profs typically are incapable of understanding that not all data to be sorted is completely random, and they base everything that they teach on the premise that the data to be sorted is completely random.) But sometimes there is a need to "re-sort" data that was once in order, but has had additions, changes, or corruptions that have resulted in only part of it being out of order. For example, property records that are alphabetically sorted, but need to be resorted because SOME of the "Owner name" fields have been changed due to transfers. Or, sometimes there is data that is sorted by one field, and needs to be sorted by another field that has a partial correlation with the prior sort field. For example, a DMV file that was sorted by age, but now needs to be sorted by how long somebody has had a driver's license. A bubble sort that alternates between LEFT TO RIGHT and RIGHT TO LEFT (sometimes known as a "Shaker Sort") does better than any other available algorithm at taking advantage of existing order, and can re-establish order with a maximum number of passes equal to the number of elements that were out of place. Meanwhile, the "better" sort is busy resorting the entire database unnecessarily. The bubble sort, is also the EASIEST to implement for a beginning student (hopefully followed, within the hour, by other algorithms.) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 3 17:27:44 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > 'Bubble Sort' has nothing to do with bubble memory. Bubble sort is a > well-known, very poor, sorting algorithm -- so poor that one book I have > contains the quote (from memory) 'If you know what a bubble sort is, wipe > it from your mind. If you don't, make a point of never finding out' :-) > The basic algorithm is : > 1) Compare items 1 and 2 on the list. If they're the wrong way round, > swap them. > 2) Now compare items 2 and 3 (of course item 2 might have been item 1 a > bit ago). Again swap them if they're the wrong way round > 3) Keep on doing that for items k,k+1 until you've compared (and if > necesssary swapped) items n-1, n (where n is the size of the list to sort) You can cut 50% off by: In each pass, compare first and second, second and third, etc ... up to comparison of item N - number of passes. > 4) Now go back and do it again. Always comparing each item with the next > one. And only ever swapping an item with the next one > 5) Keep on going through the list until you have a pass where no items > got swapped. The list is then sorted. It worst case situation, you can save one pass by stopping when you've done N-1 passes, even if that last pass did have a swap. From spc at conman.org Mon Dec 3 17:36:24 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Dec 03, 2001 09:50:09 PM Message-ID: <200112032336.SAA28550@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > > It would occasionally give a message "bubble-sorting files" when I accessed > > a drive. Does this simply mean sequentially ordering ? > > 'Bubble Sort' has nothing to do with bubble memory. Bubble sort is a > well-known, very poor, sorting algorithm -- so poor that one book I have > contains the quote (from memory) 'If you know what a bubble sort is, wipe > it from your mind. If you don't, make a point of never finding out' :-) But it beats out the lesser known Bogosort: Pick two items from the list. Swap if necessary [1]. Repeat until list is sorted. -spc (Must be the one Microsoft patentened 8-) [1] I think. It might just be ``Swap, if needed or not.'' From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 3 15:51:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Dec 3, 1 03:38:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 334 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011203/1672e21f/attachment.ksh From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 3 16:12:18 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF24@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > Value is in the eye of the beholder, man. Why is it automatically > "insane" when someone else views omething as being more valuable than > we do? > The resale value of the stuff we hack on is going up, and we have to > learn to deal with it. It has been for some time. People are buying > it at these prices, and it's not just one or two people. Let them > spend their money...if they're happy with their purchase, what's wrong > with it? > Further, one mustn't lose sight of the fact that different things > are more readily available in different geographic areas than in > others. Just because there are fifty AppleIIs at the corner yard sale > in your neighborhood doesn't mean there are fifty of them at EVERY > corner yard sale. ... ok, I understand this perfectly (believe me!) but this is a head cleaning kit, and anyone who's still got a 5.25" disk likely could take it apart and clean the head without the kit. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 3 16:21:11 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: RE: More E-Bay Insanity? (Christopher Smith) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF24@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <15371.64215.405182.783856@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 3, Christopher Smith wrote: > ... ok, I understand this perfectly (believe me!) but this is a head > cleaning kit, and anyone who's still got a 5.25" disk likely could take it > apart and clean the head without the kit. Yes, I agree...see my later message. :) Hmm...come to think of it, I have a genuine Radio Shack 5.25" head cleaning kit...I think I'll put it up on eBay and see how I do! 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 3 16:51:34 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF20@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Christopher Smith wrote: > > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > That is insane. $50.00 "Reserve not yet met..." :) It would be far MORE insane if it were to get bid up to where it DOES meet the reserve! From spedraja at ono.com Mon Dec 3 16:17:16 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: 3com 1625-0 Message-ID: <00d601c17c48$4547afa0$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Dear fellows, thanks to all for the messages received until this moment about the MV 3100. With independence of this lovely machine, I have one new question. This can be difficult, I've located only 4 hits in Google and all of them referred to catalogs. Somebody has one 3com 1625-0 Coaxial FMS Hub ? I just received one. It's supposed this item has one variable voltage power supply that covers from 110 to 220 volts. Right ? It has too eight coaxial connectors, one AUI connector in the back, and... a couple ot mini-scsi connectors, one male and one female. The most dammned strange combination I saw until this moment. Do you have some info of interest about this item ? Thanks and Greetings Sergio From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Mon Dec 3 16:45:08 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: 3com 1625-0 In-Reply-To: <00d601c17c48$4547afa0$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Message-ID: On 03-Dec-2001 SP wrote: > It has too eight coaxial connectors, one AUI connector > in the back, and... a couple ot mini-scsi connectors, > one male and one female. The most dammned strange > combination I saw until this moment. My guess would be that the mini-scsi connectors aren't scsi but in fact some type of cascading connection. So that multiple hubs can act as a single hub. -Philip From red at bears.org Mon Dec 3 17:12:36 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: 3com 1625-0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2001 gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > My guess would be that the mini-scsi connectors aren't scsi but in fact > some type of cascading connection. So that multiple hubs can act as a > single hub. Correct, they link the hub to a managed hub. You need a hub with the management module installed, though. I'm not sure if it'll do anything without the managed hub, but I guess I could look in my docs to find out for sure. ok r. From ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de Mon Dec 3 16:54:44 2001 From: ms at silke.rt.schwaben.de (Michael Schneider) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066274@exc-reo1> References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066274@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <1007420085.7165.13.camel@silke> Well, both actually: After taking the trouble to turn around and look i've learn that yes, i have indeed 2 VAXStations, but the third is a MicroVAX. With the **RARE!!!** option. To bad i won't sell it; it's my mail server... And don't hammer your head to hard, it might hurt. I know that, i once wanted to impress my little daughter (DON'T ASK!!), but hit the concrete wall insted of the wooden one. My daughter is still laughing. Cheers ms On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 22:43, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > > > Michael Schneider wrote: > > > >So, i've learned something today 8-) > > > >All my 3100's (ok, i have only 3) have that crappy small 68pin > connector > >that wants this special cable that costs an arm and a leg. > > Either you've learned that you have a > VAXstation 3100 or you have a > @@LOOK@@ **RARE!!!** > auction just waiting for ebay :-) > > >The 50pin has 3 rows, right? Then it's the "B1 Synchronous Port 1", > >whatever this may be... > > I *knew* I shouldn't have hit Send so quickly :-) > Yes, it is 50-pin and not 37. Normally this > would be an understandable slip up, but > having supported DEC synch cards for > more than one hand's worth of > years I cannot imagine how I let > that one slip by. I'll just go and find > a piece of wall to hammer my head against :-) > > Antonio > > -- Michael Schneider email: ms@silke.rt.schwaben.de Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de People disagree with me. I just ignore them. (Linus Torvalds) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 17:19:47 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092654.00a256e0@www.mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <20011203231948.96192.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > Well there is only one size of Centronics SCSI connector, and its 50 pin. Technically speaking, there's only one size of "Centronics" connector and it's 36 pin. Old SCSI devices use an Amp "Ribbon" connector of 50 pins. I've also heard it called a "CHAMP" connector, but that might or might not be proper usage. > You probably have the multiport serial option card which is a smaller > (36) pin SCSI connector that connects to a cable that splits it out into > 4 serial ports. I have a MicroVAX-2000 with a DHT-32(?) option. It's a serial board inside the box with a 36-pin connector in the optional interface "skirt" that you need if you have an external RD-54 on the MicroVAX-2000. Is this serial option similar? Is it really 4 extra ports? The uVAX-2K option ends in a "harmonica" with 8 MMJ connectors. I take it the uVAX-3100 just has a custom cable? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com From optimus at canit.se Mon Dec 3 18:27:00 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF16@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <2289.738T0T874093optimus@canit.se> Christopher Smith skrev: >> Well when I first saw a PC ( clone that is ) , I thought >> "WOW A real keyboard, good display ( Upper / Lower Case ) >> and dual floppies all in one box". 512K ram max sounded >> like a lot of memory too. Compared to the 8 bit toy market >> at the time Z80's,C64's,Coco's that was a lot of power. >> From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] >> It was the small 16 bit addressing that killed the 8 bitters. >May have been unusual at the time. I doubt it was the first machine to have >any of that. A VAX-11/750 with a vt-100, for instance, would have had all >that less the dual-floppies and with a much higher maximum RAM limit ;) But who could by a VAX? And why one terminal only? The VAX wasn't a personal computer by any means. Not that just anyone could buy an IBM PC in '81, but chances were, your employer could. >Seriously, though, some older CP/M boxes also had real keyboards, decent >displays and dual floppies. (Some of which was optional, mind you... as were >_any_ floppies on the PC, AFAIK, in that you bought them separately :) Also >you could say that it was the first available 16-bit home computer >(depending on your definition of 16-bit), but you'd be wrong... (Quick >search says that several people believe this was the TI-99, actually, which >also had a real keyboard, and could have had the dual floppies) OTOH, the TI99's processor had the same addressing problems as the 8-bitters, 15-bit addressing with a 16-bit word orientation led to the same addressable space as the 6502 and Z80 micros. Arithmetically, the TI99 was a sixteen- bitter, but not in the common definition of sixteen bits used from the eighties and onwards. >Ultimately, the 32-bit systems were pretty close on its heels -- I have a >timeline that places the PC in '82, and the Apple Lisa in '83. I don't know >if this is correct... The PC was AFAIK released in '81. I wouldn't define the 68000 as a 32-bitter, only as a more elegant sixteen- bitter. >I have no idea how the peesee actually lasted as long as it has. There were >several 32-bit systems on the market by 1984 or so (though, my personal >favorite was done in '87 with the Acorn Archimedes). None were IBM, though, and none could be easily cloned. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Dec 3 19:11:43 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Microchannel ethernet NIC Message-ID: <57.2c50777.293d7ccf@aol.com> In a message dated 12/3/2001 3:49:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, csmith@amdocs.com writes: << Probably RJ45. It is for a friend's machine, though, so I'll have to check. I have gotten an offer of an RJ45 board via email, though, if that's the case. RE: looking for MCA NIC... why not look on ebay? always some listed there and cheap too. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 3 18:58:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Bubble sorts have their place (was: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 3, 1 03:23:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011204/6eaf6e0f/attachment.ksh From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Dec 3 19:39:39 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203193340.029331a8@127.0.0.1> I don't know of a formal (or informal....) classic computer user group in Houston, but I would love to participate in one. I know that there are several of us in Houston. I met with David and Mitch recently; very nice people. David has a real neat collection of older "personal" computers and some other Unix-class boxen as well. Obviously there are more of us, an informal gathering would be neat. - Matt >Now, to change the subject of this thread, does anyone know of any >"classic computer" user groups in the Houston area? > >-Toth Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Dec 3 20:15:31 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203193340.029331a8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <016c01c17c69$8dc087e0$1d731fd1@default> Keep me posted as I will be moving back to Houston at the end of this month. I will be driving down a full 24 footer if anyone would like to help unload it at the warehouse. It will take about 5 trips with the truck to get everything moved. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Sell" To: Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:39 PM Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} > > I don't know of a formal (or informal....) classic computer user group in > Houston, but I would love to participate in one. > > I know that there are several of us in Houston. I met with David and Mitch > recently; very nice people. David has a real neat collection of older > "personal" computers and some other Unix-class boxen as well. > > Obviously there are more of us, an informal gathering would be neat. > > > - Matt > > > > > > > >Now, to change the subject of this thread, does anyone know of any > >"classic computer" user groups in the Houston area? > > > >-Toth > > > > Matthew Sell > Programmer > On Time Support, Inc. > www.ontimesupport.com > (281) 296-6066 > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... > > From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon Dec 3 22:00:45 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203193340.029331a8@127.0.0.1> References: Message-ID: <3C0BF60D.1468.170B9A6@localhost> I too would be interested in getting together with other collectors in the Houston area. Always like to meet others in the area, visit or hit collecting spots. I know there are a few more on the list. Any others interested? David On 3 Dec 2001, at 19:39, Matthew Sell wrote: > > I don't know of a formal (or informal....) classic computer user group > in Houston, but I would love to participate in one. > > I know that there are several of us in Houston. I met with David and > Mitch recently; very nice people. David has a real neat collection of > older "personal" computers and some other Unix-class boxen as well. > > Obviously there are more of us, an informal gathering would be neat. > > > - Matt ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From msell at ontimesupport.com Mon Dec 3 22:03:57 2001 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} In-Reply-To: <016c01c17c69$8dc087e0$1d731fd1@default> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203193340.029331a8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203220338.025096b8@127.0.0.1> Lemme know if you need any help..... - Matt At 08:15 PM 12/3/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Keep me posted as I will be moving back to Houston at the end of this >month. I will be driving down a full 24 footer if anyone would like to >help unload it at the warehouse. It will take about 5 trips with the >truck to get everything moved. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Matthew Sell" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:39 PM >Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a >MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} > > > > > > I don't know of a formal (or informal....) classic computer user group >in > > Houston, but I would love to participate in one. > > > > I know that there are several of us in Houston. I met with David and >Mitch > > recently; very nice people. David has a real neat collection of older > > "personal" computers and some other Unix-class boxen as well. > > > > Obviously there are more of us, an informal gathering would be neat. > > > > > > - Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Now, to change the subject of this thread, does anyone know of any > > >"classic computer" user groups in the Houston area? > > > > > >-Toth > > > > > > > > Matthew Sell > > Programmer > > On Time Support, Inc. > > www.ontimesupport.com > > (281) 296-6066 > > > > Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! > > http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi > > > > > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad > > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > > > Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... > > > > Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 3 23:17:02 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Groups in Houston (and elsewhere) Message-ID: <20011204051903.ILCC29288.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Have any of you Houston folks looked around for similar groups in your area? A quick Google search of my (Orlando) area found an Apple II group and an IBM PC group, both of which hold monthly meetings. There are probably similar groups in your area where you might meet vintage computer people (other than those on this list). Glen 0/0 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 3 19:15:59 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: Matt London "RE: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop" (Dec 3, 20:21) References: Message-ID: <10112040115.ZM5978@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 20:21, Matt London wrote: > > No, that does not soud correct. > > The external SCSI-Connector (if you have one) on a MV3100 is a rather > > small, 68-PIN-HD-like connector, comparable to modern SCSI-III > > connectors. > Just my 2p's worth, but, my MV3100/m10e has a 50 pin centronics SCSI > connector - it's hooked into the scsi bus, I can see that by looking at it > - the cable connecting it has my 2nd internal HDD attached :&) As does mine, model no. DV31AT1A. > I also have the serial port option, which is a 37pin centronics. I think you mean 36-pin :-) > (Oh, what's the 50 pin HD-DB type connector? line-printer?) Good question :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 3 19:18:20 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: Douglas Quebbeman "More E-Bay Insanity?" (Dec 3, 15:38) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <10112040118.ZM5989@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 15:38, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 Wow, I wonder what my 8" ones are worth ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From optimus at canit.se Mon Dec 3 21:20:41 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF24@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <887.738T2050T2605655optimus@canit.se> Christopher Smith skrev: >... ok, I understand this perfectly (believe me!) but this is a head >cleaning kit, and anyone who's still got a 5.25" disk likely could take it >apart and clean the head without the kit. I don't really know what the head looks like, and I've got several 5?" drives. OTOH, even to this day, disk cleaning kits tend to come in packs with both 3?" and 5?" disks, so it doesn't really matter. Mind you, I really should get one of those in order to sort out my Amiga HD drive, the kind which rotates so slowly, it receives more dust than data. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. /// Iggy Drougge __/\__ /// optimus@canit.se \ ?. / \\\/// http://www.canit.se/~optimus/ /_o _\ \\X/ They told me to get a life. I got a computer instead. \/ From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 3 22:13:33 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? Message-ID: <20011204041534.IYSE27388.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Dave McGuire > Hmm...come to think of it, I have a genuine Radio Shack 5.25" head > cleaning kit...I think I'll put it up on eBay and see how I do! 8-) Shoot, man, I've got a case of the things (I'd never use one myself, of course). Wait, that means I'm rich! RICH! RICHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Glen 0/0 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 3 20:47:53 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? References: <20011204041534.IYSE27388.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3C0C3959.B2834581@jetnet.ab.ca> Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > From: Dave McGuire > > > Hmm...come to think of it, I have a genuine Radio Shack 5.25" head > > cleaning kit...I think I'll put it up on eBay and see how I do! 8-) > > Shoot, man, I've got a case of the things (I'd never use one myself, of > course). > > Wait, that means I'm rich! RICH! RICHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! > > Glen > 0/0 That is until you need to buy a 5.25" floppy disk off ebay! Poor Poor Poor !!! -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 3 19:27:16 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: Christopher Smith "RE: FLUKE?" (Dec 3, 15:09) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF1F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <10112040127.ZM5997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 15:09, Christopher Smith wrote: > "Let A[1:n] be an array of n numbers. > > ... > > Make repeated sweeps over the array A[1:n] from left to right. Upon > detecting any adjacent pair of numbers A[i] and A[i+1] not in proper order, > exchange them A[i] <-> A[i + 1]. When a pass is completed with no exchanges > having been made, the process terminates. Hmm, well, that's (almost) the worst example I've ever seen :-) You're supposed to stop one position shorter each time, because by the end of the sweep, the largest (or smallest, depending on which way you do the comparison-and-swap) number has fallen to the bottom (end) of the array. It makes a big difference to the time it takes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 3 19:36:28 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: FLUKE?" (Dec 3, 21:50) References: Message-ID: <10112040136.ZM6003@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 21:50, Tony Duell wrote: > 'Bubble Sort' has nothing to do with bubble memory. Bubble sort is a > well-known, very poor, sorting algorithm -- so poor that one book I have > contains the quote (from memory) 'If you know what a bubble sort is, wipe > it from your mind. If you don't, make a point of never finding out' :-) I don't know which book that was, but actually a bubble sort is one of the most efficient for things that are already nearly in order, or for small lists. Which is one reason it's used as part of some other algorithms. Definitely not for large random sets, however. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From fdebros at verizon.net Mon Dec 3 20:21:35 2001 From: fdebros at verizon.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: On Sun Mice and Mouse pads In-Reply-To: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021918@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> Message-ID: <001b01c17c6a$65d1f240$6501a8c0@fred> Ok, just for the record: Printing the mouse.ps file on plain white paper doesn't work with any type sun mouse So I printed it on transparent paper, turned it over (so you don't scrape off the print!) and put it on one of those dark shiny antistatic bags , and on an aluminum foil: It works. But only with my type 4 mice. RIP all you optical mice, and thanks for the suggestions. Fred From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 3 21:05:05 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: On Sun Mice and Mouse pads In-Reply-To: On Sun Mice and Mouse pads (Fred deBros) References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021918@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> <001b01c17c6a$65d1f240$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <15372.15713.54634.394978@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 3, Fred deBros wrote: > Ok, just for the record: > > Printing the mouse.ps file on plain white paper doesn't work with any > type sun mouse > So I printed it on transparent paper, turned it over (so you don't > scrape off the print!) and put it on one of those dark shiny antistatic > bags , and on an aluminum foil: It works. But only with my type 4 mice. > > RIP all you optical mice, and thanks for the suggestions. Hm, we must've used different paper. Or perhaps laser printers with different toner. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Dec 4 00:03:03 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: On Sun Mice and Mouse pads In-Reply-To: <15372.15713.54634.394978@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <556916EBC364D511826400508B9A1ADE021918@cmlpdc.corporatemicrosystems.com> <001b01c17c6a$65d1f240$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011203220235.035c0b90@mail.zipcon.net> Print it on glossy paper or on paper then put a transparent cover over it, then it might work for ya :) From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Dec 3 20:56:05 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Bubble sorts have their place (was: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20011203215605.019fd4d8@obregon.multi.net.co> At 12:58 AM 12/4/01 +0000, you wrote: >OK, I'll admit it. I've used a bubble sort -- I had a list of 5 items to >sort, no sort routine in the standard library, and run time was not that >important. A bubble sort seemed to make sense there. >So the original statement was a little strong, sure. But equally, I've >seen the bubble sort be used in far too many places where it was the >wrong choice... > >-tony I've used it just a few days ago, while ordering the row indexes of elements in each column of the incidence matrix of _very large_ networks. However, these networks are very sparsely connected, with usually just two connections per node, and the average number of connections per node is 2.3-2.6 . This means that in most cases a bubble sort will swap data at most once for each column. Definitely the best algorithm for the problem at hand. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 4 00:04:55 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Bubble sorts have their place (was: FLUKE? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > contains the quote (from memory) 'If you know what a bubble sort is, wipe > > > it from your mind. If you don't, make a point of never finding out' :-) > > Then that author is an idiot! > There are a few things that I disagree with in 'Numerical Recipies', but > I certainly wouldn't call the authors 'idiots'! OK, ANYBODY can say something idiotic. His comment about bubble sort, and mine about him were equally overly intense. > > 1) situations of N elements to be sorted, to be presented/displayed R at > > a time. > This may well be true, but I am not going to accept that there are no > other sorting algorithms with this property, at least not without a lot > of thought. I can't claim that none exist, (and some sort of selection based sort seems feasable), but I've never seen anything but variations of bubble sort that provide for being able to get intermediate results without waiting for completion of the entire sort. > > 2) taking advantage of existing order. A "better" sort, such as > Often in this sort of case you know the items that are out of order. > Either you're adding a few more items to the database, or you know that > some items have changes. And, assuming the database is some kind of > linked list (so that moving iterms around is simple -- just move the > pointers), it would seem to be simpler just to take those items you know > to be sorted and then to search for the right point to insert each new > item. How about a case where data is nominally in order, but human beings have had their hands on the data? Such as retrospective conversion of a library card catalog through automated scanning and OCR. It is ALMOST in order, but there are mistakes. > > Science profs typically are incapable of understanding that not all data > > to be sorted is completely random, and they base everything that they > Comparison of sorting algorithms generally includes (at least) the cases: > List in the right order ; List in reverse order ; One item out of order ; > Random order. That is certainly better than much of what I've seen in higher education. Note that cases 1 and 3 will favor a properly written bubble sort over "better" algorithms. > > The bubble sort, is also the EASIEST to implement for a beginning student > > (hopefully followed, within the hour, by other algorithms.) > I have never been a believer in teaching something because it's simple. > I've beem on the wrong end of problems caused by simplifying things too > far.... There are certainly many problems associated with over-simplification. OTOH, sometimes it can help a lot with understanding of concepts to reduce the number of variables, at least temporarily. > OK, I'll admit it. I've used a bubble sort -- I had a list of 5 items to > sort, no sort routine in the standard library, and run time was not that > important. A bubble sort seemed to make sense there. It IS easy to implement! > So the original statement was a little strong, sure. But equally, I've > seen the bubble sort be used in far too many places where it was the > wrong choice... I've seen both. I've seen "programmers" who insist on using "better" algorithms when a bubble sort would be the right choice. OB_e-bay_bashing: WHY does it take SO long for e-bay to display the first R items from a search? And I've seen bubble sorts used when they were inappropriate, or worse yet, a bubble sort going from left to right, when right to left was called for - that creates the worst case scenario that gives a bubble sort its bad reputation. The most important thing that I teach in "Data Structures and Algorithms" is that there are no "good" or "bad" algorithms; that what counts is selecting the most appropriate one for the specific situation. The best thing that I can say about my teaching is that a significant number of my students become better than I am. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From optimus at canit.se Mon Dec 3 21:04:42 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Microchannel ethernet NIC In-Reply-To: <57.2c50777.293d7ccf@aol.com> Message-ID: <272.738T2100T2445293optimus@canit.se> SUPRDAVE skrev: >why not look on ebay? always some listed there and cheap too. Or comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Oj! Den buggen har ju funnits s? l?nge jag kan minnas! Jag saknar den redan. Thomas Sundqvist / Co-Gasfisk #1006 p? Fabbes BBS From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 22:52:49 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: DEC PC04/PR8E Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011204045249.44565.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > Also I got a terrific looking pile of documenation and Volume 3 of the > hardware manuals is twice the size of the copy I already had. Yeah. There are several editions with different devices documented. I have a large Volume 3 and a small one, too. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 23:55:43 2001 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: HP ".fst" format Message-ID: <3C0C655F.7060105@yahoo.com> I scrounged a copy of the RTE OS for the hp21xx computers, but it is in some strage archive format with the extension ".fst" -- this is apparently much like tar, but my sun version of tar doesn't uunpack it well (to say the least :-)... Does anyone know of either a version of the archive program for this format that I could build on a UNIX box, or the format of the file so that I could unpack it? Thanks much, Bill McDermith From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 4 00:07:21 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203193340.029331a8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Matthew Sell wrote: > I don't know of a formal (or informal....) classic computer user group in > Houston, but I would love to participate in one. I looked at the HAL-PC http://www.hal-pc.org/ user group listing, and didn't see a classic computer group or anything similar listed. Anyone thought about starting a special interest group? > I know that there are several of us in Houston. I met with David and Mitch > recently; very nice people. David has a real neat collection of older > "personal" computers and some other Unix-class boxen as well. I only recently found the classic computer mailing list. I wish I had know it existed a long time ago. I've been collecting computer stuff for the last 10 to 12 years or so. > Obviously there are more of us, an informal gathering would be neat. That could indeed be fun. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 4 00:14:20 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} In-Reply-To: <3C0BF60D.1468.170B9A6@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, David Williams wrote: > I too would be interested in getting together with other collectors in > the Houston area. Always like to meet others in the area, visit or > hit collecting spots. I know there are a few more on the list. Any > others interested? I've got a few favorite collecting spots I'd be willing to share. Sadly, some of my former favorites seem to have very few old computers show up anymore. -Toth From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Dec 4 00:22:00 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <15371.60893.575395.228687@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <009801c17c8b$fbab7220$f136cd18@Smith.earthlink.net> > On December 3, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 > > > > This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... > > Value is in the eye of the beholder, man. Why is it automatically > "insane" when someone else views omething as being more valuable than > we do? > It's not automatic; it's insane because other K-2s regularly go begging on eBay for 1/10th the price. In fact, last week a nice one didn't sell at an opening bid of $1 with no reserve + $28 fixed shipping. As many on the list know, if you wait long enough you'll probably, eventually, get what you want at the price you want (particularly when it's listed in the wrong category). It's impatience that can drives prices into the stratosphere. -W From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 4 00:24:56 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} In-Reply-To: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} (Matthew Sell) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203193340.029331a8@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <15372.27704.224934.823386@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 3, Matthew Sell wrote: > I don't know of a formal (or informal....) classic computer user group in > Houston, but I would love to participate in one. > > I know that there are several of us in Houston. I met with David and Mitch > recently; very nice people. David has a real neat collection of older > "personal" computers and some other Unix-class boxen as well. > > Obviously there are more of us, an informal gathering would be neat. I'm interested in a similar thing in the Tampa Bay area, if there's anyone around... -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From west at tseinc.com Mon Dec 3 22:06:02 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: IMPORTANT NOTE (list admin) Message-ID: <000d01c17c78$fdeef420$0101a8c0@jay> The classiccmp mailing list, as well as all the classiccmp related websites that I'm hosting at no charge, must be moved IMMEDIATELY to another set of servers at another location. Due to possible legal contractual reasons, I can't publicly go into more detail. If you need further information about this just contact me off list and I'll see if I can be more specific. PLEASE keep the following points in mind: 1) PLEASE do not continue (reply to) this thread on the list, I'd rather not have a bunch of messages in the archives about this topic. If you want to say anything about this, only reply to me at west@tseinc.com 2) I have resigned from the company that I worked for, and am no longer an owner there. The only valid email address for me is west@tseinc.com and to anyone who had my cellphone number, I now have a different number. Contact me via email if you need it. 3) Anyone who had my USmail mailing address for shipping stuff to with a zip code of 63117, please dont send anything there as there's no way to be sure I will ever get the package. Contact me off list for new mailing info. 4) I will continue to have the classiccmp website as well as all the free classiccmp related websites hosted at no charge. My offer of free hosting for any such websites or mailing lists still stands. Nothing will change, only the servers the sites are located on. The new location where the sites will be hosted is every bit as robust and well managed as the old location. 5) I took extreme pride in our uptime and reliability. You can assume the same will continue with the new hosting location (wink wink). However, as much as it truely pains me to do so, the sites and list must be moved in a very unplanned, hurried, unceremonious fashion. It is certain that there will be some downtime for the mailing list, as well as some of the free sites, WHILE they are being moved - lasting possibly 48 hours. I sincerely apologize for this, but the situation forces me to do this in an abrupt manner without planning for DNS propagation and the like. My sincere apologies. 6) As I said, the offer of free hosting still stands now and in the future. If anyone has any classiccmp related sites or mailing lists they want hosted, just drop me an email. Regards, Jay West From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 4 02:11:14 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092229.00a49d50@www.mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <3C0C8522.186EF01@verizon.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > I'm in Sunnyvale, and would part with one. > --Chuck Are these free? Ian From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 4 03:19:22 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? In-Reply-To: <3C0C8522.186EF01@verizon.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092229.00a49d50@www.mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20011204011651.024dfad0@209.185.79.193> In general I prefer trading for something, but if that doesn't work out and a machine is surplus to my needs then yes, its free. Caveat, for big machines you'd have to come get it. I'm just about ready to stop mailing larger stuff because I can't get the time to get it packed and shipped for what I'd consider a reasonable amount. I've got a Link MC70 color graphics terminal, also "free" (if you're willing to come get it) and I've even got the manual somewhere. --Chuck At 03:11 AM 12/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >Chuck McManis wrote: > > I'm in Sunnyvale, and would part with one. > > --Chuck > > >Are these free? > > > Ian From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 4 00:04:27 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:36 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092229.00a49d50@www.mcmanis.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20011204011651.024dfad0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <3C0C676B.26B0D30@jetnet.ab.ca> Chuck McManis wrote: > > In general I prefer trading for something, but if that doesn't work out and > a machine is surplus to my needs then yes, its free. Caveat, for big > machines you'd have to come get it. I'm just about ready to stop mailing > larger stuff because I can't get the time to get it packed and shipped for > what I'd consider a reasonable amount. > > I've got a Link MC70 color graphics terminal, also "free" (if you're > willing to come get it) and I've even got the manual somewhere. Just curious, what is the non-free price for the terminal? Since I live in the 'Great White North' I don't expect shipping to be cheap. Around mid February I would like to get a clean used 'Dumb Terminal' for a 6089 style computer I an building. January I spend all my $$$ for parts and PCB. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html -- PS. It is not the shipping, but getting thru customs is the problem. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 4 11:49:52 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? In-Reply-To: <3C0C676B.26B0D30@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092229.00a49d50@www.mcmanis.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20011204011651.024dfad0@209.185.79.193> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204094633.00a3e700@www.mcmanis.com> At 11:04 PM 12/3/01 -0700, you wrote: >Just curious, what is the non-free price for the terminal? >Since I live in the 'Great White North' I don't expect shipping >to be cheap. Around mid February I would like to get a clean used >'Dumb Terminal' for a 6089 style computer I an building. January >I spend all my $$$ for parts and PCB. >Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- >www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html That's the problem Ben, I'm happy to take it to the local pack and ship place and say "Make this go from here to there via UPS Ground." but depending on the weight, the item (fragile/not fragile/big/not big) the price varies tremendously. From reasonable $11 - $15 to outrageous $50 - $75. Now I trust this guy who does the packing, he's great but I get into a situation where off it goes and now I've got to send you a bill that perhaps isn't worth it to you to pay. That's the risk that I deal with. --Chuck From spedraja at ono.com Tue Dec 4 02:12:44 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: 3com 1625-0 Message-ID: <012701c17c9b$7419af60$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Hello: >> My guess would be that the mini-scsi connectors aren't scsi but in fact >> some type of cascading connection. So that multiple hubs can act as a >> single hub. > >Correct, they link the hub to a managed hub. You need a hub with the >management module installed, though. > >I'm not sure if it'll do anything without the managed hub, but I guess I >could look in my docs to find out for sure. I'll agree it, sincerely. My doubts are, mainly: * Can I connect the hub directly to 220 volts AC ? It appears possible if I've read correctly the AC connector info. * How must I connect the RG58 cables ? Must I put a Ethetnet 'T' with a terminator in the computer BNC connector or not ? * Finally, the link connectors and you suggestion about the link to one managed hub. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 4 03:14:41 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? References: Message-ID: <3C0C9401.A63171BF@verizon.net> Rich Beaudry wrote: > Why is it that anytime anyone asks: "Does anyone in my small > geographical area have a 'foo' they want to get rid of?" there > is invariably a slew of "I have one, but don't want to get rid > of it" or "I have one I want to get rid of, but not in your area, > and not willing to ship" messages? I'll tell you exactly why it is. It's because no one wants to pay any one very much for anything. "I have one, but don't want to get rid of it" If offered enough for it, more of them would be willing to part with it. "I have one I want to get rid of, but not in your area, and not willing to ship" It involves work, the expenditure of time and effort, to ship things. Since general list attitude seems to make it popular to complain about the costs to ship, and no one wants to pay much for anything, some people just don't want to bother with it. Personally, the stuff I don't want anymore, I just throw away. Just tossed out a pile of Macintosh and Sun keyboards. Perhaps the people that have the "foo" and respond in the manner that irks you so, are subconsiencely (sp?) making a statement. Ian "They got two good eyes, but they still can't see ..." > > > > Why is it that anytime anyone asks: "Does anyone in my small geographical > area have a 'foo' they want to get rid of?" there is invariably a slew of "I > have one, but don't want to get rid of it" or "I have one I want to get rid > of, but not in your area, and not willing to ship" messages? > > If you're not in the area, or you don't want to get rid of it, why reply? > > I mean it's gotta be annoying to the original poster to hear of others in > the area, with the "foo" he needs, but who don't want to get rid of it. > It's not bad that they have the "foo", but it seems like the reply is > rubbing his face in it.... > > > > Rich B. From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 4 03:22:02 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: On Sun Mice and Mouse pads References: <001b01c17c6a$65d1f240$6501a8c0@fred> Message-ID: <3C0C95BA.F0D462A3@verizon.net> Wow, I have several extra Sun Optical mouse pad "foos", but I don't particularly want to part with any of them, and don't especially want to go through the hassle ( probably about an hour's total worth of time ) to ship over something worth so little. Damn, what a bitch. See what I mean? Ian Fred deBros wrote: > > Ok, just for the record: > > Printing the mouse.ps file on plain white paper doesn't work with any > type sun mouse > So I printed it on transparent paper, turned it over (so you don't > scrape off the print!) and put it on one of those dark shiny antistatic > bags , and on an aluminum foil: It works. But only with my type 4 mice. > > RIP all you optical mice, and thanks for the suggestions. > > Fred From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Dec 4 02:39:45 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066277@exc-reo1> > pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > >> (Oh, what's the 50 pin HD-DB type connector? line-printer?) > >Good question :-) After my earlier miscounting I'd better check carefully :-0 but if this is labelled B1 (and there is another one labelled B2 on *some* MicroVAX 3100 Model 20s) and it is three rows of pins ... then it is a synchronous communications connector. The same connector was used on several other synch comms options (DEMSA, DECnis, DSV11, DSB32, DMB32 and DSF32). The interface presented (X.21, V.35, RS422, RS423) was determined by the stub cable you plugged in. Antonio From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 4 02:43:16 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A12@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <15371.60893.575395.228687@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C0C8CA4.2124D3A@verizon.net> Well said Dave! Ian Dave McGuire wrote: > Value is in the eye of the beholder, man. Why is it automatically > "insane" when someone else views omething as being more valuable than > we do? > > The resale value of the stuff we hack on is going up, and we have to > learn to deal with it. It has been for some time. People are buying > it at these prices, and it's not just one or two people. Let them > spend their money...if they're happy with their purchase, what's wrong > with it? > > Further, one mustn't lose sight of the fact that different things > are more readily available in different geographic areas than in > others. Just because there are fifty AppleIIs at the corner yard sale > in your neighborhood doesn't mean there are fifty of them at EVERY > corner yard sale. > > As a case in point...I'm no newcomer to this field; I've been doing > pdp8/pdp11/vax stuff for a solid fifteen years. My first real system > was a pdp11/34 which I sold about ten years ago, and have regretted it > every since. I've wanted another one for several years, and had been > looking for one in earnest in the Washington DC area for a solid three > years...never managed to get one, and believe me, I know where to > look. I finally bought one locally for about $400, indirectly from a > surplus dealer who was sharking on the "antique computer craze" trying > to make a ton of money on it. I'm sure he got it for free, and he > laughed all the way to the bank. However, I'm VERY happy to have it, > and I love the machine. If I hadn't paid that $400, I wouldn't have > one. They're simply unobtainium in the DC area. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 4 02:56:16 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? References: Message-ID: <3C0C8FB0.85025608@verizon.net> Gene Buckle wrote: > Methinks the seller is a complete frigging idiot and needs to be > informed of this fact. Well, you can see from their low feedback that they are relatively new, and limited in experience. Perhaps they are just "fishing"? And you never know. They may be in dire financial straits, and in desperation, be trying anything they can, to survive. I don't so quickly pass judgement on others, but make note of others that do. > > I'll sell him a q-tip on a stick and a bottle of rubbing alcohol for $45. > > g. > > On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 > > > > This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... > > > > -dq > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 4 07:04:57 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A15@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 3, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Have 5.25 inch floppy drive cleaning kits > > become unobtainium, or only for the clueless: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1305651479 > > > > This is up there with the $500 Kaypro... > > Value is in the eye of the beholder, man. Why is it automatically > "insane" when someone else views omething as being more valuable than > we do? Dave- My subject line included a question mark; I wasn't making a declaration, I was posing a query... Radio Shack sold these cleaning kits for years for, what, $5.95? Now, and I don't know, perhaps RS doesn't sell them anymore. I don't have a Jameco catalog handy to check, though I could look at a Global catalog... at any rate, I'm wondering whether this might have been a typo that the seller didn't catch... -dq From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Dec 4 08:43:50 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? Message-ID: Yes, but this one's being sold as "unopened." The seller thinks it has value to (or that he can make a bundle from) a _collector_ rather than a _user_. If anyone buys it, I doubt that they will ever open the package. It is madness, but (as has been said many times before) the value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it. -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:12 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: More E-Bay Insanity? ... ok, I understand this perfectly (believe me!) but this is a head cleaning kit, and anyone who's still got a 5.25" disk likely could take it apart and clean the head without the kit. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From kentborg at borg.org Tue Dec 4 07:27:25 2001 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Scrapping hardware to get it off the books (RE: Is it a Lisa or Mac XL?!) In-Reply-To: ; from mythtech@Mac.com on Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 03:14:35PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20011204082725.A1649@borg.org> > Is there some law against selling the stuff in working condition? Probably not, just as there are probably no laws against keeping a dog in your appartment. But that doesn't mean there can't be a binding agreement that has significant legal weight. Your lease might say "no pets", and the scrapping agreement might say "no resale in working condition". And the law says such agreements are enforcable. The law does explicitly prohibit some agreements (slavery, opium futures, minors signing any contracts), but competent adults are allowed to agree to anything which isn't specifically prohibited. The welfare of children has legal protection, the welfare of old computer hardware does not. -kb From kentborg at borg.org Tue Dec 4 08:56:17 2001 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question In-Reply-To: ; from mtapley@swri.edu on Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 03:43:26PM -0600 References: <200111291841.MAA86990@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20011204095617.B1649@borg.org> On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 03:43:26PM -0600, Mark Tapley wrote: > Mac 128k > GUI OS for the masses, origin of "friendly" computers > (first computer to *smile* at me). If you want origins of GUI, maybe you want a Xerox Star or maybe Apple Lisa. If you want something more mainstream I think the Macintosh Plus is more appropriate. Allowing 4 MB of RAM, an 800 KB floppy, and most importantly, a SCSI port. A Mac Plus with a hard disk was actually a very useful machine. A 128 K Mac was mostly promise and expensive dreams. I guess it depends upon what you want in the museum. Do you want something that is in some way typical or failures that showed the first glimmer? > Newton > PDA origin. I was a Newton user for two models. But you might consider the first Palm Pilot instead. I didn't get a Palm until the wireless Palm VII, but the original was a sweet machine that hit its target dead on. Other than wireless (which is under appreciated) I am not sure any of the later Palm models are more than incremental additions to the original. > NeXT Cube (original) > OO system, sizeable leap in developer environment quality Steve already got his Macintosh on the list. You already have a personal-sized Unix machine on the list. I don't think the nExT gets in. And the DEC Rainbow seems not worthy. DEC already gets two entries on your list with successful computers. The Rainbow was part of the fall of the company. The Alpha is also too obscure for such a small museum. Especially now that we see it dying. I am not sure what else should go off the list (some I don't know about and maybe should), but having dumped three, I think the following need to be added: - Altair. Too much hinged on the Altair to leave it out, including Bill's first product, a BASIC interpreter. Hook up a Lear Sieger ADM-1 (?) terminal and that hand pulled optical papertape reader I used to drool over. - Apple II. A breakthrough computer that made a real splash with both hackers and lots of real people, a splash that lasted for years. Extraordinarily influential computer. - IBM XT The original PC made micros respectable (and gave them a new name) but the XT was nearly the same and with its hard disk is representative of much of what we use today. Some early model PC is needed to represent the beginning of the explosion that is just now cooling. The little Vaio on your list is a nice entry to catch the other end. (I nominate the model I am typing on now, a Z505LE.) - HP Calculator Donno what model, probably their best selling programmable. I sadly don't include an early Macintosh Powerbook or TRS-80 Model 1. The Model 1, though important, is a too much of a side road. The Powerbook is covered by the early Macintosh and the Vaio. I also don't include an early Compaq; the Vaio is also the clone representative. And attach an ASR-33 to the PDP. -kb, the Kent who never got an ASR-33. From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Dec 4 09:53:43 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF27@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Iggy Drougge [mailto:optimus@canit.se] > But who could by a VAX? And why one terminal only? The VAX > wasn't a personal > computer by any means. > Not that just anyone could buy an IBM PC in '81, but chances > were, your > employer could. Well, depending on your employer they might afford a VAX too. I used one terminal as an example of a way to give your VAX a nice keyboard and display. I didn't mean it to be an exhaustive configuration. > OTOH, the TI99's processor had the same addressing problems > as the 8-bitters, > 15-bit addressing with a 16-bit word orientation led to the > same addressable > space as the 6502 and Z80 micros. Arithmetically, the TI99 > was a sixteen- > bitter, but not in the common definition of sixteen bits used from the > eighties and onwards. AFAIR the 8088 was also very "8-bit" :) I suppose it's all in the marketing, though. > The PC was AFAIK released in '81. > I wouldn't define the 68000 as a 32-bitter, only as a more > elegant sixteen- > bitter. Well, we certainly agree on the "more elegant" part. ;) > >several 32-bit systems on the market by 1984 or so (though, > my personal > >favorite was done in '87 with the Acorn Archimedes). > None were IBM, though, and none could be easily cloned. Well, no, none were IBM. (Honestly, IBM has only done a few things I like -- all of them being more expensive than I could ever hope to afford new. :) As for being easily cloned, I suppose you mean that Compaq must have already done the reverse engineering work? ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Dec 4 09:57:22 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: FLUKE? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF28@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > You're supposed to stop one position shorter each time, > because by the end > of the sweep, the largest (or smallest, depending on which > way you do the > comparison-and-swap) number has fallen to the bottom (end) of > the array. > It makes a big difference to the time it takes. You're right. It would. Wirth had a better example in one of his books, but I didn't want to type it all in. ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Dec 4 10:02:15 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers was {Off-Topic: Re: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available?} Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF29@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] > I too would be interested in getting together with other > collectors in > the Houston area. Always like to meet others in the area, visit or > hit collecting spots. I know there are a few more on the list. Any > others interested? Houston's starting to sound like a cool place to live ;) In all seriousness, though, maybe local user groups or something more loosely knit are a good idea. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Dec 4 11:37:51 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF29@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <3C0CB58F.29326.7B75A2@localhost> On 4 Dec 2001, at 10:02, Christopher Smith wrote: > Houston's starting to sound like a cool place to live ;) Well I've lived in worse. ;) > In all seriousness, though, maybe local user groups or something more > loosely knit are a good idea. There are a couple of Apple II people that sometimes show up at the HAAUG meetings but those are mostly all Mac meetings. The other groups in the area, HAL-PC is the other big one, are all based around current systems. If we want a group in Houston I suspect it will be up to us classiccmp people to make one. Not sure there are enough of us yet. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Dec 4 10:17:51 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Bubble sorts have their place (was: FLUKE? Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF2A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > And I've seen bubble sorts used when they were inappropriate, or worse > yet, a bubble sort going from left to right, when right to > left was called > for - that creates the worst case scenario that gives a > bubble sort its > bad reputation. Back to the description of the bubble sort that Wirth had in his book (the book is "algorighms + data structures = programs," for the curious), he suggests modifications to a bubble sort: Always remember the position of the last switch that you've made. You can start/end here next time. (A similar thing was mentioned in a previous mail by somebody) Alternate the order of the sort going right-to-left one pass and left-to-right the next. That takes advantage of the fact that a number that's incredibly far out of place will tend to move further if you're sorting towards its proper place. (In other words, it's as you say, but assuming that we don't know the order of the data, so the sort can be generic and still be more efficient) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Dec 4 10:17:43 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E bulbs In-Reply-To: <15371.7798.224477.85707@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <15371.7798.224477.85707@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011204101743.H3743@mrbill.net> On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 01:40:54AM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > I thought all 8/M systems had LED front panels. At least every one > I've seen has. > Not sure where to find replacements. Newark Electronics has a nice > (but expensive) selection of lamps. Also you might want to try Gilway > Technical Lamp...if you can't find them online, let me know and I'll > dig up a catalog. > -Dave I have a bunch of what I would best describe as "grain of wheat" tiny lamps from a DEC collection I recently acquired; but I dont know what system/part they're for. Bunch of em in a little blue piece of foam in a box.. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 07:32:57 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: VERY LONG: Latest S-100 Haul Message-ID: Hello all, Thanks to a VERY generous man, located about an hour's drive from me, I have a boatload of CompuPro S-100 stuff, 8" floppy drives, manuals, software, etc. The list is long, and I debated posting it here, or linking to a web page. In the end, I decided to post it here because I wanted it to be in the archives in case anyone was looking for any of this stuff. I am more than willing to copy floppies or manuals, no charge but postage (and you supply the 8" media, as I am VERY short of blanks). The only caveat is that it may take me a long time to do it, mainly becuase I'm not very organized :-) Before the list, there were also two Osborne 1 computers, one with a dead internal monitor (but works from external monitor), and one fully functional, with the double-density upgrade. Also, manuals and full sets of original disks for each. Without further ado, here's the list: CompuPro chassis, 21-slot motherboard - 1 Full CompuPro RAM22 board - 1 Full CompuPro RAM22 board - 1 Full CompuPro RAM21 board - 1 Full CompuPro RAM16 board - 1 Full CompuPro RAM17 board - 1 Macrotech Dual Processor board -- 80286 and Z80H - 1 CompuPro System Support 1 - 1 CompuPro DISK3 Hard Drive controller - 1 CompuPro Interfacer 4 - 1 CompuPro DISK1A Floppy Drive Controller CompuPro System 8/16 Chassis, 20-slot motherboard - 1 Full CompuPro RAM22 board - 1 CompuPro MDRIVE/H 512K/2 MEG disk emulator board - 1 CompuPro CPU68K board - 1 CompuPro System Support 1 board - 1 CompuPro Interfacer 4 board - 1 CompuPro DISK1 Floppy Controller Board Three dual 8" drive units (one CompuPro, two no-name) -- The CompuPro unit has two QumeTrak drives (242, I think -- full height 8"), one of the no-names has two Shugart 801 drives (single-sided only, I think), and the other no-name also has two QumeTrak drives. Unfortunately, the power supply in the no-name QumeTrak drive box literally had an LM723CN explode, breaking the chip in half, melting the socket, and fusing two pins to the socket. Cheap enough for a new chip, but time to put in a new socket, and figure out if something else has gone bad... One dual 5.25" floppy and 5.25" 40MB hard drive unit Additional S-100 cards: - Mullen Computer Products bus tracer board - CompuPro Interfacer 4 w/cable - Solid State Music PB1 2708/2716 EPROM Programmer - CompuPro DISK1 Floppy Controller - Jade Double D Floppy Disk Controller - Quantronics MM8 8K memory board, 64 2102 chips - Performics 256KB RAM card - CompuPro CPU-Z - Jade JG-Z80 Rev. C CPU board (Z80A) - Qty. 2 CompuPro CPU 8085/88 - Ackerman Digital Systems PROMBlaster II - Franklin Electric I/O Interface - Vector Electronics Interfacer II - Jade Parallel Serial I/O Board - Data Technology Corporation DTC 10-1 - Tarbell Cassette Interface, Rev. D Model 1001 - CompuPro System Support I - CompuPro RAM17 - ExpandoRAM Rev. E Original Software, 8" Floppies - CompuPro CP/M 8-16, version 1.1R - CompuPro CDOS 8-16, 4.1D-2, also labelled by CCT, version 2.0b - CompuPro DR Net, version 1.1A - CompuPro AMCALL/TIP Master, version 2.68/2.40 - CompuPro CP/M-80, version 2.2N - CompuPro CP/M-80, version 2.2LD - CompuPro CP/M-80, MDRIVE System Master, version 2.2LM - CompuPro CP/M-86, version 1.1PA - Jade CP/M version 2.2, for Double D controller card - CP/M-68K, version 1.0, labelled by Westico Software Express Service - SuperSoft C compiler (no version, copyright 1981) - CompuPro Assembler and tools 86 version 1.0 - CompuPro CP/M-68K version 1.1 - Digital Research C compiler for CP/M-86, version 1.11 - Term 3 by Echelon - Z-COM by Echelon - Discat by Echelon - PKey and I/O Recorder by Echelon - B/Printer by Echelon 20-30 Blank 8" media, some 1-sided, some 2-sided Manuals (* = original, no * = photocopy) - Code Works Small C for CP/M version n, April 1, 1981 * - BDS C version 1.4 - Jade Double D Software Manual - IMSAI 8080 Self-Contained System Operating System -- User manual and source code listings - Processor Technology Software Package #1 source listing - Qty. 3 CompuPro Interfacer 4 * (w/ schematic) - Digital Research CP/M 2 docs * - BDS C Version 1.5 * - ADS Promblaster II / Promwriter 4.0 * (w/ schematic) - CompuPro CP/M 68K Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - Qty. 3 CompuPro RAM22 Technical Manual (w/ schematic) * - CompuPro System Enclosure and Motherboards Technical Manual * (w/ stickers and schematics) - Qty. 2 CompuPro DISK1 Technical Manual w/ schematics * - Qty. 2 CompuPro System Support 1 User Manual * (w/ schematics) - ViaSyn MDrive/H Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CCT Brochures, Price Lists - 4 issues of C-Pro newsletter, volume 2, issues 1-4, 1985 * - Tarbell BASIC I/O System - cassette version, version 12.12 listing - Tarbell Cassette BASIC, version 12.14 listing - CompuPro System 816A Standard Switch Settings and Cable Connections - CompuPro CP/M-80 2.2 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures - Digital Research CP/M-86 Release Notes, version 1.1 * - CompuPro System Support 1 Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro CPU-Z User Manual * (w/ schematics) - Qty. 2 ViaSyn/CompuPro CPU 8085/88 Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - Qty. 2 CompuPro RAM17 Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro DISK1A Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro System 8/16 Enclosure and Motherboards Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro Concurrent DOS 8-16 Installation and Customization Guide * (marked "Advance Copy") - CCT Concurrent DOS 8-16 CMX XIOS User Guide * - Macrotech MI-286 Dual Processor (80286/Z80H) Reference Manual * (w/ schematics) - Vector Electronic Interfacer II Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro FORTH Technical Manual * - Performics SRAM 128/258 User's Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro CPU-68K Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro RAM16 Technical Manual * (w/schematics) - CompuPro RAM21 Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - Franklin Electric I/O Serial Parallel Assembly and Test Instructions * - Data Technology Corp. DTC-10-1 Preliminary Specification (w/ schematics) - CompuPro CP/M 80 2.2 Hard Disk Installation Guide * - CompuPro MDrive Installation Manual * - CompuPro CP/M 8-16 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - CompuPro CP/M-86 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - QumeTrak 842 8" Floppy Maintenance Manual - Jade Double D Floppy Controller Manual * (w/ schematics) - Qume DataTrack 8 Maintenance Manual - Shugart 800/801 OEM Manual - PSS Model MM8 8K RAM System Manual - Solid State Music PB1 EPROM Programmer Board * (w/ schematcs) - SD Systems ExpandoRAM Operations Manual * (w/ schematics) - Tarbell Cassette Interface (w/ schematics) - Mullen Computer Products TB4 * (w/ schematics) S-100 test/probe board - Jade Serial Parallel Interrupt Controller * (w/ schematics) - Jade "The Big Z" (Z80 CPU board) * (w/ schematcs + monitor) - CompuPro TMXBIOS listings * - CompuPro DISK3 (ST506) Technical Manual * (w/ schematics) - CompuPro AMCALL and MCALL-II (comm prog.) Operations Manual * - CompuPro AMCALL and AMCALLN (supplement to above) * - Qty. 2 CompuPro CP/M 2.2 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - Qty. 2 CompuPro CP/M-86 Technical Manual and Installation Procedures * - Soroc IQ120 terminal Specifications and Operating Procedures * - Digital Research/CompuPro CP/M 2.2 User Reference Manual * (1 from 1982, 1 from 1978) - Qty. 2 Digital Research CP/M-86 System Guide * - Qty. 2 Digital Research CP/M-86 User's Guide * - Qty. 2 Digital Research CP/M-86 Programmer's Guide * - CompuPro Concurrent DOS 8-16 User's Guide * - Digital Research Concurrent CP/M User's Guide * - Digital Research Concurrent CP/M System Guide * - Digital Research Concurrent CP/M Programmer's Reference Guide * - Digital Research Concurrent CP/M-86 Programmer's Utilities Guide * - Lattice C Compiler v2.15A For 8086/8088 * - Digital Research DR Assembler Plus Tools for CP/M-86 * - Digital Research C Language for CP/M-86 * - Digital Research CBASIC Compiler for CP/M-68K * - Digital Research CP/M-68K User/System/Programmer Guides * - Digital Research C Compiler guide for CP/M-68K * - Supersoft Version 1.2 C Compiler for CP/M-80 * - DBase II User Manual - DBase II Reference - Microshell 1.2 User Manual - CP/M 2.2 Patches and Application notes from Digital Research - PC-Pro User's Guide - Wordstar 3.0 Customization Notes - Wordstar 3.0 General Information Manual - Wordstar 3.0 Installation Manual - Wordstar 3.0 Reference - Supersort 1.6 Operator's Handbook and Programmer's Guide - Datastar 1.1 User's Guide - CBASIC Version 2 Language Manual - The Zapple Monitor Version 1.1 - Word-Master 1.07 User Manual - SpellGuard User Manual - MAC -- Cal Poly Macro Assembler Manual * - Tarbell BASIC Manual - Calcstar 1.0 User's Manual - BSTAM Version 4.6 User Manual - CB-80 Languare Release Notes, and Reference Manual - Cal Poly/Link-80/RMAC/Library User's Guide - SID User's Guide - Microsoft MBASIC Compiler User's Manual - Microsoft BASIC-80 Reference Manual - Microsoft Utility Software User Manual (MACRO-80/LINK-80/CREF-80/LIB-80) - Island Cybernetics Information Retreival System v2.07 User's Manual - CP/M 3.0 System/Programmer/User Guides - CP/NET User's Guide - MP/M-II System/User/Programmer Guide Non-Original Disks (all 8", mixed 1S/2S, mixed densities) - Concurrent DOS 3.1D - Concurrent DOS 4.1D - CompuPro CP/M 8-16 Implementation Files - CompuPro CP/M 2.2N - Godbout CP/M 8-16 1.1PD - CompuPro CP/M 8-16 1.1R - MP/M-II 2.1 - MP/M-II 8-16 - MP/M Gen - BDS C 1.46 - Datastar - Wordstar - Spellguard - Wizard C 2.1D - Aztec C 3.2 - Lattice C 2.15 - DRI Assembler/Tools for CP/M-86 - 68K Cross-assembler - CB80 1.3 - CBASIC 2.38 - Fortran 80 - Turbo Pascal for CP/M-86 - SuperSort - DBase II - Selector III - Datastar 1.4 - IRS Infomaster - BSTAM (telecomm program) - BDS C 1.45 - Word-Master - Random House Thesaurus - Wordstar-86 - Small C 1.1 - Calcstar 1.2 - Microsoft BASIC v.4.5, 4.51, 5.1, 5.2 - CP/NET Version 1.0 Whew! That's all folks.... Rich B. From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Dec 4 08:21:23 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: VERY LONG: Latest S-100 Haul Message-ID: >Thanks to a VERY generous man, located about an hour's drive from me, I have >a boatload of CompuPro S-100 stuff, 8" floppy drives, manuals, software, >etc. YIKES Batman... Nice score! -chris From spedraja at ono.com Tue Dec 4 09:23:31 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: VERY LONG: Latest S-100 Haul Message-ID: <008501c17cd7$a22dadc0$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> >Hello all, Hi ! >Thanks to a VERY generous man, located about an hour's drive from me, I have >a boatload of CompuPro S-100 stuff, 8" floppy drives, manuals, software, Very generous, I must say :-) >I am more than willing to copy floppies or manuals, no charge but postage (and you >supply the 8" media, as I am VERY short of blanks). The only caveat is that >it may take me a long time to do it, mainly becuase I'm not very organized >:-) I'm interested in the specific Digital Research Products documentation (and software, but less over this). It's possible I begin to manipulate the MP/M adn CP/NET sources to put it to work under Yaze. I must say you that I'd love to see all this manuals scanned and put together in some place dedicated to the CP/M stuff. If you can do it in a future then you're the better deposit. If you can't do it and can send it to me or another one who could scan it, it can be good too. Thanks and Greetings Sergio From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 4 09:50:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: VERY LONG: Latest S-100 Haul References: <008501c17cd7$a22dadc0$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> Message-ID: <001201c17cdb$5bee23e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Much of this source code is available through the various mirrors of the late Tim Olmstead's unofficial CP/M web site. Perhaps that will be of help to you. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "SP" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:23 AM Subject: RE: VERY LONG: Latest S-100 Haul > > >Hello all, > > > Hi ! > > >Thanks to a VERY generous man, located about an hour's drive from me, I > have > >a boatload of CompuPro S-100 stuff, 8" floppy drives, manuals, software, > > Very generous, I must say :-) > > >I am more than willing to copy floppies or manuals, no charge but postage > (and you > >supply the 8" media, as I am VERY short of blanks). The only caveat is > that > >it may take me a long time to do it, mainly becuase I'm not very organized > >:-) > > > I'm interested in the specific Digital Research Products documentation > (and software, but less over this). It's possible I begin to manipulate the > MP/M adn CP/NET sources to put it to work under Yaze. > > I must say you that I'd love to see all this manuals scanned and put > together in some place dedicated to the CP/M stuff. If you can do it > in a future then you're the better deposit. If you can't do it and can > send it to me or another one who could scan it, it can be good too. > > Thanks and Greetings > > Sergio > > > > From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Dec 4 09:10:07 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20011204100510.02c79db8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with TU56, RK05, high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 was evidently not enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and front panel" with about three days to go. Kind of a bummer. -- Tony From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 4 09:33:03 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay In-Reply-To: Parting out on eBay (Tony Eros) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20011204100510.02c79db8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <15372.60591.974573.476351@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 4, Tony Eros wrote: > Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with TU56, RK05, > high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 was evidently not > enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's > currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and front panel" with > about three days to go. > > Kind of a bummer. Lynch mob time. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From ip500 at home.com Tue Dec 4 10:20:40 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay References: <5.0.2.1.0.20011204100510.02c79db8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <3C0CF7D8.B513D88E@home.com> Quite the contrary .. by splitting this up into "managable" size lots, he will spread it around where it will do the most good. Imagine how many systems will be either enhanced or fixed and how many other people will be intriqued by the possibilities of actually getting a PDP-8 up and running. Certainly a lot more people would be interested in one or two pieces/cards/units etc, than would be in two huge racks full. Lots easier to transport too! Just my $.02 worth, Craig Tony Eros wrote: > > Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with TU56, RK05, > high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 was evidently not > enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's > currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and front panel" with > about three days to go. > > Kind of a bummer. > > -- Tony From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Dec 4 09:41:05 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20011204100510.02c79db8@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011204094105.008f0100@ubanproductions.com> Yes, he works for a company which sells spares and as such they have a large inventory of old machines which have been dismantaled for component resale. The industrial 8 seems to have missed the dissassembly process originally, but as you say looks like it is now being sold in chunks, which is better than in bits and pieces. He is actually quite reasonably priced for individual boards and such, $15 for untested and $20 for tested on most old PDP11 parts... --tom At 10:10 AM 12/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with TU56, RK05, >high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 was evidently not >enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's >currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and front panel" with >about three days to go. > >Kind of a bummer. > >-- Tony > > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Dec 4 10:46:07 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20011204094105.008f0100@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200112041646.KAA14122@caesar.cs.umn.edu> This is not exactly correct. The complete 2 rack system did eventually sell, but not on ebay. He got $2000 for the whole lot. From someone who claims they would use the system for 'testing'. yeah right. What he is selling now, are a few gutted chassis. I purchased most of the PDP 8/e boards from him several weeks ago before I even knew of these extra chassis'... Mainly floppy controllers, EAE and dectape controllers. A lot of this stuff was thrown out, so there really werent that many 8/e cards available. By the way, the reason that the chassis currently on ebay is including the few cpu boards, is because I helped them after my sale by letting them know which of the boards that were still in their inventory would go with the existing chassis as a very basic system. In other words, there is no quarantee that those boards will even work with one another, due to various board revisions. None of the systems include the jumpers for making the second half of the omnibus to work. None include the lid/side/back panel. No top-connectors, no RK05 cables, etc, etc. And the boss wouldnt sell me one, they're going on ebay. The one you should be mourning, are the three systems sold by another company, that just gutted em for the front panels and cards which were ebay'd, receintly and the rest they didnt even bother putting on ebay... -Lawrence LeMay > Yes, he works for a company which sells spares and as such they have > a large inventory of old machines which have been dismantaled for > component resale. The industrial 8 seems to have missed the dissassembly > process originally, but as you say looks like it is now being sold > in chunks, which is better than in bits and pieces. > > He is actually quite reasonably priced for individual boards and such, > $15 for untested and $20 for tested on most old PDP11 parts... > > --tom > > At 10:10 AM 12/4/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with TU56, RK05, > >high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 was evidently not > >enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's > >currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and front panel" with > >about three days to go. > > > >Kind of a bummer. > > > >-- Tony > > > > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 4 10:02:34 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A18@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 4, Tony Eros wrote: > > Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with TU56, RK05, > > high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 was evidently not > > enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's > > currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and front panel" with > > about three days to go. > > > > Kind of a bummer. > > Lynch mob time. OTOH, I know someone hoping to pick up the chassis/front panel (not me)... -dq From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Dec 4 10:56:54 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A18@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <200112041656.KAA14168@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Then tell them there will be a lot of them, so dont drive the price up. -Lawrence LeMay > > OTOH, I know someone hoping to pick up the chassis/front panel > (not me)... > > -dq > From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Dec 4 10:33:01 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF2B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > On December 4, Tony Eros wrote: > > Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with > TU56, RK05, > > high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 > was evidently not > > enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's > > currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and > front panel" with > > about three days to go. > > Kind of a bummer. > Lynch mob time. Exactly what I was thinking. That really offends me. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Dec 4 10:04:50 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers In-Reply-To: References: <3C0BF60D.1468.170B9A6@localhost> Message-ID: <3C0C9FC2.9083.264A4F@localhost> On 4 Dec 2001, at 0:14, Tothwolf wrote: > I've got a few favorite collecting spots I'd be willing to share. > Sadly, some of my former favorites seem to have very few old computers > show up anymore. I'd be happy to share places I look as well. Alas one of my most favorite spots (had lots of classic stuff and was the type of place with no prices, you'd grab a bunch of stuff and the manager would ask what do you offer) threw everything out and converted to a $0.99 store. Guess my offers weren't making him enough. So who wants to get together one weekend? I'd be happy to act as a central point if people want to email me off list. Kelly, are you reading? Want to join in? David ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 4 12:37:36 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop In-Reply-To: "Carlini, Antonio" "RE: TK50-GA external SCSI tape unit + Microvax 3100 Desktop" (Dec 4, 0:39) References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066277@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <10112041837.ZM6669@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 4, 0:39, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > > pete@dunnington.u-net.com wrote: > > > >> (Oh, what's the 50 pin HD-DB type connector? line-printer?) > > > >Good question :-) > > After my earlier miscounting I'd better check > carefully :-0 but if this is labelled B1 (and > there is another one labelled B2 on *some* > MicroVAX 3100 Model 20s) and it is three > rows of pins ... then it is a synchronous > communications connector. The same > connector was used on several other > synch comms options (DEMSA, DECnis, > DSV11, DSB32, DMB32 and DSF32). > The interface presented (X.21, V.35, > RS422, RS423) was determined by the > stub cable you plugged in. Thanks for that -- that's helpful. I might even have a use for it :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 4 12:54:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: <10112040118.ZM5989@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 4, 1 01:18:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 378 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011204/51f7aade/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 4 13:21:04 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: Re: More E-Bay Insanity? (Tony Duell) References: <10112040118.ZM5989@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <15373.8736.334703.716070@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 4, Tony Duell wrote: > Presumably the number of people still using 8" drives who don't know how > to clean the heads 'by hand' is even less than the number of people using > 5.25" drives who don't know that. Which means that apart from collectors, > there may be very few people who actaully need an 8" cleaning kit... ...which further suggests that, of the people who would want an 8" cleaning kit, a higher percentage of them are collectors. Get those 8" kits on eBay, and make a fortune! ;) [sorry, couldn't resist..] Say, anybody got a spare top lid for a 10.5" 11/34 CPU chassis? I could actually use two if anybody has a pile o' parts.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 4 12:59:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: More E-Bay Insanity? In-Reply-To: <887.738T2050T2605655optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 4, 1 04:20:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 990 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011204/bce50f9c/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 4 13:17:37 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Anyone have a MicroVax II in a BA123 available? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092229.00a49d50@www.mcmanis.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20011204011651.024dfad0@209.185.79.193> <5.1.0.14.0.20011204094633.00a3e700@www.mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <3C0D2151.A80E5A8@jetnet.ab.ca> Chuck McManis wrote: > That's the problem Ben, I'm happy to take it to the local pack and ship > place and say "Make this go from here to there via UPS Ground." but > depending on the weight, the item (fragile/not fragile/big/not big) the > price varies tremendously. From reasonable $11 - $15 to outrageous $50 - > $75. Now I trust this guy who does the packing, he's great but I get into a > situation where off it goes and now I've got to send you a bill that > perhaps isn't worth it to you to pay. That's the risk that I deal with. I think this boils down to what is a realistic price for a item. Take a used terminal, I would like to spend $100 canadian for one, shipping included. I would not mind spending $5, but will that get me $200 of headaches. This is where I think we need a informal price sheets of costs involved. Also a good resource for documentation and software. Over the last few years many of the $5-$25 items that I found could have been more valuable I tossed because of lack of documentation or no software. Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 4 13:22:33 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Houston Classic Computers In-Reply-To: <3C0C9FC2.9083.264A4F@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, David Williams wrote: > On 4 Dec 2001, at 0:14, Tothwolf wrote: > > I've got a few favorite collecting spots I'd be willing to share. > > Sadly, some of my former favorites seem to have very few old computers > > show up anymore. > > I'd be happy to share places I look as well. Alas one of my most > favorite spots (had lots of classic stuff and was the type of place > with no prices, you'd grab a bunch of stuff and the manager would > ask what do you offer) threw everything out and converted to a > $0.99 store. Guess my offers weren't making him enough. A few weeks ago when I went to one place I visited regularly, they told me they got rid of all their old computer stuff. There wasn't so much as a single pc board or power supply to be found. One of my current favorite spots, I find a box, load it up with board/cables/junk, and ask em what they want. The more it's piled up, the better the price seems to be ;) Most of the stuff I pick up at that place is old Mac/PC stuff, but I've seen some Sun parts in there at times too. If you are looking for MFM/RLL type drives, dead or alive, they seem to be one place worth looking. Another place that used to be one of my favorites is a scrap metal dealer, I don't go there much anymore, since they always wanted way too much money for anything they had. They always seemed to have very loud annoying music playing too :/ -Toth From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Dec 4 12:59:17 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Shugart hard disk info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01Dec4.151208est.119070@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> This is being asked out of curiosity, since I happened to think about it today. About 13 years ago, a large hard disk was pulled out of a piece of medical equipment and made it's way across my desk. The drive was made by Shugart and I believe it had a SASI interface. It was easily as big as a dual-8" floppy enclosure, maybe 14" in diameter and had it's own PSU. The case over the platters was clear plastic. One of the guys I worked with pulled the PSU parts out of it and unfortunately I didn't think to keep the rest of it from being junked, mainly due to it's size. Any ideas as to what this might have been? It certainly wasn't near new at the time of it's removal. At the time, we were still running a CP/M system for our tracking database and we backed up it's hard disk once a week on it's 8" floppy drive, which was integrated in the system and standing on it's side. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 4 13:45:19 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (One Without Reason) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Parting out on eBay In-Reply-To: <15372.60591.974573.476351@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: I'm in. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 4, Tony Eros wrote: > > Last month someone had an Industrial-8 two rack system with TU56, RK05, > > high-speed paper tape reader/punch listed on eBay. $1000 was evidently not > > enough, because now he appears to be selling off the bits. There's > > currently a listing for "PDP 8 Industrial DEC chassis and front panel" with > > about three days to go. > > > > Kind of a bummer. > > Lynch mob time. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL > From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Dec 4 13:51:31 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Terminal finds? Message-ID: <14c.5262af0.293e8343@aol.com> Does anyone on the list know where I might be able to find a few (10-20) used but in good shape dumb terminals? I need some with a pc-style kb and wyse 60 emulation. -Linc Fessenden In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Tue Dec 4 14:47:40 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Terminal finds? References: <14c.5262af0.293e8343@aol.com> Message-ID: <3C0D366C.ECD3FE52@tinyworld.co.uk> LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone on the list know where I might be able to find a few > (10-20) used but in good shape dumb terminals? I need some with a > pc-style kb and wyse 60 emulation. Where are you, Linc? I have about 30 Wyse WY-520s that I can't even give away. I'm not sure what type the keyboards are. I'm in West Sussex, UK. If anyone in the UK needs terminal(s) with a good VT420 emulation and you're prepared to come and get them, be my guest. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 4 13:54:53 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Dataproducts printer inteface In-Reply-To: <00fc01c17b9d$a7824960$259117d2@garuda> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011204145453.007eb100@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:55 PM 12/3/01 +1100, you wrote: >Sorry for the repost... but has anyone heard of >the (old) Dataproducts printer inteface? >It was also called the Line printer interface, and >was used on other Brands besides just Dataproducts. FWIW: I've never heard of a "Dataproducts interface" but I've seen dozens of Dataproducts S-100 cards including printer interfaces. They do, or at least did, show up regularly in the scrap places around here (Florida). Usually there are some name brand S-100 cards with them. I pick up the standard brand S-100 cards but not the Dataproducts ones since I have no docs for them. I've never seen the machines that the cards come out of so I have no idea about them. Joe > >Basically I know it uses differential signals - otherwise similar >to centronics - but I would like to find out some details. > >I have the Pinout: >http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/parallel/dataproductsdsub50.html > >I would really like to find a description of the >"Demand" signal and the polarity of "Strobe" and "OnLine" >I would like to know the levels (I presume they are TTL) > >If anyone can help me out, perhaps I can respond >in kind by giving them the final result - a circuit >for a Centronics-->Dataproducts interface. > >steve@airborn.com.au > > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 4 14:00:45 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: The cost of "free" stuff In-Reply-To: <3C0D2151.A80E5A8@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011203005647.00ad67a0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.0.20011203092229.00a49d50@www.mcmanis.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20011204011651.024dfad0@209.185.79.193> <5.1.0.14.0.20011204094633.00a3e700@www.mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011204113215.0281a6d0@mcmanis.com> At 11:17 AM 12/4/01, Ben Franchuk wrote: >I think this boils down to what is a realistic price for a item. No, it doesn't. It boils down to whether or not you want something. Clearly the only truly "free" thing is when you happen to drive by someone's house for some other reason, and they hand you something you didn't expect. You were going to their house anyway, and so the costs associated with driving there were already budgeted. I have lots of excess VAX stuff because I tend to buy it on occasion from scrappers and government types who are throwing it away. That leaves me with extras of course and I've pretty much saturated the folks in the Bay Area who are willing to come get stuff. So now I have two options: The "free" option is I put it on the sidewalk on a certain day and the City of Sunnyvale comes by with a big truck and takes it away. This has the benefit that it requires little work on my part, it has the downside that another piece of nearly classic hardware has ended its life permanently. A slightly less "free" option is that I can give it to a scrapper who will try to auction it off and then if that fails will recycle it. This has the benefit that there is a small chance I might get some of the money I invested back. The even less "free" option is that I offer it here for the cost of shipping. Now I spend the time and effort to, find or buy a box to pack it in, then drive down to a package delivery service and send it on its way. For things that fit in a Priority mail box this works well (Q-bus boards for example) because the post office gives you boxes and generally I've got enough left over packing material that its straight forward to do. Plus the mailman will pick the box up from my house if I choose. The even more expensive option (to me) is to try to give something "big" away (A MicroVAX II in a BA123 certainly fits that category!). Now I have to buy a special box and/or pallet. That's usually about $8 - $15. Then the foam (peanuts don't work on really heavy things) which can run $5 - $15 depending. And spend the time packing it and take it to the UPS counter, wait in line, and ship it. All told about 2 - 4 hours of my time. Lately, given how busy I've been, it has been really hard to find the time to do that sort of stuff. So the final option is to simply take the item to a pack and ship place that is < 10 minutes away. Fill out their UPS shipment form, leave them my credit card information, and then go home again. My time is < 1 hr. But then I have no visibility into how much it will cost (I do know these guys well and it is fairly economical) but its 10% - 20% more than if I spent the time to pack it and take it to UPS. However, for some things, say a PDP-8, I seriously doubt that anyone on this list would refuse to pay the cost to pack and ship it to them by a third party. For common things, like a MicroVAX II the value proposition is not so clear. >Take a used terminal, I would like to spend $100 canadian for one, >shipping included. I would not mind spending $5, but will that >get me $200 of headaches. This is where I think we need a informal >price sheets of costs involved. Except that "used terminals" from dealers typically cost around $100 US. By the same token, they are exceptionally easy to find for the moment so if you invested in a couple of tanks of gas you could probably find one within 1 days drive for "free". But now you would have to invest your time and effort to call folks, drive around, and pick it up and maybe it works and maybe it doesn't. Over the last two years I've ended up buying over 15 VT320's, out of those 15 I've kept 6 really nice examples (bright, non-burned, screens, two GREEN ones!). They probably cost me $150 total in terms of cash but maybe a weeks worth (40 hrs) of time over those two years. So the bottom line is, if you want a Link MC70 terminal w/Manual [I paid $20 for the manual from one of those dealers], which people sell on the web for US$400 for the cost that I paid to have it packed and shipped to you, _whatever_ that happens to be. (I realize that you have to trust that I would try to rip you off by telling you it cost more than it did, I'd be happy to include for you the invoice from the pack and ship place) Then let me know. > Also a good resource for documentation >and software. Over the last few years many of the $5-$25 items that >I found could have been more valuable I tossed because of lack of >documentation >or no software. I'll include the manual. However, another thing this reminded me off. It has, displayed some initial temperature instability. This came in the form of the 'yellow' changing a bit now and then. Since only one character changed it appeared to be one of the RAMs and not the tube or crt electronics. After it was warmed up this symptom went away. --Chuck From mythtech at Mac.com Tue Dec 4 14:53:19 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: Anyone parting with a Wyse 60 Message-ID: Does anyone have a Wyse 60 they want to part with on the cheap? (working only please... I have a dead one thanks) I tried buying one on ebay a few times, and each time, either they were in horrible condition, or went above my price threshold, or I got "ebayed" at the last second by someone outbidding me. I would prefer one in the NJ area that I can drive and pick up as cost is my #1 issue, but if total cost (buy + shipping) isn't too bad, I will accept shipped ones. I might have stuff to trade, but most everything I have that is available to be parted with is PC related, which A: isn't as popular here, and B: isn't as hard to get as other systems. I do have a C64 or two (don't know functional condition), maybe some other stuff (like these Zebra 2500 manuals I keep tripping on) If you have something in mind, let me know, I will see if I have it. Thanks -chris From root at ns2.ezwind.net Sat Dec 8 18:15:13 2001 From: root at ns2.ezwind.net (Charlie Root) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:37 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <200112090015.fB90FD700236@ns2.ezwind.net> testing From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 8 18:48:00 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: <200112090015.fB90FD700236@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200112090015.fB90FD700236@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: >testing Cool...the first message I've seen come through here since Tuesday! Alright Jay..... Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 8 20:18:32 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <714.743T1600T1985537optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>testing > Cool...the first message I've seen come through here since >Tuesday! Alright Jay..... Oh no, is this list back up again? This has been the most quiet week I've had in a long time. I'm sorry to say it, but the finals are coming up, and this last week has really opened my eye as to how great a portion of my mailbox which has been ClassicCmp traffic, so I'm sorry to say that it's no good-bye from me. Good bye, list, I hope we'll see each other in the future, too! I tend to bump into some of you in other fora, since the regs are often celebs in other places, too. Arrivederci! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL! TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER! From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Dec 8 19:04:35 2001 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: <200112090015.fB90FD700236@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Charlie Root wrote: > testing > testing 1..2..3... PCW From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 8 19:22:03 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: Re: testing (Peter C. Wallace) References: <200112090015.fB90FD700236@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <15378.48315.364570.65911@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 8, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > testing > > testing 1..2..3... KA410-A V1.2 F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1_.. -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From anon2048 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 8 18:45:31 2001 From: anon2048 at hotmail.com (Anon 2048) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: test number 2 Message-ID: test number 2 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From ernestls at attbi.com Sat Dec 8 20:35:03 2001 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Yay! It's back up In-Reply-To: <3C12BA9D.4C25AF6C@attbi.com> Message-ID: My email has been to quiet lately. Ernest From mranalog at attbi.com Sat Dec 8 19:13:01 2001 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: 1961 build-your-own computer book Message-ID: <3C12BA9D.4C25AF6C@attbi.com> I just recently found a cute little computer book called "I can learn about Calculators and Computers" by Raymond G. Kenyon, Harper & Brothers, 1961 112 pages. The chapters are entitled: How Early Man Counted and Computed The Story of Modern Computers Construct Your Own Calculators and Computers - - Oriental Abacus - John Napier's Bones - Slide Rules - "Stepped-Wheel" Calculator - Digital Computer - Analog Computer Materials used consist of wood, wire, D-cell batteries, flashlight bulbs, potentiometers, etc. Remember wooden cigar boxes? Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ========================================= From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 8 19:38:13 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Wanted: Tiger Learning Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I'm wanting to buy a Tiger Learning Computer from anyone who may have one >they don't want. This was the kid computer released during Christmas of >1996 but only sold in limited numbers in the JC Penney 1996 Christmas >catalog. It was Apple ][ compatible--it basically had enhanced Apple //e >ROMs and used Flash ROM cards as an emulated Disk ][ drive. It had >Appleworks built-in. Very nifty. Fry's had a couple of notebook looking things, except with very small, ie 5 lines x40 character displays called Learning Computers. Prices were $29 for extremely cheesy, and $69 for moderately Cheesy. Maybe there is a connection to the earlier machines? From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 8 21:15:06 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: iPDS questions Message-ID: I'm sure glad to see the list is back up, I originally tried the following message on Tuesday. I still don't know anything more about the system. Unfortunatly it's been raining really hard around here since Tuesday, so the system is still sitting at work, and I've not really been able to examine it. Zane I'm still a little shocked. I just found a working iPDS system, complete with documentation and some software. Unfortunatly I don't think a lot of it is still readable. I did get the system to boot and pass all diagnostics. I know nothing about these beasties, from looking at the doc's it's obviously i8085 based with 64k RAM. It's got a single 5 1/4" floppy, and it's in a case slightly smaller than a Kaypro II. In the area behind the CRT is a storage area for two pods that each handle two different sizes of PROMs, these plug into a hole in the right side of the case. What on earth filesystem are the floppies? Are any kind of software images available to replace the dead floppies? Is there any software to read and write to the floppies from MS-DOS? Basically the main thing I'm interested in is the systems ability to read and write PROMs. I wouldn't mind being able to use this to support my DEC hardware :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From UberTechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 7 22:33:15 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Shugart hard disk info In-Reply-To: <01Dec4.151208est.119070@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20011209023949.ERLB16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Kinda sounds like a Quantum Q2020. I had one with a sasi board mounted on it back in 93'. Has a smoked plastic mech cover and a whole bunch of warning stickers indicating it can remove digits if you dink with it while open? I used a CSS Black Box for an interface. Sasi drives (and most scsi bridge controllers) require specific formatting code. Also, iirc, sasi devices required a dos-level bad sector map of the drive. In other words, the dos you use scans the drive and creates a file occupying all the bad sectors detected. The hardware didn't do that as with most (all?) scsi drives/bridge controllers. As I recall, the q2020 has the same geometry as the Seagate st225 (620/4/17).?? The q2020 is an 8" 20mb unformatted drive which yields 16mb (more or less) when formatted and has a 40ms average seek time. Mine had an aluminum cased ps bolted to it and the drive stood on it's side. Regards, Jeff In <01Dec4.151208est.119070@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil>, on 12/04/01 at 02:59 PM, Jeff Hellige said: > This is being asked out of curiosity, since I happened to >think about it today. About 13 years ago, a large hard disk was pulled >out of a piece of medical equipment and made it's way across my desk. >The drive was made by Shugart and I believe it had a SASI interface. It >was easily as big as a dual-8" floppy enclosure, maybe 14" in diameter >and had it's own PSU. The case over the platters was clear plastic. >One of the guys I worked with pulled the PSU parts out of it and >unfortunately I didn't think to keep the rest of it from being junked, >mainly due to it's size. Any ideas as to what this might have been? It >certainly wasn't near new at the time of it's removal. At the time, we >were still running a CP/M system for our tracking database and we backed >up it's hard disk once a week on it's 8" floppy drive, which was >integrated in the system and standing on it's side. > Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From UberTechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 7 22:56:52 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Need "PC Mouse" driver for PCjr .. In-Reply-To: <3C0986B1.4090905@magnaspeed.net> Message-ID: <20011209023948.ERKY16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> I've been using a Logitech Wheel Mouse (optical) for more than a year now on my OS/2-based pc. My Sparc has an old-style optical mouse (requires special HARD TO FIND pad). The new optical mice rock hard core man. I can't believe it, but now there is a mouse that will track on your ASS. I play CounterStrike quite a bit and wouldn't trade my optical Logitech for anything less than the cost of a new one. This optical mouse is so accurate it immediatly improved my scores in the game. It tracks on any surface at all (I haven't tried a mirror). BTW, I don't bother with a pad anymore. Too confining. In <3C0986B1.4090905@magnaspeed.net>, on 12/01/01 at 07:41 PM, "Michael B. Brutman" said: >Chris (mythtech@mac.com) spake: > >>The mouse looks to be a slightly > >>modified version of the "PC Mouse". The neat thing is that it is an > >>optical mouse. [:-)] > >I had an optical mouse way back when with my Mac Plus... I bought it >as >a replacement for a broken mouse. I think it was made by A+ > >At the time, I hated it, you needed a special mouse pad for it to work, > >and it wasn't as accurate as the Mac Plus mouse, which made it even > >harder to draw. > >Just one of those things that I found interesting now that optical mice > >are all the rage. >Actually, I don't like the old style optical mice at all. I like this >one because I think the older optical mice are hard to find. And on top >of it, this was manufactured for use on the Jr - it wasn't just a >run-of-the-mill PC mouse, it had two funny connectors specific to the Jr. >(One for serial, and one to take power off the lightpen port.) All of >that makes it special. >My original machine had an MS bus mouse with a roller. Quite a different >animal to use. >The new optical mice are only vaguely related to the old ones. They don't >need the pad or anything. I haven't used one, so I don't know if they >are any more usable. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From UberTechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 7 23:01:17 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Sun Optical mouse pad anyone? In-Reply-To: <15369.24039.255250.646501@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011209023946.ERKP16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> I ran into this problem a couple of years ago and solved it by buying a PC optical version of a sun mouse, trashing the mouse and mating the pad with my Sun..... In the meantime, someone on the list suggested crinkled aluminum foil over a book or other pad-like thingy. It worked. Not wonderfully, but it worked. Regards, Jeff In <15369.24039.255250.646501@phaduka.neurotica.com>, on 12/01/01 at 05:47 PM, Dave McGuire said: >On December 1, jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: >> > Type 3 definitely requires a different pad from type 4... >> Then you have other type 3 rodents than I. Mine are identical to the >> type 4 mice, only with an other connector. > It's certainly possible that I'm thinking of the Type 2...this was a >long time ago and I was running a couple of Sun2-120 boxes at the time. > -Dave -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From UberTechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 7 23:09:13 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Badtrans In-Reply-To: <001b01c1790f$616a20a0$504d7ad5@phoenix> Message-ID: <20011209023945.ERJY16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> My brother has an xxxxx-devnull@xxxx.com address. I thought that was a pretty nifty way of dealing with spam. ;-) Regards, Jeff In <001b01c1790f$616a20a0$504d7ad5@phoenix>, on 11/29/01 at 07:52 PM, "Philip Pemberton" said: >Hi All, > I've noticed that a few of you have been chatting about Badtrans - >according to Symantec, if you drop the underscore from the "From:" >address, you should end up with the user's actual e-mail address - if the >virus chose to use the actual address... > I've picked apart the message source and what it does is quite sneaky >- >it uses an IFRAME to load the virus and also uses >MIME-headers-within-MIME-headers... A few of the regulars on >alt.comp.virus might want to elaborate... It's a crafty little bugger - >it even installs a keystroke logging trojan... Anyone remember the >so-called "Sexyfun" or "Spirale" virus (it's real name was Hybris) - it >came in an e-mail from hahaha @ sexyfun.net and could update itself over >the web with new "plugins"... One of which displays a _huge_ hypnotic >spiral on-screen... Sophos put a screenshot of it on their website >(www.sophos.com). >Later. >-- >Phil. >philpem@bigfoot.com >http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From UberTechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 7 23:18:46 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Macintosh In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011209023944.ERJV16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> I think system 7.1? You can however run a neato unix system on it named MiNT. MiNT is a bsd variant that runs on 68k boxes that don't have an mmu or fpu onboard. Of course if you have these chips on a later-model machine so much the better. I run it on my 4mb Atari Mega St and am pretty happy with it. Just do a websearch for SpareMint or MacMint. Regards, Jeff In , on 11/29/01 at 09:40 AM, One Without Reason said: >Could someone tell me what the last version of Macintosh System to run on >68K machines was? Where can I get a copy? >Peace... Sridhar -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From UberTechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 7 23:22:03 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Is it a Lisa or Mac XL?! In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD372259C0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20011209023942.ERJS16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> There are rumors and facts regarding Atari's activity in disposal. Mass graves of Atari computers, game machines, cartridges. I do believe that most of the "ET" game carts were buried in unmarked graves.... Good. ET sucked. Regards, Jeff In <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD372259C0@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>, on 11/29/01 at 07:00 AM, Douglas Quebbeman said: >> Scrapping them off the books for tax purposes, in all likelyhood. We >> used to have to physically destroy our COMBOARDs before we could write >> them off. If we were ever audited and happened to have product that >> was logged as scrap, but hadn't been, we would have been in a world >> of hurt from either the County Tax officials or perhaps the IRS. >> >> It sucks, but if you scrap hardware, you have to render it useless. >IMHO, all you need to do is ensure there remains no evidence to the >contrary... admittedly, it might get very difficult to have 10,000 units >disappear with a wink and a handshake... >-dq -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From UberTechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 7 23:24:19 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: FS: Only ATR8500 in existence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011209023941.ERJN16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> To the best of my knowlege, this is the only SWP ATR8500 in existence. It's serial number is "005". It was a prototype sent to B&C way back when. It includes the original manuals, boot disks, schematics etc. It is an Atari peripheral (disk interface, printerface, serialface) and a CP/M computer with 64kb onboard. It is a board (no case) about the same dimensions as the controller board on a Seagate St506 but with different mounting holes. Basicly this is an ATR8000 with a hardware uart, a dma jack and a much smaller footprint. Power requirements can be met with a standard XT/AT supply (re-order pins to match jack). It does not require an Atari to use as it will interface with a standard dumb terminal. Any offers? Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ncherry at home.com Sat Dec 8 21:00:27 2001 From: ncherry at home.com (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: FS: Only ATR8500 in existence References: <20011209023941.ERJN16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Message-ID: <3C12D3CB.B22BC064@home.com> UberTechnoid@home.com wrote: > > To the best of my knowlege, this is the only SWP ATR8500 in existence. > It's serial number is "005". It was a prototype sent to B&C way back > when. It includes the original manuals, boot disks, schematics etc. It > is an Atari peripheral (disk interface, printerface, serialface) and a > CP/M computer with 64kb onboard. It is a board (no case) about the same > dimensions as the controller board on a Seagate St506 but with different > mounting holes. > > Basicly this is an ATR8000 with a hardware uart, a dma jack and a much > smaller footprint. Power requirements can be met with a standard XT/AT > supply (re-order pins to match jack). > > It does not require an Atari to use as it will interface with a standard > dumb terminal. > > Any offers? Please don't get insulted as all I can offer is $100 + shipping. If no one offers please consider it. And Yes I thik it's worth more but I'm on a tighter budget lately. I have an ATR-8000 and I think it's great. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II) From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 8 21:44:28 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Stacking Apple ][ stuff Message-ID: <20011209034428.54502.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Lawson wrote: > Aluminium = non-magnetic Iron = magnetic in terms of marginal > shielding from external fields. Do para-magnetic cows go "mu"? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 8 21:46:18 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) Message-ID: <20011209034618.48673.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Louis Schulman wrote: > Commodore PET drive system. Holy smoke, a whole second computer just > to operate the drives, and even then, blecch. Being a PET user from way back, I always liked the Commodore drives from one particular aspect - they were intellegent peripherals. You didn't bang on a couple of registers to make magic things happen (like on the Apple), you communicated your request and it did what you asked or it told you why it didn't work. The thing I did *not* like about them was that they were scorchingly expensive. By the time I could afford a PET drive, nobody cared anymore. I think my first 4040 was about $10 from the university surplus. I also liked the fact that the PET did not need boot disks. I saw that as a major source of problems watching my friends sort through piles of Apple floppies, looking for a DOS3.3 disk. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 8 21:47:48 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple DuoDisk (was Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff) Message-ID: <20011209034748.79050.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/8/2001 5:06:19 AM Central Standard Time, > foo@siconic.com writes: > I do remember reading something of a faulty/out of spec component > inside the duodisk that would cause some issues with the floppy drives > but like I said, coming up 404 on it. Think I'll ask in comp.sys..... > and find out for sure. I'd like to hear more about this. I always used individual drives (typically SA400 mechs) when I did Apple development. The IIe and DuoDisk were too new and expensive for a low-budget shop like us (but we did eventually support the //c _and_ the Apple mouse) I have a DuoDisk but no cable. What pins were used? I think I _might_ have a cable that was sacrificed to the Amiga gods by having one of the pins broken out of one end for use as a modem cable (since the Amiga puts voltage on some of the pins). It was a stupid thing to do, but it was more than 10 years ago when Apple stuff was underappreciated. Anyone have an Apple part number for a DuoDisk cable? Will a 25-pin straight-through work? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 8 21:49:17 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Shugart hard disk info In-Reply-To: Re: Shugart hard disk info (UberTechnoid@home.com) References: <01Dec4.151208est.119070@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <20011209023949.ERLB16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Message-ID: <15378.57149.294724.824846@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 7, UberTechnoid@home.com wrote: > As I recall, the q2020 has the same geometry as the Seagate st225 > (620/4/17).?? I think that's 614 cylinders for the ST225. Oh GOD why do I remember that? Can't I recycle those brain cells? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Dec 8 20:13:20 2001 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) Message-ID: <13697572560.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Same machine, new problem. ^_^ Whilst out in the garage playing with the 44 (which I still don't have an OS for...), my kid sister and one of her friends come out to the garage to smoke. (They're not allowed to smoke in the house.) Anyway, while the 44 is running, her friend says, "Wow, that's loud!", to which Monica replies "This one's louder!" and turns on the KS10... You know what's coming. And we had christmas tree packages and such all over the garage, too, so navigating the garage in the dark was real fun... (For those who didn't see it coming, the garage breaker went...) Anyway, after resetting the breaker, waiting for the VAX to reboot, checking that the KS10 was still in working order (I wouldn't be mailing if the KS10 was broken. I'd be busy burying my sister. ^_^) and putting back all the boxes I stepped on or knocked over, it was discovered that the 11/44 no longer powered on. The power control lights are on, the RX02 and SCSI disks inside the case work, but the BA11 (Is that the right part?) will not turn on. When you turn the switch on the front panel, nothing happens. No click, no fans, nothing. The breaker on the back of the BA11 did not trip. I turned it off and back on, nothing happened. I ran the AC power checks in the manual and nothing happened. I checked the front-panel wiring was still connected, it was. I pulled and reseated the front-panel control board in the UNIBUS. Nada. It looks like it should be working, it doesn't smell burnt, and I opened the top of the BA11 power supply and looked inside, and it looks really scary (what, with the THIS VOLTAGE WILL KILL YOU stickers and wires thick as my fingers and whatnot...) but it doesn't look burnt. Is there a hidden switch or fuse or something in there? That's what it looks like... Failing that, someone got directions for checking out an 11/44 power supply? ------- From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Dec 7 22:24:19 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Shugart hard disk info In-Reply-To: <15378.57149.294724.824846@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <01Dec4.151208est.119070@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <20011209023949.ERLB16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011207202331.02bcb1c0@mail.zipcon.net> 615 Cyls, 4 heads, 17 SPT - ST225 :) At 10:49 PM 12/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >On December 7, UberTechnoid@home.com wrote: > > As I recall, the q2020 has the same geometry as the Seagate st225 > > (620/4/17).?? > > I think that's 614 cylinders for the ST225. > > Oh GOD why do I remember that? Can't I recycle those brain cells? > > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire >St. Petersburg, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 8 21:52:38 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Stacking Apple ][ stuff In-Reply-To: Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff (Ethan Dicks) References: <20011209034428.54502.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15378.57350.504557.891507@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 8, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Aluminium = non-magnetic Iron = magnetic in terms of marginal > > shielding from external fields. > > Do para-magnetic cows go "mu"? You are a sick, sick man. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 8 21:54:18 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) Message-ID: <20011209035418.77711.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Here's what you need to do to get reliable results from Apple drives: > > > And I am probably a good test of real world abuse to the Apple Drive ][ > > drives, as I was just a wee child, and I didn't follow any rules that > > I probably should have... My former boss at Software Productions (we wrote kiddie software for home computers under the Reader's Digest label) put a story in an early version of the docs of how he fired up his Apple ][ to run CP/M and the disk drive made odd noises... he took it in for service and the tech extracted fragments of a Peanut Butter & Jelly sandwich. Seems his kids were playing games and eating PB&J and decided the computer must be hungry, too... It's not just oatmeal in the VCR... -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From louiss at gate.net Sat Dec 8 22:15:46 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: <20011209034618.48673.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:46:18 -0800 (PST), Ethan Dicks wrote: #I also liked the fact that the PET did not need boot disks. I saw that #as a major source of problems watching my friends sort through piles of #Apple floppies, looking for a DOS3.3 disk. They probably existed, but I don't recall ever seeing a non-bootable program disk for an Apple II. And data disks are not much use without program disks. Of course, putting the DOS in the drive's ROM somewhat limits your choices as to an OS. If you recall, with an add-on card or two, an Apple could run DOS 3.3, ProDOS, CP/M, OS-9, MS-DOS (needed an add-on drive as well) and probably some other OS that I have forgotten. Louis From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Dec 8 22:02:08 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Seeking info and parts for MicroVax II BA123 Message-ID: Well, after all the talk about a MicroVax II BA123 on the list lately, I managed to unbury mine. It appears to be all original except for 2 hard drives that may have been added as an upgrade. All the boards match up with the DEC sticker with handwritten board numbers. It has the standard cpu board, what seems to be a 2mb ram board, a serial interface board w/ 8 ports, and the standard scsi and tape interface boards. It also has some sort of loopback board in the upper 3rd slot. Does anyone have a link to reference info on these boards? I'd like to find a pair of 8mb ram boards and a network interface for this thing, so I can put it back in service for open source software development/testing. I don't know the part numbers for these boards, so any extra info would be great. I'm also looking for the door that covers the front control panel, as this machine seems to have lost its door at some point before I rescued it. If anyone has any of these parts laying around, please drop me an email. I'm more then willing to pay shipping. I really don't think I have much of anything anyone here would want as a trade, so I'm willing to pay for the parts too if required. Another interesting tidbit about this box, it still has its inventory sticker from NASA, and it orig cost good old uncle sam $22,000+. Anyone else wonder why they didn't have it outfitted with a network interface of somesort, especially with it costing that much already? -Toth From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 8 22:02:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: OT: on-air closed captioning and lost carriers In-Reply-To: <20011209023949.ERLB16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> References: <20011209023949.ERLB16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Message-ID: This is off topic but thought some of you might find it interesting. I actually started laughing when I saw it and my wife couldn't figure out what I was laughing at. We were watching the figure skating competition that was being broadcast from the MCI Center in Washington D.C. tonight. She always has the closed-captioning turned on and suddenly a 'no carrier' popped up on the screen. A few seconds later it was followed by a 'RING' and then almost immediately it was followed by a 'Connect 1200'. It would appear that whomever was doing the captioning was doing it remotely and lost the connection and that the computer they were connected to was broadcasting anything that was transmitted, including error messages. This brings back memories of connecting by older modems to BBS systems, as well as memories of occasionally seeing a GURU error when an Amiga on a Cable TV station would crash. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 8 22:18:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Shugart hard disk info References: <20011209023949.ERLB16411.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Message-ID: <000901c18068$832b6d60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:33 PM Subject: Re: Shugart hard disk info > Kinda sounds like a Quantum Q2020. I had one with a sasi board mounted on > it back in 93'. Has a smoked plastic mech cover and a whole bunch of > warning stickers indicating it can remove digits if you dink with it while > open? I used a CSS Black Box for an interface. Sasi drives (and most scsi > bridge controllers) require specific formatting code. Also, iirc, sasi > devices required a dos-level bad sector map of the drive. In other words, > the dos you use scans the drive and creates a file occupying all the bad > sectors detected. The hardware didn't do that as with most (all?) scsi > drives/bridge controllers. > Shugart also made drives fitting this description, though I don't believe the Shugart drives extracted the clock for you as ISTR the Quantum drives did. Both drive types had a 4.34 MHz data rate and a 3125 RPM index rate, though. The bridge controllers didn't do the media flaw or the bad-sector management for you. The drive maker sent a defect list with the drive and, since the format was up to the controller, and the number and size of sectors were for you to choose, in some cases, they couldn't do bad sector mangement because that was your job via the system software and utilities. Since the bad spots fell on different sectors with differing sector sizes, the controller couldn't know in advance where the defects lay. > > As I recall, the q2020 has the same geometry as the Seagate st225 (620/4/17).?? > IIRC, the Q20xx series had 512 cylinders and 2, 4, or 8 heads. I may yet have a data sheet for that series, as I have one or two of each model, still. > > The q2020 is an 8" 20mb unformatted drive which yields 16mb (more or less) > when formatted and has a 40ms average seek time. > > Mine had an aluminum cased ps bolted to it and the drive stood on it's > side. > > Regards, > > Jeff > From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Dec 8 22:06:00 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple DuoDisk (was Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff) In-Reply-To: <20011209034748.79050.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have a DuoDisk but no cable. What pins were used? I think I _might_ > have a cable that was sacrificed to the Amiga gods by having one of the > pins broken out of one end for use as a modem cable (since the Amiga puts > voltage on some of the pins). It was a stupid thing to do, but it was > more than 10 years ago when Apple stuff was underappreciated. > > Anyone have an Apple part number for a DuoDisk cable? Will a 25-pin > straight-through work? I've got one buried *somewhere*, and can look for it if no one else here has any info on it. -Toth From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Dec 8 22:18:48 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: iPDS questions Message-ID: <15c.578d8cd.29444028@aol.com> In a message dated 12/8/01 7:23:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > I just found a working iPDS system, complete > with documentation and some software. Unfortunately I don't think a lot of > it is still readable. I did get the system to boot and pass all > diagnostics. > > I know nothing about these beasties, from looking at the doc's it's > obviously i8085 based with 64k RAM. It's got a single 5 1/4" floppy, and > it's in a case slightly smaller than a Kaypro II. In the area behind the > CRT is a storage area for two pods that each handle two different sizes of > PROMs, these plug into a hole in the right side of the case. > Hi Zane; Nice find. I just dug out a couple iPDSs out of my storage locker that I am getting ready for sale. I may be interested in some copies of the documentation. I also have some disks but have not checked their condition. You are right that they are 8085 systems. Besides EPROM programmers there was also an EMV 51 emulator pod for IIRC debugging the 8051. There are also external floppy disk drives that daisy chain to it. It also ran CPM. I believe Fred's Xenocopy program will copy diskettes for it. IIRC they are standard 360K DSDD drives. Paxton Astoria, OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011208/25d6c3e1/attachment.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Dec 8 13:42:07 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: testing References: Message-ID: <3C126D0F.D2C7FF6D@jetnet.ab.ca> "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Charlie Root wrote: > > > testing > > > > testing 1..2..3... > > PCW not testing 0 , 1 , 10 , 11 , 100 -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 8 22:59:56 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Seeking info and parts for MicroVax II BA123 In-Reply-To: Seeking info and parts for MicroVax II BA123 (Tothwolf) References: Message-ID: <15378.61388.64863.670347@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 8, Tothwolf wrote: > Another interesting tidbit about this box, it still has its inventory > sticker from NASA, and it orig cost good old uncle sam $22,000+. Anyone > else wonder why they didn't have it outfitted with a network interface of > somesort, especially with it costing that much already? Not at all. Not all computers are used as part of networks, you know. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From fernande at internet1.net Sat Dec 8 23:06:14 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) References: <20011209035418.77711.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C12F146.F2A4E21D@internet1.net> My uncle's 286.... this was when a 286 was expensive..... got Playdoe inserted into one of the floppy drives by my cousin. This is of course when PC floppy drives were still quite expensive :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ethan Dicks wrote: > My former boss at Software Productions (we wrote kiddie software for home > computers under the Reader's Digest label) put a story in an early > version of the docs of how he fired up his Apple ][ to run CP/M and the > disk drive made odd noises... he took it in for service and the tech > extracted fragments of a Peanut Butter & Jelly sandwich. Seems his kids > were playing games and eating PB&J and decided the computer must be hungry, > too... > > It's not just oatmeal in the VCR... > > -ethan From korpela at cyclops.ssl.berkeley.edu Sat Dec 8 23:11:58 2001 From: korpela at cyclops.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: from Louis Schulman at "Dec 8, 2001 11:15:46 pm" Message-ID: <200112090511.VAA04266@cyclops.ssl.berkeley.edu> > They probably existed, but I don't recall ever seeing a non-bootable program disk for an Apple II. And data > disks are not much use without program disks. You needed to use a special disk in order to not include DOS on an Apple disk. It did free up a small bit of space. Apple's minimalist DOS was so small it was rarely worth the effort. Program loads didn't obliterate the resident portion of DOS. CP/M on the other hand took significant disk and RAM space for the DOS and command interpreter, portions of which were lost on program load and needed to be reloaded on return to the OS. Eric From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 8 23:23:25 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: from Louis Schulman at "Dec 8, 1 11:15:46 pm" Message-ID: <200112090523.VAA10636@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Of course, putting the DOS in the drive's ROM somewhat limits your choices > as to an OS. If you recall, with > an add-on card or two, an Apple could run DOS 3.3, ProDOS, CP/M, OS-9, > MS-DOS (needed an add-on drive as well) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's cheating, of course. I don't remember if PETs could be coerced into it, but C64s can run CP/M 2.2 just fine with an add-on Z80 cartridge. They just can't read the MFM disks, but neither can the Apple CP/M IIRC. There's nothing about having a sidecar intelligent peripheral that's per se limiting about what choices you have for an OS. Besides, if you really wanted a custom DOS on a Commodore drive, you can either load the DOS into drive RAM and have it execute there, or make the drive just a serial slave and feed data to the Commodore for processing. Most custom Commodore formats did the former. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Intel outside -- 6502 inside! ---------------------------------------------- From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Dec 8 23:07:03 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: barred from using MULTINET (sigh!) References: <3C126207.2070000@aurora.regenstrief.org> <002b01c1801d$fe1b6660$75469280@y5f3q8> <20011208143257.G1538@wintermute.arkham.ws> <3C126EB9.6040803@aurora.regenstrief.org> <004101c18024$02fe9020$75469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <3C12F177.2060406@aurora.regenstrief.org> Robert Schaefer wrote: >>Here is what you do: If you have a TK70 writable tape, you simply >>do SAVE EEPROM for those processors that you will update. Then >>switch to the processor with the prevailing EEPROM image and say >>UPDATE or UPDATE ALL ... can't remember off the bat here. Just make >>sure you upgrade them all to the most recent revision. >> > > I'd like to archive a copy of all (both?!?) the versions I have, just to > keep the bits from fading away. Only trouble is, I only have one, suspect, > TK70 tape. You can use TK50 tape as well. Just put them under a bulk-eraser first. It is said that the media is actually physically the same, just different labels. > If I had ole' Betsy booting into NetBSD, I'd just dd an image of > the tape and reuse it each time, but she don't, and I dunno if it's even > possible to make a bit-for-bit copy of anything under VMS. It's less difficult than you think. But I know just what you mean, VMS is just trying to be too clever :-). But you can do binary copies, just do this: $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/BLOCK=512/RECORD=512 MUC6: $ COPY MUC6: FILE.001 $ COPY MUC6: FILE.002 Now you don't know off hand what the block size on the tape is. I think, if you pick a block size smaller than the tape's, you will receive error messages. Experiment with it a little bit. Analogously, copy as many files as you can, for you don't know how many files the SAVE EEPROM command has written. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From fernande at internet1.net Sat Dec 8 23:10:55 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Apple DuoDisk (was Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff) References: <20011209034748.79050.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C12F25F.A4DD5513@internet1.net> 590-0114 is printed on the computer end of my cable. That end only has 19 pins..... didn't look at the other side. I didn't feel like pulling the computer out from the wall and digging up a screw driver to unhook it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Ethan Dicks wrote: > Anyone have an Apple part number for a DuoDisk cable? Will a 25-pin > straight-through work? > > -ethan From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Dec 8 23:21:53 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: VAX 8650 want a good home ... Message-ID: <3C12F4F1.9060602@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I know where there are probably several VAX 8600s and 8650s and a good deal more stuff. My plan is to organize a treck that runs from south-central US through mid-west to NY. So, if you live along the way and dream of some big iron, here is your chance. The thing would not be for the taking, but presumably $200-$400 (just a bit above scrap value) would be it. regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Dec 9 11:10:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Available: CDTV + extras In-Reply-To: <3C137187.CB7352B1@home.com> References: <3C137187.CB7352B1@home.com> Message-ID: I have available a Commodore CDTV with keyboard, both wired and ifra-red mice, and the standard remote control. I also have the black Roctec floppy for the CDTV, but we'd have to talk about that one. The keyboard isn't the standard CDTV keyboard that came with the Pro Pack, as it looks like it was painted black and it has the beige/white keys of the standard Amiga keyboards. It has the NTSC video card installed, which includes composite, S-video, and RF outputs. The only problem with this CDTV is that the CD-ROM isn't responding and the button is missing from the RESET button. Otherwise it boots Workbench off of an external floppy drive just fine. I just canceled the listing for this item on eBay as my original intention was to offer it here first but the list had been down. Because of the problems with the CD-ROM, I'm not looking to get much for it. In fact, if you want only the CDTV unit itself, I'd let it go for just shipping costs. I have another fully functional CDTV with Pro Pack and Genlock and don't need both. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allain at panix.com Sun Dec 9 15:16:24 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Seeking info and parts for MicroVax II BA123 References: <15378.61388.64863.670347@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <004901c180f6$c2143960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Anyone else wonder why they didn't have it outfitted with a {NIU}...? Maybe it was a secured device from the clean room, in that case you wouldn't want it networked. John A. And the agents will be over to see you shortly. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 9 04:22:32 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: Stacking Apple ][ stuff In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff" (Dec 8, 19:44) References: <20011209034428.54502.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10112091022.ZM12092@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 8, 19:44, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- John Lawson wrote: > > Aluminium = non-magnetic Iron = magnetic in terms of marginal > > shielding from external fields. > > Do para-magnetic cows go "mu"? Oh, no, the list has been back up for an hour and already we have bad puns :-) Well done, Jay! I saw the archive come back a while ago, and I wondered when you'd get the list done. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Dec 9 05:26:59 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: barred from using MULTINET (sigh!) In-Reply-To: <3C12F177.2060406@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <200112091126.fB9BQxf00554@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 9 Dec, Gunther Schadow wrote: >> Only trouble is, I only have one, suspect, TK70 tape. > You can use TK50 tape as well. Just put them under a bulk-eraser > first. It is said that the media is actually physically the same, > just different labels. AFAIK the media is different. Bulk erased TK50 tapes will work like TK70, but they will be (probably) not reliable. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Dec 9 17:13:06 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: barred from using MULTINET (sigh!) References: <200112091126.fB9BQxf00554@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C13F002.78B3E225@idirect.com> >jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > >On 9 Dec, Gunther Schadow wrote: > >> Only trouble is, I only have one, suspect, TK70 tape. > > You can use TK50 tape as well. Just put them under a bulk-eraser > > first. It is said that the media is actually physically the same, > > just different labels. > AFAIK the media is different. Bulk erased TK50 tapes will work like > TK70, but they will be (probably) not reliable. > tschuess, Jochen > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz Jerome Fine replies: Memorex used to have a web site that listed all the properties of DECTape (i.e. I for the TK50 with the name in brown) on the plastic holder and DECTape II (II i.e. for the TK70). The actual magnetic and physical properties for the tape were identical. The only difference that I could ever see between a DECTape and a DECTape II was that the name for the first was in BROWN and the name for the second was in BLUE. Now, there must be a very fancy colour recognition detector on the TK70 tape drive since I understand that after DECTape is used on a TK50, I have seen the TK70 tape drive automatically place the drive in WRITE PROTECT mode ASAP. Now I know that a bulk erase does confuse the TK70 over this aspect and that blank tapes which have never been in a TK50 are also OK in the TK70. (I won't belabour the point. Yes, I realize that the TK50 does write a tracking code of some kind on the tape which the TK70 is programmed to NOT overwrite. Typical DEC behaviour.) I have used the TK50 tapes (after a bulk erase) in a TK70 for several years now and have had no additional problems related the using a DECTape instead of a DECTape II in the TK70 tape drive. By the way, the two advantages of the TK70 is that: (a) It allows the tape to hold up to 4 times as must data. In my case, I can get 8.75 RT-11 partitions on a TK70 tape (I actually write only 8 full partitions) of 32 MBytes each using BUP in RT-11 (block size of 8192 bytes). Can anyone reading this suggest if going to a larger blocking factor might get me up to 9 full partitions? (b) The controller must have a buffer of some kind which holds the next block of data automatically. When I do a "/VERIFY:ONLY" operation in BUP under RT-11, the total time to process one partition of 32 MBytes is about 7.5 minutes - which is also about the same time to write that same 32 MBytes. I suspect that due to streaming considerations, the firmware on the TK70 keeps accepting data from at least the next record of data on the tape while the CPU is comparing the last n records from the hard disk drive. If the CPU then commands the controller to issue a request for the next record of data within a reasonable window of opportunity (not sure how long that might be - maybe even more than one record - I know if I was writing the firmware I would fill all the buffers that were available after doing double that number of sequential reads), then the streaming mode is not lost and the tape is kept in motion continually. Contrast this with about 19 minutes to write a partition on the TK50 and over a hour (I gave up before even one was complete) with a "/VERIFY:ONLY" operation. So I really do disagree that they DECTape II is any different from the DECTape except for the BLUE and BROWN labels - unless you consider the price that DEC charged to also be a difference. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From bqt at update.uu.se Sun Dec 9 11:43:13 2001 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:38 2005 Subject: VAX 8650 want a good home ... In-Reply-To: <3C12F4F1.9060602@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I know where there are probably several VAX 8600s and 8650s > and a good deal more stuff. My plan is to organize a treck > that runs from south-central US through mid-west to NY. So, > if you live along the way and dream of some big iron, here > is your chance. The thing would not be for the taking, but > presumably $200-$400 (just a bit above scrap value) would be > it. If you don't get any takers, perhaps I could convince you to ship some cards to Sweden, where we have an 8650 up and running at our computer club... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Sun Dec 9 12:26:51 2001 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: <200112090511.VAA04266@cyclops.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Dec 8, 2001 09:11:58 pm" Message-ID: <200112091826.KAA14884@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > They probably existed, but I don't recall ever seeing a non-bootable program disk for an Apple II. And data > > disks are not much use without program disks. > > You needed to use a special disk in order to not include DOS on an Apple ^^^^ I must have been tired. This should have said program. Eric > > disk. It did free up a small bit of space. Apple's minimalist DOS was so > small it was rarely worth the effort. Program loads didn't obliterate the > resident portion of DOS. > > CP/M on the other hand took significant disk and RAM space for the DOS and > command interpreter, portions of which were lost on program load and needed > to be reloaded on return to the OS. > > Eric From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 9 12:53:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) References: <200112091826.KAA14884@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <000b01c180e2$c26a5fc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Since the OS provided file and byte I/O system functions for applications to call, only the console command interpreter was reloaded on exit, and that only when the application was large. I guess this was an issue for CP/M systems that didn't have the full 64K of RAM, but I never worked with one that didn't for more than half a day. Vector and Northstar systems, and probably a few others that maintained a ROM BASIC may have had less RAM, but my own experience started and ended with 64K RAM under CP/M. On the Apple, the DOS had to be smaller, since there was only 48K of RAM unless the extra 16K was present. on an add-on card. Of course, when the 16K board was present, it was often so that CP/M could be used via the Z80 board. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) > > > They probably existed, but I don't recall ever seeing a non-bootable program disk for an Apple II. And data > > > disks are not much use without program disks. > > > > You needed to use a special disk in order to not include DOS on an Apple > ^^^^ I must have been tired. This should have > said program. > > Eric > > > > disk. It did free up a small bit of space. Apple's minimalist DOS was so > > small it was rarely worth the effort. Program loads didn't obliterate the > > resident portion of DOS. > > > > CP/M on the other hand took significant disk and RAM space for the DOS and > > command interpreter, portions of which were lost on program load and needed > > to be reloaded on return to the OS. > > > > Eric > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 9 12:38:20 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011209183820.52725.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Louis Schulman wrote: > On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:46:18 -0800 (PST), Ethan Dicks wrote: > > #I also liked the fact that the PET did not need boot disks. I saw that > #as a major source of problems watching my friends sort through piles of > #Apple floppies, looking for a DOS3.3 disk. > > They probably existed, but I don't recall ever seeing a non-bootable > program disk for an Apple II. And data > disks are not much use without program disks. I remember booting up on a master and running stuff from disks with just program files/data files in many cases (some games you _had_ to boot). For example, I don't think the Scott Adams text adventures came on a bootable disk from Adventure International - why should they pay for a license, after all. I did not ever own them for the Apple, just the PET (on cassette), so can't guarantee what the distribution looked like. > Of course, putting the DOS in the drive's ROM somewhat limits your > choices as to an OS. True, but back in those days, that wasn't a fatal limitation. Besides, the 8-bitters didn't really have a OS, more of a structured program loader. If all you need to do is read in executables and read/write data files, you don't need a full OS. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 9 12:56:32 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) References: <20011209183820.52725.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c180e3$383c6c20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There were a few that used "structured program loaders" as you call them, but CP/M certainly was more than that. I guess there were many things that fell between those limits. I occasionally saw an Apple system used with one drive for the boot diskette, one for the program, with overlays, and one or two for data. That required a second controller at the time, though ISTR that later controllers, e.g. Rana Systems' version supported four drives. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) > > --- Louis Schulman wrote: > > On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:46:18 -0800 (PST), Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > #I also liked the fact that the PET did not need boot disks. I saw that > > #as a major source of problems watching my friends sort through piles of > > #Apple floppies, looking for a DOS3.3 disk. > > > > They probably existed, but I don't recall ever seeing a non-bootable > > program disk for an Apple II. And data > > disks are not much use without program disks. > > I remember booting up on a master and running stuff from disks > with just program files/data files in many cases (some games > you _had_ to boot). For example, I don't think the Scott Adams > text adventures came on a bootable disk from Adventure International - > why should they pay for a license, after all. I did not ever own > them for the Apple, just the PET (on cassette), so can't guarantee > what the distribution looked like. > > > Of course, putting the DOS in the drive's ROM somewhat limits your > > choices as to an OS. > > True, but back in those days, that wasn't a fatal limitation. Besides, > the 8-bitters didn't really have a OS, more of a structured program > loader. If all you need to do is read in executables and read/write > data files, you don't need a full OS. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 9 13:16:31 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) References: <20011209183820.52725.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C13B88F.CE4AFC9C@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > True, but back in those days, that wasn't a fatal limitation. Besides, > the 8-bitters didn't really have a OS, more of a structured program > loader. If all you need to do is read in executables and read/write > data files, you don't need a full OS. In retospect I would say people expected BASIC to run rom. I/O was a feature only used to save your programs, maybe even data. The Apple,TRS-80?,Pets,C64's,Coco's,IBM-PC all come to mind. CP/M was the most common real OS, but lets not forget about 6800/6809 machines running FLEX or OS/9. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Dec 9 16:27:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: <3C13B88F.CE4AFC9C@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20011209183820.52725.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> <3C13B88F.CE4AFC9C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: >CP/M was the most common real OS, but lets not forget about >6800/6809 machines running FLEX or OS/9. And with both Uniflex and OS/9 you could have a multi-user, multitasking operating system on a 6809 in as little as 56k of RAM. FLEX runs nicely on this S/09 but I would still love to find the SWTPc version of OS/9 for it. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 15:18:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: <20011209183820.52725.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 9, 1 10:38:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 295 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/7be70d42/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Dec 9 18:30:07 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Dec 9, 1 09:18:48 pm" Message-ID: <200112100030.QAA12478@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > True, but back in those days, that wasn't a fatal limitation. Besides, > > the 8-bitters didn't really have a OS, more of a structured program > I'm not sure I'd call OS-9 a 'structured program loader'. It does most of > what I'd expect a real OS to do :-) And it runs on 8 bit machines. This reminds me of a question I never got answered, since I'm poor with 6809 stuff. Has OS-9 been ported to a 6502-based architecture? I wouldn't expect binary compatibility, of course, but since you always hear OS-9 in connection with CoCos and such, you'd think the CoCo had a monopoly on it. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my tarantula is getting neutered." ------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Dec 9 12:35:05 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A8E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Is there a hidden switch or fuse or something in there? That's what it looks > like... Failing that, someone got directions for checking out an 11/44 > power supply? Apples and Oranges, but Primes have an A/C distribution box in the back that the big round A/C plug goes into... this whole box removes from the chassis, and when disassembled, reveals a fuse inside along with something that looks like an EMI filter. The fuse is replaceable without soldering... ...but this is a Prime, not a PDP-11/44, but I'd look for something similar... -dq From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 13:28:46 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <13697572560.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 8, 1 06:13:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4044 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/c7b078de/attachment.ksh From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Dec 9 14:41:28 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <13697572560.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011209153952.00b18e78@mail.wincom.net> At 06:13 PM 12/8/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Same machine, new problem. ^_^ > >Whilst out in the garage playing with the 44 (which I still don't >have an OS for...), my kid sister and one of her friends come >out to the garage to smoke. (They're not allowed to smoke in the house.) >Anyway, while the 44 is running, her friend says, "Wow, that's loud!", >to which Monica replies "This one's louder!" and turns on the KS10... > >You know what's coming. And we had christmas tree packages and such all >over the garage, too, so navigating the garage in the dark was real fun... > >(For those who didn't see it coming, the garage breaker went...) > >Anyway, after resetting the breaker, waiting for the VAX to reboot, >checking that the KS10 was still in working order (I wouldn't be >mailing if the KS10 was broken. I'd be busy burying my sister. ^_^) >and putting back all the boxes I stepped on or knocked over, it >was discovered that the 11/44 no longer powered on. The power control >lights are on, the RX02 and SCSI disks inside the case work, but >the BA11 (Is that the right part?) will not turn on. When you turn the >switch on the front panel, nothing happens. No click, no fans, nothing. >The breaker on the back of the BA11 did not trip. I turned it off and >back on, nothing happened. I ran the AC power checks in the manual and >nothing happened. I checked the front-panel wiring was still connected, >it was. I pulled and reseated the front-panel control board in the >UNIBUS. Nada. It looks like it should be working, it doesn't smell burnt, >and I opened the top of the BA11 power supply and looked inside, and >it looks really scary (what, with the THIS VOLTAGE WILL KILL YOU stickers >and wires thick as my fingers and whatnot...) but it doesn't look burnt. > >Is there a hidden switch or fuse or something in there? That's what it looks >like... Failing that, someone got directions for checking out an 11/44 >power supply? >------- Respectfully suggest, use your kid sister to probe the voltage points. Cheers Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor, Ontario, Canada, N8Y3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From Diff at Mac.com Sun Dec 9 15:37:38 2001 From: Diff at Mac.com (Zach Malone) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011209153952.00b18e78@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <000c01c180f9$b997cd30$6501a8c0@laboffice> > Respectfully suggest, use your kid sister to probe the voltage points. Waiting for the inevitable McGuire "is she cute?". Zach From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 9 15:38:20 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: Re: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) (Zach Malone) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011209153952.00b18e78@mail.wincom.net> <000c01c180f9$b997cd30$6501a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <15379.55756.84560.499930@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 9, Zach Malone wrote: > > Respectfully suggest, use your kid sister to probe the voltage > points. > > Waiting for the inevitable McGuire "is she cute?". I try to reserve that for the rescue list...less "offendable" crowd over there. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 9 16:49:58 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <15379.55756.84560.499930@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) (Zach Malone) <5.1.0.14.0.20011209153952.00b18e78@mail.wincom.net> <000c01c180f9$b997cd30$6501a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: >On December 9, Zach Malone wrote: >> > Respectfully suggest, use your kid sister to probe the voltage >> points. >> >> Waiting for the inevitable McGuire "is she cute?". > > I try to reserve that for the rescue list...less "offendable" crowd >over there. ;) > > -Dave I'll have you know I'm offended by the accusation that we're easily offended around here! :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 9 17:20:52 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: Re: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) (Zane H. Healy) References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011209153952.00b18e78@mail.wincom.net> <000c01c180f9$b997cd30$6501a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <15379.61908.784561.641651@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 9, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> > Respectfully suggest, use your kid sister to probe the voltage > >> points. > >> > >> Waiting for the inevitable McGuire "is she cute?". > > > > I try to reserve that for the rescue list...less "offendable" crowd > >over there. ;) > > I'll have you know I'm offended by the accusation that we're easily > offended around here! :^) Well, by way of explanation... My trademark on the rescue list is to say "Is she cute?" for ANY mention of any sister, wife, female coworker, any female at all. Somehow I didn't think that'd go over very well on this list. In spite of the unbelievably long off-topic threads that occur here, this is definitely a much less "social" and more "down to business" mailing list. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Dec 9 18:22:16 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <15379.61908.784561.641651@phaduka.neurotica.com> from Dave McGuire at "Dec 9, 1 06:20:52 pm" Message-ID: <200112100022.QAA12804@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > > Respectfully suggest, use your kid sister to probe the voltage > > > > > points. > > > > Waiting for the inevitable McGuire "is she cute?". > > > I try to reserve that for the rescue list...less "offendable" crowd > > > over there. ;) > > I'll have you know I'm offended by the accusation that we're easily > > offended around here! :^) > Well, by way of explanation... My trademark on the rescue list is to > say "Is she cute?" for ANY mention of any sister, wife, female > coworker, any female at all. Okay, so, *is* she cute? ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It is the business of the future to be dangerous. -- Hawkwind -------------- From dmabry at mich.com Sun Dec 9 12:58:45 2001 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: iPDS questions References: Message-ID: <3C13B465.E9961992@mich.com> I have one of these machines and at one time used it extensively for developing. I'll try to answer your questions off the top of my head, hoping that the cobwebs aren't too thick. The iPDS was Intel's "Portable Development System" or "Personal Development System"...not sure which was the official name. It was 8085-based with 64k of ram. It also had a separate 8085 doing the keyboard scanning/debouncing, some I/O, and the crt function. There was an optional second processor board that you could install and it became a true dual processor machine. You could switch between the two processors with a hot key. Both processors could be independently compiling, editing, debugging, etc. It had four internal connectors for iSBX modules which were small daughter boards that Intel standardized for their Multibus. The iPDS and its operating system, ISIS-PDS, could boot from a bubble memory module on an iSBX module. I had mine set up so one processor would boot ISIS-PDS from the bubble and the other processor would boot CP/M from the diskette drive. I also installed some enhanced firmware into the processor that controlled the keyboard and crt that allowed type-ahead. Something that we take for granted for many years now, but it was a cool feature for the time. The plug in modules that went into the side of the computer allowed you to use a sort of mini in-circuit-emulator for 8051 and one for the 8088. Intel called them "emulation vehicles". As I recall, they were pretty nice products, only lacking a big trace memory from thier big brothers. EMV-51 and EMV-88. You could also plug into that side connector any of the EPROM programming modules that Intel sold for their stand-alone programmer called the iUPP (Universal Prom Programmer). For some reason, maybe because I don't have anything better to do (that's what I've been accused of), I have resurrected my iPDS recently and after a few fixes it now works. I probably have just about every piece of software that ever ran on it in the ISIS-PDS world. In the old days I wrote a BIOS for CP/M Plus for it, even utilizing a time-of-day clock iSBX module from Zendex so it automatically knew time and date. I've yet to replace the battery on that module to see if it still works. If anyone would like copies of any of the software I have for that machine, e-mail me privately (or on the list if you prefer) and I'll see what I can do for you. Oh yea, the diskettes were 80 track (96 tpi) double sided. I think the capacity was about 640k. I replaced the one full-height drive in mine with two half-height drives. Then I made the full height one into an external drive that plugged into the connector on the back. "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I'm sure glad to see the list is back up, I originally tried the following > message on Tuesday. I still don't know anything more about the system. > Unfortunatly it's been raining really hard around here since Tuesday, so > the system is still sitting at work, and I've not really been able to > examine it. > > Zane > > I'm still a little shocked. I just found a working iPDS system, complete > with documentation and some software. Unfortunatly I don't think a lot of > it is still readable. I did get the system to boot and pass all > diagnostics. > > I know nothing about these beasties, from looking at the doc's it's > obviously i8085 based with 64k RAM. It's got a single 5 1/4" floppy, and > it's in a case slightly smaller than a Kaypro II. In the area behind the > CRT is a storage area for two pods that each handle two different sizes of > PROMs, these plug into a hole in the right side of the case. > > What on earth filesystem are the floppies? Are any kind of software images > available to replace the dead floppies? Is there any software to read and > write to the floppies from MS-DOS? > > Basically the main thing I'm interested in is the systems ability to read > and write PROMs. I wouldn't mind being able to use this to support my DEC > hardware :^) > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 9 13:13:42 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: iPDS questions In-Reply-To: Re: iPDS questions (Dave Mabry) References: <3C13B465.E9961992@mich.com> Message-ID: <15379.47078.15228.57241@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 9, Dave Mabry wrote: > There was an optional second processor board that you could install > and it became a true dual processor machine. You could switch > between the two processors with a hot key. Both processors could be > independently compiling, editing, debugging, etc. Oh now THAT is cool. :-) Anybody know of any other systems to implement this sort of of functionality? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 9 13:52:25 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: iPDS questions In-Reply-To: <15379.47078.15228.57241@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: iPDS questions (Dave Mabry) <3C13B465.E9961992@mich.com> Message-ID: >On December 9, Dave Mabry wrote: >> There was an optional second processor board that you could install >> and it became a true dual processor machine. You could switch >> between the two processors with a hot key. Both processors could be >> independently compiling, editing, debugging, etc. > > Oh now THAT is cool. :-) Agreed, I can't wait to get my system home so I can start playing with it. > Anybody know of any other systems to implement this sort of of >functionality? The DEC Rainbow has two different CPU's in it, however, I don't know if you can run different stuff on each one at the same time. IIRC, it has a Z80 and a 8086 so you can run different software (sort of like the Commodore 128 running Commodore or CP/M software). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 9 14:05:31 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: iPDS questions In-Reply-To: Re: iPDS questions (Zane H. Healy) References: <3C13B465.E9961992@mich.com> Message-ID: <15379.50187.815150.150612@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 9, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Anybody know of any other systems to implement this sort of of > >functionality? > > The DEC Rainbow has two different CPU's in it, however, I don't know if you > can run different stuff on each one at the same time. IIRC, it has a Z80 > and a 8086 so you can run different software (sort of like the > Commodore 128 running Commodore or CP/M software). I thought that was an 8088...but as far as I'm aware you can't run them independently. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 15:23:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: iPDS questions In-Reply-To: <15379.50187.815150.150612@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Dec 9, 1 03:05:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 799 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/c0e93d06/attachment.ksh From mythtech at Mac.com Sun Dec 9 15:24:37 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: iPDS questions Message-ID: <200112092124.fB9LOdf07671@ns2.ezwind.net> >> There was an optional second processor board that you could install >> and it became a true dual processor machine. You could switch >> between the two processors with a hot key. Both processors could be >> independently compiling, editing, debugging, etc. > > Oh now THAT is cool. :-) > > Anybody know of any other systems to implement this sort of of >functionality? The same concept is used for the Mac's and their PC cards. The Intel chip is placed on a card, and it runs independant of the mac (but shares some features like drive controller, stuff like that). You swap between them with a hot key, and you can have things running on each (ie: start something heavy on the Mac, swap to windows/dos/whatever OS you are running, it is a true Intel compatible setup, and run things there.) Swap between as much as you want, each will continue to run, being blissfully unaware the other is there. Connection between the two is nice, you can have shared folders between them. The Mac will view it as a folder, the PC will view it as an additionally available drive. And you can cut and paste between the two. Very nice setup, too bad Apple abondoned them, and stopped upgrading the driver software, so they don't work too well past System 7.6.1 (they will work under OS 8 and 9, but some problems can arise) -chris From fcharp at rogers.com Sun Dec 9 13:10:27 2001 From: fcharp at rogers.com (Frederic Charpentier) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Console & cards Message-ID: <006601c180e5$299ebea0$6501010a@charp> Hi, I have sitting on my shelf a PDP 11/34 working unit rescued from the recyclers. The system was operational when decomissioned. Caveat: no power supply. So the pieces or the whole are up for grabs, shipping costs only. I thought they may be of interest to the right people, since most of the boards were original DEC. I also have a CD-ROM full of DEC maintenance and service documents for the PDP series. Any interest in that, ask for details. Be aware that I live in Ottawa, Canada. Here is the list of cards found in there. I am not sure it is complete, because I may have listed only the ones I could actually recognize. PDP 11/34 CARDS DIGITAL M7762 RL11 U RX01 floppy disk controller M7856 DL11-W U SLU and realtime clock M7859 U 11/34 programmable console interface M8256 RX211 U RX02 floppy disk controller M8265 KD11-EA U 11/34A processor data paths M8266 KD11-EA U 11/34A processor microcode module M8267 FP11-A U 11/34A floating point processor M9202 U UNIBUS connector, inverted (M9192+M9292 assembled M9202 1" apart with 2' cable) M9312 U Bootstrap and terminator module OTHER Dataram Corp U 256K DRAM board The system was obviously well cared for and was not even dusty. The console board is the one that includes an Intel 8008 processor. The system case and front-end are impeccable. I don't collect PDP equipment, but I hate to see a nice system go to the junkyard. At the same time, I need to make room for other masterpieces in peril. Cheers, Frederic Charpentier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/0d9f5fce/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 9 13:26:45 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Console & cards In-Reply-To: <006601c180e5$299ebea0$6501010a@charp> Message-ID: <20011209192645.55983.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> --- Frederic Charpentier wrote: > DIGITAL > > M7762 RL11 U RX01 floppy disk > controller RL01/RL02 controller... still a nice card to have. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From fcharp at rogers.com Sun Dec 9 14:16:47 2001 From: fcharp at rogers.com (Frederic Charpentier) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Console & cards Message-ID: <00dc01c180ee$6dd54630$6501010a@charp> All, Well, that was quick. The system is spoken for. Thanks to all for their interest. Regarding the DEC service CD: in fact, there are 2 CDs. They are full of manuals and service stuff, BUT they cover more recent equipment than the PDP. The last dates on the CD are 1994, which says that there is a lot of VAX-related material on the discs, but not much with regards to PDP. My apologies. Anyway, I already had a couple of requests for them, so I guess I'll be giving the ol'burner a run for its money. Cheers, Frederic Charpentier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/eadd348a/attachment.html From meltlet at fastmail.fm Sun Dec 9 15:14:52 2001 From: meltlet at fastmail.fm (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: SMC Monitor In-Reply-To: <00dc01c180ee$6dd54630$6501010a@charp> Message-ID: Hello peeps. I picked up a nice (almost-flat screen, chunky but hidden controls with the right 'feel' etc) Monitor from college a few days ago. A google for it's pinout comes up fruitless however. The text on the back reads: VGA MONO MONITOR Model: EM-1417 Hor: 31.5KHz/35.2KHz Ver: 45Hz-85Hz The text on the front is an "SMC" logo, rendered in precisely the same way as an IBM logo. Thin blue lines - how weird! The connector is circular, with 13 pins arranged in a square matrix fashion, unlike DIN which has angled pins. Asciification: /--------U--------\ / \ / . . . . \ / \ | . . . . | | | | . . . . | \ / \ . / \ / \------------------/ Crap, but you get the point. Is it usable with a today's 'standard' VGA HD15-type card? I'm thinking crisp console here... Alex From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 13:33:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple DuoDisk (was Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff) In-Reply-To: <20011209034748.79050.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 8, 1 07:47:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 355 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/6ac7182a/attachment.ksh From csmith at amdocs.com Sun Dec 9 14:59:59 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: CPT 9000 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF63@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi everybody, I remember somebody mentioning the CPT 9000 on this list recently. Since I just happen to be working on one, I thought I'd post this question here. Does anyone know where I can get some of the original software that might take advantage of the full screen-height? I have a copy of ventura publisher that was pre-installed, but I assume that its CPT9000 driver is corrupt. It works with the Herc ega driver, but with the CPT9000 driver, I just get some strange text-mode blocks. I also wonder whether anyone's tried Minix on it, and whether that might address the whole monitor? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 15:00:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 8" drives and PSUs. Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1161 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/0497d7d3/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 9 16:55:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 8" drives and PSUs. References: Message-ID: <001901c18104$a5a08fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:00 PM Subject: 8" drives and PSUs. > > > has two QumeTrak drives (242, I think -- full height 8"), one of the > > no-names has two Shugart 801 drives (single-sided only, I think), and the > > Yes, the 801s are single-sided only. 851s are the double-density > equivalents, almost. > I think you meant DOUBLE-SIDED, Tony, as the 801's are DD capable and always have been. > > > other no-name also has two QumeTrak drives. Unfortunately, the power supply > > in the no-name QumeTrak drive box literally had an LM723CN explode, breaking > > the chip in half, melting the socket, and fusing two pins to the socket. > > Is this an SMPSU? The 723 could be used to make most of the SMPSU control > circuitry (oscillator/chopper driver), but if the chopper shorts and/or > the current sense resistor in series with the chopper openes, then the > result is generally an exploding 723. So if it's an SMPSU, you want to > check all the primary side components, as usual. > The most-common linear supply used back in the 8"-drive days was the Power-One CP206, of which there were many copies, which used a 3 723's to control 3 pass transistors to regulate +5, +24, and -5/-12 (depending on jumpering). > > If it's a linear PSU, then I guess an open-circuit in the pass transistor > (b-c junction) could result in all the load current flowing via the 723 > or something nasty. That would probably make the chip explode as well, > although I've never actually had this fault. Again, check surrounding > components, particularly power transistors. > > -tony > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 17:39:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: 8" drives and PSUs. In-Reply-To: <001901c18104$a5a08fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 9, 1 03:55:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 461 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/85deda21/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 15:02:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: History of Computing exam question Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1351 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/5a7554dc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 15:05:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Bubble sorts have their place Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/db9cf3f8/attachment.ksh From rhblakeman at kih.net Sun Dec 9 16:22:19 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: IBM 3274-61C controller Message-ID: Well after some searching I find that this monster is a "controller" (I guess a terminal or network controller). Anyway I'm taking offers (shipping would be added to the offer unless you pick up in KY) for it - condition (other than good general external condition) is unknown, haven't even put a powr cord to it yet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/8c0e4f0c/attachment.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 9 17:06:33 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: IBM 3274-61C controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011209230633.85564.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > Well after some searching I find that this monster is a "controller" (I > guess a terminal or network controller). It's a PU Type 2 controller for things like 3270 tubes. I don't know the differences between models off the top of my head. To use it, you would need a PU Type 4 to put it on your SNA network. We used to emulate these with the COMBOARD-SNA. > Anyway I'm taking offers (shipping would be added to the offer unless you > pick up in KY) for it - Wish I'd known... I was in Louisville for the day last weekend. > condition (other than good general external > condition) is unknown, haven't even put a powr cord to it yet. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From vance at ikickass.org Sun Dec 9 18:12:53 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: IBM 3274-61C controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How big is it? (It's an SNA channel-attached terminal/printer controller.) Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:22:19 -0600 > From: Russ Blakeman > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: Classic computers message group > Subject: IBM 3274-61C controller > > Well after some searching I find that this monster is a "controller" (I > guess a terminal or network controller). > > Anyway I'm taking offers (shipping would be added to the offer unless you > pick up in KY) for it - condition (other than good general external > condition) is unknown, haven't even put a powr cord to it yet. > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Dec 9 16:43:03 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Ergo KB Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A92@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Chris- Whew, sorry I forgot about you, with the list being down, the depression nuked my recall. The S&H looks like $5, so $30 will take it. You can send those government agents with my funds to: The Estopinal Group attn: Doug Quebbeman 903 Spring Street Jeffersonville, IN 47130 Again, sorry about that! Regards, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Dec 9 17:45:18 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Ergo KB Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A93@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Chris- > > Whew, sorry I forgot about you, with the list > being down, the depression nuked my recall. Oops! Sorry, meant to press the "private send" button... again... -dq From ae at alum.mit.edu Sun Dec 9 17:23:13 2001 From: ae at alum.mit.edu (Andrew Egendorf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Remington Rand 409 (this already has been posted!) Message-ID: I am helping to gather original documents and/or artifacts concerning the Remington Rand 409-series computers for the Remington Rand 409-series museum being set up in Rowayton, CT. The models of interest are the 409-2 and the 409-2R. These are tube, punch-card, and programming panel machines from the 1950s. We are interested in documenting the location of all surviving artifacts, but also would like to acquire particularly interesting items by donation or purchase. We are looking specifically for anything related to the programming of these machines, such as the programming panels, programming manuals, or the programming jumper wires. Photographs or drawings of programming panels (originals or reproduced in third-party publications), with or without programs wired on them, also would be of interest. If you have any of the above, or have more general items such as Remington Rand brand computer tubes or punch cards, whether or not you wish to sell or donate them, please e-mail me at: egendorf@mit.edu. Thanks. From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 9 18:12:44 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: overclocking older processors Message-ID: <15379.65020.973843.406097@phaduka.neurotica.com> I was just reminded of when I overclocked an F11 chipset on a PDP-11/23 (KDF11-A) to 18MHz. It seems to me that it might be possible to overclock the 78032 on a KA630. Anybody ever done that? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Dec 9 18:14:36 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Anyone interested in a modem-design book? Message-ID: <20011209161436.A21569@eskimo.eskimo.com> The local Barnes and Noble has one copy of this book: The Theory and Practice of Modem Design John A.C. Bingham Format: Hardcover, 1st ed., 480pp. ISBN: 0471851086 Publisher: Wiley, John & Sons, Incorporated Pub. Date: November 1990 It's not cheap ($160) but it looked reasonably meaty and I doubt it's easy to find. If anyone wants it, let me know. -- Derek From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 9 18:27:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: <200112100030.QAA12478@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 9, 1 04:30:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1178 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/0d05e7fe/attachment.ksh From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Dec 9 18:48:44 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:39 2005 Subject: AM radio music In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3722599A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>; from dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com on Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:44:52AM -0500 References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD3722599A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20011209164844.A2596@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 10:44:52AM -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > If I remember correctly, there was a machine code program > > printed once to play "music" with a ZX80 using this method! > > Older. Dr. Dobb's Journal, Issue #2... 8080 code, played > Daisy and something else, modulating the S-100 INT signal. "Fool on the Hill"? _Hackers_ by Steven Levy describes how Steve Dompier wrote a music program for the Altair and transcribed "Fool on the Hill" and "Daisy". When he actually wanted to demonstrate it, he had to find an extension cord (the only good outlet was one floor down). Then two kids tripped over the extension cord, so he had to toggle in his program twice. "Daisy" was the unadvertised "encore" in the demo... it was also played and sung by Bell Labs' IBM 7094 in 1961 (not to mention HAL). See http://www.vortex.com/av.html#DAISY _Hackers_ gives the date as 1957 but that seems to be wrong (unless Bell Labs did the music separately from the singing). -- Derek From tordsson at c2i.net Mon Dec 10 11:28:48 2001 From: tordsson at c2i.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?BJ=D8RN_TORDSSON?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Toshiba T2200SX Message-ID: <000701c181a0$21dbfbe0$5e8ad9c1@y5m7f4> My Toshiba doesn't work! Is it any place out there where I can buy a new "head card"? Answer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/76b7bac6/attachment.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Sun Dec 9 18:51:59 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Seeking info and parts for MicroVax II BA123 In-Reply-To: <004901c180f6$c2143960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, John Allain wrote: > > Anyone else wonder why they didn't have it outfitted with a {NIU}...? > > Maybe it was a secured device from the clean room, > in that case you wouldn't want it networked. Might have been, but in that case I would have thought they would have removed its hard drives before getting rid of it. Maybe they just used it to run a bunch of terminals and a printer. -Toth From donm at cts.com Sun Dec 9 18:59:18 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: CPT 9000 In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF63@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Christopher Smith wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I remember somebody mentioning the CPT 9000 on this list recently. > > Since I just happen to be working on one, I thought I'd post this question > here. Are you sure that it is not a CPT 8000? That one I am a bit familiar with and find ample references by a google search. On 9000, I draw a blank. If it is truly 9000, what floppy disk size does it use? - don > Does anyone know where I can get some of the original software that might > take advantage of the full screen-height? I have a copy of ventura > publisher that was pre-installed, but I assume that its CPT9000 driver is > corrupt. It works with the Herc ega driver, but with the CPT9000 driver, I > just get some strange text-mode blocks. > > I also wonder whether anyone's tried Minix on it, and whether that might > address the whole monitor? > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 9 19:09:16 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: barred from using MULTINET (sigh!) In-Reply-To: Jerome Fine "Re: VAX 6400 booting saga: barred from using MULTINET (sigh!)" (Dec 9, 18:13) References: <200112091126.fB9BQxf00554@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C13F002.78B3E225@idirect.com> Message-ID: <10112100109.ZM12847@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 9, 18:13, Jerome Fine wrote: > Memorex used to have a web site that listed all the properties of > DECTape (i.e. I for the TK50 with the name in brown) on the plastic > holder and DECTape II (II i.e. for the TK70). ObNitPick (just to prove we're back in list mode :-)): I believe Jerome means CompacTape and CompacTape II. DECTape is the 3/4" stuff on the "funny little reels". Nominal capacities are 95MB for TK50 and 295MB for TK70. I suspect a larger blocking factor will indeed get you more partitions on the TK70. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Dec 9 19:03:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: <200112100030.QAA12478@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200112100030.QAA12478@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >This reminds me of a question I never got answered, since I'm poor with >6809 stuff. Has OS-9 been ported to a 6502-based architecture? I wouldn't >expect binary compatibility, of course, but since you always hear OS-9 >in connection with CoCos and such, you'd think the CoCo had a monopoly on it. The OS-9 FAQ lists it as supporting the following processors: 6809, 68xxx, PPC, X86, Intel SARM / IXP, MIPS, SPARC, Hitachi SH Specific machines which ran OS-9/6809 include: CoCo, SWTPc SCB-69, Gimix 6809, SSB Chieftain 6809, FHL TC-9, the FEBE, and a host of others, most of which are SS-50 bus machines. From the sound of the FAQ, it would appear that the SS-50 bus machines were the platform of choice for OS-9/6809. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fcharp at rogers.com Sun Dec 9 20:36:59 2001 From: fcharp at rogers.com (Frederic Charpentier) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Fw: PDP 11/34 Console & cards Message-ID: <00dd01c18123$8aa7b650$6501010a@charp> All, With regards to the DEC CDs, I will extract the titles of the manuals (about 200, I think) and post them. There are too many service bulletins and the titles are all numbered, so I won't have the time for that. For those who requested the CD's, I will let you know when they are ready -- some time this week. I am not sure that mounting images of the CDs on ftp is a good idea (I don't know what the copyright issues are there), but I don't mind making copies for those who want them. ...oh -- and yes, I will let you know about the stuff that I would like to get pretty soon... :-) Cheers, Frederic Charpentier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/cca44f32/attachment.html From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 9 21:27:51 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Tony Duell > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) OTOH, audio gear seems to be very susceptible to my smoke, and I have to clean all the switches and pots every three months or so. Glen 0/0 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 10 09:40:35 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A9A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > From: Tony Duell > > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) > > OTOH, audio gear seems to be very susceptible to my smoke, and I have to > clean all the switches and pots every three months or so. The early CDC disk drives (like many others I'm sure) has so much room between platters you could stick your hand in there, and enough room between the flying heads and the platter that neither smoke nor dust was a problem. One CDC engineer remarked to me about how they usually be smoking a cigarette while they were *polishing* the platters (yes, I know about the stiction cure joke, Lemon Pledge and all that). Which reminds me of an MPEG that Elsa included with the Winner3000 drivers... you watch this video, you'll think it's cigarettes that they're selling... -dq From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 10 11:00:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A9A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <000f01c1819c$28687460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a convert, as they say ... I don't know about truly Classic (pre-Apple/pre-CP/M) hardware in this context, but from my experience with current hardware, i.e. PC's with a fan at the back of the PSU that exhausts air that's drawn in through the front-loading peripherals, I'd make the following comment. I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from accumulation of dirt on the optic. In those few cases where (a) I knew the user to be a frequent smoker, and (b) where I could smell the smoke on the innards of the drive, I normally found that I couldn't clean the optic with anything I dared put near the quite soluble plastics used in the drive and specifically in the laser pickup. Likewise, I often have seen and smelled what was obviously tabacco smoke residue on floppy disk innards. Those were easily cleaned, with the exception of the heads, which in the cases where they were visibly stained (and it's not easy to look at the heads, but, once they're visible, the damage is easy to see) with what appeared to be smoke residue, and that generally has rendered the drives unreliable. The environment in which I most frequently encountered this problem was a machine shop where things were none too clean anyway, but the mousepad showed plenty of evidence of a cigarette being held 2" in front of the end of the box where the CDROM and FDD resided. It was no wonder the CDROM and FDD smelled like a very dirty ashtray. This is largely the product of the stupid, Stupid, STUPID practice of putting the fan in the PSU such that it exhausts the system in the way in which it does. I routinely turn the fan around, and, in fact, on at least two of my boxes, have put a second fan outside the PSU, with a filter between the two. This has quite remarkably reduced the accumulation of dirt in the PSU as in the rest of the box. It does make for a bit more noise, as the two fans tend to "beat" due to the difference in speed. I once made a crude effort to measure the temperature effect of doing this, and found the results favorable, since the reduced presence of dirt meant freer airflow against the surfaces of the IC's that required cooling in the box. I like to believe the conclusion I drew was correct, but it was what I expected to find, so take it for what it's worth. Tobacco smoke is VERY sticky and VERY pervasive, and should be kept out of computer hardware, even if only because it's so nasty and hard to remove. This can be accomplished, if you don't want to turn around your PSU fan, by taping a piece of paper towel to the front of your hardware so it requires the air to flow THROUGH the paper towel, rather than going, unimpeded, through your front-loading peripherals. That's probably adequate. Some cases once had a sliding cover that protected these peripherals from the hazard of smoke and other airborne pollutants. The air will still get into your computer, since its box isn't air-tight, but at least it won't flow through the devices that would be damaged most by it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:40 AM Subject: RE: Smoking around computers > > > From: Tony Duell > > > > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! > > > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) > > > > OTOH, audio gear seems to be very susceptible to my smoke, and I have to > > clean all the switches and pots every three months or so. > > The early CDC disk drives (like many others I'm sure) has so > much room between platters you could stick your hand in there, > and enough room between the flying heads and the platter that > neither smoke nor dust was a problem. One CDC engineer remarked > to me about how they usually be smoking a cigarette while they > were *polishing* the platters (yes, I know about the stiction > cure joke, Lemon Pledge and all that). Which reminds me of an > MPEG that Elsa included with the Winner3000 drivers... you > watch this video, you'll think it's cigarettes that they're > selling... > > -dq > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 10 11:26:43 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <000f01c1819c$28687460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a > convert, as they say ... > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Mon Dec 10 09:49:25 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011210104846.00b04880@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 10:27 PM 12/9/01 -0500, you wrote: >I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and >I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that >computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) You have been very lucky. Over the years I have seen many problems caused by just that. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale I accept PayPal To subscribe to automatic updates send a blank e-mail to: online-garage-sale-subscribe@yahoogroups.com From fcharp at rogers.com Sun Dec 9 21:38:37 2001 From: fcharp at rogers.com (Frederic Charpentier) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: DEC Support & Service CDs (was PDP 11/34 Console & cards) Message-ID: <01a601c1812c$2741eaa0$6501010a@charp> Okay, so I dug a tad deeper into the DEC service CD-ROMs and found a lot there. In terms of manuals, the 2 CDs include no less than... 852 (!) PDF-encoded manuals -- yes, that's 525 on one CD and the balance on the other. Remember the VAX technical library room? Ours was covered with orange manuals wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling.. Well I have the feeling that these 2 disks contain all of those and then some. The manuals cover everything from operator's manuals to CPU programmers reference, diagrams, bulletins. DECserver, Alpha desktops, storage units. And that's just for manuals. The disks also contain software libraries that include bios, drivers, etc... The index files alone take a fair bit of room. I thought for a minute that I could post them here, but I gave up as soon as I saw the size of them. So.... If you are interested in the index files, email me. I will have a run of disks made. NOT FOR SALE, only giveaways. I'll seed 5 or 10 of those who want it, and they can take it from there and pay forward by obliging other people. Cheers and all that sort of things, Frederic Charpentier P.S.: now, if only this kind of documentation archive existed for S-100 systems... Almost makes you want to take up VAX systems. Then again, I'd probably need to somewhat upgrade my home electrical switchbox. Or I could move next to a nuclear power plant... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011209/dba80166/attachment.html From dittman at dittman.net Mon Dec 10 10:56:27 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: DEC Support & Service CDs (was PDP 11/34 Console & cards) In-Reply-To: <01a601c1812c$2741eaa0$6501010a@charp> from "Frederic Charpentier" at Dec 09, 2001 10:38:37 PM Message-ID: <200112101656.fBAGuRA21123@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Okay, so I dug a tad deeper into the DEC service CD-ROMs and found a lot = > there. > In terms of manuals, the 2 CDs include no less than... 852 (!) = > PDF-encoded manuals -- yes, that's 525 on one CD and the balance on the = > other. Remember the VAX technical library room? Ours was covered with = > orange manuals wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling.. Well I have the feeling = > that these 2 disks contain all of those and then some. The manuals cover = > everything from operator's manuals to CPU programmers reference, = > diagrams, bulletins. DECserver, Alpha desktops, storage units. And = > that's just for manuals. The disks also contain software libraries that = > include bios, drivers, etc... > The index files alone take a fair bit of room. I thought for a minute = > that I could post them here, but I gave up as soon as I saw the size of = > them. > > So.... If you are interested in the index files, email me. I will have a = > run of disks made. NOT FOR SALE, only giveaways. I'll seed 5 or 10 of = > those who want it, and they can take it from there and pay forward by = > obliging other people. I'd love a set of the CDs, and I am willing to make copies to pass on as well. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From hansp at aconit.org Mon Dec 10 12:15:54 2001 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: DEC Support & Service CDs (was PDP 11/34 Console & cards) References: <01a601c1812c$2741eaa0$6501010a@charp> Message-ID: <3C14FBDA.8060403@aconit.org> Frederic Charpentier wrote: > Okay, so I dug a tad deeper into the DEC service CD-ROMs and found a lot > there. > > In terms of manuals, the 2 CDs include no less than... 852 (!) > PDF-encoded manuals -- yes, that's 525 on one CD and the balance on the > other. Remember the VAX technical library room? Ours was covered with > orange manuals wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling.. Well I have the feeling > that these 2 disks contain all of those and then some. The manuals cover > everything from operator's manuals to CPU programmers reference, > diagrams, bulletins. DECserver, Alpha desktops, storage units. And > that's just for manuals. The disks also contain software libraries that > include bios, drivers, etc... > > So.... If you are interested in the index files, email me. I will have a > run of disks made. NOT FOR SALE, only giveaways. I'll seed 5 or 10 of > those who want it, and they can take it from there and pay forward > by obliging other people. I'd be interestted for our collection here in France. I could send you a US$ check for mailing etc. We too can copy for others in Europe. Regards, -- hbp From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 9 21:42:06 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Rescue list? Message-ID: <20011210041659.NYND8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Dave McGuire > Well, by way of explanation... My trademark on the rescue list is to > say "Is she cute?" for ANY mention of any sister, wife, female > coworker, any female at all. What rescue list? Glen 0/0 From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Mon Dec 10 10:09:17 2001 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Rescue list? Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146DED@BUSH02> What rescue list? For all the rest of us who were going to ask but didn't want to look stupid, I thank you. 8^)= Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service. From LFessen106 at aol.com Mon Dec 10 10:27:39 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Rescue list? Message-ID: <67.1e4f0ff9.29463c7b@aol.com> In a message dated 12/10/01 11:22:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, Lee.Davison@merlincommunications.com writes: > > > > > > > What rescue list? > > For all the rest of us who were going to ask but didn't want > to look stupid, I thank you. 8^)= > > He is most likely speaking of the SunRescue list. You can find it at http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue Come and join the fun :-) -Linc. In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/61b41101/attachment.html From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 10 10:56:52 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Rescue list? Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A9D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > What rescue list? > > For all the rest of us who were going to ask but didn't want > to look stupid, I thank you. 8^)= I *think* he's referring to a human rescue list, i.e. paramedics, people who fly helicopters, rappel down the sides of cliffs, looking for lost or injured people. -dq From fcharp at rogers.com Sun Dec 9 21:45:27 2001 From: fcharp at rogers.com (Frederic Charpentier) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 Console & cards References: <20011209192645.55983.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01ba01c1812d$1b5807f0$6501010a@charp> Ethan, Sorry about the PDP stuff, but it's gone. Maybe I did not go about this the right way... I'll keep my eyes peeled. Ottawa is an administrative capital and the government is dumping a lot of DEC stuff. I'll make sure to post further finds. Cheers, Frederic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: Re: PDP 11/34 Console & cards > > --- Frederic Charpentier wrote: > > DIGITAL > > > > M7762 RL11 U RX01 floppy disk > > controller > > RL01/RL02 controller... still a nice card to have. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 9 22:00:08 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: H89 docs/help requested Message-ID: <20011210041707.NYNZ8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> As previously posted, the H89 which Joe Rigdon kindly gave me has a problem with the keyboard input: sometimes it works properly, but sometimes double characters or wrong characters are produced. This behavior can change while using the machine -- one moment it's okay, the next moment I get wrong or double characters. Anyone have a set of docs they can reproduce for me? Or any experience with the keyboard controller circuitry on this machine? TIA -- Glen 0/0 From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Dec 10 10:16:57 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: H89 docs/help requested In-Reply-To: <20011210041707.NYNZ8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: I'm sitting in front of a large stack of boxes full of H-89 docs & software. I'll look through it and try to find my technical manuals, and if I succeed, I can send you a physical copy. on 12/9/01 10:00 PM, Glen Goodwin at acme_ent@bellsouth.net wrote: > As previously posted, the H89 which Joe Rigdon kindly gave me has a problem > with the keyboard input: sometimes it works properly, but sometimes double > characters or wrong characters are produced. This behavior can change > while using the machine -- one moment it's okay, the next moment I get > wrong or double characters. > > Anyone have a set of docs they can reproduce for me? Or any experience > with the keyboard controller circuitry on this machine? > > TIA -- > > Glen > 0/0 > From ernestls at attbi.com Mon Dec 10 10:38:46 2001 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Triumph-adler Alphatronic PC questions In-Reply-To: <20011210041707.NYNZ8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: I am looking for the system disks for an Alphatronic PC -CP/M I think. I would really appreciate it if someone could send me disk images of these disks, or I could pay you for shipping if you don't mind mailing them to me. Also, I am missing the floppy drive ribbon cables that connect the F1 and F2 drives. There is a custom cable shop near me that can make the cables but I'm not sure if there are any cross-over wires or other unusual traits to these cables. Are they straight through or not? Any information on that would be great. Thanks. Ernest ernestls@attbi.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 10 11:33:14 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <15379.61908.784561.641651@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011209153952.00b18e78@mail.wincom.net> <000c01c180f9$b997cd30$6501a8c0@laboffice> <15379.61908.784561.641651@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011210113314.D25923@mrbill.net> On Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 06:20:52PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > Well, by way of explanation... My trademark on the rescue list is to > say "Is she cute?" for ANY mention of any sister, wife, female > coworker, any female at all. Somehow I didn't think that'd go over > very well on this list. In spite of the unbelievably long off-topic > threads that occur here, this is definitely a much less "social" and > more "down to business" mailing list. ;) Actually, its "is she cute"? followed by "does she have a sister?" 8-) Bill (admin of the sunrescue list, www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue) -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Dec 10 12:02:53 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA61501467396@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Not a bad truck... Let's see, 96 S-10? 2WD, right? And does it really _use_ the cowl-induction hood scoop? ;) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Daniel A. Seagraves [mailto:DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com] ! Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:30 PM ! To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) ! ! ! [Is she cute?] ! ! I dunno. She's my sister. She's more of a pain in the ass ! than anything. ^_^ ! http://www.lunar-tokyo.net/pictures/ she's in there somewheres. ! ! ------- ! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 10 12:14:55 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AA2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 06:20:52PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Well, by way of explanation... My trademark on the rescue list is to > > say "Is she cute?" for ANY mention of any sister, wife, female > > coworker, any female at all. Somehow I didn't think that'd go over > > very well on this list. In spite of the unbelievably long off-topic > > threads that occur here, this is definitely a much less "social" and > > more "down to business" mailing list. ;) > > Actually, its "is she cute"? followed by "does she have a > sister?" 8-) > > Bill (admin of the sunrescue list, > www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue) Suns got their own rescue list! (with a nod to Johnny Hart)... -dq From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Mon Dec 10 04:14:56 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: VAX 8650 want a good home ... Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706629A@exc-reo1> > Well, if you tell us what you're looking for, we might just > find it. Docs & prints would be nice :-) Must be one of the few major machines for which virtually nothing seems to be available on the net! Antonio From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 10 09:19:46 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF68@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > On December 8, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > testing > > testing 1..2..3... > KA410-A V1.2 > F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1_.. ?DKA0... Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 10 09:25:53 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Need "PC Mouse" driver for PCjr .. Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF69@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: UberTechnoid@home.com [mailto:UberTechnoid@home.com] > The new optical mice rock hard core man. I can't believe it, but now > there is a mouse that will track on your ASS. I play Isn't that uncomfortable? I'd rather have a special hard-to-find mouse-pad. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 10 09:35:25 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF6B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Louis Schulman [mailto:louiss@gate.net] > They probably existed, but I don't recall ever seeing a > non-bootable program disk for an Apple II. And data > disks are not much use without program disks. Well, there was a funny little program that would allow you to "remove DOS from a disk to save space" or the like. I assume this would produce just such a non-bootable disk. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Dec 10 09:35:48 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 6000 Message-ID: I am very happy today - I'm finally getting a TRS-80 Model 6000! Anyway I was wondering if anyone has any software for it (it runs Xenix, which it has), or the hardware manual, as I am only getting the Xenix manuals. And if anyone has one of those neat little TRS-80 DT-1 terminals for it, I'd love that. From bills at adrenaline.com Mon Dec 10 09:43:30 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Model 33 Teletypes acquired Message-ID: Yesterday morning, I drove up into the mountains of West Virginia and got an ASR-33 and a KSR-33 with a few spare parts and a five inch stack of docs. I haven't had the time to do anything with them yet, probably won't get to play much until Christmas week. Anyway, the metal on both machines seems to be in good shape, but the plastic leaves something to be desired. The ASR is mostly just dirty, but there is a crack at the left rear screw position. The KSR is cleaner as it was used less, but it was stored improperly in a box and dropped or something and the plastic upper case (the gray case, not the white/yellow cover over the carriage) is broken into several pieces. So does anybody have recommendations as to glue or other solutions? Is someone sitting on a big stock of spare upper shells? Thanks, Bill From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 10 10:27:55 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: CPT 9000 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF6E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > Are you sure that it is not a CPT 8000? That one I am a bit familiar > with and find ample references by a google search. On 9000, I draw a > blank. Well, it says 9000 on the front, I believe. :) > If it is truly 9000, what floppy disk size does it use? It was shipped, I think, with both 3.5 and 5.25" high-density floppy drives. I just found another 3.5" floppy that works in it on Saturday night. I got no manuals, no software (other than what was extremely messed up and left on the drive), and a disassembled machine. The machine is now in more-or-less good shape. I need to pick the tumbler keyboard lock. For now I've just disconnected it. (Or find a key that works) I should also replace the power adaptor I've got plugged into the floppy drive, since it's also got a signal cable adaptor that's not being used. :) As I was saying, the installation was pretty botched by the time I got it. It boots -- thinks it runs MS-DOS 3.2 -- and that's really about it. I believe the CPU was intel 286. It has a "Tall Tree Systems" JRAM card and JLaser 3 (I think) daughterboard. a 20MB MFM (or RLL?) 3.5" half-height hard disk. (Miniscribe, I believe) It also has (...and this is the reason I rescued it, even though it is an intel machine) a really odd graphics adaptor with a 15-pin (two row D-shaped) connector that drives a full-page monochrome (white) EGA monitor. That's pretty much all I know about it. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Dec 10 10:43:59 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: More DEC cards Availiable Incl. Core Message-ID: Since I have had some requests from dealers I went through my storage locker and pulled out most of the rest of my DEC cards. The highlight seems to be some complete core memory sets. There are a couple of Floating Point cards, a GPIB, 11/02 & 11/23 CPUs and Drive controllers. Please contact me off list at whoagiii@aol.com with offers or if you have questions. I am traveling this week so it may take me a day or two to answer. Paxton Astoria Oregon Here is the list: DEC cards - QBUS 1 M3104 DHV11-A Quad 8-LINE ASYNC MUX, DMA (DHV11) 2 M7264 KD11-F, 11-03 Processor wi 4K word MOS RAM **** 2 M7264 CB KD11-F, 11-03 Processor wi 4K word MOS RAM **** 1 M7264 YC KD11-H, 11-03 Processor wi 0K word RAM, Rev F or later **** 13 M7270 KD11-HA, LSI-11/2 CPU, 16-bit **** 1 M7546 TQK50-AA, TMSCP controller for TK50 tape unit 1 M7680 RK05 2 M7800 DL11, Async transmitter & receiver, 110-2400 baud, 2 M7800 YA DL11, M7800 without EIA chips, current loop only 2 M7856 DL11-W, RS-232 SLU & realtime clock option 3 M7940 DLV11, Serial Line Unit (SLU, Async) 8 M7941 DRV11, 16 Bit Parallel Line Unit 1 M7944 MSV11-B, 4-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM (external refresh) 2 M7946 RXV11, RX01 8" floppy disk controller 1 M8013 RLV11, RL01 disk controller, 1 of 2, Wi BC06-R Cable 1 M8017 DLV11-E, Single-line async control module 2 M8017 AA DLV11-E, Single-line async control module 2 M8028 DLV11-F, Async interface EIA/20mA, error flags, break 1 M8029 RXV21, RX02 floppy disk controller, 18-bit DMA only. 11 M8043 DLV11-M, 4-Line Asynchronous Interface 1 M8044 CB MSV11-DC, 16-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 10 M8044 DB MSV11-DD, 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 2 M8044 DC MSV11-DD, 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 1 M8044 DE MSV11-DD, 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 1 M8044 DK MSV11-DD, 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM 1 M8044 EB 1 M8044 EM 1 M8045 DC MSV11-ED, 32-Kword 18-bit MOS RAM 3 M8045 DH MSV11-ED, 32-Kword 18-bit MOS RAM 1 M8045 DL MSV11-ED, 32-Kword 18-bit MOS RAM 1 M8059 FF MSV11-LF, 64-Kword MOS RAM, single voltage **** 1 M8059 KC MSV11-LK, 128-Kword MOS RAM, single voltage 2 M8059 KP MSV11-LK, 128-Kword MOS RAM, single voltage 3 M8186 KDF11, DUAL HEIGHT CPU,Q-BU **** 1 M8186 KDF11, DUAL HEIGHT CPU,Q-BUS CABLED TO **** 1 M8188 FPF-11, FLOATING POINT PROCESSOR Quad **** 1 M8639 YA RQDX1, RD51/52 & RX50 MFM Disk control module 2 M8950 TM78,READ CHANNEL 2 M8958 TM78 TRANSLATOR 1 M8960 8085 CPU Quad **** 1 M8973 8085 EXTENDED MEMORY,DBL8.5 **** 2 M9400 YE REV11-E, Headers and 250-ohm terminators (18-bit bus only) 2 M9404 Q22 bus cable connector, no terminators 1 W987A Quad Extender 1 W984A Dual Extender 1 H3001 Wi Plate Single Line RS232 Interface No cable 1 H3271 Staggered Turnaround Test Connector (DZ11[-x]) OTHER QBUS CARDS 1 Heathkit Serial I/O H-11-5 With cable to strange square plug Date 011879 **** 1 National Instruments GPIB11-1 Rev A Quad **** 2 Plessey 701065-100H Single Serial Mil spec connectors Quad 1 Scientific Micro Systems FD0100I L/E-HIP 7939 Floppy Controller Quad **** 2 135 Q-Bus Digitizer Inf Rev C White handles Tek? Quad 1 Dilog DQ342 Rev C Tape controller emulates TS11/TU80,TSV05 NICE Quad **** 1 Dilog MQ696 Rev D 20 Mhz ESDI, FLOPPY, MSCP **** 1 Emulex TC1510201-SXC .25 Cassette Tape controller, wi Cable 1 Emulex TC1510201-SXD .25 Cassette Tape Controller, wi cable 1 Tektronix CP4100/IEEE 488 INTERFACE 1/83 Quad **** 1 Datasystems DLP-11 Quad Line Printer I/F 1 Dataram Assy. 62404 Rev D 8704 8 Meg Ram Quad 1 MM Memory 20-4930-01 Rev B 4 Meg Ram Quad 1 Ikonas IKQ 85/32-301-017-10A, BROKE WHITE TABS Quad BAR CODES *3130101710AL*, *W0304701* & *11966* 1 MDB MDB-1710 Prototype section board Quad **** 1 MDB MDB-11WWB Rev C Prototype card Quad **** 4 MDB MLSI-DLV11 #40320 Serial cards 1 Data Systems Design (DSD) A4432-3 LSI-11 1978 1 Intel 05-0848-006 LSI-11 Memory card with only 5 chips socketed **** 1 Digital Pathways RMA-128 Memory card with 32 64K chips 2 Motorola Memory Systems MMS122N3032 Memory card with Gold piggy back 32K 4132 DRam chips 1 Rev B (not working), 1 Rev C **** 1 Datafusion OSB11-A-01 Two Cards Dual Width Termination 1 Data Translation EPO43 Rev F 11/82 wi DT15150 DC/DC Converter **** 1 Data Translation DT2764-SE EPO50 Rev H 06/82 A to D Board 1 Netcom NDLV-11 Serial Card 1 2501 2045 Army Green handles Seiko mfg Jumper two card set 1 4711 00 Army Green handles A/D Sample Hold 2501-4711-00/4 Wi Datel Ultra Fast A/D Converter ADC-EH12B3 Missing 2 TTL chips 1 4990 Army Green handles 1923-4990/1 wi ADC DAC1207, 05/64 OEM sticker Single width card. DEC CORE MEMORY **** 4 G110 Core Memory set for PDP 11/40 **** 4 G231 16K XY Selection, Current source, Address Latch,8K Decode. **** 3 H214 Core 8KX16 8K 16 bit **** 1 H215 Core 8KX18 (375) 8K 18 bit **** 2 sets H222A MM11-DP 16KX18 (375) 16K per set, unsure of the sys **** G652 **** MASSBUS MASSBUS MASSBUS 2 M5903 DRIVE TRANCEIVER 2 M5922 MASS BUS TRANSCEIVER, PORT A, RM03 Unusual cards 6 wide - Cannot tell if Uni or Q 1 ? SDLC PCB127 Rev C 2 ? Q BUS SYS PCB136 Rev B Appears to be a test board. Has TST/NOR, HIT/RUN & RESTART switches. Also has LEDs for TEST NO., CODE, STATUS wi LSB & MSB. DEC Cards that are 4 wide but not able to tell if Uni or Qbus 1 M3110 PROTOCOL ASSIST #1 SPEC CHAR 1 M3111 PROTOCOL ASSIST #2 SPEC CHAR 2 M7364 2 M7365 1 M7366 Unibus Unibus Unibus 1 M3105 DHU11-A, 16-LN ASYNC MUX,DMA 3 M7133 KDF11-UA, 11/24 CPU, LINE CLOCK, 2 SER 1 M7294 RH11 MASSBUS DATA BUFFER & CONTROL 1 M7295 RH11-A, BUS CONTROL 3 M7485 YA UDA50-A two with both jumper cables, 3 M7486 UDA52, UDA SI one with one jumper cable 2 70-18455-6K Red cable sets for above 5 M7819 DZ11, 8-LINE DBL BUF ASYNC EIA WI MODEM CONTROL 7 M7819 00 DZ11, 8-LINE DBL BUF ASYNC EIA WI MODEM CONTROL 1 M7867 DUP11-DA, SDLC or DDCMP Sync Interface 1 M7891 DK 128-Kword 18-bit parity MOS memory 1 M7900 RK611, RK06/07 Unibus Interface 1 M7901 RK611, RK06/07 Register Module, Hex 1 M7902 RK611, RK06/07 Control Module, Hex 1 M7903 RK611, RK06/07 Data Module, Hex 1 M792 YL RX11 floppy loader 3 M8265 KD11-EA, 11/34A data paths module 2 M8266 KD11-EA, 11/34A control module 1 M8267 FP11-A, 11/34A Floating Point **** 1 M8743 AP MDECS-AA, 512-Kbyte ECC RAM 5 M9202 UNIBUS connector, inverted M9192-M9292, 1"APART W/2'C 1 70-20956-10 Cable set Other Mfg. UNIBUS 1 Emulex CS2110203/F1E 16 Ch RS-232 Communications controller 1 Emulex CS2110203/F2B 16 Ch RS-232 Communications controller 1 Western Peripherals TC131 Tape Controller 1 Plessey Peripherals 701840-101J 2-50 pin & 1-26 pin connectors 1 Intergraph PCB360 Rev A Ethernet & 1 Meg Ram 1 M&S Computing PCB209 Rev B Vector Data Generator END END END From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 10 12:01:05 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Moving heavy equipment Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20011210115656.06e15008@pc> Back in September I wrote: >I've got a lead on a full and working electron microscope. >It's on-topic because it's old and has some sort of >computerized digitizing unit. :-) >I've lined up a big Diesel stake (flat-bed) truck. >It'll be about a 2-3 hour drive. We've got straps, >boards, tarps. I'm most concerned about getting it >*off* the truck and into my office or home basement. >Any other thoughts from the group? An update: it's in my garage now. The x-ray spectrometer is a 11/23-based system running custom apps over RT-11. The SEM has an 8085-based system for automating various aspects of the electron microscope column. It's an AMRAY 1610T, circa 1983: http://www.threedee.com/jmosn/microscopes/amray/index.html Even at 1,200 pounds, the column rolled easily on a pallet jack, off the loading dock ramp and onto the truck. To get it all off the truck, the farmer next-door helped with his power-tilt front-loader bucket. The next trick will be to levitate it down the stairs and into the basement. If I can get it all back together again and happy, it'll magnify down to about 50,000 x. - John From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 10 12:22:13 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: Re: Rescue list? (LFessen106@aol.com) References: <67.1e4f0ff9.29463c7b@aol.com> Message-ID: <15380.64853.294164.407701@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 10, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > He is most likely speaking of the SunRescue list. You can find it at > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue > Come and join the fun :-) I think Bill no longer considers it really Sun-specific, Linc.. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 10 12:26:59 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Availability of DSP56K chips In-Reply-To: Availability of DSP56K chips (Carlos Murillo) References: <3.0.2.32.20011210124142.00ee08e4@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <15380.65139.363733.96076@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 10, Carlos Murillo wrote: > So my question to the list is: do you know where to get dsp56001A > chips? Or better yet, do you have some that you don't plan to use? I found a small pile of them on eBay about a year ago. I don't recall how much I paid, but I remember thinking it was pretty cheap. I may have some left...I will dig for them when I get over to my new place. Ping me off-list if you don't hear from me by tomorrow. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Dec 10 10:25:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> References: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <01Dec10.134636est.119223@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and >I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that >computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) It certainly could turn beige cases some nasty yellow colors though Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 10 12:22:27 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AA3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a > > convert, as they say ... > > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > > D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. One for to rot, One for the crows, One for the farmer, and one for the keyboards rows? -dq From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Mon Dec 10 12:33:25 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: Message-ID: <003701c181a9$465646c0$88f8fea9@98box> ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:56 PM Subject: Re: Smoking around computers > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a > > convert, as they say ... > > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > > D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? > > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. Now THERE'S a find!!!! -Lanny Cox From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 10 12:37:45 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: DEC Support & Service CDs (was PDP 11/34 Console & cards) In-Reply-To: <01a601c1812c$2741eaa0$6501010a@charp> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Frederic Charpentier wrote: > So.... If you are interested in the index files, email me. I will have > a run of disks made. NOT FOR SALE, only giveaways. I'll seed 5 or 10 > of those who want it, and they can take it from there and pay forward > by obliging other people. I'm interested, I'd also be willing to make copies for anyone located in Houston or nearby areas. > P.S.: now, if only this kind of documentation archive existed for > S-100 systems... Almost makes you want to take up VAX systems. Then > again, I'd probably need to somewhat upgrade my home electrical > switchbox. Or I could move next to a nuclear power plant... I'm putting in a dedicated 100A branch panel for my new building that will house my old SGI/Sun/VAX boxes. I hope that will be enough ;) -Toth From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Dec 9 22:30:17 2001 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <200112100022.QAA12804@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <13697859636.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Is she cute?] I dunno. She's my sister. She's more of a pain in the ass than anything. ^_^ http://www.lunar-tokyo.net/pictures/ she's in there somewheres. ------- From LFessen106 at aol.com Mon Dec 10 12:42:21 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Rescue list? Message-ID: <171.5697e01.29465c0d@aol.com> In a message dated 12/10/01 1:32:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcguire@neurotica.com writes: > I think Bill no longer considers it really Sun-specific, Linc.. > > -Dave > That's the impression I get as well. -Linc. In The Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... Calculating in binary code is as easy as 01,10,11. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/2301fcac/attachment.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 10 12:43:43 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Smoking around computers (Glen Goodwin) References: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <15381.607.234109.44847@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 9, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) It makes them STINK! Actually either one makes them stink! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 10 12:51:21 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:40 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: Re: Rescue list? (LFessen106@aol.com) References: <171.5697e01.29465c0d@aol.com> Message-ID: <15381.1065.383787.769840@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 10, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > > I think Bill no longer considers it really Sun-specific, Linc.. > > That's the impression I get as well. Well, he announced it, and all... 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 10 12:46:19 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Model 33 Teletypes acquired In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Anyway, the metal on both machines seems to be in good shape, but the > plastic leaves something to be desired. The ASR is mostly just dirty, > but there is a crack at the left rear screw position. The KSR is > cleaner as it was used less, but it was stored improperly in a box and > dropped or something and the plastic upper case (the gray case, not > the white/yellow cover over the carriage) is broken into several > pieces. So does anybody have recommendations as to glue or other > solutions? Is someone sitting on a big stock of spare upper shells? Use a glue specially for ABS plastic. Most so-called plastic and model glues are for polystyrene and won't bond ABS since they are not strong enough. Let me know what you find, since I'm also looking for glue to use on tons of broken ABS cases. I've been told that there is a glue made for an ABS type of drain pipe. PVC glue won't work either, it tends to damage ABS plastics. -Toth From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Dec 10 12:51:40 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: barred from using MULTINET (sigh!) In-Reply-To: <3C13F002.78B3E225@idirect.com>; from jhfine@idirect.com on Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 00:13:06 CET References: <200112091126.fB9BQxf00554@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <3C13F002.78B3E225@idirect.com> Message-ID: <20011210195140.A21785@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2001.12.10 00:13 Jerome Fine wrote: > Memorex used to have a web site that listed all the properties of > DECTape (i.e. I for the TK50 with the name in brown) DECtape is _not_ the TK[57]0. TK[57]0 is called CompacTape I (TK50) or II (TK70). My information is based on http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/Hardware/Machines/DEC/vax/tk50.html#tk50-as-tk70 and there is written: Once you erase a TK50 you can use it in a TK70 drive and vice versa, but the TK50 and TK70 tape material is different, and the write current of the TK70 drive is different (lower). This is not recommended, and should be used for temporary storage for which you will suffer no pain if lost. > (b) The controller must have a buffer of some kind which holds the > next block of data automatically. Yes. The TQK70 has some additional buffer that can speed up things considerably. I experienced that when I reinstalled 2.11BSD UNIX on my PDP11/73... From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 10 12:53:24 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <003701c181a9$465646c0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: > > > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > > D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > Now THERE'S a find!!!! It doesn't take much to make a model 1 key not function. A clean environment, or periodic cleanout of the keyboard is important. From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Dec 10 13:11:31 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: The tar and other solids do have thier effects on machines, just basically depends on where it is in conjuction to the smoke you exhale and the ashtray with the smoldering cigs - I took one apart that I used a lot when I did smoke - pew did it wreak! I never noticed it when I smoked though and I noticed also since I'm a non-smoker (not an anti-smoker though like many that quit) that the machines that I did smoke near have a brown film on them inside and out, and that the fans and inside power siupplies are loaded with dust that the tar collected with. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Glen Goodwin -> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 9:28 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Smoking around computers -> -> -> > From: Tony Duell -> -> > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! -> -> I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 -> years, and -> I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that -> computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) -> -> OTOH, audio gear seems to be very susceptible to my smoke, and I have to -> clean all the switches and pots every three months or so. -> -> Glen -> 0/0 -> -> From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Dec 10 13:11:33 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <01Dec10.134636est.119223@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: Maybe that's why IBM went to black on many models :-) -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige -> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:26 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Smoking around computers -> -> -> >I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for -> 20 years, and -> >I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that -> >computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) -> -> It certainly could turn beige cases some nasty yellow colors though -> -> Jeff -> -- -> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File -> http://www.cchaven.com -> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -> From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Dec 10 13:14:00 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had a machine from one of the ITT Tech schools the same way - cannibus keyboard. I think that the pot smoke is actually worse than even the heaviest of non-filter cigs smoke - the residues from a pot smoker's PC really are funky when they've sat in storage for a while but I have noticed that machines with either residue (pot or cigs) don't tend to have mice live in them when sotred - I tried this by putting a bag of tobacco (cloth bag) inside and purposely left a filler plate off - no mice. The machine without had all sorts of acorn shells, poop, nesting materials, etc though. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin -> (XenoSoft) -> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 11:27 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Smoking around computers -> -> -> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: -> > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no -> Catholic like a -> > convert, as they say ... -> > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from -> -> D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? -> -> -> I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a -> chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. -> -> -> -> From dittman at dittman.net Mon Dec 10 13:00:18 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Moving heavy equipment In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20011210115656.06e15008@pc> from "John Foust" at Dec 10, 2001 12:01:05 PM Message-ID: <200112101900.fBAJ0IH21490@narnia.int.dittman.net> > An update: it's in my garage now. The x-ray spectrometer > is a 11/23-based system running custom apps over RT-11. > The SEM has an 8085-based system for automating various > aspects of the electron microscope column. It's an > AMRAY 1610T, circa 1983: > http://www.threedee.com/jmosn/microscopes/amray/index.html > > Even at 1,200 pounds, the column rolled easily on a > pallet jack, off the loading dock ramp and onto the > truck. To get it all off the truck, the farmer next-door > helped with his power-tilt front-loader bucket. > > The next trick will be to levitate it down the stairs > and into the basement. > > If I can get it all back together again and happy, > it'll magnify down to about 50,000 x. The Failure Analysis lab where I used to work had a couple of SEMs, and they always mounted them on a large granite slab isolated from the rest of the building (they'd cut down through the foundation and place the block in the hole, with rubber seals to prevent thing from falling between the foundation and the slab. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 10 13:20:59 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: Re: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) (Daniel A. Seagraves) References: <200112100022.QAA12804@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <13697859636.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <15381.2843.234370.190243@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 9, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > [Is she cute?] > > I dunno. She's my sister. She's more of a pain in the ass than anything. ^_^ > http://www.lunar-tokyo.net/pictures/ she's in there somewheres. Hmm, yes, quite cute. You can tell her I said so. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Dec 10 11:41:42 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Availability of DSP56K chips Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20011210124142.00ee08e4@obregon.multi.net.co> Hi everyone; It's been a while since I last coded stuff for robot control. The last time I did that, the DSP56K (dsp56001 in particular) chips were readily available. Now I need to develop a new platform for research purposes and I am finding that the once ubiquitous dsp56k chips have been eol'd (end-of-line'd in motorola parlance). The suggested replacements are the dsp56301 or 303 chips, which are code compatible, have 24 bit addressing (instead of 16 bit), run at 80MIPs instead of 20, and have all the glue logic for PCI or ISA interfacing built-in (dsp56301, which makes sense in my application because the robot supervisor will be a Linux server receiving commands from robot application clients over tcp/ip; the dsp will be a slave that does the low level yet massive number crunching stuff). So why don't I just go and choose the newer parts? Several reasons: 1) I'd prefer to go with unix-based free software tools. There is a56k and gcc56k for the dsp56k. While the dsp56.3k is supposedly code-compatible, I am sure that some tweaking would be required to make these tools work with the new family, and compilers are not my area of expertise. 2) The older parts have roughly 100 pins and can be wirewrapped, the new parts have 192 pins and require modern pcb design and production techniques, which are outrageously expensive in this corner of the world. I am not comfortable wire-wrapping a design that runs at 80MHz instead of 20. 3) From experience, I know that 20MIPS is enough for the task at hand. So, I am faced with a familiar problem; an old part that will do the job in a simpler design is no longer (readily) available; there is a new, better, faster part, but there aren't as many software goodies to go with it, and the hardware design tools and fabrication are more expensive. The key issue is the present availability of the older parts. I've checked some places and they seem to actually be out of these chips. So my question to the list is: do you know where to get dsp56001A chips? Or better yet, do you have some that you don't plan to use? carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 9 23:48:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: iPDS questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I believe I have a bootdisk for this. E-mail me privately and I'll hook you up. On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm sure glad to see the list is back up, I originally tried the following > message on Tuesday. I still don't know anything more about the system. > Unfortunatly it's been raining really hard around here since Tuesday, so > the system is still sitting at work, and I've not really been able to > examine it. > > Zane > > I'm still a little shocked. I just found a working iPDS system, complete > with documentation and some software. Unfortunatly I don't think a lot of > it is still readable. I did get the system to boot and pass all > diagnostics. > > I know nothing about these beasties, from looking at the doc's it's > obviously i8085 based with 64k RAM. It's got a single 5 1/4" floppy, and > it's in a case slightly smaller than a Kaypro II. In the area behind the > CRT is a storage area for two pods that each handle two different sizes of > PROMs, these plug into a hole in the right side of the case. > > What on earth filesystem are the floppies? Are any kind of software images > available to replace the dead floppies? Is there any software to read and > write to the floppies from MS-DOS? > > Basically the main thing I'm interested in is the systems ability to read > and write PROMs. I wouldn't mind being able to use this to support my DEC > hardware :^) > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 10 12:41:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. I understand they're high in protein. Maybe this person ate them over their keyboard like others eat snacks? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 10 13:15:30 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: <15380.64853.294164.407701@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <67.1e4f0ff9.29463c7b@aol.com> <15380.64853.294164.407701@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011210131530.C25133@mrbill.net> On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 01:22:13PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > I think Bill no longer considers it really Sun-specific, Linc.. Officially its the Sun Rescue list, but "coverage" has expanded to just about anything involving old machines or equipment. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 10 13:37:59 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: CPT 9000 In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF6E@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > > > Are you sure that it is not a CPT 8000? That one I am a bit familiar > > with and find ample references by a google search. On 9000, I draw a > > blank. > > Well, it says 9000 on the front, I believe. :) > > > If it is truly 9000, what floppy disk size does it use? > > It was shipped, I think, with both 3.5 and 5.25" high-density floppy drives. > I just found another 3.5" floppy that works in it on Saturday night. > > I got no manuals, no software (other than what was extremely messed up and > left on the drive), and a disassembled machine. > > The machine is now in more-or-less good shape. I need to pick the tumbler > keyboard lock. For now I've just disconnected it. (Or find a key that > works) I should also replace the power adaptor I've got plugged into the > floppy drive, since it's also got a signal cable adaptor that's not being > used. :) > > As I was saying, the installation was pretty botched by the time I got it. > It boots -- thinks it runs MS-DOS 3.2 -- and that's really about it. I > believe the CPU was intel 286. It has a "Tall Tree Systems" JRAM card and > JLaser 3 (I think) daughterboard. a 20MB MFM (or RLL?) 3.5" half-height > hard disk. (Miniscribe, I believe) Obviously a next generation machine from the drives and O/S. The 8000 was a Z-80 based machine. > It also has (...and this is the reason I rescued it, even though it is an > intel machine) a really odd graphics adaptor with a 15-pin (two row > D-shaped) connector that drives a full-page monochrome (white) EGA monitor. Sounds Mac like. > That's pretty much all I know about it. > > Regards, > > Chris Thanks, Chris, I appreciate the info. Sorry I cannot help you. - don > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From CLeyson at aol.com Mon Dec 10 13:41:46 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Availability of DSP56K chips Message-ID: <4e.325aa6e.294669fa@aol.com> Hi Carlos Try Dial Electronics, www.dialelec.com, they may be able to get some 56001's, they are resonably priced and don't have a minimum order charge. Unfortunately the rest of the 56k family comes in 144pin quad flat pack, even the 56002. One solution might be get a TQFP to BGA adapter board. The BGA adaptors usually have long enough pins to wrap and solder to. Winslow in the UK may have these in stock. Also, look out for an old style DSP56303-EVM evaluation module. These had pin headers connected to the data, address and control busses. I may have an old one lying around somewhere. Don't bother with the new EVM modules if you need to interface to any hardware - they only have headers for the control bus and 8-bit host port. Note: The 8-bit host port is a slave port only and needs to be driven from external processor. I've been using the 56300 family for quite a while now. The 24-bit instructions let you do one arithmetic op and two data moves in one cycle. The DMA channels allow you to move data without interrupting the core. You also get a lot more internal memory with the 563xx parts. My personal preference is to run these processors using internal memory only. Just use slow 8-bit flash to load programs. It saves having to use fast SRAM and you can do all of your I/O with fast serial links if need be. 56303 - 4k program, 2k X and Y ram. 3.3V core and I/O. I/O is 5V tolerent. Speed 80-100MHz. 144pin TQFP 56309, 20k program, 7k X and Y ram. 3.3V core and I/O. I/O is not 5V tolerent. Speed 80-100MHz. 144pin TQFP or PBGA (Plastic Ball Grid Array) package. 56307, 48k program, 8k X and Y ram, or 16k P ram and 24 X & Y ram 1.8V or 2.5V core and 3.3V I/O. Speed 100-160MHz. BGA package only. 56307 also comes with an independent Co-processor on board. All the Motorola tools are free even the gnu C compiler. I used the C compiler once and didn't like it. It produced slow code and didn't even support a fractional data type !! Not much use if your processor work in fractional arithmetic. I do all of my DSP programming in assembler. Alternatively try Texas or Analog Devices. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/e2dc18cd/attachment.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Dec 10 13:55:08 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF68@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>; from csmith@amdocs.com on Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 16:19:46 CET References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF68@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20011210205508.E21785@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2001.12.10 16:19 Christopher Smith wrote: > > KA410-A V1.2 > > F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1_.. > > ?DKA0... KA410-W V2.3 F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5?..4_..3_..2_..1?.. ? E 0040 0000.0045 ? D 0050 0000.0005 ? C 0080 0000.4001 ?? 5 0001 0000.0002 ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 >>> b dka2 -DKA2 >> NetBSD/vax boot [Jul 29 2000 02:31:03] << >> Press any key to abort autoboot 0 > boot netbsd -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ p.s. Yes, this VS2k is able to boot from SCSI. :-) From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Mon Dec 10 14:03:10 2001 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Happy DEC-10 Day! Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8F37@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Happy DEC-10 Day to all that remember the venerable olde beaste! Some of my happiest memories of college (WPI) involved hacking on the poor thing back in `73-`77... -al- -acorda@1bigred.com From CLeyson at aol.com Mon Dec 10 14:07:42 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Availability of DSP56K chips Message-ID: <160.5598bc3.2946700e@aol.com> Carlos Sorry I got carried away. If all you need is a slave processor and 20Mips, then the 56303-EVM is ideal. You get 64k x 8 flash, 32k x 24 fast SRAM, a 16-bit stereo codec and a pin header for the host port. Also included is a 56002 which acts as an RS232 to JTAG interface for Domain Technologies Debug-56k debugger, also free from Domain Technologies, www.domaintec.com. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/b90182ad/attachment.html From vcf at vintage.org Mon Dec 10 14:08:27 2001 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: A hypothetical Message-ID: Let's say a DEC PDP-1 comes up for auction. The economy is good and times are stable. What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1? This is strictly a hypothetical. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Dec 10 06:50:57 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 09 Dec 2001 12:16:31 MST." <3C13B88F.CE4AFC9C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200112101250.MAA12436@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ben Franchuk said: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > True, but back in those days, that wasn't a fatal limitation. Besides, > > the 8-bitters didn't really have a OS, more of a structured program > > loader. If all you need to do is read in executables and read/write > > data files, you don't need a full OS. > > In retospect I would say people expected BASIC to run rom. I/O > was a feature only used to save your programs, maybe even data. > The Apple,TRS-80?,Pets,C64's,Coco's,IBM-PC all come to mind. > CP/M was the most common real OS, but lets not forget about > 6800/6809 machines running FLEX or OS/9. Can I just put a word in for LDOS (for TRS-80) - one of the better 8-bit operating systems. I really missed some of it's capabilies when I moved to MSDOS (V. 2-point-something), particularly the device independence and easy driver and filter installation. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From cdrice at pobox.com Mon Dec 10 11:07:04 2001 From: cdrice at pobox.com (Charles Dee Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Several Apollo computers for free - Raleigh, NC Message-ID: <3C14EBB8.59EECC3C@pobox.com> My mail to this list keeps bouncing, but I'm still getting the digests. I haven't seen my message in a digest, so I'm assuming no one else saw it either. So, here we go (again) -- sorry if everyone gets this three times... -------- Original Message -------- I've been following this list for some time; however, recent family emergencies have required me to give up most of my hobbies for some time, and likely in the future. I'm also having to move rather quickly across the state and sell my home in Raleigh; I'm selling and giving away a number of things that I just don't see myself having time to deal with in the near future. Among them are several Apollo computers, and stack of misc. hardware (token ring parts and cables, misc. video and i/o cables, etc). and a very large stack of documentation. There are free (unless you feel compelled to make a donation to the feed- a-Chuck fund). :) >From my notes (I do NOT absolutely guarantee this is accurate): - 3500 with: - 170MB HD - SMS/Omti controller - mono video card - 19" mono monitor - 32MB RAM - 3COM 3C505 - DomainOS 10.4.1 - 5 1/4" disk drive - 3000 (unknown contents) - 3500 (unknown contents) - 2500 (unknown contents) - Another CPU (maybe a 4000?) with color card and monitor; I don't have all the specs with me, but it was fully functional when I last shut it down. - Apollo token ring - Isolan multiplex repeater - Lots of misc. parts (cables, keyboards, etc.) - Lots and lots of books; some still in original shrink-wrap **I WILL NOT SHIP THESE ITEMS.** Sorry; they're just too heavy and bulky for me to package and ship; I just have too much else going on right now. With everything going on, I STRONGLY prefer someone take everything. I will not be able to take the time to go through any of this and pick out parts that people want. I am in Garner, NC (just south of Raleigh). I can provide exact location and directions upon request. I am usually only in town on Thursdays and Fridays. Please email me if you are interested and we can work out the details. Please help me find a home for these guys; if I don't find a taker pretty soon, they'll have to go to the recyclers. - Chuck -- | Charles Dee Rice ------------------------------------- cdrice@pobox.com | | "You know how it is with me baby - You know I just can't stand myself | | It takes a whole lot of medicine, darlin' | | For me to pretend I'm somebody else." | -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type message/delivery-status-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nsmail3C14EB1F00805B1 Type: text/rfc822-headers Size: 598 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/c911da40/nsmail3C14EB1F00805B1.bin From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Dec 10 16:56:13 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Several Apollo computers for free - Raleigh, NC Message-ID: <95.142d6934.2946978d@aol.com> In a message dated 12/10/2001 5:22:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, cdrice@pobox.com writes: << Among them are several Apollo computers, and stack of misc. hardware (token ring parts and cables, misc. video and i/o cables, etc). and a very large stack of documentation. >> wish I had the space; I'm within 25 miles of the computers. From curt at atari-history.com Mon Dec 10 14:30:40 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Availability of DSP56K chips References: <3.0.2.32.20011210124142.00ee08e4@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <006e01c181b9$8bb78e80$2135ff0a@cvendel> Those DSPs were used heavily in the Atari Falcon030 multimedia systems, Best Electronics carries them in stock: www.best-electronics-ca.com Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: Availability of DSP56K chips > > Hi everyone; > > It's been a while since I last coded stuff for robot control. The last > time I did that, the DSP56K (dsp56001 in particular) chips were > readily available. Now I need to develop a new platform for > research purposes and I am finding that the once ubiquitous dsp56k > chips have been eol'd (end-of-line'd in motorola parlance). > The suggested replacements are the dsp56301 or 303 chips, which > are code compatible, have 24 bit addressing (instead of 16 bit), > run at 80MIPs instead of 20, and have all the glue logic > for PCI or ISA interfacing built-in (dsp56301, which makes sense in my > application because the robot supervisor will be a Linux server > receiving commands from robot application clients over tcp/ip; > the dsp will be a slave that does the low level yet massive > number crunching stuff). So why don't I just go and choose > the newer parts? Several reasons: > > 1) I'd prefer to go with unix-based free software tools. There is > a56k and gcc56k for the dsp56k. While the dsp56.3k is supposedly > code-compatible, I am sure that some tweaking would be required to > make these tools work with the new family, and compilers are not > my area of expertise. > > 2) The older parts have roughly 100 pins and can be wirewrapped, the > new parts have 192 pins and require modern pcb design and production > techniques, which are outrageously expensive in this corner of the > world. I am not comfortable wire-wrapping a design that runs at > 80MHz instead of 20. > > 3) From experience, I know that 20MIPS is enough for the task at hand. > > So, I am faced with a familiar problem; an old part that will do the > job in a simpler design is no longer (readily) available; there is > a new, better, faster part, but there aren't as many software goodies > to go with it, and the hardware design tools and fabrication are more > expensive. The key issue is the present availability of the older > parts. I've checked some places and they seem to actually be out > of these chips. So my question to the list is: do you know where > to get dsp56001A chips? Or better yet, do you have some that you don't > plan to use? > > > carlos. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 10 14:36:45 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: A hypothetical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011210123258.02ab1500@mcmanis.com> Well if I were using hypothetical dollars, maybe $100,000 to $150,000 :-) But with real money it would stop bidding after it crossed $1,000. Now I *could* trade a dozen VAXen for it :-) I suspect an honorable auction house could get $25,000 for it. Looking at things that have sold in the past that seems like the "right" price. That also presumes that it works and is complete. A partial PDP-1 wouldn't be worth nearly as much and one that didn't have the tube would be worth less still. Of course, if you could get TWO truly enthusiastic collectors who would are independently wealthy into the auction the sky would be the limit. --Chuck At 12:08 PM 12/10/01, you wrote: >Let's say a DEC PDP-1 comes up for auction. The economy is good and times >are stable. > >What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1? > >This is strictly a hypothetical. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 10 14:56:40 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: A hypothetical Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AAA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Let's say a DEC PDP-1 comes up for auction. The economy is > good and times are stable. > > What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1? > > This is strictly a hypothetical. I'd be willing to pay everything I've got, which would *not* be enough to be the winning bidder. So, the real question should be, what would an auction of a PDP-1 top out at? -dq From ernestls at attbi.com Mon Dec 10 15:07:39 2001 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Question about older keyboards. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have an old keyboard with those soldered on keycap assemblies. One of the key mechanisms broke off and now I'm receiving random characters on the screen. The missing key is the #3 key. Could the fact that this mechanism is missing cause this kind of problem, or would the computer see that missing key as un-pressed but otherwise no problem. Some other part of the keyboard my be broken but I'm trying to narrow down where to begin trouble shooting. When I turn the computer on, it sort of runs amuck as though I were pressing a bunch of random keys but then quiets down after start up but refuses to let me type anything. Plus, on the screen are 10 to 20 mixed letters and numbers on the line were I am supposed to enter a command -load, save, run, etc. E. From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 10 14:38:35 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: CPT 9000 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF78@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > > It also has (...and this is the reason I rescued it, even > though it is an > > intel machine) a really odd graphics adaptor with a 15-pin (two row > > D-shaped) connector that drives a full-page monochrome > (white) EGA monitor. > Sounds Mac like. You're not kidding. The installation of MS-DOS on the disk resides in the "SYSTEM" directory. That aside, I get the impression they used GEM desktop (there are small components stuck in with the installation of ventura publisher -- either it came with ventura or was part of the system...) There is also a more "standard" monitor plug next to the strange one (on the same card)... > Thanks, Chris, I appreciate the info. Sorry I cannot help you. Thanks for the attempt. If they made an 8000, maybe I should keep an eye out. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 10 14:38:49 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AA8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I have noticed > that machines with either residue (pot or cigs) don't tend to > have mice live > in them when sotred - I tried this by putting a bag of > tobacco (cloth bag) > inside and purposely left a filler plate off - no mice. The > machine without > had all sorts of acorn shells, poop, nesting materials, etc though. Great tip, thanks, the old IBM 716 Line Printer was *full* of that; had I known I could stick a pack of Viceroys in there to cure it, I might not have dismantled it... -dq From als at thangorodrim.de Mon Dec 10 16:57:12 2001 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AA8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AA8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20011210225712.GA8356@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 03:38:49PM -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I have noticed > > that machines with either residue (pot or cigs) don't tend to > > have mice live > > in them when sotred - I tried this by putting a bag of > > tobacco (cloth bag) > > inside and purposely left a filler plate off - no mice. The > > machine without > > had all sorts of acorn shells, poop, nesting materials, etc though. > > Great tip, thanks, the old IBM 716 Line Printer was *full* > of that; had I known I could stick a pack of Viceroys in > there to cure it, I might not have dismantled it... Seems like the mice "know" that nicotine is a strong toxin. Regards, Alex. -- q: If you were young again, would you start writing TeX again or would you use Microsoft Word, or another word processor? a: I hope to die before I *have* to use Microsoft Word. -- Harald Koenig asking Donald E. Knuth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 10 17:04:20 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 10, 1 10:41:04 am" Message-ID: <200112102304.PAA09126@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > > I understand they're high in protein. Maybe this person ate them over > their keyboard like others eat snacks? :) If they weren't eating snacks before they ate the marijuana seeds, they certainly were afterwards. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Funny, I don't remember being absent minded. ------------------------------- From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Dec 10 15:45:55 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: <20011210205508.E21785@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: > On 2001.12.10 16:19 Christopher Smith wrote: > > > > KA410-A V1.2 > > > F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1_.. > > > > ?DKA0... > KA410-W V2.3 > > F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5?..4_..3_..2_..1?.. > > > ? E 0040 0000.0045 > ? D 0050 0000.0005 > ? C 0080 0000.4001 > ?? 5 0001 0000.0002 > ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 > > >>> b dka2 > > > -DKA2 > > >> NetBSD/vax boot [Jul 29 2000 02:31:03] << > >> Press any key to abort autoboot 0 > > boot netbsd > -- **** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 **** 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE READY. g. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 10 16:59:43 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: from Gene Buckle at "Dec 10, 1 01:45:55 pm" Message-ID: <200112102259.OAA11622@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > **** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 **** > 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE > > READY. (Darn, you beat me to it! ... so,) (C) 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd [K] -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Really???? WOW!!!!! I'm shallow TOO!!!!! ----------------------------------- From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Dec 10 16:11:04 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: MIPS RISComputer M/120 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF79@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi everybody, I have -- in various stages of repair -- three MIPS RISComputers. The model is M/120. I'm in need of an operating system (and maybe even software :) that will run on these. They were given to me without hard drives. Any ideas? Also, can anyone tell me what's the normal amount of RAM for these to have? One of them has two or three (don't remember) RAM boards, and one has five. The third has no RAM, and I wonder whether I could divide the boards between them and still have something reasonable. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ip500 at home.com Mon Dec 10 14:40:54 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (Craig Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: ABS type glue / was ASR-33 References: Message-ID: <3C151DD6.CE67DA06@home.com> Check out a sporting goods store that sells whitewater canoes. Most are made from ABS of some sort [Royalite, Royaltex, Oltenar] all come from basic ABS sandwich stock. They should have a really tough glue for mounting tie points and thigh harness to the bottom of the interior. IN my experience .. NOTHING else will bond to the ABS. Tothwolf wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > Anyway, the metal on both machines seems to be in good shape, but the > > plastic leaves something to be desired. The ASR is mostly just dirty, > > but there is a crack at the left rear screw position. The KSR is > > cleaner as it was used less, but it was stored improperly in a box and > > dropped or something and the plastic upper case (the gray case, not > > the white/yellow cover over the carriage) is broken into several > > pieces. So does anybody have recommendations as to glue or other > > solutions? Is someone sitting on a big stock of spare upper shells? > > Use a glue specially for ABS plastic. Most so-called plastic and model > glues are for polystyrene and won't bond ABS since they are not strong > enough. Let me know what you find, since I'm also looking for glue to use > on tons of broken ABS cases. I've been told that there is a glue made for > an ABS type of drain pipe. PVC glue won't work either, it tends to damage > ABS plastics. > > -Toth From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Mon Dec 10 16:59:07 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: MIPS RISComputer M/120 In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF79@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On 10-Dec-2001 Christopher Smith wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I have -- in various stages of repair -- three MIPS RISComputers. The > model is M/120. I'm in need of an operating system (and maybe even > software :) that will run on these. RISC/os is what you want. It's a derivative of BSD, iirc. > They were given to me without hard drives. Any ideas? Any SCSI-1 drive should work. 50 pin headers. > One of them has two or three (don't remember) RAM boards, and one has > five. The third has no RAM, and I wonder whether I could divide the > boards between them and still have something reasonable. The boards are 8 mb each. IMHO, with the noise these things make, put all the RAM boards you can (max 6) into one of them, and use it. Others serving as spare parts. -Philip From allain at panix.com Mon Dec 10 16:59:08 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: A hypothetical References: Message-ID: <015e01c181ce$46f51f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1? > This is strictly a hypothetical. I suppose I could give up $1~2K to assist a _nationally_ recognized museum (charitable) to get something neat for itself and its visitors. As for me? the problem is space. I went to someone's garage sale once where he could house 4 cars abreast and had room for two more cars sideways in the back. Sorry but that aint my garage. (If it was, there'd be 1 car and...) Regarding the bigge$t buck$ for a sale issue, a PDP-1 might go for less than another machine, even DEC, since so few used one and therefore would have the pleasant memories. Are there ever any auctions of computers, period, other than online or industrial? John A. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Dec 10 17:12:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > On 2001.12.10 16:19 Christopher Smith wrote: >> >> > > KA410-A V1.2 >> > > F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1_.. >> > >> > ?DKA0... >> KA410-W V2.3 >> >> F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5?..4_..3_..2_..1?.. >> >> >> ? E 0040 0000.0045 >> ? D 0050 0000.0005 >> ? C 0080 0000.4001 >> ?? 5 0001 0000.0002 >> ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 >> >> >>> b dka2 >> >> >> -DKA2 >> >> >> NetBSD/vax boot [Jul 29 2000 02:31:03] << >> >> Press any key to abort autoboot 0 >> > boot netbsd >> -- > > > **** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 **** > 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE > >READY. > S-BUG 1.8 - 56k >U FLEX 2.8:1 DATE (MM,DD,YY)? 12,10,01 DECEMBER 10, 191 The current time is 134:19:167 +++ -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Dec 10 18:35:30 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: <200112102259.OAA11622@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > **** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 **** > > 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE > > > > READY. > (Darn, you beat me to it! ... so,) > > (C) 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd > [K] > TRSDOS - DISK OPERATING SYSTEM - VER 2.3 DOS READY BASIC_ HOW MANY FILES? MEMORY SIZE? RADIO SHACK DISK BASIC VERSION 2.2 READY >_ g. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Dec 10 17:24:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: A hypothetical In-Reply-To: <015e01c181ce$46f51f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <015e01c181ce$46f51f00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >Are there ever any auctions of computers, period, other than online >or industrial? Anymore it's most likely to be common PC stuff, but you used to be able to get some pretty cool non-DOS/WIndows stuff from government DRMO auctions. Places such as Navy Research Lab in Washington D.C. had oodles of non-PC stuff, such as NeXT's, Osborne's, Atari ST's, Amiga's...you name it. Six or seven years ago I got quite a bit of interesting stuff at such auctions when I was first starting to really build this collection. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 10 16:39:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Dec 9, 1 10:27:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 609 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/7099f5f5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 10 16:52:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: H89 docs/help requested In-Reply-To: <20011210041707.NYNZ8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Dec 9, 1 11:00:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2042 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/40619b9d/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 10 13:16:39 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: References: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <20011211001224.CSTE23490.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: > Subject: RE: Smoking around computers > Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:11:31 -0600 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > The tar and other solids do have thier effects on machines, just basically > depends on where it is in conjuction to the smoke you exhale and the ashtray > with the smoldering cigs - I took one apart that I used a lot when I did > smoke - pew did it wreak! I never noticed it when I smoked though and I > noticed also since I'm a non-smoker (not an anti-smoker though like many > that quit) that the machines that I did smoke near have a brown film on them > inside and out, and that the fans and inside power siupplies are loaded with > dust that the tar collected with. These stinky cig stuff isn't easy to clean off. Requires straight non-inflammable commerical degreaser (salt-based) that is safe on plastic and metal, that wonderful stuff as a bonus did eat off some rust too. I was lucky to find one locally at a cleaning shop. Anything else I tried did get most of that but stink remains. That degreaser did it then traded away the machine. (peecee) Vinyl based stuff asborbs that cig junk, has to be replaced, cannot be easily removed. Most of wiring insulation is vinyl. Hard plastics sightly asborbs but with time u can get it clean. Cheers, Wizard From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 10 18:52:18 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:41 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <200112102304.PAA09126@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > > > > I understand they're high in protein. Maybe this person ate them over > > their keyboard like others eat snacks? :) > > If they weren't eating snacks before they ate the marijuana seeds, they > certainly were afterwards. :-P Sounds like this comes from someone who knows? :) Just busting your chops. There's nothing wrong with smoking something that Mother Nature put on Earth. Shame on those that think otherwise. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 10 18:16:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Question about older keyboards. In-Reply-To: from "Ernest" at Dec 10, 1 01:07:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/50585e7c/attachment.ksh From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Dec 10 18:17:38 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: A hypothetical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Are there ever any auctions of computers, period, other than online > >or industrial? > > Anymore it's most likely to be common PC stuff, but you used to be > able to get some pretty cool non-DOS/WIndows stuff from government > DRMO auctions. Places such as Navy Research Lab in Washington D.C. > had oodles of non-PC stuff, such as NeXT's, Osborne's, Atari ST's, > Amiga's...you name it. Six or seven years ago I got quite a bit of > interesting stuff at such auctions when I was first starting to really > build this collection. University of Texas surplus auctions were a good place to find old gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer gear to the prison system...I saw 3-4 AS-400 IBM systems about a year ago, and they wouldn't auction them off...they sent them to the prisons...Sad thing is, I imagine they all ended up sold to a scrap metal dealer. Speaking of auctions in Texas, we have an auction in Houston on Wednesday, there won't be any computers or monitors in it, but it might have other stuff worth looking at. I usually end up repairing about 75% of the things I buy at these auctions before I can use them. I'm planning to attend this auction unless something comes up. Is there anyone else here who might show up? Heres a url with more info: http://www.shattuck.com/Live_Auctions/live_auctions.html -Toth From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 10 18:40:20 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: Does anyone know where I might find prints for a PDP-11/70? Like complete prints? I was intrigued as I studied my own 11/70 with the possibility of implementing an 11/70 in modern high-speed discrete logic. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 10 19:24:08 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. Peace... Sridhar From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 9 18:30:55 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. References: Message-ID: <3C14023F.2BC8E142@jetnet.ab.ca> Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > > Peace... Sridhar So the Misses kicked you out again for the night! :) -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 10 19:41:14 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: I've discovered a new pleasure. (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: Message-ID: <15381.25658.991630.472921@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 10, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. Uhhhh Sridhar, you ok man? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 10 20:09:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <15381.25658.991630.472921@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > > Uhhhh > > Sridhar, you ok man? Perfectly ok. Simple pleasures for simple minds, you know. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 10 20:23:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: from "Dave McGuire" at Dec 10, 2001 08:41:14 PM Message-ID: <200112110223.fBB2NqO03858@shell1.aracnet.com> > On December 10, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > > Uhhhh > > Sridhar, you ok man? > > -Dave Good question, comments like that are scarry :^) Especially since it reveals that he's got a storage locker that isn't completely full :^) Zane From CLeyson at aol.com Mon Dec 10 19:37:27 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <7a.1f4aed55.2946bd57@aol.com> Sorry can't help with the 11/70. On a similar thread, for those interested in HP stuff - I did find a schematic for an HP2116 32-bit floating point CORDIC co-processor. It's all in US patent 3766370 dated 1973. Patent contains complete schematic, flow charts and microcode. Uses some logic family I've never heard of, SL159XX series ? Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011210/69044fa6/attachment.html From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 10 19:42:24 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Several Apollo computers for free - Raleigh, NC Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AAD@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > **I WILL NOT SHIP THESE ITEMS.** Sorry; they're just too > heavy and bulky > for me to package and ship; I just have too much else going > on right now. > With everything going on, I STRONGLY prefer someone take > everything. I will > not be able to take the time to go through any of this and > pick out parts > that people want. If someone fairly close to Raleigh is on the list, doesn't lust for these, and is wiling to give me a hand, I'd like to get as least the docs, or see them go to someone who can and will get them scanned fairly soon, I'm a bit in the dark running my Apollos (the FAQ helps as does some other info on the web). I would not mind seeing the entire haul in my hands but I've got 3 systems of similar vintage, so I don't want to be a pig. Anyone near him? -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 10 20:42:29 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 10, 1 04:52:18 pm" Message-ID: <200112110242.SAA08344@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > > > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > > > > > > I understand they're high in protein. Maybe this person ate them over > > > their keyboard like others eat snacks? :) > > > > If they weren't eating snacks before they ate the marijuana seeds, they > > certainly were afterwards. :-P > > Sounds like this comes from someone who knows? :) I'm less than two years away from my MD -- of course I know! ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. -- 1 Corinthians 8:1 --------------- From bob at jfcl.com Mon Dec 10 19:57:01 2001 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Free DEC stuff in Milpitas CA Message-ID: <01121018570109@jfcl.com> I have the following mostly (but not all) DEC stuff to give away FREE. All you have to do is pick it up in Milpitas CA (next door to San Jose). * A VAXstation-2000. No disks (you'll need to find an RD5x/3x for it). No guarantees of condition, either, but then it is free :-) * A VAXstation-3100/30. No disks (but you can use almost any SCSI drive). No guarantees of condition, either, but then it is free :-) * A Sophia Systems SA-2000 8-bit ICE. This is a self contained CP/M machine from the early 80s in a "luggable" case something like the KayPro or Osborne. Includes SA-DOS boot diskettes but no pods (it boots and runs just fine with out them). * A DECmate-II RX50 system (no hard disk) WITHOUT the 6120 CPU chip. System unit only - no monitor or keyboard. * About half a dozen DEC orange binders (empty). * A MicroVMS (VMS v4.x) manual set, in orange binders. * Most of an OpenVMS v7.x manual set (perfect bound). * A padded, sound proof printer enclosure for a 14" dot matrix printer, including a fan. I only read this list in digest form, and I'm way behind on that, so please write to me directly if you're interested in anything. Bob From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 10 21:01:37 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <3C14023F.2BC8E142@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > So the Misses kicked you out again for the night! :) Well, I suppose if I *had* a misses. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 10 21:02:40 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <200112110223.fBB2NqO03858@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > > > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > > > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > > > > Uhhhh > > > > Sridhar, you ok man? > > Good question, comments like that are scarry :^) Especially since it > reveals that he's got a storage locker that isn't completely full :^) It doesn't reveal anything of the sort! I was sitting on top of an IBM PC Server 500 and the PPC was on top of a three-foot-tall mound of cables! Peace... Sridhar From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Mon Dec 10 21:08:55 2001 From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <200112110223.fBB2NqO03858@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200112110308.QAA16874@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> "Zane H. Healy" : > Good question, comments like that are scarry :^) Especially since it > reveals that he's got a storage locker that isn't completely full > :^) And is big enough to need a space heater. Although, come to think of it, he didn't actually say the space heater was turned on... Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+ University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a | Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc. | greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 9 20:17:38 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. References: Message-ID: <3C141B42.F6A31315@jetnet.ab.ca> Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > Well, I suppose if I *had* a misses. 8-) > Try this ... It may get you in the mood to find a Misses. http://www.peachprincess.com/ ( Mature games - not porn ). Cause after a few weeks of BASIC, your mind slowly goes. :) -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 10 21:39:18 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <200112110308.QAA16874@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> from "Greg Ewing" at Dec 11, 2001 04:08:55 PM Message-ID: <200112110339.fBB3dIH06484@shell1.aracnet.com> > And is big enough to need a space heater. Although, come to > think of it, he didn't actually say the space heater was > turned on... That doesn't mean much, I think he's in New York somewhere. So this time of year it could be rather chilly in any size Storage Locker! Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 10 21:42:45 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: from "Boatman on the River of Suck" at Dec 10, 2001 10:02:40 PM Message-ID: <200112110342.fBB3gji06646@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > > > > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > > > > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > > > > > > Uhhhh > > > > > > Sridhar, you ok man? > > > > Good question, comments like that are scarry :^) Especially since it > > reveals that he's got a storage locker that isn't completely full :^) > > It doesn't reveal anything of the sort! I was sitting on top of an IBM PC > Server 500 and the PPC was on top of a three-foot-tall mound of cables! > > Peace... Sridhar OK, now you just plain scare me since I assume you're doing this without a safety observer! My two storage units sound like they aren't as bad as yours, and it's gotten to the point I like to have my wife along when I'm digging just to act as a safety observer. It's nice to know that there is someone to go for help if something goes wrong, and that's with stuff for the most part neatly, stacked on either shelves or the floor. Zane From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Dec 10 21:33:53 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit? Message-ID: <3C157EA1.2040201@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I'm ripping my hair out over VMS (as usual). I have a little magic file that I need to transfer from PC to VAX. And kermit on both ends. I thought I knew how to use kermit, but no matter what I do, the file will never work as an executable on the VAX. It always complains about a corrupt descriptor block and it comes up too long. The file is exactly 2048 bytes long and when I send it it comes up as 5/6 blocks with DIR/SIZE=ALL. That is one block too many, isn't it? The funny thing is, when I do a round trip with kermit PC -put-> VAX -get-> PC, I get two identical files on the PC. But when I do VAX -get-> PC -put-> VAX of a working .EXE file on the VAX, I end up with a broken copy (same error.) So, what can I do? I have SET FILE TYPE BINARY on both sides. I'm so sorry for bothering you with my VMS ignorance, I greatly appreciate your patience and help. regards -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From ernestls at attbi.com Mon Dec 10 21:49:11 2001 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Question about older keyboards. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 4:17 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Question about older keyboards. > > > > > I have an old keyboard with those soldered on keycap > assemblies. One of the > > A general point : Please post the make/model and any other information > that will identify the unit. Somebody may know the exact device you are > talking about, and/or have a service manual for it. I considered this but I don't think that anyone here knows anything about this keyboard. It looks like a very simple homemade job -hand soldered anyway. It isn't wire-wrapped but close to it. > > key mechanisms broke off and now I'm receiving random characters on the > > screen. The missing key is the #3 key. Could the fact that this > mechanism is > > missing cause this kind of problem, or would the computer see > that missing > > It depends : > 2) If it's totally missing, and only has 2 connections, then it's a > switch. Having it missing should cause no problems, it will just appear > not to ever be pressed This is the case on this keyboard. The board has one TI SN74159N chip that all the keys connect to at one place or another. It's discription is: 4-LINE TO 16-LINE DECODERS/DEMULTIPLEXERS WITH OPEN COLLECTOR OUTPUTS. Looking at the keyboard, aside from the missing key mechanism, the board "looks" OK. It's even dust free. There is one thing that's interesting but I'm not sure if it's a bad thing or not. There is what looks like an intentional solder bridge between the 6-7 pins (if the notch faces away from you, it's on the right side in the middle.) So, if the keyboard seems to be OK, where would I next look for the cause of a few random characters being generated on startup? Any tips here will help. Thanks. E. > From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 10 21:56:11 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <20011211043429.VKZF9714.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. You got it from Sellam, right? ;>) Glen 0/0 From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Dec 10 22:02:41 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit? References: <3C157EA1.2040201@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3C158561.8060602@aurora.regenstrief.org> The answer was SET FILE TYPE FIXED. But how about this: %STDRV-I-STARTUP, OpenVMS startup begun at 10-DEC-2001 22:56:23.89 %SYSGEN-E-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch - reassemble and relink driver -SYSGEN-I-DRIVENAM, driver name is SIDRIVER %SYSGEN-E-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch - reassemble and relink driver -SYSGEN-I-DRIVENAM, driver name is SIDRIVER this driver version mismatch prevents me from doing a SYSGEN etc. Where can I turn off dependency to this driver? -Gunther Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I'm ripping my hair out over VMS (as usual). I have a little > magic file that I need to transfer from PC to VAX. And > kermit on both ends. I thought I knew how to use kermit, > but no matter what I do, the file will never work as an > executable on the VAX. It always complains about a corrupt > descriptor block and it comes up too long. The file is > exactly 2048 bytes long and when I send it it comes up as > 5/6 blocks with DIR/SIZE=ALL. That is one block too many, > isn't it? > > The funny thing is, when I do a round trip with kermit > PC -put-> VAX -get-> PC, I get two identical files on the > PC. But when I do VAX -get-> PC -put-> VAX of a working > .EXE file on the VAX, I end up with a broken copy (same > error.) So, what can I do? > > I have SET FILE TYPE BINARY on both sides. > > I'm so sorry for bothering you with my VMS ignorance, I > greatly appreciate your patience and help. > > regards > -Gunther > -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Dec 10 22:02:41 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit? References: <3C157EA1.2040201@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3C158561.8060602@aurora.regenstrief.org> The answer was SET FILE TYPE FIXED. But how about this: %STDRV-I-STARTUP, OpenVMS startup begun at 10-DEC-2001 22:56:23.89 %SYSGEN-E-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch - reassemble and relink driver -SYSGEN-I-DRIVENAM, driver name is SIDRIVER %SYSGEN-E-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch - reassemble and relink driver -SYSGEN-I-DRIVENAM, driver name is SIDRIVER this driver version mismatch prevents me from doing a SYSGEN etc. Where can I turn off dependency to this driver? -Gunther Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I'm ripping my hair out over VMS (as usual). I have a little > magic file that I need to transfer from PC to VAX. And > kermit on both ends. I thought I knew how to use kermit, > but no matter what I do, the file will never work as an > executable on the VAX. It always complains about a corrupt > descriptor block and it comes up too long. The file is > exactly 2048 bytes long and when I send it it comes up as > 5/6 blocks with DIR/SIZE=ALL. That is one block too many, > isn't it? > > The funny thing is, when I do a round trip with kermit > PC -put-> VAX -get-> PC, I get two identical files on the > PC. But when I do VAX -get-> PC -put-> VAX of a working > .EXE file on the VAX, I end up with a broken copy (same > error.) So, what can I do? > > I have SET FILE TYPE BINARY on both sides. > > I'm so sorry for bothering you with my VMS ignorance, I > greatly appreciate your patience and help. > > regards > -Gunther > -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From dittman at dittman.net Mon Dec 10 22:36:06 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit? In-Reply-To: <3C157EA1.2040201@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Dec 10, 2001 10:33:53 PM Message-ID: <200112110436.fBB4a6q23074@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I'm ripping my hair out over VMS (as usual). I have a little > magic file that I need to transfer from PC to VAX. And > kermit on both ends. I thought I knew how to use kermit, > but no matter what I do, the file will never work as an > executable on the VAX. It always complains about a corrupt > descriptor block and it comes up too long. The file is > exactly 2048 bytes long and when I send it it comes up as > 5/6 blocks with DIR/SIZE=ALL. That is one block too many, > isn't it? > > The funny thing is, when I do a round trip with kermit > PC -put-> VAX -get-> PC, I get two identical files on the > PC. But when I do VAX -get-> PC -put-> VAX of a working > .EXE file on the VAX, I end up with a broken copy (same > error.) So, what can I do? > > I have SET FILE TYPE BINARY on both sides. > > I'm so sorry for bothering you with my VMS ignorance, I > greatly appreciate your patience and help. Can you post a DIR/FULL? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 10 22:30:03 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <200112110308.QAA16874@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Greg Ewing wrote: > > Good question, comments like that are scarry :^) Especially since it > > reveals that he's got a storage locker that isn't completely full > > :^) > > And is big enough to need a space heater. Although, come to > think of it, he didn't actually say the space heater was > turned on... Ok. The storage locker isn't *completely* full, although it has multiple big-iron VAXen and two IBM mainframes complete with peripherals in it. And the space heater is on, but is just enough to heat only the area just in front of it. There's a radiant heating system in the floor of the locker, but it doesn't help all that much when it's close to 0F outside. Peace... Sridhar From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Mon Dec 10 22:32:22 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: H89 docs/help requested Message-ID: <20011211043436.VLAD9714.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Tony Duell > The H89 is a little strange. It's really a serial terminal (almost the > same as a H19) and a Z80-based computer in the same box. Yes, they > communicate via an RS232 link between the terminal logic board and the > CPU board. A *little* strange? > So the problem could be in just about any area of the unit. Great! ;>) > I would start by ignoring the computer part for the moment and turning it > back into a terminal. Disconnect the 0.1" header jumper between the > terminal logic PCB and the CPU PCB. Connect one of the serial sockets on > the back (normally connected to the triple serial card plugged into the > CPU board) to the connector on the terminal logic PCB. And then short > pins 2 and 3 on this serial socket. [snip a lot more really expert advice] Tony, thanks a million. I'd really like to get this baby up and running, as it's the only machine I have which uses 5.25" hard-sectored floppies. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to identify the components you mention by eyeballing them (I have no docs) and am looking forward to doing this in the next week or so, but in the meantime, can you answer just one more question for me: How do I open this friggin' box!@!$#&! TIA, Glen 0/0 From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 10 22:56:20 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <3C141B42.F6A31315@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Well, I suppose if I *had* a misses. 8-) > > > Try this ... It may get you in the mood to find a Misses. > http://www.peachprincess.com/ ( Mature games - not porn ). > Cause after a few weeks of BASIC, your mind slowly goes. :) LOL. We shall see. Peace... Sridhar From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Dec 10 22:59:01 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit? References: <3C157EA1.2040201@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <00ff01c18200$8d682c70$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gunther Schadow" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:03 PM Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with kermit? > Hi, > > I'm ripping my hair out over VMS (as usual). I have a little > magic file that I need to transfer from PC to VAX. What is the 'magic' file supposed to do? > kermit on both ends. I thought I knew how to use kermit, Kermit is a bitch of a thing. VMS Kermit is a real bitch of a thing. Personal experience. What version? > but no matter what I do, the file will never work as an > executable on the VAX. It always complains about a corrupt > descriptor block and it comes up too long. The file is > exactly 2048 bytes long and when I send it it comes up as > 5/6 blocks with DIR/SIZE=ALL. That is one block too many, > isn't it? Not necessarily. True Size of file data in blocks / Actual number of blocks used to store the file. Often different. I have files that are 1 and 3. > The funny thing is, when I do a round trip with kermit > PC -put-> VAX -get-> PC, I get two identical files on the > PC. But when I do VAX -get-> PC -put-> VAX of a working > .EXE file on the VAX, I end up with a broken copy (same > error.) So, what can I do? > > I have SET FILE TYPE BINARY on both sides. I vaguely remember something else needs to be tweaked. In Receive Parameters I think. > > I'm so sorry for bothering you with my VMS ignorance, I > greatly appreciate your patience and help. You have probably just been playing with Unix too long. ;^) Does the VAX have ZIP and UNZIP on it? Can you do the following at the terminal and give me the results? SHO LICENSE SHO SYSTEM SHO NET SHO DEV SHO TERM And from inside Kermit sho all cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ 1970476 From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 10 23:09:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: Message-ID: <002e01c18201$f8f3f400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Smoking around computers > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a > > convert, as they say ... > > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > > D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? > Gee ... I thought that was a cup holder ... > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 10 23:18:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: Message-ID: <006601c18203$570d80a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Hmmmm ... CANNIBUS??? Is there an IEEE standard for that one? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:14 PM Subject: RE: Smoking around computers > I had a machine from one of the ITT Tech schools the same way - cannibus > keyboard. I think that the pot smoke is actually worse than even the > heaviest of non-filter cigs smoke - the residues from a pot smoker's PC > really are funky when they've sat in storage for a while but I have noticed > that machines with either residue (pot or cigs) don't tend to have mice live > in them when sotred - I tried this by putting a bag of tobacco (cloth bag) > inside and purposely left a filler plate off - no mice. The machine without > had all sorts of acorn shells, poop, nesting materials, etc though. > > -> -----Original Message----- > -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin > -> (XenoSoft) > -> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 11:27 AM > -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > -> Subject: Re: Smoking around computers > -> > -> > -> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > -> > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no > -> Catholic like a > -> > convert, as they say ... > -> > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > -> > -> D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? > -> > -> > -> I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > -> chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > -> > -> > -> > -> > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Dec 10 23:37:06 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AA8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Moth balls work too but you have to be careful holding the moths down while you get their balls. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> On Behalf Of Douglas Quebbeman -> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:39 PM -> To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' -> Subject: RE: Smoking around computers -> -> -> > I have noticed -> > that machines with either residue (pot or cigs) don't tend to -> > have mice live -> > in them when sotred - I tried this by putting a bag of -> > tobacco (cloth bag) -> > inside and purposely left a filler plate off - no mice. The -> > machine without -> > had all sorts of acorn shells, poop, nesting materials, etc though. -> -> Great tip, thanks, the old IBM 716 Line Printer was *full* -> of that; had I known I could stick a pack of Viceroys in -> there to cure it, I might not have dismantled it... -> -> -dq -> From vance at ikickass.org Mon Dec 10 23:54:47 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Moth balls work too but you have to be careful holding the moths down while > you get their balls. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Mon Dec 10 23:37:08 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <20011210225712.GA8356@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: It might be the odor from the tobacco too - my Akita hates the smell of raw tobacco, even if it's a bale of tobacco while we're in the process of stripping the leaves from the plants prior to baling for market - she won't even stay in the barn tht we strip the leaves in as it irritates her smell senses so bad. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> On Behalf Of Alexander Schreiber -> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 4:57 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Smoking around computers -> -> -> On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 03:38:49PM -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: -> > > I have noticed -> > > that machines with either residue (pot or cigs) don't tend to -> > > have mice live -> > > in them when sotred - I tried this by putting a bag of -> > > tobacco (cloth bag) -> > > inside and purposely left a filler plate off - no mice. The -> > > machine without -> > > had all sorts of acorn shells, poop, nesting materials, etc though. -> > -> > Great tip, thanks, the old IBM 716 Line Printer was *full* -> > of that; had I known I could stick a pack of Viceroys in -> > there to cure it, I might not have dismantled it... -> -> Seems like the mice "know" that nicotine is a strong toxin. -> -> Regards, -> Alex. -> -- -> q: If you were young again, would you start writing TeX again or would -> you use Microsoft Word, or another word processor? -> a: I hope to die before I *have* to use Microsoft Word. -> -- Harald Koenig asking -> Donald E. Knuth -> From chobbs at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 10 23:40:55 2001 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (charles hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <15381.607.234109.44847@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C159C67.D4BA0C5F@socal.rr.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 9, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! > > > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) > > It makes them STINK! > > Actually either one makes them stink! ;) > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a dog/cat owner? From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Mon Dec 10 23:48:14 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A9A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <000f01c1819c$28687460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C159E1E.E9CBC198@verizon.net> Dick, You've got plenty of other nasty stuff in the air in machine shops too. Smoking cutting oils, mist coolant drift, etc. One way to keep the gunk from being drawn through the drives is to leave the cover off the case. With an extra fan inside blowing across the boards, keeps everything cool enough. Ian Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a > convert, as they say ... I don't know about truly Classic (pre-Apple/pre-CP/M) > hardware in this context, but from my experience with current hardware, i.e. > PC's with a fan at the back of the PSU that exhausts air that's drawn in through > the front-loading peripherals, I'd make the following comment. > > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > accumulation of dirt on the optic. In those few cases where (a) I knew the user > to be a frequent smoker, and (b) where I could smell the smoke on the innards of > the drive, I normally found that I couldn't clean the optic with anything I > dared put near the quite soluble plastics used in the drive and specifically in > the laser pickup. > > Likewise, I often have seen and smelled what was obviously tabacco smoke residue > on floppy disk innards. Those were easily cleaned, with the exception of the > heads, which in the cases where they were visibly stained (and it's not easy to > look at the heads, but, once they're visible, the damage is easy to see) with > what appeared to be smoke residue, and that generally has rendered the drives > unreliable. The environment in which I most frequently encountered this problem > was a machine shop where things were none too clean anyway, but the mousepad > showed plenty of evidence of a cigarette being held 2" in front of the end of > the box where the CDROM and FDD resided. It was no wonder the CDROM and FDD > smelled like a very dirty ashtray. > > This is largely the product of the stupid, Stupid, STUPID practice of putting > the fan in the PSU such that it exhausts the system in the way in which it does. > I routinely turn the fan around, and, in fact, on at least two of my boxes, have > put a second fan outside the PSU, with a filter between the two. This has quite > remarkably reduced the accumulation of dirt in the PSU as in the rest of the > box. It does make for a bit more noise, as the two fans tend to "beat" due to > the difference in speed. I once made a crude effort to measure the temperature > effect of doing this, and found the results favorable, since the reduced > presence of dirt meant freer airflow against the surfaces of the IC's that > required cooling in the box. I like to believe the conclusion I drew was > correct, but it was what I expected to find, so take it for what it's worth. > > Tobacco smoke is VERY sticky and VERY pervasive, and should be kept out of > computer hardware, even if only because it's so nasty and hard to remove. This > can be accomplished, if you don't want to turn around your PSU fan, by taping a > piece of paper towel to the front of your hardware so it requires the air to > flow THROUGH the paper towel, rather than going, unimpeded, through your > front-loading peripherals. That's probably adequate. Some cases once had a > sliding cover that protected these peripherals from the hazard of smoke and > other airborne pollutants. The air will still get into your computer, since its > box isn't air-tight, but at least it won't flow through the devices that would > be damaged most by it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas Quebbeman" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:40 AM > Subject: RE: Smoking around computers > > > > > From: Tony Duell > > > > > > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! > > > > > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > > > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > > > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) > > > > > > OTOH, audio gear seems to be very susceptible to my smoke, and I have to > > > clean all the switches and pots every three months or so. > > > > The early CDC disk drives (like many others I'm sure) has so > > much room between platters you could stick your hand in there, > > and enough room between the flying heads and the platter that > > neither smoke nor dust was a problem. One CDC engineer remarked > > to me about how they usually be smoking a cigarette while they > > were *polishing* the platters (yes, I know about the stiction > > cure joke, Lemon Pledge and all that). Which reminds me of an > > MPEG that Elsa included with the Winner3000 drivers... you > > watch this video, you'll think it's cigarettes that they're > > selling... > > > > -dq > > > > From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Mon Dec 10 23:49:39 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: Message-ID: <3C159E73.90E4216E@verizon.net> > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. you're somewhere around Berkley, right? "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a > > convert, as they say ... > > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > > D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. From jss at subatomix.com Mon Dec 10 23:49:57 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011210234727.L69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > Does anyone know where I might find prints for a PDP-11/70? The only thing I've ever found was at http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ but the PDP-11/70 printset there is an early version with a KB11-B CPU. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 10 23:50:45 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Question about older keyboards. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Ernest wrote: > > > > I have an old keyboard with those soldered on keycap assemblies. One of the > key mechanisms broke off and now I'm receiving random characters on the It is not altogether clear to me whether the entire key mechanism is missing (broken off or unsoldered from the board) or whether it is only the key cap. If the latter, there is a good chance that the key cap acted as a retainer for the retract spring that keeps the switch from closing with out finger pressure. If this is the case, you might use a straight pin or equivalent to make sure that the plunger part of the mechanism is help in the retracted position. Then power up, and note the results. If it is the `totally gone' problem, I'd harken to Tony's remarks! - don > screen. The missing key is the #3 key. Could the fact that this mechanism is > missing cause this kind of problem, or would the computer see that missing > key as un-pressed but otherwise no problem. Some other part of the keyboard > my be broken but I'm trying to narrow down where to begin trouble shooting. > When I turn the computer on, it sort of runs amuck as though I were pressing > a bunch of random keys but then quiets down after start up but refuses to > let me type anything. Plus, on the screen are 10 to 20 mixed letters and > numbers on the line were I am supposed to enter a command -load, save, run, > etc. > > E. > > From jss at subatomix.com Mon Dec 10 23:55:31 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: <15380.64853.294164.407701@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011210235400.U69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 10, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > > > He is most likely speaking of the SunRescue list. > > I think Bill no longer considers it really Sun-specific, Linc.. I tried it for a few hours, but found the message load to be too much for my tastes. Think about getting a classiccmp day every *hour*. Or maybe that was the geeks list. I don't remember. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 00:07:08 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20011210234727.L69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > Does anyone know where I might find prints for a PDP-11/70? > > The only thing I've ever found was at > > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ > > but the PDP-11/70 printset there is an early version with a KB11-B CPU. Actually, the earlier the better. I want to do it *old* but *fast*. Peace... Sridhar From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 11 00:10:10 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:42 2005 Subject: A hypothetical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011211000521.R69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > University of Texas surplus auctions were a good place to find old > gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer > equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer > gear to the prison system. Hm. I got a *bunch* of classiccmp stuff from an University of Texas auction earlier this spring. Maybe the prisons did not want the stuff. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From dittman at dittman.net Tue Dec 11 00:10:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <3C159C67.D4BA0C5F@socal.rr.com> from "charles hobbs" at Dec 10, 2001 09:40:55 PM Message-ID: <200112110610.fBB6A1E23193@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > On December 9, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! > > > > > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > > > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > > > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) > > > > It makes them STINK! > > > > Actually either one makes them stink! ;) > > > > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a > dog/cat owner? All the time (we have several cats). I've never had any cat hair in my systems, since I don't allow the cats in the computer room (except for my favorite cat, who likes to sleep in his basket in the corner or on the back of my chair while I'm in there). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 9 22:41:18 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <15381.607.234109.44847@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C159C67.D4BA0C5F@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3C143CEE.AC840F9@jetnet.ab.ca> charles hobbs wrote: > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On December 9, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! > > > > > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > > > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > > > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) > > > > It makes them STINK! > > > > Actually either one makes them stink! ;) > > > > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a > dog/cat owner? Yes they to tend to collect the fur... ( Shakes out keyboard ). But still better than smoke! Keeping the Magic Smoke in the Computer helps too. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 11 00:28:33 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: A hypothetical In-Reply-To: <20011211000521.R69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > > > University of Texas surplus auctions were a good place to find old > > gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer > > equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer > > gear to the prison system. > > Hm. I got a *bunch* of classiccmp stuff from an University of Texas > auction earlier this spring. Maybe the prisons did not want the stuff. Which auction? The Houston surplus people interpret the bill's text as meaning *all* computer stuff, instead of just stuff that is worth resale. They send everything from a goldfish bowl Mac or Apple II to an AS-400 IBM mainframe to the prisons. The bill is written quite vague too, I'll look and see if I can find the link for it that I had. -Toth From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 11 00:29:14 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: A hypothetical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011211001741.F69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Let's say a DEC PDP-1 comes up for auction. The economy is good and > times are stable. > > What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1? I cannot comprehend a limit; the concept seems alien. Simply put, I'd pay every last cent I could pay. Unfortunately, someone else would inevitably be able to pay more. Were this forum Slashdot, this comment would be modded "-1, Redundant". -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 11 00:31:19 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <15381.2843.234370.190243@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011211002924.F69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> So... when I start disassembling the 11/44 I have in storage in order to transport it to its new home, need I fear it? Or should the caps have negligible charge after half a year in storage? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From leec at slip.net Tue Dec 11 00:42:40 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Happy DEC-10 Day! In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8F37@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: Personal preference but I'll wait 10 more days before celebrating. DECSystem 20(50) operator and user at UTArlington 1976-79. Lee Courtney Engineering Manager Phone: (408) 328-9238 MontaVista Software, Inc. Fax: (408) 328-9204 1237 E. Arques Web: www.hardhatlinux.com Sunnyvale, CA 94087 Email: lcourtney@mvista.com Check out the embedded Linux experts at http://www.hardhatlinux.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Corda Albert J DLVA > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:03 PM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'; rescue@sunhelp.org > Subject: Happy DEC-10 Day! > > > > Happy DEC-10 Day to all that remember > the venerable olde beaste! > > Some of my happiest memories of college > (WPI) involved hacking on the poor thing > back in `73-`77... > > -al- > -acorda@1bigred.com > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 11 00:59:33 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <20011211002924.F69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > So... when I start disassembling the 11/44 I have in storage in order to > transport it to its new home, need I fear it? Or should the caps have > negligible charge after half a year in storage? I'm not familiar with PDP gear, but if the outputs are just 5-24vdc, I wouldn't worry too much. I might still check them with a volt meter, just to make sure. For any high voltage outputs, 100V+, I would put a jumper clip lead across them if they have large filter caps, and they are not connected to anything that could draw them down. Large hv caps have been known to build up a charge on their own, given enough time. I would think that Digital would have put bleeder resistors across any such caps and outputs, but you never know... If ya do jumper any outputs, make sure you put a tag on the equipment as a reminder of the jumpers...you don't want to fry anything when it gets powered up ;) -Toth From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 01:22:24 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: Re: Rescue list? (Jeffrey S. Sharp) References: <15380.64853.294164.407701@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20011210235400.U69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <15381.46128.14235.404305@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 10, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > I tried it for a few hours, but found the message load to be too much for > my tastes. Think about getting a classiccmp day every *hour*. Or maybe > that was the geeks list. I don't remember. It certainly spikes that high, but it's not usually that bad. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From fernande at internet1.net Tue Dec 11 01:20:49 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Rescue list? References: <20011210235400.U69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C15B3D1.CC328FFF@internet1.net> Maybe that was Geeks. I'm not sure what the traffic on Geeks is, but Rescue hasn't been that busy lately. When Classiccmp went down this past week, my email count was radically lower. You may have been subscribed during working hours too..... that is the highest traffic time by my observations. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On December 10, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > > > > > He is most likely speaking of the SunRescue list. > > > > I think Bill no longer considers it really Sun-specific, Linc.. > > I tried it for a few hours, but found the message load to be too much for > my tastes. Think about getting a classiccmp day every *hour*. Or maybe > that was the geeks list. I don't remember. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 11 01:22:22 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <20011211043429.VKZF9714.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > > You got it from Sellam, right? ;>) I don't smoke or eat weed around my computers. Chips occasionally, but that's about it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 11 01:46:57 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: A hypothetical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011211013821.X70160-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > University of Texas surplus auctions were a good place to find old > > > gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer > > > equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer > > > gear to the prison system. > > > > Hm. I got a *bunch* of classiccmp stuff from an University of Texas > > auction earlier this spring. Maybe the prisons did not want the stuff. > > Which auction? The auction company was Swico Auctions (http://www.swicoauctions.com/), and the location was the "J. J. Pickle Research Campus" in Austin. They look to have just put a similar auction up on their site, slated for 01/23/2002. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 11 01:53:02 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011211014937.J70160-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > So... when I start disassembling the 11/44 I have in storage in order to > > transport it to its new home, need I fear it? Or should the caps have > > negligible charge after half a year in storage? > > I'm not familiar with PDP gear [...] I mean those particular 400V I-will-die-if-I-touch-these parts that were just (re)discussed. :-) I want to know for *sure* before I start taking that box apart! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Dec 11 01:52:08 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: VAX 6400 booting saga: how to transfer binaries to VMS with k ermit? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662AB@exc-reo1> > > %STDRV-I-STARTUP, OpenVMS startup begun at 10-DEC-2001 22:56:23.89 > %SYSGEN-E-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch - reassemble and > relink driver > -SYSGEN-I-DRIVENAM, driver name is SIDRIVER > %SYSGEN-E-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch - reassemble and > relink driver > -SYSGEN-I-DRIVENAM, driver name is SIDRIVER > > this driver version mismatch prevents me from doing a SYSGEN > etc. Where can I turn off dependency to this driver? That's the driver for the DMB32. To hide it from SYSGEN it just needs to be renamed: $ RENAME SYS$COMMON:[SYS$LDR]SIDRIVER.EXE SYS$COMMON:[SYS$LDR]SIDRIVER.OLD But just in case, it might be worth checking that you don't have more than one version lying around: $ DIR SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES:SIDRIVER.EXE Normally I would suggest purging down if multiple files are kicking around, but since this system is all you have, I'd go with renaming all of them and keeping the version numbers the same i.e. $ RENAME SYS$COMMON:[SYS$LDR]SIDRIVER.EXE;33 SYS$COMMON:[SYS$LDR]SIDRIVER.OLD;33 or whatever. The other WAN device drivers you won't care about are SJDRIVER, SLDRIVER, SFDRIVER, SEDRIVER, ZTDRIVER and ZWDRIVER ... actually I'm sure there are more, I've just mislaid my list! If SIDRIVER is out of date I guess that the rest will be too. However, I assume that SIDRIVER is getting dragged in because SYSGEN found a DMB32? Antonio From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 11 02:06:05 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Texas bill rel data processing equipment (was: Re: A hypothetical) In-Reply-To: <20011211013821.X70160-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > > > > > > > University of Texas surplus auctions were a good place to find old > > > > gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer > > > > equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer > > > > gear to the prison system. > > > > > > Hm. I got a *bunch* of classiccmp stuff from an University of Texas > > > auction earlier this spring. Maybe the prisons did not want the stuff. > > > > Which auction? > > The auction company was Swico Auctions (http://www.swicoauctions.com/), > and the location was the "J. J. Pickle Research Campus" in Austin. They > look to have just put a similar auction up on their site, slated for > 01/23/2002. Heres the info on the bill I mentioned: Bill: SB 1105 Legislative Session: 76(R) Enrolled 06/18/1999 E Effective on 9/1/99 Relating to repair and resale of certain data processing equipment. http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/db2www/tlo/billhist/billhist.d2w/report?LEG=76&SESS=R&CHAMBER=S&BILLTYPE=B&BILLSUFFIX=01105 -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Dec 11 02:19:54 2001 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <20011211014937.J70160-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > > So... when I start disassembling the 11/44 I have in storage in order to > > > transport it to its new home, need I fear it? Or should the caps have > > > negligible charge after half a year in storage? > > > > I'm not familiar with PDP gear [...] > > I mean those particular 400V I-will-die-if-I-touch-these parts that were > just (re)discussed. :-) I want to know for *sure* before I start taking > that box apart! Well, for that kind of voltage, I would certainly check a cap with a volt meter before I would touch its leads. I would probably keep those caps shorted with a jumper clip lead while working on a disconnected power supply or if connections to those caps would be exposed when breaking the unit down for transport. -Toth From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Dec 11 02:40:29 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: <20011210235400.U69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> References: <15380.64853.294164.407701@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20011210235400.U69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <20011211024029.D25133@mrbill.net> On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 11:55:31PM -0600, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > I tried it for a few hours, but found the message load to be too much for > my tastes. Think about getting a classiccmp day every *hour*. Or maybe > that was the geeks list. I don't remember. Actually, classiccmp generates about 2x-3x the traffic of rescue or geeks, except on a really busy day. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From bqt at update.uu.se Tue Dec 11 03:11:46 2001 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: VAX 8650 want a good home ... In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706629A@exc-reo1> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > > Well, if you tell us what you're looking for, we might just > > find it. > > Docs & prints would be nice :-) That is always nice, yes. :-) I do have some FS documentation, but no prints... > Must be one of the few major machines > for which virtually nothing seems to > be available on the net! It's pretty old, so I guess the problem lies partially with the fact that documentation was lost somewhat before the web became common, and documentation is mostly in paper form. Doubt DEC made that much accessible in electronic form. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From vcf at vintage.org Tue Dec 11 03:52:35 2001 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Anyone want a 386/33? Message-ID: Here's a guy in Minneapolis with a 386/33 to unload. Please reply directly to him. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:15:04 -0600 From: "Muscatello, Joel" To: 'Vintage Computer Festival' Subject: RE: Any need for a 386 computer? Hello. Thanks for your reply. I am located in Minneapolis, MN. I would appreciate any help you could give me in finding a way to get rid of the machine. :-) Joel -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 10 19:44:42 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: References: <200112102304.PAA09126@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >Just busting your chops. There's nothing wrong with smoking something >that Mother Nature put on Earth. Shame on those that think otherwise. Nuts to that, smoking tobacco will kill you. From Diff at Mac.com Tue Dec 11 09:43:03 2001 From: Diff at Mac.com (Zach Malone) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: OT: Smoking References: <200112102304.PAA09126@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <00c001c1825a$85ca9c00$6501a8c0@laboffice> Yeah, Does it bother you that much if someone else is smoking though? In all honesty, IMHO people should be allowed to smoke, ingest, or shoot up with whatever they feel like, as long as they are not harming others. Sure, the smoke smells horrible, and I dislike being around people who are smoking (this is also due to the second hand smoke issue), but I have no problem with it. Zach ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Smoking around computers > >Just busting your chops. There's nothing wrong with smoking something > >that Mother Nature put on Earth. Shame on those that think otherwise. > > Nuts to that, smoking tobacco will kill you. > > From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Dec 11 10:13:40 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking In-Reply-To: <00c001c1825a$85ca9c00$6501a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: I feel the same way Zach, even being an ex-smoker but when someone ingests/shoots/snorts/etc a substance that makes them a danger to the general public like it does if a person is stoned or drunk and on the road with me and my family then I tend to feel like personally tying them to a stake in front of a firing squad. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zach Malone -> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:43 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: OT: Smoking -> -> -> Yeah, -> Does it bother you that much if someone else is smoking -> though? In all -> honesty, IMHO people should be allowed to smoke, ingest, or shoot up with -> whatever they feel like, as long as they are not harming others. -> Sure, the -> smoke smells horrible, and I dislike being around people who are smoking -> (this is also due to the second hand smoke issue), but I have no problem -> with it. -> Zach -> -> ----- Original Message ----- -> From: "Mike Ford" -> To: -> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:44 PM -> Subject: Re: Smoking around computers -> -> -> > >Just busting your chops. There's nothing wrong with smoking something -> > >that Mother Nature put on Earth. Shame on those that think otherwise. -> > -> > Nuts to that, smoking tobacco will kill you. -> > -> > -> -> From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 12:18:04 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: OT: Smoking In-Reply-To: OT: Smoking (Zach Malone) References: <200112102304.PAA09126@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <00c001c1825a$85ca9c00$6501a8c0@laboffice> Message-ID: <15382.19932.815292.970996@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Zach Malone wrote: > Does it bother you that much if someone else is smoking though? In all > honesty, IMHO people should be allowed to smoke, ingest, or shoot up with > whatever they feel like, as long as they are not harming others. Sure, the > smoke smells horrible, and I dislike being around people who are smoking > (this is also due to the second hand smoke issue), but I have no problem > with it. I can effectively "tune it out" and ignore it when I'm around it, which I consider myself lucky to be able to to...but I don't like when people I care about are smoking, because I know people who have been killed by it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Dec 11 10:08:55 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So will anything else, to include breathing air (clean or dirty) - seems anything we do/eat/intake/consume, or not consuming certain things, eventually causes death - essentially a long slow oxidation of a carbon based entity. My parents passed in their mid 60's, one from smoking related cancer (Mom smoked 1 pack a week from 20 to 55) but Dad died from a genius OR tech that allowed a gauze sponge to remain in the chest cavity after surgery for an anurism - he smoked 2 packs a day from 11 (yup that young) till he went into the hospital for the surgery. He also had a high stress job as a Chicago cop for over 30 yrs in all of the worst areas. Go figure on how light smoking did my mom in but my dad never had any smoking related illness/ailments ever. His autopsy showed that he smoked but yet there were no signs of cancer or serious damage to his heart or lungs. Hmmmm....seems everyone has different tolerances to most anything. I had an aunt die 8 yrs ago - never smoked in her life and always lived in a smokeless home. She died of lung cancer after 5 yrs of suffering with it and the chemo attempts to get rid of it. She was 40 when she died. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 7:45 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Smoking around computers -> -> -> >Just busting your chops. There's nothing wrong with smoking something -> >that Mother Nature put on Earth. Shame on those that think otherwise. -> -> Nuts to that, smoking tobacco will kill you. -> -> -> From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 06:14:57 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > > > > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > > > > > > > > I understand they're high in protein. Maybe this person ate them over > > > > their keyboard like others eat snacks? :) > > > > > > If they weren't eating snacks before they ate the marijuana seeds, they > > > certainly were afterwards. :-P > > > > Sounds like this comes from someone who knows? :) > > I'm less than two years away from my MD -- of course I know! ;-) Great... another reason to fear doctors! ;) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 06:28:19 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a > > > convert, as they say ... > > > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > > > > D'ya mean that retractable ashtray holder? > > > Gee ... I thought that was a cup holder ... Just wondering... do you drive a Volvo? ;) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 06:30:10 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Moth balls work too but you have to be careful holding the > moths down while you get their balls. Gosh, Russ, hadn't heard that one since I was teaching digital at RETS! ;) From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Dec 11 10:08:57 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Yeah I know, but GI's have a regular falir for bastardizing about anything they hear/see. I used to come up with all sorts of "cracks" when I was a military instructor (course instructor, not drill instructor) at Chanute in IL until it closed in 93. Heard of RETS in L'ville too, seems there's a rivalry between students that go to ITT Tech and RETS on who picked the right school. I worked with all sorts of them at Jabil Services in L'ville both times I've been out there. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Douglas Quebbeman -> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:30 AM -> To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' -> Subject: RE: Smoking around computers -> -> -> > Moth balls work too but you have to be careful holding the -> > moths down while you get their balls. -> -> Gosh, Russ, hadn't heard that one -> since I was teaching digital at RETS! -> -> ;) -> From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Tue Dec 11 07:24:43 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <3C143CEE.AC840F9@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <15381.607.234109.44847@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C159C67.D4BA0C5F@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20011211082443.00ff7e4c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 09:41 PM 12/9/01 -0700, Ben Franchuk wrote: >> Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a >> dog/cat owner? > Yes they to tend to collect the fur... ( Shakes out keyboard ). >But still better than smoke! Keeping the Magic Smoke in the Computer >helps too. One of the worst odors I've experienced was created when lots of cat hair were toasted inside the power supply of a friend's computer. The hairs finally got the fan stuck and temperature went up very quickly. Argghhh.. I said to myself, "that's no magic smoke!" . carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Dec 11 10:13:36 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <3C159E1E.E9CBC198@verizon.net> Message-ID: Oh heck yeah - I do industrial service on printers and PC's and along with the stuff you mention here I have a customer with a 5224 printer out on the production floor of a wood venier plant (very fine dust collects to everything) and one in a paper cutting room, etc. I don't go onsite anymore to these sites in Dockers and shirt/tie - it's strictly jeans and flannel shirt anymore. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ian Koller -> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 11:48 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org; Richard Erlacher -> Subject: Re: Smoking around computers -> -> -> -> -> Dick, -> -> You've got plenty of other nasty stuff in the air in -> machine shops too. Smoking cutting oils, mist coolant -> drift, etc. One way to keep the gunk from being drawn -> through the drives is to leave the cover off the case. -> With an extra fan inside blowing across the boards, -> keeps everything cool enough. -> -> -> Ian -> -> -> Richard Erlacher wrote: -> > -> > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no -> Catholic like a -> > convert, as they say ... I don't know about truly Classic -> (pre-Apple/pre-CP/M) -> > hardware in this context, but from my experience with current -> hardware, i.e. -> > PC's with a fan at the back of the PSU that exhausts air -> that's drawn in through -> > the front-loading peripherals, I'd make the following comment. -> > -> > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from -> > accumulation of dirt on the optic. In those few cases where -> (a) I knew the user -> > to be a frequent smoker, and (b) where I could smell the smoke -> on the innards of -> > the drive, I normally found that I couldn't clean the optic -> with anything I -> > dared put near the quite soluble plastics used in the drive -> and specifically in -> > the laser pickup. -> > -> > Likewise, I often have seen and smelled what was obviously -> tabacco smoke residue -> > on floppy disk innards. Those were easily cleaned, with the -> exception of the -> > heads, which in the cases where they were visibly stained (and -> it's not easy to -> > look at the heads, but, once they're visible, the damage is -> easy to see) with -> > what appeared to be smoke residue, and that generally has -> rendered the drives -> > unreliable. The environment in which I most frequently -> encountered this problem -> > was a machine shop where things were none too clean anyway, -> but the mousepad -> > showed plenty of evidence of a cigarette being held 2" in -> front of the end of -> > the box where the CDROM and FDD resided. It was no wonder the -> CDROM and FDD -> > smelled like a very dirty ashtray. -> > -> > This is largely the product of the stupid, Stupid, STUPID -> practice of putting -> > the fan in the PSU such that it exhausts the system in the way -> in which it does. -> > I routinely turn the fan around, and, in fact, on at least two -> of my boxes, have -> > put a second fan outside the PSU, with a filter between the -> two. This has quite -> > remarkably reduced the accumulation of dirt in the PSU as in -> the rest of the -> > box. It does make for a bit more noise, as the two fans tend -> to "beat" due to -> > the difference in speed. I once made a crude effort to -> measure the temperature -> > effect of doing this, and found the results favorable, since -> the reduced -> > presence of dirt meant freer airflow against the surfaces of -> the IC's that -> > required cooling in the box. I like to believe the conclusion -> I drew was -> > correct, but it was what I expected to find, so take it for -> what it's worth. -> > -> > Tobacco smoke is VERY sticky and VERY pervasive, and should be -> kept out of -> > computer hardware, even if only because it's so nasty and hard -> to remove. This -> > can be accomplished, if you don't want to turn around your PSU -> fan, by taping a -> > piece of paper towel to the front of your hardware so it -> requires the air to -> > flow THROUGH the paper towel, rather than going, unimpeded, -> through your -> > front-loading peripherals. That's probably adequate. Some -> cases once had a -> > sliding cover that protected these peripherals from the hazard -> of smoke and -> > other airborne pollutants. The air will still get into your -> computer, since its -> > box isn't air-tight, but at least it won't flow through the -> devices that would -> > be damaged most by it. -> > -> > ----- Original Message ----- -> > From: "Douglas Quebbeman" -> > To: -> > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:40 AM -> > Subject: RE: Smoking around computers -> > -> > > > > From: Tony Duell -> > > > -> > > > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! -> > > > -> > > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts -> for 20 years, and -> > > > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I -> prefer that -> > > > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) -> > > > -> > > > OTOH, audio gear seems to be very susceptible to my smoke, -> and I have to -> > > > clean all the switches and pots every three months or so. -> > > -> > > The early CDC disk drives (like many others I'm sure) has so -> > > much room between platters you could stick your hand in there, -> > > and enough room between the flying heads and the platter that -> > > neither smoke nor dust was a problem. One CDC engineer remarked -> > > to me about how they usually be smoking a cigarette while they -> > > were *polishing* the platters (yes, I know about the stiction -> > > cure joke, Lemon Pledge and all that). Which reminds me of an -> > > MPEG that Elsa included with the Winner3000 drivers... you -> > > watch this video, you'll think it's cigarettes that they're -> > > selling... -> > > -> > > -dq -> > > -> > > -> From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Dec 11 10:36:32 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF81@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: charles hobbs [mailto:chobbs@socal.rr.com] > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a > dog/cat owner? I have. Being a cat owner, I find that I need to clean my systems of cat-hair on a regular basis. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 09:59:32 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF81@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF81@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <01Dec11.121300est.119234@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a >> dog/cat owner? > >I have. Being a cat owner, I find that I need to clean my systems of >cat-hair on a regular basis. I've had the displeasure of working on machines used by someone with quite a large number of cats. As if all the cat hair in the carpet wasn't bad enough while crawling down to hook/unhook cables, the hair was also throughout everything from the keyboard and mouse to the CPU. Not just a few strands, but quite a lot of it. Quite nasty... Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 12:37:39 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: RE: Smoking around computers (Jeff Hellige) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF81@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <01Dec11.121300est.119234@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <15382.21107.774288.382878@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I've had the displeasure of working on machines used by > someone with quite a large number of cats. As if all the cat hair in > the carpet wasn't bad enough while crawling down to hook/unhook > cables, the hair was also throughout everything from the keyboard and > mouse to the CPU. Not just a few strands, but quite a lot of it. > Quite nasty... Hmm, I have a kitty who spends some time in the computer room...there's one particular machine in there that moves a LOT of air and needs its filters cleaned frequently, but aside from that I've had no issues with kitty fur. And even if that weren't the case...my cat is one of the best friends I've ever had, so if letting her go where she wants means some extra filter cleaning for me, then so be it! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 11 13:49:07 2001 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers and cats, what about... References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF81@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <01Dec11.121300est.119234@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3C166333.4F351EF@verizon.net> ROACHES! Two of the people I service computers bring me systems that tend to be roach-laden. My wife forces me to leave the boxes outside overnight before bringing them in for repair. Nothing like roach crap, carcuses in cobwebs and the occasional live critter running in and around the power supply. I litterly have to spray them out with air, and them clean out the insides. Roach-infested computers cost more to fix! ;) Eric Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a > >> dog/cat owner? > > > >I have. Being a cat owner, I find that I need to clean my systems of > >cat-hair on a regular basis. > > I've had the displeasure of working on machines used by > someone with quite a large number of cats. As if all the cat hair in > the carpet wasn't bad enough while crawling down to hook/unhook > cables, the hair was also throughout everything from the keyboard and > mouse to the CPU. Not just a few strands, but quite a lot of it. > Quite nasty... > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Dec 11 12:09:39 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:43 2005 Subject: [OT]Cameron Kaiser... In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF81@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: Can you email me please? g. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 11 10:58:18 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > You got it from Sellam, right? ;>) It was before I ever met Sellam. But all of the machines that I gavehim had dog hair. On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I don't smoke or eat weed around my computers. Chips occasionally, but > that's about it. So THAT's why the purple 1771s are so rare! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 10:58:33 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AC4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Yeah I know, but GI's have a regular falir for bastardizing about anything > they hear/see. I used to come up with all sorts of "cracks" when I was a > military instructor (course instructor, not drill instructor) at Chanute in > IL until it closed in 93. Heard of RETS in L'ville too, seems there's a > rivalry between students that go to ITT Tech and RETS on who picked the > right school. I worked with all sorts of them at Jabil Services in L'ville > both times I've been out there. yeah, RETS students who insist the ITT Tech students picked the right one... and vice-versa. ;) From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 11 11:00:56 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <200112110610.fBB6A1E23193@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a > > dog/cat owner? > All the time (we have several cats). I've never had any cat hair > in my systems, since I don't allow the cats in the computer room > (except for my favorite cat, who likes to sleep in his basket in > the corner or on the back of my chair while I'm in there). Unless they get into territorial marking, they don't stink them up much. But, expect cat and dog hair. In particular, expect cat hair in keyboards; cats take to keyboards like taxi drivers take to beaded seat cushions! From fernande at internet1.net Tue Dec 11 11:36:38 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: Message-ID: <3C164426.A96ED4C8@internet1.net> My cats have always been more intent on distracting me than playing with the computer, or sleep on it. They'll walk on the keyboard while I'm using it, or walk in my line of the monitor, etc. I think what happens with keyboards is that the cat hair settles in it from the air..... cat hair becomes air borne very easily. Since you can't really wipe the hair off from in between the keys.... like you can wipe the hair from the desk, so it just builds up. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Unless they get into territorial marking, they don't stink them up much. > > But, expect cat and dog hair. In particular, expect cat hair in > keyboards; cats take to keyboards like taxi drivers take to beaded seat > cushions! From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 11 12:25:25 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <3C164426.A96ED4C8@internet1.net> Message-ID: > > But, expect cat and dog hair. In particular, expect cat hair in > > keyboards; cats take to keyboards like taxi drivers take to beaded seat > > cushions! On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > My cats have always been more intent on distracting me than playing with > the computer, or sleep on it. They'll walk on the keyboard while I'm > using it, or walk in my line of the monitor, etc. > I think what happens with keyboards is that the cat hair settles in it > from the air..... cat hair becomes air borne very easily. Since you > can't really wipe the hair off from in between the keys.... like you can > wipe the hair from the desk, so it just builds up. I deal with all of the computers for the Berkeley East Bay Humane Society. The resident cats in the office all like to sleep on keyboards. I set them up with keyboard drawers whenever I can get them cheap, or they get donated (hint. HINT!) But training the office staff to shut the drawers when not in use isn't easy. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 11:05:39 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A6@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> I must say, with having two cats, I've never had a problem... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] ! Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:37 AM ! To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' ! Subject: RE: Smoking around computers ! ! ! > -----Original Message----- ! > From: charles hobbs [mailto:chobbs@socal.rr.com] ! ! > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a ! > dog/cat owner? ! ! I have. Being a cat owner, I find that I need to clean my systems of ! cat-hair on a regular basis. ! ! Regards, ! ! Chris ! ! ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer ! Amdocs - Champaign, IL ! ! /usr/bin/perl -e ' ! print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ! ' ! ! From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 11:33:25 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673AA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a ! > > dog/cat owner? ! > All the time (we have several cats). I've never had any cat hair ! > in my systems, since I don't allow the cats in the computer room ! > (except for my favorite cat, who likes to sleep in his basket in ! > the corner or on the back of my chair while I'm in there). ! ! Unless they get into territorial marking, they don't stink ! them up much. ! ! But, expect cat and dog hair. In particular, expect cat hair in ! keyboards; cats take to keyboards like taxi drivers take to ! beaded seat ! cushions! This is where a Keyboard tray comes in very handy! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Dec 9 23:11:06 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673AA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3C1443EA.A86A9B3D@jetnet.ab.ca> David Woyciesjes wrote: > This is where a Keyboard tray comes in very handy! Not when they figure they make a great pillow for napping. The still will find a way to be the center of attention. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 12:38:38 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673AB@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! David Woyciesjes wrote: ! > This is where a Keyboard tray comes in very handy! ! Not when they figure they make a great pillow for napping. The still ! will find a way to be the center of attention. ! -- ! Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- ! www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html Okay, I meant a keyboard tray that slides under the desk surface, or something like that... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 13:11:38 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673AC@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > > But, expect cat and dog hair. In particular, expect cat hair in ! > > keyboards; cats take to keyboards like taxi drivers take ! > > to beaded seat ! > > cushions! ! ! On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: ! > My cats have always been more intent on distracting me than ! > playing with ! > the computer, or sleep on it. They'll walk on the keyboard ! > while I'm ! > using it, or walk in my line of the monitor, etc. ! > I think what happens with keyboards is that the cat hair ! > settles in it ! > from the air..... cat hair becomes air borne very easily. Since you ! > can't really wipe the hair off from in between the keys.... ! > like you can ! > wipe the hair from the desk, so it just builds up. ! ! I deal with all of the computers for the Berkeley East Bay Humane ! Society. The resident cats in the office all like to sleep ! on keyboards. ! ! I set them up with keyboard drawers whenever I can get them ! cheap, or they ! get donated (hint. HINT!) But training the office staff to shut the ! drawers when not in use isn't easy. Hmmm, spring-loaded drawers? Low-stregth springs, of course. ;-) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 13:14:55 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673AD@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! Hmm, I have a kitty who spends some time in the computer ! room...there's one particular machine in there that moves a LOT of air ! and needs its filters cleaned frequently, but aside from that I've had ! no issues with kitty fur. ! ! And even if that weren't the case...my cat is one of the ! best friends ! I've ever had, so if letting her go where she wants means some extra ! filter cleaning for me, then so be it! Aww, isn't that so damned cute! :-P --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 13:10:56 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: RE: Smoking around computers (David Woyciesjes) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673AD@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <15382.23104.644749.647598@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! Hmm, I have a kitty who spends some time in the computer > ! room...there's one particular machine in there that moves a LOT of air > ! and needs its filters cleaned frequently, but aside from that I've had > ! no issues with kitty fur. > ! > ! And even if that weren't the case...my cat is one of the > ! best friends > ! I've ever had, so if letting her go where she wants means some extra > ! filter cleaning for me, then so be it! > > Aww, isn't that so damned cute! :-P I'm going to uuencode a fart and email it to you! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 11 13:54:31 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <15382.23104.644749.647598@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm going to uuencode a fart and email it to you! Don't bother: http://www.farts.com/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 14:22:52 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: RE: Smoking around computers (Sellam Ismail) References: <15382.23104.644749.647598@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15382.27420.725073.255148@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I'm going to uuencode a fart and email it to you! > > Don't bother: > > http://www.farts.com/ fear -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 13:20:17 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673AE@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > ! And even if that weren't the case...my cat is one of the ! > ! best friends ! > ! I've ever had, so if letting her go where she wants means ! > ! some extra ! > ! filter cleaning for me, then so be it! ! > ! > Aww, isn't that so damned cute! :-P ! ! I'm going to uuencode a fart and email it to you! ! ! -Dave That's fine. I've got a cold, and a stuffy node right now... ;-) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Dec 11 13:21:12 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: In a message dated Tue, 11 Dec 2001 2:17:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, David Woyciesjes writes: > ! Hmm, I have a kitty who spends some time in the computer > ! room...there's one particular machine in there that moves a LOT of air > ! and needs its filters cleaned frequently, but aside from that I've had > ! no issues with kitty fur. > ! > ! And even if that weren't the case...my cat is one of the > ! best friends > ! I've ever had, so if letting her go where she wants means some extra > ! filter cleaning for me, then so be it! > > Aww, isn't that so damned cute! :-P > > --- David A Woyciesjes Hey now.. Ophilia is cute - just ask her and she'll tell ya herself! :-) From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 11 13:38:46 2001 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <20011210041651.NYMF8530.imf15bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> <01Dec10.134636est.119223@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3C1660C6.155F34E8@verizon.net> Worse case I saw was a keyboard. An Apple Extended II, IIRC. I never thought it could hold that much ash! I opened it and poured it out. A mound about 2 inches high and 3 inches in diameter. Really sort of gross. It reeked of tobacco as well. Smoking doesn't kill computers, just their users. Eric Jeff Hellige wrote: > >I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > >I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > >computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) > > It certainly could turn beige cases some nasty yellow colors though > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Dec 11 04:58:22 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: VAX 8650 want a good home ... References: Message-ID: <00c401c18232$c2975d80$0300a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnny Billquist" 8650 are an ECL machine if I recall correctly, so I hope you have good air conditioning! Cheers Geoff in Oz (Who really must look into getting his 8530 going - soon as I find a console cable for it) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 06:13:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. *I* could enjoy programming in BASIC on an IBM Portable, too, if I was sitting in a storage unit filled with the kind of goodies you've got in *yours*, Sridhar! With all that iron, ya gotta throw a party sometime soon! -dq From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 12:25:33 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: RE: I've discovered a new pleasure. (Douglas Quebbeman) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15382.20381.618443.478420@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > With all that iron, ya gotta throw a party sometime soon! Nah, Sridhar doesn't know how to party...do you, Sridhar. ;) Perhaps we can give him some party lessons. 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 09:25:28 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A0@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! On December 10, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: ! > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my ! > storage locker with ! > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer ! > (thanks again, Jeff) ! > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. ! ! Uhhhh ! ! Sridhar, you ok man? ! ! -Dave I dunno, Dave. When he picked up that VaxServer3100 from me yesterday, he did have a funny look on his face, right before he went into the pizza shop... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 12:30:11 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: RE: I've discovered a new pleasure. (David Woyciesjes) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A0@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <15382.20659.614514.580021@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my > ! > storage locker with > ! > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer > ! > (thanks again, Jeff) > ! > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > ! > ! Uhhhh > ! > ! Sridhar, you ok man? > > I dunno, Dave. When he picked up that VaxServer3100 from me yesterday, he > did have a funny look on his face, right before he went into the pizza > shop... Before I moved to FL, Sridhar and Brian Hechinger came down to hang out and hack on stuff, and crashed on my couches. Late the next morning, I walk into the living room to find Sridhar just waking up. He sits up, gets what is likely that very same funny look on his face, and says "NAME THY FECES!!" I think the boy needs to eat more beef and less plantlife. All that chlorophyll is getting into his brain. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Tue Dec 11 06:52:26 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Availability of DSP56K chips In-Reply-To: <4e.325aa6e.294669fa@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20011211075226.00fe4488@obregon.multi.net.co> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3204 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/24b40bab/attachment.bin From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 13:52:55 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673B0@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > ! Dave McGuire wrote... ! > ! And even if that weren't the case...my cat is one of the ! > ! best friends I've ever had, so if letting her go where she ! > ! wants means some extra filter cleaning for me, then so be it! ! > ! > Aww, isn't that so damned cute! :-P ! > ! > --- David A Woyciesjes ! ! Hey now.. Ophilia is cute - just ask her and she'll tell ya ! herself! :-) Wait sec there buddy... Never said cats weren't cute (my lil' Isabelle is the best!) I was just commenting on Dave M. being such a pushover for his kitties... :) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 14:02:48 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: RE: Smoking around computers (David Woyciesjes) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673B0@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <15382.26216.175149.611748@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! > ! Dave McGuire wrote... > ! > ! And even if that weren't the case...my cat is one of the > ! > ! best friends I've ever had, so if letting her go where she > ! > ! wants means some extra filter cleaning for me, then so be it! > ! > > ! > Aww, isn't that so damned cute! :-P > ! > > ! > --- David A Woyciesjes > ! > ! Hey now.. Ophilia is cute - just ask her and she'll tell ya > ! herself! :-) > > Wait sec there buddy... Never said cats weren't cute (my lil' Isabelle is > the best!) I was just commenting on Dave M. being such a pushover for his > kitties... > :) Yeah, I admit it, she controls me... -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 14:34:33 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673B3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> That's funny! [Ctrl][D]... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] ! Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:55 PM ! To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' ! Subject: RE: Smoking around computers ! ! ! On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: ! ! > I'm going to uuencode a fart and email it to you! ! ! Don't bother: ! ! http://www.farts.com/ ! ! Sellam Ismail Vintage ! Computer Festival ! -------------------------------------------------------------- ! ---------------- ! International Man of Intrigue and Danger ! http://www.vintage.org ! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 06:54:02 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > On 2001.12.10 16:19 Christopher Smith wrote: > > > > > > KA410-A V1.2 > > > > F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1_.. > > > > > > ?DKA0... > > KA410-W V2.3 > > > > F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5?..4_..3_..2_..1?.. > > > > > > ? E 0040 0000.0045 > > ? D 0050 0000.0005 > > ? C 0080 0000.4001 > > ?? 5 0001 0000.0002 > > ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 > > > > >>> b dka2 > > > > > > -DKA2 > > > > >> NetBSD/vax boot [Jul 29 2000 02:31:03] << > > >> Press any key to abort autoboot 0 > > > boot netbsd > > -- > > > **** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 **** > 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE > > READY. e NEW LOGIN EW...NOT HW -T / . I U P U I 1080 602A (04) 18:26:37 TTY2 system 1111 Please LOGIN or ATTACH DISCONNECT e NEW LOGIN EW...NOT HW -W / 77/07/06. 18.50.53. INDIANA UNIVERSITY - LEVEL 9. KRONOS 2.1-397/397 USER NUMBER: 1941 INITIALS: DHQ PASSWORD: XXXXX IMPROPER LOGIN, TRY AGAIN. DISCONNECT From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 09:48:43 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > > > > KA410-A V1.2 ! > > > > F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1_.. ! > > > ! > > > ?DKA0... ! > > KA410-W V2.3 ! > > ! > > F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5?..4_..3_..2_..1?.. ! > > ! > > ! > > ? E 0040 0000.0045 ! > > ? D 0050 0000.0005 ! > > ? C 0080 0000.4001 ! > > ?? 5 0001 0000.0002 ! > > ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 ! > > ! > > >>> b dka2 ! > > ! > > ! > > -DKA2 ! > > ! > > >> NetBSD/vax boot [Jul 29 2000 02:31:03] << ! > > >> Press any key to abort autoboot 0 ! > > > boot netbsd ! > > -- ! > ! > ! > **** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 **** ! > 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE ! > ! > READY. Staring Windows 98 ... C:\> @ ECHO OFF Windows Protetion Fault... You didn't pay your fees. Please let the big ape-guys in the front door to collect. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Dec 11 10:39:35 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: testing References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <005a01c18262$b46c8020$030101ac@boll.casema.net> F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5?..4_..3_..2_..1?.. ? E 0040 0000.0045 ? D 0050 0000.0005 ? C 0080 0000.4001 ?? 5 0001 0000.0002 ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 > b dka2 -DKA2 bootstrap ..... Deep Thought v31.45 And the ANSWER is ............................ .............................................................. .............................................................. .............................................................. .............................................................. .............................................................. .............................................................. .............................................................. .............................................................. 42 ! (no need for further testsing!) Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 11:40:00 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AC6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5?..4_..3_..2_..1?.. > > ? E 0040 0000.0045 > ? D 0050 0000.0005 > ? C 0080 0000.4001 > ?? 5 0001 0000.0002 > ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 > > > b dka2 > > -DKA2 > > bootstrap ..... Deep Thought v31.45 > > And the ANSWER is ............................ > .............................................................. > .............................................................. > .............................................................. > .............................................................. > .............................................................. > .............................................................. > .............................................................. > .............................................................. > 42 ! Feynman lives! From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 11 13:09:14 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: testing References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AC6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <002201c18277$533fe520$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> 42 ! > Feynman lives! Doug Adams, right? Or is there some link to Ofey I missed? John A. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 14:11:01 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225ACF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > >> 42 ! > > Feynman lives! > > Doug Adams, right? > Or is there some link to Ofey I missed? I found out about Richard Feynman's propensity to yell out "42" as the answer to anything andf everything from one of Douglas Hofstadter's books; probably not G.E.B., but likely his duet with Daniel Dennet, "Mind's I". It *may*, tho, have been in "Metamagical Themas", the compilation of his columns from SciAm. In a very depressing time, dealing with a very, very depressing subject, Richard Feynman provided me with the greatest sense of glee I can recall. While George Meany (or whomever the shirt was who was heading the Challenger Disaster Panel) was going through the motions, I was carefully watching an otherwise bored Feynman start to play with the sample of rubber from the o-ring seals. I saw him look at his glass of icewater, and before I could form the though "stick it in the ice- water" he was doing it, and then immediately started to check his watch. After a while, he raised his hand or interrupted, can't quite recall which, and declared he knew what had caused the disaster. I'd give up all of Congress for one Richard Feynman. -dq From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Tue Dec 11 08:15:24 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: ABS type glue / was ASR-33 Message-ID: There is a new multi-part bonder called "cyanopoxy" that can even glue nylon and "slippery engineering plastics" such as Delrin. It is, however, quite expensive -- $48.50 w/s&h for a small quantity; see www.mrhobby.com. I learned about it in an article in "Railroad Model Craftsman" magazine. Looks good and might work to glue broken switch paddles, but I haven't used it myself. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Smith [mailto:ip500@home.com] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:41 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: ABS type glue / was ASR-33 Check out a sporting goods store that sells whitewater canoes. Most are made from ABS of some sort [Royalite, Royaltex, Oltenar] all come from basic ABS sandwich stock. They should have a really tough glue for mounting tie points and thigh harness to the bottom of the interior. IN my experience .. NOTHING else will bond to the ABS. Tothwolf wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > Anyway, the metal on both machines seems to be in good shape, but the > > plastic leaves something to be desired. The ASR is mostly just dirty, > > but there is a crack at the left rear screw position. The KSR is > > cleaner as it was used less, but it was stored improperly in a box and > > dropped or something and the plastic upper case (the gray case, not > > the white/yellow cover over the carriage) is broken into several > > pieces. So does anybody have recommendations as to glue or other > > solutions? Is someone sitting on a big stock of spare upper shells? > > Use a glue specially for ABS plastic. Most so-called plastic and model > glues are for polystyrene and won't bond ABS since they are not strong > enough. Let me know what you find, since I'm also looking for glue to use > on tons of broken ABS cases. I've been told that there is a glue made for > an ABS type of drain pipe. PVC glue won't work either, it tends to damage > ABS plastics. > > -Toth From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Dec 11 08:30:39 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:45 2005 Subject: AltairDOS information Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587A021@MAIL10> Hi: I'm preparing for the 2.1 release of the Altair32 Emulator and am finishing up the help files. I have manuals for Microsoft BASIC and CP/M 2.2 but I have nothing on Altair DOS. Does anyone have a copy of this manual either in physical or electronic form that I can have? Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Dec 11 08:38:13 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: MIPS RISComputer M/120 In-Reply-To: ; from gwynp@artware.qc.ca on Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 05:59:07PM -0500 References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF79@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20011211083813.A7770016@uiuc.edu> I think I have a couple QIC tapes with something (maybe risc/os?) on them for this like of machines. if you (or someone else?) are interesed, let me know and I'll look for them... gwynp@artware.qc.ca said: > > On 10-Dec-2001 Christopher Smith wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > > > I have -- in various stages of repair -- three MIPS RISComputers. The > > model is M/120. I'm in need of an operating system (and maybe even > > software :) that will run on these. > RISC/os is what you want. It's a derivative of BSD, iirc. > > > They were given to me without hard drives. Any ideas? > > Any SCSI-1 drive should work. 50 pin headers. > > > One of them has two or three (don't remember) RAM boards, and one has > > five. The third has no RAM, and I wonder whether I could divide the > > boards between them and still have something reasonable. > > The boards are 8 mb each. > > IMHO, with the noise these things make, put all the RAM boards you can > (max 6) into one of them, and use it. Others serving as spare parts. > > -Philip - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/84e16dc4/attachment.bin From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 09:32:46 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A1@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! Actually, the earlier the better. I want to do it *old* but *fast*. ! ! Peace... Sridhar Sridhar --- Okay, we know you're missing a missus, but isn't that a little strange? ;) --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 10:46:20 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AC2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > ! Actually, the earlier the better. I want to do it *old* but *fast*. > ! > ! Peace... Sridhar > > Sridhar --- > Okay, we know you're missing a missus, but isn't that a little > strange? ;) Dangol'- may, december thing- tellyuhwhat. ;) From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 11:24:43 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A8@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > ! Actually, the earlier the better. I want to do it *old* ! > ! but *fast*. ! > ! ! > ! Peace... Sridhar ! > ! > Sridhar --- ! > Okay, we know you're missing a missus, but isn't that a little ! > strange? ;) ! ! Dangol'- may, december thing- tellyuhwhat. ! ! ;) What? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Dec 11 10:29:31 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Free DEC stuff in Milpitas CA Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF80@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi, I have a friend who may be interested if you're willing to ship some of the stuff. Since you didn't mention shipping, I thought I'd ask. I would be interested in the VMS docsets, myself. Otherwise, unfortunately, I don't know anyone in the area. Thanks, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: bob@jfcl.com [mailto:bob@jfcl.com] > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 7:57 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Free DEC stuff in Milpitas CA > > > > I have the following mostly (but not all) DEC stuff to give > away FREE. > All you have to do is pick it up in Milpitas CA (next door to > San Jose). > > * A VAXstation-2000. No disks (you'll need to find an > RD5x/3x for it). > No guarantees of condition, either, but then it is free :-) > > * A VAXstation-3100/30. No disks (but you can use almost any > SCSI drive). > No guarantees of condition, either, but then it is free :-) > > * A Sophia Systems SA-2000 8-bit ICE. This is a self > contained CP/M machine > from the early 80s in a "luggable" case something like the > KayPro or Osborne. > Includes SA-DOS boot diskettes but no pods (it boots and > runs just fine with > out them). > > * A DECmate-II RX50 system (no hard disk) WITHOUT the 6120 > CPU chip. System > unit only - no monitor or keyboard. > > * About half a dozen DEC orange binders (empty). > > * A MicroVMS (VMS v4.x) manual set, in orange binders. > > * Most of an OpenVMS v7.x manual set (perfect bound). > > * A padded, sound proof printer enclosure for a 14" dot > matrix printer, > including a fan. > > I only read this list in digest form, and I'm way behind on that, so > please write to me directly if you're interested in anything. > > Bob > From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 11 10:39:31 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: <20011211024029.D25133@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20011211103714.D71156-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 11:55:31PM -0600, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > I tried it for a few hours, but found the message load to be too much for > > my tastes. Think about getting a classiccmp day every *hour*. Or maybe > > that was the geeks list. I don't remember. > > Actually, classiccmp generates about 2x-3x the traffic of rescue or > geeks, except on a really busy day. Well, you *are* the authoritative person for such figures, so I think I'll hop back on. :-) That probably was the geeks list I tried. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 10:56:20 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AC3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Yeah, > Does it bother you that much if someone else is smoking though? In all > honesty, IMHO people should be allowed to smoke, ingest, or shoot up with > whatever they feel like, as long as they are not harming others. Sure, the > smoke smells horrible, and I dislike being around people who are smoking > (this is also due to the second hand smoke issue), but I have no problem > with it. Agreed... but if they blow smoke in my face, I'm likely to have a "milkshake accident" in their direction (that's where someone tells you a funny while you've got a mouth- full of milkshake, and well, you probably get the idea). -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 11:37:51 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: HP-Compaq Merger: All But Dead? (Was: RE: Smoking) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AC5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I feel the same way Zach, even being an ex-smoker but when someone > ingests/shoots/snorts/etc a substance that makes them a danger to the > general public like it does if a person is stoned or drunk and on the road > with me and my family then I tend to feel like personally tying them to a > stake in front of a firing squad. Agreed. I also feel that way about most proposed corporate mergers. Carly Fiorina is currently tops on the stakeout list... and it would appear that the Packard Foundation has joined with the Hewlett and Packard famlies in opposing the merger. Peter Coffee was talking about it in McNeil-Lehrer last night, and he seems to think the old-time techies who recall HP from their early days, and whom are now enjoying higher positions in many companies, are also actively opposing the merger. The consensus is that the technology what results from the merged firms will run only Windows and use only Intel processors, and that's (wisely) perceived as a negative. When technology abandons diversity, I think I'll abandon technology (unless it's vintage). -dq From Golemancd at aol.com Tue Dec 11 11:49:47 2001 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: apple 11c power supply Message-ID: <92.1eb5f802.2947a13b@aol.com> anyone know what the power supply amps are for the apple 11c i have the pin out and i know it is 15v but how many amps or ma joee From allain at panix.com Tue Dec 11 13:16:07 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: apple 11c power supply References: <92.1eb5f802.2947a13b@aol.com> Message-ID: <004a01c18278$49ac4e80$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >anyone know what the power supply amps are for the apple 11c Apple printed "1.2A" (1200mA) on it. John A. From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Dec 11 14:29:35 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: apple 11c power supply In-Reply-To: <92.1eb5f802.2947a13b@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011211152812.00b1e200@mail.wincom.net> At 12:49 PM 12/11/2001 -0500, you wrote: >anyone know what the power supply amps are for the apple 11c >i have the pin out and i know it is 15v but how many amps or ma >joee Output 15 V, 1.2 A, 18 Watts Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor, Ontario, Canada, N8Y3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Dec 11 13:20:05 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Q: "purple"ish" Intel C80287-3 from '83 with gold legs/top Message-ID: Ok while going through the mass of crap I've collected together and finally gotten losse from my storage trailer, I came across an Intel math coprocessor, with gold legs and cap on the "purplish" grey ceramic. On the pin 1 side you can see a thin gold plate (the chip itself I guess) in the index spot and on the opposite end it has a rectangle filled with epoxy. It also has a gold stripe from the center cap to the #1 pin index mark. Is this worth a crap or am I just disillusioned by the enormous amount that the 8080a went for on eBay a few weeks ago? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/81a5cb6e/attachment.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 13:34:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Q: "purple"ish" Intel C80287-3 from '83 with gold legs/top In-Reply-To: Q: "purple"ish" Intel C80287-3 from '83 with gold legs/top (Russ Blakeman) References: Message-ID: <15382.24498.14988.692552@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Ok while going through the mass of crap I've collected together and finally > gotten losse from my storage trailer, I came across an Intel math > coprocessor, with gold legs and cap on the "purplish" grey ceramic. On the > pin 1 side you can see a thin gold plate (the chip itself I guess) in the > index spot and on the opposite end it has a rectangle filled with epoxy. It > also has a gold stripe from the center cap to the #1 pin index mark. > > Is this worth a crap or am I just disillusioned by the enormous amount that > the 8080a went for on eBay a few weeks ago? They're all over the place, man. Sorry. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Dec 11 13:50:22 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: "purple"ish" Intel C80287-3 from '83 with gold legs/top References: Message-ID: <00f801c1827d$12357260$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I'd save it a few more years ! Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------ http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Blakeman To: Classic computers message group Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: Q: "purple"ish" Intel C80287-3 from '83 with gold legs/top Ok while going through the mass of crap I've collected together and finally gotten losse from my storage trailer, I came across an Intel math coprocessor, with gold legs and cap on the "purplish" grey ceramic. On the pin 1 side you can see a thin gold plate (the chip itself I guess) in the index spot and on the opposite end it has a rectangle filled with epoxy. It also has a gold stripe from the center cap to the #1 pin index mark. Is this worth a crap or am I just disillusioned by the enormous amount that the 8080a went for on eBay a few weeks ago? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/662d761c/attachment.html From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 11 13:28:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Hardrive.sys for HardCard ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011211142817.007cc510@mailhost.intellistar.net> Anybody know where I can download a copy of "hardrive.sys" for a 105Mb hard card? Joe From red at bears.org Tue Dec 11 13:23:23 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Hardrive.sys for HardCard ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20011211142817.007cc510@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Joe wrote: > Anybody know where I can download a copy of "hardrive.sys" for a 105Mb hard > card? If it's a Plus HardCard IIXL you can still get the driver from Quantum's web site. ok r. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Dec 11 15:12:27 2001 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Hardrive.sys for HardCard ? References: <3.0.6.32.20011211142817.007cc510@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3C1676BB.AAFC3C69@ccp.com> Joe wrote: > > Anybody know where I can download a copy of "hardrive.sys" for a 105Mb hard > card? > > Joe I think I have a copy of the software with mine . . . gotta look first. I know I have 5 1/4 media, and there shouold be 3.5 as well. Gary HIldebrand From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 14:35:22 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > > > > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a > > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. > > > > You got it from Sellam, right? ;>) > > I don't smoke or eat weed around my computers. Chips occasionally, but > that's about it. I've had systems, that when I opened them, the air intake filters oozed with residue and reeked of herb. Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Dec 11 14:40:00 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers and cats, what about... In-Reply-To: <3C166333.4F351EF@verizon.net> Message-ID: I have an old chest freezer in the garage (away from the house) that ALL machines get to sit inside of overnight when they're dropped off, including VCR's, computers, printers (except the inkjet types of course) etc and if/when I do a microwave they are opened quickly with a shopvac (with a throwaway bag inside) running to suck any up and put them where they belong. I bombed my storage trailer when I picked up literally hundreds of various machines, a week after I loaded them all in there and man talk about dead mice and roaches all over! I would have liked to see a few cats too (kidding) but it did the job, combined with the extreme winter they spent the rest of that year before I could start getting them pulled in a few at a time. Of course monitors, pcs, etc have to sit in the warm shop an hour or two before apply power - hell on fuses when 25kv arcs across a monitor CRT that's sweating. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Chomko -> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:49 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Smoking around computers and cats, what about... -> -> -> ROACHES! Two of the people I service computers bring me systems -> that tend to be roach-laden. My wife forces me to leave the boxes outside -> -> overnight before bringing them in for repair. -> -> Nothing like roach crap, carcuses in cobwebs and the occasional live -> critter running in and around the power supply. I litterly have to spray -> them -> out with air, and them clean out the insides. Roach-infested computers -> cost more to fix! ;) -> -> Eric -> -> -> Jeff Hellige wrote: -> -> > > > Speaking of which, ever open a machine formerly owned by a -> > >> dog/cat owner? -> > > -> > >I have. Being a cat owner, I find that I need to clean my systems of -> > >cat-hair on a regular basis. -> > -> > I've had the displeasure of working on machines used by -> > someone with quite a large number of cats. As if all the cat hair in -> > the carpet wasn't bad enough while crawling down to hook/unhook -> > cables, the hair was also throughout everything from the keyboard and -> > mouse to the CPU. Not just a few strands, but quite a lot of it. -> > Quite nasty... -> > -> > Jeff -> > -- -> > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File -> > http://www.cchaven.com -> > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -> -> From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 14:45:34 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Re: Smoking around computers (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: Message-ID: <15382.28782.647555.96956@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > I've had systems, that when I opened them, the air intake filters oozed > with residue and reeked of herb. There's gotta be something that can be done with that. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 11 12:47:40 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20011211234316.BLLM15232.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > ! > 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE > ! > > ! > READY. > > Staring Windows 98 ... > > C:\> @ ECHO OFF > > > Windows Protetion Fault... > You didn't pay your fees. > Please let the big ape-guys in the front door to collect. > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 Click...fan, HD spins up. Loud Beep beep beep beep beep stridently constinuously. Oh gawd, forgot the ram, click and waits 4 seconds for pc to shut off (hint), scratching metallic noises clink, tink! CLANG. Crunch. Clang, thuds. Scratch scratch.... click.. stuff spins up, BEEEEP bep bep bep!...awww... repeats the process finally... AWARD bios 1009 K7M EPA Athlon 800 Memory counts up 4 times. buzzes, humm... BEEP! rattle tink tink.. Windows 95 starting...scrolling shades disappears beep! (nasty screechhhhh!! Ticking grinding noises and booting time becomes longer then nasty noises stops, boot resumes normally.) Empty desktop appears, Detecting VIA sound system... disappears. BSOD pops up. AAARRROOOOOOOOOO! Another machine: Snap! *BOOONNG!* Loudly. Waits for tube to warm up...finally grey background appears with pointer upper left corner, faint scratching noise from floppy drive then in center blinking ? inside of floppy outline. Thuds, soft churning noises....smiling face then disappears. Black and white of "Welcome to the Macintosh" banner flags up... Churning noise continues... Drops into desktop...click-click, click-click, rattles, churns and churns some more...and stares at things... Finder clock, settings all wrong, aww.. time for new expensive battery and redo the HD spoilt by HPFS+. :-) Cheers, Wizard PS: I had to put in howling part bec at one time I had one machine that howled like mad when HD died instead of screeching noise. From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Dec 11 19:10:37 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: testing In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225ACF@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: > > I'd give up all of Congress for one Richard Feynman. > I'd give up considerably more than that. "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman!" is probably one of the most enjoyable books I've ever read. g. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 11 13:04:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: from "Boatman on the River of Suck" at Dec 10, 1 08:24:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/cc8b04f6/attachment.ksh From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 14:51:34 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Subject: RE: I've discovered a new pleasure. > > > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > > *I* could enjoy programming in BASIC on an IBM Portable, > too, if I was sitting in a storage unit filled with the > kind of goodies you've got in *yours*, Sridhar! Hehehehe. > With all that iron, ya gotta throw a party sometime soon! I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's to VCF East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone else brings machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll be welcome to hook up to me. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 15:10:48 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: RE: I've discovered a new pleasure. (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15382.30296.394239.367892@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's to VCF > East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone else brings > machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll be welcome to hook > up to me. Eh? The G1 isn't 10 years old, is it? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 17:58:17 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <15382.30296.394239.367892@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's to VCF > > East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone else brings > > machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll be welcome to hook > > up to me. > > Eh? The G1 isn't 10 years old, is it? It is indeed. Both of mine have manufacture dates in 1991. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 15:03:03 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <15382.20659.614514.580021@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > Before I moved to FL, Sridhar and Brian Hechinger came down to hang > out and hack on stuff, and crashed on my couches. Late the next > morning, I walk into the living room to find Sridhar just waking up. > He sits up, gets what is likely that very same funny look on his face, > and says "NAME THY FECES!!" Are you going to tell that story to *everybody*? Wait, I think you just did. 8-) > I think the boy needs to eat more beef and less plantlife. All > that chlorophyll is getting into his brain. ;) LOL Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 15:04:47 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <15382.20381.618443.478420@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 11, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > With all that iron, ya gotta throw a party sometime soon! > > Nah, Sridhar doesn't know how to party...do you, Sridhar. ;) > Perhaps we can give him some party lessons. 8-) Remember you're talking to a raver. I party for *days* on end. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 15:13:43 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: RE: I've discovered a new pleasure. (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <15382.20381.618443.478420@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15382.30471.734274.791708@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > Nah, Sridhar doesn't know how to party...do you, Sridhar. ;) > > Perhaps we can give him some party lessons. 8-) > > Remember you're talking to a raver. I party for *days* on end. 8-) Nah...too much dancing, not enough drinking! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 15:21:25 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AD6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > With all that iron, ya gotta throw a party sometime soon! > > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's to VCF > East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone else brings > machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll be welcome to hook > up to me. Ok, Russ, to see Sridhar's stuff, we gotta get together and do a Hillbilly VCF 1.0 If we time it right and have it in Owensboro, we could make it a part of the Kentucky Burgoo Festival... ;) From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 18:02:33 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AD6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > With all that iron, ya gotta throw a party sometime soon! > > > > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's to VCF > > East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone else brings > > machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll be welcome to hook > > up to me. > > Ok, Russ, to see Sridhar's stuff, we gotta get together and do a > > Hillbilly VCF 1.0 > > If we time it right and have it in Owensboro, we could > make it a part of the Kentucky Burgoo Festival... > > ;) Why don't you come out to VCFE next year? It'll only be about a half-day's drive. Peace... Sridhar From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 16:06:58 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673B8@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: ! > > Nah, Sridhar doesn't know how to party...do you, Sridhar. ;) ! > > Perhaps we can give him some party lessons. 8-) ! > ! > Remember you're talking to a raver. I party for *days* on end. 8-) ! ! Nah...too much dancing, not enough drinking! ! ! -Dave And a hearty "hear-hear!" to that! Not to mention, he doesn't really look the 'raver' type. Hmmm... ;) Speaking of drinking, Tuesdays (tonight!) are when my APA Pool Team plays. We're in first, with only two more matches to go! Then playoffs for the States, then it's off to Vegas after States! Woo-hoo, hopefully! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 16:34:30 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AE1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > And a hearty "hear-hear!" to that! Not to mention, he > doesn't really look the 'raver' type. Hmmm... ;) > Speaking of drinking, Tuesdays (tonight!) are when my > APA Pool Team plays. We're in first, with only two more > matches to go! Then playoffs for the States, then it's > off to Vegas after States! Woo-hoo, hopefully! We used to have a drinking night here, but your truly couldn't be bothered by the beer everyone else was having that night and opted for Maker's Mark on an empty stomach... that drove the nail in the Tuesday Night coffin (at our office). And I want to point out: the diminished capacity for judgement begins *before* you had the first drink. Blaming the alcohol is engaging in bad faith... -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 11 17:35:29 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <15382.20659.614514.580021@phaduka.neurotica.com> from Dave McGuire at "Dec 11, 1 01:30:11 pm" Message-ID: <200112112335.PAA08766@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Before I moved to FL, Sridhar and Brian Hechinger came down to hang > out and hack on stuff, and crashed on my couches. You mean, these people really exist and aren't figments of sendmail's imagination? :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain --------------------- From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 11 18:03:17 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. References: <200112112335.PAA08766@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3C169EC5.183FE377@jetnet.ab.ca> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Before I moved to FL, Sridhar and Brian Hechinger came down to hang > > out and hack on stuff, and crashed on my couches. > > You mean, these people really exist and aren't figments of sendmail's > imagination? :-P > My question -- Have they left yet?? :) -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 11 13:23:01 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: H89 docs/help requested In-Reply-To: <20011211043436.VLAD9714.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Dec 10, 1 11:32:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2483 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/705187bf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 11 13:13:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Question about older keyboards. In-Reply-To: from "Ernest" at Dec 10, 1 07:49:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3067 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/734d41bb/attachment.ksh From louiss at gate.net Tue Dec 11 17:57:04 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Question about older keyboards. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:13:38 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote: #OK, the '159 is the open-collector version of the '154. It's a 16 output #decoder/with open collector outputs. I know it well. # #It takes in a 4 bit number, and (in this case) selects one of 16 logical #columns of keys. Presumanly the keyboard is scanned in software and thus #the 4 bit number comes from an output port somewhere. # #> So, if the keyboard seems to be OK, where would I next look for the cause of #> a few random characters being generated on startup? Any tips here will help. Well, if this was a keyboard problem, the 74159 itself could be bad. I just fixed an Exidy Sorcerer keyboard, which is made in this very manner (using a 74L154), where some key combinations did not give the right results. The 74L154 itself had an internal short. But, I think we need more information on the machine. Random characters on startup don't sound like a keyboard problem. In some cases, this could be normal. What happens after startup? Do the keys work? In the Sorcerer, random characters on startup indicate a problem in the video RAM. But again, it is hard to guess a cause for a problem without knowing what hardware we are talking about, and having a much better description of the problem. # #Look the the connections on the keyswitches that do _not_ go to the '159. #Where do they go to? Presumably via some kind of cable to a chip on the #mainboard of whatever machine this is. What's that chip? # #Do you still get random characters if the machine is turned on with the #keyboard totally disconnected? # #It may not even be a keyboard problem. It might be a RAM/ROM/CPU problem #(the machine might not be running the monitor program correctly). # #-tony # Louis From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 11 13:57:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <3C159C67.D4BA0C5F@socal.rr.com> from "charles hobbs" at Dec 10, 1 09:40:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 921 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/5a86dd47/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Dec 11 15:59:22 2001 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > And jumping on the workbench, scattering components everywhere was > annother.... I had to hold him hack whenever I had static-sensitive stuff > on the bench (for the device's safety) or whenever I had mains or other > HV stuff on the bench (for Homer's safety). I once powered up an IBM 7013-550 - the old deskside PowerServer - and watched Rascal, my 7-year-old hellbitch, spring out of the box. As near as I could tell, she was sitting on the SCSI adapter when I turned it on. Both she & the RS/6000 were unharmed until I caught her. I think she likes the fan vibes from the older boxen. She'll lay up against the case if she can. By the way, most excellent mailing list. I dunno what took me so long. See ya later, Doc Shipley Austin, Texas From rhblakeman at kih.net Tue Dec 11 15:02:04 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dude, did you keep them for later :-) -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Boatman on the -> River of Suck -> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:35 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Smoking around computers -> -> -> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: -> -> > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Glen Goodwin wrote: -> > -> > > > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) -> > > -> > > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a -> > > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. -> > > -> > > You got it from Sellam, right? ;>) -> > -> > I don't smoke or eat weed around my computers. Chips occasionally, but -> > that's about it. -> -> I've had systems, that when I opened them, the air intake filters oozed -> with residue and reeked of herb. -> -> Peace... Sridhar -> -> From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 17:57:32 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Dude, did you keep them for later :-) No, man. I don't like resin hits. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 15:06:35 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <15382.23104.644749.647598@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm going to uuencode a fart and email it to you! That's one I haven't heard before. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 15:07:28 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673AE@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! I'm going to uuencode a fart and email it to you! > > That's fine. I've got a cold, and a stuffy node right now... ;-) With Dave McGuire, it doesn't matter. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 15:09:56 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:46 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <15382.27420.725073.255148@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 11, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > I'm going to uuencode a fart and email it to you! > > > > Don't bother: > > > > http://www.farts.com/ > > fear Not, "Death?" Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 15:11:14 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <15382.28782.647555.96956@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > I've had systems, that when I opened them, the air intake filters oozed > > with residue and reeked of herb. > > There's gotta be something that can be done with that. ;) I believe that Jon Singer and I reached a consensus that Alconox and Borax can do something about it. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 15:18:39 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AD5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > > I don't smoke or eat weed around my computers. Chips occasionally, but > > that's about it. > > I've had systems, that when I opened them, the air intake filters oozed > with residue and reeked of herb. Did I mention I run a filter recycling service? Please mail your filters to: ';liwrfjuscljhapos8hs NO CARRIER From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 16:07:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <15382.21107.774288.382878@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF81@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <01Dec11.121300est.119234@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <15382.21107.774288.382878@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >On December 11, Jeff Hellige wrote: >> I've had the displeasure of working on machines used by >> someone with quite a large number of cats. As if all the cat hair in >> the carpet wasn't bad enough while crawling down to hook/unhook >> cables, the hair was also throughout everything from the keyboard and >> mouse to the CPU. Not just a few strands, but quite a lot of it. >> Quite nasty... > > Hmm, I have a kitty who spends some time in the computer >room...there's one particular machine in there that moves a LOT of air >and needs its filters cleaned frequently, but aside from that I've had >no issues with kitty fur. > > And even if that weren't the case...my cat is one of the best friends >I've ever had, so if letting her go where she wants means some extra >filter cleaning for me, then so be it! A single cat isn't much of a problem, but the woman I'm referring to has a dozen or more. Even her office has more than it's share of cat hair, as she's worked in it for about 15 years. That many cats make a bit of a difference! Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 11 17:10:01 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225A9A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> <000f01c1819c$28687460$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3C159E1E.E9CBC198@verizon.net> Message-ID: <004001c18298$f63087a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> See below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Koller" To: ; "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Smoking around computers > > > Dick, > > You've got plenty of other nasty stuff in the air in > machine shops too. Smoking cutting oils, mist coolant > drift, etc. One way to keep the gunk from being drawn > through the drives is to leave the cover off the case. > With an extra fan inside blowing across the boards, > keeps everything cool enough. > I find it much simpler simply to reverse the direction of the PSU fan. It takes less than 10 minutes, and, with a sufficiently porous filter, prevents the accumulation of nasties in the front-loading peripherals. > > Ian > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Bear in mind that I'm a FORMER smoker, and that there's no Catholic like a > > convert, as they say ... I don't know about truly Classic (pre-Apple/pre-CP/M) > > hardware in this context, but from my experience with current hardware, i.e. > > PC's with a fan at the back of the PSU that exhausts air that's drawn in through > > the front-loading peripherals, I'd make the following comment. > > > > I've disassembled a number of CDROM drives that clearly suffered from > > accumulation of dirt on the optic. In those few cases where (a) I knew the user > > to be a frequent smoker, and (b) where I could smell the smoke on the innards of > > the drive, I normally found that I couldn't clean the optic with anything I > > dared put near the quite soluble plastics used in the drive and specifically in > > the laser pickup. > > > > Likewise, I often have seen and smelled what was obviously tabacco smoke residue > > on floppy disk innards. Those were easily cleaned, with the exception of the > > heads, which in the cases where they were visibly stained (and it's not easy to > > look at the heads, but, once they're visible, the damage is easy to see) with > > what appeared to be smoke residue, and that generally has rendered the drives > > unreliable. The environment in which I most frequently encountered this problem > > was a machine shop where things were none too clean anyway, but the mousepad > > showed plenty of evidence of a cigarette being held 2" in front of the end of > > the box where the CDROM and FDD resided. It was no wonder the CDROM and FDD > > smelled like a very dirty ashtray. > > > > This is largely the product of the stupid, Stupid, STUPID practice of putting > > the fan in the PSU such that it exhausts the system in the way in which it does. > > I routinely turn the fan around, and, in fact, on at least two of my boxes, have > > put a second fan outside the PSU, with a filter between the two. This has quite > > remarkably reduced the accumulation of dirt in the PSU as in the rest of the > > box. It does make for a bit more noise, as the two fans tend to "beat" due to > > the difference in speed. I once made a crude effort to measure the temperature > > effect of doing this, and found the results favorable, since the reduced > > presence of dirt meant freer airflow against the surfaces of the IC's that > > required cooling in the box. I like to believe the conclusion I drew was > > correct, but it was what I expected to find, so take it for what it's worth. > > > > Tobacco smoke is VERY sticky and VERY pervasive, and should be kept out of > > computer hardware, even if only because it's so nasty and hard to remove. This > > can be accomplished, if you don't want to turn around your PSU fan, by taping a > > piece of paper towel to the front of your hardware so it requires the air to > > flow THROUGH the paper towel, rather than going, unimpeded, through your > > front-loading peripherals. That's probably adequate. Some cases once had a > > sliding cover that protected these peripherals from the hazard of smoke and > > other airborne pollutants. The air will still get into your computer, since its > > box isn't air-tight, but at least it won't flow through the devices that would > > be damaged most by it. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Douglas Quebbeman" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:40 AM > > Subject: RE: Smoking around computers > > > > > > > From: Tony Duell > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't want anybody smoking near my computers! > > > > > > > > I've been chain-smoking around computers of various sorts for 20 years, and > > > > I've never seen any evidence of smoke-related problems. I prefer that > > > > computers don't smoke around me, however ;>) > > > > > > > > OTOH, audio gear seems to be very susceptible to my smoke, and I have to > > > > clean all the switches and pots every three months or so. > > > > > > The early CDC disk drives (like many others I'm sure) has so > > > much room between platters you could stick your hand in there, > > > and enough room between the flying heads and the platter that > > > neither smoke nor dust was a problem. One CDC engineer remarked > > > to me about how they usually be smoking a cigarette while they > > > were *polishing* the platters (yes, I know about the stiction > > > cure joke, Lemon Pledge and all that). Which reminds me of an > > > MPEG that Elsa included with the Winner3000 drivers... you > > > watch this video, you'll think it's cigarettes that they're > > > selling... > > > > > > -dq > > > > > > > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 11 13:07:37 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: H89 docs/help requested In-Reply-To: References: <20011211043436.VLAD9714.imf17bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> from "Glen Goodwin" at Dec 10, 1 11:32:22 pm Message-ID: <20011212000318.FRID14728.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: H89 docs/help requested > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:23:01 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Snip! > Along the sides there's a litte crack between the top and bottom parts of > the case. You'll see a little metal plate towards the front of this > crack. Put a screwdriver into the notch on this plate and slide it (I > can't remember if it's towards the front or rear of the machine). This > will unlatch the top cover which then swings open towards the back of the > machine. Unplug the fan cable and unhook the cover entirely. These plates is sprung loaded, push it and hold it there while tugging the top to free the barb then carefully do the other side. Then top will be freed, tip it back away from you if you're facing the front end rather like BMW hood way it opens. > If for any reason you want to remove the keyboard, it's held in by 6 > hex-head screws on the bottom, under the keyboard. Hmmm, Yep. Double check all one sided PCBs, too many of them had cracked solder joints and component wires became unbonded from solder invisibly till you wiggle those component. AHA! > -tony Worked my share on Z19's in '90 then school converted to messy zenith DOS machines in 91. Some Z19's tend to float big cloud of magic from it when monitor board under the tube blew. Happened to me once while running it on looping TX/RX test hooked to IBM mainframe spitting whole screenful of one letter, blanks one by one, print out whole screen of next letter on Z19 before putting it back into tested pile. Saw smoke appear and saw resistors glowing like lava. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 11 14:41:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: <20011211002924.F69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Dec 11, 1 00:31:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 963 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/eaac5729/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 11 14:45:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Dec 11, 1 00:59:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1745 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/007ae18f/attachment.ksh From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Dec 11 16:02:10 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: 11/44 power problem... (Oh, not again...) Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662AF@exc-reo1> > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote: > >The outputs of this PSU are +/-5V to +/-15V. They're all safe to touch, >although they can supply significant current when the machine is in >operation (I think the main logic supply is 5V, 125A). When I was working on a VAX 6000 once, the combination of +5V @ > 100A and human-appendages-with-nearby-metal (fingers with ring, wrists with metal watchstraps etc.) was quaintly described as an opportunity to lose an appendage and simultaneously cauterize the wound :-) >The main hazard is inside the PSU. There are a couple of _large_ >capacitors that form part of a 400V supply straight from the mains. The >output of this supply is distributed to the PSU boards by barrier-strip >type screw terminals at the top of the boards. This supply can kill you! Stone dead, I should think! All PSUs deserve respect. This one sounds like it deserves more than most :-) Antonio From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Dec 11 14:53:43 2001 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Shareing ... (Applesoft Programs) Message-ID: <3C167257.9030606@cnonline.net> Hey peoples! I have been spending my time working programs in Applesoft basic. What would be the best way to share these programs with others? I have an apple II c with 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 " floppies. From Golemancd at aol.com Tue Dec 11 14:57:20 2001 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: apple 11c power supply thanks chuck Message-ID: <16d.57ac825.2947cd30@aol.com> thanks for the info i bought an apple 2c at a thrift for 99 cents no adapter. thinking about making one thanks for the info joee From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 14:57:39 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AC2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > ! Actually, the earlier the better. I want to do it *old* but *fast*. > > ! > > ! Peace... Sridhar > > > > Sridhar --- > > Okay, we know you're missing a missus, but isn't that a little > > strange? ;) > > Dangol'- may, december thing- tellyuhwhat. > > ;) Well, the reason I wanted to do it *old* and *fast*... I wanted to do it old because I actually own a first-revision PDP-11/70 which my father bought brand new back in the mid-70's when it first came out before I was born. It's a really really neat machine with gobs of I/O bandwidth. It's fast too. So it made me think what I might be able to do with modern components and still make it compatible with my 11/70. (FYI, my 11/70 is still working and is still original, down to its fuses and fascia). Peace... Sridhar From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 10 01:25:21 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: Message-ID: <3C146361.7949D7B5@jetnet.ab.ca> Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > I wanted to do it old because I actually own a first-revision PDP-11/70 > which my father bought brand new back in the mid-70's when it first came > out before I was born. It's a really really neat machine with gobs of I/O > bandwidth. It's fast too. So it made me think what I might be able to do > with modern components and still make it compatible with my 11/70. (FYI, > my 11/70 is still working and is still original, down to its fuses and > fascia). Building my 'prehistoric' CPU, I have discovered I am about 5 years too late to find TTL. 16 x4 RAM and ALU's are very scarce and never produced in the newer families. You may still find stuff in 74Fxx but you still are only about 1/2 the power. I am assuming the 11/70 used 74Sxx. You can do a lot with FPGA's today but I don't expect a full grown PDP-11 will fit in a fpga that is not in a 144 pin TQFP package. Funny how the logic is now 'super large' FPGA's and single gate 'glue' chips. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 15:00:14 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673A8@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, David Woyciesjes wrote: > ! > ! Actually, the earlier the better. I want to do it *old* > ! > ! but *fast*. > ! > ! > ! > ! Peace... Sridhar > ! > > ! > Sridhar --- > ! > Okay, we know you're missing a missus, but isn't that a little > ! > strange? ;) > ! > ! Dangol'- may, december thing- tellyuhwhat. > ! > ! ;) > > What? You've never seen "King of the Hill"? Peace... Sridhar From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Tue Dec 11 15:09:15 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673B5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > ! > ! Actually, the earlier the better. I want to do it *old* ! > ! > ! but *fast*. ! > ! > ! ! > ! > ! Peace... Sridhar ! > ! > ! > ! > Sridhar --- ! > ! > Okay, we know you're missing a missus, but ! isn't that a little ! > ! > strange? ;) ! > ! ! > ! Dangol'- may, december thing- tellyuhwhat. ! > ! ! > ! ;) ! > ! > What? ! ! You've never seen "King of the Hill"? ! ! Peace... Sridhar Umm, couple times... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 15:10:38 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673B5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:09:15 -0500 > From: David Woyciesjes > To: 'Boatman on the River of Suck' , > David Woyciesjes > Cc: "'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'" , > 'Douglas Quebbeman' > Subject: RE: Prints for an 11/70 > > ! > ! > ! Actually, the earlier the better. I want to do it *old* > ! > ! > ! but *fast*. > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! > ! Peace... Sridhar > ! > ! > > ! > ! > Sridhar --- > ! > ! > Okay, we know you're missing a missus, but > ! isn't that a little > ! > ! > strange? ;) > ! > ! > ! > ! Dangol'- may, december thing- tellyuhwhat. > ! > ! > ! > ! ;) > ! > > ! > What? > ! > ! You've never seen "King of the Hill"? > ! > ! Peace... Sridhar > > Umm, couple times... It's from that. Peace... Sridhar From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 15:47:46 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AD8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Dangol'- may, december thing- tellyuhwhat. > > > > ;) > > Well, the reason I wanted to do it *old* and *fast*... > > I wanted to do it old because I actually own a first-revision PDP-11/70 > which my father bought brand new back in the mid-70's when it first came > out before I was born. It's a really really neat machine with gobs of I/O > bandwidth. It's fast too. So it made me think what I might be able to do > with modern components and still make it compatible with my 11/70. (FYI, > my 11/70 is still working and is still original, down to its fuses and > fascia). That is *so* cool, preserving a machine by keeping it in the family! -dq From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 18:05:23 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AD8@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Well, the reason I wanted to do it *old* and *fast*... > > > > I wanted to do it old because I actually own a first-revision PDP-11/70 > > which my father bought brand new back in the mid-70's when it first came > > out before I was born. It's a really really neat machine with gobs of I/O > > bandwidth. It's fast too. So it made me think what I might be able to do > > with modern components and still make it compatible with my 11/70. (FYI, > > my 11/70 is still working and is still original, down to its fuses and > > fascia). > > That is *so* cool, preserving a machine by keeping it in the family! Actually, that wasn't the point. The point was that when I was a tiny tot, I started to learn how to program. Soon I was programming more than my dad, so he got himself an IBM AS/400 lab setup to do his lab stuff (which was the primary use for the 11/70... it has a bunch of analog data acquision stuff in it) and just gave me the 11/70 to hack on. If he hadn't given it to me, he might still be using it. Peace... Sridhar From Golemancd at aol.com Tue Dec 11 14:58:26 2001 From: Golemancd at aol.com (Golemancd@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: apple 11c power supply Message-ID: <17d.8ea4ed.2947cd72@aol.com> thanks john From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Dec 11 15:22:38 2001 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? Message-ID: <3C16791E.5000707@cnonline.net> Hi! Is there any way to connect an apple IIC Plus to a "modern" monitor? It has a 15 pin connector that has a strange pin out - and a composit video out on an RCA plug. I currently use an apple monochrome (tilt-y tube) monitor to see 80 col text and a Panasonic monitor to see the color modes. I have to lug to switch them. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 11 17:04:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? References: <3C16791E.5000707@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <003201c18298$3ee4b3a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Keep in mind that the IIc uses NTSC monitors. If you have an obsolete video monitor (not a computer monitor, but one from a component video system) that will work fine in either color or monochrome mode. Some older NTSC types don't have the bandwidth to support the 80-column mode, so start by trying an IBM PC Color monitor. You may find that adequate, though small. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 2:22 PM Subject: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? > Hi! > > Is there any way to connect an apple IIC Plus to a "modern" > monitor? > > It has a 15 pin connector that has a strange pin out - and a > composit video out on an RCA plug. > > I currently use an apple monochrome (tilt-y tube) monitor > to see 80 col text and a Panasonic monitor to see the color > modes. I have to lug to switch them. > > From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Dec 11 16:12:40 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: overclocking older processors Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662B0@exc-reo1> > Dave McGuire wrote: > > I was just reminded of when I overclocked an F11 chipset on a >PDP-11/23 (KDF11-A) to 18MHz. It seems to me that it might be >possible to overclock the 78032 on a KA630. Anybody ever done that? I've just sent EK-78032-UG, basically the 78032 User Guide over to DFWCUG. You can see the gory details once it arrives and they put it up. In the meantime, from Appendix A, clock period is variable from 25ns to 250ns i.e. 40MHz to 4MHz. It specifically states (somewhere) that the part will *not* work down to DC. The clock should be held in the high and low states for 16ns each, so even with infinitely fast rise and fall you cannot do better than 32ns and stay reliable across all parts and all temperature ranges. Now if you are willing to restrict the temperature range and hope to work on just *most* parts, who knows :-) Tweaking a MicroVAX II won't buy you much. I doubt you could bump the clock by much more than say 20% without something going horribly wrong. And the uVAX II is a fairly well balanced system: the memory cycle is just about right for the CPU (I think it works out that the CPU cycle time matches the memory cycle time - hence no need for cache). So if you up the CPU clock, you need to find some way to speed up the memory otherwise you don't even see your modest 20% gain. Antonio From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Dec 10 02:08:31 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: overclocking older processors References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662B0@exc-reo1> Message-ID: <3C146D7F.9F3A6A8F@jetnet.ab.ca> "Carlini, Antonio" wrote: > Tweaking a MicroVAX II won't buy > you much. I doubt you could bump the > clock by much more than say 20% without > something going horribly wrong. And the > uVAX II is a fairly well balanced system: > the memory cycle is just about right for > the CPU (I think it works out that the CPU > cycle time matches the memory cycle > time - hence no need for cache). Playing around with my 'Prehistoric' cpu, the best speed I can manage is a memory cycle of 333 ns.( 12 Mhz/4 ). It is the I/O chips that slow me down - not main memory. I expect much the same if you try to reto-fit faster main memory. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Dec 11 16:57:25 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: <20011211024029.D25133@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 09:40:29 CET References: <15380.64853.294164.407701@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20011210235400.U69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> <20011211024029.D25133@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20011211235725.C68192@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2001.12.11 09:40 Bill Bradford wrote: > Actually, classiccmp generates about 2x-3x the traffic of rescue or > geeks, except on a really busy day. Whet "geeks" list??? From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Dec 11 17:10:02 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Bootmessages (was: Re: testing) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com>; from dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com on Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 13:54:02 CET References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AB6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20011212001002.E68192@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2001.12.11 13:54 Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > KA410-A V1.2 > > > > > F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1_.. [...] > > **** COMMODORE 64 BASIC V2 **** > > 64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE [...] > 77/07/06. 18.50.53. > INDIANA UNIVERSITY - LEVEL 9. KRONOS 2.1-397/397 Hmmm. Once upon a time there was the MAUS-Net in Germany. A modem/ISDN coupled mailbox net. For the fun of it we collected in a newsgroup "Hello World!" programms in as many different programming languages we could get. This leads me to the idea: What about a (web browseable) collection of prom / boot messages of classic machines and OSes? From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Dec 11 17:43:00 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Bootmessages (was: Re: testing) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF93@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> That would probably be a really good resource for people who tend to see computers around an want to know what they're looking at... It would be especially useful for machines that are similar in enclosure but not in firmware. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] > What about a (web browseable) collection of prom / boot messages of > classic machines and OSes? > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Dec 11 18:06:36 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Bootmessages (was: Re: testing) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF93@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: Sounds like a great idea to build a pocket reference guide on... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Christopher Smith wrote: > That would probably be a really good resource for people who tend to see > computers around an want to know what they're looking at... It would be > especially useful for machines that are similar in enclosure but not in > firmware. > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jochen Kunz [mailto:jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de] > > > What about a (web browseable) collection of prom / boot messages of > > classic machines and OSes? > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 11 17:59:31 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Google USENET Archive expanded Message-ID: <200112112359.fBBNxV222246@shell1.aracnet.com> I just saw this on /., the Google USENET archive has been expanded back to May 12th, 1981! It's a great day for Classic Computing! Looks like the oldest message in their archive is DEC related since it talks about a Unibus Versatec interface card. Zane From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 18:09:28 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3C146361.7949D7B5@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > I wanted to do it old because I actually own a first-revision PDP-11/70 > > which my father bought brand new back in the mid-70's when it first came > > out before I was born. It's a really really neat machine with gobs of I/O > > bandwidth. It's fast too. So it made me think what I might be able to do > > with modern components and still make it compatible with my 11/70. (FYI, > > my 11/70 is still working and is still original, down to its fuses and > > fascia). > > Building my 'prehistoric' CPU, I have discovered I am about 5 years > too late to find TTL. 16 x4 RAM and ALU's are very scarce and never > produced in the newer families. You may still find stuff in 74Fxx but > you still are only about 1/2 the power. I am assuming the 11/70 used > 74Sxx. You can do a lot with FPGA's today but I don't expect a full > grown PDP-11 will fit in a fpga that is not in a 144 pin TQFP package. > Funny how the logic is now 'super large' FPGA's and single gate 'glue' > chips. Yeah. I wasn't actually trying to build it using any specific technology. What I am doing is taking the latest and greatest and building a PDP-11 compatible (one that act's *exactly* like an 11/70, but faster). I am probably not going to be using FPGA's, because I don't think they're yet making FPGA's the speed I want them to go. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 18:01:25 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > I've discovered a new simple pleasure. Sitting in my storage locker with > > a space heater and my IBM Portable Personal Computer (thanks again, Jeff) > > programming in BASIC in the middle of the night. Ahhh. > > I have a related pleasure. Sitting (just about anywhere) with an HP67 or > HP97 calculator (preferably both :-)). 224 program steps, numeric-only > display. And it's amazing what you can get those machines to do :-) Indeed. I do strange things like trying not to use while...wend, for, and gosub. It can be trying to keep track of all the goto's. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 18:03:19 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <15382.30471.734274.791708@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > Nah, Sridhar doesn't know how to party...do you, Sridhar. ;) > > > Perhaps we can give him some party lessons. 8-) > > > > Remember you're talking to a raver. I party for *days* on end. 8-) > > Nah...too much dancing, not enough drinking! Hey. There are a lot of things more fun than alcohol. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 18:10:18 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: RE: I've discovered a new pleasure. (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <15382.30471.734274.791708@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15382.41066.974045.696700@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > Nah, Sridhar doesn't know how to party...do you, Sridhar. ;) > > > > Perhaps we can give him some party lessons. 8-) > > > > > > Remember you're talking to a raver. I party for *days* on end. 8-) > > > > Nah...too much dancing, not enough drinking! > > Hey. There are a lot of things more fun than alcohol. Hey, I LIKE getting drunk! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 18:06:24 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673B8@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, David Woyciesjes wrote: > And a hearty "hear-hear!" to that! Not to mention, he doesn't really > look the 'raver' type. Hmmm... ;) You haven't seen me in my party clothes with my hair done up and everything. Dave has. 8-) > Speaking of drinking, Tuesdays (tonight!) are when my APA Pool Team > plays. We're in first, with only two more matches to go! Then playoffs for > the States, then it's off to Vegas after States! Woo-hoo, hopefully! Cool. I like to play pool. I just have to get into practice. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 18:06:59 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: RE: I've discovered a new pleasure. (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <15382.30296.394239.367892@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15382.40867.604377.188956@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's to VCF > > > East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone else brings > > > machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll be welcome to hook > > > up to me. > > > > Eh? The G1 isn't 10 years old, is it? > > It is indeed. Both of mine have manufacture dates in 1991. Ahh, I thought the G1 came out in 1994 or so. I stand corrected. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 11 18:24:13 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Google USENET Archive expanded In-Reply-To: <200112112359.fBBNxV222246@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Dec 11, 1 03:59:31 pm" Message-ID: <200112120024.QAA08936@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I just saw this on /., the Google USENET archive has been expanded back to > May 12th, 1981! It's a great day for Classic Computing! Looks like the > oldest message in their archive is DEC related since it talks about a Unibus > Versatec interface card. I went looking for my first Usenet post ever and found it. I was so young then ... :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you're not very clever, you should be conciliatory. -- Benjamin Disraeli From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 18:17:08 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Re: Prints for an 11/70 (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <3C146361.7949D7B5@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <15382.41476.424383.688767@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > Yeah. I wasn't actually trying to build it using any specific technology. > What I am doing is taking the latest and greatest and building a PDP-11 > compatible (one that act's *exactly* like an 11/70, but faster). I am > probably not going to be using FPGA's, because I don't think they're yet > making FPGA's the speed I want them to go. You do know about Mentec's new-technology pdp11 processors, right? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 11 18:25:44 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. In-Reply-To: from Boatman on the River of Suck at "Dec 11, 1 07:03:19 pm" Message-ID: <200112120025.QAA08976@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > Nah, Sridhar doesn't know how to party...do you, Sridhar. ;) > > > > Perhaps we can give him some party lessons. 8-) > > > Remember you're talking to a raver. I party for *days* on end. 8-) > > Nah...too much dancing, not enough drinking! > Hey. There are a lot of things more fun than alcohol. Yes, we know about the BASIC programming already. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Too much of a good thing is wonderful. -- Mae West ------------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 18:25:26 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AEA@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > Before I moved to FL, Sridhar and Brian Hechinger came down to hang > > out and hack on stuff, and crashed on my couches. > > You mean, these people really exist and aren't figments of sendmail's > imagination? :-P Funny, I just recently opened a thread about "discussion bots" on alt.computers.folklore... from what I read and what I'd recalled seeing in the past, I think I can safely say no bots are on this list... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 18:26:06 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Bootmessages (was: Re: testing) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AEB@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > That would probably be a really good resource for people who tend to see > computers around an want to know what they're looking at... It would be > especially useful for machines that are similar in enclosure but not in > firmware. I think we could extrac them from issues of PHRACK... ;) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 18:26:55 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AEC@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > I'd give up all of Congress for one Richard Feynman. > > > > I'd give up considerably more than that. "Surely you're joking, > Mr. Feynman!" is probably one of the most enjoyable books > I've ever read. THAt was the name of the book, couldn't recall when Sellam and I were discussing it... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 18:30:26 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Google USENET Archive expanded Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AEE@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > I just saw this on /., the Google USENET archive has been expanded back to > May 12th, 1981! It's a great day for Classic Computing! Looks like the > oldest message in their archive is DEC related since it talks about a Unibus > Versatec interface card. Depends on the group, I think... I found that comp.sys.cdc goes back to February 1989, just a bit before CDC killed off ETA... -dq From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 11 17:51:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? In-Reply-To: <3C16791E.5000707@cnonline.net> Message-ID: >Is there any way to connect an apple IIC Plus to a "modern" >monitor? > >It has a 15 pin connector that has a strange pin out - and a >composit video out on an RCA plug. Composite out Its pretty much a normal NTSC signal, just find a monitor with the bandwidth to look nice at 80 col. 15 Pin This isn't really a video output, its a video output ADAPTER connection, ie the signals are there, but without the juice to drive more than a few inches of cable. Sounds like a great project for somebody, designing a modern monitor adapter connection. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 11 18:15:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Shareing ... (Applesoft Programs) In-Reply-To: <3C167257.9030606@cnonline.net> Message-ID: >Hey peoples! > >I have been spending my time working programs in >Applesoft basic. > >What would be the best way to share these programs with >others? > >I have an apple II c with 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 " floppies. For a start join an Apple II oriented list subscribe, email: The storage and distribution standard these days is a Apple II emulation file as is used by either a Mac or PC. Pick the host you have best access to, then check the emulation faq for it and all the details for moving files back and forth should be there. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 11 18:29:29 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AED@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > With all that iron, ya gotta throw a party sometime soon! > > > > > > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's to VCF > > > East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone else brings > > > machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll be welcome to hook > > > up to me. > > > > Ok, Russ, to see Sridhar's stuff, we gotta get together and do a > > > > Hillbilly VCF 1.0 > > > > If we time it right and have it in Owensboro, we could > > make it a part of the Kentucky Burgoo Festival... > > > > ;) > > Why don't you come out to VCFE next year? It'll only be about a > half-day's drive. The last time I even tried to take a vacation, I saved up from January till June to attend AudiFest '98 at Pike's Peak. The turbo blew in the quattro a week before and it took all I'd saved to fix it. Including selling the tickets. Coupled with a meager $30k yearly as a sysadmin running an IIS webserver might give you an idea as to the dreadfullness of my circumstances. Were I only willing to leave God's Country, I know I could better that salary in a heartbeat... -dq From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 11 18:41:35 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:47 2005 Subject: Google USENET Archive expanded In-Reply-To: from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Dec 11, 2001 07:30:26 PM Message-ID: <200112120041.fBC0fZx25442@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I just saw this on /., the Google USENET archive has been expanded back to > > May 12th, 1981! It's a great day for Classic Computing! Looks like the > > oldest message in their archive is DEC related since it talks about a Unibus > > Versatec interface card. > > Depends on the group, I think... I found that comp.sys.cdc > goes back to February 1989, just a bit before CDC killed > off ETA... > > -dq > I'm not surprised, I've not had a chance to see what kinds of PDP-10 and PDP-11 stuff can be dug up. Hmm, for that matter, it might be time to check out comp.sys.harris, and a couple others... Zane From CLeyson at aol.com Tue Dec 11 18:44:25 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <122.8ed5477.29480269@aol.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: >Yeah. I wasn't actually trying to build it using any specific technology. >What I am doing is taking the latest and greatest and building a PDP-11 >compatible (one that act's *exactly* like an 11/70, but faster). I am >probably not going to be using FPGA's, because I don't think they're yet >making FPGA's the speed I want them to go. Would 200MHz be fast enough ? A lot of the Xilinx fpga's offer 5ns pin to pin delay. I'd be interested in finding out about the 11/40 architecture - was it a bit-sliced design, how deep was the pipeline etc.? I'm going to have a go at an HP21XX machine of some description next year. It's just going to emulate some of the HP custom processors and speed isn't going to be an issue. BTW the HP2116 Cordic Co-processor ran with a cycle time of 200ns - not exactly fast - add/sub 50-100us mpy/div 100-150us. Yawn. Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/f0ec96ee/attachment.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Dec 11 19:33:57 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Re-Finds while moving storages Message-ID: <013001c182ad$19081e00$bc721fd1@default> Today I spent 8 hours moving stuff from one smaller storage unit to a much larger one and found goodies I long forgot about. I have not seen the back off this storage unit for almost 3 years. Here's a list of some items; 1. PET 2001 series 2001-8 in good shape, will take home and test it. 2. CBM 2001 series 8 machine has been modified with new keyboard in place of tape unit and smaller keys. 3. Commodore model C128D in great shape. 4. TRS80 model 1 5. PolyMorphic System 8813 model 8813/1 with wooden case. 6. CPT disk unit 8 ID# 931203 7. ADDS Ultimate model 25 8. SOROC model IQ120 9. Franklin PC8000 in great shape There were a lot more plus I still have not finished moving items yet. If I was not moving I would get me a heater and play also. From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 11 14:50:08 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <15382.19932.815292.970996@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: OT: Smoking (Zach Malone) Message-ID: <20011212014544.DKVO23490.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Look to /. This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) Cheers, Wizard From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 19:36:31 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Re-Finds while moving storages In-Reply-To: Re-Finds while moving storages (John R. Keys Jr.) References: <013001c182ad$19081e00$bc721fd1@default> Message-ID: <15382.46239.804196.75693@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Today I spent 8 hours moving stuff from one smaller storage unit to a > much larger one and found goodies I long forgot about. I have not seen > the back off this storage unit for almost 3 years. Here's a list of some > items; > 1. PET 2001 series 2001-8 in good shape, will take home and test it. > 2. CBM 2001 series 8 machine has been modified with new keyboard in > place of tape unit and smaller keys. > 3. Commodore model C128D in great shape. > 4. TRS80 model 1 > 5. PolyMorphic System 8813 model 8813/1 with wooden case. > 6. CPT disk unit 8 ID# 931203 > 7. ADDS Ultimate model 25 > 8. SOROC model IQ120 > 9. Franklin PC8000 in great shape > There were a lot more plus I still have not finished moving items yet. > If I was not moving I would get me a heater and play also. Where ya movin' to, John? A SOROC IQ120!! Ahh, the memories! :-) If you're lookin' for a home for that TRS80 model 1, drop me a note. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Dec 11 20:12:57 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Re-Finds while moving storages References: <013001c182ad$19081e00$bc721fd1@default> <15382.46239.804196.75693@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <013b01c182b2$86709800$bc721fd1@default> Moving to Houston on the 25th of this month (1st trip/load), will take about 5 trips using a 24' rental truck to get all the computers and stuff down there from MN. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Re-Finds while moving storages > On December 11, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > Today I spent 8 hours moving stuff from one smaller storage unit to a > > much larger one and found goodies I long forgot about. I have not seen > > the back off this storage unit for almost 3 years. Here's a list of some > > items; > > 1. PET 2001 series 2001-8 in good shape, will take home and test it. > > 2. CBM 2001 series 8 machine has been modified with new keyboard in > > place of tape unit and smaller keys. > > 3. Commodore model C128D in great shape. > > 4. TRS80 model 1 > > 5. PolyMorphic System 8813 model 8813/1 with wooden case. > > 6. CPT disk unit 8 ID# 931203 > > 7. ADDS Ultimate model 25 > > 8. SOROC model IQ120 > > 9. Franklin PC8000 in great shape > > There were a lot more plus I still have not finished moving items yet. > > If I was not moving I would get me a heater and play also. > > Where ya movin' to, John? > > A SOROC IQ120!! Ahh, the memories! :-) If you're lookin' for a home > for that TRS80 model 1, drop me a note. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 19:52:34 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <15382.41476.424383.688767@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Yeah. I wasn't actually trying to build it using any specific technology. > > What I am doing is taking the latest and greatest and building a PDP-11 > > compatible (one that act's *exactly* like an 11/70, but faster). I am > > probably not going to be using FPGA's, because I don't think they're yet > > making FPGA's the speed I want them to go. > > You do know about Mentec's new-technology pdp11 processors, right? Yeah. I was thinking of something a good deal faster, with UNIBUS. Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 19:53:51 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <122.8ed5477.29480269@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > Would 200MHz be fast enough ? A lot of the Xilinx fpga's offer 5ns pin to pin In a word, no. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 19:54:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > 15 Pin > This isn't really a video output, its a video output ADAPTER connection, ie > the signals are there, but without the juice to drive more than a few > inches of cable. Sounds like a great project for somebody, designing a > modern monitor adapter connection. Couldn't you do it with a VGA line driver? Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 20:09:36 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: RIP: Betty Holberton (jpero@sympatico.ca) References: <20011212014544.DKVO23490.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <15382.48224.734355.233306@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Look to /. > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 11 15:23:28 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <15382.48224.734355.233306@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: RIP: Betty Holberton (jpero@sympatico.ca) Message-ID: <20011212021904.HQLN24966.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Dave McGuire > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:09:36 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RIP: Betty Holberton > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > Look to /. > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > > -Dave No problem, I stand corrected, thanks. See, I'm rather bad with name and their past, their looks. Cheers, Wizard From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 20:13:30 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Re: Prints for an 11/70 (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <122.8ed5477.29480269@aol.com> Message-ID: <15382.48458.155075.709137@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > Would 200MHz be fast enough ? A lot of the Xilinx fpga's offer 5ns pin to pin > > In a word, no. 8-) Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 11 15:49:43 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <15382.48458.155075.709137@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: Prints for an 11/70 (Boatman on the River of Suck) Message-ID: <20011212024519.ECCA27710.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Dave McGuire > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:13:30 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Prints for an 11/70 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > Would 200MHz be fast enough ? A lot of the Xilinx fpga's offer 5ns pin to pin > > > > In a word, no. 8-) > > Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? That rate, if Sridhar is looking at sub 5ns pin-pin, he's looking at around 50 to 100MHz. Just my SWAG. FYI: PII 233 has 7ns sync-sram cycling at 133MHz. If true, that would be blisteringly fast PDP11/70 on size of a small 12" x 12" board roughly. That means putting in certain lengths of critcial traces to get timing come together at right moment (hence the zig-zag traces), low voltage swings, 2 levels of caches, etc. Blatent easy way out is emulate that 11/70 on athlon XP 1900+. :-) Smack me if you dare. :-) Cheers, Wizard > -Dave > From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 20:54:53 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Re: Prints for an 11/70 (jpero@sympatico.ca) References: <20011212024519.ECCA27710.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <15382.50941.854406.410141@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > That rate, if Sridhar is looking at sub 5ns pin-pin, he's looking > at around 50 to 100MHz. Just my SWAG. FYI: PII 233 has 7ns > sync-sram cycling at 133MHz. > > If true, that would be blisteringly fast PDP11/70 on size of a small > 12" x 12" board roughly. > > That means putting in certain lengths of critcial traces to get > timing come together at right moment (hence the zig-zag traces), low > voltage swings, 2 levels of caches, etc. > > Blatent easy way out is emulate that 11/70 on athlon XP 1900+. :-) > Smack me if you dare. :-) Oh, puh-YUKE!! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 11 16:58:32 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: References: <15382.48458.155075.709137@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011212035408.FPMR27710.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:48:22 -0500 (EST) > From: Boatman on the River of Suck > To: > Subject: Re: Prints for an 11/70 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? > > I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. > > Peace... Sridhar Dave is right on that "Jeeeeezus" part. And my eyes popped. At 1Gighurtz, that is squarely in the one or two inches of traces between CPU and one or two chipsets in turn talking to sluggard chipsets for I/O and outside world stuff, cache intergated w/ CPU die itself, outside talking at DDR rate 266MHz DDR or 333Mhz DDR. 60W heat, .18 or .13 microns, 1.7V, very tiny voltage swings for 1 and 0 signaling, and fairly heavy on pipelining. In other words, $$$. This doesn't means lost the game. Far from it. Athlon XP 1900+ or XP 2200+ (AMD plans to release this in spring to keep Intel hopping.) on 266A chipset, DDR ram, SCSI stuff. All you do is finish the emulation and build up a industial i/o PCI card to interface with front panel for i/o, tape i/o etc. Put the actual core stuff in a standard ATX. CPU makers had to kick off the external cache and stuff the smaller cache (often 256K, 128K, 64K or ugh, no cache ala original celerons) into same CPU die when they went past 600MHz. AMD kept with external cache on slot A processor for awhile longer with few higher clocked CPUs but at big penalty in clock by dividing the CPU clock lower than 1/2 for L2 extneral cache. Intel didn't and went directly to coppermine above 600MHz. I really miss the 512K cache bec time and again I find that size is needed for best performance. But both Intel and AMD is already moving to .13 microns to permit small die (to get enough useable dies from one wafer.) with 512K. FYI: Intel already have PIII w/ 512K Tualatin ($$$) and will get revised P4 w/ 512K this spring. Ick. AMD have it in works on 512K athlon, yay. I wish for 1MB athlon seriously. :-I Cheers, Wizard From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 20:48:22 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <15382.48458.155075.709137@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > Would 200MHz be fast enough ? A lot of the Xilinx fpga's offer 5ns pin to pin > > > > In a word, no. 8-) > > Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. Peace... Sridhar From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Dec 11 21:32:31 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sridhar wrote: > I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. Cool. That only requires 18 month old fab technology :-) Assuming you can figure out an implementation that will work within the limits of the fab's process, can bum simulator time and are a reasonably capable mix of CPU designer and floorplan wizard it shouldn't cost you more than low to mid six figures (US) to buy your way into a fab that has a process that can hit that speed range. To have something to carry to the fab you can probably reduce the 11/70 schematics to a netlist and feed it to a suitable synthesis and floorplanning toolchain, but the result of the synthesis will never meet your speed requirements. I'd expect that you'll need to do at least _some_ custom cell work, so be sure you're facile with dorking with individual transistors and precharge logic. Maybe you should wait five years and see how fast programmable logic gets ;-) -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From CLeyson at aol.com Tue Dec 11 20:29:59 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <169.57f482c.29481b27@aol.com> Sridhar You really do mean fast don't you ? I'm intrigued - please tell us more. Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/c2809e4f/attachment.html From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 20:53:38 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <169.57f482c.29481b27@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > Sridhar > > You really do mean fast don't you ? > I'm intrigued - please tell us more. Well, I want the whole thing to *look* like an 11/70, to software, and physically, but I want it to be blazing fast. Peace... Sridhar From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 11 20:32:22 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: <3C146361.7949D7B5@jetnet.ab.ca> <15382.41476.424383.688767@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C16C1B6.8A3CD70C@verizon.net> And Gator Eggs? Dave McGuire wrote: > > On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > Yeah. I wasn't actually trying to build it using any specific technology. > > What I am doing is taking the latest and greatest and building a PDP-11 > > compatible (one that act's *exactly* like an 11/70, but faster). I am > > probably not going to be using FPGA's, because I don't think they're yet > > making FPGA's the speed I want them to go. > > You do know about Mentec's new-technology pdp11 processors, right? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 20:41:51 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Re: Prints for an 11/70 (Ian Koller) References: <3C146361.7949D7B5@jetnet.ab.ca> <15382.41476.424383.688767@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C16C1B6.8A3CD70C@verizon.net> Message-ID: <15382.50159.905598.385888@phaduka.neurotica.com> Gator eggs? -Dave On December 11, Ian Koller wrote: > > > And Gator Eggs? > > > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > Yeah. I wasn't actually trying to build it using any specific technology. > > > What I am doing is taking the latest and greatest and building a PDP-11 > > > compatible (one that act's *exactly* like an 11/70, but faster). I am > > > probably not going to be using FPGA's, because I don't think they're yet > > > making FPGA's the speed I want them to go. > > > > You do know about Mentec's new-technology pdp11 processors, right? > > > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire > > St. Petersburg, FL > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 11 21:40:13 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: <3C146361.7949D7B5@jetnet.ab.ca> <15382.41476.424383.688767@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C16C1B6.8A3CD70C@verizon.net> <15382.50159.905598.385888@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C16D19C.492E1AEB@verizon.net> A processor good for use in hardware emulation designs, or so I heard? Dave McGuire wrote: > > Gator eggs? > > -Dave > > On December 11, Ian Koller wrote: > > > > > > And Gator Eggs? > > > > > > > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > > On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > Yeah. I wasn't actually trying to build it using any specific technology. > > > > What I am doing is taking the latest and greatest and building a PDP-11 > > > > compatible (one that act's *exactly* like an 11/70, but faster). I am > > > > probably not going to be using FPGA's, because I don't think they're yet > > > > making FPGA's the speed I want them to go. > > > > > > You do know about Mentec's new-technology pdp11 processors, right? > > > > > > -Dave > > > > > > -- > > > Dave McGuire > > > St. Petersburg, FL > > > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 11 21:06:36 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: Message-ID: <3C16C9BC.9D5726A5@jetnet.ab.ca> Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > > > Would 200MHz be fast enough ? A lot of the Xilinx fpga's offer 5ns pin to pin > > In a word, no. 8-) > > Peace... Sridhar May I recomend the book "CMOS - Circuit design,layout and simulation" ISBN- 0-7803-3416-7 It is a bit dated - 1998 I hope you have deep pockets as a one-off custom CMOS chip is not cheap. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 21:26:55 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3C16C9BC.9D5726A5@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > In a word, no. 8-) > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > May I recomend the book "CMOS - Circuit design,layout and simulation" > ISBN- 0-7803-3416-7 It is a bit dated - 1998 I hope you have deep > pockets > as a one-off custom CMOS chip is not cheap. I was actually thinking of having one my my friends run it off for me for free. He works in the IBM East Fishkill Process Development Lab. I was planning on doing it in discrete bipolar components. Peace... Sridhar From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Tue Dec 11 21:37:53 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: <20011210234727.L69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <3C16D111.89C2E6C8@bellsouth.net> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > Does anyone know where I might find prints for a PDP-11/70? > > The only thing I've ever found was at > > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/ > > but the PDP-11/70 printset there is an early version with a KB11-B CPU. Getting back to the original question: Has anybody scanned a complete set of drawings for the KB11-C? As Jeff pointed out, the only ones I have found online are the ones on mainecoon. I've collected quite a few drawing sets of other systems and components, both original and in electronic form. Unfortunately, I don't have the drawings for my own 11/70. -- Doug Carman pdp11 at bellsouth dot net From CLeyson at aol.com Tue Dec 11 21:39:41 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <171.57ead3c.29482b7d@aol.com> On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: >I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. Tunnel diode logic seems to be making a bit of a comeback - still in the development stage but it's better thas GaAs Williamson et al., "12 GHz Clocked Operation of Ultralow Power Interband Resonant Tunneling Diode Pipelined Logic Gates." IEEE Journal of Solid-State Circuits, Vol 32 No 2 February 1997. pp222-231 (ISSN 0018-9200) Fast enough ? Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011211/73922000/attachment.html From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 21:57:56 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <171.57ead3c.29482b7d@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 CLeyson@aol.com wrote: > >I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. > > Tunnel diode logic seems to be making a bit of a comeback - still in > the development stage but it's better thas GaAs > > Williamson et al., "12 GHz Clocked Operation of Ultralow Power > Interband Resonant Tunneling Diode Pipelined Logic Gates." > IEEE Journal of Solid-State Circuits, Vol 32 No 2 February 1997. > pp222-231 (ISSN 0018-9200) > > Fast enough ? Oooh. Oooh ooh ooh! Peace... Sridhar From mew_list at swbell.net Tue Dec 11 20:22:58 2001 From: mew_list at swbell.net (Mitch Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: SBC-11/21 Falcon -trade Message-ID: <3C16BF82.371C@swbell.net> Folks, Anyone have a M7676 Falcon board they'd like to part with? Are there schematics this one? --Mitch From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Tue Dec 11 20:25:08 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AED@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C16C004.680F72CC@verizon.net> But that $30k might go further in Kentucky than $90k would in New York or the Bay Area. Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > > > With all that iron, ya gotta throw a party sometime soon! > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's to VCF > > > > East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone else brings > > > > machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll be welcome to > hook > > > > up to me. > > > > > > Ok, Russ, to see Sridhar's stuff, we gotta get together and do a > > > > > > Hillbilly VCF 1.0 > > > > > > If we time it right and have it in Owensboro, we could > > > make it a part of the Kentucky Burgoo Festival... > > > > > > ;) > > > > Why don't you come out to VCFE next year? It'll only be about a > > half-day's drive. > > The last time I even tried to take a vacation, I saved up > from January till June to attend AudiFest '98 at Pike's > Peak. The turbo blew in the quattro a week before and it > took all I'd saved to fix it. Including selling the tickets. > > Coupled with a meager $30k yearly as a sysadmin running an IIS > webserver might give you an idea as to the dreadfullness of my > circumstances. > > Were I only willing to leave God's Country, I know I could > better that salary in a heartbeat... > > -dq From ken at seefried.com Tue Dec 11 20:35:34 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: HP HDSP-2490 In-Reply-To: <200112120148.fBC1mIN28715@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200112120148.fBC1mIN28715@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20011212023534.7692.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Perhaps slightly off-topic (other than being a resonably old part), but would anyone around here have a datasheet (or, at least, a pin-out) for an HP HDSP-2490? This is an odd, 4-digit, 5x7 led matrix display. It's in a 28-pin dip, and looks to have some intellegence built in. The answer from HP (nee Agilent) is "long since obsolete, we know nothing". Thanks... Ken From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 11 20:43:54 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: HP HDSP-2490 In-Reply-To: HP HDSP-2490 (Ken Seefried) References: <200112120148.fBC1mIN28715@ns2.ezwind.net> <20011212023534.7692.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <15382.50282.194218.155969@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Ken Seefried wrote: > Perhaps slightly off-topic (other than being a resonably old part), but > would anyone around here have a datasheet (or, at least, a pin-out) for an > HP HDSP-2490? This is an odd, 4-digit, 5x7 led matrix display. It's in a > 28-pin dip, and looks to have some intellegence built in. > > The answer from HP (nee Agilent) is "long since obsolete, we know nothing". Yeah, after all, NOBODY uses displays anymore. GOD I hate suits. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Dec 11 20:42:24 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Re-Finds while moving storages In-Reply-To: <013001c182ad$19081e00$bc721fd1@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Dec 11, 01 07:33:57 pm Message-ID: <200112120242.VAA05038@wordstock.com> > > Today I spent 8 hours moving stuff from one smaller storage unit to a > much larger one and found goodies I long forgot about. I have not seen > the back off this storage unit for almost 3 years. Here's a list of some > items; > 1. PET 2001 series 2001-8 in good shape, will take home and test it. > 2. CBM 2001 series 8 machine has been modified with new keyboard in > place of tape unit and smaller keys. > 3. Commodore model C128D in great shape. > 4. TRS80 model 1 > 5. PolyMorphic System 8813 model 8813/1 with wooden case. > 6. CPT disk unit 8 ID# 931203 > 7. ADDS Ultimate model 25 > 8. SOROC model IQ120 > 9. Franklin PC8000 in great shape > There were a lot more plus I still have not finished moving items yet. > If I was not moving I would get me a heater and play also. > Very cool!! ... Don't forget the storage locker though... ;) There was a 2001 on eBay recently with keyboard in place of the tape unit. But they were selling the keyboard unit separate from the PET! :-/ Bryan From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 20:54:40 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: DECnet License Message-ID: Hi. I have the OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit and I can't seem to find the DECnet Phase IV license PAK. I have both the OS PAK and the layered products PAK's. Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Dec 11 21:31:06 2001 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: DECnet License In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > Hi. I have the OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit and I can't seem to find the DECnet > Phase IV license PAK. I have both the OS PAK and the layered products > PAK's. Isn't that licensed under the UCX pak? See ya later, Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 11 22:01:12 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: Message-ID: <3C16D688.FF9276A4@jetnet.ab.ca> Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > In a word, no. 8-) > > > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > > May I recomend the book "CMOS - Circuit design,layout and simulation" > > ISBN- 0-7803-3416-7 It is a bit dated - 1998 I hope you have deep > > pockets > > as a one-off custom CMOS chip is not cheap. > > I was actually thinking of having one my my friends run it off for me for > free. He works in the IBM East Fishkill Process Development Lab. I was > planning on doing it in discrete bipolar components. > > Peace... Sridhar Well read the book anyway! -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 22:26:02 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:48 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3C16D688.FF9276A4@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > In a word, no. 8-) > > > > > > May I recomend the book "CMOS - Circuit design,layout and simulation" > > > ISBN- 0-7803-3416-7 It is a bit dated - 1998 I hope you have deep > > > pockets > > > as a one-off custom CMOS chip is not cheap. > > > > I was actually thinking of having one my my friends run it off for me for > > free. He works in the IBM East Fishkill Process Development Lab. I was > > planning on doing it in discrete bipolar components. > > Well read the book anyway! I'll do that. Peace... Sridhar From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 11 22:09:56 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: Message-ID: <3C16D894.31664246@jetnet.ab.ca> Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Sridhar wrote: > > > I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. > > Cool. That only requires 18 month old fab technology :-) > > Assuming you can figure out an implementation that will > work within the limits of the fab's process, can bum > simulator time and are a reasonably capable mix of > CPU designer and floorplan wizard it shouldn't cost > you more than low to mid six figures (US) to buy your > way into a fab that has a process that can hit that > speed range. If you don't mind manual labor, you can get free software. http://members.aol.com/lasicad/index.htm It goes with the fore mentioned book. Prototype fab will be about $30K. ( depends on chip size ). The real problem is the patents / intellectual property of DEC here. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Dec 11 22:25:49 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3C16D894.31664246@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Ben Franchuk wrote: [snip] > Prototype fab will be about $30K. ( depends on chip size ). Um, if you can point me to a .18 or finer fab that will even answer the phone for $30K I'd love to hear about it. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Dec 11 23:12:20 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: Message-ID: <3C16E734.6B6CFE8B@jetnet.ab.ca> Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > [snip] > > > Prototype fab will be about $30K. ( depends on chip size ). > > Um, if you can point me to a .18 or finer fab that will even > answer the phone for $30K I'd love to hear about it. This is a top of the head figure. Since I have computer budget of $50 a month I don't check that often for the latest fab prices. I will stick to slow FPGA's for now. That is not to say I would not like my latest and not so great cpu in real silicon. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html PS. Note even doing chip design in slow technology will show the strengths and weakness of a design. Remember too with the massive pipelining that a real instruction could be 1/10 the clock speed. Note I still think the 6800/6500 architecture makes sense than massive pipelining to save a few % in clock cycles. From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Tue Dec 11 22:20:54 2001 From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200112120420.RAA17000@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> Chris Kennedy : > Maybe you should wait five years and see how fast > programmable logic gets ;-) But in 5 years he'll want it to go at 32GHz... Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+ University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a | Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc. | greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+ From rws at enteract.com Tue Dec 11 22:33:02 2001 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. What about some sort of non-saturating logic, like ECL? I know they have it down to several hundred picosecond propagation times. I'd suspect you can buy it in unmounted dies, so you can cram enough on a board to make it reasonably sized and with short enough traces. Then you get the challenge of cooling it... Richard Schauer rws@enteract.com From vance at ikickass.org Tue Dec 11 22:58:09 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Richard W. Schauer wrote: > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. > > What about some sort of non-saturating logic, like ECL? I know they have > it down to several hundred picosecond propagation times. I'd suspect you > can buy it in unmounted dies, so you can cram enough on a board to make it > reasonably sized and with short enough traces. Then you get the challenge > of cooling it... That's a thought. I will have to look into that? Peace... Sridhar From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 11 22:18:55 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > But, expect cat and dog hair. In particular, expect cat hair in > > > keyboards; cats take to keyboards like taxi drivers take to beaded seat > > > cushions! > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > My cats have always been more intent on distracting me than playing with > > the computer, or sleep on it. They'll walk on the keyboard while I'm > > using it, or walk in my line of the monitor, etc. > > I think what happens with keyboards is that the cat hair settles in it > > from the air..... cat hair becomes air borne very easily. Since you > > can't really wipe the hair off from in between the keys.... like you can > > wipe the hair from the desk, so it just builds up. > > I deal with all of the computers for the Berkeley East Bay Humane > Society. The resident cats in the office all like to sleep on keyboards. > > I set them up with keyboard drawers whenever I can get them cheap, or they > get donated (hint. HINT!) But training the office staff to shut the > drawers when not in use isn't easy. Yeh, probably as easy as training a cat! - don > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Dec 11 23:05:21 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: Message-ID: <3C16E591.9E1CC646@internet1.net> Borax? The laundry booster? What is Alconox? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > I believe that Jon Singer and I reached a consensus that Alconox and Borax > can do something about it. 8-) > > Peace... Sridhar From fernande at internet1.net Tue Dec 11 23:08:21 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF81@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <01Dec11.121300est.119234@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <15382.21107.774288.382878@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C16E645.889D4E4@internet1.net> Oh, you didn't say you had a "crazy cat lady" on your hands. That is a lot of cats! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Jeff Hellige wrote: > A single cat isn't much of a problem, but the woman I'm > referring to has a dozen or more. Even her office has more than it's > share of cat hair, as she's worked in it for about 15 years. That > many cats make a bit of a difference! > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 11 22:31:50 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Dec 11, 2001 09:31:06 PM Message-ID: <200112120432.fBC4WGH01552@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Hi. I have the OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit and I can't seem to find the DECnet > > Phase IV license PAK. I have both the OS PAK and the layered products > > PAK's. > > Isn't that licensed under the UCX pak? No, UCX is TCPIP. You need DVNETEND or DVNETEXT. Zane DVNETEND DECnet/OSI End-Node OpenVMS AXP MTF 42.25.xx DVNETEND DECnet/OSI End-Node OpenVMS VAX D04 25.03.xx DVNETEND Basic function license (DVNETEND) --- provides end system support. DVNETEXT DECnet/OSI EF OpenVMS AXP MTG 42.25.xx DVNETEXT DECnet/OSI EF OpenVMS AXP MTH 25.03.xx DVNETEXT Extended function license (DVNETEXT) for Alpha systems --- provides end system support, DECdts server, cluster alias, and OSI applications gateways. A DVNETRTG license which isn't supplied would be needed to run a DECdns server From dittman at dittman.net Tue Dec 11 22:39:41 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License In-Reply-To: from "Boatman on the River of Suck" at Dec 11, 2001 09:54:40 PM Message-ID: <200112120439.fBC4df726102@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Hi. I have the OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit and I can't seem to find the DECnet > Phase IV license PAK. I have both the OS PAK and the layered products > PAK's. The DECnet licenses are DVNET*. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 11 22:34:54 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Need "PC Mouse" driver for PCjr .. Message-ID: >I've been using a Logitech Wheel Mouse (optical) for more than a year now >on my OS/2-based pc. > >My Sparc has an old-style optical mouse (requires special HARD TO FIND >pad). Easy to find, NEVER cheap. ;) I used to sell them for $5 to $10, then a local Sun guy found out I had some and he bought them all. Me too on the optical meese. I bought a CHEAP Inland brand for $8.99 at MicroCenter, and its almost weird at first using it because it NEVER skips, sticks,etc. and my brain isn't used to that. The scroll wheel spoils you real fast too. My finger is already "looking" for it on lesser mice. My understanding is that the new optical mice compare the surface image to detect movement. Fancy stuff, but isn't the interface to the PC still the same? From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Dec 11 22:55:57 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: H89 docs/help requested Message-ID: <20011212045759.BVP29288.imf11bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Tony Duell > When you do a few more tests, I'll dig out the manual. I know I have all > the schematics, etc... Sounds good -- and thanks for all the help on this box. I just got my Z-100 up and dual-booting CP/M-86 and ZDOS, so the H89 is now at the top of my Unfinished Projects List. Glen 0/0 From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Dec 11 23:15:11 2001 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <20011212051714.GKII26840.imf05bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: David Woyciesjes > Speaking of drinking, Tuesdays (tonight!) are when my APA Pool Team > plays. We're in first, with only two more matches to go! Then playoffs for > the States, then it's off to Vegas after States! Woo-hoo, hopefully! Hope you make it to Vegas! BTW what level are you? I shot for a few years but never made it beyond a 4. No problem making the shots but post-shot cue ball positioning hung me up. Glen 0/0 From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 11 23:25:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? References: Message-ID: <003a01c182cd$6a976da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Why would anyone want to do such a thing? You just it hook up with a simple RCA cable to a TV set with a VIDEO input, which nearly all of them have nowadays. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boatman on the River of Suck" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > 15 Pin > > This isn't really a video output, its a video output ADAPTER connection, ie > > the signals are there, but without the juice to drive more than a few > > inches of cable. Sounds like a great project for somebody, designing a > > modern monitor adapter connection. > > Couldn't you do it with a VGA line driver? > > Peace... Sridhar > > From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 11 23:50:54 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Google USENET Archive expanded In-Reply-To: <200112120041.fBC0fZx25442@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20011211234837.Q72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm not surprised, I've not had a chance to see what kinds of PDP-10 > and PDP-11 stuff can be dug up. Is anybody thinking what I'm thinking? "Hello, you posted the following message to USENET about 15 years ago. I was wondering if that machine was still available for pickup." -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 06:38:41 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Google USENET Archive expanded Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF6@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I'm not surprised, I've not had a chance to see what kinds of PDP-10 > > and PDP-11 stuff can be dug up. > > Is anybody thinking what I'm thinking? > > "Hello, you posted the following message to USENET about 15 years ago. > I was wondering if that machine was still available for pickup." I was developing a TAPI/TSPI driver for Rockwell-based chipset voice modems back in 1994. I *still* get requests for expertise on the chipset... -dq From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Dec 12 07:18:52 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Google USENET Archive expanded In-Reply-To: <200112112359.fBBNxV222246@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20011212081852.0103fbec@obregon.multi.net.co> At 03:59 PM 12/11/01 -0800, Zane wrote: >I just saw this on /., the Google USENET archive has been expanded back to >May 12th, 1981! It's a great day for Classic Computing! Looks like the >oldest message in their archive is DEC related since it talks about a Unibus >Versatec interface card. Yes, I read that too and proceeded to search for my first post. I could not find it; I think that the archive is still incomplete. I should have shown up as EG200123@vmtecmex.bitnet sometime in 1988-89 (the digits might be wrong). We had to be routed through ksuvm.ksu.edu or ricevm1.rice.edu . For a while we used bang-paths... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jss at subatomix.com Tue Dec 11 23:56:14 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Re-Finds while moving storages In-Reply-To: <013b01c182b2$86709800$bc721fd1@default> Message-ID: <20011211235439.T72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Moving to Houston on the 25th of this month (1st trip/load), will take > about 5 trips using a 24' rental truck to get all the computers and > stuff down there from MN. ^^^^^^^ Judging from the rental rates I paid earlier this year, I do not envy your situation. Which rental company are you using? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Dec 12 08:02:15 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Cost of move(Re-Finds while moving storages) References: <20011211235439.T72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <006201c18315$a7ffde00$63721fd1@default> I'm using Budget and you are right the cost is very high. I tried to find someone with their own tractor and trailer but no luck so that I could get it all there in one trip. I not only have rent trucks but purchase several airline tickets to fly back here from Texas each time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:56 PM Subject: Re: Re-Finds while moving storages > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > > Moving to Houston on the 25th of this month (1st trip/load), will take > > about 5 trips using a 24' rental truck to get all the computers and > > stuff down there from MN. > ^^^^^^^ > Judging from the rental rates I paid earlier this year, I do not envy your > situation. Which rental company are you using? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 06:18:59 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Re-Finds while moving storages Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF1@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Moving to Houston on the 25th of this month (1st trip/load), will take > about 5 trips using a 24' rental truck to get all the computers and > stuff down there from MN. Dude- Wouldn't United Van Lines be cheaper? They move vintage computers with the same grace and delicacy that they move fine crystal or china. -dq From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 00:20:52 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License In-Reply-To: <200112120439.fBC4df726102@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Hi. I have the OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit and I can't seem to find the DECnet > > Phase IV license PAK. I have both the OS PAK and the layered products > > PAK's. > > The DECnet licenses are DVNET*. Thanks. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Dec 12 01:06:27 2001 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License In-Reply-To: <200112120432.fBC4WGH01552@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Isn't that licensed under the UCX pak? > > No, UCX is TCPIP. You need DVNETEND or DVNETEXT. > > Zane Oh. I have to admit, VMS pretty much escapes me in general. Give me a little time with most any unix and I can get around pretty OK, but I've been trying off-and-on for a year to get my head around this stuff and it just don't hunt. I'm still looking for that magical "first clue". Doc From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 01:39:52 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Doc wrote: > Oh. > I have to admit, VMS pretty much escapes me in general. Give me a > little time with most any unix and I can get around pretty OK, but > I've been trying off-and-on for a year to get my head around this stuff > and it just don't hunt. I'm still looking for that magical "first clue". The "help" and "show" commands are your friends. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Dec 12 01:49:54 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License References: Message-ID: <041901c182e1$97605590$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 5:36 PM Subject: Re: DECnet License > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > Isn't that licensed under the UCX pak? > > > > No, UCX is TCPIP. You need DVNETEND or DVNETEXT. > > > > Zane > > Oh. > I have to admit, VMS pretty much escapes me in general. Give me a > little time with most any unix and I can get around pretty OK, but > I've been trying off-and-on for a year to get my head around this stuff > and it just don't hunt. I'm still looking for that magical "first clue". The clue is that "It ain't Unix" so you need not to think Unix oriented thoughts, because it just does not work like it. The DCL syntax is vaguely reminiscent of DOS in some ways, but it's really not a lot like anything other than VMS, though some of the file and directory privs are suggestive of Netware. A few things. LOGICAL ~= DOS Environment Variable (SET) SYMBOL is a settable 'alias' for a longer command, can be defined from DCL, sylogin.com or login.com USER SYSTEM = ROOT under Unix, but unlike Unix, any user can be made with equivalent privs, or anything between that and nothing. The default home directory for SYSTEM is SYS$MANAGER, where the SY*.COM (System wide) .com files live, and SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM which is more or less like the DOS AUTOEXEC.BAT. SET DEFAULT (path) = CD SHOW DEFAULT = PWD in Unix. DIR = DIR (!) LS works if you are ftping in usually. A .COM file is not a binary, it's more like a DOS batch file or a shell script. to run a com file, precede with an @ sign. to run an EXE file precede it with the RUN (or just R) command ie R AUTHORIZE The path syntax is unique, but basically it's DEVICENAME:[dir.dir.dir.dir]filename.ext;version so to go to the root of the system disk (boot drive) the correct command would be SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000] SHO DEFAULT would give SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000] File sizes are reported as the number of 512byte blocks. There is no common root directory, each drive has it's own, and there can also be logical roots that are a higher level directory. For instance MX_ROOT:[000000] is, on a typical system, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[MX] and/or (on ours) $1$DUA1:[MX] The root directory of any drive is DEVICENAME:[000000] If there is something specific you have trouble with, post here and I'll do my best, I spend my working day sitting next to a VMS 6.0 Vax 6440. Cheers Geoff in Oz From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 12 01:43:21 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License In-Reply-To: References: <200112120432.fBC4WGH01552@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> > Isn't that licensed under the UCX pak? >> >> No, UCX is TCPIP. You need DVNETEND or DVNETEXT. >> >> Zane > >Oh. > I have to admit, VMS pretty much escapes me in general. Give me a >little time with most any unix and I can get around pretty OK, but >I've been trying off-and-on for a year to get my head around this stuff >and it just don't hunt. I'm still looking for that magical "first clue". > > Doc Well, you just stumbled across what's probably the most confusing part of VMS! Namely trying to figure out which license PAKs activate which networking bits :^) Dunno, I came to VMS from a strong UNIX background, and now I prefer VMS for the most part. It just clicked for me I guess. OTOH, maybe it's just my love of books getting the best of me :^) You can't beat the OpenVMS docset! What kind of problems are you having with VMS? Outside of comp.os.vms this is probably the best place to ask VMS related questions. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Dec 12 10:39:06 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF95@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff Roberts [mailto:geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au] > like anything other than VMS, though some of the file and > directory privs > are suggestive of Netware. Rather, some of the netware privs are suggestive of VMS. ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Dec 12 16:56:06 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF95@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <001501c18360$2f776f20$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:09 AM Subject: RE: DECnet License > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Geoff Roberts [mailto:geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au] > > > like anything other than VMS, though some of the file and > > directory privs > > are suggestive of Netware. > > Rather, some of the netware privs are suggestive of VMS. ;) Either or, but probably a better description as I suspect VMS predates netware. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ 1970476 From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 17:08:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: DECnet License In-Reply-To: Re: DECnet License (Geoff Roberts) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF95@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <001501c18360$2f776f20$de2c67cb@helpdesk> Message-ID: <15383.58224.494319.805620@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 13, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > like anything other than VMS, though some of the file and > > > directory privs > > > are suggestive of Netware. > > > > Rather, some of the netware privs are suggestive of VMS. ;) > > Either or, but probably a better description as I suspect VMS predates > netware. By quite a while, yes. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 00:22:29 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <3C16E591.9E1CC646@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Borax? The laundry booster? Yes. Borax emulsifies grease. > What is Alconox? Alconox is a soap designed to clean laboratory equipment. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 00:34:02 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Re: Smoking around computers (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <3C16E591.9E1CC646@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15382.64090.414009.425750@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > Alconox is a soap designed to clean laboratory equipment. It is WONDERFUL STUFF. Really incredible stuff. See http://www.alconox.com. Though it's not really targeted at individuals, you can buy it straight from their web site. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 01:20:08 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Re: Smoking around computers (Don Maslin) References: Message-ID: <15383.1320.934150.967978@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 11, Don Maslin wrote: > Yeh, probably as easy as training a cat! Training cats is actually rather easy. It's commonly thought to be difficult or impossible because most people try to train them using the same methods they use to train dogs...which fail miserably. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 06:30:40 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF5@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > I set them up with keyboard drawers whenever I can get them cheap, or they > > get donated (hint. HINT!) But training the office staff to shut the > > drawers when not in use isn't easy. > > Yeh, probably as easy as training a cat! Training cats is easy; herding them is something else (witness Jay's efforts to entice us to stay on-topic)! -dq From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Dec 12 10:37:12 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF94@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > On December 11, Don Maslin wrote: > > Yeh, probably as easy as training a cat! > Training cats is actually rather easy. It's commonly thought to be > difficult or impossible because most people try to train them using > the same methods they use to train dogs...which fail miserably. Ok, I give up -- how do you train a cat? :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 12 11:01:49 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF94@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > > > On December 11, Don Maslin wrote: > > > Yeh, probably as easy as training a cat! [snipt] > > Ok, I give up -- how do you train a cat? :) Tie it to the tracks. Cheers John From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 12 11:15:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF94@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <001101c18330$953916e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've only had one cat (I prefer dogs, as it turns out.) but that one was completely toilet trained by the time she was 9 months old, which was the last time I saw her. We used one of those then-popular toilet training kits and it seems to have worked as advertised. That certainly dispells the myth that cats are totally untrainable. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:37 AM Subject: RE: Smoking around computers > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > > > On December 11, Don Maslin wrote: > > > Yeh, probably as easy as training a cat! > > > Training cats is actually rather easy. It's commonly thought to be > > difficult or impossible because most people try to train them using > > the same methods they use to train dogs...which fail miserably. > > Ok, I give up -- how do you train a cat? :) > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > From dittman at dittman.net Wed Dec 12 11:54:27 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <001101c18330$953916e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 12, 2001 10:15:22 AM Message-ID: <200112121754.fBCHsRi28069@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I've only had one cat (I prefer dogs, as it turns out.) but that one was > completely toilet trained by the time she was 9 months old, which was the last > time I saw her. We used one of those then-popular toilet training kits and it > seems to have worked as advertised. That certainly dispells the myth that cats > are totally untrainable. When I was growing up we had a cat that learned to use the toilet on its own. It couldn't flush, though. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 11:51:28 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: RE: Smoking around computers (Christopher Smith) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF94@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <15383.39200.474107.323139@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Christopher Smith wrote: > > Training cats is actually rather easy. It's commonly thought to be > > difficult or impossible because most people try to train them using > > the same methods they use to train dogs...which fail miserably. > > Ok, I give up -- how do you train a cat? :) One important thing is not to piss them off. Most dogs seem to exist to please their owners, and will do pretty much anything for them. Cats are much less "cheap" about it, for lack fo a better term...it's much more of a peer-to-peer relationship, but letting them know who's in control is still important. One can "dominate" a dog by intimidation, but one generally cannot with cats. You must have their trust and their respect, otherwise all is lost. And yes, the water bottle trick does work, but overuse of that technique...or use of it before the aforementioned trust and respect are established...will likely prove counterproductive. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Dec 12 11:23:19 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: >Ok, I give up -- how do you train a cat? :) Water spray bottle works wonders. 3 spritz later and one of my cats has stopped popping the hampster cage open and carrying the hampster around the house. Some people say tape works well to keep them off things (sticky side up), but both my cats seem to rather like it, and I find they stand on it padding at the tape purring happily. -c From dittman at dittman.net Wed Dec 12 11:52:53 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Dec 12, 2001 12:23:19 PM Message-ID: <200112121752.fBCHqsF28053@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Ok, I give up -- how do you train a cat? :) > > Water spray bottle works wonders. 3 spritz later and one of my cats has > stopped popping the hampster cage open and carrying the hampster around > the house. This sounds interesting. I'm surprised the cat didn't kill the hamster playing with it. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Dec 12 16:29:11 2001 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <200112121752.fBCHqsF28053@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > This sounds interesting. I'm surprised the cat didn't kill the hamster > playing with it. Nah, when a cat's not hungry, it can be incredibly cruel. We have 2 cats - the aforementioned hellbitch and her first kitten. Rascal brought in a live deermouse one night and the 2 cats tortured that mouse for nearly 4 hours. They would pick it up & carry it without biting, bat it around with claws retracted, and let the mouse get nearly to cover before heading it off. I had some cracked ribs and a head-full of codeine, and couldn't catch the dern thing to put it out. When I did catch it after 4 hours, the mouse was exhausted, but I don't think it was seriously injured. That's the night Rascal earned the "hellbitch" title.... See ya later, Doc From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 12 18:06:20 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > This sounds interesting. I'm surprised the cat didn't kill the hamster > > playing with it. > > Nah, when a cat's not hungry, it can be incredibly cruel. It's not that they're cruel. A mouse to a well fed cat is nothing more than a self-propelled toy. :) g. From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Dec 12 13:35:44 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: >This sounds interesting. I'm surprised the cat didn't kill the hamster >playing with it. I think if I hadn't gotten to the cat fast enough, she would have... fortuantly, the cage makes a LOT of noise when the cat would pop it open, and after the 2nd time, I started using the water bottle. I can't blame her, I got her as a stray, so rodents were probably her main source of food (that and it seems Wendy's french fries since she will claw your eyes out to get to them). I just wish she would start catching the damn mice... its getting cold out, I don't want to have to keep pissing on the outside of the house to lower the mouse input (yes, that actually works, I realized that the spray I was using was simply fox pee, so I decided one day to try MY pee, and it works just as well, just doesn't last quite as long since it isn't cut with oil to help it stick... saves me the $10 a bottle, but I have to re-"spray" every few days instead of every week or so... side effect, my wife's flower bed has never looked better!) and now this has moved WAY off topic. -c From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 13:48:56 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: Re: Smoking around computers (Chris) References: Message-ID: <15383.46248.764076.258553@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Chris wrote: > catching the damn mice... its getting cold out, I don't want to have to > keep pissing on the outside of the house to lower the mouse input (yes, > that actually works, I realized that the spray I was using was simply fox > pee, so I decided one day to try MY pee, and it works just as well, just > doesn't last quite as long since it isn't cut with oil to help it > stick... saves me the $10 a bottle, but I have to re-"spray" every few > days instead of every week or so... side effect, my wife's flower bed has > never looked better!) Admit it, Chris...you just like peeing outside. ;) -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From dittman at dittman.net Wed Dec 12 14:36:34 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: from "Chris" at Dec 12, 2001 02:35:44 PM Message-ID: <200112122036.fBCKaYF28488@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I can't blame her, I got her as a stray, so rodents were probably her > main source of food (that and it seems Wendy's french fries since she > will claw your eyes out to get to them)... My wife and I have a cat that we adopted as a kitten. One day we stopped by Wendy's on the way home and bought some dinner to go. I usually get a Wendy's double, and I had it on the kitchen table with the top bun off to add some ketchup. Quicker than a bolt of lightning, the kitten jumped on the table, grabbed the top slice of meat in her mouth, and ran for it. I caught her just before she made it off the table, but I did give her (and the rest of the cats) the slice she stole. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Dec 12 14:37:36 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C4@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! ... I just wish she would start ! catching the damn mice... its getting cold out, I don't want ! to have to keep pissing on the outside of the house to lower ! the mouse input (yes, that actually works, I realized that ! the spray I was using was simply fox pee, so I decided one ! day to try MY pee, and it works just as well, just ! doesn't last quite as long since it isn't cut with oil to help it ! stick... saves me the $10 a bottle, but I have to re-"spray" ! every few days instead of every week or so... side effect, ! my wife's flower bed has never looked better!) What about just botteling it? And cut it with what ever oil they use too? ! and now this has moved WAY off topic. You could say that. Unless, someone figures out a computerized (like, using a Vax 9000?) tracking and pee-spraying system... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From UberTechnoid at home.com Wed Dec 12 14:50:28 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C4@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20011212205223.QOER4645.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> This is the wierdest thread I've ever seen on this list. Question, do you store the stuff or just walk backwards? Regards, Jeff In <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C4@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu>, on 12/12/01 at 03:37 PM, David Woyciesjes said: >! ... I just wish she would start >! catching the damn mice... its getting cold out, I don't want ! to have >to keep pissing on the outside of the house to lower ! the mouse input >(yes, that actually works, I realized that ! the spray I was using was >simply fox pee, so I decided one ! day to try MY pee, and it works just >as well, just >! doesn't last quite as long since it isn't cut with oil to help it ! >stick... saves me the $10 a bottle, but I have to re-"spray" ! every few >days instead of every week or so... side effect, ! my wife's flower bed >has never looked better!) >What about just botteling it? And cut it with what ever oil they use too? >! and now this has moved WAY off topic. >You could say that. Unless, someone figures out a computerized (like, >using a Vax 9000?) tracking and pee-spraying system... >--- David A Woyciesjes >--- C & IS Support Specialist >--- Yale University Press >--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu >--- (203) 432-0953 >--- ICQ # - 905818 -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Dec 12 15:16:07 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > I can't blame her, I got her as a stray, so rodents were ! > probably her main source of food (that and it seems ! > Wendy's french fries since she will claw your eyes out ! > to get to them)... ! ! My wife and I have a cat that we adopted as a kitten. One ! day we stopped by Wendy's on the way home and bought some ! dinner to go. I usually get a Wendy's double, and I had it ! on the kitchen table with the top bun off to add some ! ketchup. Quicker than a bolt of lightning, the kitten ! jumped on the table, grabbed the top slice of meat in her ! mouth, and ran for it. I caught her just before she made ! it off the table, but I did give her (and the rest of the ! cats) the slice she stole. ! -- ! Eric Dittman Just don't leave creamed corn out for my Isabelle. She'll drink all the juice right down... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 12 16:55:33 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:49 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: > > Just don't leave creamed corn out for my Isabelle. She'll drink all > the juice right down... > My cat Promethus will take your face off for the chance at a few Chilli Cheese Fritos... g. From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Dec 12 16:18:06 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers In-Reply-To: ; from geneb@deltasoft.com on Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 02:55:33PM -0800 References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C5@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <20011212161806.C7921903@uiuc.edu> Gene Buckle said: > > > > Just don't leave creamed corn out for my Isabelle. She'll drink all > > the juice right down... > > > My cat Promethus will take your face off for the chance at a few Chilli > Cheese Fritos... one of my parent's cats likes lettuce. it's both weird and funny, as a cat's teeth aren't exactly designed to process broad-leafed vegtables. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/78223e85/attachment.bin From jss at subatomix.com Wed Dec 12 00:33:07 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <20011212014544.DKVO23490.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20011212001049.D72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> One of the coolest moments in my life was when I met, entirely by chance, an old lady at the local hospital that was one of the early Real Programmers. She was sharing a double-bed room with my girlfriend's grandmother. I believe she said she had worked with the ENIAC, but I am not certain. She said that when she retired, video display terminals were just beginning to supplant printing terminals. There was a whole conversation in there somewhere, but unfortunately it has been forgotten in the sands of time. Nevertheless, it was a truly spiritual experience. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 03:55:12 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Re: RIP: Betty Holberton (Jeffrey S. Sharp) References: <20011212014544.DKVO23490.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <20011212001049.D72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <15383.10624.355157.504724@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > One of the coolest moments in my life was when I met, entirely by chance, > an old lady at the local hospital that was one of the early Real > Programmers. She was sharing a double-bed room with my girlfriend's > grandmother. > > I believe she said she had worked with the ENIAC, but I am not certain. > She said that when she retired, video display terminals were just > beginning to supplant printing terminals. There was a whole conversation > in there somewhere, but unfortunately it has been forgotten in the sands > of time. > > Nevertheless, it was a truly spiritual experience. WOW...I would love to have talked with her for an hour or two. Or three. Maybe four. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From marvin at rain.org Wed Dec 12 09:28:48 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton References: <20011212014544.DKVO23490.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <20011212001049.D72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> <15383.10624.355157.504724@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C1777B0.2165F61B@rain.org> I was at an Orienteering meet this past weekend and got to talking with a woman I met a year or two ago. Turns out she was also a programmer and I think she said she had also worked with the Eniac. She is coming up either today or tomorrow. Seems like a good time to "cross examine" her :). I have found several people who had worked on the older computers, usually after they have died :(. Dave McGuire wrote: > > On December 12, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > One of the coolest moments in my life was when I met, entirely by chance, > > an old lady at the local hospital that was one of the early Real > > Programmers. She was sharing a double-bed room with my girlfriend's > > grandmother. > > > > I believe she said she had worked with the ENIAC, but I am not certain. > > She said that when she retired, video display terminals were just > > beginning to supplant printing terminals. There was a whole conversation > > in there somewhere, but unfortunately it has been forgotten in the sands > > of time. > > > > Nevertheless, it was a truly spiritual experience. > > WOW...I would love to have talked with her for an hour or two. Or > three. Maybe four. From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 17:11:39 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Re: RIP: Betty Holberton (Marvin Johnston) References: <20011212014544.DKVO23490.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <20011212001049.D72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> <15383.10624.355157.504724@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3C1777B0.2165F61B@rain.org> Message-ID: <15383.58411.894286.80558@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Marvin Johnston wrote: > I was at an Orienteering meet this past weekend and got to talking with > a woman I met a year or two ago. Turns out she was also a programmer and > I think she said she had also worked with the Eniac. She is coming up > either today or tomorrow. Seems like a good time to "cross examine" her > :). I have found several people who had worked on the older computers, > usually after they have died :(. Befriend this person while she's still around, man! I'll be she's got GREAT stories to tell! 8-) It wouldn't hurt to thank her for her efforts too, at the risk of sounding weird...I, for one, would likely have a very boring life if it weren't for the work of those early pioneers. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 06:20:08 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > Look to /. > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. She coined "debug"; the the use of the word "bug" to denote a flaw in a design was in common use in Edison's time; some claim it was coined by early telegraphers. -dq From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 12 07:01:11 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > Look to /. > > > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > > She coined "debug"; the the use of the word "bug" to denote > a flaw in a design was in common use in Edison's time; some > claim it was coined by early telegraphers. > I, in fact have a telegraphy text from about 1880 that specifically uses the word 'bug' to mean a fault or defect in the circuitry. I had a copy of the page up on my old website. When I get the book back out of storage in late February I can give a title and publisher. This is in the same box with the 'Century Magazine' bound set that has a (sort of) flying steam-powered airplane designed and built by Hiram Maxim in England in 1892... the same Maxim who developed the Maxim machine gun, and whose son, Hiram P. Maxim, founded the American Radio Relay League. But I digress... Cheers John From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 12 13:24:16 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > Look to /. > > > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > > She coined "debug"; the the use of the word "bug" to denote > a flaw in a design was in common use in Edison's time; some > claim it was coined by early telegraphers. > > -dq My recollection from one of her presentations some years ago was that she claimed to have found the first computer bug in the Eniac - a moth IIRC - and debugged it by removing said moth. She was a pretty level headed and down to earth lady. - don From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Dec 12 18:22:31 2001 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Terminal Server Message-ID: I just picked up an Encore Corp. Annex Terminal server from my university's salvage. It seems to power up ok and I can get it to have a link to my network. I can even set an ip address to it. However I can't ping it. It seems to want to net boot (as far as i can tell). Anyone have the boot software for these or have a resource to point me towards? The manufacturer's site seems to be of no help, and neither is google. Here's the specifics: Encore Computer Corp. Annex Model # ANN-01 (Cant really read first char, can be different) >From starting it with the switch in 'diag mode' i can get it to spit out the following: Board ID 11 - Serial Number 87 REV ROM: Maj Rev 3 Min Rev 1 ROM Software Rev # 0305 Thanks to anyone that has any ideas. -- Pat From vcf at vintage.org Wed Dec 12 18:28:28 2001 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Emerald Systems digital cassette drive Message-ID: Ok, now I found an Emerald Systems digital cassette drive. This is an internal drive and has its own interface card. However, I don't have a driver disk or manual for this one either. Does anyone have the drivers or a manual? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at vintage.org Wed Dec 12 18:34:16 2001 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need Xpress Librarian software Message-ID: Ok, after a quick web search, it looks like I may be able to use a program called Xpress Librarian to access this drive. Anybody got it? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From vcf at vintage.org Wed Dec 12 18:40:20 2001 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need Xpress Librarian software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Never mind. Xpress Librarian most likely only works on their contemporary drives. I need the proprietary software that originally came with this drive, or some other software that will work with it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From CLeyson at aol.com Wed Dec 12 20:26:23 2001 From: CLeyson at aol.com (CLeyson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Nanoseconds per foot (RE: RIP: Betty Holberton) Message-ID: For coax or twisted pair the delay per unit length is given by:- Delay (Secs/unit length) = Root( (C/unit length)*(L/unit length) ) Example: For RG58-U coax, C=100pF/m and L=250nH/m Delay = root(250E-9*100E-12) = 5E-9 sec/m or 5ns/m A pulse will travel 66% slower in RG-58 cable than free space. If anyone needs to lay out high speed PCB's the following book is highly recommended: "High Speed Digital Design - A Handbook of Black Magic" Howard W Johnson and Martin Graham ISBN 0-13-395724-1 Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/79b80571/attachment.html From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Dec 12 18:20:59 2001 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Free Stuff fo pickup in SF bay area Message-ID: 2 Tektronix 4051 manual 1 Tektronix 4051 ROM expansion unit (W binary loader ROM and GPIO) 1 4051 ROM expansion unit manual 1 Morrow MicroDecision computer W/manuals and disks 1 DEC Alpha 2100 4 misc HP700 HPPA series (720,735) Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Dec 12 18:00:04 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Hardrive.sys for HardCard ? Message-ID: <200112130000.fBD008447901@ns2.ezwind.net> > Thanks but Arlen Michaels send me the files. They were for a 40 Mb hard >card but the driver (Plusdrv.sys) seems to work fine. Any chance you can forward those drivers my way? I have a 40mb HardCard that I would like to see if I can get working. Thanks -chris From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Wed Dec 12 15:53:40 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Linus's first announcement Message-ID: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1991Oct5.054106.4647%40klaava.Helsinki .FI This post is over 10 years old so it's a classic. Note the line that goes "Hurd will be out in a year (or two, or next month, who knows)[...]" and giggle. -Philip From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 12 17:03:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Hardrive.sys for HardCard ? In-Reply-To: <3C1676BB.AAFC3C69@ccp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20011211142817.007cc510@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011212180326.007b9c20@mailhost.intellistar.net> Gary, Thanks but Arlen Michaels send me the files. They were for a 40 Mb hard card but the driver (Plusdrv.sys) seems to work fine. Joe At 03:12 PM 12/11/01 -0600, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> Anybody know where I can download a copy of "hardrive.sys" for a 105Mb hard >> card? >> >> Joe > > >I think I have a copy of the software with mine . . . gotta look first. >I know I have 5 1/4 media, and there shouold be 3.5 as well. > >Gary HIldebrand > From spedraja at ono.com Wed Dec 12 17:30:55 2001 From: spedraja at ono.com (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Hardrive.sys for HardCard ? Message-ID: <024b01c18365$0bc3c740$3f912a3e@margarita.spedraja.net> I'll agree a lot to obtain one copy of this driver because I have another Hardcard of 105 Mb in my IBM XT-286 and it appears to have some working problems with its actual driver. Thanks in advance and Greetings Sergio -----Mensaje original----- De: Joe Para: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Fecha: jueves, 13 de diciembre de 2001 0:21 Asunto: Re: Hardrive.sys for HardCard ? >Gary, > > Thanks but Arlen Michaels send me the files. They were for a 40 Mb hard >card but the driver (Plusdrv.sys) seems to work fine. > > Joe > >At 03:12 PM 12/11/01 -0600, you wrote: >>Joe wrote: >>> >>> Anybody know where I can download a copy of "hardrive.sys" for a 105Mb hard >>> card? >>> >>> Joe >> >> >>I think I have a copy of the software with mine . . . gotta look first. >>I know I have 5 1/4 media, and there shouold be 3.5 as well. >> >>Gary HIldebrand >> > From vcf at vintage.org Wed Dec 12 15:33:40 2001 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: FAQS.ORG needs funding! Message-ID: Please read this message: http://www.faqs.org/save_faqs-org.html I don't know how many of you use faqs.org to get FAQs (I don't myself) but I happened to run by this message and thought I would pass it along. They're in need of funding as they've lost their previous sponsorship. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From UberTechnoid at home.com Wed Dec 12 15:27:19 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011212214730.VIIU20460.femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> I once found a chunky roach jamming an injet's paper handler. Yes, the smokeable kind of roach. I've seen equipment literally choked with little roaches. They eat the insulation on wireing. Really gross to open a monitor that is crawling with bugs. I'm not one of those who can comfortably hold a roach or spider in thier hand. Or some of the pleasant surprises such as buying (not another!) ATR8000 to discover later that it had a Copower 88 and 256k of ram onboard. Or buying (not another!) 1050 disk drive to discover later it has a Super Archiver with Bitwriter installed. Or buying a Rana 1000 disk drive to discover that it Actually Works! A couple of years ago while working at my bench I hear a whoop from the sales floor and in rushes 'Bubba' Mac - another tech. I follow him to the bench behind the counter and see a desktop machine, i'ts skins laying next to it. Inside, near the power supply was a beautiful, full-grown, colorful, desicated butterfly. The machine hadn't been opened in the five years it had been owned. Any other spiritual (or just plain interesting) stuff found inside a computer? In , on 12/10/01 at 04:52 PM, Sellam Ismail said: >On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a >> > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. >> > >> > I understand they're high in protein. Maybe this person ate them over >> > their keyboard like others eat snacks? :) >> >> If they weren't eating snacks before they ate the marijuana seeds, they >> certainly were afterwards. :-P >Sounds like this comes from someone who knows? >:) >Just busting your chops. There's nothing wrong with smoking something >that Mother Nature put on Earth. Shame on those that think otherwise. >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Dec 12 15:28:02 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: tektronix phaser Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > I have a tektronix phaser 340 (which I think is rather less > then 10 years > old, but I'm not certain...) that has started saying "Fault > 05,000.42:8178". > I was wondering if anyone here is familiar with these > printers and/or knows > where I can get a fault code reference for them, because I > really don't want > to pay xerox to fix my printer. I have a feeling this is > something pretty > simple -- the printer was off for a while (like about 3 > months) and then just > started doing this last night. any help would be much appreciated. Well, I had some exposure to a Phaser III, but it's been a while, and I don't think I've ever seen anything like the above message. I suppose you've gone through the whole "check the cables, make sure nothing's stuck, check for grilled cheese in the ink-wells" thing? (The one I used, at least, was a thermal transfer printer. Very nice.) I might also suggest removing the cables, and if there's a NIC, pulling it to see if that's the fault location. Otherwise, it's unfortunate that most people/institutions don't have the good taste to purchase such printers ;) I'd have liked to have more exposure to them. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Dec 12 16:24:35 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: tektronix phaser In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>; from csmith@amdocs.com on Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 03:28:02PM -0600 References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20011212162435.D7921903@uiuc.edu> Christopher Smith said: > > I suppose you've gone through the whole "check the cables, make sure > nothing's stuck, check for grilled cheese in the ink-wells" thing? (The one > I used, at least, was a thermal transfer printer. Very nice.) I've done some of that, I'm planning on doing more in the next day or so. This one, too, is a thermal-transfer printer...it's one that uses the wax ink blocks. it produces beautiful, high-gloss prints when it's actually working... > Otherwise, it's unfortunate that most people/institutions don't have the > good taste to purchase such printers ;) I'd have liked to have more > exposure to them. I agree...it's a great print process. I think it has much nicer looking output then color laser, personally...more photo-like with the glossiness and all :) - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/3f52d3c3/attachment.bin From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 16:32:51 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: tektronix phaser In-Reply-To: Re: tektronix phaser (Dan Wright) References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9D@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> <20011212162435.D7921903@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <15383.56083.863783.234447@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Dan Wright wrote: > I agree...it's a great print process. I think it has much nicer looking > output then color laser, personally...more photo-like with the glossiness and > all :) It's targeted at an entirely different market than color lasers, so that's not really a valid comparison. But yes, the Phaser III output is *really* impressive. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vcf at vintage.org Wed Dec 12 15:22:27 2001 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive Message-ID: Does anyone have a manual, or know how to operate, an Everex digital cassette drive? The one I have is all black, and has a DC-37 connector on the back that I assume connects to an old-style IBM PC drive interface. If this is the case, I assume I still need drivers to run this thing? And maybe some operating software? Does anyone know what the hell I'm talking about? Please help if you can. Many brownie points await ye. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 15:53:50 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B0A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Does anyone have a manual, or know how to operate, an Everex digital > cassette drive? > > The one I have is all black, and has a DC-37 connector on the back that I > assume connects to an old-style IBM PC drive interface. If this is the > case, I assume I still need drivers to run this thing? And maybe some > operating software? An original IBM PC with the BASIC ROMs should be able to load from cassette using LOAD and save using SAVE, shouldn't it? ? -dq From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 12 16:44:13 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B0A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Does anyone have a manual, or know how to operate, an Everex digital > > cassette drive? > > > > The one I have is all black, and has a DC-37 connector on the back that I > > assume connects to an old-style IBM PC drive interface. If this is the > > case, I assume I still need drivers to run this thing? And maybe some > > operating software? > > An original IBM PC with the BASIC ROMs should be able to load > from cassette using LOAD and save using SAVE, shouldn't it? Maybe, but doubtful. This was more of a tape backup device. It uses DIGITAL cassettes. If you've never seen one, they have a square notch just off the center of the top of the cassette, and they have two slide tabs to turn write-protection on/off. Otherwise, it looks just like a regular analog cassette tape. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 12 18:34:58 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B0A@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: > > Does anyone have a manual, or know how to operate, an Everex digital > > cassette drive? > > The one I have is all black, and has a DC-37 connector on the back that I > > assume connects to an old-style IBM PC drive interface. If this is the > > case, I assume I still need drivers to run this thing? And maybe some > > operating software? On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > An original IBM PC with the BASIC ROMs should be able to load > from cassette using LOAD and save using SAVE, shouldn't it? Certainly not from THAT tape drive! The PC (5150) tape interface (DIN-5 next to keyboard connector), is an AUDIO interface, not digital, and not DC-37 (floppy drive connector)! Although IBM (U.S.) never sold a cable for connecting, the pinout is close enough to that of the TRS-80 to be able to use Radio Shacks cable. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 12 18:36:01 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 12, 1 04:34:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 612 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011213/1aea3710/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 12 19:26:07 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The PC (5150) tape interface (DIN-5 next to keyboard connector), is an > > AUDIO interface, not digital, and not DC-37 (floppy drive connector)! > > Although IBM (U.S.) never sold a cable for connecting, the pinout is close > > enough to that of the TRS-80 to be able to use Radio Shacks cable. On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > 'close enough' == 'identical' :-) True. For an example of 'close enough' != 'identical' : IIRC, The tech reference section on the joystick board has a drawing of the joystick from the Radio Shack Coco. BUT, ... there is a slight difference in whether the "far" side of the pots are floating v tied together. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 12 16:56:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 12, 1 01:22:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 599 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/b2462c35/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Wed Dec 12 17:13:24 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive References: Message-ID: <3C17E494.567677CE@rain.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Does anyone have a manual, or know how to operate, an Everex digital > cassette drive? Sounds pretty much like the one I have here. I don't *think* I received any drivers with it. Have you tried driverguide.com? From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 12 18:47:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive In-Reply-To: <3C17E494.567677CE@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Sounds pretty much like the one I have here. I don't *think* I > received any drivers with it. Have you tried driverguide.com? I just checked there but nothing turned up. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Dec 12 16:41:11 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: CPT 9000 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9F@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: UberTechnoid@home.com [mailto:UberTechnoid@home.com] > I recall having backup disks of the cpt provided packages. > I'll look and > see if the disks are still where I think they are. Next time > I'm at my > storage place. > BTW The CPT box I saw ran CP/M 2.2? Unfortunately, I think this one is MS-DOS. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From UberTechnoid at home.com Wed Dec 12 15:13:40 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: CPT 9000 In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF63@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20011212211426.SMDV29545.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> I recall having backup disks of the cpt provided packages. I'll look and see if the disks are still where I think they are. Next time I'm at my storage place. BTW The CPT box I saw ran CP/M 2.2? Regards, Jeff In <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF63@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, on 12/09/01 at 02:59 PM, Christopher Smith said: >Hi everybody, >I remember somebody mentioning the CPT 9000 on this list recently. >Since I just happen to be working on one, I thought I'd post this >question here. >Does anyone know where I can get some of the original software that might >take advantage of the full screen-height? I have a copy of ventura >publisher that was pre-installed, but I assume that its CPT9000 driver is >corrupt. It works with the Herc ega driver, but with the CPT9000 driver, >I just get some strange text-mode blocks. >I also wonder whether anyone's tried Minix on it, and whether that might >address the whole monitor? >Regards, >Chris >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Dec 12 14:43:09 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: OT: tektronix phaser Message-ID: <20011212144309.G7739318@uiuc.edu> I have a tektronix phaser 340 (which I think is rather less then 10 years old, but I'm not certain...) that has started saying "Fault 05,000.42:8178". I was wondering if anyone here is familiar with these printers and/or knows where I can get a fault code reference for them, because I really don't want to pay xerox to fix my printer. I have a feeling this is something pretty simple -- the printer was off for a while (like about 3 months) and then just started doing this last night. any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Dan - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/8dbf30ac/attachment.bin From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 12 16:58:40 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: OT: tektronix phaser In-Reply-To: <20011212144309.G7739318@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011212175840.007cb100@mailhost.intellistar.net> A friend of mine has an old Phaser III and he's called Tektronix directly and they've been helpfull about fixing problems and supplying updated SW drivers and the like. Joe At 02:43 PM 12/12/01 -0600, you wrote: >I have a tektronix phaser 340 (which I think is rather less then 10 years >old, but I'm not certain...) that has started saying "Fault 05,000.42:8178". >I was wondering if anyone here is familiar with these printers and/or knows >where I can get a fault code reference for them, because I really don't want >to pay xerox to fix my printer. I have a feeling this is something pretty >simple -- the printer was off for a while (like about 3 months) and then just >started doing this last night. any help would be much appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Dan > >- Dan Wright >(dtwright@uiuc.edu) >(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > >-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- >``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\OT tektronix phaser" > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 12 20:10:21 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: OT: tektronix phaser References: <3.0.6.32.20011212175840.007cb100@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <005001c1837b$5197bf40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> These things have been around for well over a decade, so they're not OT. Pretty decent technology for the late '80's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:58 PM Subject: Re: OT: tektronix phaser > A friend of mine has an old Phaser III and he's called Tektronix directly > and they've been helpfull about fixing problems and supplying updated SW > drivers and the like. > > Joe > > At 02:43 PM 12/12/01 -0600, you wrote: > >I have a tektronix phaser 340 (which I think is rather less then 10 years > >old, but I'm not certain...) that has started saying "Fault 05,000.42:8178". > >I was wondering if anyone here is familiar with these printers and/or knows > >where I can get a fault code reference for them, because I really don't want > >to pay xerox to fix my printer. I have a feeling this is something pretty > >simple -- the printer was off for a while (like about 3 months) and then just > >started doing this last night. any help would be much appreciated. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Dan > > > >- Dan Wright > >(dtwright@uiuc.edu) > >(http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) > > > >-] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- > >``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, > > For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' > > Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\Attach\OT tektronix phaser" > > > > From at258 at osfn.org Wed Dec 12 14:41:31 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 6000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You know, we might havew a spare terminal. I'd have to look. I'm pretty sure we might have the disks somewhere, too, but it would take some serious digging and we'd have to get our 6000 up and run ning. Rather a nice little system, isn't it? On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Owen Robertson wrote: > I am very happy today - I'm finally getting a TRS-80 Model 6000! Anyway I > was wondering if anyone has any software for it (it runs Xenix, which it > has), or the hardware manual, as I am only getting the Xenix manuals. And if > anyone has one of those neat little TRS-80 DT-1 terminals for it, I'd love > that. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From univac2 at earthlink.net Wed Dec 12 11:54:55 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model I Availible Message-ID: I found somebody who has a Model I with some other peripheral things for sale. He has an X-10 controller, hi-resolution joystick interface, maybe some other things too. Whoever's interested, email me off-list and I'll give you his phone number (he's not on the internet). Thanks, Owen From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 13:34:55 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: RE: RIP: Betty Holberton (Don Maslin) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF2@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15383.45407.313919.742673@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Don Maslin wrote: > > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > > > > She coined "debug"; the the use of the word "bug" to denote > > a flaw in a design was in common use in Edison's time; some > > claim it was coined by early telegraphers. > > My recollection from one of her presentations some years ago was that > she claimed to have found the first computer bug in the Eniac - a moth > IIRC - and debugged it by removing said moth. > > She was a pretty level headed and down to earth lady. ...in spite of the whole COBOL thing. 8-| -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 12 10:27:27 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <15382.48224.734355.233306@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > Look to /. > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > Speaking of whom, do you know where I could obtain a video tape of the talks she used to give? I'm especially interested in the one where she related the anecdote about her needing a wire a nanosecond (pico?) long. g. From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 12 13:08:26 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > Look to /. > > > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > > > > Speaking of whom, do you know where I could obtain a video tape of the > talks she used to give? I'm especially interested in the one where she > related the anecdote about her needing a wire a nanosecond (pico?) long. > > g. > She used to pass them out in her presentations, Gene. They were approximately 12" long. - don From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 12 15:00:52 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > > Look to /. > > > > > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > > > > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > > > > > > > Speaking of whom, do you know where I could obtain a video tape of the > > talks she used to give? I'm especially interested in the one where she > > related the anecdote about her needing a wire a nanosecond (pico?) long. > > > > g. > > > > She used to pass them out in her presentations, Gene. They were > approximately 12" long. > - don If memory serves, it was 11", but that's beside the point. :) I'm after a tape of her presentation. :) g. From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Dec 12 13:45:14 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011212114422.034c0ca0@mail.zipcon.net> 12 inch copper wire IIRC for MS Packet of cracked pepper for NS packet of salt for FemtopSecond IIRC.... At 11:08 AM 12/12/01 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > > Look to /. > > > > > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > > > > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > > > > > > > Speaking of whom, do you know where I could obtain a video tape of the > > talks she used to give? I'm especially interested in the one where she > > related the anecdote about her needing a wire a nanosecond (pico?) long. > > > > g. > > > >She used to pass them out in her presentations, Gene. They were >approximately 12" long. > - don From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 13:47:30 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:50 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Re: RIP: Betty Holberton (Geoff Reed) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011212114422.034c0ca0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <15383.46162.913914.372544@phaduka.neurotica.com> 12 inches for a thousandth of a second sounds a little off...though I'm too lazy to do the math... -Dave On December 12, Geoff Reed wrote: > 12 inch copper wire IIRC for MS > > Packet of cracked pepper for NS > > packet of salt for FemtopSecond > > IIRC.... > > At 11:08 AM 12/12/01 -0800, you wrote: > > > >On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > > > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > > > Look to /. > > > > > > > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > > > > > > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. > > > > > > > > > > Speaking of whom, do you know where I could obtain a video tape of the > > > talks she used to give? I'm especially interested in the one where she > > > related the anecdote about her needing a wire a nanosecond (pico?) long. > > > > > > g. > > > > > > >She used to pass them out in her presentations, Gene. They were > >approximately 12" long. > > - don > > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Dec 12 15:19:40 2001 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <15383.46162.913914.372544@phaduka.neurotica.com> from Dave McGuire at "Dec 12, 2001 02:47:30 pm" Message-ID: <200112122119.NAA09552@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > 12 inches for a thousandth of a second sounds a little off...though > I'm too lazy to do the math... Right. The speed of light is 30 cm/ns. Eric From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 16:09:40 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <200112122119.NAA09552@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > 12 inches for a thousandth of a second sounds a little off...though > > I'm too lazy to do the math... > > Right. The speed of light is 30 cm/ns. Or 1.79 X 10^12 furlongs per fortnight. 8-) Peace... Sridhar From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 15:57:53 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: nanoseconds and Grace Hopper (was Re: RIP: Betty Holberton) In-Reply-To: <15383.46162.913914.372544@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011212215753.11349.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > > 12 inches for a thousandth of a second sounds a little off...though > I'm too lazy to do the math... It is... by about 10E03... light goes about 30cm in 1 ns, or about 12", depending on medium (faster as photons in a vacuum than electrons down an insulated wire). Somebody wrote: > > 12 inch copper wire IIRC for MS > > > > [R. Adm Grace Hopper]... needing a wire a nanosecond (pico?) > > > > long. > > > > > >She used to pass them out in her presentations, Gene. They were > > >approximately 12" long. > > > - don I was supposed to get an official DECUS nanosecond of Etherhose signed (stamped) by her for making a presentation at a symposium but they never sent me one. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Dec 12 11:41:13 2001 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <15382.48224.734355.233306@phaduka.neurotica.com> from Dave McGuire at "Dec 11, 2001 09:09:36 pm" Message-ID: <200112121741.JAA05362@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > On December 11, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > Look to /. > > > > This is one whom coined the bug and debugging I think. :-) > > If you're talking about the terms, that was Rr. Adm. Grace Hopper. Not to disparage the Admiral, but I'm fairly sure the term "bug" referring to problems with a mechanism was in general use well before electronic computers existed. Eric From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 11:53:47 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Re: RIP: Betty Holberton (Eric J. Korpela) References: <15382.48224.734355.233306@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200112121741.JAA05362@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <15383.39339.714259.309024@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > Not to disparage the Admiral, but I'm fairly sure the term "bug" referring > to problems with a mechanism was in general use well before electronic > computers existed. Most literature that I've seen gives Hopper that distinction...however John Lawson mentioned a book that seems to prove otherwise. Scans of that would be very cool to have. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Dec 12 14:03:24 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton Message-ID: If the speed of an electron in a wire is equal to the speed of light (IIRC, it's slower than light), then an electron will travel about 11.80 inches in one nanosecond, which is the point Hooper was trying to illustrate. -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Reed [mailto:geoffr@zipcon.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:45 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: RIP: Betty Holberton 12 inch copper wire IIRC for MS From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Dec 12 15:26:53 2001 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at "Dec 12, 2001 01:03:24 pm" Message-ID: <200112122126.NAA09713@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > If the speed of an electron in a wire is equal to the speed of light (IIRC, > it's slower than light), then an electron will travel about 11.80 inches in > one nanosecond, which is the point Hooper was trying to illustrate. It's the electric field that propogates, moving electrons are a side effect. The average speed free electrons in wire is such that they essentially never get from one end to the other. Eric From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 16:02:29 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Feldman, Robert wrote: > If the speed of an electron in a wire is equal to the speed of light (IIRC, > it's slower than light), then an electron will travel about 11.80 inches in > one nanosecond, which is the point Hooper was trying to illustrate. I was always of the impression that the electrons themselves move slower, but the propogation of waves in the magnetic field of a stream of moving electrons was 2/3 the speed of light (roughly)? Peace... Sridhar From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Dec 12 17:09:38 2001 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: from Boatman on the River of Suck at "Dec 12, 2001 05:02:29 pm" Message-ID: <200112122309.PAA11686@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > I was always of the impression that the electrons themselves move slower, > but the propogation of waves in the magnetic field of a stream of moving > electrons was 2/3 the speed of light (roughly)? The actual propogation velocity depends upon the geometry of the situation. In some situations (like in coaxial cable, a well analyzed PC board, a well modeled chip) the propogation velocity can be well determined. In a random wire among a tangle of others you take your chances. 1/3-2/3c is usual. Lower and higher velocities are possible. Electrons are very much (billions of times) slower. Calculating the average speed of an electron is easy and is left as an excercise for the reader, as is explaining why, for a given current, electrons in a resistor generally travel faster than electrons in a wire. Eric From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Wed Dec 12 17:12:25 2001 From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Nanoseconds per foot (RE: RIP: Betty Holberton) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200112122312.MAA17127@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> Boatman on the River of Suck : > I was always of the impression that the electrons themselves move slower, > but the propogation of waves in the magnetic field of a stream of moving > electrons was 2/3 the speed of light (roughly)? It depends on the geometry of the conductors involved; the more inductance and capacitance, the slower the signal travels. I seem to remember hearing a figure of about 1/3 c for typical coax or twisted pair arrangements. Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+ University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a | Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc. | greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 14:20:49 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B08@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > My recollection from one of her presentations some years ago was that > > she claimed to have found the first computer bug in the Eniac - a moth > > IIRC - and debugged it by removing said moth. > > > > She was a pretty level headed and down to earth lady. > > ...in spite of the whole COBOL thing. 8-| Crass Obnoxious Bullsh*t- Oriented Language -dq From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 12 16:38:39 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: <15383.46162.913914.372544@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011212114422.034c0ca0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011212143533.02465ae0@mcmanis.com> > 12 inches for a thousandth of a second sounds a little off...though >I'm too lazy to do the math... 12" for one nanosecond. Not a quickie! You know, 300,000,000 m/sec and one billionth is .3 meters. Sorry about the Dr. Pepper in the keyboard. --Chuck From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 16:55:48 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B0C@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > > If the speed of an electron in a wire is equal to the speed of light (IIRC, > > it's slower than light), then an electron will travel about 11.80 inches in > > one nanosecond, which is the point Hooper was trying to illustrate. > > It's the electric field that propogates, moving electrons are a side effect. > The average speed free electrons in wire is such that they essentially never > get from one end to the other. Wait a doggone minute, I know that's not right, I distinctly recall seeing a film in school of a wire as a pipe and ball- bearings as electrons... they go in one end, they come out the other... ...and they're blue. From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Dec 12 20:29:00 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:53:47 -0500 . <15383.39339.714259.309024@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: In message <15383.39339.714259.309024@phaduka.neurotica.com>, Dave McGuire writ es: >On December 12, Eric J. Korpela wrote: >> Not to disparage the Admiral, but I'm fairly sure the term "bug" referring >> to problems with a mechanism was in general use well before electronic >> computers existed. > > Most literature that I've seen gives Hopper that distinction...however >John Lawson mentioned a book that seems to prove otherwise. Scans of >that would be very cool to have. The basis of the attribution comes from a incedent where she was tracing a fault in the Harvard Mark I and found a moth in the contacts of a relay. She taped the moth into her lab notebook, and this moth is often cited as the first "bug" in a computer. However, as has been pointed out, the term was in use before that and I'd be surprised if she was unaware of it. It's always appeared to me that a number of writers have taken the event as a defining one rather than a fun geeky annicdote where she was having a good giggle at the fact that this bug was a real bug. And of course, a story like that gets passed on from writer to writer and the first interpretation achieves the status of fact. Brian L. Stuart From jss at subatomix.com Wed Dec 12 00:43:22 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20011212024519.ECCA27710.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20011212000008.X72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Blatent easy way out is emulate that 11/70 on athlon XP 1900+. :-) > Smack me if you dare. :-) That would probably be his cheapest way to attain the speed he wants. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 01:39:21 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20011212000008.X72475-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > Blatent easy way out is emulate that 11/70 on athlon XP 1900+. :-) > > Smack me if you dare. :-) > > That would probably be his cheapest way to attain the speed he wants. > > And exactly how would you speak to UNIBUS? Peace... SRidhar From jss at subatomix.com Wed Dec 12 11:06:08 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011212105402.G73604-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > Blatent easy way out is emulate that 11/70 on athlon XP 1900+. :-) > > > Smack me if you dare. :-) > > > > That would probably be his cheapest way to attain the speed he wants. > > > > > > And exactly how would you speak to UNIBUS? Well, the processor would be attached to support hardware, and the support hardware would be attached to a UNIBUS connector. There's nothing that says this thing has to be PC-compatible. Are you wanting this to go in big, hex-width cards like old UNIBUS cards, or will you be defining a new form factor, connector (compact UNIBUS?), backplane, and card mounting system for your new UNIBUS (UNewBUS?)? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 13:11:48 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20011212105402.G73604-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > > > Blatent easy way out is emulate that 11/70 on athlon XP 1900+. :-) > > > > Smack me if you dare. :-) > > > > > > That would probably be his cheapest way to attain the speed he wants. > > > > > > > > > > And exactly how would you speak to UNIBUS? > > Well, the processor would be attached to support hardware, and the support > hardware would be attached to a UNIBUS connector. There's nothing that > says this thing has to be PC-compatible. Yes, but would it be possible to have a similar relationship between processor speed and I/O bandwidth as in the old systems? > Are you wanting this to go in big, hex-width cards like old UNIBUS cards, > or will you be defining a new form factor, connector (compact UNIBUS?), > backplane, and card mounting system for your new UNIBUS (UNewBUS?)? Old style. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 13:22:13 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Re: Prints for an 11/70 (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <20011212105402.G73604-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <15383.44645.174002.831019@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > Are you wanting this to go in big, hex-width cards like old UNIBUS cards, > > or will you be defining a new form factor, connector (compact UNIBUS?), > > backplane, and card mounting system for your new UNIBUS (UNewBUS?)? > > Old style. Cool. Cards that you can actually FIT SOME COMPONENTS ON. What a concept. That's the only thing I don't like about sbus. You can fill up an sbus card with three good-sized chips. Ridiculous. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Dec 12 13:43:27 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <15383.44645.174002.831019@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 02:22:13PM -0500 References: <20011212105402.G73604-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> <15383.44645.174002.831019@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011212134326.F7739318@uiuc.edu> Dave McGuire said: > > That's the only thing I don't like about sbus. You can fill up an > sbus card with three good-sized chips. Ridiculous. that, and the connectors are evil... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/b34661ed/attachment.bin From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Dec 12 16:35:49 2001 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Pat Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > Blatent easy way out is emulate that 11/70 on athlon XP 1900+. :-) > > > Smack me if you dare. :-) > > > > That would probably be his cheapest way to attain the speed he wants. > > > > > > And exactly how would you speak to UNIBUS? > > Peace... SRidhar > How would you talk to unibus without the 300 or more wait states that would make the 1G processor speed useless anyways? Unless you can hook real IO devices up to the processor that are of *reasonable* speed, all you have is a 'souped up adding machine' (to quote _Colossus:_ _The_Forbin_Project) -- Pat From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Dec 12 16:20:11 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: Message-ID: <3C17D81B.50A45268@jetnet.ab.ca> Pat Finnegan wrote: > How would you talk to unibus without the 300 or more wait states that > would make the 1G processor speed useless anyways? Unless you can hook > real IO devices up to the processor that are of *reasonable* speed, all > you have is a 'souped up adding machine' (to quote _Colossus:_ > _The_Forbin_Project) Yet most I/O of that era was still TTL, something you can stick in the same FPGA as the processer. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 17:21:12 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Pat Finnegan wrote: > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > > > Blatent easy way out is emulate that 11/70 on athlon XP 1900+. :-) > > > > Smack me if you dare. :-) > > > > > > That would probably be his cheapest way to attain the speed he wants. > > > > > > > > > > And exactly how would you speak to UNIBUS? > > > > Peace... SRidhar > > > > How would you talk to unibus without the 300 or more wait states that > would make the 1G processor speed useless anyways? Unless you can hook > real IO devices up to the processor that are of *reasonable* speed, all > you have is a 'souped up adding machine' (to quote _Colossus:_ > _The_Forbin_Project) What I was planning on doing is doing a custom set of bridge sets to talk to multiple UNIBUSses (way multiple) simultaneously by way of a channelized I/O system transparent to the software. (We are talking multiple years of work). Peace... Sridhar From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Wed Dec 12 17:04:29 2001 From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200112122304.MAA17124@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> Boatman on the River of Suck : > And exactly how would you speak to UNIBUS? At that speed, very slowly with pauses betweeen the words. :-) Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+ University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a | Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc. | greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+ From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Dec 12 02:47:53 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662B2@exc-reo1> > The real problem is the patents / intellectual property of DEC here. Surely all of these will have expired for the PDP-11/70, and quite possibly for the entire PDP-11 family. In fact, the early VAX patents must have expired too - I recall that MSCP is gone (or at least, going). Antonio From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 06:21:07 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > Would 200MHz be fast enough ? A lot of the Xilinx fpga's offer 5ns pin to pin > > > > In a word, no. 8-) > > Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? I assume these Mentec PDP-11s aren' available at PC prices, given they likely aren't produced in PC quantities... Any info on the web? -dq From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Wed Dec 12 07:05:56 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3C175634.B0F6DF34@verizon.net> http://www.mentec.com Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > On December 11, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > > Would 200MHz be fast enough ? A lot of the Xilinx fpga's offer 5ns pin > to pin > > > > > > In a word, no. 8-) > > > > Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? > > I assume these Mentec PDP-11s aren' available at PC prices, > given they likely aren't produced in PC quantities... > > Any info on the web? > > -dq From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 12:07:14 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: RE: Prints for an 11/70 (Douglas Quebbeman) References: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF3@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15383.40146.284256.209256@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > I assume these Mentec PDP-11s aren' available at PC prices, > given they likely aren't produced in PC quantities... Of course not. But then, they're also not PCs, and they're not targeted at the desktop game-playing market. > Any info on the web? http://www.mentec.com. Nice stuff. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Dec 12 08:05:13 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20011212150513.C71188@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 10:33:02PM -0600, Richard W. Schauer wrote: [ECL] > Then you get the challenge of cooling it... Freon immersion cooling like the CRAY 2 has? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 13:07:31 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20011212150513.C71188@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > Then you get the challenge of cooling it... > Freon immersion cooling like the CRAY 2 has? Or sealed-membrane peltier cooling. Peace... Sridhar From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Dec 12 08:25:19 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: References: <15382.48458.155075.709137@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011212152519.D71188@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 09:48:22PM -0500, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? > I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. Ahhh, there are two possibilities: 1. Sridhar is making a joke. 2. Sridhar has no clue about digital logic circuit design. * Get one of those fancy FPGAs and be satisfied with 200MHz. It will be faster than everything else you can get for less than $$$$$$$. :-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ p.s. * I don't have much clue about that, but enough to say that 1GHz is far beyond a home brewn design with todays tools. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Dec 12 10:28:20 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: <15382.48458.155075.709137@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20011212152519.D71188@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <3C1785A3.961F790F@jetnet.ab.ca> Jochen Kunz wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 09:48:22PM -0500, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > Get one of those fancy FPGAs and be satisfied with 200MHz. FPGA's suck at random logic, my cpu speed has dropped from 20 Mhz to 15 Mhz when I added my control section - random logic -. > p.s. * I don't have much clue about that, but enough to say that 1GHz > is far beyond a home brewn design with todays tools. I say it is NOT, because at those speeds you still have to place it by hand anyway. Here is a good link to prove that point. http://www.colorforth.com/ Mind you some the earlier chips were prone to meltdown - they ran too fast. What is the problem is you have Mega-transitors in the modern machines - nothing like a PDP-n that had a nice simple logic and control design. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 13:08:26 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <20011212152519.D71188@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? > > I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. > Ahhh, there are two possibilities: > 1. Sridhar is making a joke. > 2. Sridhar has no clue about digital logic circuit design. * > Get one of those fancy FPGAs and be satisfied with 200MHz. > It will be faster than everything else you can get for less than $$$$$$$. :-) Neither, actually. I was thinking somewhere in the $250,000 range. Peace... Sridhar From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 12 14:03:31 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: References: <20011212152519.D71188@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011212120158.00ab4080@mcmanis.com> I didn't see the original. Philip Freidin (www.fliptronics.com) is a friend of mine who is doing a 3.2Ghz FPGA. Yes, it takes a level of skill most of us don't posses but I've seen it protos running on his work bench. Doing 1Ghz for him would probably be rather straight forward. --Chuck At 11:08 AM 12/12/01, you wrote: >On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > > > Jeeeeezus Sridhar, how fast did you have in mind? > > > I was thinking somewhere in the range of a gigahertz. > > Ahhh, there are two possibilities: > > 1. Sridhar is making a joke. > > 2. Sridhar has no clue about digital logic circuit design. * > > Get one of those fancy FPGAs and be satisfied with 200MHz. > > It will be faster than everything else you can get for less than > $$$$$$$. :-) > >Neither, actually. I was thinking somewhere in the $250,000 range. > >Peace... Sridhar From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Dec 12 15:26:58 2001 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: <20011212152519.D71188@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20011212120158.00ab4080@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <3C17CBA2.6669EC3A@jetnet.ab.ca> Chuck McManis wrote: > > I didn't see the original. > > Philip Freidin (www.fliptronics.com) is a friend of mine who is doing a > 3.2Ghz FPGA. Yes, it takes a level of skill most of us don't posses but > I've seen it protos running on his work bench. Doing 1Ghz for him would > probably be rather straight forward. I find that hard to believe.Are you sure you don't have decimal point off. He may be good but he an't Scotty - the miracle worker. FPGA's are 1/10 the speed just do to routing and buffering over gates of the same technology. -- Ben Franchuk --- Pre-historic Cpu's -- www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 12 16:44:31 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3C17CBA2.6669EC3A@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <20011212152519.D71188@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20011212120158.00ab4080@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011212144102.0246b340@mcmanis.com> At 01:26 PM 12/12/01, Ben wrote: >Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > I didn't see the original. > > > > Philip Freidin (www.fliptronics.com) is a friend of mine who is doing a > > 3.2Ghz FPGA. Yes, it takes a level of skill most of us don't posses but > > I've seen it protos running on his work bench. Doing 1Ghz for him would > > probably be rather straight forward. > >I find that hard to believe.Are you sure you don't have decimal point >off. He may be good but he an't Scotty - the miracle worker. FPGA's are 1/10 >the speed just do to routing and buffering over gates of the same >technology. Well its real, I've seen it work with my very own eyes. He's a bit coy about the application (he's a consultant after all) but lots of things like 10G Ethernet run internally at that clock rate. --Chuck From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Dec 12 14:23:10 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > Dave McGuire said: > > That's the only thing I don't like about sbus. You can fill up an > > sbus card with three good-sized chips. Ridiculous. > that, and the connectors are evil... I've had no problem with them -- they stick a little sometimes, but that's not too much trouble. I'd rather that than have them fall out. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Dec 12 16:15:42 2001 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>; from csmith@amdocs.com on Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 02:23:10PM -0600 References: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20011212161542.B7921903@uiuc.edu> Christopher Smith said: > > > that, and the connectors are evil... > > I've had no problem with them -- they stick a little sometimes, but that's > not too much trouble. I'd rather that than have them fall out. :) In particular, I've had some stubborn cards (the worst was a cisco dual-width FDDI board) leap out and stab me with those little stubby pins that protrude from the top of the connector's solder points...the problem is that applying enough force to dislodge the damn card also jammed it up into the sides of my thumbs. it hurts, especially when it's the third time that's happened in 5 minutes... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/068de125/attachment.bin From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Dec 12 17:22:05 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DFA0@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Wright [mailto:dtwright@uiuc.edu] > Christopher Smith said: > > I've had no problem with them -- they stick a little > sometimes, but that's > > not too much trouble. I'd rather that than have them fall out. :) > In particular, I've had some stubborn cards (the worst was a > cisco dual-width > FDDI board) leap out and stab me with those little stubby > pins that protrude > from the top of the connector's solder points...the problem > is that applying > enough force to dislodge the damn card also jammed it up into > the sides of my > thumbs. it hurts, especially when it's the third time that's > happened in 5 > minutes... Ahh, but without the blood-sacrifice, the systems wouldn't run nearly as well ;) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Dec 12 01:22:38 2001 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? References: <003a01c182cd$6a976da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3C1705BE.9020605@cnonline.net> Richard Erlacher wrote: > Why would anyone want to do such a thing? You just it hook up with a simple RCA > cable to a TV set with a VIDEO input, which nearly all of them have nowadays. > > Dick :^) <--- note "anti smart a** smiley" 1) tv too big to tote into den 2) Wife usually won't let computer out of den 3) Color Monitor I have (hook to VCR type ) won't show 80 col text well enough to read (well almost...) 4) Monochrome monitor shows text fine but no color 5) Now swapping monitors depending on output... bad for back. I may have to hook them both up with a rca "Y" plug... From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 12 16:55:16 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: Apple II C Plus ---> modern monitor? In-Reply-To: <3C1705BE.9020605@cnonline.net> References: <003a01c182cd$6a976da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >4) Monochrome monitor shows text fine but no color >5) Now swapping monitors depending on output... bad for back. > >I may have to hook them both up with a rca "Y" plug... I am thinking of using the video input I have on a couple of PC/mac computers and just putting the Apple II era video in a window of my main monitor. From jpdavis at gorge.net Wed Dec 12 03:15:47 2001 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: USENET from 1981 to present on google Message-ID: <3C172043.D2E2E4C9@gorge.net> Google claims to have recovered the USENET archives from 1981 to present. Makes for some really fun reading. Birth of the web, linux, all the old machines we love. Jim Davis. From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 16:04:03 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: USENET from 1981 to present on google In-Reply-To: <3C172043.D2E2E4C9@gorge.net> Message-ID: <20011212220403.70339.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Davis wrote: > Google claims to have recovered the USENET archives from 1981 to > present. > Makes for some really fun reading. Birth of the web, linux, all the old > machines we love. > Jim Davis. I've been perusing it... I can't find any of my own posting prior to the Great Renaming (net.micro.amiga, etc.) In fact, I can see in one of the traffic groups my upstream feed telling the other UUCP admins that we were off the air (and I was out of a job ;-) but I that's one of the oldest messages with my name in it. None of my _actual_ posts appears until late 1987. Guess even with 7+E08 messages, there's still gaps. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 12 16:37:26 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: USENET from 1981 to present on google In-Reply-To: <20011212220403.70339.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Dec 12, 1 02:04:03 pm" Message-ID: <200112122237.OAA09756@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I've been perusing it... I can't find any of my own posting prior to > the Great Renaming (net.micro.amiga, etc.) In fact, I can see in > one of the traffic groups my upstream feed telling the other UUCP > admins that we were off the air (and I was out of a job ;-) but I that's > one of the oldest messages with my name in it. None of my _actual_ > posts appears until late 1987. The earliest post of mine in there is from late 1994. To be fair, I wasn't around much earlier than that, but there are still gaps even after the Renaming. > Guess even with 7+E08 messages, there's still gaps. I'm not surprised, either, since there were few people really archiving this stuff back then. I'm glad to at least have some of it, anyway. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin ------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Dec 12 17:04:13 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:51 2005 Subject: USENET from 1981 to present on google In-Reply-To: <200112122237.OAA09756@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200112122237.OAA09756@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >I'm not surprised, either, since there were few people really archiving >this stuff back then. I'm glad to at least have some of it, anyway. Well it certainly could be worse....it's got to be quite a task to have an archive like that, especially one that grows so much each day. My earliest post is showing from 1995, about the time I really started gathering these machines. I did find a post that I had lost my copy of some time back, that provided some info I needed on a set of pinouts though! BTW, here's a rather optimistic post, cut and pasted direct from Google: ------------------------------------------ Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP From: blk@syteka.UUCP (Brian L. Kahn) Newsgroups: net.games.frp Subject: amiga-commodore merge Message-ID: <475@syteka.UUCP> Date: Thu, 16-Aug-84 20:45:25 EDT Article-I.D.: syteka.475 Posted: Thu Aug 16 20:45:25 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 19-Aug-84 02:54:56 EDT References: charm.434 Lines: 11 : Commodore is reportedly buying out amiga! Hoorah! Amiga is an amazing machine. 68K, 128K of RAM, video chips that make the c64 look like a VIC, sound chips, yow! Rumor puts the price at $1000. This for a machine with the power of a Macintosh with super graphics. I can't wait! B< ------------------------------------------- -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From djenner at earthlink.net Wed Dec 12 17:37:34 2001 From: djenner at earthlink.net (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: USENET from 1981 to present on google References: <20011212220403.70339.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C17EA3E.C7EB49F0@earthlink.net> I found a post of mine from 1984, asking for leads on a UUCP package to run under VMS. We found a couple, and ran UUCP for several years until we were hooked up to BITNET and ARPANET. Dave Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Jim Davis wrote: > > Google claims to have recovered the USENET archives from 1981 to > > present. > > Makes for some really fun reading. Birth of the web, linux, all the old > > machines we love. > > Jim Davis. > > I've been perusing it... I can't find any of my own posting prior to > the Great Renaming (net.micro.amiga, etc.) In fact, I can see in > one of the traffic groups my upstream feed telling the other UUCP > admins that we were off the air (and I was out of a job ;-) but I that's > one of the oldest messages with my name in it. None of my _actual_ > posts appears until late 1987. > > Guess even with 7+E08 messages, there's still gaps. > > -ethan -- David C. Jenner djenner@earthlink.net From dec.parts at verizon.net Wed Dec 12 05:17:27 2001 From: dec.parts at verizon.net (Info from LSI) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Anybody want to make some extra money? Message-ID: <3C173CC7.537@verizon.net> Hello Gang, Here's a user that needs parts and support. I'll provide the parts, if they find any of what I have available to be acceptable. You provide the support. It is not intended to be free. You may quote whatever price you deem adequate to get them back in business. All they can do is say no if they don't like it. Of the SCSI Controllers that I had, all Dilogs have been sold ( one to Sweden and two to Louisiana ). What I have left is two Emulex UC07 and an Aviv QSA, plus any other parts at ... http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2mj6m/web/home.htm If anybody wants to take this on, email me ASAP. Bennett re: Request for purchasing DILOG SCSI controller Dear Sir, We have VAXstation 3200 that works with operation system VAX VMS V5.3. The system has Tape Driver TK50, which gives possibility of installation of the different programs. We have problems with Q-bus SDI disk controller "DILOG 57154D" that is inserted in VAX3200. This controller is connected with two devices: WREN6 SCSI HDD(600Mb) and LD1200 Optical disk drive. Please inform us if you have for replacement up mentioned SCSI Host Adapter or it's analog, adequate for our situation or if you can repair our adapter. Please quote the prices and give us terms for your service. We ask also to give us detailed instructions for installation, and if any specialized software is needed, TK50 compatible cassette with this program. Looking forward for your reply, Sincerely, From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Dec 12 06:16:15 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Dimension 4 / WinXP In-Reply-To: <200112120246.VAA24653@mail.microserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011212070526.028fb200@mail.wincom.net> At 09:50 PM 12/11/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Charles, read your post about the Dimension 4 and Windows XP "error binding >socket..." > >Did you ever find a fix? > > >Thanks, > >Bob >E-mail address - petruska@microserve.net I got an e-mail from Rob Chambers of thinkman,com. He says that Windows XP and D4 Time both use port 123 udp for SNTP. He suggested disabling Windows Time Service, but I took the easy way out and downloaded the NIST time program from: http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/its.htm and it is working OK with XP. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor, Ontario, Canada, N8Y3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 12 06:24:26 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: HP HDSP-2490 Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225AF4@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 12, Ken Seefried wrote: > > Perhaps slightly off-topic (other than being a resonably old part), but > > would anyone around here have a datasheet (or, at least, a pin-out) for an > > HP HDSP-2490? This is an odd, 4-digit, 5x7 led matrix display. It's in a > > 28-pin dip, and looks to have some intellegence built in. > > > > The answer from HP (nee Agilent) is "long since obsolete, we know nothing". > > Yeah, after all, NOBODY uses displays anymore. > > GOD I hate suits. Hopefully when the board fires Carly as they surely will when the merger doesn't happen, they'll get someone in there who will fire the suits and rehire the people they let go (engineers, customer service, technicians, etc). -dq From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 12 13:35:09 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: HP HDSP-2490 In-Reply-To: <15382.50282.194218.155969@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <200112120148.fBC1mIN28715@ns2.ezwind.net> <20011212023534.7692.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011212143509.007b6850@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:43 PM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote: >On December 12, Ken Seefried wrote: >> Perhaps slightly off-topic (other than being a resonably old part), but >> would anyone around here have a datasheet (or, at least, a pin-out) for an >> HP HDSP-2490? This is an odd, 4-digit, 5x7 led matrix display. It's in a >> 28-pin dip, and looks to have some intellegence built in. >> That sounds very similar to the one used in the HP 9825 and similar calculators. I have (had?) some HP Electro-Optics catalogs that had data sheets for such devices. I'll try to find one and look it up. Joe From west at tseinc.com Wed Dec 12 07:50:26 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: another test - please ignore Message-ID: <00f301c18313$f4b674e0$0101a8c0@jay> Just another test, checking out some list stuff. Send to /dev/null Jay West From classiccmp at knm.yi.org Wed Dec 12 08:11:36 2001 From: classiccmp at knm.yi.org (Matt London) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Model 33 Teletypes acquired In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, > > the plastic upper case (the gray case, not > > the white/yellow cover over the carriage) is broken into several > > pieces. So does anybody have recommendations as to glue or other > > solutions? Is someone sitting on a big stock of spare upper shells? > > Use a glue specially for ABS plastic. Most so-called plastic and model > glues are for polystyrene and won't bond ABS since they are not strong > enough. Let me know what you find, since I'm also looking for glue to use > on tons of broken ABS cases. I've been told that there is a glue made for > an ABS type of drain pipe. PVC glue won't work either, it tends to damage > ABS plastics. I tend to use "Araldite" (hrm, spelling looks wrong, could be arildite or some other combination that sounds like the above). It's an epoxy, and seems to hold just about anything. Latest thing I fixed with it was one of the securing mounts for the front cover of a rackmount BA23 - the velcrow bits. The metal it was attached to had come detatched from the rest of the cover, so I araldited a small piece of wood in the gap - can't see it's been done unless you look closly, and it goes the job great :&) I also used to to repair the broken plastic hinge on my Compaq LTE 5100, but that's another story :&) -- Matt --- Web Page: http://knm.yi.org/ http://pkl.net/~matt/ PGP Key fingerprint = 00BF 19FE D5F5 8EAD 2FD5 D102 260E 8BA7 EEE4 8D7F PGP Key http://knm.yi.org/matt-pgp.html From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Dec 12 08:45:57 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Rescue list? In-Reply-To: <20011211235725.C68192@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <15380.64853.294164.407701@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20011210235400.U69970-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> <20011211024029.D25133@mrbill.net> <20011211235725.C68192@krumm.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20011212084557.F25133@mrbill.net> On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 11:57:25PM +0100, Jochen Kunz wrote: > Whet "geeks" list??? Geeks list: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks Rescue list: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Dec 12 09:29:11 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: I've discovered a new pleasure. Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673BB@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! > From: David Woyciesjes ! > ! > Speaking of drinking, Tuesdays (tonight!) are when my APA Pool Team ! > plays. We're in first, with only two more matches to go! Then playoffs ! > for ! > the States, then it's off to Vegas after States! Woo-hoo, hopefully! ! ! Hope you make it to Vegas! BTW what level are you? I shot for a few years ! but never made it beyond a 4. No problem making the shots but post-shot ! cue ball positioning hung me up. I'm only a skill level 3, after 5 years... :) Was a 4 for a short time last year. I can't consistently make shots. Sometimes I make the easy shots and mess up the hard ones; other times I make the hard ones and screw up the simple shots! Well we won 4 out of 5 matches last night. Pretty much buttons up our winning high-points for the session. That's about $200 or so for the team. Another $300 (I think) after we win the two play-off weeks. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Dec 12 09:54:33 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: NEW BOUNTY ADDED! (Software and manual bounties $$$) References: Message-ID: <011301c18325$5e5f0a40$63721fd1@default> Did you ever locate a copy of Tab Works? I believe I may have a couple of copies down in Houston and will be on the lookout for them after I get settled in over the next couple months. Let me know if you still need it or not? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Cc: "Bay Area Computer Collector List" Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 1:56 PM Subject: NEW BOUNTY ADDED! (Software and manual bounties $$$) > > I'm adding the following bounty to my list below: > > Xsoft TabWorks (any version though 1.0 is preferred) ($50) > > Xsoft is/was a division of Xerox. TabWorks was a tab pallet windows > interface that ran on Windows 3.0. It was sold to Compaq and then to > Citadel. > > --- > > I am putting up the following bounties for these software and manuals: > > Adobe After Effects 3.x ($30) > Macromedia Sound Edit 16 1.0 ($30) > Macromedia Final Cut ($30) > Macromedia Freehand 5.0 ($30) > GO PenPoint manual (copyright 1992) ($15) > > Also: > > MacWeek August 7, 1995 ($5) > > I need original copies of each, disks and manuals. If you've got them, or > can find them, the bounty amount is yours (upon receipt and verification, > shipping to be paid by me). > > Please reply directly to me: . > > Thanks! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Dec 12 12:02:49 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Cats around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C1@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@Mac.com] ! ! ! >Ok, I give up -- how do you train a cat? :) ! ! Water spray bottle works wonders. 3 spritz later and one of ! my cats has ! stopped popping the hampster cage open and carrying the ! hampster around ! the house. ! ! Some people say tape works well to keep them off things ! (sticky side up), ! but both my cats seem to rather like it, and I find they stand on it ! padding at the tape purring happily. They lick the adhesive too? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Dec 12 12:52:28 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Cats around computers In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C1@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: Being in the presence of five cats who begrudgingly allow us to cohabitate with them, I can say with great authority that cat fur and dander has the ability to accumulate in great quantities in and on virtually any surface at an alarming rate (and that's with cats who more or less define the term "inert"; more active ones tend to boil off residue at an even higher rate). We figure the accumulation rte is about enough to build a new cat from cast-off parts about once a week. All that said, I've yet to have any failures that I can attribute to fur or dander, save for the occasional fan that bitches about wanting to be cleaned. However, every disk drive that I've got has sealed HDAs, so YMMV, big-time. Surprisingly, I've not had issues with keyboards (save for the time that Kamali, the 18+ pound Maine Coon, snapped a keycap off while traversing a Sun type-5 keyboard) or monitors (despite the fact that Tempest finds 21" Sun monitors to be The Most Perfect Place to Bask). Cat _piss_, on the other hand, is about the most destructive material to metal and electronics I've ever encountered. As for training -- the spray bottle technique works only with weak-minded cats; the more willful ones simply narrow their eyes and continue misbehaving while looking at you. Sticky tape is only modestly effective, with the effect rapidly attenuating as the tape loads up with cat fur. Oh, we have a Canine Unit as well. She flops over on her back and shows her belly anytime a cat walks near. While cats are allowed near the machines, the dog isn't, as she has a distinct bull-in-china-shop quality about her... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From mythtech at Mac.com Wed Dec 12 12:44:36 2001 From: mythtech at Mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Cats around computers Message-ID: >>! Some people say tape works well to keep them off things >>! (sticky side up), >>! but both my cats seem to rather like it, and I find they stand on it >>! padding at the tape purring happily. > >They lick the adhesive too? Not that I have ever seen, they just step and press their paws against it over and over... kind of like when they are pressing down a pillow to sit, or in the case of one of mine, when he is hungry, he jumps on my lap, and presses his paws into my sternum over and over until I am annoyed (or in enough pain as he does it pretty hard), to get up and feed him. -c From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Dec 12 13:22:40 2001 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Cats around computers Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! >>! Some people say tape works well to keep them off things ! >>! (sticky side up), but both my cats seem to rather like ! >>! it, and I find they stand on it ! >>! padding at the tape purring happily. ! > ! >They lick the adhesive too? ! ! Not that I have ever seen, they just step and press their ! paws against it ! over and over... kind of like when they are pressing down a pillow to ! sit, or in the case of one of mine, when he is hungry, he jumps on my ! lap, and presses his paws into my sternum over and over until I am ! annoyed (or in enough pain as he does it pretty hard), to get ! up and feed ! him. Well, my 3 1/2 year old cat, Isabelle, like to like tape and pictures. Never figured that one out yet... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 From vcf at vintage.org Wed Dec 12 13:15:24 2001 From: vcf at vintage.org (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Internal Data Specifications for HP71 needed Message-ID: This person needs the Internal Data Specifications for the HP71. He's writing a multitasking OS for the HP71. Can you help him? Reply-to: stephane.cocquereaumont-coframi@transport.alstom.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:22:11 +0100 From: stephane.cocquereaumont-coframi@transport.alstom.com To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: [iso-8859-1] Réf. : Re: HP71 IDS Vintage Computer Festival le 22/11/2001 22:13:20 Pour : stephane.cocquereaumont-coframi@transport.alstom.com cc : Objet : Re: HP71 IDS On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 stephane.cocquereaumont-coframi@transport.alstom.com wrote: > Do you have any of the marvellous HP71 IDS in your archive ? > > It can be a great help for me. >I do indeed have an HP71 but I'm not familiar with the IDS. What is that >exactly? IDS is three volumes of Internal Design Specifications. All about the hardware and software, including the OS listing. >What would you be needing this for? The HP71 processor is used on other calcs, like the HP48, and I'am developing a multitasking OS for this calc. I think there was some interesting software in the HP71, the Fort/Assembler pack for example. This can be a great help. Thanks for your reply. -- Stephane Cocquereaumont -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From classiccmp at dobyns.com Wed Dec 12 14:30:23 2001 From: classiccmp at dobyns.com (Barry A. Dobyns) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: HPUX 8 and HPUX 9 needed References: Message-ID: <00e201c1834b$d6ccb3d0$a103fea9@Moltres> fellow packrats, as part of a project i'm working on, I need copies of HPUX 8 and HPUX 9 CD-ROMs for the HP/9000 model 712 or HP/9000 model 720 (probably the same either way). i'm willing to (a) pay roundtrip shipping to borrow original media, (b) or pay reasonable copying and shipping costs for cdr copies of media, (c) or buy the original media outright. (d) or Thanks, -barry --- Barry Dobyns, barry@dobyns.com, http://www.dobyns.com/barry/collect From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 12 15:34:52 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Internal Data Specifications for HP71 needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011212163452.007c7ac0@mailhost.intellistar.net> I used to have a set but I got rid of them along with everything else. Check with Dave Hicks' HP Calulator Museum webpage. He's selling a set of CDs with many of the HP manuals and documents stored on them. I think the HP-71 IDSs are in there too. Joe At 11:15 AM 12/12/01 -0800, you wrote: > >This person needs the Internal Data Specifications for the HP71. He's >writing a multitasking OS for the HP71. Can you help him? > >Reply-to: stephane.cocquereaumont-coframi@transport.alstom.com > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:22:11 +0100 >From: stephane.cocquereaumont-coframi@transport.alstom.com >To: Vintage Computer Festival >Subject: [iso-8859-1] R?f. : Re: HP71 IDS > >Vintage Computer Festival le 22/11/2001 22:13:20 > >Pour : stephane.cocquereaumont-coframi@transport.alstom.com >cc : > >Objet : Re: HP71 IDS > > >On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 stephane.cocquereaumont-coframi@transport.alstom.com >wrote: > >> Do you have any of the marvellous HP71 IDS in your archive ? >> >> It can be a great help for me. > >>I do indeed have an HP71 but I'm not familiar with the IDS. What is that >>exactly? > >IDS is three volumes of Internal Design Specifications. > >All about the hardware and software, including the OS listing. > >>What would you be needing this for? > >The HP71 processor is used on other calcs, like the HP48, and I'am >developing a multitasking OS for this calc. > >I think there was some interesting software in the HP71, the Fort/Assembler >pack for example. > >This can be a great help. > >Thanks for your reply. >-- >Stephane Cocquereaumont > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 12 16:34:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: Internal Data Specifications for HP71 needed In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 12, 1 11:15:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/5fc852ad/attachment.ksh From vance at ikickass.org Wed Dec 12 14:24:14 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: What is the difference? Message-ID: What is the difference between MultiNet and TCPWare on the VAX? Peace... Sridhar From dittman at dittman.net Wed Dec 12 14:47:13 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: What is the difference? In-Reply-To: from "Boatman on the River of Suck" at Dec 12, 2001 03:24:14 PM Message-ID: <200112122047.fBCKlDL28533@narnia.int.dittman.net> > What is the difference between MultiNet and TCPWare on the VAX? They are both sold by Process, but they are completely different in configuration. I prefer MultiNet. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 12 14:54:27 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: What is the difference? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >What is the difference between MultiNet and TCPWare on the VAX? > >Peace... Sridhar I believe it's very little other than the style of interfaces for administering it. I'd recommend taking a look at the Process website for indepth information. ISTR, one is more 'VMS' style and one is more 'UNIX' style. However, I'm not fit to judge since I've only used one, and then only *very* briefly. I'm currently using Compaq TCPIP V5.1, and am very happy with it, I'd be even happier if I could find time to do some tweaking of my configuration! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From curt at atari-history.com Wed Dec 12 16:31:06 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:52 2005 Subject: What is the difference? References: Message-ID: <017501c1835c$b3c3fb80$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Wasn't Multinet done by TRW or some 3rd company as part of their all around multi-protocol networking package? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boatman on the River of Suck" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:24 PM Subject: What is the difference? > > What is the difference between MultiNet and TCPWare on the VAX? > > Peace... Sridhar > From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 16:42:00 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: What is the difference? In-Reply-To: Re: What is the difference? (Curt Vendel) References: <017501c1835c$b3c3fb80$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <15383.56632.644022.957102@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Curt Vendel wrote: > Wasn't Multinet done by TRW or some 3rd company as part of their all around > multi-protocol networking package? TGV. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From dittman at dittman.net Wed Dec 12 17:14:28 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: What is the difference? In-Reply-To: <017501c1835c$b3c3fb80$0a00a8c0@cvendel> from "Curt Vendel" at Dec 12, 2001 05:31:06 PM Message-ID: <200112122314.fBCNES029094@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Wasn't Multinet done by TRW or some 3rd company as part of their all around > multi-protocol networking package? Multinet was done by TGV (supposedly Two Guys and a VAX, but they denied it). Later TGV was bought by Cisco. Cisco kept the Windows stuff and sold the VMS software to Process. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Dec 12 14:30:22 2001 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Tape drives (which one to look for?) Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Hi everybody, For those of you who've read my notes on the MIPS RISComputers I'm trying to get going, I ask this because I may want to replace the QIC-120 drive that's missing from one of them with a different model. I'd like some opinions on tape drives. The drive would need to plug into a SCSI interface, and I'd like it to fit in a 5.25" half-height bay. That's pretty much all I'd require from it. It would be nice if the drive held at least as much as a QIC-120 (about 120MB, it so happens ;), and was inexpensive and easy to get used. Any suggestions? What's the going price on DDS-1 these days? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From UberTechnoid at home.com Wed Dec 12 16:09:57 2001 From: UberTechnoid at home.com (UberTechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Tape drives (which one to look for?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: <20011212221130.RCOF22385.femail33.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> You might consider the Seagate STT8000 series in a scsi form. It stores 4gb natively on a Travan cartridge. They go for about $160.00, tapes are preformatted (servo type) and go for $20.00 or so. I've had hands on many of the ide models and own an external scsi version myself. Regards, Jeff In <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, on 12/12/01 at 02:30 PM, Christopher Smith said: >Hi everybody, >For those of you who've read my notes on the MIPS RISComputers I'm trying >to get going, I ask this because I may want to replace the QIC-120 drive >that's missing from one of them with a different model. >I'd like some opinions on tape drives. The drive would need to plug into >a SCSI interface, and I'd like it to fit in a 5.25" half-height bay. >That's pretty much all I'd require from it. It would be nice if the >drive held at least as much as a QIC-120 (about 120MB, it so happens ;), >and was inexpensive and easy to get used. >Any suggestions? What's the going price on DDS-1 these days? >Regards, >Chris >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Asheville, NC USA 828-6984887 UberTechnoid@Home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Dec 12 16:41:22 2001 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Tape drives (which one to look for?) In-Reply-To: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF9B@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Christopher Smith wrote: > Any suggestions? What's the going price on DDS-1 these days? I have 2 DDS-1 drives I paid $10 apiece for, as yet untested. If DDS turns out to be your ticket, and either of these work, I'll pass one along for the same $10. Now I got a reason to see if they work. ;^) See ya later, Doc From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Dec 12 21:03:48 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Tape drives (which one to look for?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Some DDS-1 drives can do straight 2gb, others ahve hardware compression to 4. I had 2 WangDAT 3100's that only did 2, swapped them out for 2 3200's that can do either 2 or 4. Nice drives, about $10-24 each dependant on condition or seller and tapes are relatively cheap, even new ones. I prefer the HP branded tapes myself, plenty of luck with them so far. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Doc -> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:41 PM -> To: Classiccmp (E-mail) -> Subject: Re: Tape drives (which one to look for?) -> -> -> On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Christopher Smith wrote: -> -> > Any suggestions? What's the going price on DDS-1 these days? -> -> I have 2 DDS-1 drives I paid $10 apiece for, as yet untested. If -> DDS turns out to be your ticket, and either of these work, I'll pass -> one along for the same $10. -> Now I got a reason to see if they work. ;^) -> -> See ya later, -> Doc -> -> From rhblakeman at kih.net Wed Dec 12 21:03:50 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) In-Reply-To: <20011212214730.VIIU20460.femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Message-ID: Roaches aren't bad if you know they are there, as are spiders, dependant on the type and where you are in the world (I don't think I'd like some of the ones in Oz or Africa). My biggest problem is rat and mouse crap, especially since the hantavirus problems in New Mexico some years ago and their urine totally eats through copper traces on circuit boards. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of -> UberTechnoid@home.com -> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:27 PM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around -> computers) -> -> -> I once found a chunky roach jamming an injet's paper handler. Yes, the -> smokeable kind of roach. -> -> I've seen equipment literally choked with little roaches. They eat the -> insulation on wireing. Really gross to open a monitor that is crawling -> with bugs. I'm not one of those who can comfortably hold a roach or -> spider in thier hand. -> -> Or some of the pleasant surprises such as buying (not another!) -> ATR8000 to -> discover later that it had a Copower 88 and 256k of ram onboard. -> Or buying -> (not another!) 1050 disk drive to discover later it has a Super Archiver -> with Bitwriter installed. Or buying a Rana 1000 disk drive to discover -> that it Actually Works! -> -> A couple of years ago while working at my bench I hear a whoop from the -> sales floor and in rushes 'Bubba' Mac - another tech. I follow -> him to the -> bench behind the counter and see a desktop machine, i'ts skins -> laying next -> to it. Inside, near the power supply was a beautiful, full-grown, -> colorful, desicated butterfly. -> -> The machine hadn't been opened in the five years it had been owned. -> -> -> Any other spiritual (or just plain interesting) stuff found inside a -> computer? -> -> -> In , on 12/10/01 -> at 04:52 PM, Sellam Ismail said: -> -> >On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: -> -> >> > > I once encountered a TRS-80 whose keyboard wasn't working due to a -> >> > > chronic accumulation of marijuana seeds that had fallen in. -> >> > -> >> > I understand they're high in protein. Maybe this person -> ate them over -> >> > their keyboard like others eat snacks? :) -> >> -> >> If they weren't eating snacks before they ate the marijuana -> seeds, they -> >> certainly were afterwards. :-P -> -> >Sounds like this comes from someone who knows? -> -> >:) -> -> >Just busting your chops. There's nothing wrong with smoking something -> >that Mother Nature put on Earth. Shame on those that think otherwise. -> -> >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer -> >Festival -> >---------------------------------------------------------------- -> -------------- -> >International Man of Intrigue and Danger -> >http://www.vintage.org -> -> -> -- -> ----------------------------------------------------------- -> Jeffrey S. Worley -> Asheville, NC USA -> 828-6984887 -> UberTechnoid@Home.com -> ----------------------------------------------------------- -> -> From pdp11 at bellsouth.net Thu Dec 13 07:19:24 2001 From: pdp11 at bellsouth.net (Doug Carman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: VAX 8650 want a good home ... References: <3C12F4F1.9060602@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3C18AADC.383FE72C@bellsouth.net> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > Hi, > > I know where there are probably several VAX 8600s and 8650s > and a good deal more stuff. My plan is to organize a treck > that runs from south-central US through mid-west to NY. So, > if you live along the way and dream of some big iron, here > is your chance. The thing would not be for the taking, but > presumably $200-$400 (just a bit above scrap value) would be > it. Our computer center at work is a good home, and it already has an 8650 living in it. However, I am not sure how much longer it will be there. Compaq has dramatically increased the maintenance costs for the older VAX systems and our management is looking to cut costs. The last 8650 we decommissioned ended up in a scrap yard that I occasionally visit. I was able to salvage the RL02 and some of the UNIBUS components before it left us, but the bulk of the system was left to sit out in the rain. -- Doug Carman pdp11 at bellsouth dot net From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 13 07:36:16 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around compu ters) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B1D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Yeah, just what we would need to find..... a Sydney Funnel Web spider. > I don't even want to meet a Brown Recluse. All spiders have toxins in their venom; not all toxins are dangerous to humans. Apparently most humans *are* susecptible to the brown recluse, but in varying degrees. I've seen the brown recluse in my home, among several other species. Can't always tell which is which but I can tell that some are different from others. One species living in and around my home grows very large. One night, I'd come home from a drunk, and passed out with the lights on; sleeping on a mattress on the floor. I awoke from the pain of a bite, looked at my arm and saw a small amount of blood. Just at the edge of the bed, I saw a *big* spider scurry off. In my stupor, I deciced to go back to sleep; worst case, I simply wouldn't wake up. But the next day comes, bidden or not. Now, I used to have these embarrasing warts on my elbows and underside of my forearms. A couple of days later, while showering, I noticed these warts were swollen up. Strange; but I didn't give it any more thought. A week later, I looked again, and the warts were gone. Somewhere in my basement lives a species of spider that contains a miracle wart cure in its venom. If only I could determine which one, I'd be rich! I do have lots of webs in some of the classic EQ I have down in the basement (notably the SOL). But I've found that letting the ants and spiders have their way keeps the roach population in control. Much better than "Better living through Chemistry". -dq From rhblakeman at kih.net Thu Dec 13 08:26:14 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) In-Reply-To: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B1D@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Recluse spider's venom is an enzymic type vemon, it actually eats the skin away. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Douglas Quebbeman -> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:36 AM -> To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' -> Subject: RE: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around -> computers) -> -> -> > Yeah, just what we would need to find..... a Sydney Funnel Web spider. -> > I don't even want to meet a Brown Recluse. -> -> All spiders have toxins in their venom; not all toxins are -> dangerous to humans. Apparently most humans *are* susecptible -> to the brown recluse, but in varying degrees. -> -> I've seen the brown recluse in my home, among several -> other species. Can't always tell which is which but I -> can tell that some are different from others. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Dec 13 08:18:04 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01Dec13.103145est.119156@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Recluse spider's venom is an enzymic type vemon, it actually eats the skin >away. And the bites tend not to heal either, or do so very slowly. I've seen pictures of someone with large black patches of skin two years after being bitten. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Dec 13 06:42:51 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Prints for an 11/70 References: <20011212105402.G73604-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> <15383.44645.174002.831019@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C18A24B.63058FA0@verizon.net> > That's the only thing I don't like about sbus. You can fill up an > sbus card with three good-sized chips. Ridiculous. They make doubles. Dave McGuire wrote: > > On December 12, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > Are you wanting this to go in big, hex-width cards like old UNIBUS cards, > > > or will you be defining a new form factor, connector (compact UNIBUS?), > > > backplane, and card mounting system for your new UNIBUS (UNewBUS?)? > > > > Old style. > > Cool. Cards that you can actually FIT SOME COMPONENTS ON. What a > concept. > > That's the only thing I don't like about sbus. You can fill up an > sbus card with three good-sized chips. Ridiculous. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 13 06:36:03 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Need manual for Everex digital cassette drive Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B17@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > Maybe, but doubtful. This was more of a tape backup device. It uses > DIGITAL cassettes. If you've never seen one, they have a square notch > just off the center of the top of the cassette, and they have two slide > tabs to turn write-protection on/off. Otherwise, it looks just like a > regular analog cassette tape. Yeah, I've got a drive from an old Burroughs teller machine... Had a bunch of Burroughs stuff I dumped about five years ago, though I still have a direct-wire 1200 baud modem... -dq From CAA007216 at mail.ono.es Thu Dec 13 06:34:58 2001 From: CAA007216 at mail.ono.es (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Google and Usenet Archives from 15-May-1981 Message-ID: Hello. I take five minutes to review one thing that maybe somebody could clear me: I've checked the Usenet Oldnews Archive in http://communication.ucsd.edu/A-News.Archive/ and I saw the time limit that appears in Google (15-May-1981) is applicable there too. But I'm lightly surprised because some Newsgroups like FA.arpa-bboard has MORE threads than the finally displayed in a search. By example, this Usenet Group has 333 Threads but it only show 297 in a search. Can be possible that could exists even more news before 1981-May-15 archived in Google but not available by the moment ? Thanks and Greetings Sergio From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 13 06:34:12 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: USENET from 1981 to present on google Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B16@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > The earliest post of mine in there is from late 1994. To be fair, I wasn't > around much earlier than that, but there are still gaps even after the > Renaming. *REplies* to my first posts are there, but not the posts themselves... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 13 06:33:36 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: tektronix phaser Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B15@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 12, Dan Wright wrote: > > I agree...it's a great print process. I think it has much nicer looking > > output then color laser, personally...more photo-like with the glossiness and > > all :) > > It's targeted at an entirely different market than color lasers, so > that's not really a valid comparison. But yes, the Phaser III output > is *really* impressive. And if you get hungry, it's the only printer on the market with edible inks... Plus, if you run out, all you have to do is run down to WallyWorld and get a box of Crayolas... Just kidding of course; we dumped a Phaser 550 that was a toner-based laserprinter this year in favor of two Phase 850s, which use the wax-based inks. The prints do not fair well, however, in *any* form of currently produced page protectors. Even those ones they came out with for toner-prints don't work, the wax just melts onto the plastic. Perhaps glassine envelopes? -dq From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 13 00:34:12 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: CPT 9000 In-Reply-To: <20011212211426.SMDV29545.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@BENCHBOX> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 UberTechnoid@home.com wrote: > I recall having backup disks of the cpt provided packages. I'll look and > see if the disks are still where I think they are. Next time I'm at my > storage place. > > BTW The CPT box I saw ran CP/M 2.2? That, I think, was the CPT 8000. - don > Regards, > > Jeff > > In <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170DF63@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, on > 12/09/01 > at 02:59 PM, Christopher Smith said: > > >Hi everybody, > > >I remember somebody mentioning the CPT 9000 on this list recently. > > >Since I just happen to be working on one, I thought I'd post this > >question here. > > >Does anyone know where I can get some of the original software that might > >take advantage of the full screen-height? I have a copy of ventura > >publisher that was pre-installed, but I assume that its CPT9000 driver is > >corrupt. It works with the Herc ega driver, but with the CPT9000 driver, > >I just get some strange text-mode blocks. > > >I also wonder whether anyone's tried Minix on it, and whether that might > >address the whole monitor? > > >Regards, > > >Chris > > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' > >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > > > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > Asheville, NC USA > 828-6984887 > UberTechnoid@Home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From univac2 at earthlink.net Thu Dec 13 00:35:10 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 6000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If the disks are the Xenix system disks, then don't spend too much time looking for them. The hard disk has it installed. But if you have a Tandy terminal for it, I'd really like to have that. The computer hasn't arrived yet, but I have a feeling I'm really going to love it. Thanks, Owen on 12/12/01 2:41 PM, Merle K. Peirce at at258@osfn.org wrote: > > You know, we might havew a spare terminal. I'd have to look. I'm pretty > sure we might have the disks somewhere, too, but it would take some > serious digging and we'd have to get our 6000 up and run ning. Rather a nice > little system, isn't it? > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Owen Robertson wrote: > >> I am very happy today - I'm finally getting a TRS-80 Model 6000! Anyway I >> was wondering if anyone has any software for it (it runs Xenix, which it >> has), or the hardware manual, as I am only getting the Xenix manuals. And if >> anyone has one of those neat little TRS-80 DT-1 terminals for it, I'd love >> that. >> >> > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > From at258 at osfn.org Thu Dec 13 08:10:16 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 6000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm pretty sure our 6000 has 2 or 3 terminals, and we could let one go. I'll look into where they've been hidden, and get back to you. I'm pretty blitzed after my haul, and I still have to unload today. Probably be the weekend. On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Owen Robertson wrote: > If the disks are the Xenix system disks, then don't spend too much time > looking for them. The hard disk has it installed. But if you have a Tandy > terminal for it, I'd really like to have that. The computer hasn't arrived > yet, but I have a feeling I'm really going to love it. > > Thanks, > Owen > > on 12/12/01 2:41 PM, Merle K. Peirce at at258@osfn.org wrote: > > > > > You know, we might havew a spare terminal. I'd have to look. I'm pretty > > sure we might have the disks somewhere, too, but it would take some > > serious digging and we'd have to get our 6000 up and run ning. Rather a nice > > little system, isn't it? > > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Owen Robertson wrote: > > > >> I am very happy today - I'm finally getting a TRS-80 Model 6000! Anyway I > >> was wondering if anyone has any software for it (it runs Xenix, which it > >> has), or the hardware manual, as I am only getting the Xenix manuals. And if > >> anyone has one of those neat little TRS-80 DT-1 terminals for it, I'd love > >> that. > >> > >> > > > > M. K. Peirce > > > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > > > - Ovid > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From vance at ikickass.org Thu Dec 13 00:47:33 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: pleH! Message-ID: !07/11 PDP a ni deppart m'I !pleH Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 13 00:58:28 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: pleH! In-Reply-To: pleH! (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: Message-ID: <15384.20884.214371.741141@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 13, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > !07/11 PDP a ni deppart m'I !pleH Go to sleep, Sridhar. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vance at ikickass.org Thu Dec 13 01:37:38 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: pleH! In-Reply-To: <15384.20884.214371.741141@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 13, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > !07/11 PDP a ni deppart m'I !pleH > > Go to sleep, Sridhar. LOL. I have finals tomorrow and I'm trying to install MultiNet. Peace... Sridhar From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Dec 13 03:32:02 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: List of HP-PB adapters ? Message-ID: <20011213113202.A10211@mail.er-grp.com> The subject says it all, does anyone have a handy list of HP-PB adapters supported in the Nova series ? (I realize this might be *just* short of the ten year rule). Looking to add some IO to my H50. btw. I love google. I love google. Google rocks. I'm busy downloading every single message with a mention of 9000/500-series. Did I mention that google rocks ? Thanks, -- jht From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Dec 12 21:57:31 2001 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Tape drives (which one to look for?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Some DDS-1 drives can do straight 2gb, others ahve hardware compression to > 4. I had 2 WangDAT 3100's that only did 2, swapped them out for 2 3200's > that can do either 2 or 4. Nice drives, about $10-24 each dependant on > condition or seller and tapes are relatively cheap, even new ones. I prefer > the HP branded tapes myself, plenty of luck with them so far. Memorex! ~$3 each, excellent performance. Although at 3 bux a tape, I usually rotate 'em out after 12 or 15 overwrites. Paranoid is my middle name... Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 22:56:03 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011213045603.28171.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > > > 12 inches for a thousandth of a second sounds a little off...though > > > I'm too lazy to do the math... > > > > Right. The speed of light is 30 cm/ns. > > Or 1.79 X 10^12 furlongs per fortnight. 8-) I think I first heard that phrased as "~2 micro-furlongs per micro- fortnight..." -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Dec 13 04:32:16 2001 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: RIP: Betty Holberton Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC470662B3@exc-reo1> > Right. The speed of light is 30 cm/ns. The thing to remember is "one foot per nanosecond". Much easier not to forget that one! Antonio From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 23:16:35 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: SNA (was RE: I've discovered a new pleasure.) In-Reply-To: <15382.40867.604377.188956@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20011213051635.27890.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> One sick-puppy wrote: > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's > to VCF East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone > else brings machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll > be welcome to hook up to me. I have an "Informer" terminal I could bring - it resembles a luggable VT-220 with a keyboard than snaps on the front of the CRT for storage. It has a 3274-equivalent inside and any terminal can act as a controller for others of its kind, daisy-chained as slaves. I got it for $90 at the Hamvention back when I used to make SNA gear for a living. Did the SNA-for-Linux project die? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From vance at ikickass.org Thu Dec 13 00:06:01 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: SNA (was RE: I've discovered a new pleasure.) In-Reply-To: <20011213051635.27890.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > One sick-puppy wrote: Indeed. > > I am pretty sure that I will be bringing one of my IBM S/390 G1's > > to VCF East next year with VM, MVS, and Linux running. If anyone > > else brings machines capable of SNA, FDDI, Ethernet or ATM, you'll > > be welcome to hook up to me. > > I have an "Informer" terminal I could bring - it resembles a luggable > VT-220 with a keyboard than snaps on the front of the CRT for storage. > It has a 3274-equivalent inside and any terminal can act as a controller > for others of its kind, daisy-chained as slaves. I got it for $90 > at the Hamvention back when I used to make SNA gear for a living. Cool! > Did the SNA-for-Linux project die? I know they're still working on SNA support for Linux/390, but that was an IBM/Marist project, and not something for regular PC Linux. Peace... Sridhar From fernande at internet1.net Wed Dec 12 23:18:52 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Cats around computers References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3C183A3C.3D41E26D@internet1.net> I had a cat lick pictures once. They'll eat/chew on the darndest things if you let them. I think it is the taste..... something about the chemicals must be salty tasting or something. It's not like cats are chewy like dogs or rodents. My parents still have one cat that will eat/chew ribbon.... we have to be careful at Christmas. A cat of long ago would eat thread (for sewing). My mother pulled about a yard out of him one day...... he was eating it right off the spool and swallowing it!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David Woyciesjes wrote: > Well, my 3 1/2 year old cat, Isabelle, like to like tape and pictures. Never > figured that one out yet... > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 23:39:19 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Cats around computers In-Reply-To: Re: Cats around computers (Chad Fernandez) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <3C183A3C.3D41E26D@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15384.16135.884154.899990@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 13, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I had a cat lick pictures once. They'll eat/chew on the darndest things > if you let them. I think it is the taste..... something about the > chemicals must be salty tasting or something. It's not like cats are > chewy like dogs or rodents. Did anyone beside me read this wrong and laugh hysterically? -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From fernande at internet1.net Thu Dec 13 01:59:02 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Cats around computers References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014673C3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <3C183A3C.3D41E26D@internet1.net> <15384.16135.884154.899990@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C185FC6.DC705C35@internet1.net> I hope your only referring to the possibility of an over-cooked cat/dog being chewy..... if not, don't explain! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Dave McGuire wrote: > > On December 13, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I had a cat lick pictures once. They'll eat/chew on the darndest things > > if you let them. I think it is the taste..... something about the > > chemicals must be salty tasting or something. It's not like cats are > > chewy like dogs or rodents. > > Did anyone beside me read this wrong and laugh hysterically? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 13 01:01:37 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:53 2005 Subject: Cats around computers In-Reply-To: <3C183A3C.3D41E26D@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I had a cat lick pictures once. They'll eat/chew on the darndest things > if you let them. I think it is the taste..... something about the > chemicals must be salty tasting or something. It's not like cats are > chewy like dogs or rodents. > > My parents still have one cat that will eat/chew ribbon.... we have to > be careful at Christmas. A cat of long ago would eat thread (for > sewing). My mother pulled about a yard out of him one day...... he was Which end? - don > eating it right off the spool and swallowing it!! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > Well, my 3 1/2 year old cat, Isabelle, like to like tape and pictures. Never > > figured that one out yet... > > > > --- David A Woyciesjes > > --- C & IS Support Specialist > > --- Yale University Press > > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > > --- (203) 432-0953 > > --- ICQ # - 905818 > From fernande at internet1.net Thu Dec 13 01:57:28 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Cats around computers References: Message-ID: <3C185F68.6420C275@internet1.net> Don Maslin wrote: > > My parents still have one cat that will eat/chew ribbon.... we have to > > be careful at Christmas. A cat of long ago would eat thread (for > > sewing). My mother pulled about a yard out of him one day...... he was > > Which end? The entrance :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From dittman at dittman.net Thu Dec 13 08:44:46 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Cats around computers In-Reply-To: <3C185F68.6420C275@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Dec 13, 2001 02:57:28 AM Message-ID: <200112131444.fBDEikP31427@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > My parents still have one cat that will eat/chew ribbon.... we have to > > > be careful at Christmas. A cat of long ago would eat thread (for > > > sewing). My mother pulled about a yard out of him one day...... he was > > > > Which end? > > The entrance :-) My wife sews (a lot!) and every now and then one of the cats will try to eat some thread. One day we heard one of them making strange noises at the litterbox. It turns out the cat had eaten a long thread, and it was making its way out. We had to pull it out (slowly, to avoid internal injuries to the cat and external injuries to us). There was at least a foot of thread in there. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 13 07:37:53 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Cats around computers Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B1E@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 13, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I had a cat lick pictures once. They'll eat/chew on the darndest things > > if you let them. I think it is the taste..... something about the > > chemicals must be salty tasting or something. It's not like cats are > > chewy like dogs or rodents. > > Did anyone beside me read this wrong and laugh hysterically? Rodents *are* chewy... have you never had squirrel? -dq From fernande at internet1.net Wed Dec 12 23:24:38 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) References: Message-ID: <3C183B96.AEFAF37@internet1.net> Yeah, just what we would need to find..... a Sydney Funnel Web spider. I don't even want to meet a Brown Recluse. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Roaches aren't bad if you know they are there, as are spiders, dependant on > the type and where you are in the world (I don't think I'd like some of the > ones in Oz or Africa). My biggest problem is rat and mouse crap, especially > since the hantavirus problems in New Mexico some years ago and their urine > totally eats through copper traces on circuit boards. From vance at ikickass.org Thu Dec 13 00:18:37 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) In-Reply-To: <3C183B96.AEFAF37@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Yeah, just what we would need to find..... a Sydney Funnel Web spider. > I don't even want to meet a Brown Recluse. I once was bitten by a wolf spider. It's an experience I wouldn't care to repeat. Peace... Sridhar From fernande at internet1.net Thu Dec 13 02:04:45 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) References: Message-ID: <3C18611D.E06D4E8@internet1.net> I don't know anything about Wolf Spiders. Maybe that'll be something I look up. Looked up Borax on the web, BTW. I had no idea that it was natural, or that "20 Team Borax" was named after the 2 horse and 18 mule teams that used to pull the stuff, by wagon, out west a long time ago. I actually have a box of it. I use it in my laundry and for house hold cleaning. It's about the only cleaning substance I have that I haven't tried on a computer, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > I once was bitten by a wolf spider. It's an experience I wouldn't care to > repeat. > > Peace... Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Thu Dec 13 03:32:15 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) In-Reply-To: <3C18611D.E06D4E8@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I don't know anything about Wolf Spiders. Maybe that'll be something I > look up. They're considered "mildly toxic", but it hurts like a bitch. They live over much of North America. > Looked up Borax on the web, BTW. I had no idea that it was natural, or > that "20 Team Borax" was named after the 2 horse and 18 mule teams that > used to pull the stuff, by wagon, out west a long time ago. I actually > have a box of it. I use it in my laundry and for house hold cleaning. > It's about the only cleaning substance I have that I haven't tried on a > computer, However. If you're ever working on a car, and you get grease on your hand, put a small amount of powdered soap on your hand, add borax generously, a couple drops of water, so it makes a paste, and it will take the grease right off. Peace... Sridhar From rhblakeman at kih.net Thu Dec 13 08:20:53 2001 From: rhblakeman at kih.net (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I get them coming in and out of storage all of the time but I throw a smoke type insecticide bomb inside the storange trailer at the beginning of spring (once I see that nature has come to life again) and it gets rid of mud daubers, paper wasps, all sorts of spiders, roaches, etc. Particularly irritating are the cocoons of certain caterpillars that become moths - not destructive but when I ship machines I'd rather not send them to other places in the US and Canada where they might not be a problem yet. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Boatman on the -> River of Suck -> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:19 AM -> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around -> computers) -> -> -> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: -> -> > Yeah, just what we would need to find..... a Sydney Funnel Web spider. -> > I don't even want to meet a Brown Recluse. -> -> I once was bitten by a wolf spider. It's an experience I -> wouldn't care to -> repeat. -> -> Peace... Sridhar -> -> From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Dec 13 05:13:24 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) References: <3C183B96.AEFAF37@internet1.net> Message-ID: <000d01c183c7$2ef17070$de2c67cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) > Yeah, just what we would need to find..... a Sydney Funnel Web spider. Ouch, not good. Nasty SOB's. People die from those. > I don't even want to meet a Brown Recluse. Yeah, heard about them, we have similar ones here, not sure what they are called, the only common spider in this area that is very poisonous, is the the Redback, which seems to be a variant of the Black Widow, however there is another black spider that is closely related, and are very common. Fortunately they are unagressive. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ 1970476 From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Dec 13 05:59:16 2001 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Wierd Things you've found inside... (was Smoking around computers) In-Reply-To: <000d01c183c7$2ef17070$de2c67cb@helpdesk> References: <3C183B96.AEFAF37@internet1.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011213225632.02b94e18@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 09:43 PM 13/12/2001 +1030, Geoff Roberts wrote: >Yeah, heard about them, we have similar ones here, not sure what they are >called, the only common spider in this area that is very poisonous, is the >the Redback, which seems to be a variant of the Black Widow, however there >is another black spider that is closely related, and are very common. >Fortunately they are unagressive. It seems that the Redback is a very recent import to Australia (probably from the US). This new theory is based on the fact that the Aboriginal Australians do not mention the Redback in any of their dreaming stories. Now how's that for topic drift! Just filling in time while rebuilding linux kernels to support my CD-RW so I can burn a CD for a customer that I promised for 9am tomorrow morning. If this try doesn't work I'm moving the CD-RW back into the system where it used to work. Who said Server Consolidation saved money? Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From jss at subatomix.com Wed Dec 12 23:46:47 2001 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) In-Reply-To: <200112122304.MAA17124@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> Message-ID: <20011212233322.C74724-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Greg Ewing wrote: > Boatman on the River of Suck : > > > And exactly how would you speak to UNIBUS? > > At that speed, very slowly with pauses betweeen the words. :-) DUMMY MODE ON What little I've read about UNIBUS told me that UNIBUS has no set clock rate, and that the speed of communication between two devices would be the the highest rate that both devices could handle. If you've got nothing but Sridhar-made fast devices on the bus, what stops you from having a UNIBUS operating at say, 33MHz to 100MHz on average? Remember that I currently have approximately zero electrical engineering (or whatever you choose to call it) knowledge. DUMMY MODE OFF -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@subatomix.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 12 23:55:38 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) In-Reply-To: Re: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) (Jeffrey S. Sharp) References: <200112122304.MAA17124@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <20011212233322.C74724-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <15384.17114.482998.449273@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > What little I've read about UNIBUS told me that UNIBUS has no set clock > rate, and that the speed of communication between two devices would be the > the highest rate that both devices could handle. If you've got nothing > but Sridhar-made fast devices on the bus, what stops you from having a > UNIBUS operating at say, 33MHz to 100MHz on average? I don't recall the specifics of Unibus...but its bandwidth is commonly stated as being about 7MB/sec. If that's the case, then it's unlikely that it's asynchronous. But perhaps it is asynchronous, and 7MB/sec was just the maximum. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 13 00:19:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) References: <200112122304.MAA17124@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz><20011212233322.C74724-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> <15384.17114.482998.449273@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <001f01c1839e$30c25c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I remember reading that a principal difference between a microcomputer, back in the old days, and a minicomputer, was that the mini had an asynchronous bus. That was, ISTR, a definition based largely on the DEC-realized version of the minicomputer. If it topped out at 7 MBps, it was probably because the bus handshake was clocked with a CPU clock, in order to ensure the CPU would "see" the transitions. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:55 PM Subject: Re: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) > On December 12, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > What little I've read about UNIBUS told me that UNIBUS has no set clock > > rate, and that the speed of communication between two devices would be the > > the highest rate that both devices could handle. If you've got nothing > > but Sridhar-made fast devices on the bus, what stops you from having a > > UNIBUS operating at say, 33MHz to 100MHz on average? > > I don't recall the specifics of Unibus...but its bandwidth is commonly > stated as being about 7MB/sec. If that's the case, then it's unlikely > that it's asynchronous. But perhaps it is asynchronous, and 7MB/sec > was just the maximum. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 13 00:34:07 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) In-Reply-To: Re: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) (Richard Erlacher) References: <200112122304.MAA17124@s454.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> <20011212233322.C74724-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> <15384.17114.482998.449273@phaduka.neurotica.com> <001f01c1839e$30c25c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15384.19423.58919.803430@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > If it topped out at 7 MBps, it was probably because the bus handshake was > clocked with a CPU clock, in order to ensure the CPU would "see" the > transitions. I am reminded of my favorite piece of broken english, found in a Taiwanese PeeCee motherboard manual many years ago: "If use 387 coprocessor, the clocked by CPU clock." No, I made no typos there. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vance at ikickass.org Thu Dec 13 00:30:23 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) In-Reply-To: <15384.17114.482998.449273@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 12, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > What little I've read about UNIBUS told me that UNIBUS has no set clock > > rate, and that the speed of communication between two devices would be the > > the highest rate that both devices could handle. If you've got nothing > > but Sridhar-made fast devices on the bus, what stops you from having a > > UNIBUS operating at say, 33MHz to 100MHz on average? > > I don't recall the specifics of Unibus...but its bandwidth is commonly > stated as being about 7MB/sec. If that's the case, then it's unlikely > that it's asynchronous. But perhaps it is asynchronous, and 7MB/sec > was just the maximum. That's why I was thinking of addressing multiple busses. Not only that, I want to maintain compatibility with existing devices. Peace... Sridhar From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 13 00:43:25 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) In-Reply-To: Re: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) (Boatman on the River of Suck) References: <15384.17114.482998.449273@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15384.19981.676941.488790@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 13, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > That's why I was thinking of addressing multiple busses. Not only that, I > want to maintain compatibility with existing devices. I don't recall who at the moment...but there's some company somewhere who makes a PCI-Qbus bridge, and maybe a Unibus one as well. The idea is to use a pdp11 emulator on a crappy PeeCee and be able to connect your DEC peripherals to it. I would love to see NetBSD/alpha drivers for that board...I'd put an RL02 (or maybe an RK07!) on one my Alphas! 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL From vance at ikickass.org Thu Dec 13 01:34:14 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Boatman on the River of Suck) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) In-Reply-To: <15384.19981.676941.488790@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > That's why I was thinking of addressing multiple busses. Not only that, I > > want to maintain compatibility with existing devices. > > I don't recall who at the moment...but there's some company > somewhere who makes a PCI-Qbus bridge, and maybe a Unibus one as > well. The idea is to use a pdp11 emulator on a crappy PeeCee and be > able to connect your DEC peripherals to it. I wonder if the emulator would work multiprocessor... that might help me achieve the kind of speed that I want. > I would love to see NetBSD/alpha drivers for that board...I'd put an > RL02 (or maybe an RK07!) on one my Alphas! 8-) Or even NetBSD/sparc64. An RK07 on an Ultra Enterprise. That would be truly bizarre. Peace... Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Dec 13 02:46:13 2001 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) In-Reply-To: <15384.19981.676941.488790@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > I don't recall who at the moment...but there's some company > somewhere who makes a PCI-Qbus bridge, and maybe a Unibus one as > well. The idea is to use a pdp11 emulator on a crappy PeeCee and be > able to connect your DEC peripherals to it. Here's a list, Unibus & Qbus PCI adapters: http://www.dbit.com/adapters.html Doc From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Dec 13 09:03:45 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 References: Message-ID: <3C18C351.78F328B5@idirect.com> >Doc wrote: > On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > I don't recall who at the moment...but there's some company > > somewhere who makes a PCI-Qbus bridge, and maybe a Unibus one as > > well. The idea is to use a pdp11 emulator on a crappy PeeCee and be > > able to connect your DEC peripherals to it. > Here's a list, Unibus & Qbus PCI adapters: > http://www.dbit.com/adapters.html Jerome Fine replies: Just a few words about the above adapters. Note that this information is second hand since I have not used them myself, only been in direct contact with the actual users. V2.2 of Ersatz-11 (E11) had some problems with use in a multi-processor environment when the TLC adapters were being used. From the information about the problem, it was only going to cause a difficulty if there was more than one PDP-11 being emulated (Multi-Processor) at the same time. The reason the difficulty was not causing a problem in V2.2 was that no one was attempting a multi-processor configuration like a PDP-11/74 system - not that E11 even supported such a configuration in V2.2 of E11. The actual reason for the problem was that the internal code within V2.2 of E11 did not correctly do a Read/Modify/Write cycle for an instruction such as: Bis #100,@#CSR rather, first a Read, then internally the Modify and finally a full Write cycle. This could have allowed a second CPU to also begin the same sequence at almost the identical time and thereby result in a timing problem. With V3.0 of E11, this issue has been corrected. While the Unibus users of E11 have not found a difficulty with the software/hardware being used with a BCI-2004 adapter, the Qbus users with a BCI-2104 adapter had found there is a problem which causes the incorrect execution of the above instruction with a Qbus board in a BA23 box and V3.0 of E11 using the BCI-2104 adapter. On the other hand, using V2.2 of E11 runs everything in a satisfactory manner. At the present time, there is a suspicion that the problem could be with the timing for the Qbus board which obviously functions correctly in that BA23 box when used with a real DEC PDP-11/73 CPU, but not when V3.0 of E11 is used with the adapter. Or the firmware and hardware associated with the BCI-2104 could be the problem. Note that if the instruction is changed to a: Mov #100,@#CSR then there is only a Write cycle and everything is again OK even with V3.0 of E11. Also, realize that the adapter is almost as expensive and the first license for the Commercial Version of Ersatz-11, the cost being about $ US 2500 and $ US 3000 ($ US 4000 for the Linux version - although I understand the Linux version of E11 still does not support the adapters), respectively. On the other hand, no DEC PDP-11 today is able to run at the speed of even a Pentium III system. And even the PDP-11/93 CPU cards are almost as much today as a Commercial E11 license. But a Mentec Qbus CPU or a QED CPU card that attempts to approach the speed of E11 on a Pentium IV is probably far more expensive than the combined cost of E11 and the PC. Of course, if a company requires the extra speed and they have hardware which can't be emulated (which means there can be problems with the interaction between the adapters and the emulator, then a full Qbus only system is probably best. As for the person who mentions the Charon-11 emulator, >Ian Koller wrote: > Dave, > > I don't recall who at the moment...but there's some company > > somewhere who makes a PCI-Qbus bridge > Mentec offers those, as well as a PDP-11 emulator. > http://www.mentec.com/mentecinc/emulation.htm > http://www.mentec.com/mentecinc/PCIQ_Adapter.htm I understand that the fellows who use E11 and the Unibus hardware have attempted to use the Charon-11 as well and found it to be very unsatisfactory. By the way, Charon-11 is NOT a Mentec product, as far as I know, Mentec just pretends it is and sell the Charon-11 emulator as if it is a Mentec product. My guess is that Mentec did not want to have Ersatz-11 as their "official" emulator offering for the kind of reasons that companies have when the decision is made to offer a product which is not as technically capable as some other product, i.e. I have been told that E11 is much better than Charon-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From vze2mnvr at verizon.net Thu Dec 13 06:24:23 2001 From: vze2mnvr at verizon.net (Ian Koller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) References: <15384.17114.482998.449273@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15384.19981.676941.488790@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3C189DF7.9AFA85E4@verizon.net> Dave, > I don't recall who at the moment...but there's some company > somewhere who makes a PCI-Qbus bridge Mentec offers those, as well as a PDP-11 emulator. http://www.mentec.com/mentecinc/emulation.htm http://www.mentec.com/mentecinc/PCIQ_Adapter.htm Dave McGuire wrote: > > On December 13, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > That's why I was thinking of addressing multiple busses. Not only that, I > > want to maintain compatibility with existing devices. > > I don't recall who at the moment...but there's some company > somewhere who makes a PCI-Qbus bridge, and maybe a Unibus one as > well. The idea is to use a pdp11 emulator on a crappy PeeCee and be > able to connect your DEC peripherals to it. > > I would love to see NetBSD/alpha drivers for that board...I'd put an > RL02 (or maybe an RK07!) on one my Alphas! 8-) > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 13 00:15:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) References: <20011212233322.C74724-100000@lepton.subatomix.com> Message-ID: <001101c1839d$99bd2ae0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've always favored hot-rodding. Something like this might be both interesting and useful. If someone actually has complete documentation, not just a part of it, perhaps that includes all the logic to operate the bus. However, I don't remember ever hearing about a signaling protocol on the UNIBUS that would allow the devices to determine the speed at which such operations would take place. However, DEC was prone to use closed-loop signaling, so the rate was dependent on the execution of a precisely defined handshake. If you can manage that, the bus interface should be straightforward enough. That should allow mixing of devices of various speeds, so long as they adhere, absolutely, to the signaling protocol and there's a timer somewhere in the system that aborts a bus transaction when it takes too long. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:46 PM Subject: Re: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) > On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Greg Ewing wrote: > > > Boatman on the River of Suck : > > > > > And exactly how would you speak to UNIBUS? > > > > At that speed, very slowly with pauses betweeen the words. :-) > > DUMMY MODE ON > > What little I've read about UNIBUS told me that UNIBUS has no set clock > rate, and that the speed of communication between two devices would be the > the highest rate that both devices could handle. If you've got nothing > but Sridhar-made fast devices on the bus, what stops you from having a > UNIBUS operating at say, 33MHz to 100MHz on average? > > Remember that I currently have approximately zero electrical engineering > (or whatever you choose to call it) knowledge. > > DUMMY MODE OFF > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@subatomix.com > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 13 07:40:37 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: 1GHz PDP-11 (Re: Prints for an 11/70) Message-ID: <7A9BACCEF0171D4FB77019F5104CDD37225B1F@jeffserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > If it topped out at 7 MBps, it was probably because the bus handshake was > > clocked with a CPU clock, in order to ensure the CPU would "see" the > > transitions. > > I am reminded of my favorite piece of broken english, found in a > Taiwanese PeeCee motherboard manual many years ago: > > "If use 387 coprocessor, the clocked by CPU clock." > > No, I made no typos there. :-) I bought a CGA-compatible video cards a few years back (80s), that had an incompatible hi-res mode in addition to the CGA, and a mouse interface. The manual kept referring to "the connector of the ten ways". This sounded *SO* Zen that I was sure than once I had it figured it, it'd be the secret to life. Finally dawned on me that this was "10-pin connector". -dq From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 13 00:08:34 2001 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Smoking around computers and cats, what about... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20011213060834.12225.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > I have an old chest freezer in the garage (away from the house) that ALL > machines get to sit inside of overnight when they're dropped off... > ...combined with the extreme winter Wow... I guess I've been lucky. Nothing has ever crawled out of a machine I just got. > Of course monitors, pcs, etc have to sit in the warm shop an hour or two > before apply power - hell on fuses when 25kv arcs across a monitor CRT > that's sweating. Not only that, but it's harmful to apply power to cold-soaked devices. If you read the full specs, stuff with ICs tends to say that you can store it at -40C/F, but not to expose it to more than a 2 deg/hr temp rise. I did just that when I picked up a computer that had been sitting for the entire winter in an unheated building at Williams Field, Antarctica. We kept the heat off in the truck, brought the computer to the science lab and warmed it over a two day period from -40F to +50F before letting it sit in the room for a while. Three days after the initial rescue, we powered it on and all was well. Paranoid perhaps, but it didn't hurt to be that paranoid. It's not like I was sitting there manually tweaking the temperature (we used a thermal chamber). All this for a Compaq 386sx box. :-P -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 13 00:22:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: Nanoseconds per foot (RE: RIP: Betty Holberton) References: Message-ID: <002b01c1839e$7aafd660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The work done by Blood and published in the Motorola MECL System Design Handbook is still the idustry benchmark, used by the guys who write the IBIS models and processing software. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: CLeyson@aol.com To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Nanoseconds per foot (RE: RIP: Betty Holberton) For coax or twisted pair the delay per unit length is given by:- Delay (Secs/unit length) = Root( (C/unit length)*(L/unit length) ) Example: For RG58-U coax, C=100pF/m and L=250nH/m Delay = root(250E-9*100E-12) = 5E-9 sec/m or 5ns/m A pulse will travel 66% slower in RG-58 cable than free space. If anyone needs to lay out high speed PCB's the following book is highly recommended: "High Speed Digital Design - A Handbook of Black Magic" Howard W Johnson and Martin Graham ISBN 0-13-395724-1 Chris Leyson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20011212/9afb57bf/attachment.html From jhingber at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 12 21:07:57 2001 From: jhingber at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey H. Ingber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: What's with this Lisa? Message-ID: <1008212882.11694.30.camel@eleusis> Please see this item and read the description: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1309308140 I have a similar machine which I would call identical except for the green-screen. All the "prototype" markings that the auction makes mention of I have seen seen on my Lisa, as well as the only other one I've seen. I believe these markings to be common, and that the screen was a replacement job by a 3rd party. Is this guy misinformed or am I? Thanks, Jeffrey H. Ingber (jhingber _at_ ix.netcom.com) From cbajpai at mediaone.net Wed Dec 12 21:55:19 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: What's with this Lisa? In-Reply-To: <1008212882.11694.30.camel@eleusis> Message-ID: <000401c18389$fbe2fd80$017ba8c0@ne.mediaone.net> I've exchanged emails with Adam...he is quite knowledgeable about Lisas, I think he has 5+ Lisas, so I have to believe that he knows what he is talking about. He even helped to get mine up and running. I'm just surprised that he would part with such a machine (if it's that rare). -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey H. Ingber Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:08 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: What's with this Lisa? Please see this item and read the description: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1309308140 I have a similar machine which I would call identical except for the green-screen. All the "prototype" markings that the auction makes mention of I have seen seen on my Lisa, as well as the only other one I've seen. I believe these markings to be common, and that the screen was a replacement job by a 3rd party. Is this guy misinformed or am I? Thanks, Jeffrey H. Ingber (jhingber _at_ ix.netcom.com) From louiss at gate.net Wed Dec 12 22:08:53 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: What's with this Lisa? In-Reply-To: <1008212882.11694.30.camel@eleusis> Message-ID: On 12 Dec 2001 22:07:57 -0500, Jeffrey H. Ingber wrote: #I have a similar machine which I would call identical except for the #green-screen. All the "prototype" markings that the auction makes #mention of I have seen seen on my Lisa, as well as the only other one #I've seen. I believe these markings to be common, and that the screen #was a replacement job by a 3rd party. Is this guy misinformed or am I? # Well, notice the guy really doesn't claim anything about the machine's history. As far as the Widget peculiarities are concerned, the piggy-back Z8 processor and other features were found on early Widgets. I have several. I think "prototype" did get stamped on a lot things that were sold commercially, since I have that stamp on various Apple equipment as well. The green screen may well be a replacement. Some time ago, someone claimed to be selling an original "rare" disk III for an Apple III in a Disk II case. Such things did exist (I have one), but the one being auctioned was clearly a hack (wrong labels). The problem with these eBay claims is the person making them has no real idea about the history of the item, so he just makes up something that seems plausible to him. Without documentation, these claims aren't really worth anything, IMHO. Louis From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 12 23:38:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:19:54 2005 Subject: What's with this Lisa? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Louis Schulman wrote: > The problem with these eBay claims is the person making them has no > real idea about the history of the item, so he just makes up something > that seems plau