From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat May 1 21:00:04 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:41 2005 Subject: RQDX3 break out board? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990430111650.03d41e90@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 30, 99 11:18:29 am Message-ID: <199905010200.TAA28977@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Chuck: I can send you one if you find no other offers. Kevin > > Ok, does anyone have an extra RQDX3 breakout board? This is the board that > connects to the controller and then it has connectors for an RX50 and MFM > hard drive(s). > > --Chuck > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat May 1 21:02:47 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:45 2005 Subject: Getting RT-11 source to disk In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990430114153.03c8d910@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 30, 99 11:43:40 am Message-ID: <199905010202.TAA29316@fraser.sfu.ca> Kermit does this better than just about any other utility. Get it from www.kermit.org and use the TRANSMIT command. Kevin > > Ok, it looks like the only way I have of getting source code from the 'net > on to the disks is to use EDIT and the "stuff text down the serial line" > hack in hyperterm. Assuming that I set hyperterm to send text slowly. What > are the minimum commands in EDIT to: > 1) Open a new file. > 2) Go into Insert Mode > 3) Exit insert mode and save the file. > --Chuck > > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 1 01:29:46 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:45 2005 Subject: Cosmac ELF article in Popular Electronics In-Reply-To: <000801be9391$a2c96080$10b620d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 May 1999, Francois wrote: > It's all your fault, plus I had the July 1977 issue of PE on my desk: I > scanned the graphic interface article for the Elf it's under the schematics > section at: > http://people.mn.mediaone.net/fauradon/schematics.htm Man, how'd you get such nice scans!? And they even came out smaller than my scans. What scanner are you using, and what DPI did you scan at? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From roblwill at usaor.net Fri May 14 18:58:02 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:45 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 with no drives? Message-ID: <01be9e65$9a367be0$d89ba6d1@the-general> The other two options could have been a number of things, such as a HD/floppy controller, a clock/battery, and I remember even seeing one that plugged into an expansion slot and the 8088/8087 sockets. It had a parallel, serial, VGA video (on a separate backplate - so the thing actually took up two slots), high-density floppy, IDE HD, clock/battery, and 4 30-pin SIMM sockets. I wish I could find one of those cards - or find out who made them. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Daniel T. Burrows To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 1:28 PM Subject: Re: IBM PC 5150 with no drives? > >>IBM's braindead decision to have 5 (instead of 8) expansion slots meant >>that aftermarket "multifunction" cards became quite popular. MANY of >>them advertised SIX functions; after memory, serial, parallel, and >>joystick, how many people remember what purported to be the other two >>functions? > From roblwill at usaor.net Sat May 15 00:54:19 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 with no drives? Message-ID: <01be9e97$5fabd6a0$de8ea6d1@the-general> I don't think that the card was marketed directly for the PC, but for 8088's with a free expansion slot in general. It probably came out in the late 80's (maybe even early 90's), for people wanting to upgrade their XT's to something more up-to-date, without buying a whole new computer. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Marvin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 5:18 PM Subject: Re: IBM PC 5150 with no drives? >Jason Willgruber wrote: >> >> The other two options could have been a number of things, such as a >> HD/floppy controller, a clock/battery, and >> >> I remember even seeing one that plugged into an expansion slot and the >> 8088/8087 sockets. It had a parallel, serial, VGA video (on a separate >> backplate - so the thing actually took up two slots), high-density floppy, >> IDE HD, clock/battery, and 4 30-pin SIMM sockets. I wish I could find one >> of those cards - or find out who made them. > >Any card that used VGA would come along several years later after the PC was >introduced (can't remember off hand what year VGA was first introduced.) >Interesting comment about an IDE controller and the SIMM sockets for the PC; >I have only heard rumors that an IDE controller was built for the PC, and I >have only seen SIMM expansion boards for the 16 bit bus. > From roblwill at usaor.net Sat May 15 18:12:04 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: IBM PC 5150 with no drives? Message-ID: <01be9f28$5883e660$fa8ea6d1@the-general> Wasn't a 5 or 10 MB FH HD available for the PC? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 7:11 AM Subject: Re: IBM PC 5150 with no drives? >No, The PC and XT both came with FH drives. The XT also came with a FH hard >drive. > > Joe > >At 08:35 AM 3/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Was the 5150 the only one delivered with full-height drives? I've seen >>both on the 5160, but don't know which is original. >> >>On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> >>> On 14 Mar 99 at 23:19, Merle K. Peirce wrote: >>> >>> > There wasa also a 5162 PC. We've got a couple of them. Does anyone >know >>> > how they were set up? full height or half height floppies? Any hard >drives? >>> > >>> > On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >>> > >>> > > > >>> > > > >My understanding is that some of the very first 5150s did ship >with no >>> > > > >>> > > > I have heard people talk about a 5150 a few times, where are some >good pics >>> > > > and specs so I can appear less dumb in the future? >>> > > >>> > > It's the original (1981-ish) IBM Personal Computer. The other common >(for >>> > > this group) numbers are : >>> > > >>> > > 5150 PC >>> > > 5151 MDA monitor >>> > > 5152 Graphics printer >>> > > 5153 CGA monitor >>> > > 5154 EGA monitor >>> > > 5155 Portable PC (sewing machine style case) >>> > > >>> > > 5160 PC/XT >>> > > 5161 Expansion Chassis >>> > > >>> > > 5170 PC/AT >>> > > >>> > > 5140 PC convertable (laptop) ? >>> > > >>> > > Now why do I remeber the above? >>> > > >>> > > -tony >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> That one set me searching my books and files. >>> It's an XT 286 Scott Mueller's book has full system architecture specs. >>> >>> 80286 cpu at 6mhz w/0 wait states >>> 640k mem >>> 1.2M 1/2 ht fdd and 20m hdd came standard but it will >>> support an additional 1/2 ht. Either 5 1/4, or 3 1/2 >>> 720/1440. >>> Damn ! Another to add to my "stuff" >>> >>> To Tony's list could also be added >>> 3270 PC an XT with 3270 connectivity >>> 5279 ? it's monitor (have one but it's buried) >>> >>> XT 370 giving connectivity to and emulation of the S/370 >>> >>> AT 3270 like the XT model but based on an AT >>> >>> 5144 PC Convertable mono monitor >>> 5145 PC Convertable colour monitor >>> >>> And then at the height of his power the Big Blue God created >>> the mighty PS/2 8580, MCA , and VGA >>> >>> ciao larry >>> lwalker@interlog.com >>> >> >>M. K. Peirce >>Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. >>215 Shady Lea Road, >>North Kingstown, RI 02852 >> >>"Casta est qui nemo rogavit." >> >> - Ovid >> >> > > From roblwill at usaor.net Sat May 15 22:32:42 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Cleaning My Room Message-ID: <01be9f4c$c1542280$159ba6d1@the-general> Dang! I wish I liven in WI. :) -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 6:10 PM Subject: FW: Cleaning My Room > Attention, would-be rescuers in or near Milwaukee, WI! There's a >graduating student (Josh Hulbert) looking to get rid of a VAXen and PDP-11 >(unknown model) as freebies. > > If interested, contact him directly. Best of luck! > >-=-=- -=-=- > >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:26:47 -0600 (CST) >From: Joshua Hulbert >To: port-vax@netbsd.org >Subject: Cleaning My Room >Sender: port-vax-owner@netbsd.org >Delivered-To: port-vax@netbsd.org > >Hello All, > >I will be graduating at the end of this quarter and moving several hundred >miles away from my dorm, so I need to minimize the amount of stuff I take >with me. I have the following VAX-related equipment, free for the taking: > >VS2000, with VR-160-DA, LK201, and puck-mouse. I have the 3-meter long >cable for this one. It has an RD-54, and a RAM expansion to 20MB IIRC. I >know it boots and runs NetBSD just fine, but there is nothing on the RD54. > >PDP-11: I know next to nothing about this thing. I picked it up for $10 >at American Science and Surplus. From what I could gather, it may have >been a terminal server or something. It doesn't have enough RAM to load >an OS, but it has some funky ROM card. If anyone is interested, I can >send the M-numbers on the cards in the cage. > >Heres the catch: You have to come get it, as shipping would exceed the >value of these boxes. I live in downtown Milwaukee, Wisconsin (USA). >Again, if anyone is interested, I can send part numbers on all the parts. > >Joshua Hulbert >Senior Electrical Engineer >Milwaukee School of Engineering > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sat May 1 00:15:30 1999 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Cosmac ELF article in Popular Electronics Message-ID: <000801be9391$a2c96080$10b620d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> It's all your fault, plus I had the July 1977 issue of PE on my desk: I scanned the graphic interface article for the Elf it's under the schematics section at: http://people.mn.mediaone.net/fauradon/schematics.htm By the way this is supposed to be part IV what was part III? Francois > >I scanned the two-part Cosmac "ELF" article from the August and September >1976 issues of Popular Electronics for someone and stuck them on the VCF >website. Although they aren't the best scans (72dpi, greyscale) they are >legible. However there are some parts that may not be readable. Anyway, >they are avaialble at the following URLs: > >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf1.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf2.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf3.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf4.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf5.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf6.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf7.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf8.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf9.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf10.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/elf11.jpg > >These are fairly big files (~350K - 500K each). > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 04/03/99] > > From eric at brouhaha.com Sat May 1 02:35:44 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Great find In-Reply-To: <199904291954.MAA08014@civic.hal.com> (message from Dwight Elvey on Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:54:11 -0700 (PDT)) References: <199904291954.MAA08014@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <19990501073544.12532.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dwight wrote: > I can't understand why anyone would expect too high > a price for these, though. Although not common, many > were just tossed out. There is an item in my collection for which I had to pay five times the original list price, because of this very phenomenon. Things that used to be common as dirt and got thrown away when they became obsolete are sometimes amazingly hard to find. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 1 02:38:19 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Indy keyboard? In-Reply-To: Mike Ford "Indy keyboard?" (Apr 30, 15:49) References: <199904301025.UAA01348@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <9905010838.ZM25831@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 30, 15:49, Mike Ford wrote: > One of my friends picked up a SGI Indigo (he calls it a purple), and he > doesn't have a keyboard for it (or mouse I suspect), what will work? He > tried a PC keyboard I think, and got "keyboard error". The keyboards used on Indigos and Personal IRIS machines are custom keyboards -- you need the right one. They use custom 3-button mice as well, which plug into the keyboard. The Indigo versions use a 6-pin miniDIN connector which looks like a PS/2 connector, but the pinout, voltages, and protocols are completely different. Indys and later machines use a standard PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse. A good source is Greg Douglas at Reputable Systems: http://www.reputable.com/ A useful source of information is the "This Old SGI" document, at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Sat May 1 02:48:23 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fwd: decmate II In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990430112848.00ab89f0@206.231.8.2> (message from Christian Fandt on Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:37:52 -0400) References: <4.1.19990430112848.00ab89f0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <19990501074823.12576.qmail@brouhaha.com> It would help rather more to know what kind of printer it is. The fact that it's a DECmate narrows down the range of possible printers somewhat, but really isn't enough. Although I'd strongly recommend that anyone still using a DECmate for real work give some serious consideration to moving to something a bit more modern, like WordStar on an IBM XT. The DECmate is a nice toy (I have several), but if it breaks you're pretty much S.O.L. Several people have written me asking if I could recover valuable data from their broken DECmates, but they didn't feel like paying my consulting rates. > Hey DEC DECMATE folks! > > The fellow whose msg is copied below is looking for some advice on > re-belting a DECMATE II. As I have neither experience nor manual on the > machine, I feel some of you may help instead as you're the types who really > could. > > Email directly to Bill. The machine is somewhere in Minnesota. Thanks muchly! > > Regards, Chris > -- -- > > >Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:42:58 -0500 > >From: wdoherty > >To: cfandt@netsync.net > >Subject: decmateII > > > >My mother-in-law (you can see why this is important to me!) has a > >DECMATEII Cira 1983. The belt on the printer broke. DEC will sell her > >the belt but nobody knows how to put it on. can you recommend sites, > >collectors, or hobbyiests who may have this knowledge? She is also > >willing to sell to a collector. > > > >Thank you, > >Bill Doherty From red at bears.org Sat May 1 04:07:32 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Indy keyboard? In-Reply-To: <9905010838.ZM25831@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > The keyboards used on Indigos and Personal IRIS machines are custom > keyboards -- you need the right one. They use custom 3-button mice as > well, which plug into the keyboard. The Indigo versions use a 6-pin > miniDIN connector which looks like a PS/2 connector, but the pinout, > voltages, and protocols are completely different. Indys and later machines > use a > standard PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse. A good source is Greg Douglas at > Reputable Systems: Oops, you're right of course. The Indigos use keyboards that only pretend to be PS/2 compatible. My R4400 Indigo does not use an actual PS/2 keyboard. I thought it did, but double-checking reveals my mistake. Sorry for the mis-information. ok r. From mikeford at netwiz.net Sat May 1 05:25:51 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Great find In-Reply-To: <19990501073544.12532.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <199904291954.MAA08014@civic.hal.com> (message from Dwight Elvey on Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:54:11 -0700 (PDT)) Message-ID: >Dwight wrote: >> I can't understand why anyone would expect too high >> a price for these, though. Although not common, many >> were just tossed out. > >There is an item in my collection for which I had to pay five times the >original list price, because of this very phenomenon. Things that used >to be common as dirt and got thrown away when they became obsolete are >sometimes amazingly hard to find. We are actually quite spoiled from getting $50k computers for nothing, and you become jaded thinking everything should have that sort of discount. Its a marketplace, and I freely admit it is a heck of a lot nicer to be on the buying end with no other serious bidders. Two months ago I was at an auction of telephone equipment, maybe $75k in phones and related PBX type boxes, with one little lot of a dozen old macs at the end. I almost bought them for pennies on the dollar, except for one other person bidding, and found myself really grousing at paying 10 cents on the dollar. Twisted. The amount of items we have to pay a serious amount as a percentage of new cost is so small we have no good reason to complain. Thats the way the old stuff is, a buck for the printer, and $25 each for a cartridge and a AC adapter to make it work. From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sat May 1 06:13:54 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Help! Univac punch card machines .... Message-ID: <199905011113.HAA26296@golden.net> >Just taking the keyboard and nametag is not preservation, but trophying. >But while I discourage the wanton disregard for the actual hardware, which >is really the part that's worth preserving, I realize not everyone has the >facilities to store such a large artifact. I suggest you try to find >someone in your area who is capable of and willing to store the beasts. > Two things please: 1..Alex posted this message since he wan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sat May 1 06:17:24 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Help! Univac punch card machines .... Message-ID: <199905011117.HAA26732@golden.net> >Just taking the keyboard and nametag is not preservation, but trophying. >But while I discourage the wanton disregard for the actual hardware, which >is really the part that's worth preserving, I realize not everyone has the >facilities to store such a large artifact. I suggest you try to find >someone in your area who is capable of and willing to store the beasts. > Two things please: 1..Alex posted this message since he doesn't want to canabalilize so we need not give him that advice and more importantly, 2..Alex found it, he is a collector not a preservationist, so he can do what he wants. We should appreciate the notice without, what I read as, criticism. p.s. sorry for the original half-done post. Yours in good faith. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sat May 1 08:50:01 1999 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Cosmac ELF article in Popular Electronics Message-ID: <000a01be93d9$88b98b00$7cb520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> I sent another message about my scans that was rejected by the listproc (had a command keyword in the first line!) I scanned at 100 DPI in 16M colors then saved as JPEG and tada! I don't know what the deal is, what color resolution did you use? I believe JPEG is better at compressing full color images than lower color depth one. I used an Artec as6e scanner and Paint Shop. I was goin to do some color reduction on them but when I saw the size I didn't think it would be necessary. Francois >Man, how'd you get such nice scans!? And they even came out smaller than >my scans. What scanner are you using, and what DPI did you scan at? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat May 1 10:51:18 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 added to the VCF Archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990501085118.015a2c90@agora.rdrop.com> At 06:39 PM 4/30/99 -0700, you wrote: > >This one will NOT be converted into a bar: > >http://www.vintage.org/crap/vax1.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/vax2.jpg >http://www.vintage.org/crap/vax3.jpg Most cool! Congrats! >Look at the size of that power connector!!! Yeah, and your point would be??? So... what do you plan to be the first thing to boot up on it? B^} -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 1 10:51:27 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fwd: decmate II Message-ID: <199905011551.AA28290@world.std.com> Message-ID: <004201be93f8$ca92bfa0$013da8c0@Corellian> Someone posted a few pages from the Lunar Module software (called "Luminary") on a web page at: http://www.pacifier.com/~garyn. If interested, grab it soon, as it won't be there for long. Its about 1800 pages long! Its written in assembler and dated 12/19/1969 Neat! From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat May 1 12:46:33 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 added to the VCF Archives In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990501085118.015a2c90@agora.rdrop.com> References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990501104516.009f54e0@mcmanis.com> At 08:51 AM 5/1/99 -0700, Jim wrote: >So... what do you plan to be the first thing to boot up on it? [the 8600] B^} Well if we can rewhack the power controller to use a collection of 120V circuits then I've got a NetBSD kernel with 8600 support built into it. It would probably be a good candidate. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 1 12:38:58 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Great find In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 1, 99 03:25:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 617 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990501/81c5999e/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 1 14:43:21 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Indy keyboard? In-Reply-To: "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" "Re: Indy keyboard?" (May 1, 5:07) References: Message-ID: <9905012043.ZM26916@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 1, 5:07, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > Oops, you're right of course. The Indigos use keyboards that only pretend > to be PS/2 compatible. My R4400 Indigo does not use an actual PS/2 > keyboard. I thought it did, but double-checking reveals my mistake. > > Sorry for the mis-information. Easy mistake to make :-) I had to think for a few minutes to be sure that an R4400 Indigo wasn't PS/2, because Indigo^2 keyboards etc are, and the keyboard connector is on the same board as the R4400. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat May 1 16:07:39 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fwd: decmate II In-Reply-To: <19990501074823.12576.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "May 1, 1999 7:48:23 am" Message-ID: <199905012107.RAA08566@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > It would help rather more to know what kind of printer it is. The fact > that it's a DECmate narrows down the range of possible printers somewhat, > but really isn't enough. > > Although I'd strongly recommend that anyone still using a DECmate for real > work give some serious consideration to moving to something a bit more > modern, like WordStar on an IBM XT. The DECmate is a nice toy (I have > several), but if it breaks you're pretty much S.O.L. Several people have > written me asking if I could recover valuable data from their broken > DECmates, but they didn't feel like paying my consulting rates. > I recommend WPS-PC or WPS-80 on a Rainbow or DEC Robin (VT180). Nothing (and I'm a big WordStar fan) is as nice (and easy) to use for straight word processing as a DECmate type machine with a DEC WPS style system. Bill From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 1 17:35:56 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 added to the VCF Archives In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501104516.009f54e0@mcmanis.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19990501085118.015a2c90@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: >At 08:51 AM 5/1/99 -0700, Jim wrote: >>So... what do you plan to be the first thing to boot up on it? [the 8600] > B^} > >Well if we can rewhack the power controller to use a collection of 120V >circuits then I've got a NetBSD kernel with 8600 support built into it. It >would probably be a good candidate. Bah, it's a VAX, it should be running VMS. I totally fail to understand why, especially now that licenses are free for hobbyist use, anyone would want to run UNIX on a VAX! A system like that should be part of a nice VMS cluster! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat May 1 17:04:48 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: RT/HT-11 results Message-ID: <4.1.19990501144241.009f0e30@mcmanis.com> Executive Summary: Very Cool. Ok, the adventure is nearly complete, the solutions are found, all that is left is to collect the crystals at the back of the cave. Recapping the RT/HT-11 saga ... Overview, I've been recussitating an H-11 with dual H27 8" floppy drives into working condition. This constitutes the first complete working example of a PDP-11 in my collection. The system consists of a M7270 w/FIS, M8044-Dx, H-11-5 serial, H-11-2 parallel, and H-11-Z floppy card. This system was picked up at a local auction in two lots (one the H11 the other the H27), the cable to the H27 had been cut off. After taking apart the system, verifying the operation of the PSU, I put together the minimum system (CPU, memory, and serial card) and powered it up. I got the ODT prompt and that was cool. But I had no software for the machine. I then saw an advertisement for an H-11 with software that was near by and asked if I could copy his disks. He said ok, and off I went box of disks in hand. Only to find they were the wrong type. I scrounged a couple of mangy disks and managed to get the HT-11B distribution disk and a disk called "DCOPY" copied. The disk labelled DCOPY also included FORMAT so this was the disk to have. Next I got hold of the correct format disks from a fellow list member, and formatted them on my system. After formatting I tried to Dcopy them and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I suspected my drives. Round 2 with the H-11 software owner and I format 10 disks at his place and dcopy 10 volumes of software. One of which is the HT-11 distribution (RT-11V10A). Encountering problems I tried the PIP command "/K" which Megan's note described as a bad block scan. When I did this I found _lots_ of bad blocks on the disks. Very weird! The disk surfaces looked fine but I doubted Control Data Corp was going to honor their 5-year warranty :-) So I came home again late. At home I took the worst disk and used a tape/video demagnetizer on it and then tried to reformat it. Half the bad blocks went away! (now down to 12). A few more rounds of this and I finally got the technique perfectly. Disk Demagnetization: Take a stack of 1 or more but not more than 5 disks and place them on a flat surface. Run a demagnetizer horizontally and vertically over the disks starting beyond the edge of the disk, crossing the disk, and then passing over the opposite edge. Hold the Demagnetizer about 1/4" above the disks and move it around clockwise and anti-clockwise several times, then while moving it in circles, slowly lift it up until it is about 12" above the disks and turn it off. The whole operation should take about 20 - 30 seconds. Once I did this, the disks would format and scan with zero bad blocks and zero retrys (no marginal blocks either). To initialize a disk in RT/HT-11 (ver A or B) the following steps are used: 1) Format the disk. 2) Run PIP and type "DX1:/Z" (this will ask for confirmation) 3) From PIP type "DX1:/K" (this will scan for bad blocks) If you get through step 3 with no bad blocks and no retries you have a solidly formatted disk and it is ready for use. Another mystery was some of the programs on the disk, in particular: MACRO.SAV ASEMBL.SAV EXPAND.SAV Because on my disk MACRO quit into ODT and ASEMBL failed to interpret the macros correctly. In the DOC file for DCOPY that the author wrote, he gave the steps to reassemble DCOPY.MAC and they were: .R EXPAND *DCOPY=DCOPY .R ASEMBLE *DCOPY=DCOPY .R LINK *DCOPY=DCOPY It turns out that EXPAND is the "macro" part of the macro assembler, and MACRO is the RT-11 MACRO-11 assembler from V02 (it crashed on the V01 disk) Now with good media in hand, I make one more pilgrammage and I should have everything I need to really enjoy this system. Thank you everyone for your help, it has been invaluable! --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat May 1 17:07:45 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 added to the VCF Archives In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990501104516.009f54e0@mcmanis.com> <3.0.3.32.19990501085118.015a2c90@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990501150542.00b38d50@mcmanis.com> At 02:35 PM 5/1/99 -0800, you wrote: >Bah, it's a VAX, it should be running VMS. I totally fail to understand >why, especially now that licenses are free for hobbyist use, anyone would >want to run UNIX on a VAX! A system like that should be part of a nice VMS >cluster! Because to some of us VAX == UNIX ? I did my first UNIX port from a VAX780 running 4.x BSD to a DG machine. UCBVAX ran UNIX and all of the other Vaxen I had access to ran UNIX. The "cool" people hacked UNIX on the VAX, the "suits" used VMS and Datatrieve to print accounting records and such, what fun was that? --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 1 21:15:28 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 added to the VCF Archives In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501150542.00b38d50@mcmanis.com> References: <4.1.19990501104516.009f54e0@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: >Because to some of us VAX == UNIX ? I did my first UNIX port from a VAX780 >running 4.x BSD to a DG machine. UCBVAX ran UNIX and all of the other Vaxen >I had access to ran UNIX. The "cool" people hacked UNIX on the VAX, the >"suits" used VMS and Datatrieve to print accounting records and such, what >fun was that? OK, I see the problem is now, I'm not a big BSD fan, despite being a big UNIX fan. If I was a BSD fan then I'd probably be interested in having it running on one of my PDP-11's or VAXen, as it is I do have OpenBSD running on one of my Alpha's as VMS doesn't support what I need that system to do. Also, I can see where a production VMS system wouldn't be a lot of fun, but since I've got my own cluster I find it a blast to play with, and am currently playing around with a little programming, when I can find the time. Another downside of VMS is you can't just run down to the local bookstore to find books on it, although the local techinical bookstore does get a few in. Still as a OS nut, I maintain that VMS is the right OS for VAXen :^) Mainly because I like to run as many different OS's as possible, and I'm quite happy only running 2 or three flavors of UNIX. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 1 20:22:21 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: RT/HT-11 results In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501144241.009f0e30@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > So I came home again late. At home I took the worst disk and used a > tape/video demagnetizer on it and then tried to reformat it. Half the bad > blocks went away! (now down to 12). A few more rounds of this and I finally > got the technique perfectly. > > Disk Demagnetization: > Take a stack of 1 or more but not more than 5 disks and > place them on a flat surface. > > Run a demagnetizer horizontally and vertically over the disks > starting beyond the edge of the disk, crossing the disk, and then > passing over the opposite edge. > > Hold the Demagnetizer about 1/4" above the disks and move it > around clockwise and anti-clockwise several times, then while > moving it in circles, slowly lift it up until it is about 12" > above the disks and turn it off. > > The whole operation should take about 20 - 30 seconds. This sounds like voodoo to me. There must be some point when you are lifting the demagnetizer away that the effects from the device are beneficial. Are you sure you need to swipe it vertically, then horizontally, then clockwise, then counterclockwise, then lift it away while swirling? Are you sure its not just one of those, or a combination of two that really make the disk better? Is this truly making the disk better or did the disk drive become amused watching you do all this and then just decide to work because you made it laugh? Have you performed one thing and then tried to format the disk to see if that one thing is what does it? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat May 1 20:50:22 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers Message-ID: <990501215022.20c01203@trailing-edge.com> >> Take a stack of 1 or more but not more than 5 disks and >> place them on a flat surface. >> >> Run a demagnetizer horizontally and vertically over the disks >> starting beyond the edge of the disk, crossing the disk, and then >> passing over the opposite edge. >> >> Hold the Demagnetizer about 1/4" above the disks and move it >> around clockwise and anti-clockwise several times, then while >> moving it in circles, slowly lift it up until it is about 12" >> above the disks and turn it off. >> >> The whole operation should take about 20 - 30 seconds. >This sounds like voodoo to me. There must be some point when you are >lifting the demagnetizer away that the effects from the device are >beneficial. The "lift it slowly away and then turn off" is an important point. This makes sure that the media really is demagnetized. If you turn it off while near the media, you can leave the media in a highly magnetized state. That said, 12 (or even 6) is way too many errors for a floppy disk. Cleaning the heads, re-aligning, or buying new media (there are lots of places that still sell 8" floppies) may be the real solution. >while swirling? Are you sure its not just one of those, or a combination >of two that really make the disk better? Is this truly making the disk >better or did the disk drive become amused watching you do all this and >then just decide to work because you made it laugh? You can have fun with large degaussers. For those with analog watches that aren't prized too highly, you can do some really neat tricks, such as making the run 60 times too fast (i.e. an hour every 60 seconds) or even making them run backwards! Tim. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat May 1 21:18:31 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers In-Reply-To: <990501215022.20c01203@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990501191231.00b5e7e0@mcmanis.com> At 09:50 PM 5/1/99 -0400, Tim wrote: >That said, 12 (or even 6) is way too many errors for a floppy disk. >Cleaning the heads, re-aligning, or buying new media (there are lots >of places that still sell 8" floppies) may be the real solution. The issue isn't with the disk I don't believe (I don't have an alignment disk to prove it so I can't be sure). The goal of demagnetizing is to recreate a uniform state of non-magnetism on the media. I remember that Jerry Pournelle used to toss disks that were no longer needed but couldn't be given away directly (because they had commercial software on them) into a bin with a couple of those huge "fishing" magnets. Once treated in this way they were not readable, and not usable until demagnetized. At the time it was explained that the erase heads write a narrower path than the read heads scan so if the track has been magnetized on the outside it can interfere with the reading and writing of a block. Then again, it could all be hogwash, but using the demagnetizer on the disks did the trick. Other empirical evidence was accumulated when the demagnetizer shut itself off while I was using it near the disk, (thermal shutdown to prevent meltdown I guess). That disk was unusable until the demagnetizer reset and I could use it more carefully. --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat May 1 21:29:02 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: RT-11 SJ vs FB Message-ID: <4.1.19990501192743.009e3d50@mcmanis.com> Ok, so on my distribution disk if I boot it up it comes up as RT-11 V20B SJ but if I boot DXMNTFB.SYS it comes up RT-11 V20B FB. What's the difference? Floating point? --Chuck From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 1 21:22:22 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers In-Reply-To: <990501215022.20c01203@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 May 1999 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > >This sounds like voodoo to me. There must be some point when you are > >lifting the demagnetizer away that the effects from the device are > >beneficial. > > The "lift it slowly away and then turn off" is an important point. > This makes sure that the media really is demagnetized. If you turn > it off while near the media, you can leave the media in a highly > magnetized state. So then is that all that's really required? > You can have fun with large degaussers. For those with analog watches > that aren't prized too highly, you can do some really neat tricks, such > as making the run 60 times too fast (i.e. an hour every 60 seconds) or > even making them run backwards! I saw that trick used on MacGyver once! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From mbg at world.std.com Sat May 1 22:15:25 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: RT-11 SJ vs FB Message-ID: <199905020315.AA06901@world.std.com> >Ok, so on my distribution disk if I boot it up it comes up as RT-11 V20B >SJ but if I boot DXMNTFB.SYS it comes up RT-11 V20B FB. What's the >difference? Floating point? SJ is the single-job monitor. One job is all you have, period. FB is the foreground-background monitor. You have two jobs. The foreground job is the higher-priority job. When it blocks, the background job gets a chance to run (actually, completion routines for the jobs are slightly higher than the jobs themselves). So, you can run a data collection program in the foreground, and the data reduction or storage program in the background. If you need to direct terminal input to the foreground, you type first, then type... To then have terminal input go to the background job, type . Later versions of RT-11 had foreground/background and up to 6 system jobs (with priorities in between background the foreground). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 1 22:26:09 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 added to the VCF Archives Message-ID: <199905020326.AA10735@world.std.com> The state (Qld, Australia) main roads department are selling a job lot of 16 x HP1000 A-series systems. http://www.qits.net.au/hp1000/ Are these the same HP 1000's that are listed in the Comprehensive Computer Catalog as being introduced in 1976? The pictures on the Main Roads Web page do not look that old. Phil in Brisbane, Australia - just a few km from that stash of HP1000's, but they are way out of my league. From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun May 2 06:18:52 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501191231.00b5e7e0@mcmanis.com> References: <990501215022.20c01203@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990502071852.0079e100@mail.wincom.net> At 07:18 PM 5/1/1999 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:50 PM 5/1/99 -0400, Tim wrote: >>That said, 12 (or even 6) is way too many errors for a floppy disk. >>Cleaning the heads, re-aligning, or buying new media (there are lots >>of places that still sell 8" floppies) may be the real solution. > >The issue isn't with the disk I don't believe (I don't have an alignment >disk to prove it so I can't be sure). The goal of demagnetizing is to >recreate a uniform state of non-magnetism on the media. > Yesterday one of our local industries was selling off some equipment to benefit Jr Acheivment, so I went down, found a 5 1/4" disk file with a bunch of disks, and was told I could have it for $ 2.00. The lady on the desk, however was determined no data could leave. I came home, returned with a bulk tape eraser and demagnitized them on the spot. However when I tried to format them with my trusty XT it spit them out as "can't read track 0" on both A and B drives. I formatted the disks successfully on a Compaq clone and a Commodore PC10, and now the XT will read them. Any ideas? Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Sun May 2 08:28:04 1999 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Sony CD Rom Drive Message-ID: <002701be949f$9d095ce0$1b3bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> I have found a Sony CDU 6100 external CDRom drove with interface card and cable. Circa 1988. Does anyone know where I could find a driver for this? Thanks, Hans From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun May 2 08:51:47 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers Message-ID: <990502095147.2420018c@trailing-edge.com> >> >This sounds like voodoo to me. There must be some point when you are >> >lifting the demagnetizer away that the effects from the device are >> >beneficial. >> >> The "lift it slowly away and then turn off" is an important point. >> This makes sure that the media really is demagnetized. If you turn >> it off while near the media, you can leave the media in a highly >> magnetized state. >So then is that all that's really required? The "rotate around at many different orientations" is also important for a thorough degaussing. Unlike electric charge, which doesn't have a direction, magnetization *does* have a direction. The really professional degaussers will automatically rotate and diminish the magnetic field in a pre-programmed sequence. These are very large, however, and cost lots more dollars than the ones you buy at Radio Shack. With many modern high-coercivity media, you can't do a really thorough job of degaussing with a small degausser in any event. They just don't make a large enough field. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun May 2 09:02:31 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers Message-ID: <990502100231.2420018c@trailing-edge.com> Chuck said: >At 09:50 PM 5/1/99 -0400, Tim wrote: >>That said, 12 (or even 6) is way too many errors for a floppy disk. >>Cleaning the heads, re-aligning, or buying new media (there are lots >>of places that still sell 8" floppies) may be the real solution. >The issue isn't with the disk I don't believe (I don't have an alignment >disk to prove it so I can't be sure). Then maybe it's the heads, or maybe it's dirt, or maybe it's just bad- quality media. In my experience, one or two bad blocks on a 8" floppy is acceptable. 6 or 12 is way too many, and indicates a more serious problem. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I don't like taking chances with data, and testing with new media and trashing questionable media is cheap and easy compared to replacing lost data. This is much more true with removable platter drives than with floppies! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun May 2 09:21:29 1999 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Sony CD Rom Drive In-Reply-To: <002701be949f$9d095ce0$1b3bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 May 1999, Olminkhof wrote: > I have found a Sony CDU 6100 external CDRom drove with interface card and > cable. Circa 1988. > > Does anyone know where I could find a driver for this? Some time ago I had a Sony CDU 100 drive with a CDB-200B i/f card, I was able to get it to work by downloading one of the drivers off Sony's web site, it was one of the cdu* drivers. Good Luck! Cheers Karl From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sun May 2 09:18:26 1999 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Nixdorf LK-3000 Message-ID: <001201be94a6$a54e32c0$94b520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Hi all, I have an LK-3000 and am in need of information. When I took the thingy appart to replace the NiCads I noticed that there was absolutly nothing in terms of CPU, RAM or ROM inside, only logic for the display and keypad. From this I deducted that the smarts must be inside of the module wich I didn't take apart since the label is placed on top of the screws. Does anyone has information as to what modules were availabe, any hardware architecture information, any general information. Thank you Francois --------------------------------- Note: New e-address: fauradon@mn.mediaone.net Visit the oh so neglected (but recently moved) sanctuary at: people.mn.mediaone.net/fauradon From edick at idcomm.com Sun May 2 10:36:39 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers Message-ID: <000a01be94b1$92a10160$0100c0a8@fuj03> Another pass through the bulk-erase procedure should do it. I've had lots of diskettes and tapes which were rejuvenated by a serious bulk-erase. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Fox To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Fun with degaussers >At 07:18 PM 5/1/1999 -0700, you wrote: >>At 09:50 PM 5/1/99 -0400, Tim wrote: >>>That said, 12 (or even 6) is way too many errors for a floppy disk. >>>Cleaning the heads, re-aligning, or buying new media (there are lots >>>of places that still sell 8" floppies) may be the real solution. >> >>The issue isn't with the disk I don't believe (I don't have an alignment >>disk to prove it so I can't be sure). The goal of demagnetizing is to >>recreate a uniform state of non-magnetism on the media. >> > Yesterday one of our local industries was selling off some equipment to >benefit Jr Acheivment, so I went down, found a 5 1/4" disk file with a >bunch of disks, and was told I could have it for $ 2.00. The lady on the >desk, however was determined no data could leave. I came home, returned >with a bulk tape eraser and demagnitized them on the spot. > However when I tried to format them with my trusty XT it spit them out as >"can't read track 0" on both A and B drives. I formatted the disks >successfully on a Compaq clone and a Commodore PC10, and now the XT will >read them. Any ideas? > > Regards > > Charlie Fox > > > Charles E. Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada > email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo > From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 2 11:19:28 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:49 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers Message-ID: <199905021619.AA03756@world.std.com> <"can't read track 0" on both A and B drives. I formatted the disks Message-ID: > <"can't read track 0" on both A and B drives. I formatted the disks > Message-ID: On Sun, 2 May 1999, Charles E. Fox wrote: > Yesterday one of our local industries was selling off some equipment to > benefit Jr Acheivment, so I went down, found a 5 1/4" disk file with a > bunch of disks, and was told I could have it for $ 2.00. The lady on the > desk, however was determined no data could leave. I came home, returned > with a bulk tape eraser and demagnitized them on the spot. > However when I tried to format them with my trusty XT it spit them out as > "can't read track 0" on both A and B drives. I formatted the disks > successfully on a Compaq clone and a Commodore PC10, and now the XT will > read them. Any ideas? For $2 you should've slapped the lady at the desk. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun May 2 12:30:19 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Nixdorf LK-3000 In-Reply-To: <001201be94a6$a54e32c0$94b520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 May 1999, Francois wrote: > I have an LK-3000 and am in need of information. > When I took the thingy appart to replace the NiCads I noticed that there was > absolutly nothing in terms of CPU, RAM or ROM inside, only logic for the > display and keypad. From this I deducted that the smarts must be inside of > the module wich I didn't take apart since the label is placed on top of the > screws. > Does anyone has information as to what modules were availabe, any hardware > architecture information, any general information. Many modules were made for it. There are the general purpose modules, like the Calulator, and I think there was a Computer module but I'm not certain (if there was then I don't have one but I want one). Of course its primary goal in life was to be a language translator, and I happen to have English-Spanish, English-Italian, English-Polish, English-Arabic, and probably a couple others that I forgot (I have one unit with the Arabic alphabet above the keys :) I have one carthridge that was already popped open, so I looked inside and found nothing extraordinary. Looks like a TI microcontroller of some sort and a ROM or two. But yes, the smarts are definitely in the modules. The actual handheld unit is really just a dumb terminal. I believe the Nixdorf LK-3000 is the first (uh-oh, there's that word again) handheld computer device, first introduced in 1978 or 1979. The NiCad batteries shouldn't need replacing. If you just stick it in a charger for a day then they should come back alive. The one I played with hadn't been on in probably a decade or two and it came up after I left it charging for a while. I used a 6V, 200ma power supply, center positive. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From post at netcity.ru Sun May 2 11:54:15 1999 From: post at netcity.ru (post@netcity.ru) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: HELP Message-ID: <4871.990502@netcity.ru> Dear Colleagues, As you know, now Russia has a deep financial and economical crisis. We are already several months have not receiving salary and our parents-pensioners have not receiving pensions. In consequence our children constantly are hungry and to be illing. Therefore we decided apply to you with request to help us a little money in order that we could to buy the things of first necessity and food-stuffs for our children. We are very hope on any your help and looking forward to your reply. GOD will notice your true generosity. Your Russian friends, Mr. A. Petrosian. Kaluga. Russia. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 2 12:58:28 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers In-Reply-To: <990502100231.2420018c@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 2, 99 10:02:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1549 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990502/d1ca3cf3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 2 13:01:36 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501191231.00b5e7e0@mcmanis.com> from "Chuck McManis" at May 1, 99 07:18:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990502/bcd4056f/attachment.ksh From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun May 2 13:57:15 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers Message-ID: <990502145715.20c012bf@trailing-edge.com> >> Then maybe it's the heads, or maybe it's dirt, or maybe it's just bad- >> quality media. In my experience, one >> or two bad blocks on a 8" floppy is acceptable. 6 or 12 is way too many, >> and indicates a more serious problem. >I would start investigating if there are _any_ bad blocks... One or two are OK, if they get mapped out. The I/O Exerciser (IOX) under RSX is very good at finding flaky blocks, as is FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY/PATTERN: under RT-11. >> Maybe I'm just paranoid, but >> I don't like taking chances with data, and testing with new media and >Agreed. My data is a lot more valuable than the price of a floppy >Problem is that getting known-good 8" disks is non-trivial now. Computer >shops just don't stock them... 8" Floppies are available from many mail- order sources in the US, most notably direct from Imation (used to be 3M), and I've lived in neighborhoods that had retailers still stocking them. >> trashing questionable media is cheap and easy compared to replacing >> lost data. This is much more true with removable platter drives than >> with floppies! >Eh? Floppies are a lot cheaper than hard disk packs in my experience... But a dirty platter can wreck a lot more than your data (such as your heads) when they *do* crash. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 2 14:08:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers In-Reply-To: <990502145715.20c012bf@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 2, 99 02:57:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1803 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990502/a62ce521/attachment.ksh From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun May 2 14:19:46 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers Message-ID: <990502151946.20c012bf@trailing-edge.com> >> >Problem is that getting known-good 8" disks is non-trivial now. Computer >> >shops just don't stock them... > >> 8" Floppies are available from many mail- >> order sources in the US, most notably direct from Imation (used to >You're lucky. I've not seen them in UK catalogues for at least 5 years :-(. And even more unfortunately for you, http://store.imation.com/ doesn't sell outside the US. When I was in Canada I got around this by having a US shipping and billing address, but it's a bit further of a drive for those in the UK :-(. Have you had any luck from the sources listed in the comp.os.cpm FAQ? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From mbg at world.std.com Sun May 2 15:05:24 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: RT-11 SJ vs FB Message-ID: <199905022005.AA02229@world.std.com> > FB is the forground background monitor > (spooling to printer is a good background task! Actually, the print queue manager would be running as a foreground task... >Lator versions will have: > > BM batch monitor (for a batch based system) Batch support is a conditional assembly of any of the monitors. There is no one specific batch monitor. (And the handler name is BA). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sun May 2 15:24:24 1999 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Nixdorf LK-3000 Message-ID: <000801be94d9$c57efb00$93b520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> The module I have is the notepad one and I've been trying to find a manual (or copy) for it as well as for the main unit. >Many modules were made for it. There are the general purpose modules, >like the Calulator, and I think there was a Computer module but I'm not >certain (if there was then I don't have one but I want one). Of course >its primary goal in life was to be a language translator, and I happen to >have English-Spanish, English-Italian, English-Polish, English-Arabic, and >probably a couple others that I forgot (I have one unit with the Arabic >alphabet above the keys :) Do you have any spare module? >I have one carthridge that was already popped open, so I looked inside and >found nothing extraordinary. Looks like a TI microcontroller of some sort >and a ROM or two. But yes, the smarts are definitely in the modules. The >actual handheld unit is really just a dumb terminal. Any actual info on the pinout of the cartridges? It seems like this unit has hacking potential... >I believe the Nixdorf LK-3000 is the first (uh-oh, there's that >word again) handheld computer device, first introduced in 1978 or 1979. The dates I found indicated 1975. >The NiCad batteries shouldn't need replacing. If you just stick it in a >charger for a day then they should come back alive. The one I played with >hadn't been on in probably a decade or two and it came up after I left it >charging for a while. I used a 6V, 200ma power supply, center positive. The NiCads in mine had started to run (whitish crysltals all over the bottom of the case) that's why I had to replace them. Francois From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun May 2 12:30:40 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Great Find ! In-Reply-To: <19990428134326.22455.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <199905022128.RAA22857@smtp.interlog.com> On 28 Apr 99 at 6:43, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Doing a casual dumpster dive this eve and found a box with > > > > Vic-1520 Colour Printer Plotter. NIB including manual and cables. Unopened > > tube containing the 4 colour nibs. Dont know if they're dried out but > > they're water-based. > > Huh? My 1520 uses ballpoint nibs. > I never opened the sealed tube of nibs. The specs in the manual said it was a water-based ink. > Does anyone have any software for this? Somewhere on a disk, I wrote > a BASIC program to plot a function that resembles a black-hole on a > spacetime grid (and the unknown mass coordinates for Starcross), but > I have never run across any other programs for this device. > > Does anyone out there have any software for it? (I don't recall seeing > any on ftp.funet.fi). > There was a bunch of BASIC program examples in the manual. > > What looks to be a 1/2 ht. 5 1/4 Apple ll floppy in a 1541 case usual All > > cable but with a different non-apple controller card inside ?? > > Please describe this more fully. The Spartan Mimic was "the" Apple ][ > emulator for the C-64. One of its "features" was a board that sat between > the drive cables and the 1541 PCB that used relays to cut over certain > signals, and also provided for a 20-pin Apple disk connector. You could > stick an Apple disk in the 1541, read it from the Apple side, then swap disks > and read a C= disk from the C-64 side. AFAIK, the 1541 board was not > required, except perhaps as a way to tap power (i.e., the Spartan board was > essentially an Apple Disk ][ to bare-drive interface/analog board. > It's mounted in a standard labeled C64 1541 case. Everything else is stripped out. Obviously a kit. The 20 pin connector is connected to a small 1 1/2" by 3 1/2 ' board which supplies power, control and data connections to the bare drive. The drive has the Apple latch and an activity lite. The only identifying mark is FDC525 which is obvious. There are 4 mounted chips, the most significant an 18pin MC 3470P 8237. > I was a beta-tester for the Mimic in, ISTR, 1986 or 1987. It was too little, > too late, for too much money. I did get to keep the unit. I still have the > case (empty) and the PSU (recycled into powering external SCSI disks), but > I can't seem to locate any of the innards (I think it died after a while). > > My "greatest" accomplishment with it was attaching a real Apple disk for > D0 and playing Spellbreaker on the Apple at the same time as Enchanter on > the C-64, using the same keyboard and monitor, switching between the two > CPUs when one was loading the next part of the game. The documentation > described being able to write programs on each CPU that could talk through > a register window and do some multiprocessing, but I never wrote any nor saw > any for it. > > Cool hardware. Dunno what you found, but it _might_ be a former part of one > of those. > > -ethan > Could be something like the Mimic. I'm going to dig out one of my A-lls and give it a try with a Disk ll card and a C64 disk. Cautiously of course. If it requires a C64 card it'll go in my " awaiting...." bin > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun May 2 17:08:01 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: FA: Amdek Color Monitor. In-Reply-To: <01be36b5$d40c29e0$948ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: >I have an old Amdek color composite monitor with a built-in speaker/amp. > >I no longer have any use for it, and it's currently just taking up space. > >I will take ANY offer + shipping for it. I suggest you try for a local buyer. I tell people they make very nice secondary monitors for TV in a AV system, really very handy. Good for games too, one of my Apple II color monitors is what we use for my sons nintendo playing. From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 2 17:15:48 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers Message-ID: <199905022215.AA08052@world.std.com> My experience as I still use them is BAD BLOCKS are bad news (media dying) or just a crunch from powering down with the disk in the drive. If the disk does not erase and format without bad blocks it's trash here. I use my CPM system to format 8" SD disks and failure is not common but in all cases where I've seen that the media was shedding and gumming the head so it's trash media and a head cleaning. IF your trying to salvage data from a dying disk then you apply different rules. Allison From donm at cts.com Sun May 2 17:46:37 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > demagnetized. At the time it was explained that the erase heads write a > > narrower path than the read heads scan so if the track has been magnetized > > on the outside it can interfere with the reading and writing of a block. > > On all drives, the erase head is _wider_ than the R/W head. That's a > simplification, as actually the R/W head erases the middle of the track, > but what matters is that the drive erases a wider track than it reads or > writes. > > It has to. However carefully you make and align a drive there will be > _some_ positioning errors. And if you write a narrow track than you read, > you'll end up _always_ reading a mixture of what you've just written and > what was there before. > > -tony > Which is, of course, a major cause of problems in reading a 360k disk that has been over written as a 360k but in a 1.2mb drive. - don From fmc at reanimators.org Sun May 2 18:31:58 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 16 x HP1000 A-series systems In-Reply-To: "Phil Guerney"'s message of Sun, 2 May 1999 18:10:33 +1000 References: <008501be9473$48316860$f70e64cb@default> Message-ID: <199905022331.QAA19501@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Phil Guerney" wrote: > The state (Qld, Australia) main roads department are selling a job lot of 16 > x HP1000 A-series systems. > > http://www.qits.net.au/hp1000/ > > Are these the same HP 1000's that are listed in the Comprehensive Computer > Catalog as being introduced in 1976? No. Those are probably the 1000 M, E, and F-series and are basically 21MX processors with the "HP1000" name applied. The A-series are later models. A600s were introduced in 1983, A400s in 1987 or 1988. I think they're largely compatible (e.g. they share a lot of the same peripheral I/O cards with the older 2100-family machines, and I think the processor has largely the same instruction set) but they're mostly smaller and faster. > - just a few km from that stash of HP1000's, but they are way out of my > league. Get some friends to help? -Frank McConnell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 2 17:49:14 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Great Find ! In-Reply-To: <199905022128.RAA22857@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 2, 99 05:30:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990502/61721f70/attachment.ksh From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun May 2 10:20:42 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 16 x HP1000 A-series systems References: <008501be9473$48316860$f70e64cb@default> <199905022331.QAA19501@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <001901be94af$5b9dabc0$f17d38cb@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank McConnell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 9:01 AM Subject: Re: 16 x HP1000 A-series systems > "Phil Guerney" wrote: > > The state (Qld, Australia) main roads department are selling a job lot of 16 > > x HP1000 A-series systems. > > > > http://www.qits.net.au/hp1000/ Nice, shame they are so far off. I'm in South Australia, about a 900 miles away. I'd be able to take a couple, but the freight on the whole lot would kill me. > Get some friends to help? Anyone on the list in the South East QLD - Northern NSW areas that could help rescue these? Otherwise the scrap dealers will get 'em for sure... Geoff Roberts VK5KDR Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun May 2 20:45:50 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: scanning in pages Message-ID: <199905030145.BAA22884@thorin.cs.umn.edu> I've started trying to scan in some pdp8/e data sheets. Before I scan in more pages, i'd appreciate any comments on what little i've already scanned in (one scan of a pdp8/e that is obviously too big, and two pages of data on a CESI pdp-8 processor replacement board). I plan to scan in more of those CESI information sheets on boards that they made for use in the PDP8/e computer. Is this the best way to do this, or is there a better way? http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/pdp8_cesi.html -Lawrence LeMay From jhfine at idirect.com Sun May 2 20:49:13 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: RSX to RT-11 OBJ file format Message-ID: <372D0099.F01826FC@idirect.com> I would like some help. I have a very old version of ODT.OBJ from an RSX-11 system. I MUST use this same old version to reproduce an old executable file, but I want to LINK under RT-11. The other file is in a source MAC file which does not use any system calls, so I can use RT-11 to run MACRO.SAV and produce a FOO.OBJ from the source file. BUT, the ODT.OBJ file has the RSX-11 file format for RSX-11 and I can't do the LINK under RT-11. Can anyone suggest a way to convert it to an RT-11 file format? NOTE: I am not asking about the file structure of the directory, but the actual file format of ODT.OBJ itself. I can attach ODT.OBJ as a file for anyone who might be able to send me back the other version? It is already on a floppy with an MS-DOS file structure and I just used PUTR to copy it the the RT-11 system, but can't do the LINK under RT-11 and I don't want to switch to RSX-11. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From cfandt at netsync.net Sun May 2 20:58:37 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 16 x HP1000 A-series systems In-Reply-To: <001901be94af$5b9dabc0$f17d38cb@helpdesk> References: <008501be9473$48316860$f70e64cb@default> <199905022331.QAA19501@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <4.1.19990502214328.00a7b410@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:50 AM 5/3/99 +0930, Geoff Roberts said something like: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Frank McConnell >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 9:01 AM >Subject: Re: 16 x HP1000 A-series systems > > >> "Phil Guerney" wrote: >> > The state (Qld, Australia) main roads department are selling a job lot >of 16 >> > x HP1000 A-series systems. >> > >> > http://www.qits.net.au/hp1000/ > >Nice, shame they are so far off. I'm in South Australia, about a 900 miles >away. >I'd be able to take a couple, but the freight on the whole lot would kill >me. Hi Geoff, Have any friends/family/aquaintences/etc. going to/from SEQLD who might be able to put at least one system in their load? It's like a shuttle transport. Sort-of what some of my Teletype collector colleagues have been brainstorming for moving large items cross-country in the States. Just a suggestion . . . > >> Get some friends to help? > >Anyone on the list in the South East QLD - Northern NSW areas that could >help rescue these? Otherwise the scrap dealers will get 'em for sure... Good luck. I see you've got until 14 May to get in on it. Somebody would have to get the whole lot though as that's a stipulation that QMR states first :-/ Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun May 2 21:19:19 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: antiques-trs80,microbee+apple2e(nsw australia) (fwd) Message-ID: Found on the net. Heads up for the funny sounding folks in Australia. Please reply to original sender. Reply-to: cruffels@ozemail.com.au ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Newsgroups: aus.ads.forsale.computers.used,comp.sys.tandy,comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.apple2,comp.sys.apple2.marketplace Subject: antiques-trs80,microbee+apple2e(nsw australia) From: cmcconne@ozemail.com.au (Chris McConnell) Reply-To: cruffels@ozemail.com.au (erina hs) hello erina high school on the central coast is in the process of clearing out several storerooms and in the process has quite a number of old computers it would be happy to see go to good homes. if you interested see below and make an offer - any unreasonable offer will be considered and quickly accepted though obviously we reserve the right to wait a few days in case a better offer comes in. the only limitation we have is you must collect them yourself. most are in working condition but no guarentees can be made and there is little or no software or manuals included. TRS - 80's 2 - TRS-80's probably model 1: separate keyboard/cpu, monitor and power supply (no tapedecks) 2 - TRS-80's definitely model 111: single units with various configurations (one with and one without floppy drive but no tapedecks) MICROBEE 16 - 32k MICROBEE's from a network: keyboard/cpu, monitor and associated cabling (but no tapedecks) 1 - 128k MICROBEE: with floppy drive, monitor, 20meg hardrive, network connection box, dp80 printer, graphics tablet, 20 meg tape/hardrive backup and sundry connections/cabling APPLE 2 - APPLE 2e's: with floppy drive, 128k memory/80 columns, super serial card and green screen monitors 2 - APPLE 2e's: with double floppy drives, 128k memory/80 columns, super serial card and color monitors regards erina hs -- end of forwarded message -- -- Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun May 2 22:43:19 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fortran conquered but whither C? Message-ID: <4.1.19990502203002.00a3db80@mcmanis.com> Ok, we're cooking now. I've got Fortran IV running on my HT-11 system (with FIS support no less!) and compiled the DEMO.FOR program into DEMO.SAV. That was pretty neat, but now I'd like to get DECUS C running on this thing. I found DECUS C on Tim's web site (cool) but I suspect it won't run on V2. Is there anyway to check (except for ?ILL-EMT? :-)) --Chuck From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun May 2 21:48:55 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Great Find ! In-Reply-To: References: <199905022128.RAA22857@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 2, 99 05:30:40 pm Message-ID: <199905030646.CAA27654@smtp.interlog.com> On 2 May 99 at 23:49, Tony Duell wrote: > > It's mounted in a standard labeled C64 1541 case. Everything else is stripped > > out. Obviously a kit. The 20 pin connector is connected to a small 1 1/2" by > > 3 1/2 ' board which supplies power, control and data connections to the bare > > drive. The drive has the Apple latch and an activity lite. The only identifying > > mark is FDC525 which is obvious. There are 4 mounted chips, the most > > significant an 18pin MC 3470P 8237. > > > A 3740 is a well-known read amplifier, etc, for floppy drives. It was > used on a lot of 5.25" units. > > I've just dug out the schematic of the Apple Disk II and it uses a 3740 > as the read amplifier. The other obvious chips are a CA3146 transistor > array (write driver), a ULN2003 (stepper driver, etc) and a 74LS125 > (3-state buffer). Do those match up with the ones in your unit? > > -tony > BINGO ! The only variance is a CA3086 instead of a 3146. I just checked a "parts" Disk ll and it has your line up. The card is much bigger tho and also has the Apple logo Disk ll analogue card marking. So it would seem to be a 1/2 ht. Disk ll in a 1541 case. I was hoping for something more exotic, but wha' tha' hell. Thanks Tony ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From cfandt at netsync.net Mon May 3 07:22:42 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: scanning in pages In-Reply-To: <199905030145.BAA22884@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <4.1.19990503081534.00a92660@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 01:45 AM 5/3/99 +0000, Lawrence LeMay said something like: >I've started trying to scan in some pdp8/e data sheets. Before I scan in >more pages, i'd appreciate any comments on what little i've already >scanned in (one scan of a pdp8/e that is obviously too big, and two >pages of data on a CESI pdp-8 processor replacement board). > >I plan to scan in more of those CESI information sheets on boards that >they made for use in the PDP8/e computer. Is this the best way to do this, >or is there a better way? > > http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/pdp8_cesi.html Because the font size on the data pages is large enough the 100 dpi scan is readable and it works for me. Any higher scan rate would raise the scan file size. I really love the front panel scan! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon May 3 07:36:41 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fortran conquered but whither C? Message-ID: <990503083641.24200191@trailing-edge.com> >Ok, we're cooking now. I've got Fortran IV running on my HT-11 system (with >FIS support no less!) and compiled the DEMO.FOR program into DEMO.SAV. That >was pretty neat, but now I'd like to get DECUS C running on this thing. >I found DECUS C on Tim's web site (cool) but I suspect it won't run on V2. >Is there anyway to check (except for ?ILL-EMT? :-)) According to CC.DOC, part of the DECUS C documentation, about the minimum RT-11 systems it might run on: ** This compiler has been built and used under RT-11 V3B and V4. ** It has run on a PDP-11/34, a PDP-11/05 and on PDT150 systems. So it might not work under your V2-ish system. Then again, it might work! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From cfandt at netsync.net Mon May 3 08:01:42 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Possible equipment for NADCOMM (IBM 029 punch) Message-ID: <4.1.19990503084002.00a8ce40@206.231.8.2> Okay, here's a msg for you folks who want an IBM 029 card punch. It's available in Indianapolis. Please contact Joe Montano to obtain it. Act on it ASAP as his boss may get rid of it soon. And no, I didn't simply forward the msg to the list without first recalling exactly what the machine in question was (in ref. to that DECMATE embarassment to me a few days ago . . . :-\ ) I've USED this type machine so know there *may* be belts inside of it ;) I have asked Joe, thru NADCOMM, to give a bit more info. He sent a little trying to compare it to a Teletype model 28 which only a few of us on ClassicCmp know. NADCOMM is the North American Data Communications Museum located in Fallbrook, CA. >Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 07:12:55 -0700 >To: North American Data Communications Museum Staff:;, > Christian Fandt >From: Don Robert House >Subject: Fwd: Possible equipment for NADCOMM > >I asked Joe about size and weight. He is going to get back to me. >Any comments regarding this equipment? > >Thanks, >Don > >>From: "Joe Montano" >>To: >>Subject: Possible equipment for you. >>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:08:10 -0500 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>X-Priority: 3 >> >>Don, >> >> I know that isn't exactly Teletype equipment but... >> >> I have come across an IBM model 29 card punch and was wondering if you >>might like it for the museum, otherwise it is dumpster bait. >> >> It came out of the Indianapolis Ameritech office and has sat in our >>company's warehouse ever since. >> >>Let me know. >> >>Joe >>N9VMO >> <<<<<< Follow-up msg from later in the day 2 May: >>>>>>>> >Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:01:48 -0700 >To: Christian Fandt >From: Don Robert House >Subject: Fwd: Re: Possible equipment for NADCOMM >Cc: "Joe Montano" , > North American Data Communications Museum Staff:; > >Chris, > >Would you help us find a home for this card punch. None of us want this >item going to the dumpster. > >Thanks, > >Don > >>From: "Joe Montano" >>To: "Don Robert House" >>Subject: Re: Possible equipment for NADCOMM >>Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:09:57 -0500 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>X-Priority: 3 >> >>Don, >> >>This unit is definitely NOT as heavy as a 28 as I had no problem lifting up >>the HEAVY end. I would est. the weight as closer to 100 lbs. and maybe a >>little more but not much more. >> >>It is about the size of a small child's desk with it being deeper than a 28 >>but not quite as long. >> >>I feel that it most definitely should go to some sort of museum or >>collection but I do not have any connections and I figured that you would, >>and I was right. >> >>Yes, the unit is still in the Indy area and I have told the boss that there >>is someone interested in it for their museum/collection so he is holding on >>to it for a little while longer but I can't guarantee(sp?) how long his good >>nature will hold out. >> >> >>If you could please fwd. this on to whoever you think might be interested in >>it, we would all be grateful. >> >> >>TTFN >>Joe >> -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon May 3 08:58:57 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: scanning in pages Message-ID: <19990503135857.27064.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> > Upon the date 01:45 AM 5/3/99 +0000, Lawrence LeMay said something like: > >I plan to scan in more of those CESI information sheets on boards that > >they made for use in the PDP8/e computer. Is this the best way to do this, > >or is there a better way? > > > > http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/pdp8_cesi.html I have a hazy memory of CESI, but I never heard about replacement PDP-8 CPU boards before. Besides the obvious issue of cost, why were these made? I can see that with a 1.2uS cycle time, it's like a hex-high KK8E, leaving you lots of room for peripherals, but is that the only benefit? Did they integrate any I/O into the CPU module? What's the 40-pin connector at the top of the board for? As for scanning issues, I'm not one of those people to harp on bandwidth since I feed off of a cable modem. I'm personally fond of compressed TIFF files or PDF for B&W, and depending on if the document is for screen or printer 75dpi to 300dpi for regular scans. Thanks, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From guerney at uq.net.au Mon May 3 09:40:20 1999 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Australian collectors - any takers for 1 or more HP1000A? Message-ID: <00dc01be9573$55a050a0$6e0a64cb@default> STRICTLY IF there are enough definite takers for HP1000A units being sold off by tender by the QLD DMR (see http://www.qits.net.au/hp1000/ ), then I am prepared to act as a Brisbane staging post. According to Frank McConnell (see thread "16 x HP1000 A-series systems") these machines are 1983-1988 vintage. And they will be heavy. I have communicated off-list already with Geoff Roberts - anyone else? Although the closing date for a bid is 14 May, I am leaving town for two weeks holiday on 8 May, so any bid from me will have to go in by fax this Friday at the latest. I certainly can not hang on to more than one of these myself, so I will only go ahead with a bid if I am sure that I will not be holding them for long or our of pocket for long. Really, I am offering just in case I can be of help here to people who want something less than the full lot, when they would otherwise go to the recyclers. The cost each will be 1/16th of the total bid plus freight from DMR to me, then freight from me to you. I would expect a successful bid to be in the range $100-$500 but suggestions welcome (such as what is the Australian scrap value of them?). Please reply ASAP. Phil Brisbane. From Jgzabol at aol.com Mon May 3 11:03:11 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed Message-ID: <404700b4.245f22bf@aol.com> Hi all, I would like to connect a Plessey disk drive to a PDP11 RK11-D controller. The drive has a fixed platter and a removable platter, compatible to RK05 I believe, and these numbers on it: Plessey 3468-0231 PMDD/11B 700540-200217D It has a 42 pin MRA 42 S mating connector, and same with a terminator. I believe the 42 pin should be a Drive Bus, to be connected with standard Unibus cable to controller slot 2A/2B. Question: Would anyone have a maintenance manual for the Plessey drive available ? Short of that, maybe the pinout of the connector, so that I can make the cable ? Of course, reverse engineering of the disk electronics should reveal the pinout/RK11 compatibility, but having the docs just would save a lot of work and be more reassuring ! Thanks and regards John G. Zabolitzky From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Mon May 3 11:26:29 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Looking for Intel pds Prom programming software In-Reply-To: <404700b4.245f22bf@aol.com> Message-ID: I'm trying to put together a Prom Programming station based on the iPDS (Intel's Isis luggable) computer. I've managed to locate the OS, and some applications but am still in need of the Prom programming software. I think it was titled 'IPPS'. Anybody else out there have some of this very old Intel stuff? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 3 11:52:43 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: CESI PDP-8 CPU In-Reply-To: <19990503135857.27064.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990503095113.00aeae70@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 06:58 AM 5/3/99 -0700, Ethan wrote: >... What's the 40-pin connector at the top of the board for? The PDP-8/a's programmers panel I'd guess. And yes CESI did make these boards, I saw one in an 8/A that I looked at. At first I thought it was a disk controller or something and that someone had swiped the CPU out of the box! --Chuck From elvey at hal.com Mon May 3 12:12:45 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Fun with degaussers In-Reply-To: <990502095147.2420018c@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <199905031712.KAA00537@civic.hal.com> CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > The "rotate around at many different orientations" is also > important for a thorough degaussing. Unlike electric charge, which > doesn't have a direction, magnetization *does* have a direction. > Hi Although there is a direction issue with magnetized materials, I have found that simple DC type erasing works well on floppies. I had similar problems when reformatting floppies for a different type of machine. What I did to erase was to put the floppies on a metal surface ( my refrigerator ) and then a piece of thin cardboard ( cereal box from on top of the refrigerator ). I used one of those super magnets from a disk servo drives and just dragged it once around the disk. I formatted it and it then worked without errors. I know from my audio tape days that this tends to reduce S/N but I also know that floppies tend to saturate so a slight DC bias isn't so bad. Dwight From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 3 14:52:37 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Nixdorf LK-3000 In-Reply-To: <000801be94d9$c57efb00$93b520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <199905031753.TAA26627@horus.mch.sni.de> Preface: I'm still in the process of getting Informations about it form some former Nixdorf development guys. > >Many modules were made for it. There are the general purpose modules, > >like the Calulator, and I think there was a Computer module but I'm not > >certain (if there was then I don't have one but I want one). Of course > >its primary goal in life was to be a language translator, and I happen to > >have English-Spanish, English-Italian, English-Polish, English-Arabic, and > >probably a couple others that I forgot (I have one unit with the Arabic > >alphabet above the keys :) Arabic Keyboard ? WAY cool - I have to see it before I can belive. > Do you have any spare module? Especialy Erabic ones ? > >I have one carthridge that was already popped open, so I looked inside and > >found nothing extraordinary. Looks like a TI microcontroller of some sort > >and a ROM or two. But yes, the smarts are definitely in the modules. The > >actual handheld unit is really just a dumb terminal. > Any actual info on the pinout of the cartridges? It seems like this unit has > hacking potential... Maybe now, back then it was _quite_ expensive. > >I believe the Nixdorf LK-3000 is the first (uh-oh, there's that > >word again) handheld computer device, first introduced in 1978 or 1979. > The dates I found indicated 1975. Nop, Salam is more correct. Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jfoust at threedee.com Mon May 3 12:59:01 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990503125901.00fa99c0@vpwisfirewall> is a repository of video clips of television commercials, including a category of "Classic videogames" from the 80s, including Atari, Coleco, Mattel and other computers. Frames-capable browser and Real player required. - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 3 14:06:36 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Looking for Intel pds Prom programming software In-Reply-To: References: <404700b4.245f22bf@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990503140636.2197e634@intellistar.net> George, Does it take the same software that the MDS systems take? I have one with the Eprom burner so the software should be there too. It's on 8" disks though. I've never heard of a portable Isis computer. Tell me more. Mine is only portable if you have a truck! Joe At 09:26 AM 5/3/99 -0700, you wrote: >I'm trying to put together a Prom Programming station based on the iPDS >(Intel's Isis luggable) computer. I've managed to locate the OS, and some >applications but am still in need of the Prom programming software. I >think it was titled 'IPPS'. > >Anybody else out there have some of this very old Intel stuff? > >George Rachor > > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com >United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon May 3 14:28:08 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials Message-ID: <990503152808.20c01337@trailing-edge.com> > is a repository of video clips > of television commercials, including a category of "Classic videogames" > from the 80s, including Atari, Coleco, Mattel and other computers. "Biddy Biddy? Biddy Biddy?" IIRC, this is Martian for "Supper's Ready" during a game of Asteroids. Do I remember correctly? Tim. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 12:47:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Great Find ! In-Reply-To: <199905030646.CAA27654@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 3, 99 02:48:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990503/0f3e0b5d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 3 12:51:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed In-Reply-To: <404700b4.245f22bf@aol.com> from "Jgzabol@aol.com" at May 3, 99 12:03:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1093 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990503/d7ef0462/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon May 3 15:23:29 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed In-Reply-To: <404700b4.245f22bf@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 1999 Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > > I would like to connect a Plessey disk drive to a PDP11 RK11-D controller. > > The drive has a fixed platter and a removable platter, compatible to RK05 I > believe, and these numbers on it: > Plessey 3468-0231 > PMDD/11B > 700540-200217D If this is the one I'm thinking you have, it is more like an RL02, RK05s are front-loading. This is the "take the bottom off the pack, put it on the spindle, and put the bottom over the top of the pack" type... no? If so, I belive I have the service docs on it... must wait to get home tonite to see for sure. I gave a PDP 11/04 system to a Listmember which had a pair of these attached. I have written him offering copies of these dosc but so far only silence has returned to me..... HINT HINT you know who you are. Anyway.. (snip) > > Question: Would anyone have a maintenance manual for the Plessey drive > available ? Short of that, maybe the pinout of the connector, so that I can > make the cable ? I can copy this as well for any others with the drive in question... let me know. I will post the exact model the docs are for this evening. Cheers John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon May 3 15:58:45 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990503125901.00fa99c0@vpwisfirewall> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 1999, John Foust wrote: > is a repository of video clips > of television commercials, including a category of "Classic videogames" > from the 80s, including Atari, Coleco, Mattel and other computers. > Frames-capable browser and Real player required. Great archive! But you'd think they could've done a better job digitizing the clips. It looks like they recorded them right off a TV screen with a digital camera. The sound is not the greatest. Still, a neat blast from the past (I wonder why I don't remember most of them...guess I spent most of my time playing outside) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 3 16:17:04 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials In-Reply-To: <990503152808.20c01337@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990503141532.03caccd0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 03:28 PM 5/3/99 -0400, Tim wrote: >"Biddy Biddy? Biddy Biddy?" IIRC, this is Martian for "Supper's >Ready" during a game of Asteroids. Do I remember correctly? I believe you are confusing it with the only "dialog" given to the midget in the robot suit in the ill fated series "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century", which I only watched religously so that I could stare at Darin Grey (sp?) in those form fitting jump suits. --Chuck From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon May 3 16:24:06 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990503141532.03caccd0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at May 3, 99 02:17:04 pm Message-ID: <199905032124.OAA11968@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 689 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990503/77170e9a/attachment.ksh From mtapley at swri.edu Mon May 3 18:42:39 1999 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Cores, light bulb goes on ... In-Reply-To: <199904290702.AAA03944@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: >My experience of (attempting) to cut/drill magnets is that they are >_very_ hard, and almost nothing will even mark them. Mine too. It is possible, but horrendous, to reverse the drill bit, get some abrasive slurry, and *grind* a hole through a magnet. You gotta need it pretty bad, and I'll lay odds no-one will build a core memory board this way. - Mark From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon May 3 14:42:19 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Saw at goodwill In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990429214548.48b75b30@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199905032335.TAA23526@mail.cgocable.net> At local goodwill place in Kingston, Ontario Canada... I saw this lonely black apple II series FD drive for H&B. But I don't see a black apple CPU itself anywhere, I think someone nabbed it. Good run for peecee parts today anyway. :-) Oh, complete PC jr with color monitor, power brick, real keyboard is there! Mike Ford, wondering about your replies my emails about the AST CPUID cpu cards? Take care everyone! Wizard email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From gene at ehrich.com Mon May 3 18:52:04 1999 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: Inquiry In-Reply-To: <01be92c6$18afb1e0$3c57ddcc@enduser> Message-ID: <4.1.19990503195108.009a1910@popmail.voicenet.com> At 11:58 PM 4/29/99 -0500, you wrote: > > I have a lot of the kid's computers, (Atari, Commodore, CoCo, etc), which > I am trying to keep alive. Does anyone know if I can substitute high > quality music tapes in place of computer tapes? Or where I can still > find computer cassette tapes for sale? > > Stephanie I would reply to Stephanie but she did not give her e-mail address. I have some for sale on my web site. gene@ehrich http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale Gene Ehrich PO Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 From zmerch at 30below.com Mon May 3 19:31:56 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990503141532.03caccd0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> References: <990503152808.20c01337@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990503203156.0093a450@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Chuck McManis had spoken clearly: >At 03:28 PM 5/3/99 -0400, Tim wrote: >>"Biddy Biddy? Biddy Biddy?" IIRC, this is Martian for "Supper's >>Ready" during a game of Asteroids. Do I remember correctly? > >I believe you are confusing it with the only "dialog" given to the midget >in the robot suit in the ill fated series "Buck Rogers in the 25th >Century", which I only watched religously so that I could stare at Darin >Grey (sp?) in those form fitting jump suits. Erm, not quite. Twiggy said "Diggy-Diggy," and IIRC, they actually gave him other non-word tidbits occasionally, but by the time I finally got the Sci-Fi channel, they've quit playing it. I have seen every episode several times, and consider myself quite the trivia buff of that series. (I also own the original book compounded from the original comic strip series... *quite* different from the show! ;-) Anyone remember Buck's *full* name, or his ship # (each shown only once during the series)? And... that was Erin Gray... who also played on "Silver Spoons." Have fun, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From max82 at surfree.com Mon May 3 18:27:32 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:50 2005 Subject: serial port multiplexer available Message-ID: I have available for a very short time (before it gets trashed by the school) a Gandalf MUX-2000 which allows a host system to control up to 15 serial ports via a single serial port. 1.2 * cost of shipping. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon May 3 19:32:44 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: scanning in pages In-Reply-To: <19990503135857.27064.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "May 3, 1999 06:58:57 am" Message-ID: <199905040032.AAA24607@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > > Upon the date 01:45 AM 5/3/99 +0000, Lawrence LeMay said something like: > > >I plan to scan in more of those CESI information sheets on boards that > > >they made for use in the PDP8/e computer. Is this the best way to do this, > > >or is there a better way? > > > > > > http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/pdp8_cesi.html All of the CESI documents have been scanned in, and are available at that web page. -Lawrence LeMay From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon May 3 20:22:29 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials Message-ID: <990503212229.20c0135c@trailing-edge.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Chuck McManis had spoken clearly: >>At 03:28 PM 5/3/99 -0400, Tim wrote: >>>"Biddy Biddy? Biddy Biddy?" IIRC, this is Martian for "Supper's >>>Ready" during a game of Asteroids. Do I remember correctly? >> >>I believe you are confusing it with the only "dialog" given to the midget >>in the robot suit in the ill fated series "Buck Rogers in the 25th >>Century", which I only watched religously so that I could stare at Darin >>Grey (sp?) in those form fitting jump suits. >Erm, not quite. Twiggy said "Diggy-Diggy," and IIRC, they actually gave him >other non-word tidbits occasionally, but by the time I finally got the >Sci-Fi channel, they've quit playing it. I think you're right. I distinctly remember (must've been 1982 or so) an Atari commercial with a family of aliens playing Asteroids on their 2600 when the mom comes in and tries to get them to eat by saying "Biddy Biddy? Biddy Biddy?". When was the Buck Rogers series originally on? Tim. From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 3 22:35:28 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Inquiry Message-ID: <001a01be95df$2824d260$0100c0a8@fuj03> If I were in your position, I'd try to get mechanically good cassettes rather than worrying about acoustically good tape. What's most likely to happen is that, over time cassette tape will lose chunks of emulsion from its mylar backing, or the mechanical parts will break or jam causing damage to the tape. The audio demands for computer use are not very stringent. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Gene Ehrich To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 6:03 PM Subject: Re: Inquiry >At 11:58 PM 4/29/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >> I have a lot of the kid's computers, (Atari, Commodore, CoCo, etc), which >> I am trying to keep alive. Does anyone know if I can substitute high >> quality music tapes in place of computer tapes? Or where I can still >> find computer cassette tapes for sale? >> >> Stephanie > > > >I would reply to Stephanie but she did not give her e-mail address. > >I have some for sale on my web site. > > > > > > gene@ehrich > http://www.voicenet.com/~generic >Computer & Video Game Garage Sale > >Gene Ehrich >PO Box 209 >Marlton NJ >08053-0209 From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon May 3 22:49:03 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question Message-ID: In taking inventory of my accumulated Unibus and Qbus cards, I have discovered an Emulex Unibus something. Researching it on the Web, I also discovered a place here in SoCal who advertise new, used and refurbed Emulex (and others) adadpters and devices: Fidelity Computing www.ficompinc.com and look under the 'Emulex' listings. There are Unibus SCSI cards for $400.. Anyway.. this particular Emulex Unibus board has the model number SCO210101-CXL sub number 4039 H. The abovementioned website lists a part number of SCO2 as a "Unibus Disk Controller" and has a price of $150, but that's all it says. The card has one 60 pin and two 36 pin connectors and has 12 18-pin proms along the left edge. Anyone have any pointers to info on this card? Or even better, manuals that I can bribe to have copied? I'd send this card in to Emulex, but it's warranty expired in September of 1985. :) Cheers John From eric at brouhaha.com Tue May 4 00:35:10 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990503203156.0093a450@mail.30below.com> (message from Roger Merchberger on Mon, 03 May 1999 20:31:56 -0400) References: <990503152808.20c01337@trailing-edge.com> <3.0.1.32.19990503203156.0093a450@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <19990504053510.29414.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Erm, not quite. Twiggy said "Diggy-Diggy," and IIRC, they actually gave him Sounded like "bee-dee bee-dee" to me. You'd think by the 25th century that they could make robots without speech impediments. From Jgzabol at aol.com Tue May 4 01:50:10 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed Message-ID: In einer eMail vom 03.05.99 21:14:20, schreibt Tony: << > > I would like to connect a Plessey disk drive to a PDP11 RK11-D controller. > > The drive has a fixed platter and a removable platter, compatible to RK05 I > believe, and these numbers on it: > Plessey 3468-0231 > PMDD/11B > 700540-200217D I saw (and did minor repair on) one of these about 8 years ago. It wasn't mine, and I never saw a service manual :-( > > It has a 42 pin MRA 42 S mating connector, and same with a terminator. I > believe the 42 pin should be a Drive Bus, to be connected with standard > Unibus cable to controller slot 2A/2B. I seem to remember that the connector is similar (maybe identical) to the Diablo Model 30 connector, which I do have the pinout of. I can post that if it would help. One thing I certainly remember is that it used 1-of-n selects (like an RK02/Diablo model 30) and that it could only be linked directly to an RK11-C controller. There was a Plessey paddleboard that went into the drive connector slot on an RK11-D and had a decoder chip (at least, maybe some other simple logic) on it to sort this out. -tony >> I would certainly appreciate the Diablo pinout - if the pin layout is the same, I would expect the signals to be the same , at least something easier to check stan starting from nothing ! Thanks John From Jgzabol at aol.com Tue May 4 01:57:58 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed Message-ID: <1a959f92.245ff476@aol.com> In einer eMail vom 03.05.99 21:26:58, schreiben Sie: << On Mon, 3 May 1999 Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > > I would like to connect a Plessey disk drive to a PDP11 RK11-D controller. > > The drive has a fixed platter and a removable platter, compatible to RK05 I > believe, and these numbers on it: > Plessey 3468-0231 > PMDD/11B > 700540-200217D If this is the one I'm thinking you have, it is more like an RL02, RK05s are front-loading. This is the "take the bottom off the pack, put it on the spindle, and put the bottom over the top of the pack" type... no? No, it is not, this _IS_ the front loading type. But I would believe tat if Plessey made several versions, they all might be rather similar as far as the interface is concerned. If so, I belive I have the service docs on it... must wait to get home tonite to see for sure. I gave a PDP 11/04 system to a Listmember which had a pair of these attached. I have written him offering copies of these dosc but so far only silence has returned to me..... HINT HINT you know who you are. Anyway.. (snip) > > Question: Would anyone have a maintenance manual for the Plessey drive > available ? Short of that, maybe the pinout of the connector, so that I can > make the cable ? I can copy this as well for any others with the drive in question... let me know. I will post the exact model the docs are for this evening. Cheers John >> If there is any relationship between the model you talk about and the model I have, I would certainly appreciate a copy ! regards John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 4 02:21:04 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Emulex board question" (May 3, 20:49) References: Message-ID: <9905040821.ZM1757@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 3, 20:49, John Lawson wrote: > Anyway.. this particular Emulex Unibus board has the model number > SCO210101-CXL sub number 4039 H. The abovementioned website lists > a part number of SCO2 as a "Unibus Disk Controller" and has a price > of $150, but that's all it says. > Anyone have any pointers to info on this card? Or even better, > manuals that I can bribe to have copied? This is an SMD drive controller. Is it a hex-height card or a quad? All my SC02s are quad-height Q-Bus controllers. An SC02 can handle two physical SMD drives. BTW, I think you mean one 60-pin and two 26-pin (not 36) connectors. There are several versions of the firmware for SC02s, emulating different DEC drives. I don't have my manuals to hand, but IIRC the -C version emulates RK06/7. Depending on the size of the attached physical drive(s), it will emulate several logical drives. You might find a manual at http:://rsxbbs.delconet.com/docs/emulex/ but the site doesn't seem to be up at the moment so I can't check :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 4 00:02:32 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: North Star Available Message-ID: <199905040902.FAA09150@smtp.interlog.com> This just turned up on our T3C site's bulletin board. Contact the sender NOT ME. The DNS is unresolved. If that causes problems reply from the site. Also an Osbourne offering is there. ciao larry NorthStar CPM computer W/Wooden Case Sunday, 02-May-99 20:59:10 Message: 207.71.48.30 writes: Have NORTHSTAR CPM computer in PERFECT condition--been in storage for over 10 years. Purchased approximately 10/81-82 (I think). I am the original buyer and used it for small business accounting for about 4 years. Getting ready to chunk it (clearing out a bunch of old attic-type stuff). Thought I would see if there was any interest in purchasing it before I dump it in to the trash Pat lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue May 4 10:18:56 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: WANG In-Reply-To: <19990425223452.27550.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <199905041319.PAA13424@horus.mch.sni.de> Today the last remains of Wang have vanished. Getronics, an Amsterdam based, Dutch company has bought Wang Global at one (US-)billion USD. So, if s.o. can put APPLE out of Business, all early small/mid size computer companies are gone. Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Tue May 4 08:22:28 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: 80s video game commercials In-Reply-To: <19990504053510.29414.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990503203156.0093a450@mail.30below.com> <990503152808.20c01337@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <199905041322.XAA04094@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 05:35 04/05/99 +0000, Eric Smith wrote: >> Erm, not quite. Twiggy said "Diggy-Diggy," and IIRC, they actually gave him > >Sounded like "bee-dee bee-dee" to me. You'd think by the 25th century that >they could make robots without speech impediments. Look, given that they were using a 1GHz PDP-8 on a chip with 8KW of memory, you're luck they got it to walk, let along talk and chew gum :-) The linux port was a real pain! Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From danburrows at mindspring.com Tue May 4 07:58:08 1999 From: danburrows at mindspring.com (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question Message-ID: <1cce01be9630$1ee17040$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> > Anyway.. this particular Emulex Unibus board has the model number >SCO210101-CXL sub number 4039 H. The abovementioned website lists >a part number of SCO2 as a "Unibus Disk Controller" and has a price >of $150, but that's all it says. > > The card has one 60 pin and two 36 pin connectors and has 12 >18-pin proms along the left edge. > > Anyone have any pointers to info on this card? Or even better, >manuals that I can bribe to have copied? > The SC02 is a Qbus SMD controller. The SC12 is the Unibus version. I glancing around I have a bunch of copies of the SC12 but only 1 on the SC02. Contact me off list and we can work something out for getting you a copy. Dan From emu at ecubics.com Tue May 4 08:31:52 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question Message-ID: <004e01be9632$8d704930$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Hi, -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 1:21 AM Subject: Re: Emulex board question >On May 3, 20:49, John Lawson wrote: > >> Anyway.. this particular Emulex Unibus board has the model number >> SCO210101-CXL sub number 4039 H. The abovementioned website lists >> a part number of SCO2 as a "Unibus Disk Controller" Nope, it is a Q-Bus ... think you mean one >60-pin and two 26-pin (not 36) connectors. There are several versions of >the firmware for SC02s, emulating different DEC drives. Emulates RL01 & RL02, or better said the RLV11/RLV12 controller. On bigger disks, the controller maps up to four logcal units per disk I don't have my > > http:://rsxbbs.delconet.com/docs/emulex/ > >but the site doesn't seem to be up at the moment so I can't check :-( probably never again :-(( BTW, if anybody know where to get some of the disks, that fits to this controller, i would be interested ... cheers, emanuel From danburrows at mindspring.com Tue May 4 08:58:06 1999 From: danburrows at mindspring.com (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question Message-ID: <1ce001be9636$3dbb2d70$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> >>60-pin and two 26-pin (not 36) connectors. There are several versions of >>the firmware for SC02s, emulating different DEC drives. > >Emulates RL01 & RL02, or better said the RLV11/RLV12 controller. On bigger >disks, the controller maps up to four logcal units per disk Correction - directly from the manual. RK06 or RK07 emulation RK611 >BTW, if anybody know where to get some of the disks, that fits to this >controller, I would be interested ... > I have some Ampex drives but they are not worth the shipping.. Look for one of the following males, models and they are directly supported with switch setting info in the manual. Amcodyne, 7110 Ampex, 165 , 165-210, 9160, DFR-932,964,996 Bal BD160 BASF 6173,6173 Century, T28,T302RM CDC 9412,9448-32,9448-64,9448-96,9445, 9457,9730-80,9762,9730-160,9766 Fujitsu 2294,2311,2312 Kennedy 5300-70,7300 Memorex 612-56,612-84 Mitsubishi 2860-25 NEC 2246,2257 Nissei NP30-120 Okidata 3305 Priam 3350,2050,3450,6650,7050,15450 SLI Sheyenne 3 & 4, MV116 Depending on the drive and configuration used determines if it will emulate an RK06 or an RK07. Dan From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue May 4 09:07:58 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question Message-ID: <19990504140758.18760.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- emanuel stiebler wrote: > >On May 3, 20:49, John Lawson wrote: > > > >> Anyway.. this particular Emulex Unibus board has the model number > >> SCO210101-CXL sub number 4039 H. The abovementioned website lists > >> a part number of SCO2 as a "Unibus Disk Controller" > > Nope, it is a Q-Bus ... > > think you mean one > >60-pin and two 26-pin (not 36) connectors. There are several versions of > >the firmware for SC02s, emulating different DEC drives. > > Emulates RL01 & RL02, or better said the RLV11/RLV12 controller. On bigger > disks, the controller maps up to four logcal units per disk > > BTW, if anybody know where to get some of the disks, that fits to this > controller, i would be interested ... The disks you are looking for are SMD disks - 60 pin digital cable for all drives, 26-pin data cable for each drive. Yours must support two physical units. I have used 14" (RA-81-sized) disks like the Fujitsu Eagle and have seen 5.25" disks, but never used them. I know that SMD disks are available in the 600Mb range. I don't know how small they get. I can't imagine how you'd map hundreds of megabytes into several dozen RL02 images, but in the interest of compatibility, I guess they'd have to do it. On VAXen and PDP-11's, I've always used a Systems Industries 9900 controller to attach Fuji Eagles (and some other sizes) to the Massbus. I have an SI Q-bus controller that appears to talk to the 9900 (dual 40-pin connectors), but I've never used it. I have KDA-50's now (and wish I had docs for the CS-21 SCSI card). Bottom line - SMD disks are hard to find, but they are out there. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue May 4 09:25:03 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question Message-ID: <990504102503.20c0135c@trailing-edge.com> >I have used 14" (RA-81-sized) disks like the Fujitsu Eagle Well, technically the Eagle is a 10.5" disk. Other Fujitsus, like the 2284, are really 14" (and they have a nice transparent cover over the HDA so you can see the disks spin and the heads seek...) > and have seen 5.25" >disks, but never used them. Most 5.25" SMD drives are rather modern and have data rates too high for the older Emulex (and other brand) SMD controllers. Newer Emulex SMD controllers, like the QD33 and QD34, don't have a problem with the high-data-rate SMD drives. Tim. From emu at ecubics.com Tue May 4 09:34:18 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question Message-ID: <009101be963b$47021bf0$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Hi again, -----Original Message----- From: Daniel T. Burrows To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Emulex board question > >>>60-pin and two 26-pin (not 36) connectors. There are several versions of >>>the firmware for SC02s, emulating different DEC drives. >> >>Emulates RL01 & RL02, or better said the RLV11/RLV12 controller. On bigger >>disks, the controller maps up to four logcal units per disk > > >Correction - directly from the manual. RK06 or RK07 emulation RK611 Correction, directly from the manual. RL01 or RL02 emulation ;-)) But serious, there are two version of the SC02 board. The SC02/L emulates the Rl01/Rl02 disks, and the SC02/C emulates the RK06/RK07 disks. Looks to me, that the big difference is in software, because both of these boards look very similar. cheers, emanuel From arfonrg at texas.net Tue May 4 09:58:07 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Saw at goodwill In-Reply-To: <199905032335.TAA23526@mail.cgocable.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19990429214548.48b75b30@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990504095807.0091f640@207.207.0.212> My old computer class was taught on two model 33's (to a HP2000) and a black Apple II. I always thought that the black apples were the correct color. What exactly is the significance of the black case??? Also, ther'e s PC jr for sale at Goodwill here in Austin. At 07:42 PM 5/3/1999 +0000, you wrote: >At local goodwill place in Kingston, Ontario Canada... > >I saw this lonely black apple II series FD drive for H&B. >But I don't see a black apple CPU itself anywhere, I think someone >nabbed it. > >Good run for peecee parts today anyway. :-) > >Oh, complete PC jr with color monitor, power brick, real keyboard is >there! > >Mike Ford, wondering about your replies my emails about the AST CPUID >cpu cards? > >Take care everyone! > >Wizard >email: jpero@cgocable.net >Pero, Jason D. > > ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue May 4 10:12:41 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Saw at goodwill Message-ID: <00d701be9640$8e541120$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> You wrote... >My old computer class was taught on two model 33's (to a HP2000) and a >black Apple II. And just where is that HP2000 today????? Jay West From arfonrg at texas.net Tue May 4 10:29:35 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Saw at goodwill In-Reply-To: <00d701be9640$8e541120$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990504102935.009ac470@207.207.0.212> >>My old computer class was taught on two model 33's (to a HP2000) and a >>black Apple II. > > >And just where is that HP2000 today????? My garage... JK (I wish!) The HP2000 was at "The Mathematics and Science Center" in north Henrico county... It was cool!!! They had a punched card machine, A big-darned HP plotter and some cool disc drives! That machine serviced all the schools in Henrico county and we all had those Model 33's (with punched tape) (I'd kill for one of those!) which had the acoustic coupled modems. Everyone dialed into the old HP. I loved that machine far more than the 'new' apple II. I played more star trek and made punched tape banners! sigh. I have no idea what happened to that old machine. ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue May 4 11:18:12 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Saw at goodwill Message-ID: <9f65b646.246077c4@aol.com> In a message dated 99-05-04 10:59:32 EDT, you write: > I always thought that the black apples were the correct color. What > exactly is the significance of the black case??? it's just a Bell+Howell version of the apple with some minor changes to it. functionally identical. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 4 11:38:23 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: FAQ: Black Apple (Was: Saw at goodwill In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990504095807.0091f640@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: > My old computer class was taught on two model 33's (to a HP2000) and a > black Apple II. > I always thought that the black apples were the correct color. What > exactly is the significance of the black case??? Apple had a hard time breaking into the school market. Two issues: school boards, etc. had never heard of the company, and any "computer" purchases were in the realm of "District Data Processing", not at the whim of educational staff. So, Apple cut a deal with Howl & Bellow. Thus, Apple computers were included in the B&H AV price lists, along with movie projectors, etc. Those hokie 500 series filmosounds cost enough that the microcomputers fit right in. [Yes, the filmosounds were nice. But compare with the much older J.A.N.!] Now, a school that wanted to buy a microcomputer could slide it past the board of ed by just burying it in the AV budget. In addition to being black, the black Apples that I've paid attention to had a non-detachable (theft-resistant) power cord, and a solid latch instead of velcro to impede access into the case. From lselinsk at emh1.lead.army.mil Tue May 4 12:00:33 1999 From: lselinsk at emh1.lead.army.mil (Michael Morar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: HP-7900A Disc Drives Message-ID: <000701be964f$a00334a0$527e86a0@tmaclay.jedmics.lead.army.mil> We have 7900's (about 20) in use on test systems still. We also have 7905's and 7906's. I maintain them. The platter package that goes in the 7900 is not the same as for the 7905/6 models. The outside casing looks the same, but the platter for the 7905/6 is about twice as thick as the one for the 7900 drive. Plus, the disk pack for the 7900 Drive has 24 hard sectors as indicated on the bottom of the platter. The 7905/6 disc pack has one notch on the center hub which is used for a soft sector configuration. Do not put the 7900 disc pack in the 7905/6 or vice versa. Michael Morar PS - I need some info on the A2 board of the HP-7900A disc drive. The A2 board has special solder terminals mounted on the board for connectors J1 and J4 thru J7. I need to find out who makes them. HP no longer has any info on the drive, and our service manual does not have a break down of these pins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990504/4bb2e01b/attachment.html From mtapley at swri.edu Tue May 4 13:28:26 1999 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 759 In-Reply-To: <199905010702.AAA05692@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: >r. said: >On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Huw Davies wrote: >The NeXTs don't even really have power switches. Command-command-~ is supposed to bring up a monitor through a non-maskable interrupt, into which you can enter the command ? for info on available commands. "halt" saves files to disk and gracefully halts the system. "mon" goes to the ROM monitor but does not gracefully halt the system. An emergency shutdown is available by pressing --. (on an ADB keyboard, use the command bar instead of the left command key). This will not power off the computer but will do a hard reset of the CPU. This does *not* result in a clean shutdown, and can damage an optical disk if it's in the middle of a write operation (so I hope you didn't just do it ;-) ). - Mark From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 4 12:57:25 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Saw at goodwill In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990504095807.0091f640@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > My old computer class was taught on two model 33's (to a HP2000) and a > black Apple II. > > I always thought that the black apples were the correct color. What > exactly is the significance of the black case??? It was just an OEM model produced for Bell&Howell, who then marketed them to schools. There are supposedly tons of them out there, but I've yet to run across one. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 13:14:00 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed In-Reply-To: from "Jgzabol@aol.com" at May 4, 99 02:50:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1507 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990504/b410725e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 4 12:53:48 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Inquiry In-Reply-To: <001a01be95df$2824d260$0100c0a8@fuj03> from "Richard Erlacher" at May 3, 99 09:35:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 997 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990504/12b044a1/attachment.ksh From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Tue May 4 16:16:56 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Altair, pfeh! I own a Univac. Message-ID: <199905042116.RAA27089@platy.cs.unc.edu> Well, okay, parts of one. Big parts. For now it is in storage. Guess I have to get a basement next. I'm not even sure exactly what I've got. It is from a Univac 9200. Looks like a line printer and control console in one very big box, about the size of desk, but maybe twice as tall. Switches & lights, and discrete transistors. It was the box that had the "Univac 9200" label on it, so maybe (hopefully) it is the CPU. When I move it from its current temporary home to a more permanent one, I'll get pix & details. There is another box that I didn't get, but may still end up with after its winner picks a few bits out of it. Seems _he_ actually has customers still running these things, and needs a few specific parts. So even if I get it, it won't be complete. But I can't complain, with those parts going to keep another Univac running. Also got a card punch, which I got home by partially disassembling it, to make it fit in my car. When I opened it up, I found a three ring binder labelled "Univac Servicing Documents" - schematics, mech drawings, all sorts of good stuff! So, anybody know anything about 9200's? A web search didn't turn up much. Introduced in June 1967, 8K of memory, that's about it. Bill. (Man, this is awesome!) From aknight at mindspring.com Tue May 4 16:43:43 1999 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Altair, pfeh! I own a Univac. In-Reply-To: <199905042116.RAA27089@platy.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990504174343.0080b4a0@mindspring.com> Hi everybody, At 05:16 PM 5/4/99 -0400, you wrote: >Well, okay, parts of one. Big parts. Indeed, Bill got some big parts. I was there, too, picked up a Univac 1710 card punch and a small card reader, and a ton (literally, I think) of other stuff - much of it which will likely be offered up to those of you out there in classic-computer-land. Anybody want a VAXstation??? >For now it is in storage. Guess I have to get a basement next. ... and then a dehumidifier, if you're gonna have a basement in North Carolina ... >I'm not even sure exactly what I've got. It is from a Univac 9200. >Looks like a line printer and control console in one very big box, >about the size of desk, but maybe twice as tall. Switches & lights, >and discrete transistors. It was the box that had the "Univac 9200" >label on it, so maybe (hopefully) it is the CPU. When I move it >from its current temporary home to a more permanent one, I'll get >pix & details. I poked my head inside and thought I saw what looked like a core memory array. Not sure, though. The 9200 console was really retro looking - great big switches and blinkenlights. I took some photos which I'll be happy to put on my web site or give Bill to put on his. There was also a Sperry*Univac V77, which Kevin has pointed out was a Varian machine. I can put some photos of that on my web site, too, if ya'll want to see them. >Also got a card punch, which I got home by partially disassembling >it, to make it fit in my car. When I opened it up, I found a three >ring binder labelled "Univac Servicing Documents" - schematics, >mech drawings, all sorts of good stuff! Thankfully, both Bill's and mine came with this manual. Looks like a treasure trove of info. Bill's punch is a 1610 - it wasn't obvious by comparing them what the difference was. >So, anybody know anything about 9200's? A web search didn't turn >up much. Introduced in June 1967, 8K of memory, that's about it. > > Bill. > >(Man, this is awesome!) Indeed it is an awesome machine, and I'm extremely glad that Bill was able to save it from the scrapyard (which BTW is where it was headed). Anybody know how to turn up a HP2100S minicomputer??? That was my big "keeper". Regards, Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web page (oops, I guess I need to add "Computer" in there somewhere) http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue May 4 16:58:58 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Altair, pfeh! I own a Univac. In-Reply-To: <199905042116.RAA27089@platy.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 1999, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > Well, okay, parts of one. Big parts. Now THATS cool! Good luck restoring it! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue May 4 18:40:06 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Saw at goodwill In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401be9687$70d1c6a0$38711fd1@5x86jk> I see them here in the Twincities on a regular basis. John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 12:57 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Saw at goodwill > > > On Tue, 4 May 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > > > My old computer class was taught on two model 33's (to a HP2000) and a > > black Apple II. > > > > I always thought that the black apples were the correct color. What > > exactly is the significance of the black case??? > > It was just an OEM model produced for Bell&Howell, who then marketed them > to schools. There are supposedly tons of them out there, but I've yet to > run across one. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 04/03/99] > > From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue May 4 21:27:20 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Upcoming Haul: DEC Gear and Documentation Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990504192720.0076a040@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi Gang: I learned recently of a number of pdp-11s and Vaxen going surplus in the Vancouver area. Looks like various LSI 11s, spare parts, boards, docs. Peripherals include 9 track and (likely) DAT tape, RD53 and RD54 drives, some SMD drives. Vaxes are of the Microvax III type. Full set of VMS docs, version 4.x. Also an optical disk drive, unknown make/model, WORM type, about 18" platters. A total of about 4-5 systems. More info will be posted as I get it. Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 4 22:15:51 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question In-Reply-To: "emanuel stiebler" "Re: Emulex board question" (May 4, 8:34) References: <009101be963b$47021bf0$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Message-ID: <9905050415.ZM2381@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 4, 8:34, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Correction, directly from the manual. RL01 or RL02 emulation ;-)) > > But serious, there are two version of the SC02 board. The SC02/L emulates > the Rl01/Rl02 disks, and the SC02/C emulates the RK06/RK07 disks. > > Looks to me, that the big difference is in software, because both of these > boards look very similar. The boards are identical. The difference is in the firmware. If Emanuel's information about an SC02/L is correct, then there at least *four* versions, because: SC02/A RP11 emulation, compatible with RP02/3 disks SC02/B RH11 emulation, compatible with RM02/3 disks SC02/C RK611 emulation, compatible with RK06/7 disks These are the only ones I've seen in Emulex docs. There are similar versions of the SC03, which also has a /MS variant, which supports MSCP. I assume there are similar variants of the SC12, which is the Unibus version. However, the original enquiry was about a SCO210101-CXL, which is an SC02/C. Dan was correct. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 5 00:22:30 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: KA650 & uVAX Message-ID: <4.1.19990504222010.00bd25a0@mcmanis.com> I've heard its possible to "upgrade" a uVAX II to a uVAX III by replacing the KA-630 with the KA-650 CPU. Now I've looked at a KA-650 and it has a metal cover over its end and a small RJ-xx like plug in it. The KA-630 has two IDC connectors that go to the 630CNF console plug in the BA123 world box. Do I also need a conversion kit for the KA-650 or is the CPU with connectors hiding behind this metal facade? --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 5 01:37:21 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990504222010.00bd25a0@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: >I've heard its possible to "upgrade" a uVAX II to a uVAX III by replacing >the KA-630 with the KA-650 CPU. Now I've looked at a KA-650 and it has a >metal cover over its end and a small RJ-xx like plug in it. The KA-630 has >two IDC connectors that go to the 630CNF console plug in the BA123 world >box. Do I also need a conversion kit for the KA-650 or is the CPU with >connectors hiding behind this metal facade? > >--Chuck Sounds like you plug the console cable directly into the KA650 which makes since, as I believe the board is intended to go into a BA213. One thing to remember is that you'll need different RAM than is used with the KA630. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From Jgzabol at aol.com Wed May 5 03:16:10 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed Message-ID: <2de99bf3.2461584a@aol.com> In einer eMail vom 04.05.99 21:47:46, schreibt Tony: << > I would certainly appreciate the Diablo pinout - if the pin layout is the > same, I would expect the signals to be the same , at least something easier > to check stan starting from nothing ! OK, here you are. The pin layout on the connector is something like : A B C D E F H J K L M N P R S T U V W X Y Z AA BB CC DD EE FF HH JJ KK LL MM NN PP RR SS TT UU VV WW XX For a total of 42 pins (I am not sure if that's looking at a plug or a socket, but it should be a start). A Read Clock B Write data and clock C Read data D Ground E Read gate F Ready to read/write/seek H Write protect input J Track select 8's K Erase gate L Drive select 1 M High density N Track select 2's P Write protect status R Drive select 2 S Pseudo sector mark T Track select 64's U Drive ready V Drive select 3 W Sector marks X Track select 16's Y Index marks Z Drive select 4 AA Head select BB Track address 128's CC Sector address 1's DD ground EE Write gate FF Track select 32's HH Write check JJ Sector address 2's KK Sector address 4's LL Track select 1's MM Sector address 8's NN Address acknowledge PP +5v for cable terminator RR Track select 4's SS Strobe TT Seek incomplete UU Sector address 16's VV Restore WW ground XX Illegal address If you need descriptions of any of those, let me know - I have the full service manual for the Diablo. > > Thanks > John > -tony >> That is EXACTLY what I need - the connector has the letters above imprinted, and the meaning of the signals I have from the DEC docs. This is precisely the RK-11 Drive Bus. Thank you _VERY_ much! Regards John G. Zabolitzky From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Wed May 5 09:30:13 1999 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <69ADBFE3C6C@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> > I've heard its possible to "upgrade" a uVAX II to a uVAX III by > replacing the KA-630 with the KA-650 CPU. I have a MicroVAX 3 in a BA123 (upgraded by DEC from a MicroVAX II). The 'official' upgrade board had the same connectors as the KA-630 making upgrade easy. The 'official' upgrade comprised the upgrade CPU, a 16Mb MS-650 and a "MicroVAX 3" badge to replace the "Microvax II" one. The CPU was different to that supplied for MicroVAX 3xxx in a BA213 in that there was no memory or ethernet on the MicroVAX 3 upgrade CPU board. You had to send the KA-630 and MS-630 back to take advantage of a 'special offer'. My MicroVAX 3 currently has 32Mb memory (16+8+8), although at one stage I had 48Mb in it (16+16+16), a TK50, and 4 RD54 drives. I have the whole documented history of this computer, including the original purcahse agreement (when it was a 5Mb MicroVAX II with one RD53 in April 1986 when the hardware alone cost over 26,000 UKP) Doug. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed May 5 05:55:10 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Looking for Intel pds Prom programming software In-Reply-To: from "George Rachor" at May 3, 99 09:26:29 am Message-ID: <199905051055.DAA16579@saul5.u.washington.edu> > I'm trying to put together a Prom Programming station based on the iPDS > (Intel's Isis luggable) computer. I've managed to locate the OS, and some > applications but am still in need of the Prom programming software. I > think it was titled 'IPPS'. Sorry, I can't help you. I was actually going to ask _you_ some questions. You may want to try Intel's site, though. They have a small amount of ISIS stuff there (an emulator and maybe some other things). It's very disorganized -- you have to use the search function. Intel doesn't seem to care about such ancient history. Do you have any documentation for ISIS? I tried playing with the emulator and couldn't manage to do anything. I'm mainly wondering what features ISIS provides as an operating system and what its commands are. It's also very enlightening to compare ISIS to CP/M. Although CP/M was designed with an external interface that looked sort of like DEC's PDP-11 OSs, internally CP/M seems to have been inspired by ISIS to some degree. I forget why I came to that conclusion (because I don't have the appropriate articles in front of me) but I know the register conventions were similar and I think the modular construction, memory layout, etc., may have been similar too. The funny thing is, CP/M has some silly flaws that shouldn't have happened, because ISIS doesn't have those flaws! Two especially come to mind: - No supported way to tell where in memory the parts of CP/M are. DRI's approach of "assemble CP/M for your particular system" is only workable for hobbyists that build and program their own machines and never use anyone else's binaries. I think ISIS has a system call that gives you the current memory layout. - Not necessarily easy to get to the non-file parts of a disk (the boot tracks, directory blocks, etc.) I've heard ISIS had a number of fake "files" for the non-file parts of a disk, which made disk hacking a lot easier. - Warm boots. I never understood why the warm boot in CP/M was combined with the routines to reread a disk directory. They are not the same thing. Changing disks is such a nuisance. Oddly, CP/M keeps enough information in memory to tell it that the directory is invalid... so why can't it just read the new disk instead of giving an error? I forget if ISIS solved this problem as well. Of course CP/M eventually got some features that I doubt ISIS ever had (longer file names, network and graphics support, three different hardware platforms, more software). -- Derek From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed May 5 07:36:02 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Looking for Intel pds Prom programming software In-Reply-To: <199905051055.DAA16579@saul5.u.washington.edu> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990505073602.3cc7d4fc@intellistar.net> Derek, I've got tons of ISIS II and III docs. At least four LARGE binders full. I've made a partial list. I'll post it at "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/mds.txt". I'll add to it when I have time. BTW I was at a scrap yard yesterday and found some black Intel pods with large ribbon cables attached. The pods looked like they may have come from some kind of ICE or logic analyzer judging by the input lables. The pods were about the size of a pack of cigarettes and are much smaller than the ICE pods that I have. Unfortunately the other endo the cable was cut off. Does anyone know what they might be for? Joe At 03:55 AM 5/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >> I'm trying to put together a Prom Programming station based on the iPDS >> (Intel's Isis luggable) computer. I've managed to locate the OS, and some >> applications but am still in need of the Prom programming software. I >> think it was titled 'IPPS'. > >Sorry, I can't help you. I was actually going to ask _you_ some questions. >You may want to try Intel's site, though. They have a small amount of ISIS >stuff there (an emulator and maybe some other things). It's very >disorganized -- you have to use the search function. Intel doesn't seem to >care about such ancient history. > >Do you have any documentation for ISIS? I tried playing with the emulator >and couldn't manage to do anything. I'm mainly wondering what features ISIS >provides as an operating system and what its commands are. > >It's also very enlightening to compare ISIS to CP/M. Although CP/M was >designed with an external interface that looked sort of like DEC's PDP-11 >OSs, internally CP/M seems to have been inspired by ISIS to some degree. I >forget why I came to that conclusion (because I don't have the appropriate >articles in front of me) but I know the register conventions were similar >and I think the modular construction, memory layout, etc., may have been >similar too. > >The funny thing is, CP/M has some silly flaws that shouldn't have happened, >because ISIS doesn't have those flaws! Two especially come to mind: > > - No supported way to tell where in memory the parts of CP/M are. > DRI's approach of "assemble CP/M for your particular system" is > only workable for hobbyists that build and program their own > machines and never use anyone else's binaries. I think ISIS has > a system call that gives you the current memory layout. > > - Not necessarily easy to get to the non-file parts of a disk > (the boot tracks, directory blocks, etc.) I've heard ISIS had > a number of fake "files" for the non-file parts of a disk, which > made disk hacking a lot easier. > > - Warm boots. I never understood why the warm boot in CP/M was > combined with the routines to reread a disk directory. They are > not the same thing. Changing disks is such a nuisance. Oddly, > CP/M keeps enough information in memory to tell it that the > directory is invalid... so why can't it just read the new > disk instead of giving an error? I forget if ISIS solved this > problem as well. > >Of course CP/M eventually got some features that I doubt ISIS ever had >(longer file names, network and graphics support, three different hardware >platforms, more software). > >-- Derek > > From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.COM Wed May 5 07:45:09 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.COM (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.COM) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: KA650 & uVAX Message-ID: <990505084509.24e000b3@trailing-edge.com> >I've heard its possible to "upgrade" a uVAX II to a uVAX III by replacing >the KA-630 with the KA-650 CPU. Now I've looked at a KA-650 and it has a >metal cover over its end and a small RJ-xx like plug in it. The KA-630 has box. Do I also need a conversion kit for the KA-650 or is the CPU with >connectors hiding behind this metal facade? You have the skunk box (BA213-type cabinet) version of the KA650. The skunk box deals with FCC compliance by having a metal cover over each board (or board set). As long as you aren't particularly worried about neighbors turning you in to the FCC, you're welcome to cable up the console any way you want. The console bulkhead on the skunk box KA650 uses DEC MMJ connectors (offset-tab modular pluts) for the serial cable, a rather standard thing in the DEC world. You'll also need KA650-compatible memory to go along with the CPU; KA630 memory doesn't work with the KA650 CPU. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From emu at ecubics.com Wed May 5 08:55:03 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Emulex board question Message-ID: <006701be96fe$e2726540$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Hi, -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Emulex board question >The boards are identical. The difference is in the firmware. If Emanuel's >information about an SC02/L is correct, then there at least *four* >versions, because: > > SC02/A RP11 emulation, compatible with RP02/3 disks > SC02/B RH11 emulation, compatible with RM02/3 disks > SC02/C RK611 emulation, compatible with RK06/7 disks > >These are the only ones I've seen in Emulex docs. There are similar WOW ;-)) >However, the original enquiry was about a SCO210101-CXL, which is an >SC02/C. >Dan was correct. I can live with that ;-)) So i always had a SC02/C and thought it emulates Rl02/RL03, so i never put disks on it :-(( cheers, emanuel From emu at ecubics.com Wed May 5 09:04:30 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: KA650 & uVAX Message-ID: <007001be9700$33ccb340$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Hi, -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 11:16 PM Subject: KA650 & uVAX >I've heard its possible to "upgrade" a uVAX II to a uVAX III by replacing >the KA-630 with the KA-650 CPU. Now I've looked at a KA-650 and it has a >metal cover over its end and a small RJ-xx like plug in it. The KA-630 has >two IDC connectors that go to the 630CNF console plug in the BA123 world >box. If you try to use the BA123 again, simply use the 630 cnf console. If you remove the metal cover from the ka650, you see the flat ribbon connectors for it. I use here some of my KA650 in BA23 & BA123 enclosures. > Do I also need a conversion kit for the KA-650 or is the CPU with >connectors hiding behind this metal facade? No. Have fun, emanuel From jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu Wed May 5 09:48:54 1999 From: jott at mastif.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: OT: neon lamps from previous post In-Reply-To: <990422083015.20c00997@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Apr 22, 99 08:30:15 am Message-ID: <199905051448.JAA05200@mastif.ee.nd.edu> Hello - Does you have a reference on how to build an oscillator or counter out of neon lamps? john > > Mike wrote: > >> Perhaps a > >> smaller array, but with LARGE cores where the magnetic state could have > >> some visual indicators. > > >How would that work? Would you have an LED for each bit or something? > > Get a little bit away from magnetic storage, and you can use neon > lamps as storage elements which are self-illuminating :-). > > Neon lamps - when powered by DC - have a nice memory property: They > take about 90VDC to light up, but after they light up they'll stay on > until the voltage drops below 60VDC or so. Only problems are: > > 1. The thresholds can vary greatly from unit to unit. > > 2. The thresholds will vary depending on ambient light, as well. > > Property 2 above can be used to build oscillators out of pairs > of neons, as a matter of fact... > > Tim. > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From wrking at tsoft.com Wed May 5 05:55:16 1999 From: wrking at tsoft.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Dec RL01 drive problem Message-ID: <002101be96e5$c2797710$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> I have an RL01 drive which isn't working correctly. I've opened up the back end of the drive so I can see what is happening and what I see is this. 1. Drive starts to spin up, but it's obvious by looking at the spindle of the drive motor, that the motor never reaches full speed. 2. After about 5 seconds, the drive slows some, and the heads attempt to load. 3. The heads then chatter back and forth. They appear to move in about .25 inches and then retract. 4. This continues until I spin down the drive. If I pull the pack out, and hold the switches closed manually, the motor does reach full speed (although the heads never attempt to load). If anyone has any suggestions as to what might be the problem, I really apprecite some information. Thanks, Bill King From jpl15 at netcom.com Wed May 5 10:27:51 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Dec RL01 drive problem In-Reply-To: <002101be96e5$c2797710$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, William King wrote: > I have an RL01 drive which isn't working correctly. I've opened up the back > end of the drive so I can see what is happening and what I see is this. > > 1. Drive starts to spin up, but it's obvious by looking at the spindle of > the drive motor, that the motor never reaches full speed. > 2. After about 5 seconds, the drive slows some, and the heads attempt to > load. > 3. The heads then chatter back and forth. They appear to move in about .25 > inches and then retract. > 4. This continues until I spin down the drive. > Head shipping lock still installed? Something wedged in the magnet housing? Servo not reading it's info? Head seperating wedge sticking? With power off, and pack out, can you move the head assy by hand a full stroke? This will tell if it's mechanical or elctronic. Last time this happened to me it was junk in the magnet. Cheerz and Feliz Cinco de Mayo... John From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 5 12:21:18 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <990505084509.24e000b3@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990505101532.03d354f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 08:45 AM 5/5/99 -0400, Tim wrote: >You have the skunk box (BA213-type cabinet) version of the KA650. The >skunk box deals with FCC compliance by having a metal cover over >each board (or board set). As long as you aren't particularly worried >about neighbors turning you in to the FCC, you're welcome to cable >up the console any way you want. The console bulkhead on the skunk >box KA650 uses DEC MMJ connectors (offset-tab modular pluts) for the >serial cable, a rather standard thing in the DEC world. Very cool, I actually picked up three UVAX38xx's in two of them were KA650 cpus and in one was a KA655 CPU. All three have been "upgraded" to 32MB of third party memory. The "skunk" boxes were fairly trashed by the process of sparing them out. I'm guessing that they were part of a cluster. >You'll also need KA650-compatible memory to go along with the CPU; >KA630 memory doesn't work with the KA650 CPU. Not a problem as they have 32MB memory cards with them. As for peripherals they all have TK70 tape drives, and the associated controller, one has a board pair M7164/M7165 connected by short cables across the top. And there is a drive hiding in one of them. (I've not identified it yet) they have what look like SCSI II connectors but a person suggested they might be DSSI connectors (which I know nothing about). I'm going to see if I can bring one of the boxes to life, All are missing the panel that would have covered the card cage. If not I'll try to enhance the speed of my world box bases uVax II. --Chuck From emu at ecubics.com Wed May 5 12:17:58 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: Pertec interface Message-ID: <014e01be971b$3b203430$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Hi all, Anybody knows, where i can find a good description & pinning of the pertec tape interface ? thanks a lot, emanuel From sloane at sbus.com Wed May 5 12:33:35 1999 From: sloane at sbus.com (sloane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:51 2005 Subject: core memory Message-ID: <373080EF.CDAFFEF@sbus.com> I collect core memory, found a lead to you on the Web. Got some you wanna part with? Gary Sloane SB/US Engineering Inc. sloane@sbus.com From emu at ecubics.com Wed May 5 12:43:13 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX Message-ID: <015b01be971e$c234dd10$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Hi Chuck, -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 11:16 AM Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX >Very cool, I actually picked up three UVAX38xx's in two of them were KA650 >cpus and in one was a KA655 CPU. All three have been "upgraded" to 32MB of >third party memory. The "skunk" boxes were fairly trashed by the process of >sparing them out. I'm guessing that they were part of a cluster. Lucky day ;-)) > As for peripherals they all have TK70 tape drives, and the > associated >controller, starting to get envious ;-)) > one has a board pair M7164/M7165 connected by short cables >across the top. M7164/M7165 is the KDA50 SDI controller, not SCSI. > And there is a drive hiding in one of them. (I've not >identified it yet) they have what look like SCSI II connectors > but a person >suggested they might be DSSI connectors (which I know nothing about). Could be SCSI, could be DSSI, tell us the type ... >I'm going to see if I can bring one of the boxes to life, All are missing >the panel that would have covered the card cage. If not I'll try to enhance >the speed of my world box bases uVax II. I would start with the ka655. Not because she's faster, but the monitor program is better (sometimes the ka650 have the same, but not always) cheers & have fun, emanuel From max82 at surfree.com Wed May 5 13:20:17 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Lots of machines available Message-ID: <37308BE1.C07B7A12@surfree.com> Last time I said I beat up some PCs, many of you were disturbed. So this time, I'm warning you before I do it. There are 8 DEC LPv+ 425dx and 433dx machines. They are all 486 DX with RAM from 0 to 16 MB, some have hard drives around 200 MB, some should have OS/2. They are being thrown away because they have miscellaneous problems, and we haven't been able to fix them. I haven't tried, so I don't know what the problems are. Anyway, first come, first served. Price is 1.2 * shipping. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed May 5 14:07:39 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: <373080EF.CDAFFEF@sbus.com> (message from sloane on Wed, 05 May 1999 10:33:35 -0700) References: <373080EF.CDAFFEF@sbus.com> Message-ID: <19990505190739.6627.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I collect core memory, found a lead to you on the Web. > Got some you wanna part with? I'm not sure that you'll get a very warm reception on this mailing list. The people here mostly collect *systems* (some of which contain core memory), and are somewhat devoted to keeping the systems running rather than parting them out. On the other hand, no one probably objects too much to collecting core memory that has already become separated from a system through no fault of the collector. But I'm certainly not selling any core memory out of my PDP-8s or PDP-11s, except maybe to another PDP-8 or PDP-11 user, and they'd have to twist my arm pretty hard to make that happen. Cheers, Eric From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed May 5 14:29:36 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory Message-ID: <19990505192936.18145.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- sloane wrote: > I collect core memory, found a lead to you on the Web. > > Got some you wanna part with? I might have a core stack that is available. I have some planes from from a PDP-8L, part of a 4k x 13 bit memory (12 plus parity). It was built around 1968. Offers? -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 13:54:49 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed In-Reply-To: <2de99bf3.2461584a@aol.com> from "Jgzabol@aol.com" at May 5, 99 04:16:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 749 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990505/3e4db0d9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 14:01:23 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Dec RL01 drive problem In-Reply-To: <002101be96e5$c2797710$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> from "William King" at May 5, 99 03:55:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1607 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990505/d21aa162/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed May 5 15:10:20 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: <19990505192936.18145.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "May 5, 1999 12:29:36 pm" Message-ID: <199905052010.UAA02912@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > --- sloane wrote: > > I collect core memory, found a lead to you on the Web. > > > > Got some you wanna part with? > > I might have a core stack that is available. I have some planes from > from a PDP-8L, part of a 4k x 13 bit memory (12 plus parity). It was > built around 1968. > > Offers? > > -ethan > Whats your email address? -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu God of Realmsmud, Afterhours mud. From Chwolka at nt-gmbh.de Wed May 5 21:35:22 1999 From: Chwolka at nt-gmbh.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: HP 9845 and space schuttle program was Re: Any HP 9845 Desktops Still In Service? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990430075658.39efcebc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199905052035.NAA28652@mxu2.u.washington.edu> On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:56:58, Joe wrote: >I got this from a guy that used to use the HP 9845 calculator and thought >this group might be interested. > >> >>On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Joe wrote: >>> What kind of work did you do with the 9845? Do you still have anything >>> for them? >> >>Joe, >> >>There's no trace of anything to be found...not even for the HP 9000/520 >>used to migrate some of my applications. Let's see if you'll regret >>asking me what I did with it? :-) >> >>I actually used the 9845B (Model T) for Space Shuttle flight support >>(STS-2 through STS-24). I worked at Rockwell International Space Systems Nice.. I have a 9845B staying in my kitchen... No I don't need the kitchen for cooking.. Now the 9845B didn't start and it seeemd to be a problem with the tapedrives. They made no sound and so sduring the initial routine the 9845 waits for somethind and seems to hang.. I believe so... Fritz Chwolka --------------------- Collecting old computers just for fun From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.COM Wed May 5 15:37:25 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.COM (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.COM) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Dec RL01 drive problem Message-ID: <990505163725.24e000c3@trailing-edge.com> > 1. Drive starts to spin up, but it's obvious by looking at the spindle of >the drive motor, that the motor never reaches full speed. > 2. After about 5 seconds, the drive slows some, and the heads attempt to >load. If the drive never reaches full speed, then the heads aren't supposed to come out. This indicates a problem with the servo control board (the one near the spindle motor) perhaps. > 3. The heads then chatter back and forth. They appear to move in about .25 >inches and then retract. > 4. This continues until I spin down the drive. > >If I pull the pack out, and hold the switches closed manually, the motor >does reach full speed (although the heads never attempt to load). "Full speed reached" (and speed regulation in general) is controlled by the little magnetic gap sensor you see near the hub spindle and the notches in the RL01 cartridge's hub. >If anyone has any suggestions as to what might be the problem, I really >apprecite some information. After the simple mechanical checks others have suggested, I'd recommend trying a replacement servo control board. Tim. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 5 13:21:26 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: <373080EF.CDAFFEF@sbus.com> Message-ID: >I collect core memory, found a lead to you on the Web. > >Got some you wanna part with? Well, I could tell you a little about my troubled childhood. From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed May 5 13:18:06 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Lots of machines available In-Reply-To: <37308BE1.C07B7A12@surfree.com> Message-ID: <199905052211.SAA05771@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 14:20:17 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Max Eskin > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Lots of machines available > Last time I said I beat up some PCs, many of you were disturbed. So this > time, I'm warning you before I do it. There are 8 DEC LPv+ 425dx and > 433dx machines. They are all 486 DX with RAM from 0 to 16 MB, some have > hard drives around 200 MB, some should have OS/2. They are being thrown > away because they have miscellaneous problems, and we haven't been able > to fix them. I haven't tried, so I don't know what the problems are. > Anyway, first come, first served. Price is 1.2 * shipping. > Those machines is decent ones and LP in it is "Low Profile" desktops with 3 tree slots ISA I think, space for 3 drives (2 3.5 and 5.25" external, one is 3.5 internal). I can't remember if one can plug those DIP cache chips into them. Kinda cloneish than Digital's. It's nice to know the general problems if you could contact your friends who "tried" to repair them? We had them too at NTID (National Techanical Institute of Deaf) where RIT college is in northern NY. They too went out the door few years earlier to make room for newer machines for drafting/ CAD classes. Wizard email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From max82 at surfree.com Wed May 5 16:20:57 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Lots of machines available In-Reply-To: <199905052211.SAA05771@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999 jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote: >external, one is 3.5 internal). I can't remember if one can plug >those DIP cache chips into them. Kinda cloneish than Digital's. There are cache chips. >It's nice to know the general problems if you could contact your >friends who "tried" to repair them? It is likely that they had trouble installing the hard drive and properly configuring it. It's also possible that some were fried, though I doubt it. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 5 17:43:00 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: <373080EF.CDAFFEF@sbus.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, sloane wrote: > I collect core memory, found a lead to you on the Web. > > Got some you wanna part with? Nope, sorry Gary. All the core memory we have is already hanging on walls looking "cool". Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From cmcmanis at freegate.com Wed May 5 17:58:24 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Yowee! Kazowie! Message-ID: <4.1.19990505153026.03cbc880@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> This is one of those times where "winning" an auction is wild. So I tested pulled the KA650 (I know the KA655) would be better, and the third party memory boards out of one of the BA213 chassis and replaced the KA630 and 12MB(4+8MB) of RAM. Question: The KA650 ram linkage cable has slots for four RAM boards, the KA630 one has slots for two, I used the KA650's cable and it hangs over the next couple of Q/Q slots, can I use the KA630's cable? They seem to have the same number of pins but I haven't counted. I power up this puppy and right away it's different because it starts at #40 and starts counting down. The banner says: KA650-A V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. Then I boot the current image of netbsd on it and it reports 64MB of "real" memory, so these memory boards are 32MB each not 16MB each. Cool! Then I power it down, and install one of the TK70 drives in place of the Exabyte that has been giving me some trouble. Reboot and the kernel finds the drive and all is well. Power it down again so that I can button it up, go back into another room where I'll tip into it without the noise, power it up get the >>> prompt and type 'b' but it isn't echoed. Go back to the machine room and the vax is dark and the room smells. Yikes! Turn it off, pull all the boards, inspect them for damage. There isn't any, turn on the power with only the CPU board installed, and notice a "light" in the TK70 drive. Now since there aren't any light bulbs in the drive I look closely and sure enough it is flames around a resistor in there. Off goes the power, out comes the TK70, try it again, but no go, the DCOK like don't light and there is still a vague smell coming from the chassis. Kazowie! So, does anyone have the printset for the BA123 power supply? I'm pretty sure the boards survived, the TK70 I'm not so sure about. I sure wish I knew why it lit up like that. --Chuck From elvey at hal.com Wed May 5 18:11:07 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: OT: neon lamps from previous post In-Reply-To: <199905051448.JAA05200@mastif.ee.nd.edu> Message-ID: <199905052311.QAA07084@civic.hal.com> John Ott wrote: > Hello - > > Does you have a reference on how to build an oscillator or counter out > of neon lamps? > > john Hi Simple oscillator using NE-2: 90 VDC | > < 470K > < | +------+ | | (:)NE2 _ | - .1 uF 100V | | +------+ | GND It seems like there was an article, way back, in Scientific American that showed flop-flops and gating logic. I don't recall the exact values needed but they were based on the condition that when using two neons and a shared current source, if both where lit, the voltage drop across the common limiting resistor would be too much to keep both lamps lit at the same time. Only one lamp by it self could stay on. Other resistors were used to isolate the two and provide input and output through coupling capacitors. Dwight From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 5 18:20:28 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory Message-ID: <199905052320.AA16586@world.std.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.COM" at May 5, 99 04:37:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1556 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990506/52b0f8ca/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed May 5 20:16:56 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: HP 9845 and space schuttle program was Re: Any HP 9845 Desktops Still In Service? In-Reply-To: <199905052035.NAA28652@mxu2.u.washington.edu> References: <3.0.1.16.19990430075658.39efcebc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990505201656.21d7db18@intellistar.net> At 10:35 PM 5/5/99 -0400, Fritz said: >Nice.. I have a 9845B staying in my kitchen... >No I don't need the kitchen for cooking.. Sounds like my kitchen. It currently occupied by an Alpha Micro 100, a dual 8" drive cabinet for an Altair and a few others. Yes, I still cook there, just have to step around stuff. > >Now the 9845B didn't start and it seeemd to be a problem with the >tapedrives. They made no sound and so sduring the initial routine >the 9845 waits for somethind and seems to hang.. That's common with the HPs. The tape drive wheel melts and doesn't drive the tape and the motor runs and runs. I don't think they ever time out, they seem to just keep running and waiting for the tape to get where it should be. Glad to hear someone else out there has a 9845. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed May 5 20:28:36 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: HP 9000 840S Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990505202836.4fb7190c@intellistar.net> I have a chance to pick up one of these. Does anyone know anything about them? Joe From cmcmanis at freegate.com Wed May 5 19:35:53 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Whew! Message-ID: <4.1.19990505171441.03c96e30@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> In classic fashion it appears the TK70 drive committed suicide in order to save the circuit breaker the trouble of tripping. Sigh. After letting the thermal overloads cool off and reset, I brought the system up one board at a time (first CPU+MEM) then CPU+MEM+Ethernet, then CPU+MEM+Ethernet+DISK, etc. Lastly I plugged power back to my disks and got a complete boot. The TK70 is toast, a component near the power connector is ash as far as I can tell (and boy does it smell!) The drive mechanism appears to be intact and is available to anyone for 1.2*cost of shipping. (nice formula that) So the zillion dollar question is, why the heck did the TK70 smoke like that? The interconnect between the controller and the board says "This Side DOWN" and that was connected with the label against the PCB (which makes it lower relative to the top of the drive) Is the power connector not a 'standard' one? +5 +12 and GND little plastic molex hood? The other change was I used a skid from the disk drive. The metal plate on the bottom touches the screws, but it did not appear to contact the PCB. I could try one without the metal plate but I'm not going to experiment on my only two remaining drives! I'm guessing there is some "other" type of plate for these drives. --Chuck From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed May 5 20:13:46 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: mainframe for sale (NC) Message-ID: Not sure of the type or kind or whether it's even old enough, but you figure it out. reply to person below please begin pasted text: >Mohawk Data Systems Mainframe SUPER 21 >old mainframe (HD says "Built in 84") > Haven't started playing with it yet, has two big floppy drives (10 inch?) >Monitor, keyboard, 2 printers, cabling, lots of other goodies. >Make me an offer. >Don't know if it even works... yet. But.. if it does, the price goes up the longer I work >on it. > Judging from the size of the cooling fans on it, it could probably be used as a >space heater also. >Jim jpfenske@intrex.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 5 20:25:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Whew! In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505171441.03c96e30@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at May 5, 99 05:35:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1768 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990506/283a43e5/attachment.ksh From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Wed May 5 20:35:49 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: mainframe for sale - not general purpose machine. Message-ID: <199905060135.VAA00368@golden.net> >>Mohawk Data Systems Mainframe SUPER 21 > Just to help out prospective buyers. MDS made data entry systems, not general purpose computers. Having said that, the guts of the Super 21 is an ATRON (now there's a popular name eh) minicomputer, but it was twisted and shaped, especially the operating system to accept multiple data streams and organize them onto 9-track tape or buffer the files on disk for data transmission to a host. It would be an interesting acquisition. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed May 5 20:38:32 1999 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Cosmac ELF article in Popular Electronics In-Reply-To: <000a01be93d9$88b98b00$7cb520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> References: <000a01be93d9$88b98b00$7cb520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3736f1db.337432912@insight> The entire set of articles has been reconstructed in HTML and the schematics re-drawn by Kenneth Melvin, and are available on my web site, for anyone who wants a clean printed copy... -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 5 21:40:01 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: References: <373080EF.CDAFFEF@sbus.com> Message-ID: >Nope, sorry Gary. All the core memory we have is already hanging on walls >looking "cool". So what is the recommended method of carefully storing a core memory board on the wall? What kind of anti-static protection are you using? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 5 20:50:20 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <015b01be971e$c234dd10$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Message-ID: <4.1.19990505183417.03d734e0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 11:43 AM 5/5/99 -0600, emanuel stiebler wrote: >> one has a board pair M7164/M7165 connected by short cables >>across the top. > >M7164/M7165 is the KDA50 SDI controller, not SCSI. Ok, I give up, what the heck is this? QDA "Quad" processor. Ok, is it used for clustering or something? >Could be SCSI, could be DSSI, tell us the type ... KFSQA - Q22 DSSI Controller, the drives hiding in the cabinet are two RF71's. So it looks like 1.6GB about of disk space. Of course I have no idea if the drives work or not, but it is beginning to look like it will make sense to get one of the BA213's together as a "real" machine. (Generally the machines at these auctions have been either intentionally stripped of things like disk drives that might contain "valuable" data, or they have been used as parts sources and so are not complete. So here are some "skunk box" questions: What type of backplane is this? Looks almost like it is Q/CD all the way across. There is an ethernet interface in one called a DESQA any good? Seems like a follow on to the DEQNA as it has both 10B2 and AUI ports on it. The other two chassis both had DELQA's in them. Since my uVAX II is chomping along now as a uVAX III with the KA650 I think I'll leave that as is. One of my other TK70 drives has the plate attached so that answers that question, and by careful disassembly I can see that the connectors are correct in terms of how I plugged them, so the only question is if the fault was a board short or if the power connector is non-standard. Anyone? --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 5 21:06:07 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Cosmac ELF article in Popular Electronics In-Reply-To: <3736f1db.337432912@insight> References: <000a01be93d9$88b98b00$7cb520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> <000a01be93d9$88b98b00$7cb520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990505190529.03c72300@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Where on your site, loved the metal casting btw ... --Chuck At 01:38 AM 5/6/99 +0000, you wrote: >The entire set of articles has been reconstructed in HTML >... and are available on my web site, From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed May 5 21:17:22 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX Message-ID: <990505221722.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> >>> one has a board pair M7164/M7165 connected by short cables >>>across the top. >> >>M7164/M7165 is the KDA50 SDI controller, not SCSI. >Ok, I give up, what the heck is this? QDA "Quad" processor. Ok, is it used >for clustering or something? It runs RA70's, RA80's, and RA90's. 4 at a time. >So here are some "skunk box" questions: > >What type of backplane is this? Looks almost like it is Q/CD all the way >across. Yep, you got it! >There is an ethernet interface in one called a DESQA any good? Seems like a >follow on to the DEQNA as it has both 10B2 and AUI ports on it. The other >two chassis both had DELQA's in them. The DESQA is skunk box version of the DELQA. >so that answers that question, and by careful disassembly I can see that >the connectors are correct in terms of how I plugged them, so the only >question is if the fault was a board short or if the power connector is >non-standard. Anyone? It's a perfectly standard connector. The components near the connector are, in this case, probably nothing fancier than some electrolytics for bypassing. Is this reasonable? My TK70's are currently in running systems, and my customers would get angry if I started pulling them apart this time of night :-) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ss at allegro.com Wed May 5 21:17:46 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: HP 9000 840S In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990505202836.4fb7190c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199905060217.TAA30246@bart.allegro.com> Re: HP 9000 840S > I have a chance to pick up one of these. Does anyone know anything about them? The 9000/840 was HP's first PA-RISC HP 9000. It's the same hardware as the HP 3000/930, and has an 8 MHz clock. They generally shipped with something like 24 MB, IIRC (which wasn't enough). I think you should take it! If not, post here...a couple of us might be interested. SS From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 5 21:49:58 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Whew! Message-ID: <199905060249.AA27447@world.std.com> Quick question of the PDP-8. I have a M8652YA, I'd my bet that it's similar if not the same as M8655. Can anyone confirm? A schematic, chip locator and a pinout of the connector would help too. Allison From mbg at world.std.com Wed May 5 21:57:19 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX Message-ID: <199905060257.AA06199@world.std.com> >>M7164/M7165 is the KDA50 SDI controller, not SCSI. > >Ok, I give up, what the heck is this? QDA "Quad" processor. Ok, is it >used for clustering or something? It is a KDA50-Q, Qbus to MSCP disk controller... >KFSQA - Q22 DSSI Controller, the drives hiding in the cabinet are two >RF71's. So it looks like 1.6GB about of disk space. Of course I have no Nope, KFQSA is a single quad board... The machine may have had one in the past, but not now... do NOT use a SCSI cable/terminator with those DSSI drives... >What type of backplane is this? Looks almost like it is Q/CD all the way >across. Yes, Q22/CD all the way... >There is an ethernet interface in one called a DESQA any good? Seems like >a follow on to the DEQNA as it has both 10B2 and AUI ports on it. The >other two chassis both had DELQA's in them. DESQA = DELQA with s-box handle (essentially). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Wed May 5 22:04:15 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: FREE!!! PDP-11/34A Complete System Message-ID: <199905060304.AA14090@world.std.com> >Xref: world alt.sys.pdp11:6285 >Path: world!blanket.mitre.org!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail >From: moorem@bucks.edu >Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 >Subject: FREE!!! PDP-11/34A Complete System >Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:41:05 GMT >Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion >Lines: 10 >Message-ID: <7gq6sh$49e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> >NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.112.54.10 >X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed May 05 19:41:05 1999 GMT >X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) >X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x15.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 192.112.54.10 Free for the taking: Complete PDP-11/34A system in 6 foot 22" rack. Includes processor, memory, 2 RL02 disk drives, 1 RK05F disk drive (a fixed disk seen as 2 RK05 removables). This unit has been sitting in my barn for 10 years or so and is kind of dirty but it ran when I parked it! Terms: All or nothing, you pick up. Location: Eastern PA (central Bucks county, north of Phila.). Email: moorem@bucks.edu Thanks!!! -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own From dogas at leading.net Wed May 5 22:09:34 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Nec PC-6001A Message-ID: <01be976d$de65de40$d1c962cf@devlaptop> I tripped over one of these for $2 at a thrifty. I like the external and overall design but the video out is responding dissappointingly to initial probes. The only thing on the net I've found at the Obsolete Musuem says it's an 8k ms basic machine with a cartridge slot that's kinda exidyish (joystick ports and a speaker too) and what's this wierd printer interface?. Seems like a cool little machine. Anyone know about it? :) Mike From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 5 22:25:02 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <990505221722.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990505201148.03c9cf00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 10:17 PM 5/5/99 -0400, CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: >It runs RA70's, RA80's, and RA90's. 4 at a time. Ah, that explains it, there were a couple of racks of RA81s in this auction as well so I suspect each one of these vaxen originally matched up with one of those racks. Seems incredible to run a disk on what essentially looks like 10BT connector, since there are 4 2901's on the controller its probably a predecessor to firewire or something like it! >Yep, you got it! [Q/CD all across] Cool, also the wide spacing to allow the metal covers fooled me for a minute, there is only 11 slots in these puppies. >The DESQA is skunk box version of the DELQA. Ok, that works. >It's a perfectly standard connector. The components near the connector >are, in this case, probably nothing fancier than some electrolytics >for bypassing. Is this reasonable? My TK70's are currently in running >systems, and my customers would get angry if I started pulling them >apart this time of night :-) No problem-o, please _don't_ disconnect them :-) I'm the short theory on the skid is no the only remaining candidate. One of the boxes has the TK70 with skid plate, which is cool but its also the drive in the nicest shape (it still has its door flap which seems to be pretty rare.) Perhaps its newer than the other ones. I put everything together in the BA213 labelled "chewy" and fired it up, and according to the LED display it booted! Unfortunately I don't have a connector that would hook up into the console port thingy to see _what_ it booted. The RF71's sure make a weird power up sequence, kind of a reggae beat, but they eventually settle down with their little ready lights on. Tomorrow I'm going to steal a CNF with the 9 pin connector to see what the console is saying. Since I'm missing the front cover for this thing does anyone have a pointer to a picture of what it would look like? How about a spare BA213 cover? --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 5 22:38:33 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Whew! In-Reply-To: <199905060249.AA27447@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990505203535.03df9800@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 10:49 PM 5/5/99 -0400, Allison J Parent wrote: >Likely a tantalum capacitor cooked. I've seen that on various drives. often >if removed and the board cleaned up they still operate. They usually short >just hard enough that a good power supply will smoke the offending cap. >Generally if caught soon enough the no damage save for a bad cap cooked >to a crisp. Yup, it could easily be the remains of a Tantalum cap. Weirdest smell. I can't believe that the rest of the board could survive something like this but hey it isn't like the thing is any good as a paper weight! Now to pull one of the others and figure out what value cap used to live there... --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 5 23:40:44 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505201148.03c9cf00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> References: <990505221722.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >>Yep, you got it! [Q/CD all across] > >Cool, also the wide spacing to allow the metal covers fooled me for a >minute, there is only 11 slots in these puppies. Let me see if I've a few facts straight here. This is a BA213 you're talking about, and this is the same backplane as would be in a DECserver 550. Now for the really STUPID question, Q/CD means that all slots are full height, like the first 3 or 4 on a BA123. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed May 5 19:33:41 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: OT: neon lamps from previous post In-Reply-To: <199905052311.QAA07084@civic.hal.com> References: <199905051448.JAA05200@mastif.ee.nd.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990505193341.216f3c42@earthlink.net> At 04:11 PM 5/5/99 -0700, Dwight wrote: >John Ott wrote: >> Hello - >> Does you have a reference on how to build an oscillator or counter out >> of neon lamps? >> >> john Simple oscillator using NE-2: Here's another "flip-flop" which can be expanded upon with steering diodes, etc.: > 90 VDC > +--------+ > > > > < 470K < > > > > < < > | | > +---||---+ 0.1uF > | | > (:)NE2 (:) > | | > | | > +--------+ > | > GND > -Dave From fluke at Mcs.Net Wed May 5 23:07:20 1999 From: fluke at Mcs.Net (Greg Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505183417.03d734e0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: Greetings.. I have had TK's in all sorts of enclosures- my uVAX II's TK-50 has been installed in a pc-type drive case, and is currently living in a boardless DECmate III chassis. The power connector is very standard to my knowledge. I did lose a tk-50 beforehand, though, due to improper insulation between the PCB on the drive and the metal of the box it was installed in. I agree with the cardboard solution- Whenever I mount drives of any type that I don't have many of I always either cover the bare metal case with contact paper or a piece of carboard or something non-conductive. The one that I lost came from a failed machine, and had been sitting around on a friend's dirty workbench for a while. I didn't clean it quite good enough, and a piece of tiny wire had fallen where it shouldn't have. My uVAX 3500 also has had it's tk-70 running on a variety of power sources, and I've always hooked it up to a standard drive power connector. Greg Linder fluke@mcs.net From roblwill at usaor.net Thu May 6 02:06:11 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Whew! Message-ID: <01be978e$ec212d20$498ea6d1@the-general> Does it smell sorta like fish? That's what the Tandy 1400 that I have smelled like when the HD controller blew. Although, that thing always fishy.... :) -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Whew! . > >Yup, it could easily be the remains of a Tantalum cap. Weirdest smell. I >can't believe that the rest of the board could survive something like this >but hey it isn't like the thing is any good as a paper weight! Now to pull >one of the others and figure out what value cap used to live there... > >--Chuck > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 5 23:25:06 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Nope, sorry Gary. All the core memory we have is already hanging on walls > >looking "cool". > > So what is the recommended method of carefully storing a core memory board > on the wall? What kind of anti-static protection are you using? Carefully store? I just nailed it through the center to hang it. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 5 23:29:15 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Nec PC-6001A In-Reply-To: <01be976d$de65de40$d1c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Mike wrote: > I tripped over one of these for $2 at a thrifty. I like the external and > overall design but the video out is responding dissappointingly to initial > probes. The only thing on the net I've found at the Obsolete Musuem says > it's an 8k ms basic machine with a cartridge slot that's kinda exidyish > (joystick ports and a speaker too) and what's this wierd printer interface?. > > Seems like a cool little machine. Anyone know about it? Yes, I've got a complete system in my collection with the expansion chassis and manuals and such. I can try digging it out to make a copy of the relevant manuals and send them to you. Standard disclaimer on time applies :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 5 23:51:16 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Greg Linder wrote: > installed in. I agree with the cardboard solution- Whenever I mount drives > of any type that I don't have many of I always either cover the bare metal > case with contact paper or a piece of carboard or something > non-conductive. A strip of mylar or other thick, durable plastic-like material cut from a sheet would probably be even better. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From donm at cts.com Thu May 6 00:06:55 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Bootable floppy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is it possible to make a bootable floppy for a VAXStation 2000 or is the system too large for the disk? If it is possible, what is the procedure? - don From mbg at world.std.com Thu May 6 00:21:05 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX References: <990505221722.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <199905060521.AA11594@world.std.com> >Let me see if I've a few facts straight here. This is a BA213 you're >talking about, and this is the same backplane as would be in a DECserver >550. Now for the really STUPID question, Q/CD means that all slots are >full height, like the first 3 or 4 on a BA123. Yes, exactly... quad-high slots, Q22/CD all the way across. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Thu May 6 00:22:25 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory Message-ID: <199905060522.AA12017@world.std.com> >Carefully store? I just nailed it through the center to hang it. Ouch... that image really hurts... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu May 6 00:25:00 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: <199905060522.AA12017@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999, Megan wrote: > Ouch... that image really hurts... Yeah, then I spray-painted it neon pink because I didn't like the original color. Core memory is cool. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 6 00:33:01 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: Bootable floppy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990505223104.00c6fd90@mcmanis.com> At 10:06 PM 5/5/99 -0700, Don wrote: >Is it possible to make a bootable floppy for a VAXStation 2000 or is the >system too large for the disk? Yes its possible, however it is _lots_ easier to boot it from the network if you've got a spare PeeCee lying about and can put a free UNIX on it. The magic there is "mop server" and there are versions for all flavors. On a unix box I believe you can use DD to copy out an image to the disk, this is one of the ways that NetBSD can be bootstrapped, the FAQ at www.netbsd.org (follow the links to the VAX FAQ) has better instructions. --Chuck From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Thu May 6 00:29:23 1999 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: FW: FREE!!! PDP-11/34A Complete System In-Reply-To: <7gq6sh$49e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <7gq6sh$49e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID: <3731287d.301006504@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Anyone in or near Philadelphia want a free PDP-11/34A? If so, check this out... -=-=- -=-=- On Wed, 05 May 1999 19:41:05 GMT, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>From: moorem@bucks.edu >>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 >>Subject: FREE!!! PDP-11/34A Complete System >>Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:41:05 GMT >>Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion >>Lines: 10 >>Message-ID: <7gq6sh$49e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.112.54.10 >>X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed May 05 19:41:05 1999 GMT >>X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) >>X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x15.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 192.112.54.10 >>Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net alt.sys.pdp11:87 >> >>Free for the taking: Complete PDP-11/34A system in 6 foot 22" rack. >>Includes processor, memory, 2 RL02 disk drives, 1 RK05F disk drive >>(a fixed disk seen as 2 RK05 removables). This unit has been sitting >>in my barn for 10 years or so and is kind of dirty but it ran when I >>parked it! Terms: All or nothing, you pick up. Location: Eastern PA >>(central Bucks county, north of Phila.). Email: moorem@bucks.edu >>Thanks!!! >> >>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- >>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..." From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 6 00:44:29 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: console pinout? Message-ID: <4.1.19990505223917.00c0b100@mcmanis.com> Ok, I give up, where the heck does one find the pin-out for the weird not-quite-an-RJ-45 connector that connects the console to the VAX? I've got a cable that has the weird connetor on it (both ends :-() which no doubt plugs right into a VTxxx VAX Console Terminal but I'm more interested in something like a serial port of a PC pretending its a VTxxx console terminal. I figure I'll cut this cable in half, crimp on an RJ45 that I can plug into one of those DB-9 hood things. --Chuck From mbg at world.std.com Thu May 6 00:51:29 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory Message-ID: <199905060551.AA25861@world.std.com> >> Ouch... that image really hurts... > >Yeah, then I spray-painted it neon pink because I didn't like the original >color. Core memory is cool. No... that's K3WL! Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 6 01:10:23 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: console pinout? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505223917.00c0b100@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990505230856.00b33d50@mcmanis.com> I know bad form to follow up my own question, but I did check the VAX FAQ which mentioned a 6 pin MMJ-423 connector but since the nomenclature isn't familiar to me I don't know if this is the one I'm talking about :-) (Also that one isn't close to RS-232 so its a bit worrisome :-) --Chuck From eric at brouhaha.com Thu May 6 01:11:05 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:52 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: (healyzh@aracnet.com) References: <373080EF.CDAFFEF@sbus.com> Message-ID: <19990506061105.9690.qmail@brouhaha.com> > So what is the recommended method of carefully storing a core memory board > on the wall? What kind of anti-static protection are you using? Cores aren't static-sensitive. Core drive electronics, on the other hand... From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 6 01:47:53 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Memory differences between KA630 and KA650 Message-ID: <4.1.19990505234607.009d6b50@mcmanis.com> Ok, this one is puzzling me. Everyone said "you need new memory for the KA650." Why? The connectors appear to be identical, although the 650 supports ECC memory (but does it require it?) Enquiring minds want to know! --Chuck From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu May 6 01:44:25 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX Message-ID: <990506024425.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> >>>Yep, you got it! [Q/CD all across] >> >>Cool, also the wide spacing to allow the metal covers fooled me for a >>minute, there is only 11 slots in these puppies. >Let me see if I've a few facts straight here. This is a BA213 you're >talking about, and this is the same backplane as would be in a DECserver >550. Right. Note that there are Skunk Box enclosures where the first 3 or 4 or 6 slots aren't Q-bus at all. Various 4000-xxx series boxes, in particular. > Now for the really STUPID question, Q/CD means that all slots are >full height, like the first 3 or 4 on a BA123. Again, on the nose! Tim. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu May 6 01:47:55 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: console pinout? Message-ID: <990506024755.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> >Ok, I give up, where the heck does one find the pin-out for the weird >not-quite-an-RJ-45 connector that connects the console to the VAX? I've got >a cable that has the weird connetor on it (both ends :-() which no doubt >plugs right into a VTxxx VAX Console Terminal but I'm more interested in >something like a serial port of a PC pretending its a VTxxx console >terminal. I figure I'll cut this cable in half, crimp on an RJ45 that I can >plug into one of those DB-9 hood things. The "weird connector" (DEC MMJ=Modified Modular Jack) is widely available. Perhaps the easiest mail-order source, should you not have any decent local electronics shops, is Digi-Key ( www.digikey.com ). From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu May 6 01:52:40 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Bootable floppy? Message-ID: <990506025240.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> >Is it possible to make a bootable floppy for a VAXStation 2000 or is the >system too large for the disk? A VMS installation is way too large for a single floppy, of course. I think a VMS distribution or backup onto floppies is about as cruel as the Wagner ring cycle on 45's! But if you're into self-abuse and huge piles of floppy disks, it is possible. >If it is possible, what is the procedure? It is possible, of course. Boot VMS, log in as the system manager, and do a @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT to build the standalone backup tool on floppies. You can then do a backup of the system disk onto floppies (preferably using the STABACKIT kit you just generated to test your copy of standalone backup). But if at all possible, get a tape drive! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From Jgzabol at aol.com Thu May 6 01:54:02 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: PDP11 Plessey disk drive info needed Message-ID: <34e3e5ad.2462968a@aol.com> In einer eMail vom 05.05.99 21:02:46, schreibt Tony: << > That is EXACTLY what I need - the connector has the letters above imprinted, > and the meaning of the signals I have from the DEC docs. This is precisely the > RK-11 Drive Bus. It's _almost_ the RK11 bus. Not suprising since the Diablo/DRI model 30 was sold by DEC as the RK02/RK03 for a time. I've cabled one up to an RK11-C, and it is, indeed, just a cable. The problem is in the drive select lines. RK11-C's use 1-of-4 code (you assert one of 4 lines, like on a floppy drive). RK11-D's use a 3 bit binary selection code. RK05s can handle either (there's a signal on the connector of an RK05 that is pulled low by an RK11-D to indicate this). RK02's, etc can't. That's why you'll need a couple of chips to do the interfacing. -tony >> Hi Tony, I am aware of that fact. It is of course a very simple decoder. Since I will need to mate two different cables (one from the drive with the 42-pin connector, and another one from the controller with the bus paddle) I will have a little intermediate board anyway, where this can easily be put. First of all, of course, I will need to verify that the Plessey interface is in fact identical to the Diablo one; since the connector is the same, I am in good hope. Regards John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu May 6 07:37:14 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: HP 9000 840S In-Reply-To: <199905060217.TAA30246@bart.allegro.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990505202836.4fb7190c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990506073714.3caf5288@intellistar.net> Stan, The guy wants $300 for it. Still interested? I think they're may be a second cabinet with it but I'm not sure. It's not small and shipping would probably cost a fortune. I'll help someone if they want to get it but I don't have a place to keep it for more than a FEW days. FWIW this did come from Kennedy Space Center so chances are that it's loaded with options. I think I remember seeing a tag that said it had option 531AA1. Joe At 07:17 PM 5/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >Re: > HP 9000 840S > >> I have a chance to pick up one of these. Does anyone know anything about them? > >The 9000/840 was HP's first PA-RISC HP 9000. It's the same >hardware as the HP 3000/930, and has an 8 MHz clock. They >generally shipped with something like 24 MB, IIRC (which wasn't >enough). > >I think you should take it! If not, post here...a couple of us might be >interested. > >SS > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu May 6 07:46:22 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: console pinout? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505223917.00c0b100@mcmanis.com> from Chuck McManis at "May 5, 1999 10:44:29 pm" Message-ID: <199905061246.IAA00802@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > Ok, I give up, where the heck does one find the pin-out for the weird > not-quite-an-RJ-45 connector that connects the console to the VAX? I've got > a cable that has the weird connetor on it (both ends :-() which no doubt > plugs right into a VTxxx VAX Console Terminal but I'm more interested in > something like a serial port of a PC pretending its a VTxxx console > terminal. I figure I'll cut this cable in half, crimp on an RJ45 that I can > plug into one of those DB-9 hood things. > > > --Chuck > > > I've got a cable with an MMJ on one end and a broken MMJ on the other and I'm looking for a serial connector with MMJ's on both. Wanna swap 'em? Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From danburrows at mindspring.com Thu May 6 08:16:07 1999 From: danburrows at mindspring.com (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: console pinout? Message-ID: <01ca01be97c2$9e13cd20$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> People looking for MMJ connectors / adapters contact me off list. I have a fair stock of adapters and the crimpers with a few ends. Dan >> Ok, I give up, where the heck does one find the pin-out for the weird >> not-quite-an-RJ-45 connector that connects the console to the VAX? I've got >> a cable that has the weird connetor on it (both ends :-() which no doubt >> plugs right into a VTxxx VAX Console Terminal but I'm more interested in >> something like a serial port of a PC pretending its a VTxxx console >> terminal. I figure I'll cut this cable in half, crimp on an RJ45 that I can >> plug into one of those DB-9 hood things. >> >> >> --Chuck >> >> >> > >I've got a cable with an MMJ on one end and a broken MMJ on the other >and I'm looking for a serial connector with MMJ's on both. > >Wanna swap 'em? > >Bill > >--- > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org > Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, > The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 08:28:23 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Bootable floppy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > > Is it possible to make a bootable floppy for a VAXStation 2000 or is the > system too large for the disk? Of what? VMS? the answer is yes, sorta. Standalone backup is one case where it fits on a RX33 (1.2mb 5.25). Also VMboot. The kernal for VMS is 1-2mb and would never fit. > If it is possible, what is the procedure? Varies depending on the version and the utility. Allison From steverob at hotoffice.com Thu May 6 08:29:35 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: HP 9000 840S Message-ID: <01BE97A2.F50BA5F0.steverob@hotoffice.com> > > Joe > > At 07:17 PM 5/5/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Re: > > HP 9000 840S > > > >> I have a chance to pick up one of these. Does anyone know anything > about them? > > > >The 9000/840 was HP's first PA-RISC HP 9000. It's the same > >hardware as the HP 3000/930, and has an 8 MHz clock. They > >generally shipped with something like 24 MB, IIRC (which wasn't > >enough). > > > >I think you should take it! If not, post here...a couple of us might be > >interested. > > > >SS > > > Joe, I'm definitely interested: Can you provide more details? Is the system complete? Is the OS installed? I'm assuming it's in Central Florida? TIA, Steve Robertson - From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu May 6 08:32:12 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Bootable floppy? Message-ID: <990506093212.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> >> Is it possible to make a bootable floppy for a VAXStation 2000 or is the >> system too large for the disk? > >Of what? VMS? the answer is yes, sorta. Standalone backup is one case >where it fits on a RX33 (1.2mb 5.25). Maybe 10 years ago it fit on a single RX33. For a recent version of VMS it is more like 3 RX33's. Tim. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 08:33:44 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: console pinout? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505230856.00b33d50@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > I know bad form to follow up my own question, but I did check the VAX FAQ > which mentioned a 6 pin MMJ-423 connector but since the nomenclature isn't > familiar to me I don't know if this is the one I'm talking about :-) (Also > that one isn't close to RS-232 so its a bit worrisome :-) Rs232 and rs423 are compatable. 423 is the subset for use with the MMJ connector (offset lock RJ conector). Once you have the pinout you can use any terminal or terminal emulator that has a DB9/25/mmj. Allison From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu May 6 08:29:57 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Lots of machines available Message-ID: <80256769.004AA24D.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > Last time I said I beat up some PCs, many of you were disturbed. So this > time, I'm warning you before I do it. There are 8 DEC LPv+ 425dx and > 433dx machines. They are all 486 DX with RAM from 0 to 16 MB, some have > hard drives around 200 MB, some should have OS/2. They are being thrown > away because they have miscellaneous problems, and we haven't been able > to fix them. I haven't tried, so I don't know what the problems are. > Anyway, first come, first served. Price is 1.2 * shipping. Memories from 0 to 16MB? If there are any 4MB, 30pin parity simms in that lot, I'll happily pay 120% of shipping for a set of four. Philip. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 08:39:09 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Memory differences between KA630 and KA650 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505234607.009d6b50@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: > Everyone said "you need new memory for the KA650." Why? > > The connectors appear to be identical, although the 650 supports ECC memory > (but does it require it?) Enquiring minds want to know! The connectors are differently positioned and the older MS630 is far to slow to keep up. They are incompatable. Allison From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu May 6 08:45:51 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: OT: neon lamps from previous post Message-ID: <80256769.004C16C1.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Is this really off topic? It's really interesting anyway. > Simple oscillator using NE-2: > > 90 VDC > | > > > < 470K > > > < > | > +------+ > | | > (:)NE2 _ > | - .1 uF 100V > | | > +------+ > | > GND Hmm. The capacitor charges through the resistor until the neon strikes. Since the neon now draws more current than comes through the resistor, the capacitor discharges through the neon until the neon extinguishes. Process repeats. Neat. I suppose that if the resistor is too small, the neon doesn't extinguish, but the capacitor merely discharges until it reaches the steady state voltage of the neon at the current through the resistor. I like it! Flip flop should be easy too. This one looks rather like an ECL logic gate: +V DC | < > < > | +--+--+ | | (:) (:) | | A--+ +--B | | > > < < > > < < | | GND GND Pull A to ground. Lefthand neon lights. Voltage on right hand neon too low to maintain discharge and it goes out. Same works for B - RH neon lights and voltage at the common anode too low to maintain LH neon, which goes out. Don't know the component values though. Outputs are also A and B. You may need pull-up resistors on them, depending on what you're driving. Fun. Keep neons in light-tight containers, though! Are there circuits in which optically coupled neons are useful? Philip. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu May 6 09:17:23 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: References: <199905060522.AA12017@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990506091723.010bfc40@vpwisfirewall> At 10:25 PM 5/5/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >Yeah, then I spray-painted it neon pink because I didn't like the original >color. Core memory is cool. No way. It wouldn't be Art until you made it into a dress, as a commentary on the way technology has shaped our lives. - John From wrking at tsoft.com Thu May 6 09:57:36 1999 From: wrking at tsoft.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Dec RL01 drive problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004801be97d0$c770c200$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 12:01 PM > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: Re: Dec RL01 drive problem > > The speed behaviour might be correct. The speed of the spindle motor in > an RL01 is regulated, and the feedback is taken from the sector > transducer. Without a pack in place, there will be no sector pulses, so > no feedback, so the logic will think the motor is stopped and will try to > speed it up. > > If the heads are attempting to load, then the drive thinks the pack is > spinning at the right speed. The spindle motor speed being regulated explains why things slow down. They just slow a little too much. The motor can't be doing any more than 120 RPM when the heads attempt to load. > > My first thought is that for some reason the heads are not detecting the > servo pattern on the disk, so they can't lock to it. I assume you're > using a known-good RL01 pack -- and not just some pack that looks right, > an RL02 pack, or one that has been bulk-erased. Well the answer is yes and no. I just purchased two DEC brand RL01 packs from Keyways. They came "as-is" since Mitch didn't have a drive to test them on. Both packs behave the same. > > Are the heads clean and correctly connected to the R/W module (central > module in the drive chassis)? Heads look clean and all connectors within the drive look firmly seated. The head assembly moves freely. > > If yes to both of those, then we need to troubleshoot the servo logic. I > have the printset and tech manual here. You'll need a 'scope, though. I'm sure I can find one in a couple of days. Is there anything else that should be checked first (power supply)? > > -tony > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 6 10:20:49 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <990506024425.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 6, 99 02:44:25 am Message-ID: <199905061520.IAA06529@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 686 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990506/64a1195a/attachment.ksh From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu May 6 10:47:05 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Looking for Intel pds Prom programming software In-Reply-To: <199905051055.DAA16579@saul5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: I do have some Isis documentation but no way to convert to electronic format at the moment. George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Wed, 5 May 1999, Derek Peschel wrote: > > I'm trying to put together a Prom Programming station based on the iPDS > > (Intel's Isis luggable) computer. I've managed to locate the OS, and some > > applications but am still in need of the Prom programming software. I > > think it was titled 'IPPS'. > > Sorry, I can't help you. I was actually going to ask _you_ some questions. > You may want to try Intel's site, though. They have a small amount of ISIS > stuff there (an emulator and maybe some other things). It's very > disorganized -- you have to use the search function. Intel doesn't seem to > care about such ancient history. > > Do you have any documentation for ISIS? I tried playing with the emulator > and couldn't manage to do anything. I'm mainly wondering what features ISIS > provides as an operating system and what its commands are. > > It's also very enlightening to compare ISIS to CP/M. Although CP/M was > designed with an external interface that looked sort of like DEC's PDP-11 > OSs, internally CP/M seems to have been inspired by ISIS to some degree. I > forget why I came to that conclusion (because I don't have the appropriate > articles in front of me) but I know the register conventions were similar > and I think the modular construction, memory layout, etc., may have been > similar too. > > The funny thing is, CP/M has some silly flaws that shouldn't have happened, > because ISIS doesn't have those flaws! Two especially come to mind: > > - No supported way to tell where in memory the parts of CP/M are. > DRI's approach of "assemble CP/M for your particular system" is > only workable for hobbyists that build and program their own > machines and never use anyone else's binaries. I think ISIS has > a system call that gives you the current memory layout. > > - Not necessarily easy to get to the non-file parts of a disk > (the boot tracks, directory blocks, etc.) I've heard ISIS had > a number of fake "files" for the non-file parts of a disk, which > made disk hacking a lot easier. > > - Warm boots. I never understood why the warm boot in CP/M was > combined with the routines to reread a disk directory. They are > not the same thing. Changing disks is such a nuisance. Oddly, > CP/M keeps enough information in memory to tell it that the > directory is invalid... so why can't it just read the new > disk instead of giving an error? I forget if ISIS solved this > problem as well. > > Of course CP/M eventually got some features that I doubt ISIS ever had > (longer file names, network and graphics support, three different hardware > platforms, more software). > > -- Derek > > From dogas at leading.net Thu May 6 11:08:09 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Nec PC-6001A Message-ID: <01be97da$a27390e0$d9c962cf@devlaptop> -From: Sellam Ismail > >Yes, I've got a complete system in my collection with the expansion >chassis and manuals and such. I can try digging it out to make a copy of >the relevant manuals and send them to you. Standard disclaimer on time >applies :) You are a veratible fount of goodies and generosity. What's in the expansion chassis? Thanks - Mike From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 6 11:26:21 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Console and Re: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <199905061520.IAA06529@shell2.aracnet.com> References: <990506024425.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990506092239.03ce1f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 08:20 AM 5/6/99 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: >Great, one time I'd prefer to be wrong..... That will really cut down the >usefulness of that chassis :^( Think of it as a sideways BA11-N with a few more slots :-) Tim, et al. You quoted the FAQ (which I also read) as needing to connect "ground" to pin 7 but on the MMJ connector there is no "ground" pin. Just the two differential drive TD and RD pairs. This is the question I had, how to handle the ground situation.Do I : 1) Connect TD- and RD- together and then make those ground? 2) Use one of TD- or RD- ? 3) None of the above, do something else? --Chuck From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 11:26:21 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: OT: neon lamps from previous post In-Reply-To: <80256769.004C16C1.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: > Flip flop should be easy too. This one looks rather like an ECL logic gate: > > +V DC > | > < > > > < > > > | > +--+--+ > | | > (:) (:) > | | > A--+ +--B > | | > > > > < < > > > > < < > | | > GND GND > > Pull A to ground. Lefthand neon lights. Voltage on right hand neon too low to > maintain discharge and it goes out. Same works for B - RH neon lights and > voltage at the common anode too low to maintain LH neon, which goes out. Nope! If left is not list then there is no current flow across the resistor. To ignite the left lamp a voltage (negative maybe 25V) would have to be applied at A. To extinguish left a voltage of +25(or more) volts would have to be applied. Generally this kind of logic is pulse coupled using transformers or capacitors. Note a bistable was done in the case mentioned with one Neon. Doing ascii logic from telnet seesion is far to slow for me to give a complete circuit. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 11:27:53 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Console and Re: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990506092239.03ce1f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: > You quoted the FAQ (which I also read) as needing to connect "ground" to > pin 7 but on the MMJ connector there is no "ground" pin. Just the two > differential drive TD and RD pairs. This is the question I had, how to > handle the ground situation.Do I : > 1) Connect TD- and RD- together and then make those ground? > 2) Use one of TD- or RD- ? > 3) None of the above, do something else? > > --Chuck ?????! Check again, your using RS422 differential not 423. Allison > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu May 6 11:28:01 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Sanyo ??C-555 spotted at Beaverton Oregon Goodwill In-Reply-To: <01be97da$a27390e0$d9c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: Model number obscured by price tag. Doesn't have a keyboard. Sort of looks like a floppy P-box but I noticed it had video and keyboard connections on the back. Any of you folks looking for one of these beasts? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu May 6 11:40:27 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: OT: neon lamps from previous post Message-ID: <80256769.005C1346.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> Flip flop should be easy too. This one looks rather like an ECL logic gate: >> >> +V DC >> | >> < >> > >> < >> > >> | >> +--+--+ >> | | >> (:) (:) >> | | >> A--+ +--B >> | | >> > > >> < < >> > > >> < < >> | | >> GND GND >> >> Pull A to ground. Lefthand neon lights. Voltage on right hand neon too low to >> maintain discharge and it goes out. Same works for B - RH neon lights and >> voltage at the common anode too low to maintain LH neon, which goes out. > > Nope! If left is not list then there is no current flow across the > resistor. To ignite the left lamp a voltage (negative maybe 25V) would > have to be applied at A. To extinguish left a voltage of +25(or more) I see what you mean. (Careless of me!) A and B would definitely need pull-ups, but I think it could work. The initial current when you apply the negative pulse to one input should drop the voltage at the common anode sufficiently to extinguish the other neon. > volts would have to be applied. Generally this kind of logic is pulse > coupled using transformers or capacitors. Note a bistable was done in the > case mentioned with one Neon. > > Doing ascii logic from telnet seesion is far to slow for me to give a > complete circuit. Don't post a circuit yet - I want to think about the one-neon flipflop. Theoretically possible, anyway - the two states are on and off (now why does that sound vacuous?). Philip. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu May 6 13:58:28 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990506091723.010bfc40@vpwisfirewall> References: Message-ID: <199905061659.SAA25370@horus.mch.sni.de> > >Yeah, then I spray-painted it neon pink because I didn't like the original > >color. Core memory is cool. > No way. It wouldn't be Art until you made it into a dress, as a > commentary on the way technology has shaped our lives. Wouldn't it be art if punch holes into ? Or just make up paterns by cracking core rings ? Anyway, cracking core rings is almost as nice as poping bubble wrapers. Everybody should at least once feel the difference in poping '60 and '70s core planes ... BTW: Sam, adding spray paint _may_ destroy this tactile gourmet sensation. Gruss H. (Of Keyboard and away for unknown time right after this message :) -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jim_willing at mail.intel.com Thu May 6 12:07:33 1999 From: jim_willing at mail.intel.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Cromemco Z-2 cabinets] Message-ID: <3731CC55.3246C6CC@mail.intel.com> Forwarded from newsgroup 'comp.os.cpm', reply to original poster if interested. -jim -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Ernst C.Land, Jr." Subject: Cromemco Z-2 cabinets Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:10:56 -0500 Size: 1412 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990506/895ff448/attachment.mht From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu May 6 12:07:33 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Nec PC-6001A In-Reply-To: <01be97da$a27390e0$d9c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999, Mike wrote: > -From: Sellam Ismail > > > >Yes, I've got a complete system in my collection with the expansion > >chassis and manuals and such. I can try digging it out to make a copy of > >the relevant manuals and send them to you. Standard disclaimer on time > >applies :) > > You are a veratible fount of goodies and generosity. What's in the > expansion chassis? I believe it has some additional I/O ports as well as two 5.25" full height floppy drives. Its been a while since I've seen it and my memory is toast these days, but I know pretty much where it is. Next time I'm at my warehouse I'll crack it open and report back. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From mark_k at iname.com Thu May 6 13:38:57 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive Message-ID: Hi, The other day I bought a used Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" 1.2MB floppy drive, in order to archive various old 5.25" disks. The drive works, but a whining sound is made when the drive is spinning. This is caused by the mounting of the plastic spinny thing (not sure of the technical term :) which sandwiches the disk hub to the motor spindle vibrating. This is held in place by a C-clip. Pressing lightly, really just touching the spindle of the plastic part stops the whining. My drive may be missing its top casing, if there should be one. Maybe a piece of rubber or something fixed to the top casing presses the spindle in complete drives? I thought of fixing the whining by using a piece of sticking plaster. Any better ideas? Are these drives supposed to have a top casing? In my one I can see the head assembly and stepper motor moving. -- Mark From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu May 6 12:34:29 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Sanyo ??C-555 spotted at Beaverton Oregon Goodwill Message-ID: In a message dated 99-05-06 12:32:28 EDT, you write: > Model number obscured by price tag. Doesn't have a keyboard. Sort of > looks like a floppy P-box but I noticed it had video and keyboard > connections on the back. > > Any of you folks looking for one of these beasts? > isn't that the hated pc-almost-compatible computer? From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 6 13:11:06 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Console and Re: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990506092239.03ce1f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990506104135.03ddebf0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 12:27 PM 5/6/99 -0400, allisonp@world.std.com wrote: >?????! Check again, your using RS422 differential not 423. >Allison Sorry, I've become lost. There are many numbers, some of which relate to signal levels and some of which relate to connector formats. Turns out I wasn't reading the FAQ closely enough, the answer is that RD- and TX- both connect to ground (pin 7) --Chuck From cmcmanis at freegate.com Thu May 6 13:18:07 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DSSI Message-ID: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> 1) Can a TK70 drive read/write TK50 tapes? I'm looking for media for the TK70 to test it and all I've found so far are TK50 tapes (or are they the same tape?) 2) What termination requirements are there on DSSI disks? I powered up the two RF71's and the KQSFA DSSI controller in the BA213, they spun up and the ready lights were on but when UNIX probed the controller it saw only one drive and when I tried to read that drive its FAULT light started flashing. The cabinet is set up to connect the card to a ribbon cable that connects both drives and then ends at a funky high density connector (looks a lot like SCSI-2). Thanks, --Chuck McManis From sethm at loomcom.com Thu May 6 13:25:55 1999 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DSSI In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > 1) Can a TK70 drive read/write TK50 tapes? I'm looking for media for the > TK70 to test it and all I've found so far are TK50 tapes (or are they the > same tape?) It can read TK50, but not write them. Inserting a TK50 cartridge into a TK70 drive will automatically turn on the "write protect" light. TK50 cartridges are 95MB, and TK70 are, I _believe_, around 200MB. Don't quote me on the TK70 size, though :) > 2) What termination requirements are there on DSSI disks? I powered up the > two RF71's and the KQSFA DSSI controller in the BA213, they spun up and the > ready lights were on but when UNIX probed the controller it saw only one > drive and when I tried to read that drive its FAULT light started flashing. > The cabinet is set up to connect the card to a ribbon cable that connects > both drives and then ends at a funky high density connector (looks a lot > like SCSI-2). I'm not too sure about this. I know that on my MicroVAX 3800, the DSSI disks each have the main cable (high density 50 pin, as you described) running to it, and also a second smaller cable for ID select running to the front panel, which has the ID jumpers on it. In my case, the DSSI disks are RF71 and RF72 drives. At the end of the chain I have a small 50-pin terminator. It looks to me just like a 50 pin SCSI terminator, except I'm sure it's different. I'll look up the part number for you when I get home. > Thanks, > --Chuck McManis -Seth -- "You know, if there's one thing more destructive | Seth J. Morabito than a hydrogen bomb, it's a hydrogen bomb strapped | sethm@loomcom.com to the back of a MANLY MAN!!!" [James "Kibo" Parry] | Perth ==> * From donm at cts.com Thu May 6 13:26:27 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Bootable floppy? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505223104.00c6fd90@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 10:06 PM 5/5/99 -0700, Don wrote: > >Is it possible to make a bootable floppy for a VAXStation 2000 or is the > >system too large for the disk? > > Yes its possible, however it is _lots_ easier to boot it from the network > if you've got a spare PeeCee lying about and can put a free UNIX on it. The > magic there is "mop server" and there are versions for all flavors. > > On a unix box I believe you can use DD to copy out an image to the disk, > this is one of the ways that NetBSD can be bootstrapped, the FAQ at > www.netbsd.org (follow the links to the VAX FAQ) has better instructions. > > --Chuck > Thanks! I'll check it out. I was, in fact, thinking VMS when I posed the question but I'll look at NetBSD also. - don From donm at cts.com Thu May 6 13:44:43 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Bootable floppy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > On Wed, 5 May 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > > Is it possible to make a bootable floppy for a VAXStation 2000 or is the > > system too large for the disk? > > Of what? VMS? the answer is yes, sorta. Standalone backup is one case > where it fits on a RX33 (1.2mb 5.25). Also VMboot. The kernal for VMS is > 1-2mb and would never fit. > > > If it is possible, what is the procedure? > > Varies depending on the version and the utility. Version in question is 5.5. - don > Allison > > From donm at cts.com Thu May 6 13:37:32 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Bootable floppy? In-Reply-To: <990506025240.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > >Is it possible to make a bootable floppy for a VAXStation 2000 or is the > >system too large for the disk? > > A VMS installation is way too large for a single floppy, of course. > I think a VMS distribution or backup onto floppies is about as cruel > as the Wagner ring cycle on 45's! But if you're into self-abuse > and huge piles of floppy disks, it is possible. OK, that rather confirms my suspicion. Thanks, Tim. > >If it is possible, what is the procedure? > > It is possible, of course. Boot VMS, log in as the system manager, > and do a @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT to build the standalone backup tool > on floppies. You can then do a backup of the system disk onto floppies > (preferably using the STABACKIT kit you just generated to test your > copy of standalone backup). But if at all possible, get a tape drive! Good information, even if I never use it. More thanks. - don > -- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > From donm at cts.com Thu May 6 14:06:35 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DSSI In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > 1) Can a TK70 drive read/write TK50 tapes? I'm looking for media for the > TK70 to test it and all I've found so far are TK50 tapes (or are they the > same tape?) I seem to recall reading that the TK70 tape is a Compac II while the TK50 is Compac. A while ago, I noted some TK70s at a local surplus outfit for a few bucks apiece. Let me know if you want me to pursue it for you. - don > 2) What termination requirements are there on DSSI disks? I powered up the > two RF71's and the KQSFA DSSI controller in the BA213, they spun up and the > ready lights were on but when UNIX probed the controller it saw only one > drive and when I tried to read that drive its FAULT light started flashing. > The cabinet is set up to connect the card to a ribbon cable that connects > both drives and then ends at a funky high density connector (looks a lot > like SCSI-2). > > Thanks, > --Chuck McManis > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Thu May 6 14:11:13 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Console and Re: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: (allisonp@world.std.com) References: Message-ID: <19990506191113.13553.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck wrote: > > You quoted the FAQ (which I also read) as needing to connect "ground" to > > pin 7 but on the MMJ connector there is no "ground" pin. Just the two > > differential drive TD and RD pairs. This is the question I had, how to > > handle the ground situation.Do I : > > 1) Connect TD- and RD- together and then make those ground? > > 2) Use one of TD- or RD- ? > > 3) None of the above, do something else? Allison wrote: > ?????! Check again, your using RS422 differential not 423. I don't know anything about DEC MMJ wiring. But various systems use drivers and receivers that are compatible with both EIA-422 and 423. IIRC, to use 422 drivers for 423, you use the TX- output, and to use 422 receivers for 423, you ground RX+ and use the RX- input. From djenner at halcyon.com Thu May 6 14:19:22 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: 35pin SIMMs Message-ID: <3731EB3A.3A3B7A27@halcyon.com> I ran across three 35-pin, 256 KB, non-parity SIMMs from a Dell proprietary memory board from 1987. Yes, that's 35-- the numbers are clearly marked on the SIMM. If anyone wants these, drop me a message, and I'll send them to you. Thanks, Dave From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu May 6 16:19:31 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Read this. In-Reply-To: References: <990506025240.24e000fa@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <199905061920.VAA00905@horus.mch.sni.de> nice reading on http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/199905/199905.htm have a look. H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu May 6 14:36:12 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Read this. In-Reply-To: <199905061920.VAA00905@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at May 6, 99 09:20:31 pm Message-ID: <199905061936.MAA08876@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 529 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990506/475e71e2/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu May 6 14:36:42 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: 35pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: <3731EB3A.3A3B7A27@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at "May 6, 1999 12:19:22 pm" Message-ID: <199905061936.TAA04298@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > I ran across three 35-pin, 256 KB, non-parity SIMMs from a > Dell proprietary memory board from 1987. Yes, that's 35-- > the numbers are clearly marked on the SIMM. > > If anyone wants these, drop me a message, and I'll send > them to you. > Assuming someone else doesnt need these for something, i would like to have them. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu May 6 14:41:49 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: URLs In-Reply-To: <199905061920.VAA00905@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: Not everybody uses this week's web browser. In fact SOME people use e-mail programs that are NOT part of a current "state-of-the-art" web browser. To go view a web site is still perfectly feasible, but it may require exiting the mail program, and starting up a separate program for web browsing; or even logging out and logging into a different account; or even switching over to a different computer. NOT JUST "clicking" on a spot in the mail message! Therefore, when you have a great web site that you'd like to share, wouldn't it be NICE to say a sentence or so about what it is; rather than just: "Look at http://www...." -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 14:44:21 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Are these drives supposed to have a top casing? In my one I can see the head > assembly and stepper motor moving. > No. Likely the door closer is worn and the arm that lowers the spindle is not getting pushed down enough. I have one in front of me. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 14:46:11 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DSSI In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: > 1) Can a TK70 drive read/write TK50 tapes? I'm looking for media for the > TK70 to test it and all I've found so far are TK50 tapes (or are they the > same tape?) Yes read only. TK70 is different media and that makes th50s unreliable for writing. allison From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu May 6 16:54:47 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: URLs In-Reply-To: References: <199905061920.VAA00905@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199905061955.VAA02062@horus.mch.sni.de> > Not everybody uses this week's web browser. > In fact SOME people use e-mail programs that are NOT part of a current > "state-of-the-art" web browser. To go view a web site is still perfectly > feasible, but it may require exiting the mail program, and starting up a > separate program for web browsing; or even logging out and logging into a > different account; or even switching over to a different computer. > NOT JUST "clicking" on a spot in the mail message! > Therefore, when you have a great web site that you'd like to share, > wouldn't it be NICE to say a sentence or so about what it is; rather than > just: "Look at http://www...." This may be aimed at me - yes, you're right, I never have thought of any problems in bringing up a browser. In fact, I also don't use any fancy integrated software - just a plain mail reader, that's also the reason why I always put an URL on a single line - it is just the easyest way to pick it via your mouse and insert it in the 'Location' box, or on the command line (Yes, my Linux Box never had seen any X - just marking with the GNU mouse, press ALT-Fx, type 'lynx' and insert the marked URL). (Or just configure your PINE in using Lynx as a subshell.) Anyway, sorry for hitting your nerves. Gruss Hans -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu May 6 14:57:27 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Read this. In-Reply-To: <199905061920.VAA00905@horus.mch.sni.de> from Hans Franke at "May 6, 1999 09:20:31 pm" Message-ID: <199905061957.TAA04583@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > nice reading on > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/199905/199905.htm > And Mosaic gets all the credit, while Gopher is completely ignored as a tcp/ip browser... -Lawrence LeMay From donm at cts.com Thu May 6 15:08:51 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > Are these drives supposed to have a top casing? In my one I can see the head > > assembly and stepper motor moving. > > > > No. Likely the door closer is worn and the arm that lowers the spindle is > not getting pushed down enough. I have one in front of me. > > Allison > > That being the case, it shouldn't take much of a tweak with small pliers to bend down the end of the lateral arm that presses the spindle down when the door closer is rotated. - don From donm at cts.com Thu May 6 15:12:13 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:53 2005 Subject: URLs In-Reply-To: <199905061955.VAA02062@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > Not everybody uses this week's web browser. > > > In fact SOME people use e-mail programs that are NOT part of a current > > "state-of-the-art" web browser. To go view a web site is still perfectly > > feasible, but it may require exiting the mail program, and starting up a > > separate program for web browsing; or even logging out and logging into a > > different account; or even switching over to a different computer. > > NOT JUST "clicking" on a spot in the mail message! > > > Therefore, when you have a great web site that you'd like to share, > > wouldn't it be NICE to say a sentence or so about what it is; rather than > > just: "Look at http://www...." > > This may be aimed at me - yes, you're right, I never have > thought of any problems in bringing up a browser. > > In fact, I also don't use any fancy integrated software - just > a plain mail reader, that's also the reason why I always put > an URL on a single line - it is just the easyest way to pick it > via your mouse and insert it in the 'Location' box, or on the > command line (Yes, my Linux Box never had seen any X - just > marking with the GNU mouse, press ALT-Fx, type 'lynx' and insert > the marked URL). (Or just configure your PINE in using Lynx as > a subshell.) Can you give a brief tutorial on configuring PINE that way, Hans? - don > Anyway, sorry for hitting your nerves. > > Gruss > Hans > > -- > Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. > H.Achternbusch > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 13:09:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: core memory In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 5, 99 06:40:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 283 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990506/b13fd5a0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 13:15:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 5, 99 09:51:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 645 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990506/f0fa738a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 13:45:37 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Dec RL01 drive problem In-Reply-To: <004801be97d0$c770c200$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> from "William King" at May 6, 99 07:57:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 776 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990506/9a61e721/attachment.ksh From max82 at surfree.com Thu May 6 17:05:35 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: DEC pc distribution summary Message-ID: Ok, here's the result: Anthony Eros is getting 8 machines LordTyran is getting two more machines which I manage to scrounge up (there is yet another machine available) Jason Willgruber is getting a hard drive. These three people need to e-mail me with their zip codes, and I will tell them how much money they need to send me. There is one last machine up for grabs. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 18:11:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive In-Reply-To: from "Mark" at May 6, 99 06:38:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1629 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/35905c7f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 6 18:19:19 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: URLs In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at May 6, 99 12:41:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1274 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/53af929e/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu May 6 19:08:13 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Sanyo ??C-555 spotted at Beaverton Oregon Goodwill In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990506190813.3b4fd4ee@intellistar.net> At 01:34 PM 5/6/99 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 99-05-06 12:32:28 EDT, you write: > >> Model number obscured by price tag. Doesn't have a keyboard. Sort of >> looks like a floppy P-box but I noticed it had video and keyboard >> connections on the back. >> >> Any of you folks looking for one of these beasts? >> > isn't that the hated pc-almost-compatible computer? Why don't you buy one and find out? Joe > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu May 6 19:11:40 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: HP 9000 840S In-Reply-To: <01BE97A2.F50BA5F0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990506191140.3b4febfa@intellistar.net> At 09:29 AM 5/6/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >> Joe >> >> At 07:17 PM 5/5/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >Re: >> > HP 9000 840S >> > >> >> I have a chance to pick up one of these. Does anyone know anything >> about them? >> > >> >The 9000/840 was HP's first PA-RISC HP 9000. It's the same >> >hardware as the HP 3000/930, and has an 8 MHz clock. They >> >generally shipped with something like 24 MB, IIRC (which wasn't >> >enough). >> > >> >I think you should take it! If not, post here...a couple of us might be >> >interested. >> > >> >SS >> > >> > >Joe, > >I'm definitely interested: > >Can you provide more details? Maybe a few. >Is the system complete? No idea. >Is the OS installed? No idea. >I'm assuming it's in Central Florida? Yes, it's in the Orlando area. Call Barry Bobes at (407) 330-3408. He has it. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu May 6 19:17:50 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: MacIntosh in a box question Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990506191750.3b4fe386@intellistar.net> I found some strange looking rack mount boxs in a salvage place today. They're marked AuudioVision 90. I opened one up and found that it has an Apple Mac Quadra 950 built into it. I rounded up a monitor (but no keyboard) and fired one up. It boots to MacOS then asks for a password. Is there anyway to get around the password other than reinstalling everything? There are six of them available. Is anyone interested in them? They have a huge non-apple power supply, and at least one floppy and one hard drive and all the regular Nu-Bus (?) slots. Another that I opened had two hard drives. Joe From cmcmanis at freegate.com Thu May 6 19:16:49 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: TK70 resolution Message-ID: <4.1.19990506170307.009ba720@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> I disassembled enough of the VAX3800 to get to the TK70 and pulled it out. The maintenence logs were stuck into the top part of the cabinet behind it and apparently this TK70 was replaced in August of 1995. It also had the skid plate attached so it was a simple operation to slip it into the BA123 I've got. The skid plate had a plastic insulator on it between the skid plate and the drive so it looks like the skid plate has to be insulated on these drives. I'm guessing that somewhere in the manual it says: "MUST BE INSULATED, OTHERWISE A SMALL FIRE WILL BREAK OUT NEAR THE POWER CONNECTOR AND SMELL REALLY WEIRD." :-) Its running in the uVaxIII now with no worries. After its had a few hours on it I'll "upgrade" again to the KA655. On an unrelated note, I've got a couple of KFQSA DSSI controllers now, are they usable in a Q/Q backplane? Their CD fingers appear to only touch power and the DMA grant lines (backside of the C connector) --Chuck From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 19:18:49 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: More info RE: KA650 & uVAX Message-ID: <199905070018.AA09376@world.std.com> > On Wed, 5 May 1999, Greg Linder wrote: <> <> > installed in. I agree with the cardboard solution- Whenever I mount dri <> > of any type that I don't have many of I always either cover the bare me <> > case with contact paper or a piece of carboard or something <> > non-conductive. <> <> A strip of mylar or other thick, durable plastic-like material cut from <> sheet would probably be even better. Skip the metal. Don't use it and see how it goes. I have a few in service that way and they are fine. Allison From fluke at mcs.net Thu May 6 19:46:36 1999 From: fluke at mcs.net (Greg Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: console pinout? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990505230856.00b33d50@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: Here's the pinout of the not-quite RJ-45 connector on the vax (In DECspeak it is known as an MMJ port.) Also, if you are intending to hook a terminal to a VAXstation, you need to plug the terminal into the port with the printer on it, not the two arrors. I'm not sure about a 2000, but I know this is the case on the 3100. It's 9600 8N1, if I remember correctly. On my 3100 I popped it open and installed a proper RS-232 DB-25 out the back soldered right onto the board. It was worth it, as I don't have to worry about any silly adapters. The following was actually sent to the Port-VAX NetBSD mailing list by Gunnar Helliesen. This pinout is correct, as I this is what I have used for my MMJ-based machines. -----Attachment----- Pin # Signal name CCIT # Mnemonic ----------------------------------------------------------- 1 Data Terminal Ready 108.2 DTR 2 Transmit Data 104 Tx 3 Signal Ground 102 SG 4 Receive Common --- RxC 5 Receive Data 103 Rx 6 Data Set Ready 107 DSR When viewing the MMJ plug (i.e. the thingy attached to the end of the cable) from below (opposite side of the "lip"), pin # 1 is the leftmost pin. Like this: -------------------- ----------| DTR 1 -| | Tx 2 -| | SG 3 -| | RxC 4 -|--- | Rx 5 -| | ----------| DSR 6 -| | ----------------------- ---End attach--- Enjoy, Greg Linder fluke@mcs.net From thompson at athenet.net Thu May 6 20:29:41 1999 From: thompson at athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DSSI In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > 2) What termination requirements are there on DSSI disks? I powered up the > two RF71's and the KQSFA DSSI controller in the BA213, they spun up and the > ready lights were on but when UNIX probed the controller it saw only one > drive and when I tried to read that drive its FAULT light started flashing. > The cabinet is set up to connect the card to a ribbon cable that connects > both drives and then ends at a funky high density connector (looks a lot > like SCSI-2). If you're running Unix, you probably will want to check the ALLOCLASS and UNITID portions of the failing unit in the DSSI PARAMS configuration via SET HOST /DUP/DSSI [node#] from your >>> prompt. My experience on a mips DEC5400 suggests that unix (in my case, Ultrix) does not like a non-zero allocation class and it likes the UNITID of the drive to match that of the plug. Also keep in mind that you'll have to add some entries similar to this into your kernel for it to recognize new drives or previously unused controllers: controller dssc1 at msi0 msinode 1 controller dssc2 at msi0 msinode 2 disk ra1 at dssc1 drive 1 disk ra2 at dssc2 drive 2 You didn't mention if your unix was Vax ultrix or a bsd port, so your specifics may vary. Paul From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Thu May 6 21:21:28 1999 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries Message-ID: <002301be9830$534f2320$ddb520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Hi all, I know we already had a discussion on that topic but I can't remember what was said since I was not too interested at the time. Some of you mentioned that it was possible to restore "dead" batteries from laptop. The ones in question are NiCads and very much dead as far as I can tell. Any info appreciated Thanks Francois --------------------------------- Note: New e-address: fauradon@mn.mediaone.net Visit the oh so neglected (but recently moved) sanctuary at: people.mn.mediaone.net/fauradon From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 6 21:43:28 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: core... more Message-ID: <199905070243.AA00129@world.std.com> Well thanks to John D. I have a bunch of cores from the early 60s. They are roughly 50mils x 11 mils x 15mils. Cross section of the doughnut is rectangular at 15x11 mils. The reason for such rough measurements is my vernier is only good to .001" and I'd need somthing fancier to be more accurate. By eyeball the 8e cores are smaller! Based on several articles I've read theses will need about 400->600ma to switch and will do so in under 4uS. I will have to test this in a jig. Since the hole is ~20mils several #40 wires should pass through it easily. A simple core frame would be 8x8 (64 bits) and use a 4 wire system as that simplifies the select, inhibit and sense hardware. I'd likely go with late 70s level TTL and transistors to drive these and to sense the outputs I don't know if I'll use transistors (1968 or earlier designs) or comparator chips (aka 1540, 710, 711) will be used. They would also be consistant with 1970s technology. The goal if I can get the time is a 64x8 or 64x12 memory. Not large but enough. Why 64? becuase 1 of 8 decoders were common even in 1970, and the larger the array the more noise from switching. So 8x8 is manageable. Allison From marvin at rain.org Thu May 6 23:34:56 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries References: <002301be9830$534f2320$ddb520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <37326D70.19E0F863@rain.org> Francois wrote: > > Hi all, > I know we already had a discussion on that topic but I can't remember what > was said since I was not too interested at the time. > Some of you mentioned that it was possible to restore "dead" batteries from > laptop. The ones in question are NiCads and very much dead as far as I can > tell. > Any info appreciated There is a chipset that can "restore" dead NiCads, but I don't recall the manufacturer or part number. Basically it measures the voltage, puts a high current short pulse into the cell, waits, measures, and repeats the cycle. A friend of mine made up a test circuit using these chips, and brought quite a few dead cells back to life. My understanding is that a more modern version of that chipset is now being used in the charger circuit for laptops and other NiCad apps. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Fri May 7 00:10:04 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 759 In-Reply-To: References: <199905010702.AAA05692@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199905070510.PAA23658@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:28 04/05/99 -0600, Mark Tapley wrote: >>r. said: >>On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, Huw Davies wrote: > >>The NeXTs don't even really have power switches. Can we please get the attributions right - I never wrote anything about NeXT boxes - I've always wanted one but I've never seen one in the flesh, let alone fondled one :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From mark_metzler at xoommail.com Fri May 7 01:09:46 1999 From: mark_metzler at xoommail.com (Mark Metzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: core memory Message-ID: <199905070609.XAA28040@www2.xoommail.com> At 10:25 PM 5/5/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >Yeah, then I spray-painted it neon pink because I didn't like the original >color. Core memory is cool. No way. It wouldn't be Art until you made it into a dress, as a commentary on the way technology has shaped our lives. - John This is too much like what actually happened to me. A few years ago I learned that someone had an IMSAI 8080 they wanted to get rid of, in a city 150 miles from where I live. I was willing to make the trip to go and rescue it. But when I finally got in touch with the owner by phone, they said "I wish you had gotten ahold of us sooner! We just gave it to an artist who wanted to use it for a collage." I can still imagine that front panel plastered in bright-colored goo, along with a bunch of other techno-junk, hanging on some wall in humiliation! --- Mark Metzler VON NEUMANN MACHINES Online Computer History Bookstore/Museum http://home.pacbell.net/mmetzler/vnm.html ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occassion at http://greetings.xoom.com From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Fri May 7 01:24:29 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: DECmate III restoration In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990505193341.216f3c42@earthlink.net> References: <199905052311.QAA07084@civic.hal.com> <199905051448.JAA05200@mastif.ee.nd.edu> Message-ID: <199905070624.QAA23692@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> During a (somewhat enforced) break from work, I decided to start work on restoring some of my old collection of computers. I decided to start on my DECmate III (I've never played with one before). All seems OK, on power up the screen comes on, all four lights on the LK201 come on and the RX50s start and accesses the floppy I found in the drive (notated DM/WPS System Diskette V2.1.2 Backup Copy - Working). All I now get is 16 sitting in the middle of the screen and a large cursor in the top left corner of the screen. I'm guessing either the floppy is bad or I need another/more. I've organized a colleague to bring home a 5.25" floppy drive which will get installed in my NT/Alpha box. I guess I need pointers to what I need to do to get the DECmate running WPS and what I need to install OS/278 which I what I really want to do with this box. Pointers to a simple terminal emulation program would be useful - the DECmate will spend at least some of it's life as the console to my home network gateway/firewall.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From mranalog at home.com Fri May 7 01:57:19 1999 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: OT: neon lamps from previous post Message-ID: <37328ECF.3F5D813F@home.com> John said: > Does you have a reference on how to build an oscillator or counter out > of neon lamps? Here is the zip file that put up a couple of months ago. It contains 22 scanned pages of glow lamp logic circuits. The zip file is 1.6 MB. http://www.best.com/~dcoward/LAMP.ZIP I hope this helps, --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA ==================================================== From marvin at rain.org Fri May 7 03:05:10 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention References: <37328ECF.3F5D813F@home.com> Message-ID: <37329EB6.FD7598CC@rain.org> As it is really getting close now, just curious how many people on this list will be at Dayton Hamvention. And of course the next question is do we want to get together, and if so, when. I expect to be arriving in Dayton on Thursday. I rather expect to be checking out the swap area on Friday and Sunday with Saturday being full with ARDF and T-hunting activities. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri May 7 05:04:56 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: CURSOR cassettes Message-ID: Greetings, I've managed to transfer the contents of CURSOR Magazine (for the PET) cassettes #1 to #8 to my Amiga. Cassette #2 is incomplete due to damage to one program. Is there already an archive of Cursor Magazine cassettes? Does anyone have the program "RACE" from Cursor #2? -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri May 7 05:51:21 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Commodore cassette format Message-ID: Hi, I need some information about the Commodore cassette storage format. I want to salvage something from a damaged cassette, and I have a (rather crummy) audio digitizer. I've spent a couple of hours staring at the signals from stored programs but I just don't 'get it'. In the data portions, it appears as if every 20th wave is special, with maximum amplitude and a smaller frequency. If these are synchronization points, why does it appear to be at every 20th wave? Why not every 9th? Does the format not care about bytes? Or is there some kind of error detection or correction scheme taking up more bits? There are about 200 of these 'synchronization waves' just in the header. The machine-readable file I was looking at only has a three-character filename. What data is normally stored in the header? Filename, load address, checksum or CRC, etc? It sounds like there are two identical copies of the header information. I know that there are two copies of the actual file data. How is the data actually stored? I expected to see square waves with frequency modulation. IIRC, that's what the Apple does. The PET appears to use sine waves (non-flattened) and I can't visually discern any frequency differences in the data (at a sample rate of approx. 25,500 per second). A lot of the data portion of the file I'm looking at looks like it is stored with amplitude modulation, but I don't think that would make sense with such a flaky thing as cassette tape. There are large amplitude "gulleys" here and there in the file, yet the file I'm looking at loads properly. (Of course, it sure SOUNDS like it's using frequency modulation. Perhaps I should sample at a higher rate, and get out a ruler to measure the width of the waves...) Those 20 waves don't represent a single bit, do they? (Lessee... approx. 60 waves per 600 samples, 25,500 samples per second... that's 2,550 Hz, and 20 waves/bit = 127.5 bps, which isn't enough but is getting somewhat closer to the numbers I'd expect. Maybe I'll answer some of my own questions with another look at the samples.) The damaged file that I want to salvage has had its header wiped out (someone momentarily hit "RECORD"), but the data appears to be untouched. Is there a way of getting the PET (or any other machine) to read the data without the file header? -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri May 7 06:19:33 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Atari modem Message-ID: Greetings, I picked up a rather interesting 8-bit Atari system a while back. It is an Atari 130XE with 1050 floppy drive and a modem. What makes this system interesting is that it has been designed to be more portable. The 130XE's power supply, 1050's power supply, and modem, are all in a grey sheetmetal box, and the 1050 is bolted to the top. There is a large carrying handle on the front of the box, two illuminated power switches, a large unused red lamp, and an LED that is connected to the modem. On the back of the box is the power cord connector, a 7-pin DIN socket for the 130XE's power connection, a 15-pin D connector, and an unused 9-pin D connector. The telephone cable feeds through the crack between the box's lid and its side, and the power connector for the drive is fed through a hole drilled in the back. 14 pins of the 15-pin connector are wired up inside, so it looks like the modem is supposed to connect to the "Expansion" connector on the back of the 130XE (14-pin edge connector). Of course, whatever cable connected the computer to the modem has been lost (it was a Salvation Army find, so I was extremely lucky to get the power cable and SIO cable). The major part on the modem board is an NEC D80C48C. The board has the Atari logo etched on it. There appears to be only 8 actual connections to the board. Does anyone know what kind of modem this is? And which contacts should be wired to which contacts on the Expansion port? Thanks. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri May 7 07:49:41 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: PC in a box and Re: MacIntosh in a box question In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990506191750.3b4fe386@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990507074941.3d77fafc@intellistar.net> At 06:48 PM 5/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >Where are you located and how much are they? They're in Orlando Florida. He has six of them and I expect he'll take $100 each plus shipping. Call Don at (407) 260-9109. Don is the same guy that has the rack mount PCs. I've written up a bit about them and posted it at "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/don-ad.htm". That a look if you're interested. The boxs for the Apples are not the same as the one for the PCs. I expect he'll take $125 for one of them with a single CPU card (486-100), 4Mb Ram, a VGA video card, a 520 Mb hard drive and a floppy drive. He has a lot of neat data acquision and control cards for them and some of the cases have dual computers in them. BTW the Apples have a keylock on the front to turn them off and on with. Don doesn't have the keys. I popped the switch portion off of the lock on one of them and turned the switch shaft with a pair of pliars. If you got one, you can do the same or replace the lock/switch or have a key made. Joe > >George > >> I found some strange looking rack mount boxs in a salvage place today. >> They're marked AuudioVision 90. I opened one up and found that it has an >> Apple Mac Quadra 950 built into it. I rounded up a monitor (but no >> keyboard) and fired one up. It boots to MacOS then asks for a password. >> Is there anyway to get around the password other than reinstalling >> everything? >> There are six of them available. Is anyone interested in them? They have >> a >> huge non-apple power supply, and at least one floppy and one hard drive >> and all the regular Nu-Bus (?) slots. Another that I opened had two hard >> drives. >> >> Joe >> > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri May 7 07:40:50 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention Message-ID: <19990507124050.16170.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin wrote: > > As it is really getting close now, just curious how many people on this list > will be at Dayton Hamvention. I'm hoping to go (I live in Columbus), but I also have another thing going on at the same time in Western PA (near Butler). :-( If I can go, I'd be very interested in a get-together. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri May 7 08:21:37 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Listserve Traffic Message-ID: <19990507.082138.62.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Guys: Is it just my imagination, or has traffic on this Mailing List gone like, *way* down? I used to get upwards of 60+ messages a day, now I'm only getting less than half that. ???? Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri May 7 10:44:17 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: URLs In-Reply-To: References: <199905061955.VAA02062@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199905071345.PAA16294@horus.mch.sni.de> > > In fact, I also don't use any fancy integrated software - just > > a plain mail reader, that's also the reason why I always put > > an URL on a single line - it is just the easyest way to pick it > > via your mouse and insert it in the 'Location' box, or on the > > command line (Yes, my Linux Box never had seen any X - just > > marking with the GNU mouse, press ALT-Fx, type 'lynx' and insert > > the marked URL). (Or just configure your PINE in using Lynx as > > a subshell.) > Can you give a brief tutorial on configuring PINE that way, Hans? Brief ? Two ways: a) use the spellchecker interface and add lynx via a script (I did use perl, but shell might be possible) or b) modify the sources and hook it on your own comand - not that complicated (Source at ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu if not within your actual LINUXarchives :) Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri May 7 10:44:17 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Listserve Traffic In-Reply-To: <19990507.082138.62.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <199905071345.PAA16291@horus.mch.sni.de> > Is it just my imagination, or has traffic on this Mailing > List gone like, *way* down? I used to get upwards of 60+ > messages a day, now I'm only getting less than half that. Less "§$%&/() stuff ? (inser what ever computer you're not interested in). Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com Fri May 7 09:00:12 1999 From: jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com (John Dykstra) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: core... more Message-ID: <01BE9868.04DAA010.jdykstra@nortelnetworks.com> On Thursday, May 06, 1999 9:43 PM, allisonp@world.std.com [SMTP:allisonp@world.std.com] wrote: > They are roughly 50mils x 11 mils x 15mils. Cross section of the > doughnut is rectangular at 15x11 mils. The reason for such rough > measurements is my vernier is only good to .001" and I'd need > somthing fancier to be more accurate. By eyeball the 8e cores are > smaller! According to Pugh's "IBM's 360 and Early 370 Computers", in 1963 IBM was manufacturing both 30x50 mil and 19x32 mil cores (inside diameter x outside diameter). Allison's measurements match up with the larger size. According to the book, the IBM 7080 and 7094 used the smaller size. Thus, these cores were probably intended for either the 1401, or the 7090 if any of these were still in production in 1963. Does anyone out there have a 1401, or a 1401 core stack? Something I hadn't read of before: the 7090's core planes were immersed in oil to help with heat dissipation. I wonder whether there was a sticker on the machine (right underneath "Trained Service Personel Only"): "Change oil every six months or 100,000 punched cards". Another interesting point: The defect ratio of cores that reached the plane wiring stage was 1 out of 8,000. This sounds incredibly high, but IBM's core manufacturing facilities were state of the art. Imagine the difference between the process control used then, and current integrated circuit fabrication techniques! > A simple core frame would be 8x8 (64 bits) and use a 4 wire system as > that simplifies the select, inhibit and sense hardware. I'd likely go > with late 70s level TTL and transistors to drive these and to sense the > outputs I don't know if I'll use transistors (1968 or earlier designs) > or > comparator chips (aka 1540, 710, 711) will be used. They would also be > consistant with 1970s technology. I'd very much like to see your schematics, once you're happy with them. Better late than never to learn about appropriate circuit designs. ---- John Dykstra jdykstra@nortelnetworks.com Principal Software Architect voice: ESN 454-1604 Enterprise Solutions fax: ESN 667-8549 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri May 7 09:13:19 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: HP700? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990507071319.00931b80@mail.bluefeathertech.com> I don't know how 'classic' this one is just yet, but... I came across a partly gutted HP700IL at my local used place yesterday. It was missing its power supply, but still had the CPU card. I took a look, and it looks like the heat sink was actually bolted to the CPU chip (a la the DEC Alphas). Is the unit worth grabbing? It looked kind of slick. How hard would it be to find a power module? Thanks... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri May 7 09:12:22 1999 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Identify this transputer board References: <199905061955.VAA02062@horus.mch.sni.de> <199905071345.PAA16294@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <3732F4C5.E32550E3@olf.com> Hi, I picked up several transputer based hardware including a B020, B008 and several trams including 2 SCSIs trams and an ethernet tram. Among the collection, I found 2 wierd looking ones. One is a tram and the other I got no idea how to use it. The Tram is a size 4 tram and has the following labels: T2SL Paradise- 1/A It contains what looks like an IDE connector and has the following chips: INMOS IMST222C LOGIC L54C80JC-4 and two INMOS IMS1620S55 ICs. The other card has an IMST800D-G20S chip and has the following on the board: VYTAL VTM 301 Copyright VYTAL LTD 1989 On the underside, it has a socket for another transputer chip (maybe??). Oh, there is another board too. It is also a size 4 tram and has a T805-G30S and the board is from INMOS. There is a label on one of the IC chips (written using a pen, so might not be reliable) "B417-17 SE006". Also, the B020 graphics card has no SIMMs on it. Does anyone know what type of SIMMs I can use. Finally, I got an ethernet tram without any cables. What type of cable to I need to use it. It is an IMSB421 tram. The SCSI trams would probably use standard SCSI cables. Am I right. Thanks for you help. Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/bc173a04/attachment.html From steverob at hotoffice.com Fri May 7 09:18:45 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Listserve Traffic References: <199905071345.PAA16291@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <3732F645.328D444D@hotoffice.com> > Is it just my imagination, or has traffic on this Mailing > List gone like, *way* down? I used to get upwards of 60+ > messages a day, now I'm only getting less than half that. The signal to noise ration has definitely IMPROVED! Steve Robertson From jlwest at tseinc.com Fri May 7 09:29:55 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: HP700? Message-ID: <01a301be9896$13be2f60$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> The HP 700 series were/are graphical workstations. They are virtually identical to the 800 series (the business servers) except they were repackaged for the workstation market. Unix (HP-UX) OS. PA-RISC cpu's. Parts of the 700 series might still be in production. Getting a power supply from a scrap/surplus dealer wouldn't be all that easy, but not impossible. You can probably still buy a power supply for it from HP. Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 9:18 AM Subject: HP700? > I don't know how 'classic' this one is just yet, but... > > I came across a partly gutted HP700IL at my local used place yesterday. It >was missing its power supply, but still had the CPU card. I took a look, >and it looks like the heat sink was actually bolted to the CPU chip (a la >the DEC Alphas). > > Is the unit worth grabbing? It looked kind of slick. How hard would it be >to find a power module? > >Thanks... > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri May 7 09:34:01 1999 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Identify this transputer board References: <199905061955.VAA02062@horus.mch.sni.de> <199905071345.PAA16294@horus.mch.sni.de> <3732F4C5.E32550E3@olf.com> Message-ID: <3732F9D9.62E3AFEB@olf.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > Oh, there is another board too. It is also a size > 4 tram and has a T805-G30S and the board is > from INMOS. There is a label on one of the IC > chips (written using a pen, so might not be > reliable) "B417-17 SE006". > Oops, I just found the label on the board and it is a B417. Anyone know what a IMSB417 is?? Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From jfoust at threedee.com Fri May 7 09:51:37 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Commodore cassette format In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990507095137.00cdb240@vpwisfirewall> At 05:51 AM 5/7/99 -0500, Doug Spence wrote: > >I want to salvage something from a damaged cassette, and I have a (rather >crummy) audio digitizer. I've spent a couple of hours staring at the signals >from stored programs but I just don't 'get it'. A number of Commodore emulators and tools will process a sampled .WAV file into runnable data. My web site at (winner of the "Geek Site Of The Day" Award on October 16, 1996) has some of my aspirations to recover data this way, too. After looking at the source code of several tools that do this, I was disheartened to see they use techniques as simple as measuring the time-distances between zero-crossings, and no fancy FFT is involved. When you think about it, the hardware in many of these early machines did no more than watch the timing on the square waves, too. A signal processing approach might be able to rescue more data, or remove print-through on old tapes, of course. - John From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Fri May 7 09:05:58 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Listserve Traffic Message-ID: <8025676A.004DF166.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > Is it just my imagination, or has traffic on this Mailing > List gone like, *way* down? I used to get upwards of 60+ > messages a day, now I'm only getting less than half that. If you want more messages, here's another :-) In fact, I am still getting around 60 messages a day from Classiccmp at the moment, but this is a lot easier to cope with than the 100+ we had a week or two ago. Especially since my boss doesn't like me reading them in work time (he's off with a bad back today...) Philip. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri May 7 12:02:33 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Listserve Traffic In-Reply-To: <8025676A.004DF166.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <199905071503.RAA22702@horus.mch.sni.de> > > Is it just my imagination, or has traffic on this Mailing > > List gone like, *way* down? I used to get upwards of 60+ > > messages a day, now I'm only getting less than half that. > If you want more messages, here's another :-) > In fact, I am still getting around 60 messages a day from Classiccmp at the > moment, but this is a lot easier to cope with than the 100+ we had a week or two > ago. Especially since my boss doesn't like me reading them in work time (he's > off with a bad back today...) Did someone kick his four letters as a reaction on unrealistic opinions ? Gruss H. (Will go offline on Monday) -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From allisonp at world.std.com Fri May 7 10:30:55 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: core... more In-Reply-To: <01BE9868.04DAA010.jdykstra@nortelnetworks.com> Message-ID: > I'd very much like to see your schematics, once you're happy with them. Better > late than never to learn about appropriate circuit designs. I've got a way to go for that yet. One thing I have to find is some pulse transformers 1:1 and may be some 2:1 with centertaps. Allison From emu at ecubics.com Fri May 7 11:00:47 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Listserve Traffic Message-ID: <007b01be98a2$c81d4d40$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> >Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. ??? From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri May 7 11:10:21 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: WD Chipset info (Was: Listserve Traffic) Message-ID: <19990507.111021.249.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Guys: Well, actually, my concern was that maybe I'm not getting all of my mail (either that, of I've pissed off alot of people, and don't know why). Anyways, does anybody out there have a 'long form' spec/application sheet for the WD-2010 or the WD-1010 HDC chip? There is a 'short' (read: Incomplete) sheet in the old 1983 catalog, but it is missing some information. ALso, if someone has info on HDC devices made by WD after 1983 (the WD-1100 comes to mind, for example), that would be appreciated also. Let me know what you got, and I will be happy to pay for postage & duplication (your $6.50 is in the mail Joe! :^) ). WD devices are as common as fleas on a dog, but docs seem to be rather scarce. Thanks! Jeff On Fri, 7 May 1999 15:05:58 +0100 Philip.Belben@pgen.com writes: > > > > Is it just my imagination, or has traffic on this Mailing > > List gone like, *way* down? I used to get upwards of 60+ > > messages a day, now I'm only getting less than half that. > > > If you want more messages, here's another :-) > > In fact, I am still getting around 60 messages a day from Classiccmp > at the > moment, but this is a lot easier to cope with than the 100+ we had a > week or two > ago. Especially since my boss doesn't like me reading them in work > time (he's > off with a bad back today...) > > Philip. > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Fri May 7 11:27:07 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Listserve Traffic In-Reply-To: <007b01be98a2$c81d4d40$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> from "emanuel stiebler" at May 7, 99 10:00:47 am Message-ID: <199905071627.JAA08874@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/cf17daa8/attachment.ksh From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri May 7 11:41:05 1999 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Identify this transputer board References: <199905061955.VAA02062@horus.mch.sni.de> <199905071345.PAA16294@horus.mch.sni.de> <3732F4C5.E32550E3@olf.com> <3732F9D9.62E3AFEB@olf.com> Message-ID: <373317A0.2873650D@olf.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > > > > Oh, there is another board too. It is also a size > > 4 tram and has a T805-G30S and the board is > > from INMOS. There is a label on one of the IC > > chips (written using a pen, so might not be > > reliable) "B417-17 SE006". > > > > Oops, I just found the label on the board and it > is a B417. Anyone know what a IMSB417 is?? > > Well, I think I know what it is. It might be a 4Meg T805-G30S tram (must be an old one, never seen a size 4 tram that holds 4Megs. It is usually size 1). Can anyone confirm this??? Thanks Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From ss at allegro.com Fri May 7 11:51:52 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: HP700? In-Reply-To: <01a301be9896$13be2f60$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <199905071651.JAA30223@bart.allegro.com> > The HP 700 series were/are graphical workstations. They are virtually > identical to the 800 series (the business servers) except they were There are significant differences in the I/O architecture between the 700 series and the 800 series. That was the reason for the (bad) decision to separate the 700 and 800 kernels when the 700s were being developed. (This separation caused a lot of problems.) The kernels were brought back together (as of HP-UX 11.0, IIRC). Note: I've seen recent (last week) postings on comp.sys.hp.hpux for low-end HP 9000/700 machines for $50, including shipping. These machine come with no disk and no RAM: In comp.sys.hp.hpux, "For Sale" wrote: > Many Available -- > HP 9000 PA RISC 712/60 Workstations -- > Hard Drive(s) and memory removed ---VRAM module (1280x1024) > remains --no DOAs' > 30 Day warranty -- (after you install HD/Memory and O/S) > Internet references available -- > $50US Each -- shipping included -- anywhere in the US > Lower price available for multiples of 5 --- > Call or email for more info: > Ross > (905)820-0875 > pwrgluide@geocities.com From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri May 7 12:47:14 1999 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Identify this transputer board References: <199905061955.VAA02062@horus.mch.sni.de> <199905071345.PAA16294@horus.mch.sni.de> <3732F4C5.E32550E3@olf.com> Message-ID: <37332722.8F6C55A8@olf.com> > Finally, I got an ethernet tram without any cables. > What type of cable to I need to use it. It is an IMSB421 > tram. Apparently, the IMSB421 is not an ethernet tram afterall. It appears to be what is known as an GPIB (stands for general purpose interface board maybe??). What can I use this for???? Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From elvey at hal.com Fri May 7 12:55:26 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Identify this transputer board In-Reply-To: <37332722.8F6C55A8@olf.com> Message-ID: <199905071755.KAA13402@civic.hal.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Apparently, the IMSB421 is not an ethernet tram afterall. > It appears to be what is known as an GPIB (stands for > general purpose interface board maybe??). What can I use > this for???? GPIB or IEEE-488 is a parallel instrument interface. I have a Fluke 5 digit DVM that has this interface. You can also get oscilliscopes, power supplies, signal generators and just about any othe lab equiptment with this as there I/O interface. I've even seen it used on printers. Dwight From donm at cts.com Fri May 7 13:44:38 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: URLs In-Reply-To: <199905071345.PAA16294@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > In fact, I also don't use any fancy integrated software - just > > > a plain mail reader, that's also the reason why I always put > > > an URL on a single line - it is just the easyest way to pick it > > > via your mouse and insert it in the 'Location' box, or on the > > > command line (Yes, my Linux Box never had seen any X - just > > > marking with the GNU mouse, press ALT-Fx, type 'lynx' and insert > > > the marked URL). (Or just configure your PINE in using Lynx as > > > a subshell.) > > > Can you give a brief tutorial on configuring PINE that way, Hans? > > Brief ? Two ways: > a) use the spellchecker interface and add lynx via a script (I > did use perl, but shell might be possible) or > b) modify the sources and hook it on your own comand - not that > complicated (Source at > ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu > if not within your actual LINUXarchives :) > > Gruss > H. > > -- > Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. > H.Achternbusch > Thanks! Major difference between us is you are using your own PINE and I am using one from my shell account. - don From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri May 7 16:17:58 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: URLs In-Reply-To: References: <199905071345.PAA16294@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199905071918.VAA03934@horus.mch.sni.de> > > > Can you give a brief tutorial on configuring PINE that way, Hans? > > Brief ? Two ways: > > a) use the spellchecker interface and add lynx via a script (I > > did use perl, but shell might be possible) or > > b) modify the sources and hook it on your own comand - not that > > complicated (Source at > > ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu > > if not within your actual LINUXarchives :) > Thanks! Major difference between us is you are using your own PINE and I > am using one from my shell account. Can you write own procedures and change the PINE configuration ? If yes, solution a) might still be possibe (or did they imprisson you within a menue driven 'user friendly' frontend ?). Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri May 7 11:47:47 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:54 2005 Subject: Atari modem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905072046.QAA15171@smtp.interlog.com> On 7 May 99 at 6:19, Doug Spence wrote: > Greetings, > > I picked up a rather interesting 8-bit Atari system a while back. > > It is an Atari 130XE with 1050 floppy drive and a modem. > > What makes this system interesting is that it has been designed to be more > portable. The 130XE's power supply, 1050's power supply, and modem, are all > in a grey sheetmetal box, and the 1050 is bolted to the top. There is a large > carrying handle on the front of the box, two illuminated power switches, a > large unused red lamp, and an LED that is connected to the modem. > > On the back of the box is the power cord connector, a 7-pin DIN socket for the > 130XE's power connection, a 15-pin D connector, and an unused 9-pin D > connector. The telephone cable feeds through the crack between the box's lid > and its side, and the power connector for the drive is fed through a hole > drilled in the back. > > 14 pins of the 15-pin connector are wired up inside, so it looks like the > modem is supposed to connect to the "Expansion" connector on the back of the > 130XE (14-pin edge connector). Of course, whatever cable connected the > computer to the modem has been lost (it was a Salvation Army find, so I was > extremely lucky to get the power cable and SIO cable). > > The major part on the modem board is an NEC D80C48C. The board has the Atari > logo etched on it. There appears to be only 8 actual connections to the > board. > > Does anyone know what kind of modem this is? And which contacts should be > wired to which contacts on the Expansion port? > > Thanks. > Hi Doug, nice find. The 130xe is a nice little box. Looks like a junior size ST. My favorite of the Atari 8-bits. Based on how the guy put this together, I'm wondering whether it is indeed a modem. The 8-bit Ataris used an RS232 interface box to connect to printers, modems, etc. The Atari model was an 850 but there were also 3rd party versions, the MEO and the Black Box. Atari did make some printers and modems but you need the 850 to get RS232 to connect to most peripherals or another computer to transfer disks. The comp.sys.atari.8bit newsgroup is quite active and has an excellent FAQ. Did you get system disks with it ? Let me know by e-mail and I can supply you with some if necessary. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 12:36:07 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <002301be9830$534f2320$ddb520d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> from "Francois" at May 6, 99 09:21:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2063 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/bcc28ea3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 13:25:37 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Identify this transputer board In-Reply-To: <3732F4C5.E32550E3@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at May 7, 99 10:12:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1106 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/bd158316/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 13:34:47 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: WD Chipset info (Was: Listserve Traffic) In-Reply-To: <19990507.111021.249.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "Jeffrey l Kaneko" at May 7, 99 11:10:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1147 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/b671b007/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Fri May 7 17:43:02 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries Message-ID: <199905072243.AA15157@world.std.com> I would appreciate knowing of a few auction and classified ad sites where I can pick up stuff for my Atari's, Commodores, etc. You are really a helpful group of people. Maybe my little puters will stay alive afterall. Thanks! Stephanie sring@uslink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/082188a8/attachment.html From donm at cts.com Fri May 7 18:34:10 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: URLs In-Reply-To: <199905071918.VAA03934@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 May 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > Can you give a brief tutorial on configuring PINE that way, Hans? > > > Brief ? Two ways: > > > a) use the spellchecker interface and add lynx via a script (I > > > did use perl, but shell might be possible) or > > > b) modify the sources and hook it on your own comand - not that > > > complicated (Source at > > > ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu > > > if not within your actual LINUXarchives :) > > > Thanks! Major difference between us is you are using your own PINE and I > > am using one from my shell account. > > Can you write own procedures and change the PINE configuration ? > If yes, solution a) might still be possibe (or did they imprisson > you within a menue driven 'user friendly' frontend ?). > > Gruss > H. I'll have to look into that a bit. I do have access to and can tailor .pinerc which I have d/l'd, but at this point I have little more than scanned it. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 18:48:37 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Identify this transputer board In-Reply-To: <37332722.8F6C55A8@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at May 7, 99 01:47:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1727 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990508/3f4d4be1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 18:59:11 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <199905072243.AA15157@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at May 7, 99 06:43:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1680 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990508/9117f6ec/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Fri May 7 19:45:23 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Web auctions, etc. In-Reply-To: <01be98e0$cf9690c0$c457ddcc@enduser> from "END USER" at May 7, 99 06:24:53 pm Message-ID: <199905080045.RAA16274@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 871 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990507/639dfbcb/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Fri May 7 19:47:59 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <199905072243.AA15157@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199905080048.RAA13457@civic.hal.com> allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > > > Often far cheaper than a new one. Hi Unless you have access to a battery spot welder, make sure and leave a little bit of the tab to solder to. Soldering directly to the case of a cell will cause the burst seal to rupture. Not only will the electrolite make a mess of anything it gets on, the cell will dry out and need to be replaced in a month or so. Dwight From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri May 7 16:26:16 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <199905072243.AA15157@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990507162616.222fa068@earthlink.net> At 06:43 PM 5/7/99 -0400, Allison wrote: ><(say 10000-100000 uF) to about 20V. Now discharge it through the faulty > >This is the beast bet as cells fail with internal shorts and the cap will >dump enough energy to open them without cooking the cell. > Yes, but many times in my experience another short appears shortly. I have been watching when recharging a cell treated with the capacitor zap method and seeing it's voltage go from about 1.3 Volts back to zero again, sometimes with a faint ping if about completely recharged. Other cells become leaky electrically so they can be charged, but self discharge in a few hours. Very annoying. Has anyone seen any writeup on what treatment causes more of the internal shorts to appear? I.e. continuous trickle charge, left open circuit, discharge completely, etc. -Dave From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 20:15:33 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990507162616.222fa068@earthlink.net> from "Dave Dameron" at May 7, 99 04:26:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1107 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990508/5c9779bf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 7 20:18:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <199905080048.RAA13457@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 7, 99 05:47:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 497 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990508/8046fada/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Fri May 7 20:37:17 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: WD Chipset info (Was: Listserve Traffic) Message-ID: <001201be98f3$62c7f8e0$0100c0a8@fuj03> A couple of things . . . first of all, the WD1100 came well before the 1010 which preceded the 2010 by about a year. All the information you need about either of these chips is contained in the datasheet/appnote set published by WD for their WD100x-0x series of controllers. Careful, now, because the earlier controllers were different, i.e. the WD1000-55 came before the WD1000-05. The '-55 was the one with the WD 5-chip chipset with various designations, but accompanied by the 8X300 microcontroller. There's a 1010 on nearly every one of the early PC/XT and PC/AT controllers. The designation for one of the PC/XT controllers which was quite well documented, was WD1002-WX2. There's nothing mysterious about these controllers. They are dirt simple to program, to wit, I programmed the things myself instead of having someone else do it. The device has a "register file" which you must completely rewrite each time you issue a command and it has a buffer which you must fill before writing and empty after reading data and before checking status. The board has its own counters which trigger the operation in question once you've performed the requisite number of reads and writes. The 1015, by the way, is an 8041 (2) with Western's code in it. I have several different versions of this chip's application chipset, so it's not easy to see what's what. One thing's for sure, though, and that's that the 1010 definitely replaced the 5-chip set used on the 8X300-based controllers. The 2010 is an enhanced, error-correction-support-capable version of the 1010. It works more or less the same in other respects, but has a longer correction code which makes it capable of more than just complaining there's been an error. I'll look around to see if I have anything beyond an old data book from Western. I once kept all these devices' data sheets as though my life depended on it, which it once did, more or less, . . . at least my diet . . . , so I may actually still have them. Western abruptly quit sending out data on the chips when they went from supplier to competitor for those of us in the controller business. That was, I believe, in about 1984. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey l Kaneko To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 10:26 AM Subject: WD Chipset info (Was: Listserve Traffic) >Guys: > >Well, actually, my concern was that maybe I'm not getting all of >my mail (either that, of I've pissed off alot of people, and don't >know why). > >Anyways, does anybody out there have a 'long form' spec/application >sheet for the WD-2010 or the WD-1010 HDC chip? There is a 'short' >(read: Incomplete) sheet in the old 1983 catalog, but it is missing >some information. > >ALso, if someone has info on HDC devices made by WD after 1983 >(the WD-1100 comes to mind, for example), that would be appreciated >also. Let me know what you got, and I will be happy to pay for >postage & duplication (your $6.50 is in the mail Joe! :^) ). > >WD devices are as common as fleas on a dog, but docs seem to be >rather scarce. > >Thanks! > > >Jeff > > >On Fri, 7 May 1999 15:05:58 +0100 Philip.Belben@pgen.com writes: >> >> >> > Is it just my imagination, or has traffic on this Mailing >> > List gone like, *way* down? I used to get upwards of 60+ >> > messages a day, now I'm only getting less than half that. >> >> >> If you want more messages, here's another :-) >> >> In fact, I am still getting around 60 messages a day from Classiccmp >> at the >> moment, but this is a lot easier to cope with than the 100+ we had a >> week or two >> ago. Especially since my boss doesn't like me reading them in work >> time (he's >> off with a bad back today...) >> >> Philip. >> >> >> >> >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri May 7 21:10:10 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: FT: DEC Option Module Guide 1991 Message-ID: <4.1.19990507190734.00c81a60@mcmanis.com> Howdy, I've got a DEC Option Module Guide (~1500 pages, 1991 vintage) that I'm willing to trade for a set of three PDP-11 boards (2 x M8044-Dx, 1 x RKV21) these are two 32KW memory cards and an RX02 interface card. Email me off list if you're interested. --Chuck From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri May 7 22:16:37 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Listserve Traffic In-Reply-To: <19990507.082138.62.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <000c01be9901$2ee48da0$2a701fd1@5x86jk> I notice the same thing ???? John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Jeffrey l Kaneko > Sent: Friday, May 07, 1999 8:22 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Listserve Traffic > > > Guys: > > Is it just my imagination, or has traffic on this Mailing > List gone like, *way* down? I used to get upwards of 60+ > messages a day, now I'm only getting less than half that. > > ???? > > > Jeff > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Fri May 7 23:24:33 1999 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries Message-ID: <000201be990a$eb816100$3cb620d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Hi, Thanks for all the info. Apparently there are no reliable way to bring their youth back, I would like to have a reliable laptop with a battery that last more than 30 min. I found a Zenith z-star 433 VLp (500 Mb hd, 12 M RAM and color display and the Zenith J-Mouse!!!) that I'd like to use while away from home. The batery I got seem to work for a while. Also it has four contacts does this means that it provide mutiple voltages or is there some kind of charge sense signal? I haven't brought the battery to the bench yet (no room on or near the bench:). Also the pack seems to be sealed pretty good, any elegant way to open it up and reclose it without too much damage? Thanks Francois PS: I actually got 3 of these laptops and built two from the set of parts and two of the batteries are totally shot: they get very hot when I try to charge them and of course no juice is coming out. I can practice on one of the dead ones. >> >This is the beast bet as cells fail with internal shorts and the cap will >> >dump enough energy to open them without cooking the cell. >> > >> Yes, but many times in my experience another short appears shortly. I have > >Unfortunately, that's right :-( I would never depend on a cell that I'd >repaired by this method. From roblwill at usaor.net Sat May 8 02:22:35 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries Message-ID: <01be9923$8b64d9a0$be8ea6d1@the-general> The method that I use to open up old NiCd's is with an old knife and a propane torch. The knife is an old snap-off utility knife (with a metal insert in the plastic handle). I turn on the torch, open the knife as far as it'll go (about 2 1/2"), and heat it over the torch until it is red hot. I then melt through the seam of the battery pack (or the middle, if I can't find a seam). To fasten the pack back together, I just use a soldering iron and "spot weld" it back together at the corners. This makes it easier to take apart the next time the cells need replaced. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Francois To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 9:26 PM Subject: Re: Breathing new life in laptop batteries >Hi, >Thanks for all the info. Apparently there are no reliable way to bring their >youth back, I would like to have a reliable laptop with a battery that last >more than 30 min. I found a Zenith z-star 433 VLp (500 Mb hd, 12 M RAM and >color display and the Zenith J-Mouse!!!) that I'd like to use while away >from home. The batery I got seem to work for a while. Also it has four >contacts does this means that it provide mutiple voltages or is there some >kind of charge sense signal? I haven't brought the battery to the bench yet >(no room on or near the bench:). >Also the pack seems to be sealed pretty good, any elegant way to open it up >and reclose it without too much damage? >Thanks >Francois > >PS: I actually got 3 of these laptops and built two from the set of parts >and two of the batteries are totally shot: they get very hot when I try to >charge them and of course no juice is coming out. I can practice on one of >the dead ones. > >>> >This is the beast bet as cells fail with internal shorts and the cap >will >>> >dump enough energy to open them without cooking the cell. >>> > >>> Yes, but many times in my experience another short appears shortly. I >have >> >>Unfortunately, that's right :-( I would never depend on a cell that I'd >>repaired by this method. > > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 8 00:44:57 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: NEC PC-8001 Expansion Chassis pictures Message-ID: I took two digital photos of my NEC PC-8001 expansion chassis. My previous description of the unit was incorrect. The disk drives are housed in a totally separate chassis. The actual expansion chassis contains a slotted backplane so that expansion cards may be added to the PC-8001. The first picture shows the dual disk drive cabinet atop the 8012A I/O Unit. http://www.siconic.com/crap/8001exp1.jpg The second picture shows the inside of the I/O expansion chassis (sorry about the glare...this stupid camera doesn't have an option to turn off the flash correctly, or stupid me forgot how to do it right). You can see a RAM card plugged into the lower slot. http://www.siconic.com/crap/8001exp2.jpg The I/O unit has an external connector that the PC-8001 plugs into. It has a second connector that plugs into the disk drive unit. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From edick at idcomm.com Sat May 8 00:46:49 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: WD Chipset info (Was: Listserve Traffic) Message-ID: <001b01be9916$2b2aad60$0100c0a8@fuj03> I've been saving a couple of the 1050 chips, in that ultra-rare JECED 'C' package for use as high-tech cuff-links to go with my i8008 tie-tack. I surely liked that package better than the stupid, Stupid, STUPID one they used for a number of 68-pin wonders including the 8018x and 80286. Of course I could use a more up-to-date part, but why . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 4:36 PM Subject: Re: WD Chipset info (Was: Listserve Traffic) >> > >And others, like the 1050 SMD controller chip. > >-tony > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat May 8 04:31:00 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Atari modem In-Reply-To: <199905072046.QAA15171@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On 07-May-99, Lawrence Walker wrote: >On 7 May 99 at 6:19, Doug Spence wrote: >> Does anyone know what kind of modem this is? And which contacts should >> be wired to which contacts on the Expansion port? > > Hi Doug, nice find. The 130xe is a nice little box. Looks like a junior >size ST. My favorite of the Atari 8-bits. It's certainly not a bad little box, but I like the design of the 800XL better. I like the top-loading trapdoor cartridge port and the solid feel. The 130XE feels a little flimsy to me. (And neither of them has a very good keyboard, IMHO.) Considering the colour scheme of the 1050, I think I'll pair up the power-and-drive unit with an 800XL. :) I have an XF551 drive that goes better with the 130XE. > Based on how the guy put this together, I'm wondering whether it is >indeed a modem. The 8-bit Ataris used an RS232 interface box to connect >to printers, modems, etc. The Atari model was an 850 but there were also >3rd party versions, the MEO and the Black Box. > Atari did make some printers and modems but you need the 850 to get RS232 >to connect to most peripherals or another computer to transfer disks. Hummm... I don't know what else it could be, apart from a modem. It has a phone cable leading out of it. It's got an RJ-11 jack poking out of the board. And the board has the Atari logo. Of course, the original casing for the unit is gone. As for disk transfers, I can do that with my handy-dandy A1020 drive on my Amiga. It reads and writes several Atari 8-bit formats just fine, including 810 (SS/SD) and XF551 (DS/DD?). So I don't really have an urgent USE for the modem (if that's what it is) but I would like to see it in action. Maybe I'll have it talk to my Commodore 64, and start WWIII. :) > The comp.sys.atari.8bit newsgroup is quite active and has an excellent >FAQ. Oh yeah. I do have an old Atari 8-bit Computers FAQ... from April 1995. I should probably collect a more recent version. :) I see the Atari 835, direct connect modem, on the list of 8-bit Atari hardware. Could it be one of these, or did that also require an RS-232 interface? > Did you get system disks with it ? Let me know by e-mail and I can >supply you with some if necessary. I found DOS 2.5 at an earlier date, and I picked up a few disks of games. I don't have DOS XE. I'll gladly take any .XFD or .ATR images you'd like to send via e-mail, though. :) >ciaolarry >lwalker@interlog.com >Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. >t3c@xoommail.com >Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From Rmeenaks at aol.com Sat May 8 05:50:51 1999 From: Rmeenaks at aol.com (Rmeenaks@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: B020 Transputer Graphics Board info Message-ID: Hey, The B020 that I have has two connectors on it. One, I am assuming is the 15-pin VGA connector. There is also another connector which looks like a 9-pin EGA connector. Is this correct? How do you connect the B020 to the B008 to make one network instead of two. I will be getting all the support software for the B020 soon. I know Tony has one, so I will be sending him a copy. Does anyone else want one? Also, apparently to use trams greater than size 1, I need jumper pins on the unused tram slots. Where can I get these?? Does anyone have several spares that they are not using???? Thanks. Ram From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sat May 8 08:29:55 1999 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: NEC PC-8001 Expansion Chassis pictures Message-ID: <001701be9956$dcba8100$e1b420d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Hi, I used to have a camera like that and the trick I used for highly reflactive objects that still needed extra lighting was to tape a piece of velum papre in front of the flash to diffuse and soften the light. Francois >The second picture shows the inside of the I/O expansion chassis (sorry >about the glare...this stupid camera doesn't have an option to turn off >the flash correctly, or stupid me forgot how to do it right). From jhfine at idirect.com Sat May 8 08:35:30 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: FT: DEC Option Module Guide 1991 References: <4.1.19990507190734.00c81a60@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <37343DA2.128CCE30@idirect.com> >Chuck McManis wrote: > Howdy, I've got a DEC Option Module Guide (~1500 pages, 1991 vintage) that > I'm willing to trade for a set of three PDP-11 boards (2 x M8044-Dx, 1 x > RKV21) these are two 32KW memory cards and an RX02 interface card. Email me > off list if you're interested. Jerome Fine replies: I have the M8044 boards, probably 4 are available. Has anyone else replied? I might also have the M8029, but I would need to look. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jlewczyk at his.com Sat May 8 09:24:07 1999 From: jlewczyk at his.com (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Looking for book: SCELBAL - Higher Level Language for 8008/8080 Systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003701be995e$6ed30010$013da8c0@Corellian> I am looking for this book because the copy that I located is missing pages from chapter 10, pages 15 through 22 (apparently missing because of a printer error). I need a copy of the missing pages. The book was copyright 1976 by Scelbi Computer Consulting and written by Mark Arnold and Nat Wadsworth. Also, has anyone ever RUN this BASIC on their computer way back when? Thanks. From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 8 10:18:29 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries Message-ID: <199905081518.AA03423@world.std.com> Hi all, I picked up a Compupro 816 computer yesterday and an external drive unit with a hard drive and an 8" floppy drive. I haven't brought it home yet so I haven't taken more than a quick look at it. Can anyone tell be about the computer and drive? What CPU, speed, etc. What kind of operating system it uses, etc. I don't see a keyboard or video connectors so I assume it needs a terminal to talk to it. Does any have a pinout of the serial port so I can make a terminal cable. What size is the hard and floppy drives, does the floppy drive use hard sectored disks, etc etc, etc. I noticed that there are connectors for both a 5.25" and an 8" floppy drives and another for a hard drive on the back of the CPU box. Does anyone have a manual or the OS software for one of these? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat May 8 11:30:26 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990508113026.227fb120@intellistar.net> Hi again, More of yesterdays finds. Picked up a pile of AIM 65 computers with the keyboards and power supplies all mounted on sheets of plywood. I found one Motorola "Educational Computer" in the pile. It says "Copywrite 1981 by Motorola, Inc." on it and has a 68000L8 CPU. Unlike the AIMs, it does not have a display or keyboard. How did you interface to one of these? Does anyone have the pinouts and/or the instructions for this? Joe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Sat May 8 13:00:15 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990508113026.227fb120@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199905081601.SAA09999@horus.mch.sni.de> Date sent: Sat, 08 May 1999 11:30:26 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Joe To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" > Hi again, > > More of yesterdays finds. Picked up a pile of AIM 65 computers with the > keyboards and power supplies all mounted on sheets of plywood. I found one > Motorola "Educational Computer" in the pile. It says "Copywrite 1981 by > Motorola, Inc." on it and has a 68000L8 CPU. Unlike the AIMs, it does not > have a display or keyboard. How did you interface to one of these? Does > anyone have the pinouts and/or the instructions for this? Motorola used this term for several 68K and 68xx SBC systems. A good information is at http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/mecb/mecb.htm (BTW: http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/68k.htm is a usefull source for 'old' 68K systems, including an complete HTML Version of the DTACK GROUNDED newsletter from 7/81 until 9/83 (excerpt from the first issue: "...Accordingly, there are a lot of companies who are planning to drive the PDP 11/70 out of the marketplace with $10,000 (base price) 68000 systems. It is rumored that Apple is one of these companies, ..." sometimes realy nice if you look into past rumors ... - I hope he will convert the other isues) And check http://www.sunyit.edu/~cet/FACILITIES.HTML and http://www.ece.engr.ucf.edu/AOS/comp_arch_digit_systems.html and http://www.kersur.net/~glagowsk/courses.htm#EE314 or http://www.engr.uark.edu/engr/departments/eleg/academics/courses/3923.html Seems that this system have been quite populat among univs. There are a lot more sources to find (and dont't forget Mot itself: http://www.mot.com/SPS/HPESD/prod/0X0/frames/68K.html ) Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From emu at ecubics.com Sat May 8 11:21:04 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" Message-ID: <005001be996e$c5f56a80$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Hi, -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 10:03 AM Subject: Re: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" >(BTW: >http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/68k.htm >is a usefull source for 'old' 68K systems, including >an complete HTML Version of the DTACK GROUNDED newsletter >from 7/81 until 9/83 (excerpt from the first issue: >"...Accordingly, there are a lot of companies who are >planning to drive the PDP 11/70 out of the marketplace >with $10,000 (base price) 68000 systems. It is rumored >that Apple is one of these companies, ..." sometimes >realy nice if you look into past rumors ... - I hope >he will convert the other isues) Talking about getting the pdp11 out of the marketplace, Anybody know the cadmus systems ? I would love to have one of these. (where Motorola CPU's on qbus) cheers, emanuel From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Sat May 8 13:32:20 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" In-Reply-To: <005001be996e$c5f56a80$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Message-ID: <199905081633.SAA10689@horus.mch.sni.de> > >(BTW: > >http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/68k.htm > >is a usefull source for 'old' 68K systems, including > >an complete HTML Version of the DTACK GROUNDED newsletter > >from 7/81 until 9/83 (excerpt from the first issue: > >"...Accordingly, there are a lot of companies who are > >planning to drive the PDP 11/70 out of the marketplace > >with $10,000 (base price) 68000 systems. It is rumored > >that Apple is one of these companies, ..." sometimes > >realy nice if you look into past rumors ... - I hope > >he will convert the other isues) > Talking about getting the pdp11 out of the marketplace, > Anybody know the cadmus systems ? > I would love to have one of these. > (where Motorola CPU's on qbus) Hard to find these days, even here in Munich (PCS was a Munich based Company (... err is, but they stoped to build Server and workstation systems years ago). I whish I could give a hint. Gruss H. ( _I_ did help to build computers at PCS ... or to be honest, the mother of my best friend did work at PCS and back in the late 70s she aranged to get some 'home work' for us - we did bend resistor legs and similar stuff for small series productions and prototypes ...) -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat May 8 11:38:26 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Seeking: Digi-Comp 1 Advnaced Programming Manual Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990508093826.00af2ca0@agora.rdrop.com> ...or whatever it was called! The extra book of programming expirements (games?) for the Digi-Comp 1. Either hard-copy or electronic would be fine. Thanks! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.COM Sat May 8 11:36:18 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.COM (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.COM) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Compupro computer questions Message-ID: <990508123618.2540014c@trailing-edge.com> > I picked up a Compupro 816 computer yesterday and an external drive unit >with a hard drive and an 8" floppy drive. I haven't brought it home yet so >I haven't taken more than a quick look at it. Can anyone tell be about the >computer and drive? What CPU, speed, etc. What kind of operating system it >uses, etc. If it's using the same CPU's it shipped with, it has a 8085A and a 8088A on a 85/88 CPU board. Speed is 2 or 5 MHz, depending on what the big red switch labeled "SPEED" on the CPU board is set at. Of course, it's a S-100 box, so just about anything could have been dropped in at either the factory (special-order), the Compupro dealer, or by the end user. Typically the system either ran CP/M-80, CP/M-86, or a special Compupro version that was basically CP/M-86 but would also run 8-bit executables on the 8085. There were many aftermarket CPU's available, some with 80286's on them and 8 MHz Z-80's, that were commonly dropped into Compupro chassis. > I don't see a keyboard or video connectors so I assume it needs >a terminal to talk to it. Very likely, yes. Most likely, it has a System Support 1 board with console serial port, clock, and interrupt controllers. But there are lots of other ways to set up a S-100 system. > Does any have a pinout of the serial port so I >can make a terminal cable. Look for a 25-pin cable from the System Support 1. It's plain old RS-232. Depending on which OS and version you run, and how it was generated, you might need to assert DTR. > What size is the hard and floppy drives You tell us :-). A Compupro 816 most likely shipped with a Qume Datatrack DSDD 8" floppy drive, a bit over a Megabyte, most likely hooked to a Disk 1 (or 1A or 1B or 1C) controller in the S-100 chassis. The hard drive is likely a MFM drive, anywhere between 5 and 30 Megabytes, hooked to a Disk 3. Again, just about anything was orderable/configurable. > does >the floppy drive use hard sectored disks, etc etc, etc. Almost certainly soft-sectored disks. > I noticed that >there are connectors for both a 5.25" and an 8" floppy drives and another >for a hard drive on the back of the CPU box. Does anyone have a manual or >the OS software for one of these? Sure. I bought out the last Canadian Compupro dealer while I was in Vancouver and have manuals, configuration software, etc. Let us know what's *in* your box and you'll get more details. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 8 11:49:31 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Compupro computer questions Message-ID: <199905081649.AA18386@world.std.com> I have one of these, a working (tried it, worked) and reassembled it as Compupro CPU-Z. No interest here in programming 8088. < I picked up a Compupro 816 computer yesterday and an external drive unit References: <3.0.1.16.19990508113026.227fb120@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990508124810.22ff441c@intellistar.net> At 06:01 PM 5/8/99 +1, Derek wrote: >Motorola used this term for several 68K and 68xx SBC systems. >A good information is at >http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/mecb/mecb.htm Bingo! That's it. The picture matches it exactly. Thanks for the URLs. Joe From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sat May 8 08:35:33 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <199905081518.AA03423@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199905081729.NAA16960@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 11:18:29 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Breathing new life in laptop batteries > Then again tabbed cells for replacement use run from ~$1.50 to $4 depending > on size (not at radio shack, they charge 3x that!). So replacing the cells > (as a set) is the best bet. > > My PX-8 uses 4 1.2ah sub C cells that I can get for under 10$ total and > the internal 4 cell 110ma sub AA the whole pack for usually under 5$. > > Allison Allison, That are those prices I find very reasonable when even converted to CDN dollars! Problem is at both local battery reseller charges about $10 a cell for most sizes and RS sells way too small capacity sizes for those prices as well. I haven't seen prices on www.nica.ca because I haven't asked there about their prices. Oh, are anyone able to buy tabbed AAAA NiCd's? I can't anywhere in whole ontario even canada. I subbed them for homemade 4 cells disc type out of 2 sets for phone but the space is TIGHT FIT! I know of at least 2 notebooks used these: Toshiba 1000XE and Zenith w/ 386SL type. I have seen battery pack rebuilt using reused straps. Bad weld spots and holes! I choose to resolder by lap fashion on tabbed ones or buy premade bare pack assembled and spotwelded packs to "drop in" existing packs with little solder work. Wizard From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat May 8 14:11:06 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" Message-ID: <19990508.141141.218.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Yeah, There's one just like it living in the 68000 trainer I got from wirehead last fall. Too kewl. On Sat, 08 May 1999 12:48:10 Joe writes: >At 06:01 PM 5/8/99 +1, Derek wrote: > >>Motorola used this term for several 68K and 68xx SBC systems. >>A good information is at >>http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/mecb/mecb.htm > > Bingo! That's it. The picture matches it exactly. Thanks for the >URLs. > > Joe > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat May 8 14:19:40 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: MINC-11 Bits Message-ID: <19990508.141943.218.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> ARe MINC-11 parts scarce? Anybody out there with one of these? Also: Whazza 'FSD' disk drive? Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat May 8 10:31:50 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Atari modem In-Reply-To: References: <199905072046.QAA15171@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199905081931.PAA26453@smtp.interlog.com> On 8 May 99 at 4:31, Doug Spence wrote: > On 07-May-99, Lawrence Walker wrote: > >On 7 May 99 at 6:19, Doug Spence wrote: > > >> Does anyone know what kind of modem this is? And which contacts should > >> be wired to which contacts on the Expansion port? > > > > Hi Doug, nice find. The 130xe is a nice little box. Looks like a junior > >size ST. My favorite of the Atari 8-bits. > > It's certainly not a bad little box, but I like the design of the 800XL > better. I like the top-loading trapdoor cartridge port and the solid feel. > The 130XE feels a little flimsy to me. (And neither of them has a very good > keyboard, IMHO.) > > Considering the colour scheme of the 1050, I think I'll pair up the > power-and-drive unit with an 800XL. :) I have an XF551 drive that goes better > with the 130XE. > The XF551 is getting hard to find, one of the few Atari 8bit peripherals I'm looking for. > > Based on how the guy put this together, I'm wondering whether it is > >indeed a modem. The 8-bit Ataris used an RS232 interface box to connect > >to printers, modems, etc. The Atari model was an 850 but there were also > >3rd party versions, the MEO and the Black Box. > > Atari did make some printers and modems but you need the 850 to get RS232 > >to connect to most peripherals or another computer to transfer disks. > > Hummm... I don't know what else it could be, apart from a modem. It has a > phone cable leading out of it. It's got an RJ-11 jack poking out of the > board. And the board has the Atari logo. Of course, the original casing for > the unit is gone. > > As for disk transfers, I can do that with my handy-dandy A1020 drive on my > Amiga. It reads and writes several Atari 8-bit formats just fine, including > 810 (SS/SD) and XF551 (DS/DD?). > Hmm have to check that out. > So I don't really have an urgent USE for the modem (if that's what it is) but > I would like to see it in action. Maybe I'll have it talk to my Commodore 64, > and start WWIII. :) > The systems co-existed better than the user enthusiasts. > > The comp.sys.atari.8bit newsgroup is quite active and has an excellent > >FAQ. > > Oh yeah. I do have an old Atari 8-bit Computers FAQ... from April 1995. I > should probably collect a more recent version. :) > It's been updated some but basicly the same. > I see the Atari 835, direct connect modem, on the list of 8-bit Atari > hardware. Could it be one of these, or did that also require an RS-232 > interface? > Had some mental heartburn. Of course you could tell an interface from a modem. Just checked my Blue Book. The 835 seems like the likely candidate. The only Atari modems they mention are the accoustik 830 which required an RS232 port and the 835 direct connect which didn't. Compatible w Bell 103/113 series modems.full and 1/2 duplex 300 or 1200 bps Power on and C-D LEDs . > > Did you get system disks with it ? Let me know by e-mail and I can > >supply you with some if necessary. > > I found DOS 2.5 at an earlier date, and I picked up a few disks of games. I > don't have DOS XE. I'll gladly take any .XFD or .ATR images you'd like to > send via e-mail, though. :) > See what I can do. I've got a couple of funky demos and other stuff. There are quite a few sites with images available. > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat May 8 14:47:41 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: MINC-11 Bits In-Reply-To: <19990508.141943.218.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990508124741.011952b0@agora.rdrop.com> At 02:19 PM 5/8/99 -0500, jeff.kaneko wrote: > >ARe MINC-11 parts scarce? Depends on your definition of "scarse" >Anybody out there with one of these? I've got one... It could use a few more modules... >Also: Whazza 'FSD' disk drive? Not a clue... B^} -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat May 8 15:48:07 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" In-Reply-To: <19990508.141141.218.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990508154807.306fcf76@intellistar.net> Kewl! Did you get any manuals or pinouts for it? Joe At 02:11 PM 5/8/99 -0500, you wrote: >Yeah, There's one just like it living in the 68000 trainer >I got from wirehead last fall. Too kewl. > >On Sat, 08 May 1999 12:48:10 Joe writes: >>At 06:01 PM 5/8/99 +1, Derek wrote: >> >>>Motorola used this term for several 68K and 68xx SBC systems. >>>A good information is at >>>http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/mecb/mecb.htm >> >> Bingo! That's it. The picture matches it exactly. Thanks for the >>URLs. >> >> Joe >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat May 8 15:15:59 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: manuals available Message-ID: <199905082015.UAA21946@thorin.cs.umn.edu> I have some old hard drive manuals available, if anyone wants them. Otherwise they will probably be thrown away. Ciprico Rimfire manuals for the 3200 series. Control Data CDC EMD/SABRE eight-inch module drive PA8xx Fujitsu M2351A/AF mini-disk drive Multiple copies are available for everything except the Fujitsu manual. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From edick at idcomm.com Sat May 8 16:46:35 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: manuals available Message-ID: <002001be999c$3f4fe0e0$0100c0a8@fuj03> I've run into Intersil's ICM7228 once again and find my data book doesn't cover that number. It's date coded '87, so It's probably in the last book I got from Intersil before they were acquired by GE. Has anyone got a complete sheet on this part? I believe it is a multi-decade counter/display driver, or maybe just a display driver. thanx Dick From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat May 8 17:13:27 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" Message-ID: <19990508.172050.152.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Naw, no docs, just the thing. :^P On Sat, 08 May 1999 15:48:07 Joe writes: >Kewl! Did you get any manuals or pinouts for it? > > > Joe > >At 02:11 PM 5/8/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Yeah, There's one just like it living in the 68000 trainer >>I got from wirehead last fall. Too kewl. >> >>On Sat, 08 May 1999 12:48:10 Joe writes: >>>At 06:01 PM 5/8/99 +1, Derek wrote: >>> >>>>Motorola used this term for several 68K and 68xx SBC systems. >>>>A good information is at >>>>http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/mecb/mecb.htm >>> >>> Bingo! That's it. The picture matches it exactly. Thanks for the > >>>URLs. >>> >>> Joe >>> >> >>___________________________________________________________________ >>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From edick at idcomm.com Sat May 8 18:28:39 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: archaic device - anyone have doc's??? Message-ID: <000a01be99aa$8116d5c0$0100c0a8@fuj03> sorry about the mistitled post sent earlier . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 3:57 PM Subject: Re: manuals available >I've run into Intersil's ICM7228 once again and find my data book doesn't >cover that number. It's date coded '87, so It's probably in the last book I >got from Intersil before they were acquired by GE. > >Has anyone got a complete sheet on this part? I believe it is a >multi-decade counter/display driver, or maybe just a display driver. > >thanx > >Dick > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 8 17:19:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:55 2005 Subject: Breathing new life in laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <000201be990a$eb816100$3cb620d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> from "Francois" at May 7, 99 11:24:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1225 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990508/a2a0d700/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 8 18:16:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: B020 Transputer Graphics Board info In-Reply-To: from "Rmeenaks@aol.com" at May 8, 99 06:50:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2276 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990509/901b950c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 8 18:21:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: MINC-11 Bits In-Reply-To: <19990508.141943.218.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "jeff.kaneko@juno.com" at May 8, 99 02:19:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 472 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990509/5f48a7aa/attachment.ksh From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat May 8 16:38:52 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: archaic device - anyone have doc's??? In-Reply-To: <000a01be99aa$8116d5c0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990508163852.21af8ecc@earthlink.net> At 05:28 PM 5/8/99 -0600, Richard wrote: >sorry about the mistitled post sent earlier . . . > >>I've run into Intersil's ICM7228 once again and find my data book doesn't >>cover that number. It's date coded '87, so It's probably in the last book >I >>got from Intersil before they were acquired by GE. Check www.maxim-ic.com, their data is on-line. I didn't check GE/Intersil. It is a 8 digit LED display driver. It says their part ICM7128 replaces both ICM7218 and 7228, although these type parts can be confusing as the pinouts and features vary greatly with the suffix, in this case A through D. -Dave From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 8 21:27:33 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: PDT-11/150 Message-ID: OK, I just picked up a PDT-11/150 today for $5 at a local junk store. I know that it is some sort of PDP-11, but that is about the extent of my knowledge. Main thing I'm wondering at the moment is what was its intended use? Also what OS's run on it? I would guess RT-11 will run on it, but not much else. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat May 8 20:48:08 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: New find Message-ID: <000701be99bd$fd3aa420$cc711fd1@5x86jk> Today at a Police auction I picked up IBM AS/400 model 9309 for $25 for the rack and other parts. Not sure when I will be able to fire it up. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 8 22:00:16 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: New find In-Reply-To: <000701be99bd$fd3aa420$cc711fd1@5x86jk> Message-ID: >Today at a Police auction I picked up IBM AS/400 model 9309 for $25 for the >rack and other parts. Not sure when I will be able to fire it up. Very, very cool sounding. Two questions, does it have the OS, and secondly how hard is it to get the OS for one? The AS/400's sound rather interesting. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sat May 8 21:08:17 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: info wanted: Motorola "Educational Computer" In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990508124810.22ff441c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at May 8, 99 12:48:10 pm Message-ID: <199905090208.TAA17503@saul6.u.washington.edu> Joe wrote: > At 06:01 PM 5/8/99 +1, Derek wrote: ^^^^^ > > >Motorola used this term for several 68K and 68xx SBC systems. > >A good information is at > >http://people.delphi.com/paulrsm/68k/mecb/mecb.htm > > Bingo! That's it. The picture matches it exactly. Thanks for the URLs. > > Joe That wasn't me (or any other Derek) -- it was Hans Franke. Anyway, the time stamp says "+1" and Washington definitely isn't in that time zone. Might be nice though. Now if we were in two time zones at once, THAT would be nice. Good luck with your new find. -- Derek From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat May 8 17:18:03 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? Message-ID: <199905090217.WAA13639@smtp.interlog.com> I picked up a Zenith Data Systems all-in-one box from the trash a few days ago. Lovely cosmetic condition. Unfortunately there's no response on the monitor. The fan spins up so it is getting power. Other than the Heath address on the back it has no model #. It looks like the pictures I have seen of the Z-100. Do the first models of Z-100 have a model # on them ? It has a siemens fdd and a really nice FD image decal labelled Xidex. The rear sockets are labelled DCE and DTE , connected to a serial I/O daughter card, FR-1 a 34 pin socket FR-2 a40 pin which are connected to a Disk Interface daughter card and the fdd has a daughter card Disk I/O and a free hanging connector for an external floppy. The serial I/O is hard wired to another card labelled Albrektson Sound/Clock H-89 which has a lead to an external RCA connector Cassette I/O as well as a battery pak and a mini-speaker. There is a video card on the bottom. The vertical mounted motherboard has pins for 5 daughter cards and a Z-80 CPU. There's 48 k mem and an additional 16 k daughter card. Another card the same dimension is mounted behind the MB and is labelled Terminal Logic. It also has a Z-80 as well as a Motorola 6845L chip. Any Z-100 people out there ? I guess the question is do I try and ressurect it ? It has such a nice-looking KB and is in such good cosmetic shape that it would hurt to junk it. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From mbg at world.std.com Sat May 8 21:25:49 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: PDT-11/150 Message-ID: <199905090225.AA07477@world.std.com> >OK, I just picked up a PDT-11/150 today for $5 at a local junk store. I >know that it is some sort of PDP-11, but that is about the extent of my >knowledge. Main thing I'm wondering at the moment is what was its intended >use? It is a PDP-11, using the LSI-11/2 (and 11/03) chip set. It can have up to 60kb of user-available memory, a console line (programmed like a DL), 3 other serial lines, an asynch/sync line and a printer port. The floppy disks are 8" RX01 compatible drives. The interesting thing is that this device can format the disks, not by some special format command procedure... it formats a sector when it writes it... The on-board ROMs know about RT-11 Queue elements, so the RT driver simply calls the ROM to handle the I/O, and the ROM returns if there was an error, or when the request is complete. >Also what OS's run on it? I would guess RT-11 will run on it, but not much >else. I don't know of anything else which ever ran on it... (I would be interested to know if there ever was). When you put in a PDT-bootable diskette, you type '@@' (two at-signs) at the console terminal to cause it to boot. I have heard from some that a version with EIS/FIS is called a Mini-Minc... I have several PDTs that I have upgraded myself. Otheriwse, if you locate a EIS/FIS emulator written years ago by Ian Hammond, you can get EIS/FIS programs to run on it. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From roblwill at usaor.net Sun May 9 00:56:33 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse Message-ID: <01be99e0$b0d7a880$568ea6d1@the-general> Hi! Does anyone have, or know where I could find, a mouse for an Apple //c? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From max82 at surfree.com Sat May 8 21:16:36 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse In-Reply-To: <01be99e0$b0d7a880$568ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: >Does anyone have, or know where I could find, a mouse for an Apple //c? This is identical to a Mac 128, 512, or Plus mouse. An Amiga or Atari mouse should also work with proper plug modifications. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sat May 8 22:20:21 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at May 8, 99 10:16:36 pm Message-ID: <199905090320.UAA06040@saul4.u.washington.edu> Max Eskin wrote: > On Sat, 8 May 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: > >Does anyone have, or know where I could find, a mouse for an Apple //c? > > This is identical to a Mac 128, 512, or Plus mouse. An Amiga or Atari > mouse should also work with proper plug modifications. Does the //c come with driver hardware/software? I know on the //e the mouse went with a mouse card. -- Derek From stanp at storm.ca Sat May 8 22:24:12 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DS References: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <3734FFDB.4369CC2B@storm.ca> Chuck McManis wrote: > 1) Can a TK70 drive read/write TK50 tapes? I'm looking for media for the > TK70 to test it and all I've found so far are TK50 tapes (or are they the > same tape?) > > 2) What termination requirements are there on DSSI disks? I powered up the > two RF71's and the KQSFA DSSI controller in the BA213, they spun up and the > ready lights were on but when UNIX probed the controller it saw only one > drive and when I tried to read that drive its FAULT light started flashing. > The cabinet is set up to connect the card to a ribbon cable that connects > both drives and then ends at a funky high density connector (looks a lot > like SCSI-2). > > Thanks, > --Chuck McManis The terminator hanging off the DSSI bus in my MV3500 (KA640) is p.n.: 12-29258-01. If I remember correctly, NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives.. ;-{( Stan From max82 at surfree.com Sat May 8 21:29:45 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse In-Reply-To: <199905090320.UAA06040@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 1999, Derek Peschel wrote: >Does the //c come with driver hardware/software? I know on the //e the >mouse went with a mouse card. The //c has a combination mouse and joystick port. To use the mouse, you need mouse-compatible software. I don't know if a mouse and joystick are interchangable, but I doubt it. Certainly, mouse-compatible Apple ][ software was not rare in the macintosh days. Speaking of which, does anyone here know of a program called Catalyst, designed to imitate a mac on a //c? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From stanp at storm.ca Sat May 8 22:41:42 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives Message-ID: <373503F5.25419181@storm.ca> In my scrounging trips, I've managed to pick up the following mysteries: 1) A quad-height Qbus?? (Unibus?) Emulex TU03. I first thought this might be a SCSI controller, but a closer look indicates that it probably isn't. This board is populated with mostly 14 and 16 pin DIPs, a couple PALs, 40 pin DIPs, and 28 pin PROMs. My next guess would be a tape drive interface..... 2) A couple of Seagate hard drives, complete with a power supply on a mounting channel. These are labelled: Equipment No.: PA4B2A, and on the drive itself: 975002-001. What are these?? I'm pretty sure there not SCSI, but other than that, I'm puzzled.... Stan From jruschme at exit109.com Sat May 8 23:38:33 1999 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse In-Reply-To: <199905090320.UAA06040@saul4.u.washington.edu> from Derek Peschel at "May 8, 99 08:20:21 pm" Message-ID: <199905090438.AAA04040@crobin.home.org> > Max Eskin wrote: > > On Sat, 8 May 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > >Does anyone have, or know where I could find, a mouse for an Apple //c? > > > > This is identical to a Mac 128, 512, or Plus mouse. An Amiga or Atari > > mouse should also work with proper plug modifications. > > Does the //c come with driver hardware/software? I know on the //e the > mouse went with a mouse card. The //c has a combined mouse/joystick port which is the equivalent of the mouse card. <<>> From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat May 8 23:35:52 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: New find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01be99d5$6b9ba9c0$41701fd1@5x86jk> I got an IBM service tape (reel)with it and it has 4 hard drives and I'm hoping they still have the OS on one of them. It came from the city surplus warehouse and the guy told me that they paid over $300,000 for it 10 years ago. He said it just ran out of memory for them to keep using it. Once I get to power it up I will update you on the OS. John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 1999 10:00 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: New find > > > >Today at a Police auction I picked up IBM AS/400 model 9309 for > $25 for the > >rack and other parts. Not sure when I will be able to fire it up. > > Very, very cool sounding. Two questions, does it have the OS, > and secondly > how hard is it to get the OS for one? The AS/400's sound rather > interesting. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sun May 9 00:14:16 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives Message-ID: <19990509.001418.208.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Sat, 08 May 1999 23:41:42 -0400 Stan Pietkiewicz writes: >2) A couple of Seagate hard drives, complete with a power supply on a >mounting channel. These are labelled: Equipment No.: PA4B2A, and on >the >drive itself: 975002-001. What are these?? I'm pretty sure there not >SCSI, but other than that, I'm puzzled.... What size are they? Are they 8" or 5.25? If it is 5.25" (likely) then it looks like it is an "Elite" class IPI-2 or SMD drive (unclear). One reference says IPI, another implies SMD. The nearest equipment # match is for PA4B/F, and this is an IPI-2, 1.2 gig drive. (ST-41201K). Hopefully, someone will have more accurate info. > >Stan > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From mbg at world.std.com Sun May 9 00:28:00 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DS References: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <199905090528.AA11348@world.std.com> >If I remember correctly, NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives.. ;-{( Does it specifically need to? After all, the KFQSA, which is what the drives would hang off of, emulates one or more MSCP interfaces, like RQDX3s, which I would suspect NetBSD would support... Maybe they will 'Just Work'(tm). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mranalog at home.com Sun May 9 03:38:17 1999 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: CURSOR and Commodore cassettes Message-ID: <37354979.FEEB991D@home.com> Doug Spence wrote: > Does anyone have the program "RACE" from Cursor #2? About a year ago, I transfered the first 15 or so CURSOR tapes to Commodore disk for Larry Anderson to put up on his BBS. I did it in a hurry and didn't keep a copy of the disks. You can ask him for a copy or I can try to "dig" the box of CURSOR tape out of which ever pile it wound up in. If I can find the tape, I can transfer it to the pc on the little C64 dev station I set up at work. Let me know. Doug Spence wrote: >I need some information about the Commodore cassette storage format. >....snip..... >In the data portions, it appears as if every 20th wave is special About a year and a half ago, I took my shot at converting wave files. Unfortunately I had to move on to other projects just as I was making progress. First, IMHO if you are sampling at less than 44.1, you are making things too hard on yourself. I did find the format of the header in a book and now I can't remember which book it was, but I'm fairly certain it was a PET book. I started with a test program consisting of: 10 REM ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ Then I wrote a C program to measure pulses from "bottom to bottom". Analyzing the data, I choose 15 samples as the difference between small pulse and a large one. 15 or less was small and 16 or greater was a large. > with maximum amplitude and a smaller frequency. Yes, this is a sync bit at the start of ever byte. Watching for this will tell you when the data begins. Below I have copied the begining of the last test output I ran. First there is a row of pulse lengths (in samples) (20 17 17 14 14 17 14 17 17 12 14 17 13 16 13 16 16 14 13 17) Then there is a row where zero is a "small pulse", 1 is a "large" pulse. ( 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 ) With that information, I determine the byte like this: * the first two pulses are 1 and 1 - this is the sync bit. * the next two pulses are the low order bit * a 1 followed by a 0 is a 1 * a 0 followed by a 1 is a 0 * and the last two pulses is the parity bit So in the first line of data: 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 represents hex 89. This is just a small portion of the output file. It shows the header up to and including the filename (TEST1). If you want, I can sent you the rest of this file off list. ; ; Cassette Tape Analysis of c6444812.wav Created 09/11/97 ; Silence............for 0x0024F2 bytes at byte count 0x000024F3 Reading leader....... Silence............for 0x001C77 bytes at byte count 0x00004296 Reading leader....... Leader = 27136 Reading data....... 20 17 17 14 14 17 14 17 17 12 14 17 13 16 13 16 16 14 13 17 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 89 20 16 14 17 14 17 14 17 16 13 13 17 13 16 13 16 16 13 16 14 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 88 20 16 17 14 17 14 16 13 13 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 16 14 17 14 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 87 20 16 13 17 17 13 16 13 13 15 13 16 13 16 13 16 16 13 13 17 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 86 20 16 17 14 14 17 17 13 12 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 17 13 13 17 1 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 85 20 16 14 17 13 16 17 13 13 16 14 16 13 16 13 16 16 14 17 14 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 84 19 17 17 14 16 14 13 16 13 16 14 16 13 16 13 17 16 13 13 17 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 83 20 16 14 17 17 13 13 17 14 16 13 16 13 16 14 17 17 14 16 13 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 82 19 16 17 14 13 16 14 16 14 16 13 17 13 16 13 17 16 13 16 14 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 81 19 17 17 13 13 17 14 17 13 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 01 20 17 17 14 14 17 14 17 14 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 01 20 17 14 17 15 17 14 17 16 13 13 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 08 20 16 17 15 17 13 13 16 13 16 13 16 16 13 13 16 13 16 13 16 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 23 # 20 16 14 17 14 16 13 16 17 13 13 16 14 16 13 16 13 16 13 16 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 08 19 16 14 17 14 17 17 13 13 16 16 13 13 16 17 14 13 17 14 16 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 54 T 19 16 17 15 13 17 16 13 13 16 13 16 13 16 16 14 13 17 14 17 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 45 E 20 17 17 14 17 14 13 17 13 17 16 13 13 16 16 13 13 17 17 14 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 53 S 20 16 14 17 14 16 17 13 13 17 16 13 13 16 16 14 13 17 13 16 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 54 T 19 16 17 14 13 17 14 16 13 16 16 13 17 14 14 16 13 16 13 16 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 31 1 19 16 14 17 15 17 13 16 13 16 13 16 16 13 13 16 14 17 14 17 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 20 I hope this helps, --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum/ and the new Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ==================================================== From mranalog at home.com Sun May 9 04:17:22 1999 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: CURSOR and Commodore cassettes References: <37354979.FEEB991D@home.com> Message-ID: <373552A2.437271A6@home.com> I wrote: > I hope this helps, > --Doug I should have added that my next logical step, if I had continued with this project, would have been to wait pass the sync bit. Then time two pulses together and if the first pulse ended BEFORE one half of the length of both pulses then it's a zero bit and if it ended AFTER one half of the length of both pulses then it's a 1. And use the parity bit to check the result. If there is an error then rewind the file back to the last sync bit. I hope that's clear :) and helps, --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum/ and the new Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ==================================================== From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 9 05:58:06 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives In-Reply-To: Stan Pietkiewicz "Mystery board and drives" (May 8, 23:41) References: <373503F5.25419181@storm.ca> Message-ID: <9905091158.ZM7557@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 8, 23:41, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > Subject: Mystery board and drives > In my scrounging trips, I've managed to pick up the following mysteries: > > 1) A quad-height Qbus?? (Unibus?) Emulex TU03. I first thought this > might be a SCSI controller, but a closer look indicates that it probably > isn't. This board is populated with mostly 14 and 16 pin DIPs, a couple > PALs, 40 pin DIPs, and 28 pin PROMs. My next guess would be a tape > drive interface..... Almost certainly Q-bus, since it's quad-height (all the Unibus Emulex controllers I've seen are hex), and T means Tape. I'd guess it's a TU10 emulator or similar. What are the connectors like? If it has 2 x 50-way headers, it'll be a Pertec interface. BTW, was somebody looking for the Pertec interface pinouts a few days ago? I found the ASCII and PostScript files if anyone needs them... > 2) A couple of Seagate hard drives, complete with a power supply on a > mounting channel. These are labelled: Equipment No.: PA4B2A, and on the > drive itself: 975002-001. What are these?? I'm pretty sure there not > SCSI, but other than that, I'm puzzled.... 975002 looks like an IPI or SMD drive number, but it doesn't quite match any in my lists. Are there any other numbers? What kind of connectors are on it? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rcini at email.msn.com Sat May 8 07:14:06 1999 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Commodore cassette format Message-ID: <00bc01be9a0f$be4173a0$8e932599@office1> Here's a transcript of a converstation I had with Jim Butterfield about the Commodore cassette format: ==================== #: 42513 S2/Programming (CIS:CBMAPP) 31-Jul-97 17:49:07 Sb: CBM programming info Fm: Jim Butterfield 73624,14 To: Richard Cini/WUGNET 70153,3367 Replies: 0 TID: 8132 Par: 42485 Chd: 0 Sib: 0 > I seem to be missing some info on the following: info on the structure of > the tape header, and the equates for the "I/O Error#" messages (i.e., the > descriptions behind the error numbers). Can anyone point me in the right > direction on this? Hoo-eee! You picked a dilly of a complex format to look at (and some heavy code to read .. I swear that I could rewrite it into about half the ROM!). Probably the best place to start is on page 97 of the Inner Space Anthology. where there's some basic data by some guy called Butterfield: Leader = 50 cycles of Shorts Short = 182 microseconds half cycle or 2.75 Khz Long = 262 microseconds half cycle or 1.91 KHz Mark = 342 microseconds half cycle or 1.48 KHz BYTE MARKER = Mark Mark Long Long (What goes mark mark? A dog with a harelip. Oops, sorry, continuing..) 1-bit: Long Long Short Short 0-bit: Short Short Long Long Data Byte = Byte marker, 8 1/0 bits, 1 1/0 odd-parity bit' about 9.02 milliseconds total. Leader detail (I'm faking this one from memory); after the leader, there's a countdown byte series from about 0F hex to 00 hex; on the "second" block, the countdown is repeated with the high bit set, thus, 8F down to 80 hex. Tape File Format: Leader - header block - data block - possible end block. (All blocks written twice). Hope this gets you started. --Jim ================== #: 42554 S2/Programming (CIS:CBMAPP) 01-Aug-97 14:41:14 Sb: CBM programming info Fm: Jim Butterfield 73624,14 To: Richard Cini/WUGNET 70153,3367 Replies: 0 TID: 8132 Par: 42522 Chd: 0 Sib: 0 > I guess that the "countdown blocks" really are some sort of synchronization > before the header block? Yes. As I recall the code (it's been a while!), the reading program looks for this stream; when it finds an identifiable countdown byte, it just counts off the remaining characters until it gets to the data. It always seemed a bit like overkill to me. And when you get into the code itself, you'll find some quite obscure stuff in there trying to synchronize with the tape speed (a sort of self-correcting timing). Tough reading. > I'd like to get my hands on the "Inner Space Anthology" book. Can you help > there?? Karl Hildon, the compiler of the anthology, recently reprinted a quantity, with some C128 data added (the original anthology was published before the 128 arrived). I see his email address has been posted. Since Karl republished using a copying machine (including a colour copies for the cover), I believe he's asking about $20 for a copy. But check it out directly with him. If for any reason you can't find him, come back to me. --Jim ================== #: 42698 S2/Programming (CIS:CBMAPP) 08-Aug-97 12:07:27 Sb: CBM programming info Fm: Jim Butterfield 73624,14 To: Richard Cini/WUGNET 70153,3367 Replies: 0 TID: 8132 Par: 42665 Chd: 0 Sib: 0 > Am I doing the math wrong?? You have me at a couple of disadvantage. It's been something like 18 years since I picked apart the tape code, os it's nor fresh in my mind. To add to my difficulties, I have a vision problem at the moment which hopefully will be corrected by surgery in the fall ... but it makes it hard for me to do detailed picking through listings. Before I start sounding like I'm copping out, I will have some comments for you that may explain at least part of the discrepancy. But first, a couple more vague excuses: darned if I can remember where those timing numbers came from after all this time; seems likely that I filched them from a Commdore design spec, or someone measured them with a time base calibrated scope. I tend to doubt that I sweated through counting microseconds. And in this response, I should mention that my original investigations were on the PET 2001, my snoop today was on the C128 (built-in monitor makes exploring easier). And a caution to anyone with a Plus-4 or C-16 .. the code (and tape format) is not the same for those two machines. Here's the deal, I think: All this stuff is running off an IRQ. The "last" think the tape routine does is to set the timer ("last" is in quotes because there may be other IRQ jobs done after the tape work). BUT: after the timer is set, and the interrupt finally hits to signal that the time has elapsed, it will be quite a few microseconds before the tape routines will get to the point where they will set the timer again. First, the IRQ goes though the ROM routine which stashes the registers. Then, it does an indirect jump to the tape-write code; but it has to do quite a bit of investigation before it gets around to setting up the timer again. Even the timer routines you quote are within a subroutine, and of course it takes time to make the call, set up the numbers, etc. I might guess that the overhead taken to get to the "bit write" timer set could be in the region of 86 machine cycles. Thus, a timer value of $B0 or decimal 176 would actually generate a time of 176+86 machine cycles, or 262 cycles; a value of $60 or decimal 96 would produce 96+86 or 182 cycles. (Works out so exactly that, gosh, maybe long ago I did painstakingly count all the machine cycles .. if so, I've blissfully forgotten doing so). In looking at the code, you'll note that the byte marker is detected earlier in the interrupt sequence; I'll guess a delay or 70 (rather than 86) to get to that timer sequence. This would generate $110 or 272 o the timer producing an overall time of 272+70 or 342 machine cycles. Now, about the clock actually running at 1.1082 MHz. The original PET didn't have an interface to NTSC video, and the clock ran at precisely 1 MHz. So the calculation were correct during the ancient PET/CBM days; but it appears Commodore didn't see any need to trimthe figures by 10% when they changed the clock to match video frequencies. Never thought of that; but I expect that it's true that machines from the VIC-20 onward wrote tape about 9% faster than the earlier machines. I wonder if they made any adjustment for European machines, which likely had another clock frequency so as to be PAL compatible. Does the above sound like a plausible theory? --Jim p.s. The tape WRITE part is easy ... when you get to that read stuff, with multiple timers going, it's gonna be real fun. ================= [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun May 9 07:31:45 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives Message-ID: <990509083145.25400198@trailing-edge.com> >1) A quad-height Qbus?? (Unibus?) Emulex TU03. I first thought this >might be a SCSI controller, but a closer look indicates that it probably >isn't. This board is populated with mostly 14 and 16 pin DIPs, a couple >PALs, 40 pin DIPs, and 28 pin PROMs. My next guess would be a tape >drive interface..... This is a TC13. A Unibus Pertec-Formatted tape controller, emulating TS11/TU80. >2) A couple of Seagate hard drives, complete with a power supply on a >mounting channel. These are labelled: Equipment No.: PA4B2A, and on the >drive itself: 975002-001. What are these?? I'm pretty sure there not >SCSI, but other than that, I'm puzzled.... What sort of connector? If a 60-pin and a 26-pin, then they're SMD. The "9750" part of the part number sounds like a CDC part number - Seagate bought out CDC's disk drive business many years ago. Tim. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun May 9 07:37:42 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: PDT-11/150 Message-ID: <990509083742.25400198@trailing-edge.com> >>Also what OS's run on it? I would guess RT-11 will run on it, but not much >>else. >I don't know of anything else which ever ran on it... (I would be >interested to know if there ever was). There is support for running tasks on PDT's via RSX-11S. While that's an operating system, it *isn't* a development environment :-). Tim. From owad at caesarville.net Sun May 9 08:56:39 1999 From: owad at caesarville.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse Message-ID: <199905091359.GAA22136@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Speaking of which, does >anyone here know of a program called Catalyst, designed to imitate a mac >on a //c? I've heard of it (in fact, I think I own a copy). Isn't Catalyst just a program launcher? Tom Owad From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun May 9 09:22:21 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: PDT-11/150 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "May 8, 1999 6:27:33 pm" Message-ID: <199905091422.KAA35881@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > OK, I just picked up a PDT-11/150 today for $5 at a local junk store. I > know that it is some sort of PDP-11, but that is about the extent of my > knowledge. Main thing I'm wondering at the moment is what was its intended > use? > > Also what OS's run on it? I would guess RT-11 will run on it, but not much > else. > > Zane Cool. RT11's about it, although I used to have a bootleg of the UCSD Pascal for the PDT11/150. $5.00 is a great price. They're pretty rare. Most ended up in the hands of DEC folks in an employee sale. I first learned RT11 on one. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From a2k at one.net Sun May 9 10:23:21 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: New find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Today at a Police auction I picked up IBM AS/400 model 9309 for $25 for the > >rack and other parts. Not sure when I will be able to fire it up. > > Very, very cool sounding. Two questions, does it have the OS, and secondly > how hard is it to get the OS for one? The AS/400's sound rather > interesting. > Eh? OS isn't hard to find... depending on what you want to run on it.. Linux is free, and is stable from what I've heard.. Kevin From thompson at athenet.net Sun May 9 10:50:29 1999 From: thompson at athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: New find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Was the AS400 used by the police or seized in some manner? I purchased some DSSI drives which were originally used by a municipality, including its police department. Some interesting information was left on the disk. All they had to do was use the ERASE program in the DSSI firmware and they could have sent a completely blank disk. I did this for them. I don't believe that Linux is supported on the AS400. In fact, AIX probably isn't supported if this is a CISC AS400, which it probably is judging from its price and age. If it's RISC I believe AIX still requires a pricey firmware change. Paul On Sun, 9 May 1999, LordTyran wrote: > > > >Today at a Police auction I picked up IBM AS/400 model 9309 for $25 > for the > >rack and other parts. Not sure when I will be able to fire it > up. > > Very, very cool sounding. Two questions, does it have the OS, > and secondly > how hard is it to get the OS for one? The AS/400's sound > rather > interesting. > Eh? OS isn't hard to find... depending on what > you want to run on it.. Linux is free, and is stable from what I've > heard.. > > Kevin > > From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun May 9 10:56:31 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse In-Reply-To: <199905091359.GAA22136@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at May 9, 99 09:56:39 am Message-ID: <199905091556.IAA16110@saul7.u.washington.edu> Tom Owad wrote: > >Speaking of which, does > >anyone here know of a program called Catalyst, designed to imitate a mac > >on a //c? > > I've heard of it (in fact, I think I own a copy). Isn't Catalyst just a > program launcher? I'm glad you said that, because I was going to say the same thing! The problem is that I remember almost nothing about the program, so I wasn't sure if I was imagining it. The one we had was made (I think) by a company called Quark. We used it as a menu-driven shell to run programs off a ProFile. (Yes, this WAS on an Apple //e. The ProFile came from the Lisa in my dad's office after his company scrapped it. Sorry, I don't have the Lisa or the ProFile or the interface card or Catalyst or even the //e. I wish I did.) It was supposed to do fancy things, and it was copy-protected pretty heavily. I don't know why the company hyped it so much. It might have helped you install ill-behaved programs on the hard drive. I kind of remember using it as a boot disk though I also kind of remember that the hard drive was capable of booting itself. I would put Catalyst in the category of "software produced by a small company that thought they were great and made great software, except no one else agreed." The company copy-protected their disks very heavily, too... I was never able to back Catalyst up, even with Copy ][+. I think I wiped out one of the two identical diskettes we got, and I think it was when I was trying to copy the software. I hope this message is useful -- I just like to reminisce about my Apple experience. :) -- Derek From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 9 11:05:16 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: PDT-11/150 Message-ID: <199905091605.AA11520@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 1999, Tom Owad wrote: >I've heard of it (in fact, I think I own a copy). Isn't Catalyst just a >program launcher? Well, so is the System :) In the review that I have, it discusses the loading of multiple programs on an Apple /// onto the Profile drive, bypassing copy protection schemes. The review is of an Apple ][ version, which takes advantage of ProDOS. This is simply a program launcher like the many shells available for MS-DOS. However, it does have some DA-like things like Calculator. From the other mail I saw saying that only they thought it was great, I agree. This seems like a mediocre shell like the many shells available for MS-DOS. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From mark_k at iname.com Sun May 9 12:25:30 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 7 May 1999 Tony Duell wrote: > Take off the spring. I believe that you can normally take the collet > apart further, but this isn't in the manual. Apply a smear of grease > (either plastic grease or vaseline) to the spindle and reassemble. Put > the spring on with the smaller end against the collet. Tried doing that, and it didn't help. It turns out that the C-clip was vibrating, causing the noise; I should probably have figured that out sooner. Putting some grease in the groove that the clip fits into solved the problem. I guess using a hot-melt glue gun would do the job too. (Maybe this info will be of use to someone in future?) -- Mark From a2k at one.net Sun May 9 12:32:51 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: New find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, my bad, I was misinformed. Linux does not run on the AS/400 Sorry, Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k@one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon@nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| -------------------------------------------------------------------- From stanp at storm.ca Sun May 9 15:34:49 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives References: <19990509.001418.208.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3735F168.A99ABDFE@storm.ca> jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > On Sat, 08 May 1999 23:41:42 -0400 Stan Pietkiewicz > writes: > > >2) A couple of Seagate hard drives, complete with a power supply on a > >mounting channel. These are labelled: Equipment No.: PA4B2A, and on > >the > >drive itself: 975002-001. What are these?? I'm pretty sure there not > >SCSI, but other than that, I'm puzzled.... > > What size are they? Are they 8" or 5.25? > If it is 5.25" (likely) then it looks like it is an > "Elite" class IPI-2 or SMD drive (unclear). > They're 5.25"... The two of them cam mounted in a rack-mount case (length-wise), with the power supply at the back. There is room for two more of these in the chassis. As near as I can tell, they were connected to a Sun system of some sort. The interface connectors at the back of the chassis are DB-50, just like what Sun used early on for SCSI connections..... > One reference says IPI, another implies SMD. > The nearest equipment # match is for PA4B/F, and this > is an IPI-2, 1.2 gig drive. (ST-41201K). > > Hopefully, someone will have more accurate info. > > > > >Stan > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From stanp at storm.ca Sun May 9 15:40:06 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives References: <373503F5.25419181@storm.ca> <9905091158.ZM7557@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3735F2A5.762BD3B3@storm.ca> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 8, 23:41, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > > Subject: Mystery board and drives > > In my scrounging trips, I've managed to pick up the following mysteries: > > > > 1) A quad-height Qbus?? (Unibus?) Emulex TU03. I first thought this > > might be a SCSI controller, but a closer look indicates that it probably > > isn't. This board is populated with mostly 14 and 16 pin DIPs, a couple > > PALs, 40 pin DIPs, and 28 pin PROMs. My next guess would be a tape > > drive interface..... > > Almost certainly Q-bus, since it's quad-height (all the Unibus Emulex > controllers I've seen are hex), and T means Tape. I'd guess it's a TU10 > emulator or similar. What are the connectors like? If it has 2 x 50-way > headers, it'll be a Pertec interface. They are indeed 2 * 50 pin headers, with a 4 position switch between them... Another reply suggests it would be Unibus... I'm not planning on plugging it into my MicroVAX 3600 until I know for sure.... > > > BTW, was somebody looking for the Pertec interface pinouts a few days ago? > I found the ASCII and PostScript files if anyone needs them... > > > 2) A couple of Seagate hard drives, complete with a power supply on a > > mounting channel. These are labelled: Equipment No.: PA4B2A, and on the > > drive itself: 975002-001. What are these?? I'm pretty sure there not > > SCSI, but other than that, I'm puzzled.... > > 975002 looks like an IPI or SMD drive number, but it doesn't quite match > any in my lists. Are there any other numbers? What kind of connectors are > on it? The interface connectors are a 50 pin ribbon connector. Other numbers... none that I found... Another message suggests that they are IPI-2... > > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York From stanp at storm.ca Sun May 9 15:46:06 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DS References: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <199905090528.AA11348@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3735F40D.83A41AC@storm.ca> Megan wrote: > >If I remember correctly, NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives.. ;-{( > > Does it specifically need to? After all, the KFQSA, which is what > the drives would hang off of, emulates one or more MSCP interfaces, > like RQDX3s, which I would suspect NetBSD would support... > > Maybe they will 'Just Work'(tm). > <> It would be nice...part two of the question would be: will NetBSD support the onboard DSSI controller on the KA640? Then I'll have to find a way to mount a bunch of RF-series drives, since the chassis has all 3 internal drive bays fillld.... Stan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 9 12:25:05 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905090217.WAA13639@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 8, 99 10:18:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4259 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990509/2bd7f0be/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 9 12:37:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive In-Reply-To: from "Mark" at May 9, 99 05:25:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1114 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990509/aca93bf7/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun May 9 17:17:12 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: HP keyboards Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990509171712.22c798e6@intellistar.net> One of the other list members asked me which HP keyboards he should pick up while surplus scrounging. That has started me on a long delayed project to make a list of HP keyboards and the system that they go to. I've started a list and posted it at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/keyboard.txt". If anyone has any additional part numbers or comments please send them to me and I'll post them. Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Sun May 9 18:06:04 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DS In-Reply-To: <3734FFDB.4369CC2B@storm.ca> (message from Stan Pietkiewicz on Sat, 08 May 1999 23:24:12 -0400) References: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <3734FFDB.4369CC2B@storm.ca> Message-ID: <19990509230604.1790.qmail@brouhaha.com> > If I remember correctly, NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives.. ;-{( Doesn't NetBSD support other MSCP disk drives? I thought the KQSFA looked to the software like just any other MSCP controller. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun May 9 18:17:43 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply References: <3.0.1.16.19990509171712.22c798e6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <19990509231743.1844.qmail@brouhaha.com> The transformer in my IMSAI's power supply is not long for this world. Yesterday I discovered that even with only the CPU card, one memory card, and the front panel installed, the transformer got *very* hot in just a few minutes, and started emitting unpleasant smells. Is there any suitable replacement that is still manufactured? Or, failing that, does anyone have a spare for sale? If all else fails, I suppose I could install some VICOR switching power supply modules. It looks like a VI-HAM input module would be required, along with a pair of VI-263-EU modules to provide +/-18V at 8.3A, and a VI-26M-EU with a VI-B6M-EU to provide +8V at 40A. This would have the advantage of autoranging power-factor-corrected input, reduced heat dissipation, and the front panel switch could be used as a low-voltage control to the switchers rather than having live AC present. On the down side, it wouldn't be particularly historic, and it would be extremely expensive. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 9 18:32:56 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: <19990509231743.1844.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at May 9, 99 11:17:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 919 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/9551fe17/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Sun May 9 18:50:44 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990509235044.2050.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony replied to my IMSAI power supply woes: > Pull out all the boards and disconnect the rectifiers from the > secondaries. Does the transformer still get hot? A shorted diode or > smoothing capacitor will make the transformer overheat... The DC voltages were OK, which I assume means that the diodes, caps, and regulators are OK. But next time I have the thing on my workbench I'll check it. > What are the ratings? Could you replace it with 2 transformers (one for > the 16V rails, one for the 8V)? Can you rewind the old one (it's not that > hard to do)? I don't know about the transformer's ratings, as they aren't printed on it or in the docs. The primary has taps for 10% overvoltage and undervoltage. The supply outputs are rated for +8V at 28A (ripple valley to 7.5V) and +/-18V at 4.5A each (ripple valley to 13.5V). > It's probably easier to rewind the transformer than replace it with > SMPSUs. I've never rewound a transfomer, but SMPSUs are pretty easy. If I have to replace the transformer with two or three new ones, the historical authenticity of the power supply is already shot, so I might as well replace the whole thing. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 9 19:12:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: <19990509235044.2050.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at May 9, 99 11:50:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2302 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/883763f3/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Sun May 9 19:24:24 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We actually have 3 of the wee beasties, one badged Heath, one badged Zenith, and one badged Heathkit. On Sun, 9 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I picked up a Zenith Data Systems all-in-one box from the trash a few days > > ago. Lovely cosmetic condition. Unfortunately there's no response on the > > monitor. The fan spins up so it is getting power. Other than the Heath address > > on the back it has no model #. It looks like the pictures I have seen of the > > Z-100. Do the first models of Z-100 have a model # on them ? > > It has a siemens fdd and a really nice FD image decal labelled Xidex. The rear > > sockets are labelled DCE and DTE , connected to a serial I/O daughter card, > > FR-1 a 34 pin socket FR-2 a40 pin which are connected to a Disk Interface > > daughter card and the fdd has a daughter card Disk I/O and a free hanging > > connector for an external floppy. The serial I/O is hard wired to another card > > labelled Albrektson Sound/Clock H-89 which has a lead to an external RCA > > connector Cassette I/O as well as a battery pak and a mini-speaker. > > There is a video card on the bottom. The vertical mounted motherboard has pins > > for 5 daughter cards and a Z-80 CPU. There's 48 k mem and an additional 16 k > > daughter card. > > Another card the same dimension is mounted behind the MB and is labelled > > Terminal Logic. It also has a Z-80 as well as a Motorola 6845L chip. > > Any Z-100 people out there ? > > This sounds like an H/Z 88/89/90. Not all of those combinations existed, > but the basic differences are that H* are heathkits (and came as kits) > and Z* are Zenith (and came assembled). IIRC the 88 is a cassette-based > machine, the 89 and 90 are both disk based. There's probably some > difference in the disk controller or standard memory between the 89 and > 90. But basically they're all the same machine and can be interconverted. > > I have the hardware manual for my Z90 system here, and it's roughly as > you describe it. With the cover open, there's the 'terminal logic board' > at the back. This is the board from a Z19, BTW, and is what it says it > is. A terminal that communicates via an RS232 link to the rest of the > machine. All video comes from that board. > > In front of that, and parallel to it, is the main CPU board. It contains > a Z80 + monitor/boot ROMs + 48K RAM + logic. Plugged into that on the > left side (furthest from the disk drive) is a little card with an extra > 16K of RAM on it (it also is connected to one of the RAM sockets on the > CPU board). On the right side of the CPU board are connectors for up to 3 > expansion cards. The middle one is normally a triple serial port (using > 8250 chips) for the 3 RS232 connectors on the back. The other 2 are disk > controllers (I have both the hard and soft sectored disk controller in my > machine). > > Flat in the bottom of the machine, under the CRT, is the video monitor > analogue board. There's a little board on top of this, under the CRT > neck, that carries the video amplfier. > > The PSU is on a heatsink bracket behind the drive. But the terminal logic > board has its own voltage regulators. > > The terminal logic board/monitor can work without the rest of the machine > being operational, BTW. > > I'd start with the PSU. The fan runs off the mains side of the > transformer, so the fact that it's turning doesn't mean the PSU is > working, unfortunately. Any beeps at swtich-on? There's a speaker run > from the terminal logic board (unless the wiring has been changed for the > sound card you have - if so, reconnect it to P402 (2 pin connector on the > bottom edge of the terminal logic board for the moment). > > Here are some voltage testpoints (WRT ground = black wire) : > > Floppy disk power red wire : +5V > Ditto orange wire : +12V > > P516 (4 pin to CPU board with 3 wires going to it) red wire (3) : +5V > Ditto orange wire (1) : +18V (approx) > > P514 (10 pin from PSU to CPU board) : > Green (1) : -18V (approx) > Orange (3) : +18V (approx) > Red (6) : +8.5V (approx) > > Across C1 (large electrolytic on main chassis under drive) : 65V > > > I guess the question is do I try and ressurect it ? It has such a nice-looking > > KB and is in such good cosmetic shape that it would hurt to junk it. > > It's quite a nice CP/M or HDOS machine... > > If it is a Z90-a-like, I have schematics for the main machine, Z17 and > Z37 disk controllers, RAM card and drive. And ROM listings for the > machine and terminal logic PCB. > > -tony > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 9 20:09:26 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives In-Reply-To: Stan Pietkiewicz "Re: Mystery board and drives" (May 9, 16:40) References: <373503F5.25419181@storm.ca> <9905091158.ZM7557@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <9905100209.ZM9784@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 9, 16:40, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > They are indeed 2 * 50 pin headers, with a 4 position switch between them... > Another reply suggests it would be Unibus... When I have time, I'll dig out my TC02 manual -- I guess the switches will be similar. I'm still of the opnion this TU03 is Q-bus. Does it have an empty DIL socket near one of the edge connectors? Does it have a couple of other switch packs? (I'm wondering how much like my TC02 it is.) > I'm not planning on plugging it into my MicroVAX 3600 until I know for sure.... Probably wise :-) > > 975002 looks like an IPI or SMD drive number, but it doesn't quite match > > any in my lists. Are there any other numbers? What kind of connectors are > > on it? > > The interface connectors are a 50 pin ribbon connector. Other numbers... none > that I found... > Another message suggests that they are IPI-2... Sorry, I can't be any more help with these. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From aknight at mindspring.com Sun May 9 22:06:49 1999 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: Univac stuff available In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990430161530.007a6100@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990509230649.00862660@pop.cphl.mindspring.com> Hi, For those of ya'll out there into the really big iron, I have a few pieces of Univac stuff available: First is a complete Univac model 1710 key punch machine, including a manual with schematics etc. I do not know if it actually works, and would recommend it be checked out before powering up as it has several motors in it. This is way too large to ship, though, so if you're interested you would need to pick it up at my house in central NC. I can provide digital images of the unit upon request. Second is a Sperry Univac punched card reader. This is a desktop-unit, (20"x15"x12") so should be UPS shippable. I don't have any docs. on it. or any cabling (it has a "big green connector" on the back). I've taken digital images already and can provide them upon request. Third is a Sperry Univac CRT terminal, if there's any interest in something like this let me know and I'll get more info. on it. Fourth is a keyboard from a Univac key punch machine (probably either a 1610 or 1710). I didn't "trophy" this myself (as per earlier discussion), the rest of the machine was already gone. Still, it may be an interesting relic for those of you who are interested in 1960's computer stuff. Those of you who've seen my previous postings know I'm primarily interested in very early electronic calculator and certain early microcomputer stuff. I have a "want" list on my web page, and would consider trades for some of the items on my list. Recognizing that not everybody has a stash of old calculators, I'd consider monetary offers as well, but, please, from the U.S. only. Thanks, Alex Knight Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun May 9 19:55:43 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:56 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: References: <19990509231743.1844.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990509195543.18c77ab4@earthlink.net> At 12:32 AM 5/10/99 +0100, Tony wrote: >> >>Eric wrote: >> The transformer in my IMSAI's power supply is not long for this world. >> Yesterday I discovered that even with only the CPU card, one memory card, >> and the front panel installed, the transformer got *very* hot in just a few >> minutes, and started emitting unpleasant smells. > >Pull out all the boards and disconnect the rectifiers from the >secondaries. Does the transformer still get hot? A shorted diode or >smoothing capacitor will make the transformer overheat... > >Assuming it still gets hot, it sounds like you have shorted turns :-( > >> >> Is there any suitable replacement that is still manufactured? Or, failing >> that, does anyone have a spare for sale? > >What are the ratings? Could you replace it with 2 transformers (one for >the 16V rails, one for the 8V)? Can you rewind the old one (it's not that >hard to do)? > >It's probably easier to rewind the transformer than replace it with >SMPSUs. > Yes. What are the dimensions of the core? The longest dimension (length usually), and the thickness. The height should be 5/6 of the length. Hopefully the laminations are not welded together like microwave oven transformers. If the voltages checked out without a load, look for a very good short somewhere. The 5 Amp line fuse didn't blow? -Dave From eric at brouhaha.com Mon May 10 02:55:51 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990510075551.3445.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony replies again about my IMSAI power suppy woes: > No, I disagree. Putting an SMPSU in place of the transformer is totally > changing the design. If you use 2 or more mains-frequency traansformers, > the PSU is electically identical at the end, which IMHO is more > authentic. My point was that I can make a drop-in replacement for the original PSU, so that it can trivially be restored to the original configuration. Certainly I wouldn't throw the old PSU away. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon May 10 03:02:57 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990509195543.18c77ab4@earthlink.net> (message from Dave Dameron on Sun, 09 May 1999 19:55:43) References: <19990509231743.1844.qmail@brouhaha.com> <3.0.6.16.19990509195543.18c77ab4@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <19990510080257.3479.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dave Dameron replied about my IMSAI PSU woes: > If the voltages checked out without a load, look for a very > good short somewhere. The incoming AC was measured at 120.0 VAC. The primary has taps for nominal, -10%, and +10% input. When I received it, it was apparently set for -10%. I say apparently because the transformer doesn't match the one in the IMSAI manual. The no-load DC voltages are expected to run high, but these were even higher: 25V vs. 18V, 11V vs. 8V. I switched it to the +10% tap, and now under some load (CPU, one memory card, front panel) the DC voltages are very close to the nominal values. So I suppose this could be indicative of shorted turns in the primary. > The 5 Amp line fuse didn't blow? Nope. But the transformer emitted a foul stench after a few minutes. It wasn't hot enough to be painful to touch, but it was close. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon May 10 06:31:01 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Commodore wrist watches Message-ID: I just found this in newsgroup comp.sys.amiga.misc. Respond to the original sender, not to me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject : Commodore wrist watches Date : Sun, 09 May 1999 21:40:45 -0400 From: Stephanie Chorny The Toronto PET Users Group has the opportunity of acquiring a quantity of Commandeer wrist watches (circa 1980 I believe)- these are new in the original packaging. TPUG wishes to make these historic items available to the Commodore community at a reasonable price (and hopefully not at a loss!). The purchase price has not yet been determined and the purpose of this communication is to find out: a) is there an interest on your part in obtaining this watch? b) approximately - what is the going price OR what would you pay for a 'mint' Commodore wristwatch? If you could provide a response to these questions, TPUG will be able to see if it will be financially feasible to proceed with this acquisition. I hope many of you will be able to help TPUG in this decision making process. Please reply in this newsgroup or directly to me at chorny@ilap.com. Thanks, Ernie Chorny, TPUG Board of Directors ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From Jgzabol at aol.com Mon May 10 06:09:19 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: manuals available Message-ID: <3e7ef080.2468185f@aol.com> Hi Lawrence, I would like to have one of the CDC Sabre disk drive manuals. My Bull (Honeywell) machine has some of these, I believe, or at least rather similar drives. I could either pick it up mid-June, or else if you would send it my address is John G. Zabolitzky Muxelst. 4 81479 Munich Germany Of course I am happy to pick up any cost and effort involved! Regards John From cfandt at netsync.net Mon May 10 08:06:22 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905090217.WAA13639@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990510085259.00a8e710@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:18 PM 5/8/99 +0000, Lawrence Walker said something like: > I picked up a Zenith Data Systems all-in-one box from the trash a few days >ago. Lovely cosmetic condition. Unfortunately there's no response on the >monitor. The fan spins up so it is getting power. Other than the Heath address >on the back it has no model #. It looks like the pictures I have seen of the >Z-100. Do the first models of Z-100 have a model # on them ? > It has a siemens fdd and a really nice FD image decal labelled Xidex. The rear >sockets are labelled DCE and DTE , connected to a serial I/O daughter card, >FR-1 a 34 pin socket FR-2 a40 pin which are connected to a Disk Interface >daughter card and the fdd has a daughter card Disk I/O and a free hanging >connector for an external floppy. The serial I/O is hard wired to another card >labelled Albrektson Sound/Clock H-89 which has a lead to an external RCA >connector Cassette I/O as well as a battery pak and a mini-speaker. > There is a video card on the bottom. The vertical mounted motherboard has >pins >for 5 daughter cards and a Z-80 CPU. There's 48 k mem and an additional 16 k >daughter card. > Another card the same dimension is mounted behind the MB and is labelled >Terminal Logic. It also has a Z-80 as well as a Motorola 6845L chip. > Any Z-100 people out there ? Hi Larry, Yes, I am, but as I indicated in the revised subject line above, your machine is an H/Z-89. It predates any Z100's by several years. The words "Albrektson Sound/Clock H-89" and the comments " > There is a video card on the bottom. The vertical mounted motherboard has pins for 5 daughter cards and a Z-80 CPU." certainly proves that it's H89! First thing is to see if the built-in video terminal works and go from there. There is a simple cable running between the Terminal Logic Board and the CPU Board which carries the RS-232 signal for communication. All my H/Z89 docs are buried somewhare in this danged house as we've recently moved. No time to sort and catagorize many things yet. It's gridlock almost like the old house was :( Knowing our resident archivist, Tony Duell, I bet he will have docs in his collection and could take it from here. If he by chance doesn't have the docs at hand, either someone else here could jump in or I could excavate this house and find them within several days or less. Let us know. Good luck with your find! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Mon May 10 08:22:17 1999 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen Message-ID: <008401be9ae8$20c00d60$1b3bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> I've been playing with a HP 150 recently. Do any of you physicists out there know how the touch screen works? The electronics for it surround the screen but don't seem to contact it. Some sort of static electricity capacitive effect on one's finger? I'm also having a lot of trouble making images of the disks that came with it. Teledisk doesn't seem to be able to handle the format. Any clues? Hans Olminkhof From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon May 10 08:37:08 1999 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: B020 Transputer Graphics Board info References: Message-ID: <3736E104.3F4AFAF6@olf.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > The B020 that I have has two connectors on it. One, I am assuming is the > > 15-pin VGA connector. There is also another connector which looks like a > > 9-pin EGA connector. Is this correct? How do you connect the B020 to the > > IIRC (and I still can't find my prints for it), the 15 pin connector is > VGA out (to a monitor) and the 9 pin one is analogue (VGA) video _in_. > The thing can switch the monitor between its own video and the external input > > > B008 to make one network instead of two. I will be getting all the support > > Hang on, I've thought where I put those diagrams... Here we are ... They > don't quite match my PCB, but they're a good start. > > You were asking about SIMMs. You can use 256K*8 or 1M*8 ones. Fit J3 for > 1M ones, J4 for 256K ones. These links are near the lower edge of the > board and are labelled in the silk-screen. > > OK, there's a CO12 link adapter on the board. It's link can be switched > in software either to the on-board T4 (link 0) or to the TRAM sockets. > The TRAM also talks to the other 3 links of the T4 on-board. > > There's also an optional 8-pin mini-DIN on the rear edge of the card. The > pinout seems to be : > > 1 Error/ (in) > 2 Analyse (out) > 3 Tram2 Link 2 out > 4 Ground > 5 Tram2 Link 2 in > 6 T425 link1 out > 7 Reset (out) > 8 T425 link 1 in > > You should be able to link other transputers to it. > Apparently, the B020 I have doesn't have an 8-pin miniDIN. I guess it suppose to be between the 15-pin VGA connector and the 9-pin VGA internal connector. Geez, that really bites. Oh well, I tried connecting four size 1 trams to the B020 tram slots, but it apparently only sees the first and second tram slots. The third and the fourth are not recognized. Do you know why that would happen?? Maybe a jumper problem??? Stacking trams is a really neat why to fully populate the motherboard. I didn't know you could do that. Well, I now just need the jumper pins (I got a few, but not enough). Does the jumperpins go to both the top (1 to 8) and bottom (9 to 16) pins of the tram slot, or only to pin 1 to 8. The only problem with stacking trams is you can not put another card next to the B008. It is pretty fat and occupys the ajacent ISA slot on the PC. Ram PS: For you transputer fans, Eonic Systems released for FREE, their real-time kernel, virtuoso, for the transputer (NON-COMMERCIAL USE ONLY). Download the manual and software from my webpage at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1190. -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 10 09:53:17 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive Message-ID: <000801be9af4$d6d47c60$0100c0a8@fuj03> Careful with that grease! Vaseline is likely to make some plastic alloys soft, as it contains solvents for some of them. The clear grease most often used in lubricating plastic gears, bushings, etc, is called "lithium grease" and is available at most wholesale outlets which sell screws, nuts, bolts, etc. by the box. I have, by the way, found that a box of 100 of some of the more common screws found in electronics is a really worthwhile investment and saves money in the long run. This is especially true of metric sizes. Here in Denver, it's the rule rather than the exception that hardware and car parts stores sell both metric nuts and bolts, yet it's unusual to have bolts and nuts of the same size as marked on the blister pack actually fit. I don't know why this is, but it's a real pain in the gluteus maximus! I've never had this result at Fasteners Inc. I guess that's why I'd rather buy the small stuff by the box there rather than the handful at the hardware store. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive >> >> Hi, >> >> On Fri, 7 May 1999 Tony Duell wrote: >> > Take off the spring. I believe that you can normally take the collet >> > apart further, but this isn't in the manual. Apply a smear of grease >> > (either plastic grease or vaseline) to the spindle and reassemble. Put >> > the spring on with the smaller end against the collet. >> >> Tried doing that, and it didn't help. It turns out that the C-clip was >> vibrating, causing the noise; I should probably have figured that out sooner. >> Putting some grease in the groove that the clip fits into solved the problem. I > >The C-clip should be a tight fit on the spindle. If it can move relative >to the spindle, then it's too loose. It might be worth taking it off and >either replacing it or squeezing it slightly. > >> guess using a hot-melt glue gun would do the job too. (Maybe this info will be > >I am strongly of the opinion that if something is assembled with glue >then it was designed incorrectly :-). And I would certainly never put >glue on something that I might want to take apart later. > >> of use to someone in future?) >> >> >> -- Mark >> >> > >-tony > From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 10 09:59:33 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply Message-ID: <001901be9af5$b76272a0$0100c0a8@fuj03> What are the physical dimensions of this transformer, Eric? I've been rooting around in that portion of the basement which has such things. Perhaps I have a potential drop-in replacement. I know I still have a couple of the transformmers from the ALTAIR, though I don't know which one. You may recall I bought a load of a couple of hundred back in the late '70's. I've got a number of different transformers that might serve. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 2:14 AM Subject: Re: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply >Dave Dameron replied about my IMSAI PSU woes: >> If the voltages checked out without a load, look for a very >> good short somewhere. > >The incoming AC was measured at 120.0 VAC. The primary has taps for >nominal, -10%, and +10% input. When I received it, it was apparently set >for -10%. I say apparently because the transformer doesn't match the one >in the IMSAI manual. The no-load DC voltages are expected to run high, but >these were even higher: 25V vs. 18V, 11V vs. 8V. I switched it to the +10% >tap, and now under some load (CPU, one memory card, front panel) the DC >voltages are very close to the nominal values. So I suppose this could be >indicative of shorted turns in the primary. > >> The 5 Amp line fuse didn't blow? > >Nope. But the transformer emitted a foul stench after a few minutes. It >wasn't hot enough to be painful to touch, but it was close. From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 10 10:51:07 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: TI Calculators, anyone? Message-ID: <003b01be9afc$eb3afbe0$0100c0a8@fuj03> I've been sifting through the "heap" some more and find I have a couple of the TI calculators, a '58 and a '59 and a Printer for these two. Does this sort of thing interest anyone? I bought these when they were the best TI had to offer, but don't use them much because there's only one functional (sort-of) battery pack between them. If you're willing to spring in advance for shipping and maybe some packaging material, they're yours. Dick From allisonp at world.std.com Mon May 10 10:59:11 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: <001901be9af5$b76272a0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: > >Nope. But the transformer emitted a foul stench after a few minutes. It > >wasn't hot enough to be painful to touch, but it was close. A good replacement would be found as a transformer used in an TEI, Intergrand or Compuporo box. They will be of the right size, power and configuration or very close. Allison > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon May 10 11:24:44 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905090217.WAA13639@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 May 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I picked up a Zenith Data Systems all-in-one box from the trash a few days > ago. Lovely cosmetic condition. Unfortunately there's no response on the > monitor. The fan spins up so it is getting power. Other than the Heath address > on the back it has no model #. It looks like the pictures I have seen of the > Z-100. Do the first models of Z-100 have a model # on them ? From ss at allegro.com Mon May 10 12:05:31 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen In-Reply-To: <008401be9ae8$20c00d60$1b3bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Message-ID: <199905101705.KAA29246@bart.allegro.com> Re: > I've been playing with a HP 150 recently. Do any of you physicists out there > know how the touch screen works? The electronics for it surround the screen > but don't seem to contact it. Some sort of static electricity capacitive > effect on one's finger? Infrared beams...at least for the HP 150 A and B. The first two models had visible holes where dust could get in and obscure the IR LEDs. Later, HP added an IR-transparent bezel over them to avoid that problem. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon May 10 12:12:16 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > >Nope. But the transformer emitted a foul stench after a few minutes. It > > >wasn't hot enough to be painful to touch, but it was close. > > A good replacement would be found as a transformer used in an TEI, > Intergrand or Compuporo box. They will be of the right size, power and > configuration or very close. I'd watch out for the TEI units... As I recall they used a ferro-resonant transformer which can offer some rude surprises if not handled carefully. The CompuPro boxes (later ones at least) did the same I believe, but I'd have to pull the top off of one of mine to verify. It would be a workable solution, if not historically accurate. B^} -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From ddameron at earthlink.net Mon May 10 09:14:27 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: <19990510080257.3479.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.6.16.19990509195543.18c77ab4@earthlink.net> <19990509231743.1844.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990510091427.236f3af4@earthlink.net> At 08:02 AM 5/10/99 -0000, you wrote: >Dave Dameron replied about my IMSAI PSU woes: >> If the voltages checked out without a load, look for a very >> good short somewhere. > >The incoming AC was measured at 120.0 VAC. The primary has taps for >nominal, -10%, and +10% input. When I received it, it was apparently set >for -10%. I say apparently because the transformer doesn't match the one >in the IMSAI manual. The no-load DC voltages are expected to run high, but >these were even higher: 25V vs. 18V, 11V vs. 8V. I switched it to the +10% >tap, and now under some load (CPU, one memory card, front panel) the DC >voltages are very close to the nominal values. So I suppose this could be >indicative of shorted turns in the primary. It doesn't sound like it, a shorted turn would have a large effect with any primary tap, even with no load. Yes, the +10% tap is good, if you run the 120 +10% tap from the 120Volt line, you will get about-10% output voltages, OK unless you have a fully loaded system. I routinely use a large 24 Volt CT transformer as a "buck" transformer to get 120-12Volts and 120-24Volts. for linear power supplies. Primary: (COC.= winding) +10% -C|| nom. -O|| -10% -C||Secondary windings here O|| C|| neut -O|| -Dave From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon May 10 12:49:08 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen Message-ID: <19990510174908.16052.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- ss@allegro.com wrote: > > Re: > > > I've been playing with a HP 150 recently. Do any of you physicists out > > there know how the touch screen works? > > Infrared beams...at least for the HP 150 A and B. > > The first two models had visible holes where dust could get in and obscure > the IR LEDs. Later, HP added an IR-transparent bezel over them to avoid > that problem. Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware, not the CPU or monitor. I picked it up at the Dayton Hamfest a couple of years ago because it looked neat. Is there enough information out there to attempt to interface one of these units to another kind of computer? There is a ribbon cable with fifteen to twenty wires coming off of one side. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Mon May 10 13:04:02 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: <19990510080257.3479.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 10 May 1999, Eric Smith wrote: Eric, > Nope. But the transformer emitted a foul stench after a few minutes. It > wasn't hot enough to be painful to touch, but it was close. Should you determine that you want to replace the transformer, I have one here removed from an S-100 box long ago. - don From donm at cts.com Mon May 10 13:17:14 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen In-Reply-To: <008401be9ae8$20c00d60$1b3bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 1999, Olminkhof wrote: > I've been playing with a HP 150 recently. Do any of you physicists out there > know how the touch screen works? The electronics for it surround the screen > but don't seem to contact it. Some sort of static electricity capacitive > effect on one's finger? > > I'm also having a lot of trouble making images of the disks that came with > it. Teledisk doesn't seem to be able to handle the format. Any clues? Hans, that format should pose no problems to TeleDisk. Are you able to make an image of a 360k DOS disk? If so, you should be able to do the HP. - don From elvey at hal.com Mon May 10 13:19:30 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990509195543.18c77ab4@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199905101819.LAA23466@civic.hal.com> Dave Dameron wrote: > >It's probably easier to rewind the transformer than replace it with > >SMPSUs. > > > Yes. > What are the dimensions of the core? The longest dimension (length > usually), and the thickness. The height should be 5/6 of the length. > Hopefully the laminations are not welded together like microwave oven > transformers. If the voltages checked out without a load, look for a very > good short somewhere. > The 5 Amp line fuse didn't blow? > > -Dave Hi All I was there and yes, the fuse didn't blow yet? When Eric first came in, he was complaining of too high of a output voltage. I should have recognized this symptom right off the bat. This is a definite indication that the primary is failing some place. When you have shorted turns, it increases the turns ratio, causing higher output voltage ( his first symptom). I doubt it is a rectifier short, these usually smoke quite a bit when they fail because the current is concentrated in one place. Nothing else was particularly hot. Eric, you might try seeing if these guys have a transformer laying around: http://www.imsai.net/ Dwight From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 10 14:20:06 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DS References: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <3734FFDB.4369CC2B@storm.ca> <19990509230604.1790.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <37373166.B937B890@mcmanis.com> Yup, NetBSD noticed the controller and got the drive ID from it (RF71) it was only when it talked to it that the drive complained. I'm guessing that the drives may not be formatted (it would make sense). Another question is that the drives plug into the uVAX "ready/fault/writeprotect" thingy that sits on the front of the box. Do they have to? I'm wondering because it is a royal pain to work on these things inside the vaxserver chassis (BA213) but if I could set them out and on top it would be easier to see what's going on. --Chuck So does anyone have a spare DSSI terminator? --Chuck Eric Smith wrote: > > If I remember correctly, NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives.. ;-{( > > Doesn't NetBSD support other MSCP disk drives? I thought the KQSFA looked > to the software like just any other MSCP controller. From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon May 10 14:40:57 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive In-Reply-To: <000801be9af4$d6d47c60$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: >I have, by the way, found that a box of 100 of some of the more common >screws found in electronics is a really worthwhile investment and saves Buy some junk systems, parts etc. and take them all apart saving the screws, and I would not even slow down at 100, maybe around 3,000. ;) The floppy drive in the subject line makes a good screw donor too. From arfonrg at texas.net Mon May 10 15:26:37 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: References: <000201be990a$eb816100$3cb620d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990510152637.009a9d70@207.207.0.212> Answer me this.... My old laptop has three contacts that touch the battery... One negative, one positive and..... ??a sense?? I need to construct a NiCad pack and I do not know what to do with the third pin. How do I connect it? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From bill at chipware.com Mon May 10 15:28:38 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Interesting Ohio Scientific Information Message-ID: <000201be9b23$af908fc0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> Thought those on the list that are interested in OSI might want to see this. From an OSI engineer who still wishes to remain anonymous: > Hi Bill, > I haven't forgot you, just got around to pulling box > out of storage. > The plastic cases are C1P Series 2. I ran across a > usage report dated 11/24/1980 that indicates we had > plastic shells in stock then. Those plus what we had > on order at that date was for about 1000 units. Average > weekly usage on the report was 28.5 units. I don't have > any more specific figures than that. I know we shipped > C1P Series 2 units, but I have no idea of the total. ... > If you're not aware of it, the C1P plastic cases were > simply top and bottom shells that attached to a C4P metal > case. The C4P case used the same metal, but had the walnut > sides. There were metal case C1Ps before that. From the > literature I have, it appears the metal case C1P shipped > about August of 1978. An October 1, 1979 sales > information release still showed the metal cased C1P. ... > The same 11/24/1980 usage report shows 4 560ZB PC boards > in stock with none on order and average weekly usage zero. > My guess is that these are the remainder of a run of 5 or 10. > They are very rare. I believe I saw a board once. I never saw > one operating. I did not design it. The 560Z was a redesign > of the earlier 460Z that I don't think I ever saw. The 560Z > board ran the Z80 and Intersil 6100 micros. I have a 560Z > schematic dated August 1977 with status indicated as > "Production". The 460Z is in a March 1976 price list and > appears to only have supported the Intersil 6100. Both boards > require a OSI 6502 based CPU board as a host. I started at OSI > November 1977. The 560Z board appears to be the last board > designed before I became Chief Engineer. I ran across some > technical information that because of PDP8 unique IO micro > code, that you could not simply run PDP8 code on it. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 10 16:36:40 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen In-Reply-To: <19990510174908.16052.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990510163640.3c7f398e@intellistar.net> At 10:49 AM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >--- ss@allegro.com wrote: >> >> Re: >> >> > I've been playing with a HP 150 recently. Do any of you physicists out >> > there know how the touch screen works? >> >> Infrared beams...at least for the HP 150 A and B. >> >> The first two models had visible holes where dust could get in and obscure >> the IR LEDs. Later, HP added an IR-transparent bezel over them to avoid >> that problem. > >Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware, not the CPU or monitor. >I picked it up at the Dayton Hamfest a couple of years ago because it looked >neat. > >Is there enough information out there to attempt to interface one of these >units to another kind of computer? There is a ribbon cable with fifteen >to twenty wires coming off of one side. Sounds like you got one touch screen parts for the later TouchScreen II computer. It was an option on that computer and some terminals. It was built into the HP 150. I THINK that all you have is a bezel with two rows of LED IR emitters and two rows of photo receptors. All you had to do to install it on the TS II was to pop out the old bezel, plug in the cable and snap this bezel in place. Joe > >-ethan > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 10 16:56:08 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: manuals available In-Reply-To: <002001be999c$3f4fe0e0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990510165608.3e171e2a@intellistar.net> Richard, I have a couple of old Intersil Evaluation kits and the manuals list all of the devices available in 1981 but don't list a 7228. Are you sure it's not a 7226? or else it's newer than 1981. Joe At 03:46 PM 5/8/99 -0600, you wrote: >I've run into Intersil's ICM7228 once again and find my data book doesn't >cover that number. It's date coded '87, so It's probably in the last book I >got from Intersil before they were acquired by GE. > >Has anyone got a complete sheet on this part? I believe it is a >multi-decade counter/display driver, or maybe just a display driver. > >thanx > >Dick > > From elvey at hal.com Mon May 10 16:00:05 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Laptop batteries In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990510152637.009a9d70@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <199905102100.OAA23497@civic.hal.com> Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > Answer me this.... My old laptop has three contacts that touch the > battery... One negative, one positive and..... ??a sense?? I need to > construct a NiCad pack and I do not know what to do with the third pin. > How do I connect it? Hi Most battery pack third wires are for a thermistor or temperature switch. The most used thermistor is the 10K size. You should be able to measure this with a meter. If it is a switch type, it may be harder to figure out. Measure between the leads for voltage. Find the leads that don't show any voltage difference. Measure these leads with an Ohm meter. Don't put an Ohm meter on leads with voltage across them. Dwight From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon May 10 16:08:50 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen Message-ID: <19990510210850.3849.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> --- Joe wrote: First, I wrote: > >Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware, not the CPU or monitor. > >I picked it up at the Dayton Hamfest a couple of years ago because it looked > >neat. > Sounds like you got one touch screen parts for the later TouchScreen II > computer. It was an option on that computer and some terminals. It was > built into the HP 150. Ah. Got it. > I THINK that all you have is a bezel with two rows of LED IR emitters > and two rows of photo receptors. That's the one! > All you had to do to install it on the TS II was to pop out the old > bezel, plug in the cable and snap this bezel in place. Are there any specs out there for the TS II that might be useful in attempting to interface one to a different kind of computer? Thanks, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From elvey at hal.com Mon May 10 16:13:02 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990510085259.00a8e710@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <199905102113.OAA23504@civic.hal.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > Hi Larry, > > Yes, I am, but as I indicated in the revised subject line above, your > machine is an H/Z-89. It predates any Z100's by several years. The words > "Albrektson Sound/Clock H-89" and the comments " > There is a video card on > the bottom. The vertical mounted motherboard has pins for 5 daughter cards > and a Z-80 CPU." certainly proves that it's H89! > > First thing is to see if the built-in video terminal works and go from > there. There is a simple cable running between the Terminal Logic Board and > the CPU Board which carries the RS-232 signal for communication. All my > H/Z89 docs are buried somewhare in this danged house as we've recently > moved. No time to sort and catagorize many things yet. It's gridlock almost > like the old house was :( Knowing our resident archivist, Tony Duell, I > bet he will have docs in his collection and could take it from here. If he > by chance doesn't have the docs at hand, either someone else here could > jump in or I could excavate this house and find them within several days or > less. Let us know. Good luck with your find! Hi Larry As Chris said, it is surely a H89. I built the one I have, way back when. I should also have docs someplace. You might look to see if it has soft sectored controller or hard. You can tell because the controller board of the hard sectored had a UART, as I recall, instead of one of the more standard FD- controller chips, like the soft sectored board had. The video part was actually a H19 terminal, hard wire to the processor board. This means, you should be able to run the video part as a serial terminal and the processor part with another terminal. This will help you figure out what is failing. Again, I or someone else will have to find the pinout for the molex connector and baud rate of the video part. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 12:42:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: <19990510080257.3479.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at May 10, 99 08:02:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1074 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/35497efe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 13:06:40 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990510085259.00a8e710@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 10, 99 09:06:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2247 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/123d7bd7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 13:35:13 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive In-Reply-To: <000801be9af4$d6d47c60$0100c0a8@fuj03> from "Richard Erlacher" at May 10, 99 08:53:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2688 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/923bf3f9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 13:09:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen In-Reply-To: <008401be9ae8$20c00d60$1b3bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> from "Olminkhof" at May 10, 99 11:22:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 939 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/bed43cf3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 13:14:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: B020 Transputer Graphics Board info In-Reply-To: <3736E104.3F4AFAF6@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at May 10, 99 09:37:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/96952e27/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 13:40:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 10, 99 09:24:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/8a86ee87/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 10 16:58:41 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: replacement transformer wanted for IMSAI power supply In-Reply-To: References: <001901be9af5$b76272a0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990510165841.1e0f0866@intellistar.net> I know where there's a empty Compupro box in a scrap yard. Let me know if you want me to see about grabbing it for the transformer. Joe At 11:59 AM 5/10/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >Nope. But the transformer emitted a foul stench after a few minutes. It >> >wasn't hot enough to be painful to touch, but it was close. > >A good replacement would be found as a transformer used in an TEI, >Intergrand or Compuporo box. They will be of the right size, power and >configuration or very close. > >Allison > > >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 10 17:36:53 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Power PC???? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990510173653.1e0f2d1e@intellistar.net> Is anyone out there familar with the Motorola Power PCs? I spotted several today. A StarMax 4000/180, several that booted a said Power PC 604 and a Data Server 4000. Can anyone tell me more about these and what kind OS they run? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 10 17:40:43 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen In-Reply-To: <19990510210850.3849.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990510174043.56df023a@intellistar.net> At 02:08 PM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >--- Joe wrote: > >First, I wrote: >> >Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware, not the CPU or monitor. >> >I picked it up at the Dayton Hamfest a couple of years ago because it looked >> >neat. > >> Sounds like you got one touch screen parts for the later TouchScreen II >> computer. It was an option on that computer and some terminals. It was >> built into the HP 150. > >Ah. Got it. > >> I THINK that all you have is a bezel with two rows of LED IR emitters >> and two rows of photo receptors. > >That's the one! > >> All you had to do to install it on the TS II was to pop out the old >> bezel, plug in the cable and snap this bezel in place. > >Are there any specs out there for the TS II that might be useful in attempting >to interface one to a different kind of computer? No, I don't think so. I think I have a service manual for the TS II but I don't think it gives any details about the touch screen. I expect that you would have to at least write a device driver before you could add it to another computer. Joe > >Thanks, > >-ethan > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 16:54:22 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990510173653.1e0f2d1e@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at May 10, 99 05:36:53 pm Message-ID: <199905102154.OAA28774@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 588 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/06a047ee/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 10 19:04:06 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990510173653.1e0f2d1e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199905102205.AAA28936@horus.mch.sni.de> > Is anyone out there familar with the Motorola Power PCs? I spotted > several today. A StarMax 4000/180, several that booted a said Power PC 604 > and a Data Server 4000. Can anyone tell me more about these and what kind > OS they run? Just ordinary Mac clones - can / should Run Mac OS, althrough not powerful anymore (but depending on the exact board used possibly updatable to higher frequencies and/or newer CPUs (G3)). There is also a Linux for the PPC systems and some can run AIX. Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 16:48:36 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen In-Reply-To: <19990510174908.16052.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 10, 99 10:49:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/5b311f68/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 16:51:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 10, 99 12:40:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 591 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/274b2755/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 17:02:37 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905102113.OAA23504@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 10, 99 02:13:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/58aeaf49/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon May 10 17:32:15 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990510173653.1e0f2d1e@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at May 10, 99 05:36:53 pm Message-ID: <199905102232.PAA10512@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 736 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/479885e2/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Mon May 10 17:38:27 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905102238.PAA23543@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > UART, as I recall, instead of one of the more standard FD- > > Actually, it's a USRT chip (Universal Synchronous Receiver Transmitter). > A 2350 IIRC... Thanks Tony I couldn't remember what was there but did remember it was a serial chip and not a disk interface chip. --snip-- > > The video part was actually a H19 terminal, hard wire to > > Yes, a plain H19. You can actually connect one of the rear-panel > connectors to the Terminal Logic Board (Unplug one of the cables from the > 3-channel serial card and connect it to the terminal logic board in place > of the cable that goes to the CPU board. --snip-- > Press the 'Off Line' key > (latches down) to put the terminal section into 'local' mode if you want. > If the terminal logic board is working correctly, you should get a beep > at power-on and then a cursor in the top left of the screen (if you have > a working CPU board and the off line key isn't down at power-on, you get > 2 beeps, one from the terminal, one caused by the processor). > > The first thing should be to get the terminal working. Forget about the > CPU board, get the Z19 parts doing something. I'd forgotten about the Off Line key. Like Tony says, get the terminal part working first or did he say "They're Great!" ;) I don't remember the baud rate, that it was set for, but 9600 seems to stand out in my mind. Dwight From kees.stravers at iae.nl Mon May 10 18:13:14 1999 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives Message-ID: <19990510231314.35C932120C@iaehv.iae.nl> On Mon, 10 May 1999 01:09:26 GMT, pete@dunnington.u-net.com said: >On May 9, 16:40, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: >>They are indeed 2 * 50 pin headers, with a 4 position switch between them... >>Another reply suggests it would be Unibus... >When I have time, I'll dig out my TC02 manual -- I guess the switches will >be similar. I'm still of the opnion this TU03 is Q-bus. Does it have an >empty DIL socket near one of the edge connectors? Does it have a couple of >other switch packs? (I'm wondering how much like my TC02 it is.) How about you both compare your boards to mine? Maybe they look the same. http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/vfg/tc02.jpg Many new pictures available at the Visual Field Guide, also of non-DEC boards! http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/vfg/number.html Any machine readable copy of the TC02 (or any other Emulex Qbus board) manual available? I only have information on the QD21 and UC07/08 on my site. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ I'm Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - Visit VAXarchive! http://www.vaxarchive.org/ (primary) http://www.sevensages.org/vax/ (mirror) http://www.coyote.org/mirrors/vaxarchive/ (mirror) NetTamer 1.08.1 Registere From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 10 18:32:23 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905102238.PAA23543@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 10, 99 03:38:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1361 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/436dd7e1/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 10 19:27:54 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:57 2005 Subject: manuals available Message-ID: <003a01be9b45$1cdc4940$0100c0a8@fuj03> That's right. In fact, I have the '81 data book on the floor right here. The ICM7228 is apparently an 8-digit LED display multiplexer which was not available in '81. I was hoping it was a different part, more like the CMOS 4534, which is a counter-display-driver. In any case, the information I got from the Harris site and the Maxim site, per a referral from someone in this group, seems to correlate with my recollection, such as it is, of what these devices are. The 7226 is a 10 MHz frequency counter circuit with LED drivers built in. I once hooked up the part in a 9-digit application using a fast CMOS BCD counter as a prescaler rather than the ECL jewel they designed in their app-note. That makes it almost useful, as it then counts up to 100 MHz in several modes. Of course, you have to prescale both the inputs in order to make it work right, but it's a handy little tool if you package it right. That outrageously large board of Intersil's was pretty impractical except for the purpose for which it was intended, which was to demostrate how their porduct works. They didn't make it easy to up the count rate by a decade, nor did they make signal routing in and out very handy. The switches they used forced one to mount the board in a large box even though only a small area was needed for the display and switches. Their eval kit for the 7106 DPM was about as impractical. It got us to buy them, though, didn't it? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 3:02 PM Subject: Re: manuals available >Richard, > > I have a couple of old Intersil Evaluation kits and the manuals list all >of the devices available in 1981 but don't list a 7228. Are you sure it's >not a 7226? or else it's newer than 1981. > > Joe > >At 03:46 PM 5/8/99 -0600, you wrote: >>I've run into Intersil's ICM7228 once again and find my data book doesn't >>cover that number. It's date coded '87, so It's probably in the last book I >>got from Intersil before they were acquired by GE. >> >>Has anyone got a complete sheet on this part? I believe it is a >>multi-decade counter/display driver, or maybe just a display driver. >> >>thanx >> >>Dick >> >> > From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Mon May 10 19:28:33 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: *** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available *** Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990510172833.006b7904@mail.sfu.ca> Hi Gang: I'm on a semi-yearly business trip to Ottawa, Ontario. I stopped in this evening at the friendly local computer recycler. Looks like I might have hit a jackpot in regard to many pounds of old DEC cards. These are of the "Flip Chip" variety, and if I recollect correctly, they may be cards from a STRAIGHT 8!!!!! The machine is nowhere in sight, as they are a scrap metal place it was like chopped up over the last couple of weeks. Here is a list of the cards. Those in the know, can you advise me and others whether these are of interest. I had the owner put the box aside until I call him back. Total is about 30 pounds of cards. The list contains a sample only. There are, in some cases, 5-6 cards of each type. There are some Q bus and Unibus cards listed too, can you identify them? All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus module guide. Here's the list: B014 G180 G208 G603 G808 G808 G938 M051 M111 M113 M206 M302 M3106 4 LINE MUX M3118YA M3118YA M506 M506 M624 M7164 M7270 LSI-11/02 CPU M7608 2-4 MB RAM M7819 8 PORT SERIAL I/O M7942 VT72 BOOT M7946 RX01 CONTROLLER M8029 RX02 CONTROLLER M8029 RX02 CONTROLLER M8203 RS449 WITH MODEM M8956 M8956 M8957 M8957 R002 R205 R210 R210 R211 R220 R220 R405 R650 R650 S111 S181 S202 S203 S603 W026 W103 W640 W707 W998 If these cards are indeed rare, or of value to anybody on the list, LET ME KNOW OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS, so I can pick them up and hold them for you, for shipping and my out-of-pocket costs, of course. Please post to the list, and email me directly, Kevin From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 10 21:38:02 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <199905102154.OAA28774@shell2.aracnet.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990510173653.1e0f2d1e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990510213802.3fcffa12@intellistar.net> At 02:54 PM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote: >> Is anyone out there familar with the Motorola Power PCs? I spotted >> several today. A StarMax 4000/180, several that booted a said Power PC 604 >> and a Data Server 4000. Can anyone tell me more about these and what kind >> OS they run? > >This was one of their Macintosh clones, it would be a decent enough system, >and is upgradable to a G3 processor. Not sure how well current/future >versions of MacOS will support it. Hmmm. I don't think it's a Mac clone. The two that are working are running Windows NT. Version 3.51 I believe. BTW how the hell do you find out anything about the system such as the hard drive size using NT??? FWIW they have 32 Mb of RAM and are using a SCSI-II bus. > >Not sure about the DataServer 4000 though, I suppose these things might also >run AIX, but that and Linux would be about the only other OS's supported. OK thanks. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 21:45:33 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990510213802.3fcffa12@intellistar.net> References: <199905102154.OAA28774@shell2.aracnet.com> <3.0.1.16.19990510173653.1e0f2d1e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: >At 02:54 PM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote: >>> Is anyone out there familar with the Motorola Power PCs? I spotted >>> several today. A StarMax 4000/180, several that booted a said Power PC 604 >>> and a Data Server 4000. Can anyone tell me more about these and what kind >>> OS they run? >> >>This was one of their Macintosh clones, it would be a decent enough system, >>and is upgradable to a G3 processor. Not sure how well current/future >>versions of MacOS will support it. > > Hmmm. I don't think it's a Mac clone. The two that are working are >running Windows NT. Version 3.51 I believe. BTW how the hell do you find >out anything about the system such as the hard drive size using NT??? FWIW >they have 32 Mb of RAM and are using a SCSI-II bus. HUH? Wow, they're a bit of an oddity then. I know the StarMax 4000/160 and 4000/200's are listed as being MacOS clones. I suppose it's possible they'll run either, but it is more likely it's at least a change out of the ROM's. I've never even seen a PPC running NT (did know there was a port, but wasn't support dropped after 3.51?). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From stanp at storm.ca Mon May 10 20:53:34 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Two quick questions, TK70 & DS References: <4.1.19990506111433.00a948d0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <3734FFDB.4369CC2B@storm.ca> <19990509230604.1790.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <37378D9D.890722F4@storm.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > > If I remember correctly, NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives.. ;-{( > > Doesn't NetBSD support other MSCP disk drives? I thought the KQSFA looked > to the software like just any other MSCP controller. Other MSCP disks do work; I've got 2*RA70 and 6*RA72 disks on my MV3600, running NetBSD 1.4 Beta... From g at kurico.com Mon May 10 21:08:25 1999 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990510213802.3fcffa12@intellistar.net> Message-ID: > >At 02:54 PM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>> Is anyone out there familar with the Motorola Power PCs? I spotted > >>> several today. A StarMax 4000/180, several that booted a said Power PC > >>> 604 and a Data Server 4000. Can anyone tell me more about these and > >>> what kind OS they run? > >> > >>This was one of their Macintosh clones, it would be a decent enough > >>system, and is upgradable to a G3 processor. Not sure how well > >>current/future versions of MacOS will support it. > > > > Hmmm. I don't think it's a Mac clone. The two that are working are > >running Windows NT. Version 3.51 I believe. BTW how the hell do you > >find out anything about the system such as the hard drive size using > >NT??? FWIW they have 32 Mb of RAM and are using a SCSI-II bus. > > HUH? Wow, they're a bit of an oddity then. I know the StarMax 4000/160 > and 4000/200's are listed as being MacOS clones. I suppose it's possible > they'll run either, but it is more likely it's at least a change out of > the ROM's. I've never even seen a PPC running NT (did know there was a > port, but wasn't support dropped after 3.51?). Yes NT4.0 does support the PPC. Can't remember if NT5 is supposed to. I vaguely remember that it was, but my memories been slipping lately ... I have a Motorola PPC (604/100) machine designed specifically to run NT, it's a CHRP/PREP/WATEVR machine that was supposed to, eventually, be able to run either NT or MacOS. It's in quite a sad state right now (I'm not even sure exactly where it is right now). I also have another PPC machine (again 604/100) made by a company called FirePower that was formed by a bunch of old NeXT guys (the ones that were working on the multiprocessor 88100 NeXT box :( ) and eventually bought by Motorola. I currently have it running NT4.0 and SQLServer 6.5, both native. Cool little box, uses OpenFirmware (as does the other Mot). Perhaps the DataServer machine is such a CHRP/PREP beastie? You can run the disk administrator application (in the administrative tools folder) to find out about the drives. George From cfandt at netsync.net Mon May 10 20:46:27 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990510085259.00a8e710@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990510213258.00aa75a0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:06 PM 5/10/99 +0100, Tony Duell said something like: >> First thing is to see if the built-in video terminal works and go from >> there. There is a simple cable running between the Terminal Logic Board and >> the CPU Board which carries the RS-232 signal for communication. All my > >Yes, but whatever the CPU board decides to send on its end of the cable, >the terminal logic board will still do _something_... If you're worried It'll do something if the Term board/video board functions :) That's why I suggested first seeing if the video section and Terminal on "Local" works. >about that, though, just pull out the cable (the 0.1" spacing one on the >disk drive side of the machine between the terminal logic board and the >CPU board). -- snip -- >> like the old house was :( Knowing our resident archivist, Tony Duell, I >> bet he will have docs in his collection and could take it from here. If he > >Hey, I'm not an archivist :-). I don't stick manuals on shelves never to >be seen again. My manuals are 'working manuals'. I read them. I use them... That's exactly my point Tony. Nonetheless, regardless of the label used, you're more of a wellspring of technological documentation -at least regarding computers- than I've ever experienced. > >But yes, I do seem to have accumulated a rediculous number of obscure >service manuals... I try to latch onto any technical docs that I can that is related to any kind of electronic device. I've often been pleasantly surprised when I either got for myself or had to fix for someone an early radio or somesuch :) > >> by chance doesn't have the docs at hand, either someone else here could > >I have the Z-90 hardware manual here. I am not sure what you call it, it >came with the machine, so I guess it's a user manual, but it's got full >schematics, etc and more info than some service manuals that I've seen. "More info" . . . yes indeed, that's the influence of the good old Heath Company in writing those manuals :) In my mind, and other Heathkit collectors' minds, they set the standard in how a tech manual should be written and presented. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon May 10 21:16:47 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: *** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available *** In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990510172833.006b7904@mail.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990510191647.00a0a100@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings; At 05:28 PM 5/10/99 -0700, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: >Hi Gang: > >I'm on a semi-yearly business trip to Ottawa, Ontario. I stopped in this >evening at the friendly local computer recycler. Looks like I might have >hit a jackpot in regard to many pounds of old DEC cards. > >These are of the "Flip Chip" variety, and if I recollect correctly, they >may be cards from a STRAIGHT 8!!!!! > >The machine is nowhere in sight, as they are a scrap metal place it was >like chopped up over the last couple of weeks. AARGH!!! >Here is a list of the cards. Those in the know, can you advise me and >others whether these are of interest. I had the owner put the box aside >until I call him back. > >Total is about 30 pounds of cards. The list contains a sample only. There >are, in some cases, 5-6 cards of each type. There are some Q bus and Unibus >cards listed too, can you identify them? > >All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus >module guide. Well, FWIW I think your initial evaluation (of the three digit cards) is correct. I ran thru the module list for my 8/i, and a few of them show up there, but I think the "R" modules only appear in the Straight-8 and the early 'building block' sets. >If these cards are indeed rare, or of value to anybody on the list, LET ME >KNOW OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS, so I can pick them up and hold them for >you, for shipping and my out-of-pocket costs, of course. > >Please post to the list, and email me directly, Well... If no one else steps up (I don't I think that will happen), I'd possibly be interested in the entire lot depending on the price... (I know... boo, hiss) -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon May 10 21:11:45 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted Message-ID: <19990510.211146.185.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Guys: If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, and the regulator card). Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon May 10 21:34:26 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: *** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available *** Message-ID: <990510223426.25400273@trailing-edge.com> >These are of the "Flip Chip" variety, and if I recollect correctly, they >may be cards from a STRAIGHT 8!!!!! Some of them certainly are. Others look to be from -6's or older -10's. >All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus >module guide. Mainly because most are not Q-bus, Omnibus, nor Unibus boards. I'll try to remedy that :-). >B014 Are you sure it's not a B104? That's 4 inverters. My memory is real hazy on low-numbered B modules, but most are from -6's or -10's. >G180 Low density R/W amp for RK04 DECPACK drive. >G208 PDP-8 Inhibit driver - replaces G205 >G603 Memory selection matrix for PDP-6 >G808 Power supply control for PDP/8 >G938 RK05J Head Position Servo >M051 Don't recognize this one. >M111 Totem-Pole NAND gates >M113 More Totem-Pole NAND gates >M206 Don't recognize this one >M302 Two one-shots >M3118YA This is a CXA16, a 16-line serial async multiplexer as found in some DEC terminal servers. >M506 Bus receivers, I think. >M624 Bus drivers for PDP-8's and -15's. >M7164 First half of a KDA50 >M8956 >M8957 These two are out of a TU78 formatter. >R002 Common Cathode diode network >R205 I'm pretty sure this is a register module from a PDP-8 >R210 PDP8 Accumulator >R211 MB, PC, MA for PDP8 >R220 3-bit SR for PDP-8 >R405 PDP-8 clock module >R650 Don't recognize it [General note: S modules are generally R modules with clamp loads] >S111 5 mA clamp version of R111 >S181 DC Carry Chain, 6 diode gates and inverter from PDP-8 >S202 5mA clamp version of R202 >S203 5mA clamp version of R203 >S603 5mA clamp version of R603 >W026 PDP-8 connector card >W103 I think some kind of bus transceiver from a PDP-10. >W640 3 pulse converters >W707 Book says "Teletype Transmitter, 8 bit, 2 unit stop code only". I think from a PDP-10. >W998 Blank piece of vectorboard, used for custom circuits. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon May 10 21:37:59 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted Message-ID: <990510223759.25400273@trailing-edge.com> >If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, >what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, >CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, >and the regulator card). For everything except the core stack, I wouldn't hesitate to run them through the dishwasher and gently dry. The core stack should be treated substantially more delicately. If you want to see "impossibly dirty", you ought to see some 11/23's that I was maintaining at a solar cell plant. Absolutely incredibly quantities of incredibly fine aluminum dust over everything - in some cases built up over a quarter inch thick - yet they kept on (for the most part) working. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon May 10 21:43:55 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen Message-ID: <19990511024355.7149.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: ...long after I wrote... > > Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware... > > Assuming it _is_ from an HP150 machine... Indeed. > The original version (fits a 9" CRT) used a 10-pin 2 row connector : > > 1 o o 6 > 2 o o 7 > 3 o o 8 > 4 o o 9 > 5 o o 10 That's the connector, but I think it fits a larger monitor than 9", unless there's lots of space around it for the IR hardware. Many thanks, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon May 10 21:48:50 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: WD Chip Info Message-ID: <19990510.214851.183.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Guys: I need someone to ID these WD devices for me. They don't appear in any of the docs that I have. WD10C20A WD2010B - This is the HDC chip, similar to the 1010. Does anyone have the actual datasheet for the 2010? WD1015 WD11C00 WD16C92 These chips have all appeared on AT controllers at one time or another. I'm trying to find out if they can be used for something a little more useful :^} ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From roblwill at usaor.net Tue May 11 00:56:01 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted Message-ID: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II introduced? Anyway - Does anyone have, or know where I can get, for a fairly low price a MIDI card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From mbg at world.std.com Mon May 10 22:14:29 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted Message-ID: <199905110314.AA21217@world.std.com> >If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, >what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, >CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, >and the regulator card). Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher... I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck with doing it... I'm sure she'll pipe in here with info on how to do it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From danburrows at mindspring.com Mon May 10 22:00:34 1999 From: danburrows at mindspring.com (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted Message-ID: <005c01be9b5b$c7e2c790$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> Other than the core stack the first thing I do is the 120 lb air hose. It cleans a lot of sins. At least lets you see what kind of mess you have. (what was used for glue) Then Isopropyl, methanol, or some window cleaner and a paint brush or soft well worn tooth brush and blasting it frequently with air. Use an old towel to wipe the paint brush on to clean it between strokes. Be sure to wear safety glasses. Alcohol in the eyes is no fun. Dan -----Original Message----- From: jeff.kaneko@juno.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 10:30 PM Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted >Guys: > >If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, >what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, >CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, >and the regulator card). > >Jeff > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon May 10 22:23:36 1999 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: GTS-100 Power Supply Info Needed Message-ID: <199905110320.WAA18667@trailingedge.com> I have a Future Systems Inc. Model GTS-100 floppy drive for the Atari ST series computers but I don't have the manuals, cables or power supply. Does any one know specs on the power supply for this drive so I can locate a replacement. I think I once heard that it could use the same power supply as the Atari 5200 game system but don't know for sure. Also, if anyone has a source for cables or the strange 14 pin ST connector so I could make some cables, please let me know. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From eric at brouhaha.com Mon May 10 22:27:07 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: WD Chip Info In-Reply-To: <19990510.214851.183.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> References: <19990510.214851.183.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <19990511032707.9651.qmail@brouhaha.com> Jeff wrote: > WD10C20A data separator > WD2010B - This is the HDC chip, similar to the 1010. Does > anyone have the actual datasheet for the 2010? Drop-in replacement for the 1010, with ECC. Also can support >1024 cylinders, helpful with the Maxtor XT1140 and Maxtor XT2190 disk drives > WD1015 Buffer manager for use with 1010 or 2010 From eric at brouhaha.com Mon May 10 22:29:56 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: WD Chip Info In-Reply-To: <19990511032707.9651.qmail@brouhaha.com> (message from Eric Smith on 11 May 1999 03:27:07 -0000) References: <19990510.214851.183.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> <19990511032707.9651.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <19990511032956.9667.qmail@brouhaha.com> > WD2010B - This is the HDC chip, similar to the 1010. Does I wrote: > Drop-in replacement for the 1010, with ECC. Also can support >1024 > cylinders, helpful with the Maxtor XT1140 and Maxtor XT2190 disk drives Minor clarification: the chip is a drop in replacement, but if you do that, I think the drive needs to be reformatted, since the 1010 only uses a CRC rather then the longer ECC code. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 10 23:58:56 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: <199905110314.AA21217@world.std.com> Message-ID: >Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher... >I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck >with doing it... That kind of scares me also. I've had good luck with Mac's with a deep sink, mild detergent, and a rather large food dryer. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From boblash at slip.net Mon May 10 23:02:25 1999 From: boblash at slip.net (Robert Lash) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: [PDP8-Lovers] *** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available *** In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990510172833.006b7904@mail.sfu.ca> Message-ID: Hi! Some of these flip-chips are listed in my copy of the Digital Logic Handbook (1970 Edition)... in addition to the information below, if you need pinout information I can make some scans... :) > W103 PDP-8 Device Selector. "This module is used to decode the six device selector bits transmitted in complement pairs on the PDP-8 or PDP-8/S I/O bus, and it provides standard pulses to the selected device. The device code is selected by cutting one diode of each pair, BE or BF, etc. off the board. Device coding can also be accomplished by selective wiring of the bus inputs to the diode pairs. Power: +10V (A)/6.4 mA; -15V (B)/57 mA. (New list price was $52 in 1970!!) Below are details on the other modules listed in this handbook: > All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus > module guide. > > Here's the list: > ... > M051 The M051 (Level Converter) contains 12 level converters to shift K and M series logic levels to negative logic levels of ground and -3 volts. > M111 The M111 inverter consists of 16 TTL inverters. > M113 The M113 consists of 10 2-input TTL NAND gates. > M206 The M206 is a hex D flip-flop. > M302 This is a negative edge-triggered Dual Delay Multivibrator, which is adjustable from 50 nsec to 7.5 msec using it's internal capacitors. > M506 This is a Negative Input Converter for interfacing negative logic levels to M and K series logic. It consists of six non-inverting converters. > M624 The M624 provides 15 TTL bus drivers for driving PDP-8/I or PDP-8/L's that use positive input busses. These also contained gating to support Program Interrupt, I/O Skip, and Clear AC functions. > R002 Diode network for expanding inputs of R, W, and A series modules. > R205 Dual flip-flop. Requires +10 and -15V supplies. > R405 Crystal clock (frequency should be stamped on the can). > R650 Dual inverting bus driver for high-current loads. > W640 This is a pulse output converter for use with "Digital Laboratory and System Modules". > W707 Teletype transmitter. Hope this helps! Best wishes, Bob Lash bob@bambi.net ------------------------------------------- On Mon, 10 May 1999, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > From: Kevin McQuiggin > > Hi Gang: > > I'm on a semi-yearly business trip to Ottawa, Ontario. I stopped in this > evening at the friendly local computer recycler. Looks like I might have > hit a jackpot in regard to many pounds of old DEC cards. > > These are of the "Flip Chip" variety, and if I recollect correctly, they > may be cards from a STRAIGHT 8!!!!! > > The machine is nowhere in sight, as they are a scrap metal place it was > like chopped up over the last couple of weeks. > > Here is a list of the cards. Those in the know, can you advise me and > others whether these are of interest. I had the owner put the box aside > until I call him back. > > Total is about 30 pounds of cards. The list contains a sample only. There > are, in some cases, 5-6 cards of each type. There are some Q bus and Unibus > cards listed too, can you identify them? > > All cards listed are in neither the DEC field guide or Doug Jones' Omnibus > module guide. > > Here's the list: > > B014 > G180 > G208 > G603 > G808 > G808 > G938 > M051 > M111 > M113 > M206 > M302 > M3106 4 LINE MUX > M3118YA > M3118YA > M506 > M506 > M624 > M7164 > M7270 LSI-11/02 CPU > M7608 2-4 MB RAM > M7819 8 PORT SERIAL I/O > M7942 VT72 BOOT > M7946 RX01 CONTROLLER > M8029 RX02 CONTROLLER > M8029 RX02 CONTROLLER > M8203 RS449 WITH MODEM > M8956 > M8956 > M8957 > M8957 > R002 > R205 > R210 > R210 > R211 > R220 > R220 > R405 > R650 > R650 > S111 > S181 > S202 > S203 > S603 > W026 > W103 > W640 > W707 > W998 > > If these cards are indeed rare, or of value to anybody on the list, LET ME > KNOW OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS, so I can pick them up and hold them for > you, for shipping and my out-of-pocket costs, of course. > > Please post to the list, and email me directly, > > Kevin > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist has over 145,000 email communities from which to chose! > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 11 00:11:33 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: >I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II >introduced? Boarderline. It was either '89 or '90, IIRC. >Does anyone have, or know where I can get, for a fairly low price a MIDI Did anyone make one? I've never heard of one, and image they're pretty rare. >card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. This should be pretty easy to find as long as you want 10Base-T, I know from personal experience that 10Base2 is hard to find. What you want is a NuBus Ethernet card. You can often find them in junk shops that deal in old parts, and at swap meets. Though I suspect there are people on the list with extras. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon May 10 23:21:55 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: old PDPs in Australia Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990510212155.00d00dd0@agora.rdrop.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3082 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990510/2a11399c/attachment.bin From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon May 10 23:23:59 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 10, 1999 09:11:33 PM Message-ID: <199905110423.WAA05161@calico.litterbox.com> > > >I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II > >introduced? > > Boarderline. It was either '89 or '90, IIRC. > > >Does anyone have, or know where I can get, for a fairly low price a MIDI > > Did anyone make one? I've never heard of one, and image they're pretty rare. > > >card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. > > This should be pretty easy to find as long as you want 10Base-T, I know > from personal experience that 10Base2 is hard to find. What you want is a > NuBus Ethernet card. You can often find them in junk shops that deal in > old parts, and at swap meets. Though I suspect there are people on the > list with extras. Um, last I checked (admittedly about 6 months ago) you could buy a nubus ethernet board from Asante. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon May 10 23:29:40 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2x available Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990510212940.00d047d0@agora.rdrop.com> Another item seeking a home... Replies to original poster please... -jim ----------- >Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 09:36:04 -0500 >From: FRedFritz >Reply-To: ffritz@mail.mankato.msus.edu >X-Sender: "FRedFritz" (Unverified) >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) >To: jimw@agora.rdrop.com >Subject: Kapro 2x available > >Dear Jim, > >I have a working Kapro 2x which I have just retired. I purchased it new >in 1985. It is in mint condition and I have all the software and >manuals that came with it. I would be delighted to find a "good home" >for it with someone who would appreciate it. Fred Fritz > >ffritz@mail.mankato.msus.edu --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon May 10 20:15:44 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: References: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 10, 99 09:24:44 am Message-ID: <199905110516.BAA00682@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 May 99 at 19:40, Tony Duell wrote: > > I can't conclusively say it sounds like you have an H89 because I just got > > one and haven't had a chance to take a peek inside, but it sounds like you > > do. Once way to identify the H89 is by the keyboard. Does it have three > > keys to the right of the numbers in the top row that are labelled > > with colored squares (red, blue and green I believe)? If so its an H89. > > The keys with the coloured squares on them are on the function key row > (above the number row) on an H89 etc, between the Erase key and the Reset > key. On my machine they're red, blue and grey/white. > > -tony > BINGO ! As usual you are right on. So I think it's safe to say it's an H89. Now my problem is whether to keep it. Unless we can get space increasingly many old puters are going into the trash or limbo. About time some of these computer companies offered at the least some space for storage for people like us. They want to take but never offer back into the community. With the free space most have they could enable us to get this history of their product out of the garret rooms and garages. But not publicity attractive enough to bother with. Bastards ! Sorry I lost it .Rant OVER. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon May 10 20:15:43 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: References: <199905090217.WAA13639@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199905110516.BAA00673@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 May 99 at 9:24, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 8 May 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I picked up a Zenith Data Systems all-in-one box from the trash a few days > > ago. Lovely cosmetic condition. Unfortunately there's no response on the > > monitor. The fan spins up so it is getting power. Other than the Heath address > > on the back it has no model #. It looks like the pictures I have seen of the > > Z-100. Do the first models of Z-100 have a model # on them ? > > >From your description this sounds like it *could* be a Z-120, which was > the Z-100 with integrated CRT and floppy/hard drives. However, being that > there's an H89 Sound/CLock board inside, it may not be. The Z100/120 is > an S-100 compatible machine, and has a 5 slot S-100 card cage inside. > > Yours seems to have specialized boards for all the subsystems, whereas the > Z100/120 has a primary motherboard with the CPU and all the various video > circuitry. > > I can't conclusively say it sounds like you have an H89 because I just got > one and haven't had a chance to take a peek inside, but it sounds like you > do. Once way to identify the H89 is by the keyboard. Does it have three > keys to the right of the numbers in the top row that are labelled > with colored squares (red, blue and green I believe)? If so its an H89. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 04/03/99] > > Nope , the numerical pad is the rightmost keys, Itdoes have color keys on the function line. They are Off Line 5 F-keys Erase 3 color keys Reset Break The Sound board ( interesting because the main chip was labelled "Sound", with only a couple of other numbers ) has one resistor setting free like the guy had some problems and was trying to correct it . there's some burn where it and the next resister were connected I guess I'll follow Tony's test procedures to see if I can get it going, but if there is someone on the list who desires one, I will include the fdd H57 I found 3 weeks ago which I'm sure, based on Rax"s Theorum , was what attracted it to me in the first place. Rax's theorum mentions nothing about space for storage !. Hate Rax, Hate Rax's Theorum. Hare Computers, Hate Land lords !! Hate inflatable rubber sex dolls with an attitude. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon May 10 20:15:45 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990510085259.00a8e710@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 10, 99 09:06:22 am Message-ID: <199905110516.BAA00689@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 May 99 at 19:06, Tony Duell wrote: > > First thing is to see if the built-in video terminal works and go from > > there. There is a simple cable running between the Terminal Logic Board and > > the CPU Board which carries the RS-232 signal for communication. All my > > Yes, but whatever the CPU board decides to send on its end of the cable, > the terminal logic board will still do _something_... If you're worried > about that, though, just pull out the cable (the 0.1" spacing one on the > disk drive side of the machine between the terminal logic board and the > CPU board). > > Incidentally, the rule for taking one of these to bits is 'think what > order the options were added and remove the latest one first'. In other > words start by removing the disk drive and its screening can. Then remove > the daughterboards and their cables. Then the CPU board. And finally the > terminal logic board. > > > H/Z89 docs are buried somewhare in this danged house as we've recently > > moved. No time to sort and catagorize many things yet. It's gridlock almost > > like the old house was :( Knowing our resident archivist, Tony Duell, I > > bet he will have docs in his collection and could take it from here. If he > > Hey, I'm not an archivist :-). I don't stick manuals on shelves never to > be seen again. My manuals are 'working manuals'. I read them. I use them... > > But yes, I do seem to have accumulated a rediculous number of obscure > service manuals... > > > by chance doesn't have the docs at hand, either someone else here could > > I have the Z-90 hardware manual here. I am not sure what you call it, it > came with the machine, so I guess it's a user manual, but it's got full > schematics, etc and more info than some service manuals that I've seen. > > My method of fixing this would be : > > 1) Check/repair the PSU on the main chassis (see yesterday's message for > details of voltages) > 2) Check/repair PSU regulators on the terminal logic card so that is > getting the right voltages > 3) Get the terminal logic card working well enough to give the Beep at > power-on. Then see if it is producing sync/video signals. > 4) If necessary repair the monitor analogue board so that the screen > starts displaying things. > 5) Then start sorting out the CPU board. > > Let me know how you get on with the PSU tests... > > -tony > You're a rotten guy Tony. Even if I'm not into fixing it right now you're going to force me into it. Be it henceforth be noticed that I L Walker relinquish control over one H89 computer and offer it up into common domaine. Take that guilt merchant ! (but I'll still save the tips, just in case ) ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon May 10 20:15:46 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <199905102232.PAA10512@oa.ptloma.edu> References: <3.0.1.16.19990510173653.1e0f2d1e@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at May 10, 99 05:36:53 pm Message-ID: <199905110516.BAA00697@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 May 99 at 15:32, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > ::Is anyone out there familar with the Motorola Power PCs? I spotted > ::several today. A StarMax 4000/180, several that booted a said Power PC 604 > ::and a Data Server 4000. Can anyone tell me more about these and what kind > ::OS they run? > > I have an Apple Network Server 500 sitting kitty-corner to me. It's a 604e > running AIX. > > -- > -------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- Destroy a sons faith in his fathers will you ! And I thought you only used a 128LCR !! The Shame, the Shame. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 11 00:22:57 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II > introduced? Around 1988. On topic. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 11 00:46:59 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: WD Chip Info Message-ID: <003101be9b71$c3ada760$0100c0a8@fuj03> Actually, I do believe they both supported the length of ECC suitable for correction, but only the 2010 could interact properly with the 1014 to perform the correction. Why the 1014 was required in place of host-driver code, I can't say. One could set the ecc length to either 32 or 56 bits, and the latter was required for correction. I didn't figure this out until the details on the PC-based WDFMT program were published, indicating that the 1010 would support either length, though it was common knowledge that only 2010 was actually error-correction-capable. It was never clear to me how the 1014 was going to help with the correction. Apparently it became no less burdensome to effect correction in the host interface code, particularly when the scotched the whole notion of bothering with correction. I don't recall any controller actually going ahead and doing it as part of the drivers. Somebody did publish an error scrubbing app-note though. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 9:41 PM Subject: Re: WD Chip Info >> WD2010B - This is the HDC chip, similar to the 1010. Does >I wrote: >> Drop-in replacement for the 1010, with ECC. Also can support >1024 >> cylinders, helpful with the Maxtor XT1140 and Maxtor XT2190 disk drives > >Minor clarification: the chip is a drop in replacement, but if you do that, >I think the drive needs to be reformatted, since the 1010 only uses a CRC >rather then the longer ECC code. From black at gco.apana.org.au Tue May 11 15:49:41 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Wanted : (In Oz) References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <373897E4.29CC8B6D@gco.apana.org.au> I'm after a couple of things, if anyone in Australia can help : Exidy Sorceror (plus any peripherals & software). Apple II (plus anything to go with it). Anyone help ? http://members.xoom.com/llyon/index.html From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue May 11 03:43:43 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Wanted : (In Oz) References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> <373897E4.29CC8B6D@gco.apana.org.au> Message-ID: <00e301be9b8a$614a3d40$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lance Lyon To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Wednesday, 12 May 1999 6:19 Subject: Wanted : (In Oz) > I'm after a couple of things, if anyone in Australia can help : Where in Australia? I'm in S.A. > Exidy Sorceror (plus any peripherals & software). Can't help with that one. Best of luck.... > Apple II (plus anything to go with it). Might be able to help there. Email me. Cheers Geoff Roberts VK5KDR Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia. Email: geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au ICQ #: 1970476 From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 11 04:59:59 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990510173653.1e0f2d1e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: >Is anyone out there familar with the Motorola Power PCs? I spotted >several today. A StarMax 4000/180, several that booted a said Power PC 604 >and a Data Server 4000. Can anyone tell me more about these and what kind >OS they run? The Starmax is the Motorola clone of the Mac, they run Mac OS up to 8.5.1, and can be upgraded to G3. Very nice systems, I have (2). They are worth, between $250 and $500 depending on details as usual, but due to being different sometimes go for $25 when people are clueless. Try to get the purchase paperwork if at all possible, as the warranty is to the first purchaser only, but then its 5 years. Many units with problems are refurbs with 90 days (long expired). If they are cheap enough I would be interested in a couple more just for parts. From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 11 05:13:20 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: >I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II >introduced? > >Anyway - > >Does anyone have, or know where I can get, for a fairly low price a MIDI >card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. Macs use adapters via the serial ports, and they are pretty common. Midiman is a good one, but make sure you get one with a passthrough switch so you don't lose the use of the port during non-midi times. I have every flavor network card you could want for a mac, just email me directly with your plans. I even have a new batch of Asante cards still in the sealed boxes that support 10bt, 10b2, and 10b5 all on the same card. From jruschme at exit109.com Tue May 11 07:14:11 1999 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "May 10, 99 09:11:33 pm" Message-ID: <199905111214.IAA08665@crobin.home.org> > >card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. > > This should be pretty easy to find as long as you want 10Base-T, I know > from personal experience that 10Base2 is hard to find. What you want is a > NuBus Ethernet card. You can often find them in junk shops that deal in > old parts, and at swap meets. Though I suspect there are people on the > list with extras. This is one of those times when eBay is your friend. NuBUS Ethernet cards, especially out of productions ones tend to go pretty cheaply. Should also be possible to find 10Bas2 with no great difficulty. Just look for something like a Kinetics/Shiva/Dayna EtherPORT/DaynaPORT or one of the old Apple ones (a rebadged 3Com 3C5x3). Apple's is supported by standard system software. 3Com driver is still on the website. The Kinetics and Shiva are supported by teh Dayna driver; Dayna's web site still being up the last time I looked (if not, I have a copy of the installer). <<>> From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue May 11 08:07:41 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990510213802.3fcffa12@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990511080741.39f79078@intellistar.net> At 09:08 PM 5/10/99 -0500, George wrote: >Yes NT4.0 does support the PPC. Can't remember if NT5 is >supposed to. I vaguely remember that it was, but my memories >been slipping lately ... > >I have a Motorola PPC (604/100) machine designed specifically to >run NT, it's a CHRP/PREP/WATEVR machine that was supposed >to, eventually, be able to run either NT or MacOS. It's in quite a >sad state right now (I'm not even sure exactly where it is right now). > >I also have another PPC machine (again 604/100) made by a >company called FirePower that was formed by a bunch of old NeXT >guys (the ones that were working on the multiprocessor 88100 >NeXT box :( ) and eventually bought by Motorola. I currently have it >running NT4.0 and SQLServer 6.5, both native. Cool little box, >uses OpenFirmware (as does the other Mot). That sounds like it might be what we have. It's in a Motorola box. What is OpenFirmware? I've never heard of it. They are 604/100s. > >Perhaps the DataServer machine is such a CHRP/PREP beastie? > >You can run the disk administrator application (in the administrative >tools folder) to find out about the drives. I didn't see an administrative tools folder. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Tue May 11 07:53:50 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: <19990510.211146.185.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: > > If you had a pile of impossibly dirty DEC Q-Bus boards, > what would you do? (This includes the usual disk controller card, > CPU/IO/Memory extender, a couple of corestacks, the backplane, > and the regulator card). > > Jeff > With the exception of the core planes them selves I'd place them in the dishwasher with the standard dish washer soap. I've done it many times with great success. The core plane has to be cleaned far more gently and I'd avoid it if possible. The problem is not water but the thin wires breaking. At a minimum I'd clean the connectors with a solvent. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue May 11 08:05:06 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher... > >I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck > >with doing it... > > That kind of scares me also. I've had good luck with Mac's with a deep > sink, mild detergent, and a rather large food dryer. The PDP-8f boards (except core and FP) were cleaned in the dish washer. All that needs to be done is put them in like plates and use the standard dishwasher soap remove before the dry cycle (too warm) and dry in a 160-170 degree Farenheight oven. A little air to get water from under chips is not a bad thing. High pressure air can be deadly as some boards may have jumpers and ECO wire that can easily be bown off with 120psi air! Same for scrubbing as solvents like Isopropanal will swell some plastics used then and the tooth brush may remove part numbers you may later need to read. Allison From stan at netcom.com Tue May 11 08:19:05 1999 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <37382E49.C475B586@netcom.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > > I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II > introduced? I bought my first Mac II in September 1987. > Does anyone have, or know where I can get, for a fairly low price a MIDI > card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. If you want a Token Ring NuBus card, I've got one you're welcome to have. Regards, Stan From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue May 11 08:46:33 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <199905110516.BAA00697@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 11, 99 01:15:46 am Message-ID: <199905111346.GAA07320@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1051 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/578ec682/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Tue May 11 10:17:05 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: (healyzh@aracnet.com) References: Message-ID: <19990511151705.12577.qmail@brouhaha.com> > >I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II > >introduced? > Boarderline. It was either '89 or '90, IIRC. Ha! It was introduced in April of 1987, about the same time as the IBM PS/2. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue May 11 10:20:51 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <37382E49.C475B586@netcom.com> (message from Stan Perkins on Tue, 11 May 1999 06:19:05 -0700) References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> <37382E49.C475B586@netcom.com> Message-ID: <19990511152051.12623.qmail@brouhaha.com> Stan Perkins wrote: > If you want a Token Ring NuBus card, I've got one you're welcome to > have. If you threatened to give that to me, how much would I have to pay you to prevent it? :-) [I'm commenting only on the general bletcherousness of TR.] From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue May 11 08:47:56 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Commodore cassette format In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990507095137.00cdb240@vpwisfirewall> Message-ID: On 07-May-99, John Foust wrote: >My web site at (winner of the "Geek Site >Of The Day" Award on October 16, 1996) has some of my aspirations to >recover data this way, too. Nice site. You say that you would like to see more samples... what kind and what for? :) I was thinking of adding a page to my own site with the sounds of various cassette formats. Not complete programs (not enough room!) but just enough to get a feel of what the storage format sounds like. I find that there's a certain character to cassette formats, and most people don't even seem to know that cassette tape was used for home computer storage at one time. (I was also thinking of collecting character set information and having a page just for the different character sets from historical machines. I have the time now, so I guess I should do it!) BTW, what is a "Hurkle" tape? :) And I saw that funny shape (the wave on your page) in my PET program sample, and thought it was messed up, even though that particular program loaded fine. So I guess that mess is supposed to be there. :) >- John -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue May 11 09:51:14 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: CURSOR and Commodore cassettes In-Reply-To: <37354979.FEEB991D@home.com> Message-ID: On 09-May-99, Doug Coward wrote: >Doug Spence wrote: >> Does anyone have the program "RACE" from Cursor #2? > About a year ago, I transfered the first 15 or so CURSOR >tapes to Commodore disk for Larry Anderson to put up on >his BBS. Hey, thanks! I don't know how long it's been since I visited his web site (I even have a link to it on mine) but I don't remember all those disk images being there before. The "RACE" program from CURSOR #2 is on the petgms08.d64 archive. This is actually the file I was trying to salvage with the sound sampler. I'm glad I don't have to do that now, but I'm still interested in the format. BTW, I collected all twelve of those PET disks from Larry Anderson's site, but I haven't transferred any of it to the PET yet. I've looked at "RACE" on one of my C64 emulators, though, and it has "CURSOR #2, AUG 1978" as the remark on the first line, so I know it's the right one. I'm eager to check out some of the machine code games. >If I can find the tape, I can transfer it to >the pc on the little C64 dev station I set up at work. Wow! I guess you really MUST be the senior software engineer to have a C64 dev station at work. :) (Not a comment on age, a comment on being allowed to have cool toys at work.) >Doug Spence wrote: >>I need some information about the Commodore cassette storage format. >>....snip..... >>In the data portions, it appears as if every 20th wave is special > About a year and a half ago, I took my shot at converting wave files. >Unfortunately I had to move on to other projects just as I was making >progress. > First, IMHO if you are sampling at less than 44.1, you are making >things too hard on yourself. I'm limited to 40K, and I can't play samples at that rate unless I change my screen mode. The sampler and software are Classic, and the computer I'm using them on will be next year. The software only allows sampling to memory, so I wanted to keep things small. 25.5K doesn't seem too bad, but after reading the rest of your description and the sample output from your program, maybe it *isn't* good enough. The differences between the short and long pulses aren't very big. You're using 15 samples as your cutoff between short and long, and I see that 14, 15 and 16 appear. That's shaving it pretty close! >With that information, I determine the byte like this: > * the first two pulses are 1 and 1 - this is the sync bit. > * the next two pulses are the low order bit > * a 1 followed by a 0 is a 1 > * a 0 followed by a 1 is a 0 > * and the last two pulses is the parity bit That's pretty darn cool. Thanks! -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue May 11 10:16:38 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Commodore cassette format In-Reply-To: <00bc01be9a0f$be4173a0$8e932599@office1> Message-ID: On 08-May-99, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: >Here's a transcript of a converstation I had with Jim Butterfield about >the Commodore cassette format: This is really great, thanks a lot! -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From jfoust at threedee.com Tue May 11 11:00:05 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Commodore cassette format In-Reply-To: References: <00bc01be9a0f$be4173a0$8e932599@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990511110005.00fd9b20@vpwisfirewall> At 10:16 AM 5/11/99 -0500, Doug Spence wrote: >On 08-May-99, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: >>Here's a transcript of a converstation I had with Jim Butterfield about >>the Commodore cassette format: > >This is really great, thanks a lot! Jim's available at if you have more questions. At 08:47 AM 5/11/99 -0500, you wrote: >(I was also thinking of collecting character set information and having >a page just for the different character sets from historical machines. >I have the time now, so I guess I should do it!) I've had that notion, too, but have had no flood of spare time. >BTW, what is a "Hurkle" tape? :) Hurkle was a game, way back when. I don't remember the theme offhand. I don't know where it originated, but I'm sure it was in Computer Lib and/or David Ahl's early books. - John From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue May 11 11:05:47 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: Pictures from the final Paxton auction... Message-ID: For those who are still curious, but not inclined to cut and paste the collections of URLs I offered previously... The images from the final Paxton auction have (finally) coalesced into a web page, accessible from the 'recent events and appearances' selection on the Computer Garage home page: http://www.computergarage.org -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From Stukncyber at aol.com Tue May 11 11:24:29 1999 From: Stukncyber at aol.com (Stukncyber@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:58 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <28967081.2469b3bd@aol.com> Hi, I came across your address while researching Osborne computers. My mom is moving, and in packing her things, we came across my late father's Osborne Model OCC1 computer, printer, and original manuals. The unit was barely used, as my father passed away shortly after purchasing it. I was wondering if there is any interest out there for this piece of computer technology history--either via purchase or donation. Thank you for your time. From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue May 11 11:31:50 1999 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Places in LA? Message-ID: <199905111629.LAA21362@trailingedge.com> I'm going to be in LA Wed 5/12 til Sun 5/16 for E3. Don't know if I'll have time or much in the way of transportation, but is there any interesting places to look for classic computer stuff while I'm there? Silly me, of course there are, question is will any of you tell me where your secret fishing holes are? :-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From g at kurico.com Tue May 11 11:50:38 1999 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Power PC???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990511080741.39f79078@intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: > >Yes NT4.0 does support the PPC. Can't remember if NT5 is > >supposed to. I vaguely remember that it was, but my memories > >been slipping lately ... > > > >I have a Motorola PPC (604/100) machine designed specifically to > >run NT, it's a CHRP/PREP/WATEVR machine that was supposed > >to, eventually, be able to run either NT or MacOS. It's in quite a sad > >state right now (I'm not even sure exactly where it is right now). > > > >I also have another PPC machine (again 604/100) made by a > >company called FirePower that was formed by a bunch of old NeXT > >guys (the ones that were working on the multiprocessor 88100 > >NeXT box :( ) and eventually bought by Motorola. I currently have it > >running NT4.0 and SQLServer 6.5, both native. Cool little box, uses > >OpenFirmware (as does the other Mot). > > That sounds like it might be what we have. It's in a Motorola box. > What is OpenFirmware? I've never heard of it. They are 604/100s. OpenFirmware was supposed to be an "open BIOS" that any machine that conformed to PREP/CHRP standard was supposed to use that was supposed to facilitate being able to run different types of os's on different hardware. It is based on Forth. > > > >Perhaps the DataServer machine is such a CHRP/PREP beastie? > > > >You can run the disk administrator application (in the administrative > >tools folder) to find out about the drives. > > I didn't see an administrative tools folder. Ooops, you said NT 3.51, sorry I was thinking NT4. Gonna hafta think hard now as I haven't touched 3.51 in a couple of years. There still is a disk administrator app, but I can't remember off the top of my head exactly where it is but there should be some type of admin folder. Oh, also make sure you're logged in as the administrator or with a user that has admin privilages. Then again you could always run chkdsk on each (logical) drive to get a sense for what you have. Just taking a peek inside the case would also work. As well, you could go to the openfirmware prompt and query the scsi bus and it'll tell you what it has (please don't ask how to do this, I've totally forgotten, I hope my FirePower never goes down :( ) George From marvin at rain.org Tue May 11 11:55:52 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention References: <003101be9b71$c3ada760$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <37386118.5C6285A3@rain.org> I haven't heard anything about people going to Dayton except for Ethan. Not sure how to get in touch with anyone there, but I will be speaking at the ARDF forum Saturday morning and plan to compete in the foxhunt in the afternoon. There are no current plans to get together and I will be out of email contact for a few days. It should prove to be an interesting time, and I plan on killing off the swap area Friday :)! From ss at allegro.com Tue May 11 12:45:18 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Ron Ward Message-ID: <199905111745.KAA05379@bart.allegro.com> Hi, Please pardon the bandwidth...I'm looking for a valid email address for "Ron Ward", possibly something @jps.net. I received email from him, and he sounded like someone who should be on ClassicCmp... but his "from" address (n6idlron@jps.net) is bad ("unknown user"), and support at jps.net says "no one in our database with such a name". thanks, Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue May 11 13:14:08 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention Message-ID: <19990511181408.6046.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin wrote: > > I haven't heard anything about people going to Dayton except for Ethan. I should have my 2m rig with me... I don't know what freq the show is using for the public repeater, but I'm N8TVD. > ...how to get in touch with anyone there, but I will be speaking at the > ARDF forum Saturday morning... I can keep that in mind. I _won't_ be there Friday; I have to earn the money to buy the toys. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From marvin at rain.org Tue May 11 13:38:29 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention References: <19990511181408.6046.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37387925.267BEC2F@rain.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Marvin wrote: > > > > I haven't heard anything about people going to Dayton except for Ethan. > > I should have my 2m rig with me... I don't know what freq the show is > using for the public repeater, but I'm N8TVD. Great, I'll have that one with me. I'm KE6HTS, and will be staying at the Dayton Lodge with Dale Hunt. According to the Dara Web page: 146.940 (-600) - DARA's repeater - used for Talk-In the entire weekend 146.910 (-600) - DARA's back up Talk-in repeater (MVFMA) 145.110 (-600) - Dayton My guess is the repeaters will be busy though. Hope to see you there! From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 11 13:48:23 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <199905111214.IAA08665@crobin.home.org> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at "May 10, 99 09:11:33 pm" Message-ID: >This is one of those times when eBay is your friend. NuBUS Ethernet cards, >especially out of productions ones tend to go pretty cheaply. Should also >be possible to find 10Bas2 with no great difficulty. > >Just look for something like a Kinetics/Shiva/Dayna EtherPORT/DaynaPORT or >one of the old Apple ones (a rebadged 3Com 3C5x3). Apple's is supported >by standard system software. 3Com driver is still on the website. The >Kinetics and Shiva are supported by teh Dayna driver; Dayna's web site >still being up the last time I looked (if not, I have a copy of the >installer). Old cheap coax (10b2) cards aren't hard to find, but I think in most cases another $5 or so for a newer buffered card is worthwhile (like the Asante or Farallon). Most people I offer the combo cards (10bt and 10b2) prefer that option over either of the single function cards too. When you can get a brand new in the box Asante or Farallon for $20, the savings on a cheaper card seem to have less value to me. (Asante and Farallon run fine with Apple software, and both have tech support that is GREAT). I'm not sure of this, but I think the Dayna cards driver has some problem with newer OS releases (likely not an issue except in a nubus PPC). From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 11 14:24:55 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Teac FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at May 10, 99 12:40:57 pm Message-ID: >> Buy some junk systems, parts etc. and take them all apart saving the >> screws, and I would not even slow down at 100, maybe around 3,000. ;) The >> floppy drive in the subject line makes a good screw donor too. > >Problem with that method... I'll have it halfway apart, say 'Hey, it's a >trivial fault, I can fix it easily', spend the next day or so fixing >said (non-trivial) fault and _still_ need to get some screws :-) :-) "BEING" one of a half a dozen extra 5.25 floppy drives is more than a trivial fault, its a terminal illness. ;) From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 11 10:54:31 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <199905110423.WAA05161@calico.litterbox.com> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 10, 1999 09:11:33 PM Message-ID: <199905111954.PAA11851@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 May 99 at 22:23, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > > >I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II > > >introduced? > > > > Boarderline. It was either '89 or '90, IIRC. > > > > >Does anyone have, or know where I can get, for a fairly low price a MIDI > > > > Did anyone make one? I've never heard of one, and image they're pretty rare. > > > > >card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. > > Forget it. If you want a midi capable machine from that era get an Atari ST with built-in MIDI plugs and prgs. like Notator or Steinbergs Cubase. With a 512, a Plus, an SE, a llci, and a PMPC/AV also in my collection only the AV Power Mac approaches the bare computer music test like an ST and the music add-ons are more numerous. Post Atari Falcon it's a toss-up tween PC or Mac but definitely more costly. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue May 11 14:51:45 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted Message-ID: <19990511.145145.214.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that seem safe? I used to use something similar when I worked for FLUKE-- we'd use water with like a mild detergent. But then, these boards were specifically manufactured to be cleaned this way. I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). Thanks again, guys. Jeff On Tue, 11 May 1999 09:05:06 -0400 (EDT) allisonp@world.std.com writes: > > >Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher... > > >I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck > > >with doing it... > > > > That kind of scares me also. I've had good luck with Mac's with a > deep > > sink, mild detergent, and a rather large food dryer. > > The PDP-8f boards (except core and FP) were cleaned in the dish > washer. > All that needs to be done is put them in like plates and use the > standard > dishwasher soap remove before the dry cycle (too warm) and dry in a > 160-170 degree Farenheight oven. A little air to get water from > under > chips is not a bad thing. High pressure air can be deadly as some > boards > may have jumpers and ECO wire that can easily be bown off with > 120psi air! > > Same for scrubbing as solvents like Isopropanal will swell some > plastics > used then and the tooth brush may remove part numbers you may later > need > to read. > > Allison > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From allisonp at world.std.com Tue May 11 15:54:00 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: <19990511.145145.214.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking > was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that > seem safe? Maybe, maybe not, depends. Why is it that most of the manufactueres used something like if not a real dishwasher that every one is scared off here? My experience is with more than several hundred s100, multibus, Qbus, Omnibus and misc non-bus cards over 20 years of doing this it's never been a problem other than to insure the water is completely dried off the board. This does not include my expereince with marine equipment that has had a swim in salt water (hint salt eats boards!). > I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to > remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). The core stacks themselves if there were even a hint of something nasty on them they'd get washed carefully, it's the fine wire I worry about. Generally the sense and driver boards are ok to machine wash. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 13:00:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905110516.BAA00673@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 11, 99 01:15:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 675 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/c2b0410a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 13:02:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905110516.BAA00682@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 11, 99 01:15:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 847 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/e952e0a5/attachment.ksh From peter at joules.enterprise-plc.com Tue May 11 16:04:16 1999 From: peter at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) Message-ID: <000701be9bf1$d82fafa0$3fc348c2@DROOPY> Sorry for the post about a machine too young for the list but it is the first of its kind in my collection. The chips seem to be from 1994 and the RiscOS (v3) splash screen also says 1994. This machine came to me as a box only having been an insurance write off because it jumped downstairs but there only seemms to superficial damage. It boots OK but the mouse which appears to be necessary in order to use the OS is missing and appears to have a proprietary connector. Can anyone tell me either if the mice are available? Alternatively is it possible either to persuade it to work with a serial mouse or to wire in a PS/2 socket in place of the original one so that I can use a PS/2 mouse? it seems to have 4M of RAM as 1 72 pin SIMM and 1 other memory board which looks like a miniature DIMM. It also has a HDD with 59 Mb used and 159Mb free so it must be about 220Mb altogether, this make windows look a bit bloated as there appear to be some apps there as well - it also seems to boot very fast compared with modern machines. Does anyone know what processor it has and how fast it is? Thanks Pete From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 13:04:48 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905110516.BAA00689@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 11, 99 01:15:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 383 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/371973a8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 13:17:40 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990510213258.00aa75a0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 10, 99 09:46:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4103 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/d0161f7f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 13:19:18 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen In-Reply-To: <19990511024355.7149.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 10, 99 07:43:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 600 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/b2ca9b53/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 13:22:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: WD Chip Info In-Reply-To: <19990510.214851.183.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "jeff.kaneko@juno.com" at May 10, 99 09:48:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 378 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/03660fe6/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue May 11 18:58:05 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <000701be9bf1$d82fafa0$3fc348c2@DROOPY> Message-ID: <199905112159.XAA01079@horus.mch.sni.de> > Sorry for the post about a machine too young for the list but it is the > first of its kind in my collection. The chips seem to be from 1994 and the > RiscOS (v3) splash screen also says 1994. _*GREAT*_ Find - this machine is like the only surviver of the 80s and idependant architecture era - own hardwar, own os, own CPU and designed for a customer market .... The Archimedes machines from Acorn have been (are!) _very_ popular in the UK (of course), but also somewhat over here in Germany, France and the Netherlands. After The decline of the Atari ST, Acorn remaind as the sole suplyer of non-PC Machines. (check http://www.atari-computer.de/mjaap/computer/emu_acor.htm Even the Atari Scene have a lot of sympathies for this neat little boxes - a rare ocasion in the world of OS vs. OS and Machine vs Machine flame wars :) (and check http://www.hi.is/~thj/oldfiles/arc.html - you got it - a page from the far north :) Like in the ol' days, the OS resides completly in ROM. For the Hardware thing, its an ARM 3 running at 40 MHz with 200 meg HD, 4 meg DRAM, 1 meg VRAM, (and possibly a 80486 or Pentium add on) For the processor there is a usable Book from Addison Wesley called ARM System Architecture (ISBN: 0-201-40352-8) check http://www.apdl.co.uk/index.htm for software and infos - a great source. also look at http://www.apdl.co.uk/phoebe.htm about new OS releases (Acron has cut their development of hard/software last year down to nada) Other sites to check: http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~schooten/software/Rindex.html and http://www.poppyfields.net/acorn/ I don't know if Acorn itself still offers insight: http://www.acorn.co.uk But at least ARM should haf tech specs for the CPU http://www.art.acorn.co.uk > Does anyone know what processor it has and how fast it is? It's a RISC CPU, the ARM3 - one of the most interesting (and most succesfull) RISC concepts (BTW, the Newton uses also members of the ARM family, and DEC used to codevelop the StrongARM, a _very_ succesfull low power high throughput CPU - now manufactured my INTEL :) Anyway, you're just lucky ! Gruss H. -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From go at ao.com Tue May 11 17:01:25 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: References: <19990511.145145.214.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990511144754.0342d960@office.ao.com> At 04:54 PM 5/11/99 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > >> Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking >> was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that >> seem safe? > >Maybe, maybe not, depends. > >Why is it that most of the manufactueres used something like if not a real >dishwasher that every one is scared off here? In fact, for the small runs of things we do at my business, we DO use an old "portable" dish washer... But the important thing to consider is: what was installed AFTER the last aqueous board wash? For example, some older capacitors, and a lot of old switches, pots, etc., could not be washed in such a manner, as the water/detergent would find it's way inside these parts and contaminate the "delicate bits" therein. For "normal" hand-assembled boards (small runs) that get washed in the old "Kenmore," we use a solder (and possibly a spray-on) flux which includes its own "detergent." That way it becomes a cleaner in the dish washer. We add nothing to the machine during the wash except good, clean water. You do need to be reasonably careful about getting "good" water to the machine. With modern CMOS circuitry, the conductivity of the trace minerals left on boards from "normal" house water can reduce the resistance enough to cause failure of the board, where it would have gone unnoticed on the older nmos / ttl boards. > >My experience is with more than several hundred s100, multibus, Qbus, >Omnibus and misc non-bus cards over 20 years of doing this it's never been >a problem other than to insure the water is completely dried off the >board. This does not include my expereince with marine equipment that has >had a swim in salt water (hint salt eats boards!). > >> I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to >> remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). > >The core stacks themselves if there were even a hint of something nasty >on them they'd get washed carefully, it's the fine wire I worry about. >Generally the sense and driver boards are ok to machine wash. > >Allison > Gary From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue May 11 17:41:40 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: HP 150 Touchscreen Message-ID: <19990511224140.20438.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: After I wrote... > > > > Hey. I've got one of those, just the IR hardware... > > > > Remember the entire CRT screen was visible through the hole in the middle > of the board. So the board itself is a lot bigger than the CRT. If what I've got is for a 9" CRT then I should be able to use it with a PET! -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From stan at netcom.com Tue May 11 17:53:47 1999 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> <37382E49.C475B586@netcom.com> <19990511152051.12623.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3738B4FB.8778911B@netcom.com> Eric Smith wrote: > > Stan Perkins wrote: > > If you want a Token Ring NuBus card, I've got one you're welcome to > > have. > > If you threatened to give that to me, how much would I have to pay you to > prevent it? :-) > > [I'm commenting only on the general bletcherousness of TR.] I don't know what the market is for avoiding owning a TR NuBus card. Maybe I should start taking bids to see what it's worth to everyone *not* to have it! (Sort of a reverse eBay.) Stan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 11 17:00:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <000701be9bf1$d82fafa0$3fc348c2@DROOPY> from "Pete Joules" at May 11, 99 10:04:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2385 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/51ae882c/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Tue May 11 18:31:21 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > > Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking > > was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that > > seem safe? > > Maybe, maybe not, depends. > > Why is it that most of the manufactueres used something like if not a real > dishwasher that every one is scared off here? Good question! The only circuit cards that I would have any hesitation about would be those with pots/trimpots and perhaps variable capacitors installed. The possible problem there being getting them really dry. - don > My experience is with more than several hundred s100, multibus, Qbus, > Omnibus and misc non-bus cards over 20 years of doing this it's never been > a problem other than to insure the water is completely dried off the > board. This does not include my expereince with marine equipment that has > had a swim in salt water (hint salt eats boards!). > > > I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to > > remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). > > The core stacks themselves if there were even a hint of something nasty > on them they'd get washed carefully, it's the fine wire I worry about. > Generally the sense and driver boards are ok to machine wash. > > Allison > > > From elvey at hal.com Tue May 11 18:56:12 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905112356.QAA26754@civic.hal.com> allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > My experience is with more than several hundred s100, multibus, Qbus, > Omnibus and misc non-bus cards over 20 years of doing this it's never been > a problem other than to insure the water is completely dried off the > board. There is an issue with relays and switches. At the last place I was at, we had a number of field failures because of water soluble contamination of these kinds of parts. Dwight From eric at brouhaha.com Tue May 11 19:11:27 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <3738B4FB.8778911B@netcom.com> (message from Stan Perkins on Tue, 11 May 1999 15:53:47 -0700) References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> <37382E49.C475B586@netcom.com> <19990511152051.12623.qmail@brouhaha.com> <3738B4FB.8778911B@netcom.com> Message-ID: <19990512001127.15879.qmail@brouhaha.com> Stan wrote: > I don't know what the market is for avoiding owning a TR NuBus card. > Maybe I should start taking bids to see what it's worth to everyone > *not* to have it! (Sort of a reverse eBay.) Of course, you can probably gouge even more money out of me by threatening to also give me Token Ring hubs and any other Token Rink paraphenalia. :-) From stan at netcom.com Tue May 11 19:13:06 1999 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> <37382E49.C475B586@netcom.com> <19990511152051.12623.qmail@brouhaha.com> <3738B4FB.8778911B@netcom.com> <19990512001127.15879.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3738C792.C3DEE0EB@netcom.com> Eric Smith wrote: > > Stan wrote: > > I don't know what the market is for avoiding owning a TR NuBus card. > > Maybe I should start taking bids to see what it's worth to everyone > > *not* to have it! (Sort of a reverse eBay.) > > Of course, you can probably gouge even more money out of me by threatening > to also give me Token Ring hubs and any other Token Rink paraphenalia. :-) Eric, I'm afraid I don't have any more TR stuff not to give you, so you'd have to be satisfied with not having just the NuBus board. Not sorry, Stan From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue May 11 19:22:22 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <3738C792.C3DEE0EB@netcom.com> from "Stan Perkins" at May 11, 99 05:13:06 pm Message-ID: <199905120022.RAA07330@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 648 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990511/3fea05c2/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 11 19:19:22 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > Why is it that most of the manufactueres used something like if not a real > dishwasher that every one is scared off here? the reminder of washing dishes, y'know. it's a guy thing. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Tue May 11 19:27:18 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <000701be9bf1$d82fafa0$3fc348c2@DROOPY> from "Pete Joules" at May 11, 99 10:04:16 pm Message-ID: <199905120027.RAA12370@saul2.u.washington.edu> > Sorry for the post about a machine too young for the list but it is the > first of its kind in my collection. The chips seem to be from 1994 and the > RiscOS (v3) splash screen also says 1994. I think the ten-year rule can occasionally be bent. The Acornn is a really neat machine, it doesn't get that much press, and besides, Acorn stopped selling computers recently so I don't know what kind of support they still promise. All those are good reasons to discuss the subject (if the discussion stays within the spirit of the list -- no flame wars). The Acorn has some interesting ancestors which are also neat machines, also don't get that much press, and are probably _on_ topic. The BBC Model B is the most popular of those but there are some others. Have you checked the Acorn newsgroups and Web sites? They do exist. Someone also put together a list of every Acorn machine, which may help you with some details (or at least give you a sense of perspective). I can send you a copy. Other than that, I can't help you, 'cause I'm looking for information (and maybe a machine or two) myself! -- Derek From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 11 19:45:49 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: "Pete Joules" "Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 11, 22:04) References: <000701be9bf1$d82fafa0$3fc348c2@DROOPY> Message-ID: <9905120145.ZM11866@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 11, 22:04, Pete Joules wrote: > Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) > Sorry for the post about a machine too young for the list but it is the > first of its kind in my collection. The chips seem to be from 1994 and the > RiscOS (v3) splash screen also says 1994. > > This machine came to me as a box only having been an insurance write off > because it jumped downstairs but there only seemms to superficial damage. > It boots OK but the mouse which appears to be necessary in order to use the > OS is missing and appears to have a proprietary connector. Can anyone tell > me either if the mice are available? It should be a 9-pin miniDIN, it's a proprietary mouse. The original one for a machine of that vintage was a badged Logitech OEM mouse, but any mouse that outputs raw quadrature signals (fours signals for X0,X1, Y0, Y1) and three buttons (left, middle, right) will do. CPC (http://www.cpc.co.uk/home.htm) sell Archimedes-compatible mice, as do several Acorn dealers. > Alternatively is it possible either to > persuade it to work with a serial mouse or to wire in a PS/2 socket in > place of the original one so that I can use a PS/2 mouse? HENSA have some software packages that allow you to use a serial mouse on the serial port (http://micros.hensa.ac.uk/platforms/riscos.html). You can't use a PS/2 mouse directly. > it seems to have 4M of RAM as 1 72 pin SIMM and 1 other memory board which > looks like a miniature DIMM. It also has a HDD with 59 Mb used and 159Mb > free so it must be about 220Mb altogether, this make windows look a bit > bloated as there appear to be some apps there as well - it also seems to > boot very fast compared with modern machines. Minimum sensible RAM is 4M, but it will hold up to 256MB, in 72-pin fast page mode SIMMs (it doesn't need parity, but parity SIMMs will work), 70ns or faster. The other memory board is dual-ported VRAM for faster video access. Not essential. > Does anyone know what processor it has and how fast it is? Originally, an Arm 610 on a daughter board. A 710 or 810 or StrongARM will also work. Many people bought upgrades when they came out, so you often see 610s or 710s for sale for ten quid or less. Or ask on one of the acorn newsgroups; they're common enough and cheap enough that people often din't bother to advertise them, and still have them lying around. There's a fairly good Acorn FAQ which you can get from the usual sources, and is posted to the Acorn newsgouops (comp.sys.acorn.*) regularly. You really don't want this machine. I suggest you parcel it up and send it to me :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 11 20:06:16 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Commodore cassette format In-Reply-To: John Foust "Re: Commodore cassette format" (May 11, 11:00) References: <00bc01be9a0f$be4173a0$8e932599@office1> <3.0.5.32.19990511110005.00fd9b20@vpwisfirewall> Message-ID: <9905120206.ZM11888@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 11, 11:00, John Foust wrote: > At 10:16 AM 5/11/99 -0500, Doug Spence wrote: > >BTW, what is a "Hurkle" tape? :) > > Hurkle was a game, way back when. I don't remember the theme offhand. > I don't know where it originated, but I'm sure it was in Computer Lib > and/or David Ahl's early books. It's in "BASIC Computer Games", and also on one of the RSTS tapes, I think. It's one of the classic guess-the-location games; the hurkle hides on a X by X grid, you guess which square, and for each guess, the computer tells you roughly which direction you'd have to go in to reach it. Anyone who can't bear to miss it, can see hurkle and other exciting inducements on my Exidy Sorcerer, at York University's Open Day tomorrow (Wednesday). The Computer Science Department has a small exhibit of historical micros, including a PDP11/23 running 7th Edition UNIX, an Apple ][, a PET 2001-8K (calculator keyboard, and the original PET MOONLANDER program), Sorcerer, BBC Model B (running Elite and REVS), Apple Mac Plus, Archimedes A310 (serial no.2, running RISC OS, and acting as the tape drive for the Sorcerer :-)), SGI Indigo R3000. I'd show more of my collection, but there's not enough room. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From cfandt at netsync.net Tue May 11 20:14:08 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990510213258.00aa75a0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990511203437.00ac0260@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:17 PM 5/11/99 +0100, Tony Duell said something like: >> >> Upon the date 07:06 PM 5/10/99 +0100, Tony Duell said something like: >> >> First thing is to see if the built-in video terminal works and go from >> >> there. There is a simple cable running between the Terminal Logic Board >and >> >> the CPU Board which carries the RS-232 signal for communication. All my >> > >> >Yes, but whatever the CPU board decides to send on its end of the cable, >> >the terminal logic board will still do _something_... If you're worried >> >> It'll do something if the Term board/video board functions :) That's why I > >Sure. What I was trying to say is that it doesn't matter what the CPU >board and all its peripherals are doing, if the terminal logic board and >video board are working, there will be something on the screen. > >> suggested first seeing if the video section and Terminal on "Local" works. > >No problem. I think I was more commenting on trying to link up another >terminal to the CPU board cable at this early stage. I'd not start making >modifications yet. Later on, possibly, but lets check the obvious first. > >> >> like the old house was :( Knowing our resident archivist, Tony Duell, I >> >> bet he will have docs in his collection and could take it from here. If he >> > >> >Hey, I'm not an archivist :-). I don't stick manuals on shelves never to >> >be seen again. My manuals are 'working manuals'. I read them. I use them... >> >> That's exactly my point Tony. Nonetheless, regardless of the label used, > >Hence the emoticon :-)... > >Thing is, I've dealt with a number of 'professional' archivists who >couldn't/wouldn't find docs for me. Either they'd didn't know if they had >them, or they couldn't easily get to them, or they were too valuable to >look at (which begs the question as to why on earth they need to be kept >if they aren't going to be used as a source of information). Indeed if they were "professional" then they would be accomodating to get the so-called "too valuable to look at" docs in a form which could be looked at by folks like us or other types of researchers. > >I hope I'm not totally like that. OK, I do lose manuals in the many piles >I have here (which is why it took me a couple of days to find the B020 >prints). But if I can find them, I sure as heck will look at them. I've been in my old house since mid-1979. I found tucked away in the 'museum room' and library some tech manuals I'd not seen for 18 years (really). They had been shoved into a corner or crevace either because of house remodelling over the years or just getting too much stuff at one time. Now that I have a handle on what I own now, and have it segregated into the new library/museum area in the newly remodelled attic at this house, I can finally set to getting some sort of organization. With that I can make a simple catalog of the archive. For example, I have at least 250 to 300 Technical manuals for US Army Signal Corps, Navy or Air Force radio gear and some early radar -40's to '60's vintage. They are an important archive to share info with my other military electronics collector colleagues but I have to hunt, and hunt to see if I even have a particular manual. An inventory of the TM or T.O. or NAVSHIPS document number is needed. As to my rather extensive radio, television and test equipment manuals, and a more limited computer manual collection, the filing system will be slightly more complicated as there's no standardized numbering system and nomenclature to file by. It'll just have to be type of gear, manufacturer and model/part number I suppose. > > >> you're more of a wellspring of technological documentation -at least >> regarding computers- than I've ever experienced. > >You've just never asked me about other things... I have all sorts of >schematics and repair info for all sorts of devices. Somehow we figured that :-) >Radio schematics >from before the last war to the last decade :-), for example. Except for recent radios/TV's/home entertainment stuff, I too have a large source of schematics. Primarily from the late 60's all the way back to the early 20's. My archive is primarily North American built gear while I assume the large majority of yours is UK/European built gear. Same for computer gear although there seems to have been a lot of NA computer gear sold in UK/Europe -particularly like DEC, IBM, Commodore, etc. > >> >But yes, I do seem to have accumulated a rediculous number of obscure >> >service manuals... >> >> I try to latch onto any technical docs that I can that is related to any >> kind of electronic device. I've often been pleasantly surprised when I > >Generally I buy any (cheap) manual that contains schematics, etc - if I >see such a thing in a charity shop or secondhand bookshop, etc. I also try >to get the service manuals for anything I own or am working on. That may >explain the piles of odd stuff I have... :-) > >[...] > >> >I have the Z-90 hardware manual here. I am not sure what you call it, it >> >came with the machine, so I guess it's a user manual, but it's got full >> >schematics, etc and more info than some service manuals that I've seen. >> >> "More info" . . . yes indeed, that's the influence of the good old Heath >> Company in writing those manuals :) In my mind, and other Heathkit > >One thing that impressed me was that although the terminal logic board >and CPU board came assembled (even if you got the Heathkit), you still >get schematics and parts lists for them. It sure helps fixing the machine >now.... I guess with Heath because the schematics/parts lists were already at hand for the kit-versions, the manual writers carried them over to the factory assembled gear. My Zenith Z19 manual has the same info as the Operator's Manual for the Heath H19 plus a few extra things like DEC VT52 emulation, ANSI escape sequences, etc. > >I've seen 3 classes of service manuals : > >Excellent, like Heathkit, DEC and old HP. Full schematics, >theory-of-operation, maintenance, etc. You can fix the device easily with >one of these manuals, and learn a lot about it. I always enjoyed that "learn a lot about it" part :) I was the type of geek who would use them for recreational reading when I wanted to relax or just before bed. > >Useable, like most Philips and Amstrad. Schematics and parts lists, and >nothing else. These contain enough info to repair the machine, but you >have to think rather a lot... > >Useless. Board swapper guides with no schematics. May have been OK when >you could get boards to swap, but no help at all now. I have a few which >I've been given, but I rarely use them... Back in the early 80's I discovered HP had a Service Manual for their 9825. We had two at my company (both in my collection now :) so I asked the boss to spring for the $35 (IIRC) cost for one. $35! Hmmm, not bad. Back then that was a price for a relatively thick manual for other HP gear. Therefore this one must contain a wealth of info to maintain the 9825s! Well, when I got it the only schematic was for the power supply board. Two variants at that. Part numbers for the several other boards and some troubleshooting info was the only additional info in that somewhat thin manual. Sheesh. What a let-down . . . Since then, especially with my 1981 vintage HP250/30 business computer, I discovered the HP computer division (in Boise, Idaho IIRC) never published much technical info on their products. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 11 21:48:52 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: OT: Matrox Millenium II RAM Upgrade Message-ID: I realize this is totally off topic, but I've really no idea where to go with a PC question. After months of searching I managed to aquire a brand new Matrox Millenium II PCI 4Mb Video board, and a 4Mb expansion. Stupid question, which way does the expansion plug in? I've no doc's for the expansion and the Matrox web site seems to be useless! For the curious, yes, there is a reason I've been searching for one of these boards for months. It's about the best board supported by OPENSTEP, it is also supported by BeOS, Linux, and some flakey little OS or two out of Washington. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From djenner at halcyon.com Tue May 11 21:24:20 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted References: Message-ID: <3738E654.59A3291C@halcyon.com> I had a Z-19 terminal that was sitting (fortunately turned off) underneath a leaking saltwater pipe on a ship. I took out the boards, washed them with distilled water (I don't remember if there was a dishwasher on the ship!), and dried them. The terminal worked just fine. Dave allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > > Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking > > was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that > > seem safe? > > Maybe, maybe not, depends. > > Why is it that most of the manufactueres used something like if not a real > dishwasher that every one is scared off here? > > My experience is with more than several hundred s100, multibus, Qbus, > Omnibus and misc non-bus cards over 20 years of doing this it's never been > a problem other than to insure the water is completely dried off the > board. This does not include my expereince with marine equipment that has > had a swim in salt water (hint salt eats boards!). > > > I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to > > remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). > > The core stacks themselves if there were even a hint of something nasty > on them they'd get washed carefully, it's the fine wire I worry about. > Generally the sense and driver boards are ok to machine wash. > > Allison From rws at enteract.com Tue May 11 21:31:52 1999 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Megan wrote: > >Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher... > >I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck > >with doing it... > That kind of scares me also. I've had good luck with Mac's with a deep > sink, mild detergent, and a rather large food dryer. Why's everybody so afraid of putting PCB's in a dishwasher? At my old job we used a lemon juice-based flux in the wave solder pot. It was supposed to be no-clean but it just didn't work that way for the high-impedance circuits we used. So we went down to the local TV & Appliance store and got a Frigidare (IIRC- or else a Whirlpool) dishwasher. No soap, hot wash, no rinse. Open door and let air dry. Worked pretty well except for non-sealed switches, those sometimes got lime deposits. Richard Schauer rws@enteract.com From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue May 11 21:42:43 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted Message-ID: <001701be9c21$1da8ad00$0101a8c0@jay> But wouldn't the water jets in a dishwasher play havoc with those small ECO wires? Jay West From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue May 11 21:45:45 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: New find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01be9c21$88f89980$f4711fd1@5x86jk> It was used by the City and Police department. John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Paul Thompson > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 1999 10:50 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: New find > > > > Was the AS400 used by the police or seized in some manner? > > I purchased some DSSI drives which were originally used by a municipality, > including its police department. Some interesting information was left on > the disk. All they had to do was use the ERASE program in the DSSI > firmware and they could have sent a completely blank disk. I did this for > them. > > I don't believe that Linux is supported on the AS400. In fact, AIX > probably isn't supported if this is a CISC AS400, which it probably is > judging from its price and age. If it's RISC I believe AIX still requires > a pricey firmware change. > > Paul > > On Sun, 9 May 1999, LordTyran wrote: > > > > > > >Today at a Police auction I picked up IBM AS/400 model 9309 for $25 > > for the > >rack and other parts. Not sure when I will be able to fire it > > up. > > Very, very cool sounding. Two questions, does it have the OS, > > and secondly > how hard is it to get the OS for one? The AS/400's sound > > rather > interesting. > Eh? OS isn't hard to find... depending on what > > you want to run on it.. Linux is free, and is stable from what I've > > heard.. > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue May 11 21:45:37 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: static bags Message-ID: <001901be9c21$851bd480$0101a8c0@jay> I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from the list? Jay West From roblwill at usaor.net Wed May 12 00:45:10 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted Message-ID: <01be9c3a$997a06e0$b38ea6d1@the-general> I probably should have been more specific about the network card I need. I'm trying to set up a basic peer-to-peer network between my P200, a P70, the Mac, and a 5170 in the garage. I have cards for the PC's, but I need one for the Mac. I'm not sure what kind of card I need (first experience with a network), so I hope the ones I have for the PC's are the correct type (they have the BNC connector). Is there any way to tell what type they are by looking at them? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 BTW: My school ran a token ring network until this year. They had a full 256bps transfer rate by the time the computers in the basement got connected (which took about 30 minutes). -----Original Message----- From: Stan Perkins To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 6:21 AM Subject: Re: Mac II stuff needed/wanted >Jason Willgruber wrote: >> >> I'm not sure if this in On-topic or Off- topic. What year was the Mac II >> introduced? > >I bought my first Mac II in September 1987. > >> Does anyone have, or know where I can get, for a fairly low price a MIDI >> card for a Mac II? I'm also looking for a network card for a Mac II. > >If you want a Token Ring NuBus card, I've got one you're welcome to >have. > >Regards, >Stan > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue May 11 22:13:35 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted Message-ID: In a message dated 5/11/99 10:00:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, roblwill@usaor.net writes: > I'm trying to set up a basic peer-to-peer network between my P200, a P70, > the Mac, and a 5170 in the garage. I have cards for the PC's, but I need > one for the Mac. I'm not sure what kind of card I need (first experience > with a network), so I hope the ones I have for the PC's are the correct type > (they have the BNC connector). Is there any way to tell what type they are > by looking at them? well, any mac II series will need a nubus NIC. If most of the NICs have the bnc (coax) connector, you'll have to get the same for the mac. Good thing is that coax NICs (10base2) are easier to find since they are older. I was lucky to find a combo NIC for my IIsi. From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Tue May 11 19:25:47 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905120419.AAA14022@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:13:35 EDT > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Mac II stuff needed/wanted > In a message dated 5/11/99 10:00:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > roblwill@usaor.net writes: > > > I'm trying to set up a basic peer-to-peer network between my P200, a P70, > well, any mac II series will need a nubus NIC. If most of the NICs have the > bnc (coax) connector, you'll have to get the same for the mac. Good thing is > that coax NICs (10base2) are easier to find since they are older. I was > lucky to find a combo NIC for my IIsi. Networking is wonderful tool to use but works very well if you have hot plugging capiblity which TP does. Hub if you want more than 2 machines connected up. Coax one take the still connected T connector off the machine possible but I don't know if that is good to have exposed pin and dunno how signal quality would affected by this? I do that all the time with homemade crossed TP cable on my machines to transfer data and backup data to fix something and reload stuff back on. AND, keep using that machine to surf the net while data is shuffling between 2 machines (isolated) If you have 16bit card set for irq that is for 8bit bus, it will slow down the data flow. :) To be honest, I prefer TP and hub stuff. Wizard From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Tue May 11 19:56:28 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: OT: Matrox Millenium II RAM Upgrade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905120450.AAA03481@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:48:52 -0800 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Zane H. Healy" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: OT: Matrox Millenium II RAM Upgrade > I realize this is totally off topic, but I've really no idea where to go > with a PC question. After months of searching I managed to aquire a brand > new Matrox Millenium II PCI 4Mb Video board, and a 4Mb expansion. > > Stupid question, which way does the expansion plug in? I've no doc's for > the expansion and the Matrox web site seems to be useless! > > For the curious, yes, there is a reason I've been searching for one of > these boards for months. It's about the best board supported by OPENSTEP, > it is also supported by BeOS, Linux, and some flakey little OS or two out > of Washington. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > From donm at crash.cts.com Wed May 12 00:57:08 1999 From: donm at crash.cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: (fwd) Free HP-9000 system Message-ID: From: Don Maslin To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Subject: (fwd) Free HP-9000 system -- forwarded message -- Path: nusku.cts.com!mercury.cts.com!nntp.flash.net!newsfeed.usit.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail From: zonn @ zonn . com (Zonn) Newsgroups: sdnet.forsale Subject: Free HP-9000 system Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:31:58 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3739bde8.19667537@news.supernews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 926465326 MWA72TVIJC708CCD8 usenet49.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Xref: nusku.cts.com sdnet.forsale:1211 Somebody out there must collect these old things? System includes: Qty Part ---- ---- 1 HP-9000 CPU 2 HP-9144 Tape drive 1 HP-9121 Floppy Disks 1 HP-9122 Floppy Disks Many Sketch Pro digitizing pads 2 Think Jet Printers (HPIB) 2 Paint Jet Printers (HPIB) Some Miscellaneous odds and ends, includes box of operating system tapes. 0 Documentation First person to email, and is able to pick up (or I'm willing to drop off) takes it all. But you got to be smart enough to remove all the spaces in the following email address: zonn @ zonn . com I'm not interesting in shipping this anywhere, I'm in the North County area of San Diego, CA -Zonn -- end of forwarded message -- From peter at joules.enterprise-plc.com Wed May 12 00:50:20 1999 From: peter at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) References: <199905120027.RAA12370@saul2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <001101be9c3b$55184510$2ac348c2@DROOPY> ----- Original Message ----- From: Derek Peschel | | The Acorn has some interesting ancestors which are also neat machines, also | don't get that much press, and are probably _on_ topic. The BBC Model B is | the most popular of those but there are some others. | I had assumed that there was a BBC connection somewhere as the command line help system mentions BBC BASIC among the available subjects. I found the commmand line interface 'by accident' simply pressing all of the non alpha keys in turn, F12 scrolled the desktop up by one line and a * prompt appeared so as a first guess I typed 'help' and found what appears to be quite a comprehensive help system. The only trouble is, I can't find a way back to the desktop without resetting it :(. Thanks to all those who replied, I will try searching around Usenet and the web at work today. I only got the machine last night so I haven't had time for much research yet and I though Classiccmp was a good place to start. The processor is an ARM610 for those who mentioned the alternatives. Regards Pete From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 12 02:16:19 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:43:59 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: <001901be9c21$851bd480$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: >I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated >from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. > >Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards >in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from >the list? > >Jay West Sadly our new servers are using different hard drive sleds, the ones we'd been using were perfect for dual and quad height DEC boards, and I'm about out also. I've a question along this line, what about newspaper? I've used that, but I've heard recently that's not a good idea. I've gotten boards wrapped in foil, not sure if they worked, don't remember if I tested them (scares the H*** out of me having them wrapped that way even though I hear it's safe) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 12 01:21:35 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: static bags Message-ID: <9905120721.ZM12302@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 11, 21:45, Jay West wrote: > Subject: static bags > I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated > from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. > > Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards > in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from > the list? Most electronics suppliers should sell them, though you might have to buy them in tens or hundreds. they're certainly easy to get here. Another cheap sopurce is often PC shops that assemble PCs; they get interface cards and hard drives in them, and tend to throw them away. The silvered ones are static shielded and static dissipative, the black conductive ones are static dissipative, the pink ones are not very good at anything (except perhaps keeping the dust off). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 12 01:22:23 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) Message-ID: <9905120722.ZM12306@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 12, 6:50, Pete Joules wrote: > I found the commmand line interface 'by accident' simply pressing all of the > non alpha keys in turn, F12 scrolled the desktop up by one line and a * > prompt appeared so as a first guess I typed 'help' and found what appears to > be quite a comprehensive help system. The only trouble is, I can't find a > way back to the desktop without resetting it :(. Assuming the default settings for the system is the desktop, you can get back simply by pressing the RETURN key on a line by itself (no spaces, etc). You can see the system settings by typing *status. You can set them with *configure. You can see the environment settings (which mostly also apply to the desktop) with *show. You can set them with *configure. You can enter BASIC from the command line with *BASIC. And so on... All of these commands accept abbreviations, eg *sh. for *show. They're not case-sensitive, by the way. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 12 01:27:02 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: static bags" (May 11, 23:16) References: Message-ID: <9905120727.ZM12338@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 11, 23:16, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've gotten boards wrapped in foil, not sure if they worked, don't remember > if I tested them (scares the H*** out of me having them wrapped that way > even though I hear it's safe) Foil is fine[1], because it's conductive, just like black conductive plastic bags and black conductive foam, only more so, of course. The drawback is that it tends to get punctured by the protruding leads and is easily torn. The point of any static dissipative system is to keep everything at the same potential. [1] except for anything that has a backup battery on board, or for a few CMOS real-time-clock chips (most are OK, though). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mmcmanus at direct.ca Wed May 12 01:33:14 1999 From: mmcmanus at direct.ca (mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: <28967081.2469b3bd@aol.com> Message-ID: <006101be9c41$51678a60$368d42d8@mmcmanus> There is a interest by a small group of collectors and computer museums. If you want to sell it, try ebay. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:24 AM Subject: (no subject) > Hi, I came across your address while researching Osborne computers. > > My mom is moving, and in packing her things, we came across my late father's > Osborne Model OCC1 computer, printer, and original manuals. The unit was > barely used, as my father passed away shortly after purchasing it. > > I was wondering if there is any interest out there for this piece of computer > technology history--either via purchase or donation. > > Thank you for your time. > From jpl15 at netcom.com Wed May 12 02:14:42 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Wang VS7110 System FREE Message-ID: An update on the Wang system I rescued from Certain Death.. I found a good portion of the manuals today while on an un-related mission to the warehouse. I was walking past 2-story-high pallet racks full of boxes of paper files, and a Wang binder caught my eye.. sure enough, what appears to be the operations documentation, including much custom work by the sysop(s) was in an open box. I now have it with the machine itself. Anyone on (or off) the List who is interested in acquiring this taken-out-of-service 7110 system... contact me via e-mail. It seriously wants a loving home and some 220-1 ph to eat. FREE FREE FREE Cheers John From sring at uslink.net Wed May 12 02:35:06 1999 From: sring at uslink.net (END USER) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: BASIC Message-ID: <01be9c49$f50a6f40$4f57ddcc@enduser> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? Stephanie sring@uslink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/3bcfab15/attachment.html From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 12 01:52:53 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <3738B4FB.8778911B@netcom.com> References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> <37382E49.C475B586@netcom.com> <19990511152051.12623.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: >I don't know what the market is for avoiding owning a TR NuBus card. >Maybe I should start taking bids to see what it's worth to everyone >*not* to have it! (Sort of a reverse eBay.) Somebody out there must still need one, and when you find them see if they want a few copies of Rumba for windows version 1.1. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 12 01:53:16 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: <001901be9c21$851bd480$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: >I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated >from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. > >Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards >in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from >the list? Dumpster the day after a computer show, swap meet, etc. Beg from just about any moderate volume repair joint, or check the dumpster behind them. Fry's wants about $30/100 for modest sized bags, and thats too much (much worse smaller amounts too). From mranalog at home.com Wed May 12 04:22:28 1999 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Commodore cassettes Message-ID: <37394854.514E5B37@home.com> Doug Spence said: > Wow! I guess you really MUST be the senior software engineer to have > a C64 dev station at work. :) (Not a comment on age, a comment on > being allowed to have cool toys at work.) I have my office full of some of my favorite toys, and a large selection of classic computer documentation. It's a great stress reliever. > 25.5K doesn't seem too bad, but after reading the rest of your > description and the sample output from your program, maybe it *isn't* > good enough. The differences between the short and long pulses aren't > very big. You're using 15 samples as your cutoff between short and > long, and I see that 14, 15 and 16 appear. That's shaving it pretty > close! Like I said, I stopped at this point, but you'll notice that once you read pass the two cycles that make up the sync bit, the rest of the cycles in that byte consist of one large cycle and one small cycle. If you compare the cycle lengths IN PAIRS then the different in small and large cycles becomes more pronounced and you can forget about the 15 samples definition.(One has to be smaller than the other) I didn't find the header format reference I mentioned, I do know that the header is read into the cassette buffer and I believe that make it about 191 or 192 bytes long. I also know that when the header is loaded into the cassette buffer in the C64: $033D - Low byte of start address $033E - High byte of start address $033F - Low byte of ending address $0340 - High byte of ending address $0341 - Start of the filename Looking at the printout I sent, it looks to me that the header starts with 9 to 1 countdown, then the header ID number. I (again) believe that 01 is the ID for a program header and 04 is the ID for a data file header. Then you have the start address (01 08 = $0801) and the ending address (23 08 = $0823). Followed by the filename. --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA ==================================================== From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 12 04:32:37 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Cal Poly Pomona hamfest, Sat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm just curious if anybody else is going to the hamfest Saturday at Cal Poly Pomona (Calif)? I prefer it to TRW since it is big enough that anybody can toss some junk in the trunk and sell it, as opposed to 99% of spaces taken by long term dealers. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 12 04:35:59 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: BASIC In-Reply-To: <01be9c49$f50a6f40$4f57ddcc@enduser> Message-ID: > I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web >sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? >Stephanie sring@uslink.net Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on a Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have? From danburrows at mindspring.com Wed May 12 05:58:11 1999 From: danburrows at mindspring.com (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: static bags Message-ID: <048f01be9c67$2d75c510$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> >>I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated >>from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. >> >>Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards >>in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from >>the list? The best price I have found recently is from Contact East (800) 743-8181. http://www.contacteast.com The following is per hundred of each size. 6X10 $7.70 10X12 $13.50 12X18 $24.80. These are the sizes I just recently bought to cover dual, quad and hex width DEC boards. Granted they are only 1.6 mil but I only use them for end user sales. I have talked one of the scrappers I work with into saving the ones he gets in for everything else. Dan From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 12 07:55:33 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: static bags Message-ID: <000a01be9c76$b93cdc00$0100c0a8@fuj03> If memory serves, there are two classes of protective wrap which are SUPPOSED to be used. One, the "primary" packaging layer, is supposed to be moderately conductive so that it forms a protective layer around the entire perpiphery of the card, thereby protecting it (the card) from spot chrges transferred to it by handling. The other, the "secondary" packaging layer, is intended to provide mechanical protection for the card and its primary packaging. Common examples of the primary packaging include the black conductive bags we commonly see used for this purpose. The pink-poly bags and bubble wrap, etc, are anti-static but not conductive, and are consequently qualified as "secondary" packaging, as they create no static charge on their own, but don't do anything to dissipate it. Aluminum foil, properly applied will qualify as primary packaging, though it's not ideal due to its fragility. The fact that it will discharge batteries and other things likely to be found on a board causes other concerns, but, PROPERLY applied, it will serve as primary ESD-protective packaging. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 12:27 AM Subject: Re: static bags >>I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags (appropriated >>from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. >> >>Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing cards >>in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom from >>the list? >> >>Jay West > >Sadly our new servers are using different hard drive sleds, the ones we'd >been using were perfect for dual and quad height DEC boards, and I'm about >out also. > >I've a question along this line, what about newspaper? I've used that, but >I've heard recently that's not a good idea. > >I've gotten boards wrapped in foil, not sure if they worked, don't remember >if I tested them (scares the H*** out of me having them wrapped that way >even though I hear it's safe) > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cfandt at netsync.net Wed May 12 08:13:56 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990512090129.00adc240@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:31 PM 5/11/99 -0500, Richard W. Schauer said something like: > > >On Mon, 10 May 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Megan wrote: >> >Allison keeps mentioning putting them in the dishwasher... >> >I'm somewhat hesitant to do so. But she's had good luck >> >with doing it... >> That kind of scares me also. I've had good luck with Mac's with a deep >> sink, mild detergent, and a rather large food dryer. > >Why's everybody so afraid of putting PCB's in a dishwasher? At my old job -- snip -- Dishwashers are a solution as well as a moderately stiff brush, small pan of a dish detergent/H2O mixture in a pan in a sink with rinsing done under a stream of very warm tap water. The things we must be aware of are the parts which can be hurt by water intrusion and paper labels. With me, I try to maintain the stick-on labels even if they are trivial. The obviously important ones are EPROM labels, board part numbers and suchlike. Careful washing with a brush is best here. However, unless there's a stuck-on layer of water-soluable glop on the board, I just use a household vacuum cleaner and a soft 1" wide paint brush to get dust and loose matter off and simply stay away from hydrous cleaning. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From cfandt at netsync.net Wed May 12 08:34:27 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: BASIC In-Reply-To: References: <01be9c49$f50a6f40$4f57ddcc@enduser> Message-ID: <4.1.19990512091924.00ad9c60@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 02:35 AM 5/12/99 -0700, Mike Ford said something like: >> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web >>sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? >>Stephanie sring@uslink.net > >Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on a >Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have? > Gee Stephanie, that question makes some of us feel *old*! :-) Us 'older folks' learned BASIC back in the old days and knew it as always having line numbers then. Mike falls within "our group" it appears. Nowadays, the apparent influences of other structured languages like the Pascal flavors, ADA, C/C++, etc. have allowed modern BASICs to be designed to not use line numbers, and hence, be somewhat more structured :) First BASIC I came across that didn't have line numbering was BASIC-09 that I used on my OS-9/68k industrial computer in the late 80's. The BASIC-09 was first written for the 6809-based Radio Shack Color Computers (early 80's vintage) which ran OS-9 Level 1 and was eventually ported over to the 68000 level of OS-9. Compared with the OS-9 Pascal I also had, it looked quite similar. That brought me renewed respect for BASIC. *Structured* BASIC, that is. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From jlwest at tseinc.com Wed May 12 09:00:41 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: BASIC Message-ID: <006901be9c7f$d2df9400$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> And of course, let's not forget TimeShare BASIC on the HP2000! It ran on 2100, 21MX, and 21MXE systems (all HP). That system brought up a BASIC environment on each terminal (no access to other languages, etc.). No editor either, to replace a line you just retyped the line using the same line number. According to Jeff Moffat's website, there was also a multiuser BASIC available on the 2100. It appears to be a stripped down precursor to TSB. Matter of fact, he has an emuator AND the images for the multiuser BASIC available on his website. IIRC, it's at http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100 Cheers! Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 8:43 AM Subject: Re: BASIC >Upon the date 02:35 AM 5/12/99 -0700, Mike Ford said something like: >>> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web >>>sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? >>>Stephanie sring@uslink.net >> >>Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on a >>Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have? >> > >Gee Stephanie, that question makes some of us feel *old*! :-) > >Us 'older folks' learned BASIC back in the old days and knew it as always >having line numbers then. Mike falls within "our group" it appears. >Nowadays, the apparent influences of other structured languages like the >Pascal flavors, ADA, C/C++, etc. have allowed modern BASICs to be designed >to not use line numbers, and hence, be somewhat more structured :) > >First BASIC I came across that didn't have line numbering was BASIC-09 that >I used on my OS-9/68k industrial computer in the late 80's. The BASIC-09 >was first written for the 6809-based Radio Shack Color Computers (early >80's vintage) which ran OS-9 Level 1 and was eventually ported over to the >68000 level of OS-9. Compared with the OS-9 Pascal I also had, it looked >quite similar. That brought me renewed respect for BASIC. *Structured* >BASIC, that is. > >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 12 09:51:14 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990512091924.00ad9c60@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: > >> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web > >>sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? > >Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on a > >Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have? On Wed, 12 May 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > Gee Stephanie, that question makes some of us feel *old*! :-) > Us 'older folks' learned BASIC back in the old days and knew it as always > having line numbers then. Mike falls within "our group" it appears. So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without line numbers! And dialects of FORTRAN that don't require a FORMAT statement! And did you hear about "Visual COBOL"?? What is this world coming to? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed May 12 10:03:06 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC Message-ID: <19990512150306.29782.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without > line numbers! Not only BASIC without line numbers, but *classic* era BASIC - AmigaDOS 1.1 shipped in 1986 with AmigaBasic (not the older ABasic of which I know little) and it does not require line numbers. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed May 12 10:24:33 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at May 12, 99 07:51:14 am Message-ID: <199905121524.IAA12400@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 661 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/147d0d9a/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Wed May 12 10:40:58 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <19990512150306.29782.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990512114058.009af260@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Ethan Dicks had spoken clearly: >--- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: >> So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without >> line numbers! > >Not only BASIC without line numbers, but *classic* era BASIC - AmigaDOS 1.1 >shipped in 1986 with AmigaBasic (not the older ABasic of which I know little) >and it does not require line numbers. Like was mentioned on this list once before... Basic09 for OS-9... 1981 or 82, wasn't it? Also, wasn't there was a Basic for the Mac when it first came out in '84 that had no line numbers? See ya, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed May 12 12:39:54 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <19990512150306.29782.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <199905121540.RAA22343@horus.mch.sni.de> > > So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without > > line numbers! > Not only BASIC without line numbers, but *classic* era BASIC - AmigaDOS 1.1 > shipped in 1986 with AmigaBasic (not the older ABasic of which I know little) > and it does not require line numbers. There have been several Basic-alikes (could be only Basic alikes, or imposters, since true BASIC has to have line numbers) before (like GFA-BASIC - available not only for the ST, but also PC and Amiga). Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed May 12 12:39:54 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <199905121524.IAA12400@oa.ptloma.edu> References: from "Fred Cisin" at May 12, 99 07:51:14 am Message-ID: <199905121540.RAA22346@horus.mch.sni.de> > ::So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without > ::line numbers! And dialects of FORTRAN that don't require a FORMAT > ::statement! And did you hear about "Visual COBOL"?? > ::What is this world coming to? > Perl. :-) (runs for the hills) There can't be anything new in programming after ADA :) Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed May 12 11:59:11 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <199905121540.RAA22343@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > There have been several Basic-alikes (could be only Basic alikes, > or imposters, since true BASIC has to have line numbers) before > (like GFA-BASIC - available not only for the ST, but also PC and > Amiga). Hmmm... As I recall, when the folk that created BASIC originally brought out a 'new' version called "True BASIC" (to combat the MS mutations to the language), this newer version was 'line number optional'... Of course, my memory could be a bit defective in this... Does anyone have a copy of "True BASIC" that they could check on this? -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From cfandt at netsync.net Wed May 12 12:06:05 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990512091924.00ad9c60@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990512125234.00ad33e0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:51 AM 5/12/99 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said something like: >> >> I'm interested in the old line numbered basics. Are there any web >> >>sites or email lists regarding programming in the old basic languages? >> >Yipes, I thought they were all that way. ;) Then again I learned basic on a >> >Data General via teletype. What sort of questions do you have? >On Wed, 12 May 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: >> Gee Stephanie, that question makes some of us feel *old*! :-) >> Us 'older folks' learned BASIC back in the old days and knew it as always >> having line numbers then. Mike falls within "our group" it appears. > >So, it's true!? There really are new dialects of BASIC without >line numbers! And dialects of FORTRAN that don't require a FORMAT >statement! And did you hear about "Visual COBOL"?? Yep! Imagine that! > > >What is this world coming to? It's plumb gone to Hell in a handbasket! :) Seriously, the newer compilers/interpreters for the old time languages such as BASIC, FORTRAN, etc. are benefiting from new ideas introduced in the new generation of languages. This is of course possible not just because of new thinking but because cheaper memory and cheaper mass storage allows code to be added which implement those new fangled ideas. Kinda gotten out of hand nowadays it seems judging from the amount of code bloat found in some new compilers. Back in the early days when every single byte of RAM and disk storage counted, no matter what new idea came along it was hard to implement as it had to be supported by hardware resources. And those resources were either not invented yet or way too expensive for the majority of users. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From van at mag.wired.com Wed May 12 13:08:41 1999 From: van at mag.wired.com (van burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: <9905120721.ZM12302@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Consolidated Plastics. Call 800-362-1000. xoxo van >On May 11, 21:45, Jay West wrote: >> Subject: static bags >> I've pretty well run out of my supply of PCB antistatic bags >(appropriated >> from inbound work shipments) for storing spare cards. >> >> Does anyone know of a cheap source for antistatic ziplocks for storing >cards >> in? I have heard of just using aluminum foil, etc. Any words of wisdom >from >> the list? van burnham +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ van@wired.com +++ senior production manager +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ wired magazine ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 520 third street third floor san francisco california 94107 415.276.4979 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed May 12 09:11:55 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: References: <199905110516.BAA00689@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 11, 99 01:15:45 am Message-ID: <199905121811.OAA24452@smtp.interlog.com> On 11 May 99 at 19:04, Tony Duell wrote: > > You're a rotten guy Tony. Even if I'm not into fixing it right now you're > > Well, if you don't want (possible) fixes, don't ask about some old > machine :-) :-) :-) > > > going to force me into it. Be it henceforth be noticed that I L Walker > > I guess I just hate the thought of a computer which doesn't work. They > were designed to run, and they should be given the chance. > > -tony > Sighhh. But like you I have a backlog of machines waiting for my ministrations. Not to mention the 8 mantle radios hoping I can pass them on to a comfortable yuppie home at a comfortable price, nor the 3 in bits reel to reels. I will admit that my resolve to put it on a back shelf is weakening under the forcefull assault of logic and passion for old computers that I'm seeing. Up Tesla !! ciao ........,,, larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From jlewczyk at his.com Wed May 12 15:16:55 1999 From: jlewczyk at his.com (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Has anyone ever seen an ECD Micromind computer? Message-ID: <000001be9cb4$6130b160$013da8c0@Corellian> The Comprehensive Computer Catalogue at http://plato.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/ccorgs.htm lists this computer as follows: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------- "The ECD Corp's MicroMind was a 6502-based computer dating to around the time of the Apple II. It had memory management (!) and an advanced video display with downloadable fonts, up to 132 characters per line, and smooth scrolling. The prototypes were wire-wrapped, as were the initial (and only, alas) models that were actually sold. Its smooth-scrolling capability, unique among micros at the time, made it attractive to hospitals to present the list of TV stations avilable on hospital channels. The cost of $8K was no object. The plan was to go to printed-circuit board, and ads were taken out in Byte magazine offering the machine for $1500. Orders poured in, but the PC version never appeared (the orders were all refunded). The 3 founders of ECD laid off all its employees and held on for awhile, but ECD itself eventually went bankrupt." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ I have a number of their ads and was wondering whether anyone has ever seen one of these machines in person, or knows any one of the developers. From donm at cts.com Wed May 12 16:19:04 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 stuff Message-ID: A few days ago, I undertook to install a Maxtor XT2190 (that had previously been used in a PC running DOS) in my VAXStation 2000. I brought up T 70 and, to my relief and joy, it scanned the disk and declared it an RD54! The relief came since I was not at all sure that I could come up with all of the data that T 70 requires when it goes into query mode. Is there a program that can extract that data from a 'real' RD54? At any rate, the format proceeded smoothly and with the help of Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 13:25:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Mac II stuff needed/wanted In-Reply-To: <199905120419.AAA14022@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at May 12, 99 00:25:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1296 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/51be1bc7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 13:35:09 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <199905120027.RAA12370@saul2.u.washington.edu> from "Derek Peschel" at May 11, 99 05:27:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1119 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/dfb0cabe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 13:48:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990511203437.00ac0260@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 11, 99 09:14:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4834 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/117f25a9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 14:32:06 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 11, 99 11:16:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 828 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/a224b67b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 14:21:43 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: <001901be9c21$851bd480$0101a8c0@jay> from "Jay West" at May 11, 99 09:45:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 684 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/ec57da41/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 14:52:24 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: BASIC In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990512091924.00ad9c60@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 12, 99 09:34:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1335 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/529cca00/attachment.ksh From clintw at colorado.cirrus.com Wed May 12 16:39:14 1999 From: clintw at colorado.cirrus.com (Clint Wolff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 stuff Message-ID: <199905122139.PAA18352@ws2044.colorado.cirrus.com> Hiya, > > > > A few days ago, I undertook to install a Maxtor XT2190 (that had > previously been used in a PC running DOS) in my VAXStation 2000. I > brought up T 70 and, to my relief and joy, it scanned the disk and > declared it an RD54! The relief came since I was not at all sure that > I could come up with all of the data that T 70 requires when it goes > into query mode. Is there a program that can extract that data from a > 'real' RD54? > The values for the prompts can be found in: http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq_text.html Just load this page, and the search for "test 70". There is another page somewhere that describes how to calculate the media ID, but I forget the URL. > At any rate, the format proceeded smoothly and with the help of > Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the > drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I > need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. > I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? > > - don I dunno, I don't use VMS, but I got a lot of layered product licenses w/tapes. clint From clintw at colorado.cirrus.com Wed May 12 16:47:09 1999 From: clintw at colorado.cirrus.com (Clint Wolff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? Message-ID: <199905122147.PAA18359@ws2044.colorado.cirrus.com> > > > >Thing is, I've dealt with a number of 'professional' archivists who > > >couldn't/wouldn't find docs for me. Either they'd didn't know if they had > > >them, or they couldn't easily get to them, or they were too valuable to > > >look at (which begs the question as to why on earth they need to be kept > > >if they aren't going to be used as a source of information). > > > > Indeed if they were "professional" then they would be accomodating to get > > the so-called "too valuable to look at" docs in a form which could be > > looked at by folks like us or other types of researchers. > > Agreed. For most documents produced in the last 200 years, the important > feature is the information that they contain, not the paper/ink that they > were produced with. So looking at a good copy would be equally useful. > > I can fully understand that making copies can damage documents. So why > don't they make 1 good copy using whatever technique causes the least > damage and then treat that as a semi-raare document that can be inspected > carefully by interested people? If it gets damaged (through excessive > copying, perhaps), then they could make one more copy of the original. But if the original is damaged in some way by making the copy (the pages may crumble just in handling), shouldn't the original be saved with the hope that a method of duplicating that doesn't destroy the original with be found in the next few years? Also, if the pages fall apart with with handling, it may not be possible to make a copy at all. Proposal for copying really OLD documents (I get a royalty if someone does this and it works!) 1) Develop a machine that performs a CAT scan of the document without opening it at very high resolution. 2) process the high resolution 3D images captured to determine the ink patterns on each page. 3) OCR the individual pages to recreate the original text Simple, Right? clint From zmerch at 30below.com Wed May 12 17:07:42 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990512180742.009b2dc0@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Don Maslin had spoken clearly: > A few days ago, I undertook to install a Maxtor XT2190 (that had > previously been used in a PC running DOS) in my VAXStation 2000. I > brought up T 70 and, to my relief and joy, it scanned the disk and > declared it an RD54! The relief came since I was not at all sure that > I could come up with all of the data that T 70 requires when it goes > into query mode. Is there a program that can extract that data from a > 'real' RD54? Not into vaxen (yet) myself, but whilst I was searching the web, I found this page which seemed like it could be very helpful... http://www.s3.kth.se/~lha/VAX And I also found this: What follows is a list of hard disk data. The columns contain the following information: COMPANY maker of the hard disk NAME name of the model UNFO unformatted capacity in MByte FORM formatted capacity in MByte. Note that this may depend on sector size STPRTE average step rate or seek time in ms SZE size (5.25 inch, 3.5 inch or 2.5 inch) HGT height (FH or HH for 5.25, exact value for other sizes) INTRFACE interface. MFM and RLL go with a ST506-interface, SCS2 means SCSI-2 CYLINS number of cylinders (or total number of sectors) HDS number of data surfaces PRECMP precompensation IBMTYP typ for IBM AT and compatibles PWR typical power consumption BUFFER buffer size built into the drive in KByte AP Autopark function (T means Yes, N or F mean Not available) MADEUNTL year this drive was last manufactured Maxtor,XT2190,0,155,28,5.25,FH,,0,0,,0,0,,,, Which I found here: http://www.spock.mem.net/computer/text/harddisk.txt And there's also this one for lotsa drive specs: http://www.alaska.net/~zumwalt/Drive_Ide/Hdd_specs.txt I hope this helps you! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From elvey at hal.com Wed May 12 16:58:36 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Making copies of Docs was: --H/Z89-- In-Reply-To: <199905122147.PAA18359@ws2044.colorado.cirrus.com> Message-ID: <199905122158.OAA29930@civic.hal.com> clintw@colorado.cirrus.com (Clint Wolff) wrote: > > Proposal for copying really OLD documents (I get a royalty if someone > does this and it works!) > > 1) Develop a machine that performs a CAT scan of the document > without opening it at very high resolution. > > 2) process the high resolution 3D images captured to determine > the ink patterns on each page. > > 3) OCR the individual pages to recreate the original text > > Simple, Right? > > clint Hi Most documents can be opened to about 90 degrees. What does them in is flattening them on a copier. One could build a lens assembly that would go on top of the copier that would allow one to place the original on top with only a 90 degree bend. The size of the optics is the main issue here. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 16:35:05 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905121811.OAA24452@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 12, 99 02:11:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1058 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/07c198d3/attachment.ksh From max82 at surfree.com Wed May 12 16:07:50 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: BASIC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >It sure makes me feel old :-). The second language I ever learnt was >line-numbered BASIC. [The first? SC/MP machine code :-)] In every BASIC I've seen, the numbers of the lines don't matter, as long as they're in ascending order. 678 PRINT "HELLO" 792 GOTO 678 is as good as 1 PRINT "HELLO" 2 GOTO 1 Was this always the case? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 12 17:51:31 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 stuff Message-ID: <199905122251.AA03358@world.std.com> < Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the < drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I < need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. < I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? < < - don Yes. Why do you require VMS5.5-2? MV2000 with 5.5 on it if you do the VMStailor correctly should leave about 100,000 or so free blocks (block=512bytes) on a RD54. The thing to attack is the libraries (there are several for most of the major layerd languages and they are BIG). Without tailor and with DECwindows you will have around 40-60,000 blocks free. Even at that it's still useful! Hint, two VS2000s networked and one with trimmed libraries(any anything else) work real well as one can use the net to make up for the missing stuff. With the right cable a MV2000 can also power and talk to a second RD52/53/54 with plenty of space then available. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 12 17:51:42 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: BASIC Message-ID: <199905122251.AA03457@world.std.com> <678 PRINT "HELLO" <792 GOTO 678 < from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 10, 99 10:34:26 pm Message-ID: <199905122303.QAA06691@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Tim: Thanks for the info. I've been busy with the work of the trip, hence my tardiness. The cards seem like a find indeed. I have them put aside and told the guy I'd be back by Friday. I may just put potential buyers (I've had about ten replies) in touch with the place directly, let them pay him directly and arrange shipping that way. I'm giving preference to those who actually own an old system that could use the spares. One guy wants to buy them for investment value! That goes against my grain. I'll keep the list posted as to what's happening. -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Wed May 12 18:09:25 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: [PDP8-Lovers] *** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available *** In-Reply-To: from "Robert Lash" at May 10, 99 09:02:25 pm Message-ID: <199905122309.QAA09349@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Bob: Thanks for the info on the old DEC boards. I have the cards set aside at the store. I'll keep the list advised of what's happening. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From roblwill at usaor.net Wed May 12 20:57:03 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted Message-ID: <01be9ce3$e59af6c0$829ba6d1@the-general> When I had cleaned out my TRS-80 (was sitting on floor in basement when septic tank backed up), I used a 40lb paint sprayer (air), with a cleaning nozzle on it. I put the suction tube into a bottle of Windex, and it worked great. I rinsed them by swishing them in a tub of warm water. To dry the board, a dish rack and old hairdryer (hood type)with the heat off, work wonders. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Board Cleaning Opinions Wanted >On Tue, 11 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > >> On Tue, 11 May 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: >> >> > Thanks to everyone who offered advice; something I was thinking >> > was to use warm water, and some dishwashing liquid. Does that >> > seem safe? >> >> Maybe, maybe not, depends. >> >> Why is it that most of the manufactueres used something like if not a real >> dishwasher that every one is scared off here? > >Good question! The only circuit cards that I would have any hesitation >about would be those with pots/trimpots and perhaps variable capacitors >installed. The possible problem there being getting them really dry. > > - don > >> My experience is with more than several hundred s100, multibus, Qbus, >> Omnibus and misc non-bus cards over 20 years of doing this it's never been >> a problem other than to insure the water is completely dried off the >> board. This does not include my expereince with marine equipment that has >> had a swim in salt water (hint salt eats boards!). >> >> > I'll leave the corestacks alone (well, I'll use a soft brush to >> > remove the dust from the *outside* of the 'sandwich'). >> >> The core stacks themselves if there were even a hint of something nasty >> on them they'd get washed carefully, it's the fine wire I worry about. >> Generally the sense and driver boards are ok to machine wash. >> >> Allison >> >> >> > > From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed May 12 18:20:24 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:00 2005 Subject: Univac pix Message-ID: <199905122320.TAA05866@platy.cs.unc.edu> I've got the first few pix of my Univac online now. Here's the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/ Cheers, Bill. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 18:13:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: No, it's an H/Z89 was: Re: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905122147.PAA18359@ws2044.colorado.cirrus.com> from "Clint Wolff" at May 12, 99 03:47:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1915 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990513/eeff6f18/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 18:21:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Making copies of Docs was: --H/Z89-- In-Reply-To: <199905122158.OAA29930@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 12, 99 02:58:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 677 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990513/dfa8da54/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed May 12 19:38:22 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 12, 99 07:35:09 pm Message-ID: <199905130038.RAA12698@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990512/a270fd57/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 12 20:38:14 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <199905130038.RAA12698@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at May 12, 99 05:38:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990513/8b699614/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed May 12 22:23:53 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: <199905122251.AA03358@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > < Standalone Backup I loaded VMS 5.5 and the Mandatory Update on to the > < drive. I want to bring VMS up to v5.5.2, but do not know whether I > < need load both v5.5.1 and then v5.5.2 or whether just v5.5.2 is enough. > < I presume that this is done as an Update using VMSINSTAL. Correct? > < > < - don > > Yes. Why do you require VMS5.5-2? Not really sure that I do. Just seemed like the thing to do - getting the 'finishing touches'. Don't really have any information on what it provides. > MV2000 with 5.5 on it if you do the VMStailor correctly should leave about > 100,000 or so free blocks (block=512bytes) on a RD54. The thing to attack > is the libraries (there are several for most of the major layerd languages > and they are BIG). Without tailor and with DECwindows you will have around > 40-60,000 blocks free. Even at that it's still useful! > > Hint, two VS2000s networked and one with trimmed libraries(any anything > else) work real well as one can use the net to make up for the missing > stuff. With the right cable a MV2000 can also power and talk to a second > RD52/53/54 with plenty of space then available. That is a possibility to consider. - don > Allison > > > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed May 12 22:32:31 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Upcoming Haul: DEC Gear and Documentation In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990504192720.0076a040@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: >Looks like various LSI 11s, spare parts, boards, docs. Peripherals include >9 track and (likely) DAT tape, RD53 and RD54 drives, some SMD drives. Vaxes >are of the Microvax III type. Full set of VMS docs, version 4.x. Also an >optical disk drive, unknown make/model, WORM type, about 18" platters. A >total of about 4-5 systems. Any chance of me getting in on the VMS docs and an RD54 or two? I need info for my MVaxII and another drive for it would be nice. =-) Let me know. Anthony Clifton From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 12 23:53:07 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: *** Possible Rare DEC Cards Available *** In-Reply-To: <199905122303.QAA06691@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 1999, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > I'm giving preference to those who actually own an old system that could > use the spares. One guy wants to buy them for investment value! That goes > against my grain. Yeah, screw that! I'm glad you are taking the stance that they should go to someone who will use them. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu May 13 00:24:35 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Univac pix In-Reply-To: <199905122320.TAA05866@platy.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990512222435.00f87940@agora.rdrop.com> At 07:20 PM 5/12/99 -0400, you wrote: >I've got the first few pix of my Univac online now. >Here's the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/ Now THAT is darn near too cool for words! B^} Congrats! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu May 13 01:56:15 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 12, 99 07:35:09 pm Message-ID: <199905130656.XAA16312@saul3.u.washington.edu> > I would argue that just about _all_ Acorn machines were interesting and > on-topic: The ancestry is roughly : > > `Systems' (19" racks of cards) -> Atom -> BBC micro -> Archimedes -> RiscPC. Those Systems sound interesting too! Did they have 6502s or something else? > The Electron is an offshoot of the BBC micro family IMHO. I can see your point -- the Atom is small because it's a precursor to the BBC micro, but the Electron is small because it's a shrunken mutated BBC micro. The parallels between Acorn and Apple are very interesting -- the Atom and original Apple ][ were more or less on equal footing (in terms of RAM and ROM sizes and the capabilities of their BASICs). The Atom grew into the BBC micro and the ][ grew into the ][+ though I think the BBC micro surpasses the ][+ in terms of capability. The Master and //e both had to deal with limited address space, add new features, and maintain backward compatibility. Again the Master is more powerful than the //e. On the other hand, the Master's memory map is much more convoluted than the //e's. I'm not going to try to force the Electron, Apple //c, Apple ///, or the later machines of either company into the analogy though. > > you a copy. Other than that, I can't help you, 'cause I'm looking for > > information (and maybe a machine or two) myself! > > What info do you need? I have a couple of shelves of manuals for Acorn > machines... My main sites for documentation have been: http://members.magnet.at/marku/bbc.htm http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/ Unfortunately the Advanced User's Guide for the Model B isn't done yet, and the graphics are missing from the regular User's Guide. The Master documentation is excellently done, however. Right now I only have a few questions. - Acorn seems to have made a lot of peripherals and also produced slightly "tweaked" models (e.g., the model B and B+, the BBC Master and Master Compact and some kind of Master Econet terminal, not to mention ROM revisions). Do you know of an authoritative catalog from them? - Was the source to the MOS ever released or reverse-engineered? It's very well documented but there are some undocumented features. (One example came up in the discussion of the Torch Z-80 card. It involved interrupts at power-on time, I think.) How about the source or disassembly for BASIC? - The Proton _is_ the same as the BBC micro, right? Some Web sites seem to disagree on this! As for finding a machine, I thought there was a place in London selling them new but I haven't checked yet. Thanks, -- Derek From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed May 12 22:22:25 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: References: <199905110516.BAA00673@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 11, 99 01:15:43 am Message-ID: <199905130722.DAA03124@smtp.interlog.com> On 11 May 99 at 19:00, Tony Duell wrote: > > The Sound board ( interesting because the main chip was labelled "Sound", with > > An AY-3-8910 / AY-3-8912 / AY-3-8913 by any chance? > Yep, an AY-3-8910 > > only a couple of other numbers ) has one resistor setting free like the guy had > > some problems and was trying to correct it . there's some burn where it and the > > next resister were connected > > How is this sound board connected to the rest of the machine? Is it > plugged into one of the expansion connectors? > > -tony > It has a 10pin connecter plugging into part of an expansion connector and another 10 line cable hard-wired to the Serial I/O card. BTW I see by Hans list that it was manufactured in 78. Didn't realize it was that early. Are there programs out there for it ? Could it use CP/M 2.2 ? Were H-87 external drives commonly used on this machine ? I found the ffd about a block away 2 wks. earlier, but someone could have taken the H-89 and then decided they couldn't use it. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From mikeford at netwiz.net Thu May 13 01:55:28 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 11, 99 11:16:19 pm Message-ID: >I don't know why you're worried. It can't be worse than shipping them >unprotected... I go hot and cold as time rolls by, but I can't really think of ANYTHING I have zapped via static. I buy boards and ram simms out of plastic bins, keep two wrist grounding straps safe in my desk never opened, unplug things with power on, etc. Maybe it is the coastal foothills of SoCal with that nice humidity most of the time that saves me. I say sneeze on it, and ship it. ;) From mbg at world.std.com Thu May 13 05:39:03 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Upcoming Haul: DEC Gear and Documentation Message-ID: <199905131039.AA28199@world.std.com> >Looks like various LSI 11s, spare parts, boards, docs. Peripherals include >9 track and (likely) DAT tape, RD53 and RD54 drives, some SMD drives. Vaxes >are of the Microvax III type. Full set of VMS docs, version 4.x. Also an >optical disk drive, unknown make/model, WORM type, about 18" platters. A >total of about 4-5 systems. And where is this happening? Need any help? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cfandt at netsync.net Thu May 13 06:30:06 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention In-Reply-To: <37386118.5C6285A3@rain.org> References: <003101be9b71$c3ada760$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <4.1.19990513071810.00a9b550@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:55 AM 5/11/99 -0700, Marvin said something like: > >I haven't heard anything about people going to Dayton except for Ethan. Not >sure how to get in touch with anyone there, but I will be speaking at the >ARDF forum Saturday morning and plan to compete in the foxhunt in the >afternoon. There are no current plans to get together and I will be out of >email contact for a few days. It should prove to be an interesting time, and >I plan on killing off the swap area Friday :)! Hi Ethan, Marvin and others who my be there: I've suddenly been able to shift my skeds to come to Dayton too. I'll be staying at my uncle's house over in Xenia. He's been asking me for years to come down for that event. He's a computer enthusiast, not a collector though. Instead of me taking my mother down to her sister's place in Lexington, KY on the 18th, I talked her into going down today and I go back up to Dayton area which is only 2-3 hrs north of Lex. So, Friday I'll be lurking in the fleamarket to catch those DEC docs and other needed bits plus some needed items for my radio collection. Not much money to spend though :( But, at least I'll see this event which I've heard about for decades :) Don't know how to connect as I'm not a ham at present. If my cousin-in-law, who will be working at the Hamvention, is near I'll have him call over the public rptr. freq. Good luck with your shopping! I gotta hit the road now! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu May 13 06:14:49 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Atari modem In-Reply-To: <199905081931.PAA26453@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On 08-May-99, Lawrence Walker wrote: >On 8 May 99 at 4:31, Doug Spence wrote: > The XF551 is getting hard to find, one of the few Atari 8bit >peripherals I'm looking for. Most Atari 8bit peripherals are hard to find, at the stores I visit. I'm going to see if I can widen my scavenging base, but with only bus or bicycle for transportation, it's a little difficult with me living way out in the 'burbs. I basically only visit a few places close to the university. The XF551 that I have is the only one I've ever seen. Same for the 1050 and 810 drives, the XC12 Program Recorder, and the CX85 Numeric Keypad. The only things Atari 8bit that I see with reasonable frequency are Atari 400 and 800XL computers, and the 410 Program Recorder. I have come across a couple of Atari 800 computers, but both were damaged and so I didn't haul them home (something I regret now). Of course, I run across plenty of Atari VCS systems. :) >> As for disk transfers, I can do that with my handy-dandy A1020 drive >> on my Amiga. It reads and writes several Atari 8-bit formats just >> fine, including 810 (SS/SD) and XF551 (DS/DD?). > > Hmm have to check that out. Yes, if your Amiga's 5.25" floppy drive is connected to the Amiga's floppy controller, you should be able to do the same thing. The program for doing this is on aminet:misc/emu/551conv.lha IIRC, you have to mount the 5.25" drive as an Amiga volume first. The program will work with Kickstart 1.3 (according to the docs), and best of all it's Freeware. :) Too bad source code is not included. [re: the modem] >Just checked my Blue Book. The 835 seems like the likely candidate. >The only Atari modems they mention are the accoustik 830 which required >an RS232 port and the 835 direct connect which didn't. OK, the 835 is probably it then. >Compatible w Bell 103/113 series modems.full and 1/2 duplex 300 or 1200 >bps Power on and C-D LEDs . Excellent! It's nice to have 1200bps. The most famous of the local Atari BBSes survived until the early '90s with only 300bps. :) Where did the modem plug in? Cartridge port? SIO? [re: Atari 8bit disks] >There are quite a few sites with images available. I guess I haven't looked. I should do that before someone decides to crack down on 'piracy'. >ciaolarry > >lwalker@interlog.com -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu May 13 08:12:42 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention Message-ID: <19990513131242.28305.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christian Fandt wrote: > Upon the date 09:55 AM 5/11/99 -0700, Marvin said something like: > > > >I haven't heard anything about people going to Dayton except for Ethan... > > Hi Ethan, Marvin and others who my be there: > I've suddenly been able to shift my skeds to come to Dayton too... Cool. > ...So, Friday I'll be lurking in the fleamarket to catch those DEC docs > and other needed bits... These days, there's not much DEC stuff. When I started going in 1982, you could find things on maybe as much as 5% of the tables. Now, it's much less than 1%. In any case, I'll be at work in Columbus on Friday. I'm only going on Saturday. Later, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From jfoust at threedee.com Thu May 13 09:15:35 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990513091535.01017dd0@vpwisfirewall> To put myself to sleep the other night, I was thinking about the recent discussions about core memory, and I remembered a wire delay line memory I'd once disassembled as a teen, and thought about the old mercury delay line memories, and then moved it to the Internet. Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend with the possibility of dropped packets, which might invalidate the entire experience. But like the "unused" CPU cycles on your PC, there is a great deal of unused bandwidth. Not everyone's pipe is full, and these pipes are a form of transient memory. Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring packets back to my machine. By taking advantage of the delays in transmitting packets around the world, across fiber lines, under the sea, up to satellites, etc. wouldn't we create a long delay line with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? - John From steverob at hotoffice.com Thu May 13 09:41:54 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? Message-ID: <01BE9D2D.383921B0.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Thursday, May 13, 1999 10:16 AM, John Foust [SMTP:jfoust@threedee.com] wrote: > > To put myself to sleep the other night, I was thinking about the recent > discussions about core memory, and I remembered a wire delay line memory > I'd once disassembled as a teen, and thought about the old mercury delay > line memories, and then moved it to the Internet. > > Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend > with the possibility of dropped packets, which might invalidate the entire > experience. But like the "unused" CPU cycles on your PC, there is a > great deal of unused bandwidth. Not everyone's pipe is full, and these > pipes are a form of transient memory. > > Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply > pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring > packets back to my machine. By taking advantage of the delays in > transmitting packets around the world, across fiber lines, under > the sea, up to satellites, etc. wouldn't we create a long delay line > with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing > like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? > > - John > Clever... Steve Robertson - From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu May 13 09:52:41 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? Message-ID: <19990513145241.2252.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > > ... the other night... I remembered a wire delay line memory > > Sure, it would be abusive of the Net's resources. You'd need to contend > with the possibility of dropped packets... > > Imagine a chain of machines or routers or whatever that would simply > pass a special kind of packet to another machine, echoing and mirroring > packets back to my machine. > > ...wouldn't we create a long delay line > with large data capacity? Obviously the speed of access is nothing > like a hard drive or RAM, but it would be a neat hack, no? This very concept came up for lengthy discussion when I was in college at Ohio State. Then, we envisioned using UUCP to store and forward two weeks of data, based on the known propagation rates from node to node (since some would forward messages only after 23:00 to save on toll charges). We never implemented it, but we did have a theoretical model that probably would have worked. As you say, access times were hell, but you could store lots of data if you absorbed hard drives all over the planet. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From jfoust at threedee.com Thu May 13 09:57:16 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? In-Reply-To: <19990513145241.2252.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990513095716.00fd8eb0@vpwisfirewall> At 07:52 AM 5/13/99 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >This very concept came up for lengthy discussion when I was in college at >Ohio State. Then, we envisioned using UUCP to store and forward two weeks >of data, No hard disks necessarily involved - just the latency of the network. You're right, though, imagine using hard disks as cache to increase the latency, only passing along the packets when the outgoing pipe seemed empty. Long latency reminds me of early cable modem data systems, where information was regularly recycled every few hours, and you could tell your receiving software what to grab the next time around. - John From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu May 13 09:57:59 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Spring CP/M-UG (Oregon) Swapmeet coming up! Message-ID: Just so you can't say I never tell you people anything... B^} ---------- Yes, Once Again.... It's time for the... Grand Floral Swapmeet Who: CP/Mug. (yeah, we're still here.) What: Computers, Audio, Video, High-Tech, Low-Tech, etc. When: Saturday, June 12, 1999, 8:00 AM to 2:00 PM. Where: Tigard Senior Center in Tigard. 8815 SW Omara Tigard, OR Admission: FREE! Rules: There are no rules, except no leaving things. (NO Garbage Service!) Fees: There are no fees, except we'll beg. Reservations: There are no reservations. Setup: Starts at 8:00 AM. Be early for best position, NO reservations!. Bring a table, if you have one. Bring a ground cloth if it's sunny, and display on the lawn. Tailgating is encouraged and quite effective. Sales: Starts at 8:00 AM. Be early for the best deals, volunteer to help shlep the stuff. Whimper, Whine, etc.. Feel free to denigrate vendors tawdry wares... Shutdown: Doors get locked at 2:00 PM. Contact: Gary at Oregon Electronics, 503-239-5293 -- Gary Grossoehme - GaryG4430 "at" aol "dot" com Oregon Electronics - 503-239-5293 935 NE Couch St. - Computer Cable Specialists Portland, Oregon - Member: AfterBurner Fan Club. ---------- -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu May 13 10:09:12 1999 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? Message-ID: >> This very concept came up for lengthy discussion when I was in college at >> Ohio State. I think it's one of those things that crops up now and then. We had a similar one here at work whereby we were going to expand our token ring network to create a fatter 'token doughnut' system. Implementation, sadly, was never started, but the theory was there... (it's amazing what you can achieve during boring moments at work!!) cheers Jules From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu May 13 13:23:11 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990513095716.00fd8eb0@vpwisfirewall> References: <19990513145241.2252.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <199905131624.SAA01863@horus.mch.sni.de> > >This very concept came up for lengthy discussion when I was in college at > >Ohio State. Then, we envisioned using UUCP to store and forward two weeks > >of data, > No hard disks necessarily involved - just the latency of the network. > You're right, though, imagine using hard disks as cache to increase > the latency, only passing along the packets when the outgoing pipe > seemed empty. Long latency reminds me of early cable modem data > systems, where information was regularly recycled every few hours, > and you could tell your receiving software what to grab the next > time around. The idea is nice, using the net like a bubble memory, but capacy is rather small, since any delayed loop storage is determinated by bandwidth and trip time. Let's just assume we have a 1 Mbps connections (full dupelx), so we can send (and recive) 128 KBytes/s. If we now add a delay time for roundtrip of eight seconds (prety high - 1s would be more realistic), we just get along with 1 Mega- byte of storage. As you see, the limit itn't the net (and the possible net resources to use), but rather the bandwidth of our connection. And dont tell me you would open more 'storeage connections' to expand - we have already assumed the full bandwidth of our 'memory interface' - you can't put more data in. Ethans solution of derefered methods is more usable, since it would enhance the latency time - even if we assume a pure memory based solution (no mail buffer on HD), we can come up with several minutes of delay (but in fact, all mail servers will use temp HD storage - but hey, /temp isn't considered as disk - it is just always to small :). Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 13 11:34:04 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC References: <19990512150306.29782.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <373AFEFC.7FD3@mcmanis.com> Line numbers were only "needed" when you didn't have an editor, they gave one the ability to replace lines in place by reusing their line numbers. It was quite elegant actually. If you edit your BASIC source code separately you only need targets for GOTO and GOSUB commands (which can be numbers or in cases like AmigaBASIC letters). I wrote a version of BASIC in Java that closely models BASIC-80 (aka Microsoft BASIC) and its available on my web site (and in a web browser window if you're patient.) --Chuck (http://www.professionals.com/~cmcmanis/) Ethan Dicks wrote: > Not only BASIC without line numbers, but *classic* era BASIC - AmigaDOS 1.1 > shipped in 1986 with AmigaBasic (not the older ABasic of which I know little) > and it does not require line numbers. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 13 11:48:20 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention References: <003101be9b71$c3ada760$0100c0a8@fuj03> <4.1.19990513071810.00a9b550@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <373B0254.20A1@mcmanis.com> I'm here in Dayton as well (long story) but I'll be around Friday and Saturday scouring the flea markets... From jfoust at threedee.com Thu May 13 12:17:15 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? In-Reply-To: <199905131624.SAA01863@horus.mch.sni.de> References: <3.0.5.32.19990513095716.00fd8eb0@vpwisfirewall> <19990513145241.2252.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990513121715.010219f0@vpwisfirewall> At 06:24 PM 5/13/99 +1, Hans Franke wrote: > >The idea is nice, using the net like a bubble memory, but capacy >is rather small, since any delayed loop storage is determinated >by bandwidth and trip time. No, capacity is limited by the total latency, isn't it? If we arranged a long chain of computers that did nothing but relay packets, the latency time goes up. A packet might take an hour to return for "regeneration". Yes, write speed is limited by your outgoing connection. Read speed is dependent on the round-trip time. Data capacity of the entire chain is linked to the transmission speeds, but other factors as well. Do I have this right? >If we now add a delay time for roundtrip of eight seconds (prety >high - 1s would be more realistic), we just get along with 1 Mega- >byte of storage. You're estimating based on 'ping' or 'traceroute' times, but I'm talking about deliberately maximizing the delay between computers. That raises the storage with every link, no? - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu May 13 13:14:59 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Univac pix In-Reply-To: <199905122320.TAA05866@platy.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990513131459.22574d0e@intellistar.net> Geez! And my wife complains about my two Altairs and the Tektronix 4051 sitting in the living room!! Joe At 07:20 PM 5/12/99 -0400, you wrote: >I've got the first few pix of my Univac online now. >Here's the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/ > > Cheers, > Bill. > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu May 13 14:32:58 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <373AFEFC.7FD3@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <199905131733.TAA03657@horus.mch.sni.de> Date sent: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:34:04 -0700 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Chuck McManis To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC > Line numbers were only "needed" when you didn't have an editor, they > gave one the ability to replace lines in place by reusing their line > numbers. It was quite elegant actually. If you edit your BASIC source > code separately you only need targets for GOTO and GOSUB commands (which > can be numbers or in cases like AmigaBASIC letters). I wrote a version > of BASIC in Java that closely models BASIC-80 (aka Microsoft BASIC) and > its available on my web site (and in a web browser window if you're > patient.) > --Chuck > (http://www.professionals.com/~cmcmanis/) NEAT! (I'm just missing peek/pook to browse the internas :)) Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu May 13 12:39:51 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Univac pix In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990513131459.22574d0e@intellistar.net> from Joe at "May 13, 1999 01:14:59 pm" Message-ID: <199905131739.MAA04110@thufir.cs.umn.edu> > Geez! And my wife complains about my two Altairs and the Tektronix 4051 > sitting in the living room!! > > Joe Very well, since you're twisting my arm Joe... I'll take the two Altairs off your hands.. You'll have to find someone else to take the Tektronix (I think I have one of those, minus the monitor, that i'm using as a TV stand. I used to use it for a computer desk.. Nice adjustable keyboard tray, now i put my VCR on that tray..) -Lawrence LeMay From bill at chipware.com Thu May 13 13:00:50 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <373AFEFC.7FD3@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <000001be9d6a$8940eba0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> I remember when I upgraded the ROMs in my C1P and got a RENUM command. Ah, those were the days. Bill Sudbrink From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu May 13 15:04:48 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990513121715.010219f0@vpwisfirewall> References: <199905131624.SAA01863@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199905131805.UAA04596@horus.mch.sni.de> > >The idea is nice, using the net like a bubble memory, but capacy > >is rather small, since any delayed loop storage is determinated > >by bandwidth and trip time. > No, capacity is limited by the total latency, isn't it? If we arranged > a long chain of computers that did nothing but relay packets, the > latency time goes up. A packet might take an hour to return for > "regeneration". Yes, write speed is limited by your outgoing > connection. Read speed is dependent on the round-trip time. > Data capacity of the entire chain is linked to the transmission > speeds, but other factors as well. Do I have this right? Yes and No - maybe we should clarify terms. a) round trip time (rt)- the time uses until one pice of information (packet) is returned - for calculation it is enough to use an (hypothetical) average time b) access time (at) - access time defines the time needed to access a specific data unit within the storage - the access time has no influence on storage capacity. c) storage capacity (s) - maximum amount of data to be stored at a given moment in time d) bandwidth (f) - the amount of data that can be send/recived within a given time (at this definition level bandwidth and storage capacity is equal, but to help calculation we should specify given time to be 1s at all calculations) These terms should be incooperated as following: I) s = rt * f - since you can only put a continous data stream of f data units for one period of rt until you need _all_ f for refresh II) at(min) = 0 at(avg) = rt/2 at(max) = rt or 0 <= at <=rt Since rt and f are given (exterior) values, they have to be assumed. Looking at these numbers, you might come to the conclusion that s is the only number needed to describe the system and s is strict dependant to rt and f. (please excuse my missing English on mathematical terms). Followin this, we may insert your names (as I have understood them): latency ^= round trip time (rt) write speed ^= bandwidth (f) read speed ^= access time (at) See the confusion ? > >If we now add a delay time for roundtrip of eight seconds (prety > >high - 1s would be more realistic), we just get along with 1 Mega- > >byte of storage. > You're estimating based on 'ping' or 'traceroute' times, but I'm > talking about deliberately maximizing the delay between computers. > That raises the storage with every link, no? even then, 8 seconds is _pretty_tough_. given an average switching time of .2 seconds it needs 40 hops - transmission time can be ignored at this stage, since we can't name the data amount - and transmission time is amount dependant. As soon as you like to have longer delay times, you _need_ explicite storage inbetween (remember, even a satalite linke is just .2 seconds round trip) - and you won't have a lot on your chain - satelite lines are a NoNo for (modern) hige speed interactive connections. Gruss H. And for the naysayers, I assume this on topic, since it on topic for the basics of delay dependant storage. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 13 16:08:39 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905130722.DAA03124@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 13, 99 03:22:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990513/453836dd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 13 16:17:03 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 12, 99 11:55:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1034 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990513/53760164/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 13 16:34:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <199905130656.XAA16312@saul3.u.washington.edu> from "Derek Peschel" at May 12, 99 11:56:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4354 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990513/13019fd7/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu May 13 17:59:26 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: FS: Compaq Portable II computer. Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990513175926.484790b4@intellistar.net> Hi, I just picked up a couple of Compaq Portable II computers that I thought I'd pass along to anyone that's interested. These are the second model and have an 8 MHz 286 CPU with one floppy drive and one (factory) 20 Mb hard drive. They're in the original travel cases and both the computers and cases are in nearly perfect conditon. The original power cord is even still in it's storage compartment. Works PERFECTLY!!! No screen burns, bad keys, etc. I'll take $50 each plus shipping from 32765. No manuals. Contact me directly if interested. Joe From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu May 13 16:52:16 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <000001be9d6a$8940eba0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> from "Bill Sudbrink" at May 13, 99 02:00:50 pm Message-ID: <199905132152.OAA32079@saul10.u.washington.edu> > I remember when I upgraded the ROMs in my C1P > and got a RENUM command. Ah, those were the > days. There were two common tricks that renumber commands never dealt with: 1) storing line numbers in variables and GOTOing or GOSUBing them, e.g., GOSUB MYSUB 2) computing line numbers at the time of GOTO or GOSUB, e.g., GOTO (X+3)*35 Did the C1P let you do either of those tricks? -- Derek From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 13 18:23:35 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? Message-ID: <199905132323.AA06615@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199905132359.QAA03180@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > You could either link both the internal drive and the external drive(s) > to the same controller or do what was done in my machine and have the > internal drive on one controller (hard sectored) and the external drives > on another controller (soft sectored). > > FWIW, I have the schematics for the Z-87 should you need them. > > -tony Hi Years ago, I bought two half height drives and put them in the slot for the full sized. I used just the single controller to drive both and it worked with HDOS as two drives. I'd have to look to see if I did it with twisted lines or jumpers on the drives. I did have to file the opening a little to take two drives. Dwight From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 13 20:13:31 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: Derek Peschel "Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 12, 23:56) References: <199905130656.XAA16312@saul3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <9905140213.ZM14049@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 12, 23:56, Derek Peschel wrote: > - Was the source to the MOS ever released or reverse-engineered? > It's very well documented but there are some undocumented features. > (One example came up in the discussion of the Torch Z-80 card. > It involved interrupts at power-on time, I think.) The bits that people tend to regard as "undocumented" are mostly the bits avbout how the interface to a second procvessor (The Tube (TM)) work. But there are documents that Acorn used to supply on request that describe the Tube, and the Sideways ROM protocols, etc. I have them. > How about > the source or disassembly for BASIC? There wasn't a good listing of BASIC. There were two books published by third parties, but one wasn't very good, and the other was written by someone whom Acorn knew well, and they persuaded him to drop it before many were sold. Why? Mainly because it was very specific about addresses of routines that were going to change in the next version. It would have been quite misleading in places. "The Advanced BASIC ROM User Guide" by Colin Pharo, pub. Cambridge Microcomputer Centre. "The BASIC ROM User Guide" by Mark Plumbley, pub. Adder. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu May 13 20:04:43 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 13, 22:34) References: Message-ID: <9905140204.ZM14040@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 13, 22:34, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) > You can trace links between the Atom and the Systems (Same bus, for > example). And between the Atom and the BBC micro (Some of the > non-standard parts of Atom BASIC turn up on the Beeb). The electron is > obviously related to the Beeb. But I would claim that the Arch was also a > BBC descendant. And thus the Electron is an offshoot of the main line of > machines. The Beeb video architecture is very similar to the Atom (but more modes, more colours, more resolution), the disk system is almost identical, the sideways ROM system is similar, Econet is the same, user port/VIAs are the similar, etc. But they're all rolled together on the Beeb, and there's lots more. There were a few other "specials" like the Communicators built for Reuters, looked like a Compact but had a different processor (the one that's based on a 6502 but is 16-bit), and a built-in modem. The Arc (not Arch, please :-)) was certainly built from the same philosophy as the Beeb, and had some similarities in things such as screen modes, I/O handling, OS entry points, etc. And like the Beeb, was well-documented. > > micro and the ][ grew into the ][+ though I think the BBC micro surpasses > > the ][+ in terms of capability. The Master and //e both had to deal with > > The Apple wins on hardware expandability (there are no expansion slots on > any model of Beeb). The Beeb (IMHO) wins on a more powerful BASIC, better > video system, more standard I/O ('User port, ADC, etc were all standard > on the BBC micro, and properly documented in the user manual). Both are > interesting machines. The Beeb is also several times faster, largely due to the fact that I/O is interrupt driven, and there's no polling overhead; also most I/O is properly buffered and streamed. What's wrong with the 1MHz bus for expansion? There were lots of devices that used that, including a backplane system, and lots more that fitted (sometimes in ingenious, and not always wonderful, ways) inside the case. > No definitive list, alas. I can tell you the ones I remember : > > BBC A, BBC B, BBC B+, BBC Master. Master Compact. US models of some of those > (certainly there's a US version of the B). > > Some of those had 'professional' versions, or were available as PCB only > for use in embedded systems. The Master PCB was available separately as an OEM item. There was a series of Acorn Business Machines, which were based on the B+ board, in a big case which included colour monitor, B+ board, two 5.25" drive bays, second processor, and had a separate keyboard and (for some models) a mouse. There was one with a Z80, CP/M, floppies; one with 80286, floppies, MS-DOS (or maybe it was DR-DOS), and one with a 32016, 4MB RAM, hard drive, and one floppy. That was the only one that actually survived past the launch; it became the Acorn Cambridge Workstation. There was a also a pair of Springboard cards for PCs -- ISA cards with an Arm on them. They differed only in the amount of memory, one was 1MB but I can't remember if the other was bigger or smaller (4MB comes to mind, but I might be wrong about that). They were basically a second processor for a PC -- they used the PC's I/O -- meant for development work, and provided with an editor, assembler, and a couple of compilers. They were sold by the OEM division and not very many were made. > Second processors for the BBC (not the internal ones for the master) : > 65C02, Z80, 32016, ARM 1, 80286 (never released?) > > 80816 card for the Master (other master copros?) 4MHz 65C102 (Master Turbo), 4MHz Z80 (external only), 32016 (external only, I think; Master Scientific), 80186. The Z80 wasn't a new design, it was the same old Z80 as before. The others were new designs, and the Turbo and 80186 were available either as an internal PCB, or fitted in a box like the original second processors. There was also a short-lived Master ET. It was a Master 128 case and PCB minus disk interface, minus some of the firmware, fewer standard I/O ports, and limited expansion, but with the (otherwise optional) Econet networking hardware fitted. A sort of diskless workstation. > Peripherals in 'second processor cases' : Prestel modem, teletext > adapter, GPIB interface, Econet bridge. > > Winchester (SASI) hard disk system. [Torch (IIRC) made a SCSI system as > well.] Acorn's used an Adaptec ACB400 which is definitely SCSI-1, not SASI. I think Torch's was SASI -- and it never worked very well, I seem to recall. Its protocol was sufficiently different to the Acorn standards that lots of stuff wouldn't work with it. > > - Was the source to the MOS ever released or reverse-engineered? > > Never released, and I've never seen a reverse-engineered version :-( Yes they were. I have two separate copies of the source/commentary for the MOS. They were issued at Acorn training courses, which were run for dealers and developers. There were a range of courses, and I went to one of the MOS courses run by Paul Bond (who was the major designer of the MOS). It was a fascinating course. > > It's very well documented but there are some undocumented features. > > (One example came up in the discussion of the Torch Z-80 card. > > It involved interrupts at power-on time, I think.) How about > > the source or disassembly for BASIC? Software interrupts. The Torch Z-80 does it badly wrongly, which is why it screws up several other add-ons. At power up, various service calls are offered to all the ROMs in turn, and the Torch Z80 uses one of them for an unintended purpose. it also claims one it shouldn't, instead of passing control back correctly. > > - The Proton _is_ the same as the BBC micro, right? Some Web sites > > seem to disagree on this! > > Yes. No! The Proton was a design for the successor to the Atom, and that was the design initially shown to the BBC when they started to canvas for material for what became the Microcomputer Project and the "Making The Most of The Micro" TV series. The BBC asked for, and got, several major changes, and the BBC Micro was quite a bit bigger and more complex than the Proton would have been. The proton was more like the Atom than the Beeb. > > As for finding a machine, I thought there was a place in London selling them > > new but I haven't checked yet. There was a batch of machines that turned up from the U.S. at one point, so beware that they are a different spec (video timing, mostly, but also a different ROM) and I think there was a batch came back from Germany. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 13 20:03:11 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: <199905132152.OAA32079@saul10.u.washington.edu> from "Derek Peschel" at May 13, 99 02:52:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 649 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990514/7ef157f8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 13 20:14:42 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? In-Reply-To: <199905132359.QAA03180@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 13, 99 04:59:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 941 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990514/78709c88/attachment.ksh From bill at chipware.com Thu May 13 20:40:18 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC Message-ID: <199905140138.SAA31975@mxu2.u.washington.edu> > > I remember when I upgraded the ROMs in my C1P > > and got a RENUM command. Ah, those were the > > days. > > There were two common tricks that renumber commands never dealt with: > > 1) storing line numbers in variables and GOTOing or GOSUBing them, > e.g., GOSUB MYSUB > > 2) computing line numbers at the time of GOTO or GOSUB, > e.g., GOTO (X+3)*35 > > Did the C1P let you do either of those tricks? I'll have to stretch my brain, as all of my stuff is behind a stack of drywall just now. Hmmm... I don't seem to remember doing either of those tricks. The Microsoft 8K BASIC in ROM was pretty simple... I'm sure that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong. Bill Sudbrink From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 13 20:36:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <9905140204.ZM14040@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 14, 99 01:04:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4920 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990514/56b5c9ae/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 13 20:43:44 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Z-100 find ? Message-ID: <199905140143.AA14115@world.std.com> < Years ago, I bought two half height drives and from "Pete Turnbull" at May 14, 99 01:13:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990514/8927dde8/attachment.ksh From max82 at surfree.com Thu May 13 19:52:06 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: mystery motherboard Message-ID: I heard of a person who was doing 'computer recycling' at a nearby school running into a strange motherboard with 3 386 chips and a 286. Does this sound familiar to anyone, and if I should look at this as a potential source of interesting systems? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From stanp at storm.ca Thu May 13 21:14:11 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Mystery board and drives References: <19990510231314.35C932120C@iaehv.iae.nl> Message-ID: <373B86F2.64C8F3E9@storm.ca> kees.stravers@iae.nl wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 1999 01:09:26 GMT, pete@dunnington.u-net.com said: > >On May 9, 16:40, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > >>They are indeed 2 * 50 pin headers, with a 4 position switch between them... > >>Another reply suggests it would be Unibus... > >When I have time, I'll dig out my TC02 manual -- I guess the switches will > >be similar. I'm still of the opnion this TU03 is Q-bus. Does it have an > >empty DIL socket near one of the edge connectors? Does it have a couple of > >other switch packs? (I'm wondering how much like my TC02 it is.) > > How about you both compare your boards to mine? Maybe they look the same. > http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/vfg/tc02.jpg As it turns out this board looks the same as the TC03.... Thanks!! <> Stan From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 13 22:02:55 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:01 2005 Subject: Low level formatting DSSI disks with KQSFA? Message-ID: <373B925F.2A7E@mcmanis.com> Anyone know the procedure? Can it be done? Do I need some special diagnostic program (do vaxes run XXDP?) --Chuck From mbg at world.std.com Thu May 13 22:22:53 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Low level formatting DSSI disks with KQSFA? Message-ID: <199905140322.AA19759@world.std.com> >Anyone know the procedure? Can it be done? Do I need some special >diagnostic program (do vaxes run XXDP?) I forget if they can be formatted, but I do know that they can be erased and scanned... but you need to have something which speaks DU Protocol (DUP)... if you have a uVaxII or uVaxIII, you have what you need... You have to use one of the maintenance commands from the uVax console... One of the commands of the form SET HOST/MAINT/UQSSP/SERVER n where n is the number of the UQSSP port. Once the DUP starts up, it will prompt for a command or filename... type DIRECT and it will give you a listing of what is available. Some drives have different numbers of programs available, so try what looks obvious. BTW - the DUP protocol is essentially a protocol which causes the VAX and the KFQSA to exchange packets of text. You type something, it is packetized and sent to the KFQSA where it is passed to code running in the disk. The output of that code is passed back to the VAX in a packet. I don't know of anything else which speaks it (unless there is something on the user test TK50 under MDM). And it is a proprietary protocol, so I can't explain the specifics. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu May 13 23:11:08 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: WANTED: VMS Orange Wall In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990504192720.0076a040@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: Greetings All, As I've been unable to find one locally, does anyone on the list have a VAX/VMS Orange Documentation "Wall" in Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Illinois or Missouri that they'd like to be rid of? I'd be happy to drive and get it. Thanks... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu May 13 23:43:00 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: New-fangled languages (was: BASIC In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 14, 99 02:03:11 am Message-ID: <199905140443.VAA14617@saul9.u.washington.edu> Tony Duell wrote: > > > I remember when I upgraded the ROMs in my C1P > > > and got a RENUM command. Ah, those were the > > > days. > > > > There were two common tricks that renumber commands never dealt with: > > Are you suprised? To do that is decidedly non-trivial.... Anyway, a lot > of BASICs, including most (all?) Microsoft ones don't allow computed line > numbers like this. ON...GOTO existed, but renumbering that is quite easy > (and was normally done by a renumber command). No, I'm UNsurprised. I wouldn't expect _any_ renumber program to deal with the complicated cass. I suppose the problems could be solved, but only by completely analyzing the programs in the worst case (which is pretty difficult even now). I just wanted to point out that BASIC line numbers or renumbering routines have this weakness. -- Derek From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 00:05:06 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: WANTED: VMS Orange Wall In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990504192720.0076a040@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: >Greetings All, > >As I've been unable to find one locally, does anyone on the list >have a VAX/VMS Orange Documentation "Wall" in Iowa, Nebraska, >Minnesota, Illinois or Missouri that they'd like to be rid of? >I'd be happy to drive and get it. > >Thanks... > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead I'm curious as to why you are looking for the Orange Wall specifically. Personally I prefer a combination of the Grey System Manager's Manual, and "Mastering VMS". For basic tasks I find them easier to deal with than the 7.2 Hardcopy docmentation. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mmcmanus at direct.ca Fri May 14 00:31:19 1999 From: mmcmanus at direct.ca (mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Spring CP/M-UG (Oregon) Swapmeet coming up! References: Message-ID: <001e01be9dcb$020d4aa0$448d42d8@mmcmanus> Where is Tigard from Portland? ----- Original Message ----- From: James Willing To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 7:57 AM Subject: Spring CP/M-UG (Oregon) Swapmeet coming up! > Just so you can't say I never tell you people anything... B^} > > ---------- > > Yes, Once Again.... It's time for the... > > Grand Floral Swapmeet > > Who: CP/Mug. (yeah, we're still here.) > What: Computers, Audio, Video, High-Tech, Low-Tech, etc. > When: Saturday, June 12, 1999, 8:00 AM to 2:00 PM. > Where: Tigard Senior Center in Tigard. > 8815 SW Omara > Tigard, OR > > Admission: FREE! > > Rules: There are no rules, except no leaving things. > (NO Garbage Service!) > > Fees: There are no fees, except we'll beg. > > Reservations: There are no reservations. > > Setup: Starts at 8:00 AM. Be early for best position, > NO reservations!. > Bring a table, if you have one. > Bring a ground cloth if it's sunny, and display on the lawn. > Tailgating is encouraged and quite effective. > > Sales: Starts at 8:00 AM. Be early for the best deals, > volunteer to help shlep the stuff. Whimper, Whine, > etc.. Feel free to denigrate vendors tawdry wares... > > Shutdown: Doors get locked at 2:00 PM. > > Contact: Gary at Oregon Electronics, 503-239-5293 > > -- > Gary Grossoehme - GaryG4430 "at" aol "dot" com > Oregon Electronics - 503-239-5293 > 935 NE Couch St. - Computer Cable Specialists > Portland, Oregon - Member: AfterBurner Fan Club. > > ---------- > > -jim > --- > jimw@computergarage.org > The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives > > >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! > > From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 14 00:32:01 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at May 12, 99 11:55:28 pm Message-ID: >I have seen this happen. Anti-static precautions are not something >invented by marketroids at companies that sell anti-static bags. Static >damage _is_ a real problem. > >> keep two wrist grounding straps safe in my desk never opened, unplug things >> with power on, etc. Maybe it is the coastal foothills of SoCal with that >> nice humidity most of the time that saves me. I say sneeze on it, and ship >> it. ;) > >If I get anything new that hasn't been properly anti-static packed, it >goes back for a refund, even if it works. I then buy from a company who >takes this a little more seriously. The basic purpose of most packaging is to keep the consumer from reliably assessing the true contents before purchase, and making returns "seem" more difficult on any opened items. The latter is the reason I alway ship in static packs regardless of the condition of the goods when I get them. OTOH except for special cases I generally stand behind everything I sell, and check it fairly carefully. From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 14 02:35:16 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: static bags In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at May 12, 99 Message-ID: >>I have seen this happen. Anti-static precautions are not something >>invented by marketroids at companies that sell anti-static bags. Static >>damage _is_ a real problem. >> >>> keep two wrist grounding straps safe in my desk never opened, unplug things >>> with power on, etc. Maybe it is the coastal foothills of SoCal with that >>> nice humidity most of the time that saves me. I say sneeze on it, and ship >>> it. ;) >> >>If I get anything new that hasn't been properly anti-static packed, it >>goes back for a refund, even if it works. I then buy from a company who >>takes this a little more seriously. > >The basic purpose of most packaging is to keep the consumer from reliably >assessing the true contents before purchase, and making returns "seem" more >difficult on any opened items. > >The latter is the reason I alway ship in static packs regardless of the >condition of the goods when I get them. OTOH except for special cases I >generally stand behind everything I sell, and check it fairly carefully. BTW I didn't mean my "latter", I meant his "latter" as in people taking static bags as a sign of quality and taking things seriously. Shrinkwrap is required for my latter. ;) From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri May 14 07:03:05 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: GRiD Compass 1101 now online! Message-ID: COWABUNGA!! My beautiful new GRiD Compass is now online! The keyboard seems to need a little bit of cleaning or working-in, sometimes keypresses don't register. This thing automatically loads up a VT100 emulator when I turn it on. Does anyone know anything about GRiD-OS? I think it was version 3.something. I'll verify that later. I'm just SOOO happy that the Compass works! I'v been wanting to at least _see_ one in operation since I first read the review in... I'm not sure... January 1984 Creative Computing? (No, I think that was the Gavilan.) I'm going to have to poke around some more. I just wanted to dial in with the thing and make this announcement. :) (It's hard to find a provider that will accept a 1200bps conection these days, huh?) So... GPIB is the same as IEEE-488? Anyone got an adapter cable for GRiD-to-CBM? :) YES!! Plasma display AND bubble memory in ONE machine! -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri May 14 07:31:35 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: GRiDCASE 1500 Series Message-ID: OK, now on to my _other_, less successful GRiD find yesterday... I picked up a GRiDCASE "1500 Series" computer. It looks very similar to the Compass that I'm typing on, but with a larger screen, 3.5" floppy drive on the right hand side, standard PC ports, and mushy keyboard. Anyway, when I turn it on, the *fantastically beautiful* 10.5" (diagonal) display reads: Phoenix 80286 ROM BIOS Version 3.06 GRiD Systems Corporation 3/17/88 640K Base Memory, 00384K EMS Memory Time-of-day clock stopped - please set current time A green LED comes on, next to the label reading "Lower/External disk in use". It sits there for a while, then beeps with the message: Hard Disk Diagnosic Failure Strike the F1 key to coninue OK, so this looks like a clock battery gone dead, making the machine forget the setup. I tried booting up with a 720K MS-DOS floppy, but that didn't work. There was a slight noise, and the "Upper disk in use" light came on momentarily, but it didn't boot. It went back to the other light and evntually complained about the hard drive again. Unless this thing uses some kind of Stealth Hard Drive, there doesn't seem to be a hard drive in there at all. No HD noises. Also, there is a lift-up trapdoor above the keyboard. Opening it reveals two empty 32-pin sockets. So, how the heck to I crack the case on this thing? The only screws I could find with a cursory inspection were the four screws under the carrying handle. How do I get to the suspected dead battery? -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri May 14 07:39:40 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T1200 battery pack Message-ID: I also picked up a Toshiba T1200 laptop yesterday. The battery has no charge, and I couldn't find the power supply, so I don't know if it works yet. The battery pack has a switch on it. What is this for? Currently it is switched to show red. What is the polarity of the 12V DC connector on the back of the machine? -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri May 14 07:51:06 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Epson Equity LT-286 setup Message-ID: I dropped by my old place of work yesterday, lugging my GRiDs and Toshiba laptop (and I'm still in pain). The accountant has a laptop that he wanted me to look at. It looks to me like there's nothing wrong with it except a dead CMOS battery. How do I get into the setup of an Epson Equity LT-286? And what kind of battery does it need? I tried most of the usual setup suspects. Does it require a setup progam on floppy? It was a 2nd hand machine and the owner doesn't have any disks for it or manuals (just the machine, power supply, and nice carrying case). -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri May 14 09:17:29 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures Message-ID: <19990514141729.7399.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> In the past two weeks, someone posted some URLs to PDP-8/e pictures. The one I'm interested in was a full-screen, high-detail front panel shot. I was thinking of snagging it and sticking it on a one-off T-shirt to wear around the Dayton Hamvention as a "Wanted" poster with the classiccmp address at the bottom. Does anyone remember this recent posting? Alternately, does anyone have a good front panel pic that I can use? My -8/e is behind a wall of other stuff including a couple of straight -8's (as yet unrestored). I suppose I could capture the output from Doug Jones' xpdp emulator, I think a real photo would look nicer. Thanks, -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri May 14 09:41:06 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures In-Reply-To: <19990514141729.7399.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > In the past two weeks, someone posted some URLs to PDP-8/e pictures. The one > I'm interested in was a full-screen, high-detail front panel shot. I was > thinking of snagging it and sticking it on a one-off T-shirt to wear around > the Dayton Hamvention as a "Wanted" poster with the classiccmp address at > the bottom. Does anyone remember this recent posting? Alternately, does > anyone have a good front panel pic that I can use? That sounds cool. If the URL does not pop up, drop me a note and I'll set my digital camera loose on the task... > My -8/e is behind a wall > of other stuff including a couple of straight -8's (as yet unrestored). ?!?!?!? A COUPLE?!? You dog! I'd trade some SERIOUS goodies for ONE! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 10:23:54 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Spring CP/M-UG (Oregon) Swapmeet coming up! In-Reply-To: <001e01be9dcb$020d4aa0$448d42d8@mmcmanus> from "mike" at May 13, 99 10:31:19 pm Message-ID: <199905141523.IAA00474@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990514/f6bd2184/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri May 14 10:29:05 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures In-Reply-To: <19990514141729.7399.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> from Ethan Dicks at "May 14, 1999 07:17:29 am" Message-ID: <199905141529.PAA21311@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > In the past two weeks, someone posted some URLs to PDP-8/e pictures. The one > I'm interested in was a full-screen, high-detail front panel shot. I was > thinking of snagging it and sticking it on a one-off T-shirt to wear around > the Dayton Hamvention as a "Wanted" poster with the classiccmp address at > the bottom. Does anyone remember this recent posting? Alternately, does > anyone have a good front panel pic that I can use? My -8/e is behind a wall > of other stuff including a couple of straight -8's (as yet unrestored). > > I suppose I could capture the output from Doug Jones' xpdp emulator, I think > a real photo would look nicer. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > I switched to using a smaller scan on my web page. The image you're referring to is still available at: http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/pdp8e_100.jpg A smaller image is available, just change that 100 to a 60. If you want a more detailed scan, or a tiff image, let me know. This scan is from a letter sized landscape advertizement, and that PDP8/e pretty much fills the whiole page. So, these are actually very low resolution scans (100 and 60 dpi). -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri May 14 13:02:04 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> I just picked up a Copmaq Portable PLUS (DM 35), a Portable III (DM 40), an Intelevision (DM 20, German Version with German manuals :) and a MacSE FDHD (DM 15). Happy Happy Joy Joy. Is there any site with information on the Compaq Portabele III ? I couldn't find any page with usefull info. Thanks Hans P.S.: Time is comming for the anual early summer vacation, so I will be starting in California on May 19th, and find my way to Florida until mid of June - any tips along the route (SF/LA/LV/Denver/.../Housten/.../Orlando) ? Any special event to adjust the route ? -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri May 14 12:06:16 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures Message-ID: <19990514170616.16568.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- James Willing wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > In the past two weeks, someone posted some URLs to PDP-8/e pictures. The > > one I'm interested in was a full-screen, high-detail front panel shot... I got a couple of good ones, thanks. One is the one I was thinking of, the other is a user's shot of his own machines with the lights going. > > My -8/e is behind a wall > > of other stuff including a couple of straight -8's (as yet unrestored). > > ?!?!?!? A COUPLE?!? You dog! I'd trade some SERIOUS goodies for ONE! As I've written before, one of these is the exact one from the photo on the back cover of the large-format "CPU Wars" comic. Both of them were originally phototypesetters from the Columbus Dispatch. There's three racks of S and R cards below the CPU in each rack that I'm told is probably the I/O circuitry for the typesetting hardware. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri May 14 13:31:45 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Compupro computer questions In-Reply-To: <990508123618.2540014c@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990514133145.216fe96e@intellistar.net> Hi, I finally brought home the Compupro CPU box. I'm surprised how clean it is. It looks like new. The only thing I found wrong so far is one wire broken off of the backup battery holder. Here's what's in it: 21 slot backplane, #194 Disk 3 card (hard drive controller), Disk 1A card (5 1/4 and 8" floppy drive controller), #187 Interfacer 4 card (parallel and triple serial ports), #162 System Support 1 card (serial port to terminal, interupt controller, RTC, Math Co, 4K SRAM, etc), CPU 8085/88 card (both 8088 and 8085 CPUs), #816 RAM 22 card (with 256K SRAM), two RAM 23 cards with 128K SRAM each. I dug through my manuals and found manuals for the Interfacer 4, RAM 23, CPU 8085/88 and System Support 1 cards. I still need manuals for the chassis, RAM 22 and both disk controller cards. BTW I have extra copies of the above 4 manuals. I'll trade them for the manuals I need. At 12:36 PM 5/8/99 -0400, you wrote: >> I picked up a Compupro 816 computer yesterday and an external drive unit >>with a hard drive and an 8" floppy drive. I haven't brought it home yet so >>I haven't taken more than a quick look at it. Can anyone tell be about the >>computer and drive? What CPU, speed, etc. What kind of operating system it >>uses, etc. > >If it's using the same CPU's it shipped with, it has a 8085A and a >8088A on a 85/88 CPU board. Speed is 2 or 5 MHz, depending on what >the big red switch labeled "SPEED" on the CPU board is set at. There's no red switch or anything marked "speed" on this card. FWIW the CPUs are 8088-1 and D8085AH-1. > >Of course, it's a S-100 box, so just about anything could have been >dropped in at either the factory (special-order), the Compupro dealer, >or by the end user. > >Typically the system either ran CP/M-80, CP/M-86, or a special >Compupro version that was basically CP/M-86 but would also run 8-bit >executables on the 8085. > >There were many aftermarket CPU's available, some with 80286's on them >and 8 MHz Z-80's, that were commonly dropped into Compupro chassis. > >> I don't see a keyboard or video connectors so I assume it needs >>a terminal to talk to it. > >Very likely, yes. Most likely, it has a System Support 1 board >with console serial port, clock, and interrupt controllers. But there >are lots of other ways to set up a S-100 system. > >> Does any have a pinout of the serial port so I >>can make a terminal cable. > >Look for a 25-pin cable from the System Support 1. It's plain old >RS-232. Depending on which OS and version you run, and how it was >generated, you might need to assert DTR. > >> What size is the hard and floppy drives > >You tell us :-). A Compupro 816 most likely shipped with a Qume >Datatrack DSDD 8" floppy drive, a bit over a Megabyte, most likely >hooked to a Disk 1 (or 1A or 1B or 1C) controller in the S-100 chassis. >The hard drive is likely a MFM drive, anywhere between 5 and 30 Megabytes, >hooked to a Disk 3. Again, just about anything was orderable/configurable. I haven't brought home the drive box so I don't know what's in it yet. > >> does >>the floppy drive use hard sectored disks, etc etc, etc. > >Almost certainly soft-sectored disks. > >> I noticed that >>there are connectors for both a 5.25" and an 8" floppy drives and another >>for a hard drive on the back of the CPU box. Does anyone have a manual or >>the OS software for one of these? > >Sure. I bought out the last Canadian Compupro dealer while I was in >Vancouver and have manuals, configuration software, etc. Let us know >what's *in* your box and you'll get more details. OK It's listed above. Thanks. Joe > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri May 14 13:34:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990514133415.3af7b850@intellistar.net> At 06:03 PM 5/14/99 +1, Hans wrote: >I just picked up a Copmaq Portable PLUS (DM 35), a >Portable III (DM 40), an Intelevision (DM 20, German >Version with German manuals :) and a MacSE FDHD (DM 15). > >Happy Happy Joy Joy. > >Is there any site with information on the Compaq Portabele III ? I haven't found one but what do you want to know? I have several of them and I have an owner's manual. Joe From bill at chipware.com Fri May 14 13:16:41 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Great day! (OSI) Message-ID: <000401be9e35$ea43cdc0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> Just arrived in the mail: C4P (in beautiful physical condition, unknown operational condition) In the original box! (not expected) with (also not expected): The full C4P/C4PMF SAMs! If you have C4P/C4PMF questions that might be answered by the SAMs, let me know. I'll try to help. Bill Sudbrink From fpp at concentric.net Fri May 14 14:51:15 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (Paul Passmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T1200 battery pack Message-ID: <001b01be9e43$224cab80$2ef8adce@paul> >The battery pack has a switch on it. What is this for? Currently it is >switched to show red. Usually was used to indicate if it was charged. You moved switch to red after you replaced the pack with a charged one; to indicate it needs a recharge. Like camcorder batteries that have the same feature. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri May 14 11:15:23 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Epson Equity LT-286 setup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905142014.QAA15612@smtp.interlog.com> On 14 May 99 at 8:51, Doug Spence wrote: > > I dropped by my old place of work yesterday, lugging my GRiDs and > Toshiba laptop (and I'm still in pain). > > The accountant has a laptop that he wanted me to look at. It looks to me > like there's nothing wrong with it except a dead CMOS battery. > > How do I get into the setup of an Epson Equity LT-286? And what kind of > battery does it need? > > I tried most of the usual setup suspects. Does it require a setup progam > on floppy? It was a 2nd hand machine and the owner doesn't have any disks > for it or manuals (just the machine, power supply, and nice carrying > case). > > -- > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > You've been quite busy since finishing U. I envy your Grid finds. I picked up an EE 286 a while back which the previous owner had hard-wired for an external supply. The AC connector had been trashed. It's a real pain to get at the batteries. In mine there was what looked like 5 C-cell sized batteries wrapped in plastic with no external markings. Can't remember if I found anything on the Epson site. I set it aside for later repair or cannibalization cause there were many faults. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri May 14 11:15:25 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> References: Message-ID: <199905142014.QAA15662@smtp.interlog.com> On 14 May 99 at 18:03, Hans Franke wrote: > I just picked up a Copmaq Portable PLUS (DM 35), a > Portable III (DM 40), an Intelevision (DM 20, German > Version with German manuals :) and a MacSE FDHD (DM 15). > > Happy Happy Joy Joy. > > Is there any site with information on the Compaq Portabele III ? > I couldn't find any page with usefull info. > > Thanks > Hans > I found a bunch of stuff on the Compaq site including a diagnostic program, specs, and POST codes. Can't find the URL right now but it's there if you dig around. Portable II and III stuff. Can't remember if there was also Plus info. ciao lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 12:32:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: GRiD Compass 1101 now online! In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at May 14, 99 08:03:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1130 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990514/f58f9e56/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 12:35:08 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Toshiba T1200 battery pack In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at May 14, 99 08:39:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990514/23bc30d0/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 14 02:31:52 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 14, 2:41) References: Message-ID: <9905140831.ZM14335@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 14, 2:41, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) > > The bits that people tend to regard as "undocumented" are mostly the bits > > avbout how the interface to a second procvessor (The Tube (TM)) work. But > > The Tube hardware wasn't that well documented either. It was based round > a ULA which wasn't covered in the Advanced User Guide... Well, the ULA wasn't in the Beeb but in the add-on, so that's not so surprising. Most of the other addons aren't well documented (or even mentioned) in the AUG. Don't forget that, although the authors had a lot of moral support from Acorn, they had no official backing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 14 02:27:51 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 14, 2:36) References: Message-ID: <9905140827.ZM14329@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 14, 2:36, Tony Duell wrote: > Pete wrote: > > The Beeb video architecture is very similar to the Atom (but more modes, > > more colours, more resolution), the disk system is almost identical, the > > Not really. The Atom is based on a 6847 (and uses the address generator, > display data path, character generator, etc of that chip). There is some > memory associated with the display system only. > > The Beeb uses a 6845 to generate display addresses in main memory. The > video path is mostly in a custom chip ('Video ULA'), with the character > generator (only used in the Teletext mode, Mode 7) in an SAA5050 chip. > > I would not call those 'similar'... Don't confuse the implementation with the architecture. Sure, the Beeb uses an SAA5050 for one (of eight) modes - but the others work in a way very similar to the Atom. Actually, very little of the video path is in the ULA on a Beeb. It contains the DACs and the palette only. > > The Arc (not Arch, please :-)) was certainly built from the same philosophy > > The 'h' is silent, but most references to that machine call it the Arch... Not those I've seen. All the Acorn people I know (and I know lots, don't forget I worked in that world for ten years) use "Arc". > The fact that the processor runs at twice the speed (2MHz) in the Beeb > helps as well :-) Agreed. But it's about 4 times the speed of an Apple ][, which runs at 1MHz. > > properly buffered and streamed. What's wrong with the 1MHz bus for > > expansion? There were lots of devices that used that, including a > > Nothing at all. It's just that the Apple was easier to make cards for > than the Beeb (where you have to provide an external PSU and case (you > shouldn't attempt to power external devices from the BBC PSU). The switch mode PSU (not the linear "adapter and exploder" used on the first batch) has quite a lot of spare capacity (about 2A at 5V), and an external output connector. It was *designed* to power external devices (mainly disk drives, but it is perfectly capable of powering other things too). And there are power connectons on some of the device I/O connectors including the Tube and User Port. > I was under the impression that the Acorn host adapter didn't support > multiple masters, and was thus better classed as a SASI host... Many early SCSI systems didn't. It does, however, support CCS. > > think Torch's was SASI -- and it never worked very well, I seem to recall. > > Torch did 2 versions. The common one was SASI, and wasn't that good. > There's also a much rarer SCSI unit (the ROM for it is called SCSIfs). It > works pretty well. I didn't know about the later one, I admit. > > MOS. They were issued at Acorn training courses, which were run for > > dealers and developers. There were a range of courses, and I went to one > > of the MOS courses run by Paul Bond (who was the major designer of the > > MOS). It was a fascinating course. > > OK, it wasa never available to %random-user.... Or to be more specific, I > couldn't get it :-) They did cost money (though not an awful lot), so yes, they wouldn't attract the average enthusiast, but a lot of them were attended by teachers and school technicians. > Well, the original 'proton' never existed as a production machine AFAIK. Yes, only as development prototypes, as far as I know. I never saw one, only pictures (and I'm not sure they weren't mockups). > But the name was certainly used - and used in Acorn documentation - as a > code name for the BBC micro. For example the diagram 103,008 is called > 'Circuit Diagram for the Proton Final Test Jig', and is the final test > jig for the BBC micro (or at least a machine with identical 1MHz bus, > printer port, user port, analogue port and cassette port). Yes, but Acorn staff had a habit of reusing names on diagrams that were redrawn. It doesn't mean that that board was actually a Proton board by then, although it must at least have started life as one. > In fact the > 103 identifies it as being a BBC-micro related product (The BBC micro > schematic is 103,000). 102 series schematics are for the Atom, 100 series > for the Systems (101 is for what?) I dunno -- 104 is teletext adapter, 108 6502 2nd processor, 109 is the Z80, 115 is Prestel, I think. 107 is the 1MHz bus backplane. 101 might be one of the Econet products, I suppose, or the original proton number series, or an OEM device. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From scctv at cruzio.com Fri May 14 18:01:57 1999 From: scctv at cruzio.com (Laura Greenfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! Message-ID: <009c01be9e5d$c4de4240$888ae3a5@lauragre> Greetings! Anyone out there looking for a PDP-11/23+ ? We just posted one on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104284274 Hope this is the correct venue for this. Laura time-warp on eBay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990514/f61714fa/attachment.html From chemif at mbox.queen.it Fri May 14 20:44:38 1999 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Univac pix Message-ID: <199905150144.DAA10847@beta.queen.it> At 19:20 12/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >I've got the first few pix of my Univac online now. >Here's the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/ > > Cheers, > Bill. Hi Bill, I've visited yr. URL and auot the page http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/giorn1.jpg you wrote: >This came from a web page in Italy. I think the accompanying article says something >about the first computer used in some school in Italy. >Unfortunately, I don't read much Italian, and Babelfish didn't >do so well either. But Bill, I'm here :-) ...just ask! It's true, the article is used in this website (the school's website) as proof of being (since 1970) the first Italian school (not university) equipped with a computer. MESTRE is "VENICE on earth" = is the small city that connects Venice-on-water with the continent. There they have schools, offices, houses, etc. that in Venice are not possible or effordable. "Zuccante" is the name for this school that is a technical engineer school with a training course for programmers. Briefly the article explained the new chance offered by this school to the student-workers with evening (after work) courses that allowed to get the degree in "computer science engineering". The aim of the article's author was to convince the readers about the advanced equipment in school's laboratory and the importance of the outcoming new profession:computers programmer Curiosity: The author wrote that the new development was the "new disk and tape system that is capable to expand the memory of the central unit, allowing the warehousing of thousands of useful processing data" ^^^^^^^^ In the reality Mr. Luciano Tagliapietra (the man in the picture that was the UNIVAC technician), tells that despite what was written in the article, those expansion units where never bought by this institute, because in 1973 that kind of computer with only 16 Kb memory and the need of air conditioner, was considered at the sunset. >Since there is more machinery in this picture than I've got, I wonder if I have a >whole machine. Hmm, I can't tell what Mr. Tagliapietra is handling in the picture, but the rectangular opening in the top of the first machine with the slope, seems to be a card reader. Probably the other was a big puncher? Ciao Riccardo Romagnoli I-47100 Forl? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 18:45:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <9905140827.ZM14329@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 14, 99 07:27:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4584 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990515/f75c340b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 14 18:47:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <9905140831.ZM14335@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 14, 99 07:31:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990515/5da7579a/attachment.ksh From a2k at one.net Fri May 14 19:43:35 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Smashing find! Well, sort of.. Message-ID: This isn't exactly a Univac rescue, but I still think it's kinda cool: For $25 today at a garage sale, I got an Atari 800 with some extra RAM (don't know for sure yet), 1050 disk drive (no disks :( ), Atari 850 Interface (this thing has 4 female serial ports on the back, one parallel port on the side, 2 i/o ports, power switch, light, and power connecter on the front (not exactly a nice place to have all your cables running off... oh well). From what I get from the small amount of documentation, the 850 is just a serial interface.. but there's no modem. I'd REALLY love to use it for that, or at least as a terminal on one of my UN*X boxen... any information would be greatly appreciated. Oh yeah, there were several carts and joysticks.. I made the mistake of letting my dad play with Packman.. we had an 2600 in the 80s... deja vous all over again... didn't see him again for an hour. Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k@one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon@nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Anthony.Eros at digital.com Fri May 14 19:52:47 1999 From: Anthony.Eros at digital.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! Message-ID: To quote from the auction listing: ----------- In doing some research we contacted a PDP/11 veteran with a great micro collection on his website-- The Gentry Collection of Mature Computers This one is being sold untested and strictly as-is. It appears well preserved in it's mamoth housing and rack. If it hasn't been modified it should be similar to the one in that collection and have the following specs: ---------- Looks like Megan's the victim of an eBay gender-bending :-) BTW, what exactly is a "mamoth" housing, anyway?? -- Tony ---------- From: Laura Greenfield[SMTP:scctv@cruzio.com] Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 7:01 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! Greetings! Anyone out there looking for a PDP-11/23+ ? We just posted one on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104284274 Hope this is the correct venue for this. Laura time-warp on eBay From mbg at world.std.com Fri May 14 20:15:25 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! Message-ID: <199905150115.AA00554@world.std.com> >Looks like Megan's the victim of an eBay gender-bending :-) Seems so... >BTW, what exactly is a "mamoth" housing, anyway?? I think it is due to the fact that the people posting are used to PCs and more contemporary machines, and so a pdp-11 in an H960 is MAMOTH to them... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From gregorym at cadvision.com Fri May 14 20:25:13 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Size, weight of a PDP-11/83? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990514192509.006ae60c@cadvision.com> Hi all. Through a lovely bit of serendipity, I've just been offered a PDP-11/83 that's local to me. Before I accept, can anyone help me with the following questions: How big is this classic likely to be? Most PDPs I've seen were refridgerator sized, with washing machine sized disk drives, tape drives, etc. Is that about what I can expect, or is the 11/83 one of the later, smaller 11s? How heavy might it be? Would it be a lifting job for 2? 4? 8? Does it require special power? My home isn't wired for anything beyond household current. Any help would be much appreciated. I'd love to save this machine, but there are limits to my space/money/housemate's patience. Alternatively, if anyone else is in or around Calgary, AB, and would be interested in this machine, e-mail me off list. If I decide not to take it, I can put you in touch with the owner. Thanks in advance. Mark Gregory At 09:15 PM 5/14/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >>Looks like Megan's the victim of an eBay gender-bending :-) > >Seems so... > >>BTW, what exactly is a "mamoth" housing, anyway?? > >I think it is due to the fact that the people posting are used >to PCs and more contemporary machines, and so a pdp-11 in an >H960 is MAMOTH to them... > >:-) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 14 20:38:19 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! In-Reply-To: <009c01be9e5d$c4de4240$888ae3a5@lauragre> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 1999, Laura Greenfield wrote: > Greetings! > Anyone out there looking for a PDP-11/23+ ? We just posted one on eBay. > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104284274 > > Hope this is the correct venue for this. No, in fact its not. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From roblwill at usaor.net Sat May 15 00:27:19 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (the GeNeRaL) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Internet as delay line memory? Message-ID: <01be9e93$99fe17e0$bb9ba6d1@the-general> Wasn't something similar to this discussed earlier when someone had brought up the topic of storing data for 100 years? I think someone mentioned just bouncing the data back and forth between satellites, and just retrieving it whenever it was needed. Although that method would probably have a higher packet-loss rate. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: John Foust To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 7:19 AM Subject: Internet as delay line memory? > >To put myself to sleep the other night, I was thinking about the recent >discussions about core memory, and I remembered a wire delay line memory >I'd once disassembled as a teen, and thought about the old mercury delay >line memories, and then moved it to the Internet. > <><><>sNiP<><><> From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 21:41:48 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Size, weight of a PDP-11/83? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990514192509.006ae60c@cadvision.com> Message-ID: >Through a lovely bit of serendipity, I've just been offered a PDP-11/83 >that's local to me. Before I accept, can anyone help me with the following >questions: Lucky *******! >How big is this classic likely to be? Most PDPs I've seen were >refridgerator sized, with washing machine sized disk drives, tape drives, >etc. Is that about what I can expect, or is the 11/83 one of the later, >smaller 11s? I'd guess the odds are it's in a BA123, hmmm.... about 2'x3'x1'. Of course it could be in a BA23 about 2'x3'x6", or a rack mount (depends in that case). All measurements are rough guesses looking at a BA123, and being to lazy to get a measuring tape out. >How heavy might it be? Would it be a lifting job for 2? 4? 8? BA23 - 1 BA123 - 2 Rack - ?, 1 or 2 can do it by emptying it out >Does it require special power? My home isn't wired for anything beyond >household current. Shouldn't be a problem. >Alternatively, if anyone else is in or around Calgary, AB, and would be >interested in this machine, e-mail me off list. If I decide not to take it, >I can put you in touch with the owner. I wish I was. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 14 21:46:29 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Looks like Megan's the victim of an eBay gender-bending :-) BTW, what >exactly is a "mamoth" housing, anyway?? > >-- Tony Worse they give the specs of Megan's system, not the one they're trying to auction off. Who knows what they're trying to auction off! Wonder if they realize just how souped up Megan's system is. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri May 14 18:35:12 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: core... more In-Reply-To: <199905070243.AA00129@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990514183512.23bf14dc@earthlink.net> At 10:43 PM 5/6/99 -0400, Allison wrote: >Well thanks to John D. I have a bunch of cores from the early 60s. > >They are roughly 50mils x 11 mils x 15mils. Cross section of the doughnut >is rectangular at 15x11 mils. The reason for such rough measurements is my >vernier is only good to .001" and I'd need somthing fancier to be more >accurate. By eyeball the 8e cores are smaller! Based on several articles >I've read theses will need about 400->600ma to switch and will do so in >under 4uS. I will have to test this in a jig. Since the hole is ~20mils >several #40 wires should pass through it easily. > The previous mentioned article in Byte is "Coincident Current Ferrite Core Memories" and is in the July, 1976 Issue. It is very helpful. It describes the support electronics too (x,y drivers, sense, inhibit, and diode steering logic) as the author had an intact core plane assembly, so did the tests for switching currents, etc. on the intact assembly. The x,y drivers used were TI SN75325 H-bridge drivers, on both ends of the x,y lines. Alternate ways of running the sense lines are shown. Typically both ends were terminated with 100 Ohm resistors and fed to a comparator with an adjustable threshold, such as a SN7524. -Dave From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri May 14 22:21:33 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: Disorganised, but interesting. Russian COmputers... Message-ID: <00a101be9e82$0ebd32d0$0df438cb@DAVIE2K> As some of you may know, I'm mad-keen on Russian calculators and computers - see my site Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Although I dropped off this list some time ago, and remain off, I thought I'd write and give a "brief" summary of information to hand. The data here comes from my many Russian "agents", and mostly is the first time that any of this has been presented in the West. It's long, some is missing, but it's really fascinating, no? PLEASE DO NOT POST THIS DATA ON YOUR WEB PAGES. It is my intention to build a site on Soviet computers - to complement my calculator site - and I would be reluctant to ever again share information if the rug is pulled from under me! After all, it takes a lot of time and effort to dig up information. Copying it is easy. I do welcome feedback/questions on this info - I can pass on specific requests to my sources. Before presenting the data, a brief plug - I have two handheld Russian programmable calculators for sale - the MK-85 and MK-85M (both viewable on my site). Please contact me privately, at adavie@mad.scientist.com if you're interested in purchase. Cheers A And now, for the interesting (disorganised) stuff... mostly unedited ------------------ 13.05.99 in our collection Sinclair-compatible of computers one more copy has appeared. Externally it looks so: the system block of weight 6,8 kg with the remote keyboard! It was assembled by the radioamateur in 1993. All local boys played on this computer. I expected, that its appearance will be more aesthetic and beautiful, namely: the keyboard and motherboard in one case with the remote disk drive of 5 inches and separately power unit on 12V and 5V. And there was, that almost all in one box and rather heavy because of a power unit and using of metal for the plating of the case. Besides the buttons on the keyboard are not closed by the decorative panel, there are no labels on 2 buttons, and the system block will not sustain a long road because of bad fastening... But, most important, that all this design works! The machine is connected to a socket SCART of the TV set. And most interesting is made in disk operational system. It refers to as DISK SERVICE. It is very simple in work and is intended only for game use, though probably partial use and for the decision of practical tasks. In a basis of system nonfile architecture, and blocks lays. DISK SERVICE divides a flexible disk into 16 blocks. One game or condition RAM can be stored only in each block which existed in the computer at the moment of pressing the button NMI. Naturally, it is possible to save and to load game, and also to read of directories of a disk! At the moment of recording of game on a disk the machine requests a name of the program and writing it on a disk. At reception a directory the computer looks through each block and gives out the list of games. Due to an opportunity of reception of the list of games (the directory of a disk) DISK SERVICE is better, than DISK MO! NITOR. Besides DISK SERVICE faster loads and reads blocks. On all other parameters it considerably concedes DISK MONITOR, because last has opportunities of the built - in toolkit and debuggings of the programs. Thus in our Russian gallery of microcomputers there are following computers: 1). "Leningrad-1" without the disk drive (is ready to travel to Sydney) 2). "Baltic" with the disk drive and operational system DISK MONITOR (I prepare to sending. I do not like its heavy power unit and unreliability at work with the disk drive - I removing now). 3). "Baltic" with the disk drive and operational system DISK SERVICE. To me has got to it about 49 disks with the information in a format DISK SERVICE. Probably, I should it result in more pleasant condition, to reduce of weight and other. Or to leave all in an initial condition. What do you think in this occasion? 4). Byte without the disk drive. Was let out in Belarus. While I have faulty copy, but, now I undertake efforts on its repair or search of working model. 5). "Anqstrem". In a basis - 13 microcircuits. Somewhere at home at my parents the system board lays. When I shall hold it in hands, ladies acknowledgement(confirmation). But to this payment are necessary still keyboard, case and power unit. And only then it will be the working computer. Besides this payment can be and faulty. What you think in this occasion? When I shall hold her(it) in hands, I shall inform acknowledgement. But to this board are necessary still keyboard, case and power unit. And only then it will be the working computer. Besides this board can be and faulty. What do you think in this occasion? 4. One boy offers me the microcomputer under the name "SPECTR-001". I while think. What this such? It is constructed on the basis of the Soviet 8-digital processor KP580BM80 (western analogue, if not changes to me memory, i8080). 32 kilobytes of the RAM, 2 kilobytes of the RAM. It Is assembled on the basis of the circuit of the microcomputer RADIO RK86 and programs compose to it. RADIO RK86 was developed by the Soviet radioamateurs. Its circuit was published in a magazine "RADIO", released on all territory of the USSR and all radioamateurs could quietly collect the computer on the basis of the publications and recommendations in this magazine. Thus, it was one of the first Soviet official computers assembled on domestic element base. Except for it was still MIKROSHA (circuit was published in a magazine "RADIO") and SPECIALIST (the circuit was published in a magazine "MODELIST-CONSTRUCTOR"). Then has appeared ORION with an opportunity of connection of the disk drive and other m! odels. Approximately in this the Soviet people have opened for self the ZX-SPECTRUM and have made the final choice for the benefit of it... And in the beginning there was a magazine "RADIO" with the circuit RADIO RK86 (86, probably, name of year of the publication of the circuit). Then this circuit began to be realized by an industry with small completions under other commercial names. One of them - "SPECTR-001". ------------- I continue translation of the article " BK - supercomputer " (part 2). " The Greatest damage for BK is put by amateur perfomance of half-competent enthusiasts - rationalizers. And already it is complex to result all park of these machines in the coordinated condition so that all available self-made devices have not turned to monuments of the vainly spent means and health. Nevertheless, we shall try.. WISHING to write the programs for BK - more than it is enough. ABLE it to make too burn by desire to apply the knowledge and skills on more wishing "hard". The enthusiasts already have included the tools and the circuits it long of desired "hard" wait.. So, what the processor 1801BM1 can? If to address to the directories and operation manuals, it is possible to find out the rather interesting items of information: "... The processor 16-bit... Address space 32 K ". And it, perhaps, most unintelligible for amateurs. Because in any textbook on circuitry it is possible to find the formula, from which follows, that 16 categories are 64 K of various addresses... The business here that with the help 16 bit of the bus of the address the processor addresses both to 16 bit of the data, and to the senior half of same data. Therefore 16 bit data (words) have only even addresses (or only half from 64 K possible), and the odd addresses allow the processor to address only to 8 - bit data (senior half of word of the data, or to senior byte). The reference to bytes is necessary for the processor to work with the texts, which symbols are coded in the KOI 7 and 8- bit data. Therefore in the processor one more additional line (17-th) address is stipulated, which allows to address and to younger byte of the data. This line refers to as WTBT (pin 40). That is, actually, the processor 1801BM1 has the 17-bit bus of the address, but two bits of this bus (0 bit of the bus of the address and WTBT) carry out actions essentially distinguished from actions of other 15 bits (1... 15 bit of the address), and we have an opportunity of the reference to 32 K of words of the 16-bit data, and on bytes - and to 64 K of 8-bit words (bytes) The basic mode of the processor: the work with the 16-bit data, therefore processor changes on the bus of the address only meanings in bits 1... 15, and the changes on a line WTBT and in the zero bite of the address occur only with detection in the program or special teams of work to bytes (younger), or with the requirement of the program to address to the odd address (that is to senior byte). It - basic features of the processor 1801BM1, which frequently serve for amateurs familiar on a magazine of "Radio" with the 8-bit processor 580 BM80, source of all misunderstanding. There is at the processor 1801BM1 one more interesting feature: it works with the general (common) bus. That is both address, and the data are transferred by the processor to other microcircuits on the same lines... And I are distinguished signals of the address from signals given only by that first in addition are accompanied by a signal of synchronization SYNC (SYNCronization, pin 41), while last - signals DIN (Data IN - data input,) or DOUT (Data OUT - conclusion of the data, pin 37) and, if necessary, signal WTBT. By anything other these signals from each other do not differ! And if we shall find a method, which will allow some data too to count as the address, the bus of the address is increased by 16 bits! (Repeated procedure - more for 16... Etc.). Thus we shall have an opportunity to be addressed to 231 16-bit words and to 232 bytes or to work from the RAM of volume 2 Gigabytes!!! (Here even by a bag RU7 will not do without!!!) Certainly, such of "gigabytion" for a amateurv, and majority of the professionals-homers is absolute by anything. Therefore to expand the bus of the address on 16 bits shall not be. If to be satisfied by expansion of the bus of the address on 8 additional bits, it will give us an opportunity to address 4 Mbytes. When the processor run out the program, it is consecutive (with absence of branchings) gives out numbers of addresses, since 0 (or from any other = to the address of a beginning of the program). If nothing will prevent, it will reach the latest address 177777, and it will leave on 0 and further will return to that address, from which began. That is the processor will bypass complete "CIRCLE" of addresses. For example, the processor 1810BM86 cannot itself (without the special program) to bypass a complete circle 1 Mb of addressed memory - for it it is same 64 Kb, as for the processor 1801. The part of such address circle by analogy to a geometrical circle usually refers to as as a SEGMENT. However, in the processor BM1 such segment addressation is not stipulated (though there are special microcircuits, controllers, the arbitrators etc., but this exotic is accessible a little). Nevertheless, to organize "artificial" (hardware-software) segmentation for 1801BM1 does not represent any difficulties. As it, as it is strange, is stipulated by the electrical circuit BK-0010! (It is interesting, where that disappeared so provident " the developer ", if instead of expansion the issue BK-0011 is begun composed with 0010 only on a network cord!? The bus of the BK-0010 address is hardware is already divided on 8 segments on 8 Kb or on 4K of addresses in each. Two younger segments occupies the RAM of the user (to which more all claims by critics). Two following are occupied by the screen. And in stayed four the microcircuits of ROM are placed, from which two are least spoiled by rationalizers only: the MONITOR and TEST DIAGNOSTICS (block MCTD). Fortunately for the owners BK-0010, it is possible to neutralize "fruits of rationalization" through a socket of a system bus XT3, and here the owners "advanced" BK-0010.01 was not lucky, they should open the machine to cut the pathes going to the out CE (pin 23) microcircuits of the ROM of a BASIC (of the microcircuit D818 and D819) and to establish a connection from released pins to a pin 23 microcircuits D820, which switching-off the rationalizers were compelled to leave, MCTD differently would not work. (The One who instead of sockets under the ROM in BK-0010 already rigidly has established a BASIC, it is necessary to repeat the described procedure. It is enough to them to take out the ROM from the socket). Though, if yours of BK on a guarantee or you it would not be necessary to enter the conflict " with a rationalization idea ", it is possible anything it to not do. The system "BK+" will work! Only operational system will determine absence of program management in the appropriate segment and independently "will cut down" some and your opportunities." To be continued.. My wife does not support my enthusiasmes for microcalculators and microcomputers. She forces me, that I held outside of an apartment and any stuff "did not collect". She asks, what for to me any old small computers, when I have one present. Andrew! Sometime she will finish me up to temperature of boiling, I shall become angry and I shall throw out either calculators or wife!: -). She should understand, that I and mine calculators is one and too! Love me - love also my calculators.. For now I should work confidentially.. ------------- I continue the translation of the article " BK - supercomputer " (part 3). "Now, if you were reserved in ten microcircuits of any triggers, counters, multiplexers and logic, and to them have 16 cases of memory of any type, it is possible to begin! The whole design will be connected to a socket of a system bus, therefore, certainly, the socket CH063-64/95-24-2 is necessary which enters into a complete set of delivery BK (if you already used it for connection of the printer, it is possible completely dismantle the block MCTD, and microcircuit from it to mount " by the second floor " direct on anyone of ROM of the basic scheme, to bend pins 23 and by establishing the additional switch, as on the circuit given in a magazine " Informatics and training " (90/4, page 72). By the way, to pull cable, as there it is recommended, there is no necessity...) It is best to use microcircuits of series 1533, 555, 176 and 561. With presence of microcircuits only 155 series should be found two bus shapers of a type 1533AP6 (555AP6) or series 580 to not overload the bus A/D. (All system managing signals it is necessary "buffered", for example, by microcircuits 1533LN1, 555LN1 or any logic). Pins of a socket XT3 for A/D00... A/D15 accordingly: A31, B31, B29, B30, B28, A28, B27, B32, B26, A27, B25, A26, B24, A25, B23, B7. On these lines it is necessary to establish Latch of the address. For it it is possible to use two cases IR22, IR23, IR27 (it is possible two cases TM9 and one of TM8 and so on). The address latches a system signal SYNC (pin B22 XT3). It switches off the third condition on an output of the registers of latch of the address. ( If in latch TM8-9 is used, they are reset by a system signal RESET with inclusion BK). The latch of the address is necessary to fix segment, to which the processor addresses to generate all necessary signals and their sequences for interaction of the processor with expansion and for organization of "internal" work of the Expansion. As in BK is hardware there are 8 segments, which to us need to be operated programmly, for it it is necessary to use three hi of the digits of the address: A13, A14 and A15 (other digits operate expansion within the limits of a segment). Segments with RAM of the user and screen is better for not touching. A segment with ROM of the monitor too... It is necessary to remember, that without the monitor BK turns in "well-to-do'hard only"!.. But this segment is used in half of opportunities - only for reading. It is irrational. The ROM 1801PE2 microcircuits are arranged in such a manner that when there is a reference of the processor in their segment and thus the signal of reading (DIN) is active, the microcircuit gives out the data on the bus, and then and signal for the processor RPLY (RePLY - response). With absence of a signal DIN the microcircuit does not react to the address of the segment, and with absence of a signal RPLY the reaction of the processor is rigidly determined: it counts 64 steps of the synchro-generator and works further under the special program of a MISTAKE of the REFERENCE or LAG. That is the segment ROM of the MONITOR is completely free for record: ROM in any way and nothing prevents and cannot be as - or "is spoiled" by signals on the common bus. Therefore we shall establish in this segment one more latch - latch of the data, which will serve (programmly) a command word of "artificial" segmentation or WORD of MANAGEMENT of other segments for their use, similarly to a segment of the monitor, - both for reading, and for record. This latch is similar to latch of the address and differs only by that the signal for latching is formed of a signal of decoding of the reference on record in a segment of the monitor, that is with presence of levels 100 on the hi bits of latch of the address and active level of a signal DOUT (pin B21 of a socket XT3). Then (not later, than for 60 steps of the synchro-generator) the circuit of management should give out a signal RPLY on pin B20 of a socket XT3, differently processor lags." To be continued... ------------- I continue the translation of the article " BK - supercomputer " (part 4). " For what the 16-digit latch of a word is necessary, if we already have agreed to use expansion of the address only on 8 categories? Business that it is meaningful to use the following behind the monitor two segments each separately. And data you see all the same 16-digit. Therefore younger byte of the data we shall use for management of the segment, nearest to the monitor, and senior byte - for management of the following segment. (The latest segment 111 is better by anything, except the ROM MSTD or BASIC to not occupy, as in these microcircuits the automatic blocking is stipulated in the field of addresses of the system registers 177600... 177777 - Any amateur perfomance here, as is spoken, is fraught...). The segments 101 and 110 form two SEGMENTS of ACCESS to the expansion controlled by the processor with the help of the address, which has stayed 13 lines, and system signals. Each of bytes of a word of management allows to include in each of segments of access any of 256 (2 in a degree 8-256) 8 Kb of segments of expansion. (As against the processor 1810BM86, here segments of access are not blocked in any way, therefore transfer of the data from one part of the program in other should be carried out differently). If each of segments of access will use own bank, we shall receive expansion of volume in 4Mb (8K x 256 segments x 2 banks - 4Mb), but if to be satisfied by one bank for both segments of access, we, losing half of volume, receive an opportunity any 8 Kb by blocks of this bank, that is much more attractive, as and 2 Mbytes to fill by any useful data with "poor" periphery are not obviously possible, and hardly it is required to somebody for the "home" purposes. Now we shall look, what we can insert into this of 2Mb bank?.. Even having 16 pieces 565RU7, we use only quarter of volume of this bank. But it is a rather interesting quarter! It makes equally 2 digits words of management. That is, if bank to choose by these quarters, we shall have in bank four SEGMENTS of CHOOSING on 512Kb each. And in each of them we can arbitrary choose blocks on 8Kb or WINDOW. The choice of windows will be carried out with the help of the 6 bits of each byte of a word of management for each of segments of access in any segment of choosing. Where it is necessary to insert these two bits of management of segments of choosing? They should be placed in most younger and in the grown-up bits of each byte of a word of management. Such accommodation will be well coordinated with logic of work of the counter of commands, i.e. with its use for scanning of data in the next windows will not occur switching of segments of choosing. And use for the same purposes of other register will allow to carry out scanning with switching of segments of choosing or without it, depending on desire of the programmer. It is necessary to distribute duties between these segments. " ( To be continued...) I offer to your attention the survey article on some computers of family Sinclair collected in USSR. Review included the basic, most popular models. However, some models, for example, is industrial made, in the review are absent. The facts touching my favourite computer Baltic partially are deformed. On Baltic it is possible to start 3 (!) Operational systems - standard Basic, built - in original Disk Monitor and from disk to load CPM! Besides it is rather easy to connect to it any periphery, though it and does not have the allocated system trunk. Thus, it is interesting, though also rather disputable article. Here it is necessary to remember, that the article is written by the inhabitant of Moscow region. Since 1987, at shop "Pioneer", then on Sokol, in Pokrovsko-Streshnya and still god knows, where in Moscow, and now at station of the underground "Tushinskaya" has appeared about ten basic models Spectrum-compatible PC (personal computers). These models and their various versions make now by basic park household PC in former USSR, due to their simplicity, cheapness and huge quantity of the excellent programs. To a radioamateur, and at times and professional, it is difficult to understand advantages of one models before others, as practically there is no information on subtleties both complexities in setup and operation, and also compatibility with the software. The problem also is, that nowadays, the selling of some models PC has appeared in a circle of interests of their developers. As a rule, the information on such of PC - is advertising, and the shadows parties are not shined. The first mass model has become PC "Moscow". This of PC till now remains by the most high-grade recurrence of model "ZX Spectrum" from the point of view of machine cycles and organization of memory (however it complex in manufacturing and setup, and also requires large number of completions, which are necessary for bringing in). It is necessary also to note, that in the television frame at "Moscow" 312 lines, that corresponds to the standard, instead of 320, as at the majority of other models. Only in this model braking the processor is stipulated with a video-out and reference in addresses with 4000H up to 8000H (16384 - 32767 decimal). However complexities in set-up do PC "Moscow" not enough attractive for beginning radioamateurs. The following step PC was "Baltic" (name has taken place because, that printed-circuit-board and circuit have developed in Vilnius). The basic advantage of this model is the simplicity and high safety in operation. On a printed-circuit-board there are few of corrections, and the computer is simple in adjustment. But the presence of microcircuits K556RT4 and K155RE3 necessary for organization of machine cycles and work of the videoprocessor, which are necessary previously for programming, imposes some restrictions on availability. The rigid organization of machine cycles and essential differences in organization of work of memory, and also increased thereof up to 4 MHz clock frequency of the processor, makes this model less compatible programmly. For these reasons nowadays "Baltic" is distributed a little. By essential step was the occurrence of model " Moscow 128 " (developed, most likely not in Moscow). It is the first model, where is used "transparent" RAM, i.e. the mode, in which processor with the reference to memory is not braked. As the prototype of this model PC " Sinclair 128 " has served. But use of memory in critical modes, and also the absence musical co-processor has made this model by rather poor recurrence. The interface of the printer LX-print and original programmed joystick were stipulated in "Moscow 128" for the first time , connection two of Kempston-joysticks and high-grade TV-RGB an output also is stipulated. Unfortunately, this model has not received distribution because of small quantity of the programs designed only under "Sinclair 128", and complexities in setup shown, as "Failure in RAM". Most mass model Spectrum-compatible PC without the controller of the disk drive has become " Leningrad I ". Its basic advantages: simplicity, cheapness, small quantity of corrections on a printed-circuit-board, repeatability. Because of absence of the worthy competitors this model has got large popularity. Unfortunately, it was necessary to pay for simplicity by bad compatibility. A wrong choice of addresses of ports, and as a consequence - By-effects and complexity of connection of external devices. On a printed-circuit-board the system socket is not stipulated, and to connect any periphery very difficultly. Though the braking of the processor in a cycle Ml (with choosing of a code of the instruction of the RAM) also facilitates mode of operations of memory, but strongly harms to compatibility with the software. Nowadays this model gradually descends from the market, though also its followers are not deprived of many mistakes, admitted in it. the computer "Pentagon" or " Pentagon 48 ", nicknamed so for five-coal distributing of the earthen trunk on a contour of the printed-circuit-board. It was first model Spectrum-compatible PC, in which on one printed-circuit-board the computer and controller of the disk drive is located. "Pentagon" has borrowed from " of Moscow 128 ", in particular transparent RAM, addressing of ports, and lacks peculiar to "Moscow 128 " much. The dynamic memory in this model works on limiting frequencies, and the printed-circuit-board is divorced by the not best image, because of what it is necessary to strengthen bus of a power. n a printed-circuit-board there is no circuit of formation TV-RGB of a signal, and it should be done from above. As the positive side of this model, is possible is to note the device of input from the tape recorder (on K561LN2), and as negative - absence of a system socket. "Pentagon 48 " is popular also now, though the machine with 128 kilobytes RAM is gradually superseded similar. Hardly later "Pentagon" in the market there was PC "Krasnogorsk". Is original model, in which for formation of television signals ROM K573RF2 (5) with the table programmed in it is used. In "Krasnogorsk" is used, though also transparent, but the mode, facilitated at the expense of a rigid machine cycle, of the RAM, on a printed-circuit-board is divorced the shaper TV-RGB of signals. This version PC has become attempt to correct lacks "Baltic" and " of Leningrad I ", but because of difficulty of purchase ROM with the table, complexity of expansion, because of absence of a system socket and wrong addressing of ports this model has not become same mass, as " Leningrad I ". Nowadays "Krasnogorsk" is distributed in the market very little. After occurrence in the beginning of 1990 "Krasnogorsk", by virtue of a number of the reasons, in the market household PC more than year did not occur of new models Spectrum-compatible of computers. The occurrence PC " Orion 128 " on the basis of the processor KR580IK80, with anything not compatible programmly, has not rendered essential influence on development household PC. However spring and summer 1991 in the market has appeared at once some new models. " Leningrad 2 " represents of improvements variant " of Leningrad I ", in comparison with it in new model is corrected addressingt Kempston-joysticks, though have remained mistakes of addressing "border" of a port FE (254). The videoprocessor forms 312 lines in the frame, the external bus is outside . " Leningrad 2 " is much better than the predecessor, but, on all visibility, same popular it has not become. One of the reasons it is the complexity of expansion, as well as at all previous PC, absence of controllers developed under specific model. The computer "ZX-PROFI" the first of developed at us of PC, in which besides a mode 48 and 128, is stipulated also use of operational system ???. The computer consists of two printed-circuit-board and is combined in enough to setup, but has the most complete set of periphery in one block. The authors and distributors will carry out correct market politics directed on a wide circulation to this model. But their mistake is that complex and expensive half-professional PC is not necessary to basic mass of the potential consumers. Advantage of this model is the mode "TURBO", and lack - Incomplete compatibility both with ZX Spectrum, and with ??? PC ROBOTRON 1715. In comparison with "ZX-PROFI" " Pentagon 128 " has appeared more simple and mass PC, though, as a matter of fact, it only crossing " of Moscow 128 " and "Pentagon48" without essential improvement. The machine is difficult in set-up, is critical to RAM, on a printed-circuit-board there is no place under musical co-processor AY-8912, but nowadays this computer, unfortunately, unique. "ATM-turbo" - Is pure commercial PC. The politics of its authors or manufacturers focused on protection of "copyrights", most likely, is directed on reception of the maximal profit to short terms. This, undoubtedly, original PC is most expensive also complex nowadays. In it some grafics modes (only in ???) are stipulated, but, unfortunately, these additions - presence analogue - digital converter, digital-to-analog converter and elements for the modem and automatic determinant of a telephone number on one printed-circuit-board, - Nowadays are not maintained in any way programmly. In the computer there is no sufficient flexibility and even of a system socket. Similar, the problems of compatibility with ZX Spectrum of the developers interested a little, and "???" it is possible to consider as ??? - compatible PC. On the present time last model is "Angstrem", in it a microcircuit 1515XM1 for the first time is applied. It is a set of counters, multiplexers and fine logic. Simplicity in manufacturing and cheapness, undoubtedly, will make in a near future this model popular. But essential step in it was only technological simplification with use 1515XM instead of a set of separate microcircuits. Among advantages it of PC - simplicity in setup, and among lacks small flexibility, in particular, impossibility of expansion of the RAM and deficiency 1515XM1. And what is farther? The information on quick occurrence new PC with two processors Z80 recently is received. From words of the authors, in it all problems of compatibility, and opportunity of expansion are solved, as almost. The printed-circuit-board in this model is similar on structure on Matherboard IBM PC, i.e. with several system sockets. It would be necessary to trust, that too not advertising. And it is desirable to the developers new PC to provide: availability, small set of elements, reliability, openness of architecture (ease of expansion), and from the point of view of compatibility - Correct addressing of ports, presence on a printed-circuit-board so-called " f a port FF ", correct situation and duration of a signal INT (inquiry of interruption). Well, and the one who does not want to wait (and whether will wait) occurrence "ideal" PC, it is possible to choose model on taste and pocket. Is desirable to you of good luck! " --------------- In 1982, the Englishman Clive Sinclaier has invented the 8-digit computer ZX-Spectrum, which was connected to the TV set and had the programming language Basic. Soon for it he has awarded a honourable rank sir, and in USSR this computer has become mass national computer and radioamateurs, which already have ceased to arrange programmed calculators: -), have begun to copy the electrical circuit ZX on soviet element base. The first popular circuit in 1986-1994 (time their greatest occurrences) was Leningrad. It was the simple circuit with the least quantity details and for the first time was thought up in Leningrad. Whence and name. In Minsk have begun to let out by an industrial image a Vector and Byte, ZX-Spectrum compatible too. There were more competently thought over models ZX - later Scorpion (it seems, Moscow) and Baltic (is developed in Tallin and distribution has received in Minsk). These circuits differed safety in operation, opportunity of connection of peripheral devices, including the disk drive. I personally itself have collected a little Baltik of computers and has set up them. At me till now is working Baltic with the disk drive. I know three operational systems for Baltic, including TR-DOS. There were also other clones ZX-Spectrum. As to 16-digit home computers, the soviet designers have let out BK-0010 with the programming language Focal and on the film keyboard. There were perfect updatings with Basic and contact keyboard later. Then I have learned, that BK-0010 and its clones were are copied from western model. For this reason it of all opportunities has not opened. :-( . Itself programmed on it and even modernized the circuit. But the epoch of ZX-Spectrum and BK-0010 irrevocably has passed. By it on change came IBM-PC-compartible. ------------------ From mbg at world.std.com Fri May 14 23:37:19 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! Message-ID: <199905150437.AA02552@world.std.com> >Worse they give the specs of Megan's system, not the one they're trying to >auction off. Who knows what they're trying to auction off! Wonder if they >realize just how souped up Megan's system is. They what? They asked me if they could linke to my pages from their ebay auction, so that people could learn more about -11s... I said I was flattered, but I didn't think people would *learn* much from my site since I don't have explanations of how to build or program the machines... only descriptions of their characteristics... I'll have to check what they wrote... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Fri May 14 23:44:11 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:02 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! Message-ID: <199905150444.AA05657@world.std.com> >Worse they give the specs of Megan's system, not the one they're trying to >auction off. Who knows what they're trying to auction off! Wonder if they >realize just how souped up Megan's system is. Wow... you're right... they appear to have copied the description for *my* pdp-11/23+ verbatim. I've sent them mail that they should halt the auction immediately as they are misrepresenting their item. They need to examine the 11/23+ they are trying to sell and figure out what it really has.... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 15 03:27:23 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23+ Micro Needs a New HOME! In-Reply-To: <199905150444.AA05657@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 May 1999, Megan wrote: > >Worse they give the specs of Megan's system, not the one they're trying to > >auction off. Who knows what they're trying to auction off! Wonder if they > >realize just how souped up Megan's system is. > > Wow... you're right... they appear to have copied the description > for *my* pdp-11/23+ verbatim. I've sent them mail that they should > halt the auction immediately as they are misrepresenting their item. > They need to examine the 11/23+ they are trying to sell and figure > out what it really has.... Doesn't surprise me. I've seen this particular person pimp many items on ebay without any clue as to what exactly they are selling. All they know is "hey, old computers are hot collectables" and just stick them up on ebay with half-assed descriptions. The lame part is people buy the crap for inflated prices anyway, thereby encouraging their behavior. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 15 03:38:04 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 15, 0:45) References: Message-ID: <9905150938.ZM15154@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 15, 0:45, Tony Duell wrote: > To get back to the video ULA, it contains (AFAIK) no DACs, because the > Beeb essentially worked with 3 TTL level signals for the video output > (that were encoded outside the ULA for composite PAL). Said ULA contains > just about all the video data path logic between the RAM data bus and the > RGB outputs (in other words the palette, pixel mux/shift register, > bits/pixel control logic, etc). That's most of the video data path. The > other part of the display system - the address generation - is provided > by the 6845. Yes, you're right there, of course. I must remember to engage brain before putting keyboard in gear ;-) Especially when short of sleep. I've worked on literally hundreds if not thousands of the things, so I should have remembered a bit better! > I know that darn linear PSU. It had separate 7805s for the 3 outputs that > fed the main board.... There were no less than three versions of the black linear PSU. None of them were satisfactory, but only one, the "adapter and converter", earned the obvious nickname. > All the docs I've seen imply that any device connected to the tube or the > 1MHz bus shouldn't draw significant power from the 5V line on those > ports. Connecting to the 'disk drive power connector' on the PSU can was > OK, of course. But most (all?) external devices had their own PSUs. If you draw too much from one connector, on Issue 3 or earlier PCBs, you can end up with a significant voltage drop. It's OK on later ones. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 15 04:09:54 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 15, 0:47) References: Message-ID: <9905151009.ZM15169@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 15, 0:47, Tony Duell wrote: > I wasn't really moaning about the AUG - it's an excellent manual (and you > get mine over my deaad body ;-)). It's just that most BBC hackers had > that manual and not much else, so that stuff that wasn't covered in that > book tends to be thought of as 'undocumented'. I've still got mine, thanks! It's a pity some dealers were not inclined to be more forthcoming, because Acorn did make a lot of documentation available, and would often provide it to users who wrote in; but dealers were always able to get it for customers, and even had a system (SID) to obtain lots of information, upgrade software, etc, via dial-up. They also had a large 2-volume set of 2" ring binders with diagrams, info, etc (that's where those System diagrams I gave you came from). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From Ferrousp at aol.com Sat May 15 06:19:03 1999 From: Ferrousp at aol.com (Ferrousp@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Subscription Message-ID: <67b2bf4a.246eb227@aol.com> Good morning. I received this address from Brian Mahoney and since I collect old computers, he says I should be on your mailing list. I am always in desperate need of restoration information. Can you please tell me how to subscribe? Thank you, Tim Knight From bmahoney at sprint.ca Sat May 15 08:58:37 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Fresh Meat References: <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <373D7D8D.D651F9AB@sprint.ca> Hans, this site has some info. I just got one of them also, very neat. http://web.wt.net/~damoore/oldcomp/cpq3/cpq3.html Brian P.S. I picked up an IBM 5291 Display Station yesterday complete with manuals with a bunch of other computers/monitors for $5.00. Any idea what would have fed it originally? Anyone in the Toronto area interested in it for trade or $5.00? Thanks. Brian. P.P.S. Sorry about the mailing list gaffe. I should have explained the subscription process in English, I guess. -- http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From bmahoney at sprint.ca Sat May 15 09:20:07 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: More on Fresh MEat References: <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <373D8297.6359DBC5@sprint.ca> http://www.compaq.com/support/techpubs/qrg/portIII.html http://www.compaq.com/support/portables/out_of_production/index.html http://www.compaq.com/productinfo/notebooks/old_portables.html These urls are to Compaq, obviously, who, in a similar manner as IBM, have continued to provide information on their older computers. Althought not as complete as the IBM site, Compaq offers some downloads of a PDF file (you have to hold shift while clicking it to bring up the download menu, they don't tell you that) with all the jumper settings. I was chagrined to discover the Portable III was not Y2K compatible ... at least not without some fiddling, but they tell you how to do that also. If you have an old unit from a major manufacturer, try their website. Do a search in different areas as sometimes a whole site search turns up nothing but a Y2K search will turn up lots of info, etc. Happy hunting! Brian -- http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From bmahoney at sprint.ca Sat May 15 09:29:59 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Fresh Meat References: <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> <373D8297.6359DBC5@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <373D84E7.B3F7A21@sprint.ca> http://www.compaq.com/support/files/obsolete_diagnostics.html Forgot this link. It's to a set of diag/setup disks, one 3 1/2, one 5 1/4. Same disk(s) for a whole slew of discontinued Compaqs. (I'll stop now. OK?) Brian -- http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Sat May 15 12:16:47 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990514133415.3af7b850@intellistar.net> References: <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199905151517.RAA12881@horus.mch.sni.de> > >I just picked up a Copmaq Portable PLUS (DM 35), a > >Portable III (DM 40), an Intelevision (DM 20, German > >Version with German manuals :) and a MacSE FDHD (DM 15). > >Happy Happy Joy Joy. > >Is there any site with information on the Compaq Portabele III ? > I haven't found one but what do you want to know? I have several of them > and I have an owner's manual. Just anything - seems to be a neat 286 machine - a bit heavy but neat - especialy the 'display lift' :) I have seen a second one today (with b&w LCD (mine has an orage plasma), but the guy still asked for 150 Mark. Way to much (he also offered a set of 4 TRS-80 cassetes at - take a seat: 50 Mark !!!). I have completly no docs on the Compaqs (beside the info Brian did support). Gruss H. P.S.: and speaking of today, new members of my junk yard are: a Commodore PC-1 (DM 10), a VZ-200 (DM 45) (used, but in original box), two ATARI video games (DM 18) (one 2400 original boxed), an Olivetti CTV 250 Typewriter/Textprocessor (back in the 80s, Olivetti had the most impressive design, not just grey boxes - I still would love to get hands on one of these small BASIC able 'handheld' systems as they where in unse in a lot of Cambio (Money Change) shops - top notch design and a cute interior) and two more unusual TV games - one seems to be a licenced Magnavox clone). -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From svs at ropnet.ru Sat May 15 09:55:40 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Token Rink (was Mac II stuff needed/wanted) In-Reply-To: <19990512001127.15879.qmail@brouhaha.com>; from Eric Smith on Wed, May 12, 1999 at 12:11:27AM -0000 References: <01be9b72$f2f0d8c0$279ba6d1@the-general> <37382E49.C475B586@netcom.com> <19990511152051.12623.qmail@brouhaha.com> <3738B4FB.8778911B@netcom.com> <19990512001127.15879.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <19990515185540.11791@firepower> On Wed, May 12, 1999 at 12:11:27AM -0000, Eric Smith wrote: > Stan wrote: > > I don't know what the market is for avoiding owning a TR NuBus card. > > Maybe I should start taking bids to see what it's worth to everyone > > *not* to have it! (Sort of a reverse eBay.) > > Of course, you can probably gouge even more money out of me by threatening > to also give me Token Ring hubs and any other Token Rink paraphenalia. :-) OK. You know you don't want these: 2 Proteon P2420 Wire Centers 1 Proteon P2400 Repeater Module -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat May 15 11:13:44 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: WANTED: VMS Orange Wall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>As I've been unable to find one locally, does anyone on the list >>have a VAX/VMS Orange Documentation "Wall" in Iowa, Nebraska, >>Minnesota, Illinois or Missouri that they'd like to be rid of? >>I'd be happy to drive and get it. >I'm curious as to why you are looking for the Orange Wall specifically. >Personally I prefer a combination of the Grey System Manager's Manual, and >"Mastering VMS". For basic tasks I find them easier to deal with than the >7.2 Hardcopy docmentation. I want to do assembly programming and other things on my MVaxII that are generally not covered in the Manager's manual etc. It just seems that every now and then someone has an orange wall that needs a home. Anthony Clifton From bmahoney at sprint.ca Sat May 15 13:41:38 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Garage sale finds! References: <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> <199905151517.RAA12881@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <373DBFE2.CBD5DC2A@sprint.ca> Just got a Timex Sinclair 1000 with a 16K mem. module, A/C adapter complete in original boxes for 3 bucks CDN, about 2 US bucks. Lady said it had never been hooked up to a TV (kind of like only driven on Sunday) but it really looks like it has never been used. Keypad is completely unmarked. Heading back to see if I can get a Compaq Portable II for 5 bucks at another spot. One of those, "If it's still here at 1pm you can have it." deals. Ah, the excitement of spring in Toronto ... Brian -- http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 15 12:31:07 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: MacOS 8.5-8.6 and Sherlock Message-ID: This is mainly off topic, but deals with some interesting ways to find info on the Internet. Plus I've got some cool classic computer related links. After sitting at MacOS 8.1 on my PowerMac for around a year, thanks to 8.5 causeing some problems for me when I tried to upgrade when it came out (these problems haven't been an issue since December), I went ahead and went straight to MacOS 8.6 last night. I've been hearing about this great new search tool that was introduced in MacOS 8.5 and has been updated in 8.6. Last night briefly I gave it a try and was impressed, so this morning while working on my morning pot of coffee, I've been playing with it. I used PDP-11/44 as the seed, and have dug up some really cool classic computer related stuff. If you get a chance to try it out, I'd recommend running a few searches on computers that you're interested in. Here are a couple interesting links. http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/index1.html An interesting page of old computers, including a PDP-11/44. This page led me to the next link. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/retro/ is "The Retrocomputing Museum", at first I thought it was one of the listmembers pages, and then I found out it's maintained by Eric S. Raymond (yes, of Open Source fame), and someone else. http://www.vaxarchive.org/compmus/kees/garage.html http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/index.html Nice page of links about VAX Hardware http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ Akos Varga has been busy it looks like! http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html Didn't someone recently want info on the KA630 this page looks worth a look! Or for the KA650 http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka650.html OK, I'm done wasting everyones time, please forgive my enthusiasm for something new and cool from Apple that is a cool way to find Classic Computer stuff. Oh, and yes, I realize there is probably some web site out there that will give you simular capabilities. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 15 13:10:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <9905150938.ZM15154@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 15, 99 08:38:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1139 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990515/a6186fe8/attachment.ksh From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat May 15 14:30:51 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: More on GRiDs Message-ID: Hi, I'm using my Compass again. :) I have the GRiD 1520 (I think that's the model) disassembled on the kitchen table beside me. It does, I repeat, it *does* have a hard drive in it. Either it is very, very quiet, or it wasn't spinning up before. Could be why it didn't pass the "test". I've located the battery, too. Looks to be non-rechargable, and it's soldered to the motherboard. Looks like a pink capacitor. TL-5101. Anyone know the specs on this? The hard drive is from JVC. I didn't even know that JVC made hard drives. "Manufactured by Victor Company of Japan, Limited". It's labeled "20 MEG HD" on the outside of the metal case. It's a model JD3824G00-2. There is one error listed, on cylinder 155, head 0, sector 4. The hard drive is a very slim 3.5" unit, with a 26-pin connector going into it. Those 26 pins _include_ the power. What kind of drive is this? The floppy drive definitely works. I plugged it into my Amiga 1200 and viewed some JPEGs from it. The little modem board (?) is from USRobotics. The AC adapter actually slides out of the case. It has battery terminals on its inside end. Obviously the battery pack must fit into the same space when the machine is on the move. There's some other kind of connector on the end of the AC adapter, too, but I don't know what that's for. Also, why is there an external 16VDC connector if the battery slides into the case? The CPU is a HARRIS (says INTEL lower down) CG80C286-10. There are four monstrous square FARADAY chips near the CPU, 21 pins to a side. FE3000A/M79V004, FE3030/M73HB002, FE3010/M92H801, FE3020/M73HB001. There's a 40-pin ceramic DIP labeled "256K RAM". Could be video RAM, I suppose, but it's far away from the video board and plasma display connecions. There's a socket next to it, of the same physical size. There are four banks of RAM on little boards, kind of like SIMMs but not. The board edges seem to be soldered to the motherboard. There are four empty spaces for more of these things. 30 pins each. Or is that what 30-pin SIMMs are supposed to look like? :) Some chips have GRiD labels. The chip which I presume to be the main video chip is a square YAMAHA beast, 21 pins per side, with labels "7822851/V6366B-J/6102B-J". Possibly most importantly, there are modifications inside. On the motherboard, at position U83, there is a piggybacked 20-pin chip, with some cut pins and wire leading to the chip below it (only one) and to U72 and U73. There's another piggybacked 14-pin chip at U26, and a couple of other patches here and there. I thought a machine beaing the GRiD name would be beyond these kinds of patches. :) Anyway, I ended up doing the full disassembly by accident. I was trying to figure out how to open the case, and the only obvious screws were the ones under the carrying handle. I unscrewed two of those and "jingle jingle jingle" some metal pieces fell from their moorings and started drifting around inside. Oh joy. Turns out they were under the battery compartment. Turns out I needed to disassemble EVERYTHING to get under there and put the pieces back in place. Turns out they were the springs that hold the handle in one of two positions. Now I hope I can get the darn thing together again. I didn't take notes, and there are tons of screws all over the place. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat May 15 14:58:42 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Compass clock? Message-ID: Hi, When I was using the GRiD Compass yesterday, I noticed that the system clock was frozen at 17-Nov-1985, 9:01 p.m. I tried setting it for 14-May-1999, 9:46 a.m. I thought it would b frozen again at that time, but when I powered the beast up again to make this call I was surprised to see that the clock had advanced to 9:56 a.m.! :) And instead of the 15th, it says it is the 25th! Is this an early Y2K problem? :) Is there an evil battery inside, about to leak all over my precious bubble memory modules? Oh, and BTW, how much bubble memory am I supposed to have? Currently it has "334 in use, 52 free". That's 386 units. It says "Usage (in 1000s of characters)" beneath the system memory report (I can look at these things from inside GRiDVT100, luckily) but I'm not sure if it applies to bubble memory as well as normal system memory. After all, the bubble memory is where the filesystem lives, which is a bit different. My system mem is currently "System: 153 Application: 51 Data: 18 Free: 40". That's 262,000, which is about 256 when divided by 1024. Is GRiD-OS eating most of my memory? What a hog! ;) I found the little blurb in Popular Science, August 1982, p.42, and it says that the machine comes with 256K each of bubble and normal memory. And for $8000. Was there an expensive option to get more bubble memory? Or is that what differentiates the 1100 from the 1101? Oh yeah, where is the OS stored? And applications like GRiDWrite and GRiDVT100? The VT100 emulator seems to load slowly enough, which implies that it's in bubble. So, like, if I reformat my bubble memory, I'm toast, right? I would very much like to have some sort of backup of everything in bubble memory. I don't seem to have XMODEM or any other transfer protocols on this thing. Argh. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat May 15 15:02:30 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: sun mice Message-ID: <199905152002.UAA23583@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Is there a sure-fire way to determine if a sun mouse is a type 2 versis type 3? It looks like the mice for type 3 have little side-pins on the connector, so is it reasonable to assume that mice without this feature are for sun-2 series computers? I figured i'd go through the box of old sun mice at work, since they are all so old as to predate any hardware we still have in operation. Looks like there are quite a few sun3 mice, possibly a few sun 2. -Lawrence LeMay From a2k at one.net Sat May 15 15:03:30 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: PC/36 et al. Message-ID: Hello, I have the following for 1.2*shipping: IBM PC/36 5364 miniframe Amiga 500 in pieces, non-working Kevin Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k@one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon@nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| -------------------------------------------------------------------- From roblwill at usaor.net Sat May 15 18:03:15 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: HP-HIL mice (and some questions) Message-ID: <01be9f27$1d799200$8b8ea6d1@the-general> Hi! does anyone have any HP-HIL mice? I recently got a keyboard for my Vectra RS/25c, but now I need a mouse for it. Anyone know what drivers I can use for it? Also - are there any drivers for the [HP-HIL] keyboard? There's some keys on it that don't appear to do anything (such as "reset" and "menu"). There's also some blank (programmable?) keys. When I boot, it says "keyboard connector not functioning" I'm assuming this is the 5-pin DIN AT connector, but when I hook a keyboard up to it, it won't function correctly (F-keys and number pad won't work). The HP-HIL keyboard works fine, but I get the error. ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat May 15 15:24:27 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Northstar Assistance Request In-Reply-To: <005001be7874$dc6e2ce0$02932599@office1> Message-ID: Greetings, I pulled the Northstar Horizon out of storage now that I have time to take another crack at restoring it. It has an MDS-A3 controller, which I connected to an MPI-52 full-height 5.25" drive. When I boot it, I can hear it jiggle the heads a few times (a good sign generally) but then it just spins the disk for a minute (I can't hear the heads moving) and then stops. I've used disks in it sent to be my Doug Coward and by Don Maslin (Don, I put some money in an envelope to mail to you on monday!) and both exhibit the same behavior. Are there any reasons I shouldn't use an MPI-52 with the MDS-A3? Could the jumpers on the MPI-52 be set incorrectly to act as a single drive in this system? What other sorts of problems will cause this sort of behavior on this particular machine? At no point is anything displayed on the terminal. I've verified the baud rate at 9600 and tried with hardware handshaking on and off. I've also tried both serial ports as an experiment. At any rate, I don't think serial comm is the problem here since it's my understanding that the N* will only display terminal messages IF it successfully loads an OS and I just don't hear those heads moving around doing reads. In either case, I ASSUME that the terminal needs to be plugged into the RIGHT serial connector, closest to the parallel ports. I put a breakout box on it and it says all the lines are happy. Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas? Speculations? Thanks... Anthony Clifton From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat May 15 15:43:47 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: sun mice In-Reply-To: <199905152002.UAA23583@thorin.cs.umn.edu> from Lawrence LeMay at "May 15, 1999 08:02:30 pm" Message-ID: <199905152043.UAA23651@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Ok, more information, now that i've spend a half hour sorting mice. Sun mice are Mouse Systems mice, of course. I have one Model M2 mouse, which is black, and thus is most likely a mouse for a Sun 2 computer. I have many Model 3 and 4 mice, which have the brass pins on the side of the connector. The one sun 3/50 keyboard I have is using a Model 3 with pins, so i'm assuming these are all for use on type 3 keyboards? The strange thing is, I have several Model M3 mice that dont have those brass pins on the connector. So i'm wondering if these are also usable on older sun 2 computers, or if sun is just playing mind games with me.. -Lawrence LeMay > Is there a sure-fire way to determine if a sun mouse is a type 2 versis > type 3? It looks like the mice for type 3 have little side-pins on > the connector, so is it reasonable to assume that mice without this > feature are for sun-2 series computers? > > I figured i'd go through the box of old sun mice at work, since they > are all so old as to predate any hardware we still have in operation. > Looks like there are quite a few sun3 mice, possibly a few sun 2. > > -Lawrence LeMay > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat May 15 16:53:03 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Compaq P III description Re: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: <199905151517.RAA12881@horus.mch.sni.de> References: <3.0.1.16.19990514133415.3af7b850@intellistar.net> <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990515165303.3a8fbac4@intellistar.net> Hans, At 05:17 PM 5/15/99 +1, you wrote: >> >I just picked up a Copmaq Portable PLUS (DM 35), a >> >Portable III (DM 40), an Intelevision (DM 20, German >> >Version with German manuals :) and a MacSE FDHD (DM 15). >> >Happy Happy Joy Joy. >> >Is there any site with information on the Compaq Portabele III ? > >> I haven't found one but what do you want to know? I have several of them >> and I have an owner's manual. > >Just anything - seems to be a neat 286 machine - a bit heavy but neat - >especialy the 'display lift' :) I have seen a second one today (with >b&w LCD (mine has an orage plasma), but the guy still asked for 150 Mark. >Way to much (he also offered a set of 4 TRS-80 cassetes at - take a seat: >50 Mark !!!). OK Here goes: The P III is a 8/12 Mhz 286 portable with 640K or RAM standard and a 20 or 40 Mb hard drive standard. There are lots of options for it including a pod that hooks on the back and connects through the little sliding door there. The Pod has one 8 bit and one 16 bit ISA slots in it. The pod door is a bastard to get open and the pod is a bastard to get off once you install it. You could also get a 40 Mb tape drive that would mount inside the pod. There is also an optional MODEM that can be installed inside the main case. There are also two optional memory expander boards that can be installed. Each hold up to six standard SIMMs. The SIMMs can be either 256K or 1Mb types so you can have a total of 6.6Mb of RAM in the PIII. One type of expander board makes the memory appear as extended memory and the other makes it appear as expanded memory. Although the literature only lists 20 and 40 Mb hard drives as being available, Compaq's spare parts list shows several other models including a 150 Mb one. There is a regular hard drive table in the BIOS and it lists about 46 types of hard drives (they use regualr IDE drives) including some that are larger than that supported by DOS. The manual warns that you have to use other OSs than DOS to support these types. I have put larger drives in several of them with no trouble what so ever. There is a utilty avaiable from Compaq to allow access to the CMOS setup but AMIDIAG and some of the other utilities will also access it. I think you can also access it by pressing the F10 key when the system first starts up. The screen on the P III has VGA resolution not CGA. I've never seen a LCD screen on a P III. I think that one has to be someone else's model. If you take the back cover off of the P III, there are charts inside that explain all the jumper settings. The P III can run at 8 Mhz or 12 MHz or at 12 and drop to 8 automaticly when it accesses the drives. There is room in them for both a 3.5 and a 5.25" floppy drives. You could get 720K, 1.44Mb, 1.2Mb or 360K drives in them from Compaq. There were two different versions of the P IIIs. The later one had an enhanced keyboard but I don't remember exactly what the difference was. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat May 15 17:08:30 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: HP-HIL mice (and some questions) In-Reply-To: <01be9f27$1d799200$8b8ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990515170830.216f696a@intellistar.net> Jason, At 04:03 PM 5/15/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi! does anyone have any HP-HIL mice? Yeah, I have herds of them. Whattaya want, a round one, oblong one, two buttons or three? I recently got a keyboard for my >Vectra RS/25c, but now I need a mouse for it. Anyone know what drivers I >can use for it? Drivers? For what? If you mean for the mouse, you don't need one. Most the HP_HIL devices should be recognized automaticly. A few like the ID unit and sound stuff aren't but they're not intended to work on the Vectra anyway. > >Also - are there any drivers for the [HP-HIL] keyboard? There's some keys >on it that don't appear to do anything (such as "reset" and "menu"). >There's also some blank (programmable?) keys. It's a standard keybaord that's used for many computers. The other keys are used for the other systems. "Menu" turns the menu at the bottom of the screen off and on on the 9000 series computers. "Reset" causes a 9000 to abort the current program and reset the operating system (usually BASIc, Pascal, etc). > >When I boot, it says "keyboard connector not functioning" I'm assuming this >is the 5-pin DIN AT connector, but when I hook a keyboard up to it, it won't >function correctly (F-keys and number pad won't work). The HP-HIL keyboard >works fine, but I get the error. Yeah, I have a similar problem on my Vectra too, except I'm using a standard PC keyboard and all the keys seem to work. I'm not sure what's causing it but I'm hoping there may be something in setup that affects it. I haven't looked for the setup disks yet but they're supposed to be available on HP's website. Joe > >ThAnX, >///--->>> > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > > From roblwill at usaor.net Sat May 15 19:35:59 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: OT, but Sort of an emergency... Message-ID: <01be9f34$11da7d80$708ea6d1@the-general> Does anyone have or know where to find a 2.5" to 2.5" hard drive adapter (lets you use a laptop drive in a desktop)? My laptop just died (vertical/horizontal lines on screen, and that's it), and I NEED to get a report off of the HD. ThAnX! ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From mbg at world.std.com Sat May 15 16:52:56 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: IBM PCs Message-ID: <199905152152.AA15014@world.std.com> About a week or so ago, I asked about IBM PCs... I had received a few when we saved the decsystem-10s (they had been used as consoles). I wasn't sure what they were (and hadn't really looked at their model numbers) and asked how I might identify IBM PCs... I got lots of good info... and today (while cleaning the museum, er, my apartment) I put them together and powered them up. They both work... One is a 5160, one is a 5150. The 5160 has what I think is a 10Mbyte hard drive and a full height 5.25" floppy. The 5150 has again a 10Mbyte hard drive and a half height 5.25" floppy. Are the floppies what account for the difference betweeen the 5160 and the 5150, or is there something else? Otherwise the monitors, keyboards and units work fine... I think I may put one up on ebay... L@@K!! RARE!!! :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat May 15 17:07:06 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: GRiDCASE 1520 back together Message-ID: The GRiDCASE 1520 is back together. I think it was easier to reassemble than to disassemble. Condition: exactly the same as when I started, but with a little less black paint (from where I used a screwdriver to try to pry the case apart). I even left the battery in there. Hard drive's still not spinning up, clock is still not set. Oh, and the Compass still has a crazy clock, too. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From jruschme at exit109.com Sat May 15 17:21:25 1999 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: sun mice In-Reply-To: <199905152043.UAA23651@thorin.cs.umn.edu> from Lawrence LeMay at "May 15, 99 03:43:47 pm" Message-ID: <199905152221.SAA01916@crobin.home.org> > > Is there a sure-fire way to determine if a sun mouse is a type 2 versis > > type 3? It looks like the mice for type 3 have little side-pins on > > the connector, so is it reasonable to assume that mice without this > > feature are for sun-2 series computers? > > > > I figured i'd go through the box of old sun mice at work, since they > > are all so old as to predate any hardware we still have in operation. > > Looks like there are quite a few sun3 mice, possibly a few sun 2. > > Sun mice are Mouse Systems mice, of course. I have one Model M2 mouse, > which is black, and thus is most likely a mouse for a Sun 2 computer. > I have many Model 3 and 4 mice, which have the brass pins on the side of > the connector. The one sun 3/50 keyboard I have is using a Model 3 > with pins, so i'm assuming these are all for use on type 3 keyboards? > The strange thing is, I have several Model M3 mice that dont have those > brass pins on the connector. So i'm wondering if these are also usable > on older sun 2 computers, or if sun is just playing mind games with me.. IIRC, electrically the Sun 2 and Sun 3 mice are equivalent. The difference is the connector. A Sun 2 mouse (Type 2) has an RJ-11 plug for a connector, as does the Type 2 keyboard. A Sun 3 mouse (Type 3) has a DB-9 connector and plugs into the top of a Type 3 keyboard (which has a DB-15 plug). Some of the late Sun 2's actually had the 15-bpin keyboard/mouse port on the CPU, but came with a small adapter that took the RJ-11 connectors for the Type 2 KB and mouse. A Type 4 keyboard is common on late Sun 3 and early Sparc systems. It has mini-DIN plugs (KB plugs into CPU, mouse into KB), but is still electrically equivalent and can be adapted via a simple cable. The current Type 5 KB and mouse are also electrically equivalent, but restyled. The big problem with switching between generations of Sun mice is not the mouse or the connector, but the mouse pad. You definately want the one which matches the mouse, though there seems no easy way to tell which is which. <<>> From jruschme at exit109.com Sat May 15 17:26:12 1999 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: More on GRiDs In-Reply-To: from Doug Spence at "May 15, 99 03:30:51 pm" Message-ID: <199905152226.SAA01921@crobin.home.org> > I'm using my Compass again. :) > > It does, I repeat, it *does* have a hard drive in it. Either it is very, > very quiet, or it wasn't spinning up before. Could be why it didn't pass > the "test". > > The hard drive is from JVC. I didn't even know that JVC made hard drives. > "Manufactured by Victor Company of Japan, Limited". It's labeled "20 MEG > HD" on the outside of the metal case. It's a model JD3824G00-2. There is > one error listed, on cylinder 155, head 0, sector 4. > > The hard drive is a very slim 3.5" unit, with a 26-pin connector going > into it. Those 26 pins _include_ the power. What kind of drive is this? Oh not *that* one! It's MFM... the same drive used on the early Zenith XT laptops. It's likely got *very* bad stiction as this appears to be the most common fault. Good luck finding a replacement. <<>> From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat May 15 17:30:17 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: sun mice In-Reply-To: <199905152221.SAA01916@crobin.home.org> from John Ruschmeyer at "May 15, 1999 06:21:25 pm" Message-ID: <199905152230.WAA23817@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > > Is there a sure-fire way to determine if a sun mouse is a type 2 versis > > > type 3? It looks like the mice for type 3 have little side-pins on > > > the connector, so is it reasonable to assume that mice without this > > > feature are for sun-2 series computers? > > > > > > I figured i'd go through the box of old sun mice at work, since they > > > are all so old as to predate any hardware we still have in operation. > > > Looks like there are quite a few sun3 mice, possibly a few sun 2. > > > > Sun mice are Mouse Systems mice, of course. I have one Model M2 mouse, > > which is black, and thus is most likely a mouse for a Sun 2 computer. > > I have many Model 3 and 4 mice, which have the brass pins on the side of > > the connector. The one sun 3/50 keyboard I have is using a Model 3 > > with pins, so i'm assuming these are all for use on type 3 keyboards? > > The strange thing is, I have several Model M3 mice that dont have those > > brass pins on the connector. So i'm wondering if these are also usable > > on older sun 2 computers, or if sun is just playing mind games with me.. > > IIRC, electrically the Sun 2 and Sun 3 mice are equivalent. The difference > is the connector. > > A Sun 2 mouse (Type 2) has an RJ-11 plug for a connector, as does the > Type 2 keyboard. > > A Sun 3 mouse (Type 3) has a DB-9 connector and plugs into the top of It plugs into the top of the type 3 keyboard, but its still a RJ-11 plug, but the plug has these brass pings sticking out of each side. So it cannot be plugged into a normal RJ-11 jack. > a Type 3 keyboard (which has a DB-15 plug). Some of the late Sun 2's > actually had the 15-bpin keyboard/mouse port on the CPU, but came with > a small adapter that took the RJ-11 connectors for the Type 2 KB and mouse. > > A Type 4 keyboard is common on late Sun 3 and early Sparc systems. It > has mini-DIN plugs (KB plugs into CPU, mouse into KB), but is still > electrically equivalent and can be adapted via a simple cable. > > The current Type 5 KB and mouse are also electrically equivalent, but > restyled. > > The big problem with switching between generations of Sun mice is not > the mouse or the connector, but the mouse pad. You definately want the > one which matches the mouse, though there seems no easy way to tell which > is which. > > <<>> > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat May 15 18:10:32 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures References: <19990514141729.7399.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <373DFD94.428A@mcmanis.com> Hi Ethan, Good luck, I've scoured the Flea Market twice (once on Friday and once today) and there just ain't any DEC stuff here. One guy had a box of Q-bus boards with a uVAX-II CPU plus some 8MB memory boards. If I had need of them they might have been a deal at $10/each. And the guts of an 11/34a. Neither looked like it has been treated well. I did find a PDP-8 core stack but it was in a display case at my friends office where we got some free tickets (sigh.) I did pick up some Nifty LCDs though for $7 that I'm going to use to create a "disk bay console" ala the Linux stuff. --Chuck From snegri at azstarnet.com Sat May 15 17:12:44 1999 From: snegri at azstarnet.com (Sam Negri) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: IBM 286 Help Request Message-ID: <199905152309.QAA01444@cepheus.azstarnet.com> A friend gave me his old IBM 286 which I'd like to revive for my wife's use. When I power on, a red light indicates the machine is looking at the 5.25 floppy drive, then I hear two beeps, and nothing at all appears on the screen. I'm thinking that maybe the BIOS somehow got trashed but I don't have a clue what to do about it. I don't think there's anything wrong with the monitor. I think the computer just doesn't seem to know it has a hard drive and monitor connected. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated. I tried removing and reseating all the cards because that's sometimes solved problems when I had my own 286, but it didn't do any good with this machine. Thanks in advance. Sam -- ___________________________________________ Sam Negri P.O. Box 85132 Tucson, Arizona 85754-5132 For a taste of Arizona, visit my home page: http://www.azstarnet.com/~snegri/ -- ___________________________________________ Sam Negri P.O. Box 85132 Tucson, Arizona 85754-5132 For a taste of Arizona, visit my home page: http://www.azstarnet.com/~snegri/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 15 18:03:46 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: IBM PCs In-Reply-To: <199905152152.AA15014@world.std.com> from "Megan" at May 15, 99 05:52:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 673 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990516/477a9edf/attachment.ksh From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sat May 15 19:07:58 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: DG NOVA 2 (3 of them) For sale. Message-ID: <199905160007.UAA07403@phantom.golden.net> These Data General NOVA 2s are being sold AS IS. They are not in racks. They are the 10 slot version. They are in very good external condition. The DG name plate has been removed and replaced with an OEM's (STS - Systems Technologies Services), otherwise everything is DG original. Each has the following 3 boards: * CPU * Basic I/O * 16K core memory These computers run from 110VAC and come with a regular domestic, 3-prong electrical plug and cord. No documentation. US$175 each plus shipping. Depending on where you live and considering the dimensions and weight of each NOVA, shipping will be between US$60 to 100. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From red at bears.org Sat May 15 19:25:09 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: good source of obscure IBM parts? Message-ID: As the new owner of an abandoned IBM product (Thinkpad Power Series 850, 1995, not on topic, though highly advanced at the time and now abandoned) I was wondering if anybody had any favourite IBM remarketers they turned to when in need of IBM unobtanium, or were chummy with any warehouse managers... I'm willing to throw money at this one, it's too close to being Really Cool to not. (: For those unfamiliar with the Thinkpad Power Series line, they are IBM's brief foray into the RS/6000 laptop market. The 850 sports a 100 MHz PPC 603e (not speedy) and a surprising array of multimedia capabilities (including NTSC video I/O), and runs AIX up to 4.1.5, or 4.2.something if one feels lucky. I'd appreciate any leads anybody could pass on. ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 15 19:34:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: IBM 286 Help Request In-Reply-To: <199905152309.QAA01444@cepheus.azstarnet.com> from "Sam Negri" at May 15, 99 04:12:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1659 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990516/35ec885e/attachment.ksh From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Sat May 15 20:01:03 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Fwd: Decmate II Wanted Message-ID: <199905160101.VAA20587@platy.cs.unc.edu> Kindly reply to Gary, not to me: >------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wanted: Operational "Decmate II" system, manufactured by Digital > Equipment Corporation in the mid-1980's. I live in Seattle. > Please contact Gary Christenson: stlhdr@scn.org >------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 15 20:11:17 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Size, weight of a PDP-11/83? Message-ID: <199905160111.AA15936@world.std.com> late80s design) 3x a PC) and it's of similar scale. An excellent hobbiest machine of the small iron class. Does anyone have the jumper settings for the Tiara Arcnet LANCard AT? I recently got one of these cards, and all of the jumpers were missing. Does anyone know where to get drivers for this card? I've tried to find Tiara's website, but I can't find one anywhere. The only one that may have been it (www.tiaratech.com) doesn't seem to have an index page. ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 15 21:14:02 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: WANTED: VMS Orange Wall In-Reply-To: <199905160111.AA16023@world.std.com> Message-ID: >Or keep a look for the gray wall (later version of similar material). >If memory serves orange was V4.XX (maybe V3 too) and gray was V5.XX. That's right, Orange is V4.x and Grey is V5.x, isn't V3 Blue? I seem to remember hearing either V1 or V2 is white (there was actually a USENET thread on this a couple months ago). V6-V7.1 the colour depends on the type of manual (User, System Manager, or Programming), with V7.2 they're white >And yes they are s significant resource. About six months back I lucked >into a copy of the gray wall (30 volumes!). Would never part with it and >it's my first set even though Microvaxen were something I was involved with >since '85! You're lucky! As a bit of info for anyone _REALLY_ into OpenVMS, the basic Hardcopy Doc set is actually quite reasonably priced. It's when you get the Full set it get's expensive. The thing to do is get the basic set, and any specific manuals out of the full set you're interested in. The Basic set came to $15 apiece, and the two cluster manuals I got were $30 each. Or you can simply access them on the web. http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/ I just checked and it does include a VAX Macro book. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bmahoney at sprint.ca Sat May 15 23:45:08 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: IBM 286 Help Request References: <199905152309.QAA01444@cepheus.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <373E4D53.75420AA3@sprint.ca> Is there anything on the screen at all, not from the computer but scan lines, whatever. If there is, and there are two beeps, adjust the contrast/brightness to see if there is a tiny symbol (like an ankh?) on the screen. If there is then you need to short out two jumpers near the PS to remove the BIOS password. Reasoning behind this is primarily the two beeps and then the fact that you don't mention any grinding hard drive noise making me wonder what is happening after the floppy check/beeps. Sounds like it is looking for a password. Brian Sam Negri wrote: > A friend gave me his old IBM 286 which I'd like to revive for my > wife's use. When I power on, a red light indicates the machine is > > looking at the 5.25 floppy drive, then I hear two beeps, and > nothing at all appears on the screen. I'm thinking that maybe the > > BIOS somehow got trashed but I don't have a clue what to do about > > it. I don't think there's anything wrong with the monitor. I > think the computer just doesn't seem to know it has a hard drive > and monitor connected. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated. > > I tried removing and reseating all the cards because that's > sometimes solved problems when I had my own 286, but it didn't do > > any good with this machine. > > Thanks in advance. > Sam > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Sam Negri > P.O. Box 85132 > Tucson, Arizona 85754-5132 > > For a taste of Arizona, visit my home page: > http://www.azstarnet.com/~snegri/ > > -- > ___________________________________________ > Sam Negri > P.O. Box 85132 > Tucson, Arizona 85754-5132 > > For a taste of Arizona, visit my home page: > http://www.azstarnet.com/~snegri/ -- http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat May 15 22:44:38 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) Message-ID: Usually I remain aloof from e-bay stuff, as I do not use, or much like, the system. HOWEVER, this seems an easy way to get scammed by someone and does not appear to be reasonably detectable until it's too late. I have deleted identifying bits in the text to keep from propagating innocent IDs all over. Forwarded message follows: -------------------------------------------------------- Xref: ix.netcom.com rec.radio.swap I don't normally post on this group, but this is so important that it needs to get out as quickly as possible before anybody else gets burned. Late last month (April) I had put a XXXX repeater up for sale on Ebay. It was bid on by quite a few different persons. The high bidder on it didn't contact me for four days and finally sent an email backing out of the deal. This resulted in a negative feedback being placed which made it public knowledge that he had back out. Two days ago I was contacted by two of the higher bidders. Each had been contacted by a person in Xxxxxx Xxxxx, California wanting to know if they were still willing to honor their bid on the repeater! Now this is the very same repeater sitting in my shop as I type this! Since the email address of the seller in the original auction was overlooked (you would have to do a search of past auctions to get a peek at it) this person played the part very well as the owner and managed to get two money orders sent to him. The address he uses is a mail drop on XXXXX Rd in Xxxxx Xxxxxx, CA. If you see this street come up in any dealings with a person out in that area BEWARE! PLEASE if you have been or get contacted by anybody on Ebay who wants to pursue a bid you made on an item, double check his email address from the original auction page. Ebay has been notified and I'm pushing to get the bidding history either removed or modified to notify all involved that the history has been accessed. Thank you for taking the time to read. Signed XXXXXXXXX ---------------------------------------------------------- End forwarded message Since we here are dealing in a different line of equipment, I did not include the alleged miscreant's address or city... but the algorithm of the scam can be applied anywhere. Of course I realize that anyone can post anything they like to Usenet, but this has the Ring of Truth to it. Caveat Vendor..... just another reason I dislike e-bay. No *real* auction is timed... the sale is made final when no other bidder increments the price... so even 'sniping' has a balancing force against it: the ever-rising price. When there is a known time limit for the sale to expire, then how can that be fair? Cheers John From jhfine at idirect.com Sat May 15 23:14:45 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Size, weight of a PDP-11/83? References: <3.0.32.19990514192509.006ae60c@cadvision.com> Message-ID: <373E4635.E05CE961@idirect.com> >Mark Gregory wrote: > Through a lovely bit of serendipity, I've just been offered a PDP-11/83 > that's local to me. Before I accept, can anyone help me with the following > questions: > > How big is this classic likely to be? Most PDPs I've seen were > refridgerator sized, with washing machine sized disk drives, tape drives, > etc. Is that about what I can expect, or is the 11/83 one of the later, > smaller 11s? > > How heavy might it be? Would it be a lifting job for 2? 4? 8? > > Does it require special power? My home isn't wired for anything beyond > household current. > > Any help would be much appreciated. I'd love to save this machine, but > there are limits to my space/money/housemate's patience. > > Alternatively, if anyone else is in or around Calgary, AB, and would be > interested in this machine, e-mail me off list. If I decide not to take it, > I can put you in touch with the owner. Jerome Fine replies: I presume you have seen the various replies. If the system is in a BA23 box, you should be able to easily handle it by yourself. If it is in a BA123 box, you probably need someone else to help due to the size and weight - about 70 lb. and about 20" high by 12" wide by 20" deep - on 4 casters that move easily on a hard smooth floor. If you decide not to use it, please contact me. I believe I was the person who made the PRO350 available. Please let me know when you are going to decide. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From fmc at reanimators.org Sun May 16 00:09:41 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: sun mice In-Reply-To: Lawrence LeMay's message of "Sat, 15 May 1999 15:43:47 -0500 (CDT)" References: <199905152043.UAA23651@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <199905160509.WAA81150@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Sun mice are Mouse Systems mice, of course. I have one Model M2 mouse, > which is black, and thus is most likely a mouse for a Sun 2 computer. > I have many Model 3 and 4 mice, which have the brass pins on the side of > the connector. The one sun 3/50 keyboard I have is using a Model 3 > with pins, so i'm assuming these are all for use on type 3 keyboards? > The strange thing is, I have several Model M3 mice that dont have those > brass pins on the connector. So i'm wondering if these are also usable > on older sun 2 computers, or if sun is just playing mind games with me.. Sun is playing mind games with you. You will know that you've reached the bone-us level when you have in front of you a type 3 mouse with the pins in its RJ-11 plug and a type 3 keyboard with a standard RJ-11 jack that won't accept the pins. I have a type 2 mouse here. It's black with gray buttons, and has a Sun sticker on top with the purple, on-its-corner Sun logo and black "sun" text. On bottom there's a Mouse Systems label with the following dot-matrix imprint: MSC 900783-002/01 SN MSC BQ00226 MADE IN USA Type 2: keyboard and mouse both have RJ-11 plugs The 2/120 can have RJ-11 jacks for this combination; both devices get plugged separately into the CPU cabinet (but I think the connectors go to the bwtwo or other framebuffer). Type 3: keyboard has RJ-11 jack for mouse and DA15 plug to system; mouse daisy-chains through keyboard The 2/50, 3/50, 3/60, and I guess most Sun 3s excepting the 3/80 use this DA15 connector. The 2/50 came with an adaptor box that plugged into the DA15 socket on the back of the CPU and brought out two RJ-11 jacks. The adaptor box works on Sun 3s too. Type 4: keyboard has mini-DIN plug and socket(s) for mouse; mouse daisy-chains through keyboard There's also an adaptor box that plugs into the DA15 socket that brings out a mini-DIN socket so you can use a Type 4 keyboard and mouse on your Sun 3 -- I guess Sun ran out of Type 3 keyboards before the service life ended or something. Or maybe people with Sun 3s just wanted to use Type 4 keyboards? (Ewww, but then I don't like the Type 4 keyboard.) Somewhere along the way (I think midstream Type 4, or maybe when the Type 5 keyboard was introduced?) the mice changed to a high-resolution flavor with a denser grid on the optical mouse pad. Predictably, old and new mice and pads don't work with each other. -Frank McConnell From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun May 16 02:55:39 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Compaq P III description Re: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990515165303.3a8fbac4@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at May 15, 99 04:53:03 pm Message-ID: <199905160755.AAA22192@saul4.u.washington.edu> > OK Here goes: The P III is a 8/12 Mhz 286 portable with 640K or RAM > standard and a 20 or 40 Mb hard drive standard. There are lots of options > for it including a pod that hooks on the back and connects through the > little sliding door there. The Pod has one 8 bit and one 16 bit ISA slots > in it. The pod door is a bastard to get open and the pod is a bastard to ^^^^^^^^ I will not make jokes about _2001_. I will not make jokes about _2001_. I will not... -- Derek From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sun May 16 04:00:25 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: WANTED: VMS Orange Wall In-Reply-To: References: <199905160111.AA16023@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199905160900.TAA05772@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 19:14 15/05/99 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: >That's right, Orange is V4.x and Grey is V5.x, isn't V3 Blue? I seem to >remember hearing either V1 or V2 is white (there was actually a USENET >thread on this a couple months ago). OK, it's been a long while, but I know that V3 manuals were Blue, and V1 were white. I just can't remember what V2 were, I suspect blue as well, but wouldn't be surprised that they were white. My first major VMS systems programming job was to upgrade an 11/780 from 2.4 to 3.0. It took most of a weekend, not helped by the fact that you had to install different versions of the microcode at various points during the upgrade, and it took 30+ minutes to discover that you'd got the wrong one in. The 8" floppy on an 11/78x was not renowned for speed. ISTR that the interface was one bit wide. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 16 06:12:30 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 15, 19:10) References: Message-ID: <9905161212.ZM16414@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 15, 19:10, Tony Duell wrote: > I did have the circuits in front of me. I always find it better to argue > from possible facts :-).... But that takes all the fun (risk) out of it :-) > > There were no less than three versions of the black linear PSU. None of > > them were satisfactory, but only one, the "adapter and converter", earned > > the obvious nickname. > > I think I've only seen one of them. Which is the particularly bad one? It has a label identifying it as "Adapter/Eliminator" or similar. They're *very* rare, partly because Acorn tried to recall them, and partly because not many were sent out before the problem was spotted. There's one fairly common one, which *isn't* particularly prone to go "phut", and that's probably what you have. The only thing wrong with that one is that it doesn't have much spare capacity, and therefore has no connector for a disk (or w.h.y.). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 16 10:04:10 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: WANTED: VMS Orange Wall Message-ID: <199905161504.AA04997@world.std.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 16, 99 11:12:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1592 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990516/732a359c/attachment.ksh From cube at msn.fullfeed.com Sun May 16 11:54:37 1999 From: cube at msn.fullfeed.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:03 2005 Subject: Univac 9200 (Was Re: Altair, pfeh! I own a Univac.) In-Reply-To: <199905042116.RAA27089@platy.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <199905161657.LAA12729@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com> The Univac 9200 was a combination device. It was, if I remember correctly, a minimal general purpose computer. However, the only application I know of for the device was as a remote job entry station for Univac 1100 series mainframes. The Univerisity of Wisconsin had some on campus, and I used one at the Univerisity of Wisconsin/MKE my senior year of high school. The predecessor was the 1004. (An interesting sidenote here was that the IBM 1410 at the UW School of Business had some special purpose hardware built for it and a Univac 1004 emulator program written for it). At 05:16 PM 5/4/99 -0400, you wrote: >Well, okay, parts of one. Big parts. > >For now it is in storage. Guess I have to get a basement next. > >I'm not even sure exactly what I've got. It is from a Univac 9200. >Looks like a line printer and control console in one very big box, >about the size of desk, but maybe twice as tall. Switches & lights, >and discrete transistors. It was the box that had the "Univac 9200" >label on it, so maybe (hopefully) it is the CPU. When I move it >from its current temporary home to a more permanent one, I'll get >pix & details. > >There is another box that I didn't get, but may still end up with >after its winner picks a few bits out of it. Seems _he_ actually >has customers still running these things, and needs a few specific >parts. So even if I get it, it won't be complete. But I can't >complain, with those parts going to keep another Univac running. > >Also got a card punch, which I got home by partially disassembling >it, to make it fit in my car. When I opened it up, I found a three >ring binder labelled "Univac Servicing Documents" - schematics, >mech drawings, all sorts of good stuff! > >So, anybody know anything about 9200's? A web search didn't turn >up much. Introduced in June 1967, 8K of memory, that's about it. > > Bill. > >(Man, this is awesome!) > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection Jay.Jaeger@msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube From wanderer at bos.nl Sun May 16 14:09:27 1999 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: MINC-11 documentation References: <199905161657.LAA12729@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com> Message-ID: <373F17E7.4753@bos.nl> Anybody intrested in the following documentation? REAL-11/MNC Fortran Programmers Reference Manual, MINC-11 Book1 - Introduction to MINC Minc-11 Book2 - MINC Programming Fundamentals MINC-11 Book3 - MINC Programming Reference MINC-11 Book5 - MINC IEEE Bus Programming MINC-11 Book7 - Working with MINC Devices MINC-11 Book8 - MINC System Index Ed - The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun May 16 12:20:05 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures Message-ID: <19990516172005.14088.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > Hi Ethan, > > Good luck, I've scoured the Flea Market twice (once on Friday and once > today) and there just ain't any DEC stuff here. Not much at all. I spotted a few uVAX 2000's and a uVAX 3100. > I did find a PDP-8 core stack but it was in a display case at my friends > office where we got some free tickets (sigh.) Ugh. > I did pick up some Nifty LCDs though for $7 that I'm going to use to create > a "disk bay console" ala the Linux stuff. I'm very familiar with them; I wrote the LCDProc driver for the B.G.Micro "PIC-an-LCD" serial<->LCD adapter chip. From the white tent in the back corner of the flea market, I got a box of 20x2 florescent displays for $20 (different protocol, same concept as the LCDs). If you want to write offline about interfacing LCDs, let me know. -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun May 16 12:24:18 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention report Message-ID: <19990516172418.13474.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> As has already been mentioned, Dayton is _not_ the place to go to look for used DEC parts. I only spotted a couple of table-top uVAXen. I did get a Kaypro 2 for $25 (and the kid dragged to my car!), a $2 VIC-20 with $1 C2N and some modern stuff. I didn't spend anywhere near as much as I usually do. Not all that many things lept out at me. There were scads of $5 and $10 Pentium boards, crates of ISA NICs and lots of stuff that just isn't all that interesting. I did make the T-shirts, one from the photo of a working PDP-8/e and one from the scan of the marketing literature. The text above and below the picture said: Wanted: PDP8's Report all sightings to classiccmp@u.washington.edu Several people walked up and started conversations based on seeing two of us wandering around with a PDP on our backs. Nobody had any spares. :-( P.S. - where's a good place to get a Kaypro boot disk? I have a licensed copy of teledisk so I should be able to make them from bits, yes? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun May 16 13:14:02 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) References: Message-ID: <373F0AEA.2F1B@mcmanis.com> [John Lawson recounted an Ebay scam that I've deleted for brevity.] This may or may not be a scam. At least two (and like cockroaches if you see two you know there are really dozens) surplus electronic shop owners use Ebay as follows. o Follow the auctions that people are holding for stuff they have. o When the auction finishes offer their own stuff to the second through - 'n' bidders (depending on qty and price) For the surplus seller this has two benefits, 1) they don't have to hold an auction and 2) they don't have to pay ebay fees. Since often times Ebay items sell for more than they have these things listed for in their shops its a good deal for them. Of course the scam might work as well but only if the seller didn't have and ebay handle that was either their email address or similar to their real name. --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun May 16 13:17:34 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: LCDs (Re: PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures) References: <19990516172005.14088.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <373F0BBE.2C31@mcmanis.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I'm very familiar with them; I wrote the LCDProc driver for the B.G.Micro > "PIC-an-LCD" serial<->LCD adapter chip. I did some further research on them and these Optrex LCDs have an LED backlight, are 160 x 128 can be run in graphics mode, character mode, or both, and run through an 8 bit I/o port. I'm going to hack together a 68HC11 to drive it (and give me a serial interface) so that I can do both graphics and curses type displays. I'm pretty excited. I went back on Saturday and they were all gone (doh!) So I've only go the two. --Chuck From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun May 16 14:26:09 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <373F0AEA.2F1B@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > This may or may not be a scam. At least two (and like cockroaches if you > see two you know there are really dozens) surplus electronic shop owners > use Ebay as follows. > o Follow the auctions that people are holding for stuff they > have. > o When the auction finishes offer their own stuff to > the second through - 'n' bidders (depending on qty > and price) This is an excellent point, and yet another dark facet of e-bay I hadn't thought of... maybe for good reasons. And I spent years in the electronic and aerospace surplus business.. I've been at thousands of auctions of all kinds, good, bad, and really ugly. But in the case that I transplanted, note that the bidding was for a ham radio Repeater, a device that is a) not made in quantity because b) not that many people have use for them. And the other 'scam' tip-off to me was that the scammer is here in California, where a good portion of the repeater frequency pairs have been allocated for years. And note that he solicited money orders from people who were obviously bidding on a one-of-a-kind item. I just thought it sounded fishy. Okay, I don't want to start a big sort-of-off-topic flame fest, just to give my Listfriends some info. If anyone is reading this who wants more info on just what a 'repeater' is and what it does, e-mail me off the list and I'll be happy to provide. Cheers John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 16 15:30:47 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old)" (May 16, 16:22) References: Message-ID: <9905162130.ZM1014@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 16, 16:22, Tony Duell wrote: > [BBC power supplies] > I'd love to see circuits for all the versions, or at least circuit > descriptions. On the other hand, Acorn PSU schematics are generally hard > to find for some odd reason. I never saw schematics for any of the black ones; I've got the diagram for the Astec as you know. I once did have a note of what the chopper was -- or rather, I had a part number that worked. I worked for Computer Field Maintenance for a while, and we used to repair them (though they didn't actually fail very often. They seem to be pretty robust). BSR made a copy under license, but the BSR ones don't seem to be so good -- not so well regulated, for a start, so not so tolerant of overloads. > All my Beebs have the traditional Astec SMPSUs. BTW, does anyone know > what the chopper transistor is in these units? It's the same in virtually > all Astec supplies - a TO3 can on a small PCB/heatsink mounted at right > angles to the main board. There is never a number on it. All I can remember is that it's NPN, I think. I'll dig through some old files if I can figure out a way to read the old winchester backups, and see... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 16 15:41:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Acorn RiscPC 600 (OT - only 5 years old) In-Reply-To: <9905162130.ZM1014@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 16, 99 08:30:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 336 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990516/c5be3bcb/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun May 16 15:45:24 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: LCDs (Re: PDP-8/e frontpanel pictures) Message-ID: <19990516204524.19262.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I'm very familiar with them; I wrote the LCDProc driver for the B.G.Micro > > "PIC-an-LCD" serial<->LCD adapter chip. > > I did some further research on them and these Optrex LCDs have an LED > backlight, are 160 x 128 can be run in graphics mode... Fancy. I would have loved to have seen graphical LCDs. I've only had the text-mode (with programmable characters) to play with. Have you been to the LCDProc site? (lcdproc.omnipotent.net) It's the one that I'm most familiar with, and is very well along the development chain. > I'm pretty excited. I went back on Saturday and they were all gone (doh!) > So I've only go the two. Bummer. -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 16 16:16:13 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Mop booting (8) 3100'S ? Message-ID: <199905162116.AA22909@world.std.com> Hello, I've been playing with my Atari 800 a bit, and the frustrating thing is I can't get the disk drive to work. When the drive is on and with a disk in it (is spins itself up alright) and turn on the computer, it doesn't try to read the disk (my last Atari, and 800XL I think.. did). In BASIC, any disk command (XIO, open, load, save, etc) give me an error that I looked up and means something to the effect of 'drive not present'. I've tried several utilities (myutil) on my PC to write the disks with mydos or ataridos, but I don't know if they're working as I can't write or read any disks. Any ideas, please? Thanks, Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k@one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon@nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun May 16 17:17:23 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: New Finds Message-ID: <000001be9fe9$df32d740$bd711fd1@5x86jk> Well this week was pretty busy at auctions and checking thrift stores around town. Many items were picked up with the following being of some interest. a Epson Geneva PX-8 with built in micro cassette and rechargeable batteries at Goodwill for $3 a Wang desktop with monitor, unit is gray in color and believe a 286. a Kaypro repair Manual covering units up to the model 16 for 25 cents at thrift. Commodore items like a 1902 monitor, 128 unit with 1571 drive. $5 for all some Mac 128 and 512 units, some were tossed as I have too many of these. many Tandy units in the 1000 series. That's it for now. John From at264 at osfn.org Sun May 16 17:27:50 1999 From: at264 at osfn.org (Russ Goodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > This may or may not be a scam. At least two (and like cockroaches if you > > see two you know there are really dozens) surplus electronic shop owners > > use Ebay as follows. > > o Follow the auctions that people are holding for stuff they > > have. Whatzat mean? > > o When the auction finishes offer their own stuff to > > the second through - 'n' bidders (depending on qty > > and price) Fun. _ _ -=- Take Any Key Off Your Keyboard And Eat It To Continue -=- ~ ~ From donm at cts.com Sun May 16 17:56:48 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention report In-Reply-To: <19990516172418.13474.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: ________O/_______ O\ > P.S. - where's a good place to get a Kaypro boot disk? I have a licensed > copy of teledisk so I should be able to make them from bits, yes? E-mail me the EPROM number(s) that are on a paper label on the chip and I can send a TeleDisk image to you. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/ visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://www.devili.iki.fi/cpm/ with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm/ From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun May 16 19:16:58 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Northstar Update In-Reply-To: References: <005001be7874$dc6e2ce0$02932599@office1> Message-ID: OK, I ran through the Integrated Systems tests in the Northstar Horizon Computer System manual and I've discovered a few things. 1. I don't think it's the floppy drive or the controller or the disks. According to the steps that I completed successfully, the problem is most likely with the RAM conflicting with the PROM address on the MDS-A3 disk controller. 2. I pulled ALL the RAM out of the machine, as per the instructions, and put just the RAM A3 (16k N* card) into the machine for testing. BUT, after testing, I pulled it out and found one of the bypass caps is broken off at the board surface (easy fix). QUESTIONS: I can repair the RAM 16 A3 but I don't have the switch settings and jumper settings (J) to set it to start at 2000H. What are these? Also, I have a RAM 16 A2 board that I can try. Are the switch settings and the jumper settings on it the same as the A3 to start at location 2000H? Finally, will NSDOS run in 16K ram? I see no indication in the manuals that it won't but it's a good question to ask anyway. Thanks... Anthony Clifton >I pulled the Northstar Horizon out of storage now that I have time >to take another crack at restoring it. It has an MDS-A3 controller, >which I connected to an MPI-52 full-height 5.25" drive. When I boot >it, I can hear it jiggle the heads a few times (a good sign generally) >but then it just spins the disk for a minute (I can't hear the heads >moving) and then stops. From chemif at mbox.queen.it Sun May 16 22:35:23 1999 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: My "Fresh Meat" at Easter Forli' Hamfest (Re: Fresh Meat) Message-ID: <199905170335.FAA10179@beta.queen.it> At 17:17 15/05/99 +1, Hans wrote: >> >I just picked up a Copmaq Portable PLUS (DM 35), a >> >Portable III (DM 40), >> >Is there any site with information on the Compaq Portabele III ? Yesterday and today I "lived" inside the pavillions of Forli' expocenter where every year take place the Easter Hamfest. I have also picked a Compaq Portable II at 26 Eu (abt.27 U$D) It's a 8086 luggable machine with CRT -> VERY HEAVY! I've also picked: -WISE WY 3216-40 (@ 15 EU no monitor)It's a 386 with the processor and the RAM mounted in two different ISA cards, linked thru a upper connector. The keyboard is the classical WY 160 grey terminal keyboard with mmj connector. The system has a nice LCD retro-illuminated display and a big Megnetic Peripherals MFM (noisy) disk that reached the edge of his days. -C=ommodore PC 20 III (@ only 13 EU, no monitor) mint conditions 3,5 fdd probably a 286. -Some printers (bought not as vintage machines) - HP 320, HP520 (both @ 57 EU) - 2x Epson FX850 @ 35 EU each (they were used by REUTERS somewhere) The man that sold me the Wyse has also a Mannesmann Tally 8 bit optical tape reader @62 EU. I saw a very similar device inside a frontpanel of a automatic plasma welding machine as a numeric controller. I have taken a picture with my digital camera and I will put it on a webpage someday (I just started a HTML/Frontpage course this week) The reader was new inside its carton box and the man told that he still have 15 available. Another couple of yummy think I've seen where a Sinclair ZX 81 and a TIMEX 1000 The bad new where the prices (please seat safetly): 150 EU the first :( and abt. 220 EU the second!!! :o >P.S.: and speaking of today, new members of my junk yard are: snip! >Olivetti CTV 250 Typewriter/Textprocessor (back in the 80s, Olivetti >had the most impressive design, not just grey boxes - I still would >love to get hands on one of these small BASIC able 'handheld' systems >as they where in unse in a lot of Cambio (Money Change) shops - top >notch design and a cute interior) BASIC "handeld"? can you explain more about that? you mean the P.O.S./BANCOMAT small units with thermal printer? In case you like that kind of Oilvetti design, it's possible to contact many wharehouse near Ivrea that stocks also new machines, E.G. the TE550 teletype machine that I've bought new @ 92 EU while 3 years ago it was sold to the National Postal Service @ abt. 2500 EU!! ;D Ciao Riccardo Romagnoli I-47100 Forl? From svs at ropnet.ru Sun May 16 20:50:54 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Compaq P III description Re: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990515165303.3a8fbac4@intellistar.net>; from Joe on Sat, May 15, 1999 at 04:53:03PM +0000 References: <3.0.1.16.19990514133415.3af7b850@intellistar.net> <199905141604.SAA09144@horus.mch.sni.de> <199905151517.RAA12881@horus.mch.sni.de> <3.0.1.16.19990515165303.3a8fbac4@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <19990517055054.27708@firepower> On Sat, May 15, 1999 at 04:53:03PM +0000, Joe wrote: > installed inside the main case. There are also two optional memory expander > boards that can be installed. Each hold up to six standard SIMMs. The > SIMMs can be either 256K or 1Mb types so you can have a total of 6.6Mb of > RAM in the PIII. One type of expander board makes the memory appear as > extended memory and the other makes it appear as expanded memory. Are schematics of these expander boards available? In case I don't manage to obtain one of them locally, I might just build it myself. > Although the literature only lists 20 and 40 Mb hard drives as being > available, Compaq's spare parts list shows several other models including a Speaking of Compaq parts: what is this? Software? Documentation? 114844-001 DIRECT GRAPHICS INTERFACE STANDARD > The screen on the P III has VGA resolution not CGA. It supports all CGA modes and 640x400 monochrome graphics mode (0x40 and 0x74). -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun May 16 21:50:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Compaq P III description Re: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: <199905160755.AAA22192@saul4.u.washington.edu> References: <3.0.1.16.19990515165303.3a8fbac4@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990516215047.3b6f2ea8@intellistar.net> At 12:55 AM 5/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >> OK Here goes: The P III is a 8/12 Mhz 286 portable with 640K or RAM >> standard and a 20 or 40 Mb hard drive standard. There are lots of options >> for it including a pod that hooks on the back and connects through the >> little sliding door there. The Pod has one 8 bit and one 16 bit ISA slots >> in it. The pod door is a bastard to get open and the pod is a bastard to > ^^^^^^^^ > >I will not make jokes about _2001_. I will not make jokes about _2001_. I >will not... ROFL!!! Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 16 21:16:26 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Northstar Update Message-ID: <199905170216.AA02644@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990516190840.22373834@earthlink.net> At 09:11 PM 5/15/99 -0400, Allison wrote: >That's the one. Lost my copy (a whole xerox paper box of 3+years) two major >moves ago. A copy of that would be of some help. Finding patterns for >stringing the core plane is tough. > >Allison > It is 11 pages, if you want me to mail you a copy. I can see stringing the X lines: solder one end to a printed circuit pad, put on the number of cores, then solder the free end, pulling the wire tight. The enamel, such as nylon, that one can solder through would be helpful. For the Y lines, similarly, except you have to decide the orientation of each core and feed the wire through. The sense line can be diagonal, or, another example, parallel (both directions) to one axis. That axis is driven first and a delay is given to wait for the noise to die down. Some of the other schemes with closed spaced cores, I do not see how anyone could run the sense lines! -Dave From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun May 16 01:31:56 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: good source of obscure IBM parts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >As the new owner of an abandoned IBM product (Thinkpad Power Series 850, >1995, not on topic, though highly advanced at the time and now abandoned) >I was wondering if anybody had any favourite IBM remarketers they turned >to when in need of IBM unobtanium, or were chummy with any warehouse >managers... > >I'm willing to throw money at this one, it's too close to being Really >Cool to not. (: > >For those unfamiliar with the Thinkpad Power Series line, they are IBM's >brief foray into the RS/6000 laptop market. The 850 sports a 100 MHz PPC >603e (not speedy) and a surprising array of multimedia capabilities >(including NTSC video I/O), and runs AIX up to 4.1.5, or 4.2.something if >one feels lucky. One sold at the way overpriced otherwise auction I was at Friday (CalComp in Anaheim CA) for about $125, so I wonder about rareness or really coolness. Anyway what exactly are you looking for? My two favorite tricks with IBM are, do a variety of searches (hotbot, yahoo, lyco, et al and dejanews) on the part number and its FRU, and check the places that advertise in Processor (a newspaper looking ad sheet for old hardware). From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun May 16 01:50:09 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Since the email address of the seller in the original auction was >overlooked (you would have to do a search of past auctions to get a > peek at it) this person played the part very well as the owner and >managed to get two money orders sent to him. > >The address he uses is a mail drop on XXXXX Rd in Xxxxx Xxxxxx, CA. >If you see this street come up in any dealings with a person out in >that area BEWARE! Do you actually know this scam to be real? If true this is just mail fraud and I would suspect not too hard to trace and prosecute. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun May 16 23:44:26 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: OT - Rantish, but a warning Message-ID: <199905170444.WAA31911@calico.litterbox.com> Way off topic here, and rantish to boot, but just to give y'all a heads up - Don't install Internet Explorer 5. Bunches of reasons, but my big one is this: If you are ill advised enough to uninstall explorer 4, you *can't* get 5 off your system. And at least when I tried it has destabilized my system to the point my desktop crashes about every 10 minutes. I'll be migrating to BeOS as soon as they mail my copy to me. *grumble* On the other hand, and considerably more on topic, the new hobbiest media for openVMS is supposedly going to be available on the 18th of this month from http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/media.html. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 17 00:31:08 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: OT - Rantish, but a warning In-Reply-To: <199905170444.WAA31911@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: >Way off topic here, and rantish to boot, but just to give y'all a heads up >- Don't install Internet Explorer 5. Bunches of reasons, but my big one is >this: > >If you are ill advised enough to uninstall explorer 4, you *can't* get 5 >off your system. And at least when I tried it has destabilized my system >to the point my desktop crashes about every 10 minutes. I'll be migrating >to BeOS as soon as they mail my copy to me. *grumble* > >On the other hand, and considerably more on topic, the new hobbiest media >for openVMS is supposedly going to be available on the 18th of this month from >http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/media.html. Note, the 18th isn't set in stone, they plan on making a big announcement in the newsgroups and on their web page once it's available. I sure hope it's by the 18th :^) On the topic of Web Browsers, be aware the OpenVMS version of Netscape 3.0 has problems with 8-bit displays. A good example is www.zdnet.com, it's pretty much unviewable from OpenVMS if you're running Netscape. IIRC, Mosaic has the same problem. Nothing like a black page when you get to the article you want. If you've a 24-bit display there doesn't seem to be a problem, but since my Mac is my 24-bit display for OpenVMS I won't guarentee it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From davhos at magna.com.au Mon May 17 01:12:33 1999 From: davhos at magna.com.au (David Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Kermit-11 user manual Message-ID: <000f01bea02c$4206ce20$2c486fcb@default> Is anybody interested in a copy of a kermit-11 user manual dated 1985 I don't have the software just the manual. Kermit-11 is a file transfer program that runs under RT-11 and posibly other PDP11 systems such as RSTS, RSX, TSX David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990517/b1548a57/attachment.html From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon May 17 01:18:03 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: GRiD Compass 1101 now online! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14-May-99, Tony Duell wrote: >> So... GPIB is the same as IEEE-488? Anyone got an adapter cable for >> GRiD-to-CBM? :) >GPIB, HPIB and IEEE-488 are basically the same interface. Same signals, >same timing, same pinouts. There are minor differences in the spec (for >example : IEEE-488 doesn't specify the character code to use, but I >believe HPIB implies ASCII), but I've never had any problems >interconnecting these interfaces. Does the interface also specify how to communicate with devices? I mean, if I hooked up my CBM 2040, would the GRiD know that it is a storage device and be able to use it? I image this could be possible, because the IEEE-488 devices are intelligent, and the 2040 has its DOS built-in, but I don't *know* that it will work. I don't have the cabling to do this, unfortunately, else I would have already tried. I only have the PET-to-IEEE-488 cable (the PET uses an edge connector). The connector on the 2040, of course, is the same sex as the GPIB connector on the GRiD. There is a menu item in GridManager (I think) for adding or removing devices. When I select that, the GRiD goes away for a while then comes back. It's probably polling the GPIB bus to see who's out there. >One problem you may have. The PET expects to be the System Controller, >and AFAIK, can't pass control to another controller (things like REN >and IFC are always outputs, for example). The Grid might behave >similarly. In which case you can't simply cable them together :-( That's a shame. I don't think there would be much use in doing it anyway, though, except for transferring small files (<8K) to and from the PET's RAM, for storage on cassette. I only have a PET 2001-8K. >There have been 'mailboxes' to go between 2 separate GPIB systems, but >they're not that easy to find. Heh. Probably an understatement. :) >But the Grid should be able to talk to CBM disk drives and printers... Without additional software? Gosh it would be nice to have an assembler or BASIC on that bubble device... >-tony -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon May 17 01:58:51 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: GRiDCASE 1520 update Message-ID: Greetings, I got the (assumed) GRiDCASE 1520 doing something today! In fact, it's running an Apple ][ emulator right now. :) The hard drive was totally hosed. Seized. Dead. On a hunch, I opened up the Toshiba T1200 (which I can't use without appropriate power supply) and extracated its HD. I was happy to see that the Toshiba's drive used the same connector. I guess it's a standard laptop drive. (Isn't it fitting that my very first working laptop was also (more-or-less) the very first laptop? :) ) When I cracked open the outer case, I was even happier to see that the Toshiba's drive was also 20MB and made by JVC. Toshiba's drive: JD3824G01-4 GRiD's drive: JD3824G00-2 I figured they'd be the same drive, but methinks I was wrong. With the Toshiba's drive in place, the GRiD now powers up the drive at the appropriate time, and I guess the drive passes whatever test it needs to pass, and then the GRiD is able to boot from floppy. But I haven't been able to access the HD yet. It just makes unpleasant noises when I try. I don't have the proper SETUP program for the GRiD, but shouldn't FDISK be able to tell me what's there anyway? Or is the busted SETUP possibly the only thing wrong now? Gah! Anyway, the GRiD didn't complain about the clock not being set, even after an hour of being turned off. But the clock also didn't advance in that time. The battery says it's non-rechargable, but I'm still hoping it will recover. :) BTW, what a freaking pain working in the Toshiba is, compared to the GRiD! Plastic framework that goes all over the place, multiple different screw types in annoying places, etc. Getting the case open with no instructions was easier, but once inside it's harder to deal with. Or maybe I'm just used to the GRiDCASE's innards now. :) -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 17 02:04:37 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Kermit-11 user manual In-Reply-To: "David Hoskins" "Kermit-11 user manual" (May 17, 16:12) References: <000f01bea02c$4206ce20$2c486fcb@default> Message-ID: <9905170804.ZM1557@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 17, 16:12, David Hoskins wrote: > Subject: Kermit-11 user manual > Kermit-11 is a file transfer program that runs under RT-11 and posibly = > other PDP11 systems such as RSTS, RSX, TSX It not only runs under those operating systems, but under just about every system known to man... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From red at bears.org Mon May 17 02:52:39 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: good source of obscure IBM parts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > One sold at the way overpriced otherwise auction I was at Friday (CalComp > in Anaheim CA) for about $125, so I wonder about rareness or really > coolness. Anyway what exactly are you looking for? ARRGH, don't tell me these things. I cannot begin to describe how depressing it is to hear that. Certainly they're less common than SPARCbooks, and ever so slightly more robust on the features front. I'm looking for the larger disk, the optional video camera attachment, and with any luck a spare LCD panel of the higher-resolution variety. I'm a bit dissapointed that the previous owner opted for the 640x480 model. X at tht resolution is a trial of patience. ok r. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 17 04:53:53 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention report In-Reply-To: <19990516172418.13474.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: <199905170754.JAA17872@horus.mch.sni.de> > I did make the T-shirts, one from the photo of a working PDP-8/e and one > from the scan of the marketing literature. The text above and below the > picture said: > Wanted: PDP8's > Report all sightings to classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Several people walked up and started conversations based on seeing two of > us wandering around with a PDP on our backs. Nobody had any spares. :-( Say, what about a licenced copy of your T ? Gruss H. -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 17 04:53:53 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Compaq P III description Re: Fresh Meat In-Reply-To: <19990517055054.27708@firepower> References: <3.0.1.16.19990515165303.3a8fbac4@intellistar.net>; from Joe on Sat, May 15, 1999 at 04:53:03PM +0000 Message-ID: <199905170754.JAA17881@horus.mch.sni.de> > > installed inside the main case. There are also two optional memory expander > > boards that can be installed. Each hold up to six standard SIMMs. The > > SIMMs can be either 256K or 1Mb types so you can have a total of 6.6Mb of > > RAM in the PIII. One type of expander board makes the memory appear as > > extended memory and the other makes it appear as expanded memory. > Are schematics of these expander boards available? In case I don't manage > to obtain one of them locally, I might just build it myself. DOn't know, but the fancy part isn't the board - itÄs the hook on case to house the boards. Without, a solution wouldn't be portable an more. > > The screen on the P III has VGA resolution not CGA. > It supports all CGA modes and 640x400 monochrome graphics mode (0x40 and > 0x74). Maybe ther's a difference between the plasma and the LCD screen ? Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sun May 16 23:27:34 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: GRiDCASE 1520 update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905170821.EAA21043@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:58:51 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Doug Spence > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: GRiDCASE 1520 update > X-To: ClassicCmp > > Greetings, > > I got the (assumed) GRiDCASE 1520 doing something today! > > In fact, it's running an Apple ][ emulator right now. :) > > The hard drive was totally hosed. Seized. Dead. HD that calls itself JVC that trails 26pin after it is dead on the road nearly virtually always! Hated them. Many machines are banging around in trashcans that had this dead HD. That was years before I came across this CC list. :-( Dead JVC 26 ususally spun freely but doesn't want to do anything or trease you with bit of spins. > I figured they'd be the same drive, but methinks I was wrong. With the > Toshiba's drive in place, the GRiD now powers up the drive at the > appropriate time, and I guess the drive passes whatever test it needs to > pass, and then the GRiD is able to boot from floppy. But I haven't been > able to access the HD yet. It just makes unpleasant noises when I try. Needs to LLF it and put s/w on. That nasty noises you heard is GRiD franically trying to boot it up but s/w is not in right places! > Anyway, the GRiD didn't complain about the clock not being set, even > after an hour of being turned off. But the clock also didn't advance in > that time. The battery says it's non-rechargable, but I'm still hoping > it will recover. :) No no no... better replace it anyway! Most likely lithium and you can read the specs on that cell before you have closed it up? > > BTW, what a freaking pain working in the Toshiba is, compared to the 1000XE, 3100/100 easy, 1600 Yuk! So many odd little-bitty parts and thousands of screws of all sizes. I have done on IBM TPs (excellent in obtaining parts even for 5 years old notebooks!), Toshs (design and support sucks now), Compaq totally sucks now in everything. Digital is sorta ok and mildly weird but easily gotten around them. Don't ask me to work on Znote 625 or to rebuild those cells in them! (int. standby/cmos pack used quad AAAA cells, no way to find them had to use discs and chew out bit of plastics and lot of force to bend plastics against it's wills to fit this new pack.) Epson notebooks is out out out! Ditto Samsung sx-25 that acts like 286 10 with 20MB hd. ?1? > Or maybe I'm just used to the GRiDCASE's innards now. :) Don't get too attached! Explode your mind after going thru all these said series I done. :) Best tip: memorize all the screws that each one is removed that associates to which hole. I get lot of impressions and comments that I can remember what screws belongs to by looking even after few days or weeks. Or tape em down to cardboard in right "places" on near-outline of the parts if you have poor memory. Maybe needs ECC memory grey matter graft module? :-) > -- > Doug Spence Wizard From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon May 17 03:29:34 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Rantish Warning about IE 5. In-Reply-To: <199905170444.WAA31911@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "May 16, 1999 10:44:26 pm" Message-ID: <199905170829.EAA23141@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > Way off topic here, and rantish to boot, but just to give y'all a heads up > - Don't install Internet Explorer 5. Bunches of reasons, but my big one is > this: > > If you are ill advised enough to uninstall explorer 4, you *can't* get 5 > off your system. And at least when I tried it has destabilized my system > to the point my desktop crashes about every 10 minutes. I'll be migrating > to BeOS as soon as they mail my copy to me. *grumble* > > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com Boy, my results are very different. IE5 seems to be quicker and more stable than IE 4.02 (the y2k compliant IE4.) I've just started testing it and was considering making it the standard browser at work. Like the rest of Microsoft it appears Your Mileage May Vary. Of course this is with the retail Win95 with the y2k patches rather than OSR 2.x and without the active desktop stuff installed. I'll have to test it on NT as well. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun May 16 23:28:57 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <000001be9fe9$df32d740$bd711fd1@5x86jk> Message-ID: >Well this week was pretty busy at auctions and checking thrift stores around >town. Many items were picked up with the following being of some interest. > >some Mac 128 and 512 units, some were tossed as I have too many of these. This is not the list to say "tossed" on unless you are looking for some flame. I can't think of anything creative right now, but consider yourself flamed at least a little. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikes little list of things to keep from old mac's First off you really should take a swing at finding someone who will take the whole system, maybe even pay for it, or parts of it. Always keep the following; Mice Keyboards cables screws and brackets floppy drives Hard drives if they work Plug in cards Memory motherboards. Smaller chassis parts like little doors or breakout panels. Chassis and tubes are heavy and bulky, so they are the items I don't generally keep. I have yet to toss anything mac though, always finding some who wants it still. From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon May 17 03:46:14 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: good source of obscure IBM parts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I'm looking for the larger disk, the optional video camera attachment, and >with any luck a spare LCD panel of the higher-resolution variety. I'm a >bit dissapointed that the previous owner opted for the 640x480 model. X at >tht resolution is a trial of patience. My guess is the disc will be easy, the rest hard. Here is a good source of information. To subscribe to the list, unsubscribe from the list, or to change your address, send mail to THINKPAD-REQUEST@CS.UTK.EDU. (If you sent your subscribe message to the whole list, that's okay, but please use the -REQUEST address next time!) (THINKPAD is almost certainly a trademark of IBM.) The FAQ for this group is available for anonymous ftp from swiss-ftp.ai.mit.edu, directory pub/archive/thinkpad/faq (URL: ftp://swiss-ftp.ai.mit.edu/archive/thinkpad/faq/ ) Thanks to Sean Chou for maintaining the FAQ. There's also an archive of the past traffic on the list in ftp://swiss-ftp.ai.mit.edu/archive/thinkpad/archive From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 17 05:49:25 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: <000001be9fe9$df32d740$bd711fd1@5x86jk> Message-ID: <199905170850.KAA25446@horus.mch.sni.de> > >Well this week was pretty busy at auctions and checking thrift stores around > >town. Many items were picked up with the following being of some interest. > >some Mac 128 and 512 units, some were tossed as I have too many of these. > This is not the list to say "tossed" on unless you are looking for some > flame. I can't think of anything creative right now, but consider yourself > flamed at least a little. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Mikes little list of things to keep from old mac's > First off you really should take a swing at finding someone who will take > the whole system, maybe even pay for it, or parts of it. > Always keep the following; > Mice > Keyboards > cables > screws and brackets > floppy drives > Hard drives if they work > Plug in cards > Memory > motherboards. > Smaller chassis parts like little doors or breakout panels. Don't forgett the Disks - especialy for the older Macs a fitting bootdisk is _very_ handsome. > Chassis and tubes are heavy and bulky, so they are the items I don't > generally keep. I have yet to toss anything mac though, always finding some > who wants it still. Anyway, Macs are prety neat to stack (especialy the classic ones), and should form a neat wall (maybe for seperation between dining room and kitchen ?) or can be used as base for a desk etc. (I just havn't enough to proove it) Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon May 17 04:03:47 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <199905170850.KAA25446@horus.mch.sni.de> References: <000001be9fe9$df32d740$bd711fd1@5x86jk> Message-ID: >Anyway, Macs are prety neat to stack (especialy the classic ones), >and should form a neat wall (maybe for seperation between dining >room and kitchen ?) or can be used as base for a desk etc. I think one of the people on one of the mac oriented lists I follow has a grid of 4x4 compact macs. Really freaks some people out who see them all in action (yes software exists for doing tricks over cheap appletalk with such a grid). From davhos at magna.com.au Mon May 17 03:02:38 1999 From: davhos at magna.com.au (David Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Australia: 8080A chips, eproms, dynamic rams, i/o chips, data books Message-ID: <000401bea044$573d2d80$31486fcb@default> I have four 8080 computer systems to dispose of. They were used in a dedicated industrial application - not as a readily reprogrammable system. Some of the chips may however be of use to someone - preferably someone who can collect from Chatswood, Sydney Australia. The main chips are (I am only listing chips in sockets) 4 off 8080A about 200 dynamic memory chips. some are marked 4030, others 4060. they are also referred to as 2107B-4 in the documentation. about 25 eproms type 1702A about 12 off 8212 i/o port chips about 30 off chips marked SN74S412. I cannot find this in my old data book but from the circuit they appear to be doing the same job as 8212 Also available are Intel data catalogues from 1976 and 1977 and a Signetics Bipolar and Mos memory databook dated 1977 David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990517/99500067/attachment.html From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Mon May 17 07:03:54 1999 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: FW:[oldies] How to get rid of DEC Rainbow 100's? Message-ID: <3740055a.331806902@mailsun.coleg-powys.ac.uk> As usual, contact the poster rather than myself: On Sun, 16 May 1999 16:28:45 -0700, in comp.sys.dec.micro cryorunner@aol.com (Rhett James Barnes) wrote: >I have a couple of DEC Rainbow 100's here that I want to get rid of. I >feel kind of guilty just throwing them away, as I have a pretty good >collection of origial software with manuals, and one printer, and I >figured that some collector might enjoy having a fairly complete system. >I know it's not a very popular computer, but I figured that there has to >be someone out there. Anyone have any ideas about how to rescue these >things from the garbage can? >-Rhett >cryorunner@aol.com > >PS. Sorry for posting about a 1982 on this 1999 group, but it's been hard >to find an appropriate outlet. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon May 17 07:24:02 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamvention report Message-ID: <19990517122402.14197.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > > I did make the T-shirts, one from the photo of a working PDP-8/e and one > > from the scan of the marketing literature. The text above and below the > > picture said: > > > Wanted: PDP8's > > > Report all sightings to classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > > Several people walked up and started conversations based on seeing two of > > us wandering around with a PDP on our backs. Nobody had any spares. :-( > > Say, what about a licenced copy of your T ? I don't know about getting into _that_ business. It was OK to make a couple of shirts from transfer paper, but it's quite time consuming to print out the sheet, trim the edges, iron the shirt and backing pillowcase, then apply the image. If I owned the image, I'd consider it, but the image that I liked the best was the photo of someone's personal machine; they own the copyright, but were nice enough to let me use the image for my own purposes. -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon May 17 11:32:29 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <199905170850.KAA25446@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > Anyway, Macs are prety neat to stack (especialy the classic ones), > and should form a neat wall (maybe for seperation between dining > room and kitchen ?) or can be used as base for a desk etc. > > (I just havn't enough to proove it) I've tested this hypothesis in the lab and have concluded that they do not stack well. They are angled slightly at the top. With enough Macs you could build a suspension bridge, but I wouldn't drive a car over it. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From Paul_King at ml.com Mon May 17 11:43:40 1999 From: Paul_King at ml.com (Paul King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Who are you? Message-ID: <3740473C.D546C3B7@ml.com> Kind Sirs, I came across a reference to "Classic Computer Collector's Mailing List" on the following web page: http://world.std.com/~mbg/moi_ks10.html I have a small PC (as in IBM PC compatible) collection and would like to maintain contact with others interested in preserving (in operating condition) historically significant examples of these machines. Does your activity cover these little machines? Thank you for your attention. I am, Paul King at Paul_King@ml.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 17 13:10:11 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: core... more In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990514183512.23bf14dc@earthlink.net> References: <199905070243.AA00129@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990517110859.03f666b0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 06:35 PM 5/14/99 +0000, it was written: >The previous mentioned article in Byte is "Coincident Current Ferrite Core >Memories" and is in the July, 1976 Issue. It is very helpful. Could somebody *please* scan this article in and post a URL to it? (I'll host it if it doesn't have web space (and I can scan it too if someone has the issue to loan or can make a good copy of it)) --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 17 13:30:31 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990517112808.03e21de0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 06:27 PM 5/16/99 -0400, Someone asked for clarification on : >> > o Follow the auctions that people are holding for stuff they >> > have. >Whatzat mean? It means that the "dealer" has an item X in their inventory, they see that someone else on Ebay is selling an equivalent X. The dealer follows the auction to completion, when complete, the dealer sends email to the second highest bidder and asks if they would like to purchase the item from them for the price they offered the seller. --Chuck From sethm at loomcom.com Mon May 17 13:39:27 1999 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: core... more In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990517110859.03f666b0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 06:35 PM 5/14/99 +0000, it was written: > >The previous mentioned article in Byte is "Coincident Current Ferrite Core > >Memories" and is in the July, 1976 Issue. It is very helpful. > > Could somebody *please* scan this article in and post a URL to it? (I'll > host it if it doesn't have web space (and I can scan it too if someone has > the issue to loan or can make a good copy of it)) > > --Chuck Hi Chuck (and all), I can't promise anything, but I _THINK_ I have the July '76 issue at home. I seem to remember the Bi-centenial cover (the declaration of independence coming out of a teletype, I think). If I have it, I will scan it for you tonight and post a pointer here. -Seth -- "You know, if there's one thing more destructive | Seth J. Morabito than a hydrogen bomb, it's a hydrogen bomb strapped | sethm@loomcom.com to the back of a MANLY MAN!!!" [James "Kibo" Parry] | Perth ==> * From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 17 14:44:10 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: OT:Jock or Nerd Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990517144410.3bb7435a@intellistar.net> I know this is OT but thought you guys and gals might find it entertaining. Joe > >The answer to the eternal question "Is it better to be a jock or a nerd?", I >submit the following: > >Michael Jordan makes over $300,000 a game. That = $10,000 a minute, at an >average 30 minutes per game. With $40 million in endorsements, he makes >$178,100 a day, working or not. > >If he sleeps 7 hours a night, he makes $52,000 every night while visions of >sugarplums dance in his head. > >If he goes to see a movie, it'll cost him $7.00, but he'll make $18,550 >while he's there. > >If he decides to have a 5 minute egg, he'll make $618 while boiling it. > >He makes $7,415/hr more than minimum wage. > >He'll make $3,710 while watching each episode of Friends. > >If he wanted to save up for a new Acura NSX ($90,000) it would take him a >whole 12 hours. > >If someone were to hand him his salary and endorsement money, they would >have to do it at the rate of $2.00 every second. > >He'll probably pay around $200 for a nice round of golf, but will be >reimbursed $33,390 for that round. > >Assuming he puts the federal maximum of 15% of his income into a tax >deferred account (401k), he will hit the federal cap of $9500 at 8:30 a.m. >on January 1st. > >If you were given a penny for every 10 dollars he made, you 'd be living >comfortably at $65,000 a year. > >He'll make about $19.60 while watching the 100 meter dash in the Olympics. > >He'll make about $15,600 during the Boston Marathon. > >While the common person is spending about $20 for a meal in his trendy >Chicago restaurant, he'll pull in about $5600. > >This Year, he'll make more than twice as much as all U.S. past Presidents >for all of their terms combined. > >Amazing isn't it? > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >However, if Jordan saves 100% of his income for the next 250 years, he'll >still have less than Bill Gates has today. > >Game over. >Nerd wins. > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon May 17 13:41:06 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: Who are you? In-Reply-To: <3740473C.D546C3B7@ml.com> from "Paul King" at May 17, 1999 12:43:40 PM Message-ID: <199905171841.MAA01780@calico.litterbox.com> > Kind Sirs, And madams - at least two of the stellar lights on this group appear to be female. > > I came across a reference to "Classic Computer Collector's Mailing List" > on the following web page: http://world.std.com/~mbg/moi_ks10.html > > I have a small PC (as in IBM PC compatible) collection and would like to > maintain contact with others interested in preserving (in operating > condition) historically significant examples of these machines. > > Does your activity cover these little machines? > > Thank you for your attention. > > I am, > Paul King at > Paul_King@ml.com There's a certain amount of disagreement on whether PCs are classic or not. One camp says that any computer over 10 years old qualifies, another will say that since the PC archetecture is at the core of modern PCs that it doesn't. Personally I say welcome to the group. My collection includes a DOS machine - Amstrad ppc 640 portable. It's a little beat up, but it works, and it's a delight to see some of my old dos software that was just too good to throw out when I cut over to windows run and be useful again. (Example - and it's for sure classic software - Norton Textra Writer. I bought this on a pair of 360k floppies from the campus bookstore when I was an undergrad. It was far slicker than any other DOS word processor I'd ever used and for 26 dollars it was cheaper than most of my books. WordPerfect has more features and Textra writer shows its age by blowing up if you let it try and compute the blocks free on a disk bigger than 512 megs (but you can switch that off) but it's an awfully nice little word processor and the whole shebang fits on one 720k floppy, including the dictionary. That's the only PC in my collection though. I'm mostly interested in Vaxen and (formerly) 8 and 16 bit apples. I have a Commodore 64 in my collection only because a friend was throwing it out and I used to have one, and I have a Kaypro 4/84 I acquired just for something different. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon May 17 13:47:21 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:04 2005 Subject: OT:Jock or Nerd In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990517144410.3bb7435a@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at May 17, 1999 02:44:10 PM Message-ID: <199905171847.MAA01818@calico.litterbox.com> > > I know this is OT but thought you guys and gals might find it entertaining. > > Joe > > > >The answer to the eternal question "Is it better to be a jock or a nerd?", I > >submit the following: > > > >Michael Jordan makes over $300,000 a game. That = $10,000 a minute, at an > >average 30 minutes per game. With $40 million in endorsements, he makes > >$178,100 a day, working or not. > > > >If he sleeps 7 hours a night, he makes $52,000 every night while visions of > >sugarplums dance in his head. > > > >If he goes to see a movie, it'll cost him $7.00, but he'll make $18,550 > >while he's there. > > > >If he decides to have a 5 minute egg, he'll make $618 while boiling it. > > > >He makes $7,415/hr more than minimum wage. > > > >He'll make $3,710 while watching each episode of Friends. > > > >If he wanted to save up for a new Acura NSX ($90,000) it would take him a > >whole 12 hours. > > > >If someone were to hand him his salary and endorsement money, they would > >have to do it at the rate of $2.00 every second. > > > >He'll probably pay around $200 for a nice round of golf, but will be > >reimbursed $33,390 for that round. > > > >Assuming he puts the federal maximum of 15% of his income into a tax > >deferred account (401k), he will hit the federal cap of $9500 at 8:30 a.m. > >on January 1st. > > > >If you were given a penny for every 10 dollars he made, you 'd be living > >comfortably at $65,000 a year. > > > >He'll make about $19.60 while watching the 100 meter dash in the Olympics. > > > >He'll make about $15,600 during the Boston Marathon. > > > >While the common person is spending about $20 for a meal in his trendy > >Chicago restaurant, he'll pull in about $5600. > > > >This Year, he'll make more than twice as much as all U.S. past Presidents > >for all of their terms combined. > > > >Amazing isn't it? > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >However, if Jordan saves 100% of his income for the next 250 years, he'll > >still have less than Bill Gates has today. > > > >Game over. > >Nerd wins. On the other side of the equation, one should somehow factor in the percentage of people wanting to lynch each of them. Fewer is better. Jock wins. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From steverob at hotoffice.com Mon May 17 13:55:46 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Who are you? Message-ID: <01BEA075.592C5D10.steverob@hotoffice.com> > There's a certain amount of disagreement on whether PCs are classic or not. > One camp says that any computer over 10 years old qualifies, another will > say that since the PC archetecture is at the core of modern PCs that it doesn't. > Personally I say welcome to the group. I have no particular interest in 286 and newer machines but, many of those machines do qualify under the 10 year rule so, welcome aboard. Steve Robertson - From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 17 16:08:28 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: PPC (Was: Who are you?) In-Reply-To: <199905171841.MAA01780@calico.litterbox.com> References: <3740473C.D546C3B7@ml.com> from "Paul King" at May 17, 1999 12:43:40 PM Message-ID: <199905171909.VAA23670@horus.mch.sni.de> > > Does your activity cover these little machines? > There's a certain amount of disagreement on whether PCs are classic or not. > One camp says that any computer over 10 years old qualifies, another will > say that since the PC archetecture is at the core of modern PCs that it doesn't. > Personally I say welcome to the group. Anyway, a PC is still a Computer, so you're ok here > My collection includes a DOS machine - Amstrad ppc 640 portable. BTW, Jim - if you need info: with my big Dezember Electronic Fleamarket Haul I got almost 4 cubic ft of PPC 512/640 Docu, including schematics I belive. Servus Hans -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon May 17 14:26:13 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: PPC (Was: Who are you?) In-Reply-To: <199905171909.VAA23670@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at May 17, 1999 09:09:28 PM Message-ID: <199905171926.NAA02039@calico.litterbox.com> > BTW, Jim - if you need info: with my big Dezember Electronic Fleamarket > Haul I got almost 4 cubic ft of PPC 512/640 Docu, including schematics > I belive. > > Servus > Hans > > -- > Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. Wow... um... I got the documentation that normally shipped with the beast, I think, and it functions properly, so I really don't need the deep docs. Thanks for your kind offer though - and also there is a web page for amstrad users with a message base - one of them might want to buy the docs you have. http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cliff.lawson/portable.htm -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From fpp at concentric.net Mon May 17 14:49:20 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (Paul Passmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) Message-ID: <000b01bea09e$5d046a80$21f8adce@paul> >It means that the "dealer" has an item X in their inventory, they see that someone else on Ebay is selling an equivalent X. The dealer follows the auction to completion, when complete, the dealer sends email to the second highest bidder and asks if they would like to purchase the item from them for the price they offered the seller. This is a scam? Give it a break guys. If I bid on something and am not the high bidder I would like a chance to buy. If you don't then don't reply. Sometimes you can get in a bidding war and end up pay many times the value of an item, I.E. Imsai or Altec on Ebay, Is it really that different than making an offer here to someone who has something you want? So who looses if a seller contacts you and you agree on a fair price? Ebay? Time to face the facts Ebay, Yahoo, etc., etc. auctions are going to stay a while. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 17 17:01:43 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: PPC (Was: Who are you?) In-Reply-To: <199905171926.NAA02039@calico.litterbox.com> References: <199905171909.VAA23670@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at May 17, 1999 09:09:28 PM Message-ID: <199905172002.WAA25507@horus.mch.sni.de> > > BTW, Jim - if you need info: with my big Dezember Electronic Fleamarket > > Haul I got almost 4 cubic ft of PPC 512/640 Docu, including schematics > > I belive. > Wow... um... I got the documentation that normally shipped with the beast, > I think, and it functions properly, so I really don't need the deep docs. > Thanks for your kind offer though - and also there is a web page for amstrad > users with a message base - one of them might want to buy the docs you have. > http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cliff.lawson/portable.htm (interesting site anyway) Maybe a missunderstanding, I don't want to sell them - no way - I have two PPC512 and one PPC640, and need them myself - just in case I would like to copy what ever needed. THe PPC is a nice beast, and at its time top notch - better than all the clumbsy Compaqs etc. Sometimes the English do things that are not only somewhat 'unusual' but also real usable. Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 17 17:04:18 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <000b01bea09e$5d046a80$21f8adce@paul> Message-ID: <199905172005.WAA25556@horus.mch.sni.de> Date sent: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:49:20 -0700 > >It means that the "dealer" has an item X in their inventory, they see that > > someone else on Ebay is selling an equivalent X. The dealer follows the > > auction to completion, when complete, the dealer sends email to the second > > highest bidder and asks if they would like to purchase the item from them > > for the price they offered the seller. > This is a scam? Give it a break guys. If I bid on something and am not the > high bidder I would like a chance to buy. If you don't then don't reply. > Sometimes you can get in a bidding war and end up pay many times the value > of an item, I.E. Imsai or Altec on Ebay, Is it really that different than > making an offer here to someone who has something you want? So who looses if > a seller contacts you and you agree on a fair price? As long as the 'new' seller states clearly his role - fine, but as I assumed, the person in question just assumed the identity of the original seller (and did maybe also just take the money ... but thats a different story). Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon May 17 15:19:21 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <000b01bea09e$5d046a80$21f8adce@paul> Message-ID: >>It means that the "dealer" has an item X in their inventory, they see that >someone else on Ebay is selling an equivalent X. The dealer follows the >auction to completion, when complete, the dealer sends email to the second >highest bidder and asks if they would like to purchase the item from them >for the price they offered the seller. > >This is a scam? Give it a break guys. If I bid on something and am not the >high bidder I would like a chance to buy. If you don't then don't reply. >Sometimes you can get in a bidding war and end up pay many times the value >of an item, I.E. Imsai or Altec on Ebay, Is it really that different than >making an offer here to someone who has something you want? So who looses if >a seller contacts you and you agree on a fair price? Ebay? Time to face the >facts Ebay, Yahoo, etc., etc. auctions are going to stay a while. The above was an explanation of the legitimate practice. The abuse is where a third party pretends to be the seller, contacts the second etc. bidders and requests payment be sent to a blind PO Box, then skips with the funds never sending any goods. BTW I just sent an inquiry to eBay to see if this is rumor, hoax, or fact. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon May 17 15:18:54 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: PPC (Was: Who are you?) In-Reply-To: <199905172002.WAA25507@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at May 17, 1999 10:02:43 PM Message-ID: <199905172018.OAA02265@calico.litterbox.com> > > http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cliff.lawson/portable.htm > > (interesting site anyway) > > Maybe a missunderstanding, I don't want to sell them - no way - I have > two PPC512 and one PPC640, and need them myself - just in case I would > like to copy what ever needed. > > THe PPC is a nice beast, and at its time top notch - better than all > the clumbsy Compaqs etc. Sometimes the English do things that are > not only somewhat 'unusual' but also real usable. > > Gruss > H. Ah. Yes I did misunderstand. Sorry. And I fully agree with you about the PPC 640. My favorite feature is the full sized keyboard, which is a real boon to those (like me) fat of finger. It's a solid little machine that does everything right. It's just *heavy* and sadly not very powerful, and has no provision for a hard disk that I've found. (I know they exist, but I'm unclear where they connect and they seem to be rare as hen's teeth.) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From steverob at hotoffice.com Mon May 17 15:22:14 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) Message-ID: <01BEA081.6D442380.steverob@hotoffice.com> > The above was an explanation of the legitimate practice. The abuse is where > a third party pretends to be the seller, contacts the second etc. bidders > and requests payment be sent to a blind PO Box, then skips with the funds > never sending any goods. > > BTW I just sent an inquiry to eBay to see if this is rumor, hoax, or fact. > I always check the email address of the person requesting payment. If it is not the same as listed in Ebay, I would get really suspicious. Steve Robertson - From fpp at concentric.net Mon May 17 15:25:42 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (Paul Passmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) Message-ID: <002301bea0a3$70a00040$21f8adce@paul> >. The abuse is where >a third party pretends to be the seller, contacts the second etc. bidders >and requests payment be sent to a blind PO Box, then skips with the funds >never sending any goods. >BTW I just sent an inquiry to eBay to see if this is rumor, hoax, or fact. This, I agree, is a scam. Problem seems to be that Ebay is just so huge. I heard so much about Ebay here that as a joke I listed an old, empty, Zippo fuel can. It sold for $22.22 plus shipping! My Lord, that explains the stupid prices for old computers on Ebay. These people have no lives and a hell of a lot of money. Now if I only could find that old can of...... From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 17 15:27:39 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 17, 99 01:19:21 pm Message-ID: <199905172027.NAA12390@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990517/919aee09/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon May 17 17:52:30 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <002301bea0a3$70a00040$21f8adce@paul> Message-ID: <199905172053.WAA27070@horus.mch.sni.de> > >. The abuse is where > >a third party pretends to be the seller, contacts the second etc. bidders > >and requests payment be sent to a blind PO Box, then skips with the funds > >never sending any goods. > >BTW I just sent an inquiry to eBay to see if this is rumor, hoax, or fact. > This, I agree, is a scam. > Problem seems to be that Ebay is just so huge. I heard so much about Ebay > here that as a joke I listed an old, empty, Zippo fuel can. It sold for > $22.22 plus shipping! My Lord, that explains the stupid prices for old > computers on Ebay. These people have no lives and a hell of a lot of money. ... check http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99may/19990516.html (can't explane - it's a neat picture :) Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 13:10:56 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Who are you? In-Reply-To: <3740473C.D546C3B7@ml.com> from "Paul King" at May 17, 99 12:43:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1388 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990517/b40303ac/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 12:48:02 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: GRiD Compass 1101 now online! In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at May 17, 99 01:18:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2180 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990517/242806ec/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 12:49:01 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Kermit-11 user manual In-Reply-To: <9905170804.ZM1557@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 17, 99 07:04:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990517/6702aebb/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 17 18:38:21 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Intel Extender cards Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990517183821.48976dec@intellistar.net> Hi all, I picked up a pair of Intel extender cards in my travels and I'm wondering if anyone knows what they might be for. They have two sets of contacts with 80 contacts in each (40 per side per set). The contacts in each set have 1/10" spacing. No, they're not MultiBus :-( They have long guides built onto them to support the card being tested. Any ideas? Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 16:16:57 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Who are you? In-Reply-To: <199905171841.MAA01780@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at May 17, 99 12:41:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1409 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990517/4b21092b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 16:21:55 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: PPC (Was: Who are you?) In-Reply-To: <199905172018.OAA02265@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at May 17, 99 02:18:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1425 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990517/b80d14b3/attachment.ksh From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon May 17 17:37:14 1999 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: B020 Graphics Transputer Board References: Message-ID: <37409A19.E2508C84@olf.com> Tony, Can I get a copy of your specs for the B020 (scanned images if at all possible, if not paper is fine). I want to add it to my webpage as a lot of transputer users I know have these and don't have any docs on these. The Scanned images would be a snap to clean up and convert to HTML with any figures and schematics in gif/jpeg. Thanks for helping out. Cheers, Ram PS: I got my B008 working like a charm. Now I am waiting for the B020 drivers and software to test it out. Currently seeing if I can get XWindows running on the B020. It really is quite difficult, especially without any docs. Download Helios 1.3 from my webpage at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1190 and see if you can get it running on yours. -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | Senior Software Engineer | OpenLink Financial Inc | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From donm at cts.com Mon May 17 17:38:25 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Kaypro manuals available Message-ID: I know that the general level of interest in things Kaypro is low amongst the members of this list; however, I am offering first crack at the items on the following list to the members. I will be posting it to comp.os.cpm on Wednesday or Thursday, but in the meantime it is for classiccmp alone. - don =============== The KAYPRO manuals listed below are available free for the asking, first come first served, however, you must pay shipping costs. Unless otherwise requested, they will be sent via USPS at Book Rate. E-mail your requests, please. Qty Title 5 CALCSTAR USERS MANUAL 5 DATASTAR REFERENCE MANUAL 3 DATASTAR TRAINING GUIDE 5 REPORTSTAR USER REFERENCE MANUAL 3 REPORTSTAR TRAINING GUIDE 1 WORDSTAR TRAINING GUIDE 1 WORDSTAR PROFESSIONAL (Users Manual) 1 MAILMERGE REFERENCE GUIDE 1 SUPERTERM (Communications) 5 KAYPRO CP/M 1 KAYPRO II USERS GUIDE 3 KAYPRO USERS GUIDE 1 KAYPRO 10 USERS GUIDE 3 INTRODUCTION TO SOFTWARE 4 MICROPLAN 1 CBASIC REFERENCE MANUAL 4 MICROSOFT BASIC USERS GUIDE 3 MICROSOFT BASIC QUICK REFERENCE 5 SBASIC 4 MSDOS OPERATING SYSTEM USERS GUIDE 2 PROFITPLAN 4 THE WORD Plus (Spell Checker) 1 PERFECT CALC USERS GUIDE 1 WRITING WITH A WORD PROCESSOR by William Zinsser 2 WORD PROCESSING ON THE KAYPRO by Peter McWilliams 1 KAYPRO WORD PROCESSING PLAIN & SIMPLE by David Lenfest & William Houze =================== From advmedical at earthlink.net Mon May 17 20:42:33 1999 From: advmedical at earthlink.net (Michael Halprin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <3740C589.E4C0ED8D@earthlink.net> I saw your thread...I am also having problems ordering a new drum...the green thing in the front of the machine that has toner all around it....My pages come out white....and I do not think I need toner but rather a new drum.....and I like this printer....but when I call compaq they do not know what the hell I am talking about... michael From elvey at hal.com Mon May 17 18:06:03 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Transfer Drum was:(no subject) In-Reply-To: <3740C589.E4C0ED8D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199905172306.QAA16627@civic.hal.com> Michael Halprin wrote: > I saw your thread...I am also having problems ordering a new drum...the > green thing in the front of the machine that has toner all around > it....My pages come out white....and I do not think I need toner but > rather a new drum.....and I like this printer....but when I call compaq > they do not know what the hell I am talking about... > > michael Hi Michael I doubt your problem is the transfer drum. The fact that it is green means that you have what is called an organic transfer drum. These drums do not go bad all of a sudden since all they are made of is a material that can hold a static charge that will leak off when exposed to light. They tend to fail in streaks. It is also visible by looking at the drum as these failed streaks are missing the green. Your problem is more likely, no high voltage or lack of toner. Many of these printers replace the green drum, as you call it, with the toner. You probably just need to ask for a toner cartridge and not confuse them with the green drum description. If not, it is more likely the high voltage corona supply that has failed. Dwight From elvey at hal.com Mon May 17 18:29:16 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Transfer Drum was:(no subject) In-Reply-To: <199905172306.QAA16627@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <199905172329.QAA16638@civic.hal.com> Dwight Elvey wrote: > If not, it is more likely > the high voltage corona supply that has failed. > Dwight Oops! I forgot to mention that is might be a simple short on the corona wire. Even a small piece of dust that you'd need a magnifying glass to see will be enough to stop the printer from working. Do not put any kind of cleaner on the green drum but the corona wire can be cleaned with alcohal. Be carful not to put any stress on it because it is vary fine and breaks easily. I usually brush along with a q-tip. Brush from the ends towards the center so you don't push grunk to the ends where it would be harder to remove. There are usually three corona wires. One is to precharge the drum, one to reverse the charge on the drum and one to transfer tone from the drum to the paper. Dwight From allisonp at world.std.com Mon May 17 18:48:32 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <199905172348.AA24543@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199905172358.QAA16659@civic.hal.com> Dwight Elvey wrote: > There are usually > three corona wires. One is to precharge the drum, one > to reverse the charge on the drum and one to transfer > tone from the drum to the paper. > Dwight Oops again I was thinking about a copier. Printers only need two wires, on to charge the drum and one to transfer to the drum. So, don't look too much for the third wire. A quick way to check which is failing is to start a print and shut the power off in the middle, while the paper is next to the drum. If the charging wire is working, you'll see the toner on the drum. If so, it is the transfer to paper wire that is bad. Dwight From cmcmanis at freegate.com Mon May 17 19:10:40 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs Message-ID: <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> The general disdain with which PC collecting is met with on this list is understandable, however, I have been thinking there must be something here. I recall the folks who have collected PETs and C64s that are pretty common and "worthless" these days (I saw a new Vic20 in box at the Hamvention that they couldn't _give_ away.) So I've had some thoughts on what might be useful to "collect" when it came to the PC industry and this is what I've come up with: 1) All motherboard types - collecting one each of the "standard" sizes (AT, XT, Baby-AT, etc) 2) Collecting one each of all processor types. 3) Collecting one each of all media types. 4) Collecting all of the video standards. 5) "Famous brands", IBM, Compaq, etc. 6) "Famous peripherals", Bus mouse, XT keyboard, AT keyboard, etc This is something that anyone could start today since, like the computers of yore, this stuff is currently being tossed out. Comments? --Chuck From STSyntor at aol.com Mon May 17 19:07:07 1999 From: STSyntor at aol.com (STSyntor@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: pdp 11/34 CPU - House Broken, Spayed, Likes Kids Message-ID: I have one used (What other kind could there be?) pdp 11/34 CPU and an RL 02 drive. It seems lonely sitting in my garage but I can't bring myself to send it to the local metal recycler. The system was fully operational when replaced by a "Stratus" system. It was operating as some kind of message switch. I also have a rack of "Data Comm General" 1200-9600 modems for dedicated lines. Any interest in these fine specimens? Dave stsyntor@aol.com "Knowledge is power but information can be sold." From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Mon May 17 19:09:32 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Kaypro manuals available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a Kaypro and I run across them all the time. I haven't had time to work on the one I have yet but I have no negativity towards them, remembering my pleasant experiences when I used to go to FOG meetings and copy disks on one. =-) I would like at least the System oriented manuals like the User's Guides, the CPM manuals, and the BASIC manuals. I'll also be happy to keep anything that doesn't find a home in case I discover someone else who needs it. BTW, I dropped a $5 check in the mail this morning to you for the N* disks you sent me a year or so ago. My apologies for the delay. It takes me a while, but I always pay my debts. =-) Thanks! Anthony Clifton >I know that the general level of interest in things Kaypro is low amongst >the members of this list; however, I am offering first crack at the items >on the following list to the members. I will be posting it to comp.os.cpm >on Wednesday or Thursday, but in the meantime it is for classiccmp alone. > > - don >=============== > > The KAYPRO manuals listed below are available free for the asking, > first come first served, however, you must pay shipping costs. > Unless otherwise requested, they will be sent via USPS at Book > Rate. > > E-mail your requests, please. > > > Qty Title > 5 CALCSTAR USERS MANUAL > > 5 DATASTAR REFERENCE MANUAL > 3 DATASTAR TRAINING GUIDE > > 5 REPORTSTAR USER REFERENCE MANUAL > 3 REPORTSTAR TRAINING GUIDE > > 1 WORDSTAR TRAINING GUIDE > 1 WORDSTAR PROFESSIONAL (Users Manual) > 1 MAILMERGE REFERENCE GUIDE > > 1 SUPERTERM (Communications) > > 5 KAYPRO CP/M > > 1 KAYPRO II USERS GUIDE > 3 KAYPRO USERS GUIDE > 1 KAYPRO 10 USERS GUIDE > > 3 INTRODUCTION TO SOFTWARE > > 4 MICROPLAN > > 1 CBASIC REFERENCE MANUAL > > 4 MICROSOFT BASIC USERS GUIDE > 3 MICROSOFT BASIC QUICK REFERENCE > > 5 SBASIC > > 4 MSDOS OPERATING SYSTEM USERS GUIDE > > 2 PROFITPLAN > > 4 THE WORD Plus (Spell Checker) > > 1 PERFECT CALC USERS GUIDE > > 1 WRITING WITH A WORD PROCESSOR by William Zinsser > > 2 WORD PROCESSING ON THE KAYPRO by Peter McWilliams > > 1 KAYPRO WORD PROCESSING PLAIN & SIMPLE by David Lenfest > & William Houze > > >=================== From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 18:20:33 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3740C589.E4C0ED8D@earthlink.net> from "Michael Halprin" at May 17, 99 06:42:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3192 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/2767727b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 19:31:14 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at May 17, 99 05:10:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1722 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/3bde2004/attachment.ksh From dcoward at pressstart.com Mon May 17 19:55:30 1999 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Soviet/Russian classic computers? Message-ID: <4.1.19990517172447.009529d0@199.108.34.2> Hi everyone, I have a friend that is leaving Wednesday for Russia and eastern Europe. She said that she could look around over there for old computers, if I could supply her with some names of computers to look for. Does anyone know the make and model of some classic soviet computers? They don't have to be just "personal" computers. Big Iron is also acceptable. So far, after a web search, the only names I have are the "TESLA" pc that someone brought to VCF 2 and "BESM-6" a mainframe from about 1965. If you can come up with other soviet/russian computers, please copy me as well as the list (so I don't have to wait for the digest) and also give some indication of size (just to help identify them). Thanks in advance, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 17 19:49:55 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Transfer Drum was:(no subject) In-Reply-To: <199905172358.QAA16659@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 17, 99 04:58:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1031 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/e3080405/attachment.ksh From bluoval at mindspring.com Mon May 17 19:54:00 1999 From: bluoval at mindspring.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? Message-ID: <3740BA28.CEA73EFB@mindspring.com> Does anyone know where I can find a few rolls of thermal paper for a TI Silent 700? I have only about half a roll left and don't want to waste what little I have if I can't find more. Is there any suitable replacements for this paper? Robert From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon May 17 19:51:54 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501bea0c8$9fcf0300$50721fd1@5x86jk> The yard here has over 100 early Mac's from the 128, 512, Plus, SE, Classic, to Classic II starting at $5 for just the box to $20 for a complete unit. And must of the thrifts here have them too. So it's not me tossing them I just do not buy them. > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 1999 11:29 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Tossing > > > >Well this week was pretty busy at auctions and checking thrift > stores around > >town. Many items were picked up with the following being of > some interest. > > > >some Mac 128 and 512 units, some were tossed as I have too many of these. > > This is not the list to say "tossed" on unless you are looking for some > flame. I can't think of anything creative right now, but consider yourself > flamed at least a little. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Mikes little list of things to keep from old mac's > > First off you really should take a swing at finding someone who will take > the whole system, maybe even pay for it, or parts of it. > > Always keep the following; > > Mice > Keyboards > cables > screws and brackets > floppy drives > Hard drives if they work > Plug in cards > Memory > motherboards. > Smaller chassis parts like little doors or breakout panels. > > Chassis and tubes are heavy and bulky, so they are the items I don't > generally keep. I have yet to toss anything mac though, always > finding some > who wants it still. > > > From bmahoney at sprint.ca Mon May 17 21:58:44 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs References: <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <3740D764.4B09D3DD@sprint.ca> Good comments. Might not elicit much response but I thought I would add mtc. A plain Vic 20 would be tough to give away but a Vic 20 in its original box with some 'options' would interest me, and I have three already. As for disdain, I can't figure it out unless some folks feel that collectors will drive up the prices somehow, as they have in just about everything else. But collectors also define what is 'collectible' and for anyone who has subscribed to this group for any length of time, you will see that virtually everything about computers is collectible ... to someone. Two side comments, hopefully to illustrate something. 1. Boat motor collectors insist that antique boat motors are worthless. They probably are worthless to anyone but boat motor collectors. Ditto for computers. 2. I once emailed a person about some hand puppets I have, knowing that he recently bought one. Turns out he didn't collect hand puppets but he did collect 'wolf' items, and the puppet he bought was a wolf. So your list of collectible items makes sense, but then someone could just as well collect all the different ICs that are out there, too. My feeling is that there might be a lot of hardware out there, but there seems to be a lack of documentation, both oem and third party. Now, if I see a manual, I pick it up hoping that one day I will either be able to offer assistance or be able to match the hardware to the book. Comments? Brian Chuck McManis wrote: > The general disdain with which PC collecting is met with on this list is > understandable, however, I have been thinking there must be something here. > > I recall the folks who have collected PETs and C64s that are pretty common > and "worthless" these days (I saw a new Vic20 in box at the Hamvention that > they couldn't _give_ away.) > > So I've had some thoughts on what might be useful to "collect" when it came > to the PC industry and this is what I've come up with: > 1) All motherboard types - collecting one each of the "standard" > sizes (AT, XT, Baby-AT, etc) > 2) Collecting one each of all processor types. > 3) Collecting one each of all media types. > 4) Collecting all of the video standards. > 5) "Famous brands", IBM, Compaq, etc. > 6) "Famous peripherals", Bus mouse, XT keyboard, AT keyboard, etc > > This is something that anyone could start today since, like the computers > of yore, this stuff is currently being tossed out. > > Comments? > --Chuck -- http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon May 17 20:08:29 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <000501bea0c8$9fcf0300$50721fd1@5x86jk> from "John R. Keys Jr." at "May 17, 1999 07:51:54 pm" Message-ID: <199905180108.BAA26627@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > The yard here has over 100 early Mac's from the 128, 512, Plus, SE, Classic, > to Classic II starting at $5 for just the box to $20 for a complete unit. > And must of the thrifts here have them too. So it's not me tossing them I > just do not buy them. > And whats the name and address of this yard? -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon May 17 20:06:26 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <3740D764.4B09D3DD@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <000601bea0ca$a76e1540$50721fd1@5x86jk> I do then same every user or technical manual I see I buy it or ask for if someone is throwing it out. It does not matter the age or newness of the manual. John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Brian Mahoney > Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 9:59 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Collecting PCs > > > > Good comments. Might not elicit much response but I thought I > would add mtc. > A plain Vic 20 would be tough to give away but a Vic 20 in its > original box > with some 'options' would interest me, and I have three already. > As for disdain, I can't figure it out unless some folks feel that > collectors > will drive up the prices somehow, as they have in just about > everything else. > But collectors also define what is 'collectible' and for anyone who has > subscribed to this group for any length of time, you will see > that virtually > everything about computers is collectible ... to someone. > > Two side comments, hopefully to illustrate something. 1. Boat > motor collectors > insist that antique boat motors are worthless. They probably are > worthless to > anyone but boat motor collectors. Ditto for computers. 2. I once emailed a > person about some hand puppets I have, knowing that he recently > bought one. > Turns out he didn't collect hand puppets but he did collect > 'wolf' items, and > the puppet he bought was a wolf. So your list of collectible > items makes sense, > but then someone could just as well collect all the different ICs > that are out > there, too. > > My feeling is that there might be a lot of hardware out there, > but there seems > to be a lack of documentation, both oem and third party. Now, if I see a > manual, I pick it up hoping that one day I will either be able to offer > assistance or be able to match the hardware to the book. > Comments? > Brian > > > Chuck McManis wrote: > > > The general disdain with which PC collecting is met with on this list is > > understandable, however, I have been thinking there must be > something here. > > > > I recall the folks who have collected PETs and C64s that are > pretty common > > and "worthless" these days (I saw a new Vic20 in box at the > Hamvention that > > they couldn't _give_ away.) > > > > So I've had some thoughts on what might be useful to "collect" > when it came > > to the PC industry and this is what I've come up with: > > 1) All motherboard types - collecting one each of the "standard" > > sizes (AT, XT, Baby-AT, etc) > > 2) Collecting one each of all processor types. > > 3) Collecting one each of all media types. > > 4) Collecting all of the video standards. > > 5) "Famous brands", IBM, Compaq, etc. > > 6) "Famous peripherals", Bus mouse, XT keyboard, AT > keyboard, etc > > > > This is something that anyone could start today since, like the > computers > > of yore, this stuff is currently being tossed out. > > > > Comments? > > --Chuck > > -- > http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ > http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon May 17 20:11:25 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <199905180108.BAA26627@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <000701bea0cb$59d9be00$50721fd1@5x86jk> It's here in Minneapolis, MN > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Lawrence LeMay > Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 8:08 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Tossing > > > > The yard here has over 100 early Mac's from the 128, 512, Plus, > SE, Classic, > > to Classic II starting at $5 for just the box to $20 for a > complete unit. > > And must of the thrifts here have them too. So it's not me > tossing them I > > just do not buy them. > > > > And whats the name and address of this yard? > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 17 20:24:50 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: >Comments? Collecting PC's? ICK! Having said that this is pretty much what I'd consider collecting. IBM PC IBM PC XT IBM PC AT Kaypro 2000 My current system Any other systems I might currently be using Needless to say, I'm one of those people that isn't hot on the idea of collecting IBM PC's/PC clones. The first three in the above list are covered by a Kapro PC in my collection, and I think I've one other 'collection' PC that was dumped on me. Other than that, basically any PC's I've got are being put to some sort of use. Of course any 386 or higher PC can be used as a firewall if nothing else. BTW, I've a fairly large Mac collection and my main system is a Mac (believe it or not I was PC only from '87-'95). However, the same thing could be said about Mac's. On the other had a 10 year old Mac is a LOT more usable than a 10 year old PC, especially if you've the right software for it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon May 17 20:28:02 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: pdp 11/34 CPU - House Broken, Spayed, Likes Kids In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999 STSyntor@aol.com wrote: > I have one used (What other kind could there be?) pdp 11/34 CPU and an RL 02 > drive. It seems lonely sitting in my garage but I can't bring myself to send > it to the local metal recycler. The system was fully operational when > replaced by a "Stratus" system. It was operating as some kind of message > switch. > I also have a rack of "Data Comm General" 1200-9600 modems for dedicated > lines. > Any interest in these fine specimens? > > Dave > stsyntor@aol.com > "Knowledge is power but information can be sold." > > Cool Dave... depending on the rack it's in, I would give you as much as $100 for the system, hopefully with some software and docs, too... Bring it right over, I'll help you unload it. Hurry, okay? Cheers John From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon May 17 20:32:25 1999 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed Message-ID: <199905180129.UAA20724@trailingedge.com> I've received a ProFILE interface for my Apple II but the spare 5 meg (at least I think it's 5 meg) ProFILE drive I had seems to have died. Does anyone have a spare one available? Maybe someone out in the hardware rich west coast? Or can anyone repair one? It makes a clicking noise as it spins up and keeps clicking as the drive is spinning. Sometime ProDOS can access the drive but most of the time it just returns an error. Any help? Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From Innfogra at aol.com Mon May 17 20:36:02 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Intel Extender cards Message-ID: <5e070aa5.24721e02@aol.com> In a message dated 5/17/99 3:30:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > I picked up a pair of Intel extender cards in my travels and I'm > wondering if anyone knows what they might be for. They have two sets of > contacts with 80 contacts in each (40 per side per set). The contacts in > each set have 1/10" spacing. No, they're not Multibus :-( I suspect they are Multibus II. They look similar to VME cards. My books are still at the whse. I will check when I get down there tonight. Paxton From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 17 20:39:57 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at May 17, 99 05:10:40 pm Message-ID: >But that's _my_ list. You're welcome to collect what you want ;-) and I >hope somebody is collecting the 'boring' clones that I don't bother with, >since otherwise they'll be lost for ever. Interesting point. Odds are a lot are already extinct, I'd imagine that the survival rate of a odd-ball computer (non-Clone PC) better than that of a clone PC. For one thing the Clone PC will be scavanged for parts, for another thing the software will be transplanted to the new system so why not toss the old system in the trash. I still won't be collecting Clone PC's though. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon May 17 20:40:35 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: <3740BA28.CEA73EFB@mindspring.com> Message-ID: >Does anyone know where I can find a few rolls of thermal paper for a TI >Silent 700? I have only about half a roll left and don't want to waste >what little I have if I can't find more. Is there any suitable >replacements for this paper? > >Robert Isn't it just FAX paper? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon May 17 20:46:45 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Kaypro manuals available Message-ID: <19990518014645.18078.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> --- Don Maslin wrote: > > I know that the general level of interest in things Kaypro is low amongst > the members of this list; Some, perhaps. I'm not rife with CP/M, so I'm interested... > 5 KAYPRO CP/M If these are copies of CP/M for the Kaypro (2.2), I'm interested in two, one for me and one for another Kaypro owner here in town. > 1 KAYPRO II USERS GUIDE I'd like this, too. > 3 KAYPRO USERS GUIDE What model? I'm in Columbus, OH (43201). Thanks, -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From dann at greycat.com Mon May 17 21:07:21 1999 From: dann at greycat.com (Dann Lunsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: pdp 11/34 CPU - House Broken, Spayed, Likes Kids References: Message-ID: <3740CB59.62D45B69@greycat.com> STSyntor@aol.com wrote: > > I have one used (What other kind could there be?) pdp 11/34 CPU and an RL 02 > drive. It seems lonely sitting in my garage but I can't bring myself to send > it to the local metal recycler. The system was fully operational when > replaced by a "Stratus" system. It was operating as some kind of message > switch. > I also have a rack of "Data Comm General" 1200-9600 modems for dedicated > lines. > Any interest in these fine specimens? > > Dave > stsyntor@aol.com > "Knowledge is power but information can be sold." Hmmm... Am interested. Very. 'Bout where are you in the world? I'd be willing to drive a bit, from here in Sacramento, California, USA, North American Continent, Sol 3 :-). Especially to rescue a PDP! Dann L. dann@greycat.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon May 17 21:28:15 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed Message-ID: In a message dated 99-05-17 21:33:51 EDT, you write: > I've received a ProFILE interface for my Apple II but the spare 5 > meg (at least I think it's 5 meg) ProFILE drive I had seems to have > died. Does anyone have a spare one available? Maybe someone > out in the hardware rich west coast? Or can anyone repair one? It > makes a clicking noise as it spins up and keeps clicking as the > drive is spinning. Sometime ProDOS can access the drive but > most of the time it just returns an error. Any help? well, if the drive can be accessed somewhat, then it's not a catastrophic failure; maybe a LLF will do it? I've heard that only a lisa and maybe an apple /// are the only computers that can LLF a profile. can anyone verify? From thedm at sunflower.com Mon May 17 21:35:48 1999 From: thedm at sunflower.com (TheDM) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:05 2005 Subject: Soviet/Russian classic computers? References: <4.1.19990517172447.009529d0@199.108.34.2> Message-ID: <001501bea0d7$23e251c0$42097c18@lawrence.ks.us> The main ones I know of are the Pentagon and Scorpion computers, these are z80 based speccy clones. I've been trying to buy one from Ru for a few years with no sucess. ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Coward To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 7:55 PM Subject: Soviet/Russian classic computers? > > > Hi everyone, > I have a friend that is leaving Wednesday for > Russia and eastern Europe. She said that she > could look around over there for old computers, > if I could supply her with some names of > computers to look for. > Does anyone know the make and model of some > classic soviet computers? They don't have to > be just "personal" computers. Big Iron is also > acceptable. > So far, after a web search, the only names > I have are the "TESLA" pc that someone brought > to VCF 2 and "BESM-6" a mainframe from about > 1965. > If you can come up with other soviet/russian > computers, please copy me as well as the list > (so I don't have to wait for the digest) and > also give some indication of size (just to > help identify them). > > Thanks in advance, > --Doug > > > > ========================================= > Doug Coward > Press Start Inc. > Sunnyvale,CA > ========================================= > From scott at saskatoon.com Mon May 17 22:08:15 1999 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: CURSOR and Commodore cassettes In-Reply-To: <37354979.FEEB991D@home.com> Message-ID: > Doug Spence wrote: > >I need some information about the Commodore cassette storage format. > >....snip..... > >In the data portions, it appears as if every 20th wave is special > About a year and a half ago, I took my shot at converting wave files. All this information a couple of weeks ago got me going again on this project. For anyone who's interested, I've released v0.1 of viccas, a program which converts PET, VIC-20 and C64 tapes to .t64 files. (I use them in VICE) It still needs lots of work, but it is functional. (I've converted several of my favorite old games.) Oh, it's written in C in Linux on an Intel 32bit box. No promises that it'll work anywhere else. (Actually, no promises that it'll work at all...) Find it at: http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca/code/code.html ttyl srw btw, it's GPLed. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 17 22:18:29 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <3740D764.4B09D3DD@sprint.ca> References: <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990517201703.009937f0@mcmanis.com> At 08:58 PM 5/17/99 -0600, Brian wrote: >My feeling is that there might be a lot of hardware out there, but there seems >to be a lack of documentation, both oem and third party. Now, if I see a >manual, I pick it up hoping that one day I will either be able to offer >assistance or be able to match the hardware to the book. >Comments? >Brian And of course much hardware seems to be undocumented to protect "intellectual property" rights. I agree however this is a worthwhile goal. I chastised my Mom for throwing out some "old worthless computer books" because she didn't need them. --Chuck From transit at primenet.com Mon May 17 22:12:59 1999 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: IBM ES-9000 In-Reply-To: <199905180129.UAA20724@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: A hospital in Southern California is planning to scrap an IBM ES-9000. This machine consists of about 4-5 refrigerator-sized cabinets (CPU, disks, tape transports, etc.) Would this be something that anyone on this list would be interested in? If so, please reply directly to me. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Mon May 17 22:27:50 1999 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: <3740BA28.CEA73EFB@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, bluoval wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find a few rolls of thermal paper for a TI > Silent 700? I have only about half a roll left and don't want to waste > what little I have if I can't find more. Is there any suitable > replacements for this paper? I've used Fax paper in mine, and it works fine. Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon May 17 23:08:02 1999 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905180405.XAA21285@trailingedge.com> I suspect it will take more than an LLF. I've now notice that sometimes when I power it on, it fails the startup tests and never reaches a ready state. Of course maybe an LLF would fix that but I don't know. I haven't been able to get it to access the catalog on the drive though formatting under ProDOS now always claims to work where it would fail before. The clicking sound it makes is pretty loud and annoying and I'm sure a LLF won't help that. Does anyone know if you used the same Apple II interface card for the 5 meg and 10 meg ProFILEs? On 17 May 99, at 22:28, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > well, if the drive can be accessed somewhat, then it's not a catastrophic > failure; maybe a LLF will do it? I've heard that only a lisa and maybe an > apple /// are the only computers that can LLF a profile. can anyone > verify? ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From donm at cts.com Mon May 17 23:11:46 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Kaypro manuals available In-Reply-To: <19990518014645.18078.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Don Maslin wrote: > > > Some, perhaps. I'm not rife with CP/M, so I'm interested... > > > 5 KAYPRO CP/M > > If these are copies of CP/M for the Kaypro (2.2), I'm interested in two, > one for me and one for another Kaypro owner here in town. They are basically Kaypro reprints of the DRI manuals for CP/M. > > 1 KAYPRO II USERS GUIDE > > I'd like this, too. Sorry, taken. > > 3 KAYPRO USERS GUIDE > > What model? Ditto. (II and 4 '83, actually) - don From bluoval at mindsprint.com Mon May 17 23:17:46 1999 From: bluoval at mindsprint.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? References: Message-ID: <3740E9EA.882D8924@mindsprint.com> I don't know, in the user manual TI says to use only "approved" thermal paper and that the warranty would be void if the approved paper wasn't used. "The warranty and/or service contract on the thermal printhead is subject to nullification if the thermal printing paper used in the terminal does not meet TI Specification 972603-0001." Whatever spec that is. Could be just fax paper, but I was hesitant to use any other type paper cause I don't know where to buy a spare printhead if it ever broke... "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >Does anyone know where I can find a few rolls of thermal paper for a TI > >Silent 700? I have only about half a roll left and don't want to waste > >what little I have if I can't find more. Is there any suitable > >replacements for this paper? > > > >Robert > > Isn't it just FAX paper? > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bluoval at mindsprint.com Mon May 17 23:18:37 1999 From: bluoval at mindsprint.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? References: Message-ID: <3740EA1D.26A8C944@mindsprint.com> Good! Thanks Karl. Robert Karl Maftoum wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 1999, bluoval wrote: > > > Does anyone know where I can find a few rolls of thermal paper for a TI > > Silent 700? I have only about half a roll left and don't want to waste > > what little I have if I can't find more. Is there any suitable > > replacements for this paper? > > I've used Fax paper in mine, and it works fine. > > Karl > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Karl Maftoum > Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia > > Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Mon May 17 23:28:29 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: FS: Review copies of books about microprocessors and microcomputers. Message-ID: <199905180428.AAA09859@phantom.golden.net> As I rummage through things I keep coming up with books about very small computers. These would be put to better use by a micro collector and they will help fund more large system rescues. Unless otherwise noted, these books are in excellent condition and many are hardcover. Shipping charges are extra and depend on your address. 1. The BugBook IV, 1979, Howard Sams & Co., softcover Microcomputer Interfacing using the 8255 PPI chip with experiments $2 2. How to Troubleshoot and Repair Microcomputers, 1980, Reston, softcover with step-by-step procedures $2 (inside blank page removed from book) 3. Microcomputer Hardware, Operation, and Troubleshooting with IBM PC 1988, Prentice-Hall, hardcover $4 4. RS-232 Made Easy, 1984, Prentice-Hall, softcover $3 5. Complete Guide to RS-232 and Parallel Connections, 1988, Prentice-Hall large format, softcover, corners on cover curling, 600 pages $8 6. Your First Microprocessor, 1984, Prentice-Hall, softcover organizing, construction, debugging $3 7. Microcomputer Hardware Design, 1988, Prentice-Hall, hardcover complete in every aspect. $8 8. 16-bit microcomputers - 8086 and 68000, 1988, Prentice-Hall, softcover $2 9. MC68000 Programmer's Reference Manual, 1984, Prentice-Hall, softcover $2 10. MC68000 User's Manual, 1982, Prentice-Hall, softcover $2 11. MC68881/MC68882 Floating-point Co-processor User's Manual (2 copies) 1987, Prentice-Hall, softcover $2 12. Assembly and Assemblers - the Motorola MC68000 Family 1988, Prentice-Hall, hardcover $5 13. Programming and Designing with the 68000 Family, 1991, Prentice-Hall, hardcover $5 13. The Motorola MC68000 Family, 1985, Prentice-Hall, hardcover Assembly Language, Interface Design, and System Design $7 14. 6502 Assembly Language Programming, 1979, Osborne, softcover the classic $4 15. Z80 Assembly Language Programming, 1979, Osborne, softcover the other classic $4 16. Microcomputer Systems: The 8086/8088 Family, 1984, Prentice-Hall, hardcover a beautiful book $8 17. 16-Bit Modern Microcomputers: The Intel I8086 Family, 1985, Prentice-Hall, hardcover an even more beautiful book $9 18. File Formats and More File Formats: the Programmer's Reference, 1986 and 1987, Wiley, plastic coil remember Multimate, etc. learn how to decode native files $8 (together) 19. Programming in BASIC for the IBM Personal Computer, 1984, Prentice-Hall, hardcover $4 20. A Comprehensive Guide to the IBM PC, 1984, Prentice-Hall, softcover really comprehensive $5 21. IBM PC/XT BASIC Programming, 1984, Prentice-Hall, softcover cute book with nice photographs $2 22. Assembly Language Programming for the IBM PC, 1984, Prentice-Hall, hardcover an exceptional intro to assembly language programming for beginners $5 23. The Apple PC for Beginners, 1982, Prentice-Hall, hardcover a basic book with an outstanding cover - a must for Apple collectors $4 24. Apple IIe BASIC programming with Technical Applications, 1985, Prentice-Hall, softcover $2 Enjoy these wonderful books. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon May 17 23:35:10 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: <199905180405.XAA21285@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, David Williams wrote: > I suspect it will take more than an LLF. I've now notice that > sometimes when I power it on, it fails the startup tests and never > reaches a ready state. Of course maybe an LLF would fix that but > I don't know. I haven't been able to get it to access the catalog on > the drive though formatting under ProDOS now always claims to > work where it would fail before. The clicking sound it makes is > pretty loud and annoying and I'm sure a LLF won't help that. Does > anyone know if you used the same Apple II interface card for the 5 > meg and 10 meg ProFILEs? Sounds like its dying. Might be time for a little home clean room to repair it. Go back and find the dicussion from several months back that talked about building a clean box. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon May 17 23:37:01 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: <3740E9EA.882D8924@mindsprint.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, bluoval wrote: > I don't know, in the user manual TI says to use only "approved" thermal > paper and that the warranty would be void if the approved paper wasn't used. > > "The warranty and/or service contract on the thermal printhead is subject to > nullification if the thermal printing paper used in the terminal does not > meet TI Specification 972603-0001." Translated from marketing that means "Only buy TI paper so we can make more money." > Whatever spec that is. Could be just fax paper, but I was hesitant to use > any other type paper cause I don't know where to buy a spare printhead if it > ever broke... FAX paper. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue May 18 00:52:33 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: References: <199905180405.XAA21285@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990517225233.00ee5560@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:35 PM 5/17/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 17 May 1999, David Williams wrote: > >> I suspect it will take more than an LLF. I've now notice that >> sometimes when I power it on, it fails the startup tests and never >> reaches a ready state. Of course maybe an LLF would fix that but >> I don't know. I haven't been able to get it to access the catalog on >> the drive though formatting under ProDOS now always claims to >> work where it would fail before. The clicking sound it makes is >> pretty loud and annoying and I'm sure a LLF won't help that. Does >> anyone know if you used the same Apple II interface card for the 5 >> meg and 10 meg ProFILEs? > >Sounds like its dying. Might be time for a little home clean room to >repair it. Go back and find the dicussion from several months back that >talked about building a clean box. Ok, going out on a limb here (not my first time)... The infamous 'low level format' may indeed address the problem, but it's not nearly as easy to do in this case as one might expect... First: a couple of data points about the 'ProFile' drive subsystems. 1) The interface is just an over-glorified bi-directional parallel port! (witness that to use it with a LISA, you run a straight-thru cable from the ProFile to the parallel port on the LISA) 2) the drive in the ProFile is a 5 or 10 meg Shugart 4XX series mechanism, but with an Apple custom logic board installed. So forget just about everything you know about formatting hard drives... 3) you never directly address the drive in a ProFile, you issue commands to the logic board in the ProFile, and it talks to the drive... 4) IIRC: one of the power up tests that the ProFile does (it has been a while since I went thru Apple training on this critter) is a read test on selected tracks on the drive. If this test fails (due to mechanical failure or bit-rot) the drive will never come 'ready' 5) There is no inherent 'format' command in the ProFile controller logic. To enable formatting capability you have to install a special chip (according to rumour: a Z-80 with a piggyback EPROM) into a vacant socket on the ProFile logic board, power up the unit and issue a special command. (I doubt it matters what machine it is connected to at the time) 6) Running the 'format' command from ProDos (LISA office, etc...) does little more than initialize the directory tracks in a form that ProDos (or whatever) expects. It does no actual 'formatting' of the drive proper... (man, where have we heard of THIS strategy before?) Now, having said that... It's quite possible that the problem may be little more than bit-rot due to the degredation of the magnetic domains on the drive platters. (or it really could be busted, but let's think good thots here) Also, power failures during writes could honk up the drive real easily... The real trick here however is coming up with the little format enabler chip and the proper incantation to mumble at it! There have been stories of people who have opened up their ProFiles and found the previously mentioned socket occupied by the magic module, but last time I looked in mine I was not one of the fortunate (?) ones... The real downer in this, is that we are all likely to be impacted by this somewhere along the way... -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue May 18 01:13:10 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990517230700.00b52750@mcmanis.com> Hmm, I didn't make a very clear point. Consider the following: Lots of people on this list moan about the "Good old days" when PDP-8's could be had by swinging by a university and offering to take it off their hands, or an IMSAI or Altair because it was "worthless junk." These same people complain that now "collectors" have moved in and are charging and getting "outragious" prices on ebay, etc etc. Here's my point, are you ready? _Today_ is the "good old days" for PC collecting, and if it is like any other system, be it Apple Lisas or PDP-6's, in 10 or 15 years the newbies on the list will be asking where they can find an original Hercules monochrome display adapter for the PC they are restoring. So let's not 'dis the PC collector when it isn't our particular cup of tea, let's help out as those before us helped out (at least two former DEC folks gladly gave me docs that they now thought were worthless because they no longer cared about them. Similarly I give away PC stuff to anyone who can cart it away if they want to collect it.) [I've got a 5150 here somewhere if someone in the SF Bay Area wants it, or is willing to pay to pack it up and send it somewhere.] --Chuck From bluoval at mindsprint.com Tue May 18 01:10:54 1999 From: bluoval at mindsprint.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? References: Message-ID: <3741046E.72F75148@mindsprint.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 1999, bluoval wrote: > > > I don't know, in the user manual TI says to use only "approved" thermal > > paper and that the warranty would be void if the approved paper wasn't used. > > > > "The warranty and/or service contract on the thermal printhead is subject to > > nullification if the thermal printing paper used in the terminal does not > > meet TI Specification 972603-0001." > > Translated from marketing that means "Only buy TI paper so we can make > more money." > I kinda figured that, but asked just to be sure. =) Robert From go at ao.com Tue May 18 01:18:38 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: References: <3740E9EA.882D8924@mindsprint.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990517231345.03b8df10@office.ao.com> At 09:37 PM 5/17/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 18 May 1999, bluoval wrote: > >> I don't know, in the user manual TI says to use only "approved" thermal >> paper and that the warranty would be void if the approved paper wasn't used. >> >> "The warranty and/or service contract on the thermal printhead is subject to >> nullification if the thermal printing paper used in the terminal does not >> meet TI Specification 972603-0001." > >Translated from marketing that means "Only buy TI paper so we can make >more money." > >> Whatever spec that is. Could be just fax paper, but I was hesitant to use >> any other type paper cause I don't know where to buy a spare printhead if it >> ever broke... > >FAX paper. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com For the most part, "generic" (e.g. Costco "brand") fax paper works just fine in both of my 700s. However, the "real" paper that came with one of the units (I have one almost unused roll left) prints a much darker tone in both machines, suggesting it is more sensitive to heat than "garden variety" (presuming Costco sells garden variety) fax paper. I have yet to try more than one other brand (a roll of "panasonic" paper - lord knows who really made it) and it also prints "light." But it is entirely readable in any case. And the print heads are pretty rugged on these beasts, I wouldn't worry about hurting the printer with "unapproved" paper. Gary From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue May 18 01:19:46 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: FS: Review copies of books about microprocessors and microcomputers. In-Reply-To: <199905180428.AAA09859@phantom.golden.net> Message-ID: >2. >How to Troubleshoot and Repair Microcomputers, 1980, Reston, softcover >with step-by-step procedures >$2 (inside blank page removed from book) > >14. >6502 Assembly Language Programming, 1979, Osborne, softcover >the classic >$4 > >15. >Z80 Assembly Language Programming, 1979, Osborne, softcover >the other classic >$4 I would like these 3 books. Please let me know which are available. I will take any of the 3 that are still available. Please let me know where to send payment etc. Thanks... Anthony Clifton From svs at ropnet.ru Tue May 18 01:58:59 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Soviet/Russian classic computers? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990517172447.009529d0@199.108.34.2>; from Doug Coward on Mon, May 17, 1999 at 05:55:30PM -0700 References: <4.1.19990517172447.009529d0@199.108.34.2> Message-ID: <19990518105859.29964@firepower> On Mon, May 17, 1999 at 05:55:30PM -0700, Doug Coward wrote: > Does anyone know the make and model of some > classic soviet computers? They don't have to > be just "personal" computers. Big Iron is also > acceptable. Comprehensive Computer Catalogue lists many machines of Big Iron class (search with country name "USSR"); no size/weight information is available there. Here's a list of URLs for present and future collectors of computing hardware of Soviet/Russian origin. You'll need to know Russian (or have translation software handy) to read most of them. Use your imagination and , , to find out more. (Too bad that Deja.com treats 8-bit characters as white space...) *** Computer museums Virtual computer museum of Russia. Another virtual museum. , An article about real computer museum. *** Books and other sources of information "History Computer Science Books" (images of early Soviet computers are linked from this page.) "Microprocessor devices and systems" (ISSN 0233-4844) -- many original designs, frequently with schematics, were published there. 74. Wegner, Peter, J. Nestor, E. Schonberg, S. Smoliar, P.J. Weinberger, G. Wiederhold, and P. Wolcott: System Software for Soviet Computers; FASAC Technical Assessment Report, Science Applications International Corporation, McLean VA, August 1989. * ---. Soviet Cybernetics Technology: I. Soviet Cybernetics, 1959- 1962, 1963 Jun. NBS #: 6303048. * ---. Soviet Cybernetics Technology: II. General Characteristics of Several Soviet Computers, 1963 Aug. NBS #: 6303052. * ---. Soviet Cybernetics Technology: III, Programming Elements of the BESM, STRELA, URAL, M-3, and KIEV Computers, 1963 Sep. NBS #: 6326275. * ---. Soviet Cybernetics Technology: V. Soviet Process Control Computers, 1965 Nov. NBS #: 6526276. Die Sowjets bemu:hen sich aufzuholen (soviets strive to catch up) *** Folklore A piece of folklore about ES-10xx series of machines. Yet Another Story of Tetris. Computerese Slang Dictionary (Russian-to-Russian). "How original design was killed by The Mgt. and replaced by LSI-11 compatible one" "Using OS DWK" (OS DWK is localized RT-11) These are FidoNet echomail conferences, bidirectionally gatewayed to Usenet. See for details. *** Big Iron BESM-1 BESM-6 -- summary BESM-6 emulator BESM-6, El'Brus-1KB El'brus ES-1055? on display in Heinz Nixdorf MuseumsForum *** BK-0010 Museum of BK-0010. BK-0010 emulator for the Amiga. A photo of 3 BK-0010's and a DWK-3. *** Sinclair ZX Spectrum ZX Spectrum software museum. A story about Hobbit, a clone of ZX Spectrum. Overview of different ZX Spectrum clones. *** Misc Cyrillic Charset Soup. Internet and education. "Tetris" for the MK-85 calculator. "Early days of Internet in Russia" Some user documentation on Besta-88. Reportedly, Linux and NetBSD were ported to this machine. PDPC board -- a PDP-11 compatible processor on an ISA card. "This is full-size ISA board, called VAX/PC, which use original Zelenograd's microprocessor series L1839 and support chips. It's analog of microVAX-II with speed 1.9 MIPS and 8 (or may be more) MB of memory. The board have external Q-bus interface for old devices. PC's software emulated VAX's periferals: RQDX-3 (hard & floppy disk controller), console VT-220, two serial ports and printer. You may ask Victor Khromychev or Sergey Shisarin at IC design department of "Angstrem" joint stock company. E-mail: dc320@angstrem.compnet.ru, phone: +7-(095)-532-8105, fax +7-(095)-531-3270." PK11/16 -- home computer -- former manufacturer? *** Software (Commercial software) Emulator of IBM System 360 and System 370-series clones (ES-10xx) for Linux and OS/2. DEMOS 2.2 -- UNIX for DWK-3 -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 02:51:33 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990517225233.00ee5560@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, James Willing wrote: > >> work where it would fail before. The clicking sound it makes is > >> pretty loud and annoying and I'm sure a LLF won't help that. Does > > It's quite possible that the problem may be little more than bit-rot due to > the degredation of the magnetic domains on the drive platters. (or it > really could be busted, but let's think good thots here) Also, power > failures during writes could honk up the drive real easily... Naw, he says its clicking. I think its internal mechanical failure. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From apolon at triada.bg Thu May 20 03:12:59 1999 From: apolon at triada.bg (Milko Harizanov) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: offer Message-ID: <028b01bea298$95cfb9e0$c3e70cc2@p> Apolon Ltd. P.O. BOX 303, 9000 Varna, Bulgaria Tel: + 359-52-221168, Fax: +359-52-600034 e-mail: apolon@triada.bg Dear Sirs, My company had organize software group. I should like offer you to perform a contract with your company. If you wish to order me some software application task - I am ready to execute your commission. I am ready to make any your task and will give (send) you the made software applicationtion until you convince of the best completed. If you have some interest im my offer, please inform me. I await your conditions for jointly job. Thank you very much Best regards: Milko Harizanov President -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/7a54a1be/attachment.html From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 03:16:21 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: offer In-Reply-To: <028b01bea298$95cfb9e0$c3e70cc2@p> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 1999, Milko Harizanov wrote: > Dear Sirs, > > > My company had organize software group. > I should like offer you to perform a contract > with your company. If you wish to order me some > software application task - I am ready to execute your > commission. > > I am ready to make any your task and will give (send) you > the made software applicationtion until you convince of the > best completed. > > If you have some interest im my offer, please inform me. > I await your conditions for jointly job. > Thank you very much > > > Best regards: > > Milko Harizanov > President He's trying. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon May 17 23:46:46 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <199905180847.EAA02842@smtp.interlog.com> On 17 May 99 at 17:10, Chuck McManis wrote: > The general disdain with which PC collecting is met with on this list is > understandable, however, I have been thinking there must be something here. > > I recall the folks who have collected PETs and C64s that are pretty common > and "worthless" these days (I saw a new Vic20 in box at the Hamvention that > they couldn't _give_ away.) Well had you picked it up you could have made a bit of money. Check what they're going for on E-Pay and also the lowly Atari 2600 prices. Old Pets will go for more than many minis. But of course we aren't talking about economic values here, unless it's an Altair or Imsai., but of esthetic "worth". Different strokes fo different folks. > > So I've had some thoughts on what might be useful to "collect" when it came > to the PC industry and this is what I've come up with: > 1) All motherboard types - collecting one each of the "standard" > sizes (AT, XT, Baby-AT, etc) > 2) Collecting one each of all processor types. > 3) Collecting one each of all media types. > 4) Collecting all of the video standards. > 5) "Famous brands", IBM, Compaq, etc. > 6) "Famous peripherals", Bus mouse, XT keyboard, AT keyboard, etc > > This is something that anyone could start today since, like the computers > of yore, this stuff is currently being tossed out. > > Comments? > --Chuck > Well I'm a collector of the "disdained" and we are Legion. You can't have been looking around the I-net lately if you haven't noticed the burgeoning number of micro collectors. Mini and Main -frame collectors are a distinct minority. I collect "home" computers. Original IBM's including some "classic" PS/2s as well as Apples, Ataris, Commodores, and Tandy. WE don't want no "steenking" minis. I wouldn't turn down a PDP8/e mind you. As far as the early IBMs go, I have 2 PCs- one heavily modified, one I'll leave pristine, the same with 2 XTs, 1 AT- somewhat modified with an EGA board. and the monitors and KBs (plus spares)that came with them. I've got an Intel Inboard 386 card, a Plus HardCard, and other goodies on the one PC, things like 6-pack and Quad cards and multi-I/O cards, programs like Multimate, the Gem version of Ventura Publisher, QDs' Deskmate and many others including a shrinkwrapped copy of IBM Basic 3.0 and numerous other documentation. I also admit to a few "special" clones like an original Compaq and unique models of pre-386 Dos-Boxes. Some CPM boxes, and portables. Now possibly you mini drones don't consider that "collecting" but I am perfectly delighted with my stuff and each new addition. I couldn't care less about "Big Iron" , but then again I always preferred the Karman-Ghia to the Cadillac and I'm not from Texas. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue May 18 07:04:18 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Who are you? In-Reply-To: References: <199905171841.MAA01780@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at May 17, 99 12:41:06 pm Message-ID: <199905181005.MAA11962@horus.mch.sni.de> > > There's a certain amount of disagreement on whether PCs are classic or not. > > One camp says that any computer over 10 years old qualifies, another will > > say that since the PC archetecture is at the core of modern PCs that it doesn't. > > Personally I say welcome to the group. > I have difficulty with the idea that a PC can ever be a 'classic' in the > same sense that a PERQ or a PDP11 are classics. The PC architecture is > just plain unpleasant in places. Now, just compare it to cars - A VW is maybe also unplesant (but was OK at their time) and a BMW Isetta or a Gogomobil even more (or just take an Moris Minor) - but they are classic in any sense - Althou a Mercedes SSK or a Bently is still a different class ... Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue May 18 07:02:52 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs Message-ID: <19990518120252.7755.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence Walker wrote: > On 17 May 99 at 17:10, Chuck McManis wrote: > > I recall the folks who have collected PETs and C64s that are pretty common > > and "worthless" these days (I saw a new Vic20 in box at the Hamvention that > > they couldn't _give_ away.) > > Well had you picked it up you could have made a bit of money. Check what > they're going for on E-Pay... I don't know if I got _that_ VIC-20, but I did get _a_ VIC-20 in the box for $2. I also got a C2N tape drive, new in the box for $1. I'm doing pretty well... the last VIC-20 I bought was $4. I don't think I can keep up the progression through too many more iterations, though. ;-) -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 07:27:33 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <000501bea0c8$9fcf0300$50721fd1@5x86jk> References: Message-ID: >The yard here has over 100 early Mac's from the 128, 512, Plus, SE, Classic, >to Classic II starting at $5 for just the box to $20 for a complete unit. >And must of the thrifts here have them too. So it's not me tossing them I >just do not buy them. $5 or even giving them away I have no trouble with. Tossing them bugs me. Personally the only way I will accept a pre internal hard drive mac is if it is part of a lot, but once I have them I work at finding them homes. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue May 18 08:01:48 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: offer In-Reply-To: References: <028b01bea298$95cfb9e0$c3e70cc2@p> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990518080148.00df6370@vpwisfirewall> At 01:16 AM 5/18/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >He's trying. For me, one of the most delightful parts of running a small software business was reading the unsolicited letters. I kept a file folder of them. One of my favorites was from another East Bloc country that started out in clear English, slowly began to struggle, and then finally gave up and switched to their mother tongue. For a while, every few weeks we'd get a letter from Mosul, Iraq, each more creative than the last. Some were written in crayon, some pencil, some on paper with inch-tall lines, some block-printed with a rubber-stamp kit. Eventually, I guessed it was a young kid who'd regularly raid his dad's supply of stamps and envelopes. - John From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 07:34:43 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems In-Reply-To: <5e070aa5.24721e02@aol.com> Message-ID: In my scrap yard looking I came across a batch of circuit boards near some old 8" floppy drives (Shugart, Qume, etc. and all bad I think, or troublesome) and I am wondering if they mean anything to anybody. They are large, maybe 11x17 or more, and the name on them is Scientific Micro Systems. The only connector I remember is a about a 4" wide edge connector on one end of the board in the middle. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Tue May 18 08:15:11 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? In-Reply-To: <199905181005.MAA11962@horus.mch.sni.de> References: <199905171841.MAA01780@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <199905181315.XAA14021@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:05 18/05/99 +0001, Hans Franke wrote: [Quoting someone else] >> I have difficulty with the idea that a PC can ever be a 'classic' in the >> same sense that a PERQ or a PDP11 are classics. The PC architecture is >> just plain unpleasant in places. I don't think PCs will ever be quite as "classical" as say a PERQ due to the numbers involved. I wouldn't be surprised if there were three orders of magnitude more PCs than PERQs. This is one of the reasons why a 50 year old Minor costs a 100 two orders of magnitude less than a Mercedes SSK - there's lots of Minor's around.... >Now, just compare it to cars - A VW is maybe also unplesant >(but was OK at their time) and a BMW Isetta or a Gogomobil >even more (or just take an Moris Minor) - but they are >classic in any sense - Althou a Mercedes SSK or a Bently >is still a different class ... Well I have a share in an original (1949) Minor low light with the 849cc side valve engine. It's dangerous to use on modern roads whereas an old PC is still sort of usable on the current network, though you wouldn't want to run some high powered GUI based OS on it (the PC that is :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From max82 at surfree.com Tue May 18 08:30:17 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? References: <199905171841.MAA01780@calico.litterbox.com> <199905181315.XAA14021@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <37416B69.F9CD51CA@surfree.com> Huw Davies wrote: > I don't think PCs will ever be quite as "classical" as say a PERQ due > to the numbers involved. I wouldn't be surprised if there were three I dearly hope that someday, high-quality fast stable efficient well-designed machines will be running systems that we have yet to imagine, and PCs in the modern sense will become antiques. Of course, I doubt that any of the people who have had to deal with PCs will go back to them for old times' sake. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue May 18 07:38:08 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Making copies of Docs was: --H/Z89-- Message-ID: <80256775.0045DC22.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> Proposal for copying really OLD documents (I get a royalty if someone >> does this and it works!) >> >> 1) Develop a machine that performs a CAT scan of the document >> without opening it at very high resolution. >> >> 2) process the high resolution 3D images captured to determine >> the ink patterns on each page. >> >> 3) OCR the individual pages to recreate the original text >> >> Simple, Right? >> >> clint > > Hi > Most documents can be opened to about 90 degrees. What does > them in is flattening them on a copier. One could build a > lens assembly that would go on top of the copier that would > allow one to place the original on top with only a 90 degree > bend. The size of the optics is the main issue here. I saw a photocopier demonstrated on TV well over 10 years ago which copied books without opening them more than about 80 degrees. I seem to recall it was the British Library who were sponsoring the development, but I may be confusing this with something else. Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue May 18 07:40:22 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Univac pix Message-ID: <80256775.00461088.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> Geez! And my wife complains about my two Altairs and the Tektronix 4051 >> sitting in the living room!! >> >> Joe > > Very well, since you're twisting my arm Joe... I'll take the two Altairs > off your hands.. You'll have to find someone else to take the Tektronix > (I think I have one of those, minus the monitor, that i'm using as > a TV stand. I used to use it for a computer desk.. Nice adjustable > keyboard tray, now i put my VCR on that tray..) I think you may have lost your 4051! It was a self contained unit with keyboard, monitor, processor all in one box. If you're using it as a TV stand you may have lost the 4051 and just kept the pedestal... (Seriously, I think you're confusing it with a more modern piece of Tek kit) Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue May 18 07:43:09 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Tossing Message-ID: <80256775.004651A6.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> Anyway, Macs are prety neat to stack (especialy the classic ones), >> and should form a neat wall (maybe for seperation between dining >> room and kitchen ?) or can be used as base for a desk etc. >> >> (I just havn't enough to proove it) > > I've tested this hypothesis in the lab and have concluded that they do not > stack well. They are angled slightly at the top. With enough Macs you > could build a suspension bridge, but I wouldn't drive a car over it. Suspension bridge? I take it you mean an arch bridge... The way to build a wall is to stack them not all the same way round. The most stable method is probably LRRLLRRLL..., but LRLRLR would probably work (L and R meaning Macs facing Left and Right respectively) Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue May 18 07:47:13 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) Message-ID: <80256775.0046B127.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >>>It means that the "dealer" has an item X in their inventory, they see that >>someone else on Ebay is selling an equivalent X. The dealer follows the >>auction to completion, when complete, the dealer sends email to the second >>highest bidder and asks if they would like to purchase the item from them >>for the price they offered the seller. >> >>This is a scam? Give it a break guys. If I bid on something and am not the >>high bidder I would like a chance to buy. If you don't then don't reply. >>Sometimes you can get in a bidding war and end up pay many times the value >>of an item, I.E. Imsai or Altec on Ebay, Is it really that different than >>making an offer here to someone who has something you want? So who looses if >>a seller contacts you and you agree on a fair price? Ebay? Time to face the >>facts Ebay, Yahoo, etc., etc. auctions are going to stay a while. > > The above was an explanation of the legitimate practice. The abuse is where > a third party pretends to be the seller, contacts the second etc. bidders > and requests payment be sent to a blind PO Box, then skips with the funds > never sending any goods. > > BTW I just sent an inquiry to eBay to see if this is rumor, hoax, or fact. Oh. I got the impression that it was the highest bidder doing this, i.e. outbidding the legitimate bidders; then selling his stuff to the failed bidders; and only then backing down on the original sale. Very nasty, because the original vendor can't sell to the failed bidders until he has definitely heard that the winner is backing down... At a genuine auction in the UK, the auctioneer has the legal power to sign a contract of purchase on behalf of either party. So backing down is very, very difficult. But this sort of safeguard has yet to reach Ebay, I suppose. Philip. From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue May 18 08:41:19 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? Message-ID: <018f01bea134$1c171a40$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> I certainly have the same mindset that PC's aren't worthy of being "classic" in the sense that a PDP-8 or HP2108A is.... at first blush.... But thinking about it more, it would seem to me that like quantum mechanics, it depends on the time and act of the observation. Specifically, we might not be so quick to dismiss the PC architecture if we were currently in the year 2100 (that was just a random choice of year, nothing to do with HP's ). To provide a counterpoint to that, there were so many PCs and PC clones, that collecting them would be more tantamount to collecting matchbox cars than collecting real cars (which I liken to collecting mini's). They're much easier to comeby right now, so one would collect for color and variety for example rather than each item depicting a phase of computing history. While I understand and agree with others idea that PC's are "not as historically significant except as a whole", I think it is - no less - a valid item to collect. BTW - I'm referring to PC architecture machines, not S100, or even PET type machines. Just my .00002 cents worth. Cheers! Jay West From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue May 18 08:50:46 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19990517225233.00ee5560@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990518065046.0159e100@agora.rdrop.com> At 12:51 AM 5/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 17 May 1999, James Willing wrote: > >> >> work where it would fail before. The clicking sound it makes is >> >> pretty loud and annoying and I'm sure a LLF won't help that. Does >> >> It's quite possible that the problem may be little more than bit-rot due to >> the degredation of the magnetic domains on the drive platters. (or it >> really could be busted, but let's think good thots here) Also, power >> failures during writes could honk up the drive real easily... > >Naw, he says its clicking. I think its internal mechanical failure. ...or dust in the track 0 optical sensor... (externally mounted, easy to get to) -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 18 09:22:48 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems Message-ID: <001401bea139$e8946640$0100c0a8@fuj03> SMS was the maker of a number of 8X300-based FDC's. These were about 10x12" things with loads of TTL, normally bounted in a 17x18x15" (wxlxh) cast aluminum-framed case with a clipped-on aluminum shell, often painted off-white or beige, in which there were two 8" drives. The boards had numbers like FDC300 or FT400, and were interfaced via a req/ack handshake and 8-bit data on a 50-conductor cable. The models (300 & 400) with which I'm familiar, were single-sided, but the FDC of the 400 supported double-density. The interface protococ was at the sector or track level, i.e. it was simple and based on commands like "read the next sector" or format the next track, with much less fiddling than with the WD or NEC FDC's. Their HDC's worked more or less like the bridge controllers from other vendors. SMS was the original developer of the 8X300 microcontroller, produced for them by Signetics. They later produced FDC's and HDC's under the name OMTI. I may still have doc's for the ones I had, though I remember at least one of the manuals got a mite wet some time back. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 7:21 AM Subject: Scientific Micro Systems >In my scrap yard looking I came across a batch of circuit boards near some >old 8" floppy drives (Shugart, Qume, etc. and all bad I think, or >troublesome) and I am wondering if they mean anything to anybody. They are >large, maybe 11x17 or more, and the name on them is Scientific Micro >Systems. The only connector I remember is a about a 4" wide edge connector >on one end of the board in the middle. > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 18 09:25:48 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) Message-ID: <001901bea13a$53705b40$0100c0a8@fuj03> You won't find eBay wanting to "get in the middle" in that way. They get a fee based on the high bid. They don't really care whether the transaction is completed. Of course, the seller gets a credit for his fee in the case where the sale isn't completed, but eBay still gets the money. Why would they want to change this comfortable arrangement? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Philip.Belben@pgen.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 7:52 AM Subject: Re: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) > > >>>>It means that the "dealer" has an item X in their inventory, they see that >>>someone else on Ebay is selling an equivalent X. The dealer follows the >>>auction to completion, when complete, the dealer sends email to the second >>>highest bidder and asks if they would like to purchase the item from them >>>for the price they offered the seller. >>> >>>This is a scam? Give it a break guys. If I bid on something and am not the >>>high bidder I would like a chance to buy. If you don't then don't reply. >>>Sometimes you can get in a bidding war and end up pay many times the value >>>of an item, I.E. Imsai or Altec on Ebay, Is it really that different than >>>making an offer here to someone who has something you want? So who looses if >>>a seller contacts you and you agree on a fair price? Ebay? Time to face the >>>facts Ebay, Yahoo, etc., etc. auctions are going to stay a while. >> >> The above was an explanation of the legitimate practice. The abuse is where >> a third party pretends to be the seller, contacts the second etc. bidders >> and requests payment be sent to a blind PO Box, then skips with the funds >> never sending any goods. >> >> BTW I just sent an inquiry to eBay to see if this is rumor, hoax, or fact. > > >Oh. I got the impression that it was the highest bidder doing this, i.e. >outbidding the legitimate bidders; then selling his stuff to the failed bidders; >and only then backing down on the original sale. Very nasty, because the >original vendor can't sell to the failed bidders until he has definitely heard >that the winner is backing down... > >At a genuine auction in the UK, the auctioneer has the legal power to sign a >contract of purchase on behalf of either party. So backing down is very, very >difficult. But this sort of safeguard has yet to reach Ebay, I suppose. > >Philip. > > > > > From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 09:19:10 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990517201703.009937f0@mcmanis.com> References: <3740D764.4B09D3DD@sprint.ca> <4.1.19990517163750.03d3a140@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: I think we need to clarify collecting vs acquiring. The reason I bought a IBM 5140 is that I think it represents a unique point in computer development. The reason I bought a 486 clone is that I wanted a cheap Linux server/router box. The appeal of a PS/2, or even a 5150, is kind of in the middle combined with there current low prices. Certainly nobody needs my or anyone elses approval prior to collecting anything they see fit to, but I do tend to agree that few 486 or pentium clones will ever fall into what we conventionally think of collectible items. They are too common and too similar for my tastes. From ddameron at earthlink.net Tue May 18 06:22:28 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: So CA rescue In-Reply-To: References: <028b01bea298$95cfb9e0$c3e70cc2@p> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990518062228.2e679612@earthlink.net> For anyone in So., Calif. with a truck, Barry's (Artesia blvd in Gardena) has a Tek 40xx graphics unit. outside in the front of his salvage yard. Cost =??, I guess cheap as he is moving. -Dave From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 18 09:35:58 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Tossing Message-ID: <002601bea13b$bf06f840$0100c0a8@fuj03> I can understand why people go ahead and "toss" things as opposed to going to the trouble to pack and ship them. Whereas I seldom object to giving someone who will use it an item in my storage heap, I have had qualms, at times, about people who wanted "everything" when I knew up front that it would just go from my dead storage area to theirs. I never worried so much about what happened to the puppies I sold. I guess I figured that people willing to pay for something would care for it and put it to use. What a silly notion! When I made public what I had here, I got lots of requests for essentially "all the good stuff" if there is such a designation, and at the end of the day, so to speak, only one fellow sent funds to cover shipping. I sent him the two boards he requested, and, as far as I'm concerned, he still has credit with me for another USPS priority mail shipment of <2 lbs. Of course shipping boards or diskettes/manuals is pretty easy when compared with shipping a 20" high by 30" deep metal box . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Philip.Belben@pgen.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 7:50 AM Subject: Re: Tossing > > >>> Anyway, Macs are prety neat to stack (especialy the classic ones), >>> and should form a neat wall (maybe for seperation between dining >>> room and kitchen ?) or can be used as base for a desk etc. >>> >>> (I just havn't enough to proove it) >> >> I've tested this hypothesis in the lab and have concluded that they do not >> stack well. They are angled slightly at the top. With enough Macs you >> could build a suspension bridge, but I wouldn't drive a car over it. > > >Suspension bridge? I take it you mean an arch bridge... > >The way to build a wall is to stack them not all the same way round. The most >stable method is probably LRRLLRRLL..., but LRLRLR would probably work (L and R >meaning Macs facing Left and Right respectively) > >Philip. > > > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue May 18 10:13:21 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? In-Reply-To: <018f01bea134$1c171a40$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: > To provide a counterpoint to that, there were so many PCs and PC clones, > that collecting them would be more tantamount to collecting matchbox cars While I don't specifically collect PCs I do have a few I'm holding as they are interesting or unique. The key being yes they are clones but they are in some waus more desireable than the IBMs or the lesser popular. For example a leading edge model D XT clone, smaller and has videomono and color), serial, printer and floppy on the MB. Yet it has many slots for add ins and is quite compact. Another is a Kaypro xt that has a passive mother. The whole system floppy, video, cpu ram are on two ISA-8 cards! Very different. The last of the oldies is the PS2/50z, MCA and a really better 286 than some. There are many like the DTK machines I just junk as they were common turbo XTs that had no redeming features. Allison From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 18 10:29:54 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? Message-ID: <000e01bea143$47985940$0100c0a8@fuj03> The only XT I still have is one based on an 80186, which I've used to develop code for the '186. The XT was, for the most part, hampered by the presence of all the PC hardware. With the '186, you could make the internal peripherals go away and reappear at a location not addressed by the PC hardware, though there were sometimes ambiguities which fouled things up. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp@world.std.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Are IBM PCs classic? >> To provide a counterpoint to that, there were so many PCs and PC clones, >> that collecting them would be more tantamount to collecting matchbox cars > >While I don't specifically collect PCs I do have a few I'm holding as >they are interesting or unique. The key being yes they are clones but >they are in some waus more desireable than the IBMs or the lesser popular. > >For example a leading edge model D XT clone, smaller and has videomono >and color), serial, printer and floppy on the MB. Yet it has many slots >for add ins and is quite compact. > >Another is a Kaypro xt that has a passive mother. The whole system >floppy, video, cpu ram are on two ISA-8 cards! Very different. > >The last of the oldies is the PS2/50z, MCA and a really better 286 than >some. > >There are many like the DTK machines I just junk as they were common turbo >XTs that had no redeming features. > >Allison > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 11:35:15 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > >The yard here has over 100 early Mac's from the 128, 512, Plus, SE, Classic, > >to Classic II starting at $5 for just the box to $20 for a complete unit. > >And must of the thrifts here have them too. So it's not me tossing them I > >just do not buy them. > > $5 or even giving them away I have no trouble with. Tossing them bugs me. > Personally the only way I will accept a pre internal hard drive mac is if > it is part of a lot, but once I have them I work at finding them homes. Let's face it, there are more things out there of one thing (Mac's for instance) than can possibly be saved. Unless there is a person or group of people who is willing and able to take those machines and do something useful with them rather than having them sit in a garage, they may as well not keep taking up space. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From cfandt at netsync.net Tue May 18 11:34:10 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton Message-ID: <4.1.19990518091148.00a97780@206.231.8.2> Here's a bit of a report of what I found at the Hamvention. I was there on Friday from about 09:15 to 17:30 except lunch for which we went off the grounds and on Saturday from about 08:00 to 13:30. Therefore with my method of checking every promising box and poking around under tables I saw about 3/4 of the whole fleamarket. I was looking for quite a variety of things -not just old computers. Stuff I dragged home were two DG Ones (model 2208A), two DG printers which go with them (model 2230), one AC power supply and one printer cable all for $15; VMEbus boards including one unopened Force Computers SYS68Y DRAM-2 memory board ($5) and four Motorola CODEX boards, $15; an IOMEGA Ditto Easy 3200 external tape drive (Travan 3) with cable and power supply, $25. And my best find of all: a virtually mint, seemingly unused HP9000/300 computer with 7958B hard drive (150 Mb IIRC) and 9144A 16-track tape drive. A label on the 98574 CPU module indicated it's been upgraded to a 375 which is just about the ultimate of the 300-series. A 68030 processor running at 50MHz and 16 Mb of RAM. Nice! I've been casually looking for one of the 300's for a couple of years. My ex-colleague who's an engineering manager from my ex-company's German parent company told me last week when he visited the house that an HP 9000/332 system was promised to me and will be shipped to me from their Chicago facility late this year. My new 9000/375 system was built into a 19" rack enclosure which was in turn bolted into a fiberglas transit case about 3' tall, 2' wide by about 2.5' deep. It was part of a military surplus system. I did not get a chance to find the AN system designation on the rack or case, just that it weighed 97 pounds and required two persons to carry. Apparently it had been built and not used *ever*. Just stuck in a military warehouse probably as a result of a military contract which didn't go anywhere or as a result of the Cold War ceasing or something. I absolutely cannot see *any* dust on the leading edges of the fan blades so this system has maybe only an hour or two at most of operation :) SNs are from mid-89. There's a Federal Stock Number or system part number rubber stamped onto the right side of the computer box. A probably earlier FSN or contractor's PN has been blacked out with paint (about 3/8" x 1.5" strip) and the present number rubber stamped onto the case after the upgrade to the 375 model was done. A little ugly, but what the hey! It shows a bit about the original purpose of the machine. That's the only indication of any special use of it. The update was done in December '91 according to a date handwritten on the CPU board tag inside. I was passing by the previous owner's space when I overheard one of the guys asking "What is it?" as they were taking the cover off the 7958B box to try and figure out just what *it* was. I looked and saw the main box was a 300 system (Whoa!! Let's stop and look!), became interested and checked it out. I offered an explanation as to what it was, what it was usually used for, typical processors used in the 300's, etc. Apparently the then-new owner who'd just dragged it to his space from a nearby surplus dealer didn't see a use for it for himself and offered the HP 9000 items to me and I paid him nearly all the remaining money I had to spend: $40 for all three boxes. He kept the transit case and 19" rack which bolted inside as he had a use for it back at home in Houston. He didn't recognize at first when he bought the whole transit case (for $50) that those 3 HP boxes which were clamped onto rack slide plates were actually a computer. He was happy somebody got it who knew what it was and could use it and he was happy to have the transit case. I love happiness :-) Only thing I had to promise him was to email him with what I found on the disk. He's a UNI* system admin and had enough UNI* machines of his own. I'm surprised he hadn't seen an HP 9000 machine before but these 300's were obsolete some time ago and he indicated he was always an Intel-based UNI* user. I've got a copy of HP-UX 7.0 on tape with the license, both still shrinkwrapped, and manual set that I've had for some time. Now I've got a machine to hang it upon! :) BTW, ver. 7.0 is near or at the end of HP-UX support for the 300's. Have BASIC-UX ver. 5.0 w/license and docs too! The keyboard and monitor were some sort of rugged, militarized things built into an operator's station. The fellow who had it never got from the surplus dealer as it obviously didn't quite interest him and maybe he didn't realize what it was. If it's what I *think* I saw an hour or so earlier at a surplus dealer's space not far away it definitelly wasn't the normal HP keyboard as it was part of some other section of the system used as the operations console and was connected via AN/MS connectors and cables. Have absolutely no idea as to the function of the whole system. If there's something on the hard disk when it comes up it may give me a good clue. But I gotta get it lit up first. So, does anybody have a very decent looking keyboard and HP-HIL k'bd cable they're willing to sell to me? Keyboard model *I think* should be a 46020 or 46021 or a 98203C. I don't know the exact differences as I have no pictures or specs. but they are mentioned in the "Peripheral Installation Guide for the HP 9000 Series 200/300", which I have had for some time, as being used with the 300-series. I'll post a separate request for a k'brd and other info in a separate msg. later today or tomorrow. Need feet for bottom of the boxes too but probably large stick-on rubber feet should be okay. I've got two old non-HP fixed frequency monitors I'll drag out of the garage and try after I get a k'bd. The video interface card is a 98547A which is not mentioned in the Periph. Inst. Guide. I saw a few DEC items: A rather lonely RL02 standing amongst a bunch of fairly new amateur gear; a VT320 and VT 420 with a few of DEC's serial cables; a couple of AUI-to-BNC translator modules for $10 each (Too much? Just right?) and little else that I could see. Bought a couple more Ethernet NICs for $10 new (Intel 8/16); 3.5-to-5.25" floppy adaptors for $1 each; 25' CAT5 cables for $3 each; "The Hard Disk Technical Guide", "The Modem Tech. Guide", and "The Network Tech. Guide" all w/CDROMs, published by Micro House, for $5 each; misc. cables and bits. Hard disks were even cheaper than I'd ever seen but had no extra bucks to spend, dang it. Also saw a pallet full (4' x 4' x 5' high) of Sun SPARC LX boxen; a Grid computer, don't know exact model as I don't know Grids, but I'd wager it was early. No model # on bottom or back. It weighed a ton it seemed, painted black. Guy wanted $30 but by then I was flat broke by then :( ; lots of C64 and C128 machines and accessories; tons of PeeCee stuff of all ages and condx; pallets full of printers and monitors; lots of IBM MicroChannel machines and boards; several HP Vectras; boxes of network stuff of varying conditions and types; boxes of shrinkwrapped software; bunches of other stuff I can't recall at the moment. Lots and lots of amateur radio gear of course. I wish I had more money to spend there dang it! Importantly, I did score a few really hard to find parts for the WWII BC-191F transmitter I'm trying to restore plus a few military connectors for some gear in the collection; also got a couple of test equipment manuals for units I have in the collection. Still wish I had more $$$ so I could get more old gear and parts! Dang. Saw a couple of antique radio collector friends from other distant parts of the country; made contacts with a couple of folks who may have parts for the BC-191 and the virtually identical BC-375 transmitters. Understand from another email list (Greenkeys) that a couple of fellow teletype collectors were there too. Not much TTY gear to be found though :( May have bumped into one of you ClassicCmp folks but we wouldn't have known each other visually. All-in-all a very good time. Free shuttle buses running frequently all day every day between the several distant parking areas (we parked free at the Salem Mall) and that made it very convenient to haul a heavy object or several bag loads back to the car :) Something for everybody there. Rain held off on Fri and Sat was really beautiful. I may go again someday as my uncle lives in nearby Xenia, OH and I have basically free room and board :) Only 360 miles from home so I don't have too much of an excuse not to go especially if after I find a decent paying job and could have extra $$ to spend. Wonder what the attendance was this year? No motel rooms available within a 75 mile or more radius. Columbus area was reported to be closest rooms. Incidentally, you locals may have noticed there's quite a different scene at Mendelson's Surplus in the past year or so. We went there to pickup a Hamvention ticket for myself and I was pleasantly surprised. New minor league baseball stadium being built across the street, an audio store just opened inside the main building, new parking lot in back of the church, a new Mendelson's outlet store next door across the new parking lot. But it apparently still has the good ol' 3rd floor full of all kinds of parts, equipment and untold amounts of obscure goodies! :-) Yes indeed, next year :) Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 11:36:46 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > In my scrap yard looking I came across a batch of circuit boards near some > old 8" floppy drives (Shugart, Qume, etc. and all bad I think, or > troublesome) and I am wondering if they mean anything to anybody. They are > large, maybe 11x17 or more, and the name on them is Scientific Micro > Systems. The only connector I remember is a about a 4" wide edge connector > on one end of the board in the middle. What sort of chips have they? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 11:39:27 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? In-Reply-To: <37416B69.F9CD51CA@surfree.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > Huw Davies wrote: > > I don't think PCs will ever be quite as "classical" as say a PERQ due > to the numbers involved. I wouldn't be surprised if there were three > > I dearly hope that someday, high-quality fast stable efficient > well-designed machines will be running systems that we have yet to > imagine, and PCs in the modern sense will become antiques. Of course, I > doubt that any of the people who have had to deal with PCs will go back > to them for old times' sake. I'm sure that's what many old timer's think about the Altair but look what's happening there. Time makes us forget sometimes just how miserable past experiences really were. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 11:41:48 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:06 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <80256775.004651A6.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > I've tested this hypothesis in the lab and have concluded that they do not > > stack well. They are angled slightly at the top. With enough Macs you > > could build a suspension bridge, but I wouldn't drive a car over it. > > Suspension bridge? I take it you mean an arch bridge... Sure. > The way to build a wall is to stack them not all the same way round. The most > stable method is probably LRRLLRRLL..., but LRLRLR would probably work (L and R > meaning Macs facing Left and Right respectively) LLRR wouldn't work. You'd have an unstable zigzag. LRLR is far more optimal. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From ss at allegro.com Tue May 18 12:32:04 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: HP 9000/300 (was: Dayton) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518091148.00a97780@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <199905181732.KAA29583@bart.allegro.com> Re: HP 9000/3xx and HP-UX: > machine to hang it upon! :) BTW, ver. 7.0 is near or at the end of HP-UX > support for the 300's. Have BASIC-UX ver. 5.0 w/license and docs too! Our 9000/350 has HP-UX 8.x on it, IIRC (can't power it up just now), and some users inside HP were known to run 9.0 on some models (68030 and bigger?), but it was never officially supported (I think). > Have BASIC-UX ver. 5.0 w/license and docs too! Wow! > I've got two old non-HP fixed frequency monitors I'll drag out of the > garage and try after I get a k'bd. The video interface card is a 98547A > which is not mentioned in the Periph. Inst. Guide. 98547A : High Resolution, six-plane color, bit-mapped graphics board, 1024x768 pixels. List price in 1987 & 1988: $4500. SS From scott at saskatoon.com Tue May 18 12:43:02 1999 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: CURSOR and Commodore cassettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, Scott Walde wrote: > project. For anyone who's interested, I've released v0.1 of viccas, a > program which converts PET, VIC-20 and C64 tapes to .t64 files. (I use > Find it at: > http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca/code/code.html I don't usually reply to my own messages, but for anyone interested, I've just posted a WIN32 binary of this program. ttyl srw From kmar at lle.rochester.edu Tue May 18 13:37:36 1999 From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Ken Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990518143735.00946da0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> At 12:34 PM 5/18/99 -0400, you wrote: >Here's a bit of a report of what I found at the Hamvention. I was there on >Friday from about 09:15 to 17:30 except lunch for which we went off the >grounds and on Saturday from about 08:00 to 13:30. Therefore with my method >of checking every promising box and poking around under tables I saw about >3/4 of the whole fleamarket. I was looking for quite a variety of things >-not just old computers. > >Stuff I dragged home were two DG Ones (model 2208A), two DG printers which >go with them (model 2230), one AC power supply and one printer cable all >for $15; VMEbus boards including one unopened Force Computers SYS68Y DRAM-2 >memory board ($5) and four Motorola CODEX boards, $15; an IOMEGA Ditto Easy >3200 external tape drive (Travan 3) with cable and power supply, $25. > >And my best find of all: a virtually mint, seemingly unused HP9000/300 >computer with 7958B hard drive (150 Mb IIRC) and 9144A 16-track tape drive. >A label on the 98574 CPU module indicated it's been upgraded to a 375 which >is just about the ultimate of the 300-series. A 68030 processor running at >50MHz and 16 Mb of RAM. Nice! > >I've been casually looking for one of the 300's for a couple of years. My >ex-colleague who's an engineering manager from my ex-company's German >parent company told me last week when he visited the house that an HP >9000/332 system was promised to me and will be shipped to me from their >Chicago facility late this year. > >My new 9000/375 system was built into a 19" rack enclosure which was in >turn bolted into a fiberglas transit case about 3' tall, 2' wide by about >2.5' deep. It was part of a military surplus system. I did not get a chance >to find the AN system designation on the rack or case, just that it weighed >97 pounds and required two persons to carry. > >Apparently it had been built and not used *ever*. Just stuck in a military >warehouse probably as a result of a military contract which didn't go >anywhere or as a result of the Cold War ceasing or something. I absolutely >cannot see *any* dust on the leading edges of the fan blades so this system >has maybe only an hour or two at most of operation :) SNs are from mid-89. >There's a Federal Stock Number or system part number rubber stamped onto >the right side of the computer box. A probably earlier FSN or contractor's >PN has been blacked out with paint (about 3/8" x 1.5" strip) and the >present number rubber stamped onto the case after the upgrade to the 375 >model was done. A little ugly, but what the hey! It shows a bit about the >original purpose of the machine. That's the only indication of any special >use of it. The update was done in December '91 according to a date >handwritten on the CPU board tag inside. > >I was passing by the previous owner's space when I overheard one of the >guys asking "What is it?" as they were taking the cover off the 7958B box >to try and figure out just what *it* was. I looked and saw the main box was >a 300 system (Whoa!! Let's stop and look!), became interested and checked >it out. I offered an explanation as to what it was, what it was usually >used for, typical processors used in the 300's, etc. Apparently the >then-new owner who'd just dragged it to his space from a nearby surplus >dealer didn't see a use for it for himself and offered the HP 9000 items to >me and I paid him nearly all the remaining money I had to spend: $40 for >all three boxes. He kept the transit case and 19" rack which bolted inside >as he had a use for it back at home in Houston. He didn't recognize at >first when he bought the whole transit case (for $50) that those 3 HP boxes >which were clamped onto rack slide plates were actually a computer. He was >happy somebody got it who knew what it was and could use it and he was >happy to have the transit case. I love happiness :-) Only thing I had to >promise him was to email him with what I found on the disk. He's a UNI* >system admin and had enough UNI* machines of his own. I'm surprised he >hadn't seen an HP 9000 machine before but these 300's were obsolete some >time ago and he indicated he was always an Intel-based UNI* user. > >I've got a copy of HP-UX 7.0 on tape with the license, both still >shrinkwrapped, and manual set that I've had for some time. Now I've got a >machine to hang it upon! :) BTW, ver. 7.0 is near or at the end of HP-UX >support for the 300's. Have BASIC-UX ver. 5.0 w/license and docs too! > >The keyboard and monitor were some sort of rugged, militarized things built >into an operator's station. The fellow who had it never got from the >surplus dealer as it obviously didn't quite interest him and maybe he >didn't realize what it was. If it's what I *think* I saw an hour or so >earlier at a surplus dealer's space not far away it definitelly wasn't the >normal HP keyboard as it was part of some other section of the system used >as the operations console and was connected via AN/MS connectors and >cables. Have absolutely no idea as to the function of the whole system. If >there's something on the hard disk when it comes up it may give me a good >clue. But I gotta get it lit up first. > >So, does anybody have a very decent looking keyboard and HP-HIL k'bd cable >they're willing to sell to me? Keyboard model *I think* should be a 46020 >or 46021 or a 98203C. I have a fairly substantial pile of 46021 keyboards, HP-HIL cables, and mice for the 9000-300 series, and you are welcome to have one of each for free. All I ask is reimbursmment for the shipping charges. Regards, I don't know the exact differences as I have no >pictures or specs. but they are mentioned in the "Peripheral Installation >Guide for the HP 9000 Series 200/300", which I have had for some time, as >being used with the 300-series. I'll post a separate request for a k'brd >and other info in a separate msg. later today or tomorrow. Need feet for >bottom of the boxes too but probably large stick-on rubber feet should be okay. > >I've got two old non-HP fixed frequency monitors I'll drag out of the >garage and try after I get a k'bd. The video interface card is a 98547A >which is not mentioned in the Periph. Inst. Guide. > >I saw a few DEC items: A rather lonely RL02 standing amongst a bunch of >fairly new amateur gear; a VT320 and VT 420 with a few of DEC's serial >cables; a couple of AUI-to-BNC translator modules for $10 each (Too much? >Just right?) and little else that I could see. > >Bought a couple more Ethernet NICs for $10 new (Intel 8/16); 3.5-to-5.25" >floppy adaptors for $1 each; 25' CAT5 cables for $3 each; "The Hard Disk >Technical Guide", "The Modem Tech. Guide", and "The Network Tech. Guide" >all w/CDROMs, published by Micro House, for $5 each; misc. cables and bits. >Hard disks were even cheaper than I'd ever seen but had no extra bucks to >spend, dang it. > >Also saw a pallet full (4' x 4' x 5' high) of Sun SPARC LX boxen; a Grid >computer, don't know exact model as I don't know Grids, but I'd wager it >was early. No model # on bottom or back. It weighed a ton it seemed, >painted black. Guy wanted $30 but by then I was flat broke by then :( ; >lots of C64 and C128 machines and accessories; tons of PeeCee stuff of all >ages and condx; pallets full of printers and monitors; lots of IBM >MicroChannel machines and boards; several HP Vectras; boxes of network >stuff of varying conditions and types; boxes of shrinkwrapped software; >bunches of other stuff I can't recall at the moment. Lots and lots of >amateur radio gear of course. > >I wish I had more money to spend there dang it! > >Importantly, I did score a few really hard to find parts for the WWII >BC-191F transmitter I'm trying to restore plus a few military connectors >for some gear in the collection; also got a couple of test equipment >manuals for units I have in the collection. Still wish I had more $$$ so I >could get more old gear and parts! Dang. > >Saw a couple of antique radio collector friends from other distant parts of >the country; made contacts with a couple of folks who may have parts for >the BC-191 and the virtually identical BC-375 transmitters. Understand from >another email list (Greenkeys) that a couple of fellow teletype collectors >were there too. Not much TTY gear to be found though :( May have bumped >into one of you ClassicCmp folks but we wouldn't have known each other >visually. > >All-in-all a very good time. Free shuttle buses running frequently all day >every day between the several distant parking areas (we parked free at the >Salem Mall) and that made it very convenient to haul a heavy object or >several bag loads back to the car :) > >Something for everybody there. Rain held off on Fri and Sat was really >beautiful. I may go again someday as my uncle lives in nearby Xenia, OH and >I have basically free room and board :) Only 360 miles from home so I don't >have too much of an excuse not to go especially if after I find a decent >paying job and could have extra $$ to spend. > >Wonder what the attendance was this year? No motel rooms available within a >75 mile or more radius. Columbus area was reported to be closest rooms. > >Incidentally, you locals may have noticed there's quite a different scene >at Mendelson's Surplus in the past year or so. We went there to pickup a >Hamvention ticket for myself and I was pleasantly surprised. New minor >league baseball stadium being built across the street, an audio store just >opened inside the main building, new parking lot in back of the church, a >new Mendelson's outlet store next door across the new parking lot. But it >apparently still has the good ol' 3rd floor full of all kinds of parts, >equipment and untold amounts of obscure goodies! :-) > >Yes indeed, next year :) > >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa > > Kenneth L. Marshall Research Engineer, Optical Materials Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 250 East River Road Rochester, NY 14623 Phone:(716)-275-8247 Fax: (716)-275-5960 From sander at Cam045101.student.utwente.nl Tue May 18 13:42:16 1999 From: sander at Cam045101.student.utwente.nl (Sander Ruitenbeek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > I think we need to clarify collecting vs acquiring. The reason I bought a > IBM 5140 is that I think it represents a unique point in computer > development. The reason I bought a 486 clone is that I wanted a cheap Linux > server/router box. The appeal of a PS/2, or even a 5150, is kind of in the > middle combined with there current low prices. Well, the IBM 5140 stands in the front row when we talk about PCs, even the new ones. They still have (in one way or another) the ISA bus. I mean, that's one of the most visible things inside the PC. > Certainly nobody needs my or anyone elses approval prior to collecting > anything they see fit to, but I do tend to agree that few 486 or pentium > clones will ever fall into what we conventionally think of collectible > items. They are too common and too similar for my tastes. The PS/2, at least the first ones, were not too common if you take it to todays standards. Now everybody has a PC, and it's all Pentium or higher/equivalent. What's rare today is to have a development cpu or board in your 'clone'. Just my .00002 cents. Sander From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue May 18 13:51:14 1999 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518091148.00a97780@206.231.8.2> from Christian Fandt at "May 18, 99 12:34:10 pm" Message-ID: <199905181851.OAA20498@hiway1.exit109.com> > And my best find of all: a virtually mint, seemingly unused HP9000/300 > computer with 7958B hard drive (150 Mb IIRC) and 9144A 16-track tape drive. > A label on the 98574 CPU module indicated it's been upgraded to a 375 which > is just about the ultimate of the 300-series. A 68030 processor running at > 50MHz and 16 Mb of RAM. Nice! > > My new 9000/375 system was built into a 19" rack enclosure which was in > turn bolted into a fiberglas transit case about 3' tall, 2' wide by about > 2.5' deep. It was part of a military surplus system. I did not get a chance > to find the AN system designation on the rack or case, just that it weighed > 97 pounds and required two persons to carry. US Army Maneuver Control System, Version 10. The box you have was box #2 of what would have bene configured as a 3-box or 6-box set. Other boxes included one which held the monitor (and doubled as a desk), the communications processor, and the powersupply. If you look, you should find a tag from either Loral or Ford Aerospace, as they were the MCS version 10 contractor. From dcoward at pressstart.com Tue May 18 13:58:47 1999 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Soviet/Russian classic computers? In-Reply-To: <19990518105859.29964@firepower> References: <4.1.19990517172447.009529d0@199.108.34.2> <4.1.19990517172447.009529d0@199.108.34.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990518111927.0094f2a0@199.108.34.2> Well many thanks to "DM", Megan, and Sergey for their replies. I like learning something new everyday. I have to confess that all I knew about Soviet personal computers came from a picture I saw about 15 years ago. It was the picture if a Apple II motherboard and keyboard mounted in a wooden box. At 10:58 AM 5/18/99 +0400, Sergey wrote: > You'll need to know Russian (or have >translation software handy) to read most of them. OT: That brings up a good point. I've tried before, searching for "something" to translate Russian pages. What I found was Intertrans - http://www.seagull.net/tranexp/intertran/ But on the pages I wanted translated, it seem to only translate every 10th word, which could have been a coincident. :) Does it help for me to add Russian to my Netscape language preferences? (I'm using Communicator 4.5) Are there any suggestions for a better & free translator? Thanks again, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue May 18 14:17:55 1999 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Soviet/Russian classic computers? Message-ID: <199905181918.OAA18830@falcon.inetnebr.com> Have you tried AltaVista's "Babelfish"? http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate? (And yes, the "?" is part of the URL) > >OT: That brings up a good point. I've tried before, searching >for "something" to translate Russian pages. What I found was > Are there any suggestions for a better & free translator? > Bill Richman incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 12:51:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 17, 99 06:39:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 873 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/10ff9459/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 13:29:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990517201703.009937f0@mcmanis.com> from "Chuck McManis" at May 17, 99 08:18:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/5bd65887/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 13:37:01 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <199905180847.EAA02842@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 18, 99 04:46:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1452 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/dab3117f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 13:39:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990517225233.00ee5560@agora.rdrop.com> from "James Willing" at May 17, 99 10:52:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 627 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/9aafd4e7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 13:47:07 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? In-Reply-To: <199905181315.XAA14021@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> from "Huw Davies" at May 18, 99 11:15:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1143 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/570a7b8b/attachment.ksh From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 09:53:14 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990517231345.03b8df10@office.ao.com> References: <3740E9EA.882D8924@mindsprint.com> Message-ID: >For the most part, "generic" (e.g. Costco "brand") fax paper works just fine >in both of my 700s. However, the "real" paper that came with one of the >units (I have one almost unused roll left) prints a much darker tone in >both machines, suggesting it is more sensitive to heat than "garden variety" >(presuming Costco sells garden variety) fax paper. I have yet to try more >than one other brand (a roll of "panasonic" paper - lord knows who really >made it) and it also prints "light." I am starting to feel really guilty about the Silent 700 I left in the Goodwill AS-IS (next stop the dumpster) area, but in any case it had a roll of light green paper in it. This was the earliest unit I think I have seen too, a huge suitcase as opposed to briefcase sized unit, dated I think about 1973. From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 10:03:09 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems In-Reply-To: <001401bea139$e8946640$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: >SMS was the maker of a number of 8X300-based FDC's. These were about 10x12" >things with loads of TTL, normally bounted in a 17x18x15" (wxlxh) cast Most of what you say really rings a bell in my aging core stack, except that several of the cards were absolutely much larger than 10x12". Second point is would anybody want these? From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 10:07:31 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <001901bea13a$53705b40$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: >You won't find eBay wanting to "get in the middle" in that way. They get a >fee based on the high bid. They don't really care whether the transaction >is completed. Of course, the seller gets a credit for his fee in the case >where the sale isn't completed, but eBay still gets the money. Here is the response I got from eBay this morning, and my question below it. I considered this a lame side stepping answer and emailed back saying so. Thank you for writing. The best single way to size up eBay members is by judging there feedback for yourself. eBay has no control over private email and direct sales are not only not sanctioned but are a violation of eBay rules and will draw sanctions from eBay when proven. They are very dangerous. Especially if the seller is not an eBay member in good standing. In fact these are not even "eBay scams or frauds", they are not eBay at all! eBay is not a party to the actual transactions that take place between members. eBay acts as a link between the buyer and seller. We just provide the automated bidding system. We do not authenticate users, we do not verify items, we do not guarantee that you will receive payment or the item. However, we are extremely concerned about our community and your safety within our community. To that end, we work with third parties to offer you services to authenticate users, insure and escrow your transactions. We hope this helps! :^) Original message follows: ------------------------- How do I check on eBay scams or frauds I hear about on newsgroups or mailing lists? Recently someone reported on a mailing list I follow that people are contacting second bidders and pretending to be the seller, requesting payment be sent to a PO Box, then skipping with the money. How do I find out if this is true or hoax? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue May 18 15:13:33 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton Message-ID: <19990518201333.8176.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christian Fandt wrote: > Here's a bit of a report of what I found at the Hamvention... > a couple of AUI-to-BNC translator modules for $10 each (Too much? > Just right?) I wouldn't pay more. They are $10-$19 new, when you can find vendors that still carry them. > Also saw a pallet full (4' x 4' x 5' high) of Sun SPARC LX boxen I saw that pile, over by the white tent in the corner. I didn't get an LX (they were stripped and dirty), but I did buy an SMC segmented hub from those guys (the AUI seems to be non-functional, but the RJ45's all work) > a Grid computer, don't know exact model as I don't know Grids, but I'd > wager it was early. No model # on bottom or back. It weighed a ton it seemed, > painted black. Guy wanted $30 but by then I was flat broke by then :( ; I saw one of those near the corner of the building, probably the same one. > lots of C64 and C128 machines and accessories... One guy near the Grid had a box of C-64 and C-128 parts. I didn't make an offer because I didn't want to haul them back to the car. The only interesting device there was what looked like a 64C (wedge-shaped case) with no C= logos on it and a sticker on the bottom that indicated that the case was made in South Australia. A Dick Smith special perhaps? > Wonder what the attendance was this year? No motel rooms available within a > 75 mile or more radius. Columbus area was reported to be closest rooms. I'm glad to live close enough to day-trip. Motel rooms in that part of the state book up well in advance. Attendance in years past was many thousands of people. I'm sure it's still thousands, but my impression is not as many thousands as it used to be before the spring and summer Dayton Computerfests at the same venue. *Those* are nice because all the tables are indoors and people like us bring things to sell to other people like us. (And this August, from what I hear, the Dayton Amiga club and Columbus Amiga club (AmiCON) are planning on putting on something jointly). -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue May 18 15:24:16 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 18, 1999 08:07:31 AM Message-ID: <199905182024.OAA07406@calico.litterbox.com> > Here is the response I got from eBay this morning, and my question below > it. I considered this a lame side stepping answer and emailed back saying > so. They're absolutely right. They have no possible way to control this. The e-mail does not pass through their system. If they DID get involved suddenly they'd be responsible for all the deals that go bad, and that would swiftly bankrupt them in today's litigous society. So Caviet Emptor. If you don't get the note from e-bay saying "you won acution foo, contact bar@wherever.net to close the deal, and someone sends you e-mail offering you the same thing, treat it like anyone else e-mailing from the cold. Verify the address. Get a phone number and talk to them, maybe. The most e-bay could do is throw them off E-bay if they were members anyway. To be honest I'm getting tired of the "ebay sucks because" threads, of which this is clearly a part. The original note was a valid "heads up", I agree - it's a scam I hadn't thought of, but I think we've worn it to death now. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 15:32:30 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton In-Reply-To: <19990518201333.8176.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > One guy near the Grid had a box of C-64 and C-128 parts. I didn't make an > offer because I didn't want to haul them back to the car. The only interesting > device there was what looked like a 64C (wedge-shaped case) with no C= logos > on it and a sticker on the bottom that indicated that the case was made in > South Australia. A Dick Smith special perhaps? Nope, just an after-market enclosure to make your 64 look like a 64C. You'll have noticed the keyboard had brown keys, rather than the regular white ones on the 64C. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 15:39:16 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > eBay has no control over private email and direct sales are not only not > sanctioned but are a violation of eBay rules and will draw sanctions > from eBay when proven. They are very dangerous. Especially if the seller > is not an eBay member in good standing. In fact these are not even "eBay > scams or frauds", they are not eBay at all! > > eBay is not a party to the actual transactions that take place between > members. eBay acts as a link between the buyer and seller. We just > provide the automated bidding system. We do not authenticate users, we > do not verify items, we do not guarantee that you will receive payment > or the item. However, we are extremely concerned about our community and > your safety within our community. To that end, we work with third > parties to offer you services to authenticate users, insure and escrow > your transactions. Oh, OK. I see. They don't even guarantee auctions played out within their construct, so they are just as at risk as sales done outside of eBay, yet they claim direct sales are "very dangerous". ANY eBay sale is dangerous. Feedback can be faked, but is at least one good way to size up a seller. I say more power to the people who leech ebay to find willing buyers to their crap, bypassing ebay altogether. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue May 18 15:39:50 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs Message-ID: <19990518203950.3177.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > >... wouldn't turn down a PDP8/e mind you. > > Why the 8/e in particular? The PDP8 is a very elegant machine, so I can > understand wanting to own one (I have a couple...) but I can't see why > you'd pick that one model. It is the most common one, I guess... In my case the -8/e was the _last_ one I got. I'm personally fond of the pre-OMNIBUS machines (-8/L and -8/i) for the simple matter that they are made of wads of TTL and assembled in such a fashion that it's entirely possible to envision how this gate connects to that flop, etc, and trace the operation of the ALU, etc. The appeal of the OMNIBUS machines is that it's easier to hang modern devices off of them. Of course, it probably comes down to the question of "what did you encounter first". In my case, it was an -8/L followed by an -8/i followed by an -8/a. As for most common, around here, I ran across as many -8/a's as all other kinds put together (during the 1980's when such things were to be found in the wild at all). I wish I could have rescued the two -8/m's that were at OSU analyzing horse urine for the state racing commission. They had a rack of Diablo RK03's on a switch with one CPU attached to a mass spectrometer and the other CPU attached to a 9-track and a Tektronics printing terminal. It was four racks of CPUs, disks and such. The last time I saw them was 1987, give or take a year. It's where I cut my teeth on RTS-8 (during the maintenance time on the mass spec). -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From max82 at surfree.com Tue May 18 14:42:37 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Soviet/Russian classic computers? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518111927.0094f2a0@199.108.34.2> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Doug Coward wrote: > Are there any suggestions for a better & free translator? Yes, me :) --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From a2k at one.net Tue May 18 15:53:38 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > >Anyway, Macs are prety neat to stack (especialy the classic ones), > >and should form a neat wall (maybe for seperation between dining > >room and kitchen ?) or can be used as base for a desk etc. > > I think one of the people on one of the mac oriented lists I follow has a > grid of 4x4 compact macs. Really freaks some people out who see them all in > action (yes software exists for doing tricks over cheap appletalk with such > a grid). > > Eh? I'd be REALLY interested in this one. Where can I find the software? Thanks, Kevin From owad at caesarville.net Tue May 18 11:57:51 1999 From: owad at caesarville.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull Message-ID: <199905182101.OAA12144@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I have an opportunity to acquire a Honeywell Bull mainframe, free of charge. I don't have many details on it, but I'm told the computer is about 4x3x2 feet and supported 30 terminals. Any opinions on whether or not this is a computer worth saving, and if it is worth the space it will take up? Thanks. Tom Owad From a2k at one.net Tue May 18 16:01:54 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: <3740BA28.CEA73EFB@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Sure, I have one of these neat little teleprinters as well. It's just regular old fax paper (becoming more rare, however) used in non-plain paper fax machines. Available a Staples, Office Max, whatever your local business supply store. I use Brother Anti-Curl paper and it works quite well. Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k@one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon@nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 17 May 1999, bluoval wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find a few rolls of thermal paper for a TI > Silent 700? I have only about half a roll left and don't want to waste > what little I have if I can't find more. Is there any suitable > replacements for this paper? > > Robert > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 16:06:00 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <199905182101.OAA12144@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Tom Owad wrote: > I have an opportunity to acquire a Honeywell Bull mainframe, free of > charge. I don't have many details on it, but I'm told the computer is > about 4x3x2 feet and supported 30 terminals. Any opinions on whether or > not this is a computer worth saving, and if it is worth the space it will > take up? I recently picked-up what I believe to be this machine's previous generation: http://www.siconic.com/crap/dpsgroup.jpg (A picture showing my Honeywell DPS-6 mainframe group) Is it worth rescuing? Sure. If you've got the room for it. I hope you are prepared for all the peripheral racks that probably accompanying (and that the person giving you this stuff failed to mention). Good luck. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From PaKing at exchange.ml.com Tue May 18 16:08:55 1999 From: PaKing at exchange.ml.com (King, Paul (CICG)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? Message-ID: <59523CAF2AA3D111A8AB00805FE67F2EFEE269@ewst03.exchange.ml.com> Unaccustomed as I am to keeping my mouth shut, I will endeavor to weigh in on "Are IBM PCs classic?" - even though I just joined this classic computer list today. Since I just joined this "list" today I do not know what prompted "Are IBM PCs classic?". So forgive me in advance if my views have already been offered by others. "Are IBM PCs classic?" is something that I have wondered about and certainly needs to be addressed. If one is being precise, then when one says "IBM PCs" one is referring to the original IBM Personal Computer, introduced in 1981, with a 62.5 watt power supply, Type 1 or 2 motherboard, INTEL 8088 clocked at 4.77 MHz, four ROM sockets, five 8-bit expansion adapter slots, two full height diskette (floppy disk) drive bays and 16 or 64 KILO!-bytes of soldered main memory. If one is alluding, more generally, to all the, more or less, compatible machines that followed (including the IBM PC/XT), then you have thrown open the gates to such a broad spectrum of (sometimes very interesting and significant) machines that the discussion becomes cumbersome. In the interest of circumscribing the discussion, my comments are limited to just the original PC, plus any other "highly (BIOS) compatible" 8-bit bus, 4.77 MHZ PC compatible; like the original Compaq and other early examples. Now... When saying "classic", if you intend to be using standard, plain American English, then the question may be addressed as follows... The American Heritage dictionary has 6 definitions for classic adj. And they are (with my assessment): Definition #1. Of the highest rank or class. My collection has, among other things, five IBM PCs (Type 1 or Type 2) and, wonderful as they are, I would rather assign the "highest rank or class" distinction, as far as a classic digital computer goes, to the likes of machines like ENIAC, ILLIAC 4, System 360/95, Cray (1 and up), etc. My dad worked on ENIAC. Definition #2. Serving as an outstanding representative of its kind; model. If by PC it is agreed that we mean "IBM PC hardware compatible micro computer system" then I would say that the IBM PC is an "outstanding representative" of a IBM PC hardware compatible micro computer system" - having actually initially established and then continually defined this kind of computer. Definition #3. Having lasting significance or recognized worth. The demand for, and eventual numbers sold are a clear indication that the IBM PC had a "recognized worth" to a great many people. It wasn't cheap. Had it not had recognized worth, few would have sold and it would have suffered a fate like the PC Jr. Of course IBM PC is no longer made new so the recognized worth is not what it used to be. But many are still very much in use. To glimpse just one aspect of its "lasting significance" take a look at the IBM PC main memory allocation map. The fact that the PC compatible world is STILL contending with the fixed 640 KB boundary and display adapter memory map above that indicates that the significance is lasting. There are many more aspects of this. So the IBM PC has lasting significance, and still has recognized worth. Definition #4. Pertaining to ancient Greek or Roman literature or art. No, the IBM PC does not in any way pertain to these. Definition #5. Of or in accordance with established principals or methods in the arts and sciences. Yes, the IBM PC indeed uses well "established principals and methods" - in the sciences at least. Nothing very adventurous was attempted in its design. Its design was executed by the worlds mightiest computer company. That was where the "adventurous" aspect came in. IBM being IBM. It was a very adventurous thing for IBM to do. What eventually happened to the worlds mightiest computer company, as a result of their little, adventurous creation, makes a very compelling and ironic tale indeed. But as for the actual IBM PC hardware itself, It uses normal TTL and CMOS logic and has an: internal power supply, motherboard (with Intel CPU, dynamic ram memory, ROM, adapter bus), cassette I/O port! floppy disk drive(s), detached keyboard, I/O adapters (for display, serial, parallel ports), CP/M-86, P-System Pascal, DOS (CP/M inspired), Visicalc, etc. This was all very well established by others before IBM ventured in. I am not qualified to address "in accordance with established arts" part of this definition, but the case sure looks like a classic IBM design, at least to me. Definition #6. Of lasting historical or literary significance. Literary? Not. Historical? Absolutely. The IBM PC system hardware provided a very, very good (though, unfortunately, not a really, really great) foundation upon which an entire genera of useful, rapidly advancing, affordable, accessible, (and eventually quite powerful) personal computing and data processing machines have been built. And are continuing to be built, even to this day. Plus, the very existence of the IBM PC (as good or bad as you would rate the hardware for the time) directly fostered the rapid, stable development of the entire personal computer industry. This industry was not CREATED by the IBM PC. The industry was already there (Apple, S-100, TRS-80, Sinclair, etc, etc) trying to bootstrap itself into viability. But the "endorsement" of the whole concept, by IBM creating a tangible, workable platform, that would certainly not fold up due to lack of financial resources, created an environment "comfortable" enough for the wealthy to pour in their capital and for the young and adventurous to pour their very lives. So... The IBM PC is a classic? The IBM PC is a classic general purpose stored program digital computer system. The IBM PC is a classic micro computer system. The IBM PC is a classic IBM "PC compatible" computer, odd as that may sound, and in fact defines that genre. The IBM PC is a classic little computer that you can put your arms around. The IBM PC is not a classic outside of it's league. The IBM PC is not a classic big "glass house", "mainframe" computer. The IBM PC is not one kind of classic since it doesn't even have one blinking light on the front (and I really mean "blinking" as in flashing on and off). Everybody knows that you have to have lots of blinking lights to have a REAL computer. I cut my computer teeth on an IBM 360/44 (with the 200ns high speed! register option, and that little internal pancake disk drive). It took me quite awhile to get over the fascination of watching the light show dancing around on the front panel. Lights went out with the 370 mid-life kickers and things just weren't the same after that. The IBM PC is not a classic big computer - the kind that put ITS arms around YOU. And those of you who know what I mean, know what I mean. However... If by "classic" you are using some other definition (which you have every right to do) then one can not address the question without knowing the special definition that you have in mind. For example, if by "classic" it is meant that they will eventually be sought after by overly mature, as in aging, men and women looking for a way to bring back some very fond memories of a more vital, adventurous time. And willing to pay (possibly large) sums of money to get such an object of desire - so that they can brag sagely about it to their (also older) knowing friends. If that is what is meant by "classic" then... The IBM PC is not a classic - for everyone. I know of no "classic" anything that is. Will the IBM PC be a popular classic as time goes by? I don't know. But I can tell you that it has become popular with me. I'm way more overly mature than I would like to be and, ahem, I have a original IBM PC, with a Type 1 motherboard and a serial number of _235785. Top that! I am sure some of you can. I plan to de-expand it back to an earlier representative configuration - with one SINGLE SIDED diskette drive! And boot DOS 1.0 or 3.3. And if I find a Type 1 with a number __99999 or less, then I will investigate procuring that. And if I find a Type 1 with a number ___999 or less, then I will really investigate procuring that - and so forth. No I'm not a nut. But I am a collector on the look-out. I have a small (25) "PC" collection (with a cut off at the first Pentium) mostly because I can't stand to see fully functional digital computers, who did nothing but serve their masters, trashed and lost forever. I certainly don't need to find an earlier Type 1, I already have a pretty nice example. What I NEED to find is a fully functional IBM PC Expansion Chassis (with two 10 Meg disk drives) to connect to my Type 1. This could run everything from DOS 1.1 to Windows 3.0. Are IBM PCs classic? Yes, by and large they really are - though not for everyone. Now... If you know where I could get my hands on a working IBM PC Expansion Chassis, especially one headed for oblivion, please let me know. I am, Paul King at PaKing@exchange.ml.com From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 15:48:11 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Let's face it, there are more things out there of one thing (Mac's for >instance) than can possibly be saved. Unless there is a person or group >of people who is willing and able to take those machines and do something >useful with them rather than having them sit in a garage, they may as well >not keep taking up space. There is a HUGE demand for cheap old computers, BUT only as working systems with the training to get people started. I met a teacher yesterday that as a hobby finds old macs and assembles them into complete systems (for him no modem, but Mac and printer, essentially a word processor) and passes them on to students at his cost. He does a dozen or more systems per year, which is a fairly high percentage of his students. This is NOT a question of end user demand, but of middleman logistics. An idea I have rolled around, that I think could be fairly successfull is the $99 computer store. Other than all the details of a business, what I worry about would be how to get sufficient supplies of older computers, and keep costs low enough. From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 16:08:27 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at May 17, 99 06:39:57 pm Message-ID: >IMHO there should be more to computer collecting (or at least my sort of >computer collecting) than building a pile of boxes with different >nameplates on the front... Actually I think a rather novel collection would be machines that are identical outside except for local branding. It all depends on the person doing the collecting. From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue May 18 16:17:54 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: So CA rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990518062228.2e679612@earthlink.net> References: <028b01bea298$95cfb9e0$c3e70cc2@p> Message-ID: >For anyone in So., Calif. with a truck, Barry's (Artesia blvd in Gardena) >has a Tek 40xx graphics unit. outside in the front of his salvage yard. >Cost =??, I guess cheap as he is moving. >-Dave Where, what is Barry's? I have been out on Artesia, but that was for that Electronics and Computer surplus city joint, and didn't notice anything else. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue May 18 17:02:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: (fwd) WARNING! New Ebay SCAM! (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <001901bea13a$53705b40$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990518170247.22d70018@intellistar.net> Mike, Isn't there a discussion group hosted on E-bay? If there is, then you should try posting a question there asking users if they've been hit by this kind of scam. You could also try posting the same question to some the news groups such as the antique radio groups. It would be interesting to see the results. I'm sure you'd never hear about these scams from E-bay. Joe At 08:07 AM 5/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >>You won't find eBay wanting to "get in the middle" in that way. They get a >>fee based on the high bid. They don't really care whether the transaction >>is completed. Of course, the seller gets a credit for his fee in the case >>where the sale isn't completed, but eBay still gets the money. > >Here is the response I got from eBay this morning, and my question below >it. I considered this a lame side stepping answer and emailed back saying >so. > > > >Thank you for writing. > >The best single way to size up eBay members is by judging there feedback >for yourself. > >eBay has no control over private email and direct sales are not only not >sanctioned but are a violation of eBay rules and will draw sanctions >from eBay when proven. They are very dangerous. Especially if the seller >is not an eBay member in good standing. In fact these are not even "eBay >scams or frauds", they are not eBay at all! > >eBay is not a party to the actual transactions that take place between >members. eBay acts as a link between the buyer and seller. We just >provide the automated bidding system. We do not authenticate users, we >do not verify items, we do not guarantee that you will receive payment >or the item. However, we are extremely concerned about our community and >your safety within our community. To that end, we work with third >parties to offer you services to authenticate users, insure and escrow >your transactions. > >We hope this helps! :^) > > >Original message follows: >------------------------- > >How do I check on eBay scams or frauds I hear about on newsgroups or >mailing lists? Recently someone reported on a mailing list I follow that >people are contacting second bidders and pretending to be the seller, >requesting payment be sent to a PO Box, then skipping with the money. >How do I find out if this is true or hoax? > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue May 18 17:38:05 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518091148.00a97780@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990518173805.22d79a3c@intellistar.net> At 12:34 PM 5/18/99 -0400, Chris wrote all about his neat hauls!: >And my best find of all: a virtually mint, seemingly unused HP9000/300 >computer with 7958B hard drive (150 Mb IIRC) and 9144A 16-track tape drive. Ohhh! I'm envious as hell!!! > >So, does anybody have a very decent looking keyboard and HP-HIL k'bd cable >they're willing to sell to me? Keyboard model *I think* should be a 46020 >or 46021 or a 98203C. Those are all HP-HIL keyboards. They should all be interchangeable but may have some different keys. The 98203C is the same style and layout as the famous Nimetz Keyboard. It's mounted in a LARGE flat metal case. It's called Nimetz because it's so big that many people associated it with the aircraft carrier! The other two are MOL standard layouts with plastic cases. I have extra keyboards, mice, cables etc. Contact me off-line and tell me what you need. Joe From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 16:41:37 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > This is NOT a question of end user demand, but of middleman logistics. An > idea I have rolled around, that I think could be fairly successfull is the > $99 computer store. Other than all the details of a business, what I worry > about would be how to get sufficient supplies of older computers, and keep > costs low enough. This type of idea would be better suited as a non-profit. There is a very similar organization to what you are proposing here in Alameda county. They take donations of old computers, fix them up, test them, then sell complete systems running with Windows 95 in weekend sales for $100 - $250 a pop. They use that money to support the operation (paying volunteers, etc). The majority of computers are donated back to schools or other non-profits that need them. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue May 18 16:58:46 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull Message-ID: <02a701bea179$9a962b00$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> You wrote... >> I have an opportunity to acquire a Honeywell Bull mainframe, free of >> charge I am by no means well acquainted with the Honeywell line. But I was under the impression that a Honeywell DPS was never called a BULL, it was called a DPS. The only system with the Honeywell brand that was called a BULL was actually an OEM'ed RS6000 that Honeywell put the BULL label on. Can someone confirm or deny? Jay West From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue May 18 17:09:33 1999 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <02a701bea179$9a962b00$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <199905182207.RAA25474@trailingedge.com> On 18 May 99, at 16:58, Jay West wrote: > I am by no means well acquainted with the Honeywell line. But I was under > the impression that a Honeywell DPS was never called a BULL, it was called > a DPS. The only system with the Honeywell brand that was called a BULL was > actually an OEM'ed RS6000 that Honeywell put the BULL label on. > > Can someone confirm or deny? Don't know about that but I have a box which I picked up from a company I worked for a long time ago which was always called a Honeywell Bull. It wasn't an RS6000 but used an M68020. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue May 18 17:17:02 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: VMS hobbiest media In-Reply-To: <199905182207.RAA25474@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at May 18, 1999 05:09:33 PM Message-ID: <199905182217.QAA07855@calico.litterbox.com> Just a heads up to those running Vaxen. The 2.0 hobbiest media are available *now*. http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/media.html -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 18 17:28:05 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <199905182207.RAA25474@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at May 18, 99 05:09:33 pm Message-ID: <199905182228.PAA12199@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 403 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/62581a78/attachment.ksh From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue May 18 17:54:58 1999 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <199905182228.PAA12199@shell2.aracnet.com> References: <199905182207.RAA25474@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at May 18, 99 05:09:33 pm Message-ID: <199905182253.RAA25667@trailingedge.com> On 18 May 99, at 15:28, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > company I worked for a long time ago which was always called a > > Honeywell Bull. It wasn't an RS6000 but used an M68020. > > HUH? To the best of my knowledge no RS/6000 has ever used a M68020. > However, numerous systems from numerous manufactures have, Mac's and > Amiga's being a couple of the more popular. That's why I said "It WASN'T an RS6000". The first message said he thought all "Honeywell Bulls" were RS6000s. Mine is a M68020 based system not an RS6000. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From owad at caesarville.net Tue May 18 13:51:14 1999 From: owad at caesarville.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull Message-ID: <199905182255.PAA26403@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >I am by no means well acquainted with the Honeywell line. But I was under >the impression that a Honeywell DPS was never called a BULL, it was called a >DPS. The only system with the Honeywell brand that was called a BULL was >actually an OEM'ed RS6000 that Honeywell put the BULL label on. Hmm... I haven't seen the unit, just talked to the fellow on the phone. I asked him what kind of computer it was, he put the phone down to go look at it, came back, and said it was a "Honeywell Bull", also giving me the dimensions (4x3x2). The computer was used by a company that assembles line and bucket trucks. I believe they had a good number of remote terminals set up, and used the system to transfer specs and price sheets. Tom Owad From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 18 18:05:14 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <199905182253.RAA25667@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at May 18, 99 05:54:58 pm Message-ID: <199905182305.QAA13257@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 614 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/be3cb728/attachment.ksh From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue May 18 18:03:08 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull Message-ID: <001a01bea182$9995bbe0$0101a8c0@jay> Again, I don't have Honeywell knowledge, but didn't they create a division called Honeywell Bull Information Systems, and rebadged multiple systems under that name? My only knowledge of this comes from my General Automation days. When their Motorola based line was loosing market share to the Unix crowd, they introduced a server called a Honeywell Bull (blue/green nameplate I think)? That system I know for sure was an RS6000. Perhaps HBIS rebadged more than just the RS6000. Sounds like it anywho... Jay -----Original Message----- From: Tom Owad To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Honeywell Bull >>I am by no means well acquainted with the Honeywell line. But I was under >>the impression that a Honeywell DPS was never called a BULL, it was called a >>DPS. The only system with the Honeywell brand that was called a BULL was >>actually an OEM'ed RS6000 that Honeywell put the BULL label on. > >Hmm... I haven't seen the unit, just talked to the fellow on the phone. >I asked him what kind of computer it was, he put the phone down to go >look at it, came back, and said it was a "Honeywell Bull", also giving me >the dimensions (4x3x2). The computer was used by a company that >assembles line and bucket trucks. I believe they had a good number of >remote terminals set up, and used the system to transfer specs and price >sheets. > >Tom Owad > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 18 18:26:57 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <001a01bea182$9995bbe0$0101a8c0@jay> from "Jay West" at May 18, 99 06:03:08 pm Message-ID: <199905182326.QAA13775@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1045 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/0861beec/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 16:55:14 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 18, 99 07:53:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 597 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/7e735f69/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 16:56:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <199905182101.OAA12144@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at May 18, 99 04:57:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 457 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/01e67d19/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 16:58:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton In-Reply-To: <19990518201333.8176.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 18, 99 01:13:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 575 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/ecaeabc9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 17:01:55 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <19990518203950.3177.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 18, 99 01:39:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1396 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/76e87bb8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 17:30:44 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? In-Reply-To: <59523CAF2AA3D111A8AB00805FE67F2EFEE269@ewst03.exchange.ml.com> from "King, Paul" at May 18, 99 05:08:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 6400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990518/92005392/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Tue May 18 18:41:23 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:07 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed Message-ID: <199905182341.AA29032@world.std.com> <> 5) There is no inherent 'format' command in the ProFile controller logic <> To enable formatting capability you have to install a special chip <> (according to rumour: a Z-80 with a piggyback EPROM) into a vacant socke < You guys and gals are probably getting tired of my little GRiD updates, but here goes anyway... I am typing this message on the GRiDCase. So the modem works. 2400bps. I found Rob's GRiDBoard website, and from there found out that AST keeps the configuration files for a lot of old GRiDs on its website. I downloaded conf1520.exe from there. Now I have my doubts about this machine even being a GRiDCase 1520. Most of the configuration options don't work or are meaningless to this particular machine. Like the thing to set the backlighting on the display - my machine has a gas plasma display. And it seems to be telling me that my machine doesn't have a modem... so what the heck am I using right now? It did let me configure my expansion RAM from EMS to XMS... or was that the other way around? And it let me change my processor speed. But it wouldn't let me do anything with the hard disk and a whole bunch of other weird things. It's a '286 machine, magnesium alloy case, 1.44MB floppy, had a 20MB HD in it, has a 2400bps internal modem, standard PC ports, gas plasma display, two ROM sockets under a trapdoor above the keyboard... could this thing be anything other than a 1520? Note that is says "GRiDCASE 1500 Series" above the display. Now I suppose it's time to see if I can have the machine work *without* a hard drive installed. I just got a _very_ scary message about JVC drives seizing and taking HD controllers with them. (Thanks for the warning, Jason!) Of course, as the drive that was in the machine when I got it was seized up, the damage may already be done. And maybe that's why I'm still unable to access the HD. :( -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue May 18 19:01:55 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > the original IBM Personal Computer, introduced in 1981, with a 62.5 watt > > {\pedantic Wasn't it a 63.5W PSU} One of the first PCs that I got came from IBM with a black power supply with a white switch (1.2*S/H). Then they immediately switched to the silver colored one with the red switch. If I believe the Tech Ref and the sticker on the supply, then there was a slight change increasing the 5V power and decreasing the 12V. > > power supply, Type 1 or 2 motherboard, INTEL 8088 clocked at 4.77 MHz, four > > ROM sockets, five 8-bit expansion adapter slots, two full height diskette As long as we're being unnecessarily picky (-: FIVE ROMS, SIX ROM sockets! One for the BIOS, plus four for BASIC, plus an extra. Unconfirmed story: The IBM engineers were worried that MICROS~1 would fail to squeeze the BASIC into the 32K (32768 Bytes) that MICROS~1 had said would be needed for it, so they provided an extra ROM socket for overflow. The MICROS~1 programmers were a little offended that IBM hadn't trusted them on the accuracy of their estimate, so, when they came in a little under, they padded out the BASIC with a few incomplete commands to bring the total to an EXACT 32768. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com DogEars From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 19:13:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Apple ProFILE Help Needed In-Reply-To: <199905182341.AA29032@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at May 18, 99 07:41:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 957 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/afbcc5b6/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue May 18 19:18:56 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > Talking of Silent 700s, has anyone else come across the 'ASR' version? I > have one with an extra box on top with 2 digital cassette drives on the > front and a panel of switches and LEDs. Inside said box there's a little > cardcage with half a dozen cards packed with TTL in it. It surely looks like this: http://www.siconic.com/crap/ASR733-1.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/ASR733-2.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/ASR733-3.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/ASR733-4.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/ASR733-5.jpg > From the markings on the switches it appears you can type to cassette, > print out the text on a cassette, copy characters from one cassette to > the other (and I guess type extra ones from the keyboard), send text from > a cassette to the line, record characters from the line on a cassette, etc. Chuck McManis actually figured out how to work it and has his working almost 100%. Hopefully he'll chime in with some wisdom. > I've not got it working (yet), but it's on the 'to be hacked' pile... I've got a copy of the technical manual that I'll be happy to photocopy for you and send over. It'll cost a bit but I'll just put you down on my "owing favors" list. I've also got access to the operations manual and will be making myself a copy of that, so I'll get you a copy as well. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue May 18 19:27:31 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990518171808.03d08560@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 10:55 PM 5/18/99 +0100, Tony wrote: >Talking of Silent 700s, has anyone else come across the 'ASR' version? I >have one with an extra box on top with 2 digital cassette drives on the >front and a panel of switches and LEDs. Inside said box there's a little >cardcage with half a dozen cards packed with TTL in it. Yup, I've got one sitting in the office across the hall. >>From the markings on the switches it appears you can type to cassette, >print out the text on a cassette, copy characters from one cassette to >the other (and I guess type extra ones from the keyboard), send text from >a cassette to the line, record characters from the line on a cassette, etc. >I've not got it working (yet), but it's on the 'to be hacked' pile... The cassette pretty much simulates the paper tape of the old ASR-33 teletype. (If I'm a bit lucky I'll have it at VCF connected to the PDP-8) The write mode on the cassette is is either "continuous" or "record", if it is continuous the tape writes characters in blocks on 'n' characters, if it is in "record" mode it writes a block that ends with (carraige return). I'm trying to see if I can hack in the reader-run control from the M8655 (300 baud). If so it should be possible to copy my set of PDP-8 tapes to cassette and then load them from the terminal. (Weird but cool) --Chuck From max82 at surfree.com Tue May 18 18:27:23 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: >little under, they padded out the BASIC with a few incomplete commands to >bring the total to an EXACT 32768. What commands might these be? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Tue May 18 19:32:48 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: FS: Review copies of books about microprocessors and microcomputers. Message-ID: <199905190032.UAA07679@phantom.golden.net> > >>2. >>How to Troubleshoot and Repair Microcomputers, 1980, Reston, softcover >>with step-by-step procedures >>$2 (inside blank page removed from book) >> > >>14. >>6502 Assembly Language Programming, 1979, Osborne, softcover >>the classic >>$4 >> >>15. >>Z80 Assembly Language Programming, 1979, Osborne, softcover >>the other classic >>$4 > You got 15. Better something than nothing. Please send your address so I can calculate the shipping fee. Yours in good faith. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 18 19:35:03 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: thermal paper supplier? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518171808.03d08560@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at May 18, 99 05:27:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 839 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/ddf5d3e8/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Tue May 18 19:48:19 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Kaypro manuals available Message-ID: I am surprised and pleased. There was rather more demand than I anticipated. What's left is mostly for application software and is listed below in a revision of the list. I plan to post it - revised as necessary - to comp.os.cpm on Thursday. - don ========================== The KAYPRO manuals listed below are available free for the asking, first come first served, however, you must pay shipping costs. Unless otherwise requested, they will be sent via USPS at Book Rate. E-mail your requests, please. Qty Title 5 CALCSTAR USERS MANUAL 5 DATASTAR REFERENCE MANUAL 3 DATASTAR TRAINING GUIDE 5 REPORTSTAR USER REFERENCE MANUAL 3 REPORTSTAR TRAINING GUIDE 1 WORDSTAR TRAINING GUIDE 1 WORDSTAR PROFESSIONAL (Users Manual) 1 MAILMERGE REFERENCE GUIDE GONE SUPERTERM (Communications) GONE KAYPRO CP/M GONE KAYPRO II USERS GUIDE GONE KAYPRO USERS GUIDE GONE KAYPRO 10 USERS GUIDE 2 INTRODUCTION TO SOFTWARE 4 MICROPLAN GONE CBASIC REFERENCE MANUAL 3 MICROSOFT BASIC USERS GUIDE 2 MICROSOFT BASIC QUICK REFERENCE 3 SBASIC 3 MSDOS OPERATING SYSTEM USERS GUIDE 2 PROFITPLAN 4 THE WORD Plus (Spell Checker) 1 PERFECT CALC USERS GUIDE 1 WRITING WITH A WORD PROCESSOR by William Zinsser 1 WORD PROCESSING ON THE KAYPRO by Peter McWilliams 1 KAYPRO WORD PROCESSING PLAIN & SIMPLE by David Lenfest & William Houze ====================== From owad at caesarville.net Tue May 18 15:44:39 1999 From: owad at caesarville.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull Message-ID: <199905190048.RAA04123@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Of course Honeywell Bull also sold some odd-ball systems to go with their >Mainframes. My favorite being a "HoneyMac". I believe these all had the >original manufacturers name on them still though. What is the "HoneyMac"? Surely not a Macintosh...? Tom Owad From cfandt at netsync.net Tue May 18 20:20:03 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton In-Reply-To: <199905181851.OAA20498@hiway1.exit109.com> References: <4.1.19990518091148.00a97780@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990518203817.00ab2e50@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 02:51 PM 5/18/99 -0400, John Ruschmeyer said something like: >> And my best find of all: a virtually mint, seemingly unused HP9000/300 >> computer with 7958B hard drive (150 Mb IIRC) and 9144A 16-track tape drive. >> A label on the 98574 CPU module indicated it's been upgraded to a 375 which >> is just about the ultimate of the 300-series. A 68030 processor running at >> 50MHz and 16 Mb of RAM. Nice! >> >> My new 9000/375 system was built into a 19" rack enclosure which was in >> turn bolted into a fiberglas transit case about 3' tall, 2' wide by about >> 2.5' deep. It was part of a military surplus system. I did not get a chance >> to find the AN system designation on the rack or case, just that it weighed >> 97 pounds and required two persons to carry. > >US Army Maneuver Control System, Version 10. The box you have was box #2 >of what would have bene configured as a 3-box or 6-box set. Wow John! You startled me with knowing what the military system was which used my HP 9000/375! Apparently you've seen/worked on the MCS before. This is what is so doggone great about the bunch of folks on this list! Such a variety of knowledge about many things and willing to share it. I only hope that I've been of help myself to some of the folks here. > >Other boxes included one which held the monitor (and doubled as a desk), >the communications processor, and the powersupply. If you look, you should >find a tag from either Loral or Ford Aerospace, as they were the MCS version >10 contractor. Didn't study the transit case too much. No obvious ID tag seen or else I'd study it closely as I collect older military electronic gear. Nothing at all on the HP gear except for the rubber stamped numbers on the starboard side of the main system unit. > >>From the sounds of it, you have one a field upgraded processor, but not >the later disk drive. (Later revisions of MCS 10 outgrew the 150mb drive.) >AFAIR, it's actually still in use in some units. That's interesting. > >> Apparently it had been built and not used *ever*. Just stuck in a military >> warehouse probably as a result of a military contract which didn't go >> anywhere or as a result of the Cold War ceasing or something. I absolutely >> cannot see *any* dust on the leading edges of the fan blades so this system >> has maybe only an hour or two at most of operation :) SNs are from mid-89. >> There's a Federal Stock Number or system part number rubber stamped onto >> the right side of the computer box. A probably earlier FSN or contractor's >> PN has been blacked out with paint (about 3/8" x 1.5" strip) and the >> present number rubber stamped onto the case after the upgrade to the 375 >> model was done. A little ugly, but what the hey! It shows a bit about the >> original purpose of the machine. That's the only indication of any special >> use of it. The update was done in December '91 according to a date >> handwritten on the CPU board tag inside. > >Makes sense... MCS 10.3 was the fielded version at the time. (Version 11 >was well on its way to failure, but would suffer for another year or so >before being killed.) With the gear being so virgin looking, this set was probably indeed just stored away unused since it may have been procured close to when ver 11 was put into the field. > >> [...] Only thing I had to >> promise him was to email him with what I found on the disk. He's a UNI* >> system admin and had enough UNI* machines of his own. I'm surprised he >> hadn't seen an HP 9000 machine before but these 300's were obsolete some >> time ago and he indicated he was always an Intel-based UNI* user. > >Probably nothing on the HD as standard govt. policy is to wipe before >excessing. If it was a contractor system, then that might be different. > >AFAIR, MCS 10 ran on a stripped configuration of HP-UX 7.03 If it's stripped then I can simply load the 7.0 that I have on hand. No problem it seems :) > >> I've got a copy of HP-UX 7.0 on tape with the license, both still >> shrinkwrapped, and manual set that I've had for some time. Now I've got a >> machine to hang it upon! :) BTW, ver. 7.0 is near or at the end of HP-UX >> support for the 300's. Have BASIC-UX ver. 5.0 w/license and docs too! > >Good combo... 8.0 should also run fine, though you'd want more memory. Seems I read somewhere (on a ng or somebody's website) that 7.0 was the last officially supported HP-UX for the 300 series but whether a specific group of the 300's (320/330/340/etc.) was the subject of that statement I can't recall now. > >> The keyboard and monitor were some sort of rugged, militarized things built >> into an operator's station. The fellow who had it never got from the >> surplus dealer as it obviously didn't quite interest him and maybe he >> didn't realize what it was. If it's what I *think* I saw an hour or so >> earlier at a surplus dealer's space not far away it definitelly wasn't the >> normal HP keyboard as it was part of some other section of the system used >> as the operations console and was connected via AN/MS connectors and >> cables. Have absolutely no idea as to the function of the whole system. If >> there's something on the hard disk when it comes up it may give me a good >> clue. But I gotta get it lit up first. > >The normal connectors were brought out to the bulkheads where they were >converted to AN/MS connectors. The keyboard would have been a stock >HP/IL keboard, but might have had a hacked cable.. Yes, the bulkhead panel which was part of the 19" rack the owner wanted to keep had all the cables which connected to the system box (k'bd, video coax's, remote speaker, HPIB and High Speed HPIB (for the disk), parallel printer (I think), etc. They were soldered to the several AN/MS connectors mounted on the bulkhead panel which were cabled to the other boxes you spoke of above. Now I think for sure I did see those other MCS boxes for sale at another vendors' space a row or two over, probably where the fellow I bought the 9000 boxes from had gotten it. They didn't look cheap enough for me to buy as they were big and relatively modern and I figured the dealer would want a big buck for them. Apparently not as the MCS box with the computer cost only $50. Oh well. Besides, if I could buy them I did not have a truck out in the Salem Mall parking lot and they'd not fit onto the shuttle bus very well :( Anyway, I was very focused on looking for BC-191/BC-375 parts, DEC items, early radio parts, early TV items, tech manuals for a variety of things, Ethernet patch cables, AUI translators, and several other things so I didn't let my focus wander into those big MCS cases. So dang much to see, so little time to study :( > ><<>> > >P.S. the 3-box and 6-box configs were jokingly referred to as the >"refrigerator" and the "double-wide refridgerator". Thanks profusely for the input John! Very much appreciated. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From cfandt at netsync.net Tue May 18 20:35:46 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Translator was: Re: Soviet/Russian classic computers? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990518111927.0094f2a0@199.108.34.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990518213353.00b2c100@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 03:42 PM 5/18/99 -0400, Max Eskin said something like: >On Tue, 18 May 1999, Doug Coward wrote: >> Are there any suggestions for a better & free translator? > >Yes, me :) Great! But getting you transported to the site which one needs a translation could be sort of pricey depending upon distance :-) -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue May 18 22:07:13 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems Message-ID: <19990518.221525.197.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> I would. I collect rotating memories, and obscure interfaces thereto. It is a small sub-speciality of mine. :^) Jeff On Tue, 18 May 1999 08:03:09 -0700 Mike Ford writes: >>SMS was the maker of a number of 8X300-based FDC's. These were about >10x12" >>things with loads of TTL, normally bounted in a 17x18x15" (wxlxh) >cast > >Most of what you say really rings a bell in my aging core stack, >except >that several of the cards were absolutely much larger than 10x12". >Second >point is would anybody want these? > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue May 18 21:34:04 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? References: <199905171841.MAA01780@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <00bd01bea1a0$11c03100$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: Huw Davies To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Tuesday, 18 May 1999 10:45 Subject: Are IBM PCs classic? > Well I have a share in an original (1949) Minor low light with the 849cc > side valve engine. And no water pump. Sniff. My first ever car was a bright orange 1949 2 door Morris Minor. My father bought it for me for the not unreasonable (for 1972) price of $50. This was also my first experience with a manual gearbox, had to teach myself how to drive it. (I learned, and had done my test, in an automatic) I had to rebuild the brakes (totally shot, including the seals) myself before I was allowed to put it on the road. It had had fibreglass repairs done to remove the worst of the rust and he paid another $30 to have the box chassis in front remetalled where it had literally corroded away. Gave it to a young lady two years later when I bought my $35 1956 Morris Oxford, from a wrecking yard. (It had more class: - it had a heater.) Cheers Geoff Roberts VK5KDR Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia. Email: geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au ICQ #: 1970476 From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue May 18 22:43:28 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: FS: Review copies of books about microprocessors and microcomputers. In-Reply-To: References: <199905180428.AAA09859@phantom.golden.net> Message-ID: >>2. >>How to Troubleshoot and Repair Microcomputers, 1980, Reston, softcover >>with step-by-step procedures Stuff clipped. Darnit! I keep doing that! I keep sending private messages to the list. I know better and of course I know how to do things correctly. But I keep sending the messages while I'm talking to someone on the phone or getting interrupted. So I'm not paying attention and forget to put in the person's private address. Anyway, apologies to everyone on the list for my meaningless spew. Anthony Clifton From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue May 18 22:47:45 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs Message-ID: <19990519034745.13730.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > >... wouldn't turn down a PDP8/e mind you. > > > > > > Why the 8/e in particular? > > The 8/e is all TTL as well (or at least mine is)... I wasn't entirely clear. The 8/L's and 8/i's have very accessible interconnects as compared to the cluster of five OMNIBUS cards in the 8/e CPU. > and the only 'custom' > parts are a couple of programmed ROMs on the EAE cards. But the > maintenance manual gives enough info to re-create those ROMs if you have to. Yes. It's not the replaceability issue (not that I can burn bipolar PROMs) It's the getting inside the CPU issue. > > The appeal of the OMNIBUS machines is that it's easier to > > hang modern devices off of them. > > I've never tried that. My 8/e has a PC04 (converted PC05, actually), TU56 > and RX01 on it. The RX01 is a little too late for the period of the rest > of the machine, but it's useful... I didn't mean modern like IDE disks, though that's an idea. I meant modern for the PDP-8 in general (RL8A/RL01, RK8E/RK05 vs DF32 and RF08). Sorry I wasn't clearer; I was in a hurry this afternoon. -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From roblwill at usaor.net Wed May 19 01:47:13 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? Message-ID: <01bea1c3$6f954220$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> Does anyone know a source for a fairly cheap monitor for an Apple //c and a color monitor for a Mac ][? One other question: What was the RGB port on the //c used for? Was this for a high-resolution color monitor or what (other than the LCD panel)? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 18 19:27:27 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton In-Reply-To: <19990518201333.8176.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <199905190427.AAA21690@smtp.interlog.com> On 18 May 99 at 13:13, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I'm glad to live close enough to day-trip. Motel rooms in that part of > the state book up well in advance. Attendance in years past was many > thousands of people. I'm sure it's still thousands, but my impression is > not as many thousands as it used to be before the spring and summer Dayton > Computerfests at the same venue. *Those* are nice because all the tables > are indoors and people like us bring things to sell to other people like us. > (And this August, from what I hear, the Dayton Amiga club and Columbus Amiga > club (AmiCON) are planning on putting on something jointly). > > -ethan > Ethan could you send us a notice of the fest for our Events page ? We're trying to provide a forum for places that collectors should check out. The address is in my sig. or check out the page. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 18 19:27:28 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199905190427.AAA21693@smtp.interlog.com> On 18 May 99 at 9:35, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > > > >The yard here has over 100 early Mac's from the 128, 512, Plus, SE, Classic, > > >to Classic II starting at $5 for just the box to $20 for a complete unit. > > >And must of the thrifts here have them too. So it's not me tossing them I > > >just do not buy them. > > > > $5 or even giving them away I have no trouble with. Tossing them bugs me. > > Personally the only way I will accept a pre internal hard drive mac is if > > it is part of a lot, but once I have them I work at finding them homes. > > Let's face it, there are more things out there of one thing (Mac's for > instance) than can possibly be saved. Unless there is a person or group > of people who is willing and able to take those machines and do something > useful with them rather than having them sit in a garage, they may as well > not keep taking up space. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > That is of course the dillemma. It is also the reason that many different approaches to collecting is so invaluable. Enough disparate collectors ensure the less will be lost. And of course when they tire of a flagging fad it will be available. While I realise that the inflation of prices can be annoying it is a good sign. Multiple coollectors of Edith Piaf recordings for example means that less will be lost even tho the aggressive collector may complain about the price rise engendered by "no-nothing" Piaf collectors. ciao larry In case people wonder why I use "ciao" it's a Canadian reaction to the British Imperialist "cheers", used during drinks after executing "native" rebels, or a cricket match served by primitive colonials. You Yanks don't have the resentment left that us Canucks have, but you're working hard to replace the British in our resentments. And both my parents were born in the Excited States before !900. Sorry for the politics but Americans forget they are just one country not the world despite their footprint. lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 18 19:27:29 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199905190427.AAA21698@smtp.interlog.com> On 18 May 99 at 13:48, Mike Ford wrote: > >Let's face it, there are more things out there of one thing (Mac's for > >instance) than can possibly be saved. Unless there is a person or group > >of people who is willing and able to take those machines and do something > >useful with them rather than having them sit in a garage, they may as well > >not keep taking up space. > > There is a HUGE demand for cheap old computers, BUT only as working systems > with the training to get people started. I met a teacher yesterday that as > a hobby finds old macs and assembles them into complete systems (for him no > modem, but Mac and printer, essentially a word processor) and passes them > on to students at his cost. He does a dozen or more systems per year, which > is a fairly high percentage of his students. > > This is NOT a question of end user demand, but of middleman logistics. An > idea I have rolled around, that I think could be fairly successfull is the > $99 computer store. Other than all the details of a business, what I worry > about would be how to get sufficient supplies of older computers, and keep > costs low enough. > In the local Goodwill today I explained to a lady why the monitor she picked up which had RCA connectors might or might not work on the computer she had been given and suggested she find out what video connector was on her computer. She rejected the need for a graphic interface as she fervently stated "I don't need that picture shit" and all she wanted was word-processing capabilities, but hadn't a clue as to how to hook it up. She was also delighted when I told hert that she could also hook up to the local Freenet without charge and questioned me closely as to what "free" meant. I think she is a single Mom who is simply trying to get ahead based on her own determination and I WILL get her enabled. She offered to pay me to get her up and running and I'm sure that would come out of grocery money. The initiating point was that someone gave her a "computer" and that coupled with her bravery rejected the class-based computer literate concept. This was in Canada but I am sure it is manyfold throughout the world. And of course in many places in the world electricity is only available at the cost of the family food budget. The dynamo-powered radio is sweeping away the misinformation fed to most in the 3rd world and will affect all of us who's well-being depend on the misery of most of the worlds population. The intimidation based on poverty that many poor people feel regarding computers is even passed on to their kids despite attempts by middle class teachers to pass on enablement to them. But if you have trouble buying a TV you're not likely to consider a computer. That's for those ":others" and why would I even accept a "free" one if I couldn't use it for anything in my overstuffed appartment. Sorry for the rant, but this is something that we the" "elite" with a historical perspective" must consider, otherwise we are simply effete connesuiers of the effort to produce tasty hummingbird tongues. Did the guilt catch you yet ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 18 19:27:31 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199905190427.AAA21709@smtp.interlog.com> On 18 May 99 at 14:41, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > > > This is NOT a question of end user demand, but of middleman logistics. An > > idea I have rolled around, that I think could be fairly successfull is the > > $99 computer store. Other than all the details of a business, what I worry > > about would be how to get sufficient supplies of older computers, and keep > > costs low enough. > > This type of idea would be better suited as a non-profit. There is a very > similar organization to what you are proposing here in Alameda county. > They take donations of old computers, fix them up, test them, then sell > complete systems running with Windows 95 in weekend sales for $100 - $250 > a pop. They use that money to support the operation (paying volunteers, > etc). The majority of computers are donated back to schools or other > non-profits that need them. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 04/03/99] > $100 is a lot of money to some people. Do they accept and give away free XTs , 286's and 386s they reject. Seems like a nice out for middle-class people to provide jobs for themselves. Do you use Win 95 yourself ? California is easy, if you want soul you gotta be in New York. > ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 18 19:27:25 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518091148.00a97780@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <199905190428.AAA21783@smtp.interlog.com> On 18 May 99 at 12:34, Christian Fandt wrote: > Here's a bit of a report of what I found at the Hamvention. I was there on > Friday from about 09:15 to 17:30 except lunch for which we went off the > grounds and on Saturday from about 08:00 to 13:30. Therefore with my method > of checking every promising box and poking around under tables I saw about > 3/4 of the whole fleamarket. I was looking for quite a variety of things > -not just old computers. > > Stuff I dragged home were two DG Ones (model 2208A), two DG printers which > go with them (model 2230), one AC power supply and one printer cable all > for $15; VMEbus boards including one unopened Force Computers SYS68Y DRAM-2 > memory board ($5) and four Motorola CODEX boards, $15; an IOMEGA Ditto Easy > 3200 external tape drive (Travan 3) with cable and power supply, $25. > > And my best find of all: a virtually mint, seemingly unused HP9000/300 > computer with 7958B hard drive (150 Mb IIRC) and 9144A 16-track tape drive. > A label on the 98574 CPU module indicated it's been upgraded to a 375 which > is just about the ultimate of the 300-series. A 68030 processor running at > 50MHz and 16 Mb of RAM. Nice! > > I've been casually looking for one of the 300's for a couple of years. My > ex-colleague who's an engineering manager from my ex-company's German > parent company told me last week when he visited the house that an HP > 9000/332 system was promised to me and will be shipped to me from their > Chicago facility late this year. > > My new 9000/375 system was built into a 19" rack enclosure which was in > turn bolted into a fiberglas transit case about 3' tall, 2' wide by about > 2.5' deep. It was part of a military surplus system. I did not get a chance > to find the AN system designation on the rack or case, just that it weighed > 97 pounds and required two persons to carry. > > Apparently it had been built and not used *ever*. Just stuck in a military > warehouse probably as a result of a military contract which didn't go > anywhere or as a result of the Cold War ceasing or something. I absolutely > cannot see *any* dust on the leading edges of the fan blades so this system > has maybe only an hour or two at most of operation :) SNs are from mid-89. > There's a Federal Stock Number or system part number rubber stamped onto > the right side of the computer box. A probably earlier FSN or contractor's > PN has been blacked out with paint (about 3/8" x 1.5" strip) and the > present number rubber stamped onto the case after the upgrade to the 375 > model was done. A little ugly, but what the hey! It shows a bit about the > original purpose of the machine. That's the only indication of any special > use of it. The update was done in December '91 according to a date > handwritten on the CPU board tag inside. > > I was passing by the previous owner's space when I overheard one of the > guys asking "What is it?" as they were taking the cover off the 7958B box > to try and figure out just what *it* was. I looked and saw the main box was > a 300 system (Whoa!! Let's stop and look!), became interested and checked > it out. I offered an explanation as to what it was, what it was usually > used for, typical processors used in the 300's, etc. Apparently the > then-new owner who'd just dragged it to his space from a nearby surplus > dealer didn't see a use for it for himself and offered the HP 9000 items to > me and I paid him nearly all the remaining money I had to spend: $40 for > all three boxes. He kept the transit case and 19" rack which bolted inside > as he had a use for it back at home in Houston. He didn't recognize at > first when he bought the whole transit case (for $50) that those 3 HP boxes > which were clamped onto rack slide plates were actually a computer. He was > happy somebody got it who knew what it was and could use it and he was > happy to have the transit case. I love happiness :-) Only thing I had to > promise him was to email him with what I found on the disk. He's a UNI* > system admin and had enough UNI* machines of his own. I'm surprised he > hadn't seen an HP 9000 machine before but these 300's were obsolete some > time ago and he indicated he was always an Intel-based UNI* user. > > I've got a copy of HP-UX 7.0 on tape with the license, both still > shrinkwrapped, and manual set that I've had for some time. Now I've got a > machine to hang it upon! :) BTW, ver. 7.0 is near or at the end of HP-UX > support for the 300's. Have BASIC-UX ver. 5.0 w/license and docs too! > > The keyboard and monitor were some sort of rugged, militarized things built > into an operator's station. The fellow who had it never got from the > surplus dealer as it obviously didn't quite interest him and maybe he > didn't realize what it was. If it's what I *think* I saw an hour or so > earlier at a surplus dealer's space not far away it definitelly wasn't the > normal HP keyboard as it was part of some other section of the system used > as the operations console and was connected via AN/MS connectors and > cables. Have absolutely no idea as to the function of the whole system. If > there's something on the hard disk when it comes up it may give me a good > clue. But I gotta get it lit up first. > > So, does anybody have a very decent looking keyboard and HP-HIL k'bd cable > they're willing to sell to me? Keyboard model *I think* should be a 46020 > or 46021 or a 98203C. I don't know the exact differences as I have no > pictures or specs. but they are mentioned in the "Peripheral Installation > Guide for the HP 9000 Series 200/300", which I have had for some time, as > being used with the 300-series. I'll post a separate request for a k'brd > and other info in a separate msg. later today or tomorrow. Need feet for > bottom of the boxes too but probably large stick-on rubber feet should be okay. > > I've got two old non-HP fixed frequency monitors I'll drag out of the > garage and try after I get a k'bd. The video interface card is a 98547A > which is not mentioned in the Periph. Inst. Guide. > > I saw a few DEC items: A rather lonely RL02 standing amongst a bunch of > fairly new amateur gear; a VT320 and VT 420 with a few of DEC's serial > cables; a couple of AUI-to-BNC translator modules for $10 each (Too much? > Just right?) and little else that I could see. > > Bought a couple more Ethernet NICs for $10 new (Intel 8/16); 3.5-to-5.25" > floppy adaptors for $1 each; 25' CAT5 cables for $3 each; "The Hard Disk > Technical Guide", "The Modem Tech. Guide", and "The Network Tech. Guide" > all w/CDROMs, published by Micro House, for $5 each; misc. cables and bits. > Hard disks were even cheaper than I'd ever seen but had no extra bucks to > spend, dang it. > > Also saw a pallet full (4' x 4' x 5' high) of Sun SPARC LX boxen; a Grid > computer, don't know exact model as I don't know Grids, but I'd wager it > was early. No model # on bottom or back. It weighed a ton it seemed, > painted black. Guy wanted $30 but by then I was flat broke by then :( ; > lots of C64 and C128 machines and accessories; tons of PeeCee stuff of all > ages and condx; pallets full of printers and monitors; lots of IBM > MicroChannel machines and boards; several HP Vectras; boxes of network > stuff of varying conditions and types; boxes of shrinkwrapped software; > bunches of other stuff I can't recall at the moment. Lots and lots of > amateur radio gear of course. > > I wish I had more money to spend there dang it! > > Importantly, I did score a few really hard to find parts for the WWII > BC-191F transmitter I'm trying to restore plus a few military connectors > for some gear in the collection; also got a couple of test equipment > manuals for units I have in the collection. Still wish I had more $$$ so I > could get more old gear and parts! Dang. > > Saw a couple of antique radio collector friends from other distant parts of > the country; made contacts with a couple of folks who may have parts for > the BC-191 and the virtually identical BC-375 transmitters. Understand from > another email list (Greenkeys) that a couple of fellow teletype collectors > were there too. Not much TTY gear to be found though :( May have bumped > into one of you ClassicCmp folks but we wouldn't have known each other > visually. > > All-in-all a very good time. Free shuttle buses running frequently all day > every day between the several distant parking areas (we parked free at the > Salem Mall) and that made it very convenient to haul a heavy object or > several bag loads back to the car :) > > Something for everybody there. Rain held off on Fri and Sat was really > beautiful. I may go again someday as my uncle lives in nearby Xenia, OH and > I have basically free room and board :) Only 360 miles from home so I don't > have too much of an excuse not to go especially if after I find a decent > paying job and could have extra $$ to spend. > > Wonder what the attendance was this year? No motel rooms available within a > 75 mile or more radius. Columbus area was reported to be closest rooms. > > Incidentally, you locals may have noticed there's quite a different scene > at Mendelson's Surplus in the past year or so. We went there to pickup a > Hamvention ticket for myself and I was pleasantly surprised. New minor > league baseball stadium being built across the street, an audio store just > opened inside the main building, new parking lot in back of the church, a > new Mendelson's outlet store next door across the new parking lot. But it > apparently still has the good ol' 3rd floor full of all kinds of parts, > equipment and untold amounts of obscure goodies! :-) > > Yes indeed, next year :) > > Regards, Chris > -- -- > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa > Ahh Christian, you restore my enthusiasm for collecting. The reports till now were filled with no Decs nothing of interest except some tired 486s. And if the Daytona had nothing of interest for computer collectors why bother to go to Hamfests at all ? I'm delighted you found so many things available for those not looking for Altairs or Imsais or rare cores. I believe your primary interest has been radio but your scholastic and devoted approach to computers is a joy. Not to mention your approach to early mfg in your region. You are an inspiration. Keep on keeping on. Thank you larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 18 19:54:31 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: References: <199905180847.EAA02842@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 18, 99 04:46:46 am Message-ID: <199905190454.AAA24376@smtp.interlog.com> On 18 May 99 at 19:37, Tony Duell wrote: > > Well I'm a collector of the "disdained" and we are Legion. You can't have been > > looking around the I-net lately if you haven't noticed the burgeoning number of > > micro collectors. Mini and Main -frame collectors are a distinct minority. > > True enough. A lot of people want to collect what they remember using > ('Hey, I used a PET back in 1979, and I'd sure like to have one now'). > Rather fewer want the big iron. And very few want the obscure machines > that were very nice in their day, but expensive, so nobody bought them, > so nobody remembers them... > > Doesn't bother me at all. For one (selfish) reason, it means more minis > for people like me :-). But more seriously, it's good that different > people are collecting different machines - that way at least one of > everything will be preserved. > > > I collect "home" computers. Original IBM's including some "classic" PS/2s as > > well as Apples, Ataris, Commodores, and Tandy. WE don't want no "steenking" > > minis. I wouldn't turn down a PDP8/e mind you. > > Why the 8/e in particular? The PDP8 is a very elegant machine, so I can > understand wanting to own one (I have a couple...) but I can't see why > you'd pick that one model. It is the most common one, I guess... > > > Now possibly you mini drones don't consider that "collecting" but I am > > I do consider it 'collecting', don't worry. I guess I just prefer large > boards of TTL that I can understand to large ASICs that I can't.... > > -tony > > As I said I'm not from Texas, so BIG don't mean shit to me. The Dec PDP8/e attraction goes way back to my digital course when a friend gave me a DEC 8/e maintenance manual which outlined the CPU processes with the Fetches and responses and helped me understand how a computer works. A little like studying an unknown processor and following it's processes. The explanations were so clear and precise that I've always wanted to have the machine so I could follow its functioning. The book turned me onto the machine. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From donm at cts.com Tue May 18 23:58:58 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff Message-ID: About a week ago I was exclaiming my good fortune in being able to have my VAXStation 2000 recognize a plain-vanilla Maxtor XT-2190 as an RD54 and proceed to format it. My concern being that if it did not recognize it, I did not know where to find the data required. I have since found it on www.vaxarchive.com. My intent in formating the 2190 was to install it in my MicroVAX 2000 and have a sort of 'matched set'. I am a bit sadder and wiser now that I have discovered that the MicroVAX is missing a rather large daughter board that resides beneath the motherboard in the VAXStation, and apparently carries the HDC and SCSI controller hardware. This seems to leave using the MicroVAX as a satellite unit to the VAXStation as the only alternative. Tried this, and MicroVAX tried to boot from ESA0 while cabled to the VAXStation, but no-joy. Is the problem that of not having things set up for cluster operation? If so, how do I do that? Keep it rather basic, please. I am pretty ignorant about all this. - don From ddameron at earthlink.net Tue May 18 20:18:22 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: So CA rescue In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19990518062228.2e679612@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990518201822.22c72b9e@earthlink.net> Hi Mike and all, At 02:17 PM 5/18/99 -0700, you wrote: >>For anyone in So., Calif. with a truck, Barry's (Artesia blvd in Gardena) >>has a Tek 40xx graphics unit. outside in the front of his salvage yard. >>Cost =??, I guess cheap as he is moving. >>-Dave > >Where, what is Barry's? > >I have been out on Artesia, but that was for that Electronics and Computer >surplus city joint, and didn't notice anything else. Yes, I think they are the one and same. Barry is the guy with the white beard. Their interesting site is www.eio.com. -Dave From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 18 20:10:16 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Some finds Message-ID: <199905190510.BAA25523@smtp.interlog.com> Not to let the moment rewt, I found an IBM AT volume with the diagnostic disk. Also a pristine Apple ImageWriter ll printer to go with my llc and a vol of Toshiba Portable T1600 which according to Rax' law means one is coming my way. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From wrm at ccii.co.za Wed May 19 03:48:26 1999 From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: core... more Message-ID: <199905190848.KAA09393@ccii.co.za> Hi Chuck and all >Could somebody *please* scan this article in and post a URL to it? (I'll >host it if it doesn't have web space (and I can scan it too if someone has >the issue to loan or can make a good copy of it)) This just so happens to be one of the three BYTEs of that era that I own. They're water damaged but readable. http://ccii.dockside.co.za/~wrm/byte And that goes over a 33K analog leased line shared by 20 people, so be patient... :-) Wouter From svs at ropnet.ru Wed May 19 04:40:05 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <199905182101.OAA12144@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net>; from Tom Owad on Tue, May 18, 1999 at 04:57:51PM -0000 References: <199905182101.OAA12144@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <19990519134005.06305@firepower> G'day, Is HB's early Big Iron (IRIS series) still running (or sitting unused) somewhere? -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From jonas at coyote.org Wed May 19 05:25:05 1999 From: jonas at coyote.org (Jonas Oberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Don Maslin's message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 21:58:58 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <87pv3x8igu.fsf@poledra.coyote.org> > it, I did not know where to find the data required. I have since found > it on www.vaxarchive.com. I assume you mean www.vaxarchive.org :) > VAXStation as the only alternative. Tried this, and MicroVAX tried to > boot from ESA0 while cabled to the VAXStation, but no-joy. Is the I think we'd be able to answer your question better if we know more in detail HOW this fails. Any error messages on the consoles? You never say what OS you were trying to use, but I assume it's some version of VMS. You can login to the VAXstation as operator (or someone with equivelent bits) and run REPLY/ENABLE, that would, iirc, make the VAXstation log information to the console about clients requesting load images (and much more ofcourse). From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed May 19 06:18:58 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Tossing Message-ID: <80256776.003E8E92.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> The way to build a wall is to stack them not all the same way round. The most >> stable method is probably LRRLLRRLL..., but LRLRLR would probably work (L and R >> meaning Macs facing Left and Right respectively) > > LLRR wouldn't work. You'd have an unstable zigzag. LRLR is far more > optimal. LLRR definitely wouldn't work. But LRLR will still tend to stray from the vertical because the sloping tops all slope the same way. That is why I suggested LRRL. This zigzag reverses the sideways displacement that occurs in each pair of layers, thus rising vertically and being therefore more stable than LRLR. Philip. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed May 19 07:04:16 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff Message-ID: <990519080416.210000d7@trailing-edge.com> >This seems to leave using the MicroVAX as a satellite unit to the >VAXStation as the only alternative. Tried this, and MicroVAX tried to >boot from ESA0 while cabled to the VAXStation, but no-joy. Is the >problem that of not having things set up for cluster operation? Right. There are databases that have to be built on the node the satellites boot from, and the right software needs to be installed there in the first place. > If so, >how do I do that? If the VAXcluster software is installed, you log in as SYSTEM, type @CLUSTER_CONFIG, and answer a few simple questions. >Keep it rather basic, please. I am pretty ignorant about all this. It's pretty easy. CLUSTER_CONFIG is a very friendly program, prompting you along the way. You'll need to know the Ethernet address of each satellite and establish some DECNET numbering scheme for your satellites. The hardest part is thinking up six-character node names for each node :-). Running a VMSCluster is very easy - it's only slightly more difficult to administrate a cluster of several hundred nodes than one node. Compare this with running a few hundred Linux or Windows boxes, a task that takes an army of administrators. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From arfonrg at texas.net Wed May 19 07:58:36 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Yet another GRiDposting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990519075836.0092ce00@207.207.0.212> Doug, I just revived my GRiD 1530 (and it was a pain)... Tandy still sells parts for these (not many and pricey too!) I bought a new mother board (only to later find out that my old one just lacked memory) and a technical reference manual (what a waste of money). What are you trying to find out? Arfon At 07:59 PM 5/18/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >You guys and gals are probably getting tired of my little GRiD updates, >but here goes anyway... > >I am typing this message on the GRiDCase. So the modem works. 2400bps. > >I found Rob's GRiDBoard website, and from there found out that AST keeps >the configuration files for a lot of old GRiDs on its website. > >I downloaded conf1520.exe from there. > >Now I have my doubts about this machine even being a GRiDCase 1520. Most >of the configuration options don't work or are meaningless to this >particular machine. Like the thing to set the backlighting on the display >- my machine has a gas plasma display. And it seems to be telling me that >my machine doesn't have a modem... so what the heck am I using right now? > >It did let me configure my expansion RAM from EMS to XMS... or was that >the other way around? And it let me change my processor speed. But it >wouldn't let me do anything with the hard disk and a whole bunch of other >weird things. > >It's a '286 machine, magnesium alloy case, 1.44MB floppy, had a 20MB HD in >it, has a 2400bps internal modem, standard PC ports, gas plasma display, >two ROM sockets under a trapdoor above the keyboard... could this thing >be anything other than a 1520? > >Note that is says "GRiDCASE 1500 Series" above the display. > >Now I suppose it's time to see if I can have the machine work *without* a >hard drive installed. I just got a _very_ scary message about JVC drives >seizing and taking HD controllers with them. (Thanks for the warning, >Jason!) > >Of course, as the drive that was in the machine when I got it was seized >up, the damage may already be done. And maybe that's why I'm still unable >to access the HD. :( > >-- >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > > > ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From svs at ropnet.ru Wed May 19 04:28:09 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Soviet/Russian classic computers? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990518111927.0094f2a0@199.108.34.2>; from Doug Coward on Tue, May 18, 1999 at 11:58:47AM -0700 References: <4.1.19990517172447.009529d0@199.108.34.2> <4.1.19990517172447.009529d0@199.108.34.2> <19990518105859.29964@firepower> <4.1.19990518111927.0094f2a0@199.108.34.2> Message-ID: <19990519132809.02578@firepower> On Tue, May 18, 1999 at 11:58:47AM -0700, Doug Coward wrote: > > You'll need to know Russian (or have > >translation software handy) to read most of them. > > Are there any suggestions for a better & free translator? -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 19 10:05:56 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems In-Reply-To: <19990518.221525.197.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 1999 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > I would. I collect rotating memories, > and obscure interfaces thereto. > It is a small sub-speciality of mine. :^) Jeff, Also an interest but I tend to be more focused. I'm looking for DRUM memories of small physical size. I'm interested in getting one going and I'm limited in space and power I'm willing to commit as I want to have it run. If you run across anything that may be on the Northeast I'd be interested. Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 19 10:15:36 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull In-Reply-To: <199905190048.RAA04123@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at May 18, 99 08:44:39 pm Message-ID: <199905191515.IAA23735@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1674 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/3e453dcb/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 19 10:16:11 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <19990519034745.13730.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I wasn't entirely clear. The 8/L's and 8/i's have very accessible > interconnects as compared to the cluster of five OMNIBUS cards in > the 8/e CPU. 70% of the cpu is on the bus any way with omnibus, accessability of the cpu internals is trivial in 8e/f/m. > I didn't mean modern like IDE disks, though that's an idea. I meant > modern for the PDP-8 in general (RL8A/RL01, RK8E/RK05 vs DF32 and RF08). The omnibus machines are a real kick to interface it's a simple matter. It was part of the machines success as people could hang things on them with minimal difficulty. Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 19 10:20:05 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at May 18, 99 09:58:58 pm Message-ID: <199905191520.IAA23813@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 811 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/745b1247/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 19 10:23:12 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > and have a sort of 'matched set'. I am a bit sadder and wiser now that > I have discovered that the MicroVAX is missing a rather large daughter > board that resides beneath the motherboard in the VAXStation, and > apparently carries the HDC and SCSI controller hardware. ?????? the only difference between the MV2000 and the VS2000 is NOTHING! Both 90% of the hardware is all on one board. The common boards plugged into that card are the extended memory, a Network card and a Video extension to the (additional bit planes for color). The HDC and SCSI(for tapes opnly) is on the main board! look for the NCR 5380 and SMC 9224 40 pin chips. Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 19 10:23:58 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? In-Reply-To: <01bea1c3$6f954220$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> from "Jason" at May 18, 99 11:47:13 pm Message-ID: <199905191523.IAA23870@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 354 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/c6b67275/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed May 19 12:33:34 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: <80256775.004651A6.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <199905191534.RAA01521@horus.mch.sni.de> > > The way to build a wall is to stack them not all the same way round. The most > > stable method is probably LRRLLRRLL..., but LRLRLR would probably work (L and R > > meaning Macs facing Left and Right respectively) > LLRR wouldn't work. You'd have an unstable zigzag. LRLR is far more > optimal. Shure, LLRR is bad, but LRLR is also just rubbish - the tower will grow into one direction, and as soon as the wight crosses the outher linits of the first Mac, the tower will crumble. AFAIR did Philip suggest RLLRRLL (or more neat RLLRLRRL) ... one segment RLLR (or LRRL) is build up to have the top most level again parlell to the ground and direct above the 'base' Mac - RLLR or LRRL segments can be used as often as needed (or until the structur of the bottom most Mac cracks. Servus Hans (BTW: Sellam - I cant gurantee on Friday, since I had to cancel (or at least delay) the vacations) -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From marvin at rain.org Wed May 19 10:49:18 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Dayton References: Message-ID: <3742DD7E.3581BFC2@rain.org> I had a great time looking through the flea market area at Dayton. There was not a lot of stuff there that I was interested, and I found out why. David Hale, who was also at VCF last year, had gone though and cleaned out the area. He got some *really* great finds including the Heathkit EC-1. The only thing I saw there of any interest was a 1983 Nada (?) microprocessor training kit including manuals for $75. My price range was $25 or so, and his best was $50 so he still has it :). Things I saw but wasn't interested in include a Heathkit H-19, Kaypro II, Heathkit breadboard unit, a bunch of Commodore stuff, and a Z-100 with manuals. Good think I didn't go there only for the flea market! BTW, David had a really great idea; he bought a spot that served as a center of operations, and had a yellow sign on top of his van saying Antique Computers Wanted or somthing to that affect. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 19 11:22:26 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? In-Reply-To: <199905191523.IAA23870@shell2.aracnet.com> References: <01bea1c3$6f954220$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> Message-ID: <4.1.19990519092103.00abbdf0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 08:23 AM 5/19/99 -0700, Someone wrote: >> Does anyone know a source for a fairly cheap monitor for an Apple //c and a I've got a Zenith "green screen" that was popular with the Apple ][ that is available for postage and packing. Its composite video in and can do 80 column mode on 2/e's that have the 80 col card. --Chuck From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 19 11:27:13 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <80256776.003E8E92.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > LLRR definitely wouldn't work. But LRLR will still tend to stray from > the vertical because the sloping tops all slope the same way. That is > why I suggested LRRL. This zigzag reverses the sideways displacement > that occurs in each pair of layers, thus rising vertically and being > therefore more stable than LRLR. To flog a dead camel, and carry forward a pointless thread, I still don't see how LRRL is any superior to LRLR. LRRL would be noticeably crooked, and might not even stand. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From cfandt at netsync.net Wed May 19 11:30:08 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available Message-ID: <4.1.19990519122032.009ed7a0@206.231.8.2> Hi folks, I'm passing this on for a friend who is not a computer collector or subscriber to ClassicCmp. His long-serving Mac used in his realty office had to be retired because of some sort of video failure. He didn't want to trash it and asked me if I'd take it. I'm not into Apple at all as that would be Yet Another Interest which I would dig into thus spending all kinds of money and time which I have little of either. Some of you know already that I've got enough to handle now ;) So, I want to let you Apple polishers (or "Mac-adamia Nuts" ;-) have a chance at taking the system. The problem with the main box is probably simple to fix using parts from another dead box. He says there is just a spot on the screen about a quarter inch or so in size. The system seems to act normally otherwise, just that he can't see anything on the screen. Apparently to me, just the video sweep section on the CRT board failed. Please contact him directly at esr@netsync.net if interested in the system. Paul Liuzzo is his name. Here's the list of items with the understanding that I do not know if I've given you enough info as I don't do Mac: ** Macintosh Plus (and says 'Macintosh Plus 1MB' on the large label on the back of the case), model M0001A. Apparently runs System 6.0.2. ** Kingston cooling fan/power switching module. Fits on top of the box to provide additional cooling and acts as AC power control center. ** Keyboard, model M0110A ** Mouse, model M0100 ** External hard drive (he recalls 40mb), CMS Enhancements (the Computerland label for accessories they sold) model STACK/3 ** Apple Personal Modem, model A9M0304 ** Two Apple Imagewriter II's 1.) model A9M0320 bought w/system above 2.) model A9M0310 given to him a couple years ago and never used by him. It's been used by previous owner though. Software included: ** Mac Utilities, etc., for ver 6.0.2 ** Filemaker Pro ** Filemaker II ** Superspool for Imagewriter ** Semantic Antivirus for Mac ver 2 ** CMS SCSI Utility for Mac ver 5.3 ** more misc software ** A stack of documentation for most of the s/w listed above. He doesn't want much except to have a collector take the system, all in one lot. I imagine paying shipping costs plus maybe a couple extra bucks would be okay. Again, contact Paul Liuzzo directly at esr@netsync.net if interested in the system. Jamestown, NY 14701 is the shipping point. Thanks much! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From ss at allegro.com Wed May 19 11:39:49 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Stuff I found at Dayton In-Reply-To: <199905190428.AAA21783@smtp.interlog.com> References: <4.1.19990518091148.00a97780@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <199905191639.JAA15470@bart.allegro.com> Re: > > Here's a bit of a report of what I found at the Hamvention. I was there on ... > > Yes indeed, next year :) Just a reminder people: You DON'T have to quote the entire message when you reply! Thanks, Stan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 19 11:41:24 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990519122032.009ed7a0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: > ** Kingston cooling fan/power switching module. Fits on top of the box to > provide additional cooling and acts as AC power control center. Does that level the top enough for wall-making stacking? From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 19 11:43:00 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:08 2005 Subject: museums of misinformation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While taking a minute to follow a thread of links on the WWW I hit the ALayers site at SFU... PET PEAVE TIME:: the asstounding lack of infomation or worse yet outright errors. In the case that triggered this an ICS suitcase computer is said to use a NEC 8255 cpu! that's a parallel port chip and the CPU is 8080, further the board is the NEC TK80A design repackaged. I see this sort of error, cru mmy pictures (lowres, dark or not informational)all too often. If one is going to go to the effort of documenting a system or whatever accuracy is a good thing. That means all too often not getting it from an other inaccurate site! Why do archeologits revisit sites? So they can assure that their studies are not loaded with anothers errors or assumptions. So I ranted, Allison From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 19 11:50:43 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: THANKS (and mirror site!) Re: core... more In-Reply-To: <199905190848.KAA09393@ccii.co.za> Message-ID: <4.1.19990519094856.03d164e0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> THANKS Wouter! This is a wonderful article, I'm reading it now... I've taken the liberty of mirroring these pages on my web server (T1 speed) at http://www.mcmanis.com/~cmcmanis/core And put all of them together into a single zip file for easy downloading. --Chuck At 10:48 AM 5/19/99 +0200, Wouter de Waal wrote: >Hi Chuck and all > >>Could somebody *please* scan this article in and post a URL to it? (I'll >>host it if it doesn't have web space (and I can scan it too if someone has >>the issue to loan or can make a good copy of it)) > >This just so happens to be one of the three BYTEs of that era that I >own. They're water damaged but readable. > >http://ccii.dockside.co.za/~wrm/byte > >And that goes over a 33K analog leased line shared by 20 people, >so be patient... :-) > >Wouter > From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed May 19 11:41:59 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull Message-ID: <80256776.005C21A0.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> >Of course Honeywell Bull also sold some odd-ball systems to go with their >> >Mainframes. My favorite being a "HoneyMac". I believe these all had the >> >original manufacturers name on them still though. [...] > Before those they had some really funky IBM PC's, the only reason they were > preferable to the big read boxes they called terminals was because the > keyboards were better, and the screen was easier to read. I remember a system called "Micro System Executive", which was based on a design from Future Technology Systems, a company that Honeywell bought. I have an FTS-86 somewhere (probably mostly Honeywell with the amount of board swapping that went on) which I must get working... FTS sold this machine as "The non-compatible compatible". It was not IBM compatible. You could have 896K bytes of main memory, rather than 640. It ran Concurrent CPM, not (MS) DOS. And yet Lotus 123 would load straight of an IBM disk and draw graphs and things with no hassle... Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed May 19 11:46:30 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing Message-ID: <80256776.005C8B80.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > AFAIR did Philip suggest RLLRRLL (or more neat RLLRLRRL) ... RLLRLRRL? Nice! I like it. (Sam - if you think it's important, make some right angled trapezia from cardboard or even paper and arrange them on a flat surface with a line as the floor. You'll see what we mean.) Philip. From sethm at loomcom.com Wed May 19 11:53:35 1999 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: core... more In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, Seth wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > At 06:35 PM 5/14/99 +0000, it was written: > > >The previous mentioned article in Byte is "Coincident Current Ferrite Core > > >Memories" and is in the July, 1976 Issue. It is very helpful. > > > > Could somebody *please* scan this article in and post a URL to it? (I'll > > host it if it doesn't have web space (and I can scan it too if someone has > > the issue to loan or can make a good copy of it)) > > > > --Chuck I've found my copy, and scanned it! Check here: http://www.retronet.net/byte/ The files are fairly large, but you're warned what size they are before you click on them. Be gentle -- the server is a 486/33 running off my ADSL line :) But you should get at least 400kbps out of the line. -Seth -- "You know, if there's one thing more destructive | Seth J. Morabito than a hydrogen bomb, it's a hydrogen bomb strapped | sethm@loomcom.com to the back of a MANLY MAN!!!" [James "Kibo" Parry] | Perth ==> * From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed May 19 13:54:14 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: <80256776.003E8E92.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <199905191655.SAA07751@horus.mch.sni.de> > > LLRR definitely wouldn't work. But LRLR will still tend to stray from > > the vertical because the sloping tops all slope the same way. That is > > why I suggested LRRL. This zigzag reverses the sideways displacement > > that occurs in each pair of layers, thus rising vertically and being > > therefore more stable than LRLR. > To flog a dead camel, and carry forward a pointless thread, I still don't > see how LRRL is any superior to LRLR. LRRL would be noticeably crooked, > and might not even stand. Try to thing 3D not 2D - it is not only the level, but also the position. Giveme your faxnumber. Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed May 19 12:06:31 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 19, 99 09:27:13 am Message-ID: <199905191706.KAA20037@saul5.u.washington.edu> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 19 May 1999 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > LLRR definitely wouldn't work. But LRLR will still tend to stray from > > the vertical because the sloping tops all slope the same way. That is > > why I suggested LRRL. This zigzag reverses the sideways displacement > > that occurs in each pair of layers, thus rising vertically and being > > therefore more stable than LRLR. > > To flog a dead camel, and carry forward a pointless thread, I still don't > see how LRRL is any superior to LRLR. LRRL would be noticeably crooked, > and might not even stand. I wonder if there's a word that describes the noise camels (live ones) make? There probably is a word in Arabic. I get the impression that you two are using the same terms for different things. Are you both thinking of a single column of Macs, one Mac wide and any number tall? Or is someone perhaps thinking of a double-wide column? Maybe it's time for ASCII art. I'm not volunteering. -- Derek From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 19 12:23:30 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: OT: Web Inaccuracy Re: museums of misinformation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990519101653.03d36930@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 12:43 PM 5/19/99 -0400, Allison ranted: >I see this sort of error, cru mmy pictures (lowres, dark or not >informational)all too often. There is probably a Phd thesis in this statement. In fact much of the data on the web supplied by 3rd parties is either misleading, inaccurate, or simply wrong. Its rampant in the 3D graphics sites because students of 3D graphics evolve: 1) I'm clueless so I read stuff and search the web. 2) I write up a web site which documents my journey and is full of my own misunderstandings. 3) I learn the truth but I'm so busy I don't have time to go back and update the web pages. The result, a lot of stuff sits around that is wrong. Then this is counterbalanced by another phenomena which has been documented[1] but isn't understood. Ask a large enough crowd of people _any_ question and collect all the answers from all of them and the mean will be very close to the correct answer _even if no one in the crowd has any relevant experience_! So the web also has this going for it. --Chuck [1] - This was reported widely in the press about 12 years ago but given the fogginess of age the specific citation fails to surface. I believe the paper was titled, "The amazing accuracy of crowds" or thereabouts. From mark_k at iname.com Wed May 19 12:37:33 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Which backup program is this? Message-ID: Hi, Some time ago I posted about an old Sony 650MB 5.25" MO drive that I acquired. I have now cleaned all the disks, and it seems to be working fine. Anyway, most of the disks that came with the drive contain old backups. I'm not sure which backup program was used to create the backups. I would like to find out, because hopefully then I can snoop through them more easily than having to use a disk editor. There seems to be various source code and other things on there. In the hope that someone here can point me in the right direction, here is some brief info about the backups. The backup program probably ran under OS/2. Sectors 0 to 3 inclusive contain: "MDIELS4" in ASCII 25 zero bytes a date in ASCII, e.g. "Tue Jan 12 08:48:26 1993" 0x0a, 0x00 "mondayb" in ASCII (this may be some backup ID assigned by the operator) the remainder of sectors 0-3 are all zero bytes Sector 4 begins with "MDIVOLID" in ASCII. The next significant thing is at start of sector 256: 0xEB, 0x3C, 0x90 "MDI 4.0" in ASCII. Any ideas? -- Mark From mark_k at iname.com Wed May 19 13:28:14 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Amiga A1020 5.25" floppy drive (was Re: Atari modem) Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 13 May 1999 Doug Spence wrote: > >> As for disk transfers, I can do that with my handy-dandy A1020 drive > >> on my Amiga. It reads and writes several Atari 8-bit formats just > >> fine, including 810 (SS/SD) and XF551 (DS/DD?). > > > > Hmm have to check that out. > > Yes, if your Amiga's 5.25" floppy drive is connected to the Amiga's > floppy controller, you should be able to do the same thing. > > The program for doing this is on aminet:misc/emu/551conv.lha Talking of the Amiga 1020 drive... I would like to get hold of one of these. Am I correct in thinking that they were not sold in the UK (where I live)? If I can't find an A1020 (or compatible replacement, if any were made), I may try and rig up my own drive. To this end, can some kind person who owns an A1020 open it up, and tell me what type/model the drive mechanism is, and also describe any interface PCB that's inside? -- Mark From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed May 19 12:41:11 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Amiga A1020 5.25" floppy drive (was Re: Atari modem) In-Reply-To: from "Mark" at May 19, 99 06:28:14 pm Message-ID: <199905191741.KAA12958@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 597 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/673f244d/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 19 12:45:38 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <80256776.005C8B80.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > AFAIR did Philip suggest RLLRRLL (or more neat RLLRLRRL) ... > > RLLRLRRL? Nice! I like it. > > (Sam - if you think it's important, make some right angled trapezia from > cardboard or even paper and arrange them on a flat surface with a line as the > floor. You'll see what we mean.) Ok, I used the Force to visualize this and I now see what you mean. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed May 19 13:10:06 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Paging William Donzelli Message-ID: <199905191810.OAA08491@platy.cs.unc.edu> Has anybody out there had recent contact with William Donzelli? I've got two e-mail addresses for him, and both bounce. And it looks like he hasn't posted anything to classiccmp for nearly a month... Bill. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 19 13:23:22 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems In-Reply-To: <19990518.221525.197.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: >I would. I collect rotating memories, >and obscure interfaces thereto. >It is a small sub-speciality of mine. :^) > >Jeff > >On Tue, 18 May 1999 08:03:09 -0700 Mike Ford >writes: >>>SMS was the maker of a number of 8X300-based FDC's. These were about >>10x12" >>>things with loads of TTL, normally bounted in a 17x18x15" (wxlxh) I looked at a couple of these on Tuesday, and some do have the 8x300 chip, but I didn't notice it on all of them, and a couple were labeled model 5001 (with a couple letters in front like FW or maybe FDC). The larger board though had NO model number on it, the space was blank. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed May 19 13:29:23 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Amiga A1020 5.25" floppy drive (was Re: Atari modem) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990519132923.00fdc7e0@vpwisfirewall> At 06:28 PM 5/19/99 +0000, Mark wrote: >If I can't find an A1020 (or compatible replacement, if any were made), I may >try and rig up my own drive. You should be able to find instructions somewhere on the net for making the conversion cable necessary to convert a standard PC 5 1/4 drive for use on an Amiga. I remember articles to this effect ten years ago or so, as the Amiga Transformer PC emulator was popular. At 10:41 AM 5/19/99 -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >What about hooking up the 1541/1571 drives to an Amiga? Has anyone done this? 1541s are easy, again it's a matter of a cable. Somewhere in my boxes of junk I have commercial adapters that did this, for use in some kind of cross-platform disk reader. These days, the emulator scene is so intense, they've found new ways to do it. - John From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed May 19 15:47:24 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: <80256776.005C8B80.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <199905191848.UAA12407@horus.mch.sni.de> > > > AFAIR did Philip suggest RLLRRLL (or more neat RLLRLRRL) ... > > RLLRLRRL? Nice! I like it. > > (Sam - if you think it's important, make some right angled trapezia from > > cardboard or even paper and arrange them on a flat surface with a line as the > > floor. You'll see what we mean.) > Ok, I used the Force to visualize this and I now see what you mean. (Must have been a massive impression - maybe a camel ? :) May the Shwarz be with you. Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed May 19 13:57:49 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: plated-wire memory Message-ID: <199905191857.OAA08658@platy.cs.unc.edu> How similar is plated-wire memory to core? Does it have the same wire-matrix organization, but is dunked into some magnetic gorp rather than having little torii strung on? Bill. From gregorym at cadvision.com Wed May 19 14:11:20 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Amiga A1020 5.25" floppy drive (was Re: Atari modem) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990519131119.006c7e98@cadvision.com> It can be done, but I don't remember how. A lot of my friends transitted from C-64s to Amigas, and at least one of them had hardware that let him connect the 1541 directly to his Amiga to do file transfers. I don't remember if it was just a cable and some software, or if there was a hardware interface involved. A quick post to comp.sys.amiga.hardware should find someone who remembers. Regards, Mark. At 10:41 AM 5/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >::If I can't find an A1020 (or compatible replacement, if any were made), I may >::try and rig up my own drive. > >What about hooking up the 1541/1571 drives to an Amiga? Has anyone done this? > >-- >-------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- >Cameron Kaiser Database Programmer/Administrative Computing >Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 849 2581 >ckaiser@ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 849 2539 >-- Ah, the insight of hindsight. -- Thurston N. Davis ------------------------- > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 12:58:21 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <199905190454.AAA24376@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 19, 99 00:54:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1081 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/b2e06f22/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 13:06:11 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <19990519034745.13730.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 18, 99 08:47:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1381 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/859d7ae4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 13:32:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990519122032.009ed7a0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 19, 99 12:30:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1649 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/d09734ff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 13:35:02 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <80256776.005C8B80.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@pgen.com" at May 19, 99 05:46:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/93b10941/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 19 14:21:17 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <80256776.005C8B80.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: > > AFAIR did Philip suggest RLLRRLL (or more neat RLLRLRRL) ... > RLLRLRRL? Nice! I like it. Does that represent the arrangement of the bottom row? Or does that represent the sequence of a column? If we use L,R, F, B to mean Left sider, right side, front and back, and use lower case to represent upside down ones of the same, then a small wall could be built such as (8 wide, 5 high, 1 thick): RFLFBRFL lblfblbl LFLBFLFL rbrbfrbr RFRFBLFL 'course if you lay them on their sides, then you can just do an ordinary "running jack" brickwork pattern. Will the multi-screen software handle machines on their sides? Considering California's seismic conditions, building codes, etc., you might have to drill them for some rebar. From roblwill at usaor.net Wed May 19 17:10:23 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? Message-ID: <01bea244$6423dba0$7e8ea6d1@the-general> That's how I have mine. 80-column is barely readable. The local thrift stores don't accept computer equipment unless it's a complete, working system, and they don't part them out :( ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 8:29 AM Subject: Re: Apple Monitors ?? >> Does anyone know a source for a fairly cheap monitor for an Apple //c and a > >It's called an old TV (I've hooked mine up through my nice new TV and VCR). >I've not hit any Goodwill's lately, but last I checked it was still fairly >easy to get Apple ][ monitors there, although I seem to normally run >across Monitor ///'s (they will work). > > Zane > > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed May 19 11:21:55 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems Message-ID: <19990519.142714.92.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 19 May 1999 11:05:56 -0400 (EDT) allisonp@world.std.com writes: > > On Tue, 18 May 1999 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > > I would. I collect rotating memories, > > and obscure interfaces thereto. > > It is a small sub-speciality of mine. :^) > > Jeff, > > Also an interest but I tend to be more focused. I'm looking for > DRUM > memories of small physical size. I'm interested in getting one > going > and I'm limited in space and power I'm willing to commit as I want > to have > it run. > > If you run across anything that may be on the Northeast I'd be > interested. > > Allison > Sad thing is, I wouldn't know a drum memory if it fell on me. :^) I imagine they were made by the 'heavies': CDC, GE, IBM, Burroughs, etc. I recall seeing some made by *Hughes* for sale in a Meshna catalog, several eons ago. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 19 13:36:03 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? In-Reply-To: <01bea1c3$6f954220$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> Message-ID: >Does anyone know a source for a fairly cheap monitor for an Apple //c and a >color monitor for a Mac ][? The IIc will use any standard NTSC compatible video monitor, which includes half the TV sets made in the last 20 years. With an adapter the Mac II (really the video card you put in a Mac II since it doesn't have onboard video) can use most any cheap PC monitor, or for the really cheap it can output NTSC in greyscale and use the same monitor as the IIc would. The RGB outputs on the IIc and IIgs have me confused, so I leave that to others. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 19 13:48:34 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Responding to sig line type remarks In-Reply-To: <199905190427.AAA21693@smtp.interlog.com> References: Message-ID: > In case people wonder why I use "ciao" it's a Canadian reaction to the >British Imperialist "cheers", used during drinks after executing "native" >rebels, or a cricket match served by primitive colonials. You Yanks don't >have the resentment left that us Canucks have, but you're working hard to >replace the British in our resentments. And both my parents were born in the >Excited States before !900. Sorry for the politics but Americans forget they >are just one country not the world despite their footprint. >lwalker@interlog.com I invented saying "Cheers" at the end of my emails about 8 years ago and it just caught on, sorry. I never use it after excuting a native rebel. I agree this list is no place for politics, besides in a few years when Canadians officially become North Americans the issue will be moot. BTW I have nothing against Canadian's, and frequently at auctions even bid on the Canadian lots (100A, 233A, etc.). From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 19 13:54:11 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <199905190427.AAA21709@smtp.interlog.com> References: Message-ID: > $100 is a lot of money to some people. Do they accept and give away free >XTs , 286's and 386s they reject. Seems like a nice out for middle-class >people to provide jobs for themselves. Do you use Win 95 yourself ? > California is easy, if you want soul you gotta be in New York. I have mixed agreement, many people can't spend a $100 and plenty of usefull computers should sell for more like $50 in complete systems even, but I think in general its a mistake to give anything away. People don't value things they get for free. I also agree, NY and CA are different. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 19 14:01:19 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Some finds In-Reply-To: <199905190510.BAA25523@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: >Also a pristine Apple ImageWriter ll printer to go with my llc and a vol of Something to check for on the Imagewriter II printers is the localtalk option board. I just picked up 4 Imagewriter II's and 2 so far have the boards, which triples the value of the printer. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 19 14:33:19 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: <80256776.003E8E92.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: >On Wed, 19 May 1999 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > >> LLRR definitely wouldn't work. But LRLR will still tend to stray from >> the vertical because the sloping tops all slope the same way. That is >> why I suggested LRRL. This zigzag reverses the sideways displacement >> that occurs in each pair of layers, thus rising vertically and being >> therefore more stable than LRLR. > >To flog a dead camel, and carry forward a pointless thread, I still don't >see how LRRL is any superior to LRLR. LRRL would be noticeably crooked, >and might not even stand. This is really a moot point as the mac plus won't support that much on top of it, without even considering the cooling issues. Just build some darn shelves. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 19 14:36:36 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990519122032.009ed7a0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: >> ** Kingston cooling fan/power switching module. Fits on top of the box to >> provide additional cooling and acts as AC power control center. > >Does that level the top enough for wall-making stacking? No, it makes a narrow bump in the middle of the top that makes it impossible to stack. From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed May 19 14:41:02 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:09 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <199905191655.SAA07751@horus.mch.sni.de> References: Message-ID: All this mental activity shouldn't go to waste. Why not pick up a few dozen of those old no good compact macs and have a stacking contest at VCF? From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 19 14:49:21 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > All this mental activity shouldn't go to waste. Why not pick up a few dozen > of those old no good compact macs and have a stacking contest at VCF? Due to liability issues, you'd have to remove the CRTs, and maybe put down some gym mats. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed May 19 16:54:10 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: <199905191655.SAA07751@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199905191955.VAA14620@horus.mch.sni.de> > All this mental activity shouldn't go to waste. Why not pick up a few dozen > of those old no good compact macs and have a stacking contest at VCF? Great idea - 3m are to be toped. Sam, your Job. Anyway, I guess an Appletalk installation will cost more than these Macs used :) Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed May 19 15:03:35 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs Message-ID: <19990519200335.12771.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > {\gloating I have a set of extender boards, which means that I can > trivially probe points in the 8/e CPU...} I have a couple of extender boards; not enough to do more than one or two OMNIBUS modules at a time. At least I have a couple of dual-height boards for the FLIP-CHIP boxes, too. > Anyway, even without extenders it's not too bad. Remember that you can > start without the EAE cards. But I _always_ start without the EAE. Never had one to play with. :-( > That means the CPU is one single card (M8330 timing) and a pair of cards >(M8300 and M8310) strapped together. They can go _anywhere_ in the omnibus, I hadn't really thought of that. My box is not so crowded that I can't make the extra room. It's a CPU, two 4K stacks, a SLU and a TD8E (and sometimes an RX8E). This is with two backplanes! I can only imagine that somewhere, someone got some goodies. > RIght. The RL8A won't go in an 8/e box, although electrically it should > work. It should (never tried), but for short-term use, a quad extender should do the trick. > The RK8E does, of course.... Never had one of those either. I have a 16-sector F pack that I got in 1984 and have not had the equipment to read. I'd love to know what's on it. -ethan _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 19 15:13:02 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: PDP-8 perhipherals ( was Re: Collecting PCs ) In-Reply-To: References: <19990519034745.13730.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990519131111.00ad0d00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 07:06 PM 5/19/99 +0100, Tony wrote: >I beleive it's been tried. The Omnibus is very easy to interface things to... In another forum it had been suggested that one could trivially emulate an RK05 in FLASH ROM these days. A simple OMNIBUS board that had a single chip CPU to handle the data interface and address the ROMs, then 8MB of flash emulating a string of RK05s --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 19 15:07:07 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems Message-ID: <004e01bea233$2c7eeca0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Regardless of the physical size, (maybe 13x15") if they are FT400 or FT300 models, then I may have useful information regarding their use. These models are FDC-only with a very easy programming interface. Back when I used a 1 MHz 6502 for much of the work, I used one of these and was probably the only one around with double-density capability as a result. The interface was dirt simple, yet could keep up with any processor of the time. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp@world.std.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Scientific Micro Systems > >On Tue, 18 May 1999 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > >> I would. I collect rotating memories, >> and obscure interfaces thereto. >> It is a small sub-speciality of mine. :^) > >Jeff, > >Also an interest but I tend to be more focused. I'm looking for DRUM >memories of small physical size. I'm interested in getting one going >and I'm limited in space and power I'm willing to commit as I want to have >it run. > >If you run across anything that may be on the Northeast I'd be interested. > >Allison > From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 19 15:33:22 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems In-Reply-To: <19990519.142714.92.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: > Sad thing is, I wouldn't know a drum memory if it fell on me. :^) > I imagine they were made by the 'heavies': CDC, GE, IBM, Burroughs, > etc. There were a lot of little guys doing them for the heavies. Many of the old desktop/deskside manicnes from the 60s had them. later in the 60s and early 70s they were used with one head pertrack as swapping drums for bigger machines. > I recall seeing some made by *Hughes* for sale in a Meshna catalog, > several eons ago. Yep, remember that. Check any old 76/77 byte and you may see adds for them. Allison From owad at caesarville.net Wed May 19 12:11:46 1999 From: owad at caesarville.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? Message-ID: <199905192115.OAA01997@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >One other question: What was the RGB port on the //c used for? Was this >for a high-resolution color monitor or what (other than the LCD panel)? Actually, I don't believe its an RGB port. According to the manual, the little icon above the port represents "Color TV". The port is used to connect an RF modulator. I recall reading that the only way to get RGB monitors to work with a IIc is via a composite-to-RGB adapter, which had not yet shipped by the time the book was published. While we're on the subject of video for the Apple IIc, does anybody know of any inexpensive composite LCDs that'll work the IIc? (Note that "inexpensive" rules out Apple's display.) Tom Owad From cfandt at netsync.net Wed May 19 16:32:05 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990519122032.009ed7a0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990519173026.00b13820@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:41 AM 5/19/99 -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) said something like: >> ** Kingston cooling fan/power switching module. Fits on top of the box to >> provide additional cooling and acts as AC power control center. > >Does that level the top enough for wall-making stacking? Nah, seems to be the same thickness across its length. Too narrow anyway. Sorry ;) --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Wed May 19 16:59:39 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: FS: Review copies of books about microprocessors and microcomputers. Message-ID: <199905192159.RAA22978@golden.net> OK, the names are: >19. - David Heiserman >Programming in BASIC for the IBM Personal Computer, >1984, Prentice-Hall, hardcover >$4 > >20. - George Markowsky >A Comprehensive Guide to the IBM PC, 1984, Prentice-Hall, softcover >really comprehensive >$5 > >21. - Louis Nashelsky & Rober Boylestad >IBM PC/XT BASIC Programming, 1984, Prentice-Hall, softcover >cute book with nice photographs >$2 > >22. - David Bradley >Assembly Language Programming for the IBM PC, 1984, Prentice-Hall, hardcover >an exceptional intro to assembly language programming for beginners >$5 > >23. - Seamus Dunn & Valerie Morgan >The Apple PC for Beginners, 1982, Prentice-Hall, hardcover >a basic book with an outstanding cover - a must for Apple collectors >$4 > >24. - Vincent Kassab >Apple IIe BASIC programming with Technical Applications, >1985, Prentice-Hall, softcover >$2 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 16:41:43 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 19, 99 11:36:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/67b56d10/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 16:52:18 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <19990519200335.12771.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at May 19, 99 01:03:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1951 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990519/cec1a5c7/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at netcom.com Wed May 19 18:49:23 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: SoCal TRW Swap 29th Message-ID: The monthly Southern California TRW Ham Radio and Electronics Swap Meet is being held this month (May) on Saturday the 29th, from 0730 hours to 1130 hours local time, at the TRW facility in El Segundo. Take the san Diego (405) freeway, exit Rosecrans, go West about 1 mile to Aviation (under the Metrolink bridge), turn left (south) on Aviation and proceed 1/2 mile south. The TRW facility will be on your right, and the Meet is held in the southernmost parking lots, bordering on Marine avenue to the south. Find a place to park and come join Marvin and myself, although I will certainly have gotten all the choice goodies first, (unless Marvin beats me to them). I am in spaces J21 and J23 and any classicmpers who will be in the area are cordially invited to join us. I have space available for anyone who might wish to unload some ju^H^H^H^H vintage items on the swapmeet attendees. There will be the usual after meet Brunch-n-Brag, at about 12:30 at a restaurant local to the swapmeet; all are invited. I am considering another collection Open House at my place, but that depends on feedback. E-mail me privately for further information/data/whatever. Cheers John From max82 at surfree.com Wed May 19 17:50:04 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >The other half being all the PAL + SECAM + B/W + sets with no composite >inputs, right? Well, aren't there demodulators to convert a composite signal to the other kind? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From bmahoney at sprint.ca Wed May 19 21:12:43 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Tossing References: <199905191655.SAA07751@horus.mch.sni.de> <199905191955.VAA14620@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <37436F9B.C686A91F@sprint.ca> Wouldn't it be better if we used XTs for the walls and Macs for the merlons? The XTs would give a much thicker wall, flatter surface with which to build on and, depending on whether we remove the drives or not, more hidey holes for snacks and things. Of course there would be no Windows, since they are XTs but almost certainly there would be Gates. Just a thought, folks. Don't want to throw you off. Brian -- http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From donm at cts.com Wed May 19 19:15:24 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > and have a sort of 'matched set'. I am a bit sadder and wiser now that > > I have discovered that the MicroVAX is missing a rather large daughter > > board that resides beneath the motherboard in the VAXStation, and > > apparently carries the HDC and SCSI controller hardware. > > ?????? the only difference between the MV2000 and the VS2000 is NOTHING! > Both 90% of the hardware is all on one board. The common boards > plugged into that card are the extended memory, a Network card and > a Video extension to the (additional bit planes for color). OK, the MicroVAX has the main board which is mounted solder side up. It also has the extended memory card, a Network(?) card that connects via two 40 conductor ribbon cables. What is missing is the large - almost main board size - board that is situated component side up beneath the main board, and connects to it via two 40 pin headers (that run parallel to the 50-pin and 60-pin connectors for tape SCSI and hard and floppy drives respectively) on the main board. Is that the Video Extension board? > The HDC and SCSI(for tapes opnly) is on the main board! look for the NCR > 5380 and SMC 9224 40 pin chips. Yep, I see them. Does the position of the Berg jumper about two inches from the rear of the BNC connector affect the functioning of the storage devices? - don > Allison > > From elvey at hal.com Wed May 19 19:23:13 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905200023.RAA23107@civic.hal.com> Mike Ford wrote: > People don't > value things they get for free. Hi I have a lot of old data books that I guard with a gun. You could steal my garden rake and only get a look of disgust from me. ( Rake = $1, books = $0 ) Dwight From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 19 19:26:03 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > All this mental activity shouldn't go to waste. Why not pick up a few dozen > > of those old no good compact macs and have a stacking contest at VCF? > > Due to liability issues, you'd have to remove the CRTs, and maybe put down > some gym mats. I'd get around the liability issue by making the point be to kill an audience member. Anyone attending the event would sign a waiver, and the added suspense of knowing that one person in the crowd will die would cause a media sensation! I'll be rich! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From donm at cts.com Wed May 19 19:28:31 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: <87pv3x8igu.fsf@poledra.coyote.org> Message-ID: On 19 May 1999, Jonas Oberg wrote: > > it, I did not know where to find the data required. I have since found > > it on www.vaxarchive.com. > > I assume you mean www.vaxarchive.org :) Yes, that is what I meant. > > VAXStation as the only alternative. Tried this, and MicroVAX tried to > > boot from ESA0 while cabled to the VAXStation, but no-joy. Is the > > I think we'd be able to answer your question better if we know > more in detail HOW this fails. Any error messages on the consoles? After powerup testing, the uVAX displays: 83 SYSTEM BOOT -ESA0 54 SYSTEM ERROR (The number is right, but text may be wrong.) It then repeats -- endlessly. > You never say what OS you were trying to use, but I assume it's > some version of VMS. You can login to the VAXstation as operator > (or someone with equivelent bits) and run REPLY/ENABLE, that would, > iirc, make the VAXstation log information to the console about > clients requesting load images (and much more ofcourse). Yes, VMS v5.5. Tried that and nothing on VAXstation screen. At this point, I guess I need to double check on what VMS options are installed and go accordingly, ala Tim and Zane. - don From donm at cts.com Wed May 19 19:34:42 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: <990519080416.210000d7@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > >This seems to leave using the MicroVAX as a satellite unit to the > >VAXStation as the only alternative. Tried this, and MicroVAX tried to > >boot from ESA0 while cabled to the VAXStation, but no-joy. Is the > >problem that of not having things set up for cluster operation? > > Right. There are databases that have to be built on the node the > satellites boot from, and the right software needs to be installed > there in the first place. > > > If so, > >how do I do that? > > If the VAXcluster software is installed, you log in as SYSTEM, > type @CLUSTER_CONFIG, and answer a few simple questions. > > >Keep it rather basic, please. I am pretty ignorant about all this. > > It's pretty easy. CLUSTER_CONFIG is a very friendly program, prompting > you along the way. You'll need to know the Ethernet address of each > satellite and establish some DECNET numbering scheme for your satellites. > The hardest part is thinking up six-character node names for each node :-). Got passed some of those wickets, but was stumped on an acceptable password. Everything I tried was classed as 'invalid password'. Could this be an indication of lack of license or installed software? - don > Running a VMSCluster is very easy - it's only slightly more difficult > to administrate a cluster of several hundred nodes than one node. Compare > this with running a few hundred Linux or Windows boxes, a task that > takes an army of administrators. > > -- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > From donm at cts.com Wed May 19 19:45:04 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: <199905191520.IAA23813@shell2.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > This seems to leave using the MicroVAX as a satellite unit to the > > VAXStation as the only alternative. Tried this, and MicroVAX tried to > > boot from ESA0 while cabled to the VAXStation, but no-joy. Is the > > problem that of not having things set up for cluster operation? If so, > > how do I do that? > > > > Keep it rather basic, please. I am pretty ignorant about all this. > > Um, I don't think there is a 'basic' answer. First a question, do you have > DECnet and Cluster licenses? If not you can get them as part of the I think not. How would I know? Are they listed on the "Key Options:" line of the PAK? > Hobbyist licenses. I don't know how different clustering on 5.5 differs > from 7.2, but you can look at the 7.2 clustering manuals at > http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/ > > How much free disk space do you have on the VAXstation, and do you have the > DECwindows stuff installed? SHOW DEV says that there are 120132 Free Blocks. I don't think that DECwindows is installed. I am presently using a terminal vice monitor and keyboard. - don > Zane > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 19:19:58 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at May 19, 99 06:50:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/a2245eb9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 19:45:44 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <37436F9B.C686A91F@sprint.ca> from "Brian Mahoney" at May 19, 99 08:12:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 658 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/87d092a9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 19 19:48:24 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <199905200023.RAA23107@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 19, 99 05:23:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/df4bf158/attachment.ksh From chemif at mbox.queen.it Wed May 19 22:15:38 1999 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull + [OT] insert Message-ID: <199905200315.FAA31197@beta.queen.it> At 17:09 18/05/99 -0500, you wrote: >On 18 May 99, at 16:58, Jay West wrote: > >> I am by no means well acquainted with the Honeywell line. But I was under >> the impression that a Honeywell DPS was never called a BULL, it was called >> a DPS. This is true:I also know that Bull put the label "Honeywell/Bull" on many machines that were projected under Honeywell and still in the market when they step in (e.g. I've personally seen many CQ36 and CQ38 printers with both labels, according to theyr manufacturing period). >> The only system with the Honeywell brand that was called a BULL was >> actually an OEM'ed RS6000 that Honeywell put the BULL label on. >> Can someone confirm or deny? This is not true. After the DPS and before the RS6000 line, BULL presented a line of machines that should be a connecting ring between the DPS architecture and the UNIX. >Don't know about that but I have a box which I picked up from a >company I worked for a long time ago which was always called a >Honeywell Bull. It wasn't an RS6000 but used an M68020. The family name was DPX/2 and models no's went from 210 to 380 In the company where I work we are still running a DPX/2 380 under B.O.S.IX The machine was the last one that used the Motorola 68000 family. If I remember correctly, 2xx family was monoprocessors while 3xx where multi; DPX320 and DPX360 used 68020 and 68030. Ours (380) has one 68040 at 25 Mhz but could accept up to 4 CPU. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Begin [OT] corner about price policy and machines sizing The funny (or sad) about that is that the expandibility offered by those machines are always not a good policy: After 3 years (1995) from the installation date, I decided to check the opportunity to upgrade the machine with another cpu. The official price was 21 million lira! (Abt 12 thousand USD) that was nearly the current price for a new system with a Pentium class processor: instead of adapting the price to the current market value price, they keep (or increase) the pricelist, probably to better convince them to change earlier the machine. I believe this policy is widely spread between constructors of propietary architectures machines. Now since the old DPX wouldn't see the lights of the new year in a sane condition, I'm quite indecided between the purchase of an entry level machine (you keep it 3-4 years then change without upgrades) or just a step further, with 2way processor capability. Do you have any personal experience on that?. End of [OT] corner ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Coming back to DPX family...well before the IBM collaborations (and shares exchange) on the PowerPc architecture, Bull released a contemporary line machine based on a RISC processor that still used BOSIX. Again the name was DPX/2 (cannot remember models name). After this model Bull came out with Estrella and Escala PPC machines. Some machines where developed by Bull and manufactured by IBM for both labels, some were developed and made by Bull. Ciao Riccardo Romagnoli I-47100 Forl? From chemif at mbox.queen.it Wed May 19 22:15:56 1999 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull Message-ID: <199905200315.FAA31208@beta.queen.it> At 15:28 18/05/99 -0700, you wrote: > >HUH? To the best of my knowledge no RS/6000 has ever used a M68020. See my previous msg. >I believe current RS/6000's use a Power3 processor, which is related to the >PPC. Estrella are now out of production Escala line has an entry level that is 32 bit architecture with a PPC 604 (32 bit) From chemif at mbox.queen.it Wed May 19 22:16:03 1999 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull Message-ID: <199905200316.FAA31213@beta.queen.it> At 16:26 18/05/99 -0700, you wrote: >Well, my Honeywell experience/knowledge is old and dated. I believe >Honeywell sold thier computer arm to Group Bull in the late 80's. However, >because of numerous contracts with the US Govenrnment "Honeywell Bull >Information Systems" or whatever it was/is called was formed. Something to >do with those contracts couldn't go to a non-US company. Hmm, probably things went this way...also they probably agreed with Honeywell a slower hand-over to allow the clients to better understand the passage between the two brands (marketing operation). >For example, >support for the DPS-8 was dropped sometime between 1991 and 1993, EXCEPT for >US Government systems. And many other governments systems around the world, since the system was widely sold to military organizations, being one of the few (at those time) with MIL standards design. >I suspect that systems that have DPS in the name are primarily the old >Honeywell systems (based in turn on the old GE Systems) Yes, the story was: Olivetti sold to G.E., that sold to Honeywell, that sold to Bull Riccardo Romagnoli I-47100 Forl? From zmerch at 30below.com Wed May 19 20:14:18 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: FS: Review copies of books about microprocessors and microcomputers. In-Reply-To: <199905192159.RAA22978@golden.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990519211418.00a48100@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Unusual systems had spoken clearly: >OK, the names are: [snip] Do you still have any of the 68K stuff available? Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From cfandt at netsync.net Wed May 19 19:53:23 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems In-Reply-To: <19990519.142714.92.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990519204628.00b4fed0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 11:21 AM 5/19/99 -0500, Jeffrey l Kaneko said something like: >On Wed, 19 May 1999 11:05:56 -0400 (EDT) allisonp@world.std.com writes: >> Also an interest but I tend to be more focused. I'm looking for >> DRUM >> memories of small physical size. I'm interested in getting one >> going >> and I'm limited in space and power I'm willing to commit as I want >> to have >> it run. >> >> If you run across anything that may be on the Northeast I'd be >> interested. >> >> Allison >> > >Sad thing is, I wouldn't know a drum memory if it fell on me. :^) >I imagine they were made by the 'heavies': CDC, GE, IBM, Burroughs, >etc. > >I recall seeing some made by *Hughes* for sale in a Meshna catalog, >several eons ago. I've still got a John Meshna catalog somewhere. '75 or '76 I think. It got unearthed during our move and got turned under again somewhere. I can even now visually recall the drum memory ad illustration. Allison might recall that company as Meshna was in *I think* Lowell, MA. I bought a computer linear power supply and an ARC-3 aircraft receiver from him and still have them. I miss those old surplus companies. Fair Radio Sales is one of the few remaining old time companies. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From zmerch at 30below.com Wed May 19 20:18:59 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Dang-Nabbit!!! ;-( Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990519211859.00988480@mail.30below.com> Geez... I can sympathize with you, Sir Wirehead! Seems you aren't the only person here with the "wish I could remember not to post personal crap to the list" blues... I did this right after I read your post about it! Dummy me even copied the correct email address into the clipboard... just forgot to past it into the To: field! Sorry, for I are dumb. Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From cfandt at netsync.net Wed May 19 20:17:22 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990519122032.009ed7a0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990519210752.00aed560@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:32 PM 5/19/99 +0100, Tony Duell said something like: >> So, I want to let you Apple polishers (or "Mac-adamia Nuts" ;-) have a >> chance at taking the system. The problem with the main box is probably >> simple to fix using parts from another dead box. He says there is just a >> spot on the screen about a quarter inch or so in size. The system seems to >> act normally otherwise, just that he can't see anything on the screen. >> Apparently to me, just the video sweep section on the CRT board failed. > >This sounds like the most common Mac+ fault of them all... And it's very >easy to fix. You are working on the PSU/HV board, so you should be >careful, but the capacitors seem to discharge fairly quickly on >switch-off. Perhaps I should say that only people who understand >electronics, work on monitors anyway, etc should try this. > >The most difficult part is removing the case. Unplug all the cables, take >off the battery cover, and undo the 5 Torx screws on the back. You'll >need the 'long' Torx driver for the 2 in the handle. > >Now look at the vertically mounted PCB - the analogue board. Near the top >is the flyback transformer. And just back from that, near the top edge, >is a 4-pin conenctor that carries the wires going to the scanning yoke. > >Take the cardboard cover. There will probably be at least one dry on the >pins of that connector or on the components near it. Resolder them. Check >for burnt pins on the connector as well. > >Try again. Most likely the picture will come up. If all you get is a >vertical line, then suspect the 3.9uF reversable electrolytic near that >connector. > >If it still doesn't work, get back to me. I know the standard analogue >board pretty well... I had no intentions to fix the thing myself. This is a "Mac-free Zone" ;) If one of the list members does get the system from Paul then they should save your msg to go by. If they want it fixed before Paul sends it to them, they should contact me to let me know. His office is just into town. I have to find just where the heck I put those Torx drivers when I moved my shop back in March. BTW, I've had even more experience, in years and number of units worked on, than you probably have. You are younger than I and I started repairing televisions back when I was around 15. 31 years. Jeez, that's been a while now. I'm getting old I guess ;) -- Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed May 19 17:43:06 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: John Meshna In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990519204628.00b4fed0@206.231.8.2> References: <19990519.142714.92.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990519174306.27ef0566@earthlink.net> Hi all, At 08:53 PM 5/19/99 -0400, Chris wrote: >I've still got a John Meshna catalog somewhere. '75 or '76 I think. It got >unearthed during our move and got turned under again somewhere. I can even >now visually recall the drum memory ad illustration. Allison might recall >that company as Meshna was in *I think* Lowell, MA. > The ads in Byte have a PO box address in Lynn, Mass. They had lots of core planes too. I have been unable to find any of my old catalogs from them for years. At least keyboards are much more cheaper now! I did find a Fair Radio catalog from then, though. -Dave From cfandt at netsync.net Wed May 19 21:09:47 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: John Meshna In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990519174306.27ef0566@earthlink.net> References: <4.1.19990519204628.00b4fed0@206.231.8.2> <19990519.142714.92.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990519220746.00ad8dd0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 05:43 PM 5/19/99 +0000, Dave Dameron said something like: >Hi all, >At 08:53 PM 5/19/99 -0400, Chris wrote: > >>I've still got a John Meshna catalog somewhere. '75 or '76 I think. It got >>unearthed during our move and got turned under again somewhere. I can even >>now visually recall the drum memory ad illustration. Allison might recall >>that company as Meshna was in *I think* Lowell, MA. >> >The ads in Byte have a PO box address in Lynn, Mass. They had lots of core Ahh, Lynn! That's the "L" name of the town I was trying to think of :) Thanks. >planes too. I have been unable to find any of my old catalogs from them for >years. >At least keyboards are much more cheaper now! > >I did find a Fair Radio catalog from then, though. I have a stack of Fair Radio catalogs which I use as a reference actually. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From jruschme at jruschme.dyn.ml.org Wed May 19 21:13:16 1999 From: jruschme at jruschme.dyn.ml.org (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Apple Monitors ?? In-Reply-To: <199905192115.OAA01997@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from Tom Owad at "May 19, 99 05:11:46 pm" Message-ID: <199905200213.WAA19420@jruschme.dyn.ml.org> > >One other question: What was the RGB port on the //c used for? Was this > >for a high-resolution color monitor or what (other than the LCD panel)? > > Actually, I don't believe its an RGB port. According to the manual, the > little icon above the port represents "Color TV". The port is used to > connect an RF modulator. I recall reading that the only way to get RGB > monitors to work with a IIc is via a composite-to-RGB adapter, which had > not yet shipped by the time the book was published. IIRC, the 15-pin port outputs raw signals which would be converted to RGB via an adapter (Video7 made one, don't know who else). This differs from the Laser 128 which can put out either the raw signals or a RGB (determined by the setting of a switch on the bottom). <<>> From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 19 21:24:54 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: References: <199905191520.IAA23813@shell2.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >> Um, I don't think there is a 'basic' answer. First a question, do you have >> DECnet and Cluster licenses? If not you can get them as part of the > >I think not. How would I know? Are they listed on the "Key Options:" >line of the PAK? Try typing SHOW LICE at the prompt, that should show you what licenses you have installed. Based on a foggy memory I suspect you've just got the basic Hobbyist license for OpenVMS installed. You can get the layered product licenses from the same place. >SHOW DEV says that there are 120132 Free Blocks. I don't think that >DECwindows is installed. I am presently using a terminal vice monitor and >keyboard. I hate blocks (though not as much as links and littelinks), lets see that should be about 60Mb, which even if you don't have DECnet and clustering software installed should be plenty of room, HOWEVER, the problem is getting a copy onto the machine. Zane P.S. the SHOW LICE command is actually SHOW LICENSE, but SHOW LICE works and appeals to by twisted sense of humor :^) | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 19 22:15:59 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff Message-ID: <199905200315.AA17463@world.std.com> Today I found the manuals for the PX-8 I got over the weekend at another thrift, talk about strange luck. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed May 19 23:34:34 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Scientific Micro Systems Message-ID: <19990519.233945.176.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 19 May 1999 20:53:23 -0400 Christian Fandt writes: >>Sad thing is, I wouldn't know a drum memory if it fell on me. :^) >>I imagine they were made by the 'heavies': CDC, GE, IBM, Burroughs, >>etc. >> >>I recall seeing some made by *Hughes* for sale in a Meshna catalog, >>several eons ago. > >I've still got a John Meshna catalog somewhere. '75 or '76 I think. It >got unearthed during our move and got turned under again somewhere. I can >even now visually recall the drum memory ad illustration. Allison might >recall that company as Meshna was in *I think* Lowell, MA. That's it! That's it! Wow, you mean there is actually a surviving copy? Whoa. That sure brings back memories . . . >I bought a computer linear power supply and an ARC-3 aircraft receiver >from him and still have them. I miss those old surplus companies. Fair >Radio Sales is one of the few remaining old time companies. You know, I never cared for these guys. All of their stuff struck me as being horribly over priced (for most things). Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed May 19 19:22:56 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: pix of vaxstation (?) motherboard. In-Reply-To: <19990519.233945.176.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <199905200416.AAA00312@mail.cgocable.net> Hi all! I have .jpg scanned image of it at 38KB. Not great quality but more than enough to ID it if anyone have seen it before. It was scanned on canoscan 620 bed. Yuk. If you want to see it, I can attach it to email. Thanks! Wizard From donm at cts.com Wed May 19 23:19:44 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Um, I don't think there is a 'basic' answer. First a question, do you have > >> DECnet and Cluster licenses? If not you can get them as part of the > > > >I think not. How would I know? Are they listed on the "Key Options:" > >line of the PAK? > > Try typing SHOW LICE at the prompt, that should show you what licenses you > have installed. Based on a foggy memory I suspect you've just got the > basic Hobbyist license for OpenVMS installed. You can get the layered > product licenses from the same place. It says: VAX-VMS Producer: DEC Units: 0 Version: 6.1 Date: (none) Termination Date: 11-AUG-1999 Availability: 0 Activity: A (VMS Capacity) NO_SHARE Do I suspect correctly that NO_SHARE equals no-joy? > >SHOW DEV says that there are 120132 Free Blocks. I don't think that > >DECwindows is installed. I am presently using a terminal vice monitor and > >keyboard. > > I hate blocks (though not as much as links and littelinks), lets see that > should be about 60Mb, which even if you don't have DECnet and clustering > software installed should be plenty of room, HOWEVER, the problem is > getting a copy onto the machine. Yes, sort of a 'rock and a hard spot' kind of thing. I have been reading with interest of Wolfgang Moeller's patches to make the VS2000's SCSI more conformant to standards. But even here is the problem - how to get it there. I installed a 1.2mb floppy (RX33), but one needs to get data on the floppy to be of value. Sigh!!! - don > Zane > > P.S. the SHOW LICE command is actually SHOW LICENSE, but SHOW LICE works > and appeals to by twisted sense of humor :^) > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 19 23:26:10 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: <000b01bea272$556e0e40$4b721fd1@5x86jk> Message-ID: >Today I found the manuals for the PX-8 I got over the weekend at another >thrift, talk about strange luck. If they were both Goodwill stores it's not strange at all. I've found that in the Portland area the way to make a junkstore run that includes Goodwill is to hit ALL the Goodwills. You're likely to have to go to all of them to find the entire system. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Wed May 19 23:34:14 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: <199905200315.AA17463@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > > Yes the LANCE chip (NI) is on a smaller paddle board. > > <40 conductor ribbon cables. What is missing is the large - almost main > > Yes. Without it you have mono video or you can run using a serial terminal > via the printer port as console. The connector if pin 8 or 9 is grounded > tells it to use serial port instead of the video console. I've hard That is the way I am running. > jumpered mine so I can boot and run headless or use a more common cable > if I want a serial terminal on the system. > > the 50 pin is the SCSI the 60 pins is HDC and floppy and the other larger > board is the video extension. Without the video board they are the same > beast. So with a suitable cable and formatted hard drive (my XT2190) I should be able to convert the uVAX into a VAXstation, but without the external peripheral connectors. > > No. The storage devices are always available if the system probe finds > them. It's possible to have a RX33 floppy(TEAC FD55GFV), MFM hard disk, What does the Berg jumper do then? > A second RD5X MFM and TAPE(TK50) via a SCSI bridge. NOTE: the scsi is > real SCSI hardware wise but the roms(and VMS drivers) do not implement > compatable SCSI protocal so the only standard device is the oddball TK50. > The SCSI oddity is from the mid 80s when SASI/SCSI was not a clear standard. > > For hard disks RD54 is the most desireable but v5.x can be trimmed to > fit on a 71mb RD53 (DECwindows has to go,as I've got one here that way). > Terminal support is via the DB9 printer port. If you can find one there > is an adaptor P/N70-23766 that converts the video connector and the printer > connector to three RS423 MMJ serial ports. I have one and picked up several of the cables at a recent swapmeet. Haven't used either yet. > I run all my VAXen to serial ports and a VT1200 DECterm, can't spare the > space for the usual VR260/290/320 or larger tubes. Since DECnet does > the equivelent telnet (and then some) one or two tubes are enough for > support and talk to all of them. > > Hope this helps. I happen to have three of them, two running VMS and one > with Ultrix4.2 on it. To that two MicrovaxIIs, 3 MV3100/M10Es, > 1 MV3100/M76 sharing the eithernet with two MS PCs and a Linux PC box. > > Allison > Yes, thanks, Allison. Helpful as always! - don From donm at cts.com Wed May 19 23:37:53 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: <199905200316.AA17553@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > < > <83 SYSTEM BOOT > < > <-ESA0 > < > <54 SYSTEM ERROR (The number is right, but text may be wrong.) > < > > That means it tries to boot via the net, and no one is home. > > < > > For remote boot the client must be know to the host so that the right files > are delivered. There will be configuration files on the host for that. > Try HELP if memory serves there is mention. Vax docs are a must for this. > > Allison > I have a VMS System Managers Manual. Guess it is time to poke my nose deeper into it! - don From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed May 19 23:51:02 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: The Northstar Boots!!! (LONG) In-Reply-To: <199905192159.RAA22978@golden.net> Message-ID: Just wanted to share that the Northstar Horizon I've been hacking off and on for two years booted tonight. I was able to load up NDOS 5.1 and run BASIC on it! I was leaping to and fro! =-D I've messed with it occasionally with the goal of getting it to work and always got frustrated at my inability to get some kind of variation in behavior out of it. This time, starting on Saturday, I approached it not caring if I got it working or not. I decided I just wanted to learn about S100 boxes, Z80 stuff and general troubleshooting. Currently it's configured as a N* Horizon with two serial ports, the later model CPU card, an MDS-AD3 disk controller, 1 Shugart SA400 floppy drive and a Northstar 16k (A2 version) RAM board. I have an A3 version board but one of the bypass caps is broken in two and I don't trust it anyway. (For your amusement, I was using a 4meg Mac SE as a terminal.) At any rate, it turns out that if you follow the troubleshooting flowcharts (written not diagrams) in the N* manuals, you can really isolate problems down alot. Turns out that it's been booting for two days but the serial ports are configured for a 3 wire interface and REALLY HATE anything else. I put in a breakout box with only a 3 wire and *poof* it gives me the NDOS banner and a prompt. There's still some flakiness I have to explore. I walked upstairs to announce my breakthrough to my wife and came back down and noticed some garbage on the screen (not random per se) and that it had become unresponsive to the terminal. Hitting reset did not solve the problem. Powering it down and rebooting did, however. And then it seemed to straighten itself out. I'm not sure if it's a warmup thing, a static thing (which it shouldn't be), poor filtering on the PS or what. I intend to increase available memory with some nice boards I have, swap out the single SA400 for some other less scarce standard floppy drives, configure so I can boot CP/M and add a Disk Jockey 2D and a nice 8" drive I have. Now I just need to find some hard-sectored disks for it. *frown* But I'm very excited about S100 and find that I like it ALOT. Just wanted to share my enthusiasm with the group. Anthony Clifton From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 20 00:12:49 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >VAX-VMS > Producer: DEC > Units: 0 > Version: 6.1 > Date: (none) > Termination Date: 11-AUG-1999 > Availability: 0 > Activity: A (VMS Capacity) > NO_SHARE > >Do I suspect correctly that NO_SHARE equals no-joy? Actually it means the license is only good for that system, but you can load another license for the other system, both licenses can co-exist on the same system. The Current Hobbyist licenses cover ANY version of VMS for VAX or Alpha, and 103 layered products. >Yes, sort of a 'rock and a hard spot' kind of thing. I have been reading >with interest of Wolfgang Moeller's patches to make the VS2000's SCSI more >conformant to standards. But even here is the problem - how to get it >there. I installed a 1.2mb floppy (RX33), but one needs to get data on >the floppy to be of value. Sigh!!! I don't suppose you've got a Linux PC? Linux can have DECnet support added. I suspect you've got DECnet on the VAX, and just need the license PAK to activate it. If that is true, it would be possible to transfer files to the VAX via DECnet. It's pretty easy to add DECnet support, but it does require that you recompile the Linux kernel. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 20 00:22:40 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: <199905200315.AA17463@world.std.com> Message-ID: >Terminal support is via the DB9 printer port. If you can find one there >is an adaptor P/N70-23766 that converts the video connector and the printer >connector to three RS423 MMJ serial ports. Does this just work on a VAXstation 2000? I think I have one of these that I found a couple weeks ago in a junk store. Can't check the P/N as I'm really not sure where it's at just now :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at netwiz.net Thu May 20 00:25:59 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <199905191955.VAA14620@horus.mch.sni.de> References: <199905191655.SAA07751@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: >Anyway, I guess an Appletalk installation >will cost more than these Macs used :) Not really, LocalTalk or Phonenet isn't that hard to find in bulk fairly cheap. I have enough to wire about 75 macs, and sell the adapters for $5 each, 3 for $10. From donm at cts.com Thu May 20 00:31:30 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >VAX-VMS > > Producer: DEC > > Units: 0 > > Version: 6.1 > > Date: (none) > > Termination Date: 11-AUG-1999 > > Availability: 0 > > Activity: A (VMS Capacity) > > NO_SHARE > > > >Do I suspect correctly that NO_SHARE equals no-joy? > > Actually it means the license is only good for that system, but you can > load another license for the other system, both licenses can co-exist on > the same system. The Current Hobbyist licenses cover ANY version of VMS > for VAX or Alpha, and 103 layered products. That is pretty broad! > >Yes, sort of a 'rock and a hard spot' kind of thing. I have been reading > >with interest of Wolfgang Moeller's patches to make the VS2000's SCSI more > >conformant to standards. But even here is the problem - how to get it > >there. I installed a 1.2mb floppy (RX33), but one needs to get data on > >the floppy to be of value. Sigh!!! > > I don't suppose you've got a Linux PC? Linux can have DECnet support > added. I suspect you've got DECnet on the VAX, and just need the license > PAK to activate it. If that is true, it would be possible to transfer > files to the VAX via DECnet. I started to build one a couple of years ago, but set it aside. I may have to see if I can resurrect it - and get a later edition of Linux, too. > It's pretty easy to add DECnet support, but it does require that you > recompile the Linux kernel. Have to get it up first :) - don > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 20 00:41:08 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:10 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I started to build one a couple of years ago, but set it aside. I may >have to see if I can resurrect it - and get a later edition of Linux, too. > >> It's pretty easy to add DECnet support, but it does require that you >> recompile the Linux kernel. > >Have to get it up first :) Do yourself a favor if you try this, RedHat 6.0 just came out recently. It's the way to go. Though if you can find RedHat 5.3 cheap it would be OK also. Anything older and you might have problems with the DECnet support. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Thu May 20 00:53:57 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Do yourself a favor if you try this, RedHat 6.0 just came out recently. That is what I have been hearing from some friends. > It's the way to go. Though if you can find RedHat 5.3 cheap it would be OK > also. Anything older and you might have problems with the DECnet support. I don't even know just what I have. It was put together by someone in Texas, IIRC, and sold very inexpensively. - don > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From mikeford at netwiz.net Thu May 20 00:42:47 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Thrift shop rants and revels In-Reply-To: <19990519200335.12771.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Today was a bloody day of thrift shopping. Literally, I stuck my hand too carelessly into a bin and something poked me between the thumb and thumbnail. Worse, the results of an hour and a half of digging in crud was just an old intellivision game and a dozen cartridges. When it arrived it must have been in nice shape, all the cartridges in the original boxes, but the earlier diggers always dump the contents of every box they find so it took all that time to find the bits and pieces as best I could. Even worse in the end I walked out and left it unwilling to pay the cashiers price of $10. A later stop wasn't any more fun, with prices I was just barely willing to pay. I do have a six inch stack of Cromemco software sitting on my desk though. Unfortunately it looks like I don't have more than about half of three different releases of Unix System V, but I do have half a dozen different utilities etc. Kind of sickening to think some people are out there erasing the disks I don't have to use for some DOS something. Gotta wonder where the Cromemco might be too. From mikeford at netwiz.net Thu May 20 01:14:46 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: <199905200023.RAA23107@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 19, 99 05:23:13 pm Message-ID: >> >> Mike Ford wrote: >> > People don't >> > value things they get for free. >> >> Hi >> I have a lot of old data books that I guard with > >I know the feeling. I don't go as far as firearms (I'm in the UK, after I meant "normal" people. All that is required to learn this lesson is to give something away free for long enough. People will take your box of oranges because they want a box and toss the oranges. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu May 20 02:53:05 1999 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Amiga A1020 5.25" floppy drive (was Re: Atari modem) Message-ID: >> You should be able to find instructions somewhere on the net for >> making the conversion cable necessary to convert a standard PC >> 5 1/4 drive for use on an Amiga. I remember articles to this >> effect ten years ago or so, as the Amiga Transformer PC emulator >> was popular. Well I seem to remember building an external 3.5" drive for my old A500 which was just a couple of buffer chips and nothing more - I'd assume that a 5.25" drive would be similar, no? cheers Jules From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 20 07:22:47 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yes, sort of a 'rock and a hard spot' kind of thing. I have been reading > with interest of Wolfgang Moeller's patches to make the VS2000's SCSI more Yes but the only bootable media for SCSI is the TK50. > conformant to standards. But even here is the problem - how to get it > there. I installed a 1.2mb floppy (RX33), but one needs to get data on > the floppy to be of value. Sigh!!! RX33 is a 1.2mb PC disk. See dbit and other site for PUTR and telebit. The disk interface for floppy likely also supports rx50 format (single sided rx33), so RX50 floppies with stand alone backup can be used. You can use backup to put stuff on RX33, there is a utility to create a standalone backup kit on most any media, check HELP for the invocation. One way to get VMS from a working system is to do a standalone backup/image of the disk on the host and then write that backup set to the target system using standalone backup from floppies, TK50 or even a hard disk! Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 20 07:30:02 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So with a suitable cable and formatted hard drive (my XT2190) I should be > able to convert the uVAX into a VAXstation, but without the external > peripheral connectors. Yep! change the names to confuse the issue but it's the same hardware. You can make the cables needed to have the external scsi and MFM drive. > What does the Berg jumper do then? I forget. Never paid much attention to it. I think I has to do with the reset/halt switch functionality. They are cute little machines as they give you a vax that is tiny. A lot of people get them and use them with VMS and UCX or CMUIP to get a DECnet to TCP/IP bridge or use ultrix for same. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 20 07:40:49 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: The Northstar Boots!!! (LONG) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > off and on for two years booted tonight. I was able to load up > NDOS 5.1 and run BASIC on it! I was leaping to and fro! =-D Mazel Tov! > the later model CPU card, an MDS-AD3 disk controller, 1 Shugart LAter cpu card??? The only one I know is the ZPB... > SA400 floppy drive and a Northstar 16k (A2 version) RAM board. > I have an A3 version board but one of the bypass caps is broken > in two and I don't trust it anyway. The -a3 was better but the 16k design was poor, though once gotten working they tended to stay that way. > flowcharts (written not diagrams) in the N* manuals, you can really > isolate problems down alot. Turns out that it's been booting for > two days but the serial ports are configured for a 3 wire interface > and REALLY HATE anything else. I put in a breakout box with only > a 3 wire and *poof* it gives me the NDOS banner and a prompt. Yes their docs are sparse but do have useful info as a payback. > unresponsive to the terminal. Hitting reset did not solve the problem. > Powering it down and rebooting did, however. And then it seemed to > straighten itself out. I'm not sure if it's a warmup thing, a static > thing (which it shouldn't be), poor filtering on the PS or what. Bad ram card. The dynamic ram is not refreshing correctly and forgetting. That is the high probability guess. Try a different ram now that your up. PS filtering may be a problem if the broken cap is on the ram card. OH, AND MAKE A BACKUP OF THE SYSTEM DISK!!! > But I'm very excited about S100 and find that I like it ALOT. The NS* is a very capable machine and well designed. NOTE: while it's s100 it is NOT IEEE696 compatable and will not work with some cards (many compupro controllers, their ram is ok) without some simple mods. It's design window is 1977 and many of the later 696 cards are of the post 1980 design window. Just a heads up, they all can be made to work with care but don't always expect plug it in and go. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 20 07:44:15 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Terminal support is via the DB9 printer port. If you can find one there > >is an adaptor P/N70-23766 that converts the video connector and the printer > >connector to three RS423 MMJ serial ports. > > Does this just work on a VAXstation 2000? I think I have one of these that > I found a couple weeks ago in a junk store. Can't check the P/N as I'm > really not sure where it's at just now :^) it's only for (VS/MV)2000. There is an alternate part number for it too, I forget that one. Allison From kevan at heydon.org Thu May 20 08:04:34 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: UK: VaxStation 3800 Message-ID: <37440862.2AD07B42@heydon.org> I have just been told about a VaxStation 3800 that is being scrapped. It also comes with a couple of cabinets of disks (RA82's and the like), one 5' high and one about 3.5' high. If interested then contact me. It is located in central Cambridge, UK. Kevan From marvin at rain.org Thu May 20 09:54:01 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Tossing References: <199905200023.RAA23107@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 19, 99 05:23:13 pm Message-ID: <37442209.30BCA5B3@rain.org> Mike Ford wrote: > > >> > >> Mike Ford wrote: > >> > People don't > >> > value things they get for free. > >> > >> I have a lot of old data books that I guard with > > > >I know the feeling. I don't go as far as firearms (I'm in the UK, after > > I meant "normal" people. All that is required to learn this lesson is to > give something away free for long enough. People will take your box of > oranges because they want a box and toss the oranges. While working for another company years ago, I offered our customers a free two day seminar on the maintenance of our equipment; about 40% of the registered people actually attended. The next time, I charged $250.00 (token fee) and the only people who didn't show up were the two who had bought a machine and wanted in on the prior free deal (which I okayed.) Ah yes. From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Thu May 20 11:10:50 1999 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: UK: VaxStation 3800 In-Reply-To: <37440862.2AD07B42@heydon.org> References: <37440862.2AD07B42@heydon.org> Message-ID: >I have just been told about a VaxStation 3800 that is being scrapped. It >also comes with a couple of cabinets of disks (RA82's and the like), one >5' high and one about 3.5' high. If interested then contact me. It is >located in central Cambridge, UK. Oh, I'd love to salvage something like this, but space is something I am definitely lacking at the moment. And I live in nearby London... :~( Nasos. From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu May 20 11:19:45 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Tossing Message-ID: <001401bea2dc$93122fa0$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> >> >> Mike Ford wrote: >> >> > People don't >> >> > value things they get for free. I beg to respectfully differ. I got my PDP-8E for free (PDP-8E cpu, box of spare cards, TU-56 tape drive, Paper tape reader, and a lowboy rack). Not only that, but the collector de-racked and loaded the system in his truck by himself, and offered to drive half way to meet me. I would suspect that this meets anyone's definition of free (ok, so I spent some gas money for me and him and bought him lunch). This system is one of the most treasured in my collection. I have spent many months painstakingly refurbishing the machine to factory new condition. So, I have to say that people *DO* value the things they get for free. Heck, the fact that I got it free makes me value the thing more than if I'd paid real cash for it, at the very least because if evokes fond memories of that day of pleasant historical computing conversation with the donor. And - that is not the only example. A truely kind soul on this list (to whom I am eternally gratefull) sent me an HP2108A cpu and PDP-8E 8K core board for simply shipping charges. There are many other examples. At the very least, since I have received this treatment from others there are times I have already sent out items for free, and there will likely be others in the future. That doesn't mean at ALL that I don't value them. Jay West From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu May 20 11:36:51 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Do yourself a favor if you try this, RedHat 6.0 just came out recently. > It's the way to go. Though if you can find RedHat 5.3 cheap it would be OK > also. Anything older and you might have problems with the DECnet support. I'll have to recommend S.u.S.E. 6.1 over RedHat any day. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu May 20 08:17:11 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Some finds In-Reply-To: References: <199905190510.BAA25523@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199905201717.NAA23560@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 May 99 at 12:01, Mike Ford wrote: > >Also a pristine Apple ImageWriter ll printer to go with my llc and a vol of > > Something to check for on the Imagewriter II printers is the localtalk > option board. I just picked up 4 Imagewriter II's and 2 so far have the > boards, which triples the value of the printer. > > How can you tell ? I have the 8-pin mini-plug and under a plate on top-rear is a F 10-pin socket of some kind. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu May 20 08:17:10 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Responding to sig line type remarks In-Reply-To: References: <199905190427.AAA21693@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199905201717.NAA23607@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 May 99 at 11:48, Mike Ford wrote: > > In case people wonder why I use "ciao" it's a Canadian reaction to the > >British Imperialist "cheers", used during drinks after executing "native" > >rebels, or a cricket match served by primitive colonials. You Yanks don't > >have the resentment left that us Canucks have, but you're working hard to > >replace the British in our resentments. And both my parents were born in the > >Excited States before !900. Sorry for the politics but Americans forget they > >are just one country not the world despite their footprint. > >lwalker@interlog.com > > I invented saying "Cheers" at the end of my emails about 8 years ago and it > just caught on, sorry. I never use it after excuting a native rebel. I > agree this list is no place for politics, besides in a few years when > Canadians officially become North Americans the issue will be moot. > We'll only let the US join if they accept the "looney" as the common dollar. > BTW I have nothing against Canadian's, and frequently at auctions even bid > on the Canadian lots (100A, 233A, etc.). > Carefull or we'll repatriate our entertainers and you'll be without an entertainment industry. We'd let you keep Captain Kirk , of course. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu May 20 08:17:14 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: References: <199905190454.AAA24376@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 19, 99 00:54:31 am Message-ID: <199905201717.NAA23573@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 May 99 at 18:58, Tony Duell wrote: > > > I do consider it 'collecting', don't worry. I guess I just prefer large > > > boards of TTL that I can understand to large ASICs that I can't.... > > > > > > -tony > > > > > > > > As I said I'm not from Texas, so BIG don't mean shit to me. > > I don't like minis _because_ they're big, I like them because they're > made out of simple components that I can understand, like NAND gates and > flip-flops, and all the connections to these gates and flip-flops are > accessible on pins of chips (or of transistors or valves :-)). From what > you say below, I suspect you have similar likings... > Yes, elegance and simplicity of design attracts me in all things. > > > > The Dec PDP8/e attraction goes way back to my digital course when a friend > > gave me a DEC 8/e maintenance manual which outlined the CPU processes with the > > The 8/e maintenance manual is one of the best hardware manuals that I > own. It describes how the 8/e (and its memory + peripherals, the full set > is 3 books) work at gate level. And it's clear!. > > It's a very understandable description of a real processor that runs real > programs. I learnt a heck of a lot from these books. > > -tony > The one I have is the "Processor Maintenance Manual" Vol 1 . A lovely book. One of my most prized computer texts. No comparison to most of the badly written, mispelled, an in many cases uninformative texts that pass for manuals these days. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu May 20 12:25:19 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Diversion: "Q-BUS" license plate In-Reply-To: <199905201643.MAA02028@dbit.dbit.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990520102519.009a76f0@mail.sfu.ca> At 12:43 PM 20/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >I always meant to hang an M9302 in the back window of my VW bus, that way I >could be the bus driver and the board could be the bus terminator. I suppose >I'd need an 8881 or 8641 T-shirt or something to make it official... GROAN! You'd have to have your wife beside you as bus master and source of interrupts. Kevin ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi@sfu.ca From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu May 20 12:35:46 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Responding to sig line type remarks In-Reply-To: <199905201717.NAA23607@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 20, 99 01:17:10 pm Message-ID: <199905201735.KAA10846@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1469 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/3b524e1f/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu May 20 08:46:41 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199905201746.NAA01952@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 May 99 at 23:14, Mike Ford wrote: > >> > >> Mike Ford wrote: > >> > People don't > >> > value things they get for free. > >> > >> Hi > >> I have a lot of old data books that I guard with > > > >I know the feeling. I don't go as far as firearms (I'm in the UK, after > > I meant "normal" people. All that is required to learn this lesson is to > give something away free for long enough. People will take your box of > oranges because they want a box and toss the oranges. > Unfortunately, I have to agree in general. It seems to be an adjunct of the "disposable" society and the monetary fetish that infects us in the "first world" . I think future generations will look back in horror at our wastefullness of dwindling resources. Being a "child of the depression" I hate to discard anything, as evidenced by my overcrowded quarters and my delite when someone displays an interest in and takes some redundant treasure I've hung onto. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From jfoust at threedee.com Thu May 20 12:50:04 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Responding to sig line type remarks In-Reply-To: <199905201717.NAA23607@smtp.interlog.com> References: <199905190427.AAA21693@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990520125004.00f6ed60@vpwisfirewall> At 01:17 PM 5/20/99 +0000, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> > We'll only let the US join if they accept the "looney" as the common dollar. Like Canada, we'd have trouble with all the dimwits who'd go crazy trying to peel off the foil to get to the chocolate. > Carefull or we'll repatriate our entertainers and you'll be without an >entertainment industry. We'd let you keep Captain Kirk , of course. C, eh? N, eh? D, eh? - John From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Thu May 20 09:01:34 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: board ID of this vax board. Please anyone? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990520102519.009a76f0@mail.sfu.ca> References: <199905201643.MAA02028@dbit.dbit.com> Message-ID: <199905201755.NAA20563@mail.cgocable.net> I have these 3 boards but I tried to post these numbers and info I all my best to describe them have failed. Had scanned that board. Only one file done in JPG format 38K size. If you want to view it, I will send on request. Remember, I won't post that file right there on that list because that will offend some people. Wizard From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu May 20 09:00:34 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Responding to sig line type remarks In-Reply-To: <199905201735.KAA10846@oa.ptloma.edu> References: <199905201717.NAA23607@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 20, 99 01:17:10 pm Message-ID: <199905201800.OAA06232@smtp.interlog.com> On 20 May 99 at 10:35, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > :: Carefull or we'll repatriate our entertainers and you'll be without an > ::entertainment industry. We'd let you keep Captain Kirk , of course. > > Did you ever see Canadian Bacon? When Alan Alda declares war on Canada, one > of the propaganda commercials says: > > "THE CANADIANS -- THEY WALK AMONG US!" > > showing pictures of Alan Thicke, William Shatner, Dan Aykroyd, John Candy > and others (the last two of course appearing in Canadian Bacon ... as > Yanks :-). > > If you haven't, rent it. It's a riot. Especially Candy to a RCMP: > > RCMP: "I don't know what yoo're talking aboot." > Candy: "Watch out, we have ways of making you pronounce your vowels." > > Oh, yeah, and their truck which has "CANUCKS GO HOME" written all over it; > they get pulled over by a Canadian cop who makes them write it all in French > as well (shades of Monty Python there, cf. the scene where the Front of Judean > Peoples vandalises Herod's residence in ungrammatical Latin). > Yeah it was made in Toronto and crewed by many guys I had worked with. Moore is brilliant. I'd love to see him do a thing on Gates. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From mikeford at netwiz.net Thu May 20 13:09:09 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Diversion: "Q-BUS" license plate In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990520102519.009a76f0@mail.sfu.ca> References: <199905201643.MAA02028@dbit.dbit.com> Message-ID: >At 12:43 PM 20/05/99 -0400, you wrote: >>I always meant to hang an M9302 in the back window of my VW bus, that way I >>could be the bus driver and the board could be the bus terminator. I suppose >>I'd need an 8881 or 8641 T-shirt or something to make it official... > >GROAN! > >You'd have to have your wife beside you as bus master and source of >interrupts. Technically I think the VW bus is SCSI anyway. From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu May 20 13:18:34 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Responding to sig line type remarks In-Reply-To: <199905201800.OAA06232@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 20, 99 02:00:34 pm Message-ID: <199905201818.LAA07384@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/78864676/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu May 20 13:29:18 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Some finds Message-ID: <5b16a8a.2475ae7e@aol.com> In a message dated 99-05-20 13:21:03 EDT, you write: > > Something to check for on the Imagewriter II printers is the localtalk > > option board. I just picked up 4 Imagewriter II's and 2 so far have the > > boards, which triples the value of the printer. > > > > > How can you tell ? I have the 8-pin mini-plug and under a plate on top-rear > is > a F 10-pin socket of some kind. Look for appletalk cards in them? Bring small philips screwdriver. Lift 2 top covers .... one a narrow back strip .... then the big one with smoked glass (or plastic) slide carriage all the way left and remove ribbon note 2 screws left and right in lower corner of opening back all way out and lift up front cover whis has wire attached Look inside on right ... board should have (front to back) 1 1/2 inch connector or card mounted on it Thats it... card or no card .... pretty valuable From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu May 20 13:56:59 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Diversion: "Q-BUS" license plate In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "May 20, 1999 11: 9: 9 am" Message-ID: <199905201856.OAA32730@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > >At 12:43 PM 20/05/99 -0400, you wrote: > >>I always meant to hang an M9302 in the back window of my VW bus, that way I > >>could be the bus driver and the board could be the bus terminator. I suppose Cool. I've got a 9302 somewhere... > >>I'd need an 8881 or 8641 T-shirt or something to make it official... > > > >GROAN! > > > >You'd have to have your wife beside you as bus master and source of > >interrupts. Actually the wife's the bus master. My daughter's the source of interrupts. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From donm at cts.com Thu May 20 15:31:34 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: VAXStation/MicroVAX 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > Yes, sort of a 'rock and a hard spot' kind of thing. I have been reading > > with interest of Wolfgang Moeller's patches to make the VS2000's SCSI more > > Yes but the only bootable media for SCSI is the TK50. Understood. > > conformant to standards. But even here is the problem - how to get it > > there. I installed a 1.2mb floppy (RX33), but one needs to get data on > > the floppy to be of value. Sigh!!! > > RX33 is a 1.2mb PC disk. See dbit and other site for PUTR and telebit. > The disk interface for floppy likely also supports rx50 format (single > sided rx33), so RX50 floppies with stand alone backup can be used. I think it does, though T 70 will not format it. > You can use backup to put stuff on RX33, there is a utility to create a But only from the VS or uVAX. Not from a PC or other except perhaps Linux. > standalone backup kit on most any media, check HELP for the invocation. > One way to get VMS from a working system is to do a standalone > backup/image of the disk on the host and then write that backup set to the > target system using standalone backup from floppies, TK50 or even a hard > disk! Right now I have two bootable RD54s - the one that came with the VS2000 and the one that I formatted and loaded and which is presently in the VS. I think I'll install the original in the uVAX after I debug a cable for it now that I know that the only lack is the graphics card. - don > Allison > > > From donm at cts.com Thu May 20 15:53:29 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Diversion: "Q-BUS" license plate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > >At 12:43 PM 20/05/99 -0400, you wrote: > >>I always meant to hang an M9302 in the back window of my VW bus, that way I > >>could be the bus driver and the board could be the bus terminator. I suppose > >>I'd need an 8881 or 8641 T-shirt or something to make it official... > > > >GROAN! > > > >You'd have to have your wife beside you as bus master and source of > >interrupts. > > Technically I think the VW bus is SCSI anyway. > ^^^^ > Small Camper Space Inside ? > - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 16:53:23 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Collecting PCs In-Reply-To: <199905201717.NAA23573@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at May 20, 99 01:17:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1060 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/53814f8f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 16:31:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990519210752.00aed560@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 19, 99 09:17:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2371 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/b390cde4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 17:03:25 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Diversion: "Q-BUS" license plate In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990520102519.009a76f0@mail.sfu.ca> from "Kevin McQuiggin" at May 20, 99 10:25:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 692 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/090f7061/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 16:39:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 19, 99 11:14:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 792 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990520/efbc40cc/attachment.ksh From russ at indiana.edu Thu May 20 17:19:00 1999 From: russ at indiana.edu (jeff russ) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: subscribe Message-ID: From gene at ehrich.com Thu May 20 17:30:31 1999 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Apple Mouse In-Reply-To: <01be99e0$b0d7a880$568ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <4.1.19990520182945.009dfa90@popmail.voicenet.com> At 10:56 PM 5/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi! > >Does anyone have, or know where I could find, a mouse for an Apple //c? > Jason, I have for sale on my web site. Gene gene@ehrich http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale Gene Ehrich PO Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 From gene at ehrich.com Thu May 20 17:35:22 1999 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Need Laptop battery for Thinkpad 500 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990510152637.009a9d70@207.207.0.212> References: <000201be990a$eb816100$3cb620d1@fauradon.mn.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990520183438.009e4850@popmail.voicenet.com> Does anybody have one for sale. gene@ehrich http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale Gene Ehrich PO Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 From a2k at one.net Thu May 20 17:45:08 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: <80256776.003E8E92.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: No, no, you're going about the whole thing wrong. Place them all facing fordward with shims and duct tape holding them in the right position! Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." -- DECWARS ____________________________________________________________________ | Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | | KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | | a2k@one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | |jlennon@nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 19 May 1999 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > > > >> The way to build a wall is to stack them not all the same way round. The > most > >> stable method is probably LRRLLRRLL..., but LRLRLR would probably work (L and > R > >> meaning Macs facing Left and Right respectively) > > > > LLRR wouldn't work. You'd have an unstable zigzag. LRLR is far more > > optimal. > > > LLRR definitely wouldn't work. But LRLR will still tend to stray from the > vertical because the sloping tops all slope the same way. That is why I > suggested LRRL. This zigzag reverses the sideways displacement that occurs in > each pair of layers, thus rising vertically and being therefore more stable than > LRLR. > > Philip. > > > > > From cfandt at netsync.net Thu May 20 19:06:13 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990519210752.00aed560@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990520193442.00ab0d10@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:31 PM 5/20/99 +0100, Tony Duell said something like: >[How to fix the most common Mac+ fault] > >> I had no intentions to fix the thing myself. This is a "Mac-free Zone" ;) > >Sure. However (and this will also apply to the next paragraph] I tend to >regard this list as a 'broadcast' rather than a 1-to-1 channel. Therefore >I was providing info not only for you if you wanted to keep the machine >but also so you could fix it for Paul if he wants it fixed, or for a list >member who gets this machine, or for a list member who happens to have a >Mac+ with a similar fault. Indeed that's the exact reason I said in the same paragraph that if one of the list members does get the machine then they should save your msg to help them check and repair the unit. > >Incidentally, I also _used_ to have a Mac-free zone. Then some kind >person gave me a couple of Mac+ machines with scanning probles (you >guessed it, dry joints. The local dealer had said they were beyond >repair...). And then somebody else was throwing out an LC.... I dare say that someday this may be true for me. At present, Macintosh machines of many types are as relatively common as house flies as Allison correctly puts it. When I cull out the collection(s) and can devote time to concentrate on learning about the Mac world I think I would pursue getting a system or two. Yes, this is a chance for me now if I take Paul's (if nobody has already) but I actually have a real serious space problem around here now and *must* start getting rid of some stuff. You'll see some of the computer-related items offered here. >Anyhow, you do say above that you're not a Mac person. So, presumably you >don't know the 'stock faults'... Not with the Macs. I really don't see or hear of that many Macintosh users around this town. That seems to correlate with the 10% to 15% of the computers (in USA) having been Apple products. It's somewhat less now as cheap PeeCees are upon us and folks, like my friend Paul and his wife for example, have gone over to the Wintel side (to the Dark Side ;). Frankly, I prefer the Motorola CPU architecture over what Intel came out with. Hence my anxious anticipation to hack on my DEC systems and work with my Motorola VMEbus systems (68k-based running OS-9/68k). However, the sheer numbers of Wintel machines which populated the planet because of IBM's marketing (and mktg of M$ and Lotus and etc. too) seemed to trample the poor old Mac when it came out. Apple didn't help their case by being so protective of their system (no cloning allowed except for a short period) and keeping prices up higher than equivalent PeeCee systems. This has been discussed before here I think. I don't need to do much bit twiddling at the hardware level, so I became just a lemming heading over the cliff with the rest of the Wintel bunch because of the relatively cheap applications and very many choices of hardware and third-party accessories. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From dogas at leading.net Thu May 20 19:15:52 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: new Heathkit computer site going up Message-ID: <01bea31f$167f2ea0$d8c962cf@devlaptop> I started a web publishing project for my Heathkit computer collection. Some cool pics I think of equipment and cards and docs. It will get better I hope and I welcome suggestions.... http://millennial-concepts.com/dogas/heath.html :) - Mike: dogas@leading.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 20 19:23:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990520193442.00ab0d10@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 20, 99 08:06:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1437 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990521/9eaf17af/attachment.ksh From manney at hmcltd.net Thu May 20 07:18:00 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Tossing Message-ID: <03c301bea2bc$7a815440$ea08fea9@fujitsu-c350> Does anyone have an (external) CD-ROM that wold work on a Macintosh Performa? (Apologies if Performas aren't >10 yrs. I don't know macs) Thanks manney@hmcltd.net P Manney "Y1K caused the Dark Ages." Thousands of discounted photo items at http://www.hmcltd.net/pgphoto From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu May 20 19:03:21 1999 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Mac Plus system & s/w available In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 20 May 1999 22:31:35 +0100 (BST) . Message-ID: In message , Tony Duell writes: >[How to fix the most common Mac+ fault] > >> I had no intentions to fix the thing myself. This is a "Mac-free Zone" ;) > >Sure. However (and this will also apply to the next paragraph] I tend to >regard this list as a 'broadcast' rather than a 1-to-1 channel. Therefore >I was providing info not only for you if you wanted to keep the machine >but also so you could fix it for Paul if he wants it fixed, or for a list >member who gets this machine, or for a list member who happens to have a >Mac+ with a similar fault. Thanks, and please keep it up. As it turns out my wife had a Mac+ that died with very similary symptoms. I had been keeping an eye out for a replacement analog board, but now that I know there's a common problem with a simple fix, I'll try to repair it myself. >And all of us, however knowledgeable, can get shocks. Ain't that the truth?! But my primary shock experience was with ham radio rather than classic computers, so I won't bore you with that here. Brian L. Stuart From marvin at rain.org Thu May 20 21:05:51 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Heathkit stuff References: <01bea31f$167f2ea0$d8c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: <3744BF7F.293CC19C@rain.org> I went down to Los Angeles today with a friend and visited ABEX Electronics. Out in the yard were at least one Radio Shack Model 2, and three Heathkit computers (H89 and perhaps the H19.) I gathered the prices were about $10 each, but I don't have the room right now. Perhaps someone in the LA area might be interested. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu May 20 23:26:42 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Great web museum! Message-ID: Check out this terrific web museum: The University of Virginia Computer Museum http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/museum.html Great site and an amazing collection! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 00:07:17 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Tossing In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at May 19, 99 11:14:46 pm Message-ID: >Of course I accept stuff from anybody :-) Thats what does me in. Future topic once I have time to dig into it, the cute little Unisys "micro" tower 386 that almost works someone gave to me. From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 00:15:30 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: sibscribe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Speaking of signing up to a new mailing list, MAX is here. A brand new, but fast growing list from the lowendmac people all about getting up and running with some flavor of UNIX on your mac. http://lowendmac.com/linux/max.shtml From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 00:53:34 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990520193442.00ab0d10@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at May 20, 99 08:06:13 pm Message-ID: I don't have a lack of space. I have a desire to remain married. ;) To that end I have been going vertical, shelving, the last frontier. I have about 10 of the typical plastic 6 foot shelf units, and I am currently eyeballing the mother of all shelves, the Gorilla Rack (a serious steel structure not ten cents different from the stuff Home Depot uses themselves, just shorter topping out at 8 feet). Here is a mini review and request for comments and suggestions. No Name Kmart brand Yuck, with very little weight this shelf unit is in serious trouble. Partially my fault, never, never, never, sit one of these on something else so that the four corner sections with the posts are not firmly supported. I sat mine on a huge tack box I deemed too large to move. The sag is so bad it looks like its melting. Contico Still yuck, but looks ok with "light" usage. Mine was fairly happy until I put a box of transformers on a upper shelf, then it got "weak" in the knees, but didn't fall over (yet). Zag The current top of the line at the CostCo reject discount store I frequent. At about $17 a pop its hard to complain, but I don't really care for the two adjustable shelves (since the reject store often has lost the locking rings). Rubbermaid King of the shelves, I just wish I could find more at a decent price. Sturdiest of the lot, I have one stacked high high high with a monitor on the top and all sorts of other junk with no wobbles. Shelves have a ridge around the outside to keep stuff from rolling off, there is a nice little "dish" in the front to put screws etc. in, and two handle grabber things on each side to hold a broom and or golf club. Generic Metal These have each corner made out of a metal V, and the shelves etc. all fasten to that via bolts. Stronger than it looks, and the mainstay of most serious shelf efforts. Gorilla Racks The same basic design used in commercial warehouse shelving, except in "lighter" 14 guage steel. A 6' x 6' x 1.5' unit with 3 shelves is $99 at Home Depot and requires two people to load the box (two big ones I bet). My neighbor went serious bananas on this, and bought several of the 6' tall and one double 8' (shelves share a common center support section). I want some of these pretty badly, but my lust for toys is at war with my cheapskate nature. Tomorrow is the show down. All of these, with the exception of the generic metal unit with all the nuts and bolts, take just a few minutes to put together, with a rubber mallet the only required assembly/disassembly tool required. From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 01:06:33 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: external mac scsi cdrom In-Reply-To: <03c301bea2bc$7a815440$ea08fea9@fujitsu-c350> Message-ID: >Does anyone have an (external) CD-ROM that wold work on a Macintosh >Performa? (Apologies if Performas aren't >10 yrs. I don't know macs) In order to boot from a scsi cdrom the drive has to have a Apple Rom inside it, which pretty much means Apple brand. OTOH you don't "have to" boot from the cdrom to use it "like" you booted from it. The secret is to put the driver software for the cdrom on a "disk tools" floppy and boot from the floppy, then use the cdrom "as if" you booted from it (of course you have to leave the floppy in and its slow when accessed). Using this technique any CDROM drive you can find a driver for will work, and the performa part isn't an issue AFAIK. Once the driver software is installed in the system folder on the boot hard drive usage of non-Apple CDROM drives isn't much of an issue either (normal non apple software fussy stuff like updates and conflicts especially with FWB stuff). Also putting any scsi cdrom drive into an external box isn't a big task either. All that said, yes I do have some external CDROM drives that would work, email me directly to find out more. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 21 01:29:11 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > Rubbermaid > King of the shelves, I just wish I could find more at a decent price. > Sturdiest of the lot, I have one stacked high high high with a monitor on > the top and all sorts of other junk with no wobbles. Shelves have a ridge > around the outside to keep stuff from rolling off, there is a nice little > "dish" in the front to put screws etc. in, and two handle grabber things on > each side to hold a broom and or golf club. > > Gorilla Racks > The same basic design used in commercial warehouse shelving, except in > "lighter" 14 guage steel. A 6' x 6' x 1.5' unit with 3 shelves is $99 at > Home Depot and requires two people to load the box (two big ones I bet). My > neighbor went serious bananas on this, and bought several of the 6' tall > and one double 8' (shelves share a common center support section). I want > some of these pretty badly, but my lust for toys is at war with my > cheapskate nature. Tomorrow is the show down. The plastic ones and the Gorilla Racks are by far the better choices (with the Gorilla Rack being the better of the two, although you pay for it). However, for a seriously big collection, the Gorilla's are just too costly. You should try looking around at surplus shops for the heavy duty steel shelving. Its old and ugly but it can hold 10 times the weight of a Gorilla rack, not that you'd need that much support. Look around at close-out sales, surplus shops, junk yards, businesses going out of business, etc. When Home Express (a nation-wide home furnishing store in the U.S.) went out of business a year and a half back, they sold everything in their stores including the fixtures. The racks they used for stored displays are superb Metro brand wire frame racks. They were selling 2' long x 4' wide by 5' high 4-shelf racks for $80 and half height for $50. Normal retail value on each is greater than $300. I bought two of the former and one of the latter, and am using them for my network closet in my upstairs office (allows cooling through the shelves, very sturdy, holds servers, UPS, voicemail system, misc. crap) and two are downstairs in the garage. For my warehouse I lucked into a great deal on about 1,500sqft of heavy duty steel shelving from a local electronics surplus shop that had an excess of it after they movied into a smaller location. The shelving had been sitting in their back warehouse for years taking up valuable space. Two people prior to myself made deals to haul it off but never followed through. I got the whole lot of shelving for $100! I had to spend another $100 at another surplus place for additional uprights, but $200 for 1,500sqft of heavy duty steel shelving is a crime. Once it is all erected it will form nine 18' lengths of shelving 5 shelves high. The downside is it mostly requires nuts & bolts, although some sections use quick install hardware (the shelf sits on a hanger hooked into the upright). So I suggest looking around until you find that good deal on shelving. The greater L.A. area surely has a bounty of cheap shelving somewhere, waiting for you to luck upon it. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu May 20 22:29:40 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Some finds In-Reply-To: <5b16a8a.2475ae7e@aol.com> Message-ID: <199905210729.DAA12792@smtp.interlog.com> On 20 May 99 at 14:29, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-05-20 13:21:03 EDT, you write: > > > > Something to check for on the Imagewriter II printers is the localtalk > > > option board. I just picked up 4 Imagewriter II's and 2 so far have the > > > boards, which triples the value of the printer. > > > > > > > > How can you tell ? I have the 8-pin mini-plug and under a plate on > top-rear > > is > > a F 10-pin socket of some kind. > > Look for appletalk cards in them? > > Bring small philips screwdriver. > > Lift 2 top covers .... one a narrow back strip .... then the big one > with smoked glass (or plastic) > > slide carriage all the way left and remove ribbon > > note 2 screws left and right in lower corner of opening > > back all way out and lift up front cover whis has wire attached > > Look inside on right ... board should have (front to back) 1 1/2 inch > connector or card mounted on it > > Thats it... card or no card .... pretty valuable > Thanks for the walkthru. Except for removing the Roller Dial(Handle?) it was spot on. Yes and there it lay; one Appletalk card with 4 large chips, one of them a Zilog. The screws were quite loose when I went to undo them and for a moment thought the original owner might have removed it for some reason. Thank you, I'm quite pleased. Now what can Appletalk do that's so special. I also have a Laserwriter ll NTX that will likely become my main printer ,so I guess the IW will stay with the llci which is a nice little machine and purportedly able to handle my Full Page Radius display. A nice writers trio. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 21 02:40:06 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:11 2005 Subject: Some finds In-Reply-To: <199905210729.DAA12792@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Now what can Appletalk do that's so special. I also have a > Laserwriter ll NTX that will likely become my main printer ,so I guess > the IW will stay with the llci which is a nice little machine and > purportedly able to handle my Full Page Radius display. A nice writers > trio. You can connect it to a Mac network, making it a network printer. So I guess its valuable for people who still use Imagewriter's as network printers in their Mac networks. For the other 99.999998% of the population they are worthless junk. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 03:05:25 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> Gorilla Racks >> The same basic design used in commercial warehouse shelving, except in >> "lighter" 14 guage steel. A 6' x 6' x 1.5' unit with 3 shelves is $99 at >> Home Depot and requires two people to load the box (two big ones I bet). My >> neighbor went serious bananas on this, and bought several of the 6' tall >> and one double 8' (shelves share a common center support section). I want >> some of these pretty badly, but my lust for toys is at war with my >> cheapskate nature. Tomorrow is the show down. > >The plastic ones and the Gorilla Racks are by far the better choices (with >the Gorilla Rack being the better of the two, although you pay for it). >However, for a seriously big collection, the Gorilla's are just too >costly. You should try looking around at surplus shops for the heavy duty >steel shelving. Its old and ugly but it can hold 10 times the weight of a >Gorilla rack, not that you'd need that much support. > >Look around at close-out sales, surplus shops, junk yards, businesses >going out of business, etc. When Home Express (a nation-wide home >furnishing store in the U.S.) went out of business a year and a half back, >they sold everything in their stores including the fixtures. The racks >they used for stored displays are superb Metro brand wire frame racks. >They were selling 2' long x 4' wide by 5' high 4-shelf racks for $80 and >half height for $50. Normal retail value on each is greater than $300. I Those metro racks are serious "commodity" items that everybody wants and the prices rarely drop below those you mention. I don't really have the space or arrangement to need rollers, so I have skipped them so far. I agree the steel shelving is old and ugly, but its made out of beer cans compared to the Gorilla Racks 14 guage steel. Either one will hold the sorts of things computer collectors will have, monitors, laser printers, boxes of books (ie one heck of a lot), but the Gorilla Rack is pretty close to current design heavy industrial shelving (I've seen them with shelves complete filled with lumber etc.). I wish I had the time to wait and see what I find, but last weekend the water heater started leaking and everything in the garage had to be moved to make room to change it out. My car has been on the street (against condo rules) for the last week, and won't be coming back inside until I have more shelves in place. Santa Ana has a huge place called Builders Surplus with two yards filled with used shelving, but the prices are around 60 to 75% of the new Home Depot price. I do agree it does seem a bit insane to buy $500 worth of shelving for $300 worth of old computer stuff, but at some point "time is money" and I need to move on to other things. From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 03:10:34 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Some finds In-Reply-To: <199905210729.DAA12792@smtp.interlog.com> References: <5b16a8a.2475ae7e@aol.com> Message-ID: > Now what can Appletalk do that's so special. I also have a Laserwriter ll NTX >that will likely become my main printer ,so I guess the IW will stay with the >llci which is a nice little machine and purportedly able to handle my Full >Page >Radius display. A nice writers trio. Well it makes it a "network" printer that you don't have to tie to just one system. If that is no advantage I would take it out and sell the option card (printer turns back into a normal serial without it), last one I got $40 for. From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 03:54:00 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Cromemco software, unix V etc. In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at May 19, 99 Message-ID: I would like to see these discs getting into some good hands ASAP. The first reasonable offer will take them. Offers of postage only will be cheerfully ignored, since I did have to pay for them as well as dig them out of a bin. I made a second trip to the thrift store today, and seriously rifled through all the shelves, racks, and bins remotely in the same area as the floppy discs I found yesterday. Without even a further loss of blood I turned up five more plastic bags of Cromemco floppies, and left little I hope behind. Here is what I have in total. The following are all original Cromemco floppies with matching sleeves. Unix system V Unix -XS release 4.0 serial number 10051, disc's 1 thru 30. Unix -XS release 1 serial number 10092, disc's 4 thru 30. 68000 CROMIX-PLUS (151) CRO-PLUS-XCS release 7 serial number 10038, disc's 1 thru 9 Cromix-Plus Operating System CRO-PLUS-XCS release 1 serial number 10170, disc's 1 & 2 Cromix-Plus (31.05) CRO-PLUS-XCS release 5 serial number 10178, disc's 1 thru 4 68000 Pascal PAS-DS release 6 serial number 10058, disc 1 & 2 68000 Cromix Operating System CRO-XS release 2 serial number 10115, disc 2 & 3 Cromix-Plus (31.40) CRO-PLUS-XCS release 6 serial number 10730, disc 7 & 8 SpellMaster FontMaster PlanMaster SlideMaster TeleMaster serial number 0-10007 stamped preliminary SDI Graphics Software model SGS-S SDI Demo Disc Standalone Utiliies The next group of floppies are original, but not from Cromemco. MicroPro ReportStar version 1.02 DataStar version 1.41 WordStar version 3.30 CalcStar version 1.45 dBASE II version 2.3B serial number 13229, Cromemco 5" format dBASE II version 2.3B demo disc, Cromemco 5" format PMI Repertoire for Modula-2, looks like a sampler or demo with a letter. The last group are all copies on various brands of media LEX Cromemco Elaine's Master Disk Cromemco DiskMaster (Master) 68000 C release 4 Disk 1 & 2 68000 PAS rel 6 Disk 1 C-10 PROCALL PROCALL rev 5 C-10 SuperSoft ADA CPM80 V3.0 14 Jun 84 WordPlus Ver 2.0 Cromix Disk 1983 FTAX DATA 1984 TAX DATA DB4 System #1, #3, #4, and #5 (4 floppies). I've tried to get everything correct, but what you get is what you get. About half the last group don't have sleeves, and a few of the labels have that oily look to them, but in general all the floppies look pretty good. The first group looking very good all with write protect tabs on the floppies. Any questions please email me directly unless it is of merit to the whole list. From apolon at triada.bg Sun May 23 06:29:51 1999 From: apolon at triada.bg (Milko Harizanov) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: offer Message-ID: <002801bea50f$9574b9e0$d4e70cc2@p> Apolon Ltd. P.O. BOX 303, 9000 Varna, Bulgaria Tel: + 359-52-221168, Fax: +359-52-600034 e-mail: apolon@triada.bg Dear Sirs, My company had organize software group. I should like offer you to perform a contract with your company. If you wish to order me some software application task - I am ready to execute your commission. I am ready to make any your task and will give (send) you the made software applicationtion until you convince of the best completed. If you have some interest im my offer, please inform me. I await your conditions for jointly job. Thank you very much Best regards: Milko Harizanov President -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990523/62c45eb2/attachment.html From ss at allegro.com Fri May 21 13:10:54 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <"l03102802b36a9d74172f(a)(091)208.135.14.17(093)*"@MHS> References: Message-ID: <199905211810.LAA42120@bart.allegro.com> Re: > about 10 of the typical plastic 6 foot shelf units, and I am currently > eyeballing the mother of all shelves, the Gorilla Rack (a serious steel ... > request for comments and suggestions. I prefer Gorilla racks. I've bought/installed some of the plastic units out there, and find two severe problems: 1) most have shelves that are NOT simple flat surfaces. Instead, they're often some kind of exposed honeycomb (or other grid). This has two drawbacks: (a) if you put small parts on the shelf, they can drop through; (b) you can't slide units that have legs or other protuberances. 2) the "heavy duty" plastic shelfs that I've used (Rubbermaid?) start to bow under the weight of some computers Stan From ss at allegro.com Fri May 21 13:18:23 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Great web museum! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905211818.LAA33503@bart.allegro.com> Sam writes: > Check out this terrific web museum: > The University of Virginia Computer Museum > http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/museum.html Thanks...they've improved a lot since I last posted about them to this list. :) To be fair, the URL I posted was: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/images/manuals However, my caution remains true: some of their pages take forever to download, because they've got large numbers of BIG jpegs! But...worth it! My favorite is http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/images/manuals/b5000/descrip/descrip.html where the fist picture is the cover page of a manual with two handwritten notes: "Rare Manual" and "Do not steal" BTW, the pages on that link provide an excellent description of a truly advanced machine! Stan (ex-Burroughs :) Sieler From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri May 21 13:47:21 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: good excuse to run classic computers Message-ID: <199905211847.MAA21570@calico.litterbox.com> Here's a thought. If you've got classic computers you'd love to run but can't think of anything to DO with them, (and they speak unix) go to http://setiathome.ssi.berkeley.edu and make your computer's idle cycles part of the SETI search for extraterrestrial life. They download you a chunk of data from the Arecebo radio telescope and your computer spends its idle time running analysis on that chunk, then sends the results back. They keep track of what platforms people are using too. Wouldn't it be cool if the machine that finally found a real ET signal turned out to be a Vax 11/780 sitting in some collector's garage? They also have it as a screensaver for mac and windows, too. For reference, a "work unit" - about 300k of data all told - will take about 20 hours to process on my PII/300 machine assuming I let it run continuously. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri May 21 13:58:32 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: good excuse to run classic computers Message-ID: <31b61aa4.247706d8@aol.com> In a message dated 5/21/99 1:49:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jim@calico.litterbox.com writes: > Here's a thought. > > If you've got classic computers you'd love to run but can't think of > anything > to DO with them, (and they speak unix) go to http://setiathome.ssi.berkeley. > edu > and make your computer's idle cycles part of the SETI search for > extraterrestrial life. They download you a chunk of data from the Arecebo > radio telescope and your computer spends its idle time running analysis on > that chunk, then sends the results back. I believe distributed.net has a similar premise where just about any computer could help crack some encryption algorithm. They had client software for many operating systems including my favourite, OS/2. Even xt based machines could help out by running dos based client software. david From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri May 21 14:12:18 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: good excuse to run classic computers In-Reply-To: <199905211847.MAA21570@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at May 21, 99 12:47:21 pm Message-ID: <199905211912.MAA14798@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1262 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990521/e106f696/attachment.ksh From peter at joules.enterprise-plc.com Fri May 21 14:13:42 1999 From: peter at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: good excuse to run classic computers References: <199905211847.MAA21570@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <001301bea3be$0ef3e050$b5c348c2@DROOPY> | For reference, a "work unit" - about | 300k of data all told - will take about 20 hours to process on my PII/300 | machine assuming I let it run continuously. | -- My first work unit took 102 hours on my P133, my second looks as if it will take around 80. I will look at distributed.net to see waht they havve on offer. It's a pity that there isnt a seti@home client for SunOS 4 otherwise my 386i could be kept busy. Regards Pete From max82 at surfree.com Fri May 21 13:52:06 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: >themselves, just shorter topping out at 8 feet). Here is a mini review and >request for comments and suggestions. >No Name Kmart brand >Yuck, with very little weight this shelf unit is in serious trouble. I have a bunch of these in use for newspapers, letters, etc. They refuse to stay assembled in most cases. >Generic Metal >These have each corner made out of a metal V, and the shelves etc. all >fasten to that via bolts. Stronger than it looks, and the mainstay of most >serious shelf efforts. I used to have one of these, and while it stayed intact, the metal shelf sagged in the middle so it looked more like a hammock. This made it rather difficult to stack anything. Whatever happened to wood/plywood? It is fairly cheap, since you don't really need top quality wood, and you can easily shape it to any length/width you want. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From max82 at surfree.com Fri May 21 13:56:21 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Some finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >You can connect it to a Mac network, making it a network printer. So I >guess its valuable for people who still use Imagewriter's as network >printers in their Mac networks. For the other 99.999998% of the >population they are worthless junk. There do exist adapters to connect them to a regular Ethernet or serial port. They are likely to be found at any place that has a lot of macs. They might still be available new, as a matter of fact. I know Dayna and Asante made them, probably other companies as well. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri May 21 15:00:42 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Some finds In-Reply-To: from Max Eskin at "May 21, 1999 02:56:21 pm" Message-ID: <199905212000.UAA16210@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >You can connect it to a Mac network, making it a network printer. So I > >guess its valuable for people who still use Imagewriter's as network > >printers in their Mac networks. For the other 99.999998% of the > >population they are worthless junk. > > There do exist adapters to connect them to a regular Ethernet or serial > port. They are likely to be found at any place that has a lot of macs. > They might still be available new, as a matter of fact. I know Dayna and > Asante made them, probably other companies as well. > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > Or if you can find a IIf or IIg motherboard for that printer, it will have ethertalk built in, as well as level 2 postscript. -Lawrence LeMay From max82 at surfree.com Fri May 21 14:00:19 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: good excuse to run classic computers In-Reply-To: <31b61aa4.247706d8@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: >I believe distributed.net has a similar premise where just about any computer >could help crack some encryption algorithm. Premise may be right. Has anyone proven that this provides faster results? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 12:45:09 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 20, 99 10:53:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1776 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990521/9a553c89/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 21 12:50:56 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 20, 99 11:29:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 412 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990521/74346da6/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at freegate.com Fri May 21 16:01:34 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: TK70 cartridges? Message-ID: <4.1.19990521135929.03cacd80@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Hi Everyone, I've got my TK70 up and running on my uVAX but haven't been able to find a lot of cartridges for it. Several TK50 carts, but no TK70. Imation stopped producing them! So if you know anyone who is decommissioning a large VAX installation that might have a few dozen of these let me know. I'm interested in keeping the media alive for a while at least! --Chuck From dogas at leading.net Fri May 21 17:30:51 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: new Heathkit site Message-ID: <01bea3d9$955a33e0$cdc962cf@devlaptop> Well... Its a day later and version 2.0 is online. New pictures, new links. Check out the eta-3400. http://millennial-concepts.com/dogas/heath.html Thanks Sellam. I'm going to let it free form for awhile. :) - Mike: dogas@leading.net From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 18:27:49 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Whatever happened to wood/plywood? It is fairly cheap, since you don't >really need top quality wood, and you can easily shape it to any >length/width you want. Good idea, I'll stop by Ikea and see what they have. ;) Perhaps you would see the humor of your suggestion if you looked at some of my previous constructions in wood. My carpenter fatherinlaw about busted a gut when he looked at a door I made. Lesson one, doors don't make a good first project. Lesson two, in addition to a saw and hammer, a plumb and square are usefull tools. From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 21 18:29:11 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Some finds In-Reply-To: <199905212000.UAA16210@thorin.cs.umn.edu> References: from Max Eskin at "May 21, 1999 02:56:21 pm" Message-ID: >> On Fri, 21 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> >You can connect it to a Mac network, making it a network printer. So I >> >guess its valuable for people who still use Imagewriter's as network >> >printers in their Mac networks. For the other 99.999998% of the >> >population they are worthless junk. >> >> There do exist adapters to connect them to a regular Ethernet or serial >> port. They are likely to be found at any place that has a lot of macs. >> They might still be available new, as a matter of fact. I know Dayna and >> Asante made them, probably other companies as well. > >Or if you can find a IIf or IIg motherboard for that printer, it will >have ethertalk built in, as well as level 2 postscript. From jlwest at tseinc.com Fri May 21 20:00:02 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: IBM available... Message-ID: <000901bea3ee$6dbe8920$0101a8c0@jay> A company I do some work with just showed me their old system that they want someone to cart off. From what I saw (and I'm not familiar at all with somewhat recent IBM's), it appears to be a system/36. There is a floorstanding deskside size cpu enclosure, two or three smaller enclosures (same dimensions as cpu except about 8 inches tall), and a system console with a really huge base on it. IIRC, the system said IBM 5655 or something close to that on the front. They swear the system is in full working order. I have no interest in this period of IBM so.... It's in St. Louis, MO, USA if anyone is interested just let me know via email. Jay West From jruschme at jruschme.dyn.ml.org Fri May 21 20:12:09 1999 From: jruschme at jruschme.dyn.ml.org (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: good excuse to run classic computers In-Reply-To: <199905211847.MAA21570@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "May 21, 99 12:47:21 pm" Message-ID: <199905220112.VAA27969@jruschme.dyn.ml.org> > Here's a thought. > > If you've got classic computers you'd love to run but can't think of anything > to DO with them, (and they speak unix) go to http://setiathome.ssi.berkeley.edu > and make your computer's idle cycles part of the SETI search for > extraterrestrial life. They download you a chunk of data from the Arecebo > radio telescope and your computer spends its idle time running analysis on > that chunk, then sends the results back. > > They keep track of what platforms people are using too. Wouldn't it be > cool if the machine that finally found a real ET signal turned out to be > a Vax 11/780 sitting in some collector's garage? They also have it as a > screensaver for mac and windows, too. For reference, a "work unit" - about > 300k of data all told - will take about 20 hours to process on my PII/300 > machine assuming I let it run continuously. The down side is that the Seti@Home clients seem to have some pretty stiff computer requirements. The Windows version (presumably Win32) requires 32mb memory and an 800x600 display, the Mac version requires a PowerPC, and the Unix version only seems to be ported to Alpha, x86 and Sparc. In comparison, the Distributed.Net clients have been ported to more "vintage" hardware/OS combos. Pity... I philosophically would rather find ETs than enccryption keys. <<>> From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 21 20:13:59 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > Whatever happened to wood/plywood? It is fairly cheap, since you don't > really need top quality wood, and you can easily shape it to any > length/width you want. a) wood is not as cheap as you think b) its a lot of work A 2x4 and plywood rack the size of two Gorilla racks side by side would cost about 80 dollars in wood and nails and brackets. It will cost you about 6 hours worth of time to saw the wood and nail it together if you are not an experienceed carpenter. It will weigh a lot and will be a bitch to tear down if you ever wanted to move it somewhere else. I know all this from experience. Its better to buy Gorilla racks. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From max82 at surfree.com Fri May 21 19:41:41 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: >first project. Lesson two, in addition to a saw and hammer, a plumb and >square are usefull tools. I have yet to learn this myself :) I'm sure you will be able to get it cut to the size you need at the store for a small extra fee. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From max82 at surfree.com Fri May 21 19:43:39 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >It will weigh a lot and will be a bitch to tear down if you ever wanted to >move it somewhere else. > >I know all this from experience. Its better to buy Gorilla racks. Well, you're talking about a warehouse situation. I'm thinking of a garage or a basement of moderate dimensions. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 21 20:51:14 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > >first project. Lesson two, in addition to a saw and hammer, a plumb and > >square are usefull tools. > > I have yet to learn this myself :) > I'm sure you will be able to get it cut to the size you need at the store > for a small extra fee. Yeah, usually fifty cents a cut, but this brings up another point: how do you get it all home? I'm lucky to drive a 4-door Honda Civic with the ability to put the back seat down so I can get long sections into the car. But other people may not have such an accomodating vehicle. If you need to have the wood deliver that's another factor, unless you want to go bug the neighbor to borrow his pickup truck. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 21 20:52:06 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >It will weigh a lot and will be a bitch to tear down if you ever wanted to > >move it somewhere else. > > > >I know all this from experience. Its better to buy Gorilla racks. > > Well, you're talking about a warehouse situation. I'm thinking of a garage > or a basement of moderate dimensions. Still. Oh well, you need to experience it for yourself firsthand in order to understand. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From a2k at one.net Fri May 21 21:04:03 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > It will cost you about 6 hours worth of time to saw the wood and nail it > together if you are not an experienceed carpenter. > > It will weigh a lot and will be a bitch to tear down if you ever wanted to > move it somewhere else. > I can testify to this. I'm not an 'experienced carpenter' (yet.. I really love woodworking, even if it is just building shelves and the like...) I'm Production Manager for my high schools's drama department (this means that I'm the person that builds and moves all the sets around) so I have a fairly good idea how to build things... my father, unfortunately, does not. When we moved into this house, he thought it would be a good idea to have some shelves to store boxes on... great idea. Unfortunately, he apparently had no idea whatsoever how to go about this. We're moving again now and my parents said I could have the lumber to build new shelves for my area in the basement. I took apart the shelves... two of them... in about four hours... not much fun. My dad has the nasty tendancy when a nail gets slightly bent to hammer it into the wood sideways... a realy bitch to try to get out.. (I'm building the next with screws!) And it also wasn't much fun hauling 24 32"x24" plywood boards up the stairs... then the 8 6' 2x4s... oh well. Kevin From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri May 21 21:36:21 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <990521223621.216000ad@trailing-edge.com> On Fri, 21 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >It will weigh a lot and will be a bitch to tear down if you ever wanted to > >move it somewhere else. > > > >I know all this from experience. Its better to buy Gorilla racks. > > Well, you're talking about a warehouse situation. I'm thinking of a garage > or a basement of moderate dimensions. Then I would think that portability and movability would be even more important considerations. The "prefab" steel-and-particle-board shelf units available out there are excellent deals. Easy to set up, easy to knock down, easy to move, and they don't cost any more than the raw materials would cost you if you decided to roll it entirely yourself. And there are a lot of brands available other than Gorilla. Take a look in the Grainger or MSC catalogs to see a really wide range of choices. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From allisonp at world.std.com Fri May 21 22:09:10 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <199905220309.AA27525@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > As someone that has done considerable wood work, Pop was a carpenter, I > know how to buy materials and use basic tools to make nice looking stuff. > Anywho, for 80$ I'd build a long wall of wood racks. Why? The average > racks are way overbuilt. Using 3/8" or maybe 1/2" plywood or OSB is good > and 2x4s for uprights are adaquate but 1/2 or 1/3 pine straping is good > for the rest and very cheap. If carefully done using screws appearance and > disassembly should not be a problem. I used 5/8" plywood and 2x4 all around mounted vertically for extra support for the shelves. I would not use anything less. Try sticking a couple S-100 chassis on a shelf of 1/2" plywood or supported with less than a 2x4 and unless you have additional support in the way of diagonal cross-members or extra support underneath the shelf it'll bow or break. Maybe not right away, but with time it'll start to sag. It saves much time to use steel brackets instead of cutting slots into the wood. I did my first shelf with the latter design and it took a long time, was kinda frustrating to get it together, and was not as sturdy as I would have wanted, but was still more than adequate. On my second attempt I used metal braces to support the cross members and found it to be much easier to erect and ever stronger than the other method. If I had to do it over I'd buy pre-fab shelves like the Gorilla racks. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From nerdware at laidbak.com Fri May 21 22:54:20 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199905220354.WAA28572@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Max Eskin To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers I have been using black enameled wire shelving. I'm used to the stainless variety (I managed restaurants for 15 years -- can't beat wire shelving), but stainless is obnoxioiusly expensive. The local Menard's and Lowe's offers units by Wirecraft that come in white, chrome or black. 4 18x48 shelves with 74" posts runs around $80, and is easy to configure and assemble and will hold a hell of a lot (375lbs per shelf) without sagging. You can also get casters and individual components to customize and installation. I've got one with an entire bottom shelf of Kaypros and an IBM portable, a second shelf chock full o' Macs, a third shelf piled high with old Kilobauds, Bytes, and Dr. Dobbs; and the top shelf holds a bunch of Commies and a couple of portable Tandys. Absolutely no sign of stress. Plus, they look nice. Even my wife approved. Paul > On Thu, 20 May 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > >themselves, just shorter topping out at 8 feet). Here is a mini review and > >request for comments and suggestions. > > >No Name Kmart brand > >Yuck, with very little weight this shelf unit is in serious trouble. > > I have a bunch of these in use for newspapers, letters, etc. They refuse > to stay assembled in most cases. > > >Generic Metal > >These have each corner made out of a metal V, and the shelves etc. all > >fasten to that via bolts. Stronger than it looks, and the mainstay of most > >serious shelf efforts. > > I used to have one of these, and while it stayed intact, the metal shelf > sagged in the middle so it looked more like a hammock. This made it rather > difficult to stack anything. > > Whatever happened to wood/plywood? It is fairly cheap, since you don't > really need top quality wood, and you can easily shape it to any > length/width you want. > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri May 21 23:36:38 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: FW: Floppy drive model numbers Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990521213638.00939100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> If anyone can help this fellow, please E-mail him directly. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- >From: Paul Barton >To: "'kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com'" >Subject: Scrounging >Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:06:38 -0700 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) > >I am interested in getting a list of floppy drive model numbers for all >types of floppies, 5.25 and 3.5" Mostly interested in finding model numbers >for 360K and 720K drives only, while weeding out the rest. > >Got any ideas? > >Paul T. Barton >pbarton@or.us.delta-corp.com >idezilla@excite.com > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 21 23:45:47 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <199905220354.WAA28572@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Paul Braun wrote: > I have been using black enameled wire shelving. I'm used to the > stainless variety (I managed restaurants for 15 years -- can't beat > wire shelving), but stainless is obnoxioiusly expensive. The local > Menard's and Lowe's offers units by Wirecraft that come in white, > chrome or black. 4 18x48 shelves with 74" posts runs around $80, and That's a great deal. > is easy to configure and assemble and will hold a hell of a lot > (375lbs per shelf) without sagging. You can also get casters and > individual components to customize and installation. I've got one with > an entire bottom shelf of Kaypros and an IBM portable, a second shelf > chock full o' Macs, a third shelf piled high with old Kilobauds, > Bytes, and Dr. Dobbs; and the top shelf holds a bunch of Commies and a > couple of portable Tandys. Absolutely no sign of stress. Plus, they > look nice. Even my wife approved. I can attest to their strength and sturdiness. On one rack I must've had over 1000 pounds of crap and it showed no signs of failing, although rocking it back and forth was a little scary. I had several IMSAI's, a Sol 20, dual 8" disk drive chassis, terminals, PCs, and other crap. I'll reiterate that the wire mesh racks are a great choice if they can be found for cheap, and I agree they look good. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri May 21 19:56:57 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: TCPIP via ethernet under DOS? (I know that is possible...but!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199905220450.AAA10297@mail.cgocable.net> Here is I have this: Cable modem, few classic and (few not so-classic) machines w/ ethernet cards, DOS. Got drivers for netcards alright except: What s/w is needed to do the ip polling to gather in ip numbers on outset of connecting to cablemodem? Is there's an good FAQ on this? I have seen the FAQ's for dos and ppp, TCPIP setup by modem is easily found by net searches but I'm not able to find any on this premises I'm looking for. Ever there's is a FTP program for DOS at all as well? WHY? I had enough troubles with win9x's file mangler when d/ling linux files and fragile files that breaks (once in a while). Ram is no problem, I can choose any machines and/or add more than 1MB. :-) I'm aware of web browsers for DOS but I dunno know what they're capable of as I outlined here. I have heard of Pmail 3.40 and Arachne solution by popping by pmail these to be sent files in correct location for Arachne to pick up and send it and vice vesa. Again, that's partially ppp but I wanted to know if Arachne does it themselves too? It would be nice if there is a addon that works with pmail so I don't have to depend on arachne for both ways. (Remember each of two have to run seperately). Is there's a good email for DOS that still meets standards that pmail does? Ditto mime and uueneoded attachments. I seems to sound like newbie, yeah it is! Wizard From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 22 00:22:29 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Tektronix 31 programmable calculator Message-ID: Does anyone (Philip?) have any general information on the Tektronix 31 programmable calculator? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 22 01:01:08 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Tektronix 31 programmable calculator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Does anyone (Philip?) have any general information on the Tektronix 31 > programmable calculator? Rick Bensene has an excellent site: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510/tek31.html Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From marvin at rain.org Sat May 22 01:36:07 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier References: <199905220354.WAA28572@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <37465057.8621DC24@rain.org> Paul Braun wrote: > > I have been using black enameled wire shelving. I'm used to the stainless > variety (I managed restaurants for 15 years -- can't beat wire shelving), but > stainless is obnoxioiusly expensive. The local Menard's and Lowe's offers units > by Wirecraft that come in white, chrome or black. 4 18x48 shelves with 74" > posts runs around $80, and is easy to configure and assemble and will hold a > hell of a lot (375lbs per shelf) without sagging. You can also get casters and I sure agree with this!!! I have one 24" x 48" in stainless with three shelves that I have been using for quite a few years. This one came from an auction at Lobo drives when they closed down, and is loaded mainly with luggables (Kaypro, Osborne, Corona, Compaq, etc.) and there is no sign of sag. However I also have a number of Gorilla shelves, and I like them a lot although the wood is only about 3/8" - 1/2" thick. This creates the problem of sag, but with care in arranging stuff on the shelves, they work pretty good and are very fast to put up. From mikeford at netwiz.net Sat May 22 02:40:32 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> >I know all this from experience. Its better to buy Gorilla racks. >> >> Well, you're talking about a warehouse situation. I'm thinking of a garage >> or a basement of moderate dimensions. > >Still. > >Oh well, you need to experience it for yourself firsthand in order to >understand. 8 foot tall Gorilla Racks are, sniff, beautiful. They beckon you to load them up with lots and lots of heavy stuff, and reduce otherwise strutting rival males to envy normally possible only via expensive automobiles. Yeah, makes you yearn for a forklift. ;) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 22 03:14:08 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! Message-ID: Hello all. This year at the VCF we're opening up the exhibition, and changing it into a computer faire. Want to show off your prized vintage computer artifact? What better way than to exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival! What's more, your exhibit can win you a ribbon in any of 11 different categories, and the best exhibit will walk away with the coveted Best of Show award and some fabulous prizes! What should you exhibit? Your best looking, most interesting, most complete, most well researched vintage computer artifact. Read the full rules below for information on what judging will entail. The ambition of this competition is to advance the hobby of collecting, preserving and documenting vintage computers, and you'll see that reflected in the competition rules. Have questions? Please e-mail me or post your question to the list if you think it is applicable to the general audience. You have more than four months to prepare your winning exhibit, so don't procrastinate. Get going! VCF 3.0 is being held October 2nd and 3rd at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, California. VCF 3.0 Computer Faire Rules ============================ 1) Each entrant shall enter no more than 2 entries for one class and no more than 4 entries combined in all classes for competiton. Computers entered for display only are not eligible for awards and their inclusion in the exhibit is at the discretion of the organizer. Each entrant shall pre-register their exhibit and pay a $10 registration fee due by September 17, 1999. Entrants failing to submit their registration and fee will not be eligible to participate in the Faire, however exceptions may be made for individual circumstances. 2) Each competitor's entry shall be entered in only one of the following classes: a) Home-brew, kit, or educational computer - Any vintage b) Manufactured microcomputer - Pre 1981 c) Manufactured microcomputer - Post 1981 d) Mini-computer or larger system - Any vintage e) Other 3) In each class, Best of Class, 2nd of Class, and 3rd of Class prizes will be awarded. If less than three entries are present in a class, the awards are at the discretion of the judges. 4) Each competiton entry, regardless of it having received any other award is eligible to compete for any of the following special awards: Best Presentation Awards a) Best Presentation Category - Display b) Best Presentation Category - Research c) Best Presentation Category - Completeness d) Best Presentation Category - Creative Integration with Contemporary Technology Best Preservation Awards a) Best Preservation Category - Restoration b) Best Preservation Category - Recreation c) Best Preservation Category - Simulation d) Best Preservation Category - Original Condition e) Best Preservation Category - Obscurity Best Technology Awards a) Best Technology Category - Analog b) Best Technology Category - Non-Electronic People's Choice Award 5) Each competitor will be given a date and time at which a panel of judges will examine the entry. The examination is limited to no more than 10 minutes. The entrant or an authorized representative must be present at the time given. If nobody is present, the judges will notify the entrant of a substitute time at which they will return. If nobody is present at that point in time, the entry is disqualified. 6) Only class winners or special award winners are eligible for the Best of Show award. Each winner will be given a new time to make their computer available for a repeated inspection for the Best of Show award. 7) The panel of judges will consist of three individuals. The judging will take place as a joint activity between the the judges. Any judging decision will have to have at least a two thirds majority. 8) Each computer will start judging by having a perfect score of 30 points, five points each in the following catagories. The judges will then subtract points in each catagory according to their judging guidelines of which examples are given below. - Appearance and Condition - Authenticity - System Completeness - Functionality - Documentation - Software a) Appearance and Condition The judges can deduct points for any flaw in appearance and condition. Lack of functionality or non-original parts do not influence the score in this catagory unless it changes the appearance of the computer. b) Originality and Authenticity The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this category. Any consumables do not have to be authentic. Any item that has questionable authenticity or originalty needs to have supporting documentation. c) System Completeness The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is incomplete. A complete computer is one that includes the peripherals that were originally used on the computer or typical peripherals that would have been used with the computer if applicable. d) Functionality The judges can deduct points for any lack of functionality of the complete computer as presented. This includes any aspect of hardware or software. Original malfunction of the computer does not lead to point deduction. A non-operational main processor will result in zero points in this category. e) Documentation The judges can deduct points for incomplete, missing, or poor condition documentation. Any documentation that was originally delivered with the computer or otherwise obtained is being judged. Any documentation relating to the design, construction, manufacture, or delivery of the computer can be included. Third party documentation is acceptable if no original documentation is known to exist. Third party documentation can be beneficial if they go beyond the standard documentation of the computer. Reprints or later editions of documentation will result in point deduction. Documentation of research conducted pertinent to the entry will be considered. f) Software The judges can deduct points for the lack of software for the computer, if applicable. In order to score any points, the essential software to operate the computer is required to be functional. Any software that has been developed for the computer either at the time of computer development or at any later point will be considered, as will be supporting documentation. The software does not have to be run from the original media. Original media will be beneficial though and can be asked to be demonstrated. 9) The judges will not operate the entry. The person exhibiting the computer will be asked to start the computer, demonstrate the functionality, the available software, and to show the documentation. Any reasonable request by the judges to demonstrate operation has to be fulfilled by the person showing the computer. 10) The judges will ask the person showing the computer to open or disassemble the computer for inspection of major components within reasonable limits. 11) If for any reason the person showing the entry can not fulfill a request of a judge due to a malfunction or any lack of software, documentation, or other, the entrant will be given an opportunity to interrupt the inspection once and postpone completion to a later point in time during the judging period. 12) At the end of the event at an announced place and time, the awards will be given to the entrant or a representative. If the prize recipient cannot receive the award in person, all shipping and handling charges will have to be covered by the entrant. Should a person not be present to claim the prize, the awards shall be held for claim by the organizer for no later than November 1, 1999. After that date the prize will be withheld and will not be re-awarded. Any questions or comments? Please send them to sellam@vintage.org or post them to the list if they are universally applicable. I hope to see lots of people participate in this year's Computer Faire!! Remember, this is your chance to show off that favorite part of your computer collection to all your friends and colleagues. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/20/99] From cfandt at netsync.net Sat May 22 08:14:54 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Tektronix 31 programmable calculator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19990522090632.00aa11f0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:22 PM 5/21/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail said something like: > >Does anyone (Philip?) have any general information on the Tektronix 31 >programmable calculator? Hi Sellam, I've got an Operating Manual, however, it's in French. Probably came out of Quebec Province I would figure. Need info from it? Actually, I'd like to swap it for an English one if any of the French-speaking folks in the world have an English TEK 31 manual. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From cube at msn.fullfeed.com Sat May 22 07:54:12 1999 From: cube at msn.fullfeed.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Atari help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905221317.IAA06541@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com> Do you have any other Atari "bus" devices you can try (modem/serial port, another disk, ...)? The next step in diagnosing your problem would be to determine whether the problem is the Atari 800 itself, the disk drive or the cable. Divide and conquer! Jay At 05:25 PM 5/16/99 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, I've been playing with my Atari 800 a bit, and the frustrating >thing is I can't get the disk drive to work. When the drive is on and with >a disk in it (is spins itself up alright) and turn on the computer, it >doesn't try to read the disk (my last Atari, and 800XL I think.. did). In >BASIC, any disk command (XIO, open, load, save, etc) give me an error that >I looked up and means something to the effect of 'drive not present'. I've >tried several utilities (myutil) on my PC to write the disks with mydos or >ataridos, but I don't know if they're working as I can't write or read any >disks. > >Any ideas, please? > >Thanks, > >Kevin > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > After sifting through the overwritten remaining blocks of Luke's >home directory, Luke and PDP-1 sped away from /u/lars, across the surface >of the Winchester riding Luke's flying read/write head. PDP-1 had Luke stop >at the edge of the cylinder overlooking /usr/spool/uucp. > "Unix-to-Unix Copy Program;" said PDP-1. "You will never find a >more wretched hive of bugs and flamers. We must be cautious." > -- DECWARS > ____________________________________________________________________ >| Kevin Stewart | "I am a secret | >| KC8BLL ----------| Wrapped in a mystery -Milford High School | >| a2k@one.net | Wrapped in an enigma Drama Tech Dept. | >|jlennon@nether.net| And drizzled in some tasty chocolate stuff.| > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection Jay.Jaeger@msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube From rickb at pail.enginet.com Sat May 22 09:11:12 1999 From: rickb at pail.enginet.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Tektronix 31 programmable calculator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101bea45c$f23d4240$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> > > Does anyone (Philip?) have any general information on the Tektronix 31 > programmable calculator? > I have one listed on my Old Calculator Web Museum at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510/tek31.html I have an English operators manual. If anyone has questions about operation of the machine, I'd be glad to look stuff up, but the format of the manual, and its age would make it very difficult to copy or scan. Rick Bensene The Old Calculators Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510 From Historical at aol.com Sat May 22 09:10:39 1999 From: Historical at aol.com (Historical@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Free Apple ][s and Mac Pluses! Message-ID: <766c32ac.247814df@aol.com> Hi there, just thought I would pass this on. As of late last night, this person still had no takers. He has for free - if you pick up - the following: 25+ Apple II+ or IIe CPUs, 2 green screens, 3 color monitors, at least 10 5.25 drives, a couple of 3.5 drives, many A2 I/O cards, 2 or 3 IIc CPUs, monitors, and various accessories, a half-dozen Mac Plus/SE CPUs, 4 Mac II CPUs, a Mac IIci CPU, a B&W Mac monitor, 6 various modems, 4 or 5 Imagewriter printers, a couple of boxes of assorted cables, and several boxes of assorted Apple II and early Mac software. Location: Plainwell, MI 49080. Write: leblasmith@aol.com Best, David Greelish Classic Computing Press www.classiccomputing.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 22 09:29:14 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <199905221429.AA03669@world.std.com> Dear Future Associate, You Can Work At Home & Set Your Own Hours. Start earning Big Money in a short time NO Newspaper Advertising! Your job will be to stuff and mail envelopes for our company. You will receive $.25 for each and every envelope you stuff and mail out. Just follow our simple instructions and you will be making money as easy as 1… 2… 3 For example stuff and mail 200 envelopes and you will receive $50.00. Stuff and mail 1000 and you will receive $250.00. Stuff and mail 2000 and you will receive $500.00 and more Never before has there been an easier way to make money from home! Our Company's Home Mailing Program is designed for people with little or no experience and provides simple, step by step instructions. There is no prior experience or special skills necessary on your part, Just stuffing envelopes. We need the help of honest and reliable home workers like you. Because we are overloaded with work and have more than our staff can handle. We have now expanded our mailing program and are expecting to reach millions more with our offers throughout the US and Canada. Our system of stuffing and mailing envelopes is very simple and easy to do! You will not be required to buy envelopes or postage stamps. We will gladly furnish all circulars at no cost to you. We assure you that as a participant in our program you will never have to mail anything objective or offensive. There are no quotas to meet, and there no contracts to sign. You can work as much, or as little as you want. Payment for each envelope you send out is Guaranteed! Here is what you will receive when you get your first Package. Inside you will find 100 envelopes, 100 labels and 100 sales letters ready to stuff and mail As soon as you are done with stuffing and mailing these first letters, your payment will arrive shortly, thereafter. All you have to do is to order more free supplies and stuff and mail more envelopes to make more money. Our sales literature which you will be stuffing and mailing will contain information outlining our highly informative manuals that we are advertising nationwide. As a free gift you will receive a special manual valued at $24.95, absolutely free, just for joining our Home Mailers Program. Plus you will get your own special code number, so that we will know how much you are to get paid. And to make re-ordering of more envelopes, that our company supplies very simple for you. We are giving you this free bonus because we want you to be confident in our company and to ensure that we will be doing business with you for a long time. Benefits Of This Job: 1. You do not have to quit your present job, to earn more money at home 2. You can make between $2,500 to $4,500 a month depending on the amount of time you are willing to spend stuffing and mailing envelopes 3. This is a great opportunity for the students, mothers, disabled persons or those who are home bodies. To secure your position and to show us that you are serious about earning extra income at home we require a one-time registration fee of $35.00. This fee covers the cost of your initial start up package, which includes 100 envelopes, 100 labels and 100 sales letters and a manual, your registration fee will be refunded back to you shortly thereafter. Money Back Guarantee! We guarantee that as soon as you stuff and mail your first 300 envelopes You will be paid $75.00 and your registration fee will be refunded. Many of you wonder why it is necessary to pay a deposit to get a job. It is because we are looking for people that seriously want to work from home. * If 3.000 people told us they wanted to start working from home and we sent out 3.000 packages free to every one. And then half of the people decided not to work, this would be a potential loss of more than $60,000 in supply's and shipping that we have sent out to people that don't want to work We have instituted this policy to make sure that you really want to work and at least finish your first package. To Get Started Today Please Enclose Your Registration Fee of $35 Check,Cash Or Money Order and fill out the application below and mail to: AHWA CO 425 S Fairfax Blvd., STE 306 Los Angeles, CA 90036 Name_____________________________________________________ Address___________________________________________________ City____________________________________ State______________ Zip Code________________ Telephone Number(s)_________________________________________ E-mail Address______________________________________________ For all orders, please allow seven (7) days for delivery and up to 10 days. Cash and Money Orders will result in faster shipping of your package. From cfandt at netsync.net Sat May 22 14:38:04 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Homeworkers Needed ! In-Reply-To: <199905221800.LAA30470@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <4.1.19990522153556.00afbd40@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:32 AM 5/22/99 +0000, bretu213@mindspring.com said something like: >Dear Future Associate, > >You Can Work At Home & Set Your Own Hours. Start earning Big >Money in a short time -- snip drivel -- Sheesh. Okay you Spammer wreckers on ClassicCmp! Looks like you got more live meat to kill off! Sic 'em! Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat May 22 14:56:48 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: TCPIP via ethernet under DOS? (I know that is possible...but!) In-Reply-To: <199905220450.AAA10297@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at May 22, 1999 12:56:57 AM Message-ID: <199905221956.NAA26068@calico.litterbox.com> > > Here is I have this: > > Cable modem, few classic and (few not so-classic) machines w/ > ethernet cards, DOS. > > Got drivers for netcards alright except: > > What s/w is needed to do the ip polling to gather in ip numbers on > outset of connecting to cablemodem? > > Is there's an good FAQ on this? > > I have seen the FAQ's for dos and ppp, TCPIP setup by modem is easily > found by net searches but I'm not able to find any on this premises > I'm looking for. > > Ever there's is a FTP program for DOS at all as well? > > WHY? I had enough troubles with win9x's file mangler when d/ling > linux files and fragile files that breaks (once in a while). > > Ram is no problem, I can choose any machines and/or add more than > 1MB. :-) > > I'm aware of web browsers for DOS but I dunno know what they're > capable of as I outlined here. > > I have heard of Pmail 3.40 and Arachne solution by popping by pmail > these to be sent files in correct location for Arachne to pick up and > send it and vice vesa. Again, that's partially ppp but I wanted to > know if Arachne does it themselves too? It would be nice if there is > a addon that works with pmail so I don't have to depend on arachne > for both ways. (Remember each of two have to run seperately). > > Is there's a good email for DOS that still meets standards that pmail > does? Ditto mime and uueneoded attachments. > > I seems to sound like newbie, yeah it is! > > Wizard Okay, it sounds like you're looking to build a LAN around your cable modem. Some things to consider: 1. Your cable modem probably is only going to assign you one IP address. If you only use one machine at a time, this probably isn't a problem. 2. If your cable modem is giving you a different IP address each time you connect with it (I think this is called DHCP, but I'm not sure) you're going to have problems getting classic DOS network tools to work with it. Having said this, there are of course ways to make this work. I would really suggest loading Linux on an appropriate machine connected to both the cable modem and an ethernet board, and configuring the kernel so it can do IP forwarding and masquarading. Then set the linux box up to get the address from the cable modem. Set a second address on the linux box to addresses in the series 10.0.0.1 and set static addresses in that series on all the other boxes you want to run on the network. From the internet's perspective the only machine that's talking to the net will be the linux box on its valid IP address. You won't be able to run servers that can be touched by the outside world on your network, since the outside world can't see anything but your linux box (and since the linux box's address changes each time it connects via the cable modem.) To make the dos boxes work, go to WUarchive and look for either CRYNWYR or CMU packet drivers appropriate to your ethernet boards. (I'd go Crynwyr, personally). Then look for a telnet package that works with those drivers on the same archive. Also look for Minuette - a really nice package of e-mail news, gopher (and maybe telnet, I forget) that the university of minnesota put out for packet driver connected DOS machines years ago. And welcome to the bad old days of PC networking. It worked, but it was absolutely dependant on static IP addresses, and on several layers of TSRs calling each other. It's hard to believe how much of an improvement winsock was when it came out, considering how crummy a TCP implementation it is generally speaking. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat May 22 15:46:51 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:12 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update In-Reply-To: <766c32ac.247814df@aol.com> Message-ID: Just wanted to share an experience. The Northstar that I got working this week up and quit working on me Thursday night. For no reason, it just stopped printing the NSDOS 5.1 banner on boot. I checked SINP on the bus and it was looping, I checked for read errors on the controller and found none. I swapped the 3 1488 line drivers around, then the 1489s for no reason and finally the 8251 USARTS to see if the problem would move from port to port. No dice. I checked for chips that may have popped out of sockets. I pulled chips and reinserted them. I pulled cards and reinserted them. Still nothing. I changed terminals. Nothing. Finally, it occured to me that I had flipped the chassis over to put some new rubber feet on the bottom and wondered if I could have shifted something, like a loose screw or nut. So I removed the motherboard and looked underneath. LO and BEHOLD! A previous owner had replaced an LS series chip and its socket and had not CUT OFF the excess leads on the bottom of the board!!! When I shifted the machine, it pushed the leads against the bottom of the chassis effectively grounding them! Once those were clipped and a piece of anti-static foam inserted beneath the motherboard, the machine now talks to the terminal FAR more reliably than before. So my Tip for the Day: When restoring a machine that isn't working, check out the user mods FIRST! They're the most likely suspect IMHO. Note: The machine still isn't acting 100% perfect. Sometimes it takes a reset or two to get it to boot properly. Is the N* A2 Ram-16 card known to be a bit flakey? I have an A3 that needs a capacitor replaced and I'm wondering if the A3 fixed specific problems with the A2. The problems it seems to be having look like memory problems to me. Thanks... Anthony Clifton From bill at chipware.com Sat May 22 15:57:33 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update Message-ID: <199905222055.NAA02043@mxu3.u.washington.edu> > Finally, it occured to me that I had flipped the chassis over to put > some new rubber feet on the bottom and wondered if I could have shifted > something, like a loose screw or nut. So I removed the motherboard and > looked underneath. LO and BEHOLD! A previous owner had replaced an > LS series chip and its socket and had not CUT OFF the excess leads on > the bottom of the board!!! When I shifted the machine, it pushed the > leads against the bottom of the chassis effectively grounding them! > > Once those were clipped and a piece of anti-static foam inserted beneath > the motherboard, the machine now talks to the terminal FAR more reliably > than before. Um... I thought that anti-static foam was conductive? Wouldn't that be bad? Maybe I'm wrong. Bill Sudbrink From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 22 12:31:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: FW: Floppy drive model numbers In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990521213638.00939100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> from "Bruce Lane" at May 21, 99 09:36:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1328 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990522/0783ea77/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 22 12:37:19 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Tektronix 31 programmable calculator In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 21, 99 10:22:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 426 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990522/a679eee2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 22 12:46:55 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 22, 99 01:14:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2426 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990522/a75aaae4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 22 12:21:36 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at May 21, 99 08:43:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990522/f477a893/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat May 22 16:15:18 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update In-Reply-To: <199905222055.NAA02043@mxu3.u.washington.edu> from "Bill Sudbrink" at May 22, 1999 04:57:33 PM Message-ID: <199905222115.PAA26369@calico.litterbox.com> > > > Finally, it occured to me that I had flipped the chassis over to put > > some new rubber feet on the bottom and wondered if I could have shifted > > something, like a loose screw or nut. So I removed the motherboard and > > looked underneath. LO and BEHOLD! A previous owner had replaced an > > LS series chip and its socket and had not CUT OFF the excess leads on > > the bottom of the board!!! When I shifted the machine, it pushed the > > leads against the bottom of the chassis effectively grounding them! > > > > Once those were clipped and a piece of anti-static foam inserted beneath > > the motherboard, the machine now talks to the terminal FAR more reliably > > than before. > > Um... I thought that anti-static foam was conductive? Wouldn't that > be bad? Maybe I'm wrong. > > Bill Sudbrink yeah, I thought anti-static foam was made from carbon specifically so it would conduct static charges away. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 22 16:06:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update In-Reply-To: <199905222055.NAA02043@mxu3.u.washington.edu> from "Bill Sudbrink" at May 22, 99 04:57:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990522/e9913fe6/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat May 22 16:49:43 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update In-Reply-To: References: <199905222055.NAA02043@mxu3.u.washington.edu> from "Bill Sudbrink" at May 22, 99 04:57:33 pm Message-ID: >> > Once those were clipped and a piece of anti-static foam inserted beneath >> > the motherboard, the machine now talks to the terminal FAR more reliably >> > than before. >Anti-static foam _is_ slightly conductive, but the resistance would be >too high to cause problems with TTL (or LS TTL) signals. Had this been >CMOS logic (much higher input impedance, so it's possible to drive the >inputs from high impedance sources), I would have been more worried. > >Although I do wonder why you didn't simply cut off the excess leads >yourself... DOH! =-D Actually, I thought about that. I was going to put some plastic underneath but it tends to slide around unless you tape it down. I could put tape underneath but that gets icky after a couple years. I remembered an Apple II mb a friend had mounted in a PC case, which didn't fit the mounting screws, so he used some anti-static foam underneath to support it and it worked fine. I've seen it used and used it this way all over the place so I guess it never occured to me that it could cause a problem. It certainly hasn't. If anything the machine is more stable now. There's just something about a board full of chips with their leads an 1/8th inch away from an aluminum ground plane that bothers me. At any rate, I DID clip the excess leads but since the angles make it about impossible to see UNDER the motherboard when it's mounted in the chassis, I decided not to take any chances. Plus the back half of a N* motherboard is NOT well supported. The center tends to sag I bit I notice and I also wanted it supported so I wouldn't get intermittants due to cracks in the aging PCB traces. Note: BTW, I found a reference in the N* newsletters I have to the A2 16k ram board being susceptible to noise on the bus. The A3 board, which was available also as an upgrade to the A2, has alot better noise immunity. Anthony Clifton From bluoval at mindspring.com Sat May 22 17:02:27 1999 From: bluoval at mindspring.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update References: <199905222055.NAA02043@mxu3.u.washington.edu> from "Bill Sudbrink" at May 22, 99 04:57:33 pm Message-ID: <37472973.6F237A8B@mindspring.com> If you _really_ wanted to check the distance from the leads to the plate, just put a piece of clay under it and assemble it, then unassemble and look at the clay. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead wrote: > >> > Once those were clipped and a piece of anti-static foam inserted beneath > >> > the motherboard, the machine now talks to the terminal FAR more reliably > >> > than before. > > >Anti-static foam _is_ slightly conductive, but the resistance would be > >too high to cause problems with TTL (or LS TTL) signals. Had this been > >CMOS logic (much higher input impedance, so it's possible to drive the > >inputs from high impedance sources), I would have been more worried. > > > >Although I do wonder why you didn't simply cut off the excess leads > >yourself... > > DOH! =-D Actually, I thought about that. I was going to put some > plastic underneath but it tends to slide around unless you tape it > down. I could put tape underneath but that gets icky after a couple > years. I remembered an Apple II mb a friend had mounted in a PC > case, which didn't fit the mounting screws, so he used some anti-static > foam underneath to support it and it worked fine. I've seen it used > and used it this way all over the place so I guess it never occured to > me that it could cause a problem. > > It certainly hasn't. If anything the machine is more stable now. > There's just something about a board full of chips with their leads > an 1/8th inch away from an aluminum ground plane that bothers me. > > At any rate, I DID clip the excess leads but since the angles make > it about impossible to see UNDER the motherboard when it's mounted in > the chassis, I decided not to take any chances. Plus the back half > of a N* motherboard is NOT well supported. The center tends to sag > I bit I notice and I also wanted it supported so I wouldn't get > intermittants due to cracks in the aging PCB traces. > > Note: BTW, I found a reference in the N* newsletters I have to the A2 > 16k ram board being susceptible to noise on the bus. The A3 board, > which was available also as an upgrade to the A2, has alot better noise > immunity. > > Anthony Clifton From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 22 17:10:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update In-Reply-To: <199905222115.PAA26369@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at May 22, 99 03:15:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 430 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990522/afe7dd9e/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat May 22 13:29:31 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! In-Reply-To: References: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 22, 99 01:14:08 am Message-ID: <199905222230.SAA01861@smtp.interlog.com> On 22 May 99 at 18:46, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > Hello all. > > > > This year at the VCF we're opening up the exhibition, and changing it into > > a computer faire. Want to show off your prized vintage computer artifact? > > What better way than to exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival! > > Why can't this happen in the UK??? :-(... > > Unfortunately there's no way I could think of showing any of my more > interesting machines, not only because I'll not be coming to VCF3, but > also because you can't carry 100kg of PERQ+manuals as hand luggage :-) > > > b) Originality and Authenticity > > > > The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is > > not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at > > assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to > > the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be > > considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point > > deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this > > category. Any consumables do not have to be authentic. Any item > > that has questionable authenticity or originalty needs to have > > supporting documentation. > > What are you going to do about 'contemporary' modifications? Most > machines had a number of 3rd party add-ons that IMHO should be left in > old machines if they're found there... > > For example, my TRS-80 model 4 came with a Z-clock in it. This is a > little board that fits under the Z80 processor and contains a real time > clock. If I was going to exhibit this machine, should I remove the option > (as it's not original), leave it in, or what? > > My view (and I'm not a judge) is that reversable modifications like that > shouldn't count against a machine. In fact, if the option is rare enough, > it should count in favour of it. > > > > > > c) System Completeness > > > > The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that > > is incomplete. A complete computer is one that includes the > > peripherals that were originally used on the computer or typical > > peripherals that would have been used with the computer if > > applicable. > > Does this mean _every_ peripheral that was ever made for the machine, > every peripheral that was made by the original manufacturer, or just a > representative sample of them? I'm having problems thinking of an Unibus > PDP11 (say an 11/45) with every option DEC ever made connected to it :-) > > -tony > Maybe a subsiduary contest for those unable to get to LaLa land and the Vintage Faire would be an interesting sidenote. One that would require actual photos or video presentations as well as supporting documentation. Vintage Machines from around the world. Tony's, Kees, and Andrews collections come to mind as well as the ones Hans can't carry on the plane. :^)) Could be a year-long promo event for next years Faire. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From sipke at wxs.nl Sat May 22 19:46:52 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update References: <199905222055.NAA02043@mxu3.u.washington.edu> from "Bill Sudbrink" at May 22, 99 04:57:33 pm Message-ID: <37474FFC.5ACDA0B0@wxs.nl> Check the quality of the decoupling capacitors on that board. A lot of noise can be caused by low grade decoupling caps. If in doubt replace them with speedy MKM-type 100n caps. Putting the board in a slot near one of the terminators may also be helpfull. Does this machine has active termination on the bus? Sipke de Wal Anthony Clifton - Wirehead wrote: > > Note: BTW, I found a reference in the N* newsletters I have to the A2 > 16k ram board being susceptible to noise on the bus. The A3 board, > which was available also as an upgrade to the A2, has alot better noise > immunity. > > Anthony Clifton From sipke at wxs.nl Sat May 22 19:52:54 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update References: Message-ID: <37475166.1EDBA760@wxs.nl> Allways check the foam you intend to use. Not every brand has the same specs. An ohmmeter reading of more than 1 meg accross an inch will be Ok. For fixing board sagging problems I love those rubber pencil ereasers. You can cut them up in any shape you like and fix them with a dab of epoxy so they won't come loose. Sipke de Wal Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Um... I thought that anti-static foam was conductive? Wouldn't that > > > be bad? Maybe I'm wrong. > > [...] > > > yeah, I thought anti-static foam was made from carbon specifically so it would > > conduct static charges away. > > I've just taken a piece of such foam and stuck my ohmmeter probes in it, > about 0.1" apart. The resistance was about 5-10M. I don't think there's > much chance of that shorting out a TTL signal. > > -tony From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat May 22 19:59:15 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! Message-ID: <990522205915.216000eb@trailing-edge.com> > The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is > not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at > assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to > the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be > considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point > deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this > category. Interesting set of rules, with an interesting sense of "purity". In the real world, of course, someone who bought an IMSAI and populated it with only IMSAI peripherals was a fool. And it also leaves out the richness of computing that is (was) possible - take a look in the back of a late 70's BYTE and you'll see hundreds of manufacturers making a huge variety of S-100 boards. Yet any computers demonstrating this richness, so important in the early personal computing industry before the dominance of the PC-clone and the subsequent dull monotony of compatibles, lose points in this proposed judging scheme. Oh well, different strokes for different folks. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat May 22 17:27:03 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990522172703.21afb5e0@earthlink.net> At 01:14 AM 5/22/99 -0700, Sam wrote, > The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is > not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at > assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to > the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be > considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point > deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this > category. Any consumables do not have to be authentic. Any item > that has questionable authenticity or originalty needs to have > supporting documentation. > > So I would be penalized for getting my SWTPC CT-1024 video terminal to work and enter it? First I changed the number of characters/ line from 32 to 64. Then I added a cassette "bit bopper" to it. I found the 60Hz line sync didn't work right, so took it out. Lastly, I added some graphics display in parallel to the characters. Now 20 or so years later, it doesn't seem to work, and the "original" ic's are all soldered in. -Dave From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 22 21:10:17 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update Message-ID: <199905230210.AA03375@world.std.com> References: <766c32ac.247814df@aol.com> Message-ID: Anybody on the list go to or have more information on the auction in New Mexico called something like Brenners? I have seen some neat Mac stuff that still had the tags from the auction still on it, and I would be delighted to replace the current middleman I buy from. From dogas at leading.net Sun May 23 00:13:09 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: new Heathkit site. Message-ID: <01bea4da$f33adee0$f0c962cf@devlaptop> Whew. I'm done (for now) with my new Heathkit site, version 3.0!!! http://millennial-concepts.com/dogas/heath.html 25 pictures and 7 documents in 9 pages and a few days. Please check it out and let me know what you think or can add. ;) - Mike: dogas@leading.net From hhacker at home.com Sun May 23 00:43:37 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: TCPIP via ethernet under DOS? (I know that is possible...but!) Message-ID: <000601bea4df$34d55110$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> Here are my thoughts on your need: -----Original Message----- From: jpero@pop.cgocable.net To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 9:51 PM Subject: TCPIP via ethernet under DOS? (I know that is possible...but!) >What s/w is needed to do the ip polling to gather in ip numbers on >outset of connecting to cablemodem? The s/w should consist of an interrupt driven device driver for the NIC, with any interrupts providing for input servicing. Now, this device driver should also provide the transfer of processor control to the IP layer. So, my suggestion is that you start with the NIC software. Under DOS you should also be able to implement the IP stack by extraction from LINIX, or some other UNIX variant. Sure, there is bound to be a lot of modification work that you will have to supply to the code you "steal" from LINIX but, since DOS is a pseudo-lookalike for UNIX, it should work easily. William R. Buckley From hhacker at home.com Sun May 23 00:46:41 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Homeworkers Needed ! Message-ID: <001301bea4df$a26e4330$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> You must be talking about me. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 12:41 PM Subject: Re: Homeworkers Needed ! >Upon the date 07:32 AM 5/22/99 +0000, bretu213@mindspring.com said >something like: >>Dear Future Associate, >> >>You Can Work At Home & Set Your Own Hours. Start earning Big >>Money in a short time > -- snip drivel -- > >Sheesh. > >Okay you Spammer wreckers on ClassicCmp! > >Looks like you got more live meat to kill off! Sic 'em! > > >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net >Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From russmiller at jps.net Sun May 23 03:31:17 1999 From: russmiller at jps.net (Russ Miller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Tek 31 calculator In-Reply-To: <199905230702.AAA00472@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <4.2.0.37.19990523011608.009dc090@jps.net> Sellam, I've got a manual which could be scanned - It has one of those plastic comb bindings (Acco?) which needs replacing anyway. I think it is original since the cover is the typical Tektronix type with the cutout window that shows the title page. I can make a copy, or possibly loan it to someone local (Sacramento|Bay Area) for scanning. I was planning to bring the calculator and manuals (operating+statistics) to VCF to look for an interesting trade. Russ >Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 07:11:12 -0700 >From: "Rick Bensene" >I have an English operators manual. If anyone has questions about >operation of the machine, I'd be glad to look stuff up, but the format From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun May 23 07:17:50 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! Message-ID: <990523081750.216000eb@trailing-edge.com> >Like Tim said, nont one member of LICA has a "pure" machine. Some part >was non stock and often the reason was price or availability. I can't say >how many Altair and IMSAIs with floppies from neither vendor were seen. Or, as I understand the rules, it would penalize someone who hooked a Model 33 Teletype to their Altair because MITS didn't make the Teletype. Yet the Teletype is the most singularly classic input/output peripheral of the era. And if you didn't have a Teletype, users generally had some surplus keyboard hooked to their S-100 box (heck, look at the very first issue of _BYTE_ which features "surplus keyboards" as the cover story!). Yet again, you get penalized in the judging for configuring your machine as it would have typically been configured by an actual user in that day. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From cfandt at netsync.net Sun May 23 09:28:41 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Homeworkers Needed ! In-Reply-To: <001301bea4df$a26e4330$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home .com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990523102342.00ab6b00@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:46 PM 5/22/99 -0700, Buck Savage said something like: >You must be talking about me. Yes William. I knew there were a few folks on the list who delighted in letting a spammer know they were not welcome here by tracing their often hidden ISP and, for example, getting their accounts canceled. Although the ISP Mindspring wasn't exactly hidden in this case. Regards, Chris -- -- > >William R. Buckley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christian Fandt >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 12:41 PM >Subject: Re: Homeworkers Needed ! > > >>Upon the date 07:32 AM 5/22/99 +0000, bretu213@mindspring.com said >>something like: >>>Dear Future Associate, >>> >>>You Can Work At Home & Set Your Own Hours. Start earning Big >>>Money in a short time >> -- snip drivel -- >> >>Sheesh. >> >>Okay you Spammer wreckers on ClassicCmp! >> >>Looks like you got more live meat to kill off! Sic 'em! >> -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From dogas at leading.net Sun May 23 12:47:41 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: new Heathkit site. Message-ID: <01bea544$5b5af780$d7c962cf@devlaptop> *evil*grin. I just spent a wopping $2.25 on advertising. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=107952117 :) - Mike: dogas@leading.net From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun May 23 10:24:40 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: CT1024, was VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: In-Reply-To: <199905230229.AA10181@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990523102440.238fb586@earthlink.net> At 10:29 PM 5/22/99 -0400, Allison wrote: > >Common mod, mine has it too. Mine wasn't the most neat, ic's soldered on top of others, etc. > > >BIT boffer, Kilobaud. common enough and aimed at CT1024. I built the Bit Boffer from the March 1976 Byte. It was my second cassette interface. The first was just a keyed tone, at about 110 baud. The third was a Processor Tech CUTS. Missed the Kilobaud issues, but the same circuit may still be in the back of Don Lancaster's CMOS cookbook. The UART from the bit boffer got recycled into a serial interface for it, at 1200 baud. > >The 60hz sync was a component problem and once the offending pot and cap >were replaced I found it to be very stable. > Were these the timing components for the 555 running at 15,840kHz? Pot. = R38 and timing cap C16= 1nF? Were they out of tolerance for this frequency or something else? My display was stable without 60Hz "sync" input and moved around at about 1Hz with the input. >likely forgot how to turn it on. ;) > Wish it were something so simple :). -Dave From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 23 12:05:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! In-Reply-To: <990523081750.216000eb@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 23, 99 08:17:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1095 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990523/737ebcd7/attachment.ksh From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Sun May 23 14:37:47 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Questions about VCF Computer Faire? Message-ID: I cannot access my e-mail currently but just wanted everyone to know if you have any questions about the VCF exhibit I will be answering them in a couple days so thanks for your patience. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Puttin' the smack down on the man! Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun May 23 14:47:40 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Tektronix 31 programmable calculator In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990522090632.00aa11f0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 May 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > Upon the date 10:22 PM 5/21/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail said something like: > > > >Does anyone (Philip?) have any general information on the Tektronix 31 > >programmable calculator? > > Hi Sellam, I've got an Operating Manual, however, it's in French. Probably > came out of Quebec Province I would figure. Need info from it? I'm hoping to find the manual where I found the calculator. If I turn it up I'll be happy to make a copy for you. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From roblwill at usaor.net Sun May 23 17:36:16 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Peer-to-Peer under OS/2 Warp Message-ID: <01bea56c$ab800f20$848ea6d1@the-general> I'm trying to set up Peer-to-peer network among my classic computers. Most of my computers run Dr-DOS 7.x with the network package, and the network cards work in them. My problem is my server... It's a PS/2 Model 80, running OS/2 Warp (3.0). How do I get peer-to peer to work under OS/2? What software do I need? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From cfandt at netsync.net Sun May 23 15:18:28 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Tektronix 31 programmable calculator In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990522090632.00aa11f0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990523161617.00b19e90@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:47 PM 5/23/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail said something like: >On Sat, 22 May 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > >> Upon the date 10:22 PM 5/21/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail said something like: >> > >> >Does anyone (Philip?) have any general information on the Tektronix 31 >> >programmable calculator? >> >> Hi Sellam, I've got an Operating Manual, however, it's in French. Probably >> came out of Quebec Province I would figure. Need info from it? > >I'm hoping to find the manual where I found the calculator. If I turn it >up I'll be happy to make a copy for you. Thanks for the offer Sellam! It's been *years* since I learned French and it's rather hard to get thru. Make sure you keep tabs on the costs. Good luck in finding it. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From roblwill at usaor.net Sun May 23 18:45:24 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <01bea576$54039f00$b79ba6d1@the-general> I have my (fairly small - mostly standard desktops) collection housed in my basement. I have a fairly large drafting table (workbench), with cement blocks near the back (on top). I have 3/4" plywood shelves, 3 levels high. The first and second shelves are computers, and all the monitors are on top. They've been like that for tow or three years, now, with no problems. The only downside is that the cement blocks get to be pretty heavy. They're not bad for a garage, though, if you don't plan to be moving them. They're easy to find at demolition sites, too. I got mine for $1 a block. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun May 23 16:09:57 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Semi-Final Northstar Horizon Update In-Reply-To: <199905230228.AA10099@world.std.com> Message-ID: > >Standard NS* horizon does not have any termination passive or active. Most >work fine without it but I happen to have one that is a bit more stubborn. >Though the NS* 64k dram installed works fine without termination on the bus >most everything else wants it. Odd as I have another that never had >termination! Well, the Northstar now sports a nice clean pair of Shugart SA400s in its drive bays, both of which work fine. I cleaned up the aluminum chassis with some rubbing alcohol (though I have one handwritten sticker on the front left to remove). It spiffed up real nice! On a disk that Doug Coward sent me, which doesn't boot but can be read once I boot of one of the disks sent to me by Don Maslin, I have a couple programs called RAMTEST3 and RAMTEST5. They're purpose is obvious BUT I don't have any docs for them. Does anyone have information on the various values it can show for each 1k block of memory it examines? Thanks... Anthony Clifton From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 23 16:45:01 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: CT1024, was VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: Message-ID: <199905232145.AA28019@world.std.com> <>Common mod, mine has it too. < References: <199905230228.AA10099@world.std.com> Message-ID: >On a disk that Doug Coward sent me, which doesn't boot but can be read >once I boot of one of the disks sent to me by Don Maslin, I have a >couple programs called RAMTEST3 and RAMTEST5. They're purpose is >obvious BUT I don't have any docs for them. Does anyone have information >on the various values it can show for each 1k block of memory it examines? Using RAMTEST3 and RAMTEST5, which load at 3000h and 5000h respectively, I was able to configure and drop in two more 16k ram boards so I now have the system up to 48k. Using some BASIC programs off of Doug Coward's disk I was able to load and run STARTREK! Woo hoo! I've always loved that game! Now I just need to figure out one of my many miscellaneous 8k boards and repair the N* RAM16 A3 board to replace the slightly flakey RAM16 A3 board in the machine currently. Then I'll have 56k. Perhaps then I'll be able to load and use CP/M 2.2. =-D Anthony Clifton From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun May 23 18:22:46 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Vector Graphic S100 Identification Request In-Reply-To: References: <199905230228.AA10099@world.std.com> Message-ID: Greetings, Ok, I've got a Vector Graphic S100 chassis full of cards and another chassis with an 8" hard disk. I picked up this machine last fall from Jeff Kaneko. Thanks Jeff! I thought since I've had such good luck with the Northstar that I'd start tackling the VG. Ok, here's what I know about it. The system chassis says just Vector on the front, has a keyswitch and a reset button. It also has a 5 1/4" floppy drive in the front. The Part Number on the back says 9007-0018 while the Serial Number says 1003. A similar sticker on the inside bottom next to the floppy drive says PN 5034-0016 SN 10014. The system has a Bitstreamer II card, which I'm assuming goes to something like a tape drive (which I do not have), 4 Vector 64k RAM cards, a Vector CPU card with a Z80B, which has a serial console cable going to a DB25 on the back of the unit. The unit also has three serial cards going to five DB25s on the back, each having a label that says "Vector Mindless Terminal Only". The CPU card says ZCB on it and has a copyright of 1979. What can anyone tell me about this system? What model is it? Did it run CP/M or M/PM or both? Anyone have bootdisks for this thing? On a side note, the cables to the hard disk have been snipped but there's enough on either side to know what they're supposed to be. Obviously, when I reconnect those there's a possibility that it will boot off the hard disk. ??? (Maybe that's an assumption) Thanks... Anthony Clifton PS: I'm sending this directly to you, Don, as well to see if you have a bootdisk for it. Thanks! From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun May 23 19:19:41 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <01bea576$54039f00$b79ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: where you are, are cinder blocks cheaper than XTs? From roblwill at usaor.net Sun May 23 22:51:45 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <01bea598$bdd94f20$e99ba6d1@the-general> Usually. It depends on where you find them. XT's go for around $15 - cinder blocks go for about $1-$5. It depends on what you want. The ones I got were pick-and-choose from a demolition site. I had to chip off some chunks of cement and such, but I think it was worth it. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier >where you are, are cinder blocks cheaper than XTs? > > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun May 23 20:22:30 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <01bea576$54039f00$b79ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: >I have my (fairly small - mostly standard desktops) collection housed in my >basement. I have a fairly large drafting table (workbench), with cement >blocks near the back (on top). I have 3/4" plywood shelves, 3 levels high. >The first and second shelves are computers, and all the monitors are on top. >They've been like that for tow or three years, now, with no problems. > >The only downside is that the cement blocks get to be pretty heavy. They're >not bad for a garage, though, if you don't plan to be moving them. They're >easy to find at demolition sites, too. I got mine for $1 a block. I like to use something called a Gorilla Rack. You can buy them at SAM'S Club stores (membership discount store) under the name Gorilla Rack. Basically, they're big steel and wood shelving units strong enough you can park a car on them. And they only cost $60. I use one at work to house 12 servers, KVM switches, a UPS, a monitor, keyboard and mouse with room to spare. I have a smaller version at home that I dislike. The real ones are 4' wide, about 6' tall and about 20 inches deep. Perfect for stacking machines. Also, I have two 6' tables with machines on them that I use regularly. But the deskspace fills up quickly. So I mounted to shelving brackets behind them on the wall about 2' off the desktop and then mounted a piece of 3/4" fiberboard, 4' by 2' on those. Then the front of the board is supported by 3 vertical 2x4's that rest on the table top. It almost doubles the amount of equipment that can be stored in that space. I'm going to do the same thing above the table that I keep my iMac on. I'm also big on 19" racks. I have a serious fetish for them. I get them from decommissioned paging systems at $10-20 each. I have a nice blue one in the server room in my basement that houses a 36 port hub, a terminal server, a small router, some modems and some other equipment. Anthony Clifton From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun May 23 21:32:48 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Peer-to-Peer under OS/2 Warp Message-ID: In a message dated 5/23/99 2:50:23 PM US Eastern Standard Time, roblwill@usaor.net writes: > I'm trying to set up Peer-to-peer network among my classic computers. Most > of my computers run Dr-DOS 7.x with the network package, and the network > cards work in them. My problem is my server... It's a PS/2 Model 80, > running OS/2 Warp (3.0). How do I get peer-to peer to work under OS/2? > What software do I need? well, you should be running warp connect, which includes os2 peer on the mod80. if you dont have warp connect, something tells me there was tcp/ip for os2 version 2.1 that you could possibly get, but i'd need to research that. best thing is to post the question into one of the os2 groups on usenet. many people would be glad to offer help. From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 23 21:39:05 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Final Northstar Horizon Update (for now) Message-ID: <199905240239.AA27463@world.std.com> No, but they do take up less space. Consequently, I've been pulling out the hard drives and the power supplies. The power supplies make a decent brick substitute and the drives have enough high quality scrap aluminum in them to pay for the XT and a cinder block. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 6:33 PM Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier >where you are, are cinder blocks cheaper than XTs? > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun May 23 21:56:48 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Final Northstar Horizon Update (for now) In-Reply-To: <199905240239.AA27463@world.std.com> Message-ID: > >CPM needs memory starting from 0000h. and dependinghow is was sysgend or >move'd anywhere from 20k all the way up to E800h (base of the FDC). >Currently the only version of CPM I have for the NS is V1.4 for the single >density controller. When I went to CPM2.2 I used a different controller. > >The upside is there is burried on the WC CPM cdrom a few BIOSs for the NS* >controller. Hmmm...I've got a couple CPM 2.2 boot disks from Don Maslin. I've got a query into him right now to see where they want to load etc. My machine's memory starts at 2000h and I tried booting just for giggles and that's obviously not going to work! =-D There's nothing on the Northstar that naturally wants to live from 0000h to 1FFFh is there? I notice N* DOS wants to load at 2000h so I wonder. Hmmmm... BTW, I've got another N* chassis in the garage in highly crustated condition that I'm considering trying to resurrect now that I've got one working. It's just the motherboard and chassis. I've got an A1 revision Northstar CPU card and, once I repair the A3 Ram 16 card, I'll have an A2 revision RAM card available. I have to figure out what I do for mass storage. Hmmmm... Anthony Clifton From hhacker at home.com Sun May 23 22:25:41 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. Message-ID: <021001bea595$1a61cdc0$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> I have a paperweight of rough dimension 20" by 20" by 6", having a base with a flange to secure the paperweight to some other device, a motor about 6" in diameter protruding from the outside of the base, the base being about 2" thick, with a top cover about 5" thick. The base is grey metal, perhaps aluminum, while the top cover is gold in color. Now, this item has a layer of what appears to be a foam material which provides a seal between the base and top cover, and out of one side come five cables, four with ribbon cable and end connectors marked W033, and the fifth with a round cable and an unmarked connector. This device is a DEC product, having the appropriate lable, with the following information: RS11 WF6581 Please, can any of your tell me what this item is, and how it may be used. I can tell you that it weighs between 70 and 100 lbs, as judged by my own strength. William R. Buckley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990523/139cddbd/attachment.html From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun May 23 22:59:21 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. In-Reply-To: <021001bea595$1a61cdc0$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home .com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990523205354.00b88e20@mcmanis.com> This is where the Option/Module guide comes in handy. RS11 - probably a suffix missing (either B,C, or D and an optional A) This is a HDA (hard disk assembly) for an RF11 drive which could have two such drives installed. A complete RF11 consists of RF11 + RSO8-M + RS09-M (yours is the RS09-M) --Chuck At 08:25 PM 5/23/99 -0700, you wrote: > > I have a paperweight of rough dimension 20" by 20" by 6", having a base with > a From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun May 23 23:02:09 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Woe is Me In-Reply-To: References: <199905240239.AA27463@world.std.com> Message-ID: So I've got BASIC loaded and I'm doing a CATALOG of a disk from Doug Coward and lots of garbage starts spewing out of the terminal and now the machine won't boot again. Everything is grounded properly and I don't usually have static problems in the basement (too humid) so I'm assuming something chose that particular moment to die. *sigh* Back to the test bench again! I've fixed this thing now twice already! Guess once more won't hurt. I go upstairs and tell my wife my tale of woe and she responds that it was impressive that I fixed it the first two times. *sigh* Still it depresses me. Oh well. Anthony Clifton From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun May 23 23:08:01 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Woe is NOT Me In-Reply-To: References: <199905240239.AA27463@world.std.com> Message-ID: Apparently the Northstar needed a break. I turned it off for about 10 minutes, powered it back on and *poof* now it boots! What gives? I'm not used to this "subtle shades of grey" thing. I'm used to machines that either work or don't. This "I'm gonna freak out and then be ok in a few minutes" thing is just weird to me. Now it's running the STARTREK BASIC game from Creative Computing. Frankly, I'm starting to wonder how long it really takes for the voltage levels to drop low enough for things to be 'reset'. Goofy. Am I just made or what? Anthony Clifton From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun May 23 23:24:13 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Woe is NOT Me In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Wirehead" at May 23, 1999 11:08:01 PM Message-ID: <199905240424.WAA31569@calico.litterbox.com> > > Apparently the Northstar needed a break. I turned it off for about > 10 minutes, powered it back on and *poof* now it boots! What gives? > > I'm not used to this "subtle shades of grey" thing. I'm used to > machines that either work or don't. This "I'm gonna freak out > and then be ok in a few minutes" thing is just weird to me. > > Now it's running the STARTREK BASIC game from Creative Computing. > > Frankly, I'm starting to wonder how long it really takes for > the voltage levels to drop low enough for things to be 'reset'. > > Goofy. Am I just made or what? > > Anthony Clifton I'm no expert in electronics by any stretch, but this almost sounds like a thermal thing. The computer gets warm and whatever happens happens. When it cools off the function returns. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Sat May 22 17:25:04 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Northstar Horizon Update Message-ID: <001001bea4a1$f13dc640$0100c0a8@fuj03> Seems to me like last time I took one of the classes leading to "ESD Certification" the standard resistance for "primary packaging," which is what encloses and otherwise directly contacts the packaged items, was 1 MegOhm per inch. That is high enough resistance that you can't hurt yourself with inadvertent contact with the AC mains, yet low enough to dissipate static from the usual sources with little risk to the components. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Northstar Horizon Update >> > Um... I thought that anti-static foam was conductive? Wouldn't that >> > be bad? Maybe I'm wrong. > >[...] > >> yeah, I thought anti-static foam was made from carbon specifically so it would >> conduct static charges away. > >I've just taken a piece of such foam and stuck my ohmmeter probes in it, >about 0.1" apart. The resistance was about 5-10M. I don't think there's >much chance of that shorting out a TTL signal. > >-tony > From edick at idcomm.com Sun May 23 16:04:32 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:13 2005 Subject: Peer-to-Peer under OS/2 Warp Message-ID: <000a01bea55f$db7c86c0$0100c0a8@fuj03> The only time I EVER used OS/2 for any length of time, at a client's site, thank God, not my own, we used PCNFS, since half the stations in the place were using UNIX. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jason (the General) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 2:02 PM Subject: Peer-to-Peer under OS/2 Warp >I'm trying to set up Peer-to-peer network among my classic computers. Most >of my computers run Dr-DOS 7.x with the network package, and the network >cards work in them. My problem is my server... It's a PS/2 Model 80, >running OS/2 Warp (3.0). How do I get peer-to peer to work under OS/2? >What software do I need? > >ThAnX, >///--->>> > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > From hhacker at home.com Mon May 24 00:59:49 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. Message-ID: <057f01bea5aa$a2b225c0$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> I can not see how a suffix is missing, since the label is without marks other than those used to emboss the "RS11" identification. As for this being a hard disk assembly, please tell me more. One other item of identification is that the gold top cover has a pipe sticking out of it, which is curved and of diameter about 1.5", and to tell you the truth, I thought this paperweight was some kind of blower or air conditioning unit. Still, the weight of the unit lends credence to the notion of it being some kind of DASD (to use IBM parlance). William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 8:51 PM Subject: Re: Strange DEC heavyweight. >This is where the Option/Module guide comes in handy. > RS11 - probably a suffix missing (either B,C, or D and an optional A) >This is a HDA (hard disk assembly) for an RF11 drive which could have two such >drives installed. > >A complete RF11 consists of > RF11 + RSO8-M + RS09-M (yours is the RS09-M) > >--Chuck > >At 08:25 PM 5/23/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >> I have a paperweight of rough dimension 20" by 20" by 6", having a base with >> a > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 24 01:46:31 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. In-Reply-To: <057f01bea5aa$a2b225c0$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home .com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990523234429.00b55d60@mcmanis.com> Well the RS11 with no suffix is just the controller but since yours has a motor and a "W" serial number it sounds like one of the fixed head disks for the RF11. I'm guessing that the tube would connect to the air filtration system. I've not had much luck locating a picture for comparison. I'll bet you any amount of money if you were to open it you would find a single platter attached to that motor inside the housing and a pair of read/write heads. --Chuck At 10:59 PM 5/23/99 -0700, you wrote: >I can not see how a suffix is missing, since the label is without >marks other than those used to emboss the "RS11" identification. > >As for this being a hard disk assembly, please tell me more. > >One other item of identification is that the gold top cover has a >pipe sticking out of it, which is curved and of diameter about 1.5", >and to tell you the truth, I thought this paperweight was some kind >of blower or air conditioning unit. Still, the weight of the unit lends >credence to the notion of it being some kind of DASD (to use IBM >parlance). > >William R. Buckley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Chuck McManis >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 8:51 PM >Subject: Re: Strange DEC heavyweight. > > >>This is where the Option/Module guide comes in handy. >> RS11 - probably a suffix missing (either B,C, or D and an optional >A) >>This is a HDA (hard disk assembly) for an RF11 drive which could have two >such >>drives installed. >> >>A complete RF11 consists of >> RF11 + RSO8-M + RS09-M (yours is the RS09-M) >> >>--Chuck >> >>At 08:25 PM 5/23/99 -0700, you wrote: >>> >>> I have a paperweight of rough dimension 20" by 20" by 6", having a base >with >>> a >> >> >> > From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sun May 23 22:11:19 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Compaq Multi-i/o w/ IDE and FD card. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990514133145.216fe96e@intellistar.net> References: <990508123618.2540014c@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <199905240704.DAA04791@mail.cgocable.net> Hi all, That is real CLASSIC card because all those chips on it says appox 1986 and this card needs fixing. The compaq label for it is 46094 stuck onto intel 8272A FDC chip. Solder side etched (along top edge) says: 1985 Compaq comp. corp. flpy/prn/ser/winch bd diagram no. 000337-000 bd no. 000338-001 REV D. PCB is green. Reason: a POT resistor broken off and lost. It's located at R19. Want the value of it and appoximate resistances between 2 leads and the wiper pin. This pot is at front end toward bottom and around FDC chip area. Thanks! Newer one also by compaq, PCB is tan/reddish orange, has 1 dipswitch on one edge and much plain looking because of fewer mostly SMD components on it. I'm interested in it if you're selling one. It works well with any IDE drives and got respectable transfer rate And another reason for wanting compaq ones because IDE port is properly buffered which so many clone i/o cards I seen does not have it between ISA and IDE port! Wizard From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 24 02:46:41 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: FONT NAME question Message-ID: <4.1.19990524004459.00b7e570@mcmanis.com> Anyone know the name of the font used in the old "d|i|g|i|t|a|l" logo? I'm trying to reconstruct it (I've found a couple of gif files but I'd really like line art) for reproduction. Compaq is squashing this logo fast so seeing it is getting harder and harder! --Chuck From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon May 24 03:19:14 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <01bea598$bdd94f20$e99ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: >Usually. It depends on where you find them. XT's go for around $15 - Ouch! My plan is to see what people will pay me to haul off some old model 95's, then ten minutes with a welder and I really would have "computer" shelves. From Innfogra at aol.com Mon May 24 04:11:43 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <4b21b29c.247a71cf@aol.com> Because I had an excess amount of them I used Fujitsu 2333 8" hard drives in place of the building blocks when building board and block shelves. While they are heavier than concrete blocks they will not break. I have had concrete blocks collapse in the past. Paxton From sipke at wxs.nl Mon May 24 05:05:11 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: FONT NAME question References: <4.1.19990524004459.00b7e570@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <37492457.B8F1B666@wxs.nl> From kevan at heydon.org Mon May 24 06:05:17 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier References: Message-ID: <3749326D.2A37FC75@heydon.org> Mike Ford wrote: > > >Whatever happened to wood/plywood? It is fairly cheap, since you don't > >really need top quality wood, and you can easily shape it to any > >length/width you want. > > Good idea, I'll stop by Ikea and see what they have. ;) I use their STEN shelving. It's cheap and goes together nicely. There are both 50cm and 30cm deep shelves. I have mine packed with a lot of heavy stuff (they say it can take 500Kg per shelf) and they seem to be standing up well. They have wooden wheeled storage boxes that fit in with it, and some their other plastic storage boxes make very good cable boxes that fit flush in the 50cm deep shelves. Kevan From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 24 07:53:34 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Compaq Multi-i/o w/ IDE and FD card. In-Reply-To: <199905240704.DAA04791@mail.cgocable.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19990514133145.216fe96e@intellistar.net> <990508123618.2540014c@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990524075334.218f71aa@intellistar.net> Can you tell us which model Compaq the boards are out of? I may have a machine here with the boards in them. Joe At 03:11 AM 5/24/99 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > >That is real CLASSIC card because all those chips on it says appox >1986 and this card needs fixing. > >The compaq label for it is 46094 stuck onto intel 8272A FDC chip. >Solder side etched (along top edge) says: > >1985 Compaq comp. corp. flpy/prn/ser/winch bd diagram no. 000337-000 >bd no. 000338-001 REV D. PCB is green. > >Reason: a POT resistor broken off and lost. It's located at R19. >Want the value of it and appoximate resistances between 2 leads and >the wiper pin. This pot is at front end toward bottom and around FDC >chip area. > >Thanks! > >Newer one also by compaq, PCB is tan/reddish orange, has 1 dipswitch >on one edge and much plain looking because of fewer mostly SMD >components on it. I'm interested in it if you're selling one. > >It works well with any IDE drives and got respectable transfer rate >And another reason for wanting compaq ones because IDE port is >properly buffered which so many clone i/o cards I seen does not have >it between ISA and IDE port! > >Wizard > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon May 24 07:30:20 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Northstar Woe is NOT Me In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 May 1999, Anthony Clifton - Wirehead wrote: > > Apparently the Northstar needed a break. I turned it off for about > 10 minutes, powered it back on and *poof* now it boots! What gives? It may be that one of the many 5V regulators got too hot and shut down. Only was is to test with a meter if it happens again. > I'm not used to this "subtle shades of grey" thing. I'm used to > machines that either work or don't. This "I'm gonna freak out > and then be ok in a few minutes" thing is just weird to me. Compared to an Altair the NS was a walk in the park! > Frankly, I'm starting to wonder how long it really takes for > the voltage levels to drop low enough for things to be 'reset'. Actually very short time for reset and the hardware reset on the back is quite literally hardware reset. But beware of the 8V CD bus as that takes a good 1-3 minutes to drop to near zero and inserting or removing a board too soon after power off can be very BAD. Despite 21 years with my first NS* the second one has proven a bit weird as well. it took a bus terminator from my CCS system to take it down. The only difference is the old system on average always had at least 5 boards plgged in and the current one only three. If you want to try terminating the bus use this combo... 330ohms between the +5 and the signal line and a 220 ohm between ground and the signal line. That will terminate the bus so there is less noise and also it wil assure a "open" line has a logic 1 (of about 3V). Terminate all teh control lines (10-15 of them), data in and data out. No need to do all 92 lines (some are gound, power or unused). Also many signals are unimplmented like the interrupt lines to the cpu. One last source of problems on most any old machine is if cheap sockets were used. Some of the RN sockets were just plain crap. I had trouble with sockets back in summer of 79 after a lightening hit and many ICs replaced and eventually had to pull ALL the sockets and solder teh chips downn. It's been solid since. Allison From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon May 24 07:30:21 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: FONT NAME question In-Reply-To: <37492457.B8F1B666@wxs.nl> from Sipke de Wal at "May 24, 1999 12: 5:11 pm" Message-ID: <199905241230.IAA01348@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > >From what I can gather it must be something very much like ARIAL but > with a bit more rounded features and the absence of a slant-end on > the top of the 't' > > Maybe you could make it yourself with a tt-font-editor. taking one > of the ARIAL-fonts as a starting point. > > Sipke de Wal > > > Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > Anyone know the name of the font used in the old "d|i|g|i|t|a|l" logo? I'm > > trying to reconstruct it (I've found a couple of gif files but I'd really > > like line art) for reproduction. Compaq is squashing this logo fast so > > seeing it is getting harder and harder! > > > > --Chuck > > The original Blue with white letters DEC logo from 1981 was just Helvetica (reversed to get the letter block look ). When they went to maroon they tricked around the letter kerning a bit. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From hhacker at home.com Mon May 24 07:34:11 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. Message-ID: <058601bea5e1$ba65a200$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> So interesting that you would suggest the results of "device surgery," as that is one of the options that I had considered. How big (storage capacity) might this device provide. As for a picture, I shall look into providing same to the newsgroup. I do not have a web page, so some other mechanism of image distribution will be required. William R. Buckley >Well the RS11 with no suffix is just the controller but since yours has a >motor and a "W" serial number it sounds like one of the fixed head disks >for the RF11. I'm guessing that the tube would connect to the air >filtration system. I've not had much luck locating a picture for >comparison. I'll bet you any amount of money if you were to open it you >would find a single platter attached to that motor inside the housing and a >pair of read/write heads. >--Chuck > From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon May 24 08:01:41 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. Message-ID: <990524090141.21e000d9@trailing-edge.com> >Well the RS11 with no suffix is just the controller but since yours has a >motor and a "W" serial number it sounds like one of the fixed head disks >for the RF11. I'm guessing that the tube would connect to the air >filtration system. I've not had much luck locating a picture for >comparison. I'll bet you any amount of money if you were to open it you >would find a single platter attached to that motor inside the housing >and a pair of read/write heads. ^^^^^^ *A* pair? It's a fixed head disk of 64 tracks, so I'd expect 64 such heads! RS03: 64 tracks, 64 sectors/track, 64 words (128 bytes) per sector. RS04: 64 tracks, 64 sectors/track, 128 words (256 bytes) per sector. An RS03 actually has 4 spare tracks and a timing track, while the RS04 has 8 spare tracks and a timing track, with (of course) a set of heads for each track. And, of course, a zero millisecond seek time. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon May 24 08:05:04 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. Message-ID: <990524090504.21e000d9@trailing-edge.com> >How big (storage capacity) might this device provide. 512 kbytes for the RS03, 1024 kbytes for the RS04. >As for a picture, I shall look into providing same to the newsgroup. >I do not have a web page, so some other mechanism of image >distribution will be required. Doesn't everyone here have a mid-70's PDP11 Peripheral Handbook? They've all got a picture of the RS series drives (and RM, and RP, and RK, and RX, and ...) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From jfoust at threedee.com Mon May 24 08:45:53 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: good excuse to run classic computers In-Reply-To: <31b61aa4.247706d8@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990524084553.011e8750@vpwisfirewall> At 02:58 PM 5/21/99 EDT, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: >I believe distributed.net has a similar premise where just about any computer >could help crack some encryption algorithm. >They had client software for many operating systems including my favourite, >OS/2. Even xt based machines could help out by running dos based client >software. For the past year or so, I've been running their software on machines that stay powered-on. I experimented with running the client on several older machines, and it only served to remind me of the relative slowness of the old machines. Ultimately, my frugal self said it wasn't worth the $10 in electricity a month to leave an old computer on, when nearly the same amount on a newer computer was delivering orders of magnitude more computing power. These internetworked computing projects are just a way for people to donate the cost of electricity to the communal project. If nothing else, though, the odds of winning the prize are probably better than your average state lottery, at least in the case of cracking encrypted messages. SETI is a different story. - John From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon May 24 11:05:35 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: (fwd) COMMODORE (fwd) Message-ID: Heads Up...... Conteact the person directly by e-mail if interested. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: bobm@istal.com Newsgroups: rec.radio.swap Subject: COMMODORE Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:13:27 GMT I HAVE SEVEN BOXES OF COMMODORE COMPUTERS AND ASSOCIATED ITEMS INCLUDING SEVERAL VIC 20'S, C-64, NEW 128, NEW DRIVES,NEW TAPE DRIVES DOZENS AND DOZENS OF BOOKS AND LOTS OF SOFTWARE. BEST OFFER PLUS SHIPPING DON'T BE BASHFUL, MAKE AN OFFER IF YOU WANT THIS STUFF. YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED. bobm@istal.com From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon May 24 08:26:56 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: <01bea598$bdd94f20$e99ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <199905241721.NAA06958@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 01:19:14 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Mike Ford > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier > >Usually. It depends on where you find them. XT's go for around $15 - > > Ouch! My plan is to see what people will pay me to haul off some old model > 95's, then ten minutes with a welder and I really would have "computer" > shelves. > Hi Ford, That model 95?! Is it working or gutted of its contents? I don't know if that shipping might be a problem for a heavy machine. I have been emailing you directly and got no response from your side regeading the AST CPU card. Whats up? Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 24 12:34:33 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <000401bea58d$021d50c0$0100c0a8@fuj03> from "Richard Erlacher" at May 23, 99 08:27:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990524/ad28a98f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 24 12:40:32 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Northstar Woe is NOT Me In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton - Wirehead" at May 23, 99 11:08:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1002 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990524/3660447c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 24 12:47:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. In-Reply-To: <990524090141.21e000d9@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 24, 99 09:01:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 358 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990524/dd7539f6/attachment.ksh From arfonrg at texas.net Mon May 24 13:41:51 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 2000 Harddrive Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990524134151.00914910@207.207.0.212> I snagged a Tandy 2000 30Mb harddrive this weekend!!! The actual drive is a Quantum Model (?)204(?). It is stinking huge (not mainframe huge but desktop huge)! Can anyone tell me about this drive? Is there an easy way to connect a newer HD to this machine? Arfon ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From gram at cnct.com Mon May 24 14:03:29 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 2000 Harddrive In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990524134151.00914910@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > I snagged a Tandy 2000 30Mb harddrive this weekend!!! The actual drive is a > Quantum Model (?)204(?). It is stinking huge (not mainframe huge but > desktop huge)! > > Can anyone tell me about this drive? Is there an easy way to connect a > newer HD to this machine? The only drives I recall Tandy offering for the T2k were 10 Mb. Newer or not, your only real choice is still ST506/MFM units. Somebody was once working on a way to attack SCSI drives via the Bernoulli Box interface, I never heard of any success, unlike Bob Snapp's work with the Tandy 6000. You're not going to get much use out of a larger drive, either. Remember that you're stuck with MS-DOS 2.11 on the Tandy 2000. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon May 24 13:45:51 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <199905241721.NAA06958@mail.cgocable.net> References: <01bea598$bdd94f20$e99ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: >> Ouch! My plan is to see what people will pay me to haul off some old model >> 95's, then ten minutes with a welder and I really would have "computer" >> shelves. >> >Hi Ford, > >That model 95?! Is it working or gutted of its contents? >I don't know if that shipping might be a problem for a heavy machine. > >I have been emailing you directly and got no response from your side >regeading the AST CPU card. Whats up? > >Wizard Just joking on the model 95, if I had one it would be running as a server etc. Perhaps some model 80's would be better (certainly easier to find and cheaper). After you said you wanted some of the AST cpu cards I started looking for them. When I found them, bought them, and pulled them from the old systems, I didn't really have a polite way of responding to your offer of "shipping only". Maybe I was in a bad mood. From elvey at hal.com Mon May 24 14:12:46 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905241912.MAA07084@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > And it's getting > ever harder to get working ST506 drives. Hi The biggest trouble with these drives is that the head stepper has a limit arm right where fools can get at it. Wipe the arm back and forth once, with the disk stationary, and you've made a nice groove in the surface. The other thing is on the braking of the spindle. Some used a mechanical brake but others used dynamic braking. The ones with dynamic braking are real sensitive to having the heads drag backwards because of rotational inertia. Both of these are handling issues. It does help to alway park the heads on the far end before moving the machine that has one of these drives. When removing, one should also tape a piece of cardboard over the steppers end so you don't bump the sector limit arm and move the heads sideways. Some also have spindle locks but be real careful to watch the rotational direction. Turn the spindle the same way that it normally runs, only. The reason these two things cause so much trouble is that the back side of the heads have a real sharp edge. It tends to dig into the disk like a carpenters plane. If your old setup doesn't have a head park routine, I would highly recommend that you write one. I recommend that you always park the heads every time before you power off. I have several 506's that are still running and have many hours on them. Dwight From go at ao.com Mon May 24 15:34:48 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? Message-ID: <4.1.19990524130144.03641f10@office.ao.com> Back in the days before "glass" consoles, computers often (if they had them) used typewriter devices as console input and output stations. Many minicomputers used Teletypes, but Control Data used (believe it or not) IBM Selectric typewriters. (You can bet THAT stuck in someone's craw...) This was the case on the "lower 3000" line (3150, 3200, 3300, 3500) and I believe it was the case on the sister line of "upper 3000" (3600, 3800) systems as well. On the 3300 system, the console typewriter was a "drop in" unit with a small number of cables connecting it to the system. It dropped into a well on the console operators station and sat in this well on little rubber feet. Think of a "modern" Selectric with the top of it's case only; the lower part of the case was omitted and surrounded by the "well" it sat in. For a "vintage-like" construction project, I'm trying to locate an example of this console device. It needs to be working (or repairable.) The choice of type font is unimportant at this point. I've considered picking up one of the inexpensive Selectric or Selectric-II typewriters (don't need no stupid correction mechanism) and "converting" it to operate as said console device. However, I helped a guy do this conversion once (many odd years ago) and it wasn't pretty then and doubt it would be pretty now. And the conversion didn't cover the "input" side of the equation at all. It was just a printer. Does anyone know where I can get a unit such as this? If any of you have such a thing, I would be interested in purchasing and/or trading. Contact me offline if you want to arrange a deal. If any of you have pointers to places selling these sort of things, please let me know. I've mined all my usual surplus haunts and have searched the net considerably but have yet to come up with anything "right." Thanks, Gary From arfonrg at texas.net Mon May 24 15:56:46 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 2000 Harddrive In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19990524134151.00914910@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990524155646.009c5b70@207.207.0.212> >Remember that you're stuck with MS-DOS 2.11 on the Tandy 2000. I have a 1000 and two 2000s an no OSes, BOO HOO! Anyone have any ideas where to get the OSes? >> I snagged a Tandy 2000 30Mb harddrive this weekend!!! The actual drive is a >> Quantum Model (?)204(?). It is stinking huge (not mainframe huge but >> desktop huge)! >> >> Can anyone tell me about this drive? Is there an easy way to connect a >> newer HD to this machine? > >The only drives I recall Tandy offering for the T2k were 10 Mb. > >Newer or not, your only real choice is still ST506/MFM units. >Somebody was once working on a way to attack SCSI drives via the >Bernoulli Box interface, I never heard of any success, unlike >Bob Snapp's work with the Tandy 6000. My thoughts are to pull the guts out of the cool case and drop a large IDE drive and small 486 mother board into it then run Linux as a NFS with an ARCnet card I have. Of course the purist in me will force me to mount everything to existing holes and wrap the guts up good in protective anti-static bubble wrap so I can undo everything when it loses it's novelity. Speaking of which, anyone have any Tandy computer shells that I could BUY to wedge a 486 into? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon May 24 16:00:26 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. Message-ID: <990524170026.202000bf@trailing-edge.com> >> And, of course, a zero millisecond seek time. >I thought there was a small time (<<1ms) for the read amplifier to settle >down after a head switch. In other words, the 'seek time' (really the >head switching time) was very small, but none-the-less measurable. True, but of no consequence as long as the head switching time is less than the time it takes to spin through the intersector gap. According to my RS03/04 docs, there's enough time to make such a switch between sectors. What I always found interesting about the RS-series drives were the write-protect switches. You can set six on/off switches to the binary number specifying the highest (of the total of 64) tracks that you want write-protected. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From af-list at lafleur.wfi-inc.com Mon May 24 16:07:41 1999 From: af-list at lafleur.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Bag O' Thinkpads available Message-ID: Soon to be classic... I thought someone on this list might want this stuff. I was going through another dark corner of my office and, besides the occasional Grue, stumbled upon a bag of Thinkpad 720 systems. Or rather, the remains of them. What appears to be three or four systems, with most of their parts, in pieces. These were 486 DX2/50's, and you could probably come up with at least one 100% system from the bag. 10 or 15 lbs total, from Southern Calfornia (91740 area code), if you want to figure out shipping. Let me know soon, I don't have time to mess with them and will toss them in a week or so. Cheers, Aaron From sipke at wxs.nl Mon May 24 16:28:24 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 2000 Harddrive References: <3.0.3.32.19990524134151.00914910@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <3749C478.2E2CA24D@wxs.nl> Tell me some more on the type of cables that (should) connect to it Sipke de Wal Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > > I snagged a Tandy 2000 30Mb harddrive this weekend!!! The actual drive is a > Quantum Model (?)204(?). It is stinking huge (not mainframe huge but > desktop huge)! > > Can anyone tell me about this drive? Is there an easy way to connect a > newer HD to this machine? > > Arfon > ---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... > ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # > #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## > ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### > ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### > ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### > # ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) > ---------------------------------------- > Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > > Slackware Mailing List: > http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 16:18:36 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Space, the next frontier" (May 24, 18:34) References: Message-ID: <9905242218.ZM3701@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 24, 18:34, Tony Duell wrote: > Old _working_ ST506 hard disks, however small in capacity should be kept > IMHO. They may be useless in PCs, but there are plenty of machines that > can use such drives but can't use IDE/SCSI/whatever. And it's getting > ever harder to get working ST506 drives. Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be particularly hard to come by around here. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 16:28:56 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: FONT NAME question In-Reply-To: Sipke de Wal "Re: FONT NAME question" (May 24, 12:05) References: <4.1.19990524004459.00b7e570@mcmanis.com> <37492457.B8F1B666@wxs.nl> Message-ID: <9905242228.ZM3717@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 24, 12:05, Sipke de Wal wrote: > Subject: Re: FONT NAME question > >From what I can gather it must be something very much like ARIAL but > with a bit more rounded features and the absence of a slant-end on > the top of the 't' > > Maybe you could make it yourself with a tt-font-editor. taking one > of the ARIAL-fonts as a starting point. > > Anyone know the name of the font used in the old "d|i|g|i|t|a|l" logo? I'm > > trying to reconstruct it (I've found a couple of gif files but I'd really > > like line art) for reproduction. Compaq is squashing this logo fast so > > seeing it is getting harder and harder! It's not very close to Arial. It's almost exactly standard Helvetica Bold. I have hundreds of PostScript fonts (I used to be in the printing business) and I couldn't find an exact match. However, PostScript fonts are just vector graphic descriptions, and I have software that can read those into a vector drawing package, so I just took Helvetica as starting point and tweaked it. The result isn't *exactly* right, but very close. You can have a PostScript copy of that if you want it... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From Bob.Yates at amana.com Mon May 24 16:42:05 1999 From: Bob.Yates at amana.com (Bob Yates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Bag O' Thinkpads available Message-ID: <199905242135.QAA08119@amcni-fw.amana.com> Interested, 72020 ZIP code about $10, depending on size and pickup location Bob bobyates@steward-net.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Bag O' Thinkpads available Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at NetTalk Date: 05/24/1999 4:07 PM Soon to be classic... I thought someone on this list might want this stuff. I was going through another dark corner of my office and, besides the occasional Grue, stumbled upon a bag of Thinkpad 720 systems. Or rather, the remains of them. What appears to be three or four systems, with most of their parts, in pieces. These were 486 DX2/50's, and you could probably come up with at least one 100% system from the bag. 10 or 15 lbs total, from Southern Calfornia (91740 area code), if you want to figure out shipping. Let me know soon, I don't have time to mess with them and will toss them in a week or so. Cheers, Aaron From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 24 18:07:23 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990524180723.3bffa7d0@intellistar.net> Hi, I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference there? Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the commands to operate them? Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon May 24 17:00:49 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990524130144.03641f10@office.ao.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 1999, Gary Oliver wrote: > I've considered picking up one of the inexpensive Selectric > or Selectric-II typewriters (don't need no stupid correction > mechanism) and "converting" it to operate as said console device. > However, I helped a guy do this conversion once (many odd years > ago) and it wasn't pretty then and doubt it would be pretty now. > And the conversion didn't cover the "input" side of the equation > at all. It was just a printer. > Does anyone know where I can get a unit such as this? If any > of you have such a thing, I would be interested in purchasing > and/or trading. I have the "Systems Diagrams" manual for an MTST, which comes with a "typewriter" portion of an MTST, which is full I/O. Do NOT have the desk pedestal sized power supply, etc. It is currently promised to Sam, but for appropriate incentive, perhaps he would relinquich his claim and send it to you? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 17:04:39 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Centronics 739 printer Message-ID: <9905242304.ZM3780@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Amongst my collection is a Centronics 739 printer, which needs a new EPROM (the old one is corrupt). Needless to say, Centronics have no parts for a ~1980 printer, so does anyone here have one I could a get a dump of? Unfortunately, my collection of "useful ROM images" has only the 737 version (almost exactly the same, but without the graphics capability). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From roblwill at usaor.net Mon May 24 20:05:11 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: IBM Optical drives... A few questions Message-ID: <01bea64a$a35ca0e0$af9ba6d1@the-general> Hi! I just got two IBM Optical drives, complete with drivers, controllers, operator's manual, and service manual. Now for the questions: -Are there updated drivers for these drives? The ones that cane with it run the driver as a DOS shell, which takes up a bunch of memory, and slows down the entire computer (also won't work with Windows). - Does anyone have an ISA controller card for one of these drives? Both controller cards I got are MCA, and I only have one MCA machine (The Model 80 runs OS/2, and I don't have OS/2 drivers), which is a P70. I have the external drive (I got an internal and an external) on there, and it works, but no way of testing the internal (I was going to use it on my Pentium). - Sometimes, when I put in a disk, and try to read it, I get a "General Failure" error. I take the disk out, put it back in, and it works. I think there was a discussion about this before. Do I just need to clean the disks? -The drives that I have are 3363's, and the disks I have are 3363 200MB Single Sided cartridges (IBM). Can I use other types of Optical disks, or do I have to use the IBM 3363 ones? Last question (for now...) I've heard (I think it was on this list) that the 3363 is a WORM drive. However, it allows you to delete files, but you don't get any added space when the file is deleted (as if the file is still there). If the file is actually gone, where did the empty space go, and is there any way to get it back? Or is the file still there, and it being 'deleted' is it just an optical illusion (no pun intended)? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Mon May 24 20:15:27 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions Message-ID: <01bea64c$13025d80$af9ba6d1@the-general> I have a (miraculously) surviving (sort of) 1986 DatEXT external CD-ROM on my IBM 5170 AT. The unit was working fine when I powered it down and moved the computer across my basement a few months ago. When I powered it up today, the CD-ROM driver will load, but it won't read any disks. I took it apart to see if the drive was spinning up, and the first thing I noticed was that the little plastic labels covering the window on a couple of the EPROMs (or is it EEPROMS?) were peeling off (no longer sticky after 13 years). I'm guessing that this is the problem. Does anyone know where to get EPROM images for this drive, and how would I upload them to the chips? I'm assuming that I would need an EPROM burner. Where would I find one? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 24 16:06:21 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <199905241912.MAA07084@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at May 24, 99 12:12:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1948 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990524/e9b252e2/attachment.ksh From roblwill at usaor.net Mon May 24 20:21:57 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <01bea64c$fafd9280$af9ba6d1@the-general> Talking about ST 506's, I have an old 5 MB one. It spins up, but I need a controller for it. The only XT MFM controller I have is a WD XT-GEN, and they don't work with the 506's. Anyone have a spare controller that they don't need? Preferably an old IBM?? ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:18 PM Subject: Re[2]: Space, the next frontier >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> And it's getting >> ever harder to get working ST506 drives. > >Hi > The biggest trouble with these drives is that the head >stepper has a limit arm right where fools can get at >it. Wipe the arm back and forth once, with the disk >stationary, and you've made a nice groove in the surface. >The other thing is on the braking of the spindle. Some >used a mechanical brake but others used dynamic braking. >The ones with dynamic braking are real sensitive to >having the heads drag backwards because of rotational >inertia. Both of these are handling issues. It does >help to alway park the heads on the far end before >moving the machine that has one of these drives. When >removing, one should also tape a piece of cardboard over >the steppers end so you don't bump the sector limit arm >and move the heads sideways. Some also have spindle locks >but be real careful to watch the rotational direction. >Turn the spindle the same way that it normally runs, only. > The reason these two things cause so much trouble is that >the back side of the heads have a real sharp edge. It tends >to dig into the disk like a carpenters plane. > If your old setup doesn't have a head park routine, I >would highly recommend that you write one. I recommend >that you always park the heads every time before you power >off. I have several 506's that are still running and >have many hours on them. >Dwight > > From max82 at surfree.com Mon May 24 16:38:47 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <9905242218.ZM3701@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: >Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface >hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be >particularly hard to come by around here. There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From af-list at lafleur.wfi-inc.com Mon May 24 17:42:27 1999 From: af-list at lafleur.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Bag O' Thinkpads Gone, thanks! Message-ID: Wow, I sure didn't expect such a response for these! Several vigilant members of the list responded within a couple of minutes of the post, so they're gone. Thanks! Aaron From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 17:57:20 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Max Eskin "Re: Space, the next frontier" (May 24, 17:38) References: Message-ID: <9905242357.ZM3983@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 24, 17:38, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier > On Mon, 24 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface > >hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be > >particularly hard to come by around here. > > There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? Yes, Seagate made quite a lot of them at one time. So did Teac, NEC and WD. The first 3.5" ones were Rodimes, though. The hard drive system sitting on the BBC Micro beside me has one: it's a home-designed system which has an Adaptec ACB4000 controller (which is SCSI, but SASI-compatible), and a BBC 1MHz Bus to SASI adapter, and presently has an NEC 40MB 3.5" drive in it. Originally it had one of the first 10MB 3.5" Rodime RO352 drives (which is now in a modified DEC TK50Z box, pretending to be an RD51). I still have the receipts somewhere; I think the drive cost about ?400 in the mid-80s. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From edick at idcomm.com Mon May 24 18:04:28 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question Message-ID: <000c01bea639$c71f0c40$0100c0a8@fuj03> If you poke around a bit you may find that the three extra memory IC's contain the BASIC interpreter which was sold as an add-on. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 4:01 PM Subject: AIM 65 question >Hi, > > I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >there? > > Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >commands to operate them? > > Joe > From elvey at hal.com Mon May 24 18:29:34 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <01bea64c$fafd9280$af9ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <199905242329.QAA07115@civic.hal.com> "Jason (the General)" wrote: > Talking about ST 506's, I have an old 5 MB one. It spins up, but I need > a > controller for it. The only XT MFM controller I have is a WD XT-GEN, and > they don't work with the 506's. > > Anyone have a spare controller that they don't need? Preferably an old > IBM?? Hi As far as I know, the PC issue with the 5MB is a data format issue and has nothing to do with the controller. I use a XT controller with my NC4000 chip but I don't use the ROM that came with it since it obviously doesn't run 8086 code. As I recall, it was were the second copy of the directory was placed that required a minimum of 10 Meg. Of course, I could be wrong here. Dwight PS Tony Yes I was talking about a 5 Meg'er. Sorry if I confused things. Still, many older drives should still be properly parked. From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Mon May 24 18:51:37 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: The Handbook of DEC Handbooks - status report. Message-ID: <199905242351.TAA03878@golden.net> A while back many of you helped me compile a long list of DEC handbooks. I want to publish a beautiful book about them and it would also be a collector's guide. Well our combined efforts needed both more information to complete the list and it also needed an authority to confirm the completeness of our list. To do this I contacted a number of people at DEC/Compaq and finally got to a Mr. Stephen Dougherty. He was excited about the project and told me to get back to him in a week. This would give me time do some internal exploring. That was 2 months ago. His mail doesn't bounce back so he must still be working for Compaq, but he isn't replying. Thus the project is on hold. My investigation did some good though. The photo-archivist at Compaq was about to finalize arrangements to transfer DEC's archives to MIT when I introduced them to the Charles Babbage Institute. It doesn't matter who gets the photographs as long as they are preserved, but at least now, with the advice and encouragement of the professionals at the CBI, we will hopefully discover that all sorts of other important DEC memorabilia will be preserved. Take care ya'all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon May 24 20:08:30 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question In-Reply-To: <000c01bea639$c71f0c40$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990524200830.527f3e9a@intellistar.net> Dick, You're right. One IC contains an assembler and the other two contain BASIC. The small ICs are additional memory, a whole whopping 4K! Joe At 05:04 PM 5/24/99 -0600, you wrote: >If you poke around a bit you may find that the three extra memory IC's >contain the BASIC interpreter which was sold as an add-on. > >Dick > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 4:01 PM >Subject: AIM 65 question > > >>Hi, >> >> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >>there? >> >> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >>commands to operate them? >> >> Joe >> > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 24 17:34:56 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990524180723.3bffa7d0@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at May 24, 99 06:07:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 668 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990524/d999c5eb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 24 17:39:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <9905242218.ZM3701@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 24, 99 09:18:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1139 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990524/eb1d2e20/attachment.ksh From max82 at surfree.com Mon May 24 18:15:17 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions In-Reply-To: <01bea64c$13025d80$af9ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: >of the EPROMs (or is it EEPROMS?) were peeling off (no longer sticky after >13 years). I'm guessing that this is the problem. Actually, that's not the reason. When I had the drive, I took it apart, and couldn't resist peeking under the tape :) I see no reason why they should get erased if the drive cover was on, and the drive was in the basement where it's usually dark. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon May 24 15:31:35 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: <9905242218.ZM3701@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <199905250025.UAA05869@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:38:47 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Max Eskin > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > On Mon, 24 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface > >hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be > >particularly hard to come by around here. > > There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? Oh yes! They DO exists. Ditto to 3.5" and 5.25" with IDE on it. Miniscribe, Microscience, Seagate, and knock-off clones of ST225/ST251 in 3.5" factor form too closely to "seagate's"! Most of them die fast due to poor cooling and poor design. Wizard From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon May 24 17:05:38 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:14 2005 Subject: FONT NAME question In-Reply-To: <9905242228.ZM3717@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 24, 99 09:28:56 pm Message-ID: <199905242205.PAA03950@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990524/09499586/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon May 24 19:40:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at May 24, 99 05:38:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/b26a4382/attachment.ksh From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon May 24 20:14:20 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: FONT NAME question In-Reply-To: <199905242205.PAA03950@oa.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "May 24, 1999 3: 5:38 pm" Message-ID: <199905250114.VAA03352@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > ::It's not very close to Arial. It's almost exactly standard Helvetica Bold. > > Could be Futura. > Nah the futura lower case a's are made with the old circle and straight line. (kind of like early first grade printing...) It's a Helvetica Bold reversed. DEC even said it was Helvetica until they made some changes in the 89-91 timeframe when they went maroon from the blue and white. Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon May 24 20:15:24 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: from Max Eskin at "May 24, 1999 5:38:47 pm" Message-ID: <199905250115.VAA03373@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > On Mon, 24 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface > >hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be > >particularly hard to come by around here. > > There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power One of the most common brands was the old miniscribe and the Tandon I've got here (252?) as a spare for my Panasonic Sr. Partner. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon May 24 20:36:22 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <199905250136.AA03827@world.std.com> 5 are selected). Getting the right Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: >And you have to know that little detail beforhand. Then there is the >matter of formatting as some can't (require the disk to be formatted else >where) and some require special software if they can. Now, I've heard of this before, but I can't understand why anyone would want to do this. And, where is 'else where'? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From cfandt at netsync.net Mon May 24 21:07:27 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: DEC's archives was: Re: The Handbook of DEC Handbooks - status report. In-Reply-To: <199905242351.TAA03878@golden.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990524213710.00abd850@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:51 PM 5/24/99 -0400, Unusual systems said something like: -- snip -- >My investigation did some good though. The photo-archivist at Compaq was >about to finalize arrangements to transfer DEC's archives to MIT when I >introduced them to the Charles Babbage Institute. It doesn't matter who gets >the photographs as long as they are preserved, but at least now, with the >advice and encouragement of the professionals at the CBI, we will hopefully >discover that all sorts of other important DEC memorabilia will be preserved. Great move Kevin! I'm not sure about MIT's abilities at maintaining an archive of important docs and photos as I am not familiar with their abilities. CBI is a an excellent choice as they're a responsible organization setup to maintain such archival material. And some of it is accessable to us as researchers. Just by looking thru the Search aids they offer on their website, there is a great deal of detailed info a researcher could look at. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From roblwill at usaor.net Mon May 24 23:51:05 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <01bea66a$32bddb40$ee8ea6d1@the-general> I read somewhere that they work with the ST-506 interface, but certain (newer) revisions won't work with the original 5MB ST-506. I don't know why - I just know it won't work with the one that I have. I think mine has a copyright date of 1989. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: Space, the next frontier > >???? they don't???? I thought they were commonly found with ST506s! At >least that's the only one besides the ST412 (10mb) I've ever seen one with. > >Allison > > From roblwill at usaor.net Tue May 25 00:00:23 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <01bea66b$7f3a6f00$ee8ea6d1@the-general> I believe _Some_ of the Tandy 1000's were like this. My TX originally had some *unknown* brand HardCard with a MicroScience 3.5" MFM drive. The drive always worked good (made a neat "chunking" noise instead of chirping), until the spindle motor died (or something died). It wasn't frozen - it just wouldn't go. It also had a "ready" and "access" light (red and green). I ended up replacing it with a WD HardCard, which is about 50% slower than the MicroScience. Anyone have one of those old MicroScience drives that they want to get rid of? My Tandy 1000 (no suffix) is yearning for its HardCard back :) The model number of the drive was HH325. ThAnX, ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier >On Mon, 24 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: >>And you have to know that little detail beforhand. Then there is the >>matter of formatting as some can't (require the disk to be formatted else >>where) and some require special software if they can. > >Now, I've heard of this before, but I can't understand why anyone would >want to do this. And, where is 'else where'? > >--Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 21:14:48 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: FONT NAME question In-Reply-To: Cameron Kaiser "Re: FONT NAME question" (May 24, 15:05) References: <199905242205.PAA03950@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <9905250314.ZM4240@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 24, 15:05, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Subject: Re: FONT NAME question > ::It's not very close to Arial. It's almost exactly standard Helvetica Bold. > > Could be Futura. I can't remember now for sure, but I think I tried Futura (well, it's one of the obvious ones, so I'm sure I did) and found Helvetica a better match. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon May 24 21:13:04 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Space, the next frontier" (May 24, 23:39) References: Message-ID: <9905250313.ZM4236@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 24, 23:39, Tony Duell wrote: > The other 'nasty' is machines that will only take a limited number of > hard disk types (geometries). Sometimes only 2 or 3 drives are supported, > and you can bet that they'll either be almost impossible to find a drive > with all parameters in excess of the ones needed, or it will actually > verify that the drive has the specified geometry (e.g. checking that a '6 > head' drive doesn't work when heads >5 are selected). Tell me about it :-( > Getting the right > spare drive for one of those can really drive you insane. How do you think I got to be like this? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon May 24 22:00:25 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990524200025.0093b3f0@agora.rdrop.com> So... proving yet again that I just can't turn away a computer in need of a home, I find myself looking at an Apollo Computers DSP90-3M computer with an SMDE drive that is supposed to have the Apollo operating system on it. (I was just expecting drives!) I've got absolutely no background in Apollo gear, so I've got equally no idea what it is that I'm looking at! Anyone care to offer any insights? And... anyone care to offer it a home??? (I'm just NOT sure I'm ready to branch down the Apollo line...) --- Parallel but random thot... In loading this latest group of items into the 'Garage', and having recently crawled thru the warehouse trying to find something... I'm strongly thinking of staging an 'archeological dig' and equipment redistribution following the CP/M User's Group swap meet here in a couple of weeks... If there is sufficient interest! And perhaps even a tour thru the 'Garage' for those with even more of an 'Indiana Jones' bent... --- See? You have to real ALL of the messages or you might miss something really interesting that is not in the title! B^} -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From red at bears.org Mon May 24 22:00:55 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990524200025.0093b3f0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 1999, James Willing wrote: > Anyone care to offer any insights? And... anyone care to offer it a home??? > (I'm just NOT sure I'm ready to branch down the Apollo line...) I can offer insights, if you prod me with specific questions. Or alternately adopt it if it comes to that. > And perhaps even a tour thru the 'Garage' for those with even more of an > 'Indiana Jones' bent... I could be interested depending on scheduling... ok r. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon May 24 22:19:02 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <199905250319.AA16511@world.std.com> <>And you have to know that little detail beforhand. Then there is the <>matter of formatting as some can't (require the disk to be formatted else <>where) and some require special software if they can. < <> Could be Futura. < Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: > Talking about ST 506's, I have an old 5 MB one. It spins up, but I need a > controller for it. The only XT MFM controller I have is a WD XT-GEN, and > they don't work with the 506's. Yours apparently does not have the BIOS with the Dynamic Formatter which is not limited to just the jumper selectable drives. - don > Anyone have a spare controller that they don't need? Preferably an old > IBM?? > > ThAnX, > ///--->>> > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dwight Elvey > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:18 PM > Subject: Re[2]: Space, the next frontier > > > >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > >> And it's getting > >> ever harder to get working ST506 drives. > > > >Hi > > The biggest trouble with these drives is that the head > >stepper has a limit arm right where fools can get at > >it. Wipe the arm back and forth once, with the disk > >stationary, and you've made a nice groove in the surface. > >The other thing is on the braking of the spindle. Some > >used a mechanical brake but others used dynamic braking. > >The ones with dynamic braking are real sensitive to > >having the heads drag backwards because of rotational > >inertia. Both of these are handling issues. It does > >help to alway park the heads on the far end before > >moving the machine that has one of these drives. When > >removing, one should also tape a piece of cardboard over > >the steppers end so you don't bump the sector limit arm > >and move the heads sideways. Some also have spindle locks > >but be real careful to watch the rotational direction. > >Turn the spindle the same way that it normally runs, only. > > The reason these two things cause so much trouble is that > >the back side of the heads have a real sharp edge. It tends > >to dig into the disk like a carpenters plane. > > If your old setup doesn't have a head park routine, I > >would highly recommend that you write one. I recommend > >that you always park the heads every time before you power > >off. I have several 506's that are still running and > >have many hours on them. > >Dwight > > > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/ visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://www.devili.iki.fi/cpm/ with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm/ From donm at cts.com Mon May 24 22:40:46 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <9905242357.ZM3983@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 24, 17:38, Max Eskin wrote: > > Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier > > On Mon, 24 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > >Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interfa= ce > > >hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to = be > > >particularly hard to come by around here. > > > > There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? >=20 > Yes, Seagate made quite a lot of them at one time. So did Teac, NEC and > WD. The first 3.5" ones were Rodimes, though. The hard drive system As did Fuji, Fujitsu, Hitachi, Kalok, Kyocera, Lapine, Microscience,=20 Miniscribe, NEC, Syquest, Tandon, and others that I have skipped over. =09=09=09=09=09=09 - don > sitting on the BBC Micro beside me has one: it's a home-designed system > which has an Adaptec ACB4000 controller (which is SCSI, but > SASI-compatible), and a BBC 1MHz Bus to SASI adapter, and presently has a= n > NEC 40MB 3.5" drive in it. Originally it had one of the first 10MB 3.5" > Rodime RO352 drives (which is now in a modified DEC TK50Z box, pretending > to be an RD51). I still have the receipts somewhere; I think the drive > cost about =A3400 in the mid-80s. >=20 > --=20 >=20 > Pete=09=09=09=09=09=09Peter Turnbull > =09=09=09=09=09=09Dept. of Computer Science > =09=09=09=09=09=09University of York >=20 donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/ visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://www.devili.iki.fi/cpm/ =09 with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm/ From zmerch at 30below.com Tue May 25 00:19:30 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions In-Reply-To: References: <01bea64c$13025d80$af9ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990525011930.009fd5f0@mail.30below.com> On or about 07:15 PM 5/24/99 -0400, Max Eskin was caught in a dark alley speaking these words: >On Mon, 24 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: >>of the EPROMs (or is it EEPROMS?) were peeling off (no longer sticky after >>13 years). I'm guessing that this is the problem. If there's a quartz window in the chip, it's an EPROM. EEPROMs are erased electrically (hence the first 'E' in the name) and don't require a window for erasure. >Actually, that's not the reason. When I had the drive, I took it apart, >and couldn't resist peeking under the tape :) I see no reason why they >should get erased if the drive cover was on, and the drive was in the >basement where it's usually dark. You're right about the EPROMs not being deliberately erased... but one of the *early* discussions on this list was about the data integrity or data "life" of your average EPROMs... which is only 10-15 years or so. It sounds like you may have a case of bit-rot, and reprogramming the eproms may be necessary to restore the drive to working order. Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger ===== Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch@30below.com SysAdmin - Iceberg Computers ===== Merch's Wild Wisdom of the Moment: ===== Sometimes you know, you just don't know sometimes, you know? From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon May 24 19:19:49 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990524130144.03641f10@office.ao.com> Message-ID: <199905250419.AAA28143@smtp.interlog.com> On 24 May 99 at 13:34, Gary Oliver wrote: > Back in the days before "glass" consoles, computers often (if > they had them) used typewriter devices as console input and > output stations. Many minicomputers used Teletypes, but Control > Data used (believe it or not) IBM Selectric typewriters. > (You can bet THAT stuck in someone's craw...) This was the case > on the "lower 3000" line (3150, 3200, 3300, 3500) and I believe > it was the case on the sister line of "upper 3000" (3600, 3800) > systems as well. > > On the 3300 system, the console typewriter was a "drop in" unit > with a small number of cables connecting it to the system. It > dropped into a well on the console operators station and sat in > this well on little rubber feet. Think of a "modern" Selectric > with the top of it's case only; the lower part of the case was > omitted and surrounded by the "well" it sat in. > > For a "vintage-like" construction project, I'm trying to locate > an example of this console device. It needs to be working (or > repairable.) The choice of type font is unimportant at this > point. > > I've considered picking up one of the inexpensive Selectric > or Selectric-II typewriters (don't need no stupid correction > mechanism) and "converting" it to operate as said console device. > However, I helped a guy do this conversion once (many odd years > ago) and it wasn't pretty then and doubt it would be pretty now. > And the conversion didn't cover the "input" side of the equation > at all. It was just a printer. > > Does anyone know where I can get a unit such as this? If any > of you have such a thing, I would be interested in purchasing > and/or trading. > > Contact me offline if you want to arrange a deal. > > If any of you have pointers to places selling these sort > of things, please let me know. I've mined all my usual surplus > haunts and have searched the net considerably but have yet to > come up with anything "right." > > Thanks, > > Gary > If you can get ahold of a copy of Don Lancasters "TV-Typewriter Cookbook" it has the conversion process. I believe he also has a web-page which might possibly have something on this. ISTR that it was also documented in Byte magazine. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon May 24 19:19:48 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 2000 Harddrive In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990524155646.009c5b70@207.207.0.212> References: Message-ID: <199905250419.AAA28183@smtp.interlog.com> On 24 May 99 at 15:56, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > >Remember that you're stuck with MS-DOS 2.11 on the Tandy 2000. > > I have a 1000 and two 2000s an no OSes, BOO HOO! Anyone have any ideas > where to get the OSes? > > > >> I snagged a Tandy 2000 30Mb harddrive this weekend!!! The actual drive is a > >> Quantum Model (?)204(?). It is stinking huge (not mainframe huge but > >> desktop huge)! > >> > >> Can anyone tell me about this drive? Is there an easy way to connect a > >> newer HD to this machine? > > > >The only drives I recall Tandy offering for the T2k were 10 Mb. > > > >Newer or not, your only real choice is still ST506/MFM units. > >Somebody was once working on a way to attack SCSI drives via the > >Bernoulli Box interface, I never heard of any success, unlike > >Bob Snapp's work with the Tandy 6000. > TMK Tandy still sells the 2.11 for the 2000. It has a 186 cpu so it's somewhat unique. They also have a lot of info on the 1K and 2K models and their HDDs and controllers. You can use MSDOS 5 on the 1000s but there were some problematic issues regarding losing the ROM-based Tandy OS in some models. Therte's also a 2000 faq out there. Possibly on TV-Dogs site which also has a lot of info on these models. Don't have the URLs handy. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From donm at crash.cts.com Mon May 24 23:30:38 1999 From: donm at crash.cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: (fwd) Xerox 820 FS/T/donate Message-ID: From: Don Maslin To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Subject: (fwd) Xerox 820 FS/T/donate -- forwarded message -- Path: nusku.cts.com!mercury.cts.com!nntp.flash.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!cyclone.columbus.rr.com!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!elnws02.ce.mediaone.net!24.131.129.73!rmnws01.ce.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-fr-mail Message-ID: <37499BD0.19633D48@ce.mediaone.net> From: Dan Lurey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOEATL (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.xerox Subject: Xerox 820 FS/T/donate Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:34:56 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.29.200.133 X-Trace: rmnws01.ce.mediaone.net 927571374 24.29.200.133 (Mon, 24 May 1999 13:42:54 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:42:54 CDT Organization: MediaOne Express -=- Central Region Xref: nusku.cts.com comp.sys.xerox:339 I'm tired of tripping over an old 820 w/ 2-8" FDD's & monitor. I also have s/w, manuals, and a couple of main boards (one bare???). Help me find a home for this! PLEASE!!!??? -- Dan Lurey E-Mail: dlurey@mediaone.net ----- Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. -- end of forwarded message -- From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue May 25 00:21:57 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M Message-ID: <19990525.002238.233.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Hey, are these Apollos the ones with the *GIANT* SMD disk units? The ones I saw were *HUGE* 9" CDC's that had been refurbed by Seagate! They were mounted in a big tray (kinda like a SABRE, but bigger), with a powersupply, and some controller electronix. This whole mess was about a foot square, by maybe 2 feet deep. DOes that sound like it? On Mon, 24 May 1999 23:00:55 -0400 (EDT) "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" writes: >On Mon, 24 May 1999, James Willing wrote: > >> Anyone care to offer any insights? And... anyone care to offer it a >home??? >> (I'm just NOT sure I'm ready to branch down the Apollo line...) > >I can offer insights, if you prod me with specific questions. Or >alternately adopt it if it comes to that. > >> And perhaps even a tour thru the 'Garage' for those with even more >of an >> 'Indiana Jones' bent... > >I could be interested depending on scheduling... > >ok >r. > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From wrking at tsoft.com Mon May 24 22:21:32 1999 From: wrking at tsoft.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: DEC copyright question In-Reply-To: <199905240702.AAA22082@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <000001bea65d$afd89a50$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> I've read that DEC granted unrestricted reproduction rights to their old documentation. I'd like to confirm this before I announce to the world the URL where a PDF version of the PDT 11/150 mini maintenance manual can be found. Any information regarding this topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill From hhacker at home.com Tue May 25 00:48:00 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Strange DEC heavyweight. Message-ID: <059301bea672$2657e690$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> Tim: Thank you so much for this, and the earlier, message regarding the RS11. I will look into my handbooks, though I must admit to having only a few (like three) such manuals, and in them I have not found descriptions of all the hardware that I have to date obtained. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:06 AM Subject: Re: Strange DEC heavyweight. >>How big (storage capacity) might this device provide. > >512 kbytes for the RS03, 1024 kbytes for the RS04. > >>As for a picture, I shall look into providing same to the newsgroup. >>I do not have a web page, so some other mechanism of image >>distribution will be required. > >Doesn't everyone here have a mid-70's PDP11 Peripheral Handbook? They've >all got a picture of the RS series drives (and RM, and RP, and RK, and >RX, and ...) > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From hhacker at home.com Tue May 25 00:49:54 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question Message-ID: <059c01bea672$6a4e9510$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM Subject: AIM 65 question >Hi, > > I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >there? > > Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >commands to operate them? > > Joe > From wrm at ccii.co.za Tue May 25 01:17:32 1999 From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: core... more Message-ID: <199905250619.IAA26009@ccii.co.za> Hi Chuck and all I've posted some pictures of the NCR core memory that I have on http://ccii.dockside.co.za/~wrm/ccc/index.html. There's also a picture of a PC network card (large thing with a Z80 on) that I'd like to identify. Wouter From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue May 25 04:57:54 1999 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: A step in the right direction... Message-ID: <8025677C.0036C576.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Hi! I saw this on our company bulletin board. A step in the right direction, but what happened to mending things? Philip. ********************************************** Facilities are pleased to announce the introduction to Westwood of the Environ Computer Recycling Scheme. Set up in August 1998 with East Midlands Electricity, the ECR scheme involves the refurbishment of IT equipment donated by companies. All original data is destroyed for full confidentiality. The computers are checked for electrical safety and to ensure they are in full working order. They are then refurbished and new software is loaded. The computers are then sold as full systems to non profit groups and for educational use. A small number are available for general sale. All non working equipment is recycled to extract useful and valuable materials, thereby reducing the amount of waste sent to landfill. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk ********************************************************************** From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue May 25 06:07:29 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question In-Reply-To: <059c01bea672$6a4e9510$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home .com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990525060729.3bf72638@intellistar.net> They are. Two are optional BASIC and the other is optional Assembler. Joe At 10:49 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. > >William R. Buckley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM >Subject: AIM 65 question > > >>Hi, >> >> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >>there? >> >> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >>commands to operate them? >> >> Joe >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue May 25 06:10:56 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990524200025.0093b3f0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990525061056.3eb7f8d6@intellistar.net> At 08:00 PM 5/24/99 -0700, James wrote: >So... proving yet again that I just can't turn away a computer in need of a >home, I find myself looking at an Apollo Computers DSP90-3M computer with >an SMDE drive that is supposed to have the Apollo operating system on it. >(I was just expecting drives!) > >I've got absolutely no background in Apollo gear, so I've got equally no >idea what it is that I'm looking at! > >Anyone care to offer any insights? And... anyone care to offer it a home??? >(I'm just NOT sure I'm ready to branch down the Apollo line...) > If it's one of the ones with the 8" floppy drives then I have some disks for it. I'm not ready to start adopting Apollos either but I just picked up a *SECOND* HP Apollo 425T. It was in a basket of stuff to be scrapped that day and I couldn't stand to see it ground up. Joe From evilnet_genesis at hotmail.com Tue May 25 14:39:07 1999 From: evilnet_genesis at hotmail.com (John Doe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 L40 SX Booting Message-ID: <19990525123925.90865.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi! At the moment I’m rather an unhappy user of an old PS/2 laptop computer. Why unhappy? I’m not able to boot it up, alltrough i tried everything, started from disassembling it to the smallest part to changing the 3,5” floppy disk drive and so on. I would really appreciate any information or hint about starting it up. O.k, these are the specs of the machine: Machine: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX Proc.: i386DX @ 20 Mhz RAM: 2 Mb on-board (the two blue memory slots are still free) HDD: 60 Mb (Conner, Model CP2067, no OS on it) FDD: 3,5” 1.44 Mb (Panasonic, Model JU-237A03W, P/N 72X6074) < ! The problem is that the FDD activity LED does not light up when the computer is started, even when a disk is in the drive. Only the LCD symbol of the 3,5” disk drive on the computer panel goes on, but nothing happens. I never had the chance to work on PS/2 computers and so I don’t know what to do now. I’ve checked all connections and all cables. It seem like the FDD doesn’t get any power input from the board, but i’m not sure. I think that the problem is somewhere else. Later when the BIOS tries to boot up from the hard disk, a message in Danish appears telling that the command interpreter (COMMAND.COM) couldn’t be found … (The computer has a Danish BIOS on-board). Please help me, I need help as soon as possible. Mail all hints and/or advices to evilnet_genesis@yahoo.com or evilnet_genesis@hotmail.com. If nobody can’t help me then please give me some links or adresses, where I can find informations. Thank you! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue May 25 09:31:44 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M In-Reply-To: <19990525.002238.233.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 1999 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > Hey, are these Apollos the ones with the *GIANT* SMD disk units? > The ones I saw were *HUGE* 9" CDC's that had been refurbed by > Seagate! They were mounted in a big tray (kinda like a SABRE, > but bigger), with a powersupply, and some controller electronix. > > This whole mess was about a foot square, by maybe 2 feet deep. > DOes that sound like it? Yep, that is pretty close to the truth... But what can I DO with it? B^} -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 25 09:31:14 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question Message-ID: <002d01bea6bb$3ed38fa0$0100c0a8@fuj03> NOW . . . The interesting question is whether the firmware versions you have support the ROCKWELL CMOS versions or only the NMOS parts. Rockwell made the AIM 65 its evaluation system for their entry in the 6502 market, but their CMOS version is the one whose instruction set I thought was the best of all of them. If your AIM boards have the assembler and BASIC interpreter for the CMOS version, that's something to hang onto since it's still current as far as the compatible cores are concerned. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 4:15 AM Subject: Re: AIM 65 question >They are. Two are optional BASIC and the other is optional Assembler. > > Joe > >At 10:49 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >>These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. >> >>William R. Buckley >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joe >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >>Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM >>Subject: AIM 65 question >> >> >>>Hi, >>> >>> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >>>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >>>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >>>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >>>there? >>> >>> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >>>commands to operate them? >>> >>> Joe >>> >> >> > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue May 25 09:39:58 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions In-Reply-To: <01bea64c$13025d80$af9ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990525093958.0114d670@vpwisfirewall> At 06:15 PM 5/24/99 -0700, Jason (the General) wrote: >The unit was working fine when I powered it down and moved the computer >across my basement a few months ago. When I powered it up today, the CD-ROM >driver will load, but it won't read any disks. Have you tried to read a *contemporary* CD, or a CD that you know is in pure old-style ISO-9660 CD format? Some of the newer extensions could be throwing the driver for a loop. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue May 25 09:49:52 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: TCPIP via ethernet under DOS? (I know that is possible...but!) In-Reply-To: <199905220450.AAA10297@mail.cgocable.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990525094952.010e85c0@vpwisfirewall> At 12:56 AM 5/22/99 +0000, jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote: >Here is I have this: >Cable modem, few classic and (few not so-classic) machines w/ >ethernet cards, DOS. Any luck so far? Given a spare moment, I could dig into my system to see how I did it. I remember using a solution using a packet radio driver and an 'ftp' program that I used before Win 3.11 networking came along. As to be expected of DOS, it mucked with a slew of drivers in CONFIG.SYS. I'm sure it was fixed IP, so your best bet would be to set up a firewall Linux box to connect to the cable modem, and run your old boxes on a subnet with fixed IPs that can talk to the firewall to get to the net. - John From rickb at pail.enginet.com Tue May 25 10:50:33 1999 From: rickb at pail.enginet.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001501bea6c6$52be6f20$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> As I remember the DSP-90 was a rockin' machine for its time...the 'king of servers' machine. Mentor Graphics had a bunch of these sitting in a room with LOTS of Air Conditioning in it...to act as a simulation farm for their logic simulation software. As I remember...I think that the machine used all ECL logic for the CPU. It sucked up a lot of juice, and made a lot of heat. I seem to remember, but not completely sure, that the CPU was essentially an ECL implementation of a 68000...a comparatively very fast 68000. It should be preserved if possible...Apollos in general *could* have been the engineering workstation of choice had Apollo not made some silly 'closed architecture' blunders. Their OS and Network environment has solid features that today are still not real solid in the Unix/NT worlds. Rick Bensene From elvey at hal.com Tue May 25 12:04:58 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990525011930.009fd5f0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <199905251704.KAA10224@civic.hal.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: ---snip--- > > You're right about the EPROMs not being deliberately erased... but one of > the *early* discussions on this list was about the data integrity or data > "life" of your average EPROMs... which is only 10-15 years or so. Hi As far as I know, EPROMs should last more than 10 years. This was the value that Intel set as a minimum guaranteed hold time for their 2716's, that I remember. It is always possible that any particular EPROM doesn't hold even that long. The average hold time for EPROMs is surely greater than 20 to 30 years. I have some 1702A's that are still holding data after 26 years. I've made copies and have a listing just in case though. I've made hex listings of all the EPROM's in my equipment. I stick them in the machine some place. As for having the labels fall off, I was told by one of the EPROM designers that even sun light would take several years to erase EPROMs. Most indoor light has less than a thousandth the short UV that sun light has. UV doesn't reflect from surfaces vary well either so any indirect light would have even less UV in it. Still I keep tape over the windows on my EPROMs. One should note that even clear tape blocks most UV. Try it for your self, try to erase a EPROM with clear tape on it! It will take a lot longer. Dwight From ss at allegro.com Tue May 25 12:10:36 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Free: HP 3000/70 in UK Message-ID: <199905251710.KAA23185@bart.allegro.com> Hi, MARTIN_O'MURPHY@NON-HP-UNITEDKINGDOM-OM1.OM.HP.COM writes: > One of our UK HP 3000 customers has a > Series 70 that they no longer need/want. > >This system is available free to the first genuine >respondent who is prepared to collect/transport >it away. >If no-one responds in a reasonable period, the >70 meets Mr. Sledgehammer(TM) ;-) The HP 3000/70 is a stack-based CISC machine that runs MPE. No, it can't run any version of Linux or anything else. It's about 6' wide, 4'high, 2' deep. It dates back to about 1983 or so. BTW, I thought I had the TM on "Mr. Sledgehammer", see: http://www.allegro.com/sportster.html Stan From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue May 25 12:53:02 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M In-Reply-To: <001501bea6c6$52be6f20$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> from Rick Bensene at "May 25, 1999 8:50:33 am" Message-ID: <199905251753.NAA01000@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > As I remember the DSP-90 was a rockin' machine for its time...the > 'king of servers' machine. Mentor Graphics had a bunch of these sitting > in a room with LOTS of Air Conditioning in it...to act as a simulation > farm for their logic simulation software. As I remember...I think that > the machine used all ECL logic for the CPU. It sucked up a lot of juice, > and made a lot of heat. > > I seem to remember, but not completely sure, that the CPU was essentially > an ECL implementation of a 68000...a comparatively very fast 68000. > > It should be preserved if possible...Apollos in general *could* have been > the engineering workstation of choice had Apollo not made some silly > 'closed architecture' blunders. Their OS and Network environment has > solid features that today are still not real solid in the Unix/NT worlds. > > Rick Bensene > > > Apollo also OEM'd Alliant Computer's FX/8 and FX/1 68020 looking multiple processor mini-Super. These things had Vector opcodes like a Cray and ran a BSD looking Unix called Concentrix. AT&T also used 'em at Bell Labs and Morgan Stanly used 'em on Wall Street. Slick box with up to 8 cpu's and a number of 68010 or 68020 front end processors on Multibus or VME bus. (I worked for Alliant for about 8 months). Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From rexstout at uswest.net Tue May 25 13:28:36 1999 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990524200025.0093b3f0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: >So... proving yet again that I just can't turn away a computer in need of a >home, I find myself looking at an Apollo Computers DSP90-3M computer with >an SMDE drive that is supposed to have the Apollo operating system on it. >(I was just expecting drives!) >I've got absolutely no background in Apollo gear, so I've got equally no >idea what it is that I'm looking at! I've been told that it's some sort of file server for Apollo networks. I dunno... Where dod you get it? There's a guy right over in the Camas/Washougal area that has one, unless you got it from him I can try to dig out his email address(hope I saved those messages!). >Anyone care to offer any insights? And... anyone care to offer it a home??? >(I'm just NOT sure I'm ready to branch down the Apollo line...) If you decide to get rid of it, I'll be happy to take it home... I've kinda gone nuts with Apollo stuff. Just wish I had more monitors(and DomainOS tapes)... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | | ham-mac@qth.net Portland, OR | -------------------------------------------------------------- From Innfogra at aol.com Tue May 25 14:04:11 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Apollo DSP90-3M Message-ID: <59f4cb21.247c4e2b@aol.com> In a message dated 5/25/99 8:53:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rickb@pail.enginet.com writes: > > I seem to remember, but not completely sure, that the CPU was essentially > an ECL implementation of a 68000...a comparatively very fast 68000. > The DSP 90 used the 68020 CPU card that was used in the 5XX series of workstations. It also contained the Apollo Ring network card to hook up to the network. It may or may not have an extra memory card. It did not have the display card as it was a rack mount server. It also had a Multibus 1 cardcage which held a SMD controller, a tape drive controller or any other Multibus card to drive interface one wanted to hang on the ring. It commonly had CDC 9" hard drives but you could use 8" or 14" SMD drives. Apollo also hung Cipher tape drives on it also. You could put removable pack drives also. It was used as a Server on an Apollo Ring. It did data and program storage mainly. If someone was going to set up an Apollo Ring for a museum it would be great. As to what Jim could use it for I'm not sure. Prob. trading material as I am not sure the Computer Garage has the space for an Apollo exhibit. If someone is interested in Apollo I have a working 580 system that I would like to sell or pass on. Paxton From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue May 25 14:24:51 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 Message-ID: <199905251924.MAA04308@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 479 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/c027f3a3/attachment.ksh From roblwill at usaor.net Tue May 25 17:20:40 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions Message-ID: <01bea6fc$d22bae40$b38ea6d1@the-general> The CD ROM no longer spins up to read the disk. The CD that I am using is Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions 1.0. I used it previously to install Windows on my 5170. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: John Foust To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 7:45 AM Subject: Re: DatEXT CD-ROM questions >At 06:15 PM 5/24/99 -0700, Jason (the General) wrote: >>The unit was working fine when I powered it down and moved the computer >>across my basement a few months ago. When I powered it up today, the CD-ROM >>driver will load, but it won't read any disks. > >Have you tried to read a *contemporary* CD, or a CD that you know >is in pure old-style ISO-9660 CD format? Some of the newer extensions >could be throwing the driver for a loop. > >- John > > From arfonrg at texas.net Tue May 25 14:38:31 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 2000 Harddrive In-Reply-To: <3749C478.2E2CA24D@wxs.nl> References: <3.0.3.32.19990524134151.00914910@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990525143831.009d0920@207.207.0.212> The interface cable between the unit and the machine is a LARGE ribbon cable haeder plug (like IDE connectors but much bigger). Or did you mean the actual cable from the interface board to the drive itself? >Tell me some more on the type of cables that (should) connect to it > >Sipke de Wal > >Arfon Gryffydd wrote: >> >> I snagged a Tandy 2000 30Mb harddrive this weekend!!! The actual drive is a >> Quantum Model (?)204(?). It is stinking huge (not mainframe huge but >> desktop huge)! >> >> Can anyone tell me about this drive? Is there an easy way to connect a >> newer HD to this machine? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From max82 at surfree.com Tue May 25 14:25:53 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990525011930.009fd5f0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 1999, Roger Merchberger wrote: >It sounds like you may have a case of bit-rot, and reprogramming the eproms >may be necessary to restore the drive to working order. I think that checking the cable may also be a prudent step :) --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From max82 at surfree.com Tue May 25 14:29:26 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions In-Reply-To: <01bea6fc$d22bae40$b38ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: >The CD that I am using is Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions 1.0. I >used it previously to install Windows on my 5170. Windows 3.0 came on CD? Is this an original CD from Microsoft? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 13:20:48 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at May 24, 99 08:50:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1216 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/3fc07c9b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 13:23:00 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <9905250313.ZM4236@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 25, 99 02:13:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/a6ee2f2c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 13:34:07 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: A step in the right direction... In-Reply-To: <8025677C.0036C576.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at May 25, 99 10:57:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1072 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/7263e981/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue May 25 16:40:18 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:15 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question In-Reply-To: <002d01bea6bb$3ed38fa0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990525164018.459f0dfe@intellistar.net> Dick, That's an interesting question! I wonder what the difference in the software is? I don't think I've ever heard of a CMOS AIM 65. The BASIC comes up as ver 1.1. I didn't see a version on the assembler. The ICs containing the assembler and BASIC don't have any special markings. They're PN is the same as the PN of the two standard ROMs except one digit is different. Joe At 08:31 AM 5/25/99 -0600, you wrote: >NOW . . . The interesting question is whether the firmware versions you have >support the ROCKWELL CMOS versions or only the NMOS parts. Rockwell made >the AIM 65 its evaluation system for their entry in the 6502 market, but >their CMOS version is the one whose instruction set I thought was the best >of all of them. If your AIM boards have the assembler and BASIC interpreter >for the CMOS version, that's something to hang onto since it's still current >as far as the compatible cores are concerned. > >Dick > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 4:15 AM >Subject: Re: AIM 65 question > > >>They are. Two are optional BASIC and the other is optional Assembler. >> >> Joe >> >>At 10:49 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >>>These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. >>> >>>William R. Buckley >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Joe >>>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >>> >>>Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM >>>Subject: AIM 65 question >>> >>> >>>>Hi, >>>> >>>> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >>>>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >>>>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs >in >>>>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the >difference >>>>there? >>>> >>>> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >>>>commands to operate them? >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>> >>> >> > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 15:47:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 In-Reply-To: <199905251924.MAA04308@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at May 25, 99 12:24:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 228 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/8f9f5f87/attachment.ksh From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue May 25 15:59:07 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <990525165907.20c000db@trailing-edge.com> >c) On a related machine (I seem to remember Vaxstation 2000s can format >drives for at least one of the standard Q-bus controllers). Yes, the VS2000 format (and RCT table) is compatible with the RQDX3. You can do the formatting on the RQDX3 as well, with the right diagnostics. Of course, there are also machines with floppy drive systems that cannot do a low-level format. The most classic 8" floppy drive systems (specifically, the IBM 3740) can't format floppies, for example. There are also 5.25" floppy drive systems that can't format - for example, the RX50 on a DEC Q-bus or Unibus controller. (On some Rainbows, it is possible to low-level format RX50 media directly.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue May 25 16:04:45 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 25, 99 09:47:15 pm Message-ID: <199905252104.OAA20777@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/ead597b4/attachment.ksh From ryan at inc.net Tue May 25 16:04:21 1999 From: ryan at inc.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 References: Message-ID: <374B1055.6E042D69@inc.net> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? > > I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the > functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). > No 020 has an on-board MMU. the EC020 comes in different packaging and has a 24-bit address bus. Ryan Brooks ryan@inc.net > > -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 16:09:05 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <990525165907.20c000db@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 25, 99 04:59:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/3e139060/attachment.ksh From sipke at wxs.nl Tue May 25 16:13:08 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier References: Message-ID: <374B1264.7D283D3D@wxs.nl> Max Eskin wrote: > > On Mon, 24 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface > >hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be > >particularly hard to come by around here. > > There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? > Yep, They where put on a frame that included the MFM-controller (or RLL for that matter). This frame was put into a full length IBM-PC slot. They were sold as "Hardcards with usually 20MB (MFM) OR 30MB (RLL) capacity. I still have a few of these drives but I don't trust all of them and The Netherlands is far away shipping wise. Sipke de Wal From ryan at inc.net Tue May 25 16:15:22 1999 From: ryan at inc.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 References: <199905252104.OAA20777@shell2.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <374B12EA.80EEF6DB@inc.net> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? > > > > I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the > > functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). > > IIRC, the 68020 as a whole lacks a MMU. I want to say that the EC version > lacks some instructions which then have to be emulated in software by the > AmigaOS, but I don't seem to remember for sure. I know that's the case with > the 68060, so I might be getting it mixed up with that. > Nope, instruction set is 100% complete. Ryan Brooks ryan@inc.net > > Zane From sipke at wxs.nl Tue May 25 16:22:04 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier References: Message-ID: <374B147C.DBAE8689@wxs.nl> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > On May 24, 18:34, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Old _working_ ST506 hard disks, however small in capacity should be kept > > > IMHO. They may be useless in PCs, but there are plenty of machines that > > > can use such drives but can't use IDE/SCSI/whatever. And it's getting > > > ever harder to get working ST506 drives. > > > > Having just spent several days obtaining a suitable 20MB ST506-interface > > Several days? That's pretty quick.... I've spent months looking for > working ST506-interfaced drives in the past.... > > > hard drive, I completely concur with Tony. The 3.5" versions seem to be > > particularly hard to come by around here. > > The other 'nasty' is machines that will only take a limited number of > hard disk types (geometries). Sometimes only 2 or 3 drives are supported, > and you can bet that they'll either be almost impossible to find a drive > with all parameters in excess of the ones needed, or it will actually > verify that the drive has the specified geometry (e.g. checking that a '6 > head' drive doesn't work when heads >5 are selected). Getting the right > spare drive for one of those can really drive you insane. > XT/PC RLL/MFM controllers sometimes have a setup program that can cater for more than one geometry. Use debug and jump to c800:000x where x can be anything from 0-8. You might see a harddisk lowlevel configuration/formatting utility. c800 = c800 when the controller ROM was mapped there by default but some systems may have that altered. Sipke de Wal From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 25 12:26:13 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 L40 SX Booting In-Reply-To: <19990525123925.90865.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199905252127.RAA03038@smtp.interlog.com> On 25 May 99 at 14:39, John Doe wrote: > Hi! > > At the moment I'm rather an unhappy user of an old PS/2 laptop computer. Why > unhappy? I'm not able to boot it up, alltrough i tried everything, started > from disassembling it to the smallest part to changing the 3,5" floppy disk > drive and so on. I would really appreciate any information or hint about > starting it up. O.k, these are the specs of the machine: > > Machine: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX > Proc.: i386DX @ 20 Mhz > RAM: 2 Mb on-board > (the two blue memory slots are still free) > HDD: 60 Mb (Conner, Model CP2067, no OS on it) > FDD: 3,5" 1.44 Mb > (Panasonic, Model JU-237A03W, P/N 72X6074) < ! > > The problem is that the FDD activity LED does not light up when the computer > is started, even when a disk is in the drive. Only the LCD symbol of the > 3,5" disk drive on the computer panel goes on, but nothing happens. I never > had the chance to work on PS/2 computers and so I don't know what to do now. > I've checked all connections and all cables. It seem like the FDD doesn't > get any power input from the board, but i'm not sure. I think that the > problem is somewhere else. Later when the BIOS tries to boot up from the > hard disk, a message in Danish appears telling that the command interpreter > (COMMAND.COM) couldn't be found _ (The computer has a Danish BIOS on-board). > Please help me, I need help as soon as possible. Mail all hints and/or > advices to evilnet_genesis@yahoo.com or evilnet_genesis@hotmail.com. If > nobody can't help me then please give me some links or adresses, where I can > find informations. > > Thank you! > > I am not acquainted with this model. Ps2 models are all numbered 85xx-xxx or 95xx-xxx so I am assuming this is an 8540. If you go to www.can.com/helpware/vintage.htm you should be able to find a reference disk for this machine which PS2s require to configure. If it will boot you should be able to set up your machine. It is also possible that the reference/diagnostic disk is on your HD. Press alt-A when starting up. Sounds like there is a wrong version of Dos on the HD than what it is expecting. There should be a POST error message on start-up if the FDD isn't functioning. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 16:28:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <374B147C.DBAE8689@wxs.nl> from "Sipke de Wal" at May 25, 99 11:22:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1555 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/d15e5dcb/attachment.ksh From sipke at wxs.nl Tue May 25 16:34:29 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier References: <199905250136.AA03827@world.std.com> Message-ID: <374B1765.5B15A101@wxs.nl> Don't forget about the fact that the last drive on the controller cable should be terminated with a little resistor pack. Without it a lot of these drives/controllers won't work. The terminator is often inserted on the underside or near the power connector/controller pinout. Sipke de Wal Allison J Parent wrote: > > > ???? they don't???? I thought they were commonly found with ST506s! At > least that's the only one besides the ST412 (10mb) I've ever seen one with. > > Allison From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue May 25 12:51:01 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: <990525165907.20c000db@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 25, 99 04:59:07 pm Message-ID: <199905252152.RAA10758@smtp.interlog.com> On 25 May 99 at 22:09, Tony Duell wrote: > > Yes, the VS2000 format (and RCT table) is compatible with the RQDX3. You > > can do the formatting on the RQDX3 as well, with the right diagnostics. > > True, but IIRC, the 'right diagnostics' are a lot harder to find tahn a > secondhand Vaxstation 2000... > > > > > Of course, there are also machines with floppy drive systems that cannot do > > a low-level format. The most classic 8" floppy drive systems (specifically, > > the IBM 3740) can't format floppies, for example. There are also 5.25" > > floppy drive systems that can't format - for example, the RX50 on a DEC > > This is, IMHO, less of a problem. Mainly because there are other > common-ish machines that _can_ do the formatting. 8" 'RX01' floppies can > be formatted in most soft-sector 8" CP/M machines (and a PERQ will not > only do the format, it'll even stick an 'RT11' directory on the disk). > RX50 disks can be formatted in some PCs, or in Rainbows, or in many other > machines. > > > Q-bus or Unibus controller. (On some Rainbows, it is possible to low-level > > format RX50 media directly.) > > You say 'some Rainbows'. I thought this was just a software > consideration, and that the hardware of all 'bows was capable of > formatting blank disks. Since the 'bow disk controller is just a WD179x > chip (IIRC) on one of the micro's buses, it seems hard to figure out a > way to stop it from formatting, although anything is possible. > > The common version of CP/M for the 'bow certainly includes a format > command that seems to work on blank disks. > > -tony > The 'Bows came in several versions. There was an A and B model at least. In a Byte mag I have, the reviewer ("Caccia ?") complains about the inability to format a disk on the preview machine he is testing. Don't know if it was a hardware or software problem. He eventually got one formatted by a local tech on another machine. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From sipke at wxs.nl Tue May 25 16:52:10 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question References: <3.0.1.16.19990525164018.459f0dfe@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <374B1B8A.D6C2FE@wxs.nl> CMOS versions of 6502's by various manufactors had illegal/non-documented instructionset enhancements, The problem was that different manufactors divised different enhancements so the are not very compatible. There must be docu's out there outlining the non-documented instructions of various manufactors, Homecomputer magazines from the UK liked to run such info, Unforunatly I cast out a lot of these magazines. Sipke de Wal Joe wrote: > > Dick, > > That's an interesting question! I wonder what the difference in the > software is? I don't think I've ever heard of a CMOS AIM 65. The BASIC > comes up as ver 1.1. I didn't see a version on the assembler. The ICs > containing the assembler and BASIC don't have any special markings. They're > PN is the same as the PN of the two standard ROMs except one digit is > different. > > Joe > > At 08:31 AM 5/25/99 -0600, you wrote: > >NOW . . . The interesting question is whether the firmware versions you have > >support the ROCKWELL CMOS versions or only the NMOS parts. Rockwell made > >the AIM 65 its evaluation system for their entry in the 6502 market, but > >their CMOS version is the one whose instruction set I thought was the best > >of all of them. If your AIM boards have the assembler and BASIC interpreter > >for the CMOS version, that's something to hang onto since it's still current > >as far as the compatible cores are concerned. > > > >Dick > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Joe > >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > >Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 4:15 AM > >Subject: Re: AIM 65 question > > > > > >>They are. Two are optional BASIC and the other is optional Assembler. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >>At 10:49 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>>These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. > >>> > >>>William R. Buckley > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Joe > >>>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >>> > >>>Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM > >>>Subject: AIM 65 question > >>> > >>> > >>>>Hi, > >>>> > >>>> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them > >>>>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone > >>>>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs > >in > >>>>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the > >difference > >>>>there? > >>>> > >>>> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the > >>>>commands to operate them? > >>>> > >>>> Joe > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue May 25 16:56:59 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <990525175659.20c000eb@trailing-edge.com> >> Q-bus or Unibus controller. (On some Rainbows, it is possible to low-level >> format RX50 media directly.) >You say 'some Rainbows'. I thought this was just a software >consideration, and that the hardware of all 'bows was capable of >formatting blank disks. Since the 'bow disk controller is just a WD179x >chip (IIRC) on one of the micro's buses, it seems hard to figure out a >way to stop it from formatting, although anything is possible. On a Rainbow, a dedicated Z80 does the floppy I/O; the formatting code has to be in the Z80's firmware (which, indeed, is a "software consideration".). In some revisions of the Z80's firmware, the format option for RX50's isn't present (it returns an error). I'm currently looking for the "RX50 FAQ", put together by Charles Lasner most of a decade ago, in hope that it discusses which firmware revisions are/aren't capable of formatting. So far I've turned up about 30 pages of Charles's notes on RX50 interleave issues, but nothing about the Rainbow firmware! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From sipke at wxs.nl Tue May 25 17:00:56 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 2000 Harddrive References: <3.0.3.32.19990524134151.00914910@207.207.0.212> <3.0.3.32.19990525143831.009d0920@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <374B1D98.16B0BFB9@wxs.nl> From roblwill at usaor.net Tue May 25 19:56:21 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions Message-ID: <01bea712$924e2f80$b38ea6d1@the-general> It's a Tandy MPC System software CD - Came with an OLD Sensation. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 1:35 PM Subject: Re: DatEXT CD-ROM questions >On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: >>The CD that I am using is Windows 3.0 with Multimedia Extensions 1.0. I >>used it previously to install Windows on my 5170. > >Windows 3.0 came on CD? Is this an original CD from Microsoft? > >--Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > > From max82 at surfree.com Tue May 25 16:25:36 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <374B1264.7D283D3D@wxs.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 1999, Sipke de Wal wrote: >Yep, They where put on a frame that included the MFM-controller (or RLL >for that matter). This frame was put into a full length IBM-PC slot. Oh, hard cards. I was envisioning separate drives. Were there any of these? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From max82 at surfree.com Tue May 25 16:42:26 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions In-Reply-To: <01bea712$924e2f80$b38ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: >It's a Tandy MPC System software CD - Came with an OLD Sensation. Hmm...does the Windows setup program expect floppies or a CD-ROM? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From roblwill at usaor.net Tue May 25 20:45:37 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: DatEXT CD-ROM questions Message-ID: <01bea719$7445b920$879ba6d1@the-general> A CD-ROM. It tells about HyperGuide, and that it can either be installed on the HD (taking up 12 MB), or it can be run from the CD-ROM. It also has software much as Music Box, which is a primitive form of Windows CD Player. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 3:48 PM Subject: Re: DatEXT CD-ROM questions >On Tue, 25 May 1999, Jason (the General) wrote: >>It's a Tandy MPC System software CD - Came with an OLD Sensation. > >Hmm...does the Windows setup program expect floppies or a CD-ROM? > >--Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue May 25 18:00:41 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question Message-ID: <000601bea702$6a0f18a0$0100c0a8@fuj03> What I meant was not that the AIM65 was CMOS, but rather, that the ROCKWELL version of the CMOS 6502 was different from the NMOS version sold by MOS Technology. One way of telling whether the assembler is written for the NMOS or the CMOS version, would be to have it assemble a source file with a few of the CMOS instructions in it and see how it handles them. What's more, the unimplemented opcodes in their CMOS processor were all implemented as NO-OPs while the NMOS version had that widely known (or at least heard-of) set of odd-ball (undocumented) instructions Hans Franke wrote about a month or two ago. You just have to look at the processor to determine whether it's a CMOS processor, but the assembler could be for either processor. The BASIC is probably the version for the NMOS part. I assume that the early release number is all one needs to tell that. Anything made after 1983-84 could go either way. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 2:58 PM Subject: Re: AIM 65 question >Dick, > > That's an interesting question! I wonder what the difference in the >software is? I don't think I've ever heard of a CMOS AIM 65. The BASIC >comes up as ver 1.1. I didn't see a version on the assembler. The ICs >containing the assembler and BASIC don't have any special markings. They're >PN is the same as the PN of the two standard ROMs except one digit is >different. > > Joe > >At 08:31 AM 5/25/99 -0600, you wrote: >>NOW . . . The interesting question is whether the firmware versions you have >>support the ROCKWELL CMOS versions or only the NMOS parts. Rockwell made >>the AIM 65 its evaluation system for their entry in the 6502 market, but >>their CMOS version is the one whose instruction set I thought was the best >>of all of them. If your AIM boards have the assembler and BASIC interpreter >>for the CMOS version, that's something to hang onto since it's still current >>as far as the compatible cores are concerned. >> >>Dick >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joe >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >>Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 4:15 AM >>Subject: Re: AIM 65 question >> >> >>>They are. Two are optional BASIC and the other is optional Assembler. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>>At 10:49 PM 5/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >>>>These 24 pin chips sound to me like ROM's. >>>> >>>>William R. Buckley >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Joe >>>>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >>>> >>>>Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:59 PM >>>>Subject: AIM 65 question >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >>>>>have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >>>>>know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs >>in >>>>>the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the >>difference >>>>>there? >>>>> >>>>> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >>>>>commands to operate them? >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Tue May 25 14:41:16 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: References: <374B1264.7D283D3D@wxs.nl> Message-ID: <199905252334.TAA16789@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:25:36 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Max Eskin > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Max scribbled: > Oh, hard cards. I was envisioning separate drives. Were there any of > these? Even designed hardcards! (looks like black frame with plastic black sides, one side is embossed in capacity size and brand is HD, green circuit card) Impulse Plus (Quantum took it) used an nonstandard card (in fact really similar to LPS series in that same period and size capacity) with everything on it and hd bare just connections between (opposite of IDE idea of all stuff on HD and nothing on card to the slot.) From 10MB and 20 (platters coated w/ iron oxide and epoxy), 50, 105, 240MB all last 3 are plated platters. All used optical grating/read back from track to anlign heads. Quantum HD's larger than 240MB dropped optical grating technologies I think. Which is good thing to help seek times and cut expenses. Wizard From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Tue May 25 14:48:40 1999 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: TCPIP via ethernet under DOS? (I know that is possible...b In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990525094952.010e85c0@vpwisfirewall> References: <199905220450.AAA10297@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199905252342.TAA24351@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:49:52 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: John Foust > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: TCPIP via ethernet under DOS? (I know that is > possible...but!) > At 12:56 AM 5/22/99 +0000, jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote: > >Here is I have this: > >Cable modem, few classic and (few not so-classic) machines w/ > >ethernet cards, DOS. > > Any luck so far? Given a spare moment, I could dig into my system to > see how I did it. I remember using a solution using a packet radio > driver and an 'ftp' program that I used before Win 3.11 networking > came along. As to be expected of DOS, it mucked with a slew of drivers > in CONFIG.SYS. I'm sure it was fixed IP, so your best bet would be > to set up a firewall Linux box to connect to the cable modem, > and run your old boxes on a subnet with fixed IPs that can talk to > the firewall to get to the net. Got some progress in gathering s/w from new successful searches with right keywords. That is what I wondered about the packet drivers. TCP to packet drivers do exist. But that caused me vast and terrible visions of drivers atop another drivers to the final solution. Ugh! Looks like this: Kick the nic driver into action, pull ip info w/ bootp, (that is the hardest part to transfer the info between 2 programs) Invoke the tcp packet driver. Then use any packet-aware apps like ftp, newsreaders etc. But. The primary purpose is to d/l stuff by lynx or ftp (I like lynx better for this) so I can "bootstrap" up to linux. And I also found CUTCP too. What about it? Wizard > > - John > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 25 18:42:32 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Space, the next frontier" (May 25, 19:23) References: Message-ID: <9905260042.ZM5310@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 25, 19:23, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Space, the next frontier > > > Getting the right > > > spare drive for one of those can really drive you insane. > > > > How do you think I got to be like this? :-) > > Probably in a similar, but not quite indentical way to me.... Not quite > identical, because AFAIK you're not a workstation collector... Not primarily -- I have the usual Apples, Beebs, PETs, Atom, ZX81, Sorcerer -- and I've just found a Nascom-1 :-) -- and PDP-11s, but I also have two SGI Indigos, an Indy, a VS3000, a couple of Arcs, a microVAX-II, a U-Micro 68000, a Sage-II, a DecMate. I'm not sure which of those count as workstations, though :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 25 18:35:12 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Sipke de Wal "Re: Space, the next frontier" (May 25, 23:13) References: <374B1264.7D283D3D@wxs.nl> Message-ID: <9905260035.ZM5306@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 25, 23:13, Sipke de Wal wrote: > Max Eskin wrote: > > There have been 3.5" ST-506 interface hard drives? > > > Yep, They where put on a frame that included the MFM-controller (or RLL > for that matter). This frame was put into a full length IBM-PC slot. > > They were sold as "Hardcards with usually 20MB (MFM) OR 30MB (RLL) > capacity. Only one of the 3.5" drives I've had was sold as, or for, hardcards -- they were much more commonly sold just as hard drives. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue May 25 18:50:21 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: 68020 vs 68EC020" (May 25, 21:47) References: Message-ID: <9905260050.ZM5316@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 25, 21:47, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: 68020 vs 68EC020 > > > > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? > > I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the > functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). I'm not sure of the other details, but "EC" = "Embedded Control", as you say. According to my Motorola cribsheet, it's a 68020 with only 24-bit addressing, without the dynamic bus sizing, ands restricted speed range. It does have the co-pro interface, though, and probably most if not all of the instruction set (the crib sheet doesn't get very detailed). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 17:57:07 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <374B1765.5B15A101@wxs.nl> from "Sipke de Wal" at May 25, 99 11:34:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 618 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990525/6d0d1736/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 18:01:40 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <990525175659.20c000eb@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at May 25, 99 05:56:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 588 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/4e75b5d0/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Tue May 25 19:01:13 1999 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question References: <3.0.1.16.19990524180723.3bffa7d0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <010a01bea70f$bb9673a0$a08bfad0@office1> Joe: Some of the extra ROM slots were used for a BASIC interpreter and an Assembler. If you look on my Web site, I have a complete set of docs in PDF format. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:07 PM Subject: AIM 65 question > Hi, > > I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them > have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone > know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in > the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference > there? > > Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the > commands to operate them? > > Joe > > From thompson at athenet.net Tue May 25 19:42:26 1999 From: thompson at athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 In-Reply-To: <9905260050.ZM5316@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: OK, my curiousity is piqued. What is the HC in MC68HC000 chips? The one I have is on a DEC RF31 disk drive controller. Paul On Tue, 25 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 25, 21:47, Tony Duell wrote: > > Subject: Re: 68020 vs 68EC020 > > > > > > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? > > > > I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the > > functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). > > I'm not sure of the other details, but "EC" = "Embedded Control", as you > say. According to my Motorola cribsheet, it's a 68020 with only 24-bit > addressing, without the dynamic bus sizing, ands restricted speed range. > It does have the co-pro interface, though, and probably most if not all of > the instruction set (the crib sheet doesn't get very detailed). > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue May 25 19:02:21 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <9905260042.ZM5310@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at May 25, 99 11:42:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1210 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/16795f06/attachment.ksh From ryan at inc.net Tue May 25 20:14:47 1999 From: ryan at inc.net (Ryan Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 References: Message-ID: <374B4B07.DC29747D@inc.net> Highspeed CMOS (just updated from the original NMOS version). The more interesting HC part is the HC001, which has static bus sizing, and some other hacker friendly features. Ryan Brooks ryan@inc.net Paul Thompson wrote: > OK, my curiousity is piqued. > > What is the HC in MC68HC000 chips? The one I have is on a DEC RF31 > disk drive controller. > > Paul > > On Tue, 25 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > On May 25, 21:47, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Subject: Re: 68020 vs 68EC020 > > > > > > > > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? > > > > > > I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the > > > functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). > > > > I'm not sure of the other details, but "EC" = "Embedded Control", as you > > say. According to my Motorola cribsheet, it's a 68020 with only 24-bit > > addressing, without the dynamic bus sizing, ands restricted speed range. > > It does have the co-pro interface, though, and probably most if not all of > > the instruction set (the crib sheet doesn't get very detailed). > > > > -- > > > > Pete Peter Turnbull > > Dept. of Computer Science > > University of York > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue May 25 20:50:52 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question Message-ID: <199905260150.AA16893@world.std.com> < That's an interesting question! I wonder what the difference in the Message-ID: The Tandy 2000 external hard disk cable was a 50-pin header cable that matched those from the Model 2/12/16/6000 series machines and the Model 1/3/4 machines. Do not confuse the cables or compatible drives with the (technically inferior) IBM st506 interfaces of the time. External drives had a board that matched the Model 3/4 bus. THAT was the controller -- board in the 2000 was a bus adapter with some logic. A lot of wasted space on that board. Back in those days I could low-level format a 15Mb drive with a Z-80 on a TRS-80 Model 4 in about 20 minutes, as opposed to about an hour and a half with an XT. Oh yeah, the Mod 4 had the OS and utilities installed after that and the boot floppy set up, on the IBM (or compatible) the "high-level" format and actual installation of the operating system had yet to go. Oh, the 2000 matched the performance of the Model 4, no surprise. Don't get me wrong, I love the Tandy 2000 - better than the AT that showed up a year later and killed it by introducing a "standard" 16-bit bus. It died because it was not "100% IBM compatible", since the company had tried and succeeded at superiority, but couldn't match the (at that time) magic name. And people wanted 100% IBM compatibility. Simply better wasn't good enough. On Wed, 26 May 1999, Sipke de Wal wrote: > >From interface to drive, Because that might help me identify the drive > for you. I thin it could be a ST506 or ST412 type interface with either > a MFM of RLL controllercard. ESDI could also be posible but they were > only used in high-end systems. > > ST506 has 1 controller cable (34wire) and a data cable(20wire). ESDI to > but the controller would look very sophisticated. > > Sipke de Wal > > Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > > > > The interface cable between the unit and the machine is a LARGE ribbon > > cable haeder plug (like IDE connectors but much bigger). Or did you mean > > the actual cable from the interface board to the drive itself? > > > > >Tell me some more on the type of cables that (should) connect to it > > > > > >Sipke de Wal > > > > > >Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > > >> > > >> I snagged a Tandy 2000 30Mb harddrive this weekend!!! The actual drive is a > > >> Quantum Model (?)204(?). It is stinking huge (not mainframe huge but > > >> desktop huge)! > > >> > > >> Can anyone tell me about this drive? Is there an easy way to connect a > > >> newer HD to this machine? > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > > > Move up to a REAL OS... > > ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # > > #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## > > ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### > > ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### > > ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### > > # ###### > > ("LINUX" for those of you > > without fixed-width fonts) > > ---------------------------------------- > > Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > > > > Slackware Mailing List: > > http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html > Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From allisonp at world.std.com Tue May 25 21:55:52 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier Message-ID: <199905260255.AA02926@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > On Tue, 25 May 1999, Sipke de Wal wrote: > >Yep, They where put on a frame that included the MFM-controller (or RLL > >for that matter). This frame was put into a full length IBM-PC slot. > > Oh, hard cards. I was envisioning separate drives. Were there any of > these? Hard cards, in fact, had separate drives and separate controllers. They were just in a common (ISA compatible) housing. - don > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue May 25 23:31:03 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Shipping protocol Message-ID: <19990525.233107.198.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Guys: I have to ship a rather distressed pdp-8a cardcage across the country. Do you think I should ship the cards separately, or the entire thing as a unit? The whole thing weighs 60#, btw. Thanks Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From donm at cts.com Tue May 25 22:49:57 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Probably in a similar, but not quite indentical way to me.... Not quite > > > identical, because AFAIK you're not a workstation collector... > > > > Not primarily -- I have the usual Apples, Beebs, PETs, Atom, ZX81, Sorcerer > > -- and I've just found a Nascom-1 :-) -- and PDP-11s, but I also have two > ^^^^^^^^ > Nice!! I have to make do with a Nascom2 and a Gemini (in the network > server configurtion, complete with SASI hard disk interface :-)). > Perhaps I'm not doing too badly... > > > SGI Indigos, an Indy, a VS3000, a couple of Arcs, a microVAX-II, a U-Micro > > 68000, a Sage-II, a DecMate. I'm not sure which of those count as > > workstations, though :-) > > OK.... Point taken... > > Most later workstations had SCSI interfaces for the hard disk (even if > they then broke that by insisting on an ST506 drive on the other side of > a SCSI->ST506 interface, as ICL and Torch both did). Some older I wonder if it was economics or availability that drove that decision. - don > workstations (PERQs, Xerox) had a hard disk controller built into the > (very complex) I/O board, and depended on features of that controller. > Modifying the machine to use some other kind of drive would probably be > harder than building a clean room to mend the existing drive ;-) > > > > -tony > > From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue May 25 22:51:01 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Canon Cat experts? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990525202448.4ac75b4a@ricochet.net> Is there anyone who knows anything about Canon Cats? Specifically, how to repair them? Or, anyone who has a working one? I got an e-mail from a writer in SoCal who has been using one for twelve years to do all his writing. It was recently damaged in a brownout, and he's "having a bad time of it without the use of my CAT." Most importantly, he needs to get his data off the disks, but I gather he'd also like to continue using it. Any thoughts? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From jpl15 at netcom.com Tue May 25 23:26:33 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Shipping protocol In-Reply-To: <19990525.233107.198.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 1999 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > Guys: > > I have to ship a rather distressed pdp-8a > cardcage across the country. Do you think > I should ship the cards separately, or > the entire thing as a unit? > When sending anything by whatever shipping company, I *always* remove and pack separately the cards from the backplane. This is not to say they can't all go in the same box, but I have caused severe damage to equipment and needless trauma to myself and others by trying to 'cheap out' and put packing stuff in and around the cards while still seated. Also, the bigger and less well supported the cards are, the more of a mess you stand a chance of making. Most of the damage in my experience was card-edge and backplane connector damage, from shocks at right angles to the plane of the card, causing them to rip out of their guides and break off thier connectors. Just my 200 millidollars Cheerz John From donm at cts.com Tue May 25 23:52:46 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/station 2000 stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In doing some experimenting with the RX33 attached to my MicroVAX 2000 - now with hard disk, I built the Standalone Backup disk package as recommended by Allison and Tim. A useful exercise, as I have learned a bit about DCL in the process of 'fumbling around'. The resulting three disks will boot up the system and bring up Backup 5.5, or thereabouts. But when I undertake to do a backup/image/verify to floppy, I get the error message: "%BACKUP-F-CLUSTER, unsuitable cluster factor for DUA2:" Since I formatted the disks using T 70 I would assume that they are to MicroVAX/VMS standard. How do I get around this roadblock? Incidentally, Tim, I do not intend to really use floppies for backup. I have a TK50Z. But, if I can get a better understanding of how they may be used, they may prove useful in getting software into the little bugger. - don From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 26 02:02:30 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 In-Reply-To: Paul Thompson "Re: 68020 vs 68EC020" (May 25, 19:42) References: Message-ID: <9905260802.ZM5647@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 25, 19:42, Paul Thompson wrote: > Subject: Re: 68020 vs 68EC020 > OK, my curiousity is piqued. > > What is the HC in MC68HC000 chips? The one I have is on a DEC RF31 > disk drive controller. HCMOS process; "completely pin and timing compatible with MC68000, with 1/10th the power dissipation" of the NMOS versions. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 26 04:09:20 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! In-Reply-To: <199905222230.SAA01861@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 May 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Maybe a subsiduary contest for those unable to get to LaLa land and the > Vintage Faire would be an interesting sidenote. One that would require actual > photos or video presentations as well as supporting documentation. Vintage > Machines from around the world. Tony's, Kees, and Andrews collections come > to mind as well as the ones Hans can't carry on the plane. :^)) > Could be a year-long promo event for next years Faire. This is a cool idea. If anyone wants to take pictures of the pride of their collections and send them in to me I'd like to make them into a collage of computer collectors from 'round the world to display at VCF 3.0. Your photo will be credited to you. A photo of yourself to accompanying the computer would be a nice touch. Send digital photos to me directly (sellam@vintage.org) or you can mail photos to: Vintage Computer Festival 4275 Rosewood Drive #29-161 Pleasanton, California 94588 Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From mranalog at home.com Wed May 26 04:44:52 1999 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: Semi-Final Northstar Horizon Update Message-ID: <374BC294.F5F968E5@home.com> Anthony Clifton said: > On a disk that Doug Coward sent me, which doesn't boot but can be read > once I boot of one of the disks sent to me by Don Maslin, Sorry, I'm just back from a vacation trip and I'm still not back at work yet, so I'm doing this from memory. It been at least a year since I sent that disk, but I seem to remember that I sent you an email after I sent the disk saying something like "Oops, by the way, by mistake the NSDOS disk I sent you is a special version compiled to load at 0100 hex not the normal 2000 hex." Look at the label, if this is the case it should say North Star DOS (version something) AT 100. So (if this is the case) you would need RAM starting from 0000, and BASIC on this disk would expect to find the DOS I/O vectors starting from 0100 hex, but the BASIC programs would work with the normal version of DOS. Without being able to search through my old email, because I'm not at work, thats how I remember it. Sorry, I just seems to have gotten in a hurry and sent the wrong DOS on the disk without thinking. I run CP/M also so I just naturally start RAM at 0000. I hope I'm not thinking of someone else I sent NSDOS to. I'm glad you're having so much success. --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum/ and the new Analog Computer Museum and history Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ==================================================== From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed May 26 05:33:57 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:16 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! In-Reply-To: <990523081750.216000eb@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: I have responded to all the current outstanding questions about the VCF Computer Faire in this one message to make things easier. From: Tony Duell > b) Originality and Authenticity > > The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is > not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at > assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to > the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be > considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point > deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this > category. Any consumables do not have to be authentic. Any item > that has questionable authenticity or originalty needs to have > supporting documentation. What are you going to do about 'contemporary' modifications? Most machines had a number of 3rd party add-ons that IMHO should be left in old machines if they're found there... For example, my TRS-80 model 4 came with a Z-clock in it. This is a little board that fits under the Z80 processor and contains a real time clock. If I was going to exhibit this machine, should I remove the option (as it's not original), leave it in, or what? My view (and I'm not a judge) is that reversable modifications like that shouldn't count against a machine. In fact, if the option is rare enough, it should count in favour of it. --- My reply: The intent of this rule is to get machines that are as close to their original condition as possible for historical accuracy. In your example, since the mod came with the Model 4 then it would be an acceptable addition (with proper documentation). I'll address this issue more in further comments. > > c) System Completeness > > The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that > is incomplete. A complete computer is one that includes the > peripherals that were originally used on the computer or typical > peripherals that would have been used with the computer if > applicable. Does this mean _every_ peripheral that was ever made for the machine, every peripheral that was made by the original manufacturer, or just a representative sample of them? I'm having problems thinking of an Unibus PDP11 (say an 11/45) with every option DEC ever made connected to it :-) A representative sample is what we had in mind. The more that are included in the exhibit the higher number of points in that category will be awarded. --- From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com > The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is > not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at > assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to > the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be > considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point > deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this > category. Interesting set of rules, with an interesting sense of "purity". In the real world, of course, someone who bought an IMSAI and populated it with only IMSAI peripherals was a fool. And it also leaves out the richness of computing that is (was) possible - take a look in the back of a late 70's BYTE and you'll see hundreds of manufacturers making a huge variety of S-100 boards. Yet any computers demonstrating this richness, so important in the early personal computing industry before the dominance of the PC-clone and the subsequent dull monotony of compatibles, lose points in this proposed judging scheme. Oh well, different strokes for different folks. --- My reply: In formulating these rules we started out with the basic rules of a classic car show since the parallel to computers is considerable, and modified them accordingly. This particular rule really applied to the more "packaged" computers, like the the TRS-80, Commodore and Atari, etc. We really didn't have S-100 type machines in mind. But your argument is entirely valid and we definitely over-looked this class of computer. We'll re-work this rule accordingly, mostly to allow for third-party add-ons to computers where this practice would have been the norm. --- From: Dave Dameron > The judges can deduct points for any part of the computer that is > not original as built by the manufacturer, or as constructed at > assembly time for kits. Replacement parts must be indicated to > the judges by the competitor. New old stock parts will be > considered to be replacement parts with a lesser point > deduction. A reproduction can not receive full points in this > category. Any consumables do not have to be authentic. Any item > that has questionable authenticity or originalty needs to have > supporting documentation. So I would be penalized for getting my SWTPC CT-1024 video terminal to work and enter it? First I changed the number of characters/ line from 32 to 64. Then I added a cassette "bit bopper" to it. I found the 60Hz line sync didn't work right, so took it out. Lastly, I added some graphics display in parallel to the characters. Now 20 or so years later, it doesn't seem to work, and the "original" ic's are all soldered in. --- My reply: A stock computer is generally more representative of the original. However, there are definitely some cases where a modification was required to the original to fix a bug that came from the factory and was pretty much mandatory if that machine was to be useful. We'll re-work this rule to expand the allowability of modifications to computers that really required them to work correctly. --- From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com >Like Tim said, nont one member of LICA has a "pure" machine. Some part >was non stock and often the reason was price or availability. I can't say >how many Altair and IMSAIs with floppies from neither vendor were seen. Or, as I understand the rules, it would penalize someone who hooked a Model 33 Teletype to their Altair because MITS didn't make the Teletype. Yet the Teletype is the most singularly classic input/output peripheral of the era. And if you didn't have a Teletype, users generally had some surplus keyboard hooked to their S-100 box (heck, look at the very first issue of _BYTE_ which features "surplus keyboards" as the cover story!). Yet again, you get penalized in the judging for configuring your machine as it would have typically been configured by an actual user in that day. --- My reply: No, in this case a Model 33 Teletype would be a perfectly acceptable add-on to the computer since it certainly was a typical configuration. The rule in question really applies to modifications or add-ons to the computer or associated hardware itself. Additional hardware that was used with the computer to make it a whole system would make for a better exhibit. An Altair with an Altair VCT or Comter terminal would probably earn more points than one with an ASR-33 since those are stock Altair, but also because they are far more rare than an ASR-33 and would be nice to see as part of the exhibit. But an ASR-33 would not cause the exhibit to lose points. --- Lastly, there was a question about the requirement of the $10 registration fee. The fee is not to make money off of the exhibitors, but is intended to hopefully get exhibitors to stick to their committment to exhibit. Putting on an event like this requires planning and money. If 30 people sign up to exhibit but then only 15 show up, that could amount to a lot of extra equipment and space that has been rented and paid for going to waste. I don't know if $10 is even enough to lock in a committment, but I didn't want to make it so high as to scare people away. I just hope that those who sign up to exhibit follow through and do show up with an entry. If it proves to be a problem then we'll have to think of something different next year, but I hope it works out fine. As we come up with modifications to the rules they'll be posted to an updated version of the complete rules posted to the VCF website. The web site is being re-worked for the next few days so you won't see them right away but they will be there. Please continue to ask questions or suggest improvements to the rules. This being the first year we are bound to have some bugs in the process, but with everyone's insight and input we should be able to conduct a fair competition, which is the intent. I hope to see many participants in this first competition! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed May 26 07:55:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: AIM 65 question In-Reply-To: <010a01bea70f$bb9673a0$a08bfad0@office1> References: <3.0.1.16.19990524180723.3bffa7d0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990526075547.3d9f6fa0@intellistar.net> Rich, I found them. They were a big help. Thanks for posting them. Joe At 08:01 PM 5/25/99 -0400, you wrote: >Joe: > > Some of the extra ROM slots were used for a BASIC interpreter and an >Assembler. If you look on my Web site, I have a complete set of docs in PDF >format. > >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ ><---------------------------- reply separator > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Joe >To: >Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 6:07 PM >Subject: AIM 65 question > > >> Hi, >> >> I picked up several AIM 65 computers. I've noticed that some of them >> have two 24 Pin ICs in the lower right corner and some have five. Anyone >> know what the difference is? Also some have only two of the 19 pin ICs in >> the top right corner and other have eitht ICs there. What's the difference >> there? >> >> Anyone know of a site where I can find out more about these and the >> commands to operate them? >> >> Joe >> >> > > > > From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed May 26 07:47:56 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: MicroVAX/station 2000 stuff Message-ID: <990526084756.210000b9@trailing-edge.com> >The resulting three disks will boot up the system and bring up Backup 5.5, >or thereabouts. But when I undertake to do a backup/image/verify to >floppy, I get the error message: > >"%BACKUP-F-CLUSTER, unsuitable cluster factor for DUA2:" > >Since I formatted the disks using T 70 I would assume that they are to >MicroVAX/VMS standard. How do I get around this roadblock? You formatted the floppies, but you didn't initialize them. Try appending a /INITIALIZE onto your backup command. >Incidentally, Tim, I do not intend to really use floppies for backup. I >have a TK50Z. But, if I can get a better understanding of how they may be >used, they may prove useful in getting software into the little bugger. If you intend to use them for purposes other than image backup, you ought to try INITing them and MOUNTing them as regular (Files-11) volumes. Doing a HELP INIT EXAMPLES or HELP MOUNT EXAMPLES will prove educational. Or - very handy for interchange purposes with micros that have the ability to read/write RT-11 RX50's and RX33's - you can use EXCHANGE to read and write RT-11 volumes. Go into EXCHANGE and type HELP for more info on this. There are also some freeware tools for reading and writing MS-DOS floppies from VMS; check out ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/mgpcx.zip if this sounds useful. There's loads of other VMS freeware available; just check the comp.os.vms FAQ for starters. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 26 07:56:13 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > A stock computer is generally more representative of the original. However, > there are definitely some cases where a modification was required to the > original to fix a bug that came from the factory and was pretty much > mandatory if that machine was to be useful. The question was clearly not understood. The CT1042 is a 16line by 32 character terminal board that can drive a TV or monitor. the single most desireable mod for it was to get 64characters per line. That mod was widely done and improved the usefulness. > used with the computer to make it a whole system would make for a better > exhibit. An Altair with an Altair VCT or Comter terminal would probably That would be anything but typical as the average Altair in 1976 didn't have mass storage. The rules for the machine in the gap between the mark-8 and the trs80 (~1974 ->late 1977) really dont fit that pattern. it was the days of a TTY was 1000$ and a used VT05 terminal easily 500$. Software was typically casette tape or paper tape. Someone in 1978 that showed upat a club with non-tty terminal and a disk system was usually the subject of the entire meeting! That tended to persist through 1980 as TRS80s an apples were off in their own groups. Also what about those that were using systems like the KIM-1, IMP48, EVK68 and a bunch of other SBCs that were so typical before the advent of the cheap single peice systems like the trs80s. The s100 world it was very typical to mix and match components from several vendors based on considerations like price or preference like static ram VS dynamic ram. llison From amirault at epix.net Wed May 26 09:00:42 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: source for foam filter material References: <199904102026.UAA24193@thorin.cs.umn.edu> <3710ACF5.A9A5743D@texoma.net> Message-ID: <374BFE8A.EFA19435@epix.net> Hi, I am going through my email and came across this. Here is an idea: go to a pet supply store and get a fish tank filter refill, the kind that looks like a waterfall, then cut it to size. This may be white instead of black, I don't know if this will be a problem for you. John Amirault "James L. Rice" wrote: > > Go to an air conditioning supply wholesalers or appliance parts dealer > and buy a universal window air conditioner filter kit. It is a black > open cell foam sheet about 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick that is cut to shape > for old a/c units that the oem filter is not readly available. costs > about 6 to 8 dollars. > > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Does anyone know where I might be able to buy some thin black foam filter > > material, to replace the stuiff that was used on my Teral computers? > > These systems have a large fan that draws air into the computer, and > > the intake air goes through this very thin filter, in order to capture > > large particles such as lint. > > > > After 22+ years, that foam is nothing more than dust. > > > > I would need something almost 5 inches wide, that i could then trim to > > the proper shape. > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > > -- > ICQ 2286850 > Home Page http://home.texoma.net/~jrice > Classic Comp Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp.html > Robotics Page at ttp://home.texoma.net/~jrice/hobbies.html > All pages under construction! From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed May 26 09:49:59 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Shipping protocol Message-ID: <19990526144959.11824.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > Guys: > > I have to ship a rather distressed pdp-8a > cardcage across the country. Do you think > I should ship the cards separately, or > the entire thing as a unit? If I were receiving it, I'd prefer to have the cards bagged in static bags and bubble-wrap and shipped seperately. Since that may compromise the structural integrity of a "distressed" cage, see about finding a cardboard box that fits somewhat snugly inside the empty cage, and pack the cage in a box with at least 4" of space on all sides (to be filled with peanuts and the like). You might consider shipping the PSU in its own box, but that's not essential. It will reduce the inertia of the cage enough that even distressed, an empty cage doesn't weigh enough to get badly damaged if the container gets slammed around. Remember this: if you wouldn't throw the box out of a car moving at 30mph, don't ship the box - UPS has a conveyer belt that is 4' off the ground, moving at 30mph. Stuff falls off every day. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed May 26 10:26:06 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990526082606.00957100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Hi, folks, I just posted a pair of unused MultiBus wire-wrap prototyping boards on Haggle (I can't stand Ebay) in the 'Antique Computers' section. I've started them off at $5.00 each, and I figure that, if anyone, at least some of you would be interested. ;-) I also inserted a proviso in the description that I won't sell these to a gold scrapper even if they're the high bid. I want these beauties to go to someone who can actually use them in a project. If you want to have a look (sorry I couldn't arrange a picture): http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202018178 Enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From fmc at reanimators.org Wed May 26 10:10:11 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: (fwd) Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Message-ID: <199905261510.IAA58115@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Near Red Bank, New Jersey, USA? Want a 3B1 with spare parts? Contact dwfraser@lucent.com. (As seen in comp.sys.3b1.) -Frank McConnell ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Wed May 26 08:03:29 1999 From: Douglas Fraser Subject: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Topics: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Re: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:46:57 -0400 From: Douglas Fraser Subject: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Message-ID: <37496661.FCE6F4DD@lucent.com> Well, child #2 has arrived and my free time factor has gone to ZERO! The one working 3B1 and all the spare parts must go. I will not box and ship, you have to pick it up. Red Bank, NJ. Send me email. Details One working 3B1, with memory expansion boards. Boots and runs. 3.51 on floppys that haven't been read in two years. Don't know if they still work. This is an OLD system board. The ASICs are implemented in medium scale logic on a mezzanine. It does work. Spares. Enough to create two more entire systems except for the disk drives. Currently disassembled. Misc. documentation including some copies of schematics. All power supplies, keyboards, mice, displays are good. Must take ALL. I am not interested in selling parts in dribs and drabs. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:24:33 -0400 From: Douglas Fraser Subject: Re: Used (of course!) 3B1/7300 plus parts. Message-ID: <374BF611.C6873238@lucent.com> References: <37496661.FCE6F4DD@lucent.com> Next week, this whole thing goes out in the trash. It will have a little note attached to it that says "Works! Boots UNIX! No password!" And a box that says "Documentation! Spare Parts!" Up until then, you can reserve it for yourself by sending me email. Bye. ------------------------------ End of forward718K3y Digest *************************** ------- End of forwarded message ------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed May 26 10:30:49 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990526082606.00957100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> from "Bruce Lane" at May 26, 99 08:26:06 am Message-ID: <199905261530.IAA03847@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 290 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/781e6061/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 26 11:33:35 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Shipping protocol In-Reply-To: <19990526144959.11824.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > --- jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > Guys: > > > > I have to ship a rather distressed pdp-8a > > cardcage across the country. Do you think > > I should ship the cards separately, or > > the entire thing as a unit? Cards seperate. Wrap each one so it cannot scrape it's leads against the next. Double box the cage. Allison From af-list at lafleur.wfi-inc.com Wed May 26 13:04:47 1999 From: af-list at lafleur.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Interesting thing on slashdot Message-ID: I grabbed the following from slashdot: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/990526/tx_dell_co_2.html For the browser impaired, Dell is hosting a contest to find the oldest PC still in use in a small business. The winner will receive 15K in computer equipment. Businesses have to be < 400 employees and you have to show proof with a receipt, warranty card, or other proof of age/purchase... Aaron From Innfogra at aol.com Wed May 26 13:36:23 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards Message-ID: <638bb094.247d9927@aol.com> In a message dated 5/26/99 8:36:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > I like that, but am curious as to how you intend to identify a scrapper. It is easy. Sell the card for more than it's scrap value. In this case it is about a penny a pin plus the value of the card's fingers (less than 50 cents, more than a quarter). Paxton From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 12:42:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <199905260151.AA17189@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at May 25, 99 09:51:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/c8e71700/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 12:50:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <199905260255.AA02926@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at May 25, 99 10:55:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1317 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/f4ca280c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 12:46:56 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: <199905260151.AA17323@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at May 25, 99 09:51:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1173 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/ddc1aed6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 12:55:49 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at May 25, 99 08:49:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1212 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/e311a299/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 12:57:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Shipping protocol In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at May 25, 99 09:26:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 685 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/580f5f7a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 13:26:07 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards In-Reply-To: <199905261530.IAA03847@shell2.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at May 26, 99 08:30:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 608 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/ae80af05/attachment.ksh From Innfogra at aol.com Wed May 26 13:50:47 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Unibus cards availiable Message-ID: While visiting the scrapper that bought much of my auction I had him set aside 4 Unibus cards that I thought the list would be interested in. I thought they were unusual and old. The numbers are G235, G232 (printed with a rubber stamp) and two G114s. There is some indication that they deal with X,Y positioning. They are 6 wide Unibus. If anyone is interested the owner would sell reasonably but would want more than scrap value. Paxton PS I also pulled out two Compaq Intelligent Drive Array-2 cards and an FDDI card, all for EISA bus. Does anyone know of a Compaq list that I could post them on. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 26 14:09:00 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > . . . > This thread hs drifted slightly. If the hard disk in some old machines fails It certainly has. This Subject: line was originally about building shelving! VERY few of us ever remember to change the Subject: line when we change the subject. Such as now. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed May 26 14:17:25 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Unibus cards availiable Message-ID: <990526151725.214000d5@trailing-edge.com> >While visiting the scrapper that bought much of my auction I had him set >aside 4 Unibus cards that I thought the list would be interested in. I >thought they were unusual and old. > >The numbers are G235, G232 (printed with a rubber stamp) and two G114s. There >is some indication that they deal with X,Y positioning. They are 6 wide >Unibus. These are all "XY" drivers for various core planes. Most likely from 11/70 core boxes, though they were also used in other systems. They aren't actually Unibus, though they do plug into hex-height slots. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From svs at ropnet.ru Wed May 26 14:48:34 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Misc manuals available Message-ID: <19990526234834.09037@firepower> G'day, Are the following documents of value to listmembers? I could scan them, if so. I will gladly accept scan(s) of certain DEC manual(s) in return. - Control Data 405 card reader, mod D Supplemental Manual, Pub No. 49750900 (Logic Diagrams, Logic Wiring, Logic Chassis, Logic Location) - iSBC 80/30 Single Board Computer Hardware Reference Manual, (c) Intel 1978. - iSBC 501 Direct Memory Access Controller H.R.M., (c) Intel 1976. - iSBC 544 Intelligent Communications Controller H.R.M., (c) Intel 1978. - Univac Series 70: VMOS Executive Program Interface Document No. 77031000, Revision 11, Revision date: 23 August 1972. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 26 14:51:10 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards Message-ID: <001701bea7b1$1a90cda0$0100c0a8@fuj03> It would be interesting to know more about these cards. Is there a picture or something to specify the configuration of the boards? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 9:28 AM Subject: FA on Haggle: MultiBus Prototype boards >Hi, folks, > > I just posted a pair of unused MultiBus wire-wrap prototyping boards on >Haggle (I can't stand Ebay) in the 'Antique Computers' section. I've >started them off at $5.00 each, and I figure that, if anyone, at least some >of you would be interested. ;-) > > I also inserted a proviso in the description that I won't sell these to a >gold scrapper even if they're the high bid. I want these beauties to go to >someone who can actually use them in a project. > > If you want to have a look (sorry I couldn't arrange a picture): > > http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202018178 > > Enjoy! > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From cdrmool at interlog.com Wed May 26 15:32:56 1999 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (Colan Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. Message-ID: If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my apologies. I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it. Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential problem. Colan From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 26 16:39:20 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19990526143525.03cff280@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> So what's the problem? Any responsible adult would simply delete/erase the personal data and move on. Anyone who would consider invading someones privacy by riffling through their old data files is simply rude and uncivilized. When someone gives me a computer I offer to copy off any data onto an archive disk for them, but I then delete it after doing so. I'm sure that lawyers are the worst because they know that if you did anything with the information or even made it public knowledge that you had the information they would successfully sue you for everything you own. --Chuck At 04:32 PM 5/26/99 -0400, Colan wrote: > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on >discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to >be the worst. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 16:09:19 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: from "Colan Mitchell" at May 26, 99 04:32:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1463 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990526/7def8c55/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Wed May 26 16:49:53 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: Message-ID: <374C6C81.DFDAD002@rain.org> Colan Mitchell wrote: > > If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my > apologies. > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on > discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to As standard procedure, I use Nortons DISKWIPE on all disks before I send them out again (everything so far has been below the 2.1 GB partition limit.) The most fun I had was when I loaned out a disk to a friend, he used it and had someone else remove it. This idiot put the volume label "BIG FUCKER" on the disk which served to push my buttons and he had only reformatted the drive. After recovering all the files and breaking the passwords, I gave it back to my friend and then did the job properly. When talking to others responsible for computers, tell them that story and also the one where one of the hard drives I acquired had all the banks financial loan records for a number of people around town. I let the appropriate people know about that one, and again, properly wiped the disk. Spreading these types of stories around tends to make people more aware of the problem. From steverob at hotoffice.com Wed May 26 16:50:36 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. Message-ID: <01BEA7A0.430FFDC0.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:39 PM, Chuck McManis [SMTP:cmcmanis@mcmanis.com] wrote: > So what's the problem? Any responsible adult would simply delete/erase the > personal data and move on. Yep... That's what I do. Besides, I've never seen any info that was any particular interest to me. I'll admit, I don't generally erase other peoples source code without inspecting it. I find it invaluable when trying to learn a new OS or the specifics of a programming language. Steve Robertson - From fmc at reanimators.org Wed May 26 16:51:59 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Wed, 26 May 1999 01:02:21 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <199905262151.OAA69189@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Most later workstations had SCSI interfaces for the hard disk (even if > they then broke that by insisting on an ST506 drive on the other side of > a SCSI->ST506 interface, as ICL and Torch both did). Some older Sun did this too. It wasn't 'til SunOS 4.0 that the SCSI-disk driver would actually talk to SCSI disks. Before that, it wanted to talk to an Adaptec ACB4000 or an Emulex MD21 (for ESDI disks). I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the drives had something to do with it; I remember Amiga folks scheming to use ACB4000 boards with their SCSI interfaces because it was cheaper than buying a SCSI disk, and I've opened a few Mac SCSI hard disk boxes to find the same sort of thing inside. -Frank McConnell From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 26 17:18:07 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: <199905262151.OAA69189@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990526151506.03c9a6c0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 02:51 PM 5/26/99 -0700, Frank wrote: >Sun did this too. [scsi to MFM] ... >I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the >SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block >remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the >drives had something to do with it; Cost has more to do with it than bad blocks, the 4.1BSD disk driver knew how to remap bad blocks but with Adaptec and Emulex solutions you could put _two_ cheap drives behind a SCSI interface (logical unit 0 and 1) and when you did that the costs were significantly less for the scsi+ESDI solution. Of course Sun was a huge proponent of IPI, claiming it would wipe SCSI off the planet. --Chuck From donm at cts.com Wed May 26 17:15:05 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Space, the next frontier In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > > All rainbows had both that was the base configuration. The later B and B+ > > Sure. I was commenting about Tim's comment of a dedicated Z-80 for the > FDC. AFAIK there isn't. There is a Z80, but it can run user programs. > > > > > > > > The HD controller was 8x300, teh floppy was on the main board and relied > > I thought it was a Western Digital chipset, but I can't find a board to > check at the moment. I just looked at one of mine and the major chip is a WD1010AL-00. > > on the z80. Formatting was possible on all models. Only that the early > > The floppy controller in all my Rainbows is on a daughterboard plugged > into the main board. Likewise. - don > > OS packages didn't include the formatter(Pournelle got a first off the > > line). For a long while Rainbows were popular for formatting rx50s. > > That and people that had them really liked them. > > The colour graphics card was pretty nice as well. It's got a 7220 > graphics copro on it... > > > > > Allison > > > > > > > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 26 17:15:54 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <000601bea7c5$53160320$0100c0a8@fuj03> OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of these bridge controllers as well, providing a configuration utility for use with their SCSI board. I don't know how well they worked, but I imagine they had "little" problems with them as did nearly everyone else. Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one and how it was implemented. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Frank McConnell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 3:58 PM Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >> Most later workstations had SCSI interfaces for the hard disk (even if >> they then broke that by insisting on an ST506 drive on the other side of >> a SCSI->ST506 interface, as ICL and Torch both did). Some older > >Sun did this too. It wasn't 'til SunOS 4.0 that the SCSI-disk driver >would actually talk to SCSI disks. Before that, it wanted to talk to >an Adaptec ACB4000 or an Emulex MD21 (for ESDI disks). > >I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the >SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block >remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the >drives had something to do with it; I remember Amiga folks scheming to >use ACB4000 boards with their SCSI interfaces because it was cheaper >than buying a SCSI disk, and I've opened a few Mac SCSI hard disk >boxes to find the same sort of thing inside. > >-Frank McConnell > From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 26 17:19:35 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <001101bea7c5$d6776f60$0100c0a8@fuj03> It's odd that SUN, then, having declared the SCSI on the skids, would have been the ONE with the most sensible and least fragile connector on their external cable harnesses. If I had $1 for every time I've had a problem with external SCSI cable connectors, I could retire in luxury. I've NEVER had trouble with the D-types, in this case, the DD-50, breaking off contacts, etc. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:13 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >At 02:51 PM 5/26/99 -0700, Frank wrote: >>Sun did this too. [scsi to MFM] ... >>I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the >>SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block >>remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the >>drives had something to do with it; > >Cost has more to do with it than bad blocks, the 4.1BSD disk driver knew >how to remap bad blocks but with Adaptec and Emulex solutions you could put >_two_ cheap drives behind a SCSI interface (logical unit 0 and 1) and when >you did that the costs were significantly less for the scsi+ESDI solution. >Of course Sun was a huge proponent of IPI, claiming it would wipe SCSI off >the planet. > >--Chuck > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 26 17:25:45 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <001601bea7c6$b2d32da0$0100c0a8@fuj03> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:21 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >OMTI (SMS) and ADAPTEC made quite a few of these SCSI-HOST to MFM or RLL >devices. It seems to me that NOVELL capitalized on this proliferation of >these bridge controllers as well, providing a configuration utility for use >with their SCSI board. I don't know how well they worked, but I imagine >they had "little" problems with them as did nearly everyone else. > >Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with OOPS! . . . er . . . that's BRIDGE controller . . . >essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one >and how it was implemented. > >Dick From sipke at wxs.nl Wed May 26 17:39:04 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: Message-ID: <374C7808.15FA0D9A@wxs.nl> Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be revealed. Maybe we'll get another hype a la Y2K but with more educating content. Sipke de Wal Colan Mitchell wrote: > > If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my > apologies. > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on > discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to > be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and > educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of > lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being > weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do > something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it. > Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the > response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K > and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential > problem. > > Colan From zmerch at 30below.com Wed May 26 18:06:05 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Interesting thing on slashdot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990526190605.00968510@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Aaron Christopher Finney may have mentioned these words: >For the browser impaired, Dell is hosting a contest to find the oldest PC >still in use in a small business. The winner will receive 15K in computer >equipment. Businesses have to be < 400 employees and you have to show >proof with a receipt, warranty card, or other proof of age/purchase... Actually, I was first thinking of someone who still runs his accounting business primarily on Tandy Color Computers (1's and 2's - tho he might have a 3 floating around)... However, I won't; here's why: From what it looks like on the web page, you have to donate the old computer setup back to Dell so they can give it to a museum. If the person I had in mind actually won, he'd kill me - he doesn't want to upgrade. Pentium Xeon servers won't print the checks any faster from a daisy-wheel printer any faster than a CoCo can!!! The other downfall to this is if someone was still using 3-4 Altairs for their business setup, with the speculation over these machines the company might actually take a loss thru Dell than selling the machines via auction. Think about it. Disgusting, ain't it? Just a thought, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 26 18:21:46 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Interesting thing on slashdot Message-ID: <199905262321.AA27635@world.std.com> <> All rainbows had both that was the base configuration. The later B and B < <> > The HD controller was 8x300, teh floppy was on the main board and relie <> <> I thought it was a Western Digital chipset, but I can't find a board to <> check at the moment. < from "Sipke de Wal" at May 27, 99 00:39:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 625 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/078bca87/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:13:37 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: <001101bea7c5$d6776f60$0100c0a8@fuj03> from "Richard Erlacher" at May 26, 99 04:19:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/938e3996/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed May 26 18:23:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Interesting thing on slashdot In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990526190605.00968510@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at May 26, 99 07:06:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 717 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/6e3106eb/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed May 26 18:58:55 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: References: <374C7808.15FA0D9A@wxs.nl> Message-ID: <4.1.19990526165433.03ca7100@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 12:16 AM 5/27/99 +0100, Tony wrote: >Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do? [inform the press] YES! let's get this straight folks, there is nothing "wrong" about giving someone a computer that has personal and private information on it, it means you are trusting them to delete it. But it is VERY wrong if you come into possesion of personal and private information to exploit it. Now Allison's point is well taken that the lawyer's who give you a computer with confidential files have used bad judgement trusting you to protect it (assuming you don't) but _you_ break the law when you reveal confidential information. The "problem" here would be people who use information they find on disposed computers for personal pleasure or gain. If this issue was too visible I'd be finding more machines like my MicroVAXEN that were 100% operational except the previous owner (GE) had all the media devices (hard drives, tape drives, etc) sent to the crusher. --Chuck From ss at allegro.com Wed May 26 18:54:24 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: Interesting thing on slashdot In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990526190605.00968510@mail.30below.com> References: Message-ID: <199905262354.QAA32095@bart.allegro.com> I forwarded the contest note to a friend who still uses his Altair 8800 to burn ROMs for his company! (He assembled the Altair when it was new) He's planning on entering, but will decline if he wins...because he doesn't want to give up his machine! Stan From gareth.knight2 at which.net Wed May 26 18:46:12 1999 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: 68020 vs 68EC020 Message-ID: <018d01bea7d5$ac6315c0$9b4efea9@gaz> Pete Turnbull wrote: >> > An A1200 question: what's the difference between the 68020 and 68EC020? >> >> I believe the 'EC' version is for Embedded Control, and lacks some of the >> functions of the plain 68020 (probably MMU-related or something). > >I'm not sure of the other details, but "EC" = "Embedded Control", as you >say. According to my Motorola cribsheet, it's a 68020 with only 24-bit >addressing, without the dynamic bus sizing, ands restricted speed range. > It does have the co-pro interface, though, and probably most if not all of >the instruction set (the crib sheet doesn't get very detailed). Yup. In real terms the choice of EC by Commodore restricted the standard A1200 to just 10Mb fast RAM. This can be overcome with an accelerator that plugs into the trapdoor. On a slightly related note, a friend of mine in the US has found that his washer machine contains a 020 processor. Those things sure get around. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star" From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 26 19:13:03 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <001901bea7d5$b0860b80$0100c0a8@fuj03> I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be interesting. Nevertheless, it's a pregnant vehicle for modularity in system functionality. (almost sounds like gov-speak, doesn't it?) The idea is that I want to house software packages in boxes of their own so they can be run wherever there's a spot open. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) > >And Xybec. > > >I have the following: > > Adaptec 4070 SCSI to RLL, use that with a quantum D540. > Xybec 14xx in a CP/M system (SB180, with SCSI adaptor) (miniscibe 3.5"mfm) > DEC TK50Z SCSI to DEC TK50 DLT tape on a Microvax VIA CMD200 scsi card. > >All work with minimal setup. > > >Allison > From marvin at rain.org Wed May 26 19:16:50 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: <199905262322.AA27985@world.std.com> Message-ID: <374C8EF2.1A400433@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > > > It's a foolish practice. Running Norton's diskwipe is a good thing but at > least delete and better yet do a format. Both deleting and formatting are generally pretty trivial to recover from on a PC. Another technique I have used when I didn't have immediate access to a wiping program (and *think* it is okay although not as good as doing a wipedisk) is to overwrite the offending file with another larger one, i.e. "copy [bigfile.ext] [offending file.ext]" and of course, then deleting the file. If it were *really sensitive* data, then I would disassemble the drive, and then hit the platters with a bulk eraser. I have heard that it is possible to recover data from the HD even after doing a wipedisk by removing the platters and then analyzing the platters (urban legend?) From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed May 26 19:26:47 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <990526202647.214000ef@trailing-edge.com> >I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly >interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge >controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI >drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be >interesting. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10**6) after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets another 30% or so of capacity. Hitachi ESDI drives are available up to 1.5Gbytes or so, and work well on Emulex ESDI<->SCSI controller. All the above was assuming you meant size=capacity. If you meant size=cubic feet or pounds, I'm sure you could put a 14" CDC SMD drive on the other side of a SMD<->SCSI controller. Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on the surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and 2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From edick at idcomm.com Wed May 26 19:26:58 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:17 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <001e01bea7d7$a289ce20$0100c0a8@fuj03> IDC termination s for a 3-row connector are mechanically problematic. They're probably needlessly/intolerably fragile. Fortunately, external ribbon cables are no longer tolerated here in the U.S. They have been replaced with Pacific-rim-manufactured shielded cables which work quite admirably and which can be built into the DD50 with just as much integrity as the 2-row connectors. Those guys on the SCSI-II committee must have been software weenies, having picked the teensy and fragile high-density cable connectors they chose. I'd say they're every bit as likely to break as the microscopic things used in the "SCSI-III" connectors which look like the ones used on several of my PCMCIA cards. Fortunately, I'm too cheap to buy these most modern and extremely expensive connectors. I've got about two dozen of the old "Blue-Ribbon" (used in office phone systems) connector-fitted cables most of which I've had for years, used to tow the car, etc, and I've never had reason to cuss them. I have seven of the "SCSI-II" connectors on five cables, of which all but one are adapters. Only one of the adapters works right, i.e. their strain relief actually relieves strain, as opposed to pulling out. Of course, with them, I always know which end has the problem. I've not used the one with the little connector at both ends. I doubt I could fix it if it broke, which it surely will . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 5:37 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >> >> It's odd that SUN, then, having declared the SCSI on the skids, would have >> been the ONE with the most sensible and least fragile connector on their >> external cable harnesses. If I had $1 for every time I've had a problem >> with external SCSI cable connectors, I could retire in luxury. I've NEVER >> had trouble with the D-types, in this case, the DD-50, breaking off >> contacts, etc. > >Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed >some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics >plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 >or so... > >I must admit they're (DD50s) a much nicer connector, though. > >-tony > From zmerch at 30below.com Wed May 26 19:42:06 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: References: <374C7808.15FA0D9A@wxs.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990526204206.0091a1c0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > Someone else said: >> Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish >> any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be >> revealed. Eeeek!! No, Please! :-( >Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do? Seems to me as well. >At the moment there is no problem. All of us here (I hope) are sensible >about deleting personal data. So there is no risk in giving any of us a >machine with such data on it. > >The last thing we need is the public saying "I couldn't be sure that none >of my [love letters/tax returns/medical records] were on that >[Altair/PERQ/DEC 10/etc] so I broke it into little pieces so that nobody >could ever read them" Right. Now, I'm all for education, but don't blow the problem out of hand! The media sure loves that (can you say "O.J. Simpson","Y2K",etc.?) and look what happens after the media grabs hold - they never let go. If you got the machine from a lawyer/doctor/etc. you don't know, just wipe the data and be on with your life... but if said "professional" is a fairly good friend, you might be able to go to that person and say: "You know, that machine you gave me still had some confidential info on it. I didn't look at it, wiped it clean, and covered your ass. If any more machines come my way that have personal data on them, rest assured that I won't look at the info, and will delete it immediately. I really appreciate the machine, and I'm really glad you didn't destroy it, and if any of your (insert profession here) friends have older machines they're upgrading from, **you might wish to remind them gently to be sure to wipe the data first.**" [[ Editor's Note: Instead of what's contained in the **'s, you could instead insert "you might wish to let them know that I offer a very *affordable* confidential information wiping service, the charge for the service is that I get to keep the machine after the confidential info is destroyed." :-) ]] Obviously, this is a rough draft, and you might have to adjust for Politically Correctness and whatnot, but if you make it sound like you're doing them a big favor, they're more likely to trust you with new giveaways in the future, right? Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but if you think I'm right, then your worldview must be as skewed as mine! ;^> Just my $0.00000000000000002, and that's all it's worth! "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at 30below.com Wed May 26 20:05:46 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Could be a strange save in a strange place... In-Reply-To: <990526202647.214000ef@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990526210546.00988890@mail.30below.com> I think the site is Classifieds2000, but I actually found it from a link on the Weather Underground... Dunno if I'm going to put someone's knickers in a knot, but I found a classified (not an auction) of someone selling a NEC PC-6001A... The folks want $99.00 plus shipping. Dunno if it's worth it, but it's a *very* interesting looking machine, and never heard of one. (ad says it's from '81). Has pictures -- someone may want to go to the site just for that! http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P352+C220+A0+R96423+Q852595615 (all one line...) Sorry if I upset anyone, but it seems this machine could use a savio[u]r... Oh, location & stuff: Chico, California 95973 Post Date - 04/24/99 Just thought someone would be interested... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 26 19:54:45 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface In-Reply-To: <199905262322.AA28277@world.std.com> Message-ID: > Well . . . I'd really never considered using an SMD <=>SCSI bridge. I used to have a CDC LARK drive on my CP/M system because I've always loved removable media. That was back when my elder son wasn't tall enough to get on the table, though. Now I use SCSI drives in trays. All of them are 1GB 3.5" drives. The frames are set to hold the device ID, so the drives are, by the grace of God, hot-swappable. Those little frame/tray combo's cost $15! It's the best $15 I've spent, for sure! I was aware of the ESDI drives, having used a number, and having them around the house as doorstops, etc. The most interesting ones are the 380 MB size, which, in both MINISCRIBE and MAXTOR incarnations, allow their converson from ESDI to SCSI with the swap of a single board. Complete software packages, e.g. FPGA/CPLD support software from conceptualization to programming tools want more than that, particularly if you want schematic entry software with it. I find 1GB about right. Libraries can be left on the server unless they need to travel to a client's site. I fought quite a bit with the MAXTOR 1140's. They just didn't work reliably with RLL/ERLL encoding, though they were rock solid when used with MFM. I don't know why this was . . . I bought two of these babies about ten years ago for use with a PERSTOR (remember them?) only to find that the controller and drives didn't like each other. My system drives ( also removable ) are EIDE models. I saw 10.5 GB drives for $199 (new) at Costco this morning. I'm sure one can do better, but that certainly would discourage me from paying $150 for used SCSI drives. I guess I am just too frugal . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 6:27 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >>I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly >>interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge >>controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI >>drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be >>interesting. > >Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that >I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor >XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes (M=10**6) >after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets >another 30% or so of capacity. > >Hitachi ESDI drives are available up to 1.5Gbytes or so, and work well on >Emulex ESDI<->SCSI controller. > >All the above was assuming you meant size=capacity. If you meant >size=cubic feet or pounds, I'm sure you could put a 14" CDC SMD drive >on the other side of a SMD<->SCSI controller. > >Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on the >surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and >2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From max82 at surfree.com Wed May 26 19:10:38 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <374C8EF2.1A400433@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999, Marvin wrote: >drive, and then hit the platters with a bulk eraser. I have heard that it >is possible to recover data from the HD even after doing a wipedisk by >removing the platters and then analyzing the platters (urban legend?) Certainly, it's possible to do anything. However, for a person to be sick enough to actually spend hours recovering personal data from a hard drive which is of no beneficial value to him is beyond my imagination. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From roblwill at usaor.net Wed May 26 23:01:57 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Interesting thing on slashdot Message-ID: <01bea7f5$aa400120$908ea6d1@the-general> I work for a small Lawn & Garden sales/repair shop. We keep all the service/sales/inventory records on a TRS-80 Model 3 that we picked up at a flea market for $15 The only "upgrade" is that it now has IBM 360k FH floppy drives, because the doors on the originals were broken off. ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: ss@allegro.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Interesting thing on slashdot I forwarded the contest note to a friend who still uses his Altair 8800 to burn ROMs for his company! (He assembled the Altair when it was new) He's planning on entering, but will decline if he wins...because he doesn't want to give up his machine! Stan From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed May 26 20:41:29 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oops! Under the 7100C, there was a 3127A (smaller (3.5") version of the same thing), and a 4th generation xerog of the docs! According to the docs, the 7100 can handle two hard drives ESDI or 412/506! No flopy support (present on some other models. The docs include the 3527, but not the 3127. Same? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From fmc at reanimators.org Wed May 26 20:34:44 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher"'s message of "Wed, 26 May 1999 16:15:54 -0600" References: <000601bea7c5$53160320$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <199905270134.SAA75435@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > Has anyone ever used a SCSI-hosted bride controller of this sort with > essentially no problems at all? If so, I'd surely like to know which one > and how it was implemented. Um, yeah. I've had several of the Emulex MD21s in service on up to 300MB drives. They worked. Especially after we got the problem child to put his drive cabinet on his desk instead of on the floor. Here's another question for Chuck: if it was purely an economic decision, why did Sun's sd driver require the ACB4000 or MD21? I once tried to get my 2/120 w/SunOS 3.5 to talk to a SCSI disk. No go. So I tried again, with a similar disk (but ESDI) behind an MD21, and it worked just fine. -Frank McConnell From fmc at reanimators.org Wed May 26 20:39:03 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Thu, 27 May 1999 00:13:37 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <199905270139.SAA75694@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed > some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics > plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 > or so... Ouch! I've paid US$11.00 or so each (at Halted, in 1993), and didn't grumble too much because at that price it still beat the hassle of splitting a 50-wire flat cable to make it fit a solder-tail connector. -Frank McConnell From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed May 26 20:58:45 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: what is this? BASIS108 Message-ID: <4b2d074c.247e00d5@aol.com> some guy locally has one for sale. I thought it was a foreign-made apple compatible but not sure. can anyone clarify? system disks are manuals are included with the machine, i've been told. I hope it's worth $20 i'm willing to offer the guy for it. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed May 26 20:54:42 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier)" (May 27, 0:13) References: Message-ID: <9905270254.ZM6446@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 27, 0:13, Tony Duell wrote: > Yes, but have you seen the price of IDC DD50 plugs? Last time I needed > some, the standard 'Amphenol' 50 pin plugs (like overgrown Centronics > plugs) were a couple of pounds a time, but the DD50s were \pounds 17.00 > or so... > > I must admit they're (DD50s) a much nicer connector, though. You can get Amphenol IDC ones that take *standard* ribbon cable (not the delicate half-pitch stuff) from Videk, for about a fiver. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed May 26 21:32:43 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: You will all suffer with me!!! In-Reply-To: <374BC294.F5F968E5@home.com> Message-ID: HA! I'll bet that got your attention!!! =-D Since it's you...you...you PEOPLE who have inspired me to continue this mad hobby of collecting and restoring computers, you will have to suffer every step of the way with me... ...as I get my Vector Graphic MZ converted to a Single-User CP/M workhorse... ...as I finally get my SWTPC 6800 into functional condition... ...as I transfer 10 zillion tons of DEC minicomputers from my garage into the narrow kitchen hallway, down a narrow flight of stairs into my basement. YES! You will ALL suffer with me! All of you!!! =-D :) --- So I moved the TS05 in the short rack from the garage to the basement so I can finally hook it up to the MVaxII. There's just nothing quite like DEC gear to work up a manly sweat...and a manly scent. *sniff* BTW I've found a wonderful way to get DEC racks down stairs (with the equipment removed, of course)...you simply lay them down on the smoothest surface and SLIIIIIIIIIDE them down. Of course, carpeting makes this much more pleasant and much less damaging to the gear. It seems much safer than having a 300 pound rack topple over on my chest. It also helps if there is a person on either end to slow its descent or else you end up with a hole in the world at the bottom. (Perhaps, it was a rapidly descending DEC rack that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs...hmmm...) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Wed May 26 21:55:23 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: what is this? BASIS108 In-Reply-To: <4b2d074c.247e00d5@aol.com> Message-ID: Yup... It is an Apple ][ clone with the z80 card built right into the motherboard. George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Wed, 26 May 1999 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > some guy locally has one for sale. I thought it was a foreign-made apple > compatible but not sure. can anyone clarify? system disks are manuals are > included with the machine, i've been told. I hope it's worth $20 i'm willing > to offer the guy for it. > From allisonp at world.std.com Wed May 26 22:20:07 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <199905270320.AA18749@world.std.com> <> It's a foolish practice. Running Norton's diskwipe is a good thing but a FYI: disk wipe write a patternover the dat file to reduce it's recoverability. You can establish which modulation technique was used by looking at the crystal. If it's a harmonic of 5 MHz, it's MFM, if it's a harmonic of 7.5 MHz, it's probably RLL. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 6:55 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface >> > >Who wants/needs?: >SMS OMTI 7100 REV C has 50 pin dual row header (SCSI?), power >connector, 34 pin dual row header with two 20 pin (MFM? RLL? ESDI? - who >knows which it is?) EPROM is labelled 1002286-A > > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed May 26 23:02:51 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Another Univac Message-ID: <199905270402.AAA18285@platy.cs.unc.edu> Today I got back to the other Univac bit, the one that got towed away by somebody else while I was slobbering all over the 9200. This is the one that is going to sacrifice some parts to keep another Univac running. But the scrapper now wants some actual cash for it, instead of just a few bucks that he hinted at before. Guess he realized that it still has about the same scrap value even after he pulls out those few parts... Anyway, I had the chance to look at it closely, and I _still_ don't know what it is. I did take notes, and have posted them on a web page. But (#@!$%) I forgot to bring the camera, so I have no pics to show. Here is the URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/univac/whatisit.html Please take a glance at that, and if you can help ID this thing, let me know. There is also the possibility that it could be up for grabs, since I already have more Univac than I know what to do with. I'll probably want it for myself if it is somehow needed by the 9200. Otherwise, it will be available to anyone who will cover the costs of purchase, storage, shipping, etc. If nobody claims it, it might get melted down as soon as one week from today. Bill. From marvin at rain.org Wed May 26 23:06:44 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: Message-ID: <374CC4D4.407480EA@rain.org> Max Eskin wrote: > > On Wed, 26 May 1999, Marvin wrote: > >drive, and then hit the platters with a bulk eraser. I have heard that it > >is possible to recover data from the HD even after doing a wipedisk by > >removing the platters and then analyzing the platters (urban legend?) > > Certainly, it's possible to do anything. However, for a person to be sick > enough to actually spend hours recovering personal data from a hard drive > which is of no beneficial value to him is beyond my imagination. Note that I didn't specify the type of data nor the application that someone might spend the time to try and recover the data. I can see we need to work on your imagination :). From marvin at rain.org Wed May 26 23:14:22 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: <199905270320.AA19146@world.std.com> Message-ID: <374CC69E.4ABAB0C6@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > > Delete and format will pretty much clean the disk. I think that would depend on the platform. Hmmm, were you referring to a low-level format vs a high leve )DOS) format? > > Then the disk is useless and you much as well hit it with a hammer as the > positioner servo information is gone. That depends on the type of drive. I have changed platters on MFM/RLL PC drives, low level formatted the thing, and it ran without problems. Did the same thing on an IDE drive ... that one didn't work so well afterwards :). From donm at cts.com Wed May 26 23:38:54 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: <002f01bea7da$3983ca40$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Well . . . I'd really never considered using an SMD <=>SCSI bridge. I used > to have a CDC LARK drive on my CP/M system because I've always loved > removable media. That was back when my elder son wasn't tall enough to get > on the table, though. Now I use SCSI drives in trays. All of them are 1GB > 3.5" drives. The frames are set to hold the device ID, so the drives are, > by the grace of God, hot-swappable. Those little frame/tray combo's cost > $15! It's the best $15 I've spent, for sure! > > I was aware of the ESDI drives, having used a number, and having them around > the house as doorstops, etc. The most interesting ones are the 380 MB size, > which, in both MINISCRIBE and MAXTOR incarnations, allow their converson > from ESDI to SCSI with the swap of a single board. I rather prefer the 760mb ones, and have several running even now. The same ESDI to SCSI comment is equally valid with them as they came in both versions. > Complete software packages, e.g. FPGA/CPLD support software from > conceptualization to programming tools want more than that, particularly if > you want schematic entry software with it. I find 1GB about right. > Libraries can be left on the server unless they need to travel to a client's > site. > > I fought quite a bit with the MAXTOR 1140's. They just didn't work reliably > with RLL/ERLL encoding, though they were rock solid when used with MFM. I It may have been a controller/drive compatibility thing, as I ran one of those in RLL mode for a number of years until it apparently 'shed a head'. That's when I replaced it with a 2190. - don > don't know why this was . . . I bought two of these babies about ten years > ago for use with a PERSTOR (remember them?) only to find that the controller > and drives didn't like each other. > > My system drives ( also removable ) are EIDE models. I saw 10.5 GB drives > for $199 (new) at Costco this morning. I'm sure one can do better, but that > certainly would discourage me from paying $150 for used SCSI drives. I > guess I am just too frugal . . . > > Dick > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 6:27 PM > Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the > next frontier) > > > >>I've had decent results with the ADAPTEC 4070's too. What I'm mainly > >>interested in is having a boxed drive, in this case, complete with bridge > >>controller, which moves from system to system, as I do with my native SCSI > >>drives. Unfortunately, there aren't any MFM/RLL drives big enough to be > >>interesting. > > > >Someone should correct me if I'm wrong (I'd be interested in knowing that > >I'm wrong!), but the largest capacity MFM geometry is that of the Maxtor > >XT2190 (1024 cylinders * 15 heads), giving you just under 150 Mbytes > (M=10**6) > >after formatting at 19 sectors/track. And the RLL version gets > >another 30% or so of capacity. > > > >Hitachi ESDI drives are available up to 1.5Gbytes or so, and work well on > >Emulex ESDI<->SCSI controller. > > > >All the above was assuming you meant size=capacity. If you meant > >size=cubic feet or pounds, I'm sure you could put a 14" CDC SMD drive > >on the other side of a SMD<->SCSI controller. > > > >Of course, large embedded-controller SCSI drives are readily available on > the > >surplus market these days. 9 Gbyte drives start below $150.00, and > >2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. > > > >-- > > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > > From BobMcPhail at aol.com Wed May 26 23:51:07 1999 From: BobMcPhail at aol.com (BobMcPhail@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS Message-ID: <638d1b4e.247e293b@aol.com> Does anyone know where I can find a working Commodore 64GS system? I've been looking for the last two years with no luck. Please e-mail me if you know where I can purchase one. Thanks, Bob From donm at cts.com Wed May 26 23:56:22 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: <199905270320.AA19264@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > > The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it > was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to > 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the Do you mean that Maxtor used only about the first third of the available platter for data? That seems like a bit of a waste. I do recall - years back - discussion about how the XT1085 could be extended, but not by a factor of three! - don > higher bit packing, and EDSI with the higher data rates put more data on > a square inch of media and make more sense than pushing the mechanics of > the drive. > > <2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. > > And they are small too! > > Allison > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu May 27 00:08:20 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <000601bea7fe$f11883c0$0100c0a8@fuj03> I don't think they could be extended to 4K cylinders either. 1224 x 15 was a pretty common geometry. It even appeared in some BIOS drive tables. The 4380E was built like that wasn't it? Most manufacturers had an ST-506 interfaced drive with the same geometry as their ESDI drives so they had someplace to put the platters/HDA's which didn't handle the servo well enough. One surface was dedicated for servo, IIRC. The 4380 was about 1224x15x35 or 36 (take your pick, and set the jumper). The WD1007 ESDI controllers would make that look like 636x16x63 or some such. You didn't have to sacrifice capacity in order to use that. It was their RLL and MFM controllers that couldn't translate track/sector geometries. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 10:57 PM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >On Wed, 26 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > >> > > > > > >> The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it >> was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to >> 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the > >Do you mean that Maxtor used only about the first third of the available >platter for data? That seems like a bit of a waste. I do recall - years >back - discussion about how the XT1085 could be extended, but not by a >factor of three! > - don > >> higher bit packing, and EDSI with the higher data rates put more data on >> a square inch of media and make more sense than pushing the mechanics of >> the drive. >> >> > > <2 Gbyte drives seem to get around $40. >> >> And they are small too! >> >> Allison >> >> > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu May 27 01:19:23 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Used DEC equipment for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <374ce3bb.1351871017@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Anyone after PDP-11 gear? Check this out. -=-=- -=-=- On Thu, 27 May 1999 02:33:09 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: "Kim Waggoner" >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: Used DEC equipment for sale >>Lines: 11 >>Organization: WeatherBank, Inc. >>X-Priority: 3 >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 >>Message-ID: >>Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 02:33:09 GMT >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.4.97.165 >>X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net >>X-Trace: news.rdc1.tx.home.com 927772389 24.4.97.165 (Wed, 26 May 1999 19:33:09 PDT) >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:33:09 PDT >>Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.qis.net.MISMATCH!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.dec:1139 >> >>We have migrated out of our DEC PDP-11 systems. >>If anyone is interested in purchasing our used DEC equipment, please E-mail >>dec@weatherbank.com or call Kim Waggoner at 405-359-0773. >> >>We have 3 Dyna-5 12 slot backplanes, 11/73's Mentec 11/73's (18mhz with 4MB cache). >>Emulex comm boards, SCSI and ESDI disks. MultiTech modems, KXJ-11 I/O processors ect.. >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..." From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu May 27 01:46:25 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS In-Reply-To: <638d1b4e.247e293b@aol.com> from "BobMcPhail@aol.com" at May 27, 1999 12:51:07 AM Message-ID: <199905270646.AAA13085@calico.litterbox.com> > > Does anyone know where I can find a working Commodore 64GS system? I've been > looking for the last two years with no luck. Please e-mail me if you know > where I can purchase one. Thanks, > > Bob > A what? um, I can see three possibilities of what you're thinking of. 1. A commodore 64 2. A commodore 128 3. An Apple2 GS. to the best of my knowledge there was never a Commodore 64 GS. I'm betting you're looking for the 128 model that had the seperate keyboard. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu May 27 01:49:44 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Vax! Message-ID: <199905270649.AAA13117@calico.litterbox.com> Woohoo! I got my vs3100 running with the hobbiest CD! Installed it on the big hard disk too! Now I just have to find where I printed out the licence before my PC ate itself. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed May 26 22:27:07 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the In-Reply-To: <199905262151.OAA69189@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Wed, 26 May 1999 01:02:21 +0100 (BST)" Message-ID: <199905270728.DAA13944@smtp.interlog.com> On 26 May 99 at 14:51, Frank McConnell wrote: > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Most later workstations had SCSI interfaces for the hard disk (even if > > they then broke that by insisting on an ST506 drive on the other side of > > a SCSI->ST506 interface, as ICL and Torch both did). Some older > > Sun did this too. It wasn't 'til SunOS 4.0 that the SCSI-disk driver > would actually talk to SCSI disks. Before that, it wanted to talk to > an Adaptec ACB4000 or an Emulex MD21 (for ESDI disks). > > I think I remember reading somewhere that this was done because the > SCSI-to-whatever interface had the intelligence for bad-block > remapping. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cost of the > drives had something to do with it; I remember Amiga folks scheming to > use ACB4000 boards with their SCSI interfaces because it was cheaper > than buying a SCSI disk, and I've opened a few Mac SCSI hard disk > boxes to find the same sort of thing inside. > > -Frank McConnell > Atari ST hard drives had a weird similiar configuration driven by cost and proprietary considerations I'm sure. The ASCSI (?) output from the ST was converted by an ICD(company name) adaptor to SCSI and then an Adaptec board converted that to either MFM or RLL. Dont want to open it up but ISTR the main chip on the Adaptec board was a WD 1004S (?) ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu May 27 02:37:34 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS In-Reply-To: <199905270646.AAA13085@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > to the best of my knowledge there was never a Commodore 64 GS. I'm betting > you're looking for the 128 model that had the seperate keyboard. The Commodore 64GS is a keyboardless game system, based on the C64. I've seen some pictures of it in magazines, and apparently it was available in Europe for a while, but I don't think it was a raging success. I thing GS stands for Game System in this case. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu May 27 02:41:08 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: VCF 3.0 ANNOUNCEMENT: VINTAGE COMPUTER FAIRE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > A stock computer is generally more representative of the original. However, > > there are definitely some cases where a modification was required to the > > original to fix a bug that came from the factory and was pretty much > > mandatory if that machine was to be useful. > > The question was clearly not understood. The CT1042 is a 16line by 32 > character terminal board that can drive a TV or monitor. the single most > desireable mod for it was to get 64characters per line. That mod was > widely done and improved the usefulness. Ok, let me clear this up. I must admit I had to go back to the rule (8b) myself to read it over again. The intent of this rule was not to disallow any modifications to the computer, although it can certainly be interpreted that way. The intent was to penalize entries that did not have all the original (stock) parts. So say a computer suffered through a lightning strike and had to have half its chips replaced. That machine would not get full points because it would have been considerably rebuilt. The specific question of whether to penalize modifications made to a computer that were reasonable and desirable for the time was not (I don't think) discussed. I will bring it up in committee and then report back what our conclusion is, with a modification to rule 8b. > > used with the computer to make it a whole system would make for a better > > exhibit. An Altair with an Altair VCT or Comter terminal would probably > > That would be anything but typical as the average Altair in 1976 didn't > have mass storage. The rules for the machine in the gap between the > mark-8 and the trs80 (~1974 ->late 1977) really dont fit that pattern. > it was the days of a TTY was 1000$ and a used VT05 terminal easily 500$. > Software was typically casette tape or paper tape. Someone in 1978 that > showed upat a club with non-tty terminal and a disk system was usually the > subject of the entire meeting! That tended to persist through 1980 as > TRS80s an apples were off in their own groups. Yes, anything but typical but the presence of those particular terminals would therefore make the exhibit extraordinary and would make it a candidate for some of the special award categories in section 4 of the rules (specifically, "Best Preservation - Obscurity"). However, as the rules in section 8b imply, a "typical" setup would be likely to score higher in the judging. This needs to be made more implicit, probably in the form of an additional subsection, which will be discussed and a determination made by the committee. > Also what about those that were using systems like the KIM-1, IMP48, EVK68 > and a bunch of other SBCs that were so typical before the advent of the > cheap single peice systems like the trs80s. I don't see any particular points of conflict in the rules with regards to single-boards. They would do fine in competition. Is there anything in particular that you see in the rules that would go against single-board entrants? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu May 27 03:01:39 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at May 27, 1999 03:37:34 AM Message-ID: <199905270801.CAA13321@calico.litterbox.com> > > > > On Thu, 27 May 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > to the best of my knowledge there was never a Commodore 64 GS. I'm betting > > you're looking for the 128 model that had the seperate keyboard. > > The Commodore 64GS is a keyboardless game system, based on the C64. I've > seen some pictures of it in magazines, and apparently it was > available in Europe for a while, but I don't think it was a raging > success. > > I thing GS stands for Game System in this case. > > -- > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > whoa. I stand seriously corrected then. I didn't know the thing existed. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu May 27 03:10:22 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999, Colan Mitchell wrote: > If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my > apologies. > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on > discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to > be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and > educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of > lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being > weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do > something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it. > Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the > response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K > and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential > problem. The best thing to do is to instruct the potential donor to erase all sensitive personal data from the computer before its given to you, or to give you specific directions as to what should be deleted after its given to you. If you get a computer from a second hand source (i.e. not the original owner) the best thing to do is just to format the drive and leave it at that. What you do with regards with your temptation to read the material is entirely up to you. See Uncle Roger's Classic Computer Collector's Code of Conduct for suggestions: http://sinasohn.com/clascomp/ccccc.htm Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed May 26 23:32:19 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS In-Reply-To: <199905270646.AAA13085@calico.litterbox.com> References: <638d1b4e.247e293b@aol.com> from "BobMcPhail@aol.com" at May 27, 1999 12:51:07 AM Message-ID: <199905270833.EAA15788@smtp.interlog.com> On 27 May 99 at 0:46, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > > Does anyone know where I can find a working Commodore 64GS system? I've been > > looking for the last two years with no luck. Please e-mail me if you know > > where I can purchase one. Thanks, > > > > Bob > > > A what? um, I can see three possibilities of what you're thinking of. > > 1. A commodore 64 > 2. A commodore 128 > 3. An Apple2 GS. > > to the best of my knowledge there was never a Commodore 64 GS. I'm betting > you're looking for the 128 model that had the seperate keyboard. > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com There was also an 8-bit AtariXE GS ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com Let us know of your upcoming computer events for our Events Page. t3c@xoommail.com Collectors List and info http://members.xoom.com/T3C From jritorto at nut.net Wed May 26 23:48:47 1999 From: jritorto at nut.net (Jacob Ritorto) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: pdp11/45 Message-ID: Hello Classiccmp. I recently acquired a nice, rust-free, mostly-original 11/45 from an old lisp hacker in Los Altos Hills, CA. He told me that it had been running the last time he'd powered it up, which was in 1984 IIRC, but sadly, something has gone awry and it won't run now, though it seems to be close. Here's a brief summary of its status: It was originally a five-rack system with each rack containing the controllers for the housed peripherals. The bus was chained through to each rack on a BC05 and terminated with an M930. I only took the processor and the TU-10 racks, so to make troubleshooting easier, I reduced the system to only the CPU and memory boxes (memory is a 220KB box from Monolithic Systems that has unibus in and out). The processor has 12 KW of core as well, so I guess I could cut the bus down a bit more for the purpose of debugging. Mode of failure is such: I powered up the shortened system and the front panel lights lit [excitement]. Then I tried to examine some memory locations via the panel, but when I hit HALT, the RUN light stayed lit. I tried every combination of switches I thought was appropriate, but the RUN light wouldn't go off. (Sounds like a simple bus error, really.) Upon realizing that something was amiss, I decabled all the power connectors from the logic and tested the voltages, which, surprisingly, were all about 6%-9% above spec (and I'm not too sure that my VOM is accurate even though it's analog). I didn't readjust the voltages, but reconnected the power cables to the logic boards and retested the voltage levels. All stayed about the same except for the -15VDC. It dropped to about 2V. Same reading on both -15V regulators, by the way, and they seem to be connected to different areas of the backplane, but I'm not sure. There seems to be a high-pitch squeal (that sound of a laboring regulator) coming from somewhere in the power supply cluster, but there's no smoke or crackling sounds. I don't remember noticing the squeal with the power cables disconnected, but that may be a subconscious hope and not a fact. So that's my predicament. I don't have much time to mess with this beautiful old girl, so I hope someone here can increase my repairing efficiency. Help me save this great piece of computing history. In return, I'll at least give you an account on it if I get it to the point where it'll run 2.9BSD or V7. I have SMD interfaces and disks, etc and everything else I need (except a DELQA) to get it hooked up to the net. Thank you in advance. jake From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 07:47:24 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <374CC69E.4ABAB0C6@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 1999, Marvin wrote: > I think that would depend on the platform. Hmmm, were you referring to a > low-level format vs a high leve )DOS) format? It does but in most cases a high level format does munge most of the data. It may not remove all of it. In both cases (HLF or LLF) the data will require some work to recover compared to an untouched disk. > > positioner servo information is gone. > > That depends on the type of drive. I have changed platters on MFM/RLL PC Yes it does! Drive that use a stepper or mechanical/optical positioner you may get away with it. Some drive the servo information is only on one platter and as long as that one is ok no problem. Others it's embedded in the data or between the data and degaussing it is destructive. RLL/MFM PC is not an infomative description of any drive. RLL/MFM are encoding methods for data. PC drive is less spcific. > drives, low level formatted the thing, and it ran without problems. Did the > same thing on an IDE drive ... that one didn't work so well afterwards :). FYI: most IDE drives use RLL encoding and but also use wedge or embedded servo. Think of IDE as a old drive with the controller card burried on it. The servo information is drive specific usually as it placed on the platters during drive assembly. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 08:01:52 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it > > was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to > > 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the > > Do you mean that Maxtor used only about the first third of the available > platter for data? That seems like a bit of a waste. I do recall - years > back - discussion about how the XT1085 could be extended, but not by a > factor of three! No, No No... The maxtor 2190 is 1224 Cylinders by 15 heads and whatever formatting for the number of sectors. the command structure for most MFM and RLL controllers only used 1024 of the possible 4096 (10 of the available 12 bits). It's an artifact of the controller designs. Physically you can go for up to 16 heads and 4096 cylinders in the st506 interface spec'd drives. The problem was that more cylinders do not enhance speed. It's better to pack more on a given cylinder as you can access that data faster than moving heads across a lot of tracks. Please everyone prune of the unwated portions of the message. If I can do it using pine across a sluggish telnet link during the day No one has an excuse. Allison From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Thu May 27 08:02:24 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8018E5983@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> I'm not sure if it's the same kind of Selectric terminal, but about 20 years ago when I was trying to find an alternative to a Teletype to connect to my homebrew S-100 system, I acquired a used Selectric with a set of solenoids built inside its base to activate the printing mechanism. Maybe this is the model you remember. IBM had to make the base deeper to accommodate the extra actuating solenoids, so unless you placed the Selectric into a cutout or well it would sit too high above the desk for comfortable working. You'd energize solenoids in various zany combinations to tilt the type-ball correctly for each character. Electrical interface was through a 50-pin rectangular AMP connector at the rear, and I believe the solenoids needed 48 vdc. It weighed a ton. Actually, the biggest challenge in interfacing this thing to a computer was to sort out how to read one particular status signal from one of the microswitch contacts in the print mechanism, so your computer could start sending the next character at just the right moment before the mechanical cycle completely finished. Else your software had to pause a few milliseconds between characters, but there was a hidden menace awaiting if you took this easy way and just timed out for each character to finish. The starting-and-stopping would soon wear out the clutch mechanism. With the high duty cycle of computer printing (rather than manual typing) you would eventually put too much strain on the mechanism and wear it out if you didn't poll to respond to that "ready" signal. Many people don't realize the Selectrics were *completely* mechanical. No electronics, just complex and elegant mechanics. A nightmare :-) I gave mine away years ago. If I recall correctly it was a "Model 735 i/o Selectric". Maybe that name will help you track one down. I bought mine surplus from an outfit in England back in '77, but there were companies selling similar models in the USA too. They ran magazine ads in the early years of Byte and Kilobaud. There were some articles in Radio-Electronics (of Mark-8 computer project fame) describing a Selectric interface. Arlen > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Oliver [SMTP:go@ao.com] > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 4:35 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? > > Back in the days before "glass" consoles, computers often (if > they had them) used typewriter devices as console input and > output stations. Many minicomputers used Teletypes, but Control > Data used (believe it or not) IBM Selectric typewriters. > -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 08:04:29 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: <199905270649.AAA13117@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: > Woohoo! I got my vs3100 running with the hobbiest CD! Installed it on the > big hard disk too! Now I just have to find where I printed out the licence > before my PC ate itself. My VS3100/m76 has been running it for two days... ;) It's good ole VMS, and in my case an upgrade from 5.5 to 7.2... yeha I'm modern again. Allison From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu May 27 08:22:23 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990527092223.007a7980@mail.wincom.net> At 04:32 PM 5/26/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my >apologies. > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on >discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to >be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and >educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of >lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being >weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do >something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it. > Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the >response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K >and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential >problem. > > >Colan > In my opinion you are doing the right thing in just formatting the HD. If too much noise is made about this problem the word will get around and people will destroy their discarded computers rather than let them get into the hands of collecters. In some cases users don't know how to scrub the hard drive, and in others the computer has gone down and they can't erase it without going to some expense. Possibly somebody (Sam?) could come up with a "Computer Collector's Code of Ethics" which would include erasing any confidential material on acquired computers. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu May 27 08:44:29 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at May 27, 99 03:37:34 am Message-ID: <199905271344.GAA08574@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/c2bedf51/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Thu May 27 09:29:35 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) Message-ID: <001301bea84d$6cb98bc0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Please see comments below: Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp@world.std.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 7:02 AM Subject: Re: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) >> > The 2190 is 1224*15. However the number of cylinders can be increased (it >> > was controller limit not the drive) the limit, I think is closer to >> > 4096*16*18*512 or roughly over 600mb. The problem is that RLL with the >> >> Do you mean that Maxtor used only about the first third of the available >> platter for data? That seems like a bit of a waste. I do recall - years >> back - discussion about how the XT1085 could be extended, but not by a >> factor of three! >No, No No... > >The maxtor 2190 is 1224 Cylinders by 15 heads and whatever formatting for >the number of sectors. This lies within the capacity limit of 504 MB imposed by many older '486 motherboards. >the command structure for most MFM and RLL controllers only used >1024 of the possible 4096 (10 of the available 12 bits). It's an artifact >of the controller designs. Where do these 12 bits fit? The 10-bit limit was inherited from the WD1010 chip's register geometry. This was frequently a motherboard/BIOS-imposed restriction. If the Motherboard doesn't recognize drive types with more than 1024 cylinders, the controller won't either. Several controllers offered various ways around this, e.g. masquerading fewer heads up to the maximum of 16 and reducing the number of cylinders correspondingly, and, likewise, fiddling with the number of sectors so that it was up to the BIOS-compatible maximum of 63 whereas the drive only had 15 heads, again with a corresponding reduction in the number of cylinders. However, if the BIOS on the PC motherboard supports drives up to but not exceeding the 1024x16x63x512-byte configuration, then that's all it will do. >Physically you can go for up to 16 heads and 4096 cylinders in the st506 >interface spec'd drives. The problem was that more cylinders do not >enhance speed. It's better to pack more on a given cylinder as you can >access that data faster than moving heads across a lot of tracks. Please explain what you mean by this. I've not yet gotten feedback from my ex-girlfriend's son, currently chief eng'r at Maxtor, but I've seen no information which suggests that the 2190 drive actually had 4K cylinders. You must be referring to some geometry aliasing stunt performed by some controllers. I'm mystified. I can see no way a controller can circumvent the BIOS, which is the vehicle by means of which the OS communicates with the HDD at the lowest level. The only exception I've run into is the Lark Associates controller, which lies to the motherboard about what it attached and presents, say, my 8760 as two physical drives, of which one is at the maximal 504 MB capacity, while the remainder of the drive appears to be on a separate physical drive. >Please everyone prune of the unwated portions of the message. If I can do >it using pine across a sluggish telnet link during the day No one has an >excuse. > >Allison > > From cfandt at netsync.net Thu May 27 09:49:57 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Code of Ethics was: Re: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990527092223.007a7980@mail.wincom.net> References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990527104103.00ad8d60@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:22 AM 5/27/99 -0400, Charles E. Fox said something like: -- snip -- > In my opinion you are doing the right thing in just formatting the HD. If >too much noise is made about this problem the word will get around and >people will destroy their discarded computers rather than let them get into >the hands of collecters. Agreed. Paranoia on a poor news day seems to get the press' yellow journalism mode switched on. > In some cases users don't know how to scrub the hard drive, and in others >the computer has gone down and they can't erase it without going to some >expense. > Possibly somebody (Sam?) could come up with a "Computer Collector's Code >of Ethics" which would include erasing any confidential material on >acquired computers. Hasn't something like this been written in the ClassicCmp FAQ from the ClassicCmp originator, Bill Whitson? (now where the heck did I file that FAQ? It's been so dang long ago that I'd seen it . . .) Also, Sam just referred us to go see Uncle Roger's Classic Computer Collector's Code of Conduct at: http://sinasohn.com/clascomp/ccccc.htm This is a fine code which Roger had come up with sometime ago. We should closely adhere to it as our personal policy. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu May 27 10:22:29 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: from "allisonp@world.std.com" at "May 27, 1999 9: 4:29 am" Message-ID: <199905271522.LAA00936@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > > > Woohoo! I got my vs3100 running with the hobbiest CD! Installed it on the > > big hard disk too! Now I just have to find where I printed out the licence > > before my PC ate itself. > > My VS3100/m76 has been running it for two days... ;) > > It's good ole VMS, and in my case an upgrade from 5.5 to 7.2... yeha I'm > modern again. > > Allison I'm hoping to get the vs3100 up here. I wish DEC had put BasicPlus or whatever the Basic from VMS was for hobbiest use so we could really show that Basic code can be done quite nicely on the Vax (and PDP's). C and Pascal are ok -- but the Visual Basic folks need to see a real nice basic in action. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 27 10:28:40 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: from "allisonp@world.std.com" at May 27, 99 09:04:29 am Message-ID: <199905271528.IAA26968@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1132 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/99e45fd9/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 27 10:42:39 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: <199905271522.LAA00936@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> from "Bill Pechter" at May 27, 99 11:22:29 am Message-ID: <199905271542.IAA27319@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/7f8479fa/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 11:25:12 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: <199905271522.LAA00936@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> Message-ID: > > I'm hoping to get the vs3100 up here. I wish DEC had put BasicPlus > or whatever the Basic from VMS was for hobbiest use so we could really > show that Basic code can be done quite nicely on the Vax (and PDP's). > > C and Pascal are ok -- but the Visual Basic folks need to see a real > nice basic in action. > > Bill I'd have to check the SPD but I remember Basic being in there too! If I remember right it was Pascal/Basic/C/Cobol and a bunch of other things. Allison > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 11:34:25 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: <199905271528.IAA26968@shell2.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > > How well does it do with a 16Mb system? All I really need is the Base OS, 16mb is the biggest machine I have! Does real well. It will run well in a 8mb box too. The system required I think 4 or 5mb as a minimum for sensible operation. Unlike PC based OSs VMS is NOT a memory hog. > Clustering Software, and DECnet. The VS3100/20 is currently running 6.1, > and really needs to be running a minimum of 6.2 to cluster in nicely (it's > already clustered in). If the 7.2 memory requirements are to severe, I > think I've got a copy of 6.2 on TK50, just not sure if it's any good. If you can run 6.1 you can run 7.2. I'm still clustering with 5.5/5.4! However ,in the past clustering has to be done with all node running the same or similar major version level and pretty close on the revision level. > BTW, anyone know of any real advantages to running DECnet Phase V instead of > DECnet Phase IV? My cluster is currently running DECnet Phase V, but I'm Phase V was to solve the problem of more than 65000 nodes in phase IV and I don't know it adds anything more of any great value for smaller systems. Allison From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu May 27 11:32:36 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:18 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: from "allisonp@world.std.com" at "May 27, 1999 12:25:12 pm" Message-ID: <199905271632.MAA01098@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > > > > I'm hoping to get the vs3100 up here. I wish DEC had put BasicPlus > > or whatever the Basic from VMS was for hobbiest use so we could really > > show that Basic code can be done quite nicely on the Vax (and PDP's). > > > > C and Pascal are ok -- but the Visual Basic folks need to see a real > > nice basic in action. > > > > Bill > > I'd have to check the SPD but I remember Basic being in there too! > > If I remember right it was Pascal/Basic/C/Cobol and a bunch of other > things. > > Allison Pascal/C/Cobol are in the release docs along with DECnet (PhaseIV and OSI?) but no Basic. Got the CD's -- just hoping for less sysadmin y2k-desktop work so I can get to it. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu May 27 11:34:56 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: <199905271542.IAA27319@shell2.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "May 27, 1999 8:42:39 am" Message-ID: <199905271634.MAA01119@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > > I'm hoping to get the vs3100 up here. I wish DEC had put BasicPlus > > or whatever the Basic from VMS was for hobbiest use so we could really > > show that Basic code can be done quite nicely on the Vax (and PDP's). > > > > C and Pascal are ok -- but the Visual Basic folks need to see a real > > nice basic in action. > > You do have VAX Basic on the VAX Hobbyist CD. However, the space that > should have gone to it on the Alpha CD is taken up with Java and Netscape > (which you can download, grrrr.) I was really hoping to get the latest and > greatest version of Alpha BASIC. Still, except for that, the CD's have the > main stuff I'm interested in. > > Zane Well, I'm set then. Now to install and try to build DECnet for Linux. (Maybe find a PDT11/150 and run Async DECnet/RT again...) Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 11:43:11 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: <199905271634.MAA01119@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> Message-ID: > Well, I'm set then. Now to install and try to build DECnet for Linux. > > (Maybe find a PDT11/150 and run Async DECnet/RT again...) > > Bill Or a Pro350, PDT11/130 or a VS2000. Allison From elvey at hal.com Thu May 27 11:55:10 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <199905271634.MAA01119@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <199905271655.JAA15879@civic.hal.com> Hi I am having problems in bringing up a CPM on an old IMSAI. Here are some of the issues I have: 1. Are the directory sectors interleaved like the file sectors are? 2. When I checked the size of the CPM image that was on the unoffical CPM site, it was 60 sectors in size. When I looked at the manual, it said that this would be loaded by a boot loader that would load in locations 3400H to 4D80H. This is only 51 sectors. This also matches the remaining track zero plus track 1 of a single density disk. What am I suppose to do? Thanks Dwight From cmcmanis at freegate.com Thu May 27 12:04:09 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: "default" DHV11 CSR? Message-ID: <4.1.19990527100307.03d87810@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not seeing it. --Chuck From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu May 27 12:02:22 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: "default" DHV11 CSR? Message-ID: <990527130222.214000ef@trailing-edge.com> >Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) >I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not >seeing it. All but the earliest KA650's have a built in SYSGEN CONFIG utility which you can check for such answers. Under VMS, this is how it's done: $ mcr sysgen SYSGEN> CONFIG DEVICE> dhv11 1 DEVICE> [control-Z] Device: DHV11 Name: TXA CSR: 760440* Vector: 300* Support: yes As a side note, SHOW DEV from the >>> console prompt won't list things like serial multiplexers anyway. I suspect, however, that you're having a NetBSD problem and not a hardware configuration problem, as NetBSD for the most part completely ignores issues involving "standard" CSR's and Vectors. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu May 27 12:37:16 1999 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: MVax II FOR FREE Message-ID: <19990527173716.DD8AD21159@iaehv.iae.nl> I am only relaying this message, please contact the poster. On 1999-05-27 bfarnam@skantech.net said: bf>I have an old MVax II (630QE Rack Cab, (2) RA-90, (1) TK-50, (1) bf>TS-05) that I need to move this weekend. I would like to find bf>someone who can put this hardware to good use, because come Tuesday, bf>it gets trashed. Do you know of anyone who would pick it up. It is bf>located in Greenville, North Carolina and I have UNLIMITED Licenses bf>for OpenVMS and DECNet in MY name that I will sign over. If bf>interested, or know someone that is, they can reach me via pager bf>during the day, as I don't check my e-mail that often at 888.511. bf>8830 or in the evening at 252.974.0162 bf>I thank you in advance for you time, bf>Brett A. Farnam bf>Washington, North Carolina -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ I'm Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - Visit VAXarchive! http://www.vaxarchive.org/ (primary) http://www.sevensages.org/vax/ (mirror) http://www.coyote.org/mirrors/vaxarchive/ (mirror) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From mbg at world.std.com Thu May 27 13:24:15 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: "default" DHV11 CSR? Message-ID: <199905271824.AA28118@world.std.com> >Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) >I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not >seeing it. There is no one set CSR assigned to the first DHV11... it depends on what else is in your system. The lowest address a DHV can be configured for is 17760020. Subsequent ones increase by 20(8). The vector also depends on what else is in the system. Since the uVaxIII has the config command, you might want to try using that, and enter all the devices on your system, and it will provide you with what the correct configuration should be according to the configuration rules. Just for the heck of it, I checked the RT-11 SYSGEN procedure to see what it uses for a default for the first DH-type interface, and that is 17760440. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 27 13:39:13 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: from "allisonp@world.std.com" at May 27, 99 12:34:25 pm Message-ID: <199905271839.LAA32078@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/724d8f9c/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu May 27 13:45:44 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: <199905271634.MAA01119@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> from "Bill Pechter" at May 27, 99 12:34:56 pm Message-ID: <199905271845.LAA32283@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 721 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/59a0170a/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Thu May 27 13:56:22 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Vax! In-Reply-To: <199905271845.LAA32283@shell2.aracnet.com> References: <199905271634.MAA01119@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990527135622.01108ba0@vpwisfirewall> At 11:45 AM 5/27/99 -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Well, I'm set then. Now to install and try to build DECnet for Linux. > >Not that difficult. > >> (Maybe find a PDT11/150 and run Async DECnet/RT again...) > >I've yet to get my Linux box to talk to the PDP-11 I've got running >DECnet/RSX-11M (Phase IV). As I understand it I'm the >only person to try and get Linux to talk to a PDP-11 via DECnet. As a long shot, try to find someone in technical support at Thursby Software . They made a DECnet for the Mac. My company once licensed their code to port it to the Amiga. I bet they still have someone in tech support who might want to help. I once had my Amiga talking to a DEC Pro 350 and a MicroVAX over DECnet, for example. - John From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 14:17:26 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <199905271655.JAA15879@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > > 1. Are the directory sectors interleaved like the file sectors are? The boot sectors (reserved tracks) are generally not, the rest of the disk is. CPM it self does not care it's a BIOS issue.. > 2. When I checked the size of the CPM image that was on the > unoffical CPM site, it was 60 sectors in size. When I looked > at the manual, it said that this would be loaded by a boot > loader that would load in locations 3400H to 4D80H. This is > only 51 sectors. This also matches the remaining track > zero plus track 1 of a single density disk. What am I suppose > to do? that means the saved image has either dead space at the end or a bios there. It could be that teh file was off a system with 4k allcoation blocks so fine sized tend to round up. The standard size for cpm a is: CCP 800h 2048 bytes Bdos E00h 3584 bytes BIOS variable 8"sssd example is 1500bytes. This is generally stuffed on to the sssd 8" as the first two tracks of the disk, 52 sectors total or 6656 bytes for all three components. Allison From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 27 14:48:54 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: References: <199905271655.JAA15879@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990527124702.03cd5750@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Its definitely up to the bios, when I wrote the BIOS for the Cromemco 16FDC I ran out of space, so I took advantage of the fact that a) I could write full tracks and b) that most SD disks could handle DD and wrote the first two tracks of the disk double density, even if the disk was "formatted" for single density. (I also wrote the formatter (in Turbo PASCAL no less!)) --Chuck At 03:17 PM 5/27/99 -0400, you wrote: > >On Thu, 27 May 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: >> >> 1. Are the directory sectors interleaved like the file sectors are? > >The boot sectors (reserved tracks) are generally not, the rest of the disk >is. CPM it self does not care it's a BIOS issue.. > >> 2. When I checked the size of the CPM image that was on the >> unoffical CPM site, it was 60 sectors in size. When I looked >> at the manual, it said that this would be loaded by a boot >> loader that would load in locations 3400H to 4D80H. This is >> only 51 sectors. This also matches the remaining track >> zero plus track 1 of a single density disk. What am I suppose >> to do? > > > >that means the saved image has either dead space at the end or a bios >there. It could be that teh file was off a system with 4k allcoation >blocks so fine sized tend to round up. > >The standard size for cpm a is: > > CCP 800h 2048 bytes > Bdos E00h 3584 bytes > BIOS variable 8"sssd example is 1500bytes. > >This is generally stuffed on to the sssd 8" as the first two tracks of the >disk, 52 sectors total or 6656 bytes for all three components. > >Allison > > From elvey at hal.com Thu May 27 15:00:26 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905272000.NAA15902@civic.hal.com> allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > The standard size for cpm a is: > > CCP 800h 2048 bytes > Bdos E00h 3584 bytes > BIOS variable 8"sssd example is 1500bytes. > > This is generally stuffed on to the sssd 8" as the first two tracks of the > disk, 52 sectors total or 6656 bytes for all three components. Hi Allison This also doesn't make sense. Track 0 sector 1 is the boot loader. That leaves 25 sectors in the first track. 26 in the second track makes a total of 51. This is contrary to your example. You only have 6528 bytes or a little fewer for BIOS variables. Still that doesn't explain the 7680 bytes in the file from the site. I still don't know what to do. Dwight From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu May 27 15:12:30 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <990527161230.214000ef@trailing-edge.com> > Still that doesn't explain the 7680 bytes in the file from >the site. I still don't know what to do. Well, 7680 bytes = 60 128-byte sectors, which is more than the first two tracks on an 8" floppy. I suspect that the "file on the site" is from an implementation where the boot track was double density or on something other than an 8" floppy. (30 256-byte sectors, 15 per track, maybe? Sounds like a 5.25" DD format.) According to my DR "CP/M 2 Alteration Guide", track 0 sector 1 is the cold start loader (bootstrap). Track 0 Sectors 2-17 are the CCP. Track 0 Sectors 18-26 and Track 1 Sectors 1-19 are the BDOS. And Track 1 Sectors 20-26 are the BIOS. This is for a plain-vanilla 8" SSSD installation, of course. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From elvey at hal.com Thu May 27 15:13:33 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990527124702.03cd5750@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <199905272013.NAA15907@civic.hal.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > Its definitely up to the bios, when I wrote the BIOS for the Cromemco 16FDC > I ran out of space, so I took advantage of the fact that a) I could write > full tracks and b) that most SD disks could handle DD and wrote the first > two tracks of the disk double density, even if the disk was "formatted" for > single density. (I also wrote the formatter (in Turbo PASCAL no less!)) Hi Chuck This isn't an option for me. I'm trying to get it onto a SSSD disk system. I can't do formatting/reading in double density with the controller I have. Since I am bringing this machine up from gound zero, I had to write my own formatter in assembly and hand toggle it in. I am now to the point that I can download data through the serial port from a PC. Still, I have to toggle in the start address. I had a little space left on my boot sector so I wrote a simple serial transfer ( no hand shake ). I guess the issue is that the additional space is the BIOS and since I'll be replacing this with my own BIOS, and I write efficient code, I don't have to worry about it until I run out of space? Dwight From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 15:20:36 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <199905272000.NAA15902@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > > > The standard size for cpm a is: > > > > CCP 800h 2048 bytes > > Bdos E00h 3584 bytes > > BIOS variable 8"sssd example is 1500bytes. The word variable indicated the length not the BIOS variables. Bioses for CPM system can be very variable in size, I have one system that has a 32k bank dedicated to the bios itself. It can be as small a few hundred bytes plus the tables. > > > > This is generally stuffed on to the sssd 8" as the first two tracks of the > > disk, 52 sectors total or 6656 bytes for all three components. > > Hi Allison > This also doesn't make sense. Track 0 sector 1 is the boot loader. > That leaves 25 sectors in the first track. 26 in the second track > makes a total of 51. This is contrary to your example. You only have > 6528 bytes or a little fewer for BIOS variables. > Still that doesn't explain the 7680 bytes in the file from > the site. I still don't know what to do. > Dwight The stuff you deleted and didn't copy is the stuff you should read. The copy you have has an extended bios at the end and Nad the 128bytes for the boot are not always there as the boot is specific to the MDS800 example. So you may be right and the first sector _may_ be the boot. Also of the cpm system has a really large bios or the copy is a "snapshot of the system in ram from DDT the length may be way over the top. Simply count of from the start and allow for the boot if there. The beginning of the bios is easy to find as there will be some 17 jumps starting at xx00h. I guess I can just wrap a copy of the CCP and the BDOS and send them to you this weekend. What address do you want to start at? FYI: cpm nominally is supplied as a 8"sssd disk with the MDS800 bios so the manual reads right and it's sysgen'd for 20kb of ram. Other vendors did different things that often for the 5.25" floppy case were all over the map. No matter what copy you use, you have to rewrite the bios as likely it does not match your IO or disks. Allison > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 15:27:38 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <990527161230.214000ef@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: > According to my DR "CP/M 2 Alteration Guide", track 0 sector 1 > is the cold start loader (bootstrap). Track 0 Sectors 2-17 are the CCP. > Track 0 Sectors 18-26 and Track 1 Sectors 1-19 are the BDOS. And > Track 1 Sectors 20-26 are the BIOS. This is for a plain-vanilla > 8" SSSD installation, of course. What the manual doesn't say (besides alot) is that the boot was specific to the MDS800 implmentation and is optional! Afterall if you can read the disk why read a boot unless the original rom boot was to read ISIS OS! If your rom(eprom) can read the read teh boot device it can also load cpm and do the coldboot work. That makes both the boot sector and parts of coldboot routine optional. For example one of my systems has CPM (CCP and BDOS) in Rom and the boot rom copis the bios to the right address then ccp and BDOS below it and jumps to the warm boot address as the cold boot is already done by then. There doesn't have to be anything more than a formatted black floppy in the drive (CCP logs the current drive, so something has to be there). Thats an example of what the book doesn't tell you. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 15:37:35 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <199905272013.NAA15907@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: > I guess the issue is that the additional space is the BIOS and > since I'll be replacing this with my own BIOS, and I write efficient > code, I don't have to worry about it until I run out of space? > Dwight > ???HUH??? Figure this if your running a SSSD 8" to be compatable with media out there the system has two tracks to use for the CCP, BDOS and bios. Thats 52 sectors! The first sector DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE BOOT. The FIRST 1600h bytes are ccpand bdos (44 sectors). The bios can be up to 8 sectors in length but the buffers can be placed on the end so they dont have to be stored in the disk (uninitialized ram). Infact the system can be in rom and copied to ram and mapped out. The disk if your going to read SSSD disks must use the skew of 6, 2 tracks reserved with 63 directoriy entries(may be different , from memory). Allison From elvey at hal.com Thu May 27 16:25:02 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199905272125.OAA15927@civic.hal.com> allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > I guess the issue is that the additional space is the BIOS and > > since I'll be replacing this with my own BIOS, and I write efficient > > code, I don't have to worry about it until I run out of space? > > Dwight > > > ???HUH??? Figure this if your running a SSSD 8" to be compatable with > media out there the system has two tracks to use for the CCP, BDOS and > bios. Thats 52 sectors! > > The first sector DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE BOOT. Hi It does on my system unless I toggle in a loader or have EPROMs to do it. I'd like to not have any EPROMs if I don't need it. The controller automatically loads track 0 sector 1. I start executing at address zero and it boot loads the CPM system. The boot loader then jumps to the start of the CPM and it over writes info at address zero with what it requires there. As far as I know, I am following the examples for a non-MDS800 type system and following exactly what is shown on 6-14/6-15 of the CPM manual that I got from the unofficial site. The mapping shows that the first sector is a cold start loader and the CPM ( CCP ) part doesn't start until the second sector. It would seem that there was additional BOIS info loaded that didn't fit into the 51 sectors. It sounds like I can ignore this because I'll be replacing it anyway. Let me say, no EPROM's, boots from disk. Dwight From af-list at lafleur.wfi-inc.com Thu May 27 16:25:16 1999 From: af-list at lafleur.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Yet another freebie Message-ID: More junk in the spring-cleaning frenzy here, to a good home: A Wyse50/350 keyboard, P/N: 840059-01 Aaron From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu May 27 17:08:45 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bootstrapping CPM In-Reply-To: <199905272125.OAA15927@civic.hal.com> References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990527145105.03d59620@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 02:25 PM 5/27/99 -0700, Dwight wrote: > ... The controller automatically loads track 0 sector 1. Presumably the controller accomplishes this with and EPROM of some sort :-) Some controllers like the 16FDC have a monitor in ROM that is standalone. Anyway, you needn't worry because you are almost there. >I start executing at address zero and it boot loads the >CPM system. When you say "I" here, do you mean the controller or your code? The core of a disk loader is very simple (note i've lost how many sectors the standard 8" 3740 format disk had on it (it was twenty something) I'm using 'n' as a place holder) Set track to 0 read track copy sectors 1 - n to 0xE000 set track to 1 read track copy sectors 0 - n to the next block of memory past (0xE000+(n-1)*128) jump to 0xE000 That was it! The system was booted. Now there are some variables, if your bios was larger then the space allocated by default you could "move" CPM (MOVCPM) to start on a different address other than E000, this would affect your transient program area (TPA) available for programs (and note that Turbo PASCAL programs couldn't run if they had been compiled on a system with a larger TPA!) Also some BIOSes (like mine) coded the disk geometry into the boot block so that a single boot program would boot multiple disk types. I had an 8 bit value that encoded drive size, # of sides, dd/sd, and "pertec" style seeking. Other BIOSes actually wrote different boot blocks depending on the disk they were written on. --Chuck From donm at cts.com Thu May 27 17:47:06 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8018E5983@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 1999, Arlen Michaels wrote: > I'm not sure if it's the same kind of Selectric terminal, but about 20 years > ago when I was trying to find an alternative to a Teletype to connect to my > homebrew S-100 system, I acquired a used Selectric with a set of solenoids > built inside its base to activate the printing mechanism. Maybe this is the > model you remember. > > IBM had to make the base deeper to accommodate the extra actuating > solenoids, so unless you placed the Selectric into a cutout or well it would > sit too high above the desk for comfortable working. You'd energize > solenoids in various zany combinations to tilt the type-ball correctly for > each character. Electrical interface was through a 50-pin rectangular AMP > connector at the rear, and I believe the solenoids needed 48 vdc. It > weighed a ton. > > Actually, the biggest challenge in interfacing this thing to a computer was > to sort out how to read one particular status signal from one of the > microswitch contacts in the print mechanism, so your computer could start > sending the next character at just the right moment before the mechanical > cycle completely finished. Else your software had to pause a few Didn't you also have to feed it EBCDIC instead of ASCII in order for it to 'understand' what you wanted printed? - don > milliseconds between characters, but there was a hidden menace awaiting if > you took this easy way and just timed out for each character to finish. The > starting-and-stopping would soon wear out the clutch mechanism. With the > high duty cycle of computer printing (rather than manual typing) you would > eventually put too much strain on the mechanism and wear it out if you > didn't poll to respond to that "ready" signal. Many people don't realize > the Selectrics were *completely* mechanical. No electronics, just complex > and elegant mechanics. A nightmare :-) > > I gave mine away years ago. If I recall correctly it was a "Model 735 i/o > Selectric". Maybe that name will help you track one down. I bought mine > surplus from an outfit in England back in '77, but there were companies > selling similar models in the USA too. They ran magazine ads in the early > years of Byte and Kilobaud. There were some articles in Radio-Electronics > (of Mark-8 computer project fame) describing a Selectric interface. > > Arlen > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Oliver [SMTP:go@ao.com] > > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 4:35 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? > > > > Back in the days before "glass" consoles, computers often (if > > they had them) used typewriter devices as console input and > > output stations. Many minicomputers used Teletypes, but Control > > Data used (believe it or not) IBM Selectric typewriters. > > > > > -- > Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 18:19:44 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <199905272319.AA05612@world.std.com> <> The first sector DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE BOOT. < from "Marvin" at May 26, 99 05:16:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2027 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/b3eb65a8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 16:25:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: <001e01bea7d7$a289ce20$0100c0a8@fuj03> from "Richard Erlacher" at May 26, 99 06:26:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 952 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/fb59a82a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 16:28:18 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: non-SCSI disks on a SCSI disk interface (was Re: Space, the next frontier) In-Reply-To: <199905270139.SAA75694@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at May 26, 99 06:39:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/a223ea43/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 16:52:18 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: pdp11/45 In-Reply-To: from "Jacob Ritorto" at May 27, 99 04:48:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4042 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990527/af97b584/attachment.ksh From Innfogra at aol.com Thu May 27 18:38:44 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? Message-ID: <9037a7a4.247f3184@aol.com> I called them printing terminals. They had a keyboard, a printer and usually a serial interface. Besides IBM, Xerox had the 1610 Printing terminals based on the 630 printer mechanism. There was one based on the NEC spinwriter printer. GTE had the Termnet series of printing terminals (300 & 2120s) and of course the venerableTI Omni 7XX series of thermal printing terminals. If you find one of these I may have manuals. Paxton From donm at cts.com Thu May 27 18:48:16 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <199905272125.OAA15927@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > It does on my system unless I toggle in a loader or have > EPROMs to do it. I'd like to not have any EPROMs if I don't > need it. The controller automatically loads track 0 sector 1. > I start executing at address zero and it boot loads the > CPM system. The boot loader then jumps to the start of > the CPM and it over writes info at address zero with what > it requires there. As far as I know, I am following the examples > for a non-MDS800 type system and following exactly what is > shown on 6-14/6-15 of the CPM manual that I got from the > unofficial site. The mapping shows that the first sector > is a cold start loader and the CPM ( CCP ) part doesn't start until > the second sector. > It would seem that there was additional BOIS info loaded that > didn't fit into the 51 sectors. It sounds like I can ignore > this because I'll be replacing it anyway. > Let me say, no EPROM's, boots from disk. Dwight, in looking at an Imsai disk that I have here - which has Imsai CP/M v1.33 on it - the BIOS begins at sector 19 and ends on 24. Presumably, you are working with v2.2 so Tim's quote from the DRI guide certainly follows as 2.2 is most certainly larger than the prior versions. The directory is skewed and the first file recorded is interleaved with it. - don From edick at idcomm.com Thu May 27 19:00:46 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <002701bea89d$2375b100$0100c0a8@fuj03> If you're writing your own, it might be well to keep in mind that the BIOS used in several late-generation CP/M systems used device drivers which could be swapped in and out of PROM. This seems like a decent idea in view of the way in which some compilers handled their TPA usage. You could end up with a pretty big BIOS if you make it any sort of fancy at all , and that could mean you can't run some compiled programs. California Computer Systems (CCS) had a pretty nice boot process in which they loaded a skeletal BIOS in a 32K CP/M, since 32K was the smallest memory in which they claimed they could run. It wrote that to the boot blocks, then, under the control of that skeletal system, they loaded a "full-size" (you get to define that!) CP/M and transfer control to it. It's pretty solid and makes the preparation of a bootable disk a straightforward if not a quick process. IIRC, the XEROX 820 used a swapped-in BIOS which lived in PROM and was mapped into the TPA during file transfers, or something on that order. If your machine can handle that, it saves on BIOS size, especially tables, etc, and, generally speaking, if the READ operations from the TPA are from temprorarily mapped-in PROMs, you can overwrite the TPA in the event you're loading overlays, with complete impunity. That way your blocking/deblocking buffer space can still reside in high memory. Just a thought . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 3:25 PM Subject: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM >allisonp@world.std.com wrote: >> > I guess the issue is that the additional space is the BIOS and >> > since I'll be replacing this with my own BIOS, and I write efficient >> > code, I don't have to worry about it until I run out of space? >> > Dwight >> > >> ???HUH??? Figure this if your running a SSSD 8" to be compatable with >> media out there the system has two tracks to use for the CCP, BDOS and >> bios. Thats 52 sectors! >> >> The first sector DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE BOOT. > >Hi > It does on my system unless I toggle in a loader or have >EPROMs to do it. I'd like to not have any EPROMs if I don't >need it. The controller automatically loads track 0 sector 1. >I start executing at address zero and it boot loads the >CPM system. The boot loader then jumps to the start of >the CPM and it over writes info at address zero with what >it requires there. As far as I know, I am following the examples >for a non-MDS800 type system and following exactly what is >shown on 6-14/6-15 of the CPM manual that I got from the >unofficial site. The mapping shows that the first sector >is a cold start loader and the CPM ( CCP ) part doesn't start until >the second sector. > It would seem that there was additional BOIS info loaded that >didn't fit into the 51 sectors. It sounds like I can ignore >this because I'll be replacing it anyway. > Let me say, no EPROM's, boots from disk. >Dwight > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu May 27 19:20:57 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <9037a7a4.247f3184@aol.com> from "Innfogra@aol.com" at May 27, 99 07:38:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990528/a97efc4f/attachment.ksh From paul at paul.dragontear.org Thu May 27 21:23:38 1999 From: paul at paul.dragontear.org (paul yaskowski) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 questions Message-ID: <19990527222337.A30519@paul.dragontear.org> Hello, I recently acquired a VAXstation 3100 from a local pharmaceutical company that was trashing it. Being a sucker for old computers, and having always been intrigued by VMS, i've messed around with it. I know incredibly little about VMS, and have never encountered it before yesterday, but what I have been able to figure out is that it's running VAX/VMS 5.4, it has 16Mb of RAM, (2) 212Mb hard drives, and an RX23 disk drive. Does anyone have any references or links that would be helpful in setting this thing up? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. -paul -- paul@paul.dragontear.org [a paradigm of a paramount failure] From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu May 27 21:46:50 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 questions In-Reply-To: <19990527222337.A30519@paul.dragontear.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990527194650.00955a40@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 22:23 27-05-1999 -0400, you wrote: > I know incredibly little about VMS, and have never encountered it >before yesterday, but what I have been able to figure out is that it's >running VAX/VMS 5.4, it has 16Mb of RAM, (2) 212Mb hard drives, and an >RX23 disk drive. Does anyone have any references or links that would >be helpful in setting this thing up? Any information would be greatly >appreciated. 5.4 is pretty old. The current version is 7.x. The VS3100's will also run Ultrix (DEC's awful Unix port) and NetBSD (A much better choice, IMO). Info on the hardware can be found at: http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html Info on NetBSD can be had from www.netbsd.org Best of luck. Those are nice little machines. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From allisonp at world.std.com Thu May 27 21:54:11 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <199905280254.AA28398@world.std.com> So... having found some time to have a look at these beasties, I find that overall I'm still as puzzled as before. And one of these cases where documentation can be TOO old... My one vintage HP catalog predates these CPUs by a couple of years. The catalog only lists the HP2116. I wandered through the card cages in both machines (fairly diverse configurations) and the designations look like this: Machine 1 Front card cage Rear card cage DCPC 13037 Intf Memory Protect Grd True In/Out M.E.M. Grd True In/Out 64k HSM 12747H Microcircuit 64k HSM 12747H BACI 12966A 64k HSM 12747H 7970 Mag Tape 2 64k HSM 12747H 7970 Mag Tape 1 64k HSM 12747H Line Printer 64k HSM 12747H Time Base Gen Mem Contr 2102E F.E.M. Main Logic? (under chassis) Machine 2 Front card cage Rear card cage DCPC Jumper Memory Protect I/O Buffer M.E.M. 8 Chan Mux Standard Memories Bus I/O (256k memory) 1 Standard Memories 2 (256k memory) Disc Intf 2 256kw 12749H Disc Intf 1 256kw 12749H 3 Mem Contr 2102E 4 BACI 12966H 12821A Disc Intf Time Base Gen F.E.M. Main Logic? (under chassis) (pictures are on the MiniComputers page at The Computer Garage) Some of the cards are fairly obvious as to function, (memory, time base gen, etc...) but some of the designations are a bit vague, and in any case I still need to find docs on this critter and the cards. The cards designated as 1,2,3, & 4 are all identical, and look like multi-channel serial I/O cards. The only obvious designation are etched on the card and read 5180-1953 and 668298. They are HP cards... Any information on these critters would be greatly appreciated! After the usual pre-launch checks, all of the (apparently) optional cards were removed from the card cages and the units were powered up. Curiously, they both act identically in that they seem to have some front panel function, but the CPUs seem to be hung pretty hard. No odd sounds or loss of magic smoke, so an initial suspicion is a configuration error common to both units. The card cages only have specific card notations on a couple of slots, so there is the obvious question of proper card positioning. (no idea if the cages are a parallel bus or not) Help??? Thanks; -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu May 27 22:44:55 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 questions In-Reply-To: <19990527222337.A30519@paul.dragontear.org> from "paul yaskowski" at May 27, 1999 10:23:38 PM Message-ID: <199905280344.VAA17576@calico.litterbox.com> > > Hello, > > I recently acquired a VAXstation 3100 from a local pharmaceutical > company that was trashing it. Being a sucker for old computers, and > having always been intrigued by VMS, i've messed around with it. > > I know incredibly little about VMS, and have never encountered it > before yesterday, but what I have been able to figure out is that it's > running VAX/VMS 5.4, it has 16Mb of RAM, (2) 212Mb hard drives, and an > RX23 disk drive. Does anyone have any references or links that would > be helpful in setting this thing up? Any information would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > -paul > > -- > paul@paul.dragontear.org [a paradigm of a paramount failure] > Ooo. Nice machine, especially for free. One source of good info (and links) is www.montagar.com. They're the place to go to get a hobbiest licence for VMS and a bunch of layered products (applications, usually) and they also have links to a lot of good info sites. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mbg at world.std.com Thu May 27 22:56:37 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. Message-ID: <199905280356.AA22901@world.std.com> >> a PC. Another technique I have used when I didn't have immediate access >> to a wiping program (and *think* it is okay although not as good as >> doing a wipedisk) is to overwrite the offending file with another >> larger one, i.e. "copy [bigfile.ext] [offending file.ext]" and of >> course, then deleting the > >This may not work. On RT11 (I think) it certainly won't work. Right... >What some OS's do is create the new file in a suitable (contiguous) free >area on the disk and then mark the existing file as unused space. RT11 >does this because all files have to be contiguous on that OS. Good explanation... >Of course then the original (deleted) data is still on the disk. Yep... >Deleting files and then compressing an RT11 disk should be OK unless the >files are at the end of the disk. Compressing and then creating a large >file (large enough to overwrite the rest of the disk) should be safe. Unfortunately not... the only way to guarantee it is if there are LOTS of files on the disk, and the file deleted existed at a point in the directory less than the total size of all the following files. Too much to have to check before you are sure it is gone... Teh creation of the large file simple creates a directory entry... the actual disk surface defined by the new entry is not touched, so the data could still be there, hidden inside the larger file. Now if you did something to that file to overwrite it's contents, then it would be gone. It's been a while since I had to do this, and I had a program to do it for me anyway... but on a stock RT-11, you might be able to mount the file as a logical device, then FORMAT or INIT it, or do a COPY/DEV to it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From edick at idcomm.com Fri May 28 00:07:33 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Bringing up a CPM Message-ID: <001501bea8c7$feedace0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Yes, '81 was pretty late . . . CP/M-86 came out then, as did PC-DOS. Within a few years, nobody wanted to be limited by the same systems they coveted only a few years earlier. By '81, the Apple][ could be equipped with a Z80 board, a "real" FDC (Sorrento Valley Associates ?) an 80x24 display, and a hard disk if you could afford it. I recently sold the prototype of the original Apple HDC I made up in the spring of '81 together with my first ST-506. Those were the days . . . Today I can still run CP/M but at an effective clock rate of 83MHz on my notebook . . . designing hardware involves thousands of lines of HDL, weeks in front of a simulation, and when it's done, I can't even hook up an instrument small and fast enough to inspect it because even our government can't afford one. One has to design circuits with 25% overhead so they can be inspected. Oh, well . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 8:54 PM Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM > >It was late generation in 1981! I started doing it then. CPM had a formal >product called CP/M+ (CP/M3.0) to extend that idea. > > >Actualy it was 20k for cpm2.2, as it was distributed as a 20k system that >you would run movcpm on to get the xxK version you wanted. > ><(you get to define that!) CP/M and transfer control to it. It's pretty > >Yes and they were doing it a long time back, Compupro too. Kaypro was one >of the few "boxed" system that had the rom mapped to get a large TPA. > > >Classic. > > >An IMSAI can neither handle that nor not handle that. The basic design >had no rom! To do that you need a prom card with a little bit of hardware >to map it with an IO port. > >The key here is to get a working system in whatever space... Why, it's the >development platfrom for itself. Once you have it running and can poke and >understand it the improvements will come. > >Allison > > From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri May 28 01:53:55 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > Don't forget the (totally crazy) ICL Termiprinters. There were at least 4 > models : > > These were _strange_ machines. The printing mechanism was that of a > band-type line printer. There was a rubber belt that ran round a pulley > at each side of the machine Slotted into this belt were metal fingers > with the characters on them. And there was a hammer bank to press the > character fingers onto the ribbon/paper. Sounds like a re-badged Terminet to me. I had three GE Terminets at one time, two ran and one for parts. I had the ASR version with the twin cassette ('DataSette') box that functioned like a punch/reader. FWIW, I have the complete manual sets for these machines, service, operation, and reference. They were a lot of fun and I wish I had kept one. They were capable of 300 baud upper and lower case ASCII, and made the neatest 'rack-rack-rack' sound as the hammers progressed across the paper. One could remove and replace the type fingers (which travelled in the rubber belt) to get different fonts. I used them for several years back in the late 70's BBS days, before I finally got to experience the luxury of an old decrepit Lear ADM-3... woo-hoo! no more meter-deep scrolls of paper all over the room at the end of the night! No more noise at three AM! No more ribbon running dry at the most critically inoportune moment.... Them's was the Days Cheers John From svs at ropnet.ru Fri May 28 06:17:08 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <374C8EF2.1A400433@rain.org>; from Marvin on Wed, May 26, 1999 at 05:16:50PM -0700 References: <199905262322.AA27985@world.std.com> <374C8EF2.1A400433@rain.org> Message-ID: <19990528151708.18210@firepower> On Wed, May 26, 1999 at 05:16:50PM -0700, Marvin wrote: > I have heard that it is possible to recover data from the HD even after > doing a wipedisk by removing the platters and then analyzing the platters > (urban legend?) No. . -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From allisonp at world.std.com Fri May 28 07:24:18 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <199905280356.AA22901@world.std.com> Message-ID: > file as a logical device, then FORMAT or INIT it, or do a COPY/DEV > to it... Use PIP to do a absolute block addressed copy. I think it's :n or :I and your can then move known clear blocks to anywhere on the disk. I've used that to create files that were readable under CPM without a utility to do that. If you have to do that alot under RT-11 make up a disk with files that contain nothingg (fresh disk) but use the entire surface and then image copy it. Me I just format (LLF) after a bulk erase on the s100 crate. If memory serve it's analogous of the DD or useding a raw block device under unix. Allison From evilnet_genesis at hotmail.com Fri May 28 14:38:30 1999 From: evilnet_genesis at hotmail.com (John Doe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 L40 Power Supply Message-ID: <19990528123847.49335.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi, I’ve got a rather small problem with my old PS/2 laptop. I don’t know which power supply I have to use with it. Can somebody tell me (exactly) which power supply I have to use (voltage, needed current,…). Can I use the 5-12 V /250 W switching power supplies from PC’s? Is there any fuse or surge protection built in the L40, protecting the motherboard from too high voltage? I’ve tried it with an unstabilized 14 V transformator, and it worked for a short time, then the thermo-fuse in the transformator switched off. The L40 got two ways powering it, through the battery slot (three pins, +, -, ?) and/or using the power supply adapter. Now I need to know which of these two possibilites should I use when I have not got any batteries or accus, and need an stationary power supply which has an clear, stabilized voltage, which is the easier way? These are the specs of the machine: Machine: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX Proc.: i386DX @ 20 Mhz RAM: 2 Mb(the two blue memory slots are still free) HDD: 60 Mb FDD: 3,5” 1.44 Mb Mail all hints and/or advices to evilnet_genesis@yahoo.com or evilnet_genesis@hotmail.com. If nobody can’t help me then please give me some links or adresses, where I can find informations. Thank you! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From edick at idcomm.com Fri May 28 08:30:04 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Multibus-I Users ?? Message-ID: <001701bea90e$324e9680$0100c0a8@fuj03> Are there any users of the old Multibus-I out there? I'm having difficulty identifying a board that is so "busy" that there was no room on which to put an identifier in the silkscreen. It's a FD/HD controller with a '186 and an 8042 on it. Sound familiar? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 11:16 PM Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM >Yes, '81 was pretty late . . . CP/M-86 came out then, as did PC-DOS. >Within a few years, nobody wanted to be limited by the same systems they >coveted only a few years earlier. By '81, the Apple][ could be equipped >with a Z80 board, a "real" FDC (Sorrento Valley Associates ?) an 80x24 >display, and a hard disk if you could afford it. I recently sold the >prototype of the original Apple HDC I made up in the spring of '81 together >with my first ST-506. > >Those were the days . . . > >Today I can still run CP/M but at an effective clock rate of 83MHz on my >notebook . . . designing hardware involves thousands of lines of HDL, weeks >in front of a simulation, and when it's done, I can't even hook up an >instrument small and fast enough to inspect it because even our government >can't afford one. One has to design circuits with 25% overhead so they can >be inspected. Oh, well . . . > >Dick >-----Original Message----- >From: Allison J Parent >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 8:54 PM >Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM > > >>>coul >> >>It was late generation in 1981! I started doing it then. CPM had a formal >>product called CP/M+ (CP/M3.0) to extend that idea. >> >>>memor >>> >>Actualy it was 20k for cpm2.2, as it was distributed as a 20k system that >>you would run movcpm on to get the xxK version you wanted. >> >>><(you get to define that!) CP/M and transfer control to it. It's pretty >>>> >>Yes and they were doing it a long time back, Compupro too. Kaypro was one >>of the few "boxed" system that had the rom mapped to get a large TPA. >> >>>> >>Classic. >> >>etc >>>>blocking/deblockin >>> >>An IMSAI can neither handle that nor not handle that. The basic design >>had no rom! To do that you need a prom card with a little bit of hardware >>to map it with an IO port. >> >>The key here is to get a working system in whatever space... Why, it's the >>development platfrom for itself. Once you have it running and can poke and >>understand it the improvements will come. >> >>Allison >> >> > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri May 28 09:37:08 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: Old printers was Re: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990528093708.2797c2b4@intellistar.net> At 11:53 PM 5/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 28 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > >> Don't forget the (totally crazy) ICL Termiprinters. There were at least 4 >> models : >> >> These were _strange_ machines. The printing mechanism was that of a >> band-type line printer. There was a rubber belt that ran round a pulley >> at each side of the machine Slotted into this belt were metal fingers >> with the characters on them. And there was a hammer bank to press the >> character fingers onto the ribbon/paper. > > > Sounds like a re-badged Terminet to me. I had three GE Terminets >at one time, two ran and one for parts. I had the ASR version with >the twin cassette ('DataSette') box that functioned like a punch/reader. > > FWIW, I have the complete manual sets for these machines, service, >operation, and reference. > > They were a lot of fun and I wish I had kept one. They were >capable of 300 baud upper and lower case ASCII, and made the neatest >'rack-rack-rack' sound as the hammers progressed across the paper. >One could remove and replace the type fingers (which travelled in >the rubber belt) to get different fonts. That all sounds EXACTLY like the printers that Burroughs had when I worked there in the mid '70s. We called them ODEC printers because they were made by Ocean Data Electronics Corp. If memory serves they had 100, 200 and 300 LPM models. They could be configured as 64, 96 or 128 character models by changing the slugs on the band and changing a board inside the printers. You could also change the font type and size but since most of our work was in banks they all used one standard set. They were notorious for throwing slugs off the belts. When they did, all the characters following that one would be off by one until the belt came back the the beginning of the character set and resynced itself. When it got to the missing slug, it would lose sync again. Boy, I've replaced a zillion of the character slugs. Since the Burroughs machines were ASCII and the printers were EBCIC, all the ones that we used had a box hung on the side of the printer that converted one code to the other. > > I used them for several years back in the late 70's BBS days, >before I finally got to experience the luxury of an old decrepit >Lear ADM-3... woo-hoo! no more meter-deep scrolls of paper all over >the room at the end of the night! No more noise at three AM! No more >ribbon running dry at the most critically inoportune moment.... No more knocking the printer off line every time someone in the building caused a static spark. Joe From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri May 28 09:03:20 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. Message-ID: <990528100320.214001ce@trailing-edge.com> >> file as a logical device, then FORMAT or INIT it, or do a COPY/DEV >> to it... > >Use PIP to do a absolute block addressed copy. I think it's :n or :I >and your can then move known clear blocks to anywhere on the disk. I think you're talking about RT-11, Allison, but I may be wrong because the utility name you specify and the options you're talking about make no sense under RT-11. Are you maybe talking about some other OS? Under RT-11, it's not PIP, it's DUP, and the option is /G:n. The CCL equivalent is COPY/FILE/DEVICE/START:n. >If you have to do that alot under RT-11 make up a disk with files that >contain nothingg (fresh disk) but use the entire surface and then image >copy it. Or, even easier, just do an FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY. To be really thorough, do a FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY/PATT:7777 to write 12 different patterns over the disk. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From emu at ecubics.com Fri May 28 10:19:24 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:19 2005 Subject: "default" DHV11 CSR? Message-ID: <03a101bea91d$7bc47190$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Hi Chuck, Check the config file first, if your kernel looks for a DHV11 anyway ... cheers, emanuel -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 10:58 AM Subject: "default" DHV11 CSR? >Does anyone know the "default" CSR for the first DHV-11? (8x serial mux) >I'm trying to get one recognized in my uVax III with NetBSD and it's not >seeing it. >--Chuck > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri May 28 10:08:24 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Multibus-I Users ?? In-Reply-To: <001701bea90e$324e9680$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990528100824.0b77b146@intellistar.net> Dick, I still play around with Multi-Bus. I'll see if I can find anything like that in my catalogs. Joe At 07:30 AM 5/28/99 -0600, you wrote: >Are there any users of the old Multibus-I out there? I'm having difficulty >identifying a board that is so "busy" that there was no room on which to put >an identifier in the silkscreen. It's a FD/HD controller with a '186 and an >8042 on it. Sound familiar? > >Dick > >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Erlacher >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 11:16 PM >Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM > > >>Yes, '81 was pretty late . . . CP/M-86 came out then, as did PC-DOS. >>Within a few years, nobody wanted to be limited by the same systems they >>coveted only a few years earlier. By '81, the Apple][ could be equipped >>with a Z80 board, a "real" FDC (Sorrento Valley Associates ?) an 80x24 >>display, and a hard disk if you could afford it. I recently sold the >>prototype of the original Apple HDC I made up in the spring of '81 together >>with my first ST-506. >> >>Those were the days . . . >> >>Today I can still run CP/M but at an effective clock rate of 83MHz on my >>notebook . . . designing hardware involves thousands of lines of HDL, weeks >>in front of a simulation, and when it's done, I can't even hook up an >>instrument small and fast enough to inspect it because even our government >>can't afford one. One has to design circuits with 25% overhead so they can >>be inspected. Oh, well . . . >> >>Dick >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Allison J Parent >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >>Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 8:54 PM >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM >> >> >>>BIOS >>>>coul >>> >>>It was late generation in 1981! I started doing it then. CPM had a >formal >>>product called CP/M+ (CP/M3.0) to extend that idea. >>> >>>>>>memor >>>>> >>>Actualy it was 20k for cpm2.2, as it was distributed as a 20k system that >>>you would run movcpm on to get the xxK version you wanted. >>> >>>"full-size" >>><(you get to define that!) CP/M and transfer control to it. It's pretty >>>no >>>>> >>>Yes and they were doing it a long time back, Compupro too. Kaypro was one >>>of the few "boxed" system that had the rom mapped to get a large TPA. >>> >>>>>If >>> >>>Classic. >>> >>>>etc >>>>>you'r >>>>blocking/deblockin >>>>> >>>An IMSAI can neither handle that nor not handle that. The basic design >>>had no rom! To do that you need a prom card with a little bit of hardware >>>to map it with an IO port. >>> >>>The key here is to get a working system in whatever space... Why, it's the >>>development platfrom for itself. Once you have it running and can poke >and >>>understand it the improvements will come. >>> >>>Allison >>> >>> >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri May 28 10:11:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Intel MultiBus 8086/05A card Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990528101147.46ef5468@intellistar.net> I found this card in a pile of scrap boards. The IC on the top right corner is broken. Can anyone tell me what it's supposed to be? It's marked U 16 and is a 16 pin SSI DIP. Does anyone have any docs for this card? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri May 28 10:16:59 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Identify this MultiBus card Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990528101659.46ef1dbc@intellistar.net> Another MultiBus card that was found in the trash. It was made by "MicroBar Systems Inc" and is marked "Master/Slave M24 I16 D16 V02NBV". It has a small (~2 x 4") daughter board attached to it that says Intel and contains a 82C55A-2. Most of the ICs seem to be dated 1985. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri May 28 11:25:58 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Multibus-I Users ?? In-Reply-To: <001701bea90e$324e9680$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990528112558.222f3986@intellistar.net> Dick, I don't have any catalogs that show the single board computers but I found something in the '85 Intel product guide. It lists an iSBC 186/03 that has an 80186 and that they classify as both a CPU card and Mass Storage Controller. There is only a one line description for each so I don't know if it has 8042 or not. Here's the info that the CPU section gives: CPU = 80186, RAM = 0 to 64K EPROM or EEPROM = 0-512K, iSBX expansion connectors = 2, MultiMode Expansion = iSBC 341, Operating System Software = iRMX. Here's what the mass storage section says: No. of boards = 1, Interface Supported ="SCSI-single host environment (transfer rate 1.2 Mbyte/sec asynchrous)", No. of drives supported = "single targer environment", S/W Support = RMX 86. There is also a chart showing the year of introduction and relatve performance. It was introduced in 1984 and it's performace is a 5. Joe At 07:30 AM 5/28/99 -0600, you wrote: >Are there any users of the old Multibus-I out there? I'm having difficulty >identifying a board that is so "busy" that there was no room on which to put >an identifier in the silkscreen. It's a FD/HD controller with a '186 and an >8042 on it. Sound familiar? > >Dick > >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard Erlacher >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 11:16 PM >Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM > > >>Yes, '81 was pretty late . . . CP/M-86 came out then, as did PC-DOS. >>Within a few years, nobody wanted to be limited by the same systems they >>coveted only a few years earlier. By '81, the Apple][ could be equipped >>with a Z80 board, a "real" FDC (Sorrento Valley Associates ?) an 80x24 >>display, and a hard disk if you could afford it. I recently sold the >>prototype of the original Apple HDC I made up in the spring of '81 together >>with my first ST-506. >> >>Those were the days . . . >> >>Today I can still run CP/M but at an effective clock rate of 83MHz on my >>notebook . . . designing hardware involves thousands of lines of HDL, weeks >>in front of a simulation, and when it's done, I can't even hook up an >>instrument small and fast enough to inspect it because even our government >>can't afford one. One has to design circuits with 25% overhead so they can >>be inspected. Oh, well . . . >> >>Dick >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Allison J Parent >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >>Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 8:54 PM >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM >> >> >>>BIOS >>>>coul >>> >>>It was late generation in 1981! I started doing it then. CPM had a >formal >>>product called CP/M+ (CP/M3.0) to extend that idea. >>> >>>>>>memor >>>>> >>>Actualy it was 20k for cpm2.2, as it was distributed as a 20k system that >>>you would run movcpm on to get the xxK version you wanted. >>> >>>"full-size" >>><(you get to define that!) CP/M and transfer control to it. It's pretty >>>no >>>>> >>>Yes and they were doing it a long time back, Compupro too. Kaypro was one >>>of the few "boxed" system that had the rom mapped to get a large TPA. >>> >>>>>If >>> >>>Classic. >>> >>>>etc >>>>>you'r >>>>blocking/deblockin >>>>> >>>An IMSAI can neither handle that nor not handle that. The basic design >>>had no rom! To do that you need a prom card with a little bit of hardware >>>to map it with an IO port. >>> >>>The key here is to get a working system in whatever space... Why, it's the >>>development platfrom for itself. Once you have it running and can poke >and >>>understand it the improvements will come. >>> >>>Allison >>> >>> >> > > From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Fri May 28 10:37:02 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8018E5986@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [SMTP:donm@cts.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 1999 6:47 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: What's a "computer console" selectric called? > > On Thu, 27 May 1999, Arlen Michaels wrote: > > > Actually, the biggest challenge in interfacing this thing to a computer > was > > to sort out how to read one particular status signal from one of the > > microswitch contacts in the print mechanism, so your computer could > start > > sending the next character at just the right moment before the > mechanical > > cycle completely finished. Else your software had to pause a few > > Didn't you also have to feed it EBCDIC instead of ASCII in order for it to > 'understand' what you wanted printed? > > - don > I don't think the Model 735 Selectric could even handle EBCDIC directly. I seem to recall the electrical interface was defined as tilt-and-rotate signal names. My Selectric terminal certainly didn't do any translation by itself from character-codes to solenoid signals, at least not from ASCII. I had to do translation myself before sending to the printer. One way would have been with hardware between the computer and the Selectric, eg- using an eprom to translate each ASCII code into the correct combination of Selectric tilt-and-rotate signals. My lazier way was to simply put a look-up table in my driver code, to intercept each ASCII character enroute to the printer and translate it into the appropriate pattern of solenoid signals first. Imagine if you had to drive a dot-matrix print head with raw pin-driver signals instead of the printer hardware figuring it out for you : same kind of problem. Some vendors did indeed supply an interface that took ASCII from the computer and sent the necessary tilt-and-rotate signals out to the Selectric. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com Nortel Networks, Ottawa, Canada From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri May 28 11:04:47 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Identify this MultiBus card In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990528101659.46ef1dbc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990528090353.03c78b50@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> The 2 x 4" daughter card sounds like a in iSBX parallel i/o card. --Chuck At 10:16 AM 5/28/99 +0000, you wrote: >Another MultiBus card that was found in the trash. It was made by >"MicroBar Systems Inc" and is marked "Master/Slave M24 I16 D16 V02NBV". It >has a small (~2 x 4") daughter board attached to it that says Intel and >contains a 82C55A-2. Most of the ICs seem to be dated 1985. > > Joe > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri May 28 11:13:11 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: "default" DHV11 CSR? In-Reply-To: <03a101bea91d$7bc47190$5d01a8c0@p2350.ecubuero> Message-ID: <4.1.19990528091242.03c80310@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 09:19 AM 5/28/99 -0600, you wrote: >Check the config file first, if your kernel looks for a DHV11 anyway ... Good point, I thought it was compiled into the generic kernel but you never can tell... --Chuck From allisonp at world.std.com Fri May 28 11:44:45 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <990528100320.214001ce@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: > I think you're talking about RT-11, Allison, but I may be wrong because > the utility name you specify and the options you're talking about make > no sense under RT-11. Are you maybe talking about some other OS? > > Under RT-11, it's not PIP, it's DUP, and the option is /G:n. > The CCL equivalent is COPY/FILE/DEVICE/START:n. It is RT but brain fart on the app name it is dup. > Or, even easier, just do an FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY. To be really thorough, > do a FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY/PATT:7777 to write 12 different patterns over > the disk. Forgot that one. ;) Allison From elvey at hal.com Fri May 28 11:58:00 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <001501bea8c7$feedace0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <199905281658.JAA19024@civic.hal.com> Hi Wanted to say thanks to all that have responded. To clear up some things, I'd describe what I have and what I want to do. The IMSAI has an old TTL disk controller ( no micro or controller chips). It is a setup made by Digital Systems. It includes a bus interface card called HB-1 and the controller is called FDC-1. It is an original IMSAI processor. It currently has 48K of 2101 type static RAM ( a lot of RAM chips ). I can make it 64K with other RAM cards that I have but that is not my intent. The disk controller is designed to read Trk0Sec1 on a reset pulse from the S-100 bus. I have written a boot loader and have put it on this sector. I also put a simple serial loader here as well so that I can move data from my PC to the IMSAI and then I can store it on the disk. The controller runs on a bipolar PROM driven state machine. Although I could program it to do other things, that is not my intent. I have used a schematic and made a listing file for the code in the controllers state machine. If anyone has one of these and would like a listing of this, let me know. The reason I did this was to find out how to use the controller to format a disk. It required a track image, similar to the 177x/179x type controllers but was some what modified in that the image doesn't need gap data or crc's. These are generated by the controller. I have had no experience with CPM. I've worked with things like ISIS and MSDOS at low levels but just never got around to dealing with CPM. My next question is, could someone send me an image of a directory that I could use to build my disk? I have info on what it should look like but don't want to completely hand build it. It can have several files names in it and I can modify it after getting my CPM and BIOS up and running. This should be a 2.2 type directory. Also, when doing a MOVCPM, how does this program know how to patch all of the addresses in the code? The reason I ask is that it looks like the image that I down loaded is setup as a 62K CPM. I'd like to make it simple to get it back into the normal 20K position first so that I can work within my current addresses ( yes, I know I can just make a hole in the memory and move some up to the high end ). Dwight From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 28 12:02:13 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Whats a MassPar? Message-ID: Two large chassis (size of old fridge) rolled into the salvage yard near me, labeled MassPar and one of them has 8 big, I think, MFM drives in it. Anybody know what this stuff is, or have interest in it? Its cheap, and looks intact and very good shape. From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri May 28 12:06:53 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: bumped, Sat TRW in SoCal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990528090353.03c78b50@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990528101659.46ef1dbc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: Did something happen to the list, I got bumped about Tuesday and didn't notice until this morning that I wasn't getting any classic list traffic. Saturday morning is the TRW swapmeet in southern California, and while I won't have a space or anything, I do plan to have some things in my car if people are interested. My "aim" is to arrive around 7 and leave by 10, but you know how that goes. 5 eight inch floppy drives top my list of things I won't be bringing back home. I don't think they are fully functional, but they are intact with the circuit boards etc. First offer close to the scrap value of the aluminum chassis can have them. Anything people want from my web page I can bring, plus a few odds and ends. http://www.netwiz.net/~mikeford/MacList.html 2 19" rack mount black metal sliding drawers (one real drawer, one hanging file). Silent 700 terminals, one small one, and one large one with acoustic coupler. Stacking SCSI cases, full height for 5.25 drives. Email me if interested in anything, or it might be gone or not in the car. From spc at armigeron.com Fri May 28 12:11:46 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Whats a MassPar? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at May 28, 99 10:02:13 am Message-ID: <199905281711.NAA22289@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 741 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990528/35f28b61/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Fri May 28 12:16:35 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Multibus-I Users ?? Message-ID: <000a01bea92d$da3ce940$0100c0a8@fuj03> This board is definitely dedicated for disk I/O. It supports 8" and 5.25" floppy drives with a connector for each, and apparently two 5.25" hard disks as well. It uses a WD 1010 chip as did most of the early PC HDC's. The floppies are run with a WD 2797. I'd have concluded that this was NOT an Intel board because of the non-Intel FDC, but the one board identifier I can find says Intel. I've got another '186-based board which uses a '286 as a processor and a '186 as an I/O controller. This one has ethernet, serial I/O, lots of RAM, with "secded" and about 200 IC's on one side plus about a thousand passives and discretes on the other. It's from "Little Machines." Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, May 28, 1999 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Multibus-I Users ?? >Dick, > > I don't have any catalogs that show the single board computers but I >found something in the '85 Intel product guide. It lists an iSBC 186/03 >that has an 80186 and that they classify as both a CPU card and Mass >Storage Controller. There is only a one line description for each so I >don't know if it has 8042 or not. Here's the info that the CPU section >gives: CPU = 80186, RAM = 0 to 64K EPROM or EEPROM = 0-512K, iSBX expansion >connectors = 2, MultiMode Expansion = iSBC 341, Operating System Software = >iRMX. Here's what the mass storage section says: No. of boards = 1, >Interface Supported ="SCSI-single host environment (transfer rate 1.2 >Mbyte/sec asynchrous)", No. of drives supported = "single targer >environment", S/W Support = RMX 86. There is also a chart showing the year >of introduction and relatve performance. It was introduced in 1984 and it's >performace is a 5. > > Joe > >At 07:30 AM 5/28/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Are there any users of the old Multibus-I out there? I'm having difficulty >>identifying a board that is so "busy" that there was no room on which to put >>an identifier in the silkscreen. It's a FD/HD controller with a '186 and an >>8042 on it. Sound familiar? >> >>Dick >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Richard Erlacher >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >>Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 11:16 PM >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM >> >> >>>Yes, '81 was pretty late . . . CP/M-86 came out then, as did PC-DOS. >>>Within a few years, nobody wanted to be limited by the same systems they >>>coveted only a few years earlier. By '81, the Apple][ could be equipped >>>with a Z80 board, a "real" FDC (Sorrento Valley Associates ?) an 80x24 >>>display, and a hard disk if you could afford it. I recently sold the >>>prototype of the original Apple HDC I made up in the spring of '81 together >>>with my first ST-506. >>> >>>Those were the days . . . >>> >>>Today I can still run CP/M but at an effective clock rate of 83MHz on my >>>notebook . . . designing hardware involves thousands of lines of HDL, weeks >>>in front of a simulation, and when it's done, I can't even hook up an >>>instrument small and fast enough to inspect it because even our government >>>can't afford one. One has to design circuits with 25% overhead so they can >>>be inspected. Oh, well . . . >>> >>>Dick >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Allison J Parent >>>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >>> >>>Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 8:54 PM >>>Subject: Re: Re[4]: Bringing up a CPM >>> >>> >>>>>BIOS >>>>>>coul >>>> >>>>It was late generation in 1981! I started doing it then. CPM had a >>formal >>>>product called CP/M+ (CP/M3.0) to extend that idea. >>>> >>>>>>>>>memor >>>>>>> >>>>Actualy it was 20k for cpm2.2, as it was distributed as a 20k system that >>>>you would run movcpm on to get the xxK version you wanted. >>>> >>>>>"full-size" >>>><(you get to define that!) CP/M and transfer control to it. It's pretty >>>>>no >>>>>>> >>>>Yes and they were doing it a long time back, Compupro too. Kaypro was one >>>>of the few "boxed" system that had the rom mapped to get a large TPA. >>>> >>>>>>>>If >>>> >>>>Classic. >>>> >>>>>>etc >>>>>>>>you'r >>>>>>blocking/deblockin >>>>>>> >>>>An IMSAI can neither handle that nor not handle that. The basic design >>>>had no rom! To do that you need a prom card with a little bit of hardware >>>>to map it with an IO port. >>>> >>>>The key here is to get a working system in whatever space... Why, it's the >>>>development platfrom for itself. Once you have it running and can poke >>and >>>>understand it the improvements will come. >>>> >>>>Allison >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri May 28 12:39:22 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: More Bringing up a CPM In-Reply-To: <199905281658.JAA19024@civic.hal.com> References: <001501bea8c7$feedace0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: <4.1.19990528103752.03cf81e0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 09:58 AM 5/28/99 -0700, Dwight wrote: > Also, when doing a MOVCPM, how does this program know >how to patch all of the addresses in the code? The reason >I ask is that it looks like the image that I down loaded >is setup as a 62K CPM. I'd like to make it simple to >get it back into the normal 20K position first so that I >can work within my current addresses ( yes, I know I can >just make a hole in the memory and move some up to the >high end ). My understanding is that MOVCPM has inside of it (as data presumably) the BDOS and CCP and a table of all relocation references, it just writes it out relocated to the address of your choice. --Chuck From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri May 28 13:41:15 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Whats a MassPar? Message-ID: <01JBQ9PKL0N69QWIAN@cc.usu.edu> > Two large chassis (size of old fridge) rolled into the salvage yard near > me, labeled MassPar and one of them has 8 big, I think, MFM drives in it. > Anybody know what this stuff is, or have interest in it? Its cheap, and > looks intact and very good shape. It's a massively parallel supercomputer containing thousands of four bit processors. It's a SIMD model; i.e., the thousands of four bit processors are all executing the same instruction simultaneously. MassPar was working on special FORTRAN and C compilers to run the thing. It's controlled by a Digital Ultrix workstation, either a Firefox or a DECstation 5000 depending on its age. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri May 28 12:47:23 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. Message-ID: <990528134723.21a000c9@trailing-edge.com> >> I think you're talking about RT-11, Allison, but I may be wrong because >> the utility name you specify and the options you're talking about make >> no sense under RT-11. Are you maybe talking about some other OS? >> >> Under RT-11, it's not PIP, it's DUP, and the option is /G:n. >> The CCL equivalent is COPY/FILE/DEVICE/START:n. > >It is RT but brain fart on the app name it is dup. Admittedly, under RT-11 trying to figure out whether DUP or PIP is performing a particular COPY function is sometimes a bit fuzzy. (Let's see, COPY can also invoke FILEX, too!) >> Or, even easier, just do an FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY. To be really thorough, >> do a FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY/PATT:7777 to write 12 different patterns over >> the disk. > >Forgot that one. ;) It's very useful for wiping media. Of course, with some common types of media, FORMAT/VERIFY:ONLY doesn't wipe all the blocks: for example, with RX01's and RX02's, it leaves track 0 untouched. DEC OS's don't usually store data on track 0, but still... . And RL01's and RL02's might end up with replacement blocks being untouched by the operation, too. I know that the subject of this thread is how we never mess around with confidential data, but as a tool for finding things that you might not have otherwise thought of, Bob Schor's "SNOOP" program is quite effective at finding files that used to be on a disk, even identifying entire logical disks. It's on the RT SIG tape 11S113, available by anonymous ftp from: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rt/decus/11s113/ in "schor2.dsk". Bob Schor also has a program called "CLEAR" whose only purpose is to blank out unused blocks on a RT-11 disk; this is in "schor1.dsk". -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From mark_k at iname.com Fri May 28 13:49:11 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: IBM Optical drives... A few questions Message-ID: Hi, On 24 May 1999 Jason (the General) wrote: > I just got two IBM Optical drives, complete with drivers, controllers, > operator's manual, and service manual. Nice. I have a 3363 drive myself, but no controller or docs. How big are the manuals? > -Are there updated drivers for these drives? The ones that cane with it run > the driver as a DOS shell, which takes up a bunch of memory, and slows down > the entire computer (also won't work with Windows). There *are* a couple of 3363-related files on the IBM PC BBS, but I doubt they are significantly better than the drivers you have already. ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/options/3363driv.exe 142869 11-14-90 3363 Optical Disk Drive Opt Dsk V.1.02D ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/dos_util/3363.zip 281665 05-24-90 Original 3363 opt dsk ver 3.3 & lower. > - Does anyone have an ISA controller card for one of these drives? Both That's just what I'm looking for to see whether my 3363 actually works. Please let me know if you ever get hold of a spare. > - Sometimes, when I put in a disk, and try to read it, I get a "General > Failure" error. I take the disk out, put it back in, and it works. I think > there was a discussion about this before. Do I just need to clean the > disks? It wouldn't hurt. The lens inside the drive may also be dirty/dusty. It's not fun to disassemble the drive in order to expose the lens. As for cleaning the disks, try this: - wear plastic gloves to avoid getting oil from skin on disk surface - breath on disk surface and wipe radially with a folded-up kitchen towel - rotate the disk using finger through centre - do the same for the other surface. > -The drives that I have are 3363's, and the disks I have are 3363 200MB > Single Sided cartridges (IBM). Can I use other types of Optical disks, or > do I have to use the IBM 3363 ones? No, as far as I know the 3363 uses proprietary disks, you can only use the IBM ones. I bet the disks aren't available any more, though it wouldn't hurt to ask IBM about this. If they are available, you can bet they'll be expensive. > I've heard (I think it was on this list) that the 3363 is a WORM drive. > However, it allows you to delete files, but you don't get any added space > when the file is deleted (as if the file is still there). If the file is > actually gone, where did the empty space go, and is there any way to get it > back? Or is the file still there, and it being 'deleted' is it just an > optical illusion (no pun intended)? Basically, the file is just marked as deleted in the directory (which will always be at the end of the written part of the disk). It is still physically on the disk. Depending on how the driver software works, it may or may not be possible to access previously-deleted files. Once a disk is full, you can't write to it again. You can't reformat a disk. (In its operation you can think of the 3363 as similar to a CD-R drive using a UDF filesystem -- I think.) -- Mark From jlwest at tseinc.com Fri May 28 13:19:48 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Info needed: HP1000F/2117F Message-ID: <006c01bea936$abb8dda0$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Since I have two 2117F's at home, I'll answer this one... You wrote... >And one of these cases where documentation can be TOO old... My one >vintage HP catalog predates these CPUs by a couple of years. The catalog >only lists the HP2116. Your machines are F series, the very last of the 1000 line I believe. The 2116 is one of the first. You've got both ends of the spectrum there ;) Bear this in mind, memory related cards go in the front card cage, i/o related cards in the rear card cage. There is no relationship between slot1 in front and slot1 in back. In the front card cage, the top three slots must be used for a specific card in each slot, in the remaining slots order isn't important (there are a few exceptions to this). In the rear, order isn't important except the slot number (octal select code) determines the interrupt priority of the board. Some OS's in the 1000 line expect certain cards to be in certain slots. In addition, the OS on your disks was likely genned to expect a certain card in every slot. I'm at work at the moment, so if there's any of the following notes I'm not sure of, email me over the weekend when I'm at home and I can clarify. > DCPC Dual Channel Port Controller this is basically a card that provides two independent DMA channels for any I/o cards in the rear panel. Must go in top slot, front card cage. Attach ribbon cable. > 13037 intf The 13037 is a disk controller for 7900A, 7905, 7906, 7920, and possibly 7925 drives. Different models of the 13037 could also support HP-IB as well as direct connect style drives. This card should go to a 5 inch tall rack mount box which contains a microprocessor board and several interface boards. Cables from the 13037 rack mount box then go to the drives. > Memory Protect This is an optional memory protect card. ISTR it has to do with handling parity errors instead of just halting the cpu. This must go in the front cage, second slot from the top. > Grd true in/out Grd true in/out is an I/o card used for line level interfacing (process control, etc.) > M.E.M. This is a Memory Expansion Module. It was necessary if the machine contained more that 64k of ram. Bear in mind that it is only usefull if the ROM's that go with it are in the Firmware accessory board. The firmware accessory board usually attached to the bottom cpu card and hung underneath it on the back right. The firmware roms provided some extra instructions for memory management (ie. setting up paging). This must go in the front cage, third slot from the top. > Grd true in/out Same as above. > 64k HSM 64k ram card. > 12747H Microcircuit The microcircuit interface ISTR is a 40 bit card to interface to external TTL levels. I'll have to look this up. Might also have been used to connect an I/O extender box, don't recall at the moment. > 64k HSM 64k ram card. >12747H BACI 12966A The 12966A baci card (buffered async control interface) is an RS232 port for you. One of the better models, actually. > 64k HSM 12747H another 64k ram card. > 7970 Mag Tape 2 The 7970 mag tape 2 card isn't for a second tape drive, it's the 2nd card in a two controller set for the 7970 tape drive. > 64k HSM 12747H another 64k ram card. > 7970 Mag Tape 1 The 7970 mag tape 1 is part of a 2 card set for a 7970 1/2 tape drive. the real number is 13181 or 13183 depending on the model 7970 it went to. > 64k HSM another 64k ram card. > Line Printer Dunno about the line printer designation, but it should be obvious. probably gpib interface. > 64k HSM 12747H another 64k ram card. > Time Base Gen The time base generator is a card used to provide various timing circuits. It does more than just act as a system clock, but that's the best way to describe it. Whether a TBG card is needed depends on the OS you load and the software features (modules) you use with it. > Mem Contr 2102E F.E.M. This is the main memory controller for all those 64k ram cards. there is a ribbon cable to attach it to each 64k ram card. > Main Logic? (under chassis) This is the cpu card itself. Look for the firmware accessory board attached underneath the cpu card in the back right. It holds instruction set additions typically. >Machine 2 Front card cage Rear card cage > > DCPC same as above > Jumper This was used in the I/o card cage if a card was not present. It just preserved the interrupt priority chain; normally empty non-adjacent slots are not allowed (unless you're doing all polling mode without need for arming the interrupts). > Memory Protect > I/O Buffer > M.E.M. all same as above > 8 Chan Mux I would need a part number, but sounds similar to the 12920/12921 mux controller. Multiple serial ports for terminals, printers, etc. > Standard Memories Bus I/O > (256k memory) > Standard Memories > (256k memory) Not familiar with these, they sound 3rd partyish to me, probably memory... > Disc Intf 2 the second controller of a two controller set, likely a 13210. This was used ONLY for 7900A disk drives. > 256kw 12749H 256kw ram. > Disc Intf 1 the first controller of a two controller set, likely a 13210. only 7900a again. > 256kw 12749H 256kw ram > Mem Contr 2102E same as above system > BACI 12966H same as above system > 12821A Disc Intf I don't recall for sure, but I *THINK* this might be for fixed head disks (earlier than the 7900A's). 2313 I think? Ahhh.. bad memory in my brain :) > Time Base Gen same as above > F.E.M. FEM or MEM? in a card cage, I would expect it to be MEM, same as above. Otherwise, an educated guess would be some type of firmware board. > Main Logic? (under chassis) same as above. >1, 2, 3, 4 Need to look up the part number for those. Possibly PSI's (programmable serial interface), used to hook up graphics terminals (one DB25 for keyboard, one DB25 for display). >I still need to find docs on this critter and the cards. I have a virtually complete documentation set for the above, sans a few of the cards. >After the usual pre-launch checks, all of the (apparently) optional cards >were removed from the card cages and the units were powered up. Curiously, >they both act identically in that they seem to have some front panel >function, but the CPUs seem to be hung pretty hard. The front panel on the 21mx line is pretty straigforward. A&B are registers, M is the memory location you want to look at, T is the contents of that location, P is the program counter, and S is a general purpose status register. The only thing not intuitive is that only when the T register is displayed and you press the store switch, the M register is automatically incremented for you (any other time you use the INC M button). Initially I found this annoying, but it is handy. Note that the A and B registers are memory locations 0 and 1 respectively - so they should be the same. As a test, try clearing register a, set a bit pattern, then press store. Then set the M register to zero, store, then look at T. It should be the same pattern you stored in A. Other important notes for a checkout - upon powerup, look at the very bottom row of lights (a/b/m/t/p/s). Only one should be lit. If more of them are lit, it indicates several different problems, the most likely of which is memory configuration/parity error. If the machine has the power fail option, deadness upon powerup can mean that the batteries are no longer sustaining memory. The system disables some functions to alert you of this. There is a way to clear this condition, but I need to check the manual when I get home. Another thing you can try is selecting the S register, clearing all bits, store, then set bits 6 through 11 to octal 13 (doesn't matter if there's a card in slot 13). Press preset, then IBL. If the overflow light comes on, nothing was loaded from ROM and you have a real problem. Otherwise... Then point the M register to 37777 and look at the T register. Instead of the zeros normally present on power up, you should see the contents of boot rom loader 00 are present (hit INC M to step up). The changing pattern will tell you it was able to load the boot loader. The 37777 memory location moves depending on how much ram is in the system. Finally, the 2117F should go through a powerup POST type test. Depending on battery charge (if the power fail option is present) sometimes it can take 20 seconds sometimes 30 minutes or so, but eventually if the system is 100% you should see the leftmost 5 bits or so on the display counting up as it checks memory. Since I'm at work and not at home, I'm reciting all this from memory. I could have easily left something out or said something wrong. Feel free to email me over the weekend on anything you have questions about. >No odd sounds or loss of magic smoke, so an initial suspicion is a >configuration error common to both units. The card cages only have >specific card notations on a couple of slots, so there is the obvious >question of proper card positioning. (no idea if the cages are a parallel >bus or not) The machines in question are using HSM type memory, which had a slightly strange setup compared to the memory subsystems in the other HP systems I also have (2113B 2109B) and work with more often. There are some real specifics related to slots and ribbon cables in the front card cage. When I get home I'll check how my 2117F's (which are running fine) are configured. Jay West From jlwest at tseinc.com Fri May 28 13:25:43 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: HP1000F/2117F Message-ID: <008001bea937$7f9acf20$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> In my previous post I mentioned the 13037 handling 7900A drives. It does not. 7900A drives use a 13210 controller. 7905/7906/7920 and I think 7925 use the 13037 controller. The 13037A and 13037B are different mainly in the number of drives it will support. The B model will support more (8 i think), the A only four as I recall... The 13037C will support HPIB drives like the 7906H as well as the 7906 "standard" variety. Sorry for the boo boo. Jay West From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 28 13:35:43 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: British Science Museum needs a lesson in history Message-ID: Here's an interesting announcement from the British Science Museum that might interest some of the folks in the UK (Tony, now you can get a job!) OPERATE THE BABY COMPUTER Would you like to work on the rebuilt 'Baby' computer? This rebuild of the original which ran for the first time on 21 June 1948 is on display in the Futures gallery at the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester. The Museum needs help to keep the computer in working order and to demonstrate it to visitors. You should have some experience in and knowledge of electronics. An interest in the history of computing would be desirable. You should also be available once during the week for training and, if possible, at the weekends for demonstrations. You will join the Museum's volunteer programme and will receive training on the computer's operation and maintenance, on its background history and on talking about the computer to Museum visitors. The Museum is the only place where you can have this opportunity to work with the first computer. You will be able to learn from the people who rebuilt the computer and benefit from the experience of explaining it to visitors. If you are interested in helping, please contact Jenny Wetton at the Museum, telephone 0161-832-2244, or email: j.wetton@msim.org.uk --- What's funny is the state in the second to last paragraph: "The Museum is the only place where you can have this opportunity to work with the first computer." Konrad Zuse might have a problem with this. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/22/99] From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri May 28 13:50:32 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: yippee, 24 TK52-K carts Message-ID: <4.1.19990528114629.00a5ca70@mcmanis.com> Well after crossing my fingers I got 24 TK-52-K 1/2" tape cartridges in the mail today. I've now got a reasonable amount of media for my TK70 to chew on. These were DEC labelled tapes interestingly enough. They come with a check box to indicate "296 MB" or "95 MB" and it appears that one can use them in a TK50 as well? That would be pretty cool (not that I have a TK50, but if I did it would be cool :-) A couple of questions of course ... 1) Can use in either drive? Restrictions? 2) Is it possible to write a TK50 bootable tape on a TK70? Also I signed up for DECUS so that I could get the OpenVMS media, but haven't heard back from DECUS.org, (its been a week). Are these guys slow? --Chuck From go at ao.com Fri May 28 14:26:12 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8018E5986@zwdld001.ca.norte l.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990528121444.054ec950@office.ao.com> At 10:37 AM 5/28/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >I don't think the Model 735 Selectric could even handle EBCDIC directly. I >seem to recall the electrical interface was defined as tilt-and-rotate >signal names. My Selectric terminal certainly didn't do any translation by >itself from character-codes to solenoid signals, at least not from ASCII. I >had to do translation myself before sending to the printer. One way would >have been with hardware between the computer and the Selectric, eg- using an >eprom to translate each ASCII code into the correct combination of Selectric >tilt-and-rotate signals. My lazier way was to simply put a look-up table in >my driver code, to intercept each ASCII character enroute to the printer and >translate it into the appropriate pattern of solenoid signals first. >Imagine if you had to drive a dot-matrix print head with raw pin-driver >signals instead of the printer hardware figuring it out for you : same kind >of problem. In the CDC-3300 and 3500, most of the "logic" in the operator console, as I remember from the prints, was related to driving the console typewriter. The "API" for the typewriter was a BCD (6 bit) similar to the "native" code, but included (in an enhanced mode of operation selected by a console button) shift codes for selecting lower case/upper case and some extra type-ball codes. Normally the printer ran in UPPER CASE only with a few BCD codes stolen for carriage return, tab and backspace. No other functions were available in the normal mode of operation. I'd guess the logic for this took about 50 or so circuit modules (little 3x3 inch cards with a few transistors each - probably the equivalent to a single TTL IC in functionality. I don't recall if there was a diode rom, though. As for ASCII, the 3300 didn't know nothing about ASCII. However, if you had the BDP (Business Data Processor) as an option, you could do ASCII string operations (including some arithmetic, if I recall.) e.g. "strcpy" and "strcmp" were single instructions (after some setup code.) But the BDP was a dog and crashed a lot. It was only used by the Cobol compiler. > >Some vendors did indeed supply an interface that took ASCII from the >computer and sent the necessary tilt-and-rotate signals out to the >Selectric. > >Arlen >-- >Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com >Nortel Networks, Ottawa, Canada Gary From jritorto at nut.net Fri May 28 11:08:36 1999 From: jritorto at nut.net (Jacob Ritorto) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: yippee, 24 TK52-K carts In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990528114629.00a5ca70@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: Yes, you can use those newer carts on a tk50, but once you write a header on one, it's formatted tk50 for good. Unless you manually degauss it or something. The tk70 can read both formats though. I guess that was DEC's way of keeping compatibility between the two drives. (lame) On Fri, 28 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > Well after crossing my fingers I got 24 TK-52-K 1/2" tape cartridges in the > mail today. I've now got a reasonable amount of media for my TK70 to chew > on. These were DEC labelled tapes interestingly enough. They come with a > check box to indicate "296 MB" or "95 MB" and it appears that one can use > them in a TK50 as well? That would be pretty cool (not that I have a TK50, > but if I did it would be cool :-) A couple of questions of course ... > 1) Can use in either drive? Restrictions? > 2) Is it possible to write a TK50 bootable tape on a > TK70? > Also I signed up for DECUS so that I could get the OpenVMS media, but > haven't heard back from DECUS.org, (its been a week). Are these guys slow? > > --Chuck > > > > > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri May 28 15:12:40 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Info needed: HP1000F/2117F In-Reply-To: <006c01bea936$abb8dda0$d401a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 1999, Jay West wrote: > Since I have two 2117F's at home, I'll answer this one... > > You wrote... > > F.E.M. > FEM or MEM? in a card cage, I would expect it to be MEM, same as above. > Otherwise, an educated guess would be some type of firmware board. F.E.M., really. It is in the bottom slot of the rear card cage (on each machine), and is connected to the main logic board with a ribbon cable. I did pull one out and look at it, it has a few EPROMS on it along with a large number of other similar sized chips (24/28 pin). I did not check numbers on the chips however... (bad me) I noted that it appeard that something could be mounted beneath the main logic board (threaded standoffs and such in view) but there is no additional card mounted in either machine. > >I still need to find docs on this critter and the cards. > I have a virtually complete documentation set for the above, sans a few of > the cards. How massive are the docs? copyable by mortal man? (or precluded by bindings and such) > >After the usual pre-launch checks, all of the (apparently) optional cards > >were removed from the card cages and the units were powered up. Curiously, > >they both act identically in that they seem to have some front panel > > >function, but the CPUs seem to be hung pretty hard. > > Other important notes for a checkout - upon powerup, look at the very bottom > row of lights (a/b/m/t/p/s). Only one should be lit. If more of them are > lit, it indicates several different problems, the most likely of which is > memory configuration/parity error. Ok, there is a check point! On both systems at power-up, that entire row of indicators is on. No amount of punching of front panel switches would change that. > If the machine has the power fail option, > deadness upon powerup can mean that the batteries are no longer sustaining > memory. The system disables some functions to alert you of this. There is a > way to clear this condition, but I need to check the manual when I get home. Hmmmm... not recalling any card that suggested it to be a power fail option, where would I look to determine if these are so equipped? There is a connector on the rear of the units (on the power supply) which refers to somehting about a battery... (note that I only have the two CPU chassis and the listed cards at present. No drives, peripherals, interface cables/boxes, etc... -sigh- > > Finally, the 2117F should go through a powerup POST type test. Depending on > battery charge (if the power fail option is present) sometimes it can take > 20 seconds sometimes 30 minutes or so, but eventually if the system is 100% > you should see the leftmost 5 bits or so on the display counting up as it > checks memory. Hmmm... no such indications that I recall... But again, it appeared hung (as per comments above) Sounds like that would be a good sign of initial life tho... > Since I'm at work and not at home, I'm reciting all this from memory. I > could have easily left something out or said something wrong. Feel free to > email me over the weekend on anything you have questions about. No doubt I will B^} (already) > >No odd sounds or loss of magic smoke, so an initial suspicion is a > >configuration error common to both units. The card cages only have > >specific card notations on a couple of slots, so there is the obvious > >question of proper card positioning. (no idea if the cages are a parallel > >bus or not) > > The machines in question are using HSM type memory, which had a slightly > strange setup compared to the memory subsystems in the other HP systems I > also have (2113B 2109B) and work with more often. Interesting. Also, the 'Standard memories' cards I referred to in the list are indeed 3rd party memory cards. A misconfiguration of the memory is a very real possibility as there is no telling how many hands may have diddled with these machines before I obtained them. > There are some real > specifics related to slots and ribbon cables in the front card cage. When I > get home I'll check how my 2117F's (which are running fine) are configured. Cool. Greatly appreciated! BTW: what are you running on yours? (and can I get a copy when I get some life into these critters? (assuming of course that HP is not tense on the issue for a machine of this vintage) Thanks! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri May 28 15:18:15 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: yippee, 24 TK52-K carts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > On Fri, 28 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > Also I signed up for DECUS so that I could get the OpenVMS media, but > > haven't heard back from DECUS.org, (its been a week). Are these guys slow? Yes, they are known to be a bit slow, but I suspect that a larger problem at the moment is that Compaq seems to be in the process of dismantling DECUS all together in favour of a "unified" Compaq user's association. (observation based on threads in the comp.org.decus newsgroup) -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 >>> Coming soon to www.computergarage.org - the CBBS/NW on-line archives >>> Coming to VCF III (2-3 October 1999) - CBBS/NW live! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 12:44:23 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at May 27, 99 11:53:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3079 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990528/7ef1d715/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 13:33:06 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <199905280356.AA22901@world.std.com> from "Megan" at May 27, 99 11:56:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 684 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990528/988fbeb2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 16:42:57 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: British Science Museum needs a lesson in history In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 28, 99 11:35:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990528/8db5dc64/attachment.ksh From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri May 28 18:54:22 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: British Science Museum needs a lesson in history In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 28, 99 10:42:57 pm Message-ID: <199905282354.QAA06072@saul4.u.washington.edu> Tony Duell wrote: > > "The Museum is the only place where you can have this opportunity to > > work with the first computer." > > > > Konrad Zuse might have a problem with this. > > _At_ the musuem they advertise the machine as the first electronic > computer with random-access memory. I have far less of a problem with > that statement :-) Except that Zuse's Z3 also had random-access memory, just not for the program. IIRC the Z3 had/has 64 data registers. In fact (as Sellam might remember since this was presented at a speech at last year's VCF) there is a way to give the Z3 random read-only access to its program. The Z3 reads its opcodes from a strip of 35mm movie film; the film can of course be looped together; most importantly the Z3 will _stop_ if it encounters an arithmetic exception. So the "only" work left is to partition the program into sections and explode each arithmetic operation into a conditional operation based on the current value of the section counter. It's possible to do the exploding without causing any more exceptions. I think the section counter needs to go in one of the registers. Hans Franke might know more about this. -- Derek From donm at cts.com Fri May 28 18:57:13 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8018E5986@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 1999, Arlen Michaels wrote: > I don't think the Model 735 Selectric could even handle EBCDIC directly. I > seem to recall the electrical interface was defined as tilt-and-rotate > signal names. My Selectric terminal certainly didn't do any translation by > itself from character-codes to solenoid signals, at least not from ASCII. I > had to do translation myself before sending to the printer. One way would > have been with hardware between the computer and the Selectric, eg- using an > eprom to translate each ASCII code into the correct combination of Selectric > tilt-and-rotate signals. My lazier way was to simply put a look-up table in > my driver code, to intercept each ASCII character enroute to the printer and > translate it into the appropriate pattern of solenoid signals first. Well, considering the print speed capability of the Selectric mechanism, your approach was unlikely to slow down the output. > Imagine if you had to drive a dot-matrix print head with raw pin-driver > signals instead of the printer hardware figuring it out for you : same kind > of problem. Seems to me that I recall just that approach in some of the early attempts at printer graphics with CP/M. - don > Some vendors did indeed supply an interface that took ASCII from the > computer and sent the necessary tilt-and-rotate signals out to the > Selectric. > > Arlen > -- > Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com > Nortel Networks, Ottawa, Canada > > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri May 28 19:34:51 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: References: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8018E5986@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990528173451.00942660@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:57 PM 5/28/99 -0700, don wrote: >On Fri, 28 May 1999, Arlen Michaels wrote: > >> Imagine if you had to drive a dot-matrix print head with raw pin-driver >> signals instead of the printer hardware figuring it out for you : same kind >> of problem. > >Seems to me that I recall just that approach in some of the early attempts >at printer graphics with CP/M. Or in the case of some software I wrote WBW... When some of the first letter-quality (daisy wheel and thimble) printers came out, we quickly found that you could micro-step the print carriage and platen. Now, how many '.' fingers on the print wheels do you think we wore out once we started teaching these printers to be plotters?! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 19:40:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: British Science Museum needs a lesson in history In-Reply-To: <199905282354.QAA06072@saul4.u.washington.edu> from "Derek Peschel" at May 28, 99 04:54:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1301 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990529/90402493/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 19:46:01 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990528173451.00942660@agora.rdrop.com> from "James Willing" at May 28, 99 05:34:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1495 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990529/14cf6dab/attachment.ksh From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri May 28 20:16:46 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: British Science Museum needs a lesson in history In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 29, 99 01:40:34 am Message-ID: <199905290116.SAA11034@saul1.u.washington.edu> > > > _At_ the musuem they advertise the machine as the first electronic > > > computer with random-access memory. I have far less of a problem with > > > that statement :-) > > > > Except that Zuse's Z3 also had random-access memory, just not for the > > program. IIRC the Z3 had/has 64 data registers. > > It was implied (if not explicitly stated) that the _program_ was in > random-access memory as well. Well, yes, but I'm being pedantic. Partly I think that the Manchester machine may get more attention than it deserves (at least I'm biased in favor of the elegance of Zuse's and Wiles' designs). > I would claim that was 'faking' a random access of a sequential access > store (in much the same way that you can address a particular block on a > TU58 cartridge, but tape is certainly a seqeuntial device). You are right. But if one just wanted the effect, one could get it from the Z3 -- well, get it after waiting a horribly long time for the program to run, anyway. :) -- Derek From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri May 28 20:23:26 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 29, 99 01:46:01 am Message-ID: <199905290123.SAA14381@saul1.u.washington.edu> Tony Duell wrote: > As an aside, there have been laser printer interfaces where the host > computer gets to control the laser engine control signals directly, > rather than talking to a 'formatter board' that turns > text/graphics/postscript/whatever into a suitable bitmap for printing. [...] > The standard PERQ laser printer interface was like this, and I've seen > similar interface cards for PCs, Atari STs and Acorn Archimedes machines I think the Amstrad PCW printer works the same way. I can't check the FAQ right now, but IIRC one item says, "How can I connect my Amstrad printer to another machine? How can I connect another printer to the Amstrad?" (Answer: Basically, you can't.) I don't remember if that printer is a laser, inket, or matrix printer. > I've seen (and probably still have somewhere) plastic daisywheels with a > metal pin for the '.' , just to make the last a little longer when used > like this. Were there a couple of other commonly-reinforced pins, like 'e'? -- Derek From blstuart at bellsouth.net Fri May 28 19:19:23 1999 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 29 May 1999 01:46:01 +0100 (BST) . Message-ID: In message , Tony Duell writes: >> >> At 04:57 PM 5/28/99 -0700, don wrote: >> >On Fri, 28 May 1999, Arlen Michaels wrote: >> > >> >> Imagine if you had to drive a dot-matrix print head with raw pin-driver >> >> signals instead of the printer hardware figuring it out for you : same >> kind >> >> of problem. > >As an aside, there have been laser printer interfaces where the host >computer gets to control the laser engine control signals directly, >rather than talking to a 'formatter board' that turns >text/graphics/postscript/whatever into a suitable bitmap for printing. > >Of course this is a slightly higher level than talking to the mechanics >directly, since you have a signal to tell the printer to start a page >rather than having to control the motor and clutches directly. But still, >the host computer has to monitor the Beam Detect signal and send suitably >timed pixels to the laser control input. > >The standard PERQ laser printer interface was like this, and I've seen >similar interface cards for PCs, Atari STs and Acorn Archimedes machines A couple of other data points are worth pointing out here. The NeXT printer worked this way. Since the display was driven by translating Display PostScript into a raster pixmap, translating it to a raster for the printer fit nicely into the model. Sun also did the raster interface thing with the first SPARCPrinter (though it's not quite classic by the 10 year rule AFAIK.) These two are also the only two I can think of off the top of my head that operate at 400dpi. The default behavior for the SPARCPrinter was 300dpi, but you could put it into a 400dpi mode. In fact I had to return a replacement unit becaue it worked fine at 300 but had an amusing wavey right margin at 400dpi. Brian L. Stuart From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri May 28 20:37:22 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <199905290123.SAA14381@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 1999, Derek Peschel wrote: > I think the Amstrad PCW printer works the same way. I can't check the FAQ > right now, but IIRC one item says, "How can I connect my Amstrad printer to > another machine? How can I connect another printer to the Amstrad?" > (Answer: Basically, you can't.) I don't remember if that printer is a > laser, inket, or matrix printer. Its a dot matrix variety. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri May 28 21:26:00 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Re: ICL vs GE Terminet: So far, Tony, you have described exactly the works of the Terminet... I'd be willing to bet at this point that the only substantial differences might be font and mains voltage. And you are welcome to the schematics etc... they are taking up shelf space. Naturally as soon as I send them off I'll inherit a pallet load of Terminets.. ;) Of course then I'll know where to get the data! Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri May 28 21:56:02 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <199905290123.SAA14381@saul1.u.washington.edu> from "Derek Peschel" at May 28, 99 06:23:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1715 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990529/32deabb6/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Fri May 28 23:16:44 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990528173451.00942660@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 1999, James Willing wrote: > >Seems to me that I recall just that approach in some of the early attempts > >at printer graphics with CP/M. > > Or in the case of some software I wrote WBW... > > When some of the first letter-quality (daisy wheel and thimble) printers > came out, we quickly found that you could micro-step the print carriage and > platen. > > Now, how many '.' fingers on the print wheels do you think we wore out once > we started teaching these printers to be plotters?! Probably went from '.' to '*' to '#' to ' '! - don From donm at cts.com Fri May 28 23:19:56 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <199905290123.SAA14381@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 1999, Derek Peschel wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > As an aside, there have been laser printer interfaces where the host > > computer gets to control the laser engine control signals directly, > > rather than talking to a 'formatter board' that turns > > text/graphics/postscript/whatever into a suitable bitmap for printing. > > [...] > > The standard PERQ laser printer interface was like this, and I've seen > > similar interface cards for PCs, Atari STs and Acorn Archimedes machines > > I think the Amstrad PCW printer works the same way. I can't check the FAQ > right now, but IIRC one item says, "How can I connect my Amstrad printer to > another machine? How can I connect another printer to the Amstrad?" > (Answer: Basically, you can't.) I don't remember if that printer is a > laser, inket, or matrix printer. Dot matrix. - don > > I've seen (and probably still have somewhere) plastic daisywheels with a > > metal pin for the '.' , just to make the last a little longer when used > > like this. > > Were there a couple of other commonly-reinforced pins, like 'e'? > > -- Derek > > From paul at paul.dragontear.org Sat May 29 00:00:31 1999 From: paul at paul.dragontear.org (paul yaskowski) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: More of my annoying VAXstation 3100 questions Message-ID: <19990529010030.A26612@paul.dragontear.org> Hello, Just a quick question; I have an old NEC 3x external SCSI CDROM, and i'm in need of a CDROM for my VAXstation 3100. Assuming I found the right cables, could that CDROM be used? -paul -- paul@paul.dragontear.org [a paradigm of a paramount failure] From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat May 29 00:34:09 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: More of my annoying VAXstation 3100 questions In-Reply-To: <19990529010030.A26612@paul.dragontear.org> Message-ID: > Just a quick question; I have an old NEC 3x external SCSI CDROM, and >i'm in need of a CDROM for my VAXstation 3100. Assuming I found the >right cables, could that CDROM be used? It depends. It needs 512-byte blocks, most PC CD-ROMS use 2048-byte blocks. The big problem might be the cable if you want an external CD. I have plugged a 3rd Party Mac CD-ROM directly into one of the internal cables before I got a external cable. I like Toshiba 4x SCSI CDROM drives. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 29 00:37:08 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip Message-ID: Look what those wacky college students are up to now: http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 04/03/99] From mikeford at netwiz.net Sat May 29 00:24:18 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Data General MV / 4000 SoCal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990528103752.03cf81e0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> References: <199905281658.JAA19024@civic.hal.com> <001501bea8c7$feedace0$0100c0a8@fuj03> Message-ID: The GSA surplus in Fullerton CA has a Data General MV 4000 Eclipse with printer and tape drives etc. Looks complete, tagged at a few hundred, but it is one of those looney goverment prices, ie 90% off isn't uncommon for slow moving items. They also have a couple dozen of some IBM impact printer, 36xx I think. From mikeford at netwiz.net Sat May 29 00:25:38 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:20 2005 Subject: Whats a MassPar? In-Reply-To: <01JBQ9PKL0N69QWIAN@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: >> Two large chassis (size of old fridge) rolled into the salvage yard near >> me, labeled MassPar and one of them has 8 big, I think, MFM drives in it. >> Anybody know what this stuff is, or have interest in it? Its cheap, and >> looks intact and very good shape. > >It's a massively parallel supercomputer containing thousands of four bit >processors. It's a SIMD model; i.e., the thousands of four bit processors >are all executing the same instruction simultaneously. MassPar was working >on special FORTRAN and C compilers to run the thing. It's controlled by >a Digital Ultrix workstation, either a Firefox or a DECstation 5000 depending >on its age. Well then add to that, that the workstation may still be there too. From jritorto at nut.net Fri May 28 21:55:45 1999 From: jritorto at nut.net (Jacob Ritorto) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: pdp11/45 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: thank you, Tony! I'll run through those steps and get back to you asap.. On Thu, 27 May 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Hello Classiccmp. > > I recently acquired a nice, rust-free, mostly-original 11/45 from > > You're in luck. The 11/45 was the first '11 that I obtained, and I have > the manuals for it (printset, maintenace manual, etc). [..hack..] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri May 28 16:45:47 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: "Arlen Michaels" "RE: What's a "computer console" selectric called?" (May 28, 10:37) References: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8018E5986@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> Message-ID: <9905282245.ZM8524@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 28, 10:37, Arlen Michaels wrote: > Subject: RE: What's a "computer console" selectric called? > > From: Don Maslin [SMTP:donm@cts.com] > > On Thu, 27 May 1999, Arlen Michaels wrote: > > > Actually, the biggest challenge in interfacing this thing to a computer > > was > > > to sort out how to read one particular status signal from one of the > > > microswitch contacts in the print mechanism, so your computer could > > start > > > sending the next character at just the right moment before the > > mechanical > > > cycle completely finished. Else your software had to pause a few > > > > Didn't you also have to feed it EBCDIC instead of ASCII in order for it to > > 'understand' what you wanted printed? > I don't think the Model 735 Selectric could even handle EBCDIC directly. I > seem to recall the electrical interface was defined as tilt-and-rotate > signal names. My Selectric terminal certainly didn't do any translation by > itself from character-codes to solenoid signals, at least not from ASCII. I > had to do translation myself before sending to the printer. One way would > have been with hardware between the computer and the Selectric, eg- using an > eprom to translate each ASCII code into the correct combination of Selectric > tilt-and-rotate signals. My lazier way was to simply put a look-up table in > my driver code, to intercept each ASCII character enroute to the printer and > translate it into the appropriate pattern of solenoid signals first. > Imagine if you had to drive a dot-matrix print head with raw pin-driver > signals instead of the printer hardware figuring it out for you : same kind > of problem. > > Some vendors did indeed supply an interface that took ASCII from the > computer and sent the necessary tilt-and-rotate signals out to the > Selectric. Coincidentally, last weekend I was going through old magazines from 1979, and found a pair of articles by Roland Perry in Practical Computing (the UK magazine, January/February 1979) describing a Selectric interface. According to the articles, there were three types: BCD, correspondence, and BCD-converted-to-correspondence. All of them use tilt-and-rotate codes, which vary according to the golfball type (BCD or correspondence) and the keyboards differ as do the golfballs. The interface was pretty simple (8 SSI TTL ICs, 14 driver transistors) but the contacts had to be re-wired to suit the terminal version. The driver code used a lookup table to convert ASCII to interface signals, sent 8-bit-parallel from an I/O port on an 8080, with two handshake lines. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Sat May 29 04:30:46 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: PET 2001-32 available Message-ID: Here's someone wanting to sell their PET 2001-32 (new style keyboard). Please reply directly to the seller. Reply-to: sharonklee@netzero.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:31:36 -0400 From: SLee Commodore Pet Personal computer with built in screen-- the tag on the back says "Pet 20001-32" Come with a tape drive and a dual flopy disk drive. Both are separate from the main unit but connected by cable. The tag on the back of the dual floppy says "Commodore dual floppy 2040 serial number 407680" excellent condition. protected with plastic cover Both are in working condition Cables are available. Come with orginial manuals and pet magazine and game magazine --- Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Puttin' the smack down on the man! Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web site update: 05/25/99] From max82 at surfree.com Sat May 29 08:27:00 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Look what those wacky college students are up to now: > >http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html This is fairly old. As the site says, it was done for the ENIAC 50th anniversary. I would like to add that IMHO, even if it is similar to an ENIAC in architecture, it is in no way an ENIAC. If someone gave me an ENIAC-on-a-chip, I would not feel that I have anything like an ENIAC. Consider that while the ENIAC was operated with knobs and switches, this chip is operated by raising certain lines via a PC interface. Now, that sounds like a math coprocessor to me :) --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 29 11:07:59 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? Message-ID: <199905291607.AA13213@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: >The most extreme was the LPS40 (DEC, 12/27/1997) that literally had a >BA23 microvax in the base to do, networking, distributed queue management, >Postscript to raster engine interpretation. It was then handed to a 4board >set (bimaps and display list to raster bitmap engine) and set serially to >the printengine. The printengine had 1 8085 to manage the system, 3 8749s >to manage the mechanics and a 78pg11 to handle the large capacity paper >input. All that was to print complex postscript pages at 40ppm. That >seems obscene but starting one piece of A4 paper every 1.5 second plus >between three and four peices in transit is not a trivial task. Then there >was the Xerox 9700 (120ppm) monster (10+running feet of laser printer.). How big is the LPS40? Can the microvax be programmed ( :) )? BTW, do you know if the Xerox machines use any kind of common computer? At school, we have an enormous Xerox copier with a touch screen to enter the selection, and I was wondering what it used. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat May 29 12:36:35 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? Message-ID: <990529133635.2120032e@trailing-edge.com> >How big is the LPS40? Can the microvax be programmed ( :) )? BTW, do you >know if the Xerox machines use any kind of common computer? Many Xerox laserprinters use a J11-based (same CPU chip as PDP-11/73, 83, 84, 93, and 94) controller. Some have it on a Q-bus backplane, but most J11-based Xerox engines that I've seen have their own custom bus. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From wanderer at bos.nl Sat May 29 16:13:26 1999 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Board identification References: <199905291607.AA13213@world.std.com> Message-ID: <37505876.1C66@bos.nl> Hi All, Just unloaded a 11/34 with some very unusual cards in the machine, but the most intresting thing is that it had a PC11/PR11, an RX01 an Rk05j. The cards I cannot identify are labelled as follows: DSS11XA DSS11B There was also a backplane with 3rd party quad cards, with white handles. They only have number, no texts. They are : HA.C174D0820 HA.C174D0804 HA.C174D0817 There are two Berg connectors on two of the cards. It also came with a VT30 interface. What can I do with it besides connecting it to a color monitor? Is there some usefull S/W for it available? Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat May 29 14:26:46 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: More of my annoying VAXstation 3100 questions In-Reply-To: <19990529010030.A26612@paul.dragontear.org> from "paul yaskowski" at May 29, 1999 01:00:31 AM Message-ID: <199905291926.NAA24584@calico.litterbox.com> > > Hello, > > Just a quick question; I have an old NEC 3x external SCSI CDROM, and > i'm in need of a CDROM for my VAXstation 3100. Assuming I found the > right cables, could that CDROM be used? > > -paul > > -- > paul@paul.dragontear.org [a paradigm of a paramount failure] I would expect so, but no guarentees. I finally wound up using an IBM cdrom drive originally built for notebook computers when my 24x NEC failed to be recognised. You can order the cable directly from Digital for about $35.00 US. Call 1-800-digital. Make sure you have the model number of the machine because they changed the external SCSI connector several times. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 29 14:59:54 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > On Fri, 28 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >Look what those wacky college students are up to now: > > > >http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html > > This is fairly old. As the site says, it was done for the ENIAC 50th > anniversary. I would like to add that IMHO, even if it is similar to an > ENIAC in architecture, it is in no way an ENIAC. If someone gave > me an ENIAC-on-a-chip, I would not feel that I have anything like an > ENIAC. Consider that while the ENIAC was operated with knobs and switches, > this chip is operated by raising certain lines via a PC interface. Now, > that sounds like a math coprocessor to me :) Yeah, but you're still programming an ENIAC. The interface is just more modern. If you're so indignant you can always build a "knobs and switches" interface to settle your neurosis. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat May 29 15:33:58 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? Message-ID: <199905292033.AA05421@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Yeah, but you're still programming an ENIAC. The interface is just more >modern. If you're so indignant you can always build a "knobs and >switches" interface to settle your neurosis. Maybe you don't see what I'm saying (and I don't know any reason for insults, either). Let's say you're a radio collector. You want a certain old radio, which you would never be able to own. Somebody gives you a modern radio with the same circuit layout but the old components have been replaced by modern ones. Such a radio could fit on a circuit board 2" sq. if done with surface mount. It works the same way. Would you take this radio, and say 'hell, if I want, I can add the old-fashioned knobs later'? I doubt it. Now, granted, this is the only kind of ENIAC anyone will ever be able to own, but I'm dubious about how similar the experience would be to running a real ENIAC. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 29 12:43:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: pdp11/45 In-Reply-To: from "Jacob Ritorto" at May 29, 99 02:55:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 310 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990529/e877d69f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 29 16:04:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: What's a "computer console" selectric called? In-Reply-To: <199905291607.AA13213@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at May 29, 99 12:07:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2066 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990529/6129a0d1/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat May 29 16:28:17 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > Maybe you don't see what I'm saying (and I don't know any reason for > insults, either). Let's say you're a radio collector. You want a certain > old radio, which you would never be able to own. Somebody gives you a > modern radio with the same circuit layout but the old components have been > replaced by modern ones. Such a radio could fit on a circuit board 2" > sq. if done with surface mount. It works the same way. Would you take this > radio, and say 'hell, if I want, I can add the old-fashioned knobs later'? > I doubt it. Now, granted, this is the only kind of ENIAC anyone will ever > be able to own, but I'm dubious about how similar the experience would be > to running a real ENIAC. Well, its not like you're buying an ENIAC replica from the pages of the Sunday morning newspaper inserts. This was a mental exercise for the most part, and nobody is forcing you to buy it or use it. If you don't like it then why not build an actual ENIAC replica, replete with knobs and switches? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99] From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Sat May 29 16:45:28 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Comprehensive Commodore History Message-ID: <199905292145.OAA04210@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 963 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990529/082036c2/attachment.ksh From max82 at surfree.com Sat May 29 16:06:00 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Well, its not like you're buying an ENIAC replica from the pages of the >Sunday morning newspaper inserts. This was a mental exercise for the most >part, and nobody is forcing you to buy it or use it. If you don't like it >then why not build an actual ENIAC replica, replete with knobs and >switches? *Sigh* This is how flamewars start :) --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 29 16:15:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at May 29, 99 03:44:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1102 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990529/ead79d43/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat May 29 18:08:12 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 29, 1999 10:15:38 PM Message-ID: <199905292308.RAA25404@calico.litterbox.com> > I'll accept that I'm programming an ENIAC when I can stick my voltmeter > on it and measure the 500V (or whatever) HT+ (B+ across the Pond). When I > can clip my 'scope on various testpoints. When I can warm my hands over > all those nice valves :-) > > -tony > How about this? We'll call it an Eniac hardware emulator. It's not the original hardware, but it's a workalike. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Sat May 29 18:28:33 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Vintage S-100 cards Message-ID: I just acquired a number of vintage (circa 1977) S-100 cards. They are listed below: 3) Processor Technology 16k(?) RAM cards - one fully populated with NEC uPD414C chips, which I take to be a 2414 clone. The other two seem to have all of the glue chips, but no RAM. They are identified in silkscreen as ASSY NO.203000 and in etch as 16KRA. 1) Polymorphic Systems 8k RAM card. It is fully populated with 2102 chips. It is a product of Interactive Products Corp. 1) Processor Technology Helios II Controller - presumably for an 8" drive (two 50-pin headers). No LSI. 1) Processor Technology Formatter. Based on its 50-pin header and the header's location, I infer that this card is part of a two card set that is the Helios II listed above. Again, no LSI. 1) Percom Cassette/Terminal I/O card. Carries one each male and female 10-pin connector. Also has an SMC COM2502 chip (40-pin). There is a ~2x4" breadboard area on one end of the card. Obviously, I have no way to know if these cards are functional. However, they are clean and not beaten up. Anybody care? Anyone interested? Any offers? - don From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sat May 29 18:39:38 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 29, 99 10:15:38 pm Message-ID: <199905292339.QAA05080@saul10.u.washington.edu> > I'll accept that I'm programming an ENIAC when I can stick my voltmeter > on it and measure the 500V (or whatever) HT+ (B+ across the Pond). When I > can clip my 'scope on various testpoints. When I can warm my hands over > all those nice valves :-) In one of my classes, we just had a guest speaker from Tera (the local super- computer firm). He explained that this is exactly what is _not_ possible with their machines, because the circuitry is so dense that testing like that would disturb it. Tera's solution is very interesting but somehow I suspect you would not approve. The solution, BTW, is to use a method called SCAN. I assume that's an acronym but I'm not sure. Their machines contain blocks of combinatorial (stateless) logic separated by latches for pipelining purposes. The latches can be "commutated" so that they connect to each other like a giant shift register, rather than acting in parallel. Then the appropriate values can be fed in and the combinatorial logic exercised for one clock tick. (The point is to test the combinatorial logic and hope that the latches and other test circuitry are working normally.) There are many refinements, of course, but that's the essence of it. (There are mulltiple SCAN paths; there are un-commutable latches to prevent test data from being sent to the disk controller and erasing the filesystem and other such calamities; there are specialized test controllers in every machine.) As a bonus the test circuitry is also used to boot the machine (by loading a program into the cache, etc.) In that sense execution is the ultimate test of the circuitry. :) The speaker also noted that Tera's method is completely superior to Intel's. -- Derek From rcini at email.msn.com Sat May 29 07:56:43 1999 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Looking for...Hayes Chronograph Message-ID: <021001beaa31$5ea76260$ac932599@office1> Hello, all: Does anyone remember this Hayes novelty? I saw a pic in an old magazine and thought what a neat idea -- a serial programmable clock in the same case as a Hayes Modem. If anyone comes across one of these, I'd be interested in it. Also, if anyone has a manual for this, let me know. In the absence of an actual clock, maybe I can hack one together with Stamp. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator From aknight at mindspring.com Sat May 29 18:57:30 1999 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: HP2100S musings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990529195730.008d4290@pop.cphl.mindspring.com> Hi, I was poking around inside the HP2100S mini that I acquired recently, and thought some of you might be interested in what's in there. No photos yet, but I expect to have some soon. It appears to me that the computer's backplane is divided into three sections. Two sections are in the front half of the chassis. The left section is coded with a blue color, and I think this is where the CPU itself is. There are nine circuit cards plugged in, with the designations marked A1 through A8 (going left to right), the ninth card isn't marked. The A2 card has a clip-on piece of plastic marked "FP ROM 12901A installed". To the right of the blue section is a section color-coded in red. This appears to the the Input/Output option card section. Slots 10-12 are empty, and starting with slot 13 the card designators are as follows: +8 BIT DUP REG DISC INTF' 2 (13210A) DISC INTF' 1 (13210A) 16 BIT G.P.O. +16 BIT DUP REG RELAY OUT REG JUMPER GRD TRUE IN/OUT GRD TRUE CONTR BUSS DATA BUSS CONTRL JUMPER Some of these are pretty obvious about their functions, but does anybody have any idea what the "DUP REG" functions are? The "BUSS DATA" and "BUSS CONTRL" cards have headers on them that I believe are for attaching a HP peripheral box. This system came out of a HP 8500 Network Analyzer product, and one of the peripheral boxes I got looks to have the other end of the BUSS stuff on it. The docs that I got with the system indicate that the graphics terminal and a printer are attached through the peripheral box. The third main section is in the rear on the left hand side. The power supply occupies the quadrant on the right hand, rear side of the machine. The rear card section is color coded black, and from left to right the card fill is as follows: XYD \ - Connected on top with 02100 60052 jumper header SSA / SSA \ - Connected on top with 02100 60054 jumper header XYD / ID (16K) --| --| These four are interconnected as shown | | along the top using ribbon cables. IDL | --| | | DC --| | | | ID (16K) --| --| XYD \ - Connected on top with 02100 60052 jumper header SSA / SSA \ - Connected on top with 02100 60054 jumper header XYD / The "XYD" boards are HP part number 02100-60053, and appear to me to have mag core driver circuitry. The "SSA" boards look to be the core memory boards. The one I examined had a jumper installed in the "8K" position (the other possible position was "4K"). I'm speculating that the black section is the memory subsystem for the machine, and that the ID & DC boards have something to do with memory addressing, decoding, etc. That's all the info. I have right now. Doesn't look to me like there are any terminal I/O type interfaces in the box. I haven't had the nerve yet to power it up to see if it does anything. If any of ya'll have any info. about this machine, I'd appreciate a shout. Regards, Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm From jlwest at tseinc.com Sat May 29 19:40:48 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: HP2100S musings Message-ID: <005101beaa35$10bc0a20$0101a8c0@jay> A 2100S in good condition is a nice find. Is it just me or did the 2100/21MX line of HP gear suddenly get popular with collectors in the past 6 months or so? You wrote... >Some of these are pretty obvious about their functions, >but does anybody have any idea what the "DUP REG" functions >are? There were two boards in the 2100/21MX line called DUP REG. They were the 8-bit duplex register PCA and the 16-bit duplex register PCA. They are general purpose I/O interfaces. I know for sure that the 8-bit board was used almost exclusively for paper tape readers or paper tape punches. I've never seen the 16-bit board in use, so I'm not sure what it was used for. >I'm speculating that the black section is the memory subsystem >for the machine, and that the ID & DC boards have something >to do with memory addressing, decoding, etc. As I recall, you are correct in your speculation. >That's all the info. I have right now. Doesn't look to >me like there are any terminal I/O type interfaces in >the box. I haven't had the nerve yet to power it up >to see if it does anything. If any of ya'll have any info. >about this machine, I'd appreciate a shout. The 2100S gave you a choice of several different terminal interfaces. Most common for general use was the 12531A, B, C, or D. Most common for scientific use was the (IIRC) 12766 BACI. Also, the power supply in the 2100A/S was er.... not the best example of HP's usual over-engineering. Check those voltages with dummy loads before you sacrifice some cards :) I've got a fair amount of docs on the 2100A/S, but check out Jeff Moffat's website, he has some decent manuals online. Jay West From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat May 29 20:08:14 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: <199905292339.QAA05080@saul10.u.washington.edu> from "Derek Peschel" at May 29, 99 04:39:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1596 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990530/a3f9c6d3/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat May 29 20:26:44 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Vintage S-100 cards In-Reply-To: Don Maslin "Vintage S-100 cards" (May 29, 16:28) References: Message-ID: <9905300226.ZM11136@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 29, 16:28, Don Maslin wrote: > Subject: Vintage S-100 cards > > I just acquired a number of vintage (circa 1977) S-100 cards. They are > listed below: > > 3) Processor Technology 16k(?) RAM cards - one fully populated with > NEC uPD414C chips, which I take to be a 2414 clone. The other > two seem to have all of the glue chips, but no RAM. They are > identified in silkscreen as ASSY NO.203000 and in etch as 16KRA. uPD414 is the equivalent of a 4027 DRAM (4096 x 1bits). What's a 2414? Did you mean 2114, or 2147? > Anybody care? Anyone interested? Any offers? Yes, but shipping to the UK would be too expensive :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From edick at idcomm.com Sat May 29 20:52:45 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Vintage S-100 cards Message-ID: <001501beaa3f$1d80e280$0100c0a8@fuj03> I have to admit, the 2414 is a strange number to me also. I looked up the NEC DRAMs though, and the uPD414C would have been equivalent to a MOSTEK MK4027. Remember, MOSTEK was the industry leader in DRAMs in the mid-'70's. This number predates my NEC data, but uPD416C would have been the 16K version. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Vintage S-100 cards >On May 29, 16:28, Don Maslin wrote: >> Subject: Vintage S-100 cards >> >> I just acquired a number of vintage (circa 1977) S-100 cards. They are >> listed below: >> >> 3) Processor Technology 16k(?) RAM cards - one fully populated with >> NEC uPD414C chips, which I take to be a 2414 clone. The other >> two seem to have all of the glue chips, but no RAM. They are >> identified in silkscreen as ASSY NO.203000 and in etch as 16KRA. > >uPD414 is the equivalent of a 4027 DRAM (4096 x 1bits). What's a 2414? > Did you mean 2114, or 2147? > >> Anybody care? Anyone interested? Any offers? > >Yes, but shipping to the UK would be too expensive :-) > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York From cfandt at netsync.net Sat May 29 22:00:36 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990529225549.00ad3510@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 03:44 PM 5/29/99 -0400, Max Eskin said something like: >On Sat, 29 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >>Yeah, but you're still programming an ENIAC. The interface is just more >>modern. If you're so indignant you can always build a "knobs and >>switches" interface to settle your neurosis. > >Maybe you don't see what I'm saying (and I don't know any reason for >insults, either). Let's say you're a radio collector. You want a certain >old radio, which you would never be able to own. Somebody gives you a >modern radio with the same circuit layout but the old components have been >replaced by modern ones. Such a radio could fit on a circuit board 2" >sq. if done with surface mount. It works the same way. Would you take this >radio, and say 'hell, if I want, I can add the old-fashioned knobs later'? >I doubt it. Now, granted, this is the only kind of ENIAC anyone will ever >be able to own, but I'm dubious about how similar the experience would be >to running a real ENIAC. Amen, Max. The only thing one would probably get out of that 'radio' would be a work-alike thing. Exactly the same for that ENIAC-on-a-chip. Work-alike, probably, but no where near the same as having either the real thing or a functional replica with tubes/relays/other fun parts. Regards, Chris, an old radio collector (or rather, collector of old radios :) -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From sipke at wxs.nl Sat May 29 22:10:49 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: Message-ID: <3750AC39.ACE40D4@wxs.nl> Fair enough, You make a point regarding continued aviability of classic computers. And going straight to the press would indeed be foolish. But it may make sense that the public be educated on this issue otherwise somebody may inadvertently create some vital-info leak an all the press jumps the bandwagon in a way that will make every body as distrustfull as about the Y2K issue. Therefore my remarks should have been taken a bit ironously. :) Sipkw Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish > > any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be > > revealed. > > Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do? > > At the moment there is no problem. All of us here (I hope) are sensible > about deleting personal data. So there is no risk in giving any of us a > machine with such data on it. > > The last thing we need is the public saying "I couldn't be sure that none > of my [love letters/tax returns/medical records] were on that > [Altair/PERQ/DEC 10/etc] so I broke it into little pieces so that nobody > could ever read them" > > -tony From sipke at wxs.nl Sat May 29 22:20:31 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: Message-ID: <3750AE7F.C62486F2@wxs.nl> A last thought on this for you legal guys out there! Would'n it be sensible to design some kind of 'declaration of trust' regarding private content of equipment. So that the receivers can be held responsable for any irrisponsable disclosure of private data. And also that the donator has signifies that he has (had) knowledge about the informational content of his donation. In serious cases a Judge may decide who has acted liable. But most of ours would live by such a contact and it may endorse reliable image about the restoration and preservation of classic hardware & software. Sipke de Wal Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish > > any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be > > revealed. > > Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do? > > At the moment there is no problem. All of us here (I hope) are sensible > about deleting personal data. So there is no risk in giving any of us a > machine with such data on it. > > The last thing we need is the public saying "I couldn't be sure that none > of my [love letters/tax returns/medical records] were on that > [Altair/PERQ/DEC 10/etc] so I broke it into little pieces so that nobody > could ever read them" > > -tony From sipke at wxs.nl Sat May 29 22:31:07 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: pdp11/45 References: Message-ID: <3750B0FB.164A6B39@wxs.nl> Use de squeal and boardwsapping (or even an empty backplane) as an indicator of where the problem is. -12V is not used everywhere on the system so you may be able to narrow it down a bit. Sipke de Wal Jacob Ritorto wrote: > > Hello Classiccmp. > I recently acquired a nice, rust-free, mostly-original 11/45 from > an old lisp hacker in Los Altos Hills, CA. He told me that it had been > running the last time he'd powered it up, which was in 1984 IIRC, but > sadly, something has gone awry and it won't run now, though it seems to be > close. Here's a brief summary of its status: > It was originally a five-rack system with each rack containing the > controllers for the housed peripherals. The bus was chained through to > each rack on a BC05 and terminated with an M930. I only took the > processor and the TU-10 racks, so to make troubleshooting easier, I > reduced the system to only the CPU and memory boxes (memory is a 220KB > box from Monolithic Systems that has unibus in and out). The processor > has 12 KW of core as well, so I guess I could cut the bus down a bit more > for the purpose of debugging. > > Mode of failure is such: > I powered up the shortened system and the front panel lights lit > [excitement]. Then I tried to examine some memory locations via the > panel, but when I hit HALT, the RUN light stayed lit. I tried every > combination of switches I thought was appropriate, but the RUN light > wouldn't go off. (Sounds like a simple bus error, really.) Upon > realizing that something was amiss, I decabled all the power connectors > from the logic and tested the voltages, which, surprisingly, were all > about 6%-9% above spec (and I'm not too sure that my VOM is accurate even > though it's analog). I didn't readjust the voltages, but reconnected the > power cables to the logic boards and retested the voltage levels. All > stayed about the same except for the -15VDC. It dropped to about 2V. Same > reading on both -15V regulators, by the way, and they seem to be connected > to different areas of the backplane, but I'm not sure. There seems to be > a high-pitch squeal (that sound of a laboring regulator) coming from > somewhere in the power supply cluster, but there's no smoke or crackling > sounds. I don't remember noticing the squeal with the power cables > disconnected, but that may be a subconscious hope and not a fact. > > So that's my predicament. I don't have much time to mess with > this beautiful old girl, so I hope someone here can increase my repairing > efficiency. > > Help me save this great piece of computing history. In return, > I'll at least give you an account on it if I get it to the point where > it'll run 2.9BSD or V7. I have SMD interfaces and disks, etc and > everything else I need (except a DELQA) to get it hooked up to the net. > > Thank you in advance. > > jake From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Sat May 29 22:52:23 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Looking for...Hayes Chronograph In-Reply-To: <021001beaa31$5ea76260$ac932599@office1> Message-ID: Rich, It has been a good number of years since seeing one of these. I remember trying to find one shortly after they went out of production. Any idea if they are Y2000 complient? George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sat, 29 May 1999, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Hello, all: > > Does anyone remember this Hayes novelty? I saw a pic in an old magazine > and thought what a neat idea -- a serial programmable clock in the same case > as a Hayes Modem. > > If anyone comes across one of these, I'd be interested in it. Also, if > anyone has a manual for this, let me know. In the absence of an actual > clock, maybe I can hack one together with Stamp. > > [ Rich Cini/WUGNET > [ ClubWin!/CW7 > [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > [ Collector of "classic" computers > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ > <---------------------------- reply separator > > > > > From donm at cts.com Sat May 29 22:54:37 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Vintage S-100 cards In-Reply-To: <9905300226.ZM11136@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 30 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On May 29, 16:28, Don Maslin wrote: > > Subject: Vintage S-100 cards ________O/_______ O\ > uPD414 is the equivalent of a 4027 DRAM (4096 x 1bits). What's a 2414? > Did you mean 2114, or 2147? Bit of a slip twixt (thought) cup and (finger) tip. I think 2114 was the reference I intended. - don From bluoval at mindspring.com Sat May 29 23:26:02 1999 From: bluoval at mindspring.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: <3750AE7F.C62486F2@wxs.nl> Message-ID: <3750BDDA.86DB645B@mindspring.com> I wasn't following this thread but here's my opinion. A buy a house and everything it contains. There just happenes to be a treasure map in there leading me to a pot of gold. who owns the gold? ME. Bottom line: Clean house before selling. Unless I buy an old computer from the government, I wouldn't waste any time looking for any information on there. If the gov't left plans/info about a nuclear device in there, I'm sure they wouldn't blame me if I tried to publish it. They'd just raid my house, confiscate all my stuff, throw me in a hole somewhere untill they're satisfied with my answers to their questions, drop me off on some remote desert road and deny it ever happened. If they ever admitted they forgot to delete the drive's contents they'd be the joke of the century. Same with everybody. Sipke de Wal wrote: > A last thought on this for you legal guys out there! Would'n it be > sensible to design some kind of 'declaration of trust' regarding private > content of equipment. So that the receivers can be held responsable for > any irrisponsable disclosure of private data. And also that the donator > has signifies that he has (had) knowledge about the informational > content of his donation. In serious cases a Judge may decide who has > acted liable. But most of ours would live by such a contact and it may > endorse reliable image about the restoration and preservation of classic > hardware & software. > > Sipke de Wal > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish > > > any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be > > > revealed. > > > > Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do? > > > > At the moment there is no problem. All of us here (I hope) are sensible > > about deleting personal data. So there is no risk in giving any of us a > > machine with such data on it. > > > > The last thing we need is the public saying "I couldn't be sure that none > > of my [love letters/tax returns/medical records] were on that > > [Altair/PERQ/DEC 10/etc] so I broke it into little pieces so that nobody > > could ever read them" > > > > -tony From roblwill at usaor.net Sun May 30 02:14:54 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason (the General)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip Message-ID: <01beaa6c$1dce45c0$568ea6d1@the-general> I am a radio collector. I know what you're saying. I have one of these "Modern" radios - it's a Crosley Metro. While it would fool a non - collector, since it looks like the original, a collector would know that the tape deck doesn't belong there :) What should be done, is that a "knobs and switches (and whatever else is needed)" interface that hooks to the "modern" interface, with the chip in it (or just put the chip in the other interface). While not being the original, it'll still give the feel of the original. It'll use a LOT less power, too :) ///--->>> -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 1:48 PM Subject: Re: ENIAC-on-a-Chip > >Maybe you don't see what I'm saying (and I don't know any reason for >insults, either). Let's say you're a radio collector. You want a certain >old radio, which you would never be able to own. Somebody gives you a >modern radio with the same circuit layout but the old components have been >replaced by modern ones. Such a radio could fit on a circuit board 2" >sq. if done with surface mount. It works the same way. Would you take this >radio, and say 'hell, if I want, I can add the old-fashioned knobs later'? >I doubt it. Now, granted, this is the only kind of ENIAC anyone will ever >be able to own, but I'm dubious about how similar the experience would be >to running a real ENIAC. > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power > > From hhacker at home.com Sat May 29 23:52:50 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip Message-ID: <001801beaa58$458a0630$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> Sellam: Comments like this are a bit condecending, lacking a kind disposition to others. Your point is important but, you could give it without so much venom. William R. Buckley If you're so indignant you can always build a "knobs and >switches" interface to settle your neurosis. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From hhacker at home.com Sun May 30 00:00:38 1999 From: hhacker at home.com (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip Message-ID: <002b01beaa59$5c206230$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> The place where you get the results of an ENIAC is, of course, in the programming of this single-chip ENIAC emulator. Now, I too, would like to have the real thing (how many were made?) but, I do not expect my want to be fulfilled. Yet, via this chip, I may still afford myself the pleasure of programming an ENIAC. For the hardware tinkering people on this list, I can understand their dissatisfaction. For those of us who want to experience the software/user side of things, this chip is not so much of a disappointment. William R. Buckley From: Christian Fandt >Amen, Max. The only thing one would probably get out of that 'radio' would >be a work-alike thing. Exactly the same for that ENIAC-on-a-chip. >Work-alike, probably, but no where near the same as having either the real >thing or a functional replica with tubes/relays/other fun parts. > >Regards, Chris, an old radio collector (or rather, collector of old radios :) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun May 30 00:04:44 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: <001801beaa58$458a0630$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 1999, Buck Savage wrote: > Sellam: > > Comments like this are a bit condecending, lacking a kind > disposition to others. Your point is important but, you could > give it without so much venom. > > William R. Buckley God damn, do I have a to add a fucken smiley to everything I say? There's no venom or condescension intended in the comment below. Ok, maybe a little condescension, but holy shit, aren't you all taking this a bit too seriously? The project was not to create a replica of the ENIAC, but to put an ENIAC on the chip. This being said, my comment below applies. > If you're so indignant you can always build a "knobs and > switches" interface to settle your neurosis. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99] From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun May 30 00:05:10 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at May 30, 99 02:08:14 am Message-ID: <199905300505.WAA13165@saul10.u.washington.edu> > There are various systems like this. The most common (in my limited > experience) being a JTAG boundary scan. Basically, some LSI devices have The system Tera uses is quite similar, except that it extends to the interal circuitry of the chip rather than just the boundary (pins) of the chip. -- Derek From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat May 29 21:40:20 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990529214020.213fc5cc@earthlink.net> At 10:37 PM 5/28/99 -0700, Sam wrote: > >Look what those wacky college students are up to now: > >http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html > It uses about 175,000 transistors! Wow, what an increase, just think of a computer with 175,000 triodes, and compare that to an ENIAC (much less, the power required). Or some years later, one with 175,000 discrete transistors. Now that I remember, this was a thread some months ago... top speed, etc. -Dave From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat May 29 21:37:51 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: National SC/MP data In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990529213751.239f022a@earthlink.net> Hi all, Today I bought a SC/MP wirewrapped board. Does anyone know of a site with a data sheet? My search came up with what is known as "SC/MP II", including a description of a "MK14" project in Practical Electronics mag. In particular, the chip on my board requires an unknown neg. voltage on pin 40, instead of +5 Volts on the later NMOS versions. The actual part No. is: ISP-8A/500D Thanks, -Dave From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun May 30 05:30:29 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Comprehensive Commodore History In-Reply-To: <199905292145.OAA04210@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 May 1999, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > I'm trying to come up with as comprehensive a history as possible of the > late, great Commodore Business Machines et subsidiaries etc. I think I've I think what would be a great read would be the chronicalization of Commodore before they got into computers, i.e. when they were an office supply business. Is there any account of this on the internet anywhere? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99] From mark_k at iname.com Sun May 30 07:15:57 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: DEC 80-pin SIMMs??? Message-ID: Hi, Today I bought what I thought were three 4MB 72-pin SIMMs. On closer examination, they have *80* pins, and were made by Digital in 1991. It says 5019144-01 A1P2 on the boards. Some questions: - what system would these have been used in? - how much might they be worth? - does anyone need any 4MB 80-pin SIMMs? -- Mark From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun May 30 09:19:42 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: WTB original manual for Compupro 286 CPU board Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990530091942.457793ac@intellistar.net> The subject line says it all. I want an original manual for the 451C 286 CPU board. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun May 30 09:24:10 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Is anyone interested in military Compupro s-100 computers? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990530092410.41e70574@intellistar.net> I picked up a couple of Compupros that were used in a Titan missile test station. Each one has a Compupro 286 CPU, 64^H^H 128 K S-RAM card, EPROM card, system support card and Interfacer 4 card along with a number of custom cards. The operating system for them is in EPROM. These were used to operate a ultrasonic test machine by remote control. Each test stand had a turntable and gantry that would rotate the missile and run the test head up and down until it inspected the entire missile body. Each test head had four large ultrasonic transducers for detecting flaws in the missile. These computers generated the master timing for the ultra sonic pulses and converted the return signals from analog to digital then fed the data back to another computer for further processing. They could be operated at up to 200 MHz PRF. They also took care of things like controlling the programmable attenuators in the RF receiver. Most of the connectors on them were replaced with "Canon plugs" and an extra power supply added for use by one of the special cards. An extra fan was also added inside. All of the custom cards use gold SMA connectors to connect to each other and to carry the RF signals. The custom cards have some really neat devices on them such as flash A/D converters, very fast S-RAM for buffers, switchable attenuators, a crystal with 10-7 accuaracy, etc. I was going to convert these back to standard Compupro configuration but if anyone is seriously interested in them I will consider interesting trades or $$. PS I have lots of manuals for them too including schematics and theory of operation for the custom cards. From peter at joules.enterprise-plc.com Sun May 30 06:15:19 1999 From: peter at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: <3750AE7F.C62486F2@wxs.nl> <3750BDDA.86DB645B@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005d01beaaa5$fdc42ad0$45c448c2@DROOPY> I think I have mentioned this before, but at work I have been told that I cannot have a disused tape _drive_ decause it has been used to back up payroll data. I realise that this is just the over exagerrated paranoia of ignorant accountants but it still shows that there is a latent problem out there which, if there were a scandal in the press resulting from the disclosure of confidential data, could result in our supply of usable machines drying up. Regards Pete From edick at idcomm.com Sun May 30 09:46:38 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Vintage S-100 cards Message-ID: <001101beaaab$39a50c40$0100c0a8@fuj03> well . . . we all know what those are. This makes a great deal more sense! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 9:55 PM Subject: Re: Vintage S-100 cards >On Sun, 30 May 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >> On May 29, 16:28, Don Maslin wrote: >> > Subject: Vintage S-100 cards > >________O/_______ > O\ > >> uPD414 is the equivalent of a 4027 DRAM (4096 x 1bits). What's a 2414? >> Did you mean 2114, or 2147? > >Bit of a slip twixt (thought) cup and (finger) tip. I think 2114 was the >reference I intended. > > - don > > From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 30 11:23:47 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: Vintage S-100 cards Message-ID: <199905301623.AA08837@world.std.com> <>uPD414 is the equivalent of a 4027 DRAM (4096 x 1bits). What's a 2414? <> Did you mean 2114, or 2147? I was wrking for NEC when that part was current. I have an old catalog and the MK4027 was the one I was trying to remember. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 30 11:24:30 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip Message-ID: <199905301624.AA09183@world.std.com> <> There are various systems like this. The most common (in my limited <> experience) being a JTAG boundary scan. Basically, some LSI devices have < Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990530095424.00944220@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 09:24 30-05-1999, you wrote: >programmable attenuators in the RF receiver. Most of the connectors on them >were replaced with "Canon plugs" and an extra power supply added for use by Joe, if you want to get mating connectors for those units I can do so. Part of my side business is mil-spec connectors. What I would need to match them up is whatever number they've got stamped into the shell and/or insert (pin numbers are not needed). Let me know. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From marvin at rain.org Sun May 30 12:34:21 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Logic Panel - Recomp No.1 References: <3.0.5.32.19990530095424.00944220@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3751769D.99FA46EC@rain.org> While searching around at TRW, I ran across this board encased in Plexiglass. A photo is at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/recomp#1.jpg Anyone have a clue what this thing was? For those who don't want to fire up a browser, the board is about 3" x 5" with a 25 and 37 pin connector at the bottom (pins soldered to the board ala extender boards w/o any plastic guide/holders.) There are a number of diodes soldered to both sides and the board is gold plated. From marvin at rain.org Sun May 30 13:14:53 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Logic Panel - Recomp No.1 References: <3.0.5.32.19990530095424.00944220@mail.bluefeathertech.com> <3751769D.99FA46EC@rain.org> Message-ID: <3751801D.234A756E@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > > While searching around at TRW, I ran across this board encased in > Plexiglass. A photo is at: > > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/recomp#1.jpg Try http://www.rain.org/~marvin/recomp.jpg I tried the other and it didn't work, so I renamed the file. From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Sun May 30 13:44:44 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Comprehensive Commodore History In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at May 30, 99 03:30:29 am Message-ID: <199905301844.LAA19090@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990530/753dbd59/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 11:40:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: National SC/MP data In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990529213751.239f022a@earthlink.net> from "Dave Dameron" at May 29, 99 09:37:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990530/cdb8cd86/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 11:48:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: pdp11/45 In-Reply-To: <3750B0FB.164A6B39@wxs.nl> from "Sipke de Wal" at May 30, 99 05:31:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 728 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990530/ce3ac3f3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 11:59:14 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <3750BDDA.86DB645B@mindspring.com> from "bluoval" at May 30, 99 00:26:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1293 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990530/e1dec229/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun May 30 12:13:01 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip In-Reply-To: <002b01beaa59$5c206230$0c990518@CC275574-A.flrtn1.occa.home.com> from "Buck Savage" at May 29, 99 10:00:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 703 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990530/e43e6fb3/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun May 30 14:58:22 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In MANY cases, the machine is being transferred/donated/given/scrapped/etc BECAUSE the previous owner could no longer get it to work, including to be able to run it enough to delete the old content. In such cases, implicit in the transfer agreement (regardless of whether it is explicitly stated) is the assumption that the recipient takes responsibility for completion of the deletion on behalf of the previous owner. Even in cases of a fully functional machine, ownership of any data that was accidentally left behind remains with the prior owner. Just as if you were to have found personal property that somebody had lost. ANY transfer of a used computer assumes that the recipient will act in good faith in the handling of residual content. Recently the Berkeley Humane Society (whose computers I'm upgrading) received a couple of machines with the hard drives, floppy drives, RAM, and ROM removed! (all due to fear of "hackers" getting at confidential data). Let's not encourage that paranoia. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bluoval at mindspring.com Sun May 30 15:15:59 1999 From: bluoval at mindspring.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: Message-ID: <37519C7F.3857557D@mindspring.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I wasn't following this thread but here's my opinion. > > A buy a house and everything it contains. There just happenes to be a treasure > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > There's the first difference. In most cases you're _not_ buying a computer > and all the data on the hard drive. If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever data it might contain is mine also. The seller is/was responsable for the data on there, not the buyer. the seller should've deleted what he thought was sensitive information. Unless the data is copyrighted, I have every right to do as i please with it, which would most likely be erasure. > > > If I buy a computer and the seller says 'Here's the master disks for all > the software I installed, and here are the licenses which I'll help you > to transfer to your name', then I think it's reasonable to assume that > you're getting that software as well. If he says 'BTW, I've left the > source code to a that I was working on on the hard disk, > please take a look' then, again, I have no problem in reading said source > code. > > THat is _not_ what we're talking about. > > > map in there leading me to a pot of gold. who owns the gold? ME. > > Suppose you buy a house+contents. Stuffed down the back of a chair are > some old personal letters, bank statements, etc. Do you really think you > have the moral right to publish them? I certainly don't. > I wasn't talking about morals. I'd probably find the previous owner and give it to them, if they wanted it. otherwise I'd trash it. I have no use for old letters and bank statements.... > > I must admit that if I bought a computer and found some previous repaired > had left the schematics or a diagnostic module inside, I might be tempted > to keep them and make use of them. That's a far cry from personal data, > though. > There have been many books published from people's personal data... diaries, love letters, ect.. especially items found on/around important dates and events. Letters/ pictures/diaries from the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW, WWII, ect... sketches and drawings for some wacky invention..... all of these things were , at one time by someone, considered personal data. many times we learn from them. Do you think these people would have wanted their data published by some person who just happened to find it in an attic, in a house he just bought? probably not, but historically they're priceless. From Innfogra at aol.com Sun May 30 15:27:19 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: International shipping Vintage S-100 cards Message-ID: <3c00b251.2482f927@aol.com> In a message dated 5/29/99 6:28:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pete@dunnington.u-net.com writes: > Yes, but shipping to the UK would be too expensive :-) Effective May 30th, 1999 the United States Postal Service changed it's "Global Priority Flat Rate Envelope" service to $9 US for up to 4 pounds if it will fit in a USPS 10"X12" Envelope. This size package would take a couple of S100 cards wrapped in anti-stat & bubble wrap. This is a much cheaper international rate that the USPS is starting to promote. Their web site is www,usps.com. The rate calculators work best. The new international rate sheet is in Adobe pdf format and loads slowly (19 pages). The calculators are html but are not updated yet. A 6"X8" envelope is $5, and, I think, up to 4 pounds. I have used the small envelope to ship software to Hong Kong. From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 30 16:11:16 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: National SC/MP data Message-ID: <199905302111.AA17734@world.std.com> <> Today I bought a SC/MP wirewrapped board. Does anyone know of a site with <> data sheet? My search came up with what is known as "SC/MP II", including I do have a massive amount of dat for the sc/mp Pmos part. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun May 30 16:11:30 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: ENIAC-on-a-Chip Message-ID: <199905302111.AA17899@world.std.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990530092410.41e70574@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990530170721.22b7c138@intellistar.net> Bruce, Thanks for the offer. I'm glad to know someone that deals with that kind of stuff. I have some of the mating cables and connectors but unless someone is interested in the system the way it is I was planning on converting it back to the standard connectors but come to think of it the mil-spec ones would be kinda of cool. BTW what is your side business? I was an engineer for Martin Marietta and used to work a lot with those connectors. Joe At 09:54 AM 5/30/99 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:24 30-05-1999, you wrote: > > > >>programmable attenuators in the RF receiver. Most of the connectors on them >>were replaced with "Canon plugs" and an extra power supply added for use by > > > > Joe, if you want to get mating connectors for those units I can do so. >Part of my side business is mil-spec connectors. > > What I would need to match them up is whatever number they've got stamped >into the shell and/or insert (pin numbers are not needed). > > Let me know. Thanks! > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Sun May 30 16:44:02 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Updates to Secret Weapons of Commodore Message-ID: <199905302144.OAA21002@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990530/cc1bcf38/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun May 30 18:17:58 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Let's see. I have enough old 4096s to make a decent R.A.I.D. And 225s, 412s, And a lot of other old drives and diskettes. But many of them were parts of systems on which I worked on source code of a little bit of value. (enough so that there was actually a break-in attempt at theft once! But the casing was so clumsy that all that they got were some diskettes clearly labelled "V2.4 source code self-extracting archive", that actually contained a trojan to wipe hard disk directories.) It would be a hassle to reassemble a machine just to check the drives to make sure that they were all erased properly. So, should I give the ones that I no longer want to somebody who acknowledges intellectual property rights and would HELP if I screwed up and made a mistake; or should I let somebody have them who feels that whatever is on them is now theirs, and would RUN a self-extracting archive? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun May 30 19:41:03 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: National SC/MP data In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) "Re: National SC/MP data" (May 30, 12:24) References: <199905301624.AA09309@world.std.com> Message-ID: <9905310141.ZM11977@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On May 30, 12:24, Allison J Parent wrote: > Subject: Re: National SC/MP data > <40, instead of +5 Volts on the later NMOS versions. The actual part No. is > I have a working example of the inexpensive board national sold with that > chip, 256bytes of ram and a monitor. > > I'd doubt there is a site with a data sheet unless someone got permission > form National Semi to scan one. The Introkit and the MK14 are very similar. The site I mentioned above has part of the SC/MP data sheet, the MK14 circuit diagram and parts lists, and programing information. Now all I need is the SC/MP chip. Related topic: has anyone here come across a small micro called a Scrumpi, based ob the SC/MP? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rcini at email.msn.com Sun May 30 14:00:36 1999 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Looking for...Hayes Chronograph References: Message-ID: <00e701beab05$758fd820$9f6dffd0@office1> George: I thought of the same thing :-) There is also a thread on alt.folklore.computers recently about the AT commands to set it. The "set date" command is as follows: ATSDyymmdd Based on that, it doesn't appear (on the surface at least) that it is Y2K compliant. Again, if anyone comes across the manual or schematic for this, let me know. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <---------------------------- reply separator ----- Original Message ----- From: George Rachor To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 11:52 PM Subject: Re: Looking for...Hayes Chronograph > Rich, > > It has been a good number of years since seeing one of these. I remember > trying to find one shortly after they went out of production. > > Any idea if they are Y2000 complient? > > George > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com > Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > On Sat, 29 May 1999, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > > > Hello, all: > > > > Does anyone remember this Hayes novelty? I saw a pic in an old magazine > > and thought what a neat idea -- a serial programmable clock in the same case > > as a Hayes Modem. > > > > If anyone comes across one of these, I'd be interested in it. Also, if > > anyone has a manual for this, let me know. In the absence of an actual > > clock, maybe I can hack one together with Stamp. > > > > [ Rich Cini/WUGNET > > [ ClubWin!/CW7 > > [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > > [ Collector of "classic" computers > > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ > > <---------------------------- reply separator > > > > > > > > > > > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun May 30 21:44:28 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Is anyone interested in military Compupro s-100 computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990530170721.22b7c138@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990530095424.00944220@mail.bluefeathertech.com> <3.0.1.16.19990530092410.41e70574@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990530194428.009523c0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 17:07 30-05-1999, you wrote: >converting it back to the standard connectors but come to think of it the >mil-spec ones would be kinda of cool. Agreed. Very rugged as well. I plan to use nothing but in an upcoming project that will see our next car (likely a Ford or similar van) equipped with (among other things) an onboard computer for navigation and vehicle systems monitoring. > BTW what is your side business? I was an engineer for Martin Marietta >and used to work a lot with those connectors. Have a look at www.bluefeathertech.com. I offer services such as device programming, media format conversion and data archiving, plotter output, etc. As my interest in radio cotinues to flare again, I expect to (in the future) provide such things as conversion of commercial units to ham frequencies, test, alignment, etc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun May 30 22:29:09 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Logic Panel - Recomp No.1 In-Reply-To: <3751769D.99FA46EC@rain.org> References: <3.0.5.32.19990530095424.00944220@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: >While searching around at TRW, I ran across this board encased in >Plexiglass. A photo is at: Is that a display case, or a functional enclosure? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sun May 30 22:34:01 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 30 May 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Let's see. > I have enough old 4096s to make a decent R.A.I.D. And 225s, 412s, And a > lot of other old drives and diskettes. > > But many of them were parts of systems on which I worked on source code of > a little bit of value. (enough so that there was actually a break-in > attempt at theft once! But the casing was so clumsy that all that they > got were some diskettes clearly labelled "V2.4 source code self-extracting > archive", that actually contained a trojan to wipe hard disk directories.) > > > It would be a hassle to reassemble a machine just to check the drives to > make sure that they were all erased properly. So, should I give the ones > that I no longer want to somebody who acknowledges intellectual property > rights and would HELP if I screwed up and made a mistake; or should I let > somebody have them who feels that whatever is on them is now theirs, and > would RUN a self-extracting archive? Your point is well taken as to whom might be suitable recipients, but in reality, it shouldn't take but 20 minutes to cobble together a motherboard with minimal memory, video, and an MFM HDC to do a low level format on each of them. That would rather eliminate the agonizing. For my part, I'd take the ST-412s and 225s before I'd look at the 4096s, though. - don From marvin at rain.org Sun May 30 23:00:30 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Logic Panel - Recomp No.1 References: <3.0.5.32.19990530095424.00944220@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3752095E.6421EE4@rain.org> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > >While searching around at TRW, I ran across this board encased in > >Plexiglass. A photo is at: > > Is that a display case, or a functional enclosure? It is a display case as I don't see any easy way to open it without breaking the joints, and of course, no way to electrically connect it to anything (at least while it is in the plexiglass enclosure!) From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun May 30 19:49:59 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: National SC/MP data In-Reply-To: <199905302111.AA17734@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990530194959.2b7fbc0a@earthlink.net> Thanks Allison and Tony, At 05:11 PM 5/30/99 -0400, you wrote: ><> Today I bought a SC/MP wirewrapped board. Does anyone know of a site with ><> data sheet? My search came up with what is known as "SC/MP II", including > >I do have a massive amount of dat for the sc/mp Pmos part. > I may have some more questions later, but now know what power supply requirements are required. Now have to find some sign of a (serial) I/O. The Practical Electronics SC/MP project has a exhaustive FAQ: http://users.aol.com/mk14emu/faq.htm#1, including schematics, pin descriptions (for the NMOS part), instructions, etc. -Dave From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun May 30 23:45:58 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Is anyone interested in military Compupro s-100 computers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990530092410.41e70574@intellistar.net> Message-ID: >I picked up a couple of Compupros that were used in a Titan missile test >station. Each one has a Compupro 286 CPU, 64^H^H 128 K S-RAM card, EPROM About 30 minutes south of Tucson AZ there is a complete restored Titan missle complex, and it is a amazing place. Full of vintage 60's tech too. http://world.std.com/~bor/arizona/arizona.htm From manney at hmcltd.net Mon May 31 01:27:22 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: DEC treasure trove available Message-ID: <052101beab2e$f772e520$c97efea9@fujitsu-c350> I have a friend (Yes, Virginia, I have two friends) who's been a DEC repairman for many years. He now wants to get rid of the accumulated a lot of stuff in his barn, and has asked me to help get rid of it. I'm not sure I have the time to make a complete catalogue of all his stuff. Anyway, I know squat about big iron, and therefore don't know what's valuable to people. Please, therefore, email me with your wants -- anything from, "I'll take anything" to "keep an eye out for this widget". I have no idea what he wants for all of this, bit I doubt he's out to gouge. manney@hmcltd.net pgphoto@ragemail.com P Manney "Y1K caused the Dark Ages." Thousands of discounted photo items at http://www.hmcltd.net/pgphoto -----Original Message----- From: Colan Mitchell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:37 PM Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. > >If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my >apologies. > I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on >discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to >be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and >educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of >lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being >weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do >something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it. > Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the >response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K >and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential >problem. > > >Colan > > > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 31 18:04:10 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <37519C7F.3857557D@mindspring.com> References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990531160056.00c68590@mcmanis.com> At 04:15 PM 5/30/99 -0400, bluoval wrote: >If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever data it might contain is mine >also. Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of reasoning, consider the following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold. 1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the DEA. Do you: a) Admit that it is yours because after all you bought the house and to 10 - 15 years in federal prison? b) Exclaim loudly that you didn't know it was there and help them track down the previous owner. If you answered 'a' you get to keep the gold map. --Chuck From bluoval at mindspring.com Mon May 31 18:05:28 1999 From: bluoval at mindspring.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: <4.1.19990531160056.00c68590@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <375315B8.7318B663@mindspring.com> did the house come furnished, or is this my couch? Chuck McManis wrote: > At 04:15 PM 5/30/99 -0400, bluoval wrote: > >If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever data it might contain is mine > >also. > > Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of reasoning, consider the > following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold. > > 1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo > of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the > DEA. Do you: > a) Admit that it is yours because after all you > bought the house and to 10 - 15 years in federal > prison? > b) Exclaim loudly that you didn't know it was there > and help them track down the previous owner. > > If you answered 'a' you get to keep the gold map. > > --Chuck From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon May 31 18:15:57 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990531160056.00c68590@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 04:15 PM 5/30/99 -0400, bluoval wrote: > >If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever data it might contain is mine > >also. > > Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of reasoning, consider the > following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold. > > 1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo > of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the > DEA. Do you: Hmmmm... with fond respect accorded to My Learned Colleague... this tautology seems a bit specious. So I would rather propose the following scenaria: You find a "perfect-10" Magnesium GridCase at a local thriftshop for $5.. you talk them down to $3 and it's yours. Upon firing it up, you find: A) the entire 'black book' of a notorious drug lord... databases, names, addresses, spreadsheets, etc. Among the names are various prominent politicians, celebrities, and others. It is clear they have been.... misbehaving. B) The complete record of a well known high-profile psychiatrist, including some very 'private' info on, again, various Famous Folk. A few of these Folk are in "positions of trust", and the info would tend to utterly disqualify them from those positions. C) The business and research records of a successful competitor of yours... all of the data required to smash them like a slimy bug and take over sole dominance in your market. Ball's in your court. All you *really* wanted was the computer... Cheers John. PS: A minor variation of "B" actually happened to me. As soon as I realized what was on the machine, I phoned the Dr. involved, offering the machine back to him. The situation was resolved when I assured him that I would wipe the HD, which I did while we were on the phone. [It was a Kaypro 10... user area '0' had been DEL'd, but areas 1-16 had been forgotten about] From jfoust at threedee.com Mon May 31 18:12:57 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: DEC treasure trove available In-Reply-To: <052101beab2e$f772e520$c97efea9@fujitsu-c350> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990531181257.010b3390@vpwisfirewall> At 02:27 AM 5/31/99 -0400, PG Manney wrote: >I have a friend (Yes, Virginia, I have two friends) who's been a DEC >repairman for many years. He now wants to get rid of the accumulated a lot >of stuff in his barn, and has asked me to help get rid of it. Obvious first question: Where is this barn? - John From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon May 31 19:34:55 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990531160056.00c68590@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990531173218.04536e90@mcmanis.com> I was just trying to point out that people are much more likely to want to play "finders keepers" when it is a good thing and unwilling to play when it is a bad thing. As in any morality debate (and this is a classic on BTW) you either bend the morals to favor you (unfortunately all too common these days) or you chose a moral rule and stick to it, good fortune and bad. ==Chuck From manney at hmcltd.net Mon May 31 07:51:28 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: DEC treasure trove available Message-ID: <004701beab64$4d8391a0$c97efea9@fujitsu-c350> >At 02:27 AM 5/31/99 -0400, PG Manney wrote: >>I have a friend (Yes, Virginia, I have two friends) who's been a DEC >>repairman for many years. He now wants to get rid of the accumulated a lot >>of stuff in his barn, and has asked me to help get rid of it. > >Obvious first question: Where is this barn? Behind his house. Where else? (couldn't resist that!) In Northern Ohio, about halfway between Cleveland and Toledo. 44846 ZIP. Tiny place called Milan. From manney at hmcltd.net Mon May 31 07:56:12 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: DEC treasure trove available Message-ID: <004c01beab64$f668dfa0$c97efea9@fujitsu-c350> Thank you for the great response. We'll be getting together soon to go over the stuff, and we'll be contacting people directly. You all have done me many favors over the past couple 'a years, and I want to channel at least SOME stuff into the hands of the people who will appreciate it. Please feel free to keep emailing wants. oh, yeah -- I'll consider trades. Photo or modern PC equipment... Ferrarris also considered. P Manney >I have a friend (Yes, Virginia, I have two friends) who's been a DEC >repairman for many years. He now wants to get rid of the accumulated a lot >of stuff in his barn, and has asked me to help get rid of it. > >I'm not sure I have the time to make a complete catalogue of all his stuff. >Anyway, I know squat about big iron, and therefore don't know what's >valuable to people. > >Please, therefore, email me with your wants -- anything from, "I'll take >anything" to "keep an eye out for this widget". I have no idea what he wants >for all of this, bit I doubt he's out to gouge. > >manney@hmcltd.net >pgphoto@ragemail.com > >P Manney >"Y1K caused the Dark Ages." >Thousands of discounted photo items at http://www.hmcltd.net/pgphoto >-----Original Message----- >From: Colan Mitchell >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 4:37 PM >Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. > > >> >>If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my >>apologies. >> I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on >>discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to >>be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and >>educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of >>lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being >>weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do >>something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it. >> Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the >>response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K >>and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential >>problem. >> >> >>Colan >> >> >> >> >> > > From jfoust at threedee.com Mon May 31 20:16:35 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: DEC treasure trove available In-Reply-To: <004701beab64$4d8391a0$c97efea9@fujitsu-c350> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990531201635.013296d0@vpwisfirewall> At 08:51 AM 5/31/99 -0400, PG Manney wrote: >> >>Obvious first question: Where is this barn? > >Behind his house. Where else? (couldn't resist that!) My barn is in front of my house. - John From donm at cts.com Mon May 31 21:46:12 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: DEC treasure trove available In-Reply-To: <004c01beab64$f668dfa0$c97efea9@fujitsu-c350> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 1999, PG Manney wrote: > Thank you for the great response. We'll be getting together soon to go over > the stuff, and we'll be contacting people directly. You all have done me > many favors over the past couple 'a years, and I want to channel at least > SOME stuff into the hands of the people who will appreciate it. > > Please feel free to keep emailing wants. > > oh, yeah -- I'll consider trades. Photo or modern PC equipment... Ferrarris > also considered. Are you trading (or trying to) your identity for Henry Manney who wrote of exotic motorcars and sportscar racing in Europe more years ago than I like to acknowledge? - don > P Manney > ________O/_______ O\ From bluoval at mindspring.com Mon May 31 21:46:22 1999 From: bluoval at mindspring.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: Message-ID: <3753497E.E8BC2C99@mindspring.com> > > Hmmmm... with fond respect accorded to My Learned > Colleague... this tautology seems a bit specious. > > So I would rather propose the following scenaria: > > You find a "perfect-10" Magnesium GridCase at a local thriftshop > for $5.. you talk them down to $3 and it's yours. Upon firing it > up, you find: > > A) the entire 'black book' of a notorious drug lord... databases, > names, addresses, spreadsheets, etc. Among the names are various > prominent politicians, celebrities, and others. It is clear they > have been.... misbehaving. > One call to the DEA with date stamped reciept handy. > > B) The complete record of a well known high-profile psychiatrist, > including some very 'private' info on, again, various Famous Folk. > A few of these Folk are in "positions of trust", and the info would > tend to utterly disqualify them from those positions. > delete. were i a reporter, I'm sure it would be a different outcome. > > C) The business and research records of a successful competitor of > yours... all of the data required to smash them like a slimy bug > and take over sole dominance in your market. > /=^) go through it with a fine tooth comb, report any wrong doings to the proper authorities... -AND/OR- combine his/her knowledge/experience with mine.... try to get better... ok, ok smash him like a bug! > > Ball's in your court. All you *really* wanted was the computer... > in situation C, i really got a bonus! From donm at cts.com Mon May 31 22:23:23 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question Message-ID: I am a little frustrated and sure that I am missing something rather obvious. However, what must I do to assure that VMS (5.5) recognizes my RX33 floppy drive, DUA2, on bootup without having to run SYSGEN and Autoconfigure All each time. The machine tries to boot from it if it has a disk installed and then switches to the RD54 DUA0 to go on to boot. - don From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon May 31 22:44:37 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990531160056.00c68590@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of reasoning, consider the > following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold. > > 1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo > of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the > DEA. Do you: > a) Admit that it is yours because after all you > bought the house and to 10 - 15 years in federal > prison? > b) Exclaim loudly that you didn't know it was there > and help them track down the previous owner. c) You kill your friend (you hate cops anyway) and sell the coke, then move to Maui and live high on the hog for a while. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon May 31 22:48:34 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 1999, John Lawson wrote: > So I would rather propose the following scenaria: > > You find a "perfect-10" Magnesium GridCase at a local thriftshop > for $5.. you talk them down to $3 and it's yours. Upon firing it > up, you find: > > A) the entire 'black book' of a notorious drug lord... databases, > names, addresses, spreadsheets, etc. Among the names are various > prominent politicians, celebrities, and others. It is clear they > have been.... misbehaving. Blackmail the drug lord and force him to give you 50% of his profits for the next 20 years (or until he's gunned down). Move to Maui and live high on the hog for quite some time. > B) The complete record of a well known high-profile psychiatrist, > including some very 'private' info on, again, various Famous Folk. > A few of these Folk are in "positions of trust", and the info would > tend to utterly disqualify them from those positions. Two words come to mind here: "National Enquirer". > C) The business and research records of a successful competitor of > yours... all of the data required to smash them like a slimy bug > and take over sole dominance in your market. I'm rich! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99] From donm at cts.com Mon May 31 23:13:15 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > > I am a little frustrated and sure that I am missing something rather > obvious. However, what must I do to assure that VMS (5.5) recognizes > my RX33 floppy drive, DUA2, on bootup without having to run SYSGEN and > Autoconfigure All each time. The machine tries to boot from it if it has > a disk installed and then switches to the RD54 DUA0 to go on to boot. > I think I just solved my own problem. Running SYSGEN and Autoconfigure followed by AUTOGEN seems to have made VMS 'remember'! That's good news. - don From donm at cts.com Mon May 31 23:42:49 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Micro/Vax/Station 2000 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > On Mon, 31 May 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > > I am a little frustrated and sure that I am missing something rather > > obvious. However, what must I do to assure that VMS (5.5) recognizes > > my RX33 floppy drive, DUA2, on bootup without having to run SYSGEN and > > Autoconfigure All each time. The machine tries to boot from it if it has > > a disk installed and then switches to the RD54 DUA0 to go on to boot. > > > > I think I just solved my own problem. Running SYSGEN and Autoconfigure > followed by AUTOGEN seems to have made VMS 'remember'! That's good news. > I did, but it was not what I thought. Turns out that setting STARTUP_P1 "MIN" appears to be the culprit that makes VMS 'forget'. Using "" instead seems to restore its memory. - don Geez! This is really bad form - commenting on your own message TWICE!!! From black at gco.apana.org.au Sun May 30 19:52:41 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS References: <638d1b4e.247e293b@aol.com> from "BobMcPhail@aol.com" at May 27, 1999 12:51:07 AM <199905270833.EAA15788@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3751DD58.79FB5F7F@gco.apana.org.au> Lawrence Walker wrote: > On 27 May 99 at 0:46, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > > > > > Does anyone know where I can find a working Commodore 64GS system? I've been > > > looking for the last two years with no luck. Please e-mail me if you know > > > where I can purchase one. Thanks, > > > > > > Bob > > > > > A what? um, I can see three possibilities of what you're thinking of. > > > > 1. A commodore 64 > > 2. A commodore 128 > > 3. An Apple2 GS. > > > > to the best of my knowledge there was never a Commodore 64 GS. I'm betting > > you're looking for the 128 model that had the seperate keyboard. > > > > -- > > It was a stripped-down C64 from very early on (also known as the Ultimax), basically a console based on the 64, chiclet keypad..... 'twas a falure, although it is interesting to note that the C64 can be put into Ultimax mode via cartridge insertion, there's a picture of one on my incomplete home page, think the full URL is http://members.xoom.com/llyon/gallery.htm Then follow the link to C64 images. cheers, Lance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990530/b98ee22f/attachment.html From bluoval at mindspring.com Mon May 31 23:19:51 1999 From: bluoval at mindspring.com (bluoval) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. References: Message-ID: <37535F67.A16B83B0@mindspring.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 31 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of reasoning, consider the > > following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold. > > > > 1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo > > of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the > > DEA. Do you: > > a) Admit that it is yours because after all you > > bought the house and to 10 - 15 years in federal > > prison? > > b) Exclaim loudly that you didn't know it was there > > and help them track down the previous owner. > > c) You kill your friend (you hate cops anyway) and sell the coke, then > move to Maui and live high on the hog for a while. > The money you'd get for a kilo of coke won't last too long in Maui. pick a country in South America to stretch the bills. From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Mon May 31 23:29:16 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:44:22 2005 Subject: confidential info on old harddrives. Message-ID: <199906010429.AAA12220@platy.cs.unc.edu> There are two valid and conflicting points here. The first is legal: I (not being a lawyer or anything) believe it is probably legal to take data from any system you legally acquire. The second is pragmatic: if people know that you do this, none of us will ever again get any meaningful parts of a classic machine. The ethics of the matter are another matter, but in view of the pragmatics, that seems moot. Making use of any such data is suicide, at least in the long-term. Even if you are ethically impaired enough to do this, please don't admit it in public. This list, BTW, is archived and publically available at two web sites that I know of, and maybe others that I don't. Cheers, Bill. On Sun, 30 May 1999, bluoval wrote: ] Tony Duell wrote: ] > > ] > > I wasn't following this thread but here's my opinion. ] > > A buy a house and everything it contains. There just happenes to be a treasure ] > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ] > There's the first difference. In most cases you're _not_ buying a computer ] > and all the data on the hard drive. ] ] If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever data it might contain is mine also. ] The seller is/was responsable for the data on there, not the buyer. the seller ] should've deleted what he thought was sensitive information. Unless the data is ] copyrighted, I have every right to do as i please with it, which would most likely ] be erasure. Actually, this point isn't entirely right. Most likely the software on that disk was under license, which couldn't be legally transferred to you even if the seller wanted to. If you really believe you own it, try taking some not-so-terribly-old Micro$oft product from a scrap PC, making copies and reselling them. If you really own it, no big-company lawyers will have a thing to say about it. :-) ] > If I buy a computer and the seller says 'Here's the master disks for all ] > the software I installed, and here are the licenses which I'll help you ] > to transfer to your name', then I think it's reasonable to assume that ] > you're getting that software as well. If he says 'BTW, I've left the ] > source code to a that I was working on on the hard disk, ] > please take a look' then, again, I have no problem in reading said source ] > code. ] > ] > That is _not_ what we're talking about. ] > ] > > map in there leading me to a pot of gold. who owns the gold? ME. Fine. If the seller of the computer agrees to sell you the data as well the machine itself, you own it. But when somebody sells you a house, the contract is not likely to say "house and all pots of gold contained therein", nor is the seller of a computer likely to agree that you own all data he forgot/was unable to delete. Since nobody sane would ever agree to that, you are probably on shakey ground assuming that it was part of the sale. So knowingly using it for profit or to the seller's detriment would probably put you on the losing end of a lawsuit. ] > Suppose you buy a house+contents. Stuffed down the back of a chair are ] > some old personal letters, bank statements, etc. Do you really think you ] > have the moral right to publish them? I certainly don't. ] ] I wasn't talking about morals. I'd probably find the previous owner and give ] it to them, if they wanted it. otherwise I'd trash it. I have no use for old ] letters and bank statements.... ] ] ] > I must admit that if I bought a computer and found some previous repaired ] > had left the schematics or a diagnostic module inside, I might be tempted ] > to keep them and make use of them. That's a far cry from personal data, ] > though. ] ] There have been many books published from people's personal data... diaries, ... ] Do you think these people would have wanted their data published by some person ] who just happened to find it in an attic, in a house he just bought? probably ] not, but historically they're priceless. But to publish that sort of discovery before it has properly aged would put you in the category of tabloid rather than history buff. Still legal, *maybe*, but certainly not likely to inspire future donations.